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How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries

The lithium-ion battery works on ion movement between the positive and negative electrodes. In theory such a mechanism should work forever, but cycling, elevated
temperature and aging decrease the performance over time. Since batteries are used in demanding environmental conditions, manufacturers take a conservative
approach and specify the life of most Li-ion between 300 and 500 discharge/charge cycles.
Counting cycles is not conclusive because a discharge may vary in depth and there are no clearly defined standards of what constitutes a cycle. Read more
about What Constitutes a Discharge Cycle?. In lieu of cycle count, some batteries in industrial instruments are date-stamped, but this method is not reliable either
because it ignores environmental conditions. A battery may fail within the allotted time due to heavy use or unfavorable temperature conditions, but most quality packs
will last considerably longer than what the stamp indicates.
The performance of a battery is measured in capacity, a leading health indicator. Internal resistance and self-discharge also play a role but with modern Li-ion these
carry lower significance in predicting the end-of-battery-life. Figure 1 illustrates the capacity drop of 11 Li-polymer batteries that have been cycled at a Cadex
laboratory. The 1500mAh pouch cells for smartphones were first charged at a current of 1500mA (1C) to 4.20V/cell and allowed to saturate to 0.05C (75mA) as part of
the full charge procedure. The batteries were then discharged at 1500mA to 3.0V/cell, and the cycle was repeated.

Figure 1: Capacity drop as part of


cycling
A pool of new 1500mAh Liionbatteries for smartphones
istested on a Cadex C7400
battery analyzer. All 11 pouch
packs show a starting capacity of
8894 percent and decrease in
capacity to 7384 percent after
250 full discharge cycles (2010).
Courtesy of Cadex

Although a battery should deliver 100 percent capacity during the first year of service, it is common to see lower than specified capacities, and shelf life may have
contributed to this loss. In addition, manufacturers tend to overrate their batteries; knowing that very few customers would complain. In our test, the expected capacity
loss of Li-ion batteries was uniform over the 250 cycles and the batteries performed as expected.
Similar to a mechanical device that wears out faster with heavy use, so also does the depth of discharge (DoD) determine the cycle count. The shorter the discharge
(low DoD), the longer the battery will last. If at all possible, avoid full discharges and charge the battery more often between uses. Partial discharge on Li-ion is fine;
there is no memory and the battery does not need periodic full discharge cycles to prolong life, other than to calibrate the fuel gauge on a smart battery once in a
while. Read more about Battery Calibration.
Table 2 compares the number of discharge/charge cycles Li-ion can deliver at various DoD levels before the battery capacity drops to 70 percent. The number of
discharge cycles depends on many conditions and includes charge voltage, temperature and load currents. Not all Li-ion systems behave the same.
Depth of discharge

Discharge cycles

100% DoD

300 500

50% DoD

1,200 1,500

25% DoD

2,000 2,500

10% DoD

3,750 4,700

Table 2: Cycle life as a function of


depth of discharge
A partial discharge reduces stress and
prolongs battery life. Elevated temperature
and high currents also affect cycle life.

Lithium-ion suffers from stress when exposed to heat, so does keeping a cell at a high charge voltage. A battery dwelling above 30C (86F) is considered elevated
temperature and for most Li-ion, a voltage above 4.10V/cell is deemed as high voltage. Exposing the battery to high temperature and dwelling in a full state-of-charge
for an extended time can be more stressful than cycling. Table 3 demonstrates capacity loss as a function of temperature and SoC.
Temperature

40% charge

0C

98%

25C

96%

40C

85%

100% charge
94%
80%
65%

Table 3: Estimated recoverable capacity


when storing Li-ion for one year
at various temperatures
Elevated temperature hastens capacity
loss. The capacity cannot be restored. Not

60C

75%

60%

all Li-ion systems behave the same.

(after 3 months)
Most Li-ions are charged to 4.20V/cell and every reduction of 0.10V/cell is said to double cycle life. For example, a lithium-ion cell charged to 4.20V/cell typically
delivers 300500 cycles. If charged to only 4.10V/cell, the life can be prolonged to 6001,000 cycles; 4.00V/cell should deliver 1,2002,000 and 3.90V/cell 2,400
4,000 cycles. Table 4 summarizes these results. The values are estimate and depend on the type of li-ion-ion battery.
Charge level (V/cell) Discharge cycles

Capacity at full
charge

[4.30]

[150 250]

~[110%]

4.20

300 500

100%

4.10

600 1,000

~90%

4.00

1,200 2,000

~80%

3.92

2,400 4,000

~75%

Table 4: Discharge cycles and capacity


as a function of charge
Every 0.10V drop below 4.20V/cell doubles
the cycle; the retained capacity drops
accordingly. Raising the voltage above
4.20V/cell stresses the battery and
compromises safety.

For safety reasons, lithium-ion cannot exceed 4.20V/cell. While a higher voltage would boost capacity, over-voltage shortens service life and compromises safety.
Figure 5 demonstrates cycle count as a function of charge voltage. At 4.35V, the cycle count is cut in half.

Figure 5: Effects on cycle life at


elevated charge voltages
Higher charge voltages boost
capacity but lowers cycle life and
compromises safety.
Source: Choi et al. (2002)

Chargers for cellular phones, laptops, tablets and digital cameras bring the Li-ion battery to 4.20V/cell. This allows maximum capacity, because the consumer wants
nothing less than optimal runtime. Industry, on the other hand, is more concerned about longevity and may choose lower voltage thresholds. Satellites and electric
vehicles are examples where longevity is more important than capacity.
Charging to 4.10V/cell the battery holds about 10 percent less capacity than going all the way to 4.20V. In terms of optimal longevity, a voltage limit of 3.92V/cell works
best but the capacity would only be about half compared to a 4.20V/cell charge (3.92V/cell is said to eliminate all voltage-related stresses).
Besides selecting the best-suited voltage thresholds for a given application, Li-ion should not remain at the high-voltage ceiling of 4.20V/cell for an extended time.
When fully charged, remove the battery and allow to voltage to revert to a more natural level like relaxing after exercise. Although a properly functioning Li-ion charger
will terminate charge when the battery is full, some chargers apply a topping charge if the battery terminal voltage drops to a given level. Read more about Charging
Lithium-ion.

What the user can do


The author of this essay does not depend on the manufacturers specifications alone but also listens to user comments. BatteryUniversity.comis an excellent
sounding board to connect with the public and learn about reality. This approach might be unscientific, but it is genuine. When the critical mass speaks, the
manufacturers listen. The voice of the multitude is in some ways stronger than laboratory tests performed in sheltered environments.
Tables 2, 3 and 4 look at cycle life as a function of discharge, temperature and charge level. A summary table should be added that also states the Optimal Battery
Energy Factor Over Life. While this would help in selecting the optimal battery, battery makers are hesitant to release such a specification freely, and for good reason.
A battery is in constant flux and capturing all of its data is exhaustive. A further criterion is price. Batteries can be built to perform better but this comes at a cost.
Lets look at real-life situations and examine what stresses lithium-ion batteries encounter. Most packs last three to five years. Environmental conditions, and not
cycling alone, are a key ingredient to longevity, and the worst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures. This is the case when running a
laptop off the power grid. Under these conditions, a battery will typically last for about two years, whether cycled or not. The pack does not die suddenly but will give
lower runtimes with aging.
Even more stressful is leaving a battery in a hot car, especially if exposed to the sun. When not in use, store the battery in a cool place. For long-term storage,
manufacturers recommend a 40 percent charge. This allows for some self-discharge while still retaining sufficient charge to keep the protection circuit active. Finding
the ideal state-of-charge is not easy; this would require a discharge with appropriate cut-off. Do not worry too much about the state-of-charge; a cool and dry place is
more important than SoC. Read more about How to Store Batteries.
Batteries are also exposed to elevated temperature when charging on wireless chargers. The energy transfer from a charging mat to a portable device is 70 to 80
percent and the remaining 20 to 30 percent is lost mostly in heat that is transferred to the battery through the mat. We keep in mind that the mat will cool down once
the battery is fully charged. Read more about Charging Without Wires.
Avoid charging a battery faster than 1C; a more moderate charge rate of 0.7C is preferred. Manufacturers of electric powertrains are concerned about super-fast
charging of 20 minutes and less. Similarly, harsh discharges should be avoided as also this also adds to battery stress. Read more about Charging Lithium-ion and
Ultra-fast Chargers.
Commercial chargers do not allow changing the charge voltage limit. Adding this feature would have advantages, especially for laptops as a means to prolong battery
life. When running on extended AC mode, the user could select the long life mode and the battery would charge to 4.00V/cell for a standby capacity of about 70
percent. Before traveling, the user would apply the full charge mode to bring the charge to 100%. Some laptop manufacturers may offer this feature but often only
computer geeks discover them.

Another way to extend battery life is to remove the pack from the laptop when running off the power grid. The Consumer Product Safety Commissionadvises to do this
out of concern for overheating and causing a fire. Removing the battery has the disadvantage of losing unsaved work if a power failure occurs. Heat buildup is also a
concern when operating a laptop in bed or on a pillow, as this may restrict airflow. Placing a ruler or other object under the laptop will improve air circulation and keep
the device cooler.
Should I disconnect my laptop from the power grid when not in use? many ask. Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because once the
lithium-ion battery is full the charger discontinues charge and only engages when the battery voltage drops. Most users do not remove the AC power and I like to
believe that this practice is safe.
Everyone wants to keep the battery as long as possible, but a battery must often operate in environments that are not conducive to optimal service life. Furthermore,
the life of a battery may be cut short by an unexpected failure, and in this respect the battery shares human volatility.
To get a better understanding of what causes irreversible capacity loss in Li-ion batteries, several research laboratories* are performing forensic tests. Scientists
dissected failed batteries to find suspected problem areas on the electrodes. Examining an unrolled 1.5-meter-long strip (5 feet) of metal tape coated with oxide
reveals that the finely structured nanomaterials have coarsened. Further studies revealed that the lithium ions responsible to shuttle electric charge between the
electrodes had diminished on the cathode and had permanently settled on the anode. This results in the cathode having a lower lithium concentration than a new
cell, a phenomenon that is irreversible. Knowing the reason for such capacity loss might enable battery manufacturers to prolong battery life in the future.

* Research is performed by the Center for Automotive Research at the Ohio State University in collaboration with Oak Ridge National Laboratory and the National
Institute of Standards Technology.
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Comments
On October 21, 2010 at 10:38am

John Vanderkooy wrote:


I am grateful to Cadex Electronics for the w hole w ebsite explaining batteries. It is really helpful to restore useful units, assess questionable ones, and the explanations are at a
university level. Thanks.

On October 26, 2010 at 5:29pm

pamela knowler wrote:


How long do I charge a new laptop battery before use? The battery arrived partially charged and information suggests I charge it fully before using. I cant seem to find any information
about how long to charge it...its a lithium ion 9 hour (lenovo) laptop battery.
thanks

On October 28, 2010 at 8:48am

Dennis Lackey wrote:


10-28-10, I sell cell phones and other devices that use lithium batteries and I have been misinforming my customers inregardes to charging requirements of their batteries. ireally found the
information reall useful. Thanks, Dennis

On October 28, 2010 at 3:59pm

Taurug Baca wrote:


What is 1C? What is a C?

On November 6, 2010 at 2:28am

Fred B wrote:
Taurug Baca w rote: What is 1C? What is a C?
To quote http://en.w ikipedia.org/w iki/Battery_charger:
Charge rate is often denoted as C or C-rate and signifies a charge or discharge rate equal to the capacity of a battery in one hour. For a 1.6Ah battery, C = 1.6A. A charge rate of C/2 =
0.8A w ould need tw o hours ... to fully charge the battery from an empty state, if supported by the battery. This also assumes that the battery is 100% efficient at absorbing the charge.

On November 13, 2010 at 3:38pm

James wrote:
What about overcharging? What are the effects of leaving a Lithium-ion battery charging w hen at full capacity?

On November 13, 2010 at 3:41pm

James wrote:
Also, is there an ideal range to charge/discharge the battery in e.g. 40%-70%, ensuring a partial discharge?

On November 16, 2010 at 6:01pm

Carlos Jordan wrote:


I really appreciate your technical info on Lithium-ion batteries. I recently purchased a w onderful Panasonic Camcorder, w hich uses such a battery, and your advice not to fully discarge,
before re-charging is so very helpful, as I thought according to the manual, it w as necessary to discharge fully.
As James asked above, w hat is the ideal partial discharge, before charging again?
Thanking you kindly for your help.

On November 23, 2010 at 2:50pm

nygus wrote:
Sadly, macbooks (and other laptops) run much slow er on fixed pow er (even 4x slow er), w hen battery is removed so battery dies very quickly. I think they use battery as capacitor to
support short demands of higher pow er.

On November 23, 2010 at 7:03pm

David wrote:
If it is better to have the battery charged to 40% and then stored w hile on main pow er, w hy do the laptop manufacturers not program the BIOS to have an option to charge to 40% and
stop? I am alw ays on fixed pow er, the problem w ith removing the battery at 40% is that I w ould be vulnerable to pow er outages. With the battery still inside the laptop charged to 40% I
w ould be saving my battery, saving pow er and saving my data in the event of a main-pow er failure. Does anyone know if there is a softw are out there w hich could charge to 40% and
stop? If so, please let me know .

On November 24, 2010 at 11:21am

Patrick Woo wrote:


How frequent should I apply a full discharge to recalibrate the fuel guage?
Every 30 charges sound very frequent to me if your laptop alternate betw een battery pow er and fixed pow er many times a days.

On November 29, 2010 at 2:51pm

Andy wrote:
Frequent full discharges should be avoided w hen possible
and
A deliberate full discharge and recharge every 30 charges corrects this problem
How are these recommendations compatible? It is really safe to *completely* discharge the battery? Wouldnt it die after a single *full* discharge?

On December 2, 2010 at 7:22am

Mehper C. Palavuzlar wrote:


@David:
Follow this question on SuperUser.com:
Softw are to hold battery at 50% charge level
http://superuser.com/questions/217480/softw are-to-hold-battery-at-50-charge-level

On December 7, 2010 at 9:19pm

Dave wrote:
Does freezing cause dammage to the batery? Or does using the battery in a cold or frozen state cause the dammage? Can a battery be frozen allow ed to thaw and be fine?

On December 17, 2010 at 9:09pm

Andrew wrote:
@David
You do not w ant to leave your battery in your laptop even if w ould remain at 40% because your laptop generates quite a bit of heat from use w hich is harmful to the batteries. The lithium
batteries should be stored at 40% AND in a cool place.

On December 19, 2010 at 8:15pm

Phil wrote:
This is one of the articles that I w as reading about caring for your laptop batteries.

On December 24, 2010 at 7:30am

Carol Nemetz wrote:


I removed battery for a number of hours. Whn I replaced it the battery icon read"plugged in, not charging I have had this problem w ith not chargeing a number of times. After 4 attempts,
Gatew ay repaired it. The last time they replaced the motherboard and installed a new battery.All w as w ell until I removed he battery and replaced it

On December 25, 2010 at 5:21pm

Fede wrote:
Most of the time I use my laptop at w ork. I use it w ithout the battery and I keep it at 40%.
What I noticed is that if I put the battery again after a few days the charge had low ered to 30% for example.
So, If I the ideal storage is at 40% but after a few days the charge drops to 30%, how can you keep it stored at 40%?

On December 28, 2010 at 3:47pm

Daniel wrote:
Thank you for this infomation, people complain w ith the performance of their laptops, just maintain and look after your bleeming laptop!
Thanks to Battery University for this infomation

On December 30, 2010 at 10:08pm

Jaime Blanco wrote:


I have not seen that this question is answ ered so I w ill add my question to the queue. Is there an ideal rate of w hen to charge the battery ? eg. 40% ... or 70% ?? BTW With this
article I have finally understand how to use my battery thx!!! I w as living a lie.. and in the past I knew battery industry had evolved this years..

On January 1, 2011 at 8:32am

Gcat122 wrote:
The Verizon sales clerk insisted that I not leave my droid 2 on the charger for more than 4 hours or the battery w ould be damaged. I have trouble believing a new smartphone w ould be
dumb enough to kill batteries. Is he w rong or is the manufacturer trying to sell more batteries?

On January 6, 2011 at 9:06am

Ike wrote:
Gcat122, properly made Li-Ions should have built-in protection that prevents problems caused by overcharge. How ever, you may have heard about massive battery recalls in the recent
years due to quality problems causing overheating or even explosions - so his suggestion may have been related just in case caution.
Normally, a quality charger w ill notice w hen the battery is full and cease attempts to overload it. But itbeen proven that all chargers arent that smart, especially generic brand ones that
may apply charging methods unsuitable for Li-Ion type.

On January 6, 2011 at 6:22pm

Niall wrote:
w ould carging my battery w hilst using it do any damage to it? this appears to be the only information i cannot find on lithium ion battaries

On January 10, 2011 at 9:17am

Mike wrote:
I just purchased a 20v professional cordless drill/driver (Craftsman brand) from Sears at 60% off the original price. This item w as marked clearance. Ive been congratulating myself on
a great find until I read this article. I immediately checked the date on the tw o lithium-ion batteries enclosed and found it to be 10 2006. I think I know now w hy they have been reduced to
clear. Ive charged up the batteries and they seem fine, but I havent used the drill yet so dont know w hat performance and battery life to expect. I have to assume that these items have
been sitting in a w arehouse or store uncharged for over four years.
What remaining life should I expect from a four-year old battery that has never been charged? Should I consider returning the drill?

On January 11, 2011 at 1:12pm

Tad wrote:
@Mike - if the drill carries the standard Craftsman forever w arranty, you can alw ays return the drill if the batteries prove to be unsatisfactory.
Lately my Blackberry 9700 has taken to pow ering itself off suddenly w hen the battery gets dow n around 1 bar, before it even reaches the yellow or red part of the gauge. This may
be due to my recently acquired habit of charging it every night.
Ill let it run dow n a few times and see if that makes a difference.

