McKinney - 'There's Enough Bad Music Out There' - Microphone Check - NPR

8/8/2016
DocMcKinney:'There'sEnoughBadMusicOutThere':MicrophoneCheck:NPR
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http://www.npr.org/sections/microphonecheck/2016/08/01/487826660/docmckinneytheresenoughbadmusicoutthere
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DocMcKinneyinLosAngelesinApril.
GLAskewIIforNPR
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DocMcKinney,theMinneapolisborn,Torontolivingproducerand
managerwho'sworkedwithLucyPearl,TheWeeknd,Drake,Young
Buck,Estheroandthestand4rdspokewithusaboutbrandsand
musichehadareluctanthandintheHamburgerHelpermixtape
thatpoppedoffinthespringCanadianhiphoppastandpresent,
thewayshavingkidsaffectedhisbusinessandhisart,theideal
circumstancesforcollaboration,Spongebob,LeeScratchPerry,Janet
Jackson,thepitfallsofinterviewsandJDilla.
ALISHAHEEDMUHAMMAD:DocMcKinneywiththecrazy
smooth,"AndI'mDocMckinney"voice.
FRANNIEKELLEY:Didyoupractice?Howmuchdidyou
practice?
DOCMCKINNEY:Ipracticethisalot,Frannie.Alot.IfIcouldjust
ditchthelisp.
KELLEY:You'dhaveasecondcareer?Fourthcareer?
MCKINNEY:Yeah,ifIcouldgetridImean,youknow,Idon't
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haveaproblemwithlisps.Theyjustcancomeoffweirdsometimes.
KELLEY:Yeah.Imeanit'stricky.Ithinkaccentsandlikenot
affectationsbutlikedifferentsoundssoundreallygoodonthe
radio,andthebossesdisagree.
MCKINNEY:Really?
KELLEY:Mmhmm.
MCKINNEY:Yeah.Iworkonotheraccentsandlispsjusttothrow
peopleoff,buttheyalwayscomeoffhorrible.
MUHAMMAD:MyfavoriteisyourRudeBoy.
KELLEY:I'veheardthatbefore.
MUHAMMAD:That'sYardie.Yardietalk.
MCKINNEY:Yah,man.Yah,man.
MUHAMMAD:Yah,man.Yah,man.
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KELLEY:WellthatremindsmeofthelasttimeIsawyou,whichI
thinkwastwoyearsago.
MCKINNEY:Mmhmm.
KELLEY:ExactlytwoyearsagobecauseitwasCoachella,anditwas
OutkastCoachella,andIhavethisreallyamazingpictureofyouguys
inthelimo.DoyourememberhowwecalledanUberandalimo
showedup?Andhewaslike,"Mybad!Wejustdon'thaveanyother
cars.It'sgoingtoberegularprice!"
MCKINNEY:Yes!Idorememberthat.
KELLEY:Andsowetookaf******limofromthehousetothe
tickets.
MCKINNEY:Ithadtheneonlightsandallthat
KELLEY:andtheneonlightsthatAliwouldn'tstopplayingwith,
anditwasfullofwater.
MCKINNEY:Yeah.
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KELLEY:Ithadnoliquor.SoyouandIweremad,andAliwaslike,
"Theymadethislimojustforme!"AndsointhepictureIhave,Aliis,
like,eartoeargrin,andyou'rejustlike,"Whatthef***?"
MCKINNEY:Soundsaboutright.Like,"HowamIsupposedtodo
thiswithoutbeingdrunk?"
KELLEY:Ohgod.Andthenwegotthereandwewerelostor
something,andthentheycameandgotyouguysinthegolfcart.
MUHAMMAD:Ohyeah,that'sright.
KELLEY:Andthentheywerelike,"Frannie,here'syourstop."Then
Igotoff,wentinwiththeregularpeopleandyouguyscontinuedon.
MCKINNEY:Oh,forreal?Youdidn'thavethe

F :
KELLEY:No.Well,IwasworkingsoIdidn'twanttoIneededto
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bewiththepeople.
MCKINNEY:Itwasn'tthatlivebackstage,anyways.
KELLEY:Idon'tgiveaf***.
MCKINNEY:Yeah.I'mstillinmyradiovoice.
MUHAMMAD:Isee.
KELLEY:Yeah,you'reverychill.
MP
J : '' J F M. ' F .'
MCKINNEY:I'mtryin'togetthisjobasanothercohost.Beatout
JeanGraecauseIknowshe'sgottoomuchpersonality.So...
MUHAMMAD:We'llhaveto,Idon'tknow,changewiringinhereif
youkeepthatlowvoicegoingon.
KELLEY:Iknow.Usuallyit'shimwiththecool,calm,collected.
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MUHAMMAD:Igotthelowtone.
MCKINNEY:Yeah.I'mworkingonit.
KELLEY:Bedroominterview.
MUHAMMAD:Yeah.Wedon'tneedtwoofus,man.
MCKINNEY:AmIsupposedtotakeitbackup?
MUHAMMAD:Yougottotakeitup,man.
MCKINNEY:YouwantmetotakeituptoToronto?
KELLEY:Yeah.
MUHAMMAD:Exactly.
KELLEY:Whydon'tyoutellthestoryofhowyouguysmet?
MCKINNEY:Alright.Well,ImetAlirightafterIdidthisalbumby
wellwhenIwasapartofagroupcalledEsthero,andIhaddidthis
albumthatIthoughtwasprettygood.Iwasreallynotsurehowit
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wasgonnabereceived,butitwasreceivedprettywellandoneofthe
firstpeoplestocallme,period,wasAliandRaphaelwhosestudio
complexwe'rerightnow,RaphaelSaadiq.ShoutouttoRaphael.
KELLEY:Didtheycallyoutogether,orseparate?
MCKINNEY:Idon'tknowifitwastogetherorseparate.Iusedto
smokealotofweedupuntilsixweeksago,so
KELLEY:Ifeelyou.
MCKINNEY:let'sjustsaytheycalledtogether.Ithinkthat'sthe
imageI'll
KELLEY:Let'saskthesoberpersonintheroom.Doyourecall?
MUHAMMAD:Idon'tthinkitwastogether,because
KELLEY:Soitwaslike,ofyourownaccords.
MUHAMMAD:Yeah,butthecrazythingiswhenRaphaelandI
whichstillhappenswe'lltalkaboutasong,like,andwejustgive
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eachotherthatlooklike,"Oh,youknowthat."Youknowthat
brotherlylikeIknowwewereseparatedatbirthkindofthing.But
whatwassocrazyisthattheEstheroalbumwasn'tlikeahuge
commercialrecord,somentioningit,itwasjustlike,"Ohman,you
reallydiggingthecrates."Like,webothhadthatmutualrespect.So
yeah,that'swhathappened.Andhetoldmethathewasactuallyhad
ameetingsetupto
MCKINNEY:Ohyouknowwhat?Wehadthesamemanageratthe
time,actually.
MUHAMMAD:Wasthatwhatitwas?
MCKINNEY:Yeah.ItwasRuthCarson.ShoutoutRuthCarson.I
don'tknowwhereshe'satbut,yeah.Wehadthesamemanageratthe
time.
MUHAMMAD:Iforgotthatpart.
MCKINNEY:Wasshemanaginghim?Idon'teven
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MUHAMMAD:Shewasmanaginghim.Yeah.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,shewas.Yeah.
MUHAMMAD:Andthenmeatsomepoint.
MCKINNEY:Oh,shewas?
MUHAMMAD:Yeah.
MCKINNEY:Soweallhadthesamemanager.
MUHAMMAD:Ijumpedin.
KELLEY:Girlmadeithappen.
MCKINNEY:Yeah.
MUHAMMAD:Yeah.So,I'msorry.Youcancontinue.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,sostartallover.Wehadthesamemanagement.
KELLEY:ThisladyRuthhadaidea.
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MCKINNEY:Yeah.LadyRuthhadanidea.Sowemetupandjust
gotonreallywell,andfromtherewe,youknow,justkeptintouchall
theseyearsandhaveobviouslyworkedtogetherabunch,andyeah.
Thatwasit.IusedtogotoNewYorkquiteabit,sowheneverI'dgo
thereI'dcheckforhimandhangoutandstufflikethat.
KELLEY:IrememberwhenAliwasgoinguptoTorontoalotto
workwithyou,andhe'slovedToronto.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,he'sawelovedhavinghiminToronto.Itwas
awesome.Wehadacoolspotupthere,forwhat?Likefive,six
months?
MUHAMMAD:Yup.
MCKINNY:So,yeah,ImeanTorontolovesTribe,Ali,fromlong
timeactuallythefirstshowIwenttowhenIwenttoTorontowasa
TribeCalledQuestshow,bymyself.
KELLEY:Really?
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MCKINNEY:Bymyself.Yeah.Allbymyself.
MUHAMMAD:Really?
KELLEY:When?
MUHAMMAD:Idon'tknowifIknewthat.Wereweplaying
outside?
MCKINNEY:No.Inside,attheSpectrum.Ithinkitwasyouguys
andDeLa,Ibelieve.
MUHAMMAD:Wow.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,so
MUHAMMAD:Thatwasforeverago.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,soitwasjustmebymyself.
MUHAMMAD:That'scrazy.
MCKINNEY:Yeah.Itwasamazing.
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KELLEY:Don'tyoulikegoingtoshowslikethat?
MCKINNEY:Yeah.Idid.Well,atthetimeitwasreallyinteresting.
Itgotkindofoldquick,causethenyou'relike,"Damn.Idon'thave
anyfriends."Imeanusually,youknow,peopletalkinginyourear,
justbeingabletogetinandgetoutandallthatotherstuff.Yeah,
sometimesit'scool,butit'sfuntoturnupwithotherpeople,
obviously.
KELLEY:It'sjusttwototallydifferentthings,Ithink.
MCKINNEY:Yeah.
MUHAMMAD:CanwegoonabouttheEstherorecordfora
moment?
KELLEY:Yes.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,absolutely.
MUHAMMAD:Thatwasamasterfulalbum,man.
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MCKINNEY:Thankyou.
MUHAMMAD:Classic,frommypageandseveralothernotable
musicians.Whatwerethinkingaboutwhenyouweremakingthat
record,becausethere'ssuchamixtureofsounds.Sowhatwereyou
thinkingabout?
