FIRST MAJOR INTERVIEW

'If I am to be a complete politician, I

think I must lose a couple of
elections. I can't be a good politician
if I don't lose elections. I am not afraid
of losing. That is part of life '
To bust a myth first. At 34, Rahul Gandhi is not a reluctant politician. He All Under Control? The
is raring to go, and has his priorities laid out. Only, he wants to do his MP is all ears for his
politics differently — his way. He doesn't want to repeat what he calls the constituents
mistakes of the past. He doesn't like talking to the media but invited Vijay Photo by Shibani
Chaudhury
Simha for what became an hour-long interview, his first major one. Here
is what he said:

As CWC member, I
Rahul was unstoppable once he got going. At times he was like an can't tell the prime
express train, moving from thought to thought at great speed. He had minister not to do
good fun, laughing at many things, and went over several aspects of his something. I can't tell
personality. He is free with his hands, and likes to make gestures to senior ministers and
stress a point while he speaks. Every time he cracked a joke, he hitched party leaders not to
up the sleeves of his white kurta. do something. That
will be awkward
Several television crews lined up outside the Munshiganj guesthouse in
Amethi where the interview was granted. There were about 20 security
personnel inside the gates, more than half from the SPG. They had dozed off by the time the interview
was over. Rahul is just beginning his career but is already expected to be adept at performing
miracles. Maybe he will, in time.
I've been driving around Amethi and my bones are rattled. Someone like you should be able to
do so much, and yet things don't look good. What's happening?

If you want to know what's going on here, you need to understand that there are lots of issues. I am a
Member of Parliament, and an MP can't do much. I get Rs 2 crore (under the MP Local Area
Development Scheme). That allows me to lay 8 kilometres of road. That's it.

But we have been able to get 500 kilometres of road laid in Amethi. To me that's an achievement.
What can I do beyond that? Nothing. You've seen the place. Nothing works here except the Sanjay
Gandhi Hospital. However, I can't blame the state government and say everything is their fault. My
men do that but I can't.

So I use my influence. I know that my voice counts. I go to the ministers at the Centre and tell them,
bhaiyya yeh kar do, bhaiyya woh kar do (please do this, please do that). I fold my hands and plead
with them. It works and I am able to get something done.

The rest of Uttar Pradesh also looks in bad shape.

Uttar Pradesh and Bihar are in a different category it appears. You can travel right across these two
states but you won't find a trace of governance here. There is no functioning government in UP and
Bihar, and so there is no governance. There is a total collapse of the administrative system in these
states. Nothing happens here.

So how come you still back the Mulayam Singh government?

That cannot go on. I don't support that (the UP government) at all. I am not going to bat out this one.
I'll do something about it.

What makes someone like you support people like Mulayam and Laloo Yadav?

I can't go around telling people what to do about Mulayam and Laloo. There are senior Congress
leaders involved in this, and they take the decisions. It is not just the issue of support; there are lots of
other things. These are tricky questions, and a lot of people ask me about this. But it doesn't work that
way, that one fine day we decide we don't want to go along with them and that's it. It is a complex
issue, and I don't want to go into it right now. Let's get back to development.

How do you work in Amethi?

Ah. Now that's a question I like. I work through NGOs, and that doesn't interest the media. The media
wants things done like this (snaps his fingers). They want everything done yesterday. But it doesn't
work like that. India is a country of 1.5 billion people. We have a network of NGOs but it takes time.

Look at Amethi. Do you know that we have been able to educate 40,000 people? If you come to
Amethi after a month, you will find every Congress worker teaching children in his or her house. Each
one will teach one or two children. That is the way I work. That is meaningful work. You will be foolish;
I will be foolish to say that I am going to do things in a week. I am not going to do things in a week.
That is not the way I am. That is not the idea.

Is IT (Information Technology) a good tool for this?

There is excessive hype about IT in India. It affects only a few people, and I can't see why so much is
made of it. There is no doubt that IT is a growing area, but I am looking at empowering the multitude. I
think education is the way to go. We simply can't progress until we give people in places like this
(Amethi) a chance. I agree that good work is being done in Karnataka and Tamil Nadu, but that is not
the case elsewhere.

Are you failing to do what you

want to?

My idea of politics is not to do things

in a week. If somebody wants to
come to me and say that I have
failed, well fine… I am not failing. I
am succeeding.

