[ Register ] [ F.A.Q.

]
[ Magic Caf Donations ]
Username:
Password:
Log In
[ Lost Password ]
[ Forgot Username ]

The Magic Cafe Forum Index Did you hear the latest? The document
Kenton Knepper doesn't want you to see! TOPIC IS LOCKED(0Likes)

Go to page 1 ~2 [Next]
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 12:17 am
Scott Cram 0

I was notied by Scribd.com today that my Memory Effects document was removed
from their servers for copyright violation. I've created and maintained this list for
several years now, so I wondered who would report a copyright violation.

I went to the original location itself, and nd this message:

Inner circle
2661 Posts
Quote:

The document "MemoryEffects" has been removed from

Scribd

This content was removed at the request of copyright agent

K. Knepper o/b/o Wonder Wizards

For more information, please send questions to

support@scribd.com. Note that we cannot provide you with
a copy of the document, as it has been permanently
deleted.

For those who were interested in it, you can always download the latest version in
PDF form
 Why Kenton Knepper would claim a copyright violation on a list I've worked on for
years is beyond me.
Grey Matters:Blog|Videos|Mental Gym|Presentation|Store
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 12:55 am
MagicSanta 0

Hacks do that type of stuff... hope he leaves you alone amigo.

Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5845 Posts

Posted: Jul 30, 2008 02:43 am

Jimeh 0

That's silly.
Nice list by the way, great resource!

Inner circle
Ottawa, Ontario
1399 Posts

Posted: Jul 30, 2008 10:11 am

silverking 0

After getting the facts on how Knepper essentially stole Bob Farmers "Tsunami",
butchered it into a trick with 25% of the impact of the original Farmer effect, and then
claimed it as his own creation...Knepper does come across as a complete hack.

I wouldn't ever support the guy by purchasing one of his effects, and the pursuit of a
Inner circle copyright claim against Scott's list seems typical of how hacks behave.
4586 Posts
Perhaps he doesn't want anybody discovering their original effect contained within
Scott's brief descriptions of Knepper's "original" effects.

Scott, that's a great list, one I'm keeping on le for some light and enjoyable reading!
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 03:40 pm
EventEntertainer 0

Hold up here. Silverking, I don't think you have your facts straight. Bob Farmer cried
foul based on a little known fact about the nature of chance. Personally *I* don't think
it is anything to complain about, but apparently others do. It's not for me to decide.

If anything Kenton's mistake was not checking the history of the effect, but that leads
Inner circle us to the above. It was John Mahood's work, yet I don't hear anyone mentioning his
Look Ma! name. I am not here to pick an argument, don't get me wrong.
1104 Posts

I came up with my own version that uses not a single card, yet I am still hearing
people telling me it's Bob Farmer's. Really? in what way?

Scott, I did contact Kenton and have a question:

The pdf you have posted above is a reference tool, yet the Post Kenton had removed
had links to pirated copies of others work (I am looking at a scanned copy of Bob
Cassidy's Techniques of Mentalism). Is this the document he had removed or a
different one? Have to contacted him to see if it might just be a misunderstanding?

Here is an e-mail I received from Kenton:

Quote:

From: Kenton [Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 12:33 PM

To: David

I cannot believe Scott does not understand this. He's a

smart person.

This work of "his" contains loads of other people's works -

including something from my "Sorcerer Series" as I
understand it. His book was advertised on the website using
my name and "Any Card At Any Number from The Sorcerer
Series". This is an effect by myself and Newel Unfried.

He did NOT get Wonder Wizards or my permission to

"share"" this for free with others.

It is our copyright - not his - to use as he pleases.

I also doubt Scott got Mr. Unfried's permission.

I am sure the same is true for many of the other mentalists

in "his" book.

Unless Scott is listing this effect and not actually putting it

into his book, naturally Wonder Wizards would ask it be
pulled for copyright violation.

I'm not sure why people cannot grasp this, but if you use
copywritten material without permission, it's not ethical or
legal. Not even if you collect a bunch of it and call it "yours".

If Wonder Wizards gave Scott permission to include it in a

book, then he will have written proof of that from me or
Wonder Wizards. If such permission was granted, it would
have been in a collection of works for sale, not as share-for-
free material. I have allowed a couple of times for things to
be shared freely in context of a benet book which was part
of donations to a charity. Other than that, we nor I allow our
material to be shared without permission.