MCKINNEY:Man.Well,Ithink,atthetime,becauseIhadjust
movedtoToronto,Iwasactuallyjustmywhole,youknow,
experiencewasthewholeexperienceofTorontowassomething
different,creatively,thangrowingupintheTwinCities.Shoutoutto
St.Paul/Minneapolis.Butgrowinguptherewasatotallydifferent
thing.Therewaswholenewmusic.Theyhadlikereggae,calypso,
evenhousewasn'tthatbiginMinneapolis.Soitwasallthesenew
soundsthatwerelike,youknow,Iwasbeingconsumedbyanditwas
veryinspiring,nottomentiontobeabletolookoutandseeawhole
differentskyline,etc.
So,andthenIthinkjustbeinglike,justtryingtobegreat.Ithink
whenyou'redoingrecords,you'relookingtoyourpeerstobeableto
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shockthemandimpressthem,andthepeopleeventhatIwas
surroundedbyatthetime,itwasawholedifferent,youknow,a
wholedifferentkindofvibe.SosomeofthestuffactuallyIalways
sayIwasjustreallyinspiredbythecityandjustcouplethatwith
tryingtobegreatbeingabletoexperiment.ObviouslyEstherois
very,verytalented,soshedefinitelywasIthinkhelpedmetakeit
tothenextlevelfromtheinspirationstandpoint.
So,yeah,thatandalotofthesongsactuallystartedoffassongsthat
werelike,actuallyhiphopsongs.Soalotofitisfunnycause,you
know,stuffthatshewantedjustwaskindoflikethesloweddown
version.AndthenIthinkjustoncewekindoffoundoutwhatour
vibeanddirectionwasonit,beingableto,Ithink,gooutsideofthe
boxatthetimeofwhatwewerekindofintheconfinesofyou
know,whatishiphoporwhatisR&Borwhatisindierockand
abletodrawfromeverythingandyouknow,itwaswhat?Midtolate
'90s?Soitwasreallyencouragedtobedifferent.Youhadthingslike
BjorkandRadioheadand,youknow,randomotherthingsthatwere
actuallyontheradio,sothatobviouslyincorporateddifferent
texturesthatIwasreallyinspiredby.MassiveAttack,Portishead
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obviously.Wekindofgotinonthetailendoftriphop,sothatwhole
wavewasdefinitelyinspiring.
MUHAMMAD:Okay.Justwantedabackgroundonhiphop,really.
KELLEY:OK.
MUHAMMAD:Well,morethanhiphopbecausehiphop
encompassessomanydifferentgenres.Ithasfromthebeginning.So
maybethat'swhyIwasgravitatedtowardsit,butIdon'tknow.Itwas
justsomethingreallydifferentaboutthatrecord.Ineverheard
anythinglikethat.LikeMassiveAttack,butMassiveAttackdidn't
reallygrabmelikethat.WasitMorcheeba?Youknow,stufflikethat.
Idon'tknowifitwasIshouldn'tsingleoutaBritishIdon't
know.It'ssomethingdifferentaboutthoserecords.Ireallylove
them,buttheEstherorecordjusthadsomeotherlushness
happening.
Esthero - That Girl
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YouTube
MCKINNEY:Well,Ithinkit'sinteresting,causeatthetime
whichisverysimilartonowit'slike,youknow,Ihangoutwitha
lotofhiphopheads,soI'mtryingtohitthemintheheadwhenIplay
stuff.So,youknow,thoserecords,really,Idon'tfeellikewouldhave
seenthelightofdayif,youknow,iftheheadswouldn'thavebeen,
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"Yo,thiss***bangs."Or,youknow,itwaslike,IrememberSmoothe
DaHustlerwasoneofthefirstpeopletocomebythestudioandhear
jointsjustrandomly,andhewaslike,"Yo.If***withthis.Thisis
crazy."
MUHAMMAD:WhatyoudointhestudiowithSmootheDa
Hustler?
MCKINNEY:Hejustcamebywithafriendofmine,TooRude,
who'salongtimeproducerinTorontowho'sdonelikeIactually
metMonch,PharaoheMonch,throughthemandacoupleother
people.HewasdoingIthinklikeacompilationalbumhissolo
album,butitwaseverybodyfromSaukratestoSmootheDaHustler
andMonch.Sohewouldrandomlybringthembyandstufflikethat.
Hewasabigsupporterofmystuffearlyon.
Soitwasrandomlygettingtoplaytheserecordsandfor,like,real
hiphopheadsandhiphopartists,thatwasoutsideof,like,Kevin
DrewandBrendanCanningfromBrokenSocialScene.Thatwaskind
oflikethetwoworldsthatIwaspressingplayfor,andtheyallwere
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like,"Ireallyfuckwiththiss***."SoIwaslike,"Wow."Youknow,
surprised,becauseIdefinitelywasinabubbletoacertainextent,in
mylittlekitchenmakingtheserecords.
MUHAMMAD:Yeah,butyousayyouwereinabubble,butyou
don'treallyliveinabubble.Like,youintroducedmeto"I'ma
Stoner."Thatnightyouplayeditinthecarwaslike,"Dochaslosthis
mind"but
KELLEY:Wasitaconvertible?
MUHAMMAD:Nah,itwaslikethedead,coldwinterof
MCKINNEY:Toronto.
MUHAMMAD:Andhewasjustblastingthis.Iwaslike,"Whaton
earthisthis?"No,youkeepwellgroundedtothestreetstothe
pulseofyouthmusic.
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YouTube
MCKINNEY:Yeah.Well,Imean,IthinkYoungThughasbeen
prettyconsistentlyoneofmyfavoriteMCsforawhile.Ijustlovehis
voice,hisflows,everythingabouthimis,like,crazy.Andsomeofthe
lyrics,Ifeellike,aresoRichardPryoryouknow,earlyRichard
Pryoroffensivewhereyou'relike,"Damn!"Youknow,there's
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somethingthatIreallylikeaboutthat.Ifeellikealotofthestuffisn't
thatbrave,orit'sjustshockwithoutthetalent,butIfeellike,Idon't
know,histonesandhispocketisjustincredibletome.
MUHAMMAD:Whatdoyoufindthat'sexcitingabouthiphopnow
thatgivesyouthatfeelingofwhatyouexperiencedbackinlikethe
midtolate'90s?
MCKINNEY:Ifeellikedefinitelynowthere'salotmore
experimentation.Ifeellikerightnow,inthelastcoupleyears,we've
hittheceilingonsomeoftheyouknow,aftersampling,everybody
stoppedsampling.Well,atleastmoremainstreamstuff,because
peopleweresoconcernedaboutthepublishingandclearancesand
stufflikethat.Andnowalotofgreatproducersarefiguringouthow
togetthatsoundthatIgrewuploving,themselves.
Likeyourself.Youknow,realinstrumentation.Mydude,Frank
Dukeswhereyou'relike,"Wow.Thissoundslikeclassic
recordings."Greathiphopproducersactuallyspendingthetimeto
dothefoundsoundsand,youknow,randomlyrecordweirdthings
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insteadofjustlookingtolikeaMotiforaKorgforthelatestpatch.So
Ifeellikethatpartofithas,tome,beenthemostexcitingfromthe
productionside.
AndthenIfeellikefromtheMCside,Ifeellikehasbeenreallycool.
Imean,youknow,obviouslythere'sKendrick'salbum.Everything
thathe'sdone.Ilikethehonestybutalsobeing,youknow,aggressive
withithavingarealpoint,whichIfeellikeatleastlikewhatI'm
talkingabout,obviouslyweallknowthere'salotofgreat
undergroundstuff.I'mtalkingaboutstuffthatmakesittothetop
becausesomuchofit,onceitgetstothetop,hasbeendilutedtothe
pointwhere,youknow,it'sjustnotthesamething.Kendrick'slast
albumis,like,wow.HeactuallywhichIwaslike,"Oh,man.He
tookonefortheteam,"becausehecouldhavejustfollowedupwith
"SwimmingPools"andyouknow,beenthebiggestpoprapperonthe
planet.ButIfeellikeevenforstufflikethatactuallybeingreally
appreciated,youknow,watchingrallies,BlackLivesMatterusing
yoursongasaprotestsongbumbaclat.Thatissuperinspiring.It
takesmebackto'90shiphop.
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YouTube
AlsoIfeellikealotoftheartistsarecomingtogetherandyouknow,
realizingthere'smorestrengthinnumberswhichalso,too,Ifeellike
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thatwasmissedouton.Peoplewouldhavetheircrewsandstufflike
that,butnotreallybuildingtogetheroutsideofthat.NowIfeellike
there'salotmoreofthatgoingon.
KELLEY:DidyouseethatgroupofguyswhowenttotheWhite
Housetheotherdaytotalkaboutmassincarceration?
MCKINNEY:No.
KELLEY:Yeah.Idon'tknowanythingmorethanthat,butitwas
photosandpeoplesaidthatitseemslikemostofMMG,andthen
likeColeandPushaand
MUHAMMAD:Oh,andBustaandTalib.Isawphotos.
KELLEY:Ididn'tseethatitwasthem,butyeah.Yeah.Idon'tknow.
ItseemslikealotofstuffhappensbehindclosedoorsintheWhite
House.
Sointhat,andinthewaythatyouguysmet,whatdoyouhearthat
makesyouwanttobelike,"Oh,OK.Iwouldliketoworkwiththis
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person."Or,"IwouldjustliketotellthispersonIappreciatewhat
they'redoing."Or,"Thispersonisfinewithoutme.I'mjustgonna
observefromafar."Whatisitthatmakesyoukindofswitchoverand
say,"Weshouldwork?"
MCKINNEY:Forme,personally,ImeanIgrewupplayinginbands
andstufflikethat.Imean,it'sreallyjustconnection,period.Ijust
feellikealotofthisislikerightnow.Iwouldencourageyouright
now,ifwe,like,livedinthesameneighborhood,I'dbelike,"Yo,
Frannie.Yougottagetonthemic.Yougottadosomethinghere."
You'dbelike,"I'mnotreally...I'mnotreally..."Ibelike,"Yo,trust
me.Youjustgetonthemic.We'llbecool.We'lldothisgroup."That's
reallywhatitis.
