9-1
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d \ 2
UNITED STATFS DISTRICT COURT
3 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF Fl.ORIDA
MIAMI DIVISION
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10
11
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VOLUMF 9 NOV " -1~9f
l. G. C.H[L£OTI~~
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12 TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL ..0..
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23 Court Reporter: PAUL HAFERLING
301 North Miami Avenue I]., \
24 Miami Florida 33128 C:(~
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25
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Vol. 9-2
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Vol. 9-3
Padreda - Direct -
1 A Sir.
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Vol 9-4
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q How long have YOU been a general contractor?
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2 A Been a general contractor since 1972.
\
3 Q Are YOU presently licensed as a general contractor in
4 the State of Florida?
5 A My license was revoked about two weeks ago, and also it
6 is a hearing pending to reinstitute the license.
7 Q Was your license suspended as a result of your
8 conviction pertaining to the Coso Delago Project?
9 A That's correct.
10 Q That conviction was pursuant to a plea agreement that
11 YOU entered into between yourself and the United States
12 Government?
13 A That's correct.
14 Q We will get to that in a moment. When yOU began as a
15 subcontractor or sub-general contractor, what kinds of
16 buildings did YOU build?
I
17 A Houses and duplex, and any building UP to three story
18 high.
19 Q That was your limitation as to what yOU could build?
20 A That's correct.
21 Q When yoU became a general contractor, what kind of
22 buildings did yOU build?
23 A Anything. Commercial. ShOPPing. Office and apartment
24 units.
t 25 Q Did YOU have occasion, during your work as a general
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Vol. 9-5
Padreda - Direct -
1 contractor, to start doing low income housing or federally
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Vol. 9-6
Padreda - Direct -
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Vol. 9-7
Padreda - Direct -
1 approximately.
2
( 2 Q You heard of the Esperanzo Project?
3 A That's correct.
4 Q Did YOU bid on the Fsperanzo Project?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Who were your partners in that?
7 A Alfredo Sacosa, Alfredo Osorio and Jorge Herdocea.
8 Q The same partners that were involved with YOU in the
9 other projects were involved with YOU in the Esperonza
10 Project?
11 A That's correct.
12 Q You mentioned Mr.Socoso. How do yoU spell his nome?
13 A S-o-c-o-s-o.
14 Q Do yOU remember his first nome?
15 A Alfredo. A-l-f-r-e-d-o.
16 Q Mr. Osorio was the other portner? I
17 A Alfredo Osorio. O-s-o-r-i-o.
18 Q Do yOU have any other partners?
19 A Jorge Herdocea. H-e-r-d-o-c-e-o.
20 Q Was the project in Texas funded from monies from Mr.
21 Herdocea or finance arranged by Mr.Sacoso and Mr. Herdocea?
22 A The owner of the project--the owners of the project that
23 were from Corpus Christi funding the project. We don't have
24 to gO to the bank or anything.
25 Q The profits from that project were paid to YOU and Mr.
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Vol. 9-8
Padreda - Direct -
1 Sacasa here in Florida?
~
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Vol. 9-9
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q Not specific. But what type of people are you referring
2 to when YOU say YOU want to get to know them?
3 A I have been involved with a campaign for the Mayor of
4 Miami, City of Hialeah. city of the county; United States
5 Senator; President.
6 Q You raised funds for these individuals?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q What was the advantage of Camilo Padreda to get involved
9 in that matter of raising funds for these candidates?
10 A I think the major fund raising would like to have the
11 recognition and to have the acknowledge of personal
12 friendship with these persons. The person that can be
13 elected and also help in the friends that yOU think would be
L 14 the better people for the job.
15 Q What advantage was there to yOU, Mr. Padredo. as for as
1.6 being friends with these people that YOU were helping to I
17 elect?
18 A Well, when YOU need to help somebody--you got a friend
19 when yOU can call him, to help your friends.
20 Q What do YOU mean, when YOU need to help somebody?
21 A If YOU got a case, YOU need a friend in a Job and is
22 looking for a job, maybe yOU can call somebody and help him
23 to get a Job.
24 Q When YOU soy call somebody. ore YOU referring to the
25 politicians or public officers YOU help get elected?
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Vol 9-10
Podredo - Direct -
1 A That is one of the people that we can call.
£
( 2 Q How would YOU gO about raising funds for the various
3 candidates that YOU work? How would YOU do that?
4 A Normally yOU do a get together, cocktail party or get in
5 a restaurant or get on the hotel and do a banquet or
6 something like that.
7 Q Would YOU arrange parties like that?
8 A Correct.
9 Q Then what would YOU do? How would yOU collect the
10 money?
11 A We ask for contributions to any particular person.
12 Q Did the various candidates and public officials that yOU
13 were doing this for knnw YOU were doing this organizing?
14 A Yes.
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Vol. 9-11
Padreda - Direct -
1 own campaign.
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Vol. 9-12
Padreda - Direct -
1 A Yes.
ME
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Vol. 9-13
Padreda - Direct -
1 was the president.
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Vol. 9-14
Padreda - Direct -
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Vol. 9-15
Padreda - Direct -
1 A I plead guilty to sign a cost certification, false
( 2 statement and to conspiracy to make false statement.
3 Q What is a cost certification?
4 A Cost certification is the--you have to put all the
S numbers together for whatever degree of cost of the project
6 was.
7 Q Basically YOU plead guilty to lYing on that cost
8 certification?
9 A That's correct.
10 Q You plead guilty to conspiracy with others to lie on
11 that cost certification?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What is the maximum penalty, sir, that YOU were are
14 facing for each of those offenses?
15 A Five years.
16 Q For a total of 10 years?
I
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q Whot other agreement do YOU understand was part of this
19 plea agreement the with the United States?
20 A I have to--l have to fully cooperate with any
21 investigation that I am on, and that I would not be in
22 charge of any other investigation that was in place.
23 Q In other words, you received immunity against other
24 charges for other possible charges arising from
25 investigations undergoing at thot time) in your plea
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Vol. 9-16
Padredo - Direct -
1 agreement?
( 2 A Yes.
3 Q Do YOU remember how many investigations YOU were told
4 were under way at that time?
5 A It was two investigations.
6 Q Which of the two ore we referring to?
7 A Coso Delago.
8 0 Which is the one YOU plead to two counts?
9 A Yes.
10 Q What was the other one?
11 A Porta Del Sol. Another project--100 unit project.
12 Q Porta Del Sol--whot were YOU under investigation for in
13 Porto Del Sol?
14 A Because when I bought Porto Del Sol, I bought the
15 contract in Porta Del Sol. I raised the price from $700,000
16 to $800,000. I
17 Q The affect of which YOU were going to get $80,000, that
18 YOU were, at that time not entitled to?
19 A At the time I signed the contract, I was entitled
20 because I don't have any contract with the developer. At
21 the time I signed the contract, I was acting just as a
22 buyer, as a middleman.
23 Q Mr. Pedredo, you did attempt to conceal the $80,000 in
24 the form of a broker commission] did YOU not?
25 A Yes.
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Vol. 9-17
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q That was Just in case you became 0---
( 2 A A general contractor.
3 Q For that project?
4 A That's correct.
5 Q They would not know YOU hod received some money from the
6 proceeds of the sale?
7 A Yes. By the some token, if I don't issue a general
8 contractor I will receive the money.
9 Q Mr. Padreda, your anticipation of receiving --your
10 anticipation was thot YOU would have a chance of getting the
11 contract to build that property in Porto Del Sol.
12 A Be aware that it was the first time I did work for or do
,- 13
14
some type of deal with these people, out in the audience
that I never know before.
15 You are right when I say I change that nome to the
16 real estate, is because I want to be safe in order to get I
17 the money. And also I want to tell yOU that when I put the
18 70 thousand dollars down payment for that project, if the
19 project was no close, and we don't gO to the closing, or
20 they don't give the contract to me, I can lost the 70
21 thousand dollars, personally.
22 Q You were under investigation for that, were yOU not?
23 A That's correct. Also after I become general contractor,
24 wos, yOU know, on offense.
25 Q You did become general contractor for that offense, did
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Vol. 9-18
Padreda - Direct -
1 YOU not?
( 2 A Yes.
3 Q You did not return that 70 thousand dollars, did you?
4 A No.
5 Q Port of that plea agreement that yoU plead guilty to the
6 two offenses that we talked about in Casa Delago, there was
7 an agreement not to charge yOU with any offenses arrising
8 out of Porta Del Sol?
9 A That's correct.
10 Q Did the United States make any other promises or
11 agreements with yOU in exchange for your plea agreement?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What were they?
14 A That I connot--that the agreement will be void and null
15 if I make any false statement.
16 Q What else? Were YOU given any other type of immunity?
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17 A Could you be more specific?
18 Q Were yOU given immunity for any information that yOU
19 provided the United States Government, pursuant to this plea
20 agreement?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q What was your understanding with respect to that
23 agreement?
24 A That anytime that I have to gO to the Grand Jury or
( 25 answer any Questions that YOU hove, United States Government
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Vol. 9-19
Padreda - Direct -
1 has, I have to truthfully answer the questions and
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Vol. 9-21t
Padreda - Direct -
1 A For two and a half years.
( 2 Q Have YOU agreed to waive all Your rights to that money?
3 A Yes.
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Vol. 9-21
Padreda - Direct -
1 A No.
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Vol. 9-2~
Podreda - Direct -
1 part of a commission or filing fee to one of the
( 2 commissioners.
3 Q Was this involving, I think it is called a Beaegao Armas
4 Trust?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Did I pronounce that correctly?
7 A Beaegao Armas.
8 THE COURT: Spell it, please.
9 A B-e-a-e-g-a-o A-r-m-a-s Trust Two.
10 Q Basically what kind of information did yOU provide,
11 pursuant to questions asked by YOU, by the United States
12 Government, regarding that property?
13 A That one of the Dade County Commissioner's help me to
L 14 sell property.
15 Q Did he do anything else, in addition to helping YOU sell
16 the property?
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17 A When he come to me and provide me with, that he can
18 offer me the sales of the property to one of the buyers;
19 that were we were working with him for a period of time, and
20 this gentleman have not provide the final contract, the
21 commission, through his daughter, who was a real estate
22 salesman. He told me he can help and get that contract.
23 Q He also told YOU he can help YOU in another way, did he
24 not?
25 A He told me he will help me to get people out of the
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Vol. 9-23
Padreda - Direct -
1 trailer park, to go to the---
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Vol. 9-24
Podreda - Direct -
1 fee?
( 2 A That's correct.
3 a The fact is, was the property rezoned?
4 A Yes, it was.
5 Q The fact was, or is, did that county commissioner get
6 it--o finder's fee?
7 A Yes.
8 MR. HOGAN: Let's get the commissioner's name.
9 MR. CHAYKIN: We object. I will be glad to
10 approach sidebar.
11 THE COURT: His request is granted.
12 Q What is the nome of the county commissioner YOU are
13 referring to?
14 A Jorge Valdez.
15 Q How did Mr. Valdez receive the finder's fee from yOU,
16 sir?
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17 A Through different checks. Through different companies.
18 a That was because Mr. Valdez's, I believe YOU said,
19 daughter, was not a registered real estate broker, or real
20 estate salesperson, at that time, or do YOU know?
21 A At the time that it finalized she was not--she did not
22 have a license yet.
23 a Were yOU involved--pursuant to your plea agreement, did
24 yoU also talk about rezoning of another property, located
( 25 west of the Palmetto Fxpressway?
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Vol. 9-25
Padreda - Direct -
1 A Sir, I don't think that was the right answer. The
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Vol. 9-?6
Padreda - Direct -
1 A I talked to Mr. Valdez, too. Yes, sir.
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2 Q Do know of any agreement that was reached between
l YOU
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Vol. 9-27
Padreda - Direct -
1 United States attorney's Questioning YOU about that?
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Vol. 9-28
Padredo - Direct -
1 A $50,000.
( 2 Q Was that money ever turned over to Mr. Perez?
3 A No.
4 Q Why was that?
5 A He never gO to Sergio Pereira.
6 Q As part of your plea agreement, and the information YOU
7 were providing to the United States Government, did yoU also
8 provide information with respect to the Esperanza Project?
9 A Yes.
10 Q What was your understanding--how did yOU first become
11 involved in the Esperanza Project?
12 A During my--during 1982, I was in Texas and I have three
13 portners in Miami dOing nothing, and we were trying to get
14 some work after we finished the last project from HUn in
15 U.S. 1 ond 37 Avenue. And we went to see different cities,
16 and one of the city I visit was the City of Hialeoh was
17 looking to see if they have any job available in the near
18 future.
19 At that time I was informed that one of the
20 projects that they called Esperanza would be advertising for
21 request for proposal.
22 Q Who did yOU speak to?
23 A I speak with the Mayor, Raul Martinez.
24 Q Who was that?
25 A The Mayor.
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Vol. 9-29
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q Do YOU see him in the courtroom. today?
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Vol. 9-30
Podreda - Direct -
1 with Maurice Ferre, helping me, and he was helping also
( 2 Mayor Ferre to be elected to the Dade County Mayor. later
3 on Mayor Martinez helped me to get a project called Heldon
4 Townhouses?
5 Q What year was that?
6 A That have to be in 1971 or 1972. No. Late in 1972, and
7 Mayor Martinez provide me--introduced me to the Mayor of
8 Hialeah, as well as the chairman of the water and sewer} who
9 owned the project.
10 Q What other contact did YOU have with the defendant, Raul
11 Martinez, subsequent to that?
12 A I become friends with Mayor Martinez during quite a few
13 campaigns, and personal friends.
14 Q Did yOU ever raise money for Raul Martinez?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Do yOU recall which election that yOU raised money for,
7 I
17 or which elections yOU raised money?
18 A I remember to raise money for Mayor Martinez in his
19 election for Mayor of Hialeah.
20 Q That is when he was running against Dale Bennett?
21 MR. HOGAN: Objection. Leading.
22 THE COURT: Objection sustained. Don't lead your
23 witness.
24 Q Do yOU recall--who do yOU recall who he was running
25 against for that position?
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Vol. 9-31
Padreda - Direct -
1 A No. I do not remember.
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Vol. 9-32
Padreda - Direct -
1 A No.
c 2 Q Did there come a time that YOU learned that the request
3 for proposal was advertised?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Do YOU recall how YOU learned that?
6 A Through the newspaper. I was informed by one of my
7 partners.
8 Q Do yOU recall which partner inform YOU have that?
9 A Mr. Sacasa, I think at that time. At that time I was in
10 Texas, and Mr. Sacosa called me and told me
11 MR. HOGAN: Objection. Hearsay.
12 THE COURT: Sustained.
13 Q Based on what Mr. Sacasa told YOU about the proposal,
14 did YOU do anything?
15 A I aSKed them to pick it UP the plans and the specs.
16 Q And do yOU know if they did that?
I
17 A Yes, they did.
18 Q Let me show YOU what has already been admitted into
19 evidence Government's exhibit 107.1, and ask yOU if yOU
20 recognize the writing on that?
21 A That was Mr. Alfredo Osorio?
22 Q That is---
23 MR. HOGAN: Can I see that?
24 Q Do YOU recognize his signature?
( 25 A Yes, that is Alfred Osorio's Signature.
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Vol. 9-33
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q That is the same Osorio-- Alfredo Osorio who was your
( 2 partner?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Does that indicate he picKed UP a request for proposal
5 from the housing authority?
6 A Yes.
7 MR. CHAYKIN: May I publish this for the jury.
8 THE COURT: Yes.
9 Q Did YOU, shortly after the receipt doted August 3D,
10 1982, cause a letter to be written to the housing authority,
11 expressing your interest in the project?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Let me show YOU what has been marked as Government's
14 Exhibit 116.2 for identification, and ask if YOU---
15 Mr. Pedreda, after your office received the request for
16 proposal from the Hialeah Housing Authority, did yOU hove
I
17 any further contact with Raul Martinez, or anybody else from
18 his office?
19 A Yes, sir, I have.
20 Q Please tell the ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what
21 the next contact was with City Hall?
22 MR. HOGAN: What did we do with 116.1?
23 MR. CHAYKIN: We are changing the number.
24 THE COURT: Are YOU offering 116.1?
25 MR. CHAYKIN: I don't know about 116.1. I changed
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Vol. 9-34
Padreda - Direct -
1 what I referred to.
( 2 THE COURT: It is in the record.
3 MR. CHAYKIN: 116.2 is in the record, not the
4 document listed on the exhibit list. We now change what I
5 referred to 116.2 incorrectly with Mr. Pedreda to exhibit
6 129 presently for identification. It has not been offered
7 at this time.
8 THE COURT: Thank yOU.
9 THE COURT: Are YOU offering 129?
10 Q Mr. Pedreda, I ask YOU to look at Government's Exhibit
11 129 for identification, and ask YOU if YOU recognize thot
12 letter.
13 A Yes, sir. It is my letter.
14 Q Does that appear to be your Signature?
15 A Ye s l i t wa s .
16 MR. CHAYKIN: We would offer 129 in evidence. I
17 MR. HOGAN: I have no objection.
18 THE COURT: Received.
19 (GOVERNMENT'S EXHIBIT 129 RECEIVED)
20 Q What is that letter?
21 A This is the letter to the Hialeah Housing Authority,
22 attention to Mr. Morganti, requesting some information about
23 a sub-cost and clarifications.
24 Q Did YOU draft that letter?
25 A No, sir.
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Vol. 9-35
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q Who drafted that letter for you?
2 A Mr. Osorio?
3 Q What did Mr. Osorio--what was his function 1n your
4 partnership agreement?
5 A Mr. Osorio was a portner in charge of the whole project,
6 like a project manager. like a project developer.
7 Q What was his responsibility as project manager?
8 A Mr. Osorio was responsible for the plans and specs and
9 the price out the project.
10 Q Who was the one responsible for puting the
11 proposals--your proposals together?
12 A Mr. Osorio.
13 Q So, he was the one who prepared that letter?
(- 14 A Yes.
15 Q You signed that letter?
16 A Yes.
I
17 Q Do YOU know where YOU were at the time YOU signed that
18 letter?
8
19 A I am pretty sure I was in Texas when they sent it over
20 mail, express mail to me to be signed, and sent it back to
21 them right away.
22 Q Why were you in Texas?
23 A At the beginning of the month, during the payments of
24 the projects in Texos, I used to be in Texas the lost week
25 and first week of the month in order to pay the invoices and
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Vol. 9-36
Padreda - Direct -
1 pay the sub-contractors, and do a request for poyment, a
( 2 draw with the bank inspection with the bank. And that
3 inspection took place the lost week of the month.
4 Q You would fly when your business was there?
5 A I used to be here 15 days and 15 days in Texas, more or
6 less.
7 Q You traveled bacK an forth, as port of your business?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Did there come a time, after your first meeting with
10 Raul Martinez in the summer of '82, that yOU met again with
11 someone at City Hall?
12 A I was called by Mr. Castano.
13 Q Do yOU recall approximately when YOU were called by Mr.
14 Castano?
15 A Had to be the around the 8th to the 10th to the 12th of
16 September.
I
17 Q Do YOU know Mr. Castano first name? Do YOU recall his
18 first nome?
19 A Give me a moment. Julio Castano.
20 Q Did YOU know who Julio Castano was?
21 A Julio Castano was an assistant to the City Hall,
22 assistant to the Mayor, assistant administrator, assistant;
23 something like that.
24 Q Hod YOU met him before?
( 25 A Yes, at the City of Miami.
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Vol. 9-37
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q At the City of Miami?
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Vol. 9-38
Padreda - Direct -
1 was trying to help me into put it together this project;
( 2 that he would do his best to help me in this project.
3 Q What else did he soy to you?
4 A During the meeting also, he asked me for, that he is
5 looking to buy, or change or trade his car, and he was
6 looking to buy a Mercedes. And he asked me to help him to
7 get financing for the $20.000 that he need for the cor.
8 Q How did he ask yOU to get financing? What did he wont?
9 A He wonted to get financing to the cor.
10 Q Why was he talking to YOU about it?
11 A I have no ideo. But I think he was looking for me to
12 help him to finance the cor.
13 Q When yOU SOy finance, was he looking for YOU to finance
14 it for him?
15 A I believe he was asking me to--specificolly, he was
16 asking me help him in finance the cor,
I
17 Q What did YOU take that to mean, Mr. Pedreda?
18 A That he was looking for some type of help from my own
19 money.
20 Q From your pocket?
21 A That's correct.
22 Q Did you--was there any connection in your mind between
23 the Esperanza Project, and his request for money?
24 A He was talking about Esperanza before he was asking for
25 the car.
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Vol. 9-39
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q When did this meeting occur?
( 2 A At his office.
3 Q When approximately?
4 A It would have to be after the first week of September.
5 Maybe the 8th, the 10th, the 9th. something like that.
6 Q Middle of September?
7 A Yes. I would say so.
8 MR. HOGAN: Objection. If he is going to lead
9 him, then write the date on the board. I object to that.
10 THE COURT: Overruled. Go ahead. But don't lead.
11 The objection to leaoing is sustained.
12 MR. CHAYKIN: I am putting September 8th and 9th
13 and lOth which is what he mentioned.
L 14 Q What did yOU do, as a result of that conversation, Mr.
15 Pedredo?
16 A As a result of that conversation, I went to the Mayor I
17 office, and I requested the Mayor's secretary that I need to
18 talk to the Mayor.
19 Q Why did YOU do that?
20 A Because I was mod with Castano.
21 Q Why were yoU mad at Castano?
22 A The way he aSKing for financing of his car.
23 Q Did YOU see the Mayor at that time?
24 A Yes. He came out from--he came out for a minute.
25 Q Did YOU talk to him at that time?
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Vol. 9-40
Padreda - Direct -
1 A I talked to the Mayor at that time and told him what
( 2 Castano just told me. The Mayor told me that that was his
3 problem, that is UP to him. He knows what he is doing. And
4 after that dote, Castano never talked to me again about
5 that.
9
6 Q Was that meeting with Raul Martinez, that yoU just
7 described?
8 A The some day at five minutes, 10 minutes after I talked
9 to Mr. (astano.
10 Q How did Raul Martinez react---whot was his---
11 A He told me that his problem. He know what he is doing.
12 That his problem, and ofter that day, I never hear again
13 from Mr. Castano.
14 Q Did YOU have any other meetings with Raul Martinez,
15 after this meeting?
16 A I believe, before we present the bid, we went to see I
17 Mr.--I went to see Mayor Martinez, requesting if the land
18 was included or will hove to be included on the bid. The
19 Mayor have no answer of that.
20 Q Let me stop YOU for a second.
21 MR. HOGAN: I object to stopping him.
22 MR. CHAYKIN: I was trying to get a date.
23 THE COURT: Go ahead.
24 Q Do yOU know approximately how long after this meeting
25 with Julio Castano and Mayor Raul Martinez was?
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Vol. 9-41
Padreda - Direct -
1 A It have to be about a week~ more or less.
( 2 Q Where did this meeting take place?
3 A At the Mayor's office.
4 Q Did YOU call ahead of time for on appointment?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Did YOU receive on apPointment?
7 A Yes.
8 Q When you entered the Mayor's office~ was there anybody
9 else present?
10 A No.
11 Q What took place at that meeting with Raul Martinez?
12 A His office?
13 Q Yes. On this meeting right here.
14 A His office.
15 Q What took place--what was said by yoU, and what was said
16 by Raul Martinez?
I
17 A What I say? I was asking him about whot if the land
18 have to be included or not, that we have a Question about
19 the land. He don't have the answer ot that time.
