Prepared by: L.G.

Tharpes Index:
Date: June 21, 2002 DOC Library: Goal 2

Job Code: 320101 DOC Number 151288;

Impact on External
Relations, Belgium
Reviewed by: Cheryl Goodman
Review Date: 7/15/02

Record of Interview

Purpose To Discuss Potential Implications of Eliminating the Visa Waiver Program

Contact Method Meeting

Contact Place U.S. Embassy, Brussels, Belgium

Contact Date June 10, 2002

U.S. Embassy Steven Candy, Acting Political Counselor

Participants Angela Dawkins, Acting Commercial Counselor
Eric Benjaminson, Economic Counselor
Carolyn Johnson, Public Affairs
Joseph Pomper, Consul

Cheryl Goodman, Assistant Director

GAO La Verne Tharpes, Senior Analyst
Lyric Clark, Analyst

Comments/Remarks The embassy officials made the following comments.

• Most Belgians are aware that the September 11 terrorists entered the
Public Affairs United States with valid visas. They are also aware of the failures of
Officer the U.S. agencies, for example lack of cooperation among intelligence
agencies. They are also aware of the vulnerabilities of their passport
and the Belgian government's efforts to correct the problems. If the

Pagel Record of Interview

Prepared by: L.G. Tharpes Index:
Date: June 21, 2002 DOC Library: Goal 2
Job Code: 320101 DOC Number 151288:

U.S. excluded Belgium from the visa waiver program; the Belgians
would analyze the facts. They would conclude that the U.S is blaming
then when the fault lies with the U.S. agencies. They would ask why
they are being blamed especially since they have corrected the
problems with their passports. The European Union would have the
same response.
The press and the public have displayed interest in the visa waiver
review team visit. However, the embassy has not made any
announcement or provided any specific information other than to say
that Belgium was among the first tranche of countries to be visited.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs made similar statements. The Belgian
elites are very informed about this issue and the passport problem,
which has been covered by the press.

Economic U.S. businesses have about $21 billion invested in Belgium. There is
Counselor constant business travel. More importantly, Belgium is the
headquarters of the European Union and NATO. If the U.S. removes
Belgium from the visa waiver program, Belgium would require visas
from U.S. citizens and lobby for all Schengen Agreement countries to
require visas from U. S. citizens. He does not know how this would
affect travel to the U.S. The problem may not be that Belgian will not
get U.S. visas, but that the Belgian government may lack the resources
to meet the demand for visas from U.S. travelers. This may result in
long delays for U.S. citizens wanting to travel to Belgium.
U.S./EU relations are already stretched. Elimination of the visa waiver
program would just add to the problem.
The Belgians could do more against terrorism. If the U.S. drops
Belgium from the visa waiver program it would shock the Belgians.
Maybe elimination of the visa waiver program would force them to re-
evaluate their attitudes.
Elimination of the visa waiver program would probably not effect
trade.

Commercial The Foreign Commercial Service helps U.S. small and medium-sized
Counselor business to enter the European market. There are already
impediments for these companies to conduct business here. The
requirement of a visa may be seen as one more impediment and
discourage these businesses.
The Foreign Commercial Service also has a program to encourage
Belgian tour companies to offer tours to the United States. The
requirement of a visa to visit the U.S, could negatively impact this
program. Belgians have many other countries they can visit. They are
very well traveled. They may visit Spain or Canada instead of the
United States.
Requiring visas may also affect the Commercial Office's resources.
Many Belgian citizens will contact the commercial officer to inquire
about visas and request recommendations.

Page 2 Record of Interview

Prepared by: L.G. Tharpes
Date: June 21, 2002
Job Code: 320101
Political Counselor
Passport Issues
Visas As A Law
Enforcement Tools
PageS
Index:
DOC Library: Goal 2
DOC Number 151288:
Belgium shares the U.S. concerns about terrorists. It does not want to
be a conduit for terrorists to get into the United States.
If the U.S. removes Belgium from the visa waiver program, the
Belgians would see themselves as a target of U.S. blame. Belgian
would say that their removal of the program was unjust and look to
the other Schengen countries for redress. There would be questions
that the U.S. would have to answer: what is our aim, how will removal
of the visa waiver program achieve it, what did the Belgians do wrong,
and how can they fix it? Mr. Candy stated that he has not heard good
answers to these questions.
Removal of Belgium from the visa waiver program could affect U.S.
Belgium cooperation at a time when it is really needed. For example,
the economic counselor has asked the Belgium to freeze the assets of
organizations with links to terrorists without providing evidence of
those links. The Belgian government has complied despite legal risks.
If we remove Belgium from the visa waiver program it may seem to
the Belgians that we do not believe they are cooperating even though
they are helping us.
Stolen or counterfeit Belgian passports are used primarily to get into
Belgium because of its social welfare program and not into the United
States. Many were coming from France en route to England, which
has better social programs than Belgium.
The old version of the passport could still be used to obtain a visa.
However, they will be invalid in a few years. Moreover, the Patriot Act
requires machine-readable passports by October 2003 to travel under
the visa waiver program.
Belgium became a participant of the visa waiver program in 1991, but
did not move to machine-readable passports until 2001. The
Government of Belgium wanted to wait until passport issuance was
centralized before it began issuing a machine-readable visa.
Centralization began in 1998.
The visa interview is an effective tool for detecting intending
immigrants. It is not effective for screening out criminals. For
example, Mr. Benjaminson stated that when he was a consular officer
in Nigeria, a high fraud post, it was difficult to keep track of the fraud
schemes. He was always years behind. The screening is also not
effective in weeding out terrorists if they do not have criminal records
in the United States.
Record of Interview