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Nick: Hi there!

Nick Ortner here, New York Times Bestselling author of The Tapping
Solution and your host for this 8th annual Tapping World Summit. The video that
you are about to watch is truly one of the highlights of my career. It was an
incredible opportunity to sit down with my dear friend, my mentor, Dr. Wayne
Dyer. It was a chance to hear his wisdom and to talk specifically how he had used
EFT/Tapping, the subject of this Tapping World Summit, to change his life. As
you probably know, this great man left the earth on August 29th, 2015, and while
he is incredibly missed by all of us, I feel his wisdom and influence on a daily
basis. I believe his books, his speakings, this interview continues to guide us and
inspire us and I know that what mattered most to Wayne, what he spent four
decades trudging on the road, speaking all over the place, writing books, what
mattered most was that you found ways to change your life, was that you found
hope and possibilities, was that you knew that change was possible, that you had
within you a depth of courage, knowledge and transformation. Because of that,
because of his commitment we are honoring him by sharing this important
interview once again. I know I feel his influence every day, I hope you enjoy
listening to this enlightening conversation as much as I did. Enjoy!

Nick: Instead of a long introduction weve just been talking about some pain.

Wayne: I love you, man.

Nick: Thank you. Were going to do some tapping. Were going to get right into it.
There are people watching this video that have never seen tapping before. They
say, what are these kooks doing?

Wayne: Really? Im a big fan. I really am a big believer. I must saythen I asked,
because we were together down in Melbourne, Australia and I was giving a talk
and you were to follow me. The pain was so excruciating in my neck and in my
back that for the first time in 40 years I had to be taken off the stage. You went
right out there and did a whole tapping thing with a couple thousand people.

Nick: A couple thousand people, yep.

Wayne: You basically tapped for me, for the whole room. Thirty minutes later, or an hour
later, you did about an hour.

Nick: Yep.

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Wayne: I was back out onstage. I wasnt able to stand, but I was able to sit and go through
it. Then for the two weeks or so we were together in Australia we did tapping
every single day.
Nick: Yep. Theres so much I want to talk to you about. Youve been a mentor of mine
for the last its got to be 15 years now. It used to just be on my iPod. I couldnt get
you in person, so it was just putting the iPod in and listening.
Something that Ive seen in your talks and your body of work is the theme of
forgiveness throughout it, a really present theme. When we do the tapping, a big
concept of it is in letting go of these things. I deeply and completely love and
accept myself. Sometimes one of the things well tap on is forgiveness, to let go
of something thats affected us in the past. Talk to me about forgiveness. What
has it meant in your life and how has that concept played such a big part in your
Wayne: Mark Twain said that, Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the
heel that has crushed it. Its being able to send love. Its being able to have love
in your heart.
I must say, Nick, that forgiveness is probably the singleif you had to put one
word on why my life shifted when I was back in my thirties to a new direction, it
was because of my forgiveness.
My father, a man I never met, but he walked out on our family. My mother had
three boys under the age of four. It was the Depression. I was born in 1940. My
brothers were born in 1936, December, and then in 1938 in October and myself in
May of 1940. So three-and-a-half years she had three children, and this man just
left. He spent some time in prison. He was an alcoholic. He was abusive. He was
a womanizer.
When my mother brought me home from the hospital in 1940, my father had
moved in with another woman in Ann Arborwe lived in Detroit, about 40 miles
awayand left my oldest brother, who was just four, in charge of my other
brother, David, who was 16 months. My mother came home to that. I heard those
stories my whole life. I grew up with deep anger and resentment and hatred
towards someone who could treat a woman that way.
Consequently, I was put into a series of foster homes and an orphanage until I was
ten. My mother got us all back together again. All I ever did was I would have
dreams all the time about this man. For the first ten years of my life I didnt even
know what the word father meant because I lived in a place where nobody had
fathers, in an orphanage.
When I found out and then heard what he had done and how he had stolen from
people, everything about this man I had ever heard was evil. I havent got time to
tell the whole story, but I ended up at his grave in 1974. Ten years after he had
died I found out, and I went down to his grave.

