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2013 Trial Transcripts
PLEASE HELP US TO CONTINUE THIS EFFORT FOR MICHAE L! <<CLICK
Paul Gongaware
(Co-CEO of AEG Live Concerts West, This Is It Producer)
Plaintiffs Adverse Witness.
Direct examination (resumed)
By Mr. Panish:
Q. Good morning, Mr. Gongaware.
A. Good morning.
Q. You have a chance to meet with your attorneys after court yesterday?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. Did you meet with them again today?
Q. Ok, and I want you to assume in the contract with Dr. Murray, it was dr. Murray, dr. Murray's
company, and AEG; Ok. You understand that?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. Ok, who was AEG to enter into a contract with just them and Dr. Murray?
A. I'm not understanding the question, Sir.
Q. Well, you told us, who is AEG to tell Michael Jackson who his doctor is; right?
A. I believe so.
Q. Ok, so I want to know who is AEG to enter into a contract with Dr. Murray as a party to the
contract.
A. I have no idea.
Q. Why did AEG need to enter into a contract with Dr. Murray?
A. I don't know.
Q. Now, Sir... Yesterday you told us that AEG ...who is AEG to fire Dr. Murray. Do you
remember that?
A. Not specifically.
Q. Ok, AEG could fire dr. Murray at any time, couldn't they, Sir?
A. I don't believe so. He was Michaels doctor.
Q. Well, Sir... Karen Faye, you talked about how you were going to pull the plug on her
yesterday; right?
AEG objection: misstates prior testimony; sustained.
Q. You remember the email where it said, pull the plug. You remember that, Sir?
A. Yes. That was Randy who said that.
Q. Right. And he was referring to Karen Faye, right. That's what you told us yesterday?
A. I believe he was.
Q. Yea, so Karen Faye was Michael Jacksons hairdresser, wasn't she, for 20 years?
A. She would have been an employee of the tour.
Q. Just like Dr. Murray was going to be an employee of the tour; right, Sir?
A. No, Sir. He was Michael Jacksons physician.
Q. But the contract that he was entering into was between him and AEG, wasn't it, Sir?
AEG objection: lacks foundation; overruled.
A. Michael Jackson was a part of that whole thing.
Q. You've never even seen the contract, have you, Sir?
A. No, Sir.
Q. You don't know who is a party to it because you've never seen it, have you?
A. That's true.
Q. And, Sir... Have you seen the contract with Karen Faye?
A. No.
Q. If it was Michael Jacksons doctor, why was AEG entering into a contract with Michael
Jacksons doctor?
AEG objection: asked and answered and argumentative; sustained.
Q. Sir... You said that this is Michael Jacksons doctor; right?
A. Yes.
Q. Ok, can you tell us why AEG would enter into a contract with Michael Jacksons doctor?
AEG objection: same objection; sustained.
Q. Ok, is it fair to say you don't know why AEG would enter into a contract with Michael
Jacksons doctor?
A. Yes. Fair to say that.
Q. Ok, and AEG, you told us, Mr. Phillips excuse me, was going to pull the plug on Karen
Faye, Michael Jacksons hairdresser for 20 years; right?
A. I believe that's what he was referring to.
Q. And AEG had the power to do that; right, Sir?
A. She was an employee ... Would have been an employee of the tour, so yes.
Q. So she was going to be an employee of AEG Live Productions; isn't that right, Sir?
A. I believe so.
Q. Now, Michael Jackson never negotiated any price with Dr. Murray, did he, Sir?
A. I believe he did through me. He instructed me on what to offer him.
Q. Sir... Did Michael Jackson, to your knowledge, ever negotiate directly with Dr. Murray?
A. I don't know.
Q. Ok, the only one that you know that negotiated with Dr. Murray was yourself and Mr.
Woolley; correct?
AEG objection: misstates prior testimony; overruled.
A. I believe so.
Q. And in the contract with Karen Faye, she had to do what was demanded by the producer;
correct?
AEG objection: lack of foundation; sustained.
Q. You've never seen Karen Fayes contract or any of the independent contractors' contracts for
anyone on the tour; is that right, Sir?
A. That's right.
Q. So you don't know what their duties were and what their responsibilities were; right?
A. That's right.
Q. Ok, was Faye, Karen Faye, an independent contractor or employee, Sir. Or do you know?
A. Don't know for sure.
Q. And you felt it was appropriate to put that expense for Dr. Murray as a production expense;
correct?
A. I think what we were referring to yesterday was his housing. And I didn't necessarily agree
with it, but I didn't really argue with Timm at that point because all those things would be settled
in the final settlement. Dr. Murray would have been 100 percent charged to Michael Jackson.
Q. Sir... You never read the contract, did you?
A. No, I didn't.
Q. You don't know what the contract called for, do you?
A. No.
Q. Sir... When we were talking yesterday, we were talking about 300,000. Was that the cost of
the housing for Dr. Murray in London, Sir?
A. The 300,000 that you're referring to that you showed me yesterday was I think called medical
management, and I don't know what that was.
Q. Ok, but that wasn't for housing, was it, Sir?
A. I don't know.
Q. Now, Sir... We were talking about the meetings, and you were unclear as to how many and
when, and you did remember one with Dr. Murray; right?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. Ok, now, what does it mean to engage someone?
A. In a contractual sense?
Q. Well, Sir... Have you ever said that you had a meeting with Dr. Murray about engaging him?
A. I don't recall.
Mr. Panish: Ok, let's play the deposition.
Q. Do you recall a meeting at the carolwood house where the conversation was that you
needed to make sure Dr. Murray had everything he needed to get Michael where he needed
to be? Do you recall that?
Paul Gongaware: there was a meeting at the carolwood house that included Dr. Murray,
yes.
Q. And do you recall also at that meeting discussing Mr. Jackson's health, eating habits,
nutrition; that kind of thing?
Paul Gongaware: Im not sure that thoseIm not sure about those things, but it was
about, you know, Dr. Murray and engaging him.
Q. And do you recall at that meeting
Mr. Panish: stop right there. I think counsel wanted to change that testimony.
Mr. Putnam: he changed this from Dr. Murray and engaging him to Dr. Murray and
engaging Michael Jackson.
Mr. Panish: Ok
Q. Sir... After your testimony, you went back ... Remember, you met with the lawyers, and then
you changed it from engaging him, you added in Michael Jackson; right?
A. Yes.
Q. Ok, what does it mean...
Judge: just to clarify, the change is Dr. Murray and engaging him and Michael Jackson or
is it...
Mr. Putnam: no, the he is replaced ... He defines the him as Michael Jackson.
Q. Ok, you never wrote that change out yourself, did you, Sir?
A. I discussed it with my lawyers.
Q. That was the thing that you had in your head after you read the deposition, all those changes
that you wanted to make; right?
A. One of them.
Q. And you specifically remembered that you wanted to change him to Michael Jackson. You
remembered that specifically; right?
A. I don't remember what the numbers were, but I do remember it.
Q. And that was a month after your deposition, you remembered it?
A. I don't recall when we discussed it.
Q. Ok, now, Sir... What does it mean to engage someone. You told us, I think, earlier, to enter
into a contract; is that right?
A. Here, I think we were talking about making sure Michael Jackson was engaged and focused
on the job that he had to do.
Q. Ok, before you said it was ... Engage means to enter into a contract with someone; right?
A. Well, I didn't understand what you were getting at, Sir.
Q. I just asked you what engage meant to you. Remember that?
A. Yes.
Q. Ok, when you say, engaged, what does that mean engaging what does that mean, as the
second definition you've given us?
A. In this light, Sir. This context?
Q. Put aside what you said about a contract. Engaging someone, what does that mean to you?
Q. All rightnow Sir... You talked about Michael Jacksons nutrition. I'm going to withdraw that
question. One meeting, another meeting you remember at carolwood, was when Michael Jackson
showed up late; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And that's where you thought he was under the influence of some prescription medication;
correct?
A. I thought he was off at the time. Just wasn't quite right.
Q. He had slurred speech; right?
A. A little bit.
Q. Well, you thought he was under the influence of a prescription medication, didn't you, Sir?
A. I didn't know what he was under the influence of, but he was a little bit off.
Q. He had just gone to a doctor, hadn't he, Sir?
A. Yes, I believe it was Dr. Klein.
Q. And did you know Dr. Klein was giving him Demerol shots?
A. No, I didn't know that.
Q. You've never known that?
A. No.
Q. You didn't know that until today?
A. I didn't know he was giving him anything.
Q. So that's the first time you ever heard that?
A. I may have heard it, but I had no idea what dr. Klein was doing.
Q. But right after Dr. Klein's visit, Michael Jackson came to the home, and you felt that he was
off and had slurred speech; correct?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. And, Sir... You just testified that you were concerned about Mr. Jackson's nutritional needs; is
that correct?
A. At the meeting with Dr. Murray, that was discussed, yes.
Q. Have you ever testified that you never had anything to do with Mr. Jackson's nutritional
needs?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Ok, well, let's go to this page of your testimony under oath in this case, December 20th, 2012.
Remember that deposition, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And how many times have you read it before you came here to testify?
A. I read it once when it was presented to me the first time, and I read it a few weeks ago.
Q. So the answer is two?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. All right, did you watch the video of your testimony?
A. No.
Mr. Panish: Ok, well, let's watch this page about the nutritional needs.
Q. Do you recall ever being involved in looking for a nutritional person for Michael?
Paul Gongaware: I never was.
Q. You were never involved in that?
Paul Gongaware: No
Q. Do you know if anyone at AEG was looking for a nutritional person for Michael?
Paul Gongaware: I don't know
Q. That's not true, is it, Sir?
A. I did later see an email. I think one of the ones you presented that reminded me that I did look
for a nutritionist.
Q. Ok, Sir... You said ... You didn't say, I don't recall, you said, I never was involved under oath
in your deposition, didn't you, Sir?
A. I didn't recall it at the time.
Q. Sir... Did you say, I never was?
A. I believe I did. I just saw that.
Q. Ok, and when you signed it and made your changes that your lawyer helped you with, did you
change that testimony?
A. No, Sir.
Mr. Panish: let's show you, Sir... Another exhibit, which was showed to your deposition
when you said you never were involved in that situation. It's an exhibit of your deposition.
