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Published by the Advanced Media Group and Stan J.

Caterbone Copyright 2016

Stan J. Caterbone
ADVANCED MEDIA GROUPFreedom

From Covert Harassment & Surveillance,


Registered in Pennsylvania

1250 Fremont Street


Lancaster, PA 17603

www.amgglobalentetainmentgroup.com
stancaterbone@gmail.com

EXCLUSIVE Transcripts of Whistleblower Testimonies as


Targeted Individuals of U.S. Sponsored Mind Control and
Related Hearings and Lectures
Published by Advanced Media Group September 17, 2016

______________________________________

TABLE OF CONTENTS
1. Background of Stan J. Caterbone as a Targeted Individual
2. In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom CIA No-Touch Torture Makes
Sense, by Cheryl Welsh 2008

3. Allstate Sworn Testimony of Stan J. Caterbone TRANSCRIPT Volume 2 and


Volume 1 July 12, 2016

4. Transcript of the Richmond City Council Public Hearing of May 19, 2015
Passing a City Resolution 5-2 to Ban Spaced-Based Weapons in Support of the
Many Targeted Individuals Suffering Symptoms of the City.

5. Karen Stewart, NSA Whistleblower and Targeted Individual


6. Julianne McKinney, US Army Intelligence Officer, Whistleblower, and
Targeted Individual

7. 8. Stan J. Caterbone and Advanced Media Group Executive Summary


8. Dr. Nick Begich, Author and Expert Researcher of U.S. Sponsored Mind Control
9. 1975 TESTIMONY FROM DIRECTOR OF CIA STANSFIELD TURNER for the 1975
United States Senate Select Hearings on Mkultra

10. Proposed U.S. Government Settlement for TI via Change.org Petition by Stan
J. Caterbone and Advanced Media Group March 17, 2016 with Affidavit and
Kane Op Ed Letter Sent to President Obama

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Groupand
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Stan J. Caterbone
ADVANCED MEDIA GROUP

Freedom From Covert Harassment & Surveillance,


Registered in Pennsylvania

1250 Fremont Street


Lancaster, PA 17603
www.amgglobalentetainmentgroup.com
stancaterbone@gmail.com

__________________________________
EXCLUSIVE Transcripts of Whistleblower Testimonies as
Targeted Individuals of U.S. Sponsored Mind Control and
Related Hearings and Lectures
________________________________
June 2, 2016

BACKGROUND
Stan J. Caterbone's International Signal & Control or ISC Whistleblowing History and Mind
Control Relationships are outlined in the following statements and declarations, which have already
been proven and verified and have never been specifically contested in any court of law:
Stan J. Caterbone was a Federal Whistleblower in 1987 regarding ISC
The 29 False Arrests and Prosecutorial Misconduct that Stan J. Caterbone was subject to in 1987
through 2015 was an effort to cover-up the allegations made by Stan J. Caterbone in the Spring and
Summer of 1987 after the Meeting of June 23, 1987 with ISC and United Chem Con Executive Larry
Resch.
The ISC Fraud and Sales of Arms to Iraq Story by the ABC News Nightline with Ted Koppel and the
Financial Times of London in May, July, and September of 1991 was most likely initiated or was
corroborated by Lancaster Newspapers reporter Thomas Flannary.
Thomas Flannary's mysterious death in February of 2004 was either murder or was a cover story to
hide the fact that he was a CIA operative used to control the flow of information, disinformation, and
propaganda. It is highly subject that he began his career with Lancaster Newspapers in 1987 and is not
a native Lancastrian.
The ISC merger was not completed until December of 1987, 3 months after the False Arrests of Stan
J. Caterbone.

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The official meeting with the Pennsylvania Securities Commission Agent Howard Eisler in September of
1987, which was solicited by Agent Eisler was an effort to illegally interrogate Stan J. Caterbone without
a legal subpoena.
In the months after the June 23, 1987 meeting with ISC Executive Larry Resch Stan J. Caterbone had
personally solicited a vast array of local, state, and federal officials, including the FBI and Congressman
Robert Walker, PA State Representative Gibson Armstrong for assistance in the retaliation and slander
campaign that was in progress. There is credible linkage between the ISC Scandal, U.S. Sponsored
Mind Control, Stan J. Caterbone's family VICTIMIZATION of the same, and the participation of
LANCASTER COUNTY, PENNSYLVANIA.
The Zook Murder Appeal proves that Lancaster County Detective Michael Landis, Judge James Cullen,
and Judge Farina of the Lancaster County Court of Common Pleas were all involved in U.S. Sponsored
Mind Control before 2004 and before Stan J. Caterbone went public with his VICTIMIZATION of U.S.
Sponsored Mind Control.
Bobby Ray Inman, former director of the National Security Agency (NSA) was on the Board of
Directors of ISC and was involved in U.S. Sponsored Mind Control Technologies through his company
S.A.I.C. Corporation. Bobby Ray Inman would later be selected by Former President Bill Clinton for his
Director of Defense, but would later remove himself due to allegations and public scrutiny for his role in
the ISC scandal.
In the Fall of 1991 Robert Gates was nominated for Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
and during his televised confirmation hearings the was subject to brutal array of questions concerning
his participation in the ISC scandal. He went on to be nominated and later would serve both the Bush
Administrations and the Obama Administrations as Secretary of Defense until resigning in 2011.
There have been at least 3 documented attempts on the life of Stan J. Caterbone; 1987, 1991, and
2004, all attempts at vehicular homicide. Thomas P. Caterbone's passing in 1996 was the result of a
wrongful death claim by Fulton Bank. Samuel A. Caterbone was most likely an KULTRA murder tactic in
Santa Barbara, California on December 25, 1984. Samuel P. Caterbone was most likely the result of an
MKULTRA murder tactic on July 20,2001 in New York city.
The above finding of facts and evidence corroborates a vast conspiracy and criminal enterprise that
violates both civil and criminal RICO statutes and antitrust statutes.
The above would constitute treble damages for Stan J. Caterbone and Advanced Media Group in U.S.
District Courts, specifically in the Eastern District for Pennsylvania Case No. 05-2288, 06-4650, 1402559, and other related cases; and Case No. 08-13373 in the Lancaster County Court of Common
Pleas.

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In Contravention of Conventional Wisdom


CIA no touch torture makes sense
out of mind control allegations
By Cheryl Welsh
January 2008
Cheryl Welsh was invited to speak about mind control allegations at a recent
workshop on ethics and interrogations by the workshop director, Jean Maria Arrigo PhD.
Dr. Arrigo commented on this article:
In CIA No Touch Torture Makes Sense Out of Mind Control Allegations,
Cheryl Welsh provides a valuable overview of methods common to
neuroweapons research and torture interrogation. Her essay is informed by
the multitude of self-identified, experimental targets of neuroweapons
researchers whom she represents. Scholars and journalists who are only able
to track neuroweapons research and interrogation methods through
government documents have biased the consensus reality in favor of
government authorities who deceive the public. We owe thanks to Cheryl
Welsh and her colleagues for their pioneering efforts to penetrate government
deception through the phenomenology of self-identified victims of
neuroweapons.
Jean Maria Arrigo, PhD, is an independent social psychologist and oral historian whose
work gives moral voice to military and intelligence professionals. See, for example,
Arrigo, J.M & Wagner, R. (2007). Torture Is for Amateurs: A Meeting of Psychologists
and Military Interrogators. [Special issue]. Peace and Conflict, 11 (4).

Dedicated to the courageous and kind-hearted


Peggy Fagan of Houston, Texas,
who is enduring the new scientific version of torture.

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Table of contents
Introduction
I. A university professor uncovers CIA no touch torture
II. The beginnings of CIA no touch torture and how it spread
III. What is no touch torture?
IV. An example of no touch torture
V. The long history of U.S. torture
VI. CIA Cold War neuroscience-based mind control research
VII. CIA Cold War nonlethal weapons research
VIII. Why CIA no touch torture has been so successful
IX. All three programs are state tools for neutralizing the enemy
without killing; for intelligence operations and counterinsurgency
warfare
X. Mind control allegations by a Korean War POW, (prisoner of war),
a Soviet political prisoner and Abu Ghraib detainees
XI. The banal and bizarre techniques of no touch torture
XII. The three key behavioral components of no touch torture
XIII. Torture as a kind of total theater
XIV. A comparison of no touch torture to mind control allegations
XV. The phenomenology of the torture situation
XVI. Comparing no touch torture techniques of sensory disorientation
and self inflicted pain to mind control allegations
XVII. Conclusions: what everyone can agree on

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Introduction
After the horrific pictures of prisoners being tortured at Abu Ghraib were displayed in front pages of
newspapers around the world, the United States maintained that the U.S. government does not
torture; Abu Ghraib was about a few bad officers. Evidence now proves that CIA no touch torture
and worse were ordered by the executive branch and approved by top military officers. Surprisingly
this scandal has much in common with another national security issue, neuroweapons, commonly
referred to as mind control.
The field of neuroethics should begin now, according to bioethicist Dr. Jonathan Moreno in his 2006
book Mind Wars, Brain Research and National Defense. The influential book was reviewed in
Nature and JAMA (Journal of American Medical Association). Most neuroscientists agree that
advanced neuroweapons are over a half century away but the ethics of the new weapons need more
planning than occurred for the atomic bomb. Moreno began the first chapter of his book describing
the growing numbers of allegations of illegal government mind control targeting. He immediately
dismissed them as conspiracy theory nut cases. A 2007 Washington Post Magazine article,
Thought Wars followed suit. So why should anyone read further given these credible and highly
respected expert opinions?
Much of what the public should know about the issue has gone unreported or uninvestigated. For
example, after over a half century of classified research, not one publicly known neurological weapon
has been deployed. This raises more questions than it answers. Putting aside the major and
undebated points of the consensus position, the mind control allegations do sound crazy and on this
singular point, most people, including experts and news reporters refuse any closer examination.
Clearly, understanding why the mind control allegations sound so crazy would have significant
consequences.
Two analogies help clarify the major problems for the mind control issue, secrecy and the lack of a
thorough, impartial investigation;
Excerpt of a 1970s congressional hearing uncovering illegal CIA activities; [Senator Frank]
Church, ... persisted in blaming the plots [assassinations] on the CIA. The agency, he said, was
a rogue elephant on a rampage. For proof, he pointed to the lack of documentary evidence
that any president had ever approved an assassination. Former CIA director Richard Helms
countered that it was absurd to expect to find such evidence. I cant imagine anybody wanting
something in writing saying I have just charged Mr. Jones to go out and shoot Mr. Smith, he
testified. The Agency, he insisted, had simply carried out the wishes of the executive.
Even today, experts dont understand how the U.S. secrecy system works. Similar to the torture
scandal, until there is a national security scandal about neuroscience weapons, the public will
remain uninformed about a serious public issue.
During a dairymans strike in 19th century New England, when there was suspicion of milk
being watered down, Henry David Thoreau wrote; Sometimes circumstantial evidence can be
quite convincing; like when you find a trout in the milk. Mind Wars and the Washington Post
Magazine article examined the growing numbers of crazy sounding mind control allegations.
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But unlike Thoreaus account, the publications only reported the convincing circumstantial
evidence of finding a trout in the milk and dismissed the suspicions without a fair or
impartial investigation. As a result, the mind control allegations made no sense.
Update: In the 2008 book The Commission, the Uncensored History of the 9-11 Investigation,
Philip Shenon explained that explicit, very classified kill orders are now put in writing. On page
254 Shenon wrote: MONs [memorandum of notification] were top-secret orders prepared by the
White House to authorize covert operations abroad by the CIA. ... there was an explicit, if highly
secret, order given by Clinton to the CIA in late 1998 to kill bin Laden.

I. A university professor uncovers CIA no touch


torture
University of Wisconsin professor Alfred McCoy wrote the 2006 book, A Question of Torture, CIA
Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror. Its a compelling account of McCoys search
for understanding the CIAs no touch torture techniques used in the war on terror and the Iraq
War. McCoy shows how information extracted by coercion is worthless and makes the case for a
legal approach, long and successfully used by the U.S. Marines and the F.B.I. McCoy documents
why CIA no touch torture is a revolutionary psychological approach and is the first new scientific
innovation after centuries of torture. Interrogators had found that mere physical pain, no matter
how extreme, often produced heightened resistance. Of course, the old brutal forms of physical
torture are still around, for example torture in Argentina in the 1970s described in the classic,
Prisoner Without a Name, Cell without a Number by Jacobo Timerman.
McCoy pieced together what no touch torture is and how it was spread globally. The CIAs new no
touch torture works by attacking and destroying the basis of personal identity. McCoy found that
the techniques were bizarre, simple, even banal and yet devastatingly effective. McCoy discovered
that the techniques had been scientifically proven in decades of CIA cold war research. Evidence of
several government manuals helped prove that the techniques were disseminated from Vietnam
through Iran to Central America.
No touch torture techniques sound strangely similar to mind control allegations. A comparison of
no touch torture to mind control allegations raised the possibility that mind control allegations
could be based on the well researched psychological theory for no touch torture. Torture victims
exhibit symptoms similar to psychotic processes and organic disorders and experts say this is not
mental illness but an outcome of the psychological component of torture. Psychotherapist Otto
Doerr-Zegers, who has treated Chilean victims tortured under General Augusto Pinochet stated;
The psychological component of torture becomes a kind of total theater, a constructed unreality of
lies and inversion, in a plot that ends inexorably with the victims self-betrayal and destruction. ...
This is similar to the technique of street theater that mind control victims described in the
Washington Post Magazine article. As torture victims are not mentally ill, mind control victims
would not be mentally ill but rather have undergone and are undergoing a traumatic situation
comparable to torture, such as the alleged illegal targeting with government mind control weapons.

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The UCDavis Center for the Study of Human Rights in the Americas (CSHRA) and the UCDavis
Center for Mind and Brain (CMB) further explain what psychological torture is and its effects on
torture victims.
[CSHRA and CMB] have initiated a collaboration to investigate theneurobiology of
psychological torture. ...Psychological torture (henceforthPT) is a set of practices that are
used worldwide to inflict pain or suffering without resorting to direct physical violence.
PT includes the use of sleep deprivation, sensory disorientation, forced self-induced pain,
solitary confinement, mock execution, severe humiliation, mind-altering drugs and
threats of violenceas well as the exploitation of personal or cultural phobias.
The psychiatric sequelae of PT are severe. They include delirium, psychosis, regression,
self-mutilation, cognitive impairment, and anxiety disorders, including post-traumatic
stress disorder. Neuroscience research on these and related mental disorders continues
to establish their neurobiological underpinnings, thus challenging the popular view that
PT is not physical, not serious, and perhaps not even torture at all.
The CSHRA and the CMB launched their collaborative efforts by holding The First
UCDavis Workshop on the Neurobiology of Psychological Torture. The goal of this
workshop was to bring together researchers and practitioners from different specialties
and research groups in order to set off a unified, long-term, research program on the
ways in which PT affects the human central nervous system in an effort to understand it
in relation to the more traditional forms of physical torture, and to establish clearly
articulated ethical, legal, and medical descriptions of this set of practices. It is expected
that these descriptions will help treat, document, and deter PT.
Supplemented by studies on the social, historical, and ethical ramifications of PT, the
presentations made at The First UCDavis Workshop on the Neurobiology of
Psychological Torture have been bound into The Trauma of Psychological Torture, a
volume to be published by Praeger on June 30, 2008.
Please note that numerous torture experts, including CSHRA and CMB have completely shunned
suggestions to investigate mind control allegations or to consider the issue. But this information may
be helpful to the therapists of TIs (targeted individuals of mind control) who are coping with mind
control targeting.

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II. The beginnings of CIA no touch torture and how it


spread
The science of psychological torture began because of fears of Russian brainwashing of defendants in
the 1940s Moscow show trials and the Korean War POW (prisoners of war) brainwashing scare in
the 1950s. The 2005 book, World as Laboratory, Experiments with Mice, Mazes, and Men by
Rebecca Lemov described government psychological research for determining whether the
Communists had developed new techniques of brainwashing. Almost all [scientists] who were
assigned to study the phenomenon of POW collaboration ended up in short order working for the
CIA via one of its various cut-outs, conduits, and false fronts, such as the Society for the
Investigation of Human Ecology, the Geschickter Fund for Medical Research, and the Scientific
Engineering Institute, or in one of its own laboratories. (Lemov, 219) McCoy described the research
behind no touch torture and how it spread globally;
From 1950 to 1962, the CIA became involved in torture through a massive mind-control
effort, with psychological warfare and secret research into human consciousness that
reached a cost of a billion dollars annually, a veritable Manhattan Project of the mind. ...
If we trace a narrative thread through a maze of hundreds of experiments, the CIA
research moved through two distinct phases, first an in-house exploration of exotic
techniques such as hypnosis and hallucinogenic drugs, and, a later focus on behavioral
experimentation by contract researchers, several of the most brilliant behavioral
scientists of their generation ...
While this Agency drug testing led nowhere, CIA-funded behavioral experiments,
outsourced to the countrys leading universities, Harvard, Princeton, Yale, etc., produced
three key findings that contributed to the discovery of a new form of torture that was
psychological, not physical, ... perhaps best described as no-touch torture. (McCoy
outline, 2)
Across the span of three continents and four decades, there is a striking similarity in U.S.
torture techniques, both their conceptual design and specific techniques, from the CIAs
1963 Kubark interrogation manual, to the Agencys 1983 Honduras training handbook,
all the way to General Ricardo Sanchezs 2003 orders for interrogation in Iraq. ...
Guantanamo perfected the three-phase psychological paradigm by attacking cultural
identity and individual psyche. (McCoy outline, 14)

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III. What is no touch torture?


McCoy explained what no touch torture is;
The CIAs psychological paradigm for no touch torture fused two new methods,
sensory disorientation and self-inflicted pain, whose combination, in theory, would
cause victims to feel responsible for their own suffering and thus capitulate more readily
to their torturers. Refined through years of practice, sensory disorientation relies on a
mix of sensory overload and sensory deprivation via banal procedures, isolation then
intense interrogation, heat and cold, light and dark, noise and silence, for a systematic
attack on all human stimuli. The fusion of these two techniques, sensory disorientation
and self-inflicted pain, creates a synergy of physical and psychological trauma whose sum
is a hammer-blow to the existential platforms of personal identity. (McCoy outline, 4-5)
In 2004, the Red Cross reported: The construction of such a system. ... cannot be
considered other than an intentional system of cruel, unusual and degrading treatment
and a form of torture. (McCoy outline, 9)

IV. An example of no touch torture


Democracy Nows Amy Goodman interviewed journalist Jane Mayer about her August 8, 2007 New
Yorker article, The Black Sites: A Rare Look Inside the C.I.A.s Secret Interrogation Program.
Mayer described detainee Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his experience with no touch torture;
There, he [Khalid Sheikh Mohammed] was subjected to a kind of a weird routine that
someone described to me as kind of Clockwork Orange sort of thing, where he was put in
goggles that blacked out the light and earmuffs of some sort that blocked out sound and
deprived of any normal routine, such as meals or anything that would allow him to know
what time of day it was or really have any kind of marker in his existence. And its a
program thats developed of sort of psychological terror, in a way, to kind of make people
feel that they are completely dependent on other people, have no control over their lives,
and its something that, the technique, that really comes out of the KGB days, way back in
the Cold War. And apparently its something the CIA has put a lot of research into over
time.

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V. The long history of U.S. torture


The history of CIA torture runs parallel to CIA neuroscience-based mind control research and also
CIA nonlethal weapons research. This is important because mind control allegations include
descriptions of techniques that sound like all three CIA programs. It is possible that the related cold
war CIA no touch torture, nonlethal weapons and neuroscience-based mind control programs have
co-mingled for intelligence purposes. Pulitzer Prize winning New York Times reporter and author
Tim Weiner wrote the 2007 book Legacy of Ashes, History of the CIA. Weiner described the CIA
torture programs and the U.S. secret detention centers around the world. This is a brief excerpt of
the extensive programs;
The project dated back to 1948, when Richard Helms and his [American intelligence]
officers in Germany realized they were being defrauded ... The agency had set up
clandestine prisons to wring confessions out of suspected double agents. One was in
Germany, another in Japan. The third, and the biggest, was in the Panama Canal Zone.
Like Guantanamo, ... It was anything goes. ... (Weiner, 64-5)
Senior CIA officers, including Helms, destroyed almost all the records of these programs
in fear they might become public. (Weiner, 66)
The agency, as Cheney said that morning, went over to the dark side. On Monday,
September 17, President Bush issued a fourteen-page top secret directive to Tenet and
the CIA, ordering the agency to hunt, capture, imprison, and interrogate suspects around
the world. It set new limits on what the agency could do. It was the foundation for a
system of secret prisons where CIA officers and contractors used techniques that
included torture. One CIA contractor was convicted of beating an Afghan prison to death.
This was not the role of a civilian intelligence service in a democratic society. But it is
clearly what the White House wanted the CIA to do. ...
[The CIA] had participated in the torture of captured enemy combatants before,
beginning in 1967, under the Phoenix program in Vietnam. ...
Under Bushs order, the CIA began to function as a global military police, throwing
hundreds of suspects into secret jails in Afghanistan, Thailand, Poland, and inside the
American military prison in Guantanamo, Cuba. It handed hundreds more prisoners off
to the intelligence services in Egypt, Pakistan, Jordan, and Syria for interrogations.
(Weiner, 482)

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VI. CIA Cold War neuroscience-based mind control


research
Some CIA neuroscience-based mind control research is known to have continued into the 1970s and
is still classified today. A January 29, 1979 Washington Post article entitled Book Disputes CIA
Chief on Mind-Control Efforts: Work Went on Into 1970s, Author Says, reported;
Despite assurances last year from Central Intelligence Director Stansfield Turner that the
CIAs mind-control program was phased out over a decade ago, the intelligence agency
has come up with new documents indicating that the work went on into the 1970s,
according to a new book. John Marks, the author of the book, said the CIA mind-control
researchers did apparently drop their much publicized MK-ULTRA drug-testing
program. But they replaced it, according to Marks, with another super secret behavioralcontrol project under the agencys Office of Research and Development.
The ORD program used a cover organization set up in the 1960s outside Boston headed
by Dr. Edwin Land, the founder of Polaroid, who acted as a figurehead, said Marks in
his book. The project investigated such research as genetic engineering, development of
new strains of bacteria, and mind control. The book identifies the Massachusetts
proprietary organization headed by Land as the Scientific Engineering Institute. The
CIA-funded institute was originally set up as a radar and technical research company in
the 1950s and shifted over to mind-control experiments in the 1960s with the exception
of a few scattered programs. According to Marks, however, the ORD program was a fullscale one and just as secret as the earlier MK-ULTRA project.
In a March 14, 1987, Nation magazine editorial, Louis Slesin, editor of the trade publication,
Microwave News, wrote; Experts agree that nonionizing electromagnetic radiation (NIER) can
affect behavior, but the question is whether the radiation can be harnessed and used on people at a
distance. With its MKULTRA program the CIA began looking for the answer in the early 1950s.
Slesin described that in the 1979 book, Search for the Manchurian Candidate, The CIA and Mind
Control by John Marks, Marks filed a freedom of information act (foia) request. The CIA replied
that it had a roomful of files on electromagnetic and related techniques to alter behavior and
stimulate the brain. But, [the agency] refused to release the papers, and they remain classified.

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VII. CIA Cold War nonlethal weapons research


Nonlethal weapons are another outcome of CIA behavior control research. Steven Aftergood wrote
about the initial stages of nonlethal weapons in the September/October 1994 Bulletin of the Atomic
Scientists; Details about programs to develop so called non-lethal weapons are slowly emerging
from the U.S. governments secret black budget. ... The concept of non-lethal weapons is not new;
the term appears in heavily censored CIA documents dating from the 1960s. Dr. Barbara HatchRosenberg described nonlethal weapons on page 45,
Non-lethal weapons may violate treaties
Development of many of the proposed weapons described on these pages has been
undertaken by NATO, the United States, and probably other nations as well. Most of the
weapons could be considered pre-lethal rather than non-lethal. They would actually
provide a continuum of effects ranging from mild to lethal, with varying degrees of
controllability. Serious questions arise about the legality of these expensive and highly
classified development programs. Four international treaties are particularly relevant ...
The Certain Conventional Weapons Convention (also known as the Inhumane Weapons
Convention).
Many of the non-lethal weapons under consideration utilize infrasound or
electromagnetic energy (including lasers, microwave or radio-frequency radiation, or
visible light pulsed at brain-wave frequency) for their effects. These weapons are said to
cause temporary or permanent blinding, interference with mental processes,
modification of behavior and emotional response, seizures, severe pain, dizziness, nausea
and diarrhea, or disruption of internal organ functions in various other ways. In addition,
the use of high-power microwaves to melt down electronic systems would incidentally
cook every person in the vicinity.
Typically, the biological effects of these weapons depend on a number of variables that,
theoretically, could be tuned to control the severity of the effects. However, the precision
of control is questionable. The use of such weapons for law enforcement might constitute
severe bodily punishment without due process. In warfare, the use of these weapons in a
non-lethal mode would be analogous to the use of riot control agents in the Vietnam War,
a practice now outlawed by the CWC. Regardless of the level of injury inflicted, the use of
many non-lethal weapons is likely to violate international humanitarian law on the basis
of superfluous suffering and/or indiscriminate effects.
In addition, under the Certain Conventional Weapons Convention, international
discussions are now under way that may lead to the development of specific new
protocols covering electromagnetic weapons; a report is expected sometime next year.
The current surge of interest in electromagnetic and similar technologies makes the
adoption of a protocol explicitly outlawing the use of these dehumanizing weapons an
urgent matter.

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VIII. Why CIA no touch torture has been so successful


McCoy explained;
CIA Paradigm: In its clandestine journey across continents and decades, this distinctly
American form of psychological torture would prove elusive, resilient, adaptable and
devastatingly destructive, attributes that have allowed it to persist up to the present and
into the future. ...
1. Elusive: Unlike its physical variant, psychological torture lacks clear signs of abuse
and easily eludes detection, greatly complicating any investigation, prosecution, or
attempt at prohibition.
2. Resilient: Psychological torture is shrouded in a scientific patina that appeals to
policy makers and avoids the obvious physical brutality unpalatable to the modern
public.
3. Adaptable: In forty years since its discovery, the Agencys psychological paradigm
has proved surprisingly adaptable, with each sustained application producing
innovations. ...
4. Destructive: Although seemingly less brutal than physical methods, the CIAs no
touch torture actually leaves searing psychological scars. Victims often need long
treatment to recover from a trauma many experts consider more crippling than
physical pain. (A Question of Torture, 12)
These characteristics also apply to nonlethal weapons and neuroscience-based mind control. All
three are emerging state tools of the future and can neutralize the enemy by controlling the behavior
of the enemy. A 2005 book entitled, Torture, Does it Make Us Safer? Is It Ever OK? was copublished with Human Rights Watch. Some general reasons for why governments use torture as a
state tool include the following. Governments torture because it is a way to obtain coerced
confessions. The confessions can be used for propaganda purposes. Torture serves a variety of state
purposes: to terrorize certain elements of the population, to instill a climate of fear in the public
more generally, and to break key leaders and members of these groups, uncovering their networks.
Other purposes of torture are to obtain intelligence by any means, annihilate subversives and
eliminate the enemy.
Counterinsurgency warfare is taking place in Iraq and major newspapers have reported on the many
detainees that have consistently alleged being subjected to no touch torture techniques. As
reported in the September 16th, 2007 Sacramento Bee, General David Petraeus co-wrote the
Counterinsurgency Field Manuel-U.S. Army Field Manual on Tactics, Intelligence, Host Nation
Forces, Airpower, which Newsweek said, is highly touted as the basis upon which the surge of U.S.
forces this year would be organized.

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The book Torture, also included a description of counterinsurgency warfare, in which torture was a
principal weapon and was developed during the French experience in Indochina and Algeria.
[The] genesis of this new kind of warfare is the idea that the enemy takes the form of an
invisible political organization hidden among the civilian population. One can know its
leaders and its structure only by waging a war of information: by arresting masses of
civilian suspects, interrogating them, and, if necessary, torturing them. ... In the modern
era, ... the science of torture and similar abusive treatment has developed to break the
physical and mental resistance of subjects before they expire or go mad and thus become
useless as sources of information. ... Torture is still about domination.

IX. All three programs are state tools for neutralizing


the enemy without killing; for intelligence operations and
counterinsurgency warfare
By comparing mind control allegations to no touch torture techniques and the very classified
nonlethal weapons program, the purpose of the bizarre sounding mind control allegations begins to
make sense. Neuroweapons include the CIAs still classified neuroscience-based mind control
research, no touch torture and nonlethal weapons. All three are emerging state tools of the future
that can reliably neutralize the enemy psychologically or without killing. The old, politically
unacceptable methods of brutal physical torture and killing wont be eliminated but surreptitious,
scientifically proven, alternative methods are available to achieve an even greater national security
advantage. All are ideal for counterinsurgency warfare, psychological operations and intelligence
operations. The characteristics of no touch torture, nonlethal weapons and neuroscience-based
mind control make them more inhumane than the atomic bomb.

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X. Mind control allegations by a Korean War POW,


(prisoner of war), a Soviet political prisoner and Abu
Ghraib detainees
Three relevant examples out of the numerous available provide a general overview of the decades of
mind control allegations and weapons. The details are compelling and rarely reported by
mainstream press and illustrate why a comparison of no touch torture to mind control allegations
is so applicable. The examples share the same Cold War history with CIA no touch torture,
neuroscience-based mind control and nonlethal weapons programs.
1. The 1984 BBC TV documentary Opening Pandoras Box described EMR [electromagnetic
radiation] remote mind control developments and a claim of mind control by a Korean POW;
In the 1950s, intelligence agencies were interested in changing mental states. The
theory is that brain waves can be tuned to a different EMR frequency and can
change moods and character. ... A CIA memo stated that they were looking for
behavior control to enhance consciousness.
The Soviets had realized the same thing. Dr. Ross Adey, famous EMR researcher at
Loma Linda Veterans Hospital, examined the Lida machine, from the Soviet Union.
It was described as a machine to rearrange consciousness. The Russians claimed
to use it for treatment of emotional disorders in the 1950s. Dr. Adey stated that the
Lida machine is now obsolete. It used coiled wire inside ear muffs which acted like
an antenna and emitted 1/10 sec pulses of EMR. Dr. Adey demonstrated that
excited animals rapidly quiet down when exposed to the Lida EMR frequencies.
There was one account that the Lida machine was used during the Korean war for
brainwashing American Prisoners.
2. An interview of an alleged Russian victim, Andre Slepucha, was reported in a 1998 ZDF
German TV documentary. He described what seems to be the first reported victim of some type
of microwave hearing. Slepucha stated;
In November 1954 I came into contact with what today is referred to as
Psychotronic Treatment for the first time. Back then they took me out of the
concentration camp where, under Stalin, I had been imprisoned as a political
prisoner, and brought me into an isolation cell in the KGB prison which was located
in the Lubyanka. After an approximately two week long continuous occupation of
the cell I suddenly experienced in the morning strong sounds in the head, very
strong acoustic and visual hallucinations.
On the CNN news broadcast, Special Assignment by Chuck DeCaro, Weapons of War, Is there
an RF Gap? November 1985, Dr. Bill van Bise, electrical engineer, conducted a demonstration
of Soviet scientific data and schematics for beaming a magnetic field into the brain to cause
visual hallucinations. The demonstration on reporter Chuck DeCaro was successful. Dr. van
Bise stated, In three weeks, I could put together a device that would take care of a whole
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town. A December 13, 1976, Federal Times article, Microwave Weapons Study by Soviets
Cited described the alleged Russian capability of microwave hearing;
The Defense Intelligence Agency has released a report on heavy Communist
research on microwaves, including their use as weapons. Microwaves are used in
radar, television and microwave ovens. They can cause disorientation and possibly
heart attacks in humans. Another biological effect with possible anti-personnel uses
is microwave hearing. Sounds and possibly even words which appear to be
originating intracranially (within the head) can be induced by signal modulation at
very low average power densities, the report said. According to the study,
Communist work in this area has great potential for development into a system for
disorienting or disrupting the behavior patterns of military or diplomatic
personnel.
3. Jon Ronson, author of the New York Times reviewed book, The Men Who Stare at Goats
wrote about alleged mind control experiments on Iraqi detainees. In an interview on April 14,
2005 at the Politics and Prose book store in Washington DC., Ronson discussed his book.
(Tape available from Cspan, Book TV at www.booktv.org. Videotape # 186334)
And from the former detainees from Guantanamo Bay that Ive interviewed it
seems exactly the same things are going on there. I said to a man called Jamal alHarith how do you feel, you know how did you feel at Guantanamo Bay and he said
felt like a laboratory rat. And he said, I felt they were trying stuff out on me. ...
And one example is with Barney the purple dinosaur. When it was announced a
year ago that they were rounding up prisoners of war in Iraq and blasting them
with Barney the purple dinosaur, it was treated as a funny story, because, by all the
major news networks in America, you know... the torture wasnt that bad. ... It was
disseminated as funny because who wants to replace a funny story with, as Eric
[Olson] once said to me, with one thats not fun. ...
I was given seven photographs of a detainee who had just been given the Barney
treatment as they called it. It was 48 hours of Barney with flashing strobe lights
inside a shipping container in the desert heat. ...
... The current chief of staff of the Army is a man called General Pete Shoemaker. ...
Hes well known to have an interest in these paranormal esoteric military pursuits.
... So now is the time when I know that these ideas go to the very top [levels of the
military].
One of the things you spoke of, the one that I have knowledge of is the frequencies.
You can follow a trail of patents like footprints in the snow and the patents
sometimes vanish into the world of military classification. And theres many
patents bought up by a man called Dr. Oliver Lowry. ...

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So we know that these patents have been bought up by the military. ... And the
detainees of Guantanamo Ive spoken to speak of being blasted withfrequencies, put
inside music, high and low frequencies, masked with music.
...I think theres no doubt theyre experimenting with this stuff. To add to that
controversial suggestion. I think theres a good chance that even though theyre
trying this stuff out, its not necessarily true that it works. A lot of this stuff doesnt
work. This may or may not work. I dont know.

XI. The banal and bizarre techniques of no touch


torture
Psychological techniques used at Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib and secret prisons have included
extremes of the following; manipulation of time, loud music, strobe lights, odd sounds, hooding, ear
muffs, heat and cold, light and dark, isolation and intensive interrogation and most importantly,
creative combinations of all these methods which otherwise might seem, individually, banal if not
benign. As McCoy explains;
After a visit from the Guantanamo chief General Miller in September 2003, the U.S.
commander for Iraq, General Ricardo Sanchez, issued orders for sophisticated
psychological torture. As I read from those orders, please listen for the combined sensory
disorientation, self-inflicted pain, and attacking Arab cultural sensitivities.
Environmental Manipulation: Altering the environment to create moderate discomfort
(e.g. adjusting temperatures or introducing an unpleasant smell) ...
Sleep Adjustment: Adjusting the sleeping times of the detainee (e.g. reversing the
sleeping cycles from night to day).
Isolation: Isolating the detainee from other detainees. ... 30 days.
Presence of Military Working Dogs: Exploits Arab fear of dogs while maintaining security
during interrogations ...
Yelling, Loud Music, and Light Control: Used to create fear, disorient detainee and
prolong capture shock. Volume controlled to prevent injury ...
Stress Positions: Use of physical posturing (sitting, standing, kneeling, prone, etc.)
(McCoy outline, 9)

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XII. The three key behavioral components of no touch


torture
McCoy described the principles underlying no touch torture;
Through covert trial and error, the CIA, in collaboration with university researchers,
slowly identified three key behavioral components integral to its emerging techniques for
psychological torture.
Discovery #1 Sensory deprivation In the early 1950s ...Dr. Donald Hebb found that he
could induce a state akin to psychosis in just 48 hours. ...after just two to three days of
such isolation [sitting in a cubicle ..with goggles, gloves and ear muffs on.] the subjects
very identity had begun to disintegrate.
Discovery #2 Self-inflicted pain ...Albert Biderman, Irving L. Janis, Harold Wolff, and
Lawrence Hinkle, advised the agency about the role of self-inflicted pain in Communist
interrogation. ...During the 1950s as well, two eminent neurologists at Cornell Medical
Center working for the CIA found that the KGBs most devastating torture technique
involved, not crude physical beatings, but simply forcing the victim to stand for days at a
time, while the legs swelled, the skin erupted in suppurating lesions, the kidneys shut
down, hallucinations began.
Discovery #3 Anyone can torture ...Finally, a young Yale psychologist Stanley Milgram,
...conducted his famed obedience experiments, asking ordinary New Haven citizens to
torture on command and discovering that, in contravention of conventional wisdom,
anyone could be trained to torture. ...[Milgram] did controversial research under a
government grant showing that almost any individual is capable of torture, a critical
finding for the agency as it prepared to disseminate its method worldwide. (McCoy
outline, 4, Question of Torture, 32-33)
By the projects end in the late 1960s, this torture research had involved three of the 100
most eminent psychologists of the 20th century-Hebb, Milgram, and Janis, as well as
several presidents of the American Psychiatric Association and the American
Psychological Association. (A Question of Torture, 33)
That notorious photo of a hooded Iraqi on a box, arms extended and wires to his hands,
exposes this covert method. The hood is for sensory deprivation, and the arms are
extended for self-inflicted pain. ... Although seemingly less brutal than physical methods,
no-touch torture leaves deep psychological scars on both victims and interrogators. One
British journalist who observed this methods use in Northern Ireland called sensory
deprivation the worst form of torture because it provokes more anxiety among the
interrogatees than more traditional tortures, leaves no visible scars and, therefore, is
harder to prove, and produces longer lasting effects. (Question of Torture, 8-9)

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McCoy explained how CIA no touch torture changes its victims;


Insights from the treatment of Chilean victims tortured under General Augusto Pinochet
s regime offer a point of entry into this complex question. Psychotherapist Otto DoerrZegers found that victims suffer a mistrust bordering on paranoia, and a loss of interest
that greatly surpasses anything observed in anxiety disorders. The subject does not
only react to torture with a tiredness of days, weeks, or months, but remains a tired
human being, relatively uninterested and unable to concentrate.
These findings led him to a revealing question: What in torture makes possible a change
of such nature that it appears similar to psychotic processes and to disorders of organic
origin? (Question of Torture, 10-11)

XIII. Torture as a kind of total theater


Doerr-Zegers explained that techniques of torture work by creating deception, distrust, fear,
disorientation, a kind of total theater that leaves the victim disoriented and emotionally and
psychological damaged. The similarity of the explanation below to street theater found in mind
control allegations is remarkable;
As Doerr-Zegers describes it, the psychological component of torture becomes a kind of
total theater, a constructed unreality of lies and inversion, in a plot that ends inexorably
with the victims self-betrayal and destruction.
To make their artifice of false charges, fabricated news, and mock executions convincing,
interrogators often become inspired thespians. The torture chamber itself thus has the
theatricality of a set with special lighting, sound effects, props, and backdrop, all
designed with a perverse stagecraft to evoke an aura of fear. Both stage and cell construct
their own kind of temporality. While the play both expands and collapses time to carry
the audience forward toward denouement, the prison distorts time to disorientate and
then entrap the victim. As the torturer manipulates circumstances to maximize
confusion, the victim feels prior schemas of the self and the world ... shattered and
becomes receptive to the torturers construction of reality.
Under the peculiar conditions of psychological torture, victims, isolated from others,
form emotional ties to their tormentors that make them responsive to a perverse play
in which they are both audience and actor, subject and objectin a script that often
leaves them not just disoriented but emotionally and psychologically damaged, in some
cases for the rest of their lives. (A Question of Torture, 10)

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XIV. A comparison of no touch torture to mind


control allegations
The Washington Post Magazine article included interviews of several TIs, or targeted individuals of
mind control, as some call themselves. Highly acclaimed author Gloria Naylor is most recognized for
her novel Women of Brewster Place, starring Oprah in a 1980s TV mini-series. Naylor wrote the
novel 1996, about her personal experience of mind control targeting and street theater. The article
also included an example of drug-induced paranoia for comparison;
Like Girard, Naylor describes what she calls street theater, incidents that might be
dismissed by others as coincidental, but which Naylor believes were set up. She noticed
suspicious cars driving by her isolated vacation home. On an airplane, fellow passengers
mimicked her every movement, like mimes on a street.
Voices similar to those in Girards case followed, taunting voices cursing her, telling her
she was stupid, that she couldnt write. Expletive-laced language filled her head. ...
Naylor is not the first writer to describe such a personal descent. Evelyn Waugh, one of
the great novelists of the 20th century, details similar experiences in The Ordeal of
Gilbert Pinfold. Waughs book, published in 1957, has eerie similarities to Naylors.
Embarking on a recuperative cruise, Pinfold begins to hear voices on the ship that he
believes are part of a wireless system capable of broadcasting into his head; he believes
the instigator recruited fellow passengers to act as operatives; and he describes
performances put on by passengers directed at him yet meant to look innocuous to
others.
Waugh wrote his book several years after recovering from a similar episode and realizing
that the voices and paranoia were the result of drug-induced hallucinations.
The psychological terror and mistrust bordering on paranoia of torture victims is remarkably similar
to the mind control alleged by Naylor and the drug-induced paranoia of Waugh. The street theater
described by most TIs also appears similar to the paranoia of mental illness and most people think
street theater sounds crazy.
The addendum of Naylors novel 1996 included this description of some of the most commonly
reported mind control symptoms;
Victims are subjected to various kinds of harassment and torture, twenty-four hours a
day, seven days a week, for years on end. Most believe that some type of technology can
remotely track, target, and control every nerve in their bodies. Heart and respiration rate
can speed up and slow down, and stomach and bowel functions are regulated. Illnesses
and all types of pain can turn on and off in an instant. Microwave burns are reported.
Sleep deprivation is common and dreams are manipulated. Victims say, They [whoever
is targeting them] can see through my eyes, what I see. Sometimes victims describe
seeing the images of projected holograms. Thoughts can be read. Most victims describe a
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phenomenon they call street theater. For example, people around the victim have
repeated verbatim, the victims immediate thoughts, or harassive and personalized
statements are repeated by strangers wherever the victim may go.
Emotions can be manipulated. Microwave hearing, known to be an unclassified military
capability of creating voices in the head, is regularly reported. Implanted thoughts and
visions are common, with repetitive themes that can include pedophilia, homophobia
and degradation. Victims say it is like having a radio or TV in your head. Less frequently,
remote and abusive sexual manipulation is reported. Almost all victims say repetitive
behavior control techniques are used and include negative, stimulus-response or
feedback loops.
The counterintuitive and bizarre torture techniques are discernible within the mind control
allegations. The mind control techniques seem to be psychological techniques to disorient the victim
and cause him to feel completely controlled, dependent and at the mercy of his torturers. Similar to
the kind of total theater for torture, street theater is almost certainly a part of the process of
breaking ones personality to gain behavior control over that person.

XV. The phenomenology of the torture situation


What in torture makes possible a change of such nature that it appears similar to psychotic
processes and to disorders of organic origin? Doerr-Zegers found the answer lies in the
psychological, not physical, phenomenology of the torture situation;
1.
2.
3.
4.

an asymmetry of power;
the anonymity of the torturer to the victim;
the double bind of either enduring or betraying others;
the systematic falsehood of trumped-up charges, artificial lighting, cunning
deceptions, and mock executions;
5. confinement in distinctive spaces signifying displacement, trapping, narrowness
and destruction; and
6. a temporality characterized by some unpredictability and much circularity, having
no end. ...
Thus, much of the pain from all forms of torture is psychological, not physical, based
upon denying victims any power over their lives. In sum, the torturer strives through
insult and disqualification, by means of threats ... to break all the victims possible
existential platforms. Through this asymmetry, the torturer eventually achieves
complete power and reduces the victims to a condition of total or near total
defenselessness. (Question of Torture, 10-11)
In torture, a torture situation is created according to Doerr-Zegers. In mind control allegations,
there is a similar phenomenology of a mind control situation. TIs describe this as an electronic
prison. Doerr-Zegers described the torture technique, 1) an asymmetry of power. In torture, the
torturer has complete power and the victim is completely powerless. Similarly, TIs are targeted
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remotely and are completely powerless to stop the targeting. Doerr-Zegers described the torture
technique, 2) the anonymity of the torturer to the victim. Torture victims do not know their torturer
and similarly, there is the anonymity of the remote targeting in the mind control situation.
Most TIs described street theater or seemingly staged events which matches 3), 4) and 6). DoerrZegers described torture technique, 5) confinement in distinctive spaces signifying displacement,
trapping, narrowness and destruction. Although TIs are not physically imprisoned, most victims
describe the experience as very debilitating and compare it to mental rape, an electronic prison, or
total destruction of the quality of their lives. Mind control poses a severe restriction on their former
lives. Doerr-Zegers technique 6) a temporality characterized by some unpredictability and much
circularity, having no end is also similar to sensory deprivation in mind control allegations. TIs
routinely report the simple but extremely repetitive and negative, stimulus-response and feedback
loops of their environment.

XVI. Comparing no touch torture techniques of


sensory disorientation and self inflicted pain to mind
control allegations
The psychological effects achieved by torture and alleged mind control are similar. Mind control
targeting tactics described by most TIs seem to contain the underlying no touch torture techniques
of sensory disorientation and self inflicted pain. For comparison, here is McCoys description;
To summarize, the CIAs psychological paradigm fused two new methods, sensory
disorientation and self-inflicted pain, whose combination, in theory, would cause
victims to feel responsible for their own suffering and thus capitulate more readily to
their torturers ... The fusion of these two techniques, sensory disorientation and selfinflicted pain, creates a synergy of physical and psychological trauma whose sum is a
hammer-blow to the existential platforms of personal identity. (McCoy outline, 5)
The intended effect of sensory disorientation for torture would be similar for mind control; to create
an environment of radical uncertainty to enhance the break down of the persons will and
personality. Most alleged cases of mind control describe the considerable repetition of seemingly
innocuous and banal stimuli in the TIs environment, as if engineered by computer. The addendum
of Naylors book included this description; Almost all victims say repetitive behavior control
techniques are used and include negative, stimulus-response or feedback loops. For comparison,
here is McCoys description;
The CIAs sensory disorientation became a total assault on all senses and sensibilities,
auditory, visual, tactile, temporal, temperature, and survival. Refined through years of
practice, sensory disorientation relies on a mix of sensory overload and sensory
deprivation via banal procedures, isolation then intense interrogation, heat and cold,
light and dark, noise and silence, for a systematic attack on all human stimuli. (McCoy
outline, 4-5)

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McCoy described the photos of the hooded detainee with the arms extended for self-inflicted pain.
The torturer forces the prisoner to stand with arms extended and the prisoner has no control over
his situation. The prisoner still has a sense of guilt at causing his own pain by his extended arms.
This intended effect of self inflicted pain for torture seems to be similar to mind control. TIs who are
remotely targeted with physical pain cannot escape. Although TIs go to extremes in trying to escape
the physical targeting, they are unsuccessful. The psychological trauma is inflicted by the sense of
causing ones own pain. Many TIs report that the targeting causes TIs to become isolated from
friends, families and in many cases TIs are unable to work. This common reaction to targeting seems
to be a type of self-inflicted psychological pain.
Carole Sterlings description of targeting is also found in the addendum of Naylors book and seems
to illustrate the techniques of sensory disorientation and self-inflicted pain. It is a typical TI
description;
In 1997, Carole Sterling wrote a letter to the editor of the Star Beacon. She described her
alleged targeting with EMR weapons technologies that within months, led to her suicide.
Dear Star Beacon, I am writing about something that happened to me which goes back to
December 1995. I went to a conference in Nevada. The day following the last night at the
conference, I noticed that I had an injection mark on the base of my spine which was
sore. Then the nightmare started three days after my return to Washington, D.C. ... It
totally scrambled my brain, leaving me unable to think properly, simply functioning on
sheer shock and horror, with total incomprehension of what was going on. It actually was
debilitating. The room felt like a torture chamber. This forced me out of my home. I
believe that the technology used, be it some type of a frequency assault, some sort of
directed energy, in addition to whatever was injected in me, has caused damage to my
brain. [I have] been living with this debilitating and excruciating pain for the last eight
months so far.
TIs describe both psychological and physical targeting similar to torture. It seems logical to surmise
that the successful psychological theories of no touch torture would cross over to more technically
based remote, advanced mind control programs. This becomes a significant step forward in
understanding the mind control issue. The mind control allegations are the secret in plain sight.