By the way, I heard of this only because a friend and fan

asked me if I knew about this site. I passed this along to
Wonder Wizards. I told my friend that this was the reason I
no longer write. He was devastated and said that I was one
of his favorite philosophers. I thanked him, and reiterated
the fact that people cannot afford to teach if all their time
and effort costs them money to do so.

I am not alone in this problem.

Here is a list of other things being "shared" on the site Scott

mentions, beyond his own compilations :

Bob Cassidy
Techniques of Mentalism
Fundamentals
Art of Mentalism 2
Fundamentals

Docc Hilford
The Star Tradeshow Act
The Sealed Tome #2 - Wamp Water
The Sealed Tome #1
The Richey Technique Revealed
The Dark Cloak
The Dance of Shiva
The Cassandra Deck
The 1000 Dollar Secret Seance
SideShow
Rasputin's Secret
Okito Doll
Mephistos Journey
Mentalism with Cards
Lolita System
Its a Lu
Fem Fatal
E'Voque
Cellular Mitosis
Cards of Cairo
Kenton Knepper
Wonder Readings
Weird Enough
Miraculous Ploys
Enchanted Evening

Max Maven
5 Formulae
Blue Book Mentalism
The blue, red, and green books of mentalism
The blue-green and red book of mentalism
The violet book of mentalism
The yellow book of mentalism
Banachek
Thought Reading
Psychological Subtleties
Psychokinetic Touches
PK Touches

Jas Jakutsch
Completely mental - vol 2
 I have nothing against Scott personally, please understand.
If Wonder Wizards granted Scott written permission then I
am sure he can produce said permission and they will talk to
him about proper use of that permission in the future.
It's a matter of whether people want everything to be free to
all - a ne idea - as long as those who produce the original
work are willing to do so without pay, or need of providing
for food, shelter, family needs, etc.
This culture and time rarely allow creators to do the work
and be paid by the government or some other fund-support
so their needs are met and they are able to create without
other compensation. That may have been true in some
times, but it certainly is not the case in this country or most
of the world.
Imagine those who are sharing "freely" this notion: You go to
work for ten to twelve hours a day, outside of your usual job,
and then don't get paid for putting in those extra twelve hour
days. People demand that you do it for years on end. If you
quit that job that doesn't pay you, it won't hurt you as much
as it will hurt those demanding you work for free.
How long will you do that?
That's what is going on for creators - true creators - these
days. That's why so many are changing what they give, how
they give, or if they give at all.
Anyone heard from John Cornelius' ne creative mind lately
for instance?
That is why our rights matter. If we ignore them, we are
ignoring or dismissing the creator out of hand, and calling
original work "worthless" - literally.
We need to decide as a community whether we want crap
free, and will settle for loads of crap as long as it is free, or
whether we want actual art, creativity and breakthroughs in
magic and mentalism. If we want the latter, we have to pay
the artists and creators for those works. Otherwise, we just
get free crap, and collections of other people's hard work,
which will cease or reduce due to lack of payment in kind.
I'm all for sharing and teaching and spreading the word.
Doing it fairly matters as well, if we want work that matters.
Kenton

Consultant, performer, creator, and all around nice guy!

Posted: Jul 30, 2008 03:45 pm
Bob Farmer 0

DJG:

Unfortunately, your impression about the nature of my invention being just some
obscure mathematical principle is mistaken. If you will send me an email I'd be happy
to send you (or anyone else) my comments on the history of "Tsunami," the principles
Veteran user I invented and the blatant ripoff by Kenton Knepper and John Mahood.
Magic Forest
325 Posts
If you can send me your version that does not use a single card, I could comment
further on whether you have something new or whether it's related to "Tsunami."

The idea that "Tsunami" uses a mathematical principle called the "high card
 distribution probability" rst surfaced in Arthur MacTier's book Card Concepts.
MacTier doesn't understand what he's writing about -- if there was such a probability -
- think about it -- the rules of poker would be reversed!
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 03:49 pm
EventEntertainer 0

Sent ya a PM!
Consultant, performer, creator, and all around nice guy!

Inner circle
Look Ma!
1104 Posts

Posted: Jul 30, 2008 04:10 pm

silverking 0

I hope you're prepared to eat your words after reading thetrueE history of the effect
DJG.

I nd it funny to read KK's high, mighty, long and rambling stance on reproducing
things that aren't yours to reproduce...and then to talk about how he lifted "Tsunami",
Inner circle only to ruin it but claim it as his own anyway.
4586 Posts

Posted: Jul 30, 2008 04:21 pm

EventEntertainer 0

I have no problems "Eating" my words...just pass the salt.

