MEP BIM Software Comparison (By a BIM expert)

I was recently asked by an ex-colleague which MEP BIM software his new company (an MEP Contractor) should take on for their first BIM MEP project. They currently have a capable 2D AutoCad draughting team and would like to keep them. My reply is below:

Revit MEP
ADVANTAGES :Intuative modeling. Good Design features: Direct Interaction with Revit Arch & Structure. Good Drawing Sheet Management. Broad Technical Support DISADVANTAGES: Steep learning curve from AutoCAD to Revit. Limited Revit users = more expensive. Not a great out-ofthe-box MEP library SUMMARY: Revit is a capable and popular software, more popular with Designers than Contractors. You need to invest in heavy training or hire people more expensive than AutoCAD people if you are to use Revit.

AutoDesk AutoCAD MEP

ADVANTAGES: Easy-to-use Modeling. Relatively easy to train AutoCAD Drafters. Good Drawing Sheet Management. DISADVANTAGES: Not Seamless for pre-fab or CAD-CAM. Not a great out-of-the-box MEP library SUMMARY: AutoDesk AutoCAD MEP is a good option if you have an existing AutoDesk AutoCAD based Team and you want to move into your first 3D/BIM project quickly.

MAP CADMEP+
ADVANTAGES: Relatively easy to train AutoCAD Drafters. Good out-of-the-box MEP library. Well supported specs such as DW144. Good Fabrication & CAD-CAM ability. Good BOQ extraction

DISADVANTAGES: More expensive because you have to buy an AutoCAD license in addition for it to sit on. Not as easy to model or as intuative as the other two.

SUMMARY: MAP CADMEP+ is the package to choose if you want to use your 3D models for Fabrication purposes. And because it is more "Real-Life" than the other two, it's BOQ Take-offs are more accurate. Although your initial investment would be greater.

FINAL NOTE: Whatever you choose for your 3D drawing package, make sure you get a good 3D review package such as NavisWorks to take full advantage of it. It really does make a difference to 3D drafting, although it is expensive, but you could get a deal from Autodesk if you buy either AutoCAD MEP or Revit. If I can add a few additional points on Revit, for me one of the major limitations are that when you try and develop a duct system, you have to break the network down into small system segments otherwise every modification you make takes ages to resolve as the software recalculates the system for every change. To finalize the network you then have to reassign all the ducts to one system and recalculate. Editing the network once it is complete means breaking the system again to avoid the performance hit.

Inline components in ducts and pipes cannot be reliably exchanged once they are placed, which makes it tricky to follow a proper BIM workflow. Electrically it is very poor with little support beyond power and lighting (no lightning protection devices for example) and when it comes to generating BOQs and calculating volt drops, the cable length calculations are at best primitive, and at worst downright dangerous. Cable lengths are calculated from a projected Z coordinate above the component directly to the supplying board and takes no account of the containment routing. Only American AWG cable sizes are allowed which means if you are working outside the US, electrically it is almost useless. I don't think the definitive MEP BIM application has been developed yet, every one of them has significant defects and it is difficult to predict which developer will deliver the goods in the long term. Beyond Autodesk and MAP there are a number of other MEP tools worth considering (DDS, Magicad, Tricad, DigitalProject, Bentley...) but none of them are the without drawbacks. The German Tricad package is the one which, from a functionality and concept point of view has impressed me most, however it is typically German complex (German engineers just love software that is difficult to master) and primarily used in the automotive and industrial sector with little support for AEC, and no support at all for BIM exchange formats. Hi Guy's, must say I pretty much agree with you both and carrying on from Brendan's points regarding some other software available I thought you may be interested in checking out Plancal Nova. It's another German software which is already widely used across Germany and parts of Europe, I believe they are currently developing this for the UK market and from what I have seen it operates quite similar to Revit with a lot of Design features and inputs. It also includes it's own reviewing tool very similar to Navisworks which I thought was quite appealing as this is included with the package. Although I haven't used it and only attended a demo I thought it seemed quite user friendly with the option to draw using touch screen (if available). Plancal also seem quite accommodating with regards to tailoring to your requirements. It seems, as Brendan stated, that we are a long way off having a package that "has it all". Does anyone have any thoughts on MEP software tailored to specific phases of a project? I would say Revit or Planca Nova (based on Martin's description) is better for design phase; and CADMEP+ or MagiCAD is better for construction phase. Are the developers targeting the Project Build phases? Or will there eventually be a handful of MEP BIM software offerings that accommodate the project from concept through to FM? And lest we forget, the Shop Drawings are still a contractual deliverable, so the software must be able to manage the drawing sets; which I think Revit & AutoCAD MEP do very well. Would a technical merger of Revit & CADMEP+ software get us close to this ultimate MEP BIM Package? Ducts can't be assigned to systems in Revit MEP, only equipment, terminals and accessories can. Ducts then feed from data off of equiment which is connect to a system. Revit 2012 you can turn calculations off by system. Inline components can be exchanged provided your library is solid. Latest electrical can do volt drops, are you talking conduit or wire? In regards to calcs are you talking about the Demand factors, load classification types, which you can customise. You can also load in control families nested in equipment to build additional control options such as for lighting protection devices, and apply it's own controlling options.
September 6, 2011