On January 12, 2011 at 5:23am

Michael wrote:
Great info!
One comment - a couple of your graphs are the w rong w ay around - the convention is to have the independent variable on the x-axis. So, in the last graph, you should be reading off the
number of cycles on the y-axis, against each charge/discharge rate on the x-axis. (The number of cycles is *dependent* on the charge/discharge rate).

On January 13, 2011 at 8:50am

dewey hodo wrote:


Does the above care, use and charging instruction apply equally to EV lithium batteries?
What special care must be given for Li batteries hundreds of times larger and more pow erful than laptops?

On January 13, 2011 at 2:31pm

John wrote:
Hi, great article, but I have one question. What about Li-Polymer batteries, does all this apply to them also or are there some significant differences?

On January 17, 2011 at 1:19pm

Victor wrote:
My battery cant backup anymore, and I only get to have Pow er for 6hours a day. and Im a Programmer. Getting another is just too expensive so how can I make it w ork again! Im using a
UPS for a LAPTOP.

On January 21, 2011 at 7:53am

Cobalt wrote:
Keep the lithium-ion battery cool. Avoid a hot car. For prolonged storage, keep the battery at a 40% charge level.
So i need charge battery every time w hen battery indicator is at 60%???

On January 21, 2011 at 10:02am

Ashley wrote:
This is an aw esome article, it explains everything in detail and is backed up by evidence, making all the information very credible.
How ever, I still do not grasp the definition of discharge. Does it mean letting the battery run out; let it completely die?
My phone has been having battery issues I hope I can fix it!

On January 21, 2011 at 10:33am

Hilda Smith wrote:


Thank you for this very helpful information.

On January 23, 2011 at 1:28pm

Royce wrote:
I stored my lit. battery from my laptop to increase battery life. After six months I reinstalled the battery and it w ill not charge. Was storing it six months too long?

On January 24, 2011 at 4:11pm

Alex wrote:
It depends on the state of charge w hen you stopped using it. If it is almost completely discharged 6 month might be too long.

On January 24, 2011 at 4:14pm

Alex wrote:
You should try leaving the battery 1 - 2 days plugged in, it might recover

On January 24, 2011 at 4:29pm

Alex wrote:
If it doesnt seem to have charged after 1 - 2 days, it has to be taken apart and the cells have to be charged directly before the protection circuits. A pow er supply that can provide
constant current is needed, for ex a lab pow er supply. The voltage should be set to the voltage w ritten on the battery and the max current should be set to 5% of total capacity. Obviously
the polarity has to be connected correctly and the charging process should be left alone for aw hile until the constant current disappears. After that the battery should be placed in the
laptop and it should charge normally.

On January 25, 2011 at 8:22am

Alex wrote:
And, theres another thing. if w hen you try to pow er the laptop w ith the bad battery the lights flash as if it tells you that the battery is bad that it might never charge and it also might not
solve the problem charging the cells before the protection circuits inside. It is best to try something else before you charge the cells separately. after taking the battery apart disconnect all
w ires from the cells that go to the protection circuits. it is easier to desolder them from w here they are near the cells rather than from th pcb, but this might not be the case for all the
batteries. After desoldering all w ires leave it like that for 10 seconds than resolder the w ires back to w here they w ere. you should connect the battery into the laptop and try to charge
it. In a similar situation it w orked for me. Through this method you cut the pow er from the protection circuits and it resets some parameters related to the battery monitoring

On January 26, 2011 at 5:32am

Mescoda wrote:
I have translated this useful article into Chinese on my blog
If anyone get interest in it,you can visit
http://mescoda.com/2011/01/how -to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries/

On January 28, 2011 at 6:55pm

ptah wrote:
Interesting to note that some laptop computers have the battery pack protruding from the main case. That may be intended to reduce exposure to heat released by other components.

On January 31, 2011 at 6:55pm

DickL wrote:
I w ould like to know w hat is different, if anything, about charging and discharging Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries - relatively new chemistry in the Lithium family of batteries.
Folks at Batteryspace.com claim much increased number of cycles (>2000) if managed conservatively. Any observations or recommendations?
- DickL

On February 4, 2011 at 3:04pm

Ty wrote:
Excellent information on Li-Ion laptop batteries. Approximately 500 charge and discharge cycles is pretty accurate. How ever, some companies claim 1000 or more. It all depends on the
quality and grade of the battery cells. Cheap battery cells w ill not last very long. Whereas a w ell build battery w ith high quality cells should have a normal lifespan, given its not put in
abusive environments.
-Ty
w w w .ebatts.com

On February 7, 2011 at 9:13am

suman wrote:
w at about over charging?
do w e hav problem in doping it

On February 8, 2011 at 9:11am

jean wrote:
w hat does discharge mean?

On February 11, 2011 at 4:36pm

steve wrote:
Im w ondering w hat the effect of freezing is on the lithium ion batteries in my Makita cordless driver/drill. Working in the w inter in Iow a, freezing temperatures are common at w orksites.
Will frequent freezing reduce the total number of charge/discharge cycles Ill get out of my batteries over the life of the tool?

On February 21, 2011 at 12:49am

Prem Dissanayake wrote:


Its great place to study about battery as w ell as other related accessories.Good luck!

On February 23, 2011 at 7:26am

Pier Francis wrote:


Excellent info on batteries, thanks to Battery University

On February 25, 2011 at 3:53am

Andrew wrote:
I also w anted to express my gratitude on the information given about lithium based batteries. Thank you!

On February 25, 2011 at 3:14pm

Brandon wrote:
We have updated this article as of today February 25, 2011.

On February 28, 2011 at 1:59am

Rob Smith wrote:


I tried to fgure out how to handle longevity and the best solution so far is by Sony VAIO laptops. During normal use in office I put charge limit to 40% and batter never goes above that, if I
need to travel I simply increase it to 80% or 100%.
Capacity of battery remained constant for more than 2 years now , w hat might be due to such soft charging, but also due to quality of Sony batteries.
Dell Studio XPS has excellent utility w hich simply turned charging off w henever user w ishes.
So I keep charge level somew here around 50% and w henever I need laptop simply turncharging on.
IMO it should be standard on all laptops.

On March 1, 2011 at 11:13am

mike wrote:
Question: I w as told to leave the computer on at all times, just shut the lid. This w ill add to the life of the battery. Comments

On March 12, 2011 at 11:33am

genesis wrote:
people,please..do not take everything you read on internet as a must. w hat this ....article acctually tells you is: 1) it is not recomended to keep your battery plugged in w hen fully
charged for a long time periods.2)it is not neccessary to alw ays fully discharge the LI battery(you can charge it anytime to any%). 3)do not keep/operate your battery in an ow en.4) if you
plan not to use your battery for a long time, it is better to keep it half charged.
thats about it - everything else is just a .... masochism.

On March 12, 2011 at 12:00pm

gendersis wrote:
thanks genesis, i w ill do as you said, hopefully my battery w ill survive another year :D

On March 20, 2011 at 11:07am

Kevin wrote:
Aw some sightI have an Evo Shift and my battery gets up too 47 degrees w hile using it and sometimes noy slow ly? Sprint said that its ok? Please HELP!!!!!!

On March 23, 2011 at 3:44pm

SLy wrote:
****Tad w rote:
@Mike - if the drill carries the standard Craftsman forever w arranty, you can alw ays return the drill if the batteries prove to be unsatisfactory.****
COMPLETELY WRONG!!!
Craftman Hand Tools are lifetime. Cordless drills and other similar items are NOT lifetime.
The battery you bought has a 90 day w arranty. Same as the charger. The tool has a year w arranty.

On March 23, 2011 at 8:14pm

derp wrote:
Most of you are absolutely retarded, especially genesis. This article is not telling you to avoid putting your battery in an oven (or ow en as you so aptly put), but to instead avoid using the
laptop w hile on the pow er grid w ith the battery fully charged.
For all you derps out there (most of you, judging by your comments), this means that you should not keep the battery in the laptop w hile it is plugged in and you are using it. Laptops
generate heat (hurr durr) and since the battery is in the laptop (again, hurr durr), it is exposed to the heat, AND is kept constantly at full charge w hile plugged in. So, no, genesis, one
doesnt require an oven to expose your battery to heat (derp). Laptop internals regularly get to 60-70 degrees Celsius, w ell above the stated ideal temperature for batteries.
And I CANT believe one of you actually stored a laptop battery for SIX MONTHS to GAIN battery life. What a tard. Never using a battery w ill zap the pow er quickly.
Heres another thing. I left a laptop mostly plugged in for a year. It had VERY few discharges. Yet the battery lasted for only a 1/2 hour or so. So you tards be the judge as to w hether or
not keeping it plugged in w ith the battery installed leads to excess w ear.
As for actually using the battery (w hen not plugged in), just use it. Avoid full discharges and dont keep it in a hot area.
And for all you idiots w anting to magically make your depleted batteries w ork again: you are, as I mentioned, idiots. Everything has a lifespan. If youve had your battery for a w hile and
used it often, then guess w hat? Its old and used and you have to buy another one! YAY! HURR DURR!
And some derp mentioned people complaining about laptop performance: WTF are you talking about? Someone said that laptops function slow er w ithout the battery w hile on pow er, but
thats the only complaint I heard. Youre just a retard.
And someone here actually doesnt grasp the concept of a discharge. Are you serious? Look up the w ord. Good Lord. Mega tards.
Anyw ay, thanks everybody for decreasing my hope in humanity even more than previously. The internet does that quite often. Bye, retards.

On March 24, 2011 at 3:50pm

James wrote:
derp has a point.. and summarizes the article w ell
..but he came over as a an obnoxious braggart.

On March 27, 2011 at 10:02pm

Sagar wrote:
Great articleThanks for sharing

On March 30, 2011 at 4:09am

wezz wrote:
ive just bought a new cordless lithium drill/driver for DIY use only have i made a costly mistake? thanks w ezz

On March 30, 2011 at 6:58am

Paul wrote:
I have been looking at this and I think the data is a bit mis leading. Its not the number of re-charges that is important, but the total hours before the battery cannot get to above 70%.
I have been a geek and modelled this. If you take an average battery w ith a life of 600hrs in standby (the actual number dont matter here), then the total hours you get for the 100%DoD is
actually more than the 10%DoD. Yes, you get more recharges, but less total hours of use. From the table in the article, the 50% DoD gives you the most number of hours out of the battery
before it cannot get above 70%.
Its quality not quantity!
p.s. I havent read all the comments so I apologise if I am repeating w hat has been said!

On April 4, 2011 at 8:20am

Rich S. wrote:
The question is often asked: Should I disconnect my laptop from the pow er grid w hen not in use? Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary because once the lithium-ion
battery is full, a correctly functioning charger w ill discontinue the charge and w ill only engage w hen the battery voltage drops to a low level. Does this same thing apply to the phone
batteries?

On April 5, 2011 at 4:43am

Dave wrote:
Obviously, as derp left his ow n laptop mostly plugged in for a year, he is, by his ow n definition, a retard. What a jerk.

On April 7, 2011 at 7:37am

David wrote:
Table 2 states that for a full 100% discharge and full charge that the battery w ould last roughly 500 cycles, w hile one that has a 10% discharge and then charging back up to 100% w ould
last roughly 4,700 cycles. I hope I understand that table correctly, if not please help me understand it better.
My question is that given that I w ould follow the 10% discharge cycle w ould that not cause the battery to fail sooner since discharging 10% and then charging to 100% 4,700 times
w ould roughly equate to 470 100% discharges? Im sure I may be misunderstanding something, but I dont see how the numbers add up.

On April 7, 2011 at 8:18am

Paul wrote:
The key isnt the number of re-charges, it is the total hours you get out of the battery. So you are, approximately, right. Look at my comments above.
More re-charges does not necessarily mean more battery life. Just means more re-charges
Paul

On April 7, 2011 at 9:55am

David wrote:
Thank you Paul! That helped out greatly. I w ill include my findings doing similar calculations here:
Total capacity: 100 mAh
Dod

Cycles Total Hours of use

Formula (capacity * Dod) * Cycles

100%

500

50,000

(100 * 1.00) * 500

50%

1,500

75,000

(100 * 0.50) * 1,500

25%

2,500

62,500

(100 * 0.25) * 2,500

10%

4,700

47,000

(100 * 0.10) * 4,700

Please let me know if I used anything incorrectly.

On April 7, 2011 at 10:23am

Paul wrote:
It is close, but it does depend w hat they mean by 10% DoD
If you look at the graph (figure 1), it show s that each time you charge, the full level on the battery is a bit less each time. The failure is w hen it can only get to 70%. So lets say you
charge 2000 times, the batt may only charge to 80%, say. Then 10% DoD in this case w ill be (in your example) 10% of 80mAh. If they meant 10%DoD of the orginal batt capacity in each
charge, then you are right but I doubt it. I say that because if that is w hat they meant, then they could not have done a 100% DoD case (how can you discharge 100mAh w hen the batt is
only at 80mAh?)
So in your cals, w here you have (100*0.10)*4,700 the 100 needs to be a decreasing value for each charge e.g. (100*0.1) + (99.9*0.1) + (99.5*0.1) or similar
Does that make sense?
Paul

On April 7, 2011 at 11:18am

Ed Vim wrote:
Great article, thanks for w riting this up.
Regarding derps comments, interesting but its value greatly diminished by immaturity.

On April 8, 2011 at 9:21am

David wrote:
@Paul
Yes that makes sense. I w ould update the calculations to account for that but I have already had enough fun for the day.
Thank you for the response.

On April 8, 2011 at 6:01pm

Patrick B wrote:
I keep my laptop plugged in all the time at home to do w ork on. According to this article, it seems that by doing this, I am w earing out my battery prematurely. I take it the right thing to do
w ould be to let it partially discharge, then take it out of the unit until I need to use it on battery pow er. Am I right?

On April 9, 2011 at 3:04am

thomas 09789989648 wrote:


hi i am a laptop service enginear how to check battery ok or bad . and how to create one lithiyam ion battrey on charging pls tell me

On April 9, 2011 at 10:12am

GenericM wrote:
I hope my laptop never needs servicing even more now .

On April 10, 2011 at 8:49pm

elf- wrote:
I just bought a new battery for my Huaw ei Ascend cell phone I have let the battery drain completly out then gave it a full charge then let it die out and gave it a complete charge again. From
the reading above, If I w ant too prolong the battery life I should let it drain dow n to 50-60% battery life then put it on the charger? Or do I keep on letting it drain dow n to 10-15 % then put it
on the charger for 4 hours or until 100% charged? Please respond back thanks!

On April 11, 2011 at 3:33am

Paul wrote:
Based on the data they show in the paper, the 50% DoD seems to give you the longest batt life.
But I am not an expert, I am just analysing their data.

On April 22, 2011 at 9:36am

PAUL J. wrote:
Funny, if you paid $200 to read David Lindens Handbook of Batteries 3rd Edition it w ill tell you that lithium ion batteries have a good shelf life. Primary lithium does, but not Li-ion. This is
straight from Lindens $200 book:
TABLE 35.1 Advantages and Disadvantages of Li-ion Batteries
Advantages
Sealed cells; no maintenance required
Long cycle life

Disadvantages
Moderate initial cost
Degrades at high temperature

Broad temperature range of operation

Need for protective circuitry

Long shelf life


Low self-discharge rate
Rapid charge capability
High rate and high pow er discharge capability
High coulombic and energy efficiency
High specific energy and energy density
No memory effect

On April 22, 2011 at 9:58am

PAUL J. wrote:
Elf, it does not matter w ith Li-ion. Just charge it w henever you get a chance, but just so you know Li-ion is happiest around 40% state of charge.

On May 2, 2011 at 11:42pm

Mike wrote:
The question most raised is life. Our batteries utilize precision GPS on job sites. The manufacturer of the units is very attentive to detail as far as expansion w ith charging. They utilize a
gore valve to help w ith the hear w hen the batteries and components expand. How ever, the replacement batteries w e receive, w hich i believe are quality last almost half the time as the
original manufacturers batteries. Do you believe this to be a coincidence or quality factor.

On May 2, 2011 at 11:46pm

Mike wrote:
The question most raised is life. Our batteries utilize precision GPS on job sites. The manufacturer of the units are very attentive to detail as far as expansion w ith charging. They utilize
a gore valve to help w ith the heat w hen the batteries and components expand. How ever, the replacement batteries w e receive, w hich i believe are quality, last almost half the time as the
original manufacturers batteries. Do you believe this to be a coincidence or quality factor.

On May 3, 2011 at 6:17am

PAUL J. wrote:
There seems to be a lot of controversy on the subject of lithium-ion batteries and w hat you should do w ith them w hen you first receive them. The experts w ill tell you that there is no
conditioning needed w ith Li-Ion, how ever I have seen first hand experience w hich begs to differ.
I have seen proof time and time again that Li-Ion DOES benefit greatly from conditioning the battery by letting it discharge fully (until the device shuts itself dow n) and charging it 8-12
hours (repeat process) for the first 3-5 days.
That could solve your problem, or you might just be getting old batteries.
Next time you receive a new battery, try this method, I think you w ill be surprised.

On May 4, 2011 at 8:14am

Rob wrote:
@ Paul J
That could also be just dow n to the fact that this sort of cycling is used to calibrate the battery mater in some equipment - Apple Macs spring to mind here. So repeating this until your
battery is in peak form (usually 3 or 4 cycles) w ill keep updating the calibration values and hence give you the most accurate reading. This in turn w ill give the longest time before the
softw are of the device thinks the battery is nearly flat and shuts dow n to protect your information.
Anyw ay, thanks for the thread. Its amazing the amount of FUD that there is out there, not helped by the fact that most manufacturers are particularly vague w ith regards to their battery
care and handling instructions. They could all do w ith having an article similar to this, but specific to their particular battery, charger circuit and typical usage patterns, in their manual.