Like I said, I am not trying to stir up any trouble. I see it totally different and have no
problems correcting myself if need be.

Inner circle Then again admittantly (? Where's the spell check when ya need it) Kenton is a good
Look Ma! friend and mentor and has been for years.
1104 Posts
Consultant, performer, creator, and all around nice guy!
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 07:32 pm
BarryFernelius 0

Quote:

On 2008-07-30 16:40, DJG wrote:

Here is an e-mail I received from Kenton:
Quote:
Inner circle
Still learning, even From: Kenton [Sent: Wednesday, July
though I've made
2487 Posts 30, 2008 12:33 PM
To: David

I cannot believe Scott does not

understand this. He's a smart person.

This work of "his" contains loads of

other people's works - including
something from my "Sorcerer Series"
as I understand it. His book was
advertised on the website using my
name and "Any Card At Any Number
 from The Sorcerer Series". This is an
effect by myself and Newel Unfried.

He did NOT get Wonder Wizards or my

permission to "share"" this for free with
others.

It is our copyright - not his - to use as

he pleases.

I also doubt Scott got Mr. Unfried's

permission.

I am sure the same is true for many of

the other mentalists in "his" book.

Unless Scott is listing this effect and

not actually putting it into his book,
naturally Wonder Wizards would ask it
be pulled for copyright violation.

Uh, dude, that's exactly what Scott was doing: listing the effect. Scott Cram's pdf le
is simply four lists of effects that make use of memory principles, nothing more,
nothing less. It contains no method or other intellectual property that belong to
anyone else.

Why is Scott's document useful? Let's suppose that you wanted to learn an Any Card
at Any Number effect. Scott's list will describe several of these effects and point you
to the books or manuscripts that you will need to purchase if you want to learn more.

In other words, Scott was giving Kenton (and other creators, of course) what
amounted to free advertising, and Kenton appears to be too dense to realize this. If
you had taken the time to actually read Scott's document, you could have gured this
out all by yourself.
"I don't teach people stories about the coyote for them to tell. I AM the coyote. They tell stories about me."

-Pop Haydn
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 07:37 pm
Banachek 0

Sorry, if this list of things available there.

The problem I have with it is it is pointing people to an area to obtain my books

illegally. If however it is the person themselves putting the items up on the site for
download they are indeed in copyright infringement. For one, I have never, ever put
V.I.P.
Houston
out a PDF and have no plans to do so at this moment. If anyone is downloading them
1139 Posts they are stealing from me. In the past we have had the people in violation
approached and items removed and taken action. This is not always possible. But it
is sometimes.

I realize that the topic here is slightly different but just wanted everyone to know that
 downloading from that site is illegal and honestly I am not above mentioning it to
someone when I see their library and home printed copies.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
Posted: Jul 30, 2008 08:09 pm
EventEntertainer 0

Thank you Banachek (it's been a long time ). This is what I was trying to get at
(parden my lack of articulation). The links (at least the ones I saw) were going to
places where one can illegally download the document it referred to.

Barry, I agree a reference IS useful. and calling one dense is totally uncalled for.
Inner circle especially coming from a gent wearing a tux saying "Dude"
Look Ma!
1104 Posts Consultant, performer, creator, and all around nice guy!

Posted: Jul 30, 2008 09:24 pm

BarryFernelius 0

Quote:

On 2008-07-30 20:37, Banachek wrote:

Sorry, if this list of things available there.

Inner circle The problem I have with it is it is pointing people to an area

Still learning, even to obtain my books illegally.
though I've made
2487 Posts

Please provide evidence to back up what you have asserted. I've followed every
single link in the document. There is no link in the document that points people to
where they can obtain your books (or anyone else's books, for that matter) illegally.
"I don't teach people stories about the coyote for them to tell. I AM the coyote. They tell stories about me."

-Pop Haydn
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 03:54 pm
Scott Cram 0

I've taken the list off my server.

I can't believe there has been this much controversy about a simple list of where to
nd memory-related routines, especially when I took so much time to specically
mention where the methods could be found (L-E-G-A-L-L-Y, in every single case), and
Inner circle to credit their authors.
2661 Posts

I created a resource that I'd hoped people could nd useful. However, it's simply
resulted in attacks on it by people who apparently can't be bothered to look at the le
itself, and understand what is and isn't there, so I have no desire to keep it posted and
maintained.

