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OPIOIDS AND AMPHETAMINES INFORMATION FROM BLUELIGHT

Thread: Uppers and downers (opiates + amphetamines): good and bad

I've heard so many opinions and quasi-facts on this subject that I just
wanted to get some legitimate information. The search engine didn't help -- more
of the above.
If some people could post here that could include their source, or descr
ibe the reasoning behind their claim, I would appreciate it.
The question: How do opioids and amphetamines interact? Specifically, ad
derall, which is two salts of d-amphetamine and two salts of racemic amphetamine
.
I've heard everything from the threat of heart failure because of confli
cting "messages" from one's brain to the complete lack of a threat, "amphetamine
s and opioids are just as dangerous as amphetamines on their own."
I understand that they work on two different nervous systems (parasympat
hetic and sympathetic), and so they do not "cancel each other out." That fact se
ems to lend credence to a lack of interaction. However, there is this huge stigm
a attached to doing speedballs and everything that I imagined there could be a g
rain of truth underneath all the bullshit.
Specifically, I'm not asking about speedballs. I'm asking about using bo
th opioids and amphetamines in a single day. For example, I used an opioid this
morning around 7:30. I then enjoyed some adderall (10-15mg) at around 10:30AM. I
've done this in the past, and it doesn't seem to introduce any undue wear and t
ear.
How about spaced closer together? Like, the amphetamines 1-1.5 hours aft
er the opioid? Or alternating, e.g. opioid, 1-1.5 hours, amphetamines, 2-3 hours
, opioids, 1-1.5 hours, amphetamines, etc. It doesn't seem like the best idea to
me, but I want to understand why.
Any information is appreciated.

this past Saturday I enjoyed washing down 20mg of adderall along with 35
mg of Hydrocodone with a few vodka tonics. One of the best buzzes I've ever had
. I wouldn't do it again though, mainly because of the thought of my poor liver
processing all of that shit. There have been a few times where I've taken 20mg o
f ritalin at work, and have had 20-35 mg of hydro a few hours later when I've ca
me home. Amphetamines alone give me a nasty headache after the onset, so that's
the main reason why I usually chase them with some sort of opioid. After reading
what you've taken, I think you'll be okay. I'm sorry I can't give you any more
information, scientifically, to help you explain why though =\
I'm sure there will be quite a few posters that will however, but like I
said, I've done it quite a bit, and have felt fine (no irreg heart beats, hyper
tension headaches, irreg breathing, etc...). Good luck =)

In the days i wasn`t too bad addicted ([ot]they seem to come back 3 week

s clean now) i used a good dose of methadone and amphetamine to go out to a big
carnival party...Usually the methadon was too sedating and the amphetamine makes
me too speedy. But both euphorias just added to each other, i was calm, extreme
ly focused, talkative and on top of the world. I felt way superior to all the dr
unkheads i met. The comedown was non existent because the duration of methadone
well overrides that of speed. I would love to try meth + methadone, too bad its
so rare in germany...

Good stimulants and opiates are the best drug combos ever, like meth and
heroin, heaven, as long as you have enough dope to last through the meth.
I know many people say mixing uppers and downers is lethal even, but act
ually most times they cancel out eachothers dangerous/annoying effects.
The only danger is if you don't know your tolerance to both drugs and en
d up taking too much of the opiate because the speed makes you feel "fine" and a
wake. It can go the other way too, so know your stuff, your tolerance and enjoy
the most failsafe euphoric combo ever.
back in the day one of my favorite combos was 20mg adderal and 40mg hydr
o, and a good 2mg colonzapam. great high, takes away the anxiety from the speed,
and the sedation from the opiates+benzos, The high meets somewere right in the
middle.

Wow, I didn't realize this was such a popular combo to take at the same
time. Thanks for all the replies. I will try to space things out so things don't
get too crazy, but I should be set.
I wouldn't be taking the opioids if it weren't for necessity. :P

The reason you're getting headaches from the adderall is you're dehydrat
ed. Drink only water and don't drink carbonated bevs like coke or seven up and y
our headache will dissipate. also, i find aleve to almost stmulate my amphetamin
e high sometimes. strange, but it does. it's weird. naproxen sodium that is.

oh and it cancels out any headaches too.

Stimulants potentiate benzos, some Codeine 300 + 60mg Ritalin adds to it

Originally posted by davids


Stimulants potentiate benzos, some Codeine 300 + 60mg Ritalin adds to it
Hmm.

First of all, your example doesn't apply to your statement; Codeine is n


ot a benzo, it's an opioid.
Second of all, there is no potentiation occurring for opioids and amphet
amine-derived stimulants when taken together. They affect completely different n
ervous systems within the brain and body (parasympathetic vs. sympathetic), and
therefore have very little effect on one another.
While it may subjectively feel as though one is cancelling the other out
, it is not actually happening that way physiologically. Physiologically, you ar
e feeling the effects of both at the same time.
What my original question was asking was more about potential interactio
ns, if they existed, their danger zones with respect to substances, dosages, and
frequencies, symptoms, risks, etc. for opioids and amphetamine-derived stimulan
ts.
The sheer number of people who appear to have enjoyed the combination wi
th no ill effects is reassuring to me, but I'd still like to read a detailed phy
siological description of what is happening in the CNS and why it is or is not d
angerous in which circumstances. I know how opioids work in the brain, agonizing
the opioid receptors (mu, delta, kappa) and also acting in unknown ways on sera
tonin, dopamine, and noradrenaline/norepinephrine. I know much less about how am
phetamines work in the brain, and the detailed results of mixing the two.
Failing that, simply quoting a source as to its opinion regarding a pote
ntial dangerous interaction would also be helpful.
For example, Heroin Helper says that the only risk associated with speed
balls is the same risk associated with doing the same dose of stimulant on its o
wn. Others differ. *shrug*
Obviously for a middle aged person with some heart disease risks, it's n
ot a great idea to eat many stimulants regardless of how they are accompanied. B
ut I'm not middle-aged yet.
Anyway, thanks for all the responses.

Hmm.
First of all, your example doesn't apply to your statement; Codeine is n
ot a benzo, it's an opioid.
Second of all, there is no potentiation occurring for opioids and amphet
amine-derived stimulants when taken together. They affect completely different n
ervous systems within the brain and body (parasympathetic vs. sympathetic), and
therefore have very little effect on one another.

My scheer apolagies, i was drunk,


Codeine is of course a Opiate, and it has been shown that stimulants CAN
and do INDEED potentiate some OIpie's-hense the 'Bromptons Coctail, Cocaine+amp
hetamine+Brandy given to dying patients in the UK) to see them out.

"stimulants potentiate the anagelsic and antidepressant aspects of Opiat


es/iods."

"Bromptons Coctail"=Heroin+Cocaine+Brandy.

Originally posted by diacetyldeath


I've heard everything from the threat of heart failure because of confli
cting "messages" from one's brain to the complete lack of a threat, "amphetamine
s and opioids are just as dangerous as amphetamines on their own."
Folklore. I don't have the site, but one of the "major" harm reduction/s
afe shooting sites had a paper on amphetamine/opiate combination. There is no me
dical evidence for the "conflicting signals" bullshit- that's what it is- bullsh
it. The only real danger from amp/opiate mixing is that generally, one tends to
shoot more dope while also using amps. In the case of a speedball (coke specific
ally), the coke wears off much quicker than the h. While the coke is active, you
r respiratory depression is not as pronounced. Once the coke wears off, you can
end up in an o/d situation very quickly. It's happened to me. I was shooting a l
ot of speedballs- I hate coke but love the rush, so I'd end up shooting a lot mo
re dope than usual to counter-act the longer coke effects. Once I ran out of cok
e, I'd end up way nodded from the h I shot.
cheers
doc

The Speedracer must be intimately aware of each substances effects, inde


pendent of the other; before engaging in the ritualistic-sport called sPeedBall.
There are many forms of speedball. In a group setting, the best form of
speedball may be an all nite ralley of cocaine and black on tin foil rigs.
If you going out for a night on the town maybe a few meth bumbs and some
pain pills.
My personal favorite is popping two 20 mg adderalls, waiting about five
hours, then swallowing vicodin with crushed up OC bumps. Oh god i almost get a b
oner thinking about it.

yeah like groveller said, you got to be careful when shooting coke and o
piates. that is kinda ironic I also hate coke but i fancy the rush!

I took 1.5 mgs of Klonopins, 4mgs of Seboxin, and a half of a speedy nak
ed lady roll.....everythings fine so far. I took them about 45 minutes apart. Im
not gonna drink though....that where things turn sour..lol DEF. A LITTLE GREEN
THOUGH!!

Quote Originally Posted by Weagle


I took 1.5 mgs of Klonopins, 4mgs of Seboxin, and a half of a speedy nak

ed lady roll.....everythings fine so far. I took them about 45 minutes apart. Im


not gonna drink though....that where things turn sour..lol DEF. A LITTLE GREEN
THOUGH!!
Kpins and suboxone love eachother.
I lovvvvvvvvvvvve an adderall - suboxone combo.
.5-1mg suboxone(intranasal), wait an hour, 30mg adderall(intranasal)+ 60
-70mgs orally. Ohhhhh lawdy

MANY doctors prescribe people on high doses of opiates or other sedative


s an amphetamine to go with it. this is actualy vary commen practice, with both
opiates, and benzos. i know a shit ton of people on dexidrine/xanax, or methadon
e/kpin etc.
its considred vary safe. mainly the harmfulnuss of a speeball comes from
a true speedball (shooting coke and heroin together) that causes Quite the stra
in on the heart.
i used to speedball nearl dailey (not true speedballing i just mean ups
and downs like you mentioned)

benzodiazepines don't have synergistic effects with amphetamines. they'r


e often perceived as very uncomfortable when taken together. opiates and ampheta
mines do. it's not something you want to do regularly. it's not something you sh
ould ever do, but if you're going to do it, start way below your regular dose of
either and don't think that the effects will proportionately mimic an increase
in dose. it's a lot like alcohol mixed with opiates in that you don't know what
you're going to get with an increased dose. you may hit a threshold and spike da
ngerously.

Quote Originally Posted by Subreflex View Post


Kpins and suboxone love eachother.
I lovvvvvvvvvvvve an adderall - suboxone combo.
.5-1mg suboxone(intranasal), wait an hour, 30mg adderall(intranasal)+ 60
-70mgs orally. Ohhhhh lawdy
I'm trying a vyvanse (basically dexedrine) suboxone combo right now. I'v
e been up the entire night on vyvanse taking little doses of it every now and th
en, like 20mg every three hours, after I knew I wasn't going to go to sleep. It'
s 12:35 PM, approximately 16 hours since I started the vyvanse with a total of a
bout 160mg total (I just took my last 20mg) and I did 2mg of suboxone. I did the
insufflated route. Note that I'm sorta used to suboxone. I was doing 8mg a day
a few weeks ago, stopped, and then did some recently a few days in a row. When I
did the buprenorphine my face got pretty warm, as did my hands. I'm not sure, b
ut I think it is counteracting the vasoconstriction that amphetamines cause sinc
e my hands are warming up, but I may be wrong. Amphetamines always make my hands
cold because of the fucking vasoconstriction. It seems to be smoothing out the
edge from what I can tell now though. I still feel pretty amped out, but I don't
feel the anxiety striking me like it did. I would have moments that were remini
scent to a bad trip every hour, especially in social situations. Be careful with

those amphetamines people.


If u r really interested in the exact interaction maybe pick up a medica
l book on the exact physiological effects of amphetamine and opioids. They proba
bly wouldn't be written about at the same time but u can make the connections. T
hen u can come back and teach us all about it. I sure don't have enough knowledg
e to tell what happens on a physiological level when amphetamine is taken with o
piates.
Djsim, moderator in other drugs, is a pharmacist who is currently studyi
ng to be a doctor in Australia. He has lots and lots of knowledge crammed into h
is brain. maybe u can PM him to contribute to the thread. Just a suggestion. He
would be my best option on the most accurate and unbiased information.
Hope that helps.

I got hooked on smack after restarting an Amphetamine habit. Being crank


ed makes the transition to being opiated much more drastic (and pleasurable). So
rt of like the best shots of dope are when you're shitting your pants sick. The
change is so massive it makes the good better. My ex used to shoot meth + dope a
ll the time.
Interesting note: one story goes that the origin of Amphetamines + Heroi
n/Morphine injected together originated with army personnel on leave in Yokohama
, Japan during the Korean War. Burroughs wrote a good deal about the ex-army guy
s at Lexington Narcotics Hospital talking about shooting speedballs in Yokohama.
I'm willing to believe it.
There have been a lot of threads about the specific dangers of speedball
s, but you're right that a lot of that information is irrelevant because of Coca
ine's specific characteristics which seem to be the main danger, followed by the
chance that an opioid naive person would take too much dope not realizing how i
t is effecting them fully due to the stimulation, resulting in respiratory depre
ssion when the stimulant wears off.
Theres a long history of combining opioids and powerful stimulants medic
ally. Brompton's Cocktail and Pipradol come to mind. A whole lot of MMT and BMT
patients on BL routinely talk about their prescriptions to Adderall/Dexedrine/Ri
talin/Concerta/etc.
You may have better luck in ADD. While they may post sources and quote v
arious journal articles, my guess is that the conclusion will be the same- there
are risks, but they are not as grave as combining Cocaine with opioids, and don
e semi-responsibly there is little cause for concern, especially with spaced adm
inistration and low(er) doses.
Cocaine is a weird drug in that it's a triple reuptake inhibitor and tar
gets the mesolimbic reward pathway. Interestingly, MDMA is a serotonin-norepinep
hrine-dopamine releaser, which is intrinsically a triple reuptake inhibitor as w
ell. Almost all of the opiates and opioids target the reward pathway as well via
opiate-peptide receptors which indirectly affect a number of other neurotransmi
tters such as serotonin and dopamine. Amphetamines have serotonin and norepineph
rine releasing properties, so there really isn't too much of a direct interactio
n with opiates and ampetamines in the CNS, but some of the physiological effects
can be exacerbated by the combination. Euphoria is most definitely potentiated
but some of the qualities that give magic to the amps and opes singularly is los

t IMO and is counterproductive for my tastes.

How does ephedrine mix with morphine? Or any other opiate? Been wanting
to mix ephedrine and morphine. I would use a real amphetamine if i had some. Eph
edrine is all i have. "so sad"
i like taking my opiates alone, for some reason when i mixed em with add
erall everything felt canceled out, I wasn't able to fully appreciate the opiate
, or even the adderall in its entirity.
I went through a period where I hated stimulants, and I was all about do
wners. However, when I got on MMT i was introduced to I.V coke, and that really
changed my oppinion. methadone and coke are great, and methadone and amphetamine
s are even better. I find it really works well together, because your not too se
dated and your not too speedy. I'm the type of person that likes to get shit don
e while I'm high, so being over sedated is depressing to me.

Quote Originally Posted by Znegative View Post


I went through a period where I hated stimulants, and I was all about do
wners. However, when I got on MMT i was introduced to I.V coke, and that really
changed my oppinion. methadone and coke are great, and methadone and amphetamine
s are even better. I find it really works well together, because your not too se
dated and your not too speedy. I'm the type of person that likes to get shit don
e while I'm high, so being over sedated is depressing to me.
... Me and a good friend ..well lets call him Swim.! I used to shoot dop
e with my good friend Swim and one day Swim had Hydromorphone"Dilaudid" & some S
trong Coke to for us to boot. I had never shot coke before let alone mixed with
and opiate and WOW..!! Best High Ever.! ..so i feel ya on that ..would do it aga
in if i had access. ..Thanks for the reply ..Rx

Quote Originally Posted by downerman10 View Post


i like taking my opiates alone, for some reason when i mixed em with add
erall everything felt canceled out, I wasn't able to fully appreciate the opiate
, or even the adderall in its entirity.
..I was worried about them canceling each other out. About a year ago i
ate adderall all day ..then later that night i ate about 200mg morphine and did
not feel the morphine at all. I did feel the body fx bout no high.! I thought i
prob used up all my dopamine from the adderall. Thanks for the reply ...Rx

I am prescribed 10mg of adderall 4 times per day. Last fall I contracted


oral HSV. i was one of the unfortunate 10% of the population that didn't get ex
posed to it as a child and it was horrid. My dr said it was the worst case he ha
d ever seen. He prescribed me 7.5mgs of Hydrocodone "as needed but not to exceed
6 per day. When he handed me the script i looked at him very confused and state
d "but i can't take this and adderall together can i?" He explained to me there
is no danger taking the two together at prescribed doses because both have a sim
ilar duration. I like many others were afraid of mixing uppers and downers but h

e further explained the reason why "speedballs" are dangerous:


The reason people die from
caine and the much longer duration
into a hyper-stimulated state then
strong. The result is your body is
depressed state and in worse case
ory failure and death.

speedballs is due to the short duration of co


of heroin. Simply put. Coke shoots your body
it wears off while the heroin is still going
violently pulled from a stimulated state to a
scenarios goes into shock leading to respirat

As with many drugs and drug combinations the danger is directly related
to the dosage. If you can safely handle X amount of adderall and X amount of opi
ate separately then you should be safe taking them together ORALLY. IF and ONLY
IF the dosages are within FDA APPROVED RANGES. Otherwise i say stay away!!!
Again key points: SAFE DOSAGE and SIMILAR DURATION!!! This goes for othe
r stimulants and depressants as well. Know you your body, be smart, and always p
lay it safe. Pushing the envelope leads to pushing up daisies.

Quote Originally Posted by Rx_ View Post


How does ephedrine mix with morphine? Or any other opiate? Been wanting
to mix ephedrine and morphine. I would use a real amphetamine if i had some. Eph
edrine is all i have. "so sad"
Not a bad mix IMO. Ephedrine doesn't really create any stimulant-esque e
uphoria, but it does pack some pep, and can definitely give a mood lift/motivati
on boost on its own. With Morphine, which is one of the drowsiest Opiates, havin
g something like Ephedra or even Pseudoephedrine can help counteract that drowsi
ness and keep you more alert. Unless you want to nod out of course, then you pro
bably want to just skip the Ephedra.
Morphine + Amphetamine? One of my favorite combinations ever
i used to date a girl that woke up every morning and blasted lines of ad
derall and oxy mixed together, and i've taken opiates while on rit or adderall m
any times in the past. it never seemed to harm her or me any more than taking dr
ugs normally would. this is not medical advice or anything, but from what i've w
itnessed/eperienced, there were no severly adverse consequences.
like someone else said, i think the danger of speedballs is when the sti
mulant wears off, you may have taken too much of the opiate and that's when peop
le die or whatever. again, i'm no doctor though, so i'm just sharing my experien
ce and personal understanding of this subject. please don't read this as me tell
ing anyone it's definitely safe bc i don't know.

Well I gotta add my .02 cents on this thread. I don't have a scientific
or physiological answer for anyone but I do know that before I got off the needl
e (started with oxy moved to heroin) I one night had an opportunity to "speedbal
l" with some ice......
Ima tell you I was in love with my heroin alone and didn't think anythin
g would be better but you throw that ice in the mix and I seriously had an orgas
m with that first shot....
It was like adding that third person into a two way of great drugged up

wanting more can't get enough sex.....sheeesh it was amazing.


Luckily I am pretty far down the road of being away from that stuff or j
ust this thought and a few phone calls and I would have been gunning for it.
Sorry, just had to comment about that....
kricket~

People freak out on these boards about the use of stimulants and opiates
or what have you. But the statistics really aren't there. You're talking about
a little bit of adderall and a little bit of some opiate. It would be unrealisti
c for you to worry about heart failure (haha), or some other retarded bullshit.
Like the odds of you're child getting abducted because you let them play in your
backyard unsupervised don't make sense when you see the amount of fear some peo
ple have for shit like that.
Ask this question when you're injecting a gram of meth with a gram of he
roin, and I think a lot of the fear that people discuss in these posts may be a
little more likely. I personally have to have either an opiate or a benzo, like
many people do, whenever I do amphetamines of any kind. Otherwise I enter near-s
uicidal depression every time.

can someone please tell me how to shoot 20mg adderall and break it down
for me in simple terms, no chemistry bullshit plz.