20 Q What was the issue that YOU had land included in what?
21 A On the bid.
22 Q As part of your project?
23 A On the port of the cost for the bid.
24 Q What was his response?
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~ 25 A That he have to check out. He have no ideo at that
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Vol. 9-47.
Padreda - Direct -
1 time.
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Vol, 9-43
Padreda - Direct -
1 A At that time we don't discuss anything about how it
( 2 going to be paid.
3 Q Was there any discussion about when it would be paid?
4 A No at that time.
5 Q Was there a time it was discussed, when it would be
6 poid?
7 A I went to see my partners, When my--when I finally
8 talked to them --
9 Q When did YOU see your partners?
10 A That Sunday,
11 Q What did YOU tell your partners?
12 MR. HOGAN: Could I find out who was present?
13 Q Do yOU recall who YOU spoke to at this meeting?
L 14 A Alfredo Sacoso and I believe Alfredo Osorio was present.
15 Q What did YOU tell them?
16 A That I received 0 request for $150,000.
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17 Q From whom?
18 A From the Mayor of Hialeah.
19 Q Did YOU discuss on how YOU would pay it with your
20 partner?
21 A At that time, my partner said we don't have the $150,000
22 in the banks or anything.
23 Q Who said that?
24 MR. HOGAN: He has 3 partners.
25 Q Who said that?
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Vol. 9-44
Padreda - Direct -
1 THE COURT: Go ahead.
( 2 A. Mr. Socosa.
3 Q If YOU did not have the money, how would YOU be able to
4 pay it?
5 A It have to be from the profit of the project.
6 Q How was that gOing to be done?
7 A You got a profit on the project. You can draw every
8 month from the profit of the project. A percent equal to a
9 percentage of finish in the project.
10 Q What do YOU mean by that? Explain to the jury how yOU
11 get paid on a project, such as this one.
12 A Any project that the Government has, or any other
13 project that YOU draw every month at a percentage of
14 completion of the job, ot the time that YOU present a
15 percent of completion signed by the architect or engineer,
16 you establish how much work YOU have done. Based on that,
I
17 yOU also can have equal "XU percent for overhead and profit
18 that YOU don't have to present any invoices or anything.
19 Q It's computed into the numbers already?
20 A That's correct.
21 Q And then what happens to that money when you receive it
22 from the draw?
23 A In any other project, we receive it, and we put it in
24 our account, and the rest we pay the sub-contractors.
( 25 Q Was there another way YOU can obtain money from the draw
I
Vol. 9-45
Padreda - Direct -
10 1 to payout to Raul Martinez, or anybody else that YOU wonted
( 2 to pay money from?
3 MR. HOGAN: Objection. Speculative.
4 THE COURT: Overruled.
5 Q How would YOU show justification for the check coming
6 out of your firm, to what, whom to whomever? How could yOU
7 justify?
8 A First of all, I don't have to show anything to request
9 the money. I have to show a percent of the work, of the
10 subcontractors. I have to present a release of lien, and
11 the amount of invoice for the sub-contractors, for profit
12 and overhead, yOU don't have to present any release or any
13 amount of account invoice.
14 When YOU receive the money, yOU are receiving the money
15 to your account. Then YOU reimburse or YOU pay the invoice
16 to the subcontractors, and the rest which is of the profit, I
17 YOU keep in your account.
18 Q After discussion with Mr. Socoso, did YOU then have any
19 other conversations with Raul Martinez?
20 A I went to his house at the day after, and told that my
21 partner agreed to the $150,000.
22 Q Where did yOU gO when YOU advised them of that?
23 A I went to the Mayor ~artinez house.
24 Q Had yOU been there before?
25 A I don't recall being there before.
I
Vol. 9-46
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q Did YOU know who Has present at that time?
( 2 A It was people working in the house. I don't know the
3 nome. I sow one, who was Mr. Cardona, was there.
4 Q Did YOU know Mr. Cardona?
5 A I know Mr. Cardona from way before.
6 Q What was being done on the house?
7 A It was remodeling inside the house.
8 Q What was Mr. (ardona--what did it appear that Mr.
9 Cardona was doing?
10 A It appeared he was in charge of the remodeling inside
11 the house.
12 Q When YOU spoke to Raul Martinez about saying your
13 partners agreed, when was that in relationship to the---
(- 14 A The day after.
15 Q What was his response at that time?
16 A I don't think he gave me any response at that time.
17 Q Was there any discussion with him as to how yOU would
18 pay him?
19 A I tell yOU we talking about it. I said that we can pay
20 as the job progressing.
21 Q Was that acceptable to Raul Martinez?
22 A I believe it was.
23 Q How would YOU pay him during the course of the
24 construction?
( 25 A With a check.
Vol. 9-47
Podreda - Direct -
1 Q From what fund?
( 2 A From my company.
3 Q Were YOU going to make it out to Raul Martinez?
4 A We never discussed that, sir.
5 Q Do yOU think that is the way yOU would do it?
6 MR. HOGAN: Objection.
7 THE COURT: Objection sustained.
8 Q By the way. how much profit were YOU anticipating making
9 on the Esperanza project?
10 A I don't have the numbers, or I was not the one who put
11 the numbers together. but according to what I hear or what I
12 know about from Alfredo Osorio, it was over ~500,OOO.
I
Vol. 9-48
Padredo - Direct -
1 A It could be anYwhere from three to five percent.
( 2 Q That would be of what number, three percent or five
3 percent of what number?
4 A Of the total amount, the bid.
5 Q If the bid was $5,000,000---
6 A Sir.
7 Q If the bid was $5,00Q/000~ how much would that
8 contingency be?
9 A Anywhere from $150 to $300,000.
10 Q Was that in addition, or included in the profit?
11 A That was included on the volume of the bid.
12 Q That is--what I am trying to Soy, that is included as
13 expense, before YOU get to your profit?
14 A That's correct. As a contingencY, it is not including
15 the expense, as a contingencies.
16 Q After that discussion, was a proposal prepared by Camilo
17 Padreda, General Contractor, Inc?
18 A It was prepared by the Corporation called Camilo
19 Padreda, General Contractor, Inc.
20 a Did yOU recall, or do YOU recall having any
21 conversations with Alfredo Osorio with respect to that
22 proposal?
23 A I have Quite a few conversations, YOU know, on the
24 proposal.
25 Q Subsequent to that proposal being filed, which it has
I
Vol. 9-49
Padreda - Direct -
1 been established as September 30, 1982, did yoU continue to
I
Vol. 9-50
Padreda - Direct -
1 about this, I have to know who he talks to to be able to
( 2 object.
3 THE COURT: He is doing a pretty fair job,
4 counsel. He is asking him to improve on it and identify at
5 all times.
6 MR. CHAYKIN: I am always trying to learn.
7 THE COURT: My thoughts were about the names of
8 the County commissioners.
9 MR. CHAYKIN: I wont to explain the Government's
10 reason. It was because there a pending investigation; at
11 the same time, Mr. Valdez is not in Court able to defend
12 himself.
13 THE COURT: That is one of the tough ones. That's
L 14 the way yOU present it.
15 MR. HOGAN: 801.2D.
16 MR. CHAYKIN: That 1s the basis for admission.
I
17 MR. HOGAN: Subject to connection.
18 THE COURT: All right.
19 (SIDEBAR CONCLUDES)
20 Q With respect to this telephone conversation that yOU had
21 with Mr. Alfredo Osorio, can YOU tell us approximately when,
22 in relationship to the filing of the proposal, yOU had this
23 conversation?
24 A Will yOU repeat that question, please.
25 Q It has been established that the proposol--all the
I
Vol. 9-51
PadrAda - Direct -
1 proposals were submitted to the Hialeah Housing Authority on
I
Vol. 9-52
Podreda - Direct -
1 A When he come back to Miami l
yes.
( 2 Q Who was it that YOU learned was visiting or coming to
3 your office?
4 A According to Alfredo Osorio told me it was a man called
5 Cardona.
6 Q Do yOU recall his first nome?
7 A Antonio Cardona.
8 Q Did Mr. Osorio tell yOU what Antonio Cardona was doing
9 going to your office?
10 A Requesting to change the plan l because the plan was not
11 acceptable--at the roof of the --the pitch of the roof was
12 not acceptable.
13 Q Was Mr. Osorio--what was Mr. Osorio asking to yOU do?
14 MR. HOGAN: I objection. Leading. Asking for
15 conclusions. I ask for the conversat ions.
16 THE COURT: nverruled gO ahead.
I
17 Q What was Mr. Osorio asking to YOU do when he was
18 relaying this information to you?
19 A Mr. Osorio informed me that he went to the architect and
20 changed the pIon.
21 Q Did YOU ever have to speak to the architect?
22 A No, sir.
23 Q Who was the architect?
24 A David Perez, from Guterrez, Perez and Fallicker.
( 25 Q Mr. Padreda l did yOU know whether or not it was
I
Vol. g-53
Padreda - Direct -
1 permitted to change the plans after the filing of the
..
,- 13
14
A Many times yOU send plans and have been changed bock and
forth and also changes after construction stort.
15 Q Why did yOU believe Mr. Cardona was providing YOU with
16 this assistance? I
17 A I believe they wanted--first of all there was a mistake.
18 It was an honest mistake on the plan.
19 Q Why did Mr. Cordono-- why did yOU believe Mr. Cardona
20 was helping you?
21 A I think it is better to ask Mr. Cardona why he help me.
22 He have to have somebody asking him to help me.
23 Q Who do YOU think asked him to help you?
24 MR. HOGAN: Objection.
25 A The housing---
I
Vol. 9-54
Podreda - Direct -
1 MR. HOGAN: Excuse me. I object. Speculative who
2 he thinks helped him.
3 THE COURT: Objection sustained.
4 Q Do YOU know why YOU were getting this help, Mr. PaQreda?
5 A Why?
6 Q Yes.
7 A Ask the Question agoin~ please.
8 Q Do YOU know why, sir, yOU were getting this help from
9 Mr. Cor dono?
10 A I received 0 coll--my office received 0 visit from Mr.
11 Cardona with a set of plans to change the set of plans. To
12 change, I believe, one or two page on the roof plans.
13 Q Did YOU know about any changes in plans in the actual
L 14 site solution?
15 A I notice the change of the roof after I come to Miami.
16 Q How about the site solution?
17 A I never, never, recalled chonge on thot.
18 Q My question to you earlier was---
19 A You soy site plan change.
20 Q Yes.
21 A No. I no remember a change in the site plan.
22 Q Why, sir, were YOU getting this assistance from Antonio
23 Cardona?
24 MR. HOGAN: He is still aSKing him to moke on
( 25 inference upon inference. I object.
Vol. 9-55
Padreda - Direct -
1 THE COURT: Overruled. If he can answer it.
I
Vol. 9-56
Padreda - Direct -
1 THE COURT: I will rule on the objection when it
( 2 arrives.
3 MR. HOGAN: I object to that one.
4 THE COURT: That was his understanding.
5 Overruled.
6 (SIDEBAR CONCLUDFD)
7 BY MR. CHAYKIN:
8 Q Mr. Padreda, when YOU do a H.U.D. project, how is it
9 paid out during construction?
10 A You have a dote, to the 25 of the month, and present a
11 request for payment. And we do receive the money. 10
12 percent of the money will be hold as a retainer to the
13 project, or every draw.
14 Q How much is left over at the end for yOU, for YOU to
15 obtain from H.U.D. at the end of a project?
16 A 10 percent of the whole amount of the project.
I
17 Q If the construction cost in the project was 3,500,000,
18 how much would be leftover at the end to obtain from H.U.D.?
19 A $350,000.
20 Q Would that have been the case in the Fsperanza Project?
21 A If it is funded by Federal Government, it is mandatory.
22 When yOU have 95 percent completion, yoU can request five
23 percent of that retainer, which means 50 percent of the
24 retainer, that equal to five percent.
25 When yOU got 95 percent or more finish, then the
I
Vol. 9-57
Padreda - Direct -
1 architect have to sign a paper called substantial
I
Vol. 9-58
Padreda - Direct -
1 the person who supersedes the inspectors and the housing
( 2 authority.
3 Q How did YOU understand or believe he could affect---
4 A I don't have any idea at that time l
because we plan to
5 pay that money.
6 Q Why did YOU agree to pay that money?
7 A Because my partners and II we agreed that we need the
8 project l and in order to get the project. we have to agree
9 to that.
10 Q What was your understonding if YOU did not agree to POY
I
Vol. 9-59
Padreda - Direct -
1 A In my what?
( 2 Q In your life?
3 A Yes.
4 Q What was that?
5 A I was indicted in Texas on November ?.
6 Q What were yOU indicted for?
7 A I was indicted for, in Texas, for the project that was
8 built in Texas with the bankl the Jefferson Savings Bank.
9 Q What became of that indictment? When were yOU indicted?
10 A November 2, 1982.
11 Q Do YOU recall, in relationship to that date, and
12 September 30, 1982, when the proposal was submitted, YOU hod
13 the conversations with Osorio that yOU just testified about?
L 14 A Yes l sir.
15 Q When was that?
16 A In the middle of September -- October.
I
17 Q What happened to thot indictment?
18 A That indictment was dismissed. I was dismissed from the
19 indictment, and we requested a trial to expunge my record.
20 The Judge expunged my record. And the order of the Judge
21 says I can lawfully deny that I have been indicted.
22 Q But, YOU were indicted?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Do YOU recall when that order of expungement was
( 25 entered?
I
Vol. 9-60
Podreda - Direct -
1 A I don't have any ideo. but it was six, eight months in
( 2 1983. I believe it was.
3 Q Before that order of expungement. was the indictment
4 dismissed?
5 A Yes.
6 a Was that pursuant to any--why was the indictment
7 dismiss?
8 A Because I was not--l was not guilty of anything.
9 a Did yOU enter into any type of an agreement with the
10 United States Government, to get that indictment dismissed?
11 A I was engaged in an agreement with the Federal
12 Government to hove--I don't recall exactly what they call
13 it.
14 a Did yOU ever hear of a term coIled, pre-trial diversion?
15 A Pre-trial diversion. that is correct.
16 Q What was your understanding of that ogreement? I
17 A I don't have to accept that I was guilty of anything.
18 That if the period of time I don't recall if it was one year
19 or 8 months or something, that I have to report every month
20 to the Texas United States Attorney office.
21 Q Did yOU do that?
22 A Yes, sir. Not for a year. For when they have all the
23 facts, they dismiss this order and I don't have to report
24 anymore ofter I believe five. six months.
25 Q let me show yOU Government's Exhibit 81 for
I
Vol. 9-61
Padreda - Direct -
1 identification, and ask YOU if YOU recognize that.
I
Vol. 9-62
Podreda - Direct -
I
Vol. 9-63
Padredo - Direct -
1 Q Were YOU suffering from what yoU hod--for what YOU had
( 2 the operation for? Were YOU suffering on December 13?
3 A Yes. Four Years--for four years.
4 Q What do YOU recall. sir, occurred on the evening of
5 December 13?
6 A That Mr. Osorio come to my house with the architect, and
7 maybe another person, which I don't recall who it was.
8 That he told me that he withdrew--he personally withdrew
1.4
9 from the bid, before the bid was opened.
10 Q Did YOU know why, or did he tell yoU why he withdrew
11 from the bid?
12 A He told me that David Perez received--have a
13 conversation with one of the other bidders for another
L 14 company, and another company told Mr. Perez that the FBI was
15 there in investigating the event.
16 Q Did he tell YOU--- What did he tell YOU what the other
I
17 bidder told him they were investigating?
18 A They were there investigating, or was there--they were
19 there looking for whatever happened.
20 Q What was your understanding that the FBI, if the FBI was
21 there, what they were investigating?
22 A They investigating the procedure of the bid.
23 Q How long did that meeting toke place--how long did it
24 last--that meeting?
25 A In my house?
I
Vol. 9-64
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q Yes.
I
Vol. 9-65
Padreda - Direct -
1 A I don't have any idea. It would have to be after 8:00
( 2 or 8:30.
I
Vol. 9-66
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q Do YOU recall approximately what time that meeting was?
( 2 A It was at night. I cannot say. I would say between 7:00
3 and 9:00 1 something like that.
4 Q What did YOU tell Raul Martinez at that meeting at his
5 house?
6 A What Osorio told me at my house.
7 Q Which is what?
8 A That the David Perez have a conversation with one of the
9 Emmer person or representative, and the Emmer told David
10 Perez that the FBI was there investigating the procedure,
11 the bidding, because they were aware of the--they were
12 suspicious or they have some information that money was
13 offered or was requesting in this project.
14 Q What was Raul--who was present? Who was present at that
15 time?
16 A ~r. Cardona and another person, which I don't recoIl the I
17 nome. It was somebody else there.
18 MR. HOGAN: Could we have the sex of the other
19 person?
20 THE COURT: We will allow you. Go ahead.
21 Q Were YOU expecting anybody else to be there when YOU
I
Vol. 9-67
Padreda - Direct -
1 of people there. No. I have no idea.
2 Q Had yoU called ahead of time?
3 A I don't think I called. To the best of my recollection.
4 I went direct to his house.
5 Q What did Raul Martinez say to YOU after YOU told him
6 this?
7 A According to what he knows, my project was the best
8 project, at the best price, and I have the vote. But the
9 project was the best project.
10 Q Why did he tell YOU that?
11 A Because he believed that was a good project, I believe.
12 Q Did he indicate to YOU whether or not YOU should have
13 withdrawn the proposal?
{,-
14 A Will YOU repeat thot.
15 Q Did he indicate to YOU whether or not YOU should have
16 withdrawn the proposal? I
17 A I believe thot he soid} YOU don't have to withdraw. You
18 have the vote. You have the best project.
19 Q This was--were YOU aware of the fact your indictment was
20 in the newspaper?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q You knew that it come out in the newspaper?
23 A My indictment?
24 Q Yes.
25 A Yes.
I
Vol. 9-68
Padreda - Direct -
1 Q Was that before or after?
15
( 2 A November 3rd, it was in the newspaper. November 3rd was
3 the newspaper in Texas] and November four was the newspaper
4 in Miami.
5 Q Did something occurr in this meeting r sir, December 13
6 or 14 that YOU don't recall whether it was the same day of
7 the meeting?
8 A I don't recall if it was the some day, or day after.
9 Q Something happened at that meeting at Raul Martinez's
10 house thot--yoU recall that meeting?
11 A Something happened? It was no other discussion. We I
I
Vol. 9-69
Padreda - Direct -
1 A December fifteen.
I
Vol. 9-70
Padreda - Direct -
1 which Antonio Cardona was there on December 13 or 14th?
( 2 A Yes. I remember Cardona.
3 Q Do YOU remember what, if anything, Raul Martinez stated
4 to Antonio Cardona?
5 A If he SOy something to Cardona? No. I don't remember.
6 Q Did YOU have occasion to thank Antonio Cardona for his
7 assistance?
8 A Please repeat that.
9 MR. HOGAN: Objection.
10 THE COURT: Sustained.
11 Q By the way, Mr. Padreda" have you--when was the lost
12 time YOU have seen Antonio Cardona?
13 A I don't recall, but it have to be seven or eight years.
14 Q Did yoU ever have occosioo---
15 A I don't thinK I see Mr. Cardona maybe 1984/ 1983, '84.
16 Q What about Mr. Osorio?
I
17 A Mr. Osorio and I, we went, about a year and a half ogo
18 to Pompano Beach to see a project, about a year and a half
19 ago. Maybe two Years.
20 Q At that time, did YOU have any idea you were under
21 investigation, with respect to the crimes YOU plead guilty
22 to?
23 A No.
24 Q When was the last time yOU saw Mr. Cardoso?
25 A Mr. Cardosa? The some day we went--the 3 of us went
I
Vol. 9-71
Padredo - Direct -
1 together in my cor to Pompono.
I
Vol. 9-72
Padreda - Cross -
1 that?
( 2 A Sir, again.
3 Q Can YOU see this chart from there?
4 A Yes, I see the chart.
5 Q You can see the dotes?
6 A Yes.
7 Q My name is JOY Hogan. I represent Mr. Martinez. Next
8 to me is EvelYn Greer. You have not talked to anybody in my
9 office about this case, have you?
10 A No, sir.
11 Q We requested, through your attorney's, to speak to yoU,
12 prior to coming to Court, do yOU recall that?
13 A No.
L 14 Q Your attorney's did not tell YOU we asked to speok to
15 you?
1& A My attorney, Mr. Sam Rabin. Yes.
I
17 Q You, through his advice, said YOU did not want to?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q This summer of '82 meeting with Raul Martinez, that was
20 a time when YOU were gOing around to a number of
21 municipalities to see if they had work. Is that correct?
22 A That's correct.
23 Q In the summer of '82 that would have been June, July and
24 August, the hot days?
25 A I believe so.
I
Vol. 9-73
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q In the summer of '82 he told YOU there were going to be
( 2 o package or bids coming UP on a large project. Esperonza.
3 A A request for proposals.
4 Q A request for proposals?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Bids ore a request for proposals. I mean
7 advert1sements--excuse me. Advertisements in the newspapers
8 are what?
9 A Advertising is to present a request for proposal.
10 Q He said there will be advertisements for request for
11 proposals?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q In the summer of '82?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Did YOU know, sir, that the Mayor of Hialeah, at a
16 public meeting of the City Council, held in Hialeah, Florida I
17 on Tuesday, March 23, 1982, some three months before that,
18 had announced that H.U.D. had advised him that morning
19 that the site hod been denied for public housing, that site
20 2B previously under consideration, also had been denied and
21 H.U.D. will give the City time to advertise for proposals
22 for another site for the 133 units which Mayor Martinez---
23 MR. CHAYKIN: Is this a question?
24 MR. HOGAN: Yes.
25 Q Mayor Martinez---
I
Vol. 9-74
Padreda - Cross -
1 MR. CHAYKI~: I object to the form of the
( 2 question.
3 THE COURT: Overruled.
4 Q Mayor Martinez added that H.U.D. has indicated that they
5 feel the area West of the Palmetto Expressway lacks the city
6 services at this time, which are necessary for consideration
7 as a site for public housing.
8 Mayor Martinez went on to say that the Hialeah Housing
9 Authority should look for another site and submitted it to
10 H.U.D. for approval. Then they can advertise for a
11 developer of the pre-determined site.
12 Did yoU know that that had gone on in March?
13 A ~o, sir.
L 14 Q Big surprise to you. You don't cover the community
15 newspapers to see if advertisements or bid are coming up?
16 A I was in Texas most of the time, sir. I was not the one I
17 who was looking for that newspaper.
18 Q You would just go to the offices?
19 A No, I work. But the person who have is looking for that
20 was Mr. Alfred free to
21 Q You are not trying to imply there was anything wrong
22 with the Mayor telling YOU what he told the council three
23 months before, are you?
24 A I have no ideo what happened three months before.
25 Q When YOU testified before) were YOU meaning to imply. in
I
Vol. 9-75
Podreda - Cross -
1 the summer of '82, that the Mayor was giving YOU some secret
( 2 information?
3 A No.
4 MR. HOGAN: I misunderstood. I apologize.
5 MR. CHAYKIN: I object.
6 THE COURT: Objection. Don't make any statements,
7 counsel.
8 Q The Government took yOU back to your birth in Havana,
9 Cuba. Do YOU recall testifying about that sir? You were
10 born, were yOU not, August 25, 1933?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 e How old are you?
13 A 58.
I
Vol. 9-76
Podreda - Cross -
1 Q Was she the secretory for the contractor?
( 2 THE COURT: Did YOU understanD the question?
