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#1
04212009
fsx
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Developinggoodlogicskills
Helloeveryone,
Iwouldliketodevelop
mylogicskillsbecause
Ifeeltheyarequiteon
theloweraverage
level.
IbelieveIneedsome
lowlevelthinkingskill
withfewinstrumentsto
solvethetricks.
Apr2009
29
Canyousuggestme
sometechniquestodo
so?Booktitlesarevery
welcometoo...
Bestregardsandthankyouinadvance!
FSX
#2
04212009
Snafuist
CompleteBeginner
JoinDate:
Posts:
Feb2009
312
Booktitlesareverywelcometoo...
Thestandardtextonthetopicis"IntroductiontoMathematicalLogic"
byElliottMendelson.
Citingfromthebookcover:
propositionallogic
firstorderlogic
firstordernumbertheoryandtheincompletenessand
undecidabilitytheoremsofGdel,Rosser,ChurchandTarski
axiomaticsettheory
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/abriefhistoryofcprogrammingcom/115094developinggoodlogicskills.html
1/8
11/13/2016
Developinggoodlogicskills
theoryofcomputability
Ifyouwantthefocustobeoncomputationallogic,see
http://www.ps.unisb.de/courses/clss08/script/icl.pdf
Greets,
Philip
Allthingsbeginassourcecode.
Sourcecodebeginswithanemptyfile.
TaoTeChip
#3
04212009
MK27
OriginallyPostedbyfsx
spuriousconceit
JoinDate:
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Posts:
Jul2008
segmentationfault
8,300
IwouldliketodevelopmylogicskillsbecauseIfeeltheyarequite
ontheloweraveragelevel.
IbelieveIneedsomelowlevelthinkingskillwithfewinstruments
tosolvethetricks.
Canyousuggestmesometechniquestodoso?Booktitlesarevery
welcometoo...
Makethemprogrammingbooks.Yourlogicalthinkingwillimprove
withpractice.Computerprogrammingislogicjustlookatwhat
yourcomputeris.
IabsolutelyandverystronglydisagreewithSnafuistaboutthis.You
willbemuchmuchbetteroffputtingtwiceasmuchtimeinto
K&R(orwhatever)thanspendingthattimereadingphilosophy
(evenmathphilosophy).
Evenmost"algorithmanalysis"andabstractionisfarremovedfrom
realprogramming,althopeoplewhofinditinterestingwillofcourse
argueendlesslyabouthowimportantandfundamentalitis.Itisnot
itmayormaynotbeusefultoyouafteryoudevelopsome
programmingexpertise.Otherwise,itseemstome(byobservation)
thatinmany(couldbemost!)casesthisleadstomoreconfusion,
notless.
Ilovephilosophy(andbooze).Ilovecomputerprogramming(and
driving).Hmmm.
ActuallytobehonestIdonotlikedriving
Cprogrammingresources:
GNUCFunctionandMacroIndexglibcreferencemanual
TheCBookniceonlinelearnerguide
CurrentISOdraftstandard
CCANnewCPANlikeopensourcelibraryrepository
3(different)GNUdebuggertutorials:#1#2#3
cpwikiourwikionsourceforge
04212009
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/abriefhistoryofcprogrammingcom/115094developinggoodlogicskills.html
#4
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Developinggoodlogicskills
Bladactania
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Posts:
Feb2009
278
Ilovedriving.Andprogramming.
Astothediscussion,Itakesomewhatofamiddleground.Ithinkto
beabletoprogrammorethanthemostbasicprograms,youhaveto
alreadyhavesomelogicskills.Learningtoprogrambuildsonthe
fundamentallogicalthinkingskillsthatexistalreadywithinthe
aspiringprogrammer.Thatbeingsaid,Idon'tthinkthatreadingthe
bookSnafuistsuggestedwillhelpyoudeveloptheseskillseither,
althoughIdothinkthatmathematicallogicisessentialtocomputer
programming,onceagain,Ithinkabasemustalreadyexist.Mostly
thisbaseisbuiltinandishardtodevelopbylearning.Onemust
havealogicalbraintobeginwith.GiventhefactthattheOPison
thisforumandaskingforhelpinthisarea,Iwouldassumethatthe
individualisblessedwithatleastabasiclogicunderstanding.
