Gaggero Debtor Exam

ORIGINAL
SUPERIORCOURTOFTHESTATEOFCALIFORNIA
FORTHECOUNTYOFLOSANGELES
STEPHENM.GAGGERO,alsoknownSTEPHENM.BLANCHARD,
Plaintiff,
STEVENSCHLEIN,JOHNSTEIN,VENICENORTHBEACHCOALITION,TUCK
MULLIGAN,
Defendants.
No.BC109521
DEBTORSEXAMINATIONOFSTEPHENGAGGERO,
theplaintiffherein,takenbythedefendants,at111NorthHill
Street,LosAngeles,California,at9:41a,m.,
Wednesday,J4ne20,2001,before
PamelaJ.Fugate,CSR11775,RPR.
HutchingsNumber0110517NO
HUTCHINGS
COURT REPORTERS, LLC
CR 649
GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES

HEADQUARTERS:
5701 So. EASTERN AVENUE, SUrE 530

Los ANGELES, CALIFORNIA 90040-2831
800697.3210 323.888.6300
EMC 323.888.6333 www.hutchings.com
as
vs
1APPEARANCESOFCOUNSEL:
2ForPlaintiff:
3KNAPP,PETERSEN&CLARKE
4BYSTEPHENM.HARRIS
5500NorthBrandBoulevard,20thFloor
6Glendale,California912031904
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8ForDefendants:
9GELFAND&STEINLLP
10BYCRAIGJ.STEIN
1111755WilshireBoulevard,Suite1230
12LosAngeles,California90025
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HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
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1INDEX
2WITNESS:STEPHENGAGGERO
3EXAMINATIONBY:PAGE
4Mr.Stein4
5
6
7EXHIBITS
8DEFENSEDESCRIPTIONIDENTIFIEDMARKED
91Subpenaducestecum25167
102GrantDeed104167
113JacksonFederalBank128167
statement
12
4GenovaHoldingsLLC128167
13CertificateofMembership
145ProtectiveOrder166167
15
16Questionsthewitnessrefusestoanswerorthataremarkedatrequest
ofcounselareindicatedinthetranscriptwith
17aplus(+)signandarelocatedonthefollowingpagesandlines:12
10,1324,1613,1822,229,2418,3516,
18406,4324,4722,4919,741,8524,919,9114,9210,
1369,1381,1447,1452,15413,15418,15521,
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1STEPHENGAGGERO,
2theplaintiffherein,havingbeensworn,testifiesas
3fo1low:
4
5EXAMINATION
6
7BYMR.STEIN:
SQ. Canyoustateandspellyourname,please.
9A.Yes.MynameisSteveGaggero,GAGGERO.
10Q. Areyouknownbyanyothernames?
11A.No.ThatstheonlynameImknownby.
12Q. Haveyouusedanyothernamesinthelastten
13years?
14A.Yes.Yes.
15Beforewegoanyfurther,theresagentleman
16sittingbehindyou.IbelievehisnameisStevenSchlein.
17Q. Yes.
18A.Itsmyunderstandingthroughhistestimonyin
19frontofaJudgeBerrerathathenolongerhasaninterest
20inthecasefinancially,thatheisnolongeracreditor,
21that,infact,heassignedhisinteresttoaMarkGoldwitz.
22AndsowhatIdlikeistoknowfromMr.SchJ.ein,
23whoissittingnexttothecourtreporter,if,infact,he
24hasafinancialinterestinthiscase,ifheisactuallya
25creditor,andhowmuchthatfinancialinterestis.Id
4
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Ilikehimtostatethatontherecord,please,beforewego
2anyfurther;otherwise,Illhavetowriteabunchof
3things.
4MR.HARRIS:Illconcurinmyclientsrequest.
SMR.STEIN:
6Q. Thenwriteallthenotesyoudlike.Hesnot
7underexamination.Hesundernoobligation.Hesa
8memberofthepublic.Hesabsolutelyentitledtobehere.
9Ifyoucaretowrite,thenwrite.
10A.Heis hesamemberofthepublic?
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11Q. Hesamemberofthepublic.
12A.Howmuchisheowed?
13Q. Itsnotyourexamination.
14A.BecausewhatIwant Idliketoknowhow
15much.
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16Q. Mr.Gaggero,haveyoubeenknownbyanyother
17namesinthelasttenyears?
18A.Idliketoknow
19MR.STEIN:Letstakeabreak.
20Letsgouptothejudge,Mr.Gaggero.
21(Interruptionintheproceedings.)
22MR.STEIN:Arewebackontherecord.
23MR.HARRIS:Iguessso.
24MR.STEIN:Okay.Lettherecordreflectthatwe
25hadanappearancebeforeCommissionerGoldinDepartment
5
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11A,whoissubstitutingforCommissionerGross.
2MR.HARRIS:CommissionerLevin.
3MR.STEIN:Excuseme,ArnoldLevin.
4Andinitially,Mr.Gaggerowasorderedtoanddid
5turnoveroneblackwristwatchwithaCasionameonit.
6Mr.Gaggerostatedthevalueofthiswristwatchwas
7approximately$35.
8A.Ithinkits50,actually.
9Q. Youstated35tothejudge.
10A.Ivereconsideredit.
11Shouldwegobackupandtalktothejudgeaboutit?
12Q. Wellsay50.
13A.Okay.$50.
14Q. $50value.
15Andhewasorderedtoturnover$25incash,and
16thatwillalsobecreditedtothejudgment,andthatisas
17ofthisdate,June20th,2001.
18Okay.ThecommissioneralsoStatedthatthe
19questionthatwasposedastothenamesChathehasbeen
20knownbyforthelasttenyearsisnotconfidential
21financialinformation,andhewasdirectedtoanswerit.
22And,further,thatMr.Schleinisentitledtoattend
23thisexaminationandnotbequestionedbyMr.Gaggeroor
24hiscounselatthistimebecauseitsnotpartofthis
25proceeding.
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1A.Healsoindicatedhesamemberofthepublic.
2Q. Hesalsoaparty.
3A.Thatsnotbeenestablishedyet.
4SoImgoingtowriteanswersratherthanspeakthem
5whenItestifyCosensitivefinancialinformationbecause
6itsmybeliefthatMr.Schleinisonlyamemberofthe
7publicbecauseheisnotajudgmentcreditor.
8Youfailedtotellthejudgethatyouwouldnot,nor
9wouldhe,divulgetheamountthatMr.Schleinclaimstobe
10owed,andIthinkthatisareasonablerequestfroma
11judgmentdebtor.
12MR.HARRIS:Thejudgealreadysaidhecouldjust
13writedowntheanswerstoconfidentialfinancial
14information.
15MR.STEIN:
16Q. Correct.Wedontdisputethat.Okay.
17Thenanyothernamesthatyouhaveusedforthelast
18tenyears?
19A.Theresoneotherthing.
20Ithinkthatordersaysithastobeattachedto
21thisdepositionorthiscreditorsexam,andweshould
22advisethecourtreporterthatthereisanorderon
23confidentialityaboutthistranscript,soyouwouldnotbe
24abletodisseminateitwithoutmyapprovalormycounsels
25approval.
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1And,further,thatIwillbehandingyouanswers
2periodicallythroughoutthisdeposition;you,thecourt
3reporter,thatIfeelaresensitivefinancialinformation
4sothatMr.Schleinorothermembersofthepublicdont
5hearmyanswer,andyoucanenteritintothetranscript.
6Thatswhythetranscriptisprotectedandconfidential.
7AndImstatingfortherecorduntilweareableto
8gettothebottomoftheinconsistenciesinMr.Goldwitzs
9andMr.SchleinspositioninfrontofJudgeBerrera,
10and asrecentlyaslastweek weregoingtoconsider
11Mr.Schleinamemberofthepublic.
12Andifyoudisseminateanyinformationtohim,
13Mr.Stein,wellholdyouresponsibleforthat.Okay?
14MR.STEIN:Dowhateveryouthinkisappropriate.
15MR.HARRIS:Andyougaveacopyoftheprotective
16ordertothecourtreporter?
17MR.STEIN:Thatwillbepartoftherecord.
18ItscalledOrderonMotionforContinuanceandfor
19ProtectiveOrder.Itwasfiledinthiscourton
20May23rd,2001.Itwassignedonthat onMay22nd,2001
21byCommissionerMurray,MURRAY,Gross,GROSs.
22THEWITNESS:Whatsthedatetoday?Idonthave
23mywatchanymore.
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24MR.HARRIS:620.
25MR.STEIN:
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1Q. Okay.MayIhavethenamesthatyouhaveused
2inthelasttenyears?
3A.StephenMichaelBlanchard,BLANCHAR.D,
4andStephenMichaelGaggero.
SQ. IsStephen,STEPHEN?
6A.Yes.
7Q. Whatisyourdateofbirth?
8A.October5th,1955.
9Q. Andwherewereyouborn?
10A.IwasborninCalifornia.
11Q. WhereinCalifornia?
12A.Idontremember.
13Q. IsitinSouthernCaliforniaorNorthern
14California?
15A.SouthernCalifornia.
16Q. Andwheredoyoupresentlyreside?
17A.Istayat938PalisadesBeachRoad,in
18SantaMonica.
19Q. Whenyousayyoustayatthataddress,what
20doesthatmean?
21A.ThatswhereIstay.
22Q. Areyouanownerofthatpropertyatthat
23address?
24A.No,Imnotanowner.
25Q. Areyouatenantofthepropertyatthat
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1address?
2A.No,Pmnotatenant.Imalicensee.
3Q. Youarealicensee?
4A.Thatscorrect.
5Q. Andwhatinyourdefinitionisalicensee?
6A.Imlicensedtolivethere.
7Q. Andbywhoareyoulicensedtolivethere?
8A.FredHarris.
9Q. AndwhoisFredHarris?
10A.Hestheowneroftheproperty,orhewas.
11Q. Ishepresentlyaliveordead?
12A.Hesdead.
13Q. Andhowlonghaveyoustayedatthisaddress,
14938PalisadesBeachRoad?
15A.Imnotsure.
16Q. Morethanayear?
17A.Yes.
18Q. Morethantwoyears?
19A.Ithinkso.
20Q. Morethanthreeyears?
21A.Idontthinkso.
22Q. Priorto938PalisadesBeachRoadin
23SantaMonica,California,wheredidyoulive?
24Andgivemefiveyears.
25A.Idontrememberexactly.Ithinkitwasa
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1placeinIndioIlivedat.
2Q. InIndio.
3DoyouhaveanaddressinIndio?
4A.No,Idont.
5Q. AndhowlongdidyouliveinIndio?
6A.Idontrememberexactly.Maybesixmonths.
7Q. AndbeforeyoulivedinIndio,wheredidyou
8reside?
9A.Ithinkat517OceanFrontWalk.
10Imaybeforgettingsomeplacesinbetweenthere.
11Q. Andthatiswhere?
12A.InVenice.
13Q. Andhowlongdidyouliveat517OceanFront
14Walk?
15A.Idontremember.
16Q. Canyouestimate?
17A.No.
18Q. Well,withinthelasttenyears,youlivedat
19thataddress?
20A.Yes.
21Q. Areyoupresentlyemployed?
22A.IdoworkforPacificCoastManagementand
23someothercompanies.
24Q. DoyouhaveanaddressforPacificCoast
25Management?
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1A.1437VictoriaAvenue.
2Q. Andthatiswhere?
3A.Ventura.
4Q. DoyouhavetheZIPcode?
SA.93003.
SSuite201.
7Q. AndwhatsortofbusinessisPacificCoast
8Management?
9A.Itsamanagementcompany.
10+ Q. Andwhatdotheymanage?
11A.Allkindsofthings.
12Q. Forinstance?
13A.LasttimeIwasinadebtorsexam,thejudge
14saidthatIdidnthavetodiscloseinformationabout
16companiesthatIdonothaveanownershipinterestin,and
16soIwouldthinkthatPacificCoastManagementwouldhavea
17righttoprotectiveorderagainstanyquestionspertaining
18totheirbusiness,
19Q. Theymaybe.
20MR.HARRIS:Weregoingtoformallyobjectonthe
21groundsitinvadestheprivacyrightsofconfidential
22informationofPacificCoastManagement.
23MR.STEIN:Areyouinstructinghimnottoanswer?
24MR.HARRIS:Yes.
26MR.STEINWewillbecontinuingthisexamination
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1foranotherdatebecausethejudgeisunavailabletoday,so
2whenwecompletethisportionofthetestimonytoday,well
3goandgetanewdateforMr.Gaggerotoreturn.
4AndIdlikethecourtreportertomarkthe
StranscriptwhereverMr.Gaggeroisinstructednotto
6answer.
7Q. Iwontaskthisquestionagain,butIpresume
8ifyourcounseladvisesyounottoansweraquestion,
9youregoingtofollowthatadvice?
10A.Thatscorrect.
11Q. Yousaidthatyoudosomeworkforsomeother
12companiesbesidesPacificCoastManagement;isthat
13correct?
14A.ThatswhatIsaid.
15Q. Canyouidentifythenamesotanyofthose
16companies?
17A.IdoworkforAvalonCorporation.
18Q. AnddoyouhaveanaddressforAvalon
19Corporation?
20A.TheyhaveaP.O.box.Theydonthavean
21office.
22Q. Andthepostofficeboxis?
23A.2960.Ventura93002,Ithink.
24+ Q. Doyouhappentohaveatelephonenumberfor
25PacificCoastManagement?
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1A.Ido.
2Q. Canyougivethatto,meplease?
3A.Ithinkthatwouldbeconfidentialinformation
4thatis
5MR.HARRIS:Onthatbasis,Imgoingtoobjectto
6thatquestionandinstructhimnottoanswer.
7MR.STEIN:Atelephonenumberthatispublicly
8availableisconfidential?
9MR.HARRIS:Youreassumingitspublicly
10available.
11MR.STEIN:Soonthebasisthatitsconfidential
12information,youreinstructinghimnottoanswer?
13MR.HARRIS:Confidentialinformationreflectedby
14rightofathirdpartywhoisnothere.
15Correct.Iminstructinghimnottoanswer.
16MR.STEIN:Anybasisforthatbesidestheclaim
17thatitsconfidential?
18MR.HARRIS:Well,italsocannotleadtothe
19discoveryofanyassets,Iwouldsay,ifitsnothis
20company.
21MR.STEIN;Iftheyowehimmoney,Imentitledto
22findoutaboutthat.
23MR.HARRIS:Youcanaskhim.
24MR.STEIN:Iwill.
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25Q. DoesPacificCoastManagementoweyouany
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1money?
2A.Idontknow.Idontthinkso.Imeanthey
3paymefromtimetotime,butIdontknow,asIsithere
4today,iftheyowememoney.
5Q. Whenwasthelasttimetheypaidyou?
6A.Imnotsurewhen.Withinthelastfewweeks.
7Q. Howdotheypayyou?Bycashorbycheck?
SA.Sometimesbycheck.
9Q. Okay.AvalonCorporation.Ivenotedon
10publicrecordsthatyouwerelistedasthepresidentof
11AvalonCorporation;isthatstillcorrect?
12A.Ithinkso.Imnotsure.IthinkIam.
13Q. Youthinkyouare?
14A.Uhhuh.
15Q. Doyouknowthenamesofanyotherofficersof
16AvalonCorporationbesidesyourselfasthepresident?
17A.Icantthinkofanyrightnow.
18Q. WhatsortofworkyoudoforAvalon
19Corporation?
20A.Notmuchanylonger.Ijustmaintain I
21reallydontdoanythinganylongerwithAvalon.
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22Q. AreyouastockholderofAvalonCorporation?
23A.No.
24Q. WereyoueverastockholderofAvalon
25Corporation?
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1A.Yes.
2Q.Andhowlongagowasitthatyouceasedbeing
3astockholderofAvalonCorporation?
4A.Somewhereinthemid90s.
5Q.Andwhatdidyoudowithyourstockatthe
6timethatyounolongerweretheownerofit?
7A.Idontrememberexactly.Imnotsure.
8Q.AreyouanownerofPacificCoastManagement?
9A.No.
10Q.WereyoueveranownerofPacificCoast
1].Management?
12A.No.
13+ Q.Canyougivemethenameofanyprincipalor
14principalsofPacificCoastManagement?
15A.No.
16Q.Isthatbecauseyoudontknow,oristhat
17becauseyouwontgivethemtome?
18A.Both.
19MR.STEIN:Areyouinstructinghimnottotellme
20thenameoftheprincipals?
21MR.HARRIS: Areyousayingyoudontknowthename
22oftheprincipals?
23THEWITNESS:Imnotsurewhathemeansby
24principals.
25WhatImthinkingisifIdoknow,Ithinkits
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1theirbusiness,notmine.
2MR.STEIN:
3Q. WhenIsayprincipal,Imeantheperson
4thatpersonorpersonsthatgiveyouassignmentforwork
5andthatyoureporttowhenyoudoworkforPacificCoast
6Management.
7Havingsaidthat,canyougivemethenamesofthose
8people?
9A.No.
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10Q. Isthatbecauseyoudontknow?
11A.No.
12Q. Youdoknow?
13A.Yes.
14Q. Butyouwontgivethemtome?
15A.Thatscorrect.
16MR.STEIN:Andyoureinstructinghimnottoanswer
17that?
18BYMR.HARRIS:Iminstructinghimnottoansweron
19thegroundsthatsconfidentialcommercialinformation,and
20theinformationinvadestherightofprivacyofathird
21partywhoisnotpresentatthisexaminationtoday.
22THEREPORTER:Imgoingtoneedyoutospeak
23louder.
24MR.HARRIS:Sure.Icantalkalotlouder,so
25dontworry.
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1MR.STEIN;
2Q. IsthereanyotherbusinessbesidesPacific
3CoastManagementorAvalonCorporationforwhomyoudo
4work?
5A.Fromtimetotime,butIcantthinkofanyas
6Isitheretoday.
7Q. Whenwasthelasttimethatyoudidworkfor
8anyoftheseotherentities?
9A.Idontrememberany.
10Q. Howdidyougetheretoday,Mr.Gaggero?
11A.Idrove.
12Q. Whatdidyoudrive?
13A.AToyota.
14Q. WhatyearistheToyota?
15A.Imnotsure.
16Q. WhattypeofToyotaisit?
17A.ItsaLandCruiser.
18Q. AndwhoistheownerofToyotaLandCruiser?
19A.Notme.
20Q. Areyouusingitwithpermission?
21A.Yes.
22+ Q. Andwhosepermissionisitthatwasgivento
23youtousethevehicle?
24MR.HARRIS:Illobjectonthegroundsthatinvades
25privacyrightsofthirdparty,anditinvadestheprivacy
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1rightsofthirdpartywhoarenothereatthejudgment
2debtorexamination,andIllinstructhimnottoanswer.
3MR.STEIN:
4Q. WhatcoloristheLandCruiser?
SA.Idontseethatitsaquestionthatreally
6mattersbecauseitsnotmine,andsoitsimmaterial.
7MR.STEIN:Areyougoinginstructhimnotto
Sanswer?
9MR.HARRIS:Answerthat.
10THEWITNESS:Itswhite.
11MR.STEIN:
12Q. Andthelicenseplateonthevehicle,doyou
13knowthat?
14A.No.
15Q. Doyouusethisvehicleregularly?
16A.Fromtimetotime.
17Q. Doyouownanyautomobiles?
18A.No.
19Q. Doyouownanyothermotorvehicles,cars,
20boats,motorcycles,airplanes?
21A.No,Idontthinkso.
22Q. Isthereanythingthatyouwouldrefertothat
23wouldhelpyouanswerthatquestion?
24A.No.
25Q. Norecordsthatyoukeepastovehiclesor
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1anythinglikethat?
2A.NotthatIcanthinkof.
3Q. Canyoutellmeyoursocialsecuritynumber,
4please?
5A.Idontknowitbyheart.
6Q. Isyoursocialsecuritynumber563985388?
7A.Soundslikeitmightbe.
BQ. Doyouuseanyothersocialsecuritynumbers
9besidestheoneIjustrecited?
10A.Pmnotabsolutelycertaintheoneyoujust
11recitedismine,butIonlyusemyownsocialsecurity
12number.
13Q. Areyoumarried?
14A.No.
15Q. Areyoudivorced?
16A.Yes.
17Q. Howmanytimeshaveyoubeendivorced?
18A.One.
19Q. Andyourexwifersname,please?
20A.Sherry.
21Q. And herlastname?
22A.Gaggero.
23Q. DoessheuseGaggero,ordoessheuseher
24maidenname?
25A.Idontthink Ithinksheremarried.
20
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1Q. Doyouknowwhereshelives?
2A.No.
3Q. Wheredidshelivethelasttimeyouwerein
4contactwithher?
5A.InSantaBarbara.
6Q. DoyouhaveanaddressinSantaBarbara?
7A.No.
8Q. Andwhenwasitthatyouhadyourlastcontact
9withher?
10A.Ido&tremember.
11Q. Withinthelast.fiveyears?
12A.Ithinkso,yes.
13Q. Whenwereyoudivorcedfromher?
14A.Inthemid90s.
15Q. Doyouhaveanychildren?
16A.No.
17Q. Doyouresidewithanyoneelsebesides
18yourselfat937PalisadesBeachRoadinSantaMonica,
19California?
20A.Youmean,doIcohabitate?
21Q. Yes.
22A.No.
23Q. Isthereanyoneelsethatlivesinthat
24propertythatyoudontcohabitatewith?
25A.Fromtimetotime.
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Q. Friendsofyours?
A.Yes.
Q. Noonetherepermanently?
A.Notpermanently,no.
Q. Isthereanyonetheretoday?
A.Today?Rightnow?Idontknow.
Q. Wasanyonetherelastnight?
A.Yes.
Q. Andwhowouldthatbe?
A.Idontthinkitsimportant.
+
Q. Thatpersonmayhaveinformationaboutyour
assets.Imentitledtoinquire.
A.Theydont.
Q. Pleasegivemethepersonsname.
A.No.
MR.STEIN:Areyougoingtoinstructhim?
MR.HARRIS:Imgoingtoinstructhimnottoanswerthat,asit
invadestheprivacyrightsofthirdpartywhoarenotheretoday.
Theresbeennoshowingthispersonhasanyknowledgeabouthis
assets.
Soonthosetwogrounds,Iminstructinghimnottoanswer.
MR.STEIN:
Q. WhoisStephanieBoren?
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HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC- GLOBALSERVICES- 800.697.3210
1A.Mystepsister.
2Q. AndhermiddlenameisRae,RAE?
3A.Idontknowhowitsspelled.
4Q. ButitisRae,Tregardlessofhowitis
5spelled?
6A.Yes.
7Q. WheredoesMissBoren,BOR..EN,reside?
SA.InSanDiegoCounty.
9Q. MayIhaveheraddress,please?
10A.Idontknowit.
11Q. MayIhaveherphonenumber?
12A.Idontknowit.
13Q. Doyouhaveatelephonedirectoryonthecell
14phonethatthecourtallowedyoutokeepthismorning?
15A.Yes.
16Q. Wouldyoucheckonthereandtellmewhether
17Ms.Borenstelephonenumberislistedinthatdirectory?
18A.Itsnot.
19Q. Okay.Youhavetiledalawsuitwhichis
20presentlypendinginthiscourt.ItisentitledStephen
21GaggeroversusAnnaMarieYura,YURA.
22InthecomplaintthatIhaveseeninthatcase,you
23haveindicatedthatStephanieRaeBorenisanaccommodator
24foryouinconnectionwiththerightsthatyouclaimin
25938PalisadesBeachRoadinSantaMonica,California.
23
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1Canyouexplaintomehowyouownanyinterestin
2therightsChatMs.Borenownsinthatproperty?
3MR.HARRIS:Imgoingtoobjectonthegroundsit
4assumesfactsnotinevidenceandmischaracterjzes
5evidence.
6Butyoucananswer.
7THEWITNESS:Idontunderstandthequestion.
8MR.STEIN:
9Q. Okay.DoyouknowwhetherMs.Borenhasany
10rightswhatsoevertotherealpropertythatislocated
11commonlyknownas938PalisadesBeachRoadinSantaMonica,
12California?
13A.Ithinkthatsalegalquestion,andIdont
14knowthatImqualifiedtoanswerit.
15MR.HARRIS: Okay.Objecttotheextentitcalls
16forlegalconclusion.
17MR.STEIN:
18+ Q. Okay.Totheextentthatyouhaveany
19informationastowhatrightsMs.Borenhas,wouldyou
20pleasetellme.
21MR.HARRIS:Again,objecttotheextentitcalls
22forlegalconclusion.
23Butifyouunderstandthequestionandyouhavethe
24information
25THEWITNESS:Well,Ithinkitsathirdparty,and
24
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1IthinkMs.Borenshouldbeallowedtohavemattersthat
2pertaintoherprotected,andsoImnotgoingtoanswer
3anyquestionspertainingtoMs.Borenorherrightsinthis
4debtorsexambecauseithasnothingdowithmyassets.
SMR.HARRIS:Okay.Thentotheextentthequestion
6wouldcallforanyinformationalsoaboutherrightsand
7herownershipinterest,itsobjectedtoonthegrounds
8thatitinvadestheprivacyrightsofthirdpartywho
9arentpresenthereatthejudgmentdebtorsexamination.
10Hesinstructednottoanswer.
11MR.STEIN:
12Q.DidMs.Borenassigntoyouorgivetoyouany
13rightsinthepropertythatiscommonlyknownas
14938PalisadesBeachRoad,SantaMonica,California?
15A.ThatquestionisdifficulttoanswerbecauseI
16dontunderstanditexactly.
17MR.HARRIS:Objecttotheextentitcallsforlegal
18conclusionandvagueandambiguous.
19Rephraseitifyouwant.
20MR.STEIN:Okay.
21Q.LetsseeifIcantakeitfromthecats
22mouth.
23Letmeswitchsubjectshereforasecond.
24Mr.Gaggero,youwereservedasubpenaducestecum
25inconnectionwiththisexamination.
25
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1Imgoingtogiveacopyofittothecourtreporter
2andaskthatshemarkthatasExhibitnumber1toyour
3deposition.And Illgiveyouacopy,andIllgive
4Ipresume,Mr.Harris1thatyouhaveacopyandyou
5cansharethecopythatIrveprovidedtoyourclient.
6Thisdocumentlistsseveralcategoriesofdocuments.
7Haveyoubroughtanydocumentswithyoutodaythat
8areresponsivetothedocumentproductionrequestsinthis
9subpena?
10A.Yes.
--
11Q. MayIhavethem,please.
12A.Yes(indicating)
13Q. Thesearetheonlydocumentsthatare
14responsivetoallofthecategoriesinthatrequestfor
15productionofdocuments?
16MR.HARRIS: Withinhispossession,custodyor
17control,yeah.
18MR.STEIN;
19Q. Imgoingtoreviewthis.Letsgothrough
20it.
21Youveprovidedmewithtwopiecesofpaper.Oneof
22themisastatementofaccountfromJacksonFederalBank,
23datedApril27th,2001,thatreflectsanendingbalanceof
24$3,817.07.Itreflectsthatitisinthenameof
25StephenM.Gaggeroat2802SantaMonicaBoulevard,
26
HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERSLLCGLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
-
1SantaMonica,California,904042410.
2Mr.Gaggero.Whataddressis2802SantaMonica
3Boulevard?
4A.Itsanaddressthatthatdocumentgotmailed
5to.
6Q. Andwhywouldthebankhavemailedthat
7documenttothataddress?
8A.Becausethatstheaddresswherealawyerof
9minepracticeslawfromtimetotime.
10Q. Andwhoisthatlawyer?
1].A.JoePraske,PRASKE
12Q. Doyouhaveanyotherofyourbusiness
13informationsenttoMr.Praske?
14A.Idontknow.
15Q. ThebalanceinthisaccountasofApril27was
16aPproximately$3,800.
17Isthatbalancemoreorlesstoday,ifyouknow?
18A.Ithinkitsless.
19Q. Andwhenyoureceivepaymentor,forexample,
20fromPacificManagementCompanybycheck,thecheckswould
21bedepositedinthisaccount?
22A.Sometimes,
23Q. Youvealsohandedmeadocumententitled
24GenovaHoldingsLLC,CertificateofMembership,andits
25datedMarch31st,1998,anditreflectsthatyouarea
27
-
1A.Idontknow.
2Q. Anyproblemswithyourhealththatwould
3preventyoufromgivingfullandcompleteanswerstoday?
4A.Idontthinkso.
5Q. Withinthelast24hours,haveyouconsumed
6anyalcoholicbeverages?
7A.Yes.
SQ. Andwhatdidyouconsume?
9A.Iconsumedtwomartinis.
10Q. Whendidyouconsumethose?
11A.Lastnightatdinner.
12Q. Whattimewasthatapproximately?
13A.Idontrememberexactly.
14Q. Wouldtheconsumptionoftwomartinisimpair
15yourabilitytorecalloranswerquestionstoday?
16A.Idontthinkso.
17Q. Areyoutakinganyprescriptionmedication?
18A.No.
19Q. Areyoutakinganynonprescriptionmedication?
20A.No.
21Q. Areyoutakinganyillegalnarcotics?
22A.No.
23Q. So,toyourknowledge,theresnomedicalor
24physicalreasonthatyourmemorywouldbeimpairedinany
25waytoday?
29
-
1A.Whatsyourquestionagain?
2Q. Doyouknowofanyreasonwhyyourmentalor
3physicalabilitytorecallwouldbeinanywayimpaired
4today?
5MR.EARRIS:Anydifferentthannormal.
6THEWITNESS:Anydifferentthannormal, no,I
7dont.
8MR.STEIN:
9Q. Sothesearetheonlytwodocumentsthatare
10inyourpossessionorcustodythatwereresponsivetothis
11documentproductionsubpena?
12A.Youvealreadyaskedmethatquestion.
13Yes.
14Q. Theanswerisyes.1
15MayIseeyourdriverslicense,please.
16A.Ilostit.
17Q. Youlostit.
18Soyoudroveheretodaywithoutadriverslicense?
19A.Thatscorrect.
20Q. Whatisyourdriverslicensenumber?
21A.Idontknowitoffhand.Imsorry.
22Q. Whendidyouloseyourdriverslicense?
23A.Theothernight,
24Ilostitandmypocketknife.Musthavefallenout
25ofmypants.
30
-
1Q. Wheredidthisoccur?
2A.Itoccurredataconcert.
3Q. Whichconcertwasthat?
4A.PaulSimon.
5Q. Wherewastheconcert?
6A.ItwasattheGreektheater.
7Q. Didyouloseyourwallet,aswell?
8A.Idontcarryawallet.
9Q. Doyouhaveanyotherbankaccountsbesides
10theaccountatJacksonFederalBank?
11A.No.
12Q. Doyouhaveanysavingsaccountsbesideswhat
13maybeatJacksonFederalBank?
14A.No.
15Q. Doesanybankextendtoyoualineofcredit?
16A.No.
17Q. Inthelastfiveyearshaveyourequesteda
18loanfromanycreditcardorbankinginstitution?
19A.Idontknow.
20Q. Dontknoworyoudontrecall?
21A.Idontknow.Idontrecall.Both.
22Q. WhatistheGBCTrust?
23A.Idontknow.
24Q. HowabouttheGBCCorporation?
25A.Idontknow.
31
-
1Q. Didtherecomeapointintimewhenyou
2transferredanyassetstoafamilytrustinyourname?
3A.Idontknow.
4Q. Haveyoudoneanyestateplanning?
5A.Yes.
6Q. Aspartofthatestateplanning,didyou
7prepareawill?
8A.IdontknowifIdidornot.
9Q. Didyoupreparealivingtrust?
10A.Idontknowwhatalivingtrustis.
11Q. Didyouengageanattorneytoprepareestate
12planningdocumentsforyou?
13A.Yes.
14Q. Andwhowasthatattorney?
15A.JoePraske.
16Q. Didyousigndocumentsthatwerepreparedby
17Mr.Praske?
18A.Yes.
19Q. Canyourecallwhenitwaswhenthose
20documentsweresigned?
21A.Manydifferenttimes.
22Q. Whenwasmostrecentlythatyoucanrecall?
23A.Idontknow.
24Q. Doyouhavecopiesofanyofthedocuments
26thatMr.Praskepreparedforyouinthisregard?
32
-
1A.No.
2Q. Whohasthedocuments?
3A.Mr.Praske.
4Q. Anyoneelse?
5A.Nottomyknowledge.
6Q. YourfathersnameisStephenGaggero,as
7well?
8A.Thatscorrect.
9Q. WheredoesyourfatherStephenGaggeroreside?
10A.InSanDiegoCounty.
11Q. Canyougivemetheaddresswhereheresides?
12A.No.
13Q. Doyouknowtheaddresswhereheresides?
14A.Notoffthetopofmyhead.
15Q. IsitinacitycalledFallbrook?
16A.Yes.
17Q.AndisyourmothersnameBillie,BILLIE,
18Gaggero?
19A.Yes,mystepmother.
20Q. Youchangedyournameseveralyearsagofrom
21BlanchardtoGaggero;isthatcorrect?
22A.Thatscorrect.
23Q. Andthepurposethatyoustatedfordoingthat
24wasthatyouhadreestablishedyourrelationshipwithyour
25naturalfatherwhosenameisthesameasyours;isthat
33
-
1correct?
2A.Thatscorrect.
3Q. AndItakeitthatBlanchardwasyourmothers
4maidenname?
5A.No.
SQ. WheredidthenameBlanchardcomefrom?
7A.AstepfatherIhad.
8Q. Whatwashisfirstname?
9A.Glen.
10Q. AndisMr.GlenBlanchardstillalive?
11A.Ibelieveso.
12Q. Whenwasthelasttimeyouhadanycontact
13withhim?
14A.Alongtimeago.
15Q. Morethantenyears?
ISA.Yes.
17Q. Thelasttimeyouhadcontactwith
18GlenBlanchard,wheredidhelive,ifyouknow?
19A.InCanada.
20Q. Isyournaturalmotheralive?
21A.Ibelieveso.
22Q. Whenwasthelasttimeyouhadcontactwith
