Interview with Sa'ida Jarallah

Place: Jerusalem
Date: Apr. 19, 1994
Interviewed by Ellen Fleischmann (in Arabic)
Translated and transcribed from Arabic into English by Rheem Totah

Introduction

Ellen Fleischmann interviewed Sa'ida Jarallah in her home in the Arab neighborhood of
Shaykh Jarrah, Jerusalem, in 1994. Mrs. Jarallah was one of the first Palestinian Muslim
young women to study abroad on her own, in England in 1938. She was also very active
in different women's organizations during the British Mandate period (1922-1948).
Below she talks about her life.

[Mrs. Jarallah]:

I still have memories from the time I was in England. My memories did not fade away
but this paper I painted my paintings on faded. I used to work with someone who was a
member of the Royal Academy, Mrs. Brown. I went with her in 1938 when we used to
but the special painting paper. At that time paper was cheap. ( She is explaining about her
paintings) I used to draw them in the holidays, I had to do homework. I stayed in England
for one year training in education and upraising. I was happy there.

-You only studied for one year there?

Yes, Miss Ridler [the British head of the Women's Training College, a secondary school
for Arab girls] used to send us there to learn methods of teaching.

My father supposedly was a fundamentalist shaykh, shaykh Hussam al-Din Jarallah. He

was famous and was written about in history. Everybody was angry with him for sending
me in 1938-39 in the beginning of the war to England. I was supposed to be a Muslim
girl and I shouldn't travel to Britain alone.

-You were alone?

Yes, my family saw me to Haifa. I traveled by ship with an English family so I could
keep them company. I was greeted in Waterloo station by Miss Ridler herself. She was
the head of all the teachers of Palestine. My sister and my uncle Sameer's daughter were
among the first to graduate from these schools.

-I want to know about your sisters because I read something about them.
My sister Nafisa graduated from the Teacher's training college and sat for the Highest
Test as they used to name it. This test was only for the men. She used to work also at the
Teacher's training college. I, at that time came from England and worked at the Teacher's
Training College in Jerusalem where Miss Ridler used to work. I used to teach there.
After the British were gone I worked at the Training College in Ramallah. My sister
Nafisa also worked there. My other sister Ra'ida worked in the ministry of education also
with the Training colleges. Also Musa's three sisters were also educated, the eldest was a
principal in Jaffa, Samih Jarallah. She died recently. She used to live with me and used to
work with the Hilal and with the women's associations.

I also worked with the women's associations. I was a member in the Arab Women's
Associations. But now I am to old to work with them. My sister still works with them.
We established the association but then Samah Nusseibeh took over. His other sister Sara
was also a principal in Jaffa. All his sisters and mine were educated and worked and
when we came here they also worked until they retired and as you know they died.

-Do you know anything about the Women's Solidarity Association [a women's group
founded in the 1940s]?

A women named Luli Abu al-Huda from Egypt came. Her father was a big minister in
Jordan and her mother was one of those high class rich Turkish women. When I went to
England her daughter used to study in Oxford, and they invited me to go and stay with
them in Oxford and I made a few art pieces there.

Miss Ridler's college was the first college to be established in Palestine and only took
people with the highest grades from the Palestinians all over from Jerusalem, from Haifa
and from Gaza. When I first taught in this college, I had students from all over Palestine,
the top students from all over the country.

-When was the Women's Training College first established?

I don't know exactly. I only remember that my sister Nafisa and his sister were among the
first to graduate from that college. I remember that Miss Ridler used them as propaganda
to show that these women succeeded in school, because you know at that time
Palestinians were afraid to send their daughters to school. So when the high class families
agreed to educate their daughters all the people were encouraged to do so to. It was a four
year boarding school. We were given English, math, geography, history and also
vocational training like sewing and weaving and cooking. Anyone educated at the
Women's college was a good seamstress. They also taught them housekeeping and all the
domestic sciences. I used to teach history and geography.

-Why wasn't your father against the idea of educating his daughters?

