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Forum Fragrance Discussion Fragrance DIY Extraction of oakmoss and others

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Welcome to Basenotes. If you are a registered member, sign in to remove this message. If you haven't joined us yet, registering will enable you to comment on articles, post in the forums, send private messages, review fragrances, create your own fragrance wardrobe and more.... Click here to register Bottom of Form Results 1 to 15 of 15 Thread: Extraction of oakmoss and others

Thread Tools Show Printable Version Subscribe to this Thread 19th April 2009, 02:46 PM#1 Scentronic View Profile View Forum Posts

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Extraction of oakmoss and others <a href='http://handpickedmedia.co.uk/openx/www/delivery/ck.php?n=ac35e930&cb=INSERT_RANDO M_NUMBER_HERE' target='_blank'><img src='http://handpickedmedia.co.uk/openx/www/delivery/avw.php?zoneid=948&source=_blank&cb =INSERT_RANDOM_NUMBER_HERE&n=ac35e930' border='0' alt='' /></a> <a href="http://handpickedmedia.co.uk/openx/www/delivery/ck.php?oaparams=2__bannerid=2140__ zoneid=948__source=_blank__cb=6bd472de97__oadest=http%3A%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fju mp%2FN530.991084.ROLLUPMEDIA.COM%2FB7438766.2%3Bsz%3D300x250%3Bord%3D6bd472de9 7%3F" target="_blank">< IMG SRC="http://ad.doubleclick.net/ad/N530.991084.ROLLUPMEDIA.COM/B7438766.2;sz=300x250;ord= 6bd472de97?" BORDER=0 WIDTH=300 HEIGHT=250 ALT="Advertisement"></A>

<a target="_blank" href="http://ad.doubleclick.net/click%3Bh%3Dv8/3da8/17/83/%2a/e%3B269107835%3B00%3B0%3B95216433%3B4307300/250%3B53046630/52988060/1%3B%3B%7Esscs%3D%3fhttp://handpickedmedia.co.uk/openx/ www/delivery/ck.php?oaparams=2__bannerid=2140__zoneid=948__source=_blank__cb=6bd472de 97__oadest=http://www.debenhams.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Navigate?langId=1&storeId=10701&catalogId=10001&txt=117824990099&CMP=MJsunshine"><img src="http://s0.2mdn.net/1328917/cmj_sun_300x250.jpg" width="300" height="250" border="0" alt="Advertisement" galleryimg="no"></a> With all these ridiculous guidelines coming out that will probably put an end to most of the fragrances I hold dear, I'm thinking of giving DIY perfumery a try. But not just from the standpoint of mixing oils - I want to grow or obtain the raw materials myself and do the extraction. I've got a piece of lake property that is just overflowing with real live oakmoss. And what the heck... why not grow some jasmine and roses while I'm at it? Add some vanilla and lime extracts, and I've got something along the lines of my cherished Feuille Verte. Of course, it's not quite that simple. But I could see myself getting into this. A niche perfumery specializing in all natural ingredients including oakmoss and jasmine. I could just keep it small and sell to friends. So I'm already reading up on the different methods of extraction, including solvents and macerations etc. Does anyone here do this? Lately I've been wearing: Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah Reply With Quote

19th April 2009, 05:44 PM#2 ultranova3

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others Oakmoss absolute Preparation of Concrete Concrete is prepared by extraction (benzene) with yield 2-4%. Product will be dark green in colour. To improve yield, moss is immersed in water for 6 hours and dried before extraction Preparation of absolute Obtained via alcoholic extraction of concrete for 6 hrs. Yield is approximately 60% and the colour will be dark green. The mixture was cooled down in iced water bath before vacuum filtration to remove all insoluble impurities. Mixture can be decolourized by adding activated charcoal powder followed by ashless powder before vacuum filtration. Ashless powder will aid in filtration. Repeat Filtration as many

times as needed (if the black particle is still around, filtration has to be repeated) The liquid product was distilled under vacuum with high bp, odorless solvent and codistilled to give better color and yield of product. When you are handling benzene and the product, please be extra careful. Benzene is carcinogenic and it is relatively volatile. Please discard organic solvent properly. As you know, oakmoss is an allergen, at the concentration you are handling, you should handle it carefully. There is a article on the production of oakmoss absolute with reduced allergic side effects (International Journal of Cosmetic Science # 14, Issue 3, p 121).

