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What are classrooms good for? | The (De-)Fossilization Diaries

The(De)FossilizationDiaries
AlanguageteachertriestocrankuphisSpanish September22,2013

Whatareclassroomsgoodfor?
ByScottThornbury

(http://scottthornburyblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/5285506260_8969d9afc7_z.jpg)Myrecentexperience asastudentonashortintensiveSpanishcoursehasgivenmepauseforthought.WhileIcantclaimthatthe experiencewasrepresentativeofallclassroomlanguagelearningexperiences,therewereneverthelessa numberoffeaturesofitthatIthinkarefairlytypical,suchasthewaythatthecoursebookdeterminedthe lessonsequence,thealternationbetweenteacherfrontedandmorelearnercentredactivities,afocusonform aswellasonmeaning,and,notionallyatleast,anoverallallegiancetothepractices(ifnottheprinciples)of communicativelanguageteaching.(Thecentrespublicitymaterialclaimsthattheyuseunmtodo comunicativo). So,whatfollowsisnotsomuchacritiqueoftheclassesthemselves,noroftheteachers,norofthematerials thatweused,butmoreacritiqueofthecurrentorthodoxy,inthesensethatIhavedescribeditabove.Ishould alsostressthat,sincetheclasseswereexperiencedasifrefractedthroughthelensofmyownspecificneeds anddispositions(somewouldsayobsessions),thesecommentsshouldbeinterpretedsolelyinthatlight:the otherstudentsmayhavehadaverydifferentexperience(andthisdiversityofperceptionsisitselfatypical featureofmostclassrooms,Iwouldthink). So,whatwastheclassgoodfor?

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ThefactofthematteristhatIdidntlearnagreatdeal,iflearningmeanstheacquisitionofnew information,theinternalizationofinputetc.Ididpickupanumberofpotentiallyusefulformulaic expressions(ofwhichIllbewritingmoreaboutlater)andhadsomefossilizederrorsbroughttomyattention (asmentionedinmylastpost),butifthiswaslearning,ittendedtobesporadic,incidental,and,infact,largely accidentalabyproductoftasksthathadanaltogetherdifferentpurpose.ThismismatchbetweenwhatI wastaughtandwhatIlearnedmayowetothefactthatIhadbeenplacedinalevelslightlylowerthanmy supposedonehowever,itseemstomethattheaccidentalnatureofthelearningissymptomaticofan approachtolanguageteachingthatpresumestoknowwhatlearnersneed,ratherthanteachingthematthe pointofneed,anapproach,inotherwords,thatimposesanagendathatisnotthelearnersagenda. Forme,therealbenefitoftheseclasseswasthechancetobecommunicativewithinthesafeclimbingframe thattheclassroomdynamicoffered.Chanceistheoperativewordhere,sincemostoftheseopportunitiesto becommunicativewerefortuitous,acaseofgrabbingsomepretexttotalkandrunningwithit,ratherthanthe pretextbeingbuiltintotheoveralldesignofthelessons.Forexample,inonelesson,apassingreferenceto dogs(inagrammarexercise)precipitatedadiscussionabouttherightsandwrongsofkeepingbigdogsin smallapartments,aboutattitudestodogsinthedifferentcountriesrepresented,andaboutfilmsaboutdogs, duringwhichIwasabletotellastoryaboutaneighbourandherannoyingdog,thiswhole(highlyproductive andinteractive)digressiontakingupabout25minutesofclassroomtime. Totheircredit,theteachersnotonlyallowedtheseopportunitiestoevolve(inmostinstances),butwere maximallysupportiveinprovidinghelp(intheformofrecasts,forexample)orfeedback(intheformof correction).Theseteacherinterventionsseemedtorepresentreallearningaffordances,andservedto distinguishwhatiscalledinstructionalconversationfromthekindoftalkthatoccursintherealworld.The conversationswehadwerelikedressrehearsals.Theygavemetheconfidencetomakethetransitionintothe realworld,whereforthefirsttimeIdeliberatelysoughtoutopportunitiestoinitiatetalk,andelaborateon thetalkofothers.IrememberonedayinthesecondweekwhereIexperiencedarealturningpointmoment, asIcrossedthestreettotalktoanacquaintanceatlength,evenbreathlessly,abouttheclassesIwastaking.In theolddaysIwouldhavecrossedthestreetintheotherdirectioni.e.toavoidsuchanencounter.

