1/18/2017

My RCGroups

BeginnerAutogyro/Gyrocopter/GyroplaneQuestionsandAnswersRCGroups

Forums

More

AircraftExoticandSpecialInterest

Search
AutoGyros

Discussion BeginnerAutogyro/Gyrocopter/GyroplaneQuestionsandAnswers

Page 1 of 11
Thread Tools

Next

Last

Search this Thread

This thread is privately moderated by mnowell129, who may elect to delete unwanted replies.

#1

Jan 24, 2006

mnowell129

Beginner Autogyro/Gyrocopter/Gyroplane Questions and

Answers
Ok,here'sastartingpointforastickyonAutogyros.
IfIleftsomeoneout,I'msorry,Ididthisveryquickly.
Myproposalisthatwealleditonthisforafewdaysand
comeupwithsomethingthatwecanlivewithsowe
don'thavetoanswerthesamequestionsoverandover.
SowhatIaskisthatiftherearecorrections,letmeknowandI
willedittheoriginalandrepostuntilwegetsomethingwecanlivewith.
I'dliketonotdragthisoutforeversocanwegetitdonein1week,
thenwecanfigureouthowtomakeitasticky.....
mick

GyrocopterQuestions

1)Whatisagyrocopter,autogyro,Autogiro,gyroplane?
Arotarywingedaircraftthatderivesliftfromanonpowered
rotor(s)andispulled(orpushed)forwardbyaconventionalengine/propellor.
Thenamesmeanthesamethingbutarevariousmarketing/registered
namesforbrandnameaircraft.(allKleenexistissue,butnotall
tissueisKleenex....)

2)Aretheyhardtofly?
Somewherebetweenanadvanced4channelairplaneandahelicopter.
Typicallytheyareconsiderednotbeginnermodels.

3)Aretheyhardtodesign?Don'tIjustputsomehelicopterblades
ontopofmyairplane?
YESandNO,respectively.Mosthelibladesarethewrongairfoil
andthewrongaspectratioforgyrocopterblades.
http://www.aerobalsa.comisagoodsourceforgyrocopterblades.

4)IhaveanoldfuselageIwanttoconverttoanautogyro,what
doyousuggest?
Notto.Buildagyrofromplansorakitfirsttolearnthedifferent
flightcharacteristics.Thensetouttodesignyourown.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?469368BeginnerAutogyroGyrocopterGyroplaneQuestionsandAnswers

1/8

1/18/2017

BeginnerAutogyro/Gyrocopter/GyroplaneQuestionsandAnswersRCGroups

5)Whatarethecontrols?

Severaltypes:

Fixedrotorwithrudderandelevatorcontrol.
Thisisverydifficultwithasinglerotor,very

easywithadual(sidebyside)rotor.

Atiltingspindlecycliccontrolrotor("directcontrol")
thattiltsforaileronandusedrudderandelevator.

Atiltingspindlecycliccontrolrotor("directcontrol")

thattiltsforaileronandelevatorwitharegularrudder.

Arotorthatuses"helicopter"typecontrolslikeaswashplate.

6)WhatkindofpowerdoIneed?

Generallythrustneedstobegreaterthanweight.

7)Whatkindof"wing"loading?

Thediskloadingistheweightofthemodeldividedby

theareaofthewholerotordisk.~23Ounces/sqfootfor

twobladedsystems,~34ouncespersqfor3or4bladedsystems.

8)Aretherekits?Plans?

Yes

TheSlowGtwinhttp://www.slowg.com/

ThePtGyrofamily:http://www.flyingbalsa.com

G3PO,BEGiandGT17:http://www.mickeynowell.com

SeveralfromArizonaAutogyro:http://www.autogyrorc.com/

TheDAG01http://home.att.net/~imsofaman/dave_...c_homepage.htm

Whopper
theplans:

http://www.vth.de/Modellbau/FMT/dow...t_downloads.asp

directlinktopart1and2oftheplan:

http://www.vth.de/Modellbau/FMT/dow...Whopper%201.pdf
http://www.vth.de/Modellbau/FMT/dow...Whopper%202.pdf

linktothethreadatrcgroups:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=487131

linktogermanthreadincl.commentsofcreator:

http://www.rclineforum.de/forum/thr...c7b3a355edcd0e9

Mini/micromum

here'sthelinktothelatestversionoftheMicromumplans:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...79&postcount=69

andthisoneisfortheMinimum:

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=543196

Twirl:https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...3&postcount=63

9)Whereismoreinformation?