Q. This is you getting involved with Mr. Jackson for a nutritionist and a physical therapist; right?
A. Yeah, that's what it is. But your question was, was I involved with his nutrition, I believe. I
was attempting to find a nutritionist for him, but I didn't deal with his nutrition.
Q. I asked if you were involved ... All right who is Arlyne Lewiston.
A. She is Randy's assistant.
Q. Randy, is he sitting right there in the courtroom, he just showed up?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. Is that him, is that your boss?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. Ok now, let's go back, Sir... And let's look at another exhibit and Sir... Is it your testimony you
were not involved in trying to find a nutritionist for Mr. Jackson?
A. Well, obviously, I was trying to find a nutritionist, but I was not involved in his nutrition.
Q. Well, I just played your deposition. You remember?
A. Right.
Q. Where you denied having any involvement in nutrition at all. You remember that, Sir?
A. I interpreted that to mean that I had anything to do with what he ate, or whatever, and that's
how I understood that question.
Q. Well, let's see how you answered it. The question about finding a nutritionist. That's where
we're at. Your involvement in finding a nutritionist. You said you never were involved; right
that right?
A. I don't recall specifically.
Q. You just said you weren't involved; right?
A. I was involved in finding him a nutritionist and this email reminded me of that.
Mr. Panish: Ok, well, let's see what you said in your deposition.
Q. Do you recall ever being involved in looking for a nutritional person for Michael?
Paul Gongaware: I never was.
Q. You were never involved in that?
Q. And the right people were the nutritionists and the physical therapists; correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And, Sir... Mr. Ortega was concerned about Michael Jacksons health at this time, wasn't he?
A. I don't know. You'd have to ask him.
Q. Well, did you ... Strike the question. Mr. Ortega said, supernot a minute too soon. Let's turn
this guy around. Was he referring to Michael Jackson there, Sir?
A. Yes, I believe he was.
Q. So he felt Michael Jackson needed these specialists to turn him around; right?
A. That's what he says.
Q. And did you tell me you already had a nutritionist on board on June 15th, Sir?
A. I don't think we ... I don't think on June 15
th
we did.
Q. So you never had a nutritionist. When did you get the nutritionist that you just told me you
had, Sir?
A. I don't think he was a nutritionist, but he was a guy that was making sure that Michael ate.
Q. And that's the person whose name you couldn't remember?
A. David Loeffler.
Q. David Loeffler, that's Mr. Phillips' friend, isn't it, Sir?
A. I believe it is.
Q. That's who Mr. Phillips went to Mr. Jackson's house with and was on his way to his house, on
the day Michael Jackson died, isn't it, Sir?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Mr. Loeffler is the person that Mr. Phillips put in Mr. Jackson's dressing room, isn't he, Sir?
A. I don't know where he was.
Q. Well, tell me, what Mr. Loeffler is Mr. Phillips' friend's background in nutrition, Sir?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Did he go to school and study it?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Did he work at a health food store?
AEG objection: lacks foundation; overruled. If he knows
A. I have no idea.
Q. Do you know anything about Mr. Loeffler's qualifications other than he was Randy
Phillips' good friend?
A. Well, he's a guy that has dealt with artists quite a bit.
Q. Artists in trouble?
A. Artists in general.
Q. Does he usually help artists eat?
A. I don't know what he does generally.
Q. Ok, but you just know he works with artists. Who told you that?
A. I've seen him around. I've seen him work with artists in the past.
Q. What artists have you seen him work with, Sir?
A. J-lo, Enrique Iglesias.
Q. Anyone else?
A. Those are the ones offhand.
Q. Does he work for AEG Live, Mr. Loeffler?
A. I don't know who employs him.
Q. Well, have you seen him at the AEG Live offices?
A. Yes.
Q. Have you seen him with Mr. Phillips often?
A. Yes.
Q. If Michael had his own doctor, what was the need for a nutritionist, Sir?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you ask Mr. Ortega, why do we need a nutritionist?
A. No.
Q. When you said we are on it, who is we?
A. AEG
Q. AEG Live or is it AEG?
A. Probably AEG Live. But we would have used the resources of AEG
Q. Ok, so AEG Live was using the resources of AEG to get a nutritionist and physical therapy for
Michael Jackson for an unknown reason; correct?
A. Kenny asked for it.
Q. But you didn't know why?
A. No.
Q. Did you talk to Mr. Anschutz about that?
A. No.
Q. Did you talk to Mr. Leiweke about that?
A. I don't believe I asked Tim specifically, no.
Q. You were in contact with Mr. Leiweke during this time period, weren't you, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And Mr. Leiweke, he was the boss of Randy Phillips, wasn't he, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And he was the head of all of the AEG entities here in California, wasn't he, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And he reported directly to Mr. Anschutz, didn't he, Sir?
A. I have no idea how he reported.
Q. But, Mr. Leiweke was very involved in what was going on in This Is It, wasn't he, Sir?
A. I wouldn't say that.
Q. Ok, well, did you know that Mr. Phillips was emailing Mr. Leiweke when there were
problems with Mr. Jackson?
A. No.
Q. You never heard that before today?
A. I've heard offhand comments, but I didn't know it.
Q. Ok, did Mr. Phillips tell you that he was emailing Mr. Leiweke about problems with Mr.
Jackson?
A. No.
Q. Who told you?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Artists ... You would consider artists like athletes, wouldn't you, Sir?
A. In some sense.
Q. And they need the best care they can get, right, so they can perform?
A. Yes.
Q. And as you told us, your job was to get the show going; right?
A. Yes.
Q. Whatever it took; right?
A. Yes.
Q. And you told Dr. Murray, whatever you need to do, get this guy there so the show can go;
right, Sir?
A. Never told him that.
AEG objection: lacks foundation; overruled.
Q. I'm sorry, your answer was no?
A. Never told him that.
Q. Didn't you tell Dr. Murray, Sir...? That you wanted him to have everything he can to get the
show going?
A. I believe I told him that I wanted him to have everything he needed.
Q. Ok, and you didn't say anything like I want you to have everything you need that's legal,
did you?
A. No.
Q. You made no distinction, did you?
A. No.
Q. Ok, now Sir...did you notice Michael Jackson was thin?
A. He's always been thin.
Q. Did you notice that he was thin at the This Is It rehearsals in the end, before he died, Sir?
A. I didn't notice that specifically, no. I didn't really see him much at the rehearsals.
Q. Exactly, you didn't see the last two days of how he was doing, did you, Sir?
A. I saw bits of it. I saw parts of it.
Q. How much did you watch on the 23rd?
A. I don't know on the 23rd. I remember ... I think on the last day we ran thriller, and it was the
first time we had costumes, so I went and watched that.
Q. And how long were you there on that day, Sir... Watching Mr. Jackson?
A. I think I watched thriller.
Q. And how long was that five minutes?
A. It runs maybe ten.
Q. Ten well, Sir... Isn't it true that you testified that you never saw Mr. Jackson much at all that
day because you were too busy doing other things?
A. I don't recall that testimony, but that's what happened.
Q. That's true, isn't it, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. That you don't recall much of anything about the 24th because you spent much time ... Strike
the
Question. You didn't spend much of your time at the rehearsal on the 24th because you were busy
with other things; isn't that right, Sir?
A. I was at the rehearsal facility the whole time, but I wasn't out in the arena watching much.
Q. Ok, well, let's look at what you testified to, Sir... On the criminal trial of December 28th,
2011.
Mr. Panish: and let's look at the trial exhibit from that day. While your lawyer is looking at
that, when you say it means to be engaged, that means someone's focused; right. You told
me that earlier?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. So you thought Mr. Jackson was focused on the last day; right?
A. From what I saw, yes.
Q. But you didn't watch...
Mr. Punish: all right. Let me just read it. Or do we have the video?
AEG objection: improper impeachment.
Judge: Ok, is it improper impeachment. Do we need to have a sidebar, he's a party; right?
Mr. Panish: yes. Why don't we come back to it? I don't want to waste time on the sidebar.
Q. That email I just showed you about Ms. Lewiston, Sir...
A. Yes.
Q. Do you know who Luigi Gratton was?
A. No.
Q. No did I hear you right, Sir... You didn't know who that was?
A. No.
Mr. Panish: Ok, well let's play your testimony under oath in this case. And this is referring
to the exhibit that I just showed you.
Q. And who is Arlyne Lewiston?
Paul Gongaware: Randys assistant.
Q. And on June 17th, 2009, Arlyne Lewiston wrote, Carla says it's the same guy, Dr. Luigi
Gratton. You see that?
Paul Gongaware: yes.
Q. And then it looks like you, Paul Gongaware, responded to Arlyne Lewiston, he is also a
physical therapist. Do you see that, he is also a physical therapist?'
Paul Gongaware: I see that, yes.
Q. Ok, so there were you asking Ms. Lewiston if Dr. Luigi Gratton was also a physical
therapist?
Paul Gongaware: I don't know. I don't remember any of this.
Q. Ok now, if you go up to the first the first page at the very bottom where there's an e-
mail from Paul Gongaware to Arlyne Lewiston sent June 17th at the bottom of the page.
Paul Gongaware: got it.
Q. It says, we need a physical therapist and a nutritionist. Could be 2 different people. Is
that what that guy is; did I read that correctly?
Paul Gongaware: yes.
Q. Does that refresh your recollection that you were asking Ms. Lewiston if Dr. Gratton
was a therapist and nutritionist?
Paul Gongaware: No, I don't remember any of this.
Q. And then showing in the middle of the page, it looks like Ms. Lewiston was expressing
some confusion about what was being talked about, and you state from Paul Gongaware
to Arlyne Lewiston, Wednesday, June 17th, 2009, 5:23 p.m., you wrote, this is for MJ. He
needs a nutritionist and a physical therapist. Do you see that?
Paul Gongaware: see it.
Q. Does that refresh your recollection that you were involved in trying to find Michael
Jackson a nutritionist?
Paul Gongaware: I don't recall any of this.
Q. In any of your other concert tours on which you worked in the producer role, have you
sought a nutritionist for the artist?
Paul Gongaware: in a producer role, no.
Q. In a in a promoter role?
Paul Gongaware: I don't recall.
Q. So is that a no?
Paul Gongaware: I don't remember doing it.
Q. Ok, so you can't point to a time
Paul Gongaware: I can't remember a time when I did that.
