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BlackBird
Posts: 1872
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009
12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand
metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords
with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70
Kitagiri Sutta
o
p
http://www.dhammagiri.org.au/bhikkhu-dhammasiha.html
cooran
Posts: 8159
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009
11:32 pm
Location: Queensland,
Australia
There are many Dhamma talks available to those interested - why not just work hard to attain
Nibbana while you have this inestimable good fortune?
With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time-----Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
BlackBird
Posts: 1872
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009
12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand
I feel this would have great value to people studying the teaching of the Buddha in the west, by
showing how Buddhism is practiced in the context of Buddhist culture. The forest tradition is
much talked about but actually little known outside of Sri Lanka and rural Thailand. It would
have been very helpful to me to have this knowledge when I was approaching the teaching of
the Buddha. What do you think?
Hi Bhante
It's not my place to tell you what you should do with your time, so I won't, I'll just say what I
would/will do myself. I think in the same situation I would wait until I had a few years under
my belt as a Bhikkhu, a good grasp of what it takes to stick it out over the years long term
before I took to teaching, or to making videos of others teaching, but that is a personal
decision. Making videos of talks of other monks and sending them through your self described
factory sounds like quite an involved process, and personally, it's something that I feel would
greatly detract from my meditation and satipatthana time, which again as a putthujana one
can never get enough of.
As much as I enjoy giving back and helping others to learn (that's in essence my day job) I love
solitude just as much, and I think that when I ordain I have a duty to become an Ariyan so that
I'm not, as the Buddha says: Eating the almsfood of a nation as a debtor. I think that when I
decide to teach or to help others in a way as you describe, I want it to come not from craving
(which is inevitably the lot of the non-ariyan, albeit a skillful craving), but only from stainless
aneja compassion.
I think back over the bast 8 or so years that I've been doing this, and I can remember more
times than I can count on one hand where I thought I'd made it to stream entry or beyond,
when in fact I had just been led astray by deep concentration. My first inclination when that
had happened was to start trying to share the goodness so to speak, I felt like I'd won it all in
the lottery and I had so much to give. But in the end even though unlike being a monk, there is
no rule against lay people making declarations of such achievements, I didn't do so publicly
ever, and even then, when I came to my senses so to speak - I felt very foolish for having been
so certain, but then again good concentration does supress the hinderances to an extent that
they do feel like they're absent, and in that headspace it's not hard to be fooled by it. At any
rate I feel I have long since come to the conclusion that declaring one's supposed attainment to
anyone other than very close and trusted friends, is actually a hindrance not only to what one
might wish to achieve in future, but to one's current life and ease.
As for transitioning to the Buddhist monkhood, I note that you expressed frustration about
being treated as "the new boy" by some senior monk, when in your previous religion and
tradition you were a 'guru' with your own followers. I feel it's too important to let this one go
(in respect to the potential for a positive resolution) and I will only be able to judge in
retrospect whether it will be right speech or not:
The truth of the matter is that when it comes to ordaining in the Buddhist sangha, no matter
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
what position one has held in one's previous life, be it a king, or a minister, or a guru,
compared to those who ordain you, the elder monks, the majjhima monks, and even those who
have been a monk only a day longer than oneself - One IS the new boy. One isn't entitled to
be respected as though they are a senior teacher, one must be humble and suck it up, and bow
to everyone and nip any egoism in the bud - Because that's a very importance facet of the
training that the Buddha laid out. That's our tradition, the way it's been since the Buddha's
day: Brahmins (which is a comparible position to your own in your former occupation) in the
Buddha's time quite often converted to his Dhamma, but they were told that they had to give
up any notions of seniority or elder status, and start again fresh. Back in those days (and most
of the time today) followers of other sects had to be put on probation for a good while before
they were given the higher ordination. This in part was so that they learned the importance of
the fact that in the Buddha's dispensation, they were like newborns again. This has so many
benefits, not in the least is that it is so easy for humility to translate into concentration and
wisdom. So if it were me converting, I'd try and see the submission as a good thing, not an
affront
Again, do not think I am suggesting anything about your own situation or preaching to you
because that's not the case, but since you asked for our thoughts, that is how I feel about my
own, and my own if I were in your shoes (as for a bit of background info, I read your blog and
the statements contained within it).
So anyway, It's not my position to judge you on your claims or to suggest to you what you should
do - I'm just a fool, albeit one conscious of his own foolishness, which I guess as the
dhammapada has it, is the lesser of two evils - So you can take what I have to say or leave it,
and I have a feeling it'll be the latter, but that satisfies my urge in any case to offer what I can
With metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords
with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70
Kitagiri Sutta
o
p
pilgrim
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon Oct 19,
2009 2:56 pm
o
p
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
melancholy
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Nov 25,
2013 4:40 pm
NyanasaraThero wrote:
Hello All,
I am a recently ordained Western monk in Sri Lanka, staying at a tiny forest monastery near
Haputale. I built a kuti here before ordaining and now I stay mostly in reclusion, which I find
quite suitable for meditation. However I would very much like to connect with other Englishspeaking monks in Sri Lanka ...
since he is recently ordained probably not having 10 vassas as a bhikkhu, unless relatively
speaking with the length of the samsara! also possible he may not know the meaning of the
word "thero".
i think the below sutta (an 6.14) answered about "very much like to connect with other Englishspeaking monks."