Inmyexperience,Ihavefoundthatworkingbasiclogicpuzzlesisthe
bestwaytotrainthemindtothinklogically(youcanfindthemat
anybookstore).Theyarefunandyoucanstartsmallandgetharder
asyougo.Onceyouhavegotyourbrainchurningthroughthosewith
ease,that'swhentostartreadingbookstofurtheryour
understanding.
#5
04212009
Fencesitter!Ijustwanttodrivemypointhomealittlebitfurther.
MK27
spuriousconceit
JoinDate:
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Jul2008
segmentationfault
8,300
OriginallyPostedbyBladactania
Idothinkthatmathematicallogicisessentialtocomputer
programming,onceagain,Ithinkabasemustalreadyexist.Mostly
thisbaseisbuiltinandishardtodevelopbylearning.Onemust
havealogicalbraintobeginwith.
Irememberseeingaposteraboutthementallyhandicappedthatsaid
"Anyhumanbeingwhocanspeakiscapableoflearningmath",which
Ihadneverthoughtabout,butIguessLOGICALLY,thatwouldbe(and
apparentlyis)true.
Ifyouwanttodopuzzlestoimproveyourabilitytothinklogically,I
betthebestsortof"puzzle"forthiswouldbetomakeapuzzleusing
acomputerprogram.
Ifyoudon'tknowwhattheyare,google"logicgatesandtransistors".
That'showyourcomputerworks.Thecomputerdoesnotimplement
differentschoolsofthoughtaboutit,either.Theclosestyouwillever
betorawlogic(whichisanextrahumanthingfromwhichmathis
abstracted)istoprogramacomputer.Ifthat'swhatyouwanttodo,
doinganythingelsewillbetakingastepbackward(exceptthatit
providesahistoricalcontextfortheexistenceofcomputers,whichis
interestingandenlightening).
ps.ImaybeahypocritsinceIalreadyhaveaBAthatinvolved
logicalthinkingstuff...anddon'tconsiderthattohavebeenawasteof
time
LasteditedbyMK2704212009at11:12AM.
Cprogrammingresources:
GNUCFunctionandMacroIndexglibcreferencemanual
TheCBookniceonlinelearnerguide
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/abriefhistoryofcprogrammingcom/115094developinggoodlogicskills.html
3/8
11/13/2016
Developinggoodlogicskills
TheCBookniceonlinelearnerguide
CurrentISOdraftstandard
CCANnewCPANlikeopensourcelibraryrepository
3(different)GNUdebuggertutorials:#1#2#3
cpwikiourwikionsourceforge
#6
04212009
Bladactania
RegisteredUser
JoinDate:
Posts:
Feb2009
278
Ifthegoalistosimplyimprovelogicalthinking,thenusingcomputer
programmingislikelearninghowtobuildcarstoimproveyour
understandingofmetalworking.
Ihaveseentheposteryoumentioned(oratleastavariation)and
whatitsaysistrue,butIdoubtamentallyhandicappedpersoncould
learnadvancedcalculusorcontributetotheadvancementof
mathematicaltheory.Theymightbeabletolearnaddition,
multiplicationandmaybeevenbasicalgebradependingonthelevel
oftheirhandicap.
Agoodwaytothinkaboutitistoturnitaroundtheotherwayand
thinkabout,sayart.IcanstudyarttillI'mblueintheface.Ican
practicepaintinguntilmyfingersbleed.Butnoneofmyworkwill
everbehangingintheLouvre!Tobeabletoproducegreatworksof
art,yestherehastobetrainingandeducationandpractice.But
therehastobeafundamental,builtinskillalreadytheretobuild
upon.Italldependsonthewayanindividualsbrainisbuilt!
#7
04212009
elwad
RegisteredUser
JoinDate:
Posts:
Apr2009
187
itsbesttoreadK&RlikeIMdoingnowIalsolacksome
programminglogic
butreadingK&Rmademeimprovelilbitandimonlyatpage30
eventhoughittakestimeunderstandingstuffbutitsworthitinthe
endlikethereisasayaskthepatientthanaskingthedoctor:P.
