DC vs. Marvel Abstract Entities

DC vs.
Marvel: Abstract Entities

https://foxhugh.com/2016/03/20/abstract-entities-marvel-vs-dc/
This essay will explore the nature of abstract entities, their relative place in the hierarchy of cosmic
entities and then compare and contrast abstract entities in more detail in the DC and Marvel
universes. Certain entities are the anthropomorphic equivalent of what is known in philosophy as an
abstract object. In the DC and Marvel universe these types of beings are generally referred to as
cosmic entities. All abstract entities are cosmic entities but not all cosmic entities are abstract
entities. For example, the Celestials (Marvel) have permanent bodies and are cosmic entities but not
abstract entities. How do you know if you are dealing with a cosmic entity or an abstract entity?
There are three big tests.
1) If the entity has to shape shift in order to have a different appearance to fit different audiences
then you are probably dealing with a cosmic entity that is not an abstract entity. If the entity appears
to be different to different beings automatically with no effort on the part of the entity then the entity
is probably an abstract entity. Mere mortals cannot perceive the abstract entity directly so they create
a concrete perception on their own as a perceptual filter.
Dream appears as a Martian version of Dream in The Sandman-Preludes and Nocturnes V1

(Vertigo).
DC vs. Marvel: Abstract Entities
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Dream then appears as a cat to a cat in The Sandman-Dream Country V3 (Vertigo).

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2) If the entity has a clear function that supersedes their personal whims and identity then you are
probably dealing with an abstract entity. Being an abstract entity in both the Marvel and DC
universes seems to be accompanied by a certain level of dehumanization. In The Wake, when the
original Dream dies and Daniel Hall, a mortal becomes the new Dream, the new Dream no longer
has the same feelings for his mother.
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Thanos (Marvel) decides to keep a physical body despite having infinite power due to the Infinity
Gauntlet. Mephisto (Marvel) reflects that this is a fatal flaw that will ultimately be the undoing of
Thanos. Why does Thanos do this?
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If you take on a role in the universe then perhaps the being becomes amoral and more duty bound
and perhaps this is the reason Thanos does not ascend to the status of being an abstract entity. If
Thanos for example becomes death then Thanos cannot become the lover of death which is his main
goal in life! Conversely, Death is incapable of sharing her role with Thanos because of her status as
an abstract being. Abstract entities may sacrifice a certain degree of free will even as they become
more powerful. Do abstract entities lose their subjective nature and become more objectified?
Thanos may not understand this trade off consciously but senses this trade off at an unconscious
level. Anyway, this sort of trade off would make cosmic entities much more interesting! You get more
power over external reality and greater durability at the expense of your free will.
3) The entity may appear god like but the entities power level is absolutely independent of worship
and actually many abstract entities are totally unknown to any being that is not a cosmic entity. This
is especially true of the Seven Friendless (Marvel). Bast, the Egyptian Goddess, suffers due to a lack
of worship.
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Furthermore gods may begin in dream.

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DC
Type of Universe
The DC universe is Abrahamic. The highest being operates via aspects of his being and through
angels as agents. Many of the angels have Judeo-Christian names.
Highest Being
The Presence is the highest being in the DC universe and operates not only through abstract entities
but also uses aspects of his being and angels to manifest his will.
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Aspects of the Highest Being
The aspects of the Presence are at the top of the cosmic hierarchy in the DC Universe. The aspects
follow certain laws and if even very powerful cosmic entities try to violate the laws associated with
the aspects then disaster will follow. Are aspects of the highest being abstract entities? The highest
being in the DC universe seems to be beyond human understanding and beyond concepts of abstract
versus concrete objects. The highest being in the DC universe might even be the source of abstract
versus concrete objects. The Presence is mysterious and not easily classified. The Presence may
ultimately be noumenon as opposed to phenomena and by definition unknowable. The Presence
takes on a familiar form in order to explain itself.
The hand is one way the presence communicates and leaves a cryptic message "To know everything
is to know how much is not known" which could be interpreted as saying that total knowledge of
phenomena means we understand that noumenon is beyond our knowledge!
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The immortal and powerful Krona creates a machine that can peer through time and sees the Hand
of Creation but tries to see what happens before the Hand appears then evil is unleashed upon the
universe. This story seems to be a cosmic version of the Adam and Eve story. The apple represents
knowledge that is not meant for mortals. The Hand of creation represents knowledge that is not even
meant for immortals.
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The Source is the source of all creation and all being in the DC universe. Jack Kirby made the Source
very mysterious. Jim Starling, does what he always does with cosmic entities, and reduced the very
interesting Source into yet another predictable and boring slug fest cartoon character in Death of the
New Gods.
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The Source is guarded by the Source Wall.
The first version of the wall is less a wall than planetoids with giants bound to the planetoids.
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The latest version of the Source Wall looks more like a wall.
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The wall is very inappropriately turned into yet another slug fest device in Green Lantern Annual V5
#3. Black Hand controls the dead and uses his power to control the dead embedded in the Source
Wall.
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The Voice is divine will and the progenitor of the Word. The Voice is never heard but the Word is
very active in Swamp Thing V2 #168-170.
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Angels
The angels clearly have bodies. They have a singular appearance and do not change their appearance
for different audiences which is one of the hall marks of an abstract entity.
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Dumas is an angel that never talks and might be an aspect of silence.