3 Q Was she the secretary for the contractor, being YOU,
I
Vol. 9-77
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes.
I
Vol. 9-78
Podredo - Cross -
1 a Here is a place for your signature, and the signature of
( 2 Jenette Padreda, as secretary?
3 A Yes.
4 a Let me ask YOU a question, before yOU answer, please,
5 sir. Wos--is that the signature of your wife, Jenette
6 Padreda?
7 A That's correct.
8 a Is that document dated and subscribed and sworn to
9 before a notary public.
10 A Yes, sir.
17
11 a It swears that that person, Jenette Padreda, signed that
12 document on September 30, 1982, while YOU were in Texas, as
13 a secretory of your corporation?
L 14 A Right. That's correct.
15 Q Does that refresh your recollection, possibly, that
16 Jenette Padredo was an officer of that company? I
17 A That was secretary of the office of the corporation.
18 Q The secretory and officer of the corporation.
19 A I believe so.
20 Q While yOU were in Texas, sir, on September 30, 1982,
21 could yOU tell me, sir} how your wife swore to the fact that
22 you signed that document, on September 30, 1982?
23 A Th1s document was signed by myself 1n Texas, and sent
24 back to Federal Express the some day, and my wife come and
, 25 signed that document.
I
Vol. 9-79
Podreda - Cross -
1 Q That YOU had personally appeared before her~ and sworn,
( 2 and she affixed her notary signature?
3 A I don't recall that.
4 a You don't have to recall it. Look at it. It is in
5 evidence. Do YOU see, sir, your name there? Sincerely
6 yours, Camilo Padreda, General Contractors, Inc, by Camilo
7 Padreda, President, dote September 30, 1982?
8 A That's correct.
9 Q Do yOU see this, sir, subscribed and sworn before me,
10 this 30 day of September, 1982, my commission expires?
11 A Yes.
12 a Jenette Padreda.
13 A That's correct.
L 14 a Your wife?
15 A That's correct.
16 a Were YOU in Texas, or were YOU in Miami? I
17 A According to this document, I was in Miami that day.
18 According to this document, I supposed to be 1n Miami when I
19 sign it.
20 Q That is why it is difficult eight years ago to be able
21 to determine where yoU are on a certain dote, at a certain
22 time, is it not?
23 A That's correct.
24 a Taking that into account, sir, did YOU have on
25 opportunity to look through this proposal before it was
I
Vol. 9-
Padreda - Cross -
1 filed.
I
Vol. 9-81
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q Well, I mean in the last few days, has the Government
( 2 shown YOU this document in the last month or so. to let YOU
3 read it, to refresh your recollection?
4 A No.
I
Vol. 9-87.
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes.
2 Q In the Army Intelligence Service?
3 A Yes.
4 Q You were an Aid to the Chief of General of Operations of
5 the Cuban Army?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q That is what the resume says?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q Were yOU also with B.R.A.T.--B-R-A-T?
10 A B.R.A.T. Yes, sir.
11 Q What 1s B.R.A.T?
12 A Bureau for the Refraction of Communist Activities.
13 Q That was a bureau that many Cubans, here in the United
14 States, are proud of--you were attempting to keep communism
15 down in Cuba, were YOU not?
16 A That's correct.
I
17 Q You had a distinguished career with them.
18 A I believe so.
19 Q You were, in 1959, a strong, intelligent, honest man,
20 were YOU not?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q Taught by the Army?
23 A 1958.
, 24
25
Q
A
1958. You left in 1958?
I left the beginning of 1959.
I
Vol. 9-83
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q I did not know exactly, but it said 1952 to 1959 in your
( 2 resume.
3 A January 1st 1959.
4 Q 1958. What I mean, at thot time, YOU had been well
5 trained?
6 A Correct.
7 Q You had a formal education through high schoal l
n year
8 of college. You were a young man. How old were YOU in '59?
9 A 26.
10 Q Something like that?
11 A 26.
12 Q You were forced, by the onslaught of communism and
13 Castro, to flee your country with your family and children.
~ 14 A I wos left--- I left Cuba first in March, 17, 1958,
18
15 alone, through the Ecuador Embassy--through the Ecuador
16 Embassy, and then came to this country in May of 1959. I
17 Q At that time YOU hod 3 children?
18 A At that time I had two children.
19 Q Two children in-between 1959 nnd 1964 YOU had a third?
20 A In 1961 I hove the third one.
21 Q From your second marriage, yOU had two other children?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q After leaving Cuba, as many Cubans had to do, YOU were
24 not a rich person, were you?
25 A No, I was not.
I
Vol. 9-84
Padredo - Cross -
1 Q You had to gO to work?
( 2 A Correct.
3 Q To support the children.
4 A Correct.
5 Q You went to work in honest, industrious employment, did
6 YOU not?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q You went to work in a number of jobs. I think YOU told
9 Mr. Chaykin YOU started working in a flower shop?
10 A That's correct.
11 Q I don't know that it is in Your resume.
12 A It is the missing day I was at the Everglades Flower
13 Shop working at December, 1961 until March, 1962. Its not
L 14 shown that--it is not related.
15 Q You hove a recollection, as yOU have just shown US 1
for
16 dates 1 times, and places?
17 A Some. Yes.
18 Q Some?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And yoU worKed at other jobs to support your family
21 until. YOU finally got into the Trans American Investment
22 Corporation?
23 A That's correct.
24 Q That was right here in Miami. 28 West Flagler Street,
( 25 Suite 500, Miami, Florida?
I
Vol. 9-85
Podreda - Cross -
1 A That's correct.
I
Vol. 9-86
Podreda - Cross -
1 residents.
( 2 A Correct.
3 Q $840,000
4 A $840,000. Okay, I am sorry, I understood 840,000
5 units.
6 Q You built the low rent project; 51 units in Hialeah,
7 Florida in 1971?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Total cost a million three hundred eighty thousand?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q You build 110 000 townhouses, Hendon Construction, West
1
13 not?
L 14 A Yes, sir.
15 Q And it was during that time, sir, that you first met
16 Raul Martinez, He was a young boy, D young moo, twenty-one,
17 twenty-two years old?
18 A That's correct,
19 Q You were somewhat oider l eighteen, seventeen eighteen/I
I
20 years older.
21 A Yes, sir,
22 Q As a matter of fact, the Mayor of Hialeah, in this
23 project, owned the project?
24 A That's correct.
( 25 Q And was Raul Martinez working as a broker at that time
I
Vo 1. 9-87
Podredo - Cross -
1 and olso running a newspaper?
3 newspoper.
4 Q But he introduced YOU to this project~ did he not?
5 A Yes.
6 Q He introduced YOU to the people?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q You subsequently got to build the project?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Did YOU pay him?
11 A No, he no ask for anything.
12 Q Not Quarter?
13 A Not a penny.
14 Q There are, on Page 204823, and, YOU have to look at the
15 bottom, on impressive list of other construction projects
16 YOU have hod between 1970 and 1980, are there not?
17 A Yes,
18 Q You built a lot?
19 A Yes.
20 Q You built successfully?
21 A Yes.
22 Q You were well respected?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q Were YOU not--yOU built good quality buildings; homes
25 whatever YOU had to build?
I
Vol. 9-88
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes, sir.
( 2 Q You Quilt them for the price YOU said YOU were gOing to
3 build them for?
4 A That's correct.
5 Q. You made money?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q Also, during that time, YOU were, were YOU not, engaging
8 in some political activities?
9 A That's correct.
10 Q Which we will get into.
11 THE COURT: Pick a convenient time in the next few
12 minutes.
13 MR. HOGAN: Which we will get into after lunch.
14 THE COURT: Is this a good time?
15 MR. HOGAN: That's fine.
16 THE COURT: We will be in recess until one I
17 o'clock. Don't discuss this matter among yourselves or nor
18 permit anybody to discuss it with YOu. Don't discuss the
19 matter among yourselves. Don't permit anybody to discuss it
20 with YOU in your presence. Don't read anything about this
21 matter in the newspaper, or television, or radio during this
22 recess period.
23 Don't form or express any opinion about the merits
24 of this case ot this time. The regular routine. Defense
I 25 counsel~ any additional requested instructions.
I
Vol. 9-89
Podreda - Cross -
1 MR. CHAYKIN: No.
2 MR. HOGAN: No.
3 THE COURT: We will be in recess until one
4 O'ClOCK.
5 (LUNCH RECESS)
6 Q Mr. Padreda, this morning YOU told us that the best YOU
7 recall, YOU were not under investigation until sometime in
8 November of 1989? Maybe I can refresh your recollection.
9 Is it a fact, sir, yOU hired an attorney, Mr.
19
10 Robert Josephsberg, before that time, because there was
11 extensive publicity concerning some of your transactions in
12 April of 1988?
13 A Yes, sir.
L 14 Q You Knew then, that some of YOur dealings, at least with
15 H.U.D, and with Sergio Pereira with the Porto Del Sol
16 $100,000 markup, so to speaK, were under investigation at
17 that time?
18 A What I see in the newspaper, What I read in the
19 newspaper. That's what I know.
20 Q It caused YOU to hire a criminal attorney?
21 A That's correct.
22 THE COURT: Criminal defense attorney.
23 Q Criminal defense attorney?
24 A That's correct.
25 Q That was in or about April of 1988 that investigation
I
Vol. 9-90
Padreda - Cross -
I
Vol. 9-91
Padredo - Cross -
1 Administration?
- 2 A I hod been Republican, my cord can show you since 1972.
\
3 Q Your what?
4 A '72 or '73.
I
Vol. 9-92
Podreda - Cross -
I
Vol. 9-93
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Prior to being indicted in Texas, did YOU know of the
3 investigation?
4 A What investigation?
5 Q You told us before. thot the Government indicted YOU on
6 November 2, 1982, in Texas?
7 A November 2, 1986.
8 Q Do YOU mean '86?
9 A November 2, 1982.
10 Q That was your testimony. What I am saying is, prior to
11 November 2nd, that YOU recall, did YOU know that YOU and Mr.
12 (ortiah and that is Gilliermo Hernandez Cartiah and Marcello
13 Hernandez were under investigation?
14 A Woo I was not informed that I was under investigation.
15 Q I understand YOU were not informed. I om asking YOU did
16 YOU know? I
,
23 Q
24 A Correct.
25 Q Two days after yOU learned of the indictment?
I
Vol. 9-95
Padreda - Cross -
1 A A hum.
I
Vol. 9-96
Padredo - Cross -
1 Q Let me show YOU a doted article from the Miami Herold.
( 2 See if YOU can identify that as betng the article that was
3 published, here in Miami, that YOU are talking to when it
4 became known in Miami?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q That article was printed on November 11, 1982. Thursday
7 November 11, 1982.
8 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection.
9 THE COURT: Objection to the form of the Question,
10 if it was in the form of a Question.
11 MR. HOGAN: I ask the Government to stipulate to
12 the dote.
13 Q Compare this with the article YOU had. See if it is the
L 14 same article.
15 A Yes.
16 Q Does that refresh YOur recollection? It was two days
I
17 after the indictment, November 11, 1982?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q This come as a complete surprise to YOU, did it not?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q This was, according to your testimony, sometime after
22 YOU hod discuss $150,000 with the Mayor of Hialeah, Mayor
23 Raul Martinez. was it not?
24 A That's correct.
25 Q Did YOU call the Mayor and soy. "J have been indicted?"
I
Vol. 9-97
Padreda - Cross -
1 A I don't recall I called anybody.
2 Q Did YOU get in touch with him at that time?
3 A I don't recall.
17
were one of them, were YOU not?
A
Q
I think so.
Okay. What I om saying is, even though yoU were
I
I
23 hod bank loans, and YOU hod a proposal for this Esperanzo
24 project, government's Exhibit 106, that was filed?
25 A Yes, sir.
I
Vol. 9-98
Padreda - {ross -
1 Q Did YOU have any idea that that might affect your
( 2 dealings with H.U.D, or that might affect your dealings with
3 financing institutions, or that indictment might affect your
4 credit?
5 A I don't think so, because, first of all, in order to
6 affect me. they have to be find me guilty, and that was my
7 recollection at that time.
8 Q There is no H.U.D. regulation if YOU are under in
9 indictment?
10 A I don't know. It was--if it was a H.U.D. regulation, if
11 I was indicted from that.
12 Q It did not affect your YOU at al]?
13 A An affect my life.
14 Q No, affect your credit.
15 A No. My credit--my credit was not affected at all.
16 a Did your wife have to resign from the board of directors I
17 of a bonk?
18 A My wife was resigned from the board of directors to the
19 bank because she no like the way it was conducted the loans
20 at the bank, and ---may I finish?
21 Q Certainly.
22 A And she send a letter or talked to the Chairman of the
23 Boord of the Bank, and told the Chairman of the Boord that
24 the way they was conducting the loans to personal friends of
25 the owner of the bank, that she no like it. And for that
I
Vol. 9-99
Padreda - Cross -
1 reason, she resigned.
I
Vol. 9-100
Padreda - Cross -
1 A That's correct.
I
Vol. 9-101
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q You'do recall, do YOU not, prior to the Fxpungement
2 Motion that he fl1ed--the motion Marty Steinberg filed?
3 A I don't recall that.
4 Q You don't recall the motion that was shown?
5 A I don't recall. I don't recall the motion. If YOU show
6 me.
7 Q Here is Government's Exhibit number 82, that I showed
8 YOU this morning?
9 A May I read it.
10 Q Certainly.
11 (SIDEBAR CONFERENCE)
12 MR. CHAYKIN: I object to the use of pleadings
13 that we turned over pursuant to this Court's order that were
L 14 ordered expunged and sealed. He is using letters and other
15 documents, the original purpose of turning them over. The
16 document was because the defense felt there was some type of
I
17 plea agreement, cooperotion agreement that resulted in the
18 dismissal of this indictment, so we turned 1t over.
19 This Court ordered all the pleadings pertaining to
20 that there was an agreement pretrial diversion agreement
21 that answered the defendants Question with respect to any
22 benefits that this individual received from the Government.
23 Now they wont to go in and cross-examine him on
24 pleadings filed by his attorney, representations made by his
25 attorney in that process, letters written by his attorney
I
Vol. 9-102
Padreda - Cross -
1 and perhaps written by other people.
( 2 In that process--I object to it. There was on
3 order, Court order sealing those documents. It is a
4 collaterial matter. It contains representations mode by
5 other individuals. I think it goes way beyond. I
6 introduced the order of expungement. It addresses the
7 irrelevant issue of any other agreement.
8 If they want to talk to him about the merits of
9 the indictment or lack of merits, that is one of the things
10 to gO into the pleadings that were ordered by the trial
11 Court. I think it is improper. It is collateral and
12 irrelevant to the cross examination of this individual.
13 MR. HOGAN: Not only did they open it up, this is
14 a letter by his agent hired to do this material. If I have
15 pleadings, the agent filed the latter.
16 His attorney sent the letter to him. He makes a
I
17 statement in the letter, Mr. Padreda was advised by
18 officials of the City of Hialeah that neither he nor his
19 company could be considered for a $5,000,000 project by
20 which Mr. Padreda hod an opportunity to obtain due to the
21 pending nature of the charges against him.
22 Those charges were filed November 9. This letter
23 is based and sent to Mr. Padreda prior to the expungement
24 motion, because Mr. Steinberg asked in a motion on October
( 25 12, 1983; it is a prior written statement.
I
Vol. 9-103
Padreda - Cross -
1 He filed an official proceeding to where the
2 United States AttorneY. his prior statement, just as any
(
3 agent. Furthermore, on the expulsion record, the motion to
4 dismiss the indictment was filed by the Government based
5 upon him completing the pretrial diversion; subsequent to
6 that document. The record was expunged in the pretrial
7 diversion records, they gave him, 1t says he accepted
8 responsibility.
9 This man stood in here and said he was 100 percent
10 innocent. I am not gOing into that, but he accepted
11 responsibility for it in order to get it expunged, which 1s I
~
12 a completely illegal order for the Government.
13 In their testimony they said they won't appeal
L 14 because there is no such thing. He has used the prior
15 statement in October of '83. He was saying the reason he
16 lost it was because of the indictment. I
17 MR. CHAYKIN: It is not his prior inconsistent
18 statement. It is not his statement. That is a statement
19 from his lawyer. A statement from his lawyer. It is not a
20 prior inconsistent statement; not only that; that is May of
21 '83, October of '83. Almost a full year after the event
22 took place.
23 These matters were ordered expunged and sealed.
24 The purpose, if he wonts to address the responsibility
25 aspect of this individual. taking responsibility for those
I
Vol. 9-104
Padreda - Cross -
1 actions persuant to the pretrial diversion, that is
( 2 appropriate, but to gO into pleadings, Your Honor, because
3 that was the purpose of opening UP the file. he is taking
4 the stand and it is appropriate inquiry; and everything else
5 in that file was considered expunged. The Government
6 represented to the District Court they had had certain
7 facts.
8 MR. HOGAN: You're talking about what somebody
9 else did. I moved for this material. I move it to be
10 unsealed. They said they were getting the file. They were
11 coming UP here and they told me when they got it, I don't
12 mind giving it to yOU, but I need an order from Judge Kehoe.
13 MR. CHAYKIN: That's correct. That was because of
14 possible material pertaining to the agreement he had with
15 the Government. They originally thought he had some type of
16 cooperation agreement with the Government. I think it is
I
17 inappropriate to cross-examine him on matters sealed.
18 THf COURT: I would hope yOU will not mOKe a big
19 tent out of it. Let's stay under the main tent.
20 MR. HOGAN: I have to show him. He did not
21 remember. I showed it to the Government. Then I went into
22 expungement, so I can do something.
23 THE COURT: Get down to what yOU wont.
24 (SIDEBAR CONFERENCE CONCLUDED)
( 25 Q Do YOU recall yOU had on opportunity to read that, did
I
Vol. 9-105
Padreda - Cross -
1 you?
2 A Yes.
l
3 Q The Government refreshed your recollection with this
4 document before yOU were able to say that Motion for
5 Expungement was filed the 16th day of May, 1984, correct?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q Prior to that time, Mr. Steinberg, on your behalf,
8 communicated with the Texas Court, and with the assistant
9 United states Attorney, Robert Burke. Do yOU remember Mr.
10 Burke?
11 A That's correct.
12 Q Mr. Steinberg, if yOU recall, said that Mr. Padreda was
13 advised by officials of the City of Htaleah, that neither he
L 14 nor his company would be considered for a $5,000,000
15 project, which Mr. Padreda had an opportunity to obtain, due
16 to the pending noture of the charges against him. And he
I
17 sent yoU a COpy of that letter. Do YOU recall that?
18 A No, but I would like to see it.
19 Q Certainly. The expungement was made May 16, 1984. This
20 letter is October 12, 1983. Can I ask YOU before I show
21 this, did yOU obtain in Hialeah, between December 13. 1982,
22 and October 12, 1983, or attempt to obtain any other
23 $5,000,000 contract?
24 A No, sir.
!
~ 25 Q Let me show yOU this letter, October 12, 1983, if YOU
I
Vol. 9-106
Padreda - Cross -
1 look on the lost page, a copy goes to you?
( 2 A Yes} sir.
3 Q What I am saying} sir, is in October of 1983.
4 A Yes.
5 Q There was Q letter sent to Texas} to get your record
6 expunged?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q Which contains the statement that yOU lost this project
9 in Hialeah, because YOU were indicted.
10 Did yOU tell your attorney that and, authorizing
11 him to tell the Court in the Southern District of Texas?
12 A I think Mr. Marty Steinberg was doing the research at
13 that time.
14 Q The research?
15 A Yes.
16 Q As port of his research} did he talk to you?
17 A He talked to me. I don't recall telling him
18 specifically that I was informed by the officiols of the
19 City of Hialeah that neither he or his company could be
20 considered for a $5}000,OOO project because that project was
21 already done in 1983.
22 Q I understand.
23 A But 01so--1 don't finish yet. I do remember saying to
24 Mr. Steinberg that H.U.D. project in Dade County offiCial
( 25 had told me that because I have the pending this indictment,
I
Vol.. 9-107
Padredo - Cross -
1 they would not consider me for any projects in the CitY--in
( 2 Dade County.
3 Q When did he tell YOU that, do yOU recall?
4 A I don't recall, but it was after the indictment.
5 Q After YOU where are indicted?
6 A After I was indicted.
7 Q Now, YOU can tell us, without a question of a doubt,
8 that indictment hurt YOU with H.U.D, did it not?
9 A I believe that project was the City of Hialeah Housing
10 Authority.
11 a The man from H.U.n. told you?
12 A No man from H.U.D. told me. I don't know--maybe YOU--
, 24
25
portner, we are trying to get a project for the carpet mill
in Hialeah. I don't recoIl if that is the project that Mr.
I
Vol. 9-108
Padreda - Cross -
1 Steinberg was talking about.
I
Vol. 9-109
Padreda - Cross -
1 A I supposed to be very interested in that.
I
Vol. 9-110
Padreda - Cross -
1 A I presume I read it when I sign it.
( 2 Q Let me show YOU Defendant's Exhibit Number 37, for
3 identification. See if that is your signature on that
4 document, and YOU recall signing that document.
5 A This is my signature.
6 Q By signing the document, accepting responsibility for
7 those two charges, was it your understanding that yoU were
8 accepting responsibility to pay back the money?
9 A That was the advice of my attorney, in Texas, at that
10 time.
11 Q Before YOU got Mr. Steinberg?
12 A Before I have Mr. Steinberg.
13 Q Do YOU recall the indictment against YOU was dismissed
14 on February 27th, 1984, and a motion was filed on that
15 date--strike that. Do YOU recall that the Government filed
16 a motion to dismiss your indictment on February 27, 1984,
I
17 based upon your completion of pretrial diversion?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Even before your record was to be expunged, the
20 Government through Robert Burke, Assistant United States
21 Attorney, agreed to give YOU a letter, did they not, stating
22 that it is not the intent of pretrial diversion to incumber
23 Mr. Padreda's activity to enter into civil contracts with
24 any branch of the United States Government. Do yOU remember
25 that?
I
Vol. 9-111
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes, I believed that. Yes, I believed that. I remember
c 2 that letter.
3 Q I meon, they were trying to put YOU whole as of August
4 11, 1983. were they not? By putting yoU whole, I mean toke
5 care of any problems YOU might have with H.U.D. or with your
6 banks?
7 A I don't understand very well, your question. Would yOU
8 repeat it. I would appreciate it.
I
Vol. 9-11~
Podredo - Cross -
1 And I have not been able to corroborate this information.
( 2 The reason I brought the Government up, I did not think it
3 was to start doing something, unless I ask him to refer to
4 this. I would ask they find out from me if, in fact] this
5 was a motion made and filed by the Government to check on
6 the mental competency prior to this time.
7 MR. CHAYKIN: Your Honor] I don't know anything
8 about it.
9 MR. HOGAN: You gave it to me.
10 MR. CHAYKIN: I know I gave it to him. I assumed
11 it was 0 certificate of service after the pleading that was
12 attached. I think that was attached to a pleading that was
13 filed. It hod nothing to do with mental incompetency. It
14 was a mistake. I called UP Mr. Bird. It is the first time
15 I learned of any mental incompetency issue.
16 MR. HOGAN: These were in the pleadings.
I
17 THE COURT: Did this come from the file?
18 MR. HOGAN: They are saying it came from the
19 paCKage I gave them. Was it in the file that was expunged?
20 MR. CHAYKIN: I have to toke a look.
21 THE COURT: Was it in the file?
22 MR. CHAYKIN: I believe that was in the file. T
23 have to toke a look. I turned it over as port of the files
24 that was expunged.
