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The First Hive

The First Hive Posts

---------------------------------------------------------------------------The oldest known log from the Hive message board (Aug 1, 1997 to Sep 6, 1997) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------All you busy little bees out there have a greater collective knowledge than any single one of us could ever dream of. If we can pool this information then the liberation of the realm will be unstoppable. If you need help understanding any of th following (or anything else for that matter), then post your question and Strike will answer: * * * * * * * * * Troubles understanding "Total Synthesis" (Doubtful) Troubles with Pihkal Freshman lab techniques Research Precursors Sources Legal Medical Sex Life

If Strike doesn't know the answer, Strike will find someone who does. Immediately! All questions are answered in the open that that everyone can benefit from them. Leave all comments, (good or bad), reports of abusive law enforcement episodes, hot product offerings, recipes and secrets. Leave your email address, or don't.. Strike doesn't care either way. But you should leave something. Strike keeps no secrets, nor should you. --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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the.Database. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/1/97 What in the world is the actual liscence called that one must posses in order to actually purchase a chemical that is on the regulated chemical list? In short, can I see an example of that "permit" if possible, do you know of any location, gov'mnt or otherwise, that I could actually "view" the liscence, or document or whatever? Help me out Strike.. I have a project!! Brandon Lee xiieon@usa.net blee@wac.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/1/97 ANSWER-- Some of you seem confused regarding what Strike wrote about obtaining Isosafrole. That's the keyword right there: Isosafrole. The Penta Corporation, China etc. are sources of commercially produced *Isosafrole* which is a controlled substance. ANSWER-- Ammonium Hydroxide is not the same as liquid ammonia. Ammonia itself is a gas at room temperature and only exists as a liquid under pressure such as the ammonia one gets in a gas cylinder. ANSWER-- It is illegal to purify safrole from sassafras oil. Since your statement seems to indicate that that is what you are doing personally then Strike will not answer your question. Sorry. ELECTROLYTIC REDUCTION: The latest craze in ephedrine conversion. Strike has been forwarded quite a few recipes that were taken from news groups. Some of them you guys have probably seen already is you search these news groups regularly. Then again, maybe you haven't. What Strike *doesn't* know is if Strike has the legal right to display stuff submitted to these other sites. If so, then that would be good because Strike would like to present them in the original language of the authors who wrote them. OK, that being said, Strike doesn't want to hear a bunch of lies from people who want to see these recipes. Does Strike have the right to postcontent from other web sites? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/3/97 Strike, I noticed you commented that the formic acid/H2O2 method for producing MD-P2P is more cost effective than using the Jones Reagent method. Doesn't the fact that the Jones Reagent method utilizes safrole rather than Isosafrole off-set any cost regarding the reagents used to produce the ketone in question. As stated in your book, you start with safrole (using the Jones reagent) and end up with a yield of approximately

80%. Not bad as you don't have to spend 24 plus hours to produce isosafrole. Any further edification of these methods (Jones reagent method virus formic acid/H2O2 --> MD-P2P) posted here would be greatly appreciated! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/3/97 ANSWER--appologies to anyone who has asked a question but did not get an answer because Strike never disclosed the one major rule of database ettiquette, which is: "You can ask any question you want. You can say anything you want. But if you phrase a question in such a way that it is obvious that you or your friends are actuall doing something illegal or planning to do something illegal, then Strike will not answer." Whether it is conspiracy or not to answer, Strike has adopted this one rule to protect both you and Strike. So lets keep things hypothetical. Cool? (Again, apologies to you, Mr/Mrs. psuedoephedrine pill extractor. ANSWER--"Mexican methylamine": Man, Strike is telling you that one can approach a mexican chemical store buttnaked with a bunch of heroin hypodermics sticking out of ones butt and and they will still sell anything to that person. It helps, though, to be mexican. As you can see, Mexico still values the ideal of pure capitalism. The methylamine is placed into empty ammonia jugs (cleaning supplies) and then it's back accro> -------------------------------------------------------------------------Transfer interrupted! ylamine is too easy to make for one to be messing around in mexico. The absolute highest yield one can get with the bromosafrole method is about 50% using methylamine. Using ammonia in alcohol one can expect 10-20% at the most. The product is pretty clean in both procedures. Hope this has helped. ANSWER--The permit one gets to legally buy 'regulated' chemicals is issued by the state in which one lives. Here in Texas it is issued by the department of public safety. Strike is not exactly sure of the exact title of the permit. The application for the permit is a stapled bunch of papers one gets in the mail listing the kinds of chemicals that are controlled, storage requirements, etc.. All one does is write down their name and/or business, the naughty chemicals one is interested in obtaining and the reason or intended use for the chemicals. Now all one does is mail it in for approval. See? That wasn't too hard was it? OH yeah, Strike forgot to mention something. In about 2-3 weeks expect some state narcotics officers to knock on your door and grill you *hard* on what the hell kind of project a young college student needs chemicals such as these for. No bullshit! ANSWER--Only X can be made from sassafras oil, not meth.

ANSWER--Strike likes the jones reagent method on an equall basis with the isosafrole method. It really depends on the persons preferrences, abilities and, most importantly, which chemicals they have the best accessto and/or money for. Bottom line: they all work. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/3/97 In exchange for either some references or procedures for the aminomercuration of safrol I can give a complete explaination of why the H2O2/formic acid oxidation only works for isosafrol along with a easy source for 30% H2O2. Thanks! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/4/97 Hey Strike, what is the best way to obtain Red P (matches, flares, etc.) and what is the process? Also, I understand some brands of chicken feed (for laying) contain ephedrine. Can the ephedrine be easily extracted from the chicken feed in sufficient quantities? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/5/97 Love your page. Have not read your book but will soon One question: Eugenol (chief constituent of essential oil of cloves) has a similar molecular structure to safrole. Someone told me that eugenol maybe converted to safrole with heat, pressure and the use of a nickel catalyst. In the process one hydrogen atom would be released. What do you think? Any ideas? Also, could eugenol be used as a precursor to e or other psychedelic amphetamines. Talk to you later, Simon, Perth, WA, Australia. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/5/97 Strike, anhydrous liquid ammonia is one hard as chemical to find even though it is not a watched chemical. I just planted some corn and need small quantities to help nitrogen intake (small) Can you give any suggestions for the procurment of small quantities of ammonia gas? Please advise and you are doing an excellent job! Might want to start newsletter....think about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/5/97 Ok.. I can't resist showing off any longer.. =] The reasone you need isosafrol to do the H2O2/formic acid oxidation is this: When isosafrol is

treated with performic acid an epoxide is created across the alpha and beta carbons which upon treatment with H2O/H2SO4 (dilute) opens first to the alpha,beta glycol which is then quickly dehydrated by the acid (benzyl cations are very stable) which gives you the ene-ol aka ketone at the beta carbon. When safrol is exposed to the same conditions you get a beta, gamma glycol which when treated with dil. H2SO4 dehydrates at the beta carbon (secondary carbocation more stable than primary) which then forms the 3,4-methylenedioxypropionaldehyde which is most likely not going to survive being boiled in H2SO4 and would be oxidized to the 3,4-methylenedioxypropionic acid. Have I earned an outline of the aminomercuration? I have general ref's but I'd like some particulars... Thanks! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/5/97 I guess the 'ocotea cymbarum' sassafrass oil is ~95% safrol. OTOH a FOAF dreamt that a vaccuum distillation of garden variety sassafras extract ($5 per 50 ml at healthfood stores) yielded 88% safrol (10 mmHg 103-107 deg. C range). She says there's no replacement for pure starting materials in avoiding headaches later. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/5/97 ANSWER-- Red phosphorus: flare tips are best (Thanks, Z). The flare tips are ground up, boiled in water then filteres hot thru a coffee filter. Red phosphorus is not soluble in water so it will be, for the most part, the stuff (filter cake) that remains in the coffee filter. Wash once with water. ANSWER-- go to Stuff page for psuedoephedrine chicken feed source. ANSWER--eugenol: Is a methoxy, alcohol, allylbenzene essential oil component with the methoxy and alcohol groups ortho to each other (Don't ask). I have suggested some ways to demethylate the stuff and a ton of ways to methylenate the resulting catechol species in order to get safrole (please don't ask). Strike seriously, seriously doubts that both conversion steps could occur simply thru a nickle catalyzed procedure. ANSWER-- Shit yes, eugenol can be a precursor to other psychedelics. There are some simple procedures (Riemer/Tiemann, etc.) that can add functional groups all over that eugenol to get a lot of whacky precursors. As eugenol is an allylbenzene just like safrole, It (and its converted forms) can be aminated just like safrole. -- P.S... Strike heard that there is an import ban on literature such as this in Australia. Is such a thing really true?

ANSWER-- Liquid ammonia: Liquid ammonia can be purchased in gas cylinders from hte specialty gas cylinder store. These places sell oxygen to hospitals and home care people, acetylene, N2 etc. One asks for a big old fat butload of ammonia to be placed in ones cylinder. This insures that a hefty layer of liquid ammonia will form in the tank. If one were to shake the tank they would hear and feel the ammonia sloshing around in the bottom. Now, if one were to open the regulator of that tank when it's in an upright position than one would get ammonia gas. But, if one were to turn that tank upside down and extend a tube from the outlet into a beaker of "corn plants" one would get liquid ammonia pouring directly in. Those corn plants should be of a nature that can absorb all that ammonia because its going to vaporize immediately in the normal outside atmosphere. It is worth noting that ammonia cylinders are used extensively as a component of commerial refridgeration. COMMENT-- Well, folks, there you have it! A definative answer to the question of whether safrole can substitute for isosafrole inthe oxidation using H2O2/formic. Answer: No! (Strike knew it all along!) Thank you very much for the contribution. However, we here at the Hive are an ungrateful lot so,... uh.. How about that 30% H2O2 source?!! (Note: confidential aminomercuration info sent to contributor) -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/5/97 RE: 30% H2O2 I was browsing the aisles of my fave health food store in Louisville, KY. When I should happen upon several bottles of 30% H2O2 (forget the name but it's on Bardstown road for anyone near there). They were on the bottom shelf and seemed as if they'd been there for awhile. This blew me away for several reasons: 1) 30% H2O2 is reactive as hell .. and produces nice white blotches on whatever skin comes in contact with it (personal experience). Supposedly, it also causes flammable materials to burst into flame when spilled on such things. 2) With the above in mind it's an immense liability to release this into public hands for *consumption* (I think the idea is that it's to be diluted and drank as a enriched oxygen source). 3) The 'more is better' syndrome present in the unaware healthfood crowd could make for some nasty disasters with this compound. So, I think if your local health food store doesn't stock it they should be able to order it for you or else perhaps check the advertisements in magazines of that nature. Anyhow, this suprised me but made me happy that yet another source was available for those without Access. It is scary tho that this would be available to those without proper training (at least a few org chem lab classes) or equipment (a hood etc..)might give something a go that they might not be prepared for. Cheers! -Gink --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8/6/97 In theory to produce the Jones Reagent mentioned in your book, would one use Chromic Acid, flakes [which is Chromium (VI) Oxide CrO3] or would one use a Chromic Acid solution (if solution, what % 10 -??). Also, the H2SO4--- 96-98% reagent? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/6/97 Strike - There is an import ban on some literature into Australia. The list, however, of such material is constantly changing and is difficult to enforce (as you can probably imagine!) I am not aware that your publication is prohibited, Thanks for your reply regarding eugenol. Where can I get info regarding the Riemer/Tiemann methods? Are they in your book? Safrole is extremely difficult to get in Australia; in fact is a 'controlled substance', and has been for a couple of years. Eugenol, on the other hand, is not, hence the interest. Great Stuff!!! Simon, Perth, WA, Australia -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/6/97 Could one distill the dilute hydrochloric acid purchased from the hardware store to lab grade 35-38% needed for processes in your book. Also, could one do the same for battery acid (distill to 96-98%) lab grade... Thanks.. This site is becoming the best info source on the NET!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/7/97 lets say you added KBr to conc. H2SO4 would HBr gas be evolved? If this gass were bubbled through anyhdrous methanol would methyl bromide gas be evolved? If this were bubbled through an ammonia soluton would you get methly ammonium bromide upon evaporation of the water? might methyl ammonum bromide be used with safrol directly instead of HBr and then CH3NH2? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/7/97 Check out http://www.zosos.com/ they sell an amazing range of equipment and chemicals to the public. Look on their distillation app. page. I've used a unit much like the combined vigereaux/condenser jobbie and let me tell ya.. nothing beats these things for recovery due do the small overall flightpath of the distillate. Expensive but worth every penny.. -Gink --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8/8/97 your page looks awsome, i'm gunna order the book. but i have some questions, and i dont know if it will be covered in the book. in PiHKAL solution of 50g. 2,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde in 175ml. nitroethane there was added 10g. anhydrous ammonium acetate and the mixture was heated on a steam bath for 2 h." my question is since anhydrous ammonium acetate is a gas above -32c. (i think) how was this weighed or how could it be weighed out? how was it added to the nitroethane containing 2,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde? what was that mixture in? how was it heated withought the relece of gas? what did that step do to the 2,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde besides makeing it 2-nitro-1-[2,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl]propene (how did the molicual change) are there any alternatives to that step that would be more practical if not how could a layman do it? i am only interested in synthesising 2-nitro-1-(2,4,5-trimethoxyphenyl)propene, not tma-2 (i would never break a law). does anyone know where THF can be purchased cheaply (its pretty expensive) is it a watched or illeagle chemical? how dangerious is working with LAH withought a fume hood, i know it explodes when water touches it and when there is alot of moisture in the air, would useing a dehumidifier in the room work? is LAH a watched or illeagle chemical? can i use the same condencer for reflux and distilation? how long of a condencer do i need for a 1000ml. boiling flask? what kind of condencer is best? how would i remove a liquid "under vacume"? i know i need a vacume pump but what other things do i need, and how is it set up/done? if i needed to add a liquid "under reflux" would i use a 2-neck flask with a condencer on one and a seporation funnel with stopclock on the other? sorry for asking so many questions but i am very interested in chemestry and also very interested in not blowing myself up! it would also be nice if you could recomend a good freshman chemestry book that outlines basic procedures. thank you in advance for your help. have a great day. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/9/97 ANSWER--Chromic Acid: Pure chromic acid is always best. A % solution works as long as it's equal to or greater than the concentration necessary for the Jones reagent. Don't even think about Strike whipping out the old calculator to determine an appropriate % solution. That is something you must do. COMMENT -- "Livin" in a land down under....where information doesn't flow and men something-or-other..." Wow! Australia sounds positively Russian! Do they also tear out pages of science journals that say the same things? Here in the U.S. we have a cartoon sitcom called the Simpsons that did an hilarious spoof on Australia. Man it was funny. (Topic unrelated to drugs)