23her?
24A.Alongtimeago.
34
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1A.Yes.
2Q. Doyouknowwhereitwasshewaswhenyoulast
3hadcontactwithher?
4A.IbelieveitwasCanada,butthatswhereshe
5resided.
6Q. Doyouknowwhethersheisalivetoday?
7A.Ibelievesheis.
SQ. Haveyouhadanycontactwithherinthelast
9tenyears?
10A.No.
11Q. Andwhatisherfirstname?
12A.Barbara.
13Q. AsidefromStephanieBoren,doyouhaveany
14brothersorsisters?
15A.Yes.
16+ Q. Canyougivemetheirnames,please.
17A.Andthereasonforthislineofquestioning
18is?
19Q. Becausetheymayhavepropertythatbelongsto
20youintheirkeepingforyou
21A.Theydonot.
--
22Q. ormayhaveknowledgeofthat,andIm
23entitledtolookatitandtalktothemandfindout.
24Soifyoudpleasegivemetheirnames.
25A.Idontknowthattheyneedtobeharassedby
35
HUTCHING5COURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
--
1yOU. Theydont.
2MR.HARRIS:Basedonhistestimony,theydonthave
3anyofhisproperty,Imobjectingonthegroundsthat
4youreseekinginformationaboutthirdpartiesthatis
5protectedbytherightofprivacy.
6Thesethirdpartiesarenthereto arenthereto
7presenttheirobjection,soImobligatedtopresentiton
Btheirbehalf.
--
9Andbasedonthatobjection,Iminstructinghimnot
10toanswer.
11MR.STEIN:Doyourepresentanyoftheseparties?
12MR.HARRIS:Idonthavetorepresentthemto
13asserttheirprivacyinterests.Imobligatedtoassert
14thoseinterestsontheirbehalfsincetheyrenotpresent
15heretoday.
16MR.STEIN:
17Q. Doyouhaveasafedepositboxinyourname?
18A.No.
19Q.Doyouhaveaccesstoanyotherpersonssafe
20depositbox?
21A.Idontknow.
22Q. Youdontknowwhetheryouhaveaccesstoany
23otherpersonssafedepositbox?
24A.IdontthinkIdo,butIdontwantto
25precludethepossibility.
36
-
1Q. Sointhelastyear,haveyouputanythingin
2asafe depositboxanywhere?
3A.No.
4Q. Inthelastyear,haveyoutakenanythingout
5ofasafedepositboxanywhere?
6A.No.
7Q. Canyoupleasetellmethenameofevery
8corporationinwhichyouhaveanownershipinterest?
9A.IthinkIhaveownershipinterestina
10corporationcalledClippersomethingorother.Idont
11knowthenameofit.
12Q. AndwhatwasClipper?
13A.Itwasjustacorporation.
14Q. Whatsortofbusinesswasitengagedin?
15A.Idontthinkitwasengagedinanybusiness.
16Q. Wereyouaprincipal;forexample,the
17presidentofClipper?
18A.Idontremember.
19Q. Wereyouanofficer?
20A.Idontremember.
21Q. Whenwasthelasttimethatyouhadanything
22todowhatsoeverwithClipper?
23A.Imnotsure.
24Q. Arethereanyothercorporationsthatyouhave
25anownershipinterestin,privatelyorpubliclytraded
37
HUTCHINGECOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
-
1corporations?
3Q. Doyouownanystockinanycorporation?
4A.Idontthinkso.MaybeClipper,butImnot
5sure.
6Q. Anystockinanypubliclytradedcorporation?
BQ. Doyouhaveanybrokerageaccounts,stock
9brokerageaccounts?
10A.No.
11Q. Doyouownanymutualfunds?
12A.No.
13Q. Doyoucontrolanymutualfundsasatrustee
14orexecutorofatrust?
15A.No.
16Q. Haveyouplacedanyassets,realorpersonal,
17inanytrustinthelastfiveyears?
18A.Idontthinkso,butImnotsure.
19Q. Howaboutwithinthelasttenyears?
20A.Pmnotsure.
21Q. ThereasonIbringitupisthatyourother
22attorney,StephenGarcia,hasstatedtomehecreateda
23familytrustandtransferredallofyourassetsinthe
24familytrust,andtheresultofthatwasthatitrendered
25youjudgmentproof.
38
-
1So,therefore,havingbeenadvisedbyyourattorney,
2canyougivemethenameofyourfamilytrust?
3A.Idonthave
4MR.HARRIS:Objectiontotheextentitmisstates
5theevidenceandassumesfactsnotinevidence.
6Butyoucananswer.
7THEWITNESS:IdontknowwhyMr.Garciawouldhave
8saidthattoyou.
9MR.HARRIS:Ifhedid.
10MR.STEIN:
--
11Q. Assumingforamomentthathedid,butwhats
12thenameofyourfamilytrust?
13A.Idonthaveafamily quote,unquote,
14familytrustthatIm Idontreallyunderstandwhat
--
--
15youmeanbythat.
16Likemyfamilytrust?
17Idonthave Idontownafamilytrust,if
18thatswhatyoureasking.
--
19Q. Doyoucontrolafamilytrust?
20A.No.
21Q. Areyouthebeneficiaryofafamilytrust?
22MR.HARRIS:Totheextentthatitcallsforlegal
23conclusion buthecananswerifheunderstands.
24THEWITNESS:ImnotsureifIamornot.
25Imaybethebeneficiaryofafamilytrust.
39
--
IMR.STEIN:
2Q. Whatfamilytrustmightyoubeabeneficiary
3of?
4A.TheGaggeroFamilyTrust,butImnotsureif
5Iarnor not.
6+ Q.AndwhoestablishedtheGaggeroFamilyTrust?
7A.Idontknow,butsinceitsnot sinceIm
8notsurethatImabeneficiaryandsinceitsnotmy
9trust,Ireallydontthinkthatanyquestioningalongthe
10linesofthattrustareyourbusinessatthistimeuntil
11whoeveritisthatdoescontrolthetrust andIdont
12know hasarighttoprotectanythirdpartyinterest.
13MR.HARRIS:Soonthegroundthathestatedhehas
14noownershipinterestinit,Imobjectingonthegrounds
15thatthequestioninvadesconstitutionalrighttoprivacy
16ofthirdpartywhoarentpresentatthejudgmentdebtors
17examination,andIminstructinghimnottoanswer.
18MR.STEIN:
--
--
--
19Q. Whenwewereincourtthismorningandthe
20courtorderedyoutoturnaportionofyourmoneyoverto
21meascreditagainstthejudgment,wheredidyougetthat
22money?
23A.Idontremember.
24Q.Didyougetitoutofyourbankaccountat
25JacksonFederalBank?
40
RUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
-
1A.No.
2Q. Didsomeonegiveittoyou?
3A.Idontremember.
4Q. DidyoufinditontheStreet?
5A.No.
6Q. Didyoustealit?
7A.No.
8Q. Butyouhavenoideahowthatmoneywoundup
9inyourpockettoday?
10A.Itsbeeninmypocketforsometime.
11Q. Howdiditgetthere?
12A.Idontremember.
13Q. Didyouearnit?
14A.ImsureIdid.
15Q. Howdidyouearnit?
16A.Idontremember. I dont remember where it
17camefrom,sohowcanItellyouhowspecificallyIearned
18itorwhatportionofthemoneywereeventalkingabout.
19MR.HARRIS:Youanswered.Okay.
20MR.STEIN:
21Q. Afteryouleaveheretoday,areyougoingto
22replenishyoursupplyofcash?
23A.Ihaventmadeanydecisionsinthatregard.
24Q. Ifyouwere,wherewouldyougetthecash
25from?
41
HtJTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC - GLOBALSERVICES- 800.697.3210
1A.Iwould ifIneededsomemoremoney,Ihave
2alittlemoneyinthatbankaccount.
--
3Q. Doyouhaveonofficewhereyouwork?
4A.Iworkat938PalisadesBeachRoad.
SQ. Andarethereanyfurnishingsatthataddress?
6A.Yes.
7Q. Areanyofthosefurnishingsyours?
8A.No.
9Q. Aretheyallthepartofthepropertyitself?
10A.Idontknow.
11Q. Wasthatfurnituretherewhenyoustarted
12livingthere?
13A.No.
14Q. Wasitbroughtthereafter excusemefora
15moment.
17MR.STEIN:LettherecordreflectthatMr.Schlein
18hasdepartedthepresenceofthisexamination.
19MR.HARRIS:Afterpassingyouanote.
20MR.STEIN:Afterpassingmeanote,yes.
--
21Q. Okay.Soletmegetbacktothefurniture
22thatisinthepremisesat938PalisadesBeachRoad.
23Wasittherewhenyoumovedin?
24A.No.
25Q. Itwasthereaftersomeonebroughtitthere
42
-
1afteryoumovedin?
2A.Yes.
3Q. Andwhobroughtitthere?
4A.Idontknow.
SQ. Justshowedupmysteriouslyoneday?
6A.Idontrememberwhobroughtitthere.
7Q. Wasitbroughtbyprofessionalmovers?
8A.Idontremember.
9Q. Wasisitbroughtbyyou?
10A.No.
11Q. Wasanythingbesidesyourclothingthatisin
12thatplacebroughtintothatplacebyyou?
13A.Idontknow.
14Q. Didyoubringadeskintotheplace?
15A.Idontremember.
16Q. Didyoubringatelevisionintotheplace?
17A.No.
18Q. Isthereatelevisionintheresidence?
19A.Yes.
20Q. Howmanytelevisions?
21A.One.
22Q. Isthereatelephoneintheresidence?
23A.Yes.
24+ Q. MayIhavethetelephonenumber,please?
25A.No,itsnotmytelephonenumber.
43
-
1MR.HARRIS:Okay.Totheextentthequestions
2callsforinformationprotectedbytherightofprivacy
3withregardtothirdpartywhoarentpresentatthe
4judgmentdebtorsexamination,instructhimnottoanswer.
5MR.STEIN:Youknowthatyoumovedforprotective
6orderseekingtoprecludehimfromgivinghistelephone
7number,andthecourtdeniedthat.
SMR.HARRIS:Doyouhave canyoushowmethat
--
9portionoftheorder?
10MR.STEIN:Herestheorder(indicating)
11Histelephonenumberisnotprotectedbythat.
12THEWITNESS:Idonthaveatelephonenumber.
13MR.STEIN:
14Q. Whatisthetelephonenumberthatpeoplewho
15knowyouusetocallyou?
16A.Whatisthereasonforthat?
17Sinceitsnotmytelephonenumber,whywouldthat
18beanissuehere?
19Q. SoIcancontactthetelephonecompanyand
20findouthowthebillispaid?
21A.Isee.
22Q. Canyougivemethattelephonenumber,please.
23A.Yes,its(310)7211999.
24Q. Doesthatringattheresidenceat
25938PalisadesBeachRoad?
44
-
1A.No.
2Q. Wheredoesthatring?
3A.ThatsthecellphonethatIuse.
4Q. Thatsthecellphone.
5Andwhoownsthatcellphonenowthatweretalking
6aboutit?
7A.Imnotsure.IthinkitseitherAvalonor
8PacificCoastManagement,butImnotsurewhich.
9Q. Doyoupaythephonebillforthatcellular
10phone?
11A.No.
12Q. Doyouhaveafacsimilemachineanywherethat
13youuse?
14A.Well,PacificCoastManagementhasafax
15machine.Itsnotmine.
16Q. Andthatwouldbelocatedattheirofficeat
17theaddressthatyougaveme?
18A.Theresoneat938thatIuse.
19Q. ThatbelongstoPacificmanagement?
20A.Thatscorrect.
21Q. DoyouknowwhetherPacificmanagementisa
22corporation?
23A.Imnotsure.
24Q. Doyouknowwhetheritsapartnership?
25A.Imnotsure.
45
-
1Q. Doyouknowwhetheritsasole
2proprietorship?
3A.Imnotsure.Idontbelieveitsasole
4proprietorship.
5Q. Isthereacomputerat938PalisadesBeach
6Road?
7A.Yes.
8Q. Doesitbelongtoyou?
9A.No.
10Q. Towhomdoesitbelong?
11A.Itbelongstosomebodyotherthanme.
12Q. Whomightthatbe?
13A.Well,Idontthinkitmattersaslongasit
14doesntbelongtome.
15Youkeepaskingquestionsaboutotherpeopleand
16otherentitiespossessions,notaboutmine.SoIcantell
17youitsnotmycomputerthatIuse.
18Q. Understandthatinadebtorsexamination,Im
19givenanincrediblybroadrangeofpermissiblequestionsto
20asktotrackdownassetsthatyouown,peoplethatoweyou
21things,peoplewhoareholdingthingsonyourbehalf.
22Youhaveprofessed,asidefromhaving$3800inthe
23bank,tonothaveanymoney,butsomehowyouseemtolivea
24nicelifestyle.
25AndImhere andmygoalandwhatIvebeenhired
46
--
1foristodeterminehowyougetthemoneytofinanceyour
2lifestyle.
3Sopartofmyquestionsaretobeableultimatelyto
4talktothirdpartieswhomayordooweyoumoneyorowe
5youobligationsorownthingsandareholdingthemonyour
6behalf.Sothatisthepurposeformyquestions.
7Sohavingsaidthat,areyougoingtocontinueto
Sinstructhimnottoanswerwhoownsthecomputer?
9MR.HARRIS:Ididntinstructhim.
10MR.STEIN:Willyouinstructhimnottoanswerwho
11ownsthecomputerattheresidence938PalisadesBeach
12Road?
13THEWITNESS:Everythingyoujustsaid,Ithink
14thatsfine.
15Andwhenyouaskthosepartiesquestions,theyre
16entitledtohavelawyersdefendtheirrighttoprivacy.
17AndIdontknowhowwhoownsthecomputerwhereI
18workhasanythingtodowithaskingapersonwhetherornot
19theyareholdinganassetforme.
20MR.STEIN:
21Q. Fine.
22+ Canyoutellmewhoownsthecomputer?
23A.No,Idontseethatitmatters.
24MR.HARRIS:Okay.Imgoingtoinstructhimnot
25answeronthegroundsthat well,doyouknow?
47
--
1THEWITNESS:Itsnotmycomputer,andwhoownsit
2isimmaterial.
3MR.HARRIS: onthegroundsitsnotrelevantto
4hisassets.Alsoonthegroundsthattheprivacyinterests
5ofthirdpartywhoarentherearebeinginvadedbythe
6questionand,therefore,Iminstructinghimtoprotectthe
7privacyinterestofthosethirdparties.
SMR.STEIN:
--
9Q. Doyouenterdataintothatcomputer?
10A.Fromtimetotime.
11Q. Whosedatadoyouenterintothecomputer?
12Doesitbelongtoyou,ordoesitbelongtosomeone
13else?
14A.Ithinkthatsalegalquestion.Idontknow
15theramificationsinthatquestion.
16Q. Doyoukeepyourcheckbookrecordsinthat
17computer,forexample?
18A.No.
19Q. Doyoukeepnotesofthingsthatyouare
20workingoninthatcomputer?
21A.No.
22Q. Thenwhatsortofthingsdoyouenterinto
23thatcomputer?
24A.LettersthatImightwrite.
25Q. Letterstoyourattorneysorletterstoyour
48
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1
2
3
4
5
6
7
S
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
friendsorboth?
A.Both.
Q. Doyouownanyotherofficeequipment?
A.Idontownanyofficeequipment.
Q. Doyouownadesk?
A.No.
Q. Doyouownachair?
A.No.
Q. IsthereadeskandachairatPalisadesBeachRoadthatyou
usetoworkorsiton?
A.Yes.
Q. Andwhoownsthedeskandthechair?
A.Itsthesameresponse.Itsnotmine,soIdontthinkit
matterswhoownsit.
Q. Doyourentit?
A.No,Idonot.
MR.STEIN:Areyougoingtoinstructhimnotto
tellme?
+MR.HARRIS:Whoownsit?Ifheknows.
MR.STEIN:Yes.
MR.HARRIS:Okay.Sameobjection.
One,hedoesntownit.Ithasnomaterialbearing
uponassets.
Two,sinceitsownedbysomebodyelse,thequestioninvadesthe
privacyinterestsofthethirdpartywhoisnt
49
1hereatthedebtorsexaminationand,therefore,Im
2instructinghimnottoanswerthequestiontoprotectthe
3thirdpartysprivacyinterests.
4MR.STEIN:WhydontyouandIstipulatethatif
Syouinstructhimnottoansweronthegroundofthirdparty
6privacyandyousaythat,thatwillbeasufficient
7objection.Andwetildeemittobeinclusive,asyouhave
8juststatedobjection,TI andsavealittleroominthe
9transcript.
10MR.HARRIS:Well,IwanttomakesureIgetmy
11objectionsontherecordso
12MR.STEIN:Okay.Fairenough.
13Q. Mr.Gaggero,doyouhaveanybusiness
14inventory?
15A.Idontunderstandthequestion.
16Q. Inthenatureoftheworkthatyoudo,doyou
17sellanything?
18A.No.
19Q. Doyoumakeanything?
20A.No.
21Q. Doyoubuildanything?
22A.No.
23Q. IntheworkthatyoudoforPacific
24Management,whatisthenatureoftheworkthatyoudo?
25A.Imaconsultant.
50
--
IQ. Whatdoyouconsultupon?
2A.Variousthings.
3Q. Suchas?
4A.Idontknowanexamplerightnow.
5Q. Doyouconsultonrealestatedevelopment?
6A.Youdhavetodefinerealestate
7development.
8Q. Buildingofahouseorhousesoracommercial
9building.
10A.Fromtimetotime.
11Q. Areyoupresentlyalicensedbuilding
12contractor?
13A.IthinkIam.
14Q. Atonepointintimeyoucertainlywere;is
15thatcorrect?
16A.Thatisright.
17Q. Doyouknowwhetheryourlicenseiscurrentor
18not?
19A.Imnotsure.
20Q. Andthecontractorslicensethatyouhaveor
21had,whattypeoflicensewasit?
22A.ABlicense.
23Q. Doyourememberthelicensenumber?
24A.No.
25Q. AndthatwaswiththeCaliforniacontractors
51
-
Ilicenseboardthatissuedthelicense?
2A.Yes.
3Q. Andwasitinthenameof1Gaggeroorinthe
4nameofBlanchard?
5A.Imnotsure.
6Q. DoyoupresentlyusethenameBlanchardat
7all?
8A.No.
9Q. HaveyoueverheardofBoardwalkSunset,LLC?
10A.Yes.
11Q. DoyouownalloranypartofBoardwalk
12Sunset,LLC?
13A.No.
14Q. Didyouevertransferanypropertyto
15BoardwalkSunset,LLC?
16A.Yes.
17Q. Andwhatdidyoutransfer?
18A.601OceanFrontWalk.
19Q. Whendidyoutransferthat?
20A.Idontremember.
21Q. Howmuchwereyoupaid?
22A.Likefiveyearsago.
23Imnotsure.
24Q. HowmuchwereyoupaidbyBoardwalkSunset,
25LLC,for601OceanFrontWalk?
52
-
1A.Idontremember.
2Q. Wereyoupaidanything?
3A.Idontthinkso.
4Q. And601OceanFrontWalkisinVenice,
5California?
6A.Yes.
7Q. Doyoupresentlyhaveanyinterestin
SBoardwalkSunset,LLC?
9A.No.
10Q. Andyoustatedthatyouneverhadanyinterest
IiinBoardwalkSunset,LLC;isthatcorrect?
12A.IdontknowifIdidornot.IdontthinkI
13did.
14Q. Howabout511OceanFrontWalkTrust,haveyou
15everheardofthat?
16A.Imnotsure.
17Q. Doyouhaveanyspecificrecollectionof
18anythingcalled511OceanFrontWalkTrust?
19A.Ihavenospecificrecollectionofthat.
20Q. Doyouhaveanygeneralrecollectionof511
21OceanFront excuseme,OceanFrontWalkTrust?
22A.No.
--
23Q. ItmaybereferredtoasOFWTrust.
24Doesthathelprefreshyourrecollectiononewayor
25another?
53
-
1A.No.
2Q. HowaboutAvalonDevelopment,doesthatname
3meananythingtoyou?
4A.Yes.
5Q. Andwhatdoesitmeantoyou?
6A.ThatspartofAvalonCorporation.
7Q. WasitformerlyknownasBlanchard
8ConstructionCo.Inc.?
9A.Yes.
10Q. Anditchangeditsname?
11A.Yes.
12Q. Anddidyoudirectthatitsnamebechanged?
13A.Idonutremember.
14Q. HowaboutAvalonFarms,doesthatnamemean
15anythingtoyou?
16A.ThatspartofthesameAvalonCorporation.
17Q. DoesAvalonCorporationownanyrealproperty?
18A.Imsorry.Whatwasthequestion?
19Q. DoesAvalonCorporationownanyrealproperty?
20A.Idontthinkso.
2].Q. AndAvalonFarms,whatisAvalonFarms?
22A.Idontthinkitexistsanymore.
23Q. HowaboutAvalonSunset,haveyoueverheard
24ofthat?
25A.Yes.
54
-
1Q. WhatwasAvalonSunset?
2A.AvalonSunsetisAvalonCorporation.
3Q. ItsanothernamethatAvalonCorporation
4uses?
5A.Ithinkitstheactualcorporatename
--
6Q. And
7A. Imnotsureonthat.
--
8Q. Now,yougavemethenameClipperbefore.
9IsitmorefullyClipperDevelopment?
10A.Itmightbe.
11Q. Doyouhaveanyrecollectiononewayor
12another?
13A.No.
14Q. HowaboutClipperEstates,Ltd.,haveyouever
15heardofthat?
16A.Imnotsure.
17Q. HowaboutAnimalArtGallery,Inc.?
18A.Thatwasalittle thatwasabusinessa
19longtimeagoIthinkIhadsomeinvolvementwith.
--
20Q. Canyoutellmeaboutit.
21A.Idontremembermuchaboutit.
22Q. Canyoutellmewhatyouremember?
23A.JustthatitwasabusinessIwasinvolvedin
24withsomebodyinVeniceon alongtimeago.
--
25Q. Andwasitacorporation?
55
-
1A.Idontremember.
2Q. Doesitstillexist?
3A.Idontthinkso.
4Q. Doyouhaveanythingtodowithittoday?
5A.No.
6Q. HowaboutGingerbreadCourtL.P.,haveyou
7everheardofthat?
8A.Yes.
9Q. AndwhatisorwasGingerbreadCourtL.P.?
10A.Idontknowwhatitisorwas.
11Q. Whatisit?
12A.Itsalimitedpartnership.
13Q. AreyoualimitedpartnerofGingerbread
14Court?
15A.No.
16Q. Areyoualimitedpartnerofanylimited
17partnership?
18A.Idontthinkso.
19Q. Wereyoueverwithinthelasttenyearsa
20limitedpartnerofanylimitedpartnership?
21A.Imighthavebeen.
22Q. Canyougivemethenamesofthoseentities
23thatyoumighthavebeenalimitedpartner?
24A.Icantthinkofany.
25Q. WereyoualimitedpartnerofGingerbread
56
-
1CourtLtd.partnership?
2A.Idontknow.Idon1tthinkIwas.Imnot
3sure.
4Q. HaveyoueverheardofBlu,BLU,House,LLC?
5A.Yes.
6Q. AndwhatisBluHouseLLC?
7A.Alimitedliabilitycompany.
8Q. Doyouhaveanyownershipinterestin
9BluHouseLLC?
10A.No.
11Q. DidyoueverhaveanyinterestinBluHouse
12LLC?
13A.Idontknow.
14MR.STEIN:Mr.Harris,wouldyouliketotakea
15break?
16MR.HARRIS:Wheneveryouwantto.
17MR.STEIN:Improbablynotgoingtobefinished
18herebefore4:00oclocktoday.
19MR.HARRIS:Takeaslongasyouneed.
20MR.STEIN:Iintendto.
21MR.HARRIS:Imperfectlycontenttoworkthrough.
22MR.STEIN:Wouldyouliketotakeabreak?
23THEREPORTER:Couldwetakeashortone?
25MR.STEIN:Letsgobackontherecord.
57
-
1Q. Mr.Gaggero,youwereswornbythecourtclerk
2inDepartment1Aunderthepenaltyofperjury.
3Doyourecalldoingthat?
4A.Yes.
5Andcanwejustmakeanotethatthisbreakhas
6takenahalfhour.
7Q. Webrokeat11:10.Its
8A.Webrokeat11:07,actually1anditsnow
911:
10MR.HARRIS::35.
11THEWITNESS: :36,Soitsahalfanhour.
12Sosinceyoutookmylunchmoneyaway,Imnotgoing
13tobehavinglunch,sincetherewasahalfhour,andnowwe
14canjustgoonthrough.
15MR.STEIN:Well,wellaccommodatemeandyour
16lawyerandthecourtreporter.
17THEWITNESS:Well,thecourtreporterisaluxury.
18MR.HARRIS:Iwanttogothrough.Wedontneed
19anyotherbreaks.
20MR.STEIN:Imight.
21Backontherecord.
22Couldyoureadbackthelastquestionbeforewetook
23abreak.
24(Therecordisreadbythereporter.)
25MR.STEIN:
58
--
--
--
1Q. Soyoudontknowwhetheryouhadanyinterest
2inMuHouseLLC?
3A.Thatscorrect.
4Q. Arethereanydocumentsthatmightbeanywhere
5thatwouldrefreshyourrecollectionastowhetheryouhad
SaninterestinBluHouseLLC?
7A.NotthatImawareof.
8Q. DoesMr.JosephPraskekeepallofyour
9businessrelateddocuments?
10A.No.
11Q. Doeshekeepsomeofyourbusinessrelated
12documents?
13A.Idontthinkso.
14Q. Isthat youindicatedbeforethathekept
15yourtrustoryourestateplanningdocuments?
16A.No,Itoldyouthathemight.Thathewasthe
17onethatcreatedtheestateplanning.
--
18Q. Okay.Andyoudonthaveacopyofanyof
19that?
20A.No.
21Q. DoyouknowanyonebesidesMr.Praskewho
22mighthaveacopy?
23A.No.
24Youaskedmethatquestionalready,didntyou?
25Q. Imnotsure.
59
-
1A.Yeah.
2Q. Whathappenstoyourpropertyif assuming
3thereisany,uponyourdeath?
4A.Whatproperty?
--
5Q. Anyofyourproperty.
6A.Idontownanyproperty.
7Q. Theshirtonyourback?
8A.Idontknowwhathappenstotheshirtonmy
9back,Iguessitdisintegratesinacoffin.Idontknow.
10Q. Did
11A.Lettherecordreflectwerelaughing.
--
12Q. Didyouprovideinyourestateplanning
13documentsthatanyofyourproperty,whateveritmightbe,
14whethernowacquiredorhereafteracquiredornowownedor
15hereafterowned,bedevisedtosomeoneorgotosomeone
16uponyourdeath?
17A.Idontrememberthat.
18Q. Doyourememberanythingaboutyourestate
19planningdocumentsonwhathappenstoanypropertythatyou
20mightnowownormighthereafteracquire?
21A.No,Idontknow.
22Idontownanypropertyso andIdontknow
23abouthereandafteracquiring.
24Isntthatthesamequestion,aswell?
-
25Q. Yousaidyoudidsomeestateplanning
60
-
1documents,andyousaidyouwerentsurewhetherit
2wasawillortrustorwhatitwas.AndImjusttryingto
3understandwhatyourplanforyourproperty,iftherewas
4any,wouldbewhenyoudied.
5Andyouretellingmeyoudontknow?
6A.Basically,yes.
7Q. BoardwalkSunset,LLC,haveyoueverheardot
8that?
9A.Didntyoualreadyaskmethatquestion?
10No.
11A.No?Actually,Ithinkyoudid
12Q. Ididnt.
13MR.HARRIS:Yeah,Ithinkyoudid,too.Yeah,I
14haveitherethatyouaskedhim.Ihavenotesthat
15continue,too.
16MR.STEIN:Allright.Letsmoveon.
17MR.HARRIS:Andthenyouwentinto511OceanFront
18WalkTrust.
19MR.STEIN:Okay.Imdownthelist.
20Q. TherewassomepropertyonBroadBeachin
21Malibuthatyouonceowned.
22Doyourecallthatproperty?
23A.Yes.
24Q. Whathappenedtothatproperty?
25A.Itwassold.
61
-
1Q. Andwhenwasitsold?
2A.Idontremember.
3Q. Withinthelasttenyears?
4A.Yes.
SQ. Andhowmuchwasitsoldfor?
6A.Idontknow.
7Q. Anyidea?
8A.No.
9Q. Adollar?
10Yes?No?Morethanadollar?
11A.Idontknow.
12Q. Youdontknow?
13A.Thatsasillyquestion.
14Q. Imaskingsillyquestions.Imentitledto
15sillyanswers.
16Doyouknowwhetheritwasmorethanadollar?
17A.No,Imnotsure,andIdontwantto
18speculate.
19Q. Wasitmorethanahundreddollars?
20MR.HARRIS:Askedandanswered.
21THEWITNESS:Whichsale?
22MR.STEIN:
23Q. ImtalkingaboutthepropertyonBroadBeach
24inMalibu.
25Thepropertywassoldsometimeinthelastten
62
-
1years?
2A.Yes.
3Q. Yes.
4Towhomwasitsold?
5A.Well,areyoutalkingaboutwhenIownedit?
6Q. Whenyouownedit,yes.
7A.Oh,Idontrememberactuallywhathappenedto
SitwhenIownedit.Idontrememberexactly.
9Whenwasthat?Alongtimeago,wasntit?
10Q. Whydontyoutellmewhatyourecallabout
11thepropertyonBroadBeach.
12Itwasonceownedbyyou?
13A.Correct.
14Q. Canyoutellmehowyouacquiredit,what
15happenedtotheproperty?
16A.Ithinkitwenttotheestateplanning,and
17thenafterthat,itwassold.
18Q.Sowhenyousayitwenttotheestate
19planning
20A.Yes.
--
21Q. whatdiditgointo?
22A.Idontremember.
--
23Q. Diditgointoatrust?
24A.Idontthinkso.
25Q. Diditgointoacorporation?
63
-
1A.Idontknow.
2Q. Diditgointoapartnership?
3A.Imnotsure.
4Q. Didyousignthepapersthattransferredit
Sintowhateveritwentinto?
6A.Idontremember.
7Q. Whowouldhavecopiesofthedocumentsthat
8dealtwiththetransferoftheBroadBeachproperty?
9A.Iimagineitwouldbepublicrecordwouldnt
10it.
11Q. Idontknow.Imaskingyou.
12Whowouldhaveyourcopiesofthedocuments?
13A.IdontknowthatIhavecopies.
14Q. Okay.Doesanybodythatyouworkwithhave
15controlofthosedocumentsrelatingtotheBroadBeach
16property?
17A.Whichdocuments?
18Q. Thepropertydocumentsthattransferredthe
19propertyfromyournameintotheestateplanningvehicle?
20A.Idontknow.
21Whatdoyoumean?PeopleIworkwith?
22Q. Lawyers,accountants,bookkeepers,clerks.
23A.Iamnotsure.Idontthinkso.
24Q. Doyouhaveanaccountant?
25A.Yes.
64
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1Q. Whatistheaccountantsname?
2A.JimWalters.
3Q. Andthefirm thatJimWaltersiswith?
4A.KelloggandAnderson.
5Q. AndtheyreinBeverlyHills?
6A.No,theyreintheValley.
7Q. Haveyoupreparedincometaxreturnsfor
8calendaryear2000?
9A.Idontknow.
10HaveIpersonally?Idontremember.
11Q. Wereincometaxreturnsfiledforyouorby
12youforcalendaryear,federaland/orstateincometax
13returns?
14MR.HARRIS:Imgoingtoobjectonthegroundsthat
15incometaxreturninformationisabsolutelyprivileged,and
16youknowthemotionforprotectiveorderwasgrantedtothe
17extentthatnotaxreturnsorrelateddocumentationor
18informationshallbeproduced.
19MR.STEIN:Imnotaskingforhistaxreturns.Im
20askingweretheyfiled.
21THEWITNESS:Itsaysrelatedinformation.
22MR.STEIN:Imjustaskingwhetherhefiledit.
23MR.HARRIS:Ithinkthatsrelatedinformation.
24MR.STEIN:Soareyougoingtoinstructhim?
25MR.HARRIS:Healreadysaidhedidntknow.
65
1MR.STEIN:Hedidntgettothatconclusion,but
2Imgoingtoask.
3THEWITNESS:No,Ididsaythat.Isaidittwice.
4MR.STEIN:
5Q. Soyoudontrecallwhetheryoutiledan
6incometaxreturnforcalendaryear2000?
7A.IsaidIdontknow.
8Q. Didyoufileafederalorstateincometax
9returnforcalendaryear1999?
10A.Idontknow.
11Q. Didyoufileafederalorstateincometax
12returnforcalendaryear1998?
13A.ImsureIdid.
14Q. WouldthathavebeenpreparedbyMr.Walters?
15A.IdontknowifhewouldhavebeentheoneCo
16prepareit.
17Q. Orhisfirm?
18A.Imnotsureifitwas,youknow,preparedby
19himorhisfirm. Inpart,Imsureitwas.
20Q. HowlonghasMr.Waltersbeenyouraccountant?
21A.Imnotsure.
22Q. Morethanayear?
23A.Yes.
24Q. Morethanfiveyears?
25A.Yes.
66
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2A.Idontthinkso.Imnotsure.
3Q.Inthelasttenyears,Mr.Gaggero,haveyou
4personallytakenanybankloansoutforrealproperty?
SA.Ithinkyouaskedmeaboutloansinthe
6beginningofyourinquiry.
7Idontknow.ImsureIhave.Inthelastten
8years,yeah1ImsureIhave.
9Q.Thereisalawsuitthatispresentlypending
10inwhichyouareaparty.ItisGaggeroversusFirst
11FederalBank.
12Ibelieveyouarefamiliarwiththatcase?
13A.Yes.
14Q. Andpartofthatcase,asIunderstandit
15youcancorrectmeifImwrong hadtodowitha
16foreclosureofabankloan;isthatcorrect?
--
--
17A.Whatsthenameofthecaseagain?
18GaggeroversusFirstFederalBank?
19A.Yes.
20Q.Andsotherewasabankloanthatyoutookout
21fromFirstFederalBank?
22Yes?No?
23A.Yes,therewas.
24Q. Didyouprepareanapplicationforthatbank
25loan?
67
-
1A.Idontremember.
2Q. DoyourememberwhetheryouprovidedFirst
3FederalBankcopiesofanyorallofyourfederalincome
4taxreturns?
SA.Idontremember.
6Q. Isitpossiblethatyoudid?
7A.ItspossiblethatIdid.
8Thatwasbackin1990,though,Ithink,wasntit?
9Imnotcertain.
10Q. Okay.Letsgobacktotherealpropertyon
11BroadBeach.And thatpropertywastransferredbyyouinto
12yourestateplanningdocuments;isthatcorrect?
13A.Well,Imnotexactlysureifthatsthe
14correctstatement,but,yes,Ibelievethepropertywasput
15intoanestateplanning into wasincludedinthe
16estateplanning.
--
--
17Q. Estateplanningvehicle,letscallit?
18A.Okay.Vehicle.
19Q. Yourenotcertainwhethertherewasawillor
20atrust?
21A.Oh,Idontthinkitwasawilloratrust.
22Q. Itwassomethingelse?
23A.Yes.
24Q. Butyourenotsurewhatitwas?
25A.Thatscorrect.
68
-
1Q. Andyouhavenoideawhereanyofthe
2documentsarethatrelatetothattransfer?
3A.Well,Mr.Praskemayhavethedocuments
4pertainingtothattransfer.
5Q. Anyoneelse?
6A.Again,Idontthinkso.
7Q. AfterthepropertyonBroadBeachwas
8transferredintotheestateplanningvehicle andyou
9understandthatImeanwhateverentity,thing,itwas,
10werejustgoingtorefertoitanasanestateplanning
11vehicle
12A.Uhhuh.
--
--
13Q. whateveritwas,whathappenedtothe
14 property after that?
15 A. It was sold.
--
16 Q. And the estate planningvehiclewastheseller