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Gabriel is the lord of the cherubim and seraphim.
Garaquael is in charge of spirits.
Lucifer is a fallen angel and the adversary.
Michael Demiurgos controls the demiurge.
Raguel is the vengeance of God.
Raphael oversees humanity.
The Saint of Killers is an angel of death willed by God.
Spectre is an angel of vengeance.

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The Furies in the DC universe specialize in vengeance on those who have killed family members.
Abstract Entities
The Endless are the only cosmic entities in the DC universe that are clearly abstract entities.
Everything in the DC universe is below aspects of the highest being including the Endless. The
Endless do seem to be more powerful than gods. Gods fade as their nations and worshippers fade
and the Endless are well endless. The Endless are clearly less powerful than at least one angel.
Dream is clearly fearful of Lucifer. Lucifer is by far the most powerful of all the angels so being less
powerful than Lucifer does not mean the Endless are less powerful than all angels.
1) Destiny is the embodiment of predestination. Do abstract entities lose their subjective nature and
become more objectified as their power level increases? Destiny (Vertigo) does not appear to have
much in the way of free will and is generally considered to be the oldest and therefore the most
powerful of the Endless.
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2) Death is the embodiment of the end of life. Death is a psychopomp, guide to souls, unlike her
Marvel counterpart. Death generally dresses like in black casual clothes and wears a silver ankh on a
chain around her neck, and has a marking similar to the eye of Horus around her right eye.
Death explains what a lifetime is to someone who has managed to live fifteen thousand years!
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Death explains her role to Element Girl in The Sandman - Dream Country V3 (Vertigo).
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3) Dream is the embodiment of dreaming.

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Dream is tired of his role but his function is so much a part of who he is that he must engineer his
destruction through an unconscious series of events.
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Dream explains to Desire that abstract entities are a principle of causality rather than manipulators
of causality! Becoming part of the very firmament of the universe means a price must be paid.
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Abel (Vertigo) provides a short but incisive explanation of the secret of how immortality works for an
abstract entity.
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Lucifer (Vertigo) explains free will to Delirium (Vertigo) the nature of free will for abstract entities
and the choices seem bleak.
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4) Destruction is the embodiment of destruction and creation.
Destruction (Vertigo) walks away from his role in the universe and he tries to explain why he walked
away to his brother Dream (Vertigo).
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Destruction states, "Are not gross Bodies and Light convertible?" This is Newton's version of what
will eventually become the principle of Massenergy equivalence (E = mc2) that will eventually lead
to atomic weapons and a whole lot of destruction!
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5) Desire is the embodiment of emotion including love and hate.

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Desire explains her antipathy towards dream and her/his role to a moral supplicant in Endless
Nights (Vertigo).
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6) Despair is the embodiment of the emotion of despair.

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7) Delirium is the embodiment of madness. Delirium was Delight until she was transformed.
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Delirium was once Delight!