If there's anything being done

anywhere in Uttar Pradesh, it is in
Amethi. In fact, no other MP in the At The Durbar: Rahul
country is doing as much as I am. helps a handicapped
constituent
Photo by K. Satheesh
I kind of feel sad at the way things
are.

Then you have not understood the I am not like those

point. Pity is not the emotion to blokes who believe
summon. People are tough here. they don't have a job
They are positive, and they go about if they are not seen on
their lives in the best way they can. I television, or if they
think there's a fabulous lesson for us are not in the CWC or
the way people conduct themselves whatever
in Amethi.

Well, in that sense yes.

You know, I am sorry to say this but you seem to have come to Amethi with arrogance. You seem to
think that these guys know nothing. They don't know how to fix things.

I did think on those lines.

Let me tell you about arrogance. My first lesson in arrogance in my professional life came from a
bathroom in the UK. I was doing consultancy for a firm in England. They were into distribution, you
know, getting things around. I had one look and I thought these guys know nothing. I can fix things in
a day or two. I did what I was asked to. My boss was pleased.
He gave me another responsibility. Something else in the same organisation that needed fixing. It was
a mess. I had already done my first job well. So I was confident. I had the answer. I thought, man, bar
codes are the solution. We can fix things by having different bar codes for different products. The
boss looked at me quietly. He told me I was good at my job, and asked me to have a look at the office
bathroom.

The bathroom was full of graffiti. This guy is like that, that guy is like this etc. Suddenly it hit me. All
the bar codes in the world wouldn't have helped. The problem was something else. That, my friend, is
arrogance. It is one bathroom lesson I haven't forgotten. That is the arrogance you have to deal with.
When I take life this way, I stop thinking that the other guy is a joker. I realise I am the joker.

Are these values part of your politics?

I am not in politics to believe that I know everything. I do not arrogate to myself the belief that I am the
repository of wisdom. I do not believe in the Indian tradition that there is one repository of knowledge,
and that this repository is going to do everything. I am not like that.

I believe that you know more than me in the job that you do. The guy who fixes the air-conditioner at
my place knows more than me about air-conditioning. The person who sweeps outside my house
knows more about sweeping than I do. My job in politics is to transmit the
knowledge that people have from one person to another. This outlook is
central to my life. I hope that I will have the ability to learn till the day I die.

Why did you get into politics?

You mean what is my goal. My goal is take India to the number one slot.
Everyone under the age of 30 has to have a shot. For that, I can't afford
to make the same mistakes of the past.

All In The Family: The

How was family on this? Amethi MP with Priyanka
and Robert Vadra
My family is a great learning place. They know what I want to do — make Photo by Sharad Saxena
India the number 1. For that, my family taught me to be humble. I was told
how to respect what others do, and not to assume that I know everything.

Surely you are able to bring something more to the table now.

Of course. I can certainly take something more to the table now. But that is not enough. I believe in
educating oneself. I believe in going out, finding out for yourself what it's like and then learning to do
something to improve things. I am still learning. I am very clear about what I want to do. I will not do
politics like the way some others do. I will not do it. I will do politics my way and in my time. Nobody
can force me to do anything. My idea of politics is very different from what is being done now.

Are you saying you are not ready to get into the Congress Working Committee?

You really need to take something along where you go. It will be wrong if people put pressure on me.
As a CWC member I can't tell the prime minister not to do something. I can't tell senior ministers and
senior party leaders not to do something. That will be awkward. That will happen if I am pushed into it.

Is it yes or no?

I will get into the CWC. I will take more responsibility in the party. After all I am in politics. But I have
my own clear plans. Of course, I'll take my place at the appointed time. But the media is always in a
hurry. They want to know when I am going to do this or do that. I am not like the other politicians. I am
not like those blokes who believe they don't have a job if they are not seen on television, or if they are
not in the CWC or whatever else. The media may never ask me anything again, and it's fine with me.
You may never want to see me again but I won't be rushed into anything because you want it that
way.
What about your mother? Can you say no to her?

(Laughs) I am a stubborn person. My mother can come to me, sit in front of me, and tell me do this, or
do that. My sister can join my mother and do the same thing. But if my mind is made up, then I will not
do it. My mother can tell me a 100 times, but I won't do something if I don't want to.

How was it with your father?

I'll tell you one of my last conversations with my father. We were sitting together, and I asked him
what would you do if you were out of politics. He told me he would retire and spend the rest of his time
in a village. That is the kind of person I am.

Where do you get your belief?