I'veneverformyself,it'snotaboutthispersonyouknow,
obviously,there'sdifferentartiststhatyoumeetandyougo,"Wow,
you'reincredible,"butthatdoesn'tmeananythingifthere'snotthat
connection.Similartowhenyoumeetsomebody,youknow,you
love.You'relike,"Oh,man.Thisisaninstantconnection."You
know?Someotherconnections,it'snotthesameasthat,whenyou
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firstmeetthem,andyougottaspendtime,thenyougrowtolove
them.ButIfeellike,forme,firstandforemost,it'sthatconnection
andthenaslongasthatconnection'sthereIusuallycouldworkwith
everythingelse.Anyshortcomings,anyego,anythingelse.Aslongas,
likeQuincyJonessaid,thetrustandloveisthere,IfeellikeI'ma
prettyawesomecollaborator.
KELLEY:Gotit.
MUHAMMAD:Iagree.
KELLEY:Isitsimilar?Yeah.
MUHAMMAD:Yeah.IjustwasanadmirerofDoc'smusic,sothen
wemetinNewYork,actuallywithRaphael
MCKINNEY:Sorry,wasthisspeakingtojustourrelationship?
Sorrytocutyouoff.Orwasthatjustingeneral?
KELLEY:Both.
MCKINNEY:OK.
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KELLEY:Andwhichever.
MUHAMMAD:SowemetinNewYorkanditwasjust,like,you
know,ourveryfirsttimemeetingsomeone.Soitwaslikestraightoff
thebat.Like,man,wealladmireoneanotherandlikedeachother,
butnottoolongafterthat,TribewasdoingsomethingwithMuch
Music,andinvitedDoctocomekickitandhangout.Eversincethat,
reallythatpointwejustkindofalwaysconnected.BeitinNew
YorkorToronto.AndIdon'tthinkitwaslikewell,Iguesswedid
kindoftherewasaworkingoffthebatbecausewewereworking
onLucyPearl,andDocdidsomemusicforLucyPearl.
Ithinktheworkpartcomesafter,betweenheandI,causethat'smy
boy.Justgottosaythat,fortherecord.
KELLEY:Fulldisclosure.
MUHAMMAD:Yeah.Fulldisclosure.Butitisdefinitelyaboutthe
connectionyouhavewithanotherspiritintheroomandthat
determines,Iguess,howfaryoucantakeitandwhatyoucando.
Andyougottahave,Ithink,somesortofavisionintermsofworking
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together,too.Youfeellikethere'ssomethinginthedynamicofwhat
youeachdo,whichwillmakesomethingspecial.
KELLEY:Yeah,that'skindofwhatIwasasking.Like,istherea
pointwhereyou'relike,"Oh,Iseehowwithourpowerscombined,
wecouldmakesomethingIcouldn'tmakebymyself."
MUHAMMAD:Yeah,orsometimesyoujustwanttotrysomething.
Youknow,let'sjustturnthisstuffon.Seewhathappens.
KELLEY:Butthenbothofyouguys,separately,apartfromyour
ownrelationship,haveotherrelationshipsthathavehadtheirups
anddowns,andseparationsandcomingbacktogetherand
everything.Doesthataffectthewaythatyouhearthemusicthatyou
madewiththosepeople?
MCKINNEY:Withtheupsanddowns?
KELLEY:Mmhmm.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,Imean,Ifeellikeformeit'sfamily,right?So,
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whenyou'reabletofindresolveinsomeoftheserelationshipsthat
usuallyaremessedupoverbusiness.I'veneverhadafallingout
because,youknow,awomanthatIworkedwithsleptwithmy
girlfriend.OraguythatIworkedwith,youknow,washittingonme
toomuch.YouknowwhatImean?
KELLEY:Alright.
MCKINNEY:I'veneverhadthat.
KELLEY:Thosearereallystrongexamples.
MCKINNEY:I'mjusttryingtosayit'sneverbeenevenoddly
personallikethat.It'salwayscomedowntobusinessstuffthatkind
ofrollsoverintothepersonalthings,soIfeellikewhenyou're
sameasfamilymembers,you'reabletogetpastit.It'sjustonemore
whenyougobackintheroom,it'slikethereisnoinhibitions.
There'snoanything.Youknow,you'vegonetohellandback.You've
seentheworst.SoIfeellikeaslongasyou'reabletogenuinelyfind
theresolve,it'snotbasedin,"Oh,whatcanyoudoforme,"oryou
know,"youwanttomakemoneyhere,"butgenuinelywantingto
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worktogether,thenIfeellikeit'sjustitmakeseverythingmore
transparent,morehonest,morepurposeful.
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DocMcKinney.
GLAskewIIforNPR
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WheneverI'vehadanyproblemoranyissuewithanybody,theones
that,youknow,yougo,"It'snotthesamething."It'skindoflike
breakingupwithagirlfriend.Yougo,"Yup.Wehadagreatrunthere.
Didn'treallywork."Butwhenit'sreallysomething,it'smoreafamily
thingwhenyougo,"We'reneverbreakinguphere."Wecannottalk
toeachotherforacoupleyears,but,youknow,Ioftenequatethese
recordstohavingkids.Soyou'relike,we'reusuallygoodforbeingin
eachother'slivesforagood18yearsorso,ifnottherestofourlives.
KELLEY:Funnythatyoumentionthat.Thatwasactuallymynext
question:youhavekids?
MCKINNEY:Yup.
KELLEY:Didhavingkidschangeanythingaboutthewaythatyou
makeorlistentomusic?
MCKINNEY:Yeah,Imeanforbetterandforworse,Ifeellikewhen
youhavekids,especiallyinthisbusiness,youhaveanaccountability
toprovideforthem.There'smorenotjustinthisbusinessbut
whenyouhavekidsyouhavetoprovide,sosomeoftheselfish
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decisionsthatyoumakejustbasedoffyourownegothathavetobe
actuallyreallygolike,"Whereisthebackendonthis?Whereisthe
money?"Youknow,Ihavetwomouthstofeed.Sothatwasalittlebit
weirdtodealwithatfirstbecauseIfeltlikeattimesIdidstuffthatI
normallywouldn'tdo,inaneffortjusttoreallyprovideformy
family,and
KELLEY:Doyouregretdoingthosethings?
MCKINNEY:Yeah,becauseitjustneverworksout.
KELLEY:Whenyoudostuffforcash?
MCKINNEY:Yeah,whenIdoitformoney,it'sjustlike,I
immediatelysuck.Iimmediatelyamlikeyoucanhearitandit
doesn'tleadtoanythingmore,butothers*****gigsformoney.So,I
mean,happinessissuccessatthetopforme,right?Sothesecond
I'mnothappy,mykidsaren'thappyandthey'renotyouknow,my
kidsarevery,verywhat'stheword?Idon'tknow.Mysonboth
of'emI'veasked,"Hey,whatdoyouwantChristmas?"They're
like,"Uh,Ithinkwe'regood."Sothey'renotreallyneedykidslike
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that.Well,weren't.Shoutouttomykids,andmysonanddaughter
hittingmeupeveryweekonschedulelike,"Hey,what'sgoingon?I
wasjustwondering,Ineedsomemoney."
But,yeah,andthentotheothersideofit,just,infiniteamountof
inspiration.Theotherthingis,youknow,Ihadlovedmusicupuntil
Ihadkids,morethananything.Andthenwhenyouhavekidsyouget
thesamefulfillmentoutofwatchingyourkidwalkfromonesideof
theroomtotheother,asyoudoaswhatyoufeellikehavingwrittena
hitsongorbigtune.That'ssomethingthatreallymakesyoufeel
incredible.Also,too,toactuallygetonaplane,goacrosstheworldto
workonmusicandbeawayfromyourkidsbecomesverydifficult.So
thatwasveryproblematicforalongtime.Like,alotofthingsthatI
passedonordidn'tdojustbecauseIwassupercontentonjust
hangingoutathome,watchingSpongebob.ShoutouttoSpongebob.
Youasexualguy,you.
KELLEY:Idon'tunderstandSpongebobatall.Like,Idon't
probablybecauseIdon'thavekids,butmyfriends'kidstalktome
aboutit,andI'mjustlike,"What?Noneofwhatyou'resayingmakes
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anysense."
MCKINNEY:SpongebobstartsoffSpongebob,tome,was
amazing,butIstarteddoingacidwhenIwas13sothat's,like,as
soonasIsawSpongebob,Iwaslike,"Igeteverypartofthis."
KELLEY:Isn'ttherealsonowthere'slikeareggaepigor
somethingintheU.K.?Youheardofthis?[Franniewasconfused.
ShewasthinkingofPeppathePigandonetimesomepeoplefakeda
videoofPeppathePigenjoyingreggae.BabiesdolovePeppathe
Pigthough.]
MUHAMMAD:No.
MCKINNEY:No.Itsoundsamazingthough.
KELLEY:It'sanotherthingthatapparentlythechildrenlove,and
I'm
MUHAMMAD:I'macheckforthatassoonaswegetdone.Reggae
pig.
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KELLEY:I'msayingthenamewrong.
MCKINNEY:ARastaporkchop.Thatsoundslikeblasphemy.
KELLEY:Saidahknowswhatitis.
MCKINNEY:Thatsoundslikeblasphemy.
KELLEY:Yeah,it'sveryconfusingonalotoflevels,iswhatI'm
saying.
MCKINNEY:It'ssomeblasphemy.Idon'tknow.I'llleaveitupto
LeeScratchPerry.
MUHAMMAD:SpeakingofScratchPerry,youfollowhimon
Twitter?
MCKINNEY:IfollowhimonInstagram.
MUHAMMAD:YoufollowhimonInstagram.
MCKINNEY:HalfofmyInstagramislikerepostsofhis.
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MUHAMMAD:Whyishesointriguingtoyou?
MCKINNEY:Becauseheisthetruth.Heislike,unfilteredtruth,
andjustIdon'tknowwhathe'stappedinto,butamIallowedto
swearonhere,causeI'vebeenswearing?
KELLEY:Yeah,it'snoproblem.
MCKINNEY:OK.Imeanjustthethingsthathedidandcontinues
todo,itjustseemslikehe'stappedintofrequenciesthathejust
seemslikehedoesn't,he'snotmotivatedbyanythingotherthan
whatever,youknow,vibrationisgoingonintheplanet.Andthe
reasonsthathedoesstuffand,obviously,stuffthat'sbeen,Ifeellike,
detrimentaltohiscareerlikehecouldhavedone,youknow,way
more.Quote,unquote.Seemslikehedoesn'tcareandhe'sstill
happy.AndtomeIlookat,like,hishappinesswheneverIseehis
photo,Ilovehisoutfit.Helookslikejustthemostcolorfulsoldierof
godever.Andanydudethat'sgonna,like,nailyourmasterreelsto
thewall,orburytheminthebackyarduntilhefeelstheworldis
ready,like,that'sspeakingmylanguage.Shoutouttoallthepeople
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thatdon'tgettheirsongsfromme.