(http://scottthornburyblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/5285505744_7049ab1ef1_z.jpg)Butithastobe stressedthattheseemergentandscaffoldedclassroomconversationswereseldomplanned.Theyemerged. Whatwasplannedwasasuccessionofcoursebookbasedexercises,wheretheprimaryfocuswason grammar.Andonarelativelynarrowrangeoffairlylowfrequencygrammaticalitems,atthat.Oritwason vocabulary,but,again,oftenvocabularythatnotonlytooktheformofisolatedwords(asopposedtowordsin

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theirtypicalphraseologicalenvironments)butwerewordsofrelativelylowfrequencyandutility. Theproblemis(youguessedit)thecoursebook.Notthisparticularcoursebook(whichwasasgoodinitsway asanycomparableEFLcoursebook)butthecultureofthecoursebookingeneral.Onceyoupinyour curriculumtothemastofacoursebook,youeffectivelycircumscribethelearnersownershipoftheprocess, underminingtheverysenseofagencythatmighthaveimpelledthemtotheclassroominthefirstplace.(It wasperhapsironicthatthecoursebookswereonloan:wedidntownthem). Overthetwoweeksofthecoursetherewasaconstanttensionbetweenthecoursebookagendaandthe agendathatwe,thestudents,managedtofabricatefromrandomaffordances.Thesalientlearningmoments tendedtooccurwhenwemovedawayfromthebook,notwhenwewereimmersedinit.(Thisisnottosay thatthebooksthemes,textsandtasksdidntsometimesstimulateaconversationaldetour,butthesedetours wereunintentional,andmightjustaseasilyhavebeenmotivatedbycopiesofthelocalfreenewspaper). Defendersofthecoursebookmightsaythattheseteachersdidnotknow(orhadnotbeentrained)howtouse thebooksinadiscriminating,andproductiveway.Theremaybesometruthinthis,butitseemstomethatthe verypresenceofthecoursebookimposesconstraintsthateventhebestteachersfinddifficulttocircumvent. Firstthereisthegrammar:oneoftheteachersherselfadmittedthatthegrammarproblemsthatlearnersofour leveltypicallyfaceinvolvestructureslowerdownthegrammaticalhierarchy,suchaspasttenses,porand para,andsoon.Certainly,thebulkofthecorrectionwereceivedwhenwewereinfreetalkingmodehad muchmoretodowithlowerlevel(andmorefrequent)grammaritemsthananythingtodowiththe immediatesyllabus. Thentherewerethetexts,themselveschosenorwrittenbecausetheyembedthestructureoftheday:rarely authentic,inevitablyoutofdateandonlyaccidentallyrelevantorofinterest.Thentherewerethetasks: primarilyformfocused,andnarrowlyfocused,atthat.Ratherthanthecoursebookexpandingopportunities forlearning,itseemedtoshrinkthem.

(http://scottthornburyblog.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/5284908383_383f1c066d_z.jpg) Photoscourtesyeltpics:http://www.flickr.com/photos/eltpics/sets/(http://www.flickr.com/photos/eltpics/sets/) Ihavetostressthatnoneofthesecriticismsisdirectedattheteachersthemselves,norattheactualcoursebook (whosewritersIhappentoknow!)butmoreatthekindofeducationthatprioritisesimportedcontentoverthe locallygenerated.Generatinglessoncontentlocallywould,ofcourse,makeadifferentsetofdemandson teachers(butdemandsthattheseteacherscouldeasilyhaverisento,and,infact,oftendid).Moreimportantly, itrequiresadifferentattitude,thekindofattitudeshiftthatadialogicapproachassumes.AsClaireKramsch (1993:31)putit,

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AdialogicpedagogyisunliketraditionalpedagogyItsetsnewgoalsforteacherspoetic, psychological,politicalgoalsthatdonotconstituteanyeasytofollowmethod...Suchapedagogy shouldbetterbedescribed,notasablueprintforhowtoteachforeignlanguages,butasanotherwayof beingalanguageteacher. So,whatareclassesgoodfor?Theyaregoodplacesforincidentallearningtooccur,particularlyofthekind thatemergesnaturallyoutofclassroomtasks.Theyareevenbetterplacestorehearse,experiment,takerisks andgetatthepointofneedsupport.Theseopportunities,andthissupport,combinedwiththetotal immersioninthelanguagethatIexperiencedfourhoursaday,fivedaysaweek,hugelyfacilitatedmy transitionfromthelearningcontextintotheusingcontent.ForthatIamverythankful. References: Kramsch,C.(1993)ContextandCultureinLanguageTeaching,Oxford:OxfordUniversityPress. Nextweek:Whatdrivesme?