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XVII. Conclusions: what everyone can agree on


Hard questions need to be asked of the experts. Who now controls the neuroscience weapons
research and how advanced is it? As a result of U.S. secrecy, an educated guess is all that is possible.
The public deployment of advanced remote neuroscience weapons will be a world changing event,
affecting the lives of this generation and the next. The weapons involve national security, science,
history, U.S. politics and geopolitics. Most importantly the weapons encompass human nature, good
and evil and suffering. Most people are in agreement about one fact: unlike the atomic bomb, there
has been a total lack of public input for neuroscience weapons and policy even though the research
began in the 1950s and is still classified. Again, this raises more questions than it answers.
This article will be published in March 2008. See www.huntergatheress.com A special thank you to editor, Joan DArc for
her encouragement and suggestions.

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Stan J. Caterbone Testimony

EXAMINATION UNDER OATH OF


STANLEY J. CATERBONE
(VOLUME II)

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TAKEN BY:

ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY

BEFORE:

DIANE A. SMITH, REPORTER


NOTARY PUBLIC

DATE:

JUNE 28, 2016, 9:25 A.M.

PLACE:

LANCASTER BAR ASSOCIATION


28 EAST ORANGE STREET
LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA

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APPEARANCES:
MARSHALL, DENNEHEY, WARNER, COLEMAN & GOGGIN
BY: CHRISTOPHER M. REESER, ESQUIRE

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WITNESSES
NAME

EXAMINATION

STANLEY J. CATERBONE
BY:

MR. REESER

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1
2

STANLEY J. CATERBONE, called as a witness, being


duly sworn, testified as follows:

EXAMINATION

4
5

THE WITNESS:

I wanted to try to give you some

background about why people are doing this to me.

MR. REESER:

THE WITNESS:

Okay.
Here's one of the first things.

This is a book written by the Chief of Police ex-wife.

BY MR. REESER:

10

Chief of Police of Lancaster?

11

Lancaster, yes.

She accused him of domestic

12

abuse, and I've had the book for over a year.

13

other thing is this book here.

14

right now to get her out of prison.

And the

I have the only live case

15

And why don't you read the title of the book.

16

Love, Murder and Corruption in Lancaster County,

17

My Story by Lisa Michelle Lambert and David Brown.

18

communicate with Dave Brown a couple times a week.

19

Who is David Brown?

20

Her attorney that wrote the book.

Now if you're

21

not familiar with this case, there were three teenagers

22

that were involved in a murder back in 1992.

23

federal judge named Stewart Dalzell released her saying

24

there was so much prosecutorial misconduct in the case that

25

she was actually innocent.

In 1997, a

Now Pennsylvania appealed it,

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and they had to have another PCRA hearing in front of Larry

Stengel.

essentially, and she went back to prison.

Well, he found -- he reversed everything

Now last June, I filed an Amicus on her behalf as

to move it in the case.

appeal case to get her out of prison.

controversial that 38,000 people signed a petition from

Lancaster to impeach the judge.

They never impeached him.

And I currently have a 3rd Circuit


Now the case was so

Of course, they lost.

But in 1997, the attorney that

10

represented her had some dealings with me.

11

Christina Rainville.

12

Her name is

Now essentially my Amicus is based on a premise

13

that I suffered the same prosecutorial misconduct that she

14

suffered.

15

federal whistleblower for International Signal Control, the

16

firm selling arms to Iraq to a Black Ops Program with the

17

CIA and the NSA -- I blew the whistle in '87 -- they were

18

indicted in '91 -- and the fact that I'm a victim of mind

19

control, there's ample reason and sufficient evidence of

20

why people break into my house and steal my things and

21

break my things.

Now you couple that with the fact that I'm the

22

Now I presented transcripts from Nick Begich, who

23

is a renowned expert in mind control, Karen Stewart, who is

24

a former NSA whistleblower who suffers the same

25

symptomatology as me, and Julianne McKinney, who is a

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former intelligence officer of the U.S. Army.

suffer the same symptoms that I do.

Security has been paying me disability benefits since 2008

for mind control.

5
6

They all

In addition, Social

Do you have a copy of the Disability

Determination?

Sure, I have it in here.

Can I take a look at it?

Yeah, it might take me a couple minutes to find

11

Sure.

12

This injunction was filed yesterday at 4:24 p.m.

10

it.

13

in the Lancaster County Courthouse.

14

documentation with SSA.

15

Now through the application process, I applied in April of

16

'09 and received a check for $21,000 in August.

17

se.

I have 191 pages of

Here is my letter, award letter.

I was pro

There were not psychiatric examinations.

18

May I take a look at that as you're talking?

19

Yes.

And there were no medical reports.

It was

20

all awarded on my documentation of mind control symptoms

21

and illnesses.

22

'09.

23

back one year, retroactive one year.

24

one year.

25

'05, which is when I declared that I became full-time

What they did was -- I applied in April of

They awarded me benefits in August of '09 and paid me


They can only do it

But they declared me disabled in December of

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telepathic and under harassment with electromagnetic

weapons.

3
4

That's what the '05 date is.


So I see, you know, the letter saying that you

became disabled under our rules on December 1, 2005.

Right.

It doesn't say anything as to why.

No, they don't do that.

They only -- what they do

is they give you an award letter and it either says

physical or mental, nothing beyond that because of HIPAA.

10

But if you go through all the documentation I have of the

11

entire process, you'll notice that there's no medical

12

reports submitted.

13

Joe Pitts' office to try to get them to give me a

14

psychiatric evaluation because I thought it was required.

15

They wouldn't give me one.

16

for mental illness, impossible.

17

And I begged them -- in fact, I went to

So it's impossible for it to be


It's just not.

You don't have a document anywhere from the Social

18

Security Administration that says we've determined that

19

you're disabled because of this condition?

20

21

physical.

22

They don't do that.

It's either mental or

If I had one, I'd present it.


Yeah.

It seems to me I've seen things to the

23

contrary where there's been a determination that somebody

24

is disabled --

25

Well, they didn't give me any.

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-- for a particular reason.

Now my father collected disability.

He was a

victim of MKUltra.

What is that?

That's where mind control came from, a CIA

program.

It started in the '50s.

Okay.

You'll have to ask them.

I mean I understand what you're telling me about

10
11

Why was he a target?

your role as a federal whistleblower but -A

He was Navy, a very intelligent person.

He was a

12

member of the Air Gunners Squadron, which I have

13

documentation from him that he left, which is like a

14

special option.

15

school.

16

And he graduated with honors from their

So that could be why.


What I'd like to do is go back to what we were

17

doing before and discuss the items that were on Exhibit 1

18

that was marked at the first examination.

19

started with that, two things.

20

of the receipts from the items that were damaged or the

21

replacement items that you purchased?

22
23

Before I get

One, have you brought any

Can you guarantee me you're going to pay the

claim?

24

No.

25

No.

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1
2

Okay.

Second, I don't have the ability to make

that guarantee.

I mean I could say yes and I --

I'm not going to waste my time.

All right.

I didn't have to do it for previous insurance

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7
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12

claims like this.


Q

So I'm not going to do it for this one.

All right.

Second, you had sent me an email I

think indicating that you had other items to add?


A

Every day.

Seriously, every day.

injunction takes care of everything.


Q

I'm hoping this

So we'll see.

I'm not sure it has anything to do with this claim

but --

13

It has everything to do with everything.

14

All right.

15

Let me read you the relief I'm requesting,

16

And you filed --

emergency relief.

17

Filed in the 3rd Circuit you said?

18

No, Lancaster County Court of Common Pleas.

19

Oh, okay.

20

I filed one in '09, and the judge ruled on it.

21

So

I'm hoping she will on this one.

22

What is the docket number?

23

I didn't get one yet.

24

Okay.

25

I'll read it.

I just filed it yesterday.

Relief sought by Plaintiff.

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The

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Complainant seeks immediate relief from the above in the

form of sanctions and fines for those guilty of extortion

and embezzlement and those withholding accounts

receivables.

law enforcement agencies that continue abuse of process.

Complainant seeks immediate relief from public officials

for obstructing justice and due process.

relief inasmuch as the Courts are able with regards to the

harassment and torture from those known of such crimes.

Complainant seeks immediate relief from the

Complainant seeks

10

The Complainant seeks relief from stalking and

11

harassing neighbors and requires law enforcement to make

12

sure households can identify all occupants and prove they

13

are entitled to the lease and/or deed.

14

seeks relief by awarding the Complainant his pro se

15

billings invoice.

16

the Complainant summary judgment in all cases filed before

17

the Lancaster County Court of Common Pleas in retaliation

18

for the arrogance of both the local law enforcement

19

community and the judicial system for the systematic abuse

20

of process and the extreme nature of the obstruction of

21

justice, which in itself is responsible for putting the

22

Complainant's life in harm's way on a daily basis.

23

June 27th, 2016.

24
25

The Complainant

The Complainant seeks relief by awarding

All right.

Changing gears.

Going back to the

list here of items that you've submitted.

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Date,

I think we left

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10

off talking about the cost of repairs for your computers

which were hacked.

going to move onto the next item, which is a wet dry vac.

So we talked about that.

Okay.

Tell me about that.

Let's see what they did to that one.

And we're

Oh, they

burnt the motor out.

Okay.

Oh, boy, that happened fairly recently.

When did that happen?


That

10

happened -- because I just replaced it.

11

March.

12

on Stonehill Road in Conestoga in 1995.

13

replaced it with was a compact unit.

14

broken was full-sized.

15

power motor.

16

I think the original price of the one I bought -- I want to

17

say it was 150.

I'm going to say

Now the wet dry vac I bought when I built my house


Now the one I

The one that was

I think it was, like, a two horse

The one I replaced it with I think was $69.

It was a Craftsman, the original one.

18

It was 21-years-old?

19

Yeah, yeah.

20

Okay.

21

Oh, yeah.

22

And one day you started -- you tried to use it and

23

Did you use it on a regular basis?

it didn't work?

24

25

work.

Yeah, worked the day before and then it didn't

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11

Okay.

I guess it was February.

Cordless phone, tell me about that.


I have magicJack.

Are

you familiar with that?

No.

It's where you use the internet for your phone.

Like a Voice Over --

Yeah.

-- what do they call that -- VOI?

Only it's different in that they give you a module

10

that you connect to your computer.

11

All right.

12

Now what I did was -- they came out with a new

13

version where you connect it to your Comcast router so that

14

instead of -- before with the old version, you had to have

15

the computer on for the phone to work.

16

I upgraded to the new version and connected it to my

17

Comcast server.

18

So I went to Radio Shack and bought a new cordless phone.

19

Well, it lasted a month and doesn't work anymore.

So I switched over.

So that means the magicJack is live 24/7.

20

Did you take it back?

21

No.

22

Why not?

23

Just too busy.

What I do on that line -- I

24

forward it anyway to my cell phone number, and I was using

25

it just, you know, sporadically.

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12

1
2
3

I would think after a month they would -- they

would replace it?


A

They probably would.

priorities.

replace it.

I'm just too busy, just

I mean I could probably take it back now and

I would think so.

Oh, boy, what a mess that was.

Cable boxes and modem.


Okay.

Let's see.

I guess in February or March I went to upgrade all my cable

boxes.

And at the same time, somebody from Comcast told me

10

that if I hook up to Comcast Business I would get a more

11

secure internet connection and a faster connection.

12

hook up to Comcast Business on a 60 day trial.

13

me a box, a new -- or, in fact, no, they came out and

14

installed it -- a new router.

15

reversed everything and said no, it's not more secure.

16

I disconnected it.

17

my cable boxes, but they never worked.

18

back and forth to Comcast two or three times.

19

techs would come out.

20

I don't know if people put chips in them.

21

they just sabotaged them or what.

So I

They send

And after two weeks, they


So

Then I went to Comcast and upgraded all


I mean I was going
Service

They couldn't find the problem.

I don't know if

22

You don't know why they're not working?

23

Comcast doesn't even know why.

They couldn't

24

even -- I'd get billed for HBO for three months, and I

25

never had HBO.

I mean it wouldn't work.

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So

And I kept

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13

getting on the phone with customer service spending two

hours -- one time two and a half hours, and it still didn't

work.

Okay.

That was probably two months ago, three months

They still couldn't fix it.


How long ago was that?

ago, after the first of the year, probably the second

quarter.

Are they still trying to fix the problem?

I stopped trying.

10

Okay.

11
12

I mean I just -- you know.

The 100 dollar cost to replace, is that

just the value of the cable boxes and the modems or modem?
A

Yeah, I guess what they did is they billed me.

13

Comcast Business billed me.

14

yeah, that's basically what it is.

They all billed me.

I mean,

15

They billed you more because it was a business --

16

Oh, yeah -- no, they billed me because they would

17

not accept the return of the modem.

18

then, and they wouldn't pick it up.

19
20
21
22

I couldn't return it

Do you have any written correspondence between

yourself and Comcast over the issue?


A

Yeah, I have notes.

I have -- yeah, I have emails

I guess, yeah.

23

Do you have any of them with you?

24

No.

25

Would you be willing to forward those to me?

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14

that.

But it was a mess.

I even

think I recorded the one tech that came to my door.

He got

smart with me.

this.

Yeah, I can dig those up, something pertaining to


I mean I forget exactly.

I had to throw him off my property.

I'm probably going to butcher the pronunciation of


Is it Sakrete or Sakrete?
Oh, Sakrete, yeah.

Listen what they did.

had -- I was putting post holes -- putting posts in my back

yard for a six foot wooden fence.

And what these kids next

10

door were doing was they were going and wetting the bags,

11

ruining the whole bag.

12

know how heavy Sakrete is when it's hardened cement?

Now that's not the issue.

Do you

13

Yeah, I got a sense for that.

14

I had to break it up and put it in buckets and

15

take it out to the alley.

16

So basically they ruined the bags?

17

Oh, yeah.

18

Made them unusable?

19

Yeah.

20

All right.

21

Yeah.

22

Is that $4 a bag or --

23

Yeah.

And you have $12 there?

That's not the half of it.

They filled in

24

the holes before I could -- I had to dig the holes out two

25

or three times.

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15

When you say they, again who is they?

I assume it's the people next door.

They are the

ones who sic the pit bull on me that I had to go to the

hospital for two weeks ago.

Oh, gees.

Oh, yeah.

Are you all right?

I had to go to the ER and take antibiotics for 10

days.

10

11

Okay.

The next item I have is just miscellaneous

clothes, $100?

12

Yeah, they are always ruining my clothes.

13

Ruining them or stealing them?

14

Both.

15

When you say ruining them, what do you mean by

16

that?

17

They'll put spots on them so I can't wear them,

18

the shirts, or they'll shrink them.

19

slippers they make big.

20

kinds of tricks.

They've done that.

So I can't wear those.

My

I mean all

21

I'm sorry?

22

Slippers big.

23

They made them big.

24

If you -- I have those three experts I mentioned.

25

They made -So I can't wear them.

They all talk about -- the first thing they do in these

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16

programs is break into your house, and it's impossible,

impossible to find out how they get in.

were here.

Forced entry?

Yes, a broken window --

No ---

-- a broken door.

-- in '87, I did.

10

And I think we talked about this last time you


You don't have any signs of forced entry?

Well, I had forced entry by the

Lancaster City Police last July on a 302 warrant.

11

Yeah, you told me about that.

12

But other than that, forced entry, no, no.

13
14
15
16

Signs

of entry, but not forced.


Q

When you say signs of entry, you define that by

the fact things were missing?


A

Moved, missing, lights on that were off or off

17

that were on, things like that.

18

porch -- you know, if I go out in the evening, I'll leave

19

my front porch light on.

20

and, you know, hard to get in, you know, to see your key

21

hole and things like that.

22
23
24
25

The other night my

Well, I came home and it's off

It's harassment.

The next item you have is vapor electronic

cigarettes?
A

Oh, yeah, now they help you reduce smoking regular

cigarettes.

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17

These are the E-Cigs?

Yeah, but they are the pens with cartridges.

are expensive.

like at Turkey Hill or something.

that -- they are three in one.

or dry herbs.

nicotine.

think, I think one after that.

They

They are not the ones you buy in the store


These are the ones

You can smoke waxes, oils

Now what I get is, like, six milligrams of

It's in liquid form.

They stole my fifth one I

All from home?

10

Oh, yeah, yeah, all from home, yeah, five of them.

11

I mean that sounds like the kind of thing -- I

12
13
14
15
16
17

mean I'm famous for leaving things behind at restaurants.


A

Oh, no, no, no, no, no, I don't leave this behind.

No, no, they were stolen.


Q

Same thing, you don't know when they got in, how

they got in, but they are just not there anymore?
A

Well, I mean in 2009 -- let me give you an

18

example.

19

document daily in journals all the incidents that I'm

20

describing.

21

every day.

In 2010, I said I have enough documentation.

22

That's it.

I mean it's a full-time job.

23

those.

Okay.

This is what I used to do.

I used to

I did that for about a year, very detailed,

I can send you

I mean I have those in PDF form.

24

Yeah.

25

I can send you those.

I mean I can email those to

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18

you.

the Court?

This whole thing is the emergency injunction.

All right.

It looks like this is something that's filed with

Well, I mean that should be available

online.

I'd say three days.

This is filed with the prothonotary --

Yes.

10

-- in Civil Court?

11

Yeah, I can show you the stamped pages.

I just

12

had to make copies.

13

I'm waiting for a cartridge to be delivered today.

14

you page to the left, you'll see the three pages that were

15

stamped.

My toner mysteriously went out, and


But if

16

That's not what I was supposed to get there.

17

There you go.

18

down.

19

20
21

If you swipe it -- no, it's up and

There is four pages stamped there.


Yeah, it just has the time stamp on it.

It

doesn't have the docket number.


A

No, yeah, they didn't -- I guess I could have

22

maybe got them to give me a docket number, but they didn't.

23

You know, I didn't push it.

24

All right.

25

Here you can see the -- there's the state cover

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1
2
3

sheet.
Q

Yeah, they didn't stamp it with a docket number

either.

This is the civil cover sheet.

Okay.

And this is the first page of the injunction.

Judge Margaret Miller ruled on mine in '09 and

essentially -- it was similar to this.

what she said was that I didn't provide her enough evidence

10

for her to rule in my favor.

11

she said.

12

victim of mind control.

13

because I got corroborating witnesses.

But this time it's a lot different

Okay.

15

Dr. Nick Begich.

Who are the corroborating witnesses?


He's an expert in mind control

technologies.

17

Where is he out of?

18

Alaska.

19

In a nutshell, that's what

Plus she said she didn't really believe I was a

14

16

And essentially

Administration.

His father was killed by the Hoover


He was a U.S. congressman.

20

What was the last name again?

21

Begich, B-e-g-i-c-h.

I'm sorry.

Now his brother just

22

finished a term in Congress last year in the Senate.

23

Anyway, his father back in -- I forget what year it was --

24

was traveling with the Speaker of the House, Wayne Boggs,

25

and they were both killed in a plane accident.

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And they

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were raising hell about Hoover with his CoIntel Program.

So anyway, Nick Begich began doing research on the HARP

Installation in Alaska, which is a 180 antenna array that

is the focus or the basis for electromagnetic weapons.

It's called HARP.

convinced the European Parliament to ban electromagnetic

weapons.

transcript of his lecture in October of 2015, and he gave a

lecture during the Covert Harassment Conference in Belgium.

10

Now back about eight years ago, he

So he's a renowned expert.

Now I have a

I think it was Belgium.

11

Okay.

12

Yes, then I have Karen Stewart.

13

You mentioned her.

14

Karen Stewart is a former NSA whistleblower.

15

National Security Agency when you say NSA?

16

Yeah, yeah.

Do you have other witnesses?

She blew the whistle in 2004.

Now

17

she just emailed me three weeks ago.

18

information, and she emailed me back and said thank you for

19

it.

20

determined that some weaponry that was being used over in

21

Afghanistan and Iraq wasn't performing up to standards.

22

And she more or less drew attention to it to the U.S.

23

Military, and somebody took credit for her work.

24

became an NSA whistleblower.

25

same problems I did, people breaking in her house,

I emailed some

Anyway, she -- essentially what happened was she

And she

Then she started having the

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electromagnetic weapon attacks, things like that.

Now the NSA is critical for two reasons.

I blew

the whistle on ISC, the Lancaster firm selling arms to

Iraq.

was with the NSA.

director of the NSA, was on their board of directors.

also owns a company that deals in mind control.

Bill Clinton nominated him to be the Secretary of Defense,

and he withdrew because of the ISC scandal.

Their first program -- their first contract in 1973


Bobby Ray Inman, who was the former
He

In 1994,

Plus on March

10

9th, the NSA took me into custody, false imprisoned me for

11

an hour and a half and had eight security police

12

interrogate me for no reason.

13

Of this year, March of this year?

14

Yeah, down in Fort Meade.

15

Where is Fort Meade?

16

That's the NSA.

17

Is Fort Meade in Colorado?

18

Maryland.

19

Oh, I'm sorry.

20

Dogs at my car, handcuffed me, interrogated me and

21

then told me I couldn't go down to Washington, D.C. and

22

told me I wasn't allowed on federal property anymore, which

23

was a lie.

24

of them.

25

I walked away and essentially made a fool out

Karen Stewart, where is she located?

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Well, she worked down in Fort Meade, Maryland, but

she since -- after she blew the whistle and started having

symptoms, she moved to Florida -- I believe that's where

she's at now -- with family.

Okay.

I got a little sidetracked there.

Let me

bring you back to the next item, which is HVLP tips.

they related to the cigarettes?

8
9

A
sprayer.

Are

No, no, that's a high-volume,low-pressure paint


What they did was -- I bought a used one at the

10

Reuse It Store off of Pitney Road out near Greenfield

11

Industrial Park.

12

come with it, so different velocities for the paint, like

13

smaller and larger.

14

instruction manual and brushes to clean it.

15

everything in a clear plastic bag to keep it all together.

16

I went to use the sprayer, and the bag was gone.

17

to go out and buy a brand-new HVLP.

18

one I bought -- I think I paid 60 for it.

19
20
21

Okay.

And I brought it home, and I put -- tips

It comes with three tips.

Tips.

So I put

So I had

It cost me $119.

The

You have a quantity lost two and then

estimated cost to replace 45.


A

It had an

What did you lose two of?

Yeah, what they did was they put the small

22

tip in.

23

you know, you need the larger tip.

24

thought I could replace the tips, but you can't.

25

to replace the whole thing.

So I'm trying to spray stain for my fence, and,

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But I said 45.

I
So I had

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1
2

Okay.

I don't mean to be redundant.

So I'm just

going to ask you --

That's all right.

-- a blanket question here if it applies to all of

these items here, and I'll show it to you.

items, you don't have -- or you're not willing to produce a

receipt.

8
9

For all these

Correct?
Only if you give me a guarantee that you're going

to pay the claim.

10

And I've told you I can't do that.

11

Okay.

12

None of these items have been reported as lost or

13

stolen or damaged to the police.

Correct?

14

To the police?

15

Yes.

16

I'm in this injunction accusing the police of

17

trying to kill me.

No, I mean I can't.

18

All right.

19

That's what abuse of process is.

20
21

And none of these items -It's when the

police do not take your complaints.


Q

And for any of these items, you do not have -- you

22

can't tell me specifically who it was who stole it or broke

23

it or whatever the case may be?

24

No.

25

All right.

I'm not going to keep asking that

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question.

I can -- I can tell you this.

Since 2006, the

neighbors at 1252 Fremont Street have been engaged in a

constant harassment and threat campaign no matter who is in

that house.

Has there been a change in --

Oh, yeah, three times.

Is it a rental house?

Yes.

10

Do you know who the current residents are?

11

No, they don't tell me the truth, no.

I mean I

12

filed a private criminal complaint against them in the

13

County D.A.'s Office this year.

14

harass me.

15

happened June 10th.

16

Center on College Avenue.

17

and 10 Vicodin.

18

shots, but I didn't do it.

19

have the hospital report.

They are Spanish.

They are the ones who sic the dog on me.

That

I went to Lancaster Regional Medical


Dr. Westphal gave me antibiotics

Now he wanted me to go through rabies


I said the dog wasn't rabid.

20

The next item is a staple airgun?

21

Right.

22

That was theft.

23

They

They stole my staple airgun.


That wasn't damaged.

That was

theft?

24

Yeah, theft.

25

When was that?

That was theft.

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This all -- this all happened when I started

erecting the new six foot fence and a screened-in porch in

my back.

And I started construction March 10th.

So sometime after March 10th?

Yeah.

And I don't know if I asked you about the HVLP

tips.

I'm going to say in May.

Of this year?

10

Yeah.

11

I also don't think I asked you about the five

12
13

But when were those taken?

vapor electronic cigarette cartridges.


A

Okay.

I bought my first one -- let me see.

14

say that was all after January 1st.

15

after January 1st.

16

I bought one at the convenience store on Manor or

17

Millersville Pike, Hershey Avenue.

18
19
20
21
22

I'd

Yeah, they were all

I bought one downtown at Puff N' Stuff.

In doing the math here, it looks like they go for

about 50 to $60 a piece?


A

Yeah, some are -- that's the minimum.

last one I bought was $79.


Q

Okay.

I think the

That's the minimum price.

The next one is a belt for $9.

Are we

23

talking about, you know, a belt to hold your pants up, that

24

kind of belt?

25

Yeah, yeah.

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Stolen, damaged?

Stolen.

When?

Within the past two months.

The next one is a 36 inch by 100 feet --

Oh, yeah.

-- black screen?

That was to do my screened-in porch.

replace it.

10

Stolen?

11

Stolen.

12
13
14

In fact, I just bought that -- I replaced

that probably a month ago.


Q

I'm sorry?

You just replaced the screen for the

screened-in porch?

15

Yeah, it's a roll.

16

Right.

17

roll.

18

19
20
21

It's 100 by --

I'm familiar with them.

So it was on the

Somebody just took the roll?


Yeah, it was in a plastic bag, yeah, plastic

sleeve, yeah, took the whole roll.


Q

Okay.

And the last one is one pair of work

gloves?

22

Yeah.

23

I know what work gloves are.

24

Yeah.

25

I had to

Now here's what they do.

A lot of times

they'll steal it and then a week later they'll return it.

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I mean they play games like that.

warfare along with the theft and damages.

It's psychological

Were any of these items ever returned to you?

Some.

I mean I can't keep track.

list.

possession.

Some were.

Okay.

Then they'd steal them again.


It's hard to keep track of it.

As of today, are -- here, I'll show you the

Tell me if any of those items are in your

Let's see.

Well, some of these are damaged.

10

wished they returned the vapor electronic cigarettes.

11

the work gloves they did return.

12

them.

13

14
15
16
17
18

I
Now

I found where they put

So they are in your possession at least as of

today?
A

Yes, they are.

I don't know if they'll stay

there.
Q

Now is there anything that you would like to add

to supplement to this list?

19

As far as the list or evidence or what?

20

No, as far as the list of items.

21

Yeah, I could -- you know, I can update, yeah.

22
23

can send them to you.


Q

Of anything that you would add to that list, would

24

they all have been items in which were lost or damaged --

25

stolen or damaged in the same way as the items that we've

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discussed?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got tired of making --

keeping lists.

think.

Okay.

morning -- I produced an exhibit, a DVD, a disk with this

case to the Courts.

myself.

That happened this morning.

But I -- well, let me do it now.

Let me see.

Let me

We talked about the new vapor pen.

Here is a for instance.

I went to -- this

So I have to make a copy today for

The DVD recorder doesn't work on my computer.


Yesterday -- oh, this morning

10

I found that two day's worth of photos in my phone were

11

missing from my computer.

12

and on.

13

anything substantial because I probably -- well, the toner

14

cartridge.

15

toner gets low, it will give you a warning that you need to

16

soon replace your toner.

17

document.

18

out, but it never gave me the warning.

19

capability of actually hacking into my copier because it's

20

a wireless copier.

21
22

Q
off.

I mean there is nothing -- I'm trying to think of

What happens is I have a copier.

And when the

Well, I'm producing this

And at the 611th page, it says black ink toner


So they have the

So I had to order a new ink cartridge.

Now you did mention -- and I don't mean to cut you


Is there anything else that you want to talk about?

23

No.

24

All right.

25

Yeah, you know, the list goes on

Now you did mention that you had

submitted two similar claims to other insurers?

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Yeah, yeah.

Tell me about those.

They were in '05 I was paid and '06.

I -- okay.

Conestoga, PA.

about the same, somewhere around $6,000.

schedule similar to this, and they paid from that schedule.

Now what they did was the one they paid the claim, but they

inflated the depreciation value.

It's when

It's when I lived at 220 Stonehill Road,


The claims were about -- I think they were
I produced a

So I filed a complaint

10

with the Pennsylvania Insurance Commission.

11

no, 2007 or 8, after I moved to 1250 Fremont Street, I

12

tried to file a claim.

13

filing that on my mother's property casualty policy.

14

would have filed another claim.

15

Now in 2006 --

But my brother blocked me from


So I

Now the insurance companies, they have a database

16

of all the insurance claims that are paid out.

17

familiar with that?

Are you

18

No.

19

Yeah, there's a database that actuaries use.

20

don't know how you access it or what.

21

have a correspondence from the Southern Regional Police

22

Department in 2006 -- 5 or 6 regarding all my complaints to

23

them about incidents regarding vandalism and thefts.

24

Southern Regional Police covered Conestoga Township back

25

then.

The other thing is I

Now

Now I went to try to find -- I know I had paperwork

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on the claims.

claims, but I can't find them in my computer.

I had copies of the checks, copies of the

Do you remember who the insurers were?

Harleysville was for one, maybe both of them, you

know.

Theft or damaged or --

Just like this, yeah.

And they were the same type of claims.

I tried to find them.

have backup disks now.

three laptop drives and two external hard drives from 2005

Unfortunately, there is -- I have

10

and 6 that are in my safety deposit box.

11

equipment so that I could more or less connect those drives

12

to my computer and read them, but the equipment would come

13

and it won't work.

14

until I'm more secure with the computer hacking, I can't do

15

anything with them.

16

even though they took them from my current drive.

17
18
19
20
21
22
23

Q
you.

Okay.

I ordered

So I have them stored.

But, you know,

But I'm sure the claims are in there

I don't think I have any more questions for

Is there anything that you'd like to add to this?


A

No.

If you could tell me what you want other than

the receipts.
Q

There was a letter sent to you I believe sometime

between the first examination and the second examination.


A

24

morning.

25

that.

I couldn't find it.

I tried to find it this

That's why I asked you what time.

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They stole

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I don't think I have --

I think I have a hard copy, but I didn't want to

root through my file.

and I couldn't find it.

letter format because I scan everything?

6
7

I tried to find it on my computer


Did you email it or did it come in

I believe I was emailed a copy of it, but I

think -- I assume it was sent to you in letter format.

Are you talking about the one form Allstate --

Yes.

10

-- or the one from you?

11

No, no, the one from Allstate.

12

I have that.

13

That's what I'm talking about.

14

Yeah, I have that.

15

that.

16

They want a document filled out and --

17

Right.

18

-- forwarded back to them.

19

Was I supposed to bring that today?

20

It would have been helpful, but it's not

21

mandatory.

22

don't have to send it to me.

That's right.

Yeah, I have

If you could get it back to Mr. Eisenhard.

You

23

Okay.

24

Other than that, you know, I don't know that there

25

was -- whatever Allstate had requested.

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The only thing I

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1
2

was looking for were the receipts.


A

3
4

Okay.
MR. REESER:

Okay.

And we're done.

Thank you

very much.

THE WITNESS:

(Whereupon, the examination concluded at 10:12

Yeah.

a.m.)

8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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33

COUNTY OF DAUPHIN

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

SS
3

I, Diane A. Smith, a Notary Public, authorized to

administer oaths within and for the Commonwealth of

Pennsylvania, do hereby certify that the foregoing is the

testimony of Stanley J. Caterbone.

I further certify that before the taking of said

examination, the witness was duly sworn; that the questions

and answers were taken down stenographically by the said

10

Reporter-Notary Public, and afterwards reduced to

11

typewriting under the direction of the said Reporter.

12

I further certify that the said examination was

13

taken at the time and place specified in the caption sheet

14

hereof.

15

I further certify that I am not a relative or

16

employee or attorney or counsel to any of the parties, or a

17

relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, or

18

financially interested directly or indirectly in this

19

action.

20

I further certify that the said examination

21

constitutes a true record of the testimony given by the

22

said witness.

23

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand

24

this 11th day of July, 2016.


_______________________________________________
Diane A. Smith, Reporter
Notary Public

25

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1
2
3
4
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12
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14
15
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17
18
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20
21
22
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EXAMINATION UNDER OATH OF


STANLEY J. CATERBONE

TAKEN BY:

ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY

BEFORE:

DIANE F. FOLTZ, RMR


NOTARY PUBLIC

DATE:

JUNE 9, 2016, 9:15 A.M.

PLACE:

LANCASTER COUNTY BAR


ASSOCIATION
28 EAST ORANGE STREET
LANCASTER, PENNSYLVANIA

APPEARANCES:
MARSHALL, DENNEHEY, WARNER, COLEMAN & GOGGIN
BY: CHRISTOPHER M. REESER, ESQUIRE
FOR - ALLSTATE INSURANCE COMPANY

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1

WITNESSES

NAME

STANLEY J. CATERBONE

BY: MR. REESER

EXAMINATION

5
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EXHIBITS

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14

CATERBONE EXHIBIT

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1.

LIST OF ITEMS

PRODUCED AND MARKED


13

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24
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STANLEY J. CATERBONE, called as a witness, being


duly sworn, testified as follows:

3
4

EXAMINATION
BY MR. REESER:

Could you state your name, please?

Stanley J. Caterbone, C-a-t-e-r-b-o-n-e.

Would you mind if I called you Stan or Stanley?

Stan.

Stan, okay.

10

And my name's Chris Reeser.

You can

call me Chris.

11

All right.

12

I'm not a real formal guy.

I have been asked to

13

take a statement from you relative to an insurance claim

14

which I understood to have occurred as a result of

15

something on April 3rd of 2016, but by some correspondence

16

that I received from you, my understanding is that is not

17

the date of loss.

18
19

No.

That date is the date that I started the

spreadsheet --

20

Okay.

21

-- of the items lost or vandalized.

22

All right.

This statement is part of the process

23

of collecting information and evaluating the claim.

24

Allstate's policy, as does just about any insurance

25

company's policy, provides that part of the duty of an

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insured is to give an examination under oath --

Okay.

-- at the request of the insured -- at the

request of the insurer, so that is what this is.

I've had --

Go ahead.

I've had -- I've collected on two or three

Go ahead.

policies with the same types of claims, and I've never been

put under oath --

10

Okay.

11

-- on the record.

12

So noted.

13

Okay.

14

And I'll ask you about that.

15

And I don't mind under oath.

16

All right.

17

I just, you know --

18

All right.

19

-- have never experienced it.

20

Okay.

22

Sure.

23

This is part of what the insurer is allowed to

21

24
25

Well --

Well, a first time for everything.

This

is --

ask of their insured.


A

Oh, I don't mind at all.

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Okay.

Great.

So I'm going to ask you some

questions about that.

Okay.

I usually when I take these statements -- and

I've taken a couple of them -- have some information about

the claim.

claim.

Okay.

So --

10

Can I give you a brief history --

11

Go.

12

-- to put it in perspective?

13

Yeah.

14

I am a federal whistleblower.

I have very little information about this

Go.
I blew the whistle

15

on International Signal Control or ISC in 1987.

They were

16

indicted in 1991 for a billion dollar fraud and selling

17

illegal arms to Iraq.

18

1987 they --

19

I'm sorry.

20

Yes.

21

operations.

22

Okay.

23

Now, since -- I've been trying to get into

Now, I was a shareholder, and in

You were a shareholder in ISC?

They solicited me to finance some

So I'm a legitimate, bona fide whistleblower.

24

courts, hired various attorneys from '87 all the way up.

25

In 2005 I entered the federal court system as a pro se

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litigant.

I filed my own claims.

Okay.

Okay.

Now, here's what happened.

I became a

victim of organized stalking, electronic harassment or mind

control technologies.

show you some expert testimony -- is that what they do is

they break into your home, vandalize, steal, move things

around.

policies making the same types of claims.

Now, what happens is -- and I'll

And since '05 I've collected on two or three

10

losses are not a single-day loss.

11

period of time.

Now, these

They happen over a

12

Okay.

13

And I can't give you dates as far as when what

14

was taken, when that was taken, but that's just a

15

background for your reference as far as this is not an

16

ordinary claim.

17

When you say they, who is they?

18

Well, I don't know, you know.

19

say.

20

be agents.

21

It could be neighbors.

It's impossible to

It could be police.

It could be anybody.
But you believe that they are all in conspiracy

22

to punish you because of your activity as a federal

23

whistleblower?

24
25

A
that.

It could

I'm going to refer you to documents to explain


As a victim of electronic harassment and gang

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stalking, the victim -- part of the victimization is that

they break into your home.

Okay.

But you don't know who the they is?

Well, of course not.

Have you ever seen anybody in the act?

I have one person on a security camera video.

Okay.

That was in 2006.

And was there an insurance claim related to that?

10

Not to that particular person, no.

11

All right.

12

But there was a claim that year.

Harleysville

13

paid me once or twice, and there was another one.

But

14

unfortunately I'm also the victim of computer hacking.

15

These are all the reports from the past year on Geek Squad

16

and other companies reviewing and analyzing and fixing my

17

hard drives after they've been hacked.

18

Okay.

19

I filed about, oh, boy, since '06 or '07 probably

20

about four or five IC3 reports with the FBI.

21

I don't know what an IC3 report is.

22

It's an online complaint regarding anything

23

fraudulent online to the FBI.

24

Okay.

25

I've had face-to-face meetings with the FBI

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probably about 15 times.

Locally?

Philly and Harrisburg.

Is there a particular agent that you meet with?

No.

Could you tell me the names of any of the agents

No.

that you meet with?

No.

Okay.

10

I can verify the meetings, I mean.

11

What -- what's the reason for the meetings?

12

Complaints --

13

Okay.

14

-- about people, what they're doing to me.

15

You said you're a victim of electronic

16

harassment.

17

Okay.

18

What have been the other forms?

19

They use microwave technology, microwaves to

Now, I understand what computer hacking is.


Electronic harassment.

20

alter your brain state.

21

cause extreme pain in any part of your body.

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create synthetic telepathy.

23

with the weapons.

24
25

It causes extreme -- they can


They can

They can essentially kill you

Now, in the 1950's the Russians used it against


our -- the U.S. Embassy in Moscow, the same weapons.

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in the 1970's there was what's called the Church Committee.

The CIA had to come clean on these programs.

supposed to have stopped them, but they didn't, and that's

-- there's Senate testimony.

then was Stansfield Turner.

Senate, and they admitted to all the programs that I'm

describing.

Okay.

MKUltra was the main program.

10

How do you know that?

11

How do I know what?

12

I mean, how do you know you're a victim of

13

The Director of the CIA back


He testified before the

microwave technology to alter your brain waves?

14
15

They were

Some nights I can't walk.

The pain is that bad.

What do you mean how do I know?

16

I mean, I don't know.

17

Don't get smart with me, or I'll walk out this

I don't know.

18

door.

19
20

I'm not being smart.

I'm trying

to understand this.

21

Okay.

22

How do I -- you know, how do I know I'm not?

23

Do you ever complain about it?

24

I mean, I have pain.

25

pain.

I don't know why I have

I just -- I'm trying to understand.

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Listen, yesterday I filed 300 pages in the

Pennsylvania Supreme Court on a case against Lancaster City

Police and the county residents.

Okay.

There are -- there is expert testimony in here

from, one, an NSA whistleblower named Karen Stewart who

will back up just about everything I say.

from a Julianne McKinney who is a former Army intelligence

officer.

The second is

The third is from a renowned expert named Nick

10

Begich whose father was killed by someone in the Hoover

11

Administration.

12

read them.

There are transcripts in here.

You can

13

Okay.

14

You can learn all about it.

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May I have this?

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No.

17

Okay.

18

Or I can give you it in electronic format.

19
20
21
22
23

You can make a copy.

have a PDF around my neck.


Q

I'll give you a copy.

Well, I see that it's a Petition for Allowance of

Appeal which means that it's -A

I'm appealing a Superior Court decision to the

Pennsylvania Supreme Court.

24

Okay.

25

I'm a very successful litigator by the way.

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How --

I'm the amicus for Kathleen Kane in her criminal

case in the Superior Court in Philadelphia.

movant for Lisa Michelle Lambert.

I'm also the

Okay.

I've got three Third Circuit cases now that are

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8
9
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awaiting decisions.
Q

And this is an appeal from the Lancaster County

Court of Common Pleas.

I assume it went then to the

Superior Court?

11

I took it to the Superior Court, right.

12

Okay.

13

They dismissed it --

14

Okay.

15

-- two weeks before oral arguments.

16

And what happened there?

Oral

arguments were scheduled for May 24th.

17

Okay.

18

They were scheduled since January.

Both cases

19

were arguably -- I mean, maliciously dismissed two weeks

20

before oral arguments.

21

before them.

22

23

Okay.

They didn't want me to appear

Give me some background.

you worked -- maybe I misheard you.

24

No.

25

Okay.

I mean, you said

Did you work for ISC?

You were a stockholder?

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Yes.

Okay.

He was a stockbroker back then.

he is?

Gib Armstrong sold me the stock in 1983.

Do you know who

Former Pennsylvania Senator.


Yeah, I'm familiar with the name.

Are you

employed right now?

No, I'm -- I collect Social Security disability

for symptoms and illnesses related to U.S. mind control,

documented, verified.

10

Huh.

11

They've been paying me since '08.

12

Okay.

13

for that?

Do they -- do they pay you by the month

Is it --

14

You never heard of Social Security disability?

15

I have.

16

Yeah.

17

Okay.

18

My first check was for $21,000.

They paid me.

19

applied in '09.

20

'05 when I declared I was full-time telepathic, but they

21

could only pay me back one year.

22

to '09 in one check, and then I've been getting monthly

23

checks ever since.

24
25

Okay.

They declared me disabled in December of

So they paid me back '08

Well, let's talk about this claim a little

bit.

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Okay.

I'm going to have this marked as Exhibit 1.

I have a new one here.

Okay.

Well, why don't you -- why don't we mark

-- can I take that, or do you need that?

Yeah.

No.

Okay.

We won't mark the one I have.

Here.

That's updated.

MR. REESER:

Do you want to put a sticker

(List of items produced and marked Exhibit No.

13

1.)

14

BY MR. REESER:

16

Okay.

on there?

12

15

Every day I have stuff

missing.

10
11

This is for you.

All right.

Now, I'm just going to go through

these items that you have --

17

Yeah.

18

-- listed in order from top to bottom.

19

You're

making a claim for a dishwasher?

20

Right.

21

Is this a dishwasher that was in your home?

22

Yeah, but you know -- I'm trying to think what

23

year that was actually broken.

24

Scratch the dishwasher off of that.

25

That might predate this.

The dishwasher is not being claimed, correct?

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Yes.

Yes, let's take that off.

All right.

And I should ask you this beforehand.

I kind of lost track.

Your brief or your petition that was

filed to the Supreme Court listed an address of 1250

Freemont Street.

That's -- that's your home address?

Yes.

Okay.

No.

All right.

10

In fact, I sent a copy of the deed in with the

11

claim.

12

13

Does anybody else live there with you?

I believe I saw that, which I think there were a

number of grantees.

14

My brothers.

15

Okay.

16

No.

17

And they wouldn't be insured under the Allstate

18

But none of them live there?

policy?

19

Yeah, they're listed as other insureds.

20

Okay.

21

Yeah.

22

Okay.

23

Do any of these items -- are they owners

of any of the items?

24

No.

I purchased the policy for everybody.

25

Okay.

Front and back door locks?

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Right.

Tell me about that.

Okay.

In July of 2015 -- yeah, July, 2015, the

benevolent Lancaster City Police Department served me with

a 302 petition, but what they did was they broke into my

house, smashed in the front door.

to pay for all the locks and the door, but they didn't.

8
9
10

Now, they were supposed

So I had to get a new front door, and I had to


get all the locks changed in the front and back door,
rekeyed.

11

Okay.

12

Mental health warrant.

13

All right.

14

I've had about eight of them.

15

do.

302 petition?

That's what they

That's part of the slander campaign.

16

What do they --

17

That's pretty routine.

18

What do they claim?

19

Well, I'm mentally ill.

20

Okay.

21

That's their -- that's their defense.

22

Is there a form of mental illness that they try

23

I make all this up.

to pin on you?

24

Oh, yeah.

25

What?

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Which one do you want?

Oh, there's been more than one?

Bipolar, schizophrenic, delusional disorder, you

4
5
6

What year?

name it.
Q

Okay.

Were you hospitalized or

institutionalized --

Oh, yeah.

-- as a result -- as a result of this one, the

one in July?

10

Oh, yeah, Fairmont.

11

For how long?

12

Oh, that was about five -- eight days, I guess.

13

And how did that end?

14

They always -- they give me a hearing.

15

Then they

have to release me.

16

Okay.

17

They're always pretty much the same.

It started

18

in '87.

19

Harbor Beach Patrol.

20

was making a movie with Tony Bongiovi who owns Power

21

Station Studios, one of the world's most famous recording

22

studios.

23

The first one was was somebody called up the Stone


My resume's in there.

In 1987 we're making a movie.

24

for an office down in Stone Harbor.

25

the movie in New Jersey on the boardwalk.

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But in 1987 I

I rented a home

We were going to shoot


Somebody called

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the Stone Harbor Police Department and said I was running

to the beach to kill myself, totally made up, fabricated.

That's how it all started with the mental illness.

Okay.

Okay.

Smashed in your front door?

Oh, yeah, with -- like a drug raid.

So going back to the door for a second --

I stood

there and took pictures of them as they came through.

Do you actually have the pictures?

10

Oh, yeah, it's part of it.

11

Part of?

12

The -- they're in here.

Oh, let me see.

No, they're in this one.

This one.

No.

Where

13

are they?

These

14

are black and white.

15

pages.

16

only reason you could do that is if someone -- is if you

17

knew that someone was in there with a gun to their head.

18

was in -- I was in the upstairs window talking to them

19

trying to get them to get away from me quite honestly.

They're hard to see, but the next two

Totally illegal what they did.

The only way, the

20

Okay.

21

I filed a lawsuit against Lancaster City Police

22

in '08.

It's a federal lawsuit.

23

one of the documents I have here.

In fact, that's part of

24

Is that still ongoing?

25

I withdrew without prejudice because of the

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computer hacking, so I can re-file, go back to it any time

I want.

Okay.

Most of my lawsuits I withdrew without prejudice.

5
6

I just couldn't litigate with all the hacking.


Q

Can -- do you have any photographs that show the

damage to the door?

I mean, I see a door that's open.

see a police officer --

Yeah.

10

-- apparently standing there.

11

Yeah.

12

Okay.

13

In fact, I bought the door at the Habitat reuse

Yeah, I do.

14

it store.

But what happened was they charged me like $400

15

to change all the locks.

Wizard Lock did it.

16

Do you have -- do you have the receipt for that?

17

Yeah, I could dig that up.

18

You don't have it with you right now?

19

No.

20

You bought the door -- I'm sorry -- Habitat?

21

For Humanity.

22

Habitat?

23

Habitat for Humanity.

24

Oh, Habitat for Humanity.

25

The reuse it store.

I'm a little hard of hearing.

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Reuse it.

Out on Old Philadelphia Pike back behind

Greenfield.

door than was on there.

The door looks brand new, I mean, a better

The door, the replacement door you bought there?

Yeah.

What about the original door, was that -- had

8
9

that been there for years?


A

No, that was done in 1996.

My mother was part of

10

the Lancaster City Homeowners Rehab or Revitalization or

11

Rehab Program where if you qualify, they'll come in and

12

rehab your home, bring it up to code and put a seven-year

13

lien on your house for the cost of the improvements.

14

year 10 -- 10 or 15 percent comes off, so if you stay in

15

the house for 7 years, it's all free.

16

I see.

17

So the doors are part of that.

18

Okay.

19

'96 at the time.

20

And you may have said this.

21

didn't get it.

22

that -- the replacement door?

23

$20.

24

$20?

25

Yes.

Each

I apologize if I

How much did you actually pay for the door

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But it cost you 400 to get the locks replaced?

Yeah.

And that was done again by?

Wizard.

Wizard.

Locks.

And you can get me the receipt?

Yeah.

And my question about that was going to be did

Yeah.

