DOCUMENT OUTLINE

Staff introductions
Opening comments
History overview
Introductory discussion of plumbing code / issues of compliance
Introducing Next Steps
Floor-to-Ceiling Partitions Introduced
Changing MA Law Introduced
Testimonials Requested
Plans for Immediate future
Q&A Period Begins
Q&A 1
Q&A 2
Q&A 3
Q&A 4
Q&A 5
Q&A 6
Q&A 7
Q&A 8
Q&A 9
Possible Risks of Non-Compliance
This Issue as Priority?
Q&A 10
Q&A 11
Q&A 12
Q&A 13
Q&A 14
Q&A 15
Q&A 16
Committee Meetings & Publicity
Q&A 16
Q&A 17
Q&A 18
Q&A 19
Addressing Committee Communications/Publicity
Q&A 20
Q&A 21
Q&A 22
Q&A 22
Names of Other Committee Members
Q&A 23
Q&A 24
Q&A 25
Q&A 26
Backup Plans?
Lack of Student Involvement
Q&A 26
Oprahs Summary of One Committee Meeting
Q&A 27
This is a Recurring Situation
Q&A 27
Q&A 28
Audio Recording Confusion
Q&A 28 (Continued)
 Q&A 29
Q&A 30
Q&A 31
Q&A 32 (Weird MA Laws)
Beginning Wrap-Up
Q&A 33
Audio Recording Confusion (Part 2)
Date and Time of Next Meeting?
Next Meeting: Tour of Athletic Facilities, 10/10 @ Curry Hicks
Students Discuss Scheduling Next Meeting
Next Meeting: 9/28 @7PM
Meeting Wrap-Up/Final Comments

*Name has been changed for privacy or in place of an unknown

Staff introductions

[0:00:00] JEAN: [Inaudible] Welcome and thank you for coming, I'm Jean MacKimmie, I'm the
director of residence education here on campus. So in residence education we
do the student life pieces of residential life, so I work with all the staff that
you work with in the halls - residence directors and RAs and peer mentors.
What I wanna do is just introduce ourselves first, to let you know who's here.

[00:00:29] We have people from residential life staff, some of whom are also members of
the bathroom/restroom committee. So we'll do those introductions, I'll tell you
a little bit about how we're gonna proceed with this meeting.

JULIE: Okay, hi, my name is Julie, I'm the residence director in Gorman and Wheeler
Halls. I joined this committee when it started because gender-inclusive
bathrooms are an issue that really impacted my residents in Gorman and
Wheeler and continue to... and so... yeah, that is why I'm here!

[00:01:05] PAT: Hello everyone, my name is Pat Quinn, I'm a residence hall services manager in
the residential life student services office. My pronouns are he/him/his... and
uh... I joined this committee at the outset as well, as part of the original work
through trying to work with our partners in physical plant when we were first
starting looking at this project in regards to signage and putting our restrooms
together.

[00:01:35] JULIA: Hi everybody, my name is Julia Mohala, I am the assistant director of

residence education and I work with the east multi-year area.

[00:01:45] JEAN: There are other members of the committee who work on campus, many of
them had family commitments this evening and weren't able to be here, but
we are gonna take some notes from this meeting and share them back with the
broader committee so that we can share your voices and questions with them
so that the whole committee has a sense of the things that we talk about
here.

[00:02:05] The original purpose of this meeting, when we sent an email out to the
residents of Baker back in August, which seems like a long time ago -- it
wasn't, it was only three weeks ago -- was really to meet in person with you,
particularly the people who live in Baker, to really talk through where we are
around bathrooms and restrooms, why the decision was made to change the

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 sign back on the multi-user restroom, and then talk about what next steps
could be around the bathroom. So we wanna-- we are gonna do that, and give
you a chance to have a conversation with us and ask your questions. I know
many of you, but not all of you, know that Jackson has been at a couple of
meetings, and I know that definitely they want us to be able to hear from all
of you as well. So, y'know, we don't want the voices of one student to have to
share that with everybody. So we're glad you're all here to do that.

[00:03:05] I know we have at least one person from the media in the room, there may be
others, but from the Collegian here covering the meeting... I just wanna
recognize, you certainly have the right to be here and wanna give you your
freedom of expression to cover this story, while respecting the privacy of
members of the community that are here.

[00:03:30] And so, y'know, if you're taking pictures and things you may wanna ask
permission to publish those, from members of the community. But I know you
will use journalistic good judgement in covering this story. I just wanted to
make a note of that because I know for members of our community, privacy is
important, so wanna acknowledge that. And I can't read a thing without
glasses, so I'm gonna put them on as I go through some notes. What I wanna do
is give you some overview, and I hope that people can be a little bit patient on
this, just to bring us to similar place with some of the information.

Opening comments

[00:04:00] There may be some things that the four of us just can't answer, that we're not
experts on, and so if there's questions like that we're just gonna take them and
get that information back to you. So... first, I just want to start with, really,
an apology... that we're in this place to have changed the sign on the floor
mostly without previous communication.

[00:04:30] We would have been better -- we should have, and could have, communicated
with members of the community last spring about the change to the bathroom
sign and the work that was being done around the single-user restrooms on
campus... the sign, the "all-gender" sign has been up on the bathroom for a
couple years now, and we also could have responded to that concern around
its violation of the code earlier.

[00:05:00] So I just want to acknowledge, I believe there are some things that we can do
differently, and could have done differently, and wanna state that and
acknowledge that. And then wanna move forward in the things that we can all
do together to change this as a community. I know that you are all here
because you don't agree with the sign having been changed, right, and I
understand that... and I, and all of us at the university, want to make
movement on this issue around the bathrooms on campus.

[00:05:32] We know this is a significant issue for the campus community, and a point of
tension, and so wanna be able to talk about what some of the next steps are
and what we can do next as a state institution. So just wanted to start with
that, to say I wish I could've would've communicated earlier, engaged students
more in the process last spring, and we didn't do that. So I just wanna
acknowledge that for all of you.

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 History overview

[00:06:00] So let me give you a little bit of history on this situation, some of which some
of you know and others don't. Can you all hear me if I'm sitting down? Does
that work? I'm pretty loud... yes? I think if I stand I might fall over, 'cause it's
been a long couple days. So... if you can't let me just let me know with a
wave.

[00:06:25] So I wanna start with the multi-stall bathroom in the Spectrum community
around the history of that... A little over two years ago, from what I
understand -- and I don't know exactly when it happened honestly -- the sign
on that bathroom was changed from the female restroom sign to an all-gender
sign. There were staff involved in that decision to change the sign, I fully
believe that everyone that was involved in that decision was believing that
they were making the right decision,

[00:07:00] that that was the best decision for the community. But none of us really had
the authority to make that decision, we needed to have authorization from the
plumbing code to do that. A variance at that time was not requested... we
just, we weren't able to make that decision because the state plumbing code
doesn't allow that. So two years ago that happened, there was a number of
people involved in that, and like I said I do believe that they were supporting
the members of the community and they were formalizing what had been an
informal agreement in the community for years and years prior to that.

[00:07:37] So the Spectrum community in Baker, and I think it was in Brett or Brooks
before that, and in Northeast before that, had always agreed as a community
that their multi-user bathroom would be gender-inclusive. So, and we said
that that's-- we will have that happen for the community, and won't enforce
that, because we have a kinda open bathroom policy.

[00:08:02] And even before that, when the bathroom said you have to use the bathroom
aligned with your sex designation, we said for this community this makes a lot
of sense. So the staff involved were really trying to formalize something that
had been a practice in the community for a long time and we had supported.
So that's what happened a couple years ago... I wasn't, as a director at the
time, I didn't know that had happened, it was really

[00:08:31] I learned about it several months later, when we had another residence hall
community come forward and say "why can't we have that too?," right, so if
Baker can have a multi-user all-gender bathroom why can't we have that? And I
said "there's no"-- this was my answer-- "there's no multi-user gender-inclusive
bathroom in Baker?" [LAUGHS] But there was! Right? So at that time, and that
was probably the fall of...15?

[00:09:01] That was kind of when we were all aware that we were in violation of the
code... and that was about the same time that the gender-- the
bathroom/restroom committee started to meet as well on campus, and really
look at this... issues of bathrooms and restrooms on campus. [EXTENDED
PAUSE] I made notes because I forget things... um... [EXTENDED PAUSE]

[00:09:30] So the bathroom/restroom committee started about that same time... the
people who've been on the committee the whole time would have a better

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 sense of when they first started meeting... that really the initial purpose of
that group coming together was to look at signage, so that we had consistent
signage across campus on our bathrooms and restrooms. It was all over the
map, around what the signs outside facilities said.

[00:09:57] And so that was the original purpose of the physical plant and residential life
coming together, really look at signage, and as they started to meet they
looked at this issue much more broadly around... wow, we have a lot of
single-user restrooms and bathrooms on campus that are labeled all sorts of
different ways -- some of them were designated as male and female, some
were not... and at that time the plumbing code didn't allow either-- every
bathroom and restroom had to be designated as male or female

[00:10:30] That subsequently has changed in the plumbing code since then. So the
committee started to really look at bathrooms and restrooms around campus
and the signage, and put in a little over a year ago in the summer, submitted a
variance to the plumbing board to allow to sign a lot -- not all, but a lot -- of
the single-user bathrooms and restrooms on campus as... they don't say "all-
gender," right, they say "bathroom" or "restroom." Really just say that this is a
bathroom or restroom that anyone on campus can use

[00:11:01] And in that process, both through what we-- the variance and what was
already in place, there were 135 campus restrooms... so just to kind of-- a
"restroom" doesn't have a bathing facility, a bathroom does, so when I use both
they actually... when you're talking about this issue, mean different things. So
bathrooms or restrooms... in the residence halls we have 122 restrooms, those
are typically the common restrooms in the lobbies that don't have a bathing
facility.

[00:11:32] And then there are 21 gender-inclusive single-user bathrooms in our residence
halls... I say that 21, that's really not nearly enough... so this is something that
we've been really looking at as we've looked at our facilities. Most of you
know, most of our residence hall facilities were built in 1969 or earlier, except
for the one you're sitting in right now and the North Apartments,

[00:12:00] so we are faced with, obviously, really aging facilities that were not built
today... that have lots of multi-user bathrooms. So in that same period of time
the campus did get a variance for those, the campus continues to identify
some single-user bathrooms and restrooms across campus to either re-sign
because they meet the plumbing code or will request variances for those.

Introductory discussion of plumbing code / issues of compliance

[00:12:31] There's some other requirements, I know a lot of you have actually read the
plumbing code... I'm sorry, it is brutal to read. You actually wanna read the
facilities section of the plumbing code, if you wanna dig into this information.
But now there are some, with single-use restrooms there's actually some
specific things about when you can convert those to gender-inclusive
bathrooms, around how-- if you have a male and a female, then you need...
it's very convoluted.

[00:13:00] But there's... at least now we can do that under certain circumstances. Let's
see... So, why did we change the sign this summer, is the question. Like I
said, we've known we were out of compliance with plumbing code for... at

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 least the last year and a half. There were a couple times that we were moving
forward to replace the sign, and because of the timing of either student-staff
were already back or students or we were asked by leadership of the
university to wait until kinda the next cycle

[00:13:36] We ended up at this summer to do that, to be able to notify students before

they returned to campus. And we did that because of the work that had been
happening already with the plumbing board, that we felt like if we were gonna
continue to push the state plumbing board on some of these issues, we
actually needed to... be in compliance with the plumbing code, to say what
our other needs were.

[00:14:00] Now I know not everyone would agree with that approach, but that was kinda
the campus approach of really, as we were getting the variances and re-
signing bathrooms, that we were also looking at places where we were out of
compliance with the code and bringing the university into compliance with the
code and the variances that we have received. And so that's why, at this
time... we knew all along that at some time we were gonna change it, but this
time we felt like, hey we need to be in compliance so we can continue to push
this issue with the plumbing board.

[00:14:30] Like I said, you may or may not agree with that, right, so I just want... that
was the reason, was that both physical plant and residential life really felt like
in order to continue to work on this issue we needed to look at our compliance
issues around campus. Um... what else... [EXTENDED PAUSE] Y'know I already
talked about the policy, I'm not gonna spend a lot of time on this, the
university does have a bathroom policy that does say -- and I know this does
not work for everyone in the community,

[00:15:00] I totally understand that for some your most genuinely-held gender identity
may not be a gender identity, right? So... but the code, the policy does allow
you to use the bathroom of your choosing, and residential life staff are only
doing enforcement of that policy when there's a complaint of improper or
illegal behavior. Okay? So I wanna really, like I said, I know, and having
heard from people, that that's not a solution for everyone, and I understand
that.

[00:15:31] I understand that just telling you to use the bathroom is not the solution, but I
also wanna emphasize that... we're not policing bathrooms, and our staff have
been trained on that -- one of the things that the bathroom/restroom
committee did was put together a fairly comprehensive training that's not on
moodle that all of our staff in the residence halls have either done or are in
the process of doing.