AboutScottThornbury
IwritebooksaboutELTmethodologyandteachontheMATESOLprogramattheNewSchool inNewYork.IliveinBarcelona. ThisentrywaspostedonSunday,September22nd,2013at8:00amandtaggedwithclassroom instruction,communicativeapproach,coursebooks,dialogicpedagogy,emergence,grammarteaching, learningSpanish,methodology,secondlanguagelearningandpostedinUncategorized.Youcanfollowany responsestothisentrythroughtheRSS2.0feed.

26ResponsestoWhatareclassroomsgoodfor?
alexbaileywriter September22nd,2013at9:00am Sothereisatensionbetweentheplannedsequenceofactivitiesmanifestinthecoursebook(oreventhe worksheet)andthedesiretousethelanguagein*real*ways(suchasyourspontaneousconversations aboutdogs).Ofcourse,studentssensethatonlythelatterisrealandsostartontopicofftaskconversations withtheteacherandtheotherstudents,sensingsomethingrealishappening,prickuptheirears.So whatstherootcauseoftheunrealnessofcoursebookwork?Studentsseethecoursebookassomething genericthatwaspreparedearlierwithouttheirinput.Asolutionistoinvolvethestudentsintheplanning andcreationoftheirlesson.Icallthisprocessparticipatoryplanningand,whenIuseit,studentsarefar moremotivated.Moreimportantly,theystartthinkingaboutwhattheyneedtolearn,whichpreparesthem toextendtheircapabilitythroughselfteaching,inthefuturewhichisinturnamore*real*wayof learningthantheclassroombasedlesson.
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Reply ScottThornbury September22nd,2013at11:52pm Thanksforthecomment,Alex.Yes,whenweweregiventhechancetopresenttotheclassonatopic ofourownchoosing(notionallyrelatedtothecoursebooktopic,admittedly)thingsreallytookoff.For me,atleast.Illbetalkingaboutthisnextweek. Reply tichahana September22nd,2013at10:59am HiScott, Thanksforanotherinspiringpost.Iespeciallylikethepartaboutcoursebooksthemajorboneof contentionELT. YesterdayIhappenedtobeatawonderfulmethodologyconferencewhereIcouldchoosedifferent workshopstoattend.Inoneoftheworkshopstheguygaveustipsonhowtoprepareourstudentsforthe FCEexamusingauthenticmaterials(recipes,weatherforecasts,etc.).Itwasreallyinterestinganduseful. ButthentherewasanotherworkshopwheretheladysaidthatNOTusingcoursebookscanhinder learning.Shegaveussomestrongarguments,e.g.theauthorhasdonetheresearchandknowswhich wordsarethemostfrequentlyusedonesinanFCEexam.So,whatshouldwe,poorteachers,donow? Well,weshouldkeepinmindthatpassinganexamisnottheultimategoalofanEFLlearnerbut,no matterwhatwebelieve,itisoneofthegoals.Sohereweare,again,dealingwiththeneedsanalysis problem. Andbacktofossilization,IhaverecentlycomeacrossafewfossilizederrorsCzechspeakersoccasionally make(andnowImtalkingaboutspeakerswhospeakperfectEnglish,withaperfectaccent,almost indistinguishablefromthenativeone).Thesemistakeswillalwaysrevealthespeakerstrueidentity(for example,thebestwayhowto+verb.andmakerisks).AlthoughImsuretheyknowthattheyare mistakes(IsupposetheystayedorstudiedinanEnglishspeakingcountryforquitealongtime),theycant avoidthemundercertaincircumstances,e.g.underpressureorwhenbeingsurroundedbyspeakersof