VOLUME XIV
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTR
EASTERN DISTRICT OF
VlfcGINI
Alexandria Divisio
X- ------____---__-----x
-vs- CRIMINAL
ACTION NO. 88-
243-A
Defendants.
X- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
Alexandria, Virginia
BEFORE:
APPEARANCES:
'J H
***
DON McCOY, RPR
OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
683-3668
2
Page 2 of 248
conspiracy.
activity.
about the time alleged. Second, that the defendant that you then
9 least one of the overt acts, and that the overt act was
11 conspiracy.
17
21
4'
Page 4 of 248
controlling."
I will remind the jury that the crimes charged in this case
the future. I will tell them about the charts and summaries
missing-evidence instruction.
Government, I believe.
only briefly.
Mr. Ro s s i.
THE COURT: B?
moment.
meets the -~
I believe, is —
corresponding instruction.
publication,
also from case law, and Section 119 of the Code itself.
and the fact that the IRS uses this language in the
between --
lodging. They say that the meals and lodging must be — this
that, and there are cases and even a portion of the regula-
the lodging are also excludable. So it's wrong. It's just not
10
6 from the case law, the regs and the IRS publication.
two, three as the Government has done it, which it 9 has aspects that
13
660, which says you don't use such a strict 16 test. I think the
17 test was one of absolute necessity, and the Court said no,
IS
24
11
Honor.
crime."
defendant is guilty
12
under the mail fraud. Those would be the counts under which
But they --
13
LaRouche.
Honor.
our
14
right on appeal.
joist on one narrow point in light of the fact that Your Honor
of an oral —
first.
15
point.
16
frankly what the Court did in that case was weigh all the
compensa tion, to make up for the fact that they didn't have
test, and I think that case rather clearly sets that out.
17
where they seek to limit that and say that an employer only
their paragraph 3.
said?
13
2 with —
4 your No. 3.
22 excludable.
1'9
Mr. Robinson?
the case law says that. It is true that compensation can be,
than compensation.
business purpose.
20
paragraph 3.
proposed Instruction c.
briefly on their —
21
Yepez when he talked about it. And the change was not for
Mr. Spannaus about it, and the reason why it was changed is
when --
22
relevant.
with it.
knew nothing about at that point in time the terms that were
loans.
to do with it.
23
give it.
me.
24
6 the same thing. I don't know whether they are talking about a
13
14
IS charge.
23
25 certainly don't think that the defense has been misled in any
25
discretion to amend.
this point.
2b
overt actr not being involved, excuse me, with Ms. Sexton was
as to those counts,
Mr. Anderson?
27
Page 26 of 248
Your Honor.
evidence?
I don't know whether the Court has a copy of the chart or not.
have a clean copy. Maybe you all do. The Government took the
28
Page 27 of 248
point out to the Court that all of the tax returns are in
29
30
able to them information upon which this chart was based, and
the fact is that the returns were not prepared until 1987,
Page 29 of 248
which is not true. The issue in this case, Your Honor, as you
and the disregard, and they are going to move that back to
the 1985 time frame, and they are going to use this chart to
31
aren't they — you don't suggest they are not the same
received in evidence.
notes, and —
32
19 excellent.
33
1 as follows:)
12 it?
15 I make the decisions and Will Wertz carries them out, some-
17 don't contest something along those lines was said by her but
22 Will Wertz was doing in New York. Mr. LaRouche said what
3"4
the part of the quote where she said Mr. LaRouche told her the
joined and therefore it was their job to spend the money and his
MR. MARKHAM: But that's not all that was said on that
subject.
money to carry out his policies. People have become more stupid.
35
closing argument.
find it —
there.
testimony about it, whatever the food it was that Helga's dog
3'6
memoranda —
Helga's dog was eating boned chicken, someone was eating dog
food.
right?
1985.
37
them until 1987, So they weren't signed until then but they
returns then?
The returns that were filed were not the final copy Grant
38
are at the Bench: I have both the Peruvian and the Venezuelan
and •86-
39
bank records*
that.
evidence. We rest.
Page 38 of 248
40
defendant to testify?
tially went along with all of your redactions with one or two
at first.
anything else?
41
another witness —
witness.
the expert.
said. And the fact the Government cross examined and there
was a potential access but the Government has made the argu-
42
held:)
43
briefly.
evidence.)
Hintz
44
LaRouche, as I understand.
45
1
Court and counsel, out of hearing of the jury, and
2
reported as follows:)
3
MR. ROSSI: Your Honor, Mr. Robinson has indicated
4
me he would like to play the portions of the tape of the
5 Boston Grand Jury testimony of Mr. LaRoucher those portions
6
that relate to the same portions of the transcript that the
7
Government has admitted in evidence. I have requested and he
8
is opposed and therefore we are bringing it to the Court,
9
that those portions only be played in context and what has
10
happened is I have introduced portions of the Grand Jury
n testimony of Mr. LaRouche which include the Government's
12
portions and additional portions either before or after that
13
portion, and those are now in evidence as part of what I
14
just introduced. I would object to him playing his portions
15
out of context leaving us to later play our portions out of
16
context. I think the whole thing should be played at once.
20 a playing, the jury is going to have it. They can read it.
21
The Government can argue what they want to argue, and we can
46
argument now.
14 fairness.
last line.
Page 45 of 248
47
paragraph?
vague recollection --
to be referred to.
Your Honor.
held:)
I mean 10:00. Then you will get the case for deliberations.
48
Page 46 of 248
the jury box. The three of you in the front are for the
box. This case, and you sitting in the jury box, is for the
credit you wish to give them for the ideas that they were
want
43
Page 47 of 248
to do.
people want to give money for the most noble cause in the
the rest of them say they can't give it, they need it, it's
theirs, but they are willing to lend it, then you cannot
you.
referenced chart.)
50
That's fine.
back into the jury room, and you will see that by March of
1985 the man who was then responsible for trying to manage
LaRouche and Mr. Wertz and Mr. Rose. Mr. LaRouche, the
on Ibykus farm.
That memo in March of 1985 by Wayne Hintz says,
51
1 1984, that big orange column there, was the year of the loan.
3 expert's chart says $12 million, but the Wayne Hintz■ memo
primary memo, set forth their concerns about people who had
knew they had problems with the 1984 skyrocketing. They kept
very small portion of the unrepaid loans that you are looking
at up there.
52
would ask if the Marshal could put up the second chart that
they prepared.
referenced chart.)
see that from the time Will Wertz was placed in charge of
like a cliff than anything else. You will also see that they
have on that same graph put in their loan repayments, and that
'85 was
53
included not only money actually given back but the amount
that the policy would be that once the loans were received
Page 51 of 248
due and asked to forgive. Not one of the victims that you
heard from, not one, said that when they were initially
called and asked for loans that they were told about this
forgiveness policy. Not one of them said that they were told
back.