Introducing Next Steps

[00:15:55] Okay, so changing the sign... what I wanna talk about next is where we are
today and what we are going forward with, and we would like to join with you
to do together. Okay, so we want to work on with this issue together... This
summer, when the variance originally was submitted on all of the single-user
restrooms, the chair of the plumbing board told the staff member in the
physical plant who goes to the plumbing board hearings -- like these are
hearings where she has to do like... "I swear I'll tell the truth all the truth and
nothing but the truth" --

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[00:16:30] she was told that I will do these variances, but I will not, like we will not
consider any variances for multi-user restrooms and bathrooms. That was
very clearly stated at the plumbing board to Marty Smith, who's in the physical
plant. So that was the understanding that we were under all along. Over the
course of the last few weeks, due to your activism and our conversations,

[00:17:00] the university has really re-looked at our decision not to look at a variance for
the two bathrooms on the first floor of Baker. And so the university is actually
in agreement that this is a site-specific request for a specific community, and
is going forward with a variance request for the multi-user bathrooms on the
first floor of Baker.

[00:17:28] The intention is to have that variance request prepared by the end of this
month, so... I think that's the end of next week basically. And our colleagues
in the physical plant are actively working on that, it will be reviewed by legal
council of the university, to really look at -- we also don't want to put in a
variance request that might hinder our ability to ask for other requests in the
future. So we don't want to make it so specific that the plumbing board is
saying, well you asked for that and you said that it was site-specific, now why
are you asking for something else over here that's also site-specific?

[00:18:00] and start to go "what are you doing?," so we're going to have legal council look
at that. And one of the things that we're gonna ask all you, for any of you are
interested in doing, is actually including testimonials with that variance
request. Now we can include all we want as part of that packet, and the
person who submits that and goes to the hearing board really does believe that
your heartfelt testimonials about why this is important to you in your
community are actually gonna help that request.

Floor-to-Ceiling Partitions Introduced

[00:18:31] So that will be going forward, and I can answer some more questions about
that. I'm a res ed person, I'm not a facilities person, so there may be facilities
questions and plumbing code and variance questions I can't answer, but we'll
definitely get information back to you on that. So that's going forward... We
are also... we've been working on, already, and continue to actively look at

[00:19:00] the... we don't have any of these, but-- we believe, although it is not outlined
in the plumbing code, that floor-to-ceiling partitions for toilets and showers
would likely meet the requirement of that single-use stipulation in the
plumbing code, and would receive a variance. So we have looked at doing that
in residence halls in a number of locations.

[00:19:28] We are now actively looking at that for the two bathrooms in Baker, and again
our staff in design and construction management believe that that is a
construction project that we could do in those facilities. The things that we
have to do with that, it's not as simple as slapping up some floor-to-ceiling
partitions -- I wish it was, 'cause we would just go in there... Every unit needs
to be sprinkled and ventilated, so every single stall, and when you touch a
bathroom like that you have to make the bathroom ADA accessible -- which is
what we would want to do whenever we're doing a major renovation on a
bathroom.

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[00:20:01] So when you do that work, you actually lose fixtures in your bathroom when
you make a bathroom accessible... and in the plumbing code -- for those of
you again if you've dug through this I respect you because I have as well and it
is not the most exciting reading -- but there's another part of the plumbing
code that talks about fixtures to people ratios, that you have to have a certain
number of toilets and showers per number of people.

[00:20:29] And so when we look at doing these sorta floor-to-ceilings we also have to look
at, do we still end up with the number of fixtures we need for the plumbing
code! It all comes back to the law... And we believe, because on the first floor
of Baker those bathrooms are the same as the ones up on the upper floors for
those of you who live there, but there's no residents in about half the floor,
right? The whole lobby, the offices, the apartments, so there are fewer
students to then make up those ratios in those bathrooms.

[00:21:00] We've looked at other places where taking out one fixture has brought us out
of compliance with the plumbing codes, we've moved onto other places. So we
are actively looking up that project -- that's not a quick, short-term thing, like
if we were to do that kind of construction it would be next summer that we
would do that. And we are gonna continue to look at that across campus, it's a
conversation we've had actively over the past year, about how do we increase
the number of gender-inclusive bathrooms we have in our residence halls to
meet the needs of our community.

Changing MA Law Introduced

[00:21:35] And then the final thing that there's been initial conversations on, and I think
some of the things that many of you are interested in, is how do we go forward
to change the law in the state of Massachusetts? The plumbing code is
antiquated, it does not meet our needs

[00:21:58] If I could go forward with having a multi-stall gender-inclusive bathroom, at

least one in every residence hall, by changing the sign I would have done it
already. And if we could do that, that would be amazing. Because the cost of
what we're talking about, around conversions in the construction, is pretty
astronomical, and also often includes losing beds, which is revenue, it's space
for students to live on campus. We're certainly talking about it, and looking at
it, and trying to actively do that,

[00:22:31] but that is a very long-term-- right, as we try to look at every residence hall
that only has multi-user bathrooms in it... it's really challenging for us, from a
facilities perspective. So we've had some preliminary conversations with Chris
Dunn, who's the legislative liaison in the Boston office of the President's office,
and Chris is trying to identify who the legislators are who are most actively
overseeing some of these processes, to start to engage them.

[00:23:05] I will admit, there's not a strategy yet. I know some students are also talking
to student legal services about what the strategies would be from a student
perspective to really change the law. So although I don't have answers as to
what the next steps are, I commit to you to continue to ask those questions
and bring that forward around how the university is gonna move forward
around the changes to the plumbing code that we need to meet the needs of
all members of our community.

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[00:23:31] Single-use gender-inclusive bathrooms meet everybody's needs, y'know, the
single-use bathrooms are not only gender-inclusive, often they're accessible,
there are also people who because they were victims or survivors of assault
also want those facilities, they use them for medical reasons, for cultural
reasons, they want to be in a facility that is private.

[00:24:02] And so there's a lot of different reasons why we wanna continue to move
forward with this. Okay -- committee, Julie, did I miss anything as I ran
through my notes? [EXTENDED PAUSE] 'Cause I didn't read them, I tried to get
the highlights

JULIE: [INAUDIBLE]

Testimonials Requested

[00:24:28] JEAN: Yeah. So... we'll give you all some time to-- certainly I wanna open it up for
questions and feedback and comments, we wanna talk about the testimonials
as well... I brought some paper, so if people want to just sit here and write
something to submit tonight we could do that, but we would want any of those
back from you by the end of the day Monday so we can make sure that it's in
that variance packet that's gonna be done by the end of next week.

[00:25:00] If you live in the Baker community I'm gonna offer Oprah and Abby that they
can collect those and get them back to me so we can get them in the packet.
If you don't live in Baker I have cards card here, you could either drop them in
my office in Berkshire House -- Berkshire House, not Berkshire dining hall -- so
don't go to the dining hall looking for me. I'm on the second floor of Berkshire -
- or email them to me. So you can take my card either for further comments
or questions or to submit the testimonials.

[00:25:31] But like I said, we can give you time this evening to start those. 'Cause I'm one
of those people, if I don't do it right away it's gonna be Monday at 4:45
because I've done other things, and I know -- even for those things I'm
passionate about, I procrastinate. Some of you may not be those people and
you'll do them tonight, but we wanted to give you space here. Make sense?
What did I miss?

Plans for Immediate future

[00:26:00] Um... yes, thank you, Pat -- he was looking at my notes. The one thing I just
wanted to mention, in order to submit the variance, the person who does the
variance request needs to go this week to take photos of the two multi-stall
bathrooms. So Marty's working directly with Oprah to do that-- what day?
Wednesday?

OPRAH: Thursday Morning

JEAN: Thursday. Thursday Morning. And... in order to do that, we need to have the
sign be in compliance.

[00:26:31] Now I know the sign has been changed, right? Someone took down the sign, a
gender-inclusive sign went up? We, this week, need to put that sign back up,
the female sign, in order for those photos to be taken. Okay? So just so we
understand that? If you... put the paper sign back up afterwards? I won't

9
[00:27:00] Because I actually-- I want members of the community to use that bathroom in
the way that you always have. Okay? That's what I want, and so if that's what
we need to do, I didn't say it -- person from the Collegian, okay? [LAUGHS] Off
the record, that was an off the record comment. Okay? So is that...? We'll go
in tomorrow, put up the sign again so that we can get the photos taken on
Thursday.

[00:27:30] So we're in compliance with the code. Okay? I know some of you have to leave,
if you want, take my card on your way out, I will put them... I'm gonna put my
card over here on the recycling, so if you have to leave and you wanna send
something to me it's here, just don't drop it inside... whole stack. And Julie's
gonna take notes, and she has to leave at ten-of to go to a program.

Q&A Period Begins

[00:28:00]
So we'll take comments and questions, and I'm gonna just... rather than having
people do this for an hour, 'cause I know that's really tiring and I can't do this,
we're just gonna sweep the room, okay? So if there's people kinda in this
section who have questions, and then we'll move this way, and then we can
move back. I just don't want people to be like "ah, uh, uh" for a long time,
that's not... that's not helpful to your arm. So -- anyone over here have a
comment, question? Anything you wanted answered that we didn't talk about?

[00:28:30] Not yet? How about the middle? Yes?

Q&A 1

*ALEX: Yeah, I guess I have a question about the decision of residence education to
not notify the people living in this community before they signed up? I was a
DRC RA for Nuance for two years, and a lot of people chose that community
specifically for the different things that that community provided. So I just, I
don't understand that decision. So could you just clarify that a little bit?

[00:29:00] JEAN: So frankly, we didn't. And we were back and forth a little bit on the timing,
we didn't have a decision back in the spring around the timing. We were
working with the vice chancellor and others around -- we know we need to do
this, when are we gonna do it? We didn't have the authorization to go forward,
and we didn't communicate. And so I apologize

[00:29:30] and I hope we never have to do it again. But I don't have a good answer for
that. We didn't have a final decision at the time that people were signing up
for the community, around the timing of changing the sign. Yes?

Q&A 2

*TAYLOR: If you... if you knew that you had to take down the sign, why didn't you start
all the processes you're talking about to get it legally put back up a year ago,
when you knew that you would have to do it eventually?

[00:30:00] I mean it kinda seems like you're only working on that now because we're mad?
And it should've been really obvious that we were gonna be mad before you
did it.

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 JEAN: Yeah... [EXTENDED PAUSE] So -- I actually don't, I had not been part of the
committee so I don't know what the conversations have been to be honest, but
I think that, y'know, because of what the plumbing code chair said to our staff
member

[00:30:30] it wasn't an option on the table that the university was willing to consider until
all of you brought this issue to people's attention. And I know that's not helpful
for all of you, but that's how it happened, that people were finally able to
say... that we can look at this as a site-specific need of this community. So...
because it was the belief that the plumbing board would not consider it.

[00:31:00] We actually need the local state inspector from the town who works in this
area to actually bring that variance forward. And so this early in the semester,
Marty Smith from physical plant actually talked to the local inspector about
the needs of this community, and the inspector said "yes I will bring this
forward." So... that's where we are. So in some ways I think changing the sign,
honestly

[00:31:30] got people to consider this differently. And I'm not sure that they would've
before. And I know that's, again, not helpful, but that's sometimes how things
work, politically, so... Yes?

Q&A 3

*JAY: You are welcome to take my words back to the committee members who are
not here... I just wanted to say, I'm not satisfied with that answer,

JEAN: [CROSSTALK] And I don't expect you to be!

[00:32:00] JAY: and I don't... it had been a gender-neutral space for two years, despite the
plumbing code... I don't understand why we couldn't have just gone on not
being in compliance. Fuck what the law says -- excuse my language. But... I
think, if the university really cared about trans people, they would've just kind
of put that in a drawer and not taken it out. Ever. Just kinda let people do
what they needed to do.

[00:32:30] JEAN: Yep, I hear you. And we will take that back to the rest of the board. Yes? I'm
gonna keep going this way and then I'll come back, so you don't have to keep

Q&A 4

SIBELLE: First of all, I would like to continue that sentiment, saying that I do believe
that if "hate has no home at UMass" the university should put its money its
mouth is. If you're going to spend money for so many large banners,

[00:32:58] you can spend money for a few partitions.

[GROUP SNAPPING AND MAKING COMMENTS & SOUNDS OF APPROVAL]

Now, on a completely different note: I would very much like to know why the
initial correspondence regarding this bathroom was sent to Gender Liberation
UMass and not to residents of Baker Hall. The initial correspondence
responding all of these changes of this gender-neutral bathroom was sent to a
group which used to meet on campus regarding the

11
[00:33:33] propagation of gender-neutral bathrooms on campus. Why was this information
not sent to the students directly who would be involved with this process? Why
did you not communicate to those who would be directly affected?

JEAN: I am honestly not aware that it went to Gender Liberation UMass first.

[00:34:00] And so I'd love to hear the details from you about when that was sent and by
whom so I can track that down, I am not aware of that.

SIBELLE: You will receive all of the details.

JEAN: Thank you.

SIBELLE: Promptly.

JEAN: 'Cause I know our, y'know, we sent it from Living At UMass on Monday the 28th
or whatever that Monday was... I am not aware of that email prior to that. So
thank you for sharing that. Yes?

Q&A 5

HELENA: Just to clarify, you said you knew you were out of compliance for the past
year and a half?