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I actually went down there to do something else on his grave. I had no idea why I
was being sent to go down there. I rented a car. I went through a lot of trouble to
get down there. I stood on his gravesite in Biloxi, Mississippi, August 30, 1974.
The first two hours that I was there all I did was curse him and ask, how could
you possibly behave this way towards such a wonderful woman and have three
boys and never make a phone call, never even check on us? I get tearful now even
thinking about it.
I went back to the car to drive back to New Orleans and go back. I was teaching
up in New York at a university there, at St. Johns University. Something called
me back and said, go back to the grave. I got out of the car, went back to the
gravesite and the words came out of my mouth. I said, from this moment on I
send you love, I forgive you, I let go of it. I said, who am I to judge you for what
you did? You knew what you knew how to do given the conditions of your life,
and I send you love.
At that time I was 34 years old. I was overweight. I was drinking. My writing was
going nowhere. I had written some textbooks, but it wasnt the kind of writing
that I really wanted to do, I was in a relationship that wasnt working at all. I was
basically on an involuntary suicide mission the way I was living my life. I
wouldnt have lived another ten years probably.
Anyway, my life was pretty much out of control. I was a writer, but I wasnt
writing the way I wanted to write. My relationships, I wasnt very happy. I was
overweight, out of shape and so on. I left New Orleans, flew back to New York,
got an airplane and flew down to Ft. Lauderdale, and rented an apartment at the
Spindrift Motel on A1A in Ft. Lauderdale, Florida in 1974, September.
In 14 days, thats how long I had there, I wrote a book from cover to cover called
Your Erroneous Zones, which became the number one selling book of the entire
decade of the 70s, and today has probably 100 million copies in print all over the
world in something like 47 languages.
Everything in my life changed when I got rid of the hatred, the anger, the
bitterness, the rage. I used to wake up every night almost, Id be sweating and
angry and Id be seeing my father in a bar someplace going up to him and
grabbing him and saying, How could you do that?
The reason I went to my fathers grave is I just wanted to see the death certificate.
I wanted to see if it was acknowledged that he had three children. It was. My
name was on there. He had died of cirrhosis of the liver at the age of 49. Even as
we sit here now, I can feel his presence around me. I did a film about him called
My Greatest Teacher. He was my greatest teacher, because if I hadnt been able to
get that rage, that hatred, that anger out of me my life would have continued on
that path.

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Everything shifted in my life. I started running. I got into a real good exercise
routine. I gave up drinking. I got into a beautiful relationship. My writing took
off. Erroneous Zones becamethe next one was Pulling Your Own Strings.
Today its 41 books later. I can attribute all of that to forgiveness. If youve got
something in your heart thats anything other than love, youve got to get it out. I
think thats a big part of what tapping is, is helping people get that out.
Nick: It is. It is. Ive heard you tell that story probably a hundred times now and it
doesnt stop touching me.
Wayne: Yeah, me either.
Nick: Every time it just reminds us, who do I need to forgive, what do you need to let
go? There are a couple things you shared that struck me as they relate to tapping.
One is when we start tapping we tap on whats called the negative, or what I like
to call the truth, how we feel.
If someone came to me and they were angry we would say, Even though I have
all this anger, I have this rage towards my father and Im so pissed off at him.
Sometimes we even curse and just really feel that emotion to experience it in the
body, and then do the tapping to let it go. You did a very similar thing at the
gravesite, where you had to have those two hours of expressing that rage.
Wayne: You cant imagine the rage that I went through there.
Nick: Theres no video footage of that.
Wayne: I went there to piss on his grave. I was so filled with anger, and I felt that was
what was drawing me to him. My other two brothers didnt care. Its interesting.
They had no interest whatsoever. My oldest brother remembered him and would
say he was just an asshole. Just let it go.
When my mother got us all back together when I was ten, I couldnt even bring
his name up she was so filled with rage. She just passed away about a year ago.
She was 96. I just wonder if shes reconnected.
I will reconnect with my father because I feel his presence around me all the time.
I really feel that he truly was the greatest teacher I ever had, and I think all of that
rage is something that I had to express. Now I have nothing but love for him. Its
like theres two sides to every story. Who knows what his childhood was like? I
know that he was abandoned when he was a kid. I know that he was abused. That
was his way of reacting to it.
Nick: I like to look at people and sayIve had so much experience working with
people, and walking into someone that has this issue and all of a sudden you
uncover all these traumas that you just never know when you see them walking
down the street. Oh my gosh, the things that they went through.
You see enough of that, as I know youve seen. You walk around and go, you
know that person that was rude on the plane or that was angry here, angry there,

