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Timer Circuit
I found this (http://jamesyawn.com/timers/index.html) simple circiut on
jamesyawn.com, and was wondering if and how to change it so that it could time in
the minutes, longer than it does already. I don't know anything about electronics,
aside from soldering, and basic connections, so try to give a simple-ish answer. I also
wondered about what transistor to use (like a radioshack part number). The circuit I
was talking about is under "discrete timers".
(update, more questions)
What kind of timing (like how many seconds) would I get with this?
Using the same stuff shown on the schematic?
Also, how do I pick a transistor?
Are they interchangeable?
What specs should I be looking for?

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About This Topic

guitardenver (/member/guitardenver/)

5 years ago

Reply (CFQCWCGFS1N6N1F)

555 timer is the next step, look for it on the internet. Radioshack sells it. Its simple
to use and I got up to 30min with it. But its not exact its more in between 25-35min.
(/member/guitardenver/)
(it changes). You want the astable, or osillator mode when you research it, that will
make more sense when you look for it.

24,242 views

John Smith
(/member/John+Smith/)
Follow

Austringer (/member/Austringer/)

6 years ago

Reply (CJHG6ZZFA2KM3JB)

A while back somebody offered me a heap of ego with very precisely zero
advice on one of the Make comment threads. I'm going to give you the advise
(/member/Austringer/)
he would have given me had he not been all about letting me know how smart
he was. Track down a copy of "The Art of Electronics" by Horowitz and Hill!
It's a text book and, ergo, not exactly cheap, but I'm finding it worth it. To
answer one of your questions up there, a capacitor charges in roughly 5RC
where R is the resistance in ohms and C is the capacitance in Farads. In the
diagram you have your looking at 150,000 ohms x .0002 Farads so 2. 5
minutes to FULLY charge the capacitor. Your transistor will do it's thing before
that happens. What are you wanting to do with this? How exact does it need
to be?

gmoon (/member/gmoon/)

6 years ago

Reply (CT57VNBFA0CVCM7)

This uses a PNP transistor. Radio Shack sells the 2N3904, a PNP--but it can
handle 100mA (I've seen small relays that only draw 30-40mA, but an
automotive relay is anywhere between 80-140mA....)

only
(/member/gmoon/)

I'd use a 2N2222--cheap, easy to find, and can sink 1A. But they are NPN
transistors, so change the circuit: Transistor circuits
(http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/trancirc.htm) link.
You might consider using a 555 instead of the simple RC circuit....
Pretty old project there... Ironically, it's described as " Time delay relays are
basic electronic circuits which serve to protect costly equip. from damage due
to current surges ", but there's no surge-protection diode on the relay! Check
out the link above for an explanation of the diode placement.

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) gmoon

Reply (CHPWBSZFA190LKJ)
6 years ago

Ok, I'm lost. I need to find a

electronics book.

simple
(/member/John+Smith/)

Anyway, would a 2N3055 work?

It is NPN, and I have one in the
garage.
The specs of it are here.
(http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/tran.htm)
(at the end of the NPN section)
Thanks for the help.

gmoon (/member/gmoon/)

John Smith
6 years ago

I don't see why not...but that's

serious overkill for a relay! (15
(/member/gmoon/)
amp rating !!) It's gain (Hfe) is
rather small, so it will draw more
base current (no biggie.)

Most of the example on that link

(http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/trancirc.htm)
are NPN, so start there. As far
as converting your original

Reply (C7XG1CJFA0CVDLU)

Posted:
Jun 12, 2007

(/member/John+Smith/)
Bio: college student now

12

schematic (PNP), it's essentially

upside-down compared to the
PNP circuit on the 'Transistor
Circuits' page.
I.E., (for your schem) the power
source polarity-- the GND (-) is
at the top, and the positive is at
the bottom...Use the NPN
circuits, and convert the 'timer'
part by flipping it top-to-bottom...
Both Goodhart and I made the
point about spike protection, so
pay attention...;-)

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) gmoon

Reply (C2GUTOMFA190MAA)
6 years ago

GAH! I'm all confused!