Then Ven. Sriputta said to bhikkhus: Friends, in which abiding, a bhikkhus death and his
spending the time would not be
auspicious? A bhikkhu fond of delighting in crowd and company. Hence, he becomes fond of
delighting in talk and conversation. . . .
sleep . . . company . . . association . . . proliferation . . . Thus, to this is said a bhikkhu indulges
in the self does not dispel it for the
rightful destruction of suffering.
Last edited by melancholy on Mon May 05, 2014 3:11 am, edited 4 times in total.
memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=111
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
seeker242
Posts: 362
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2012
3:01 am
o
p
BlackBird
Posts: 1872
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009
12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand
Bhante stated in two of his posts he is recently ordained. Yes, generally Thero is a title
reserved for 10 plus vassas, but some groups it seems lately use thero just to signify a fully
ordained bhikkhu (quite without precedent). Furthermore, since Bhante is advanced in years
and thero means 'venerable elder' (iirc) it is possible he just likes the title.
In any case, it is clear that such appropriation of a term usually reserved for an elder Bhikkhu is
liable to cause confusion as we have seen here.
metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords
with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70
Kitagiri Sutta
o
p
Its unclear how much of a "new boy" Bhante Nyanasaro is, as he carries the title of Thero,
meaning one with at least 10 vassas in the bhikkhu sangha.
Aloka
Posts: 4470
Joined: Wed Jan 21,
2009 2:51 pm
I think Nyanasaro Thero was quite recently known by the name of "Buddha Dave" on the
internet.(see memberlist)
http://www.dhammawheel.com/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6403
Last edited by Aloka on Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries.com/forum.php
o
p
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
Dhammanando
Posts: 2496
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008
10:44 pm
Location: Wat Doi Phra
Koed, Chom Thong,
Chiang Mai
Then Ven. Sriputta said to bhikkhus: Friends, in which abiding, a bhikkhus death and his
spending the time would not be
auspicious? A bhikkhu fond of delighting in crowd and company. Hence, he becomes fond of
delighting in talk and conversation. . . .
sleep . . . company . . . association . . . proliferation . . . Thus, to this is said a bhikkhu
indulges in the self does not dispel it for the
rightful destruction of suffering.
When a junior bhikkhu seeks to make contact with other bhikkhus (as opposed to, say, drinking
pals, Boston Red Sox fans or whatever) would it not be more charitable to assume that his aim
is kalynamittat, not delighting in crowds?
Sundrromn
Pli Romnistion
sr: i u e o
kj: k
tluj: c j j
mudj:
dntj: t d n
oj: p b m
v: y r l v s h
niht: i
o
p
...
Hi Bhante
melancholy
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Nov 25,
2013 4:40 pm
It's not my place to tell you what you should do with your time, so I won't, I'll just say what I
would/will do myself. I think in the same situation I would wait until I had a few years under my
belt as a Bhikkhu, a good grasp of what it takes to stick it out over the years long term before I
took to teaching, or to making videos of others teaching, but that is a personal decision. Making
videos of talks of other monks and sending them through your self described factory sounds like
quite an involved process, and personally, it's something that I feel would greatly detract from
my meditation and satipatthana time, which again as a putthujana one can never get enough
of...
first, i must say sorry to BlackBird. i got the wrong impresson that you are having a go at
NyanasaraThero, but reading his other post http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?
f=10&t=19166&p=269753#p269753 justified what you wrote. lord buddha said humble buddhapabbajita's (ordained when old) are rare.
Dhammanando wrote:
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
i prefer facts rather than assumptions. in this sasana for what reason a monk should seek
kalynamittat?
NyanasaraThero wrote:
if he really wants to follow the nobel eight fold path does it matter to find a "teacher who had
knowledge of his background". if the glass is empty then the teacher can pour the dhamma
into it very easily.
NyanasaraThero wrote:
I have gradually set up a small video production facility, working toward the ability to have an
online Dhamma channel. I would like to visit various forest monasteries, taking video of
Dhamma talks by senior monks in English and Sinhala, documenting the life and practices of the
monks and so on.
this is kammaramata. to practice the path we don't need a video production facility and an
online dhamma channel ... etc.
NyanasaraThero wrote:
I have done lots of wilderness camping, and am right at home with nature and solitude. In fact I
prefer it. Nevertheless the gift of Dhamma is the greatest gift, and to this end I would like to
document the life of the upcountry forest monks and their insights into the Dhamma.