ANSWER -- Red P: Red P has no synthetic use that Strike is aware of. Which is a shame because the inner core of a baseball is almost 80% red phosphorus. ANSWER -- Other sources of pseudoephedrine: landmines mayonnaise and hotdogs. Seriously though, there are OTC stimulants (very small amounts), ma huang (ephedra, not pseudo) and god knows where else. If Strike were a drug maker (which of course Strike isn't), Strike would call up the maker of Quick Lay and just ask them what outlets in the area carry their stuff. Alternatively, one could direct order from the company. Conversation with Quicklay ordering dept.: Quick Lay: "what exactly will you be using our product for Mr. Metham?" (---very suspicious tone) Mr. Metham (in best impersonation of Southern chicken farmer drawl): "Well, ah figger 'taint none a yore bidness, smart ass! But since ya asked Ah got mahself fore hunnert hayens what 'taint doin' nuthin but sleepin' on thuh job!" ANSWER--hc1 & h2SO4: Yes! These 2 acids can be distilled from dilute store chemicals. HC1 forms a constant boiling mix of around 35-38%. H2SO4 will distill as almost pure (90+%). Muriatic acid (pool chem, hardware store) is often found as 35% which of course can be used as is. H2SO4 is almost pure in some brands of drain opener (try plumbing supply stores). -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/9/97 The inner core of a baseball is almost 80% red phosphorus? Is this bullshit? If not would one use the same process as with flare tips? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/9/97 I heard a while back that the Ritter reaction using acetonitrile and sulfuric acid with safrole could yield the acetamide and further hydrolysis could yield MDA. Does this work since the original published recipe uses Allylbenzene to get straight amph.? I've heard elsewhere this doesn't work for safrole. Comments? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/9/97 The inner core of a baseball is 80% red P? Why the hell is this so? Hypothetically, if one where to try and extract this Red P what would be the correct procedure? Also, this "quick lay" thing is very interesting. I have chickens that are actually "sleeping on the job" and would like to try quick lay. But, I have the same problem; i can find anyone in my area that

stocks it. Now, how does one go about finding the manufacturers of quick lay? This is a VERY interesting research technique that I have no experience with. How do I find certain products and their manufacturers when I cant even find the product itself and read the pachaging? Thomas register does come up with anything when I search for "quick lay." I know this product exist. Strike, gives us the scoops on the research technique. And again, your a genious! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/10/97 ANSWER--Some crazy sounding HBr protocol: Let's start with the first hypothesis. Strike supposes that HBr gas can evolve from mixing KBr and H2SO4. Usually the two are mixed in water to produce an aqueous HBr solution. Strike has no protocols for producing HBr gas in this manner. But hell, Strike is a sucker for a good theory so Strike will bite on this one. So we have HBr bubbling directly into methanol to give bromomethane and water. A little Sn2 action maybe. Again, Strike's theoretical protocols would support using the aq. HBr solution from above and refluxing it with methanol. However, Strike can't really prove your theory wrong so Strike will bite on this one as well and move to part 3. Methylamonnium bromide from bromomethane and aq. ammonia? Strike is starting to get a headache here! Part 4: a dinucleophile in a direct attack on safrole? No way, Jose! The nergy needed to effect an addition would be onerous. Besides, if the methylamine were to somehow add to the beta carbon, what's going to add to the vacant orbital of the gamma carbon? Bromine? If you have any referrences alluding to this final part then let Strike know and then Strike can give you a better answer. All in all you are displaying some very wise applications of thought on how these procedures work. Keep it up! ANSWER--13+ questions: Yikes! Strike is not sure Strike purchased enough space on this server to answer all these questions properly. We will knock out the first 5 or 6 by saying that ammonium acetate is a solid. When one buys the stuff and opens the container one will see a bunch of white, sticky 'wet-looking' crystals. One might say at this point, "Oh great! My ammonium acetate is not anhydrous!". Yes it is! It just looks wet. LAH is watched. It will explode with efficient quantity in water, but using it is not as dire as it sounds. Luckily, Strike can't answer the rest of your questions because the dreaded 'I" word appears in all of them. Don't make drugs! BTW, where are you getting all of these exotic benzaldehydes? ANSWER--Crank, crystal: You wanna know something wierd? Strike has always wonderred the same damn thing! What the hell is in that yellow crank?! Is it dirty meth? Shrug! Strike has never cared enough about the stuff to find out. ANSWER--To exract red P from a baseball one will need to remove the covering, grind the core up in a blender and then..and then..Oh for crying out loud! I can't believe anyone would fall for the old red-P-in-the-baseball routine. ANSWER--The Ritter reaction does not work on safrole and only slightly

works on allylbenzene. COMMENT--You are going in the right direction by looking in the Thomas Register to find the maker of Quick Lay. Strike is sure that it and other producers of similar products would be under headings such as livewstock or feed supplements or poultry and the like. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/10/97 More comments on the Ritter reaction requested. Has it been tried? Why doesn't it work? Why does allylbenzene work and safrole does not? Does polymerization occur? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/10/97 Hi all, I have been browsing the page and thought I might be able to suggest some sources for some chems that I have seen mentioned here. Looks like Red Phosphorous is a bit of a tuffy for some folks to come by. Fireworks supply companies sell it. One place I have found is Pyrotek their number is 717 256-3087. I feel kinda bad about giving this info out (i.e. if you are doing something illegal) but fireworks are illegal too so what the hell. They sell it for $8.95 a pound plus shipping and Haz-mat. Fireworks supply stores also sell alot of other good chems that might be useful as well (methylene chloride, acetone, hexamine etc etc etc.) another pyro place you can try is firefox. Email is firefox@pcaxxess.net, they have a website too www.pcaxxess.net/~firefox. Also I have seen some talk about concentrated H2O2, a good place to get it is swimming pool supply stores. There is a pool treatment alternative to chlorine called Baquacil and (don't hold me to the actual name) but I think it is Baquashock. It is 27% Hydrogen peroxide and the rest is water. I hope this helps some of you out. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/11/97 Ok, is there ANYONE that has an exact address of someone in the US that has small going wants help, Date: 8/12/97 Is it hypothetically possable to convert sesamol (4-7 liter cylinders) of liquid anhydrous ammonia? My corn crop is to shit!!!! Its a small crop, but a crop notheless. Everyone I call be to buy huge amounts of this stuff, I dont need that much! Please anyone. .....thanks.

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(3,5-methylenedioxyphenol) into 3,4-methylenedioxyphenylacetone? If so how would this hypothetically be done starting with 100g. sesamol, what would the yield be? If it is possable could you post refrence to a journal artical or reasearch paper? BTW I have heard of a method of prouducing TMA-2 from Calamus essential oil were (trans- or Alpha) Asarone (2,4,5-trimethoxy-1-propenylbenzene) is converted to TMA-2 by animation. What do you know about that? know of any journal articals or reasearch papers relating to that? Thanx. Oh baby, have you ever hit upon Strike's ultra-secret biophysiocerebrological warfare project! For those who don't know, sesamol is 3,4-methylenedioxyphenol. Try to imagine safrole with an OH where the 'allyl' is. Sorry, but Strike is completely hush-hush on this subject until testing is complete. Asarone, elemicin etc. can be aminated just like safrole to become extrmely powerful amphetamines. Journal articles? Nah! Don't need 'em. The amination procedures for speed and X are sufficient. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/12/97 Im sorry but "Quick lay" doesnt exist in this world!!!!!! My chickens will have to find some OTHER feed supplement to help them out. I beginning to wonder if active ingredients are just included in regular old chicken feed. Producers of similiar product? similiar product? similiar products? Hmmm. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/13/97 Its official: THERE IS NO SUCH PRODUCT AS QUICK LAY!!!!!! Im sorry to say this but its true. I have spoken to experts (research ;)) and they say in their more that twenty years of raising ostriches, rhenu (sp) AND chicken, they have NEVER used a product called quick lay nor have they EVER heard of such products. Strike, PLEASE prove me a liar on this one! PLEASE! Quicklay! Quicklay! Quicklay! Are all of you on Quicklay?! An insane ex-biker hepped Strike to Quicklay, and since then Strike has heard enough anectdotal evidence to convince Strike that Quicklay does (or used to) exist. Look harder! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/13/97 To the person with the info on Foreworks Supply Comapnies on 8/10/97: Just because something is illegal doesn't mean it's wrong or immoral. Check your premises. ---And thanks for your info.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/13/97 A question to those of you who've tried most of Strike's Top 10: Which method have you found to be the best and easiest -- considering amount of background chemistry knowledge required and easy availability of chemicals? (This person has all the necessary glassware and knows how to distill, extract, wash, separate, etc. but that's about it.) I feel this person has person had started using this method before having gotten Strike's book and would have definitly invested in other chemicals had this person gotten her book beforehand. Or perhaps does anyone have info on any other methods that might make use of all this HBr and Glacial Acetic Acid this person has aquired? Do not dispair. Return to this site on Sunday (08/17) for the most collossal, indepth coverage of this method ever written. It will be in the new Archives pag. If you still have any troubles afterwards then send Strike a personal email and we'll talk. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 ANSWER-- Someone-who-isn't-Strike has tried the Ritter reaction using both acetonitrile and cyanide as nitrile sources. Polymerization abounds. Protic destruction of the methylenedioxy ring structure of safrole abounds. ANSWER--P2P + MeNH2-HCL does not = meth-HCl. Some recipes use MeNH2-HCl, some use MeNH2. MeNH2 as a "freebase?" is a gas. It can't be 'extracted'. Free MeNH2 is solvated or bubbled into water or an alcohol in order to trap it. NaOH solutions release methylamine from its HCl. COMMENT--Hey! Excellent chem sources all! COMMENT--Folks, we need to help this guy with his corn crop! Try Scott Specialty gas. It's national and sends small, pure tanks of stuff. read the Thomas Register. does your corn absolutely have to have *liquid* ammonia? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 Hey Strike, I read somewhere that boiling ephedrine with HI under reflux is not required and is called the "Cold Process". Is this true or would skipping the reflux process screw things up? Strike has some "cold process" ephedrine reduction recipes. These, and

others, will be released next month in the Archives page. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 hey, this is zack. Im the one who sugested. the HBr with anhydrous methanol and then aquio amonia to generate methylamine hydrobromide. How would you go about generating methylamine gas from this. At first I thought could just add a base like NaOH to take the extra proton from the nitrogen but thenit occured to me that with all this -OH present you might do another SN2 reaction and just get methanol back. How would you generate methyl amine gas from methyl ammonium bromide. Id alos like to comliment you on our sight, you obviouly know quite a bit of chemistry. Hopefully ill get a chance to try out this reaction soon and Ill let you know how it works -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 Fume Hoods 101: A lot of reactions produce some nasty caustic vapors/gases that will ruin your day. The best way to neutralize these risks is to use a fume hood. What's that? You don't have access to a university fume hood? Well build one. Go down to Home Depot and buy some Plexiglass and construct a box. The top of the box should have a 5 inch (approx) diameter hole that can accommodate dryer tubing. This tubing is also available at Home Depot, as is the silicon glue/epoxy that you are going to use to connect everything. The front of the box extends down about half way to accommodate equipment. Now buy a bunch of plastic sheeting that is available as a tarp. Connect this to the front so that you have a full covering fume hood with. If you are stupid enough to want to play with anhydrous ammonia or cyanogen bromide, cut holes in the flap and attach some gloves. Use an exhaust fan (like the ones used in hydro gardens) and mount it in the hood leading to the vacuum tubing. Test the hood with incense. Also, set up incense around the room to test for any strange air currents before use. Be careful. -Zak -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 How would one make 3N HCl solution from 31.5% HCl Muriatic Acid bought at a pool supply place 3N HC1 is approximately l0% HCl. Work under that assumption. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97

