Report on Student Opinion: Proposed Enrollment Expansion

October 2013

Dear students, faculty and staff at the Queens University Faculty of Law, The following is a preliminary summary of student opinion regarding the proposed enrolment expansion by the 2013-2014 Strategic Planning Committee at the Queens University Faculty of Law. It is a summary of 37 student opinions shared with us via e-mail and social media. Overall, 2 students were for the expansion, and 35 students were against. It is important to note that this is a preliminary report and reflects the opinion of students before the Strategic Planning Committees official student consultations. Students are both for and against the proposal, with concerns about the school community, quality of education, student support services, and placement rates. This report aims to outline the various concerns of each group, as well as to address the most frequently asked questions. The Queens Law Students Society greatly appreciates the opportunity to make submissions, and we are pleased regarding the open and transparent feedback process the administration seeks to hold. We look forward to continuing discussions, and anticipate releasing a final report after the consultation on October 8th, 2013. An opinion poll will be held on October 16th and 17th to further collect student opinion. If there are any questions or concerns regarding this report, please dont hesitate to contact Naheed Yaqubian, LSS President, at naheed.yaqubian@queensu.ca, or any of your elected student representatives of the Queens Law Students Society. Kind regards, Naheed Yaqubian, LSS President on behalf of The Queens Law Students Society

Majority Report: Against School Expansion

The majority of students who provided feedback to the LSS on the proposal, were against the idea of school expansion. Their opposition can be summarized into four main categories, being School Community, Quality of Education, Student Support Services and Placement Rates.

School Community
The most commonly-mentioned reason for being against the proposal was that of the school community. Many students mentioned that they chose Queens Law over other schools because of the small class sizes and student support, both in first year and upper years. One student mentioned that the quality of relationships you have with your professors, with your colleagues, and opportunities to get to know each other positively would be negatively affected by this expansion.

I have always felt valued and supported here.

Students were also concerned about an increase in size meaning an increase in anonymity, leading to a decrease in attachment to the school community, perhaps even from alumni. Students who have attended schools out West, abroad and in the United States all pointed to staggering differences that resulted from the difference in class size. Being the smallest Ontario law school has been a point of pride for students, many of whom who pointed out that they would often share this as a key benefit of Queens Law. The relationships that students have with each other are also seen as an issue. A student pointed out that the closeness of the Queens community allows our interactions to remain largely face-to-face, with the email about snacking in class at Osgoode held up as an example of the disconnect that occurs with larger class sizes. Ultimately, students felt that admitting more students would lead to more competition and less cooperation and teamwork, negatively affecting not only the student community, but also the quality of the academic experience.

Quality of Education Professors and Clinical Opportunities

On that note, the second most frequent concern raised was that of the quality of education at Queens Law. Students are largely satisfied with the education they are receiving, as exemplified by the recent LSSSE results, and are pessimistic about the impact that admitting more students will have on their quality of education, particularly in upper-year classes. The opportunity to become close with professors through moots, clinical opportunities, individual study projects, and clubs is valued at Queens Law, and was mentioned often. Students fear this close-knit relationship, which greatly enhances the quality of education at Queens, would be diluted with the addition of 105 new individuals.

Practitioners are exceptional teachers.

Students view Queens as a preparatory school for professionals, and are concerned that the vocational aspect of the school is getting lost. One individual mentioned the school should not be getting more money for academics, when what we really need are practitioners, and other students agreed that practitioners are some of the best lecturers and professors at Queens Law. As these would cost less than hiring new, full-time faculty, students anticipate a higher quality of education from a broader array of choices. There were also several concerns about moots and clinical programs, and access to these opportunities. There were questions about how many clinical courses this tuition revenue will help fund, as well as competition. Many students wanted the school to broaden access to clinical programs, and saw competition from 35 other students per year as a direct threat to their ability to obtain legal experience within the insulated fabric of Queens Law.

Student Support Services

Students are incredibly pleased with the high level of student support services available, and concerned that the addition of 105 students will not allocate services where they are needed most, such as in Career Services and Education and Equity Services. More staff must be divided between more students and make it more difficult to maintain a personal connection with the entire class, pointed out one student. The addition of more staff, although admirable in numbers alone, ultimately rose fears about being lost in bureaucracy or administration when trying to change courses or book rooms.

Support at Queens is unprecedented. Jane Emrich knows every student by name.

Helen Connop and Julie Banting will not leave their offices until they have run out of ideas of ways to help you, mentioned one student. The approachable and helpful nature of Student Support Services was closely linked to a lower class size, as well as a potential decrease in one-on-one attention. Many students expressed concerns about not expecting the same level of support, which ran contrary to their reasons for choosing Queens Law.

Placement Rates and the Broader Legal Profession

Increasing enrollment is simply irresponsible in this climate.

The realities of student life once we move beyond the borders of Queens Law cannot be ignored, sated one student. A concern about placement rates and the broader legal profession wove through almost every single aspect of feedback, with concerns about Queens being part of the problem, rather than the solution, of adding to the problem of too many graduates. The articling crisis, although not the schools fault, is a testament to the fact that this issue cannot be ignored.

Students had concerns that the same number of positions would remain available, regardless, and that we should not wait until the legal profession has a massive surplus of teachers before deciding its time to change how law school admissions work. One student pointed out that when you flood the market, you dilute the value of your degree and your skills, and was concerned about how this expansion, taken together with future possible expansions, would change the value of the Queens Law degree to the students.