Q. And thatcan you pointcan you point me to one, as you sit here today, when you were
a promoter and were looking for a nutritionist for an artist?
Paul Gongaware: no, I can't remember.
Q. Now, Sir... Somebody was concerned about Mr. Jackson's physical condition as of June 17th,
weren't they, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. AEG Live was concerned about Mr. Jackson's physical condition on June 17th, weren't they,
Sir?
A. We were all concerned about his physical health and wellbeing, yes.
Q. Well, you were concerned enough on the 17th of June that you yourself, the CEO was going
out looking for a therapist and a nutritionist; correct?
A. I was responding to Kenny.
Q. Mr. Ortega, he was kind of the man in charge of everything at the show; right?
A. He was in charge of the creative, yes, with Michael.
Mr. Putnam: and that was changed from, I don't recall writing this email to I don't recall
writing this email, but I did review the text of this email, with my attorneys for my
summary judgment declaration."
Q. So you changed that portion of the testimony; right, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. You remembered that in your head from reading it, and drove over to your lawyers and
changed it; right?
A. I remember discussing it with my lawyers, yes.
Q. But you told me that you read the deposition, took no notes, and you remembered in your
head all the changes, and then you went to the lawyers and told them what changes you needed
to make; right?
A. Yes, Sir.
Q. And that was one of the changes you remembered in your head; right?
A. Yes.
Mr. Panish: continue, please.
Q. Do you recall signing a declaration where you discussed this email?
Paul Gongaware: no
Q. Now, let's go through what you wrote. Is your email paul@concertswest.com?
Paul Gongaware: yes
Q. Ok, sirthe email reads, frank and I have discussed it already, and we have requested a
face-to-face meeting with the doctor, hopefully Monday. Who is frank?
Paul Gongaware: it must have been frank Dileo.
Q. And frank Dileo is at some point was Mr. Jackson's manager?
Paul Gongaware: yes.
Q. Ok and the doctorwho was the doctor in that sentence, a face-to-face meeting with the
doctor'?
Paul Gongaware: Im assuming it was Dr. Murray.
Q. And then it says, 'we want to remind him that it is age, not my who is paying his salary.
In that sentence, where it says age what were you referring to?
Paul Gongaware: I don't remember what I was referring to.
A. Well, when I put everything together and looked at it, my memory did get refreshed in the
sense that I can recall what I was thinking, what was on my mind at the time?
Q. Ok, so after meeting with your lawyers and going over this email for an hour or two, they
were able to refresh your memory about what you meant back on June 9th ... June 14th, 2009; is
that right?
AEG objection: misstates testimony and is argumentative; overruled.
A.. I did come to the conclusions, I think, a lot of it on my own when I read it, and I did
discuss it with my attorneys.
Q. Could you please ... If my question is unclear, I apologize. Let me try again. First of all, when
you spent an hour or two reading this, did you ever change your testimony under oath in this
regard, Sir?
A. No, this was after all that.
Q. Was there some time limit on which you knew you could change your testimony, Sir?
A. I think so.
Q. What was that?
A. After the deposition is set and all the rest of the answers went in.
Q. What was the time limit that you knew that you had to change?
A. I don't know if there was a time limit. I just assumed there was.
Q. Well, did you say, Id like to change my testimony under oath about this?
A. No.
Q. Ok, so what my question was, Sir... Do you know what it means to have your recollection
refreshed?
A. I don't know what specifically you're referring to.
Q. Ok, well do you have an understanding of that term, Sir?
AEG objection: asks for a legal conclusion, your honor; overruled.
A. Um, yeah... To remember things that you ... After you go through them, remember things in
context.
Q. Sir... Did you say, done at 150 after you talked to Dr. Murray?
A. That was an email to Michael Jackson, informing him that the compensation part of the deal
had been discussed.
Q. Well, Sir... Did you say to Dr. Murray, we will pay you 150,000 a month?
A. No, I said that I was authorized to offer him 150,000 a month by the artist.
Q. And did he say he accepts?
A. He accepted.
Q. And then Mr. Woolley was drafting up a contract for AEG Live with Dr. Murray; right?
A. I believe so.
Q. And no one from Michael Jacksons camp was involved in any of the drafting of the
documents, were they, Sir?
AEG objection: lacks foundation; overruled.
A. I don't know who was involved in that.
Q. Ok, but you tasked Mr. Woolley with that responsibility, didn't you, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Ok, now when you say, remind, what does that mean to you, to remind someone of
something, in general?
A. I think it's obvious. To remind them.
Q. To make sure they know; right?
A. To remind them, yes.
Q. And were you concerned that Dr. Murray needed to be reminded of what was expected of him
by AEG?
A. I don't know. I think Dr. Murray knew what his responsibilities were. His responsibility was to
take care of his patient.
Q. Well, then why did you have to remind him, Sir...if you felt dr. Murray knew what his
responsibilities were, then you wrote an email that he needed to be reminded because you
thought he'd forgotten, didn't you, Sir?
A. This email is like shorthand between me and frank and Kenny. I was going through hundreds
of emails a day. And if I would ... You know, I may have ... If I knew lawyers four years later
were picking apart every word, I might have been more careful in choosing my words. But,
essentially, I think what Im saying here is Im referring to Kennys email when Im answering it.
Kenny was talking about a nutritionist, a physical therapist, and those kinds of things, and I think
that's what I was referring to.
Q. Well, Dr. Murray, was he a nutritionist, Sir?
A. I think a doctor should be.
Q. Was Dr. Murray a nutritionist, Sir?
A. I would think that's part of a doctor's training, yes.
Q. But you went to get someone else to be the nutritionist, not Dr. Murray, who had agreed to
accept 150,000 a month; correct?
A. Well, we were looking for one at Kennys request, yes.
Q. Because Dr. Murray wasn't competent to do that, was he, Sir?
A. I would think he was.
Q. But you went and got another one anyway, didn't you, Sir or you tried?
A. I think we looked for one, yes.
Q. Because Kenny Ortega and you didn't feel Dr. Murray was competent to do that job at
150,000 a month, did you, Sir?
AEG objection: lacks foundation; overruled.
A. I certainly feel like Dr. Murray should have been competent to do that.
Q. But you didn't even know anything about his qualifications, did you, Sir?
A. He's a doctor.
Q. You didn't even know what kind of doctor he was, did you, Sir?
A. Nutrition is a basic part of health.
Q. Well, if you've got a doctor you're paying 150,000 a month, I don't understand why you had to
go get another person to be a nutritionist.
AEG objection: lacks foundation, argumentative. That's not a question; sustained.
Q. Could you please tell us, Sir... Why you needed a nutritionist when you had already engaged a
doctor at 150,000 a month?
A. Kenny had asked for one.
Q. Did you say, why do we need one, we have a doctor at 150,000 a month?
A. Yes.
Q. And he's reminding you of something, isn't he, Sir?
A. That's part of what he had to say.
Q. He's reminding you ... And then he goes on to say, were you aware, Paul, that MJs doctor
didn't permit him to attend rehearsal yesterday. Were you aware of that, Sir?
A. No, I wasn't.
Q. You were aware when you got that email, weren't you?
A. Yeah. He made me aware of it.
Q. You read that, didn't you, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. And you were concerned, too, weren't you?
A. Michael didn't like to rehearse. And if he didn't go to rehearsal, that didn't really surprise me.
He didn't go to rehearsals in his history of not rehearsing.
Q. Well, did you tell that to Dr. Murray? Hey, don't worry about it. We know Michael doesn't go
to rehearsals. Did you say that to Dr. Murray or anyone else when you wrote that other email?
A. No.
Q. Did you ... You were having cold sweats every night about this, weren't you, Sir?
A. No, Sir.
Q. You were never having cold sweats about this?
A. No, Sir.
Q. Well, let's take a look, Sir... At this exhibit. You know what a cold sweat is?
A. It's a term.
Q. A. Term you ever used?
A. Yeah.
Q. Who is Carla?
A. Let's see what it says. Ah... Carla is Tim Leiweke's assistant.
Q. The CEO of the company?
A. Yes.
Q. Ok, did you write this email, Sir?
A. I believe I did.
Q. Sir... You were concerned about when the dates the concert was ever going to start; that's what
started these emails, wasn't it, Sir?
AEG objection: lacks foundation, argumentative; overruled.
A. Well, it was about, yeswe were changing some dates at this time.
Q. And you were concerned. You didn't know when the dates were going to be opening night, did
you, Sir?
A. At this time I think we were in discussions in trying to figure it out.
Q. Well, you said, in response to Carla ... Does Carla still work for AEG, Sir?
A. Yes.
Q. Still chat her up?
A. When I can.
Q. What does your girlfriend say about thatyou tell her that and she didn't come here today;
right?
A. Um, I didn't really discuss it with my girlfriend.
Q. Ok, it says, can you confirm confidentially that opening night will now take place December
14
th
. I keep hearing it's the 15th. Tim says the 14th. Did I read that right?
A. Yes.
Q. And then you say, maybe 13th, may be 17th, not 14th. I'll know more this week. Michael
never showed up today so I couldn't discuss it with him. Is that for a rehearsal he didn't show up
for that day, Sir?
AEG objection: misstates what the document states. Judge: which portion of it? AEG:
December.
Mr. Panish: well, if I did say December, I meant to say whatever it says, July.
Q. Did you say, Michael never showed up today?
A. Yes, in the email.
Q. Is that rehearsal again?
A. It would have been a rehearsal, yes.
A. yes.
Q. So you had requested a face-to-face meeting with the doctor, right?
A. I think Frank specifically did it; but I wrote it that way, yes.
Q. You wanted to meet face-to-face with the doctor, didn't you, sir?
A. sure.
Q. Is that a yes?
A. that's a yes.
Q. Ok, and one of the reasons that you wanted to meet with the doctor was to remind him that
AEG was paying him, not Michael Jackson, correct?
A. what I ... What I was really wanting to meet with him about was what Kenny was referring to
in his email, and what I was answering, which was nutritionist, nourishment, vitamins, therapy,
that kind of stuff.
Q. Did Kenny say anything about who was paying the doctor?
A. no.
Q. You wrote that you ... We want to remind the doctor that we're paying his salary, correct?
A. that's what I wrote, but the fact is we would have been paying his salary if Michael would
have instructed us to.