YouTube
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MUHAMMAD:Holdon.Iwasn'tevengonnagothere,butsince
youbroughtthatup,doyoufeelthatseriously.You'rereally
passionateaboutwhatyoudo,andbecauseIknowyouI'mtreading
hereonthisinterview,buttherearepeoplewhodon'tgettheirmusic
fromyou.It'sacriticismsometimes.
MCKINNEY:Oh,yeah.Yeah.IjustdealtwiththatatCoachella.A
youngartist,who'sawesome,shewaslike,"Yeah,you'renice,but
you'realso,like,mean.Younevergavemethesongs,andthenyou
saidsomethingstomethatwerehurtful,but,yet,inspiring."Yeah,I
mean,Idon'tknow.
Ifeelliketheworlddoesnotneedanymorebadmusic.SoIfeellike
I'mtryingtohelpouteverybodyhere.Now,Iknowalotofmusicthat
I'veputout,someofit'squestionable.ButIfeellikesomethingsit's
likeIdon'tknow.Yougetthatfeelinginyourgutandyouwantto
loveeverythingthatyouputout.Youcouldimagineifyouhadachild
andyou'relike,"Eh,Idon'treallylovethischild."It'sprobablynot
yours.Youknow?Sounlessyou'rereallywillingtoadoptanother
child,takeresponsibilityforthiskidfor18years,Ithinksometimes
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youshouldjustyouknow?Well,Imean,Idon'tknow.Idon'twant
tousetheword"abortthebaby"cause
MUHAMMAD:ButIgetwhatyou'resaying.You,unlikemost
producersandmusiciansreallyIshouldn'tsaythatbutthereare
quiteafewpeoplewhojustdon'treallycareandthey'lljustputitout
withouthavingarealdeeperconnectiontothespiritofwhat'sgonna
happenonceit'soutthere
KELLEY:Canyouclarifythetimelineforme?Whydoyouhaveit
andnother?Causeyouweregonnafinishit?Causeyoustarted
MCKINNEY:Yeah,sointhisscenario,whichiscommon,Idon't
just,foranyartistIwanttoworkwith,youneedtospendadayor
twointhestudiowiththem.Idon'tjust
KELLEY:Sure.
MCKINNEY:signupforproducingpeoplewithoutspendingthe
initialdayortwotokindofseewhattheirvibeis,exchangesome
ideas.Sometimesitcanactuallybeaweekortwo.Youknow?Butit's
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alllikethisisusually99%ofthetimewithpeopleI'venevermet
before.WhereI'vebeenlike,"OK.Ilikeyourmusic."Or"Metyou
out.Comebythestudioandlet'stryating."Youknow?Andthenit's
justnotinspiringmetodoanythinggreat.Or
KELLEY:OK,soyoujustsortofleaveitthere.
MCKINNEY:Ijustsortofleaveitthere,because,youknow,Ican't
it'slikeItryandforce,Itryandforceit.I'mnotintotheghost
producerthing.Icouldhanditofftosomebodyandbelike,"Cool."
Butthat'sjustnotreallymything.SoformetogetitfromAtoB,I
havetobeinspiredbyit.
Ifeellike,also,alotofgreatartiststhatIworkwithgetthesong,
whetherIlikeitornot.Youknow?Andnotbyillegalmeansjustby
beinglike,"Cool.I'mbackatyourhousetomorrow."Like,or,"I
changedsomethingtogetyouinspiredbyit."Ordidsomething.It
reallytakeslike,Ifeellike,thatchemistryandthatrelationship.
There'snoamountofmoneyyoucanpaymetobelike,"Here."I
reallygottoloveit.
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AndinthepastwhenIhadbeenlike,"Eh,Idon'treallyloveit"
Unlessit'slike,sayforinstance,Abel,TheWeeknd.Youknow,he's
superbravewithit.SoIwouldHouseofBalloonswasnotdoneto
me.Abelwaslike,"Yolet'sputoutittomorrow,"andyou'relike,
"What?It'snotdone."
Sothat'swhatImean.Someartists,Ifeellike,theyhaveastrong
visionandtheirconfidencesometimescanmakeupformy
insecuritiesormenotfeelinglikeit'sdone.Ifeellikethereistimes
whereI'mlike,"It'snotdone."Andyouknow,theartist'sbravery
andconfidencewillbelike,"OK.Ifeelcomfortable."
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YouTube
Butwhentheywhensometimesthatisn'tthere,which,notsaying
anythingabouttheartiststhathaven'tgottensongsfrommeat
times,butIlikeworkingwithalotofnewartistsjustbecauseIfeel
likeIhavemoreofa,Icantakeitanywhere,they'renotboxedinby
anyexpectations,everythingelselikethat.Butwhatcomeswiththat,
lotsoftimes,isnotreallybeingconfident,orhavingastrongvision
themselves,tocompensateformaybewhatIfeelissomeofthe
shortcomingswiththesongortheproduction.
MUHAMMAD:Youdohaveagreatvisionwhenitcomestoan
artist,astowhotheyare,andIknowthatmeansalottoyou.More
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thanjustplugginginandplaying.You'vetransitionedthatinto
outsideofthestudiobytakingonamanager'scap.How,inthat
position,whataboutanartistdrawsyoutowantingtohelpguide
theircareer?
MCKINNEY:ImeanIfeellikethemanagementthinghasalways
beenthere.I'vehadalabelandIguessI'vedonemanagementduties
whenIwasencouragedbymypartner,John,tomanage.Alotof
whatIwasalreadydoingwasmanaging.Ilikebeingapartofthe
wholeprocess.Youknow,Icomefrompublishing.Istartedoff
workinginpublishinginthebusiness,asfarasfromthebusiness
side,soIlovealltheaspectsofthat,andIlikebeingabletodream
withtheartistindifferentways,youknow,outsideofjustthestudio.
SoIfeellike,now,managementit'skindofworkedout.One:Ifeel
likeIhavealotmoretooffertheyoungerartiststhatIfeellikeneed
management,orthatIreallywanttoworkwith.Cause,actually,with
theartiststhatImanage,Iworkwiththemkindof,sortof,onthe
music,butit'sreallybasedoffofmanagementstuff.Ifeellikeit'sjust
I'mpassionateaboutthat.IfeellikeI'vebeenableto,likeIalways
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helpanartistreallykindofrefinetheirvisionandhelpthemgetan
albumright.Andsamewiththebusinessside.Ijustdidn'ttakeit
serious.Idon'tthinkIhadwell,IknowIdidn'thavethe
infrastructurebeforearoundme,causeyoudefinitelyneed
especiallymyselfneedagoodsupportingcast.
MUHAMMAD:Inthechangingworldofthemusicindustryand
theinfrastructureofhowpeoplegettheirmusic,howdoyouusethe
nowformulatomaketheartistsuccessful?
MCKINNEY:Well,reallypayattentiontowherethey'recoming
fromandthegripthattheyhaveontheirfans.Ifeelliketryingto
whatyoucoulddobeforeistherewasthistemplateofhowthings
went.Ifeelliketheartist,specificallytheartiststhatIlikeworking
with,arevery,kindof,ontothemselves.Soyouhavetobevery
awareofthesubtletiesof,youknow,theirfanbase.There'salotof
thingsthat,youknow,withAbel,Corbin,Bobby,Psymunthese
guys,youwatchthem,yougoIdon'tmanageAbelbuteven
thingsthattheydidthatIwouldn'tnecessarilyhavedonebecause
they'retappedin.Soyouhavetobereallyawareofthatnowbecause
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they'retalkingtotheworldeveryday.Soifthere'samisstepor
inconsistencies,itcanbeextremelydamaging.Soalotoftheartists
thatIworkwith,youfromthemanagementsideyouhavetobe
reallytunedin.
Ifeellikebeforeyoucouldkindofrunthetemplateandbelikethisis
howyougetfrom,youknow,heretoMTV.Now,it'sveryeasytoplay
yourselfoutbeforeyouevengot10,000followersonTwitter.Right?
So,knowingwheretheycomefrom,knowingtheculturethatthey're
involvedin,andrespectingthat1000%,andputtingthatatthe
forefront.
EspeciallytheartistsIworkwithmoney'sdefinitelysecondary.
They'retryingtochangetheworldandhave,youknow,reallyimpact
asartists.So,patienceIfeellikeyouneedalotofpatience.There's
infiniteopportunitiesnow.AlltheartistsIworkwithgetDMsand
adsaboutalltheseamazingopportunities.Beingpatientenoughto
turnstuffdown,andlookatmoreofthelonggame.So,youknow,it's
hardforthemandit'shardforme.There'salotofthingsthatI'dlike
to,"Hey.Butit'samilliondollars!"Butyoureallyhavetodialitback
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andjustkeepyoureyesonwhatyourrealintentionishere.
KELLEY:ThencanwetalkabouttheHamburgerHelpermixtape?
MCKINNEY:Yes.Absolutely.
KELLEY:So,thenwhosewasthisBobby'sidea?Likehowdoes
thatsortoffitintothephilosophyyoujustoutlined?How'dthatgo
down?
MCKINNEY:Well,BobbyRapsisagenius.IcallhimBobby
Warholcausehe'sdefinitelyverybrilliantandextremelypassionate
abouteverythinghedoes.Iwaslike,"Let'sabsolutelynotdo
HamburgerHelper."
KELLEY:Iknewit.
MCKINNEY:Iwaslike,"Uh."
KELLEY:You'relike,"Thatsoundsterrible."
MCKINNEY:Yeah,youknow.
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KELLEY:CanIjusttellyou,thatwasoneofthemosttextedthings
inrecentmemory,tome.
MCKINNEY:Really?
KELLEY:Yeah.Peoplewerelike,"Whatareyoudoing?Geton
this."
MCKINNEY:Yeah,that'swhyhe'slikeababyAndyWarhol.He
seemstosomeartiststheyjustcan'tdoanythingwrong.Like,it's
weird.Youknow,everythingjustalignsforthem.I'veseenthisafew
timeswhereyou'relike,"HowdidtheHamburgerHelperthing
becomecool?"Like,onwhatplanet?WhenSamsungandallthese
peoplearetryingtodothese"tappedinto"thismusicthingand
they'vejust,youknow,haven'tdoneitthesameway,Ithink,withthe
samekindofeffectiveness.