So according to him gift of dhamma is more important than practicing in solitude. arn't there so
much Dhamma available already? even those arahants at the lord buddha's time didn't have this
much!
Last edited by melancholy on Mon May 05, 2014 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
o
p
SarathW
Posts: 4264
Joined: Mon Sep 10,
2012 2:49 am
even those arahants at the lord buddha's time didn't have this much!
==============
May this could be the reason that I am not an Arahant yet.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
o
p
our
BlackBird
Posts: 1872
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009
12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords
with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70
Kitagiri Sutta
o
p
Dhammanando
Posts: 2496
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008
10:44 pm
Location: Wat Doi Phra
Koed, Chom Thong,
Chiang Mai
NyanasaraThero wrote:
I have gradually set up a small video production facility, working toward the ability to have
an online Dhamma channel. I would like to visit various forest monasteries, taking video of
Dhamma talks by senior monks in English and Sinhala, documenting the life and practices
of the monks and so on.
this is kammaramata.
This seems an odd assertion from someone who professes to prefer facts over assumptions. I
mean how do you know that it's kammrmat and not, say, a compassion-motivated wish to
share the Dhamma or something else of a kusala character?
The rmat in kammrmat (delight in work) is a state of mind, specifically, a state of
delighting in new work (navakamme ramanakabhva) and being addicted (anuyutta) to much
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
work. It isnt defined as doing a lot of work. nanda, for example, as the Buddhas
attendant did a lot of work, but since this was motivated by his solicitude for the Buddhas
material welfare and not by addiction, the texts never refer to it as kammrmat.
As it's a state of mind, whether or not somebody has fallen into kammrmat cannot be
reliably known from the fact that he works much, any more than a person's freedom from
kammrmat can be known from the fact that he works little. It can only be reliably known
by cetopariyayaa or else by the more familiar means of knowing anothers character: living
with him, conversing with him, observing how he handles hardship (e.g. when hes deprived of
the opportunity to work), and doing all this for a long time. Not merely by reading a couple of
posts to an online forum from a complete stranger.
Sundrromn
Pli Romnistion
sr: i u e o
kj: k
tluj: c j j
mudj:
dntj: t d n
oj: p b m
v: y r l v s h
niht: i
o
p
venerable sir, he is not a complete stranger. he was registered by another user name, which is
deleted now, so as his other posts! you may have gain a better idea to whether how much he is
addicted to work or not by looking at his other urls. but they are removed from his profile too.
melancholy
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Nov 25,
2013 4:40 pm
Last edited by melancholy on Wed Dec 04, 2013 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
Mellancholy
You wrote:
even those arahants at the lord buddha's time didn't have this much!
melancholy
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon Nov 25,
2013 4:40 pm
==============
May this could be the reason that I am not an Arahant yet.
Too much reading not enough practice!
before his parinibbana lord buddha said he had given the required teachings without hiding
anything. he also pointed to the sangha (i think 500) and said least is a sotapanna, and no
single argument among them about the path or the way.
since lord buddha's parinibbana how much dhamma had accumulated, is it what he gave is not
enough or we know better? also how many people argue about the path these days saying our
"method" is correct others' not!
this is solely my opinion, what i can see these days is more knowledge more confusion, less
practice.
o
p
SarathW
Posts: 4264
Joined: Mon Sep 10,
2012 2:49 am
as Vipassana Meditation.
to rely on books. Most of the books are re-affirming
the thripitaka. It is like revision of thripitaka.
By the way I enjoy reading.
o
p
Mkoll
Posts: 4838
Joined: Wed Dec 05,
2012 6:55 pm
Location: California, USA
Dear Sarath,
I am curious of the reasons for why you think this.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
May be contemplation on past experience is not come under strict Vipassana meditation. (even
if we think something is present it is actually the past)
I think reading a book requires some form of momentary concentration.
I also consider reading a book as some form of experience.
=========================
(4) Contemplation of Phenomena (dhammanupassana)
In the context of the fourth foundation of mindfulness, the multivalent word dhamma (here
intended in the plural) has two interconnected meanings, as the account in the sutta shows.
One meaning is cetasikas, the mental factors, which are now attended to in their own right
apart from their role as coloring the state of mind, as was done in the previous contemplation.
The other meaning is the elements of actuality, the ultimate constituents of experience as
structured in the Buddha's teaching.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... d.html#ch8
o
p
BlackBird
Posts: 1872
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009
12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords
with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70
Kitagiri Sutta
o
p
pulga
Posts: 684
Joined: Sun Nov 14,
2010 3:02 pm
The Buddha tells us (in the Itivuttaka III,30: 71-2) that three things harm the progress of the
sekha bhikkhu (one who has reached the Path but who has not arrived at arahatship): fondness
for work (i.e. building, sewing robes, doing odd jobs, and so on), fondness for talk, and
fondness for sleep. In the first two, as we can see, much awareness must be devoted to
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19043&start=20[11/8/2558 13:36:24]
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