Is there anything one would need to know or any adjustments one would need that is no bullshit!" ? if desired. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 Yes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 Whatever the reason, doesn't air get back in there anyway since foil doesn't really make an air tight seal? And if the answer is no which it probably is, could one use Ammonia gas to expel the air instead? I know it's easy to buy a tank of nitrogen but it's also easy to make Ammonia gas and I'm no chemist but I'm guessing it might be better since one always needs an excess amount of ammonia anyway. Nitrogen takes up the space above the reaction by displacing the atmosphere essentially by blowing it out. That nitrogen then hangs over the surface of the liquid like an invisible layer of fog. Believe it or not, that foil wrapped nitrogen will stay in there and will only leave by force of blowing in another gas. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 You said that when extracting, Ether and some always on top of the water and DCM and Hexane What about if one were to use Toluene? I know before but could one use it in the particular MD-P2P Yeah, it can be used. Strike wouldn't though. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 the first 5 to 10 ml of Isosafrole come over way before any MD-P2P does or do the both distill over at pretty much the same temp.? Is this you again, Zak? -------------------------------------------------------------------------other solvent (I forgot) are are always on the bottom. you've talked about Toluene case of extracting the

Date: 8/15/97 I've read STUFF and you're probably going this but what about if someone were to go chemical needed for an entire one of your the same chemical supply store where they have their lab? Would that be stupid? to get pissed at me for asking out and buy every single (legal) Top 10's all in one shot all at have the address where one might

Now when has Strike ever gotten mad at anyone here? That's a toss up question for Strike. Strike, personally, would do this because it is less of a hassle, but a friends house is always the safest. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 After having made Bromosafrole, would one mix the 35g of it with 50ml of Methanol or Ethanol depending on whether they used Methanol or Ethanol for the ammonia/alcohol solution? (Is this question a bit on the nit-picky side?) No question, aside of Zak's, is too nit-picky! One should use the same alcohol to dilute ammonia and the bromosafrole. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/15/97 Everybody: If you have'nt already seen the new Archives page then go over and take a look. It just got bigger. Strike would like to take this time to thank everyone for writing and contributing. A special thanks to all who have bought "Total Synthesis". As you watch this site grow in enormity and comprehensiveness, keep in mind that the whole site was created to serve you book owners. Strike well remembers sitting with Strike's underground books and articles trying to figure out what Strike was still doing wrong. Never again! For the first time in history you have a book backed-up by cradle-to-grave, hard-core chemical technical support! NOW YOU KNOW WHY THE WAR IS OVER!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/18/97 should not have too much water in it. CH3CN, and just about any other solvent Strike mentions, can be relieved of its 0-5% water by pouring it through sodium sulfate. Takes about 30 seconds. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/18/97

the first 5 to 10 ml of Isosafrole come over way before any MD-P2P does or do the both distill over at pretty much the same temp.? [NO, THIS IS NOT ZAK] answer please? OK, just this once Zak. In simple distillation the temperature difference between isosafrole and MD-P2P will be slight. Less than 5-l0 degree difference. Sometimes none. Proper distillation glassware will afford a noticeable degree of separation. If Strike were a drug maker (which of course Strike isnt), Strike would distill all the clear oil possible, then apply the sidium bisulfite to it. Crystalline ppt=ultrapure MDp2P. Remaining oil=ultrapure isosafrole. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/18/97 I if I may, I would like to ask EVERYONE to come together and find this product (or similiar product) called quicklay. I have called hatchery after hatchery and they dont know what the hell im talking about. No one is the chicken business has ever heard of this product. Matter of fact, they have never heard of ANY product used for this purpose. They keep telling me about lighting and correct diet made up of essential vitamin and minerals (ive checked the contents of these product and nothing). I dont know what to say. I guess im going to have to just kick my hens in the ass to get them to lay eggs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/18/97 Zack here- you can isomerize safrol to isosafrol by heating it without a solvent at 245 degrees celcius with a 1 to 15 molar ratio of KOH and CaO. these act catalytically and so the time you need will vary depending on how much safrol you use. my question is this. why bother isomerizing safrol? it seems simpler to use aq. HBr which will add across the double bond with markovnekov orentation and then displace the bromine with methylamine. if you isomerise the double bond you will get both isomers when the HBr adds "Zack": No one here said anything about brominating isosafrole. That is not recommended. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/18/97 RE: chemical purchasing. For those that aren't in the business one could write a book as what to do or not to do. Strike has laid it out fairly well, however not everyone IS as articulate as he or his friend ZAK. FYI, I have a BS in Organic chemistry and thought I new the way around purchasing chemicals. Well, surprise, the government is the master of all dirty, sneaky tricks (they use transponders, directional finders and military satellites to track chems) and I found myself in there custody for 9 years

(they have some delightful correctional institutions throughout the US). I met a great number of chemists, chem company operators and wanna-bees doing time. They all had something to say that I never new. Bottom line chemical purchasing is the weak point in these endeavors. It easily opens the door for the enforcement people to step in and end your freedom. I received a better education in prison and realized that if one wants to operate on a micro-scale, then its possible to purchase within the US and not get into trouble. If one wants to become the 'de facto' source, well you better move to a third world country and then good luck. If your going to purchase even the smallest of quantities it pays to create the image of a business that would use the chemicals that your ordering. Once the relationship is established, well you can order within reason. Image, credibility and knowing their jargon is EVERYTHING! Research and study go a long way in preventing the Feds or State from making you their guest. Granted, some operators will sell you anything that is not controlled, but those people are far and few between. Conspiracy to manufacture carries an incredible amount of time and its very easy for them to get a federal indictment. Especially after you have purchased some chemicals. This web-site is the best source of info outside of prison (before this site and deja news alt.drugs.chemistry, one would have to do federal time to get this data ..feel very fortunate all of you that don't know you may someday). If nothing else, the info on this site gives a person some variables to consider and a little education.. Use it while your free as it doesn't do any good once your down! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/18/97 Extraction process needed, benzaldehyde from bitter almond oil. Benzaldehyde: Distillation is best for bitter almond oil. In reality one could use the oil as is. That 5% mystery stuff is negligible. UH oh! It's a secret update for you Mr. Benzaldehyde person. Strike just got a new book titled "The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Essential Oils" by Julia Lawless. What an excellent book! Strike got it at Barnes and Noble for $15. Heres what it says about getting the nearly 95% benzaldehyde from both bitter almonds and sweet almonds: "EXTRACTION: Essential oil by steam distillation from the kernals. The nuts are first pressed and macerated in warm water for 12-24 hrs before the oil is extracted. It is during this time that the prussic acid (hydrogen cyanide) is formed; it is not present in the raw seed. Most commercial bitter almond oil is rectified to remove all prussic acid....Principal constituents of bitter almond oil: Benzaldehyde (95%), prussic acid (3%)." --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8/18/97 re: RE: chemical purchasing. Could you tell us HOW you got busted and with how much, etc.? What triggered the Feds to check you out? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/18/97 RE Busted; There are times when your local good guy supplier gets himself into trouble. Unbeknown to his regular customers, the DEA or State puts the operation under constant surveillance. Video cameras inside the store (along with recording equipment) and outside to tape your vehicle and you entering the store. Purchases of chems that are slightly watched can now be followed to a drop point (the lab, a friend's house, etc.) when they leave the store. Remember, the good guy supplier is cooperating and has told them what you've been buying. They'll also try to engage you in conversation, don't talk to them or if you do only the bear minimum responses ( I used to send a driver in a van with the company name on the side to pick up everything). Check this out, if the purchase is large enough a transponder is placed in the packing material (it always a good idea to re-pack everything, pour liquids into other containers or run powders through a sieve. I've even re-wrapped glassware). Yeah it's a big hassle, but getting arrested is a bigger one that's not reversible once it happens. Remember, your freedom is not replaceable and is worth more than anything!! Understand that certain chemical combinations purchased together may constitute a conspiracy. Not far fetched and very real! Call the US Attorney's office and ask them if ya doubt what I say! I met some really good guys in a place called La Tuna, it's a Fed FCI just outside El Paso Texas (all Fed joints are full of chemists and wanna-bees cooks). They didn't re-package their chemicals and in some of the packing material was a transponder that was sending signals to a military satellite. (I know that sounds bizarre, but it happens everyday and the only way you find out about it is to go to prison or get arrested). They followed them right to the lab in the middle of nowhere. I could go on indefinitely telling stories of how people got busted. The DEA has unlimited funds, plus they get people to work (rat) for them. In addition, between them and the FBI they love to set up sting operations whereas they'll sell you almost anything (not schedule I), talk to you like they're kool and very hepp to what's happening (they keeping a log of all this while it's happening) then when you think you've got the best chem supplier in town, especially cause you've established yourself as a business, bang they come in with search and arrest warrants cause the chems you've been buying make a conspiracy (hint, order from many many different suppliers, it's a hassle, but it works..) If you spend a few minutes reading about conspiracy laws, it would scare the hell out of you.

People usually don't believe this stuff unless they've done time. If I knew what I know now, I could have saved 9 years plus too much money and possessions. Strike, sorry for taking up so much space about this stuff, but a complete education on this subject is helpful and may save someone a trip to hell! There's much more to be said, but this will do for now . Just remember this, if you can show them (like right there at your supposed business or college student lab) what your doing with your chemical purchases, then you have nothing to worry about. Otherwise be careful and do your homework before you proceed. B.O.P.: Hey guy thanks for writing. Being from TX Strike has run across a few guys from LaTuna. What Strike knows of that place is that it's constant 100+ deg dry heat, sandstorms, military base and a few miles from the biggest artery of drug import known as Juarez. Strike cannot pretend to know the circumstances of your case but Strike wants to attempt to compare what you mention with what Strike knows. So everybody listen up. Federal cases, which a majority of drug busts these days fall under, are decided under a relatively new system using 'sentencing guidelines'. Most chemists busted are charged with conspiracy to manufacture and the length of their sentence is calculated by (1) the amount of product found, (2) the amount of precursor found, (3) if there are none of (1) and (2) then by the size or capacity of the lab, (4) any or all of the above. The most common sentencing is done using the amount of precursor (almost always an illegal or scheduled substance) that is found. The government has a chart that says how much drug can be made from a given amount of precursor and sentences you on that assumption. If you have 5 keys of safrole then that will get you such and such amount of time. As it stands right now, the most vicious sentencing is applied to meth. One is sentenced to more time with smaller product amounts than any other drug aside of cract. Believe it or not ecstasy and its precursors carry the least penalty of all. Nine years is a long-ass time. If telemetry andmilitary satellits were used on this guy then this guy was big time. Nine years is a lot more considerable than what an X maker would get unless his operation was huge. Strike will almost bet you that this guy was also a meth maker. No one doing small-scale production should expect such elaborate schemes. However, be aware they exist. Not only does Strike not advocate making drugs, but the only drug making Strike depicts here and in "Total Synthesis " is *small scale* production. Any sentenc time is abhorrant. And 9 years is just absolutely despicable.

