Alain de Botton Interview @ Spoiled Ink Page 1 of 4 Magazine Interviews Book Reviews Short Fiction Literary News Community

The Writing Community: Submit your poems and stories, get and give feedback, interact Learn more with o ther writers, poets and authors... Alain de Botton Interview You are here: Spoiled Ink >> Literary Magazine >> Author Interviews >> Alain de Botton Alain de Botton is the author of three novels - Essays in Love, The Romantic Mov ement and Kiss and Tell - and four non-fiction works - The Consolations of Philo sophy, How Proust Can Change Your Life, The Art of Travel and, most recently, St atus Anxiety. January is traditionally the season of self-help mania in bookshop s, and we at Spoiled Ink were keen to get in on the action. With Status Anxiety due out imminently in paperback, we asked Alain de Botton - a 'philosopher of ev eryday life' - to give us some advice. 1) How far would you agree that your books constitute attempts to bring philosop hy back into the realm of practical life. Would you see your agenda as following in the steps of writers such as Matthew Arnold, Francis Bacon, Marcus Aurelius and St Augustine? Ever since the early 19th century, weve been suffering from a g reat divide between so-called ordinary culture and high culture. Previous ages so no such schism. Writers like Voltaire or Montaigne aimed both to be highly serious and to please a wide and varied audience. They did not believe in the specialis t. However, this happy unity gradually eroded in the 19th century, giving way on the one hand to the academic, and on the other to the journalist. The idea of bei ng at once serious and worldly, profound and light, general and specific became harder to hold on to. In the early 21st century, its harder still. My goal is, ho wever, to occupy this difficult central terrain. Im not a philosopher as defined by most academics. Philosophy is simply one discipline that interests me among m any in the humanities. I studied history at university, and my curiosity directs me also towards psychoanalysis, sociology, literature and economics. I believe that the role of culture, broadly defined, is to offer us tools that are going t o help us to reflect on who to marry, what job to do, how to behave in the commu nity, how to bring up children, how to deal with the compromises of social life, how to face death, what to make of suffering and so on. So ideally, we would ha ve universities of life. We need help in becoming not just lawyers or teachers, bu t also, and primarily, citizens and human beings. All societies need people who are going to be able to step back from the fray of practical life and analyse th ings, make them intelligible, explain, and generally shed light on things that a re going on but which we cant make sense of because we are too busy. Call this ch aracter a philosopher, or whatever one likes, but there continues to be a role f or such a person. 2) Which school of philosophy would you align yourself with? O r wouldn't you? I have always been interested in philosophy as a kind of therapy , a source of consolation. The opposition between philosophy and therapy is, I f eel, a false one because the choice isnt between either philosophy or therapy: I

think that therapy is just an outgrowth of philosophy and follows almost all of its insights and even methods. The earliest therapists (Epicurus, Freud) were th erapists. Its just that in the early to middle of the 20th century, psychoanalysi s became a discipline in its own right. However, its important to remember that p hilosophy was the mother and father of therapy. I wrote a book a few years ago c alled The Consolations of Philosophy. In this book, I tried to look at all those philosophers who I thought were most therapeutic in their approach, philosophers who were interested in curing our everyday problems the kind of people who are m ost like therapists are today. From a distance, few areas of knowledge seem more enticing or more profound than philosophy. In a secular age, philosophy looks l ike the ultimate authority on life's great questions, the natural place to seek answers to the riddles of human unhappiness. Philosophers, like rocket scientist s, look as if they have access to some very complex and important truths. But de spite an enticing exterior, philosophy often disappoints those who study it more closely. Issues that seem so urgent to many philosophers (is this a table? what is a sentence?) don't often echo our own priorities (why am I so shy? am I in t he right job?). Were it not for politeness and an ingrained respect for learning , novices might be tempted to declare the subject bunk. Which would be a pity, b ecause philosophy is like a lobster - with an impenetrable outer shell, certain dark sections that should be left untouched, but also more nourishing flesh