#8
04212009
whiteflags
Lurking
JoinDate:
Location:
Posts:
Thereisacollectionoflogicpuzzlesoveratlogicpuzzles.com.While
thisisnotdirectlyrelatedtocomputerprogrammingIthink,I
supposethatsitewouldhelpyoufsx.
Apr2006
UnitedStates
9,086
#9
04212009
MK27
OriginallyPostedbyBladactania
spuriousconceit
JoinDate:
ButnoneofmyworkwilleverbehangingintheLouvre!Tobeable
toproducegreatworksofart,yestherehastobetrainingand
educationandpractice.
Jul2008
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/abriefhistoryofcprogrammingcom/115094developinggoodlogicskills.html
4/8
11/13/2016
Developinggoodlogicskills
Location:
Posts:
segmentationfault
8,300
ThereasonnothingyoudowilleverbeintheLouvreisbecausethe
Louvreisamuseum.It'sabouthistory.It'salsofullofmediocrity.
Ofcoursetherehastobetrainingandeducationandpractice!Itmay
neverend(Ikindoflikeit)!Butifyouareinterestedinformallogic,
studyit.DONOTstudyitjustbecauseyouthinkitwillhelpwithyour
programming.Thefactthattheybothappealtothesamekindsof
peopleisnotsurprisingthefactthatpeoplefeeltheyarethesumof
theirpartsisalsonotsurprising.Butpeopleshouldnotbetold"an
understandingofformallogicisessentialtocomputerprogramming"
thatisalie.Formallogicisit'sownfieldwithit'sown
institutionalizedlanguageandmethods.
Mypointaboutthementalhandicappedisthatyoualreadyhavea
logicalbrainnobodyhastomakeitoverthatway.
ps.thebookSharkereferstointhenextpostsoundsperfectto
me...exceptforthatlastsentence,whichisabittroubling.
LasteditedbyMK2704212009at12:29PM.
Cprogrammingresources:
GNUCFunctionandMacroIndexglibcreferencemanual
TheCBookniceonlinelearnerguide
CurrentISOdraftstandard
CCANnewCPANlikeopensourcelibraryrepository
3(different)GNUdebuggertutorials:#1#2#3
cpwikiourwikionsourceforge
#10
04212009
Sharke
RegisteredUser
JoinDate:
Location:
Posts:
Jun2008
NYC
303
I'malwaysdisappointedwhenIpickabookofftheshelfthatpurports
tobeaboutcomputeralgorithmsandyetwhenIopenittheredoesn't
seemtobeonelineofcode,justabunchofverycomplicatedlooking
math.
Ihaveseenacoupleofgoodnonmathematicalbooksonalgorithms
however.OneIhave"PracticalAlgorithms"byAndrewBinstockand
JohnRexisintendedforthosewithoutamathematicalbackground
whojustwanttolearnsomebasicalgorithmicskillswithouttheegg
headedsymbolictreatmentfoundinmoreformaltexts.Itcovers
thingslikelists,trees,hashing,compression,stringsearchesetc.
AllitrequiresisabasicworkingknowledgeofC.Mostofthebookis
code,withshortishexplanationsbeforeandafter.Justreading
throughsomeoneelse'scodewillbeenormouslybeneficialsinceyou
learnhowtofollowandinterpretcodelogicandyouwilllearnmany
paradigmsalongtheway.Inthecaseofthisbook,I'malsolearning
alotabouthowtotrackdownbugssincetheprintedcodedoesn't
workproperlyinafewcases.
#11
04212009
Bladactania
RegisteredUser
JoinDate:
Posts:
Feb2009
278
OriginallyPostedbySharke
I'malwaysdisappointedwhenIpickabookofftheshelfthat
purportstobeaboutcomputeralgorithmsandyetwhenIopenit
theredoesn'tseemtobeonelineofcode,justabunchofvery
complicatedlookingmath.
http://cboard.cprogramming.com/abriefhistoryofcprogrammingcom/115094developinggoodlogicskills.html
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Developinggoodlogicskills
Computeralgorithmshaslittletonothingtodowithactualcode.The
implementationofanalgorithmislanguagedependent.Granteda
littlepseudocodemightbehelpful,butastudyofalgorithms
specifically,doesn'trequirecode.Whenwritingaprogram,you
shouldknowthealgorithmBEFOREyouwriteanycode.Thealgorithm
isthestepbystepprocessofsolvingaparticularproblem.