That's just the way he was. He believed in educating women. I used to joke about it and
say my father is a foreigner not an Arab at all. He was from the well known Jarallah
family of Jerusalem. We have our own Hara (neighborhood) in Jerusalem. They came
with Salah al-Din al-Ayyubi(1) and fought with him during his war, and they lived near
the Haram(2). That's why they call us Jarallah which means we are God's House
neighbors. A well known Jewish writer wrote about my family in his book, saying we
were the first family who moved outside the wall of Jerusalem. We were not afraid to live
in the lands outside not protected by the wall. These houses we live in are the old houses
we built, the room we are in right now is newly built but my sisters' rooms are old. But
still many of the Jarallah family still live inside the wall.

-I want to ask you about the Women's Solidarity Association.

I worked with them and half of the work to be done I used to do it. I used to know Arabic
well from my father and I also spoke English. So I was responsible for many things. I
also was in charge of the newsletter they used to issue. It used to include advice and
writings and ways of decorations for the women. I always wrote the introduction.

-Do you have copies of this pamphlet?

No, they were all stolen.

-What was the difference between the Arab Women's Association and the Women's
Solidarity Association?

The Arab Women's Association was very old and they used to do charity. The Solidarity
was more cultural. We used to meet and have lectures and write letters and the women
would meet over tea. It was more social work.

The Arab Women's Association was more in charge of monitoring the education process
and the establishment of schools in the Palestinian villages. We were among the first
people to take young educated women and open schools for them to teach in. We were
responsible for the education of orphan children. We also ran a school for the illiterate. I
also remember that we used to educate the young girls free till fourth grade. We used to
have three different classes in the same room and try to teach some to read and the others
to write. When I left to Bahrain, Samah Nusseibeh expanded the association and did more
work and it is like you saw.

-When did you leave for Bahrain?

It must have been either 1961 or 62.

-Were you here in 1948 [when the war between Arabs and Jews broke out]?

Of course we were. All my father's books and ours were sold in 1948. Everything was
ruined. When I first married I lived with my husband's family for one year and then we
lived in Jericho before we lived here. Then we went to Bahrain where we stayed for 18
years. But we were here in the forties and the fifties. We escaped to Jericho for a whole
year, and [everything in] this house was all stolen-- nothing was left, no doors, no
bathrooms or electricity--everything was stolen. Everything you see in the house today is
new. The Mennonite(3) was our house and when the Israeli army occupied the country
they took over our house because it was high, and they used to shoot at the Arab soldiers
from our house. This was when we escaped to Jericho. When we came back the British
were here and they evacuated the Jewish army. When the British came, they saw my
pictures of Oxford and England, and took them all claiming they were memories of their
country. They also took simple things from the house.

When I got married I went with my husband to Jericho for one year and they we lived in
his parents' house, the red one right there.

-Do you remember the strike and the revolt in 1936?

Yes, I remember. We were here. The strike lasted six months. My husband was in Jaffa
and I was at the training college. I used to walk to the training college and come back. I
remember the women of Jerusalem used to walk it to Bethlehem and back. I was scared
of the roads which were not safe, so I used to take a short cut.

-where was the training college?

It was the church of the Ethiopians, and there was a law school there. It was across from
the German hospital. It was on the West side of the city. It is on the road to Lifta. There
were two hospitals there, the German hospital and the British hospital. It is far from here.

-Were you active with the Itihad al-Talibat [female student's union]?

No, I worked with the ladies Club. There was a foreign women's association and we used
to go to Jordan to watch shows--both Arab and foreign women. We used to pay a fee in
US dollars. I was the secretary but they assigned me to do the accounts. Mr. Khader used
to do them, he taught me how, and I started doing them. There were British and foreign
women who used to come and bring films for us to watch. This was during 1955-60
before I went to Bahrain. I was still newly wed and we used to pay the fee and I used to
collect the money. We did not have a permanent place, instead we used to go to hotels
and drink tea and sometimes meet in the Ambassador Hotel.

-But you were not active in Itihad al-Talibat during 1936?

No, when I was young I went to Schmidt college which was in Jaffa Street. Now it's near
Damascus gate. I was brought up there in the boarding school with my sisters. My father
sent us to a foreign school--a Catholic school even though we were Muslims. He was
supposed to send us to a Muslim school, Dar al-Aytam al-Islamiya (Islamic Orphans
School). He wanted to teach us English as well. I stayed in boarding school for ten years.
It was near Zion's Cinema. We lived like we were kings there; we used to go home once a
month. But after the occupation (1967) it was moved to the German building near
Damascus gate. This is the new school which I did not attend. I was in the old one in
Jaffa street.
-Do you speak German?