1 25 MR. HOGAN: We can solve the problem if YOU find
I
Vol. 9-113
Padredo - Cross -
1 Qut for me.
I
Vol. 9-114
Padreda - Cross -
I
Vol. 9-115
Padreda - Cross -
1 investigation and were ready to indicte you in Miami? I am
15 talking about November 1989 to the dote yOU signed the plea
16 agreement that the Government showed you.
I
17 A I was
I
Vol, 9-116
Padreda - Cross -
1 September 26th~ 1990, during this period of time you hired,
10 A That's right.
11 a There come a time during this period, did there not,
12 sir, when the Government told yoU that they were
13 investigating your daughter?
14 A let me clarify, The Government not told me anything.
15 The Government sent a letter to my daughter's lawyer, Mark
16 Hilderbrandt, that my doughter is a target of the
17 investigation.
18 That is the way that I learned that my daughter
19 was a target of the investigation.
20 Q That was a great shock, was it not?
21 A Yes, it was.
22 a Do you recall when that was?
23 A No, I don't recall exactly when it was.
24 a Was it after the Mayor of Hialeah was indicted and
25 suspended in April of 1990?
I
Vol. 9-117
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes.
( 2 a You hod not been indicted, but yOU found out that in
3 addition to YOU the Government sent your daughter a target
4 letter?
5 A That's correct.
6 a That target letter--her name is Morto Iglesias. Please
7 spell the last name.
8 A I-g-I-e-s-i-a-s.
9 Q Was close to YOU, was she not?
10 A My daughter?
11 a Yes, She was emotional and excited. She hod some
12 problems, herself?
13 A Yes.
14 a It caused her great emotional concern, did it not?
15 A Yes.
16 a Which she told YOU about over a number of months? I
17 A Many years.
18 Q Since she got the target letter, that really affected
19 her?
20 A Yes.
21 a It affected your relationship with her?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q ~ot your love for her, but it was very difficult. She
24 was continually after you, Hdaddy, YOU have to get me out of
25 this. I did not do anything. You have to get me out of
I
Vol. 9-118
Padredo - Cross -
1 this."
( 2 Is that correct?
3 A She was talking to me many, many times.
4 Q Even though YOU were willing to fight, willing to try to
5 prove your innocence--
6 A Yes, sir.
7 Q --That over come YOU, did it not?
8 A Sure.
9 Q That target letter to your doughter?
10 A That's correct.
11 Q That wos the reason, the promise that the Government
12 gave to yOU and your plea agreement, that they would not
13 indict your daughter, that yoU ended UP agreeing to
14 cooperate with the Government, did yoU not?
15 A That's correct.
16 Q That was all finally--- By the way, YOU were in Q
I
17 terrible emotional state, yourself, prior to this plea
18 agreement. You called a number of your friends. You told
19 them what the Government was doing to you. You broke down,
20 crYing on the telephone with them?
21 A Occasionally.
22 Q Had that not happened, sir, YOU would have let them
23 indict YOU and yOU would have gone to trial, would YOU not?
24 A Yes.
( 25 Q Because at that time, sir, before they said your
I
Vol. 9-119
Padredo - Cross -
1 daughter was a target, YOU did not think YOU were guilty,
( 2 did you?
3 A I never think my daughter was guilty.
4 Q You did not think YOU were guilty either?
5 A I don't think I WQS guilty at that time, no.
6 Q You really don't think YOU are guilty today. You think
7 YOU only made a technical violation?
8 A r think I guilty because I make a violation, did not
9 sign the papers that was presented to the Government.
10 Q Technical violation?
11 A Technical violation. Conspiracy violation. I am no
12 legal attorney to give yOU the legality of the word, but I
13 was guilty to sign the paper and to make a false statement.
L 14 Q Prior to signing the plea agreement that the Government
15 has marked Government's Exhibit 83. on September 26th. 1990.
16 YOU had not, yourself, sat down with these prosecutors; the
I
17 FBI or any agent and told them any story. under oath. had
18 you?
19 A No.
20 Q This plea agreement was arranged between your lawyer
21 Samuel Robin, and the Government, correct?
22 A That's correct.
23 Q Pursuant to that plea agreement, instead of going before
, 24
25
a Grand Jury, presenting evidence and having an indictment
returned, yOU agreed to waive that procedure and let them
I
Vol. 9-120
Padredo - Cross -
1 just file on information charging YOU with two felonies, did
( 2 YOU not?
3 A Yes.
4 Q You agreed to plead guilty, did yoU not?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q As part of the plea agreement YOU signed, sir, the
7 Government agreed not to prosecute the defendant Camilo
8 Padreda's daughter, Marto Iglesias for any offense based
9 upon information of which it is now aware, correct?
10 A Yes.
11 Q As long os YOU performed pursuant to the plea agreement?
12 A I don't hear you.
13 Q As long as YOU performed pursuant to this plea
14 agreement--
15 A That's correct.
16 Q --She won't be indicted?
I
17 A That's correct.
18 Q If YOU don't, it is open on season on her, is it not?
19 A I believe so.
20 Q In addition to your daughter--I don't mean to belabor
21 this part--was there ever a discussion about they did not
22 have to put in the plea agreement but they had no interest
23 in indicting your wife? Do YOU recall at one time?
24 A I don't recall. I don't recall that, if anybody say my
( 25 wife would be target or indicted or anything. I don't
I
Vol. 9-121
Padredo - Cross -
1 recall that.
I
Vol. 9-122
Padreda - Cross -
1 found out for the first time yoU had Judge King, did YOU
2 not?
3 A That's correct.
4 Q The Chief Judge.
5 As a result of that. in order to enter the plea
o agreement. YOU had to go before Judge King, did YOU not?
7 A Yes.
8 Q You went before Judge King and plead guilty, did yoU
9 not?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did your attorneY--striKe that.
12 When YOU got there, sir, YOU found out that Judge
13 King, after putting YOU under oath, do yoU recall he said,
14 "raise your right hand and swear that the testimony yOU will
15 give is the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth so
16 help YOU God?"
I
17 I don't mean he did it.
18 A Yes.
19 Q And yoU did. You found out Judge King--you had bad
20 luck --Judge King was not one of the Judge's that accepted
6
21 plea agreements. That was one of the first times YOU found
22 that out?
23 A Yes.
24 Q All of 0 sudden YOU were standing there in Court before
( 25 this Judge talking about that 10 years and the plea
I
Vol. 9-J23
Padreda - Cross -
1 agreement YOU hod. and that .Judge says, "I don't take plea
( 2 agreements."
3 A That's correct.
4 Q And then did there come a time when these words were
5 asked of YOU, "all right, then let's move on to the second
6 paint; that is. as YOU well know, I am sure. they have told
7 YOU at the U.S. Attorneys Office I don't engage in or permit
8 plea bargains.
9 Hod not the United States Attorney told YOU that
10 or did YOU first learn that right there for the first time?
11 A Repeat that.
12 Q What I am saying is, so YOU got the picture right, this
13 is actually when YOU were in Court. when YOU were actually
L 14 in Court was October 10. 1990. I have a transcript of that,
15 if YOU want to make sure.
1& A October 10. I
17 Q October 10, 1990. Do YOU remember Andrew Rice was
18 there. Peter Outerbridge was there. Samuel Robin was with
19 YOU. Rice and Outerbrldge for the Government and Robin for
20 yourself. You were standing in front of the Court?
21 A Yes.
22 Q The Court told you that, I want YOU to know. I am sure
23 the Government told you. I don't take plea agreements. Was
24 that a shock to you?
25 A It was a shock to me at that moment. but I don't recall.
I
Vol. 9-124
Padreda - Cross -
I
Vol. 9-125
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q I will show it to YOU.
I
Vol. 9-126
Padreda - Cross -
1 Do you remember him telling YOU that?
( 2 A Yes.
3 Q Let me ask you. sir. Hwithout any regard to any
4 agreement do YOU wont to plead guilty?H
5 Then he says. "YOU may want to ask your lawyer
6 about this. It takes 3 parties to any such agreement. The
7 two of YOU and the Court and I don't permit my hands to be
8 tied on what I feel is an appropriate sentence."
9 Do I read too fast?
10 A I think so. What line are YOU talking now?
11 Q 21. HI don't permit my hands to be tied---"
12 A Now you're talking the next page. no? 21 say what I
13 feel is the appropriate sentence renders or given.
L 14 Q Correct. Two of YOU and the Court," I don't permit my
I
Vol. 9-127
Padreda - Cross -
1 many documents YOU refer to as the plea agreement, that was
( 2 tn the file---"
3 MR. CHAYKIN: I object to reading this.
4 T~E COURT: Sustained.
5 MR. HOGAN: I will ask him specially---
6 BY MR. HOGAN:
7 Q Do YOU recall, sir, your counsel, YOU were standing
8 there, to give a voluntary plea? Your counsel was asking,
9 "have yoU been promised anything to entice yOU or to get to
10 yoU plead guilty?"
11 Mr. Robin said, "no, Your Honor."
12 Do yOU recall that?
13 A Yes.
14 Q But yOU hod been promised something that YOU hod plead
15 guilty. You were promised your daughter would not be
16 indicted? I
17 A What I was talking about any other thing that was not in
18 this paper. Any other promise that was done in this paper.
19 Q You never told the Judge about that.
7
20 A I am sorry. The only thing that I was talking, my
21 ottorney--on the advice of my attorney, my attorney told me
22 that it was in reference to any other agreement not in this
23 paper. I SOy, no, it was not any other agreement.
24 Q Then when the Court asked yOU, sir, Hare YOU under the
25 impression yOU have been promised anything, anything to get
I
Vol. 9-128
Padreda - Cross -
1 you to plead guilty," on page 19. bottom of 19. "are you
( 2 under the impression you were promised anything to get YOU
3 to plead guilty?"
4 You soid, no.
5 A Yes. si r. I say, no.
6 Q Your understanding then---
7 A I say no.
g Q Your understanding was YOU still had a deal with the
9 Government thot your daughter would not be indicted?
10 A That's correct.
11 Q ~ut the Judge had not been clear to YOU; yoU did not
12 understand?
13 A I don't know if I understand now.
L 14 Q Your your lawyer told yoU to answer no, sir?
15 A That's correct.
16 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection.
I
17 THE COURT: Objection sustoined.
18 Q Immediately after October 10. 1990. when you entered
19 your pleo, the Judge gave yOU, did he not, a not1ce that YOU
20 were going to be sentenced on December 18, 1990?
21 A That's correct,
22 Q Between October 10, 1990, when YOU plead and December
23 18, 1990, YOU had not testified in any triol, had you? Do
24 YOU understand me?
25 A Say it ogoin, if YOU don't mind.
I
Vol. 9-129
Padreda - Cross -
1 a September 26th is the dote YOU say YOU signed the plea.
( 2 Do YOU understand?
3 A Yes.
4 Q October 10, 1990, is the day you plead; YOU went in
5 before the Judge and YOU actually said YOU were guilty?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q Do YOU recall that?
8 A Yes.
9 a Between that dote, the Judge then said, "YOU come bock
10 for sentencing on December 1B, 1990."
11 December of last year; 7 days before Christmas,
12 did he not?
13 A That's correct.
L 14 a What I am saying, sir, between these two dotes, October
15 10. 1990. to December 18, 1990. YOU had not testified in any
16 trial, hod you?
17 A When yoU SQY triol---
18 a Like YOU are doing today.
19 A No in trial.
20 Q This is a trial, with a jury?
21 A No.
22 Q You hod, however, between October 10th and December 18th
23 testified before a grand jury or two grand juries or 3 grand
24 juries?
25 A Yes.
I
Vol. 9-130
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q How many grand jury's did YOU testify before?
( 2 A One,
3 Q Just one?
4 A Yes,
5 Q And have yOU talked to the Federal Bureau of
6 Investigation.
7 A If I talked to the agents of the Federal Bureau of
8 Investigation?
9 Q Did yOU sit down with them in a room and they asked you
10 Questions?
11 A Sure.
12 Q You answered the Questions?
13 A Under oath, yes,
14 Q How many times hod yOU done that?
15 A I don't recall. Three, four times.
16 Q long periods of time, four or five hours at a time? I
17 A Two or three hours,
18 Q Two or three hours?
19 A I don't recoIl. More than four hours.
20 Q Four hours total?
21 A At the most, four hours. A day,
22 Q How many days?
23 A Three or four, I cannot tell yoU exactly how many days,
24 Q One grand jury?
25 A Let's soy four.
I
Vol. 9-131
?adreda - Cross -
1 Q Four days?
( 2 A 12 hours.
3 Q 12 hours with the Government, right?
4 A With the Government and my lawyer.
5 Q And Mr. Robin?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q Sitting in 0 room where they asked YOU Questions; they
8 kept notes. Your lawyer was there to protect your rights.
9 You can ask him Questions if YOU wished?
10 A That's correct.
11 Q However, YOU have not been sentenced as of yet, have
12 you?
13 A No.
L 14 a Your lawyer filed a motion to continue the sentence, did
15 he not?
16 A That's correct.
17 Q However, YOU wanted to be sentenced. You wanted to get
18 it over with, did yOU not? YOU wanted to get it over with
19 on December 18, 1990, did yOU not?
20 A Yes.
21 a You wonted to know what this Judge would give yOU; that
22 your lawyer and the Government said, Hlet's wait until
23 after.H
24 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection.
25 THE COURT: Objection sustained.
I
Vol, 9-137
Padreda - Cross -
I
Vol. 9-133
Padredo - Cross -
1 is in the poper what they going to do.
I
Vol. 9-134
Podreda - Cross -
1 corporation with the Government. And will favorably
( 2 characterize the characterization as appropriate.
3 The United States further agreed to inform any
4 Court enforcement agency, Government department of or
5 agency, Government, commission or any other Government
6 entity of the nature and extent of the defendant corporation
7 should the defense request that such a disclosure be mode.
8 Q Do yOU know what that means?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q What does it mean?
11 A That I request them to appear in the front of the Court
12 the day by the sentence; they have to tell the truth of
13 whatever I have done.
L 14 Q Does it say and they will favorably characterize the
15 same as such a characterization is appropriate?
16 A If appropriate.
I
17 Q And do they also say should yoU get any jail time, they
18 will inform the appropriate authorities of your cooperation?
19 Do yOU understand that the Bureau of Prisons---
20 A I don't read that.
I
Vol. 9-135
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q They will inform the appropriate authorities of your
2 cooperation, that being---
(
3 A Is that the page over here? Can I read it?
4 Q Yes. The United States further agrees to inform any
5 Court law enforcement agency, Government department or
6 agency, Government commission or other Government entity of
7 the nature and extent of the defendant's cooperation, should
8 the defendant request such disclosure. That means the
9 parole deportment.
10 A Okay.
11 Q Bureau of Prisons, that type, or H.U.D.?
12 A A hum.
13 Q Or your banks?
14 A A hum.
15 Q As part of the plea agreement that yOU signed, sir, did
16 nDt YOU sign and agree along with the Government, page 6, I
I
17 am reading, in order to effectively---Do yOU see paragroph
18 14 on poge 6?
19 A Yes.
20 Q In the plea ogreement, Government's Exhibit number 82,
21 in order to effectively allow the defendant the opportunity
22 to provide the fullest amount of assistance to law
23 enforcement possible. Do yOU see that?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Thus to benefit as a result of the some to the fullest
I
Vol. 9-136
Padreda - Cross -
1 extent; do YOU see that?
( 2 A That's correct.
3 a All parties to this plea agreement request the Court
4 defer sentencing as to such time as the defendant's
5 assistance has been substantially completed. Do yoU know
6 what that meant?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 a What did that mean?
9 A That I have to be ot the hearing when they request it.
10 a They would request that yoU not be sentenced until YOU
I
Vol. 9-137
Padreda - Cross -
1 have not been sentenced, have you?
( 2 A Correct.
3 Q The Case Delago Project, sir, was the project that was
4 the subject of your subsequent plea of guilty; do YOU recall
5 that?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q That was based, was it not, on documents selected---
8 Strike that.
9 Did you have anything to do with selecting what
10 count yoU would plead to, or was that done by your attorney
11 and the Government?
12 A My attorney and the Government.
13 Q You did not particularly care what counts you plead to
L 14 as long as yOU know what your maximum sentence would be and
15 that your daughter would not be there with you?
16 A I did not care about anything; Just about my daughter.
I
17 Q Is that as YOU feel today?
18 A That is how I feel forever.
19 Q Would yOU SOy, sir, the moon is blue if the Government
20 would not indict your daughter?
21 A I would not. One of the agreement with the Government
22 is not to hire or not to tell a lie; just to tell the truth.
23 Q Who decides if you are lYing?
24 A You people.
25 Q The Government?
I
Vol. 9-138
Podredo - Cross -
1 A I think the Judbe; the Honorable Judge will decide and
~
I
Vol. 9-139
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q People sometimes get ~etters in the moil from HUD; it is
I
( 2 a nonprofit organization?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Provides hot lunches, help for the elderly?
5 A This is a non profit station that have over 10,000 or
6 eleven thousand units through the United States.
7 Q By sponsor, meaning they were the ones who would build
8 it?
9 A They are going to own the building.
10 Q Once it is built?
11 A That's correct.
12 Q In order for them to get the building, somebody has to
13 buy the land to meet the speaks specifications, build the
L 14 building and turn it over to them?
15 A That's correct.
16 Q You were involved from beginning to end or just with the
I
17 end?
18 A From beginning to end.
19 Q Did there come a time YOU got an option to purchase the
20 land?
21 A That's correct.
22 Q You are telling us YOU paid 70 thousand for that option?
23 A 700 thousand.
, 24
25
Q
A
Seven hundred thousand for the option?
Yes. The price of the land is $700,000.
I
Vol. 9-140
Podreda - Cross -
1 Q I understand that, but YOU did not put UP 700 thousand.
( 2 A I put 70 thousand dollars.
3 Q 10 percent?
4 A 10 percent.
5 Q For the option for the land?
6 A Correct.
7 Q That was with Renan Steve Delgado, was it not?
8 A One of his operations.
9 Q Lazer, N.V.?
10 A That's correct.
11 Q It was his corporation. He, along with another
12 gentleman, signed the option agreement?
13 A That's correct.
L 14 Q If, in fact, YOU did not get the project on that piece
15 of land, YOU would end UP with the land if you paid the 700
16 thousand?
17 A That's correct.
18 Q If YOU did not buy the land, YOU would have lost the
19 deposit?
20 A That's right.
21 a Who was Your portner?
22 A Myself.
23 a You alone?
24 A Yes.
c 25 a Your money?
Vol. 9-141
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes.
( 2 Q Because his land was already tied UP for six months for
3 only $100?
4 A That is exactly right.
5 Q He said, Hif YOU wont more, YOU hove to pay," right?
6 A That's right.
7 Q And YOU did?
8 A Yes. I went to the bank.
9 Q Borrowed; put it in escrow?
10 A That's correct.
11 Q Porta Del Sol is right behind Fsperonza, is it not?
12 A That is Porto Del Sol,
13 MR, HOGAN: Can I point that out, Judge?
14 THE COURT: Yes.
15 MR. HOGAN: This is Porta Del Sol; this project
16 here. I
17 BY MR. HOGAN:
18 Q Then there came a time they would buy the property; BOA
19 purchase it?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Was that before the option ran out?
2.2 A That supposed to be before the option went off, and they
23 don't have the money. VOA.
24 Q So YOA does not have it?
25 A And I went to Renan Delgado and request him to extend to
I
Vol. 9-143
Padreda - Cross -
1 another month. By that time he told me he was ready to talk
( 2 to his lawyer, to send me a letter, that I would toke bock
3 to the land, and I would have lost the 70 thousand myself.
4 Q What did YOU do?
5 A I request him that everything was approved, show him
6 that the HUn was approved, the land and everything was
7 approved just a matter of time.
8 He give me on extension. He was talking to the
9 lawyers from VOA, in order to give another extension. I
10 think it was 30 days or something like that.
11 a Extended the time for 30 days. What I am asking is when
12 the land was sold, who was it sold to?
13 A It was sold to VOA.
14 Q It was sold not for the 700 thousand that YOU had the
15 option for?
16 A For $800,000.
I
17 Q You actually did whot is known as flipped the contract,
18 correct?
19 A That's correct.
20 Q You had on option for 700, where YOU put UP 70. You
21 flipped it to VOA for 800?
22 A That's correct.
23 Q $100,000 profit?
24 A Less $20,000 that we spent in the demucking and cleaning
25 the land ond put some fill.
I
Vol. 9-144
Podredo - Cross -
1 Q Did YOU gO back to--- By the way) as to that, did YOU
( 2 really--- Strike that.
3 There was no real estate broker involved, was
4 there?
5 A No.
6 Q So in January and February of 1986. the land was sold to
7 VOA for $800,000, and that contract to VOA called for
8 brokers commissjon, did it not?
9 A That's correct.
10 Q That brokers commission was to be to Regional Realty and
11 Appraisal Services?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q Right?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 a You hod to gO to Delgado and sit down and talk to him to
16 get him to do this, did YOU not?
17 A That's correct.
18 a Was he at first hesitant to do it?
19 A No.
20 Q Just said fine?
21 A Fine. because he told me in the beginning the price was
22 net, without any realtor. If I have realtors involved it
23 would be higher priced.
24 Q Did yOU not know HUn was involved?
I 25 A How can I know that HUn was involved? When? When?
I
Vol. 9-145
Podreda - Cross -
1 When I put the---
I
Vol. 9-146
Padreda - Cross -
( 2 A That's right.
3 a The 20,000 for mucking, actually yOU went bock and---
4 A And do it.
5 a Tried to show Delgado bills for that, did you not?
6 A I sent a bill for that.
7 Q They were fake, were they not?
8 A Why?
9 Q Because YOU did not do that.
10 A Who said thot?
11 Q Did you?
12 A I did.
13 Q You did the mucKing?
14 A Yes.
15 Q $20,000 worth?
16 A No. 15, 14 thousand.
I
17 a You gave Mr. Delgado bills for that, did yOU not?
18 A No. I billed for my own company. I billed 20,000,
19 because that was the agreement; $20,000, to take the
20 garbQge.
21 That was the agreement with Delgado, I would
22 charge $20,000 to take all the garbage and demuck the
23 property, because HUn would not accept enough pay for the
24 mucking.
( 25 a Did you not take Mike Vasquez over there in an attempt
I
Vol. 9-148
Padreda - Cross -
1 to introduce him as a broker?
( 2 A Yes. I introduced him as the broker. I don't deny that
3 I did that. What I say, I did the work for the demucking J
I
Vol. 9-149
Podreda - Cross -
1 The only thing I can tell YOU what I read in the newspaper.
Q
( 2 t did not hear who YOU said was the target.
3 A I said UP to today, to this moment, I have not received
4 any communication for any agency that I am a target of the
5 investigation of the land deal with Sergio Pereira.
6 Q They told yOU that as part of your plea agreement that
7 was one of the things YOU were under investigation for?
8 A That was not part of the agreement.
9 Q As port of YOur use immunity, once they gave you--Iet me
10 finish; then YOU can go.
11 As port of giving YOU immunity, did YOU tell them
12 about the deal YOU had involving Sergio Pereira, on the
13 property located at 114 Avenue and Flagler Street?
14 A At the moment the plea agreement was no mention at any
15 time that deal.
16 Q I agree. That is done. Plea agreement is over. After
17 that YOU sit down for 20 hours with the Government?
