Noel Tyl, interview, Oslo, Norway, March 19th, 2007.

By Tore Lomsdalen

Noel Tyl - The Astrological Prometheus I arrived at the fashionable Bristol Hotel, in Oslo, Norway, with fifteen minutes to spare for my appointment with Noel Tyl. If there is something Tyl really does not like it is when people are late! His irritation was noticeable when some people came late to his extremely interesting weekend seminar this past weekend. He had given me 45 minutes of his tight, valuable time schedule. There is no half-way with Noel Tyl, so I had better to stick to his rules of the game! Noel is easily recognizable with his height at 6 foot 8 inches, a head higher than everybody else in the hotel lobby! With a broad smile and a firm hand, he greets me most cordially. I am overwhelmed by his sense of authority, his self-assurance, vitality and charisma. I thought to myself: How is it actually possible that one person can have all these qualities? I asked him about his name. My being named Noel comes from the fact that I was born around Christmas time. Noel, of course, is Christmas in French. Since I was so tall I guess, it took me such a long time to arrive(!) and I wasnt actually born until New Years Eve, December 31. Still my mother insisted I be called Noel.

Much laughter helped to ease the tension, at least on my part, before I made myself ready to shoot my first question. Before the seminar, I showed a picture of you to somebody I know. Her instant reaction was: Oh, he must be a very kind person; he has such nice and warm eyes! Even before I managed to ask if that description fitted him, Noel responded: -Well, I hope so; that is nice to hear. You know, when you are very tall, very strong with a dominating voice, it is sometimes challenging to be perceived as soft and gentle. As you might recall during my seminar this weekend, I made many references to this. I wanted to wake everybody up to the point that much of me is extremely gentle, loving, and emotional. I didnt want to scare anyone away! This gentleness and kindness: reflected by your Ascendant in Cancer? -Yes, but not just simply that. My Ascendant is at an Aries Point in 00 Cancer 04! The Aries Point emphasis brings it all forward. Noels pleasure with that shows, understandably, as I continue: You have the Sun in Capricorn. Is that were we can see you as a strong and focused businessman? -Well, I dont know if I am such a good businessman. I expect business to be done well, with respect to my sensitivities. There is the constant interplay of the 7th to 1st house, Capricorn-Cancer. The Sun in the 7th house is conjunct my Jupiter. I show a lot of enthusiasm for life, and when business comes into it, it better be good, or I will be disillusioned and hurt. Then life becomes problematic. This is how I feel about my Suns placement. If you owe me money and hand it to me, I trust you. I wont even count it! You have been very successful in other areas beside astrology. -I was an Opera Singer for 25 years, travelled all over much of the world. Then, I had agents who conducted business for me. Also, I have been an Executive in the Advertising and Public Relations fields. Nevertheless, I do have an eye for what we can call the Power of Business. Other than that, I dont want to carry it too far. And then you have your Moon in Leo. Yes, that is really who I am! . - I am a dramatic man. I need to be in the centre of the stage. I need to feel royal, if you will. I like to say that I have a King Complex (laughing), and I am at peace with this because I think Ive earned it! Here again, are the Sun-Capricorn energies within the MoonLeo complex. - The word earned it signifies being magnanimous, and that is the way I like to see myself. It is all focused in the 3rd house, communication, which is ruled by the Sun. So, when you start to talk about the Cancer Ascendant, you go to the Capricorn Sun, you end up with the Moon in Leo, and the Moon rules the Ascendant. This shows a network of hard core sensitivity, if you will, paying off as a strong communicator. Have these planetary constellations made it possible for you to reach fame, recognition and success as an astrologer? -You know, I have had more than one career. I have done many things in my life, and I have been successful in all of them. That is a gift from my creative side, as well as a responsibility within me to grow and fulfil my potentials. It is of course nice to think that one has fulfilled potentials in life. I am 70 years old, and I can now see that I have indeed fulfilled many. When I was 30 to 40 years old, I was working hard to make this happen. Here again, we see the expanded Capricorn energy, which the textbooks call ambition!