AllitrequiresisabasicworkingknowledgeofC.Mostofthebook
iscode,withshortishexplanationsbeforeandafter.Justreading
throughsomeoneelse'scodewillbeenormouslybeneficialsince
youlearnhowtofollowandinterpretcodelogicandyouwilllearn
manyparadigmsalongtheway.
Allitrequires?SosomeoneneedstolearnCbeforelearningabout
algorithms?Seemsbackwardstome!
Inthecaseofthisbook,I'malsolearningalotabouthowtotrack
downbugssincetheprintedcodedoesn'tworkproperlyinafew
cases.
Thisdisturbsmeaswell!Grantedtherearetyposetcinevery
programmingtext,butthereshouldbenomorethan2or3inan
entiretext!
#12
04212009
MK27
spuriousconceit
JoinDate:
Location:
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Jul2008
segmentationfault
8,300
Bladactania,itwouldbestupidorcrazytotryreadingabout
computeralgorithmsifyoudidnothaveatleastsomegroundingin
atleastonelanguage.
Howanalgorithmispresenteddoesn'tmatterthe"egghead"stuff
Sharkereferstoisprobablytheworstwaytodoitthough.Ibelieve
thepurposeisgenerallynotexplanatoryanywayit'sacademic
analysis.
Soallthatbeingsaid,thebestandmostpracticalexplanationofa
processisboundtobeinrealcodeplus,youcancountonthefact
thatthesourceisanactualprogrammer.Beatthatlogic...
Cprogrammingresources:
GNUCFunctionandMacroIndexglibcreferencemanual
TheCBookniceonlinelearnerguide
CurrentISOdraftstandard
CCANnewCPANlikeopensourcelibraryrepository
3(different)GNUdebuggertutorials:#1#2#3
cpwikiourwikionsourceforge
#13
04212009
zhankal
OriginallyPostedbyelwad
RegisteredUser
JoinDate:
Apr2009
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Location:
Posts:
Turkey
12
itsbesttoreadK&RlikeIMdoingnowIalsolacksome
programminglogic
butreadingK&Rmademeimprovelilbitandimonlyatpage30
eventhoughittakestimeunderstandingstuffbutitsworthitinthe
endlikethereisasayaskthepatientthanaskingthedoctor:P.
+1
K&Risoneofthebestbookswhichdevelopyou,ofcourseifyou
practicewhatyouread.
#14
04212009
zhankal
OriginallyPostedbyfsx
RegisteredUser
JoinDate:
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Apr2009
Turkey
12
Helloeveryone,
IwouldliketodevelopmylogicskillsbecauseIfeeltheyarequite
ontheloweraveragelevel.
IbelieveIneedsomelowlevelthinkingskillwithfewinstruments
tosolvethetricks.
FSX
Ifyouthinkso,youshoulddevelopyourmathematical&analytical
skills.
#15
04212009
Bladactania
RegisteredUser
JoinDate:
Posts:
Feb2009
278
Question:Writeanalgorithmforsolvingthefollowingproblem:A
humanlikerobotissittinginachairattheendofahallway.Atthe
otherendofthehallwayisaball.Gettherobottopickuptheball
andsitbackdown.
Theanswerrequiresabsolutelynoprogrammingknowledge
whatsoever.Analgorithmcouldbeoneabouthowtobakeacake,
gettothelocalgrocerystore,orbuildingahouse.Itdoesn'thaveto
becomputer,orreallyevenmathrelatedatall.
fromdictionary.com
algorithm
/
lg
rm/ShowSpelledPronunciation[alguhrithuhm]
ShowIPA
noun
asetofrulesforsolvingaprobleminafinitenumberofsteps,as
forfindingthegreatestcommondivisor.
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