On May 8, 2011 at 1:29pm

danceswithbongs wrote:
Thanks for an informative article. Wasnt it nice of derp to drop by, making use all feel better about ourselves. Alw ays good to notice that mans inhumanity to man is hard w ired. I w ould
imagine derp could learn a bit from someone w ho is retarded, like how to treat others.
Again, great article, and first free thing Ive ever heard of from a university.
Can people still major in 9 volts?
Appreciate you droppin know ledge like Galileo dropped the orange!(see The Beastie Boys)
From the law offices of dancesw ithbongs, esq.

On June 2, 2011 at 3:25pm

INSAAN KHAN wrote:


CAN SOMEONE HELP ME?

I BOUGHT A NEW ASUS Eee PC 1008P and i am facing problem w ith my battry charging
my battery charges w ell w hen netbook pow er is off but w hen i sw itch the netbook on the battery light keeps on blinking and w indow s 7 tray show s at my battery is intermittently
charging and disconnecting.(that is the reason w hy my battery light is blinking..w hich w ould remain static if it is charging normally)

please helpor should i be needing to go the ASUS tech help?


thanks

On June 8, 2011 at 7:34am

Charge Me wrote:
Sooo, w hy is it of the dozen laptops Ive ow ned over the last ten years, that they still had less than 5% w ear after one year and less than 15% w ear after tw o years and kept them at
100% and had maybe 10-20 full discharges a year?

On June 14, 2011 at 7:47am

Marilyn wrote:
A few years ago a physicist friend explained to me that it doesnt matter how far you discharge the battery but once its on the charger it should be left on until the battery is fully charged.
My boyfriend (a chemist/scientist) says this is complete untrue w ith the current battery technology. He tends to charge his phone in short stints w here I tend to never attach to the
charger unless I can leave it long enough to fully charge. Any thoughts? (We both have the Samsung Galaxy S w hich is a great phone but a huge energy suck. I must recharge once a
day w hich I do at then end of the day until the morning.)

On June 15, 2011 at 6:49am

Paul J. wrote:
Your boyfriend is correct. Lithium Ion technology can accept a topping charge at any time and doe not require a full charge. I also have a Galaxy S and I charge it w henever I get a
chance. You should prime the battery the first few days though by draining it completely and charging completely. This w ill also help calibrate your phones battery meter to the new
battery.

On June 22, 2011 at 10:26am

Crusty wrote:
Derp is certainly a character. OK, hes douche. There, I said it. Anyone have any luck w ith freezing dead batteries and bringing them back to life? Some say it w orksIm skeptical. Im
trying it now w ith an HP dv7 battery (OEM HP from 9/2009) I guess it cant hurt. Besides, this monster 7lb laptop is lighter w ithout the battery. Works fine on straight AC.

On June 25, 2011 at 2:37pm

Alan Kanarbik wrote:


I appreciate the resourcefulness of the information you have provided here.
Another question has come to my mind regarding saving pow er on Li-ion batteries. Will it make no difference to plug the battery in and out w ith the laptop running on AC pow er or is
battery life saved by turning the computer off first for the sw itch betw een pow er sources?

On June 25, 2011 at 10:42pm

Crusty wrote:
My guess is if you are going to have your laptop plugged in most of the time, as in a large, say 17 desktop replacement type, it w ould be best to just remove the battery altogether. Such is
the case w ith my HP DV7 laptop w ith its beautiful 17.3 screen. Lugging around a nearly 8lb laptop (w ith battery installed) for any great distance w ill make a man pine for something much
smaller (and lighter!) Seriously, if youre leaving it at home or office most of the time, w hats the point?
Oh, and the freeze your dead battery thing I tried from another site? Well, unless it says Lazarus somew here on the label next to the P/N, this appears to be bunk. It w as w orth a try, I
guess. All you need is a dead battery and a freezer bag. . . . .

On June 30, 2011 at 9:57am

Niels-Erik Jensen wrote:


How many kWh do you have to get from the pow er supplier to get 100 kWh into the battery.
The heating up of the battery show s you have to tap (a lot, maybe) more kWh from the pow er supplier than the energy that is charged into the battery.
Same question for discharging a battery w hich also gets hot during de-charging.

On July 14, 2011 at 1:47pm

Colin Macdonald wrote:


I am thinking of buying an electric bike, but I go aw ay to Africa during the British w inter, so the battery w ould be stored unattended for six months each year. Is this going to be a
problem? Have you any advice?

On July 14, 2011 at 7:51pm

Marilyn wrote:
Thanks Paul, Ive started taking both of your advice and charging the phone w henever I have a charger available. I still find myself draining the battery before I find a charger, today it w as
too many birds and not enough pigs, but Im getting better. Phone is w ell primed based on my previous charging habits.

On July 15, 2011 at 7:10am

Gerge lopaz wrote:


Too much information, not specific, hard to find information that is relevent.

On July 18, 2011 at 7:58am

Walt Borntrager wrote:


I have found just the opposite of this data in multiple Li-ion applications. In both notebook computers and cell phones, Ive found that if I never recharge the battery unless it is fully
discharged, and then alw ays fully recharge it, I get years of full capacity. My first cell phone w ould run 13 to 14 days continuously per charge for nearly 10 years using this rule. (Then
communication protocols changed from analog to digital.

I had a notebook computer charging module w ith an intermittent connection at the output, charging a minute or so, then disconnecting and allow ing the computer to discharge a minute or
so, then charging a little In less than 1 day, the battery had no capacity - w ould not hold enough charge to hold up the computer for 10 seconds. The previous day it w ould pow er it for
nearly 2 hours. The battery did not undergo any shock - the computer w as sitting on a table.
Ive found the same for Ni-Cad (obviously) and also NiMH.
My personal experience in using rechargeable batteries for the last 20 years consistently agrees w ith this rule.

On July 23, 2011 at 1:27am

Jeff Simon wrote:


Maybe I am the only one missing one aspect of the number of cycles verses depth of discharge: if you only get 500 cycles w ith 100% discharge, as compared to 4700 cycles w ith 10%
discharge, those cycles are not equivalent.
That is, the 100% discharge got 10 times the pow er ouput as compared to the 10% depth. If assuming useful w ork w as done in each depth, then in fact getting 500 cycles actually gets a
bit more w ork than 4700 cycles of only 10% the depth.
This seems to me to say that the depth of discharge is much less important than you w ould initially think from just looking at the number of cycles alone, as the amount of output is actually
slightly more under the deep cycle, but for practical purposes is close to equivalent.
That is, unless I am missing something that everybody else is seeing.

On July 25, 2011 at 3:53am

Jim H wrote:
I have a new netbook and w ant to preserve the Li Ion battery as long as possible. I have no occasion to need to use the netbook on the battery, but I may someday. Ive had the netbook
about a month and have not installed the battery. Is this a good strategy? Should I charge the battery about half w ay and put it in the fridge sealed to prevent moisture incursion

On July 25, 2011 at 6:19am

Paul J. wrote:
My suggestion to you w ould be to read the article instead of just the comments. It seems like only a few people actually took the time to read it, and everyone else w ants answ ers w ithout
doing the reading. I have read the w hole book Batteries in a Portable World and I w ould recommend it to anyone w ho w ould like to have a better understanding of batteries and the
characteristics of each chemistry.

On July 25, 2011 at 6:22am

Paul J. wrote:
Jeff, I think it is just stated to be equivalent for practical purposes because it is close enough.

On July 25, 2011 at 8:21am

Jeff Simon wrote:


Paul, yes w hat I am saying is that they are practically equivalent. But the article seems to imply that very small cycles is far better.

On July 26, 2011 at 6:35pm

Walt Borntrager wrote:


Paul, I read the article and am saying that my 20+ years of experience w ith rechargeable batteries disagrees w ith one primary implication: The article implies that many partial cycles w ill
allow the battery to keep full capacity longer. The memory effect that plagued NiCad chemistry and supposedly is not present in Li-Ion, is the effect that, if the battery is only partially
discharged, then recharged, it w ill soon only have the capacity to w hich it is used, i.e., if you only discharge it 10% and then recharge it each time, after a number of cycles, the total mAH
available w ill only be about 10% of its original capacity. My experience has found this true of NiCad, NiMH, and Li-Ion, although Li-Ion is the most forgiving. As I stated before, a faulty
charger connection caused very small cycles on my last Li-Ion and it destroyed the capacity in days. I w ould certainly not recommend discharging any of these chemistries small amounts
betw een recharges. Ive seen this habit destroy capacity very prematurely numerous times.
Most of todays notebook computers have a hysteresis built into the charge cycle such that, if you fully charge it, no charging w ill occur until you have intentionally discharged it to some
extent. This allow s you to keep it plugged in for periods of time w ithout excessive short charge cycles. Some also have the option to turn the charger off until it is really necessary at a
low remaining charge. This is a clue that notebook computer manufacturers agree w ith me on this aspect.

On July 27, 2011 at 7:40am

Paul J. wrote:

Walt, I agree w ith you that Li-Ion doesnt alw ays behave exactly as indicated in the article. My comment about reading the article w as not pointed at you or others w ho are here to
discuss findings and experiences. It w as for the people w ho just come here for free answ ers w ithout putting forth any effort to actually learn w hat the article is teaching.
That said, bear in mind w hen you read this article that it w as published in 2001. Lithium-Ion technology has advanced and is better understood now than it w as in 2001.
Isidor Buchmann has released a third edition just a couple months ago that I cant w ait to get my hands on.

On July 28, 2011 at 3:10am

Sandeep wrote:
Is it really a good practice to keep the charger on for my laptop even after my battery has reached 100%(fully charged)? If not does this have an implication on the life of the battery and
by how much? Is energy w asted in the process becuase the charger tries to keep pumping into an already full battery and if so w hat is the loss like?

On July 28, 2011 at 5:42pm

Walter Borntrager wrote:


Sorry Paul - didnt notice that this w as an old study. Good point - read and think through the article before asking a question that w as already answ ered.
I tend to spout off a bit over this subject because of all the hype that Li-Ion has beat the memory effect syndrome. I havent found a solid chemistry yet that has
(By solid, I mean this primarily excludes lead acid, w hich thrives on a continuous full charge, w ithin limits, and can be destroyed by a full discharge.)
Thanks for the comments
Walt

On August 1, 2011 at 3:16am

NeilP wrote:
Jim H,
If you have still not plugged your batteryinto the laptop, then DONT.
I have heard, but cant confirm, that the batteries, factory fresh, are chemically stabilised, somehow . The first charge cycle or tw o disapates this stabilisation, hence the need to cycle the
battery a few times to get full capacity
Colin, Ref your E bike battery. That totally depends onthe chemistry of the pack, It could be Sealed Lead Acid, or a LiFePO4 or?? Check out the Endless Sphere E bike forum for an
answ er,once you know battery chemistry

On August 8, 2011 at 6:23am

Retxirb wrote:
First let me thank you for this great article and this w ebsite, very informative. I recently bought new netbook and Ive been charging the battery for around 40% to 80%. I charge it up 40%
w hen I w ont be using the battery for a long period of time. I pull out the battery w henever I have access to pow er outlet.
Charging the battery w hile the computer is running may cause the battery serious stress because of heat. But I occasionally charge my netbook around 7pm w hen the temperature is cool
so I can w atch the netbook w hen its reached 80%.
I know that everything even computer battery has an end. If I reach that point, I w ould dissect the battery, ebay some Li-Ion and then solder it to place. That w ould save me a lot of bucks.

On August 9, 2011 at 6:36am

NeilP wrote:
Jim H,
If you have still not plugged your batteryinto the laptop, then DONT.
I have heard, but cant confirm, that the batteries, factory fresh, are chemically stabilised, somehow . The first charge cycle or tw o disapates this stabilisation, hence the need to cycle the
battery a few times to get full capacity
Colin, Ref your E bike battery. That totally depends onthe chemistry of the pack, It could be Sealed Lead Acid, or a LiFePO4 or?? Check out the Endless Sphere E bike forum for an
answ er,once you know battery chemistry

On August 19, 2011 at 9:20am

Fabrice wrote:
Paul, note:
On February 25, 2011 at 3:14pm
Isidor w rote:
We have updated this article as of today February 25, 2011.
Still, I w ish he w ould address the point raised about battery utility (i.e., total pow er delivered) vs. number of charge cycles. It is a good example of how data presentation can define - and
limit - our ability to understand w hat is really important.

On August 23, 2011 at 5:32am

John C. Crowther wrote:


Re. Charging / Discharging of Lithium Batteries - and useful life of the battery
The Article and many of the Comments, as w ell as stressing prevention of overheating, (in a hot computer or a hot car) seem to indicate that length of battery life is a matter of how much

you discharge the battery, and how often you charge it. So it can take 500 cycles of total discharge (100% discharged to 0%) or 4700 cycles of 10% discharge (100% charged
dischragd to 90%). [see exchange betw een David & Paul on April 07, 2011] They agree that the amount of w ork done by the Li-battery is pretty much the same w hatever approach you
take.
Many of the comments focus on avoiding overcharging - and some recommend keeping the Li-battery around 40% - 50% discharged, and topping it up frequently. Sounds like f you dont
use it, you lose it
So far so good. But I have a confusion w hich is (unless I overlooked something - w ant to avoid a flame from derp). I am concerned about undercharging a Li-Battery. This concern
relates to a Lenovo Thinkpad system, but I imagine it could apply to many other Laptops.
I have a ThinkPad W520, and since the mains adapter is a brick 17cm x 8cm x 3.5cm w eighing 750g (6.7"x 3.2 x 1.3 w eighing 1.64 lbs) I figured from suggestions on thinkpads.com
Support Community (http://forum.thinkpads.com/view topic.php?p=628326) that I can equally use a smaller mains Adapter also
available from Lenovo.
The Brick has an output of 170W, 20V charging at 8.5A
The smaller versions have an output 90W and charge at 4.5A
so accordingly I bought a Lenovo 41R4494 Ultraslim Adapter w hich is 11.5 cm x 7cm x 1.7cm and w eighs 377g (4.5 x 2.75 x 0.67 w eighing under 12 ounces). I felt very pleased.
But now my ThinkPad is nagging me each time I sw itch on or close dow n:
ncorrect AC adapter is attached.
This AC adapter may not provide enough pow er to your Thinkpad. Please reconnect the proper AC adapter.
i.e they mean I am ndercharging the battery, right?
(Thats true, if I leave the UltraSlim attached w hile I w ork, the battery runs dow n.
Question: But is that bad? Maybe it runs dow n more slow ly, than if the UktraSlim Adapter is *not* attached? Can it damage the control circuits in the battery or the mains adapter?
My compromise w ork routine uses the Li-battery for my w orking day, and I charge it overnight.
1. I hibernate the computer - w ith remaining charge in the battery ca. 30% - leaving it plugged in to the UltraSlim charger overnight.
2. In the morning I unplug the mains adapter, before w aking up the computer (thereby avoiding the nag).
Its back to 98% - 100% - show ing 8 or 9 hours w ork available in the battery (the 9-cell)
During the day, I use the computer on battery, in sporadic intervals of half to 1 hours. Betw een each w ork interval I close the lid to hibernate. I rarely finish the day w ith less than 30%
charge in the battery.
So now to my main questions:
A. is this routine harmful for the life of a Li-Battery?
B. if not, w hy does Lenovo nag me for using the 4.5A mains adapter?
(it charges OK w hen I am not using the computer).
Many thanks for any insight or light the Team can shed on this subject.
Regards = John

On August 28, 2011 at 11:19am

BIKIE wrote:
Hello I w onder if I put my computer w ithout the battery charge and peude after I put my battery during charging is there a risk that the battery or the computer gate

On September 23, 2011 at 12:50am

Dee wrote:
The ow ners of this site deserve praise. great w ork and solid information.

On September 25, 2011 at 1:32am

Ashfaq wrote:
hi
I heard the battery life reduces if w e keep the charger plugged-in (charing) after the battery is 100% - is it true?

On September 25, 2011 at 2:25am

banmeet singh wrote:


After discharge the battery should be fully charged back because
1. Charging back to 70% restore the life
2.Prolonged discharge state of the plate causes sulphation
3. Partial charging after deep discharge is also causes sulphation
4.,Both B & C

On October 10, 2011 at 6:05am

Peppe wrote:
Hi,
I find this article very interesting. With the aim of trying to put it in practice by moving to a more sound maintenance of my Li-ion batteries, I w as quickly listing them in my mind: I ve Li-Ion
batteries on my notebooks (Asus and MacBook Air), my tw o photo-camera, my videocamera, my mobile phone.

So, tw o main insight I w ant to apply: 1) never leave a li-ion battery inactive for too long time (i.e. months), but keep electrons move from time to time; 2) store the battery at the best
possible conditions, i.e.: low temperature, low humidity, about 40% of charge.
I should have no problems w ith mobile phones and notebooks, as I use them everyday so keeping them at about the charge level I w ant is something I can somew ay control (plug/unplug
them appropriately). The only problem is the Mac w hich heats often and theres no w ay to remove the battery if I w ant to give it some relief.
The real problems are w ith the photo/video camera: I dont use them everyday, sometimes I dont use them for a few months. How can I simultaneously apply both insights ?
Suppose I charge them to some 40% (difficult to control, at least w ith the photo-cameras, w hile the Sony Videocam has a progress bar), and then I remove from the devices and leave
them apart. I then go to re-charge them after 1 month (insight 1). How much charge can they loose in 1-month ? I imagine few enough so that to bring them back to 40% I should leave
them plugged in 10 minutes ?
Is this something sound and w orkable ?
Because if not, then I should charge them more and then artificially use the devices intensely to make them discharge the battery again at about 40%. Thats because I dont know if theres
any universal charger/discharger that I can use to control how much charge/discharge I w ant to apply to a li-ion battery before I store them.
All this is so much easier w ith the Ni-MH Hybrid batteries (used in strobes for example) for w hich Ive bought a Maha Pow erex MH-C9400 charger/discharger and every few w eeks I run
a Refresh&Analyze; cycle specifically designed for optimal storage of the batteries (then, every few months I run another stronger program to fully re-generate them).
Peppe

On October 17, 2011 at 1:40am

Mr.Milcho wrote:
Thanks to Battery University for this information.