whic h can be hardest to reach. In spite of the vast differences between the many thi nkers described as philosophers across time (people in actuality so diverse that had they been gathered together at a giant cocktail party, they would not only have had nothing to say to one another, but would most probably have come to blo ws after a few drinks), it is possible to discern a small group of men, separate d by centuries, sharing a loose allegiance to a vision of philosophy suggested b y the Greek etymology of the word - philo, love, sophia, wisdom - a group bound by a common interest in saying a few consoling and practical things about the ca uses of some of our greatest griefs. It is these characters I have long been int erested in. 3) Has philosophy become too divorced from practice? In Europe philo sophy is taught from secondary school level, but this is rarely so in the UK. Wh at do you think the significance of this is? We shouldnt make too much of our lac k of philosophical education in the UK. What is taught in, for example, French s econdary schools is hardly revolutionary or profound. The bigger question is how we direct our education generally. Undoubtedly, we dont enlighten children too m uch for fear that they wont become the docile, unquestioning citizens that societ y needs them to be. It isnt an accident that school is boring. It has to be borin g or we wont take a job afterwards. School is there to break our will and stifle our curiosity. It doesnt have to be so, and Id dearly wish it wasnt, but for the cu rriculum genuinely to change, well have to be honest with ourselves about what so rt of a society we want to build. Being a poorer, less economically productive c ountry might be the price we have to pay for raising children who are questionin g and understand themselves and their world a little better. 4) Could your books be considered a response to this problem, and does your own education have any bearing on this? http://www.spoiledink.com/FEATURES/author_interviews_010.php 13-Mar-06

Alain de Botton Interview @ Spoiled Ink Page 2 of 4 My books are an attempt to lay out clearly certain ideas that I dont feel have en ough of an airing, and to do so in a way that anyone can understand. They are in a way a protest against my own education, which I felt was shockingly bad, even though it was, according to society, supposed to be a good one. I went to Cambrid ge university, where I found the teaching to be generally very poor and almost e ntirely disconnected from the sort of issues that an intelligent human should be taught for three years before taking up a job that probably wont leave him or he r much time for reflection for the next thirty years. 5) Are you trying to desta bilise notions of 'highbrow' and 'lowbrow'? These categories are deeply frustrat ing. In art, there is only ever good and bad. I hate the idea of there being good art which is boring, and bad art which is fun. We have to make choices. If you think opera is boring but worthy, perhaps you dont really think much of it. We should have the courage to stick by our own intuitions. My own work is sometimes accuse d of being low-brow because it flirts with popular genres. Im unbothered, and at times secretly flattered by the snobbery behind such an accusation. 6) For those who have not read Status Anxiety, could you define what you mean by the term? S tatus anxiety is a worry about our standing in the world, whether were going up o r down, whether were winners or losers. We care about our status for a simple rea son: because most people tend to be nice to us according to the amount of status we have if they hear weve been promoted, therell be a little more energy in their smile, if we are sacked, theyll pretend not to have seen us. Ultimately, we worr y about having no status because were not good at remaining confident about ourse lves if other people dont seem to like or respect us very much. Our ego or self-con ception could be pictured as a leaking balloon, forever requiring external love to remain inflated and vulnerable to the smallest pinpricks of neglect: we rely on signs of respect from the world to feel acceptable to ourselves. 7) The theme of Status Anxiety is a little investigated one, do you find the shadowy areas o f the human psyche interesting? Its not so much the shadowy, as the painful side of life I find interesting. Maybe we all read to know we are not alone about cer tain things that make us unhappy. Its rare for people to read when they are delig hted and happy. Pain is for me the source of inspiration. I do think that pain c an sometimes teach us useful things, it certainly teaches me and inspires me. Be cause none of us will ever be able to stop feeling pain at some points in life, we might as well try to learn something from it. Poets and artists have always t o have known this. "Being happy doesn't provoke me to think or write a poem," on ce said Philip Larkin in an interview, "Deprivation is for me what daffodils wer e to Wordsworth." Even if we don't write poems ourselves, unhappiness can always inspire us to think about things in a way we would never have done when smiling . Hiccups force us to notice and adjust to hitherto unknown aspects of the respi ratory system, being jilted by a lover is a perfect introduction to the mechanis ms of emotional dependency. 