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80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum

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80 lb red oak board bow #2 Author

sleek

Comment 80 lb red oak board bow #2

Lead [-]

Ok, well the osage bow that Mattso just made inspired me to make a bow like it. I also want to make another red oak board bow to put through tests and see if a board bow can hold up to 80 lbs reliably. This will be a build along, and when I have questions, I will try to wait for advice and opinions of those who post before going on. I have a red oak board that is I am going to make it long enough for my draw length. So... I like to draw 28, so both limbs need to be 28 plus a 4 inch handle... thats 59 inches. My other red oak bow was 56 inches.
Posts: 1669 Jan 11 11 5:01 PM R e ply Q uote More

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80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum

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80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum

Last Edited By: sleek Jan 11 11 5:08 PM. Edited 3 times.

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badger5149

#1 [-] I think for an 80# red oak bow i would add at least 10" to your 59" length for a 28" draw. Standard formula is more like double draw length plus about 20%. You could make it 59" but it might need to be close to 4" wide. Steev

Posts: 5375 Jan 11 11 5:04 PM

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80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum

sleek

#2 [-] Ok, well the board is 3.5 inches wide. And I dont want to create a huricane of wind every time I shoot it, so if I make it 2.5 inches wide, how long you reckon it should be? Does the board look ok?

Posts: 1669 Jan 11 11 5:11 PM R e ply Q uote More

George Tsoukalas

#3 [-] Not a good board for 80#. See how the grain s wandering off the board in a few places. There's probably more of that and you need all the lines straight tip to tip with no exceptions for a heavy bow. Jawge

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/
Posts: 4990 Jan 11 11 5:40 PM R e ply Q uote More

sleek which picture shows the grain going off the board?

#4 [-]

Posts: 1669 Jan 11 11 6:08 PM R e ply Q uote More

HCOnline

#5 [-] All of them. I'm no expert, but I strongly recommend that you go to 72" at least for a red oak board bow at 80#. The added length distributes the stresses of 80# far more gently than a 59" bow.

Posts: 109 Jan 11 11 6:23 PM R e ply Q uote More

Silent Bear

#6 [-] The grain looks a little swirly, personaly I wouldn't try making an 80 pound bow from it at that short of length

Posts: 251 Jan 11 11 6:44 PM R e ply Q uote More

Salvador 06

#7 [-]

I say you go for it, and if it blows, it blows. The board looks a little wavy, but I think its exaggerated by the angle of the picture, we're seeing the whole board. I would make a bow from that board, maybe not an 80# bow, but I don't make 80# bows. This falls under something I mentioned before in a different thread, we are bound by "successful" formulas and rarely experiment with extremes. I'm glad you're doing it. Even if it doesn't work out, something will be paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/41086/80-lb-red-oak-board-bow-2#.UiQF4jaTgWY 4/9

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80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum experiment with extremes. I'm glad you're doing it. Even if it doesn't work out, something will be

learned or re-learned.

Posts: 2045 Jan 11 11 7:14 PM R e ply Q uote More

fiddler49

#8 [-] I just built a red oak Mollegabet, 61lbs @28" or 70lbs @ 31" . It is 72" long x 2 3/4" wide. 5" handle and 2" fades for 9" non bending center. 17" working limbs, 13" levers. It has 1 1/2" string follow. It is riff cut with dead straight grain on both sides. This is the best heaviest red oak bow I've built yet. I got the board from Lowe's but had to go through the whole pile. it was 3 1/2" x 10 ft, 23 dollars. Your board grain looks too wavy. Find another board and make it longer. cheers fiddler49