17oftheproperty?
18A.Yes.
19Q. Anddoyourecallwhenthesaletookplace?
20A.Notexactly,no.
21Q. Wasitwithinthelasttenyears?
22A.Yes.
23Q. Wasitpartofyourdivorceprocessfromyour
24 wife that caused the property to be sold?
25 A. No, I dont think so.
69
HUTCHINGS COURT REPORTERS, LLC GLOBAL SERVICES 800.697.3210
-
IQ. Didyourexwifehaveanyinterestinthe
2propertyatthetimethatitwassold?
3A.Idontthinkso.
4Q. Didyourexwifereceiveanyoftheproceeds
5ofthesaleatthetimeitwassold?
6A.No.
7Q. Doyourecallnowthatwevenarrowedthe
8fielddownalittlebit,howmuchthesaleofthatproperty
9generated?
10A.No.AndtotheextentIdontownanyportion
11ofthatproperty,itreallyisntmybusiness.
12Q. Well,itwasownedbyyouandthenputintoan
13estateplanningvehiclebyyou?
14A.Yes.
15Q. Okay.Andthentheestateplanningvehicle
16soldit?
17A.Yeah,itwasmorethanjustestateplanning.
181dontknowwhetherestateplanningisacorrectword.
19Q. Whatwouldyoucallit?
20A.Idontknow.
21ItwastransferredtoeliminatedebtsothatI
22didnthavethedebtonmeanylonger,anditwasfor
23estateplanningandtaxplanning,both.Itwasfora
24multitudeofreasons.
25SoIcantsaythatitsonlyestateplanning.I
70
-
1thinkyoudhavetolookatthelegalramificationsof
2that,so
--
3Q. Iintendto,butIjustthoughtIdgetyour
4knowledge.
SYoumentionedthat youmentionedtheworddebt
SasitrelatedtothepropertyinBroadBeach.
7AndwhatdebtwasonthepropertyonBroadBeach,to
8yourrecollection?
9A.Idontremember.
--
10Q. Wastherealoanontheproperty?
11A.Idontrememberspecifically.Therewasdebt
12onit.Idontrememberifitwasaloan,what
--
13Q. Weretheretaxliensontheproperty?
14A.Idontknow.
15Q. Weretherejudgmentliensontheproperty?
16A.Idontknow.
17Q. Whenthepropertywassold,didthedebtthat
18existedontheproperty excuseme.Strikethat.
19 When the property was sold, when the debt that you
20 mentioned whatever it was was the debt satisfied when
21thepropertywassold?
22A.ImnotsureIknowwhatyouretalkingabout,
23andImnotsurethatIknowtheanswertothatquestion.
24Q. Letsnarrowitdown.
25Thevehicleinwhichyoutransferredtheproperty
71
--
--
--
1subsequentlysoldtheproperty?
2A.Yes.
3Q. Thevehiclewascreated
4A.Itwasalimited what limited
5partnershipiswhatitwentinto.Itwentintoalimited
Spartnership.
--
--
--
7Q. Canyourecallthenameofthelimited
8partnership?
9A.MalibuBroadBeachL.P.
10Q. WasthereageneralpartnerofMalibuBroad
11BeachL.P.?
12A.Imsuretherewas.Doesnttherehavetobe
13one?Idontknow.
14Q. Doyourecallthenameofthegeneralpartner
15ofMalibuBroadBeachL.P.?
16A.No.
17Q. WereyouthegeneralpartnerofMalibuBroad
18Beachinthelimitedpartnership?
19A.No.
20Q. WereyoualimitedpartnerofMalibuBroad
21Beach,thelimitedpartnership?
22A.No.
23Q. Sooncethepropertywastransferredbyyouto
24MalibuBroadBeachpartnership,youretainedpersonallyno
25ownershipinterestinit?
72
-
1A.Thatscorrect.
2Q. Did,youlivethereafteritwastransferredto
3theMalibuBroadBeachlimitedpartnership?
4A.No.Istayedtheresometimelater,butnot
5whenit. wastransferred.
6Q. Didyoustaytherebeforeitwastransferred?
7A.Idontknow.Idont no.
--
8Q. Whatsortofbuildingswereonthatproperty?
9A.Itwasahouse,arentalhouse.
10Q. Sowhenyouownedit,yourentedthehouse
11Out?
12A.Imtryingtoremember.Icantbesureabout
13that.Its solongago.
14Q. Diditremainarentalhouseafteritwas
15transferredtoMalibuBroadBeachL.P.?
16A.IthinkyoudhavetotalktoMalibuBroad
17BeachL.P.aboutanythinghavingtodowiththeirbusiness
18becauseIdontownanyaspectofit.
19Q. WhowouldItalkto?
20A.Idontknow.
21Q. WouldMr.Praskeknow?
22A.Perhaps.
23Q. ButyoudoknowthatMalibuBroadBeachL.P.
24sold.thatproperty?
25A.Yes.
73
-
1+ Q. Andwhenthepropertywassold,wasthere
2stilldebtattachedtotheproperty?
3A.IthinkthatMalibuBroadBeachL.P.isan
4entitythatIhavenoownershipinterest,andsoany
5questionsthatyouhaveforMalibuBroadBeachL.P.Ithink
6youllhavetotakeupwiththatentityandwiththeir
7attorneysbecauseIthinkthattheyreentitledtoprivacy,
8andIdontwanttobeheldresponsibleorliablefor
9disclosingthingsthatmightotherwisebeprivatetothem.
10MR.HARRIS:Basedonthefactthatinformationis
11beingsoughtabouta financialinformationrelatingto
12thirdpartiesandnotthedebtorsassets,Imobjectingon
13thegroundsthattheresaconstitutionalrighttoprivacy
14thathastobeassertedonbehalfofthosethirdparties
15whoarentpresenthereandinstructingthewitnessnotto
16answer.
17MR.STEIN:Andyoureinstructingthewitnessnot
18toidentifythosethirdparties,aswell?
19THEWITNESS:No,ItoldyouIcouldntidentify
20them.
21YousaidwhoshouldIspeaktoatMBLP.
22AndIsaidIdontknowwhoyouwouldspeakto.
23AndyousaidWouldMr.Praskeknow?
24AndIsaidpossibly.
25MR.STEIN:
74
--
1Q. MBLP,isthatwhatyourefertoitas?
2A.Justparaphraseditforyou.
3Q. Itsanotacommonname?
4A.No.Itwasdifficultformetosaythelong
5version,soIjustparaphraseditforyou.
6Q. Verywell.
7LetmeseeifIcangiveyouwhatIunderstoodyou
8tosay.ThatyouownedthispropertyinBroadBeach.And
9atthetimeyouownedit,therewerecertainobligations
10thatwereattachedtotheproperty.Andthoseobligations
11mayhavebeenabankloan,theymayhavebeenoneormore
12taxliens,theymayhavebeenajudgmentlienbecauseyou
13usedtheworddebtearlier.AndImtryingtodescribe
14whatpossibledebttherecouldbe.
15Doyouknowwhetherthatdebt,whichwasyourdebt
16Imtalkingabout,stillexists?
17A.Youknow,youjustmischaracterizedmy
18testimony.
19Q. Iwasnttryingtomischaracterize.
20A.SoIreallycant well,youdontneedto
21clarifywhatIsaybecausewhatIsayisbeingrecordedso.
--
22MR.HARRIS:Imgoingtoobjectforthepurposeof
23therecord,thatthequestionmischaracterizestheevidence
24andmisstatestheevidenceandalsoassumesfactsnotin
25evidence.
75
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1Butyoucanansweritifyouunderstandit,orif
2youneedittoberephrased,youknow,itcouldbe
3rephrased.
4THEWITNESS:Idpreferthatyourquestionbe
5rephrasedbecauseIdontnecessarilyconcurwiththe
Smannerinwhichyouphrasedthatlastquestion.
7MR.STEIN:
8Q. Doyouunderstandthelastquestion?
9A.No.
10Q. Okay.Youusedtheworddebtbeforein
11connectionwiththepropertyonBroadBeachinMalibu;is
12thatcorrect?
13A.Yes.
14Q. Whatdidyoumeanbytheworddebt?
15A.Loans,Ithink.
16ButImnotsureifitwasaloanbecausewewent
17fromtalkingaboutFirstFederaltothis.AndImnotsure
18iftherewasanactualbankloan.ThatswhatIwas
19thinkinginmymindwhenIsaiddebt.
20Somyanswerearlieronwas,Iwasntsureifitwas
21abankloanonitorif Ijustdontremember.
--
22Q. Okay.Thatsfairenough.
23Doyouknowwhetherthatdebt,whateveritwas,
24stillexists?
25A.Idontunderstandyourquestion.
76
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IQ. Well,yousaidtherewassomedebtonthe
2property.Youwereuncertainwhetheritwasabankloanor
3somethingelse.
4A.Right.
5Q. Buttherewas,infact,somekindofdebt
6relatedtothatproperty?
7A.Ithinkitwasaloan,butImnotpositive.
8Q. Doyouknowwhetherthatdebt
9A.Ithinktherewasaloan.Idontknow
10whetheritwasabankloanorprivateloan.
11AndwhenthepropertywastransferredtoMalibu
12BroadBeachL.P.thedebtwentwiththetransfer.
--
13Q. Right.
14Doyouknowwhetherthatdebtstillexiststoday?
15A.Idont,no.
16Q. Howmuchdidyoureceive?
17A.YoumeanthedebtthatImnotsureexisted?
18Q. No.No.Imaskingyouanotherquestion.
19A.Ijustwanttoclarify.
20Firstofall,IsaidImunsure.SoImnotsure
21whatyourquestionreallyis.
22MR.HARRIS:Youdontknowifitexiststodayorif
23iteverexisted?
24THEWITNESS:Idontknowwhatdebtweretalking
25aboutbecausetheremighthavebeenaloanornotaloan.
77
-
IItsalongtimeagotoremember.
2MR.STEIN:
3Q. Thatsfairenough.
4WhenyoutransferredthepropertytoMalibuBroad
5BeachL.P.,didyoureceiveanymoneyinconsiderationfor
6transferringtheproperty?
7A.Idontthinkso.
8Q. Wereanyofyourpersonaldebtsforgivenasa
9resultofthattransfer?
10A.Ithinktheloansordebtthatwasonthe
11property theloans,iftherewas letsjustcall
12it letsassumetherewasaloanonitbecauseIthink
13therewas,butIdontknow,again,ifitwasprivateor
14institutional.Andthatloanonthepropertywas
15transferredtoMalibuBroadBeachL.P.,soitwasnolonger
16myloan.
--
--
--
17Q. Youwerenolongerliableforthatloan?
18A.Correct.
19Q. Butyoureceivednocash?
20A.Idontrememberexactly.
21Q. Didyoureceiveanyotherpropertyin
22exchange?
23A.Idontthinkso.
24Q. Didyoureceiveanythingtangible,personal
25property,books,furniture,carswhenthatpropertywas
78
-
1transferredbyyoutoMalibuBroadBeachlimited
2partnership?
3A.Idonrtrememberspecifically.Idontthink
4so.
SQ. DoyourecallanentityentitledFamily
6LimitedPartnership?
7A.No.
8Q. Areyouin doyouownanypropertyinOjai,
9California?
10A.No.
--
11Q. Doesanybusinessthatyouareassociatedwith
12inanyfashionownpropertyinOjai,California?
13A.No.
14Q. Doyouhaveabusinessventurewith
15ArnoldSchwarzeneggerrelatedtopropertyinOjai,
16California.
17DoyouknowArnoldSchwarzenegyer?
18A.Yes.
19Q. Haveyoubeeninanybusinessventureswith
20ArnoldSchwarzenegger?
21A.No.
22Q. Ever?
23A.No.
24Q. Sotheresnopartnershipwith
25ArnoldSchwarzenegger?
79
-
1A.Isthatabusinessventure?
2Q. Imaskingyouanotherquestion.
3A.Youreaskingmeredundantquestions.
4Q. Well,Imentitled.
5A.Toacertainextent.
6Q. Isthereapartnershipwith
7Mr.Schwarzenegger?
8A.No.
9Q. TherewasalawsuitentitledZitnick,
10ZITNICK,FamilyTrustversusBlanchardGaggerothat
11wasLosAngelesSuperiorCourtcasenumberBC107263.
12Doyourememberthatlawsuit?
13A.Vaguely.
14Q. Whatdoyouvaguelyremember?
15A.Thatitexisted.
16Q. ThatyouweresuedbytheZitnickFamily
17Trust?
18A.Yes.
19Q. Andtheyobtainedajudgmentagainstyou?
20A.Yes.
21Q. Wasthatjudgmenteversatisfied,paidoff?
22A.Idontrememberwhichjudgmentitwas.There
23wereseveral.Ithinktherewereseverallawsuitswiththe
24Zitnicks.Totellyouthetruth,Idontknow.
25Q. DoyoupresentlyowetheZitnicksanymoney?
80
-
1A.Idontthinkso,butIdontknow.
2Q. DoyouhaveanyclaimsagainsttheZitnicksat
3thistime?
4A.Idontknow.Thatsalegalquestion.
SQ. Areyoupursuingalawsuitagainstthe
6Zitnicksatthistime?
7A.No.
8Q. WhoisLeonoraBlanchard?
9A.Idontknow.
10Q. Haveyoueverownedallorpartofanairplane
11thatiskeptattheSantaMonicaAirport?
12A.No.
13Q. Didanybusinessthatyouwereeverapartyto
14ownallorpartofanairplanelocatedattheSantaMonica
15Airport?
16A.Imnotsure.
17Q. Isthereanydocumentthatexiststhatmight
18refreshyourrecollectiononthatsubject?
19A.Imnotsure.
20Q. Didyoueverownaboatorawatervesselthat
21waslocatedinMarinadelRey?
22A.Yes.
23Q. Whendidyouownaboatthatwaslocatedin
24MarinadelRey?
25A.Longtimeago.Idontremember.
81
-
1Q. Morethanfiveyearsago?
2A.Ithinkso.
3Q. Morethantenyearsago?
4A.Imnotsurewhen.
SQ. Whattypeofboatwasit?
6A.Itwasafishingboat.
7Q. Andhowlargewasit?
8A.Thirtytwofeet.
9Q. Andwhatbecameofthatboat?
10A.ItsinVentura.
11Q. Doyouownitatthepresenttime?
12A.No.
13Q. Didyousellit?
14A.No.
15Q. Didyougiveitaway?
16A.No.
17Q. Thenhowisitthatyounolongerownit?
18A.Becauseitwasowned Ionlyownedapartof
19itoriginally.
--
20Q. Doyouownanypartofitatthepresenttime?
21A.Imnotsure.
22Q. Whoelseownsapartofit?
23A.Idontrememberthenameoftheperson.
24Q. Whatsthenameoftheboat?
25A.TheUniflight.
82
-
1Q. Thatsthemanufactureroftheboat,
2Uniflight.
3Doyourememberthenameofboatatthetimeyou
4ownedit?
5A.ItwascalledTheGreatEscape.
SQ. Doyouknowwhetheritisstillcalled
7TheGreatEscape?
8A.Ithinkitis.
9Q. Andhowisitthatyouknowthatitssituated
10inVentura?
11A.Ijustknowthatswhereitis.
12Q. Andwhatfactsleadyoutoknowthatits
13situatedinVentura?
14Haveyouseenit?
15A.Notrecently.
16Q. Whenwasthelasttimeyousawit?
17A.Idontremember.
18Q. Whenwasthelasttimeyouwereonit?
19A.Alongtimeago.Threeorfiveyearsago.
20Somewherebetween maybelonger,Idontknow.
21Q. Well,youseemverycertainthatitsstillin
22Ventura.
23AreyoucertainthatitsstillinVentura?
24A.Ithinkitis.
25Q. WhoisGaryMueser?
--
83
-
1Imsureaboutthespellingofthat,MUESER.
2A.Idontknow.
3Q. Didyouever doyoueverrecalldrivinga
4vehiclethatscommonlyreferredtoasahumvee,
5HUMVEE?
6A.No.
--
7Q. WhoisJudyRoss?
8A.Idontknow.
9Q. YoudontknowJudyRoss?
10A.No.
11ShouldI?
12Q. Imaskingthequestionshere.
13Doyouhaveapersonalassistantatthistime?
14A.No.
15Q. Doyouhaveasecretarythatworksforyou?
16A.No.
17Q. SulphurMountainLand&LivestockLLC.Does
18atthatnamemeananythingtoyou?
19A.Youhavetobemorespecificwithyour
20question.
21Doesitmeananythingtomeinaromanticway?
22What lettherecordreflectwerelaughing.
23Ijustneedaspecificquestion.
--
24Q. Iveaskedyouaboutthenamesofseveral
25businessentities,andIvestartedmyseriesofquestions
84
-
1withwhetherthatmeansanythingtoyou.Andinalmost
2everyinstanceyouvesaidyesorno.
3MR.HARRIS:Idontrecallthatspecificformof
4questioning,buttherecordwillreflecthoweveryouasked
5thequestions.
6MR.STEIN:
7Q. SonowthereisanentitycalledSulphur
8MountainLand&LivestockLLC.
9Haveyoueverheardofthat?
10A.Yes.
11Q. Whatisthat asidefromalimitedliability
12company,whatisSulphurMountainLand&LivestockLLC?
--
14Q. Well,whatdoyouknowaboutSulphurMountain
15Land&LivestockLLC?
16A.Thatitsalimitedliabilitycompany.
17Q. Whatelsedoyouknowaboutit?
18A.IknowifyouwanttoaskthingsaboutSulphur
19MountainLand&Livestock,youshouldprobablyaskSulphur
20MountainLand&andLivestock.
21Idontwanttogetintotroubledivulging
22informationthatmaybeconstruedastheirprivate
23information.
24+ Q. Idliketoknowwhatyouknowaboutit.
25A.AndImtellingyouImnotgogoingtotell
85
-
1youwhatknowledgeIhaveofathirdpartyorentity
2withouttheirattorneyandthembeingpresenttoaskfora
3protectionofthatinformationbeingdisseminated.
4MR.HARRIS:Totheextentthewitnesshasan
5ownershipinterestinthecompany,hecananswerthat
6question.
7Butifhedoesnthaveanownershipinterestinthe
8company,thenIminstructinghimnottoanswerthe
9questiononthegroundsthattheinformationsoughtinvades
10privacyinterestsofthirdpartieswhoarenotpresenthere
11atthedeposition.Andbaseduponthat,hedbeinstructed
12nottoanswer.
13THEWITNESS:AndIdonothaveanownership
14interest.
15MR.STEIN:
16Q. Didyoueverhaveanownershipinterestin
17SulphurMountainLand&Livestockcompany?
18A.Imnotsure.
19Q. Whatcouldyoulookatorreviewthatmightor
20mightnotchangeyouranswerinthatregard?
21A.Idontknow.
22Q. HowisitthatyouhaveheardofSulphur
23MountainLand&LivestockLLC?
24A.Ihaveheardofit.
25Q. How?
86
-
1A.Idontknowthat.Thatmightbeprivileged.
2Imnotsure.
3Q. Didyouhearaboutitontelevision?
4A.No.
5Q. Didyouhearaboutitontheradio?
6A.No.
7Q. Didyoureadaboutitthenewspaper?
8A.No.
9Q. Didsomebodyinabartellyouaboutit?
10A.No.
11Q. Didafriendofyourstellyouaboutit?
13Q. Whatpartofthequestiondontyou
14understand?
15A.Well,ifyouretalkingaboutdiscussionswith
16friendsabouttheentity,yes,Ivehaddiscussionswith
17friendsabouttheentity.Andthosediscussionsmaybe
18privileged,asIhavenoownershipinterestinit.
19Q.Whodoesownit?
20A.Imnotsure.
21AndIdontknowthatthatinformationissomething
22thatsnecessarilyyouraffair.Itmaybe,butIdont
23thinkbecauseIdontownit
--
24Q. Whodoesownit?
25A.ImnotsurethatIknow.
87
HUTCIIINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
-
1Ivealreadyansweredthatquestion,soImnot
2going
3MR.STEIN:Areyougoingtoinstructhim?
4MR.HARRIS:Isyouransweryourenotsurethatyou
5know?
6THEWITNESS:MyansweristhatImnotabsolutely
7certain,asIsitheretoday.AndifIwascertain,I
8wouldnttellyoubecauseitsdisclosingprivate
9informationfromathirdparty.
10MR.HARRIS:Hesayshedoesntknowtheanswerto
11thequestion.
12THEWITNESS:Imnotexactlysure.
13MR.HARRIS:Imnotgoingtoinstructhimifhe
14doesntevenknowtheanswertothequestion.
15MR.STEIN:
--
16Q. Wellwhodoyouthinksownsit?
17MR.HARRIS:Callsforspeculation.
18MR.STEIN:Areyougoingtoinstructhimnotto
19answer?
20THEWITNESS:Imnotgoingtospeculate.
21MR.STEIN:
22Q. Imnotaskingyoutospeculate.
23Whodoyouthinkownsit?
24A.Imnotgoingtospeculatesinceitsnot
25mine.
88
-
1Itsspeculation Imsorry.
2Whatdidyousay?
--
3Q. Goahead.Finish.Imsorrytointerrupt
4you.
5A.Imthrough.
6MR.HARRIS:Ifhedoesntownitandhedoesnt
7knowwhoownsit,anytestimonyaboutwhohethinksowns
8it youknow,itcantpossiblytoleadtodiscoveryof
9informationabouthisassets.
10MR.STEIN:Iwonder.
--
11Q. Yourenotsurewhetheryoueverownedanyof
12SulfurMountainLand&LivestockLLC;isthatcorrect?
13A.Wasthatmytestimony?
14Q. Imaskingyouaquestion.
15A.Wasthataquestion?Ithoughtitwasa
16statement.
17Q. No,itwasaquestion.
18A.Imsorry.Itdidntsoundlikeaquestion.
19ImnotsureifIdidornot.
20Q. Andifyoudid,whenmightyouhavehadany
21ownershipinSulphurMountainLand&LivestockLLC?
22A.Idontknow.
23Q. HaveyoueverdoneanyworkforSulphur
25A.Im notsure.
89
-
1Q. WereyoueverpaidanythingbySulphur
3A.Imnotsure.
4Q. Youdontknow?Youdontremember?
5A.Imnotsure.
6Q. Whatdoesthatmean,exactly?
7A.Getadictionary,Isuppose.
8Q. Whatdoesthatmeantoyou?
9A.Imnotsure.
10Q. Itmeansitspossiblethatyouwerepaid
11somethingbySulphurMountainLand&Livestock?
12MR.HARRIS:Anythingispossible.
13MR.STEIN:Hesnotsure.
14Imtryingtopinitdownalittlebit.Im
15entitledtothat.
16THEWITNESS:Imjustnotsure.
17MR.STEIN:
18Q. Andwhowouldhaveinformationthatwould
19allowmetofindoutwhetheryouwereeverpaidanythingby
20SulphurMountainLand&LivestockLLC.
21MR.HARRIS:Callsforspeculation.Youcananswer
22ityouknow.
23THEWITNESS:Idontknow.
24MR.STEIN:
25Q. WouldMr.Waltershaveinformationinthat
90
1regard?
2A.Idontthinkso.
3Q. WouldMr.Praskehaveinformationinthat
4regard?
5A.Idontthinkso.
6Q. WouldSulphurMountainLand&Livestockhave
7informationinthatregard?
8A.Idontknow.
9+ Q. DoyouknowwhetherSulphurMountainLand&
10LivestockLLCownsanyrealproperty?
11A.Imnotgoingtoansweranyquestionsabout
12SulphurMountainLand&LivestockcompanybecauseIdont
13knowwhoownsit.
14+ Q. Doyouknowwhetheritownsanyrealproperty
15ornot?
16A.IfIdidknow,Iwouldntgiveyouthat
17informationwithoutthemandtheirattorneyspresentto
18defendtheirrighttoprivacy.
19MR.HARRIS:Okay.Totheextentheknowsany
20informationaboutthatcompanysownershipofrealproperty
21andsincehehasnoownershipinterestinthatcompany,Im
22instructinghimnottoanswerthatquestionbecauseit
23invadestheprivacyinterestsofthirdpartieswhoarent
24hereatthisdeposition.
25MR.STEIN:
91
-
1Q. DoyoupresentlydoanyconsultingforSulphur
3A.Yes.
4Q. Andwhatsortofconsultingdoyoudofor
5SulphurMountainLand&LivestockLLC?
6A.Itdepends.Icantthinkofanythingright
7now,butitwoulddepend.
8Q. Whatwoulditdependon?
9A.Theydhavetohaveaskmetodosomething.
10+ Q. Whatwasthemostrecentthingthatyou
11consultedforSulphurMountainLand&LivestockLLC?
12A.Idontthinkthatthatisinformationthat
13theywouldwantdivulged,soIwouldaskthattheybeprivy
14tothisquestionandbeallowedtoanswerthequestionif
15theywouldliketo.
16MR.HARRIS:Couldyoureadbackthelastquestion.
18MR.HARRIS:Canyougivejustageneral
19description?
20THEWIThESS:Theyreanongoingbusiness,and
21theywantedmetoconsultinthosebusinessaffairs,but
22theirbusinessaffairsareprivate.
23MR.STEIN:
24Q. Soyourenotgoingtotellmewhatsortof
25workthatyoudidforSulphurMountainLand&Livestock
92
-
1LLC?
2A.Ididntsayitwaswork.IsaidIdid
3consulting.
4Q. Doyoudifferentiateconsultingbetween
5work?
6A.Imnotsure,butIwanttopreservemyright
7incaseyoutryandtwistittobesomethingitsnot.
8Q.Imnottryingtotwistanything.
9A.Iunderstand.Butyouretryingtoget
10informationaboutentitiesthatarentme.
11Soifyouwanttogetinformationaboutentities
12thatarentme,Isuggestyougoandtrytogetinformation
13fromthoseentitiesandleavemeoutofitbecauseIdont
14wanttobeinanytroubleoverit.
15Q.DoesSulphurMountainLand&LivestockLLCowe
16youanymoney?
17A.No.
18Q.DoessulfurMountainLand&LivestockLLCowe
19anybusinessentitythatyouare thatyoucontrolany
20money?
21A.No,notthatIknowof.
22Q.Doyoucontrolanybusinessentity,beita
23partnership,corporationorotherwise?
24MR.HARRIS:Justobjectonthegroundsitsvague
25andambiguous.Alsocallsforlegalconclusionandcalls
93
--
-.
1forspeculation.
2Butyoucananswerifyouunderstand.
3THEWITNESS:Firstofall,Idontunderstandwhat
4youmeanbycontrol.
5MR.STEIN:
6Q. Whatdoyouthinkthewordcontrolmeans?
7A.Ineedyoutodefinethatforme.Itsnotmy
8responsibilitytobreakyourquestionsdown.Ineedyouto
9bemorespecificonwhatitisyoureaskingmesoIcan
10trytogiveyoumybestanswer.
11Q. Youdontunderstandmyquestion?
12A.No.Ithinkitsvague.
13Q. Areyouthepresidentofanycorporation?
14A.Ithinkwevealreadydiscussedthatweknow
15thatImthepresident,Ithink,ofAvalon,andImnot
16sureaboutClipper.
17Q. Areyoupresidentofanyothercorporation?
18A.Idontthinkso.
19Q. Areyouthegeneralpartnerofany
20partnership,beitalimitedpartnershiporgeneral
21partnership?
22A.Idontthinkso.
23Q. Areyouamemberofanylimitedliability
24corporationbesidesGenova?
25MR.HARRIS:Genova.
94
-
1MR.STEIN:
2Q. GenovaSunset,Ithinkitwascalled.
3A.Idontthinkso,butImnotsure.
4Q. Areyouamemberofanylimitedliability
5partnership?
6A.Idontthinkso.
7Q. Haveyousetup haveyoucausedtobe
Sformed,bythatImeanhiringsomeoneordoingityourself,
9anycorporationinthelastfiveyears?
10A.Idontknow.
11Q.Onanaverage,howmuchmoneydoyouearneach
12monthforthelast12months?
13A.$3,000.
14Q.Andwhatisthesourceofthatmoney?
15A.Myconsultingwork.
16Q.Andwouldallofthemoney fromthesource
17ofthatmoney,wouldallofthatmoneybedepositedinthe
18bankaccountforwhichyouhaveprovidedmeadocument?
19A.Notnecessarily.
--
--
20Q. Whereelsewouldthemoneygothatyoureceive
21foryourconsultingwork?
22A.Iwouldspendittolive.
23Q. Well,isitallpaidtoyouintheformof
24cashorintheformofcheck?
25A.Ithinkyouaskedmethatquestionbefore.
95
-
1Itvaries.
2Q.Itvaries.
3Sosomepeoplepayyouincash?
4A.No,Idontknow.Maybetheydo.Idhaveto
5thinkaboutit.
6Whatsthetime?
7Q.Last12months.
8A.Idontknow.
9Icantrememberifsomebodyhaspaidmecashinthe
10last12months.Idontthinkso.
11Q. Sowhenyougetacheck,doyoualwaysdeposit
12thecheckintheFrontierBank Jackson Imsorry.
13lostthenameoftheentity.
14THEWITNESS:Goaheadandlookthatup.
15MR.STEIN:Whydontwegoofftherecordandtake
16abreak.
18MR.STEIN:Canyoureadbackthelastquestion
19beforewetookabreak.
21MR.STEIN:
22Q.Whenyougetacheckinthelast12months,
23letslimittoitthattimeframe,doyoualwaysdeposit
24thecheckintheJacksonFederalBank?
25A.No.
96
--
--
1Q. Doyoudepositthecheckinanyotherbanking
2orsavingsandloaninstitution?
3A.No,Idont.
4Q. Doyoucashthechecks?
5A.Sometimes.
6Q. Sometimesyoudepositthechecks,and
7sometimesyoucashthechecks?
8A.Thatscorrect.
9Q. Doyoudoanythingelsewiththechecks?
10A.Likewhat?
11Q. Endorsethemovertoathirdparty?
12A.IdontknowifIdoornot.Idontknowif
13Ihaveinthelast12monthsdonethat.Itsnotanormal
14practice.IjustdontknowifIhaveornot.
15Q. Ifyougetpaidforconsultingservices,
16youlleitherputthemoneyinJacksonFederalBank,or
17youllcashthecheck?
18A.Thosearetwooptions.
19Q. Arethereanyothers?
20A.Idontknow.
21Q. Whowouldknow?
22A.Idontknow.
23Q. Isthereanyonethathandlesyourmoneyfor
24youbesidesyou?
25A.No.Ihandlemymoney.
97
HtJTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
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1Q. WhopaysthatVISABill?
2A.PacificCoastManagementpaysit.
3Q. PacificCoastManagementpaysyourpersonal
4expensesincurredonthatVISAbill?
5A.Sometimes.Thentheylldeductitfromthe
6$3,000,ortheywont,andIllpaythemseparately.
7Q. Soyoureceive$3,000amonthfromPacific
8CoastManagement?
9A.Theylldeductitfrom$3,000.
10Q. Butyourregularincomeonamonthlybasis
11withinthelast12monthsfromPacificCoastManagementis
12$3,000amonth?
13A.Imnotsureifitseverymonthornot.
14Howmanymonthsdidyousay?
15Q. Twelve?
16A,Imnotsureaboutthat.
17Q. Howaboutthelastsix?
18A.Imnotpositive.
19Q.Howaboutsincethebeginningoftheyear?
20A.Imnotsure.
211thinkitsbeenthat.
22Q. Howmuchdidyoureceivefromtheminthe
23monthofMayof2001?
24A.When?2001?
25Q. Yes,thisyear.
101
-
1A.Ithink$3,000.
2Q. Haveyoureceivedanymoneyfromthemforthe
3monthofJune2001?
4A.Imnotsure.
5Q. DotheymakedirectdepositsintoJackson
6FederalBankonyourbehalf?
7A.Sometimes.
8Q. Theygiveyoucheckssometimes?
9A.Theygivemecheckssometimes.
10Q. Dotheygiveyoucashsometimes?
11A.No.
12Q. Buttheincomethatyoureceive,then,is
13reasonablyregularonamonthlybasisoverthecourseof
14thelast12monthsfromPacificManagement?
15A.Thatsavaguequestion.
16Idontknowwhatyourinterpretationofreasonably
17regularmeans.
18Q. Youvesaidyoureceiveapproximately$3,000a
19monthfromPacificManagement.
20A.Thatscorrect.
21Q. Andthatsbeengoingonforaboutthelast12
22months?
23A.Idontknowthattobethecase.
24Q. Thatsbeengoingonforlongerthan12
25months?
102
-
1A.Imnotsure.
2Q. Doyouhaveacheckregisterforyourbank
3accountatJacksonFederalBank?
4A.YoumeanwhenIenterthechecksIwrote,yes.
SQ.Doesanyoneelseenterinformationonthat
6checkregisteronyourbehalf?
7A.No.
8Q.Doyouhaveacomputerprograminwhichyou
9keeptrackofchecksthatyouhavewrittenonJackson
10FederalBank?
11A.No.
12Q. Areyouasignatoryofanyotherbankaccount?
13Forexample,canyousignchecksonanyotherbank
14accountbesidestheJacksonFederalBankaccount?
15A.IthinkIcansignonAvalon,onAvalons
16checkingaccount.
17Q. DoesAvalonhaveacheckingaccount?
18A.Yes.
19Q. Isthereanymoneyinit?
20A.Well,sinceImnottheownerofAvalon,I
21thinkthatsprivateinformation,andthatssomethingthat
22Avalonandyoucantakeup.
23Q. Imnotclearexactly,andIdontrecall.
24Iveaskedalotofquestions.
25Doyoupresentlyhaveanyownershipinterestin
103
1IUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
-
1Avalonwhatsoever?
2A.Youhaveaskedthatquestion,andItoldyou
3Imnotashareholderofthatanymore.
4Q. DoyouownanyotherinterestinAvalonaside
5fromtheinterestofashareholder?
6A.Idontunderstandwhatthatwouldbe.
7Q. HaveyoulentanymoneytoAvalonforwhich
8theyareobligatedtopayyouback?
9A.Idontknow.
10Q. Doyouholdanysecurityinterestsinanyof
11Avalonsassets?
12A.Idontknow.Idontreallyknowwhatthat
13means,really.
14IdontknowthatAvalonhasanyassets,firstof
15all,andsothequestionispuzzlingtome.
16Q. InMarchof1998,March19thofthatyear,
17exactly,yousignedagrantdeedtransferringyourinterest
18toGingerbreadCourtL.P.acertainparcelofproperty.
19Imgoingtoshowyouadocumentthatsentitled
20GrantDeed.Illaskthecourtreportertomakeitpartof
21therecord.
22Itis intheupperrighthandcorner,ithasa
23number98461443.Itbearsasignatureabovealinewith
24thetypednameStephenM.Gaggero.
25MR.HARRIS:Isthatgoingtobemarkedasa
104
HtJTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 80O.97.321Q
--
--
1MR.STEIN:Asthenextexhibitinorder.
2Idonthaveanadditionalcopy,Imafraid.
3MR.HARRIS:Okay.Whatexhibitwillthatbe?
4THEREPORTER:2.
5MR.STEIN:
6Q. Mr.Gaggero,thisisExhibit2.Itsagrant
7deed.
8Doyourecallseeingthatdocumentbeforetoday?
9A.Yes.
10Q. Onthelower inthemiddleofthedocument
--
11thereappearstobeasignatureabovealinethatstyped
12StephenM.Gaggero.
13Doyourecognizethatsignature?
14A.Yes.
15Q. Isthatyoursignature?
16A.Yes.
17Q. Doyourecallwhatpieceofpropertyor
18propertiesthatgrantdeedrelatedto?
19A.517OceanFrontWalk.
20Q. Andtheproperty,thedocumentreflectsthat
21itwastransferredtoGingerbreadCourtL.P.;isthat
22correct?
23A.Thatswhatitlookslikeitsaysthere.
24Q. Thanks.
25HowmuchwereyoupaidbyGingerbreadCourtforthe
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Ipropertythatyoutransferredbythisdocument?
2A.IdontknowthatIwaspaidanymoney.
3Q. Youdontknow,oryouwereorwerenot?
4A.Idontremember.Itwassolongago.
SQ. Itwasaboutthreeyearsago.
6Youdontremember?
7A.That salongtimeago.
8Q. Howmuchwhatwastheproperty whatwas
9onthepropertythatyoutransferred?
--
1].Q. Wasthereahouseontheproperty?
12A.No,thereslittlebuildingsonit.
13Q. Andaretheyresidentialbuildingsor
14commercialbuildings?
15A.Commercialbuildings,littlebungalows.
16Q. Whatsortofbusinesseswereinthose
17commercialbuildingswhenyoutransferredthemto
18GingerbreadCourt?
19A.Retailbusinessesandoffices.
20Q. Didyouhaveanyofficespaceinthose
21properties?
22A.IdontrememberfIdidthenornot.
23Q. Atsomepointintime,didyou?
24A.Yes.
25Q. Whenthispropertywastransferredto
106
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1GingerbreadCourtL.P.,didyouhaveanyownershipinterest
2inGingerbreadCourt?
3A.Imnotsure.Imighthave.
4Q. Whatisitinyourmindthatyouthinkthe
5interestwas?
6A.Idonttremember.Iwasmaybe Idont
7know.Imspeculating.
--
8Q. Youthinkittspossiblethatatthetimeyou
9hadsomeinterest ownershipinterestinGingerbread
10CourtL.P.?
11A.Imnotsure.Anythingispossibleas
12Mr.Harrissaidearlier.ButImjustnotsure.
--
13Q. Andyoudontrecallreceivinganymoneyfor
14transferringthepropertytoGingerbreadCourtlimited
15partnership?
16A.No.
17Q. Whydidyoutransferthepropertyto
18GingerbreadCourt?
19A.Forpartoftheestateandtaxplanningand
20fortheobligationofadebtthatwasonit,todivest
21myselfoftheobligationofthebankloansandtheother
22loans.
23Q. Whatotherloans?
24A.Idontknowthattherewas.
25Imjust again,Imtryingtogiveyoua
107
--
1catchallbecauseyouweresokeenonquestioningallaround
2thatareaonBroadBeach.
3Soonthisone,Idontknowwhattheloansordebt
4oranythingwasonthispropertywhenitwastransferred.
SIdontrememberrightnow.Butbytransferringitto
6GingerbreadCourtalongwiththat,IassumeI transferred
7myobligation,mypersonalobligation,onanyloansthat
8wereontheproperty.
9Q. DoyourecallwhethertheloantoFirst
10FederalBankwasonthatproperty?
11A.Whichloan?
12Q. Strikethat.
13DoyourecallwheninMarchof1998,whenyou
14transferredthepropertyyouvedescribedtoGingerbread
15CourtL.P.,didFirstFederalBankhavealoanonthat
16property?
17A.Yes.
18Q. Didyouremainobligatedonthatloanafter
19youtransferredtheproperty?
20A.Idontthinkso.
21Q. DidFirstFederalBanklooktoyoutomake
22paymentsontheloanafterthepropertywastransferred?
23A.Idontknowwhatyoumeanbythat.
24Q. DidanybodyfromFirstFederalBankcallyou
25upafterMarchof1998andsay,Mr.Gaggero,youoweus
108
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moneyontheloanonthepropertythatwassubjecttothis
transfer?
A.Idontrememberanysuchphonecall.
Q.Didyoueverhaveapersontopersonconversationwherein
thattopicwasdiscussedwithanyonefromFirstFederal
Bank?
A.Thetopic?
Q.Oftheobligationoftheloanthatwasonthe
Q.DidFirstFederalBankforecloseitslienontheproperty
thatwastransferredtoGingerbreadCourt?
A.Theytriedto.
Q.Weretheysuccessful?
A.No.
Q.Andthatwaspartandparcelofthelawsuitthatyou
filedagainstFirstFederalBank?
A.Yes.
Q.LetstalkaboutthejudgmentintheFirstFederalBank
case.
Areyouentitledtoreceivethemoneyfromthat
A.Idontknow.
Q.Whoisentitledtoreceivethemoneyfromthat
109
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9property?
10A.YouhaveCobemorespecificwithyour
11question.
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23judgment?
24
25
-
judgment?
A.Idontknowthatanybodyisentitledtoreceivethe
moneyfromthejudgment.
Q.Areyouawarethattherehasbeenamoneyjudgment
enteredinyourfavorinthatcase?
A.Yes.
Q.Doyouknowroughlyapproximatelyhowmuch
thatmoneyjudgmentis?
A.
Q.
A.
Q.
yousuffered
Bank?
15A.Correct.About200somethousanddollars,I
16think.
Q.Wereyoupresentwhenthejuryenteredits
verdictinthatcase?
19A.Yes.
20Q.Doyourecallhowmuchthejuryverdictwasin
21yourfavor?
A.Ithinkitwasaround$200,000.
Q.AndletmeaskyouaboutacompanycalledIDC.
Haveyoueverheardofsuchanentity?
A.Yes.
110
1
2
3
4
S
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
No.
Youwereawitnessatthatcase,yes?
Yes.
Andyoupresentedevidenceastodamagesthat
asaresultoftheactionsofFirstFederal
17
18
22
23
24
25
-
1Q. WhatisIDC?
2A.Idontknow.
3Q. Whatisitsrelationshiptoyou,itany?
4A.Itboughttherightstomylawsuits.
5Q. Whichlawsuits?
6A.Idontrememberspecifically,butFirst
7Federalisoneofthem,andStacyisoneofthemand
Syeah.
--
9Q. Anyothers?
10A.Idontremember.
11Q. Howdidtheybuyyourrightsinthatcase?
12A.$200,000itwastosettleyourcase.
13Actually,beforeyoucameonboardandonelawyer
14thatwasrepresenting thelawyerthatusedtorepresent
15yourclients,theysettledout.
16AndthenGoldwitzandStein thatsthetimeI
17toldyouSchleinsaidthathedidnthaveanyinterestin
18thecaseanylonger,andherdassignedallhisrightsover
19toGoldwitz
20Andthenthebalanceof$200,000 Iforgethow
21muchexactly wasdeclinedbySteinandGoldwitz,andso
22Igaveittoanattorneyforattorneyfees.
--
--
--
--
23Q. Whichattorneydidyougiveitto?
24A.Bezek,BEZEK.
25Q. Doyouknow strikethat.
111
--
1DoyouknowwhatIDCstandsfor?
2A.No,IdontthinkIdo.Icant Imayhave
3known,butIdontknowasIsitheretoday.
--
4Q. Doyouhaveanydocumentsrelatingtotheloan
5thatyoureceivedfromIOC?
6MR.HARRIS:Imjustgoingtoobjectonthegrounds
7thatitmisstatestheevidence,assumesfactsnotin
8evidencebythecharacterizationofaloan.
10THEWITNESS:Wheredidyou wheredidyouget
11thatitsaloan?Isaidtheyboughtmyinterest.
12MR.STEIN:
--
13Q. HowdidyoucomeintocontactwithIDC?
14A.AmanIknowinPrague,ChecRepublic
15Prague,youknow.
--
16Q. Iveheardofit.
17A.Youhadaglazedlookaboutyou.
18Q. Iwaswaitingforyoutofinishyouranswer.
19A.Ifinishedit.
20Q. WhatisthemansnameinPrague?
21A.RobertShelburg.
22Q. DoesheresideinPrague?
23A.Yes.
24Q. Howdidyouspellhislastname?
25A.Idontknow.
112
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1Q. Doyouhaveanydocumentsthatmightindicate
2hisaddressand/ortelephonenumber?
3A.Imnotsure.
4Q. HowisitthatyouknowRobertShelburg?
SA.ImethiminArgentinamanyyearsago.
6Q. Andyouveremainedincontacteversince?
7A.Fromtimetotime.
8Q. Didyoucontacthiminafashiontoleadupto
9IDCpurchasingyourrightsinseveraljudgments?
10A.Idontreallyrememberwhocontactedwho,and
11Idontreallycompletelyunderstandyourquestion,so
--
12Q. Well,somehowyourtestimonyisthatbC
13advanced$200,000inexchangeforwhateverrightsyoumight
14haveinseverallawsuits.
15Isthatafaircharacterizationofthetransaction?
16A.IthinkIcharacterizeditalreadyinmy
17testimony.Idontthinkyouneedrecharacterizeit.
18Sowhatsyourquestion?
19Q. ImtryingtodothissoIunderstand.
20A.Whydontyouaskmeaquestionaboutwhatyou
21dontunderstand.
22Q. DidIDCadvance$200,000inexchangeforyour
23rightsinseverallawsuits?
24A.Theyboughtmyrighttoseverallawsuits.
25Q. Andamongtherightsthattheypurchased,they
113
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1purchasedtherightintheFirstFederalBankcase?
2A.Thatscorrect.
3Q. Andtheypurchasedtheright
4A.BothFirstFederalBankcases.
--
5Q. BothFirstFederal
6A.Becausetheyhaveajudgmentagainstme,as
7well,youunderstand,FirstFederal.
--
8Q. Imawareofthat,yes.
9Andhowmuchisthejudgmentthattheyhaveagainst
10you?
11A.Idontremember.
12Q. Roughly?
13A.Idontremember.
14Q. Whentheypurchasedyourrightstothe
15judgmentagainstShermanStacy
16A.Yes.Well,theydidnt.Theypurchasedthe
--
17rightsinthecase.
18AndwhetherornottheShermanStacycaseisgoing
19tobe willultimatelybearfruitornot,whoknows.
20Becauseitsuponappealandwhetherornotitwouldbe
21wonattrial.
22Sotheypurchasedtherights,astheydidwithFirst
23Federal,longagowhenthesecaseshadnothadajudgment.
--
24Q. Whendidtheypurchasetherights?
25A.WhenIwasatthedebtorsexamwith
114
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1BarryFisher,whowasoneofthedefendantsinthissubject
2case.
3Q. Andwhowasconductingthedebtorsexam?
4A.JudgeBerrerawasthejudge,andthenyoumean
5thelawyerforBarryFisher?Iforgothisname.
6Q. Salzburg?
7A.Yeah,thatsit.
8Q. Doyourecallwhenthatwas?
9A.No.Twoorthreeyearsago.
10Q. WhofirstreceivedthemoneyfromIDC,the
11$200,000?
12Didyoureceivethemoney?
13A.Idontremember.
14Q. DidPeteBezekreceivethemoney?
15A.ItmighthavegonetoPeteBezektrust
16account.Imnotsure.Idhavetothinkaboutit.Im
17notsure.
18Q. Didyousignanydocumentsthatreflectthe
19transactionbetweenyourselfandIDC?
20A.Yes,IthinkIdid.
21Q. Andwhohasthosedocuments?
22A.Imnotsure.
23Ilookedforthem,andIcouldntfindthem.But
24maybeIDCslawyershavecopies.
25Q. DoyouknowwhoIDCslawyersare?
115
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1A.Idontknowallofthem,no.
2Q. Anyofthem?
3A.Well,IknowthatMr.Garciaisworkingwith
4themfromKPC,butIdontknowifhesthelawyeronan
Songoingbasis.Imnotsure.
6Q. YoudontknowwhetherMr.Garciarepresents
7IDCornot?
8A.IwouldnTtknow.
9What representstheminwhataction?
--
10Q. Inrelationshiptotheirrightstothese
11severaljudgments.
12A.IthinkheTsincontactwiththem.
13MR.STEIN:Excusemeforamoment.Iapologizefor
14this.
15MR.HARRIS:Offtherecord.
16(Telephonicinterruptionintheproceedings.)
17MR.STEIN:Whydontwejustgobacktowherewe
18werefornow.
20MR.STEIN:Werebackontherecord.
21WeweretalkingaboutMr.Garciabeingincontact
22withmc.Imnotgoingtogetintothat.
23Q. BeforeIDCpurchasedyourrightstothese
24judgments,hadyoudoneanybusinesswithIDC?
25A.No.
116
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1Q. SubsequenttoIDCpurchasingyourrightsin
2thesejudgments,haveyoudoneanybusinesswithIOC?
3A.No.Contemplatingit,butno.
4Q. DoesIDCoweyouanymoney?
5A.No.
6Q. DoyouownanyportionofIDC?
7A.No.
8Q. DoyouknowwhattypeofbusinessentityIDC
9is?
10A.Youalreadyaskedmethatquestioninthe
11beginning,andno,Idont.
12Q. Doyouknowwhetherithasaplaceofbusiness
13withinthestateofCalifornia?
14A.No,Idont.
15Q. Doyouknowifithasaplaceofbusiness
16withintheUnitedStates?
17A.No,Idont.Idont.
18Q. DoyouknowwhetheritsaCaliforniaentity
19atall?
20A.No,Idont.
21Q. Doyouknowwhetheritsanentityofoneof
22theseveraloftheUnitedStates?
23A.Idontevenknowwhatthatmeans,butIknow
24ifyouwanttoaskquestionsaboutIDC,youshouldaskIDC.
25Q. Iwoulddothat,butIdontknowmuchabout
117
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1them.SoImtryingtolearnwhatyouknowaboutIDC.
2A.Isee.
3Q. DoyouknowwhetherIDCisincorporatedinthe
4UnitedStates?
5A.Idontknow.
6Q. Doyouknowwhetheritsincorporatedina
7countryotherthantheUnitedStates?
8A.Iknowthatanyturtherquestionsthatyou
9haveforIDCandaboutIDC,Idontwanttogetinany
10trouble,soIthinkyoushouldasklIZ.
11MR.HARRIS:Doyouknowifitsincorporated
12anywhereintheU.S.?
13THEWITNESS:Iansweredthatquestion.Idont
14know,but
15MR.HARRIS:Sothenyouansweredthatquestion,so
16juststopthere.
17THEWITNESS:IjustwanttosaythatIdontwant
18toansweranymorequestionsaboutIDC.
19YoullhavetoaskIDCbecauseIcant Idont
20wantanyonetoclaimthatIdidsomethingwrongorhad
21exposedinthistestimony,forsomereason,theirprivacy.
22SoIcouldletyoudealwiththemandtheir
23attorneysonanyquestionsyouhaveaboutIDC.
24MR.STEIN:
--
25Q. Myquestiontoyouwaswhetheryouknew
118
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IwhetherIDCwasincorporatedinanycountryotherthanthe
2UnitedStates.
3A.MyanswertoyouisyouwillhavetoaskIDC
4anyquestions anyfurtherquestionsaboutthembecause
5Imuncomfortableansweringanyfurtherquestionsabout
6IDC.
7MR.HARRIS:Ithoughtyousaidyoudontknow
Swhethertheyreincorporatedinanycountryotherthanthe
9UnitedStates.
10THEWITNESS:Idontnecessarilyknowthat.
11MR.HARRIS:Ifyoudontknow,youdontknow.
12Sojustastothatquestion
13THEWITNESS:Idontevenknowiftheresa
14corporation,but
15MR.HARRIS:Sowhydont
16THEWITNESS:Idontwanttotalkaboutthemany
17longer.
18Unlesstheressomethingyouwanttoknowaboutme,
--
--
--
--
19Imhappytotellyou,butsomethingaboutanotherentity,
20Imreluctanttotellyou.
21MR.HARRIS:Astothatparticularquestion,the
22answerwouldbe,Idontknow?
23THEWITNESS:Idontknowiftheyreacorporation.
24MR.STEIN:
25Q. DoyouknowwhattypeofentityIDCis?
119
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1A.Imnotgoingtoansweranyfurtherquestions
2aboutIDC.Imnotgoingtoansweranyfurtherquestions
3aboutIDC.
4WhatIdeemfrompersonal,privateissuesare
5whetherIknowaboutitornot.AndIthinkifyouwantto
6askIDC,ifyouwanttohavetheirlawyerspresent,thats
7fine.ButIfeelthatImightbeexposingmyselftosome
8liability,asIhaveexplainedtoyouallday.
9MR.HARRIS:Canwegoofftherecordforasecond.
10Letmejusttalktoyouofftherecord.
11THEWITNESS:Sure.
12(Adiscussionisheldofftherecord.)
13MR.STEIN:Backontherecord.
14Q. Therewasaconversationbetweencounseland
15Mr.Gaggeroofftherecord.
16Ihadasked,Mr.Gaggero,whetheryouknewwhattype
17ofentityIDCwas.Ibelievethatwasthelastquestion.
18A.Andmycounselwasgivingmesomeadvice,and
19soIllheedit.
20IdontknowwhatkindofanentityIDCis.
21Q. Whoisyourcontact whichindividualis
22yourcontactatIDC?
23A.IveworkedthroughRobertShelburgandaguy
24namedFlemingEdsburg.
--
25Q. Andarebothofthoseindividuals canyou

