IEEE TRANSACTIONS ON POWER DELIVERY, VOL. 22, NO.

2, APRIL 2007

1261

Discussions and Closures

Discussion of An Efficient Method to Compute Transfer
Function of a Transformer From Its Equivalent Circuit

Closure on An Efficient Method to Compute Transfer

Function of a Transformer From Its Equivalent Circuit

Marjan Popov, Lou van der Sluis, and Gerardus Christopher Paap

K. Ragavan and L. Satish

The authors [1] presented an interesting method to extract the

transfer function from the equivalent circuit of a two-winding transformer. The equivalent circuit is based on the nodal conductance
matrix G, nodal reciprocal inductance matrix 0, and nodal capacitance
matrix C. So far, there were many articles published so that the
transfer function of a particular transformer was extracted from the
measured transformer terminal impedance. The method presented here
is clear and easily applicable by making use of the powerful Matlab
functions. Furthermore, one can determine the resonance frequencies
of a particular transformer more accurately.
To show the applicability, a lightning impulse at the transformer terminal is applied and a response at the end of the first pi-section (Fig. 1)
is computed. These results are according to the expectations. We would
appreciate an answer to the following questions:
In the particular case, it is not clearly defined whether a pi-section
corresponds to a coil, a group of coils, or a turn (Fig. 2). In most
cases, the transformer might suffer from steep interturn voltages.
The authors claim that by using this method, there is no limit on
the size of the network. To preserve reasonable calculation times
and memory usage in todays personal computers, can the authors
comment on the size of the network model when all interturn voltages needs to be calculated?
For short-time intervals (1 s) within peak voltages, the effect of
the losses is not significant [2]. However, for longer time intervals
(a few hundreds of microseconds), not only might the winding
losses have a significant influence but also the core losses due to
the flux penetration inside the core [3]. How do the authors represent the losses (r0 ) in their case? How do they calculate the inductances, the reciprocal inductance matrix 0, and the capacitance
matrix C ?

We thank Profs. Popov, van der Sluis, and Paap for writing a discussion on our paper [1]. We trust that they will find our response
acceptable.
Generally, a study on transformer windings essentially consists of
two important phases, viz.
1) Representation of windings by their equivalent circuit.
2) Efficient solution of equivalent circuit.
The primary objective of our paper [1] concerns the second phase
alone, under the presumption that an equivalent circuit representation
is made available. However, both questions posed by the discussers pertain to matters related to the first phase (i.e., how the equivalent circuit
originated, how the size of the network is chosen when all interturn
voltages need to be calculated, what the extent of influence is of losses
on circuit elements, etc.). Nonetheless, we provide answers.
Item 1
1) The results presented in [1] pertain to a two-winding transformer structure, with the circuit elements chosen to satisfy
conditions given in Section 1 of the paper, as well as being
close to practically encountered values. The validity of this
equivalent circuit has been established over several decades
as seen from the agreement between calculated and measured
natural frequencies. It must be emphasized that the extension
of such a network to enable the calculation of interturn voltages is not yet established theoretically and is even more difficult to experimentally verify.
2) The proposed solution imposes, practically, no limit on the
size of a network that can be modeled. This is not merely
a claim as remarked by the discussers, but has adequately
been supported by results, see [1, Table 1]. We believe that
the ability to compute the poles and zeros of transfer function
of a two-winding transformer with 250 sections per winding
within 709 s is an adequate proof of achieved time efficiency.
3) Regarding the size of network when all interturn voltages need
to be calculated, no specific answers can be provided. However, a generally accepted rule of thumb specified by Abetti
[2] might be appropriate to quote, where it states it would be
sufficient to choose the number of sections somewhat larger
than the required number of natural frequencies.
Item 2
1) It has been clearly mentioned in [1, Sec. 1] that the elements of
the equivalent circuit are determined using quasistatic approximations. In the example considered, a constant loss (i.e., fixed
r and r0 ) has been assumed and other elements were chosen,
as already explained.

REFERENCES
[1] K. Ragavan and L. Satish, An efficient method to compute transfer
function of a transformer from its equivalent circuit, IEEE Trans.
Power Del., vol. 20, no. 2, pt. 1, pp. 780788, Apr. 2005.
[2] P. G. McLaren and M. H. Abdel-Raman, Modeling of large AC motor
coils for steep-fronted surges studies, IEEE Trans. Ind. Appl., vol. 24,
no. 3, pp. 422426, May/Jun. 1988.
[3] J. L. Guardado and K. J. Cornick, Calculation of the machine
winding electrical parameters at high frequencies for switching
transients studies, IEEE Trans. Energy Convers., vol. 11, no. 1, pp.
3340, Mar. 1996.

Manuscript received May 8, 2005. Paper no. TPWRD-00563-2003.

The authors are with the Delft University of Technology, Delft 2628 CD, The
Netherlands (e-mail: M.Popov@tudelft.nl).
Digital Object Identifier 10.1109/TPWRD.2007.893952

Manuscript received September 28, 2005. Paper no. TPWRD-00563-2003.