Yes, of course I speak German well, along with Arabic and English! Also when I came
here I learned Hebrew so we can understand the T.V and know what the food is. We went
to the Husseini institute near Zahra Gate. We learned for six months. We wanted to
continue three more months but there were no students and we couldn't continue. It's a
shame if we continued learning then we would have known how to speak better than this.

-Do you know any of these women? [showed her a photograph from a book]

Fatima al-Budeiri was a colleague. Hind al-Husseini, yes I used to work with her in the
Solidarity Association, then I left and she continued with Dar al-tifl(4). All our work was
together. When I left things were getting worse so Hind got all the children and continued
with Dar al-tifl. `Aysha Dajani used to go to Schmidt with us she was an only child.
Nafisa al-Husseini, she owns the Orient House [currently headquarters of the PLO], she
is still alive. Khadija Fir'ayun went to Schmidt with us. She was very active and talkative
in class. She used to make trouble in the class and mess the class up. She used to buy
Igdameh (roasted hummus) and pass it around in math class and when we ate it in class
the teacher used to kick us out of class. She was very funny and witty. I think she was
originally from Syria. Her sister Jamila was married to the biggest doctor in Saudi
Arabia. She was beautiful and her husband used to send someone with her if she was
taking a plane anywhere. He always used to look after her.

Nafisa, Salma and Badriya are all sisters and well educated. I think they are all alive. The
Husseini family own half of Bab Zahra. We own Shaykh Jarrah. The Alami family own
land near Jabaleh.

-Do you anything about the difference between the Itihad al-Nisa'i al-`Arabi [Arab
Women's Union] and Jam'ayat al-Sayyidat al-Arabiyat [Arab Ladies Association]?

Yes, they were both one association. Zlikha Shihabi and Zahiya Nashashibi [two leaders]
both competed for being the presidents and so they split up. Zahiya was very simple and
used to save money, so she established the Arab Women's Association along with all the
Nashashibi family. On the other hand Zlikha Shihabi stayed in the Itihad and she was
more political. She used to go out on demonstrations and politically active. The Arab
Women's Association was more into charity work while the Itihad was more political.
Zlikha Shihabi was always the first one to go to the demonstrations and demand for
different things. She died only a few years ago.

-Were there any problems between the Itihad and the Jam'iya?

No, they had mutual respect. I used to help the Arab Women's Association because they
asked me to do so and I agreed. I used to do all the proposal writing for the UN. It was
very hard work. When I got married I used to wake up in the night when my daughter
was asleep and write all the letters and proposals. I stopped working with them when I
left to Bahrain. Life was different in Bahrain. They used to love us there. I used to give
them free lessons. The weak poor girls I used to teach I used to help and tutor them for
free. They used to respect us there. We stayed for eighteen years. My husband was a
court judge and I was a big teacher in high school.

-How many children do you have?

I have an only daughter married to a doctor in Saudi Arabia. My other children did not
survive. She comes all the time. Now I can talk to her on the phone. There are
international lines now.

- Can I ask you about the social life here in Jerusalem during the mandate period?

My sisters and I were among the first women who took off the veils. People talked of
course but we did not care. Don't forget that my father was a shaykh. When he became
the highest Mufti for the king and we were hiding out in Jericho, my father had a car that
was a present from King Abdallah called Hamber (Humbert?). He used to have a driver
as well. He would take us for rides from Jericho without our veils and with make-up on
and everyone would see us. My mother was also from the Jarallah family. At that time
they never married their daughters from outside the family. Even if the greatest man
came to ask a women's hand and he was not from Jerusalem they would not marry their
daughter to him. They thought that the Jerusalamites were the best and the others from
Nablus or Tulkarm were not as classy as they were. This kind of thinking was very
common.