120
HUTCIIINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
--
1spellthelast. one,ifyouknow,Fleming
2A.Idontknowhowtospellit.
3Q. Canyourepeatthenameagain,please.
4A.FlemingEdsburg.
5Q. Areeitheroneofthoseindividualswithinthe
6UnitedStates?
7Idontknow.Whatdoyoumeanbythat
Bquestion?
9Q. DotheyresideintheUnitedStates?
10A.Idontknow,nordoIprofesstoknowwhat
11theirresidentialstatusis.
12Q. Well,youvebuntedofftomeifIwanttoask
13IDCanything,IneedtocontactIDC.
14HowdoyoucontactIDC?
15YouvecontactedthemthruMr.Shelburgand
16Mr.Edsburg.
17DoyouContactthoseindividuals?
18A.IdontrememberhowIcontactedMr.Edsburg,
19itsbeensolong.AndMr.Shelburg,Icallhintonthe
20telephone.
21Q. DoyoucallanumberwithinCalifornia?
22A.No.
23Q. DoyoucallanumberwithintheUnitedStates?
24A.No.
25Q. Wheredoyoucallanumber?
121
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1A.Prague.
2Q. Prague.
3Doyouhavethatnumberwithyou?
4A.No.
SQ. Wheredoyoukeepthattelephonenumber?
6A.Probablyinmyphonebook.
7Q. Isitlistedinyourcellphonedirectory?
SA.No.
9Q. Idlikeyoutoprovidemewiththattelephone
10number.
11Werenotgoingtofinishtoday,asIveindicated
12before,becauseoftheobjectionsthathavebeen.Sowere
13goingtogobackdowntothecourtandgetanewdateto
14comebackanddothissomemore.
15A.Thisisthefourthtimeyouverestatedthat.
16Wevetakenfivebreaks.Youverepeatedthatoverand
17overthatwenotwouldfinishtoday.
18Ifyoudusethetime
19MR.HARRIS:Theresnoreasonnottofinishtoday,
2030letsjustpressforwardandfinish.
21MR.STEIN:
--
22Q. Wellpressforwardandgoasfaraswecan
23go.
24Imgoingtoaskwhenwedocomeback,thatyou
25bringwithyouthetelephonenumberforMr.Shelburg.
122
-
1A.Well,thatwouldbesubjecttoMr.Shelburg
2andhisattorneyswillsallowingmetodisclosethat.
3Q. Alternatively,IwouldaskthatOU Contact

