Ralph Simms Testimony Part 2

Case 2:07-cr-01215-SJO Document 743 Filed 11/25/2008 Page 1 of 79
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
WESTERN DIVISION
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) CASE NO: CR-07-01215(A)-SJO

)
Plaintiff, ) CRIMINAL
)
vs. ) Los Angeles, California
)
KENYAN TERRANCE PAYNE, SR., ) Monday, November 24, 2008
ET AL., ) (9:15 a.m. to 11:30 a.m.)
)
Defendants. ) MORNING SESSION
JURY TRIAL
BEFORE THE HONORABLE S. JAMES OTERO,

UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
Appearances: See next page
Court Recorder: Margarita Lopez
Deputy Clerk: Victor P. Cruz
Transcribed by: Exceptional Reporting Services, Inc.

14493 S. Padre Island Drive
Suite A-400
Corpus Christi, TX 78418-5940
361 949-2988
Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording;

transcript produced by transcription service.
EXCEPTIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC
2
APPEARANCES FOR:
The Government: ROSALIND WANG, ESQ.

KERRY C. O’NEILL, ESQ.
WILLIAM CROWFOOT, ESQ.
Assistant United States Attorney
312 North Spring Street
Los Angeles, CA 90012
FBI: Agent James Smith
Oscar Dillon: JOHN P. ROGERS, ESQ.

Attorney at Law
120 S. Central, Suite 130
St. Louis, MO 63105
MICHAEL MERESAK, ESQ.
Tracy Prince: ROBERT M. ROSS, ESQ.

Klass, Helman, and Ross
16133 Ventura Blvd., Suite 1145
Encino, CA 91436
Roy Burris: DAVID KALYONIDES, ESQ.

624 South Grand Ave., Suite 2200
Demond Lee: PETER CARL SWARTH, ESQ.

4804 Laurel Canyon Blvd., Suite 232
North Hollywood, CA 91607
Bernard Beard: JAMES PERNELL COOPER, III, ESQ.

5777 W. Century Blvd., Suite 750

3
1 INDEX
2 GOVERNMENT’S WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS
3 RALPH SIMMS 19 -- -- --
4 GOVERNMENT’S EXHIBITS RECEIVED
5 207 36
6 208 36
7 210 36
8 211 36
9 212 36
10 215 through 245 37
11 247 37
12 248 37
13 251 37
14 252 37
15 253 37
16 257 37
17 259 37
18 260 37
19 264 37
20 268 37
21 271 37
22
23
24
25
4
1 Los Angeles, California; Monday, November 24, 2008; 9:15 a.m.
2 (Morning Session)
3 (Call to Order)
4 THE CLERK: Come to order, this Court is now in
5 session.
6 THE COURT: Please have a seat. Thank you. We’re
7 back on the record on United States versus Payne, et al. All
8 Defendants are present with Counsel and Counsel for the
9 Government is present; the jury is not. I’ve been informed
10 that our Defendant witness has not been brought to court today,
11 is that correct?
12 THE CLERK: He’s not here yet. He’ll be here
13 shortly.
14 THE COURT: Mr. Simms is -- will arrive when?
15 MS. WANG: The estimate was 9:30, your Honor.
16 THE COURT: And the Government has no other
17 witnesses?
18 MS. WANG: We don’t have any others right now, your
19 Honor.
20 THE COURT: Well, who do you intend to call next?
21 MS. WANG: Our next witness would be Troy Zirker.
22 THE COURT: Will be who?
23 MS. WANG: Troy Zirker. And we can have him here,
24 but it will take a little bit of time for him to get here.
25 THE COURT: And then who -- who follows Mr. Zirker?

5
1 MS. WANG: I think we would call Andy Lindhold and
2 Daniel Corral.
3 THE COURT: Daniel -- you said Daniel?
4 MS. WANG: Daniel Corral, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: And then I’ve been informed that
6 alternate number two has informed the Clerk of the Court that
7 her son may have been a customer of Mr. Prince at his barber
8 shop. Apparently, her -- she recalled that over the weekend
9 and has informed the Clerk of the Court. So, I would suggest
10 that we bring her in to inquire further while we’re waiting for
11 Mr. Simms to arrive. Agreed?
12 MR. KALOYANIDES: Yes.
13 MS. WANG: Yes.
14 THE COURT: Agreed? Is there anybody that objects to
15 that?
16 MR. SWARTH: Agreed.
17 THE COURT: (To clerk) Victor?
18 THE CLERK: Yes, your Honor?
19 THE COURT: Does the jury know that we’re waiting for
20 a witness?
21 THE CLERK: I didn’t explain to them why, I told them
22 we’re running a little behind.
23 THE COURT: Okay.
24 (Pause)
25 (Alternate Juror Two enters Courtroom at 9:19 a.m.)

6
1 THE COURT: Would you just state your name, please,
2 for the record?
3 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: My name is Sandra Scates.
4 THE COURT: Ms. Scates, the Clerk has informed that
5 over the weekend you recalled that your son may have been a
6 customer or attended the barber shop that was referenced in the
7 course of the trial -- I think Mr. Prince is the barber. Is
8 that accurate information?
9 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: I don’t know who the
10 barber is or was, but it has come to my attention that yes,
11 about 12 or 13 years ago, my son got his hair cut at a shop in
12 Carson.
13 THE COURT: And --
14 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: I never met the barber
15 because my son was a teenager.
16 THE COURT: Were you present at the barber shop
17 yourself?
18 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: No, I would wait in the
19 parking lot for him to come out.
20 THE COURT: And about how many times did he have his
21 hair cut there? Approximately?
22 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: maybe once or twice a
23 month.
24 THE COURT: Do you know if there’s more than one
25 barber at --
7
1 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: I don’t know any details,
2 sir. My son was a teenager and he did not want his mommy in
3 the shop with him.
4 (Laughter)
5 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: So, I would call him on
6 his cell phone and ask him if he was ready and I would wait in
7 the far corner of a parking lot.
8 (Laughter)
9 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: So, I have no idea what it
10 looked like or who it was in there; how it was set up or --
11 THE COURT: Is there anything that you ever saw,
12 heard, discussed that could in any way influence your decision
13 making here?
14 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: No, sir.
15 THE COURT: Have you had any discussions with your
16 son since the start of the trial regarding the barber shop?
17 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: No, sir. We were
18 admonished not to discuss it with anyone.
19 THE COURT: Is there anything else?
20 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: No, sir.
21 THE COURT: Okay, thank you.
22 (Alternate Juror Two leaves Courtroom at 9:21 a.m.)
23 THE COURT: Are there any other matters to address?
24 MS. WANG: Yes, your Honor. First of all, in terms
25 of scheduling for this week, we’re currently on schedule as we

8
1 estimated. The only thing is that the Defense has estimated
2 that they will have Simms on for the rest of the week, the rest
3 of these three days, and we wanted to ask the Court whether you
4 wanted us to have our out-of-towners fly in for this week in
5 case we were out of witnesses on Wednesday.
6 THE COURT: Well, I think the Government needs to
7 have some additional witnesses.
8 MS. WANG: We’ll have local witnesses, as many as we
9 can here for next week. But -- I’m sorry -- for this week.
10 But that still runs the risk that if Simms runs really short we
11 might run out of witnesses on Wednesday.
12 THE COURT: I don’t want to run out of witnesses.
13 We’ll end at 3:00 o’clock on Wednesday.
14 MS. WANG: 3:00 o’clock? All right, your Honor.
15 MR. ROGERS: Your Honor?
16 THE COURT: Yes.
17 MR. ROGERS: I --
18 THE COURT: Mr. Rodgers, yes.
19 MR. ROGERS: Just a scheduling issue for me, because
20 I can catch a flight; at 5:30 Wednesday night is the last
21 flight to St. Louis. Are we going to end at 3:00 o’clock no
22 matter what?
23 THE COURT: Yes.
24 MR. ROGERS: Okay. So that would --
25 THE COURT: Does that give you enough time to --

9
1 MR. ROGERS: Does it?
2 MR. SPEAKER: No.
3 MR. SPEAKER: If I’m driving.
4 (Laughter)
5 THE COURT: Where are you heading to?
6 MR. SPEAKER: Everybody’s shaking their head no.
7 THE COURT: Where are you heading to?
8 MR. ROGERS: To St. Louis. I go out of LAX.
9 THE COURT: Okay. Why don’t we -- we can stop at
10 2:00 o’clock.
11 MR. ROGERS: Thank you.
12 MR. SWARTH: Your Honor, if I may, I had brought to
13 the Clerk’s attention that I have what I believe is a discovery
14 problem. If I may --
15 THE COURT: Please.
16 MR. SWARTH: -- flush it out. On Friday, a number of
17 us were allowed into the offices of the United States Attorney
18 to conduct an informal interview of Mr. Simms. During my
19 questioning of Mr. Simms, he indicated that some new facts that
20 I was not aware of regarding some money he says my client
21 brought from St. Louis to him.
22 I inquired further about when he had disclosed this -
23 - and my notes are a little unclear. I seemed to have taken
24 note that it was disclosed in one of his proffer sessions.
25 Over the weekend, I sent an e-mail to the U.S. Attorney asking

10
1 to identify when that occurred, because I could not find it in
2 any of my notes or any of the discovery that I had. I received
3 an e-mail back saying that no, this was something that came up
4 during prep for trial.
5 Now, these are statements of Mr. Simms. They are
6 inconsistent with his other statements. But for the fact that
7 I was in this meeting on Friday, I would never have known about
8 them. I am very upset and I am wondering if the Court can aid
9 me in getting those statements or excluding them so that they
10 cannot be used against my client. Because clearly, the
11 Prosecution intended not to share them with me. And what I
12 think is ultimate bad faith, putting my client at a severe
13 disadvantage. It has already had an impact in that these are
14 the kinds of facts that I should have known about because they
15 would have affected my cross-examination of Mr. Smith. And
16 that has now passed and I’m in the position of having to call
17 Mr. Smith as a new witness on Direct.
18 I ask for the Court’s assistance.
19 THE COURT: I’m not sure what you’re requesting.
20 MR. SWARTH: Well, I’m asking for an Order to the
21 Prosecution to reduce Mr. Simms statements to writing so that I
22 may have them to cross-examine him with them, at the very
23 least. If not that, then I ask that the statements be
24 excluded.
25 THE COURT: Has -- these are not written statements