18 A They asked me Questions about checks and asked me
19 questions about deals. I respond---
20 THE COURT: Sir, listen carefully to his
21 Questions. Then answer directly. If it needs on
22 explanation I will let you do so. Rephrase your question.
23 BY MR. HOGAN:
24 Q The plea agreement of September 26th and your plea of
c 25 October 10th, 1990 are finished. You are now waiting
Vo].9-J50
Padredo - Cross -
1 sentence?
( 2 A Yes.
3 a Pursuant to that plea agreement, YOU have immunity for
4 what YOU tell the Government, when they ask YOU questions,
5 whatever YOU tell them, YOU have immunity if it involves any
6 crimes yOU committed. You understand that?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Pursuant to that, because of that, you sat down with the
9 Federal Bureau of Investigation and answered their questions
10 about certain transactions YOU were involved in, correct?
11 A Yes.
12 Q One of those transactions concerned rezoning the piece
13 of property, did it not, 114th Avenue and Flagler Street?
14 A That's correct.
15 Q That was a situation where yOU were in partners with
16 Sergio Pereira, was it not?
17 A Yes.
18 a You did rezone on that property, did you not?
19 A I was port of that group. I was port owner] 25 percent
20 owner of that group.
21 Q Mr. Pereira was 25 percent owner?
22 A That's correct.
23 Q Two other individuols were 25 percent owner?
24 A It was Mike Vasquez, was Bolimo Armas and their family.
( 25 Q As part of increasing the price of that property, you
I
Vol. 9-151
Padreda - Cross -
1 told us YOU agreed to pay, through circular means, $40,000
( 2 or something to that effect for a commisSion to get to help
3 yOU rezone that property, correct?
4 A No, sir.
S Q Tell me what YOU did.
6 A We bought the property and through my CPA, I shared that
7 Mr. Fmilio Cruz would like to buy the property if the
8 property is rezoned commercial.
9 The other 3 corners of the southwest-- of 114th
10 Avenue and Flagler Street are already zoned commercial.
11 We went to see Emilio Cruz; Mr. Manny Vasquez and
12 myself, we went to see Emilio Cruz at his office, and we
13 discussed the price.
L 14 He said that he would come bock to us with the
15 proposal--I am sorry--with the controct. Time passed, and
16 he never show UP with the contract.
17 At one point, 3 or four months r Mr. Valdez come to
18 my office and told me that through his daughter, who is a
19 real estate salesman, he think he can help me to sell the
20 property to the people who owns the trailer pork.
21 Furthermore, he told me that he can talk to Mr--
22 not Cruz--the partner of the Cruz there, on the trailer
23 pork, in order to have people who speaK in the zoning
24 hearing in our favor.
( 25 Q What did he wont in exchange?
I
Vol. 9-152
Padreda - Cross -
1 A The standard broker commission.
( 2 a Which was 40,OOO?
3 A Was about three percent. 40,000.
4 a Sergio Pereira knew nothing about your dealings with
5 him?
6 A No, sir.
7 Q He was absolutely, completely foreign to those dealings
8 yOU had?
9 A To the best of my knowledge, yes, sir.
10 Q He was completely away?
11 A He was completely away for that.
12 a Although he was a partner, he did not know anything
13 about that?
L 14 A He knew nothing about Jorge Voldez. He would know about
15 Emilio Cruz.
16 Q He was portner with you. He did not know anything about
I
17 thot?
18 A No.
19 Q Did YOU also, pursuant to immunity, so yOU would not be
20 prosecuted concerning this 50,000 YOU told us about, that
21 you put UP to change a man's vote so Sergio Pereira could be
22 city manager, I believe. I think that was in Morch of 1.985.
23 Do yOU recoIl that?
24 A Yes.
I
Vol. 9-153
Padredo - Cross -
1 his nome, what was the commissioners nome?
( 2 A Demetrio Perez.
3 Q Was voting for somebody else?
4 A Two times.
5 Q City manager, correct?
6 A That's correct.
11
7 Q In order to switch his vote, how did he happen to
8 contact you?
9 A Sir, I think YOU misunderstand what J said in the
10 beginning.
11 Q I thought YOU mode on agreement for him to switch his
12 vote, it was not needed?
13 A May I put the record straight.
L 14 Q Certainly. You can answer the question, yes, sir.
15 A I hod a call from 0 lawyer called Alberto Cardinas, to
16 gO to his office.
I
17 Q When?
18 A Before the voting.
19 Q March of '85, something like that?
20 A Two, three days, four days before the voting dote.
21 Q The voting was on 0 Monday or Tuesday?
22 A I don't recoIl. It was early in the commission heDring,
23 Tuesday, Thursday. I don't recall the date.
24 Q Did yOU go to the meeting on a week day?
c 25 A I went to Alberto Cardinas office.
I
Vol. 9-154
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q On a weekday; not on a weekend?
( 2 A On a week dote.
3 Q Week; w-e-e-k?
4 A Yes.
5 Q I am trying to get it in my mind. Then what happened?
6 A Demetrio Perez was there. Demetrio Perez said he had a
7 commitment to vote for Cesar Odio. In order to change his
8 vote, he would like to know what we can do in order to raise
9 money for his campaign.
10 Q That was coming UP in November?
11 A In November.
12 Q Of this year or a year further up? Some November?
13 A I cannot remember. I think it was '85. It was
14 November, six months awoy. At that time we were discussing,
15 and what he wont to be sure that we come with the banquet.
16 with a fund raising cocKtail party to raise ex amount of
I
17 money.
18 And then he said he want to be sure that that
19 money would be held in escrow until the time the fund
20 raising is done. And whatever money was not--whatever money
21 was not raised, the difference would be paid by that.
22 Q That 50,000?
23 A That's correct.
24 Q That yoU said was you, Cardinos?
25 A Mr. Montovaro.
I
Vol. 9-155
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q And Perez. all the in the same office?
( 2 A In the same office was Alberto Cardinas, Demetrio Perez
3 and myself.
4 Q You agreed at that time to raise fifty thousand for his
5 campaign?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q You agreed to get 50.000 in cash, currency, and put it
8 in escrow?
9 A I agreed to Alberto Cardinas to gO to the Alberto
10 Cardlnas bank and request a loan, and put it 1n Alberto
11 Cardinas trust account.
12 Q You borrowed $50,OOO?
13 A $50,000.
L 14 Q Put it in a trust account?
15 A Trust account.
16 Q That was to guarantee that you would raise the money at
I
17 the campaign that was coming up?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q It came to pass that Sergio Pereira was elected by the
20 commission without even needing Mr. Perez' vote, correct?
21 A That's correct.
22 Q Sergio Pereira did not know one damn thing about this,
23 did he?
24 A No, sir.
25 Q You were dOing this because he was a friend?
I
Vol, 9-156
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes, sir.
I
Vol. 9-158
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q Is he the first one to Camilo Padreda?
2 A Yes.
3 Q That is not to the contractor; that is to you?
4 A Yes.
5 Q 20,000?
6 A Yes,
7 Q The second one is to the real estate office?
8 A Yes.
9 Q September 4 for the 80,000, 1986; September 6---
10 MR, CHAYKIN: I object, Improper predicate;
11 refreshing the recollection or is he reading from the
12 document?
13 MR, HOGAN: I am trying to save time.
14 THE COURT: Objection overruled. Go ahead,
15 Q Do yOU recall no~ if it was September 4th and September
16 6. 1986, that the two checks were written?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Sergio Pereira is a personal friend of yours, is he not?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q Did it ever enter your mind that the two things that yoU
21 did involving him might get him in trouble?
22 A No, sir.
23 Q No 1 sir?
24 A No. I say no.
( 25 Q You learned the bids on EsperanzQ were September 1982;
I
Vol. 9-159
Padreda - Cross -
1 that's when the bids come in, thot bid proposal YOU have in
( 2 front of YOU, that we have been through; YOU remember, the
3 one YOU signed?
4 A Yes.
5 Q September 30th, 1982?
6 A Yes.
7 Q You were here?
8 A I don't know if I was here. I was in Texas.
9 Q Your wife swore YOU were here?
10 A My wife--I think my wife--she knows my signature. She
11 knows very well my signature.
12 Q Okay. Do yOU for what subscribed and sworn to before me
13 this--
14 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection. Repetitious.
15 THE COURT: Sustained. It is repetitious.
In Q Your best recollection is YOU were in Texas?
17 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection.
18 THE COURT: Objection sustained.
19 MR. HOGAN: Con I write Texas on the board?
20 THE COURT: You better not ask him.
21 MR. HOGAN: Moy I write Texas on the board?
22 THE COURT: Yes.
23 Q Had YOU had anything to do prior to September 30th,
24 1982, with the paperwork? Had yoU read anything, looked ot
( 25 anything?
I
Vol. 9-160
Podreda - Cross -
1 A I believe if YOU go over to this papers YOU will see
( 2 that Alfredo Osorio was the project manager in charge of the
3 bidding and the submitted everything.
4 Q Let me show YOU Government's exhibit 129 for
5 identification. All I asking you is: Do YOU Just put your
6 name on any letter thot is put 1n front of you?
7 A No.
8 Q You read them?
9 A Yes.
10 Q It is a two page document. September 1st, this letter,
11 do YOU see this letter? It is in evidence. It's signed by
12 you. Do YOU see that?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Camilo Padredo. I think YOU read it over before, and
15 YOU are asking them for additional information based upon
16 the prototype multiples is established on page 7.
I
17 Do YOU notice, sir, that the documents yOU picked
18 UP, whether it was picked up, told yOU that the land had
19 been preselected and thot the developer had to pay for the
20 land?
21 A That was one of the Question thot we have.
22 Q Did YOU read the documents?
23 A No, r have not read the documents. Mr. Osorio read the
24 document.
( 25 Q Therefore, yOU could not have a Question because yOU did
I
Vol. 9-161
Padreda - Cross -
1 not read the document?
( 2 A That's correct.
3 Q Who told YOU they had a Question?
4 A Mr. Osorio.
5 Q The project director told yOU he did not know whether
6 the cost of the land was included in the project?
7 A That is correct.
8 Q How long before?
9 A It have to be dote two, three days before.
10 Q I understand you where are in Texas probably a couple of
11 weeks out of every month, were yOU not?
12 A Yes.
13 Q This is 8 years, ago 9 years a90?
14 A That's correct.
15 Q You flew, did YOU not?
16 A Yes.
I
17 Q Bock and forth?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Airline tickets?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Where are they?
22 A Where whot?
23 Q The airline tickets. Did yoU submit them to your
24 company?
25 A Fight years 090, 9 years (190. I don't know. I distroy
I
Vol. 9-162
Padreda - Cross -
1 them. I moved 3 times already.
7 different things.
8 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection. Argumentative.
9 THE COURT: Objection sustained.
10 Q Is there any Kay YOU con honestly tell us, from your
11 independent recollection, from your independent
12 recollection, where YOU were in the Mayor's office, Julio
13 Castano's office, in Texas, wherever, during that time?
14 Can YOU tell us the day YOU signed this letter,
15 Government's exhibit 129 doted September 1st, were YOU in
16 Miami? Were YOU in Texas? Where Kere you?
I
17 A let me explain to YOU. I SOy the beginning, most of the
18 time that my office, I have to send a letter. They wont me
19 to sign the letter. They send the letter to Texas. Federal
20 Express.
21 Q Overnight?
22 A Yes. I sign it and sent it back.
23 Q That's two days?
24 A Can be two days. Can be one day.
( 25 Q You can handle your business from Texas?
I
Vol. 9-16S
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes.
I
Vol. 9-166
Pod redo - Cross -
1 Brownsville , Texas?
I
Vol. 9-168
Padreda - Cross -
( 2 FBI or the FBI was there at their request, because they know
3 there was money for this project, and it was David Perez
4 told Alfredo Osorio and Alfredo Osorio make the decision;
5 went to the board at that time and request the board that
6 the bid from Camilo Padreda, Contractor, Inc.
7 Q Had YOU rehearsed that answer?
8 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection.
9 THE COURT: Objection sustained.
10 MR. CHAYKIN: I move it be striken.
11 THE COURT: Motion as to strike is granted.
12 Q How many times had YOU given that answer in those words
13 before?
L 14 A How many times.
15 Q Have YOU ever over that answer with that gentleman right
16 there, who questioned YOU before? Did yOU gO over that
I
17 answer about what the mayor said?
18 A I believe so.
19 Q How many times?
20 A Maybe once. Maybe two.
21 Q In the Grand Jury?
22 A At the Grand Jury, and previous to that.
23 Q With the FBI?
24 A The FBI was there.
( 25 Q You went over with the FBI and with Mr. Chaykin , that
I
Val. 9-171
Padredo - Cross -
1 answer before YOU went to the Grand Jury, did YOU not?
( 2 A Yes.
3 Q Then yOU went over again in the Grand Jury, did YOU not?
4 A r went agoin.
5 Q You said that resPonse again?
6 A I don't understand your question. If YOU can clarify.
7 Q Where where were YOU on November 9th when the
8 evaluation--instead of a date, an evaluation teom met
9 November 8th and 9th, 1982? Were YOU in Texas?
10 A I was in Tallahassee the date that I--when I come from
11 Tallahassee I received a call from Texas about 5:30 in my
12 house; tell me that I had been indicted in Texas. That was
13 the night of the indictment. According to the record, it
14 was November the 9th.
15 Q You were in Miami?
16 A I was in Miami. I make phone calls, and I went to see
I
17 my lawyer that night.
18 Q You were in Miami?
19 A I was in Miami.
20 Q You went so see to see a lawyer that night?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q When did YOU learn of the results of the the evaluation
23 teom, if ever?
24 A I don't think I recall that to know what the evaluation
( 25 team was.
I
Vol. 9-172
Padredo - Cross -
1 Q You did not know where yOU stood?
( 2 A No.
3 Q When did you learn, if ever l that the roof had been
4 changed?
5 A The rood?
5 Q The roof in the prDPosal.
7 A The roof?
8 Q You can show us the page in there. You have been over
9 that. You had been over this document?
lQ A I was not over this document. This is maybe the second
11 or 3rd time I gO over this document.
12 Q Before with the Government?
13 A I say with the Government l once. I think Just one.
L 14 One; not twice. The roof was here. That was the problem
15 with the roof.
16 Q The problem was in the top part, right?
17 A The top port of the picture to the inside of the house.
18 Q Let's show what I am looking otl and what other problems
19 were there in this proposal?
20 A I have no ideo what other problem was.
21 Q Were changes made to that proposal?
22 A I have no ideo what other problems was or change was. I
23 was informed that was the roof. I was in Texas when I was
24 informed.
( 25 Q Informed what?
I
Val. 9-173
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Informed about the change that have to be mode.
( 2 Q That had to be at the end of the month or first week in
3 the month?
4 A Have to be sometime. One was the evaluation.
5 Q November 8th and 9th?
6 A November '89 I spent most of the time in Texas.
16
7 Q I am aware of that.
8 THE COURT: Counsel, don't make responses.
9 Q If I take this away, tell me whpn you first met with
10 Julio Castano.
11 A Maybe 1979.
12 Q That was while he was with the City of Miami, was it
13 not?
14 A Yeah.
15 Q He was a strong patriotic Cuban American, was he not?
16 A (orrect.
17 Q Very forceful; somewhat stubborn, hard headed?
18 A Good veteran.
19 Q I beg your pardon.
20 A He was a veteran.
21 Q He had been in Vietnam. He was wounded. He was on 60
22 percent disability?
23 A Disability.
24 Q A little crazy sometimes?
25 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection.
I
Vol. 9-174
Padredo - Cross -
1 THf COURT: Sustained.
I
Vol. 9-175
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Have to be after that, Maybe the 11th or the 12th.
I
Vol. 9-176
Padreda - Cross -
1 A To pick UP the papers?
( 2 Q Yes.
3 A I don't think so.
4 Q Was that the date of reference YOU used? Do YOU
5 understand my date of reference for establtshing when YOU
I
Vo]. 9-177
Pod redo - Cross -
1 Q Where were YOU, sir~ at home or in your---
2 A My office.
3 Q It was sometime in the morning or afternoon? Can YOU
4 tell us which?
5 A After eleven O'ClOCK. Have to be. Maybe it was in the
6 morning.
7 Q It hod not happened---
8 THE COURT: Rephrase your question.
9 Q That hod not happened before, hod 1tl that Mr. Castano
10 called yOU and soid--- Did he call YOU Camilo?
11 A Yes.
12 Q ·Come over to the office ? H
13 A Yes.
L 14 Q You went right OWOy?
15 A Maybe on hour, two hours or maybe after 10 minutes. I
16 don't recall.
I
17 Q He did not tell YOU what he wonted l on the telephone?
18 A No, he did not.
19 Q Did YOU call the mayor and sOY, "why is this gUY colling
, 24
25
Q When YOU got there, YOU went to his office.
have a secretory, or did YOU ask to see the secretary?
He did not
I
Vol. 9-178
Padreda - Cross -
1 A I don't recoIl if he hod a secretory or not. I remember
-
( 2 go to the hallway, to the right, to the end of his office.
3 Q What did he SOy? "Hello?" Exchanged pleasantries?
4 A I have no recollection of what he said to soy hello to
5 me or good morning or good afternoon, Mr. Padreda, but I
6 remember the conversation that he was told me that he would
7 try to help me 1n the Esperanza Project; that he would do
17
8 his best, that he is going to talk to the people in the
9 housing authority in my behalf, and at the end of the
10 conversation he also told me that he is looking for to buy a
11 car, and he need the financing to buy a car.
12 Q How long wos the conversation?
13 A It lasted about a half hour; maybe 45 minutes.
L 14 Q Tell me what yOU said during that half hour.
15 A I appreciate what yoU are doing, and I appreciate that
16 YOU are helping me to get this project.
I
17 Q That is like two, 3 minutes. What else was said?
18 A Maybe we are talking about baseball. I don't remember.
19 I specifically remember it was two things.
20 Q It lasted a half hour.
21 A Maybe 40 minutes. Maybe 30 minutes. Maybe 15 minutes.
22 Q After yoU got out of there. YOU went right to the
23 Mayor's office?
24 A Yes.
( 25 Q He could not see you right away?
I
Vol. 9-179
Padreda - Cross -
1 A I think I was waiting there for a few minutes.
( 2 Q Five minutes?
3 A 10 minutes.
4 Q You went in?
5 A I went in.
6 Q He was---
7 A He wos at the meeting.
8 Q He was at a meeting?
9 A Yes.
10 Q With whom?
11 A I don't know.
12 Q People?
13 A There was people there. Meeting with the people.
L 14 Q Men and women?
15 A No. I have no idea. We met at the conference room.
16 Q Which is where?
I
17 A Next to his office.
18 Q Did you close the door?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Did YOU ask for it to be in private. or did he toke YOU
21 in there?
22 A He was busy there.
23 Q How long was that conversation?
24 A At the most 3, four minutes.
25 Q You just relate the best YOU can what YOU said to the
I
Vol. 9-180
Padreda - Cross -
1 mayor and what the maYor said to you.
2 A The mayor just came from the Castano office. He told me
3 he will help me to get all this--helping to get the
4 Esperanza Project , and at the end of the conversation he
5 told me he was looKing to help in the finance the 20 / 000
6 Mercedes.
7 Q This was with the mayor?
8 A The mayor. The mayor was a little pissed off. He told
9 me it's UP to him. That is his problem. He said he knows
10 what he is doing. That is his problem.
11 Q That was in Spanish?
12 A That was in Spanish, yes.
13 Q HThat is his problem. H How does that translate in
L 14 Spanish? What would YOU say?
15 A Esa su problema, domio.
16 Q It's not my problem. It is your problem. Your problem?
17 A Sir. YOU say how is it translated. It's translated the
18 the mayor would tell me that his problem. No my problem.
19 That's the translation.
20 Q That is Castano's problem?
21 A That's correct.
22 Q Not my problem?
23 A That's correct.
24 Q Did he ever discuss Your problem?
( 25 A He discuss my problem?
I
Vol. 9-181
Pod redo - Cross -
1 Q Yes.
( 2 A No.
3 Q The 20.000 was for he needed financing for a Mercedes,
4 correct?
5 A That's what he said.
6 Q That was the extent of your conversations with Castano
7 until when?
8 A After that I had not recalled that Castano called me
9 anymore and talked to me anymore.
10 Q Did YOU ever talk to him again?
11 A I don't recall.
12 Q Were YOU at the meeting of contractors on September 10.
13 1982. when they went over the project and asked questions.
L 14 contractors asked questions?
15 A No. I was not.
16 a You were not?
I
17 A I was not there.
18 Q But the best of your recollection YOU were in town?
19 A Yes. sir.
20 Q Let me show YOU Government's exhibit 107. which has been
21 identified, has been admitted as a Sign 1n sheet for
22 September 10. 1982.
23 MR. CHAYKIN: The date of the meeting has never
24 been established. That was a sign it Of---
( 25 MR. HOGAN: The exhibit list says 9A and 10. 1
I
Vol. 9-182
Padreda - Cross -
1 was relying on the Government exhibit list.
( 2 MR. CHAYKIN: That is the exhibit list.
3 Q Let me show YOu--con YOU tell me, have yoU ever seen a
4 sign in sheet like that, speaking of this exhibit?
5 A Yes.
o Q Is that YOur contracting company?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Is that your writing?
9 A No.
10 Q Whose writing is that?
11 A Mr. Osorio.
12 Q Osorio was at the meeting on September 10 or whenever
13 it's established?
14 A I don't know. I presume he was the one who draw this.
15 That is not my handwriting.
16 Q Assume that was September 10. That would have been the
17 day you were also at City Hall. Would it not?
18 A Maybe I was there the 9th, 10th or Ith. At what time
19 was that meeting? At what time was that?
20 Q I can't answer a question.
21 THE COURT: Just wait for the next question.
22 Q Did there ever come a time yoU knew, speaking of you,
23 YOU as the person who put this project together with your
24 partners, not the nuts and bolts, but the Camilo Padreda
25 contractors, did there ever come a time yOU knew before
Vol. 9-183
Padredo - Cross -
1 December 13th whether the land cost hod to be included in
2 the cost?
3 A No, sir.
4 Q As of the fino] day when the project was given to Fmmer,
5 YOU never knew whether that included the land cost or it did
6 not include it?
7 A I don't believe so.
8 Q Before YOU is the proposal that your company submitted,
9 correct?
10 A A hum.
11 Q Do YOU see it there?
12 A Here it is.
13 Q That is exhibit number 106, is it not?
14 A Yes.
1.8
15 Q You are familiar with a roof design. Can YOU tell us,
16 sir, where the indication in here is that YOU were in
17 partnership with anybody? Do YOU understand my Question?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Will yoU show us that, please. First, I refer yOU to
20 page 6.
21 A All my partners resumes are here. Port of this
22 proposal.
23 Q What page is that on?
24 A 20. 48. 25. Developers.
(.,.
25 Q Where does it SOy they are your partners? I see Mr .
I
Vol. 9-184
Podreda - Cross -
1 Osorio's resume.
( 2 A Yes.
3 Q Where does it soy he is your portner?
4 A In the page 20. 48. 14 say---
5 Q Let me go bock. 20. 48. 14.
6 A Say developers and experience. No just one developer.
7 Developers. And experience.
8 Q Developers, HUD experience.
9 A Developers, HUn experience. Developers. No developer.
10 Q Down below it says developer? And it says Carnilo A.
11 Padreda?
12 A That's the name of the company. We have a joint venture
13 agreement for the project.
L 14 Q Did yOU ever put on the certificate of prior
15 participation anything having to do with these people being
16 your partners?