4themandhavethemcontactme.
5MR.HARRIS:Wellconsiderthatrequest.
6MR.STEIN:Verywell.
7Q. Butyoudoknowthetelephonenumber,andyou
8haveitsomeplace?
9Yes?
10A.Ihavea ifIhaveaphonenumberfor
11Mr.Shelburg?
--
12Q. Idowantthattelephonenumber.
13A.AndifMr.Shelburgwants
14MR.HARRIS:Wellconsidertherequest.
15THEWITNESS:Wellconsidertherequest.
16MR.STEIN:Thankyou.
17Q. Haveyoueverheardofanentitycalled
18MonticelloProperties?
19A.Yes.
20Q. WhatdoyouknowaboutMonticelloProperties?
21A.Thatsaverybigquestion,and,again,Im
22notgoingtodisclosethatwhichIknowaboutanother
23entitywithouttheir withoutthembeinghereortheir
24lawyerbeinghere.
--
25Q. Doyouhaveanydocumentswithregardto
123
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2A.No.
3Q. WasMonticelloPropertiestheentity
4A.DoIhavethemwithme?
--
5Q. Withyou?
6A.No.
7Q. Doyouhaveanydocumentsrelatedto
8MonticelloPropertiesanywhere?
9A.Itsabigtermrelatedto,butnoIdont
10thinkIhaveanydocumentsrelatedtoMonticelloProperties
11thattheentityis
--
12Q. Imgoingtospellitoutspecifically.
13MonticelloProperties,comma,5,period,A,period,
14aLuxembourgcorporation.
15Isthatthesameentitythatyouwerereferringto?
16A.Isthatthesameentityyourereferringto?
17Q. ThatstheentityImreferringto.
18A.Okay.ThenIthinkwereonthesamepage.
19Q. Yes,page4?
20A.Uhhuh.
21Q. Doyouhaveanydocumentsrelatedtothat
22entity?
23A.No.
24Q. Doesanybodythatyoudealwithhaveany
25documentsrelatedtothatentity;forexample,Mr.Praske
124
1orMr.Walters?
2A.Thatsacompoundquestion.
3Q. Imentitledtoananswer.
4A.Youdhavetobreakitdown.
SQ. Youcantansweritthewayitwasphrased?
6A.Idlikeyoutorephraseit.
7Q. Doesanyoneotherthanyourselfhaveany
8documentsthatyouareawareofrelatedtoMonticello
9Properties.S.A.,aLuxembourgcorporation?
10A.Imsuretheydo.
11Q. Whowouldthosepeoplebe?
12A.Idontknow.
13Q. DoesMr.Praskehaveanydocumentsrelatedto
14thatentity?
15A.No,not Idontknow.
--
16Q. DoesMr.Waltershaveanydocumentsrelatedto
17thatentity?
18A.Idoubtit.
19Q. Doyouhaveanyownershipinterestin
20MonticelloProperties,S.A.?
21A.No.
22Q. HaveyoueverbeentoLuxembourg?
23A.IthinkIwasonce,butImnotsure.Imight
24havestoppedintheairport.
25MR.HARRIS:Itsprettytiny.
125
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1THEWITNESS:Itsasmallplace.Idonthavea
2recallofit.
3MR.STEIN:
4Q. Doyouownanyrealpropertyinanyplace
5otherthantheUnitedStates?
6A.Idontownanyrealpropertyoutsideofthe
7UnitedStates.
SQ. Howaboutdoyouownanyrealpropertyinside
9theUnitedStates?
10A.No.
11Q. ItappearsthatMonticelloPropertiesownsor
12mayhaveownedthepropertythatwepreviouslydescribedas
13theBroadBeachproperty.
14DidyouhaveanythingtodowithMonticello
15Propertiesbecomingtheownerorhavinganinterestinthat
16property?
17A.No.
18Q. Didyouevertransferanypropertyto
20A.Yes.
21Q. WhatpropertydidyoutransfertoMonticello
22Properties?
23A.SomeotherpropertiesinMalibu.
24Q. WhichpropertiesinMalibu?
25A.33222and33218PacificCoastHighway.
126
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1Q. Whendidyoutransferthosepropertiesto
3A.Idontremember.
4Q. HowmuchwereyoupaidbyMonticello
5Propertiesforthepropertythatyoutransferred?
6A.Idontremember.
7Q. DoyouknowwhetherGingerbreadCourtstill
8ownsthepropertyinVenicebeach?
9A.Whichproperty?
10Q. ThepropertyyoutransferredtoGingerbread
11Court,thelimitedpartnership.
12A.Ithinkitdoes.
13Q. Doyouknowwhetheranyotherentityownsthat
14propertyinadditiontoGingerbreadCourt?
15A.No.
16Q. DoyouknowsomeonenamedGeneKilpatrick?
17A.Idontthinkso.
18Q. Alawyerbythatname?
19A.GeneKilpatrick?
20Q. Uhhuh.
21A.No.
22Q. Doyouknowalawyerwhoselastnameis
23Kilpatrick excuseme,Jennifer?
24A.Yes.
--
25Q. DidJennifereverrepresentyou?
127
IA,Yes.
2Q. JenniferKilpatrick?
3A.Yes.
4Q. DidMs.Kilpatrickrepresentyouwithregard
StoBluHouseLLC?
SA.Idontthinkso.
7Q. Inregardtothetransferofpropertybyyou
8toBluHouseLLC.
9A.Idontknowifsherepresentedmeonthator
10not.
11Idontunderstandreallywhattheramificationsof
12representmeans.AndIthinkshemighthavebeenBlu
13Houseslawyerinthatregard.Idontknowforsure.
14Q. Haveyoueverhadanownershipinterestin
15BluHouse?
15A.Idontknow.
17Q. Youdontknow?
18A.Imsorry.
19Q. Youdontknow?
20A.Yeah.Youaskedmethatquestionearlier
21today,andIvejustreaffirmedthesameanswer.
2244 Q. Ithoughtperhapshavingreflected
23Ms.Kilpatricksnamemightrefreshyourrecollection.
24Imgoingto,justforthemomentbeforeIlose
25them,Imgoingtoaskthecourtreportertomarkthe
128
1RJTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
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1JacksonFederalBankstatementasthenextdocumentin
2order,andfollowingthat,theGenovaHoldingsLLC
3CertificateofMembershipasthenextdocumentinorder.
4DoyouownanyjewelrybesidesthewatchthatIve
5receivedthismorning?
6A.No.
7Q. None?
9Q. Doyouhaveanystampsorcoincollections?
10A.No.
11Q. Doyouownanypatents?
12A.No.
13Q. Doyouownanyinventions?
14A.No.
15Q. Doyouownanytrademarks?
16A.No.
17Q. Doyouownanytradenames?
18A.Tradenames?
191dontunderstandwhatthatis.
20Q. Doyoudoanybusinessunderanameotherthan
21StephenGaggero?
22A.Idontreallyunderstandthatquestion.
23Q. Doyouhaveanyfictitiousbusinessnames
24underwhich
25A.Mepersonally?
129
--
1Q.Yes,youpersonally.
2A.No.
3Q.Doyouownanycopyrights?
4A.Idontthinkso.
SQ. Doyouhaveanyinterestinanyjoint
6ventures?
7A.Idontthinkso.Imnotsure.
8Q. Whatmakesyouhesitate?
9A.BecauseIvedonealotofthingsovermy
10life,andIdontknowwhathasexpiredandwhathasnt
11expired,soImnotsure.
12Q. Whowouldhavedocumentsthatwouldrelate
13whetheryouhadanyinterestinanyjointventure?
14A.Idontknow.ThatswhyImhesitantto
15answer.Idontknow.
16Q.WouldMr.Praskehaveanysuchdocuments?
17A.Idontthinkso.Idontknow.Anythingis
18possible.Imsorry,Idontknow.Icantthinkofany
19jointventures,andIdontknowifMr.Praskewouldhave
20anysuchdocuments.
21But,again,Idontknowifoverthecourseofmy
22lifeIwasinvolvedinajointventurethatstillexists.
23Idontknow.
24JustlikeyoubroughtupthatAnimalArtthing.
25ThatwasacompanythatIdcompletelyforgottenaboutlong
130
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1ago.SoIdontwanttosaysomethingthatIjustcant
2rememberrightnow.
3MR.HARRIS:Therecouldbeanotheranimalcompany
4outtherethatyouveforgottenabout;right?
5THEWITNESS:Thatsright.
6MR.STEIN:
7Q. Doyouhaveanywarehousereceiptsinwhich
Spropertyisstoredinawarehouseonyourbehalf?
9A.No.
10Q. Doyouhaveownershipofanybillsoflading
11whichpropertyisbeingshippedfromoneplacetoanother
12inyourname?
13A.No.
14Q. Doyouownanymusicalinstruments?
15A.No.
16Q. Piano?
17A.No.
18Q. Haveyoupawnedanypersonalpropertyinthe
19lasttwoyears?
20A.No.
21MR.HARRIS:Offtherecord.
23MR.STEIN:
24Q. Doyouknowwhethertheestateandtax
25planningvehiclethatwediscussedearlierstillexists?
131
HtJTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOHALSERVICES 800.697.3210
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1A.Whichone?
2Q. Theoneinwhichyouusedtotransferproperty
3 such as the Broad Beach property?