Q. Sir... You wrote ... You wanted to remind him that you were paying his salary, right? Is that
what you wrote?
A. yes.
Q. And would you agree ... Strike that. Do you go to other employees of yours and tell their
doctor that they're not paying them, that you are? Have you ever done that before, sir?
AEG objection: your honor; lacks foundation as to employee.
Judge: I think it's a little unintelligible. Maybe ... Rephrase it.
Q. Ok, why are you telling someone's personal doctor what's expected of them, sir. That's what I
want to know.
A. I never did tell him.
Q. Ok, why are you writing that AEG needs to tell someone's personal doctor what their ...
Expected of them if you weren't controlling the doctor?
A. well, we certainly weren't controlling the doctor.
Q. But you wrote you wanted to tell the doctor what's expected of him who you claim is Michael
Jackson's personal doctor, right?
A. we expected him to take care of his patient.
Q. Why did you need ... Why did he need to know that; was there a problem with Mr. Jackson,
sir?
A. no, not that I know of.
Q. Well, why are you going to remind somebody of what they're supposed to do if there's no
problem and they're doing their job?
A. don't know.
Q. You usually remind people of things when they're not doing it, don't you, sir?
A. sure.
Q. You don't need to remind somebody about something if they're doing it, do you, sir?
A. I don't know.
Q. Do you go around reminding people of what their job duties are when they're doing them?
A. no, not necessarily, no.
Q. When you go remind somebody of something, it's because they're not doing what they're
supposed to; isn't that right, sir?
AEG objection: lacks foundation; overruled.
A. that's a reasonable assumption.
Q. Now, just so Im clear, you told us ... Or me, this morning that after your deposition and all
these meetings, you laid out all the documents, and that refreshed your recollection, right?
A. yes.
Q. But the only documents you reviewed were the ones attached to your deposition, right?
A. yes.
Q. So there were only 20 some exhibits to your deposition, so you didn't take anything new that
you didn't have at your deposition to refresh your recollection, did you, sir?
A. no.
Q. And you didn't ask the lawyers or anyone else for all the other emails and documents to help
you refresh your recollection, did you?
A. well, there were thousands of those; and I wasn't going to get into that.
Q. There were thousands how do you know that, sir?
A. I wrote thousands of emails over the course of this ... Of this job.
Q. Well, sir, you said thousands. You wrote thousands of emails about this is it; is that right, sir?
Because you didn't produce thousands of emails from you.
A. well, it's a guess. I mean ... But quite a few.
Q. Well, how many were there, sir?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Ok, so you don't know ... You didn't ask the lawyers for any documents to review that we
didn't show you at your deposition, did you, sir?
A. those are the ones I wanted to see.
Q. Just the ones at the deposition?
A. yeah.
Q. But if you wanted to know the whole story, you would have asked for more documents,
wouldn't you, sir?
A. if I would have had the time, that would have been a great luxury.
Q. So you're too busy to deal with this is that what you're telling us?
A. no, sir, I don't think Im saying that. I mean, Im taking this very seriously. I'm being sued
for billions of dollars personally.
Q. Billions?
A. billions, yes, sir.
Q. You know that, it's billions?
A. yes, sir.
Q. Ok, how many billions is it, sir?
A. I don't know, but it's billions.
Q. Who told you that?
A. my attorney.
Q. Your attorney?
AEG objection, your honor. Judge: let's not talk about the attorney.
Q. Sir, you know Michael Jackson could have earned billions of dollars, don't you, sir?
A. I don't believe that's the case.
Q. Did you testify that Michael Jackson was going to go on a world tour, and that was the plan,
after this was finished?
A. yeah, but as I recall those numbers and they were very preliminary projections, it was 132
million that he would have earned.
Q. Do you know how much money Michael Jackson could earn in the future, sir?
A. no one could know that.
Q. Ok, so sir, you take this so serious that you never asked to see Dr. Murray's contract, right?
A. that's correct.
Q. And you take it so serious that you didn't ask to see any other documents other than what was
at your deposition because you didn't have time for that. Isn't that what you just told me?
A. yes, sir.
Q. Because you were too busy trying to earn money for AEG than doing preparation for your
deposition; isn't that true, sir?
AEG objection: argumentative and irrelevant, your honor; overruled.
A. I spent as much time as I could prepping.
Q. Because you were too busy working for AEG, right, sir?
A. yes, Im currently on tour with the rolling stones.
Q. So it's more important to you and AEG that you continue to do your job than prepare under
oath to give testimony in this case, correct?
A. I think both are quite important to me.
Q. Ok, but you didn't spend any time, you told us, only two days, and part of two days, to
prepare. Didn't you tell us that, sir?
A. I don't think that's what I said.
Q. You didn't tell us you spent two days preparing for your deposition?
A. I think I said more than that.
Q. Ok, but sir the reason you couldn't spend more time is because you were too busy working
for AEG, right?
A. I was working, yes.
Q. Ok, since you spent more than two days preparing for your deposition, tell us everything you
did for those more than two days you spent preparing.
AEG objection: I object as going into attorney/client privilege. Judge: it may, but I think
you've asked this question before. Mr. Panish: well, I don't want to argue with the court.
Let me rephrase the question.
Q. What was it, sir that let you think that you had the right to tell the doctor to show up to a
meeting, Mr. Jackson's personal doctor?
A. I never told the doctor to show up at a meeting.
Q. Didn't you request that he show up for a meeting?
A. we requested a meeting.
Q. Ok, ok how many other people that you've been promoting concerts for and producing
concerts have you told their doctor to come to a face-to-face meeting?
A. none that I recall.
Q. Did you think you had the right to request Mr. Jackson's doctor ... To demand that he come to
a face-to-face meeting with you?
A. I don't think I could have demanded it. I think requesting a meeting is not out of the order.
Q. Ok, did you tell anyone when you were going to a meeting to bring the doctor with them?
A. I did in one email.
Q. Ok, what gave you the right to tell someone to bring the doctor with them?
A. I don't think I had any right to do that; but his health was going to be discussed at that
meeting, and I thought it appropriate that his doctor be there when all that stuff was being talked
about.
Q. So you could talk to the doctor about his health, right?
A. I wasn't at that meeting.
Q. No.
Sir, you told someone, bring the doctor with you to the meeting, didn't you, sir?
A. yes, I did.
Q. Ok, is that take the doctor ... Is that a suggestion, maybe you should take the doctor, or is that
a command?
A. I don't think it's a command.
Q. Did you ask for Michael Jackson's permission to take the doctor with you?
A. no, I believe Michael was going to be at the meeting.
Q. When you ... Why wasn't he there last nightthat's the doctor, right?
A. that's what I was referring to, yes.
Q. Why is the doctor supposed to be at rehearsal?
A. well, this was talking about they had a problem at the rehearsal that night and ... With
Michael, and he's supposed to be treating his patient. If there's a problem, he should have been
there.
Q. Oh, so the doctor is supposed to be 24/7 on call for 150,000 a month, right?
AEG objection: misstates prior testimony, lacks foundation; overruled if he knows.
A. again, sir?
Q. The doctor is supposed to be 24/7 available to treat Mr. Jackson at 150,000 a month, correct?
AEG objection: lacks foundation; overruled.
A. it appears that Michael was sick that night, so where was the doctor, is my question.
Q. Well, you expected him to be there, right?
A. if hes...
Q. You're controlling him?
A. no, I wasn't controlling him; but if he's sick, that's his patient. Why wouldn't he be there?
Q. Well, why are you telling Mr. Phillips, the CEO, to take the doctor with you to a meeting?
A. the meeting was going to be with Michael and was going to be about ... I guess the illness he
had that night.
Q. But you say take him with you. You didn't say maybe you should call the doctor, see if he's
available, did you?
A. didn't say that.
Q. If you said I would suggest it would be good if the doctor attended this meeting. Wouldn't
that be some suggestion, sir?
AEG objection: argumentative; sustained.
Q. Was Mr. Phillips picking the doctor up in his car, sir?
AEG objection: lacks foundation; overruled.
A. I have no idea.
Q. Well, when you take someone with you, does that suggest to you that you're taking them with
you, like together?
A. it doesn't suggest that to me.
Q. Ok, Dr. Murray, he was in charge of getting Mr. Jackson to rehearsal, wasn't he, sir?
A. he was in charge of Michael Jackson's health and taking care of Michael Jackson.
Q. He was in charge of getting Michael Jackson to rehearsal, wasn't he, sir?
A. I don't believe that's the case.
Q. Ok, did you know that Mr. Woolley told Lloyds of London that Mr. Phillips and Dr. Murray
were in charge of Michael Jackson being at rehearsal?
AEG objection: lacks foundation, misstates the prior document; overruled.
A. well, if Mr. Woolley said that, he was mistaken.
Q. Another mistake that was made. Did Mr. Woolley make a lot of mistakes in this case, sir, to
your knowledge?
A. I don't know specifically what he's talking about. I think it's just trouble that he was having
that day.
Q. The front is the ... The show, isn't it, sir?
A. yes, probably.
Q. And Mr. Hougdahl was at the practice every day, wasn't he, sir. Or rehearsal, as you called it,
right?
A. yes.
Q. And he's someone that you told us yesterday would be very knowledgeable about how Mr.
Jackson was doing, correct?
A. I believe he would be.
Q. Certainly more than you and Mr. Phillips, correct?
A. definitely more than me.
Q. Well, definitely more than Mr. Phillips because he wasn't going to all the rehearsals, either,
was he?
A. he wasn't at all of them.
Q. He wasn't there very often, was he, sir?
A. we'd see him around occasionally, but he wasn't there every day.
Q. And Mr. Hougdahl was writing to you ... Two CEOs, yourself and Mr. Phillips, correct?
A. yes.
Q. And you know what a drama queen is, right?
A. I believe so, yes.
Q. And Mr. Ortega was the man in charge at the scene, acting on behalf of AEG Live, correct?
A. well, he was the director of the show.
Q. He was getting paid by AEG Live, correct?
A. he did get paid by AEG, yes.
Q. His job was to be there every day. You told us that this morning, what his job duties were,
right?
AEG objection: your honor; overruled.
A. his job was to help Michael create the show and execute that.
Q. You mentioned part of his job was to make sure he was okay and healthy, right?
AEG objection: misstates prior testimony; overruled.