10

you report this to the police, but I guess given the

11

circumstances --

12

Here's the situation.

I've -- I've been

13

reporting to the police ever since it started, but usually

14

they're part of the program.

15

complaints.

16

to sue them.

17

Okay.

18

I have letters which are a part of the documents

They won't take my

I mean, I had to sue them.

That's why I had

19

going to the police explaining the vandalism and the

20

break-ins that they won't, you know, report on or

21

investigate or...

22

And this happened July of '15?

23

July 8th, I think, yeah, 2015.

24

July 8th, 2015, okay.

25

Was there any other damage

done, physical damage to your house done --

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No.

-- as a result of that incident?

Just the door.

Okay.

5
6

The next one I have on your list is an

Apple Video iPod.


A

Right.

What they did was I can't -- the menu

button doesn't work.

'05 or '06.

Okay.

10

I since bought a replacement for it.

11

All right.

12

Now, that iPod I bought back in 2006,

You bought -- this particular Apple

Video iPod you bought in '05 or '06?

13

Yeah.

14

Where did you buy it at?

15

I might have bought it at a Best Buy in Florida.

16

Okay.

17

Boy, 3, $400 probably.

18

Okay.

19

It's when they first came out, so the video iPods

20

Do you remember what you paid for it?

And then when did you --

were expensive.

21

Yeah.

This wasn't an iPhone.

22

No.

23

-- just an iPod?

24

Right, video iPod.

25

And then you noticed a problem with it when?

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This was --

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1
2

The button, you can't push the button, the main

button.

Okay.

Oh, boy.

fall of '15.

Okay.

No.

-- Best Buy or a repair store?

No, you can't.

10

Why not?

11

Why?

12

I mean, if I had a problem with my iPhone and

14

I'm not going to pay to get it fixed.

15

Okay.

16

I bought a replacement.

17

Okay.

13

18
19
20
21
22
23

When did you discover that?


Let me think.

That was probably in the

Did you take it to --

No.

No.

I --

Why is that -- I'm not -- I don't

understand why that's part of the insurance claim.


A

Because it was in my house and the house is

covered by the insurance.


Q

I mean, how do you know it just didn't -- I mean,

things wear down over time.


A

I mean --

I'm telling you the truth.

If you don't believe

24

me, that's fine, but don't -- don't harass me with

25

questions.

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1
2

I'm here to ask you questions, sir.

trying to get an understanding as to -- things wear out.

I told you what happened.

Okay.

They broke it.

They broke it?

Yes, someone broke it.

All right.

It's funny.

10

One day the button works, and the

next day it doesn't.

11

Okay.

12

Right.

13

How old --

14

I've had probably three stolen.

15

Oh, it was stolen?

16

Oh, yeah.

17

Okay.

18

I don't remember.

19
20
21

I'm just

or four stolen.
Q

Okay.

Bluetooth headset for phone.

When?
In the past year.

I had three

I had to buy replacements.


Well, you list $60, and that sounds about

what the value of a new Bluetooth would be.

22

Oh, no.

No.

That's for three of them, I think.

23

Oh, okay.

24

Does it say three beside there?

25

No, it doesn't.

Well, no.

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It says item number,

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but they're consecutive.

not a quantity.

I'm assuming that's not -- that's

Oh, didn't the quantity print out?

that.

Oh, the quantity didn't print out.

be three.

No.

Let me see
That should

All right.

I paid like 20 bucks apiece for them up at Radio

Shack.

Do you have the receipts for them?

10

I'm not going to dig up all these receipts.

11

really not.

12

is harassment.

13
14

Maybe I didn't put the quantity in.

I'm a busy guy.

I'm

I can't be -- you know, this

Does that mean you don't have them, or you're

just not going to -- you're not going to dig them up?

15

I'm not going to take the time to dig them up.

16

Okay.

17

I have all my receipts.

18

back to '80, '82.

19

Okay.

20

I document everything.

21

I have my tax returns

I'm an expert in

information technologies.

22

Where in your house --

23

I have worked all over the world for the record.

24

I did defense contracts, optical publishing.

25

of -- I was one of four companies in the late '80's, early

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I was one

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1

'90's that could manufacture CD-ROMs, me alone.

business.

were stolen?

Where did I have them?

Yeah.

It depends where I was.

Where were they stolen from?

Most likely either the bedroom which is in the

10

Okay.

I know my

basement.

Where in your house were the headsets that

In the bedroom, living room?

Yeah, the bedroom.

What do you mean?

Yeah.

11

Was there any sign of unlawful entry?

12

No, never is.

13

about that.

14

15

You'll read, the experts tell you

And I assume there was no report to the police

about these --

16

I can't report to the police anymore.

17

Okay.

Is it fair to say that with regard to any

18

of these items you haven't -- so I don't have to keep

19

asking you this, that you didn't report it to the police?

20
21

They get emails from me, but, no, there's no

official report.

22

All right.

23

The last official report I made was two thousand

24

-- was July 8th of 2015.

I went down to the police again

25

to report the computer hacking, and that night at 11:30

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they signed the mental health warrant on me --

Okay.

-- and gave me a bogus incident report.

All right.

The Bluetooth headsets, the three of

them were taken after that?

After what?

After the 302 petition.

Let me think.

Okay.

10
11
12

Yeah.

Yeah.

You don't have any idea who it was who

took them?
A

If I did I'd give you a name and report that to

everybody.

13

Okay.

14

Yes.

The hammer drill.


They broke it.

I'd say March 9th I started

15

my -- I'd say in March, 2016.

I'm putting on a new

16

screened-in porch on my back and a six-foot fence.

17

it worked.

18

buy a replacement.

The next day it didn't.

One day

So I had to go out and

19

How old was it?

20

I bought that one -- that's about the second or

21

third one they broke.

That one I bought on eBay in

22

probably -- when did I buy that one?

23

Do you still have it?

24

No.

25

Did you throw it out?

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Maybe '08.

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Yeah.

All right.

You didn't take it someplace to see

if it could be fixed?

No.

What did you buy it for, how much?

How much?

How much.

Oh, boy.

9
10

That was a DeWalt.

I don't know -- $300 I think, 280.

New they're like --

I probably paid -- I

think I paid 60 something for that, somewhere around $60 --

11

Okay.

12

-- on eBay.

13

And then did you buy a replacement for it?

14

Yeah.

15

What did that cost?

16

The replacement I bought at -- oh, the tool store

17

out there next to the off-track betting.

18

of it?

19

Harbor Freight?

20

Harbor Freight.

21

drill.

22

Okay.

24

What is it?

25

Maybe 100?

23

What's the name

Harbor Tools.

I paid I think 60 for the hammer

But you have -- you have 100 listed here,

so -Maybe it was 100.

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Maybe.

Okay.

Reciprocating saw.

Yeah.

What they did was they rigged it so that

the blade doesn't stay in.

You can't use it.

It just --

When you turn it on it comes out?

Well, when you use it, it comes out when you're

sawing.

Okay.

You can't -- you can't tighten it.

10

work, but it stopped.

11

I bought that at Lowe's.

12
13

It used to

That replacement I bought -- I think

The one, the one that's broken or the one, the

replacement one?

14

The replacement.

15

Where did you buy the one that's broken?

16

Harbor Tools.

17

Harbor Freight?

18

Harbor Freight.

19

Okay.

20

23
24
25

When did

you buy that?

21
22

Just so we're on the same page.

A
'06.

'05.
Q

Oh, boy.

Let's see.

I might have bought that in

'05, '06.
Okay.

Did you use that on a regular basis or

just once in a while?


A

What do you mean on a regular basis?

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Did you use it once a week?

No.

Okay.

No.

No.

No.

No.

Did you use it --

No.

Reciprocating saws I probably used less

than any other tool actually.

I mean, a couple times?

But if I have a project I might use it a lot in a

8
9
10
11
12

two-week span.
Q

Yeah.

I mean, some people are do-it-yourself,

fixer-upper kind of people, and some people -A

Well, I used to have a contracting business in

college.

13

All right.

14

Stan Caterbone Painting and Renovating.

15

But you bought this in '05, '06?

16

assuming --

17

Right.

18

-- you were out of college by then.

19

I'm just saying I have experience.

20
21
22

I mean, I'm

I'm not just

a do-it-yourselfer.
Q

Well, no.

My -- some people do a lot of work

with their tools, and other people --

23

Oh, I do.

24

-- don't.

25

I do.

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1
2

Okay.

And that's what I'm getting at.

I'm

trying to understand.

I do.

I don't.

Okay.

So I could have something for ten years, and it

doesn't get any use at all.

No.

I understand.

And some people have it --

10

I use my tools.

11

-- for ten years, and they use it every day.

12

I use my stuff.

13

Fair enough.

And you got a replacement at

14

Lowe's, and you have $100 here.

15

paid for the replacement?

Is that about what you

16

Uh-huh.

17

Do you have the receipt?

18

Yeah.

19

Okay.

20

Is it fair to say you're not going to dig

that up?

21

No.

22

Okay.

23

I didn't have to for the other claims.

24
25

No.

I'm not going to do that.

I'm not

going to do it for your company.


Q

Okay.

IPhone 5C, was that stolen?

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Broken.

When?

In fact, I got scammed on that, the 5C, the end

of last year.

Here's what happened.

They broke it, right,

so I put it on eBay to sell it so someone could reprogram

it, the software.

broken on it because it functioned, everything, but the

software was not functioning.

I assumed the software was what was

Okay.

So I put it on eBay.

Right.

Somebody bought it.

10

They hacked my PayPal account.

So someone said that they

11

paid me with electronic funds.

Well, PayPal doesn't use

12

electronic funds.

13

the money.

PayPal you use your account to transfer

Right.

14

Like a Visa account?

15

What's that?

16

Or a PayPal account.

17

PayPal account.

18

Okay.

19

So what they did was they filed a claim saying

Oh, a PayPal account.

20

that I never sent them the iPhone.

I wasn't going to send

21

it until I got -- until I verified the money was in my

22

account.

23

Uh-huh.

24

But because my PayPal account was hacked, I

25

couldn't access my PayPal account.

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Right.

Now, in my

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PayPal account I had a cash balance of like $400.

went and awarded them judgment.

judgment.

So eBay

In eBay terms I'm saying

Uh-huh.

So they took the $150 or whatever selling price

out of my account, so I'm out the phone, plus the $150.

Okay.

So they scammed me.

All my accounts are hacked.

I file -- in all the courts I have electronic filing

10

privileges, Third Circuit, U.S. District Court, all the

11

state courts, the local courts.

12

which is the system where you file electronically --

Right.

My PACER account

13

I'm familiar with PACER.

14

-- I've been hacked since, oh, boy, November.

15

So

I got to run down to Philly every two weeks --

16

Okay.

17

-- to get my dockets, just to get dockets for all

18
19
20

my cases.
Q

Let me go back.

I'm -- you lost me on the phone

at some point.

21

Okay.

22

You had the phone.

23

phone?

24

Right, after it was unusable to me.

25

After it was unusable.

You were looking to sell the

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Why was it unusable to

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you?

Because there was a software problem?

It just didn't -- it wouldn't function for me.

Okay.

So I replaced it.

of Apple.

How old was the phone?


I went to Samsung.

I got out

I had too many problems with Apple.

How old --

Apple wouldn't fix it.

Apple wouldn't do this.

They were harassing me on every -- I called customer

service about it, and they had harassed me, and I had to

10

report that, so I said the hell with it.

11

Radio Shack, and under Sprint's program they would pay your

12

old phone off if you're on a contract.

13

have a Samsung.

14
15

So I went to

So I went and now I

How old was the phone at the time that you tried

to sell it through eBay?

16

A couple months old.

17

Okay.

18

Five months old I think.

19

Was it under any warranty program with Apple

I had a warranty through Verizon, but I had to

20
21
22

or --

cut them out.

23

I don't follow you.

24

I had to get off of Verizon.

25

Okay.

So the phone wasn't fixable; you tried to

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sell it; you got scammed on the PayPal?

Yeah.

And eBay basically ruled against you?

Yeah, I can't even access eBay.

I can't buy

anything on eBay anymore.

Okay.

I'm hacked, every -- all my online accounts.

Okay.

Banking, bank accounts, PayPal, eBay, PACER.

10

filed complaints with the FBI, the Pennsylvania Attorney

11

General's Office, everybody.

12

When did this happen?

13

What happen?

14

The phone, the attempt to sell the phone.

15

I think January.

16

Of this year?

17

Yes, '16.

18

Did you file a complaint with the Attorney

19

I think January.

General's Office or --

20

Oh.

21

About this situation?

22

I file complaints with them all the time.

23

Okay.

24

Like I say, I am the amicus for Kathleen Kane in

25

Superior Court Case 1164 EDA 2016.

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I filed an amicus brief

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May 3rd, so I'm a party to the case now.

everything to me.

They have to file

Okay.

Service me everything.

And I understand, you know, that process to some

extent, but what does it have to do with this?

it has relevance, I'm all ears.

8
9

A
the NSA.

Okay.

I mean, if

I just don't know.

In 1998 I had a meeting with an agent from

I was complaining again about things, and he told

10

me, he said, listen, Stan.

11

it's the good old boys.

He goes it's not us.

He said

This was in 1998.

12

Now, when Kathleen Kane started in the press,

13

she's been saying that the good old boys are behind her

14

problems.

15

stated for the record what the NSA agent told me about the

16

good old boys and how it relates to what she was saying.

So November 12th I wrote her a letter, and I

17

Uh-huh.

Okay.

18

She replied back the next day, said she'd keep my

19

information on file.

Ever since then from November till a

20

month or so ago I'd go up there every two weeks and deliver

21

documents to Strawberry Square to the Attorney General's

22

Office.

23

Okay.

24

I finally thought, you know what, I'll put screen

25

Tell me about the screen door locks.

door locks on on my screen doors.

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Uh-huh.

It didn't stop anything.

They'd work.

Are they still there?

I had to replace one or two of them.

Did you do that yourself?

Oh, yeah.

Do they work now?

Yes.

They'd break them.

They wouldn't work.

Well, supposedly.

I mean, one time they

10

didn't work.

11

Okay.

12

Lowe's.

13

For $30 it looks like?

14

Yeah.

15

Yes.

16

That was within two months ago.

17

Okay.

18
19

Where did you buy the replacements?

Is that what's on there?


Okay.

When did you replace them?

Sleepy's foam mattress.

I'm sorry.

Foam

memory mattress.
A

Here's the situation with that.

On the record,

20

I've been suffering from back pain since '87.

21

say '98 I've been going to the doctors on and off for it.

22

Last year I got a handicapped placard, and in the process I

23

used my medical reports regarding my back.

24

handicapped placard, and I got a long-term placard which

25

means it doesn't renew until 2020.

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Since I'd

So I got a

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1

Okay.

Now, what they were doing is that aside from the

electromagnetic weapons, people were using some type of

device to put under my seats and under my bed that causes

excruciating pain.

6
7

Now, since '05 I was going up and getting laser


treatments to Leola Family Health Clinic in Leola.

Did you say Leola?

Yes.

10

Thank you.

11

Now, the doctor there, the chiropractor, he's the

12

one that signed off on my handicapped placard.

13

Okay.

14

He verified that if they -- they could be using

15

magnets.

It can throw my back out to cause pain.

16

that's what the Sleepy's is for.

17

All right.

18

Now, whether -- I mean, well, go ahead.

19

Have you actually found magnets?

21

No.

22

All right.

24
25

You ask

the questions.

20

23

So

You're not sure where they are within

the mattress?
A

I'm not sure.

No, I'm not.

No.

I'm not sure

how they do it, but they used to do it to my bicycle seat,

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my car seat, my bed.

Other nights...

3
4

Now, some nights I'm fine in the bed.

And you know when they're doing it based upon

when you have the pain?

Yes, it's the only way I know.

Okay.

What's the nature of your back problem?

Herniated disc, do you have a degenerative condition?

No.

Do you have -- I mean, you're going to a

10
11
12

chiropractor.
A

Is he -- is he treating you for anything?

I was getting laser treatments, but it stopped

being effective.

13

Okay.

14

So now the only treatment really is I'm applying

15

to Medicare.

16

house.

17

medicines.

18
19

I'm trying to get a whirlpool bath put in my

I'm trying to get them to pay for that.

Okay.

And pain

And what's the diagnosis other than -- I

mean, are you -- something other than back pain I presume?

20

I have that in here, I believe.

21

I'm going to get myself some more coffee over

22

there.

23

Water would be good.

24

I assume there's water in that pitcher.

25

Would you like any coffee or water?

If not,

I can go out and get you some.

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Let me see what document I have right here.

MR. REESER:

(Off the record.)

THE WITNESS:

with me.

BY MR. REESER:

And off the record.

No, I didn't bring my medical file

Okay.

If I know what?

If you know the answer to that question.

10

What was the question?

11

The question was what's the medical diagnosis?

12

Oh, it's a medical term.

13

That's fine.

14
15

That's all right.

I mean, if you know.

I can't.

If you don't -- if you don't know,

that's fine as well.


A

I went to -- okay.

January 29th medical -- Med

16

Express Urgent Care issued me pain medications.

17

they issued me pain medications, all for back.

18

they issued me pain medications.

19

March 23rd
May 10th

In 2009 I was receiving pain medicines from

20

Dr. Sullivan at the Abbeyville Family Clinic on Abbeyille

21

Road for back pain, severe.

22

a walker some nights.

It gets severe.

I have to use

23

I think you said you went to Leola Chiropractic?

24

Yeah, Leola Family Health Clinic.

25

Family Health

Clinic.

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2
3
4

That's not a chiropractor.

That's a medical

doctor?
A

No, he's inside there.

It's a -- it's a facility

where they have different doctors.

Okay.

Dr. Newhart, Paul Newhart, he was giving me laser

treatments.

guess it was about laser therapy.

the NFL.

10

I saw an article in the paper in '05 or '06 I


Now they're using it for

But it was effective for a while, and then it

stopped being effective a couple years ago, so I stopped.

11

When did you buy the bed?

12

I bought the bed three months ago.

13

Where did you buy it at?

14

Sleepy's, Manor Shopping Center.

15

Okay.

16

Now, I put the bed on there.

You understand why

17

I put it on there?

Now, if you went and saw the bed, you

18

wouldn't think anything's wrong with it, but I'm putting it

19

on to document just what I'm telling you.

20

Okay.

You still use the mattress?

21

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, because it's a memory foam with

22

a -- it vibrates.

It moves in three different positions,

23

the head, the mid-section, and for my back it's great.

24

Queen size, king size?

25

Full.

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Is that smaller than queen?

Yeah, not by much though.

So if you're not having the back issues --

Perfectly normal.

Then it's perfectly -- okay.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

10

Okay.

11

Oh, which ones?

12

How many do you have?

13

How many did I have?

14

And $2,300, is that what you paid for

it?

Laptop computers.

How many are broken?

many's listed on there?

15

There's no number there.

16

Let me see.

17

How

I don't know why those quantities

aren't in there.

18

Yeah.

19

Let me see.

The policy goes -- the policy goes

20

back to '11, so it would have been one, two -- that would

21

be right.

Two.

22

Okay.

23

Two laptops, 400 bucks apiece.

24

right.

25

That's about

What kind of laptops, what brand?

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Oh, boy.

HP.

What happened to them?

They just sabotage them.

drives and everything.

usually.

6
7

What was the last one?

Compaq.

They fry the hard

They just fry them.

That's what this document is.

Viruses

It's all in there.

So they've crashed as a result of the viruses?

The hard drives have crashed?

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Have you looked into replacing the hard drives?

10

It is -- cost, it's not effective.

It's not --

11

it's not worth it because by the time you pay to do that,

12

it's already outdated technology, so you're going to have

13

an old processor.

14

15

sometimes --

16

You know, it just doesn't --

No, I -- I understand.

The economics of it

So what happened, so in August of last year, the

17

last laptop I replaced, I got a one-year service for Geek

18

Squad.

19

The laptops --

20

Fixing -- fixing the one I have.

21

Okay.

22

I've been in there about 20 times.

These aren't -- the ones that the Geek

Squad's fixing, they're not the HP or the Compaq?

23

Oh, no.

No.

24

Okay.

25

That's a Lenovo I have now.

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The HP and the Compaq, how old were those?

Within a year, a year old.

When did they crash?

Well, the last one crashed August of 2015.

one before that was probably -- let's see.

Maybe 2012.

2013.

8
9

Compaq, '15.

Probably two thousand and -- maybe '13.

or to Allstate about the one that crashed in '13 before -A

No.

11

-- last month?

12

No.

13

it in bulk.

It's too time consuming.

14

litigation.

I'm too busy trying to defend myself and

15

everything else, too busy documenting things I have to

16

document.

18

I do -- no, this is the way I do this.

Okay.

I do

I'm too busy with

The next item you have is cost to repair

computers from hacking.

19

Right.

20

Which -- are you talking about the same

21

Maybe

Did you make any report to your insurance agent

10

17

The

computers?

22

Yeah.

23

The --

24

I went to -- I went to other services after Geek

25

Squad was not performing their service effectively.

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Let me hold you up for a second now.

We talked

about the HP and the Compaq, and then you said you bought a

warranty in August to have a different computer serviced

by --

A Lenovo.

-- the Geek Squad?

Right.

Denovo?

Lenovo.

10

Lenovo?

11

L-e-n-o-v-o.

12

Is that the one that you're making the claim to

13
14

have repaired?
A

I had that serviced, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, I had it

15

done by the people on Harrisburg Pike there.

16

moved, right there at The Grille there, near the campus.

17

forget what his name is.

18

Near F&M you mean?

19

Yeah, The Campus Grille.

He just
I

He had a computer

20

repair shop in there, but he just moved.

21

out to Liberty Place or somewhere.

22

And you paid $400 for that?

23

No.

24

Yeah.

25

Let me see.

I think he moved

That was -- to the repair?

Cost to repair computers from

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hacking.

I guess that's cumulative over the past four

years.

Okay.

That's probably what that is.


Here's what happened.

A Plus on Columbia

Avenue.

Last year I made a formal

complaint to the Lancaster DA's Office.

the detective.

goes you're going to have to do something for me.

going to have to go get a private firm, analyze your

Okay.

I met with

He goes, well, Stan, he goes, listen.

10

computer and get a report.

11

seen the detective since.

He

You're

I did that, paid for it, never

12

Okay.

13

He never returned my calls.

He never -- I guess

14

I called him out on it.

I guess he thought, you know, I

15

wasn't going to do it, or it was going to come back saying

16

there wasn't a virus in it or it wasn't hacked, but he was

17

wrong, so he flew the coop from me.

18

So the $400 is cumulative --

19

Yes.

20

-- for three different computers?

21

Three or four.

22

And this would be over how many years span?

23

Three or four years.

24

Okay.

25

Do you have the bills for any of those

repairs?

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A lot of them are in here.

I'm sorry?

A lot of them are in here.

Okay.

No.

Why not?

You can see them right now.

Oh, sure.

I'm getting tired.

10

I had a long week, so let's

wrap this up.

11

12

items.

13

14

Could you send me copies of them?

I'm about two-thirds of the way through these

Let's make it another day then for the rest.

I've had enough.

15

Okay.

16

We can reschedule another time.

17

And I take it

I'll get a copy of the transcript?

18

I'll get you a copy of the transcript.

19

Great.

20

I would prefer to keep going.

21

No, I can't.

22
23
24
25

You don't mind breaking, do you?

I'm up since 4 o'clock most

mornings, so this is enough for me.


Q

Can you show me where those receipts are that

we've just talked about?


A

Let me see.

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Save you and me some time.

Okay.

In the folders that you're looking at right now,

That's $160.

are those copies of your receipts?

5
6

Here's one.

These are the copies of the reports from the

technical people.

Okay.

The Geek Squad was a one-time fee.

A Plus.

Okay.

Here's A Plus.

10

receipt.

11

Avenue.

12

service, the Geek Squad.

13

computer.

14

them where I got them.

Let's see.

Here's

Now I got to find the

This is what they wrote.


Okay.

Okay.

That's on Columbia

Here's my receipt for the tech

Here's my receipt for the actual

Can I have those receipts back?

I want to put

I don't want the stuff mixed up.

15

How can I get a copy of those receipts?

16

Just take them right now and get them.

17

Ask them to copy them, you'd be all right with

19

Sure.

20

Do you have other receipts for any of these other

21

items?

22

I have 30 years of receipts.

23

Here, I mean here in this building.

18

24
25

that?
Sure.

Do you have

them with you?


A

I don't know.

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Could you -- there was another one in there that

I was looking at.

piece of paper.

It was on an 11 -- 8 and a half by 11

Here, that was $160.

Let's see.

Let me go

through there quick and see if I can get the receipts.

Here's a receipt.

they changed my SIM card thinking that would stop the

hacking, but it didn't.

for -- that's just an in-take.

This is a Verizon.

This is a receipt, but it's not


These are the IC3 reports.

10

Let's see if the receipt's in here.

11

they're all the receipts I have.

12

Okay.

13

I believe.

14

What Verizon did was

Geek Squad.

No,

I mean, as far as the computers are

concerned.

15

And then there's no receipts in these documents?

16

Receipts for what?

17

Any of these items that we're talking about.

18

I don't know.

19

Okay.

20

I don't know.

21

I'll make copies of these.

22

I did not peruse all these files for receipts.

23

Would you like -- would you like me to make a

24
25

copy of that for your records?


A

No, I gave it to you.

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Okay.

I'm going to have to trust you.

changing documents on me all the time.

(Off the record.)

I got people

BY MR. REESER:

Okay.

Do you want to take these and copy them and bring

them back?

Or I can mail them back to you.

Sure.

10

Well, aren't we going to continue this?

11

Actually what I have to do is I have to report

12

back to Allstate, and they let me know if they want me to

13

continue it or not.

14
15

A
fine.

Okay.

You can take them then.

Mail them back.

16

Okay.

17

You're going to get educated.

18
19
20

Yeah, that'd be

And you will not -You're going to be

a changed man, trust me.


Q

You will not do the continuation, assuming we

have one, in the courthouse?

21

Why?

22

Because it's free.

23

Why don't we do it at Allstate's office, Allen's

24
25

office?
Q

Okay.

I'll see if I can arrange that.

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Or we can do it at my house.

1250 Freemont Street.

It's nice.

It's nice there.

You can come to


It's fixed up.

I have no problem with that.

All right.

I had enough of that courthouse.

Okay.

How long did this last?

Roughly an hour.

So it's about 20 after 10:00 roughly.

I don't know what time we

started.

10

That's pretty good.

11

So you want to adjourn for the day?

12

Yeah.

13

MR. REESER:

14

(The examination under oath was adjourned at

15

Okay.

Very good.

10:19 a.m.)

16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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1

COUNTY OF DAUPHIN

2
3
4

:
: SS

COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

I, Diane F. Foltz, a Notary Public, authorized to

administer oaths within and for the Commonwealth of

Pennsylvania, do hereby certify that the foregoing is the

testimony of Stanley J. Caterbone.

8
9

I further certify that before the taking of said


statement, the witness was duly sworn; that the questions

10

and answers were taken down stenographically by the said

11

Reporter-Notary Public, and afterwards reduced to

12

typewriting under the direction of the said Reporter.

13
14
15

I further certify the said statement was taken at the


time and place specified in the caption sheet hereof.
I further certify I am not a relative or employee or

16

attorney or counsel to any of the parties, or a relative or

17

employee of such attorney or counsel, or financially

18

interested directly or indirectly in this action.

19

I further certify that the said statement

20

constitutes a true record of the testimony given by the

21

said witness.

22
23
24
25

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand


this 13th day of June, 2016.
_______________________
Diane F. Foltz, RMR
Notary Public

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Stan J. Caterbone
ADVANCED MEDIA GROUP

Freedom From Covert Harassment & Surveillance,


Registered in Pennsylvania

1250 Fremont Street


Lancaster, PA 17603
www.amgglobalentetainmentgroup.com
stancaterbone@gmail.com

Richmond City Council


May 19, 2015
Richmond City Council Public Hearing of May 19, 2015

Passing a City Resolution 5-2 to Ban Spaced-Based


Weapons in Support of the Many Targeted Individuals
Suffering Symptoms of the City
Transcribed for Advanced Media Group, Originally published:

May 19, 2015

Richmond, California City Council hears from victims and advocates and votes in support of the Space
Preservation Act and the Space Preservation Treaty to permanently ban spaced-based weapons.

Jovanka Beckles Council Member Introduced This Resolution

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RICHMOND CITY COUNCIL BANS SPACED-BASED WEAPONS


COUNCIL MEETING HELD MAY 19, 2015
Mayor:

One is to adopt a resolution in support of the Space Preservation Act and the Spaced-Based

Treaty to permanently ban Space-based weapons. And we have 15 speakers for this item.
Council Member Beckles, would you like to introduce this?
Beckles : I would. You know I think what I would like to do is just kind of rehash the statement of this
issue for those that dont have the agenda in front of them. The city of Richmond is a welcoming and safe
area for all of our residents. We have led the way in so many initiatives that protect and provide the rights
for all of our residents to feel safe. And so its imperative that Richmond adopt this resolution in order to
stand in solidarity with residents who claim to be under assault with spaced-based weapons that should be
outlawed by the Space Preservation Act.
Now, the thing about this is that were not trying something new here. This is in support of what is already
there at the federal level. So we say as a council we support this treaty thats already in affect and we also
support our residents who are feeling attacked by certain kinds of weapons. And so the purpose of this
resolution is to show support for our residents that identify themselves as targeted individuals by
supporting the Space Preservation Act thats been passed by Congress and the Space Preservation Treaty
to permanently ban spaced-based weapons.
Now, many targeted individuals believe they have been personally attacked by weaponry that should be
outlawed by the Space Preservation Act. Some years ago one of the residents who is going to talk now, I
met with her. I met with many of them, to talk about this issue. Ive also spoken with our police
department. The representative from the department was Captain Gagan to figure out how law
enforcement can support these individuals, first of all, by at least listening and not assuming, and actually
just taking reports of incidences that are reported. And the police department was open to that, and is
open to that, and are willing to work with our residents in helping them to feel safe. Because its important
that we all feel safe living in our city. And in our city we have put forth our best effort to listen and respect
the voices and wisdom and experiences of our residents.
And so I dont intend to ignore it and Im hoping that my colleagues on this (unclear word) wont ignore,
but support those who suspect they have been exposed to these types of inhumane attacks with the intent
to cause them great emotional and bodily harm. And Im encouraged by these residents, these citizens of
Richmond, who stood up to protect these other residents here. Id like to encourage other officials at the
local, state and national level to explore methods to expand support to all residents. And as many as
you can see those of us with an agenda in front of us, and those who dont have an agenda in front of
you, who may be watching, or the livecast on the web, is that there is no financial impact to this. This is
not going to cost anything and its not going to hurt anyone to pass it. But it certainly would continue to
cause emotional distress to those who are being targeted if we dont pass this. And I urge you to support
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all of our residents in the city.
Mayor: Do we have questions from council members? Okay, Vice Mayor.
V Mayor: Just real quickly. You mentioned that this was passed by Congress. Can you tell me when that
happened because Im trying to look it up now and I thought that was just introduced in 2001 and never
was
Beckles: Actually, Ms Anderson can probably answer that question. When was it passed at the federal
level, Ms Anderson?
Anderson:

9/10/2002. Space Preservation Act, former Congressman Dennis Cosenich had introduced

this bill.
Vice Mayor: But was that
Mayor:

Were sort of getting out of our process here. I think that (word unclear) do you have other

questions?
Vice Mayor: Well, Im looking at the sheet that youre looking at. It looks like thats when the Burkley
City Council passed a resolution, not when Congress passed the law. Im looking on line at the House
website. And I know that theres, I understand that theres been multiple versions of this so I dont know if
its been passed or not. But from what it looks like here, it doesnt look like that version was passed by
Congress, so I dont know if it was. But I understand the Burkley City Council passed it on 9/10 of 2002.
Mayor: Other questions from the council?
Mayor:

So I had a couple of questions. Im looking at the resolution and it talks about the Space

Preservation Act. Can you tell me what act that was? Theres never been a Space Preservation Act passed,
right?
Beckles: It wasnt passed. It was brought forward by the Representative, the Congressman at the time.
Because there were some, you know how it goes in Washington, theres just a lot of power play. So it
never gotbut it did get passed in 2002 in Burkley. So were making ours similar to the one that was
passed in Burkley.
Mayor: Well it doesnt say anything about Burkley here. All it says is the Space Preservation Act. Are you
talking about the resolution Burkley passed or are you talking about one of the two resolutions that
Representative Cosenich introduced in 2001 and 2002?
Beckles: Well because that one didnt pass were just making reference that it was brought forward by
Dennis Cosenich, and of course politics being the way they are, it did not pass. So this is, Im making
reference to and using the Burkley model as an example of ours.
Mayor: Which one of the Cosenich resolutions did the Burkley model refer to?
Anderson: HR3616. House Resolution 3616.
Mayor: I didnt hear you, what?
Anderson: House Resolution 3616.
Mayor: 3615.
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Anderson: 3616. 1. 6.
Mayor: The research I did on this, that resolution was substantially different than HR2977.
Anderson: Yes sir.
Mayor:

And significantly it omitted any references to chem trails, particle beams, electromagnetic

radiation, plasmas, extremely low frequency or ultra-high frequency energy radiation and mind control
technology. So, the question I have is, it seemed to me, it was your intent to include all these in it, right?
So if you go with HR3616 and we approve this, it will not include any of these things I named. Was that
your intent?
Beckles: That was not my intent. My intent, and working with staff, of course, it helped put this together,
because we know that we get help with our staff. The intention was to include all of the things that people
are feeling, yeah, that people are feeling the pressures of and feeling the attacks of, and so I think thatI
dont know how much of this issue that Burkley had in theirs. But I think that to include these, and this is
the resolution saying we support this treaty, this act. Then Id like to have it in there. Because again, to
me its important that we defend, that we support and that we protect our residents. And so if these are
the things that residents are saying theyre feeling, then it should be in there.
Mayor: Well, all Burkley did, and Im looking at the Burkley resolution, and it just says, It is the will of
the council and the city of Burkley that the US Senate and House of Representatives enact, and the US
President sign and enforce the Space Preservation Act. But Im confused because there were actually two
Space Preservation Acts introduced and I think if were going to do this right, we need to define which one
were going to support. Because theyre different.
Beckles: Youre absolutely right. And I want the best one to move forward as well, and Im sure that the
residents want the best one and so.
Mayor: Which one is the best one?
Anderson: HR2977.
Mayor: So that would be HR2977.
Anderson: Yes.
Beckles: Which is the one that includes
Anderson: Everything.
Mayor: Ok, so, with that in mind, I dont have any more council people... oh I do too. Council Member
yeah, Ive got a bunch; Council Member Martinez and Council Member McLaughlin.
Martinez: Yes, I wanted to change the language to say that we endorse the intent of the act since the
act is not actually in place.
Mayor: The intent of which act?
Martinez: The intent of the second act.
Mayor: The second one is HR3616.
Beckles: Are you talking about HR2977 which includes all that, right? Which includes the chem trails. Is
that right?
Mayor: Thats my understanding of it.
Beckles: Is that right, Council Member Martinez?
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Martinez: Is that the revision? Right.
Mayor: Council Member McLaughlin.
McLaughlin: Actually I did some research on this too. Apparently Representative Cosenich didnt read
fully the first resolution that was brought forward in his name. He brought it forward based on some
recommendations. And when he realized it was drawn out to the level that it was, he pulled it. And he
brought forward the second one, which is 3616, which I think is more general.
Many of us remember, just to share some input going back, many of us remember in the 80s, Ronal
Reagan brought forth the Strategic Defense Initiative, which was later dubbed Star Wars, you know, thats
where this all came from. Basically, it was to put weapons technology into space as a global shield, as a
supposed defense against China and the Soviet Union. It was later seen as infeasible. And many others..
many people saw this as the idea to put weapons in spacewas insane. And I happen to think it was a
crazy idea, as did the population at large.
Then the Clinton administration in 1993 morphed it into the Ballistic Missile Defense. Later in 2002, which
is currently now the Missile Defense Agency. But also, along the way, in 2002 Dennis Cosenich introduced
this bill, and its the second one that he fully introduced, 3616, which basically called for a ban on spacedbased weapons. And then it was, I think it was just introduced, a co-sponsor was Representative Barbara
Lee, and at a certain point, this Space Preservation Act that was just introduced was brought to the UN
and the Space Preservation Treaty was linked with it. And actually the UN had previously addressedset
upestablished, I guess the basis for this treaty by saying they wanted a permanent ban on spaced-based
weapons that passed in the United Nations that passed 156 to 0. Then Burkley supported the 2002 the
Space Preservation Act and I believe also, the Space Preservation Treaty.
So thats what Council Member Beckles is referring to in terms of the resolution that shes brought
forward. I dont know how anyone can not support not having weapons in space when it has been
supported by the UN and also been supported, clearly stated by many experts that its infeasible this
original Ronald Reagan plan to dub this Star Wars.
I think the resolution is fine as it is. It basically says that the residentsthe well-being of our residents is
of importance to us and it also, it doesnt state pro or con in terms of what individuals are saying. But it
just refers to the fact that our residents deserve to be protected. And in general it states that spacedbased weapons are something that the city of Richmond does not support. (applause)
Mayor: Okay, so would you call the public speakers?
Anderson:

Speakers are Amy Anderson, Jesse Beltrand, Dr. John Hall, Dr. Edward Spencer, Ben

Colonson, Lisa Becker and Derrick Robinson.


Beckles: Amy Lee Anderson.
Anderson:

Yes

Mayor: Could you come over here to the podium to speak, please?
Anderson: Good evening Council Members, Council Beckles. I really want to thank you for not deviating
your plan because I went on your Facebook and I saw why you came in office and you never deviated your
plan. You said that you wanted to first put the community first and from you doing that, I want to thank

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you first. And secondly, as a psychologist, a child psychologist, I want to thank you for putting up with
some of those pains I have suffered along this way. But I am here in happiness, in a moment of greatness.
I have a perfect city. Nowhere in the United States, no targeted individual can get this kind of support
that I have gotten. We just needed just one person, one city. And because of that, you all are our heroes,
and we want to thank you. And I can go on and say much much.
But we are dying within because the technology is so sophisticated. Its hard for someone who has no
experience to fathom it. It is so sophisticated. So what we are saying to you all is please let us help you
understand enough, as someone outside looking in to our lives. Because were in pain, we are tortured
and we are humiliated every day in our lives because our lives have taken on a path. We dont even know
how or why we have this type of people on this planet who would harm in this type of way. And I just want
to thank you all. And you, Mayor, for you being in the cityworking in the service. Being in the service. For
others to do this, I know that should sadden you. (applause)
Jesse Beltrand: Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor and City Council Members. My name is Jesse Beltrand.
Im the president of the International Center Against the Use of Covert Technologies. Our organization was
formed in 2010 in Sacramento California for the purpose to bring awareness to the general public and
legal systems around the world about serious human rights abuses with regards to the utilization of
remote influencing technologies. My colleagues and co-speakers today, hopefully well get John Hall, who
was the author of Guinea Pigs, Technologies of Control, which have been sent to each of you and signed. I
also have Dr. Edward Spencer, whos a Neurologist from the Yale School of Medicine and Ben Colonson who
is a PHD in psychology, and therapist, and co-author of a book about PTSD. I myself am a retired
Sacramento City Fire Paramedic and a recent graduate of HMI and do provide therapy to victims.
In 2010 I met Dr. Hall and when meeting him I discovered this phenomenon and asked, Why isnt
anything being done about this? He said its because of the symptomology. If everyone went to traditional
medicine and complained about what they were experiencing, they would be railroaded into the mental
health institutions. The fact of the matter is, this is affecting all demographics of society: the poor, the
rich, the elite. I see victims on a monthly basis and hear from hundreds of people every week. I currently
have over 23,000 correspondences from victims not only within, here in the United States, but around the
world.
What we have discovered is that there are hot pockets within the United States where there are victims
that are being exposed to these types of technologies. And as our speakers continue to speak they will
explain to you how that has developed. Currently the hot spots are New York, Florida, Chicago, Texas, and
California. Unfortunately, in California, the East Bay has the highest amount of victims that we have
collected in our database, within our study within our organization. This is why we are currently here
today.
Beckles: Your time has expired Sir.
Beltrand: Okay, thank you.
Beckles: Dr. John Hall. Dr. John Hall.
Beltrand: Dr. Hall is unable to be reached so were going to have Dr. Spencer here.
Spencer:

Mr. Mayor, City Council, thank you. Thank you for attacking this very difficult problem. And

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there are a lot of people around the world, especially in Europe, where I attended a counsel just recently,
in November, who thank you. Im a retired neurologist. I attended Stanford University, Yale University and
a residency at the University of California in San Francisco.
Ive studied this sort of problem for a period of time. And its been a mystery to me why medicine in
general does not approach this and study the multitude of documents that are out there. But this is the
case. And I wont answer this for you, because this is an ongoing study, ongoing problem. This is really
intense technology. Essentially what might be described as EEG heterodyning. The entire electrical activity
of the human brain can be captured in this super computer and certainly processed and then put back into
someone else. Imits science fiction. But unfortunately, its not science fiction. So naturally this is
difficult. So the technology is incredible. But basically this is a moral problem. Ethical problem. This is a
violation of the golden rule, any ethics, anything thats decent. And this is a major thing to consider. Its
also a violation of our constitutional rights. So thats an important thing to keep in mind.
To bring it back down to Richmond, I know there are a lot of targeted individuals here, and the police
encounter them. And cant understand this and help them. The medical community is hobbled by not
having a differential diagnosis. And many of the psychiatric disorders, they should say rule out
psychotronic disorders, but they dont. So they cant face it at all. Thank you.
Beckles: Ben Colonson
Colonson: I thank you all. Two minutes. Okay, lets go. Thank you all for your endurance. I see you listen
to a lot of humans. Im gonna talk really fast with two minutes to go. I am a psychologist. I have
evaluated many targeted individuals who have previously been diagnosed as delusional and psychotic and
my job is to deconstruct those diagnoses. Because of the methods of my colleagues that can actually
detect advanced nano-technology present in their bodies both through frequency emissions and
lymphaticbasicallylike when you fire a bullet theres a trajectory and the police can determine the
trajectory. There are chemical tests to do that. I was just gonna, very quickly, since its two minutes, this
is this months issue of Smithsonian Magazine that says, The Future is Here: Brain to Brain
Communication is Real. Targeted Individuals report synthetic telepathy, voices in their skull, people
putting thoughts in their head, things that up until now weve been told are complete delusion and lock
em up. But you know, the capabilities exist.
This is the National Nanotech Initiative. The last 15 years budgets of a billion and a half dollars just by the
federal governments non-black budgets. We dont know what they spend on the black budgets. Doing
experimental programs showing how nano sensors in people can give us much more data about humanity.
These technologies can be used for great good but they have apparently also been used for tremendous
evil in non-consensual human experimentation. There is great documentation on this.
I do think its a little unfortunate, that confusion about the Space Preservation Act. There arethe systems
SCADAS, theyre called. The acronym stands for Supervisory Control And Data Systems Systems. They
include a component of satellite communication from a central command post as well as components
inside the human beings, or targeted individuals. So although there is a component of these weapons
systems, and they are clearly weapons systems by the major nations on earth, theres an arms race on for
the mind at this time. Control of the human mind. The Human Brain Initiative is part of it. If I only have
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two minutes I have to stop there. I hope you will listen to these people. They are suffering greatly as nonconsensual experimentees.
Beckles: A question, really quick, to the speaker. Could you repeat the names of those two references
that you gave, the magazines? Can you give me the names of those again, please?
Colonson: The first one, the current issue of the Smithsonian Magazine. A main stream magazine, which
in this months issue, says communicating brain to brain. And this is merely what they are releasing
publicly. The majority of the most advanced weapons systems are classified and we dont know the full
capabilities. This is just the supplemental to the presidents budget, this years Nanotechnology Initiative.
And what I didnt get to say in my two minutes is the National Registry of Environmental Professionals,
which certifies people to do all kinds of environmental quality testing, has just certified SCADAS,
Supervisory Control And Data Administration Systems, as something that needs to be studied for its
environmental impact on the environment in general. And I am part of the HSCADAS task force, how
these SCADAS systems are impacting human beings. And there are thousands of reports from targeted
individuals that crimes are being committed against them. And my intention in coming here tonight was to
support their claims so that law enforcement, with as much
Mayor: I think she asked you the names of the magazinesso
Beckles: Thank you very much. Lisa Becker.
Becker: Hi. Good evening. My name is Lisa Becker and I came here from Racine, Wisconsin. I have been
a victim of this technology for 14 years. I have been tortured for 14 years. My justice department has
failed me. My executive branch has failed me. My senators have failed me. My congressmen have failed
me. You are the only people in this country who have had the courage to even put this on the agenda.
Thats why I flew all this way to thank you, and to address you. This is torture. And it is enslavement. And
any one of these people can tell you the same thing. We have suffered desperately. And Im sorry if Im
emotional. But Im very tired. But if you wont save us, save yourselves. Because I promise you, this will
come back to every one of you. Every one of us in this country are going to be tapped into these computer
systems and you are gonna see what this feels like. Do something now while you still can. Thank you.
Council Member: I have a question. Could you be more specific in terms of how you feel that youve
beenthe injustice.
Becker: You mean in terms of the justice department failing me?
Council Member: Well in terms of your being a victim.
Becker: You mean in what Im feeling?
Council Member: Yeah, explain a little bit to me how you perceive yourself as being.
Becker:

Sure, well I have actual photographs of burns on my body. When I went to my doctor, the

response was, Well how do I know you didnt do that to yourself? How do you address that? Ive passed
two psychological evaluations. Not one but two. The one physician said, Youre sound as a bell. I have no
idea whats going on with you. When I go to sleep, when I go to try to sleep, I feel like Im being lit up
like a Christmas tree. I feel like every cell in my body just bouncing out of my body. I cant even describe
it. I get electric shock up my rectum. I get electric shock up my nose. Ive woken up with burns on the
end of my tongue. Ive had burns on the palms of both my hands. I vibrate. I vibrate. I can barely hold a
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piece of paper without quivering. Does that answer your question?
Council Member: Im trying to find out whats the source.
Becker:

The source are these exotic weapons. They talk about, in 2977, they talk about the space

weapons, spaced-based weapons. Basically in that document they talk about exotic weapons. Thats what
were talking about. And the fact of the matter is they did complete that global surveillance network. My
cousin worked for the defense department. She worked on the global mapping of that system. And when I
told her what I was going through, all she could say was, Youre on your own. Well, I figured that out. I
figured that out. If you would please, I urge you to pass this. I realize you cant enforce it, but if you
would pass it, it might give other communities the courage to do the same thing and show our defense
department we are not the enemy. We are not to be attacked. We are not terrorists. Most of us are
defenseless women.
Mayor: Okay, thank you.
Becker: Thank you.
Beckles:

Our next speaker is Derrick Robinson, followed by Laquisha Baker, Dolores Hall, Kim, Alex,

Elizabeth Adams, Robert Swegan. Please come forward. Derrick Robinson.