[00:34:30] And it took you a year and a half to speak to any of us about this? And you
knew about it being a problem already? I mean, you just kinda leave out the
end of the summer, it's been quite awhile.

JEAN: Right.

HELENA: According to you. That's true?

JEAN: That we've known for awhile?

HELENA: And haven't communicated with any of us about it?

JEAN: Um... I have not, no.

HELENA: The committee should do that.

JEAN: Right.

HELENA: [INAUDIBLE]

[00:35:00] JEAN: Yes, there's two back here, so whoever wants to go first

Q&A 6

HELEN: Hi, I'm a res life employee. I just wanna say that through this meeting, through
everything I've heard about this, all the language has been very policy-oriented
and not every people-oriented. And, I mean, you can take this to whoever,
take it to the rest of the committee or whatever, but when you talk to us as

12
 students... we're not just numbers, we're actual people, like I'm an actual non-
binary student who is affected by this, and

[00:35:30] again, like what this person was saying, if you really wanna claim that "hate
has no home at UMass" and say that you're putting students first... like, you
gotta act on it. And I would just say, for future things, maybe if you're talking
to students, change their language so we're not just a bunch of numbers. We're
like, actual people who are trying to live their lives here. So yeah.

JEAN: Thank you for the feedback. And there was someone behind you?

*SAM: I just wanted to hear what they had to say.

[00:36:00] JEAN: Okay. Justin?

Q&A 7

JUSTIN: Yeah? Um... going off that, yeah, I would love to just quickly draw attention
to the fact that this has been discussed the entire time as a "bathroom issue,"
and I ask for who this is an issue? 'Cause I don't think it's an issue for trans
people, that we're using bathrooms in a certain way, I think it's an issue that
like... cis people have 'cause they don't "get it." Just wanted to draw attention
to that quickly.

[00:36:30] But also I just wanted to mention very briefly that I'm very interested in and
very perplexed by the fact that Title IX, which is a federal law that protects
trans students and protects trans student amenities, has not seemingly been
taken into consideration at all throughout this entire process. And that a piece
of state legislation from a public code board in Massachusetts has this
incredible power over Title IX

[00:37:02] that I just think is kind of, like... y'know, it doesn't sound legit, sorry. It
doesn't. Could you speak to that-- or anyone else on the committee, like Julie
or Pat, y'know you can talk to us too... you don't have to just sit there

JULIE: No, um... yeah, I hear that and I wish I had a better, like, response to that,
and I think that's really valid and... I don't have a solu-- yeah, I hear that, and
that's a really valid point.

[00:37:32] JUSTIN: Great! When can we hear back about that?

JEAN: Um, so one of the things we're gonna do is give updates on-- we talked in the
meeting last week about putting updates up on the Stonewall page, and so
some of these questions we're not able to answer, we'll put the answers there.

JULIE: Sorry to cut anyone off-- I think that is something that came up in the
committee,

[00:37:58] that Title IX is also something we have to take into consideration, so I can look
back through my notes and see kind of where we landed with that. But it is
something that came up and-- yeah, we can put that answer on that hub or
whatever it is.

13
 JEAN: Yeah. And if, y'know, I know many of you have read the state law as well, as
have I, around... the rights of trans folks in Massachusetts. And so

[00:38:30] I don't have it in my folder so I can't quote it, but... so our policy aligns with
that... and is in... bathrooms around having to be designated... is in conflict,
but not necessarily direct clash-- this is what laws do, they conflict with each
other. The attorney general was pretty clear in that language around the
parameters of that law in the state of Massachusetts. So we can put that up
for people to review,

[00:39:01] and again I don't expect us to all agree on the interpretation of that, but...
We've talked-- I know I've talked about that and asked about that, and have
read it myself. So... so we don't all have to agree on the interpretation. Any
other ones back in this little section? And then we'll go... Yes? Oh, sorry. Hands
on the floor. Hi!

Q&A 8

[00:39:28] ISABELLE: I'm another RA, um... I'm just gonna like echo one of the things they said
about these talking about people, and talking about something like
[INAUDIBLE] most important thing about being an RA is caring for your
residents, and I am fucking petrified for these residents, like all y'all,
like...aah! Literally it's impossible for an RA to do their job because it's unsafe
and not good and affects the entire living arrangement. And it's not just me
crying and screaming because... it's... I can't even put it to words how upset I
am about this because I'm so worried about [INAUDIBLE]

[00:40:02] JEAN: Thank you.

Q&A 9

LUKE: I have many questions, a lot of them taking issue with the way that this was
just presented to us just now. So one of the things you said was, "if we could
just hang the sign we would've done it," right? But because it's a monumental
financial investment you can't.

[00:40:30] Which begs the question, when do we become worth it? When do we become
worth spending money on? We know could've had it before, we know there was
already a possible solution that could've been implemented over the summer,
rather than just like... I also have to ask why we are expected to give our
testimonies for the plumbing board when, if you care about us as residents as
students as people,

[00:41:00] you can't advocate for us, you can't bring yourself to that plumbing board
already ready to go, ready to explain why this is important, ready to explain
why we matter.

JEAN: And I was actually on my way over here drafting my letter to the plumbing
board to include in the packet in my head, to complete by the end of the
week. But I think we also wanted to allow people to include their voices so
they choose, and so there are other leaders on the campus who work for the
campus who are also gonna include information about that.

14
[00:41:30] LUKE: But then that could've been dealt with already. You could've advocated for us
proactively, you could've brought it out before we made it a problem. It seems
kind of like this wasn't a problem to reslife, this wasn't a problem to anyone
else until you changed the sign and we got angry, and now you wanna channel
that anger into us getting it changed for ourselves by getting our testimonies
to the plumbing board.

[00:41:57] I also have to ask why construction changes would be going through next
summer when this is something that's been in debate for, like you said, around
a year and a half -- why we weren't considered ahead of time, why these
weren't just implemented over the summer instead of just changing the sign.
These are things that it seems like were already figured out. I don't understand
why that hasn't taken place.

Possible Risks of Non-Compliance

JULIE: One of the things that came up before was that -- not just there being a
financial fine, and I don't think anyone knows that would look like if we were
to just sort of ignore the policy and keep things the way they were --

[00:42:33] but something that came up in some other meetings was that, in addition to
whatever financial repercussions, that the community could actually be shut
down because they're not in compliance. And I know that seems far-fetched
and like... really out-there, or how would even that work, but that, to me,
like... I would hate to see that happen. And I think, to touch on something
else you had mentioned about why wait so long,

[00:43:00] and I think that's a really valid question. For me personally, I was hoping that
we wouldn't be in this position, and that we would not have to change the
signage in Baker and that we could continue on as business as usual, so... I
know that's not, like, a super-satisfying answer, but I think, like, when I heard
that one of the possibilities was that the community could actually be...
y'know, not able to be used period because of compliance, that, y'know, would
obviously not be a great situation, and so

[00:43:30] LUKE: The way I see it, the only thing holding us together right now is ourselves.
Dismantling us as a certified DRC on campus does not change anything right
now. The only special living arrangement we had before, the only-- I mean,
besides DRC events, DRC retreats-- most people came for the bathroom. Most
people came for the community, which will still be there. So why not be in
communication with us, decide whether we want to go ahead even if it means
us being disbanded.

[00:44:02] That, originally, that power wasn't given to the people it affects, it was made
above us.

JULIE: Sorry, if I could clarify -- I don't think I explained that very well. What my
understanding was, and I could be wrong and obviously I have no idea how this
would be enforced, but when I say the community would be disbanded what I
actually meant was like the-- people would not physically be able to live in
Baker, that was the explanation that we were given, if the compliance wasn't
met, so

15
[00:44:30] Again, I have no idea how that would be enforced or what we would do with--
y'know, where the students would live, but... y'know when I heard that I
thought "that wouldn't be an ideal situation for anyone." So I'm sorry, I didn't
explain that very well. But I wanted to clarify.

LUKE: It's just, there seems to be a lot of like... "could have been"s or... "could have
done research"...

JULIE: Yep

LUKE: and then we figured out it wasn't. Because we weren't in your minds.

PAT: So-- so I guess, as somebody who's on the committee, I will... I will say you're
right.

[00:45:00] That we probably could have been better, and we didn't, and we failed. And...
nothing, like, nothing is going to walk back on us being [INAUDIBLE] before,
like there's nothing that I can really think of to say right now that would make
a change. What I can say is that you're right, we look at this... we probably
could've, and probably should've, advocated differently. And of course that's
not... We didn't.

[00:45:30] We're trying to take the correct steps to move forward now. It doesn't change
what we did in the past to cause the harm that all of you are sharing with us. I
just know that, for me personally, y'know, there was probably-- there was an
opportunity for us to maybe advocate harder, and we didn't do it properly.
And that is... I absolutely agree, something we could've done. I do believe
that.

[00:46:00] And I know it doesn't make it better.

This Issue as Priority?

LUKE: One last thing I have to say before I give the space back is... how do we know
that that's the focus, that that is what happens going forward from here?
Because right now we're seeing empty promises -- how can we know that in
the future we are protected, how do we know that you are going to advocate,
how can you prove it to us now if you couldn't before?

PAT: I mean, for me personally -- and I can only speak for myself -- um... this is an
opportunity for me to take a step forward, and

[00:46:30] [INAUDIBLE] but there's nothing I can say here that's gonna convince you until
the next time that we have something that we can show. I do think that...
y'know, participating in this process and trying to make this go is a first step,
at least for me. And, y'know, I will try to do better by it.

[00:47:00] I can't promise perfection, but I also don't like that there's been harm that has
been felt by this community.

LUKE: So can I... can I hear that this is going to expedited, everything that's going to
be done to make this go through is going to happen as soon as possible?
Because right now this is affecting residents, it's affecting people as we speak.

16
 And the longer it goes on the more harm it does. So we need agreement that
we're going to do everything, the university, to get it done now.

[00:47:30] Not that it's gonna get done next semester, not that it's gonna get done next
summer, but like... have clear steps, show us what those steps are, show us
that you're doing them, because there hasn't been communication.

JEAN: Yep. So a couple of things that we've agreed to already, and if I haven't shared
them already I will, is one to have that variance request for these bathrooms
completed by the end of this month and before the plumbing board. And so
we've made a commitment to do that by the end of September and have
everything in place so that we can get before the plumbing board as soon as
they're able to schedule a hearing -- if they schedule a hearing or not.

[00:48:02] And then... y'know, it'll be up to all of us -- or, y'know it's not us who then plan
what the construction looks like, but to really stay on top of all of that. And
I'm committed to that, both for this community and for our long-term plans in
the residence halls, because I want to do more projects around floor-to-ceiling
bathrooms here in the summer, and stretched out long-term in our halls.

[00:48:30] And so I know, from a construction planning perspective, if we don't have a

plan in the next three to four weeks we're not gonna have a design to do that
this summer, that's the time -- like we are already working on design plans for
things for two summers from now. This past summer -- and again, I know this
doesn't affect the residents of Baker --

[00:48:58] but a year and a half ago we started to plan to take a staff apartment that we
are not using in Webster, and we did create from that staff apartment two
single-use gender-inclusive bathrooms, a student room, and a lounge. So that
was planned out over a year and a half because there weren't any gender-
inclusive bathrooms in the Orchard Hill area, so we wanted to create another
option in the space that we had -- that didn't require taking off student rooms.

And again, this floor-to-ceiling is not yet tested in front of the plumbing
[00:49:28] board, and so this has been a project people have been looking at and we
believe that we can do it in Baker. The other thing that we committed to is,
on the Stonewall website, do regular updates there around the work of the
committee and what's going forward. So I commit to you that we will put
updates there. Take my card, 'cause you can email me [INAUDIBLE].

HELENA: So is that a yes?

JEAN: What?

HELENA: Is that a yes to Luke's question? Or...?

JEAN: That we're gonna do everything that

[00:50:00] HELENA: [CROSSTALK] Yeah

JEAN: we possibly can as soon as we can? Yes, and the things that I have -- y'know,
that I can do. And I think other people here, y'know, Pat said the same thing,
so.

17
 LUKE: So if-- say the variance gets rejected, let's not worry yet, you say.

JEAN: Right, no. I talked about three different things, right? That those are all kind
of active at the same time: the variance, the construction project, and the
changing of the law. Those are all things that're kind of-- it's not this and then
that and then that,

[00:50:29] it's all being worked on at the same time. Thank you. You've had your hand up
for awhile.

Q&A 10

*TAYLOR: Um, well, first off, I just think it's kind of disgusting that you come in front of
these community members and refer to students as "beds" and revenue, but...
my question really is: what is the penalty for not complying? And how long do
you have to comply, since you've already been actively out of compliance for a
year and a half and there haven't been any measures taken against it?

[00:50:58] JEAN: My understanding -- okay, so again I'm not the physical plant person, I'm a
student life person -- my understanding, from conversations about this, are
there are a number of different things that can happen if you are found out of
compliance. One is there are financial fines to the university, which in
residence halls that is student money, 'cause we are functioning all on student
fees, so it's students living in the residence halls -- all you -- who would pay all
these fines.