theirnativelanguage.Illfinishoffwithquestionis:Doweneedtobe100%perfectunlesswewantto foolsomebody? Hana Reply ScottThornbury September22nd,2013at11:58pm Doweneedtobe100%perfectunlesswewanttofoolsomebody?Goodquestion,Hana,andI suspectyouhaveanswereditinyourownmindalready.AsIllbearguinginnextweeksblog,the achievableaimforthe(adult)languagelearnerisnot100%nativespeakercompetence,buta miniaturizedversion,i.e.onethatiscoextensivewithnativespeakercompetencebutlessgranular, lessdetailed.Themap,butnottheterritory. Reply adelesoracco
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September22nd,2013at11:54am Itiscertainlytrickytobalancefollowingthecurriculumsetbytheschoolwhilealsomaintainingalearning environmentinwhichtheneedsofthegrouparegiventheproperspaceinclass.Asateacher,Icertainly wanttoembracethoselearningmomentswhenstudentsdeviatefromheoriginalplan,butdobringabout morerelevantlanguageandtopicstothelessonhowever,Ithinkitsintimidatingtofacilitatethese learningdetourswhenyouarenotanexperiencedteacher.AlthoughInowpreferteachingwithout havingacoursebookdictatethecurriculum,itwasnttoolongagowhenthecoursebooksIusedprovided amuchneededguidesoIwouldsequencelessonsappropriately.SinceIbeganteachingwithouthaving anyformaltraininginTESOL,thosetextbooksdidprovidealotofsupportatfirst.Idohavetosaythough thatIwouldhaveratherstartedmycareerbygettingtrainingonhowtouseanytextwithstudentswithout itnecessarilybeingtiedtoacoursebook.Ithinkitsmuchmoreusefultolearnhowtoteachvocabulary, howtofacilitateproductiveclassdiscussions,andhowtousethestudentsownintereststosetupan engagingclassroom.BecausetherewasntaninvestmentinteachertrainingrelatedtoELTatmyfirstjob, mostofmytrainingcamefromthepublishingtrainersanditrelatedtohowtousethetextbook.Iwonder howmanyclassroomswouldlookifschoolssponsoredatypeoftrainingwhereteachingdoesnotrelyon usingcoursebookstosetthecurriculum,butratherstudentsandtheirparticularneedsandinterestsdictate thelessons.Inanycase,thanksforsharingyourreflectionsasaSpanishlanguagelearner.Muchtoreflect onafterreadingthispost. Reply ScottThornbury September23rd,2013at1:55pm Yes,Adele,thesupportthatcoursebooksgivetonew(andevenuntrained)teacherscantbedenied,or undervalued:manyteachers,likeyourself,learnedtoteacheffectivelybyfollowingthebook.And becausemostcurrentbookssubscribetoacommunicativemethodology,thistrainingstandsthemin goodstead.Nevertheless,asyousuggest,therecomesatimewhenmaybethisscaffoldingneedsto bedismantled,whenthecoursebookneedstobeputasidebecause,farfromfosteringtheteachers development,itmightbestiflingit. Reply adamfromteachthemenglish September22nd,2013at1:06pm Iwonderhowmanyofthosereadingthiswillbenoddingtheirheadthroughout?Asyounote,othersin theclassmighthavehadquiteadifferentexperiencewereyouabletodiscussthiswiththeotherlanguage learnersand,ifso,willyoubediscussingtheseperspectivesinlaterposts? Excellentselectionofphotosthisweek,bytheway! Reply ScottThornbury September22nd,2013at1:09pm