(/member/John+Smith/)

...As far as converting your

original schematic (PNP), it's
essentially upside-down
compared to the PNP circuit on
the 'Transistor Circuits' page.
What do you mean "upside
down"? To what PNP circuit on
that page? I didn't see a timer
there.
I.E., (for your schem) the power
source polarity-- the GND (-) is
at the top, and the positive is at
the bottom...Use the NPN
circuits, and convert the 'timer'
part by flipping it top-to-bottom...
What NPN circuit?
Both Goodhart and I made the
point about spike protection, so
pay attention...;-)
*sigh* I guess now I have to ask
what the heck you are talking
about...
SO, what is "spike protection"?
I am SO sorry that I am making
you do all of the work, I just
don't understand this stuff. I've
tried, but the second I get to
understanding it, I get confused
again!

gmoon (/member/gmoon/)

John Smith
6 years ago

The
(/member/gmoon/)

"that page" link

(http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/trancirc.htm)
reference...
1) What do you mean "upside
down"? To what PNP circuit on
that page? I didn't see a timer
there.
--There is only one PNP circuit
on "that page." Since you want
to use an NPN instead, you'll
need to convert your PNP
circuit to the way they draw
them on "that page..." The
power source polarity on their
drawing is upside-down
compared to yours....
--Yep, no timer there, that's why

Reply (CQ5NW4FFA0CVDZU)

you want to convert your

schematic.
2) What NPN circuit?
--Any NPN circuit on "that
page"--might as well get a
working transistor-switched
relay before tackling the timer...
3) SO, what is "spike
protection"?
See the Protection diode
section on "that page" :
If the load is a motor, relay or
solenoid (or any other device
with a coil) a diode must be
connected across the load to
protect the transistor (and chip)
from damage when the load is
switched off.....
There's a nice illustration next
to the text....

Forget it, I drew you a picture

and converted the circuit to
NPN (No guarantees this will
function, as I'm just copying
someone else's circuit...) The
right side is "their" drawing, the
left is the timer circuit from
yours...

(http://cdn.instructables.com/FMA/ENYZ/FA0CVDZR/FMAENYZFA0CVDZR.LARGE.jpg)

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) gmoon

Reply (CY426SOFA190MCE)
6 years ago

Ok, thanks for clearing that up

I just get confused with
electronics and stuff. Oh, and
thanks for the schematic, too.

for me.
(/member/John+Smith/)

gmoon (/member/gmoon/)

John Smith
6 years ago

Yep. Stick with it, it'll make sense

eventually.
(/member/gmoon/)
A couple things I didn't mention:
--The relay would rated for the
supply voltage ( 5V, 9V ,
12...whatever.)

--The 200uF cap is polarized (has

a + and - side), so don't connect it
backwards. The top in the
drawing is connected to +V, so
that's the + lead...
--There isn't a base resistor, per
say, just the RC timer circuit
connected to the base (maybe
you should add a current limiting
resistor to the base.) But also, the
amount of base current required
to switch on the transistor will

Reply (CK2DEILFA0CVE79)

vary according to the load (the

relay.)
So it's pretty much impossible to
predict what the delay time will
be. Switch the load to an LED or
motor, etc, and the delay will
change...

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) gmoon

Reply (CWG2THIFA190MH8)
6 years ago

Ok, I think I got it, I'll solder one

I wish I had
my breadboard right not...I guess
I'll have to wait for Christmas.

up tomarrow...man,
(/member/John+Smith/)

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) John Smith

Reply (CMRG2J8FA190MHA)
6 years ago

Hey, that's a NC relay, right?

(/member/John+Smith/)

gmoon (/member/gmoon/)

John Smith
6 years ago

Don't think it matters--choose

whichever type suits your
(/member/gmoon/)
purpose. Also, should have
mentioned--the relay voltage
source doesn't need to match
the voltage applied to the timer /
transistor base. In that case, the
'initiate' switch wouldn't be
connected to the relay voltage
source. The switch could just be
connected to the timer part. Both
power supplies need to share
the same GND, of course... For
this circuit, it doesn't matter. But
if you wanted to switch a 12V
relay with a 5V microcontroller
(instead of the RC timer) it
would...

Reply (C16KKANFA0CVEB0)

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) gmoon

Reply (CJU2U86FA190NNV)
6 years ago

Any idea on how to design the

for etching my own board?
I can't seem to get the spacing
right.

traces
(/member/John+Smith/)

gmoon (/member/gmoon/)

John Smith
6 years ago

At this stage (if you don't have a

solderless breadboard), I'd use
(/member/gmoon/)
one of those perfboards with the
copper pads. Be easier to
change components, since you
haven't tested the timer, etc.
Just solder point-to-point with
some wire...