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theyre just working out their old traumas, the same demons that were all
working through.
Wayne: It just depends on what you decide to have in your heart. Thats what Ive learned.
Thats where I am at this stage in my life is if we can fill ourselves with love and
appreciation for, and be in a state of gratitude.
Really, Nick, it boils down to what do you have inside? Every event of your life
you have an opportunity to be in a state of gratitude for it. You would think that a
ten-year-old boy who was filled with rage and everything. But as I stepped back,
and Ive just written a whole book about this called I Can See Clearly Now.
Looking back, I can see that when we are in these places where we think things
shouldnt be going the way they are, or we think that its unfortunate or somehow
were being punished or its just not fair and all those kinds of things, thats the
time to be in a state of gratitude. Thats the time to just say, theres something in
this for me. Everything doesnt just have to smell good and be right in order to be
thankful for it. You can be thankful for all of those experiences.
So many of the experiences that Ive had in my life, while I was going through
them I was unhappy about them. I can step back and look at them from the
perspective of today. I wouldnt be doing this interview if I hadnt had that
experience with my father.
Whos to say, seriously, in a universe that has no beginning and no end, thats
infinite, so we have an infinite number of times to go through this life experience,
whos to say that my fathers whole life purpose wasnt to come in, behave the
way that he did in order to teach his youngest son how to forgive, and then he
could teach millions of other people to do the same. Who knows how the whole
universe works? Who am I to be judging any of that?
Nick: Theres a signup sheet for a drunk asshole.
Wayne: Thats right. Right.
Nick: They said, yeah, I can do the job.
Wayne: Right, exactly.
Nick: Its going to be hard. Youre going to be a real jerk.
Wayne: Yeah, right.
Nick: Id love to do some tapping on forgiveness. Last year for the Tapping World
Summit we sat down with Louise Hay, who you know very well. People were
very moved. She brought in a certain energy when she tapped on stuff. I would
love to doIll lead through a tapping, if you be my echo, to help people out
there forgive.
Lets do this. It doesnt have to always be a grand thing. We dont expect to
forgive our fathers for decades of abuse in one round of tapping. Sometimes it
happens, but lets just pick a minor thing to forgive. Somebody who annoyed you

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a week ago, or something that youre holding onto your heart where you want to
let go of a little bit.
Everyone out there watching pick something that you want to let go of. Pick
something that happened recently. Pick someone you have anger towards. Pick
something where you go, you know what, I want to experience a little forgiveness
in my heart. Really feel that. I think one of the great things about tapping is really
going to that feeling. Feeling the anger and going, where is it? Where do I have it
in my body? What is it that Im holding onto? Well do tapping together.
Tapping the side of the hand:
SH: Even though I have all this anger in my heart,
I deeply and completely love and accept myself.

Even though its so hard to forgive this person,

I choose to let go now.

Even though Ive been holding onto so much anger,

I choose to release it now.

EB: This anger,

SE: Towards this person,
UE: Or this thing that happened,
UN Its so hard to let it go,
CH: Because I feel that I was right,
CB: And I dont want to forgive them,
UA: Because I dont want to condone this behavior,
TH: But its time to release this anger,

EB: Its time to let go,

SE: Even just a little bit,
UE: Releasing this anger,
UN: Releasing this pain,
CH: From every cell in my body,
CB: Letting go,
UA: Letting it all go,
TH: Right now.
Deep breath. Its in those little moments where we let go, where we forgive.
Wayne: Yeah. Even just that little bit. I was thinking about someone else who has done
some things that I have felt upset about. I was thinking about that as we were
doing the tapping, and I felt more peaceful about it.
Nick: You mean you still get upset at people?