K. Ragavan is with GE India Technology Center Pvt. Ltd., Bangalore 560066,
India.
L. Satish is with the HV Lab, Department of Electrical Engineering, Indian
Institute of Science, Bangalore 560012, India.
Digital Object Identifier 10.1109/TPWRD.2007.893940

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IEEE TRANSACTIONS ON POWER DELIVERY, VOL. 22, NO. 2, APRIL 2007

2) If the effect of core nonlinearity, increased damping or loss at

higher frequencies, the influence of frequency on circuit elements, etc. has also to be incorporated into the model; then, a
more complicated circuit would be required. The direct extension of the proposed method of solution to such cases does not
appear straightforward, and obtaining a generalized closedform solution seems impossible. Alternatively, instead of a
single equivalent circuit, the winding could be represented
by a number of equivalent circuits (depending on the desired
resolution), where each one is valid within a frequency interval. The individual circuits are solved in the usual way,
but finding answers to newer questions such as, how the individual transfer functions are to be combined, how transfer
function discontinuity at frequency transitions can be avoided,
etc., would require further work.
Initially, the discussers make a comment on the existence of
many articles that describe the extraction of transfer function
from measured transformer terminal impedance. This remark
appears surprising and is incorrect. Our response on this matter
is as follows.
The transfer function (i.e., transfer impedance) and drivingpoint (terminal) impedance function are different quantities,
having only their poles (which are the same as open-circuit
natural frequencies of the network) as common, while their respective zeros are totally unrelated [3]. Therefore, it is not possible to extract the transfer function using a measured transformer terminal impedance. As no reference has been cited,
further discussion is not possible.

REFERENCES
[1] K. Ragavan and L. Satish, An efficient method to compute transfer
function of a transformer from its equivalent circuit, IEEE Trans.
Power Del., vol. 20, no. 2, pt. 1, pp. 780788, Apr. 2005.
[2] P. A. Abetti and F. J. Maginniss, Natural frequencies of coils and
windings determined by equivalent circuit, AIEE Trans., vol. 72, pt.
III, pp. 495504, Jun. 1953.
[3] E. A. Guillemin, Synthesis of Passive Networks. New York: Wiley,
1962.

Discussion of Are Harmonic Recommendations According

to IEEE and IEC Too Restrictive?
Dingsheng Lin
This discusser would like to ask the authors [1] to answer the following questions.
1) Having taught Maxwells equations for a long time [2], this discusser would like to propose that the authors extend their analysis
to the propagation of harmonic fields in space. This question is
related to the well-established telephone interference factor (TIF)
that the authors have neither mentioned nor employed. Is the TIF
still a useful concept?
2) Capacitor placement alters the harmonic environment through
possible series and parallel resonances. Do the authors have

Manuscript received August 26, 2003. Paper no. TPWRD-00022-2003.

The author is with Ansoft Corporation, Pittsburgh, PA 15219 USA (e-mail:
dlin@ansoft.com).
Digital Object Identifier 10.1109/TPWRD.2007.893957

experience in controlling such resonant conditions through constrained optimization?

3) In [5] of the paper, the impact of inter and subharmonic voltages
on television screens of vacuum-tube-type monitors is discussed.
Do such harmonic voltages also cause disturbances in flat-plate
television or computer monitors?
4) The increase of power-electronic components, such as
pulse-width-modulated (PWM) current-source converters [3][6]
has lead to increased insulation failures in cables, transformers,
and rotating machines. The reason for such failures are the
current spikes which have a short rise time (s range) resulting
in large induced voltages in magnetic devices due to ever-present
inductances and parasitic capacitances. The discontinuities of the
winding or cable parameters (e.g., L and C) lead to locally large
interturn or turn-to-ground voltages. Such PWM current-source
waveshapes should be limited in a similar manner as the amplitudes of sub, inter, and integer harmonic currents. Can the authors
comment on this problem?
5) Distortion power D was defined by Budeanu [7], [8] but has not
found any useful application. With the increase of the harmonics
in distribution systems due to distributed generation (DG) and
greater reliance on power-electronic loads (e.g., rectifiers, inverters), distortion power could be used to measure the harmonic
contribution of consumers and power (distributed) generators.
That is, harmonic generators would have to pay for distortion
power D as it is done for peak power consumption Ppeak , real
power P, and reactive power Q.
6) In some cases, spatial harmonics create time sub, inter, and integer harmonics in electrical machines and cause power system
disturbances. Could the authors comment on this issue? Are there
pertinent references available on this topic?
7) Reference [9] indicates that the losses of saturated transformers
depend also on the harmonic phase shifts. Do the authors believe
that a revised Standard IEEE-519 should also address the issue of
harmonic phase shifts?
Guidelines of existing harmonic IEEE and IEC standards appear to
be based on the observation of electrical apparatus performance during
the past 20 years and are not derived from specific measurements and
calculation as presented in this paper. It is certainly wise to impose
restrictive guidelines. However, it does not seem justified to not investigate harmonic voltage and current limits of electrical apparatus. This
paper makes a long-needed contribution in this direction for residential power distribution systems. It is hoped that a similar study will be
published for industrial and commercial (three-phase) power systems.

REFERENCES
[1] E. F. Fuchs, D. J. Roesler, and M. A. S. Masoum, Are harmonic
recommendations according to IEEE and IEC too restrictive?, IEEE
Trans. Power Del., vol. 19, no. 4, pp. 17751786, Oct. 2004.
[2] C. T. A. Johnk, Engineering Electromagnetic Fields and Waves, 1st
ed. New York: Wiley, 1975, and 2nd ed. 1988.
[3] M. Kaufhold et al., Electrical stress and failure mechanism of the
winding insulation in PWM-inverter-fed low-voltage induction motors, IEEE Trans. Ind. Electron., vol. 47, no. 3, pp. 396402, Apr.
2000.
[4] J. Wang et al., Insulation fault detection in a PWM controlled induction motorExperimental design and preliminary results, Paper
0-7803-6, 2000, IEEE.
[5] A. H. Bonnet, Analysis of the impact of pulse-width modulated inverter voltage waveforms on ac induction motors, IEEE Trans. Ind.
Appl., vol. 32, no. 2, pp. 386392, Mar./Apr. 1996.
[6] H. W. Penrose, Electric motor repair for low voltage induction motors in PWM inverter duty environments, in Proc. Elect. Insul. Elect.
Manuf. Coil Winding Conf. (Cat. No. 97CH36075), pp. 841848.

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