Strike cannot convey to any of you how absolutely furious Strike is right now as Strike writes this. The damage and misery this war has done to the people of this nation by illegitimizing drugs is unspeakable. It's fucking criminal. You, Mr. B.O.P., can use Strike's site and your right to freedom of speech as vehicles to exact 9 years of cruel, punishing revenge. Feel free to add whatever you want to the database. Strike would also very much appreciate it if you would contact Strike via E-mail. We need to talk. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/19/97 See JOC 55, 2924, (1990) for an improved one pot synth of MD-P2P from safrol... say goodbye to the Dreaded Red Tar!! -Gink -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/19/97 Is it possible to make hydroiodic acid by bubbling H gas through a mixture of Iodine in some suitable solvent and the evaporating off the solvent? If so what solvents would work best? I2 and H2 will not readily combine. The I and the H are a lot happier bein stuck to their I and H partners. The theoretical thing one would like to see is to free radicalize the I2 & H2 into singlets. That's not easy to do *especially* with H2. Strike is not aware of any such procedures. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/19/97 RE: JOC 55, 2924, (1990) for an improved one pot synth of MD-P2P from safrol... Why doesn't someone with access to the Journals post this synthesis. Could help all of us. If the data was on-line it would be easy, but not everyone has the access. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/19/97 COMMENT--Strike has been busy lately as Strike hopes the new improvements can attest. Strike cannot always answer your questions in blue (the way Strike wants) because the way to do this is very complex. Bottom Line: Strike is a chemist. Strike has a very hard time with all this computer stuff. Just keeping it serviceable is occupying more time than Strike has (violin music in background). If there is anyone who is extremely familiar with Microsoft Front Page and would like to help construct a better, more Strike-friendly Database page, then please E-mail Strike at the address at the bottom of the page. --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8/19/97 RE: 'New' Method to MD-P2P: Palladium(II)acetate (0.2 mmol), benzoquinone (9 mmol) and 0.1 M Nitric acid (1 ml) and water/Acetonitrile (1:7, 50ml) are stirred and deoxygenated for 30 min. (N2 bubbling) [Pd(OAc)2 dissolves] then the olefin is added via syringe and stirred for 1 hr. Extract into ether.. workup as per usual.. ~83% yield. -Gink BTW: this is a variation on the 'Wacker' oxidation.. Oooops.. the amount of olefin used was 10 mmol.. scale up should keep ratios of reactants constant.. Good MD-P2P submission! Strike is still partial to the similar palladium used. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/20/97 Yo Strike, EXCELLENT report on Bromosafrole. FUCK YEAH! Man, did that answer questions. Do people realize this: X made from 100% OTC precursors?! The war is DEFINETELY over, Strike. Thank you.--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/21/97 RE: Chemical Purchasing RE: Busted Yes, this information IS helpful but please, some details. What triggered the Feds? Where did you go wrong? What combination of chemicals was it? You see, the reason I'm asking is because I feel I've done something carelessly stupid and now I'm one parnoid motherfucker. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/21/97 How would one go about getting methylamine gas from methylamine HBr? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/21/97 Look at this reduction of pseudoephedrine or ephedrine using hypophosphorus acid. No red Phophorus required, Basically,(pseudo)ephedrine and iodine crystals are put in a jar, and hypophosporus acid is poured on and the whole lot shaken and heated for 15min - 1hr. the lot is then filtered, an the meth extracted from the filtrate by toluene or similar, the hydrochloride or sulphate is then precipitated by the addition of either

HCl gas or concentrated sulphuric acid. noe equipment reqd, forensics report pople using beer bottles no doubt if you were to ask Kasperman aka Mr Air Pirate and he isn't either in jail or in bed with the dea, he would be happy to provide you with the neccesary precursors..... The BNE/CLE program, which gathers information on sales of chemicals in California exceeding one hundred dollars reported that in the two year period ending December 1996, the amount of H3O2P sales reported to them had tripled from $18,844 to $60,383. interesting...... <--- How viable is this procedure? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/21/97 Strike, very nice, and bold website, I plan on ordering your book! Question: Where (internet resources preferred) is a list of ALL the controlled precursors and thier amounts? I can't seem to find a complete, updated list. Thanks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/21/97 SASSAFRAS OIL: Is there any restrictions in purchasing sassafras oil. A vendor I contacted stated that the government has quantity and frequency restrictions on its purchase. If this is correct, do they have threshold amounts that require reporting once a certain limit is breeched. Any in the know, please share your knowledge - Thanks Our benefactor from the federal prison system who wrote above has told Strike that the current safe threshold for ordering sassafras oil 4kg or less per month. Good lord that's more than enough for anyone. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/21/97 To the Contributor of the Hypophosphorus reduction: Please contact me: egendorf@mail.sas.upenn.edu I would like to talk with you about this procedure. -Zak BTW, to answer the question about whether amphetamine can be synthesized from phenylalanine or tyrosine, check out Journal of Pharm. Sci 67, p1167 (1978) by D.B. Repke -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/22/97 RE: Dave Repke .. I met him a few years back... very interesting personality! =] Do a abstract search under his name at Beilstein via Netfire at http://www.beilstein.com/netfire/netfire.html for more references including his reference in J Med Chem regarding 4-OH-N,N-methylisopropyltryptamine (with subjective reports!![pub'd before

the analogue drugs act..try that today!]).... See Synthesis 723-726, July 1994 for a synth of MD-P2P from the MD-nitropropene with NaBH4 and H2O2.. I'm too tired to transcribe the details and it'll be good for all you chem hacks to prowl the stacks anyhow.. -Gink -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/22/97 you are cool -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/22/97 Here's to you and a lot of sleepless (hopefully) nights. Keep up the good work. -Shatter -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/22/97 re: Iodine Crystals we a friend used to purchase them OTC at the drug store. They can also be found at outdoor/survival stores as they are generally used for water purification. My friend however was using them to make a little NI3. :) re: procurement Place some of you might not have thought of as a potential market place are electronics supply houses. Here's the story. Personally, i have been into electronics as a profession for the past 14 or so years. At my last job I worked with high powered industrial lasers, in the 4-5kW range, CO2 based. The complete mixture was actually He, N2, CO2, H2: 65:24:10:1. In analizing and performing various engineering and R&D on the lasers, numerous amounts of spectrium analizers and test equipment was used. Some of these used various forms of gases, and chemicals. Things like freon11, 12, 13, etc., toulene, acetone, HCL(aq), Muric Acid, MEK, Anhydrous Isopropynol, zylene, Trichloroethane 1-1,1, Trichlorotrifloroethane, etc etc etc. Catching on yet? These chems are are sold to Electronics Manf. firms

without batting an eye -- in large quantities. The tolulene, acetone, alc & HCL were all in 5 gal. drums. the TrichloroTriFloroethane is a freon base used for cleaning the flux from PC Boards. Most all of the chems can be justified for cleaning PC boards. The funny part is: anyone can start a PC Board Ass'y business and can order these chems form places that sell Electronics parts, tools, soldier, etc. Theorhetically, you could walk in with a ratted t-shirt and jeans on, baseball hat backwards and walk in with the "dude, my boss sent me down to pick up some stuff." Pull out a shopping list and purchase away. Some good catalogs that cater to the electronics/engineering/R&D professions are: Alfa AEsar: research chemicals & accessories. GREAT CATALOG! Glassware, every chem under the sun. They even sell Uranium (92U236.03) for $115 per 25g (Cheeper than drugs!) 1-800-343-0660 Call for a catalog. Blackbox 1-800-552-6816 Digi-Key 1-800-344-4539 Allied Electronics 1-800-433-5700 Essentially all similar -- electronics supply houses. Parts, accssories, supplies, chems, etc. Specialized Products 1-800-866-5353 Techni-tool 1-610-941-2400 Both are mainly tool suppliers & supplies. There are chems for cleaning and such however. Mc Master (phone?) The catalogs of all catalogs. More pages than the bible, and printed on just as flimsy of paper. Each Vol. (4x yr.) is some 2500+ pages. It's almost as thick as it is wide. They have anything you need. Somebody above was talking about building a vapor hood? Hell, order the full deal from these guys with all the vapor eliminators, Hazmat safty equipment (resperators) with the FULL completement of specific filters for specific toxins. VERY handy. They should be in 800 directory. Anyway, soapbox open for next dweeb. :) --Shatter Great submission bra'! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/23/97 will this work? a 1gallon glass jug placed in ice bath w/ magnetic stirrer 1pint sassafras oil, 1pint glacial acetic acid, and 1quart 48% hydrobromic acid added. dry HCL gas is bubbled through untill color changes to burgundy (green-->blue-->purple-->burgandy) continue stirring 24hrs. dump the

mixture into bigger jug paint thinner (toluene) times. add water to jug backing soda to toluene soda

with 3,000g. crushed ice, let ice melt. add 1pint shake and put toluene in seprate jug repete 2 more with toluene shake toss water, add water with shake toss water continue adding water/backing

untill no more fizzing. let toluene sit in dark/warm/ventilated place untill toluene has evaporated. would that be bromosafrol? That's the proposed improved method introduced by Uncle Fester in his latest edition. It is similar to what we discuss here except he is proposing to dehydrate using HCl. Strike has no idea whether it will work or not. Yes, the end product here is proposed to be bromosafrole. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/23/97 re: bromination of aromatic ring try adding a little bit of ferric bromide to speed up the addition if that isn't available just put some clean iron pieces like scraps from small soft nails in the mix Question what reactions is gold trichloride used for? Rathead Gold trichloride? Does your head really look like a rat? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/23/97 RE: will this work? ---Maybe. Would this be bromosafrole?----Yes. Check out: http://www.intx.net/strike/bromosaf.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/23/97 RE: Sleepless Nights Amen... but that's the best time to get any work done.. ..but how to cover that funny rootbeer smell your labmates always comment on.. =] -Gink -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/23/97 Hey strike Grate fucken site!!! I live in Western Mass were no one has ever seen Meth can you belive that?? I did not ever know what it was till I moved to San Diago Ocean Beach to

be exact. I got my intro there. I think the best stuff I ever had was this white shit with red flakes in it, we called it specalled trout. Now I live back in mass were there is none :( Got to go Peace Two Paw btw Zak sent me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/24/97 Could anyone identify a strange peice of glassware? It is a graduated 500ml addition/sep funnel but is cylindrical in shape rather than tapered it has a hose port at the top for either a connection to a drying tube or possibly inert gas feed. At the bottom is a two port stop cock with a connection to another hose port and a drop tube that is enclosed in a sort of inverted glass cup about the size of a coffee mug Whatever it is used for it must be serious because the wall thickness is extra heavy. Any ideas as to use possible transport of evil atmospheric sensitive liquids???? This sounds like it is an addition funnel. A very valuable piece of glassware! It's used for addition of liquid stuff in a closed system. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/24/97 Can someone submit some information on the ephedra plant? I hear that it grows in Nevada but I have never seen it. Do plant shops have this varietie of plant available? How could one obtain the plant? What does it even look like? Also strike...I cant wait to read abou this "cold method" keep it up. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/24/97 It seems to me that someone who would have a great deal of trouble obtaining equipment should go with the HBr method. The one issue is the yield. What the fuck does 50% yield mean (I'm unejamaketed). If one were to use the ammounts described in your book using the HBr method with Methylamine to make MDMA, how many grams could one come out with? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/24/97 -Does anyone have any tips for crossing the boarder into Tiajuana to pick up some goodies? Is methylamine called methylamine in Spanish.