On October 18, 2011 at 6:41am

Cedric wrote:
The table show s numbers of cycles for different DoD.
But does 50% DoD mean cycling the charge betw een 50% charge and 100% ?
Given w hat the article says, w ould it not be best to cycle charge betw een 10%-60% for example ? (avoid full charge to not have high voltage in the battery) ?
And w hat I w ould like to know is w hat is best (ex. during w orking hours, at my desk) ?? :
- let the laptop/phone plugged, so w ith battery near 100%, but almost not used (except for peak pow er use, such as in phones for some radio communications).
- Or only plug sometimes, maintaining charge beetw een 20%-80%. In this case w e have low er voltage, but the battery is much more in use, enduring more (partial) cycles.
Note that for phone, they w ont w ork w ith battery pulled-off. I w ish it could be set up to only charge to a partial charge (ex 75%).

On October 20, 2011 at 12:05pm

Tom wrote:
Very Useful

On October 21, 2011 at 9:23am

Andrew wrote:
Hi - I have read this forum over various times and have seen the question can Lithium Ion batteries be restored/saved? asked a number of times. Often the discussion leads in tlo
technical descriptions but no clear answ er
Once they no longer hold a charge, is there anything I can do to practically revive a lithium ion battery or is is straight to the garbage dump?
its just that i have a very large pile of, w hat w ere, high quality battery packs and w ould like to know if i can ever derive an practical use for them? ...beyond being paper w eights?
i just figure that these 14.4v, 95Wh unite cost a bundle and certainly their must be a w ay to restore themno?
please appreciate that w hile mechanically advanced, in the battery w orld Im very much the lay person

On October 22, 2011 at 4:31am

Sergey Verlinski wrote:


Could you please explain: w hich mechanical parameters describes aging of batteries? And second question: how Youngs modulus of Li batteries changes depend of temperature.
Thanks in advance.

On October 22, 2011 at 8:52pm

Michael Nolting wrote:


I just w ant to know if keeping my laptop w ith li batteries connected to the AC charger is destroying my batteries.
I replaced my battery because it w ould not hold a charge in June and now it behaves very erratically.

On October 23, 2011 at 8:00am

mekong_nam wrote:
w ell.The information that you give is different from users manual of cellphone company. They said that user should full discharge, empty their battery before recharging to keep battery
lasting longer. All sellers said that users should charge their battery 8 hours for first 3 times to maximize the capacity of battery.

On October 26, 2011 at 2:15am

Clement Lee wrote:


My Portable DVD is using Li-Polymer rechargeable battery. It is about 1.5years old. Now the battery sw elled and the charge capacitive drop seriously.
Why the battery sw ell ?
Is it dangerous to keep on charge and discharge it ?

On October 27, 2011 at 12:13pm

resg wrote:
My mobile accepts charging both using AC adapter or USB port. Using the USB w ill apply a slow er charge as stated in the ow ners manual. Question is: is the USB charge less stressful
than the one w ith AC adapter? Is it better for the battery at all?

On October 27, 2011 at 9:09pm

Martin wrote:
So does anybody know if this article has been updated from 2001 to include more recent info?
As far as my logic goes then at least in 2011, its ok to keep your laptop plugged in w ith the battery attached, because
1. if you charge to 100% and keep to AC on the charger is intelligent enough not to really start charging the battery again until it naturally drops to about 95%
2. w hile on AC the laptop does not draw pow er from the battery (source Dell homepage)
You have to keep in mind though to discharge it / charge it once in a w hile (from this page here it seems the best is to let it go to about 25%?).
Only if your laptop gets very hot w hile using it on AC, is removing the battery a good idea as a hot laptop w ill also naturally heat up the battery (remove the battery and touch it, should
give you an idea). This, as I understand, w ill make the battery loose its capacity more quickly.

On October 30, 2011 at 1:48pm

David Jones wrote:


Ive just finished reading the article and all comments. Not until nearly the last comment did I learn that the article w as w ritten in 2001. I scrolled back up and found no date before or after
the article. My closest clue w as w hen the comments began in 2010. My fault for no thorough research of the source. I simply Googled how to care for Lithium Ion batteries. I must say
that I appreciate the intelligent comments, especially Paul and Walter. Many thanks for this information. My Toshiba laptop and cell phone batteries w ill serve me longer and stronger.

On October 30, 2011 at 4:36pm

megan wrote:
i left my phone in outside and i fount it everything w orks fine but not less than 5 seconds after i turn it on it says battery is to hot pow ering off??? does anybody know w ht tht means ???

On November 1, 2011 at 3:48pm

Ted Seifert wrote:


How do I store my lithium batters for the w inter, I use them in my yard tools. I w ill not be using them for about 4 to 5 month.

On November 1, 2011 at 6:32pm

cristovian wrote:
Can a battery, namely Li-ion be charged and discharged at the same time,w ithout a disruption in the output. The battery pack has tw o terminals one input and the other one an output.

On November 12, 2011 at 7:30am

bargainsbob@gmail.com wrote:
I just bought a Craftsman 20 v Li-Ion Professional drill (display model). When I got it home I tried to charge it and the charger indicated that it w as defective and refused to give it a charge.
So I stuck it in the freezer for a short w hile and then it charged ok.
Does anyone know w hy this happened?
Does anyone know if the pack is good or should I return the drill to Sears.
Thanks for any replies

On November 23, 2011 at 9:38am

Zubair Shahid wrote:


Hi! I have a dell inspiron 1520 laptop. I have a question. If i use maximum time laptop on ac state although my battery is full so is it harmful for my laptop or my battery plz guide me

On November 27, 2011 at 1:16am

HHAH wrote:
very helpful, thanks very much

On December 2, 2011 at 12:10pm

brian wrote:
Laptops get hot w hen turned on especially bigger ones w hen the CPU and video cards are processing a lot of data. It can be detrimental w hen turned on 24/7 as the battery also
maintains a 100% charge. Placing laptops on blankets or beds can block the vents and overheat it further. Fabric is also a good insulator. If laptop batteries are protected from excessive
heat w hile running, w ouldnt the service life last much longer.
The advantage of Li-ion is that it is light. I prefer NiMH because apparently, they dont age as fast w hen not in use and they dont have that explosion risk.
mAh can be a bit misleading because it does not equal Wh. Wh is equal to V x Ah. So it seems if you connect cells in series, you find the Wh of each cell before adding it.

On December 5, 2011 at 1:44am

Ray Wells wrote:


I have a Samsung Galaxy, and left it charging overnight using the USB port of my HP Mini, w hich w as plugged in the w hole time. In the morning, the phone w as good, but the laptop battery
w as 0% and has not w orked since. My theory is the USB port stayed pow ered w hile the laptop cut its ow n charger off for some reason. Before this, the laptop battery w as doing fine.

On December 5, 2011 at 9:35pm

Katy wrote:
Well from first hand know ledge the quickest w ay to kill your Lithium Ion battery is to let it go completely dead. Another thing is to leave it in the car over night in the cold. Just trying to help
so you guys dont make the same mistake.

On December 12, 2011 at 6:48am

Guillaume wrote:
@Sandeep
If you intend to use your laptop charged in for an extended period of time, remove the battery from it at 40% capacity.
You should not keep the battery on the laptop. The laptop w ill keep charging the battery as soon as it losses a little capacity and w ill eventually reduce the battery life expectancy.

On December 12, 2011 at 6:53am

Guillaume wrote:
So if I understand the Table 2 correctly, the optimal capacity to charge a Li-ion battery is 50% ?
100% * 500 cycles = 500 times full capacity
50% * 1500 cycles = 750 times full capacity
25% * 2500 cycles = 625 times full capacity
10% * 4700 cycles = 470 times full capacity
Did I miss something ?

On December 17, 2011 at 1:04pm

taz wrote:
Dont listen to these people thats crazy there saying if u store ur battery in ur fridge at 0c your battery w ill only lose 2% per year? So i can store my lithuium battey for 10 years and lose
only 20% capacity? LOL

On December 18, 2011 at 3:51pm

Mike McMahon wrote:


My cell phone battery is Li-Ion 3.7 vdc. My USB output is 4.98 vdc. Is the 4.98 v going to significantly degrade the life of my battery?

On December 22, 2011 at 5:14am

Ray Wells wrote:


The underlying issue is how humans should behave in order to handle technology. Well, guess w hat, thats backw ards. Technology should behave in a w ay that humans can deal w ith.
Assume they are all retards if you like, but expect them to: 1/ Leave rechargeable devices plugged in most of the time, 2/ Leave the battery in place w hen in use, regardless of being
plugged in. 3/ Store things in a hot vehicle w hen convenient. 4/ Need a clear indication w hen a battery needs replacing. Like everything else, battery technology w ill evolve by natural
selection. Utility and economics.

On December 22, 2011 at 5:24am

Ray Wells wrote:


I liked the original article, gives a good analysis of the challenges facing the industry. There w ill probably alw ays be 101 things to avoid doing w ith any battery technology.

On December 30, 2011 at 11:14pm

Du Roi wrote:

I have a Nokia N70 Me for several years (may be 4 or 5) w ith a Li-Ion (BL-5C) battery, w hat i use to do is to charge 100 %, and use phone until the battery is full discharge. My BL-5C is in
perfect condition i assure you. This is my ow n experience w ith a Li-Ion phone battery, and i think this contradict a little beat some of this theories. I hope this help in a w ay or another.
Happy New Year for all !!!

On January 2, 2012 at 7:35am

Ray Pipkin wrote:


@ Jeff Simon, w ho w rote:
Maybe I am the only one missing one aspect of the number of cycles verses depth of discharge: if you only get 500 cycles w ith 100% discharge, as compared to 4700 cycles w ith 10%
discharge, those cycles are not equivalent.
That is, the 100% discharge got 10 times the pow er ouput as compared to the 10% depth. If assuming useful w ork w as done in each depth, then in fact getting 500 cycles actually gets a
bit more w ork than 4700 cycles of only 10% the depth.

You are correct in your observation, but you should have taken it one step farther. Using the data of Table 2 w hich gives the number of cycles to 70% capacity as a function of depth of
discharge, one can derive the relative amount of total energy extracted (a dimensionless quantity) from a Li-ion cell as a function of DoD:
100% DoD yields 500 units of energy from a Li-ion cell over its useful life;
50% DoD provides 750 units;
25% DoD provides 625 units; and
10% DoD provides 470 units.
The data in Table 2 indicate that recharging w hen the capacity reaches 50% is optimal over the other three options.

On January 2, 2012 at 9:50pm

Inpulpded wrote:
You can think of your computers registry like the brain of your computer. As such, it stores facts not only on every program that your computer has set uped at any given time, it also
tends to keep information from programs that you Formerly take aw ayd. This can be a important problem for PC ow ners and is w hy its imperative for computer users to use a free
registry cleaner.
When you set up softw are on your computer, some important records are stored inside your computers registry. How ever, w hen you eliminate or unset up softw are, sometimes those
data remain inside your registry. Maybe the softw are w as poorly w ritten or your computer had a hard time unset uping the softw are properly. In either case, the end-result is that you
have information in your registry that are no longer needed.
<a >advanced system care torrent</a>
cleans your computers registry. Registry cleaners get rid of outdated and errant registry entries that can cause PC slow dow n, error messages and even softw are crashes. serious
registry problems can even result in your computer becoming unbootable. So, by employing a registry cleaning tool, you can w ork to eliminate these PC slow dow ns and avoid future
problems due to a bloated registry.

On January 8, 2012 at 3:56am

Deyan wrote:
I have ow ned an Acer Aspire laptop w ith a Li-ion battery for 4 and a half years now . I use it predominantly on AC pow er and NEVER take the battery out. My battery now still has 86.9%
of its initial capacity. Any comments? derp, w hat do you think?

On January 17, 2012 at 4:21am

Eric wrote:
If you look at table 2, it only says the number of cycles, w hich is irrelevant here. If w e have a charger ready and need to know w hen to charge to prolong life, you cant read it from the
table directly. If I fully use the battery until its empty (100% DoD) you have to compare that to 10 cycles discharging to 10% DoD, because thats fulfilling the same usage; any other
comparison is useless. So looking at these four values, the 25% DoD seems to be the best, but more values w ould be helpful.

On January 18, 2012 at 1:58am

jessiefister wrote:
dont charge your battery untiil it is used up.
more ideas please click:
http://w w w .batterymag.co.uk

On January 20, 2012 at 3:26pm

Luke Patrick wrote:


I w ork research and development and have tested lithium-ion cells for years. Here are some points I have learned on lithium ion:
0. If a battery is in a device, the device alw ays has some sort of battery management system. Full discharge (to 0 volts) should not be possible and does cause irreparable damage. full
discharge to about 2.7V (0% state of charge) is normal.
1. Storage w ill not rejuvenate or recover capacity.
2. If you need to store long term, store it at 50% charge. This reduces self discharge and/or active material degradation.
3. Freezing can damage a cell by causing dendrites (crystalization) in the electrolyte components and piercing seperator or damaging material bonds.
4. The low er the operating temperature - the slow er the ion exchange.

The higher the temperature - the higher the material degradation. Room temp is best.
6. Once in a w hile, discharge the battery until the device cuts it off, fully charge it and leave it on the charger for a short time. This moves as many ions as possible from one electrode to
the other keeping them free to move instead of stubbornly stuck.
7. Remember different companies make different formulations of Lithium ion and Li-polymer that behave differently like High pow er, High capacity, long life ... there is alw ays a trade off.

On January 24, 2012 at 5:23pm

shane wrote:
charge my battery

On January 27, 2012 at 2:44pm

Karen wrote:
I just moved to a new office. Since moving my cell phone battery discharges (totaly- phone w ill not turn on) after about 3 hrs in the office w ith no use. It has never done this and now
does it daily. There are several radars operating w ithin 1/2 mile. Could they be causing this? Tempature is cool and humidity is about 20%. The person w ho had the office before me
said it did the same to her. It does not affect my IPad or Laptop. What could cause this and Is this damaging my battery? Thanks

On January 30, 2012 at 5:05am

BigMart wrote:
I am even more confused now than w hen I started (not difficult!). I used to use my Acer 5715Z series laptop battery running it off the mains all the time, w here practicable. Now I let it
virtually fully discharge and then fully recharge. I now believe that it is w rong
So I am to let it discharge to 50% and then recharge it back to 70% ???
Is it okay to run the laptop w ithout the battery inside?
Please help a simpleton !!

On January 31, 2012 at 9:15am

Guillaume wrote:
@BigMart
You w ant to run the laptop w ithout the battery if you can. Dont leave the battery in the laptop w hen you are connected on the 120 Vca. A poor battery charger w ill reduce your battery
life w ith an bad charging method.
As it w as said earlier, the optimal charge level is around 50% of the battery capacity. You dont w ant to go crazy w ith your laptops charge level. I suggest you to use the laptop betw een
40-100% of your battery capacity and then recharge it.

On January 31, 2012 at 10:22am

BigMart wrote:
Thank you Guillaume for your comments.
I am afraid you are bit too technical for me! What is 120 Vca ? The battery charger is w ithin the laptop.
So I charge it up 50%, ie w hen it indicates 50% left. So w hat is 40-100% then?
As you can see I am so confused !!

On January 31, 2012 at 10:39am

BigMart wrote:
Would you agree w ith this suppliers instructions?
http://w w w .ebay.co.uk/itm/w s/eBayISAPI.dll?View Item&item=290565009405&

On January 31, 2012 at 10:41am

Pavlo Maksyutenko wrote:


The smaller the depth of discharge, the longer the battery w ill last
is WRONG based on Table 2. Battery life = (number of cycles)x(depth of discharge). Table 2 show s that 50% DoD is the best.

On January 31, 2012 at 4:59pm

BigMart wrote:
So w hat are you saying Pavlo? Discharge to 50% and then charge up to ???

On February 1, 2012 at 3:48am

John Fetter wrote:

On December 22, 2011 Ray Wells w rote, Technology should behave in a w ay humans can deal w ith. He is 100% right. If batteries are pow ering computer equipment, it should be easy
for equipment manufacturers to include programming that learns how the equipment is being used and to control battery charging accordingly for maximum life.
Simple. Unambiguous. The equipment w ould then be left plugged to a mains supply as much as possible. It w ould automatically apply optimum charging. If it detects excessively long
absence from a mains supply, it w arns the user.
They are not doing this simply because they w ant users to be confused and they w ant batteries to stop w orking, on average, just out of w arranty, so that they can sell more batteries.

On February 4, 2012 at 6:57am

Des wrote:
A very in formative w eb page. I must admit that I have more than I knew about batteries. I w ill refer your site to my friends.
Thanks to all for your w onderful contributions.

On February 4, 2012 at 8:32am

BigMart wrote:
I w ish someone could give me simple answ esr
.
I just w ant to know if I am running it on battery pow er how long I should let it run dow n to - and then do I recharge it to full pow er. If I am running it through the mains do I take that to full
pow er? When running it on the mains do I take the battery out?
Thank you.

On February 4, 2012 at 9:39am

John Fetter wrote:


Go to supermarket, pick up something from the fresh produce section. it carries details about the contents, cooking instructions, etc. Buy something w ith a battery, it carries instructions
that look remarkably like threats. Dont do this, dont do that. Will burn, w ill explode. Hey, I just w ant to know how to use this thing!

On February 6, 2012 at 9:28am

Guillaume wrote:
@BigMart
Dont let it drain out to maximize life expectancy. When you reach 25-40% remaining capacity, you should start recharging it.

On February 6, 2012 at 11:25am

BigMart wrote:
I concur w ith John Fetters comments. Is there nobody out there that speaks plain English?

On February 6, 2012 at 11:29am

BigMart wrote:
I take a coach / train journey every few w eeks w hich lasts approx 2 hours. I use it then on battery pow er. When I reach my destination I can then use mains.
So should I just run it off the mains w hen practical (removing the battery first?), or use battery pow er, but w hen I am dow n to 25 - 40% (a big range), plug it in until it reaches maximum?