11
1 previously made by Mr. Simms, am I correct?
2 MR. SWARTH: That’s my understanding.
3 THE COURT: In the Q and A of Mr. Simms on Friday, he
4 mentioned additional information that you were not aware of
5 previously, is that --
6 MR. SWARTH: Correct.
7 THE COURT: Does the Government have any response?
8 MS. WANG: Your Honor, the Government does not
9 believe they are inconsistent statements. When there are
10 inconsistent statements that come up during trial prep, that’s
11 something that we do turn over. .Otherwise, we turn over
12 everything that’s written and recorded as required under Jencks
13 and Rule 16.
14 That particular statement that Defense Counsel is
15 referring to is Ralph Simms’s interpretation of a call on July
16 23rd, 2007. That’s a call that’s charged in the Indictment.
17 It’s a call in which it says that Simms told Lee he had given
18 Corral money contributed by Lee and some of his own money to
19 purchase cocaine. So, it’s -- you know -- it’s in the
20 Indictment. The Defense has received the actual telephone
21 call; they’ve received the transcript of the call. And so --
22 it’s not --
23 THE COURT: And there’s nothing more to turn over?
24 Is that your point?
25 MS. WANG: We turn over everything that’s written or

12
1 recorded.
2 THE COURT: Okay.
3 MR. SWARTH: Your Honor, if I may? This is Jenks.
4 THE COURT: They have turned over every written
5 document they have.
6 MR. SWARTH: Well, yes. But they have deliberately
7 not created written documents of items that should be turned
8 over. And I think that they’re hiding behind that. That --
9 well, this came up in preparation. But it is a statement; it
10 is a new statement. It is an interpretive statement, according
11 to the prosecution, but it is new information. To say that a
12 statement by Mr. Simms that my client brought $69,000 to him in
13 June of’07, that is not -- that’s not even an interpretation of
14 the phone call. But if one reads it as an interpretation of
15 the phone call, which mentions no number and simply says in the
16 course of the call, apparently Mr. Simms is relating to
17 Mr. Lee, I gave my money along with the money you gave me.
18 It doesn’t -- it’s completely new information.
19 THE COURT: I would just --
20 MR. ROGERS: Your Honor, may I be heard on this
21 issue?
22 THE COURT: I would just remind Counsel regarding the
23 Court’s standing order concerning discovery that needs to be
24 turned over. And that’s all covered on page -- commencing on
25 page three. If there’s a violation of that, the Court will

13
1 entertain proper motion at the proper time.
2 Yes, Mr. Rogers?
3 MR. ROGERS: Thank you, your Honor. Just for
4 purposes of the record, I think the Government’s representation
5 -- we were also, and Mr. Meresak was present during that
6 meeting and we’ve discovered that while no agents were taking
7 notes during the time period in preparation for trial, that Ms.
8 Wang was taking notes. And I find it -- I would call into
9 question the Government’s statements that they will turn over
10 what they believe is an inconsistent statement per Jenks .
11 But they will not turn over any other hand written notes that
12 they interpret as consistent with factual statements consistent
13 with the witness’s statement. Under the -- I assume, under the
14 argument that that is work product. I disagree and would just
15 like to make it noted for the record. I believe if it’s not
16 work -- if it’s not impressions, trial strategy written on this
17 notes, and those are factual statements coming out of the mouth
18 of a perspective witness, that that is -- their obligation
19 under both Rule 16 and Jenks to not only generate those hand
20 written notes into some form of a redacted report; certainly to
21 turn those over to all Defense Attorneys prior to the
22 commencement of trial.
23 THE COURT: Did the Government take a statement of
24 Mr. Simms?
25 MS. WANG: I -- when I was talking to him about the

14
1 calls that we were going to place on at trial, I took my own
2 notes --
3 THE COURT: Regarding --
4 MS. WANG: -- as to what he said.
5 THE COURT: -- his statement?
6 MS. WANG: Exactly.
7 THE COURT: And have you produced those to Counsel
8 for the Defendant?
9 MS. WANG: I have not, because those are my own
10 notes.
11 THE COURT: Your notes regarding his statements?
12 MS. WANG: That’s correct.
13 THE COURT: Any other information, impressions
14 contained in your notes?
15 MS. WANG: I’m sure there’s other information there.
16 THE COURT: Anything else?
17 MR. KALOYANIDES: Your Honor, on behalf of
18 Mr. Burris, I join and I don’t have a specific instance as
19 Mr. Swarth has, but AUSA Wang did, when I inquired, when I
20 first met with Mr. Simms a week prior to this last Friday, she
21 did inform me that it was the practice not to take notes during
22 these trial prep sessions. However, just to echo Mr. Rogers
23 point, if there are actual notes of statements, even if the
24 piece of paper has attorney impressions, those impressions can
25 under the rules be redacted, but the statements themselves are

15
1 producible. And the question here is whether or not the
2 Government is actively avoiding its Jenks responsibility in
3 Rule 16, the responsibility by taking a policy position of not
4 taking notes, which would otherwise be discoverable in order to
5 avoid providing the Defense with what it’s entitled to. But
6 here, I think what we have is clear, that there are notes of
7 the statement. There are recorded statements. Whether or not
8 there are privileged protected work product would be up to the
9 Court. And perhaps the Court should review these notes in
10 camera and make the decision.
11 THE COURT: Well, yeah. I would invite Counsel to
12 make a formal written motion, then the Court will consider the
13 motion. And any requests or remedy that you would like the
14 Court to entertain, please feel free to make it.
15 Mr. -- do we have a new ETA on Mr. Simms? Do we know
16 when he’s going to be here?
17 MARSHAL SCOTT: Your Honor, he should be here within
18 the next five, ten minutes.
19 THE COURT: Is he in the building?
20 MARSHAL SCOTT: No, your Honor. He’s around the
21 corner.
22 THE COURT: He’s still at MBC?
23 MARSHAL SCOTT: No. He’s coming from Santa Ana City
24 Jail and they were in route with him. I spoke to them about
25 ten minutes ago and they were passed -- about in Commerce. So,
16
1 it’ll be another five, ten minutes before they get here.
2 THE COURT: Why was he late today?
3 MARSHAL SCOTT: He was - he was left off the
4 calendar, your Honor.
5 THE COURT: Pardon?
6 MARSHAL SCOTT: He was left off the calendar, your
7 Honor. It was made -- when I came in this morning, and checked
8 to see if he was here, he was not here. He was left at Santa
9 Ana City Jail. So, I --
10 THE COURT: So, whose fault was it? Was it Santa Ana
11 or was it the Marshals here?
12 MARSHAL SCOTT: It was our fault, your Honor.
13 THE COURT: And what did the Marshals office fail to
14 do?
15 MARSHAL SCOTT: Failed to put him on the list, your
16 Honor.
17 THE COURT: Last week, you --
18 MARSHAL SCOTT: Yes, on Friday, your Honor.
19 THE COURT: Is there anything else that we can
20 handle?
21 MR. ROGERS: A quick and easy matter, your Honor. I
22 -- the Government has asked me to request from the Court, and
23 we’re in agreement. There are plea negotiations or Plea
24 Agreements as it pertains to both Mr. Ralph Simms and
25 Mr. Daniel Corral. Those agreements were previously filed

17
1 under seal. I am not sure if that filing or if they’ve been
2 removed from that status. In any event, I intend to introduce
3 those -- both those documents into evidence. I think it will
4 aid the jury in the subject matter that I will get into in
5 cross. The Government has some concerns though, that if
6 they’re admitted into evidence, their protective order making
7 sure that we don’t disseminate that as defense attorneys to our
8 clients or any other individuals is still the order of the
9 Court. So, if you would order that, they are in agreement that
10 I can proceed with doing as I requested.
11 THE COURT: So, you are requesting that they be
12 produced? Yes?
13 MR. ROGERS: They’ve been produced. I’m simply
14 requesting --
15 THE COURT: For attorneys eyes only?
16 MR. ROGERS: Yes, sir.
17 THE COURT: Any objection to that?
18 MR. ROGERS: And I think they want them not
19 disseminated to our clients, also.
20 MS. WANG: No objection, your Honor.
21 THE COURT: Okay. They’re to be produced, attorneys
22 eyes only.
23 MR. ROGERS: Thank you.
24 THE COURT: Okay, and we’ll just wait for Mr. Simms.
25 THE CLERK: Court’s in Recess.

