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Simona Stoicescu

Interview with Fernando, the Mayan Messenger


Damanhur, September 2012.
The Mayas are not future-telling prophets, they are visionaries who studied time, who knew the cycles, and knew that mankind would reach a critical point when there would be no way to continue with the system, they would have to re-make the system.

I had a magical encounter, in Italy, in Damanhur, with a Mexican shaman, a messenger bringing greetings from elders to the New People, the ones rising all over the world, the ones building fresh ethical cultures.

Simona: We are, no doubt about that, in a period of big challenges in our lives; our society faces lot of problems that have to be solved. How does this fit into the Mayan prophecies, from your perspective? Fernando: Ill answer you in Spanish because that will be easier for me, but I understand you very well. The thing to realize is that the Mayan Prophecies have been badly distorted in the world. The Prophecies never spoke of the end of the world, never spoke of catastrophes. They talk of a new time, they talk of a different opportunity for humanity. A different opportunity for evolution and inner change which will produce social change. The Mayas are not future-telling prophets, they are visionaries who studied time, who knew the cycles, and knew that mankind would reach a critical point when there would be no way to continue with the system, they would have to remake the system. In fact the deeper ideas underlying the Mayan people are very beautiful and have to do with seeing the community from the heart, with love for the community, with all able to eat. There is a saying in Maya

The saying is Todos comen, todos comemos everyone eats, we all


(.) and its muy bonita (very beautiful).

eat, and so no one has to go without.

So with this

vision that everyone eats, no one who sits at the table will go hungry. The Mayan people have lived and are living in time with a sense of community so deeply rooted that this has not been mixed (diluted) and remains pure, in spite of the economic situation and the different problems that they face. And in this call, going out to humanity, they say we have to change course, to change course in three very clear things. Firstly we they tell us that we are using false money, our money is of no use to us, it does not exist. In the past, value for them was having a cow or some land or some crops. Now our money is a piece of plastic giving money that does not exist, that we dont really have, that is floating around out there. It could disappear at any moment. This money is illusory and does not exist on the spiritual plane. So

You never obtain anything with this illusory money.


this illusory money deludes and traps us, we always want more.

For the Mayas it is absurd to think that we spend so much money on such a little object. Because it has no use. Simona: No value?! Fernando: No value. The second aspect that the Mayas speak of is the relationship between people. They think that the Western world is very angry, and that it is angry because it is unhappy, it is suffering. And unhappy people can only make others unhappy. Its as if I make you angry, you make someone else angry, and so on. They believe that the starting point for a relationship is happiness this is something I agree with and I really like. It doesnt make sense for you to produce if you are not happy. It doesnt make

It doesnt make sense for you to exist if you are not happy. So there is a supreme value which is joy. Not joy in the
sense for you to share (relate) if you dont share happiness. sense of licentiousness (pleasures of the flesh), but in the sense of enjoyment, of celebration. In certain peoples, not just the Maya, but in other peoples like the Huicholes in Mexico they celebrate fiestas, like the one yesterday in Damanhur, but more fun! They maybe have celebrations a hundred times a year. So every third day is a celebration. Which is very good for them, to stay

And that is the third value, work. The responsibility of work. And in the responsibility of work there is the retention of a pattern
happy, singing, sharing their enjoyment, and then, back to work. that goes back centuries. In the Mayan tradition, agricultural work is divided into three parts. All the farm produce grown by the people was divided into three blocks. One block went to the farmers, those who produced it; a second block went to the priests and the government; a third block went to the warriors and the artisans (craftsmen) because they cooperated in their own way and the farmers in turn supported them; at the same time the warriors protected them and the artisans provided them with all they needed.

The interesting thing is the part that went to the governors, because that part didnt become their property, they simply looked after

it for when it was needed.