Students questioned the idea that Queens would maintain its superior placement rate in comparison to other schools. One wrote, Even if we accept that Queens students are so superior to the students of other schools that [we] will all get positions, that means an extra 35 to 50 students at other schools will not. Ask yourself, is that right, either? From a more local perspective, there were concerns that increasing enrolment would foster a hyper-competitive environment, increasing stress among students who compete amongst themselves for articling positions. A student pointed out that arguments in favour of the expansion [seem to be made in] the best interests of the school and not necessarily in the best interests of the students, with a concern that the long-term impact of this decision is not being taken into account.

Minority Report: For School Expansion

A small minority of students welcome the idea of school expansion, for the reasons of Course Offerings and Reputation.

Course Offerings
Students in favour of school expansion pointed out that the number of course offerings at Queens was much smaller than that of other schools such as Osgoode, leading to a tough decision, because there was simply more to choose from. This was seen as a concern to both the quality of education and reputation of Queens Law, especially that we could be losing valuable students to other schools. Offering a broader array of courses would work well to draw new students to the school, as well as to enhance educational opportunities for students that are interested in areas of law that currently have no, or fewer, course opportunities.

More students means that more can be done.

Reputation
Students expressed concern about the reputation of Queens Law, should it continue to stagnate. We desperately need to keep pace in this competitive market, brought up one student. Expanding enrollment was seen as the best way to do this, in order to broaden the number of, and reputation of faculty, by allowing students to gain more clinical opportunities, and ultimately by enhancing the overall quality of education of each student. With a modest expansion, students felt that other students were overreacting to what could be a very welcome opportunity for growth and positive change at Queens Law.

This is not a hugely drastic change.

Frequently Asked Questions

Are we looking at expanding by 35 or 50 students? What are the final numbers? At this point, it looks like the Strategic Planning Committee is reconsidering the original number of 50, to instead add 35 students to the incoming first-year class. This would add 35 students to the yearly target of 165, making each class consist of 200 students. This would add a total of 105 students to the school, making our population 625 up from around 520. (Naheed Yaqubian, LSS President) How are we going to fit these students into our classrooms? Currently, the size of our 6 small section first-year classes range from 28 to 34 students. In the larger classes with two sections, the size of those classes range from 54 to 71 students. If enrollment is increased by 35 students, the plan is to add two additional small sections and cap each small section at 25 students. Thus, in the larger classes with two sections there will be a total of 50 students. With these numbers, there would not be a problem with fitting the students in the classrooms at Macdonald Hall. However, it is important to note that for the 2014-15 transition year (and only for that school year), the first-year Property classes will have 100 students rather than 50 students. The reason is that the funds from the increased enrollment will not be readily available to fully accommodate the increased number of students until the following school year (part of the reason being that students do not need to pay their tuition until September 1st). (Spencer Wong, 2L Faculty Board Representative) Will the quality of the relationships we have with our professors decrease due to the increase in students? The proposed expansion would see smaller first-year class sizes, with eight small sections of approximately 25 students in each. This would rectify some of the space and student-toteacher ratio issues that are being faced by 1Ls this year. Furthermore, the addition of more full-time faculty members would mean that Queens Law student/teacher ratios would be kept the same or could possibly even decrease. (Ryan Wycherley, 3L Faculty Board Representative) That said, plans for popular upper-year classes (Civil Procedure, Business Associations, Evidence, Administrative Law) are still being mapped out, and we look forward to hearing the Administrations plans for them. (Naheed Yaqubian, LSS President) How will this affect the placement rates of students at Queens Law? Placement rates have never been a function of the amount of students admitted into Queens Law, but rather the calibre of the students as well as the reputation of the school

academically. Macleans has consistently ranked Queens Law within the top 6 law schools over the past 5 years (and top 3 within the last 2 years), with 50% of this success being owed to Faculty Journal Citations. It is this high regard in academia coupled with the quality of our students that allows Queens Law to have higher placement rates than most Ontario schools, not the quantity of our students. (Christine Innes, VP Academic) Why do we have to hire faculty to teach? Why cant we hire practitioners? While we currently hire practitioners for some courses, this is not ideal considering that most will have to come from Toronto and are travelling long distances to teach a single course during the week. Furthermore, the research that is done by full-time faculty members helps maintain the reputation of Queens Law, which has been reflected in MacLeans yearly rankings. The continual growth of a healthy research environment allows Queens to attract top professors from Canada and around the world. (Ryan Wycherley, 3L Faculty Board Representative) Why cant we look at other revenue sources like expanding the new undergraduate course, Law 201? The expansion of Law 201 should generate some new net revenue for the school; however, it will take at least two to three years to demonstrate that this is a secure and ongoing source of revenue. Once the Faculty can demonstrate this, it may be permitted to use some of this revenue to support the hiring of (at least) one new Faculty member. Accordingly, expanding Law 201 would not enable the Faculty to increase its numbers to its desired level in the near future. (Lisa Pincus, 2L Faculty Board Representative) How will this affect Equity and Career Services? The proposed expansion of students should allow the school to hire five new Faculty members as well as five new administrative staff (which may include Equity and Career Services staff). The school would remain committed to ensuring that the Equity and Career Services staff would have all the resources they need to continue to provide high levels of service to students. (Lisa Pincus, 2L Faculty Board Representative) How will this affect students access to hands-on experience like clinics and moots? An increase in faculty members is likely to increase the amount of faculty involved in the moot court program. It is also likely to expand the clinical programs currently offered through monetary support. Since there would be an additional 70 students in 2L and 3L combined, this means the ratio of applicants to placements may not change. Access to handson experience will not go down, but will either stay proportionally the same or will increase with a greater diversity of opportunities available. (Deepa Negandhi, 3L Faculty Board Representative)