If you could live your life all over again, would you still have lived it out in the same way? -You know, I would have to. For me, it is all dramatic communication and learning. That is my life! I would not choose anything different. Actually, I could not, because that is where my gifts are. This is what interests me. There are of course certain ways I would change in how I did things, because we all make mistakes. Making mistakes are a part of our lifelong learning process. That is why mistakes are so important. If we take away the Astrologer Noel Tyl, what kind of person are we then left with? -I am an Artist. Sometimes artists can be very temperamental. But I think the point you are trying to get at is - am I at my Core Self more ambitious than aesthetic? I am the latter, I think! How did you get into astrology? -When I was at Harvard University, my studies in psychology were reinforced by studies in religion. I realized that religion tried to provide the answer to the question of why we exist. That is not a profound deduction, but something that we can deduce when we care to investigate. At the same time, I was fascinated with the process of individuation in social existence. How do I define who I am, how do I know why I am here? Those were my questions. When you look at this historically and through different cultures you discover that every individual emerges in league/in contrast with his or her environment. Many, many individuals are thought to be eccentric, different, weird, neurotic when they are actually just being exceptional, but they may not be tolerated by their environment. In the mainstream, society does not want you to be terribly different. So you wanted to show it is OK to be different? -Thats correct. To be individual. When you study individuation, you are really talking about special development. By individualization do you mean individualism? -Yes, in the sense of becoming an individual. I am probably making this more complex than I should, but I became fascinated with the individual and how much society could support that state of being. I found out that all individualization in the past was somehow explained through this thing called, ASTROLOGY! What was psychology within society before we actually had the body of knowledge we now call Psychology? Remember: psychology is barely 150 years old! I became very interested in the appreciation of the individual. I found out that, by investigating astrology, I could come closer to supporting the individualization process. You studied psychology, right? Nevertheless, you thought astrology was a better answer to the process of individualization than psychology. -Yes, you are saying it better than I am, says Noel, laughing. Within reason! Do you think many psychologists would agree on such a statement? With a big smile, he answers: They should! Noel, what do you think lies behind your enormous worldwide success. Why are people attracted by you?

-Well, some people have pointed out that I do have my share of charisma, and I am honoured by that. It is rather hard not to stand out when you are 6 08 , when you weigh an 1/8 of a ton, when you know how to talk and you sound good. But remember, those gifts become, as well, responsibilities, and you can easily be discarded by society if you dont take them seriously and reach a certain standard. I desperately want to do well. With the grace of effort and knowledge, I think I have become a leader in my field. People like to be near someone who is confident. When that confidence is augmented with personal dramatization, it becomes quiet strong. But you do have a message as well? -I hope so ... What just went through my mind is this: you can say the same thing at age 35, but people believe more and see more of you when your hair turns white and you are 70! Time helps wine to mature, as time also helps individuals to find their place. What is astrology for you? -It is a way of understanding some order within the all pervasive creative principle. Is this combined with believing in a divine entity? -I dont know, perhaps. There have to be reasons for all of this, says Noel with heavy emphasis on, - have. --If I can help to illuminate that sense of purpose in life and the strategy to fulfil it, then I am doing something helpful. Can you practice astrology without believing in a superior invisible power, like our God? -I mentioned earlier my theology study along with psychology that inspired me. I studied with Paul Tillich, the great protestant theologian, one of my teachers at Harvard. These studies seasoned everything, you know. He wrote this famous book, Courage to be, or in German Mut zu Sein. That is a powerful statement. We are talking existentialism here. Your horoscope will show me where you need courage and strength to Become! Nobody wants to be alone in that effort. Is it possible to find a common sense version of astrology? -Sure, and especially if you use the word common sense as being practical. Arent you an exponent of astrology on a practical level? Definitely. That is why I do not like to talk about spirituality in my presentations, necessarily. For me spirituality is a means, not a goal. I can do things with a spiritual awareness, but becoming spiritually aware is not going to do me much good if that is the goal in itself. The goal must be to become who I am, as fully as possible, in terms of the environment, individual potentials, and personal dreams! Perhaps to reach that goal with the help of spiritual exercise, yes. How do the planets influence us human beings living on the Earth? -I knew you would ask me that, says Noel laughing and goes on: There is no way yet to answer that question. I think we know securely that the planets are symbols and archetypes; they are telling us something and, as with all symbols, they must constantly be refreshed with modern meanings. The Age of Psychology has changed all of symbolism, and so has the Information Age through cybernetics. New words and concepts are born all the time. --On a micro/macrocosmic spectrum, if you by chance attend a performance of the Verdi Requiem, for example, your entire life perception can be changed. --Why is that? Because a sudden inflow of