Quote Originally Posted by Iloveballz View Post


can someone please tell me how to shoot 20mg adderall and break it down
for me in simple terms, no chemistry bullshit plz.
Despite this being a terrible idea, I'm sure there are more than a few p
eople who can help you, but this thread is not the appropriate place to ask.
Try searching around, and if you still can't find the info you're lookin
g for, you can always start your own thread, though I'll warn you that it would
be a more or less self-serving thread and will likely get closed. Honestly, just
take it orally or sniff it.

One of my favorite combo's used to be 30mg+ Adderall IR, and at the peak
I would start railing mass amounts of Oxymorphone. Ohhhh, sweet euphoria. Too b
ad my heart can't take that non-sense anymore..

ive been doin meth and oxy for the past week.. i wait a couple hours to
take the oxy because if i take it to early, the meth overpowers it. I love the c
ombination especially with some xanax and a few brews. i would say defiantly dos
e both if ur using adderall it shouldn't over power the opiates too much.

Im about to attempt 1mg suboxone and 130mg of 4-FA, both nasally.


Lets hope all goes well

One time i took 15mg hydrocodone with 30mg adderal. I felt veerrrry good
. I would recommend, although i dont know too much about the health risks. I had
a stomach ache on the comedown btw, not sure if its related.

I strongly dislike the amphetamine/opiate combination, I used to take ma


ybe 30 mg of Dexedrine and 30 mg of oxycodone or 60 mg of morphine, the opiate t
akes away a lot of the "edge" (anxiety) from the speed but other than that, they
took away the nod (opiate) and the ability to go for hours and hours without ti
ring (speed), which is why I did that combo only twice or 3 times. I like to use
opiates to come down off Dexedrine, a few hours after the high from the speed w
ears off I'll pop a morphine and sleep. Sometimes if I can't sleep even with the
morphine I'll take a melatonin, and that works even better.
Last edited by datSTIMfreak; 10-11-2010 at 15:33.

In my own experiences, the only opiate + upper combination I enjoyed was


a genuine speedball. I have recently tried combinations of hydrocodone + Addera
ll, and morphine + Vyvanse. While the initial buzz is fun, it tended to make me
extremely nauseous, and I would get headaches, especially from the morph + lisde
x. Speed can give headaches as it is from the vasodilation, and natural opiates
like codeine and morphine always tend to give me headaches when taken in excess.
IME, the side effects from both drugs tended to get a little overwhelming and I
would feel "yucky" within a few hours.
If you are not interested in trying a true heroin + cocaine speedball, t
ry something like oxycodone + Dexedrine. Semi-synthetic and synthetic opiates ha
ve a better side-effect profile.
However, using opiates when crashing from speed is always great. It kill
s the anxiety, kills the pain from muscle tension, etc. So my verdict is this: u
sing them together can cancel the effects of each drug out, and the side-effects
can be undesirable. If you want to experiment then go ahead; but my recommendat
ion is to use the drugs subsequently, not simultaneously.

I don't care who believes me or not but I've been up for seven days stra
ight on rx amphetamine salts. I was feeling like absolute hell most of last nigh
t because the 30mg adds weren't really giving me effects but they kept me awake.
I would feel horrible and then take one and just feel normal ish
Well i really didn't plan on staying awake for a week but one thing led
to another and it happened, but I'll save the horrid details for another thread.
So anyways i had maybe five subutex through outthe week and every time it truly
felt amazing. My eyes would flutter, and euphoria rushed through my body. It wa
s mostly doing iv shots of 15mg amphetamine mixed with 2mg buprenorphine while a
lready tweaking. You would expect a huge rush but both amps and hope have a dela
yed rush when ivd. But delayed or not it really worked well. I think it might ha
ve had such a pronounced synergy because i do believe but has some effect on the
dopamine system,b more so than most opiates at least. Journalism's pleasure ste
ms largely from dopamine, a well known fact

It is actually neurotoxic because it is a weak base and after the brain


uses it, dop oxidizes.
Back on topic, when the sun game up this morning i was actually thinking
death would be between, i never felt worse in my life
Withdrawing from bup and feeling tired ashell, yet couldn't sleep becaus
e of the adds that stopped gettingme high. Why did i continue taking them? Well
i was dreading the comedown I'm headed for, that's how it got this far. If you d
on't know what it's like being up for a week on amphetamine, i would say that da
y 5 and would consist of a state of psychosis mixed with an overall feeling of d
epression and poor health. Its kind of like my brain was focused on my droid cel
l phone while my bodyfed amphetamine to my mouth like a conditioned monkey when
i would start to crash . Well this morning was the worst i ever felt in my life
and I've went through some pretty horrible withdrawals. This is because i attemp
ted to stop taking it so i could maybe get some sleep. Well i started coming dow
n so hard that i couldn't deal and popped 60 more mg of speed in a defeated stat
e. It gave me a small high but the bup withdrawal started to be a little much so
i rummaged through my room hoping to find some cottons to rinse from my shots e
arlier in t week. Then there it was, a chunk of bup about 2mg in size. It i was
too jittery to shoot it. Do i threw it under my tongue, laid back down on my bed
and started reading the wiki article on my android while i waited for the sub t
o take away the. Sickness. Well about an hour later i became so overwhelmed with
euphoria that i couldn't fuckin believe it
Maybe it was an extra special high because i was so depressed over the w
hole situation of tweaking for a week. Lingered m mixed with being dope sick, th
at a rushing high like thatwas welcomed with b open arms. But as i was writing t
his it started wearing off
Now the intense high is l long gone and I'm crashing hard
I don't know what I'm going to do
I am struggling to not pass out of drop dead because my girlfriend is br
inging me ten subs at 3 and it's 9 am. I know if i fall asleep there is no way i
will be able to e wake up for the subutex. I'm in bad shape guys
The cell phone touch screen that i am using appears warped in amanor tha
t is making the writing very awkward.. i am having delusions. I actually thought
my dad was in here talking to me. I have severe depression, anxiety, and stayin
g awake is starting to get extremely painful
. AlsoI'm nauseated when iv look at this v cell phone and realize I've b
een open it for a breaking week with no sleep. It is becoming almost impossible
to typeon this tough screen. This is way too long, i only intended on tellingabo
ut. My glowing experience now I'm pretty much crying v for help. What should i d
o to stop feeling like i need to stay awake for the bulge that's coming later al
so i don't want to fall asleep, malnurished and dehydrated
Ok writing this is almost impossible now. Please give advice. I I'm goin
g to take another
30the to keep me up until at least some one replied. I'm sorry this was
so long but I'm spunthe help out. Definitely in. Amphetamine psychosis. Please r
eply or even email me with help our advice
. Thankx evilme@angelic.com
.

Do you have any benzos like xanax or valium even?


you're heading for a deep dark place and it appears your anxiety is maki
ng things worse. I can't tell you how safe it would be to take benzos on top of
the opoids you're already on but I know if taken within reasonable doses it will
help you calm down.
Don't take more amphetamines. That's for sure, hopefully someone more cl
ued up than me can make a better or safer assessment/remedy. But you need to dri
nk plenty of water, stop the amphetamines and prevent further panic which is mak

ing your situation worse...


But please, no more amphetamine.
Amphetamine + panic = horrendous frame of mind which will make you od.
Call your girlfriend and see if she can bring you some xanax or similar,
and sooner rather than later.
Good luck buddy, I'll email you this same reply but i sincerely hopea bi
gger expert han me will come along with more helpful ideas.
adderall is gonna cancel out some of the opiate euphoria due to your ove
rstimulation of the PNS. dexedrine is great with heroin/opiates because its only
a CNS stimulant rather than a PNS stimulant, therefore, you get MUCH less annoy
ing "tweaked out" feeling and just pure, intense euphoria. Meth is also GREAT wi
th heroin, but unsafe, and i strongly recommend against it.
Also with this "opiate one hour after the amphetamine, or the other way
around" stuff, I'll narrow it down for you: you have two options, simultaneously
or taking the opiate on the amphetamine comedown. No other way will be satisfac
tory.

Personally I've always taken the stim say IV and along side it a low dos
e of h, then near the end its like I am hammering my plungers direct into my opo
id receiptor.

Okay well let me start with im in my upper 20s and opiates literally des
troyed my life for years. Suboxone is a miracle drug and even though i surely cr
ave a bumped oc80 with 2 xany bars, im 4 years clean.
I also am bipolar and antidepressants and mood stabilzers make it all wo
rse, much worse. Now adderall is great... at first. then it drops me like crack
and makes me very paranoid.
Recently I've been on 50mg vyvanse in the am when I take my 12mg of sub
after and it is truly something. Energy, focus, elevated mood so good. I am also
on 3mg xanax per day which I usually save for the evening but when I throw them a
ll in the morning, I am truly a happy, sharp person.
Medical Marijuana is not legal in my state, but I have tried many differ
ent strains. In the near future I know a couple puffs from a vape pen and daily
excerise and emoyment all seems too good to be true

i noticed when i would take addys and binge all night on them, and stay
awake all the way till morning, i would go to the methadone clinic me and my gir
l and get our dose, and EVERYTIME , it seems the methadone brings back the adder
all euphoria...even when i was on suboxone i got the same effect...its a waste t
aking benzos to kill a speed crash, ur hypertensive, so ur gonna need 3x ur regu
lar benzo amount, more likely u wont sleep, just be tweaked withoput feeling wac
ked out, same with opiates, u willl feel good but when the benzos and opiates we
ar off ur ack to feeling like shit. just drink water eat food take vitamins, hav
e sex or masturbate

Quote Originally Posted by PhorIndicator View Post


The reason you're getting headaches from the adderall is you're dehydrat
ed. Drink only water and don't drink carbonated bevs like coke or seven up and y
our headache will dissipate. also, i find aleve to almost stmulate my amphetamin
e high sometimes. strange, but it does. it's weird. naproxen sodium that is.
This is actually not quite true and I know this from personal experience
, I had taken adderall and antytime you take an amphetamine your blood pressure
goes up, in which a side effect of high blood pressure is a headache, in my case
was an excruciating headache, one like I had never felt before, a different kin
d of headache where i could feel my heart beat in my head, my bf has high blood
pressure so he has a machine in which he can test blood pressure, my blood press
ure was stroke level high, I immediately took a couple of his blood pressure med
s and some aspirin. Mind you, I always have normal blood pressure, I just had a
gut feeling my blood pressure had spiked cuz this was a weird headache like I ha
d never felt and knew stimulants spike blood pressure. I had never taken adderal
l alone before and had always taken with pain pills, which do opposite, lower bl
ood pressure. But it is true adderall does enhance opiate buzz but please taken
with caution, starting with small amounts, BC I'm telling u that was a very scar
y experience for me, and I almost had to break down and go to er and told them w
hat I had taken if my blood pressure didn't drop very soon, and we were ten mins
from taking me but the blood pressure pills finally brought it down to safe lev
els

Are you from Indiana by chance ?

http://www.practicalpainmanagement.c...ulants-opioids
[QUOTE=Ell;7247964]benzodiazepines don't have synergistic effects with a
mphetamines. they're often perceived as very uncomfortable when taken together.
opiates and amphetamines do. it's not something you want to do regularly. it's n
ot something you should
What is a good effect if you have methadon 5 mg ,how much can u take wit
h ms contin 10 mg ??/

Quote Originally Posted by Znegative View Post


I went through a period where I hated stimulants, and I was all about do
wners. However, when I got on MMT i was introduced to I.V coke, and that really
changed my oppinion. methadone and coke are great, and methadone and amphetamine
s are even better. I find it really works well together, because your not too se
dated and your not too speedy. I'm the type of person that likes to get shit don
e while I'm high, so being over sedated is depressing to me.
I'm on mmt and I just got my adderall filled and like always I'm having
a bad comedown. I don't notice the synergy with the methadone. Maybe if I take a
pill before my mmt dose it will feel better.
Anyways I wanted to say that if you can get your hands on lyrica, it is
a miracle drug for coming down off stims. I one was binging on adds and awake fo
r a little over a week.. I was feeling terrible and starting pretty obvious amph
etamine psychosis. I noticed I was getting low on my script of Klonopin and it w
asn't helping anyways so to avoid benzo withdrawal from running out of clonazepa
m early I desperately started searching for an alternative. I tried my baclofen

and it didn't help. Booze didn't help. Bags didn't help. Next I looked at my scr
ipt of lyrica. I swallowed down 5 300mg capsules and about 2 hours later not onl
y did I feel better but it took me completely back to normal. It didn't just hel
p but I felt like I never took an upper before. Seriously that stuff is magic. I
don't know if you consider it a downer but it works many times better than benz
os. Good luck!

when I was first becoming addicted to heroin I shot up meth in the morni
ng to get all ready to go and motivated for the day, then when my people and I w
ere done hitting the day's licks and had the money divvied up for what we really
wanted, we'd cop and shoot H in the afternoon and evening. until I started to t
hink "why the hell am I wasting my money on this shitty meth when I could be was
ting it on a little bit more heroin???" doing that never really seemed to have a
ny ill effect on me. well except that I ended up a full-time junkie in short ord
er.
What effect would result when taking a low dose of adderall during an op
iate high, or at the same time as the opiate. Does one overpower the other (say
if the adderall dose is low compared to the opiate dose). I would guess that the
amphetamine may negate the opiate high, but maybe it makes it more euphoric. An
yone with experience on this please describe the synergy.

Back when I used a bit too much amphetamine and went into amphetamine py
chosis, (esp. when I dosed) I would dose around 150mg of vyvanse then about 4-6
hours then to chill me out since there wasnt much euphoria I was chasing somethi
ng I thought I could still catch. later I would snort 1-4 bags of heroin to chil
l out the pyhcosis. For me it didnt make the high more euphoric but I was a bit
more amp'd up than the usual dope high. The heroin wore off quickly though cause
the amphetamine either overpowered it or it got out of my system quicker.
HOWEVER now that I think of it after my 8 month break from amphetamines
they became euphoric again. I was on about 150mg of vyvanse and I made my way to
the spot to get some xanax. They didnt have any left when I got there so I boug
ht two 30mg roxis. I didnt have a needle so I snorted them, and normally 60mg of
oxy isnt enough to get me high, just feelin nice. The oxycodone mixed with the
d-amp in a good way, I became more uppity, talkitive, and euphoric. How eve the
oxycodone buzz was gone within an hour and during the comedown I was stuck wishi
ng I had saved the oxycodone. I don't know how safe this is but it deff made for
a better high.

I have a script for dexedrine and oxy 30s (roxi) and take them together
all the time. It makes me feel how normal people, who don;t have to take opiate
for pain control, feel. If I choose to get high from the euphoric properties of
the oxy. though, it takes more. But for pain relief, the amphetamine potentieate
s the pain-relieving properties of the opiate. Also, without the amphetamine, th
e tendency to fall asleep from the oxy is a problem. By far, they work best toge
ther.

Dexedrine and Hydrocodone helps me with pain... I am Rx'd both and they

seem to synergies well.

Stronger opiates and amphetamine's feel real nice together. So do benzo'


s and amphetamine's but i dont know if thats a smart thing to do. But it feels g
ood.

im on methadone and when i take dextroamphetamine i usually use ambien a


nd the 175mgs of methadone to come down.... plus it gives me a nice euphoria.

From my experience kratom taken on top of amphetamine sulphate produces


a nice, somewhat erotic feeling.

for me amps completely ruin opiates because its the completely opposite
type of high

I find that Amphetamine synergizes very well with Opioids, especially Mo


rphine, IME.
Opiates + Amphetamines made me sick as hell. Some people like it but I j
ust can't tolerate it.

For me, amphetamines (dex in specific) always overpowers any type of sed
ative that i take before the speed kicks in.. there is only a few occasions wher
e i would say that the polydrug combo of uppers + downers worked in coordination
to make for a better high and that always consists of a 2:1 ratio of uppers to
downers ( i have a amph. tolerance.) specifically, IR benzo's such as alprazolam
or diazepam -or when considering opiates- oxy's, diacetyl, or hyrdomorphone, ar
e the only kind that mixed nicely when taken orally to create a high that intens
ified the euphoria of either drug, exponentially.
Just one mans opinion.
I take prescribed adderall and oxycodone every day. The oxy handles my p
ain for the most part, and never fails to put me in a fantastic mood. The addera
ll I truly fucking need and it transforms me from a good for nothing, procrastin
ating, only do the bare minimum slacker into a driven, fastidious perfectionist.
And after about 8 years, I have kept my daily intake to about 40mgs of adderall
.
My job subjects me to daily interaction with unbelievably annoying, rude
, stupid, piece of shit liar disabled people and plenty of incompetent administr
ators. I work long hours, receive little thanks, and don't get paid for overtime
. And I fucking love it. I have a smile on my face every day, and work my ass of
f and do a kick ass job. This particular combination of drugs keeps me happy, mo

tivated, energetic and sharp during the day, and warm and fuzzy and drousy at ni
ght. Truly a great combination of drugs, and for better or worse they are a dail
y fixture in my life.

I have some 30 mgs xr morphine and 15 mg xr dexedrine and pretty much no


tolerance to either i can anyone describe a good dosage for either of these to
get a good high without one overpowering the other and good synergy. (Also what
route of administration do u advise because I know everyone says dont rail morph
ine but personally railing morphine gets me extremely high and anything that is
not absorbed by the sines then makes its way to the stomach regardless)

When ive been on "street"amphetamine and wanna come to a peace i IV eith


er Heroin(the best ofc or Suboxone.
Its a fine feeling when the opiate takes a bit of control of the wonderf
ull amphetamine buzz.
I recomend this but don't go and do speedball-lights now, like 50% Oxy a
nd 50% Amphetamine in one big shot.

Quote Originally Posted by canucka View Post


For me, amphetamines (dex in specific) always overpowers any type of sed
ative that i take before the speed kicks in.. there is only a few occasions wher
e i would say that the polydrug combo of uppers + downers worked in coordination
to make for a better high and that always consists of a 2:1 ratio of uppers to
downers ( i have a amph. tolerance.) specifically, IR benzo's such as alprazolam
or diazepam -or when considering opiates- oxy's, diacetyl, or hyrdomorphone, ar
e the only kind that mixed nicely when taken orally to create a high that intens
ified the euphoria of either drug, exponentially.
Just one mans opinion.
This is exactly what I came here to say! No matter how much of and opioi
d I will take it seems to not have a any type of sedative qualities when I am co
mbining my d-amphetamine and my methadone at least. I have tripled my dose for t
he day and still have been mildly stimulated 12h+ after taking my dexedrine. The
only thing I have experienced to be helpful in killing an amphetamine high full
-stop is a benzodiazapene such as diazepam or lorazepam. Unfortunately my psychi
atrist believes I can stay sane with 60mg of d-amphetamine a day without somethi
ng to bring me back down at the end. This has led to many multi-night speed-fuel
ed all nighters which can have you a little frazzled along the edges after a whi
le.
Anyone know of something not scheduled or prescription that I could use
for sleep or to mediate the crash at the end of the day using amphetamines? I ha
ve been meaning to get some phenazepam but I have yet to find a supplier whom I
can be sure of the legitimacy. I don't know if this breaks the source rule but i
f someone who has first hand knowledge could PM about sources I can get a foot o
ff this crazy-train and get some damn sleep already!

Valerian is about the best thing you can get OTC that will help knock yo
u out. Take 3-4grams of the stuff and it should help you sleep. Not as good as Z

drugs or benzos but in high enough doses it does have a fairly strong tranquill
iser effect.