And when there was a crisis/ when

times were hard, the ones who had the responsibility to hand out the grain to the people were the governors, who had been looking after it. And the tradition is so beautiful, so well preserved, that even today if the grain runs out, the first to go without will be the governors. And thats great. Because they are the ones who have to give grain to the people. Its that simple, that the governors families will be the first to give up their share. Symbolically or not, but that is the intention. Simona: You explained some evenings ago, how you see the world now. Could you explain again about the five categories of people? Fernando: Very interesting. This is a shamanic view in general. As you say: people can be seen to fall into five groups. First there are the ones who are muertos (dead). That is what we call them. People who are asleep but who think they are awake. So they do nothing to change. They are in a similar state to most of the world. The shamans consider the world to be dead. Actually most people are not alive. This is clear to see in the way they are automatic. They have their routine processes (tasks, activities) which they carry out daily but they are not [present] in those processes. It is as if they live for pay day, or for Sunday. What matters is pay day or Sunday, and all the rest is to be rushed through as fast as possible. On the second level are those that know they are asleep, who want to do something about it, but dont know what to do. They know something is incomplete, something is wrong inside them. And this makes a big difference, because they actually recognize that they are not all right. And this awareness will lead them to the third level, that of the people we call ensoados (those who slumber) which is a fine word. The ensoados are like puppies when they are born, they struggle to open their eyes and do so for a moment, but then have to close them again. They struggle to open their eyes for longer, but they always end up closing them. Those people are perhaps seekers like ourselves. We wake up for a moment but then we fall asleep again. But we have the sensation that we are awake, and have the intention of keeping our eyes open. And little by little we can keep them open for a longer. When you can keep your eyes open for a long time, I wont say all your life because thats another level, but for a long time, then you have reached the level of guerrero (warrior). The guerrero is a level where you have the courage to live, the

courage to say I have my eyes open and I am going to do something. I dont just see the world has gone bad, Im going to do something about it, contribute something. I have the courage to say, I do not agree with this world. And the next level after that is the highest level

, that of the group, the shaman, the despierto (one who is awake). The despierto is one who has such an awareness of the world as it is, that he can look at the dormidos (those who sleep) and anticipate their movements. One who covers the well before the child falls in; one who makes changes before there is no choice but to change. They can see what is going to happen. They are so aware that they acechan the moment (watch out for the moment). They are alert. There is a shamanic concept that I like very much which is called acechar el instante (watch for the instant). To see how life weaves a net for you to see how life seeks to trap you or to help you. And acechar el instante means before the net traps me, I break it. I dont wait to be trapped. If I can I move, I anticipate that moment. And if the movement is beneficial for me, I act, I dont wait to the last moment to take the step. If I can I go with the flow, moving with the river. These are basically the first four levels you speak of.

(the last are the enlightened ones, like Jesus Christ, Buddha) Simona: What are our chances, how do the Ancients see the future? What is happening now, are we at the end of a cycle? Fernando: This is complex. Ill be honest: this is the view of the Elders, this is not necessarily my view. For the Elders the world is podrido (rotten), its no longer any good. People do things that are not right. And there are things that are simple (normal) for society that are very painful for them (the Elders). For instance, rape (sexual abuse). It is not possible to understand rape because in rape there is a disrespect for life, a dishonouring of life, not just of the body but of life. There is a total lack of awareness in this taking of something which does not belong to you. And for them this is something very serious that is constantly happening. Not only rape with violence but all the ways in which we are abused. Another characteristic that they (the Elders) consider very mistaken in the world is the materialism. There is a lack of brotherhood. In the Native American areas of Mexico, the people live in families, in groups, even today. There is a central table, and one kitchen where they cook for the whole family. So when they see the way we live, separated, everyone with their towel, their bathroom, their kitchen, their table: its like: Whats wrong with them, they dont want to learn to share! Another thing that is very

significant for them is the lack of respect for the Earth and for Living things. How can we be a society that destroys trees, that kills animals, that makes gaping holes in the earth, that pollutes rivers? This is very painful for them. And so this type of society for them is rotten, is finished. But then there is a small fraction of this society that wants to escape from this rottenness, that wants this to stop. So these people give us hope. But there arent many of them in comparison with the rotten world. Take myself. I live in Mexico City. Many times Ive been asked to leave the City, to go to live with them, because its different from the City. But as I see it, and I argue, if the few of us who are a bit awake leave, then there will be no hope for the rest. So we need to be among those who are asleep, and to make some noise, to see if anyone opens their eyes for a moment. But the general view is that the world is rotten. Certain people deserve a second chance, they feel at peace with the world. And so the financial crises in reality do not affect them. What I am going to say now is very hard, but in Mexico the native peoples have always been poor. David: After the contact with the Spanish, you mean, not before... Fernando: Yes, of course (laughing) after contact with the Spanish. And for them, if there is financial crisis in the world, if Europe collapses, if anything happens to the stock market prices, then its all the same to them. They will still be just as poor, it will make no difference. If there is a great nuclear catastrophe, then they are far away, and this protects them. They feel that at that precise moment the Earth will receive them. There are native Mexicans that have this magic vision which I share with them, where they will make sort of graves in the earth. And if the sun fails, they will go into the earth and grow like plants. This is a lovely idea, because they dont have any problems. They dont die, instead they become plants. Simona: What is your vision? Your vision I mean, not the vision of the Elders? Fernando: My own personal vision? I am hopeful, I am very hopeful about the world. Because I travel. And whenever I travel I see good people. And so for me, if I find good people in the world, in any circumstance, in different places, then I am hopeful. And my heart, my vision, my thinking, my energy become totally hopeful. There are times when I find it harder to be optimistic, when something happens. But then I think of the good people I know, people like you both, and for me this is a sign that we can carry on. Its been