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Wayne: Absolutely, yeah.
Nick: I thought you had reached enlightenment. Oh boy.
Wayne: I have. Enlightenment is part of it.
Nick: Enlightenment is part of it, absolutely.
Wayne: Yeah, right.
Nick: I want to talk about the physical body. I think one of the big breakthroughs in
tapping is that were not just having these experiences in our head. Were thinking
about them, but were also activating the somatic body response. Were calming
the amygdala. Were having that relaxation response from doing the tapping while
focusing on our challenge.
I know in your life, you mentioned before, your physical body has been a big part
of it from where you turned it around at 34 and started to exercise. Tell me, I
know you ran eight miles a day for how long was it?
Wayne: I ran eight miles a day for 22 years without missing one day.
Nick: Can I just have you tell the story of the plane? It just cracks me up to no end. Talk
about emotion and dedication.
Wayne: Some people call it obsessive. I just say, look, you brush your teeththats what I
used to say, you brush your teeth every day and you dont call that obsessive. You
go to the bathroom every day. You dont say youre obsessively going to the
One of the things I did every day was run. I ran eight miles when I started, and I
stayed with it for 22 years until my wife said to me, she said I dont think you
could miss a day. She said, I would be much more impressed with you if you
could not run one day. So I said, okay, I wont run today. That was it. I didnt run
that day, and she was in shock. Then I ran seven more years without missing any
until it was 29 years. I ran every day eight miles for 29 years, probably longer
than youve been alive. Almost.
Nick: Almost, almost.
Wayne: I was flying down to Australia, and theres an international dateline. You have the
same day twice and then you miss a day. On the way down there you miss a day.
Its Tuesday and then its Thursday. I thought, oh my god, Ive missed a day. So I
got up out of my seat. First of all, I ran up and down the aisle until the flight
attendant said, you cant do this. This was on Qantas Airlines.
I went into the bathroom and I ran in place for a full hour. It was about eight
miles, because I knew what my pace was. I came out of the bathroom on an
airplane, sweat pouring down my face and everybody in line looking like, what
were you doing in that bathroom? I did my eight miles. Thats how neurotic I was
at the time.
Nick: I know youve done a lot with yoga. How important do you think the physical
body is to the spiritual experience?

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Wayne: If you dont take care of it you dont have any place else to live. Its just such a
gift and its so perfect. Based on what Ive been going through just recently in my
own life, a simple thing like a realignment where one hip is off, with not even
realizing it youre walking through life like this, and what an impact it can have
on you.
When youre in chronic pain, when youre in the kind of pain that I was in that
pulled me off the stage, you begin to realize the significance of taking care of this
perfect creation. Its such a miracle, this body of ours. When you just think about
it, what its capable of doing.
One of my most favorite people in the world is a little boy named Jesse. Hes two
years old. Really, Im 73 years old, I have eight children of my own, I love every
one of my children deeply, but Ive never known a love like I have for this little
boy. Theres something, maybe its in my age or whatever it is, but just watching
him learning to be alive and the excitement. Its like the poet Wordsworth said
that, Heaven lies about us in our infancy.
I always talk to him. I say, tell me what god is like. Come on. I know you know.
You were just there. Im going to be there soon, but I want to know more. Just the
joy of being around this little two-year-old, its just thrilling to me. Im teaching
him how to swim, and just all the little things that he does. Nick, its all about
having love in our hearts for everything. Look at these beautiful flowers that are
right here in this room.
Nick: They smell good too.
Wayne: Yeah. The movie Oh, God!, remember with George Burns.
Nick: Yep, George Burns. Absolutely.
Wayne: Theres a line in there. He says something about make a flower from scratch. Now
you understand what God is really like. Try to make one of those beautiful
flowers there from scratch. Go out and just make one. Impossible.
Nick: The basic tapping, what we start with is Even though, and fill in the blank on
the problem, I deeply and completely love and accept myself. I think that
concept of self-love is so primal to healing. We tend to justwe want to push
away. We want to reject the parts of ourselves that are in pain, that are angry. Tell
me about self-acceptance. What does it mean to you? Why do you think thats so
Wayne: Its like if you dont accept yourself, no one else is either. I think of it as were all
creations of God. We all come from the same place. T. S. Eliot said that, We
shall not cease from exploration, but at the end of all of our exploring will be to
return to the place from which we originated and to know it for the first time. He
was speaking about death. I dont take that as an explanation of death. I take that
as an explanation of an understanding that we all emerged from this place, the
same place, that were all connected. Everything in this universe is connected.