I realize this is a year or so later but if you're still in search Lyric


a works really well on the GABAb though it is prescription. If you can't get any
thing rx'd Phenibut seems to work very well to know you right out especially in
a product call MRM Relax All (sorry to source but it really is a fantastic combi
nation for coming down). Also Relora works very similiarly the benzodiazepines a
nd is OTC.

i dont think they synergize well at all they just cancel each other out.
..you just get a speedy feelin a little less than just amphetamines by themself
but its wierd i think it was a complet waste because i like the itch and the war
m feeling of opiates which was cancelled out by the speed

IMO save the opiates for the comedown and use benzo's to level you out o
n amps, I find benzo's make meth so much more enjoyable for me, I am mentally cl
earer and physically more comfortable with benzos in my system. Benzos especiall
y xanax add a great euphoric kick to an amphetamine high, if I mix opiates and m
eth(dont know about Dex/Amp) I often get sick and get a headache plus I need mor
e of both drugs which is more money that I dont have to spend on drugs. Mixing o
piates with amps while your actually still amped is a disappointing waste of her
oin in my eyes and id never do it again. Saving opiates and if possible some ben
zos for the comedown puts the opiates to a much better use I think. I had some s
peed last night and today felt like death so shot some H and now I feel nice, it
s a win situation.
I also find that the more mentally or physically uncomfortable you are b
efore you take benzo's or opiates, the better the drugs feel and after a night o
r few on the speed, especially if youve been dancing or just on your feet consta
ntly you are usually in a shitload of pain and extremely uncomfortable so at tha
t point in my adventures there is nothing better than some opiates or benzo's(so
metimes both though not encouraged, this is treading in dangerous territory)
The rush of a nice blast of H just melting away all that is interfering
with your comfort is so, so satisfying and better than being sober/comfortable a
nd having a shot of H. Its kind of the same how when I used frequently or now be
ing on bupe and methadone in the past I like to wait until I am in severe WD's b
efore I use any H because it makes it that much better at the time due to the pr
evious uncomfort. Afterall H is essentially a painkiller, benzos do seem to have
that same quality of being better if your not feeling mentally or sometimes phy
sically(for eg H WD) well though.
Am I alone on all this? Dont mean to stray off topic at all I just figur
e theres something to the goodness that comes from coming down and having ope's.
Last edited by the_ketaman; 01-01-2012 at 02:23.

One more thing, there is a risk of overdosing on the opiate if you happe
n to take a lot and then you start coming down from the speed and vica-versa. Es

pecially with opiates like methadone that have a long half life(not to mention m
ethadone depresses the system moreso than most other opiates do at similar equiv
alent doses) you really need to be careful you dont have too much because when t
he speed wears off your life could be in danger. Lastly, I wouldnt advise combin
ing opiates and amphetamines unless your experienced with both drugs seperately
and dont take more than you would if you were only taking one of the drugs, in f
act I would say take less.
be safe people

I find that if I try to use any opiates, even tramadols, with meth, it k
ills me. I have tried to use opiates a couple times on the comedown and gotten v
iolently ill. That's just my experience. I don't ever combine the two anymore.

I like speedballs, best of both worlds. It seems the downer takes the ed
ge off and the upper counteracts the sedation, but I still get the euphoria of b
oth.
It's not as bad as mixing two downers, but opiates lower the seizure thr
eshold and block the vagus nerve, which can make tachycardia(heart rate over 100
)worse.Don't know if the vagolytic(vagus blocking) effect of opiates is dangerou
s with stims.

I (unfortunately?) have personally used this combo, only used opiates to


comedown. So I'm the same a the_ketaman.
However, as people have said here is more or less what I've heard elsewh
ere.....
- They really have to be one of the stronger opiates otherwise the amphe
t can easily over-power it (as IknowIsuckDude said)
- None/or minimal actual euphoria (that you might usually get from opiat
es)
I personally would rather just save each, dose a completely separate tim
es and enjoy each heigh for that it is!
It annoyed when I used to buy pills and all they are are basically speed
bombs! I bought a PILL ( == MDx!!!! ) not a bloody speedbomb. If i wanted gear I
would have bought it.
Not to mention the constant debate (re speedballs) which comes up about
how bad it is for you body to be mixing stimulants with depressants (ala Brompto
n Cocktail? :P )

It definitely depends on the person. For me they don't go well together


at all but other people claim its a great combo. However, if I take opioids abou
t 12 hours after taking amphetamines, I enter one of the most euphoric and produ
ctive mindsets I've experienced in my life. In fact, its probably the most eupho
ric and productive mindsets I've experienced. I really want to know what the pha

rmacology behind this is.

Quote Originally Posted by CrimpJiggler


^^^ +1. Like any product/service one pays for, if the consumer is not ha
ppy* with said product, they are fully within their right as a consumer to follo
w the company's procedure and resolve it - which best for both parties - if I re
signed....and hence going back to Uni! in qustion(maybe too muchchoice at that p
oint with their right as a consumer to - in the first insistence acustomer (must
, whether you like it or not) must follow store prodecure/will receive the actua
l productnot(generally) guy, offer a gift-card, or service, ....

* Just wanted it aware

Quote Originally Posted by CrimpJiggler View Post


It definitely depends on the person...
Ah, hadn't heard this before! I'm personally not a fan of not funny basi
c ops presentation - generally they do due tohappy at not enough to generalise t
o bandti-sort jobs.
Quote Originally Posted by CrimpJiggler;10216661+1.
I'm looking into moving into pharmacogenetics,
I really want to know what the pharmacology behind this is.
''
The last segment I separated (the above few) look pretty bare! Nar not t
hat at all - "Pharmacogenetics? - have you been stalking me? :P"
Pharmacology as an entire field is outrageously (expansive and yet) anyw
here from "Comic scentific, realatively new, etc. interest too! I definitely wan
na be handling them but way before it gets too old! lol)helps quite a bi I perso
nally find fascinate.
Good plan and good luck!

Quote Originally Posted by El Patron View Post


I take prescribed adderall and oxycodone every day. The oxy handles my p
ain for the most part, and never fails to put me in a fantastic mood. The addera
ll I truly fucking need and it transforms me from a good for nothing, procrastin
ating, only do the bare minimum slacker into a driven, fastidious perfectionist.
And after about 8 years, I have kept my daily intake to about 40mgs of adderall
.
My job subjects me to daily interaction with unbelievably annoying, rude
, stupid, piece of shit liar disabled people and plenty of incompetent administr

ators. I work long hours, receive little thanks, and don't get paid for overtime
. And I fucking love it. I have a smile on my face every day, and work my ass of
f and do a kick ass job. This particular combination of drugs keeps me happy, mo
tivated, energetic and sharp during the day, and warm and fuzzy and drousy at ni
ght. Truly a great combination of drugs, and for better or worse they are a dail
y fixture in my life.
It seems you've found the perfect mix. I love the Amp/Opiate combo mysel
f but I'm not prescribed Adderall and I sniff bags rather than taking Oxys. Some
times I wish I could be on both drugs at the same time FOREVER lol. The two drug
s complement eachother perfectly for me, although I know it effects everyone dif
ferently. Adderall COMPLETELY kills my appetite, but if I sniff a bag with it I
can eat again. I have no problem eating while on H, it actually increases my app
etite quite a bit. Sometimes when I nod on H, I end up falling asleep for like 2
0 min and realize I just missed the best part!! But with adderall it's like I'm
more aware of the euphoria from the H and can enjoy it without falling asleep. O
ne thing I should add is that IME, the combo is best with smaller doses of adder
all (40mg or less). Anything more than that makes it pointless to take any H wit
h it because the Adderall overpowers it greatly... I'm basically too Amphed up t
o feel or care about anything else. Anything over 40mg + H makes me sick to the
point where I'm puking every 30 min... No fun ??. At least I know better now and
have done enough experimenting to know what the perfect combo FOR ME is. I've d
efinitely found the "sweet spot" ??
... But it scares me that I seek this drug combo to combat depression an
d feel normal rather than getting to the root of my depression. I think if I had
the ability or funds to stay on Amps/H 24/7, I would eventually become WAYYYY t
oo dependant on the mixture, to the point where I would be a huge mess without t
hem. Even if I had a reliable daily supply of both, at some point I'm GOING to r
un out, and then I'd realize how much of a shell of a person I am without them.
The depression I have now is NOTHING compared to the kind of HELL I would face w
hile quitting both Amp/H after 8 years of daily use! I'm pretty miserable for a
few days after just a WEEK of using lol. So It would take me a LONG time to feel
anything even close to normal after 8 years. But to each their own. You know yo
urself better than anyone, and as long as you're happy and healthy then you shou
ld take whatever combo works best for you!
Just curious though, have you ever run out of one of the two drugs durin
g the last 8 years? Or both at the same time? If so, what was it like going with
out them, I mean does it make you feel like a zombie?

I used to IV heroin to come down off a shot of meth for a little while b
efore I decided I'd rather spend all my money on heroin, though IMO there's not
really much of a comedown after a single shot of meth, but it was a fun process.
man I wish I'd had some opiates back when I was a teenager doing 500mg+ of vyva
nse on the 6th or later day of being constantly twacked. would have made those a
wful 36hr comedowns I had to just to get to the point that I could sleep for lik
e 16hrs before hitting up the phet again for another week a LOT more bearable. g
od did that suck.

Quote Originally Posted by Benten866 View Post


It seems you've found the perfect mix. I love the Amp/Opiate combo mysel
f but I'm not prescribed Adderall and I sniff bags rather than taking Oxys. Some
times I wish I could be on both drugs at the same time FOREVER lol. The two drug
s complement eachother perfectly for me, although I know it effects everyone dif
ferently. Adderall COMPLETELY kills my appetite, but if I sniff a bag with it I
can eat again. I have no problem eating while on H, it actually increases my app
etite quite a bit. Sometimes when I nod on H, I end up falling asleep for like 2
0 min and realize I just missed the best part!! But with adderall it's like I'm

more aware of the euphoria from the H and can enjoy it without falling asleep. O
ne thing I should add is that IME, the combo is best with smaller doses of adder
all (40mg or less). Anything more than that makes it pointless to take any H wit
h it because the Adderall overpowers it greatly... I'm basically too Amphed up t
o feel or care about anything else. Anything over 40mg + H makes me sick to the
point where I'm puking every 30 min... No fun ??. At least I know better now and
have done enough experimenting to know what the perfect combo FOR ME is. I've d
efinitely found the "sweet spot" ??
... But it scares me that I seek this drug combo to combat depression an
d feel normal rather than getting to the root of my depression. I think if I had
the ability or funds to stay on Amps/H 24/7, I would eventually become WAYYYY t
oo dependant on the mixture, to the point where I would be a huge mess without t
hem. Even if I had a reliable daily supply of both, at some point I'm GOING to r
un out, and then I'd realize how much of a shell of a person I am without them.
The depression I have now is NOTHING compared to the kind of HELL I would face w
hile quitting both Amp/H after 8 years of daily use! I'm pretty miserable for a
few days after just a WEEK of using lol. So It would take me a LONG time to feel
anything even close to normal after 8 years. But to each their own. You know yo
urself better than anyone, and as long as you're happy and healthy then you shou
ld take whatever combo works best for you!
Just curious though, have you ever run out of one of the two drugs durin
g the last 8 years? Or both at the same time? If so, what was it like going with
out them, I mean does it make you feel like a zombie?
Oh dear. It certainly sounds like you're well on your way to become a po
ly-drug addict. Are you actually physically dependent on the heroin yet? I might
be interpreting this wrong, but your post seemed to suggest that you're not act
ually totally addicted to either substance yet, but you love the combination and
are beginning to binge on them. Am I reading this right here? It also seems to
me like you're not grasping quite how awful it will be if you have to come off a
serious daily habit. You will wish that you were merely "feeling like a zombie"
and experiencing intense depression if you have to go through *serious* heroin
withdrawal. The added element of coming off of the Adderall simultaneously won't
even be that significant if you've become physically hooked on heroin, quitting
the adderall too may just make the awful depression that accompanies heroin wit
hdrawal that little bit worse, but honestly - like the reverse of how adderall o
verpowers the heroin high, heroin withdrawals will completely overpower the negl
igible adderall "withdrawals".
A little while back, me and a friend decided that we were going to both
get sober at the same time. I had been taking heroin daily for a little over fou
r months whereas he had been taking UK "base", which is the stronger form of amp
hetamine that you can buy on the street here, for over a year. We went away to m
y auntys summer home out in the country to do it, and figured that since we'd be
quitting together that we could be a source of strength for each other which wo
uld make it easier. WRONG. I HATED having him there, because I was insanely envi
ous of how fucking EASY he had it. I was throwing up, insanely physically uncomf
ortable, all my muscles ached, I was running to the bathroom every ten minutes,
I would have hot flashes and be pouring with sweat and then the next minute be s
hivering with chills, I couldn't stay still but I had absolutely no energy, and
my emotions alternated between being irritable and angry and pissed off at the w
orld to completely suicidally miserable, and to make it all worse I couldn't eve
n get a minute of sleep, no matter how much I tried & despite being totally exha
usted, so I didn't even get a break from it. While I was going through this, my
friend was sleeping like 12-14 hours a day whilst my insomnia was driving me cra
zy and during the time he was awake he wouldn't stop eating, to the point where
at one stage I even accused him of sneaking some weed up and not sharing it (tur
ns out that this wasn't what happened & that this is just an effect from coming
off speed), so while I was throwing up with the added fun of stomach cramps thro
wn in, this guy was just pigging out eating constantly. Whilst I was curled up i
n agony, really battling through with this horrible, horrible sickness, thinking

of nothing but just how completely shitty I felt and how badly I wanted to use,
my friend when he wasn't sleeping was just laying there on the sofa watching TV
. Sure, he seemed a little "flat" and wasn't exactly upbeat, but compared to wha
t I was going through his "withdrawal" looked like a fucking walk in the park.
I figure you've never gone through heroin withdrawal based on how you sp
oke about coming off of it and because too much adderall and heroin makes you th
row up, and in my experience that is something that would only happen to an inex
perienced user - mixing heroin and a stimulant when you have a tolerance to the
H shouldn't cause any nausea, as Adderall alone doesn't usually cause it. If you
were mixing the heroin with alcohol or something then I'd relate but as an expe
rienced user, heroin hasn't made me nauseous when I'm ON it for a long time - ir
onically, now it just makes me vomit when I HAVEN'T had any - and I've mixed her
oin with coke, crack, base etc.
This post is already kinda long and I realize the rest of the advice I h
ave to give may be a little redundant if you already have a heroin habit and get
WDs, so I'll save that unless I'm right about my initial assumption. However, I
would add that it's a little concerning that your only problem with regular com
bining of Adderall & Heroin seems to be the potential for feeling shitty when yo
u come off of them. Whilst heroin use can obviously cause a lot of problems in y
our life & there's the risk of overdose, if you're not injecting it heroin is ac
tually a really safe drug for your body & mind. It's not toxic to any organs and
doesn't cause any kind of long-term structural brain changes that are indicativ
e of damage - IMO, most of the problems are associated with addiction, and speci
fically with not being able to fund your addiction. If hypothetically you were v
ery rich and taking heroin daily, then indeed you could say that you are "happy
& healthy" and to continue taking it as it works for you.
However, this isn't the case with Adderall. It is not as benign to your
body as heroin - with long-term use comes an increased risk for high blood press
ure, heart attacks & stroke and an extremely higher risk of developing mental il
lnesses like psychosis, anhedonia and depression. Most worryingly in my opinion
is that amphetamine is neurotoxic. In this respect, you'd actually be better off
taking Ritalin or even smoking crack. While it's not as neurotoxic as meth, amp
hetamine has still been shown to cause damage to dopamine receptors, and this is
not just a case of temporary downregulation in response to the elevated levels
caused by amphetamine - amphetamine has been repeatedly shown to cause fundament
al structural changes in the brain & permanent damage to your dopamine receptors
. This has always especially frightened me, because you can get clean from any d
rug, and with most side-effects of most drugs your body can recover. If that dru
g has permanently altered your brain though, there's no going back. Many long-te
rm chronic amphetamine users are left with varying degrees of anhedonia - an inc
apacity to feel any pleasure in normal day-to-day activities, as well as symptom
s resembling depression due to the reduced capacity for the brain to register do
pamine. This can permanently alter your very personality, leaving you without th
e ability to get truly excited like you used to, making you less talkative, more
introverted, more easily fatigued, and just lacking the animated, joyful "spark
" of life.
I have personally met quite a few people who are clearly "burn-outs", th
ose who have been taking speed for a very long time, and they are a worrying sig
ht. Though long-term heroin junkies aren't the greatest advertisement for heroin
, at least (as long as they're not sick) they still have some happiness & joy in
them and it seems as if behind the opiate haze there's still a normal person th
ere, waiting to come out. With the long-term speed users, they just seem like to
tal zombies. Studies have also found that in long-term speed users, IQ, cognitio
n & motivation is significantly reduced. Bear in mind that all these effects ass
ociated with neurotoxicity have been found in many users to persist years after
stopping using speed, with strong evidence pointing towards the structural & fun

ctional changes to the brain, and especially to the ventral tegmental area, are
permanent.
So, please don't think the only issue with using this combo every day is
how bad it's going to be when you stop. Every binge, you're increasing the chan
ce of the adderall causing neurotoxicity that you won't bounce back from, so tho
ugh it's an extremely pleasurable combination, by no stretch of the imagination
can it be described as "healthy. Was I correct in assuming that you don't have a
real heroin habit yet?

Quote Originally Posted by IknowIsuckDude View Post


Stronger opiates and amphetamine's feel real nice together. So do benzo'
s and amphetamine's but i dont know if thats a smart thing to do. But it feels g
ood.
t
For sure, klonopin and adderall is one of my favorite combinations hard
to beat the feeling although I dont think ive ever mixed opiates and amps before
surprisingly

Quote Originally Posted by 024liakam View Post


t
For sure, klonopin and adderall is one of my favorite combinations hard
to beat the feeling although I dont think ive ever mixed opiates and amps before
surprisingly
If you benzos + adderall is "hard to beat" then you're gonna have a brai
ngasm if you mix adderall with oxycodone or opana or heroin.

I do it all the time. I love taking a shot after being revved up on an a


mphetamine all day.
Quote Originally Posted by Rio Fantastic View Post
If you benzos + adderall is "hard to beat" then you're gonna have a brai
ngasm if you mix adderall with oxycodone or opana or heroin.
Nice, what I like to hear haha, ive never had a chance to try opana but
id love too. Im from west virginia so its mostly heroin around here (parkersburg
) never even seen opana or oxy 30s in this area, shits more valuable than platin
um here

Thread: tianeptine as a mood enhancer while on subutex/opiate tolerant


I am interested in trying tianeptine again for its mood enhancing effect
s, perhaps a few days each week.
I know it is classified as an ssre, but others have suggested and i have
experienced that its MOA has something to do with mu opiod rrceptors or endorph
in system.
Coaxil/stablon abusers regularly inject 150mg of the drug from tablets.
To achieve an opiate like rush.

I myself injected the purepowder when i had a moderate heroin terance i


had to shoot doses of 300mg to achieve this rush but it was opiate like qnd did
stave off withdrawals for some hours.
Which leads me to believe tianeptine would be useless or its effectivene
ss dramatically reduced in persons who are opiate tolerant.
Also i would wonder if buprenorphine would block this drug entirely?
I would like to take doses of 50mg x 3 times a day on an irregular basis
and will experiment with my situation when i have some extra cash to spend.
In the meantime could anyone shed some light or give me an opinion on th
is curious drug and its effects?
Perhaps it is only opiate like in super-theraputic doses?...