[00:51:29] The plumbing board can shut down that bathroom if it's out of compliance,
and then say that because there's not a bathroom there we can't host people
in that community. That's also my understanding.

TAYLOR: Well.. UMass also takes a lot of state money, so if you kicked people out
that're paying money to UMass, which is also state, the legal implications of
kicking people out that have already paid for housing would be... would cancel
out [INAUDIBLE]

JEAN: Well we would have to house people elsewhere,

[00:52:01] and we would do that, but it would mean moving people elsewhere who live
there.

TAYLOR: And how long do you have to comply?

JEAN: I'm not -- I don't know the answer to that. We can find out.

TAYLOR: What was the urgency, then, to change the sign?

JEAN: The urgency was... as I explained before -- and again, I know it's, y'know, as I
said I don't expect people to agree -- but because the university was
continuing to make progress with the plumbing board across campus on a
number of different things and wanted to continue work,

[00:52:30] really felt like we needed to be remain in compliance in order to continue to

work with the plumbing board. That the plumbing board would not be
amenable to making further progress if we were not staying in compliance.

18
 That was the feeling of people who were doing the work with the plumbing
board. So. Yes?

Q&A 11

[00:52:56] *ELLIE I just wanna voice that like, I know that this is a meeting about these
bathrooms, but it's disgusting that there's not gender neutral showers in res
halls across campus.

JEAN: [CROSSTALK] I AGREE

ELLIE: 'Cause there are trans students everywhere who are feeling unsafe and
unwelcome in these spaces, and if I as an RA have to go to these residents and
say "hey, no hate a UMass, you are home here," and then also say in the same
breath "you cannot use the bathroom, though, sorry..." it is absolutely
disgusting and... it just really says a lot about what we're actually doing for
our residents.

[00:53:30] JEAN: Yes?

Q&A 12

COLLEGIAN Hi... um... it's a little loud, I'm right by the door, um... I'm from the Collegian,
REPORTER: I was wondering -- I've noticed,whenever I walk into my Chinese class in Herter
I see there's construction and building going on... why is that construction
considered more important to focus on than creating bathrooms for students?
And why do you want to dedicate the money to buildings and sports teams
instead of to students?

[00:54:00] Specifically students.

JEAN: I'll be very brief about how finances work at the university, 'cause... but
residential life functions on the fees that students pay to residential life to
live in residence halls. We pay for all of our own work in the residence halls.
So they're different pots of money, is the really simple answer to that
question, without going into more detail. And so we

[00:54:30] we don't have money available that the university is borrowing for other
buildings on campus for us, in the residence halls, to do work.

COLLEGIAN And this is awkward, this is for me as a person who's interested in this... how
REPORTER: are you all personally affected? Like you run the bathroom committee, but
how are you all personally affected by not being able to go to a bathroom that
makes you feel safe?

[00:54:58] PAT: So... I'll answer for myself, um... I'm a straight white guy, like... I'm not. So...
and, y'know, the reason that I am a member of this committee is because
there are people in my life that are very dear to me, that I would consider like
family to me, that this does impact. But me personally... you're right, I've
never had to fear what would happen to me if I use a restroom.

[00:55:29] JULIE: I also am not impacted as a cisgender person, and -- just a fun fact, staff
members who live on campus have their own bathrooms, so... it does not
impact me with all of my cisgender privilege, but it does impact me on the

19
 level that this is something that impacts my residents deeply every single day,
so

JULIA: And I'll say the same thing, I mean... the fact that we are sitting here... I can
feel the pain, y'know, it's very palpable in this space.

[00:56:00] There's no way that anyone who has a heart cannot feel that. And that's how
it's impacting me. You cannot just sit here and not feel the pain that is very
clear in this space and not be impacted by it.

JEAN: And I'll say the same, it doesn't impact me personally, but as a leader in this
organization who wants to have the money to convert our bathrooms in every
residence hall 'cause we're not meeting the needs of our students, that is
really important to me.

[00:56:30] And... you're not in meetings when we're talking about capital planning, but
every meeting we're talking about bathrooms. Because that's more important
to me than other things, because I know it affects people.

*KELLY: Are there records that we can obtain to see you talk about your want for
bathrooms at every meeting?

JEAN: We don't keep-- I don't think we keep minutes of our capital planning
meetings, I'm sorry.

LUKE: We-- we do keep minutes of RA council and it did not come up last semester, I
can say that.

[00:57:01] JEAN: Yeah, you've had your hand up for awhile.

Q&A 13

OLLIE: I honestly really wish you would've let me speak before half the room left,
because I feel like what I have to say right now is really fucking important. As
a disabled nonbinary student who lives on the first floor of Baker, I cannot --
and my disabled friends who live on the first floor of Baker -- cannot be
expected to share our two single stall disability-accessible bathrooms with the
thousand other students that live in that building.

[00:57:32] I have a friend who was told that he can just move if sharing our bathrooms --
the only bathrooms we can use -- doesn't work for him. I have only showered
twice since coming here because I cannot wait three fucking hours to take a
shower.

JEAN: Thank you for sharing that. Yes? Oh, sorry, you haven't been able to speak. Do
you mind if I go back to someone who hasn't spoken yet?

Q&A 14

[00:58:00] ROBIN: Thank you. Um... one, I want to know... well you touched on this earlier, what
happens if these plans don't go through? It sounds like you're not in control of
money, so what I wanna know is... can you get this construction project going
more forward, can we have blueprints of what you have designed to get this

20
 going? Because what happens if the variance goes through, and I know
changing laws in states is a very long process.

[00:58:30] Those are not answers to making this-- those are not reasonable answers for
fixing this problem that did not need to be a problem in the first place. I'm a
transgender guy, and the only reason I'm still here and still in college is
because that bathroom exists, okay? I came out my first year, miserable, and
then I

[00:58:58] That bathroom was the reason why I was able to get back on my feet and get
back into an academic track that allows me to pass. Not having that bathroom,
a multi-stall bathroom is telling me that I'm not allowed to exist in public. And
you know what? I can exist in public, and be a professional, and still be trans.

Q&A 15

SIBELLE: I'd just like to, again, continue on the same sentiment

[00:59:30] I'd just like to share a story that's not my own, but... I did live in Gorman a
few years ago, when there was an incident in the restroom. I would just like to
reiterate how imperative it is that these bathrooms exist -- not only for the
psychological well being of students, but for the academic well being of the
students, which is very much impacted by the psychological, okay?

[01:00:01] When you have friends in freshman year who are showering at 3AM because it's
the only time they feel safe, when you have friends who are showering in the
public shower in the ILC and not in their dorm, because that is the only place
that they feel safe, this university has a problem.

[01:00:30] JEAN: Justin?

Q&A 16

JUSTIN: I also would like to sort of job our institutional memory for a little bit, and
draw attention to the fact that trans students have been having meetings
about this with administration for years -- like literally for years now. This is
not a new issue at all, and we have been coming to y'all over and over again,
telling you all that this is urgent and this needs to happen now,

[01:01:01] I think I was actually at the meeting, like, specifically that Sibelle is
referencing.

SIBELLE: Yes, you were.

JUSTIN: I was. I don't go here anymore... but... Like, what... y'know, I think-- I'll be
really frank, you're getting a lot of snark and you're getting a lot of attitude
from everyone in this room because you broke our trust. Like, a lot. Like over
and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

[01:01:29] You've just like, broken our trust a lot, and we've been in meetings like this,
we've been in meetings face-to-face, across the table from each other,
y'know, we've known each other on a first-name basis Jean, like... I know
we've been in this situation before. And nothing's happened. So I think that's
kind of what Luke is saying, and I think that's kind of what everyone here is

21
 saying when we're kind of, like, getting to the point where we're like yelling
and crying in front of you, being like

[01:02:00] how is this any different? 'Cause really we don't -- I'll be frank, y'all have shown
that this is not a priority for a really long time. Y'know, I know I've exhausted
myself, I know a lot of people have exhausted themselves trying to get
everyone's attention. I probably need therapy 'cause of all the shit I've had to
deal with on this campus and with administrators specifically. This is

[01:02:30] this isn't new! This isn't new, and... I think if y'all are actually really sincere
about this, you need people like us, you need students, in your meetings...
you need people like, monitoring this and holding you accountable, because
right now there is no way for us to hold you accountable. You can say
whatever you wanna say, and I believe that you have the best intentions and
all that stuff, but like... at the end of the day people need specifics.

[01:03:01] And it doesn't matter what intentions anyone has.

JEAN: And that-- I agree, and I would also say that... the committee is... wants
people to be involved, and invited students to do that, and I would invite
again, that if there are students in this room that wanna be on that
bathroom/restroom committee, give me your contact information and we will
include you in the committee. It doesn't meet every week, it meets
periodically.

[01:03:31] One of the things that group's working on right now is changing rooms in our
athletic facilities, and really taking a look at that and what work can be done
there. So that was one of the things I was gonna wrap up with, um... I know
schedules are challenging, and we want -- y'know, I've not been part of the
committee so I can't speak to the efforts that have been made... maybe Pat
and Julie can?

Committee Meetings & Publicity

*ARI How often does the committee meet?

ROBIN: And can you publish the date and times of the meetings, as well as the
agendas and meetings.

SIBELLE: Publically.

[01:04:00] ROBIN: Publically. So that all... yeah.

JUSTIN: And if y'all could like... meet more, so can speed this along? I personally think
that this is -- if this is made a priority, this is completely doable by December,
or over the break.

JEAN: Yeah, so I'll bring that back to the committee and say that you would like to
have that as part of what's on the Stonewall site, as to when the committee's
meet, the minutes of that, and inviting people to attend those meetings,
absolutely. Thank you.

[01:04:30] Are you trying to first hands for me?

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 Q&A 16

BRIDGE: Hi, quick question -- I'm hearing a lot of, y'know, "the committee wants," "the
committee thinks," "the committee duh-duh-duh-duh-duh"... Why isn't the
committee speaking? And I'm hearing a lot of "want" and a lot of "try"... and I
don't want to hear "want" and "try," I want to see it happen.

[01:05:00] I want to see it being done, because actions speak louder than words, and all
I'm hearing is words and I'm not seeing any actions. And that's unacceptable.
You need to do better.

JEAN: Yes. And I hear that... and we-- I just joined the committee this summer, to
be able to continue to work on this issue, I went to my lab actually this fall.
And other people on the committee aren't able to attend. So I'm... I'm not
committing because I'm not--

[01:05:30] I don't wanna commit for all sorts of people, but I just joined and said that I
would--

BRIDGE: --So where's their spokesperson? Why aren't they answering questions? Why
aren't people who are in the committee answering questions?

JEAN: We have a couple people from the committee who're--

JULIE: --So what, I don't wanna--

BRIDGE: --Please answer my question.

JULIE: Sure, so I don't wanna speak for the whole committee, but um--

BRIDGE: --Then who can? Who can speak for the whole committee?

JULIE: I don't know that anyone can, I--

BRIDGE: --Is there a consensus?

JULIE: I don't even know that there is,

[01:05:57] I think we're a pretty diverse group of folks from different parts of campus,
but--

BRIDGE: As are we, and we have a consensus: we want the bathroom.

JULIE: But what I would say, to speak to your sentiments, is that I'm with you, and it
hasn't been enough, and we need to do better. And, um... again, if I can, I can
say with a lot of confidence that that is how folks on the committee feel, that
we're with you and we wanna move forward and show you and demonstrate to
you that we're ready to take action and make those positive changes you're
talking about.

[01:06:30] JEAN: Yes?

Q&A 17

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 *RILEY: Um, hi... I'm not a current resident in Spectrum, but I'm a former resident of
Spectrum, and... when I sort of-- when this news was communicated to me,
about what was going on in Spectrum and the fact that Spectrum has lost its
gender-neutral bathroom,

[01:07:00] to me, what I really want... what I hope that you, and what you take to the
committee from this meeting, is not that... this is about more than "trans
students need this bathroom," this has been a symptom of a larger problem
that has existed in how the university accommodates LGBT students, how it
accommodates trans students.

[01:07:31] So, like... there's several reasons I don't live on Spectrum anymore. I would
love to go back to Spectrum. There is one single in all of Spectrum, serving a
community who is more likely to be disabled, who is more likely to require
single accommodations. There is no break housing in Spectrum, this is a
community who is often defined by not having places to go home to during
breaks.

[01:08:05] This -- I don't live on Spectrum because I needed a single, and because I can't
always go home. So when I heard "hey, Spectrum has lost its bathroom," what
struck to me is that to me this is a recurring pattern of how the university is
underserving this population and this demographic.

[01:08:30] This is more than about just one restroom, this is about how trans students are
feeling from the university. Yes we have this DRC, yes we have this space, but
it has always been an inadequate place. We have never had the supports that
we need from the university. The university has never taken into
consideration, "hey, a lot of the LGBT students who live on campus don't have
accepting homes that're safe to go to over break, we need to give them break
housing."