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Larry Dossey has just written a beautiful book called One Mind. I just finished
reading it and its like its showing scientifically how everything is connected to
everything in this universe and you cant take anything and not see the connection
to it, especially at the quantum level.
Who you are is a creation of God. In my book Wishes Fulfilled I talk about one of
the things you have to recognize is that your highest self is God. You must be like
what you came from. A little tiny spark of who you are is the Dao, is God, is
divine mind, is Krishna, is consciousness, is Buddha, whatever you want to call it.
In the Dao the opening line of the Dao says, The Dao that can be named is not
the Dao. We cant find a name for it, but the best name we can come for it is
something called love. Its just love. Its divine love.
This is what you came from. So if you dont accept yourself, youre not accepting
something that is the creation of God. Truly, its like the greatest wisdom that you
can have is the recognition that you are a piece of this divinity.
I walk around with just aRumi said, Sell your cleverness and purchase
bewilderment. Im just in a state of bewilderment about it all. When you accept
yourself you love yourself, and when you love yourself thats what you have to
give away and the only thing that you can give away. Thats what a saint is, is
someone who can only give love away because thats all they have inside.
Thats been my goal in my life is to have no enemies, particularly not to make an
enemy of myself, to love everything about myself. What I was going through the
last six months, this pain and stuff we tapped on down in Australia and so on,
most of the time, and youve heard me say it many times, theres a lesson in this
for me.
I just did a Public Television special, another Public Television special. When I
got an hour-and-a-half before the show to start, I was in one of these attacks again
in the neck. I was like, how am I going to get through this thing and so on. I said a
prayer. My wife was there. Two of my girls were there. We were in the room.
I had my arms around them and I said, If Im supposed to endure this pain, for
whatever reason that I dont even understand yet, Im willing to do it. But could I
please just have the next couple of hours so that I could at least get through this
experience? It just dissolved. You were there. You were in the audience. I was
able to go out there and do it.
Then the pain returned the next day and I went right back to that state. I still do it
now. I can feel it even now as were talking about it a little bit here. Instead of
cursing it, instead of being angry at it, I accept it as my dharma.
Whatever it is that I have to learn from it, generally speaking every difficulty Ive
had in my life, getting divorced, literally being someone who was addicted to
substances including alcohol, letting go of those kinds of beliefs that those are
terrible things that I should be ashamed, theyve been my greatest teachers. This

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pain was just another one of those things that generally speaking I now can go out
and help people who live in chronic pain.
You do a lot of this with your tapping. Ive seen you do it onstage with people. In
fact, when we were out in Australia that one woman, what was it, she couldnt
Nick: There was one lady with a frozen shoulder who couldnt move her arm.
Wayne: Right, hadnt been able to move her arm in years.
Nick: In 20 minutes she got it up like that.
Wayne: That comes from just accepting yourself. Actually, instead of cursing the pain,
because when you curse the pain and get angry at it every cell of your being goes
through that same anger.
What you want to do is just get to that peaceful place within yourself where you
saywhen you trusting yourself, youre really trusting in the wisdom that created
you. The wisdom that that created you is infinite and its formless. Your thoughts
are in that same category. Have thoughts that are aligned with that divine
presence. Youll see it going away.
Nick: I spent just a couple of weeks ago, three days in Stamford, Connecticutwere
filming this in New York City right nowdoing three days on pain relief. Just
incredible results, really deep people who had fibromyalgia and arthritis, a Native
American with arthritis for years, just pain-free. You see him stretching and
doinghes a marine. He was a Native American elder and hes a marine, just an
incredible guy. Hes pain-free.
It was a weekend of miracles. Then towards that end, I probably saw 80% to 90%
of the people got really, really impressive results, and 10% to 20%we actually
did research, well look at the numbers laterwere struggling. At the end, the
weekend is wrapping up and these people were surrounded by other people who
have gotten amazing results, and now theyre even more frustrated and angry than
they started.
Some people said, whats going on here? My answer was a) you made it here. The
fact that you decided to spend three days working on this, shows that you are well
on your way to healing. I said if this isnt the thing thats going to heal you, and
the next thing will or the next thing will or the next thing will, ten times deep,
however it is.
Wayne: Also Nick, youll never know how its going to show up. You dont know how
its going to show up. The example that I give is that I had this experience with
John of God, thats well documented and people know about, with Leukemia. Its
another one of those great blessings that came into my life.
Ive helped so many people with Leukemia, just because they said if Wayne Dyer
can get it and not have it impact his life then certainly I can as well. You think