I don't see any reason stablon would have a cross-tolerance with bupe.
I'm in the same boat as you precisely so let me know how that works out
for you will ya? I have problems subscribing to threads.
Quote Originally Posted by Tryptamite View Post
I am interested in trying tianeptine again for its mood enhancing effect
s, perhaps a few days each week.
I know it is classified as an ssre, but others have suggested and i have
experienced that its MOA has something to do with mu opiod rrceptors or endorph
in system.
Coaxil/stablon abusers regularly inject 150mg of the drug from tablets.
To achieve an opiate like rush.
I myself injected the purepowder when i had a moderate heroin terance i
had to shoot doses of 300mg to achieve this rush but it was opiate like qnd did
stave off withdrawals for some hours.
Which leads me to believe tianeptine would be useless or its effectivene
ss dramatically reduced in persons who are opiate tolerant.
Also i would wonder if buprenorphine would block this drug entirely?
I would like to take doses of 50mg x 3 times a day on an irregular basis
and will experiment with my situation when i have some extra cash to spend.
In the meantime could anyone shed some light or give me an opinion on th
is curious drug and its effects?
Perhaps it is only opiate like in super-theraputic doses?...
Is there any evidence that tianeptine acts on the opiate system, besides
the fact that it gives an opiate-like high and makes withdrawal less painful? I
would guess that the therapeutic effects are more related to its serotonin effe
cts, so it should still be effective (therapeutically) in someone with opiate de
pendence. That might not be true for the recreational effects though.
edit: It is an effective antidepressant during opiate withdrawal, I stil
l haven't seen anything about using both together though.
Last edited by endotropic; 11-03-2014 at 12:19.

Apparently it has no effect on seratonin, and has recently been found to


work on NMDA and AMPA. Very Nice! Just ordered some.
I have no actual evidence to say it works on opiate receptors but I woul
d be very suprised if it did not have some sort of opiate activity at higher dos
es. It does not ease WD symptoms, it completely eliminates them in sufficient do
sages.
There are others on this forum besides me with more experience using tia
neptine as an opiate like drug. I have consumed only 1.25 grams of the substance
. I did use ~20mg oral doses a few times per day for a few days during opiate WD
until I ran out. It didnt hurt, and I imagine it would have helped a lot more i
n higher doses.
I just find it difficult to get my head around it's method of action. SS
RE? Clearly there is more going on than that. TH, where did you read about it wo
rking on NMDA and AMPA?

"Formerly it was called a Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer. Newer research su


ggests that Tianeptine acts through indirect alteration of AMPA and NMDA glutama
te receptor activity and seems to involve altered neuroplasticity and release of
BDNF.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
Quote Originally Posted by TriputoryHeadicine View Post
"Formerly it was called a Serotonin Reuptake Enhancer. Newer research su
ggests that Tianeptine acts through indirect alteration of AMPA and NMDA glutama
te receptor activity and seems to involve altered neuroplasticity and release of
BDNF.[5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tianeptine
This had to of been extremely recent. I was just looking at that article
about two weeks ago and they were still calling it a SSRE.

Hmmm, tianeptine just became a lot more interesting to me.


Although the vast majority of neurons in the mammalian brain are formed
prenatally, parts of the adult brain retain the ability to grow new neurons from
neural stem cells in a process known as neurogenesis. Neurotrophins are chemica
ls that help to stimulate and control neurogenesis, BDNF being one of the most a
ctive.[9][10][11] Mice born without the ability to make BDNF suffer developmenta
l defects in the brain and sensory nervous system, and usually die soon after bi
rth, suggesting that BDNF plays an important role in normal neural development.[
12]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDNF
Sounds like tianeptine might actually be a true nootropic if this new re
search pans out. No wonder it isn't prescribed in the US.
Quote Originally Posted by MagickalKat777 View Post
Hmmm, tianeptine just became a lot more interesting to me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDNF
Sounds like tianeptine might actually be a true nootropic if this new re
search pans out. No wonder it isn't prescribed in the US.
The increase in BDNF is not a feature particular to tianeptine; it seems
to a be a common shared trait of many antidepressants, and it may be predictive
of their effectiveness in an individual:
What you can see here is a correlation between the BDNF levels and a cha
nge in depression score. It turns out that those patients with the highest level
s of BDNF to begin with, had the best improvements in depression score when trea
ted with antidepressants.
From a SciAm quick summary:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/...sant-response/
Anyway, I'm not sure if I'd say this would make it a nootropic in the wa
y you're suggesting. Depression has a dumbing effect, but can we say that this r
elease of BDNF will somehow make non-depressed individuals "smarter"? Maybe we d
on't want excess BDNF! Take a look at this:
Brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF) overexpression in the forebrain
results in learning and memory impairments.
Cunha C1, Angelucci A, D'Antoni A, Dobrossy MD, Dunnett SB, Berardi N, B
rambilla R.
Author information
Abstract
In this study we analyzed the effect on behavior of a chronic exposure t
o brain-derived neurotrophic factor (BDNF), by analysing a mouse line overexpres
sing BDNF under the alphaCaMKII promoter, which drives the transgene expression
exclusively to principal neurons of the forebrain. BDNF transgenic mice and thei
r WT littermates were examined with a battery of behavioral tests, in order to e
valuate motor coordination, learning, short and long-term memory formation. Our
results demonstrate that chronic BDNF overexpression in the central nervous syst
em (CNS) causes learning deficits and short-term memory impairments, both in spa
tial and instrumental learning tasks. This observation suggests that a widesprea
d increase in BDNF in forebrain networks may result in adverse effects on learni
ng and memory formation.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19095063
Now, obviously that's a very different situation, but it illustrates the
problems we have with assuming that more of a good thing is always a good thing
.
Quic
Depression has a dumbing effect
I think that depression exerts a far greater skewing effect on self-asse
ssment of intelligence than it does on intelligence itself.
Now, obviously that's a very different situation, but it illustrates the
problems we have with assuming that more of a good thing is always a good thing
.
Good point, and a good corrective to our tendency toward over-enthusiasm
about singular pathways.
ebola
Quote Originally Posted by ebola? View Post

I think that depression exerts a far greater skewing effect on self-asse


ssment of intelligence than it does on intelligence itself.

Good point, and a good corrective to our tendency toward over-enthusiasm


about singular pathways.
ebola
God point yourself madame, depression and dumbing. Can I have your autog
raph? I'm an Ebola fanboy : P
Whilst it could skew ones perception on their intellect, that is not a d
umbing effect.
The dumbing effect comes from dull affect/apathy, if you don't care abou
t things you once did you don't put in the effort to learn about them.
Doing nothing also has an effect. I've found my verbal communication ski
lls degraded from a few years of not talking that much.
Words become harder to find, information is harder to recall, the will t
o do so isn't even there.
I think depression facilitates stupidity not through a purely emotion ba
sis but through taking away the driving force to not be stupid/encouraging intel
lectual atrophy.
Perhaps America is just depressed... nah
so anyone on suboxone try this recreationally? I would love to get some
if every week or two I could get a nice opaite like high while not screwing up m
y subs.
Hey, it's the Neuroscience and Pharmacology Discussion forum...
Tianeptine is a mu opioid agonist (and to a lesser extent a delta opioid
agonist).
Check out this thread: http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/...be-MOR-ago
nist

Quote Originally Posted by supersmoker27 View Post


so anyone on suboxone try this recreationally? I would love to get some
if every week or two I could get a nice opaite like high while not screwing up m
y subs.
I just want to say: I was quite amazed with this compound and felt compe
lled to create an account here to respond. I have been slowwwwwwwly tapering off
Subs for over a year now (currently taking .25mg/day, yet I start to noticeably
withdraw within ~15 hours from my last dose). I've been experimenting with a wi
de assortment of noots, so figured I may as well try Tianeptine. [no sources no
prices] I decided to take a slightly-megadose for my initial attempt (~200mg), w
hich coincidentally happened to be around an hour after I dosed my Sub. I must s
ay, I felt as if I had blown ~15mg of oxycodone after NEVER having taken Subs. T
he Buprenorphine/Nalaxone seems to have absolutely no effect in blocking whichev
er receptors the Tianeptine makes sweet receptor love to. It also did not in any
way disturb my Suboxone cycle. In all honesty, I seemed to no longer NEED the S

uboxone the next two days while I continued to dose the Tianeptine. AND, to make
things better, I was even able to HALVE my daily Suboxone dose after the Tianep
tine ran out (was taking .5mg, now taking .25mg), and my normal taper reduction
would be more like .5mg --> .4mg. I was amazed. I have since ordered 20g more Ti
aneptine. I would say that the 1g I had ended up being equivalent to ~3 Oxycodon
e 30mg pills
And, from what I've read, even if Tianeptine will have withdrawals, they
should be pale in comparison to the months-long Suboxone withdrawals that were
awaiting me.
Awesome legal, cheap high!
(Disclaimer: The substance above [erm... the nootropic supplement, not t
he life-ruining narcotics supplied by my psychiatrist AKA dealer] is for research
only and should not be consumed by humans.)
Last edited by sekio; 07-01-2015 at 18:20.
This doesn't sound all that suprising given that tianeptine is an opioid
agonist. It is very probably that any opioid you took would produce a similar e
ffect. The tianeptine withdrawal may not last as long as the buprenorphine withd
rawal but the same is true for codeine. I'm not convinced that tianeptine is a g
ood solution for you because tianeptine is abused and produces a withdrawal synd
rome, so in the end it might not work any better than codeine would to wean you
off of buprenorphine.
Last edited by serotonin2A; 07-01-2015 at 21:43.

According to the binding data it shouldn't be causing an opioid high, es


pecially one that is comparable to oxycodone. Tianeptine - Ki Human of 383183nM a
nd EC50 Human of 19470nM at MOR. Enough to activate the receptors, sure, but it's
mood lifting properties are more likely mediated through it's effect on glutama
te receptors in the hippocampus.
For reference some pKi values for other MOR agonists:
Morphine - 4.55nM
Methadone - 3.16nM
Oxycodone - 23.4nM
7-OHM - 8.01 nM
I have used Tianeptine recently and I will say that it has potential as
a drug to include at the end of a taper.

Quote Originally Posted by pinpoint View Post


According to the binding data it shouldn't be causing an opioid high, es
pecially one that is comparable to oxycodone. Tianeptine - Ki Human of 383183nM a
nd EC50 Human of 19470nM at MOR. Enough to activate the receptors, sure, but it's
mood lifting properties are more likely mediated through it's effect on glutama
te receptors in the hippocampus.
For reference some pKi values for other MOR agonists:
Morphine - 4.55nM

Methadone - 3.16nM
Oxycodone - 23.4nM
7-OHM - 8.01 nM
I have used Tianeptine recently and I will say that it has potential as
a drug to include at the end of a taper.
I don't see how you can reach the conclusion you did based on the bindin
g data. The Ki and EC50 determine the concentration that a drug will be active a
t, not how efficacious it is. Just because tianeptine has lower affinity then mo
rphine doesn't mean that it couldn't produce just as strong an effect, as long a
s it is present in the brain at a high enough concentration to occupy mu recepto
rs.
(BTW, I don't think the values you cited for morphine et al are pKi sinc
e they were in nM)

According to the binding data it shouldn't be causing an opioid high


serotonin2a's essentially correct about this: binding affinity and effic
acy are only part of the picture, pharmacokinetics looming large in particular.*
However, I'm seeing tianeptine's binding as being just one order of magnitude w
eaker than oxycodone's, the latter being a pretty strong opioid...so it still se
ems plausible that tianeptine functions as a week opioid (but that this activity
could still plausibly prove key in its subjective effects).
*in some sense, both binding affinity and efficacy are abstractions from
qualitatively unique interactions between ligand and active site, resulting cha
nge in receptor geometry, and following signaling cascade, reducing such process
es to singular quantitative indicators.
ebola
Quote Originally Posted by ebola? View Post
serotonin2a's essentially correct about this: binding affinity and effic
acy are only part of the picture, pharmacokinetics looming large in particular.*
However, I'm seeing tianeptine's binding as being just one order of magnitude w
eaker than oxycodone's, the latter being a pretty strong opioid...so it still se
ems plausible that tianeptine functions as a week opioid (but that this activity
could still plausibly prove key in its subjective effects).
*in some sense, both binding affinity and efficacy are abstractions from
qualitatively unique interactions between ligand and active site, resulting cha
nge in receptor geometry, and following signaling cascade, reducing such process
es to singular quantitative indicators.
ebola
You're right that it's probably a safe bet that tianeptine isn't as stro
ng an opioid as oxycodone. But pinpoint said that tianeptine couldn't cause an o
pioid high, and I don't think the binding data implies anything of the sort. Eve
n weak opioids like pentazocine and meperidine can cause an opioid effects. More
importantly, tianeptine has reportedly been abused for it's purported opioid ef
fects and seems to relieve opioid withdrawal.
Quote Originally Posted by serotonin2A View Post
You're right that it's probably a safe bet that tianeptine isn't as stro
ng an opioid as oxycodone. But pinpoint said that tianeptine couldn't cause an o
pioid high, and I don't think the binding data implies anything of the sort. Eve

n weak opioids like pentazocine and meperidine can cause an opioid effects. More
importantly, tianeptine has reportedly been abused for it's purported opioid ef
fects and seems to relieve opioid withdrawal.
Tianeptine does most definately alleviate opioid WD symptoms. 300mg IV'd
gave me a rush while I had a moderate heroin habit. This was powder, not Coaxil
/Stablon pills.
Quote Originally Posted by 5ht2a
You're right that it's probably a safe bet that tianeptine isn't as stro
ng an opioid as oxycodone. But pinpoint said that tianeptine couldn't cause an o
pioid high, and I don't think the binding data implies anything of the sort. Eve
n weak opioids like pentazocine and meperidine can cause an opioid effects.
heh, this was precisely the point I was trying to make; sorry if I was u
nclear.
ebola

I've been trying 12mg doses here and there the last few days, and it def
initely has an effect. I am currently tapering from 6mg to 4mg suboxone/day. I'm
pretty sure it is helping.
Quick reply to this message

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Multi-Quote This Message

How does that affinity rank it among other weak opioids?


I find it interesting that it's most often compared to oxycodone. I imag
ine that's because of its short half life, generally rapid acting, short duratio
n drugs are the most euphoric, and this certainly falls in that category. I imag
ine most people who aren't getting much out of it just aren't taking enough.
I ordered 10g to substitute for suboxone when I run out. I was thinking
I'd start at 25mg 3x a day and move up to 100 2x over 3-5 days as side effects a
ppear or satiation of cravings occurs.
Quote Originally Posted by Hammilton View Post
How does that affinity rank it among other weak opioids?
I find it interesting that it's most often compared to oxycodone. I imag
ine that's because of its short half life, generally rapid acting, short duratio
n drugs are the most euphoric, and this certainly falls in that category. I imag
ine most people who aren't getting much out of it just aren't taking enough.
I ordered 10g to substitute for suboxone when I run out. I was thinking
I'd start at 25mg 3x a day and move up to 100 2x over 3-5 days as side effects a
ppear or satiation of cravings occurs.
I've taken doses past 200mgs, to the point that I started to get physica
lly sick and not once came close to achieving anything on par with oxy. The high
is very short lasting and lacking in depth, reminds me of fentanyl... it always
feels like somethings missing. It also seems to build tolerance very rapidly. A
fter maybe the first 5 doses It became essentially worthless as a recreational d
rug. I do however stick to rectal and oral dosing, you couldn't pay me to stick
this stuff in my veins. All in all after digging into two batches from different
vendors I found tianeptine very mediocre.

I didn't mean that those who found its effects unlike oxy weren't taking
enough, but those who had no effects weren't. We can all disagree over qualitat
ive effects, but whether it produces opioid effects or not isn't in argument.
As someone who isn't prescribed enough suboxone, I run out often. I was
thinking of taking it 3x daily at 100mg per dose to block withdrawal. Will that
do the trick? Was planning to start with a 25mg dose 3x daily and going up until
I stopped feeling sick.
Hammilton: That's crazy! It seems most Sub docs are all-too-eager to ove
r-prescribe the stuff. Never heard of a patient not getting enough. What's your
script, if you don't mind me asking?
As for the topic here, anyone tried this yet? Bupe and tianeptine concur
rently? Given the inexplicable effectiveness of tramadol while on Subs, I'm hopi
ng we've got another such compound on our hands.
edit: I hadn't realized this thread was in N&P; I came across it through
a Google search and had assumed from the contents that it was in BDD. I'm sorry
if my post isn't N&P-appropriate.

Just 2mg a day. At 4mg a day my cravings are eliminated, that's what I w
as on for years before my previous doc quit doing it. Went to the new doc and he
said he only prescribes 2mg. So if I were smart I'd just take 2mg every day, bu
t I'm always craving then. Take 4mg and I'm fine. So then I run out two weeks ea
rly and scrape by. Fortunately I can usually find some, but I'd like not to need
to find any, that's where Tianeptine comes in, I hope, anyway.
I've got 1 2mg dose left for tonight and then I'll start taking tianepti
ne this weekend. Maybe I should start lower doses now to see if I'll tolerate it
and not die.
That is nuts. I'm all for docs prescribing less bupe but that is obvious
ly too little for most people. I'm Rxed 8mg but only take 4 and still fight crav
ings every day. It sucks and I'm starting to think I'd be better off without any
thing tickling those receptors.
Anyway, definitely let us know how your experiments with the tianeptine
go this weekend. Good luck, hope it's effective for you.

So does Tianeptine work while on Suboxone/Subutex (aka Buprenorphine) ??


? Also would it be a good supplement to add to a detox kit while coming off Subs
?
It's not really a supplement, it's a drug.
I'm using it to come off suboxone right now. Last night was three days w
ithout subs, and 200mg last night allowed me to sleep like a baby. When it first
kicked in it felt very oxy like, but that feeling wore off over an hour. I took
another 140mg when withdrawal started appearing again in the morning and it was
gone very quickly. I'm still a little itchy from it. It's hard for me to see th
is being prescribed in 12.5mg doses, as at over 10x that I'm still entirely side

effect free. This stuff feels more benign than anything I've ever taken. A tiny
line of coke feels more threatening. Actually made me excited to go to work tod
ay.
I'm planning on using ~100mg 2x a day as necessary to hold off withdrawa
l, along with a double dose at bedtime, so 100mg in the morning, one during work
if needed and then again at bed, just until I can get some subs.

Quote Originally Posted by Hammilton View Post


It's not really a supplement, it's a drug.
I'm using it to come off suboxone right now. Last night was three days w
ithout subs, and 200mg last night allowed me to sleep like a baby. When it first
kicked in it felt very oxy like, but that feeling wore off over an hour. I took
another 140mg when withdrawal started appearing again in the morning and it was
gone very quickly. I'm still a little itchy from it. It's hard for me to see th
is being prescribed in 12.5mg doses, as at over 10x that I'm still entirely side
effect free. This stuff feels more benign than anything I've ever taken. A tiny
line of coke feels more threatening. Actually made me excited to go to work tod
ay.
I'm planning on using ~100mg 2x a day as necessary to hold off withdrawa
l, along with a double dose at bedtime, so 100mg in the morning, one during work
if needed and then again at bed, just until I can get some subs.
That's good to hear, I am sure Tianeptine is a great thing to use during
sub w/d's... Has anyone else tried it while on sub??? Besides the one post by o
ne guy in this thread saying it helped him wean down or whatever.. And if so wou
ld you need to take around a 200mg dose to get effects... maybe shall try it soo
n and see if it works.. It seems like this thread needs to get back on track "Wi
ll Tianeptine work/have effects while taking Subs" .

Hi Tryptmite. I am on 50mg of Percocet a day and would like to cut down


to 30mg. YOU say that Tianeptine eliminates WD symptoms Completely? I just want
to make sure I understand before I buy Tianeptine and start to cut back my Perco
cet. Thanks. Peace Always. Bartman57
Hey Plasticity do you think it would work for tapering off or reducing o
piates? I want to cut down using Percocet. I use 50mg daily. Thanks. Peace.
I have the VERY same question. Thanks Hammilton. Thanks.