18
1 (A recess was taken from 9:35 a.m. to 9:45; parties
2 present)
3 THE CLERK: Your Honor, I’m going to bring the jury
4 in now.
5 (The jury entered the courtroom at 9:46 a.m.)
6 THE COURT: Okay. We have the jury reassembled with
7 the alternates. All counsel are present. Please have a seat.
8 We continue with the matter of The United States
9 versus Mr. Beard, Prince, Dillon, Burris, and Lee. All
10 defendants are present with counsel.
11 We’re starting late today because someone failed to
12 notify the facility where the witness is being housed that he
13 was required to be here this morning at 9:30, so he was late in
14 arriving, and that’s why we’re starting a bit late this
15 morning. I think we have new seats for our alternates.
16 Hopefully, they’re more comfortable. That was done over the
17 weekend.
18 We continue with the direct examination of the
19 witness. I believe we started with the witness, Mr. Simms, on
20 Friday at 11:35 when we stopped at 12:00 o’clock.
21 Your witness.
22 MS. WANG: Thank you, your Honor.
23 RALPH SIMMS, GOVERNMENT’S WITNESS, PREVIOUSLY SWORN
24 //
25 //
Simms - Direct / By Ms. Wang 19
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION (CONTINUED)
2 BY MS. WANG:
3 Q Mr. Simms, when we last left off --
4 THE COURT: I’d just remind him he’s under oath.
5 THE CLERK: I’m sorry. Sir, once again, you’re
6 reminded you’re still under oath. For the record, would you
7 please state your name and then spell your last name.
8 THE WITNESS: Ralph Simms, S-I-M-M-S.
9 THE CLERK: Thank you, sir.
10 THE COURT: Go ahead.
11 BY MS. WANG:
12 Q Mr. Simms, when we last left off, we were talking about
13 Oscar Dillon and Demetrius Flenory.
14 A Yes.
15 Q Was there any legitimate business relationship, that you
16 are aware of, between Demetrius Flenory and Oscar Dillon?
17 A Not that I know of.
18 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Speculation.
19 MR. SWARTH: Objection.
20 THE COURT: He’s responded to the question. The
21 response stands.
22 BY MS. WANG:
23 Q Did you ever have a business relationship with Oscar
24 Dillon? Any kind of business relationship.
25 A Yes.
1 Q What kind of relationship did you have?
2 A I used to broker deals for cocaine.
3 Q During what time period were you brokering deals for
4 cocaine for Oscar Dillon?
5 A December, ’05, to around the time I was incarcerated.
6 Q And is that November, 2007?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Prior to the indictment in this case, did you know Oscar
9 Dillon’s real name?
10 A No.
11 Q Did you only know him by his nicknames?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Did you ever have a legitimate business relationship with
14 Oscar Dillon?
15 A No.
16 Q When was the first time that you brokered a cocaine
17 transaction for Oscar Dillon?
18 A December, ’05.
19 Q All right. And where were you living in December, ’05?
20 A Lakewood, California.
21 Q How long did you live at Lakewood?
22 A A year and a half.
23 Q And where was Oscar Dillon the first time that you
24 brokered a cocaine transaction for him?
25 A St. Louis.
1 Q That first transaction: How much cocaine was that for?
2 A Ten or 12 kilos.
3 Q And how did Dillon pay for the cocaine?
4 A Cash.
5 Q How much cash?
6 A I think it was like a hundred and ninety-some thousand.
7 Q What was the price per kilogram?
8 A Fourteen thousand.
9 Q And did you, in fact, send cocaine to Dillon for that
10 transaction?
11 A Yes.
12 Q How did you get the cocaine to Dillon in St. Louis?
13 A He had his own driver.
14 Q Who was the driver of that truck? Or, I’m sorry; who was
15 his driver?
16 A Bobby Ramsey, Sr.
17 MR. ROGERS: I’m sorry; I could not hear.
18 THE WITNESS: Bobby Ramsey, Sr.
19 BY MS. WANG:
20 Q And what did Bobby Ramsey, Sr. drive?
21 A A Excursion, I believe.
22 Q Is that an SUV?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And did Dillon give you the cash?
25 A Yes.
1 Q How did he get the cash to you?
2 A I met him somewhere and picked it up.
3 Q You met who somewhere and picked it up?
4 A Dillon.
5 Q Where in Ramsey’s truck would you store the cocaine?
6 A In the back, at the very back of it.
7 Q Was there a --
8 A It was a secret compartment at the very back of it.
9 Q At the back of the SUV?
10 A Yes.
11 Q You’ll have to actually answer instead of nodding.
12 A Yes.
13 Q Did you make any profit from that 10 to 12-kilogram
14 transaction?
15 A Yes.
16 Q How much did you make?
17 A I think like $7,000.
18 Q Okay. Did you have any arrangement with Oscar Dillon as
19 to what your fee would be?
20 A Yes.
21 Q What was that arrangement?
22 A Five hundred dollars per kilo.
23 Q Did Dillon have a supplier in St. Louis that you are aware
24 of?
25 A No.
1 Q And why did Dillon order cocaine from you in Los Angeles?
2 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Calls for speculation. No
3 proper foundation.
4 MR. SWARTH: Objection. Hearsay.
5 THE COURT: If you know, you can answer.
6 THE WITNESS: I guess there wasn’t none there to get.
7 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Speculative.
8 THE COURT: Sustained.
9 BY MS. WANG:
10 Q What is the typical price of cocaine in Los Angeles during
11 this time period?
12 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection. Lacks foundation.
13 THE COURT: Well, you can lay some foundation.
14 BY MR. WANG:
15 Q Are you familiar with cocaine prices?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Are you familiar with cocaine prices in Los Angeles?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And were you conducting cocaine transactions in end of
20 December, beginning of 2006 -- I’m sorry -- end of 2005 and
21 beginning of 2006?
22 A Yes.
23 Q What was the typical price of a kilogram of cocaine in Los
24 Angeles around that time period?
1 Q Do you know what the typical price is in St. Louis?
2 A No. Not really.
3 Q Do you know whether it’s a higher or a lower price in
4 St. Louis?
5 A Higher.
6 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Speculative.
7 THE COURT: The response stands.
8 BY MS. WANG:
9 Q When was the next time you got cocaine for Oscar Dillon
10 after that 10 to 12-kilo deal?
11 A I think it might have been like two weeks later or so.
12 Q And how much cocaine was that for?
13 A I think anywhere -- 20, I believe.
14 THE COURT: You need to speak louder, please.
15 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
16 BY MS. WANG:
17 Q How did Dillon pay for the 20 kilos?
18 A Cash.
19 Q How much cash?
20 A I’m not for sure.
21 Q Do you recall how much per kilogram it was?
23 Q And did he actually receive that cocaine?
24 A Yes.
25 Q Did you send it to him?

1 A Well, I gave it to his driver.
2 Q And who was the driver?
3 A Ramsey.
4 Q After that 20-kilo transaction, when was the next time you
5 brokered a deal for Oscar Dillon?
6 A I think it was like a couple weeks later.
7 Q So, in 2006, including that December, 2005, transaction,
8 how many times total did you get cocaine for Oscar Dillon?
9 A Could you repeat that?
10 Q From the end of 2005 to -- through 2006, how many times
11 total did you get cocaine for Oscar Dillon?
12 A Probably about ten times; eight -- between eight and ten
13 times.
14 Q Eight to --
15 A Between eight and ten times, I believe.
16 Q Who was the supplier of that eight to ten times? Who did
17 you get cocaine from?
18 A I got it from two different people: one from a guy named
19 Little D, and the other ones from Kenyan Payne.
20 Q In 2006, how frequently did Oscar Dillon get cocaine from
21 you?
22 A Anywhere from every two weeks to once a month.
23 Q And how much cocaine total, approximately, did you get for
24 Dillon end of 2005 to 2006?
25 A It probably was at least a couple hundred kilos.

1 Q And in 2006, did all of those transactions result in you
2 sending Dillon cocaine?
3 A All except one.
4 Q And what was that one?
5 A One was when a guy stiffed me and gave me some drywall.
6 Q When was that?
7 A December of ’06.
8 Q And how much cocaine was that transaction supposed to be
9 for?
10 A Forty kilos.
11 Q Mr. Simms, are you a convicted felon?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What do you have convictions for?
14 A Second-degree murder, conspiracy, drug conspiracy, and ex-
15 felon in possession of a firearm.
16 Q The drug conspiracy you mentioned: Is that for this case?
17 A Yes.
18 Q When were you convicted of second-degree murder?
19 A I was charged in, I believe it was ’85, ’86, and I got
20 convicted in like ’88.
21 Q How much time did you spend in prison for that?
22 A Seventeen and a half, 18 years; somewhere around there.
23 Q What year did you get out of prison?
24 A Two thousand three.
25 Q And were you arrested again once you got out of prison?
1 A Yes.
2 Q What was that for?
3 A Felon in possession of firearms; ex-felon in possession of
4 firearms.
5 Q And what did you do after you got arrested for having a
6 firearm?
7 A Well, I made bond. Then, after I made bond, I went on a
8 run.
9 Q Where did you go when you went on the run?
10 A To Atlanta.
11 Q And is that where you --
12 A Atlanta, Georgia.
13 Q And what did you do for employment once you went to
14 Atlanta, Georgia?
15 A I started working for Demetrius Fleming -- Flenory.
16 Q Have you ever used any other names, other than Ralph Simms
17 or Paco?
18 A Leslie Parker.
19 Q And is that a real or a false name?
20 A A false name; alias.
21 Q And why did you use a false name?
22 A Because I was on the run.
23 Q Let’s go back to your transactions with Dillon in 2006.
24 How did you communicate with Oscar Dillon?
25 A Cell phone.
1 Q And in 2006, what cell phone did you use to communicate
2 with Dillon?
3 A Oh, I had a couple; I don’t know.
4 Q Did you talk to anyone else using the cell phones you had
5 for Dillon in 2006?
6 A No.
7 Q How many cell phones did you use yourself, personally, in
8 2006?
9 A I think like three.
10 Q Do you mean three at a time or three total for the year?
11 A Three total.
12 Q How many would you have at any one time?
13 A That’s what I mean. Three.
14 Q Oh. How many total did you have for 2006?
15 A Maybe five.
16 Q Would you change the cell phone that you used with Dillon?
17 A Yes.
18 Q How often did you change your number with you -- between
19 you and Oscar Dillon?
20 A Once a month.
21 Q And why did you change it once a month?
22 A Didn’t want to take a chance that the law enforcement
23 might have had them tapped.
24 Q Was that your idea or Dillon’s idea to change it that
25 frequently?
1 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Speculation.
2 THE COURT: No; you can answer.
3 THE WITNESS: I don’t really know. It was just
4 something that we was used to doing.
5 BY MS. WANG:
6 Q Who would pay for the phone that you used with Dillon?
7 A Sometimes I would; sometimes he would.
8 Q And what subscriber name did you use on your cell phone
9 with Dillon?
10 A Well, it was made up. I don’t know.
11 Q And why did you make up a name for your subscriber?
12 A Because I couldn’t use my own name, because I was on the
13 run.
14 Q You said earlier there was a transaction in December,
15 2006, where Dillon ended up not getting the cocaine; is that
16 right?
17 A Yes.
19 A Forty kilos.
20 Q And when did that occur?
21 A December of ’06.
22 Q Did Dillon give you money to buy the 40 kilograms of
23 cocaine?
24 A Yes.
25 Q How much money did he give you?

