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The Joy of Conservatism: An Interview with Roger
Scruton
Maxwell Goss
Roger Scruton is a philosopher, essayist, foxhunter, farmer, publisher, composer, and man of letters, as well as a contributor to
Right Reason, the weblog for philosophical conservativsm. He is also Britain's leading conservative intellectual and The
Meaning of Conservatism, which he wrote in 1980, is arguably the most important statement of the traditionalist conservative
outlook since Russell Kirk's The Conservative Mind (1953). One sign of the book's success is the hostility it provoked on the
left; the journal Radical Philosophy, for instance, described it as 'clearly too ghastly to be taken seriously.' Roger's recent
books include, among many others, The West and the Rest: Globalization and the Terrorist Threat (2002), News from
Somewhere: On Settling (2005), and the autobiographical Gentle Regrets: Thoughts from a Life (2005). Roger tells me he
has 'a strong attachment, recently acquired, to the Blue Ridge Mountains and the Hazel River.' He and his wife Sophie recently
bought a house in Virginia, and divide their time between rural America and rural England.
Roger graciously agreed to an interview on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of the publication of The Meaning of
Conservatism, now in its third edition. We discussed a range of subjects including the reaction to the book from left and right,
the possibilities and limitations of free markets, the U.S. Constitution, the nature of philosophy, the social function of
religion, the prospects for conservatism under Tony Blair and George W. Bush, and the joylessness of liberalism.
Max Goss: What prompted you to write The Meaning of Conservatism?
Roger Scruton: I wrote The Meaning of Conservatism in 1979, during the last year of a failing Labour Government, when
the Conservatives were in the process of choosing a new leader (Margaret Thatcher), and also looking around for a new
philosophy -- or rather any philosophy, having subsisted to that point without one. I was teaching in the University of London,
and had begun to take an interest in political thought. I was surprised to discover that the politics department of my college
library contained largely Marxist or sub-Marxist books, that major conservative thinkers like Burke, de Maistre and Hayek
were hardly to be found there, and that the journals were all uniformly leftist. Academic political science was in the style of
the New Left Review, with a strong leaning towards the idiocies of 1968, a sneering contempt for England and its heritage, and
a witch-hunting tone towards the opposition, which it dismissed as middle brow, middle class, and racist.
At the same time I was troubled to discover that the Conservative Party had no principle with which to oppose this kind of
'resentment politics,' other than the Free Market. I wanted to remind people that there really is a tradition of conservative
thinking in politics, that it is wiser and deeper than the left-liberal orthodoxies of the day, and that it is not reducible to free
market principles, even if it contains them.
It should be added that I would not have written the book, had I not been commissioned by Ted Honderich, then politics editor
at Penguin and also a University colleague, who was desperate to find someone, somewhere, however feeble, to defend the
conservative position. Meaning of Conservatism, the intellectual left -- whose ideas, emotions and very existence depends
upon a stance of opposition -- would have had nothing to oppose. Hence the book's appearance caused a huge sigh of relief
among my colleagues, who were at last able to hate again.
MG: What about the reaction among conservatives? I'm thinking in particular of your criticism of certain capitalist arguments.
While noting the conservative affinity for private property, you say these arguments 'present us with a vision of politics that is
desultory indeed, as though the sole aim of social existence were the accumulation of wealth and the sole concern of politics
the discovery of the most effective means to it.' Did your lack of enthusiasm for free markets win you a warm reception with
members of the Conservative Party?
Scruton: So far as I know The Meaning of Conservatism elicited no response whatsoever from the Conservative Party or
those connected with it. There was, at the time, a small circle of intellectual conservatives at the London School of Economics
-- a legacy from the days when Oakeshott and Popper both taught there -- and another at Cambridge. Neither of them seemed
to notice the book. The Conservative Party was very much in the grip of the free market ideology relayed by the Institute for
Economic Affairs. The view of the IEA at the time was that I, and the Salisbury Review which I founded, should be avoided, as
exhibiting dangerous tendencies towards extremism, fascism etc., or alternatively as being part of a sophisticated KGB
operation to split the Conservative Party. Later, however, the IEA's Social Affairs Unit, under the leadership of Digby
Anderson, developed in a direction that I felt closer to, and broke away from the IEA.
MG: What deleterious consequences result from the 'free market ideology' you mention? Are there particular economic
arrangements that conservatives ought to prefer?
Scruton: The free market is a necessary part of any stable community, and the arguments for maintaining it as the core of
economic life were unanswerably set out by Ludwig von Mises. [Friedrich] Hayek developed the arguments further, in order to
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the Supreme Court has been able to use its authority as constitutional arbiter to expropriate the law-making powers of the
Legislature. The doctrine of the division of powers is like the doctrine of the Trinity: it enshrines a mystery, and nobody really
knows how to keep the three powers separate but united. There is a constant danger that they will collapse into one, as they
have done under the rule of liberal judges in the Supreme Court.