I've had plenty of positive comments on it over the years, but as they say, a few bad
apples can ruin the whole barrel.

Quote:
 On 2008-07-30 16:45, Bob Farmer wrote:
DJG:

Unfortunately, your impression about the nature of my

invention being just some obscure mathematical principle is
mistaken. If you will send me an email I'd be happy to send
you (or anyone else) my comments on the history of
"Tsunami," the principles I invented and the blatant ripoff by
Kenton Knepper and John Mahood.

If you can send me your version that does not use a single
card, I could comment further on whether you have
something new or whether it's related to "Tsunami."

The idea that "Tsunami" uses a mathematical principle

called the "high card distribution probability" rst surfaced in
Arthur MacTier's book CARD CONCEPTS. MacTier doesn't
understand what he's writing about -- if there was such a
probabaility -- think about it -- the rules of poker would be
reversed!

I've heard the claim that Tsunami was developed from a principle in CARD
CONCEPTS, but I've never understood how anyone could believe that. First, the
original copyright on Tsunami was in 1987, and second, CARD CONCEPTS was
copyrighted in 2000 - and references Tsunami!

Quote:

On 2008-07-30 20:32, BarryFernelius wrote:

Quote:

On 2008-07-30 16:40, DJG wrote:

Here is an e-mail I received from
Kenton:

From: Kenton [Sent: Wednesday, July

30, 2008 12:33 PM
To: David

I cannot believe Scott does not

understand this. He's a smart person.

This work of "his" contains loads of

other people's works - including
something from my "Sorcerer Series"
as I understand it. His book was
advertised on the website using my
name and "Any Card At Any Number
from The Sorcerer Series". This is an
effect by myself and Newel Unfried.
 He did NOT get Wonder Wizards or my
permission to "share"" this for free with
others.

It is our copyright - not his - to use as

he pleases.

I also doubt Scott got Mr. Unfried's

permission.

I am sure the same is true for many of

the other mentalists in "his" book.

Unless Scott is listing this effect and

not actually putting it into his book,
naturally Wonder Wizards would ask it
be pulled for copyright violation.

Uh, dude, that's exactly what Scott was doing: listing the
effect. Scott Cram's pdf le is simply four lists of effects that
make use of memory principles, nothing more, nothing less.
It contains no method or other intellectual property that
belong to anyone else.

Why is Scott's document useful? Let's suppose that you

wanted to learn an Any Card at Any Number effect. Scott's
list will describe several of these effects and point you to the
books or manuscripts that you will need to purchase if you
want to learn more.

In other words, Scott was giving Kenton (and other creators,

of course) what amounted to free advertising, and Kenton
appears to be too dense to realize this. If you had taken the
time to actually read Scott's document, you could have
gured this out all by yourself.

Quote:

On 2008-07-30 22:24, BarryFernelius wrote:

Quote:

On 2008-07-30 20:37, Banachek wrote:

Sorry, if this list of things available
there.

The problem I have with it is it is

pointing people to an area to obtain my
books illegally.
 Please provide evidence to back up what you have asserted.
I've followed every single link in the document. There is no
link in the document that points people to where they can
obtain your books (or anyone else's books, for that matter)
illegally.

Thank you very much, Barry. I appreciate the support. I, too, am curious as to why
Banachek makes this claim, as there is nowhere in the document that his name, or
the name Steve Shaw, is mentioned, much less linked for any information.
Grey Matters:Blog|Videos|Mental Gym|Presentation|Store
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 06:23 pm
edh 0

Scott, sorry to see this go. I was useful to me.

Magic is a vanishing art.

Inner circle
4699 Posts

Posted: Jul 31, 2008 07:15 pm

silverking 0

KK and Banachek, what a team.

Inner circle
4586 Posts

Posted: Jul 31, 2008 07:34 pm

Banachek 0

Go back approx twelve posts with the list of items available and by who. Max, myself
and others are mentioned and so are our works. My point was that if anyone sees a
pdf of my materials they know that if they download them they are stealing, a choice
they make and live with. As said in my post, "I realize that the topic here is slightly
different but just wanted everyone to know that downloading from my items from any
V.I.P.
Houston
site is illegal and honestly I am not above mentioning it to someone when I see their
1139 Posts library and home printed copies."

Scott wrote:
Quote:

am curious as to why Banachek makes this claim, as there

is nowhere in the document that his name, or the name
Steve Shaw, is mentioned, much less linked for any
information.