1 A I think like 560,000.
2 Q Did anyone else give you money for cocaine in that
3 transaction?
4 A One other guy, yeah.
5 Q And the other guy: How much cocaine did that person want?
6 A One kilogram.
7 Q How did Dillon get the cash to you for that transaction?
8 A His driver.
9 MS. WANG: Your Honor, I’m going to publish
10 Exhibit 186.
11 (Pause)
13 (Pause)
14 BY MS. WANG:
15 Q Okay. Can you look on the screen? Can you tell me who
16 that is?
17 A Kenyan Payne.
18 Q And what was your relationship to Kenyan Payne?
19 A A friend. I used to buy cocaine from him.
20 Q How long have you known Kenyan Payne?
21 A Since ’04 or ’05.
22 Q And when did you start buying cocaine from Kenyan Payne?
23 A O-six.
24 Q Did Kenyan Payne ever supply the cocaine you sent to
25 Dillon?
1 A Yes.
2 Q In December, 2006, when Dillon gave you around $500,000 to
3 buy the 40 kilos, what did you do with that money?
4 A I gave it to Payne.
5 Q And what did Payne do with the money?
6 A He went to buy cocaine.
7 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection. Lack of foundation.
8 MR. ROGERS: Objection. Speculation. No foundation.
9 MR. KALOYANIDES: Move to strike.
10 THE COURT: Motion to strike is granted. The jury is
11 ordered to disregard it for lack of foundation.
12 BY MS. WANG:
13 Q Did you receive anything from Kenyan Payne after you
14 got -- oh. What did you ask Kenyan Payne to do with that
15 money?
16 A I asked him to purchase cocaine for me.
17 Q And did you later receive a shipment from Payne?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And who did you receive that shipment from?
20 A Kenyan Payne.
21 Q Okay. And what was in that delivery?
22 A It was supposed to have been 40 kilograms of cocaine, but
23 it turned out to be 40 kilograms of drywall.
24 Q What is drywall?
25 A It’s a supply that’s used in building a house.

1 Q And how was the drywall packaged?
2 A It was packaged as -- it was packaged up as kilograms of
3 cocaine.
4 Q So, it was fake cocaine.
5 A Yes.
6 Q Did Payne keep the $500,000 from Dillon?
7 A No.
8 Q Did you and Payne try to make it up to Dillon?
9 MR. ROGERS: Your Honor, I object to the Government
10 referring to these questions as “Dillon” when there has been no
11 foundation that this witness can identify him, and there has
12 been testimony that he didn’t know anyone’s name while dealing
13 in this alleged conspiracy.
14 MS. WANG: Your Honor, we did an identification the
15 first --
16 THE COURT: Pardon?
17 MS. WANG: We did an identification the first time.
18 MR. ROGERS: I withdraw it, your Honor. I’m sorry.
19 That was last week. I’ll withdraw the objection.
20 THE COURT: That was last week, yes. He was
21 identified.
22 BY MS. WANG:
23 Q Did you and Kenyan Payne try to make it up to Dillon?
24 A Yes; Payne did.
25 Q How did Payne make it up to him?

1 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection. Lacks foundation, calls
2 for speculation.
3 THE COURT: If you know, you can testify.
4 THE WITNESS: He gave him nine or ten kilograms of
5 cocaine.
6 BY MS. WANG:
7 Q Do you know whether Payne gave him any other cocaine other
8 than that nine or ten kilos?
9 A No.
10 Q You’re not aware?
11 A No. That was -- that was what he gave him.
12 Q Could you take a look, please, at Government’s Exhibits
13 207 to 271. They’re in the RedWeld folders, and he may need
14 assistance.
15 THE CLERK: What’s the exhibit again?
16 MS. WANG: Two-o-seven to 271. They’re in the
17 RedWelds.
18 (Pause)
19 MS. WANG: And while you’re up there, could you also
20 take a look at the Government’s transcript exhibits, which are
21 207-A to 271-A.
22 (Pause)
23 BY MS. WANG:
24 Q Could you turn back to 207 to 207-A? Do you have that in
25 front of you? The physical exhibit.

1 A Two-o-seven.
2 Q Of the actual -- the actual CD.
3 A Yes.
4 Q Yes. Do you recognize that?
5 A Yes.
6 Q What is it?
7 A A CD, a voice -- with all of the voice conversations,
8 phone conversations.
9 Q And have you listened to the calls on that CD?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And when you looked through the transcript, Exhibits 207
12 to 271-A, did you recognize those exhibits?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And what are those?
15 A They are the printout from the conversations.
16 Q And have you reviewed the transcripts for accuracy while
17 listening to the calls on that CD?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And how do you know those are the transcripts that you
20 reviewed?
21 A My signature.
22 Q On the transcripts?
23 A Yes.
24 MS. WANG: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit
25 Exhibits 207 to 271.

1 THE COURT: Two-o-seven to two seventy --
2 MS. WANG: Two seventy-one.
3 THE COURT: -- seventy-one. One moment.
4 MR. KALOYANIDES: Your Honor, there are some gaps in
5 there. They’re not all actual exhibits yet.
6 THE COURT: There are several gaps. Two-o-nine is
7 blank, for example. Two thirteen, blank. So --
8 MS. WANG: All right.
9 THE COURT: -- we need counsel to specify precisely
10 the exhibits you’re offering.
11 MS. WANG: Actually -- yes, your Honor.
12 THE COURT: Two --
13 MS. WANG: Were you --
15 BY MR. WANG:
16 Q Were you able to identify the voices on that CD?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Whose voices were they?
19 A Daniel Corral, Robert Lewis, Martel (phonetic) Byrth,
20 Jeremy Steel, Roy Burris, Tracy Prince, Simms, Payne, Demond
21 Lee, Adam, Demarco Bolen (phonetic), Wayne Joyner.
22 MS. WANG: Your Honor, the Government moves to admit
23 207, 208, 210 through 212, 215 through 245, 247 and 248, 251
24 through 253, 257, 259, 260, 264, 268, and 271.
25 MR. ROGERS: Your Honor, we object. Hearsay. Not in

1 furtherance of a co-conspirator statement. There is no
2 foundation that’s been laid to establish such.
3 John Rogers on behalf of Oscar Dillon, your Honor.
4 MR. SWARTH: Join on behalf of Mr. Lee.
5 MR. KALOYANIDES: Join on behalf of Mr. Burris.
6 MR. ROSS: Join on behalf of Mr. Prince, your Honor.
7 (Pause)
8 THE COURT: Victor, did you get the numbers?
9 THE CLERK: I didn’t get them all, your Honor.
10 THE COURT: Okay. Let’s -- 207 is received over
11 objections; 208 is received.
12 (Government’s Exhibit Numbers 207 and 208 were received in
13 evidence)
14 (Pause)
15 MR. KALOYANIDES: Your Honor, for clarification,
16 these are the numbered exhibits, not the number with the letter
17 “A,” correct?
18 THE COURT: These are the audios, yes, the CD’s.
19 MR. KALOYANIDES: Thank you.
20 THE COURT: Two ten is received; 212 received.
21 (Government’s Exhibit Numbers 210 and 212 were received in
22 evidence)
23 MS. WANG: And also 211, your Honor.
24 THE COURT: Two eleven received.
25 (Government’s Exhibit Number 211 was received in evidence)

1 THE COURT: Two fifteen to 245 -- I’ll just make
2 sure.
3 (Pause)
4 THE COURT: Two fifteen to 245 are received; 247 and
5 248 received; 251, 252, and 253 are received; 257 to 264 are
6 received -- I’m sorry -- 257 received; 259 and 260 received;
7 264 received; 268 received; and 271.
8 (Government’s Exhibit Numbers 215 through 245, 247, 248,
9 251, 252, 253, 257, 259, 260, 264, 268, and 271 were received
10 in evidence)
11 THE COURT: Does that cover them all?
12 MS. WANG: Yes, your Honor. Thank you.
13 BY MS. WANG:
14 Q All right. Mr. Simms, could you please take a -- could
15 you please turn to the transcript, Exhibit 218-A; and just look
16 up when you’re ready.
17 (Pause)
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 BY MS. WANG:
20 Q Do you recognize that?
21 A Yes.
22 Q What is that?
23 A A phone conversation with me and Pops had.
24 Q Do you know Pops’s real name?
25 A Wayne Joyner.
1 Q And if you could look at the face sheet, what’s the date
2 on that call?
3 A Seven -- 7/16/07.
4 Q What is Wayne Joyner’s relationship to you?
5 A We both worked for Demetrius Flenory.
6 Q And in 2007, did you have a business relationship with
7 Wayne Joyner?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And what was that relationship?
10 A Brokering cocaine deals. It was involved with cocaine
11 with --
12 Q Okay.
13 A -- Daniel Corral.
14 MS. WANG: Your Honor, I’d like to publish Exhibit
15 218.
16 THE COURT: Two eighteen A?
17 MS. WANG: Publish the actual call, your Honor, 218.
18 THE COURT: Oh, yes. Go ahead.
19 MS. WANG: And --
20 THE COURT: And has the jury been given transcripts?
21 MS. WANG: Yes, your Honor.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 BY MS. WANG:
24 Q And, Mr. Simms, has this call been redacted for legal
25 purposes?
1 A Ma’am?
2 Q Has this call been redacted for legal purposes?
3 A Yes.
4 (Audio of Government’s Exhibit Number 218 was played from
5 10:14:35 a.m. until 10:20:25 a.m.)
6 MR. ROGERS: Your Honor?
7 THE COURT: Yes.
8 MR. ROGERS: Your Honor, could I ask for a sidebar,
9 please.
10 THE COURT: Yes.
11 (Pause)
12 (Sidebar began at 10:20:59 a.m.)
13 MR. ROGERS: John Rogers on behalf of Oscar Dillon,
14 your Honor.
15 I think I have to, at this point in time, ask for a
16 mistrial. I believe the Government has violated the Court’s
17 earlier motion in limine. Quite frankly, I didn’t catch it
18 until this call came in.
19 Specifically, this call that came in, in Exhibit 218,
20 references an individual named “Gorilla,” who they claim is my
21 client, Mr. Dillon. And then they go on to say through this
22 call, “Is he doing something bad,” talking about this 41-kilo
23 transaction. And then they make reference to that he was to
24 “find that cat that got him,” which I construe as an act of
25 violence directly attributable to the person that’s been