I remember one time there was a big feast and King Abdallah was attending. One of the
people told the king that Shaykh Hussam teaches his daughters how to play the piano and
sends his daughters to foreign schools. My father stood in front of the king and cited
some of the Prophet's sayings about education and culture in front of everybody. He told
him that the prophet said "you should pursue your education even if it takes you to
China"--and that education was a requirement for every Muslim man and woman. We
were the first to go to Zion (shorthand for Dames de Sion, a girls' school) in a boarding
school and the first to learn to play the piano. This was very difficult sixty or seventy
years ago. Muslims were very strict those days. My sisters and my sisters-in-law were the
first students of Miss Hilda in the Teacher's Training [College]. Miss Hilda used them for
propaganda and everyone wanted to go to the training college afterwards.

-How were relations between Muslims and Christians?

We never felt the difference. We were all the same. We were educated and never felt any
difference but the old generation used to differentiate between both Christians and
Muslims. We use to live together in boarding schools and in the training college and as
members of the same associations. Miss Wahbi(5) was my teacher in the training college
and her sister Sofi taught me in Schmidt. We lived together like sisters and never felt any
difference. We used to love each other. The old generation used to make a big fuss about
it, especially in marriage if a Muslim girl married a Christian that was a big scandal.
-Do you have any brothers or are you just girls?

No, we are seven sisters and two brothers. My younger brother died a few years ago. My
other brother lives in Spain. He studied there and married a Spanish women. She lived
here with my family until the 1967 war. Her family worried about her, so she took her
young children and went to live with them in Spain. My mother then told my brother to
follow his wife and he did. Now he has a business going on there.

I remember when my father used to be visited by foreigners they would call all of us the
small college because there were so many of us. My father was different. I don't know
why.

-Did he have a beard?

Yes it was long and beautiful and he was always nicely dressed. They used to call him the
Smart Shaykh. He studied in al-Azhar [a major Islamic university in Cairo] and his
teacher was Shaykh Muhammad Abdu(6) who used to demand the freedom of women.
Ajaj Nuweihad mentioned in his book that Shaykh Hussam Jarallah, my father, studied
under Muhammad Abdu and sent his daughters to study abroad. They used to mark this
act as a sin for him. But my father said that he was willing to sacrifice.

When I left to England I was only eighteen, I finished school early and got a scholarship
to study in England. My mother told me she worried about sending me but that she
couldn't prevent me. She said that if something happened to my reputation then I would
ruin things for my six sisters. She was worried about me because I was not used to talking
to men and to go and come as I wish. I never forgot her tears and her tears made me be
careful with whom I talked and with whom I visited. This was a very long time ago, in
1938.

-What did you used to do as young girls?

We used to go to the cinema at the holidays. My father did not mind us going but my
mother was against it and did not like us to go. But we did anyway. There were beautiful
old movies. I remember seeing "Gone With The Wind" three or four times. Sometimes
my mother and father used to go with us and my father used to explain the movie to us.
My father was more like the foreigners. They used to blame my father for letting us do as
we wished. This is a favor my sisters and I will never forget from our father for as long as
we live. He was honest to us. He loved us and respected us and treated us like real
women. And those days people still wore the hijab (Islamic head scarf). People used to
look differently at me when I rode the bus to the Training College. I used to be wearing
nice clothes. Men used to look at me differently because I was not wearing the hijab.
Once I was riding the bus and an old women wearing the hijab recognized me, she said to
me "Sa'ida, why are you not wearing the hijab? Do you think when you get married that
your husband will allow you to go out without the hijab?" I answered her in front of all
the men in the bus, "If Shaykh Hussam gave me the permission to go out without the
hijab then there is no one in the world that can force me to wear it."
I used to love those days. We all cared for each other and lived a happy life. I used to
help my brothers in math and geometry in English when they used to go to St. George's
school [an Anglican school run by the British] during their tawjihi [a matriculation exam]
years.

-Generally speaking, how were relations between the British and the Arabs?

It was very good. They used to respect us. In the early days when buses were still new in
Shaykh Jarrah we used to ride them to town. When the bus was full we would go and sit
next to the British soldiers not next to the Arab men. Even though we were Muslim
women, the British soldier was more polite when we sit next to him. Arab men were not
used to having women sit next to them.

-Were any of your friends British?

No, not those days. It was only during the Jordanian rule [1948-1967] in the Ladies Club
did I meet British and foreign women. In 1967 my husband and I were in Bahrain and we
only heard the news about what was going on in Shaykh Jarrah. They were very rough
times.

