Why Are Some Great NLPers Still Over Weight

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Discussion: Why Are Some Great NLPers Still Over Weight?
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Seb joined:
Total posts:

May 2010
36

I was also curious to see individual responses to this thread also.
It is interesting to see the different values accommodated within
each person.

Before I started studying NLP I was studying people like Jim
Rohn, Tony Robbins, Brian Tracy, Robbin Sharma est. who all
promoted to raising your standards in all areas. So prior to
studying NLP I was blasted with leadership mentality and "raising
your standards". This is probably why I assume that great
NLPers would have easily covered weight loss if it was an issue
to them. I assume now not all great NLPers have this mentality.
Not to say that they are not any kind of leader though.

Sebastian
Seb Wallace

Posted: 13th Jul 10, 01:26 pm
Quote this post in your reply
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James joined:
Total posts:

Jul 2010
61

I think you would be best to ask a great nlper why he/she does
not value health/fitness/appearance because you might lean
more about the physical body and how that reflects psychology,
or there abouts. We all know that appearance is one of the first
things people judge upon meeting and perhaps there are many
people who have to rely on that appearance to pass judgement
and perhaps there are other people who pass judgement
differently.

I am wondering how psychology equates to weight and how you
are determining fitness by appearances.
I am sure most great nlpers are fit enough to perform on a stage
and to choose their personal state and appearance to achieve the
goals of the training in so reaching their set standards because is
that not what they do? Be it a trainer or practictioner, great or
just plump?

I don't think health and weight are the same for each person.
Many people my height would be a lot less healthy with my
weight because I am not built like a porker and some people are
naturally built with a bit more flab and natural means healthy
because some people are built for warmer climates and some
people survive easier in colder weather.

If your physical body is a reflections of your psychology then
does it not follow that your psychology is also a reflection of your
physical body and if your psychology is that of a great nlper,
does it not then follow that your physical body is well ballanced?

Your question may have been risky but not rude compared to a
question unanswered.

I am sure there are great nlpers who can be over weight one
week and a lot slimmer the next because simply altering a state
of mind can directly afect metabolism, digestion and weight. I
am also sure a great nlper could look more pretty if they wanted
to but I don't see how that makes them more skilled in changing
people's psychology.
Chris joined:
Total posts:

Aug 2005
2,428

Chris Morris

Posted: 14th Jul 10, 10:48 am
It tickles me when NLP trainers admit they could be healthier (if
they wanted to be) but they choose not to be, and therefore we
shouldn't impose our values on them...

Everyone has the right to set their own priorities and live the
way they choose (assuming they don't harm others), but come
on... let's not be deluded.

Being unhealthy isn't a choice; it's hundreds of choices every
day. We choose what we eat, what we drink, how we move,
every moment. And people who consistently choose to consume
more calories than they use are consistently making decisions
that lead them in an unhealthy direction. There are lots of
reasons for it, lots of factors to consider. And ultimately it's all
about the decisions you make and the habits you slip into.

By the way, let's not create any straw man arguments here. It
doesn't matter to me if you have a perfectly sculpted body and I
don't care if you're carrying a few extra pounds either. I'm
talking about overall health and energy levels, not aesthetics. I
know a lot of very over weight are still functionally healthy, to a
greater or lesser extent. But my take on this is simple - if
someone's habitual patterns and decisions are leading them to
progressively damage their own health, and if they are either not
aware of this or are unwilling/unable to change it, then I think
that's relevant. I think about my teachers in a holistic/systemic
way. I know their own internal structure is feeding their ideas
and the delivery of those ideas, and they'll influence me at very
deep levels. I'm looking for how the system works as a whole,
and also what's not working.

There's also the point about congruence. What Lenny said about
Michael Neill is a good point. It felt odd for me to be there
promoting the author of Be Happy Now - teaching people about
success - while he was sharing with everyone how depressed
he'd felt only a week before. And at the same time, how
wonderfully real. How fantastic of him to cut through all the
super shiny crap and make the very raw point that we're all
human beings, we're all still growing, we're all a bit mad in our
own way... and it's great. I always learn a lot from Michael
precisely because he's so open and authentic.