KELLEY:It'scauseitwasgood.
MCKINNEY:Yeah.
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KELLEY:That'swhateverybodyelsehitmeupabout.Theywere
like,"Shockeroftheday.Thisisf******dope."
MCKINNEY:Yeah,exactly.Sohewaslike,"I'mgonnadoit,"and
quitetruthfully,youknow,for$5,000.
KELLEY:Sodidtheygotohim?
MCKINNEY:Yeah,sotheywenttohim.SoGeneralMills
KELLEY:Whyhimspecifically?
MCKINNEY:BecauseGeneralMillsisbasedinMinnesotaand
Bobbyprettymuch,youknowhimandCorbinandPsymun
that'sthegroup,thestand4rd,thatthey'reinthey'relikeoneofthe
biggerthings,ifnotthebiggestthings,innewmusicinthecity.So,
beingthere,themarketingdepartmentarefansofhim,youknow,
comingtohisshowsandstufflikethat,sotheyaskedhimtodoit,
andIwaslike,"Absolutelynot."ThenIwastryingtofigureouthow
todoitandbelike,"OKcool.RollitintoyourDJcollective,"withhis
partnerDJTipshoutouttoTipthatheDJswith.AndIwaslike,
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"OK,maybewedoitasthat."TakeofftheBobbyRapsandjustkind
ofletitliveasthat.Causetheywantedthemtodonumeroussongs
onthemixtape.
So,yeah.Iwaslike,"Cool.Let'snotdoit."Bobbywaslike,"Butit's
$5,000."Iwaslike,"It's$2,500splitbetweenyouandTip."But
whenyou'relivinginthestudio,likethat'salotofmoney,andin
Minneapolisthat'slikeayearandahalfworthofstudiorent.Soit's
biggermoneythanitisinLAorNewYork.Youcoulddefinitely
stretchthatintheTwinCitiesforawhile.
Andthenonceitcameout,itwasliketheHamburgerHelperguys
weregreat.It'scrazythatI'msayin'that.ShoutouttoRalph.Shout
outtomyguysatHamburgerHelper.Lefty,whatup.Youcanget
thatfingerback,homes.Soyeah,theywereverythey'reallreally
cool,andIgetit.They'rereallyliketheywereatBobby'sshows
beforethisandstufflikethat,sotheyreallyandIthinkwith
Bobby'sthing,youknow,hedoesn'tmindtakingthepissoutof
himself.He'sgotasongcalled"FukMyBabyMama,"andhedoesn't
haveababymama.
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KELLEY:Icanseewhy.
MCKINNEY:SohimandCorbinbothdon'tmindclowningand
havingfunwiththemusic.Soitworkedwiththat.Onceitcameout,
wehadtobelike,"Wow.OK.Howarewegoingtowait.Changeit
fromDequexatrontoBobbyRaps."So,justtryingtotakeadvantage.
Imeanitgotlike,what,fivemillionspinsonSoundCloudsofarin
thelastcoupleweeks?IthinkitsaysalottoBobby'sartistryand
production.Hedidthebeatandthesong.Heliterallyknockedout
thevocalslikeanhourbeforeithadtobedelivered.
Helper
FeedTheStreets(prod.DEQUEXATRONX000BobbyRaps&DJTiiiiiiiiiip)
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So,yeah,thosedecisionsonceagainandIhavetosaythis:Iwas
notgoingtodoit.Andthenevenwhenitcameout,theyhadputon
SoundCloud,whichtheyweren'tsupposedtodo,DequexatronX000
andthenBobbyRapsandTipunderneathit.Thatwasnotthedeal.It
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wassupposedtobejust,whatever.SoIhadwentfromcallingthem
toscreamonthem,belike,"Whatareya'lldoing?"tobeinglike,
"Um,sorry.Canyouputtheirnamebigger?"
IwasactuallywalkingtotheofficewithmydudeTroubleAndrew,
who'skillingitwiththeGucciGhoststuffanddoingthefalllineof
theGucciwomen'sline,andhewaslike,"Whatareyoutalking
about?Thisiscrazy."So,perfectexampleoflike,it'seasytoknowtoo
muchordoittheabsolutewrongway.Yougottabe,kindoflike
tappedin,andonceitwaslikegoing,Iwaslike,"Oh.ThisisanAndy
Warholmoment."Youknow?
KELLEY:Iwholeheartedlyagreethatthere'splentyofbadmusic
outthere,butpartlybecauseofthat,theredoesseemtobethis
chancewhereifsomethingisreallygoodpeoplecanrecognizethat.
Andit'sextracelebratedcausethere'ssomuchb*******thatis
gettingcrammeddownourthroatsallthetime.Thewaythatpeople
areworkingwithbrandsisodd,andunpredictabletome,anyway.I
wonderwhatpeoplearegonnaregretinthatwaydowntheroad.
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MUHAMMAD:Oh,itwillbeamountainpileofregrets.Thatjust
happens.ButIdon'tthinkanythingwell,Iwasjustthinkingthat
thefirstthingthatthingthatcametomindwasMaryJBlige
KentuckyFriedChickencommercial,but
MCKINNEY:Ilovethatcommercial.
MUHAMMAD:But,yeah,Imean,itdefinitelyserveditspurpose.I
don'tthinkthatanyonehasdoneanythingsoshameful,unlessmy
memoryisjustfaded,butthatjustcomeswithlife.Like,youknow,
you'lldosomethingbecauseitseemedlike,inthemoment,theright
thingtodobeitfromacreativeperspectiveorfinancial.It'snot
alwaysfinancial.Anditjustseemslikeitwasthethingtodo,and
thenyoufindoutlater,like,"Man,yeah.OK.Wemadeamistake."
Butthat'sthebeautifulthingaboutbeinganartist,isyoucantake
risksandtakechancesandhopefullybesecureenoughtojustkeep
goingwithitifyoufallflatonyourface.
MCKINNEY:Ithinkthere'sbeenalotwhenyouthinkabout
brandcollaborationandmusic,andyoulookatlikeImean,Frank
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SinatraIthinkhadanalbumwithaTWAplaneorsomes***onthe
cover.Youknow,youthinkaboutMichaelJacksonburninghishead
foraPepsiad.Imean,there'salwaysbeenthat.Ifeellikeit's
interestingbecause
KELLEY:TheStonesdidacerealcommercial.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,Imean,thisisbeenthereforalongtime,andI
thinkthattheartistsIthink,eventheMaryJ.Bligecommercial,I
thinkifshewasn'tlike,"Didsomeonesaychicken?"orwhatevershe
saidatthebeginning,whereIfeellikethatwasamomentwhere
peoplewerelike,"Eee."Like,that'salittlebitwhatever.ButIfeel
like,similartoDrakeIfeellikeDrake,youknow,takesthepissout
ofhimselfanditreallyaddssomehumantypeofthingtoit.SoIfeel
likesomeofthestuffwhichalsogoingbacktothisHamburger
Helperthingnotlike,"Oh,thisisajoke,"but,"Yeah,itis.It'sa
joke."AndI'mconfidentenoughasanartistto,youknow,havefun
withitandnotbeheldtothefirethatthisismywholeartistry.
IdigwhatRadioheadandallthesepeoplethatarecompletelyanti
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corporatewhateverbutIfeellikealso,too,there'sathingwhereI
thinkit'sreallyempoweringtotheartistbecausebeforeweusedto
onlyhaverecordlabels.Ifyouhadarecorddeal,thatwastheonly
wayyouweregettingmoney.Ifeellikenow,there'sSamsungor
AppleorSpriteorRedBull.Ifeellikethere'salotofopportunities
thatifthebrandscomearoundtoactually,Ifeellike,doingmore
musicinitiatives,andfiguringouthowtomayberespecttheartand
cultureandnothaveitjustbeaoneoffcheesypromograbfor
whateverlikewhatRedBullisdoingwhereIfeellikethey'vereally
gotbehindartistsandhavedonetheRedBullseminarsandallthat
stuff.Ifeellikethat'sreallycoolandit'sbeneficialforalotofthe
artistswithalotlesscommitmentthan,youknow,goingtorecord
labels.Evenindielabels,whichbythewayshoutouttotherecord
labelsbutthey'redoingthebrandpartnershipsallthetime.So
eventhoughyou'resignedtoSuperCoolRecordsU.S.A,theystill,
lotsoftimes,aredoingsomekindofcorporatesomethinginthe
back,anditeventuallywillshowupsomewhere.
Idofeellikeifyouknowwhatyou'redoingandyoudon'tplay
yourselfoutthat,youknow,itcanbeempoweringfortheartists.And
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alotofthemneedtoknow,havingthatdirectrelationshipIknow
Bobbydealingwithamajorcorporation'smarketingdepartmentisa
wholedifferentthing,andgettingthatkindofeducationofwhatitis,
itcanbebeneficial.ButIdofeellikeifit'sdonewrongoryoudo
somewacks***,yes,youwilldefinitelyhavesomeregrets.
KELLEY:SoIalsowantedtotalkaboutyoudon'tdointerviews.
MCKINNEY:Yeah.
KELLEY:AndI'dlovetoknowwhyyoudon'tdointerviewsand
thenifyousortof,howyoumightadviseyourguysinthatregard
also.
MCKINNEY:Well,yeah,Idon'tdointerviews.Youknow,it's
funnyIdon'tthinkanybodycaredtodoaninterviewwithme
between2002and2011whentheHouseofBalloonsdropped,and
whenthatdropped
KELLEY:That'ssomeb*******.Thisiswhatmakesmeveryangry
aboutmusicjournalismandrapwriters.It'slikeatleastdothe
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reporting.Youdon'thavetopublishit,butatleastgotalktopeople.
Readaf******linernoteonce.Asksomebody.I'mdone.
MCKINNEY:OK.That'soneofthereasonsthatIdon'tdo
interviews,causeIgetturntuprealquick,justlikethat.I'llbelike
butIgoalotfurther,Frannie.IhaveseriousTourette'swhenIstart
gettingupsetorpassionate.I'llbelike,"DidIsaythatoutloud?"
Well,Imean,yeah,so,butalotof'emdon't.AndalotofitImean,
obviously,too,duringthattimeitwasInternetjustsocialmedia
justtookover.Soalmosteverythingbecameclickbaitrightaway,
whichisanotherreasonbutI'lltalkaboutthatinasecond.Butthe
thingiswith,Ifeellikeforme,honestly,withinterviewsyouhaveto
trustthepersonthatyou'relisteningtoandtalkingto.