-Do you have any pictures?

My sister Nafisa has some but my pictures are in Jordan and I did not bring them with
me. I have pictures of my husband when he was young. He worked as an inspector for
Arabic and Islamic religion teachers in the training colleges of all Palestine. I remember
someone used to say that he looked like Jesus Christ with his beard and beautiful face. He
was also with the Triple Committee [?] during the British mandate. During one time also
he was a judge. My father was in the Shari`a [Islamic law] court, later he became a mufti.
That's why people used to blame my father for allowing us to study in Catholic schools
and sending us to finish our education abroad. His job required him to be consistent with
the Islamic Shari`a and not allow his daughters to do as they wish. But he used to trust us
and love and respect us, and never did anything to disappoint us. My father believed in
educating women. He would say that a women should have her diploma as a bracelet in
her hand. For if she did not get married or married but was widowed or divorced she
should be independent and have her own job and life and not depend on her father or
brother to support her. We were seven daughters and he was always worried that we
should be able to provide for ourselves.

-Were there women who had jobs other than in teaching?

Only a few. We were the first to have jobs. There were no high institutes or colleges
except the Teacher's Training College and we were taught to be teachers. Even when I
went to England I went for a teacher's training course. When I went to Bahrain all my
students were educated and studied to be doctors and lawyers. During the Mandate period
there were no women doctors, because of lack of schools.(7) But we were teachers and
free to go and come.
-I think there was more freedom then than there is now?

Yes, this is true; now we hardly go out. When we want to visit Ramallah it is usually a
curfew. A few months ago I was in Ramallah when the army threw tear gas and there was
a woman in the store giving onions to the people there to smell so they would not be
affected by the tear gas. It was so funny because I did not know that it was tear gas in the
first place.

I think we should take you to visit the Jarallah house near the Haram [the Dome of the
Rock complex]. It is a beautiful house. I did not live in that house. I lived in the
Mennonite for ten years and then we went to Jericho and then to Bahrain.

-Did you know of women at that time who were politically active?

The Itihad were very politically active. They used to hold demonstrations and write
petitions and write to magazines. They were very active. My sister used to broadcast in
the Near East Radio and I used to broadcast in the Jerusalem radio in the women
program. At that time, it was a scandal for women to go to the radio station because there
were artists and musicians. My father said that there was no harm in my going and doing
the program. So I started the women's program five minutes every Friday. We had
women from all over Palestine. I used to write to women and tell them to send me articles
by them to broadcast them in our program. This was an encouraging step for women to
have the shaykh's daughter to go to the radio station. Women from Jaffa, Haifa and Acre
used to come and I used to go with them to the station and they used to broadcast their
poems and articles. Did you ever hear of Anbara Sallam al-Khalidi? She was a respected
woman and I invited her to say the opening words on our first program. I introduced her
and we started broadcasting every Friday. My father stopped his prayer just to see how
we broadcasted. It was time for the Friday prayers and my father delayed his prayer just
to listen to our broadcasting. Azmi Nashashibi was the director of the station. Anbara al-
Khalidi was a famous woman in Palestine. She was married to Ahmad Khalidi who was
the principal of the men's Arab College. His son is Walid al-Khalidi who is politically
active. Anbara was originally from Lebanon. I gave up this whole program when we went
to Jericho. In Jericho my father was appointed by King Abdallah as the highest Mufti of
Palestine in Hajj Amin's place. Hajj Amin escaped from the country. At that time King
Abdallah was king also of the West Bank.

NOTES

1. Salah al-Din al-Ayyubi was the brilliant Muslim general who defeated the Crusaders
and recaptured Jerusalem in 1187. He is known in the West as Saladin.
2. This is short for al-Haram al-Sharif, the Noble Sanctuary, the Arabic name for the
Dome of the Rock complex located on the site on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem.
3. The Mennonites have a project located in an old stone house near the Jarallah house.
4. Dar al-tifl was an orphan's home established In Jerusalem by Hind Husseini for the
orphaned children whose parents were killed at Dayr Yassin in 1948.
5. A well known Arab Christian educator during the Mandate period.
6. A renowned Muslim educator and reformer in Egypt in the late nineteenth century.
7. (This is not entirely accurate; there were a few.)