17 A I think it was oot--1 think it was not request by the
18 Dade County HUD.
19 Q How about the HUD--did YOU read the HUD-- How about the
20 HUD form? Did YOU read it where it says list 011
21 associates, partners?
22 A I don't have in front of me. If J see I can tell YOU.
I
Vol. 9-186
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q The form was prepared by him?
2 A By him.
3 Q Fine. Do YOU know what participation Alfredo Osorio had
4 in this project?
5 A 25 percent.
6 Q And Sacoso?
7 A 25 percent.
8 Q Your other portner,
9 A 25 percent.
10 Q Where in any document you filed with this project, does
11 it SOy that?
12 A I don't know.
13 Q Have YOU ever seen any document where it says that?
14 A I don't know,
15 Q Have YOU ever disclosed they were your partners?
16 A No. I don't know. The paper was prepared, Every paper
17 down here was prepared by Alfredo Osorio,
18 Q By somebody else?
19 A Yes, because I was in Texas most of the time.
20 Q I agree with YOU sir.
21 MR. CHAYKIN: Objectj.on.
22 THE COURT: Counsel, stop making statements about
23 yOU agree with him or don't agree with him.
24 MR. HOGAN: I apologize. I am having a little
25 trouble.
Vol. 9-187
Podreda - Cross -
1 THE COURT: I understand. I am giving YOU all the
( 2 leeway necessarily.
3 a You were in Texas most of the time, correct?
4 A That's correct.
5 a Do YOU have the form in front of you?
6 A Yes.
7 a look at the back of the first page; your signature
8 appears, back side. Do YOU see what is shown as a list of
9 previous projects in section 8 contracts?
10 A Yes.
11 a You put down Camilo Podredo, general contractor, HUD
12 project dated July---
13 A I am sorry, counsel.
14 Q Dated July '80 through October '8l, correct? The top
15 one.
16 A Yes.
I
17 Q Were they your partners in that project in 1980?
18 A Yes.
19 a Camilo Padreda, General Contractors, is the same one HUn
20 project 811, January '81 through January '82, 75 units.
21 That was a project YO did in Miami, Florida, for H.U.D.
22 Were they your partners in that project?
23 A Yes, they were.
24 Q Were they all Nicaraguans?
25 A Yes, they were.
I
Vol. 9-188
Padreda - Cross -
-
( 25 MR. CHAYKIN: The only question I have does
I
Vol. 9-189
Padreda - Cross -
J.9 1 counsel have much more after that?
2 MR. HOGAN: I have on hour and a half, two hours.
3 THE COURT: Let's see how we go.
4 MR. HOGAN: I am physically tired.
5 THE COURT: I will give YOU a little surprise.
6 (SIDEBAR CONFFRFNCE CONCLUDED)
7 BY MR. HOGAN:
8 Q Were YOU in pain on December 14, 1982?
9 A I don't understand your Question.
10 Q Were yOU in pain on December 14, 1982?
11 A That's correct.
12 Q Did yoU on that day have a meeting with your partners?
13 A Yes, sir.
L 14 Q Where was it held?
15 A At the office.
16 Q Who was present?
I
17 A All the partners.
18 Q Yourself, Mr. Cardoso, Mr. Osorio and Mr. Socoso, right?
19 A I believe so, yes.
20 Q Right?
21 A Yes.
22 Q What did yoU discuss?
23 A Alfredo Osorio discussed the problem that we have the
24 night before.
( 25 Q What did he say?
I
Vol. 9-190
Padreda - Cross -
1 A That the Fmmer people talked to David Perez and David
2 Perez told him that the FBI was there investigating the
3 project r and he make the decision to withdrew from the
4 project.
5 Q Was that in the daytime?
6 A When?
7 Q When yoU hod the meeting in your office with your
8 partner?
9 A Yes.
10 Q How long was the meeting?
11 A I don't recall , but it was maybe an hourI two hour
12 meeting.
13 Q What else did YOU discuss?
L 14 A All the problems that we were trying to do.
15 Q Did YOU make UP a memorandum of that meeting?
16 A Mr. Sacasa always make memorandums of the meeting;
I
17 always make up a memo to the file.
18 Q Of the meeting?
19 A Of the meetings or anything.
20 Q Did he make a memorandum?
21 A Yes. He did. He did make a memorandum.
22 Q You have seen that memorandum?
23 A Yes r I see the memorandum. I read the memorandum.
24 Q And read it?
( 25 A Yes.
I
Vol. 9-191
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q Can YOU tell me, sir, where the file is that that
( 2 memorandum come from?
3 A I don't have any ideo.
4 Q How did YOU happen to get it?
5 A I no have any idea. I got two or three papers, and one
6 of the papers that was when it was the subpoena in my office
7 that was there. I don't know.
8 Q When was that?
9 A Two years or one year ago. Somethj.ng like that.
10 Q Two years ago the Government---
11 A One year. Maybe one year.
12 Q One year ago?
13 A Maybe.
L 14 Q So that would have been--- Do you have any independent
15 recollection of when it was?
16 A The papers and the banks statement and everything hod
17 been subpoenaed for all the Government agencies, including
18 YOU.
19 Q I have not subpoenaed YOU until after April of 1990.
20 A I don't Soy the dote.
21 Q I thought yoU said a year ago?
22 A Everything had been subpoenaed. Now, I don't recall.
23 Q Listen to my question. There is a memorandum of a
24 meeting of December 14, 1990 that YOU tell us a dead man
< 25 mode, right?
Vol. 9-192
Padreda - Cross -
1 A A hum.
( 2 Q Correct?
3 A Yes.
4 Q You have had an opportunity to read that memorandum,
5 have YOU not?
6 A Yes, I have been reading that.
7 Q That is the only memorandum in existence, from your
8 files, is it not?
9 A In that for that project?
10 Q Yes, for that project.
11 A Yes.
12 Q The only one?
13 A Because all the documents was keep by the Socoso grouPJ
L 14 because I move out of the office after my indictment in
15 Texas, and two or three months after I desired to move my
16 office alone and no gO do any other business with them, and
I
17 everything was keep there at their office.
18 Q Except this memorandum?
19 A Except the memorandum and except some other memos in
20 other respect.
21 Q Where are they?
22 A That be in the new joint venture agreement and the
23 project in Texas.
24 Q The Texas agreement?
25 A Yes.
I
Vol. 9-J93
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q The only dockuments YOU had in Fsperanza was the
I
Vol. 9-194
Padreda - tross -
1 appropriately.
I
Vol. 9-195
Podredo - Cross -
1 MR. CHAYKIN: Objection. Argumentative.
I
Vol. 9-196
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes. I said to the other partners that Osorio come to
I
Vol. 9-197
Padredo - Cross -
1 A Yes.
I
Vol. 9-198
Padreda - Cross -
1 A I no remember if I went before this meeting to the
2 mayor's house, or after the meeting to the mayor's house. I
I
Vol. 9-199
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q Who rDn the meeting?
2 A Sir.
(
3 Q Who ron the meeting? Who chaired the meeting. Who W(JS
4 in charge?
5 A Always Mr. Sacaso.
6 Q Who took the notes?
7 A Mr. Sacasa.
8 Q In longhand?
9 A Yes.
10 Q In Spanish? Do YOU speak Spanish?
11 A I don't know what we got of this or whatever. He was
12 the one who did this.
13 Q What was his native language?
L 14 A Mr. Socasa?
15 Q Yes.
1
16 A He was on engineer.
I
17 Q What native language? What was his native language?
18 A Both, very well.
19 Q He was born in England?
20 A No. He was born in ~icaragua, was raised down here and
21 was married, I believe.
22 Q Did the four of YOU speak Spanish or Fnglish?
23 A Spanish.
24 Q Can YOU tell me then why the memorandum is in Fng]ish?
25 A You have to find out everything was in English.
I
Vol. 9-200
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q He is dead?
I
Vol. 9-201
Podredo - Cross -
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VO~L7U~ME)10 NOV ~1991 \
11
12 TRANSCRIPT OF TRIAL
I . c; . t rt ( L fv"S
e l L It u . S. OIS T. c r .
~. D . 0 : , l ' .. "" ''''' I
13 BEFORE THE HONORABLE JAMES W. KEHOE
and a Jury
14
15
16 APPEARANCES :
17
For the Plaintiff : STEVEN CHAYKIN , ESQ .
18 BRUCE UDOLF, ESQ .
19
For the Defendant : JAMES J. HOGAN , ESQ .
20 EVELYN GREER, ESQ.
21
22
23
Court Reporter : PAUL HAFERLING ~"~
301 North Miami Avenue ;or
Miami , Florida 3312
24
?7""'~
• 25
I
1 ~R. HOGAN: I mar~ed for identi f ication exhibit
-
\. 2 39A a memorandum of a meeting December 14. 1982 . between ~r .
I
Vnl In-~
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Vnl 1 n_l.
Padreda - Cros s -
1 MR . CHAYKIN : I think he answered . Objection .
( 2 THE COURT : Overruled . Go ahead . You are tal king
3 about the house in the picture?
4 Q The house in the picture , yes .
5 A I don · t visualize exactly.
6 Q When yOU said you think YOU might , I suppose YOU have
7 been with Mr. Pereira and Mr. Martinez on other occasions ?
8 A Yes .
9 Q Political functions, parties , that type of thing?
10 A Yes .
11 Q We know yOU have seen them together . Did yoU ever
12 recall being at--- Strike that .
13 Let me get the dote , the best you recall , sir , was
14 the date that you first went to the Mayor ' s house, the house
15 I showed yOU in the picture?
16 That dote , as I recall your testimony correctlY ,
17 was the dote right after you met with Your partners; your
18 partners agreed to pay and YOU went to tell the mayor . Do
19 YOU recall that?
20 A I recall that, but I didn·t Soy it was the first dote I
21 hod been to the Mayor ' S house .
22 Q I thought on direct YOU said it was the first dote YOU
23 hod been there?
24 A No , sir .
25 Q You hod been there before that time ?
I
"" ,n_<
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes ,
( 2 Q HOH many occasions?
3 A Maybe tHO , No more than tHo times ,
4 Q The tHO times YOU Here there before that , Has that in
5 1982 , in the same year?
6 A I don't recall,
7 Q Can YOU tell us, with any degree of certainty, Hhen YOU
8 first Hent to the MaYor ' s house, the one I have Just shoHn
9 YOU in the picture?
10 A No , I don't recall Hhen it Has the first time I Has
11 there,
12 Q The first time YOU Hent to the Mayor ' s house, did he
13 have a pool in the bac~yard?
14 A I don ' t thin~ the first time I Hent to the Mayor ' s
15 house, I Hent to the back of his house , I Just sitting in
16 the dining room ,
17 Q Can YOU tell the JurY, Hith some degree of certainty,
18 the time YOU Hent to the Mayor ' s house , and told him that
19 your partners agreed to the payment? Do you remember
20 testifying to that?
21 What date Has that?
22 A I don ' t recall the date,
23 Q What month?
24 A September ,
(
25 Q September?
I
Padredo - Cross -
1 A September . before the bidding. the open bidding for that
( 2 project. Esperanzo .
3 Q Before the open bidding?
4 A Aha .
5 Q 150 thousand was agreed was in September. 1982. When
6 yoU say the open bidding . are you talking about when the
7 package Has picked UP . when the evaluation . when the bids
8 were opened?
9 What are YOU talking about?
10 A When the bid has the be presented .
11 Q That was Septembe r 30th . Can YOU tell us . as best YOU
12 can recoil. had you gone before September 30th YOU Here
13 there?
14 A Can be a week .
15 Q A week?
16 A Can be.
17 Q September 25th . 26th . 24th?
18 A 20th . 19th. 18th ,
19 Q Between the 18th and the 25th?
20 A Between the 18th and the 25th .
2
21 Q 18th and the 25th .
22 After the meeting with your pa r tners . this meeting
23 at the "oyor's house Has at night . was it not?
24 A No . I think it was not the night.
25 Q You think it was or was not?
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Vnl 1 n_7
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Was not .
( 2 Q Do you recall, sir, testifying under oath before a
3 Federal Grand Jury on October 23, 19901 Mr. Chaykin was
4 asking YOU questions . You had sworn to tell the truth. You
5 were there. Do YOU recall that?
6 A Yes . I recall that .
7 Q May I ask YOU if YOU recall these Questions and answers :
8 Page 24.
9 Was it your thinking that you and your partners
10 would they then have to cash a check at the bank or convert
11 it to cash?
12 ANSWER: We never discussed that issue. I went to
13 my partners . I told my partners that what the request was.
14 And we had a meeting. What happened with Mr . Sacasa and Mr.
15 Osorio was we hod a meeting, and we discussed that 150,000.
16 We never come with the conviction of whether or
17 not we were going to paYor the way we were going to pay.
18 QUESTION: What was your understanding from that
19 and the contents of your conversation with Raul Martinez?
20 What would have happened if yOU did not pay?
21 I don't think I would have got the proJect.
22 Skipping .
23 If you wanted the proJect, YOU have to pay; is
24 that your question?
25 QUESTION : Yes.
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Padreda - Cross -
1 ANSWER: Okay .
( 2 QUESTION : In order for you ta pay it , you would
3 have to include that somehow in your cast?
4 ANSWER: That ' s correct .
5 QUESTION: Did your partners agree to that
6 proposal?
7 ANSWER : My partners agreed to that proposal.
8 Q That was the meeting with your partners?
9 A That·s correct .
10 QUESTION : As a result , did there come a time when
11 YOU then had another meeting with Raul Martinez to advise
12 him about this?
13 ANSWER : The date we would have the meeting with
14 my partners, I went bock to Martinez' house that night,
15 first the night of the meeting, and I told him my partners
16 agreed ta do that .
17 You swore to that before---
18 A Yes.
19 Q Does that refresh your recollection that this meeting
20 what was at night?
21 A The meeting was at night. yes.
22 Q At this meeting, when you went to that house that I have
23 shown you in the picture , I believe yOU testi tied that I'Ir ,
24 Cardona was there . Is that correct ; or was he?
25 A Cardona was in the back of the house: that ' s correct ,
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q Cardona?
( 2 A Has in the house , yes .
3 Q Hhere?
4 A He was in the rear of the house .
5 Q Rear of the house?
6 A Yes .
7 Q I think you told us "r . Cardona was doing remodeling in
8 the house?
9 A He was not doing it himself , but remodeling was dane or
10 was doing it at that time .
11 Q He was a supervisor : he was not pointing, himself?
12 A That ' s correct.
13 Q I think you also told us at that first meeting "r.
14 Cardona and the mayor showed yoU what they were doing,
15 extending the Florida Room or putting in additional things .
16 There were people working in the house . You can see the
17 tools, correct?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q September 30 , 1982, were the bids. You testified that
20 yOU were in Texas that day. Then when I showed you t he
21 document that your wife swore you testified to beforehand ,
22 yOU testified yOU might be he re . Your best recollection is
23 yOU don · t know where YOU were?
24 A "y recollection Is that I was in Texas . I signed the
• 25 papers before I went to Texas , and date it and the papers
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 was prepared by Alfredo Osorl0 , and I slgn lt before I left .
( 2 Q Your wlfe swore to It?
3 A That ' s correct .
4 Q You are ln Texas when the blds were over?
5 A When the deal was open or when the deal was presented?
6 Q When the blds were opened, where were YOU when the blds
7 were opened?
8 A I don ' t recall when the blds was open. When the blds
9 was presented September 30th I was ln sesslon .
10 Q You actually dld not have very much to do wlth thls
11 proJect. You were worrled about Texas . Texas was the
12 proJect yOU were supervlslng yourself, were you not?
13 A That ' s correct.
14 Q Whether when yOU talked to your partners about the 150 ,
15 lt was to Osorl0. Sacosa was not there , the 3rd partner?
16 A No. I don't thlnk--I don ' t thlnk he was there.
17 Q The next tlme between September 18th , 25th, 1982 , and
18 the wlthdrowal of your proposal, you dld not , between those
19 dates , gO to the ~ayor ' s house, the wlthdrawal of the
20 proposal was December 13th. I thlnk I sold December , but
21 December 13th, 1982 . That has been establlshed that ' s the
22 dates of the meetlng?
23 A That's correct.
24 Q Between these dates you hod not been to the ~ayor's
I
Vn1 10_11
Padreda - Cross -
1 A I don ' t recall ,
,( 2 Q Had YOU talked to the mayor between September 18. 1985,
3 and YOU agreed YOU said and after this meeting?
4 A My recollection I talked to the mayor on the phone,
5 Q When?
6 A After I was indicted,
7 Q You were indicted--the indictment reads November 9th .
8 1982, So between November 9th and December 13th YOU think
9 YOU talked to the mayor?
10 A Yes ,
11 Q Did YOU call him?
12 A I don't recall if I called him or if he called me,
13 Q Where were you?
14 A I was in Miami, I was in Texas, I don't recall exactly
15 where I was,
16 Q You don't recall where you were?
17 A No,
18 Q You don't know who called who?
19 A No , I don ' t remember,
20 Q Do yoU have an independent recollection today of the
21 conversation?
22 A No . I have not ,
23 Q So the best you can tell us there was a phone
24 conversation in that period of time?
25 A I believe so,
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q After the propo sal was withdrawn on December 13th, 1982,
( 2 YOU had told us and the Government has shown YOU you r
3 hospital records that YOU went to the hospital on December
4 15th, 1982 . You were operated r ight after that on the 16th,
5 were yoU not?
6 A 16th or 17th .
7 Q Showing YOU Government · s Exhibit 84 for identification ,
8 shows yOU a discharge , does it not , on the 20th?
9 A Correct.
10 Q The Government pointed out to you there was a place that
11 showed the dotes you Here admitted. You took these notes to
12 the Government, did YOU not?
13 A At their request .
14 Q The answer is , yes , at their request?
15 A At their request .
16 Q They did not get them from the hospital . You gave them
17 to them?
18 A They asked me to pick UP my records in the hospital .
19 Q This shows , sir , you were admitted December 15, 1982 ,
20 correct?
21 A Correct.
22 Q That is what I put UP there, hosPital , admitted .
23 Between the evening of December 13, after the
, 24 proposal was withdrawn, do yOU follow me?
~
25 A Yes .
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 a Between the evening of December 13th, when the proposal
( 2 was withdrawn , do YOU follow me , sir?
3 A Yes .
4 a Between the evening of December 13th when the proposal
5 was withdrawn , and the day YOU went to the hosPital,
6 December 15 , 1982, that would be the one date, the 14th?
7 A Correct .
8 a On December 14th , sir , YOU testified that you had a
9 meeting , did YOU not, with vour partners?
10 A Correct .
11 a That was 1n the doyt1me, was 1t not?
12 A Yes .
13 a That would be December 14, 1982 , meet1ng pa r tners. That
L 14 was, YOU told us , what came to be the memo, Defendant's
15 Exh1b1t 39 for ident1ficat1on, correct?
16 A Yes .
17 a You told us "r . Sacasa would have been the one who wrote
18 this memo?
19 A He always wr1te the memos.
20 a This is the onlv memo YOU provided to the Government, 1s
21 it not?
22 A That ' s correct .
23 a So we are talk1ng about the same th1ng?
24 A Yes .
25 a D1d vou gO back , sir, to the "avor ' s house, same house
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Vol 1n_1"
Padreda - Cross -
1 YOU went to here , after December 13th, and before that
( 2 meeting or after that meeting and before YOU went to the
3 hospital?
4 A As I said before, I no remember if it was December 13th
5 at night after I have a meeting with "r. Osorio at my house
6 or December 14, after having a meeting with my partners in
7 the office.
8 Q On either occasion , it was not at night?
9 A The 13th or 14th.
10 Q Either the 13th or 14th, it was at night?
11 A That ' s correct .
12 Q If it was the 13th, it was af ter the proposal was
13 withdrawn , was it not?
14 A Correct .
15 Q After Osorio came to your house?
16 A Yes , sir .
17 Q After he told YOU the proposal was withdrawn?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q If it was on the 14th , it would have been sometime 10 ,
20 10:30, eleven o' clock?
21 A I don ' t recall , but it have to be after eight .
22 Q After eight?
23 A A hum .
24 Q This is a day YOU were in extreme pain , were YOU not?
-
(
25 A I have been in pain for two or months .
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q The answer is yes?
2 A The answer is I have been in pain for two or months.
3 Q Were YOU in pain on December 13th is my question?
4 A The answer is, yes. I said I have been 1n pain for two
5 or three months .
6 Q You were still able to gO bock to Texas to ride on the
7 planes and gO into high altitude and do Your work, were YOU
8 not?
9 A That·s correct.
10 Q Were YOU under medication?
11 A Yes.
12 Q What were YOU taking?
13 A Something for the pain kill .
L
14 Q You were taking pain killers?
15 If it was on December 14th, what time at night was
16
17
that?
A Can be eight. Can be 9. Can be 7: 30. I don' t have a
I
18 recollection.
19 Q Seven thirty to nine?
20 A Seven thirty to nine.
21 Q I think YOU said eight to 9 p.m. at night. December
22 14th can be 7:30. What was the latest do you think it was?
23 A I don·t have a recollection from---
24 Q Seven thirty.
25 A To nine.
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Padreda - Cross -
1 Q At this meeting on December 14th or 13th. whichever . at
(4 2 night . you also testified I believe this Mr . Cardona was
3 present?
4 A Mr . Cardona was there.
5 Q That is Antonio Cardona?
6 A Antonio Cardona.
7 Q You had known him at thot time for 10 years?
8 A Yes. about 10 years.
9 Q You actually had done business with Vincente Leal when
10 they were partners in Miami concrete?
11 A That ' s correct .
12 Q Mr . Cardona was there. and where did the meeting between
13 yOU and I believe yoU said somebody else was there too?
14 A Yes,
15 Q Was that Mr. Gonzalez?
16 A I don't recall who it was,
17 Q Let me show yoU Government ' s exhibit number 79 . a
18 picture . Can yOU tell us. sir . who yoU recognized. if
19 anyone . in that picture?
20 A Antonio Cardona .
21 Q That ' s the man on the left . the bold headed man .
22 correct?
23 A Correct, I don ' t recall him . I think this was a lady
24 who worked at the housing authority .
25 Q Pat Casteel?
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Padreda - Cross -
1 A I don't recall the nome,
2 Q Lindo Loddo?
3 A I don't recall the name . And this is the director of
4 the housing authority .
5 Q The man who is seated?
6 A Yes.
7 Q This man?
8 A Right .
9 Q Joe Morganti .
10 A I know him .
11 Q And Cardona?
12 A Cardona.
c 13
14
Q
A
The others you don ' t recognize?
No .
15 Q When YOU went there, after Mr . Osorio talked to YOU,
16
17
when YOU went to the Moyor's house , it had to be after
Osorio talked to you?
I
18 A Co r rect .
19 Q Cardona was present and another man?
20 A Correct.
21 Q They showed YOU , again, the remodeling they had done?
22 A No .
23 Q There was no showing yoU around at that time?
24 A No , sir .
(
25 Q The meeting that occurred was in the what room?
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Padreda - Cross -
1 A Living room .
( 2 a That was the time YOU were bleeding?
3 A Yes , sir .
4 Q Do YOU recall saYing, "r have to gO to the hospital
5 right away "?
6 A Correct .
7 Q You were seated on the sofa?
8 A Correct .
9 Q Was Angela ~artinez there?
10 A -' Yes.
11 a Do YOU recall when yoU bled on the sofa , she said ,
12 "don · t worry about it; I will clean it up "?