-does anyone have any knowlege of being able to obtain hexamine from a camping store? -Is Brazilian oil of sassafras in a pure enough form that one would not need to preform further purifying. Strike, in your book, I was surprised with how much of it is concerned with MDA. Although, I know that all one need is a little switch-a-roo in order to get MDMA. I just thought that MDA wasn't that common because it wasn't nearly as good as MDMA. It makes me wonder if it actually was maybe MDA that would enchant my soul at those all night parties. Isn't MDA supposed to be more of a hallucinagenic while MDMA is more mental and feeling? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/24/97 I've read the archives page about being able to use 48% HBr once again, but I am confused as to whether either of the two ways can be done without the need of a reflux or distillation apparatus? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/24/97 RE: MDA .. Definately two different (yet similiar) beasts.. MDA supposedly causes more 'damage' (lowered serotonin metabolite turnover..big deal!.. toxicity? who's to say right now) .. I really don't like MDA at all... the buzz feels way too wired and the next day the 'core sampled brain' feeling is at least twice as bad as MDMA.. not really excited to try it again.. -Gink -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/25/97 I have recently heard of a drug called ox blood, however I am unable to find out much more than its name!! Could someone please email me with details....... lsd27@illawarra.starway.net.au -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/25/97 both 1 hour reactions? Also, when you say one may apply a little heat to hasten the reaction -- how much? Is the first setting on a mag. stirrer/hot plate ok? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/25/97

So Strike (or Gink, or anybody), Are there no empathogenic qualities with MDA (as opposed to MDMA)?--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/25/97 So, Strike, what do you mean in your book when you say that MDA is better. How is it better? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/25/97 I was just wondering - when people speak of MDMA being good, or pure, is this attributed mainly to the skill of the chemist, or the amount that the product is cut? If the chmeistry and chemicals are perfect, would the resulting MDMA always be the same, with the same effects? If the answer is yes, how come there are so many good varieties of X with slightly different effects? Thanks - Eugene, OR -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/25/97 You wanna talk about good X, is anybody from Chicago or heard of "Bull's Eyes"? Those fuckers will knock your socks off! I seriously think that most X is MDMA. Or at least thats what I thought it was. One time I got some X that made me sort of feel like I was Xing in that I was having the same sort of dream like thoughts, but I was really sped up and didn't have the same lovey dovey feeling. I kept on trying to convince myself that it was the good shit but after it was over, I was just saying what the fuck was that. I think that was MDA but I'll never really know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/25/97 Yes, please. Let's talk about the effects of PURE MDA as opposed to MDMA.--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/25/97 Strike! We need your help. I'll admit that I've asked quite a few of the recent questions, but please do explain why you say in your book that MDA is superior and we should all accept this. If you meant from a sythesis standpoint, then I could agree for all but the HBr method. If you mean in terms of effect then I would wonder if you have tried MDMA or read Ectacy: the MDMA story ( both of which I would guess you had).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/25/97 I was just wondering which one of the following ephedra plants can be extracted to get pure ephedrine HCL. EPHEDRA NEVADENSIS or EPHEDRA VIRIDIS....Please advise. Oh, I have a supplier for the seeds! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/26/97 No, Mr. Srtike my head is not shaped like a rat it is a rat. Research And Test R.A.T. Head Thanks for the input on the addition funnel I figured as much. And the HAuCl4 was determined to be a special test reagent or for unusually tough reductions. Tell me why do you recommend the isomerization of the two allyl side chain rather thandoing an acid catalyzed hydrolysis followed by a careful oxidation of the beta alcohol? No HBr needed, no high temp iso. and sterio specific control? Granted it is one extra step but the reactions are all ready reactions at room temp. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/26/97 one get an inexpensive can of nitrogen? Isn't it possible to use another inert gas like those that are used for cleaning/dusting computer equipment? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/26/97 i have been posting here but just recently received your book. it is THE SHIT! perhaps you could give some tips as to how one might combine the oxidation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/26/97 does the jones reagent need to be stored in the refridgorator or does it just need to be prepared with cold ingredients? also, if one has no access to sodium sulfate but only Na2SO4.10H2O (that is hydrated sodium sulfate, then can that stuff be dried in an oven and then used for drying of the solution or must one resort to another drying agent. if so then what are with the jones reagent. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 it an error? also, does anyone know the normal (at 760mm/Hg) boiling

point for MDP-2-P. Shulgin notes in Pihkal that he distills it "at 2.0mm/108-112 C, or at about 160 C at the water pump." does this mean MDP-2-P can be distilled without vacuum? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Not sure if this is applicable but, anyone looking for 35% H2O2 might try browsing some of the online hydroponics suppliers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Comment on vacuum regarding to MDP-2-P: Shulgin doesn't mean that at 160C there isn't any vacuum aplied. What he means by this is that he uses the water pomp to aply the vacuum, which is less powerfull then a vacuum machine. So the destillation temperature is higher. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Why can't ACETONE be use as a solvent for extracting product oil? Would it fuck everything up? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Check out all the chemicals I saw at a pool supply store. Most of them are made by hth. sodium bromide, calcium hypochloride, sodium bisulfate, calcium chloride, sodium carbonate, sodium bicarbonate, cyanuric acid (uses?), hydrochloric acid (muriatic acid) To the person looking for nitrogen: You should be able to buy a small, used, refillable tank at a welding supply place and have it filled with nitrogen at an air conditioning supply place. (They use nitrogen to flush out A/C systems)--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 I would like to reply on another method for the synthesis of MDP-2-P. First I would hydrogenate the propene group which gives a 2-propanol group and then I would use Sodiumdichromate in aqueous actetic acid to convert this group into 2-propanone. It would go like this: OH | O _ C-C=C O _ C-C-C / \/ \/ H+ / \/ \/ C | | + H2O ==========> C | | \ /\ _ / Catalyst \ /\ _ / O O

OH O | || O _ C-C=C O _ C-C-C / \/ \/ Na2Cr2O7 / \/ \/ C | | =============> C | | \ /\ _ / H2O, CH3CO2H \ /\ _ / O O Some problems that might occur (I haven't tried this (yet) it's just possible). -The temp for hydrogenation might be very high, so high that the safrole might be destroyed. -Any comments on how to purify the Alcohol from the Safrole and the Ketone from the alcohol ? Safrole boils at 233C-234C. -Does anyone know the boiling temp of the alcohol or of the ketone (MDP-2-P). I hope to get some answers soon......... CYA (-Logical-).... -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Somehow the first time I send this it didn't got there very well. I would like to reply on another method for the synthesis of MDP-2-P. First I would hydrogenate the propene group which gives a 2-propanol group and then I would use Sodiumdichromate in aqueous actetic acid to convert this group into 2-propanone. It would go like this: First you heat (250C or so, who knows) safrole in an aqueos solution of HCl. This will probably give 1-(3,4-metylenedioxyphenyl)-2-propanol. Then you convert this alcohol under influence of Na2Cr2O7 in an aqueos acetic acid solution into the ketone. Some problems that might occur (I haven't tried this it's just possible). -The temp for hydrogenation might be very high, so high that the safrole might be destroyed. -Any comments on how to purify the Alcohol from the Safrole and the Ketone from the alcohol ? Safrole boils at 233C-234C. -Does anyone know the boiling point of the alcohol or of the ketone (MDP-2-P). I hope to get some comments soon......... CYA (-Logical-).... -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Question: A while back (nobody@huge.cajones.com 1997/02/08) posted to a.d.c a question: "Has anyone had any luck with Eleusis' methylamine recipe involving hydrolysis of hexamine?" and went on to describe bogus results. Has anyone verified that E's hexamine hydrolysis method is indeed just plain wrong? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97

I don't know where Stike is, but I'm affraid I have to add to the list of unanswered questions. These questions are all concerned with the creation crysalized MDMA product can one expect? Some times it is mentioned that the ether must be anhydrous, can the ether in all of the possibly used steps be anhydrous? Strike, I really wish you had described all liquid ammounts in volume instead of mass. I do not have a scale with a large capacity and I do not know what or how to find the densities for such things as safrole or 40% formaldehyde. This causes not only a great problem if one were to be in the process of creation, but also in knowing how much one needed to order. Can you tell me how to solve my problem or at least give me the density of safrole? Is "3N HCl" a typo for "3M HCl", otherwise what is 3N? I know I'm a pain in the ass ( I asked some of the other questions too ) but I obviously bought your book and this little rave rat needs some help. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Is there any more convenient ways to get nitrogen (electronics dusters)? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Is store bought acetone the right kind and if so what is a good store? What % is muriatic acid? What % is the sodium carbonate sold at the pool supplier? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Whenever one refluxes, should they always have an aspirator/vacume attached? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 RE: Safrole Density : Safrole has a density of 1.09 g/ml -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97

I asked that question about ACETONE a while back. (Scroll up to 8/15/97) re: MURIATIC ACID, see 8/9/97 (come on, dude.) The "hth Calcium PLUS Adjuster" is 98% sodium carbonate. $7.49 for 2300g. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 STRIKE'S TWO CENTS: Strike has had the purest imaginable MDMA and MDA. There is no comparison. MDA rules. It lasts twice as long as MDMA with the experience being more intense, powerful and wonderful. Let's say there was this maker who was not Strike that supplied two metropolitan areas with MDA. Everyone loved it. When the maker who was not Strike switched to MDMA (but didn't tell anyone) everyone bitched! "Hey! This stuff is too weak!"...."Hey! This stuff doesn't last long!" [All together--] "We've been burned!!" What can Strike say? The people know what they like and that's what they got from then on:MDA. Nothin' wrong with MDMA though. It is deemed more 'pleasant', in Strike's opinion, simply by virtue of it being less strong than MDA. Let's also not forget that MDA is a hell-of-a-less resstrictive product to make than MDMA.. It is also interesting to Strike that people who regularly (or even intermittantly) usethat cranial onslaught known as acid (LSD), complain that MDA is too 'harsh'. What gives? ANSWER--Just because Strike added a whole bunch of bromosafrole info to protocol. This new info wasprovided for you book owners to supplement the stuff you already have. In answer to the question about the absolute yields one can expect from the intention was for l0% to be an expected lowest yield if one were to use 48% aqHBr and ammonium hydroxide, and 50% yield to be an approximate outcome using conc. HBr in acetic acid and methylamine. Yields of greater than 50% can most certainly be achieved using this method. However, Strike does not like to exaggerate yields unless Strike is confident of their consistancy in occurring. ANSWER: Mr. Rathead is, Strike believes, suggesting oxidation of MD-P2Pol to a MD-P2P as a better route than isosafrole or HBr methods. Maybe so. Maybe so. As Strike says at the end of the bromosafrole section of Archives; we will explore all the possibilities of MD-P2Pol at a later

date. ANSWER: More on MDA vs. MDMA: Strike is aware that a lot of *MDMA* street samples are spiked (usually with heroin, mescaline or PCP). Strike doesn't know why people do that. Stretching out the product? Increasing an inferior potency? In the book Strike tried mixing up the primary examples for use in each recipe. However, you will notice that each recipe contains the complimentary amounts for MDA, MDMA, amphetamine and methamphetamine. Strike personally favors MDA but the recipes are neutral in this matter. As for the possible purity outcomes for each of these compounds; Each recipe ends with an HCl extraction. This assures that only aminated (ie final product) species makes it thru to the final round. All methods done in this mashion should yield pure product. ANSWER -- There's no need to substitute nitrogen. It's purchased at the specialy gas store and costs $5 a fill. OK! OK! If necessary, one could substitute He or Ar. But they are more expensive. ANSWER --Our First Annual Hive Award (trophy not included) goes to the young person who suggested/wondered if the mercuric acetate purification of safrole could be combined with the procedure using the same Hg compound to make MD-P2P. Excellent deduction! Strike had not thought of that! You know what? Strike bets it could. Let's start working on the parameters for such a reaction. Incidentally, Strike is currently translating some old German articles where mercuric acetate was used to make high yield isosafrole out of safrole. Man that shit does everything. ANSWER -- Methylamine in espanol is called "chupacabra". When you approach the purchasing desk you need to say "Un chupacabra por favor." . . -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Of course it's applicable. Could you post some URL's for companies you can mail order 35% H2O2 from? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Stop fuckin' around! I know what chupacabra means. Alright, alright. I'll make it myself. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Hey Strike, this page is getting pretty long (you're gonna be world [in]famous soon!). Did you find somebody to help you yet? Why don't you put

a frame on top with some buttons to click you to the top and bottom or something. Hey Gink, thanks for the http://www.zosos.com/ , but does anybody know of any more? These people don't have Acetonitrile.--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 Excuse me...uh...Strike?...I...uh...think...I...uh...uhmmm...........i think I'm falling in love with you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 How long does it usually take the book to come? I've been waiting two weeks. Should I worry? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/27/97 What would be the best Thermometer for one to purchase for all procedures involved in most synthesis methods? We wish someone would come up with a DETAILED list of all equipment envolved so they could go shopping without missing anything or buying the wrong items! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/28/97 Hey Strike! I know that MDA is stronger, but what I really care about is the effect. Is it an empathogen? Does it make you want to grab your best friend or girlfriend and give them a hug for being the wonderful person that they are? Or is it more of a speedy hallucinogenic? Also, did that person increase the dosage for MDMA to 200 mg? I doubt that those people would have complained if that were the case. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/28/97 Hey, I because I fell answer wonder wrote that last comment. The reason I want to know so bad is in love with this drug- I could go off on how I think it is the for humanity. But, the only problem is that now you are making me whether it was MDMA all that time or not.