KELLEY:Yeah,youputyournameinsomebody'shands.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,andthat'saveryweirdonebecause,even
withoutwhichhashappenedbeforeit'snotevenaboutthem,it's
aboutotherpeople,youknow,thehigherups,thatwanttoturnthe
storyintosomethingallabout,youknow,TheWeeknd.Orturnthe
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storyallintosomethinglikeandit'snotverygoodjournalism.I
meanmychildren'smotherisabrilliantjournalistandsoI'vebeen
privytosomeofthatandhadaneducationfromheronthis.Andshe
workshardatwell,nowshe'saproducerbutwhenshewas
doingthejournalismthingsheworkedreallyhardandwasvery
thoroughandmakingsureshegotagreatstoryandnotsomething
thatwasjustbasiccheesejusttogettheheadline.Andalso,too,I
lovetalkin's***so,youknow,moretimesthannotI'madoan
interviewandbelike,likeIsaid,"Ican'tbelieveIjustsaidthat."
KELLEY:Regrets.Everywhere.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,andthenanyradiointerview,Ihavetoput
somebassinthevoicejustsoIcanactuallylistentoit.ButIfeellike,
whichisdifferentgoingbacktotheartiststhatIworkwithsorry,
goingbacktolikewhenTheWeekndalbumdropped,hewasn'tdoing
interviews,soitwouldhavelookedhellastupidformetostartdoing
interviews,youknow,talkingabouthim,andIactuallythoughtthat
wassupercool.Ifeltlikeitactuallycreatedmoremystiquewhen
everybodywasquicktotellyouwhattheyatethatmorning.Ifeellike
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that'stakingsomeofthemagicoutofthebusiness.
KELLEY:Well,thenwhathappened?Didn'thedooneandhefelt
screwed?Thenhewaslike,"I'mdone."
MCKINNEY:Idon'tknowifthatwasit.Ithinkhejustdidn'twant
todointerviews.IthinkhewassmartinthatIthinkhethoughtit
wascooltonotdointerviews,butIthinkhewasalso,like,he'stoo
coolforinterviews,whichisawesome.Youknow,likebeinganartist
andbeinglike,"Yo,whyamIeventalkingtothepressrightnow?"I
feellikethere'snotenoughofthat.
KELLEY:That'sthebestquestion.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,right?So,Ifeellikethere's,youknow,unless
youreallyhavesomethingtosayorthere'sarealpurposeforit
right?It'sreallyjustanarcissisticthingwhereyoujust,Iguessthe
intentionisjusttolikebringmoreshineonyourself.Sounlessit's
actuallywithapurpose,yougotarecordcomin'in,orIdon'tknow.
Somethinglikethat.Butit'slikesamethingIgoonTwitteror
Instagram,andit'spostings***fornoreason.There'sanarcissismto
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itthat'sjustlike,Ifeellikethesameiskindofthepress.
FortunatelyfortheguysthatIworkwith,youknow,oneofthemis
reallygoodathandlingthepressandthentheothertworeallydon't
doanypress,andreallydon'thavereallyanyinterestindoingstuff.I
tellthemthesamethingas,like,bemindfulbecausetheywilltwist
yourwordsanditwillbecomeclickbait.
IwastellingyouearlierIdidaninterviewwithTheGuardian,and
theheadlinewas"SomethingSomethingTheWeeknd,"andit'sjust
like,ithadnothingtodoIwasactuallyjustshoweduptomeet
friendswhoweredoinganinterviewwithTheGuardian.Iwasn't
evensupposedtobethere.Andthenitturnedinto,basically,you
know,connectingthesepeopletoTheWeekndsomehow.I'mjust
likesittingthereandItoldthewriterlateron,"That'swhyIdon'tdo
interviews."Andhe'slike,"Oh,thatwastheeditor,blah,blah,blah."
AndI'mlike,"Yeah.Well,itwasacheapapplause."
IjustlistenedtoaRickRubininterviewandIwaslike,"Man,he
talksaboutsomuchcools***that'snotmusic."Youknow?So,Ifeel
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likeIdon'tknow.Andhedoesn'tdomanyinterviews.Andhehasa
lottosayalotof,like,knowledgetopassontopeople.SoIfeellike,
youknow,probablygoodforthisonethisyearandmaybeanother
onewithyouguysnextyear,andwe'llhavemoretotalkabout.
MUHAMMAD:Well,ifit'sgoingtobenextyear,we'llprobably
haveanewpresidentatthatpoint,right?
MCKINNEY:Yeah.
KELLEY:OhJesus.
MUHAMMAD:Yeah,I'mgoingthere.Nah,I'mnotgonnatakeDoc
intotheworldofpolitics.
MCKINNEY:Comeon!Let'sgo!What?Let'sgointopolitics.Come
on,youalreadyknow.But,youknow,IliveinCanada.
KELLEY:Andyourprimeministerislike,what?Superfineand
knowshowtodopushupsandquantumcomputingatthesametime
orsomething?
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MCKINNEY:Yeah,JustinTrudeau,Imean,he'sagoodlooking
chapIwouldguess,ifalotofwomenthinkhe'sagoodlookingchap,
youknow.Ijustfeellikethere'sjust,wehavenumerouspartiessoI
justfeellikethere'smorecompetition.Andhowelectionsarerunand
thefactthatyoucancallanelectionwhensomebody'sbeing
extremelywack.Youknow,Ithinkthat'samazing.
MP
M: ' v F '
KELLEY:IreallyappreciatedwhenOGMacowastalkingaboutit.
It'slikewhycaneverybodyelserecallpeopleandwejust,like,don't?
MUHAMMAD:Yeah.You'renotdoingagoodjob.Next.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,exactly.Butalotofthis,Imean,Ithinkthe
corporateinterestisjustsoheavyinthegovernment.Ijustfeellike
that'swhatwe'rereallytalkingabouthere.It'snot
KELLEY:Well,andlowkey,that'swhatIwastalkingaboutwhenI
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wasaskingaboutbrandsandregretsisthesesoyougetsome
money.DrakegetstheNikemoneyorI'msorry,the
MCKINNEY:Applemoney.
KELLEY:Applemoney.Doesn'thegetNikemoney,too?
MCKINNEY:Yeah,hegetsNikeDrakegetsallthemoney.
KELLEY:Yeah,soDrakegetsallthismoney,buthegivesthem
hedoesgivetheminfluenceandstatureandreach,andwhatdo
theydowiththat?Youknow,theydon'tmakeourlivesbetter.They
don'tmakeanybody'slifebetter.Theytakeourmoney.
MUHAMMAD:Well
MCKINNEY:Idon'tknow.YouseenthenewJordans?
KELLEY:I'mnotasneakergirl.
MCKINNEY:HaveyouseentheoldJordans?
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KELLEY:Yeah.
MCKINNEY:OK.
KELLEY:Isthatverymeaningfulforacertainsegmentofour
listeners?
MUHAMMAD:No,IthinkthepointthatIwasgoingtomakeis,I
mean,whenyoulookatitfromthatperspective,allofthisis
b*******.
KELLEY:Yeah,exactly.
MUHAMMAD:Butyouknow,therearesomepeoplewhotakethe
assetstheyreceivedindoingthesedealsanddogreatthingswith
them.Youknow,somepeopledon't.Andtosaythatsomeoneshould
beheldtoahighercaliberbecauseoftheirpositioninlifeoras
comingfromaplacewhereothersbeforethemhavepavedthewayto
allowthemtobeatthatpointandhaveaforumandaplatformtoget
richof?Imean,wecanscrutinizeartists,specifically,basedoffof
theirdecisions,butmepersonally,theyhavenopower.Youknow
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whatImean?Thepoweriswiththepeople,trulyinthepersonin
theindividualandsoit'snotnecessarilyforanyonetohaveany
regrets.It'smelivingasanindividualcitizendoIhaveregretsonmy
choices,ofwhichhasnothingtodowithmusic?
KELLEY:Yeah,Iunderstandthat.
MUHAMMAD:Imeanthat'sjustmyindividualtakeonit.
KELLEY:Sotakesomeresponsibility,basically?
MUHAMMAD:Yeah,ImeancauseI'mgivingyouwhateveritis,
$10foryourrecord.Like,thatrelationshipreallyendsthere.Ihave
no
KELLEY:There'snocausalrelationshipbetweenlyricsandpeople's
actions.
MUHAMMAD:Yeah,formepersonally.Andthat'sjustbecause
KELLEY:No,that'sproven.
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MUHAMMAD:Well,yeah.I'mgonnaleadmyself,really.
KELLEY:Yeah.
MUHAMMAD:Lookingforaleaderbecauseyoustandonstage,
command50,000people?Like,I'mgoodonthat.Idon'tevenlike
standingonstageinfrontof50,000people.Hatethatposition,just
becauseofwhatcanhappenthemomentyoudosomethingorsay
something.Andifyou'renotsayinganythingthatreallycanunite
mankind,thenlike,youf******up,inmyopinion.Youknow,soI
don'tknow.Corporationsalwaysarecontrollingthings,andwehave
theabilityeverydaytodosomethingaboutthat.Everyday.
MCKINNEY:ImeanIdefinitelyfeelcorporationsarepsychopathic
bynature.Right?That'swhattheyare.Theyhavenofeelings.They
docrazythings.So,youknow,ifyou'veeverbeenfriendswitha
psychopath,youknowyoujustgottokindofkeepyourdistance.You
havelunchesoutinpublic,youknow.Stufflikethat.Yougottakeep
itrealcool.Youcan'tbelike,"Hey,let'sjustwalkdownthisback
alleytogetherafteryou'vebeentweakedoutoffofcocaine."ButI'm
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notasafraidofcorporationsIthinkasIoncewas.
Ithinkalotof'emaresuperdependentonus,andIfeellikethe
morebusinesssavvyImeanshoutouttoJayZandsomeofthese
otherpeoplethathavereally,youknow,goneinonthecorporate
thing.IthinkthathasbeenreallyinspiringtoIthinkalotofyoung
kids,specificallyblackkidsthathavebeenlike,"Cool,Icanactually
haveconversationswithcorporations.It'snotweird.It'snot
whatever."Ratherthanleavingittoyourattorneyortheguythatcan
talklikethem,orwhateverelse,andhavingmoreconfidenceinthat
youreallyhavesomethingthattheywant,andaslongasyouconduct
yourselfsomewhatrespectfullyandIthinkhavealikesomekind
ofbusinesssavvywhichIthinkalotofkidsdobutattimesjust
are,youknow,livewireswiththeirnegotiationsandtheir
expectationsareunreasonablebutIdofeellikesomeofitisgood,
andIfeellikewehaveanopportunitytoutilizesomeofthese
relationshipsandsomeoftheirmoneyforgoods***.