Martin

Martin M. Lee We have started getting consultants models in Revit from stage C design which we are then being novated to take through to stage F and then on to construction issue in CADMEP+. We are still however getting Stage C models in CADMEP+ and the traditional single line pdf's at Stage F to coordinate into full models. We have just started using MEP 2012 purely because of the current demand but prefer to use CADMEP+ to prodce construction issue

and shop drawings. We have also picked up iConstruct as an add on to Navis to help facilitate the 4D and 6D. A merger of the two systems would be ideal, there is FABMEP available but the cost is high just to allow for conversions between the two systems. As for the drawing packages going through to FM, the cost of the hardware, software and training may well be too big a lump for most clients to swallow if they can even see a requirement for it.
September 6, 2011

Pan

Pan D. Lee, a technical merger for Revit MEP and CADMEP+ is almost here. Its called FABMEP and swaps from Revit to CADMEP then back with full intellegence. I believe that it has been in beta stage for some time. We have had it as a company for a little over a year and its success rate is dependant on the quality of the Revit model recieved from the consultants. Unfortuantely, the Revit models that we are recieving to date are pretty poor. Fittings not drawn correctly, no attention to services coordination resulting in far too many clashes to simply swap over to fabrication, generic fittings that while are OK for design, the designer needs to appreciate the spacial contraints of the equipment they are using. simply drawing a generic piece that will in no way resemble the true size of the actual object causes all sorts of problems. Just my two bobs worth. Pan
September 6, 2011 Brendan

Brendan M. Adam, I'm pleased to hear you can switch off the auto recalc in 2012, we are still on 2011 unfortunately... Regarding the volt drop calcs, yes I know that it does calculate them, but volt drop is a product of cable length, and we have found that the length calcs can be up to 26% out, which can have a significant impact on the calculated volt drop and in cases where the VD is at the limit, it will select the wrong size cable. What it should be doing is taking reference from the associated containment as it does in other programs. Martin, Plancal is similar to several other MEP products from the German speaking countries, I worked there for a while and have seen most of them in action. Firstly, they are all deeply connected with the prevailing DIN/VDI/VDE standards over there, which don't transfer well beyond a few Eastern European countries. Secondly, the German speaking countries have a unique set of documentation requirements due to the regulations over there, which affects the way these products are designed. For example, all of the symbols are different from those used in the US/UK and widely used internationally. This means the 2D output will be unacceptable for many, and you will need to generate a complete custom symbol library, if the vendor hasn't already done so (none of them has, from my experience). The 3D libraries are also exclusively based on local components, a significant number of which are not on the international market. BOQ output will be based on GAEB/VOB/Datanorm which means nothing to anyone familiar with CSI divisions or Uniformat. Finally, and probably most importantly, while they have some interesting features, from a usability context, you will be tearing your hair out after a few days... I have yet to see, for example, a German AEC product that has been properly translated into English, and has good English documentation.
September 7, 2011

Martin

Martin H. Hi Brendan, your quite right that Plancal is not ready for the UK market at the moment, but I think it is good that companies such as Plancal are looking to get in the UK/US market, it was only recently I attended the

demo with Plancal and could see that they have already begun developing the software with respect to UK specs such as DW144 etc. whether it takes off or not, who knows (probably not) but I feel the more competition for the leading vendors such Autodesk and MAP the better as this will hopefully lead to what I think we would all like to see, 'something like CADMEP+ operating in a Revit platform at a more affordable price'.
September 7, 2011

Brendan

Brendan M. From my experience, the only way a German/Swiss developer is going to have any impact in the UK/US/International market is if they take it seriously, employ the right people locally (and plenty of them, product managers, engineers, technical writers, marketing) and avoid the temptation of launching before the product is pretty close to being ready for market. You wouldn't try and sell a car with only 3 wheels, no seats and a petrol tank without a filler cap, but for some reason, software vendors think it's worthwhile to launch products that are similarly handicapped... (Been there, got the T-shirt) BTW: Tekla has just been bought by Trimble, who also have other interesting BIM related products, I'd love them to get hold of someone like MAP or DDS and drive development on a common platform, away from DWG/RVT. Trimble have the financial clout, I really hope they have the ambition to become a big player in the BIM field.
September 7, 2011

Martin

Martin H. Now that would be interesting.

September 7, 2011

Mark

Mark B. Hi Brendan, I understand Trimble were in discussion previously with MAP to acquire them, however discussions faltered. They acquired QuickPen in 2009. How does that rate as an HVAC modelling/coordination tool?
September 8, 2011

Brendan

Brendan M. Hi Mark, from what I gather, QuickPen isn't a patch on CADmep+, much lower functionality, and interoperability.
September 18, 2011

Lee

Lee C. Gents, I have another question pertinent to this discussion: Have any of you used MagiCAD, and what do you think if you have? We have a demonstration soon.
October 19, 2011

Brendan

Brendan M. Hi Lee, I would be very interested to hear what you think of MagiCAD for Revit MEP, what does it bring to the party, how applicable it is here in ME?
October 22, 2011

Wahid H.

Wahid H. M. I don't really use MagiCAD before, and I would like to hear from who are using or test deeply MagiCAD more in terms of BIM interoperability, how much design calculations integrate within the process... I've got from MagiCAD demonstration that; MagiCAD includes several modules, each fully compatible with Revit MEP and support IFC, as documentation management much easier editing and customizing objects symbols and tags than Revit, and bills of materials also are produced in real time of installation/modeling. MagiCAD supports real manufacturers' product selection through plugins such as Furhoffs, Lindab, stberg which seems as Brendan mentioned, that contents libraries are exclusively based on local European manufacturers, a significant number of which are not on the international market specially in the ME. There is also installation/modeling tools which is modeling dialog guides into the right choice of different independent installation possibilities. Design calculations are widely supported with detailed system sheets with technical warning if any, sound calculations are supported also and able to be stored into Revit project. I understood that sprinkler calculations in MagiCAD are certified. Finally, Multiple MagiCAD versions have been supported in workstation along different projects.
January 12, 2012

Chris

Chris G. I agree with Lee's take on the MEP software. Having used several CAD programs over the years (Quickpen, Eastcoast, CADduct & CADmep) a good fitting library is a must and the software must be fairly easy to learn as most of the people doing the layout are tradesman with AutoCad training. Regarding ductwork software, most larger sheetmetal contractors CAM their CAD files to a shop cutting system and need some type of software that will perform that task. FYI, we used cadduct and it required lots tweaking out of the box but once all the problems were fixed it, performed well. In closing, I don't see Revit MEP (right now) being the choice for a sheetmetal contractor. Also, Navisworks is a must!
January 13, 2012

Carsten

Carsten M. To start I have to tell that Im not the MEP-CAD expert in our company - but our electrical cad designers prefer Magicad for cabletrays in 3D modelling. It also have a good library for electrical components (switches, outlets, sockets etc) . At the current project im designer on we also use the magicad projectfile for counting all equipment (- cables for light and sockets)