13 A That ·s correct.
14 a Do yoU recall yoU were token out to the car by ~r.
15 ~artinez and put in the car ; ~ayor ~artinez helped YOU out
16 to the car?
17 A I can walk myself.
18 a I understand that.
19 A I don · t understand your Question . I have to be helped .
20 To help me?
21 Q Did he gO out with YOU to the car?
22 A ~aybe so .
23 a Was ~rs. ~artinez present when YOU were talking to the
24 mayor, or did she come in after YOU unfortunately had your
25 accident, with the sofa?
I
Vn 1 1 n-=l.ll.
Padreda - Cross -
A I think she was preparing coffee .
,
1
#
2 Q At that meeting , if I understand , YOU said that somebody
3 told yOU, why did yOU withdraw your proposal ; it was best
4 and you should have gone through with it?
5 A Will yoU repeat that question . I don't understand . I
6 am sorry,
7 Q It is my understanding you went there; you said, "I had
8 to withdraw the proposal "?
9 A That ' s correct .
10 Q In answer to that , YOU received an answer from one of
11 the people that were there , either ~r , Cardona , the other
12 person you said was from the housing authority or the mayor ,
13 Who said what?
14 A The proposal was the best proposal , And that I have the
15 vote to get awarded the proposal.
16
17
Q
A
To win?
To win ,
I
18 Q And yOU should not have withdrawn?
19 A That ' s correct .
20 Q Do YOU recall whether it was the unidentified person in
21 the housing authority that was there or whether it was Mr .
22 Cardona or whether it wos the mayor who said those words?
23 A I think it was the mayor ,
24 Q Were the other two present when he said that?
25 A Yes .
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Vnl In .• ?n ,
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q Was the money discussed?
( 2 A Never.
3 Q Then the money HQS not discussed between September 18,
4 25th? It Has never discussed again, Has it?
5 A That's correct. Never.
6 Q Let me ask you if you recall these questions and these
7 anSHers : Page 26. Do you recall during the course of this
8 time whether or not you met an individual by the name of
9 Antonio Cardona?
10 Your anSHer: Yes. I Has in his house .
11 QUESTION : ~r. Cordona yOU knew from various
12 business experiences prior to that?
13 ANSWER: 10 years before.
14 QUESTION: Do YOU recoIl seeing Mr . Cordona
15 present at Raul Martinez house at the time you Hent over
16 there to accept the bid?
17 Q Accept the bid. I assume you Here talking about accept
18 the 150 thousand?
19 A I SOH Mr . Cardona tHice in the house .
20 QUESTION: That is correct. Yes , sir. What did
21 yOU understand Mr. Cardona to be dOing there? Do yOU knoH
22 Hhat he Has doing?
23 ANSWER: Yeah, yeah . He Has remodeling Mr .
24 Martinez house.
25 QUESTION : Do you knoH that from talking to Raul
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Vn' , n_?1
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Padreda - Cross -
1 Martinez?
( 2 ANSWER : I SOH the Hork done and I SOH Cardona
3 there durlng the work .
4 Q When YOU SOH Cardona there dolng the Hork , that Has on
5 September 18 through 25 , 1982, Has lt not?
6 A Yes.
7 Q There were no people there he was supervlslng?
8 A That ·s correct .
5
9 Q You dld not actually see hlm dolng the work he told yOU
10 he was supervlslng?
11 A That · s what he told me .
12 Q Do YOU recall testlfYlng, slr , that before thls Federal
13 Grand Jury, under oath , that your meetlngs with Raul
14 Martinez all occurred ln August , September , October and
15 November?
16 A Yes, slr .
17 Q Was that a mlstake?
18 A The meetlng referring to Esperanza?
19 Q Yes.
20 A Occurred before September, ln Sectember and December .
21 Q Page eleven and 12 .
22 QUESTION: The meetlngs we are talking about wlth
23 Raul Martinez wlth respect to the Esperanza Project all
24 occurred ln August , September , October , November of that
(
25 year . Is that correct?
I
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Padreda - Cross -
1 Answer by you; That is correct .
( 2 Q Was that Just a mistake? You forgot December?
3 A That I forgot December , yes . That was a mistake.
4 Q What involvement, lf any. between September 30th, when
5 the blds went ln, and December 13th, when the proposal was
6 wlthdrawn, dld yOU have with the Esperanza ProJect?
7 A Will yOU repeat the Question, for clarification.
8 Q You are bock and forth to Texas?
9 A Correct .
10 Q You are worklng ln Texas wlth a large project?
11 A Correct .
12 Q You are in pain?
13 A Yes . sir .
14 Q You are taklng paln pills . All I am asking yOU , sir,
15 is: Can you tell me. ls it not true, between November 30
16 and December 13th, in-between that, YOU were lndicted
17 between those dates you were virtually not involved with
18 this project?
19 A That · s correct .
20 Q "organti or Cardona never brought the proposal to you to
21 be changed, did they?
22 A To myself?
23 Q To you?
24 A No.
25 Q You never said, "toke it to Osorlo? "
I
Un' ,n_"
Padreda - Cross -
1 A No ,
( 2 Q That did not happen?
3 A No,
4 Q You had nothing to do, ~hatsoever , Hith Morganti or
5 Cardona as far as the changing of the plans?
6 A No , sir , I Has informed--I ~as called to Texas , that
7 the package have come back to my office , in order to change
8 a pitch of the roof ,
9 Q That Has by Mr , Osorio Hho called you?
10 A That ' s correct,
11 Q Other than that YOU Here not involved?
12 A No , sir ,
13 Q Other than this Federal Grand Jury that you testified
14 under oath , the other meetings you had Here either these
15 prosecutor ' s or the Federal Bureau of Investigation or other
16 federal prosecutor's , Peter Outerbridge or other federal
17 prosecutor ' s, you told us consumed about 20 hours?
18 A In the Esperanza Project?
19 Q No , All your testimony?
20 A More than that,
21 Q Thirty hours? Can He say Esperanza Has about 20 hours?
22 A Maybe 12 ,
23 Q 12 hours?
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 understand, but is 12 or 13 a reasonable time?
( 2 A Can be .
3 Q During those times they were asking YOU questions and
4 you were giving them answers?
S A That·s correct.
6 Q Showing yOU documents?
7 A That·s correct.
8 Q You were going over your best recollection at that time
9 of what hod occurred. concerning Esperanza?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q That was not where YOU sot down Just one day, it was a
12 number of days for a number of hours each day, was it not?
13 A That·s correct.
14 Q Do yOU recall who you met with? Did yOU meet with Mr .
lS Chaykin?
16 A No at that meeting. I don·t think he was in the
17 meeting.
18 Q Did you Mr. Udolf?
19 A I think he was at one of the meetings or two. I don·t
20 recall .
21 Q Did you meet with this FBI agent here?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Was he by himself, or was he with somebody else?
24 A It was between five and seven.
• 2S Q People?
I
\/"\1 1 f'I. _"' -=:
Padreda - Cross -
1 A People.
•
\ 2 Q They were all aS king YOU questions?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And would yoU answer?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Before testifying last week. did you have an opportunity
7 sometime Just before testifying. if not the day . within a
8 couple of days . to sit down with Mr. Chaykin and gO over
9 your testimony?
10 A I believe I went to sit down with Mr. Chay kin about a
11 week and a half ago . maybe more than . I don · t recall . No .
12 Two days ago .
13 Q A week and a half?
14 A Maybe .
15 Q The night before you testified. did yOU talk to them?
16 A No . I wos sitting in the office waiting.
17 Q To testify?
18 A To Testify . And at 0 Quarter to five they tell me I can
19 gO home.
20 Q The last meeting before yOU testified . was that with Mr.
21 Chayk1n?
22 A That was with Mr . Chaykin .
23 Q He was alone or was Mr . Udolf with him. or the FBI?
24 A I think the 3 of them was there .
25 Q They were going over your testimony?
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 A That ' s correct .
2 Q You have not, have YOU, met ~ith anybody from the
3 defense? You have not met ~ith me, Mrs. Greer?
4 A No.
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 A No. To the best ever my knowledge, no, sir .
( 2 Q Let me show YOU these pictures . Are these different
3 pictures of Porto Del Sol?
4 A Yes .
5 Q Referring to 43 , 44 and 45 . When Porta Del Sol was
6 going to be opened there was on opening ceremony , was there
7 not?
8 A Yes .
9 Q You had invited Senator Paulo Hawkins to that opening?
10 A That·s correct .
11 Q You hod raised funds for Senator Hawkins, had yOU not?
12 A Yes .
13 Q That was one of the people you raised money for her
14 campaign?
15 A That's correct.
16 Q Was the mayor there?
17 A Yes .
18 Q Had you requested, as a favor for him , to come even
19 though he was a registered Democrat and Hawkins was a
20 Republican?
21 A Yes .
22 Q You mentioned on direct examination and organization
23 called the Latin Builders Association?
, 24 A If I mention?
• 25 Q On direct examination , if I recall correctly , you talked
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 about being one of the early formers of the Latin Building
{ 2 Association?
3 A That ' s correct ,
4 Q That was way back , was it not , in the early 1970 ' s?
5 A Sir ,
6 Q That was back in the early 1970 ' s, was it not?
7 A That ' s correct.
8 Q In the early 1970's , when yOU formed that organization ,
9 and I don ' t mean yOU did it alone , but it was formed for a
10 specific purpose, was it not?
11 A Yes , sir .
12 Q The purpose being that there were a number of , 1970 ,
13 ' 71 , '72, a number of small Latin contractors and workers?
14 A Subcontractors .
15 Q Subcontractors who were not getting a piece of the pie ,
16 were they?
17 A That was not the question . The reason they were--we
18 would call it harassment, because they don't have a person
19 or the qualified person on the Job ,
20 Q They were being harassed?
21 A Yes.
22 Q By building inspectors . City of ~iami could not get
23 permits; that type of thing?
24 A By inspectors ,
• 25 Q You knew , did you not, as well as the other members of
I
Vol In-7q
Padreda - Cross -
1 that organization that there is power in numbers?
-
... 2 A Will YOU repeat again that Question.
3 Q You got everybOdy together , and when I say YOU, I mean
4 the organization got together to lobby and have some
5 political clout, did YOU not?
6 A We meet in our office about six people, five , six
7 people .
8 Q To start?
9 A To start .
10 Q It grew to how big?
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q 1976 and 1977. How large was that organization at that
2 time?
3 A No more than 120 .
4 Q Even at that time YOU continued to gO to those meetings,
5 attend those meetings ond to be a supporting member , did you
6 not?
7 A Yes.
8 Q UP until Just recently or maybe still today?
9 A I am a member.
I
Podreda - Cross -
1 article in his newspaper on ~iami Concrete?
-
\ 2 A No, sir . I don't recall .
3 ~R . HOGAN : ~ark it for identification .
4 THE CLERK: Defendant ' s Exhibit 46 marked for
5 identification.
6 Q I show YOU Defendant's Exhibit for identification
7 newspaper El Sol De Hialeah, Hialeah , Florida , April 13th ,
8 1972 . See if YOU recall , after looking at that article,
9 that newspaper was in Spanish, was it not?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did YOU ever see that article on YOU and your company.
12 A I believe this type of ad was almost every newspaper in
13 the Spanish, the same type of support for Tony Garcia and
L
14 more or less the same type.
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 Association , do YOU ~now?
( 2 A I don ' t recall ,
3 Q How about Vincente Leal?
4 A I don't recall,
5 Q When ~r , Osorio come to see YOU after December 13th,
6 1982 , the meeting , did he tell YOU, in addition to having to
7 withdraw , that they hod discovered that you hod forgotten to
8 put in your plans a sewer that would have to travel from
9 Esperanza six or seven bloc~s that would cost four to
10 500,000 that was left out of the plans?
11 A No, I don't recall that ,
12 Q You never recall hearing that?
13 A No ,
14 Q Did YOU discuss that at the December 14 meeting , the one
15 YOU mode the memo of?
16 A No ,
17 Q When YOU went to the ~ayor's house one of these two
18 nights , do YOU recall, when YOU arrived , was ~r , Cardona
19 already present?
20 A I believe he was ,
21 Q He did not come in after you were there , He was there
22 when you got there?
23 A That's correct ,
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q I may have it wrong. Alphonso Ramos ?
( 2 A No, sir .
3 Q Do YOU recall, sir , sometime before YOU were indicted or
4 sometime before December 13th, 1982 , "r . Cardona coming to
5 your office ; seeing YOU , giving yOU the blueprints and the
6 proposal; you, directly? Do you recall that?
7 A No .
8 Q Never have?
9 A Not to me. Never was given to me .
10 Q Do you recall them coming and saying here they are and
11 you saying give those to Osorio?
12 A I don't recall that .
13 Q Did it happen?
14 A I don ' t think so.
15 Q Since yOU have been here , do you know what the boards
16 were? Do you know what I am talking about ; what boards? Do
17 yOU know what I am speaking of?
18 A Yes, sir .
19 Q Showing you Government ' s exhibit 127 , purporting to be
20 on artists rendering of Esperanza , did YOU ever see thct,
21 sir , before December 13 of 1982?
22 A I think it is the first time I see it .
23 Q Today?
24 A Today .
r
i
25 Q Is that your board that YOU had?
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 A I don't know , sir,
( 2 Q Do YOU know that YOU had any boards such as this?
3 A No , sir ,
4 Q Show YOU Government's exhibit number 128 in evidence,
5 purporting to be a site plan, did YOU ever see , in your
6 proposal , any board such as that?
7 A No , sir ,
8 Q Did YOU ever see any boards such as that or blueprints
9 such as that for any other proposal?
10 A I don ' t recall ,
11 Q Showing YOU Government's Exhibit number 125, conceptual
12 landscaping site plan, did yoU ever see such a board as
13 that?
14 A No , sir ,
15 Q Since YOU have talked to the Government , have they ever
16 shown YOU any boards from your proposal that was submitted
17 on September 30 , 1982, and acted uPon December 13th, 1982;
18 any boards such as this?
19 A No , they have not ,
20 Q Do you know where those boards would be today if they
21 were 1n existence?
22 A No , I hOve no ideo,
23 Q Did you move out of Sacasa's and Osorio ' s office or did
24 they move out of your office sometime after December 13th,
(
25 1982?
I
Vnl In-~~
Padreda - Cross -
1 A I personally moved out .
( 2 Q You were all--as of this time period yOU, Sacasa,
3 Osirio , Cardoso and Padreda between this time were all in
4 the some office were yOU not?
5 A That ' s correct.
6 Q I don ' t mean YOU were all in the some office, but you
7 all hod offices in the some suite?
8 A That ' s correct .
9 Q How soon after this did YOU move out after December 137
10 A I don ' t have any ideo when by but it was after I get out
11 of the hospital.
12 Q It was sometime early in 1983?
13 A 19
14 Q ' 837
15 A That ' s correct .
16 Q Did yau take your documents and your files , and your
17 proposals with you?
18 A No , I don ' t have too take anything.
19 Q You did not toke anything?
20 A No , sir ,
21 Q Where did YOU get that memo.
22 A It was one 1n the file when we get the Joint venture .
23 Q Joint venture?
24 A Joint venture .
t 25 Q Which Joint venture?
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 A All the JOint ventures we have Mr . Sacasa ' s group.
( 2 Q That was in one of the files?
3 A That was one inside file .
4 Q That was the only document pertaining to Esperanza .
5 A I don·t took any file or any document or any plans in
6 reference to the Esperanza Project or any other project .
7 Q I understand, but in December of 1990 you gave this
8 document to the Government . Is that correct?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Where did you get this in December of 1990?
11 A In the file, which was a file called business with
12 Sacasa ' s group .
13 Q In your office?
14 A In my office.
15 Q That was the only document that was ever in there?
16 A To The best of my recollection that was the only
17 document I have there.
18 Q Who selected the architect, David Perez, for the
19 Esperanza ProJect?
20 A Myself .
21 Q He was a famous, well qualified, knowledgeable
22 professional architect?
23 A That · s correct.
24 Q Had done Hork for 0 number of developers , including Mr.
(
25 Emmer?
I
Vnl In_<7
Padreda - Cross -
1 A Yes.
( 2 Q And you?
3 A That ' s correct.
4 Q Had somewhat of a distinctive style?
5 A Sir.
6 Q Did he have somewhat of a distinctive style, or was he
7 Just a competent architect?
8 A He was a good architect .
9 Q Did yoU, sir, convince him. David Perez, to change any
10 plans?
11 A Not to the best of my knowledge .
12 Q Did yOU talk to him about such a thing?
13 A To Change a plan?
14 Q To change the roof.
15 A I think that was "r. Osorio.
16 Q The answer is yOU did not?
17 A I don·t remember talking to him. to ask him to change
18 the roof .
19 Q Do YOU think. sir. if yOU asked him to change the rOOf.
20 after September 30. 1982. and before December 13th. 1982?
21 A I don't recall telling him to change anything .
22 Q What I asked you. sir. do yoU think that would be a
23 significant event . that you would recall?
24 A I don't believe that change was so significant . big
25 problem or anything.
I
Vnl 1 n_ ••
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q Not so significant?
-
I. 2 A No .
3 Q Between September 30, 1982 and December 30, 1982,
4 showing YOU Government·s exhibit number 106 , which is in
5 evidence , which is the Padreda proposal to the Hialeah
6 Housing Authority.
7 A Yes .
8 Q You recognize that document, do yoU not?
9 A Yes .
10 Q Did yOU, sir, during that period of time open UP this
11 binding, taKe it out, insert different pages ; speaKing of
12 yOU , did you, yourself?
13 A I have not done that .
14 Q The answer then is no , is it not?
15 A That ' s correct .
16 Q You did not do it with anyone else present. You were
17 not there . If it was done yOU were not a participant ,
18 correct?
19 A No , sir.
20 Q It is correct that yOU were not a participant?
21 A That ' s correct .
22 Q Did you ever give Osorio another proposal from another
23 competitor in the Esperonza ProJect?
24 A If I give to Osorio .
(
25 Q Another proposal from another developer?
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 A No , sir .
( 2 Q On December 13th , 1982 , were YOU and Mr . Osorio together
3 immediately preceding in the hours before Mr . Osorio went to
4 the meeting to present your proposal?
5 A Will you repeat that , if yOU don·t mind .
6 Q December 13th, 1982, that is the day of the meeting?
7 A Correct .
8 Q The meeting started at 4:00, five o'clock in the
9 afternoon according to the documents . Prior to that time ,
10 prior to 4:30 , five o'clock December 13 , we re you in the
11 office with Mr . Osorio?
12 A I have no recollection . I can be in the office.
13 Q You have no independent recollection?
14 A No , sir .
15 Q The only thing yOU recall relating to Osorio on that
16 date was that he come to your house after the meeting?
17 A I would soy , no , after the meeting . I would soy after
18 he withdraw from the b1d ,
19 Q After he withdraw?
20 A Which is way before the meeting , or before the meeting .
21 Q Before the meeting. He withdraw before the meeting?
22 A Before they award or b~fore they both .
23 Q What time was it , do you have any ideo?
24 A I have no ideo .
(
25 Q Hod he called yoU prior to coming over?
I
Podreda - Cross -
1 A No, He come directly to my house.
( 2 Q You were at home ,
3 A I was at home,
4 Q Prior to this time. had you talked to the mayor . prior
S to Osorio com1ng over?
6 A No,
7 Q Did you talk to anyone concern1ng--- That was the first
8 time you learned of the withdrawal . was 1t not?
9 A At my house,
10 Q When Osorio told you?
11 A That · s correct ,
12 Q Had David Perez done other HUD ProJects with you? He
13 was familiar with HUD . was he not?
14 A Yes ,
15 Q He had done other projects for you and he was familiar?
16 I asked two questions ,
17 A Both Questions. yes,
18 Q It is not unusual for a person such as yourself . who is
19 a fund raiser for politicians to ask favors for those
20 politicians . is it?
21 A No ,
22 Q You have a daughter who you requested Sergio Pereira to
23 employ. and she actually scored highest on the test . did she
24 not?
(
2S A Yes . sir,
I
Vnl In_Ltl
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q You as~ed him if he can find a Job for her?
•
I. 2 A That's correct .
3 Q You signed your plea agreement on September 26. 1990.
4 We went through that Yesterday extensively. Do YOU recall
5 the date or do YOU wish me to show it to YOU again?
6 A I don·t recall the date. no.
7 "R. HOGAN: I thin~ we moved it in as a
8 Government ' s Exhibit. did we not?
9 Q Let me show YOU Government·s exhibit number 8. United
10 States of America versus Camilo Padreda; case number
11 90-739-Cr- Judge King .
12 Then I am going to show you. sir--- Your attorney
13 at the time was Sam Robin. was he not?
14 A Yes .
15 a Attached to this is a Signature that is dated. your
16 dote . December 26. 1990. Do YOU see that?
17 A That · s correct ,
18 a The dote YOU signed the plea agreement was December 26.
19 1990.
9
20 That was pursuant to an information, was it not?
21 There was not a Grand Jury indictment . You waived
22 "R. CHAYKIN: I thin~ this is repetitious.
,
23 "R. HOGAN : I did not gO into the information.
24 THE COURT: Overruled.
25 Q There was no Grand Jury indictment pursuant to the
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 information. You Haived indictment . They filed an
2 information?
3 A That·s correct.
4 Q That Has filed over the signature . Has it not , of
5 ~arcella Cohen , Acting United States Attorney?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Just prior to signing this plea agreement , yoU had a
8 corporation, did YOU not, called Cipi Corporation?
9 A Yes .
10 Q What type of corporation Has Cipi Corpo ration? Was that
11 a contract builder?
12 A Yes .
13 Q You Here the one hundred percent OHner of that?
14 A Yes .
15 Q On September 24th , tHO days before you filed bankruptcy
16 in that corporation , did YOU not?
17 A That · s correct .
18 Q At the time , sir , YOU filed bankruptcy tHo days before
19 the pleo agreement , YOU filed only as to that corporation ,
20 did yoU not? You did not file personal bankruptcy?
21 A That·s correct .
22 Q ShortlY after your plea agreement you filed a statement
23 of creditors, did yOU not?
24 A That ' s correct .
(
25 And at the time of the bonkruptcy yOU oHed one million
Q
I
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 four hundred fourteen thousand to subcontractors , did YOU
( 2 not?
3 A That's correct ,
4 Q At the same time YOU filed bankruptcy in that
5 corporation, sir , August 1, 1990, YOU filed a financial
6 statement where your personal net worth was, along with your
7 wife, was $217,000; was that correct?
8 A Yes , sir ,
9 Q Shortly after your plea, sir, YOU and your wife bought a
10 $535,000 building, did YOU not?
11 A That's correct ,
12 Q That building was bought under the name J and P
13 Advisors, was it not?
14 A That's correct,
15 Q That was a building that was to be used as a clinic, was
16 it not?
17 A That's correct ,
18 Q A clinic dealing with "edicare and Medicaid patients?
19 A That's correct ,
20 Q Receiving payments from the federal government?
21 A For any institution that he had ,
22 Q What I am saying is your patients are covered by either
23 the Federal Medicare or State Medicaid ,
24 A And also private and also insurance,
25 Q Those federal funds are paid directly to YOU, are they
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 not?
( 2 A To The old med1cal serv1ce.
~ Q Wh1ch 1s a corporat10n. Who owns 1t?
4 A My w!fe.
5 o The bu1ld1ng 1s owned by J and P Adv1sors, 1s 1t not?
6 A That's correct.
7 0 You test1f1ed Yesterday that YOU were pres1dent of that
8 corporat1on?