1 previously identified as Oscar Dillon. “Pos’d to find that cat
2 that got him,” I think refers to or implies an act of violence,
3 which I thought the Government was going to stay away from,
4 that I think is directly attributable to my client, and that
5 the Court sustained that motion in the motion in limine.
6 MS. WANG: Your Honor, can I be heard?
7 THE COURT: Uh-huh.
8 MS. WANG: I discussed this call with Simms, and he
9 does -- that does not refer to Oscar Dillon. According to
10 Simms, he -- it was Kenyan Payne who was looking for the
11 supplier who had cheated him. And I also am not going to get
12 into that. If the Court wants, they can -- we can make that
13 explicit.
14 THE COURT: Yeah, make it explicit.
16 THE COURT: Thank you. The motion for mistrial is
17 denied. Let’s continue.
18 (Sidebar concluded at 10:22:44 a.m.)
19 (Pause)
20 BY MS. WANG:
21 Q All right. Mr. Simms, if you look at the bottom of where
22 it says page three on the transcript, there’s a line where
23 Wayne Joyner asks you: “You talked to the gorilla”?
24 A Yes.
25 Q What was your understanding of what Wayne Joyner meant by

1 that?
2 A That’s the way he referred to Dillon, as “the gorilla.”
3 MR. ROGERS: I’m sorry; I can’t hear.
4 THE WITNESS: He referred to Dillon as “gorilla.”
5 That was the nickname he called him.
6 MR. ROGERS: Objection. That’s speculative. Move to
7 strike. No foundation laid.
8 THE COURT: You’re going to have to lay some
9 additional foundation.
10 BY MS. WANG:
11 Q In this call, did you understand when Wayne Joyner asked
12 you if you had talked to the gorilla?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Do you know who Wayne Joyner meant by the “gorilla”?
15 A Yes.
16 MR. ROGERS: Same objection, your Honor.
17 THE COURT: Overruled. Subject to a motion to
18 strike. Go ahead.
19 BY MS. WANG:
20 Q And what was your understanding of who Pops meant -- who
21 Wayne Joyner meant?
22 A Dillon.
23 Q Later in the call on that same page, you said, “He ain’t
24 doing nothing but saying the same shit, same shit about he
25 doing bad. He got to try to figure something out.”

1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q What was -- what did you mean when you said that?
3 A That, you know, that with the losses he had took from the
4 cocaine that, you know, he didn’t have no money and Pops was
5 trying to get me to get him to spend money with him but, you
6 know, he didn’t have any to spend hisself [sic].
7 Q And who do you mean when “he didn’t have any money”?
8 A Dillon.
9 Q Okay. And then on the next page at the top of the page,
10 you said, “You know, with that 41 that time.” What did you
11 mean by that?
12 A I was talking about the 41 kilos where I purchased from
13 Ken and wind up with a dry wall.
14 Q Okay. And then later Wayne Joyner says, “You-all made
15 that other one up though for him, didn’t you?”
16 A Yes.
17 Q What was your understanding of what that meant?
18 A He was asking me did Payne had given him something from
19 that loss.
20 Q In the next line, you say, “Some of it. Some of it, not
21 all of it.” And what did you mean by that?
22 A That they had -- the 9 kilos they had gave him to try to
23 make up for it.
24 Q During that same -- in that same paragraph, you said,
25 “That mother, he was supposed to find that cat got him.” Was
1 it your understanding that Payne was out there looking for the
2 person who had cheated him?
3 A Could you repeat that? I didn’t understand what you were
4 saying.
5 Q Okay. In that same paragraph --
6 A Uh-huh.
7 Q -- “And that old boy that supposed to have done that, they
8 supposed to got him.” Do you see that?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Was it your understanding that Kenyan Payne was out
11 looking for the supplier who had cheated him?
12 A Yes. But when he meant they had got him, he was saying
13 that the guy was arrested.
14 Q Sorry. Could I just stop you there? It’s a “Yes” or “No”
15 question.
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay. Do you know a person named Daniel Corral?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Where does Corral live?
20 A California -- Los Angeles, California.
21 Q And what’s your relationship to Daniel Corral?
22 A We dealt cocaine together.
23 Q Did you know Daniel Corral by any nicknames?
24 A D-nice, Hugo.
25 Q And why did you call Daniel Corral “Hugo”?

1 A He was the boss.
2 Q Like the brand name “Hugo Boss.” Back in 2004 when you
3 were working with Demetrius Flenory, do you know whether there
4 was any relationship between Corral and Demetrius Flenory?
5 A Yes.
6 Q What was that relationship?
7 A Corral used to supply him with cocaine.
8 Q To who?
9 A To Demetrius Flenory.
10 Q What quantities of cocaine did Daniel Corral supply to
11 Flenory?
12 A Anywhere between 4 to 500 kilograms.
13 Q And back in 2004, do you know whether Corral knew Oscar
14 Dillon?
15 A I don’t know.
16 Q Let’s move forward to 2007. In 2007, who were you getting
17 cocaine from?
18 A From Corral.
19 Q Anyone else?
20 A And Payne.
21 Q How many times did you get cocaine from Corral in 2007?
22 A Maybe four or five.
23 Q And who did the cocaine -- who did you send cocaine to
24 that you got from Corral in 2007?
25 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection, assumes facts.

1 THE COURT: Overruled.
2 THE WITNESS: Lewis -- Robert Lewis, Dillon, a guy
3 named Cuzo.
4 Q Who is Robert Lewis?
5 A My nephew.
6 Q And who is -- do you know Robert Lewis by any nicknames?
7 A Laweezy (phonetic), Black Boy. I can’t remember the other
8 ones.
9 Q Could you speak up?
10 A I can’t remember the other ones.
11 Q And who is Cuzo?
12 A He’s a friend. I don’t know his name.
13 Q You don’t know his real name?
14 A No.
15 Q Okay. Could you take a look, please, at Exhibit 184,
16 which has already been moved into evidence?
17 MS. WANG: And, your Honor, I’m going to publish
18 Exhibit 184.
19 BY MS. WANG:
20 Q All right. Could you look on the screen?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Who is that?
23 A Robert Lewis.
24 Q All right. Going back to 2007, in 2007 as far as you
25 knew, was there any relationship between Corral and Oscar

1 Dillon?
2 MR. ROGERS: Objection, speculative, no foundation
3 laid.
5 THE WITNESS: Sometime in the -- I think in the
6 beginning of ’07 they met.
7 MR. ROGERS: Objection, speculation. The witness has
8 previously testified that he was never present when the two of
9 them were there.
10 THE COURT: Please don’t argue your objections.
11 MR. ROGERS: I’m sorry, your Honor.
12 THE COURT: It’s not -- you’re going to have to make
13 it clear as to whether he’s testifying based on general
14 information or from his own -- what he’s perceived --
16 THE COURT: -- and saw, heard and viewed.
19 BY MS. WANG:
20 Q Did you have a relationship with Corral and Dillon in
21 2007?
22 A Yes.
23 Q What was the relationship that you had with Corral and
24 Dillon?
25 A I used to broker cocaine deals.

1 Q And how would you -- how were paid for your part as a
2 broker between Corral and Dillon in 2007?
3 A Danny would give me anywhere between 500 to a thousand a
4 kilo. Dillon would give me 500 a kilo.
5 Q Would they both pay you per transaction or did it depend
6 on the transaction?
7 A Depend on the transaction.
8 Q In 2007, how many transactions did you broker between
9 Corral and Dillon?
10 A I think about three or four.
11 Q And what quantities of cocaine were involved in those
12 transactions?
13 A I think the first was, like, for 45 kilograms and then I
14 think 40 kilograms and 80 and then the last was a hundred.
15 Q And was Ramsey Seener (phonetic) still responsible for the
16 transportation of cocaine to Dillon in 2007?
17 A No.
18 Q Who transported the cocaine in the transactions between
19 Corral and Dillon in 2007?
20 A A guy named Tweet.
21 Q Did anybody else?
22 A And Lee.
23 THE COURT: Who?
24 THE WITNESS: Lee.
25 //
1 BY MS. WANG:
2 Q Do you mean Demond Lee?
3 A Yes.
4 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection, leading.
6 BY MS. WANG:
7 Q Who is Lee?
8 A A cousin.
9 Q And what’s his actual name?
10 A Demond Lee.
11 Q Do you see him in the courtroom today?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Could you identify him by description?
14 A He’s slim, bald head. He has a blue shirt on.
15 THE COURT: Identified Mr. Lee.
16 MS. WANG: Thank you, your Honor.
17 THE COURT: Did you say Mr. Lee is your cousin?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 BY MS. WANG:
20 Q And what is Defendant Lee’s profession?
21 A Truck driver.
22 Q What kind of trucks does he drive?
23 A Eighteen-wheelers.
24 Q Did you ask Lee to transport anything in his truck for you
25 in 2006?
1 A Yes.
2 Q What did you ask him to transport?
3 A Money -- money and cocaine.
4 Q And was that for you or for someone else?
5 A For me.
6 Q And how much cocaine are you talking about in 2006?
7 A I don’t remember.
8 Q What about in 2007? Did you ever ask Lee to transport
9 drugs or money for you in 2007?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And who was the -- who were you sending drugs or money to
12 in 2007?
13 A I wasn’t sending money. Money was coming back from the
14 sales of the cocaine. I was sending cocaine to Lewis, Dillon
15 and Cuzo.
16 MR. ROGERS: I’m sorry. I didn’t hear.
17 THE WITNESS: I was -- the money was coming -- money
18 wasn’t being sent. Money was coming back from the sales of the
19 cocaine but I was sending the cocaine to Lewis, Cuzo and
20 Dillon.
21 BY MS. WANG:
22 Q And was the money coming back from St. Louis?
23 A Yes.
24 Q How many times did Defendant Lee transport drugs for you
25 in 2007?
1 A It’d be just a couple of times.
2 Q And of the couple of times that Defendant Lee transported
3 cocaine for you in 2007, how many times was that shipment being
4 sent to Oscar Dillon?
5 A I think -- I used to go back and forth but probably two or
6 three times.
7 MR. ROGERS: Objection, speculation.
8 THE COURT: If you -- are you testifying from
9 personal knowledge?
11 THE COURT: Objection is overruled.
12 BY MS. WANG:
13 Q In 2007, did Defendant Lee ever ship any other drugs
14 besides cocaine for you?
15 A Heroine and marijuana.
16 Q And when was that?
17 A Right around the time that we was locked up. Well, the
18 heroine was in the beginning of ’07. The marijuana was at the
19 end of ’07.
20 MR. SWARTH: Sorry, I missed the first part.
21 THE WITNESS: The heroine was somewhere in the
22 beginning of ’07.
23 BY MS. WANG:
24 Q Could you take a look, please, at the Transcripts Exhibits
25 210-A and 211-A -- I’m sorry, actually just 210-A. What’s the
1 date of that call, according to the face sheet?
2 A There’s nothing in here.
3 MR. SPEAKER: I can’t hear.
4 THE WITNESS: It’s blank.
5 BY MS. WANG:
6 Q 210?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Sorry.
9 THE CLERK: May I assist?
10 MS. WANG: Yes.
11 THE WITNESS: I got it.
12 THE CLERK: You got it? Okay.
13 THE WITNESS: The date is 4/23/07.
14 BY MS. WANG:
15 Q And who are the voices on that call?
16 A Myself and Lee.
17 MS. WANG: Your Honor, the Government requests
18 permission to publish Exhibit 210.
19 THE COURT: Yes. You can go ahead.
20 (Government Exhibit Number 210 audio was played from 10:37
21 a.m. to 10:39 a.m.)
22 BY MS. WANG:
23 Q All right. On that first page of the transcript, you say
24 near the beginning, “What time you burning out?”
25 A Yes.
1 Q What did you mean by that?
2 A What time was he leaving St. Louis coming this way?
3 Q And he -- and Lee responds, “Soon as they load the shit
4 on.” What’s your understanding of what that meant?
5 A He was at work. So he was -- you know, the company he
6 worked for was loading --
7 Q Do --
8 A -- whatever merchandise he was bringing this way.
9 Q Do you mean as a truck driver?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And then you said, “’Cause old Hugo just called me.” What
12 did you mean by that?
13 A I was talking about D-Nice had just called me. He wanted
14 to know was he around.
15 Q Is that Daniel Corral?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And then you say, “He was like his people. It’s about 80
18 or 90 percent chance that it’s going come through tonight.”
19 What did you mean by that?
20 A That some cocaine was going to come through.
21 Q And the next line, you said, “Now, Hugo, you know, Nice.”
22 What did you mean by that?
23 A That’s what I was talking about Nice, you know, because
24 the line -- he said, “Oh, you say one of your partners.” He
25 thought I was talking about somebody else and I telling him,