On February 6, 2012 at 2:20pm

Guillaume wrote:
@BigMart
With that kind of use, I w ould recommend to recharge the battery the day before your coach / train journey. You may leave the battery at w hatever remaining capacity for a few w eeks
if this capacity is over 25%.
If the remaining capacity is below 25%, recharge it until it reaches 40% and then store it until the next utilization.
Also, I suggest that you remove the battery from the laptop for an extended use on mains.

On February 6, 2012 at 5:04pm

BigMart wrote:
Thanks Gullaume
As I w ill be using the laptop over a couple of days, so I w ill need to charge it up, use it on batteries then use it on mains until it charges up again. So should I continue this process until I
get home? I w ill w ant it fully charged for my return journey.

On February 6, 2012 at 5:05pm

John Fetter wrote:

My company w as running a product ad on line that had absolutely nothing to do w ith lithium ion batteries. We inadvertently w orded it in a w ay that w as interpreted by unhappy lithium ion
battery users to mean w e could help them. The effect w as like a tsunami. They clicked aw ay the ad budget for the day almost in the blink of an eye. It appears there are very, very many
very unhappy battery users out there.
The understand the advice that has been given. I personally do not find it difficult looking after batteries. The vast majority of users are primarily interested in using, not in mothering
batteries. It is not right that the use of batteries requires user participation and decision making in a process that w ill hopefully help to overcome critical product design deficiencies.

On February 9, 2012 at 6:47pm

Kells2122 wrote:
I loved w hat Derp & Luke Patrick had to say. It w as in laymen terms that I could understand. I just bought a new hi-cap battery for my hp laptop and w ant to make it mobile. Now I
understand how to do this. Thank you for the article and all the info.

On February 11, 2012 at 10:16pm

Capt bob wrote:


have tw o 24 volt battery packs w hich run a 11 hp golf cart motor in my 10,500 lbs boat
Have been storeing batteries in insulated/heated garage 40 tp 60 F
outside temperature 10 to 30 F 40 to 60 days per year southern Utah
w armer rest of year
should I be leaving batteries outside in boat in the w inter

On February 11, 2012 at 11:54pm

John Fetter wrote:


Capt Bob - Assuming your 24V battery packs are lead-acid, if they w ere mine, I w ould give them a full charge, ensure they are left disconnected and leave them outside in the boat in
w inter, under cover. Fully charged sulfuric acid w ill not freeze like w ater but freezes just above minus 40 degrees. Low temperature reduces chemical activity and therefore keeps the
batteries from discharging.

On February 12, 2012 at 2:11pm

Jon wrote:
Great article but I still have questions: I just bought a new laptop. It w ill be used everyday and the battery w ill need to be used on most days. I w ill have access to a pow er source about
as much time as w ill need to use the battery. Should I fully charge the battery to 100% everyday? Should I remove the battery w hen I can plug the laptop in even though the battery is
100% or close to? Im looking for any suggestions you might have on how I should maintain my battery.

On February 18, 2012 at 7:25pm

zachary wrote:
is there any w ay to condition a LI-ION if you failed to do the 8 hour charge the first use. i w as on the go w hen i recieved my cell. so it w asnt charged properly the first tw o days? if i
leave it on charge for 8 straight hours w ill that condition it if done w ith in the first w eek? cycle it? other procedure, or is it day late dollar short

On February 24, 2012 at 9:39am

Steven wrote:
I still use my 1st Gen iphone from 2007 and the battery capacity is still good. Everyday w hen Im home, the iphone goes on the cradle and gets charged overnight, regardless of how much
battery is left, (usually over 50%). Most of the modern gadgets that use Li-ion battery have smart charger that w ill cut off w hen the battery is fully charged. I guess charging my iphone
every night since 2007 have prolong the life of the battery. So I concur w ith the article.

On February 24, 2012 at 4:05pm

Martin wrote:
What is the difference betw een taking out the battery from a laptop w hile not in use, and leaving the battery in there, sw itched off ?

On February 29, 2012 at 6:28am

Wombat wrote:
is there a safe w ay to w ake up a Li-ion battery relatively safely at home? i have a number of batteries from drills that w ont charge and only show 11-12v (they are 18v packs)

On March 3, 2012 at 3:51pm

AlaskaPop wrote:
Great information, historical, evolving to present-future. Should help me conserve some
legacy systems beyond average, w hich is better than I could have managed before reading this essay Now I need to figure out the charger actions of a couple of laptop/pow er-adapter
combinations, and use habits of my associates. Avoid heat, full discharge, prolonged idle, and on really old systems, overcharge, and w e should see good use life. Thanks all.

On March 9, 2012 at 12:22am

logo items wrote:


Li-ion or Lithium Ion are often used in new ly produced laptop and mobile device. Actually i w rote about Laptop Battery Maintenance before, its about how to maintain your laptop battery
by doing regular fully cycle (fully charge and then fully discharge). But, later i know that those methods are only w ork on Ni-Cad and Ni-Mh battery.

On March 9, 2012 at 8:08am

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


Follow ing the advise of a blog, I started storing my Laptop and Mobile battery in an air tight container. After reading this article, I am confused w hether to leave them there or store them in
room temperature ? I live in India w here summer temperatures soar to 45 degrees. Centigrade. Will room temperatures be safe ? Please advise. Thank you for this w onderful article and do
convey my best w ishes to derp ( honestly he is a good soul )

On March 9, 2012 at 2:51pm

haddy wrote:
should i disconnect after my battery is full or should i keep it connected to charger

On March 10, 2012 at 12:14am

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


You should disconnect

On March 14, 2012 at 7:34pm

Matt J. wrote:
Several commentators have confirmed w hat I long suspected: that a smart charger w ill detect w hen a battery is full and dial back the voltage. But they have also confirmed that not all
chargers are this smart: so the natural question is: how do I tell if the charger I am considering buying, or the charger that came w ith my computer is that smart or not?

On March 14, 2012 at 7:58pm

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


Matt J., you just have to have confidence on the Charger w hich comes w ith the Computer. Theres no other alternative. if you buy a charger, make sure it matches the specifications and it
is from the same company as that of the Computer.

On March 14, 2012 at 8:01pm

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


You just have to have confidence on the Charger w hich comes w ith the Computer. Should you buy a new one, the specifications should match the Computers requirement and should be
from the same Company as that of the Computer.

On March 14, 2012 at 10:36pm

Matt J wrote:
@RajdeepThat is asking a lot. Especially since the published specs for both the OEM and aftermarket chargers do not INCLUDE The information. They all claim, for example, to be
capable of charging LiON batteries. The aftermarket chargers also come w ith a long list of model#s of laptops they claim to support. But since this article and the comments claim that
many of them do not dial dow n the voltage w hen the battery is charged, no, I do NOT have confidence on the Charger w hich comes w ith the Computer. Not w ithout an explicit guarantee.

On March 15, 2012 at 4:19am

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


Ofcourse the specs in the Battery are mentioned. havent you noticed it ? In several articles and blogs you w ill read on the w ays how to calibrate your Laptop Battery. Read that too.
Dont go for any charger. Insist on the one you w ere using earlier. That w ay you are safe. My earnest submission to you ~ One, buy an original charger w hich came w ith your Laptop and
second learn how to calibrate your battery periodically. There is no reason w hy your battery charging indication should be w rong. Let me know . I am just trying to help you.

On April 1, 2012 at 10:17am

Gary wrote:
w rt Bigmarts question on Jan.31 What is 120Vca? - I believe he meant 120 VAC, w hich stands for volts AC, standard mains in N. America.

On April 3, 2012 at 2:42am

batman forever wrote:


mi psp no se quiere cargar.al ir a cargarla en unos segundos se apaga dazme soluciones

On April 3, 2012 at 9:32am

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


With my apologies ~ request you to kindly post your queries in English only

On April 3, 2012 at 7:44pm

Matt J wrote:
Charging a battery in just seconds is NEVER a good idea, batman forever. Remember w hat the article above says about heat shortening the life of the battery: charging too fast WILL
raise the temperature too high and shorten its life.

On April 7, 2012 at 12:37pm

Tina wrote:
I am sorry about my lack of understanding but I just purchased a new battery for my laptop. I have an HP Pavillion. It came w ith 74% charge so I continued to charge it to 100%. Now I
w ant to make sure that my new battery lasts longer than my old battery. I tried reading and understanding the article but my brain cannot seem to process it. Do I allow the battery to
completely discharge and recharge? If so, how often? If not, how far dow n, percentage w ise, do I allow the battery to discharge before I allow it to recharge. Again, my apologies for my
lack of understanding. Thanks!

On April 7, 2012 at 1:39pm

Matt J. wrote:
@Tina The article w as not THAT hard to read;) But the answ ers to your questions are all based on the follow ing principle expressed in the article: shallow charge/discharge cycles are
better for battery life than deep ones. So No, you do not allow it to completely discharge. 10% discharges allow the battery to last for much longer, but are themselves too small to really
be practical. If your laptop and charger have good control over the charging current, (a question this article does not even try to answ er), then you should just leave it plugged as often as
possible.

On April 7, 2012 at 3:07pm

Big Mart wrote:


I have to agree w ith Tina. I found the responses very confusing.
So, Matt J, are you saying you should leave the laptop plugged in w ith the battery as often as possible? What I have gained from the article and responses, is I have left the battery drop
to approx 50%. I have removed the battery and running the laptop (w here practicable) off the mains. Is this right? If not, please explain so myself and Tina can understand it.
Thank you.

On April 7, 2012 at 10:39pm

Matt J. wrote:
@Big Mart - Close, but not quite. What I said is that you should leave the laptop plugged in w ith the battery as often as possible IF the charging circuity is high enough quality.
Unfortunately, neither this article nor the vendor specs tell us enough about the chargers: but overcharging is also bad for batteries, and poor chargers WILL overcharge the battery.
I am not sure w hich of my computers and chargers have high enough quality. I feel pretty confident of the Apple computers, less so of Radio Shack or Targus chargers bought for IBM
compatibles.

On April 7, 2012 at 11:13pm

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


For Tina ~ All new batteries come in a semi discharged state. You should have charged it fully and even after that for atleast tw o hours before using your computer. Never mine...Now
charge the battery fully before using it. Let me know !!

On April 7, 2012 at 11:22pm

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


For Tina ~ Follow this. Allow the battery to charge fully ( w ith your Laptop off ) Once charged use your laptop on battery mode till it discharges and you get a pop up suggesting that you
have to charge your battery. Again charge your battery ( w ith your computer off ) and use your battery as above. only once in a w hile you may use your Laptop plugged in w ith the
battery fully ( A circuit in the battery stops the battery being charged once it attains 100% so as to protect the battery from being over charged ) If you a using your Laptop more as a
desktop for more than tw o w eeks, it is better to take out the battery and keep it in a coll dry place. But please use your battery atleast once in a month. Please store your Laptop battery at
40% ~ 45 % charge level ` at w hich oxidation takes place the least.

On April 7, 2012 at 11:30pm

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


For Tina ~ Once in a w hile, in plugged in mode w ith the battery in your Laptop go to all programmes > H.P.Support Assistant > Trouble Shooting > Pow er and Thermal > Battery check. (
click on Battery check and w ait ) Your Laptop w ill tell you the state of your battery. So far your battery is new , you should not a have a problem. If you get a message saying
CALIBRATE YOUR BATTERY, please feel free to contact me at rajdeep218@gmail.com

On April 8, 2012 at 2:46am

Big Mart wrote:


@MattJ Thank you for your advice. What should I do then w ith my Acer Aspire 5715Z. The only charger I have for it is the charger w ithin the laptop.
Should I put the battery back in and then use the laptop off the mains? Do I do anything more w hen it reaches 100% charged?
I use my PC most of the time, and tend to only use the laptop w hen I aw ay from home, ever 2 - 3 w eeks for a w eekend.

On April 8, 2012 at 4:55am

Tina wrote:
@Big Martthanks for agreeing w ith me.
@Rajdeep and @Matt JI am a bit conflicted now w ith w hat you are both saying. Do I allow it to completely discharge then? I thought completely discharging a Lithium-ion battery w as
NOT a good idea.
Sorry again for my confused state of mindlol!

On April 8, 2012 at 4:57am

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


if you are mostly on the PC it is better that you take out the battery and store at 40% to 45 % and store it till you w ork on your Laptop over w eekends Once charged to 100%, pow er your
laptop from the battery till it drains and again charge to 100 % preferably w ith your Laptop off. This w ill ensure that your battery is alw ays in w orking condition Nothing to do w hen your
battery is fully charged. Just remember never to store batteries at 100%, no matter w hat. Use your Laptop and bring it dow n to atleast 45% before storing. Remember your charger is only
w orking w hen you are on plugged in mode. In battery mode your charger is off so nothing to w orry !! please make sure before inserting your battery that the contact points are clean.
Gently rub an eraser over the contacts and blow off the remnants from the points. If you follow thee points, i am sure your battery w ill give you good service. All the best !!

On April 8, 2012 at 5:18am

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


For Tina ~ Complete discharge is know n as deep discharge. w hich means your computer hibernates. No this is not good especaially for the hard disk as a reverse voltage can cause
serious damage. When the voltage drops to say 14% a pop up tells you to plug in before your Laptop hibernate. Rightly so. So just charge your battery Preferably w ith your Laptop off till
it attains 100%. A second Pop Up ( I too have a HP Pavilion g4 ) appears later w hen you are on 11%.PLEASE DONOT TAKE A RISK AND START CHARGING. Somebody suggested 10% to
indicate a deeper discharge in an effort to calibrate the battery but that is different subject altogether w hich your new battery w ill not require now . And Tina please remember that all HP
laptops reveal the correct battery reading as long as you have the applicable charger and battery ( w hich comes from HP )and you have not messed around trying to calibrate your
battery.In the beginning every one is scared ~ but later it w ill be your Laptop w hich w ill teach you a lot of things so dont have to feel embarrassed.

On April 8, 2012 at 7:59am

Tina wrote:
@Rajdeep Sing ...YOU ROCK!!! I am all set to go. See I have my Masters Degree in Reading unfortunately not all types of readinglol. Thank you very much for not letting me feel stupid or
embarassed!

On April 8, 2012 at 9:18am

BigMart wrote:
Thank you Rajdeep. How ever, if I am running the laptop using battery pow er it w ill probably run out of pow er w hile I am still using it (should I let it drain completely, or start recharging it at,
say 10%?), so therefore I w ould have to recharge it w ith the laptop on. Does that make much difference?

On April 8, 2012 at 9:34am

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


For Bill Mart ~ suppose you are on battery, w ait till the second pop up arrives ( 11% ) and then start charging you battery ( plug in mode ) if you have important w ork to do, carry on.
Theres no harm. Preferably put the laptop off cos a lot of heat is being generated ( w hile charging the battery gets hot otherw ise too and secondly the Laptop generates enough heat
w hen on ). Remember the biggest enemy of your battery is heat. Apart from this theres no difference if you charge your battery w ith the Laptop on. All the Best.

On April 8, 2012 at 9:39am

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


For Tina ~ The objective of blogs and articles is to ensure people exchange ideas and learn. At one time, I too, w as ignorant. today I feel happy that i am in a position to reassure people.
Maybe one day people w ill ask you about Laptops and you w ill be able to answ er their queries

On April 8, 2012 at 9:44am

Big Mart wrote:


Cheers for that.
If I have finished w hat I am doing and it has got to say 60%, do let it continue up to 100% and then run dow n, or just run dow n from that 60%?
Just w ant to be absolutely clear on w hat I am doing !

On April 8, 2012 at 7:04pm

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


Run dow n from 60%. to 11%. Put off your computer and charge as usual to 100%. i agree, its better to be sure.

On April 9, 2012 at 4:43pm

Matt J. wrote:
@Rajdeep- Dont feel too happy, your claims are quite contradictory to the basic claims of this article. No, he should NOT w ait until the battery is discharged to 11% That w ould be one of
the deep discharges that shortens battery life.

On April 9, 2012 at 5:42pm

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


@Matt.J ~ If my suggestion is in contradiction to this article, w hy does even a company like HP has pop ups coming at 14% and then again at 11% by DEFAULT.. The company insists that
BEFORE YOU CHARGE YOUR BATTERY, YOU SHOULD DISCHARGE IT ~ KEEPING IN VIEW A FULL DISCHARGE CYCLE. Every one know s that if you go beyond 11%, the Laptop w ill
hibernate, so the cut off point is 11% WHICH IS NOT A DEEP DISCHARGE. Had this been so, the companys w ould insist you charge your battery earlier, say at 20% or 25%, and the Pop
ups w ould appear then....... This has been agreed upon by HP too.. I dont know w hich Laptop you have but I suggest you illicit their opinion too on the matter.And if you not agreeable to
my suggestion, its better you dont follow it. THERE IS NO COMPULSION !!

On April 9, 2012 at 5:59pm

Matt J. wrote:
@Rajdeep
Completely hypothetical speculation is no substitute for reading and understanding the article. Especially not w hen that speculation relies on unlimited benevolence of a company.
Discharging to 11% IS deep enough to have a significant effect on battery life, no matter w hat HP chargers say. That is clear from the article.

On April 10, 2012 at 2:33am

Big Mart wrote:


Well I am now even more confused. Is there anybody that w orks in the battery industry that can give a definitive response?

On April 10, 2012 at 7:36am

Rajdeep Singh wrote:


@ Big Mart ~ Ask Matt J. ~ he seems to be an authority on this subject. !
@ Matt.J. ~ Youve got me w rong again. No w here in the article it says that 11% is deep enough to have a significant effect on battery life This is purely based on your assumption.
Throughout my comments I have bee n mentioning COMPANY and you said no matter w hat hp chargers say . For your kind information, no charger manufacturing company in the
w orld specifies, the level at w hich a battery should be recharged ( 11% / 14% ) that is purely the responsibility of the Laptop manufacturing company. Chargers just indicate, basic
specifications. its the laptop manufacturing company w hich tells you w hen to recharge..If you ow n an android mobile phone , you should be familiar w ith Lithium batteries. Just go to
Google search and you w ill see hordes of articles and blogs on Lithium batteries ~ on how to maintain them, charging etc.WHATEVER INFORMATION I AM POSTING HERE IS NOT
HEARSAY ~ THEY ARE BASED ON MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE AND CONFIRMED BY H P .