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In The Sandman: Overture #5, (8) Time is revealed as the father of dream. The equivalent of Time
in the Marvel universe is Eternity. (9) Night is the mother of Dream. (10) Dusk is a distant sister that
serves under Night.
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What is the first circle in relation to the other cosmic entities reviewed in this article? Delirium
swears by the first circle in Brief Lives.
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The Glory of the First Circle commends Dream in the name of the first circle in The Sandman -
Overture #6.
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Marvel
Type of Universe
The Marvel universe is essentially a dharmic universe i.e. there is a highest being but the highest
being works through abstract entities that represent laws and principles of the universe rather than
through direct agents. In Buddhism dharma means cosmic law and order. The Marvel universe has a
clock maker but once the clock was made the clock maker decided to leave the clock alone.
Highest Being
The highest being in the Marvel Universe is the One-Above-All not to be confused with the One-
Above-All (Celestial). The One-Above-All does not use an army of angels or aspects of his being as his
agents and solely relies on the Living Tribunal as his agent. There does not seem to be very much
communication between the One-Above-All and the Living Tribunal. The Living Tribunal generally
acts autonomously. Thanos and Warlock have a rare extended conversation with the One-Above-All
in Thanos-The Infinity Finale.
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Aspects of the Highest Being
There is no Marvel equivalent to the aspects of the highest being that exists in the DC universe. This
is because the Marvel universe is a dharmic universe which operates via laws rather than through the
direct will of the highest being.
Angels
There are angels in the Marvel universe but they have nowhere near the importance of angels in the
DC universe. The role of angels in the hierarchy of the Marvel universe is irrelevant given the
dharmic structure of the Marvel universe.
Abstract Entities
1) Anomaly creates bodies for abstract entities.
Anomaly first appears in Quasar V1 #20 and Anomaly is killed and replaced.
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The new Anomaly makes a deal with Oblivion in Quasar V1 #21.

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2) Death is the embodiment of the end of life. Death also exists in the DC universe and has similar
powers but is much more likeable. Death in the Marvel universe looks fearsome but takes on
different appearances and even different genders with different persons.
Death first appears in Captain Marvel V1 #26.

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3) Empathy is the embodiment of the emotion of empathy.
4) Enmity is the embodiment of conflict.

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5) Entropy is the embodiment of destruction.
Entropy first appears in Captain Marvel V4 #4 (2003).

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Entropy explains what he is in Captain Marvel V4 #5 (2003). Entropy has some serious daddy
issues.
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6) Eon nurtures sentient life. Eon first appears in Captain Marvel V1 #28.
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7) Is Epiphany the embodiment of madness? Epiphany first appears in Captain Marvel V4 #5.
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8) Epoch nurtures sentient life. Epoch first appears in Quasar V1 #27.

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9) Eternity is the embodiment of time of the universe.
Eternity's first appearance is in Strange Tales V1 #138.

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10) Eulogy is in charge of endings. Eulogy first appears in Captain Marvel V4 #25 (2004). Eulogy
seems to narrowly be in charge of comic book character endings. In the DC universe characters go to
Limbo but Eulogy guides characters to a mysterious glowing door instead.
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11) Expediency is in charge of quick solutions. Expediency first appears in Captain Marvel V4 #25
(2004).
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12) In-Betweener is the embodiment of duality. The In-Betweener first appears in Warlock V1 #9.
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13) Infinity is the embodiment of space in the universe.

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14) Is Kronos the defender of the universe?
Kronos first appears in The Invincible Iron Man #55.