54
were asking for the loans. They were just given a false,
picture has changed. Oh, well, now, let me tell you a few
every day in early 1985, asking for money. She got over
$100,000. When it was gone, when there was nothing left, she
asked her to go and borrow from the bank. When the bank
Page 52 of 248
Sexton and said, "Forget the bank loan. They are becoming
hindsight she should have asked, but the law of mail fraud,
sophisticated banks.
55
Audry Carter.
with the third crime. The third crime is the charge that he
two: the first is that all of the defendants are charged with
they got a briefing through the mail and they picked up those
phones and they started with the rosy promises that if you
give us your money, you will be repaid. And it went on, and
it went on past the point when they all knew that there were
problems of repayments.
56
conduct.
14
IS years after this mess, "Audry, don't worry about it. I know
19 your interest means a lot to you, but not even our enemies
2
you are not allowed, you are simply not allowed under this
57
get repaid on time. People are lining up. Why the book
stances with which all of. the defendants are aware, were
made
barn is on fire, and I don't tell him, and I know it, I have
Page 55 of 248
don't even look out the window to see whether it's burning,
did and precisely why you have two orange towers on the chart
money back,
read
58
the letters that they wrote. I will not read all of them,
you were the only one that I have had financial dealings
investment house. You said the more money I would lend CDI,
59
would make."
borrowing the money and as you know, when the bank became too
she cried.11
Elizabeth Sexton wished she had cried before she took every
she wrote Mr. LaRouche and said, "Are you aware that CDI
60
became due.
he explains that it's his enemies that got him down and they
couldn't pay and since 1984 we have been under attack and
by CDT."
61
auditor, the one who worked with their expert, the one that
15-0, which you will have, is, it's got both a yellow and a
nice woman in Connecticut that they can't even pay her back a
dime of her money, not all of it, not a dime, not so much as
repayments
Page 59 of 248
62
him, then all bets are off. If people make a loan under those
been informed of it. But none of these people were told about
it. And even if they were, what bogeyman coming to get Mr.
items. That money wasn't theirs. That money was the people
that you heard from, and the many, many, many other people up
Page 60 of 248
for the
63
$8,000.
until they could pay it off. But they paid off $900,000 to
from all these expenses that I have read, just to get it*
It's acres and acres and acres. in fact, only one of which
farmland would have gone a long way towards paying back some
arrogance about how right they are and about how wrong
everybody else is, and people don't deserve their money, and
it's ours, not theirs, because we are saving the world; and
6'4
doing.
with your own money. But if you are doing it at a time that
these nice people who trusted you are waiting by a phone that
Where is my money?"
65
I have to, I will come to the Bench now and tell you what
it means.
Objection sustained.
particular point.
66
a minute ago■is only related to the Count XIII, the tax count and
the case.
yesterday; you have heard from Charlie Tate. You have heard from
Mr. Bardwell. You have heard from Mr. Yepez. You have heard from
from the stand, when a couple of people from New York were at Mr.
LaRouche's home performing one of the many seranades for him, they
had flown down to do that. They had flown down with money I suppose
that Mrs. Sexton would have wanted to have back rather than to have
Mr. LaRouche have a concern, but that aside for the moment, Pam
Cowdery and some others said, look, do you know what Wertz is doing
67
It's not good* And Mr. LaRouche said, Will is doing what he
about the guest house? Those are funds that would have been
68
Fine with their money, but not with his, with hers.
principal was due, the principal that she said she needed to
live on. This is now long since she has ever had an interest
quoting — "I will pass the letter along to GDI for their
shows the very arrogance that the former members talked about
when they said that Mr. LaRouche would exhort them to use any
casualties."
that
Page 66 of 248
69
that was going to happen. Going in, they simply said, "You
this record that shows that they knew when they were calling
these people about the bad financial situation and the loans
when they made the representations that they made, over the
to. look out the window to see if the barn is back on fire
for the fifth time this year, because had they looked, they
reckless And given what they had put in their own memoranda,
70
Page 67 of 248
further the scheme. You have heard that there were many,
evidence.
scheme.
that is
71
the
when there were swimming pools being built and all the rest
the false statements to the lenders that you heard from. For
one
72
who actually goes over and drops the letter in the mailbox.
mailings. And you will see when you go through the counts
with which lender, because it's all listed there on one page.
there were more loans taken in that just those specific notes
73
include the massive year of the loan, $10 million that Wayne
Hintz tried to warn them about. The similar figure for 1985,
this in motion.
quotas at a time when they had been told the loans were not
rate that they were bringing them in. The first priority was,
and pressing and pressing for the very acts that occurred
abetting is --
74
meeting, read them Paton,. told them this was a war footing,
told them that Lyn's life depended on it, told them that they
had to raise this money because Lyn said the money had to be
were doing it because Will Wertz had said that was a fine
idea, and Will Wertz was their manager and he controlled them
it has to be set up, and you don't have to take just Mr.
75
that.
about, the testimony is that he writes down what Lyn says and what
to what Lyn has said. He refers to Lyn as Lyn. You have heard
MR. MARKHAM: Well, we'll have that for you when you go
the upper left-hand corner and the testimony was that that is
for LHL." And this is in June after the plan had been in effect
76
You can read it.. You will read it. It's been
of the page.
the day, at least it's not the first entry, Mr. Spannaus
about the loans, what each of the witnesses who took the
with
11
which the form that he devised was used to make the false promises
to the lenders. You remember that Mr. Yepez went to Mr. Spannaus
and talked about a new loan form, and Mr. Spannaus said no, we -
think that we are in the business of making loans, which they were
12 hear that Mr. Spannaus, or you heard that Mr. Spannaus went
15 problem, devised a form which was used, and every single time
25
made a profit except EIR. " He wrote that, and so he knew
78
that.
that they weren't paying back loans, and they are marked, and
think he is?"
that they were making, given the financial situation, but the
79
her, and it involves her lenders. She had been told by Mr.
assurances.
stand and said they received from these solicitors who were
Wertz.
80
be played.)
but Mr. Spannaus, the evidence is, didn't tell that lawyer
repay and then sent, had the organization use that form in
evidence.
That1s not a problem. I hear you saying that you really need
to imply that our loans are not good. Wayne Hintz had
81
it. The complaints were coming in. Will Wertz was screening
interest back.
a lie.
group of people who just think thatthey are better and can
Page 78 of 248
One moment.
to consult.
II through XII.
82
understanding,
that's what they did, and that is what they didn't tell
people.
there has to be, and the Judge will tell you more about
Page 79 of 248
legal.
understanding
83
back in, that they were to be screened and all the rest of
it
phone are overt acts. The letters that went to and from are
you.