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ThanksAdamrethephotos,Imassumingyoutookthem!(Thankstoeltpicsformakingthem available). Reply adamfromteachthemenglish September22nd,2013at3:06pm Thosephotosdatefromabout2006 Giventhesubjectofthisblog,youmightbeinterestedtoknowthattheclassroomsyouseeremain exactlythesametothisday,asdothecoursebooksbeingused.Whatthatsaysabouttheformal languageclasscorrelatesquitenicelywiththethemeofthispost! ScottThornbury September22nd,2013at3:45pm Goodpoint,Adam(reotherstudentsviewpoints).Implanningtomeetupwithatleastoneofthem forthisverypurpose(whenigetbackfrommycurrenttravels). Reply PhilipQuickRepublicofMoldova September22nd,2013at3:08pm Itsapityyoudidntengagewithyourteachersinthisdialogueandexplainyourideas.Thenyouwould havegottothecoreofyourownlanguageneedsandimprovedyourSpanishatthesametime. Imamazedyourteachers,whoifIunderstandcorrectlyknowofyourfame,didntseizethechanceto enterintoadialoguewithyouonteaching. Wereyoutooshytohaveanafterclasschat? Reply ScottThornbury September22nd,2013at3:16pm Philip,Ideliberatelykeptmyidentitysecret:Ididntwantanyspecialtreatmentattheexpenseofthe otherstudents,nordidIwanttheteacherstofeelselfconscious,knowingtheirclassesmightbe describedonthisblog. Reply MarkMakino September22nd,2013at4:44pm ImverygladGeoffrecommendedthisblog Maybetheexistenceofacoursebookcouldbeseenasformofadvertisingtostudentswhowouldhesitate togotoaschoolthatdidntuseoneatallmoreofachefshatthanachefsknife. Reply ScottThornbury
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September22nd,2013at11:44pm Iagree,MarkIthinkthatcoursebookshaveaniconicvaluetheyconferauthorityontheteacher andtheinstitutionbecausetheysatisfystudentsexpectations,basednotonanyrealunderstandingof howlanguagesareacquiredbutonhoweducationoughttobemanaged. Reply stevebrown70 September22nd,2013at9:22pm HiScott, Ofcourse,itshardlysurprisingthatyouhaveaproblemwithcoursebooksasastudent,consideringhow youviewthemasateacher. Itsnotjustthematerialsthoughyouseemtohavehadaproblemwiththefactthatthelessonshadapre conceivedplanitwastheunplannedbits,themomentswhereyouandtheotherstudentswereableto hijackthelesson,thatyoufoundmostproductive.Wasthisjustbecausetheplanoriginatedinthemind ofsomecoursebookwriterwhowastoodistantfromthelearningenvironment,orwoulditstillhavebeen aproblemiftheteachersplannedlessonswithoutusingacoursebook? IthinkyoualreadyknowhowIfeelaboutcoursebooks(andlessonplanningforthatmatter),butyourpost hasmademethinkagainaboutwheretheproblemlies.Asteachers,weallwanttocreatesituationsthat maximisethelearningprocess,buttheressomethingaboutplanninginadvancethatdiminishesourability todothis.Isitthematerialsweareusing?Orthewayweareusingthem?Orisitmoretodowiththe languageaimsthatweset? IthinkImighthavetoblogaboutthisagainmyselfthanksfortheinspiration(again). Steve Reply ScottThornbury September23rd,2013at12:01am Imnotagainstplanning,Steve,butIratherwishthattheplanninghadtakenthelearnersmoreinto account,ratherthansimplyfollowingthebook.IfIsignupforaguidedtour(ofVeniceforexample) IwantmorethanIcouldhavegotthroughsimplyfollowingtheRoughGuide. Reply sallyhirst September22nd,2013at9:26pm Willlearninginaclassroom,notalwaysbetosomedegreeincidental?Itfeelsasthoughyouare attributingthisresulttoalargedegreetotheuseofabook,thoughImaybereadingthatinthewrongway. Unlessitisjustyouthetopicswillsometimesbethingsyouareinterestedinandsometimesnot,will sometimesaddresswhatyouseeasoneofyourmoreurgentlearningneedsandsometimesnot,whether thosetopicsareintroducedbyacoursebook,createdfromsourcesbyateacherorbroughtinbyother learners?Icanseethatsomethingsinsomebooks(andevensomebooksaltogether)maynotbeso engagingorappropriateandeithertheteacherormembersofthegroupcouldfindroutestheyfeelare morerelevant,butnotthatallthathappenswillsuitanyonelearnerinagroupallthetime.Sporadic,