What did I do worth thanking me for?


I'm now seven days since my last 2mg of suboxone. Well, subutex, actuall
y. Absolutely no withdrawal. It took me a while to get my dose worked out, but 1
50mg 2x a day, and 200-240mg gets me very high. I tried 240mg tonight, and in 10
minutes I was coming up quickly. I'm not going to dose this high again, it's to
o much for me, but it does feel like oxy to me. The only problem is that it is e
xtremely short lived, 1.5hrs is about it. It's no good as a recreational drug, i
mho. Too short lived and not potent enough.

However, for a quick taper, or for something to tide you over for a coup
le days when you're out, it's probably a decent option. Long term use would be r
idiculous, once tolerance would set in you'd quickly be up to taking multiple gr
ams a day. Even with my dosing scheme I'm over a half gram a day. If you were ge
tting high on it 3x a day, instead of just staying well, you could easily get to
1000mg doses. And actually, I could see someone using it many times per day due
to the short duration.
I never believed all the early reporting about how people in Russia were
getting a heroin-like high from Coaxil, I thought it was some other sedative mo
de of activity. I'm glad I was wrong.
Quote Originally Posted by Bartman57
Hey Plasticity do you think it would
piates? I want to cut down using Percocet. I
Quote Originally Posted by Hammilton
What did I do worth thanking me for?

View Post
work for tapering off or reducing o
use 50mg daily. Thanks. Peace.
View Post

I'm now seven days since my last 2mg of


y. Absolutely no withdrawal. It took me a while
50mg 2x a day, and 200-240mg gets me very high.
minutes I was coming up quickly. I'm not going
o much for me, but it does feel like oxy to me.
xtremely short lived, 1.5hrs is about it.

suboxone. Well, subutex, actuall


to get my dose worked out, but 1
I tried 240mg tonight, and in 10
to dose this high again, it's to
The only problem is that it is e

If you were getting high on it 3x a day, instead of just staying well, y


ou could easily get to 1000mg doses. And actually, I could see someone using it
many times per day due to the short duration.
Indeed, when I've lost or skipped methadone take homes I was able to fee
l totally comfortable on it for up to 48 hours. Better at times (using ~1g/day).
When using in the morning before dosing, it gets me feeling well and doing jump
ing jacks rather than having to drag myself to the clinic.
HOWEVER, it has extreme withdrawal when you get to high doses (near 1/4
- 1g per day) that last several days. At one point I was unable to see straight
for about 1 day, meaning I couldn't move around much on foot without falling. Ot
her opioids did not resolve this, which is something of a paradox, since it enti
rely resolves opioid withdrawal.
I plan to use it with a loperamide taper (the two together are a good so
lution to lack of opioids when dependent) and then the most painless tianeptine
taper I can manage over a relatively short duration after having been off methad
one a few weeks. Don't imagine it will be smooth seas, but not the 6-week hell o
f methadone cold turkey or year-long taper suggested by clinic.
Reports from most sources suggest it will stop the withdrawal from any c
ommonly used opioid
I have been on subutex for 8 years with a starting dose of 36+mg/day, an
d down to 8mg/day currently with plans to continue tapering dose. I found this b
oard searching for information regarding any contraindications for tianeptine &
subutex. I do not plan on using tianeptine recreationally, but more for anxiolyt
ic properties. I will keep you posted on how they work together with a higher do
se buprenorphine with no withdrawl symptoms.
Quote Originally Posted by Wordsm11th View Post
I just want to say: I was quite amazed with this compound and felt compe
lled to create an account here to respond. I have been slowwwwwwwly tapering off
Subs for over a year now [at 0.25mg/day] ... so figured I may as well try Tiane

ptine[....]200mg, which coincidentally happened to be around an hour after I dos


ed my Sub. I must say, I felt as if I had blown ~15mg of oxycodone after NEVER h
aving taken Subs. The Buprenorphine/Nalaxone seems to have absolutely no effect
in blocking whichever receptors the Tianeptine makes sweet receptor love to.[...
])
Thank you for sharing. No offense (truly, I mean that) but, to be honest
, I would bet my arms or legs to donuts that a Buprenorphine/Naloxone dose that
low wouldn't have blocking activity against much of anything.
I've taken subox/subutex/methadone/opiod agonists at all imsginable dosa
ges since subox became available in America ca. 2000 (?) and b4 that in other co
untries (seemed OTC in Latin America at 0.1mg 40 count) along with many US -rx-o
nly partnets in self chemistry.
Unless you have an epi/genetic mutation making you at least 8-20 x times
more susceptible than typical humans , there's close to zero chance it would ma
tter if you had 0 bupe in you or .25, due it's asymptotic floor and ceiling leve
ls. Don't get me wrong, I'm interested, since I've been taking Tian with Methado
ne or Suboxone (not sinultaneously, lol!) for... I don't know... a year give or
take. Since I have trouble under 0.5-1mg Subx Ive just gone full megadone, and I
do notice the Tia works stronger the further i am from dosing. I've even saved
up emergency 80mg takehomes, up to three in a row, by sticking to 1g Tia every 4
-6 hours. FWIW.
The affinity of tianeptine at MOP receptors isn't mind-blowing, it's har
d to compare it to weak opioids though as most of them rely on metabolites that
have a much higher affinity anyway.
Wasn't it possible to replicate effects caused by classic morphine-like
opioids by some serotonin-related mechanism? I read it long time ago in a thread
here on BL. Perhaps tianeptine brings about similar subjective effects through
a different mechanism that happens to at least partially cause the same downstre
am effects. I bet it would be possible if we only knew exactly how, e.g. cause e
ffects at a different level of the downstream process.
Just to add another data point here: I definitely feel strong opioid eff
ects from higher doses of tianeptine, and even get an uncomfortable, anxious cra
sh with a desire to redose, like I would from something along the lines of a fen
tanyl analog. I get no such feelings from kratom, or even oxycodone. For me, I h
ad to get rid of the stuff because it was so bad when the crash hit and so good
when it started.
I've got a lot of experience with opioids as a chronic pain patient. Whe
n I tried Tianeptine at normal doses (12.5 mg tid) eight years ago, I had no suc
h problems, but do remember a couple times when I'd take three at a time and go,
"Wow, I feel pretty good!". We didn't have all the MOR data back then, but now,
it's all pretty obvious.
I'd personally never touch it again.

I just want to chime in and state that though this is admittedly purely
subjective, I am 100% certain that tianeptine, taken at sufficient doses acts ev
ery bit as a full agonist, fully capable of substituting for traditional mu agon
ists. The recent literature documenting tianeptine as a mu agonist supports this
as well.
To give an idea of its effectiveness, suffice to say that when not takin

g my standard prescribed opioid (very high dose oxymorphone), I have found that
where 80mg of oxycodone taken 3 times a day still leaves me with some minor disc
omfort, 200mg of tianeptine completely abolishes any trace of withdrawal....the
caveat being that within 3 hrs max, WD rapidly begins.
In situations where I've found myself out of oxymorphone, having access
to both 240mg of oxycodone to get me through the day and a gram or 2 of tianepti
ne, I would choose the tianeptine every time to ameliorate the opana withdrawal.
For a drug most in the US have never heard of, I consider this to be perhaps th
e most significant discovery as of late with regards to tools useful in opioid w
ithdrawal.
Now what information I would love to have, as someone else has asked in
this thread, is, how will tianeptine play with suboxone. Given my near certainty
that tianeptine exerts it's incredible WD alleviating abilities via its clear m
u agonism, I have to believe the suboxone would fully block tianeptine.
But even more pressing is the question of the possibility of suboxone ca
using precipitated WD w someone who is opioid dependent and currently maintainin
g on tianeptine. For example, say I were to switch from my high dose opana to 20
0mg tianeptine taken every 3 hrs to stave off withdrawal. If after a week of thi
s regimen I decide to switch to suboxone, is it likely to cause precip WD?
Again, based on my assumption that tianeptine abolishes opioid WD due so
lely (or at least overwhelminglym so) to its mu agonism, I would hypothesize tha
t suboxone would be liable to creat precip WD just as it would if one were maint
aining on any other short acting full agonist with lower affinity. However, give
n that WD sets in pretty aggressively at then3-4 hr mark, I would think one coul
d avoid PW by waiting a mere 4 hours after last dose of tianeptine.
So...has anyone used tianeptine while on bupe, and if so, what were the
results (the tianeptine dose would have to be at least 150 mg in anyone opioid t
olerant for this to yield valid results.
AND-has anyone opioid dependent who was maintaining on tianeptine tried
switching over to bupe, and if so, what occurred?
Extraordinarily interesting drug. Begs the question of the possibility o
f the existence of, or potential development of a related chemical with much lon
ger duration. Such a drug would be absolute game changer in terms of opioid repl
acement therapy.
Lastly-for the sake of HR..yes IV tianeptine produces quite the opioid r
ush at 200mg and up in opioid tolerant individuals and even more interesting, re
peat dosing, even after a interval of 10 minute does not seem to reduce this rus
h. This is something I've never seen in any opioid. HOWEVER this chemical is the
quickest way to trash your veins that I've ever encountered. And no it's not si
mply the Russians injecting the pills that developw problems- pure tianeptine po
wder is fully capable of trashing your veins in a weeks time. Whether adjusting
th pH could mitigate this I am unsure of, but just...don't.
Hi guys,
I have experience that would be beneficial for this thread. Before getti
ng opiate addicted and getting on Suboxone, I was using Tianeptine recreationaly
at 12.5mg pils x 10 or 15 which makes 125 - 175 mgs of Tianeptine, it gave me s
trong euphoric effect compared to low dose of MDMA x Heroin. I tought this is th
e best drug I have ever tried.
Since starting Suboxone (now 9 months on), I am still prescribed Tianept
ine and sometimes trying to repeat euphoric experience by taking around 150mg, b

ut it has no effect close to what It used to have before starting Suboxone. Some
times I feel better mood, but Naloxone in Subs is greatly dimishing Tianeptine e
ffects and feel almost no euphoria. I think that this is what original poster an
d many more people of this thread were asking...
Btw in Slovakia, doctors and most patients have no clue, that It could b
e used recreationally... which is good, so It does not get banned soon. I hope.
I am 100 percent sure Tianeptine /Coaxil in my country/ has opioid affin
ity and using Suboxone and Coaxil together can mess little bit with mu receptors
, because I feel less euphoria from both, but cant help to stop using them toget
her.. Take care!
Hi guys. My first post. I basically made an account so I could post this
after a while of very educational reading.
I heard about this drug yesterday. The site I ordered from went out of t
here way to discern that I had ordered the sulfate form.
This spurred further research and from what I found, the sulfate is much
longer acting and doesnt require a re-dose. The top result on google only carri
es the sodium.
However, since one of you posted that they would love to see a longer-ac
ting version I wanted to make it known, if not already that a longer acting vers
ion now exists as a sulfate..
Hope this helps someone, as Ive noticed 80% of the posts,on this forum s
eem to have the intent of helping.. Thats what made me join anyway.
Hope everyone is having a good, safe weekend.
Edit: I updated my post. IV TIAN BAD = sent me to the E.R. in 3 weeks w/
2 different complications. Had done I've drugs 8 years w/o a complication. IV T
IAN BAD, no matter which way you prepare it, even dilluting down the solution an
d using a huge 5 cc rig to negate the basic ph, the polarity's still going to be
bad.
I can confirm that Tianeptine (sodium, the common powder) has fully quel
led my 1 1/2 year 10 grams a dayish kratom habit w/d symptoms. I also am an I.V.
drug user and know the only safe way to I.V. tianeptine is to not go over 93 mg
's per 1 cc, or else your solution becomes to viscous (I know polarities and iso
tonics are involved in its solulation, and if you try and make too strong a conc
entration it does indeed become a) glue like b) caustic to veins. It does not hu
rt to shoot but it is definitely for people w/ 5+ years I.V. experience because
it's not one you want to miss. Ever. Reports of necrosis and advanced complicati
ons are mainly linked w/ silica gel in stablon tablets. That being said this shi
t will screw up your veins, and if not for the fact that I already had serious v
ein damage anyway, I wouldn't have gone for it.
The upside: Tolerance doesn't build that fast, at least coming from a lo
w opiod habit like the kratom one I described. It's something you can binge / us
e to quiet something else for about a week max. And when 2-3 cc's worth of solut
ion are I.V'd correctly it does induce a dilaudid like rush. And that's in someo
ne who can fire 2 8 mgs dil's with no tolerance to say of (except for a decade o
f natural/mental tolerance build up/receptor damage) and not feel as high from 1
6 mgs IV dilaudid than i would 200 mgs Tianept. But it has a slightly, just ever
so slightly "different" rush and feel than Dil. Essentially for me it was like

taking a fresh drug in its own class I had never been exposed to. Although I kno
w more about the extreme side of it's use because I'm pretty sure I was I'v'ing
the first day. I could see how for someone not on the other side of quitting, so
meone early in their addiction, could get a hold of this and really fuck their s
hit up. Even abusing it orally would be unwise. Think like those crazy phenibut
habits. Well the reason you find reports of people abusing tianept. like me is b
ecause for us, it seems to work, like every time. I've mixed it w/ coke and foun
d it be amazing, basically a cheap ghetto speed ball if you will (w/ one half be
ing legal and cheap). I mean, I'm a guy whos had serious heroin habits/ binges,
I could get higher for 50 cents worth of tianept than 50 dollars of my citys str
eet dope. But it's a novelty thing in those doses, not a long term replacement /
subsistute.
Sub + Tian. I took a low dose of my one 8 mg sub im using for the detox
from kratom/ tianept. about 3 days ago i took 2-3 mgs of sub/nalax (btw people i
n case u didnt already know nalax is non active, look it up), this is like 2 day
s into my tianept switch from Kratom. No interference no percepitated w/d. that
being said i hadn't taken any sub in weeks and weeks so I would not use that rep
ort as evidence the combo is "ok".
Also as people say, potential for a terrible large habit from say, going
through more than 10 grams in 2 weeks would just get expontially worse. The sho
rt Half life means frequent re-dosing, IV coke like pin pricking, but you're cle
ar headed enough to not hurt yourself like IV coke. I can update to let everyone
know what happens after a roughly 12-16 day 5 gram binge.
UPDATE: Tian IV trashes your vein no matter which way you do it. 2-3 wee
ks and I had cellulitis and a supificial bloodclot. First drug to send me to the
E.r. and it did in 3 weeks. again IV TIAN BAD.
If anyone is considering IV'ng this. AND I CANT TALK YOU OUT OF IT, even
after reading the sentences above this, send me a pm and I will send very impor
tant, explicit directions, because I think I've got it down on multiple fronts a
s far as HR. (still harmful as fuck, but pm me if you want HR, HR is HR, all HR
is good.)
Last edited by jayjay12; 18-03-2016 at 00:38.
Quote Originally Posted by jayjay12 View Post
I can confirm that Tianeptine (sodium, the common powder) has fully quel
led my 1 1/2 year 10 grams a dayish kratom habit w/d symptoms. I also am an I.V.
drug user and know the only safe way to I.V. tianeptine is to not go over 93 mg
's per 1 cc, or else your solution becomes to viscous (I know polarities and iso
tonics are involved in its solulation, and if you try and make too strong a conc
entration it does indeed become a) glue like b) caustic to veins. It does not hu
rt to shoot but it is definitely for people w/ 5+ years I.V. experience because
it's not one you want to miss. Ever. Reports of necrosis and advanced complicati
ons are mainly linked w/ silica gel in stablon tablets. That being said this shi
t will screw up your veins, and if not for the fact that I already had serious v
ein damage anyway, I wouldn't have gone for it.
The upside: Tolerance doesn't build that fast, at least coming from a lo
w opiod habit like the kratom one I described. It's something you can binge / us
e to quiet something else for about a week max. And when 2-3 cc's worth of solut
ion are I.V'd correctly it does induce a dilaudid like rush. And that's in someo
ne who can fire 2 8 mgs dil's with no tolerance to say of (except for a decade o
f natural/mental tolerance build up/receptor damage) and not feel as high from 1
6 mgs IV dilaudid than i would 200 mgs Tianept. But it has a slightly, just ever
so slightly "different" rush and feel than Dil. Essentially for me it was like

taking a fresh drug in its own class I had never been exposed to. Although I kno
w more about the extreme side of it's use because I'm pretty sure I was I'v'ing
the first day. I could see how for someone not on the other side of quitting, so
meone early in their addiction, could get a hold of this and really fuck their s
hit up. Even abusing it orally would be unwise. Think like those crazy phenibut
habits. Well the reason you find reports of people abusing tianept. like me is b
ecause for us, it seems to work, like every time. I've mixed it w/ coke and foun
d it be amazing, basically a cheap ghetto speed ball if you will (w/ one half be
ing legal and cheap). I mean, I'm a guy who's been to Ho Chi Min city and had se
rious heroin habits/ binges, I could get higher for 50 cents worth of tianept th
an 50 dollars of my citys street dope. But it's a novelty thing in those doses,
not a long term replacement / subsistute.
Sub + Tian. I took a low dose of my one 8 mg sub im using for the detox
from kratom/ tianept. about 3 days ago i took 2-3 mgs of sub/nalax (btw people i
n case u didnt already know nalax is non active, look it up), this is like 2 day
s into my tianept switch from Kratom. No interference no percepitated w/d. that
being said i hadn't taken any sub in weeks and weeks so I would not use that rep
ort as evidence the combo is "ok".
Also as people say, potential for a terrible large habit from say, going
through more than 10 grams in 2 weeks would just get expontially worse. The sho
rt Half life means frequent re-dosing, IV coke like pin pricking, but you're cle
ar headed enough to not hurt yourself like IV coke. I can update to let everyone
know what happens after a roughly 12-16 day 5 gram binge.
If anyone is considering IV'ng this send me a pm and I will send very im
portant, explicit directions, because I think I've got it down on multiple front
s as far as HR. (still harmful as fuck, but pm me if you want HR, HR is HR, all
HR is good.)
Hey im new here cant figure out how to pm you but was interested on how
to properly iv tianeptine

Yea, talking about Tian I.V. is kind of a point of contention with me...
.Like it's the only drug to send me to the hospital ever, and it did it in less
than a month with 2 different I.v complications that could have only been tian a
t the time. So I almost deleted my post on it, but then when I went to do that s
omeone had asked a question. and I realized the whole point of blue light and HR
is people are going to do what they're going to do, so you might as well arm th
em with knowledge. So yea the knowledge is that I.V. tian screws your veins up n
o matter how you do it, even w/ a watered down 3 or 5cc rig the polarity of the
fluid isn't going to be right.
To answer about tian and sub: I gave a shot of about 150 mgs to a friend
who is on a quite low dose of sub, between 1-2 mgs a day, shot was for sure not
a miss. (everyone should keep in note tian is not one to miss with) and the res
eaults: He felt NOTHING.
and more news: A freind of mine's oral tianeptine habit got out of contr
ol: a freind gave him I think either 2 or mgs sub, this is literally like right
after hes taken tian, and the sub took about 30 minutes to completely kick all t
hat tian off the receptors and those buprenorphine guys did their lovely lovely
thing just as normal. No percipitated W/d, however length of subjects Tian habit
was only a month, but in excess of a gram a day. So, from this report, Sub take
n directly after tian, the buprenorphine has such high affinity i've found it al
ways just kicks off weaker agonists, i.e. I've done the same with a kratom habit
.