84
friends, et cetera."
time. This shows that she knew people had not been getting
85
money."
getting more payment out of this guy. And he wrote that memo
Page 82 of 248
over the telephone. And that memo proves it. The other memo
Chris Curtis
86
told us about that. He said they just made that up. They made up
figures that they used over the telephone. They just made up
weren't the books published when the people loaned the money in
money from the books? How come nobody got repaid? That was Dennis
Small's specialty, and like Mr. Markham said, those contact cards
from Martha Van Sickle in one shot on one day. Remember how much
you have heard about the loan ceiling in this case? Remember how
was a limit to how much debt they could bring in. Well, Dennis
Small almost doubled that ceiling in one day. He knew that loan
87
know how much money he made. We don't know what his income
gone into evidence that you haven't heard yet. Let me just
A I don't know.
88
Q Where does the money come from which pays for your
A Yes.
A At the house.
A Yes.
A No.
A Not to my knowledge.
A I don't know.
A I don't know.
A I don't know.
Page 85 of 248
A I don' t know."
"Q Who paid for the suit you are wearing, Mr. LaRouche?
89
of the lawyer.
you?
ten years.
closet?
have some general idea that they are gifts from people
that he did. Rick Magraw bought his suits with money from
Page 86 of 248
to hide all
90
had income.
that resulted from that that the expert witness was looking
incomplete records that Mr. Magraw and his wife kept, but we
they asked him where his clothing came from and who paid for
distance himself from it. That was all part of the scheme to
is enough to
91
don't even have to get into Ibykus Farm and the housing and
hide it.
But let's talk about the housing and the meals for
just a second. Mr. Markham went into great detail about how
him. The Judge is going to instruct you on what the law says
about that. And what the law says is that under certain
employee.
to him.
Page 88 of 248
9-2
can't just decide not to pay somebody's salary and give him
clear that what this organization did, what Mr. LaRouche and
normal person gets, for doing things like writing books. And
when he Was asked about it, you have heard the testimony, he
little of them there are. They don't show how much money went
his money.
Page 89 of 248
93
reason he could have been doing that, and that was because
94
Page 90 of 248
look at when you get back in the jury room. These are some
Ibykus Farm. You will see right up here it says, "Title," and
those of you who have ever tried to read what was under
the light just right, you can see what it says underneath
Ibykus. Somebody whited that out and put VIP over that.
paid for LaRouche. They whited out what little records there
were. 20-S the same way. Exactly the same thing happened.
95
LaRouche by the IRS asking him where his tax return was,
return.
that he had given them, but that's not the only evidence
Lyndon LaRouche asking him about his tax returns. You can
infer from that that Lyndon LaRouche knew that the IRS had
written to him asking him about his tax returns. You heard
from the IRS witness that they never got a response back
to that.
Mr. LaRouche has been open and up front about his status,
the final
96
changed my mind.
represent a man, flesh and blood, not a they, not a them, not an
am not going to back down on that. I am not going to run from it,
97
put in a card of all the money that Dennis Small raised- And
Page 93 of 248
they told you it was all loans. They just told you it was
stances were such at that very moment we could not pay back
the loan.
in the United States. Not here. So when you think about it,
98
with him.
What did they tell you? That Mr. LaRouche says that
the means. And he has imparted that and they have all lost
their free will and it's a mob running around under the
orders of this man. That's what they are telling you, that
about.
99'
Does that mean at the time that you borrowed the money that
you didn't believe that you were going to grow? Or that your
dreams were not going to come true? Because that is what they
are selling here. They are selling that there was debt at the
may not agree with it, and I don't ask you to agree with
it. I don't agree with it. But that's not important. They
through the
100
have heard about SELA. You have heard about Mr. Richard
Morris. You have heard that they had the best private
where does Dennis Small fit into this program? Who is Dennis
propaganda that you just heard about Dennis Small? Think back
same thing for a living that I do. Use your common sense. He
101
Let's talk about what Dennis Small did and what the
evidence is, not what their wish list was, because what you
not one witness that said that. There is simply not one
witness that said that. What they said was that Dennis
he come here not to tell you the truth? Look at Martha Van
102
Martha Van Sickle? It was for a conference that she went to,
that she observed, and that she said the expenses for were
reasonable.
evidence,
here that she knew she was taking a risk. She knew she was
mean that they never intended to be, because you see in order
to prove the scheme, you have got to prove that when they
Does that make any sense? Think about it. That the whole
intended.
reports
ro3
here, because they were being watched. The Kissinger letter, Dear
Bill, to the head of the FBI. How many American citizens can
Dear Bill letter? Can you do it? Can I do it? I suggest not- They
that table. They are not crazy, and they are not foolish. But I
think with respect to Dennis Small, you must ask yourself, did he
preparation of those
104
and
Dennis Small. No one was telling him the story. He was living
it. He was personally living it. He was the person who was
question, did you ever meet with Dennis Small? He met with
Page 100 of 248
Small talked about the war on drugs, this was not something
he did and what was going on, it wasn't because he had been
there.
105
and if they are bad ideas, then the fact that they are out
important thing here is, can the dreamers dream? Can the
even the wealthy borrow money. Even those who can finance
the fact
106
Robinson stood up and asked you why Dope, Inc* wasn't printed
means that both sides agreed, and this is the kind of thing
it. Go back and read it and you will understand why we have
are here.
107
the jury that he was raising money in 1984 and '85 and '86,
preparing his testimony with Mr. Markham over there, why did
necessary to spend five more hours with him between now and
108
interviewed him. Those were his words. Those were his words
in good faith, and he told the police that the first time he
it"s changed.
doing when they were raising the money. The most important
10 9
originally.
his chair over here, because look at Goodwill Post. Who raised
that money? Who closed that deal? Who said that every loan that
was made with Goodwill Post closed the deal? Who said it? Chris
chair.
series, those are the Goodwill Post letters. Who are they written
to? Who made out the letter of indebtedness and who was CC on
every document coming from the finance office? Not Dennis Small.
Christopher Curtis.
farm. She had dinner at Mr. LaRouche's house and didn't speak to
him. He didn't speak to her. They ignored one another. She was
taken around and shown the facilities. She was taken to Mr. Small's
office and given a briefing. And she was requested to lend money by
Page 105 of 248
said no. No. So four days later, Chris Curtis called her on the
phone and asked her again, and that's when the loan was given, at
the
110
4 drugs was not the reason she gave the money, because she did
17 Mr. Small, Look at the check. I will give you the exhibit
18 number. It's 36-QQQ. The check says two years, and that
20
21 one they were actually charging him with. But look at the
Page 106 of 248
25 either of those two events about when that loan was going to
Ill
why.
reason Chris Curtis was. They both had spent their early
in what he was doing when he was doing it, the debt watches,
could not be paid back. There is not a loan in this case that
organization.
