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Q. Would you state your name is spell your last name
for the record, please.
A. Walter Robert Schaefer, S C H A E F E R.
Q. Where are you employed?
A. With the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the Kansas
City division.
Q. And in the course of your employment, did you
conduct an investigation of allegations that Officers Jay
Bileck and Mickey Rantz of the Lawrence Police Department
were impersonating FBI officers?
A. Yes.
Q. And how did your involvement begin?
A. I was contacted by you about some allegations that
Lawrence PD were acting as FBI agents and the allegations
you relayed to me were made by Sarah Swain(ph).
Q. And did I tell you how to investigate?
A. No.
Q. Did I tell you what the conclusion of your
investigation should be?
A. No.
Q. What did I ask you to do?
You asked me to investigate the allegations.
Q. And report back?
A. We went over to Sarah Swain's office, she wasn't
there, we waited until she showed up. When she showed up,
we went inside, identified ourselves, told her I was there
regarding the allegations that she had made in an e-mail,
I believe, to you that she had a list of several people
who had been interviewed by the Lawrence PD who claimed
that the Lawrence PD was FBI agents. I asked her for that
list. She said she didn't have a list, that her

Q.Did you review a tape recording of the interview

with the person that they claimed had been saying that
FBI -- they were told that they were FBI agents?
A. Sarah Swain sent an affidavit of someone who -- and
if I -- if I remember correctly, the affidavit stated that
an individual from the Lawrence PD -- who they later
learned was from Lawrence PD identified themselves as a
federal agent or working with federal agents.
That affidavit I got several weeks after my
initial meeting with Sarah Swain.
Q. Was that the affidavit from Ms. Helm?
A. Yes.
Q. Were you ever able to make contact with Ms. Helm?
A. No.
Q. Why not?
A. Sarah Swain called and left me a voice mail message
on my voice mail saying I've set up a meeting in my office
with Ms. Helm on such-and-such date at such-and-such time.
I called her back, I said I was busy that day, I'd have to
reschedule. I never heard back from her. She sent a
letter to our office saying that I had stood her up at
this meeting, claimed that we weren't interested in
investigating this. My boss sent her a letter back saying if you
want to set up a meeting with Agent Schaefer, you
have to do it verbally, you know, you can't just leave a
voice mail message. I never heard back from her since
Q. Do you believe that you have done everything you can
to determine the truth of the allegations?
A. Yes.
Q. And after your investigation what conclusion did you
A. That the Lawrence PD did not act as FBI agents in
their investigation.
Q. All right. (Inaudible)?
A. No.
Q. Did you put together a (inaudible) file on this?
A. Yes.
Q. I'm going to show you what's marked as Government's
Exhibit 15, can you identify that?

A. This is the initial e-mail from Sarah Swain to you,

as well as Mr. Bileck making the allegations that -- well,
I'll read it. "I have been contacted by numerous
individuals who have reported to me that they have been
accosted by federal agents or held against their will
and/or interrogated" -Q. Before you read from that -MS. PARKER: Your Honor, the government

Q. (By Ms. Parker) All right. Now you can read it.
A. This is from Sarah Swain. "I have been contacted by
numerous individuals who have reported to me that they
have been accosted by, quote, federal agents and held
against their will and/or interrogated against their will.
I have been in contact with numerous community
organizations. I would appreciate any help you could give
me getting to the bottom of this."
Q. (By Ms. Parker) And that was the initial complaint
that you tried to follow up on?
A. Yes.
Q. But you were never able to obtain the necessary
information from Ms. Swain to support the allegations that
she or Ms. Helm were making?
A. No.
Q. Now, have you been following from time to time or
THE COURT: Cross-examination.
Q. My understanding is that entire content of this
investigation done at the request of Sarah Swain who is a
licensed attorney in the state of Kansas, is that a
correct statement?
A. She's the one who made the initial allegations to
Marietta who then relayed them to me.
Q. And Ms. Swain is a licensed attorney, to your
A. Yes.
Q. And as such is an officer of the court?
A. Yes.
Q. All right. So when she makes those sorts of
allegations, that's something that typically that your
office would take fairly seriously because as an officer

of the court if she makes allegations frivolously she

could lose her license to practice law?
A. I guess so, yeah.
Q. Are you an attorney?
A. No.
Q. Okay. I apologize for making that assumption.
In any event, you did want to follow
through with that -- with these allegations because there
was an attorney that had specifically said I have
information that Lawrence PD are impersonating FBI agents,
A. Correct.
Q. Now, this Cecelia Wood, did you get her address or
did you get her cell phone or get any information where
you could contact her directly without having to go
through this attorney, Sarah Swain?
A. Yeah, I got her -- I believe it was her cell phone
Q. Did you talk to Ms. Wood?
A. Yes, I did.
Q. And did Ms. Wood advise you that she had information
that she had received at the request or on behalf of
Ms. Swain about -- that would support the allegations that
the Lawrence PD had, in fact, been impersonating FBI
A. She said she had a list of about 10 to 12 names of
individuals who claimed Lawrence PD identified themselves
as FBI agents.
Q. And did you request that list from her?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you receive that list?
A. No.
Q. Did you send her a subpoena of any sort, a grand
jury subpoena?
A. No.
Q. Did you have a way to contact her personally through
the information that you had?
A. Yes, I had her cell phone number.
Q. Did you go and talk to her personally about that
A. No, I've only talked to her over the phone.
Q. Okay. Is there a reason why you wouldn't have gone
to somebody personally that supposed had the witnesses'
names of people that would support some pretty serious
allegations, why you just wouldn't have gone to her

personally and asked her for that information?