I think i accidentally deleted my last message but thanks for all the in
fo you talked me out of it for now lol but i too had a pretty long term kratom h
abit than ended up with me going back to H now im tapering off subs with benzos
and i tried oral tianeptine but the effect was short lived as others have mentio
ned im only down to like 1mg sub a day but I'm kindof a pussy when it comes to w
d you think itd be worth oral tian to taper all the way down or should i switch
back and forth for a few more days im also afraid of precip wd
Quote Originally Posted by b00mh34d5h0t View Post
I think i accidentally deleted my last message but thanks for all the in
fo you talked me out of it for now lol but i too had a pretty long term kratom h
abit than ended up with me going back to H now im tapering off subs with benzos
and i tried oral tianeptine but the effect was short lived as others have mentio
ned im only down to like 1mg sub a day but I'm kindof a pussy when it comes to w
d you think itd be worth oral tian to taper all the way down or should i switch
back and forth for a few more days im also afraid of precip wd
Quote Originally Posted by jayjay12 View Post
Yea, talking about Tian I.V. is kind of a point of contention with me...
.Like it's the only drug to send me to the hospital ever, and it did it in less
than a month with 2 different I.v complications that could have only been tian a
t the time. So I almost deleted my post on it, but then when I went to do that s
omeone had asked a question. and I realized the whole point of blue light and HR
is people are going to do what they're going to do, so you might as well arm th
em with knowledge. So yea the knowledge is that I.V. tian screws your veins up n
o matter how you do it, even w/ a watered down 3 or 5cc rig the polarity of the
fluid isn't going to be right.
To answer about tian and sub: I gave a shot of about 150 mgs to a friend
who is on a quite low dose of sub, between 1-2 mgs a day, shot was for sure not
a miss. (everyone should keep in note tian is not one to miss with) and the res
eaults: He felt NOTHING.
and more news: A freind of mine's oral tianeptine habit got out of contr
ol: a freind gave him I think either 2 or mgs sub, this is literally like right
after hes taken tian, and the sub took about 30 minutes to completely kick all t
hat tian off the receptors and those buprenorphine guys did their lovely lovely
thing just as normal. No percipitated W/d, however length of subjects Tian habit
was only a month, but in excess of a gram a day. So, from this report, Sub take
n directly after tian, the buprenorphine has such high affinity i've found it al
ways just kicks off weaker agonists, i.e. I've done the same with a kratom habit
.
Also i still have kratom at my disposal but i dont want to get stuck on
that shit again and as far as the subs ive only been on them for a month and im
down to about 1mg a day so any advice on that would be really helpful I'm trying
to quit everything but the systems working against me so im on my own ...
How bad are those kratom wd's anyway? cant be as bad or prolonged wd as heroin
or other synthetic opiates

As a curious side-note, I sort of developed a bit of a tianeptine proble


m, taking about 2 grams orally ever other day (and sometimes, everyday) for abou
t 2 months. The withdrawal was short lived and of relatively low intensity. Afte
r stopping for 2 weeks, I figured that I could use that compound perhaps once a
week at most without any problem. Also, note that very large doses seem to be co
nsiderably longer lasting. In my case, a single oral dose of 1.5 grams can be fe
lt well into the next day (assuming it was taken the previous afternoon), with a

fair degree of residual somnolence, miosis etc.


Note, cimetidine has profound effects when it comes to this compound (in
fact, I've never seen cimetidine work so profoundly). While I can normally take
1.5 grams of tianeptine in a single dose, 800mg of cimetidine turned 1 gram of
tianeptine into a sweaty, somewhat uncomfortable experience with fully pinpointe
d pupils and so forth. In fact, I nearly vomited (something notable, as I am gen
erally insensitive to the pro-emetic qualities of opioids). In a way however, ti
aneptine is more interesting (albeit far more wasteful) in the absence of cimeti
dine, as something else (something beyond MOR agonism) is clearly happening with
this compound at high doses which makes it interesting (maybe NMDA mediated).
That said, though it seems relatively benign (I think), there is an unse
ttling element when taking massive overdoses of an antidepressant in the goal of
eliciting a recreational narcosis (a dirty one at that). Nonetheless, I had a p
henomenally transcendent sexual experience with a slightly to moderately overwei
ght and somewhat homely girl after taking a total of 3+ grams of tianeptine. Gra
nted, given the relatively profound degree of narcosis I was unable to reach com
pletion (and there was some issues with tumescence) but it was an exceptionally
dream-like and ethereal encounter. I may have been hallucinating because she loo
ked phenomenal.
And just to be on topic, tianeptine may hold promise in respect to bupre
norphine withdrawal, given tianeptines short half-life and it's failure to (in m
y case) exhibit profound withdrawal symptoms on its own. That said, those with s
elf-control issues may quickly run into problems with such a short acting compou
nd.
this short acting effect from tianeptine pisses me off. hence why dosing
too high regularly is a problem. do you think if you take very little bit of ti
aneptine mixed with cimetidine will pronounce the positive effect for longer wit
hout the need for redosing and absence of what you described as nasty side effec
ts?
yikes on second note i read about cimetidine it looks like a nasty drug.
im still actively seeking anything to potentiate low dose tianeptine, any clues
and recommendations highly appreciated!

After thoroughly experiencing tianeptine while not on suboxone or other


opiate, and then getting back on the sub bus (ha that's a palindrome) and trying
tianeptine again I can say with certainty in my case that tianeptine has nearly
zero positive effects while on suboxone. Maybe there is some effect at very hig
h dose like 70-100mg but it's a complete waste of material. Tianeptine has much
more value after jumping off suboxone.
i think we all figured out this long ago that suboxies block any opiatic
effect of any drug and now you are just realizing it....
im more interested in what potentiates tianeptine even more, better with
less dose rather than what blocks it or minimizes its effect!
Quote Originally Posted by asecin View Post
i think we all figured out this long ago that suboxies block any opiatic
effect of any drug and now you are just realizing it....
im more interested in what potentiates tianeptine even more, better with

less dose rather than what blocks it or minimizes its effect!


Off topic at this point, but I've been reading reports of people having
very positive experience combining tianeptine with micro doses of psychedelics,
or dissociatives for a synergistic/potentiating result. These are for the most p
art larger doses of tianeptine, like up to 50mg.
Update 4/28 I skipped my suboxone dose today and was surprised a how muc
h tianeptine I needed to catch any sort of buzz, but it did eliminate WD symptom
s which tend to hit me fast at the 24 hr mark without suboxone. I'm hoping tomor
row I will be able to lower the doses because I should have a lot less suboxone
stuck to my receptors.
why are you taking suboxies anyway they are just few weeks regime for wd
from potent opiates after which they are not worthy of anything. and how much t
ianepts did you take to feel anything? btw you might need more and more of them
since tolerance builds so quick its annoying as hell but it is what it is
Quote Originally Posted by asecin View Post
why are you taking suboxies anyway they are just few weeks regime for wd
from potent opiates after which they are not worthy of anything. and how much t
ianepts did you take to feel anything? btw you might need more and more of them
since tolerance builds so quick its annoying as hell but it is what it is
..I know...now...but I had the misfortune of being on sub for 18 months.
..and I just was not able to get myself balanced or right in the head after I ju
mped off from a gradual taper. Four and a half months later I got back into the
program, and that was a few weeks ago. I know this time not to be on them for so
long, so I am experimenting with different ways to handle/manage the inevitable
comedown soon...
Anyone familiar with Agmatine? Sounds like it would be good for potentia
ting/lowering tolerance for tianeptine. If I can take that and be able to taper
the tianeptine after I jump off sub that's sounds like a decent plan
agmatine is one of those OTC things where you will need big doses to fee
l anything slightly likely unhelpful. i did the sulfate type for a while but i u
sed huge doses and it barely gave me a nice clean calm feeling but it wasnt wort
h the big doses and also the expense it comes with. tho i never tried it for low
ering tolerance for anything, but i have read this before that it might help so
who knows, interesting to try it before and after opiate use i guess...

I'm trying it for tolerance to opiates atm. I'll report later.


I am currently prescribed 20 mg of Suboxone daily, although I rarely tak
e more than 8 to 12 mg. This morning I took an 8 mg strip (6:30 a.m.) and stagge
red a dose of 6 grams of gabapentin between 5 a.m. and 1 p.m. I received my firs
t shipment of tianeptine this afternoon, and I dosed 100 mgs at 4:45 p.m. 50 min
utes later I didn't feel much of anything, so I started getting my supplies toge
ther for my second dose of Sub (I use grain alcohol to aid absorption). Before I
could even cut open the package, I suddenly realized that I felt slightly giddy
and light headed. I wouldn't compare it to oxy, but maybe tramadol without the
speedy, nasty, and anxious agitation that trams typically cause in me.
My point is that tianeptine definitely has an effect for someone who reg
ularly takes Subs. I'd like to abstain from the bupe for a day or two to see if

the tianeptine would work even better, but my doctor is bitching about my levels
being too low. I'm basically being forced to take way more medication than I wa
nt or need. I am thankful for bupe giving my life back, but many doctors are run
ning a plant that manufactures patients\bupe slaves. It's certainly a Catch-22 f
or any opiate addict that wants to keep a job, a roof over their head, and food
on the table. In the words of a man much wiser than I, "Ain't that some shit".
colemanito, im quite curious about this daring idea of trying tianepts w
ith suboxies for a day or two when off and report result please. i cannot believ
e doctors will keep you on such tight leash. as if being opiate slave aint enoug
h you gotta also be anyone who isnt on opiates bitch
Quote Originally Posted by asecin View Post
colemanito, im quite curious about this daring idea of trying tianepts w
ith suboxies for a day or two when off and report result please. i cannot believ
e doctors will keep you on such tight leash. as if being opiate slave aint enoug
h you gotta also be anyone who isnt on opiates bitch
I can answer that question. I have done this a few times recently. On 3
occasions between my regular suboxone regimen I have used tianeptine for 2-3 day
s at a time. The doses are pretty ridiculous compared to someone who is opiate-n
iave, about a gram a day by the 3rd day. I can imagine those doses being even gr
eater for someone who is taking 8-12 mg of subs per day, as I am only prescribed
4mg/day. Regardless I had pretty good results. If it weren't for the rapid tole
rance increase of tianeptine I would greatly prefer the effects of tianeptine ov
er suboxone. Much more light-hearted, energetic, and my body felt more balanced
in those days as well. For some reason, maybe it is the partial-agonism of subox
one, I am more likely to have loose stools on suboxone. On those few days of tia
neptine, and even a few days afterwards, I have very 'desireable' stool consiste
ncy...with that said I don't have a colon due to having a complete colectomy whe
n I was an adolescent (ulcerative colitis), so any medication that slows down my
intestinal mobility is highly desired. Suboxone doesn't have that effect on me,
so I have to revert back to my drinking a gallon of water a day and taking more
bathroom breaks than any normal person. TMI, I know, but just trying to explain
why I prefer those few days of using tianeptine maintanence over sub maintenanc
e.
With so much evidence that tianeptine can clearly substitute for opioids
, then I guess the question arises whether it's possible to modify the structure
to make it better. I don't like that carboxylic acid at the end of the chain, I
'm wondering what changing it for an amide would do (might ruin it though as wel
l).
Being at such a low dose of buprenorphine as 0.5-1mg, I suppose, you cou
ld switch to any opioid and maintain on it without withdrawal, so it is true tha
t tianeptine is no miracle drug to taper off buprenorphine, but then again no ot
her opioid seems to be so freely available. Kratom for me sounds much like trama
dol, but if it doesn't feel as dirty I might consider trying it if my buprenorph
ine taper begins to fail at some point. The truth is I'd rather taper the last m
g with codeine or DHC but unless one has access to pharm grade codeine or DHC, i
t makes no sense at all to invest money into OTC products. I might be long way f
rom getting off bupe right now, but somehow I still think it can't be more painf
ul to very slowly taper off bupe than switching to a weak opioid like codeine at
the end.
The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread v2.0
v1.0

Quote Originally Posted by AlphaOdure View Post


Okay; sorry another one here. I'm interested in VALID and WORKING potena
tion techniques everyone uses out there to boost they're opiates.
You can include boosting opiates/opioids with more or other opioids; or
other psychoactive drugs. But...
I'd prefer we focus on either opiate boosters, OR easily accessable, non
-psychoactive chemicals. But all others are welcome aside from the obvious: pot,
benzo's, alcohol etc. unless you've got something interesting to add.
Remember, include doses, time intervals, the substance, your tolerance a
nd daily use, the experience, and other specifics! So be concise, to the point,
and specific.
Pharmacological discussion is welcome and preferred! All you doctors, ne
urologists, and chemists are welcome too. Keep my use of big words in line

Antihistamines
Common OTC antihistamine potentiators
Chlorpheniramine
Cyclizine
Dimenhydrinate
Diphenhydramine
Doxylamine
Meclizine
Common Rx antihistamine potentiators
Hydroxyzine
Orphenadrine
Promethazine
Antihistamine-related potentiators
Cyclobenzaprine
Tricyclic Antidepressants
In general, the earlier (first generation) antihistamines are better sui
ted for potentiation due to their sedative properties. Newer antihistamines such
as loratidine, cetirizine and fexofenadine may relief pruritis (itching) but wi
ll not substantially add to the opioid effects. prescription status of various m
edications will vary by location also.
Cannabinoids
GABA-A Receptor Positive Allosteric Modulators (GABAergics)
Alcohol
Benzodiazepines
Barbiturates
Carbamates (see below - Skeletal Muscle Relaxants)
1,4-BDO, GBL, GHB
Nonbenzodiazepines
Quinazolinones
Valerian

NMDA Antagonists
Dextromethorphan (DXM)
Ketamine
Methoxetamine
Nitrous Oxide
Phencyclidine (PCP)
Phencyclidine Analogues
Tiletamine
Skeletal Muscle Relaxants
Baclofen
Carisoprodol
Cyclobenzaprine
Metaxalone
Methocarbamol
Orphenadrine
Opioids
Low Dose Naltrexone
Methadone
Tramadol

Just add Soma brand muscle relaxants to any opiates. Not all muscle rela
xants are good like Flexeril, that stuff sucks. Soma imo is one of the best pote
ntiating pills you could take.
I look forward to this thread....keep suggestions coming!

Does anyone know what dose of Benadryl would be required to potentiate 1


5mg of Oxycodone?

25-50 mg is generally what i take with that dose


I add 30 mg IR morphine when i take 40mg oxycodone and this works nice,
easy come down, i take it 25min after i take the oxy. I also use the CWE method
for extraction of the oxy in my endocet. 155lbs recreational/weekend user not da
ily user.
Was wondering if ingesting a Cytochrome P450 enzyme inhibitor (cimetidin
e), an hour or so before insufflating a given dose of oxycodone would benefit me
in terms of delaying the elimination of the oxycodone from the body, Or would t
he given route of administration of the oxy negate the use of the cytochrome P45
0 inhibitor?

2mg dilauded crushed mixed with "1 line" of cocaine. Much stronger than
either one by itself.

For the love of god, since the LAST opiate potnetiation thread was a zil
lion pages long, I respectfully suggest that people ONLY post legit questions an
d answers. Let's not bloat this thread with posts like "lol" and "thanks!"
Remember, future generations are going to have to read this entire threa
d looking for suggestions, let's make it easy for them and not fill this thread
with unnecessary posts.

^this. Thank you


Quote Originally Posted by Pink1966Floyd View Post
Was wondering if ingesting a Cytochrome P450 enzyme inhibitor (cimetidin
e), an hour or so before insufflating a given dose of oxycodone would benefit me
in terms of delaying the elimination of the oxycodone from the body, Or would t
he given route of administration of the oxy negate the use of the cytochrome P45
0 inhibitor?
When you potentiate via enzyme inhibition/induction, ROA is irrelevant.
The potentiation occurs by 'busying' the liver enzymes that break down the drug
of choice so to speak, so as long as the two chemicals get into your blood strea
m, it'll work... now whether or not it will potentiate it substantially is anoth
er question.

This Only works on non-codeine opioids:


A white grapfruit juce and tonic water cocktail
Tagamet and tums, If taking oraly.
DPH
Synergizers:
Soma, low doses of DXM, Narproxen, and cannabis or booze.
If you use the booze, DON'T use narproxen or vice versa.
Also, DXM keeps down tolerance, so it's even better.

I didn't find promethazine anywhere, it works amazing. And not to mentio


n combats opiate side effects.
^the second post wasn't approved while we made the list of common potent
iators but I just approved it, so its on there.

I have 2 5/325 hydrocodone pills but since i have a fairly high toleranc
e level im afraid that if i take these orally i wont get a buzz. i usually have
to take 4 or 5 of these to get a good buzz. what other ways can i take them that
would increase the high? if any.
fuck snorting them and im not going to inject them. help pls
This may get shut down as we aren't here to help you get higher. That be

ing said...
You can extract the hydrocodone doing a cold water extraction, then snor
t it or plug it. I'm not sure about enzymes but bet you want to leave them alone
to get hydromorphone and not overly process the hydrocodone. You might try some
known pontentiaters though (alcohol etc.) but would have to be extremely carefu
l.
edit:
a cold water extraction (CWE) should always be done when abusing product
s containing acetaminophen. It has a very small difference between regular dose
and overdose.
Last edited by amapola; 16-11-2010 at 19:34.

I'm going to merge your thread in with the Ultimate Opiate Potentiation
Mega Thread v2.0. It'll have the information you need.
prometazine xanax and... mixing oxy with dilaudid IV'ed together work th
e best for me

Soma ftw.
What about loperamide anybody use it as a potentiator?
oh i almost forgot soma is great for it thank you love2party
Quote Originally Posted by mrflowers00 View Post
oh i almost forgot soma is great for it thank you love2party
Captain H. listed it in his post. I'm just a big fan of soma with opiate
s, soma by itself, meh.
I tried grapefruit juice for the first time the other day. Surprisingly
it worked, I was skeptical but enough people on this site said that it worked, s
o that was good enough for me. I tried a 100% grapefruit drink I got at the gas
station across the street from the hotel I was in. I saved it for my morning dos
e because it was my last dose till i could get more. My high and nod seemed to l
ast longer. How long I am not sure, because I ended up nodding off in the car (i
was not driving) But I drank a full bottle of juice about 25 minutes before I d
osed (approx. 1/2 gram of heroin IV'd) I will definitely try it again and make i
t a habit
Hey guys, I've been taking hydrocodone for years and I'm looking for way
s to get the most of it. I've tried white grapefruit juice in the past but hones
tly have never noticed much from it. I take around 30 mg of hydro per dose, and
I was thinking of trying Tagament since I've never given it a shot.
How much Tagament to take and when? Do I also need to take an antacid at
some point before the hydro? Thanks for any advice.
Between 400 and 600mg, some people will say as much as 800. Take about a
n hour before your consumption of the hydrocodone, and tagamet (cimetidine) is a

n antacid.
The Ultimate Opiate Potentiation Thread v2.0
Quote Originally Posted by hammermal View Post
I tried grapefruit juice for the first time the other day. Surprisingly
it worked, I was skeptical but enough people on this site said that it worked, s
o that was good enough for me. I tried a 100% grapefruit drink I got at the gas
station across the street from the hotel I was in. I saved it for my morning dos
e because it was my last dose till i could get more. My high and nod seemed to l
ast longer. How long I am not sure, because I ended up nodding off in the car (i
was not driving) But I drank a full bottle of juice about 25 minutes before I d
osed (approx. 1/2 gram of heroin IV'd) I will definitely try it again and make i
t a habit
1/2 a gram, shit, do you mean like 2 and a half balloons? Why the fuk wo
uld you have to potentiate 2 and a half balloons of hammer? Sorry but I gotta as
k buddy
Hari Om
edtree

Quote Originally Posted by edtree View Post


1/2 a gram, shit, do you mean like 2 and a half balloons? Why the fuk wo
uld you have to potentiate 2 and a half balloons of hammer? Sorry but I gotta as
k buddy
Hari Om
edtree
I know people who have been heroin addicts for years, and shooting 0.3g
barely gets them off. 0.5g shots aren't unheard of.
Keep in mind this is probably somewhat cut dope (30-50% purity at its wo
rst).