Fenaroli's handbook of flavor ingredients By George A. Burdock, Giovanni Fenaroli Edition: 5, illustrated Published by CRC Press, 2004 ISBN 0849330343, 9780849330346 2009 pages Last edited by ultranova3; 20th April 2009 at 04:26 PM. Reply With Quote

23rd May 2009, 06:40 AM#3 smellyliquid View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others couldn't have put it better myself for the oakmoss the trickiest part is going to be evapping the benzene and recollecting it (you should recollect it to use again) maybe look into trying enfleurage for the jasmines, although to be fully realistic about the time considerations involved, its a hell of a job! Reply With Quote

26th May 2009, 04:40 PM#4 dcampen View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others When you are handling benzene and the product, please be extra careful. Benzene is carcinogenic and it is relatively volatile Benzene is significantly carcinogenic and dangerous. I would strongly recommend against working with benzene. In fact benzene is now considered to be so toxic that I doubt anyone still uses it for oakmoss extraction. Last edited by dcampen; 26th May 2009 at 04:41 PM. All these moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Reply With Quote

24th November 2009, 07:28 AM#5 gido View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others what about oakmoss infusion? no one does that anymore, but i've read that coty used it in his original chypre formula. Reply With Quote

24th November 2009, 06:25 PM#6 vonMises View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others Originally Posted by dcampen Benzene is significantly carcinogenic and dangerous. I would strongly recommend against working with benzene. In fact benzene is now considered to be so toxic that I doubt anyone still uses it for oakmoss extraction. !!!! Benzene causes cancer in about 100% of those who come in contact with it. Reply With Quote

25th November 2009, 04:42 PM#7 janmeut View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries Visit Homepage View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others Infusions are very uncommon in modern perfumery. Before the introduction of solvent extraction these were used a lot. I don't think infusions are commercialy available anymore. More usual solvents these days are pentane, hexane and alike solvents. Alcohol is used directly when the extracting material contains no or little water. As far as I know there are no rules that prohibit the trade in fragrance materials like oakmoss extracts, so purchasing them is probably the best way to get some. Reply With Quote

25th November 2009, 05:12 PM#8 gido View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others i am definitely going to purchase some, actually from you, jan. but i thought it might be fun and interesting to collect some oakmoss on a dry winterday, and to try to make a infusion like they did in the old days of the original chypre. do you know if the result would be any different from what you get with solvent extraction? Reply With Quote

26th November 2009, 06:33 AM#9 janmeut View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries Visit Homepage View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others According to the classic German perfumerbook H. Mann / F. Winter (Die Moderne Parfumerie = "The modern perfumery") an infusion = extract = lavage is made from a pommade. A pommade is the result of enfleurage. When you soak oakmoss in alcohol, you will not get an infusion, you will get a tincture. The formula from this book for tincture of oakmoss is simple: 250 gram Oakmoss (dry, pulverised) 1.25 liter Alcohol Extracting time: 14 days Btw "modern" means in this case: 1932 Reply With Quote

27th November 2009, 04:37 PM#10 Asha View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others According to my herb books, infusion is actually like making a tea. You can infuse plant ingredients by putting them in boiling water, steeping, then straining. Tincture can be made with oil or alcohol, is done at room temperature and is allowed to "steep" for an extended period (days, weeks, months). Reply With Quote