good for me, because I have come to know many places, and everywhere I see someone who is good. Perhaps a child, perhaps the look in someones eyes, maybe someone who is not my friend, someone Ive not talked to. But this fills my heart because if there are points of light, of good people, then my heart is not weary, it can carry on. And so everyone can carry on, because we are all one organism, and if we have healthy cells, the organism can be saved. Perhaps the cancer is big, and we are on the point of death, but one healthy cell at the last moment can reverse all the cancer in the world, and for me this is totally hopeful, I have hope. Simona: Speaking of this needed healing of the worldFor me it was very shocking to discover that, living in a community, is very important. Would you advise people to live in community, to start in that direction? Is it a solution you would recommend? Fernando: This is difficult (to answer) and even more so as youre asking me in Damanhur! What I feel in my heart is that this is not the deepest way. I think that the deepest solution is to live in contact, with ourselves, with our individual heart. If this heart leads you to live in a community with other people with similar aims, thats fine live in a community. But if you have a connection, a deeper connection within you, you may live without being in a community and do the right thing to live well. Because as I see it there are dangerous outcomes here: The community as the only road to salvation. And this I think is dangerous: People believing that the only way for them to be saved is by living in a community with others. Because this could lead to people looking for a community just to be saved, without proper awareness. Not from the promptings of their heart. And think this ought not to happen. People should know that community is a path, an option, perhaps a very good one, but that you can also be outside of a community. Its true that without communion you cannot really be, without communion with people, because there is a deeper communion with life, with joy, with the trees. There is a more intimate feeling of community. And my only thought for the world is that people should understand that whatever the path we are on, this can always be turned round, this is what I am continually seeing. We could be leading a ba

d life for thirty years, doing things that are bad, that are wrong, and then in one instant we can turn everything around and take a different path. And we can find the strength because people have this. One only needs to know how to touch the heart for us to make this great change. And I feel that people all around the world are coming to realize this, perhaps not consciously, but people are

singing

this message are

breathing it in
again.

the atmosphere again Fernando: Thats what you asked. So: not just one way.

and

Simona: The Mayas identified five time cycles that come to an end in 2012cycles that mark the evolution. What kind of cycles, what kind of development will we have from now? Fernando: That depends. That depends on us. Its as if the Mayas are saying to us, there is a road that goes from Romania to Turin. And there the road ends, thats all the road we can see. But the world doesnt end there, only the road. And from there you can begin a new road, just as you like. Just as you prepare yourself to travel it.

The profound vision is that

this is a time of transformation, not of ending, of transformation. And there are only two sides to this transformation:
one is a an harmonic transformationDo you know tha

the Mayas dont use the term calendario (calendar). A calendario is a mechanical counting of time. They use the term sincronario, sincronario (synchronar) [Simona laughs in surprise]. Synchronicity,
t sincronario. Because you dont have to count time. You have to synchronize with time, and live through the eyes of the synchronar is to say that each day has an energy, its not a computation, a number, its a living energy. And you have to understand this energy every day to be able to live the same project inconnection, in correlation with all living things, because each day has a project for all of us, for the animals, for the plants, for the spirits, for the elements, for people. And when I separate myself from this synchronization I produce chaos. But when I go against with the

synchronicity, it is even worse. The time of the Mayas has been long, it was a great period for humanity, which enabled many good things to be created, and humanity also did many good things in that time. But humanity desynchronized itself (lost this synchronicity) and constructed a false time upon true time. And so now we live, I think this is obvious, a false kind of time. The days are too short, the years go by so quickly, there is no time for anything. Time is chaotic, it is all in disorder. The Elders say, and I believe them, that what has been happening for the past six years is that the days are really only 17 hours long, not 24 hours. All of us feel this like a whirrr, whirrr, whirrr (whirring sound). But since everything is adapted to the same perception, everything is constructed on the same principle, everything continues to work: the cloc

ks still work, the Earth turns round, but everything is accelerated, like a motor that is going whirr. So this is a time of transformation There is a word I should like to share with you, that I like. It says: anyone in this time who chooses to, can become an encantador del sueo (a dreamer