4 A. We discussed Broad Beach property, and I
5 remembered that it was a limited partnership.
6 Q. Right.
7 A. We were calling it a !tvehiclell then we
8 identified it as a limited partnership because I remembered
9 the name of it.
10 Q. You talked about family estate planning
11documents,aswell.
12Doyouhaveanyrecollectionastowhothe
13beneficiaryoftheestateplanningdocumentsmightbe?
15THEWITNESS:Exactly;askedandanswered.
16MR.STEIN:
17Q. Youdonthaveanyrecollection?
18A.Imnotsure.
19Q. Areyouthebeneficiaryofanytrusts?
20A.Youaskedmethatquestionalotofdifferent
21timesthismorning,andItoldyouImnotsure.Icould
22be.IjustdontknowifIamornot.
23Q. Haveyouinheritedanymoneylatelyinthe
24lastyeartwoyears?
25A.No.
132
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IQ. Areyouexpectingtoinheritanymoney?
2A.Idontknow.
3Q. Doyouknowwhetheryourmotheror
4stepfather fatherorstepmotherintendtoleaveyouany
Smoney?
6A.Idontknow.
--
7Q. Haveyoudiscusseditwiththem?
8A.No.
9Q. Doyouhaveanyinterestinanestateofany
10deceasedperson?
11A.Idontthinkso.Imnotsure.Idont
12know.MaybeIdo.
13Q. Letstalkaboutthependinglawsuitsthatyou
14areinvolvedinwiththeexceptionofthisone.
15Imawareoftwopendinglawsuits three.
16TherearetwoFirstFederalBanklawsuits,andthere
17istheShermanStacylawsuit.
18Arethereanyotherlawsuitsthatyouarepresently
19eitheraplaintifforadefendantinasidefromtheinstant
20case?
21A.Imadefendantinanothercasenow.Icant
22remember.
--
23Q. Whereisthatcasepending?
24A.Imnotsure.
25Q. Mr.Garciasfirm representingyou?
133
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1A.Yes.
2Q. Isthatcasepresentlyongoing?
3A.Yes.
4Q. Isitpresentlypendinginthisparticular
5courthouse?
6A.Idontthinkso,butIdontknow.Imnot
7sure.
8Q. Areyouaplaintiffinanyotherlawsuitthan
9thetwowithFirstFederalBankandtheShermanStacycase,
10actively?
11A.Imnotsure.
12Q. Youindicatedearliertodaythatyouintendto
13fileyetanotherlawsuitagainstMr.Schlein?
14A.Ididnot.
15Q. Actually,youdid,but
16A.Ididnot.
17Whatkindofastatementisthat?
--
18Q. YoutoldMr.Schlejntheresanotherlawsuit
19comingdownthepipe.
20A.Imostcertainlydidnot.
21Q. Doyouintendtofilealawsuitagainst
22Mr.Schlejn?
23A.Forwhat?
24Q. Idontknow.
25A.IllhavetowaitandseeifMr.Schlejn
134
I{UTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
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1continuestoharassmeornot.
2Q. Well,howhasMr.Schleinharassedyou?
3A.Well,Idontthinkthatthisistheforumfor
4that.
5MR.HARRIS:Imgoingtoobjecttothatquestion
6becauseithasnothingwhatsoevertodowith,youknow,
7whetherhehasassetsor
8MR.STEIN:Ifhesgotachosenaction,itsan
9asset,andImentitledtoaskaboutit.
10MR.HARRIS:Apotentialchosenactionagainst?
11MR.STEIN:AgainstMr.Schleinoranyoneelse.
12MR.HARRIS:Okay.Thatsalegitimatequestion.
13Youknow,ifhedoeshaveapotential ifyouhave
14apotentialclaimagainstSchlein,youknow,thenhehasa
15righttoaskaboutthat.
16THEWITNESS:Whatdoeshehavearighttoask
17about?
18MR.HARRIS:Whatthenatureofthepotentialclaim
19wouldbeifyouhaveapresentintentionoffilinga
20lawsuitorifyouareawarethatyouhavesomekindof
21present,youknow,claimthat,youknow,youconsider
22yourselftobedamagedbyanywrongfulconductonthepart
23ofSchlejn.
24THEWITNESS:Sowhatsyourquestion?
25MR.STEIN:
135
--
--
1Q. Iaskedyou,doyouhaveanyclaimsagainst
2Mr.Schleinwhichyoufeeldamagedyou?Andyousaidif
3Mr.Schleincontinuestoharassyou.
4AndImgoingtoaskyouwhatharassmenthas
5Mr.Schleininflicteduponyouinthelast12months?
6A.Youmischaracterizedtherecordcompletely,
7andsoPmgoingto Iwantyoutoaskmespecific
8questions.
9+ Q.IaskedyouwhatharassmenthasMr.Schlein
10inflictedonyouinthelast12months?
11A.Idontthinkthatisaquestionthathas
12anythingtodowithcollectingmoneyfromme.
13MR.HARRIS:Imgoingtoobjecttothequestion,
14instructhimnottoanswerbecauseitsimproperform,the
15question,anditsnotcalculatedtoleadtodiscoveryof
16whetherornothehasachosenaction.
17whydontyoujustaskhimwhetherhepresentlyhas
18aclaimagainstMr.Schlein.
19MR.STEIN:
20Q.Doyoupresentlyhaveaclaimagainst
21Mr.Schlein?
22A.Illhavetodiscussthatwithcounsel.
--
23Q. Doyouknowwhetheryouhaveaclaimagainst
24Mr.Schleinyourselfwithoutdiscussingitwithanybody?
25YouretheonewhosaidifMr.Schleincontinuesto
136
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1harassyou,Imwondering
2A.WhatdidIsay?
--
3Q. IfMr.Schleincontinuestoharassyou
4A.Thatsnotacompletesentence.
--
5Q. Youintendtobringaclaimagainsthim?
6A.IsaidImay.
7Q. Now,Iwanttoknowhowyouvebeendamagedby
8Mr.Schleinsconduct?
9A.Ididntsay IdidnttellyouwhetherI
10hadorhadnotbeendamaged.Therewasnodiscussionabout
11that.
--
12Q. Imaskingyouhowyouweredamaged,ifyou
13weredamaged,byMr.Schleinsconduct?
14A.Whichconduct?
15Q. Anyconduct.
16MR.HARRIS:Imgoingtoobjecttotheextentit
17callsforalegalconclusion.
18Butifyouunderstand,youcananswer.
19THEWITNESS:Well,IthinkthatssomethingthatI
20havetodiscusswithmylawyersbecauseitinvolves it
21requiresalegalconclusion.
22MR.STEIN:
--
23Q. Whatlegalconclusionisthat?
24A.Whateverlawyersconcludeafterthereisa
25discussionaboutMr.Schleinsconduct.
137
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1+Q. Okay.Imgoingtoaskagain:Howhas
2Mr.Schleinharassedyouinthepast12months?
3MR.HARRIS:Imjustgoingtoobjectonthegrounds
4that,one,itcallsforlegalconclusionand,two,ithas
5nopossiblerelevancytoanychosenaction,whetherornot
6hesbeen heperceiveshesbeenharassedoverthelast
712months.
8MR.STEIN:Soareyougoingtoinstructhimnotto
9answer?
10MR.HARRIS:Yeah.
11THEWITNESS:Ithinkthatthisquestioningisa
12lineofquestioningthatbelongsinadifferentcase,and
13youcanaskmeinthatcaseand
14MR.STEIN:
--
--
15Q. Whichcase?
16A. TheYuracase;youknow,youdiscussedthat
17earliertoday.Soyouknowthatwehaveanongoingbattle
18withyouandyourclientsinthatcaseseparateandapart
19fromthiscase;andinthatcase,ifyouwanttodeposeme,
20byallmeans
21MR.HARRIS:Thatsanotherseparatecaseyoure
22identifyingthatyouareinvolvedin?
23THEWITNESS:Hesalreadymentionedit.
24MR.HARRIS:But,before,hewasaskingyouabout
25allthecases,andIdontthinkthatonewasmentioned
138
--
1yet.
2THEWITNESS:Yeah.Iprobablyforgotaboutit.
3MR.STEIN:
4Q. Smallone,soforgetit.
5A.Imsorry.Whatwasyourcomment?
6Q. Mycommentwas,MIttsasmallcase,soforget
7it.
8A.Isit?
9Q. Idontknow.Yousaidthat.
10A.Isaiditwasasmallcase,soforgetit?
11MR.HARRIS:Hedidntsayit.Yousaidit.
12MR.STEIN:
13Q. Fairenough.
14LetstalkabouttheYuracase.
15Whatareyoutryingtoachievebybringingthat
16lawsuit?
17A.Idontthink
18MR.HARRIS:Object.Vagueandambiguous.
19THEWITNESS:Idontthinkthatsaquestionthat
20hasanythingtodowiththisexamination.
21MR.STEIN:
22Q. Well,Ihavealieninthatcase,soIdlike
23toknowwhatassetyoubelievethatyouown.
24MR.HARRIS: Whydontyoujustaskhimwhathe
25understandswhatthenatureofhisclaimsareinthat
139
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1lawsuit.
2MR.STEIN:ThatsnotreallywhatIwant.
3Q. WhatarethenatureofyourclaimsintheYura
4lawsuit?
5A.Well,asyouveindicated,youpulledthe
6file,youvereadtheComplaint1andsoyouwould
7understanditbetterthanIwouldbecauseitsalegal
8document.
9Q. WhatareyourclaimsintheYuralitigation?
10MR.HARRIS:Totheextentthatyouunderstandthem.
11Totheextenthesaskingforalegalconclusion,Im
12objecting.
13Buttotheextentyouhaveanyunderstandingofwhat
14theclaimsare thisisasalaypersonandnot you
15know,werenottalkingaboutthelegalityoftheclaims,
16whetheracauseofactionisviable,justofthefactsor
17basisofanyclaims.
18THEWITNESS:Totellyouthetruth,Steve,Idont
19reallyknowiftheresanythingImgoingtosayhere
20thatsgoingtoprovidetotheotherside thatmay
21cause prejudicethatcase,andsoIreallydontwantto
22commentonthatuntilIcouldspeakatlengthwith
23Mr.Garciaaboutthislineofquestioningandfindout
--
--
--
--
from
24thejudgeif,infact,thisissomethingthatis
germaneto
25thisdebtorsexam.
140
HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,IJLC GLOBALSERVICES
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800.697.3210
1MR.STEIN:
2Q. WellIvebeendirectedbycourtordernotto
3providethistranscriptoftheseproceedingstoanybody
4otherthanthepartiesandcounselfromjudgmentcreditors
5inthecase.
6A.Imconcernedyouregoingtogiveitto
7Mr.Schlein,andthenifyougiveittoMr.Schleinand
8Mr.SchleinprovidesittotheYurapeople,thenwere
9goingtohavethelawsuitthatweretalkingabout.
10Q. Assumingforamomentthatthathappens,then
11youhaverights,butthatismerespeculationatthis
12point.
13WhatImaskingyouatthispointintimeiswhat
14areyourclaimsintheYuralitigation?
15MR.HARRIS:Offtherecordforasecond.Iwantto
16conferwithmyclient.
17MR.STEIN:Fairenough.
19MR.STEIN:Wouldyoureadthelastquestion,
20please.
22THEWITNESS:MyclaimsintheYuralitigationare
23fortherecordationofCC&Rs.
24MR.STEIN:
25Q. Doyoualsohaveaclaimformonetarydamages?
141
-
1A.Idontknow.
2Q. Now,IunderstandfromtheYuralitigationand
3readingthefilethattheclaimagainstYura,YUR.A,is
4reallyderivativebecauseitwasMr.Harriswithwhomyou
5negotiated,andhepassedawayandthepropertytransferred
6toMs.Yura.
7Butalsoinreadingthefile,therightstorecord
8theCC&RsareheldbyMs.Boren,StephanieBoren.
9Isthatcorrect?
10A.No.
11Q. TherightstorecordtheCC&Rsareheldby
12you,then?
13A.Idontcompletelyunderstandthatquestion.
14Q. Youtoldmethat
15A.Whatdoyoumean!Itherightstorecord?
--
16Q. Well,therightstoinsistthattheCC&Rsbe
17recorded.
18Thatisyourclaim,thattheCC&Rsaretobe
19recorded;isthatcorrect?
20A.Thatsavagueandsomewhatinaccurate
21overview.
22Q. Whydontyougivemeamoreconciseandmore
23accurateoverview?
24A.Igaveyouaconciseandmoreaccurate
25overview.
142
-
1Whatisthequestionyouwanttoknow?
2DoyouwanttoknowifImgoingtogetanymoney
3outofthere?No,Imnot.IdonttbelieveImevergoing
4togetanymoneyoutofthis,but,youknow,whoknows.
5Q.WhyisitimportanttoyouthattheCC&Rsget
6recorded?
7A.Becausetheyarepartofthedealthatwas
SstruckbetweenMr.HarrisandMs.Boren.
9Q.Andcanyoudescribethatdealforme,please?
10A.Well,sinceitwasbetweenMr.Harrisand
11Ms.Boren,IdontknowthatImsupposedtodescribe
12anythingtoyouotherthanwhatyoucanreadinthepublic
13files.
14AndIthinksincetheresapleadinginthefile,
15youcangoandreadallaboutit.Butotherthanthat,for
16metodiscloseanythingelseoutsideofthatlitigation,I
17dontknowthatitsproperatthistime.
18MR.HARRIS:Totheextentthatyouhaveany
19understandingofthedealasreflectedbythelitigation,
20nothingthatsoutsidethescopeofthelitigation,butis
21containedintheComplaint.
22THEWITNESS:Idont IfailtoseewhyIm
23havingtogothroughtheYuradepositionataVNBCdebtors
24exam.
25MR.STEIN:
143
--
1Q. Iguesstogetto
2A.That well,IguessIdont.
3MR.STEIN:Areyougoingtoinstructhimnotto
4answer?
SMR.HARRIS:Whatsthequestion?
6MR.STEIN:
--
7+ Q. Thequestionis,whatwasthedealthat
SMs.BorenstruckwithMr.Harris?
9THEWITNESS:Imsayingyoucanreadaboutit.
10MR.HARRIS:Hesalreadytestifiedwhathisclaims
11forreliefareinthatlawsuit,totheextentthathe
12understandsthem.
13AndthetermsofthedealbetweenHarrisand
14somebodyelse,andHarrisbeingHarrisdifferentthan
15me,havenothing cannotpossiblyleadtoanyevidence
16thatwouldberelevanttohisassetsorhischosenaction,
17whichhesalreadydescribedwhatitis.
18And,therefore,Iminstructinghimnottoanswer.
19MR.STEIN:
--
20Q. WhatbenefitisittoyouiftheCC&Rsare
21recorded?
22A.Idontknowthatitisabenefittome.
23Q. Thenwhyyouareinterestedinhavingit
24accomplished?
25A.Becausethatsthedealthatwasagreedupon
144
-
1betweenMr. Harrisandmyself.
2+ Q. Okay.Whatwasthedealthatwas agreedupon
3betweenyouandMr.Harris?
4A.OnbehalfofMs.Boren.And,again,Imnot
5goingtoanswerthatbecauseIdontthinkithasanything
6todowithmy7
MR.HARRIS:Sameinstructionasbefore.
8Youknow,wevealreadygiven itsthesame
9questionthatIvealreadyinstructedhimnottoanswer.
10Hesagaininstructednottoansweronthesame
11grounds.
12MR.STEIN:Thefirsttime,thatwasadealthatwas
13struckbetweenMr.HarrisandMs.Boren.Nowhesaidits
14adealthatwasstruckbetweenhimselfandMr.Harris.
15THEWITNESS:MaybeImisunderstoodthequestion.
16MR.HARRIS:Youretellinghimitwasadeal
17betweenyouandMr.Harris?
18THEWITNESS;ImtestifyingthatMr.HarrisandI
19negotiatedatransaction,andIwasnegotiatingonbehalf
20ofMs.Borenasanaccommodatororasanassigneeof
21Ms.Borensoranassigneeofmyself,andIwas
22negotiating.And thetermsofthatnegotiationareinthe
23file,andyoucanreadthem.
24Andtotheextenttheressomethingoutsideofthat,
25ImconcernedthatImightprejudicethecaseorprejudice
145
--
1somebodysrightsinthecase,thatIshouldntdowithout
2afurtherdiscussionwithMr.Garcia.
3Idontwant ifyoureaskingmeiftheresany
4moneythatyoucanattachinthistransaction,no,theres
5not,thatIknowof.
6MR.STEIN:
--
7Q. Well,youstatedthatitisyourintentionby
8bringingthelawsuittocausecertainCC&Rstoberecorded?
10MR.STEIN:
11Q. Isntthatcorrect?
12A.Thatscorrect.
13Q. AndIhaveaskedyouwhatbenefitthereisin
14havingthoseCC&Rsrecorded.
15WhatisthebenefitininsistingthatthoseCC&Rs
16getrecorded,toyou?
17MR.HARRIS:Askedandanswered.Hesalready
18answeredthatquestion.
19MR.STEIN:Yourenotgoingtoallowhimtoanswer
20itagain?
21MR.HARRIS:Onemoretime,andthenafterthatIam
22instructinghimtonottoanswer.
23Repeatedquestionsproperlycanbetheinstruction
24nottoanswer.
25SoImgivingyouonemoreanswer.Ifyouaskit
146
-
1again,Iminstructinghimnottoanswer.
2Answeritonemoretime.
3THEWITNESS:Thebenefittowhom?
4MR.STEIN:
5Q. Toyou.
6A.Idontknowthatthereisabenefittome.
7Itsnotbeenestablishedthereisgoingtobeabenefit.
8Itmakes itconcludesthedealthatwas
9negotiatedwithMr.Harris.
--
10Q. Doesanyonebenefitthatyouareawareoffrom
11thatdealbeingconcluded,thedealbetweenwhomeverand
12Mr.Harris?
14Youcananswer.
15THEWITNESS: Idontknowthat.Thatstoolargea
16spectrum.Anyoneistoolargeofaspectrum.
17MR.STEIN:
18Q. WhatImtryingtounderstand,becauseIdo
19havealien myclients,whoarejudgmentcreditors,have
-
20alien.AndifIsayI
21A.Whatareyou
--
--
22Q. Thatsthe
23THEREPORTER:Youguysarereallyoverlapping.You
24havetospeakoneatatime.
25MR.STEIN:
147
--
1Q.Letmebackup.
2Myclients,whoIsometimesrefertoasbutmy
3clientshaveajudgmentlienagainsttheclaimsthatyou
4havemadeintheYuralawsuit.Ibelievethatthereis
5somevalue,monetaryvalueinthoseclaims.Iamtryingto
6investigatewhatbenefityouorMs.Borenwouldreceiveby
7furtherprosecutionofthoseclaims.
8Youhavestatedtomethatyoudontknowwhether
9thereisanybenefitthatyouwillreceive.
10A.Correct.
11Q. Andso
12A.Monetarybenefit.
--
13Q. Monetarybenefit.
14 isthereanemotionalbenefitthatyouwill
15receive?
16A.Thatsareallybizarrequestion.Idont
17know.
--
18Q. Okay.
19A.Ill.behappythatrightprevails.Illbe
20happy.Thatsanemotion.
21Illbeverycontentifthelawyersthatarebilling
22thethreeyearoldstrustontheothersidewindup
23oversteppingthelineandhavethatlittlegirlgoback
24afterthemforwastingthemoneyinthevastamountof
25attorneysfeestheyrewastingonthissillyclaim,which
148
-
Iisevenmoreridiculousbecauseitstryingtoundermine
2theagreementthatMr.HarrisandIandMs.Borencameto.
3Andsothatwouldbe,Ithink,justiceifweprevail
4andiftheattorneyswerethentakenonformalicious
Sprosecutionandforwastingthechildsinheritance.
6Q. Okay.Letstakeastephere.Thestepis
7thatyouprevailinyourlawsuitandtheCC&Rsare
8recorded.
9Doyouthenhavesomeotherrightstotheproperty
10whichthoseCC&Rsrelateto?
12Q. CC&Rs,asIunderstandthem,concernhowa
13parcelorparcelsofpropertieswillbeused.Youhave
14statedthatthelawsuitisforthepurposeofhaving
15certainCC&Rsrecorded.
16Myquestionis,willtherecordatjonofthoseCC&Rs
17affecttheuseofthepropertyat938PalisadesBeach
18Drive?
19MR.HARRIS:Callsforspeculation,Callsfora
20legalconclusion.
21Totheextentthatyouknow,youcananswer.
22THEWITNESS:Yes,theyshouldaffecttheuse.
23MR.STEIN:
24Q. Doyou,StephenGaggero,deriveanybenefit
25fromthepropertyshouldthoseCC&Rsberecorded?
149
-
1MR.HARRIS:Callsforspeculation.Callsfora
2legalconclusion.
3Youcananswerifyouknow.
4THEWITNESS:Forexample,ifIcontinuetolive
5there,Iwoulddrawthebenefitoftherenotbeing
6amplifiedmusicplayedoutside.Iwoulddrawthebenefit
7ofwhateverotherCC&Rsareonthere,maybeenhancethe
8quietenjoymentoflivingthere.
9MR.STEIN:
10Q. IftheCC&Rsarerecorded,doyouobtainthe
11righttodevelopthepropertyatall?
12A.Notnecessarily.
13Q. Doesanyaspectofthepotentialrecordingof
14theCC&Rsaboutwhichwespeakgiveyouanyright
15potentiallytodeveloptheproperty?
16A.No.
17Q. Doyoufeelthatyouhavesufferedany
18monetarylossasaresultoftherefusalofYuraand/or
19HarristorecordthoseCC&Rs?
21Butyoucananswer.
22THEWITNESS:Imnotsure.
23MR.STEIN:
24Q. DoesIDChaveaninterestintheYuracase?
25A.No,Idontthinkso.
150
-
1MR.STEIN:Letsgoofftherecordforamoment.
2(Adiscussionisheldofftherecord.)
3MR.STEIN:
4Q. Sincewemisseditamomentago,thereis
5presentlypendingtheYuracase,thereispresentlypending
6thetwoFirstFederalBankcases,andthereispresently
7pendingthecaseagainstShermanStacy.
8Arethereanyotherlawsuitsthatyouarea
9plaintiffin?
10A.NonethatIcanthinkofatthistime.
11Q. Arethereanyotherlawsuitsthatarebeing
12prosecutedbysomeoneelseonyourbehalf?
13A.Idontknowwhatyoumeanbythat.
14Q. IntheYuracase,youareprosecutingthe
15rightsofaresultofanagreementbetweenMs.Borenand
16Mr.Harris.
17Imwonderingifthereisanylawsuitsinwhich
18someoneisactingonyourbehalf?
19A.Imnotsure.
20Q. Doesthefederalorthestategovernmentowe
21youataxrefund?
22A.Idontthinkso.NotthatIknowof.It
23wouldbenice.
24MR.HARRIS:Yeah.
25MR.STEIN:Weallthinkthat.
151
HtJTCHING5COURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
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1Q.Sothemonthlyexpensesthatyouhavestated
2thatyouearn,approximately$3,000amonth,youbuy
3groceries,youhaveaVISAcardthatyouusethatmay or
4aportionofitmayormaynotbepaid,andtheamountthat
5ispaidiscreditedbyPacificManagement.
6Whatothermonthlyexpensesdoyouhave?
7Doyoupayyourtelephonebill?
8A.Idonthaveatelephone.
--
9Q. Doyoupayforcabletelevision?
10A.IthinkIdo,
11Q. Wouldthatbebycheck?
12A.No,Idont.Imsorry,Idonot.
13Q.Doyoupayawaterbillforthepropertywhere
14youlive?
15A.No.
16Q. Doyoupaythegasfortheheater,thecooking
17inthatproperty?
18A.No.
19Q. Doyoupaytheelectricbillatthatproperty?
20A.No.
21Q. Doyoupayanythingforyourrighttolivein
22thatproperty?
23A.No.Iworkformyrighttoliveinthe
24property.
25Q. AndtheworkisonbehalfofPacific
152
-
1Management?
2A.Thatscorrect.
3Q. DoesPacificManagementhaveanyrighttothat
4property?
5A.Idontknow.
6Q.DoesPacificManagementmanagethatproperty?
7A.Yes.Well,Imanageit.
8Q.Ontheirbehalf?
9A.Ontheirbehalf.
10Q. Isee.
11Arethereothertenantsthatliveinthatproperty
12besidesyourself?
13A.No.
14Q.Soitsnotarentalproperty?
15A.Thatscorrect.
16Q.Soyouretheonlypersonlivingthere?
17A.Askedandansweredthatquestionalready
18today.
19Q.Yeah,Ididaskandyoudidanswerthat.
20Areyoumakinganypaymentstoanycreditor?
21A.Notonaregularbasis.
22Q.Whowouldbethecreditorthatyouaremaking
23paymentsto?
24A.Well,asIindicated,Imnotmakingany
25paymentstoanycreditoronaregularbasis.
153
-
1Q. Well,thatIbelieveleavesitthatyoure
2makingpaymentstoacreditoronanirregularbasis.
3A.Ididntmeantoimplythat.Noisthe
4answertoyourquestion,then.
5Q. Doyouoweanybodyotherthanmyclients
6money?
7A.Alotofpeoplethinkso.
8Q. Well,whoelsethinksthatyouowethemmoney
9besidesmyclientsandFirstFederalBank?
11THEWITNESS:Lawyers.Variouslawyers.
12MR.STEIN:
13+ Q. WhopaysfortheservicesofMr.Harrisslaw
14firm?
15MR.HARRIS:Attorneyclientprivilege.Instruct
16himnottoanswer.
17MR.STEIN:
18+ Q. DoyoupayfortheservicesofMr.Harriss
19lawfirm?
20MR.HARRIS:Sameinstruction.
21MR.STEIN:
22Q. Haveyoufurnishedafinancialstatementto
23anylendingentitywithinthelastthreeyears,beinga
24bank,savingsandloan,creditcardcompany?
25A.Idontthinkso.
154
HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLCGLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
-
1Q. Howaboutspinningitbackalittlefurther,
2forthelastfiveyears?
3A.Imnot Imnotsure.
--
4Q. Areyoutheguarantorofaloanmadetoany
5otherperson?
6A.No.
7Q. Areyouabletopayyourdebtsastheycome
8due?
9MR.HARRIS:Callsforalegalconclusion.
10THEWITNESS:Ithinkso.
11MR.STEIN:
12Q. Asidefromthejudgmentinthiscase,any
13othersthatyouhaventpaidthatyouareawareof?
14A.TheresthelegalfeeissuesthatItoldyou
15aboutforotherpeople.
16Q. Whodoyouowelegalfeesto?
17A.IdontthinkIowelegalfeels.
18Q.Whoclaimsthatyouowelegalfees?
19A.Imnotexactlycertain.AnditIwas,it
20wouldbeanattorneyclientprivilegeddiscussionanyway.
21Q. Soyoudontknowwhoowes whoclaimsyou
22owethemlegalfees?
23MR.HARRIS: Imjustgoingtoobjectonthegrounds
24thatitsattorneyclientprivilegeinformation.
25Instructhimnottoanswer.
155
HtYICHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
--
1MR.STEIN:
2Q. Hasanyotherjudgmentcreditortakenstepsto
3enforceajudgmentagainstyouasidefromthejudgment
4otherjudgmentcreditorsinthiscase?
5MR.HARRIS:Justassumesfactsnotinevidence,
6thatthereareotherjudgmentcreditors.
7MR.STEIN:Hesaidtheresajudgmentinfavorof
8FirstFederalBank.
9Q. HasFirstFederalbankendeavoredtoenforce
10itsjudgmentagainstyou?
11A.Itsbeingappealedrightnow,soIthinkits
12stayed.
13Q. TheFirstFederalBankjudgmentagainstyouis
14beingappealed?
15A.Yes.
16Q. Didyoupostabondinthatcase?
17A.No.
18Q. Havetheyotherwiseendeavoredtoenforcethe
19judgmenteventhoughitisbeingappealed?
20A.Idontknow.Imean,itsanongoing
21litigation.Iguessthatsendeavoring.
22Q. Theyhaventgarnishedanyofyourassets,
23seizedanyofyourassets?
24A.No.
25Q. Hasanyothercreditorbesidesmyclients
156
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1seizedanyofyourassetsinthelast12months?
2A.Ididntknowyourclientsseizedany.
3Q. Well,placedliensonassets.
4MR.HARRIS:Heseizedyourwatch.
5MR.STEIN:
6Q. Weseizedyourwatch.
7A.Yeah,youdid.Youseizedmywatch,forgot
8aboutthat.
9MR.HARRIS:Plusthecash.
10THEWITNESS:Thatwasimportantbecauseitwas
11lunchanddinnerandbreakfasttomorrowandmaybelunch
12tomorrow.Butthatsokay.Illstarveforacoupledays
13foryou.
14Lettherecordreflectwerealllaughing.
15MR.STEIN:LettherecordreflectImnotlaughing.
16THEWITNESS:Well,youresmiling.
17MR.STEIN:Smirking.
18THEWITNESS:Thatsprobablymoreaccurate.
19MR.HARRIS: Youfoundsomehumorinit.
20MR.STEIN:
21Q. Doyouhaveanyhobbies?
22MR.HARRIS:Youknow,whatdoesthishavetodo
23withanything?
24Hobbies?
25MR.STEIN:Yeah,Imentitledtoaskwhetherhehas
157
HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC GLOBALSERVICES800.697.3210
-
1anyhobbies.
3Gobowling?
4MR.HARRIS:Hestryingtofindoutwhetheryouown
5abowlingball.
6THEWITNESS:Idonthaveabowlingball.
7MR.STEIN:
10Q. Doyouski?
11A.Ihaventforalongtime.
12Q. Doyousurf?
13A.No.
14Q. Doyouwaterski?
15A.Ihaventforalongtime.
16Q. Playtennis?
17A.No.
18Q. Doanyofyourfamilymembershaveany
19interestinGingerbreadCourt?
20A.No.
21Q. InBluHouse?
22A.Myfamilymembershavenointerestinanything
23asfarasIknow.Butyoucangodownthelistifyou
24want.No.
25Q. Doyourfamilymembershaveaninterestin
158
-
1BoardwalkSunset?
2A.No.
3Q. Doyourfamilymembershaveanyinterestin
4511OFW,OceanFrontWalk,Trust?
5A.No.
7AvalonCorporation?
8A.Idontthinkso.
10ClipperDevelopment?
11A.No.
13IDCcorporation?
14A.No.
16BluHouseLLC?
17A.Askedandanswered.No.
19SulphurMountainLand&Livestock,LLC?
20A.No.
21Q. Haveyoudisposedofanypropertysincethe
22ordercompellingyourappearancewasservedonyou,that
23wasservedonyouonMarch29th?
24HaveyoudisposedofanypropertysinceMarch29th?
25MR.HARRIS: Vagueandambiguousastothemeaning
159
-
1oftdjsposed Callsforlegalconclusion.
3Doyouunderstand?
4THEWITNESS:Whatdoyoumeanbythatquestion?
5MR.STEIN:
6Q.Haveyousoldanyproperty,anythingsince
7March29thofthisyear?
8A.Idontthinkso.
9Q.HaveyougivenawayanypropertysinceMarch
10ofthisyear?
11A.Youcanhavemywatch.Imjustkidding.
12No,Ihavent.
13Imjustkidding.
14Lettherecordreflectwerelaughingagain,and
15thistimeevenMr.Steinlaughed.
16MR.STEIN:Smiled.Ididntlaugh.
17MR.HARRIS:Wellagreewiththatintheinterest
18ofpreservingharmony.
19THEWITNESS:Itwasalaugh.
20MR.STEIN:
21Q.Gettingbacktothequestion.
22Didyoudisposeofanypropertysinceyouwere
23servedwiththesubpenaforthisproceeding?
24MR.HARRIS:Sameobjection.Vagueandambiguous.
25Callsforlegalconclusion.
160
-
1THEWITNESS:Idontthinkso.
2MR.STEIN:
3Q. Didyoutransferanyrealproperty?
4A.No.
5Q. Transferanypersonalproperty?
6A.No.
7Q. Doyouhaveanylifeinsurance?
8A.No.
9Q. Howabouthealthinsurance?
10A.IthinkIhavehealthinsurance.
11Q. Areyouentitledtoanyreimbursementsfrom
12yourhealthinsurerforanymedicaltreatment?
13A.No.
14Q. Doyouhaveapension?
15A.No.
16Q. Doyouhaveanyannuities?
17A.Whatisanannuity?
18Q. Anaccountthatpaysyoumoneyonamonthlyor
19regularbasis.
20A.No.
21Q. Doyouhaveanydisabilityinsurance?
22A.No.
23Q. Now,youweretobringyourdriverslicense
24today,butyouvelostit;correct?
161
-
1MR.STEIN:
2Q. Doyouhaveachauffeurslicense?
3A.Whatisachauffeurslicense?
4Q. Atypeofdriverslicensethatallowsyouto
5drivevehiclesforhire?
6A.No.
7Q. Youdontownanycars?
8Youveansweredthatquestion.
10MR.STEIN:
11Q. TheonlythingIreallyjustwanttotouchon
12alittlebitfurther,becauseImstillalittlebit
13unclearabout,isthisIDCentity.
14Andasfarasyouknow,theonlypersonthat
15mighttheonlylawyerthatmightberepresentingIDCat
16thejunctureisMr.Garcia?
17MR.HARRIS:Callsforspeculation.Lacks
18foundation.
19THEWITNESS:Exactly.Ihavenoidea.
20MR.STEIN:
21Q. But
22MR.HARRIS:Hejusttestifiedthatheknowshewas
23dealingwithIDC,notthathewasrepresentingthem.
24THEWITNESS:Iknowthatsomeofthecreditorshave
25madeanofferthroughMr.Garciatopayyourclientsoff,
162
--
1andImassuming thiswasjustanassumption thatone