appreciate the help. ThanX --Hocus Pocus --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8/28/97 ANSWER --Once made (with cold ingredients) the Jones Reagent can be stored wherever. Strike has never heard of sodium sulfate decahydrate, unless that's the way it always comes and Strike never bothered to look. You can fire sodium sulfate in a 400F oven for a couple of hours. ANSWER -- Sodium bisufite is correct. See the nice contributor for 'water pump' claaarification, two lines down. COMMENT -- Sodium bromide at a pool chem store?! Cool! ANSWER -- Strike has not tried Eleusis' hexamine recipe. It would be nice if it worked. The references are legitimate and Zwitterion's application has enough recognizable characteristics (at least to Strike) that leads Strike to believe its legitimacy. ANSWER -- Strike did not elaborate the molar, weight, volume or % for each compound in the book. Strike is sorry but it would have been ridiculously prohibitive to have done so. Some compounds are by weight, some volume. Some both. You must excercise the brain God gave you to calculate or estimate the desired parameter. 3N is correct in the case of Hc1 3N=3M. You are not a pain in the ass by any means. This is the service I promised you. But you must try to deduce some of the simpler things on your own. You learn more that way. ANSWER -- There ain't nothin' more convenient than getting N2 from the gas tank man. OK everybody! Stop pickin' on Strike! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/28/97 Strike are you familiar with the reaction of phenyl magnesium bromide in anhd. ether and ethylene oxide following the usual H3O workup it yields phenylacetaldehyde in quantitative amounts. Just an interesting little rearangement to consider. Rathead -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/28/97 Hey gang, I have another supplier on the web to give a shot at...This place has EVERYTHING! try: www.vwrsp.com p.s. I think its time to start organizing this message board! someone help out! hey STRIKE, why is the word of god not posted in blue text anymore?! Mr. Xerox --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8/28/97 For fuckin' shit's sake will someone answer my question who knows for sure: Is MDA an empathogen? Does it make the user feel closer and more in touch with their friends? Does it make hugs and kisses one of the best feelings in the world? Or is this effect exclusively attributed to MDMA? The only description I can find of an MDA experience talks about hallucinations of smoke rings and to me, this doesn't make it sound very much like the empathogen that I have experienced. But, one never know for sure until someone MOTHER FUCKING helps a brotha out. Please, someone give a short yet descriptive explanation of how the two drugs differ in their feeling. I really want to know this my fellow naughty people.--Hocus Pocus -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/28/97 ANSWER -- Whoa! Strike definitely does not like to hear ordering problems. If Strike received a payment then the book was definitely sent. Like Strike said on the ordering page: "all names and addresses destroyed on shipment". But email me your name or address as I probably have enough locality recollection to confirm for you. Maybe the UPS strike had something to do with it although Strike doesn't use UPS. By the way, Germany, Sweden and Oklahoma currently lead the world in book ordering amounts. ANSWER -- Thanks Bra'! Strike loves you, too. COMMENT -- Strike has checked out www.zosos.com which is an online catalogue for "Oregon Scientific". It looks pretty good. Strike especially likes the fact that the online catalogue does *not* sell any scheduled or heavily watchedchemicals. This lessens the chance that they could be involved in any entrapment schemes. The prices for large amounts are reasonable. However, Strike noticed a listing for essential oils but didn't peruse long enough to find it. Sellling these oils with chemicals is a conspiracy waiting to happen. All in all Strike would order from this place. But if you repeat this to anyone Strike will just deny it. ANSWE -- So you're a one thermometer kind of guy. OK, a 0-400C should do the trick. Any mailorder catalogue place should sell it for $10-$20. DELAYED ANSWER -- All reactions use anhydrous either. All extractions use whatever. Again, 1 liter of ether (or some other solvent) with 5% or less water can be poured thru 100g sodium sulfate to rid it of water. Takes about 30 seconds. ANSWER -- MDA is definitely empathogenic. But it is a reflector of your general mood at the time and is different for different people. It may be that MDMA is best for one person and not for another. No one is forcing anyone to change their preferences. Strike has never sought to gain an enamored state using MDA or MDMA. Strike uses them to have fun. Lots of fun.

ANSWER -- No. No one has offered to help spruce up the site yet. COMMENT -- All you nuts quit multiple submitting your comments. After you hit the submit button once (whether you get an error message or nothing) it is more likely than not that your comment was entered. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/28/97 Yes, PLEASE! Someone answer Hocus Pocus's question! That is my question exactly! Preferably someone who has tried the both of them after having made it themselves using familiar methods. Man, if it turns out MDA doesn't do what I hope it does I'm blowing my whole fuckin' lab up. No, scratch that. If it turns out MDA doesn't do what I hope it does let's start talking about EASY ways for making methylamine.--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/28/97 What size gelcaps would one use for a satifactory yet not "horse pilly" looking dose? (00,0,1,2,etc.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/28/97 Yo, Mr Xerox, thank you. http://www.vwrsp.com/ DOES have everything! And much cheaper than http://www.zosos.com/ and http://www.advance-scientific.com/ (another one for the list by the way)--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/28/97 I have to make sure. When you say empathogenic, you mean that getting your hands rubbed or a massage feels nothing less than increadible and that people (nice people at least) have a increased tendancy to feel very open and talkative and loving. Please confirm if this is what you are saying, Strike. Just an idea-- someone should infiltrate the water purification plants and spike 'em with thousands of pounds of X. My reasons for this thought will become more clear once I publish on this data base ( If that's alright with you Strike) my feelings of how if everyone tried X (If we're talking about the same X) just once, it would change the world for the better. And preferably that X would be "bull's eyes"- god I miss those! -- Hocus Pocus with love --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 8/28/97 Acutally, some people are selfish assholes even when they are Xing-- this is amazing to me. But, there's always hope.-- Hocus Pocus -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 my lord..how the busy little bees do work...:0 nice to see the *large* contribution to this page, and I WILL ADD that *very* soon Strike will be contacted about a site overhall, possibly with a BBS set up for the comments and other goodies...do keep in touch with this site. :) -Lettuce Bee -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Please Oh god please, someone explain how to extract the ephedrine alkaloids from ephedra sinica (Ma-Huang). Other varieties may contain the ephedrine alkaloids but this varietie by far is the most common for it. Look, ephedrine and psuedoephedrine are finished!!!! I love to lift weights but hate the gunesfins (sp) stuff. I have read all kind of way to extract stuff from cacti but nothing regarding this plant. I dont care about all that other stuff just this. strike....your a genious!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Yo, supa dupa nigga on the spot. Since strike says that MDA is good I think I might take his word for it. So I think Hocus Pocus needs to shut the Fuck up and stop whining. What I want to know is how pills might be pressed without using gell caps? How would one go about making them into there own little tablets? ----Also just a note, a little birdie told me that Brazilian oil of Sassy ass just went elite. Now you need a fricken permit just to get. So I was wondering if after purifying the american sassyfrass , the bee pollen would be as good in the end -----$$$$Mercury$$$$ -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 hmmmm. . . . I was surfing the web and my CRC for information reguarding Safrole and Isosafrole. I don't know if this is known or not but, "Isosafrole occurs naturally as a principal component of the essential oil

star anise" (see http://www.speclab.com/compound/c120581.htm) So,. . . what about using this oil as a starting point instead of Sassafras Oil? It could save a lot of time. Also, does anyone know what percentage is in Star Anise oil? :-) rebel with a cause -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Hi, The comment I sent on making MDP-2-P said to do a HYDROGENATION but it should read HYDRATION (e.g. addotion of water..DUH!). The guy who keeps asking about EPHIDRINE: A companie in the states sells EPHIDRINE PILLS containing 60 MG a pill. The costs are 29.95$ per 1000, this makes 60 grams of EPHIDRINE. The only thing you will have to figure out is how to get it out of the pill. The name of the companie is D&E and the number is: 1-800-221-1833 or 201-838-8300 (with keycode 0487 whatever that means.) What I don't understand is the fuss about ephidrine here in Holland it is legal to sell or to have. They sell it here in smart shops. To the guy who want's to make own pills: You will have to buy a TABLET COMPRESSOR and some STUFF like SORBITOL, SACHAROSE to keep the PILL together. So you will have to buy such a machine at a companie who sells these. Then you must find an excuse why you want it, YOU COULD SAY YOU MAKE HERB-, SUGAR- OR SODIUM CARBONATE PILLS. Find out yourself. CYA (-LOGICAL-)............. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Guyere watched? Oh, and another thing. What's the % yield?--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Come on people! MDA was the original "LOVE DRUG" of the '60s. This was BEFORE mdma's time. Of course it's empathetic. Not only that, but it lasts longer, and has more of a psychedelic feel. Paiselys for all! I'm with Strike on this one. To the fella wanting to extract stuff out of ephedra. Why not use the herb as is. It contains no guafinesin. But if you must get the pseudoephedrines and ephedrines out of the plant, then no that the base forms (which of course is what is in there) is soulable in alcohol, chloroform and a few other solvents. Doesn't anyone around here own a Merck Index? Sheesh!

Keep it going Strike! Da Dude! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Look muthafucka! I don't think someone is whining when they are about to spend almost a thousand dollars and they want to make sure that its not all just gonna be a fuckin' big waste!-- Hocus Pocus -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 What is an average dose of MDA? What is a strong dose of MDA? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Lets act a little more mature and not turn this into a swearing argument posting board please! We are all here to help each other not fight. Mr. Xerox -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Is a total immersion thermometer acceptable for the creation of isosafrole Could you please tell me what the estimated gram yield would be for top ten -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Sub : Psudeoephdrine HCl Dear Sir, We thankfully acknowledge your E-Mail dt.18.8.97 on enquiring the above product. Before giving any affirmative answer would you be kind enough to give your company profile for our reference. Looking forward to hear from you. <--- what would be a good lie to tell these people in India about why I want psuedephedrine? All I want if for is to make some dietary supplement? They want a company profile....what should I tell them?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Could someone please explain HOW one would go about extracting the ephedrine alkaloids from ephedra sinica? I understand that the alkaloids are soluable in alcohol, chloroform etc. Lets start at this point: Lets say a person had a bunch of this plant growing. This person picked all they could and dried it then crushed it to a fine powder. Then they put all this crushed dried ephedra plant in a big round carboy, then what? Please, Im sure this is VERY easy for some of you. But I have no experience in this field. I just love how people can make their own medicines from natural sources. This is just for informational purposes only.....thanks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/29/97 Could someone give the the low down on ordering from VWR or other mail ordering suppliers. Is it necessary to make up a fake business and a fake business title? Is there anything else that one must be prepared to answer? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/30/97 Here, here, Mr. Xerox. I'm with you.--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/30/97 Hey gang, could someone please e-mail me with a good cheap source of Ocotea symbarum (Brazilian sassafras) I am looking for decent sized volumes not this 10ml crap...I have a lot of clients that request this during their aromatherapy sessions...Thanks in advance... Mr. Xerox -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/30/97 Oops! thats: mrxerox@wildstar.net for those who have not guessed by now! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/30/97 Re: Chems-> VWR (Van Water Rogers) cooperates extensively with the DEA and usually doesn't sell directly to individuals. You had best prepare a

bullet-proof front company. They have many multi-million dollar contracts with State and Federal governments.... Plus they've been known to send their sales-people to locations that purchase their products. Normal big business sales practice, so if ya order from them, you had better have something that looks like a company. They'll give ya up in a hot flash if you're NOT 100%....Try smaller distributors and forget about good prices. No one that IS NOT a 100% legitimate company *SHOULD EVEN* think about shopping price. WE really don't have that many choices. If you were operating as quasi-legal manufacturing company, you could go out for price quotes, have sales-people by to discuss your needs, etc., etc. Since this IS NOT the case in the majority of people that view this site, wake up, be happy to get anything without getting busted. FYI, the chemical industry is going to get tightened down by the DEA again by the 1st of the year. This will not affect regular business, only US! Mr. Ephedrine: The company in India (as all company throughout the world) are aware of Americans need for ephedrine based products, for what ever reason. Again, you'll need a professional to develop a profile which is basically your corporate structure, philosophy, clients & trade references, etc. What they're doing, is politely telling you, if you are not a legit company, we are not going to do business with you. At least they're not setting you up for a bust.... <*>BOP ('The School of HARD Knocks')---Tom PS - Most small supply companies want to do business with ya, just look professional (it works). Check out what real company's act like and then try to replicate their methodologies.. Answering services, professional looking purchase orders and quotes requests, credit cards & bank drafts for payment, even a real location to name just a few things. I know this is un-cool, structured and a BIG hassle, but so is getting busted--- :o( We all have better things 'TO DO' than TIME!! Once in a while, you'll find a small supply house that doesn't care as long as you purchase small quantities. If you try to import chems, you have another layer of bureaucratic BS to deal with... When all else fails, go south of the border, ole Mexico.. It's getting tighter, but still works! GOOD LUCK....Remember-there job is to ruin our fun, take our assets and LOCK US UP! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/30/97 comments fucko. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/30/97 comments

COMMENT: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Xerox, 7432, everybody! Stop what you're doing and listen to Strike. There's something Strike has been putting off saying both here and in the book because if Strike is wrong on this one then Strike is doing an injustice to the company but Strike has to say it now that its spectre has shown itself. What Strike is talking about is "Advance Scientific". When Strike first started out in this crazy business Strike did a lot of research and calling around to get a feel for what to expect from chem merchants. Some places wouldn't sell to Strike. Period. Some wouldn't sell Strike certain chemicals. Some required a lot of the legendary Strike chem savvy bullshit to put 'em at ease. Advance Scientific was very different. In every yellow pages of every city this place is listed. Even in the tiniest towns with no more than l0 pages to the phone book this place is listed. Often this place is the only listing in the chemicals section. When compared with older listings this place has changed locations 3 times over the past 5 years. All in Florida. So the ad says they sell things that Strike wants, in the amounts Strike wants, and that they cater to personal chemists (like Strike). So Strike calls them. Keep this in mind; Strike has worked in a lot of organice labs and is very used to dealing with chem companies and with ordering chemicals. This guy answers the phone and it is immediately obvious that he doesn't know crap about chemicals. Strike was so suspicious of this company before Strike called that Strike decided to test them from the start by ordering two chemicals that no one would even consider selling to an individual. Strike: "Do you have methylamine and phenylacetone?" Guy: "Oh, sure. How much do you need?" [He says this immediately without checking whether he does or not.] Strike: "Oh, 2 kilos each." Guy: "No problem. What is your name and address?" Strike: "Wait. Who is the maker of these chemicals?" [You know, Aldrich, EM, etc.] Guy: "It's our own brand." Strike: "Oh, so ya'll are the manufacturers?" Guy: "No, it's our brand though." Strike: "OK. So who is the original manufacturer?" Guy: "I can't recall." (Phone rings in background.) Guy: "hold on a moment while I answer the other phone." [The other phone?! What the hell is the most heavily advertised chem store in the nation doing with only one man operating 2 phones?!] [Strike is put on hold forever. Strike hangs up.]