A. I did ask her for that information. She said she
didn't want to give it to me because they were afraid of
retributions from the Lawrence PD or someone else. As far
as I'm concerned, that's an attorney-client deal and
that's as far as I could go with it.
Q. Was Ms. Wood an attorney?
A. Uh, I don't believe so, no.
Q. Okay. So did you ever conference with one of the
attorneys at the Department of Justice to see whether, in
fact, that was an attorney-client privilege?
Okay. Would it be fair to say that you did not
pursue this -- these allegations with very much fervor?
A. I don't think that would be fair to state, no. My
position is if you've got some allegations out there and
they don't want come forward with them, you know, what am
I going to do? I mean, her position was these people were
afraid to -- they didn't want their names given to me. I
mean, if someone's not going to make the allegation, what
am I supposed to do?
Q. Okay. Now Ms. Swain sent you an affidavit from
Ms. Helm, is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And was Ms. Helm, to your knowledge at the time the
affidavit was signed, a criminal defendant in any case?
A. Not to my knowledge, no.
Q. To your knowledge, was she a client of Ms. Swain?
A. I'm not sure.
Q. Can you tell us, please, what you did to follow up
in trying to ascertain the whereabouts of Ms. Helm?
A. I did leave a message with Sarah Swain that I would
like to talk to Ms. Helm in my office. And to call me and
set up some meeting and I never get a call back.
Q. Now, do you know that -- whether or not the
Neighbors called the Topeka division or office of the FBI
regarding this investigation?
A. I believe Guy Neighbors stopped by the Topeka
Q. And wasn't it true he was just trying to find out
what, in fact, had been done regarding this investigation?
A. I don't know what he was trying to find out. I know
he stopped by there, talked to some agents there.
Q. About this investigation involving the Lawrence PD
and the impersonation, correct?
A. I believe so.
Q. Well, did they -- do you know if they told him

whether or not there was, in fact, an investigation?

A. I think they told him that he was -- I think they
told him that they were aware he had been charged with a
crime and before he gave a statement, he might think about
going through his attorney first.
Q. Do you know whether or not they shared with him any
information regarding the underlying investigation into
the Lawrence Police Department?
A. I think he brought a binder full of -- of internet
notes and whatnot.
Q. Do you know if the agents there though answered his
questions about what had been done in relation to an
investigation to follow up as to what the Lawrence Police
Department was doing as it relates to the impersonation of
FBI agents? A. I don't know what they -- I don't know what they
told him.
Q. Did you have a conversation with him about the
meeting they had with Mr. Neighbors?
A. I think I got a voice mail from them saying they had
met with him and asked me to call them, I think, is
what -- I don't recall exactly what -- but they left me a
message saying that they had met with him. And I believe
they asked me to give him a call. 'Cause they were under
the impression that I didn't exist or something to that
effect or thought that it might be some type of coverup or
something like that.
Q. Did you, in fact, contact the Neighbors?
A. I believe I made a call to them and got an answering
Q. Did you know what the Neighbors' connection was with
these allegations, if they were coming from Ms. Swain?
A. I'm not following.
Q. Well, there were allegations coming through attorney
Sarah Swain -A. Uh-huh.
Q. -- that somebody in the Lawrence Police Department
had been impersonating someone from the Federal Bureau of
Investigation, correct?
A. Correct.
Do you know what the connection was between Guy or
Carrie Neighbors as to her desire to have that
investigation proceed?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So as far as you know, they might have had
information that would, again, substantiate these
allegations that were out there?

A. If they did, I didn't get it.

Q. All right. Now, the allegations were specifically
as to Officer Bileck and Detective -- or strike that,
Officer Rantz out of the Lawrence PD, is that correct?
A. Uh, I don't think it was that specific. I think it
was that there were several Lawrence PD officers who were
impersonating FBI agents. I believe that was the general
Q. Do you have the affidavit that Ms. Swain sent to you
from Ms. Helm?
A. No, I don't.
Q. Do you have your -- with you your case file
involving this investigation?
A. No, I don't have the case file, no.
Q. Is this Exhibit 15 that has a couple of e-mails and
a letter from Sarah Swain as well as a letter from, I
guess, your supervisor, that would not be the complete
case file in this matter, would it? A. No, it wouldn't.
Q. Where would the investigative file in this matter be
currently located?
A. It's at our office.
Q. Do you know on how many occasions the Neighbors
would have contacted the FBI to find out what had happened
as a result of their investigation of the Lawrence Police
A. Do I know how many times they contacted our office?
A. Yes, sir.
A. No, I -- I don't think I've ever been contacted.
Q. Well, I think you said they contacted the Topeka
division -A. Yes.
Q. -- on at least one occasion?
A. Right.
Q. Do you know on how many occasions they may have
contacted either the police or Topeka division or the
Kansas City division of the FBI regarding that?
A. No.
Q. Okay.
MR. DUMA: I don't have any further
questions. Thank you.
THE COURT: Miss Pilate?
Q. Agent Schaefer, I think you testified that you did
not interview any civilian witnesses in this

investigation, is that correct?