charmer). I like that word very much. You understand encantador? Like an encantador de serpientes (a snake charmer). A dream magician. Because this dream magician goes softly to people to tell them it is time to wake up. And then they go to the world of those who are awake and say: Wait for them, they are still waking up!. This is the work. To those awake you say: Wait, dont go! , and to those asleep you say: Hurry up, hurry up, we all have to go together! This is a concept given me to me as a present by my master and which I have cherished very much, because I think its beautiful. He isnt Catholic, but he knows the story of Noah, of the Ark. Once, talking with him, he asked me what I thought of the story of Noahs Ark. So I told him.

He replied that we are in a time like that of Noah now. I thought: Well thats interesting. But he continued: this time the Ark is the Earth.
We all go, or no one does. Unlike other visions that say that only certain people, only the few, will be saved, the shamanic view is not that. In chamanismo we all go (we are all saved) or we all d(sarts to say die but corrects himself) Well whatever, whatever has to happen to us. We are all connected, we cannot separate ourselves and say: You people stay, we are going. This is beautiful. This is the Mayan view as a whole. If things get bad, the first to go [to face the bad experience] are the shamans; and then the people. There are many forces coming to the Earth now, different ones, from all levels, from all planes. Natural forces, because the Earth wants to renew itself, needs to renew itself. For us, the trees are antennas, connecting the Heavens with the Earth. And when we have killed so many trees, the Earth is suffocating a little, cannot breathe well. Because the trees are antennas, the rivers are veins: the veins are poisoned, the antennas are cut down. The lakes

are emotions: the lakes are flooded. The volcanoes are its strength: the volcanoes are blocked. So the Earth is fighting for breath everywhere. So the Earth just wants to breathe for me the Earth is not angry, it just wants to breathe. Just like any of us. And so the movement of the Earth is as if it wants to free itself. In this concept of the Renewal, there are many who want to help us. I think the Earth is being visited by many different forces, from many planes and contexts. I speak with the spirits of nature, and the spirits of nature are really beautiful.

There was an experience that moved my soul very much: My meeting with the whales. There is a place in Mexico, where many whales live and are born. its very nice to see. But some people were going to go there to slaughter the whales. So I went there too, spiritually. I went there physically but then contacted the whales spiritually. To ask them what they wanted, and what could I do to help them, what could be done. And it was incredible, because when I got there and saw them, perceived their energy, their size its immense, its like feeling like a louse (little bug) on a whale. The whales are great, theyre mighty, and yet they respect us. When I

wastheres a lagoon there. And when I was in the middle of the lagoon, I did some spiritual work, to enter in contact with the whales. And I said to them: Forgive us, forgive us for all we have done over time. And the whales replied and I liked this very much. The whales said: We are relying on you (trust you). I thought, how can they be relying on us? And then after this very profound meeting, I was working with them for several days. They told

You (humanity) are the link, the bridge between the Heaven and the Earth. Only you can ask for help from the Heavens for the world.
me: If we didnt put our trust in mankind, we would die. So if, despite all the atrocities and the slaughter, the spirits, the beings of (higher) consciousness still trust in us, this is a great sign for me. The impediment, the block, as I see it, at all levels, is power. Simona: Are you talking about material power? Fernando: All sorts of power, emotional power, the desire for control, the desire to be more than the other. This is the worst for me, because this little wall of power blocks everything, everything stops when power steps in. So

I think, the less power humans possess, the freer they are.
But not just the power of the leaders or the millionaires: the power of a parent over his child, of a boss over his or her employees. No one (really) has power over another. Each one of us has to take back our power. And in any case, there is something profound (to understand) here: power is given up, you give up your power. Its not that someone comes and takes it from you, you give it up. So the point is, I (Fernando) do not give up my power. You may be my boss and you pay me and I respect you, but I am my own person. Simona: [Laughing] It seems that we are the only ones who can save the world?!

Fernando: We are not the only ones, but I think we are the ones who have the greatest responsibility. For good reason, we are the raza que enlaza (the race that forms the link) between the planes, that is our work. I want to say one last thing, for you As long as people believe, as long as mankind has faith, we have every hope of coming through this safely. As I see it, this is a very profound message. Gracias. David: Gracias a ti! Simona: It has been a great joy! Gracias, Fernando!

Damanhur, 1st September 2012

Translated from Spanish and transcribed into English by David Sutcliffe Photos: personal archive Simona Stoicescu