Almostanyquestionyoumightaskhasalreadybeenanswered

atoneoftheseplaces.Usethesearchfeatureto

lookforspecificwordslike"collectivepitch"or

"directcontrol"or"advancingblade"andyouwill

findmanyquestionsandanswers.

http://www.autogyro.com/

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_191/tt.htm

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=224

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/f59p1/

http://rchangout.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=113

10)Whichonesaretheeasiesttogettofly?

TheSlowG,Twirl,Whopper,andanyoftheplansforthedualrotordesignslike
theSpinDoctorfromflyingmodels.

11)I'vedesignedascaleBensen/Brock/LittleNellieand

itwon'tfly.What'swrong?

Gyrocoptersdon'tscalewell,namelythemastanglehasto

change,thebladepitchhastobenegativeratherthan
positiveandthecontrolsystemshavetochangeto

allowfortheincreasedcontrolresponsefromtherotor

whentheyarescaleddowntomodelsize.

12)Igota____fromagaragesale,shouldItrytoflyit?

Probablynot.Buildamoderndesign,learntoflyit,then

decideifyoushouldattemptthe_____yougotfromthesale.

13)Ireallywanttobuildascale_______,howshouldIstart?

Buildaknowndesignfirst,learntoflyit,thenreevaluate.

Gyrocoptersreallydemandadifferent(notparticularlyharder,

justdifferent)skilllevel,especially
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?469368BeginnerAutogyroGyrocopterGyroplaneQuestionsandAnswers

2/8

1/18/2017

BeginnerAutogyro/Gyrocopter/GyroplaneQuestionsandAnswersRCGroups

justdifferent)skilllevel,especially

withregardtothelefttransmitterstick(throttleandrudder).

Tryingtolearnthisonanunknownnewaircraftischallenging.

14)Whatisthebestwaytogetstarted?

Buildakitoraknowngooddesignappropriateforyourskill

level.Ifyouareanbeginner/newairplanepilottryatwinrotorfirst,Twirl,SlowG
orWhopper.

IfyouhavebeyondbeginnerskillswithairplanesthePTGyros

aregreat.Ifyouhaveadvancedskilland/orhaveflownhelicopters

G3POandBEGiaregoodperformers.Noneofthesemodelsareappropriate

forrankbeginnerstoR/C.ThemodelsfromArizonaaremorescale

orientedifthatisyourdesire.

15)Aretheresomegyrocopterflyins?

Yes

GenerallyinMarchatSpringHillFlorida,

SeptemberinMuncieIndianiaand

newthisyearLakelandFloridain??

InterExhttp://www.interex.com/(ThankstoStephanB)

16)WhenItrytotakeoffandIpullupelevatormymodeljust

rollsoveronit'sbackanddoesthefunkychicken,what'swrong?

Yourrotorhasnotreachedfull"autorotation".Thisisthecondition
wheretherotorisnotjustwindmillingslowlybutturningatavery
highrate.Inthisconditionthecentrifigalforcesarehighenough

fortherotortobestableanditisproducingenoughlifttofly
andkeepitselfspinning.Itisimportanttogettherotorinto

autorotationbeforeflyingandallowthemodeltoflyonitsown

withoutupelevator.

17)Whatarethedifferentrotorconfigurationslike?

Singleuncontrolledrotor:Verydifficulttogettoflywell.Requires

carefuldesigntogettrimmed.Controlledbyrudder/elevatorandthrottle(RET),
orinthesmallestcasethrottleandrudderonly.Hastheleastmanuverability.

Dualuncontrolledrotor:Easiesttoconstructandgetflying.Controlledby

RET.Stableandmanuverable,capableofloopsandrolls.Poorcontrolatlow

airspeedsincetherotoriscapableofmakingliftatalmostnoairspeedbut
thecontrolsurfacesloseeffectiveness.Nocontrolatallinverticaldescent.

SingleTiltingSpindleRotor:Requiresalittlemoreattentioninbuilding.

Muchmorerotorcontrolespeciallyatlowairspeed.Moresensitivecontrolsand

capableofaerobatics(loops,rolls,stallturns,etc.)Goodcontrolin

verticaldescents.Mostscaleappearingrotorhead.Easiesttohandfabricate.
Therotorisslightlyunstableinmodelsizesothesemodelshavehorizontal

stabstomaketheaircraftstable.Needheavyduty(metalgear)servos.