1 no, I was talking Hugo or Nice.
2 Q Meaning Corral?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And then later down that page, Lee says, “I need you to
5 give me that line, too.” What was your understanding of what
6 that meant?
7 A To get another phone line.
8 MR. SWARTH: Objection, speculation.
10 THE WITNESS: To get another phone line.
11 BY MS. WANG:
12 Q And then you said, “All right. I got to find out where he
13 got that mother-fucker from.” What did you mean by that?
14 A Hugo had a place where he used to get cell phones from and
15 so I was going to find out where he got it from so I could have
16 went and got a couple for myself and Lee.
17 Q Okay. Then Lee says, “Please, because I don’t know if I
18 had, like, talked to you on your cell phone.” What’s your
19 understanding of what that meant?
20 A You know, we just always kept lines that we could talk to
21 each other on with nobody else.
22 Q All right. And then on the next page, Lee says, “Soon as
23 I get that, I’m throwing these away.”
24 A Soon as he gets another line, another phone line, he’s
25 going to throw the old ones away.

1 MR. SWARTH: Objection, speculation.
2 THE COURT: Objection overruled.
3 BY MS. WANG:
4 Q And then you say, “Cause I’m going to turn this mother-
5 fucker off anyway though.” What did you mean by that?
6 A I was talking about my phone because I had been -- I had
7 had it too long.
8 Q Could you turn next to 253-A? Do you have that in front
9 of you?
10 A Yes.
11 Q What’s the date on the face sheet?
12 A 8/28/07.
13 Q And who are the voices in that call?
14 A Myself and Lee.
17 THE COURT: Yes.
19 a.m. to 10:45 a.m.)
20 BY MS. WANG:
21 Q Mr. Simms, if you could turn back to the first page of
22 that transcript at the top, Lee says, “Yeah, my shit ain’t back
23 to on.” What’s your understanding of what that meant?
24 A His cell phone was cut off, the cell phone that we used to
25 talk on.
1 Q And then later down that page, you say, “’Cause he called
2 me and is, like, you know, tell me some of the people were
3 following him down there.” Who were you referring to in that?
4 A I’m referring to Dillon.
5 Q And what did you mean by, “tell me some of the people were
6 following him down there”?
7 A Some agents was following him in Atlanta.
8 Q And then later down the page in the middle, you say,
9 “Mus.”
10 A Yes.
11 Q And what did you mean by that?
12 A Muscles. It’s another nickname we call Dillon.
13 Q And you said, “Is he down there?” What did you mean by
14 that?
15 A I was asking was he back in St. Louis.
16 Q All right. And then on the second page, Lee says, “I’ll
17 call you later on. Call Dude and see why he ain’t turning my
18 shit on.” What was your understanding of what that meant?
19 A The phones we had at that time, Dillon had got those
20 turned on. So he wanted me to call him. He didn’t pay his
21 bill so he can turn his phone on.
22 Q Who didn’t pay the bill?
23 A Dillon.
24 Q Didn’t pay whose bill?
25 A Lee. The phone, the cell phone that Lee had.

1 Q All right. Could you turn next to Exhibit 224-A?
2 MR. SPEAKER: I’m sorry. Which one?
3 BY MS. WANG:
4 Q Do you have it in front of you?
5 A Yes.
6 Q What’s the date on that call?
7 A 7/26/07.
10 THE COURT: Please. Go ahead.
12 a.m. to 10:51 a.m.)
13 BY MS. WANG:
14 Q All right. Mr. Simms, on that first page --
15 A Yes.
16 Q -- where Lee says, “What about your one line with the body
17 builder? You go that on?”
18 A Yes.
19 Q What did you -- what’s your understanding of what that
20 meant?
21 A He’s talking about my line where me and Dillon talk on.
22 Q Whether or not --
23 A It was working or not.
24 Q All right. And then further down the page, you said,
25 “Yeah, I think it’s on. Me and him talked all day yesterday.
1 I think -- I don’t think I ran out of minutes on it.” What did
2 you mean by that?
3 A I was just telling him I thought I still had minutes, you
4 know, ‘cause I had talked to Dillon all day yesterday on it.
5 Q All right. And is the rest of the call about an unrelated
6 indictment in Atlanta?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Was Defendant Lee ever paid for his transportation of
9 drugs or money?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did you pay him?
12 A No.
13 MR. SWARTH: And I move to strike, Judge. No
14 foundation.
15 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection, lacks foundation. Move
16 to strike.
17 THE COURT: To the last question?
18 MR. SWARTH: Yes, your Honor.
19 MR. KALOYANIDES: The last question and answer, yes,
20 your Honor.
21 THE COURT: May I have the question again, please?
22 MS. WANG: It was, “Was Lee ever paid for his
23 transporting drugs or money?”
24 “Yes.
25 And then, “Did you ever pay him?

1 And the answer was, “No.”
2 THE COURT: The motion will be granted.
3 BY MS. WANG:
4 Q All right. Let’s start over at the beginning of 2007.
5 Did you have contact with Daniel Corral at the end of January,
6 beginning of February, 2007?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Did you contact him or the other way around?
9 A Vice versa.
10 Q Who contacted who?
11 A Oh, when we first got in contact, I contacted him.
12 Q Specifically, at the beginning of February 2007, I’m
13 asking who contacted who.
14 A At the beginning of February?
15 Q Yes.
16 MR. SWARTH: I’ll object as vague as to time.
17 THE COURT: If you can clarify, please.
18 BY MS. WANG:
19 Q Was there a specific transaction that you engaged when --
20 in February -- the beginning of February 2007 with Corral?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And did Corral contact you or did you contact Corral with
23 regards to that transaction?
24 A He contacted me.
25 Q And what did Corral want?

1 MR. SWARTH: Objection, hearsay.
2 THE COURT: Objection overruled.
3 THE WITNESS: He wanted D-Boy to come out here so
4 that he could ship drugs back to Missouri, St. Louis.
5 MR. SWARTH: Objection, your Honor, improper --
6 not --
7 THE COURT: Well, I didn’t hear you.
8 MR. SWARTH: Your Honor, improper testimony. It’s
9 not a statement.
10 THE COURT: Your objection is -- ground?
11 MR. SWARTH: Relevance and foundation.
12 THE COURT: Overruled. Overruled.
13 BY MS. WANG:
14 Q Did Daniel Corral give you anything in February 2007 at
15 the beginning?
16 A I believe it was cocaine and heroin.
17 MR. ROGERS: I’m going to object. Move to strike,
18 speculation.
19 THE COURT: It sounds speculative. You’re going to
20 have to lay foundation.
22 BY MS. WANG:
23 Q Could you take a look, please, at Exhibits 10 --
24 THE COURT: The motion to strike would be granted.
25 The jury is ordered to disregard the last response.

1 BY MS. WANG:
2 Q Could you take a look, please, at Exhibits 10, 11 and 12
3 that have been previously entered into evidence?
4 A Ten, 11 and 12.
5 MS. WANG: Your Honor, he may need some assistance.
6 THE CLERK: Your Honor, Exhibit 10 is before the
7 witness.
8 THE WITNESS: Yes.
9 THE CLERK: Exhibit 11 is before the witness.
10 Exhibit 12 is before the witness.
11 BY MS. WANG:
12 Q Do you recognize Exhibits 10 through 12?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And what are those?
15 A Money. Money that I received from Corral to purchase
16 cocaine with.
17 Q And when did you --
18 MR. KALOYANIDES: Objection, lacks foundation,
19 speculation. Move to strike.
21 BY MS. WANG:
22 Q Did you have possession of that money?
23 A Yes.
24 MR. KALOYANIDES: Same objections, your Honor.