A. Uh -Q. Other than any conversations you may have had with
Ms. Swain?
A. No.
Q. Okay. So you didn't talk to any of the persons who
were allegedly the recipients of these misrepresentations
as to their contacts with the police?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Now, you understood that the persons who had
been the recipients of this misinformation and
misrepresentation were witnesses in the case against Guy
and Carrie Neighbors, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. And your relationship with law enforcement is such
that you could have called up Ms. Parker, could you not
have, and asked her who are some of the witnesses in this
A. I could have, yes.
Q. Okay. And if you had asked her that, she likely
would have provided you with names of witnesses against
Mr. and Ms. Neighbors, correct?
A. I would assume she would, yes.
Q. And you could have interviewed those witnesses to
see if they had been provided any misinformation about who
was contacting them, correct?
A. I could have.
Q. Okay. But you didn't do that, did you?
A. No.
Q. Now, are you aware of a meeting that occurred
between Agent Jentime(ph), am I pronouncing that right,
and Mr. Neighbors?
A. Just what I related before. I know he went in there
and met with him.
Q. Okay. Now, are you aware of any documents that were
turned over by Mr. Neighbors to Agent Jentime?
A. I don't know if he turned them over or brought them
with them, but what I read from Agent Jentime was that he
came in with a binder full of documents.
Q. Okay. And did you review any of those documents?
A. No.
Q. Are you aware of a statement made by a Brad
Perecko(ph) who states that he also was the recipient of
misinformation or misrepresentation as to the identity of
the law enforcement officers who were contacting him?
A. No.
Q. And did anyone ever tell you that Mr. Perecko stated

that Agent Bileck said to Ms. Neighbors -- or said with

regard to Ms. Neighbors that she is going down and she
will take her husband with her?
A. No, I'm not aware of that.
Q. Okay. So you don't know that Mr. Perecko had given
a statement to this effect?
MS. PARKER: Objection, that assumes facts
not in evidence that he gave a statement. The
officer said he doesn't know anything about it.
THE COURT: I think -- listen to the
question juxtapose (inaudible). Do you understand
the present question?
THE WITNESS: Could you run it by me again?
Q. (By Ms. Pilate) Let's go back a couple steps. You
knew that Mr. Neighbors had brought in some, quote,
internet notes, some kind of binder, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. But you don't know what, if anything, he actually
turned over to Agent Jentime, correct?
A. No.
Q. And what I want to know is if Agent Jentime told you
anything about an allegation or allegations from a Brad
Perecko that he had been contacted by law enforcement
agents who held themselves out as federal agents or agents
in connection with the federal investigation and that they
had said, with regard to Ms. Neighbors, she is going down
and she will take her husband with her?
A. I don't know anything about that.
Q. Okay. So Agent Jentime never told you that?
A. No.
Q. Okay. And specifically you were not aware that that
allegation in terms of any misrepresentation or any -- any
pressure that may have been implied in that, that that
concerned statements allegedly made by Officer Bileck,
you're not aware of that?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Have you ever investigated the Lawrence
Police Department other than this one investigation here?
A. No.
Q. Okay. Do you know of anybody in the FBI in this
area who has investigated the Lawrence Police Department?
MS. PARKER: Your Honor, at this point I'm
going to object to the broadness of the question.
I don't believe the issue is the Lawrence Police
Department, it is the witnesses -- specific

witnesses in this case who have been maligned.

THE COURT: Sustained.
Q. (By Ms. Pilate) Do you know if anyone in the FBI
has ever investigated any of the Lawrence police officers
whose actions are at issue in this case?
MS. PARKER: Objection, foundation.
There's no foundation that this agent knows who has
been involved in this investigation of the Lawrence
Police Department.
THE COURT: Well, the witness has already
answered. But the objection is overruled.
Q. (By Ms. Pilate) Okay. Agent Schaefer, you're aware
that there are a number of officers involved in this case,
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And would those officers include Officer
A. Yes.
Q. Okay. And Officer Rantz, R A N T Z, are you
familiar with that?
A. Yes.
Q. And a Detective McAtee, correct?
A. Correct.
Q. Are you aware of any other officers or detectives
from the Lawrence Police Department who are involved with
this case?
A. No.
Q. Okay. With regard to those three, are you aware of
whether the local FBI in this area, in this region, has
ever investigated any of those three officers?
A. I'm not aware.
Q. Okay. Do you know if the FBI has ever investigated
any allegations of evidence or property being lost or
otherwise disposed of by the Lawrence Police Department?
A. No, I'm not.
MS. PILATE: That's all I have. Thank you.
THE COURT: Redirect?
MS. PARKER: No, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You may step down. Thank you.
(Witness excused.)