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15) The Living Tribunal maintains the cosmic balance at a multiverse level. The Living Tribunal first
appears in Strange Tales #157 (1967).
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16) Lord Chaos is the embodiment of chaos. DC has the Lords of Chaos and Order but they seem to
be gods rather than abstract entities. Lord Chaos and Master Order both appear for the first time in
Marvel Two-in-One Annual #2 (1977).
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Lord Chaos and Master Order attempt to convince Galactus with argument and then force to once
again take on his role as the devourer of worlds and renounce his new role as a life bringer. Galactus
ultimately wins (Ultimates #6, 2016). Galactus is part of the cosmic hierarchy but not an abstract
entity. Galactus resembles Shiva the Destroyer in Hinduism. Both are destroyers but Shiva's roles are
much more complex and even contradictory. Shiva is part of a triad called the Trimurti that also
includes Brahmin and Vishnu. Galactus is part of a triad as well that includes Eternity and Death.
The Hindu dharmic universe has a superficial resemblance to the Marvel dharmic universe.
17) Master Order is the embodiment of order.
18) Mirage is the embodiment of nothingness. Mirage first appears in Iceman V1 #3.
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19) Mistress Love is the embodiment of love. Mistress Love first appears as a man that the
Enchantress falls in love with in Defenders V1 #107. Mistress Love is identified in the next issue,
Defenders V1 #108.
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20) Numinus is the embodiment of numinosity i.e. causes small changes to create awe in the
universe in the person affected. Numinus first appears in Power Pack V1 #51.
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21) Oblivion is the embodiment of nothingness. Oblivion has a brief cameo in Iceman V1 #1 but his
first important appearance is in Iceman V1 #3.
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22) Sire Hate is also known as Master Hate and is the embodiment of hate. Sire Hate first appears in
Infinity Gauntlet #3.
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23) Unbeing is the embodiment of un-creation. Unbeing first appears in Quasar V1 #18.
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Jim Starlin is the foremost creator of the over the top cosmic entity conflict and in marked contrast
with Neil Gaiman's emphasis on internal as opposed to external conflict. The Infinity Saga includes
the Infinity Gauntlet #1-6, Infinity War #1-6, Infinity Crusade #1-6, Warlock and the Infinity
Watch (1992) #7-10 & #18-22, Warlock Chronicles (1993) #1-5, and Marvel Comics Presents (1988)
#108-111 and uses the fist a cuff approach when dealing with cosmic entities.
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Since this article was posted, Marvel has added some layers to their cosmic hierarchy including the
Proemial Gods (Marvel) introduced in Annihilation - Heralds of Galactus #2. This suggests that in
some ways Galactus is like the New Gods in DC i.e. an inheritor of the universe from older Gods. I
would also add that the Proemial Gods appear to be exhibit more physicality and capriciousness as
opposed to their successors Galactus, Eternity and Death.
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In Ultimates 2 #2, Lord Chaos and Master Order destroy the Living Tribunal!
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In Ultimate 2 #3, Lord Chaos and Master use the In-Betweener to unite and become Logos (Marvel).
Logos (Greek) is an important concept in Greek philosophy. Logos (Christianity) in Christianity is
the title of Jesus Christ! Logos (Marvel) is surrounded by angelic wings suggesting visually that the
dharmic Marvel universe is becoming more Abrahamic!
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Comic Book Proposal: The Mad Immortals
Jim Starlin, to his credit, wrote the first modern cosmic entity story titled The Birth of Death
which was first published in Star Reach #1 in B&W in 1974. The story was reprinted and colorized by
Eclipse in Star Reach Classics #1. I read the original story in a head shop while I was still in high
school and the story just blew me away! I explore the impact of comic books on my life in my essay
titled Hugh Fox III Comic Book Autobiography. In the interests of comic book history I present the
Eclipse reprint version below.
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There are some visual similarities between the characters in the Starlin story and He-Man
characters. Death does resemble Skeletor visually. The unnamed muscular opponent of Death
resembles He-Man visually. He-Man was designed by Mark Taylor in 1976 which is two years after
The Birth of Death was published. Maybe Mark Taylor saw the story by Jim Starlin and got some
ideas or maybe not.
In the story, Death manages to kill all the mad immortals except seven of them! There are also seven
Endless! Maybe the seven mad immortals are the DC antimatter universe version of the Endless! I
really think Jim Starlin and Neal Gaiman should team up on the story of the Seven Mad Immortals!
Brian Michael Bendis in the comic book Alias (Marvel) goes back and forth from a more realistic art
style to a more cartoonish art style. The standard superhero story with an emphasis on superhero fist
a cuffs is presented in the more cartoonish style. The personal story of how mind control effected the
heroine Jessica Jones internally is drawn in a more realistic manner. Scott McCloud explains how
these two different art styles effect the reader at the cognitive level in Understanding Comics The
Invisible Art.
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Jim Starlin could write a story about the fights of the seven Mad Immortals and draw it in his fairly
realistic manner. Neil Gaiman provides a counterpoint story from an internal POV of the Seven Mad
Immortals in a more anime style. The comic book switches back and forth between the two story
lines and thus the first comic book using counterpoint is created! The following is my list of the
Endless of the anti-matter universe. All of the Mad Immortals have enhanced durability due to their
abstract entity status. The Mad Immortals see themselves as champions of life not mad but have
decided to appropriate the name Death has given them. The Anti-Matter universe is asleep and
dreaming unlike other universes. The Mad Immortals have learned how to manipulate this state of
affairs to their own advantage.
1) Amnesia has the power of memory manipulation on a planetary scale. Amnesia routinely erases
memories so Death has no trail to follow. Amnesia can insert memories to create a false trail but
generally erases memories. Amnesia can also scan the memories of any being.
2) Ghost has the power to make himself and the other Mad Immortals totally imperceptible to all
except Death who can see through this power but only if right next to the person using this power.
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3) Logos has super intelligence and is the leader of the group. Logos can also merge the Mad
Immortals into a single being that is omniscient and combines all the powers of the Mad Immortals
but only for a short period of time.
4) Machine can turn others into robots that serve the Mad Immortals on a planetary scale.
5) Mirror can make duplicates of himself or others. The duplicates of others retain all abilities and
powers but have to obey Mirror. Mirror can make thousands of copies. Mirror can also make
duplicates of objects and creates copies of money and resources such as weapons as needed.
6) Phobia can cause fear on a planetary scale and uses this to power distract Death.
7) Twilight has the power of metafictional transportation. Ghost can transport herself and others into
fictional realms that Death cannot enter. Ghost can only enter stories that have a critical mass of
followers and therefore can make the story manifest in the imagination of the universe. Normally
even abstract entities cannot enter the imagination of a universe but a sleeping universe is more
vulnerable to such transport than a universe that is awake. Ghost can also banish Death to a
metafictional realm for a time if Death is within her line of sight. Death can leave a fictional realm
once Death has finished the story. However, if Death does not finish a story successfully that is
according to the logic of the story then Death may be trapped in a story forever.
The Mad Immortals want to awaken the universe to create a being akin to Eternity in the Marvel
universe and therefore radically diminish the power of Death in the antimatter universe. Death must
destroy the Mad Immortals before their plan can be accomplished.
Conclusion
There are far fewer abstract entities in the DC universe than the Marvel universe. The abstract
entities in the DC universe are less likely to be involved in fist fights than the abstract entities in the
Marvel universe due largely to the influence of Neil Gaiman. The main conflict of the DC abstract
entities is between their sense of duty and their desire to be free rather than conflict with other
cosmic entities. Abstract entities occupy a more central role in a dharmic, Marvel universe than an
Abrahamic, DC universe. Abstract entities of the DC universe largely appear in The Sandman series.
Abstract entities in the Marvel universe appear prominently in the Infinity Saga which is the
brainchild of Jim Starlin and engage in more external as opposed to internal conflict.
Neil Gaiman decided to give all the Endless names starting with "D" after Daniel the Biblical prophet.
The letter D is the most negative letter in the alphabet. The letter D corresponds to the number 4,
and the planet Saturn or Pluto, and the principles of matter and death. The Chinese consider 4 to be
the most unfortunate number and avoid it at all costs because it sounds like "death" when
pronounced in Cantonese, and actually helps bring it about. It is perhaps our version of the unlucky
13 which adds up to 4(1+3) in numerology. The Endless do seem to be much more tragic than their
Marvel counterparts.
I think less is more when it comes to cosmic entities in general and abstract entities in particular. I
remember my first Galactus story way back when in Fantastic Four #48 and how special this story
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was. Galactus has been overused and so have cosmic entities in general in the Marvel universe. Also,
having Galactus get defeated over and over again makes him much less awe inspiring. I mean
Galactus is even defeated by Squirrel Girl in Squirrel Girl V1 #4.
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No, not really and actually the Squirrel Girl story might be my favorite Galactus story ever!
Abstract objectification as a superpower is explored at:
Abstract Objectification