1 BY MS. WANG:
2 Q When did you have possession of that money?
3 A February -- sometime around the beginning of February.
4 Q Is that in 2007?
5 A 2007, yes.
6 Q All right. And where did you get that -- who did you get
7 that money from?
8 A Corral.
9 Q And what did Corral ask you to do with that money?
10 A He wanted me to purchase cocaine with it.
11 Q How much money was that?
12 A I believe it was, like, 95,800.
13 MS. WANG: Your Honor, the Government is about to --
14 is going to publish Exhibit 10.
15 THE COURT: Please.
16 BY MS. WANG:
17 Q And did you take that money from Daniel Corral?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And what did you do with it?
20 A I purchased 8 kilograms of cocaine from Payne.
21 Q What did Corral ask for in return for that money that he
22 gave you?
23 A Eight kilograms of cocaine.
24 Q Did Corral want the 8 kilograms himself?
25 A No.
2 to strike.
3 MS. WANG: I’ll --
4 THE COURT: Lay foundation, please.
5 MS. WANG: I’ll rephrase, your Honor.
6 BY MS. WANG:
7 Q Did you --
8 THE COURT: The objection will be sustained.
9 BY MS. WANG:
10 Q Did you then -- did you contact Payne regarding that
11 money?
12 A Yes.
13 Q What did you ask Payne?
14 A I asked him if he had $8.
15 Q And what did you mean by “$8”?
16 A Eight kilograms of cocaine.
17 Q Did Payne agree to take that money?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And did you then give Payne the $95,800?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Could you take a look, please, at the Transcript Exhibit
22 207-A? Do you have it in front of you?
23 A Yes.
25 A 2/1/07.
1 Q And who were the voices on that call?
2 A Myself and Payne.
4 permission to publish Exhibit 207 which is already in evidence.
5 THE COURT: Yes, please.
7 a.m. to 10:59 a.m.)
8 BY MS. WANG:
9 Q All right. And when you asked, you said, “What was I
10 going to ask you? Oh, about eight, around $8, you know, what I
11 told you that I wanted.” What did you mean by that?
12 A I was asking for 8 kilograms of cocaine.
13 Q Okay. Can you take a look next at 208-A? What --
14 A 2/1/07.
15 Q That’s the date on the call?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Who are the voices on that call?
18 A Myself and Payne.
19 MS. WANG: Your Honor, may I publish Exhibit 208?
21 (Government’s Exhibit Number 208 audio was played from
22 11:00 a.m. to 11:01 a.m.)
23 BY MS. WANG:
24 Q In the call you said, “If he did do -- do take it, shit, I
25 put too much in there.” What did you mean by that?

1 A I was -- I didn’t know if he was going to take the money
2 at first because of the way the money looked.
3 Q Now, when you say “he,” who are you talking about?
4 A Whoever his supplier was.
5 Q Do you mean Payne’s supplier?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And what does that mean, “I put too much in there”?
8 A The price should have been 93,100 and I put 95,200 in
9 there.
10 Q Ninety-three thousand for how much cocaine?
11 A Eight kilograms.
12 Q All right. And then you said, “Cause when I add it up,
13 right -- when I add it up, 5-7, that would have been 93-1 and I
14 put 95-2 in there.” What did that mean?
15 A When I had added it up, I added up the price, you know, I
16 just realized I had put too much money in there and I was
17 asking him to take a couple thousand back out.
18 Q What does 95-2 refer to?
19 A 95,200.
20 Q Did you subsequently receive 8 kilograms of cocaine from
21 Payne?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And what did you do with the 8 kilograms of cocaine?
24 A I sent them to St. Louis with 30 other kilograms of
25 cocaine.
1 Q And who was that cocaine going to in St. Louis?
2 A Steel -- believe it was Steel. Steel and Cuzo, I believe.
3 THE COURT: You need to speak louder. We can’t hear
4 you.
5 MS. WANG: Yes, I’m sorry. Can you say that louder?
6 THE WITNESS: I believe it was -- not Steel -- Lewis
7 and Cuzo.
8 BY MS. WANG:
9 Q And did Lewis and Cuzo send money back to you afterwards?
10 A Yes.
11 Q What did you do with that money?
12 A I gave it to Corral.
13 Q After that 8-kilogram transaction in February of 2007, did
14 you have a cocaine transaction with Oscar Dillon?
15 A Yes.
16 Q When was that?
17 A It wasn’t too much longer. I think it was March.
18 Q Around March?
19 A I believe so.
21 MR. ROGERS: Objection, move to strike. Strike,
22 speculative.
24 THE WITNESS: It was for 40 or 45 kilograms.
25 //
1 BY MS. WANG:
2 Q And how did Dillon pay for that transaction?
3 A That was fronted to him.
4 Q By who?
5 A Corral.
6 Q And when you say, “fronted,” can you explain what that
7 means?
8 A He gave it to him now. He’d pay later.
9 Q As in, who would pay later?
10 A Dillon.
11 Q How did you send the cocaine out to Dillon in that
12 transaction?
13 A I’m not for sure if Lee took it or if Tweet took it.
14 Q Who is Tweet?
15 A He’s a guy that -- he works for Corral.
16 Q And what did he do for Corral?
17 A He would deliver cocaine.
18 Q And how would he deliver cocaine?
19 A In his 18-wheeler.
20 Q And after that transaction in March 2007, did you have
21 another cocaine transaction with Dillon?
22 A Yes. I think it was maybe one more.
23 Q When was the next one?
24 MR. ROGERS: Objection, speculation. He can’t even
25 say if it was one more, your Honor.

1 THE COURT: The objection is overruled. And please
2 do not argue your objection. State the ground.
3 THE WITNESS: I believe it was one more for, I
4 believe, 80 kilograms.
5 BY MS. WANG:
6 Q And when did that happen?
7 A Around April or May, I believe.
8 Q And did you end up sending the 80 kilograms out to
9 St. Louis?
10 A No. Corral did.
12 to strike.
13 THE COURT: Motion granted.
14 BY MS. WANG:
15 Q Did Dillon ever acknowledge receipt of that 80 kilograms
16 of cocaine to you?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And after that 80 kilograms, did you have another cocaine
19 transaction with Oscar Dillon?
20 A After that, it was for the hundred kilos that supposedly
21 came up missing.
22 Q When was that transaction for a hundred kilos?
23 A July, I believe.
24 Q Was Corral involved in that hundred-kilo transaction?
25 A Yes.
1 Q And did Dillon send money to you for that hundred kilos?
2 MR. ROGERS: Objection, leading.
3 THE WITNESS: No.
5 BY MS. WANG:
6 Q I’m sorry?
7 A No.
8 Q How was Dillon going to pay for the hundred kilos?
9 MR. ROGERS: Objection, foundation.
10 THE COURT: Let’s just -- so we have clarity, you can
11 testify what -- as to what you personally saw, what you
12 personally heard and what you personally said. If the
13 information is based on information acquired from other people,
14 let us know.
16 THE COURT: Ask your next question.
17 BY MS. WANG:
18 Q How was Dillon going to pay you for the hundred kilos of
19 cocaine?
20 A Nice had, like, gave it to him up front and he would pay
21 later.
23 to strike.
24 THE COURT: The objection is overruled. The motion
25 is denied.
1 BY MS. WANG:
2 Q And how were you planning to send that cocaine to Dillon?
3 A Nice had sent it through his driver Tweet.
4 Q And when you say, “Nice,” you mean Corral?
5 A Yes.
6 MR. ROGERS: Objection. This is speculation. Move
7 to strike. Foundation as well.
8 THE COURT: The objection is overruled. The motion
9 is denied.
10 BY MS. WANG:
11 Q And did Dillon ultimately receive the hundred kilos?
12 A No.
13 Q What happened?
14 A The driver said that somebody robbed him for it.
15 Q And the driver, do you mean Tweet?
16 A Tweet, yes.
17 Q And did you believe Tweet’s explanation?
18 A No.
19 Q Okay. Could you take a look now at Exhibit 215-A? Do you
20 have it in front of you?
21 A Yes.
23 A 7/11/07.
24 Q And who are the voices in that call?
25 A Myself and Marco Bohlen.

1 Q Who is Marco Bohlen?
2 A My nephew.
3 Q And did you have any business relationship with Marco
4 Bohlen?
5 A Yes.
6 Q What kind of relationship?
7 A We dealt heroin together.
8 Q I’m sorry. You’ll have to speak up.
9 THE COURT: I don’t -- I didn’t hear you.
10 THE WITNESS: We had business involved in heroin.
12 permission to publish 215.
13 THE COURT: Yes, go ahead.
15 10:09 a.m. to 10:16 a.m.)
16 BY MS. WANG:
17 Q Mr. Simms, has that call been redacted for legal purposes?
18 A Yes.
19 Q In that first page of the call, you said, “I ain’t got
20 nothing. Wish I did, fucking stressed out.” What were you
21 talking about there?
22 A Money.
23 Q I’m sorry?
24 A Selling -- it was talking about money.
25 Q Oh, meaning you didn’t have any money?

1 A Uh-huh.
2 Q And why are you stressed out?
3 A Stressed out by everything that was going on with the
4 hundred kilos and the problems that I thought was about to
5 come.
6 Q Were you fearful of the Mexican suppliers that you owed
7 money to?
8 A I didn’t hear you.
9 Q Were you fearful of the Mexican suppliers that you owed
10 money to?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And in the next line, Marco says, “Yeah. You talked to
13 Big Dog lately?”
14 A Yes.
15 Q And what was your understanding of what that meant?
16 A He was talking about Corral.
17 Q Then later down that page, you said, “That Mex, that mob”
18 and Marco says, “I’m talking about who he charged for the
19 hundred.” What does that mean?
20 A I was talking about the Mexican drug cartel and --
21 Q And then Marco says, “I’m talking about who he charged for
22 the hundred.” What’s your understanding of what that meant?
23 A He was talking about who Nice was charging for it. You
24 know, Nice basically was saying that me and Dillon owed him for
25 it because he thought we was the ones that robbed him.