8) In Status Anxiety (and also The Art of Travel) th ere seems to be much subtle probing into psychology as well as philosophy. Are b oth strands of thought equally important to you? Its the psychological side of ph ilosophy that really fascinates me. Its emotional life that is at the heart of my interests. 9) What is the lack that causes otherwise rational and intelligent p eople to seek the approval of others, indeed the love and attention of others, t hrough achieving high status? While it would be unusual to be status anxious in a famine, history shows that as soon as societies go any way beyond basic subsis tence, status anxieties quickly kick in. In the modern world, status anxiety sta rts when we compare our achievements with those of other people we consider to b e our equals. We might worry about our status when we come across an enthusiasti c newspaper profile of an acquaintance (it can destroy the morning), when a clos e friend reveals a piece of what they naively or plain sadistically call good news (they have been promoted, they are getting married, they have reached the bests eller list) or when we are asked what we do at a party by someone with a firm hand shake who has recently floated their own start-up company. 10) Could it be argue

d that the guilty gap between what we are and what we desire to be is the engine that drives Western economies? Do we carry status with us like original sin? St atus anxiety is certainly worse than ever, because the possibilities for achieve ment (sexual, financial, professional) seem to be greater than ever. There are s o many more things we expect if were not to judge ourselves losers. We are constant ly surrounded by stories of people who have made it. For most of history, an opp osite assumption held sway: low expectations were viewed as both normal and wise . Only a very few ever aspired to wealth and fulfillment. The majority knew well enough that they were condemned to exploitation and resignation. Of course, it remains highly unlikely that we will today ever reach the pinnacle of society. I t is perhaps as unlikely that we could rival the success of Bill Gates as that w e could in the seventeenth century have become as powerful as Louis XIV. Unfortu nately though, it no longer feels unlikely depending on the magazines one reads, it can in fact seem absurd that one hasnt already managed to have it all. 11) Ca n this lack, or absence, ever be filled, or are we forever doomed to "hug our ch ains"? A feeling of incompleteness is central to what it means to be human. Prev ious societies have recognised it. Ours tortures us by pretending that this lack is an accident that could be remedied if only we worked harder, were more succe ssful etc 12) Feelings of low status that arise from failure in this and other We stern societies presume that we live in a true meritocracy and therefore if we f ail the blame is only ours. Do you think we live in a true meritocracy? Its nice to reflect on how comparatively just society is today. In the distant past, when you saw a rich or successful person, you could reasonably assume that he or she attained advantage through some unfair means by killing someone, or inheriting privilege or being in a monopoly. But for the last few hundred years, politician s have been striving to build a society which we in the west nowadays call merito cratic. That is, a society where if you have something to say, if you have talent and energy, youll be able to achieve on a more or less level playing field. But this sense of social justice has brought one big problem with it, for if you gen uinely believe that the successful merit their success, you have to believe that the unsuccessful deserve their failure. In a meritocratic age, a sense of justi ce enters into the distribution of poverty as well as wealth. Low status comes t o seem not merely regrettable, but also deserved. The rich are not only wealthie r; they could also be plain better. The harsh attitude that a belief in meritocr acy brings can be felt in language. 