[01:09:01] They never thought, "hey, the Spectrum DRC is on the top of Orchard Hill, so
where's -- where does a disabled LGBT student go?" I don't walk using a cane
anymore, I've been through physical therapy, but when I first arrived at
university I was reliant on a cane. I... I had to make a choice between living in
disability--

[01:09:31] in other residential areas which I didn't have to walk up this hill, and in areas
where I would be safe as an LGBT student. And that's not something that I
expect the university can do something about, just like "alright we're gonna
move Baker" -- like I don't expect that, but what I'm saying is that this is part
of a habit where the university seems to treat the needs and the basic
requirements of their LGBT student community as an afterthought.

[01:10:00] The university is not proactive in considering what and LGBT student
community needs. They've given us a space, and I am grateful for that -- but
they have not taken into consideration what is needed in that space. This is
just another symptom of that failure to consider the actual needs of this
student population.

[01:10:30] JEAN: Thank you, I appreciate you summarizing this and I did not [DROWNED OUT BY
STUDENTS CLAPPING]

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 I appreciate you summarizing, and I've not heard this as just about that
bathroom. So I've heard this as a larger campus issue for all of you. So thank
you for summarizing all of that, I think that's important. Yeah? In the blue
shirt?

Q&A 18

[01:11:03] *CHRIS: So I've... prepared a bunch of questions, I'll definitely give you the opportunity
to respond. These are all about just the meeting and the information that's
been shared. So first... how important is this meeting to the university?
[EXTENDED PAUSE] That's the first question.

JEAN: Oh, that's the first question?

CHRIS: Yeah.

[01:11:30] JEAN: [LAUGHS] Um, so... how this meeting came about is that over the summer we
were meeting with Oprah, the residence director, and were talking about that
we thought it was really important to meet with the community to be able to
meet face-to-face and talk about this. And so... um... sorry [MUMBLES
INAUDIBLY] So to the university isn't a person? Okay?

CHRIS: Of course. It does have a committee though, you're a part of that.

[01:12:00] JEAN: Right, um... To me, personally, it was really-- for me it was really important
to be here and have this meeting. Hear from you, to hear the concerns, to talk
through this, help us prioritize going forward with some of the things that we
were able to do, and mostly to be able to hear from you and have some
facetime. So I can speak from me, I also know, y'know... I had a conversation
with the vice chancellor, Vice Chancellor Gelaye this afternoon about the
meeting,

[01:12:30] and I meet with her tomorrow and will update her on the meeting, so she will
also... was very committed to having this meeting happen and to hear back as
to what the conversation was.

JUSTIN: Where is she?

JEAN: Where is she...?

JUSTIN: Yeah, where is the vice chancellor?

JEAN: Uh... I don't know where the vice chancellor is right now.

JUSTIN: If she cares a lot about this meeting... I'm curious as to why she's not here.

[01:12:58] CHRIS: Alright, uh, next: you said you would relay information back to the committee.
Are you recording this meeting? Because I haven't seen you take like a lot of
notes, so--

JEAN: Julie's been recording for me.

CHRIS: Oh, good, thank you.

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 JEAN: Yes, and so is Pat. I am an abysmal notetaker. So I asked my colleagues to
please take notes for me so that we would be able to capture that.

CHRIS: So the committee will hear the exact words that everybody is saying,
completely unabridged, all that.

JEAN: Yep.

CHRIS: Okay. And then... yeah, I think that's it. Thank you.

[01:13:30] JEAN: Thank you.

Q&A 19

OPRAH: I just wanted to amplify a question that I heard in your statement, the
question that I heard was what happens-- we're relying on this variance, but
what is the plan if the variance is pushed down by the plumbing board? Was
that in there?

ROBIN: I tried-- so I tried asking what-- again, I ended up just... So the question was
one, what happens if this variance is shut down by the planning board, the
variance?

[01:14:01] What happens if UMass decides that it's too much money to do the
construction that sounds ridiculous? And what happens if, like... what happens
if we don't get permits? What happens then? What happens if things fail?
Because these are all very tenuous plans.

I agree, um... not that they're tenuous, but that I agree we have to have
JEAN: alternate but-- I truly believe, based on the conversations that I've had with
the person in physical plant and what was shared at the last bathroom
committee --

and I dunno if Pat and Julie would agree -- that renovations to those two
[01:14:30] bathrooms on the floor is feasible. Okay? That that is a project that can be
done, and that we could commit the finances to.

Okay... then also, a follow-up question to that is how long would this project
ROBIN: take? And why hasn't it happened yet? And why did you have to take down--

like, why didn't you do that over the summer rather than taking down this
[01:15:00] bathroom and making the only place that's specifically designated for students
like me not safe safe anymore? Why?

I think Pat did some answering of that, of what the committee... I'll let you
JEAN: repeat--

--So, like... there was um... I'm trying to think the best way to explain this,
PAT: like-- there wasn't an intent to... uh

[01:15:29] create this experience that you're describing. That was not what we were
trying to do, it was explained a little earlier... in order to, uh, protect the
variances that we'd asked for in other locations, in other areas, it was decided
that we needed to be in compliance with the code across the board so that it

26
 didn't impact some of the work that we were doing. As Jean mentioned, I can't
speak to how long a construction project is gonna take. I honestly can't, I can't
answer that question. What I can tell you, in terms of what I understand and
for the state of our variance,

[01:16:00] we have to change the sign back so that we can get the variance approved. It
sounds like the local plumbing board representative -- I can't remember the
person's name -- is in full support of requesting this variance for this specific
community, based on the needs... I'm gonna say again what I said previously, I
do not disagree that we could've and probably should've advocating in a
different way,

[01:16:30] more forcefully, prior to student response being what it was. I do think that
we were under an impression that it was just something that couldn't be done,
and couldn't happen, and that... and I don't think that it was right entirely,
but I think that we did not respond... I think we just sorta took that for what
it was and moved forward, as opposed to advocating.

[01:16:59] And you're right, I can't argue against that point -- we could've acted
differently. We're trying to move forward with it now. Uh... if it gets rejected,
from what I understand there is some form of a revisit or an appeal, I don't
know what that looks like, again I'm not familiar with the board or anything
and how that works necessarily, I haven't been taking point on that piece. I'm
trying to-- what am I missing on in answering your question? 'Cause I am trying
to

Addressing Committee Communications/Publicity

[01:17:28] ROBIN: Okay, so I-- thank you for answering how you did in terms of the plans and
thank you for giving me more information on that. Now I would like to know
why, also, why aren't all plans and all interactions that you guys have now
published? Because we now-- because, especially, we had had a sign and we
had-- from my understanding of it there was a variance in Amherst that we did
apply for and was approved, so... this is a state-level thing, which is
something that did not seem to be a problem a year ago when we-- if you have
a response, go for it.

[01:18:01] *DAN Me?

ROBIN: Oh, no? Okay, so... the thing is, is one: I understand that you messed up with
not communicating. What we wanna know is how are you going to
communicate with us so that we can see how everything is going down? You
have a room full of people who are now monitoring exactly how you're doing,
because you need to be accountable for making this straight.

PAT: And Jean's mentioned this a couple of times, and um

[01:18:30] and we've brought this up in a couple of -- in the last meeting this was also
something that was discussed as well... We are working with the Stonewall
Center, we are talking about publishing-- I think we talked, uh, about the form
of a blog? We talked about sharing information and minutes and what has
happened in these meetings and making that information public to the
community through -- right now the Stonewall Center website is the first step.
And we... are exploring a couple of different ways that we can

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[01:19:00] outside of just the website, be able to maybe communicate that with the
community as well.

ROBIN: Okay.

JEAN: I think your hand was up.

Q&A 20

*SHAWN: I would just like to say, as the night comes to a close -- or whenever it comes
to a close -- as you leave, I would like you all to keep in mind that -- at least
according to my understanding of the university financials, our tuition helps
pay for your salaries.

[01:19:30] We are paying you to do a good job of supporting us as students, and it's not
an eleven-dollar MASSPIRG thing, it's thousands of dollars that we shell out
each semester to make sure you can do your jobs. And right now I'm hearing a
lot of talk, a lot of wishing and wanting, and not doing your job, quite frankly.
And not enough communication... Like one of you guys didn't even know the
names for the plumbing person, like I feel like you aren't doing your jobs, and
we're paying you, and you have failed.

[01:20:05] JEAN: We'll keep going, so these two and then the two of you.

Q&A 21

ISABELLE: Hi, can I ask a clarification question?

JEAN: Sure.

ISABELLE: Okay, great. Um... what's your name?

JULIE: Oh, Julie.

ISABELLE: Julie, just a question for you on something that you said earlier... When Bridge
was asking you about why isn't the council, committee, unified, and you were
saying that "oh, we're from a bunch of different backgrounds,"

[01:20:32] to me that sounded like not all of your cared enough about this situation or
cared that people need to go the bathroom without even having to thinking
about it and cared that people didn't feel safe. So that's really what that
meant? And I'm not sure if that's what you meant? But I think you should be
more careful what you say, 'cause that sounds very scary to me

JULIE: Okay. Yeah, no, I'm glad you mentioned that, um... I can say with confidence
that everyone on the committee does care about, um... the folks and the very
real feelings that are being brought up,

[01:21:01] so I apologize if I miscommunicated that.

ISABELLE: And I think it's ridiculous that there's not unified voice on your side about this
issue.

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 JULIE: And I would also say, what I meant by that was I don't want to put words in all
of the committee members' mouths, but I do think

PAT: So I think on this issue, I do not think that the committee is divided over the
need for there to be multi-stall transgender-- or gender-inclusive bathrooms
and restrooms in the university.

[01:21:30] I do not feel that the committee is divided, that they are split, on... whether
that should happen. And so... if that's what was inferred by that statement
from Julie, I can tell you that... I feel like the committee, while they may not
have approached it in a way that was... like I said, was a failure in terms of
advocacy and action,

[01:21:59] I do feel like-- that the committee does want this to be the norm at the
university, that we have gender-inclusive bathrooms. And it's about bathrooms
and bathing facilities just as much as the restroom. I would point out any
member of that committee and I would say that they would agree with that
sentiment.

JULIE: To clarify, sorry, I just wanna clarify -- I don't wanna speak for the entire
committee, but I would echo Pat's sentiment that that is felt by every member
of the committee.

ISABELLE: I had just one last comment, um... I'm taking a [INAUDIBLE] class this year on
campus, and one of the things that we have to do always is present at the end
of class, presenting in front of the class. Whenever we do something like this,
there's always one person who's speaking for the group, who knows exactly
what to say, how everyone feels about a topic... if we can do it in class, you
guys can do it here. That's what I'm saying.

[01:23:00] JEAN: Yes?

Q&A 22

*DANA: Hi, my name is Dana and I'm a sociology PhD [10 SEC INAUDIBLE]. I have a few
things I'd like to say... one is that there's no excuse, um... this is an
institutional, structural inequality, it's an issue of discrimination... It's not a
particular issue to UMass or to this building or to this floor, it's an issue that's
pervasive in our society, the like... rules of the environment excludes access
to being able to pee. And that's an urgent need. For example, we're all gonna
need to pee before we go to bed, so this is urgent, we need it now, we need it
tonight,

[01:24:00] we needed it yesterday, um... There's no excuse. And especially I would like
to speak to the financial issues, because, um... as far as I can tell the
university can afford to put gender neutral restrooms in every building, um...
the university can afford to make all the bathrooms in the university gender-
inclusive... There's no excuse for why this can't happen, like this one bathroom
can't happen.

[01:24:30] But there's also no excuse for why it can't happen throughout the school. Um...
for financial reasons. That's just not reasonable.

JEAN: We're gonna keep going this way, if you'd [INAUDIBLE]

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 Q&A 23

LUKE: So I'd like to point out another thing that came to us around last week as RAs,
um... On my way to class I got an email telling me that I have to perform a
gender-neutral bathroom training, um

[01:25:00] taught, it says teachers, I don't remember all of the names -- I know yours is
on there -- by people that I presume are not experts in the field, by people
that I presume do not know what I am going through. I am a non-binary
student, I am in that bathroom every single day, and I have to be trained on
how to conduct myself, how to monitor people around me. I understand that
the sentiment is to make it safer for everywhere else on campus,

[01:25:30] but you have to understand that we are coming from a different place. We
have already been through these trainings, you have already put us through
these trainings. You have already reiterated to us that we need to go over the
bathroom policy at floor meetings. So why are we being asked, when we're the
people who are already affected by it, to continue giving you our labor, to
continue to do these trainings -- which I'm not even sure count into our 20
hours a week -- to do... y'know, perform extra service for something that
should be being done for us?

[01:26:03] JEAN: And I would answer to that is that the... there were a number of people
involved in developing that training, including staff members from the
Stonewall Center, um... I think... I was not involved in developing that
training, I may be listed as an instructor because our staff are asked to do
that. We did the training in person last year, and the committee moved the in-
person training that was done a hundred different times on campus to the
moodle training.

[01:26:36] And so I do believe that there are some people who are well aware of what's in
that training, and there are probably other staff members in residential life
who are not and that actually need the information, so..

LUKE: So this could've been worked in on a large scale into training, rather than
being done as an afterthought, after training happened, after we got angry --
because this is, quite frankly, y'know,

[01:26:59] around the same time that people started sending emails because they heard
the bathroom was taken away. This wasn't, y'know, way in preparation, this
wasn't ahead of time when we were trying to use our time effectively for the
position, this was thrown on us afterwards. And being who I am, it's
information that I need to know to live. Like it's information that... is here.
And it's easily a part of it. And it hasn't done.