Man, this place (Advance Scientific) reeks of a national front operation. Every part of Strike (including Strike's brain) tells Strike that this place is dirty. You have been warned. Of course VWR has everything! They are a mega science house. They also do *not* sell to individuals. This may have changed though or can be avoided by shopping online. Strike is totally unfamiliar with online shopping! ANSWER -- Strike is including an ephedra extraction post (forwarded from Zak) on Sunday in the "Stuff" page for you to read. ANSWER -- All sassafras oils are not restricted. Strike has recently been informed that there is a 4kg limit without suspicion. Strike sees Brazilean and other sassafras oils on grocery shelves everyday. Strike has also had 3 major sassafras oil sources analyzed on a 4 tesla mass spec. All are loaded with safrole (including American sassafras.) ANSWER -- No. The compound in star anise oil is safrole in about 20-30%. ANSWER -- All shrimp recipes in "Total Synthesis" are delicious. The gruyere one was created especially for a dinner honoring former Texas Governor Ann Richards. ANSWER -- A versatile lab can go both ways. The only change is a single chemical. Chill! ANSWER -- 95% NaBH3CN? Strike has never known this stuff to come less than 99%. But shit yes 95% is good. Ave. dose MDA.HCl is l00mg. ANSWER -- Just about any thermometer is good. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/30/97 comments Would using sodium carbonate, calcium chloride, and muratic acid all from a pool supplier and acetone from a hardware store hurt the yields for top ten -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/30/97 comments Well if its so much trouble ordering chemicals, then must someone have such a tediously crafted front when walking into one of those retail chem./equipment supply places? My idea was to tell the people at the store

that I couldn't go to college right away because of my injury ( I was in a an accident and I am wearing some braces and such) that I am doing a project which my teacher at college is leading me in and that I needed the chemicals because I am doing a series of experiments to better understand mass spectroscopy. Does this sound ok Strike? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/31/97 comments So what are the details of the hypophosporus acid method of making Meth? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 8/31/97 comments Would difluoroethane be an acceptable substatute for nitrogen gas in top 10 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/1/97 comments Where could I find out the densities for such substances as 88% formic acid? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/1/97 comments Strike, where is that ephedra extraction procedure at? ephedra nevadines, ephedra sinica (the best) and ephedra Q something are the best and because they contain the most ephedrine alkaloids. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments He Strike I already sent two e-mails to you could you sent some back to me ? Your E-mail still is strike_knows_x@msn.com isn't it ?

(-LOGICAL-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments for good size quantities of sassafras oil do web search for Attar herbs and spices 1-800-541-6900 good stuff good prices -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments Another great place is www.easynet.on.ca/~stewarts/oil. htm. They actually sell 100mL bottles so no more of the 10/ 15mL bull shit and they're only $13 US/100mL. Plus, for those who are especially paranoid, they are in Canada. Good luck to eveyone one their quests and oh, by the way, THE WAR IS MOTHER FUCKING OVER! -Hocus Pocus -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments Another great place is www.easynet.on.ca/~stewarts/oil. htm. They say that their oils are 100% pure and unadulterated. They actually sell 100mL bottles so no more of the 10/ 15mL bull shit and they're only $13 US/100mL. Plus, for those who are especially paranoid, they are in Canada. Good luck to eveyone one their quests and oh, by the way, THE WAR IS MOTHER FUCKING OVER! -Hocus Pocus -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments This page too long, ought to break up this dialog, indexed by month. Can one subistute DCM in place of ether/ethanol in crystallization (pg 127 of book)? --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 9/2/97 comments Hey Strike, could ya tell me what's the deal with sodium cyanoborohydride. There is one place that I found that will order it for me- cuz no place carries it, and when the guy gets back on the phone from looking it up he says "that's some nasty stuff you want". Could you tell me what some uses for it might be so that I don't act like a blundering idiot if I am asked any questions when I go in to get it (I'm using the college student image). Also, if this nasty stuff then what are the special safety precautions I need to take when dealing with this stuff so that I get to keep all of my body parts? Now its time to get mushy. I just want to say thanks Strike, cuz if it weren't for you, your book, and this database, I would never be able to even really consider my aspirations of wonder. Sing along all you evil chemists!- cuz you are the wind beneath my wings.-H.P. Sorry about sending that last message twice, but I wanted to add a sentance. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments Let's talk about Speed.... Before we begin, let me state that this is for entertainment only. Don't do anything to break the laws of the US of A. Without laws, there is anarchy. And when there's anarchy, there's chaos. Chaos leads to people thinking for themselves...I am not a chemist, I only play one on TV. I don't know if this works, if it is dangerous, or if it answers the questions of the universal. Don't try this at home. Fester claims that 150g of ephedrine + 340ml HI + 40g of red phos refluxed for 24 hours gives you that lovin feeling. Let's CRANK up that recipe. 160g of ephedrine + 450ml of HI (57%) + 25g of red phos should be refluxed for at least 32 hours. If you can wait longer and snort some of the residue on the carpet, it would be better to reflux longer. The ratio of Iodine to Ephedrine to red phos is: 2 - 1 - 0.5. The red phos in the ratio is the one used for creating the Hydriodic Acid (HI). For example 320g of Iodine -> 160g Ephedrine -> 80g red phosphorus. The other red phosphorus used in the reaction acts as a catalyst or a recycler of the HI. The red phosphorus that is used a catalyst can be re-used many times. Just filter it at the end. One other little tip: Get a jug and cut the bottom off of it. Attach some tubing to it and feed it into the drain. Run the water and position the cut off portion of the jug over the top of condensor. This will vent any fumes into the sewer pipes. Also use it when you are forming the salt. Have a fun time... --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 9/2/97 comments When you make the 57% HI using the 2:1:0.5 ratio, don't you need water? How much water do you need if you did the 450ml, 160g P-Fed, 25g red phosphourus? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments Speed Time: Red Phos: Buy some flares some Pep Boy, grind up the caps, boil in water, filter and keep the goo Iodine: Buy a bunch of bottles from the local drug store. Either heat it in a double boiler type set up with a plate on top to catch the vapors. Kinda like cooking K. Or someone said that you could dry it with a little sulfuric acid. Go down to Sears and buy some drain cleaner. Ephedrine: Sun Labs 1-800-999-9999 Snort a line, don't do time -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments 1st - I don't know if this works. Someone give it a whirl and let us all know if we can get crazy high from a trip to the hardware store: Mix 75g of Iodine, 15g of red phosphorus, and 10-50g of Ephedrine in a rock tumbler for 24 hours to mix them intimately (paraphrase Tom Kasper posting anonymously). Grab a roll of aluminum foil and wash it with NaCO that you buy at the pool supply store. Cut them up and bake them in the oven for a while. Measure out 10grams In a glass jug put 5L of phosphoric acid and connect with a hose epoxied in place 2-3" from the bottom of the jug with silicon epoxy. Buy a champagne bottle and drink it on down. Cook it in the oven for 1 hour or so until it is dry. Put the Iodine, red phos, ephedrine, and aluminum into the champagne bottle. The tube from the jug with the phosphoric acid led into the bottom of the champagne bottle. The champagne bottle has another hose leading to a jar of salt water. Or, you could lead into a jar of activated charcoal like that anon guy in Santa Barbara suggested. Begin by lifting up the jug with the phosphoric acid and cover all of the contents in the champagne bottle. SOme kid who never took a science course in his life, said that the temp should stay below 80C. It would take 2-4 days doing this. Who the fuck wants to wait 2-4 days? That anon guy said that his reaction only took 3 hours. I like thos numbers! Try

using his idea listed in the the a.d.c/r.d.c. Only time will tell if his 3 hour deal applies to this reaction or you should do it over a long-ass period of time. Good luck. And always remember that famous saying "You know it is time to sleep when you are nodding off into glassware..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments Hydriodic Acid from DMSO? Ok, 100ml of chilled DMSO + 7.8ml H2SO4 + 43 NaI will give you some HI and save you from having to boil flare caps or dry Iodine bottles or scrape fucking safety matches. Now, what I don't know (one of many many things) is what percentage HI is produced? Is it anhydrous? This is just like Pugsley's method of making HBr except that it yields NaI. Could it be used in the 450ml HI + 160g Ephedrine + 25g red phos (catalyst) and not fuck it up? Wouldn't it actually improve it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments BromoSafrole to X?? OK, the yields suck when you use Bromosafrole to make MDA via Isopropyl Alcohol/Anhyrdrous Ammonia or Ammonia Hydroxide. Let's talk about a method that disappeared from the net really fucking fast. Pugsley, cousin of Fester, Lester, Dancer and Prancer came up with a really interesting idea that no one seems to have tried. It is called the Delepine reaction and could theoretically be down at room temperature. If one were to follow the procedures for making Bromosafrole from NaBr (buy at a photo supply house), DMSO (health food store), H2SO4 (Drain Cleaner), and Sassafras Oil (Health food store), you could pour off the water from the Bromosafrole and mix in 200ml Ethanol (hardware store or Everclear) and add a 5mg tablet of Hexane camping fuel (assuming that the filler is inert). This should get the Delepine reaction going. Now, the instructions are pretty vague, but you could either reflux it, cook it in a pipe bomb, or supposedly let it react at room temperature for awhile. I don't know the numbers on the times or temps for the reflux, pipe bomb, or room temp deal. Anyone know? Or is anyone willing to stick it to the man and give it a shot? --------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 9/2/97 comments Speed Kills If you were going to do the Birch reduction: Anhydrous Ammonia (gas/welding shop or fertilizer) and Lithium wire (lithium batteries ripped open)_ or Sodium Metal (buy it in Canada from a pyrotechnics supply store) make sure you use a fume hood. Vent the fumes into the sewer pipes using a converted water jug with the bottom cut off attached to some tubing. Lead this tubing to an aspirator and connect the bottom of the aspirator to another tube leading far into the drain. Now, someone said that you could use calcium in an equimolar amount to replace the Lithium wire or sodium metal and get yields of up to 90%. Does anyone know what kind of calcium is used? Is this bullshit? Isn't the birch reduction a dissolving metal reduction? Where's the metal? Someone on the net said that when doing the HI/red phos reduction, it would be a good idea to use pyridine and carbon disulfide. What the hell is this? How is it used and how does it work? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/2/97 comments Strike What procedure uses only OTC chemicals. I don't want to buy chemicals from some narc front. Pool stores, dark room supply stores, hardware stores, etc have a variety of chemicals. Method 8 gives shitty yields. Thanks, Your great man - Kamikaze -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Here is a freshman level question I need an answer to... How does one go about refluxing for long periods of time without having an ice plant next door to your house that is open 24 hrs? dont you have to use an ice water bath to circulate cold water through the condenser via the pump? If so,