Single"Heli"Rotor:Morecomplicatedheaddesign,requiresattention

todetailinassemblyoftherotorhead.Verystablerotorso

modeldoesn'tneedhorizontalstab.Verymanuverable,especiallyatlow

airspeeds.Nospecialservorequirements.Somepartsmustbecommercially

purchased.

Hybrids:Therearecombinationdesigns,suchasatiltingspindlehead

withaflybar.Thesepossesssomeofthequalitiesofbothtypesofmodels.

18)Whyaren'tthereanyscale"Bensen"typegyrocopters?

Thebensenstylerotorheadbecomesunstableinmodelform,mainlybecause
ithastospinmuchfasterandhaslessmass.Thecontrolsgettoosensitive

forahumantofly,muchlikeanairplanewithsuchahighrollratethat

youcan'tkeepitlevel.Thesameproblemhappenswithmodelhelicopters

andthisisthereasonthemodelhelicoptershaveflybars,totamethe
highcontrolratesthatdon'texistinfullsizedaircraft.Thisprinciple

canbeillustratedbytryingtobalanceabroominthepalmofyourhand

andthentryingtobalancea1/10scalebroominyourhand.

19)Whydomodelrotorbladeshavetobesettonegativeincidencewhile
fullsizedgyrocoptershavepositiveincidence?

Thelifttodragratio(L/D)ofsmallairfoilsismuchworsethanbiggerairfoilsdue
to"ReynoldsNumber"effects.Autorotationisonlyachievedatclosetothebest
L/Dfortheairfoilwhichismuchlower(atnegativeincidencerelativetotherotor
shaft)anglesthanfullsized.Therotorbladestillhasapositive

angleofattackwithrespecttotheairsincethewholerotoristiltedback.

Thisalsoexplainsthemodelhelibladesarepoorerperformersthanpurpose

builtgyrocopterbladeswithhighL/Dratios.

20)Whydomodelshaveagreatermastanglethanfullsized?

Sameproblemas#19,littleairfoilsarelessefficientandneedadifferent
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?469368BeginnerAutogyroGyrocopterGyroplaneQuestionsandAnswers

3/8

1/18/2017

BeginnerAutogyro/Gyrocopter/GyroplaneQuestionsandAnswersRCGroups

Sameproblemas#19,littleairfoilsarelessefficientandneedadifferent

angleofattack.

21)Whatistheadvancingblade?AsymmetricLift?

Thisistheconditionwheretheforwardgoingbladeisgetting

morewindthantheonegoingbackwardscausingadifference(asymmetry)

inlift.Ifyoudonothingaboutittheadvancingbladewill

riseupinfront(duetogyroscopicprecessionoftherotor)

tryingtofliptheaircraftupvertically.Toflysuccessfully

youhavetoapplycyclicpitchsotheadvancingbladehaslessangleof

attackthantheretreatingblade.Thecyclicpitchcanbeeither"flapping"

withaflappinghinge,or"feathering"withafeatheringhinge.Uncontrolled

rotorsuseflappinghinges,orinthecaseofdualrotorslettheasymmetriclift
canceleachotherout.Controlledrotors,tiltingspindleorswashplates,use
featheringtocancelasymmetriclift.Thisisaslightamountofdownelevator

ineithercase.Thisisanadvancedtopicwithlotsmoretoreadinthereferences

above.

22)WhereshouldtheCGbe?Whatisthe"hangangle"?

TheCGshouldbedirectlybelowthecenteroftherotorwhenitis
placedhorizontally,orslightlyaheadofthatwithmodelsthathave
ahorizontalstab.Thisgaverisetotheconceptof"hangangle",

methodthatdescribeshowfardownthemodelhangswhenhungfrom

therotor.Generallythehangangleisroughlythemastrakeangle,

whichresultsintheCGbeingcenteredunderthecenteroftherotor.

23)What'sthedifferencebetweenapullerorpusherlayout?

Thepullerresultsinashorter(height)modelthathasbettergroundhandling.

Thepusherlayoutisharderinmodelformbecausemodelpropellers
arelongerrelativetothemodelsizethanfullsize.Thismakesgetting

theoverallproportionsmoredifficultandgettingthethrustangles

morechallenging.Thepusherlayoutisshorterinlengthwhichworsensthe

stability,thismakesthemoresensitivemodelrotorsevenmore

sensitive.Mostmodels,expeciallyforbeginners,arepullerlayout.