1 Q So you’re saying Corral believed that you had robbed him?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And in the next line, you said, “The driver dude claims --
4 see, I don’t know. They say that the driver dude playing games
5 or the people got him and he working with them now.”
6 A Uh-huh.
8 A Like I said, when the guy called and said Tweet --
9 Q Who’s the guy?
10 A The guy Tweet. When he called and said that three black
11 guys robbed him, I didn’t believed it from the get-go, you
12 know, and that’s why I was saying that he was playing games.
13 He must have took it hisself [sic] and was blaming it on the
14 blacks.
15 Q And then in -- further in that same paragraph, you said,
16 “But he talking about as soon as he got there, three brothers
17 jumped down on him, told him it’s a robbery.”
18 A Uh-huh.
19 Q What does that mean?
20 A That’s what the driver Tweet was saying. As soon as he
21 pulled up to the spot that they was supposed to meet at, three
22 black guys jumped out on him and robbed him.
23 Q And then later in that same paragraph, you said, “That’s
24 two tickets.” What does that mean?
25 A I was talking about it was damned near 2 million, the debt

1 for the cocaine.
2 Q So who owed that debt?
3 A When it first happened, Nice was saying that myself and
4 Muscles owed him because he felt that we robbed him but, you
5 know, we was never trying to pay it. It’s just what he was
6 saying.
7 Q And then further down that same page, you said, “Well, you
8 know they talked to him. He stated he swear to god he didn’t
9 have nothing to do with it, you know, that SA dude.” Who are
10 you talking about?
11 A I was talking about Tweet. Nice and them had talked to
12 him and he was sticking to the story that three black guys
13 robbed him and that he didn’t have nothing to do with it.
14 Q And then you say, “Because you know that Muscles, you
15 know. You know, where it first me and -- you know, he the one
16 I was sending it to.”
17 A I was telling him about where it was going, that it was
18 going to Dillon when the guy said the three guys jumped out on
19 him and robbed him.
20 Q All right. Next page. In the middle of the page, you
21 said, “But you know them, boy, them boys from the other side,
22 they don’t want to hear that.”
23 A Uh-huh.
24 Q What does -- what did you mean by that?
25 A I was talking about the guys that Nice worked for which
1 was the Mexican drug cartel. You know, they didn’t want to
2 hear nothing about nothing getting lost. They want their
3 money.
4 Q Okay. And then the last page, you say, “And none I had,
5 had 20, 20 bucks, right? It was all I had. I had to give that
6 up. I’m down here. I ain’t got a penny.” What did you mean
7 by that?
8 A I had like 20,000 left. All the money I had, I gave it
9 Nice to help go towards the debt.
10 Q And then Marco then responds, “Let me make something
11 happen for I can shoot you something here.”
12 A He --
13 Q What was your understanding of what that meant?
14 A When he got done doing what he was doing, which was
15 selling heroin, that he was going to send me some money.
16 Q Was that to go towards the debt?
17 A That was just so I can have.
18 Q Have money?
19 A Uh-huh.
20 Q Could you take a look next at Exhibit 221-A? Do you have
21 that in front of you?
22 A Yes.
24 A 7/23/07.
25 Q Who are the speakers in that call?

1 A Myself and Lee.
6 11:22 a.m. to 11:25 a.m.)
7 BY MS. WANG:
8 Q Going back to that first page, Lee says, “You ain’t talked
9 to that old Hugo?”
10 A Yes.
11 Q What’s your understanding of what that meant?
12 A Asked me have I talked to Corral.
13 Q And you said, “Nah, I ain’t talked to this mother-fucker
14 yet, man. This shit got me so stressed out. I don’t know what
15 the fuck to do.” What did you mean by that?
16 A I was just talking about, you know, everything that was
17 going on with the hundred kilos coming up missing and the
18 potential problems that was going to come behind it.
19 Q Okay. So you had not talked to Corral --
20 A Yes.
21 Q -- at that point?
22 A Uh-huh.
23 Q And then you say, “I talked to Tony, you know, his man.”
24 A Uh-huh.

1 A That was a guy that worked for Corral. I had talked to
2 him and, you know, I was asking him about Corral and what was
3 going on but he hadn’t talked to him hisself [sic] at that
4 time.
5 Q Was there a period of time after the hundred kilos went
6 missing that you were not in touch with Corral?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Approximately what length of time was that?
9 A I think maybe September to around November.
10 Q And did you try to call Corral?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And then further down that page, you said, “If he done
13 something stupid, I’m going to blast his mother-fucking ass
14 when I catch him.” What did you mean by that?
15 A If he had took the money that I gave him -- I was
16 responsible for other people money they had took it, I said I
17 was going to kill him when I catch him.
18 Q Who?
19 A Corral.
20 Q Next page. The top of the page, you said, “He ain’t never
21 did this. You know, any other time I give him the change, like
22 you say, he come right back. I gave him, you know, yours and
23 my last -- what was it, 20?”
24 A Yeah.

1 A Normally when I give him money for drugs, you know, he
2 take the money and bring the drugs right back but around that
3 time, he didn’t.
4 Q Do you mean Corral?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And then when you said, “I gave him, you know, yours.”
7 A I gave him --
8 Q You gave who?
9 A Corral. I gave him Lee’s 68,000 and my last 20,000.
10 Q In order to what?
11 A Purchase cocaine.
12 Q And then further down that page, you said, “No. I turned
13 it off. Dude told me to turn it off ’cause I thought he say he
14 talk to you and told you to jump on that other one, too.” What
15 did you mean by that?
16 A We were switching phones because the phone with me, him
17 and Dillon was on, that we were switching to a newer one that
18 we had.
19 Q So who is “Dude told me to turn it off”?
20 A Dillon.
21 Q And why did Dillon want you to turn that phone off?
22 A We had been talking on that phone a while. So it was time
23 to switch to the next one.
24 Q Could you turn, please, to Exhibit 248-A?
25 A I didn’t hear you.

1 Q 248-A. What’s the date on that call?
2 A 8/18/07.
3 Q And who are the voices on that call?
4 A Myself and Lewis.
7 THE COURT: Are we going to take the morning recess?
8 The schedule is going to be a little bit different the next
9 couple of days. Please return back to the court at 12:30 and
10 we will continue with the trial. During your absence, do not
11 discuss the case amongst yourselves or with any other person.
12 On Wednesday, we’re going to see if we can get everyone out by
13 2:00 o’clock. There’s some flights leaving and I’m trying to
14 accommodate Counsel.
15 THE CLERK: All rise.
16 (Jurors exited the courtroom at 11:29 a.m.)
17 THE CLERK: Court’s in recess.
18 (A lunch recess was taken at 11:30 a.m.; end of morning
19 session)
20
21
22
23
24
25
79
CERTIFICATION
I certify that the foregoing is a correct transcript from the
electronic sound recording of the proceedings in the above-
entitled matter.
November 25, 2008_ __
TONI HUDSON, TRANSCRIBER

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Case 2:07-cr-01215-SJO Document 743 Filed 11/25/2008 Page 1 of 79

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) CASE NO: CR-07-01215(A)-SJO

BEFORE THE HONORABLE S. JAMES OTERO,

Appearances: See next page

Court Recorder: Margarita Lopez

Deputy Clerk: Victor P. Cruz

Transcribed by: Exceptional Reporting Services, Inc.

Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording;

The Government: ROSALIND WANG, ESQ.

FBI: Agent James Smith

Oscar Dillon: JOHN P. ROGERS, ESQ.

MICHAEL MERESAK, ESQ.

Tracy Prince: ROBERT M. ROSS, ESQ.

Roy Burris: DAVID KALYONIDES, ESQ.

Demond Lee: PETER CARL SWARTH, ESQ.

Bernard Beard: JAMES PERNELL COOPER, III, ESQ.

EXCEPTIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

2 GOVERNMENT’S WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS

4 GOVERNMENT’S EXHIBITS RECEIVED

10 215 through 245 37

1 Los Angeles, California; Monday, November 24, 2008; 9:15 a.m.

4 THE CLERK: Come to order, this Court is now in

6 THE COURT: Please have a seat. Thank you. We’re

7 back on the record on United States versus Payne, et al. All

8 Defendants are present with Counsel and Counsel for the

9 Government is present; the jury is not. I’ve been informed

12 THE CLERK: He’s not here yet. He’ll be here

14 THE COURT: Mr. Simms is -- will arrive when?

15 MS. WANG: The estimate was 9:30, your Honor.

16 THE COURT: And the Government has no other

18 MS. WANG: We don’t have any others right now, your

20 THE COURT: Well, who do you intend to call next?

21 MS. WANG: Our next witness would be Troy Zirker.

22 THE COURT: Will be who?

23 MS. WANG: Troy Zirker. And we can have him here,

25 THE COURT: And then who -- who follows Mr. Zirker?

1 MS. WANG: I think we would call Andy Lindhold and

3 THE COURT: Daniel -- you said Daniel?

4 MS. WANG: Daniel Corral, your Honor.

5 THE COURT: And then I’ve been informed that

8 shop. Apparently, her -- she recalled that over the weekend

10 that we bring her in to inquire further while we’re waiting for

11 Mr. Simms to arrive. Agreed?

12 MR. KALOYANIDES: Yes.

13 MS. WANG: Yes.

14 THE COURT: Agreed? Is there anybody that objects to

16 MR. SWARTH: Agreed.

17 THE COURT: (To clerk) Victor?

18 THE CLERK: Yes, your Honor?

21 THE CLERK: I didn’t explain to them why, I told them

22 we’re running a little behind.

23 THE COURT: Okay.

25 (Alternate Juror Two enters Courtroom at 9:19 a.m.)

1 THE COURT: Would you just state your name, please,

2 for the record?

3 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: My name is Sandra Scates.

4 THE COURT: Ms. Scates, the Clerk has informed that

6 customer or attended the barber shop that was referenced in the

7 course of the trial -- I think Mr. Prince is the barber. Is

8 that accurate information?

9 ALTERNATE JUROR NUMBER 2: I don’t know who the

10 barber is or was, but it has come to my attention that yes,