MUHAMMAD:Word.CanIchangethesubjectalittlebit?
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KELLEY:Yeah.
MUHAMMAD:HowyouletDrakebeliketheonetoreallyput
Torontoonthemap,man?Like,sorry.
KELLEY:Thisisthebestinterviewever.
MUHAMMAD:Justsayin'.Causeyoumakeasequallya
groundbreakingmayorrepresentativeofthecityofToronto.Imean,
like,youhadChaosintheranks.Imeanyoumakesomerealspecial
material.What'sgoingon?I'msuredoorsareknockingdown,or
peopletryin'toknockdownthedoorstogetonyourradartohelp
givethemsomelifefromToronto.What'shappeninginToronto?It's
alwaysbeenfullofcreativepeople.What'sgoingonnow?
MCKINNEY:Imeanthere'ssomuch.Ihavetosay,youknow,I
thinkwhatDrakewasabletodowas,atonetime,seemed
impossible.YouknoweventhoughTorontohasalonghistoryofhip
hopyouknow,MichieMee,MaestroFreshWes.Imeanthefirst
timeIsawMichieMeewasinWordUpmagazineinSt.Paul,Minn.I
waslike,"Damn.Sheisbad."Ihadn'tevenheardthemusic.Like,
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she'samazing.AndthenaftertalkingtoMonieLovemanyyears
later,talkingabouthowthoroughMichiewas,andthenIthink
thiswasabout10yearsagohercomingbymyhousetoworkon
something.Wedidsomethingforthistelevisionshowandshecame
bytwodaysinarowwithChuckD.
Imean,PublicEnemy'sIdon'tknow,IwouldhavetosayTop5,
definitelyTop10,Top5formeofanygenreofmusic.Extremely
influential.Whattheywereabletodowas,Imeantheyhadasong
thatsays,"Farrakhan'saprophetandIthinkyououghttolistento
whathecansaytoyou,"right?WithAnthraxinthebackground,with
aseaofwhitekidssingingtheselyrics.Like,Idon'tknowifthat's
everbeendonesince.Thatwas,tome,incredible.Whateveryou
thinkaboutFarrakhanorTheNationofIslam,that'sonyoubutfor
himtoputthatoutthereandthendoaremixwithamassivemetal
group,andthenitbeingsungtoastadiumofpredominatelywhite
kids.Yeah.Topman,thatmaybeTop5nowIthinkaboutit.That
wasarealmomentforme.
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YouTube
Butanyways,soit'salwayshadalonghistoryinTorontoandwhenI
firstmetMichie,Iwaslike,"Wow.Thisisincredible."Soit'salways
beenthereIjustfeellikewhat'sinterestingistheyhadtofindtheir
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thingandkindofcarveouttheirownthingandIfeellikejust
because90%ofCanadaiswithinanhouroftheU.S.,there'salotof
tryingtosoundlikepeople.IwasinTorontowheneverybodywas
tryingtobeMobbDeep,youknow,andyougo,"They'renottryingto
heartheCanadianMobbDeep."Asgoodassomeofitwas,it
definitelyneededtobesomethingthatwasclearlyCanadianwhichI
feellikeDrakewasabletodoandstillcontinuestomakeeventhe
Torontospecificlingo,like,global.It'scrazythatthewaymykids
talkissettingthetempoforeverybodyelsearoundtheworld.
"Whosemansisthis?Awastemanstill."
Tomeit'sbaffling.Irememberatimewhereeverybodywasafraidto
soundlikethey'refromToronto.So,yeah,there'satonoftalentand
obviously,youknow,noweverybodyhitsmeuplikewell,itwent
fromeverybodyhittingmeup,like,"Who'snewhere?"topeople
fromacrosstheglobetellingmewho'snewinToronto.Right?Imean
it'sdefinitelyahugetimeinCanadaandToronto,specifically.
There'stonsofnewmusic.Imean,Icouldlistabunchofartists,but
Idon'twanttomissanybody.
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KELLEY:DoyouhaveanyJimmyJamandTerryLewisstories?
MCKINNEY:Absolutely.Didyouknowthis?
KELLEY:Whatdoyoumean?
MCKINNEY:AboutmyJimmyJamandTerryLewisstory?
KELLEY:No,Ididn'tknow.That'swhyI'masking.
MCKINNEY:Oh,that'swhyI'minToronto,becauseofthem.Shout
outtoJimmyandTerry.Yeah,IwentoutfriendsofminefromMint
ConditiongotmeaninterviewwiththemtobeanassistanttoSteve
Hodge,whoistheirengineeratFlyteTyme,and,man,Ididn'tgetthe
gig.Itwasalso,too,theguywhoIinterviewedwith,hehadthis
spiralscreensaversolikehowAli'ssittingtherewiththecomputer
behindhimitwasaspiralscreensaver.AndIcouldn'tstop
frowning.NottomentionIwenttothemall
KELLEY:Causeyouwere,like,unhappywiththescreensaver?
MCKINNEY:Iwouldanswerhappyandfrown.Itwouldbelike,
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"Oh,I'mjustexcitedtobehere."AndthentheotherthingImean,
comeon.Let'sbereal,thewholereasonIwantedthejobisjusttobe
nexttoJanetJackson.SoIprobablyutteredJanet'snamelikea
maniaclike40times,andthencametherealquestions:"So,whatdo
youwanttodo,youknow,inthenextthreetofiveyears?""Iwantto
beaproducer."Well,IwasgoingoutforajobbeinganAssistant
Engineer,so,obviouslytheywantyoutobeHeadEngineeratsome
pointnottheirjob.So,IwasbasicallytoldatthetimethatIdidn't
havethejob.
Ihadboughtasuitthiscornysuit.Hadmywavesalltogether.I
was,like,IwassoreadytobeinFlyteTyme.Andtheywerelike,
"Basically,youdon'thavethegigcausewewantsomebodywhojust
wantstobeanengineer."AndIwascrushedlike,crushed.Butat
thattime,theywerelike,"Yo,whatareyougoingtodo?"Iwaslike,
"I'mprobablygonnamovetoToronto."BecauseIhadbeento
Torontoayearpriortothatandwaslike,"I'vedoneeverythingin
MinneapolisIcandooutsideof,Ithink,joinPrince'sbandorwork
forJimmyandTerry."Soasfatewouldhaveit,nottoolongafterthat
IpackedupmythingsandmovedtoToronto.
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KELLEY:Wow.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,butifIwouldhavestayedthere,youknow,it
wouldhavebeenhorrible.Iwouldhavejustbeeninthecorner
lookingatJanetallweird.Iprobablywouldhavegotfiredinliketwo
weeksanyways,sotheywereprettysmartforthat.
KELLEY:Whatifshecalledyoutoday?
MCKINNEY:Imean,comeon.Whatareyoutalkingabout?
KELLEY:I'mjustsayingIknowthatyouwouldtakethejob.I'm
saying,doyouthinkyoucouldcomposeyourself?
MCKINNEY:Imean,yeah.IthinkIcankeepittogethernow.I
mean,I'magrownman.Ihavelikeyouknow.Butyeah,Janet
JacksonImean,truthfully,Janetandtherecordsthatshemade
withJimmyandTerrywereinsanelyinfluentialforme.Iputherup
thererightnexttoMichaelforme.Likebecausetherecords,Imean,
"RhythmNation."Evenwhatshewastalkingaboutlyricallyonthat
recordlikecrazy!Thatrecordwasinsane.Andobviouslyforme,like
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"PleasurePrinciple,"thatwasthefirsttimeIwaslikeImean.OK.
I'vebeenlovingJanetJacksonsincePenny.SoImean,it'sbeena
longtimeI'vebeenlovingJanetJackson.Soyeah,absolutely.
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YouTube
KELLEY:MytheoryisthatthatBeyoncealbum,selftitled,isreally
justatrackbytrackremakeofControl.
MCKINNEY:Really?
KELLEY:Yeah,Icouldgointoit.
MCKINNEY:Wow.That'scool.It'snot.Imean,letmenotget
startedonJanet.Janetletmejusttalktoyourealquick,Janet.I'm
outhereinL.A.foracouplemonths.Hollaatme.Wecantakeit
backtakeitbackto"PleasurePrinciple."Anyways.
MUHAMMAD:CouldyoutellusyourDillastory?Ilovethisstory.
MCKINNEY:Oh,man.MyDillastorywasoneofthosestories.I
wenttohishouseTorontoisrightbyDetroitobviouslysoIwas
luckyenoughtogetinvitedtogooutthere.AndIwasthereandhe
playedhe'slike,"Comeon."Youknow,"Comeondownstairs."He
hada,firstofall,basementfullofrecordswithaRhodesinthe
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middleofthefloor,andactuallyIwaswithmydudeGEOLOGY.
ShoutouttoGEOLOGY.Sowewentoutthereandhewaslike,you
know,hadthisRhodesinthemiddleofthethingwiththeADATs
andjusttheMPCsandIwaslikealreadyafan,youknow,and
broughtmynewsongsthatIwasworkingon.Youknow,selected
perfectlyyouknow,myhottests***.Right?Thebigtunes.Youknow
whatI'mtalkingabout,Ali.
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Sowegooutthere.Cool.Dilla'sthere.He'slike,"Yo,letmejustplay
youmyalbumthatIjustfinished,"andproceedstoplayWelcome2
Detroit.Now,Itellpeoplethisislike,fromthebeginningofthe
record,you'relike,"OK."Itwaslike,"Eh,Idon'tknowifI
definitelydon'thaveanythinghotterthanthatjoint."Andthenby
threesongsin,mydemoCDwasbasicallyinmysock.Ihadpushed
thats***sofardownitwaslike,yeah.He'slike,"Youwanttoplay
somestuff?"Iwaslike,"Absolutelynot."I'mlike,"There'snoneed
forthat."I'msupercompetitive,too,soI'mlike,"Yeah.Idefinitely
lost."
Fortunatelyhehadalreadyheardcomeofmymusic,soitwasn'tmy
onlytimetoplayhimmusic,but,yeah,Iwasjustabsolutelyblown
away.Andhe'ssuchasweetsoul.Like,verycoolFranknDank.