Robinson: Good evening everyone. Im Derrick Robinson. In regards to the Space Preservation Act that
is before you, many of us have travelled here to say thanks very much for listening and responding to so
many that have come to you over the past couple of years. This is a momentous occasion for our
organization and for humanity. You are one of the very few governing authorities that has considered the
danger of psychotonic technologies. Research in this area has been ongoing since the 50s by government
agencies, corporations, criminal elements, and religious cults, etc. But, only since the arrival of the
internet, has this holocaust been made known to thousands of people who have found that they are
victims of psychotonic technologies. And that they have been sereptisciously victimized by them. And as
the devices proliferate and the public becomes more aware of these covert activities, legislation on a local
and national level will be needed to address the concerns with regard to a vulnerable society. Your
resolution today would be a giant step forward in ensuring the health, safety and well-being for all people.
Thank you.
Beckles: Laquisha Baker
Baker:

Hello to all the legislators, and city hall, Javanka, my girl Amy over there. I have been a

Richmond resident 40 plus years. Ive seen two of my friends try and fight this fight. But their minds are
gone and theres no coming back. My mother was a Black Panther. They killed her. She was only 58 years
old. And Im just happy at this moment that somebody in our town, our city, has opened the doors for
many people who couldnt make it, didnt make it, and were survivors of it. And I just want to say thank
you.
Beckles: Dolores Hall.
Hall: I did not know you were going to call me to speak. But I will share. I head up the Los Angeles
Freedom from Covert Harassment Group. Its a support group. And I have about 300 people that is in that
group. And I get over 400 emails on a weekly basis of people asking me to help them, begging me, please
help. No one will listen to me. I am 65 years old and as I walk here, up to this podium, Im in so much
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pain. I have burns all over my body. Theymy doctor I had treated with for 16 years, my legs swelled up
from the electric magnetic frequencies hitting me on my legshe told me to go to the hospital. And when I
went to the hospital they were supposed to put an IV in me. They sent me to the mental ward because
they said I did this to myself. I would never hurt me. I have been a victim since 2007. You cant see this
horrific electric hitting you. Electric is invisible. You take a remote control to turn your tv, turn on your
television. It hurts so bad. I want to thank you for opening your minds and your time today. I am a retired
legal investigator. I have asked all my friends, I have very prominent friends, to help me. They cant do
anything about this. It is way, way over our heads. They say its the shadow government. It is people that
cannot be touched. Please help us.
Beckles: Kim, next speaker.
Buckner: Hello, my name is Kimberly Buckner and I have been a targeted individual for a very long time.
The things that Ive experienced due to being targeted, they have been unreal. However, I can attest that
they are very real indeed. My life has been destroyed in every possible way and every day has been a
struggle for me. I am very grateful to be before you today due to Amy Andersons due diligence and to
everyone else involved. I thank you council members for giving us targeted individuals a chance to speak
and to be heard. And I pray that these atrocities will soon be brought to an end. But we need your help.
Thank you.
Beckles: Alex
Rafter: Good evening, my name is Alec Rafter. I am an NYU graduate and have spent much of my time
working in a financial holding company in San Francisco. I have been a targeted individual for eight years
six months. Im from Lafayette, California, which is in this county. I am here to support and corroborate
what these other speakers are trying to convey. This technology exists and is being used on a mass scale.
It is torturous, brutal and inhumane. It happens everywhere I go. People dont understand the capabilities
of this technology. The person I came with here tonight was being shocked and stabbed in this very room
with a directed energy weapon while waiting to speak with the council. My ears are getting frequency
tinnitus while I was sitting here waiting for you as well as technology called voice to skull Dr. Alan Frey.
Like I said, this happens everywhere I go in Northern and Southern California. Ive been tortured all day,
all night, minute after minute, year after year after year. We need your help and support to stop this, to
save us, and to prevent this from happening to others. Please support banning these so called spacedbased weapons. Thank you very much.
Beckles: Robert Swegan
Swegan: Good evening. My name is Robert Swegan. I live in Modesto California. Im here tonight after
being targeted for 12 years with direct energy weapons, voice to skull. I wake up in the middle of the
night in excruciating pain. Theres nobody I can call. Theres nobody to help me. You know, sometimes I
have suicidal idealization because theres no one to help. You know, Ive been diagnosed schizophrenic,
delusional, at 53 and 57 years old. Im a graduate of junior college with a degree in counseling and human
service. I commend you people for what youre doing here. I want toIm here to support my friends. And
I know this has been very difficult for me and my family. My familyI have 4 children. One is in prison

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right now. I suspect he was here for about 45 minutes. And others will not even talk to me. My familys
been fragmented. I dont tell anybody whats happening to me anymore. Its a dark secret with me. I
cannot explain to people whats happening. The police in Modesto are at least talking to me now. Theyre
not taking me down to the mental health facility. I thank you very much for listening to me.
Beckles: Marilyn Languist
Languist:

Good evening Mayor and Council Members. Marilyn Languist, Richmond resident. I want to

thank Ms Anderson for bringing this topic forward and for bringing so many speakers. I urge you to adopt
this resolution. As has been said, the original Space Preservation Act was originally introduced by
Congressman Cosenich, co-sponsored by Congresswoman Barbara Lee and Congressman Pete Stark of the
Bay Area. And this concept was also voted on and supported unanimously by the United Nations to
prohibit weaponization of space and spaced-based weapons. These are clearly not good for anyone on
earth and not good for anyone in Richmond. You have to be aware that there are a lot of exotic weapons
research programs going on. Some of them covert, some of them not covert. A former Richmond resident
sent me a lot of emails last year about a public comment period for allowing US military testing of directed
energy weapons in the Olympic peninsula in the state of Washington, which is of great concern. In terms
of the types of weapons that are affecting these individuals, before you judge the targeted individuals, I
would suggest that you listen to them, take the time to really listen deeply to their experience. Try to put
yourself in their shoes for a moment. If you can believe them, then please do what you can to support
them. If youre not sure, then I urge you to take the precautionary principle, when in doubt error on the
side of extra protection for those who are vulnerable. So please do adopt this resolution. Thank you.
Beckles: Sylvia Gray White
White: Good evening. My name is Sylvia Gray White, a very long time Richmond resident. Tonight Im so
thankful and happy that our city is looking up, waking up and standing up. Approval of this agenda item
will make an impact on the whole world and will help us to restore our mother earth and our health. The
heavy metal toxins falling down on us daily from the chem trails are done by our military without our
approval and knowledge. Lead is one of the many chemicals in the chem trails even though our
government banned it decades ago. Banned it from paint, toys, even bullets, and other manufacturing
processes. This toxin has really negatively impacted my life. Lead is very toxic and there are no safe
levels. It displaces the calcium in your bones among many other illnesses, particularly with children. The
level of lead in my body has drastically increased in the past 3 years. Ive gotta get the lead out. We need
to stop this constant daily abuse of our universal rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If you
cant feel good, you cant live good. I am not the only one breathing this pollution. If you breathe, youre
breathing it too. We have rights. Stand up for them! Now in order to stand Ive got to use a cane. But I
still can stand and will stand up for whats right.
Beckles: Our last speaker is Elizabeth Adams.
Adams: First and foremost Id like to pass this cell phone around. This is what electronic burns look like.
This is my 6 year old grand-daughter who has been targeted since birth. So can I just walk around and
show this to you?

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Mayor: Give it to the clerk.
Adams: This was taken less than 30 days ago at Eden hospital. Thats when you hear of the victim speak
of being electronically burned. That is my 6 year old grand-daughter. I am 59 years old. I have 6
grandchildren and 2 great grand- children. I first and foremost want to say that I thank God for every one
of you. And I mean literally from the bottom of my heart. I thank him for each one of you and I thank him
for the blessings that hes gonna bring your way just for addressing these issues. These issues are beyond
the average eye. The average eye cant even see it. So its not even worth even talking about in that
sense. I have sent each and every one of you information. Everything that I sent you is just what you
need to know. But theres one more thing left:

your local fusion center. You need to do some deep

research into your local fusion center. Just look it up on line. That is where you will find information, ill
activities of some sort, that is going on withinIm not going to say city government because I cant
pinpoint it. But you need to look into your local fusion center. Secondly, mental health of children(timer
beeping).May I finish just two minutes please?
Mayor: No, I think we need to give everybody the same amount of time. Thank you.
Adams: Okay, no problem.
Beckles: That was the last speaker.
Mayor: (lady asked to speak) Maam, you know, if you didnt sign up you cant speak. Okay, I have Vice
Mayor Meyers.
Vice Mayor:

I was just gonna briefly say that the weaponization of space as the history that was so

eloquently described by Council Member McLaughlin is something that I think is extremely immoral and we
should not be, as a nation, engaging in and so Im gonna support this resolution based on that.
Mayor: Do we have any other speakers? Okay, hearing none, do we have a motion?
Beckles: I can make a motion. I share that we adopt the resolution thats put before us.
Mayor: Motion of second?
Beckles: Pinplay has something
Mayor: Oh, Councilman Pinplay
Pinplay:

I just want to address for a second this whole idea about weaponization of space and there

seems to be this assumption that just because Ronald Reagan supported Star Wars, its automatically
become some unmitigated evil. The context in which it was considered a problem was simply because
there was this perception that Star Wars or any kind of strategic defense initiative could not be made
foolproof. And it could not be made foolproof because the opponent, particularly a very well-armed
opponent like the Soviet Union could launch like tens of thousands of dummy missiles at any one point
and so it would be almost impossible to intercept all of them and to distinguish the nuclear missiles from
the dummy missiles. And the understanding was that it would be that there could be a problem created
because based on the overestimation of the effectiveness of Star Wars, namely that America might think
that it was too effective and therefore, go for a first strike and knock out all the Soviet weapons. Or, on
the other hand, the Soviets might feel it was too effective and go for a preemptive strike beforehand. And
it was only in that specific cold war context that Star Wars was considered a horrible idea. Actually, Star
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Wars is not a particularly bad idea, the whole idea is that you can knock out someones weapons before
they enter your air space, in fact, long before they enter your air space. And this, for example, was
practiced more than 20 years ago, in the Gulf War, when the Patriot system modification of this was used
when the Patriot system knocked out some of the Iraqi missiles that were launched at Israel. And it is not
just a perfectly valid system, it is actually a particularly useful system, in the time that we have now
where there are nations that are not quite as well armed as the Soviet Union used to be in the 1980s.
Which may not have the capability to launch tremendous numbers of missiles at any one time. And, in
fact, this is a fairly useful system to have. And so this automatic knee jerk reaction that because Reagan
supported Star Wars and at the time it was considered a bad idea and so for that purpose it is considered
a bad idea forever, I just think this is a wrong understanding of the system. And I just wanted to mention
that.
Mayor: So we have Council Member McLaughlin next.
McLaughlin: So, I justthe reason I was interrupting because I dont think we should get into it. Thats
kind of way off base. I was just giving the history of this in general. I will say that there were some of us
in the 80s that were talking about a nuclear freeze like to stop the arms war rather than weapons in
space. You know, I think space should be for exploration and good things to learn, scientifically. Not for a
weapons trace.
Mayor: Wait, no, were not having anything from the audience. Council Member Martinez.
Martinez: Yes, just last week on 60 Minutes there was a special on the reintroduction to the arms war,
with people trying to develop missiles to take out communication satellites. But any kind of war effort is
wrong. And we need to do whatever we can to stop all war efforts. Now when I was in university in the
1980s for humanities class, I did a paper on a science fiction novel. What I actually did was, I took all of
the predictions in this science fiction novel, and then I went to magazines and newspapers, and I was
surprised to find that every single prediction in this science fiction novel, that was written 20 years earlier,
had already come true. And they were happening there, then, in 1980. So its easy for me to see that
things which are wrong can happen because we have the wrong mindset. We have the mindset which is a
war mindset and this proposition that was put forth by Cosenich was to change our attitudes towards one
of seeking peace, and thats why Im endorsing it.
Mayor: Okay, Vice Mayor.
Vice Mayor: Well, I want to say that I do think this debate is, it is on topic, because the debate on Star
Wars is sort of, was part of what initiated this. And what I would say, and its been said, that any sort of
in my viewthe idea that we dont have enough tools to kill each other here on earth and so that we need
to start doing it in space, that just is simply immoral. And you know, it may be that some wars are
unavoidable. That may be true. But whatever we can do to get our country to move away from that mind
set and move away from utilizing new methods of war, we should support. And so thats why I support this
resolution.
Mayor: Okay, if theres nobody else, lets vote. Wait. Council Member Pinplay.
Pinplay: So the motion before us, does that include things like chem trails and stuff, or no?

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Mayor: Well, let me, I think hes bringing up a good point, because, Im really confused. I think that the
resolution itself is very simple. It simply says, the city of Richmond thereby supports the Space
Preservation Act and companion Space Preservation Treaty to ensure that individuals will not be targets of
spaced-based weapons. So I see that. All the testimony Ive heard tonight is about targeted individuals.
And so, I mean, Im confused. Is this about spaced-based weapons or is it about targeted individuals? And
if individuals are targeted, whos targeting them and why? I just dont understand it.
Beckles: Its simple enough. Its saying that, on the thereforeas you read, we are supporting this Space
Preservation Act and companion Space Preservation Treaty and the reason were doing this is that
individuals will not be targets of spaced-based weapons, which is what theyre saying. All this stuff is high
technology, itsand sothats what were adopting here. And you know, whether you believe it or not, one
thing that was very clear, and Ive met with folks a lot around this issue, and some of them Im just
hearing tonight. And even the ones I heard tonight, just out of compassion for folks that are saying help
us, and us supporting this, by adopting this resolution, I think it sends out a message that, you know, we
sympathize with you, we support you, and the very least we can do is just pass this resolution to make
sure that you feel the support and love and sympathy that you deserve. Its simple, it reads right there
Mayor. Thats all were trying to pass. Whats there before you. Thats all were trying to pass. Dont
complicate it. Its simple, so vote it yes or no.
Mayor: I sympathize with everyone who is suffering some kind of affliction. But on the other hand, you
know, in 1967, the US adopted, or the President signed the treaty on the principles guarding the activities
of states in the exploration and use of outer space including the moon and other celestial bodies. So the
US government has acted on this, and they have, within that particular treaty, is a ban on using outer
space for military purposes. So, I just dont understand what were talking about. Are we talking about the
weaponization of space? Are we talking about chem trails? Are we talking about individuals who are being
targeted? If so, by whom and why? I mean, you know, Im just a dumb city council person and this is way,
way over my head. And I frankly think that its sort of way out of the purview of what this city council
could be taking up.
Weve got real problems here. Weve got potholed roads, weve got a budget thats out of balance, weve
got crime, weve got greenhouse gases. Weve got all these things to worry about and here Im being
asked to support a resolution that deals with things like chem trails and particle beams and plasmas and
mind control technologies. I just dont know enough about it. If I were an expert Id probably take a side,
but Im not. And so for that reason Im just not gonna support it. Maybe some time Ill learn more and be
more oriented
Beckles: Id like to call the questions.
Mayor: Council Member Bates
Bates: Well, it is confusing. Im gonna support the resolution for the simple reason that weve voted on
lot of dumber ideas than this resolution represents. And again, we know that we dont control the
universe, we dont control Congress. So this is the least of my worries. So, Im gonna support it. Now call
for the questions.
Mayor: Does anybody else want to talk about it? Okay, lets just vote.
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Beckles: Council Member Pinplay? No. The motion passes 5-2 with Council Member Pinplay voting no,
and Mayor Butt voting no.
Bates: One reason I voted for it was there wasnt one speaker in opposition of it.

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Richmond council passes resolution supporting ban on space-based wea...

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http://www.eastbaytimes.com/portlet/article/html/fragments/print_article....

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Richmond: Space weapons resolution prompts requests to


investigate
By Karina Ioffee kioffee@bayareanewsgroup.com
East Bay Times
Posted:Mon Jun 01 18:42:20 MDT 2015

RICHMOND -- A city resolution banning space weapons within city limits has prompted dozens of calls to the Richmond Police
Department in recent days to ask the agency to investigate the alleged use of chips, bugs and other devices for mind and body
control.
On May 19, the City Council approved a resolution supporting the Space Preservation Act and Space Preservation Treaty
permanently banning "space-based weapons," such as microchips planted in people's bodies and micro waves that supporters
believe are used by nefarious sources to harm them.
The resolution was written by Councilwoman Jovanka Beckles, who works as a mental health specialist for Contra Costa County,
and aimed at "making all Richmond residents feel safe," she said.
"I don't intend to ignore the concerns from residents who say they have been exposed to these attacks that have caused them great
emotional and bodily harm," Beckles said.
The fallout has prompted worries that Richmond, which is working hard to remold its image in recent years, will be dismissed as
slightly off by the news media and other municipalities.
" I am trying to figure out how we can use this newfound fame to help market Richmond, much as desolate eastern Nevada has
used the Extraterrestrial Highway to lure tourists to an otherwise deserted stretch of desert highway," joked Richmond Mayor Tom
Butt in a recent online posting.
But the issue actually started last June, when Richmond police Capt. Mark Gagan was asked by Beckles to meet with residents who
said they were being targeted by space technology. Eager to show the department was sensitive to residents' concerns, Gagan
agreed.
"My desire was how to better serve this population from a public safety standpoint," said Gagan, a 20-year veteran with the
department. "There are people who have a huge amount of stress, anxiety and fear. These issues have public safety implications
no matter how far-fetched they seem."
The meeting had the best of intentions. But it appears to have also motivated conspiracy theorists who began to see the city as an
ally. Gagan began receiving invitations to speak at conferences organized by the "targeted individuals" community, and a rumor
started that the city had a task force devoted to uncovering government conspiracies. One organization even gave Gagan a
"humanitarian award" for his work on the issue.
"People were thrilled that someone was finally listening to them," Gagan said.
Since that meeting, he estimates that he's received more than 100 calls from people from as far away as Ireland who say they want
Richmond police to investigate their particular situations. Gagan always takes the time to explain that the department looks at facts
and has so far found no evidence to support concerns raised by callers.
"We try to refocus the conversation, and if they are local, get them into a managed program of medication and supervision," Gagan
said.
Contact Karina Ioffee at 510-262-2726 or kioffee@bayareanewsgroup.com. Follow her at Twitter.com/kioffee

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6/5/2016 6:47 AM

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Stan J. Caterbone
ADVANCED MEDIA GROUPFreedom From

Covert Harassment & Surveillance,


Registered in Pennsylvania

1250 Fremont Street


Lancaster, PA 17603
www.amgglobalentetainmentgroup.com
stancaterbone@gmail.com

CORROBORATING EXPERT AND FORMER NSA WHISTLEBLOWER


KAREN STEWART
DISCLOSURE OF ELECTROGAGNETIC WEAPONS USED TO KILL CERTAIN
TARGETED INDIVIDUALS DURING APRIL 10, 2016 RADIO INTERVIEW

THE DISCLOSURE
Karen Stewart graduated from Florida State University in 1979 with a BS degree in German Language
and a minor or co-major equivalent in Fine Art. She worked for NSA (National Security Agency) from
1982 to 2010. Her resume will follow.

Her video interviews can be seen on the following YOUTUBE links:

Wheel of Freedom (WUA) 4/4/16 Ex-NSA Karen Stewart


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExpCL27ft10

NSA whistle blower Karen Stewart exposes targeted Individuals, 9/11


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ravXai6nfMg
On March 9, 2016 I was detained and falsely imprisoned by no less than 8 NSA Security Police

on the barracks of the Headquarters of the NSA at Ft. Meade Maryland.

I was handcuffed, and

interrogated for over an hour, while my car was dog sniffed and searched. I was ordered to return to
Lancaster rather than continue on to Washington, D.C., and was ordered not to enter any federally
owned property again. The following is a video of my statement:
Statement and Video of False Imprisonment re Handcuffed and Interrogation for an hour at NSA

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Headquarters (National Security Agency at Ft. Meade, Maryland) by 8 NSA Police officers on March 9,
2015 Recorded on March 11, 2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeXlaQn5Nhs
Karen Stewart's resume at the NSA is as follows: I Worked various projects over the years, not
just USSR/Russia, but various countries researching/reporting on foreign military status and alliances,
weapons development and proliferation, the Chernobyl disaster and aftermath, the fall of the Iron
Curtain

and

changing

relations

among

newly

liberated

countries,

economic

and

diplomatic

developments of certain target countries. I researched and wrote a series of intelligence reports in
support of Operation Iraqi Freedom that kept secret Russian countermeasures sold to Iraq from
wreaking havoc on the American invasion. This ultimately is what got me fired because I questioned
why my work was used to promote another employee who had no experience with but, was credited
with my work .
The following transcript of an interview by Karen Stewart in which she describes the lethal
electromagnetic weapons and her experience on being on the receiving end was taken from the article
titled NSA Whistleblower Comes Out of the Shadows Into the Light and can be found at:
http://canadafreepress.com/article/nsa-whistleblower-comes-out-of-the-shadows-intothe-light

The article was written by Sher Zieve -- Bio and Archives and published March 28, 2016. The byline is
as follows: In February, 2014 I published an interview of an NSA Whistleblower. This is a follow-up to
that column. Due to recent threats to her person and other exigent circumstances, the Whistleblower
has decided to come out of the shadows and into the light. I am honored that she again chose me to
write her story.

KAREN STEWART'S TRANSCRIPT


First of all, the case STEWART V. NSA is a righteous lawsuit, (brought in 2010) meaning it is a
clear case of employer abuse of power and position to an egregious and even premeditated criminal
level meant to circumvent whistleblower protection laws like the No Fear Act. Simply put, I asked the
NSA Inspector General (IG) to investigate why my award-winning intelligence report series supporting
Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003) was used to promote an entirely different woman twice (2004 & 2005)
one who had nothing to do with my reports whatsoever, and was a known incompetent, but had
methodically sexually compromised many of the male managers within the Weapons & Space (W&S)
Directorate. Instead of following correct procedure, the IG and NSA Security decided to cover up the

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infraction by attacking me. Threats were made to paint my complaint as paranoid and to fire me for a
non-existent mental illness if I did not drop my effort to get credit for and the promotion for my own
work, given to the wrong woman. These threats quickly took shape as false accusations against me by
the guilty personnel obviously coached by Security, manifested with stalking harassment masquerading
as an investigation by NSA Security goons from 2006-2009. In late 2010, despite all evidence
showing my innocence from ridiculous and impossible charges, I was fired by an NSA Kangaroo court
with a predetermined agenda. My EEOC appeal (lawsuit) had been accepted for adjudication and the
judge had ordered no adverse action until its adjudication but NSA ignored his orders.
I moved from Columbia, Maryland back to my familys hometown of Tallahassee, Florida in 2011.
All was quiet until February 2015 when I instructed the law firm I had hired to subpoena evidence from
the Maryland Department of Motor Vehicles identifying a burglar (a now retired NSA Executive) who had
broken into my home very shortly after I had tried to make my 2006 Inspector General request for an
investigation, and stolen extra house, car, and mail keys as well as illegally bugging (burst bug) our
home and phone/internet to facilitate further harassment and likely search for blackmail material (no
luck for them there).
After the subpoena, I began noticing Security types in Tallahassee following me and photostalking me by March/April. Their license plates suggested Naval Security Group from Pensacola and
NSA Security personnel from Georgia (Augusta) and Texas (San Antonio). A quick check with the Leon
County Sheriffs Department, specifically Duty Officer deputy Canon, confirmed that NSA also had
personnel land at a private airport and deputies had escorted them the the Phipps property north of
Lake Jackson (near where I now live) for a secret exercise, just before the second round of stalking
harassment began. The sequence of events seems to have been for NSA Security to contact the Naval
Security Group in Pensacola, Florida (Headquartered at Ft. Meade, Maryland along with NSA) to initially
stalk and photograph me under ridiculous false pretenses until NSA could send its own Security
personnel to Tallahassee. Once there, under guise of authority, it appears that NSA enlisted the help of
the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) and its civilian group, InfraGard, made up of
civilians recruited from their Ride-Along programs. As usual, NSA personnel fabricated some big lie as
to why the civilians should actively and passively stalk and harass me, and despite quite obvious
questions about why laws and due process were to be completely suspended in my case, the group
eagerly jumped at the opportunity for hundreds to gang up on one person (for Federal money, I may
add).
Thus, under NSA tutelage and FDLE auspices, suddenly I was a cast-iron target, meaning
multiple people covered me wherever I was, whatever I did. Cars were even stationed near my home
overnight on rotating shifts, beeping to each other when changing shifts but also for my benefit. NSA
also sought out willing neighbors to augment their snooping and harassment efforts, which could be
anything from hosting an NSA Security goon for accessibility to my property, both home (to bug and

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monitor short-distance transmissions) and car (to install and switch out vehicle GPS trackers to
facilitate car stalking and impeding as harassment. ) Those were the active participants, others not
assigned to me on a certain shift were ordered to quickly text in to a special site the big bad threat to
report my location and time I was there. People even snooped in my shopping carts to be able to tattle
to someone about what I was doing, what I was buying. (God help us, she bought bananas!!! Save the
children!).
This was annoying enough but I tried to ignore it because I thought NSA once again was going
for the usual See, shes paranoid, reporting harassment every day now just dismiss her lawsuit!
But I did report acts of harassment that caused physical damage such as hit and run,
purposely sideswiping my car, (This is exatly what happened to the PETTITIONER on May 9,
2016 enroute to MEDEXPRESS for pain medications) and botching the placement/removal of
a GPS tracker under my rear spoiler that destroy my spoiler. (They feared my mechanic
would find their tracker so they botched its removal the night before my appointment). I
even made fun of my stalkers when I could, using my hobby art shop on a popular internet
site to create bumper magnets making fun of them. After all, they were mostly nave,
unsophisticated boobs who desperately imagined that they were little James Bonds and that
the greatest existential threat to their country was a woman waiting for her lawsuit to be
decided, living in Tallahassee, walking her dogs, visiting friends.
In late November 2015, however, NSA apparently decided that I was not sufficiently
being intimidated by their civilian confederacy of dunces to back off my lawsuit to recover
my stolen salary and stolen retirement at the appropriate pay level. In 2009 I had
researched gang-stalking and discovered it was a real and growing phenomenon, but when
electrical harassment was mentioned, I could not really grasp the concept and wondered
about its existence. But I was to find out first hand in November 2015 that it does exist and
is a horrific crime against humanity.
NSA and its operatives started using small, mobile devices called Directed Energy
Weapons (DEWs) against me and my family in the night. These mobile weapons emit
multiple types of electrical emanations from ultrasonic, to microwaves modulated to radio
frequencies, to other kinds of wave variations I cant say I understand yet. Now, with the
help of certain mercenary and morally depraved neighbors, the effort is almost 24/7 now
with the intention being torture and slow-kill. These types of weapons over a lengthy time,
cause cancer, autoimmune disease, heart attacks, seizures, strokes, etc. It is the perfect
stealth murder weapon for a corrupt government.
At this point, when we leave the house, a criminal base of stalkers has been enlisted
by NSA to follow us and aim the DEWs at us wherever feasible to increase exposure in order

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to speed up death, with the help of the InfraGard dimwits still texting in my location like
good little sheeple.
The Leon County Sheriffs Department as well as the Tallahassee Police Department
are dragging their feet, making excuses, denying any such thing exists, or insulting me when
I try to enlist their help to come up with a strategy to combat this new crime before I or
one of my family is dead. They cant quite grasp the fact that this is domestic terrorism and
nothing protects the police or any official from this new weapon held and wielded by
criminals. Yet, plenty of recruits in their ranks have experience using the mobile DEWs in
Iraq. It is very interesting to me that the Naval Security Group headquartered at Ft. Meade
with NSA, is also called the Silent Warriors because they specialize in the use of Directed
Energy Weapons. Im sure the Naval Security Group base in Pensacola has many on hand
and may have even gotten a request from NSA to borrow a few for their secret exercise in
Tallahassee.
Clearly, NSA is of the opinion that you do not have Constitutional Rights unless they
say you do. If they use this to get rid of an inconvenient lawsuit such as mine instead of
simply settling for a tenth of the cost of harassment, then they must feel confident they
can murder anyone, anywhere, for any reason and get away with itincluding any leader or
politician.

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There is no doubt that NSA is now run by sycophants and sociopaths

EXCLUSIVE: Former NSA Employee Speaks Out on its


Corruption Karen Stewart

By Sher Zieve -- Bio and Archives

February 20, 2014

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At the very least, for the past few months to a year it has become increasingly evident thatalthough
not allmany agencies of the US Federal government have become increasingly dirty, perverse and
corrupt and require a deep and thorough cleaning.
The US Secret Service has previously been exposed as including claims of involvement with
prostitutes, leaking sensitive information, publishing pornography, sexual assault, illegal wiretaps,
improper use of weapons and drunken behavior and the IRS was caught and admitted to denying
Obamas political enemies (aka TEA Party, Christians, religious Jews, conservatives) their Constitutional
rights while allowing progressive groups (aka Liberals, Leftists, Marxists, Maoists, Socialists,
Communists) theirs. Andlove him, hate him or fall somewhere in-betweenEdward Snowden shone a
very bright light on the unconstitutional domestic mega-spying of one of these clandestine agencies
the National Security Agency. Thus far, under Obamas increasingly iron rule, few-to-no members of
these agencies have even been indicted by Congress for their blatant crimes against the American
people.
The NSA appears to have begun as a patriotic organization that was geared toward protecting the USA
and its citizens. Whether or not that was its original intended purpose is a subject for discussion and
speculation. However, portions of the NSA seem to have devolved into something very sinister. Todays
interview will concentrate on this agency.

NSA Analyst. Due to a number of substantive reasons, this former Analysts identity cannot be divulged
at this time and will be referred to as W. I have, however, confirmed this individuals prior employment
and credentials via a well-known NSA Whistleblower. The information disseminated to me, amongst
other things tells a sordid story of corruption and how employees are silenced into submissionvia fear
within the agency,

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The Interview
Sher:Thanks so much for being with me, today, in order to provide essential additional information to
the public on how many of their tax dollars are really being spent. You were employed by the NSA for
over two decades. Would you tell the readers what initially attracted you to the agency as well as how it
has deteriorated over time?

Karen Stewart: Like many people from families with a strong history of serving our country, coming
out of college, I looked to find a way to best utilize my particular interests and talents in service to my
fellow Americans. The mission of the NSA it seemed to me, was to stop threats coming to our shores.
Its charter clearly targeted foreign nationals on foreign soil who did or could intend us harm. That
appealed to me as a righteous endeavor and honorable tack for my life to take.
Sher: Youve shared with me how the NSA deals with its employees who bring legitimate complaints to
their superiors. How thoroughly intimidating and threatening are their behaviors toward those who balk
at their adverse treatment? Would you give a few examples?

Karen Stewart: Apparently the nature of NSA Security degenerated under General Michael Hayden,
the previous Director of NSA (DIRNSA), who promoted a very questionable mid-level Security manager
to a power position within Security. Hayden had originally been tasked to eviscerate NSA since a very
shallow and short-sighted Congress believed that the fall of the Iron Curtain meant no danger existed
anywhere anymore that required the existence of a robust NSA presence. There evolved, under him, a
gratuitously vicious bully mindset that employees were to be intimidated at any opportunity not only to
drive them out of NSA but to cut back on people reporting problems that made NSA look bad, especially
problems involving upper management.
Under Hayden and his successor, General Keith Alexander, the filing of complaints to or requests for
investigations by the NSA EEO or the OIG (Office of the Inspector General) were often inexplicably
blown off despite adequate evidence or the presence of willing witnesses. Then the person who had
filed the complaint would be subjected to an out of cycle reinvestigation interview with Security as
well as polygraph exam, wherein the tone of the Security person was not neutralas it should bebut,
hostile with far-fetched or even ridiculous non-issues presented as potentially problematic. This was a
Security shot across the bow to warn the person that he had crossed the line by filing the complaint. If
he pursued the complaint, Security would lean on his managers to heavily discourage him from doing
what he thought was proper and was indeed a protected action under the law. If he persisted, did his
own amateur investigation, or told coworkers about the situation, he might be called down to Security
multiple times and accused of being paranoid and delusional based on his complaint, and his job
threatened.
The worse the infraction reported, especially if a high level manager looked to be involved, the more

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severe the reaction by Security. In cases of egregious wrong-doing by a manager, Security would
review the personnel files, medical files, and financial statements to find anything they could use to
threaten or blackmail him with, or pretend to misinterpret some tidbit of information as something it
was not.
Some people were forced to sign admissions of guilt of preposterous misinterpretations of facts in order
to keep their jobs, thereby killing their credibility and complaint. When nothing was found in such files
that could be used, a false accusation of espionage or leaking classified materials ginned up by Security,
was used to justify a Security intrusion into the persons home to search for blackmail material, further
assess the interests and personality of the targeted individual (TI), and plant bugs and abscond with an
extra set of keys for further intrusions. The more the person objected to being bullied, the more heavyhanded Security became, insisting that hostility toward them indicated wrong-doing on the TIs part.
Thus the TI would become harried and harassed for a crime he never committed, if it ever
even was committed, and to repeated accusations by Security Psych services of a nonexistent mental illness, more than adequately supported by years of internal, psychological
evaluations stating he was mentally sound (Paranoia with delusions is rare and certainly
never occurs overnight, but that does not deter a Security psychologist attack dog, whose
favorite mode of attack employs reference to this malady).
The more a person stood his ground, the more personal it became to Security, which then
became dedicated to the personal destruction of the TI. Under the pretext of the fake
accusation of espionage or leaking classified information, Security would slander the
individual with his coworkers, work friends and managers to isolate him and apply yet more
pressure. Many backed away from supporting the TI in fear for their careers and maybe even
freedom. Certainly this sent a message to the workforce in the TIs area that NSA Security
was at its essence, a rogue, unaccountable and psychotic entity that was to be greatly
feared.
Once NSA Security had decided upon the removal of the TI for failing to be sufficiently
cowed, then false evidence was given to the FBI liaisons assigned to NSA. This would
engender a fraudulent FISA warrant, which loosed FBI surveillance and investigators upon
the person for a few weeks or months, further slandering him to his work and social circles
and thereby putting pressure on him by their constant presence. When the FBI would find no
basis for the accusation, they would drop the case and move on. However, at that point,
Security would send in their own personnel sans warrant, to overtly stalk and harass the TI ,
24/7.

In some instances, Security has even gone into the persons


neighborhood to recruit snitches and augment harassment with
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hostile civilians convinced the TI is an enemy of the state, based


on baseless Security slander.
Intrusions would be made into his home to remove gathered evidence or
move things around as a psychological ploy and his car would be secretly
GPSd to facilitate vehicular stalking and aggressive driving games. There
have even been reports of pet murders by poisoning as an escalation of the
harassment with the inferred threat that perhaps it could be the TIs child or
himself next. The harassment is essentially elevated until the TI either
breaks and assaults a harasser or complains to Security about the insane
and sadistic, not to mention criminal way in which he is being mistreated.
This is what Security planned for and is ready to jump on as their
springboard to terminating his employment.
His security clearance is immediately pulled, he is warehoused in a menial job until adequate paperwork
and a back-story can be fabricated or forged to falsely present a termination due to mental instability or
illness, and the person is fired. Of course there is an appeals process, but it is thoroughly corrupted. No
matter how much evidence supports the victim and how little supports NSA, NSA always wins these
cases where it is clear the person was targeted for dismissal. Of course, this does nothing but embolden
more degenerate or criminal behavior while making it clear that the person reporting evil will be
considered the problem, and that in reality no labor laws or whistle protection laws can actually protect
an NSA employee, because real watch dog entities dont exist within NSA and state and Federal
authorities routinely turn a blind eye to the reported abuses even as they become more criminal and
seditious.
I shake my head at sycophant, disingenuous politicians who claim Edward Snowden could have or
should have gone through proper internal authorities to report the abuses and criminal acts being
committed within NSA. Would that be to the thoroughly corrupted, attack dog-watch dog entities, or the
thoroughly oblivious or compromised politicians responsible for oversight who are in fact, in the NSAs
pocket due to bribery, blackmail or stupidity?
Sher: The NSA seems to suffer from the some of the same maladies as did the recent outing of the
Secret Service. Without becoming too specific, would you give us a general idea as to advancement for
sexual favors that have occurred within the agency? How defeating is that to employees who are simply
working to protect the country while their bosses are indulging in sexual liaisons with lower level
employees?

Karen Stewart: In my career, promotions were always hard to come by, meted out perhaps every
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five years if you were a good or exceptional worker, but male managers discovered that they held the
keys to paradise in regard to attractive or even acceptable women willing to take shortcuts. These
were the women who would make promotions in stunningly rapid succession with little to no
accomplishments - of their own, that is. While others killed themselves with years of grueling shift work
or even multiple dangerous foreign assignments only to find themselves evaluated as a 3.6 on a scale
of 5, when an attractive, morally loose recent college graduate would receive a 4.8 for essentially
alphabetizing a shelf of reference books her first 6 months on the job. This made many, many people
bitter and certainly sent the wrong signal to the hardest workers and the most talented. Though many
stopped being as dedicated to their jobs, others did indeed press ahead and worked tirelessly knowing
their reward was the mission accomplished and not likely appropriate recognition. Capable men
despaired of receiving deserved promotions and women almost feared being promoted for exceptional
work, fearing they would be assumed to be one of the typically incapable promotion bimbos among the
bloated management. Expertise and knowledge became commodities to guard and not share with new
workers, fearing you would not reap the benefits of your own work. This of course created a situation
where expertise and insight must be gained and regained from scratch, losing precious time training up
area or target experts to the detriment of the mission.
It was very discouraging to see immature or degenerate bosses spending their time flirting and chasing
skirts, the very same people who were charged with competently reviewing your work, (keeping
apprised of the big picture so people felt free to specialize their research), and whose responsibility it
was to accurately and honestly represent their people before promotion boards. But the atmosphere of
secrecy, the strict laws about divulging names of NSA employees or anything that occurred there,
emboldened certain men to believe that their wives and families would never know of their
indiscretions, and turned work time into play time for them. And now apparently young males are also
being pursued as sexual toys. One has to wonder what is being missed in the realm of highly perishable
intelligence leads by distracted managerial incompetents.
Sher: As an additional example of NSA intimidation, one of the things youd said may be shared is your
experience with the 3 Amigos. Would you tell us about them?

Karen Stewart:There were three eccentric looking older males who were often seen in the NSA OPS1
cafeteria together, whom we also got to know by word of mouth, as master electricians well-versed in
computer science. They were nicknamed by some in the analyst field as Rasputin, Santa, and Choo
Choo or the engineer, due to their highly unusual appearances and dress. One eye witness being
harassed on yet another NSA Security retaliatory witch hunt, reported seeing one of these men at her
home, on her property, when she discovered indications that her home had been broken into, her cable
box broken into, and her phone hacked, leaving tell-tale clicking sounds at regular intervals whenever
she used her phone. Any phone tap done by warrant is done at the carriers hub under their auspices
and will not click, only illegal hack jobs click.

She noted him not only as a trespasser being

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somewhere he should not have been, but recognized him by his highly unusual appearance from work.
When she attempted to look him up in the NSA data base by career specialty, she found that what
should have been his photo, which should have been a source of pride since he was of the rank to be a
Flag Badger (Manager whose rank is senior enough to garner a photo with the American flag in the
background), was instead a photo of a desert animal called a Meercat indicating that he wanted his
identity hidden from the general NSA population.
Sher: With regards to many who have said that the NSAs collection of meta-data on all forms of
communication between legal citizens of the USA is unconstitutional, also indicated is the fact that not
one terrorist act has been stopped by said collection. It appears good old-fashioned police work is what
still gets the perp. In your opinion, is this accurate?

Karen Stewart: I think it is indeed true that the meta data collection ruse within the USA distracts
from tried and true research and investigation, which the latter method apparently DID INDEED
uncover the 9/11 plot months before it happened, well in time to have prevented it, according to two
separate analysts with whom I have spoken, one just two days after 9/11 as he broke down and
sobbed his heart out, repeating We could have saved them! We could have saved them! But they
wouldnt let us report it!, and the other several years later, who maintained the same story of being
threatened and forbidden to report any warning about 9/11, then being harassed and fired for a nonexistent mentally illness. However, it is a good means to track your political enemies and detractors and
their affiliates within the US - for future reference? It would appear much more for the self-preservation
and expansion of NSA as the ubiquitous Orwellian Big Brother than for the protection of the USA. With
the power the NSA wields, it could easily influence border control issues and immigration issues to
make us not as susceptible to terrorist intrusions and infiltrations, but that would undermine their
power grab and expansion within the US, something never intended at NSAs creation - and for good
reason.
Sher:As a former long time employee of the NSA, what do you believeif anythingcan be done to
correct the problems within the agency?

Karen Stewart:There is no doubt that NSA is now run by those sycophants and sociopaths who are
the least desirable to have in any position of such sensitivity and trust and are purging NSA ranks of
people with integrity. Compromising activity that would rightfully cost you your clearance, is now
viewed as intrinsic perks of the job once you reach a certain pay grade. These lesser leaders have
turned NSA into an American Gestapo Wanna-Be agency. NSA lost its way with non-serious super grade
playboys not mature enough for the responsibility of the job of managing and directing NSA,
compounding the problem by promoting sycophants to protect their backs as well as lightweights with
whom to have sexcapades behind office doors, but in that group also has risen opportunistic
sociopaths and psychopaths attracted to more and more power, any way they can get it, and by
conniving and ruthlessness have blown past incompetent, distracted management to change the very

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nature of the NSA from watchman to the American people to jack booted prison guard.
If the Legislative Branch is possessed of anyone with the least bit of courage and common sense, they
would demand super clearances for those on the Intelligence Oversight Committees so that years or
decades of abusive behaviors, kingdom building, or even crimes can not continually be swept under the
rug by telling these particular politicians, You dont have the need to know, just trust us. Obviously,
they cannot be trusted. An appointment to that Committee would of course have to become much more
exclusive, requiring a thorough vetting as any job with a Top Secret clearance should. But to deal with
the toxic management at NSA now, I would require every Flag Badger and Security manager to account
for himself and what he adds to the mission. If he is pork, retire him or require him to laterally transfer
to another agency. Before that however, I would require that every single Flag Badger and every
Security group manager take a polygraph by non-NSA affiliated or non-NSA sympathetic sources to
account for the millions of dollars wasted on their vicious and illegal war on NSA employees who
dutifully report fraud, waste, abuse as well as sexual predation and treason. Those who are found to be
guilty of such things as falsifying accusations against innocent employees; fabricating false witnesses
and evidence; engaging in illegal acts of breaking and entering; falsifying FISA warrant justifications;
lying to the FBI about a targeted victims criminality; falsifying psychological assessments; subverting
lie detector exams by screaming at the targeted subject during or just before the exam to create false
impressions of guilt; hiding or destroying exonerating evidence supporting their victims claims;
intimidating or roughing up witnesses; coordinating or participating in criminal stalking and harassment
activities, illegal break-ins, illegal wire taps, organizing and paying civilian groups under the table to
augment harassment of targeted employees, and lastly, conspiring to effect or cover up any or all of
these actions. And any NSA employee in that group who pleads the 5th, should be fired and stripped of
his retirement since this type of betrayal rots a country from within. NSA must be recreated, and
returned to the stated task in their founding charter of focusing on foreign enemies overseas.
Sher: W, so much of the information youve provided is truly astounding! Thanks so much for being
with us today and I hope youll be available for another should ongoing events require one.
Click to view 3 Comments
Sher Zieve is an author and political commentator. Zieves op-ed columns are widely carried by multiple
internet journals and sites, and she also writes hard news. Her columns have also appeared in The
Oregon Herald, Dallas Times, Sacramento Sun, in international news publications, and on multiple
university websites. Sher is also a guest on multiple national radio shows.

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1NSA Whistleblower Comes Out of the Shadows Into the Light Karen Stewarty

By Sher Zieve -- Bio and Archives

March 28, 2016

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In February, 2014 I published an interview of an NSA Whistleblower. This is a follow-up to that column.
Due to recent threats to her person and other exigent circumstances, the Whistleblower has decided to
come out of the shadows and into the light. I am honored that she again chose me to write her story.

Her name is Karen Stewart Karen Stewart


BIO
Education

Freshman year - Schiller College, Strasbourg, Fr.


Sophomore - Senior years, graduated from Florida State University (79)
BS in German Language and a minor or co-major equivalent in fine art

Work History: 1982-2010 NSA (National Security Agency


Underwent initial retraining from 1982 - 83, on the job training to become a linguist in a needed foreign
language (chosen to train in depth in Russian since my college major, German was not in demand but I
had also studied Russian and French with good results).
Worked

various

projects

over

the

years,

not

just

USSR/Russia,

but

various

countries

researching/reporting on foreign military status and alliances, weapons development and proliferation,
the Chernobyl disaster and aftermath, the fall of the Iron Curtain and changing relations among newly
liberated countries, economic and diplomatic developments of certain target countries. I researched and
wrote a series of intelligence reports in support of Operation Iraqi Freedom that kept secret Russian
countermeasures sold to Iraq from wreaking havoc on the American invasion. This ultimately is what
got me fired because I questioned why my work was used to promote another employee who had no
experience with but, was credited with my work.

Note...Due to the Top Secret nature of the work, the above summary is slightly vague, by design.

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The Interview
Sher: Karen, thanks for taking the time to speak with me and its so good to have you back and this
time under your name! As a Whistleblower, what finally made you decide to come out from the
shadows?
Karen: I always intended to link my name with my story because it is a story that needs to be told, but
since I have a lawsuit against NSA (technically an appeal of an unlawful, employer action, i.e. my
termination at the 28 point year of my career for trying to request an investigation by the NSA
Inspector General), sitting under a gag order demanded by NSA, on the docket at the Equal
Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) in Baltimore, I could not do so without risking the
adjudication going against me for that reason alone. However, in 2015 NSA Security made the decision
to yet again engage in a massive slander campaign against me in my new location, thus breaking its
own gag order so I feel no compunction to be held to a standard required by the EEOC judge at NSAs
request that NSA itself clearly holds in utter contempt.
Sher: Since we last talked, a lot has happened with you. You have refused to drop your discrimination
lawsuit against the NSA and have shared with me that the agency has stepped up its efforts against
youpersonally.
Youre now being stalked by what appear to be NSA operatives. Is that correct? As you reported to me
they, also, seem to be using electronic emanation technology to both stop and damage you. I believe
former NSA employee and Whistleblower Russel Tice reported on this, also. This is really deep dark
side information. Would you tell the readers what theyre doing to you, [possibly] others and why?
Karen: First of all, the case STEWART V. NSA is a righteous lawsuit, (brought in 2010) meaning it is a
clear case of employer abuse of power and position to an egregious and even premeditated criminal
level meant to circumvent whistleblower protection laws like the No Fear Act. Simply put, I asked the
NSA Inspector General (IG) to investigate why my award-winning intelligence report series supporting
Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003) was used to promote an entirely different woman twice (2004 & 2005)
one who had nothing to do with my reports whatsoever, and was a known incompetent, but had
methodically sexually compromised many of the male managers within the Weapons & Space (W&S)
Directorate. Instead of following correct procedure, the IG and NSA Security decided to cover up the
infraction by attacking me. Threats were made to paint my complaint as paranoid and to fire me for a
non-existent mental illness if I did not drop my effort to get credit for and the promotion for my own
work, given to the wrong woman. These threats quickly took shape as false accusations against me by
the guilty personnel obviously coached by Security, manifested with stalking harassment masquerading
as an investigation by NSA Security goons from 2006-2009. In late 2010, despite all evidence
showing my innocence from ridiculous and impossible charges, I was fired by an NSA Kangaroo court
with a predetermined agenda. My EEOC appeal (lawsuit) had been accepted for adjudication and the
judge had ordered no adverse action until its adjudication but NSA ignored his orders.

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I moved from Columbia, Maryland back to my familys hometown of Tallahassee, Florida in 2011. All
was quiet until February 2015 when I instructed the law firm I had hired to subpoena evidence from the
Maryland Department of Motor Vehicles identifying a burglar (a now retired NSA Executive) who had
broken into my home very shortly after I had tried to make my 2006 Inspector General request for an
investigation, and stolen extra house, car, and mail keys as well as illegally bugging (burst bug) our
home and phone/internet to facilitate further harassment and likely search for blackmail material (no
luck for them there).
After the subpoena, I began noticing Security types in Tallahassee following me and photo-stalking me
by March/April. Their license plates suggested Naval Security Group from Pensacola and NSA Security
personnel from Georgia (Augusta) and Texas (San Antonio). A quick check with the Leon County
Sheriffs Department, specifically Duty Officer deputy Canon, confirmed that NSA also had personnel
land at a private airport and deputies had escorted them the the Phipps property north of Lake Jackson
(near where I now live) for a secret exercise, just before the second round of stalking harassment
began. The sequence of events seems to have been for NSA Security to contact the Naval Security
Group in Pensacola, Florida (Headquartered at Ft. Meade, Maryland along with NSA) to initially stalk
and photograph me under ridiculous false pretenses until NSA could send its own Security personnel to
Tallahassee. Once there, under guise of authority, it appears that NSA enlisted the help of the Florida
Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE) and its civilian group, InfraGard, made up of civilians
recruited from their Ride-Along programs. As usual, NSA personnel fabricated some big lie as to why
the civilians should actively and passively stalk and harass me, and despite quite obvious questions
about why laws and due process were to be completely suspended in my case, the group eagerly
jumped at the opportunity for hundreds to gang up on one person (for Federal money, I may add).
Thus, under NSA tutelage and FDLE auspices, suddenly I was a cast-iron target, meaning multiple
people covered me wherever I was, whatever I did. Cars were even stationed near my home overnight
on rotating shifts, beeping to each other when changing shifts but also for my benefit. NSA also sought
out willing neighbors to augment their snooping and harassment efforts, which could be anything from
hosting an NSA Security goon for accessibility to my property, both home (to bug and monitor shortdistance transmissions) and car (to install and switch out vehicle GPS trackers to facilitate car stalking
and impeding as harassment. ) Those were the active participants, others not assigned to me on a
certain shift were ordered to quickly text in to a special site the big bad threat to report my location
and time I was there. People even snooped in my shopping carts to be able to tattle to someone about
what I was doing, what I was buying. (God help us, she bought bananas!!! Save the children!).
This was annoying enough but I tried to ignore it because I thought NSA once again was going for the
usual See, shes paranoid, reporting harassment every day now just dismiss her lawsuit! But I did
report acts of harassment that caused physical damage such as hit and run, purposely sideswiping my
car, and botching the placement/removal of a GPS tracker under my rear spoiler that destroy my
spoiler. (They feared my mechanic would find their tracker so they botched its removal the night before

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my appointment). I even made fun of my stalkers when I could, using my hobby art shop on a popular
internet site to create bumper magnets making fun of them. After all, they were mostly nave,
unsophisticated boobs who desperately imagined that they were little James Bonds and that the
greatest existential threat to their country was a woman waiting for her lawsuit to be decided, living in
Tallahassee, walking her dogs, visiting friends.