9 A I don't th1nk I test1f1ed I was pres1dent of the
10 corporat10n.
11 Q Were you the pres1dent of the corporat10n?
12 A No, s1r, I am not.
13 o Do YOU have any ownersh1p 1nterest 1n the corporat1on?
L
14 A No, I have not .
15 o Do YOU draw any funds? Are YOU an off1cer of that
16 corporat10n?
17 A No, I am not.
18 Q Yet?
19 A Not yet .
20 Q Do YOU work there?
21 A I work there.
22 Q That corporat10n 1s owned 100 percent by your w1fe?
2~ A That·s correct.
24 o Your w1fe had no 1nterest 1n C1p1 Corporat10n?
(
25 A No.
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 Q None at all?
2 A No .
3 Q I think YOU told us YOU hod raised or hod raised , to the
4 best of YOur recollection , funds for the ~ayor of Hialeah?
5 A That ' s correct.
6 Q For his political campaign?
7 A That ' s correct .
8 Q I think YOU told us that amounted to three thousand
9 dollars?
10 A Four thousand .
11 Q Was that over a period of years or each compaign?
12 A I would say in two or three campaigns .
13 Q You had asked -- YOU gave one thousand dollars yourself ,
L
14 did you?
15 A I don · t recall exactly hOH much I did .
16 Q It is not unusual for YOU to give one thousand dollars
17 to politicians?
18 A No.
19 Q You have raised funds for ~onolo Roboso?
20 A Yes .
21 Q ~aurice Ferre?
22 A Yes .
23 Q Demetrio Pe rez?
24 A No , sir .
25 Q Joe Corrola?
I
u", ,n_1«
Padredo - Cross -
1 A Yes .
t 2 Q Rosario Kennedy?
3 A Yes .
4 Q David Kennedy?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Steve Clark?
7 A Yes .
8 Q Clara OsterlY?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Jorge Valdez?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Sergio Pereira?
13 A I don · t recall. To give it tund raising to Sergio
14 Pereira.
15 Q Paula Hawkins?
16 A Yes, sir .
17 Q Gerald Lewis?
18 A Yes , sir.
19 Q Bill Gunther?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q Number ot Judges; State Court Judges?
22 A Yes , sir.
23 Q And others too numerous to mention?
24 A Yes .
25 Q Have yOU raised tunds for Ileana Ros-Lehtinen?
I
Vnl 10-£17
Padreda - Cross -
1 "R . CHAYKIN : Objection.
-
\ 2 THE COURT : Overruled .
3 "R . CHAYKIN: Can we approach?
4 THE COURT: Answer the Question . Yes or no .
5 A Repeat the Question .
6 Q While YOU were under investigation , did YOU give a
7 thousand dollars to Ileana Ros-Leht1nen?
8 A Dur1ng the time I was in invest1gat10n I gave one
9 thousand to Ileana Ros .
10 Q Ileana Ros?
11 A Yes, sir . But not under my knowledge. It was under
12 1nvestigation.
13 Q You did not know?
14 A I had no 1dea at that time .
15 Q That donation was made August 3rd, 19897
16 THE COURT : That is it . Objection sustained.
17 "R . HOGAN : I would like to approach .
18 THE COURT: You may .
19 (SIDEBAR)
20 "R. HOGAN : He made a donat i on to Ileana
21 Ros-Lehtinen for Congress on August 3rd, 1989 for a thousand
22 dollars . He made a statement since that time that if they
,
23 took the money , he did not think he would get indicted .
10
24 In addition to that, when he was indicted Dexter
25 Lehtinen , because of th1s donat10n, recused himself.
I
Padreda - Cross -
1 Marcella Cohen took over the investigation . He obtained her
( 2 resume and sent it to Washington , in order to have her favor
3 for the United States AttorneYs policy.
4 I only bring UP the second part because that is
5 what has been gOing on . I see no need to do it before the
6 Jury , unless the Court allows it . He was under
7 investigation . He gave his money and he testified all the
8 time he asked for favors to people he donates to .
9 THE COURT: I will not permit YOU to gO any
10 further . Objection sustained.
11 Anything else YOU want to proffer for the record?
12 MR. HOGAN : I proffer that he gave it to her while
13 he was under investigation. I proffer Dexter Lehtinen
14 recused himself. I proffer Marcella Cohen Has named acting
15 United States AttorneY for the prosecution of Mr . Padreda .
16 I proffer I Hill be able to prove he obtained
17 Marcella Cohen ' s resume ; sent it to his friend in
18 Washington , the committee to oppose her for the Attorney
19 Generals Job , in order for him to use his political
20 connections to keep from getting indicted .
21 THE COURT : You object to the proffer?
22 MR . CHAYKIN: Absolutely .
23 THE COURT : Objection is sustained .
24 (SIDEBAR CONFERENCE CONCLUDED)
( 25 MR. HOGAN : That ' s all I have ,
I
Vnl 10-liq
Padreda - Cross -
1 THE COURT : Redirect .
( 2 REDIRECT EXAMINATION
3 BY MR . CHAYKIN :
4 Q "r . Padreda, how long has your wlfe been a business
5 woman?
6 A Slnce 1978 .
7 Q What klnd of buslnesses does she have?
8 A She own all F10rlda Carpet .
9 Q She has had her own buslness slnce then?
10 A Slr .
11 Q Slnce 1978?
12 A 1978, 1979 .
I
Padreda - Redirect -
1 and the rest of the Grand Jury testimony?
( 2 A No , I don't remember .
3 Q Do you recall talking about the December 13th meeting of
4 withdrawal .
5 A I remember saying that we withdraw from the bids .
6 Q Do yOU recall, during that Grand Jury testimony, talking
7 about when the withdrawal occurred in relationship to Your
8 hospitalization?
9 A Two days before my hospitalization .
10 Q You knew at that time, did YOU not, withdrawn.
11 Did yoU know at the time of the Grand Jury when
12 your hospitalization was?
13 A It was on the 14th, 15th, but I was not sure . I was
14 sure it was December because I was planning to have the
15 operation in December , to take a time off during the
16 Christmas time.
17 Q That was all discussed in front of the Grand Jury, was
18 it not?
19 A That ' s correct.
20 Q Have YOU ever been shown your Grand Jury testimony?
21 A Sir .
22 Q Have yoU ever been shown Your Grand Jury testimony?
23 No , sir.
,
A
I
Podreda - Redirect -
1 Q Was Mr. Udolf or I involved in your prosecution at all?
( 2 A No .
3 Q To your knowledge, were we involved in any aspect of
4 your investigation?
5 A Outerbridge and another, Rice or something like that;
6 Andy Reich .
7 Q Other than going over your plea agreement with YOU in
8 preparation for testifying here today, was either Mr. Udolf
9 or myself involved in the negotiations in this plea
10 agreement?
11 A No, sir.
12 MR. HOGAN: Objection. He can·t testify to that.
13 Q To your knowledge.
14 THE COURT: Sustained.
15 Q Did Mr. Udolf and I ever negotiate we were ever involved
16 with you or your attorneys in negotiation for this plea
17 agreement?
18 A No.
19 MR. HOGAN: Objection. Move to strike.
20 THE COURT: Grounds.
21 MR. HOGAN: He can·t say what his attorney has
22 done .
23 THE COURT: I think his Question was whether these
24 two dealt directly.
(
25 MR . HOGAN: He said you or your own attorney . I
I
Padredo - Redirect -
1 ask the question be read back ,
( 2 THE COURT: Objection sustained ,
3 Q Were YOU present with your attorney during the
4 negotiations on the plea agreement?
5 A I was present with my attorney .
6 Q On all occasions?
7 A Not all occasions .
8 Q On those occasions that yoU were present with your
9 attorney negotiating your plea agreement. I am not talking
10 about anything else . Just negotiations of the plea
11 agreement. were either Mr . Udolf or I present during those
12 negotiations?
13 A No . sir .
14 Q Were either Mr . Udolf or I present at all at your
15 interviews with the agents?
16 A No . sir .
17 Q Had yOU been interviewed . and I think it is called
18 debriefed. had you ever heard that term before? Have you
19 ever been interviewed on topics other than the Esperanza
20 ProJect?
21 A Yes . sir .
22 Q How do you know? I think YOU said YOU knew Antonio
23 Cardona 10 yeors before the Esperanza ProJect?
24 A Yes .
25 Q How did yoU know him or in what capacity?
I
Vol 1 n-~~
Padreda - Redirect -
1 A I know Mr. Cardona because he was a client of my
( 2 company . Miami Concrete .
3 Q How would yOU describe your relationship with him?
4 A Not a personal .
5 Q How would yOU compare it with your relationship to Raul
6 Martinez.
7 A I know Cardona Just by the nome because he HaS a client .
11
8 the name come to my attention many times because he was not
9 paid the bills in time, and we have some problem with him .
10 Q He was not a good customer?
11 A That·s correct .
12 Q That was during the period of time the Esperanza Project
13 was pending. Did you have an opinion as to the chances of
14 succeeding in getting that project?
15 MR. HOGAN : Objection. Relevance .
16 THE COURT : Overruled .
17 Q You may answer the question .
18 A Will you repeat again .
19 Q What I am trying to ask yoU what did you think your
20 chances were at the ti~e the Esperanza Pro j ect was pending
21 and your proposal was pending , what did yOU think your
22 chances were of succeeding?
23 A I think we got a very good chance.
24 Q Was there ever a time prior to Decembe r 13th, date of
(
25 the final meeting , you ever considered withdrawing that bid?
I
Podreda - Redirect -
1 A No, sir .
( 2 Q When YOU made a proposal, "r . Padreda, throughout the
3 years to either private or public institutions to do a
4 proJect, and you don·t win the proJect, what do you normally
5 do with the files and the papers of that proJect? What
6 normally happens to that?
7 A We throw it away .
8 Q Is there any reason to keep it?
9 A No reason.
10 Q Do you know what happened to your files on the Esperanza
11 Project after you withdrew your bid?
12 A I don't have any idea where they are.
13 Q Did YOU take them with YOU when YOU left?
14 A No .
15 Q This purports to be--I think it is marked as Defendant's
16 Exhibit 46 which is---
17 THE COURT: For identification.
18 Q For identification, which is El Sol De Hialeah,
19 "R. HOGAN: He wants to show it to the Jury . I
20 have no objection to it coming in .
21 Q April 1, 1972 , as a matter of fact. Do yOU recall
22 whether or not your name and address and phone number of
23 your business was located anywhere on this purported
24 article?
(
25 A No , sir.
I
Vol 10-SS
Padreda - Redirect -
1 Q Let me show it to YOU and see if that would refresh Your
•
\. 2 recollection . Is that part of the same article dawn he re?
3 A Yes .
4 Q Does your street address and phone number appear?
5 A I don ' t see it , sir.
6 Q What is this address down below?
7 A The plant .
8 Q Whose plant?
9 A Miami Concrete plant.
10 Q Was that your plant?
11 A Yes , sir .
12 Q How does it differ from the news print? How is it
13 different in size in the news print?
14 A It is a big --
15 MR. HOGAN : It·s not in. He can·t testify to it.
16 THE COURT : Objection sustained .
17 Q You indicated on direct examination you indicated on
18 cross-examination , when Mr . Hogan asked YOU about that
19 article, that was an advertisement . Is that what your
20 understanding was, that Has on adverti sement?
21 A I believe it was .
22 Q Did YOU recall paying any money to have that article put
23 in there?
24 A I don · t have any ideo . Mr . Rodriguez was the treasurer ,
25 secretary treasurer of the corporation. and he handled that .
I
Vnl 1 n-~~
Padreda - Redirect -
1 Q Was it not . to your knowledge, customary to , with regard
( 2 to papers such as E1 Sol De Hialeah, other newspapers and
3 community newspapers that yOU could pay for newspaper
4 articles in there, to be put into the newspaper?
5 A Pay for the advertising.
6 Q And they would make it look like a newspaper article?
7 I'IR . HOGAN : ObJ ection . Leading .
8 THE COURT : Sustained .
9 Q How is it yOU did not gO to the meeting on December
10 13th?
11 A I don·t hear you.
12 Q How is it yOU did not gO to the meeting on December 13 ,
13 1982, the final meeting in which the bid was awarded?
14 A I was not here.
15 Q You were not there?
16 A No .
17 Q Why was that , do yOU recall?
18 A I was in my house .
19 Q Why were you at that house that evening?
20 A I was sick.
21 Q Do you recall when YOU noticed yOU intended on going to
22 the the meeting?
23 A No . I had no intention to gO to the meeting .
24 Q When yoU went to Raul Martinez ' house , what Has his
25 reaction when you told him about the withdrawal of the bid?
I
Padredo - Redirect -
1 What was his reaction? How did he oct; not what he said,
( 2 but how did he act?
3 A He don ' t see a reason for withdraw of the bid .
4 Q Can YOU say whether he reacted surprised, shocked?
5 MR . HOGAN: Objection .
6 THE COURT: Sustained .
7 Q In other words , what was his demeanor at the time?
8 MR . HOGAN : Objection , unless he tells him .
9 Q Do you understand---
10 MR . HOGAN : I object to the word demeanor .
11 THE COURT : On what basis?
12 MR . HOGAN : Because I don't think it is
13 understood.
14 THE COURT : If he does not understand it he will
15 tell us he does not understand it .
16 Q Do YOU know what I mean by demeanor?
17 A No .
18 THE COURT : Objection sustained. Rephrase Your
19 question .
20 Q How did Mr . Martinez behave when he was telling YOU
21 this?
22 A I don · t recall , but he said why we withdraw . That is
,
23 all .
24 Q Did he indicate to yOU whether or not he already had
25 known about it?
I
Pod redo - Redirect -
1 A I am sorry .
{ 2 Q Did he say to YOU during that conve r sation that he hod
3 already known about the withdrawal?
4 "R . HOGAN : Objection. Leading .
5 THE COURT : Sustained .
6 Q Do you know how "r . "art inez found out about the
7 withdrawal, your withdrawal?
8 A I have no ideo.
9 Q Do yOU know whether or not he knew about it before YOU
10 got there?
11 A I presume so .
12 Q Why do you preSUMe so?
12
13 A Because the meeting was way before I went to his house.
~
14 Q Was there anybody there when yOU ar r ived?
15 A "r. Cardona was there .
16 Q Now , with reference to that meeting , I Just wont to
17 understand your testimony on cross-examination .
18 With reference to that meeting at Mr. Martinez '
19 house on either December 13 Dr December 14, yOU said there
20 was another person there?
21 A That ' s correct .
22 Q Looking at Government ' s Exhibit 79 , do you recall
23 whether or not anyone in this picture represented the person
24 or appears to be the person who was at that meeting?
(
25 A I really don't recall . I think I sow that person Just
I
Padreda - Redirect -
lone day . never saw before or later. I don·t recall who it
( 2 was .
3 Q Do YOU see that person or anyone who looks like that
4 person in that photo?
5 A Really. I cannot answer that Question.
6 "R . HOGAN: Objection.
7 THE COURT : Overruled.
8 Q Do yOU know who "r. Victor Gonzalez is? A person named
9 Victor Gonzalez?
10 A No. I think he was one of the members of the board. but
11 I don ' t know him.
12 Q As part of your plea agreement . yoU plead to on
13 information in which--and this is in evidence. where YOU
14 admit to knowingly and Wilfully making a false . fraudulent
15 and fictitious statement of material facts in a contractors
16 certificate of actual cost.
I
17 Do yOU recall that?
18 A Yes .
19 Q Part of the things thot were false about that
20 certificate of actual cost . is that there were checks
21 indicated paid to subcontractors that were currently not
22 paid to subcontractors .
23 Do you recall that?
24 "R . HOGAN : Objection. Leading . The plea
( 25 agreement is in evidence.
Pcdredc - Redirect -
1 THE COURT : Overruled ,
( 2 Q You can answer thot Question,
3 A Will yoU---
, 24
25
companies , The check was kept by Jiro Martinez ,
(SIDEBAR)
I
Vnl In_<l
Podreda - Redirect -
1 MR, HOGAN : I think we would have to have a break ,
( 2 Afte r on hour and a half in the morning the number 6 is
3 dozing off, or stand UP or something like that ,
4 THE COURT : Okay ,
5 MR , HOGAN : She is very intent most of the time ,
6 Sometimes , after a long time she goes to sleep, as I wish I
7 can sometimes , Would YOU tell them Jiro is no relation to
8 Raul ,
9 (SIDEBAR CONfERENCE CONCLUDED)
10 BY MR , CHAYKIN:
11 Q Mr, Padreda , would you write a memorandum of your
12 meetings with your partners?
13 A No, Sir ,
Q
No,
Why was that?
I
18 A I don ' t use to write memos ,
19 Q Did yOU write a memo of your discussion with Raul
20 Martinez about 150 thousand dollars that he wonted?
21 A No ,
22 Q Why would yOU not write a memo about that conversation?
23 MR, HOGAN: Objection,
24 THE COURT : Objection sustained,
(
25 Q The memo of December 14 , the memorandum of December 14
I
Podredo - Redirect -
1 that was shown to YOU by Mr . Hogan , are there any features
2 about this memo that identify it as a memo written by Mr.
3 Sacasa?
4 A That is the original person who write the memos in my
5 office .
6 Q Let me show yOU what has been marked as defendant's
7 exhibit 9 for identification . Is there anything else about
8 the way that memorandum was drafted that is characteristic
9 of Mr . Sacasa ' s?
10 A Mr . Sacasa in some paragraph when we have--he have to gO
11 and proceed with this same subject or something, always have
12 like down here number; he come back and say pOint one , point
13 two . That is a characteristic in the Sacasa memo .
L
14 Q When you would write what language would YOU write---
15 A In Spanish.
16 Q With respect to your testimony about payment to Mr .
17 Valdez , how did you make those paYments to Mr. Valdez?
18 A Checks .
19 Q To whom?
20 A To different companies .
21 Q Who gave YOU the nomes of these different companies?
22 A Sir .
23 Q HOH did YOU get the names of these different companies?
24 A Through Mr . Valdez.
25 Q How was it that you wrote the checks to these different
I
Padreda - Redirect -
1 companies? How did that come about?
( 2 A He asked me to write a check to different companies.
3 Q Did YOU know why he was doing that at the time?
4 A No . sir . I have no idea .
5 Q With respect to the indictment in Texas . you signed an
6 agreement which yoU acknowledged responsibility for what yOU
7 did in regarding the indictment in Texas. "r . Hogan showed
8 YOU that . Do you recall that?
13
9 A Yes.
10 Q What it means for you to accept responsibility?
11 A We have to repay the bank . and that I took the
12 responsibility to pay the bank .
13 Q Did yOU do that?
14 A Yes. sir.
15 Q Did yOU ever have ony type of agreement between YOU and
16 Judge King . that YOU know about? Was there any plea
17 agreement between you and Judge King?
18 A I never have anything . I never met Judge King ar never
19 talked to "r . Judge King.
20 Q This plea agreement. who was this agreement with?
21 A With the United States Attorney office .
22 Q Does this agreement indicate as to who is baund by this
23 agreement?
24 A The United States Attorney Office.
25 Q Were YOU ever told Judge King would be bound by this
I
Vnl 1 n_<l1
Podredo - Redirect -
1 agreement?
2 A No. sir.
3 Q When YOU say no . sir---
4 A I don · t have any idea he is bound or whatever.
5 Q Do yOU remembe r any provisions you being adv1sed that as
6 to your sentence that the Court is not bound by any
7 recommendation made by the United States?
8 A That · s what the Judge said at the time .
9 Q The Judge told yOU that?
10 A Yes. sir.
11 Q The Judge told YOU that he was not bound by anything in
12 this agreement. did he not?
13 A That·s correct .
L
14 Q Do you recall that as to restitution . that any award .
15 any ogreement between YOU and the United Stotes as to
16 restitution with respect to the $119 . 000 . that Judge King
17 would not be bound by that also?
18 A No. sir .
19 Q No. he would not be bound?
20 A No . I don ' t know thot .
21 Q Do yOU recall these words in the agreement? Parograph
22 10. all parties understand however that this recommendation .
23 os with any other recommendation that the United States may
24 choose to make is not binding upon the Court . Do YOU recall
( 25 that?
j
Podreda - Redirect -
1 A That · s correct .
-
\. 2 Q That Has your understanding that anything in this
3 document Has not binding on the Court?
4 A That · s correct .
5 Q As yOU sit here today , do yOU know what sentence yOU
6 Hill receive from Judge King when yoU are sentenced?
7 A I don · t have any idea .
8 Q When YOU commenced cooperating , pursuant to your plea
9 agreement, do you know whether or not Raul Martinez had
10 already been indicted?
11 A Yes , he was .
12 Q So , your cooperation occurred before or after "r.
13 "artinez ' indictment?
14 MR. HOGAN : ObJ ection . I obJ ect because the
15 indictment is not evidence.
16 THE COURT : Overruled.
17 Q Your cooperation began before or after Mr . Martinez was
18 indicted?
19 A After "r . Martinez ' indictment .
20 "R. HOGAN : ObJ ection . It i s misleading .
21 THE COURT : Clarify it .
22 Q Do yOU know whether or not the re was a superseding
23 indictment against Mr . Martinez after your plea agreement?
24 Do YOU know what a superseding indictment is?
25 A No , I don ' t .
I
Padreda - Redirect -
1 Q Do YOU know what, if any , charges were different , before
~
I
Padreda - Redirect -
1 "R . HOGAN : Some objection .
( 2 THE COURT: Sustained.
3 Q Did this agreement provide. sir. for your prosecution
4 for perjury if you lied?
5 A Yes . sir.
6 Q Why would yoU not lie? "r . Hogan asked you whether or
7 not you would say the moon is blue if it was white; for your
8 daughter. would yoU do that?
9 A According to the ogreement that I have with the
10 Government I cannot lie at any moment.
11 Q What is your understanding if yOU do lie?
12 A That I can--the agreement is not valid . It is void and
13 null and my daughter con be prosecuted .
L
14 Q Would yOU do anything to Jeopardize that agreement?
15 MR . HOGAN: Objection .
16 THE COURT : He will take that UP in a minute. I
17 What is the Question pending?
18 "R. CHAYKIN : Would he do anything to Jeopardize
19 his plea agreement.
20 THE COURT : Overruled.
21 A No. I would not .
22 Q Had anyone threatened yoU with the fact that if yOU did
23 not sign this plea agreement. that your daughter will be
24 indicted?
L 25 A No . sir .
I
Padreda - Redirect -
1 Q Have YOU seen members of the Latin Builders Association
( 2 in Cou r t the last two days of your testimony?
3 MR . HOGAN : Objection . Relevancy.
4 THE COURT : Sustained .
5 Q What affect has your testimony hod on your standing with
6 the Latin Builders Association .
7 MR. HOGAN : Objection .
8 THE COURT: Objection sustained .
9 MR . CHAYKIN: I have no further questions .
10 THE COURT: You may step down.
11 (WITNESS EXCUSED)
12 (LINDA LODDO , GOVERNMENT ' S WITNESS, RECALLED)
13 THE COURT : Ladies and gentlemen do YOU recall we
14 hod a witness who was not feeling well and we discontinue
15 the the examination we are bringing that witness back to
16 continue the examination and ony redirect if it is deemed
17 appropriate
18 THE COURT : You are still under oath . Have a
19 seat, please .
20 CROSS EXAMINATION , CONTINUED
21 BY MR , HOGAN :
22 Q Good morning , Miss Loddo?
23 A Good morning,
24 Q Do YOU feel better?
25 A Much better , thank you . I apologize for not being here