2ofthoseisIDC,andthatswhoMr.Garciaistalking
3about.
4MR.STEIN:
--
--
5Q. SoasidefromMr.Garcia,doyouhaveanyidea
6whorepresentsatthispointintimeasanattorney100?
7A.No.
8Q. AndasidefromMr.ShelburgandMr.Edsburg,
9youknowofnoothercontactpersonwithIDC?
10A.Theresawoman.Ivejustforgottenher
11name.
12Q. Illaskyoutoperhapsthinkaboutthat,and
13Illaskyouaboutitagainwhenwecomeback.
14A.Allright.
15Q. And thetwopiecesofpaperthatyouvegiven
16metodayaretheonlydocumentsthatyouhaveinyour
17custodyorcontrolthatareresponsivetothatdocument
18productionsubpena?
20THEWITNESS:AsbestasIcaninterpretit,yeah.
21MR.STEIN:
22Q. Wevetalkedaboutlawsuits.
23Haveyouassignedanyclaimsthatyoumighthaveto
24anythirdperson?
25Bywayofexample,Itakeitthattooneextentor
163
-
1another,Ms.BorenhasassignedherclaimsintheYura
2litigationtoyou.AndImnotaskingyoutocommenton
3that.ImjustmakingareferencethatIviewthatasan
4assignmentofaclaim.Imayberight.Imaybewrong.
5Imnotaskingyoutorespondtothat.
SImsaying,haveyouassignedanyclaimsthatyou
7havetoanyperson againstanypersontoanyone?
8A.IveassignedmyinterestIhaveinany
9lawsuitstomylawyershere(indicating)
--
10Q. Asidefromtheapproximatesumof$3,000a
11monthyoureceivefromPacificManagement,haveyou
12receivedanyothermoneyfromanyothersourcewithinthe
13lastyear?
14A.Ithinkyouaskedmethatquestionalready.
15justdontremember.
ISQ. Doesanybodyoweyouanymoney?
17A.Youaskedmethatquestionaswell,andI
18dontthinkso.Imeanjustlikeowed,Idontthinkso.
19MR.HARRIS:MaybeIoweyouforlunch?
20THEWITNESS:Ioweyouforlunchalmost.
21MR.STEIN:
22Q. Whatsortofbooksandrecordsdoyoukeepfor
23keepingtrackofyourmoney?
24A.Idontkeepbooksandrecordsforkeeping
25trackofmymoney.
164
-
1Q. Otherthanyourcheckbook?
2A.Thatsright.
3Q. Haveyoufiledbankruptcyinthelastseven
4years?
5A.Notyet.
6Q. TheonlylastquestionIhaveforyounowis
7howdoyouproposetosatisfythisjudgmentinthiscase?
8MR.HARRIS:Imgoingtoobjectonthegroundsthat
9itsvagueandambiguous,callsforalegalconclusion.
10Itsanimproperquestion.
11Hesjust youknow,Ithinkhesalreadymade
12someofferstoyou,soifhewantstoanswerit,hecan
13answer.Buthedoesnthaveto.
14MR.STEIN:Areyouinstructinghimnottoansweror
15justgiving
16MR.HARRIS:Imtellinghimifhedoesntfeel
17comfortableanswering,Imgoingtoinstructhimnotto
18answerbecauseIjustdontthinkitsaproperquestion.
19Ifyouwanttohaveasettlementdiscussion,youcan
20haveitofftherecord.
21MR.STEIN:Itsnotasettlement.Theresa
22judgmenthere.
--
--
23Q. Imaskinghowyouproposetopaythe
24judgment,ifatall?
25A.MaybesomedayI11makesomemoneyandI11
165
HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLCGLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
-
1sendityourwayasImakeit.
2Q. Otherthanthat,youhavenopresentability
3orintentiontosatisfythisjudgment
4A.ThatsnotwhatIsaid.
5Q. today?
6A.ImhappytopaythejudgmentwhenIhavethe
7moneytopayit.
--
--
8Q. Whydontwegoonupstairs,andwelltalkto
9thecommissionerortheclerkthereandgetanewdateto
10comeback,andwellbringthequestionsupthatneed
11furtheranswersforthecommissionerandallowhimto
12MR.HARRIS:Gethisruling.
13MR.STEIN:Onthosequestions.
14AndIdonthaveasparecopy,aswespeaktoday,of
15theorder,theprotectiveorder,butIwillprovideacopy
16tothecourtreporterafterweleavehereandaskherto
17binditasthenextnumberedexhibitwiththetranscriptto
18comportwiththeCourtsorder.
19MR.HARRIS:Great.
20MR.STEIN:AndthatsallIhave.
21MR.HARRIS:Idonthaveanything.
22THEWITNESS:Dontwewanttobindthattothe
23frontofit?
24MR.HARRIS:Ithinkthespecificinstructionwasa
25copyoftheprotectiveordershallbeincludedinthe
166
--
1transcript.
2MR.STEIN:Soitwillbeincluded.
3MR.HARRIS:Whetheritsfrontorback,that
4complies.
5MR.STEIN:Letsjustgoofftherecordherefora
6moment.
7(Adiscussionisheldofftherecord.).
8MR.STEIN:Letsgobackontherecord,then.
9Thecourtreporterwillprovidemewiththeoriginal
10transcriptofthisproceeding,andshouldMr.Gaggero
11and/orhiscounselwantacopy,thentheywillcontactthe
12courtreporterandseekacopyforthemselves.
13Andwecangoofftherecord.
14(Whereuponthedocumentsreferredtoaremarkedby
15thereporterasDefenseExhibits1through5for
16identification.)
17(Theproceedingsconcludedat2:00p.m.)
18(Signatureonthefollowingpage)
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
167
-
I
2Ideclareunderpenaltyofperjuryunderthelawsof
3theStateofCaliforniathattheforegoingistrueand
4correct.
5Executedat
California,
6on_________________________________
7
8
9STEPHENGAGGERO
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
168
HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLIC GLOBALSERVICES 800.697.3210
_______________________,
1STATEOFCALIFORNIA) ss
2
3I,PAMELA J.FUGATE,CSR11775,doherebydeclare:
4
5That,priortobeingexamined,thewitnessnamedin
6theforegoingexaminationwasbymedulyswornpursuantto
7Section2093(b)and2094oftheCodeofCivilProcedure;
8
9Thatsaidexaminationwastakendownbymein
10shorthandatthetimeandplacethereinnamedand
11thereafterreducedtotextundermydirection.
12
13IfurtherdeclarethatIhavenointerestinthe
14eventoftheaction.
15
16Ideclareunderpenaltyofperjuryunderthelawsof
17theStateofCaliforniathattheforegoingistrueand
18correct.
19
20WITNESSmyhandthis3O41 dayof
21
2001.
2:75
24RegisteredProfessionalReporter
25
169
_____________________ ,
982(a)(15.1)
I ATTORNEY OR PARTY WITHOUT ATTORNEY (Name, state bar number, and address): FOR COURT USE ONLY
_CraigJ.Stein
CraigJ.Stein,Esq.
Gelfand&SteinLLP
11755WilshireBoulevard,Suite1230
LosAngeles,CA90025
________________
_____
TELEPHONENO.:(310)
4790044 FAXNO.: 3104777663 D&a5MD
ATTORNEY FOR (Name): Defendants
NAMEOFCOURT:LOSANGELESSUPERIORCOURT
Date Rptr.1(CI
STREETADDRESS:111
North Hill Street
MAiliNG ADDRESS:
CITYANDZIPCODE
LosAngeles, CA 90012
BRANCHNAME: Central District
PLAINTIFF) PETITIONER: Stephen N. Gaggero
DEFENDANT/RESPONDENT: Steven Schlein, John Stein, Venic
THEPEOPLEOFTHESTATEOFCALIFORNIA,TO(name, address,and telephone
number ofwitness,ifknown):
STEPHEN N.GAGGERO,alsoknownasSTEPHENN.BLANCIIARD
1. YOU ARE ORDERED TO APPEAR AS A WITNESS in this action at the date, time, and place
shown in the box below UNLESS your appearance is excused as indicated in box3bbeloworyou
makeanagreementwiththepersonnamedInitem4below.
111N.HillStreet LosAngeles,CA90012
2.IF YOU HAVE BEEN SERVED WITH THIS SUBPOENA AS A CUSTODIAN OF CONSUMER
OR EMPLOYEE RECORDS
UNDERCODEOFCIVILPROCEDURESECTION1985.3OR1985.6ANDAMOTIONTO
QUASHORANOBJECTIONHAS
BEEN SERVED ON YOU, A COURT ORDER OR AGREEMENT OF THE PARTIES,
WITNESSES, AND CONSUMEROR
EMPLOYEEAFFECTEDMUSTBEOBTAINEDBEFOREYOUAREREQUIREDTOPRODUCE
CONSUMEROREMPLOYEE
RECORDS.
3. YOU ARE (item a orb must be checked):
a. Ei Ordered to appear in person and to produce the records described in the declaration on
page two or the attached declaration or affidavit. The personal attendance of the custodian or
other qualified witness and the production of the original records are required by this subpoena.
The procedure authorized by Evidence Code sections 1560(b), 1561, and 1562 will not be
deemed sufficient compliance with this subpoena.
b. Not required to appear in person if you produce (i) the records described in the declaration on
page two or the attached declaration or affidavit and (ii) a completed declaration of custodian of
records in compliance with Evidence Code sections 1560, 1561, 1562, and 1271. (1:1 Place a
copy of the records in an envelope (or other wrapper). Enclose the original declaration of the
custodian with the records. Seal the envelope. (2) Attach a copy of this subpoena to the envelope
or write on the envelope the case name and number; your name; and the date, time, and place
from item I in the box above. (3) Place this first envelope in an outer envelope, seal it, and mail it
to the clerk of the court at the address in item 1. (4) Mail a copy of your declaration to the attorney
or party listed at the top of this form.
4. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THE TIME OR DATE YOU ARE TO APPEAR, OR IF
YOU WANT TO BE CERTAIN THAT YOUR PRESENCE IS REQUIRED, CONTACT THE
FOLLOWING PERSON BEFORE THE DATE ON WHICH YOU ARE TO APPEAR:
a. Name of subpoenaing partyorattorney: Craig J. Stein b. Telephone number: (310) 4790044
5. Witness Fees: You are entitled to witness fees and mileage actually traveled both ways, as
provided by law, if you request them at the time of service. You may request them before your
scheduled appearance from the person named in item 4.
DISOBEDiENCE OF THIS SUBPOENA MAY BE PUNISHED AS CONTEMPT BY THIS COURT.
YOU WILL ALSO BE LIABLE FOR THE SUM OF FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS AND ALL
DAMAGES RESULTI FROM YOUR FAILURE TO OBEY.
Form Adopted for Man
Judicial Council of
AND PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS AND THINGS
JVJL SUBPOENA (DUCES TECUM) FORPERSONAL APPEARANCE AT TRIAL OR HEARINGAND
DECLARATION
Code of Civil ProceOure,
1985 at seq.
CIVIL SUBPOENA (DUCES TECUM) for Personal Appearance

andProductionofDocumentsandThingsatTrialorHearing
CAS
E
NUMBER:
sc
109521
ANDDECLARATION
a. Date:APRIL 16,
2001
Address:Los Angeles
b.
Dateiss
u
.Cg,
ed:March 29, 2001
T,Stn
(TYPE OR PRINT
NAME)
Time: 9:00a m.LJ Dept.:1ADiv.:J Room:

548SuperiorCourt
.
(Dec
l
aratio
n
in
suppo
/
21/
--
/ J7SNATURE OF PERSON ISSUING SUBPOENA)