If someone genuinely wants to be fat for some reason, I think
that's cool. If they genuinely want to slim down and are
struggling with that, I think that's cool too. I don't expect
teachers to be super-human or made in my image. But I do like
to learn from people who know themselves and are honest with
themselves, and I think it's extremely rare to meet someone who
genuinely choses to prioritise other things over their health. In
my experience so far, most NLP trainers who are asked about
their body issues are full of shit, and that seeps through even if
they're not asked about it. There are counter-examples to this of
course. But overall that's been my experience so far - and it's
the shit I object to, not the fat.

Nothing I write is meant to be taken literally, including
this.

Chris Morris Events | Add me on Facebook | Follow me on
Twitter
Stephen joined:
Total posts:

Nov 2007
630

It's an interesting question - is it congruent to help someone else
lose weight through coaching / hypnosis / NLP, if you yourself
are overweight.

On the surface, I'd agree not. And yet, I bet Richard Bandler
could definitely help someone who wanted to lose weight. I bet
Michael De Busk could. So why shouldn't they?

I mean, Angelo Dundee coached Muhammad Ali to be champion
of the world without first being champion of the world.

I can see the rationale, but is it just conventional wisdom limiting
our thinking?

Cheers

PS. Chris makes a great point. He was probably typing that as I
was typing mine. I agree no one chooses to be unhealthy. And,
it's not necessarily that they fail in positive attempts to be
healthy either. There probably isn't any attempt or intent either
way. It's probably non-choice, rather than a choice. Or a non-
choice around health coupled with a positive choice around
pleasure and enjoyment. Or defaulting to pleasure without any
desire or intent to do otherwise. But not a choice to be
overweight or something.
Last edited by Steve_W; 14th Jul 10 at 11:03 am.

My Web Site | My NLP Site | My Coaching Site | Facebook |
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Stephen Woolston

Michael DeBusk

Michael joined:
Total posts:

Nov 2007
1,289

I'm no trainer, and you're welcome to impose your values on me
if you like. I'm fully aware that my condition is my decision.
Every time I take the elevator instead of the stairs, it's my
choice. Last night, when the waiter brought me about 30% more
food than I thought he was going to, I ate it, fully aware that it
was more food than my body needed for fuel.

At the same time, the oatmeal I'm having for breakfast right now
is my choice, too, and I must say it's pretty good for oatmeal.
And the fist-full of food supplements I just swallowed is my
choice, too. (The niacin has brought my LDL down to well within
normal limits over the past three years. Yay for me.) And
chewing my food more... something I wasn't even aware I was
doing incorrectly until dinner with a friend who had recently had
bariatric surgery brought it to mind... I still have to consciously
choose it. But I do.

I am one of those oddball "away-from" people in most contexts.
I could be healthier -- I'm surprised that I'm not quite a bit
UNhealthier -- but the things I'd have to do to get there are
things I'd rather avoid. And the long-term? I've walked through
Intensive Care enough times to know I'd rather not live to be
old.

I don't know what else to say on the subject.

Have I updated the NLPhilia Blog lately?

chris_morris wrote:
It tickles me when NLP trainers admit they could be
healthier (if they wanted to be) but they choose not to be,
and therefore we shouldn't impose our values on them...
Michael DeBusk

Michael joined:
Total posts:

Nov 2007
1,289

Oh, sure, I could. Losing weight is not a complicated thing for
most people. Most, though, are of the mind that if one hasn't
done it, one can't do it. Anything I'd offer to someone would be
rejected on those illogical grounds because people tend to not
make decisions logically.


Steve_W wrote:
On the surface, I'd agree not. And yet, I bet Richard
Bandler could definitely help someone who wanted to lose
weight. I bet Michael De Busk could. So why shouldn't they?
Alistair joined:
Total posts:

Jan 2009
788

Even when you're moving away from something you're moving
towards something else...