[01:27:30] JEAN: And... you don't have to believe me, okay? So I hear what you're saying, and
you believe that it was in response to this, so I hear that, and I understand
how that's the impression. Um... the training had been developed over a
period of time... I'd wanted it to go out during the time that the staff were
back in August, um, it wasn't complete to do that. And so it went out after
move-in. So again--

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[01:27:59] LUKE: We can tell. We can tell it wasn't complete. We can tell that it's on open
Moodle rather than the other Moodle system that was always given to us for
extracurricular training. We can tell it wasn't done. We know it wasn't done in
time. That's not [INAUDIBLE]. The other thing I guess I would like to add in
here is... why are there names on that if they weren't directly involved with
creating it? Why don't we see the names of the people who were directly
involved in creating it? And why don't we see the names of the people who
were directly on the bathroom committee?

Names of Other Committee Members

[01:28:30] If they're not here, why don't we have their names, why don't we have their
contact information, why... why don't we have that alley?

JEAN: Sure. And we can ask-- honestly, I don't know what the... who the instructors
are in the training, I didn't look that deeply into it so we can look at that and
identify who was developing. And I can, with the help of other people, I can
tell you who else is on the bathroom and restroom committee. Um... Marty
Smith, from the physical plant;

[01:29:00] Dawn Bond, who's the director of residential life student services; Michelle
[INAUDIBLE], from the chancellor's office... um... Julie, Pat... Kristen Dedrick,
who's an assistant director in residence education for first years; Raquel, who's
last name... I don't recall... who's one of the attorneys in the student legal
services office.

PAT: Jeff [INAUDIBLE]

[01:29:30] JEAN: Jeff [INAUDIBLE]... um... and those are the people who were at the-- uh,
Genny Beemyn, sorry, Genny is on the committee, um... I'm just going around
the table, so that's what's happening in my head is trying to remember who's
sitting around the table. So that was everyone who was at the last meeting,
there is someone from athletics on the committee... do you know who that is?
Is it Dan?

PAT: It's not Dan [INAUDIBLE]

JEAN: Someone from athletics we--

PAT: [CROSSTALK] We work with Dan to make the arrangements to tour facilities.
There's not a regular standing member of the committee from athletics that
comes to every meeting.

[01:30:05] JEAN: So [INAUDIBLE] and then Oprah, um, will also be on the committee, has just
joined the committee now. As long as she agrees to continue, I'm putting her
on the spot, but we [INAUDIBLE]

LUKE: If we can

OPRAH: We'll see.

JEAN: Hey!

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 LUKE: Can we get that in writing, if there are already plans to, like, give that
information and be transparent can we get that immediately and that avenue-
-

JEAN: --Up on the Stonewall Center site, yep.

[01:30:30] LUKE: Okay. So I... by the end of the week? What-- when do we have the information
for the people who should've been here, who we thought were going to be
here.

JEAN: Right.

PAT: I will, um... I will see Dawn Bond, who is usually the one who runs the
meeting, tomorrow morning first thing, um... We will talk to her about what
we can do to make the arrangements to get committee information up by the
end of the week.

JEAN: And she's already -- Dawn has worked with Genny on identifying the place on
the Stonewall Center site that it will be.

[01:31:00] There's two links on the front page of the Stonewall Center, one is uh...
bathroom/restroom information, the other is trans policy, and I believe that
they were gonna put it in both of those places and Genny is gonna keep the
website up to date.

LUKE: And rather than just silently putting it up, could we also be emailed the same
way we were emailed about the information in the first place, and that be
given to us rather than hidden away and go find it if you want it?

JEAN: Yeah, I think we can, for the community in Baker -- I know there are people
here who are not part of the community, and so we don't know who all of you
are,

[01:31:31] but yes, we can do that.

LUKE: Thank you.

Q&A 24

JEAN: Yes? Bridge?

BRIDGE: Yes, thank you. Um... I am unimpressed with the answers that are being given
tonight. I am a student, I have been a student the majority of my life as I am
only 20 years old, and... I am hearing a lot of non-answers, roundabout
answers, and "I don't know"s. And "I'm not a part of that," and "I can't speak for
this person,"

[01:32:00] "I can't speak for this group"... My question is... when can we get our answers -
- actual answers, to our questions? Where are the people who have this
information? Where can we contact them? Just... why aren't they here? Why
aren't the people who have the answers here, and, if they couldn't be here,
which understandable [INAUDIBLE], I am a student... It's a little bit painful,
y'know, the scheduling... but... Why aren't you more prepared?

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[01:32:30] Why don't you have more prepared answers? Why don't you have a list of
everyone who's on the bathroom committee, as you were clearly struggling to
remember everyone's names? Why isn't there a list? Why don't you have
legitimate answers for legitimate questions from your students? Where are the
answers? Where are the people?

JEAN: I did say at the beginning, other people either had family commitments or had
medical--

BRIDGE: --I understand that. I understand that as well. Very very much.

[01:33:00] I too have, you know, illnesses and family commitments, and I have
homework! And I have a paper due in like two hours... yeah. I know all about
time. I know all about time issues, I know all about scheduling conflicts, but
I'm here, because I give a fuck, because this is my life, these are my residents,
I'm the RA of the gender inclusive living on Baker first floor (represent!), right?
[LAUGHS] All I want are answers.

[01:33:30] If I was in class right now, and a professor asked me a question, and I hadn't
done the reading, and I said "I don't know," or if I was in a group project and I
said "I can't speak for everyone"? You know what that would get me? A failing
grade. I should expect the same from you. I should expect the same level of
research and confidence that my professors expect from me.

[GROUP CLAPPING]

[01:34:02] JEAN: Yes?

Q&A 25

SIBELLE: Along the same lines... do you consider yourselves, in some capacity,
administrators?

JEAN: Yes.

SIBELLE: Yes? I find it very unprofessional that you would come so unprepared. That's
all. That's all.

[01:34:30] JEAN: I hear your feedback. Thank you.

Q&A 26

*TOBY: So... I did my research, as most people probably have, and I've read the
plumbing code, and from what I've observed living in multiple residence areas,
there are a lot of violations to that plumbing code, and the fact that changing
the sign came before those violations is very interesting to me. One of the
things in the code says that they shouldn't be able to see a person if you walk
by a stall,

[01:35:00] through the cracks or something like that. You can blatantly see people in a
lot of the restrooms that we have here on campus -- the only restrooms that
I've seen that have those dividers to prevent people from seeing in are in South

33
 College, in the newer buildings, so... the fact that this took precedence over
very obvious violations... I just wanted to address that.

[01:35:29] JEAN: Thank you. Yes?

Q&A 27

*QUINN: I just want to ask again, I think this is the third time this question has been
asked -- what does the university plan to do if the variance or the construction
doesn't-- isn't able to go through? Beyond appeals and... what is the plan?

JEAN: We actually plan to do the construction, I think that--

QUINN: Yeah, but, the construction for instance requires permits, so if you can't get
the permit... what is the university going to do about that?

[01:36:04] SIBELLE: I think what they're referring to is something concrete.

JULIE: So I know, so in addition to those things, something else that came up was also
working with state legislature to try to change the law in the first place... to
change the law in general. So we had talked about that in our last meeting.

QUINN: Yeah, but that's very long-term, we need an immediate change [INAUDIBLE]

[01:36:27] ROBIN: Like, what will happen by Christmas?

JEAN: So I believe by Christmas we will know about the variance, because we're
gonna submit that by the end of the month... we'll know about that, y'know,
come of that... um... We will have worked on the construction -- there's
people actively working on the design of that, and whether that's feasible in
Baker in that community. If that's not feasible, I would wanna have a
conversation of is there a location on campus where we have facilities that
can better meet the needs of this community.

[01:37:00] That can be part of the conversation as well. Um... we talked about that.

BRIDGE: The problem is that there aren't

Backup Plans?

JEAN: Right but there may be a place that, y'know, if we're not able to do the
bathroom in Baker for some reason -- which I think this is a place where we
have the most feasibility, again, because of that fixture ratio and the ability
to make those bathrooms ADA, we'll have to look at places to do that.

BRIDGE: Where? [EXTENDED PAUSE] Where?

JEAN: Where?

BRIDGE: Where is there a location on campus

[01:37:31] where we can be housed? Where our needs can be met? Where?

34
 JEAN: Today? We don't have a place... that's not apartments or suites... that has
numerous gender-inclusive stalls. That's why we wanna work on the
construction

BRIDGE: [CROSSTALK] So what is the plan?

SIBELLE: 'Cause we need to know by yesterday.

ROBIN: Yeah.

SIBELLE: We need to know by yesterday. No excuse.

[EXTENDED PAUSE]

[01:38:00] JEAN: The Sylvan suites have gender-inclusive bathrooms, that is an option, but I--

BRIDGE: --So you're gonna move all of us to Sylvan? What about the people who live in
Sylvan? Where are they gonna go?

JEAN: We have beds in Sylvan, we would do that if there--

BRIDGE: --You're going to move the entire first floor of Baker into Sylvan? That's your
plan?

JEAN: [CROSSTALK] Today?

[01:38:31] I was asked by December.

BRIDGE: Is this a plan? Is this a plan, if this doesn't go through, if we need to shut down
the floor... if that happens, is that the plan that's going to happen? Are we
supposed to move to Baker? -- Not Baker, uh, Sylvan? Is that the plan? Is that
what you're telling us? Are you going to be putting us in apartments? Are you
gonna be paying the rent for us in apartments until this problem gets fixed?
What is the plan?

[01:39:00] I believe that was the question. What is the plan?

JEAN: And I would want to involve all of you in that decisions if we can't make the--
if we can't do the construction on the bathrooms--

BRIDGE: --With all due respect, [INAUDIBLE DUE TO CROSSTALK]

SIBELLE: [CROSSTALK] What is the plan?

HELENA: Did you just say Sylvan? Did you just say Sylvan?

JEAN: I said Sylvan is a place where the bathrooms in those suites are gender-
inclusive. I didn't say that that would be an option, that everyone would--

HELENA: --You were suggesting it as an option.

JEAN: I said it is one option

SIBELLE: So it is an option now.

35
[01:39:30] BRIDGE: So... what's the plan?

SIBELLE: What is the plan?

[SIBELLE AND JEAN SPEAKING AT ONCE, BOTH INAUDIBLE]

JEAN: --this variance, we don't have a variance, I was asked December, right? If we
don't have the variance, we don't-- can't do the construction, or talk to the
community about the location of gender-inclusive... and one will bet-- what--
are-- are-- how we can best match our facilities for next year with the
community.

BRIDGE: Will the students be involved?

JEAN: Yes!

BRIDGE: Will we.

JEAN: Yes.

[01:40:01] BRIDGE: Will we be directly asked where's the place we can live?

JEAN: Yes.

BRIDGE: Will we be included in this conversation?

JEAN: Yes.

BRIDGE: So if we don't want to go to Sylvan... where do we go? [EXTENDED PAUSE]

Where're we gonna go?

PAT: I may-- I don't even know how to answer this in a satisfactory way. But
because we are going to explore options, we're not gonna-- we don't-- we can't
make a declaration on a building right now and say "yep, this is the one that
[INAUDIBLE] gonna take."

[01:40:31] I'm hearing a couple of different things, and this is what I find challenging in
this conversation, and I wanna own that this is [INAUDIBLE] for me, um...
you're asking us for a plan, and we're not giving you a satisfactory answer to
uh... you're also asking us to make a decision about where we're gonna place
people, or asking for the opportunity to have you have input if this fails, and
yet we're still hearing "where?" Like I'm just -- I'm not certain how we can
answer this question until

[01:41:03] BRIDGE: Going back to my previous statement, we are not hearing satisfactory answers.

PAT: I-- I understand that--

BRIDGE: --So... what I, and what I assume everybody in this room that we are gathered
here today for, is to get answers. The whole purpose of having this
conversation with you is for you to answer our questions, and you have not
been doing that, and I will not stand for it. I will hold you accountable until I
get answers.

36
[01:41:31] What is the plan? You cannot tell me that this bathroom committee has been
meeting for so long and it never even crossed anyone's mind at the possibility
of a backup plan in case things go wrong. You cannot look me in the eyes and
tell me that is what's happening. Or is that what you're doing? Are you telling
me that you don't know? Are you telling me that you have no answers for me?
For us?

[01:42:00] Is this going to be brought up at future meetings?

PAT: I believe so, yes.

BRIDGE: Has this even crossed anyone's mind, has it even been spoken at past
meetings?

PAT: About...?

BRIDGE: About plans, about backup plans.

SIBELLE: It's a yes or no.

PAT: So... the short answer is no, because-- let me further elaborate. The talk of
this variance and moving forward with this variance and this plan came up a
week ago.

[01:42:30] As a member of this committee, the first time that we announced this, that
we were moving forward with this things with the variance, was last week at
our meeting. And I'll tell you -- so... we weighed out our plan for what we
wanna do to try to make this variance happen, to make the other two pieces
that Jean described happen, in terms of crossing into state legislature and
going forward with changing the fixtures and those [INAUDIBLE]. Did we talk
about what happens if this fails?