In late November 2015, however, NSA apparently decided that I was not sufficiently
being intimidated by their civilian confederacy of dunces to back off my lawsuit to
recover my stolen salary and stolen retirement at the appropriate pay level. In 2009
I had researched gang-stalking and discovered it was a real and growing
phenomenon, but when electrical harassment was mentioned, I could not really
grasp the concept and wondered about its existence. But I was to find out first hand
in November 2015 that it does exist and is a horrific crime against humanity.

NSA and its operatives started using small, mobile devices called Directed Energy
Weapons (DEWs) against me and my family in the night. These mobile weapons
emit multiple types of electrical emanations from ultrasonic, to microwaves
modulated to radio frequencies, to other kinds of wave variations I cant say I
understand yet. Now, with the help of certain mercenary and morally depraved
neighbors, the effort is almost 24/7 now with the intention being torture and slowkill. These types of weapons over a lengthy time, cause cancer, autoimmune
disease, heart attacks, seizures, strokes, etc. It is the perfect stealth murder
weapon for a corrupt government. At this point, when we leave the house, a
criminal base of stalkers has been enlisted by NSA to follow us and aim the DEWs at
us wherever feasible to increase exposure in order to speed up death, with the help
of the InfraGard dimwits still texting in my location like good little sheeple.
The Leon County Sheriffs Department as well as the Tallahassee Police Department are dragging their
feet, making excuses, denying any such thing exists, or insulting me when I try to enlist their help to
come up with a strategy to combat this new crime before I or one of my family is dead. They cant
quite grasp the fact that this is domestic terrorism and nothing protects the police or any official from
this new weapon held and wielded by criminals. Yet, plenty of recruits in their ranks have experience
using the mobile DEWs in Iraq. It is very interesting to me that the Naval Security Group headquartered
at Ft. Meade with NSA, is also called the Silent Warriors because they specialize in the use of Directed
Energy Weapons. Im sure the Naval Security Group base in Pensacola has many on hand and may
have even gotten a request from NSA to borrow a few for their secret exercise in Tallahassee.
Clearly, NSA is of the opinion that you do not have Constitutional Rights unless they say you do. If they

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use this to get rid of an inconvenient lawsuit such as mine instead of simply settling for a tenth of the
cost of harassment, then they must feel confident they can murder anyone, anywhere, for any reason
and get away with itincluding any leader or politician.
Sher: Why in the world do you think the NSA simply didnt settle the suit? With all of the
documentation you have, it seems that they are guilty of the discrimination and could have spent far
less of the taxpayers money to simply pay you off and make it go away. They would, also, have
avoided this coming out into the open. Are they that arrogant and Narcissistic?
Karen: This has truly NEVER made any sense to me or any of my friends, even those who worked at
NSA. NSA could have investigated, claimed a mistake had been made and retroactively promoted me
without even addressing the unethical behavior of W&S personnel. Instead, the IG refused to
investigate, illegally of course, but I could not have made him do his job. Plus, the guilty were
instructed to blame me for what turned out to be the first leak by ex-NSA executive Thomas Drake,
despite the fact that I had no access to, knowledge of or training in the type of material he leaked
(computer technology) and he was identified as the source of that leak six months before I was fired.
The polygraph section of Security actively tried to sabotage my polygraph exams in response to the
false counter-accusation by inappropriately screaming and threatening me, making it impossible to pass
a polygraph, which ruined my first polygraph in this regard though I passed the next two of the three
given in reaction to the false accusation.
The EEOC is capped at $300,000 actual damages, no punitive allowed. My intention was to get the lost
difference in my wages as a GS-12 when I should have been a GS-14, and to get the appropriate level
of retirement. Yet, clearly, NSA has spent millions organizing and paying civilians (and greasing the
palms of crooked law enforcement) to harass, bully, intimidate,and quite obviously viciously slander
me.
Do they engage in such psychopathic behavior because they can? Because they simply have no real
oversight? The operational head of NSA Security is indeed rumored far and wide to be an actual
psychopath who is obsessed with paintings of Dantes Inferno.
A coworker who worked in NSA Human Resources says she remembered when the resumes of
inappropriate people (criminals, perverts, mentally unstable) were automatically thrown away but
suddenly when General Hayden, a former NSA Director, promoted this particular man, the resumes of
thieves, moral degenerates, etc., were then coveted by Security. She said that she was so upset that
she had to find a different job. I did read an opinion on the Anti-polygraph site that NSA Security
leadership, and hence all of Security in essence, could be said to suffer from Dark Triad personality
disorder, which is a dangerous combination of such things as (malignant) narcissism, sociopathy, etc.
Their egos are such that they are obsessed with winning at all costseven fighting to keep a known
false accusation from being proven false by their victim, because they exist in their own projected
narrative. They exist in their own lies and cannot stand being exposed. This means they follow their
own agendas. What is good for NSA Security leadership, even at the cost of NSA or the USA. Their

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allegiances are to themselves. This has made me wonder, of late, if the woman who Security protected
instead of reprimanding or firing for sexually compromising W&S management was not a Security plant,
meant to do just that. And, in so doing, was NSA Security procuring a means to blackmail these
managers for themselves or another entity, perhaps foreign?
Sher: You have multiple photos and even drawings youve made of you stalkers. Youve also indicated
to me that the NSA has been in touch with your local law enforcement. Said law enforcement is siding
with the NSA against youa private citizen. What do your attorneys have to say about these?
Karen: At the beginning of my search for a law firm to take my case, Melville Johnson PC informed me
that I had potentially two cases, in 2009, an employment law case and a criminal case. I could only
afford to pursue the employment case since I was facing illegal termination on false pretenses within a
few months. While my lawyers have recorded the information about the new assault campaign by NSA
in Florida, thus far their pleas with the EEOC for some kind of response because their client is now in
physical danger have been completely ignored.
What has been going on in Florida is entirely criminal and could be a separate lawsuit, to even include
law enforcement in regard to their depraved negligenceif not complicity. But, at the moment, I am
concerned with surviving the relentless Directed Energy Weapons assaults. If I do not, then my family
will have to consider a wrongful death lawsuit against NSA, FBI (that refuse to get involved because
NSA is involved), and the FDLE, the TPD and Leon County Sheriffs Department as well as certain
complicit neighbors accepting a new riding mower or new carpeting in exchange for helping NSA
murder an inconvenient person who actually thought she had any Constitutional, human, or Civil
Rights.
Sher: With regards to your lawsuit, what are your current plans?
Karen: Good question. Reporting and recording the new barrage of assaults has whittled deeply into
my retainer. This was hard enough to maintain after spending about $110,000, thus far, and often
countering ridiculous and frivolous legal shenanigans by NSA to waste my money. With an outrageously
unresponsive EEOC, which may indeed be a complete and obscene sham for show, one wonders why
continue with the pretense that we exist as a nation of laws? Clearly, we do not.
The government has no desire for a level playing field to impede its quest for complete tyranny. We are
now a nation of wolves and sheeple. Im sure that after getting wind of this article, NSA will come to
the EEOC with big crocodile tears claiming they need to win by default because I broke the gag order
after they themselves spent millions, bald-faced lying to thousands of civilians, law enforcement and
(apparently) the FBI about me, invoking National Security Letters to swear them to secrecy and to hide
the true nature of their faux secret exercise in Tallahasseei.e., enticing a foolish community to stalk,
harass and commit murder for Big Brother.
But, God forbid the victim would speak out!
It truly sickens me that I spent my career trying to protect and serve my fellow Americans when not
only my government but these unworthy mercenary, sociopaths have stabbed me in the back. Some of

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the stalkers have even been Iraqi War veteranssome of whom might not have returned alive without
my reports.
I cant think a lot about the lawsuit with each nocturnal assault leaving me wondering if I or one of my
family will not wake up tomorrow. Im sentenced to death for being a patriot. What a country. I read
Psalm 91 & 94 nightly, praying God will want to erase this growing evil from our country. But, I also
remember that Ruth Graham said a while ago, if God doesnt judge America, Hell have to apologize to
Sodom and Gomorrah.
Americans are just not the people they and we used to be and, therefore, our leaders are either
apathetic cowards who tolerate evil or potentially monsters like NSA Securitywho show that they can
be and are not responsible to anyone but themselves.
Is NSA Security even able to be reined in anymore? Or would any potential leader be found dead of a
microwave induced heart attack if he tried to? Someone ought to care but I may not be around long
enough to see it.
Sher: Thanks you so much for all youve done and I sincerely hope and pray youre wrong, Karen. Its
individuals like you who founded the United States of America on Godly principles and an unwavering
sense of ethics.
*Karen may be contacted for interviews at kams56@ME.com

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StanJ. Caterbone
ADVANCED MEDIA GROUP
Freedom From Covert Harassment &
Surveillance,
Registered in Pennsylvania
1250Fremont Street
Lancaster, PA 17603
www.amgglobalentetainmentgroup.com
stancaterbone@gmail.com
717-669-2163

Greg Szymanskis Interview


With Julianne McKinney
Microwave Harassment and Mind Control
Transcribed for Advanced Media Group,
05/28/16

This interview contains information from Julianne McKinneys book Microwave Harassment and
Mind Control Experimentation, 1992, as well as current conditions world-wide. Years of
interviews turned Gregg Szymanski from skeptic to believer in the secret world of electronic
harassment, as harassment against Julianne McKinney has turned potentially lethal. They are
taking a stand to help TIs, Targeted Individuals, many civilians, escape this cruel harassment.
Julianne: Okay. I have seen evidence of a closed circuit TV and it seems to be some form of major
source of entertainment and perhaps instruction for the individuals participating in this harassment. I
dont know who runs it. I have seen aspects of that on a large screen TV across the street on which I
saw surveillance films of a TI being harassed, obviously, in an office environment. Gang stalked. Shows
brain scans and is otherwise a very sophisticated, sleek, communications operation. Why would it be
used? As I said either for entertainment, for creating a sense of unity, or for identifying persons, TIs,
who are to be harassed on the street. I mean, obviously you cant harass someone if you dont know
what that person looks like. So its a means of communicating to the perpetrators, perps, what the TI
looks like.

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TRANSCRIPT OF GREG SZYMANSKIS INTERVIEW WITH JULIANNE MCKINNEY


ON MICROWAVE HARASSMENT AND MIND CONTROL
Published May 28, 2016
Greg Szymanski:

(Also) I have a guest whos never given a radio interview before. Her name is

Julianne McKinney. For those of you who dont know who she is, she is an expert in electronic
harassment and surveillanceformer military background. And those of you who have followed this
story on my show, many may know who she is and the importance she has in this field.
Were just going to lay some very solid credibility to what weve been talking about. So this interviews
quite important and I want you to remember that, as we go along, shes a very, very well-read person.
Were gonna get to that in a minute. The problem on the use of electronic weaponry on a person was
when I was working in a law office. The law office I was working for severaloh a number of years ago,
the law office I worked for prided in taking cases that were difficult. And I listened to a person tell me
about the facts regarding the use of electronic weaponry. And I had a discussion with somebody else at
the law firm and we came to this conclusion causation causation causation Greg, remember that
element. Its going to be awfully difficult to link whats happening to the person. The injuries they were
alleging, to actually the person, or the defendants, that were doing it.
So it was a case, Ill be very honest with you, that I was very skeptical over. But, as a journalist, I
started to interview a number of people, and I would like to say that this issue, after a number of years,
has come up to one of the top of my list as a problem in this country.
I talked to hundreds of people all around the country that are experiencing things that are just
unbelievable. And from a standpoint of the law, you want to get justice for these people. You hate to
see their lives destroyed, and you hate to see what happens, to a person thats been harassed. But the
biggest problem is its very difficult to pinpoint whats going on.
I have a guest today who is an expert in this field. You, the public, may not know who she is. But those
of you who have been targeted and listen to my show know very well. Shes never been interviewed
before and I feel honored that shes here. Her name is Julianne McKinney. Shes had an extensive
career in the US Army as an Area Intelligence Case Officer till 1990.
Upon her return to civilian life Julianne became a member of the Association of National Security
Alumni. That is an organization of former intelligence officers dedicated to exposing excesses by the US
Intelligence Services. Julianne became the director of the Electronic Surveillance Project under their
auspices

as

such

she

authored

the

publication

Microwave

Harassment

and

Mind

Control

Experimentation in 1991. She kept that electronic surveillance project going for four years, funding it
with her own personal funds, obtained by her military benefits and pay.

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Julianne did not copy write her work and it is out in the public domain for the public good. Microwave
Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation, the public has taken her hard copy publication and
uploaded it to several thousand domain sites over the past 15 years. It is respected as one of the most
important publications on this subject. And with that, Id like to say hello, Ms. McKinney, how are you
today?
Julianne McKinney: Please dont call me Ms. McKinney (laugh).
Greg: Okay, can I say Julianne?
Julianne: Yes, Julianne.
Greg: Now, youre an expert in surveillance and electronic harassment. The first question I have is
that, in your observation, is there a wider scale of surveillance of average people, people with no threat
to national security, in your estimation?
Julianne: I would say that most of us targeted are not, and never have been, a threat. I think that
what happened initially, when these operations began probably 30 years, ago people were singled out,
perhaps, because of some affiliation, either direct or indirect, with the United States government, and
invited attention. But they were not singled out as being a threat; they were singled out as being
lucrative targets of experimentation.
In the past 15 years, since shutting down the Electronic Surveillance Project, primarily to seek
employment, which I did seek, and did obtain, I had occasion to observe many, many, many instances
of individuals in the corporate environment being singled out and targeted simply because they were
convenient targets of opportunity. And, I have to comment on something I heard you say
Greg: Okay
Julianne:

Early on you referred to the difficulty of establishing causation in order to pursue these

claims.
Greg: That, I might add, that was made is a legal sense, based on the fact that we were nave people,
not really understand I have to be honest with youI had not understood the problem back then,
and felt it would be a difficult problem, based on the fact of how the crime was committed and knowing
how to pin that crime on someone. Go ahead.
Julianne: I understand the legal implications, certainly. There is enough literature, on the internet and
elsewhere, that establishes the existence of these weapon systems. To pinpoint, for purposes of
prosecution, to pinpoint their existence would be difficult and the position I take is that rather than
pinpoint for prosecution purposes, easy enough to single them out by electronic means to destroy
them. But I guess thats taking the matter a little far left field.
I think, frankly, we still face, until congress establishes laws that forbid the use of these technologies
for involuntary experimental purposes, that were going to get absolutely nowhere in attempting to
prosecute.
Greg:

Okay, listen, I need to take a break Julianne. And well be back in three minutes on the

Investigative Journal.

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Julianne: Okay.
Greg:

Okay, back for the second half hour. My guest is Julianne McKinney. Shes an expert on

surveillance and electronic harassment. And Julianne, I gave you an introduction at the beginning of the
show.
Julianne: Yes
Greg:

A brief introduction. But I think our listeners would like to know your background and why

youre qualified to make these statements. I think its important.


Julianne: Okay.
Greg: If you could do that for us.
Julianne: Well, I would take exception to the term expert in these weapons systems.
Greg: Okay.
Julianne:

I certainly have had experience with them, having, for approximately the past 40 years,

been on the receiving end of this type of harassment. Expertise in surveillance comes with my
employment in the intelligence field. I understand what constitutes surveillance and am capable of
immediately spotting the surveillance and I can see, as in the case of gang stalking, a subject that you
have addressed on prior occasions. I can see those who I label as covert want-to-bes fumbling through
what they think are covert activities and Id find it really rather amusing if it werent so perverted in the
ultimate objective.
Im not certain what more I can add. I do have experience with these weapon systems. Ive had
sufficient opportunity over these past many years to observe the progressive threat of these
harassment operations. And Im talking specifically about electronic weapon systems.
Greg: Well, youve been a voice - I mean a strong voice - for warning people of these systems for at
least the past 10 years regarding the installation of specialized electronic equipment and utilities. What
are these electronics and what are their capabilities?
Julianne:

Their capabilities, generally, are to inflict pain in a highly focused fashion, and to alter

mental states. Certainly, when you have a frequency aimed at your brain, your mental functions tend to
alter. In amplified form, theyre sufficient, the frequencies are. They have the capacity to kill. Though
thats one reason the department of defense refers to them as less than lethal rather than nonlethal weapons. As a matter of fact, the Department of Defense has gone so far to eliminate them, to
remove them from the category of even less than lethal weapons to bury them in the category of
electronic weapons trying to make them a little bit blacker.
Greg:

Now is this protocol of surveillance and harassment seemingly patterned after a government

protocol now applied to the general civilian population?


Julianne:

Its difficult to pinpoint everything on the US government exclusively because these are

global operations.
Greg: Okay.
Julianne:

The pattern the protocols, are virtually identical on a global scale so someone is

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overseeing the entire activity. The government obviously is complicent because otherwise these
operations would not be allowed to exist. Why? Its hard to say. Whether its for testing electronic
weapon systems for future use under combat conditions or whether ultimately there's a holocaust. (nointelligible) Its hard to say.
Greg:

Well, you know what I find interesting.how people who arent aware of this problem cant

believe its happening to begin with. And I try to mentionI have run stories about the Duplessis
Orphans. Its a program thats been verified, that the government actually used money in Canada and
the United States to do medical testing on children, on adults. Ive talked to people on the POW issue,
one Dr. Joe Douglas, who has documented how, that our government has done allowed foreign
governments to do illegal experimentation on POWs. So why would people think that they wouldnt
allow it on just average citizens? Just in your mind. Do you have an answer for people?
Julianne: Why wouldnt they allow it?
Greg: Yeah, my thing is that they do it, theyre doing it. But some people that deny it cant believe
that our government would do something like this.
Julianne: I find, even among the community of, I hate using slang terms, but the term TI is common,
referring to targeted individuals. Those are people who know they are on the receiving end of electronic
weapon systems. And even amongst TIs, there is a perception in certain areas that our government
wouldnt do this; a case of not recognizing reality. First of all if this were not being done by our
government, congress would step in because of the hundreds of complaints they have received,
thousands of complaints, no doubt, over the past 10-15 years, from citizens who recognize whats going
on. Congress, back in the early 90s, late 80s, took the position that anyone complaining about these
systems were imagining things because they simply didnt exist. In two years, by 1992, they were off
the drawing boards, and in fact, being fielded and conveyed to law enforcement agencies.
Congress recognizes that these weapon systems exist and funds them, and knows, as a result of
appropriate briefings, what the bio-effects can be. Yet they have passed no legislation prohibiting their
use under unconstrained experimental circumstances.
Thats number 1. Number 2, given the nature, given the nature, given that the systems draw on
existing power grids, it would be necessary for the FCC at a minimum, and the Department of Energy,
as a minimum, give some oversight and control over what is going on. Though obviously, those with
Congress, the FDA and the Department of Energy, the FCC and the Department of Energy are
knowledgeable and yet unwilling to do anything about it. So, there is complicity, but the question is,
whos knitting, and submitting, the US government, allowing these operations to take place?
Greg: Now from your experience, how intense is this surveillance of targeted individuals? And tell us
about the ways that the targeted that this is accomplished.
Julianne: From what I have observed, first of all I should explain that the standard that I address this
in Microwave Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation, it was a pattern that was unfolding as I
was dealing with other targeted individuals whothat contacted me. It was a pattern of harassment

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which indicated that there had been some surveillance going on, some monitoring of their private lives.
There had been entry into their houses. There was systematic harassment. And then, ultimately, as part
of a softening up process, and then ultimately, electronic harassment, which followed; which would
include the inducement of auditory input, which is now being referred to as Z2K.
In answer to your question (laugh) Im not certain if I I think Im probably missing the point there,
but in order to target someone, it requires that that person be put under surveillance, so that their
personality traits, their capacity to inter- relate with people, their capacity for corruption or noncorruption, that seems to be a critical point. And even their religion factors into it.
Following a period of harassments, they are singled out for preliminary stages of harassment which
includes gang stalking, entry of their private homes or apartments, followed by gradually intensified
and ultimately extremely intensified electronic harassment. This is the pattern that has unfolder over
and over and over.
Greg:

And so, when you, I guess what Im getting atthats a very good answer. Youre seeing a

pattern amongst these individuals. I guessyeahis there any pattern about how they choose them?
Julianne: I cant speak for men. But it appears that quite a few of the women who have been singled
out appear to be somewhat, too independent; perhaps too intelligent. Tend to live alone or tend to
pursue professional careers. Theres a heavy predominance of those types of women in the TI
community, the community of targeted individuals. Men are in a smaller proportion and seem to be
those who have a propensity to fly off the handle. Have a sense of self-esteem and pride that seems to
invite targeting. And I did mention a curious predominance of a certain lack of religion amongst TIs, as
opposed to a certain predominance of a particular religion amongst those who are participating in these
operations.
Greg: Now you mentioned this was a global problem. Have you communicated with people from across
the Atlantic regarding whats going on in other countries? Is it similar to here?
Julianne:

Its virtually identical, virtually identical. When I was running the electronic surveillance

project I was in extensive correspondence with people overseas and patterns were the same. The
nature of the gang stalking and harassment were the same.
Greg: Now, when youre talking about specific numbers I know youreyouve been following this for
years and years and years. Is there any way that you can give our listeners a kind of an idea of how
wide spread this problem is in terms numbers in our country and compared to maybe overseas?
Julianne: I would say that the person who has realized what is going on is just a drop in a bucket. The
persons whom I have seen being targeted are completely unaware of whats happening. So those who
are complaining of this are, as I said, the tip of the iceberg. I would say this is very, very, widespread.
But I cannot under the circumstances come up with any figures. Many, many, many thousands, no
doubt, are involved. But I would say that the bulk of them are running to their doctors and taking
totally unnecessary prescription drugs to cure ailments that dont exist.
Gregg: I guess that you have to ask this question even though its very difficult to answer. And you

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mentioned, you said it earlier. But I really have to ask it because its on my mind and I know its always
in the back of everyones mind when they think of this problem. Why?? What is the major reason, I
mean, outside of just pure experimentation Im interested; for example, lets say that they have
targeted 100 people in Oklahoma. What do they, first of all, why are they doing it? Is it for, basically, a
blanket statement controlling the population? Orand, what do they do with this information once they
get it?
Julianne: I dont think they do anything with the information once they get it, other than to establish
a harassment protocol which will follow that targeted individual for the rest of his or her life. Why are
they doing it? I see a number of reasons. First, I dont know if youve done any research on the
phenomenon of capturing a percentage of the population in order to install a dictatorship. There is
always a percentage of the population, roughly 20% or so, that will buckle and throw whatever
constitutions might exist into the toilet and eagerly join the efforts at destroying the remainder of the
population.
Part of the problem or part of the objective they are seeking obviously is testing the latest and greatest
in electronic weaponry and other forms of technologies. A part of it is to control and choreograph those
who are involved in these harassment operations on the dispensing end. And it would appear that those
being targeted are simply objects who I see as ultimately being disposable. In other words, I think that
once full control is established over a major percentage of the population, and enough of the population
is silenced and unwilling to stick their necks out, that we inevitably would be heading toward a
holocaust.
Greg: The question, if I was, for example, lets say we have a person, who suspects, and lets just for
hypothetical purposes, say this person is being targeted, okay? Now, tell our listeners, because Ive
always wondered this myself, okay. Im sitting in my house and I see around me theres telephone
poles, there may be a tower in the distance that I dont see that handles the cell phones. Theres of
course a grid of electric going on around me. Ive talked to people and I try to say, how does this get
into your house? And I wanted to get your opinion, if a person is targeted, how basically are they
beginning to intrude their premises, and violate their constitutional rights, not only their rights ofnot
only trespassing on their property? Go ahead. How would that happen?
Julianne: Now, are you talking about, how would the frequencies impact upon them and how would
they first become aware of it? Or how would they first become aware of the fact that their privacy has
been violated?
Greg: Well no, I guess I didnt explain the question right. I wanted to know how they physically, are
doing it? I mean are they using a cell tower? Are they using a truck thats in the distance? How is this
being transmitted into the home to target the person and to use this weaponry on them, from your
experience?
Julianne: Well, first of all, in order to target a person you have to be able to see that person. And
while they may not be able to, they may, on entering the house, plant miniature cameras, miniature

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microphones, as a means of, for their monitoring a person. But that is not necessarily the means by
which they hone in on a person. There are plenty of technologies that allow for the imaging of a person
that might be sitting in a chair, as you mentioned you might be.
Using infrared imagery techniques, for example, they can capture your image by monitoring the
concentration of heat emanating from your body using certain acoustical frequencies, they can detect
mass. And using sophisticated computer software, they can convert those images to likenesses on
computers, which conceivably could be used in a software program that could be connected to an
electronic weapon system. And in that context I should point out that, while devices draw on the
existing power grid, and while theyyes indeed, they do involve microwave towers
Sounds like youve got a commercial coming on
Greg:

Yes we do, and thank you for making my job easier. Well be back in 3 minutes on the

Investigative Journal.
First, Ive put this in the top 3 of my stories that I believe are important, that the American people need
to deal with, because as Ms. McKinney, who is a, I consider her an expert. She would only say shes an
authority. But let me tell you, Julianne, you are an expert in this. The reasons could be, like she said at
thebefore we went into the break, and a total testing of our population to see, basically, perhaps
maybe there is a holocaust in the future or a dictatorship in the future. And they want to see how
people react to it. That may be a simplistic way to look at it. Not a simplistic way that Julianne looked at
it but my way of explaining it.
But lets get back to some of the things here, the last few minutes that are important. What can you tell
us, Julianne, about the microwave energy on citizens in terms of the existence of such a program and
the nuts and bolts of what they do?
Julianne:

Microwave energy is only one aspect of the entire electromagnetic frequency spectrum.

Microwaves can be lethal depending upon how theyre used. Obviously in order to achieve appropriate
effects on people, they have to be pulsed, because otherwise the individual would be cooked from the
inside out. The objective of using microwaves as opposed to other electromagnetic frequencies would
be to inflict extremes of pain to cause thermal heating. Thats a common complaint which leaves a hot
spot on the scull. Again, primarily, just to inflict extremes of pain. I was just wondering, we kind of
skipped over or didnt quite complete a preceding topic.
Greg: Oh, go ahead, go ahead. Youve got free reign.
Julianne:

You were talking about the use of the electrical grid throughout the country, the use of

microwave towers, the use of devices affixed to poles that are connected to power lines. But what
wasnt addressed, what you havent mentioned, is also that these weapon systems are used by
neighbors surrounding persons who have been singled out as targets of opportunity.
Greg: Are they solicited to do this or what?
Julianne: Thats something that Ive been pondering for some time. Again, what Ive noticed is, there
seems to be a predominant, particular religion that makes it particularly easy for them to cooperate.

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Greg: Well listen, lets talk about that after the break, a short break, and then Ive got something to,
some business I have to take care of for 3 4 minutes. Then well get back for our 2 nd hour with
Julianne McKinney. Well take some calls. Back in 2 minutes on the Investigative Journal.
(In this section there seemed to be jumping around, like maybe the video was edited or there was
some problem with the recording.)
by some of the Tis and thats Targeted Individuals.
That song rose to number one without any publicity on the internet. And that song called TI, well play
that again Dr. McKinney. I think it hits the nail on the head. I mean theres a lot of people out there
suffering. And I know youre one person, an authority in this field. And for my guests who are just
picking us up this hour, Dror excuse me, Julianne McKinney is a very highly regarded person in the
field of electronic weaponry, and surveillance in studying this issue. Shes a former area Intelligence
Case Officer until 1990 in the Army. And her credentials can be found, will be found, you can go to
RBNLive.com and go to my archives in the Investigative Journal and read about that. Shes well
qualified. Shes still with us this hour. And Dror excuse me, I keep calling you Dr. and you should be.
Julianne: (Laugh) Im not a Dr., thank you. Dr. Americus.
Greg: Dr. Americus. You know, thats funny. I have a doctorate in law. And nobody ever calls me that
and I hate being called that, a doctor. But Im interviewed on a Tehran TV station once every blue
moon, couple months, and they refer to me as Dr. Szymanski. And its nice to hear once in a while. Ill
be honest with you. Every two months is good enough. Otherwise they just call me the jerk on the
radio, which is better.
But, lets go from here. Youre adding such credibility to this story, adding credibility in my mind as I
speak. Because, Ive talked to hundreds of these people and was a doubting Thomas in the beginning. I
must mention that. I did not think it existed, and that was years ago. I thought people were either
insane, or crazy, or trying to get attention. But you know something? I will admit I was totally wrong
with that initialI guessthe look at the situation and have come around to fully believe in most of the
people I talk to and really sympathize with their suffering as I see their lives being ripped apart.
Are there any things you can dowere going to get into a few more things here as far as the technical
aspects of this but what can targeted individuals do to get some peace in their life? I mean thats one
thing theyre looking for. Is there anything they can do?
Julianne: (prolonged silence)
Greg: Difficult question there.
Julianne: Its very difficult to advise targeted individuals how to acquire peace. These frequencies can
be blocked or deflected. All of these frequencies I have found, some may contest this, but I have found
can beare vulnerable, and are subject to deflection. And the pain can be immediately (word unclear),
if not halted all together. Finding peace by writing to members of congress or to state legislators might
not be a better alternative because you will be treated as something worthy of the circular basket. They
just wont intervene. Writing to the various agencies and calling a meeting with them serves no useful

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purpose either because they will say there are no laws prohibiting these types of activities. They cant,
say for example, the FBIand I was given this statement on a number of occasions.there are no laws
prohibiting experimentation with these weapon systems. Youre talking to the wrong people.
So my advice would be to do what you can to secure your premises, because so long as your house is
or apartment is being entered, you are susceptible to, in addition to being targeted by electronic
weapons, there is a potential for having drugs put in your food. And Im not exaggerating there.
Greg: I had a few targeted individuals I talked to send me some questions that Id like to ask you.
Julianne: Certainly.
Greg: And the one was Are targeted individuals also broadcast around the country via closed circuit
TV? And, What purpose does this serve? Im fully in the dark on this question, but, go ahead.
Julianne: Okay. I have seen evidence of a closed circuit TV and it seems to be some form of
major source of entertainment and perhaps instruction for the individuals participating in
this harassment. I dont know who runs it. I have seen aspects of that on a large screen TV
across the street on which I saw surveillance films of a TI being harassed, obviously, in an
office environment. Gang stalked. Shows brain scans and is otherwise a very sophisticated,
sleek,

communications

operation.

Why

would

it

be

used?

As

said

either

for

entertainment, for creating a sense of unity, or for identifying persons, TIs, who are to be
harassed on the street. I mean, obviously you cant harass someone if you dont know what
that person looks like. So its a means of communicating to the perpetrators, perps, what the
TI looks like.
Greg: Okay, now, before I get to some more, I want to put out that call for people to call. I got a
couple emails. A lot of times Tis dont want to go public. And theyve sent me some emails. I want to
get to one in a minute. But one question I have for you is, how can people gather evidence to support
their beliefs that this is happening to them? Many people will say, well its only a lack of sleep. I mean,
you have a sleep disorder. Maybe theres a problem with your joints, I dont know. It could be anything
that the answers are when you suspect youre being targeted. What kind of evidence do you tell people
to gather to support their beliefs that this is actually happening to them.
Julianne:

Well, when youre gathering evidence, obviously you have an objective in mind and that

generally is legal. What you want to do with that evidence. Theres really nothing you can do with it. So
in the absence of that, the main thing is to try to protect yourself and to alleviate the pain that youre
experiencing. Collecting the evidence, if you were to go to, frankly, Id strongly recommend that you
keep your faculties together and avoid going to see psychiatrists and psychologists, because the pattern
that is evolving is that they are highly complicit of these operations.
And if you go to a medical doctor, you do not talk about it because medical doctors, many, are also
involved. What you do when you see a doctor is that you define your symptoms and get a very clear
statement that, well, we cant figure this out. Well, thats a clear indication that it is not indigenous,
its not part of your system. Its not coming from within you, so obviously something is happening from

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outside. If they prescribe drugs and yet cant find the ecology, the basis for your disease, dont take
those drugs.
Greg:

Now earlier we were talking about the fact that they may, whoevers doing this, youve

delineated, youve led a good course into whatyoure tracking these people. But what I was getting at,
we never got to the point where ifyou mentioned something about a religious group that may be
targeted. What did you mean by that?
Julianne: The way I dont.well let me put it this way. Im not out to start a religious war. I have
found over the years that the persons involved, both in gang stalking.Ive made it a point to get to
know these people. Ive had to necessarily. Im not the type to
Greg: Youre talking about the perpetrators or the targets?
Julianne: The perpetrators.
Greg: Okay
Julianne: As well as theIve been drawing distinctions. And what Ive found is that the perpetrators
appear to belong predominantly to one particular religion; whereas the targeted individuals do not
belong predominantly to that particular religion.
Greg: And what is the particular religion of the perpetrators?
Julianne:

Right. So, at this stage, again, Im not particularly enthused about the idea of starting a

religious war. And I have challenged other TIs to get out there and become acquainted with, and get to
know, the people who are harassing them, to draw those distinctions themselves, because Im not
going to be making brash claims. This is something Ive observed over the past 10 years.
Greg: Thats fair enough. And maybe, perhaps, I could talk to you about it just for my own knowledge
off the air.
Julianne: That would be fine.
Greg: And I will keep your name out of it at that point and let people know what the targeted group
may be and what the other group may be.
Julianne: There is a religious influence but thats not to say these people arent just being used as
puppets by some broader interest.
Greg: Very good point. Can you stick with us one more segment of 5 minutes?
Julianne: Okay.
Greg: Were interviewing Julianne McKinney, our last segment. Juliannes an authority in the use of
surveillance and electronic weaponry. And this is an email question, kind of a technical one from a TI.
Let me read this to you. Perhaps you can answer it. Are the protocols for each individual modified based
to custom tailor it for the specific targeted individual? And if so, how does this process work?
Julianne: Yes indeed they are modified. There is a basic protocol that the perpetrators begin with. But
the TI contributes to the modification. A good example of that would be, if someone. Im trying to
think of a good example. If the TI feels the need to cooperate, even in the most subtle fashion, with the
persons who are harassing him or her, he or she will modify his behavior, in pathlobean condition, which

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alters the protocol. Theyre constantly, targets are constantly monitored, and if they respond
emotionally to a particular trigger, that will be built into the protocol. If the target displays a certain
sense of guilt or embarrassment about a subject, that will be built into the protocol. Its an ongoing
process. And one thing I want to emphasize is no TI should look for a reason as to why this is going on.
Its a serious, serious mistake. I know I did that myself when they started on me and over the years I
came up with probably 6 different excuses.
Greg: Is it still going on with you?
Julianne: Oh yes. Not to the degree that it was before but certainly in very lethal form.
Greg: Now, how has this hampered your life?
Julianne: Its come close to being lethal on a number of occasions. I deal, I dealt with gang stalking
head on and I essentially put that to rest. I deal with.Ive developed a means for communicating with
perps directly and made them feel like the trailer trash that they are. So gang stalking is not one of
their favorite activities in my case. So the primary activity now is to see what I can survive in the way
of an induced brain aneurism or stroke or a heart attack.
Greg: I just had a caller who doesnt want to get on the air but wants to know, does moving help;
moving your location?
Julianne: Running, if youre talking about moving to a completely new location, no. This country is
wired to the hilt for immediate transfer. Your protocol follows you wherever you go so its a waste of
time. Moving about physically in place will not change anything. Other than, if you make a 180 degree
turn you will notice the targeting will suddenly stop because the weapon systems are programmed to
focus on a particular area of your anatomy. So if you turn, the targeting will suddenly end. If you turn
back itll hit you again.
Greg: Interesting. Now, going full circle in the last 2 minutes here, in 1991 you published Microwave
Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation. This has been passed around the internet and over
thousands of domain sites over the past 15 years. Can you tell us how someone can get ahold of this
publication to be informed?
Julianne: Its not copy-writed. All they need to do is plug in my last name, McKinney, and type in the
title Microwave Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation and innumerable sites will appear and
just read it from there. It will give you a good insight into what the pattern is when harassment begins.
Greg:

Now, let me just spell your name for people that are going to do that. Thats MCKINNEY

McKinney. And then its Microwave Harassment and Mind Control Experimentation for an authority in
the field.
I guess since 1981, have you seen.I guess a question I wanted to ask, from 2001, have you seen any,
from the time of 911, has there been an increase in the last 4or 5 years, with this type of, that youve
seen, in the number of people contacting you. Has it been more wide spread since 911?
Julianne: Not since 911. WhenI would say back in the early 90s Ive seen a tremendous expansion
of these activities since the early 1990s. And it has moved forward in consistent fashion. Its become

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ever more sophisticated and ever more wide spread. There was no sudden burst or flurry of activity
since 911.
Greg: And you have no help whatsoever with the political arena in this. Correct? Politicians will not
touch this with a 10 foot pole?
Julianne: Thats right. And even those who purport to be liberally inclined, and Im speaking about
members of the democratic party, will not touch it, because quote unquote, and they know, they know
whats going on. They dont they simply dont have the funds to be able to pursue it. All sorts of
humma humma excuses will be furnished for not pursuing something like this. Before you close.I hear
the music in the background.
Greg: We can stay another minute if you want.
Julianne: Okay.
Greg: Why dont you come back for 2 minutes on the other side of the break and then well finish up.
Okay?
Julianne: Okay.
Greg: Okay, back with Julianne McKinney and 3 minutes on the Investigative Journal. You wanted to
say something at the break.
Julianne: I did. I want to thank you very, very much for taking on this subject. There are so few in the
media, as a matter of fact, youre the only one I know of, who has the guts to address it.
Greg: And you know, it really doesnt just in defense of every other media person. I dont think its
guts, in a sense, maybe it is. I dont consider myself having guts in this issue. I consider it to be an
issue that you need to take time to understand it. And thats what I would recommend to the people in
the media that havent touched this issue. If it isnt being down right censored by someone above you,
at least take the time to talk, Ill spend time talking to you about it. Because it took me a little time to
figure it out. And, Ill tell you what, its people like you that need to be applauded because its your
efforts that are bringing this to the forefront. Youre laying the credibility on the line. But I thank you
anyway for your kind words.
And with that, I wanted to say goodbye to you. And were going to have to move on. And well have you
on again to talk about this. And thank you so much.
Julianne: And thank you so much.
Greg: And that was Julianne McKinney. And she is an authority in the use of electronic weaponry and
microwave weaponry and she was with us for the last hour and a half.

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Dr. Nick Begich Author and Expert Researcher


of Electromagnetic Weapons
Biography
Dr. Nick Begich is the eldest son of the late United States Congressman
from Alaska, Nick Begich Sr., and political activist Pegge Begich. He is well
known in Alaska for his own political activities. He was twice elected
President of both the Alaska Federation of Teachers and the Anchorage
Council of Education. He has been pursuing independent research in the
sciences and politics for most of his adult life. Begich received Doctor of
Medicine (Medicina Alternitiva), honoris causa, for independent work in
health and political science, from The Open International University for
Complementary Medicines, Colombo, Sri Lanka, in November 1994.
He co-authored with
Jeane Manning the
book Angels Don't Play This HAARP; Advances in
Tesla Technology. Begich has also authored Earth
Rising - The Revolution: Toward a Thousand
Years of Peace and and his latest book Earth
Rising II- The Betrayal of Science, Society and
the Soul both with the late James Roderick. His
latest work is Controlling the Human Mind - The
Technologies of Political Control or Tools for Peak
Performance. Begich has published articles in
science, politics and education and is a well
known lecturer, having presented throughout the
United States and in nineteen countries. He has been featured as a guest on thousands of radio
broadcasts reporting on his research activities including new technologies, health and earth science
related issues. He has also appeared on dozens of television documentaries and other programs
throughout the world including BBC-TV, CBC-TV, TeleMundo, and others.
Begich has served as an expert witness and speaker before the European Parliament. He has spoken on
various issues for groups representing citizen concerns, statesmen and elected officials, scientists and
others. He is the publisher and co-owner of Earthpulse Press. He served as Tribal Administrator/Village
Planner for the Chickaloon Village Council, a federally recognized American Indian Tribe of the
Athabascan Indian Nation for five years and served four years as the Executive Director of The Lay
Institute of Technology, Inc. a Texas non-profit corporation. Currently Begich consults for tribal
organizations, private corporations and others in a number of research areas.
Dr. Begich is a single person with five adult children, and four grandchildren.

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1

Covert Harassment Conference


1-2 October 2015, Berlin, Germany

2
3
Mind Control:
4
5

DR. NICK BEGICH


A Brave New World together with HAARP The Update

DR. BEGICH:

Hello, and thank you for being

here and thank you to Peter and the rest of the team for

putting this together.

8
9

Everyone hears me okay, yes?


Okay.

In the back?

Good.

10

All right.

I want to give a little bit of

11

background in terms of my interest in these areas.

12

those that don't know my family story, it really goes

13

back quite a ways.

14

For

My father was in the United States Congress in

15

the early 1970s during the Nixon Administration.

16

lost in a plane with Hale Boggs.

17

remember this if you've got a little bit of gray hair.

18

Hale Boggs was our House majority leader at the time,

19

one of the most powerful people in the United States

20

Congress.

21

strong dislike for J. Edgar Hoover, because he basically

22

read everybody's mail, tapped everybody's phones,

23

including the United States Congress, and then,

24

essentially, blackmailed political leaders to follow

25

whatever script he laid out.

Some of you may

He was also a Warren Commissioner.

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He was

He had a

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Boggs was a pretty outspoken individual.

At

the time -- it was just before the second election of

Richard Nixon -- Boggs came to Alaska to work on my

father's campaign, which would have been his second term

in the United States Congress.

Boggs, before they flew out on October 16th,

three weeks before the second election of Richard Nixon,

began to talk about this scandal brewing in Washington,

DC.

In fact, that very scandal, had it unfolded a

10

little bit differently -- for those that remember, the

11

planes disappeared.

12

Three weeks later, Nixon's elected for his

13

second term.

14

the Watergate scandal broke.

15

office.

16

moved up again.

17

Rockefeller then slid into the Vice President's slot.

18

And then one of the old Manson women from the Charles

19

Manson days tried to assassinate Ford, which would have

20

put Rockefeller in the White House.

21

It wasn't too much long after that that

Ford moved up.

Agnew was thrown out of

Then Nixon resigned.

Ford

For those that don't remember,

What would have otherwise happened, most

22

likely, the election would have taken place.

23

would have won.

24

out at the same time.

25

controlled the Congress.

Nixon

Agnew and Nixon would have been thrown


The Democrats would have
The Speaker of the House would

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1

have elevated to the Presidency.

have been in control.

happened and history tells us a lot about what really

happened there.

The Democrats would

But the opposite, of course,

Twenty years later there was a report, an

investigative report by a publication called "Roll Call"

in Washington, DC.

these various Congressional deaths.

crashes are kind of the hazard of political leadership,

10
11

That report was looking into all of


You know, plane

it seems like.
But in researching that, what they found in the

12

FBI files were a couple of telexes -- this goes before

13

FAX machines -- and telexes coming from California into

14

Washington, DC reported that two people had been found

15

at a crash site.

16

the FBI to determine whether they were credible.

17

follow-up telex came through saying, yes, they were.

18

That plane was never recovered.

19

officially; yet 20 years later, we find out, in fact,

20

there were.

21

Those sources were later looked at by


A

There were no survivors

So I know about conspiracies.

Conspiracies are

22

conversations that happen in a room like this when

23

there's a bunch of people standing on the outside who

24

might not agree with us.

25

the political life, even at the highest levels, things

But the reality is, even in

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1

happen.

Maybe a few decades go by before the truth is finally

revealed.

Things happen that aren't easily explained.

So I have a strong motivation foundationally in

terms of how I approach controversial issues.

do it with fear.

years.

is the absolute adversary for getting anything

accomplished on this planet.

10

I don't

I've been doing this work for over 20

Fear isn't part of the equation.

In fact, that

My interest in these areas started with HAARP.

11

And how many in this room do not know anything about

12

HAARP?

13

Okay.

Well, that's a lot better than it used

14

to be.

15

Twenty years of this work and the work of others have

16

kind of brought this into the public.

17

All right.

It used to be the other way around.

So the first image -- I'm going to use HAARP as

18

sort of the backdrop as I move into the mind control,

19

mind effects-related technology.

20

in my part of the world.

21

know if -- maybe I've come the farthest for this

22

presentation.

23

appreciate the opportunity to inform people about this

24

subject.

25

This is just an image

I come from Alaska.

I don't

But I appreciate being here and I

So HAARP is a large array, a field of antennas

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in Alaska, currently 180 antennas.

They're

approximately 20 meters tall.

which you can see, which is the very top of these

antennas.

concentrate radiofrequency energy into a relatively

small space.

They have a cross dipole,

And what these are designed to do is focus or

If you think about the energy of a flashlight,

for instance, or a torch, as they say here in Europe, I

shine that against the wall, the beam starts out small,

10

and then it broadens as you get further away from the

11

source.

12

The same is true with radiofrequency energy.

13

You can think about it as an inverted funnel starting

14

here at the transmitter and then spreading out and

15

getting thinner and thinner, less dense, which is why

16

the further you get away from radio broadcast antennas,

17

the weaker and weaker the signal.

18

With HAARP, the opposite occurs.

They have

19

figured out a way through what's called cyclotron

20

resonance, which would be focusing or concentrating the

21

energy.

22

like sort of a cork-screwing kind of motion that got

23

smaller and smaller as you move further and further away

24

from the transmitter.

25

So if you could visualize it, it would look

So it concentrates that energy or focuses that

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energy so you can manipulate it in various ways.

the HAARP array, which was originally designed by a

gentleman, Bernard Eastlund, who's now deceased, was

intended to do a number of things as a weapons

application.

half the current size of the transmitter in Alaska.

can see the field of antennas.

90 antennas in the array.

9
10
11

This is the earlier version when it was


You

In this case there were

And here's another image as they expanded the


array to 180.

And another image showing the array.

Now, they also upgraded the technology pretty

12

substantially over the years.

13

efficient.

14

much bigger effects.

15

And so

So it became much more

So with a much smaller system you create

So what does it do?

Essentially, it's sending

16

energy or focusing energy up into an area known as the

17

ionosphere, which in this image in miles -- I apologize

18

for that -- is approximately 37 miles to 620 miles out

19

into space.

20

Now, this is a highly energized area.

If you

21

think about radiofrequency signals or shortwave signals,

22

they would come from the earth, they'd bounce off of us,

23

and then bounce back down to the earth to transmit over

24

large distances.

25

The ionosphere also is an area that can be

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disturbed by solar radiation, radiation from the sun.

When it becomes destabilized, it interferes with

terrestrial communications of every kind.

So part of the idea in this technology was to

learn how to stabilize the ionosphere during these

periods or deliberately disrupt the ionosphere to

interfere with communications on a global basis.

8
9

Now, what caught my interest when I first


looked at this issue of HAARP was a very short article

10

in a publication, an Australian publication, that talked

11

about this big system in Alaska.

12

Now, I come from a family that's pretty

13

politically engaged.

14

Congress, my younger brother just finished a term in the

15

United States Senate.

16

politics a very long time.

17

Besides my dad being in the

My family's been involved in

Alaska is a very big region, but we're a really

18

small population; 700,000 people in our entire region.

19

And when you think about big projects, you know, you

20

think you know something about them.

21

Well, I'm reading about this project in my

22

state in a journal in Australia and I'm going, you know,

23

why doesn't anybody know about this?