I get my belief from my people.

You mean people as in family?

No, I mean the people from Amethi whom I come to. You should see the belief they have in me. Each
one thinks I can do things for them. When I see that, I get huge strength and I can actually do it for
them.

People are fickle. The same people can go against you. How do you plan to deal with that?

My personality is made. I am done. There is nothing more to be made of me. I am what I am. My
strength comes from me, not from what happens outside of me. I am not going to change inside. I am
prepared for things going the other way. I understand I can't always have things my way.

What about the Congress? Does it think the same way about you?

There is fear of failure here. People keep saying what if this goes wrong, what if that doesn't work.
Every time I want to do something, there is this fear that it may go wrong. It comes up each time.

Are you afraid of failure?

No. I think one can't be a complete

human being if one has not dealt
with failure. If I am to be a complete
politician I think I must lose a couple
of elections. I cannot be a good
politician if I don't lose elections. It
rounds up a personality. I am not
afraid of losing. That is part of life.
His Own Man: Rahul with
Congress President and
You probably think that way because
mother Sonia Gandhi
you have gone inward. You may Photo by Sharad Saxena
have detached yourself from
possessions.
My first lesson in
(Long pause) If you are going to ask
arrogance in
me to sleep on a wooden bed for the
professional life came
rest of my life, I am not going to say
from a bathroom in
let's begin. It's not that I have
England. I haven't
detached myself from possessions.
forgotten it
That would be good when I am
older, say 45 or so. It is a good
thing, to be detached. One must head towards it, maybe when I am older.

What is this about your reluctance for politics?

That is bullshit. People keep saying I am shy. Oh, he's so shy. The media says it all the time. I am not
at all shy. I am not reluctant. I am an extrovert. I am like that all the time. You can ask my friends. I am
the one who talks the most. I am the one making plans when we get together.

Why did you go to Hamburg?

I am not going to learn if I don't go to other countries. Here, people keep asking why I travel abroad. I
am not going to do politics the way these people have done. I am not going to spin the same old
wheels. When I meet people from other countries, they ask me about our problems. I think that if they
are asking me this, there must be something wrong with the way we do things. How are we going to
correct it? Not by doing the same things that people have been doing for years.

I'll tell you one of my experiences in Hamburg. There was this president of a small country, a young
guy who I am not going to name. He sat in front of me, and was quiet for a long while. Then he looked
at me and said it all depends on aid. Everything depends on aid. I wondered what's wrong with this
guy. How can development rest on aid? Then he laid it out for me. He broke it up into little facts and
showed me how important aid is. I go to Hamburg and this is what I get. How am I going to pick up
something like this in India? How can I learn anything if I stay put in India and keep doing the same
things as everybody else? I need to keep an open mind.

What about other trips?

I'll tell you about one of the conferences I attended in Switzerland. There were prime ministers and
presidents. I listened to what they were saying. They were idealistic and talking of how things must
improve for the weakest person in their country. I told them that
as long as they think like that, their countries would never have a I have a feeling you will come
problem. to me 10 years later and say
what the hell, you have
compromised
All right. But why don't you ask questions in Parliament, or
speak on issues at home?

I don't ask questions in Parliament because I like to think things through. Just look around at the
questions that are asked in Parliament, and you'll know why I don't ask questions. I mean look at
them. Is that the kind of stuff you want me to ask?

I can't remember any of the questions anyway.

But surely you remember my question on sugarcane farmers. You remember it because I asked it,
and something was done immediately for the farmers (the farmers' dues were cleared). That is the
kind of question I like to ask. A question that leads to action.

I remember it because you had asked it.

That's the point. I am different. I am not like the other politicians. Anybody who wants me to do what
the others are doing is making a mistake. I take pains and learn about an issue. Only when I am
properly educated, do I go ahead. I have a team of people and we look into everything minutely. I am
not going to repeat what the others do, inside or outside Parliament.

Is your approach working?

It is. We won most of the pradhan seats in Amethi (in the recently concluded panchayat elections in
UP). But the media is not screaming about it. Why do you think we won? Because we do things
differently, and people appreciate it. I am in politics, not journalism. You can write bullshit and get way
with it. I can't do it in politics.

You sound good now. What if you change along the way?

(Long pause) I have a feeling that you will come to me 10 years later and say what the hell, you
compromised on this, you compromised on that. In a country like ours I may need to compromise. But
if I remain pure inside, it's all right.
Sep 24 , 2005