sound, passion, drama and existential thought has said something to the symbolism of your Being. You become more. Astrology reveals the stuff of becoming through those guideline symbols, and it is up to the individual to give them meaning, to give them significance. The astrologer is just the helper. Is this what you put into your famous statement, - Planets dont do anything, people do! -Yes, thats the truth. I dont walk down the street and wait for a planet to tell me when to stop or walk on a green light. My common sense has to be seasoned by an awareness of my Being. My awareness of my Being involves many, many archetypal lessons. These lessons are symbolized by the arrangement of the planets in my horoscope, within my lifetime. But isnt it so Noel, that people act and react based on planetary positions? -Sure, I do that myself. I have accomplished some remarkable things in my own life with very careful timing, a lot of knowledge. I just sold my house; astrologically, everything seemed perfect for me to sell that house and make a tremendous profit. For once, I said to myself, I shall be very successful with a planned business action. I became an astrologically guided businessman in selling my house. This is absolute precision, and I have written it up in detail on my web side, www.noeltyl.com, under Analytical Techniques. --I am so proud of that; its a real sense of fulfilment within some life plan. I planned the listing of the house for sale. I sold it without an agent. I knew exactly within two days when I anticipated it would be sold, in the future. On that final day, a Sunday afternoon, I was sitting with my wife waiting for the phone to ring. I was scared. All of a sudden, at 3PM, the phone rang, somebody who had already seen the house wanted to come back. Two and a half hours later, the house was sold. I wanted to cry, everything was so perfectly planned and had come together! Of course, I do use astrology. My wife always asks me for the best time to get the repairman to come and fix something in our house. That as well has proved to be very useful for us. Astrology has helped me a lot. I use it all the time. It is a nice to know that what you do is right in line with your best performance. Is there a lack of interest in astrology today? -You know, it comes in waves. In the 1970s we perhaps had the high point of the wave. I think we have dropped down, and we must start to build it back up. What do we have to do to catch the interest of the public? -We have to learn how young people can return to studies. In my opinion, the younger generation has forgotten the values of studying. That is because of the Internet. Everything is accessible immediately. People do not want to settle down and spend hours in thorough study. They dont want to read books. They want it fast. They want it all in one screen display. So, that means we have to change our way of performing astrology in the future. -Perhaps. It is an interesting thought. That was actually on my mind when I wanted to answer your question. However, there is no substitute for rich education, reading or thinking. Those things must return in a way that is compatible with the Internet. Its like people do not wear neckties anymore.