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Dream appears as a Martian version of Dream in The Sandman-Preludes and Nocturnes V1

Dream then appears as a cat to a cat in The Sandman-Dream Country V3 (Vertigo).

Furthermore gods may begin in dream.

Aspects of the Highest Being

The Source is guarded by the Source Wall.

Dumas is an angel that never talks and might be an aspect of silence.

Gabriel is the lord of the cherubim and seraphim.

Garaquael is in charge of spirits.

Lucifer is a fallen angel and the adversary.

Michael Demiurgos controls the demiurge.

Raguel is the vengeance of God.

Raphael oversees humanity.

The Saint of Killers is an angel of death willed by God.

Spectre is an angel of vengeance.

3) Dream is the embodiment of dreaming.

4) Destruction is the embodiment of destruction and creation.

5) Desire is the embodiment of emotion including love and hate.

6) Despair is the embodiment of the emotion of despair.

Delirium was once Delight!

Aspects of the Highest Being

1) Anomaly creates bodies for abstract entities.

The new Anomaly makes a deal with Oblivion in Quasar V1 #21.

Death first appears in Captain Marvel V1 #26.

3) Empathy is the embodiment of the emotion of empathy.

4) Enmity is the embodiment of conflict.

5) Entropy is the embodiment of destruction.

Entropy first appears in Captain Marvel V4 #4 (2003).

8) Epoch nurtures sentient life. Epoch first appears in Quasar V1 #27.

9) Eternity is the embodiment of time of the universe.

Eternity's first appearance is in Strange Tales V1 #138.

13) Infinity is the embodiment of space in the universe.

14) Is Kronos the defender of the universe?

Kronos first appears in The Invincible Iron Man #55.

17) Master Order is the embodiment of order.

Comic Book Proposal: The Mad Immortals

Abstract objectification as a superpower is explored at:

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