300 years ago in England, those at the botto m of society were called unfortunates. Nowadays, they are liable to be referred to as losers this harsh word suggesting a belief those who fail have only themselves to blame. Our very sense of opportunity makes failure more worrying to contempl ate. After all, to fail in a land of plenty is infinitely more shameful than to fail in a corrupt and caste-like society. You get a sense of this shame if you w alk into any large American bookstore and look at the offerings on the self-help shelves. You could divide them into two basic categories. Half the books are te lling you how to make something of yourself. Theyre called things like How to beco me a billionaire by Friday (a current favourite of mine is actually called The Cou rage to be rich). Then theres another kind of book books teaching you how to cope with low self-esteem. The two genres seem intimately related. Its by the time its Saturday and you havent become a http://www.spoiledink.com/FEATURES/author_interviews_010.php 13-Mar-06

Alain de Botton Interview @ Spoiled Ink Page 3 of 4 billionaire, youll be reaching out for something to help you to feel better about yourself. The great cruelty behind the idea of meritocracy is that its crazy to imagine that well ever build a society where youll be able to rank everyone in ord er of goodness and reward them accordingly, the rich being the best, the poor th e worst. A wiser course might be to be inspired by the traditional Christian ide a that the merit of others is in fact so hard to judge that only God is up to th e task, and even He can only start work on the Day of Judgment with the help of a thousand angels and a large pair of scales a crazy idea from a secular point o f view but a useful corrective to the view that you can just look at someones res ume and judge how good he or she happens to be. None of this is to say that meri t is equally distributed or indeed theoretically immeasurable, but simply to ins ist that you or I are in practical terms unlikely ever to know how to do the mea suring properly and hence should display infinite care before acting or thinking in ways that presume we can. 13) In these terms, is the concept of the Romantic Individual still in any way valid, or is it just a vicarious sop we comfort our selves with? Whether its true or not, none of us could live without believing in t he individual. 14) Could a society that succeeds in banishing status anxiety ever be envisaged? The point isnt to banish anxiety, its to ensure that the sort of th ings we feel anxious about are more or less the right ones. All societies are st atus hierarchies, and so generate anxiety. But there are still some societies th at are better than others. 15) In the second part of the book you suggest answer s to status anxiety, one of which is Intelligent Misanthropy do you practice thi s yourself? Certainly see my reading list for no.20 16) Would Ruskin see any dif ferences between his society and ours? John Ruskin excoriated nineteenth-century Britons (he had never been to the United States) for being the most wealthobses sed people who had ever emerged in the history of the world. They were, he wrote , at all times, never far from a concern with who had what and from where: The ru ling goddess may be best generally described as the Goddess of Getting-on That sou nds familiar 17) What is it about the emptiness of Thomas Joness paintings that is so moving? In much art, and particularly in the work of Thomas Jones, we re-enc ounter disowned examples of our own moods and temperaments. Theres a loneliness i n Jones that reminds us of our own. Beauty can be difficult to look at for long. 18) Why is the thought of eternity a strangely comforting one? Its the best way to stop worrying so much about what others make of you. To discover whose friend ship you should really care about, ask yourself who among your acquaintances wou ld make it to your hospital bedside. If need be, look at a skeleton: what others think about you will soon start to lose its intimidating power. 19) What is you r next area for enquiry? I am currently writing a book about architecture, looki ng at the question of whats beautiful and whats ugly and why it matters whats aroun d us. 20) In the spirit of the new year drive toward self-improvement, which fiv e books would you recommend for Spoiled Ink readers who have stared into the aby ss of Christmas ennui and require philosophical succour? What about 10 books? 1. Michel de Montaigne, Essays The wisest, most entertaining philosopher ever to h ave written. Alive in the second half of the 16th century, Montaigne mixes highbrow discussion of classical philosophy with ruminations on his horse, his wife, his cabbages and his proclivity for farting after large meals. Montaigne is one of those rare philosophers whom one wishes could have been a friend, so human d oes he still feel across the centuries that separate us from him. Even on the hig hest throne, we are seated, still, on our arses. Kings and philosophers shit, and so do ladies, are examples. 2. Friedrich Nietzsche, Human All Too Human This is p erhaps Nietzsches most readable book. The writing is crisp, witty and consolingly bleak. Here is a flavour of whats inside: "Some men have sighed over the abducti on of their wives, most however over the fact that no one wanted to abduct them. " "There will be few who, when they are in want of matter for conversation, do n ot reveal the more secret affairs of their friends." "It is to be doubted whethe r a traveller will find anywhere in the world regions uglier than the human face