A. well, he was ... You know, that's one of the things he was concerned about, yes.
Q. Ok, it was one of his duties?
AEG objection: misstates prior testimony; overruled.
A. one of his concerns was to be concerned about all of those things, including that, yes.
Q. So that's a yes?
A. well, no. I mean, not necessarily. I mean, if ... Ultimately ... What was your question again,
please?
Q. Fair enough, one of the things or duties that Mr. Ortega had was to make sure that Mr.
Jackson was doing okay health wise, correct?
A. he did monitor his health.
Q. Ok, and Mr. Ortega told Bugsy to write this email to you and to Mr. Phillips, the two CEOs,
right?
A. that's what he says.
Q. Ok, well did Mr. Hougdahl ... You consider him to be an honest and trustworthy person, don't
you, sir?
A. I do.
Q. And before this, Mr. Hougdahl was telling you that you should get Michael some brats and
beers and fill him up, right?
A. I dont...
Q. When was the meeting with Dr. Murray after that email on the 14
th
; was it on that Monday, the
16th?
A. I only had one meeting with Dr. Murray, and I don't recall specifically when it was. I think
we talked about that yesterday.
Q. You wrote the email about the meeting with Dr. Murray on a Monday. And we know that
Friday was the 19th, so Monday would have been the 14th, right?
AEG objection: misstates the document. Judge: why don't we show him?
Q. Does your email usually print out the wrong days, sir, to your knowledge, ever?
A. it's usually on.
Q. Ok, if Friday is the 19th, what day is Monday, maybe you could tell me.
A. 15th.
Q. 15th. Very good and you wrote your email on Sunday the 14th, right?
A. um...
Q. What date did you write it on?
A. it was the 14th.
Q. And you say in that email you got a meeting on Monday with the doctor face to face, right?
A. no, it just says it was requested.
Q. For Monday?
A. hopefully on Monday.
Q. Ok, what date was that meeting?
A. I don't know that that meeting ever took place.
Q. Ok, so that email that you sent, nothing happened then, no meetings until the 19th when this
occurred. Is that your testimony?
AEG objection: misstates prior testimony; overruled.
A. well, I only know that I had one meeting with Dr. Murray. I'm just not sure of the date. It
could have been there, I think it was earlier, but there was ... I only had one meeting with him.
Q. What I would like to know is, between the time of your email on June 14th and the time of
this email, trouble at the front, June 19th, can you tell us that there was any meeting with Dr.
Murray?
A. I don't know.
Q. Ok, so now we know that Mr. Jackson was sent home on the 19th without stepping foot on the
stage, correct?
A. that's what Kenny's email said. I was out of town.
Q. I'm just asking you about the email. All right?
A. uh-huh.
Q. Why don't you just read it, what he said to you?
A. Paul, Randy Im not being a drama queen here. Kenny asked me to notify you both. MJ
was sent home without stepping foot onstage. He was a basket case, and Kenny was concerned
he would embarrass himself onstage or worse yet, get hurt. The company is rehearsing right
now, but the doubt is pervasive. Time to circle the wagons.
Q. What does time to circle the wagons mean to you, sir?
A. I don't know.
Q. And Mr. Hougdahl, he was being paid by AEG, correct?
A. yes.
Q. And doubt is pervasive, what does that mean, sir?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Do you know what pervasive means?
A. I think I know what it means. If you want me to explain what it means, Im not sure I could
do that; but I think it means there's a lot of it.
Q. A. lot of it. It's all around. How about that?
A. that's good.
Q. Doubt was all around for the company in the rehearsal about the show. Would that be a fair
reading of that?
A. yeah, ok
Q. And, sir did you respond to that email?
A. no. I was out of town.
Q. Well, you were responding to emails when you were out of town by your ... By your ... What
do you call that a PDA, right. Do you know what that is?
A. I think that's what they used to call them before they called them smart phones.
Q. Ok, did you have one?
A. I had something. I don't remember what it was.
Q. Blackberry?
A. might have been.
Q. Do you have one now?
A. I have an iPhone now.
Q. Ok, but you ... You're the kind of person that ... Your job is 24/7 when you're in this concert
business, right?
A. yes.
Q. And this says you responded via USA mobile; is that like a PDA?
A. it's my mobile phone.
Q. Ok, and can we put the other one up so we can see the timing now. So you get this email
when you're out of town; it's sent to you at about 10:14 in the night?
A. right, and I was back east at a wedding, so it could have come in at...
Q. 1:00 in the morning?
A. yeah.
Q. But you woke up bright and early, 5:59 a.m., right? At least you were up enough to write an
email?
A. probably would have been like 8:59 east coast time.
Q. All right, hold on. Ok, so now we're at 12:36 a.m. And then Mr. Phillips is responding to
that email from Bugsy, right?
A. yes.
Q. And it says Bugsy, I know because I just got Kenny's message on my VM. I assume that
means voicemail.
A. I assume so.
Q. What did he do, when he got there and what happened between him and KO. I assume that
means Mr. Ortega, right?
A. I believe so.
Q. And then Mr. Phillips says I have a meeting with MJ tomorrow morning, which would
probably be June 20th, because this was sent at June 20th at 12:36 a.m., right?
A. yes.
Q. Ok, so he's talking about that same day, later in the morning, he has a ... A. meeting with Mr.
Jackson, correct?
A. I think so, yeah.
Q. Ok, then Mr. Hougdahl responds ... Actually, why don't you read that for us. Because you
received that, right?
A. I was copied.
Q. Is that a yes?
A. yes, sir.
Q. Ok, thank you. If you could read that, please.
A. MJ came out and watched all the pyro demonstration, endorsed all of the effects, then went
into his room and asked Kenny, you aren't going to kill the artist are you? We assumed this was a
reference to pyro, but Kenny said he was shaking and couldn't hold his knife and fork. Kenny
had to cut his food for him before he could eat, and then he had to use his fingers ... I don't know
how much embellishment there is to this, but Kenny said repeatedly that MJ was in no shape to
go onstage. He kept going on and on about how no one was taking responsibility for getting him
ready. We might be getting beyond, damage control here.
Q. Ok, what does damage control mean?
A. I don't know.
Q. Did you ever ask Bugsy, when he says no one is taking responsibility for getting Mr. Jackson
ready, we might be beyond, damage control, what he meant by that?
A. no, I didn't ask him.
Q. That would seem to be somewhat alarming about Mr. Jackson's condition; wouldn't you agree
with me about that, sir?
A. well, Michael had gone through about three months of being great. It sounded to me like he's
sick, he's got something wrong with him.
Q. Three months.so that would be ... May, April and March is three months, right?
A. yeah, he was good in all those months.
Q. So he was rehearsing for three months?
A. started in ... I think it was late march.
Q. Mr. Jackson was not going to rehearsal, was he, sir he was missing many rehearsals and Mr.
Ortega was very concerned, wasn't he, sir?
AEG objection: misstates prior testimony; overruled.
A. he made a lot of rehearsals in those first few weeks, he was there every day.
Q. When he said ... Ok, we'll get there ... We might be getting beyond, dot dot dot, damage
control here that didn't concern you at all?
A. sounded to me Michael was sick, and they were having a meeting in the morning with him, so
I thought that was going to take care of it.
Q. Ok, so as far as you knew ... Just a little flu or something, right?
A. I didn't know what it was, but it sounded like he was sick and I knew they were going to deal
with it in the morning.
Q. Ok, did you respond to that email, let's go to the next email; who responded next?
A. the next one was Randy.
Q. What time did he respond?
A. 1:52 a.m.
Q. Ok, Tim and I are going to see him tomorrow. That's Mr. Leiweke, the CEO of all AEG,
right?
A. I think so.
Q. However, Im not sure what the problem is, chemical or physiological. Did I read that right,
sir?
A. yes.
Q. Does he mention anything about the flu?
A. he doesn't know what the problem is.
Q. Does he mention anything about the flu, sir yes or no?
A. no.
Q. Ok, what is a chemical problem, sir?
A. could be a lot of things. Could be a chemical imbalance.
Q. Chemical imbalance; what's that?
A. I don't know.
Q. Well, you just said it could be a chemical imbalance, you don't even know what that is?
A. chemistry of the body not being in balance.
Q. Ok, how does that happen?
A. I don't know. I'm not a doctor.
Q. Chemical ... What else could it be, sir?
A. I don't know.
Q. You've never heard of chemical dependency, siryou've never heard that term before in
your ...
A. yes, Ive heard that term before.
Q. Ok, what does chemical dependency mean?
A. a dependency on chemicals, possibly drugs.
Q. Prescription drugs could be one thing that's chemical, couldn't it, sir?
A. could be.
Q. So that was one thing that could be reasonably inferred from what Mr. Phillips was stating,
correct?
A. no.
Q. Let's look at the next one. And the next one is your response, right?
A. yes.
Q. And you don't respond and ask any question, you just say take the doctor with you, right?
A. that's what I wrote.
Q. And why wasn't he there last night when Michael had these problems?
A. yeah, if he was sick, why wasn't he there that was the question.
Q. And what did Mr. Phillips tell you?
A. his response was he's not a psychiatrist ... He is not a psychiatrist, so Im not sure how
effective he can be at this point.
Q. Well, let's look at this next exhibit. So Mr. Phillips responds to you and Bugsy only, nothing
was being sent to Mr. Ortega at this time, right?
A. no.
Q. And who was tl24@aegworldwide.com, sir?
A. according to this, it's Tim Leiweke.
Q. And Tim Leiweke is the CEO of all the AEG companies, right?
A. yes.
Q. And so now Mr. Phillips on this situation, that was not concerning you wrote back and ccd
the CEO that reports directly to Mr. Anschutz; isn't that true, sir?
A. I think what he was talking about here is Tim and I are going to see him tomorrow, which
means he and Tim are going to a meeting, so I ... It would seem logical to add him to the chain.
Q. Sir, let's see the email before that where you ... You wrote
A. all right.
Q. Mr. Leiweke on that email?
A. no.
Q. Ok, and thats Mr. Phillips ... Responding to your email, sir?
A. apparently, he is.
Q. And you're saying take the doctor with you, and he responds saying he's not a psychiatrist,
Im not sure how effective he can be at this point. And he now includes the CEO who reports
directly to Mr. Anschutz on these emails, doesn't he, sir?