Posts: 3331 Jan 11 11 7:46 PM R e ply Q uote More

sleek

#9 [-] I was thinking that because of the potentialy weak back due to some grain run off, I would not trap the back very much more than just enough to make a smooth transition from the sides to the back. I was also thinking I may trap the belly some, I know you dont do that with red oak, but maybe it would stress the back less. I am going to try to build this bow around the swirling rings, and place the most severe swirl in the handle that way the limbs have the straightest grain/growth rings. The most ring swirl is going to be at the tips of the limbs where they arent going to bend much if at all anyways.Also I thought that the really thick late wood rings would add some strength. Think I can get away with this? By the way, I am only trying to make an 80 pounder because I want to see if it can be done, and if not, why. So it doesnt matter if this bow bows up or not, just so long as I can figure out why it did or didnt. But I do want to give it the best chance possiable.
Last Edited By: sleek Jan 11 11 8:13 PM. Edited 1 times.

Posts: 1669 Jan 11 11 8:00 PM R e ply Q uote More

HCOnline

#10 [-] Well, red oak is stronger in tension than compression, so trapping the belly would be a bad idea. I saw another thread on trapping, I can't remember where it was on here, but a red oak bow can be trapped such that the back is 2/3, or even a 1/2, of the belly's width and maintain stability in large part because it is stronger in tension than in compression.

Posts: 109 Jan 11 11 9:45 PM R e ply Q uote More

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#11 [-]
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80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum

Man thats a great quote from Salvador, "We are bound by successful formulas and rarely experiment with extremes." I say you go 56" Long and as wide as you have to to compensate. That shorty felt so good in the field yeterday. And it's realy just the lower limbs that need all the width so you wont cause a wind storm with the pyramid outer limbs.

Posts: 181 Jan 12 11 6:15 AM R e ply Q uote More

George Tsoukalas sleek, sorry. second to the last. Jawge

#12 [-]

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

Posts: 4990 Jan 12 11 7:22 AM R e ply Q uote More

KeganTheCaveman

#13 [-] I think if you back it and leave it as wide as possible it would be worth a shot (semi-Ishi style). Maybe not 80#, but plenty hefty I'm sure. If you backed it with a heavy cloth you still wouldn't be out that much should it break.

Posts: 289 Jan 12 11 8:02 AM R e ply Q uote More

sleek

#14 [-] Thanks Jawge. I was under the impression that the growth rings arent the same thing as grain. I thought you could have perfectly straight rings and still have a grain that twist around the board. So thats why I picked this board. The wood fibers looked like they were straight up and down the board, even though the rings are not on the face of the board. However the rings are straight on the narrow side, with no rings pushing up to either face of the board. Am I mistaken that rings and grain can follow a different path?

Posts: 1669 Jan 12 11 2:33 PM R e ply Q uote More

HCOnline, I was thinking that even though red oak may be stronger in tension than compression, with the possiablility of grain run out, the back to this bow may be weaker than normal, so I wanted to compensate for that on the belly. What I will do then is leave the belly and back alone, not trap either, but make sure I have well rounded corners. In consideration of other posting here I will go with a 60 inch bow, and make it 3 inches wide, and taper down to 1 inch at the tips. It will have 8 inch non bending section,leaving 52 inches of limbs, 26 inches per limb. 2/3 of the limbs will work, making a 17.5 inch working limb and 8.5 inch lever. My goal is still 80 lbs at 28 inches, but because I dont have a scale I may fall a bit above or below target weight, but I will get close as possiable. I am not sure if I will back it. I'm doing this to see how the board takes this stress, A backing may insure the back doesnt fly apart, but I want to see if it will or not. If it works after about 100 shots, I may back it just to be extra safe. I would hate for this bow to break due to improper handling. I will draw out the design, post it and modify according to post on here before I start cutting. Just remember, I am trying to make a bow that will function, but also pushing the extreems in the process. I dont want to play it safe in making this, I want to make this bow and be smart about it, but I dont want to be in a comfort zone, where I know it will work. This is for experiment. I am making this bow with different thinking than a bow I really want to shoot and enjoy for years.

sleek

#15 [-]