I used to dress like that all the time in my seminars. If I do that now, people look at me as if I am out of fashion. --We have to get astrology back into fashion. I think; there has to be compatibility between education and the Internet. Internet is not education. Internet is speed learning. The purpose and rewards of education have been lost because of the speed of information. Do you think Sun Sign Columns have been a curse or a blessing to astrology? -If it is managed well by the astrologer answering a question about a Sun Sign, it becomes fascinating and alluring. I think if a layman asks me any question about astrology, I think I can intrigue him by saying a few things. Its like a box under the Christmas tree: you are waiting for a new experience. But it must be done well. Noel, I would like to turn to your astrology for a minute. You have interpreted more than 20,000 agrological charts, written 39 books, keeping and holding seminars, courses and lectures all over the world, with diploma level students in 26 countries. Is it the techniques you use, or is it the human side of Noel Tyl that attracts all these masses of people? I think we would have to say, Both. The techniques are decidedly humanistic, psychotherapeutic. I then leave the measurement guidelines behind as quickly as possible and get into an artistic application of those measurements, adapted to individual significances. What is then so special with your techniques? -I have contributed some major discoveries to modern astrology, deeply reflecting the human growth challenge. I am the formulator of Saturn Retrograde phenomenology and how that reflects such an important dimension of all upbringings in the Western World. All my views about the Nodal Axis involvements in the early home life development, maternal influences and so forth, now are thoroughly proved in theory and in practice. I brought Psychological Need Theory into the symbology of astrology. There is another thing, the innovation of Psychodynamic Interplay among the Houses, which Im very proud of. And more It all works to show the process of becoming, rather than the old-time fatalistic approach to astrology. I cannot see astrology as a dead and final list-description. I see it as guidelines to the process of becoming, and that is an exciting part of astrology! --In many ways, it is easier, as it is mostly artistic; the astrologer is enriched by the process as well! How many astrological measurements do you really need to begin a meaningful conversation with a client?

How many? -Few; just the normal things you must respect and consider as building blocks of life. Then it is up to the individual to find the individual level of that expression with his or her personal experience. What about Solar Arc, of which you are a kind of a Godfather? -I updated the Solar Arc world of technique and understanding, editing all the work that Reinhold Ebertin did, modernizing it and showing how to use it creatively. You have created your own wheel system as well? -Well, there is a wheel called the Noel Tyl Wheel on Matrix WinStar 2+. It is the easiest wheel to read in the whole world, so to say. Nothing gets in the way of vision: the Midheaven is straight up and down every time with no tilting disorientation. There are no colours. --That only takes your mind off business.

Do you think we should have a standardized wheel system? -Yes, I think it would help. It is like when you buy photographic equipment, nothing is standardized. It only makes it all more complicated. One lens should fit all the various camera brands. Would then the Noel Tyl Wheel be a good standard? With a big smile and a laugh, - An excellent suggestion, I might say! Which House System do you use? -I use Placidus. Remember: people dont realize that, in all House systems, the Ascendant and the Midheaven are always the same. If you want to make a case for internal house cusps, which can vary no more than a couple of degrees, be my guest! I like to simplify, and I then look to the individual to give his or her astrology a meaning, rather than looking to myself to enforce a meaning on the person. I know how to get there; I know all of that classical archetypal groundwork, of course. But the individual is going to twist it around and change it all. This is the process we must capture. Have you tried to work with Equal Hose System? -Sure, but the lens on my camera operates beautifully with Placidus. Period. Up here in Norway, or any other Polar Areas, you have many extreme distortions, which I do not understand, and I dont think you do either. It is very hard, very difficult. In your consultations, how much astrological terminology do you use? -Not a word. If I am talking to someone with astrological sophistication, sometimes I might instruct, or that person might ask a question, Usually, I say, let us talk about it later. My mind is at a different setting at the moment. --People who are coming to you do not know anything about astrology anyway. Astrological technical expressions will only confuse them. Jargon is an easy defence for astrologers with nothing to say about life. According to you, how do you tell a good astrologer? -I have been asked that question about 200 times on TV, radio, in magazine and newspaper interviews. My answer is always the same: You look into his or her eyes! Which brings us back to your opening question! You see my point? adds Noel with a smile in those eyes. Besides that, I do believe a good astrologer is one who trusts his instrument. The sooner students of astrology can back off from the rigid, traditional sets of rules and descriptions, the sooner they become artists of their craft. My advice to my students: Let yourself go, trust your instrument.

Do you give advice to your clients during a consultation? -No. I dont think anybody wants to be given advice. I give reflections. I hold up a mirror, but I dont make decisions for people. When somebody says to you, -what would you do in a situation like this? I dont think they really want to know. I think they want to hear several points of view.