24
25

And so I decided I would go in and look into


this issue independently.

And I did.

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I picked up maybe

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30 articles and papers, design specifications, some

things, and with friends encouraging me to publish, I

published the first article that I had written on HAARP

back in 1994.

So it's been a very long time ago.

What also caught my interest was the idea that

they were primarily utilizing, in some applications,

extremely low frequency signals or ELFs.

signals that can be biologically active, can affect us

as human beings and in very specific ways.

10

These are

And in particular, certain applications of the

11

technology -- and this gives you sort of a graphic

12

illustration of the focus.

13

were given to me by the inventor, Bernard Eastlund,

14

prior to his passing.

15

publications and in some of our work.

16

kind of a graphic showing the radiofrequency from the

17

array, moving up into the ionosphere and focusing that

18

energy.

19

These view graphs, actually,

And we utilized them in our


So this gives you

His initial concept was to create a global

20

shield, to be able to utilize the natural magnetic field

21

lines that surround the earth, be able to punch energy

22

into this and then create this kind of global shielding

23

effect.

24

piercing that energy would be disrupted, like

25

satellites, intercontinental ballistic missiles,

And the idea was that any electronic device

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virtually any electronic device that ran into this field

of energy that was being amplified would be destroyed.

Now, one of the other interesting parts of

this -- and this kind of shows that, again, utilizing

one of Eastlund's graphics.

line and then you see this cork-screwing energy going

around it.

southern polar regions into the northern polar regions.

And, in this case, they actually couple -- actually

10

utilize the energy on the ground to couple with the

11

natural energy, and then coming from the north to the

12

south, create this cork-screwing effect, which

13

accelerates the electrons and then creates this global

14

shield.

15

So you can see like a field

That energy naturally is occurring from the

Now, that was his initial concept.

And as a

16

concept, it caught the attention of a number of people

17

and eventually got funding from the Congress, initially

18

at 30 million, and over the last few decades now over

19

almost 300 million, which in dollars is not a lot of

20

money, but when you consider, this is sort of the

21

pinnacle of billions of dollars spent in ionosphere

22

research over many decades.

23

What caught my attention in terms of the

24

technology of Eastlund -- I'm going to skip some of

25

these that are not so relevant -- was the idea that you

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could manipulate the ionosphere -- and I'll use this as

a better example.

you could punch or pulse energy into the ionosphere --

so think about this energy going up and, like, a hammer

ringing a bell.

ionosphere itself vibrates and then it begins to send a

signal in the ELF range.

signal going up, punching the ionosphere, the ionosphere

which is energized then acts as a broadcast antenna in

So one of the thoughts was that if

Every time it hits that ionosphere, the

So you have a high frequency

10

the sky bringing back an ELF signal to the earth, and in

11

this case covering an entire hemisphere.

12

Now, ELF signals, extremely low frequency

13

signals, are very long wavelengths.

14

earth and sea.

15

submarines, as an example, the depth, because short

16

wavelengths won't penetrate the earth and sea.

17

also used for what's called earth-penetrating

18

tomography, which in simple language or by analogy would

19

be like x-raying the earth or looking into the earth for

20

underground structures.

21

They penetrate the

They're utilized for communication with

They're

But one of the side effects of ELF is the

22

entrainment effect on the human mind.

Because ELF

23

signals will lock onto in what's called a frequency

24

following response.

25

techniques to create a frequency following response.

And you can use a lot of different

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You can use flickering light, you can use binaural beat,

which I'll explain in a few minutes.

electromagnetic fields such as this, or even the power

grid itself can be modulated in such a way to create a

signal that the human body will join with, will couple

with, and begin to follow.

of energy to accomplish this.

You can use

It doesn't take a great deal

This is the one that triggered my real interest

in HAARP, because this is the one that everybody kind of

10

ignored and said, oh.

11

well, if ELF has a biological effect, it's a side

12

effect.

13

phrase earlier today.

14

believe that it's an intended consequence.

15

intended to grade populations in very specific ways.

16

In fact, the HAARP planners said,

It's an unintended consequence.

We heard that

But I don't believe that.

It's

Now, this book was mentioned by my friend

17

earlier today, "Between Two Ages", by Zbigniew

18

Brzezinski.

19

written, actually, in 1973, when Brzezinski was at

20

Columbia University.

21

Security Adviser to President Carter.

22

the time that Kissinger and he and others were starting

23

to think about the Trilateral Commission organizing this

24

think tank, so to speak.

25

And why this is an important book, it was

This is before he became National

Now, find this book.

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This is around

I really encourage you to

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find this book and read it, because it is not a

prediction of what will come with technology.

blueprint, in fact.

It's the

You can read this.

When I first read it -- he writes in a pretty

convoluted style.

English to understand.

read it because he predicted the economic changes that

took place, the political changes that took place in the

world over the last 40 years with a great deal of

10

accuracy.

11

prediction.

12

It's a little difficult even in


But I really encourage you to

And some will say it really wasn't the


It was the plan.

If you look within this text between Pages 54

13

and 56, you'll see a section that's dedicated to the

14

kind of technologies we're talking about today, a mind

15

control technology.

16

guy named J. F. Gordon MacDonald.

17

geophysicist at UCL.

18

chapter in a book and the chapter was called, "How to

19

Wreck Your Environment", which this is before Earth Day,

20

okay, so he could get away with that.

21

that book was actually published.

22

caught Zbigniew Brzezinski's attention was, he said, if

23

we could ever figure out how to electronically stroke

24

the ionosphere in just the right way, we could return a

25

signal to the earth that would influence the behavior of

And what Zbigniew referenced was a


And he was a

He wrote a book -- or, actually, a

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It was 1969 when

But what he said that

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people over huge geographic areas.

Now, that's a pretty profound thing.

But we

didn't have a way to stroke the ionosphere in 1969.

we did by the 1990s.

fact, the HAARP system that can accomplish this.

But

And that was, in fact, and is, in

So the idea was -- and it was kind of, in a

gross sort of way, primitive, if you will, but what the

intention was, was that if you could pulse the

ionosphere, return this ELF signal to the earth, you

10

could agitate the population in very specific ways.

11

could make them passive, less aggressive, or the

12

opposite by just amplifying that signal.

13

explain a little bit of that as we go on.

You

And I'll

14

The other person that comes out in the last

15

presentations, Jose Delgado, and this book he wrote,

16

"Physical Control of the Mind:

17

Society".

18

images that you saw in just this short video clip of

19

Delgado's work, there is a good section in this text as

20

well showing that.

21

Toward a Psychocivilized

And this is, again, a 1960s book.

But in those days they used implants.

Those

They had

22

to physically put something in the brain.

And what Jose

23

Delgado originally did -- he was actually educated in

24

electrophysiology at the University of Madrid.

25

graduated in 1950.

He

Electrophysiology, as a degree

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field, thinking about it in 1950, now 65 years ago, most

people don't even realize that's an area of higher

education today, much less that far back.

One of my mentors, Raul Makayla (phonetic), he

actually graduated University of Madrid in 1958, and his

area of interest was, essentially, the same, biomagnetic

and electric fields, effects on human physiology, and he

spent his career studying that.

Delgado, at Yale University, he initially was

10

mapping the brain of primates and humans by stimulating

11

various portions of the brain to figure out what was

12

responsible for what kind of activity.

13

began to utilize the implants in those dramatic ways in

14

those film clips with the charging bull and he throws

15

the switch and the bull stops, to demonstrate that you

16

could take a creature from passive to highly aggressive

17

to passive to highly aggressive, just like flipping on

18

and off the lights in your living room.

19

And then he

What Delgado discovered by the mid-'80s is that

20

you didn't need any implants.

You just needed to

21

manipulate the energy itself.

And you didn't need a

22

great deal of energy.

23

Now, we've heard -- I forget the amount of

24

energy surrounding us now.

Was it a quintillion?

25

believe it was 18 zeros after the one that we heard

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earlier.

radiofrequency energy alone, it was 200 million times

more around us every day than nature created in 1994.

Back when I wrote the HAARP book in '94, just

Now, when you think about it, what did Delgado

discover?

of energy in the natural background noise of the earth

was sufficient to manipulate the behavior of human

beings if you could hit the right frequencies, if you

could hit those window frequencies that stimulated that

10
11

He discovered that one-fiftieth of the amount

kind of activity.
Now, if you think about this -- again, by

12

analogy, think about dialing through the radio stations

13

on a radio.

14

noise, the static, you get no clear signal.

15

you have resonance between the transmitter and the

16

receiver, then you get a nice, clear signal.

17

The same is true in our physiology.

18

you're looking at stimulating or affecting a specific

19

element in the body, molecules in the body, cell

20

structures or organ structures or even the human mind,

21

it's about manipulating the underlying energy.

22

In between the stations you get the white


But when

Whether

When you think about medical science in terms

23

of how the fork in the road is and how this kind of

24

applies to why don't we know more about this today,

25

well, there's lots of literature now.

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25,000 sources, I

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think we heard quoted earlier today.

25,000 sources

talking about the energy interactions with the human

body.

That is a lot of information.

But what happened in medical science?

A lot of

people that went into life sciences, they were really

good in the chemistry, a little weak in the math, so

they went to life sciences.

better in the math, they went to physics.

upon a time, these two came together and we got

People who were a little


And then once

10

biophysics, which is really the root of real health

11

science.

12

you've got to get to the energetic interactions that

13

create chemical reactions that then manifest in the

14

body.

15

If you really want to get to the meat of it,

And that's what we kind of miss in so much of

16

our medicine.

17

opposed to an electromagnetic model.

18

to World War II, that fork in the road was being

19

explored pretty aggressively, the energetic models.

20

they were somehow lost in that shuffle and we ended up

21

with the pharmaceutical industry, and the results of

22

that, I think we can all not be quite so proud of.

23

We followed a pharmaceutical model as


In the '30s, prior

But

In terms of where the technology is going and

24

where a lot of the science is going, it will be

25

electromedicine that cures most of what we call

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incurable.

debilitates human consciousness itself.

It will also be that which enhances or

Now, Jose Delgado, when he figured out that you

didn't need implants, you just need to manipulate the

energy itself, this became kind of the essence of sort

of where everything went from there.

But I want to roll back a little bit, a little

bit back in time, and talk more about the evolution of

mind control as technology starting with the work at

10

Harvard University of a gentleman, Estabrook, who was

11

working in the Harvard hypnotherapy labs in the 1920s.

12

You can look Estabrook up.

13

of Congress and you'll see his list of publications, and

14

I recommend that you do that.

15

Look him up at the Library

What he decided was that you could create what

16

we would call today a Manchurian candidate.

17

take certain individuals, put them in a very, very deep

18

state of hypnosis and then over a period of time train

19

them so they would be like this super spy that you could

20

send into another country and they'd hang out for a year

21

or two, but if they got captured, they wouldn't really

22

remember any of their former self, and then when they

23

came back, in this case, into the United States, that we

24

would then give them the appropriate suggestions and

25

then extract the intelligence from them.

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You could

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And this is what Estabrook was working on.

By

the 1930s, a lot of his work was being classified and he

continued to work in this field up through the 1960s.

His last book -- and I always like to read the last

thing someone writes, you know, because it tells you a

lot about, sort of, the conclusions and there are things

that you might discard bits and pieces as science

enlightens you and your experience enlightens you.

what he talked about in that last book were the

10

experiments he was involved in using LSD and other

11

hallucinogenics in mind control, which he actually

12

talked about in a favorable sense.

13

And

And for those of you that remember, the CIA was

14

heavily involved in this in the 1960s and, in fact, the

15

whole area pre-1960s going back even to the Korean War,

16

which is sort of my next mark on the timeline.

17

The Korean War, we had prisoners, patriotic

18

young Americans come back from war and they're handing

19

out Communist leaflets on street corners, and the term

20

or the phrase brainwashing came into being.

21

where it came from.

22

after the Korean War.

23

That's

It came from that series of events

The idea of being able to manipulate people's

24

behavior and change them so profoundly became of

25

interest to the predecessor of the Central Intelligence

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Agency and then later the Central Intelligence Agency.

And what they looked at were lots of different ways to

manipulate human behavior.

Now, when I was researching my first book with

Jeane Manning, "Angels Don't Play This HAARP", I was

looking for a good source document that would speak to

this, because you always read about this in secondary,

tertiary sources.

surplus book room, and I'm telling this guy that I know,

And so I'm in a book room, a big

10

I really need this source.

11

conversation, I reach unconsciously behind me into a box

12

and I pull out this book.

13

And as I'm having this

This is a really interesting one.

This is

14

actually a presidential report.

15

was commissioned at the time, 1975, to look at the

16

abuses of the CIA.

17

Committee reports, which were Congressional hearings

18

that took place in the early '70s to investigate the

19

abuses of the Central Intelligence Agency, the kind of

20

abuses that we read about today, because nothing really

21

changed.

22

This is a report that

Now, this came out of the Church

Supposedly, this was to change things.


Now, what's in this report?

The LSD

23

experiments were in this report.

24

Intelligence Agency was domestically infiltrating civil

25

rights groups, antiwar groups, people that, essentially,

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The idea the Central

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opposed the government within the United States, which

was not part of their mandate, in fact, was illegal.

The fact that they were reading people's mail, utilizing

unwitting victims and experiments for mind control.

of this came out in this report in 1975.

CIA continues to do it even to this day.

All

And yet, the

Think about the kinds of activities that have

been reported pretty widely over the last few years,

whether it's digging through garbage to blackmail other

10

diplomats, which is something our Intelligence community

11

does, whether it's to send pallet loads of money into

12

countries like we did in Afghanistan to bribe officials

13

as a way of doing business, or whether it's to

14

assassinate people with drones, kidnap people and

15

torture them.

16

Now, most of us don't know people like this,

17

but this is the government that I unfortunately have

18

guiding my country right now.

19

criminals.

20

couldn't happen here.

21

It's a government of

Now, people want to talk about, oh, this

It has happened here.

It's happened for

22

decades in the United States.

23

President's Commission touches the very tip of that

24

iceberg.

25

This report by the

This is another document.

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This is -- this guy,

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Captain Tyler, he later became a colonel and retired.

He was involved in pretty much the sort of esoteric side

of some of the government research.

chapter out of this book is called, "Low-Intensity

Conflict and Modern Technology".

Maxwell Air Force Base in 1984.

about a large -- a variety of technologies.

8
9

This book -- this

It was prepared by
And it was talking

But in this particular one, if you look at,


certainly, the subject lines, you have stimulation of ,

10

bones* generation, healing of fractures, treatment of

11

disease, healing of wounds.

12

modification in animals.

13

that are listed here were kind of under the mysterious

14

category.

15

happening in 1984.

16

You look at behavior

You know, some of these things

They couldn't really explain what was

But the idea was to stimulate research in these

17

fields.

So a number of things happened.

A lot of money

18

started to flow into these areas.

19

that came out in the 1980s as a result of some of this

20

was the Radiofrequency Dosimetry Handbook.

21

big, thick handbook.

22

of Utah under contract to the United States Air Force to

23

determine the radiofrequency dosages that were required

24

to override every vital organ of the human body, whether

25

it be the heart, the liver, the lungs, the kidneys, just

One of the reports

It was a

It was produced by the University

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sort of preempt their natural function to be able to do

it remotely.

And the idea was to take that leap of

technology and begin to apply it into weapon systems.

Mind control.

you will remember this one.

Yeah, 2002.

about the ethics of mind control.

it exist or doesn't it exist?

"The Economist".

Cover story.

Some of

This is 2002, I believe.

And what this cover story was about was


Not saying, hey, does

It's just saying it's

10

here right now.

11

we should advance this technology, whether we should

12

limit this technology.

13

credible publication.

14

story.

15

We really need to be debating whether

"The Economist" is certainly a


Not too much happened from this

This is -- unfortunately, it's not showing up.

16

November -- you can get this one on my website.

I'll

17

give you my website, because this is a very important

18

document.

19

human experiments.

20

in history, that's like tomorrow and yesterday, right?

21

It's, like, now.

22

mind control experiments and who has the authority to

23

approve them.

24

approve them is under secretaries of the Navy in the

25

case of Navy Intelligence or Naval research.

The Navy set up a new set of regulations for


It was approved in 2006.

You know,

And in this they specifically call out

And the persons with the authority to

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Now, it's not just CIA.

Naval Intelligence

does this work.

non-lethal weapons that this falls under.

has the electromagnetic directorate, which is working in

an area called controlled effects, which deal, again,

with mind control and physiological effects on human

beings.

"Technology Horizons".

issue.

10

The Marines have a section on


The Air Force

In fact, they publish a publication called


I believe it's the June 2004

You can look it up.

The cover story is on

controlled effects.

11

Now, what are controlled effects?

The first

12

effect is attacking hardware; you know, like equipment,

13

like machines, to be able to interfere with the flow of

14

electrons through circuits to disrupt those machines to

15

operate.

16

history, but using energy itself to manipulate hardware.

17

Not using bombs and bullets and the things of

The second sort of level of controlled effects

18

talked about in that article is the idea of manipulating

19

the software, the systems that run those systems, so

20

that you can disrupt the software, then you disrupt the

21

hardware, and things collapse.

22

And the third leg of controlled effects is the

23

human operator.

And what they say in this particular

24

article produced by the electromagnetic director of the

25

Air Force is that we can target or create the illusion

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of all of the senses in the human body; sight, sound,

touch, taste, to give people complete memory sets,

complete experiential sets that you wouldn't be able to

distinguish the synthetic from the real.

Now, think about that for a moment.

What does

that do to court testimony in 20 years if this becomes

the norm?

post-traumatic stress syndrome folks, people coming back

from warfare.

They're now talking about using this for

This just sort of cleans up the garbage

10

of the mind and gets rid of that stress.

11

think that's a great idea.

12

the biggest mistake we could ever make.

13

whatever those servicemen and women were engaged in --

14

what used to happen in warfare -- what happened in World

15

War II when everybody came back, they said, I don't ever

16

want to see my children in these things, I don't want to

17

see my grandchildren in these things.

18

put down, not amplified.

19

Some people

Personally, I think that's


Because

Wars need to be

When you take the human factor out of warfare

20

and it becomes like a videogame, then our willingness to

21

withdraw from direct conflict no longer happens.

22

And think about where our military science has

23

gone.

In fact, I want to mention another very important

24

publication.

25

in the early 1980s.

It was produced by the US Army War College


It's called the "Revolution of

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Military Affairs and Conflict Short of War".

particular paper was talking about revolution of

military affairs.

And this

What is that exactly?

This is a leap as important as the introduction

of gunpowder in the middle ages in Europe, as important

as atomic weapons in the last century.

they characterize it.

where we move from ordinance, from bullets, bombs,

things that rip tissue and tear things up, to

And that's how

And what this is is the leap

10

electromagnetic weapon systems that keep sort of the

11

hardware intact, but debilitate the human operator to

12

the point of being combat ineffective.

13

enhance the possibilities within our own combatants

14

while degrading the abilities of others.

15

Or conversely,

There's simple ways that you can achieve this.

16

You can introduce to the battlefield certain elemental

17

compounds that in small background amounts would not be

18

considered dangerous.

19

example.

20

body to maintain thyroid function.

21

much iodine, you'll get poisoned.

22

get sick.

23

Let me give you iodine as an

We all need a certain amount of iodine in the

So what can you do?

But if you have too


You'll die.

You'll

You can send a signal in

24

that resonates the very same signal strength and

25

frequency as iodine, you can send that signal in and the

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body will begin to react as if its gotten this massive

load of iodine and show all the symptoms of iodine

poisoning.

You check the thyroid; check the blood, it's

not there.

Mystery illness.

Something as simple as that for manipulating

large populations, not necessarily with their consent

and not necessarily with clear knowledge, and nothing

shows up in the background that would say why this

poison actually exists that would account for this.

10
11

simple way.
One of the other ways that this technology can

12

be exploited is really quite simple.

13

article produced by "Parameters", which is a military

14

publication.

15

the -- I believe it was the Fall 1998, but you can look

16

up the article name called, "The Mind has no Firewall".

17

It's a very important article.

18

about all the various ways in which you could introduce

19

mind effects or mind control technologies using modern

20

technology today.

21

written in a military journal called "Orienteer"

22

published in what is now Russia.

23

"Parameters".

There was an

You can look it up.

It's

This article talked

And the original article was actually

What's interesting about this is it said you

24

could use any electromagnetic carrier, whether it be

25

radio, TV, the Internet, now cell phones; but,

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essentially, any of these carriers, you can modulate a

signal on them that will manipulate behavior of segments

of the population.

And the Russians demonstrated this in a couple

of different ways.

There was a program.

It was called

"Undercurrents".

Canadian Public Broadcasting System.

did two really interesting stories that I got to

participate in.

It aired in the CBC, which is the


"Undercurrents"

One was on HAARP and the other was on

10

mind control.

And on the mind control story that they

11

did -- this was a very popular program in Canada at the

12

time and this particular segment was their highest rated

13

that they had ever run.

14

who were involved in the "Star Wars" initiative during

15

the Reagan Administration that couldn't talk about what

16

they did in the White House, but they could talk about

17

what they observed in Russia.

And they had folks that came in

18

And one of the things that they talked about

19

was the idea that you could -- you could create, sort

20

of, this white noise and on this white noise carry a

21

signal.

22

cake.

23

these little cakes?

24

of Europe as well.

25

And so they put out this message, bring us


And Russians at tea time, you know, they eat
I guess you do that in other parts

And so at the appointed time they began to

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broadcast this.

and on the street were bringing cake into the meeting

room without really knowing why they were doing it.

They just felt like doing it.

what they were programmed to do.

And workers from within that building

Now, this goes back.

Well, that was, in fact,

We're talking about

15-year-old technology.

And when you think about sort

of where did it go from there, in 2006, there were a

couple contracts left by DARPA, which does research for

10

the defense industry in the United States.

And DARPA

11

used to be run by a guy named Tony Tether.

Tony Tether

12

was a good friend of Ben Eastlund's.

13

Now, what they were doing then was, they had

14

left two contracts to the University of California for

15

what's called electronic telepathy.

16

telepathy.

17

a distance by analyzing the emanations coming from this

18

area, being able to analyze that and determine and

19

interpret what it is.

20

contract was to create complex signals to see if you

21

could transfer that array, so to speak, of signals into

22

another person's consciousness and whether they would

23

perceive the same images.

24
25

Okay.

Electronic

The idea of reading another person's mind at

And then the other half of the

Now, there was work done by Elizabeth Rauscher


and her late husband, Bill Van Bise, in this very same

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area.

In fact, I have a copy of their unpublished paper

where they actually built an electronic circuit where

they could take a person in one room and a person in

another room, attach this person to that circuit and

this person to that circuit, and then, you know, the

psychic card where they show the triangles, the squares

and the circles and the little squiggly lines, a hundred

percent accurate with nine test subjects who had never

experienced consciously in any way any sense of

10

extrasensory perceptions or psychic perceptions.

11

did it with hardware, transferring thoughts from one to

12

the other.

13

They

Now -- which tells me it's probably a little

14

more simple than what DARPA's doing.

But when Ben

15

Eastlund was doing work on HAARP and he was doing other

16

work for DARPA at the time and we had talked about him

17

in our first publication, and then actually after

18

publication became friends, and Ben Eastlund's attitude

19

was, you know, some things just shouldn't be done.

20

one of the things that he had been working on was

21

whether modification technologies, which he was at that

22

time and when we first met, making that technology

23

available to the military.

24

us and others, he decided there's certain technologies

25

that are not safe in the hands of military.

And

And after some dialogue with

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At one point along the course I began doing

quite a bit of work on this whole mind effects issue.

And I caught the attention of a woman, Dorothy Lay.

Now, Dorothy is one of the heirs to the Lay, as in

Frito-Lay and PepsiCo Corporation.

family.

specifically as it applied to victims.

So a very wealthy

Dorothy was very interested in this technology

And so she approached me at one point and asked

if I would become a member of her board of directors for

10

a non-profit that she was setting up to deal with these

11

kinds of technologies.

12

whether I should tell you the rest of this story, and I

13

think I will, because why not?

14

And I've got to think about

So I have this thing, intuition.

All of us

15

have it.

16

do today.

17

listen, because when I really think about it, it's never

18

been wrong.

19

about it.

20

start acting on it.

21

I used to not pay as much attention to it as I


When my intuition tells me something, I

Neither has yours, if you really think


Or maybe you don't think about it and just

So my intuition said -- and this was a very

22

difficult time for me in 2002.

In 2002, I had been

23

betrayed by a very good friend, economically was

24

bankrupt in the middle of this work, because I started

25

this work in '94.

Economically was being crushed.

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And

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at that point I was deciding whether I was going to stay

in this work at all.

And I'm going through a bunch of my files and I

see this file and it's marked Lay.

person had contacted us needing some information and we

provided it.

way we operated is, I sold books.

bought my books.

And I remember this

And we never charge for that.

I mean, the

And people like you

And they allowed me to do this work.

I didn't write for grants where somebody could

10

manipulate me and control me and tell me what to say.

11

didn't go out and find some publisher that would edit

12

out my work.

13

book.

14

that work by buying that book.

15

two and a half million dollars and I spent that two and

16

a half million dollars over 20 years doing what I'm

17

doing right now.

I risked my own money.

I published my

And then I asked people to help me by supporting

18

A VOICE:

19

(Applause.)

20

DR. BEGICH:

And I tell you, I made

Thank you.

And the whole idea was just to

21

educate.

I didn't deal with victims.

Okay.

And the

22

reason I didn't was because I felt that that was putting

23

the cart before the horse.

24

people that the technology is real, that this could

25

really happen to people and from that foundation, and

We first need to educate

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that became the foundation of my work in this.

So Dorothy calls me on the phone and she says,

will you be on my board?

an hour.

on your board.

And I talked to her for about

At the end of the hour, I said, no, I can't be

She said, well, why not?

I said, because my intuition is telling me I

8
9
10

really can't be on your board.


And she goes, well, I deserve more than that.
I said, okay.

I don't know your board members,

11

I don't know who your board is, but something in here is

12

saying there's a problem there and I don't want to be

13

associated with them.

14

(Applause.)

15

DR. BEGICH:

16

I got the call back.

17

you have millions.

18

what they say they're doing.

19

being done and find out for yourself.

20

diligence again.

21

So it was a couple of months later


Because I told her also, I said,
You have the ability.

And she did.

Go see if it's really


Do your due

A couple months later she came

22

back and she said, you were right.

23

me a number of ways.

24

just me now and my attorney.

25

Go research

They were defrauding

I've cleared out my board.

It's

Will you be on my board?

Now, bear in mind, I'm in a pretty desperate

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situation economically.

At the time I have five

children at home.

have an economy that I've got to manage.

Dorothy, no, I can't be on your board.

I've got people to take care of.


And I tell

She says, well, why not?

I said, well, I need to meet you first in

person, eyeball to eyeball.

for three days.

foundation.

I said, we're going to talk

We're not going to talk about your

I want to know everything I'm ever going to

10

read about you and your family in the newspaper.

11

you to have the same knowledge level of me.

12

to know what your world view is before I join with you

13

in achieving that world view, because you have the means

14

and I have the willingness if that world view is shared.

15

So we spent a few days.

I want

And I want

We decided that I

16

could do this.

17

And we put together, as her major effort was, a

18

conference on mind effects.

19

public.

20

bring some key people together to have a conversation

21

that would be open and free.

22

And for four years I worked with her.

But it wasn't open to the

It was closed to the public.

And it was to

And one of those people I invited was Ben

23

Eastlund, who by then I'd gotten to know, had watched

24

what he had done in terms of his career.

25

connected with DARPA at the time.

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He was well

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And I called him and I said, you know, Ben,

would you consider participating in this conference?

And he said, you know, if you had asked me this

seven or eight years ago, on a scale of one to ten, ten

being the relevance and importance of this, and one

being irrelevant and unimportant, I would have given

this a one or a two.

time I talk to Tony Tether or others at DARPA, nobody's

laughing about mind control anymore and it's a nine or a

10

He goes, but -- he goes, every

ten and, yes, I'll participate in your conference.

11

The next person I asked was Garth Nicolson.

12

Does that name ring any bells for anybody?

13

Nicolson was a full professor, I believe it was Texas

14

A&M.

15

thousand medical students.

16

whistle on Gulf War Syndrome and testified in our

17

Congress six times before his wife was fired as a

18

molecular biologist from Texas A&M.

19

they couldn't fire him.

20

him, because he was one of the first courageously enough

21

to step up to the plate and complain about what had been

22

happening in the Gulf War; we depleted uranium and some

23

of the other technologies that were being applied there.

24
25

He taught medical students.

Okay.

Garth

He taught over a

He was the guy that blew the

And he was tenured;

But they definitely harassed

Well, the best thing that ever happened to him


was he got out of the university system.

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He formed a

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nonprofit to deal with chronic disease.

somebody that I watched maintain his course under really

difficult circumstances.

conference.

And he was

So he was invited to that

I invited the daughter of my mentor, Raul

Makayla.

one of the boards in Russia that regulates medical

applications of lasers.

Quite brilliant.

10

She's an electrophysiologist.

She serves on

She's an electrophysiologist.

We invited her.

We invited Rosalie Bertell.


Okay.

Does anyone

11

remember Rosalie Bertell?

12

passed.

13

physicist, biologist.

14

doctoral students at Berkeley.

15

It's kind of an odd combination.

16

statistician to go in to Bhopal for the World Health

17

Organization after that huge chemical disaster.

18

was considered one of the top people in the world for

19

dealing with victims of radiological experiments,

20

including electromagnetic radiation.

21

some of our work and added to it and published a book on

22

the HAARP system and its effect on human beings on this

23

sort of broad scale.

24

been through some really difficult times as well, rose

25

out of her own ashes and maintained her ethical

Also deceased now.

A few.

Rosalie's

She was a mathematician,

She taught higher mathematics to


She was also a nun.
She was the lead

But she

She actually took

So we had invited Rosalie, who had

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2

platform.
The other person we invited was Alexander

Kaivarainen.

Does anybody recognize that name?

He was

the former head of the USSR Academy of Science

Biophysics Department for ten years.

area that really gets into the meat of what we're

talking about here today.

believe, is deceased now also.

guys, you know, they're a lot older than me and they

And this is the

Now, what got -- Alex, I


You know, all these

10

keep dying of old age.

11

science at a young age watching a demonstration of the

12

paranormal, ESP, telepathy, these kinds of things in

13

Russia when he was a teenager.

14

caught his interest.

15

But Alex got his stimulation in

And it just really

When I met Alex, he was in his 60s and he was

16

the brightest top five physicists on the planet,

17

recognized by institutions around the world.

18

he had determined is that there were rational reasons

19

for why these things manifested.

20

this conference and actually presented a paper giving

21

the mathematics and the physics that lends itself to

22

these extrasensory possibilities, these things that the

23

military now calls anomalous human capabilities.

24

used to call it extrasensory perception or ESP, but now

25

they give it a new name because there's a lot of

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And what

So he was invited to

We

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connotations with that that kind of get you discredited

in certain segments of the scientific community.

So I want to talk -- roll back again a little

bit -- I want to talk about binaural beat, which I had

mentioned earlier in this presentation.

around a little bit.

not even use these things, but I think people feel more

comfortable using them.

And I jump

It's kind of my style.

The binaural beat.

I used to

We can't hear these really,

10

really low frequency signals, because the human ear

11

doesn't quite work that way.

12

the human ear won't hear.

Below a certain frequency,

13

Now, a gentleman by the name of Robert Monroe

14

developed a method using binaural beat where you could

15

send in a signal within the range of human hearing, say,

16

at 15,000 Hertz or pulses per second or cycles per

17

second, coming in one ear at, say, 15,000, another

18

signal coming in the other ear at, say, 15,007.

19

the cranium they will cancel each other out and leave a

20

beat frequency of seven, the difference between the two.

21

15,000, 15,007.

22

seven pulses per second, which happens to be in the

23

upper Theta range, and this is where the brain then

24

drives to.

25

Within

The beat frequency becomes seven Hertz,

At the same time that that occurs, you get a

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hemispheric balance, a distribution of energy across

both hemispheres of the brain, the analytical side and

the creative side and working together.

actually how human beings are supposed to function.

This is how young children predominantly function, with

more of a balance between the hemispheres, where the

energy is more balanced.

8
9

This is

And then we educate them.

And with young girls, who we say are more


intuitive and have this other operation of the brain,

10

and young boys are more analytical, and now we kind of

11

treat everybody the same so we kind of dumb them all

12

down to the same level.

13

children and you look at where their brain activity is

14

and between 3 and, say, 5 or 6 years old, they have

15

this predominant brain frequencies or a lot of Theta

16

brain frequencies coming in and then some ELF and then

17

higher frequency ranges.

18

But when you look at young

Now, what is Theta?

Theta states if we're in a

19

Theta state, we're kind of like in that dream-like state

20

between awake and asleep where you're consciously aware

21

of your dreams.

22

good deal of their time.

23

as we call it, are so active.

24

don't pay attention to that, don't pay attention to

25

that.

That's where 3 to 5 year olds spend a


That's why their imaginations,
And we keep saying, oh,

This was our first attempt to shut down the

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intuitive combinations of the way the brain is actually

supposed to work.

In fact, for those who have a Christian

background, you know Jesus Christ himself said, look at

the little children, watch what they do.

think I heard somebody say something about this earlier,

little children come to the table kind of innocent with

a view of the world that's quite different than the rest

of ours.

You know, I

But the brain activity of children is unique

10

and we begin to take that out of them in the structure

11

of the way we educate.

12

So what Robert Monroe -- he was actually a

13

radio engineer.

14

had this really weird experience.

15

body experience, that he had that kind of threw him.

16

You know, it didn't make any sense to him.

17

began -- he also noticed that in the background there

18

was this kind of noise that he perceived.

19

He owned a bunch of radio stations.

He

It's an OBE, an outer

So he

So he began to experiment and he created this

20

technique for binaural beat.

He developed a whole

21

series.

22

binaural beat.

23

those US patents from 1994, and this is showing the

24

brain before the activity, before turning on the

25

Hemi-Sync, and this is after, showing a more even

In fact, he actually got US patents on a


This is an image taken out of one of

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distribution in a more rhythmic pattern in the

brainwaves as you see in the upper right-hand corner.

Let me roll back again so you can kind of see

the comparison.

activities happening all through the brain, and then a

coherent signal creating a hemispheric balance and an

optimization of brain potential.

8
9

Normal brain, kind of disorganized

So what did he do with this?

He developed a

whole series of things; audio input technology,

10

essentially, to manipulate behavior, but where you're in

11

control of that manipulation.

12

smoking, you get his CD on quit smoking.

13

brain in such a way, becomes compelling, very affective.

14

So you want to quit


It affects the

Sleep disorders can be addressed in this way.

15

They have someone be able to relax, meditation,

16

concentration, accelerated learning.

17

things can be done.

18

over the course of many, many, many, many years, and now

19

his daughter doing the work of working with thousands of

20

people to determine which signals actually created which

21

effects and then developing technology that they could

22

place in the hands of individuals to make the choice on

23

how to use it.

24
25

A whole array of

And they did this by working with,

Now, that's kind of an interesting way of


looking at technology.

It was my area of interest, in

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the beginning of all of this work, was not looking for

the dark side of all of this, but in the mid-'80s I got

very interested in light and sound stimulation of the

brain that capitalized on sound signals and flickering

light for brain entrainment.

the brain will follow that external signal or what's

called FFR, frequency following response.

little energy.

Entrain the brain where

So very

Let me roll back to Delgado again.

10

One-fiftieth of the amount of energy the earth creates

11

is sufficient to move your brain into very specific

12

states.

13

just another technique for altering brain activity that

14

might be beneficial, but you're in control of it, not

15

somebody else.

16

Dialing that radio up, if you will.

This is

I'm going to skip some of these just because

17

they're not so relevant.

18

images and let me just go back into the whole dialogue

19

of this, mind effects.

20

And I'm going to close the

When I think about sort of where do we go with

21

this conference, when we put that conference together

22

with the Lay Institute, our purpose was to put together

23

these really good thinkers to try and see if we could

24

create a synergy between them.

25

And when I first got interested in doing

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something actively in science, it wasn't about HAARP and

it wasn't about mind control.

would play -- and I was working in a government office

at the time, and it was -- my friend said, you make your

living with your left foot.

living, but the rest of my creativity could be engaged

elsewhere and me working in bureaucracy was really a bad

match.

The role that I thought I

Because I could make my

But the point was, my youngest son, when I was

10

getting really frustrated with my work, said, change

11

channels.

12

You know, I'm thinking about this, because I

13

had just given him this discussion about creativity was

14

like changing the channels on the TV set, right, and so

15

he's feeding it back, time to change the channels, Dad.

16

So I thought about it.

And what I decided I

17

would do is -- I read independently in science over 20

18

years.

19

say, one guy in one branch of science.

20

if this person could ever meet that person, you could

21

really see something happen.

22

I had read some really compelling things from,


I thought, boy,

And the first paper I actually ever presented

23

in science, I was 19 and it was at another obscure

24

conference that I ended up in on biorhythm research.

25

And my paper was contrasting at that time the Soviet

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method of research versus the US method.

method was compartmentalization, separate.

distill things down to the smallest subspecialty and

then push these people into a corner and let them do

this bit of the research.

other people over here and ten other groups over there

and fifteen groups over there, and somewhere all of this

stuff comes together and it gets really sloppy.

It's sloppy because there's a lot of repetition; it's

10

Now, the US
You know,

And then you've got nine

Okay.

very expensive.

11

Now, the Russians, Soviets at the time, they

12

didn't have the money for that kind of research, to

13

spread it out that way, and they used a very different

14

method.

15

fields, even though they didn't seem like they should

16

connect.

17

together to develop science.

18

at the exposures that we had seen earlier, what are the

19

regulatory exposures of electromagnetic fields, the

20

Russians in the '90s and the '80s were a thousand times

21

more stringent than they were in the US.

22

They took experts from all of these different

They put them in the same room to work

Well, why was it?

That's why when you look

Because they had actually

23

made the observations that we hadn't made and actually

24

connected the dots in a way to say, hey, this is

25

dangerous.

That doesn't mean they followed their own

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regulations, because they probably didn't.

whatever was expeditious there.

recognized the physiological responses to

electromagnetic fields and the fact that you could

manipulate it.

They did

But at least they

What was discovered by a guy named Allan Frey,

he was looking at microwaves, and he discovered that

there's this flickering effect, but it only occurred

when you pulse-modulated the signal.

And if you look

10

at -- I heard earlier, it's always scalars.

11

scalars.

12

fields as we think about them.

13

It's not vectors.

It's always

It's not electromagnetic

But if you look at the ones that affect human

14

psychology and physiology, if you look at those signals,

15

they have a very quick rise time and a very fast drop.

16

They're like the punch, like punching that ionosphere to

17

create the ELF.

18

modulations on these other carriers are meant to trigger

19

that effect by you entraining to that pulse, that

20

firing, or some submodulation being carried on a general

21

carrier.

22

It's like those signals.

Those

Now, if you remember the first Gulf War, the

23

first Bush War, and you remember how the Iraqi Army just

24

sort of gave up.

25

just like school children on their first fire drill

The fourth largest Army in the world

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throwing their hands up and surrendering, you know,

thousands of guys to a few dozen.

Now, I speculated on this.

What was that about?


And then it was

Scottish media that later reported on this and said it

was Project Solo, which was a project operated by the

United States.

flying over the country at the time and it was taking

and piggybacking the signal on the radio broadcast going

into the region that were broadcasting the Muslim music

10
11

And what we did is we had this C-130

and prayers.
So all these guys are in their bunkers

12

listening to their favorite radio station.

Unbeknownst

13

to them, the subsignals being played on that broadcast

14

created anxiety, high levels of anxiety and fear.

15

then you watched this Army just collapse under this.

16

And that was kind of the -- in my view, the

And

17

first test of could you really do this, could you do it

18

in this adversarial environment.

19

And one of my friends joked, hey, it's the

20

perfect Republican weapon, right?

You can keep all the

21

hardware in place, but totally wipe out the population.

22

Zbigniew Brzezinski said, in between two ways,

23

it doesn't matter if it's Republicans or Conservatives.

24

They just use different rationale for accomplishing

25

their political ends.

On the conservative side, the

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Neocon side, it might be the fascination with gadgetry

and new technology, as Zbigniew Brzezinski said, and on

the liberal side it might be the idea that we're doing

this for your own good.

And we've all heard that before.

The government is here, right?

The fact of the matter is, when you start

thinking about mind control technologies as a concept,

the idea that someone believes that they can interfere

with your free will, this is something that most

10

religions in the world say God won't even do.

11

think this is their appropriate direction in technology,

12

to interfere with the way consciousness flows.

13

Yet, men

Now, think about for a moment what are the

14

things that -- what is the easiest way to manipulate

15

consciousness?

16

Create an environment of anxiety and fear.

17

happens at that point is you cannot reach your higher

18

states of consciousness.

19

The easiest way, the simplest way.


Because what

If you look at Monroe, rhythmic patterns in the

20

Hemi-Sync as an example, higher states of consciousness

21

are associated with those rhythmic patterns within the

22

brain; not that incoherent scattering of death and

23

information and energy.

24
25

So if you create a certain environment of fear


and anxiety and you look at an EEG monitor and the brain

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activity of an individual, you see it's kind of

scattered in patterns.

higher emotions; love, compassion.

rhythmic patterns.

One person is experiencing


You begin to see

Another simple way of seeing is something that

you can actually measure.

Take two people that are in

love and they -- you know the saying, and I looked into

her eyes, right?

another individual and hold that gaze, you'll begin to

If you actually gaze into the eyes of

10

mirror each other's brain activity in a pretty unique

11

way.

12

long enough.

Two people's breathing begins to

13

synchronize.

Their energy fields begin to synchronize.

Your breathing will even synchronize if you do it

14

And at the same time, their awareness, their

15

intuitions elevate and their rhythmic patterns in the

16

brain can be seen.

17

fear -- think about the advertising you see on

18

television.

19

breath is, you know?

20

uncomfortable.

21

If you can create an environment of

It's all about how you smell, how your


It's all these things to make you

Think about the 6:00 news.

Now, we heard

22

someone talk about the 6:00 news and how that kind of

23

works.

24

people sit down in front of the television set.

25

already fatigued.

You come home from a hard day at work.

Most
They're

They begin to watch the television.

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And then their spouse hollers, it's time for dinner;

it's time for dinner.

right?

they're in a light trance-like state.

How many of you've been there,

Nobody's listening.

No one's hearing.

Because

Now, if you look in a dark room -- the

television is here -- look behind you at the white wall

and look at the flicker rate.

coherent signal within a certain range through the optic

nerves, your brain will lock onto that signal.

If that flicker rate is a

If you

10

monitor the brain activity at that time, you'll drop

11

into this highly-suggestive state and now you listen to

12

the advertising.

13

Now, every school of psychology teaches

14

frequency following response today and that you can

15

create these kinds of effects.

16

advertising?

17

advertising works so well.

18

convincing and compelling.

19

Would they apply in

Of course they would.

That's why

It works because it's

When you look at the 6:00 news, would somebody

20

utilize that in broadcasting the news of the latest

21

propaganda from whatever source it's coming from?

22

would speculate -- today I would speculate and say yes.

23

When you think about how simple it is to create

24

that agitation.

There was a person at Valencia

25

University who published a paper in 1995 talking about

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this whole concept.

could create a complex signal, broadcast it out over a

large area that just created the sense that something's

not right.

And what he said back then was you

Unease.

And then you go watch the 6:00 news and they

indict some specific ethnic group, maybe it's Muslims,

and then a certain amount of that anger gets diverted

that way.

decided on the laser edge of populations, on majorities,

Well, in a day where a lot of things are

10

this is a very, very powerful tool and one quite simple

11

tool to apply in the modern world.

12

When you think about news feeds today, how much

13

is really investigative reporting and how much of it is

14

just spitting out somebody's press release, right?

15

little investigative reporting today because it's

16

expensive, because it's not immediate, and when you look

17

at the news media today, it's almost immediate and most

18

of it is just meant to entertain.

19

inform.

20

Very

It's not meant to

You know, freedom of the press, it used to have

21

something to do with keeping an informed public so we

22

could make good decisions and we could govern as a

23

public.

24

Say whatever you want, say it however you want, but

25

nobody takes responsibility and we have the neutered

Today we debate the media as freedom of speech.

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neutral news.

come on.

And if you really believe it's neutral,

Everybody who assigns a story to a reporter

knows that reporter's biased.

It comes out in the news and what gets published and

what doesn't.

the news?

up.

But no one has really taken it on as a topic and

10
11

The editors have bias.

How many stories about mind control hit

Occasionally.

The economists might pick it

Somebody might pick up a little bit, a piece of it.

consistently pursued it.


Yet, when you think about modern technology and

12

the resolution -- now, we've been talking about things

13

that have happened in the past, and somebody even

14

mentioned this, MK-ULTRA is a program -- you've heard it

15

alluded to.

16

subprojects under it.

17

That was the CIA's program.

It had 144

Most of the records surrounding that were

18

shredded by a guy named Gottlieb, who was responsible

19

for that at the Central Intelligence Agency during the

20

Church Committee hearings.

21

truth back then.

22

this, has become increasingly refined as our technology

23

has advanced.

24
25

We never really got the

But the resolution, the ability to do

When you think about technological advances,


one of the things I read says that technology from the

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invention of the wheel to where we are today, it doubles

about every nine to ten months.

Invention of the wheel to where we are today, ten months

from now we're going to double that, and then we're

going to keep doing that.

Wow.

Think about it.

It used to be every five years in the 1980s,

and it kept shrinking as our computing power increased

and our ability to manipulate large amounts of data

increased.

10

Now, a super computer, think about a super

11

computer.

12

was doing this work, about 280 teraflops a second, which

13

at that time would be like six billion people on the

14

planet with hand calculators doing a calculation every

15

60 seconds for 60 hours to do what that super computer

16

could do in a second.

17

A super computer will do somewhere, when I

Well, the next evolution -- some think it's

18

already here -- are the quantum computers.

19

the quantum computer do?

20

will do what a super computer does in a trillion years.

21

It's back to this analogy of how much EMF do we have out

22

there.

23

What will

A quantum computer in one hour

Well, think about the same kind of

24

amplification and computing power.

25

as a concept.

You look at privacy

It doesn't exist in the world today,

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right?

tracked, whether it's your GPS on your phone, whether

it's your phone conversations -- in the United States,

every piece of mail is photographed for who it went to

and who sent it.

Virtually everything about us is catalogued,

When you think about your telecommunications,

your Internet connections, Google, AT&T, Verizon, all of

them have violated the very essence of what personal

privacy is all about.

10

Because today, in the 21st Century, we need a

11

revolution, an evolution of what privacy is all about.

12

Because you, experiencing the victimization of this

13

technology, are the pinnacle of the abuse.

14

is subject to abuse of personal privacy.

15

But everyone

You used to think about it, it would start and

16

end in our physical doorway in our home.

17

in your home compared to what is in data banks stored on

18

every single human being in this room.

19

It has nothing

Now, people say, oh, don't worry about it.

20

don't have the ability to collect.

21

resolution to look into it.

22

that resolution.

23

computing first will be able to hack through every

24

security code for every system on the planet within

25

hours.

We

We don't have the

Quantum computers will give

Whichever government finds quantum

They'll be able to predict with so much accuracy

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by collecting all that data and analyzing that data, it

will almost seem a spiritual event.

But it will only be accurate up to a certain

point.

And over time that flaw will amplify to where it's big

flaws.

guide our world, to guide our ideas, our philosophy, and

how we pursue the world.

And then there will be a little bit of a flaw.

But we'll rely increasingly on these systems to

The Internet.

What people think about that is

10

the world wide mind of the 21st Century.

11

Public Broadcasting System, did a special called "The

12

World Wide Mind".

13

I say within 20 years or even now -- maybe it already

14

exists now -- but within 20 years that you'll be able to

15

connect the physical minds of all of the people on the

16

planet in a world wide mind.

17

PBS, our

And they say within 100 years -- and

Now, that might appeal to some.

It doesn't

18

really appeal to me from the standpoint of technology.

19

I think we already have that on a certain level.

20

think we already are connected on a certain level.

21

belief systems limit our ability to access that level,

22

but I believe it's here.

23

I
Our

And I've seen enough demonstrations of it.

You

24

know, all those scientists I had in that room for that

25

mind effects conference, the part that really blew me

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away that I didn't expect was what they really centered

on was the idea -- and this was Rosalie Bertell, the nun

and physicist, and she said that the next leap is going

to be the leap where we realize or we recognize or we

remember our extrasensory perceptions, our anonymous

capabilities as human beings and that becomes the next

evolution of the human kind.