Alistair Donnell

Michael_DeBusk wrote:

I am one of those oddball "away-from" people in most
contexts. I could be healthier -- I'm surprised that I'm not
quite a bit UNhealthier -- but the things I'd have to do to
get there are things I'd rather avoid. And the long-term?
I've walked through Intensive Care enough times to know
I'd rather not live to be old.

I don't know what else to say on the subject.
Peeking through the window of Academia
http://memoirsofannlppractitioner.blogspot.com/
Alistair joined:
Total posts:

Jan 2009
788

I'm underweight by the way, not sure if that puts a spin on
things...

Peeking through the window of Academia
http://memoirsofannlppractitioner.blogspot.com/
Alistair Donnell

Michael joined:
Total posts:

Nov 2007
1,289

True. Something. By default it has to be something. I'm not sure
what the point to saying it is, though, because that's not how
motivation works.

Michael DeBusk

Alistair_Donnell wrote:
Even when you're moving away from something you're
moving towards something else...
Nigel joined:
Total posts:

Feb 2007
24

I think the point is here, that you are judging them on your own
model of the world - fair enough .... and they have their own
model of the world, so no-one can answer for them!

e.g. You ['whoever'] may be perfectly capable of helping another
through ANY emotional issue, say - and does that mean that
they never have issues of your own to come up?

In your example - the values you have around health and fitness
include a visually appealing shape, to whatever criteria/size
seems right to you. Another person may have a totally different
set of values in regard to health and fitness, judging it on very
different criteria.

Perhaps the person was twice that size previously and has
Nigel Horwood

Sebwalace wrote:
I feel this question might be a bit risky and rude but I
thought I would ask.

I see a lot of great NLPers who do great change work and
who I consider very skilled at being able to change people's
psychology.

We all know that appearance is one of the first things
people judge upon meeting.

My belief is - if you are a great practical psychologist then
your health and fitness will be a reflection of that. Your
physical body is a reflection of your psychology.

Is it because although some NLPers are great but they do
not value health & fitness/appearance?

I'm only curious.

Sebastian
achieved a great deal in that realm without your knowledge, or
perhaps their business receives more value to them than their
shape.

We spend our time in alignment with our values.

your comment ...
"We all know that appearance is one of the first things people
judge upon meeting."

That is your projection and not relevant for ''all" !!
Michael joined:
Total posts:

Nov 2007
1,289

Would that that were true. Research has shown, though, that
people do make initial judgments about other people based on
appearance. It's one of those things that is so consistently found
that it may well be hard-wired.

Michael DeBusk

Nigel H wrote:
your comment ...
"We all know that appearance is one of the first things
people judge upon meeting."

That is your projection and not relevant for ''all" !!
Seb Wallace

Seb joined:
Total posts:

May 2010
36

That's literally just what me and my girlfriend were saying in
talking on this subject.

Michael_DeBusk wrote:
Would that that were true. Research has shown, though,
that people do make initial judgments about other people
based on appearance. It's one of those things that is so
consistently found that it may well be hard-wired.
Michael joined:
Total posts:

Nov 2007
1,289

I know. I couldn't help overhearing.

Michael DeBusk

Sebwalace wrote:
That's literally just what me and my girlfriend were saying in
talking on this subject.
James Tsakalos

James joined:
Total posts:

Apr 2006
859

Just to throw something into the mix here ...

People who have the skills to do what they congruently want to
do will do ... what they congruently want to do. If somebody
congruently wants to lose weight or make a squillion dollars, and
they have the skills to do so, they probably will.

So here's an example: I'm an NLP trainer. I've never been
fixated on looking like a magazine cover model, because that's
just FAR from important in the grand scheme of things, in my
personal worldview. So I just do what I like doing.

Now ... recently, I decided I want to get back into some of the
fun physical activities that used to light me up. I haven't done a
lot of those things for a while because my weight and fitness
weren't up to it. No big deal - until I decided to do them again.
So I dropped 20kg. And I'll be dropping another 15kg over the
next couple of months. And again - that's no big deal either. I'm
still not fixated on looking like a magazine cover model. The only
difference is that now I have a reason to change my shape that I
actually give a shit about. That's all.

Cheers,

James T

Spiral Somatics in London, June 4-6 2010 | Learn NLP in
Melbourne, Australia

Yvonne joined:
Total posts:

Jun 2010
49

"Also I knew that my question would bring up aggravation so as
I keep mentioning - this post is based on my beliefs. My beliefs
are (1) - "your physical body is a reflection of your psychology
(2) - how well you take care of yourself." - "If you take care of
yourself it will show up in your health and fitness."
Yvonne Sanders

Posted: 21st Jul 10, 03:28 am

1. There we are then
2. What about the insecure person who over compensates by
plastering their face with make-up before they dare walk out the
door? What about the person who is 100% comfortable
wandering about in sweatpants and hasn't shaved for a week?
3. Comes back to 1 (for me)

p.s You're not Henry Rollins are you? He had(has?) a similar pov.
Stephen joined:
Total posts:

Nov 2007
630

Yvonne raises a good point.

If we accept that one's physical body is a reflection of their
psychology, does being overweight necessarily mean "can't look
after onesself" or "don't care". Could it mean "happy and
confident whatever", or "I don't judge myself by my body".

Well, it depends what other physical criteria are present. I mean,
"overweight", is a monster-chunk piece of criteria. There are
many other variables within that chunk, I think.

Cheers

My Web Site | My NLP Site | My Coaching Site | Facebook |
Twitter | My Blog
Stephen Woolston


Chris Morris

Chris joined:
Total posts:
Aug 2005
2,428

You can make anything mean anything, with sufficient
imagination. But why accept that one's physical body is a
reflection of their psychology? If you want a mind/body split, use
an axe! Most people's experience is led by their physiology in so
many ways they don't understand, and it's like wearing a
coloured contact lens. After a while, you no longer notice it. It
becomes the norm. It feels like that's just who you are.

A couple of years ago I started offering a deal to potential clients
who called up saying they were depressed. I have a list of things
I ask them to do every day for six weeks - things like drinking
water, getting some sunlight, taking vitamins and minerals,
getting massages, singing and dancing. If they still think they're
depressed after six weeks of that, I'll work with them for free
(because I know I can learn from them). What I've found is 90%
of people who go through with it come back and say they feel
high afterwards; they realise they weren't depressed at all - just
sluggish. The remaining 10% feel better but there's some work
to do on other things.

I don't know any way to consume more calories than you need
and not be sluggish. I don't know any way to be substantially
over weight and not be sluggish. So although I appreciate that
people may habituate to where they're at and not notice their
limitations, I really think the body and mind are one system and
loving yourself means accepting where you're at now and also
making congruent decisions day-to-day. It doesn't mean being
perfect or beating yourself up, but it does mean being honest
with yourself and not hiding behind some story or ritual of
excuses. People who love themselves look after themselves.
That's just how it is, in my experience. (See - I'm not always
flexible!! )

this.

Twitter
Steve_W wrote:
If we accept that one's physical body is a reflection of their
psychology, does being overweight necessarily mean "can't
look after onesself" or "don't care". Could it mean "happy
and confident whatever", or "I don't judge myself by my
body".
chris arthur

Chris joined:
Total posts:

Jun 2009
34

If you went to a doctor for a smoking related illness, would you
care if they were a smoker. If you went for a drink related
illness, would it matter as long as the treatment worked.

Chris joined:
Total posts:

Aug 2005
2,428

If a doctor was offering a new, untested drug (not approved by
any authority) and they'd taken it themselves and it hadn't
worked, but did produce some negative side effects, would you
take it then?

this.

Twitter
Chris Morris

Venus Brown

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Venus joined:
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Nov 2005
1,007

Sometimes being overweight or looking a certain a way is
appropriate to the task at hand.

It's as simple as that.

Venus

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