[01:43:00] No, we talked about the plan that we had in place for moving forward with
this variance. Like that -- and... and I don't have a good answer for you, as to
what happens if it fails, because we just talked-- it was just brought to our
board this past week, about moving forward with this variance project. And
so, y'know, that's the answer I got. And I don't -- I'm sorry that I don't have a
good answer for you.

Lack of Student Involvement

BRIDGE: I have one last question before I give up,

[01:43:28] and that is why haven't students been involved from the beginning? Why aren't
there any students who are directly affected on this committee to make
change?

PAT: So I can speak to at least a couple of times in the two years that we've been
on this committee that students have come to the committee and we've
invited them to be regular members, and then there hasn't been any
attendance. And... I can speak to that, um, very commonly, like the second
meeting I attended, a large number of students came to visit our committee.
And met with us. And at that meeting,

37
[01:44:00] we told those students that they were welcome to join us on this committee
and come talk to us. And so... I never saw a student there. Now I know we're
at the point on trying to make that outreach that was not [INAUDIBLE]

BRIDGE: So you didn't publicize the meetings at all? You didn't publicize, y'know,
inviting students to join? Because as an RA that is something that's very
important, is community building and advertising for events that build
community

PAT: [CROSSTALK] Sure, you're absolutely right.

BRIDGE: and... you didn't do that?

[01:44:31] PAT: No.

BRIDGE: You did not do that. Okay. Good to know. Thank you.

PAT: We also did invite students that did attend our meeting to become regular
members of that committee, and students did not come. So

BRIDGE: Could that have anything to do with the fact that they are students...? And
have work to get done

PAT: [CROSSTALK] Could be

BRIDGE: And did you make any accommodations, perhaps, for those students, perhaps a
student-led committee? Perhaps a secondary meeting time? Did you do
anything to try to make it possible for students to be involved,

[01:45:02] other than just inviting those who attended?

PAT: No.

BRIDGE: Will you be doing that in the future? Now that the issue has been raised?

PAT: We can absolutely continue to invite students to be a part of the meetings.

BRIDGE: That is not the question that I asked you.

PAT: Yes, fine, if that's-- if that is-- if that is what you're asking, yes. We will invite
students to participate.

BRIDGE: What I'm asking is that they are publicized events, and that accommodations
are made so that students can attend and make their voices heard.

[01:45:32] ROBIN: For example, if they are planned in the middle of the day most students have
class. So there might be able to have a large attendance at one meeting,
because people can skip a class to go to something that's important, but they
cannot regularly skip class because we are here as students. And what we are
trying to do is make our living spaces something that makes it safe for us to be
students.

BRIDGE: We cannot advocate for ourselves.

38
[01:46:00] It is your job to advocate for us.

JEAN: May I ask a question related to this?

BRIDGE: Absolutely.

JEAN: Is it most helpful to get student involvement -- I imagine it is, but wanna hear
from you -- if there's a regularly set time that you know it's-- the meetings are
at Friday at... 3:30... I'm just picking a random time, it may not be this,

BRIDGE: [CROSSTALK] If there is--

JEAN: on these particular dates over the course of the semester.

BRIDGE: If there was a regular time, on a regular day,

[01:46:30] and it was highly publicized, and reminders-- email reminders were sent out to
students who have previously attended, perhaps an email list could be
beneficial, at previous meetings... As long as there is a set day, time, and
publicity about it, and reminders about it, I can almost guarantee you that you
will get more voices from our community.

JEAN: Great. We will do that.

Q&A 28

LUKE: I'd also like to ask, where did the idea of the variance come in a week ago?

[01:47:00] How did this just reach you? Because I've heard about this from student groups
for probably the entire time I've been here.

ROBIN: Yes.

LUKE: Probably the entire time I've been involved with the floor.

JUSTIN: We've known about doing that.

PAT: So there-- there were members of the committee that were working on moving
forward with the variance prior to our committee meeting. That was how it
was brought forward to us. So, again, I will go back to -- as a member of the
committee, that we were under the impression for the longest time that the
variance could not happen. So... y'know I-- and again,

[01:47:30] I understand that other-- that there were other conversations that were taking
place. I know that when it came down to bringing it forward to the group, that
there were members of the committee who talked about, um... like I think it
Dawn, Jean, and um... Marty, who were the folks that were involved with...
prior to the meeting that I talked about where I learned that it's coming
forward as a variance, were the ones that were doing the work before bringing
it to the committee. But now it's more... going forward with the variance
[INAUDIBLE].

39
[01:48:01] So... it wasn't like we decided in the committee meeting "oh hey let's get the
variance." From what I understood, it-- when we convened, there had been
other members of the committee that had been putting it into play prior to
our committee meeting.

LUKE: Right, but my question is if this is a section, if this is a bathroom, if this is

something that you have had a sole committee just to meet on this floor, for
at least a year and a half as you say, and now you're saying that you can get
the variance in be the end of the month, why wasn't it done a year and a half
ago?

[01:48:31] Why-- why did you say "okay, maybe the variance won't go through, so we
won't follow through with it at all, we'll give up on our students"? Why
is that like... the course of action-- who brought this variance here as, like, a
stable push? Who pushed for it? Who advocated for the students? Because it
doesn't sound like there's any named figure on the committee that actually...
brought it? Tried to do something?

[01:48:58] JEAN: And I would say -- to be honest, and again I didn't sit at meetings -- my
understanding was that... the-- what was-- what was-- the
committee understood was that the plumbing board and the local plumbing
inspector would not consider a variance on a multi-stall bathroom.

LUKE: And when I hear that, I say why didn't you try? Where was the application?
Where was-- like, there was not even a request for a variance when you knew
it was a possibility.

[01:49:28] And to me that speaks volumes about what the committee is focused on, what
the committee actually wants to do -- which doesn't seem to be much.

JEAN: Yeah. And I would say the committee was focused on -- as a first step, was all
the single-user restroom bathrooms across campus, to get the variance for
those. And so that was the initial focus to the-- the additional projects.
From my understanding. So-- the comm-- we've said, a number of times, the
committee... did not consider it. That's the answer.

[01:49:59] And now there are peop-- more people willing to take that forward at the
campus leadership level, and talk to the local inspector and take it forward.
And so the-- the nature of what the committee was given to consider was
changed in the last few weeks. Like-- that's what happened. Is that the-- the...
vice chancellor Gelaye, Shane Conklin who's over in auxiliary enterprises with
the physical plant had a conversation, said

[01:50:29] "we should really... is this possible?" And then Marty Smith talked to the local
inspector about the parameters, and that person said "I will take this forward,"
when they weren't willing to say that before.

LUKE: So you named-- I think the name you said was Shane from physical plant? And
they are not on the bathroom committee. So why... this-- this didn't come
from the bathroom committee, it didn't come from you at all, it was-- there
was no attempt. The physical plant brought it before the reslife people who
work for us, who designed our community,

40
[01:50:57] who figured out where Spectrum should be in terms of bathrooms and
everything... couldn't make it happen, but the physical plant could. So should
we be meeting with physical plant right now? Should we go straight to them,
should we talk to them instead of talking to this committee that -- frankly,
hasn't done anything. Besides take the sign down.

JEAN: What I'm-- what I'm saying is vice chancellor Gelaye, who is my supervisor,
who I work with really closely, we have been having conversations about this.
She said "Let me talk to Shane," they work across the hall from each other in
Whitmore, about if there are other possibilities.

[1:51:30] So they had that conversation at their level to see if there were other
possibilities after our conversations.

LUKE: Then why aren't they on the committee? If they're the ones making these
decisions, why aren't they on the committee, why don't they answer to us, why
aren't-- like, they seem like they're... getting things done, right?

JULIE: I-- I think you're asking a really good question, because the reality is that the
committee doesn't actually have contro-- so what was also explained to us,
and... I don't know... how valid this is,

[01:51:58] but that any variance request coming on behalf of the committee have to
come from... Marty Smith, who's--

JEAN: Who is on the committee.

JULIE: Right, who's part of the committee. But that Marty, specifically, has to be the
one to bring the variance request forward. So,

PAT: And Marty is a representative of the physical plant, so Shane Conklin

supervises as well.

JULIE: Right. So I think... I think you're right, it is confusing that we're sitting up here
and giving you answers on behalf of the committee that actually doesn't
have... like, the committee itself is not putting forward this-

[01:52:29] yes, Marty is a part of the committee, and part of the conversations in the
committee all along have been... "can we make this happen?" and Marty's the
person to do that, but you're correct that the committee is not, itself, putting
that variance forward.

LUKE: So... what of... the last thing I've wanted in connection to this, then, is, if
there are other people making these decisions for the committee that're not
on the committee, can we get their names as well? Can we get their contact
information, can we talk to them? If they seem to, like-- they seem like
they're invested in our wellbeing.

[01:53:00] Can we talk to them?

JEAN: Can I say--

Oprahs Summary of One Committee Meeting

41
 OPRAH: Can I offer a que-- like a... answer, sort of? Based on my one meeting that I
went to last week? Um... it feels as if the sentiment -- from the one meeting
that I went to last week -- was that the hope was that the sign would be
changed, and that no one would be mad. And that's what I picked up on from
the one meeting that I sat in. Is that this would happen,

[01:53:30] the students would continue to use the restroom however they see fit... based
on the UMass bathroom policy, which says you can use whatever bathroom.
But it-- that was the feeling that I picked up from the folks at the meeting who
actually spoke up and engaged in the conversation. So I think... when I hear
what you're saying, Luke, as far as the people who made choices... you had to
get mad.

[01:54:00] So the students had to get mad and you had to do something in order for them
to say "Oh, this was probably something we shouldn't have done, and now let's
move forward and see the other things we can do." Which is completely
inappropriate, and you should never have to fight when there are people who
can fight for you. And you shouldn't have to fight against the institution that
you're paying to go to and that you are, um... expected to go off into the
world and represent and all that good stuff,

[01:54:29] put on your resumes for the rest of your lives. People should be advocating for
you. So I think-- I wanna amplify what Pat said a few moments ago: you have
been failed. Like, people have failed you. And so... I don't think that can be
said enough. And I think there is no rationalizing this away, because you are
human people, and you deserved so much more than what was given to you.

[01:54:57] And I think that-- so, I hear what this-- from what Luke is saying, like... the
desire, that I picked up from that one meeting I sat in, was that people hoped
that you didn't get mad, and then when you did, they moved. So... so yeah.
And then there are a few people on the committee that are more vocal, and
more, um... doing things? Those are also the people who made the choice in
the first place! So it's one of those, like... now that you're angry they're gonna
flip and start trying to appease again.

[01:55:32] So like... that's one meeting that I sat in, and I observed folks, so I just want
to... insert that into the space. And I don't wanna take up anymore space.

[EXTENDED SILENCE]

Q&A 29

XAV: Um... regarding the invitation that you said you extended in the past for
students who had gone to meetings, how did you publicize that invitation,
outside of that first meeting that had students,

[01:55:59] how did you publicize the time the bathrooms committee was meeting?
Because despite being a student here, and having lived on Spectrum last year,
being a student here two years, I didn't know the bathroom committee existed
until very recently. I didn't know that students were invited to it until you
answered the first question? And I have no idea, like, still, y'know, if I knew it
existed that I could go.

[01:56:32] How could I find out where and when?

42
 PAT: So... I will go back to what I said before, that no we did not publicize it, um...
that the invitation that was extended was extended to a group of students
who came to the meeting -- I'm not actually entirely sure, uh... it's been two
years, um, to be honest when that-- when at first that large group-- it was a
large group of students came, uh... but I--

[01:56:59] but I do know that in that particular meeting we, uh... invited a student that
wanted to stay-- to continue to be a part of the committee and be a part of
that group to join, we did attempt to do outreach, at least from what I
understand, um... that there was outreach that was done with those people in
attendance to try and arrange something for those students to participate, but
as I mentioned before when I was asked point-blank, no, we did not put
something out publically, we did not send out an advertisement.

[01:57:30] And so it was very much an invitation to students who came to the committee,
uh... who learned of it via -- I do believe it was Julie that came forward, and
that's... again, I... I...once I was asked point-blank, I did say that no, we
haven't done anything public like advertising or anything like that.

XAV: So... since the-- you said that that meeting was like two years ago?

PAT: There were a couple of other instances, I cannot remember the dates. I'm
sorry, [INAUDIBLE].

[01:58:01] XAV: So... why, in the time since that meeting approximately two years ago, have
you not maybe considered doing some sort of outreach to get more students
involved? If you were noticing a lack of students?

JULIE: There's no good answer to that question, and

PAT: [CROSSTALK] and I can't answer that in any way,

JULIE: [CROSSTALK] I apologize.

PAT: [CROSSTALK] shape or form that's... that's... in any way satisfactory. There's
just no way. And I mean, I feel like... a, y'know, and even Oprah and I put it. I
do feel like,

[01:58:29] y'know, I will own my piece of it as a member of this committee, that there
were multiple places where we did not... we did not succeed as a committee
in student involvement, and an effort could've been done better.