Attg4/for Judgment Creditors
rt of subPorerse) (TITLE) Page one of three
PLAINTIFF/PEIfl9ONER: Stephen N. GaggeroCASE NUMBER:

SC 109521
LDEFENDANTIRESPONOENT: Steven Schlein, John Stein, Ven
The production of the documents or the other things sought by the subpoena on page one is
supported by (check one):
the attached affidavit or declaration LXI the following declaration:

DECLARATION IN SUPPORT OF CIVIL SUBPOENA (DUCES TECUM) FOR PERSONAL
APPEARANCE AND PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS AND THINGS AT TRIAL OR HEARING
(Code Civ. Proc., 1985, 1987.5)
1. 1. the undersigned, declare I am the
EEl
plaintiff defendant fl petitioner fl respondent
LXI
attorney for (specify): Judgment other (specifr):

Creditors
in the above-entitled action.
2. The witness has possession or control of the following documents or other things and shall
produce them at the time and place specified in the Civil Subpoena for Personal Appearance
and Production of Documents and Things at Trial or Hearing on page one of this form
(specify the exact documents or other things to be produced):
SEE ATTACHMENT 2 ATTACHED HERETO AND MADE A PART HEREOF.
Lii
Continued on Attachment 2.
3. Good cause exists for the production of the documents or other things described in paragraph
2 for the following reasons:
Thejudgmentcreditorsinthiscasehaveonlylimitidinformation
regardingassetsofStephenM.Gaggero,akaStephenN.Blanchard,
thejudgmentdebtor.Thedocumentssubpoenaedwillprovide
informationtotheJudgmentCreditorsastothenatureandextent
oftheassetsoftheJudgmentDebtorforthepurposeofexecution
tosatisfytheJudgments.Thedocumentssubpoenaedarenot
subjecttoaclaimofprivilege.
ContinuedonAttachment3.
4.Thesedocumentsorother things described in paragraph 2 are material to the issues
involved in this case for the following reasons:
JudgmentswereenteredonApril28,1995andSeptember15,1998
against
PlaintiffStephenM.Gaggero,akaStephenN.Blanchard,inthe
sumsof$66,000
and$54,685.43,respectively,andthesedocumentswillaid
Defendants/Judgment
CreditorsStevenSchlein,VeniceNorthBeachCoalition,Jacob
TuckMulligan,
JohnStein,andtheirassignees,inexecutionontheirjudgments.
LIII
ContinuedonAttachment4.
I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of California that the foreyoing is
true and correct
Date: March 29, 2001
,
CraigJ.Stein/l
PE OR PRINT NAME) (SIGNARE/ SUBPOENAING PARTY AUORNEY FOR
(Proof of service on page4345 / SUBPOENAING PARTY)

562(a)(iS.1) lRed Jarn&ay 1, 2000) CIVIL SUBPOENA (DUCES TECUM) FORPERSONAL APPEARANCE
Page two ot three
AND PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENrS AND THINGS

AT TRIAL OR HEARING AND DECLARATION
LPLAINTIFF/PETITIONER: Stephen N. Gaggero CASENUMBER:

-
BC 109521
DEFENDANT)RESpONDENT:StevenSchlein,JohnStein,Veni
PROOF OF SERVICE OF CIVIL SUBPOENA (DUCES TECUM)
FOR PERSONAL APPEARANCE AND PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS
AND THINGS AT TRIAL OR HEARING AND DECLARATION
1. 1 served this Civil Subpoena (Duces Tecum) for Personal Appearance and Production
of Documents and Things at Trial or Hearing and Declaration by personally delivering a

copy to the person served as follows:
a. Person served (name); Stephen M. Gaggero, aka Stephen M. Blanchard

b.Addresswhereserved:100WilshireBlvd. Suite1940,SantaMonica,CA
90401
C. Dateofclelivery:March29,2001
ctTimeofdelivery: 12:30 p.m.
a Witness fees (check one):
(1) were offered ordemanded

and paid. Amount$
(2) were not demanded or paid.
f. Feeforservicw $
______________________
_________________
2. I received this subpoena for service on (date):

3. Person serving:
a. LXINot a registered California process server.
b. UCalifornia sheriff or marshal.
URegisteredCaliforniaprocess server.
d. UEmployee or independent contractor of a registered California process server.
e.UExemptfromregistrationunderBusinessandProfessionsCode
C.
section22350(b).
f. URegistered professional photocopier.
p. UIExempt from registration under Business and Professions Code section 22451.
h. Name, address, telephone number, and, if appUcable, county of registration and number:
1 declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State (For California sheriff or marshal
use only)
ofCaliforniathattheforegoingistrueand correct. I certify that the foregoing is
true and correct.
Date: March ). C( , 2001 Date:
fr
4sf
_____________
(IGNATURE) (SIGNATURE)
CraigJ.Stein
982(a)(15.I)[RevJanuery PROOF
OF SERVICE OF CIVIL SUBPOENA (DUCES TECUM) FOR
Pagethreecf three
PERSONAL APPEARANCE AND PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS

AND THINGS AT TRIAL OR HEARING AND DECLARATION
ATTACHMENT 2 PAGE 1
-
1.FederalTaxIdentificationNumber;
2. Any andalldocumentsreflectingcheckingorsavingsaccountsof
StephenM.Gaggero,akaStephenM.Blanchard(Gaggero),in
bank,savingsandloan,creditunion,orothercommercial
institution;nameandaddressofeachinstitution;jointor
individualaccounts;presentbalancesineachaccount;last
depositineachaccount;lastwithdrawalfromeachaccount;
3.Any andalldocumentsreflectinganyotheraccountsubjectto
Gaggerosdisposal;nameandaddressofeachinstitution;other
person(s)withaccesstoaccounts;typeofaccounts;lastdeposit
ineachaccount;lastwithdrawalfromeachaccount;
4. Any andalldocumentsreflectinganysafedepositboxof
Gaggero;nameandaddressofinstitution;otherperson(s)having
accesstoit;anyaccesstoanotherpersonssafedepositbox;
whatiskeptinbox(s);
5.Anyandalldocumentsreflectingamountofcashcurrentlyin
thepossessionofGaggero;
6.Anyandalldocumentsreflectingmake,model,year,and
licensenumberofvehicle(s)ofGaggero;amountowedon
vehicle(s),ifany;towhompaymentsmake;placevehicle(s)kept;
7.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingofficeequipment,
furnishings,supplies;value;wherekept;
8.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingmachinery,
fixtures,andprofessionalequipmentandsuppliesnotlisted
previously;value;wherekept;
9.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectinginventory;value;
wherekept;
10.Any andalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingtools;value;
wherekept;
11.AnyandalldocumentsreflectingownershipbyGaggeroasto
stocks,bonds,certificates,treasurybills,moneymarket,orany
othertypeofsecurity;inwhosenames;wherelocated;
12.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingownershipof
promissorynotes,drafts,billsofexchange,orothercommercial
paper;inwhosenames;wherelocater1
1
ATTACHMENT 2 PAGE &
-
13.Any and all documents reflecting Ownership of savings orothergovernment

bondsofGaggero;i.nwhosenames;wherelocated;
14.AnyandalldocumentsreflectingGaggerosownershipof
patents,inventions,tradenames,trademarks,copyrights,
franchises1 etc.; where located;

15.AnyandalldocumentsreflectingGaggerosclaimsagainst
otherpersonsorcompanies;amounts;howclaimsarose;namesand
addressesofpersonsinvolved;
16.Anyandalldocumentsreflectingmortgagesonrealor
personalpropertyofGaggero;descriptionsofproperty;amount(s)
ofmortgage(s);
17.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingwarehouse
receipts,billsoflading,documentsoftitle,etc.;
18.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingjudgments;
againstwhom;amounts;
19.Anyandalldocumentsreflectingamountsofmoneyowedby
otherpersonstoGaggero;namesandaddressesofsuchpersons;
whenpayable;lastpaymentsreceived;howdebtsarose;evidence
ofdebtssuchasnotes;locationofanynotes;
20.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingmoneyowedbyany
publicentity,suchasincometaxrefundorclaimwhichwillbe
paid;whenpaymentexpected;
21.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingannuity,
retirement,orpensionplans;namesofcompanies;amountsof
policies;totalannualpremiumsonpolicies;lengthoftime
policiesineffect;anymoneyborrowedagainstpolicies;current
cashloanvaluesofpolicies;wherekept;
22.Anyandalldocumentsreflectinganypropertynotmentioned
above owned by Gaggero;

23.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingtotalassets;
totaldebts;
24.Anyandalldocumentsreflectinganythingofvaluewhichis
beingheldbyanotherpersonforGaggero;nameandaddressof
person;descriptionofproperty;
25.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectinganytransfer,
sale,gift,orotherdispositionofrealorpersonalproperty
duringlastyear;describeproperty;datesoftransferor
disposition;considerationreceived;
2
ATTACHMENT 2 PAGE 3
-
26.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingpaymentstoany
creditornotpreviouslymentioned;
27.AnyandalldocumentsofGaggeroreflectingtotalaverage
monthlyexpenses;howmet;
28.Thebooks,ledgers,files,etc.ofanyotherbusinessin
whichGaggerohasaninterest;thesebooksandrecordsshall
include,butnotbelimitedto,generalledgers,accounts
receivableledgers,accountspayable,balancesheetsandprofit
andlossstatementsfromJanuary1,1995,tothepresent;
29.Anyandalldocumentsreflectingmonthlyrentpaymentsmade
byGaggero;
30.AnyandalldocumentsreflectingaleasebyGaggero;
31.Anyandalldocumentsreflectingcontractsorjobordersof
Gaggero;saidjobcontractsanddocumentsmustinclude,butnot
belimitedto,thenameandaddressofthepartyissuingthejob
totheabovefromJanuary1,1995,tothepresent;
32.AnyandalJ.documentsreflectingpaymentstoGaggerofroma
jobfromJanuary1,1995,tothepresent;
33.Anyandalldocumentsreflectingtheownershipinterestin
anybusinessofGaggero,includingsoleproprietorship,
partnership,andcorporationfromJanuary1,1995,tothe
present;thesedocumentsshouldinclude,butnotbelimitedto,
stockcertificates,minutes,bylaws,corporateresolutions,etc.;
34.AnyandallstateandfederaltaxreturnsofGaggeroforthe
yearsof1995,1996andl997.1998,1999,2000.
35.Anyandalldocumentsregardingrealpropertycommonlyknown
as:
(a)5].1OceanFrontWalk,Venice,California;
(b)517OceanFrontWalk,Venice,California;
(c)523OceanFrontWalk,Venice,California;
(d)601OceanFrontWalk,Venice,California;
(e)33222PacificCoastHwy.,Malibu,California.
36.Anyandalldocumentsregardingfourparcelsofrealproperty
inVentura,California,legallydescribedas:
3
ATTACHMENT2 PAGE4
ThatportionofSuidivision0oftheRancho
ExMissionofSanBuenaventura,TractNo.1,
intheCountyofVentura,Stateof
California,aspermaprecordedinBook2,
Page103ofMiscellaneousRecords.
TheAssessorsIdentificationNumbersfortheVenturaproperties
are:035010015,0350160025,0350160035,and
-
03506045.
37.AnyandalldocumentsregardingGaggerosacquisitionofan
interestineachofthepropertiesdescribedinParagraphs35and
36above.
38Anyandalldocumentsregardingthesaleortransferof
GaggerosinterestinthepropertiesdescribedinParagraphs35
and36above.
39.AnyandalldocumentsregardingGaggerosinterestinor
relationshipwith:
(a)511OFWL.P.;
(b)GingerbreadCourt,L.P.;
Cc)BluHouseLLC,aCalifornialiabilitycompany;
(ci)BoardwalkSunset,LLC,aCalifornialimitedliability
company;
(e)MonticelloProperties,aLuxembourgcorporation;
(f)SulphurMt.Land&LivestockCo.
40.Anyandalldocumentsregardingauthorityor
authorizationforGaggerotoactonbehalfof,asagentfor,or
todirectotherstoactfororonbehalfofthefollowing
entities:
(a)511OFWL.P.;
(b)GingerbreadCourt,L.P.;
(c)BluHouseLLCaCalifornialiabilitycompany;
(d)BoardwalkSunset,LLC,aCalifornialimitedliability
company;
(e)MonticelloProperties,aLuxembourg corporation;
(f)SulphurMt.Land&LivestockCo.
H\7457.Oo2\os.ExR
4
ATTACHMENT2- PAGE5
41.Anyandalldocumentsregardinganylawsuit,and/ orarbitrationinwhich
StephenM.Gaggero,akaStephenM.Blanchardhasbeenaplaintiffordefendant
fortheyears1990,1991,1992,1993,1994,1995,1996,1997,1998,19992000,
2001.Thedocumentstobeproducedunderthiscategoryinclude,butarenot
limitedtodocumentsrefelctingwhetherStephenM.GaggeroakaStephenM.
Blanchardisaplaintiff,defendant,claimant,orrespondent.
45.ThedriverslicensceforStephenM.xSaggnxGaggeroakaStephenM.
Blanchard.
GRANTDEED
I NOT A PUBLrc RECOEpJ

For a valuable consideration, receipt of which is hereby acknowledged, Stephen H. Gsqgero, who acquired title as Stephen N.
Blanchard, a single man, grants to
Gingerbread Court L.P.
the following described real property in the County of Los Angeles, State of
California:
LOTS273 AND 275 IN BLOCK S OF TEE GOLDEN BAY TRACT, IN TEE CITY OF LOS ANGELES, AS
PER MAP RECORDED INBOOK2,PAGE(S) 13 OF MAPS, IN THE OFFICE OP THE .3OUNTY RECORDER
OFSAID COUNTY.
Assessors # 428629-13
1 9 F&
Dated:
Ste en N. aggero
State of California
County of tarnnqetfl 2 V5n,L C
/19f
On
(date), the undersigned, a notary public in and for said state, pornonaily appeared Stephen H. Gaggero, personally known
to me (or proved to me on the basis of satisfactory evidence) to be the person(s) whose name(s) is/are subscribed to the within
instrument and acknowledged to me that he/she/they executed the same in his/bar/their authorized capacity(ies), and that by
his/her/their signature(s) on the instrument the person Cs), or the entity upon behalf of which the person(s) acted, executed the
instrument.
Witness my hand and official seal.
traiNotcryptaecoion
- - as
Recording requested by and *

return to:
*
Joseph J. Praske *
2802SantaMonicaBlvd.*
SantaMonica,CA90404*
83_
461433
1IPMMAR20I998
LZI
II
a
Uk Tax StatrmeS to K&wn Mdre Abo
I
STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT
StatementDateAPR2701
AccountNu.rrther1100037672
BeginningBalance$3,818.07
Deposits+ $0.00
Withdrawals ServiceChargesInterestPaidf
EndingBalance
Enclosures
EA$YCiECKING
Late Activity
NOACTIVITY
Nmber FDIC
44
Jackson Federal Bank
ingyourfincjajfuo of
j-ko, oo1qf fO,,o,,,00
OII) Oodo6odio,y
SANTA MONICA OFFICE

1101 MONTANA AVE
SANTA MONICA CA 90403
1800--836--67 61
STEPHEN MGAGGERO
2802SANTAMONICA BLVD
SANTA MONICA CA 90404-2410
$0.00
$0.00
$0.00
$3,818.07
0
Page1of1
WithdrawalsDeposits
StatementPeriodMAR2401thruAPR2701
Daily Balance
ef1Rpft5j
/
Genova Holdings LLC
cEXHEBrr
___
WWWDIOROOCOM
Certificate f Membership
This certifies ti,at Stephen M. Ga. gero is the registered holder of a twenty
percent (20%) rnembershp Enterest in Geova Koldgs LLC.
Assignment of a membecsp inte st Is prohibited wtthout the whtten consent of a majonty in
interest of all members. An isignment that is made with such consent wW
entitle the assignee to receive, to the extor: assgned, only the distib n to which the
assignor would be entited. A member sh not cease to be a member upon assignment of all his
or her membership interest An a ;signee shad not berne a member.
March 31, 1998
Manager
JUNd&2t1 1B11 S J S S 310 4?? 7653 P. 01/05

-.
RECFTVEfl
MAY21ZUOI
DEPT. 1A
1 Steven Rv Garcia (State Rar No. 110479)
Greta T. utton (State Bar No. 103079)
2 KNAIP, PETERSEN & CLARKE
A Professional Corporation
3 500 North Brand Boulevard
Twentieth Floor
(818)547-5000 &rGIIB
5 acsirmle: (818) 547-5329
____
JQttN A. CLAiJc$ C,.p.x
4 Glendale, California 91203-1904 MAY

Deponent
6 Attorneys for Plaintiff o-o

Stephen M. Gaggero Date Rptr v r Akin DPu7v
WWWIDEPOBOOK.COM
7
8 SUPERiOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CAUFORNIA
9 FOR THE COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES
10
11 Stephen M. Gaggero, also known as ) NO. BC 109521
Stephen M. Blanchard,
12 j Hon. Murray Gross, Commissioner
Plaintiff, I
13 j Date: May23, 2001
v. ) Time: 9:00 a.m.
14 Dept: 1A
Steven Schlein, John Stein, Venice Northj
15 Beach Coalition, Tuck Mulligan, (PROPOSED) ORDER
16 Defendants. ON MOTION FOR CONTrNUANCE
________________________ AND FOR PROTECT WE ORDER
17
18
19 The motions filed by plaintiff Stephen M. Gaggero (Gaggero) Came on
20 regularly for hearing on May 15, 2001, at 9:00 a.m. in Department lA of the
above21 entitled court located at 111 North Hill Street, Los Angeles 90012 before the
Honorable
22 Murray Gross, Commissioner, Presiding. Plaintiff and moving party Gaggero
was
.
23 represented by his counsel, Greta T. Hutton of Knapp, Petersen & Clarke. The
defendants
24 and judgment creditors were represented by their counsel Craig 3. Stein of
Gelfand &
25 Stein.
26 Upon consideration of the papers filed in support and in opposition to the
PP. 2
TERSEN motions, the argument of counsel, and good cause appearing therefore,
the court hereby
lARgE 28 orders as follows:
ORIGJNAL.,
JU!NiOdI&Ji iWll S JSS3104??7663P.02/05
1 MOTION FOL&CONTJNTJANCE
2 1. The judgment debtor examination of Gaggero shall be conducted on May 23,
3 2001, at 9:00 a.m. in Department IA of the above-entitled court located at 111 North
Hill
4 Street, Los Angeles 90012. ,4 4e4<4
5 2. The bench warant issued pu April 16, 2001, sheH-beie4amab4e.en May 23,
6 20014h7 L7
7 MOTION FOR A PROTECT WE ORDER
S Gaggeros motion for a protective order is granted in part and denied in part.
9 The court hereby grants the protective order as follows:
10 1. No tax returns or related documentation or information shall be produced.
ii Accordingly, the subpoena is quashed insofar as it seeks production of documents
[2 regarding Gagger&sSederal tax identification number -]atwJ
n-Ic,13
(11 20), federal and state tax returns (J 34).

14 2. No disclosures of Gaggeros financial information shall be made to any
15 person other than counse] for the judgmen ireditars, the judgment creditors and
persons
16 acting under the direct supervision of the judgment creditors counsel in the collection
of
17 the judgment of the above-entitled case.
18 3. Disclosures of information revealed at the judgment debtor examination may
19 be made to the judgment creditors for the purpose of aiding in the enforcement of the
20 judgment but may not be made to third parties or their counsel.
21 4. A copy of this protective order shall be included in the transcript of the
22 judgment debtor examination.
23 5. In the event that third parties attend the judgment debtor examination,
24 Gaggero may write the answers to questions regarding confidential financial
information
25 and hand the response to counsel for the judgment creditors rather than giving an oral
26 response.
27 The motion for a protective order was denied in part as follows:
ARKE 28 6. Gaggero shall be required to produce his drivers license in response to
2
_______
JUN226118:116J6S31847775b3 P.83/85
I paragraph 45 of the subpoena;

2 7. The transcript of the proceedings need not be marked confidential;
3 however, a copy of this protective order shall be included in the transcript.
4 8. No persons are precluded from attending the judgment debtor examination.
6 Dated:________
-Wn. Mufraytross, tAthssoJEi Los Angeles Superior Cou
8
9
10
I
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
pp,
ERSEN
JbRKE
28
JU+202001 1B:11 0 3 0 6 310 4?? ?S63 P.04/US
1 PROOF 01? SERVICE

Gaggero v, Schlein
2 L.A.S.C. Case No. BC 109521
3 STATE OF CALifORNIA, COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES:
4 I am employed in the County of Los Angeles, State of California. I am over the age of
18 years and am not a party to the within action. My business address is Magnum Courier
Service, 3747
5 Cahuenga Blvd., Studio City, California 91604. On May 21, 2001,1 caused the
foregoin8 document(s) described as (PROPOSED) ORDER ON MOTION FOR
CONTINUANCE
6 AND FOR PROThCT1VE ORDER to be sewed on the interested parties in this action
as follows:
by placing C the original a true copy thereof enclosed in sealed envelopes addressed S as
follows:
9 SEE ATTACHED SERViCE LIST
10
Q BYM.4JL: I sealed and placed such envelope for collection and mailing lobe
deposited
Ii in the mail on the same day in the ordinary course of business at Glendale, California.
The envelope was mailed with postage thereon fully prepaid. I am readily familiar with
12 this firms practice of collecting and processing correspondence for mailing. It is
deposited with the U.S. Postal Service on that same day in the ordinary course of
13 business.
14 Q BY OVERNIGHT COURIER: I caused such envelope to be placed for collection

and
delivery on this date in accordance With standard delivery
15 procedures.
16 D BY FAX: In addition to service by mail, I transmitted a copy of the foregoing
document(s) this date via telecopier to the facsimile numbers shown above.
17 BY PERSONAL SERVICE: I personally delivered such envelope by hand to the
18 offices of the addressee(s).
19 Person with whom left; title or relationship to person served:
20 Date and Time of Delivery:
21
{State] I declare underpenalty ofperjury under the laws of the State of California
22 that the foregoing is true and correct.
23
Q [Federalj I declare under penalty ofpejury that the foregoing is true and correct.
24
25 Executed on May 21, 2001, at Glendale, California.
Q)ecg 4 Ca/k
26
Magnum..Coujfer Name
rERSEN 27
LARKE 28
(cy?
JUN-I&-111 18:I 6 J
c s 31 477 7663 P.5/5
I
I
Gaggero v. ScI:leih
BC 109521
3
4 SERVICE LIST
Craig .1. Stein Esq.

5 Gelfand & Stein LLP Tele: (310) 479-0044
11755 Wilshire Blvd., Sitjte 1230 Fax: (310) 477-7663
6 Los Angeles CA 90025
7
8
9
l0
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
LPP,
ERSEN 27
28
TQTFL P.5

Gaggero Debtor Exam

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Gaggero Debtor Exam

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ORIGINAL

GLOBAL LEGAL SERVICES

5701 So. EASTERN AVENUE, SUrE 530

HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC- GLOBALSERVICES- 800.697.3210

16 Q. And the estate planningvehiclewastheseller

25Q. Andarebothofthoseindividuals canyou

3Q. Alternatively,IwouldaskthatOU Contact

HUTCHINGSCOURTREPORTERS,LLC- GLOBALSERVICES- 800.697.3210

3 such as the Broad Beach property?

1andImassuming thiswasjustanassumption thatone

4790044 FAXNO.: 3104777663 D&a5MD

ATTORNEY FOR (Name): Defendants

North Hill Street

CIVIL SUBPOENA (DUCES TECUM) for Personal Appearance

ed:March 29, 2001

Time: 9:00a m.LJ Dept.:1ADiv.:J Room:

/ J7SNATURE OF PERSON ISSUING SUBPOENA)

PLAINTIFF/PEIfl9ONER: Stephen N. GaggeroCASE NUMBER:

the attached affidavit or declaration LXI the following declaration:

1. 1. the undersigned, declare I am the

plaintiff defendant fl petitioner fl respondent

attorney for (specify): Judgment other (specifr):

(Proof of service on page4345 / SUBPOENAING PARTY)

AND PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENrS AND THINGS

LPLAINTIFF/PETITIONER: Stephen N. Gaggero CASENUMBER:

of Documents and Things at Trial or Hearing and Declaration by personally delivering a

a. Person served (name); Stephen M. Gaggero, aka Stephen M. Blanchard

ctTimeofdelivery: 12:30 p.m.

a Witness fees (check one):

(1) were offered ordemanded

2. I received this subpoena for service on (date):

b. UCalifornia sheriff or marshal.

OF SERVICE OF CIVIL SUBPOENA (DUCES TECUM) FOR

PERSONAL APPEARANCE AND PRODUCTION OF DOCUMENTS

13.Any and all documents reflecting Ownership of savings orothergovernment

franchises1 etc.; where located;

above owned by Gaggero;

I NOT A PUBLrc RECOEpJ

County of tarnnqetfl 2 V5n,L C

Recording requested by and *

SANTA MONICA OFFICE

JUNd&2t1 1B11 S J S S 310 4?? 7653 P. 01/05

JQttN A. CLAiJc$ C,.p.x

4 Glendale, California 91203-1904 MAY

6 Attorneys for Plaintiff o-o

JU!NiOdI&Ji iWll S JSS3104??7663P.02/05

(11 20), federal and state tax returns (J 34).

I paragraph 45 of the subpoena;

JU+202001 1B:11 0 3 0 6 310 4?? ?S63 P.04/US

1 PROOF 01? SERVICE

14 Q BY OVERNIGHT COURIER: I caused such envelope to be placed for collection

c s 31 477 7663 P.5/5

Craig .1. Stein Esq.

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