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maybe I need to tap and the tapping is going to be the thing thats going tobut it
might be something else. The tapping might just open you up to receiving.
Ive done ten Public Television specials, and millions and millions of people have
watched them. One woman happened to watch one of my shows, her name is
Troy Egoscue. Shes now 50 years old. Had three kinds of cancer, brain cancer,
lung cancer and breast cancer. She watched a show that I did and decided to
change her attitude, just decided that she wasnt going to live in fear anymore.
She was going to send that away.
She tried a new method. Its called the Brzezinski method where she went on raw
foods and things like this. Basically was sent there because ofthis was seven
years ago. Then Im in this deep pain, that I just talked about, before the Public
Television special.
The next day whatever miraculous thing was going on in the universe, Pete
Egoscue, who has all of these clinics on pain relief and so on, living without
chronic pain and so on, I call him on the phone because somebody gave me his
number and they insisted and insisted. I kept saying I dont want anybody else to
touch me. They said please, youve just got to do that. So I did.
I called the number and Pete Egoscue answers the phone and finds out where I
am. Ten miles, an hour later, he was in my hotel room. He said to me, he was
sobbing when he walked in, he said, My wife had said to me yesterday that if
theres one person that I would like to meet who is responsible for me overcoming
this cancer its Wayne Dyer. Then I called him that day. He just took me on as
one of hisIm doing these exercises and so on, and its dissipating. Its like,
how does the universe work? How does it work?
Its like if youre open to the possibilities of all of these things coming to you,
God can do it through tapping, he can do it through a message that is being sent
that just seems like such a coincidence and it doesnt seem like its possible.
There are no coincidences in this universe. Its all be handled by a divine
intelligence that each and every one of us are a part of. Theres so many ways for
it to come to you, but youve got to be open to it. The 20% of people that you
were talking about at the end probably had a closed mind about it and wouldnt
allow themselves to experience it.
Nick: One even admitted it at the end. The other thing, from a couple of them I heard
several days later, now Im getting the results. Now Im back and things are
happening. Theyre shifting in a huge way that I didnt realize.
Wayne: Theres no time. Thats another one of the great illusions that we live under is that
time is something thats measured by whats on our watch. Its not. Thats what
we call chronos time, chronological time, cause and effect time. But theres also
something called eternal time. Eternal time is where you recognize that all of this
is taken care of.

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My teacherI was going to become a Jungian analyst. Carl Jung said at the same
moment that youre a protagonist in your own life and youre making choices, at
that very same moment he said youre also an extra in a much larger drama. But
within that eternal time there are choices that you can make, and when you do you
start aligning yourself with this divine intelligence that takes care of everything.
Every breath that you take, every hair that grows on your body, everything that
takes place in your life is taken care of by an invisible intelligence. They call it
the Dao. Lao Tzu said, The Dao does nothing, but it leaves nothing undone. All
of you are not doing anything. Youre just being done. Let yourself be done in
accordance with a divine plan, rather than the one that you have inside of you,
your little ego tells you it ought to be the way it is.
Nick: You mentioned a few minutes ago giving it away, giving it all away. Since the
first Tapping World Summit that we did, this is the sixth one now, I cant believe
how its gone, weve made it an effort every year to donate a lot of money. Its
literally been hundreds of thousands of dollars at this point. It doesnt compare
with your $200 million to PBS, but we do our best here.
Wayne: Two hundred and fifty, just in case
Nick: Two hundred and fifty. Im sorry. Not that were counting.
Wayne: You just cut out I had $50 million, that weve raised by the way.
Nick: Two hundred and fifty, yeah. Weve been able to support children with cancer in
Mexico and doing tapping with them, genocide survivors in Rwanda, veterans
with PTSD. The latest thing the last year has been The Tapping Solution
Foundation that we started working in Newtown, Connecticut, which is my
hometown, working with that tragedy and the trauma and the pain and
Wayne: The horror.
Nick: The horror.
Wayne: Yeah, right.
Nick: I know that through that youve gotten to meet
Wayne: Scarlett Lewis, right.
Nick: Talk to me. What does it mean to you to give away? Its important to me. Why is
it important to you to give back?
Wayne: Think about it, Nick, seriously. You come into this world with nothing, with no
thing, nothing. One moment you go from formless to form, from nowhere to now
here. Its all spelled the same. Its just a little question of spacing. Then you live
your life, and then you leave with nothing. Nothing. Theres not one thing that
you can hang onto and let it go. Basically, the only thing you can do with your
life, because you dont get to own anything. You think that you own things, but
its all being taken away.
They say the last suit you wear doesnt need any pockets. Youre not taking
anything with you. If thats the case, since you dont get to own anything and you