On May 7, 2012 at 5:48pm

Eske Rahn wrote:


Hi
Thanks for a great article!
But I w onder if the conclusion draw n on table 2 are absolutely accurate?
Here I have extended it w ith a third column, taking the deterioration into account.
DoD Cycles Total Usabilty
100%

500 435

50%

1500 638

25%

2500 531

10%

4700 400

The added last column says how many times of full charge you w ill get out of the battery in total during its life time w ith each approach.
Assuming a linear deterioration of the battery from 100% to 70% of its original capacity (This assumption is backed by a graph in the article)
So the integration is simple, and can be replaced by a mean factor of 85% [*] to the pure product.
This w ould yield that the optimal total capacity gained from the battery over its lifetime is a DOD of around 50%
(Plotting the four points and combining w ith a smooth curve indicates that the maximum is around 60-50% DoD)
[*]
More precisely
Sum{n=0 to N-1 of DoD*(1-30%*n/N) }
=DoD*(N - 30%*Sum{n=0 to N-1 of n/N})
=DoD*(N - 30%(N-1)/2)

=DoD*(N*85%-15%)
~DoD* N*85%
Best Regards
Eske Rahn

On May 13, 2012 at 10:39am

Gama Xul wrote:


This information has allow ed me to fully recover the use of Lithium-ion cordless drill batteries for I had thought w ere irreversibly damaged. Its good to understand a little bit of the science
and practices of batteries and long-term storage. Im taking far better care of my tool batteries now , and Im running on a set of tw o I hadnt previously cared for properly. Life extended by
tw o years so far! Thanks for this information.

On May 14, 2012 at 12:43pm

Xiaopang wrote:
Matt J., youre quite exaggerating by claiming that discharging dow n to 11% is already a deep discharge. Think logically for a moment: Companies have the legal obligation to deliver
products w ho function w ithin the expectations of their end users. If a product w ould actually be damaged extraordinarily (in this case a deep discharge w ould qualify for that) w hile its
use is also w ithin w hat could be expected from a normal user, then this might make the company vulnerable to law suits. Not just because theyd sell a falsely advertised product, but also
because it w ould be dangerous.
A deep discharge should be avoided not just because it might ruin the battery, but also because such a battery might suddenly start to burn or even explode. Window s allow s to go w ay
below 11% (Xp 3%, Vista/7 5%), so as a result millions batteries w ould be damaged and a plethora might catch fire and burnbut that doesnt happenand for a reason:
A deep discharge per definition is w hen the cell voltage drops below a specified value. For 4.2V cell phone batteries this value is usually around 2.5V (60%). For notebook batteries that
usually operate in the range of 10-12V I couldnt find any values, but applying the same ratio as above, 60% w ould equal 6-7.2V.
To actually debunk your carelessly spit out claim I actually let my Notebook discharge the battery dow n to 30mW (0%) w hile I measured the battery voltage. The battery usually operated at
11.5V w hen the computer is connected w ith the charger. On battery the voltage is around 11V and goes dow n the more the battery is discharged. At 30mW charge the battery still had a
cell voltage of 9.6V and thus w as w ay above w hat w ould qualify for a deep discharge.
A deep discharge usually only occurs if a battery is used by devices that dont turn off automatically on low charge and draw so little charge themselves that batteries can be discharged
much longer and deeper than through normal devices.
Notebooks not just turn off automatically, they also need a pretty high charge level to even pow er up, so using up the battery entirely still leaves enough charge for the battery to not be
damaged (anything else w ould be a pretty big oversight/design flaw , w ouldnt it). Li-ion batteries are equipped w ith small chipsets though that control the charging process and report
stats back to the operating system. This also draw s pow er, so discharging a battery dow n to 0% and storing it like that for w eeks w ould eventually result in a deep discharge.
So, for all of those w ho are in doubt: try it out yourself if you are unsure. You can measure the battery voltage w ith hardw are monitor.

On May 15, 2012 at 9:14am

Matt J. wrote:
I just cannot believe how many people comment here w ithout having a clue w hat they are talking about. You, Xiaopang, are one of these. DId you even LOOK at Table 2? How did you
miss the huge difference in number of cycles for a battery discharged to 10%? You are the one w ho completely missed w hat the article says, I got it right.

On May 16, 2012 at 6:17am

Xiaopang wrote:
No Matt, you just cant read and throw any term into the ring that makes sense to you, regardless of its meaning. Your w ords:
No, he should NOT w ait until the battery is discharged to 11% That w ould be one of the deep discharges that shortens battery life.
My reply w as about explaining how 11% is NOT a deep discharge, because there is a clear definition of w hat a deep discharge is and w hich you apparently dont know . I also never
claimed that discharging the battery by 100% w ould not limit its recharge cycles. I didnt even go near that.
You, Matt, need to learn to comprehend instead of just looking at a few isolated numbers in the desperate attempt to find proof for the tw isted ideas you apparently try to convey.
Youre w elcome to disprove w hat I actually said by using my ow n w ords, instead of just claiming that you got it right, w hile you clearly have no clue w hat youre talking about
Just to not just let your little statement die like it probably should, Ill put table 2 into perspective. Something you should have done yourself instead of treating as the absolute truth.
First of all, table 2 is based on 4.2V cell phone batteries, w hile I w as talking about notebook batteries. Both types are designed for totally different uses. While a cell phone battery is the
sole source of energy for a cell phones life and is being recharged on a regular basis, a notebook battery is only there to deliver occasional pow er to a much greater extent. Charging
also only takes place occasionally (granted the user/softw are/charging electronics) behave properly.
Secondly, the number of charges is determined by using an arbitrary value of battery life. The text even says so itself. Did you even read it or did you just look at the pretty graphs and
numbers? The threshold value could be anything and the resulting measurements are of little use for other batteries. Proof lies in the numbers itself:
100% * 500 cycles = 50.000% total charge
10% * 4700 cycles = 47.000% total charge
Discharging a battery by 100% nets more charge over the batterys life than only using it up by 10%. So, even if the w ords you laid in my mouth w ere actually uttered by me, Id still be
right due to the fact that you didnt analyze w hat you argued w ith.
Even better: The arbitrary threshold of 70% is unrealistic. Who gets rid of a battery just because the cell phone only offers 3 w eeks of standby instead of 4? Who buys a horrendously
expensive notebook battery just because the battery only delivers 5 hours of w ork time instead of 7? A threshold of 30% w ould be much more realistic and w ould probably show that the
100% discharge nets much more charge than the 10% one. The gap betw een 50% and 25% discharge w ould probably also get a lot smaller, or may be even vanish at all. I dont know
and you dont either, but the 10% - 100% discrepancy show s that this table is of little w orth for your argument.
Repeat the test w ith a w ide array of current notebook batteries of different brands w ith at least 10 per brand to minimize statistical flukes and then you have some numbers to argue w ith.

Right now you have squat, let alone logic or analytical skills.

On May 16, 2012 at 1:29pm

Matt J. wrote:
No, Xiaoping, you are the one guilty of the lions share of the charges you fling at me. You w ere right about one thing: you should have let my little statement die instead of responding
w ith your angry screed.
I never said anything about throw ing a battery out after it is deep discharged. Nor if discharged to 11%. Neither does the article. Nor about throw ing it out after three w eeks of standby.
That is your fantasy. But the difference betw een 11% and 10% is obviously small.
And how did you miss the title of the article? Despite your pretense, it is NOT specifically about 4.2V batteries, it is about Li-ion in general.
Your angry screed, full of equivocation, show s only your ow n inability to understand either me or the article. If anyone ever gets anything useful out of itw hich is doubtfulit w ill be the
articles author realizing w hat he could have w orded differently to better avoid confusion and needless arguments.
But even if he had w orded it perfectly, there is nothing he can do for anyone clueless enough to believe as you do, that Companies have the legal obligation to deliver products w ho
function w ithin the expectations of their end users. That w as funny. Why did you THINK most softw are license agreements disavow any fitness of purpose? They w ould not be able to
do this if your legal obligation w ere real. New sflash: it is not.

On May 16, 2012 at 3:59pm

Tom V Martin wrote:


@Matt
Refering to Table 2
Assuming a 10% DoD gives you 1 unit of use and you can recharge it 4700 times youve gotten 4700 units of use out of the battery.
Now if you have a 25% DoD you get 2.5 units of use per recharge. You can recharge it 2500 times youve now gotten 6250 units of use from the battery.
If you have a 50% DoD you now get 5 units of use per recharge. You can recharge it 1500 times youve now gotten 7500 units of use from the battery.
If you have a 100% DoD youve now gotten 10 units of use per recharge. You can recharge it 500 times youve now gotten 5000 units of use from the battery.
In addition keeping the battery topped off is contradictory to the information contained in Table 3.
Ive found I obtain the best life and length of use betw een charges by allow ing the battery to dischage till the device tells me it needs to be recharged, and then recharging it at that time.

On May 16, 2012 at 7:03pm

Craig wrote:
I must admit to being slightly confused. You say the w orst condition is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures, w hich is the case w hen running a laptop on the pow er
grid but then go to say The question is often asked: Should I disconnect my laptop from the pow er grid w hen not in use? Under normal circumstances this should not be necessary
because once the lithium-ion battery is full, a correctly functioning charger w ill discontinue the charge and w ill only engage w hen the battery voltage drops to a low level. Most users do
not remove the AC pow er, and I like to believe that this practice is safe.
Surely leaving the laptop plugged in all the time w ill lead to keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures, no?

On May 21, 2012 at 12:33am

Xiaopang wrote:
Looks like a few comments w ere deleted, including my reply to Matt and that w ithout an explanationnice.
Matt: Heres the gist of my last reply.
You w ere right about one thing: you should have let my little statement die instead of responding w ith your angry screed.
Yeah, try to sw eep the fact under the rug that I cleared up your w hole misconception about deep discharges and the erroneous advice you gave w ith it. That w as also the sole purpose
of my comment, so I guess I w as right about tw o statements. Not a bad quota in a tw o statement post

I never said anything about throw ing a battery out after it is deep discharged. Nor if discharged to 11%.
Never said you did.

Neither does the article.


The article used 70% capacity as a threshold and called it end of life. Id pretty much call a battery that has reached its end dead. What do you do w ith dead batteries? I throw them
out

Nor about throw ing it out after three w eeks of standby. That is your fantasy.
No, that w as an analogy to show you how useless numbers based on such high thresholds are. By definition of the article, youd have to get rid of batteries at that point because they
are considered dead. The conclusion you should reach, other than being sidetracked by your ow n poor w ay of arguing, is that a more realistic threshold might show that the charge that
could be expected w ould be pretty much even for certain charge levels. May be the opposite w ould be the case, but no one know s that. Thats w hy you cant use the numbers as a basis
of your argument. Their nature just doesnt allow any conclusions.

But the difference betw een 11% and 10% is obviously small.
10% DISCHARGE of Table 2 != 11% CHARGE (=89% discharge). Yeah, the difference betw een 10 and 89% (or 90 and 11% if you w ant to look at the charge levels) is obviously small

And how did you miss the title of the article? Despite your pretense, it is NOT specifically about 4.2V batteries, it is about Li-ion in general.
And w here does the article say that the protection circuit is the same for cell phone and notebook batteries? You imply they w ork exactly the same, even though that makes no sense at
all since both battery types are designed for totally different usage scenarios.

Your angry screed, full of equivocation, show s only your ow n inability to understand either me or the article.
Your obvious lack of understanding and your poor w ay of arguing make me rather smile than angry. How you get anger out of my reply is beyond me, but youve been misinterpreting the
article and my replies so much that Im not really surprised.
Btw , provide proof for your so called equivocations. My replies are right there. Use quotes for once in your life.

If anyone ever gets anything useful out of itw hich is doubtfulit w ill be the articles author realizing w hat he could have w orded differently to better avoid confusion and needless
arguments.
The article is very clear in w hat it says. It just doesnt take amateurs like you into account w ho cant even distinguish percentages of charge and discharge levels

But even if he had w orded it perfectly, there is nothing he can do for anyone clueless enough to believe as you do, that Companies have the legal obligation to deliver products w ho
function w ithin the expectations of their end users. That w as funny.
Just because you found it funny doesnt make it untrue. What I described is part of many case law and codified law based countries. You clearly are no law yer and you also clearly lack
proper common know ledge:
If a defective product causes an accident that results in death, injury or property damage, the manufacturer, distributor, retailer and lessor of the product may be liable for the damages
caused by the product. [...] The plaintiff must establish that a product has a defect that made it unreasonably dangerous at the time the product left the control of the defendant. [...] It may
also be possible to show that the product w as defective because it did not perform in keeping w ith the users reasonable expectations.
Source: http://w w w .osbar.org/public/legalinfo/1047_DefectiveProducts.htm

Why did you THINK most softw are license agreements disavow any fitness of purpose?
Softw are != Hardw are. Softw are doesnt explode or catch fire w hen being deep discharged. Also, show me such an agreement for any non-Softw are product. You w ont find any, but
just in case you do, it w ould be in violation of basically any w estern law .

On May 25, 2012 at 4:15pm

Celine Suchanek wrote:


I had a question.
I have a 2.3 android w ith the BL-4D 3.7 volt Li-on battery. I have found that overcharging does reduce battery life. I have had the phone only a couple of months and I do not use it a lot
because each time I do after a couple of hours the battery is low . I received tw o batteries w ith the phone but it is still a problem. I have let it get to 0 percent a couple of times and
recharged it to 100 percent. This has not helped. I know not smart but it w as a suggestion I read before I read the article. I have not had problems w ith previous phones w hen it comes to
battery life. Am I doing something w rong? I e-mailed the company but they have not responsed. Any help w ould be greatly appreciated. Also w hat android phone has the best battery life?
Is there an extended version of the battery I have?

On May 29, 2012 at 10:39am

Brandon wrote:
Hello all,
This article has been updated w ith lots of new information from Isidor.
Enjoy!
Brandon

On May 29, 2012 at 10:59am

Joe wrote:
These days, w e have a lot of Smart Phones on the market like the Iphone w hich w e cannot remove the battery for charging using other machine. Is there a w ay, w e could analyze or
using other accessories to charge it w hite the battery still inside the phone.

On June 8, 2012 at 11:15pm

azam uddin wrote:


This tree-pow er article is pretty interesting. For those of you w ho may be w ell-versed incharge an e-vehicles battery pack? Electrical circuit runs39;s enough pow er in trees for
University of Washington researchers to

On June 12, 2012 at 1:25am

Andre Gardner wrote:


Hi
Ive been monitoring my battery w ear for a w hile now carefully w ith BatteryBar Pro v3.5.4 and my conclusion is that over-discharging and over-charging your battery is damaging and
alw ays results in w ear.

So now I never allow the battery to trickle charge to 100% pulling out the plug before around 90% to 95% max. I then run the battery until around 50% to 35% and then start charging it
again. By doing this all the time, BatteryBar Pro registers the minimum amount of w ear. In fact a slip from this regime alw ays seems to result in a few percentage points of w ear. I think I
basically do manually w hat some systems can do automatically through a setting in the BIOS (w ish I knew about this feature before buying my laptop!).
So thats my comment really. I really recommend BatterBar Pro so you can really keep an eye on w hat is going on. But remember the computer needs a restart for any w ear level numbers
to be updated.
Hope his helps!
Andre

On July 3, 2012 at 1:02am

demajoor wrote:
this is for laptops i presume
i dont think this w orks for phones like the htc one x or has that been tested to?

On July 3, 2012 at 1:34am

Big Mart wrote:


Andre
If you never charge it to 100%, w hat about w hen you w ant to use just battery pow er? I w ill be going on a train journey tomorrow , and w ant to use it on the w ay. There are rarely mains
sockets. I w ant the maximum amount of time available.

On July 6, 2012 at 8:49am

Andre Gardner wrote:


To reply to Big Mart
I think the best thing to do is to charge to something like 97% to 98% and that w ill restrict the battery w ear to the absolute minimum and w ont have to compromise too much batter
capacity.
Having said that I think it is inevitable that you w ill need to fully discharge the battery from time to time w hen on the train for example but you just bear in mid that this w ill most likely damage
you battery a bit unfortunately.
Hope this helps.
Regards

On July 6, 2012 at 9:41am

Big Mart wrote:


I think my battery for the laptop is now almost at the end of its useful life ! I can only get just over an hour from it w hen fully charged.
Is there anyw here that is recommended to buy a replacement one. I did ask the laptop manufacturer (Acer) but it w as horrendously expensive.
Thanks in anticipation

On July 6, 2012 at 10:18am

Andre Gardner wrote:


Just search for it in Google by putting in the model name w ith the w ords replacement battery in the search box. Note that laptop batteries are not that cheap you should expect to pay at
least $50.

On July 6, 2012 at 10:23am

Big Mart wrote:


Thank you Andre. I just w ondered if anyone knew of a good reliable company.

On July 25, 2012 at 7:14am

Hassan wrote:
Hi.This is Hassani have hp probook 4530.The battery is PR06 Notebook Battery 3ICR19/66-2.10.8Vdc 4200mAh.I face pow er outages almost after every one or tw o hours. If i
charge my battery to 40% and then put in fridge and during pow er outage i w ill use the battery. Is this practice a good one? If yes plz tell me the %charging that i should use for the
battery.

On August 8, 2012 at 6:55pm

John Feltz wrote:


Ive w ritten a small program to perform unattended shutdow ns of battery pow ered devices (such as laptops) at specific charges. It is for Ubuntu or Linux users, how ever if there is
enough interest Ill consider porting it for w indow s and mac:
https://github.com/jfeltz/pow ersleep

On August 28, 2012 at 8:15pm

Daniel Dourado wrote:


The charger that came w ith my Motorola Razr is 5.1 v How come? If the maximum is 4.2?