AEG objection: misstates prior testimony; overruled.
Q. The question is is that true, sir?
A. well, Tim was going to a meeting, so it's logical he would add it.
Q. Is that a yes, sir?
A. ask it again.
AEG objection: your honor; overruled, re-ask the question.
Q. Mr. Phillips, the CEO of AEG Live, includes now the CEO of AEG reporting to Mr. Anschutz
about a problem with Mr. Jackson, and he wasn't on the other emails, was he?
AEG objection; misstates prior testimony, reports directly to; overruled.
A. I don't know who Mr. Leiweke reports to.
Q. Who ... Never mind. This is telling you, at least, a fair understanding is that Dr. Murray is not
able to be effective at this time for Mr. Jackson; isn't that true?
A. no, I think Randy is just stating an opinion.
Q. Ok, it was Randy, the CEOs opinion your boss that he doesn't know how ... Whether Dr.
Murray can be effective at this time, right?
A. he's not sure about it.
Q. He's not sure that this doctor is fit and competent to care for Mr. Jackson at this time five days
before his death, correct?
A. no, I don't think that...
Q. No one ever told you anything about where Dr. Murray was?
A. no.
Q. Because when you asked that question at night, where was Dr. Murray, did anyone tell you
where he was, what he was doing at night and not being there?
A. no.
Q. And you've never heard that ever?
A. no.
Q. And you never sought to find out?
A. no.
Q. Ok, so now this is another email. This is where we talked about Tim and I are going to go
there, right. We discussed this already. Remember?
A. I remember the discussion.
Q. Ok, so let's go up. Don't need to go back over that. All rightnow Mr. Hougdahl gets
involved in responding, right?
A. yes, I believe it's a response to Randy, Im not on it.
Q. Well, you are, because it was forwarded to you, sir.
A. where do I see that?
Q. Right on the top, next email.
A. Im not sure that ... He may have forwarded me ... I don't see that.
Q. It's right there. See that, sir?
A. it's not clear to me that I got this one.
Q. It says forward. Do you see that?
A. ok, got it.
Q. You accept that now?
A. yes, I do.
Q. Ok, so let's go see what ... Tell us what Mr. Hougdahl wrote to your boss and what your boss
forwarded to you when you had no concern about Michael Jackson.
A. my layman's degree tells me that he needs a shrink to get him mentally prepared to get
onstage and a trainer to get him in physical shape. Kobe's should be available. I've watched him
deteriorate in front of my eyes over the last eight weeks. He was able to do multiple 360 spins
back in April. He'd fall on his ass if he tried it now.
Q. This is the man that was viewing Mr. Jackson every day, right?
A. yes.
Q. Who you viewed as trustworthy and honest, right?
A. yes, I believe that's true.
Q. Who you believe is not a drama queen, correct?
A. no, he's not.
Q. Telling it the way it is, right?
A. that's what he's saying.
Q. And he told you, sir within six days of Mr. Jackson's death that Mr. Jackson was
deteriorating in front of his own eyes over an eight week period, didn't he sir?
A. that's what he says.
Q. Did that concern you, sir?
A. they were having a meeting that day to discuss it. That's what I was waiting to see.
Q. My question was, sir, did that concern you at all and your most valuable asset for this concert
was deteriorating in front of someone who you believe was trustworthy and honest and not a
drama queen's own eyes?
A. this email would have reached me after the wedding had already started, I wouldn't have seen
it until after the meeting, so I would have been waiting for the answer of what happened at the
meeting.
Q. You told us you don't know if there was a meeting between June 14th and June 20th. You just
told us that, didn't you?
Q. Did you call Mr. Hougdahl and say, what do you mean what are you talking about?
A. no, I believed all these things were going to be addressed at the meeting on the 20th
Q. So you weren't really concerned about it?
AEG objection: misstates testimony; overruled.
A. it's not a question of concern, it's a question of figuring out what was going on; and I believe
that that meeting that they were going to do with Michael would have shed light on this situation.
Q. Well, sir is it your experience that the flu deteriorates someone over eight weeks?
A. no.
Q. Let's see what Mr. Phillips responded when he forwarded it to you and Mr. Leiweke, the CEO
and other people. Read us what Mr. Phillips said in response to Mr. Hougdahl saying that Mr.
Jackson was deteriorating over eight weeks in front of his own eyes.
A. unfortunately, we're running out of time. That is my biggest fear.
Q. Running out of time, sir what does that mean?
A. I would assume he's referring to the show, getting it up and ready.
Q. Ok, because your job, number one focus, is getting the show on the road, right?
A. yes, sir.
Q. Right and Mr. Phillips, it's important to him that the show go forward, right?
A. it's important to everyone.
Q. You heard that saying, the show must go on?
A. yeah, Ive heard that before.
Q. That's kind of your mind set in these businesses, isn't it?
A. in the live business, yeah, it is.
Q. Concert live business like this, the show must go on, right?
A. it's a saying.
Q. Ok, well, you follow that, don't you, sir that's your job?
A. try to.
Q. And you were trying to do it here, the show must go on, right?
A. yes.
Q. And then Mr. Phillips tells you and the CEO of your company that the ... His biggest fear is
being realized in response to the email where he's told that Michael Jackson is deteriorating in
front of his eyes over eight weeks, correct?
A. could you ask it again? I didnt...
Q. You can ... Yeah. It's probably a bad question. Mr. Phillips, when he says we're running out
of time, that's referring to the show. That's your understanding, right?
A. I believe so.
Q. And his biggest fear was that the show is not going to go as scheduled, wasn't it sir?
A. you'd have to ask him about his fear.
Q. Well, that would be a fair reading of it. Unfortunately, running out of time is referring back
to running out of time as his biggest fear?
A. he may have said that, but I didn't agree with that.
Q. Ok, but that is what he said to you, sir. It said we're running out of time, the show is not
going to go on as scheduled, that's what he was worried about, wasn't he, sir?
A. he was afraid of that, but I wasn't.
Q. Ok, but that was his biggest fear. Your boss's biggest fear was not that Michael Jackson was
deteriorating in front of him over eight weeks, it was that the show won't go on; isn't that right,
sir?
A. that's what he said.
Q. Ok and is that the philosophy at AEG Live, that the show is more important than the artist?
A. no.
AEG objection: vague and ambiguous as to philosophy; overruled.
Q. Because you were asked at your deposition whether you had any policies, you said you didn't
know of any. Do you remember that, sir?
A. I don't remember that.
Q. So you don't know when you first learned of this policy?
A. I don't know.
Q. Is it in writing?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Have you ever heard about it before you came to testify here in court?
A. yeah.
Q. When did you hear about it?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Did anyone from the company ever tell you that, sir?
A. that's how I would have learned it.
Q. Who told that to you from the company, sir?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Now, sir let's look at this next exhibit here...let me show it to you. And, by the way, while
we're doing that, did you have an understanding that Dr. Murray's contract was supposed to begin
on May 1st?
A. I have no idea when his contract was supposed to start.
Q. Well, when you saw him at the home when you were there, you knew that he was treating Mr.
Jackson, correct?
A. as his personal physician.
Q. His personal physician that you were telling to show up to meetings?
A. I don't think we ever told him. We may have requested.
Q. Ok, well his personal physician that you were entering into a written contract with, right?
A. this one says Kazoodi. That ... I may have used that before, yes.
Q. Sir, that's your registered name for emails when you want to have other emails, isn't it, sir?
A. I don't understand the question.
AEG objection
Q. Ok, well let's see if we can refresh your recollection.
AEG: I withdraw the objection if that's his email.
Judge: well, let's find out.
Mr. Panish: oh, it is.
A. yeah, I use that occasionally.
Judge: ok
Q. Ok, you own kazoodi.com, don't you, sir?
A. I think I do.
Q. You don't know, so Mr. Phillips forwarded you the whole email chain at a private unknown
email address that you didn't even know, right. Your lawyer certainly didn't know it and you
didn't, either, did you?
A. I mean, it's not clear to me that this was forwarded ... All this ... The rest of this stuff ... The
one at the top obviously was, but I don't know about the rest of this.
Q. The one at the top is the whole chain, sirKazoodi. What does Kazoodi stand for?
A. I don't know. It's just a name that I thought Id try.
Q. You don't even know what your own name stands for?
A. I kind of like how it sounds.
A. no.
Q. Did you ever do anything to find out what the real problem was?
A. well, there was a meeting going to be happening the next day which I think would have
addressed what the problem was, and I would have known from that.
Q. Did you do anything to find out what the real problem was, sir?
A. no, I waited for the results of the meeting.
Q. So the answer is you did nothing?
A. no, I waited.
Q. Ok, fair enough. When you saw there's a real problem, you just waited?
A. to see what was going to happen in the meeting the next day, yes.
Q. Ok, and then the next email is back from Mr. Leiweke, the CEO, to Mr. Phillips. And what
does he say?
A. He says, let's set up a time for you and me to meet with him. I want Kenny in the meeting, as
well.
Q. So is that an instruction that Mr. Leiweke is giving?
A. I believe it is.
Q. And who are they going to meet with?
A. I believe they want to meet with Michael.
Q. And the doctor?
A. it says ... I believe its Michael.
Q. Did Mr. Leiweke ever meet with Mr. Jackson?
A. I know of one time he did.
Q. Ok, in the month of June?
A. I don't know whether ... In June, whether he met with him or not.
Q. Did he meet with Mr. Jackson and Mr. Anschutz together, Mr. Leiweke?
A. yes, there was a meeting.
Q. And Mr. Anschutz and Mr. Leiweke flew in a private plane to Las Vegas to meet with Mr.
Jackson to talk to him about doing the show, didn't they, sir?
A. I have no idea how they got there.
Q. Does Mr. Anschutz fly on commercial jets, to your knowledge, sir?
A. no, I don't believe he does; but I don't know how they get there. They may have been there
for the Kings game.
Q. So did they drive to Las Vegas?
A. you'd have to ask...
AEG objection: lacks foundation, your honor.
Q. Did they take a bus with the team?
Judge: sustained, lacks foundation.
Q. Bad question, Im sorry. The team doesn't take a bus, either.the team flies on a charter, don't
they, sir?
AEG objection: again, your honor, lacks foundation, irrelevant. Judge: irrelevant,
sustained.
