Interactive Panel 2: Engaging Governments

Wednesday 14

May
2:30pm

Session reporter: Victor Kuo

Summary of the content of the session:

Social Investment Business (Jonathan Jenkins)
Government has helped create social finance bonds, $1B dollars wholesale social investment
fund, and social investment tax relief, G8 Social Investment Task Force, Investment Contract
Fund to help get ready. Without the government, none of this would have happened. 1
Pound turns into 35 pounds. Government engagement is important. Its frustrating, but its
the most impactful. It is the only way we can achieve scale and systemic change.

Benedict Cheong (Temasek Foundation)
Temasek was set up in 2007 to contribute to human and social development. If you have
strong institutions, with leaders, and connections, thats a formula that leads to
development. Our strategies include capacity building, train the trainers, multipliers,
education, public administration, and management. We work with government a lot, for
scale and systemic improvement. We engage the ministry of education in Vietnam,
Indonesia. If you get the top leaders engaged, a few things happen: 1) signaling, you get
the right to the hierarchy below, especially in Asia, 2) government leaders can mobilize
their resources to engage in counterpart funding, 3) they are the ones to lead and
implement the projects. Only through working with government can they achieve the
objectives that they want to achieve. Challenges: breaking promises, expectations of further
support. Good news, there are high spots, to multiply the learnings through the system,
teachers of teachers in education.

Amitav Virmani (ARK India)
ARK is a UK based charity for 12 years set up by hedge fund managers. Focus in 1) child
protection, 2) education, and 3) health. We entered India to focus on education because of
the challenges. In the last 6 years, we are a catalyst, to run programs at scale. Pilot programs,
and then scale. We have worked with governments to define standards. We worked with a
state of India and were given a proposal by the commissioner to manage 120,000 schools in
the state. He gave us 2-page proposal to evaluate schools. We worked on an evaluation
proposal to evaluate 120,000 schools. We went back 3 months later, presented it to the
commission, and he liked it. 3 months later, the commissioner was gone, replaced by

someone from labor. Didnt like it, then 2.5 years, 4 commissioners changed, and finally got
one to sign. But the value was so high.

Mairi Mackay (Social Enterprise British Council)
Global council works in Beijing. 1) We work with governments in East Asia on urgent matters
such as inclusive economic development. Myanmar is an example. We also focus on 2)
collaborating for impact, to the point of systems change. Thats hugely important.
Opportunities for partnerships and increasing scale. 3) Cant and opportunity are about
leadership.

Questions from the Audience:

Understanding government, how we can engage them from the early beginning of program
development? Government representatives are excited to be involved with partnerships.
[Mairi] My answer is that its more about convergence and telling a story of value. So
government is one piece, and you have to understand who you need on the team and build
relationships. Theres a huge need to be creative about collective impact stories. When we
talk about government, we default to dry, reports instead of videos to demonstrate value.
[Amitav] Important to engage all levels, but thats a flaw, because theyre not the ones
signing the contract. At some point in time, it will not work. Someone will ask, why are we
doing this? Everyone in the system needs to have an ah ha moment of why theyre doing
it.
[Mairi] It is not about convincing, but having people enter into what youre doing, and how
to influence the change.
[John Godfrey, philanthropic fund raising consultant] Im observing the effort required to
engage the government, but how do you assess your own return on investment? In a
worthwhile way? What kind of conversation do I need to have with myself? [Benedict] if you
want to ripple through the whole system, you must be involved. In Asia, two words: 1)
trust, some agencies saw us friendly, so worked with them. 2) Face, the second operative
word in Asia. Whatever we do must not make them look bad. You cannot say, You need
this. You must work with them to identify their needs. Dont let them loose face.
[Casey Chu, chair of fundraising for NUS, SMU] Comment. Pleased to see this topic of
engagement governments. There are government and there are governments. Its a
spectacular example of what is good to do, but it insufficiently acknowledged. When you
give, you get a 250% deduction. At the university, you get 1.5 : 1 matching. For arts, you can
GD. This is exemplary behavior, but unrecognized. We should rank government with how
helpful they area. AVPN and EVPN are the only two who can do this. Just as in any other
country, or sector, you worked with them all.
When we engage governments, they neglect what we are doing. They are supportive and
fund with us, and then they take over whatever were doing! The government will take over

our work and will not recognize us. They learn from us but then dont recognize us.
[Benedict] Im ok. Its not about me or the foundation. If you want to continue working on it,
ok! You should let them be take credit as the founders. We did a training program, and then
they applied this to other programs. It saved $500,000. In Singapore let them take
ownership, because thats where they should go.
Getting out, exit, with government is the harder task. Defining exit is more important. Its
about getting the government to realize 20 years later, you the government will be doing
it. So we, as the foundation, dont want it anyway.
[Benedict] If youre interested in development, the definition of need and solution must
come from the community. We are in a way a servant to the community. The power is with
them.
[Dahlberg] What are practical experiences or tips that have helped you open doors, to turn
the levers of impact when working with government? Experience with a middle eastern;
these governments work because there is someone who does more work than average while
others do less. It was the COO of the Economic Development Board who made things move.
And the only way to get him was to wait by the elevator or at the spa to talk with him!
When dealing with corruption, have a frank conversation with the political leadership. We
understand you need to create impact. You can use us to do the work. Another set of tips is
to: offer up my car, so I ride with government official and have my meeting with him in the
car, and offer to write up speaking points for commissioners speeches and get time with
him. Finally, have a meal or drink with them.
[?] Entry and exit. Ive worked with 45-55 nonprofits. They have a grand idea to develop a
project, make sure it works, hand it over to government, and then scale. Often political
masters have decided they just push it off and then move on. Why dont nonprofits say, we
will do the program, and the government will outsource the project to us, indefinitely. Why
not say, you legislate, you regulate, and you collect funds, but you let us to manage the
selection.
[Andrew] Building a relationship in a large organization means you build leadership with a
large organizations.
Truism: governments hire smart people. They take the brightest. I believe government
people are not bad, but the systems make them under-perform.
[Benedict] there is a moving paradigm, shifting. Philanthropy and NGOs go in where the
government has failed. Alternative is to go where there is a need! Treat them as partners.
[Mairi] Trust is a huge piece. Measurement and metrics, evaluation will take off in next 2-3
years. Trust will be central. With the government, you need to be clear how we do that
with government.
[Jonathan] too easy to say its too hard to engage. Its our obligations. I think you can move
with urgency to drive systematic change without government.




Feedback/Take-Aways for the AVPN:
Government engagement is important, but its frustrating, but its the most impactful. It is
the only way we can achieve scale and systemic change.
If you have strong institutions, with leaders, and connections, thats a formula that leads to
development.
If you want to ripple through the whole system, you must be involved. In Asia, two words: 1)
trust, some agencies saw us friendly, so worked with them. 2) Face, the second operative
word in Asia. Whatever we do must not make them look bad.
Getting out, exit, with government is the harder task. Defining exit is more important. Its
about getting the government to realize 20 years later, you the government will be doing it.
So we, as the foundation, dont want it anyway.