I used to shoot up to 2.5g a day of brown sugar during last weeks of my


9-month adventure with heroin. But it was 20% purity so 500mg of freebase (check
ed, it was from one wholesaler; most home dealers don't even have scales so thei
r "piece" (Polish: sztuka) supposed to be 0.25g then, now 0.2g, was measured rou
ghly). Large doses aren't rare (well, I don't know now as heroin price has jumpe
d 285% up recently and I used it from October '07 to May '08 when morphine was h
ardly accessible and it was before I obtained enough equipment to do complex res
earches).
Back to the topic:
In Poland:
I haven't found a medication with chlorpheniramine that wouldn't have pa
racetamol or phenylephrine and paracetamol. So it's useless. Cyclizine, doxylami
ne, and meclizine, orphenadrine, cyclobenzaprine aren't available in Poland. Dip
henhydramine is available in combination with paracetmamol or naphazoline - usel
ess. Carisoprodol isn't available. So you see this list applies probably only to
the U.S. as a whole and there are people from all over the world on the forums.
In Poland we have these:
1) Triprolidine (Status: OTC); mostly combined with pseudoephedrine but
the dose of pseudoephedrine is too low to cause peripheral stimulant side effect
s. I haven't noticed usage of this as a potentiator. I used it once for my runny

nose and found out it's also good to be combined with my methadone.
2) Promethazine (Status: Rp.); Dipherghan is widely used as a potentiato
r.
3) Dimenhydrinate (Status: OTC); too bad it's expensive per one 50mg pil
l.
4) Hydroxyzine (Status: Rp.); my subjective experiences: causes fucking
nightmares and opioid euphoria is gone. I know it's one of the most used but in
my opinion it's not a good one.
5) Baclofen (Status: Rp.)
6) Atropine and scopolamine (from leaves of Atropa belladonna, a dose of
200-250mg dried leaves is a safe dose and a very good potentiator)
Tramadol isn't a universal opioid potentiator. It's a partial agonist on
opioid receptors, e.g. it's contradicted to use this during methadone usage and
it's not because tramadol (or rather 3-desmethyltramadol) acts on opioid recept
ors. Just from my subjective experience - its euphoric (if it can be called euph
oric, for me it's a dirty hybrid) effects come from mixed action of NAT and SERT
blockade, and some weak action at mu opioid receptors. Noradrenaline and seroto
nin play a big role in analgesic actions of tramadol added to its some action at
mu (without NAT and SERT blockade it's be of less use than codeine, being what
it is, it can be comparable to codeine in some cases - it's Rp. here and the sma
llest dose is 50mg vs. OTC medication 15mg codeine/500mg paracetamol, when Codei
num Phosphoricum 20mg tablets were available here, a Rp.w. script was needed - R
p.w. scripts aka "pink scripts" are those on which morphine and any narcotic ana
lgesics are prescribed, tramadol is the only one available for Rp.
Also, dextromethorphan may reduce tolerance to opioids but it must be ta
ken hours before injection of morphine/heroin/..., this is not suitable for addi
cts who have to repeat their doses again and again. Normally, dextromethorphan h
as been proved to augment analgesic effects of morphine when combined with it af
ter surgery. But when it's taken at once with some opioid, euphoria from opioid
is attenuated.
If one wants to potentiate morphine or heroin, codeine extracted from OT
C tablets is a better choice. When my veins fell deep under, I used codeine i.m.
before morphine, levorphanol or hydromorphone (no, this magnificent drug levorp
hanol that's the real holy grail for me isn't available as a medication) to "bri
ng up" my veins so I see them better. Of course I had to reduce the dose of the
main opioid I injected i.v. in these circumstances.
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
I know people who have been heroin addicts for years, and shooting 0.3g
barely gets them off. 0.5g shots aren't unheard of.
Keep in mind this is probably somewhat cut dope (30-50% purity at its wo
rst).
Ah Ok the stuff bin gettin here is pure straight up, the guy I've shot w
ith doesn't even bother filtering it. What I'm interested in is potentiating so
as not to, or slow down the tolerance levels.
Adder are you saying that a cwe of codeine will achieve this? At the mo
when cwe to extract the max usable amount of 450mg codeine I just can't use that
two days in a row as the 2nd dose has virtually no effect. Do you believe thoug
h that the 2nd dose will still have a potentiating effect when combined with IVi
ng?

Hari Om
edtree

Been trying the 400mg of Tagament an hour before hydrocodone dosage, and
whether placebo or not, it does seem to make it more effective.
Quote Originally Posted by edtree View Post
Ah Ok the stuff bin gettin here is pure straight up, the guy I've shot w
ith doesn't even bother filtering it. What I'm interested in is potentiating so
as not to, or slow down the tolerance levels.
Adder are you saying that a cwe of codeine will achieve this? At the mo
when cwe to extract the max usable amount of 450mg codeine I just can't use that
two days in a row as the 2nd dose has virtually no effect. Do you believe thoug
h that the 2nd dose will still have a potentiating effect when combined with IVi
ng?
Hari Om
edtree
Oh nice!
I wouldn't IV codeine for the record, there is more information about th
is in Advanced Drug Discussion.
^^ No no Just drink it about an hr after eating a grapefruit. Read the i
v codeine stuff thanks, nasty!
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin
I wouldn't IV codeine for the record, there is more information about th
is in Advanced Drug Discussion.
I wrote that I had injected codeine intramuscularly before injecting e.g
. morphine. Any opioid effects from codeine injected intravenously are overpower
ed by unpleasant and deadly effects from histamine release (tachycardia combined
with low BP, terrible headache, whole body allergy-like reactions with bumps ar
ound the place where i.v. was done and higher, e.g. if one shot codeine in his m
edian cubital vein, one would get bumps from there up to one's arm).
Adder are you saying that a cwe of codeine will achieve this? At the mo
when cwe to extract the max usable amount of 450mg codeine I just can't use that
two days in a row as the 2nd dose has virtually no effect. Do you believe thoug
h that the 2nd dose will still have a potentiating effect when combined with IVi
ng?
450mg of codeine was totally usable for me ~18 hours after an earlier in
jection and I could do it for weeks. The other thing is I didn't use it for its
opioid effects but for vasodilation resulting from histamine release so I didn't
really need it as a potentiator. Anyway, still I have never dirtied my clear op
ioid high with tramadol. As a side note: the only thing I got from tramadol inje
ction was a strange weak lightheaded feeling with a light improvement of mood. A
fter ~5 minutes it was gone, no opioid warmness. Once I went to a clinic to get
on a maintenance program, of course the physician told me he wouldn't put me on
a program. An idiot gave me a script for tramadol and told me to start at 100mg
x 4 / a day after I told him I had to take 120-160mg morphine / 40mg levorphanol
. Well, I went to the point when I took 1600mg of this shit and it didn't do a t
hing. Thanks to clonazepam I didn't get convulsions... I don't know why I persis
tently wanted to cure my withdrawal with tramadol as I had my methadone anyway a
nd quickly switched to it after 1600mg didn't work. It's funny I still have some
tramadol from that period and it makes me laugh when I see people dying to take

it. And I think "what's the fuss?".


It's useless as a potentiator for reasons given earlier. I know my subje
ctive opinion doesn't make any drug useless but articles showing it's only a par
tial agonist are definitely objective.
Useful link
http://dhost.info/cdun/documents/Opi...ine_Purdue.pdf

Quote Originally Posted by Harrisment View Post


Been trying the 400mg of Tagament an hour before hydrocodone dosage, and
whether placebo or not, it does seem to make it more effective.
I get 600mg an hour before my oxycodone dosage. Definitely makes a bette
r experience and extends the buzz for me. Cimetidine is fairly safe in higher th
an stated doses as far as I've read. I'm sure the effects maximization comes to
a halt at a certain dosage. I'm curious as to what that dose would be.

Quote Originally Posted by Been&Done View Post


Useful link
http://dhost.info/cdun/documents/Opi...ine_Purdue.pdf
It says I can't access the file.
(sorry for the double post!)
I'm getting the same and the title really gives me wonders.
EDIT: OK, that worked (stupid of me I didn't try it as it helps in numer
ous cases...). Well, it's not much of something concrete added to the topic so I
just edit out this post. I believe there was something like that posted before,
only it wasn't just Purdue drugs but all opioid-containg medications in the U.S
. So this might be useful.
Last edited by adder; 25-11-2010 at 23:04.
^^ right click, copy shortcut, paste.

One thing that no one ever seems to think about is your diet. If you are
on a very low carb high fat diet, and your body burns fat for energy instead of
carbs, which takes about a month to do. Fat, like coconut milk, will enhance an
y opiate. I am on a paleo diet, and pain pills work better now than they ever di
d before I changed my diet. And, coming off of them isn't nearly as bad. Carbona
ted alcohol gets you drunk faster, cream helps caffiene get in your system faste
r, and fats help opiate absorption. It's all biochemistry...

Yeah, it's all biochemistry or I'll put it out as neuroscience generally


for one purpose. People who take opioids because they relieve their psychologic
al pain won't spend time for any diets to start working and furthermore they won
't stick to any diets. It's psychology.

They prefer to take an opioid with some drug that will enhance its sedat
ive and depressant properties because this gives an instant effect. Some take dr
ugs that potentate opioid effects (go into synergy as they're also depressant/ad
d their effects which combine great with opioid receptors stimulations etc.) bec
ause their opioid is weak (e.g. codeine) and potentiators may allow them to expe
rience something nod-life, some will take potentiators because their tolerance i
s high and potentiating drug will make their regular dose work.
It's not the diet that is here to help because you have to wait long for
benefits. And why not? This doesn't apply only to people who are high all the t
ime and they shoot up all the time. I don't shoot up anything anymore, I take me
thadone and it's just my personality that opioids have helped me to get through
this life and it's my personality that I don't feel like going on some diet.
Also, why would I start putting more fat into myself? Is it healthy? Of
course you can go to a gym and it's alright but I prefer to have more hydrocarbo
ns with a diet that'll get rid of fat and get stronger and bigger muscles (yeah,
another thing junkies think about, I know).
Does anyone use diphenhydramine as a potentiator here? I tried to use di
menhydrinate (8-chlorotheophylline salt of diphenhydramine). I took ~54.4mg of d
iphenhydramine in this salt and it's much worse than 2.5mg of triprolidine. But
in terms of that Atropa belladonna sedating feeling all of those chemicals feel
different despite their anticholinergic action.
Oh, well, I see this could be effective at (at least) 200mg (=108.8mg) o
r I don't know else. The whole pack (5 x 50mg) might not even be enough. It's st
range, as I don't weigh much and this sedative may easily turn into a deliriant
at e.g. 400mg. I wonder if it would have the same "twilight sleep" effect as smo
ked Atropa belladonna or I would feel like shit...
Last edited by adder; 26-11-2010 at 04:53.
Quote Originally Posted by John_Burrows View Post
For the love of god, since the LAST opiate potnetiation thread was a zil
lion pages long, I respectfully suggest that people ONLY post legit questions an
d answers. Let's not bloat this thread with posts like "lol" and "thanks!"
Remember, future generations are going to have to read this entire threa
d looking for suggestions, let's make it easy for them and not fill this thread
with unnecessary posts.
Hear Hear Mr Burrows. Oh fuk, did I just faux pas
Hari Om
edtree
"I'm high and happy and needed a laugh, please sir I beg you don't kick
me in the arse"
Last edited by edtree; 19-05-2011 at 01:46.
My routine is as follows for oxycodone:
800mg cimetidine 1hr before dose
60mg dxm and 2 1/2 naproxen sodium pills (if I'm not drinking) 30min bef
ore dose.
2250mg of calcium carbonate (3 smoothie tums) to basify the stomach a li
ttle (if I'm eating it, skip if snorting) 10 min before dose.
Then dose.
Then snort half of a unisom (12.5mg of doxylamine succinate I think) whe
n I feel effects. Insufflation of unisom has a higher BA than oral, and I can fe

el the sedation kick in fast. It goes well with the opiate buzz for me. Lot's of
nod. Like now when I'm trying to type this haha.
If I'm not trying to scratch like a fiend I'll subsititute oral diphenhy
dramine (1 pill) for the unisom, but I prefer the unisom effects.
Last edited by RedBaron; 26-11-2010 at 21:57. Reason: more info
I found dimenhydrinate (8-chlorotheophylline salt of diphenhydramine) to
tally useless. I got totally confused instead of opioid potentiation. Alkylamine
s are far better than ethanolamines. And atropine with scopolamine beat them all
. I smoke 200-250mg of leaves of Atropa belladonna 2 hours after drinking methad
one syrup and taking clonazepam and I'm nodding off on a pretty low dose of meth
adone. Anyway I can't kill this damned anxiety when I'm a bit more sober and tha
t's killing me.

I haven't read about mixing Opiates with Rohypnol (Roofies) on here, and
since it was my favorite combo for a long time back in the days. Rohypnol first
and then H, since with the opposite, you don't really feel the Roofies!
I used Roofies either with booze or with Codeine for many years first be
fore doing H.
Later with mixing them, i used to get so out of it that i woke up 1 day
to find myself standing up in the hallway outside my apartment! and at around th
e same time in my life, a buddy of mine was very much into coke and was also usi
ng Roofies to come down, so i remember well (how ironic) the image of having a p
late in front of me with 3 different substances; H, Blow and Roofies
Depending on what time of the day it was or what we would be doing at th
e time, we'd mix with whatever ratio we would find suitable, an create some Supe
rDuperMultiColorfulMegaLine(s) and head to the moon
Good times...what's left from it in my memory...it's very much like a bi
g jigsaw puzzle, and some pieces are lost forever.
"What doesn't kill you, make you stronger"
Last edited by Been&Done; 28-11-2010 at 14:10.
So I am on MMT and am always trying new ways
un. Ya know double dose, benzos, herb, etc. So today
s me a handful of tums and tells me to chew them all
own metabolism of the methadone therefore leading to
o an hour later and WHAM! I was nodding hard. Anyone

to make my methadone more f


a friend at the clinic hand
up. He tells me they slow d
more being absorbed, etc. S
else tried tums before?

Yes, I've tried tums, no I am not on methadone.

You mean I eat calcium carbonate and and my methadone dose works better?
Jesus, and there isn't a single day I don't hold a piece of chalk in my hand...
I even used to eat chalk long time ago and that was justified by a doctor stati
ng that my organism supplements calcium in this way. And no, it isn't calcium su
lfate dihydrate.
Is it another myth or is it for real? And is it about calcium carbonate?
EDIT: Yeah, it's CaCO3 and MgCO3. Magnesium works good for constipation
BTW.

I know where this comes from... Methadone "likes" alkaline environment b


etter, it absorbs from stomach better when pH is higher. So basically, you could
even drink sodium dicarbonate water solution to get the same effect. It's not a
bout some magic in Tums (R), it's just chemistry. And both calcium carbonate and
magnesium carbonate have slightly alkaline reaction but to such an extent it do
esn't hurt your stomach so it's OTC.
So, it's not about methadone metabolism change. It's about methadone abs
orption rate which can really vary orally depending on pH in your stomach. I gue
ss they should start adding some weak antacid to syrups and tablets as 90% absor
ption rate is demanded, right? And it can drop to 50% or even less...
Last edited by adder; 01-12-2010 at 02:49.
Quote Originally Posted by adder View Post
You mean I eat calcium carbonate and and my methadone dose works better?
Jesus, and there isn't a single day I don't hold a piece of chalk in my hand...
I even used to eat chalk long time ago and that was justified by a doctor stati
ng that my organism supplements calcium in this way. And no, it isn't calcium su
lfate dihydrate.
Is it another myth or is it for real? And is it about calcium carbonate?
EDIT: Yeah, it's CaCO3 and MgCO3. Magnesium works good for constipation
BTW.
I know where this comes from... Methadone "likes" alkaline environment b
etter, it absorbs from stomach better when pH is higher. So basically, you could
even drink sodium dicarbonate water solution to get the same effect. It's not a
bout some magic in Tums (R), it's just chemistry. And both calcium carbonate and
magnesium carbonate have slightly alkaline reaction but to such an extent it do
esn't hurt your stomach so it's OTC.
So, it's not about methadone metabolism change. It's about methadone abs
orption rate which can really vary orally depending on pH in your stomach. I gue
ss they should start adding some weak antacid to syrups and tablets as 90% absor
ption rate is demanded, right? And it can drop to 50% or even less...
makes sense to me
Hang on though; is ph balance a personal thing ie something we have to m
easure as individuals?
and does taking substances regularly change ones natural ph balance?
I wonder if regularly taking some form of gut bacteria restorer/pro-biot
ic might help to maintain ones ph levels?
Hari Om
edtree
So taking tums with done... How many tums did you eat?
do you think this could be dangerous for some one such as myself, who do
esn't dose methadone everyday, but takes around 65mg when I do dose? I usually t
ake methadone once or twice a week. I usually get pretty high, but sometimes I w
ouldn't mind a bit more of a high...
I have found methadone gives me a lot of energy, but when I lay down and
really focus on it, I can get a tasty nod and some pretty heavy respiratory dep
ression...

I have a bunch of 5mg Cyclobenzaprine's just laying around. How well doe
s it work with opiates?
^Many people like to use cyclobenzaprine to potentiate opioids... as an
anticholinergic that is closely related to tricyclic antidepressants (which were
synthesized from first generation antihistamines such as diphenhydramine), they
'll have similar potentiation abilities/effects as tricyclics and sedating antih
istamines such as diphenhydramine (benadryl), doxylamine (unisom), hydroxyzine (
vistaril/atarax), etc.
Also, there has been LOTS of discussion inside and outside of the first
potentiation thread so check that out and do a search for more perspectives.

Tums makes sense a lot, just like any antacid medications based on calci
um carbonate. It comes from a strong base and a weak acid so its solution pH is
slightly alkaline. Sodium hydroxide pH > calcium hydroxide so sodium salts of we
ak acids would be even more effective. The question is would they be healthy for
your stomach or healthy at all. Sodium bicarbonate would change one's pH in sto
mach even better and it is an additive in food but alone in higher quantities it
may cause burns (and you can't titrate how much sodium bicarbonate would neutra
lize environment in your stomach).
It's not really potentiation-oriented then. Methadone BA can be as low a
s 40% orally. It's clear that BA will be lower if one takes methadone right afte
r eating a meal (environment in stomach is going to be more acidic). For the bes
t usage BA should be ~80%. Is it maximum? You won't push through stomach everyth
ing and pH in your stomach must be acidic for homeostasis but maybe you can push
a bit more if you make pH in your stomach just a little bit alkaline like pH=7.
05...
I guess most people don't get 80% and some say they start nodding after
taking calcium carbonate (it makes most of Tums). This could mean most people ta
ke methadone not long after their meal. I've taken calcium carbonate two days in
a row now before taking methadone and I didn't get any substantial difference,
I didn't think of that much and some slight change was noticed but it was more l
ike placebo; on the other hand I changed my methadone dose 10mg up a few days ag
o (placebo isn't bad, probably the best drug in the world under certain conditio
ns). I will try it with sodium bicarbonate tomorrow and maybe it'll make better
results.
Not sure if this is the right forum, given that this is still my 0_ post
on BL, but after looking around I've come up lots of good, albeit conflicting/c
onfused, advice: with or without research in support, some say grapefruit juice
potentiates methadone and other say no it doesn't.
Any takers? Many people seem to say that the vitamin C/citric acid in th
e grapefruit juice is what takes away from the drug's effect. So I thought, why
not take a bunch of calcium/magnesium/vitamin d supplement with the grapefruit j
uice, to maybe cross out the effects of the citric acid. Does it even work like
that - calcium supps neutralizing citric acid? I know taking too much calcium is
n't a bad thing, cause you can just drink some OJ and that does something along
those lines. Just not sure if it works the other way around...
I'm actually about to find out... Which is why I thought this might not
be the right place to post.