8
9

And what suppresses that is fear and anxiety,


because you cannot reach those cases of consciousness as

10

long as you're in fear and anxiety.

And anyone who

11

purports or is a victim of these technologies, do you

12

have anxiety, do you have fear?

13

you have the ability to reach those higher states of

14

consciousness in that condition?

15

not possible.

Of course you do.

Do

It's physiologically

16

So when you think about entire populations,

17

whether it's religion injecting fear or whether it's

18

government injecting fear or as my friend used to say,

19

you know, the king keeps you poor and the church keeps

20

you dumb, kind of was the early idea when you think

21

about how things evolved in Europe several hundred years

22

ago.

23

When you think about modern technology on the

24

backdrop of that concept, what's changed?

25

changed.

It's just the same deal.

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Nothing's

You know, 6,000 wars

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in 4,000 years, most of them over religion; let me give

you a clue, God doesn't need any help killing anybody.

God can probably do it himself or herself.

The fact of the matter is, the idea that people

would just be evil on -- and I think I heard earlier

today that the psychopaths are in the minority.

believe they are.

people, they're out there, but they're not this mass.

Most people do things because they believe they're

I think really evil-to-the-core

10

right, and then they want to impose their rightness on

11

other people.

12

And this is kind of a mistake and then we end

13

up in this conflict between ideas without being fair and

14

recognizing people's right to disagree.

15

said earlier, certain things you can't say in Germany.

16

Certain things you can't say in a movie theater, too.

17

You know, you can't yell fire.

18

sense.

19

And I heard it

Now, it makes good

You don't want to yell fire in a movie theater.


Some would say what we're doing here is yelling

20

fire in a movie theater because we're letting people

21

know what we know, what we've concluded from a good deal

22

of research.

23

You know, my books are written, every page at

24

the bottom of each page are the footnotes.

25

find that distracting.

Some of you

Personally, I want to know where

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the information came from as I'm reading it, not a week

later as I'm contemplating it.

source.

I want to know the

And so in the publications that I've written,

1600 source documents, reviews out of a matrix of a

hundred thousand that we had available to us, more or

less.

have made it into four books on technology dealing with

mind effects, dealing with HAARP, dealing with personal

20,000 have made it into my archives and 1600

10

privacy issues.

11

the last four years.

12

A lot of the things go unreleased in

You can look at my publications from 1999 and

13

2000, and you'll see the same things, because the old

14

literature showed enough to come to those conclusions.

15

When I testified in the European Parliament in

16

the '90s, at their invitation -- and this was another --

17

a good side story for technology.

18

name of Thomas Spencer, he was from the UK, he was a

19

Parliamentarian at the time, and he was the Chairman of

20

the Environmental Subcommittee of the European

21

Parliament.

22

given him the book on HAARP and he was very interested

23

in this.

24

I flew to Brussels and spent a few days with him talking

25

about the issue and brought with me a couple feet of

A gentleman by the

And he had contacted me.

So we had a conversation.

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Somebody had

And at my expense,

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unclassified documents for his research team to take a

look at.

What happened then is he moved in the European

Parliament -- he was a Conservative, by the way, and he

moved into a Foreign Affairs Chairman, a very powerful

position, an ideal position for dealing with the things

that we were dealing with at the time.

8
9

So we -- at his invitation, I came over to


testify in front of the group on security and

10

disarmament in the European Parliament on HAARP and on

11

non-lethal weapons, the kinds of things we've been

12

talking about today, the manipulation of human beings.

13

Now, they do it a lot differently than we do it

14

in the US.

In the US, when you have public hearings,

15

the public actually gets to come.

16

Parliament, the public meeting is you have to have an

17

invitation to come.

18

know, I hadn't really thought much about that.

In the European

So that's kind of different.

You

19

And they also -- they can also do things behind

20

closed doors, which, you know, we theoretically can't do

21

in the United States.

22

the public invited or the media invited.

23

You can't have a meeting without

So what happened the night before the hearing

24

is the Committee met with myself, one of the other

25

people testifying, and a member of the press and we

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spent five and a half hours in a non-official meeting to

talk about these issues, so that when we actually gave

our testimony the following day, they would have

formulated a set of questions to give us the opportunity

to follow along.

because then they at least had a good base of knowledge.

So it was a great way to do it,

Now, in that private meeting we demonstrated a

technology using infrasound where you could transfer

sound through electrodes attached to the skin where you

10

would perceive that proverbial voice in the head.

11

demonstrated that to the Parliamentarians in that closed

12

session.

13

We

And then we went into the hearing the following

14

day.

15

her, testifying on our side.

16

the gentleman's name, but he was from a group called

17

GRIP in Brussels that does research on weapon systems

18

particularly and he had done his Master's thesis on

19

HAARP, and so he was there.

20

And it was Rosalie Bertell, which is where I met


It was -- I can't remember

We had someone from the International Red Cross

21

that had done work on non-lethal weapons and was a

22

specialist in this particular area.

23

there.

24
25

And then I was

We each got 15 minutes to present.

And then I

got an hour of questions from the committee in the open

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hearing where I had the opportunity to talk about some

of these things.

been this incident in Japan where children watching a

cartoon that had a certain flicker rate had caused over

700 children to go to the hospital with epileptic

seizures.

a problem, right?

to go into the hospital.

And right around that time there had

Now, remember, non-ionizing radiation is not


A flicker of the TV caused 700 kids

Now, some say that was by design.

Some say

10

that was by accident.

11

for talking about non-ionizing radiation in the European

12

Parliament because they had all read that story.

13

fresh.

14

But it was a perfect illustration

It was

The other thing demonstrating infrasound,

15

something that had never been demonstrated, to my

16

knowledge, in that type of a meeting, to show that you

17

could actually transfer sound without necessarily

18

involving the ears.

19

Now, there's another technology that was

20

advanced by a guy named Woody Norris -- he won the

21

Lemelson Prize at MIT for this particular technology,

22

and I believe the year was 2004.

23

Norris -- and his was using acoustic heterodyne where he

24

could send in two signals from two different sources,

25

point them at an individual in the crowd, and they would

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You can look up Woody

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hear this voice in their head and nobody else would hear

it.

Well, he won a half a million dollars for that

prize, organized a company called ATCO.

them up.

technology to the military for perimeter protection.

You know, where they could have these sort of alarm

systems so when the protestors got too close they'd hear

these warning signs that nobody else was hearing.

10

They're a public company.

You can look

And he sold that

Now, you think about that for a moment.

11

Imagine -- this is why the European Parliament got

12

interested, because we used this illustration.

13

imagine a national leader standing up in front of a

14

group and all of a sudden they hear voices in their head

15

that nobody else hears.

16

right?

17

what that technology can do.

18

demonstration.

19

Now,

That's the end of that guy,

I mean, he's out of there.

And that's exactly

And that was one

Now, some have said that you can pulse modulate

20

on a single beam and create the same effect or utilize

21

something like HAARP, not so much for voice in the head,

22

but for certainly changing emotional state of large

23

segments of the population.

24
25

When we looked at all of this, we even looked


back -- you know, where else could this have been used?

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And there was a device in Vietnam called the Lida

machine, L-i-d-a.

named Ross Adey, who is, unfortunately, also deceased.

Ross Adey was brilliant and was utilized by the

government, by private sector as an expert in these

kinds of areas.

A guy who researched this was a guy

Well, he was asked to look at -- this

particular device had been captured during the Vietnam

War.

It was a Russian device.

And it created the

10

entrainment effect using flickering light and sound.

11

And they used it for interrogating prisoners by putting

12

them into that, like, trance-like state and then

13

extracting intelligence from them.

14

1960s.

15

Now, that's the

Again, this is low resolution, low technology.


As computing powers increased, as our knowledge

16

in human physiology has increased, as our knowledge of

17

the electromagnetic nature of human beings has

18

increased, the ability to manipulate large segments of

19

the population comes easily achieved, either as a side

20

effect or unfortunate disaster of our technology.

21

You mentioned Swiss Re, Swiss Re Insurance.

22

Swiss Re Insurance wrote a paper on Electrosmog.

23

believe it was 2002.

24

industry then, don't insure electromagnetic field

25

effects because it will result in a bigger lawsuit than

And they said to the insurance

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Firestone on their tires or the smoking industry,

because the knowledge is here and now and nobody insures

that risk.

Lloyd's of London insures anything, but they

won't insure that risk.

Nobody does.

Because insurance

companies don't like to lose money.

that.

before cell phones were invented, the University of

Washington had investigated those very same frequencies

It's as simple as

And yet the telecom industry on cell phones --

10

on chick embryo studies and determined they were

11

harmful.

12

Cell phones didn't exist then.


Then cell phones come out and everything's safe

13

all of a sudden.

14

says, now, wait a minute, we did all this research.

15

This is a dangerous thing.

16

a powerful adversary.

17

That same guy that did that research

So it went to the Congress.

18

There was a guy in Florida.

19

controversy.

20

said, we need a study.

21

pay for the study.

22

study.

23

But the telecom industry is

You remember this.

Brain cancer.

It ended up in the Congress.

Big
Congress

So the industry says, oh, we'll

They spend 25 million dollars on the

I can't remember the guy's name who did it, but

24

he eventually published a book because his findings

25

were, hey, this is dangerous.

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All right.

He issues his

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report.

they got the 25 million into his queue.

it all on these projects.

himself.

5
6

They figured, hey, they got him.

You know,
He got to spend

He got to make some money

Hey, he's our man.


Well, he wasn't.

This guy actually had some

integrity, and I apologize for not recalling his name.

A VOICE:

DR. BEGICH:

A VOICE:

10

George Carlo.
Which one is it?

George Carlo.

DR. BEGICH:

George Carlo, that's correct.

And

11

he wrote a book called, "Cell Phones", a very important

12

book.

13

And when it comes to children, one of his

14

observations was -- he had the simple observation of

15

damage to skulls.

16

five-year-old, 400 percent more energy transfers to the

17

skull into the brain than an adult.

18

twelve-year-old, approximately 200 percent.

19

You know, you have a four-year-old, a

Ten-year-old,

This is one of the main reasons why you don't

20

want children using cell phones or, even worse, the

21

portable phone in the home because it's even less

22

efficient with the battery and the energy with even more

23

leakage.

24

phone today where you actually pick it up and talk into

25

it.

And what do we do?

Try and find a hard line

You can't even find them anymore.

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They're almost

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impossible to find.

When you look at what we have learned about

human physiology and the effects of electromagnetic

fields on the human physiology, it is the revolution in

science that will collapse the pharmacuetical industry

one day.

recognize that the pea in the soup of electromagnetic

radiation has been the cause and the root to most of the

chronic disease we see on the planet today.

10

And one day we're going to wake up and

When you combine that with that concept that I

11

used, that example of iodine, everyone has a little bit,

12

now you have these complex interactions, 5,000 new

13

chemicals are introduced or compounds introduced to the

14

public every year without really any serious studies,

15

and then you add this on top of it, and now you have a

16

very toxic world.

17

manipulation from the propaganda of World War II to the

18

downloading of that.

19

achieve?

20

personnel with a download.

Blap.

21

years' worth of education.

Now, let's go on.

22

And then you take the technology of

What does the military hope to

They want to be able to train military

And now here's the thing.

23

kind of education.

24

programming.

25

thinking involved.

There's your 12

Think about that

No critical thinking involved.

It's like writing to a disk.


Who controls that?

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Just

No critical

Curriculum

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controls the way in which our society goes.

risk.

This is the

What about evidence in courtrooms when you can

create a synthetic memory or wipe one out?

that do to a Democratic Republic or a Democracy where

people have the power?

us as we become increasingly transparent to governmental

agencies and they become increasingly opaque.

What does

That power has been taken from

It is the opposite of what should be occurring.

10

There shouldn't be a camera in every household.

11

should be a camera in every government office.

12

the technology's there.

13

and look at what our employees are doing, right?

14

Wouldn't you like to be able to dial up your

15

Congressional office and see that conversation they're

16

having in real time?

17

that?

18

There
Because

We should be able to dial in

And why shouldn't we be able to do

What do they have to hide?


You know, you think about government and you

19

start saying that and, you know, the only people

20

protected from that kind of intrusion in the US are

21

federal employees.

22

protection than the average citizen within the country

23

that I live in.

24
25

They have a higher level of

For what?

And when you think about government, everyone


points to the politician.

I can tell you, most

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politicians are ignorant.

parties in the United States the preference is to have

people that are -- they look like the news announcer,

but they couldn't think their way out of a phone booth,

right?

they couldn't think their way out of one.

want people that are smart enough to look good, but not

smart enough to think on their own.

politician for political parties, because they can be

10

In fact, most political

We don't even have a phone booth anymore, but


Because they

That's the ideal

told what to do.

11

Look at how much money is being spent in

12

political outcomes.

13

have pointed and looked at, like, Australia to mandatory

14

voting.

15

Huge amounts of money.

Some people

Everybody votes now.


Worst possible thing that you could ever do.

16

And here's why:

17

pulls the lever?

18

maybe 20 percent of the population votes, but at least

19

they're informed.

20

When the population doesn't vote, who


Those that are informed, right?

So

They've educated themselves.

If you force people to vote to keep their

21

driver's license, their medical benefits, or whatever

22

social programs you've got running and you say, you will

23

vote, now who decides what they vote on?

24

buy the 30-second or one-minute ad on TV that influences

25

them.

Whoever can

The moment they walk into the booth, they go, ah,

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and pull the lever.

A very dangerous situation.

Now we have a dangerous situation.

Democracy is something that each of us have to

claim internally.

The change that people are looking

for in this group happens by a change in consciousness,

by us recognizing what we are as human beings,

recognizing the potential that we have.

know what these government programs yielded?

points to the fear side of the equation.

Because you
Everybody

But what they

10

really discovered was that every single soul, every

11

human being has this anomalous capability.

12

Now, imagine if we could awaken those

13

capabilities, could you hide anything?

14

people could literally look into the mind of another

15

person, that makes a politician pretty vulnerable,

16

wouldn't it?

17

I mean, if

That is the next evolution that I believe is

18

happening and it's the only evolution, the only

19

revolution that can change the way things are.

20

starts with human consciousness.

21

believe to be right and true and beginning to act on it.

22

Not from a foundation of fear, but a foundation of

23

confidence.

24
25

It

It starts with what we

You know, somebody asked me once, what do you


think about faith?

I said, faith is what you know to be

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right and true and you step into it on the idea that you

can achieve it.

You believe it.

So many people I've seen in this work, they

keep jumping into things beyond their belief.

don't believe they can achieve it.

and they fail, and they keep failing.

are doing good work otherwise step back, do what you can

do with confidence, do what you can do with knowledge,

don't wait for a group to form.

They try it anyway


And people who

The group's already

10

here.

It's called the human race.

11

to be right and true.

12

up, learn from it, and move forward.

13

They

Act on what you know

If you make a mistake, clean it

When you look across this room and you look at

14

all these folks with a little bit of gray hair, and

15

you've got the gray hair not by all of those great

16

things that happened in your life, but by the real

17

disasters that happened in your life.

18

think about bad news is a stimulation for good news.

19

You know, you

People ask me, you know your father's

20

disappearance, disappeared off the face of the earth,

21

that must have been a horrible thing.

22

the time.

23

life because it altered my course.

24
25

Yeah, it was at

I consider it the most important event in my

The worst things in our lives alter our course,


change our direction, activate that higher potential

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that cause us to rise out of the ashes of our apathy and

our defeats and stand on our feet again and move

forward.

The pain that people experience today is the

catalyst for the solutions tomorrow, whether we like it

or not, whether it's falling down as a two-year-old or

standing up as an adult.

our ethics, on the basis of our values, and we

reinvigorate and let go of the fear and recognize what

If we stand up on the basis of

10

we are as creative beings, we have the potential to make

11

change.

12

And with that, I'll open it to questions.

13

(Applause.)

14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25

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THE ADVANCED MEDIA GROUP

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THE ADVANCED MEDIA GROUP

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JOINT HEARING
BEFORE THE

SELECT COMMITTEE ON
INTELLIGENCE
AND THE

SUBCOMMITTEE ON
HEALTH AND SCIENTIFIC
RESEARCH
OF THE

COMMITTEE ON HUMAN
RESOURCES
UNITED STATES SENATE
NINETY-FIFTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
____________
AUGUST 3, 1977

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Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Intelligence


and Committee on Human Resources
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
WASHINGTON: 1977
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing
Office
Washington, D.C. 20402
Stock No. 052-070-04357-1

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SENATE SELECT COMMITTEE


ON INTELLIGENCE
(Established by S. Res. 400, 94th Cong., 2d sess.)
DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii, Chairman
BARRY GOLDWATER, Arizona, Vice Chairman
BIRCH BAYH, Indiana
ADLAI E. STEVENSON, Illinois
WILLIAM D. HATHAWAY, Maine
WALTER D. HUDDLESTON, Kentucky
JOSEPH R. BIDEN, JR., Delaware
ROBERT MORGAN, North Carolina
GARY HART, Colorado
DANIEL PATRICK MOYNIHAN, New York
CLIFFORD P. CASE, New Jersey
JAKE GARN, Utah
CHARLES McC. MATHIAS, JR., Maryland
JAMES B. PEARSON, Kansas
JOHN H. CHAFE, Rhode Island
RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana
MALCOLM WALLOP, Wyoming
ROBERT C. BYRD, West Virginia, Ex Officio Member
HOWARD H. BAKER, JR., Tennessee, Ex Officio Member
WILLIAM G. MILLER, Staff Director
EARL D. EISENHOWER, Minority Staff Director
AUDREY H. HATRY, Chief Clerk

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COMMITTEE ON HUMAN RESOURCES


HARRISON A. WILLIAMS, JR., New Jersey, Chairman
JENNINGS RANDOLPH, West Virginia
CLAIBORNE PELL, Rhode Island
EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts
GAYLORD NELSON, Wisconsin
THOMAS F. EAGLETON, Missouri
ALAN CRANSTON, California
WILLIAM D. HATHAWAY, Maine
DONALD W. RIEGLE, JR., Michigan
JACOB K. JAVITS, New York
RICHARD S. SCHWEIKER, Pennsylvania
ROBERT T. STAFFORD, Vermont
ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah
JOHN H. CHAFEE, Rhode Island
S.I. HAYAKAWA, California
STEPHEN J. PARADISE, General Counsel and Staff Director
MARJORIE M. WHITTAKER, Chief Clerk
DON A. ZIMMERMAN, Minority Counsel

SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH AND SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH


EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts, Chairman
CLAIBORNE PELL, Rhode Island
GAYLORD NELSON, Wisconsin
WILLIAM D. HATHAWAY, Maine
HARRISON A. WILLIAMS, JR., New Jersey
(ex officio)
RICHARD S. SCHWEIKER, Pennsylvania
JACOB K. JAVITS, New York
JOHN H. CHAFEE, Rhode Island
LAWRENCE HOROWITZ, Professional Staff Member
DAVID WINSTON, Minority Counsel
(II)
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Prepared Statement of Admiral Stansfield Turner, Director of


Central Intelligence
Mr. Chairman: In my letter to you of July 15, 1977, I reported our recent discovery of seven boxes
of documents related to Project MKULTRA, a closely held CIA project conducted from 19531964. As you may recall, MKULTRA was an "umbrella project" under which certain sensitive
subprojects were funded, involving among other things research on drugs and behavioral
modification. During the Rockefeller Commission and Church Committee investigations in 1975,
the cryptonym became publicly known when details of the drug-related death of Dr. Frank Olsen
were publicized. In 1953 Dr. Olsen, a civilian employee of the Army at Fort Detrick, leaped to his
death from a hotel room window in New York City about a week after having unwittingly
consumed LSD administered to him as an experiment at a meeting of LSD researchers called by
CIA.
Most of what was known about the Agency's involvement with behavioral drugs during the
investigations in 1975 was contained in a report on Project MKULTRA prepared by the Inspector
General's office in 1963. As a result of that report's recommendations, unwitting testing of drugs
on U.S. citizens was subsequently discontinued. The MKULTRA-related report was made
available to the Church Committee investigators and to the staff of Senator Kennedy's
Subcommittee on Health. Until the recent discovery, it was believed that all of the MKULTRA
files dealing with behavioral modification had been destroyed in 1973 on the orders of the then
retiring Chief of the Office of Technical Service, with the authorization of the DCI, as has been
previously reported. Almost all of the people who had had any connection with the aspects of the
project which interested Senate investigators in 1975 were no longer with the Agency at that time.
Thus, there was little detailed knowledge of the MKULTRA subprojects available to CIA during
the Church Committee investigations. This lack of available details, moreover, was probably not
wholly attributable to the

-5destruction of MKULTRA files in 1973; the 1963 report on MKULTRA by the Inspector General
notes on page 14: "Present practice is to maintain no records of the planning and approval of test
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programs."
When I reported to you last on this matter, my staff had not yet had an opportunity to review the
newly located material in depth. This has now been accomplished, and I am in a position to give
you a description of the contents of the recovered material. I believe you will be most interested in
the following aspects of the recent discovery:
How the material was discovered and why it was not previously found;
The nature of this recently located material;
How much new information there is in the material which may not have been previously
known and reported to Senate investigators; and
What we believe the most significant aspects of this find to be.
To begin, as to how we discovered these materials. The material had been sent to our Retired
Records Center outside of Washington and was discovered sent to our Retired Records Center
outside of Washington and was discovered there as a result of the extensive search efforts of an
employee charged with responsibility for maintaining our holdings on behavioral drugs and for
responding to Freedom of Information Act requests on this subject. During the Church Committee
investigation in 1975, searches for MKULTRA-related material were made by examining both the
active and retired records of all branches of CIA considered at all likely to have had association
with MKULTRA documents. The retired records of the Budget and Fiscal Section of the Branch
responsible for such work were not searched, however. This was because financial papers
associated with sensitive projects such s MKULTRA were normally maintained by the Branch
itself under the project file, not by the Budget and Fiscal Section. In the case at hand, however,
the newly located material was sent to the Retired Records Center in 1970 by the Budget and
Fiscal Section as part of its own retired holdings. The reason for this departure from normal
procedure is not known. As a result of it, however, the material escaped retrieval and destruction
in 1973 by the then-retiring Director of the Office as well as discovery in 1975 by CIA officials
responding to Senate investigators.
The employee who located this material did so by leaving no stone unturned in his efforts to
respond to FOIA requests. He reviewed all listings of material of this Branch stored at the Retired
Records Center, including those of the Budget and Fiscal Section and, thus, discovered the
MKULTRA-related documents which had been missed in the previous searches. In sum, the
Agency failed to uncover these particular documents in 1973 in the process of attempting to
destroy them; it similarly failed to locate them in 1975 in response to the Church Committee
hearings. I am convinced that there was no attempt to conceal this material during the earlier
searches.
Next, as to the nature of the recently located material, it is important to realize that the recovered
folders are finance folders. The bulk of the material in them consists of approvals for advance of
funds, vouchers, accountings, and the like -- most of which are not very informative as to the
nature of the activities that were undertaken. Occasional project proposals or memoranda
commenting on some aspect of a subproject are scattered throughout this material. In general,
however, the recovered material does not include status reports or other documents relating to
operational considerations or progress in the various subprojects, though some elaboration of the
activities contemplated does appear. The recovered documents fall roughly into three categories:
First, there are 149 MKULTRA subprojects, many of which appear to have some connection
with research into behavioral modification, drug acquisition and testing or administering drugs
surreptitiously.
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Second, there are two boxes of miscellaneous MKULTRA papers, including audit reports and
financial statements from "cut-out" (i.e., intermediary) funding mechanisms used to conceal CIA's
sponsorship of various research projects.
Finally, there are 33 additional subprojects concerning certain intelligence activities previously
funded under MKULTRA which have nothing to do either with behavioral modification, drugs,
and toxins or with any other related matters.
We have attempted to group the activities covered by the 149 subprojects into categories under
descriptive headings. In broad outline, at least, this presents the contents of these files. The
activities are placed in the following 15 categories:

-61. Research into the effects of behavioral drugs and/or alcohol:


17 subprojects probably not involving human testing;
14 subprojects definitely involving tests on human volunteers;
19 subprojects probably including tests on human volunteers. While not known, some of these
subprojects may have included tests on unwitting subjects as well;
6 subprojects involving tests on unwitting subjects.
2. Research on hypnosis: 8 subprojects, including 2 involving hypnosis and drugs in combination.
3. Acquisition of chemicals or drugs: 7 subprojects.
4. Aspects of magicians' art useful in covert operations: e.g., surreptitious delivery of drug-related
materials: 4 subprojects.
5. Studies of human behavior, sleep research, and behavioral changes during psychotherapy: 9
subprojects.
6. Library searches and attendance at seminars and international conferences on behavioral
modification: 6 subprojects.
7. Motivational studies, studies of defectors, assessment, and training techniques: 23 subprojects.
8. Polygraph research: 3 subprojects.
9. Funding mechanisms for MKULTRA external research activities: 3 subprojects.
10. Research on drugs, toxins, and biologicals in human tissue; provision of exotic pathogens and
the capability to incorporate them in effective delivery systems: 6 subprojects.
11. Activities whose objectives cannot be determined from available documentation: 3

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subprojects.
12. Subprojects involving funding support for unspecified activities connected with the Army's
Special Operations Division at Fr. Detrick, Md. This activity is outline in Book I of the Church
Committee Report, pp. 388-389. (See Appendix A, pp. 68-69.) Under CIA's Project MKNAOMI,
the Army Assisted CIA in developing, testing, and maintaining biological agents and delivery
systems for use against humans as well as against animals and crops. The objectives of these
subprojects cannot be identified from the recovered material beyond the fact that the money was
to be used where normal funding channels would require more written or oral justification than
appeared desirable for security reasons or where operational considerations dictated short lead
times for purchases. About $11,000 was involved during this period 1953-1960: 3 subprojects.
13. Single subprojects in such areas as effects of electro-shock, harassment techniques for
offensive use, analysis of extrasensory perception, gas propelled sprays and aerosols, and four
subprojects involving crop and material sabotage.
14. One or two subprojects on each of the following:
"Blood Grouping" research, controlling the activity of animals, energy storage and transfer in
organic systems; and
stimulus and response in biological systems.
15. Three subprojects canceled before any work was done on them having to do with laboratory
drug screening, research on brain concussion, and research on biologically active materials to be
tested through the skin on human volunteers.
Now, as to how much new the recovered material adds to what has previously been reported to
the Church Committee and to Senator Kennedy's Subcommittee on Health on these topics, the
answer is additional detail, for the most part: e.g., the names of previously unidentified
researchers and institutions associated on either a witting or unwitting basis with MKULTRA
activities, and the names of CIA officials who approved or monitored the various subprojects.
Some new substantive material is also present: e.g., details concerning proposals for
experimentation and clinical testing associated with various research projects, and a possibly
improper contribution by CIA to a private institution. However, the principal types of activities
included have, for the most part, either been outlined to some extent or generally described in
what was previously available to CIA in the way of documentation and was supplied by CIA to
Senate investigators. For example:
Financial disbursement records for the period 1960-1964 for 76 of the 149 numbered MKULTRA
subprojects had been recovered from the Office of Finance by CIA and were made available to the
Church Committee investigators in August or September 1975.
The 1963 Inspector General report on MKULTRA made available to both the Church Committee
and Senator Kennedy's Subcommittee mentions electro-shock

-7and harassment substances (pp. 4, 16); covert testing on unwitting U.S. citizens (pp. 7, 10-12); the

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search for new materials through arrangements with specialists in universities, pharmaceutical
houses, hospitals, state and federal institutions, and private research organizations (pp. 7, 9); and
the fact that the Technical Service Division of CIA had initiated 144 subprojects related to the
control of human behavior between 1953-1963 (p. 21).
The relevant section of a 1957 Inspector General report on the Technical Service Division was
also made available to the Church Committee staff. That report discusses techniques for human
assessment and unorthodox methods of communication (p. 201); discrediting and disabling
materials which can be covertly administered (pp. 201-202); studies on magicians' arts as applied
to covert operations (p. 202); specific funding mechanisms for research performed outside of CIA
(pp. 202-203, 205); research being done on "K" (knockout) material, alcohol tolerance, and
hypnotism (p. 203); research on LSD (p. 204); anti-personnel harassment and assassination
delivery systems including aerosol generators and other spray devices (pp. 206-208); the role of
Fort Detrick in support of CIA's Biological/Chemical Warfare capability (p. 208); and material
sabotage research (p. 209). Much of this material is reflected in the Church Committee Report,
Book I, pp. 385-422. (See Appendix A, pp. 65-102).
The most significant new data discovered are, first, the names of researchers and institutions who
participated in the MKULTRA project and, secondly, a possibly improper contribution by CIA to
a private institution. We are now in possession of the names of 185 non-government researchers
and assistants who are identified in the recovered material dealing with the 149 subprojects. The
names of 80 institutions where work was done or with which these people were affiliated are also
mentioned.
The institutions include 44 colleges or universities, 15 research foundations or chemical or
pharmaceutical companies and the like, 12 hospitals or clinics (in addition to those associated
with universities), and 3 penal institutions. While the identities of some of these people and
institutions were known previously, the discovery of the new identities adds to our knowledge of
MKULTRA.
The facts as they pertain to the possibly improper contribution are as follows: One project
involves a contribution of $375,000 to a building fund of a private medical institution. The fact
that a contribution was made was previously known; indeed it was mentioned in a 1957 Inspector
General report on the Technical Service Division of CIA, pertinent portions of which had been
reviewed by the Church Committee staff. The newly discovered material, however, makes it clear
that this contribution was made through an intermediary, which made it appear to be a private
donation. As a private donation, the contribution was then matched by federal funds. The
institution was not made aware of the true source of the gift. This project was approved by the
then DCI, and concurred in by CIA's top management at the time, including the then General
Counsel who wrote an opinion supporting the legality of the contribution.
The recently discovered documents give a greater insight into the scope of the unwitting drug
testing but contribute little more than that. We now have collaborating information that some of
the unwitting drug testing was carried on in safehouses in San Francisco and New York City, and
we have identified that three individuals were involved in this undertaking as opposed to the
previously reported one person. We also know now that some unwitting testing took place on
criminal sexual psychopaths confined at a State hospital and that, additionally, research was done
on knock-out or "K" drug in parallel with research to develop pain killers for cancer patients.
These, then are the principal findings identified to date in our review of the recovered material. As
noted earlier, we believe the detail on the identities of researchers and institutions involved in
CIA's sponsorship of drugs and behavioral modification is a new element and one which poses a
considerable problem. Most of the people and institutions involved are not aware of Agency
sponsorship. We should certainly assume that the researchers and institutions which cooperate
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with CIA on a witting basis acted in good faith and in the belief that they were aiding their
government in a legitimate and proper purpose. I believe we all have a moral obligation to these
researchers and institutions to protect them from any unjustified embarrassment or damage to
their reputations which revelation of their identities might bring. In addition, I have a legal
obligation under the Privacy Act not to publicly disclose the names of the individual researchers
without their consent. This is especially true, of course, for

-8those researchers and institutions which were unwitting participants in CIA-sponsored activities.
Nevertheless, recognizing the right and the need of both the Senate Select Committee on
Intelligence and the Senate Subcommittee on Health to investigate the circumstances of these
activities in whatever detail they consider necessary. I am providing your Committee with all of
the names on a classified basis. I hope that this will facilitate your investigation while protecting
the individuals and institutions involved. Let me emphasize that the MKULTRA events are 12 to
25 years in the past. I assure you that the CIA is in no way engaged in either witting or unwitting
testing of drugs today.
Finally, I am working closely with the Attorney General and with the Secretary of Health,
Education and Welfare on this matter. We are making available to the Attorney General whatever
materials he may deem necessary to any investigation he may elect to undertake. We are working
with both the Attorney General and the Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare to determine
whether it is practicable from this new evidence to attempt to identify any of the persons to whom
drugs may have been administered unwittingly. No such names are part of these records, but we
are working to determine if there are adequate clues to lead to their identification; and if so, how
to go about fulfilling the Government's responsibilities in the matter.

Next: Testimony of CIA Director Stansfield Turner


Previous: Opening Remarks

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Testimony of Philip Goldman, Former Employee, Central


Intelligence Agency
Mr. GOLDMAN. I am Philip Goldman.
Senator INOUYE. And you are a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Over 10 years ago.
Senator INOUYE. And you were employed at the time when MKULTRA was in operation?
Mr. GOLDMAN. There were some MKULTRA's in operation at the time I was there.

-51Senator INOUYE. And Mr. John Gittinger, are you a former employee of the Central
Intelligence Agency?

Testimony of John Gittinger, Former Employee, Central


Intelligence Agency
Mr. GITTINGER. I am.
Senator INOUYE. Are you still an employee?
Mr. GITTINGER. No.

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Senator INOUYE. Were you a member of the Agency at the time MKULTRA was in
operation?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.
Senator INOUYE. Thank you. Senator Kennedy.
Senator KENNEDY. I want to welcome both of you to the committee. If we could start with
Mr. Goldman. Were you the project engineer for the safe houses in either San Francisco or
New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I know of no safe house in San Francisco.
Senator KENNEDY. How about in New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I knew of one facility that was established there, but I didn't know anything
of its operation.
Senator KENNEDY. Were you a monitor on any testing of drugs on unwitting persons in San
Francisco?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, we have a classified document here that was provided by the
Agency that lists your name as a monitor of the program and I would appreciate it if you
would look-Mr. GOLDMAN. I think the misunderstanding arises because I was project officer.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, would you take a look at that?
[Mr. Goldman inspected the document.]
Mr. GOLDMAN. This document as it states is correct. However, my-Senator KENNEDY. That document is correct?
Mr. GOLDMAN. As far as I see on the first page, the project. But my-Senator KENNEDY. Well, could I get it back, please.
That would indicate that you were a monitor of the program.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I was in charge of disbursing the moneys to Morgan Hall.
Senator KENNEDY. To whom was that?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To the individual whose name was listed at the top of that document.
Senator KENNEDY. And you knew that he was running the project in San Francisco?

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Mr. GOLDMAN. I knew he was the person who was in charge out there.
Senator KENNEDY. All right.
Mr. GOLDMAN. But I had no knowledge nor did I seek knowledge of actually what he was
doing, because there would be other things involved.
I did receive-Senator KENNEDY. What were you doing?

-52Mr. GOLDMAN. I was collecting -- I had to be sure that all the receipts that ever were turned
in balanced with the moneys that were paid out to see that everything was run all right. There
was no illegal use of funds as far as we could determine by the receipts and cash.
Senator KENNEDY. So even though the Agency document indicates that you were a monitor
for the program, one of the few monitors of that particular program which you mentioned for
San Francisco and Mill Valley, Calif., you described your responsibility only as a carrier of
money, is that correct?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I would say as a disburser or carrying out -- seeing that the moneys were
handled properly. There was within that -- I don't know what's done or what he did do in
conjunction with other people.
Senator KENNEDY. Were you responsible for the disbursement of all the funds?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I was responsible for turning over the check to him.
Senator KENNEDY. And what did you know of the program itself?
Mr. GOLDMAN. The only thing I knew of the program was what he furnished us in terms of
receipts and that sort of thing. I didn't indulge or concern myself in that.
Senator KENNEDY. You still wrote, and I'll let you examine it -- it's a classified document -but you wrote a rather substantive review of the program in May of 1963, talking about the
experiments, the factual data that had been collected, covert and realistic field trials, about the
necessity of those particular -- and talked about the effectiveness of the various programs, the
efficiency of various delivery systems. That doesn't sound to me like someone who is only-Mr. GOLDMAN. Well, if you would refresh my memory, if I could read this I would
certainly agree with whatever is said there, if it was written.
Senator KENNEDY. I am trying to gather what your role was. You've indicated first of all
that you didn't know about -- you knew about a safe house in New York; now we find out that
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you're the carrier for the resources as well and the agent in San Francisco. We find out now
that the CIA put you as a monitor. You're testifying that you only were the courier, and here
we have just one document, and there are many others that talk about the substance of that
program with your name on it and I am just trying to find out exactly what role you were
playing.
Mr. GOLDMAN. The only thing I can tell you about this and I am drawing completely on
my memory is that this individual who was in charge out there conducted these things and
reported them back to the Agency. I didn't participate in any of them. All I know was that he
furnished me with receipts for things that were done and told of the work that they had done.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that document covers more than receipts.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, it tells of what -- they had conducted work out there.
Senator KENNEDY. It describes, does it not? Read the paragraph 2.
Mr. GOLDMAN. "A number of covert"-Senator KENNEDY. Well, you can't read it, it's a classified document, and I don't know why,
quite frankly, but it relates to the substance

-53of those programs and your name is signed to the memorandums on it. I am not interested in
you trying to review for us now what is in the document, but I think it would be unfortunate if
we were left with the opinion that all you were was a courier of resources when we see a
document with your name on it, signed, that talks about the substance of the program. And
what we're interested in is the substance of the program. We have the recent documents that
were provided by the Agency, which do indicate that you were at least involved in the
substance, and I'm just trying to find out whether you're willing to tell us about that.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I am perfectly willing to tell you everything that I can remember.
Senator KENNEDY. But you can't remember anything.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I can't remember the substantive parts of these, things, I really can't.
Senator KENNEDY. Of the program that was taking place.
Do you have any greater familiarity with what was happening in New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, no.
Senator KENNEDY. And you have the same function with regards to New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. The same function with regard to New York.
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Senator KENNEDY. Did you ever go to San Francisco?


Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. Did you meet with the agent in charge?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And why did you meet with him?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To discuss some of the receipts and things that were there to find out if
these were indeed true expenditures and to find out if everything was going along all right for
the work that was being done.
Senator KENNEDY. What work was being done?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, the reports of these things and whatever was being done. I don't know
who he reported to but he did report to somebody.
Senator KENNEDY. You travel out there to find out about the work that's being done, and
what does he tell you, that the work is being done well and-Mr. GOLDMAN. He told me that the work that they were doing was going along,
progressing satisfactorily, but to be very frank with you-Senator KENNEDY. But he didn't tell you what the work was?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To be very frank with you, Senator, I cannot remember the things that
happened back in those days. I've been away from the company -- from the Agency for over
10 years, and that is even farther back than that, and that was just about the time when I first
engaged in this, so it was my first-Senator KENNEDY. Did they disburse a series of $100 checks, to your recollection?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I don't recollect it, but if you have it there, then they did.
Senator KENNEDY. Did you know Dr. Gottlieb?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.

-54Senator KENNEDY. How did you know Dr. Gottlieb?


Mr. GOLDMAN. He had been head of the division when I was recruited.

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Senator KENNEDY. Did you talk to him about these programs? Did you have anything to do
with him during this period of time?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't have anything to do with him until I would say probably in the
sixties.
Senator KENNEDY. And can you tell us what you had to do with him then?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Just what you see there, on the papers.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that is the request for the money and he approves it.
Mr. GOLDMAN. That is the request for money and he approves it, and I am quite sure that I
probably discussed with him whether the work was going along all right, whether his reports
were being turned in, and whether he was satisfied with the way things were going and did he
have any complaints about the way other people were requesting him, but I did not engage
myself in anything he was doing.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, did you get the impression that Gottlieb knew what was going
on?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't ask.
Senator KENNEDY. But you told him that your impression that what was going on even
though you didn't know what was going on, was going on well, I guess? [Laughter.]
Mr. GOLDMAN. I told Gottlieb what you saw in there was that the things appeared to be
going along all right. I was repeating and parroting back the words that were given to me
while I was there.
Senator KENNEDY. What was the money being spent for, do you know?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No; I can't recall that, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Would you remember if we told you it was red curtains and can-can
pictures-Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Floral pictures and the rest.
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Recorders.
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Recorders and two-way mirrors.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Wait, hold on. You're slipping a word in there now.

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Senator KENNEDY. But you would have authorized those funds, would you not, since you
were the-Mr. GOLDMAN. Did you say two-way mirrors?
Senator KENNEDY. Yes.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Where?
Senator KENNEDY. In the safe houses.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Where?
Senator KENNEDY. San Francisco.
Mr. GOLDMAN. No.
Senator KENNEDY. How about New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. You remember now that you approved expenditures for New York?

-55Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.


Senator KENNEDY. What were those expenditures for?
Mr. GOLDMAN. That was a transfer of money over for the use in an apartment in New York
by the Bureau of Narcotics. It was for their use.
Senator KENNEDY. Do you have any knowledge of what was going on in the apartment?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir, other than I know that it had been used, according to the
information that I have been given, it was used by the Bureau of Narcotics to make meetings
with individuals who they were interested in with regard to pushing dope -- not pushing dope,
but selling narcotics and that sort of thing.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, I am sure you had many responsibilities and it's a long time ago,
but the Agency does indicate that you were project monitor for that particular program.
Mr. GOLDMAN. That's correct.
Senator KENNEDY. Your own testimony indicates you went out to review the expenditures
of funds to find out whether they were being wisely used, that you came back and talked to the
project director, Mr. Gottlieb, to give him a progress report about what was going on out there.
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Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir, I did.


Senator KENNEDY. All those things are true, and yet you draw a complete blank in terms of
what was the project itself. That's where the record is now.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I did not go out there to review the projects nor did I come back and talk
with Mr. Gottlieb and review what I had observed in terms of any projects that they -- that is,
other parts of the Agency might have in operation there. I simply reported back those things
which were told to me by the individual out there who -- and I carried them back and they -are contained in the report that you have in front of you, word for word, just as it was given to
me.
Senator KENNEDY. The report that you examined here is a substantive report on the
particular program and project. And I don't think anyone who wasn't familiar with the project - this is a personal evaluation -- could write a report on the substance of it without knowing
about it. Now, that's mine. Maybe you can't remember and recollect, and that's-Mr. GOLDMAN. No; everything I put down in there is things that I was told while I was out
there, and if there was any ancillary information involved in there I can tell you I just don't
remember that. I really don't.
At the time -- that was some years ago. At the time -- a lot of time has passed since then and I
have made quite sure that if I could recollect it at all, I would do it. If you have some papers
and you want me to certify whether yes, this is so or that is so, I can do that, but I can't recall it
mentally.
Senator KENNEDY. You just certified the principal. There are others up here.
I would like to go to Dr. Gittinger.
Mr. GITTINGER. It's Mr. Gittinger.
Senator KENNEDY. How long did you serve with the Agency?

-56Mr. GITTINGER. Twenty-six years.


Senator KENNEDY. Excuse me?
Mr. GITTINGER. Twenty-six years.
Senator KENNEDY. Twenty-six years.
And at some point you moved into the operational support side, is that correct?

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Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.


Senator KENNEDY. And did you know Sidney Gottlieb?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. And did he inform you about the research projects involving LSD?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. It is my understanding that you were also aware of some of the drug
testing projects conducted on unwitting subjects on the west coast using the Bureau of
Narcotics people in the operation. Is that true?
Mr. GITTINGER. I was.
Senator INOUYE. Excuse me. Would you speak into the microphone? I cannot hear you.
Mr. GITTINGER. Sorry.
Senator KENNEDY. Do you know which drugs were involved in those tests?
Mr. GITTINGER. LSD. And I can't remember for sure much of the others. What is the
substance of marihuana, cannabis, is that right, that can be delivered by other than smoking?
Senator KENNEDY. Cannabis?
Mr. GITTINGER. There had been some discussion of that; yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And was heroin also used?
Mr. GITTINGER. Heroin used by CIA?
Senator KENNEDY. No. In the west coast operation.
Mr. GITTINGER. Absolutely not.
Senator KENNEDY. Now, to your knowledge, how were the drugs administered to the
unwitting subjects?
Mr. GITTINGER. I have no direct knowledge.
Senator KENNEDY. Why did you go to the safe houses?
Mr. GITTINGER. It's a very complicated story. Just in justification of myself, this came up
just, day before yesterday. I have not really had enough time to get it all straightened in my
mind, so I ramble.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, you take your time and tell us in your own words. We've got
some time here.

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Mr. GITTINGER. My responsibilities which would involve any of the period of time that
you were talking about really was not directly related to drugs at all. I was a psychologist
charged with the responsibility of trying to develop as much information as I could on various
cultures, overseas cultures, anthropological type data, if you follow what I mean. I was also
engaged in trying to work out ways and means of assessing people and understanding people.
I originally became involved in this through working on Chinese culture, and over a series of
time I was introduced to the problem of brainwashing, which is the thing that really was the
most compelling thing in relationship to this, and became charged with the responsibility of
trying to find out a little bit about interrogation techniques.

-57And among other things, we decided or I decided that one of the best sources of interrogation
techniques would be trying to locate and interview and become involved with experienced
police interrogators in the country and experienced people who had real practical knowledge
of interrogation. The reason for this is that we had become pretty well convinced after the
experience of the brainwashing problems coming out of China, that it was the techniques of
the interrogators that were causing the individuals to make confessions and so forth in
relationship to this, rather than any kind of drugging and so forth. So we were very much
interested in interrogation techniques, and this led to me being introduced to the agent in the
west coast, and I began to talk to him in connection with these interrogation techniques.
Senator KENNEDY. OK. Now, that is the agent that ran the tests on the west coast on the
unwitting people. That's where you come in, correct?
Mr. GITTINGER. If I understand -- would you say that again?
Senator KENNEDY. The name Morgan Hall has been -- that is the name that has been used.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And that is the agent that you met with.
Mr. GITTINGER. That is right.
Senator KENNEDY. And you met at the safe house.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Whom did you meet with in the safe house?
Mr. GITTINGER. This is the part that is hard for me to say, and I am sorry that I have to. In
connection with some work that we were doing, we needed to have some information on
sexual habits. Morgan Hall provided informants for me, to talk to in connection with the sex
habits that I was interested in trying to find information. During one period of time the safe
house, as far as I was concerned, was used for just these particular type of interviews. And I
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didn't see the red curtains.


Senator KENNEDY. Those were prostitutes, were they?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. How many different times were you there that you had similar-Mr. GITTINGER. I couldn't possibly say with any certainty on that. Four or five times.
Senator KENNEDY. Four or five times.
Mr. GITTINGER. Over -- you remember now, the period that I'm talking about when I
would have any involvement in this is from about 1956 to 1961. So it's about a 4- or 5-year
period which is the only time that I know anything about what you are talking about here
today.
Senator KENNEDY. Did Morgan Hall make the arrangements for the prostitutes to meet
with you?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Did the interviews that you had have anything to do with drugs?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, as I tried to explain earlier when this was being discussed a little bit
beforehand, again I think it is pretty hard for most people now to recognize how little there
was known about drugs at the period of time that we are talking about, because the

-58drug age or the drug culture comes later on. Consequently, those of us who had any
responsibility in this area were interested in trying to get as much information as we could on
the subculture, the subculture drug groups, and obviously the Bureau of Narcotics represented
a means of doing this. Consequently, other types of things that were involved in discussions at
that time would have to do with the underground use of drugs. When I am talking about this I
am talking about the folkways in terms of unwitting use of drugs. Did these people that I was
talking to have any information about this and on rare instances they were able to tell me
about their use, and in most cases this would largely turn out to be a Mickey Finn or
something of that sort rather than anything esoteric.
I also was very much interested because we had relatively little information, believe it or not,
at that time, in terms of the various reactions that people were having to drugs. Therefore,
these people were very informative in terms of they knew a great deal of information about
reactions.
Senator KENNEDY. At least you gathered -- or am I correct in assuming that you gathered
the impression that the prostitutes that you had talked to were able to slip the drugs to people
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as I understand it. Did you form any impression on that?


Mr. GITTINGER. I certainly did not form the impression that, they did this as a rule or-Senator KENNEDY. But they bad the knowledge.
Mr. GITTINGER. They had the knowledge or some of them had had knowledge of this
being done. But again, as it turned out, it was largely in this area of knockout drops.
Senator KENNEDY. Looking back now did you form any impression about how the Agency
was actually testing the broad spectrum of social classes in these safe houses? With the large
disbursal of cash in small quantities, $100 bills and the kinds of elaborate decorations and
two-way mirrors in the bedrooms and all the rest, is there any question in your own mind what
was going on in the safe houses, or the techniques that were being used to administer these
drugs?
Mr. GITTINGER. I find it very difficult to answer that question, sir. I had absolutely no
direct knowledge there was a large number of this. I had no knowledge that anyone other than
-- than Morgan Hall was in any way involved in the unwitting administration of drugs.
Senator KENNEDY. But Gottlieb would know, would he not?
Mr. GITTINGER. I believe so, yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Could we go into the Human Ecology Foundation and talk about that
and how it was used as an instrument in terms of the support of research?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Could you describe it to us? Could you describe the Human Ecology
Foundation, how it functioned and how it worked?
Mr. GITTINGER. May I tell something about how it evolved, which I think is important?
Senator KENNEDY. Sure.
Mr. GITTINGER. The Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology, so-called, was
actually a -- I am confused here now as to whether I should name you names.