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dont get to have anything, the only thing you can do with your life is give it
Now ask yourself, what do you think God is like? Living like God lives, whatever
this source that allowseven if youre an atheist, you know that theres some
invisible intelligence that is bringing things from non-form to form. I think it was
in one of Rumis poems he said that the divine intelligence that is constantly
seducing the formless into form is the only thing that owns my heart.
Theres something that is seducing the non-form into form. It seduced you from
non-form. There was a moment when you didnt exist and now you do exist.
What is that world like? What is God like? What is this source like? What is the
Dao like? Whatever you want to call it, what is it like? All it does is give things
away. It doesnt ask for anything back. Its basically our original nature. Lao Tzu
called it our original nature is to give, is to give away.
When you get into the idea that I own things, that this is mine and that nobody
youre going against your divine nature. Our true nature is about giving. For me
its like whatever amount of money I make and everything, it doesnt make any
difference. I just give it all away. Even when I write a book, or when Im doing
this interview with you, its like nothing for me. Im not getting anything for this.
Its just an opportunity to reach out.
Nick: I may buy you dinner. Well see. Well see.
Wayne: Maybe, right. That would be a first. No, Im kidding. Its your nature. Its your
nature to give. Thats really the great lesson of it all is just whatever it is that you
have just give it away.
Its summarized by a great poet, Hafiz, who was a Persian poet back in the
thirteenth century. He said that, Even after all this time the sun never says to the
earth, you owe me. Just think what a love like that can do. It lights up the whole
word. It lights up the whole world. A love that is like the sun saying to the earth.
None of us could take a breath if it wasnt for that sun, and it doesnt ask anything
back. God gives us all the air that we need and the water that we need to drink and
the food that we need. All the opportunity to do that and doesnt say I want this
back, I insist on this. The churches do. The religions do. But God doesnt. God
asks nothing back.
Be godlike. Thats what God realization is really about. Thats my ambition is to
be living a God realized life. To act as if I were God, because I believe the highest
place within each and every one of us is God, that were all God.
Nick: Beautiful. To wrap up, a lot of people watching this are about to embark on this
ten-day adventure, this ten-day tapping World Summit. Its a free event. They get
to listen to free over the ten-day period, nothing but content, tons and tons of
content of life transforming information. What words do you have for them? Why
should they spend the time doing this weird tapping thing?

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Wayne: It was weird to me. Its new to me. To me its just another vehicle. Its another
tool for creating a happier more fulfilled life. Ive spentyou have a colleague
named Mary.
Nick: Yeah, Mary Ayers, whos one of the presenters in the summit.
Wayne: Is she? Yeah. I tapped with her. I did 20 sessions with her. I probably have done
50 sessions with you over the last couple of years. Its just something that makes
you feel better. If you want to feel better and you want to increase your levels of
happiness, and possibly remove some of the pain thats in your life, I dont know
what more incentive you need than that. I think its a wonderful opportunity.
Thats why Im here and why I agreed to come in and talk about it.
Nick: Thank you.
Wayne: Youre very welcome.
Nick: Thank you, Wayne.
Wayne: My pleasure. God bless you.
Nick: Thank you, everybody. This is Nick Ortner from
and the Tapping World Summit and my dear friend Wayne Dyer and well see
you soon.

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