Q. Lets just stick with this. Now, sirlet's go back to Mr. Leiweke and he wants Mr. Ortega at
that meeting, doesn't he?
A. that's what he says here.
Q. Well, he usually says what he means, doesn't he?
A. yeah, I believe so.
Q. By the way, he's not with the company anymore, is he sir?
A. no.
Q. And Frank Dileo, Mr. Jackson's manager, was already in London, wasn't he?
A. no, I don't think so.
Q. We will bring her back A.S.A.P. And Frank, too. Where were they going to bring Frank back
from, sir?
A. I think he was gone that weekend, the same as I was; but I don't believe he was in London.
Q. Ok, he was out of town, but AEG was going to bring him back, right?
A. that's what he's saying.
Q. A.S.A.P., that means as soon as possible, right?
A. I think so, yeah.
Q. But Mr. Phillips was worried that there was only a short time. And what Id like to know is,
sir a short time to what?
A. I wouldn't agree with him. We were probably three and a half weeks away from our first
show, and that's ... To me, that's still a lot of time.
Q. It was a short time until Mr. Jackson died, wasn't it, sir?
A. it was.
Mr. Panish: ok, lets go to the next one.
Judge: before we go to the next one, let's take a 15-minute break.
Break
Q. Ok, this is Mr. Phillips. We talked about this already ... Remember right before the break, we
were discussing this, the short time thing, right?
A. yes, sir.
Q. Do you refer to yourself sometimes as Mr. Kazoodi?
A. no, sir.
Q. Rudy Kazoodi that was a TV show, your nickname?
A. yes.
Q. And the theme song was the boy who brought everyone joy, the man who made everyone feel
grand, wasn't it, sir?
A. I don't ... It was before my time. Obviously, not before yours.
Q. I just looked it up on the internet because I was interested. And somebody that brings
everyone joy ... Were you bringing everyone joy in college for some reason, sir?
A. no, no.
Q. You weren't ... Ok, lets look at the next email. Ok, and now we have Mr. Ortega again writing
to Mr. Phillips and basically saying that he's waiting for instructions, right?
A. yes.
Q. And he's telling Mr. Phillips, five days before Mr. Jackson's death, that he doesn't think
Michael is ready for this based on his continued physical weakening and deepening emotional
state, right?
A. that's what he says.
Q. Did you talk to Mr. Ortega about this, sir?
A. no.
Q. Mr. Ortega was there every day with Mr. Jackson when he was there, right?
A. yes.
Q. Would you think he'd be in a good position to assess how Mr. Jackson was doing physically
and emotionally?
A. he was the closest man to him, that's right.
Q. So that's a yes?
A. yes, he'd be in a good position.
Q. And then he talks about this HBO concert that had to be cancelled. It says it's reminiscent of
what Karen ... I think that's Ms. Faye ... Bush ... I forgot his ... Michael, might be. Do you know
who Mr. Bush is?
Q. I think the very best thing we can do is get a top psychiatrist in to evaluate him A.S.A.P. It's
like there are two people there, one deep inside trying to hold on to what he has and still can be
and not wanting us to guilt him, the other...
Judge: quit. Quit him...
Mr. Panish: quit him. You're right, Im sorry. The other in this weakened and troubled
state. I am doing my best to be objective, offering as an intelligent observation as I can
being his friend and concerned adult.
Q. Was it your understanding that Mr. Ortega was being objective, but he was concerned?
A. Kenny was always concerned, yes.
Q. And he was objective, wasn't he, sir?
A. he is an artist, so objectivity is filtered through that.
Q. So, in other words, artists aren't objective is that what you're saying, sir?
A. artists see things differently than normal people.
Q. And so artists aren't normal people, then right?
A. they're special people. Let's put it that way.
Q. Well, do you treat artists as special people or as not-normal people?
A. I think they are special.
Q. Ok, you don't refer to them by derogatory names and things like that, do you?
A. no.
Q. That wouldn't be right, would it?
A. no.
Q. And then I honestly felt if I had encouraged or allowed him onstage last night, he could have
hurt himself. Was that concerning to you, sir?
A. like I said, I think I got all these at one time and I was waiting to see what the results of the
meeting would be.
Q. And then it says I believe we need professional guidance in this matter. Kenny. Right?
A. that's what he says.
Q. Ok, but sir Mr. Ortega ... Would you agree with me if you're reading that, certainly seems
like someone crying out to do something for Mr. Jackson out of serious concern?
A. yeah, he's obviously concerned.
Q. Seriously concerned, isn't he, sir?
A. seems to be.
Q. And do you know how AEG handled Mr. Ortega's serious concerns?
A. I mean, I think I do. They ... After this, they had a meeting with Michael.
Q. Lets see how Mr. Phillips handled this on June 20th, five days before Michael died. Ok and
here's Mr. Phillips, to Kenny. It says Kenny, it's critical that neither you, I nor anyone around
this show become amateur psychiatrists or physicians. Did I read that right?
A. yes, sir.
Q. Then he goes on to say, I had a lengthy conversation with Dr. Murray, who I am gaining
immense respect for as I get to deal with him more. Do you know when that conversation
occurred, sir?
A. no.
Q. Do you know where that occurred?
A. no, I believe the meeting was at Michael's house and if he's referring to that, that's where it
would have occurred.
Q. Ok, well my question was do you know?
A. don't know for sure.
Q. Did you know that Mr. Phillips had a long telephone conversation with Dr. Murray around
this time, sir?
A. no.
Q. He never told you that?
A. no.
Q. He said that Michael is not only physically equipped to perform and that discouraging him to
will hasten his decline ... Hasten his decline. Does that mean that he's declining?
A. that's what Randy is writing.
Q. Right, in other words, as of June 20th, Mr. Phillips acknowledges that Mr. Jackson is
declining, doesn't he, sir?
A. that's what he writes here.
Q. And, sir the meeting with Dr. Murray, Mr. Ortega was at that meeting, wasn't he, sir?
A. I wasn't at the meeting.
Q. Ok, but you just told us that Mr. Ortega and Mr. Phillips were at a meeting with Dr. Murray.
Didn't you tell us that, sir?
A. I believe ... I know Randy was there and I believe Kenny was there.
Q. Ok, but this email sir is at 1:48. Is that a.m., sir?
A. 13:48 would be p.m.
Q. P.m. Ok, so if Mr. Ortega was at the meeting, Mr. Phillips wouldn't have to tell him what the
doctor said, would he?
A. don't know. You can't tell from this if the meeting had happened yet.
Q. Well, he said I had a lengthy conversation with Dr. Murray. He doesn't say you and I had a
conversation, does he?
A. no.
Q. But he does say, that Dr. Murray has told him that Mr. Jackson is declining, didn't he?
A. he says that, according ... According to Dr. Murray, if I read this correctly, that Michael was
not only physically equipped to perform, and that ... This is really small.
Q. Discouraging him too, will hasten his decline instead of stopping it, right?
A. right.
Q. So he was in a decline five days before he died, wasn't he admitted by his doctor and told to
the CEO of your company, according to your CEO?
A. it also says he's physically equipped to perform.
Q. We'll get to that, sir. The doctor told your CEO that this artist, Mr. Jackson, was in a decline,
right?
A. that's ... I guess that's what he says here, yes.
Q. And then Dr. Murray said he's mentally able to do and was speaking to me from the house
where he had spent the morning with MJ, so that indicates that Mr. Phillips was on the telephone
with Dr. Murray, doesn't it, sir?
A. seems to.
Q. Fair reading of that?
A. seems to say that.
Q. Then he says ... This is to Mr. Ortega, the person that's really concerned. He says this doctor,
Dr. Murray, is extremely successful. We check everyone out. Did I read that right, sir?
A. yes.
Q. Ok, who checked out Dr. Murray?
A. I don't know.
Q. It wasn't you, was it?
A. I relied on Michael's recommendation.
Q. Did you check Dr. Murray out, sir?
A. no further than Michael's recommendation.
Q. Ok, did Mr. Phillips, to your knowledge, check Dr. Murray out?
A. I don't know if he did or not.
Q. Did Mr. Woolley check Dr. Murray out?
A. I don't know.
Q. Can you name a single person from AEG did Mr. Leiweke check Dr. Murray out?
A. I don't know.
Q. Can you name a single person from AEG that checked out Dr. Murray?
A. I don't know if anyone did or not. I don't have any ... I don't know that.
Q. Ok, it says we check everyone out. That's AEG that he's referring to as the CEO, right?
A. I believe it is.
Q. We check everyone out and then he goes on to say ... And I assume he's referring to the
doctor, he doesn't need this gig. Did I read that right?
A. yes.
Q. And gig means the job as the doctor, correct?
A. I think that's what he's referring to.
Q. Ok, and when someone doesn't need the gig that means they don't need the money, right, sir?
A. I don't know what it means in that way, but it says he doesn't need the gig.
Q. Well, did ... Did you ask Mr. Phillips, what did you do to check out Dr. Murray?
A. no.
Q. Did you ever learn that Dr. Murray was extremely successful?
A. I didn't know anything about him.
Q. Ok, did you ever know that Dr. Murray was in serious financial debt when you reached your
agreement for 150,000 a month?
A. no.
Q. Well, if somebody doesn't need the gig, wouldn't that suggest to you that they're financially
stable?
A. or that they have other work.
Q. Ok, well, if they have other work, then they'd be financially stable, wouldn't they, sir?
A. I don't know. It's an assumption.
Q. Is that a fair assumption, sir?
A. I thought it was.
Q. And do you think an ethical and unbiased doctor would demand $5 million to treat one
patient, sir?
A. in a business sense, I could understand him trying to get what he could. I don't think that
necessarily reflects on his ethics.
Q. So someone's demanding $5 million to treat one patient, that doesn't raise any concern to you
that they might be biased or unethical is that your testimony, sir?
A. yeah, with Michael Jackson, it's like everyone thought that Michael Jackson had all the money
in the world, and they could ask for whatever they wanted. In putting the tour together, I dealt
with that every day. It wasn't unusual for me to see people asking for way too much money.
Q. Well, way too much ... I mean, you cut him down by 3.5 million, right?
A. if he was working ten months, it would be 3.5
Q. And then ... This is all being written to Mr. Ortega, who's raising all these concerns about Mr.
Jackson, right?