24)Canyouhandlaunch?

Yes.Mostmodelshandlaunchwell,especiallywithaslightbreeze.

25)Howabouthighwinds?Crosswinds?

Highwindsareokaslongastheyaren'thigherthanthemaxairspeed
whichisususallyprettylow.Downwindturnsanddownwindpasses
tendtogetthegyroreallymovingandneedattentiontothethrottle.
Crosswindsaretheworstpossibleconditionforgyrocopters.Rise

ofGroundtakeoffsarepossibleifyoucanlineuproughly(1020degrees)

withthewind.Otherwiseit'sbesttohandlaunchdirectlyinthewind.

Landingswithcrosswindsareusuallynotaproblem,justlandintothewind
becauseyouhavenorollout,soyoucanlandacrossmostrunwayseasily.

26)Engineoutsituations?

Tiltingspindleandswashplatecontrolledmodelshavefullcontrol.Youhave

alimitedglideangle(about1:1,or45degreesdown),butyoucanflare

toazerorollouttouchdown.Elevatorcontrolledmodelsareusually

lesscontrollablewithpoweroffandtendtobebuiltlightsothey
canjustdescendverticallytoa"plop"landing.Alittleforward

speedreducesthesinkrate.

27)Touchandgoes?

Easily.

28)Doescollectivepitchhelp?

Notmuch.Ithasbeendoneanddoesn'taddmuchtotheoverall
flyability,althoughitdoesreducethespinuptime.Theadded

complexityisforadvancedmodellers.

29)Whataboutprerotation?

Mostmodelsusethe"handflip"method.Somemodelshave
usedadrillorothermotortospinup.Therearenomodels

thathavebuiltinprerotation,butI'mworkingonit.
Last edited by mnowell129; Aug 08, 2008 at 03:23 AM. Reason: Updated plans links for whopper,minimum and twirl, Link to InterEx

Jan 24, 2006

#2

mnowell129
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?469368BeginnerAutogyroGyrocopterGyroplaneQuestionsandAnswers

4/8

1/18/2017

BeginnerAutogyro/Gyrocopter/GyroplaneQuestionsandAnswersRCGroups

Nofairyousneakyreaders.Ifyou'regoingtoreadpleasecommentyeaor
nay...eithertospecificitemsortheentireidea.....
IfyouarenewbiepleaseaddquestionssotheycanmakeitintotheFAQ.
I'mjusttryingtohelpusall,newbiesgetasetofanswers,oldiesdon'thaveto
answerthesamesetofnewbiequestions....

#3

Jan 24, 2006

PT Gyro
HiMickey,

Ithinkthisisagreatidea.
Youhavealsocoveredthebasicsverywell.

OneitemthatmayneedtobeaddedisthatMikefromAerobalsahassome
plansavailablesincetakingovertheautogyro.comwebsite.
Thisshouldbeaddedtothe"KitsandPlans"

Takecare,
John

#4

Jan 24, 2006

mnowell129
Quote:

OriginallyPostedbyPTGyro
HiMickey,

Ithinkthisisagreatidea.
Youhavealsocoveredthebasicsverywell.

OneitemthatmayneedtobeaddedisthatMikefromAerobalsahas
someplansavailablesincetakingovertheautogyro.comwebsite.
Thisshouldbeaddedtothe"KitsandPlans"

Takecare,
John
Isawthathewasgoingtohavetheplans,butdon'tseethemlisted.Does
anyoneknowwhathehasandhowtogetthem?
mickey

#5

Jan 24, 2006

rc yer

Auto-rotation
Mickey
Nicejob.Ifallwouldheedandbuildaprovenmodelfirst,theywouldlot'smore
fun.
Mightaddwhatgettingintoautorotationissotheywillknowwhenitreadyto
takeoff.Notjustpowerupandtrytogo.

Thanks,
Jim

Jan 25, 2006

#6

tnt2000
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?469368BeginnerAutogyroGyrocopterGyroplaneQuestionsandAnswers

5/8

1/18/2017

BeginnerAutogyro/Gyrocopter/GyroplaneQuestionsandAnswersRCGroups

Mickey,
Ifyoudidthisearlier,Iwouldhavesucceededafterveryfewtrials....
Iamgettingcloseandhookedontoit.
Thanksforsharinggreatstartpoint.

Junhee.