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incidentalandaccidentalmakeitsoundasthoughtherewassomethingspecificallyconcreteyouhopedto walkawaywithandthatthebookgotinthewayofthat.Wasthere?Orwasitjustamorecoherentsense ofaccomplishment?Thoughwhatyoulistattheendtheopportunities,supportandimmersionsounds likequitealottowalkawaywith. Reply ScottThornbury September22nd,2013at11:50pm Yes,Sally,therewasalotIwalkedawaywith,asyousay.Butnotalotofthathadtodowiththe coursebook.Itseemsthatthecoursebookfillsakindofvoidthatexistsintheabsenceoftheteacher(or theinstitution)identifyingthespecificneedsand/orinterestsofthelearnersor,havingidentified them,findingthemtoodiversetocaterforasagroup.Whenindoubt,teachthelanguageofshopping. Whatwoulditcosttoaskthestudents,attheoutset,tonominatetopics,andtoaskthemtotake responsibility(usingtheinternet)tofindandpresentmaterialthatrelatestothesetopics?Especiallyat themoreadvancedlevels. Reply SimonGreenall September23rd,2013at12:17am Ifyoucontinuetoprovidesuchlengthy,wellroundedandwelljustifiedargumentsaboutcoursebooks, writteninsuchanengagingandepisodicway,thenImaynotonlygiveupsupportingcoursebooks,Imay evengiveupwritingthem.Thisisoneofthebestlanguagelearning/languageteachingnarrativesIve read,possiblybetterthanADiaryofaLanguageTeacher.Thanks. Reply ScottThornbury September23rd,2013at1:58pm Thankyou,Simon.Thatsverykind.Generous,even.Ihadthefeelingthatmanyofmy,erm, coursebookwritingfriendswouldhavebeenrollingtheireyesandsaying,Oh,therehegoesagain! Reply laoshi September23rd,2013at12:33pm Thankyou,Scott.YourpostexplainexactlythefeelingthatIhaveasateacher:Idonothavetoteach anything,Ihavetobenearthestudentswhentheylearn,Butsometimesthetraditionofteachingmakesit difficult.Noexcuses,wehavetoimprove.AndIabsolutelyagreewithyouaboutthetextbook.Infact, Imtryingtoworkwithoutone. Elisabet Reply ScottThornbury
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September23rd,2013at2:04pm Thanks,Elisabet.AsIsaidtoAdeleabove,itsallaboutteacherdevelopment(and,ratherthan improvement,Ipreferdevelopmentwhichdoesntimplythatteachersarealwaysbadtostartwith!). TheteacherswhotaughtmeSpanishwereallveryexperiencedandhadmanyoftheskillsinplacethat wouldhaveallowedthemtohandleamorestudentdrivencurriculumexpertly.Sowhydidntthey? Asyousay,itsallabouttradition. Reply geoffjordan September23rd,2013at3:23pm Fantastic,yetagain,Scott.Thismakesexcellentreading,and,notsurprisingly,sparkslotsofinteresting comments.Ifindyouranalysisofyourexperiencesconstantlyhonest,perceptive,wellinformedand,most ofall,stimulating. Yourremarksonhowthecoursebookskewsteachingandlearning,despitethebesteffortsofall,and despitethefactthatmanycoursebooksare,inthemselves,wellintentionedandwellassembledare, IMHO,extremelyinsightfulandvaluable,Youmanagetobefairandyettosuggestthattheressomething fundamentallymistakenaboutmuchclassroompractice.TheygivemuchsupporttoyourDogme manifesto! Thisblogstartedwell,andjustkeepsgettingbetter.ItsaswellpacedasanythingIveread,andhas remarkablygoodcohesion. Ihopethatonceyouvefinishedthisfascinatingaccount,youllwriteanarticleonit,wheretheissuesso splendidlyraisedarediscussedinmoredetail. Iliftmyhattoyou. Reply ScottThornbury September23rd,2013at3:44pm Thankyou,Geoff.Thisisverygratifying,comingfromthepersonwhowrotethewholeDogme thingis,inmyopinion,vastlyoverblown. Reply geoffjordan September23rd,2013at4:44pm Imisjudged(underestimated)theimportanceofwhatyouweresayingintheDogmeManifesto, which,oncloserreading,increasinglyappealstome.WhileImonbendedknee,overblownwas apoorlychosenadjectiveinthefirstplace. DavidWeller
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September25th,2013at3:56am Thanksforagreatarticle!Itsgreattoberemindedthatlanguagelearningoftenhappensinspiteofthe coursebook,notbecauseofit. Anareayoutouchedon,thatImfascinatedwith,isthattheemergentconnectionsthatstudentsmakein classwiththeteacher,witheachother,andwiththematerialused.Itsfromthesestimulithatgenuine languageemerges,andofcourse,studentswillingnesstocommunicateisneveraproblem,asthe motivationcomesfromthemselves. Itsgreattoreadyouraccountofputtingyourselfbackinalearnersshoesagain.Lookingforwardtoyour nextpost! Reply

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