." 3. La Rochefoucauld, Maxims Behind almost every one of these maxims, there li es a challenge to an ordinary, flattering view of ourselves. La Rochefoucauld sh ows that we are never far from being vain, arrogant, selfish and petty and in fa ct, never nearer than when we trust in our own goodness. For example, we might b elieve that were kind to be concerned about the worries of our friends. Nothing o f the sort, mocks La Rochefoucauld, writing a century before the Germans had eve n thought up the notion of Schadenfreude: We all have strength enough to endure t he troubles of others. 4. Chamfort, Reflections on Life, Love and Society Another gloomy highly readable frenchman. My favourite of his selection of aphorisms is : A man should swallow a toad every morning to be sure of not meeting with anythi ng more revolting in the day ahead. 5. Alexis de Tocqueville, Democracy in Americ a One of the few and best philosophical travelogues. De Tocqueville travelled to the United States in the early 19th century to look into what he called the shap e of the future. What he found in the States left him both pleased and frightened for all of us. His main concern is what happens to values in a democratic, merc antile age. The answer, in short, is that they can become depressingly commercia l. 6. Michael Ignatieff, The Needs of Strangers Ignatieffs book is a beguiling at tempt to answer the question of what we owe other people. He takes ideas from a number of philosophers and artists of the past. He does a brilliant reading of K ing Lear, of St Augustines Confessions and Adam Smiths The Wealth of Nations. This is the perfect liberals answer to the problems of life in a market economy. 7. A dam Smith, The Theory of Moral Sentiments In this book, Adam Smith tries to give an overall picture of the nature and origins of our emotions, but what stays in the mind is his analysis of how our selfish impulses can be tamed to render us fi t for social life. Smith is particularly acute on how very selfish, rich people can be persuaded to behave in seemingly very unselfish ways if society is clever enough to reward them and flatter them for giving away their money. 8. Ernst Go mbrich, Art and Illusion http://www.spoiledink.com/FEATURES/author_interviews_010.php 13-Mar-06

Alain de Botton Interview @ Spoiled Ink Page 4 of 4 Gombrichs book is an attempt to write a psychology and philosophy of seeing, as i t applies to our responses to the visual arts. Its one of the most thrilling book s on art ever to have been written, largely because of the ingenious way in whic h Gombrich ties together high and low culture, comparing the way we read a Const able to a Tube poster. 9. Arthur Schopenhauer, Essays and Aphorisms The great gl oomy German philosopher proposed that nothing could more quickly correct our des ire to be liked by others than focusing on their true characters, which were, he reasoned, for the most part, excessively brutish and stupid. Here is one, utter ly typical gem, from the sage of Frankfurt: We will gradually become indifferent to what goes on in the minds of other people when we acquire an adequate knowled ge of the superficial and futile nature of their thoughts, of the narrowness of their views, of the paltriness of their sentiments, of the perversity of their o pinions, and of the number of their errors We shall then see that whoever attache s a lot of value to the opinions of others pays them too much honour. 10. E.M.Cio ran, The Temptation to Exist Many have complained that philosophy in the 20th ce ntury lost the humanity and poetry it had possessed in previous ages. The work o f the Romanian-French philosopher is a triumphant exception to the depressing no rm. He worked in the tradition of Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and Chamfort. Like the m, he was gloomy and funny and cynical. Like them, he wrote beautifully, in shor t finely crafted sentences. He is a hero in France, typically, his books are har dly read over here. Interview By: sean merrigan News Book Review Archive Author Interview Archive Terms & Conditions - Short Story Submissions - Contact - Writing Contest - Links - Writers' Forum - Book Promotion Copyrights 2003 - 2006 Spoiled Ink I/S http://www.spoiledink.com/FEATURES/author_interviews_010.php 13-Mar-06

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