I was not blaming you Scott, my post was about lists that point and show where my
items can be downloaded illegally. If Scott's list was not pointing at such a direction
 no problem. But there are lists that say, "hey, you can nd such and such at this site
for free."

If Scott included my works in a list of items he recommends, I thank him. It seemed

some were saying this was a list of where to nd items illegally as well.
In thoughts and Friendship
Banachek
Campus Performer of the Year two years in a row
Year 2000 Campus Novelty Act
PEA Creativity Award Recipient
http://www.banachek.com
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 09:03 pm
Scott Cram 0

Quote:

On 2008-07-30 13:58, DJG wrote:

Hold up here. Silverking, I don't think you have your facts
straight. Bob Farmer cried foul based on a little known fact
Inner circle about the nature of chance. Personally *I* don't think it is
2661 Posts
anything to complain about, but apparently others do. It's
not for me to decide.

If anything Kenton's mistake was not checking the history of

the effect, but that leads us to the above. It was John
Mahood's work, yet I don't hear anyone mentioning his
name. I am not here to pick an argument, don't get me
wrong.

I came up with my own version that uses not a single card,

yet I am still hearing people telling me it's Bob Farmer's.
Really? in what way?

Scott, I did contact Kenton and have a question:

The pdf you have posted above is a reference tool, yet the
Post Kenton had removed had links to pirated copies of
others work (I am looking at a scanned copy of Bob
Cassidy's Techniques of Mentalism). Is this the document
he had removed or a different one? Have to contacted him to
see if it might just be a misunderstanding?

The document he had removed was a list of memory-related routines. While it did
contain some links, none of the links went to sites where illegal copies of these
works could be obtained. The links were largely to Simon Aronson's Magician's Only
section, Braingle, the Magic Caf, and my own website.

Quote:

From: Kenton [Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2008 12:33 PM

To: David

I cannot believe Scott does not understand this. He's a

smart person.
This work of "his" contains loads of other people's works -
including something from my "Sorcerer Series" as I
understand it. His book was advertised on the website using
my name and "Any Card At Any Number from The Sorcerer
Series". This is an effect by myself and Newel Unfried.

He did not get Wonder Wizards or my permission to "share""

this for free with others.

It is our copyright - not his - to use as he pleases.

I also doubt Scott got Mr. Unfried's permission.

I am sure the same is true for many of the other mentalists

in "his" book.

Unless Scott is listing this effect and not actually putting it

into his book, naturally Wonder Wizards would ask it be
pulled for copyright violation.

I'm not sure why people cannot grasp this, but if you use
copywritten material without permission, it's not ethical or
legal. Not even if you collect a bunch of it and call it "yours".

If Wonder Wizards gave Scott permission to include it in a

book, then he will have written proof of that from me or
Wonder Wizards. If such permission was granted, it would
have been in a collection of works for sale, not as share-for-
free material. I have allowed a couple of times for things to
be shared freely in context of a benet book which was part
of donations to a charity. Other than that, we nor I allow our
material to be shared without permission.

By the way, I heard of this only because a friend and fan

asked me if I knew about this site. I passed this along to
Wonder Wizards. I told my friend that this was the reason I
no longer write. He was devastated and said that I was one
of his favorite philosophers. I thanked him, and reiterated
the fact that people cannot afford to teach if all their time
and effort costs them money to do so.

I am not alone in this problem.

Here is a list of other things being "shared" on the site Scott

mentions, beyond his own compilations :

Bob Cassidy
Techniques of Mentalism
Fundamentals
Art of Mentalism 2
Fundamentals

Docc Hilford
The Star Tradeshow Act
The Sealed Tome #2 - Wamp Water
The Sealed Tome #1
The Richey Technique Revealed
The Dark Cloak
The Dance of Shiva
The Cassandra Deck
The 1000 Dollar Secret Seance
SideShow
Rasputin's Secret
Okito Doll
Mephistos Journey
Mentalism with Cards
Lolita System
Its a Lu
Fem Fatal
E'Voque
Cellular Mitosis
Cards of Cairo
Kenton Knepper
Wonder Readings
Weird Enough
Miraculous Ploys
Enchanted Evening

Max Maven
5 Formulae
Blue Book Mentalism
The blue, red, and green books of mentalism
The blue-green and red book of mentalism
The violet book of mentalism
The yellow book of mentalism
Banachek
Thought Reading
Psychological Subtleties
Psychokinetic Touches
PK Touches