The British experience is related but different. In our case the collapse has gone the other way, with the legislature displacing
and canceling the work of the courts. This is because we have a single chamber Parliament (the House of Lords now counting
for nothing) and an unwritten constitution that places no real brakes on the abuse of legislative power (witness the recent
Hunting Act). The conservative view, as I see it, is to advocate balance, which means respect offered by each organ of
government to the others, and a refusal to arrogate powers when there is any doubt concerning the right to do so.
I would also point out that the common law -- a great gift of history that both our countries still possess -- is both intrinsically
conservative, and better able to resolve social conflicts than the schemes of politicians.
MG: You are often described as a 'paleoconservative,' a term that Russell Kirk, who was described the same way, eschewed.
Do you accept this designation?
Scruton: I am not hostile to American neo-conservatism, which seems to me to show a commendable desire to think things
through and to develop an active alternative to liberalism in both national and international politics. But I suppose I am more
of a paleo than a neo-conservative, since I believe that the conservative position is rooted in cultural rather than economic
factors, and that the single-minded pursuit of competitive markets is just as much a threat to social order as the single-minded
pursuit of equality.
MG: What do you make of the critique of industrial society presented by the Southern Agrarians, or by contemporary agrarians
such as Wendell Berry?
Scruton: Things have moved on since the Southern Agrarians, who were able to enjoy the last twilight glow from a way of
life which now barely glimmers in the ashes. Of course people like Wendelll Berry will awaken a strong feeling of loss, and a
longing for homecoming, in many Americans. But the real conservative is the one who wishes to recuperate the lasting sense
of life and its value, even in circumstances that seem unpropitious -- such as those that prevail in a modern city. Industrial
society was rightly criticised from both the right and the left; but industrial society has all but disappeared. The future lies with
the self-employed, and it is for them to form the new communities, on the model of the old.
MG: The sort of conservatism you espouse is not easily expressed in slogans, nor do the arguments for it seem as easily
mastered as those advanced in behalf of more populist varieties. What hope, if any, does your vision of conservatism have for
gaining ascendancy?
Scruton: Of course it is not easy to put my kind of conservatism into slogans. That is a defect in slogans, and not in my
conservatism. You cannot put Hayek's theory of the common law, Kant's theory of republican government, or Hegel's theory
of civil society into slogans. But they are true, for all that. A philosophy is nothing if it does not aim at truth. (That is why
Jacques Derrida and Giles Deleuze are not philosophers.)
To aim also to persuade is commendable, and for this reason it is necessary for a political thinker to learn how to write. Marx
solved this problem, unfortunately, but then so did Burke. Good writing affects the minds of the literary elite, and ideas in the
minds of that elite will eventually filter down, to the point where some slick but ignorant journalist will find the slogans that
correspond, at his level of mental life, to those distantly and vaguely perceivable notions. This is in part what Plato had in
mind, when he advocated the noble lie. Not 'noble' but elegant; not a 'lie' but journalism.
MG: If you could persuade the governments of Prime Minister Blair or President Bush to take onboard one of the lessons of
your book, what would it be?
Scruton: My advice to Mr. Blair would be to stop pretending to be President and recognize instead that he is just a minister of
the Crown. The burden of my argument in The Meaning of Conservatism is that proven institutions are more precious than
the people who occupy them, and that those who exercise authority ought also to obey it. Mr. Blair has shown no disposition
to recognize that his authority has been conferred on him by institutions that he is duty-bound to respect. His frivolous attitude
to constitution, procedure and the dignities of office has done something to undermine not just his own authority, but the
authority of government as such.
My advice to President Bush would be to look at the ways in which the power of the state might be needed in order to support
the autonomous associations and 'little platoons of American civil society. There are two evils in particular which need to be
addressed: the litigation explosion, which has vastly increased the risk of small businesses, and also sown discord among
neighbours; and the disaster of the inner cities, which have suffered from the worst effects of American zoning laws and
laissez-faire aesthetics, with the result that the middle class has fled from the city centres, causing social decay at the heart, and
an unsustainable growth in transportation and suburban infrastructure all around. I believe that federal policies could be
initiated that would address both these evils, without increasing the role of the state in the conduct of litigation or in the
planning of city streets.
MG: Thanks very much for making time for this interview, Dr. Scruton. Any parting thoughts for our readers?
Scruton: I think conservatives should study the ideas and arguments that prevail on the left. There is always something to
learn from these arguments, if only which way the wind of resentment is now blowing. And lifting your eyes from this joyless
stuff, you will thank God that you are a conservative.
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