On August 29, 2012 at 5:34am

Herve wrote:
I read the original version of this article (w hose only table w as the very enlightening Table 3) many years ago, thanks to the authors for updating it w ith more tables and very informative
data.
Im afraid there are tw o typos left:
- in the comment on Figure 1: A pool of new 1500mA Li-ionbatteries> should be A pool of new 1500mAh Li-ion batteries
- in the comment on Table 4: Every 0.01V drop> should be Every 0.1V drop to match the table values (e.g. 4.2 to 4.1).

On August 31, 2012 at 4:38am

GEO wrote:
muito bom parabns

On August 31, 2012 at 5:00pm

Janet wrote:
The battery university is a tremendous service. Thanks for keeping it updated. I agree w ith Herves typo corrections above.
I w orked w ith batteries for many years, so I hope my w ords w ill take aw ay some of the battery and charging anxiety that many have expressed in the comments. Here are the key things
to remember about Li Ion:
1. Li Ion has a long shelf life, except if it is stored fully discharged. Hence, the common recommendation to store at about 40% state of charge or above. STORE BETWEEN 100% AND
40% STATE OF CHARGE..
2. All name brand companies produce chargers that stop the LiIon charge at 100%. It is the best practice to allow the charger to complete the charge. Opportunistic charging (less than
full charge) is ok and w ill not harm the battery. There are electronic control modules either in the battery pack or the charger that decide w hen the charge is complete. USE THE
MANUFACTURERS CHARGER AND ALLOW THE CHARGE TO COMPLETE MOST OF THE TIME.
3. You do not need to store the battery in the refrigerator and it may be harmful to store the battery in the freezer. Your battery is happy at the same temperature you are comfortable.
The most important thing you can do for the battery is do not leave it in the car on a hot day. Same goes for your dog or your kids. STORE THE BATTERY AT ROOM TEMPERATURE.
4. If you are usually plugged in w hen you w ork, the battery does not even need to be in your laptop. (Check your instruction book or if you have children, use good judgment.)
Just make sure the battery terminals are taped so you do not inadvertently short it. OR Try not plugging in the laptop some w ork sessions. Most w ill tell you w hen the battery is getting low
and you have plenty of time to plug it in (but this is using up your battery life). Either w ay avoids keeping the battery at full state of charge all the time and repetitive charging (starting
charge on a fully chargd battery) w hich is detrimental to battery life. There is a variety of charger quality on the market. Some battery/charger combinations w ill detect this situation
sooner than others. TRY NOT TO KEEP YOUR BATTERY ON CHARGE OR FULLY CHARGED ALL THE TIME.
I understand the batteries are expensive and you w ant the most life out of them. To get the most life from the battery really is as simple as the 4 BEST PRACTICES listed above. Your life
is too short to be babysitting your batteries trying to decide the depth of discharge for today and/or running to the fridge for a battery. Enjoy.

On August 31, 2012 at 5:59pm

Matt J. wrote:
Janet w rote: USE THE MANUFACTURERS
CHARGER AND ALLOW THE CHARGE TO COMPLETE MOST OF THE TIME.
To w hich I reply:
But on w hat grounds do you assert that it has to be the manufacturers charger? Why w ouldnt a Targus Universal Charger (for example) have a control module capable of doing the
control just as w ell?

On August 31, 2012 at 6:21pm

Janet wrote:
It is best to use a charger designed for the intended product. If there is a reliable third party charger specificly intended to charge the battery for your product then it w ould also be
acceptable. This is for safety reasons so that the monitoring and control circuits usually w ithin the battery pack operate correctly to control the battery charge.

On September 25, 2012 at 2:12pm

jay wrote:
What about using a Touchstone dock (Hp Touchpad) The general consensus on the touchpad forums is that it is safe to pop the touchpad on the w ireless dock w hich also charges it to
full capacityMost people are leaving their touchpads on this dock every night and day and taking it off inbetw een for minimal use. Ie checking email, brow sing then throw it straight back
on the touchstone.
This w ould seem to indicate that these touchpads are permanently living at 100% or near caoacity at all of the time.Can this be safe or healthy for long term maintenence?
Apparently their does seem to be a rash of issues re the hp touchpads battery not w aking from pow ering off or discharging.
Maybe keeping it topped off can save it from accidentally deep discharging, as it seems the auto pow er off chip may not be functioning correct w ith the softw are/hardw are

On October 20, 2012 at 8:32am

john h wrote:
thanks to (almost) all w ho contribute here. I have really enjoyed reading the articles and the comments/speculations. I have a few of my ow n, and I w ould love to hear back from all
(almost) of you. First, from reading the comments and seeing that there is not 100% agreement on the dos and donts, it w ould seem to me there is a missing factor, w hich I w ould
respectfully suggest is manufacturing quality of the battery. From my ow n experience, I have had some devices w hich w ere abused, yet maintained good runtime capacities for long
lifespans, as w ell as others that w ere babied and died ridiculously premature and expensive deaths. In the case of laptop packs and other multiple cell assemblies like those used w ith
cordless tools, my forensic investigations reveal individual cells w hich have failed either by shorting or some form of diminished capacity w hich renders the entire pack useless.
My question today concerns the use of different charging connections and their effect on rates/quality of charge; as w as mentioned by some, the charging circuitry is contained w ithin
the device (cell phone). As such, how is it that I get a faster charge from, say, the one that plugs into the cigarette lighter as compared to the one that is usb pow ered? Obviously the
voltage sources are different, but does that mean the phone is so smart it is deciding for me w hether I w ant a quick charge or a very slow one? Shouldnt the phone look at the incoming
source and automatically regulate it dow n to the appropriate rate? All of the automotive and 120v receptacle charges I have charge at a rate that is much faster than usb. Is then the usb
the preferred w ay?
thanks

On October 30, 2012 at 2:10pm

carol wrote:
How about the larger Li Ion batteries used in yard tools? Mine have decreased their life of charge time as w ell as the time it takes to charge them fully. These are green w orks
batteries. Is there a w ay to turn this around and get the longer charge time back?

On October 31, 2012 at 5:25am

john h wrote:
Hi Carol
I w ill get my 2 cents w orth in and then hopefully some others w ill have something to add. From w hat you are describing, w hich includes both short run times and long charge times, I
w ould have to conclude that your battery packs are reaching the end of their useful lives. The condition you describe sounds to me like the internal resistance of the batteries is rising. If
you ascribe to the philosophies of B.U., then you understand that it is not possible to rejuvenate the lithium cells, and could also be dangerous to try. Unfortunately, the lesson you have
learned is one I think most of us are perpetually repeating, and I am struggling to understand completely w hat the process is that destroys most of these cells. I have had very very few
of these lithium cells w hich lived up to their stated life expectancies. My ow n experience w ould suggest 3 main factors: #1: Quality / proper use of charger circuit. #2.: Quality of actual
Lithium cells. #3: Usage patterns and environmental (heat) considerations. The comments listed above from Janet are along the same lines as w hat I believe; In effect, w e are
inadvertently killing a lot of these by putting them/ leaving them on chargers that are not w ell engineered.

On October 31, 2012 at 6:18am

carol wrote:
Thanks John H. I w as just hoping that there w as a trick to actually getting the performance from the batteries that w as promised in the sales pitch for the product. Silly me!

On October 31, 2012 at 10:12pm

Raphael wrote:
My Lenovo G480 and other current Lenovo notebooks as I know has a softw are called energy management system w hich you can tw eak to make the battery fully charge in case
youre alw ays using unit w ithout the AC pow er or it w ill have the charger charge the battery up to 60% level if youre frequently using the AC pow er. Now I know the rationale of this
60% after reading this article. Thank you

On December 23, 2012 at 3:31pm

Mohammad wrote:
tnx for useful artice I have a new lenovo Y580 and I dont know how to charge it for the first time.w ould u help me plz..

On January 4, 2013 at 10:37am

Andrew G wrote:
My Nikon digital SLR (D50) w as bought in December 2005. Ive taken about 7000 pictures, so I guess the camera isnt used a great deal. Its run by an EN-EL3a Li-Ion, 7.4v 1500 mAh
battery pack. I recharge the battery (8.4v, 0.9amp Nikon charger) as soon as the camera displays a low battery symbol in the view finder. I guess I recharge the battery 6 to 10 times a
year.
But Im w orried as Im still using the original battery.
I know Ive only recharged it (maybe) 70 times. Well short of the 200+ re-charge cycles.
But the camera / battery never get cold or hot. As soon as the charge is complete, I put the battery back in the camera. At the rate I use the battery, w ill it last another 7 years? Or is
there a finite time it w ill last?
I have a digital volt meter. Is there a simple measurement I could make - that w ould give me an indication how much life there is in the battery pack?
FYI: Immediately after charging the battery measured 8.31v
One hour later is w as 8.29v
Eight hours later it w as still 8.29v
You expert thought w ould be appreciated!
Best w ishes from the UK!

On January 12, 2013 at 11:06pm

Jason Lee wrote:


I think its rather impossible to do a partial discharge on Apples mobile devices. The iPad is equipped w ith three batteries, the MacBooks are equipped w ith six. But Im not sure if they
dishcarge one after the other or all together.

On January 17, 2013 at 5:24am

James Bond, Jnr wrote:


How about lithium ion battery safety? Hundreds, perhaps thousands of handheld and laptop devices have been burnt out by lithium ion battery fires.The Chevrolet Volt lithium ion battery
caught fire several times. The Boeing 787 Dreamliner lithium ion battery caught fire several times. A submarine and several aircraft have been w ritten off by lithium ion battery fires.

On January 17, 2013 at 7:51am

Dick Lawrence wrote:


Jason Lee, your iPad has its batteries w ired in series. The voltage pow ering the device is the sum of the 3 batteries voltages, e.g. around 12V. They all discharge together. The MacBook
probably has 2 parallel strings of 3 batteries but (like the iPad) they still all discharge together.
James B. - take a look at lithium-iron-phosphate (LiFePO4) battery technology and the abuse these take in order to be certified safe (to meet UN safety requirements) - I found a description
of these tests on this site. They include pounding a steel spike through the battery. They still dont overheat or start fires. Very tough technology and very long cycle life. I built a bicycle
headlight / tail light system w ith them and theyre w orking great after 2 years. - DL

On January 17, 2013 at 9:37am

James Bond, Jnr wrote:


Dick L
You are reciting the sales blurb. I took the lithium ion battery fire information from new s reports. The airlines that bought the 787 dont w ant to fly them until the problem is fixed.

On January 17, 2013 at 12:12pm

Dick Lawrence wrote:


James: different technology. LiFePO4 is the variant that w as the basis for the late great A123 Systems battery company, w ho w ere anxiously w orking to get into the electric car industry
in a big w ay, before they w ent dow n and w ere acquired by a Chinese company (not sure its a done deal yet). BatterySpace.com sells LiFePO4 batteries by the w ay. Did you even look
at the U.N. qualification test reports? Its not marketing sales literature.
Plain old Lithium-Ion is more prone to overheat and risk starting a fire, as the unhappy folks at Apple know . If you have information linking the 787 issues to LiFePO4 technology please let
us know , w ith corroborating links supplied.

On January 17, 2013 at 2:35pm

James Bond, Jnr wrote:


Dick
I believe Boeing w ould only have used the best of the best lithium ion technology Yet it failed. Lithium ion battery technology is inclined to burn. You seem to be digressing.

On January 18, 2013 at 1:48am

Pier Luigi wrote:


Ive been talked that to improve/increase the lifespan of out batteries, it is quite recommended to run discharging cycles every 6 months. Could anyone advice me about it?
I w as serching on Internet for a Battery Discharger and i found out the item below :
http://w w w .amperis.com/en/products/misc/battery-dischargers/
I looking forw ard to hearing from your. Thank you very much for your collaboration.

On January 18, 2013 at 3:49am

Martin Rosen wrote:


Would this product be of any use? http://w w w .mightydeals.co.uk/deals/national/Gadgets-Gifts/Pow er-Bank-Recharger-/4033?
lsid=550200030&campaign=Affiliate_Window &utm_source=Affiliate_Window &utm_medium=Affiliate_Marketing&utm_campaign=Affiliate_Window _Sale

On January 18, 2013 at 6:11am

Dick Lawrence wrote:


Pier, the Battery Discharger you link to is mostly for testing batteries not for recommended maintenance or improving the battery.
The benefits of discharging a battery depends on the battery type (chemistry). For lead-acid battery, deep discharge is BAD for the battery and w ill shorten its lifetime. For nickel-cadmium
some people recommend occasional full-discharge and the re-charge, citing the memory effect of nickel-cadmium chemistry - I think your question may be about nickel-cadmium. Other
people claim the memory effect is a myth. You w ill find good information on this battery-university site, it is a very good source of info on batteries of all kinds.
Lithium-ion, like lead-acid, does not benefit from deep discharge - you w ill get longer life from lithium-ion chemistry by only discharging to 25-30% and re-charging to 80-90% - storing it at

full charge (100%) for a long time is also not good - w hich is the topic of this forum, actually. There are some good articles and graphs here that explain it. - DL

On January 18, 2013 at 6:32am

Dick Lawrence wrote:


James, I strongly doubt Boeing used LiFePO4 technology - its relatively new and the 787 w as in design for many years. They are conservative about bringing in new technology
especially w here safety is concerned - even though LiFePO4 w ould have been a better choice, in retrospect.
Go to http://w w w .batteryspace.com/lifepo4cellspacks.aspx and then click on Know ledge on LiFePO4 battery. Look at the Needle Test - this is w here they pound a steel spike right
through the battery, causing a dead short through all its layers. Also the short-circuit voltage vs. temp test - the battery gets hot but does not burn, outgas, or explode. This is a nasty test
but LiFePO4 does it more safely than traditional Li-ion as the presentation makes clear.
If you have evidence Boeing specified LiFePO4 for their batteries, please provide it here.
- DL

On January 18, 2013 at 7:03am

John Fetter wrote:


Lead-acid automobile batteries are purpose designed to deliver very high currents briefly. They do not cycle very w ell. Most people are familiar w ith this type and mistakenly assume this
type represents lead-acid technology.
Lead-acid motive pow er batteries, in contrast, are purpose designed for cycling and, dollar for dollar, w ill outperform every other chemistry w hen used on deep discharge cycling duty.

On January 19, 2013 at 2:42am

James Bond, Jnr wrote:


Dick
I believe you introduced LiFePO4 into the discussion. There is obviously a difference betw een a battery that pow ers a handheld drill, small enough to have a steel spike driven through it
w ith impunity, and a very large battery, pow erful enough to start one of the largest turbofan jet engines currently in use.

On January 20, 2013 at 10:36am

Jason Lee wrote:


Thanks, Dick. That w as a very helpful post. +1 for you.

On January 29, 2013 at 12:49am

Silentcon wrote:
What level should i keep the battery? 30%-80% or 40%-90% ?

On February 6, 2013 at 9:46pm

Brad P wrote:
Seems like a lot of people more expert than me here.
I just bought an expensive Li-ion pow ered car (no gas, only battery pow ered). The batteries w ere manufactured by a leading global manufacturer. The car w as delivered to me w ith the
batteries in sleep mode, in w hich state it had been for at least a w eek, probably tw o, possibly longer. I believe the batteries discharged to 2.6% of their recommended full charge, sleep
mode kicking in at about 5-6% of full charge. I am being told orally by the car company that there has been no damage to the cars battery (about half the value of the car), and that there
is no chance of any copper shunts having developed, and that the car could have continued to sleep for another 4 months until any damage w ould occur. After ow ning and charging it
for a month, I see w hat looks like 25% more daily idle battery discharge from my battery than others are experiencing. Should I believe them and not press any claim?

On February 12, 2013 at 1:25am

Greg Zeng wrote:


So many comments, so could you add the last date of the original, so that w e can avoid reading old comments?
In case not covered:
1) Battery charger sometimes breaks e.g. inbuilt charger of mobile devices, especially if subject to heat, dust, vibration & fluids (including humidity). Most comon in old mobile phones.
2) Electrical contact deterioration, as in the first point, but betw een battery, charger or the device, or combination of all of these. Repaired by cleaning & stopping vibration.
3) Premature aging (battery and/ or charger). Statistical bad luck of factory production, especially after ageing, heat, moisture, vibration effects.

On February 18, 2013 at 3:05am

Fin wrote:
Thanks for the good advice. I have a question if the laptop battery runs out very quickly (3-4 min), this means that it is already broken, and yet somehow you can recalibrate it, fix it?

On February 23, 2013 at 10:21pm

Avi wrote:

Samsung Galaxy Note II has a 3100mAH Li-ion battery. Some Internet sites suggest charging the battery w hen it reaches 10%, w hile other sites suggest connecting the charger w hen it
reaches 50% - any ideas w hich might be correct?
Thanks!

On March 1, 2013 at 2:41am

KU wrote:
Does anyone know the improvement in the # of cycles if the charge discharge is 0.5C instead of 1C

On March 20, 2013 at 7:01am

James Bond, Jnr wrote:


Great new s! Boeing sorted out their lithium ion battery problem. They seemed to have brushed the engineers aside, proudly brought in a team of legal-minded johnnies, w ho proceeded to
tell everyone they had know n about the problem since 2008, just did not use that solution because the paperw ork w as out of sequence.

On March 21, 2013 at 2:06am

Alan wrote:
@Avi: If you read the article above, you w ill see a Depth of Discharge (DoD) table w ith the follow ing information:
100% DoD ==> 300 500
50% DoD ==> 1,200 1,500
Fudging the numbers in the table, you can get:
90% DoD ==> 480 - 700
80% DoD ==> 560 - 900
And so on. Based on that, I suggest you do not let your battery drop low er than 30%. In addition, if possible do not charge your battery to 100%.

On April 11, 2013 at 4:38am

James Bond, Jnr wrote:


Not such great new s. Same lithium ion battery manufacturer, batteries fitted to Mitsubishi electric cars. Caught fire, at least one car totally destroyed. Simple problem + organization w ith
vested interests + facility to hide behind law yers = next to zero problem solving capacity.