Reply (CAAL04QFA0CVGQ9)

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) gmoon

Reply (CFZ6LHCFA190O0Y)
6 years ago

I did that, and tested it

WORKS! Well, I
have a few kinks to work out, but
I think it WORKS! I can hear the
relay, but, it doesn't seem to stay
on, just a short burst of clicks to
begin with, then silence, even
when I hold the battery on. I think
it's because of a low battery; my
9v I'm using is giving out 8.35v
(even thought that sounds about
right). I'll try it with two 6v lantern

once..and...it
(/member/John+Smith/)

batteries later. You don't think

that'll be too much current, do
you? Gah- I know I'm getting a
breadboard for Christmas,
because I saw the box from The
Electronic Goldmine today!
Dangit, I need it NOW.

gmoon (/member/gmoon/)

John Smith
6 years ago

Yeah, could be a weak battery

(especially if it reads low without
(/member/gmoon/)
a load.) You need to choose the
supply voltage based on the
rating of the device. Running a
6V relay on 12V forces more
current through than the relay
can handle. Your transistor won't
have a problem with 12V (max
60V.)

Reply (CQKIDZIFA0CVH4H)

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) gmoon

Reply (CE88YOAFA190MJE)
6 years ago

Don't think it matters--choose

type suits your
purpose.
Ah, yep, stupid question.

whichever
(/member/John+Smith/)

For this circuit, it doesn't matter.

But if you wanted to switch a 12V
relay with a 5V microcontroller
(instead of the RC timer) it
would...
Ok, I understand that. Hopefully I
can find a working relay
somewhere, and make the circuit
tomorrow...

NachoMahma (/member/NachoMahma/)

7 years ago

Reply (C9O44SYF2NOBR6K)

. If you're talking about "A. Schematic from Radio Shack 150 Project kit (circa
then it's just a simple RC (resistance/capacitance) circuit. . The time
can be changed by varying the resistors and the capacitor. Don't remember
the details, but someone that knows will probably chime in. . It looks to me
that just about any ?NPN? transistor that will handle the load of the relay coil
should work - this is not a "precision" circuit.

1972)",
(/member/NachoMahma/)

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) NachoMahma

Reply (C8L9RKVF3AQ37MC)
7 years ago

Like I said, I don't know much

electronics.
Would a "mpf 102" transistor
work?
Also, could I use a variable
capacitor instead of the variable
resistor? I don't have a variable
resistor around, so...
Also, when I put in the transistor,
which way does it go? According
to this
(http://jamesyawn.com/timers/150kitschematic-776.jpg) page (flat
side to the left/right)?

about
(/member/John+Smith/)

Goodhart (/member/Goodhart/)

John Smith
6 years ago

Reply (CRMGZV0FA2KM3HC)

6 years ago

Reply (CIPDHMNFA0CVCHV)

The MPF102 is a MOSFET

liinke to mpf102 specs
(/member/Goodhart/)
(http://www.futurlec.com/Transistors/MPF102.shtml)

Goodhart (/member/Goodhart/)

http://jamesyawn.com/timers/index.html
(/member/Goodhart/)

Does appear to be a broken link.

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) Goodhart

Reply (CPE3PAJFA190LJ9)
6 years ago

Oh, yep, sure is. his entire

seems to be
gone...awww, I liked it... The
schematic I was talking about is
above, and there isn't much info
on that specific timer on that page
anyway.

website
(/member/John+Smith/)

Goodhart (/member/Goodhart/)

John Smith
6 years ago

The only thing I see that might

be a problem is the lack of a
(/member/Goodhart/)
diode across the coil of the
relay: potential for the creation
of a backwards surge when the
coil opens each time. This
would surely destroy the
transistor.

Reply (CPZUSUVFA2KM0UR)

John Smith (/member/John+Smith/) (author) 6 years ago

Reply (CJX3581FA0CVCFO)

*ahem* BUMP *ahem*

(/member/John+Smith/)

NachoMahma (/member/NachoMahma/)

7 years ago

Reply (CKO1ZCHF3AQ37OJ)

> Like I said, I don't know much about electronics. . It's been several decades
with this stuff so I can't give you any details. :) . > Would a
"mpf 102" transistor work? . Don't know. I no longer have the references to
look it up. . > Also, could I use a variable capacitor instead of the variable
resistor? I don't have a variable resistor around, so... . No. That one I do know
the answer to. . > Also, when I put in the transistor, which way does it go?
According to this page (flat side to the left/right)? . I don't remember. . . Since
you're not getting an answer here, you might try a site devoted to beginning
electronics.

since I worked
(/member/NachoMahma/)

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