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ShoutouttoFranknDank,theywerepayingpool.AndfirsttimeI
metthoseguysandyouknowsuperawesome.IreallywishIhada
chancetoworkwithhimbeforehepassed,butyouknow,definitely
continuestoinspireme.
KELLEY:Welcome2Detroitis'01.
MCKINNEY:'01.Yup.Soithadtobeacoupleyearsbeforethat.
Yeah,thatreallythrewmeoff.Iwaslike,youknow,onapath,andI
thinkthewholecitywaslike,youknoweveryproducerwaslike,
"YouarenotdopeuntilyouhadyourthingswinginglikeDilla."So,
andconsideringhedidn'tquantize,thatwasverydifficulttorecreate,
whichiswhyyoushoulddefinitelydoyourownthing.Butyeah.
Superinspiring,andimmediatelyraisedthebarliketenfold.
KELLEY:WasVoodoo'01also?
MUHAMMAD:No,Voodoowas2000.
KELLEY:2000.OK.Ithinkofthem,like,aroundthesametime.
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MCKINNEY:Yeah.Veryclose.
KELLEY:Isthereanythingelseyou'vealwayswantedtoaskDocon
therecord?
MUHAMMAD:Ha!Ontherecord!Thefirstquestionthatcameto
mymindwasortwoone:how'dyouhookupwithYoungBuck?
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YouTube
MCKINNEY:ThehomieDProsper.
MUHAMMAD:DProsper.Whatup,DProsper.
MCKINNEY:Whatup,DProsper.Thelegend.Thegenius.Yeah,D
Prosper,who'sheadofA&RforGUnitwithShah,usedtocometo
Imeanheusedtobeateverysession.Youknow,DProsperwouldbe
therehustlingbeatsandconnectingpeopleandeverythingfroma
longtime.SoImethimrightafterIdidRes'album.Sorry,during
makingRes'album,andwejustalwayswerecoolandhebecamethe
A&RforGUnit.Hewas,"Yo,man.Sendmesomebeats."AndI
neversendbeats,butIwaslike,youknow,Isent'em.Senthimsome
beatsandhewaslike,"Yo,YoungThug'stakingthisone."Itwasa
songcalled"SlowYourRoll"on
KELLEY:YoungThugorYoungBuck?
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MCKINNEY:I'msorry.Yeah,YoungBuck.
KELLEY:Dreamingagain?
MCKINNEY:Yeah,sorry.I'mlike,"YoungThugtookoneofmy
tracks!"Butyeah,sorryOnBucktheWorld.Anditwascoolcause
helike,youknow,IfeellikesamethingasontheDrakerecordthatI
didI'mluckyenoughthatwhenMCstakejointstheyusuallyspitthe
real.Imean,soIwasreallyhappycausethelyricsthathedroppedon
itwerejustveryhonest,youknow.I'mnotwithallthefoolishness.I
likereallyricists,evenit'sjustontheonejointIdowiththem.
MUHAMMAD:Moreontherecordquestionsthisisachallenge
forme.
KELLEY:Whatpart?
MUHAMMAD:Whatpart?Interviewingoneofyourbestfriendsis
plusme:Igotothegravewiththestuff,incaseyoudon'tknow.
KELLEY:Iknow.
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MUHAMMAD:So,justsaying.
KELLEY:Nobodyhaseverswornmetosecrecyquiteasoftenas
you.
MUHAMMAD:Yeah.Ido.NowthatIthinkaboutit
MCKINNEY:I'mgladI'mnottheonlyone.Iwaslike,"IknowI
talkalot,butdamn."
MUHAMMAD:Well,oneishowcomeyoudon'tworkwithmore
MCs?ButIalsoknowthatyoudon'tdobeats,andalotofpeoplelike
tosendinbeattapesandstufflikethatwhichIdon'teithercause,
Idon'tknow.Ijusthateit.So,Idon'tknowwhatelsetoaskyou,
man.
KELLEY:Doyourkidseverputyouontoanybody?Doyoulike
yourkids'tasteinmusic?
MCKINNEY:Yeah,Imean,Ithinkmykidshavereallygoodtaste
inmusic.Ithinkmyson'sfavoriteartistis,bynote,isKendrick.You
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know,theybothreallylikeDrake,whichiscool.Yeah,theyputme
ontodifferentstuff.Alotofit'sreallyweird.Imean,mykidsare
superaware.TheyconfusemesometimesbecauseIfeellikealotof
kidsnow,theydon'tjustwithmusicthey'renotreallylike
theyknowalotofthestuffthattheylistentoisfoolish.Idon't
remembereverbeinglike,"Yeah,Iknowthisartistiscorny,orsucks,
butIlistentothem."Youknow?
Ifeelliketheydefinitelyareuponalotofstuffandforme,it'sgreat
becausethey'reconstantlylike,"Yo,like"mystudioisinmyhouse
sothey'llbelike,"Yo.Thatone'shot."Youknow,or,"Thatone'slit."
Oryouknow,whatever.ItvalidatessomeofthethingsthatIlike.It
getsalittlebitweirdbecause,youknow,whenyou'relisteningtothe
samemusicasyourkids,it'scool,butwedon'tlistentoThug
together.Ever.Wedon'tlistentoThugtogether.We'lllistento
KendrickandDrakeandstufflikethat,butsomeofthemoreextra
stuff,theyhavetolistentoontheirown.
MUHAMMAD:Idon'tknow.Ipicturethemhavingmoreofa
maturepalatethanyou,causeIdon'tknow.Likejusttheotherday
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youwereplayingawholebunchofstuffI'veneverheardof.Iwas
like,"Man,I'msooutofitrightnow.Docisconnected."Like,what
wastheonethingyouplayedme?Oh,itwasthenew2Chainzsong.
Wasit2Chainz?
MCKINNEY:Oh,yeah.Yes.2Chainz.
MUHAMMAD:"Youmad,"cause,nah
MCKINNEY:Yeah.
MUHAMMAD:Whatisit?Whatisit?
KELLEY:"Yougettin'mad.I'mgettin'rich."
MCKINNEY:That'shilarious.
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KELLEY:Ali,yousecretlylovethatsongcauseyoubringitupall
thetime.
MUHAMMAD:IbringitupbecauseDocintroducesmetostuff
thatI'mjustlike
MCKINNEY:Well,it'sfunny
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MUHAMMAD:he'sjustsoconnected,evenmoresothanmy
youngnephew.Mynephewislike,Rakim,youknow,likewith
stuffwelovebutit'sjust,Ilooktomynephewtobelike,"Yo,tellme
whatthenewyoung"andhe'sjustnotinterestedincertainthings,
butthenI'lltalktoDocandDocknowsallofit.
MCKINNEY:Yeah,well,thiscomesfromsleepingonthefloorat
thestudioinMinneapoliswiththeguys.Ifeellikethere'sonething
tohearitandthere'sanotherthingtoactuallyreallysharethe
experiencewiththesekids.Listeningtoit,definitelyIdon'tthink
withoutBobbybeingandCorbinbeingsointoYoungThug,and
beinglike,"Yo,thisisgenius."Andseeinghowtheygetexcitedand
highlightingthegreatpartsofhiscatalogorthegreatpartsofthe
song.It'salot.It'sdefinitely,Ifeellike,makesgettingitandbeing
passionateaboutitaloteasier.
AlotofthegreatmusicthatI'velovedmywholelife,it'slike,Idon't
knowifIlikethatmuchatfirst.SousuallyI'mnotreallylikeit
takesmetolistentothingsacoupletimes,and,youknow,reallyget
intoittoreallysometimesconnectwithwhatIfeellikeisground
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breakingmusicorreallygreatsongs.
MUHAMMAD:Speakingofsleepingoncouches,I'veheardyou
makeastatement,andIthinkyouhavesortofaphilosophythat's
behindthatstatement,ofsleepingoncouches,asitpertainstohow
farone'swillingtogofortheirartistry.YouknowwhatI'mtalking
about?
MCKINNEY:Absolutely.
MUHAMMAD:Couldyousharethat?
MUHAMMAD:Well,Imean,Ifeellike,Idon'tknow.Ithinkevery
artistthatI'veworkedwith,definitelyanyartistthatI'vedonemore
thanfourorfivesongstogetherhasseenmesleeponfloors.That's,
one,basedoffoflike,youknow,IthinkI'mworkingsmarternow,
butevenuptillamonthandahalfagoIwasliterallysleptonthe
floorattheguys'studioinMinneapolis.AndIjustfeellikethere's,
one,workingtillyouliterallydropandbeingsogeekedthatyoudon't
wanttogohome.Youjustwanttogetupandgetbacktoit.
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AndIthinkit'salsojuststayingyoung.I'mstillthatpassionateabout
it,andIthinkalotofartistshavetoseethat.Youknow,you'reinthis
gamelongenough,it'seasytogetcomfortableandhavetobetreated
likethisorthat,when,ifthemusicisgreatandyoureallybelievein
it,discomfortmeansnothing.SoIfeellikethat'swithalotofthings
inlife.Ifeellikeactionsspeaklouderthanwords.Andsoforme,
one,I'mnotbotheredbyit.I'mnotafraidofdiscomfortaslongasit's
basedonmypassion.AndI'mgood.Ifeellikeforsomeoftheartists
Iworkwith,itspeaksvolumesto'em.Otherartists,they'relike,
"Doc'sjustsleepingonthefloor."
KELLEY:Docjustlikesfloors.
MCKINNEY:Doc'sjustoldandthattired.
MUHAMMAD:Idon'thaveanymorequestions.
KELLEY:No.Imean,I'mveryhappy.Thisisgonnabeawesome.Is
thereanythingelseyouwanttotalkabout?
MCKINNEY:Letmesee.No,Ithink,I'mjustsohonoredtobehere
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andIwaslikeoverlygeekedwhenAliaskedme.Soyeah,Imean
obviouslyabigfanoftheshow.Ifeellikeyouguysarethenew
Oprah.
KELLEY:Ahs***,wedidn'tmakehimcry.
MCKINNEY:What?No?I'mcryingontheinside.
KELLEY:Iwasabouttogoin.
MCKINNEY:I'mcryingontheinside.Icreatedthisemos***so
youknow,I'mmadeupoftears.
KELLEY:"Imade'TheRide.'IcancrywheneverIwant."
MCKINNEY:But,yeah,thanksforhavingme,youguys.
KELLEY:Thanks.
MUHAMMAD:Thanksforcomingbro.
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