On May 21, 2013 at 10:15pm

tOM wrote:
For desktop UPS use in a laptop, you probably w ant to maximise your battery years by charging only to 3.92v, w hich corresponds to 50% charge.
For portable use, you just w ant to recharge to 50% if it gives you enuff life, or w hatever level does give you enough life.
Ideally, a battery management program w ould allow several charging targets:
- MAX portable runtime (ie, 100%)
- UPS use (eg, as desktop computer or low -usage phone days) (3.92v or 50%)
- several steps in betw een MAX and UPS for flexibility.
My Dell 5720 laptop has a desktop usage charging scheme w hich keeps the charge betw een 70 & 80%

On June 4, 2013 at 2:14pm

Martin Rosen wrote:


I have just bought an iPad. When is the optimum time to charge it up?

On June 9, 2013 at 6:43am

John Gurski wrote:


I just purchased a cell phone and w as w ondering if I purchased a replacement battery but never charged it keeping as a spare w ould this be possible or do Lithium Ion batteries degrade
w ith non use. The phone is an off brand and I am w orried w hen the original batteries loses storage capacity I may not be able to find a replacement.
Thanks for your great informative w ebsite.

On June 9, 2013 at 8:04am

Dick Lawrence wrote:


Many Li-ion batteries w ill hold charge and maintain their performance for a decade or more. If youve read everything on this forum you should have enough info to keep your spare
battery good for many years. I w ould summarize it as: keep the battery in a cool place, charge it once, discharge it to 40-50% charge, and then leave it alone until you need it. - DL

On June 13, 2013 at 1:48pm

Steve Mullis wrote:

I am using a Nikon Coolpix 8700 camera. The camera came w ith a 7.4v 700 mAh battery. I need replacement batteries. I see batteries advertised at anyw here from 700 -1500 mAh. I w as
told that due to the physical size of the battery it cannot be manufactured w ith greater than 800 mAh. I understand how to prolong the battery life (I suppose it w ouldnt hurt to put them
into a refrigerator or surround them w ith a cold blue ice back). Is the information I received correct (re: mAh) or should I attempt to purchase a battery w ith the highest possible rating?

On June 28, 2013 at 11:07am

Alex wrote:
The study show s that 10% and 25% depth of discharge w as not as good as 50% (table 2) but w ould have liked to see the 75% and 90% depth of discharge data as those w ould be
more practical options. That is noone is going to regularly recharge battery at 90% charge or even 75% charge. It w ould be useful to know w hether to target a recharge at 50% or w ould
recharging at 25% charge or 10% charge be even better or substantially w orse?
Alex

On July 19, 2013 at 6:47am

Derek wrote:
I must say the Galaxy S3 battery must be leaps and bounds ahead of the information here and on w ikipedia.
I have discharged my battery below 5% about 10 times in the first 3 w eeks and let it run to 0% tw ice. I have now taken steps to charge the battery at about 30%. How ever, the battery
monitor pro app currently estimates its capacity as 2143mah so doesnt seem to have affected it.
The spare battery (official GS3 accessories pack) has only lost 4% pow er after 1.5 months of storage time starting on 100%.
What Id like more information about is table 3 because I dislike w hat is being said there and the numbers look suspicious relative to the w ords. Surely the battery does not lose 20% of its
maximum capacity permanently after 3 months if it is sitting at 100% and 25 degrees? I mean if the spare GS3 battery only lost 4% temporarily (ie. can be recovered via charging), surely it
has not lost 15% permanently in just 1.5 months.
If this statement w as true then spare batteries can only ever have 40% of the original maximum capacity if stored at 100% for a year.

On August 14, 2013 at 7:01pm

Alvin wrote:
To: Walt Borntrager
Your statement about lithium ion memory has been backed up by some research.
http://w w w .nature.com/nmat/journal/v12/n6/full/nmat3623.html
Here w e report a memory effect in LiFePO4one of the materials used for the positive electrode in Li-ion batteriesthat appears already after only one cycle of partial charge and
discharge
It doesnt say its ruined, but it remembers a partial charge.after one cycle.

On August 16, 2013 at 11:28am

Drew wrote:
I have seen that most Li-ion are charged to 3.7V. I have an application w hich requires 3.9-4V. Would anybody supply me a battery and charger charged to 3.9V-4V?

On August 19, 2013 at 9:25am

Fred Johnston wrote:


I recently purchased 6 Li-Ion batteries for our 2 Samsung Galaxy Note 2 Phablets, and the batteries only get 50-75% of w hat the OEM 3100mAh batteries that came w ith the phone, yet
they rate their batteries at 3500mAh. I complained, and they told me to fully charge and discharge 5-6 times as this w ould improve the capacity. This w ill take me a long time to cycle
through all of my batteries in this fashion. Are they BSing me or can this be true???
Also, if possibility of being true (from w hat Im reading here, that should not be the case) is there a good w ay to discharge them faster (eg rig up something w ith a resistor so I dont need
to run my phone through all of these exercises??

On August 19, 2013 at 10:05am

john h wrote:
There are some free Aps you can get w hich w ill discharge the batteries for you, so I w ould recommend doing that instead of the science lab version; although you can certainly connect
them to a resistor and discharge manually.
My ow n opinion is that w hoever sold you these is blow ing smoke to stall you and prevent you from asking for a refund. I have heard mixed opinions both here and other places about the
validity of exercising a lithium battery, but the technique suggested to you sounds more like a NiCad strategy to me. I cant find the link right now , but there is a guy w ho has a pretty good
blog dedicated to review ing the various replacement batteries out there. Maybe you can do a search and locate it. He has found that many, many of them are lying about the actual
capacity of the cells. So w hat you have may be a decent quality battery, but it does not have the claimed capacity.

On August 19, 2013 at 10:31am

Fred Johnston wrote:


Thanks John sort of w hat Im thinking too (blow ing smoke and delay tactic). I do have, and have used, a fast discharger, but they chew up the phone and still make it unavailable for
hours, and really heat it up so Im looking for a kinder w ay (as my previous Galaxy S2 died and I think part may be to trying this in the past to many batteries)... it is a LOT harder on the
phone than the batteries! If you happen to be able to locate that blog, w hat w ould be helpful (but only if easy for you to find)... many thanks!... good site, this one.

On August 19, 2013 at 11:21am

john h wrote:
FredI think this is the site: http://w w w .batteryreview .info/ I purchased 2 of the Gorilla Gadgets high capacity for the Galaxy S3. I hated running from charger to charger. Now I have one in the
phone, w hich averages about 3 days w ith my usage, and I carry the other charged one and simply change out. I dont ever use the charger that connects to the phone-just a cube-style
charger that plugs in to the w all; leave it overnight, and then take it w ith me. I have concluded that the w hole idea of obtaining maximum life and output is not as relevant as reliability and
consistency- realistically nobody keeps devices that long any more. I probably throw aw ay devices that have better batteries in them than w hat I w as getting brand new 10 years ago.
I love this site, I w ish there w as a more active discussion forum. There are a lot of smart people w ho visit here.

On August 20, 2013 at 11:12am

Rupesh wrote:
I have a question - I see lot of experts here, I w ould be thankfull if someone can answ er this question.
I am using a Mobile Device Sony Xperia Tipo inside the Bus and it has to be kept permanently charged as w e are using its Bluetooth capability.
Will there be any safety problem related to this use, I w ould be using it 24x7 and the mobile w ould alw ays be connected to the charger.
Please assist w ith your valuable feedback/comments/suggestion
Rupesh

On August 20, 2013 at 3:39pm

Vaib wrote:
I w ent through this article its true. being an electronics Engineer . it is w ell know n that charging and discharging are Properties of a battery. but I had experienced I used my laptop hp
mostly on AC . I still even after 50 months m getting 35 minutes battery back up . My ColleaguE s use their laptop on charging and disparaging process their batteries dies in just around
30months so s prefer to use it on ac but must be aw are of heating phenomena . I tired it on my Samsung smart phone too it is giving back same w hen I buyed it 1 year ago. . . so nothing
harm on using your li battery until it heats up . . thanks for this superb analysis . . .

On August 20, 2013 at 3:43pm

Martin Rosen wrote:


I have recently bought an iPad. I w ould like someone to tell me how to keep it in optimum performance, in particular the battery.
Thanks.

On August 21, 2013 at 1:53am

Rahul wrote:
I still dont understand w hy any of the people above still havnt understood w hat the author means be a cycle. If DOD is 10% (100% to 90%) it constitute only 0.1 cycle and not 1 full cycle.
So only by doing that 10 times w ill make a cycle. So total energy produced during the batterys lifetime w ill be 100 times compared to 100% DOD. I hope atleast some of you are able to
understand this now .

On August 22, 2013 at 7:19am

john h wrote:
From a pure engineering perspective, your point is taken. How ever, many of the people here are seeking practical w ays to extend the life of their batteries. The extreme example is if you
never discharge the battery, it should last forever. Not only is this untrue, it also completely defeats the purpose of having a portable device in the first place. I believe the
misunderstanding may lie in the definition of a cycle; even the author points out that there is disagreement among experts. How many of us have had the experience of taking care of a
battery by keeping it constantly charged only to discover the capacity of the battery has diminished rapidly anyw ay? I think there are other factors that may override the basics of DOD
and total number of cycles. In one of these articles the author points out that the w orst thing you can do to your battery is to use it w hile you are charging, yet that is w hat most of us are
constantly doing w ith a cell phone; It gets low on charge, and you still need to use it, so you plug it in and continue your conversation. The author suggests that this induces many tiny
cycles of charge/discharge, in turn creating lots of heat, w hich might account for the shortened battery life over time.

On August 22, 2013 at 1:35pm

John wrote:
My Samsung NC10 netbook w hen new ran on battery for 4 hours and 20 minutes. After three and a half years it still gave 3 hours and 30 minutes on battery. Hardly ever used on
charger. The BatteryBar app show ed 28% w ear after around 1500 charge cycles. Is this battery exceptional?

On August 28, 2013 at 11:19am

Marc wrote:
This article sais: Environmental conditions, and not cycling alone, are a key ingredient to longevity, and the w orst situation is keeping a fully charged battery at elevated temperatures. This
is the case w hen running a laptop off the pow er grid. Under these conditions, a battery w ill typically last for about tw o years, w hether cycled or not.
But w hats w orse, running your laptop of the pow er grid (thus having a fully charged bettery) or stop charing w hen its at 80%, drain it to 30-40% and charge again?
Im asking because in w hen you run it of the grid, the battery becomes w arm w hilst being full. When not running of the pow er grid, youre causing another cycle, and it only has a limited

amount of cycles. Whats the least bad for my battery?

On October 3, 2013 at 1:17am

hasanat wrote:
informativesite. I like this.

On October 12, 2013 at 8:03pm

Sachin wrote:
I bought a tab w ith lithium polymer battery one part of the article stated charging it to low er voltage w ill extend battery life.. is it good to charge at 75% or 80% I can compromise w ith
battery run time but cannot w ith its lifespan..
I have battery vehicle too and any suggestions are appreciated..

On November 23, 2013 at 5:57pm

highks wrote:
Very good to know that keeping LiIon batteries at full charge is actually not a good idea. I alw ays thought, keep them all as full as possible to storage but now I know Id rather not do
that anymore.
I also didnt know that higher temperatures are that bad for LiIon batteries - and I alw ays w ondered w hy notebook batteries die relatively quickly coompared to other batteries, like in
camcorders.
It really is a shame that no notebook manufacturer has a 50% charge option. It w ould still be good enough to use as a ups in case of a pow er outage, but the battery could last for 5 years
or even more. But w hen you look at the prices for original spare batteries, I guess that is w hy they w ont do it. Rather make some dough on spare batteries every tw o years

On November 24, 2013 at 3:32pm

Dr Jack wrote:
A modest genius.

On December 8, 2013 at 10:38pm

Abhishek Gupta wrote:


Nice Tips! Look, you must Dim your screen Most laptops come w ith the ability to dim your laptop screen. Some even come w ith w ays to modify CPU and cooling performance. Cut them
dow n to the low est level you can tolerate to squeeze out some extra battery juice.http://w w w .stensly.com/2013/12/how -to-extend-battery-life-of-your-laptop.html

On December 14, 2013 at 11:29pm

Niraj wrote:
I have a ASUS laptop and its advertised battery backup time is ~ 3-4 hours. How ever I have got more than 9 hours of battery backup. No I am not kidding. This w as w hen I used my laptop
somew hat sparingly and did this on purpose to find out the maximum battery backup.
My settings 1. Display is alw ays 0, the low est brightness possible. The background is full black, screensaver is full black, brow ser background is full black. In general in every softw are if it is
possible to have total pitch black background I go for it. Actually it looks very sleek and you may not recognize it is the same as your usual softw ares. I do it primarily yo save my eyes [oh
yes, i love my eyes more that the environment] but it also prolongs battery life.
2. w hen running on battery, my processor is underclocked to 60%.
3. my laptop is set to sw itch the display off after 1 minute. the laptop itself never sleeps or hibernates. i dont like to w ait for my machine to sw itch on if i resume my w ork. the HDD is put to
sleep after 20 minutes of inactivity.
4. my laptop is NEVER sw itched off. this one is about 6 months old and I have sw itched it off for more than an hour only 3-4 times. Moreover it is permanently connected to the AC pow er.
so far my laptop has run on battery (for more than a couple of hours) only tw ice in the last six months.
the result is that my battery is almost as good as new . any battery show s strength decay only after about 100 discharge cycles. mine has been to only (maximum) five discharge cycles
and I intend to keep it that w ay. no w onder I get such a long backup.

On December 17, 2013 at 10:04am

Bruno wrote:
I have a new Asus s400 ultrabook. It has a built-in battery so removal is not an option. I have read that partial discharges are the best for longevity of the battery. So my question is do I
use the laptop on battery till it drops to about 70% battery life and then plug in and top it up. Do I use this method unless I need to be aw ay from ac pow er.?I w ant to do the best for the
battery. Thanks

On January 9, 2014 at 2:46am

James Johnson wrote:


Yes, partial discharge is better than full discharge, but also partial charge (meaning - not fully charging the battery) is better than full charge. Keeping the battery alw ays at full charge and
especially plugged on a charger for long time w ill shorten its life. http://j.gs/3HYu

On January 11, 2014 at 3:50pm

Jason Seibel wrote:


For my new laptop, I w ant to maximize its battery capacity so that w hen i have a big trip, i can make the most out of a full charge. Based on this article i am w ondering w hich of these tw o
methods w ould w ork best (unless i am w rong either w ay).
1. I keep battery betw een 40 and 70 percent charge all the time. My reasoning is that I w ant to keep the voltage per cell low by not charging it too high, and I w ant to make the depth of
discharge as low as possible since i w ill be using it at home and w ill alw ays have a charger available.
2. Keep battery betw een 20 and 50 percent. - same logic, but I think keeping the voltage even low er by not charging my laptop above 50 percent w ill also help improve battery life.
I am also w ondering if even doing a cycle betw een 20 and 80 percent charge w ould be significant enough to increase battery life. I have an Acer V7 - 482PG-6629

On January 18, 2014 at 10:21am

David Smith wrote:


Great article and a lot of good info in the discussion.
While I know next to nothing compared to a lot here I just had to jump in w th my thoughts.
When you consider the cost versus the lifetime of these packs they are not that expensive, baby them and get say 12 months against using them w ithout w orrying about longevity, but not
abusing them, and getting 9 months, say you pay $60 for the battery, thats $5 a month babying against $6.66 a month w ithout w orrying, is all the fuss w orth $1.66 a month ?
I use 16650 3000mah batteries in high pow ered modded led flashlights, they are alw ays fully charged w hen not in use, often have 3A or 4A load on them, never taken below 2.8 v
although sometimes taken to 3v, the lights get hot, the battery compartment sometimes getting to 50c or so, is this abuse, you bet, w ill it shorten there lifespan, yes, but I am prepared to
put up w ith it to follow this hobby, w hat I am getting at is sometimes you just have to do w hat you have to do, and if that means discharging the batteries until you laptop tells you they are
flat, then just accept you have shortened the life of the battery a tiny little bit and move on.
I am in no w ay putting dow n anyone here, treat them nice and they last longer, of special interest to myself w as not leaving a laptop pack out of the laptop for more than about a month,
my w ife has tw o packs and she just leaves one pack out fully charged until she needs it, not now she w ont
Cheers David

On January 24, 2014 at 10:46pm

riot wrote:
hi
should i remove my hp625 battery w hile gaming or w atching movies, the indicator says not charging w hen the battery reaches its full condition and i heard that if you remove battery it w ill
cause damage to laptop w hile in serius actions that need some extra pow er and actually the battery can w ork as an back up pow er to save hardw ares

On February 6, 2014 at 12:48pm

mehdi wrote:
Hi, I purchased a laptop computer w ith embedded battery (the battery cant be removed) and Im w ondering if I need to calibrate the battery or not? The seller told me that it is needed and I
have to discharge and charge it 3 times in order to be calibrated (I do it once till now ).
Another issue: do you recommend keeping the battery charge in 40% or its not necessary?
My laptop computer w ill turn off by 7% of battery charge (my experience of first discharge). I use my laptop most of the time at home. Which strategy best maintain my battery health?
My laptop name: Sony VAIO Fit 15 SVF15A18CX
Battery Type : Standard Lithium Ion Battery (VGP-BPS34 3650mAh)
Battery Life : Up to 3 hours and 45 minutes10
Thanks.

On February 12, 2014 at 7:30am

Riot wrote:
Hi Mehdy
As the battery can not be removed never let it go below 80% or gradualy it w ill get old, you use it at home right? so w hy not plugged in w hile in home
Everyone know s that battery killers are charge and discharge plus heat

live happy homie

On February 16, 2014 at 7:59am

Mehdi wrote:
Thank You for responding. As I understand the heat produced by keeping the battery in full charge condition is less harmful for battery health than charging and discharging of the li-ion
battery each time?

On February 25, 2014 at 10:30am

Riot wrote:
My hp625 battery never gather heat because it is full charged and conected to the w all socket, do not place the machine on carpet, clothes or such stuff that cover fan holes.
off course discharging ages the battery

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