Jas Jakutsch
Completely mental - vol 2
I have nothing against Scott personally, please understand.
If Wonder Wizards granted Scott written permission then I
am sure he can produce said permission and they will talk to
him about proper use of that permission in the future.
It's a matter of whether people want everything to be free to
all - a ne idea - as long as those who produce the original
work are willing to do so without pay, or need of providing
for food, shelter, family needs, etc.
This culture and time rarely allow creators to do the work
and be paid by the government or some other fund-support
so their needs are met and they are able to create without
other compensation. That may have been true in some
times, but it certainly is not the case in this country or most
of the world.
Imagine those who are sharing "freely" this notion: You go to
 work for ten to twelve hours a day, outside of your usual job,
and then don't get paid for putting in those extra twelve hour
days. People demand that you do it for years on end. If you
quit that job that doesn't pay you, it won't hurt you as much
as it will hurt those demanding you work for free.
How long will you do that?
That's what is going on for creators - true creators - these
days. That's why so many are changing what they give, how
they give, or if they give at all.
Anyone heard from John Cornelius' ne creative mind lately
for instance?
That is why our rights matter. If we ignore them, we are
ignoring or dismissing the creator out of hand, and calling
original work "worthless" - literally.
We need to decide as a community whether we want crap
free, and will settle for loads of crap as long as it is free, or
whether we want actual art, creativity and breakthroughs in
magic and mentalism. If we want the latter, we have to pay
the artists and creators for those works. Otherwise, we just
get free crap, and collections of other people's hard work,
which will cease or reduce due to lack of payment in kind.
I'm all for sharing and teaching and spreading the word.
Doing it fairly matters as well, if we want work that matters.
Kenton

Thank you for posting this, David. What alleged "book" does he think I've published
his routine in? I described the effect, and where to nd it, including the author and
publisher, and did not publish the method anywhere.

I especially love how he included the phrase "as I understand it" in the second
paragraph. There's not much to understand, as the introduction to the list on the site
itself said:

This is a list of references where you can nd memory-related magic and mentalism
routines. There are four main sections in this le:

1) Articles - These are articles about different approaches to memory and mnemonics.
2) Legitimate Memory Demonstrations - Just what the name implies, of course.
3) Covert Use of Memory Technique - These are routines in which memory is used in
secret, rather than as an open display.
4) Simulated Memory Demonstrations - These routines that give the appearance of
requiring a trained memory, but actually don't.

This le doesn't teach any of the routines itself. It just shows where you can nd them.

I'm fascinated that Kenton doesn't show even the most basic understanding of what
this document was, even after claiming I'm violating his rights by posting it. E-mailing
other people about his work being used without permission in some ctitious book
I'm allegedly promoting is just jaw-dropping, and highly unprofessional.
Grey Matters:Blog|Videos|Mental Gym|Presentation|Store
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 10:32 pm
BarryFernelius 0
 Quote:

On 2008-07-31 20:34, Banachek wrote:

Go back approx twelve posts with the list of items available
and by who. Max, myself and others are mentioned and so
are our works. (and so on and so forth.)
Inner circle
Still learning, even
though I've made
2487 Posts
Banachek,

I'll make this short and simple: have you actually read Scott's pdf le, or are you
reacting to what other people have said about the document?

If you haven't read Scott's document, send me a PM and I'll email it to you. Fair
enough?

-Barry
"I don't teach people stories about the coyote for them to tell. I AM the coyote. They tell stories about me."

-Pop Haydn
Posted: Jul 31, 2008 11:25 pm
silverking 0

There's something kind of unusual about KK and Banachek going off about a
document neither of them have read.

Posting madly into the ether, none of it having anything to do with Scott's helpful .pdf
of what was simply a list of mentalism effects doesn't reflect well on either of the two
Inner circle gentlemen.
4586 Posts

To the two gentlemen in question, you both owe Scott an apology, and it would also
be appropriate if you asked him politely to re-post his list for the benet of those of
us here on the Caf and elsewhere who saw it as a great aid in understanding what
mentalism effects were out there.

Scott's .pdf was probably the best source of information all in one place available on
the web for mentalists interested in a "master list" of effects.

But thanks to you both, the list is unavailable now........ well done!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Did you hear the latest? The document Kenton
Knepper doesn't want you to see! TOPIC IS LOCKED(0Likes)
Go to page 1 ~2 [Next]

[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright 2001-2017 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.4 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Caf
are not necessarily those of The Magic Caf, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <