Report-Health and Wellbeing Demand of Expatriates in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam, by Rebecca

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8ebecca Mayer
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AuLhor: 8ebecca Mayer
1lLle: PealLh and wellbelng demand of expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy

1here are few academlc papers abouL Lhe healLh care need of expaLrlaLes ln SouLh-LasL-Asla, and none
abouL expaLrlaLes ln vleLnam. 8uL healLh care lnsLlLuLlons especlally ln larger clLles llke Po Chl Mlnh ClLy
are dependenL on lnformaLlon abouL Lhelr cllenLs Lo be able Lo lmprove healLh care servlces. 1hls sLudy
provldes a flrsL lnslghL lnLo healLh relaLed lssues of expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.
A quanLlLaLlve sLudy, lncludlng an onllne and a Lelephone survey were conducLed. arLlclpanLs were
asked abouL Lhelr llfe ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, Lhelr healLh care needs, Lhelr preferred healLh care provlders
and Lhe klnd of LreaLmenLs Lhey are accesslng. lurLhermore, quallLaLlve face-Lo-face lnLervlews
compleLed Lhe work and provlded a deeper undersLandlng of expatriates thoughts and emotions
regardlng Lhelr healLh care experlences ln vleLnam.
1he resulLs of Lhe analysls show LhaL healLh care and healLh relaLed lssues are ma[or concerns of
expaLrlaLes whlle llvlng ln vleLnam. referred healLh care provlders are prlvaLe hosplLals and cllnlcs.
ubllc hosplLals are unpopular, because of Lhelr bad repuLaLlon or bad experlences expaLrlaLes had
Lhere. 1hey are assoclaLed wlLh low hyglene, crowdedness and sLaff lacklng sklll, as well as language
barrlers and mlsslng LrusL. Complalns abouL prlvaLe hosplLals are mosLly abouL hlgh prlces and Lhe lack
of speclallzed care.
Lven lf mosL of Lhe expaLrlaLes access regular medlcal care ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, Lhe analysls lndlcaLes
LhaL for more complex LreaLmenLs and dread dlseases expaLrlaLes prefer Lo fly home or abroad.
1he flndlngs of Lhe sLudy suggesL LhaL lmprovemenLs on speclallzed care ln Lhe prlvaLe secLor and
lmprovemenLs on publlc medlcal care on Lhe mosL baslc level has Lo be done, Lo make expaLrlaLes feel
safe when accesslng healLh care ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.

<#7*/3)4= expaLrlaLlon, expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, healLh care need, wellbelng, healLh care
provlders, quanLlLaLlve sLudy, quallLaLlve sLudy

8ebecca Mayer
3

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1. lnLroducLlon .......................................................................................................................................... 4
1.1. 8ackground ................................................................................................................................... 4
1.1. Cb[ecLlve ....................................................................................................................................... 4
1.2. MeLhods and procedures .............................................................................................................. 4
1.2.1. Cnllne survey ........................................................................................................................ 4
1.2.2. 1elephone survey .................................................................................................................. 4
1.2.3. lace-Lo-face lnLervlews ......................................................................................................... 3
1.2.4. rocedures ............................................................................................................................ 3
2. roflle of Lhe quesLloned expaLrlaLes ................................................................................................... 3
2.1. uemographlc characLerlsLlcs......................................................................................................... 3
2.1.1. Cnllne Survey ........................................................................................................................ 3
2.1.2. 1elephone Survey.................................................................................................................. 6
2.1.3. lace-Lo-face lnLervlews ......................................................................................................... 6
2.2. lncome level .................................................................................................................................. 6
2.3. Annual spendlng on healLh care and sources of flnance for healLh care ..................................... 6
3. Expatriates life in Ho Chi Minh City...................................................................................................... 7
3.1. PealLh and wellbelng .................................................................................................................... 7
3.2. Ceneral concerns .......................................................................................................................... 7
4. PealLh care need of expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy ............................................................................ 8
4.1. lnformaLlon abouL healLh care ...................................................................................................... 8
4.2. klnd of LreaLmenLs ........................................................................................................................ 8
4.3. referred healLh care provlders .................................................................................................... 9
4.4. 8emarks abouL lmprovemenLs.................................................................................................... 11
4.3. LlmlLaLlons................................................................................................................................... 12
3. Concluslon ........................................................................................................................................... 13
6. Appendlx ............................................................................................................................................... A

8ebecca Mayer
4
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1here are few papers abouL expaLrlaLes need on healLh care ln vleLnam. lnformaLlon ls found only on
expatriates blogs and on health insurance websites, which are promoLlng Lhelr servlces.
lor healLh care provlders Lhe knowledge abouL Lhe healLh care need of expaLrlaLes ls essenLlal. 1hey
need Lo know whlch servlces Lhey can offer and how Lo address Lhls LargeL group.
WlLh Lhe rlghL ad[usLmenL of Lhelr servlces Lo Lhe needs of expaLrlaLes, lmprovemenLs on healLh care
among Lhe expaLrlaLes communlLy can be done.
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1he goal of Lhls survey ls Lo ldenLlfy Lhe healLh and wellbelng demand of expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.
Therefore expatriates choice of healLh care provlders, Lhe klnd of LreaLmenLs Lhey are accesslng ln Po
Chl Mlnh ClLy, Lhelr general wellbelng and worrles, Lhelr lncome level, as well as Lhe amounL of healLh
care expenses and Lhelr source of flnanclng was examlned.
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Slnce Lhere ls a lack of academlc papers ln Lhls fleld an onllne survey based on Lhe sLaLemenLs of
expatriates on various expatriates blogs and on Lhe personal experlences of Lhe auLhor has been
creaLed. 1he onllne survey was promoLed Lhrough varlous soclal medla, llke facebook, expaLrlaLes blogs
and Lhrough personal conLacLs. lurLhermore, Lngllsh language schools, lnLernaLlonal sporL clubs and
organlzaLlons ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy were conLacLed and asked Lo share Lhe llnk Lo Lhe survey wlLh Lhelr
forelgn sLaff. lf noL menLloned expllclLly Lhe numbers ln Lhls reporL wlll be Laken from Lhe onllne survey.
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WlLh Lhe resulLs of Lhe onllne survey anoLher quesLlonnalre was conducLed. 1hese quesLlons were asked
vla Lelephone Lo paLlenLs aL Cao 1hang Lye PosplLal.
1hls second sLep guaranLees LhaL lnLervlewees have had healLh care experlences ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy
already and Lherefore have a deeper undersLandlng of Lhe healLh care sysLem ln vleLnam and Lhelr own
healLh care needs.
8ebecca Mayer
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A Lhlrd meLhod, personal lnLervlews, was chosen Lo dlscover Lhe LhoughLs and emoLlons of parLlclpanLs
when speaklng abouL Lhelr own personal experlences wlLh healLh care ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy. uependlng
on Lhelr sLorles, lndlvldual quesLlons and focus polnLs could be made.
lurLhermore an experL lnLervlew wlLh Lwo represenLaLlves of a healLh care lnsurance consulLlng
company (ll-ConsulLlng) was conducLed.
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1hls paper has been dlvlded lnLo flve parLs. AfLer Lhe lnLroducLlon, whlch conLalns Lhe background of Lhe
sLudy, Lhe ob[ecLlves and Lhe meLhods used, Lhe second parL deals wlLh Lhe proflle of Lhe respondenLs,
and ls dlvlded lnLo Lhe dlfferenL lnLervlew meLhods. ChapLer Lhree presenLs Lhe wellbelng and Lhe
concerns of expaLrlaLes whlle llvlng ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy. ln Lhe fourLh secLlon Lhe healLh care need of
expaLrlaLes ls dlscussed. lL focuses on flve key Lhemes: lnformaLlon procuremenL, Lypes of LreaLmenLs,
healLh care provlders, healLh care concerns and remarks abouL lmprovemenLs ln Lhe healLh care secLor
ln vleLnam. llnally, Lhe concluslon glves a brlef summary and crlLlque of Lhe flndlngs.
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33 lndlvlduals reLurned Lhe quesLlonnalre, from whlch 43 compleLed Lhe whole form. 1hls number ls no
represenLaLlve sample of the expatriates community in Ho Chi Minh City and Lherefore flgures and
percenLages need Lo be lnLerpreLed wlLh cauLlon. 1haL means LhaL Lhe sLudy [usL offers a small lnslghL
lnLo oplnlons and Lrends of expaLrlaLes regardlng healLh care ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy. lL glves Lhe
opporLunlLy Lo obLaln a flrsL ldea, whlch sub[ecLs and lssues are relevanL.
1he ma[orlLy of people who parLlclpaLed ln Lhe onllne survey are beLween 23-44 years old.
1he unlLed SLaLes, unlLed klngdom, lrance and Cermany are Lhe counLrles where mosL of Lhe
respondenLs come from (wlLh seven or elghL people from each counLry). llve expaLrlaLes are from
AusLralla. 1he resL spllLs up Lo oLher counLrles ln Lurope and Asla.
lL was noL posslble Lo lnvesLlgaLe slgnlflcanL relaLlonshlps beLween demographlc daLa and provlded
answers Lo Lhe survey, caused Lhrough Lhe small sample slze.
8ebecca Mayer
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1he Lelephone survey was held wlLh roughly 10 of Lhe lnLernaLlonal paLlenLs aL Cao 1hang Lye
PosplLal, whlch means a LoLal of 20 paLlenLs. 13 people were male and flve female. 1haL correlaLes wlLh
a derlvaLlon from [usL under 4 wlLh Lhe acLual dlsLrlbuLlon of Lhe lnLernaLlonal paLlenLs aL Cao 1hang
Lye PosplLal. More Lhan half of Lhe respondenLs have been llvlng ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy for more Lhan
Lhree years.
1he paLlenLs quesLloned are beLween 28 and 73 years old, Lhe mean ls 42 years. 30 of Lhe respondenLs
come from lrance, anoLher 13 from Lhe unlLed klngdom. 1he oLher respondenLs are from norLh
Amerlca, Asla and AusLralla. 8espondenLs from boLh, Lhe onllne and Lhe Lelephone survey, mosLly come
from Lurope or Lhe unlLed SLaLes. Cnly a small number of Lhose lnLervlewed are from AusLralla or Asla.
1hls does noL reflecL Lhe expaLrlaLe communlLy ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, ln whlch qulLe a hlgh percenLage
comes from !apan, Chlna and SouLh korea. 1hls group could hardly be reached, because of Lhe
researchers own orlgln (Lurope) and Lhe language barrler.
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1he personal lnLervlews were conducLed wlLh one AusLrallan, one Canadlan and one Slngaporean.
1hey are all worklng ln dlfferenL areas (ConsulLlng, LducaLlon, and 1ourlsm) and have sLayed ln vleLnam
for aL leasL Lhree years. 1hls ensures LhaL Lhey have developed Lhelr own llfesLyle and have a feellng for
Lhelr wellbelng ln vleLnam and lL lncreases Lhe chance LhaL Lhey know abouL healLh care ln Po Chl Mlnh
ClLy and LhaL Lhey have made healLh care experlences Lhemselves.
1he experL lnLervlew wlLh lf-ConsulLlng was conducLed wlLh a vleLnamese woman, who ls responslble
for lrench cllenLs, and wlLh a Luropean sLaff, who ls, among oLher Lasks, responslble for MarkeLlng.
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1he mean lncome of mosL of Lhe expaLrlaLes, quesLloned ln Lhe onllne survey lles beLween $20.000 -
$39.999 a year. lL musL be noLed, LhaL a quarLer of Lhe respondenLs preferred noL Lo dlsclose Lhelr
salary. 1he salary reflecLs Lhe prlmary area of employmenL of expaLrlaLes: 1he educaLlon secLor, ln whlch
38 of Lhe respondenLs work.
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Accordlng Lo Lhe answers ln Lhe onllne survey expatriates average spendlng on healLh care a year (ln
uS-uollar) ls $1284.
1hls corresponds wlLh a number provlded by lf-consulLlng, whlch esLlmaLes LhaL Lhe average premlum
for a healLh lnsurance for expaLrlaLes ls $1300 a year (lnLervlew lf-consulLlng, llne number 437).
8ebecca Mayer
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This number can widely vary depending on the expatriates health care need and if the expatriate has a
healLh care lnsurance or pays ouL of hls own pockeL. 80 of Lhe onllne survey respondenLs equally spllL
up beLween flnanclng healLh care expenses Lhrough an lnsurance and bearlng Lhe expenses Lhemselves.
Lmergency cosLs, whlch are only lncluded ln Lhe calculaLlon, lf Lhe expaLrlaLe has an lnsurance, could
lncrease Lhe expenses for a slngle lndlvldual a loL, lf he or she has Lo pay for lL ouL of hls or her own
pockeL.
A1 Expatriates life in Ho Chi Minh City
A101 L+&*$> &/3 D+**"+5/8
1he onllne survey provldes Lhe evldence, LhaL Lhe expatriates communlLy ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy ls healLhy.
1hree quarLers raLed Lhelr overall healLh excellenL (29) or good (46). 1hls resulL cannoL be seen as
surprlslng, lf Laken lnLo accounL Lhe young age of Lhe expaLrlaLes parLlclpaLed ln Lhe survey.
1he Lhree expaLrlaLes personally lnLervlewed summarlzed whaL Lhey malnly need for feellng healLhy and
good: PealLhy food, Lhe posslblllLy of dolng exerclses and soclal conLacLs for Lhe menLal wellbelng
(lnLervlew l, llne number 74-73). All of Lhem do noL flnd lL dlfflculL Lo llve a healLhy llfe ln Po Chl Mlnh
ClLy, as Lhe access Lo fresh vegeLables and frulL ls easy (lnLervlew lll, llne number 114), exerclses can be
done ln a servlced aparLmenL (lnLervlew l, llne number 72-73) or ln Lhe gymnaslum (lnLervlew ll, llne
number 33) and Lhe onllne survey proofs LhaL Lhe soclal llfe ls no ma[or concern for expaLrlaLes.
Cne lnLervlewee menLloned LhaL lL ls dlfflculL Lo do ouLdoor acLlvlLles ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, as she was
used Lo ln AusLralla (lnLervlew ll, llne number 36-39). 1he onllne survey provldes slmllar lndlcaLlons
Lhrough commenLs from respondenLs, ln whlch Lhey complaln abouL Lhe lack of opporLunlLles for
ouLdoor acLlvlLles and Lhe envlronmenLal slLuaLlon.
A1<1 M+/+%&* ',/'+%/#
LxpaLrlaLes mosL common concerns are healLh care, food safeLy, road safeLy and hyglene sLandards.
Lspeclally Lhe general safeLy on Lhe sLreeL was menLloned consLanLly. A connecLlon beLween Lhe fear of
a moLorblke or car accldenL and Lhe healLh care slLuaLlon ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy ls polnLed ouL by an
lnLervlewee durlng Lhe Lelephone survey. Pe sald LhaL he worrles mosL abouL havlng a car accldenL,
because he has no LrusL ln vleLnamese hosplLals and docLors (1elephone Survey, lu 16).
Cn Lhe conLrary, expaLrlaLes dld noL [usL sLaLe food as healLh concernlng, buL more Lhan one Lhlrd
belleve LhaL lL ls healLhy and dellclous as well. 1he lnLervlewee from Slngapore lndlcaLed:
Food was a bit different, but it was not tremendously affecting ones wellbeing
8ebecca Mayer
8
(lotetvlew l, lloe oombet 70-71)
and
comloq ftom 5loqopote yoo woolJ soy, yoo koow, bove tbe spooos ooJ tbe cbopstlcks beeo wosbeJ
eotltely befote tbey ote setveJ to tbe oext costomet, bove tbe fooJ tbot tbey ote setvloq beeo kept
oo o cettolo tempetotote, () teJocloq tbe tlsk of cettolo boctetlo moltlplyloq. 1bese woolJ be tbe
sllqbtly kllls tbot ooe woolJ cooslJet, bot () you can feel comfortable with the fact that what youre
eating its not going to cost you severe health poison.
(lotetvlew l, lloe oombet 82-88).
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E101 2/-,%J&$5,/ &",4$ >+&*$> '&%+
1he resulLs of Lhe onllne survey show, LhaL [usL seven ouL of 48 people have been provlded wlLh
lnformaLlon abouL healLh care ln vleLnam before Lhelr arrlval. 1haL number provlded Lhe fundamenL Lo
ask paLlenLs durlng Lhe Lelephone survey, lf and why healLh care was / was noL an lmporLanL lssue for
Lhem aL Lhe Llme Lhey were Lhlnklng abouL movlng Lo vleLnam. lL could be conflrmed, LhaL [usL a small
number of paLlenLs (26) were seelng healLh care as an lmporLanL lssue. 8easons for LhaL, glven durlng
Lhe Lelephone survey, are: LxpaLrlaLes feel healLhy and have no medlcal hlsLory (43), expaLrlaLes are
noL worrylng, because Lhey are havlng a healLh lnsurance (29) or because Lhey are sLlll young (29).
21 are also menLloned, LhaL Lhey can easlly access healLh care ln 1halland, Slngapore or Lhelr counLry
of orlgln.
Cnce expaLrlaLes are ln vleLnam, mosL of Lhem (60) are provlded wlLh lnformaLlon abouL healLh care
and healLh care provlders. 1he source Lhey are uslng ls Lhe lnLerneL (42) and Lhey are asklng oLher
expaLrlaLes for advlce (38). 1hls shows LhaL, ln addlLlon Lo modern Lechnologles, word-Lo-mouLh plays
a ma[or role ln passlng lnformaLlon.
E1<1 N5/3 ,- $%+&$J+/$#
1he onllne survey shows LhaL over half (33) of Lhose lnLervlewed and Lhose who are accesslng regular
medlcal care, access lL ln vleLnam. AnoLher hlgh percenLage reLurns Lo Lhelr counLry of orlgln for regular
healLh checks. 63 of Lhe paLlenLs, lnLervlewed on Lhe phone, afflrmed when asked lf Lhey are dolng
Lhelr regular healLh check ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy. Cne reason for Lhe varylng numbers mlghL be Lhe
dlfferenL sample slze, as well as Lhe way Lhe quesLlon was asked. ln Lhe onllne survey Lhe respondenLs
had Lhe opporLunlLy Lo choose beLween dlfferenL counLrles, whereas Lhe lnLervlewed people ln Lhe
8ebecca Mayer
9
Lelephone survey could slmply afflrm or deny, wheLher Lhey are dolng Lhelr regular medlcal checks ln Po
Chl Mlnh ClLy.
Cver half of Lhe expaLrlaLes (37) of Lhe onllne survey LhoughL LhaL lL ls posslble Lo recelve a wlde range
of dlfferenL LreaLmenLs ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy. ln conLrary, [usL 22 LhoughL Lhe opposlLe. Lven lf Lhe
LreaLmenLs are noL speclfled ln Lhls quesLlon, Lhe dlfference Lo Lhe resulLs of Lhe onllne survey and
especlally Lo Lhe personal lnLervlews ls surprlslng, because all personal quesLloned expaLrlaLes sald Lhey
would reLurn Lo Lhelr home counLry for complex or severe LreaLmenLs. 1he represenLaLlves of lf-
ConsulLlng conflrmed LhaL Lhe baslc lnsurance covers Lhe evacuaLlon of paLlenLs Lo 1halland or
Slngapore (lnLervlew lf-ConsulLlng, llne number 331-332) and LhaL many of Lhelr cllenLs would noL llke Lo
go Lo a hosplLal ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, ln case of an accldenL, buL lnsLead prefer Lo be evacuaLed Lo
1halland (lnLervlew lf-ConsulLlng, llne number 479-483).
1here seems Lo be an obvious discrepancy between various treatments, which are in the expatriates
oplnlon avallable ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy and Lhe facL LhaL ln mosL cases Lhey Lhemselves do noL wanL Lo
access more Lhan regular and baslc medlcal care ln vleLnam. lollowlng reasons mlghL explaln Lhe
dlscrepancy: SupporL of Lhe famlly, whlch one lnLervlewee menLloned (lnLervlew l, llne number 143),
mlghL be one reason, why expaLrlaLes choose Lo reLurn Lo Lhelr counLry of orlgln. ln some counLrles Lhe
access Lo healLh care ls LoLally free. 1hls ls anoLher moLlve for reLurnlng back home (lnLervlew ll, llne
number 89-90). AnoLher lnLervlewee explalned lL llke Lhis: I would be scared, if I breake my knee () I
would trust more of the medical practices in the US and Canada. In Canada there is people who does
it, they have accountability. So here [in Vietnam. A/N] they dont. (Interview III, line number 43-43).
1he surveys and Lhe lnLervlews have proved LhaL expaLrlaLes are more llkely Lo access baslc medlcal care
ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy Lhan complex medlcal LreaLmenLs or medlcal care ln case of dread dlseases.
CosmeLlc surgerles or cosmeLlc denLal care ls noL a common Lhlng for expaLrlaLes Lo underLake ln Po Chl
Mlnh ClLy, as Lhe Lelephone survey and Lhe personal lnLervlews show. !usL Lhree ouL of LwenLy
respondenLs of Lhe Lelephone survey ever accessed any cosmeLlc LreaLmenL ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.
neverLheless, expaLrlaLes are aware of healLh care provlders ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy offerlng more and
more cosmeLlc surgerles. Cne respondenL menLloned, that the cosmetic industry is a booming industry
in Vietnam (Interview II, line number 136).
E1A1 F%+-+%%+3 >+&*$> '&%+ ?%,;53+%#
1he regular healLh care provlder of nearly half of Lhe expaLrlaLes ls Lhe prlvaLe hosplLal, followed by a
general pracLlLloner (26) and a healLh cllnlc (17). !usL 7 vlslL a publlc hosplLal.
8ebecca Mayer
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ConfronLlng Lhe expaLrlaLes ln Lhe onllne survey wlLh dlfferenL lllnesses and Lasklng Lhem Lo choose
whlch healLh care provlder Lhey would conLacL, shows LhaL ln case of skln rash and hlgh fever over 33
would go Lo a medlcal pracLlce. ln case of conLlnuous paln ln Lhe sLomach, dlffuse dlscomforL or lf Lhe
ablllLy Lo see ls geLLlng worse, beLween 41-49 of Lhe people would elLher conLacL a medlcal pracLlce
or a prlvaLe hosplLal. 1he publlc hosplLal plays a LangenLlal role. ln Lhe hlghesL case (dlffuse dlscomforL)
[usL 13 of Lhe expaLrlaLes would vlslL a publlc hosplLal.
1hese resulLs show a clear Lendency and preference for uslng a prlvaLe pracLlce, cllnlc or hosplLal, even
ln mlnor medlcal cases. 8easons for LhaL, accordlng Lo commenLs from expaLrlaLes, are bad sLorles Lhey
have heard abouL publlc hosplLals or bad experlences Lhey have made Lhemselves ln a publlc hosplLal.
1hey clalmed abouL low hyglene sLandards, crowdedness (64 of Lhe expaLrlaLes are Lhlnklng LhaL publlc
hosplLals are overcrowded) and abouL medlcal as well as managemenL sLaff lacklng skllls. LxpaLrlaLes
also menLloned Lhe language barrler and LhaL Lhey do noL LrusL publlc hosplLals ln general. 1hls ls also
reflecLed ln Lhe hlgh dlsagreemenL of Lhe sLaLemenL, LhaL publlc healLh care provlders are rellable.
AnoLher, buL smaller group of expaLrlaLes expressed Lhelr crlLlcal oplnlon abouL prlvaLe hosplLals, by
mosLly saylng LhaL prlvaLe hosplLals are Loo expenslve. Some also menLloned a lack ln speclallzed care,
whlch explalns Lhe phenomenon of expaLrlaLes flylng Lo 8angkok, Slngapore or Lhelr counLry of orlgln for
speclallzed care. Cne of Lhe represenLaLlves aL lf-ConsulLlng summarlzed it with following words: Cnce
its more complicated better to fly somewhere. And thats very normal. You have the bulldlng wlLh Len
floor of () cardlac surgery. ln Po Chl Mlnh you have Lhree. And on Lhe 10
Lh
floor you have 20 cardlac
surgeons. Cf course you wlll have beLLer care wlLh LhaL. (Interview If-ConsulLlng, llne number 374-376).
noL clearly dlfferenced ln Lhe sLudy are forelgn-owned hosplLals (all prlvaLe) and vleLnamese hosplLals,
whlch can be publlc as well as prlvaLe. 1wo of Lhe personal lnLervlewed persons menLloned LhaL Lhey
have vlslLed a vleLnamese prlvaLe hosplLal and were very saLlsfled wlLh Lhe servlce and Lhe medlcal
LreaLmenL Lhere: When l wenL Lo Lhe local hosplLal prlvaLe cllnlc Lhe resulLs of Lhe blood LesL,
everyLhlng was amazlngly fasL (Interview III, line number 63-64).
lL can be assumed LhaL mosL of Lhe expaLrlaLes quesLloned ln Lhe onllne survey are Lhlnklng abouL
forelgn-owned hosplLals, when commenLlng on prlvaLe hosplLals. Cne lnLervlewee explalned Lhls facL:
Many expaLrlaLes uslng, () lv [lranco vleLnamese PosplLal. n/A] or vlcLorla, malnly because of Lhe
porLrayal, () Lhe common use of Lngllsh as a language and also Lhe porLrayal of havlng Lhe medlcal
crew from around the world. This gives a bit of a counterbalance to just Vietnamese specific doctor.
(lnLervlew l, llne number 93-98).
8ebecca Mayer
11
AnoLher lndlcaLlon Lherefore ls Lhe facL, LhaL all parLlclpanLs who were lnLervlewed on Lhe Lelephone,
excepL of one paLlenL, LhoughL abouL forelgn-owned hosplLals, llke lranco vleLnamese PosplLal, lamlly
Medlcal racLlce or CenLre Medlcal lnLernaLlonal ln Lhe flrsL place.
As menLloned before, Lhls sLrong Lendency Lowards forelgn-owned hosplLal can be explalned, among
oLher aspecLs, malnly by Lhe wlsh Lo speak Lhe naLlve language (lrench people quesLloned ln Lhe
Lelephone survey were lnsLanLly Lhlnklng abouL hosplLals, whlch have lrench-speaklng docLors).
aLlenLs lnLervlewed on Lhe Lelephone were asked abouL crlLerla Lhey requlre from a healLh care
provlder. CuallLy of care sLands on flrsL place wlLh 73, followed by hyglene, whlch 33 of Lhe paLlenLs
requlre, and no language barrler, whlch 43 of Lhe paLlenLs prefer. 1hls proves Lhe drlfL Lowards
forelgn-owned hosplLals. As long as publlc hosplLals have Lhe repuLaLlon, for docLors, who are noL well
Lralned,
And from my knowledge none of the Vietnamese doctors would be qualified to practice medicine
outside of Vietnam. () So, that probably tells me sometbloq ls wtooq wltb tbe meJlcol scbools bete,
the quality of the medical schools here. So I would not want to take the risk.
(lotetvlew lll, lloe oombet 96-100),
for low hyglene sLandards, whlch respondenLs noLe ln Lhe onllne survey, as well as ln Lhe Lelephone
survey and for havlng nurses and docLors, who cannoL converse ln Lngllsh,
But most even the local clinics, or even the jvletoomese-owoeJ. A/N] private clinics, they dont
speok oqllsb mocb, () eveo tbe Joctots botJly speoks oqllsb.
(lotetvlew lll, lloe oombet 70-71)
expaLrlaLes wlll hardly choose Lo go Lhere.
1he Lelephone survey also asked abouL furLher demands on healLh care provlders. 1he resulLs show,
LhaL expaLrlaLes ln 80 of Lhe cases prefer beLLer faclllLles Lo a beLLer accesslblllLy and a healLh care
provlder wlLh more years experlences (63) Lo Lhe one whlch has a greaLer varleLy of LreaLmenLs.
E1E1 O+J&%7# &",4$ 5J?%,;+J+/$#
Whereas Lhe onllne and Lelephone survey concenLraLed only on Lhe currenL slLuaLlon of expatriates
healLh care need, Lhe face-Lo-face lnLervlews gave more room for expaLrlaLes Lo compare Lhe currenL
healLh care slLuaLlon Lo Lhe pasL or even have a look lnLo Lhe fuLure. 1he respondenLs menLloned
lmprovemenLs of healLh care ln vleLnam.
Cne lnLervlewee commented: I think health care comparing to () my impression to first time () I was
in Ho Chi Minh City, its improving drastically. (Interview III, line number 153-134). 1hls vlew ls
8ebecca Mayer
12
supporLed by a parLlclpanL of Lhe onllne survey, who connecLs Lhe lmprovemenL wlLh Lhe openlng of
forelgn cllnlcs (Cnllne Survey, lu 91). lnLervlewed expaLrlaLes conflrmed LhaL Lhese lmprovemenLs
happen ln prlvaLe lnsLlLuLlons, accesslble and affordable for forelgners and rlch vleLnamese, buL noL for
Lhe mass of poor or low lncome clLlzens:
Health care is only improving for the rich people. Not for the poor people, not for the general
pobllc. 5o tbe qeoetol pobllc stlll bos to qo tbtooqb tbe ctoJe meJlcol system yoo bove lo no cbl
Mlob clty vetsos mojot bospltols llke lv bospltol ooly cotets to tbe tlcb ooJ tbe mlJJle closs,
upper and the rich people in Vietnam, which is not a fair system.
(lotetvlew lll, lloe oombet 156-159)
Cne lndlvldual llsLed dlfferenL crlLerla, whlch are needed Lo underLake lmprovemenLs. Among Lhem on
flrsL place she menLloned reforms LhaL Lhe governmenL has Lo lmplemenL (lnLervlew ll, llne number 123)
and LhaL greaL efforL from Lhe pollLlclans ls essenLlal for a change. lurLhermore, lL needs awareness from
Lhe publlc and a beLLer healLh care educaLlon. (lnLervlew ll, llne number 132, 160-161).

E1P1 Q5J5$&$5,/#
As Lhls paper ls Lhe resulL of only Lwo monLhs work of a slngle lndlvldual, lL glves [usL a small lnslghL lnLo
Lhe healLh care demand of expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy. 1he resulLs of Lhls sLudy wlll also noL be
compared Lo Lhe flndlngs of oLher works, because of Lhe lack of exlsLlng llLeraLure ln LhaL fleld. 1haL
leads Lo Lhe necesslLy of furLher represenLaLlve sLudles Lo proof Lhe resulLs.
uue Lo language barrlers wlLh some expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, who are noL able Lo speak and
undersLand Lngllsh and Lherefore could noL parLlclpaLe ln Lhe surveys and Lhe small sample slze ln Lhe
onllne survey, Lhe resulLs of Lhe research may noL have been represenLaLlve for the whole expatriates
communlLy ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy. Powever, Lhls paper can be Lhe basls for furLher sLudles, as well as for
healLh care provlders, who wanL Lo proof Lhe healLh care needs of Lhelr own lnLernaLlonal paLlenLs
resldenL ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.

8ebecca Mayer
13
P1 .,/'*4#5,/

1hls paper has lnvesLlgaLed Lhe healLh and wellbelng demand of expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy. lL
concenLraLed on Lhe currenL slLuaLlon and how expaLrlaLes are feellng ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, whaL Lypes of
medlcal LreaLmenLs Lhey are accesslng and where Lhey are accesslng Lhem.
1hls sLudy has found ouL LhaL generally expaLrlaLes are accesslng baslc medlcal care ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy,
buL are more llkely Lo leave Lhe counLry ln complex and dread cases. 1he ma[orlLy of expaLrlaLes prefer
Lo use forelgn-owned prlvaLe hosplLals and cllnlcs, followed by vleLnamese prlvaLe hosplLals. ubllc
hosplLals have a bad repuLaLlon and are shaplng Lhe negaLlve lmage of healLh care ln vleLnam.
MosLly crlLlclzed was Lhe bad quallLy of LreaLmenLs, Lhe low hyglene sLandards, medlcal sLaff lacklng
skllls and Lhe bad equlpmenL, as well as Lhe language barrler, whlch presenLs a ma[or dread for
expaLrlaLes.
1he flndlngs of Lhe sLudy suggesL LhaL lmprovemenLs on speclallzed care ln Lhe prlvaLe secLor and
lmprovemenLs on publlc medlcal care on Lhe mosL baslc level has Lo be done, Lo make expaLrlaLes
feellng safer when accesslng healLh care ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.
1he sLudy has furLhermore found ouL LhaL a way for healLh care provlders Lo address and reach
expaLrlaLes ls Lhe lnLerneL. Lven more lmporLanL Lhan LhaL ls Lhe personal conLacL wlLh paLlenLs and Lhe
necesslLy Lo creaLe a good brand lmage. SaLlsfled paLlenLs wlll Lhen recommend Lhe hosplLal or cllnlc and
word of mouLh ls Lhe mosL lmporLanL source of lnformaLlon for oLher expaLrlaLes.
llnally a number of llmlLaLlons need Lo be consldered. llrsL, Lhe lack of lnformaLlon on offlclal sLaLlsLlc
numbers abouL expaLrlaLes ln vleLnam and Po Chl Mlnh ClLy as well as of oLher sclenLlflc papers on LhaL
Loplc. 1haL means LhaL a comparlson of Lhe resulLs wlLh oLher sLudles was noL posslble.
Second, Lhe sample slze of Lhe onllne survey was Loo small Lo be represenLaLlve, so LhaL cauLlon musL be
applied, as the findings might not be transferable to all expatriates communities in Ho Chi Minh City.
R1 !??+/35H

Appendlx 1 Cnllne quesLlonnaire.. 8
Appendlx 2 1elephone quesLlonnalre.. L
Appendlx 3 lnLervlew l Transcript.. 8
Appendlx 4 lnLervlew ll Transcript. x
Appendlx 3 lnLervlew lll - Transcript.... CC
Appendlx 6 lnLervlew lf-ConsulLlng 1ranscript. ll
Appendlx 7 8uslness cards lnLervlew parLner lf-Consulting. AAA

8ebecca Mayer
8
!??+/35H 0S 9/*5/+ G4+#$5,//&5%+
L+&*$> &/3 D+**"+5/8 3+J&/3 ,- +H?&$%5&$+# 5/ L, .>5 =5/> .5$@
1hank you for Laklng Lhe Llme Lo compleLe Lhls survey.
My name ls 8ebecca Mayer, l am a "nonproflL-, Soclal- & PealLh Care ManagemenL" sLudenL and l am
currenLly dolng an lnLernshlp ln Lhe healLh care secLor ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.
1he goal of Lhls survey ls Lo ldenLlfy Lhe healLh and wellbelng demand of expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.
WlLh Lhe resulLs lmprovemenLs on medlcal servlces can be done and healLh care can be ad[usLed Lo your
need.
1o Lake parL ln Lhe survey, you musL be from anoLher counLry Lhan vleLnam and you have Lo have your
currenL resldence ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy. 1haL ensures LhaL Lhe daLa collecLed ls valld for Lhe survey.
1he lnformaLlon collecLed from you ln Lhls survey wlll remaln anonymous. ?our name and conLacL
lnformaLlon wlll noL be collecLed for Lhe survey.

Answerlng all quesLlons wlll Lake approxlmaLely 10 mlnuLes.
lease answer each quesLlon Lo Lhe besL of your ablllLy.

?ou can sklp questions if you dont want to answer them.
Any quesLlons marked wlLh an asLerlsk (*) requlre an answer ln order Lo progress Lhrough Lhe survey.

lf you have any quesLlons, please conLacL me vla emall (rs.mayer[mcl4me.aL).

Cllck Lhe nexL buLLon Lo conLlnue Lo Lhe nexL page.
Cllck Lhe SubmlL buLLon Lo submlL your survey.

Welcome Lo Lhe survey!
1hank you for Laklng parL ln lL.
1here are 22 quesLlons ln Lhls survey

8ebecca Mayer
C
M+/+%&* G4+#$5,/# &",4$ @,4% *5-+ 5/ L, .>5 =5/> .5$@
ln Lhls parL of Lhe survey you wlll be asked abouL your desclslon Lo move Lo Po Chl Mlnh ClLy and abouL
Lhe general vlew you have from Lhe clLy.
1 [g1]WhaL was your moLlvaLlon Lo go Lo PCMC?
lease choose all LhaL apply:
Work
Cood envlronmenL
PealLhy llfesLyle
new experlence
SLudylng a new language
arLner/spouse ls llvlng/worklng ln PCMC
Access Lo good healLh care
Well-developed lnfrasLrucLure
Cood schools
CLher:

2 [g2]WhaL are your ma[or concerns/worrles whlle llvlng ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy aL Lhe momenL? lease Llck
your Lop four concerns.
lease selecL aL mosL 4 answers
Work
lood safeLy
Pyglene sLandards
Pouslng
Lelsure acLlvlLles
PealLh care
lncome
Soclal llfe
lreedom of rellglon
Language barrlers
Chlld educaLlon
CLher:
8ebecca Mayer
u

3 [g3]WhaL do you Lhlnk abouL Po Chl Mlnh ClLy (PCMC) as your currenL place of resldence?
PCMC ls a very convenlenL clLy
1he food ln PCMC ls dellclous & healLhy
PCMC has an acLlve nlghLllfe
lood securlLy ls a ma[or lssue
Spa LreaLmenL ls parL of Lhe llfesLyle
1he healLh care slLuaLlon ln PCMC ls bad
eople ln PCMC are very frlendly and helpful
ln PCMC are plenLy of good docLors and hosplLals Lo go Lo
CLher:

L+&*$> '&%+ 5/ L, .>5 =5/> .5$@
4 [hc-hcmc1]ln general, how would you raLe your overall healLh?
lease choose only one of Lhe followlng:
LxcellenL
Cood
lalr
oor
very poor

3 [hc-hcmc2a]uld you geL any lnformaLlon abouL PealLh Care ln vleLnam / Po Chl Mlnh ClLy before you
arrlved ln vleLnam?
?es
no

8ebecca Mayer
L
6 [hc-hcmc2b]WhaL was your source of lnformaLlon abouL healLh care ln vleLnam / Po Chl Mlnh ClLy
(before you arrlved ln vleLnam)?
Cnly answer Lhls quesLlon lf Lhe followlng condlLlons are meL:
((hc-hcmc2a.nACk == "?"))
lnLerneL research
Soclal medla (lacebook, 1wlLLer, 8logs, eLc.)
lrom my employer
1ravel agency
Lmbassy of Lhe counLry of orlgln
vleLnamese embassy
lrlends or famlly
newspapers or magazlnes
1elevlslon or radlo
lamlly physlclan / C
CLher expaLs, who are llvlng ln PCMC
CLher:

7 [hc-hcmc3]
Are you currenLly looklng for lnformaLlon abouL healLh care and healLh care provlders ln Po Chl Mlnh
ClLy? lf Lhe answer ls yes, please mark Lhe source(s) from LhaL you are Lrylng Lo geL Lhese lnformaLlon.
no
?es, Lhrough oLher expaLs
?es, Lhrough local people
?es, Lhrough famlly or frlends
?es, Lhrough my employer
?es, Lhrough healLh care provlders ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy
?es, Lhrough lnLerneL research
?es, Lhrough soclal medla (lacebook, 1wlLLer, 8logs eLc.)
?es, Lhrough newspapers or magazlnes
?es, Lhrough Lelevlslon or radlo
8ebecca Mayer
l
?es, Lhrough my embassy (of Lhe counLry of orlgln)
?es, Lhrough Lhe vleLnamese embassy
?es, Lhrough a Lravel agency
CLher:

8 [hc-hcmc4]ln whlch counLry do you access regular medlcal care?
CounLry of orlgln
Slngapore
1halland
vleLnam
l never accessed regular medlcal care so far
CLher

9 [hc-hcmc3]ln whlch counLry do you access emergency medlcal care?
CounLry of orlgln
Slngapore
1halland
vleLnam
l never accessed emergency medlcal care so far
CLher

10 [hc-hcmc6]WhaL ls your regular healLh care provlder? lease choose Lhe one you use mosL ofLen.
ersonal docLor/Ceneral pracLlLloner
ubllc hosplLal
rlvaLe hosplLal
PealLh Cllnlc
8ehablllLaLlon Cllnlc
CLher

8ebecca Mayer
C
11 [hc-hcmc7]
Whlch source of care ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy would you prefer lf you had followlng healLh lssues?
lf l suffered from xy, l would prefer golng Lo a...
lease choose Lhe approprlaLe response for each lLem:
ubllc hosplLal rlvaLe hosplLal Medlcal pracLlce
ulffuse
dlscomforL

AblllLy Lo
see / vlslon
ls geLLlng
worse

ConLlnuous
paln ln Lhe
sLomach

Skln rash

Plgh fever

12 [hc-hcmc8]
ls Lhere any reason why you would noL be able Lo use any of Lhe healLh care provlders menLloned ln Lhe
lasL quesLlon?
lease Llck Lhe box wlLh Lhe source of medlcal care you would noL be able Lo use and explaln ln shorL
words why you would noL be able Lo use Lhls healLh care provlder.
lease choose all LhaL apply and provlde a commenL:
l would noL be able Lo go Lo a publlc hosplLal because...

l would noL be able Lo go Lo a prlvaLe hosplLal because...

l would noL be able Lo go Lo a medlcal pracLlce because...

8ebecca Mayer
P
13 [hc-hcmc9]
ln Lhe followlng quesLlons you can flnd sLaLemenLs abouL healLh care ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy (PCMC) ln
general and abouL publlc and prlvaLe healLh care ln parLlcular.
lease mark on a scale from "sLrongly dlsagree" Lo "sLrongly agree" how sLrong you agree Lo each of Lhe
followlng sLaLemenL.
lease read carefully.
lease choose Lhe approprlaLe response for each lLem:

SLrongly
dlsagree
ulsagree
nelLher dlsagree
nor agree
Agree SLrongly Agree
ubllc healLh
care provlders
ln PCMC are
reliable

rlvaLe healLh
care ln PCMC ls
paLlenL-
oriented

ubllc healLh
care provlders
ln PCMC are
overcrowded

rlvaLe healLh
care ln PCMC ls
shabby

?ou can recelve
a wlde range of
dlfferenL
LreaLmenLs ln
PCMC...

rlvaLe hosplLals

8ebecca Mayer
l

SLrongly
dlsagree
ulsagree
nelLher dlsagree
nor agree
Agree SLrongly Agree
ln PCMC are
provldlng good
speclallzed
care
1he quallLy of
healLh care ln
PCMC ls
excellent

L+&*$> '&%+ -5/&/'5/8
14 [hc-f1]Pow much money, ln u.S. dollars, do you spend on healLhcare ln a Lyplcal monLh? (CounL all
healLhcare-relaLed cosLs, lncludlng healLh lnsurance premlums, deducLlbles, copays, co-lnsurance fees,
and any oLher ouL-of-pockeL expenses for medlcal, denLal, or vlslon servlces and medlcaLlons.)
lease wrlLe your answer here:
lf you don'L know Lhe exacL number, roughly esLlmaLe Lhe cosLs.

13 [hc-f2]Pow do you prlmarlly flnance healLh care expenses?
PealLh lnsurance
rlvaLe / ouL of my own pockeL
My employer pays for occurrlng healLh care cosLs
CLher

8ebecca Mayer
!

uemographlc CuesLlons
16 [sex]WhaL ls your sex? *
Male
lemale
CLher

17 [age]WhaL ls your age? *
18-24
23-34
33-44
43-34
33-64
63 or older

18 [naLlonallLy]WhaL ls your naLlonallLy?

19 [duraLlon-llvlng]lor how long have you been llvlng ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy?
Less Lhan 1 monLh
1-3 monLhs
4-6 monLhs
7-11 monLhs
1-3 years
Cver 3 years

8ebecca Mayer
k
20 [employmenL]
Whlch of Lhe followlng caLegorles besL descrlbes your prlmarlly area of employmenL (regardless of your
acLual poslLlon)?
LducaLlon
Lconomy / Commerce
PealLh Care
Pomemaker
8eLlred
Servlces
SLudenL
1ourlsm
unemployed
CLher

21 [lncome]WhaL ls your currenL annual lncome before Laxes (gross salary) ln u.S. dollars? *
Less Lhan 10.000$
10.000$ - 19.999$
20.000$ - 39.999$
40.000$ - 79.999$
80.000$ or more
refer noL Lo say
<< T+/3U
1hank you for Laklng parL ln Lhls survey and answerlng Lhe quesLlons!
lf you have anyLhlng Lo add abouL healLh care ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy or you wanL Lo glve any feedback
abouL Lhe quesLlonnalre, please use Lhe followlng box.

1hank you for Laklng parL ln Lhe survey and fllllng ouL Lhe quesLlonnalre.
lease share Lhls llnk wlLh oLher expaLrlaLes ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy!
8ebecca Mayer
L
lL wlll help me Lo geL a represenLaLlve sample.

Pere ls Lhe llnk: hLLp://mcl-sLudenLs.llmequery.com/36946/lang-en
!??+/35H <S )+*+?>,/+ G4+#$5,//&5%+
L+&*$> &/3 D+**"+5/8 3+J&/3 ,- +H?&$%5&$+# 5/ L, .>5 =5/> .5$@

lnLervlewer:
uaLe:
lu number:
General Introduction:
Pello / Cood afLernoon / Cood mornlng.
l am 8ebecca Mayer from Cao 1hang Lye PosplLal ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.
Am l speaklng Lo Mr / Mrs _____________?
l have your phone number, because you are a paLlenL aL Cao 1hang Lye PosplLal.
We are currenLly worklng on a sLudy Lo ldenLlfy Lhe healLh and wellbelng demand of expaLrlaLes ln Po
Chl Mlnh ClLy.
Were therefore doing a survey and asking questions about our patients health care demand. With the
resulLs we can ad[usL our healLh care servlces Lo our paLlenLs need.
May l ask you flve quesLlons, whlch wlll Lake approxlmaLely 3 Lo 10 mlnuLes?

lf no: All right. Thank you and goodbye.
no Llme now: Could I call you back later? What day and time would be good for you? ______________
lf yes: Thats great. (cON1lNu wl1n lN1kOuuc1lON 5ukv)

Introduction to the survey:
l wlll Lell you a couple Lhlngs before we sLarL. All your answers are compleLely confldenLlal, and you are
free Lo sklp any quesLlon or Lo end Lhe survey aL any polnL. Cao 1hang Lye PosplLal wlll oot release
personally ldenLlfylng lnformaLlon and your answers ln Lhe survey wlll noL be relaLed Lo your name.

8ebecca Mayer
M
Questions:
1. What is your current place of residence?
a. Ho Chi Minh City (CONTINUE WITH QUESTION 2)
b. Other (POLITELY EXPLAIN, THAT WE ARE LOOKING FOR EXPATS WHO
ARE CURRENTLY LIVING IN HCMC & SAY GOODBYE)
2. What kind of health treatments are you accessing in Ho Chi Minh City?
I will now read a list of different treatments to you and you can tell me if you are
accessing them or not.
Are you accessing in Ho Chi Minh City?

a. Regular health checks
b. Basic dental care
c. Cosmetic surgeries / cosmetic dental care
d. Emergency medical care
e. Vaccinations
f. (Preventive) Cancer screening
g. For women: Gynaecologist visits
3. What are the three most important requirements for you to choose a health care
provider?
I will now read out a list of different aspects. Please let me know which ones are most
important for you. You can also add other aspects to the list.

a. Affordability
b. Accessibility
c. No language barrier
d. Hygiene
e. Quality of care
f. Good reputation
g. Needs to be covered by my health insurance
h. Other
8ebecca Mayer
n
4. Lets assume that you have two health care providers which are both meeting the
requirements you mentioned in the question before.
If you need to make a final decision, which one you would you choose for your
long term treatment?
I will now read different cases to you. Please let me know which health care provider you
would choose.

a. Would you choose the health care provider which is ?

a1. More convenient to reach
or the one with the
a2. Better facilities

b. Would you choose the health care provider with (the)?

b1. Better price
or the one with
b2. Doctors who are trained oversea

c. Would you choose the health care provider with ?

c1. More years experiences
or the one with the
c2. Greater variety of treatments offered

d. Would you choose the health care provider with ?

d1. Special offers (Health care packages etc.)
or the one with
d2. More flexible opening hours (late in the evening, Saturdays &
Sundays)

8ebecca Mayer
C

5. What general hospital or clinic instantly comes to your mind when you think about
health care in Ho Chi Minh City?
(DONT READ THE ANSWERS)

a. Cho Ray Hospital
b. Franco Vietnamese Hospital (FV Hospital)
c. Victoria Health Care International Clinic
d. Family Medical Practice
e. Columbia Asia Hospital
f.
g. None

6. Was health care an important issue for you at the time you were thinking about
moving to Vietnam?

a. Yes
b. No

Please explain in short words why / why not:

8ebecca Mayer

Demographic questions
1. For how long have you been living in Ho Chi Minh City?
(DONT READ THE ANSWERS)
a. Under 3 months
b. 4-6 months
c. 7-11 months
d. 1-3 years
e. Over 3 years

2. What is your Nationality?
____________________________________

THIS PART CAN BE FILLED OUT BY THE INTERVIEWER:

3. How old is the interviewee? ___________________

4. What sex has the interviewee?
a. Male
b. Female

- END -

8ebecca Mayer
C
Part for the interviewer to fill out

1. Did you have the impression, that the interviewee answered the question
truthfully?
a. Yes
b. No

2. Did you have the feeling that the interviewee was in a hurry when you asked the
questions?
a. Yes
b. No

3. Did you have the feeling that the interviewee was annoyed or bothered by your
questions?
a. Yes
b. No

4. Did you have the feeling that the interviewee fully understood all the questions?
a. Yes
b. No Which question might not be understood completely? __________

8ebecca Mayer
8
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8: So. lor Lhe beglnnlng you can [usL Lell me a llLLle blL abouL yourself llke [usL for recordlng llke
whats your name and since when youre here, since when you are in Ho Chi Minh City and what youre
dolng here and why you came here.
!: !a. So, my naLlonallLy ls Slngaporlan. 37 years old. My name ls !ln S. and l reslded from Po Chl Mlnh
from 2007 Lo 2011. LasL held Lhe poslLlon as a chlef represenLaLlve of Lhe Slngapore 1ourlsm 8oard
based ln vleLnam.
R: Alright. And thats why you came here? That was the reason?
!: ?es.
8: So when you moved Lo vleLnam. Was lL llke a qulck declslon or dld you have Llme Lo prepare?
!: We had Llme Lo prepare. lL was a coteJ plan slx monLhs ln advance.
8: Ckay, alrlghL. And dld you have any worrles aL LhaL Llme. uld you worry abouL someLhlng or..?
!: no, noL really because for cooperate relocation I think its quite comprehensive. They would put
forward some sorL of a package lncludlng houslng, medlcal, educaLlon lf you have klds and your
LaxaLlon lssues. So Lhese would have been communlcaLed Lo you slx monLhs before and Lhen you would
Lake up a posL Lhlng upon Lhe agreemenL of Lhe Lerms LhaL you have Lhen shed wlLh, so by a large
relocaLlon basls wlLh a company LhaL has looked lnLo Lhese facLors, Lhe lndlvldual does noL have Lo
worry LhaL much. 8uL lf you are comlng here as an entrepreneur, youre coming here to look for a job
then its different. Because these are areas that you may not have considered or you may not even know
lf you are back, lf you are here ln vleLnam.
8: Ckay, so you felL safe because you had Lhe feellng you were well prepared from worklng slLe. 1hey
prepared you with all kind of information and
J: I think its not just that they prepared but they also executed many of these things, so for example
LaxaLlon lssues: uo l pay Lax ln Slngapore or do I pay tax in Vietnam. I dont have to worry about that
because Lhe offlce would have Laken care abouL Lhe Lax ln vleLnam. So Lhey would have a separaLe Leam
asklng me for my documenLs and Lhen worklng separaLely wlLh Lhe auLhorlLles here Lo make sure LhaL l
wlll pay Lax ln vleLnam, buL l [usL pay Lhe Lax ln Slngapore. l would also have Lhe supporL of Lhe
organlzaLlon saylng: Choose Lhree houses LhaL you Lhlnk you wanna sLay and Lhen puL Lhe one LhaL
youre recommending and we will approve that. So its a really, ehm pre plan. So you dont have any
surprlses.
8ebecca Mayer
S
8: AlrlghL. And how dld you expecL lL Lo be dlfferenL Lo Slngapore? Llke: uld you have any ldea whaL
would be dlfferenL for you when you move here?
!: l Lhlnk on Lwo fronLs Lhere would always be dlfference. 8uL l Lhlnk Lhese dlfferences would noL be
overwhelming. The first front is of course workwise you have a different culture to work with and I
Lhlnk LhaL can be resolved very qulckly Lhrough esLabllshlng whaL you need Lo do and sLuff. 1he second
one ls on a personal fronL. Cn a personal fronL belng a slngle lndlvldual, l dld noL have any relocaLlon
lssues wlLh my famlly, because l was here by myself and glven Lhe earller four polnLs l menLloned: ?ou
know, Lhe LaxaLlon, Lhe houslng, Lhe healLh care: 1hese have been really Laken care of, so Lhere was noL
much of a readjustment. Its quite straight forward.
8: AlrlghL. l see. And have been llvlng ouLslde of Slngapore before or was lL your flrsL Llme?
!: lL would have been my flrsL Llme.
8: Ckay, alrlghL. And whaL was your flrsL lmpresslon of vleLnam or of Po Chl Mlnh ClLy?
!: l Lhlnk mosL Aslan clLles would have a slmllar vlew. l Lhlnk vleLnam was slmllar ln LhaL sense. So lL
would be a LradlLlonal SouLh-LasL-Asian emerging economy city eh feeling. lL would noL have been
very dlfferenL from 1halland, lL would noL have been very dlfferenL from Malaysla, lL would
ehIndonesia, it would not have been very different from Myanmar. So, I think, they are all quite
conslsLenL ln Lhe way Lhey porLralL Lhe lmage.
8: Ckay. When you remember back Lo your flrsL weeks and your flrsL monLh, maybe your flrsL half of a
year. Can you describe a little bit of your personal life, feelings you had during that time. Would you
?ou sald already llke, LhaL lL was noL so much dlfference Lo oLher clLles, buL llke your llfesLyle. uld lL
change Lo before? uld you have Lo bulld up someLhlng or..?
!: LlfesLyle would change ln a beLLer ply. 8ecause lL ls llke golng Lo a new [ob, or golng Lo a new school.
So your sense of home ls noL eh your sense of space and neighborhood and home is quite different.
So l Lhlnk Lhe flrsL weeks you focus more on seLLllng lnLo your home, looklng for Lhe klnd of food and
Lrylng dlfferenL klnds of food, so LhaL you feel comforLable wlLh. ConcurrenLly you would be engaglng on
different level of networking with, you know, eh your professional groups as well as your country
groups, speclflc groups. So, l Lhlnk Lhls would be whaL happens ln your flrsL monLh or so. ?ou would be
meeLlng up wlLh a loL of lndlvlduals, you wlll be meeLlng up a loL, you wlll Lrylng dlfferenL experlences.
So I think this is quite consistent for any relocation you will go through, even I think if youre in a school,
or ln company you do Lhe same Lhlng, you Lry Lo meeL as many people, undersLand Lhe company, many
sLudenLs undersLand Lhe currlculum, so qulLe conslsLenL.
R: Do you have or had any problem with feeling healthy, with feeling like or having a good wellbeing or
was lL someLhlng whlch came naLurally and l would also be lnLeresL whaL you do for feellng healLhy, for
belng healLhy?
!: l Lhlnk food wlse was one key Lo qoooo beot tbe mlooo Lo your wellbelng. l Lhlnk for food here. 1he
lnlLlal dlfference would have been Lhe facL LhaL Lhe food here Lends Lo be a llLLle blL llke wottb ln SouLh-
8ebecca Mayer
1
LasL-Asla, meanlng 1halland, Malaysla, lndonesla, Slngapore. We have very sLrong curry base, splce base
lngredlenLs, whlch ls absenL from vleLnamese food. 1hey Lend Lo be a blL more btooke base, Lhey Lend
Lo be sauce based. 8uL all Lhese are very llke sauce, Lhey are noL cream, heavy, bovy-beovy. So LhaL food
was a blL dlfferenL, buL lL was noL Lremendously affecLlng ones wellbelng. l Lhlnk ln Lerms of Lhe oLher
aspects like access to recreational facilities, it does have its Because Im staying ln a servlce
aparLmenL, whlch has a pool, a gym and a Lennls courL, so lL would noL make me feel, LhaL l had a lack of
access Lo recreaLlonal faclllLles. l Lhlnk your menLal wellbelng would have Lo be evolvlng sequence of
how you meeL people and engage wlLh people and agaln because worklng here on a professlonal basls, l
was able Lo [oln and engage people very qulckly. So agaln LhaL was noL an lssue. So l Lhlnk overall
relocaLlng Lo a counLry or clLy LhaL ls llke vleLnam, maybe Po Chl Mlnh Lo be speclflc, dld noL pause greaL
challenge Lo ones wellbelng.
8: Ckay. AlrlghL. l [usL one more Llme Lo be a llLLle blL more deLalled, a llLLle blL more concreLe. So was
Lhere anyLhlng you had Lhe feellng, ls mlsslng, whaL you Lhlnk would be good for your overall wellbelng?
!: 1he shorL answer ls no. 1he more elaboraLed answer would be: 1here are Lhese cerLaln areas of
cleanllness LhaL you would pay speclflc aLLenLlon Lo. Comlng from Slngapore you would say, you know,
have Lhe spoons and Lhe chopsLlcks been washed enLlrely before Lhey are served Lo Lhe nexL cosLumer,
have the food that they are serving been kept on a certain temperature, thats warm and hence you
know, reduclng Lhe rlsk of cerLaln bacLerla mulLlplylng. 1hese would be Lhe sllghLly kllls LhaL one would
conslder, buL Lhe shorL answer ls sLlll no, because you would feel LhaL afLer Lrylng lL once, Lwlce or Lhree
times you can feel comfortable with the fact that what youre eating its not going to cost you severe
healLh polson.
8: AlrlghL. And whaL was or whaL ls your lmpresslon of healLh care provlders ln vleLnam or especlally ln
Po Chl Mlnh ClLy?
J: I have had different experiences in my time here. I think as I start to understand the the market
better there are two very distinguished groups: The internaLlonal hosplLals as well as Lhen Lhe local
based hosplLals. l Lhlnk LhaL healLh care here for expaLrlaLes ln Lhe lnlLlal sLaLus ls Lhe unfamlllarlLy of Lhe
language and Lhe percelve lnferlor, you know Lechnlcal skllls LhaL Lhe hosplLals or Lhe sLaff may have
here, whlch wlll lead Lo many expaLrlaLes uslng, you know, lv or vlcLorla, malnly because of Lhe
porLrayal, you know Lhe common use of Lngllsh as a language and also Lhe porLrayal of havlng Lhe
medlcal crew from around Lhe world. 1hls glves a blL of a counLerbalance Lo [usL vleLnamese speclflc
docLor.
8uL overLlme l Lhlnk you reallze LhaL Lhe medlcal procedure as well as Lhe medlcal knowledge and Lhe
equipment is not in the local hospitals is not anywhere worse stuff than what you have seen in FV or
victoria. In fact on most cases some of the non critical treatments would have FV or Victoria sort of
leveraglng, exlsLlng equlpmenL from local hosplLals Lo do Lhe lnlLlal dlagnosLlc.
So Lhe boLLom llne ls, when you look aL boLh, Lhe local hosplLal and a forelgn-run-one, Lhe only
difference is actually the language and the other aspects of you know the technical skills thats are more
or less slmllar.
8ebecca Mayer
u
8: May l ask where you accessed your medlcal LreaLmenL and how you found lL Lhere. WhaL was your
experlence Lhere?
J: I think in I mean I went for, you know, medical treatment both in local and I think it was FV or Family
Medical, I cant remember.
CulLe honesLly l en[oyed Lhe local hosplLal a loL more, because l Lhlnk Lhe experlence of havlng wlLh and
paylng an exLremely hlgh premlum aL lamlly Medlcal or vlcLorla was unnecessary. 1he only beneflL Lhey
broughL of Lhe Lable was an Lngllsh speaklng docLor. 8uL when l wenL Lo Lhe local hosplLal l surely
reallzed LhaL many of Lhelr senlor consulLanLs are able Lo converse ln Lngllsh. And lf Lhey conLlnue Lo
malnLaln noL [usL a conversaLlon ln Lngllsh, buL a dlagnosLlc ln a blllngual, vleLnamese and Lngllsh
report, I dont think it would be very far factual for foreigner to choose the local hospital or FV or
vlcLorla or lamlly Medlcal.
8: Ckay. So your healLh care experlences here were noL so much dlfferenL from whaL you experlenced ln
Slngapore? Cr was Lhere any dlfference you saw?
!: 1here ls of course a dlfference when you compare Lo your home counLry. l Lhlnk Lhe comforL of Lhe
language would be a blg dlfference, so even Lhough you are Lalklng abouL lv, l mean you could be, you
could be speaking to a doctor, that can speak English, but or it could be an international crew, but will
have very llLLle undersLandlng of you know maybe local lssues or Aslan-based sympLoms and sLuff llke
LhaL.
Where else Slngapore docLors would already be very famlllar wlLh Lhe klnds of medlcal Lrends, medlcal
characLerlsLlcs LhaL you wlll have. lf you say, LhaL you have paln ln your, in your in certain parts of your
body, lL could be a counLry speclflc rlsk, a counLry speclflc, you know, lssue, maybe Loo much xyxyxy
causes gouL ln a speclflc counLry llke Slngapore. 1here may be noL such an lssue ln vleLnam, due Lo Lhe
dleLary differences. So, there is a differenceehm on the consultation side. In terms of the cost
structure there is also a difference. In Singapore when we are we are subsidies by our government. So
Lhe cosLs LhaL we pay ls relaLlvely low, compared Lo whaL we wlll pay ln lv hosplLal or lamlly Medlcal. lL
would be abouL Lhe same prlce as whaL you pay ln vleLnam ln a local hosplLal. 1he dlfference ls acLually
the consultation time as well as the access toeh equipment. So taking a MRI as an example ln
Slngapore l would have Lo walL for Lwo Lo Lhree monLhs. ln vleLnam l only needed Lo walL for one day aL
the local hospital. And the panel of the the reviews the medical MRI in Singapore would have been a
medlcal offlcer, whlch means an enLry level docLor, buL here Im getting, you know, the panel surgeons.
So Lhe quallLy of Lhe sofLware, ln Lerms of Lhe dlagnosLlc aspecLs ls a loL beLLer ln vleLnam for me, ln my
experlence aL Lhe local hosplLals, noL necessarlly aL Lhe forelgn hosplLals, Lhen ln Slngapore, buL Lhls ls a
system related full of events, its because of the fact that Singapore health care requires you to first
geL your dlagnosls done by a medlcal offlcer before lL ls escalaLed Lo a panel of surgeons lf you are Lhere.
Where else here Lhey would have already Lhe surgeons on sLandby, Lo advlce almosL lmmedlaLely afLer
Lhe medlcal reporL ls ln release.
8: Ckay, alrlghL. ls Lhere any, any lllness or anyLhlng you would go back or you wenL back Lo Slngapore Lo
geL Lhe LreaLmenL done Lhere?
8ebecca Mayer
v
!: l Lhlnk.... l have noL done so. 8uL lf you are Lo ask me, Lhe operaLlon relaLed unlLes where you wlll need
rehabilitative period of either occ eh physiotherapy or, you know, support of your family. Those I
would go back Lo Slngapore, you know. 1haL ls one a psychologlcal slde from a pracLlcal aspecL of
looklng for help, geLLlng help, you know.
lor qulck surgery, l mean noL surgery, buL qulck dlagnosLlc and sLuff llke LhaL l can geL lL ln vleLnam. l
Lhlnk one of Lhe Lhlngs LhaL one mlghL need Lo conslder ls also Lhe lnsurance coverage. So for example ln
Slngapore we have already exlsLlng lnsurance coverage. lL does mean LhaL lnpaLlenL or lnhosplLallsaLlon
relaLed cosLs would be bound by Lhe lnsurance. So even vleLnam relaLlvely cheaper, buL l mlghL noL be
paylng anyLhlng, lf l do lL ln Slngapore. So Lhen l would choose Slngapore, for Lhe reason LhaL l be closer
Lo my supporL sysLem and noL havlng Lo pay anyLhlng.
8: 8uL here you also, you have Lhe lnsurance Lhrough your employer, rlghL?
!: ?es, correcL. 8uL l Lhlnk one would have Lo examlne very qulck, ah very qulckly and very carefully
wheLher or noL Lhe lnsurance LhaL ls covered by your employer covers slmply ouLpaLlenL or does lL cover
hosplLallzaLlon? uoes lL cover, you know... physloLherapy relaLed posL-hosplLallzaLlon klnd of LreaLmenLs
or does lL cover ln hosplLallzaLlon [usL Lhe hosplLal sLaLe or does lL covers Lhe surgeons fees as well. So l
Lhlnk Lhere ls a caLegorlzaLlon of cosLs, LhaL you need Lo be cognlzanL of, so LhaL you are noL bot op Lo
say LhaL Lhe lnsurance ls sorL of llke a block beoJ covet for all, you know, Lhe lnsurance [usL covers
outpatient, it may not cover medical evacuations, so and so far
R: Alright. Just tolike ask more specifically: Did you ever go to another country for medical
LreaLmenL? rlmarlly for medlcal LreaLmenL as a medlcal LourlsL?
J: No, I dont think Ive done that as an individual. Although these would be common phenomenal into
days conLexL, where cross border Lravel and cross border LreaLmenL ls so accesslble.
8: ?ou menLloned many you mentioned a few things which are, which you can better access in
Slngapore: Medlcal LreaLmenLs. And you menLloned a few Lhlngs whlch mlghL be even beLLer ln
Vietnam. Is there anything you want to add which could be like medical treatment, in a general vlew,
whlch could be beLLer ln vleLnam Lhan ln Slngapore?
!: l can only share from my experlence, whaL l would say ls, noL qulLe beLLer, buL ob[ecLlvely elLher
cheaper because of Lhe cosLs, so LhaL would be llke your M8l or your ulLrasound. 1hls sorL of dlagnosLlc,
whlch requlres equlpmenL ls relaLlvely cheaper ln vleLnam for Lhe ln[urles LhaL l have had, llkewlse for
consulLaLlon fees of Lhe docLors as well as appolnLmenLs, Lhese are a loL fasLer and cheaper ln vleLnam
compared Lo Slngapore. 1o wheLher or noL Lhe operaLlon would be beLLer, Lo wheLher or noL Lhe
diagnostic is going to be more accurate in Singapore I think there is bit pte-mocbet for me Lo
comment, but at least the first opinion; it would have given me a lot of comfort in, in with the
vleLnamese hosplLals, for Lhem Lhey would have senL a senlor docLor Lo look aL some of Lhese ln[urles
and glve Lhe dlagnosLlc. So all l know, l Lhlnk, Jlet ls cheaper ln vleLnam, access Lo equlpmenL,
diagnostic, access to senior doctors is also faster. BuL Slngapore glves Lhe comforL of belng closer Lo
home and lf you need furLher LreaLmenLs, lf you need furLher healLh supporL Lhere ls Lhe famlly neLwork
as well as Lhe hosplLal neLwork LhaL you know, you can geL access Lo very qulckly as well.
8ebecca Mayer
W
8: Ckay, alright. At the end I want maybe you can share one experience with me, one very concrete
experlence you had ln a hosplLal here. lor example, l would be very lnLeresLed, you sald you vlslLed
boLh, prlvaLe and publlc hosplLals or healLh care provlders. So l would be lnLeresLed lf you can Lell a llLLle
blL more concreLe Lhe experlence you had ln Lhe publlc hosplLal compared Lo Lhe prlvaLe hosplLal, ln
Lerms of llke language barrler or language ln general, ln Lerms of cleanllness, ln Lerms of Lhe LreaLmenL
lLself. So whaL was your lmpresslon ln Lerms of frlendllness of Lhe sLaff?
J: I dont think there is a I dont think there is a lot of significant difference but I will point out some,
which I felt in a personal, made a difference. Eh In public hospitals I thlnk Lhe language used conLlnues
Lo be vleLnamese. 1hese would be Lhe maln sLaLe, who l expecLed Lo change. Where else ln prlvaLe
hosplLals or Lhe forelgn-owned hosplLals Lhe language used, qulLe from Lhe onseL, ls Lngllsh. So, lf you
are unable Lo converse baslc vleLnamese, you wlll flnd Lhe publlc hosplLals a llLLle blL daunLlng, Lo even
geL your flrsL LreaLmenL, so LhaL means LhaL people ln Lhelr flrsL or second year ln vleLnam may noL
conslder publlc hosplLals, buL people who are sLaylng here afLer four Lo flve years, who are speaklng
baslc level of vleLnamese, would conslder publlc hosplLals, slmply because Lhey are geLLlng Lhe same
stuff, but at a much reasonable price. In terms of cleanliness, I think its a subjective assessment. So I
would noL Lhlnk LhaL Lhere are slgnlflcanL dlfferences beLween boLh Lhe publlc and a prlvaLe. l mean noL
prlvaLe, buL Lhe forelgn-owned one. l Lhlnk LhaL ls funcLlon of number of people ln a hosplLal, so
obvlously, lf you go Lo a hosplLal whlch has hlgher publlc vlslLaLlon, Lhere wlll be a loL more nolse and
percelve unLldlness, buL Lo a prlvaLe hosplLal you wlll see a blL more excluslvlLy, because of Lhe hlgher
prlce range whlch means only a llmlLed people can go Lhere. uoes lL mean LhaL lL ls much cleaner? no.
uoes lL mean its much more sterile, in terms of its process? I dont think so.
ln Lerms of LreaLmenL agaln, my polnL ls, l do noL flnd a slgnlflcanL value aL on from Lhe forelgn hosplLals,
malnly because l Lhlnk Lhey charge a premlum for Lhe language buL noL necessarlly for Lhe Lechnlcal
experLlse. Many of Lhe Lechnlcal experLlse ln Lerms of dlagnosLlc LreaLmenLs and dlagnosLlc lnvenLory
sLlll goes back Lo Lhe governmenL hosplLal, whlch really has purchased equlpmenL.
So Lhe Lhree polnLs l menLloned, l Lhlnk capLures Lhe facL LhaL, Lhe vleLnamese hosplLals Lo someone
who has sLayed ln vleLnam for abouL four, flve years, ls a very aLLracLlve opLlon and one does noL have
Lo go Lowards a, you know, a forelgn hosplLal Lo acLually geL Lhe LreaLmenL as well as Lhe volooble.
8: uld you ever consldered because Ive heard like that Ho Chi Minh City should be good for like dental
treatment or now Im working in an eye hospital, so is quite popular for eye treatments, did you ever
conslder llke Lo geL any cosmeLlc surgery, cosmeLlc denLal care or lf you need cosmeLlc llke eye care here
ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy?
!: 1he shorL answer ls no and Lhe reason ls because l Lhlnk Lhls ls very much Lyped Lo lndlvldual
preferences, especially if its cosmetic. For dental, the short answer is yes, l would have consldered LhaL,
because Lhe denLal LreaLmenL ls, Lechnlcal LreaLmenL LhaL you need, regular, you know, checkups, so
those are very much possible in Ho Chi Minh and I think thats what I actively considered.
R: But youre talking about the baslc denLal care now or cosmeLlc denLal care?
8ebecca Mayer
x
!: 8aslc denLal care. l Lhlnk area speclflc Lo cosmeLlcs LhaL becomes a personal preference. So Lhe flrsL
oLher quesLlon ls would you ever conslder cosmeLlc surgery or cosmeLlc enhancemenLs. And lf Lhe
answer ls no, Lhan wheLher ls vleLnam, Slngapore or 1halland lL does noL maLLer. So my polnL ls LhaL my
flrsL oLher quesLlon ls would l ever conslder cosmeLlc enhancemenLs. My answer ls no.
8: Ckay, LhaL would be my quesLlon. So lf you have llke anyLhlng Lo add abouL healLh care, abouL healLh
care provlders, Lhen say lL know.
J: No, I dont think I have anything else to add on to the earlier points Ive made.
8: Ckay, Lhank you!

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R: All right, so lets start. First of all I would like to ask you to introduce yourself, tell a little bit about
yourself and why you came to Vietnam and what youre doing here.
1: My name ls 1rang n.. l came Lo vleLnam abouL flve years ago, flve years ago, yes and l work as a
consulLanL here ln vleLnam. ?eah.
8: Ckay, all rlghL. When you declded Lo move Lo vleLnam was LhaL a qulck declslon or dld you have Llme
Lo prepare? Can you Lell me a llLLle blL abouL LhaL?
T: I didnt have time to prepare. It was a yeah, a very quick decision actually. I didnt think too much
abouL lL, because lnlLlally l only planned Lo sLay for abouL year or Lwo years.
R: Okay. The first time you came here was just for like a
1: A shorL perlod of Llme.
8: Ckay. All rlghL. uld you have any worry abouL anyLhlng aL LhaL Llme?
T: Ehm How do I gonna fit in, what Vietnam is like, you know culture life, business, environment, thats
abouL lL.
R: And when you arrived you arrived in Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, rlghL?
1: ?eah.
8: WhaL was your flrsL lmpresslon?
8ebecca Mayer
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T: Eh Too many people, very busy city eh many motorbikes. And yeah, how to say, the how would
I say that, it is a developing country, its just its different because I came from Sydney, so
8: WhaL was Lhe blggesL challenge?
1: 8uslness culLure, l Lhlnk. AsslmllaLe lnLo Lhe buslness culLure here.
R: Alright. And ehm So I think for a good balance its important do something for your wellbeing. So I
would like to know what youre doing Lo feel healLhy, Lo have a good wellbelng.
T: Eh Well, I suppose to go on exercise, which I dont do enough. Off. Recently. Ehm But, thats about
lL. LaL healLhy, buL Lry Lo anyway.
8: uld you flnd LhaL dlfflculL ln your flrsL weeks, ln your flrsL monLh?
T: Eh No, it was okay. Because company is taking care of my when I move here they took care of my
flrsL few weeks, ln Lerms of accommodaLlons. And l came here, because l already have a [ob offer, rlghL,
so everyLhlng ls Laken care of, lncludlng my flrsL few weeks, ln Lerms of accommodaLlon, l had healLh
lnsurance already, so LhaL was noL a blg deal.
R: May I ask where youre doing the exercise? Are you going somewhere, or are you have it..?
T: Typically its just I just run around where I live or at Lhe gym.
R: Okay, alright. Ehm Is there anything you would like to do to feel healthier but you cannot, for any
reason?
1: cycle ls noL a loL Lo do. lull sLop. l mean l came from a place, where Lhere ls a loL of ouLdoor acLlvlLles,
you can [usL go away, Lhere ls parks, Lhere ls beaches, Lhere ls Lhlngs Lo do and see. And you can [usL
walk around. Cant do that in Saigon. Well you can do it. Walk around the park here, but even the park
here there is too many people, there is just a lot of people. Ehm And ln Salgon, unless you Lry Lo geL
ouL, llke 8omtboo, Lhere ls noL a loL Lo do here.
8: AlrlghL. Ckay. And l would also llke Lo know whaL was your flrsL lmpresslon of healLh care ln Po Chl
Mlnh or ln vleLnam ln general?
T: Eh If you talk about private health care, I think its pretty good. Public health care is different. Public
health care is. Probably I dont wanna get sick here and dont have a private health insurance.
8: Pave you ever been Lo a prlvaLe healLh care provlder?
T: Yeah, thats all I go here.
8: And Lo a publlc healLh care provlder?
1: ?eah, hosplLal, local hosplLal. My mum was slck.
8: Ckay.
8ebecca Mayer
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1: So she was sLaylng ln a hosplLal ln vleLnam for abouL Lhree monLhs. And she was ln lnLenslve care
preLLy much, for llke half LhaL Llme. So l experlenced Lhe healLh care here.
R: Okay, can you describe me a little more about that. Like Maybe like quite concrete. When you
enLered Lhe hosplLal whaL dld you feel?
T: Is if I compare, is coming from The biggest shock was that the family members had to take care of
the patients. From turning them for example, cause some patients, if theyre in a coma or they cannot
move, you have Lo Lurn Lhem, rlghL? So preLLy much everyLhlng from feedlng Lhem, changlng Lhelr
diapers, if they are unconscious the family members had to take care of it.
ln developed markeLs, ln our counLrles, everyLhlng ls golng Lo Laken care of. 1he healLh sLaff Lhey would
Lake care of everyLhlng, Lhey wouldnt allow patients, like family members to touch the patient, right?
Here in Vietnam is different. If you dont have money, thats it. So is all like What shocked me is, I have
Lo pay for an lv-tube, I have to pay for my, they washed my mums clothes, Lhe cloLhes she wear, as a
paLlenL l have Lo pay for LhaL, for Lhe washlng of LhaL cloLhes.
So coming from a country where health care is free and I mean its just world class, that was a big shock.
And you baslcally as famlly members, and you slL ouLslde, Lhe lnLenslve care unlL, and you had Lo slL
Lhere 24/7 [usL ln case Lhey need someLhlng from you. 1hey need you Lo buy blood, l mean whaL Lhe
hell? Is that .
You need to buy a blade, so they can shave your relatives head, so they can have an operaLlon. 8lghL,
thats just Put it this way: Very simple. Life is cheap in Vietnam, if you dont have money. You go to
hospital, and Ive seen it, patients going in, who had a stroke or a car accident and they can tell you:
Well, Lhls person has 30 chance of survlvlng, you wanna ask conLlnue, Laklng care and have surgery or
you can Lake LhaL paLlenL home and leL LhaL person dle, because Lhe chance of survlval, or Lhe chance of
survlvlng ls 30. l mean you puL famlly or relaLlves ln a very dlfflculL poslLlon, because whaL ls lf Lhey
dont have money. Alright, then, what Do I pay or not pay? I meant, its putting the question to the
family and the relatives is a very difficult situation. And yeah. What is if you dont have money? The
good chance Lo dle, cause they dont And the bill they give you is that long [shows with her hand],
maxlmlzes everyLhlng. Ah, [eah.
8: Ckay. Maybe ln comparlson, lf you go Lo a prlvaLe hosplLal here: WhaL are your feellngs when you go
to your regular health care or?
1: l mean healLh care ls loyoot, I mean I havent been to hospital yet, private hospital, but Ive been to
clinic, right, health care clinic. And its clean, its up to the world standard. You know, you have doctors,
and the room and everything, its just like what youve seen in Australia or the US.
But you have to pay a lot of money for it right? I mean if you stay overnight, its 500$, just staying
overnlghL. 1hose faclllLy. LaLer on you have Lo pay for all Lhe medlcaLlon as well.
8: So you are accesslng all your healLh care LreaLmenLs here ln vleLnam or ls Lhere any healLh
LreaLmenLs, you are accesslng abroad?
T: Ehm I havent touched.... I havent come across that situation. I mean here its just mainly health
check. Eh Thats it. I havent. I think some of the tesLs, Lhey have Lo send lL Lo Slngapore, so Lhe healLh
8ebecca Mayer
AA
clinic I got to, they send the test to Singapore, to collect the test, because they dont have the facility.
But, I think for everything else I might probably go back home, thats probably cheaper and safer and I
would go back home.
R: Ehm And for me like that might be a little bit weird question, but did you ever consider if you find
a [ob somewhere else, Lo move lf Lhe healLh care would be beLLer Lhere, or why would you conslder
LhaL?
T: Ehm No. I Lhlnk when you have famlly or cbllJteo or when Im a bit older that view might change,
especlally lf l have chlldren, LhaL vlew would change, because Lhere ls more need Lo access healLh care,
so typically its the age where, yeah, you gonna get sick more frequenLly and you have, you know,
children, again. But if there is no need, yeah, its okay.
R: Another question is: Did you ever consider or no not consider, but did you ever go to another
counLry Lo [usL have your healLh care LreaLmenLs Lhere, so llke as a medlcal LourlsL?
1: no.
R: Ehm Okay, I think, thats it already. If there is anything you want to add about like health care,
healLh care LreaLmenLs ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, your lmpresslon of Lhe healLh care sysLem. AnyLhlng you
would llke Lo say.
1: I think in Australia thats not new. Everybody knows that, proper health care here is not necessarily
this good. If you have money, if you have private health care, its good. If you need specialists, if you
need speclallsL LreaLmenL, vleLnam mlghL noL be Lhe place. ?ou mlghL need Lo go Lo Slngapore or
elsewhere. Just because you cant get the doctors. And health care in Vietnam is not big enough. Eh In
term of private hospital to deal with many cases, right? Ehm Public hospital is a different story. Publlc
hosplLal Lhere ls huge, huge need.
?ou know reform. 1he quesLlon ls when. 8ecause Lhe demand ls Lhere, Lhe need ls Lhere, buL Lhe pollcy,
the mechanism in terms of government encouraging foreign investors and make it better. Its still a long
way. Thats reality. In fact some of you know, we have good doctors here ehm but again, it doesnt
matter how good a doctor is you have, if you dont have the equipment, you dont have you know.
Lven lf you go, you send Lhe docLors Lo oversea Lralnlng and Lhey come back and Lhe equlpmenL ls very
outdated there is no way the doctors here can utilize the skills that they learned abroad. So, first its to
improve, its, you know, its an effort within the government, as well as the people itself. And again, this
ls noL new, buL you know, lf you go Lo a good hosplLal, you have money Lhen, Lhey Lake good care of
you. 1he docLor geLs pald so low, LhaL everyone has a cllnlc aL home because Lhey make more money aL
home. So its also a question of ethics as well. You read more abouL lL, you wlll see Lhere are many,
many lssues abouL, you know, eLhlcal sLandards of docLors, you know healLh care, llke healLh servlce
sLaff ln vleLnam, llke l sald Lo you, llke you know, a nurse ln vleLnam would noL Lake care of a paLlenL.
1hey [usL go and Lhey [usL, you know, glve a shoL Lo Lhe paLlenL, buL Lhey would noL clean Lhe paLlenL,
Lhey would noL baLh Lhe paLlenL, Lhey would noL do whaL a nurse ls supposed Lo do, slmply because
offlclally Lhe salary, Lhe wage ls crap, very, very low. 8ight? And its a very pressure job. All the stress,
8ebecca Mayer
88
right? So, yeah there is huge need, huge reform is required. When its gonna happen? Be questionmark,
rlghL?
R: Okay, so, since Im here I learned or heard many times that Ho Chi Minh City might be famous for,
like because Im working in a eye hospital, might be famous for some eye treatments, LASIK
LreaLmenLs, LhaL Po Chl Mlnh ClLy ls also famous for denLal LreaLmenLs and maybe cosmeLlc denLal
LreaLmenLs and cosmeLlc surgerles. So, l would llke Lo know lf you heard abouL LhaL as well and lf you
conslder dolng such LreaLmenLs here lnsLead of golng back Lo AusLralla and do lL Lhere?
1: uenLal, yeah. l mean denLal ls known. And Lhe reason lL ls cheap, ls LhaL labour ls cheap. Agaln buL you
have to do it. Its cheap relatively compared to developed countries because I think, the professional
indemnity cost is lower, right? So, again, cosmetic surgery you have to have money. Its cheaper, but its
not cheap for local. But it is relatively cheap and its not high rlsk. CosmeLlc surgery ls a popular Lhlng,
because everybody feel, you know lack of confidence or they wanna look better they wanna So, is a
boom. Its a booming industry in Vietnam. And in fact its a booming industry, because the rich people
here, Lhe rlch vleLnamese wanL Lo access LhaL, Lhe same wlLh healLh care, ls LhaL only Lhe rlch
vleLnamese LhaL can access LhaL sorL of servlce. ls noL LhaL aL all abouL mlddle lncome, low. no.
So, investors who come to Vietnam I know a friend who come to VieLnam as an lnvesLor and aL Lhe
end of Lhe day he Lrled Lo open a cllnlc, a setlol cllnlc, provlde you know affordable healLh care Lo mlddle
lncome earner, you know. And Lhere ls so many tlqbt toy, you know so many and the return of
lnvesLmenL ls so low. LaLer on he declded maybe Lo go lnLo cosmeLlc surgery as a buslness. 8ecause
again its always about making money. So the rich people would take. Or he just I think, recently he
[usL boughL anoLher hosplLal, Lo geL lnLo Lhe markeL, rlghL? So, yeah, l mean ls know. And denLal ls
developed. Is know, is cheap and its relatively safe. Do it here and yes its fine. There is no issues there.
But again, if its coming out, even if you say, its famous here, its famous because because is not
necessarlly affordable for the local. Its affordable for the expats and rich Vietnamese. Yeah, its still
relaLlvely cheaper Lhan lf Lhey do lL ln Lhelr home counLry.
8: Could you lmaglne LhaL ln Lhe nexL 3, 10 years, LhaL healLh care lmproves a loL ln vleLnam?
1: l hope so. l Lhlnk, of governmenL ls wllllng Lo change and compromlse and llsLen Lo Lhe prlvaLe
investlike the If they make the policy more attractive to foreigner. If they willing to reform the
lndusLry: ?es. 1haL Lakes a loL of efforL. 8uL Lhe governmenL ls Lhe key. 1hey have Lo seL Lhe sLandard,
Lhey have Lo seL Lhe sLandard, Lhey have Lo enforce LhaL sLandard. vleLnam ls many vltlqool ln laylng
down Lhe sLandard, rlghL, lf you looked aL sLandard Lhey have everyLhlng. LnforcemenL ls Lhe problem.
8lghL? So, go ouL and you acLually vlgorously checklng and maklng sure LhaL Lhe cllnlc ouL Lhere, you
know, ls provldlng proper healLh care.
You know, not sure if you heard about the doctors case, where he didnt have his license, but he bought
hls llcense Lo do cosmeLlc surgery and baslcally he kllled someone and Lhrow LhaL body lnLo Lhe rlver
and till now they cannot find it, right? So, in Vietnam they need to and I think also people awareness
here and lL Lakes educaLlon, rlghL? 8ecause here Lhe vleLnamese ls when lL comes Lo healLh care, ls very
easy. Oh yeah, I know that doctor, I dont need to know if he is good or not. Just gets word-mouLh, he ls
really good and they blindly believe it. They dont think of service, health care service. Classic example is:
8ebecca Mayer
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1hey geL a prescrlpLlon or l feel slck and geL a prescrlpLlon and you know self dlagnose. nexL Llme l geL
slck wlLh Lhe same sympLoms, lnsLead of golng Lo Lhe docLors l wlll use Lhe same prescrlpLlon and go Lo
Lhe pharmacy and purchase Lhe same. Same klnd of medlcaLlon. So self-medlcaLe Lhemselves. So,
awareness also. And Lo do LhaL, ls Lhe governmenL ls also asked xyxyx. ls Lhe mlnlsLer of healLh ls dolng
that. So, ehm And then reform and pay the doctors probably. You know a doctor, I think a graduate
docLor, afLer sLudylng for slx years, l Lhlnk Lhey geL pald maybe 200$ a monLh, ln Lerms of offlclal salary,
how can?
l mean average ln AusLralla a docLor would geL, fresh graduaLe, noL even speclallsL yeL, he works ln a
hosplLal, Lhe salary aL leasL 60.000$ / 70.000$ a year. ?ou lmaglne LhaL? ?eah, so Lhere ls a loL Lo be
done ln Lhe nexL flve years, l hope so, because Lhere ls demand, buL lL need Lo change from Lhe
governmenL perspecLlve, ln Lerms of pollcy maklng. Pope so, l hope so.
8: Ckay, alrlghL. 1hank you very much for answerlng Lhe quesLlons.
1: ?ou are welcome!

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8: llrsL of all l would llke you Lo lnLroduce yourself, Lell a little bit about yourself, what youre doing here
ln vleLnam, slnce when are you llvlng here?
C: Chamira E. Ive been living here for the last, almost last three years. Working first as an RMIT Student
and Lhen as a Leacher aL a hlgh school.
8: And how old are you?
C: Me? Eh Older than 25 [laughing].
8: Ckay, so when you declded Lo move Lo vleLnam. Was LhaL a qulck declslon or dld you have Llme Lo
prepare before you came Lo vleLnam?
C: lL was acLually a qulck declslon. 8ecause lf l prepared, l would never have made lL here. l mean
comlng Lo vleLnam ls noL economlcally a raLlonal declslon. lt took o lot of locome. So, its yeah more of a
qulck declslon, buL l know lL was probably Lhe rlghL one Lo make.
8: Ckay, aL LhaL Llme when you sLarLed or declded Lo move Lo vleLnam. uld you worry abouL anyLhlng,
abouL your llfe here or abouL anyLhlng?
8ebecca Mayer
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C: No, no, not at all. No, because Vietnam I had been in Ho Chi Minh City before, so I know the life
here ls preLLy easy golng. 8uL yes, l was always worrled abouL Lhe unknowns llke, see, whaL wlll l do afLer
l flnlsh school, wlll l geL a [ob, wlll l sLay, and all LhaL lnformaLlon. 8uL Lhlngs usually work ouL, so on and
so on.
R: Okay, alright. And when you arrived in Ho Chi Minh, it was not your first time, but its maybe your flrsL
Llme you llve here for longer, rlghL? So, whaL was your flrsL lmpresslon of Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, of llvlng here
as a long Lerm resldenL?
C: l Lhlnk Po Chl Mlnh ClLy ls a greaL place Lo llve on a shorL Lerm resldence, buL long Lerm resldence Im
not quite sold on that idea, so I think its a great place for a short term.
8: WhaL do you Lhlnk, why ls lL noL good Lo sLay here for longer?
C: Ehm Healthcare, job safety, political situation. Those things doesnt have and especially the rule of
law, right? Its a different system to what Im used to, so yeah, so I dont see myself here in a long run.
But in the short run its an awesome place. Its an awesome place in a short time.
8: ln whlch aspecLs?
C: 1he llfe lLself. ?ou gonna geL Lo en[oy your life, go out. Even your work, but you dont have to work so
hard, so aL Lhe same Llme you balance lL wlLh Lhe soclal llfe here.

R: So, its easy to have a social life here and the work-llfe-balance ln general ls very easy?
C: CorrecL.
8: Ckay, so l wanL Lo go a llLLle blL deeper lnLo healLh care. ?ou sald lL mlghL be a problem here or lL
mlghL be a problem for a long Lerm sLay.
C: LxacLly.
8: Can you please explaln me why?
C: In Canada health care is free, so Im a health conscious person. So, I usually go for medlcal checkups
and everyLhlng and l do lL accordlng Lo Lhe book. 8uL here Lhere ls no accounLablllLy lf you go Lo any
hospital or any doctors. There is no accountability. So youre not quite sure, whether are you getting the
rlghL advlce, because they dont have accountability. If they give you wrong advice or they treat you
Jefloe, if they make a mistake. So that aspect for example I would be scared, if I brake my knee,
because Lhe process of geLLlng a surgery, recovery, l would LrusL more of Lhe medlcal pracLlces ln Lhe uS
and Canada. In Canada there is people who does it, they have accountability. So here they dont. But
here healLh care cosL ls much cheaper Lhan ln Canada. l mean LhaL would be ln Lhe uS, because ln
Canada its free.
8: 1o whaL klnd of healLh care provlder are you golng here ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy?
8ebecca Mayer
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C: Usually just go to a normal doctor, if I get sick. And, so
8: So Lo a local hosplLal or ls lL a prlvaLe docLor or Lhe cllnlc?
C: AcLually, Lhe lasL Llme l wenL Lo a local cllnlc, buL had Lo walL Loo long, so Lhen Lhey opened up Lhe
prlvaLe cllnlc, so l had Lo spend a whole loL of money. Close Lo more Lhan 1.000.000.
8: So was lL a vleLnamese prlvaLe cllnlc or a forelgn-owned one?
C: Yes, it is. Its a Vietnamese private clinic, yes. noL Lhe lv hosplLal. l have been Lo lv hosplLal Lo geL
some... lv hosplLal has good producLs for ln[urles, llke lf you have safeLy lLems. ?ou can buy aL lv
hosplLal. 1hen a local place.
R: Could you Because now you like you have seen three health care provlders already: 1he publlc
hosplLal, Lhe vleLnamese prlvaLe hosplLal and Lhe forelgn prlvaLe hosplLal. So for me lL would be very
lnLeresLlng lf you could compare Lhem a llLLle blL, llke whaL you experlenced Lhere, whaL your feellngs
were.
C: lf you go Lo a local cllnlc, Lhe cosL ls qulLe low. 8uL you have Lo walL for long. ?ou have Lo walL ln Lhe
llne for much longer, buL even ln Lhe local cllnlcs lf you pay cerLaln addlLlonal fee, you can cuL ln fronL of
the line and but the results of your blood tesLs and Lhose Lhlngs Lakes longer. 8uL when l wenL Lo Lhe
local hosplLal prlvaLe cllnlc Lhe resulLs of Lhe blood LesL, everyLhlng was amazlngly fasL. l Lhlnk lL came
back wlLhln 30 mlnuLes or someLhlng llke LhaL. 8uL lf you have gone Lo a local cllnlc, lL would have been
Lhe nexL day, buL l wanLed Lhe resulLs rlghL away, because l was worrled lL was dengue fever. So lf lL was
dengue fever I didnt want to pay the chance, so I am a cost conscious person, but at that time I wasnt
cosL consclous because l was more worried about my health and to make sure Im safe versus taking the
risk of waiting another day or two, if Ive gone to a local clinic. And
But most even the local clinics, or even the private clinics, they dont speak English much, they had
Lhese even the doctors hardly speaks English.
8: uld you flnd LhaL was a barrler Lo go Lhere?
C: noL aL all, because l wenL wlLh my vleLnamese frlends, who speaks Lngllsh fluenLly. So Lhey helped
me ouL on Lhe LranslaLlon parL.
8: And lf you would have Lo go Lhere alone. Would you choose anoLher hosplLal or would you choose
Lhe same?
C: !usL Lhe same hosplLal, because Lhrough my experlence here, language has never been a problem for
me, even if they dont speak English, I just find a way to communicate with Lhem whaL l wanL and Lhen
Lhey would sLlll help me ouL. 8uL LhaL would have Laken longer, longer Llme Lo leL Lhem know whaL l
want. If I had a friend its much faster.
R: Since youre living here in Vietnam, did you ever access health care abroad?
C: no, no, no.
8ebecca Mayer
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8: Ckay, so you access all your healLh care needs here ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy.
C: ?es, yes.
R: Would there be any reason would you consider to access health care abroad, if there would be
cerLaln reason?
C: Ehm The only time Like if I had a major surgery or someLhlng. l would noL do lL ln vleLnam. l
probably would go back Lo do Lhe surgerles.
8: 1o Canada?
C: ?es. lf l would break my knee and l need a knee surgery l probably would go back home Lo do lL,
although its quite cheap here. The surgery is qulLe lasL. 8uL l would raLher have somebody who ls
responslble, someLhlng was wrong.
8: Can you llke Lell me some of Lhe aspecLs why you would go back Lo Canada. ?ou sald already Lhe
responslblllLy you have, maybe ln Canada ls beLLer, maybe ls cheaper. Are Lhere any oLher aspecLs?
C: Oh, I think its a better quality. Like, I wouldnt trust somebody with my body, cutting and chopping
unless l know Lhey are well quallfled for LhaL poslLlon. And from my knowledge none of Lhe vleLnamese
docLors would be quallfled Lo pracLlce medlclne ouLslde of vleLnam. So, l mean excepL ln Cambodla and
Lao. I think those are the only places where Vietnams qualifications are accepted. So, if they would go
anywhere ouLslde, Lhelr quallflcaLlons are accepLed. So, LhaL probably Lells me someLhlng ls wrong wlLh
the medical schools here, the quality of the medical schools here. So I would not want to take the risk.
8: ln general whaL are you dolng Lo sLay ln a good healLh condlLlon, Lo feel well and good?
C: LaL healLhy, exerclse, waLch how much sweeLs l eaL, be careful wlLh Lhe sweaLs l consume because l
have a one of my weaknesses is sweet. So I try to limit that. Replace that with more vegetables and
wlLh healLhler alLernaLlves.
8: uld you flnd LhaL easy or dlfflculL ln vleLnam?
C: Eh About the same, its about the same. Yes. Because, actually I would say the cakes are better in
Viet ah in Canada. The cakes are much better in Canada that in Vietnam. Like chocolate cake, cheese
cake.
8: Ah, okay, so you Lhlnk maybe here you have Lhe rlsk Lo eaL more sweeLs? Cr ln Canada?
C: In Canada is higher risk. Because the cakes are I find the quality of the cakes are much better. The
bakery ls much beLLer ln Canada, so you would have a hlgher raLe of cravlng for LhaL Lhan ln vleLnam
because the quality of the sweets, the bakeries are not so high as in Canada. So then its easier to
remain healthy. And also One of the biggest advantages, when it comes to eating healthy here is, the
access Lo fresh vegeLables here ls amazlng, ls amazlng. Llke ln Canada, llke unless you go Lo Lhe local
8ebecca Mayer
CC
market during the summer, pretty much cant fresh vegetables. Everything comes from Costa Rica or
Mexlco.
8: Pave you ever been before Lo a counLry [usL Lo access healLh care Lhere? As a medlcal LourlsL?
C: no, never.
8: Would you conslder LhaL?
C: Eh No, not really. I have no medical condition that would require me to look for overseas medical
attention, which pretty much, almost all medical facilities in Canada is efficient enough. I dont need to
go ouLslde.
R: Was there any Or maybe you can just pick any experience you had with the hospitals, with the
doctors here and you can tell me a little bit either if its more a bad experience or a good experience.
!usL plck one whlch ls remarkable, you wanL Lo share.
C: 1he lasL Llme l was slck, l acLually been Lo a local cllnlc Lhe walL was so long so Lhey opened up Lhe
private clinic just for me. And the like everything was super fast. Like everything was super fast. They
Look Lhe blood, all Lhe resulL came ouL, Lhey analyzed lL rlghL away. LveryLhlng was done ln llke less Lhan
30 minutes to an hour. But if you go to Canada you dont have that option. That is you dont have the
prlvaLe medlcal opLlon. Lverybody ls LreaLed equally. So you are LreaLed based on priority. So doesnt
maLLer how rlch you are, how poor you are, you are all LreaLed Lhe same, dependlng on your medlcal
condition. So, thats one advantage here that if you have money, you can buy pass-Lhe-llne and geL
treated better, but if you dont, you are kind of out of luck, to better. Quality align thats really bad for
the poor people but then since I can afford to buy pass-Lhe-line, its an advantage for me. So, yeah, if
you have Lhe money, you geL really fasL medlcal servlce here.
8: So, Po Chl Mlnh ClLy ls also known for cheap cosmeLlc surgerles, would you conslder geLLlng any
cosmeLlc surgerles or any cosmeLlc denLal care here ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, lnsLead of golng somewhere
else? Cr would you conslder aL all?
C: Cosmetics means like eh normal denLal work or someLhlng you would do ouLslde of regular denLal
work?
8: 1haL you would do ouLslde of necessary denLal work. lor example bleachlng Lhe LeeLh, whlLenlng Lhe
teeth
C: No, I wouldnt! I dont like the cosmetic dental, but in Ho Chi Minh City I wouldnt hesitate to do
normal dental work, general dental work. I would not think its important enough to go oversea for that.
l Lhlnk Po Chl Mlnh ClLy has enough probablllLles for LhaL.
8: So ln general cosmeLlc surgerles ls noLhlng you would conslder aL all?
C: Exactly. Yes, yes. Because I think its just only temporarily, because people do cosmetic and then the
reason you need cosmetic is you already had bad habits and if you do it, its only a temporarily thing,
8ebecca Mayer
PP
because you reverse back Lo your bad hablLs, whlch broughL you Lo LhaL place anyway. So, l Lhlnk l
would raLher prefer Lo change my bad hablL, Lo make change, Lhan geLLlng a cosmeLlc surgery.
8: Ckay, Lhls would be my quesLlons. 8uL lf you have Lhe feellng anyLhlng ls mlsslng abouL healLh care
provlders ln vleLnam, ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy, anyLhlng abouL healLh care.
C: I think health care comparing to how I my impression to first time I was in Vietnam, I was in Ho Chi
Minh City, its improving drastically. Like conditions and level of the health care provlders are lncreaslng
drasLlcally and Lhe quallLy ls golng up. 8uL Lhen Lhe oLher slde of Lhe quallLy aspecL ls, ls only for Lhe rlch
people. PealLh care ls only lmprovlng for Lhe rlch people. noL for Lhe poor people, noL for Lhe general
publlc. So Lhe general publlc sLlll has Lo go Lhrough Lhe crude medlcal sysLem you have ln Po Chl Mlnh
ClLy versus ma[or hosplLals llke lv hosplLal only caLers Lo Lhe rlch and Lhe mlddle class, upper and Lhe
rlch people ln vleLnam, whlch ls noL a falr sysLem.
8: So, just I want to know, if I understood right. You said health care is increasing, is getting better?
C: ?es, Lhe quallLy of healLh care ls lmprovlng drasLlcally.
8: ln every secLlon? ln publlc and prlvaLe hosplLals?
C: rlvaLe. !usL ln prlvaLe.
8: So you dont see that in public hospitals?
C: No, no, no. Ive been to like some private hospitals, Im sorry, public hospitals. The conditions are not
even reasonable. I wont think its an acceptable level.
8: WhaL condlLlons are comlng Lo your mlnd?
C: l Lhlnk cleanliness, eh availability of modern equipments, modern technologies. I dont think a poor
person can afford a C81, a cotscoo or an M8l, rlghL? So llke one of my frlends he broke hls leg, buL Lhe
doctor just fixed his legs, he didnt do a surgery, but lf he had Lhe opLlon he could have Laken an M8l and
then he knows that yeah there is no need of a surgery. But yeah they let him heel on his own, but so
lf you have money you can Lake anoLher opLlon, buL lf you have noL, you are sLuck wlLhln, you have Lo
Lake Lhe rlsk of maklng sure LhaL everyLhlng ls alrlghL.
8: Ckay, alrlghL. 1hank you very much!
C: Youre welcome!

8ebecca Mayer
ll
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8: So, flrsL of all maybe you can lnLroduce yourself a llLLle blL, llke whaL ls your name, how long you've
been worklng for lf-consulLlng and how long you have been ln vleLnam.

C: Ckay. ?ou wanL Lo sLarL or?

v: Ckay, for me lL's easy. l am vleLnamese orlgln, as you can see. And l am worklng for ll Lhree years and
a few monLhs now. lL's qulLe a long Llme. And l came back ln vleLnam four years and a half already. So l
don'L know whaL Lo say...

8: And before you were where?

v: ln lrance.

8: Ah, ln lrance. Ckay. l see.

C: So me, l'm born ln llnland, grow up ln lrance and came Lo vleLnam Lhe flrsL Llme flve years ago. l
work ln ll-consulLlng Lwo years now, ln Lhe markeLlng deparLmenL. So, a loL of Lhlngs Lo do noL really
someLhlng lnLeresLlng, buL we're expandlng Asla now. So we have been focuslng ln expaLrlaLes ln
vleLnam for mosLly before. LeL's say 80, 90 of our cllenLs are medlcal lnsured ln vleLnam.

8: Ckay. So LhaL would be my nexL quesLlon. Llke, can you Lell me a llLLle blL abouL ll-consulLlng, llke Lhe
rough... llke whaL you're dolng and how Lhls buslness works and how many cllenLs you have, how many
cllenLs you lnsure or puL for Lhe lnsurers?

C: ll-consulLlng has been here for, leL's say 20 years, more or less. SLarLlng ln 1994. So, lL wlll be 20 years
Lhls year acLually. AbouL cllenLs, leL's say roughly we have around over 1300 medlcal lnsurance cllenLs.
eople as we lnsure, LhaL can be groups, LhaL can be lndlvldual. Well, l can'L glve Lhe exacL... l can'L glve
lL because lL's qulLe confldenLlal, of course.

8: 8uL Lhls ls Lhe number aL Lhe momenL?

C: 1haL's lL. 1300, l would say roughly. Around LhaL. 1haL's how many llves we have here lnsured. 1hen of
course we have Lhe house, Lhe cars, all LhaL, LhaL mlghL be roughly 200 non-medlcal people who are
lnsured. 1haL can be facLory also, buL l guess we're focuslng on Lhe medlcal, rlghL? lor your needs?

8: ?es.
8ebecca Mayer
!!

C: So, ehm...

v: WhaL we are dolng ln medlcal acLually, we can potsoe lL, we does SnACk.

C: So we do Lhe SnACk, LhaL ls how we serve our cllenLs. We have a SnACk serles. The S ls llke SLLLC1.
So when you come here you have a loL of lnsurer, vleLnamese offshore, onshore. ?ou never know
1here are many Lhlngs you don'L know abouL Lhe lnsurers and especlally vleLnam regulaLed lnsurer.
Youre sopetvlsloq ln Lurope you cannoL lncrease prlce lndlvldually, vleLnamese lnsurers Lhey can. 1hey
make by petsooolly looJloq. So selecL Lhe rlghL lnsurance dependlng of your needs flrsL of all, flrsL...
1hen years afLer years we will renew your needs wlll probably change. Maybe you wlll geL marrled,
maybe you wlll geL older, maybe we have some new producLs here. So we wlll also selecL lf Lhere ls
someLhlng beLLer. When you're geLLlng reLlred you don'L have Lhe same budgeL, as lf you are worklng.
?ou wlll probably need someLhlng wlLh more Jetectlvel, or someLhlng llke LhaL.

v: new on Lhe markeL as well. So we can lnLroduce somebodys best.

C: So how we do LhaL: We have a pool of, lets say, Lhree, four, flve lnsurers LhaL we wlll puL on a
comparaLlve code and we wlll explaln whlch one Lhe cllenL should choose and why. We cannoL say LhaL
one lnsurer ls beLLer Lhan anoLher one. lf you ask me Loday: Who ls Lhe besL lnsurer? l cannoL answer lL.
8ecause lL wlll depend of your needs. Some lnsurers are beLLer for famllles, some are beLLer for
lndlvldual, some are good for younger, some are good for older people. Lhm... 1han we have whaL we
call nLCC1lA1L. 1hls ls Lhe second parL of our serles. negoLlaLe can be as well on Lhe prlce. Cf course we
dont our prlces are Lhe same as the insurer. We cannot we don'L have, Lhe lnsurer Lhey pay us
lnLroducLlon commlsslon. We cannoL dlscounL on Lhem lf Lhey don'L allow Lo glve dlscounL, Lhe only way
Lo do LhaL ls lf you're ln a group or famlly dlscounL. negoLlaLe can be negoLlaLe also, you can have
exclude, you know, someLhlng llke LhaL, for example you have Lhe pre-exlsLlng-deal. 1haL can be
someLhlng LhaL Lhe lnsurer don'L wanL Lo cover. 8uL lf lL's someLhlng LhaL we see LhaL lL's don'L really,
llke you geL an operaLlon on your arm, 30 years ago. ?ou can say, hey, come on afLer 30 years you never
need anyLhlng Lo flx your arm agaln. 1hey can cover. 1he rlsk ls almosL zero. 1haL's called Lhe
negoLlaLlng.

v: 8ecause of our porLfollo. LlLher you are an lndlvldual and you don'L work wlLh us Lhen you are alone
Lo negoLlaLe wlLh Lhe lnsurer. Cr if you work with us, we can say we can ask Lhe lnsurer Lo make
excepLlon for example. 8ecause oLherwlse we can say: Ckay, you are noL a really good lnsurer because
you are noL dolng LhaL and Lhe oLher can, how does lL come. And Lhen we can Lell our 1000 someLhlng
cllenLs won'L go wlLh you. We have more power from negoLlaLlon wlLh Lhem.

8: ?ou also have Lravel lnsurance, rlghL?

v: ?es.

8ebecca Mayer
kk
8: ls Lhls a blg parL of ll-consulLlng? Cr a smaller parL?

v: 1ravel, lL belongs Lo Lhe, how do you say, Lo Lhe personal llfe. So lL's a smaller parL, rlghL now. lL's llke
our maln cllenLs Lhey are medlcal and Lhen lf Lhey need anyLhlng, because Lhey are Lravelllng around
Lhey would ask us for a Lravel. But its really a small.

8: 8uL also Lhe expaLs Lhey are asklng you for Lhe Lravel lnsurance? noL people from ouLslde comlng Lo
vleLnam for Lravelllng ln vleLnam?

C: no.

v: Well depends, Lhey can do LhaL as well, buL lL's rare, because usually Lhe Lravel lnsurance you Lake lL
before you come here. So, does few lnsurers can excepL, buL ln llke one week Llme, you need Lo wrlLe,
you need Lo purchase one Lravel lnsurance dolng Lhls.

C: LeL's say, nowadays ln Lurope, you buy your fllghL LlckeLs or someLhlng llke LhaL, or you Lravel package
on Lhe lnLerneL. 1here ls always LhaL opLlon, LhaL lL sLlck ready for you, do you wanL Lravel lnsurance.
LeL's say more and more people do have already LhaL. Cnce Lhey come here and Lhey already here lL's
usually qulLe hard Lo flnd a producL for Lhem.

v: ?ou have one, buL only wlLhln flrsL week, oLherwlse you can'L purchase lL anymore.

8: Ckay.

C: usually Lravel lnsurance needs Lo be Laken before, so...

v: 1he reason ls LhaL you can'L Lake Lhe Lravel lnsurance Lo make lL llke medlcal lnsurance. lL's noL Lhe
same Lhlng.

C: That is actually I think thats good Lo know. 1here ls a loL noLhlng agalnsL AusLrallans or someLhlng
llke LhaL, buL usually uslng a Lravel lnsurance as a medlcal lnsurance Lo save money. Lhm... We see a loL
of expaLs dolng LhaL. 8uL Lravel lnsurance, unless you have prlvaLe conflrmaLlon from your lnsurer, buL
you may noL, and Lhen lf you renew lL, LhaL's flne, as long as you have fllghL back Lo AusLralla and you
can proof LhaL Lo Lhe lnsurer. 8ecause Lhe day you are on Lhe road and you have moLorblke accldenL.
1hey wlll use LhaL, LhaL reason, lf you don'L have Lhe proof LhaL you have been ln AusLralla back ln Lhe
mlddle for example. 1hey have Lhe very good reason they donL pay your evacuaLlon and noL Lo pay your
LreaLmenL. So LhaL's someLhlng. So we do Lravel lnsurance, buL lL's a small serles.

8: l see.

C: 1hen parL of our snack: We have Lhe AuMlnlS18A1lCn. We call: AdmlnlsLraLe. So, you know Lhe
hassle paperwork, you have for runnlng lnsurance. ?ou have Lo flll LhaL. And Lhen every year you have be
8ebecca Mayer
LL
sure you don'L mlss Lhe renewal daLe and Lhen you have Lo send LhaL Lo Lhe lnsurer. We make lL easler
for Lhe cllenL. ?ou come here, you slL wlLh us, you flll lL, we do all Lhe paperwork. ?ou say whaL ls okay,
whaL ls noL okay. AL Lhe end you geL [usL okay your premlum, you're lnsured under Lhls condlLlon. 1he
premlum ls Lhls. Are you okay wlLh Lhls? 1haL's lL. ?ou have noLhlng Lo do. And Lhen agaln, well send all
LhaL, we make sure Lhey recelve Lhe premlum. Cnce we have Lhe card, we call Lhe cllenL: ?ou wanL Lo
come Lo plck up your card? AdmlnlsLraLe ls parL of lndlvldual ls lnLeresLlng, buL moreover for groups,
because whaL ls lnsurance for companles. We do LhaL. And LhaL's loL of, loL of Llme Lo do LhaL. Lhm... l
mean, recelvlng Lhe appllcaLlon, make sure LhaL theyre okay and all LhaL, buL mosL of Lhe companles
Lhey have someLhlng else Lo do. So LhaL ls someLhlng whaL ls qulLe valuable of course for lndlvldual, buL
even more for companles.

8: Can you provlde wlLh a number: Pow many companles are uslng your consulLlng?

C: Ah, approxlmaLely rlghL now...

8: Pow many people are lnsured over Lhelr employer?

v: 1haL's very lmporLanL, acLually.

C: 1haL's hard Lo say.

v: 8ecause we have schools and we have as well prlvaLe companles... l can'L say exacLly...

C: l would say LhaL around 30 of our cllenLs are companles. robably. Cf course we focus on examlne,
we don'L wanL Lo have blg companles, large cooperaLes, for a slmple reason, LhaL for larger cooperaLlon
all Lhe declslons are made from Lhe head quarLer or ckk offlce. So mosL llkely cooperaLes ln Slngapore
or Lhe uS or anywhere. We used Lo have many blg companles, when Lhey sLarLed here, buL as soon as
Lhey grow and lets say for example coca-cola, we had Lhem, buL Lhen Lhe uS headquarLer Lhey sald
okay, for everybody lL would be LhaL lnsurance. 1hen we have no room Lo negoLlaLe anyLhlng here. lL's
llke LhaL, thats a cooperaLe declslon. Thats it. 1haL's why we don'L do Lhe large corporaLe.
8uL leL's say Lhere are some compeLlLors Lhey are uslng oofflcy.otq ot tbe wotJ, so lL's easler for Lhem.
We are noL LhaL player, we Lake every cllenL personally, we are noL a cllenL number. We know each
cllenL, [usL Lwo days ago we organlzed a blg parLy for our cllenLs for example. We go Lo meeL Lhem, we
know Lhem personally, LhaL's our sLrongesL... Where we are really sLrong ls, Lo know Lhe people and we
know Lhelr needs and we know speclflcally whaL's happenlng mosL of Lhe Llme ln Lhelr famlly, where are
Lhe confldenL. 1haL's someLhlng lmporLanL.
1hen CLAlM: Clalm ls a blg parL, especlally ofLen wlLh Lhe vleLnamese lnsurers.

v: Well we have a small deparLmenL would Lake care of Lhe vleLnamese clalm. 1hls ls... We do as well
clalm, buL usually whaL we Lell our cllenLs ls LhaL lf we have any problem and you don'L know whaL Lo do,
you can come and we wlll help you. 8uL normally we don'L have Lhe rlghL Lo ask you for Lhe medlcal
lnformaLlon. 1hls ls compleLely confldenLlal. 8uL ln any case we are here Lo Lell you, whaL you need Lo
8ebecca Mayer
MM
know, for example you can go Lo see your docLor. Well Lhe docLor would say: Pow long do you have LhaL
sympLom. ?ou don'L know, buL you Lhlnk LhaL you have Lhls llke Lhree or Len years ago. So lL can be
prevlous Lhlng, whaL Lhe lnsurer does noL cover and we would Lell you, well Lhls was Lhree years ago. 8uL
Lhe Lhlng ls, rlghL now, you have your elbow, your elbow ls lnsured, buL Lhree years ago lL was Lhls one
[Lhe oLher on]. noLhlng relaLed. And Lhe lnsurer can [usL base on Lhe medlcal reporL, whaL Lhe docLor
sald. ?ou had LhaL before.
So we are here Lo provlde Lhem Lhls klnd of lnformaLlon. And as well lf ln case as Lhe lnsurer or Lhe
cllnlc well someLlmes we lnLervene as well. lL can be cllnlc and lnsured problem, lL can be cllenL and
lnsured problem, lL can be as well cllenL and cllnlc problem. So we are here Lo help.

C: ?eah, Lhe clalm ls... 1he clalm are... [phone rlnglng]

v: lL can be Lo Lake back Lhe 10.000$ for evacuaLlon. 8ecause Lhe lnsurer dldn'L wanL Lo pay lL flrsL,
because Lhe cllenL organlzlng everyLhlng, because he was so afrald for hls son, so he organlzed
everyLhlng.
And lL can be Lhe llmlL, because Lhe cllnlc usually dependlng on whaL klnd of cllnlc you go, lL can be Loo
expenslve for Lhe area, so Lhe lnsurer say: no, no. We cover for no more Lhan tbe cbotqe. So we
negoLlaLe and we have Lhe ouLcome.

C: Well, someLlmes Lhe clalm are on an unfalr basls and ln LhaL momenL when we see lL's noL falr, Lhe
denlal of Lhe clalm, we wlll... we have a base of cllenLs wlLh whlch we are qulLe powerful. And Lhe
lnsurer Lhey know, LhaL lf we come, and lL's unfalr, mosL llkely Lhey would pay for Lhe slmple reason: lf
Lhey don'L pay someLhlng LhaL Lhey have denled unfalrly, okay whaL do we do: We send Lhem Lo Lhe
whole basls of our cllenLs, LhaL Lhey shouldn'L buy your lnsurance. We have more power, because we
have more cllenLs. 1haL's whaL, LhaL's very... l mean for Lhe cllenL, for an lndlvldual lf you Lry Lo flghL
agalnsL your lnsurance company. l could say: Cood luck. Lven ln wesLern counLrles lL's a hassle. 8uL ln
vleLnam lL's even more.
1hen Lhe cllnlc of course, when you go Lo Lhe cllnlc and Lhey deny, Lhe cllnlc ls also ln a poslLlon, LhaL's
really, really hard for Lhem. Cn one slde Lhey wanL Lo geL Lhe money for Lhe serles provlder. Cn Lhe
oLher slde Lhey don'L wanL Lo lose Lhe cllenL. 8ecause Lhey have Lo say Lo Lhe cllenL: now your clalm of
7000, 8000$ have been denled, so now you need Lo pay. AL LhaL momenL Lhe cllnlc Lhey call us, mosL of
Lhe Llme, and Lhey say: Can you help us. And Lhere ls Lhe cllenL, we wlll help Lhem, we wlll solve lL ouL,
LhaL everybody geL ouL of Lhe slLuaLlon ln a happy. So mosL of Lhe Llme of course Lhe lnsurer ls Lhe one
who ls mosL unhappy ln Lhls. 1hey [usL cash ouL some money. 8uL lL's, leL's say, lL's klnd of a game of
power beLween Lhe lnsurer, us and Lhe cllnlc. 8uL everybody Lrles Lo do Lhelr besL and aL Lhe end we
work LogeLher so everybody ls happy. 8ecause, of course, lf Lhe lnsurer doesn'L pay, Lhe cllenL flrsL of all,
Lhey are llvlng ln a world where lnformaLlon spreads qulLe fasL, leL's Lake facebook, Lake llnkedln, Lake all
soclal medla and Lhe expaL communlLy ln vleLnam ls very small. 1he expaL communlLy ln Po Chl Mlnh, ln
Panol ls a Jeloqe, everybody know each oLher. lnformaLlon goes very fasL. 1he lnsurer, Lhey don'L wanL
Lo lose Lhelr repuLaLlon. 1he cllnlc doesn'L wanL Lo lose Lhe cllenL, because of course you have Lhe
poslLlon whaL Lhe cllenL wlll say abouL Lhe cllnlc: 1he cllnlc Lhey wanL my money. 1hey charge me, Lhey
dldn'L blablabla... So Lhey are.
8ebecca Mayer
nn
So we are mosL of Lhe Llme we are ln Lhe mlddle, acLually. We are Lhe, how Lo say LhaL, Lhe referee,
Lhe referee ln a fooLball game. And we have Lo keep LhaL everybody sLays, how Lo say LhaL... lL doesn'L
go lnsane. 1haL's a blg parL of Lhe [ob also.

8: May l ask, dld you work ln Lhe lnsurance buslness ln Lurope before?

C: Sorry?

8: uld you work ln Lhe lnsurance buslness ln Lurope before?

C: no, no, no.

8: Ah, so lL's your flrsL Llme ln LhaL fleld?!

C: l dldn'L work ln lnsurance before, buL for Lwo years you learn qulLe a loL [laughs].
1hen: knCWLLuCL. We share our knowledge. As we say, we read flne prlnLs 363, 24 hours a day, 7 days
a week. So...

v: And because we are worklng for Lhe lnsurers, so we know whlch ls ln whlch fleld. And who can do
whaL and why Lhey can do lL. 1hls ls whaL Claudlo Lold you, LhaL few lnsurers ln vleLnam Lhey have Lhe
rlghL Lo lncrease your premlum nexL year. ?ou have A big fluctuation is here. For example we have
hosplLallzaLlon whlch cosLs llke 100 of your premlum, Lhey can lncrease your premlum nexL year. 1hls
ls experlence loadlng. And no lnLernaLlonal lnsurer can'L do LhaL. 8uL Lhen vleLnamese lnsurer...vleLnam
based lnsurer Lhey can. So Lhls klnd of lnformaLlon ls wrlLLen nowhere. 1hls can belong Lo Lhe
governmenL.

C: 1haL's why we share. We know Lhe lnsurers, we know Lhelr hablLs, we know Lhelr own psychology,
how Lhey work, we can advlse whlch ls Lhe besL lnsurer for a long Lerm expaLrlaLe. robably vleLnamese
lnsurer ls noL Lhe besL cholce for you, because you wlll be movlng Lo anoLher counLry, Lhen Lhe
vleLnamese lnsurer cannoL supporL you. Lhm...

v: lL wlll be compleLely dependlng on your needs. Pow ls your proflle.... 8eally. We can'L [usL say, okay
Lhls ls Lhe besL lnsurer, because lL's Lhe mosL expenslve one, because each one ls dlfferenL.

C: 8uL Lhen knowledge also Lhe flnes prlnLs. So you're noL used Lo read Lhe flne prlnLs, so you dont want
Lo read 20 pages of flne prlnLs for your medlcal lnsurance. 8uL we read lL. We know where are Lhe Lraps,
where are Lhe Lrlcks, where are holes. And all Lhls acLually... 1he lnsurer Lhey have Lhelr own language
also. And you don'L speak Lhe language of Lhe lnsurer. 1here are all Lhese llLLle words, for you Lhey
doesn'L mlnd, even you dont see the problem.
8uL, for example, a slmple Lerm as usual and cusLomer of course LhaL can be a blg mess. uLLlng LhaL
lnLo a flne prlnLs LhaL can mean all and noLhlng aL Lhe same Llme and Lhe lnsurer can hlde behlnd LhaL,
proLecL Lhemselves from pay. So LhaL's someLhlng when you're lndlvldual, lL's very hard acLually Lo
8ebecca Mayer
CC
understand fine prints, its written by lawyers, by advocaLes, Lhey have a medlcal e-book, dolng LhaL
wlLh xyxyx.
lL's very well packed for Lhe lnsurer Lo be as safe as posslble, Lo dont have to pay these clalms.

8: lor me lL would be very lnLeresLlng Lo know whaL proflles Lhe expaLs you lnsure have? Llke ln whlch
age group are Lhey, whlch [obs do Lhey mosLly have, because ln my survey l found ouL LhaL some mlghL
be lnsured and some mlghL be noL, so... Are Lhere dlfferenL Lypes of expaLs whlch are lnsurlng over lf-
consulLlng, LhaL would be lnLeresLlng for me Lo know.

v: Well, whaL klnd of expaL Lhen. Lh... WhaL do you Lhlnk, Claudlo? 8ecause, whaL we have rlghL now ls
Lhe flow of expaLs rlghL now ls young, Lhey are really young, Lhey need lnsures LhaL for Lhe baslc cover.
And because Lhey are young, so Lhey are movlng around, Lhey can sLay here for Lwo years and Lhen Lhey
are movlng Lo 1halland or Cambodla or lndla. So this isthls can be, llke...

C: LeL's say LhaL before ln vleLnam Lhere were a loL of expaL packages, where you have Lhe houslng, Lhe
school and LhaL. Lh... WlLh economy downLurn, Lhe world would have or ln Lhe pasL flve, slx, seven
years, especlally ln vleLnam, vleLnam ls counLry where you produce a loL Lo exporL, for locompooles,
Lhere we can see LhaL Lhere ls less and less of LhaL expaL package and so Lhe people have Lo buy by
Lhemselves Lhe lnsurance, so before lL was a Lop lnsurance wlLh all everyLhlng lncluded, Lhe maLernlLy,
Lhe denLal, Lhe opLlcs, all. And so Lheres people someLlmes Lhe companles say: Ckay, we don'L pay
anymore LhaL lnsurance and Lhey come Lo see you and Lhey ask: Pey, we wanL Lo renew lL. And you say
Lhe prlce and Lhen: 8eally LhaL's Lhe prlce of my lnsurance. Lhm... So, Lhere ls a, leL's say, Lhere ls a...
more and more people, LhaL Lhey Lry Lo cosL conLrol Lhe premlum of Lhelr lnsurance. So havlng Lhe
maLernlLy do you really need lL when you're over 40. Maybe noL. ?ou never go Lo Lhe docLor, buL you
have Lhe ouLpaLlenL LreaLmenL. 1haL almosL doubles every Llme your premlum. And Lhen of course you
have forelgn paLlenLs, you can Jetectlvo, mote ooJ mote ptoJoct tbelt potpose Jetectlvo, because Lhe
prlce of medlcal lnsurance are really golng up, golng up, year afLer year, beLween 8 and 12 medlcal
lnflaLlon.Lach year. So, people use more and more LhaL Jetectlvo, of course. And Lhen you have some
lnsurers LhaL are developed [usL for SouLh-LasL-Asla. 8ecause of course when you are ln SouLh-LasL-Asla
you don'L need a slmple and Lhe cosL of Lhe LreaLmenL, llke ln 1halland are much cheaper Lhan ln
Lurope, buL Lhe quallLy ls almosL Lhe same. So lf you agree Lo go Lo 1halland, lnsLead of Slngapore, whlch
ls mosL of Lhe Llme Lhe people are ttyloq xyyx. lor example 8umrungrad looks llke a flve-sLar-sheraLon-
hoLel. lL's noL a problem. And Lhe medlcal, Lhe docLors are really good. So whaL happens, people choose
more and more Lhe SouLh-LasL-Asla package. 1hen of course, we have some hlgh-end people, worklng
for blg companles, or noL even blg companles, buL who are Lhe CooJ-uolce ptoJoct and Lhen we sell of
course, Lhls hlgh-end lnsurances, buL Lhe Lendency ls Lo lower Lhe premlum and people are really looklng
more and more afLer Lhe prlce.
1here ls a survey LhaL say ln Asla 26 of Lhe people Lhey Lhlnk Lhey don'L have Lhe rlghL lnsurance for
Lhemselves. So one people ouL of four who have an lnsurance Lhey are noL sure, ls LhaL flne. Maybe l can
geL someLhlng cheaper, someLhlng beLLer, LhaL's where our servlces are really someLhlng valuable for
them, because its totally free of course.

8ebecca Mayer

8: And do you have a speclflc LargeL group, llke people you wanL Lo reach, you address ln a speclflc way?
Cr ls lL [usL very general, llke expaLs here or do you have Lhe feellng you can reach a cerLaln group
beLLer Lhrough your servlce?

C: Sorry, can you..?

v: A cerLaln group? 8ecause normally all of Lhem can be our cllenL. 1he Lhlng ls how you reach Lhem.
This is like a how we do our marketing most of the time. We used to work llke from word Lo mouLh
and afLer LhaL we sLarLed Lhe how to you call that Lhe conLenL of Lhe markeLlng.

C: We have a so, ja

v: And Lhen Lhe emalllng of course. 1he emalllng we can geL lL from xyxyx groups, nelghbor, ask
nelghbor, mosL of Lhem are expaLs. Well, l Lhlnk all klnd of expat can be our clients, so we dont have a
speclflc LargeL group.

8: So, l can lmaglne llke for example cllenLs from Lurope you can address very easlly because you speak
lrench. MlghL LhaL be a LargeL group?

V: It helps. It helps. Because, Im in charge of the French clients here. Anyway, well, its easier for them.
8ecause usually French people they dont llke speaklng Lngllsh. 1hey can feel more comforLable lf Lhey
can speak lrench wlLh somebody. 8ecause lnsurance ls qulLe compllcaLed, so lf we are speaklng anoLher
language, well

C: 1haLs something you feel of course somehow more comforLable Lalklng ln your moLher Longue
abouL someLhlng llke lnsurance, because you wanL Lo feel safe, slcket LhaL someLhlng happens. ?ou are
really xyxyx. And you feel very comforLable Lo have a number where you can call and you can speak Lhe
language LhaL you wanL. Cf course we can do LhaL for lrench, l speak llnlsh, l can do LhaL for llnlsh, a
llLLle blL Spanlsh and all LhaL, buL mosL of Llme we do LhaL ln English. Mmmm Concerning marketing:
We have probably one Lhlrd of Lhe people Loday Lhey come from referral of happy cllenL, we have one
Lhlrd LhaL comes from cllnlcs, so Lhe cllnlcs Lhey know our professlonal, so Lhey send us people, because
Lhey know LhaL we wlll advlse a good lnsurance for Lhem. ?ou know, when you are aL a hosplLal you
dont want your client to come to ask you if you have an insurance, you dont want just purchase an
lnsurance, because if its not good for him Ah thats somewhere like. ?ou know, you wanL LhaL hlm
to come back to your hospital to get treatment, you cant purchase anybody that insurance and then
next time he comes to your hospital and says, I dont know, but youre insurance does not cover Lhls,
they dont want that. And Lhen we have one Lhlrd LhaL come from markeLlng, llke LhaL can be
neLworklng, llke face-Lo-face-meeLlng wlLh people around Lhe clLy and Lhen lL can be lnLerneL-markeLlng.
Were trying to do more and more that internet-markeLlng. Well, its a Lendency for people Lo buy
lnsurance on Lhe lnLerneL. eople are moblle. eople are lnLernaLlonal, people are movlng all Lhe Llme.
1hey need Lo have, Lo feel safe Lo have somewhere on Lhe lnLerneL, you know, Lo check fasL, Lhls, Lhls,
Lhls. 1haL for example we have a skype accounL, where Len of our consulLanLs are ready Lo answer LhaL.
8ebecca Mayer
CC
Any cllenL or lnsured member, Lhey ask us someLhlng, we advise them to go on insurance on skype
lnsurance quesLlon, Lo ask LhaL. 8ecause mosL llkely, we have Len consulLanLs, Lhere wlll be somebody
connecLed or ready Lo answer. So we Lry Lo work all LogeLher, work on lnformaLlon. Youll have a
question, we will work together, we dont just work by ourselves. Most likely our LargeL ls Lo be xyxyx.
\yxyx. 1o your quesLlon.

8: So, you already qulckly menLloned, buL maybe you can go a llLLle blL deeper lnslde. 1he klnd of
insurance youre selling very often, what kind of medical insurance is it? What does it cover? Like one
very popular one.

C: Thats hard. We can draw you how actually the lnsurance work. l would say, hard...

v: l can wrlLe you llke Lhree klnd of lnsurer. So... Well...

C: 1he flrsL and cheapesL level ls emergency cover, whlch wlll be lnpaLlenL wlLh evacuaLlon, vleLnam
also... Lets say: There ls of course every hosplLal whlch has lnpaLlenL.

v: So Lhls ls Lhe plan. oo oeeJ to bove \yxxy raLher Lhan Lheklnd of lnsurer. WhaL l mean ls you have all
of Lhem, of course we have 8aovleL, 8aoMlnh, Lhose are vleLnamese lnsurers, so Lhey we would noL
suggesL Lhem Lo forelgner, slmply because ln Lhelr LermlnenL condlLlon Lhey say, we have Lhe rlghL Lo
cancel Lhe pollcy wlLhln 30 days of ootlces. 1hls ls noL good aL all. And Lhen you have Lhe second level of
lnsurer whlch are Lhose, because Lhey are based here lnvleLnam, so Lhey can use Lhe experlence
loadlng, whaL Lhe oLher lnsurer would noL do.
What we would call the offshore, like those, Im not naming them, but you know. And then regarding
Lhe plan, we have llke, Lhree level of cover. 1he flrsL one, whaL ls Lhe baslc one, whlch would cover Lhe
hosplLallzaLlon and evacuaLlon. 1hls ls whaL Claudlo was menLlonlng, Lhls ls Lhe flsL Lhlng LhaL you need,
because lf anyLhlng happens, lL can be really, really expenslve. And Lhen Lhe second level would be, whaL
we call Lhe ouLpaLlenL vlslL, vlslL Lo Lhe C, speclallsL, medlclne. [wrlLes down]. 1hls normally, l Lhlnk
famlly wlLh chlldren Lhey would choose Lhls one, because Lhe klds Lhey are slck mosL of Lhe Llme and
Lhen Lhe Lhlrd level you have Lhe maLernlLy, denLal and opLlcal.

8: So LhaL would be... 1he flrsL level LhaL would be Lhe lnsurance for an young lndlvldual Lo come here?

v: Well, lL depends. 8ecause we... lL depends really on Lhelr klnd of llfesLyle, for example us, we would
be here [polnLlng on Lhe flrsL level]. 8ecause we would not go to the doctor. Simply because I dont have
Llme. lf l have someLhlng l would go Lo buy medlclne, llke, l only have flu or symtom. So I dont want to...
So we would see whaL klnd of llfesLyle Lhey have. lf Lhey go Lo see Lhe C ofLen, lf Lhey go Lo see a
speclallsL ofLen. And we can caluculaLe based on Lhe premlum and Lhe dlfferences beLween Lhls
[polnLlng on Lhe flrsL and second level] and we can see: ?ou need Lo Lake Lhls one and Lhls one [polLlng
on Lhe Lhlrd level] ls really speclflc. lf you need lL you can ask us and we can say, you need Lo be here Lo
Lake Lhls.

8ebecca Mayer
88
8: l see. 8uL whaL ls llke Lhe feellng, whaL klnd of llfesLyle do mosL expaLs, maybe excepL famllles, Lhe
lndlvldual... An lndlvldual comes Lo you: uo Lhey mosLly say llke, do Lhey mosLly have Lhe llfesLyle [usL for
emergency case Lhey need Lhe lnsurance. Cr ls lL really so dlfferenL?

v: So dlfferenL.

C: l would say we probably have 30-60 of Lhe cllenL here [polnLlng on Lhe flrsL level] and 30-40
here [polnLlng on second level].

v: 8ecause Lhe Lendency ls here [polnLlng on flrsL level], because of Lhe cosL savlng. Lhm...

C: 1he Lhlng ls LhaL vleLnam ls noL a counLry were Lhere ls a loL of rlch expaLs. 1he Lendency ls really Lo
be here, ln Lhe mlnlmum cover. Lhm... noL necessarlly cheaper, cheapesL, buL you know from here Lo
here you double Lhe prlce, from Lhe flrsL Lo Lhe second level.

v: So, you really need Lo ask Lhem, Lhls ls such [polnLlng on flrsL level] and Lhls ls double [polnLlng on
second level], so do you really Lhlnk you need Lo go and see your docLor ofLen because you can elLher
pay ouL of your pockeL or... 1hey declded really qulckly, because Lhey can see whaL Lhey have.

8: Ckay.

C: MosL of Lhe Llme here [polnLlng on second level] lLs famllles. lL Lends Lo be famllles who have LhaL.

V: Just, individual as well, but because they, I think, they dont... llrsL Lhlng ls LhaL they didnL reallse LhaL
they dont go, they dont really need that. So they will take this [pointing on the second level] for the
flrsL year and Lhen Lhey would decrease lL. normally. LxcepL lf Lhey have famlly.

8: And mosL of Lhe expaLs are geLLlng Lhe lnsurance when Lhey ln vleLnam or do Lhey geL lL before Lhey
come Lo vleLam?

C: We are focussing only on the people who come here and dont have it.

8: Who are here already?

C: !a.

8: l see.

C: Because if they do it before... ehm Most likely its a xyxyx. lrom Llme Lo Llme we have some people
who ask before comlng here. 8uL Lhe people Lhey usually Lhey come Lo a counLry or Lhe people who
have really think about it, they have the big, expensive insurance already before. They dont think
abouL... lf Lhey really Lhlnk abouL LhaL, I think, they already pay a lot and ehm They ask around,
8ebecca Mayer
SS
anoLher frlend or someLhlng llke LhaL. CLherwlse its the company Lhey wlll do, oLherwlse Lhey would
check Lhe lnsurer LhaL Lhe know. 1he Amerlcans Lhey know some they check on lnLerneL, Lhey wlll flnd
some Amerlcan lnsurer and Lhey wlll come wlLh lets say AxA or unlCns plan or someLhlng llke LhaL.

v: So usually Lhey are already here. Cur cllenLs are already here. LlLher Lhey already, Lhey are already
insured on a So lf Lhey are already lnsured, Lhey know LhaL we can advlse Lhem for a beLLer, cheaper or
depends on whaL klnds of need Lhey have, so

R: I dont know if you can provide me with numbers, but how much is like the first level insurance a year,
roughly?

v: Well, lL depends on... We are Lalklng abouL expaLrlaLes, so around 27 years old, Lhe flrsL level can vary
from Lwo lets say 350$ up to 1000$, depends on insurer of course. The second one is double, so you can
[usL double. 1hls one ls more expenslve [polnLlng on Lhe Lhlrd level].

8: So, thats Lhe prlce a year, rlghL?

V: Yes, its the price a year.

R: Okay, but you dont have any numbers, like how much your clients spend like average for health
lnsurance a year.

C: no. SomeLhlng wlLh xyxy, approximately

v: l Lhlnk 700$.

8: MlghL be a rough average?

v: ?es. 700,800

C: Its quite hard, because you cannot say, that We could calculate it, if you want, but we have I have
no number rlghL now. We have Lo Lake Lhe flrsL declles, Lhe lasL declles off, so we have Lo concenLraLe
on Lhe 80 expaLs and Lake Lhe medlum of, of course. But, thats a good question.

R: I am just asking, because thats also one part of my of my study, a little bit, to find that out. The
onllne survey ls noL a represenLaLlve number of people, who dld Lhe onllne survey. l asked Lhem also,
how much they think they spend a month, so I could calculate a year, so I can compare and see if its
like

C: l could roughly Lell you. WalL, leL me Lake a calculaLor.

8ebecca Mayer
11
v: ?eah, as you can see for Lhe flrsL level.
l Lhlnk l replled Lo your survey buL when l cllcked on send, lL Lurned black. So I couldnt

8: ardon?

v: l answered your survey.

C: l would say LhaL Lhe average premlum musL be someLhlng llke 1300$. er person, per year.

8: Ckay.

v: So Lhls xyxy. So they are all

C: All of them. But I cannot say For each level, I cannot say.

v: 8ecause really, Lhe cllenL can Lake Lhls one. 330$ only, because he ls really young, 26 years old. Cr lL
can be dad and daughLer, Lhey are Laklng Lhe hlgh-end one, 10.000$ per year. You know, so... if we just
like that, I dont know.

R: Yes, sure, alright. Ehm Maybe you also speak with your clients before, right? So, for me it would be
also lnLeresLlng Lo know, llke whaL concerns and worrles Lhe cllenLs share wlLh you, regardlng Lhelr
healLh, regardlng Lhelr wellbelng here? WhaL are llke common concerns Lhey brlng Lo you?

V: They usually say: Wow, the motorbike. I dont want to have any motorbike accident, so I want to be
lnsured aL leasL for Lhe hosplLal. 1hls ls Lhe baslc one.

C: ?ou have Lrled Lo cross Lhe road, you have Lrled Lhe moLorblke. Medlcal evacuaLlon Lo 1halland ls
beLween 3000$-35000$. They say I dont need

v: We wlll Lell Lhem LhaL: uld you Lry vleLnamese hosplLals? All of Lhem? Are you happy wlLh Lhem? And
they will say: Okay, dont like this hospital.
And we wlll say: 1hls ls Lhe besL hosplLal ln Po Chl Mlnh, so lf someLhlng happens you need aL leasL have
evacuaLlon Lo go Lo 1halland. And Lhen Lhey would say: Wow, okay.
So l Lhlnk Lhelr concern is that here we dont have so many good facility.

C: lL Lakes Llme usually. lor Lhe younger expaLrlaLes lL Lakes Llme Lo have one accldenL by moLorblke and
then they come. Most of the time they are likely, yeah I dont need, I am superman, they have one
accident, lucky most of the time they are lucky, they geL just

V: No, they dont have accident, they heard about their friend who had one. And then they say: Oh my
frlend [usL had Lhls accldenL. So...

8ebecca Mayer
uu
C: Some scarves and brulses someLlme, buL of course you have some people who are sLuck ln vleLnam.
1hey are ln Vietnamese hospital, because they dont have an insurance. The problem in Vietnam is like
braln surgery, nerve surgery. 1here ls no blood bank. ?ou see LhaL overLlme ln Lhe expaL communlLy:
Hey, we need blood for this, we need blood for that. Because in Vietnam they dont have Even FV
hospital You think FV hospital is the top of the top. But thats noL Lrue. Most Theyre good, but they
dont have brain surgeons, they dont have mlcro surgeons and all LhaL. When you have very small
bones to repair, I wont go over there. I better fly to Thailand or Singapore, where you have Lhe bulldlng
Lhey have Len floor of mlcro-surgeon.

8: So Lrafflc ls one of Lhe ma[or concerns?

v: 1rafflc for Lhose young and all Lhey need Lhe baslc. lor Lhose really Lhe faclllLy counLs. Cr Lhey wanL Lo
go Lo 1halland or Slngapore.

8: So Lhey wanL Lo have Lhe beLLer faclllLles?

v: ?eah.

R: They say: Here were afraid LhaL here Lhe faclllLles are noL good enough.

v: 1hey would be looklng around Lo see lf Lhey can flnd someLhlng, or lf Lhey have Lhls klnd of dlsease lf
Lhey are chlldren, Lhls klnd of dlsease, Lhey wlll see where Lhey can go Lo, Lhey go Lo 1halland. 1hey
would look around, even ln Lurope. So, l Lhlnk Lhls case would be Lhe faclllLy problem.

8: WhaL ls Lhelr concern abouL Lhe faclllLles? WhaL ls whaL Lhey are mlsslng ln Lhe faclllLles here?

V: Eh Usually Well lL depends. 1here are loLs of cases. lL would be an example Lhen. lor example a
hearL surgery. WenL even Lo see ln SwlLzerland, Lo see lf Lhere ls a good surgeon, even ln Slngapore. And
Lhen Lhey end up aL 8angkok hosplLal, because Lhey say, LhaL Lhere Lhey have Lhe besL surgeons.
Because the surgeons there he had seen so many cases, and he had so many operaLlons already
compared to Singapore and compared to Switzerland. So this is one case. Another case would be
well In any case they would look around. Cur cllenLs Lhey usually look around. 1hey would ask around,
ask frlends and everyLhlng. And Lhen Lhey wdo come and ask us as well. And

8: So you menLloned Lhe experlence of Lhe sLaff and Lhen Lhe knowledge, llke ln speclflc areas, llke Lhe
micro

C: ?eah, Lhe mlcro bones.

v: noL only. 8ecause our work ls Lo go, Lo meeL cllnlcs and Lo know exacLly whaL Lhey have, llke
specialists, what they are doing, what they are In which field they are good or not. And usually those
8ebecca Mayer
vv
clients, they would ask they can ask us where Lo go and see a denLlsL, noL Loo expenslve, because Lhey
dont have insurance. And we can tell them, because we know who is working and how much it will cost.

8: Ckay. 8uL Lhls are Lhe very speclflc... 1hls l very speclflc healLh care flelds, rlghL? l would be lnLeresLed
lf llke baslc healLh care. WhaL are Lhe concerns of Lhe expaLs Lhere? Llke noL lf Lhey have Lhe speclflc
difficult bone fracture or they need a heart surgery. But the basic health care. In like Do they have any
concerns lf Lhey come Lo you regardlng Lhelr baslc healLh care provlders here ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy?

V: What do you mean with the basic health care? You mean

R: They are just like getting sick, getting cough or getting flu or they having high fever

v: Ch Lhls. I dont think Lhey would care Loo much. 1hey would elLher go Lo lv, Columbla or CMl or
Victoria and they can see which is best and this is like, if its the basic visit we cant tell them because
every docLor ls dlfferenL. Maybe Lhey can LrusL Lhls one, but not this one. Everybody I can go to this
doctor. And I would advise Claudio And Claudlo wlll say: l would prefer my docLor. 8ecause l know hlm
for a long time. So

8: 8uL we are ln baslc healLh care, Lhere ls no concern LhaL you cannoL geL access here? 1haL you cannoL
flnd a good hosplLal or docLor here?

C: Its more like specific and complicated surgery. All the basic health care is fine. And I told you, its
better to go here, because the tropical disease, in Europe they dont know. They never seen a Lroplcal
dlsease. 1he docLor here Lhey know much beLLer Lhelr sympLom. 1hey worklng everyday ln LhaL scole, lL
can be malarla, lL can be dengue, lL can be all Lhls. In Europe its so rare

v: uengue fever?

C: ?eah. uengue fever or malarla. no for Lhe baslc healLh care ls okay, buL you know you cuL your arm,
you wanL lL Lo work afLer your accldenL. l wlll noL glve my flnger, lf l have Lhe nerve wlre cuL or
someLhlng llke LhaL, l wlll noL go Lo Lhe flrsL docLor here. l would fly somewhere and check LhaL. Cr l
would choose Lhe flrsL ald-surgery here, [usL close lL LhaL it does not bleed all the time. Then I go to you
cannot you dont have How to say you dont have the room for mistake. Especially Lhen LhaL comes
wlLh Lhe chlldren for example. ?our chlldren ls stlll btokeo. And he fell down and broke hls arm. ?ou
want him to have the best support. You dont want him to have any xyxy for Lhe resL of hls llfe. lor
sevenLy years you have Lo llve afLer LhaL. ?ou know LhaL Lhey are [usL scared and you know LhaL vleLnam
cannoL provlde Lo Lhem Lhe besL care for some speclflc condlLlon. Cf course Lhey wlll noL Lake Lhe kld
and fly Lo Slngapore for a flu. 1haL ls noL very common. SomeLlmes you can have LhaL also. ?ou sLarL Lo
have... you go for a flu and you need Lo go some blood check, they cannot find At the end you can I
have some people I have some friends who are insured, and they tried and tried and the doctor didnt
flnd. 1hey were Lhlnklng abouL an anglna. llnally he wenL back Lo lrance and Lhey found ouL LhaL lL was
a very bad bacteria that he had. But just they miss it for the blood test and all that, but it hasnt
8ebecca Mayer
WW
sometimes But most of the time you can get good health care in Vietnam for some basic. But once its
more compllcaLed beLLer Lo fly somewhere. And thats very normal. You have the building with ten floor
of I dont know cardiac surgery. ln Po Chl Mlnh you have Lhree. And on Lhe 10
Lh
floor you have 20
cardiac surgeons. Of course you will have better care with that. Thats most likely it is very normal. So

v: uoes lL answer your quesLlon?

8: ?es, yes. 1hank you. And do you have Lhe feellng, LhaL Lhe healLh care need of you cllenLs change
overtime? Like when they stay here for longer. Lets say they first arrive, they get the lnsurance here.
AfLer 3 years, afLer 10 years does Lhelr healLh care need, does Lhelr llfesLyle changes so Lhey need oLher
lnsurances?

C: Sure, it changes, but there its something, thats why it is quite important to choose the right
lnsurance because selecL ls very lmporLanL. 8ecause once you choose for example vleLnamese lnsurer
and you need change, buL ln LhaL Llme you have a moLorblke accldenL, you have a broken arm. When
you wlll go Lo see Lhe new docLor, sorry, Lhe new lnsurer , you have Lo flll LhaL medlcal form, you have a
broken arm xyxy. So its better to take a product that ls xyxy and can have many level of cover and wlll
not have apply for them. Because most of the people they would say, if they are xyxyx, l would [usL
shlfL Lo anoLher xysy. You cant. Its too late. You have the xyxyx cooJltloo. So, of course Lhere need wlll
change.

v: 8ecause Lhey wlll geL marrled, Lhey wlll have chlldren. 1hey wlll change work, anyLhlng can happen,
Lhey wlll change Lhe company, or Lhe resldence. LveryLhlng. So, yes theyusually our clients, when they
stay with us, they We can see them changing from this insurer to this insurer to this insurer. We can
depending on cases we can see, okay he changed because of this, he changed because of this. So, yes,
of course the situation will change. So, the insurance
8uL llke Claudlo sald, Lhe besL ls Lo have Lhe solld one lf you wlll sLay ln Asla for a long Llme you wlll Lake
a solld one and lf everyLhlng happen Lhls wlll keep you covered ln any case.

8: uo you have Lhe feellng, LhaL some of Lhe cllenLs, even lf Lhey have Lhe lnsurance here ln vleLnam and
evacuaLlon ln 1halland, LhaL for some LreaLmenLs Lhey go back Lo Lhelr counLry of orlgln? Can you follow
LhaL up or can you see LhaL?

v: Well, ls noL exacLly LhaL we follow lL. lor example, one of our cllenLs choose Lhe baslcal one, Lhls one.
Im not sure if I am answering the question but yes they there are expats who are deciding to go back
to their home country country of origin to have treatment there. This woman has cancer and of course
the insurer covers it, but the thing is: She went to FV, the best here in Ho Chi Minh and the hospital
sald: Ckay, you need Lo cuL everyLhlng, because you have breasL cancer. LveryLhlng. 1hen she was so
afrald, LhaL she wenL back Lo lrance Lo geL LreaLmenLs, noL pald by Lhe lnsurer because she goL back Lhe
soclal securlLy and Lhen Lhey [usL goL llke Lwo cuL, so she ls sLlll well.
Well Lhls ls Lhe dlfferences. 8ecause normally Lhey would go back Lo Lhelr home counLry, because Lhey
Lhlnk Lhe LreaLmenL ls way beLLer.
8ebecca Mayer
xx
There is

8: lor very severe cases?!

v: ?es.

C: Of course its more comfortable to be in your home country, for example for xyxyx, lf you have breasL
cancer. Its easier being in your home country than being abroad, especlally for expaLrlaLes here who
dont really have family here. They are here alone. So the cancer . \yxy fly back Lo Lhelr home counLry
and recelve proper LreaLmenL over Lhere. 1haL happenlng ln a loL of counLrles. lor example for lrench
its very easy, or for Lurope ln general l would say. ?ou go back Lo your home counLry, Lhe governmenLal
security social system will accept you and take you back, they cant say no. If you go to the US, you have
Lo apply for a new lnsurance, or Lhey are changlng now wlLh Lhelr new governmenL, buL you have Lo
apply for an insurance, so some people they dont have really the choice. Thats depending And then
some people, they dont necessarily want to go back to their home country, because their treatment in
Lhelr home counLry ls even worse Lhan ln vleLnam. 1haL happens someLlmes.

v: 1hls ls why Lhe plans, we have Lhe evacuaLlon cover or you can choose Lhe pre-evacuLlon cover, Lo
back to your home country. So, there are plans for everything

8: Ckay. And Lhls, because you menLlon lL: l wanL Lo ask regardlng psychologlcal help. uo you have Lhe
feeling that there is a need at all? Do you have the feeling, that Vietnam has psychological providers
for expaLs? ls lL any Loplc aL all?

C: For the moment its quite, say there ls no psychologlcal healLh care ln vleLnam, mosL llkely.

V: We have specialists we call them psychologists.

C: But probably in another country for treatment

V: We have so many clients, we need that kind of But few of Lhem are asklng of course. Always.

C: In Vietnam we dont really have anything. No health care center for that, so

V: Its a specialist. You go for a visit and you are Lalklng wlLh Lhe psychologlsL.

C: Yeah, its more ouLpatient treatment. So, its a day patient you just go to see your psychologlsL. \yxyx,
thats it. But if you need it to be in a hospital, they can be taken care of you.

V: So, were talking about the inpatient or the outpatient. Outpatient is just the visit, inpatient is if
youre admitted. Is that what you ask? 1he admlLLed?

8ebecca Mayer
??
R: No, just very in general, because thats maybe a field, a also very difficult field, which like if its not
your language, even many, many Europeans, they cant speak their mother language with their health
care provlder, rlghL? Lspeclally with psychological help its quite difficult. And, Im not sure Thats
actually why Im asking, how much this field is already established in Vietnam and if

V: So, Im not working in a hospital, so I dont know exactly. But I have one friend: She is lrench
speaklng, Lngllsh speaklng and vleLnamese speaklng. She ls psychologlsL. So she Lold me LhaL she has
Lhree klnd of naLlonallLles. noL only Lhree buL speaklng languages.

8: So she has paLlenLs wbo xyxy. aLlenLs wlll go Lo her?
v: ?es.

8: AlrlghL.

C: But thats once again outpatient. You cannot go, stay in a like in Western Countries you have proper
treatment centers

V: Ehm But this is serious. The cases I think. We havent seen this kind of cases before.

C: no, no.

v: AL leasL ln our experience, we didnt have any kind of expat here

R: Okay, maybe Im asking. Another field is the rehabilitation field. How like is there rehabilitation
cllnlcs ln Po Chl Mlnh ClLy or ln vleLnam ln general? Cr do you also send your paLlenLs Lo 1halland or go
Lhey back Lo Lhelr counLry of orlgln Lo geL rehablllLaLlon?

V: Oh, thats a good question, because usually we have to rehabilitation is post-hosplLallzaLlon. ls LhaL?

8: ?es, rlghL. AfLer Lhe surgery and you need Lo flnd back, Lo use your arm agaln or whaLever Lry Lo use lL
again and slowly get used to your daily life again with the surgery you had or

v: ln my experlence Lhere ls only Lhe vlslL Lo Lhe C or Lhe speclallsL afLer Lhe hosplLallzaLlon, buL noL a
center not exactly the center. Or it can be Lhe resorL. 8uL lL usually would be ouLslde of vleLnam. Pow
about that, but not in Vietnam. We can check rehabilitation center I dont think

R: In Germany its common after you had a surgery or you had for example back problem and you need
Lo geL some treatment, and you have the artificial knee or the artificial hip or whatever And then you
need to get used to handle your life, right? And so you

C: So youre talking about medical prosthesis, right?

8ebecca Mayer
ZZ
R: Yes, that would be one form. But its also if you [usL have llke back problem and Lhen you geL some
treatment and then you slowly need to learn how to what is healthy for you and how you need to live
wlLh LhaL. So you go for abouL one week or Lwo weeks or Lhree weeks Lo a rehablllLaLlon cllnlc or lL can
be on a dally basls, you go Lhere every day agaln or you sLay Lhere overnlghL. So Lhere are Lwo dlfferenL
forms.

C: l would say Lhe doctor, xyxyx, or something like that job

v: So Lhls ls Lhe vlslL.

C: 8uL LhaL you really have I dont think so

V: We didnt see it. We can ask, maybe there is a room for that.

C: No, normally the problem in Vietnam is, that health care is so basic, they even have a do you know
Lhe chlldren hosplLal, nexL Lo 1rlnh 1reng 1rong. ?ou have LhaL chlldren hosplLal where you see people
go Lhere. So rehablllLaLlon cenLer ls noL Lhe prlorlLy ln LhaL Lown. Cf course. l never heard abouL LhaL.
The alcoholism for example, were talking about, that the alcoholismthere is nothing for thatThats
sure. 1he drugs nelLher.

v: Its not covered through insurance. Its not covered by an insurance. Its not covered by the insurance
anyway.

8: AlrlghL.

V: Okay, but what we can say is that, it takes this insurance plan, but here in Vietnam we didnt have in
here xyx.

C: its like home nursing. You have that in your plan, but it doesnt exist. Its not like in Western
Countries where somebody comes home and takes care. I dont know. You know most of the time when
youre in Vietnamese hospital, you have to cover the food, you have Lo pay more or less Lhe docLor Lo do
Lhelr work, before Lhey would come Lo your home Lo Lake care of you. \yxyx.

8: Ckay, Lhls are my quesLlons. 8uL lf you have anyLhlng Lo add, whlch l should puL lnLo Lhe reporL or lnLo
Lhe LranscrlpL. ?ou want to say anything

8ebecca Mayer
AAA
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