27th November 2009, 08:44 PM#11 Scentronic View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others Originally Posted by janmeut According to the classic German perfumerbook H. Mann / F. Winter (Die Moderne Parfumerie = "The modern perfumery") an infusion = extract = lavage is made from a pommade. A pommade is the result of enfleurage. When you soak oakmoss in alcohol, you will not get an infusion, you will get a tincture. The formula from this book for tincture of oakmoss is simple: 250 gram Oakmoss (dry, pulverised) 1.25 liter Alcohol Extracting time: 14 days Btw "modern" means in this case: 1932 Ok, so what's next? I'm totally new to this! I'm assuming some sort of draining/separation/skimming? What will these quantities yield? What kind of alcohol should I use? Lately I've been wearing: Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah

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27th November 2009, 09:32 PM#12 Asha View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

Scentronic, I think you should use perfumer's alcohol, and let it steep in a closed bottle, in the dark, for several weeks. If I were doing it, I probably would fill a mason jar with the herb, and then pour the alcohol in until full. When you are ready to strain, you can use a collandar or food strainer with cheese cloth for the first pass, then a fine filter paper for the 2nd. I suppose if you want to be more scientific about it, you should record how many grams of plant material fills your jar, and how many ml of alcohol you pour in. Reply With Quote

27th November 2009, 11:53 PM#13 Scentronic View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others

That sounds like it would yield about as much alcohol as you poured in, right? So then what do you do with that solution? Isn't the idea to get it down into a concentrated oil? Fill in the gap... Lately I've been wearing: Windsor, Bois de Santal, Original Santal, Elixir, Douro, Endymion, Reflection, Arcus, Marwah Reply With Quote

28th November 2009, 01:55 AM#14 Asha View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries View Articles

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Re: Extraction of oakmoss and others No, because if you had an EO or absolute, you would dilute it. The tincture when finished should be ready to use, unless you want to dilute further for composing your fragrance. Last edited by Asha; 28th November 2009 at 01:55 AM. Reply With Quote

3rd December 2009, 06:35 AM#15 janmeut View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries Visit Homepage View Articles

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You can filtrate the tincture, and that 's it, ready to use. 250 gram oakmoss + 1.25 liter alcohol will yield about 1.25 liter tincture. You could of course let the alcohol evaporate. I think you should do this in vacuum. Unless you know exactly what you do this is potentially dangerous, hot evaporated alcohol is -combined with airexplosive. In the end you will get a sticky mass that you could either call resinoid or absolute. The yield will be probably not more than a few grams. Reply With Quote

Hi Melodee I dug up my notes on solvent extraction for you. Don't know if it will help or not but maybe you can figure out a home method. 1. Plant material is soaked in solvent (usually hexane). Very gentle heat is applied to the mixture, just enough to evaporate the solvent, but not too much to effect the EO's contained in the extract. This product will seem creamy due to the presence or residual solvents and waxes from the plants. 2. Alcohol is added this " concrete " and is warmed enough to melt it. Stir the mixture. This alcoholic mixture is chilled to precipitate the non-volatile matter. The solution is then filtered and the alcohol is then removed by distillation in a vacuum. The result is an " absolute " Oils extracted by solvents should be used with caution on people with sensitive skin as there will still be a small amount of non-volatile substances and residues of solvent. Unfortunately I'm not too familiar with oakmoss. Best of luck though! -Christina goody10062003

Morning! Many many many thank you's to all of you who answered my questions on creating oakmoss EO.

Unfortunately, your answers have generated a couple more questions! If, the only way to create an EO/type of product with oakmoss is by solvent extraction---how is this done? I realize that in modern times, it's done in plant settings-mechanically operated proccessing--but at some point in the past, it had to be possible to do this on a small scale--how else was it discovered it was possible?? I spent so long at the computer yesterday--I was queasy from all the 'bifocal' up & down movements, reading screens! If anyone knows any good websites--publications--or just 'knows' about this-and is willing to pass the good news my way--why--I'll surely jus luv ya for-ever! Melodee (goody) ..in Goldendale WA, where it almost is erie--the warm weather we've got---just HOW much did that quake/tusami MOVE the earth, anyway?