112
Small? Did they say that they talked to Dennis Small and
told him that the loans were not going to be repaid? They
was not on the phone. He was not your average solicitor. And
who was on the front line and ask that person to talk to
something wrong?
on that front line? What did he feel? What was told to Martha
Van Sickle, and what did she remember? She remembered that
risked his life. This man believed. But he didn't believe out
113
They came here from Latin America to tell you that he told
he tried his best, his best, his physical best to make those
case. I am sure all of you will recall that when you first
Page 109 of 248
114
what we were doing. Not only the Government but the defense
were going through each of. your names and your addresses and
trying to find out who we. wanted and who we thought were the
you were chosen, all stood up and the Clerk asked you,
will you truly try and a true deliverance make between the
faith that you jurors would do that. And you are special
special
ris
Page 110 of 248
to be guilty and the only thing the jury or the judge has to
doubt.
one
116
Page 111 of 248
that you will abide by those and you will abide by the
am about to say, and what all the other lawyers are about
from the exhibits, and from what the testimony was on the
case
117
charged in.
NCLC, and they have said, ladies and gentlemen, that during
bankruptcy.
substantive
118
indictment.
1985. And the specific loan that she was supposed to have
days, back in the late 60's, and developed and grew somewhat
by those black pillars there, you will see that from 1979
growth in
119
these two loans that she solicited. And it's at that time
with regard to these specific loans that we have to, that you
what her, what was in her mind at that time and whether she
these loans that she solicited from Mrs. Landegger and Mrs.
you can't go in there and read their mind, and you can't
December
120
her mind. Mind you, you have got to be able to say before you
doubt that ~this is what was in her mind at that time, when
was in this organization early on. She came into the organiza
tion in the 70's, that she grew with the organization, that
she was out there, and she did various things for the organi-
they run candidates for office, but they publish books, they
They do all sorts of things that you have heard about in this
121
funds for Mr. LaRouche when he ran for the presidency. That
raised money for; or if they got into a crisis and they had
There was a regional office out on the West Cost. There was
22
23
24
25
122
Page 117 of 248
this chart, you will notice that from back in 1979 — I guess
'84, and you follow that black line, you will notice that
although there are ups and downs in the black line, from the
testified about. There were these little news things that you
on the situation with money, and the deal, and you can assume
123
dealing with various people, not only these two women, but
of that exhibit* And they have a reason for not telling you
124
face of it. I want everyone when you get back there in the
and you read it for yourself and see if she wrote it, as Mr.
well, she either wrote it or she heard it. Or she got it.
."
evidence on the face of this that she got that letter; and
the Government is doing their utmost not only one of them but
both
125
of them got up here and tried to convince you that she knew
about that and that she wrote it or that she got a copy of
it,
out there that weren't getting paid. She had her lenders and
people that she dealt with who obviously at times were not
getting paid.
regional office, and she knows that some of her lenders and
some of the people who she is dealing with from the regions
may not be getting paid on time or may need money and she
of '84. And Hintz stays there up the line from the regions.
1-26
2 into evidence based upon you know what's coming up from all
6 going on all over the country that Hintz does, because Hintz
14 these loans could be paid. That was what was in his mind-
18 doesn't have that overview, they are coming here, and they
19 are telling you that you ought to convict her. You ought to
25 Mr. Williams.
127
have done was at that time to have the knowledge and to quit
1986.
and you see how that income was coming in, and you examined
this case from her perspective. You have to because the law
her mind at that time she solicited these loans, that the
only conclusion you can come to is that she did not know,
and she
1-2 8
Mrs. Landegger.
The evidence shows that they were — they came in or they came
summer place in Maine. She ran into some people from the NCLC
she ran into them and ,she got a subscription to one of the
from various persons, and they briefed her on what was going
almost every day. Almost every day but at least every other
woman. You saw her testify on the witness stand. You look at
people and you can tell how sophisticated they are. I mean,
129
on the witness stand; and how they basically act. And just
telling you the truth or not, not only by what they say to
evaluation/ and you see how the loans progressed and how she
conclusion that she knew what was going on, that she
turn against the organization? She goes out and hires some
130
they are getting. And she keeps lending money to the organi-
the clear inference is, that when the Illinois primary was
won in March of 1986, and when all these press articles hit
about how crazy this bunch of people were, who had won these
newspapers about who she has been lending this money to. If
the
131
time she solicited these loans. Can you say beyond a reason-
able doubt that you have an abiding belief that she misrepre-
sented these people, that she lied to these people, that she
I don't like to miss lunch, and I haven't used all the time
that the Court has allotted me, but I would like to say just
a few final words. After this trial is over, and after you
Page 126 of 248
upon the evidence, and after you have applied the rules that
you will render your verdict and you will go home and six
months from now you will, you know, will have more or less
live with this for the rest of their lives. They are going to
live with this case for the rest of their lives. And I, like
have done my best, and I hope I have laid out the evidence on
132
ments, I made the statement to you that I was last and also
charged
13 3
the proof here, because not all the things originally placed in
point out to you that in Count II, the count against Mrs. Powers,
that Mr. Spannaus is not charged and that in Counts III through
this case. It's that point I want you to focus on for a moment
with me.
Mrs, Powers is in June of '85, almost two years after the original
134
IS and require him to stand trial here as he has over the past month?
22 Hintz, the Government witness, was that at the time there was a
24
25
135
might be appropriate.
right at the end of the case and clarify that matter for
form.
136
his attention a legal problem and he went out and secured it-
there are other reasons he is here and I 'am sure you will
about.
lengthy letter which you have not seen but you are welcome to
look at when you get back there, informed the recipients who
virtually disrupted.
that you have had no testimony that that is not true. Namely,
137
payments.
have heard about and all who have testified before you testi-
138
for not paying back their political loans which they have
the names of Hart and Glenn are those that come to mind
immediately.
basis for including Mr. Spannaus, they have put that May 15
1-39
no.
such evidence except the Government may argue that the use
140
2 one for each of you as you sit and deliberate, and I suggest
5 issue here.
141
system since it was being put into place by people who are
matter.
growing from time to time as they were on the stand. You did
hear from Mr. Tate, for example, with all his venom against
the entity and his motives, whatever they may be, for saying
what he said. You did hear him say that Ed had had — he had
1"42
was not contained in the 302 report* I remember Your Honor asked
witnesses, to this event, that he was the only one, and moreover,
made.
143
committee, about which you have heard some things, that mere
members. :
the course of the cross examination here, which was the size
are brought before you today. But you have heard the names
raising who are not before you today, who are part of the
Page 138 of 248
144
here And those of course include Mr. Phau or Mr. Papert, and
they were also members of the NEC and it's clear that it
these charges against my client, and I urge you when you get
are saying Ed Spannaus was responsible for and what they are
saying he was not responsible for/ because you can read into
over in detail does lay out a lot of things that others they
allege were responsible for, but does not include him in the
allegation there.
145
fraud charges.
have ever heard of. Usually these types of things involve hit
around, as Mr. Williams told you and you heard from the
86.
offices down
Page 140 of 248
146
found, and the people can be found there. They are not people
who are running, and they are not people that are hiding.
fraud, one would hardly leave the kind of paper trail that
that they might have had. And you heard Mr. Yepez, I believe
147
tions and the sales in this matter that they needed more and
to recover all the figures, and they didn't have the total
problems?
these people had intended a great scam, why didn't they bail
out at that point? Why didn't they just fold up the tent,
and walk away from it? They stayed to try to cure it. And
148
shouldn't have taken as many loans as they did. But you saw
there were many years before when there weren't, and when
It's killing us. But the next line is that 60£ of income is
of
14'9
publications so that you can see the total reach and range of what
they were.
Page 143 of 248
lifeblood and that loans were bad, and that contributions were
these publications and through the sale of them. That's what they
page 43, "Hit 400 slant WK, in sales.", A reasonable person might
13 1,000 NS subs and 1,000 NDPC memberships." This was the program
15 turn into '86 with the policy is mass sales. That's at 7-T, page
16 250.
17 Cost cutting comes into play, perhaps you might say late
21
22
23
24
25
150
cutting expenses.
to judge it.
they do and what they owe, and if people would stay out of
151
ideas and their thoughts, and that not all of them are going
-- you can call Mr. Morganroth a supporter, but you had Mr.
Government.
152
that they came from all walks of life and corners of the
his support for the entity from Oklahoma. You had Mrs.
Page 146 of 248
about his support for the entity. You had some witnesses
General Scheer (phonetic), you had Dr. Seale. You had people
which is that while these might not be your ideas, that they
153
movement?
tax case where they don't charge you with any specific viola-
doesn't have a face because they won't tell you the amount.
and said, by the way, I think you owe us some money. Why
don't you tell us some facts, and let us sort this out.
154
what's happening here, why you single out Ed, why you heap
on, pile on as the NFL would call it, a bogus tax case.
activities —■
am. trying
155
You can see the books that this organisation has put out on
the last page here. There are quite a few. There are 50
Government.
which our country has drifted away. But whatever you think
another with
156
You heard
157
obnoxious.
Page 151 of 248
Attorney General.
158
mouth.
Page 152 of 248
an exhibit?
it," fine.
159
that there were those people who were coming to him who were
organization.
staff who were drawn from among other agencies, the CIA,
does in its
160
3 its lifeblood.
5 isn't ironic that we are here, and I urge you in your duties
11 Thank you
13 lunch.
161
AFTERNOON SESSION
Wednesday, December 14,
1988 3 o.'clock p.m.
162
the fact that they are here, or the fact that a number of
163
not only for their political support, but vitally for their
language.
say it.
164
average. It is us.
their
165
suspect that at least maybe you agree with some of it. Maybe
you agree with the war on drugs, and don't agree with the
not you agree. And an idea without action is not very useful.
oif our social and economic and other forms. Without that
course, with
166
our lives,
am not going to get into naming names. You can search for
commitment. They work far harder than one might expect. They
be vital and important social issues. And for that, and from
heard how they live. Is there any among you who would trade
a night out with the ability to walk your dog down the
167
indictment.
16 was all about in the first place. This is the LaRouche case.
168
them into Court and the means are incidental. And that is
in this Courtroom,
been
Page 162 of 248
169
directions.
that view. They want to go out and break the back of the
had been attacks in the past, there had been adverse media in
the past, there had been lawsuits in the past, there had been
fact that they expected that something like that might happen
170
2 And even if it did, I think you can, from the very fact of
4 can conclude that they had optimism that they would be able
8 put them up there. You have seen them. You are going to
9 have them in the jury room. You can draw what conclusions
12 tations. You have heard from the person who put them
171
1
Page 164 of 248
14
20
were participating in their respective capacities -- I think
25
tasks. Others pitched in and helped in various areas at
172
Page 165 of 248
have suggested.
Government, wanted them to do* Which was fold the tent and
walk away.
ocean and was under attack, there really are two options,
You can do whatever you can do to keep the ship afloat and
that it goes down with all hands. If it goes down with all
hands, everybody loses, because the "all hands" are not only
and would have meant at any period of time that if the ship
irrevocably everything that they had put into it. And they
173
you heard from that you can draw the inference that most of
those persons who lent money were not the same as those who
recognized to whom they were lending it, and that there were
on. The war which this organization not only believed they
174
5 that was the first commitment. Now, there were other things paid
for. No question
8 what was paid and when, but I am not going to suggest that
JO Those were the expenses paid to keep the ship going. You
17 capacity?
175
time.
led.
against
176
the witness stand was that his total amount of contact with
round out his days and week and months and years as he is,
when he didn't need to. I mean he had no — and you are going
to have the letters. You can read her letters to him, and
177
Mrs, Sexton write those letters and who wrote those? The FBI
wrote that second letter- Her lawyers and the FBI. She was
Draw your own conclusion as to what was going on. But Mr.
LaRouche responded.
gentlemen that she didn't know who they were while Mrs.
178
they were freedom fighters. Now, whether you agree with that
179
you don't charge the President, not unless you have the
new pool in. And he exhorts his supporters to go out and try
to raise funds for the new pool. One of the persons who is
raising funds goes and does something wrong. Is the boys' club
course not unless you take the bizarre construction that the
bizarre connection.
case.
doing it, if you find, if you agree with me that they are.
you they had told me they were going to play you a tape, in
rso
get lost, but one of the witnesses told you who Elizabeth
Rose
181
182
tell you that. Why didn't they tell you the truth about it?
you from the indictment, and this was the sequence. "Was
Page 175 of 248
Yes.
No.
No.
I don't know."
Then he stopped. He wanted to create an impression
1*83
But what he didn't read you, ladies and gentlemen, and you will
have the indictment. Test your memories, was the last line in
detail."
tell you the context in which these statements were made, how many
which is the second letter -- read the letter. They suggested that
Mr. LaRouche says, let your conscience be your guide or some such
Page 176 of 248
the letter to him that she is going to take him to Court and report
184
have been open and on the. public record for essentially the
when someone declares openly that they have not filed and
have not paid, what does that say about a conspiracy? Just
of the way LaRouche lives and the way he functions and the
reasons for
185
supported, but now he had two basis and you are going to
up, but in any event, it's never filed. As you heard from
the expert
1-86
witness, it should not have been. It would have been the wrong
situation continues.
saw Murray Altman and that certain people had lingering concerns
pretty strange. It looks pretty strange, you know. What did they
say? There are two things certain, death and taxes. Most of us or
heard from — you heard what those attorneys had to say on that
account. You heard from the expert witness, Mr. Seay. And he told
Now — and he also said, you know, I'm not saying it's
right or wrong. I am just saying it's the case. That's what the
I'm not sure of the date but I think it was '84. It might have
Doubrowsky, Mr. Doubrowsky, who was the head of the Detroit office
Thornton might
187
opinion, and in fact you heard Mr. Seay say that if during
come to his office and asked him for his opinion as to those
does not live the way most people live, under the circum-
stances most people live, and the Internal Revenue Code was
Mr. Seay
Page 180 of 248
188
told you that the — you .know, you take, this was the square
whatever that was all about, and the odd or different circum-
projects and that his, you know, he writes, for the reasons
Kronberg that in her view — what does she know? She doesn't
our principal author. I mean, that's how she views it. But
And Mr. Seay told you that in fact the only reason-
able category in the Internal Revenue Code that the facts fit
They
Page 181 of 248
189
told you, gave you some song and dance about we didn't know
charge an honest tax count, one that we could have met with
That's the same thing that they have wrapped and rewrapped
190
Page 182 of 248
can get a firm grip on where they don't ask you to deal with
facts. They want you to deal with some type of feeling they
decide garbage.
dignify it. You hear it from Charlie Tate. All right, now,
common sense. Charlie Tate was the guy who wanted to turn a
that some of that venom might spill into the jury box and
fatal.
25 you are on the outside than if you are on the inside. And
191
Page 183 of 248
group, and this is language that they are familiar with. But
What does that mean? The Government wants to put OIXQ cast on
responsible for it. Well, in fact what does that mean if you
192
think about it? Just take the words — I went through this
way. Go out and work for it. We are not going to get
purpose.
193
was
exaggeration.
wasn't
13
there, but that was his feeling.
20
what we are all about. We want to get the word out. Let's
25 Because that's not the way. Loans were not the best way on
194
Page 186 of 248
that he doesn't know. He has spent hours and hours and hours
were they? Were they something you know and how much
195
Who knows what it means? Who knows what the context is?
want to tell you what it means. You can draw your own
jury box. It's your common sense and not the Government's
draw from the facts that are yours. But — am I still within
Honor please?
196
object of concealment.
Page 188 of 248
are trying to cover up. It's silly. It's worse than silly.
It's not a civil case. Mrs. Sexton has not to date been
mean, you know there is a lot of money hanging out there -But
the issue is, you know, she could have brought a civil suit
evidence. You just don't know. But that's another issue for a
persons who didn't get their money back. And you can't make
your decision based on that. You can't feel, you can't decide
and the question is, no one feels good about that. You can't
197
things they have worked so many years for are at stake here,
badly that these — they did not create the situation which
Page 189 of 248
And the fact that they are not paid today should not be a
back yet.
occasion didn't come from the outside. But was the rotting
noses.
198
reported as follows:)
morning?
did not say that. That is not what I said. I would like to
200
entire lives to fighting for truths and ideals that they hold
that."'
this case.
199
1 of that.
down, one thing occurs to me, and that is that this case is
18 and convincing you that people were loaned money and didn't
19 get paid back. That's all they have proved, and that's all
20 that they have argued. They spent four weeks proving it and
201
see it fail.
importantly, this case is about not money but it's about the
time that these people solicited the loans that you have
heard about over the last month, that they did so without the
to you that seven out of 350, who have and I'll repeat the
words and I'll probably repeat them more than you want to
entire
2UZ
who they have won over to their side, that they would steal
don1t know what the figure is, but I will say thousands of
Do it. Don't replace Kr_ Yepez with Mr. Hints and thereby
replace him with a computer so that you can figure out how
Don't
203
spend all that money. You have got it in your pocket. Why
supposed to be?
absolutely sure that they weren't going to get away with it.
They have been around since 1970. They have gone out of
their way to tell each and every lender, eaLch and every
supporter and everybody else who would listen who they are
organization what you see is exactly what you have got. You
enemies1 backyard.
204
Curtis.
fundraiser in this case except for the fact that Chris Curtis
quit, that Chris Curtis walked away from his obligation. You
have all heard that over and over again. Well, Bill Moffitt
agents
205
3 sculpted and that he sat up there and told you something that
11 context of this entire case and I use him -- you saw what he had
12 to say and the way he said it. You saw what Charlie Tate had to
13 say and the way he said it, I put this to you: what Chris Curtis
15 than what the current members of the NCLC had to say who were
Page 197 of 248
19 said, yes, I loaned some money and I would sure like to have it
20 back. I think that the issues that this organization support are
23 is doing, despite all of the stuff I have heard and despite what
24 the
25
206
Government has told me and despite the fact that these people
Charlie Tate. It goes deeper than that with Chris Curtis. And
again, the question is why. Again, the example that I will use
this cause as any of the seven people that are sitting back
going to do.
each and every person who takes that route, it requires some
real
207
said when he was being asked even about the loans that are the
are in about the 14th or 15th hour of any given day sitting
in that anthill working for what you believe in, every now
and then you have got to ask yourself, what am I doing here?
beach? Why don't I get a regular job and, you know, get a
what Chris Curtis, think about what Charlie Tate must have
gone through when they made the decision to give it up. They
walked away from it. The job is still undone. The organization
are walking away from it, getting a job drawing cartoons for
you really have to convince yourself that you have made the
right move.
suggest
208
1 to you each and everyone of us has about the same amount of time
2 on this earth and unless Chris Curtis and Charlie Tate can
3 convince themselves that leaving was the right thing to do, they
7 thing you can call somebody, but I do know that Chris Curtis
13 him and said words to the effect, do you remember telling Mr.
16 solicitation efforts?
18 words.
21 Later on, the same day, Bill asked him, not about a
23 about a statement he had made under oath. And the question — Bill
25
20'9
oath in Boston. The question that Bill read to him was, "I am
talking about solicitors per se. The phone team solicitors per se
Billington would fall on the sword and that he had the personality
of a missionary?"
"1 may have said that. I just don't recall specifically. I don't
the stand, was confronted with that same statement and said
210
what I think this case is really about and that is not what
did Chris Curtis and Charlie Tate know but it was what did
who was in charge, took oyer from Mr. Yepez, and was in
211
was really bummed out, that's when Wayne Hintz came to hear
about it. And you will see a bunch of memos that he wrote
very instructive.
more
would suggest to you that Wayne Hintz probably took the most
and doom list that Wayne Hintz had? You know, these people
other on Wayne Hintz' doom and gloom list, and you have
Page 203 of 248
That's the man from Oklahoma who got up there and said yes,
I loaned money
212
1 for the house and Jbykus and I did all this other stuff, and they
2 were paying me this money every month and asked himr were you
7 best example of the fact that these people didn't have any
fraudulent intent at all when they were soliciting loans. They had
S
Wayne Hintz running around like the chicken with no head trying to
9
24
Page 204 of 248
25
213
tion that was made included the fact, look, we are not a
said. Dorothy Powers took notes, yes, SDI and the New
know, that they made a big point. Were you told your loan,
you might be asked to forgive it? Were you told you might be
214
warfare? Did they tell you this, that and the other thing?
wasn't watching the barn burn down. What he was doing was
now except for a few planks that the Government has jerked
215
apt to this case, and that is what we said over and over and
stock market, you know, they lock up all the stockbrokers and
they ask you to put your money in the stock market That buys
proposition. I think each and every person who loaned you know
you take your money out of your money market that's making 9
percent and you give it to somebody who calls you on the phone
That's not smart business, and I think each and every lender
case. And that analogy is the United States Army. And those
listened to all those ads about why you ought to join the
Army, I know I did. I found out you could join the Army if
you wanted to see the world. I found out you could join the
216
Page 207 of 248
out you could join the Army if you wanted to learn a trade.
my face shot off? No, Because I knew what the Army was all
his battle there, he will fight it. He will survive it. And
Let's talk about them. Let's talk about them right now. Did
217
Audrey Carter. Did it seem weird to you that they played the
3 weird to me. There was a reason for that. Keep in mind that
19 was talking to her and trying to find out why she had backed
22 testified from the stand that the FBI agent showed up and
raising money
218
s
from Audrey Carter on the tape that it played to you. It1
Page 209 of 248
not true.
Now, what Mike told her was, hey, look, we are not
true. Then they say, well Wayne Hintz said it, Wayne Hintz
hadn't run — They are talking about their enemies. What Mike
personally. But they have never said our loans aren't good.
to play you the other tape. Maybe you will forget about
219
play that for you. They play you another tape that has
February 20th, 1986 when Audrey Carter calls to ask about her
have exhibits in the file that tell you what she was calling
about. She made two loans, one on November 12th, 1985 and one
to complain and the tape that they played you, Mike says
okay, 1 hadn't heard from you. I didn't know if you had the
220
1 payment. She got the payments. She got the payments. She got the
2 checks in the file. You have got the testimony from Audrey
5 of r86. You have heard more evidence than you need to heard. But
Page 211 of 248
7 mind reader. Mike Billington can't see into the future. That's not
10 snippets that the Government gives us. You have got to look at the
11 whole picture.
13 was soliciting loans, what did he know when he was making the
15 EIR. He knew about debt watch. He knew about Fusion Energy. He knew
17 subscriber lists that were making money. He knew about the Latin
18 American contacts that Sylvia Bruda told you about. He knew about
20 about the contacts that that contract had engendered with Latin
22 growing
221
military.
to Ms. Powers, Ms. Carter and Witt that you have heard about,
until the spring of 1986, those ladies were all paid. Maybe a
they all got their first interest payments. It was down the
IS
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
222
are about stealing, you don't just steal loans- You steal
like to sell you something. Would you like one? And you get
somebody to want one, and they say okay, send it, I'll send a
check- You get the check. You don't sent the magazine. What
not what they were all about. They were about spreading their
was owed a lot of money; still is. She loaned $30,000. She
of two things. You can just keep the money and hope nobody
223
it is because they are not dishonest. What they did was wrote
the check and put it in the mail along with a letter saying,
doesn't let this happen. You can only give $1,000. You gave
9
us $1,500. Here is your money back. Thank you very much.
10
The next question is, what didn't Mike Billington
II
know, what could he have not foreseen when he was soliciting
12
the loans that are the subject of this case? I know it's
13
Christinas time and it reminds me of the song, you have
14
heard it so many times, so many different ways, I am almost
15
reluctant to repeat it to you again, but harassment by the
16
Government borne out by the Kissinger letter, the FBI
17
involvement, speaking directly to people that are their most
IS
ardent supporters as borne out by Audrey Carter, the
19
immediate reaction to the Illinois primary, the October 1986
20
raid that decimated the organization's records, and finally,
21
I guess sort of the death knell at this point is the
22
involuntary bankruptcy that has prevented them from repaying
23
loans-
24
25
224
loans.
address to you, and it's one that I hope I have the words to
who the president of Peru was until this case started. Why
225
that a big deal? I don't care about that* What I want to do, I
Page 216 of 248
to go on my vacation,
And what might seen like a little victory to you, you know, a
rules. They are playing on their home court and what might
something you have never heard of, it's what it's all about
Thank you.
22.
jury, the lenders in this case were wronged, and as between the
lenders deserve all the sympathy in the world, and these people
deserve none. The lenders lost money. And it sure wasn't their
Page 217 of 248
Now, for you to find that criminal wrong, and find that
Will Wertz or anybody else was a part of it, you have got to go
finding the wrong and finding that Will Wertz or anybody else was
involved. And that thought process and the fact that you would
227
And we all brag about it. And the fundamental thing that
be
228
sit back and say "Government, you have got to prove it;
money loss and this were a civil case, he could be stuck with
our system says when that kind of thing, that kind of power-
evident
22 9
thing, that indeed there was a wrong here, and that my client at
least, I will speak for him, I won't speak for anyone else, but he
was certainly involved in it* That's the rule. That's what juries
all around the country have been doing ever since we put this
system into practice. It's something that we all had in mind when
you were selected back four weeks ago, and I haven't seen a thing
gives Mr. Wertz the slightest concern that you folks will do that,
that you will go back there and you will hold the Government in
Page 220 of 248
really all it is that you will hold the Government to that burden
was easy. That could have taken us two or three days at the very
heard that, I think you must understand by now that you wouldn't
why we have
23 0
been in here for certainly longer than the three days that it
might have taken for the Government to put on that evidence, much
show you that once you get past the lenders and all of the facts
and circumstances surrounding the way the loans were taken, once
you get past that, which, for the Government to prove its case,
they had to do, you get yourself into a thicket. You get yourself
goes behind the clouds and you are left to wander around
in the thicket of all the other evidence, past the lenders, beyond
the lenders that you saw and there was literally, literally
doubt, and as part of that, too, they have the burden of them
persuading you that that indeed is what-they have done; and they
can't do what they have done in this case and merely bring in all
of the rest of the evidence, like the notebooks, for example, and
the notebooks are there for you to read, for you to go through
willy-nilly at your leisure and pick and choose whatever you may,
231
members of the jury, it's all there, sort it out. They have
all of that up for you and tell you what it means and
persuade you that it means what they say it means. And I have
yet to hear them do that with any part of this case past the
You can't just assume that. You have got to have evidence
of that.
from
232
you evidence beyond what you heard just from and about the
lenders. And you heard from some people who were no longer
you know, quitters, you can call them anything that you will.
large pretty much balanced, and I would say that if you were
to sit and spout off their views. They brought Charlie Tate
233
start there and you start asking yourselves, well, yes, isn't
it true that the only reason we would have ever heard those
people was because the Government needed them and if you want
you can't do that; and in fact, when you get right down to
it, when you get right down to the facts and the considera-
proof, holding them to the fact that they have got to prove
you can't convict these people honestly and fairly, and you
can't give them the fair trial and the fair outcome that they
Charlie Tate and Chris Curtis. You will reach that point
haven't
234
side.