Ok, I just did a little experiment with this board. I cut about 4 inches off of the board just ahead of the limb tips to see the ring/grain structure. I then stood that 4 inch piece up and started paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/41086/80-lb-red-oak-board-bow-2#.UiQF4jaTgWY 6/9

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Posts: 1669 Jan 12 11 9:50 PM R e ply Q uote More

80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum of the limb tips to see the ring/grain structure. I then stood that 4 inch piece up and started spliting 1/4 inch pieces off the side with my knife I had made. The thinking was that any grain curvature would be followed by the split. I then turned the now somewhat slimmer piece longways and split it completely in half longways. Every split was perfectly straight up and down, and flat. I think if the grain was running off the split would have followed the grain and not have been straight. I will say that perhaps I should try a longer piece for this experiment, and I will, maybe a foot long, just to make sure any grain variation becomes obvious. This would them prove to me the quality of board I have I think.

radius

#16 [-] best of luck. in the one picture which is horizontal, you can see the tendency of the growth rings to run upwards? see how that one runs right out of the board? That's what Jawge is talking about. If he says it's not a good choice for a heavy bow, listen to him, he has alot of experience with red oak board bows and has picked through the pile a million times. I love that little osage holmegaard, too, but that's osage. It outclasses red oak as a bow wood completely. You can make 80# bows from osage sawdust. But if you want to see what it's like to make and pull 80# bows on a regular basis, you need to find better wood. That's half the fun!

Posts: 1690 Jan 13 11 2:31 AM R e ply Q uote More

Every now and then someone will pull off a red oak board bow that kicks ass, but that wood scares me. I got some free a few months ago and made a pyramid bow. It was 66" long and light light light, maybe 30# maximum, and i was nervous every time i drew it. Got rid of that thing. I think you have a fair piece of wood there. If possible, put the grain run out in the non bending section.

badger5149

#17 [-] Sleek, I have made plenty of 60# red oak bows that were 2" wide and 60" long so at 3" wide you have a good chance of hitting it. A little much but very possible. Just monitor the set as you build the bow, if it starts to get excessive simply lower the draw weight.

Posts: 5375 Jan 13 11 5:04 AM R e ply Q uote More

George Tsoukalas leek, I look on the edge too but the edge grain usually mimics the grain of the face. Jawge

#18 [-]

http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/

Posts: 4990 Jan 13 11 5:31 AM R e ply Q uote More

NTProf

#19 [-] Some of my best and sturdiest bows have been from red oak boards. I still look for good ones when I go by the lumber stacks.

Posts: 226 Jan 13 11 6:46 AM R e ply Q uote More

sleek

#20 [-]

Alright, I now see what everybody is talking about, I see the grain on the narrow side pushing up to the back of the board/bow. I also see that it is more bad on one side than the other. I hate to do this, but I am thinking of backing the bow now. Backing kind of messes up the heart of this experiment. Will the wood take the stress without breaking, being what I want to find out. Backing it is cheating, but I think still it would be an experiment in tiller, as I am going to make it bend most where the wood is widest, and least where it is narrowest. I know that sounds like what everybody does, but my intentions are to make it bend most near the handle as that is the thickest part and reduce the amount of bend as I approach the tips to the point of Posts: 1669 no bend in the last 8 inches. I want the wood to work, no useless mass is my goal. Backing it paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/topic/41086/80-lb-red-oak-board-bow-2#.UiQF4jaTgWY 7/9

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Posts: 1669 Jan 13 11 9:04 PM R e ply Q uote More

80 lb red oak board bow #2 in Archery - Primitive Bows Forum no bend in the last 8 inches. I want the wood to work, no useless mass is my goal. Backing it wont ruin that part of the experiment. I have jute string that I have used very sucessfully in the past to lay over large splinters and keep the bow safe. I think that is what I will go with unless there are any other sugestions? Here is a pic of half the bow. The line across the top is where the limbs will stop bending. Any thoughts, ideas, sugestions, comments, rude remarks???

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