-59Senator KENNEDY. Well, we're not interested in names or institutions, so we prefer that you
do not. That has to be worked out in arrangements between Admiral Turner and the
individuals and the institutions.
But we're interested in what the Foundation really was and how it functioned and what its
purpose was.
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Mr. GITTINGER. Well, it was established to undertake research in the general area of the
behavioral sciences. It definitely had almost no focus or interest in, say, drug-related type of
activities except in a very minor way, because it was largely set up to attempt to gain a certain
amount of information and to fund projects which were psychological, sociological,
anthropological in character. It was established in the sense of a period of time that a lot of us
who are in it wish we could do it over again, but we were interested in trying to get together a
panel of the most representative high-level behavioral scientists we could to oversee and help
in terms of developing the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology type of program.
The Agency in effect provided the money. They did not direct the projects. Now, the fact of
the matter is, there are a lot of innocent people who received the Society for the Investigation
of Human Ecology money which I know for a fact they were never asked to do anything for
the CIA but they did get through this indirectly. They had no knowledge that they were getting
CIA money.
Senator KENNEDY. Over what period of time did this take place?
Mr. GITTINGER. As far as I was concerned , it was the period of time ending in 1961. 1
believe the Human Ecology fund finally phased out in 1965, but I was not involved in this
phasing out.
Senator KENNEDY. Can you give the range of the different sort of individual projects of the
universities in which it was active?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, it would have as many as -- I am very fuzzy on my memory on the
number of projects. It is over 10, 20, 30.
Senator KENNEDY. After it made the grants, what was the relationship of the Agency with
the results of the studies? The Foundation acquired the money to make the grants from the
Agency, and then it made the grants to these various research programs.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. And that included eight universities as well as individual researchers?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Then what follow-up was there to that, sir?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, in every sense of the word, the organization was run exactly like
any other foundation, and it carried with it the same thing in terms of making certain that the
people that they had given money to used it for the purpose for which it had been granted, that
they had access to any of the reports that they had put out, but there were no strings attached to
anybody. There wasn't any reason they couldn't publish anything that they put out.
Senator KENNEDY. What, sort of budget are we talking about here?
Mr. GITTINGER. I honestly do not remember. I would guess we are talking in the realm of
about $150,000 a year, but don't hold me to that, because I don't know.

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-60Senator KENNEDY. What is your view about such funding as a professional person, in terms
of compromising the integrity of a university, sir?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, obviously, sir, insofar as today there is no question about it. I will
have to say at the time that we were doing this there was quite an entirely different kind of an
attitude, and I do know for a fact that we moved to start towards phasing out the Society for
the Investigation of Human Ecology and the Human Ecology Fund for the very reason that we
were beginning to recognize that it was moving into an area but this would be compromised.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that is commendable, both your attitude and the reasons for it, but
during that period of time it still was involved in behavior research programs, as I understand
it.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir. On its own, in connection with this, it participated again, and
these again were not CIA-directed projects, but these were all things which would
theoretically contribute to the general knowledge at the time where the things like the study of
the Hungarian refugees -- obviously, the study of the Hungarian refugees who came to this
country after the Hungarian revolt was a very useful exercise to try to get information about
the personality characteristics of the Communists and so forth.
Senator KENNEDY. Were there other foundations that were doing similar kinds of work?
Mr. GITTINGER. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. You believe-Mr. GITTINGER. You mean, CIA, other CIA?
Senator KENNEDY. Right.
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, my answer is in the sense that I know of no other CIA foundations,
no. There were, of course, other foundations doing similar kinds of work in the United States.
Senator KENNEDY. Have you heard of the Psychological Assessments Foundation?
Mr. GITTINGER. I certainly have.
Senator KENNEDY. What was that? What function did that have?
Mr. GITTINGER. Now, this was bringing us up to a different era. I believe the functions of
that organization have nothing whatsoever to do with the things that are being talked about
here while I was associated with it.
Senator KENNEDY. Rather than getting into the work, it was another foundation, was it not?
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It was another foundation supported by the Agency?


Mr. GITTINGER. What, the Psychological Assessment?
Senator KENNEDY. Yes.
Mr. GITTINGER. No, sir, it was not.
Senator KENNEDY. It did not get any support at all from the Agency?
Mr. GITTINGER. Oh, yes, sir. It did get support, but it was a business firm.
Senator KENNEDY. It was a business but it got support from the Agency?
Mr. GITTINGER. It got money from it, but it definitely was not in MKULTRA or in any
way associated with this.

-61Senator KENNEDY. All right. I want to thank you for your helpful testimony, Mr. Gittinger.
It is not easy to go back into the past. I think you have been very fair in your characterizations,
and I think it is quite appropriately indicated that there are different standards now from what
they were 25 years ago, and I think you have responded very fairly and completely to the
inquiries, and I think with a good deal of feeling about it.
You are a person who is obviously attempting to serve the country's interest, so I want to
thank you very much for your statement and for your helpful timeliness.
Mr. GITTINGER. Thank you, sir.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Case?
Senator CASE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sorry that I had another committee that I had
to complete the hearing with this morning before I got here.
I shall read the testimony with very great interest, and I appreciate your testimony as I have
heard it. I would like to comment just on one point, and that is, it relates to a story in the press
yesterday about part of this program involving the funding of a grant at a foreign university. I
would like to elicit from you a comment as to the additional sensitivity and difficulty that that
practice involves from your standpoint as a scientist, as well as a citizen, if you will.
Mr. GITTINGER. I will say it was after the fact thinking. It was utter stupidity the way
things worked out to have used some of this money outside the United States when it was CIA
money. I can categorically state to my knowledge, and I don't claim a complete knowledge all
the way across of the human ecology functions, but to my knowledge, and this is unfortunate,
those people did not know that they were getting money from CIA, and they were not asked to
contribute anything to CIA as such.
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Senator CASE. It would be interesting to try to examine this by turning the thing around and
thinking what we would think if this happened from a foreign official agency to our own
university. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Schweiker.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Goldman, I wonder if you would tell us what your training and educational background is?
Dr. GOLDMAN. I have already given a biography for the record.
Senator SCHWEIKER. I have not seen it. Who has it? Is it classified? We may have it for
the record, but may I ask you to briefly describe your training and background for us now? I
hope it is no secret.
Dr. GOLDMAN. Well, I was told if I was asked this to say that. I was told that by your staff
people, but I have no objection to telling you. I am a resident from Pennsylvania, southwest
Pennsylvania, Lancaster County. I went to Penn State, and I am in nutrition.
Senator SCHWEIKER. In what?
Dr. GOLDMAN. Nutrition.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Were you in charge of a section or segment of the CIA in your past
capacity?
Dr. GOLDMAN. During the time I was with that organization, I was in charge of one small
section of it, one small segment of it; yes.

-62Senator SCHWEIKER. What was the function or purpose of that section that you headed?
Dr. GOLDMAN. To provide support for the other parts of the division.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Where in the chain of command would that put you in relation to Dr.
Gottlieb?
Dr. GOLDMAN. Pretty far down the line.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Gittinger, I would just like to ask you a few questions. We
appreciate your frankness and candor with the committee, and we realize this is a very difficult
area to go into. I am not quite clear on two matters that were raised earlier. First, were the safe
houses we were talking about here used on occasion by the prostitutes you referred to?

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Mr. GITTINGER. I really have not the slightest idea.


Senator SCHWEIKER. Were the prostitutes used in any way to slip the customers drugs for
observation purposes?
Mr. GITTINGER. Not to my direct knowledge.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Would you have been in a position to know the answer to either of
these questions?
Mr. GITTINGER. May I say, probably not, and may I make an aside to explain a little bit of
this, please, sir?
Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Gittinger, a moment ago you mentioned brainwashing
techniques, as one area that you had, I guess, done some work in. How would you characterize
the state of the art of brainwashing today? Who has the most expertise in this field, and who is
or is not doing it in terms of other governments?
During the Korean war there was a lot of serious discussion about brainwashing techniques
being used by the North Koreans, and I am interested in finding out what the state of the art is
today, as you see it.
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, of course, there, has been a great deal of work on this, and there is
still a great deal of controversy. I can tell you that as far as I knew, by 1961, 1962, it was at
least proven to my satisfaction that brainwashing, so called, is some kind of an esoteric device
where drugs or mind- altering kinds of conditions and so forth were used, did not exist even
though "The Manchurian Candidate" as a Movie really set us back a long time, because it
made something impossible look plausible. Do you follow what I mean? But by 1962 and
1963, the general idea that we were able to come up with is that brainwashing was largely a
process of isolating a human being, keeping him out of contact, putting him under long stress
in relationship to interviewing and interrogation, and that they could produce any change that
way without having to resort to any kind of esoteric means.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Are there ways that we can ascertain this from a distance when we
see a captive prisoner either go on television, in a photograph, or at a press conference? In
other words, are there certain signs that you have learned to recognize from your technical
background, to tell when brainwashing has occurred? Or is that very difficult to do?
Mr. GITTINGER. It is difficult to do. I think it is possible now in terms of looking at a
picture of somebody who has been in enemy hands for a long period of time. We can get some
pretty good ideas of what kind of circumstances he has been under, if that is what you mean.

-63Senator SCHWEIKER. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.


Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much.
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Before adjourning the hearings, I would like to have the record show that Dr. Goldman and
Mr. Gittinger have voluntarily cooperated with the committee in staff interviews, that they
appear this morning voluntarily, and they are not under subpoena.
Gentlemen, I realize that this experience may have been an unhappy one and possibly a
painful one. Therefore, we thank you very much for participating this morning. We also
realize that the circumstances of that time differed very much from this day, and possibly the
national attitude, the national political attitude condoned this type of activity. So, we have not
asked you to come here as persons who have committed crimes, but rather in hope that you
can assist us in studying this problem so that it will not occur once again. In that spirit we
thank you for your participation, and we look forward to working with you further in this case.
Thank you very much.
Senator KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I would like also to thank the witnesses. These are
difficult matters, and I think all of us are very grateful.
Senator SCHWEIKER. I think the witnesses should know that though it may not always
seem that way, what we are trying to do is to probe the past and look at the policies of the past
to affect the future. I think our emphasis really is on the future, not the past, but it is important
that we learn from the past as we formulate policies and legislation for the future, I hope that
all of the witnesses who did come before us voluntarily this morning, including Admiral
Turner respect the fact that we are questioning the past to learn about the future. I think it
should be looked at in that light.
Senator KENNEDY. I think that is the spirit in which we have had these hearings. It seems to
me that from both these witnesses and others, Gottlieb knows the information and can best
respond, and we are going to make every effort in the Senate Health Committee to get Mr.
Gottlieb to appear, and we obviously look forward to cooperating with Senator Inouye and the
other members of the committee in getting the final chapter written on this, but we want to
thank you very much for your appearance here.
Senator INOUYE. The hearing will stand in recess, subject to the call of the Chair.
[Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the hearing was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.]

Appendix A: Testing and Use of Chemical and Biological Agents by the


Intelligence Community
Appendix B: Documents Referring to Discovery of Additional MKULTRA
Material
Appendix C: Documents Referring to Subprojects
Table of Contents

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Table of Contents

Testimony of Philip Goldman, Former Employee, Central


Intelligence Agency
Mr. GOLDMAN. I am Philip Goldman.
Senator INOUYE. And you are a former employee of the Central Intelligence Agency?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Over 10 years ago.
Senator INOUYE. And you were employed at the time when MKULTRA was in operation?
Mr. GOLDMAN. There were some MKULTRA's in operation at the time I was there.

-51Senator INOUYE. And Mr. John Gittinger, are you a former employee of the Central
Intelligence Agency?

Testimony of John Gittinger, Former Employee, Central


Intelligence Agency
Mr. GITTINGER. I am.
Senator INOUYE. Are you still an employee?
Mr. GITTINGER. No.

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Senator INOUYE. Were you a member of the Agency at the time MKULTRA was in
operation?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.
Senator INOUYE. Thank you. Senator Kennedy.
Senator KENNEDY. I want to welcome both of you to the committee. If we could start with
Mr. Goldman. Were you the project engineer for the safe houses in either San Francisco or
New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I know of no safe house in San Francisco.
Senator KENNEDY. How about in New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I knew of one facility that was established there, but I didn't know anything
of its operation.
Senator KENNEDY. Were you a monitor on any testing of drugs on unwitting persons in San
Francisco?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, we have a classified document here that was provided by the
Agency that lists your name as a monitor of the program and I would appreciate it if you
would look-Mr. GOLDMAN. I think the misunderstanding arises because I was project officer.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, would you take a look at that?
[Mr. Goldman inspected the document.]
Mr. GOLDMAN. This document as it states is correct. However, my-Senator KENNEDY. That document is correct?
Mr. GOLDMAN. As far as I see on the first page, the project. But my-Senator KENNEDY. Well, could I get it back, please.
That would indicate that you were a monitor of the program.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I was in charge of disbursing the moneys to Morgan Hall.
Senator KENNEDY. To whom was that?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To the individual whose name was listed at the top of that document.
Senator KENNEDY. And you knew that he was running the project in San Francisco?

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Mr. GOLDMAN. I knew he was the person who was in charge out there.
Senator KENNEDY. All right.
Mr. GOLDMAN. But I had no knowledge nor did I seek knowledge of actually what he was
doing, because there would be other things involved.
I did receive-Senator KENNEDY. What were you doing?

-52Mr. GOLDMAN. I was collecting -- I had to be sure that all the receipts that ever were turned
in balanced with the moneys that were paid out to see that everything was run all right. There
was no illegal use of funds as far as we could determine by the receipts and cash.
Senator KENNEDY. So even though the Agency document indicates that you were a monitor
for the program, one of the few monitors of that particular program which you mentioned for
San Francisco and Mill Valley, Calif., you described your responsibility only as a carrier of
money, is that correct?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I would say as a disburser or carrying out -- seeing that the moneys were
handled properly. There was within that -- I don't know what's done or what he did do in
conjunction with other people.
Senator KENNEDY. Were you responsible for the disbursement of all the funds?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I was responsible for turning over the check to him.
Senator KENNEDY. And what did you know of the program itself?
Mr. GOLDMAN. The only thing I knew of the program was what he furnished us in terms of
receipts and that sort of thing. I didn't indulge or concern myself in that.
Senator KENNEDY. You still wrote, and I'll let you examine it -- it's a classified document -but you wrote a rather substantive review of the program in May of 1963, talking about the
experiments, the factual data that had been collected, covert and realistic field trials, about the
necessity of those particular -- and talked about the effectiveness of the various programs, the
efficiency of various delivery systems. That doesn't sound to me like someone who is only-Mr. GOLDMAN. Well, if you would refresh my memory, if I could read this I would
certainly agree with whatever is said there, if it was written.
Senator KENNEDY. I am trying to gather what your role was. You've indicated first of all
that you didn't know about -- you knew about a safe house in New York; now we find out that
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you're the carrier for the resources as well and the agent in San Francisco. We find out now
that the CIA put you as a monitor. You're testifying that you only were the courier, and here
we have just one document, and there are many others that talk about the substance of that
program with your name on it and I am just trying to find out exactly what role you were
playing.
Mr. GOLDMAN. The only thing I can tell you about this and I am drawing completely on
my memory is that this individual who was in charge out there conducted these things and
reported them back to the Agency. I didn't participate in any of them. All I know was that he
furnished me with receipts for things that were done and told of the work that they had done.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that document covers more than receipts.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, it tells of what -- they had conducted work out there.
Senator KENNEDY. It describes, does it not? Read the paragraph 2.
Mr. GOLDMAN. "A number of covert"-Senator KENNEDY. Well, you can't read it, it's a classified document, and I don't know why,
quite frankly, but it relates to the substance

-53of those programs and your name is signed to the memorandums on it. I am not interested in
you trying to review for us now what is in the document, but I think it would be unfortunate if
we were left with the opinion that all you were was a courier of resources when we see a
document with your name on it, signed, that talks about the substance of the program. And
what we're interested in is the substance of the program. We have the recent documents that
were provided by the Agency, which do indicate that you were at least involved in the
substance, and I'm just trying to find out whether you're willing to tell us about that.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I am perfectly willing to tell you everything that I can remember.
Senator KENNEDY. But you can't remember anything.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I can't remember the substantive parts of these, things, I really can't.
Senator KENNEDY. Of the program that was taking place.
Do you have any greater familiarity with what was happening in New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, no.
Senator KENNEDY. And you have the same function with regards to New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. The same function with regard to New York.
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Senator KENNEDY. Did you ever go to San Francisco?


Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. Did you meet with the agent in charge?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And why did you meet with him?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To discuss some of the receipts and things that were there to find out if
these were indeed true expenditures and to find out if everything was going along all right for
the work that was being done.
Senator KENNEDY. What work was being done?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, the reports of these things and whatever was being done. I don't know
who he reported to but he did report to somebody.
Senator KENNEDY. You travel out there to find out about the work that's being done, and
what does he tell you, that the work is being done well and-Mr. GOLDMAN. He told me that the work that they were doing was going along,
progressing satisfactorily, but to be very frank with you-Senator KENNEDY. But he didn't tell you what the work was?
Mr. GOLDMAN. To be very frank with you, Senator, I cannot remember the things that
happened back in those days. I've been away from the company -- from the Agency for over
10 years, and that is even farther back than that, and that was just about the time when I first
engaged in this, so it was my first-Senator KENNEDY. Did they disburse a series of $100 checks, to your recollection?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I don't recollect it, but if you have it there, then they did.
Senator KENNEDY. Did you know Dr. Gottlieb?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.

-54Senator KENNEDY. How did you know Dr. Gottlieb?


Mr. GOLDMAN. He had been head of the division when I was recruited.

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Senator KENNEDY. Did you talk to him about these programs? Did you have anything to do
with him during this period of time?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't have anything to do with him until I would say probably in the
sixties.
Senator KENNEDY. And can you tell us what you had to do with him then?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Just what you see there, on the papers.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that is the request for the money and he approves it.
Mr. GOLDMAN. That is the request for money and he approves it, and I am quite sure that I
probably discussed with him whether the work was going along all right, whether his reports
were being turned in, and whether he was satisfied with the way things were going and did he
have any complaints about the way other people were requesting him, but I did not engage
myself in anything he was doing.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, did you get the impression that Gottlieb knew what was going
on?
Mr. GOLDMAN. I didn't ask.
Senator KENNEDY. But you told him that your impression that what was going on even
though you didn't know what was going on, was going on well, I guess? [Laughter.]
Mr. GOLDMAN. I told Gottlieb what you saw in there was that the things appeared to be
going along all right. I was repeating and parroting back the words that were given to me
while I was there.
Senator KENNEDY. What was the money being spent for, do you know?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No; I can't recall that, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Would you remember if we told you it was red curtains and can-can
pictures-Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Floral pictures and the rest.
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Recorders.
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Recorders and two-way mirrors.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Wait, hold on. You're slipping a word in there now.

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Senator KENNEDY. But you would have authorized those funds, would you not, since you
were the-Mr. GOLDMAN. Did you say two-way mirrors?
Senator KENNEDY. Yes.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Where?
Senator KENNEDY. In the safe houses.
Mr. GOLDMAN. Where?
Senator KENNEDY. San Francisco.
Mr. GOLDMAN. No.
Senator KENNEDY. How about New York?
Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. You remember now that you approved expenditures for New York?

-55Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes.


Senator KENNEDY. What were those expenditures for?
Mr. GOLDMAN. That was a transfer of money over for the use in an apartment in New York
by the Bureau of Narcotics. It was for their use.
Senator KENNEDY. Do you have any knowledge of what was going on in the apartment?
Mr. GOLDMAN. No, sir, other than I know that it had been used, according to the
information that I have been given, it was used by the Bureau of Narcotics to make meetings
with individuals who they were interested in with regard to pushing dope -- not pushing dope,
but selling narcotics and that sort of thing.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, I am sure you had many responsibilities and it's a long time ago,
but the Agency does indicate that you were project monitor for that particular program.
Mr. GOLDMAN. That's correct.
Senator KENNEDY. Your own testimony indicates you went out to review the expenditures
of funds to find out whether they were being wisely used, that you came back and talked to the
project director, Mr. Gottlieb, to give him a progress report about what was going on out there.
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Mr. GOLDMAN. Yes, sir, I did.


Senator KENNEDY. All those things are true, and yet you draw a complete blank in terms of
what was the project itself. That's where the record is now.
Mr. GOLDMAN. I did not go out there to review the projects nor did I come back and talk
with Mr. Gottlieb and review what I had observed in terms of any projects that they -- that is,
other parts of the Agency might have in operation there. I simply reported back those things
which were told to me by the individual out there who -- and I carried them back and they -are contained in the report that you have in front of you, word for word, just as it was given to
me.
Senator KENNEDY. The report that you examined here is a substantive report on the
particular program and project. And I don't think anyone who wasn't familiar with the project - this is a personal evaluation -- could write a report on the substance of it without knowing
about it. Now, that's mine. Maybe you can't remember and recollect, and that's-Mr. GOLDMAN. No; everything I put down in there is things that I was told while I was out
there, and if there was any ancillary information involved in there I can tell you I just don't
remember that. I really don't.
At the time -- that was some years ago. At the time -- a lot of time has passed since then and I
have made quite sure that if I could recollect it at all, I would do it. If you have some papers
and you want me to certify whether yes, this is so or that is so, I can do that, but I can't recall it
mentally.
Senator KENNEDY. You just certified the principal. There are others up here.
I would like to go to Dr. Gittinger.
Mr. GITTINGER. It's Mr. Gittinger.
Senator KENNEDY. How long did you serve with the Agency?

-56Mr. GITTINGER. Twenty-six years.


Senator KENNEDY. Excuse me?
Mr. GITTINGER. Twenty-six years.
Senator KENNEDY. Twenty-six years.
And at some point you moved into the operational support side, is that correct?

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Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.


Senator KENNEDY. And did you know Sidney Gottlieb?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. And did he inform you about the research projects involving LSD?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. It is my understanding that you were also aware of some of the drug
testing projects conducted on unwitting subjects on the west coast using the Bureau of
Narcotics people in the operation. Is that true?
Mr. GITTINGER. I was.
Senator INOUYE. Excuse me. Would you speak into the microphone? I cannot hear you.
Mr. GITTINGER. Sorry.
Senator KENNEDY. Do you know which drugs were involved in those tests?
Mr. GITTINGER. LSD. And I can't remember for sure much of the others. What is the
substance of marihuana, cannabis, is that right, that can be delivered by other than smoking?
Senator KENNEDY. Cannabis?
Mr. GITTINGER. There had been some discussion of that; yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And was heroin also used?
Mr. GITTINGER. Heroin used by CIA?
Senator KENNEDY. No. In the west coast operation.
Mr. GITTINGER. Absolutely not.
Senator KENNEDY. Now, to your knowledge, how were the drugs administered to the
unwitting subjects?
Mr. GITTINGER. I have no direct knowledge.
Senator KENNEDY. Why did you go to the safe houses?
Mr. GITTINGER. It's a very complicated story. Just in justification of myself, this came up
just, day before yesterday. I have not really had enough time to get it all straightened in my
mind, so I ramble.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, you take your time and tell us in your own words. We've got
some time here.

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Mr. GITTINGER. My responsibilities which would involve any of the period of time that
you were talking about really was not directly related to drugs at all. I was a psychologist
charged with the responsibility of trying to develop as much information as I could on various
cultures, overseas cultures, anthropological type data, if you follow what I mean. I was also
engaged in trying to work out ways and means of assessing people and understanding people.
I originally became involved in this through working on Chinese culture, and over a series of
time I was introduced to the problem of brainwashing, which is the thing that really was the
most compelling thing in relationship to this, and became charged with the responsibility of
trying to find out a little bit about interrogation techniques.

-57And among other things, we decided or I decided that one of the best sources of interrogation
techniques would be trying to locate and interview and become involved with experienced
police interrogators in the country and experienced people who had real practical knowledge
of interrogation. The reason for this is that we had become pretty well convinced after the
experience of the brainwashing problems coming out of China, that it was the techniques of
the interrogators that were causing the individuals to make confessions and so forth in
relationship to this, rather than any kind of drugging and so forth. So we were very much
interested in interrogation techniques, and this led to me being introduced to the agent in the
west coast, and I began to talk to him in connection with these interrogation techniques.
Senator KENNEDY. OK. Now, that is the agent that ran the tests on the west coast on the
unwitting people. That's where you come in, correct?
Mr. GITTINGER. If I understand -- would you say that again?
Senator KENNEDY. The name Morgan Hall has been -- that is the name that has been used.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes.
Senator KENNEDY. And that is the agent that you met with.
Mr. GITTINGER. That is right.
Senator KENNEDY. And you met at the safe house.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Whom did you meet with in the safe house?
Mr. GITTINGER. This is the part that is hard for me to say, and I am sorry that I have to. In
connection with some work that we were doing, we needed to have some information on
sexual habits. Morgan Hall provided informants for me, to talk to in connection with the sex
habits that I was interested in trying to find information. During one period of time the safe
house, as far as I was concerned, was used for just these particular type of interviews. And I
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didn't see the red curtains.


Senator KENNEDY. Those were prostitutes, were they?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. How many different times were you there that you had similar-Mr. GITTINGER. I couldn't possibly say with any certainty on that. Four or five times.
Senator KENNEDY. Four or five times.
Mr. GITTINGER. Over -- you remember now, the period that I'm talking about when I
would have any involvement in this is from about 1956 to 1961. So it's about a 4- or 5-year
period which is the only time that I know anything about what you are talking about here
today.
Senator KENNEDY. Did Morgan Hall make the arrangements for the prostitutes to meet
with you?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Did the interviews that you had have anything to do with drugs?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, as I tried to explain earlier when this was being discussed a little bit
beforehand, again I think it is pretty hard for most people now to recognize how little there
was known about drugs at the period of time that we are talking about, because the

-58drug age or the drug culture comes later on. Consequently, those of us who had any
responsibility in this area were interested in trying to get as much information as we could on
the subculture, the subculture drug groups, and obviously the Bureau of Narcotics represented
a means of doing this. Consequently, other types of things that were involved in discussions at
that time would have to do with the underground use of drugs. When I am talking about this I
am talking about the folkways in terms of unwitting use of drugs. Did these people that I was
talking to have any information about this and on rare instances they were able to tell me
about their use, and in most cases this would largely turn out to be a Mickey Finn or
something of that sort rather than anything esoteric.
I also was very much interested because we had relatively little information, believe it or not,
at that time, in terms of the various reactions that people were having to drugs. Therefore,
these people were very informative in terms of they knew a great deal of information about
reactions.
Senator KENNEDY. At least you gathered -- or am I correct in assuming that you gathered
the impression that the prostitutes that you had talked to were able to slip the drugs to people
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as I understand it. Did you form any impression on that?


Mr. GITTINGER. I certainly did not form the impression that, they did this as a rule or-Senator KENNEDY. But they bad the knowledge.
Mr. GITTINGER. They had the knowledge or some of them had had knowledge of this
being done. But again, as it turned out, it was largely in this area of knockout drops.
Senator KENNEDY. Looking back now did you form any impression about how the Agency
was actually testing the broad spectrum of social classes in these safe houses? With the large
disbursal of cash in small quantities, $100 bills and the kinds of elaborate decorations and
two-way mirrors in the bedrooms and all the rest, is there any question in your own mind what
was going on in the safe houses, or the techniques that were being used to administer these
drugs?
Mr. GITTINGER. I find it very difficult to answer that question, sir. I had absolutely no
direct knowledge there was a large number of this. I had no knowledge that anyone other than
-- than Morgan Hall was in any way involved in the unwitting administration of drugs.
Senator KENNEDY. But Gottlieb would know, would he not?
Mr. GITTINGER. I believe so, yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Could we go into the Human Ecology Foundation and talk about that
and how it was used as an instrument in terms of the support of research?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Could you describe it to us? Could you describe the Human Ecology
Foundation, how it functioned and how it worked?
Mr. GITTINGER. May I tell something about how it evolved, which I think is important?
Senator KENNEDY. Sure.
Mr. GITTINGER. The Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology, so-called, was
actually a -- I am confused here now as to whether I should name you names.

-59Senator KENNEDY. Well, we're not interested in names or institutions, so we prefer that you
do not. That has to be worked out in arrangements between Admiral Turner and the
individuals and the institutions.
But we're interested in what the Foundation really was and how it functioned and what its
purpose was.
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Mr. GITTINGER. Well, it was established to undertake research in the general area of the
behavioral sciences. It definitely had almost no focus or interest in, say, drug-related type of
activities except in a very minor way, because it was largely set up to attempt to gain a certain
amount of information and to fund projects which were psychological, sociological,
anthropological in character. It was established in the sense of a period of time that a lot of us
who are in it wish we could do it over again, but we were interested in trying to get together a
panel of the most representative high-level behavioral scientists we could to oversee and help
in terms of developing the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology type of program.
The Agency in effect provided the money. They did not direct the projects. Now, the fact of
the matter is, there are a lot of innocent people who received the Society for the Investigation
of Human Ecology money which I know for a fact they were never asked to do anything for
the CIA but they did get through this indirectly. They had no knowledge that they were getting
CIA money.
Senator KENNEDY. Over what period of time did this take place?
Mr. GITTINGER. As far as I was concerned , it was the period of time ending in 1961. 1
believe the Human Ecology fund finally phased out in 1965, but I was not involved in this
phasing out.
Senator KENNEDY. Can you give the range of the different sort of individual projects of the
universities in which it was active?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, it would have as many as -- I am very fuzzy on my memory on the
number of projects. It is over 10, 20, 30.
Senator KENNEDY. After it made the grants, what was the relationship of the Agency with
the results of the studies? The Foundation acquired the money to make the grants from the
Agency, and then it made the grants to these various research programs.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. And that included eight universities as well as individual researchers?
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. Then what follow-up was there to that, sir?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, in every sense of the word, the organization was run exactly like
any other foundation, and it carried with it the same thing in terms of making certain that the
people that they had given money to used it for the purpose for which it had been granted, that
they had access to any of the reports that they had put out, but there were no strings attached to
anybody. There wasn't any reason they couldn't publish anything that they put out.
Senator KENNEDY. What, sort of budget are we talking about here?
Mr. GITTINGER. I honestly do not remember. I would guess we are talking in the realm of
about $150,000 a year, but don't hold me to that, because I don't know.

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-60Senator KENNEDY. What is your view about such funding as a professional person, in terms
of compromising the integrity of a university, sir?
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, obviously, sir, insofar as today there is no question about it. I will
have to say at the time that we were doing this there was quite an entirely different kind of an
attitude, and I do know for a fact that we moved to start towards phasing out the Society for
the Investigation of Human Ecology and the Human Ecology Fund for the very reason that we
were beginning to recognize that it was moving into an area but this would be compromised.
Senator KENNEDY. Well, that is commendable, both your attitude and the reasons for it, but
during that period of time it still was involved in behavior research programs, as I understand
it.
Mr. GITTINGER. Yes, sir. On its own, in connection with this, it participated again, and
these again were not CIA-directed projects, but these were all things which would
theoretically contribute to the general knowledge at the time where the things like the study of
the Hungarian refugees -- obviously, the study of the Hungarian refugees who came to this
country after the Hungarian revolt was a very useful exercise to try to get information about
the personality characteristics of the Communists and so forth.
Senator KENNEDY. Were there other foundations that were doing similar kinds of work?
Mr. GITTINGER. Not to my knowledge, sir.
Senator KENNEDY. You believe-Mr. GITTINGER. You mean, CIA, other CIA?
Senator KENNEDY. Right.
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, my answer is in the sense that I know of no other CIA foundations,
no. There were, of course, other foundations doing similar kinds of work in the United States.
Senator KENNEDY. Have you heard of the Psychological Assessments Foundation?
Mr. GITTINGER. I certainly have.
Senator KENNEDY. What was that? What function did that have?
Mr. GITTINGER. Now, this was bringing us up to a different era. I believe the functions of
that organization have nothing whatsoever to do with the things that are being talked about
here while I was associated with it.
Senator KENNEDY. Rather than getting into the work, it was another foundation, was it not?
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It was another foundation supported by the Agency?


Mr. GITTINGER. What, the Psychological Assessment?
Senator KENNEDY. Yes.
Mr. GITTINGER. No, sir, it was not.
Senator KENNEDY. It did not get any support at all from the Agency?
Mr. GITTINGER. Oh, yes, sir. It did get support, but it was a business firm.
Senator KENNEDY. It was a business but it got support from the Agency?
Mr. GITTINGER. It got money from it, but it definitely was not in MKULTRA or in any
way associated with this.

-61Senator KENNEDY. All right. I want to thank you for your helpful testimony, Mr. Gittinger.
It is not easy to go back into the past. I think you have been very fair in your characterizations,
and I think it is quite appropriately indicated that there are different standards now from what
they were 25 years ago, and I think you have responded very fairly and completely to the
inquiries, and I think with a good deal of feeling about it.
You are a person who is obviously attempting to serve the country's interest, so I want to
thank you very much for your statement and for your helpful timeliness.
Mr. GITTINGER. Thank you, sir.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Case?
Senator CASE. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am sorry that I had another committee that I had
to complete the hearing with this morning before I got here.
I shall read the testimony with very great interest, and I appreciate your testimony as I have
heard it. I would like to comment just on one point, and that is, it relates to a story in the press
yesterday about part of this program involving the funding of a grant at a foreign university. I
would like to elicit from you a comment as to the additional sensitivity and difficulty that that
practice involves from your standpoint as a scientist, as well as a citizen, if you will.
Mr. GITTINGER. I will say it was after the fact thinking. It was utter stupidity the way
things worked out to have used some of this money outside the United States when it was CIA
money. I can categorically state to my knowledge, and I don't claim a complete knowledge all
the way across of the human ecology functions, but to my knowledge, and this is unfortunate,
those people did not know that they were getting money from CIA, and they were not asked to
contribute anything to CIA as such.
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Senator CASE. It would be interesting to try to examine this by turning the thing around and
thinking what we would think if this happened from a foreign official agency to our own
university. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator INOUYE. Senator Schweiker.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Goldman, I wonder if you would tell us what your training and educational background is?
Dr. GOLDMAN. I have already given a biography for the record.
Senator SCHWEIKER. I have not seen it. Who has it? Is it classified? We may have it for
the record, but may I ask you to briefly describe your training and background for us now? I
hope it is no secret.
Dr. GOLDMAN. Well, I was told if I was asked this to say that. I was told that by your staff
people, but I have no objection to telling you. I am a resident from Pennsylvania, southwest
Pennsylvania, Lancaster County. I went to Penn State, and I am in nutrition.
Senator SCHWEIKER. In what?
Dr. GOLDMAN. Nutrition.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Were you in charge of a section or segment of the CIA in your past
capacity?
Dr. GOLDMAN. During the time I was with that organization, I was in charge of one small
section of it, one small segment of it; yes.

-62Senator SCHWEIKER. What was the function or purpose of that section that you headed?
Dr. GOLDMAN. To provide support for the other parts of the division.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Where in the chain of command would that put you in relation to Dr.
Gottlieb?
Dr. GOLDMAN. Pretty far down the line.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Gittinger, I would just like to ask you a few questions. We
appreciate your frankness and candor with the committee, and we realize this is a very difficult
area to go into. I am not quite clear on two matters that were raised earlier. First, were the safe
houses we were talking about here used on occasion by the prostitutes you referred to?

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Mr. GITTINGER. I really have not the slightest idea.


Senator SCHWEIKER. Were the prostitutes used in any way to slip the customers drugs for
observation purposes?
Mr. GITTINGER. Not to my direct knowledge.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Would you have been in a position to know the answer to either of
these questions?
Mr. GITTINGER. May I say, probably not, and may I make an aside to explain a little bit of
this, please, sir?
Senator SCHWEIKER. Mr. Gittinger, a moment ago you mentioned brainwashing
techniques, as one area that you had, I guess, done some work in. How would you characterize
the state of the art of brainwashing today? Who has the most expertise in this field, and who is
or is not doing it in terms of other governments?
During the Korean war there was a lot of serious discussion about brainwashing techniques
being used by the North Koreans, and I am interested in finding out what the state of the art is
today, as you see it.
Mr. GITTINGER. Well, of course, there, has been a great deal of work on this, and there is
still a great deal of controversy. I can tell you that as far as I knew, by 1961, 1962, it was at
least proven to my satisfaction that brainwashing, so called, is some kind of an esoteric device
where drugs or mind- altering kinds of conditions and so forth were used, did not exist even
though "The Manchurian Candidate" as a Movie really set us back a long time, because it
made something impossible look plausible. Do you follow what I mean? But by 1962 and
1963, the general idea that we were able to come up with is that brainwashing was largely a
process of isolating a human being, keeping him out of contact, putting him under long stress
in relationship to interviewing and interrogation, and that they could produce any change that
way without having to resort to any kind of esoteric means.
Senator SCHWEIKER. Are there ways that we can ascertain this from a distance when we
see a captive prisoner either go on television, in a photograph, or at a press conference? In
other words, are there certain signs that you have learned to recognize from your technical
background, to tell when brainwashing has occurred? Or is that very difficult to do?
Mr. GITTINGER. It is difficult to do. I think it is possible now in terms of looking at a
picture of somebody who has been in enemy hands for a long period of time. We can get some
pretty good ideas of what kind of circumstances he has been under, if that is what you mean.

-63Senator SCHWEIKER. That is all I have, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.


Senator INOUYE. Thank you very much.
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Before adjourning the hearings, I would like to have the record show that Dr. Goldman and
Mr. Gittinger have voluntarily cooperated with the committee in staff interviews, that they
appear this morning voluntarily, and they are not under subpoena.
Gentlemen, I realize that this experience may have been an unhappy one and possibly a
painful one. Therefore, we thank you very much for participating this morning. We also
realize that the circumstances of that time differed very much from this day, and possibly the
national attitude, the national political attitude condoned this type of activity. So, we have not
asked you to come here as persons who have committed crimes, but rather in hope that you
can assist us in studying this problem so that it will not occur once again. In that spirit we
thank you for your participation, and we look forward to working with you further in this case.
Thank you very much.
Senator KENNEDY. Mr. Chairman, I would like also to thank the witnesses. These are
difficult matters, and I think all of us are very grateful.
Senator SCHWEIKER. I think the witnesses should know that though it may not always
seem that way, what we are trying to do is to probe the past and look at the policies of the past
to affect the future. I think our emphasis really is on the future, not the past, but it is important
that we learn from the past as we formulate policies and legislation for the future, I hope that
all of the witnesses who did come before us voluntarily this morning, including Admiral
Turner respect the fact that we are questioning the past to learn about the future. I think it
should be looked at in that light.
Senator KENNEDY. I think that is the spirit in which we have had these hearings. It seems to
me that from both these witnesses and others, Gottlieb knows the information and can best
respond, and we are going to make every effort in the Senate Health Committee to get Mr.
Gottlieb to appear, and we obviously look forward to cooperating with Senator Inouye and the
other members of the committee in getting the final chapter written on this, but we want to
thank you very much for your appearance here.
Senator INOUYE. The hearing will stand in recess, subject to the call of the Chair.
[Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the hearing was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.]

Appendix A: Testing and Use of Chemical and Biological Agents by the


Intelligence Community
Appendix B: Documents Referring to Discovery of Additional MKULTRA
Material
Appendix C: Documents Referring to Subprojects
Table of Contents

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Sign the Resolution


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APPENDIX A
XVII. Testing And Use Of Chemical And Biological Agents By The
Intelligence Community
Under its mandate [1] the Select Committee has studied the testing and use of chemical and
biological agents by intelligence agencies. Detailed descriptions of the programs conducted
by intelligence agencies involving chemical and biological agents will be included in a
separately published appendix to the Senate Select Committee's report. This section of the
report will discuss the rationale for the programs, their monitoring and control, and what the
Committee's investigation has revealed about the relationships among the intelligence
agencies and about their relations with other government agencies and private institutions
and individuals. [2]
Fears that countries hostile to the United States would use chemical and biological agents
against Americans or America's allies led to the development of a defensive program
designed to discover techniques for American intelligence agencies to detect and counteract
chemical and biological agents. The defensive orientation soon became secondary as the
possible use of these agents to obtain information from, or gain control over, enemy agents
became apparent.
Research and development programs to find materials which could be used to alter human
behavior were initiated in the late 1940s and early 1950s. These experimental programs
originally included testing of drugs involving witting human subjects, and culminated in tests
using unwitting, nonvolunteer human subjects. These tests were designed to determine the
potential effects of chemical or biological agents when used operationally against individuals
unaware that they had received a drug.
The testing programs were considered highly sensitive by the intelligence agencies
administering them. Few people, even within the agencies, knew of the programs and there is
no evidence that either the executive branch or Congress were ever informed of them. The
highly compartmented nature of these programs may be explained in part by an observation
made by the CIA Inspector General that, "the knowledge that the Agency is engaging in
unethical and illicit activi-

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[1] Senate Resolution 21 directs the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Activities to investigate a number
of issues:
"(a) Whether agencies within the intelligence community conducted illegal domestic activities (Section 2 (1)
and (2));
"(b) The extent to which agencies within the intelligence community cooperate (Section 2 (4) and (8));
"(c) The adequacy of executive branch and congressional oversight of intelligence activities (Section 2 (7) and
(11));
"(d) The adequacy of existing laws to safeguard the rights of American citizens (Section 2 (13))."
[2] The details of these programs may never be known. The programs were highly compartmented. Few records
were kept. What little documentation existed for the CIA's principal program was destroyed early in 1973.

(65)

-66ties would have serious repercussions in political and diplomatic circles and would be
detrimental to the accomplishment of its missions." [3]
The research and development program, and particularly the covert testing programs,
resulted in massive abridgments of the rights of American citizens, sometimes with tragic
consequences The deaths of two Americans [3a] can be attributed to these programs; other
participants in the testing programs may still suffer from the residual effects. While some
controlled testing of these substances might be defended, the nature of the tests, their scale,
and the fact that they were continued for years after the danger of surreptitious
administration of LSD to unwitting individuals was known, demonstrate a fundamental
disregard for the value of human life.
The Select Committee's investigation of the testing and use of chemical and biological agents
also raise serious questions about the adequacy of command and control procedures within
the Central Intelligence Agency and military intelligence, and about the relationships among
the intelligence agencies, other governmental agencies, and private institutions and
individuals. The CIA's normal administrative controls were waived for programs involving
chemical and biological agents to protect their security. According to the head of the Audit
Branchof the CIA, these waivers produced "gross administrative failures." They prevented
the CIA's internal review mechanisms (the Office of General Counsel, the Inspector General,
and the Audit Staff) from adequately supervising the programs. In general, the waivers had
the paradoxical effect of providing less restrictive administrative controls and less effective
internal review for controversial and highly sensitive projects than those governing normal
Agency activities.
The security of the programs was protected not only by waivers of normal administrative
controls, but also by a high degree of compartmentation within the CIA. This
compartmentation excluded the CIA's Medical Staff from the principal research and testing

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program employing chemical and biological agents.


It also may have led to agency policymakers receiving differing and inconsistent responses
when they posed questions to the CIA component involved.
Jurisdictional uncertainty within the CIA was matched by jurisdictional conflict among the
various intelligence agencies. A spirit of cooperation and reciprocal exchanges of
information which initially characterized the programs disappeared. Military testers withheld
information from the CIA, ignoring suggestions for coordination from their superiors. The
CIA similarly failed to provide information to the military on the CIA's testing program. This
failure to cooperate was conspicuously manifested in an attempt by the Army to conceal

[3] CIA Inspector General's Survey of TSD, 1957, p. 217.


[3a] On January 8, 1953, Mr. Harold Blauer died of circulatory collapse and heart failure following an
intravenous injection of a synthetic mescaline derivative while a subject of tests conducted by New York State
Psychiatric Institute under a contract let by the U.S. Army Chemical Corps. The Committee's investigation into
drug testing by U.S. intelligence agencies focused on the testing of LSD, however, the committee did receive a
copy of the U.S. Army Inspector General's Report, issued on October 1975, on the events and circumstances of
Mr. Blauer's death. His death was directly attributable to the administration of the synthetic mescaline
derivative.

-67their overseas testing program, which included surreptitious administration of LSD, from the
CIA. Learning of the Army's program, the Agency surreptitiously attempted to gain details
of it.
The decision to institute one of the Army's LSD field testing projects had been based, at least
in part, on the finding that no long-term residual effects had ever resulted from the drug's
administration. The CIA's failure to inform the Army of a death which resulted from the
surreptitious administration of LSD to unwitting Americans may well have resulted in the
institution of an unnecessary and potentially lethal program.
The development, testing, and use of chemical and biological agents by intelligence agencies
raises serious questions about the relationship between the intelligence community and
foreign governments, other agencies of the Federal Government, and other institutions and
individuals. The questions raised range from the legitimacy of American complicity in
actions abroad which violate American and foreign laws to the possible compromise of the
integrity of public and private institutions used as cover by intelligence agencies.

A. THE PROGRAMS INVESTIGATED


1. Project CHATTER
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Project CHATTER was a Navy program that began in the fall of 1947. Responding to
reports of "amazing results" achieved by the Soviets in using "truth drugs," the program
focused on the identification and testing of such drugs for use in interrogations and in the
recruitment of agents. The research included laboratory experiments on animals and human
subjects involving Anabasis aphylla, scopolamine, and mescaline in order to determine their
speech-inducing qualities. Overseas experiments were conducted as part of the project.
The project expanded substantially during the Korean War, and ended shortly after the war,
in 1953.
2. Project BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE
The earliest of the CIA's major programs involving the use of chemical and biological
agents, Project BLUEBIRD, was approved by the Director in 1950. Its objectives were:
(a) discovering means of conditioning personnel to prevent unauthorized extraction of
information from them by known means, (b) investigating the possibility of control of an
individual by application of special interrogation techniques, (c) memory enhancement, and (d)
establishing defensive means for preventing hostile control of Agency personnel. [4]

As a result of interrogations conducted overseas during the project, another goal was added - the evaluation of offensive uses of unconventional interrogation techniques, including
hypnosis and drugs. In August 1951, the project was renamed ARTICHOKE. Project
ARTICHOKE included in-house experiments on interrogation techniques, conducted "under
medical and security controls which would ensure

[4] CIA memorandum to the Select Committee, "Behavioral Drugs and Testing," 2/11/75.

-68that no damage was done to individuals who volunteer for the experiments. [5] Overseas
interrogations utilizing a combination of sodium pentothal and hypnosis after physical and
psychiatric examinations of the subjects were also part of ARTICHOKE.
The Office of Scientific Intelligence (OSI), which studied scientific advances by hostile
powers, initially led BLUEBIRD/ARTICHOKE efforts. In 1952, overall responsibility for
ARTICHOKE was transferred from OSI to the Inspection and Security Office (I&SO),
predecessor to the present Office of Security. The CIA's Technical Services and Medical
Staffs were to be called upon as needed; OSI would retain liaison function with other
government agencies. [6] The change in leadership from an intelligence unit to an operating
unit apparently reflected a change in emphasis; from the study of actions by hostile powers
to the use, both for offensive and defensive purposes, of special interrogation techniques -primarily hypnosis and truth serums.

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Representatives from each Agency unit involved in ARTICHOKE met almost monthly to
discuss their progress. These discussions included the planning of overseas interrogations [8]
as well as further experimentation in the U.S.
Information about project ARTICHOKE after the fall of 1953 is scarce. The CIA maintains
that the project ended in 1956, but evidence suggests that Office of Security and Office of
Medical Services use of "special interrogation" techniques continued for several years
thereafter.
3. MKNAOMI
MKNAOMI was another major CIA program in this area. In 1967, the CIA summarized the
purposes of MKNAOMI:
(a) To provide for a covert support base to meet clandestine operational requirements.
(b) To stockpile severely incapacitating and lethal materials for the specific use of TSD
[Technical Services Division].
(c) To maintain in operational readiness special and unique items for the dissemination of
biological and chemical materials.
(d) To provide for the required surveillance, testing, upgrading, and evaluation of
materials and items in order to assure absence of defects and complete predictability of
results to be expected under operational conditions. [9]
Under an agr