How to deny a genocide | Abagond

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/how-to-deny-a-genocide/

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How to deny a genocide

Tue 6 Oct 2009 by abagond (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2007/03/30/darfur/)The eighth and last stage of genocide is denying it ever took place. This allows the genocide to continue, either now or sometime in the future. Here are the common ways of to deny a genocide: 1. Dont rock the boat Or the peace talks might break down. Or contracts for oil or arms might be cancelled. Or you will look weak if you call it genocide and do nothing. Just go with flow. 2. We are helping these people! and show outsiders model camps. Like how the Nazis showed the Red Cross Theresienstadt but not Auschwitz or Dachau. See how nice we are! 3. Make it about the numbers if they say 50,000 were killed, you say it was 5,000. Get into that dispute. 4. Make it about words Oh, it is just ethnic cleansing. Oh, it is not about race but land rights and that is not genocide. And so on. Overlooking the fact that if people only of a particular race are dying then it is about race no matter what anyone says or wants to believe. Because that kind of thing is not an accident. 5. Make it about the accusers question their motives. Overlooking the fact that they are telling the truth. 6. Blame history say this kind of stuff goes on all the time. Overlooking the fact that genocide is rare, despite what racists like to believe. 7. Blame bad luck blame it on disease, lack of food, lack of Western aid, etc. Overlooking the fact, say, that these people were driven off their land or moved to a place that cannot support their numbers. A trick favoured by Sudan and America. 8. Blame out-of-control forces after all genocides are often started by paramilitary forces that seem

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How to deny a genocide | Abagond

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/how-to-deny-a-genocide/

to be acting on their own. Overlooking the fact that many of these same forces are secretly supported by the government. If the government is not seriously fighting the force in question, it is receiving its blessing. 9. Blame the victim say the victims started a civil war. Overlooking the fact that there is no military reason for the mass killing of women and children. 10. Dehumanize the victim Theyre Africans. They do these sorts of things to each other. They are not like us. Their lives do not matter. Why do you care? Overlooking the fact that everyones life matters, not just those who are like us or live nearby. 11. Peace matters more than justice Let us forget the past and just move on to give peace a chance. Overlooking the fact that a lasting peace can only be built on justice, otherwise there could be another round of genocide. Genocide is rare. It is not natural - except to a racist. Tens of thousands of women and children of a particular race, religion or ethnicity do not just up and die by accident, not even in war. It is done on purpose, thought out in advance by sick minds. Who tell themselves these lies. See also: Genocide Watch: 12 Ways to Deny a Genocide (http://www.genocidewatch.org/aboutgenocide /12waystodenygenocide.html) with examples from Darfur. I based my post on their list but I changed up things a bit for pedagogical purposes. genocide (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/04/22/genocide/) The eight stages of genocide (../2009/04/22/2009/04/16/the-eight-stages-of-genocide/)- see what the other seven stages are How to argue like a white racist (../2009/10/05/how-to-argue-like-a-white-racist/) I see genocide as an extreme form of racism. Genocide denial reminds me of the sort of things racists say like blameshifting (http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/08/20/blame-shifting/), dehumanizing and blaming the victim and drawing attention away from their own actions. racism is not natural (../2009/09/28/racism-is-unnatural/) Posted in genocide, in the news, racist arguments | 27 Comments

27 Responses
Herneith on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 05:47:04 Dehumanize the victim Theyre Africans. They do these sorts of things to each other. They are not like us. Their lives do not matter. Why do you care? Overlooking the fact that everyones life matters, not just those who are like us or live nearby. Herero and Namaqua Genocide, 1904-1907, 50-70% of the respective populace slaughtered the first genocide of the 20th century. The Belgian Congo estimate of 3-30 million through forced labour(rubber). Armenian Genocide 1915, 1.5 million, The Holocaust, 21 million, estimates vary. Rwanda, Sudan. Peace matters more than justice Let us forget the past and just move on to give peace a chance. Overlooking the fact that a lasting peace can only be built on justice, otherwise there could be another round of genocide.
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How to deny a genocide | Abagond

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/how-to-deny-a-genocide/

Turkey to this day denies the Armenian genocide. The turkish government become enraged when calls for the recognition of this genocide comes up. How soon we forget!

Vindicator on Thu 8 Oct 2009 at 11:33:38 Herneith Says: The Belgian Congo estimate of 3-30 million through forced labour(rubber). More like 7-15 million. Still shockingly evil. Also lets not forget Stalin and what he did to Christians and other ethnicities. Blame history say this kind of stuff goes on all the time. Overlooking the fact that genocide is rare, despite what racists like to believe. That is true. Also what these people tend to forget is that genocides of the past werent as bad as modern day genocides. One reason is the technology and another reason is the ideologies. I am in no way whatsoever justifying these genocides.

Frank Sider I love your website maybe you already know this : http://www.eyesondarfur.org/

on Fri 9 Oct 2009 at 07:10:00

Mira Genocide is rare. It is not natural except to a racist.

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 17:38:04

Are you sure its really racism? What if the victims are of the same race? I thought you were talking about genocide in general.

abagond on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 17:43:58 Genocide does not have to be race-based, true. I wrote that because my experience it is racists who see genocide as natural.

Dochartaigh How to deny Genocide? Read the Bible then say God is all loving!

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 17:44:44

Everything you said in this post reminds me of a stereotypical Christian respond to the Bible.

J on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:01:52 There is another aspect to those old biblical stories of genocide, which I do not believe has been mentioned. And again takes us back to perspectives. For instance archaeolgist argue that the conquest of the
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How to deny a genocide | Abagond

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/how-to-deny-a-genocide/

city Jericho as depicted in the bible story is probably not accurate for a number of reasons. This link touches upon some of the issues/contradictions etc http://www.biblemysteries.com/lectures/jericho5.htm So this needs to be brought into the equation

Mira Thanks for the link, J.

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:05:02

On a side note, some argue first genocide was committed by Homo Sapiens Sapiens (Neanderthals being victims).

J on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:13:10 You welcome, I was not sure whether the link does the argument justice or not. I only produced it to give the most simplistic overview of what some of the problems are when the biblical stories are studied scientifically with regard to some of the biblical stories. Personally I think the link gives a good overview of the issue. I have heard that theory too about neanderthals being killed off by humans. Somewhere within me I am not sure if this is the old anthropological view of colonization as happened 1860 onwards and then projected back. Perhaps I should say here some anthropologist/theorists etc projecting the present into the past

Mira on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:16:52 One note: Neanderthals were humans too. Just a different, um, race. Or species? Its undecided, as far as I know. But we (Homo Sapiens Sapiens) could procreate with them, it is believed. Somewhere within me I am not sure if this is the old anthropological view of colonization as happened 1860 onwards and then projected back. I am not sure I understand this. What are you trying to say?

Thaddeus on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:17:05 On a side note, some argue first genocide was committed by Homo Sapiens Sapiens (Neanderthals being victims). Mira, all definitions Ive seen of genocide call it a PLANNED crime. I highly doubt homo sapiens sapiens had the wherewithall to plan to dispose of homo neanderthalis.

Dochartaigh To J
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on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:17:39

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How to deny a genocide | Abagond

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/how-to-deny-a-genocide/

Well I dont think most things in the Bible actually happened the way it says they did. The problem is most Christians do, and they believe it is justified, because God did it. To Mira Great point about Neanderthals! To abagond Genocide is rare. It is not natural LOL Please. Some people say killing is not natural as well, tell that to the tribes in Papua New Guinea, who until recently were killing and eating each other. To them it was unnatural not to do so, they believed it made them stronger and smarter.

Thaddeus on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:18:50 Folks, lets be real clear about one thing here: killing, war, murder and natural competition are not synonyms of genocide.

J on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:21:24 I am suggesting that since war and conquest is so much a part of human activity. Then accounting for the sudden disappearence of the neanderthals could also explained by this process too, as opposed to something else. So I guess what I am saying ha hais that I am not sure how they died, until further evidence can be obtained? Hope this clarifies

Dochartaigh Thad

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:21:53

That is a period in history that is mostly just speculation, but you are probably right, I doubt they had the mental capacity to plan a mass Genocide.

Dochartaigh Thad

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:26:03

Folks, lets be real clear about one thing here: killing, war, murder and natural competition are not synonyms of genocide. I agree, but the Bible makes it clear that mass extermination of certain tribes was called for by God. Deuteronomy 20:17 comes to mind. You must completely destroy the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, just as the LORD your God has commanded you.

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How to deny a genocide | Abagond

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/how-to-deny-a-genocide/

J With regard to:

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:26:40

Well I dont think most things in the Bible actually happened the way it says they did. The problem is most Christians do, and they believe it is justified, because God did it. Ths is a very good point If we following the trail through a minefield of different and contradictory processes. I think most Christains would say genocide is wrong, but God allowed it back then as part of his plan. However, it is not part of his plan now. This if we trying to present a veridical representation What do you think??

Thaddeus on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:42:10 I am suggesting that since war and conquest is so much a part of human activity. Then accounting for the sudden disappearence of the neanderthals could also explained by this process too, as opposed to something else. Only one probablem with that theory, J: war, in any meaningful sense of the word, didnt exist back then.

Dochartaigh To J

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 18:51:13

Well I think it depends, if they believe God wants it then they would be for it. Most of the Germans during world war 2 were Christians, and Hitler used many speeches claiming God was with the German people, and the Jews were evil because they crucified their messiah. I do not believe the German people would have rallied as strongly behind Hitler if it wasnt for the churches saying they were doing Gods work.

J With regard to

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 21:42:28

Only one problem with that theory, J: war, in any meaningful sense of the word, didnt exist back then. I do not want to necessarily get into the issues of semantics, problems of language, etc If the idea or theory is that the homo sapiens sapiens killed off, exterminated, murdered, killed them off one by one, or even two by two or even the word war which I am defining as a violent conflict bewteen the neanderthals and humans wherby the former lost out and lost their lives. I do understand the IDEA that Mira is putting forth. I hope she understood teh pointthat I was putting across, irrespective of playing with ords, definitions etc.
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How to deny a genocide | Abagond

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/how-to-deny-a-genocide/

I hope everyone is now clear ha ha ha ha

J Thanks Dochartaigh

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 21:45:59

I understand the point you are getting at but I do not wish to address it because I am speaking about the belief system that a Christian has regarding these issues in the bible as opposed to how Christians behave in difficult situations. If you follow my line of reasoning and thought. Speaking of this issue Jehovah Witnesses are proud of their record in Nazi Germany where they refused to support the Nazis whereas the Catholic church did

J And again, if we playing with semantics etc.

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 22:13:14

It all depends on your definition of genocide which will in effect determine whether homo sapiens sapiens did undertake genocide or not? As it stands here, the definition of genocide is predicated upon what the aggressor does ie plans the systematic act to kill every neanderthals etc. However, if genocide is defined by what happens and/or the effects upon the victim and in terms of what the Neanderthals lost. In this present scenario it would be a genocide, since they were wiped from the face of the earth.

Dochartaigh on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 22:16:55 There has been a general shift in conciseness among Christians, and most human beings in the last few hundred years. God seems to be getting nicer and nicer, the Bible hasnt changed just mans perception. It is just another reason why most human beings are Denying Genocide in the bible and in other circumstances. We have become nicer as a whole, and dont want to image the monstrosities that our ancestors or their gods committed. Abagond is guilty of this himself just by being a Christian, and excusing these ancient people of there violence and crime, because god told them to.

abagond Oh yes, just bursting with niceness.

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 22:27:38

J I am not quite sure what you say Dochartaigh.

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 22:30:16

It is not clear to me whether this response is a new position on your part. I dont think Christians deny what took place in the Old Testament but see it as God moving in mysterious ways

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How to deny a genocide | Abagond

http://abagond.wordpress.com/2009/10/06/how-to-deny-a-genocide/

Dochartaigh To J

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 22:49:32

Well Christians tend to sugarcoat these thing more today with phrases like God works in mysterious ways and such, whereas years ago they were sinners and deserved to die. Just like so many Christians years ago believed slavery was okay because the Bible said so. Now there are quite a few liberal Christians who take most of the old testament as metaphor, and dont even believe Adam and Eve were real people.

Dochartaigh abagond Compared to 2,000 years ago people are bursting with kindness.

on Fri 26 Mar 2010 at 22:50:18

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