A. yes, it's to Kenny.
Q. And then he says it is critical that we surround mike with love and support and listen to how
he wants to get ready for July 13th. You cannot imagine the harm and ramification of stopping
this show now. Did I read that right, sir?
A. yes.
Q. Mr. Phillips was concerned about the harm and ramifications of stopping the show, wasn't he,
sir?
A. yeah, the harm and ramifications, there would have been some to AEG, but it would have
been very serious to Michael.
Q. Dying is a lot more serious than stopping a show, isn't it, sir?
A. yeah, Id say that.
Q. Mr. Phillips is more concerned about the show being stopped, isn't he, sir?
A. I don't get that from this.
Q. Does he say anything about he's got no worries about Michael Jackson ... Well, strike that. He
knows that Michael Jackson is in declining health when he writes this and says you can't imagine
the harm and ramifications of stopping the show now, doesn't he, sir?
A. and he's going to go meet with him that day to sort it out.
Q. Can you answer my question, please?
A. again, please?
Q. When he writes this and says you can't imagine the harm and ramification of stopping this
show now, he knows, the CEO, that Michael Jackson is in declining health, doesn't he, sir?
A. he ... His doctors told him that
Q. Is that a yes?
A. he ... His doctor has told him he's physically equipped to perform and that he does discuss a
decline.
Q. Sir, my question was, when Mr. Phillips wrote this email to Kenny, trouble at the front, he
knew that Mr. Jackson's physical condition was in a decline, correct?
A. and he also knew that he was physically equipped to perform.
Q. Can you answer my question, Sir. When Mr. Phillips wrote this email, he knew that Michael
Jackson's physical condition was in a decline based on what his doctor told him?
A. based on what his doctor told him.
Q. Is that right, sir?
A. yes, sir.
Q. And he knew that from what Mr. Hougdahl said, how he saw him declining in front of his
very own eyes over eight weeks, correct?
A. yes, sir, Bugsy said that.
Q. And he knew that Kenny Ortega said that he didn't think he was physically equipped to
perform both physically and emotionally, didn't he, sir?
A. yes, that's why they were having a meeting to sort this out and find out what was going on.
Q. And then he knew that Mr. Phillips himself that he didn't know whether the problem was
chemical or physiological, right?
A. that's why they were having the meeting.
Q. Is that a yes, sir?
A. that's why they were having the meeting, yes, sir.
Q. And then he said I can far outweigh calling the game in the seventh inning. I'm not just
talking about AEG's interests here but the myriad of stuff and lawsuits surrounding or swirling
around MJ that I crisis manage every day and also his wellbeing. I'm meeting with him today at
4:00 at the forum. Did they ever have a meeting at the forum, sir?
A. I believe they had a meeting, but I don't know what time.
Q. There was no meeting at the forum, was there, sir?
A. I don't know where it was. I was out of town.
Q. Did you ever ask Mr. Phillips, where was the meeting?
A. no; but I did talk to him and he said that the meeting went well. But where it was ... I wasn't
concerned where it was. It didn't matter.
Q. And then he says, enough alarms have sounded. It's time to put out the fire, not burn the
building down. Did I read that right, sir?
A. yes.
Q. So he's telling Mr. Ortega, hey don't worry anymore, don't raise concerns, it's all going to
be ok, we check everyone out, the doctor doesn't need this gig, he's totally unbiased and ethical,
right?
A. that's what he says.
Q. That wasn't true, was it, sir?
A. I had no reason to doubt it.
Q. The doctor ... You don't know anything about Dr. Murray having serious financial problems?
A. no.
Q. Never heard that before today?
A. no.
Q. And you don't know anything about Dr. Murray's background, his qualifications, his licensing.
You don't know anything about that, right?
A. no, I just knew he was Michael's doctor.
Q. I understand that, sir. You've told me that a number of times. But Michael's doctor who you
were having a written contract with AEG, right?
A. yes.
Q. Michael's doctor who you negotiated a price for him to go on the tour, right?
A. yes.
Q. Michael's doctor who you were telling Mr. Phillips to take him to a meeting with, right?
A. same doctor.
Q. And, sir, let's look at this one where Mr. Phillips, sends this to Mr. Ortega, let's see what he
did next. He then writes ... He forwards all these emails to you at your private email, Mr.
Leiweke at his private email and Mr. Dileo at his private email, correct?
A. it appears so.
Q. And he says this guy, Mr. Ortega, is really starting to concern me. Did I read that right, sir?
A. I don't see Mr. Ortega in there.
Q. Did he forward you any emails from anyone that talked about the physical condition, other
than Bugsy and Mr. Ortega?
A. no.
Q. Did you ask him, who are you concerned about?
A. no, I didn't ask him.
Q. Ok, so if it was Michael Jackson, like you say then he was seriously concerned about
Michael Jackson's health five days before he died, right?
A. he ... He's concerned about somebody.
Q. Well, wait a minute. You said it could be Michael Jackson, right?
A. could be.
Q. So let's read it your way. Mr. Phillips is CEO, is really concerned about Michael Jackson's
health, right?
A. starting to concern him, yes.
Q. Yeah
A. and there's a meeting later on in the day to try to figure it out, to discuss it.
Q. Ok, really starting to concern him?
A. that's what it says.
Q. So do you think it was Michael Jackson or Kenny Ortega, sir?
A. I can't tell from this.
Q. Ok, but you never asked him, who he was referring to...
A. no.
Q. Did you, sir?
A. no, I was at a family wedding.
Q. Well, did you come back from the wedding at some point?
A. yes.
Q. Did you come back the next day, on Sunday?
A. I have no idea.
Q. Can you name a single other one, sir?
A. couldn't. I don't know.
Q. Well, sir in this case, did you produce your emails from your private email?
A. produced everything I had.
Q. Ok, well sir, this ... This wasn't produced by you, was it?
A. I don't know who this was produced by.
Q. Now, Mr. Branca, do you know who he is, sir?
A. John Branca, he was Michael's attorney, one of them.
Q. Now let me ... Let me show you an exhibit. This is two days after the 20th of June, three days
before Michael Jackson died, right?
A. yes.
Q. And, again this is Bugsy, even has it in his name, production manager, Michael Jackson,
slash, AEG Live, right?
A. yes.
Q. And this is about docu people, right?
A. he would be referring to our two cameramen.
Q. And those were cameramen that were going around filming things, right?
A. yes.
Q. And further into our earlier email. What did you say in the earlier email, sir do you
remember?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Well, you would talk to him about whether to have cameras there or not have cameras, right?
A. right, some of the time we had the cameramen editing and they wouldn't show up. Michael
wasn't going to be there on this day.
Q. But it says here let's keep our two docu people out of here today. Does it say anything about
them going to edit?
A. no.
Q. It says let's keep them out of here unless they stay in the dressing room area only. Did I read
that right?
A. yes.
Q. And why were the ... Why did you want the docu people to stay in the dressing room only, sir?
A. I don't know. This was coming from Bugsy.
Q. Did you respond to this, sir?
A. I don't recall.
Q. So ... So when the documentary people were coming and not coming, you were the one in
charge of that, weren't you, sir?
A. yes.
Q. You were controlling their access, weren't you, sir?
A. I kind of just gave them free rein; but for some reason, Bugsy didn't want them there. That's
fine with me if he didn't. Michael wasn't going to be there anyway.
Q. Sir, Michael was sick at this time, wasn't he?
A. I don't know that. He showed up the next day, he was great.
Q. You didn't even see rehearsal the next day, did you, sir?
A. no, but I got reports.
Q. You got reports from Mr. Phillips, right?
A. no, from people like Bugsy and the crew.
Q. Do you have any emails from Bugsy where he said Mr. Jackson is no longer deteriorating in
front of my eyes?
A. no, I wouldn't have anything like that because my desk was right next to Bugsys, I keep my
offices in the production office.
Q. But he sent emails, you received emails from him before and you received this email?
A. that's why I was in ... I was out of town at the time.
Q. You were back by the 22nd, sir. You told us you came back the night before.
A. yes, this was at 7:30 at night.
Q. Right.
A. I may not have been there at this time.
Q. You got home Sunday night, you just told us.
A. yeah, and I would have been at the rehearsal that day; but whether I stayed that late or not, I
don't know.
Q. Well, you just told us he doesn't send you emails because your office is right next to him,
right?
A. not normally.
Q. But Ive just shown you all kinds of email that he was sending to you.
A. the emails that you showed me was when I was out of town.
Q. Were you out of town here, sir?
A. no, but I may have left the rehearsal by then.
Q. Do you know what time the rehearsal started that day, sir?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Have you seen the schedule for what time the rehearsals started at the ... Where was the
rehearsal going on this date, the 22nd?
A. on the 22nd, we were in staples center. Maybe we were just moving in at that time. I'm not
sure.
Q. What time were the rehearsals at staples center, sir?
A. they varied, Kenny set the times.
Q. What times were they at?
A. on 6/22, there may not have been a rehearsal. That may ... I have to look at the schedule. It
might have been a, move in day.
Q. Didn't you just tell me that you may have already left the rehearsal?
A. I may have, yeah. Especially if it was a moving day, I wouldn't have stayed all night.
Q. But you just told us now there was no rehearsal, so what is it?
A. no, I didn't say ... I don't know if there was or not. I'd have to see if this was a rehearsal day
or a, move in, day because it's right on that cusp.
Q. Well, how would you know that you left a rehearsal that you don't know if it ever happened?
A. leaving the building, perhaps?
Q. Well ... You just told us, sir that you may have already left the rehearsal and then you tell
me you don't even know if there was a rehearsal.
A. that's right.
Q. So what is it you left early or you don't know if there was one?
A. Id have to see the schedule to know if this is a, move in day, or what we actually did that day.
Q. But if there was a rehearsal, you left, right?
A. I don't know. I don't recall for sure, but that seems like a logical explanation to me, if he's
sending me an email, because normally I sat next to him.
Q. All right, sir. Where was Michael at this time?
A. I don't know.
Q. All right. Let's talk about the 24th, because you know you have at least watched one song,
right?
A. yes.
Q. And on the 24th, sir all you could tell us is that Michael was fully engaged, correct?
Judge: why don't we do this? Let's let the jury go out and we can talk about this outside
their presence. Ok, so Im going to let you go home today, and ask that you return at 9:45
tomorrow.