Thats different. Id anticipate that and would say, You could see it this way, or what if... These are strong key words in introducing this line of thought. If you pay a lot of attention to how you talk, you can do it so much better. Today, people tend to talk very sloppily. How much time do you use for a consultation, including preparation? -It is 23 to 26 minutes for a full preparation. The consultation in person takes about 50 minutes. If it is done by telephone, it is 37 to 45 minutes. I am comfortable with doing 6 consultations a day, 8 or 9 gets a little on the heavy side. I have to keep a tight time schedule and have a choreography that allows me to be efficient. You see, here we have the Sun in Capricorn again. Do you send out any written reports? -Not anymore. But it is a good way to learn, and early in my career I was in a position where I had to do that. What do you think of computerized interpretations? -Some of them are darn good for how far they can go. But I have stopped looking. For the early days of the Internet, I wrote some programmes where you could assemble a horoscope with my words. It actually turned out quiet well, I must admit. However, I do not encourage people to get mechanized horoscope reports. The individual is soon lost. Can we implement traditional or orthodox astrology in our modern society today? -Not by itself. I think everybody has to know that. The traditional base of astrology is not difficult to assimilate. It is repetitively presented in every textbook. But Astrology must be in pace with the times! --For example, you cannot just keep Freud out of our art because it is not traditional. You must remember, he was one of the greatest, decisive, analytical inspirations of modern time. You have to be able to assimilate that into the symbolism of astrology. Astrology reflects life as we know it, and understand it NOW.

So you dont use any techniques from the traditional astrology? I use almost all of them, of course. But I like to think I use them optimally artistically: simplified, humanised, and efficient. Not mechanized. --That adds up to being individual and practical. According to you Noel, who is the greatest astrologer ever lived? [For the very first time in the interview, Noel, did not have a ready answer] Let me think for a second. I have never been asked that question before. After a while, - I cannot answer that! The reason why I cant answer that is that time has a way of polishing moments in history into a biased shine. Often they are made more splendid than they actually were. There are astrological predictions claimed by, or claimed for astrologers that seemingly are of huge and magnificent importance; they have huge drama attached to them --the Great Fire of London, for example, predicted by William Lily a long time before the fact. However, when you really get down to them, get into them or research them, either they didnt occur, or they were not that hot.

I have seen transcripts of some of the consultations done in the last 70 to 80 years by some of the big-name astrologers. They are embarrassing; embarrassing, compared to what an astrologer is capable of doing today. But back then, they were great, I guess. I talk about astrologers in the 30s, 40s and 50s. If you would put yourself on a list of the persons who have contributed most to astrology, where would you be? I would think pretty well up there, he answers confidently. [Noel looks at his watch and shows me five finger, - 5 minutes to go. ] What was the last book you were reading? That I have been reading or writing? Noels asks, as we both laugh heartily. I just finished a biography of Charlemagne, the great French king. At the same time, I finished a biography of Mohammed, and at the same time, a book about all the things that went on in the construction of St. Peters Basilica in Rome over a period of 226 years. I enjoyed that thoroughly. --Regarding Mohammed, I have been able, I think, to find a tenable birth date and time for Mohammed. Very difficult to do, but I love that kind of work. Noel, what makes you cry, angry or happy? -I cry easily when I see somebody doing something splendid. [He said with shining eyes as, clearly, he reviewed silently cases and observations past.] I am so happy for the person who can cook up a nice sauce for the fish, win a golf match as an underdog, or play the trumpet well marching in a student parade Even seeing an astrologer who is effective, touches my heart. My greatest moments now are applauding the graduation of astrologers in my Masters Certification Course! Angry! When someone is late, and his facial expression does show he really means it. -That it because of what it stands for, not being organized, not respecting the situation of the appointment of the time; being sloppy with life and others cooperation. What makes me happy? asks Noel, showing his warm smile again, When people around me, are showing in their actions and words that they appreciate me. I love the words, - Thank you! Thank you, Noel, for this very interesting talk with you. Tore Lomsdalen is Norwegian, living in Milan, Italy, a Diploma Student of The Faculty of Astrological Studies in London, UK. He can be reached at: info@astrolom.com