The sunlight that I hope when you are done with your
simply the defense case. The defense case is not hokum. The
defense case is very real, and ycfu have charts here, and I
the one yoy may remember who got them in here in evidence,
I'm sure glad someone else used them, but for my money# the
on those charts, and let me tell you what I think they show.
they call them towers and you know, you know what
probably knew very well that if they had that chart r that
doing
235
that took place before then, and you shouldn't pay very much
those two years. That's what they would like you to do.
to make us sit still for it, and the whole ten years are in.
and they come to town and they put their thing into
effect. They conduct their ripoff, and they are gone, and you
never see them again until maybe they show up two or three
operation
236
surrounded him, the thing that was his life during the
The next chart, again yon have seen it, and you know
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what was going on with the taking of loans in 1984, what got
237
their heads.
had happened the year before and how deeply into it they
Is that what they do? No, that isn't what they do.
think you have heard all of these people have every type of
isn't very long before that doesn't seem to cure the problem.
238
And then out comes the very first thing that has an
effect at all, and that is never mind for the moment paying
back where we are in the hole now, let's start moving ahead
and how can we build for the future. And what is the first
thing you have got to do there? Well, you have got to cut
out loans.
second quarter of 1985. And then you heard that another loan
problem*
all kind of not come together, you heard they didn't have a
tag end of 1984, and on through up until 1985, and you have
only
239
from then on through the year there were attempts, and they
did try to do it, but by November, hey, come on, when Hintz
entire way they tried this case, that from then on they
don't think Judge Bryan will let me. But that is the box to
the next column over. And what do you see there? Well, you
being taken.
that these events were taking place, but Will Wertz and all
of these people, they knew what the situation was. They knew
that, yes, loans had been cut back, and so, if you asked
them, would it look like that? They would have told you that,
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240
the orange line, you see a wide, wide gap there, the widest
could have had. And you say. Gee, if you are lookinc at that
hate him because that is all he is doing. He has got the most
wonder that his picture is gloomy. But Will Wertz gets more
this,"
are they really doing? Well, they are letting all of the
Curtis walked away from it, when you get up to June. But
they
241
didn't walk away from it. And they had good reason for
and not running away with their tails between their legs.
it around again.
C.
242
it." They were the little train that could, if you will.
And if they were wrong, and I don't even know that you can
was there not a fair and decent and arguable basis for that
Hintz' stuff you would say yes, nobody in their right mind
optimistic about.
and that's what they believe, and that's why, members of the
Judge Bryan?
243
do, you know, hold the Government to its burden and you are
are just not going to say well, it was all there somewhere.
They must be guilty and walk out. I don't have a fear in the
their testimony.
24 4
Page 234 of 248
single bit of testimony that anyone has given you that the
people but you must believe them uncorroborated. You must take
people up there where you can look right in the eye and you can
testifying against; and when they come in. and they testify that
such and such happens, hey, that's it. You accept it, and juries
can act, juries can convict, juries can award damages in civil
sterling person.
the testimony of two people who I suggest to you are less than
2^45
Curtis every chance he got, he reached out and tried to put Will
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Wertz into something, when no one ever even asked him. He would
him about that related to his client, and was with his client,
and right in the middle of that he would pop in with, and ye.s,
Now, when you see that type of bias and hostility, you
convict anybody on it, because again that is what you have to do.
that are uncorroborated and for the most part, that's the way it
question that Mr. Clark asked you, which was essentially, can you
figure Chris Curtis out, what made him change, do you know where
tales of all the evil deeds that he had been involved in.
24 6
4 ment, the CIA, and he told them where he had worked and he
Page 236 of 248
13 There had been that raid. Everyone out there knew it. He
14 was still living out there. And they come in. But he
good
20 faith.
25
they put Curtis in a room with three or four people. They
247
Bryant calls him on the 21st of May and on the 24th of May,
over these two weeks is all on him. Here, read them. Read
Charlie and telling them things they never heard. And this
248
Tate and you are going to believe that? You are going to
Page 238 of 248
came out of his mouth and his direct testimony where somebody
else was; and that of course was the story about the chat
with Mr. Yepez after having the meeting in the morning with
Mr* Wertz where Mr. Wertz says those loans are going to be
paid back. Curtis then goes to Yepez and says, are those
loans going to be paid back? And Yepez says no, those loans
2'4 9
cut out in August. The Government knew that that was what
lay in store for them, creating that conflict for you all
Chris Curtis.
250
gave you the testimony from Mr. Tate, right up to the moment
that's what you heard, and then Mr. Markham's last question
was, and was there any reaction from anyone else? And the
somewhere else.
were a little readier for him, because we knew there was more
you about the conversation with Spida, with Mr. Spida, the
2'51
Mr. Spida could hardly forget. Spida and he have known each other
for years, and they couldn't lob that one off as forgetfulness,
but clever Mr. Tate said well, I will switch it over, and that
will be in over here and how could he ever remember what he ever
he claims to have had with Spida; and then he goes on and tells
about going down and visiting Sandy Roberts. And he tell you that
he told Sandy Roberts all about what had happened that morning.
He thought Roberts was there, and there was conversation back and
not to pay back loans. That's what he tells you reluctantly that
in, same thing. Yes, I had a conversation with him ■ all right,
loan forgiveness okay. I hope you members of the jury don't have
252
to lie and now you have him actually lying under oath.
That* s Tate.
seriously doubt it* The same thing with Curtis. Here you have
got a guy who has got a motive to lie, all the motive in the
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He has got the motive to lie. He has got the motive to save
will ride their horse and maybe they are riding his horse. I
Charlie Curtis saw which way the horse was going and he
the horse that the Government has chosen to ride. What else
233
the venom that comes from Tate and Curtis. If you can, if
you could purge all of that stuff from your minds that they
consider that case, I would say well, I guess you got a try
testimony of those two people when they began it, when they
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shouted at.
like that.
254
Your Honor.
they called him, they knew as to both Curtis and Tate what
the other testimony was, what the true facts were. They
you will hold the Government to the burden of proof that the
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going to tell you you have to hold them to, then I have every
25 5
back, and despite all of these glitches along the way, give them
the jury, is because this is probably the only fraud case -that
you will ever see or that anyone else in this courtroom has ever
seen that is absent one thing. In all fraud cases, you have
profit motive. You have people you are trying in one fashion or
You don't have that here. With people who are trying to
line their pockets, you have greed. I cannot remember a fraud case
ever being tried where the word greed wasn't argued all over the
Court. You haven't heard that from the Government because there is
no greed here, will Wertz is not a greedy person. Neither are any
256
reported as follows:)
morning. I don't know how much more this jury can absorb.
257
not be long. The only one who lived up to his promises was
Mr. Anderson.
to stop you.
tomorrow.
held:)
you, but I have heard about all the argument I can take for
258
COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA )
) BS,
CITY OF ALEXANDRIA }
EDWARD DONOVAN
WcCgSY//KPR Official
Court Reporter
Page 248 of 248
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