#7

Jan 25, 2006

johnvb
OK,here'saquestionfromanexperiencedfixedwingflyerbutanautogyro
newbie:

I'mlookingforabriefdescriptionofallthedifferenthead/rotorconfigurationsand
theircapabilities.

#8

Jan 25, 2006

iter

Are there any water-based autogyro models?

Yes.Amongothers,StacyGillmorehasdoneaSlowStickFlyingBoat
conversionwithSlowGrotors.

Moredetailshere:https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...04#post5578790

Images

View all Images in thread

Views: 4057
Photo credit: Chris Byrd

Last edited by iter; Jun 06, 2006 at 09:49 AM.

#9

Jan 25, 2006

mnowell129
Quote:

OriginallyPostedbyiter
Itwouldbeexcellentifwecouldmakethisthreadsticky,andhave
someonewithpermissionstodeletechitchat(likethispost)aftersaya
week.Itwouldworkbestifwekeptthisthreadshortanddigestable,
liketheindexthreadoverinthemicroforum
(https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84771)

Ari.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?469368BeginnerAutogyroGyrocopterGyroplaneQuestionsandAnswers

6/8

1/18/2017

BeginnerAutogyro/Gyrocopter/GyroplaneQuestionsandAnswersRCGroups

Iagree.Iplanonmakingitstickyanddeletingthechatterafteraboutaweek.I
thoughtI'dgiveitaweeksoalltheregularposterscouldcommentandhelpme
withstuffthatImighthavemissed.Ioftenwriteprofessionaldocumentsthatare
peerreviewedbeforerelease,IthoughtI'dextendthe
samecourtesytoyouguys.Youknowhowitiswhenthereisasingleauthor
tryingtorepresentmanyopinions,sometimestoesgetsmashed

#10

Jan 25, 2006

mnowell129
Editedtheopeningposttoaddsomequestionsandanswers.
Thankstoallwhohavecontributedsofar.
mickey

#11

Jan 27, 2006

M. Smith
All,

Iwillbeaddingplanstomywebsitesoon.HereiswhatIhave:

SimpleG
Sparky
Twist
SuitcaseMinnie
CiervaC30
Deltahub,4bladefor.25sizemodel

Allare1sheetplansexceptfortheC30,whichisa2sheetplan.Fornow,pics
andinstructionsareonJimBaxter'sAutogyro.comwebsite.Theplansheetsare
availablefromme.AnyoneinterestedcanemailmedirectlyuntilIgetitalllisted
onmywebsite.

Mickey,yourFAQisgreat.Thanksforyourthoughtfulcontributiontoourhobby.

MikeSmith

#12

Jan 27, 2006

mnowell129
Quote:

OriginallyPostedbyM.Smith
Mickey,yourFAQisgreat.Thanksforyourthoughtfulcontributionto
ourhobby.

MikeSmith
Thanks,andyou'rewelcome.
I'mhavingfun.

Feb 14, 2006

#13

dougmontgomery

Great Idea Mickey

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?469368BeginnerAutogyroGyrocopterGyroplaneQuestionsandAnswers

7/8

1/18/2017

BeginnerAutogyro/Gyrocopter/GyroplaneQuestionsandAnswersRCGroups

ThisIsgreat,GoodjobMick.
Last edited by dougmontgomery; Jul 27, 2006 at 02:54 PM. Reason: delete

#14

Feb 15, 2006

Bsouthwell
Mickey,
TheFAQisgreat!!Very,Verygood!Thanksforyourfinework.Ihavegottogive
theGyro'satry.

Bill

#15

Feb 15, 2006

mnowell129
Quote:

OriginallyPostedbyBsouthwell
Mickey,
TheFAQisgreat!!Very,Verygood!Thanksforyourfinework.Ihave
gottogivetheGyro'satry.

Bill
You'rewelcome.Nicetoseesomeonefromhome.MyfamilyisfromKosciusko,
IgrewupinJackson,wenttoschoolinStarkville,stillhavefamilyinCarthage
andGrenada.

Page 1 of 11

Next

Last

Return to Auto Gyros

Quick Reply
Message:

PostQuickReply

GoAdvanced

Previous Thread | Next Thread

Similar Threads
Category

Thread

zagi advice, questions, answers

T-rex fuselage questions and answers.
Tiny-X Building - Tips, Questions, Answers, and Pictures
Tiny-X Building - Tips, Questions, Answers, and Pictures
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?469368BeginnerAutogyroGyrocopterGyroplaneQuestionsandAnswers

8/8