how the hell do you keep the water cold for those 24 hour reflux jobs?!?!Thanks in advance my brothers....Mr. Xerox -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments To the guy asking about the reflux job: No you don't need icewater to do a 24 hour reflux job. Just put one tube on your condenser wich leads to your sink and the other tube goes to your tap. Now pour the water constantly through your condenser. If the cooling doesn't work (e.g. fumes are leaving at the top) you need a longer condenser..... He strike sent some e-mail back to me..... I will sent some money for your book in a week... (-LOGICAL-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments To the guy asking about the reflux job: No you don't need icewater to do a 24 hour reflux job. Just put one tube on your condenser wich leads to your sink and the other tube goes to your tap. Now pour the water constantly through your condenser. If the cooling doesn't work (e.g. fumes are leaving at the top) you need a longer condenser..... Hey, strike sent some e-mail back to me..... I will sent some money for your book in a week... (-LOGICAL-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments I would just like to say FUCK SPEED!!!!!!!! It fucks your mind and your body. I knew this guy that was a heavy speed user for about six years. He died at the age of 33. When they preformed an autopsy, the doctor said that his organs had aged to that of a fifty year old. Why not do a drug that is at least pleasurable. Its like people who smoke cigarettes and won't smoke weed. At least smoking weed has a point to it! Fuck speed. There is a

reason why tweekers have a reputation for being liers and stealers. I did speed once and I thought that it was supposed to fuck you up, so when I didn't really feel that fuct from doing one big line, I did a big rail. I was up for about 2/3 days and I hated what it did to me. I felt this compulsive need to talk, even if it was the most meaningless bull shit. It got to the point where I would have to say something (all the while, not giving a shit about what the other person is desperately needing to say). Then, after I would say it, I would realize "what the fuck am I saying. that's so pointless and stupid". Speed and coke are both evil drugs that destroy wonderful people and you can feel that evil when it pulses through your veins. I'm just asking that anyone who is considering making speed, think about the things that you could be better spending your time on (X). Why not spread some love and happiness instead. The end.-- Hocus Pocus -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Some of you might wonder what someone with such limited chemical know how is doing at this sight. But, believe it or not, I have actually helped you with some of your questions in the past. And so now I am either asking that you help me by answering my questions or by helping me by telling me how I can find the answers myself. What I need to know is very simple for some of you: What is the density of 88% formic acid? What is the density of 30% hydrogen peroxide? What are the molarities of 15% and 96-98% sulfuric acid? What is the molarity of 3-5% NaOH? Please, this database is here to do more than just help ourselves. But, we do help ourselves collectively by helping each other. I'm sure that there are very few of us besides the almighty Strike that can do it without help from others and even Strike probably needed help at some point. So, I'm gonna shut up now, but please someone help me out. And no Hocus I honestly wouldn't bother with this information in order to make speed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Ok, ok, dude. You can answer any simple question you ever come across concerning density and molarity on you own just by reading the first chapter of a high school chemistry book. Believe me, that's what I did. But if you ever just want to know the density, boiling point, melting point, chemical formula, structural diagram, etc. for a specific chemical FAST,

just go to http://www.chemfinder.com/ . All you do is enter the name and voila! Instant info. (But at the moment it's under construction.)--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Oh, wait a minute. It's NOT under construction! It's at http://chemfinder.camsoft.com/ . You're in luck!--7432 -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments How about a step-by-step recipe for making MD-P2P from H2SO4 on the Stuff Page? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Why you shouldn't order from CRSB: 1. They adverstise on alt.drugs.chemitry and rec.drugs.chemistry 2. They sell red phosphorus 3. Tom Kasper wrote a detailed post on various methods of speed making. Check dejanews 4. CRSB Chemical Resale of Santa Barbara or Cop Ring Speed Bust? 5. He will special order phenylacetic acid 6. The anonymous post on the push/pull 3-hour meth was written by a guy in Santa Barbara and dedicated to Susan, his research assistant 7. He will discuss various illegal syntheses. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Strike How about a page dedicated to chemicals and the various places that they can be obtained? For example, phosphorus acid - the building material section of Home Depot. KMnO4 - Water softener from Sears (Cold Cat synthesis), HCl - muriatic acid from the hardware store, Benzene/Toluene/Acetone - Home Depot. Red Phos - flares bought at Pep Boys, Iodine - drug stores, DMSO - health food stores, NaI - Salt licks, etc.

Think about it. If people knew where to get chemicals from places other than narc fronts, everyone would be happier. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Books that you should buy and books that suck: Construction & OPeration of Clandestine Drug Labs - Excellent. Psych Chemistry - good for reference if you have a phd. skip it. Recreational Drugs - Very good. Fester's Secrets of Methamphetamine Manufacturing. Not very good. It contains many recipes for p2p-based meth. The X info sucks. The pill extraction sucks. His doesn't talk about the dangers of the Hydrazine or Birch reduction methods. His red phos/HI is crap. Strike will be forwarded some outstanding speed info soon. Fester's Practical LSD Manufacture - the parts on TMA-2 are very good and very useful. The rest is a waste. Bottom Line: Buy Total Synthesis and Construction & Operation of Clandestine Drug Labs. The TMA-2 info will be appearing in a more useful form on this page pretty soon. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments dimerize Catechol which then splits to give 1,3 benzodioxole. Wouldn't it be possible to get the same C-O coupling through the -OH and -CH3 groups of Eugenol, without reducing Eugenol to Allylpyrocatechol, so giving a dimer which splits to Safrole directly without screwing the ally chain? This type of C-O coupling has precedents and the process 'looks' gentle enough not to screw the allyl chain. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Whoops, the inevitable typo in the dimerization question... I meant to type methoxy, not methyl. ie a coupling of the hydroxy of -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date:

9/3/97 comments Anyone know how to synthesize 4-MethylAminorex without using Cyanogen Bromide? Isn't it just a 4-methyl group attached to the phenol core of AMinorex? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Does anyone have any info about the iodosafrole method for making X? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/3/97 comments Recreational Drugs is a good book for explaining different labaratory proceedures such as showing the different distillation methods and giving rules such as turning on the vacume first and increasing the temp. slowly for a vacume distillation. Basically, if you aren't absolutly experienced with laboratory proceedures, this book can help keep you from fucking up and having to pull glass out of your face. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/4/97 comments To me, growing and extracting the alkaloids out of ephedra plants seems to be the BEST way to get that almighty chemical that everyone wants. Buying it is just too risky. Im sure there are still quite a few people that still have access to but few im sure. I think we should concentrate our efforts in this endevor. there was a page one time (i lost it) that went throught the whole process. It was about two guys in nevada. They gathered enough of the plant to make 5lbs of ephedrine hcl!!!!! In the end they sold it to a bunch of bikers. I just want it for my weight problem. I wish I had that page. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/4/97 comments

Thank you for your help. I have taken chemistry and understand molarity completely, but I am not used to % solutions. What I am unsure of is, is % by volume, mass or ( what I would think) moles? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/4/97 comments One of the best ideas I've heard regarding this site (in addition to sharing techniques & processes) would be to share data on chemical companies! Could help keep some of us out of trouble. Great idea. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/4/97 comments Yeah, me too. I agree. Data on chemical companies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/4/97 comments I think everyone should find out their own shit as far as suppliers goes. Some government drug officer could be assigned to read this page and look for any clues leading to identities and what not. Giving that sort of info out would be telling the fuckheads where it is most likely for evil chemists to go for chemicals. This brings me to my second point (kind of), I also think that whatever measures possible should be taken so that this page doesn't get too (in)famous. The more well known this page is the more dangerous it is. People, be careful what you say and do. Really. I myself only give my fake name half the time I post on this page. For now, the government drug enforcement is only going to get better and more crafty at what they do. Think if your only job was to make drugs (maybe it is), well there are people whose only job is to catch drug makers. I think that we should be open with most information, but taking someone else's advice on a good supplier for the right combination of chemicals could lead to your downfall. If's great to say who to stay away from, but can't you get off your lazy asses and get some of the stuff from local places anyway. I think its safer. --Hocus Pocus -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/4/97

comments This is not intended to slander or defame the character of the following person. If various sources who have confirmed this info to be true are incorrect, then I sincerely apologize. There is strong reason to believe that: jdavidson@aol.com is in bed with the feds. You have been warned. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/4/97 comments Back To School Special: Now that school is starting, it is the perfect time to buy some glassware. If you go down to the local university library or science department, ask to look at some of their equipment catalogs. Call them up and inform the operator that you are a college student who broke a few pieces of glassware during Orgo (college kids say Orgo, not organic) Lab and would like to replace the equipment. Explain that you are afraid of receiving a failing grade. Sound distressed. Do NOT attempt to purchase chemicals or too much equipement. Do not use a fake company name. Tell the person that you will Fed-Ex a check (if you attend college, this is perfect) or a money order. After you get your first order, your foot is in the door and you now have an account. This will save a tremendous amount of money in the long run. The prices at these places are unbelievable. Have fun... -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/4/97 comments Looking for Ephedrine: 1. Sun Labs in Canada 1-800-999-9999 sells 1000 25mg pills without Gaufiensen (sp?) 2. Extract it from MaHuang or Ephedra base 3. Extract it from ephedrine pills sold through mail order. If there is interest, I'll post how to easily extract it even when it has guafiensen -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/4/97 comments Does anyone know what freon is used for in clandestine labs?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/5/97 comments To the person who offered to give easy instruction on how to extract ephedrine from minithins....that would be great! Also, sudafed seems to have alot more active ingredient than those mini thins, how about an extraction procedure for them as well? BUT!!!! I still feel that the best source for ephedrine is the plant. I have been trying to find a way to go about making ephedrine/psuedoephedrine HCL from the ephedra plant. There are numerous extraction procedures on the net explaining alkaloid extration from cacti and other unrelated plants not ANY variety of ephedra species. I feel that this sucks big time because NO ONE can stop people from growing this plant. Again, there was a page that explained the procedure but i lost the damn thing. According the authors, they made about 5lbs of ephedrine HCL from the species that grows all over Nevada. This piece of information would definitely make the war futile....lets concentrate our efforts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/5/97 comments To the person offering the mini thins extraction procedure that would be VERY cool indeed. Actually, a sudafed extraction procedure would be just as good unless the procedure works just as well for both. My main concern is the find a viable procedure for extracting the ephedra plant itself. This piece of information would definitely make the war futile. There was a page a long time ago that explain the procedure but it seems to have disapeared. According to the author they made 5lbs of ephdedrine HCL using the species found in NEVADA! They in turn sold it to a bunch of bikers for a few thousand dollars. Anyway, you guys get my point. There are all kind of procedure for extracting alkaloids from cacti and other plants but nothing about ephedra. I think one of you knowledgable persons should end that dilema. The powers that be would be helpless against it! Let concentrate our efforts.....victory! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/5/97 comments O by the way, where does one get formaldihyde (sp)? I need to embalm some

pesky mice around my house! -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/5/97 comments Strike, Thanx... (-LOGICAL-) -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/5/97 comments Where did Strike go? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/5/97 comments Would a chemist need to be concerned about possible emmisions of cyanide -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/5/97 comments Could somebody help a fellow busy bee out: I forgot, is the rule that you always add water to acid or is it acid to water? Thanx -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/6/97 comments conc. Sulfuric acid is 18M or 36N whichever helps. always add acid to water and slowly with stirring and cooling if needed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/6/97 comments RE: Freon... Used mainly as a solvent to dissolve a base oil for cyrstallization (R-12).. Other OTC solvents, when made anhydrous work much better (acetone, ether, DCM, benezene, etc.). Speed that was crystallized in R-12 has a mashed potatoes appearance (closely formed and small crystals). There's no advantage in using it except that it is easily purchased. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/6/97 comments Extraction of ephedrine HCl vs. Guafen. 1. Grind to fine powder 2. Extract with ice cold water epedrine hcl is soluable in ice cold water guaf. is only barely so. 3. Filter, keeping water cold {let the mix set overnight in the fridg. helps seperate the debris before filtering and don't try to get greedy and get every drop you can always do that later when you're jonesing 4. Evaporate liquid in pyrex plate in oven at 225-250 watch it don't let it burn dry. 5. Scrape powder/crystals (should look like long flat greasy flakes). 6. Wash with small quantity of dry ether or acetone. 7. Redry powder using warm source (no flames or sparks). 8. Solubility of final powder should be about 1 gram/ml cold water. -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/6/97 comments -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/6/97 comments and if a want to know more about you ..... how can i do? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/6/97

comments and if a want to know more about you ..... how can i do? -------------------------------------------------------------------------Date: 9/6/97 comments Where did strike go? Hey, someone is trying to tell me that is is NOT possible to get ephedrine HCI from the ephedra plant itself, this is bullshit right? I understand that you will have at first the freebase but that freebase can be turned into the salt, right? Also, lets say that a person had about five lbs of ephedra plant soaking in a solvent, how much ephedrine freebase should be expected? Strike, COME BACK TO US BROTHER!!!!! ephedra plant extract? Somebody help!!!! Come on. --------------------------------------------------------------------------

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