I took 25mg bendryl fifteen minutes ago (good all around potentiator (I
like sedation) in terms of other opiate use imho), just drank a bottle (450mL) o
f "Tropicana Ruby Red Grapefruit" juice (@30% juice...), along with 2 Grams calc
ium (as calcium carbonate and gluconate), 800mG magnesium (as magnesium oxide an
d gluconate), 75mG zinc and 1200 IU vitamin d (as cholecalciferol). (okay, not m
y genius; all this is in a supp I found AMAZING for sleep issues with benzo/z-dr
ug withdrawal I went through last summer, but that's a whole 'nother bag-o-worms
)
All of that, of course, along with my pretty little 10mg Methadone.
FYI, I've been using 0-8mg suboxone for about two months, and have been
off for about 72hrs, with a bit of H yesterday early PM.
Gonna think about all this while I sip (SLOWLY) a cup-o-kava tea.
Mods, edit at will. Friends, fellows, fiends, and finishers, I am your p
roverbial punching bag...

I'm sure that the zinc-magnesium combo would potentiate the noddy effect
s in a smooth, natural way.
And many people take calcium (like calcium carbonate in tums) to make th
e stomach less acidic before ingesting their opiate.
Personally, I only drink a little GFJ and instead focus on some cimetidi
ne, which targets a specific enzyme in the CYP450 series related to opiate metab
olism.
take
then
then
then

75 mg diphenhydramine
take a once a day vitamin
consume opiates
chief up and feel good

thanks all, I should have remembered about this thread Captain. Results
were mild but very enjoyable - I normally take 100mg of bendryl for the increase
d sedation, but I actually enjoyed the 25mg along with the vitamins. a bit less
intense, but just as relaxing. I'll really have to try the tagamet, cimetidine w
hatever acid reducer. Thanks again. Think I'll wait till Friday to repeat...
I use grapefruit juice and Phenibut and sometimes some scopolamine in tr
avel sickness pills (though I find too much of this can leave you feeling wierd)
.
Nicotine facilitates the euphoria and nod.
Don't like to use weed as it tends to over power the opiate high.

2 pills of ketoconazole will boost the fentanyl for sure(i can't say for
the other opiates cause i haven't tried)but BE CAREFUL MAN!!!ONLY FOR PEOPLE WI
TH VERY HIGH TOLERANCE!!!!You know that with fentanyl we don't play.Can someone
tell me with simetidine and fent?(how much simetidine to take and how much time

does it takes to work?)ketoconazole works slowly(about 3-7 h after you take,and


it works better with full stomach.But i say again BE CAREFUL!!And don't rush, it
will work for sure.First .
Lemon Juice inhibits CYP450 enzymes almost as well as Grapefruit -----------------------------------------------------------------------------(Sorry, no intent to double-post, but methinks this belongs here. PM me
to request I remove anything redundant with other posts.)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18968322
Application to drug-food interactions of living cells as in vitro model
expressing cytochrome P450 activity: enzyme inhibition by lemon juice.
Baltes MR, Dubois JG, Hanocq M. Talanta. 2001 Jun 21;54(5):983-7.
Abstract
... Grapefruit juice is a well-known potent inhibitor of cytochrome P450
3A4 activity. With regard to the clinical relevance of grapefruit juice-drug in
teractions, an investigation of other common juices is undertaken with this in v
itro model.... It is demonstrated for the first time that lemon juice significan
tly inhibits by 60+/-3% the CYP3A4-mediated oxidation. Grapefruit juice inhibits
this activity by 82+/-4%. The mechanism of lemon juice inhibition is competitiv
e, whereas it is mixed for grapefruit juice. ...
Lemon juice -- better, lemonade -- works almost as well as grapefruit ju
ice at potentiating almost any opioid. (This does not apply to codeine, which wo
rks by being metabolized into morphine. Others?)
Lemon juice, like Grapefruit Juice, Cimetidine, and other substances, po
tentiates by inhibiting one or more of the CYP450 liver enzymes responsible for
metabolism of opioids.
Star Fruit, too, among others. Useful to check specific fruits, esp. cit
rus, since many have some degree of inhibition.
Here is a table showing selected CYP450 substrates, inhibitors (i.e., po
tentiators), and inducers. Broken down by specific enzyme (e.g., 3A4 & 2D6, thos
e most responsible for opioid metabolism; inhibiting them is good for opis):
http://www.psychresidentonline.com/C...teractions.htm
See also:
http://www.edhayes.com/CYP450-3.html
http://www.aafp.org/afp/2007/0801/p391.html [TABLE 1, TABLE 2]

Hey guys...I know tagamet is supposed to be good but I dont have any of
that. I'm also out of atarax haha. But I've got benzos, muscle relaxers, and the
n most of the normal spine damager/back pain meds.
So what is a really good and not to difficult to obtain potentiator for
oxymorphone?
Milkshake from Mcdonalds, just try it, trust me, eat one 30 minutes befo
re, let me know
are you blowing or swallowing them? if swallowing, i heard having alcoho
l in your system helps BA. probably cant hurt with snorting either.
also, greasy/fatty foods 45min before hand, like mentioned above.

weed brings out the euphoria in an opiate more than anything else, for m
e at least.
valium feels great with opana. so does alcohol.
gotta be careful when mixing CNS depressants though, esp with opana.
Quote Originally Posted by Captain.Heroin View Post
We have a mega thread for opiate potentiation, I'll merge this into that
thread.
Hi Captain H.How are you,i hope you're full..I'll try to be soon,i take
durogesic 100mg for 7 years,h once a week now,snorting and not too much,less tha
n 500 mg.I ate 12 fuckin tagamets and i didn't feel anything,nothing at fuckin a
ll!! Can you suggest me something,all the potentiations are for OC and hydro and
others,fent doesn't play..Anwer me if you know and if you're not boring,and if
you want add me to your friend's list and tell me to do the same.I'm new in BL a
nd i really like it,but if you don't want to add me,just tell me and there's no
problem.I hope that my english was not so bad..See you.

Quote Originally Posted by MartinFn View Post


and if you want add me to your friend's list and tell me to do the same.
I'm new in BL and i really like it,but if you don't want to add me,just tell me
and there's no problem
^aww.
how could anyone not "add" him after that?
Hi, i think that if you click your name at the top(and right)on your scr
een,it will show you!do it and i'm sure that you'll understand it
Wow,what the fuck did i understand..i thought that you didn't know how t
o add a friend...maybe the 12 worked..You mean that i'm kind,i have good manners
etc.?
Quote Originally Posted by MartinFn View Post
You mean that i'm kind,i have good manners etc.?
haha, yes, i meant that you asked very nicely.
I like to stimulate my morphine "ms-contin" with Ephedrine: Anywhere fro
m 25mg to 100mg ephedrine mix with 100mg - 200mg ms contin. I know most here lik
e to enhance the sedative and depressant properties, but i like to stimulate. He
lps me get through my work day or just be more productive. Sudafed will work as
well, just not as good.
Qui
I find Damiana really enhances the euphoria when on opiates. Had an infu
sion from 15g of Damiana dry leaf after I'd had my poppy tea, never felt so euph
oric!
Interesting, I looked it up and it's a natural thing and really cheap lo
oks like, 1-5$ LOL, I'll have to order some

I know this has already been mentioned, but I thought I'd add my two cen
ts from personal experience. I find 25 mg of Hydroxyzine nicely potentates anywh
ere from 40-60 mg of Oxycodone.
Quote Originally Posted by Rx_ View Post
I like my morphine ... [with] 25mg to 100mg ephedrine... [to] get throug
h my work day ... be more productive. [&] Sudafed...
Interesting, never heard that about opioids + the "-pheds". (Pero con la
cocaina, claro, si.)
I do use downers of various species for the same. Are the combination's
effects:
Simply "doing 2 drugs at once" (i.e., complimentary effects?), or
Do you believe they actually "potentiate" ?? , for example:
--if combined effects are greater than the sum of the 2 individually;
--qualitatively different effects are due to combo and can't be felt wit
h either alone;
--or duration of effects is extended?
I've always liked mixing ups (mild) with downs (as heavily as supply per
mits): Relaxation with motivation!
Figured effects were strictly complimentary, each mitigating the other's
negatives.
Never sought book learning about this topic specifically, though.
Anyone know if it's "true" potentiation? (IMO, it IS true funness -- & m
as importante, es bien tonic of getthrumyworkdayproductively.)

When I was researching opioids I read somewhere that CNS stimulants have
the potential to increase the potency of opioids

hyoscine hydrobromide is by far the best potentiator i have found.in the


uk it is available otc as travel sickness pills,and is very cheap and far super
ior to benzos etc.give it a bash(3/4 tablets)and i know you wont be dissapointed
.
Quote Originally Posted by the bold one View Post
hyoscine hydrobromide is by far the best potentiator i have found.in the
uk it is available otc as travel sickness pills,and is very cheap and far super
ior to benzos etc.give it a bash(3/4 tablets)and i know you wont be dissapointed
.
I find the Hyoscine Hydrobromide to be effective.
600 mg enhanses the nod, though 1200 mg leaves me feeling really strange
, and my eyesight blurs.
I have a question...Can potentiation be induced after ingesting the drug

to achieve a second high ?


Lets say the most intense part of the drug causes you a rush or nodding
and lasts for about 30 minutes so say if you took the potentiater soon as you be
gan to nod can the poetentiater induce a second round high just as you begin to
come down off the nod?

Hyoscine is scopolamine. But I don't think the doses enhancing the nod a
re like 600mg. 600mg of scopolamine would kill you (look up doses for atropine u
sed in asystole). Also, I guess you mean hyoscine hydrobromide but hyoscine buty
lbromide which is a different thing. Scopolamine used to be used with morphine t
o potentiate analgesic effects.
Scopolamine butylbromide is OTC here but I don't use it. I prefer to tak
e one 6mg dextrobrompheniramine / 120mg pseudoephedrine along with my methadone.
And if I'm not lazy, I make stocks of Atropa belladonna (Deadly nightshade) lea
ves. 200-250mg of leavesp smoked brings that twilight dream.
I usually use 1 or 2 Kwells tablets
nevermind...mistook kwells for another otc sedative
If you are interested in mixing OXY and PROMETH like me than this is the
best pill saving dosage combo:
1. 30mg OC......not OP (I hate the new time release bullshit with that j
elly)
2. 125 mg of Promethazine tablets (benadryl works too)
***note: take the promethazine or benadryl tablets 30 min before taking
the OC.. i would also recommend doing this on a light stomach to maximize the ef
fects..
bassically the promethazine is able to increase the power of the OC by a
lmost half more!!! it also helps you from not scratching yourself to the bone.
HAVE FUN YALL!
Guys please why wont anyone answer my question ?!
I will ask again....can you induce potentiation after you have already i
ngested the drug ?
I asked this earlier and when no one answered so I tried it out, I took
10mg Oxy and soon as I felt it kicking in about 45 mins later I drank a glass of
pure grapefruit juice and just when I thought the Oxy rush was over I then got
a second wave rush induced from the grapefruit juice, but it felt unpleasant.
Now I dont know if what I felt was from potentiating but I asumed it was
because I dont usually get a second rush after the first ones over. So can anyo
ne confirm if potentiating about an hour after ingesting can cause this? People
usually potentiate before they take the drug so I want to know if my method is v
alid? I have a very fast metobolism and it usually takes me around 15 - 30 minut
es for anything ingest to take effects so it wasnt long befor ethe grapefruit ju

ice kicked in whilst I was already feeling the effects of the oxy.

^^Altered, you can, but at the same time you can't....I went through a p
hase where I would take diphenhydramine (and hydroxyzine when I could get it) ab
out an hour or so after taking a Norco...or three. Anyway, the point of the anti
histamine wasn't really to potentiate the hydrocodone, I general pre-load with l
orazepam or cannabis for this purpose, but mostly to knock down the itching. I h
ave since changed my opiate cocktail formula many times over, but the point is t
he diphenhydramine brought some the opiate peak effects back. It was most likely
due to the increased sedation that first generation antihistamines are so damn
good at making combining with the other sedatives (usually lorazepam) in my syst
em.
It is certainly worth more research and testing out personally though!

Thanks for replying, you said pharased that better than I did when you s
aid it "brought some the opiate peak effects back" that exactly what I was askin
g, whether potentiating afterwards can bring back some of the opiates peak effec
ts.

Not a problem, I still think it is hit-or-miss though, and I've noticed


that even though the nice warmth comes back it is short-lived.
The best way to get it back is to take more opiates

Quote Originally Posted by NeighborhoodThreat View Post


The best way to get it back is to take more opiates
Yea on that note I have another question... Does potentiating give you t
he exact same effect as just taking a higher dose of the drug ? Say you had aces
s to unlimited supply of Oxycodone then I assume one would not need to ever pote
ntiate ? Unless of course potentiating gave you an additional different sensatio
n or high then just taking a higher dose of the drug or made it last longer?
True potentiation would cause it to feel exactly like you took more of t
he same drug, playing with a Cytochrome P450 enzyme inhibitor (such as cimetidin
e)...shameless copied from Pink1966Floyd's post on the first page of this thread
! does that.
If I had access to an unlimited amount of oxycodone I would still probab
ly take benzos and/or antihistamines with it, mainly to enhance the nod while ge
tting rid of the itches. Oxycodone is one of the more itchy opiates, at least to
me.
Now if I had an unlimited supply of oxycodone and hydroxyzine, that woul
d be another story

Thanks again, you sure are knowledgeable. If there isn't any additional

enhancements from potentiating as opposed to taking more of the drug I dont thin
k I will bother with it.
I thought I read someone say potentiating makes the effects of the drug
last longer in duration which is not something you can achieve by taking a highe
r dose but its probably wrong.

Potentiate OPANA IR- anyone know a good potentiator??


It really depends on you personally, some people get a lot more out of t
aking the extra steps to potentiate whereas other people don't get much of anyth
ing. It has to do with tolerance as well as individual reaction to all the other
drugs you're taking to enhance the original drug you took...remember everybody
reacts differently to every drug. So you really just gotta experiment and find o
ut what works best for you. A lot of times I add other things just to make my su
pply last longer, if I could take more of the opiate in question I would just do
that. So it really depends on your supply situation as well.
This thread has pretty
ferent combinations. It sounds
ou're well aware (I'm sure) of
to combining opiates and other

much everything you too need to play with the dif


like opiates are your DOC (they're mine too :P) y
the cautions that need to be taken when it comes
strong depressants such as benzos and alcohol.

@ blazelate
Read through the second post (on the first page) of this thread, they're
all good potentiators

Quote Originally Posted by NeighborhoodThreat View Post


A lot of times I add other things just to make my supply last longer, if
I could take more of the opiate in question I would just do that.
Hi again,
Rather then making the "supply" last longer I was wondering whether pote
ntiation makes the "effects" last longer. Say the opiate peak lasts about 30 min
utes, can taking potentiators stretch that to say 1 hr? Because your inhibiting
liver enzymes can it actually cause the drug to be absorbed a lot slower thus ca
using longer duration and more enjoyable high as opposed to just taking a higher
dose of the drug ?
Last edited by Altered Perception; 30-12-2010 at 01:46.
I found that 600mg tagamet taken 30mins after 80mg insufflation of oxymo
rphone did not do anything I could feel, lol

Ropinirole, or any of the D2 agonists seem to potentiate opiates. I read


from some offhand accounts that it does have such an effect. I can attest to th
e fact that Requip indeed makes a difference for me at least. If anything, it he
lps with the stiff legs caused by opiates. And as far as OM potentiation and req
uip... Thats an area you may want to avoid as the combo is extremely pleasant. J
azzed up OM can go both ways.

Oh you talkin bout exorcist type dessert-launching? It's like I swallowe


d an inter-continental-ballistic missile, lol
Quote Originally Posted by Altered Perception View Post
Rather then making the "supply" last longer I was wondering whether pote
ntiation makes the "effects" last longer.
Yes that's exactly what I do with them (grafefruit, cimetidine to extend
my methadone). See, e.g.:
"Background and objectives: Cytochrome P450 (CYP) 3A4 is the main CYP is
ozyme involved in methadone metabolism. We investigated the influence of grapefr
uit juice, which contains inhibitors of intestinal CYP3A, on the steady-state ph
armacokinetics of methadone.
Methods: For 5 days, 8 patients undergoing methadone maintenance treatme
nt received 200 mL water or grapefruit juice 30 minutes before and again togethe
r with their daily dose of methadone. ...
Results: A decrease in the midazolam ratio was measured in all patients
after grapefruit juice (mean SD before grapefruit juice, 9.3 5.9; mean SD after
grapefruit juice, 3.9 1.2; P < .05). Grapefruit juice led to a mean 17% increase
in the area under the curve** extrapolated to 24 hours for both enantiomers of
methadone (range, 3% to 29% [P < .005]; range, -4% to 37% [P < .05]; and range,
1% to 32% [P < .01]; for R-, S-, and R,S-methadone, respectively). A similar inc
rease in peak level and decrease in apparent clearance were measured with grapef
ruit juice, whereas time to peak level, terminal half-life, and apparent volume
during the terminal phase of R-, S-, and R,S-methadone were not affected by grap
efruit juice. No symptom of overmedication was either detected by the clinical s
taff or reported by the patients.
Conclusions: Grapefruit juice administration is associated with a modest
increase in methadone bioavailability, which is not expected to endanger patien
ts...."
Benmebarek et al. 2004. "Effects of grapefruit juice on the pharmacokine
tics of the enantiomers of methadone." Clinical Pharmacology & Therapeutics 76,
55 63. http://www.nature.com/clpt/journal/v...t2004460a.html
I'll be honest, I was kinda disappointed to see it wasn't considered dan
gerously effective. haha no big deal here, right, but normal people would think
I'm sick I bet.
Btw wtf is the "midazolam ratio"? Not a typo (not mine anyway) for metha
done. Some measure developed in research on midazolam (if so: confusing, poor ch
oice)?
** EDIT: "Area under the curve," if I'm not mistaken, refers to the area
between the x-axis (here, representing time) and a line showing values for how
much drug remains in the body at any moment. Calculated by taking the integral.
But it has a simple everyday interpretation: In practical terms, it's close to "
having a total of 17% more drug in your blood, on average, over the entire cours
e of one day." The peak doesn't actually happen to be significantly higher, but
the line (average levels of drug) is somewhat higher throughout, especially afte
r absorption to peak levels (i.e., with GrapeFruit, some of the time there is mo
re than 17% extra drug compared to without GF, sometimes less).
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong or provide a simpler translation.
Last edited by socio; 30-12-2010 at 07:07.

Btw wtf is the "midazolam ratio"? Not a typo (not mine anyway) for metha
done? Some measure developed in research on midazolam (if so: confusing, poor ch
oice)?
I was wondering the same thing...

I am planning to use 10-20mg of Loperamide to potentiate pod tea in addi


tion to my normal potentiators of chelated magnesium glycinate, naproxen (naprox
en only once a week, accounting for risk of ulcers), DXM (taken when naproxen is
nt).
The theory is that the Loper will occupy the opioid receptors in the int
estines so MORE of the pod tea opiates go to the brain (still accounting for mor
phine's low bioavailability orally). If the science is unsound in this please do
n't hesitate to reply.
I understand the risk of increased bad stuff like impacted colons and st
uff but I'm a pretty big guy and constipation has never been too much of an issu
e on or off opiates or opioids.
I've decided against white grapefruit juice and/or cimetidine because I
actually feel more warm when the codeine in poppy tea hits me -- I know there's
a limit to how much codeine can be psychoactive at a time.