XAV: Well you've had a committee around for two years, so I think that it's, um...
you have had time to reflect on ways that you maybe could be doing better,

[01:58:59] and I think it's pretty disappointing that you're not really even considering this
stuff until we ask you about it.

PAT: Point taken.

ROBIN: Also have you considered the fact that, if this meeting was two years ago as
you say, have you thought about the fact that a large portion of the students
probably graduated by now. There is a turnover of students every year, for--

43
 after two years, anybody who is not a freshman or a sophomore is gone from
two years ago.

[01:59:28] PAT: So-- again I'm gonna go back to, you're right, um... and-- yeah, I don't know
how many other times and ways I can say that you're right, I will also say that
it was not just this one time two years ago that we've had students approach
the committee that we've invited. I don't remember what dates they were, I
couldn't give you a-- uh, but I know that there has been more than one
occasion where we have had students who have come to the committee. Yes,
we should've done outreach. Yes, we should've-- we should've... y'know, and
again, could've should've would'ves isn't gonna make it better.

[02:00:00] And... you're right. We didn't reflect well on how to reach out to students.
You're right, it's our fault. You're right. Uh... but it wasn't this one and done,
and I do-- I, y'know, I will emphasize that... yes.

ROBIN: Well I'm expecting to see, as you said, and there a Facebook page, a website
put up, it's really easy to put together a website in Google forms.

PAT: [CROSSTALK] Sure!

ROBIN: Oh, by the way I can do it in ten minutes. So... put together a website, and
link it to a Facebook page -- which is also ridiculously easy to set up,

[02:00:31] and link it to Stonewall. So that we can all have access to when the schedules
are, what your minutes are, what your agenda is. So that-- it's not feasible for
any single one student to be able to go to every single meeting. We are
students. But it is feasible for us to be able to have public records of minutes,
agendas, what is done over scheduling, location,

[02:00:59] so that every meeting, somebody can go. It is not fair that you guys took
away-- put a gender on a bathroom... yeah. I'm just gonna stop now.

JEAN: And I-- I just wanna say again... I've committed to us doing that, that on the
Stonewall website we will put the dates and times of meetings. I know there's
only one scheduled at this point, but we'll get a schedule for the semester and
put them on the website,

[02:01:29] and put the... uh... those dates and times and locations, as well as updates
from those meetings as to what was discussed and progress made. So I've made
a commitment to that happening. So wanna reiterate that again. That we've
committed to that.

This is a Recurring Situation

JUSTIN: Um... hearing all of the disappointment and all of the pain from people who,
y'know in this room used to be my residents, are people that I love and care
about very much... I can't help but remember the events of last fall.

[02:02:01] And I can't help but think about the fact that the university has made multiple
PR pledges to marginalized students since the... since the institution of this
new government, which has been chipping away at the rights of trans
students, which has been deporting undocumented trans women, which has
been murdering black trans women, which has been just...

44
[02:02:30] slowly degrading the livelihood and the ability of trans citizens to pursue life
liberty and the pursuit of happiness, um... I really think that speaks volumes,
that... y'know, even a year ago this should've been urgent anyways, but I... I
don't know, I really don't feel like this is a priority at all. Especially if we have
people in meetings who are saying trans students aren't gonna be mad about
this,

[02:03:01] trans students are just gonna kind accept this, um... in an environment where
it's becoming increasingly hostile to be a trans person, y'know, in a country
where it's becoming increasingly criminal to be a trans person. To exist.
Y'know, to share space and breathe air. Just being who you are. Um... I don't--
I don't think I could leave this space without that being known,

[02:03:29] and that... kind of like, inaction that being happening, is more than just
inaction? I think it's complicity. It's complicitness.

Q&A 30

MAX: Going back off of Justin's [INAUDIBLE] statement, I'm actually a resident of
Spectrum and I have been since last semester. And as a queer trans person of
color, I feel like it should be noted that like...

[02:04:00] in this day and age my life expectancy is like 32 years, and like... honestly,
taking away my bathroom, like... like that's detrimental for everyone but that
also decreases-- it's like maladaptive for trans people as a whole, like I'm not
sure if y'all know, but trans folks actually have a higher risk of UTI -- urinary
tract infections -- because we have to hold our pee from not being able to go
to the bathroom, um... I also have just quick clarifying questions for y'all,
perhaps you don't know the answer, but y'know I wanna know for my own
amusement, um...

[02:04:30] PAT: [LAUGHS] Sorry.

MAX: How much is the malcompliance fee for the bathroom?

PAT: I don't--

MAX: For not changing the sign.

JEAN: I don't know the answer. But we can ask and get that back to you.

MAX: What is the-- I know you mentioned also that the-- making the bathroom more
accessible for both gender-nonconforming as well as disabled students would
like... decrease amenities, but I'm also wondering what is the estimated cost
for the accessible bathroom? Do you know the answer to that question?

JEAN: I do know that the, uh, the two single-user bathrooms in Baker, those
renovations, tho-- those cost around $70,000 apiece when we did that
renovation.

MAX: Yes. I'm wondering what [INAUDIBLE] for the multi-stall bathroom--

45
 JEAN: --Right. And I-- as-- so I don't know, 'cause they're working on the plans for
that. But if-- if one-- y'know, it will be... probably twice that. But, y'know,
we've committed, if we have those plans...

[02:05:30] to do the work. And...

MAX: Just like, sort of a follow-up to that, um... perhaps, like I know you said you
don't know the answer to the malcompliance fine versus the overall cost of the
multi-stall, but do you find one cost more maladap-- er, more, uh...
detrimental than the other?

JEAN: Do I find one possibil... I-- So I would...

[02:05:57] my preference would be to spend student money on making the renovation

project, because that makes long-term change in the facility. Um, a fine pays
a fine, and that's student money paying the fine. So... and all you've done
there is paying a fine, right? So I-- as I-- I'm not necessarily placing judgement,
but I think if I wanna-- if I'm gonna use student money from the residence halls
for that, I wanna do that towards doing-- making a renovation.

[02:06:29] ROBIN: You should be using student money for making a bathroom that students can
use. And... and if the short-term fix is to pay off the fine, which does not
sound like it's as much as doing a renovation project, then pay the fine. It's
still a bathroom that people can use.

JEAN: Mhm.

ROBIN: There are-- as they said earlier... there are other bathroom noncompliances
around campus that exist. Why is it that the signage of the one bathroom --
that is the bathroom that makes us feel safe,

[02:07:02] that is a bathroom that we can use... Why is that the one fine that they do not
want to pay? Oh, by the way, outside of these inspectors that you're getting so
that we can move forward on these long-term goals, like -- aside from that,
like... why would there be... even be inspections in bathrooms? It sounds like
this is something that would have been a non-issue if this signage wasn't
changed.

[02:07:29] JEAN: An-- and I think, y'know, hones-- I wanna go back to the committee, after this
conversation... and-- and ask again what the risk is of... having a gender-
inclusive sign on that multi-stall bathroom -- after we put in the variance that
needs to have the right sign. So I've said that, explained that, that when we go
to take the pictures we have to have the sign. But I will ask the question, what
is the risk to us, as an institution...

[02:07:59] once we've submitted a variance and we're moving forward with the
construction project of having a sign that is outside of the... the code? And
have the committee weigh that question. So we will do that at our next
meeting, is weigh that question, again, about the signage on this bathroom as
we move forward with this issue. Because that's... 'cause they also know, the
short-- y'know, variance is not gonna get us tomorrow, right?

[02:08:30] Construction project isn't gonna get us there tomorrow, on returning what
members of this community will need. So I wanna bring that back and weigh

46
 that question with the committee. So thank you for... sharing that. 'Cause-- I
think we do have to have... as a university, grapple with that question of what
that mean to do that, um... and what-- and what implications that may have
for making progress on this issue across the campus.

[02:09:01] And that's a political question, that you have to make some guesstimates at,
too, around... y'know, what're gonna be the-- the-- politically, the
implications of that for the going forward with this issue across the campus
around plumbing issues. So. [EXTENDED PAUSE] Yes?

Q&A 31

CHRIS: I've prepared more questions!

JEAN: [LAUGHS]

CHRIS: First, how is the committee -- the rest of the committee -- going to digest this
meeting? 'Cause it's been over two hours--

JEAN: Hours!

[02:09:30] CHRIS: --I can't imagine you're doing this in a single meeting.

JEAN: We will share the notes, I mean we'll have these typed up tomorrow, and share
the notes with folks, so that people can read through the notes, um... and...
we'll have to-- we have a meeting that's set up to look at changing facilities, so
I think we're gonna have to have another meeting to--

CHRIS: --Oh, so there's gonna be a meeting that's specifically about, like... what's
been--

JEAN: --I think that we very well may need to do that, to update the rest of the
committee--

PAT: [CROSSTALK] I don't-- I don't think--

[02:09:58] I don't think you-- can just... have this meeting and send out the notes and
think that's gonna do anything. So... I can't... uh... I can't imagine an agenda
that doesn't involve taking this feedback, reviewing this information, and
talking about, uh, y'know the steps that we can do, uh, some of the things
that-- commitments that Jean's made here in this meeting tonight, in terms
of... uh... publically providing that information to all of you, to when we're
meeting, what we're meeting about, and like... that-- that piece of it.

[02:10:30] I-- I-- I-- Yeah, I don't think that there's just gonna be, like, random just one
bullet on an agenda of four other things is possible. I don't, I... we're at two-
plus hours now, so.

CHRIS: Yeah, yeah, so...

PAT: So I-- I think what-- we will share it out ahead of time for the committee to
review, and digest, to then be able to, y'know, be ready for the meeting, for
our [INAUDIBLE DUE TO CROSSTALK]

47
 Audio Recording Confusion

[02:10:57] CHRIS: [CROSSTALK] Yeah that's excellent, thank you. Okay, um...

so will the recording that you have for this meeting, will that be made
publically, like on the Stonewall site or somewhere where anybody could
access it?

PAT: So the notes that Julie and I are taking?

CHRIS: No no, no, the recording.

PAT: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

JEAN: The notes. We're taking notes, we're not record--

OLLIE: They're not recording it [INAUDIBLE] audio. They don't care that much.

CHRIS: Oh...

ROBIN: Oh...

CHRIS: I thought you said you were earlier?

JEAN: We are recording.

CHRIS: No no no, I meant-- I meant--

JEAN: Oh

CHRIS: with a recording device...

JEAN: Oh, I--

CHRIS: Like, so--

JEAN: I misunderstood what you were asking

CHRIS: --so people could have like a... an exact transcript.

[02:11:30] JEAN: Got it.

Q&A 31 (Continued)

CHRIS: Oh...kay... um... Will there be more meetings like this in the future? Are those
already planned out?

[EXTENDED PAUSE]

JEAN: Um, when-- wha-- I would ask for feedback about that. Whe-- when would
be... at what point, if we're sharing our like-- when is an update of a meeting
with-- with the community helpful to-- to all of you? So...

48
 CHRIS: I'd say, like, at least one after the... oh gosh, I'm forgetting the thing that you
keep mentioning,

[02:12:00] that's gonna be done by the end of the month? After--

JEAN: The variance?

CHRIS: Yeah, like, the meeting for that would be excellent. Um... uh...

JEAN: So-- can I summarize-- oops, sorry to interrupt you.

CHRIS: Yeah.

JEAN: At points where we have -- so the variance request is done and submitted, and
we kinda can walk through what has been submitted in the variance request,
that might be a point at which a meeting would be helpful. When we have
plans, physical plans for a renovation of the bathroom, we'll wanna share that
with the... the community.

[02:12:30] We can have a meeting at that point. Are those-- those markers helpful,
around coming back to the community to-- to have meetings? Rather than at
times when we might not have kind of markers. Is that--

CHRIS: [CROSSTALK] Yeah

JEAN: when we have kind of progress on different things? To have meetings? Is that a
helpful way to... to proceed?

CHRIS: That sounds excellent, fantastic!

ROBIN: Yes!

JEAN: And if you haven't heard from us you can ask?

CHRIS: Uhhhh...

JEAN: No I mean-- if you were wonderi-- like, we do plan on putting the updates on
the Stonewall page, if you feel like-- that was said not eloquently...

[02:13:02] 'Cause I've been at work at 7:30.

CHRIS: It's okay

JEAN: But just saying, if there's something that's put up on the website as an update,
and we haven't had another meeting because we're like "well we're gonna do
this other thing and then have a meeting," and if you're all like "we wanna talk
about this thing," to ask for a meeting at that point. Not just 'cause randomly
you haven't heard from us, but because there's an update that you wanna talk
about.

CHRIS: Okay.

JEAN: Is what I was trying to say.

49
 CHRIS: Thinking about people who couldn't be here today, or, like, want the answers
to the questions that have been asked later,

[02:13:30] will... um... I-- I assume you've been writing down questions that you haven't
been able to answer,

JEAN: Yeah

CHRIS: will you... make those questions and... much more pre-meditated answers
publically?

JEAN: Yes, we've--

CHRIS: O-- okay

JEAN: As we've said we were gonna answer those questions on the website.

CHRIS: I think that's it, great. Thank you.

JEAN: Yeah, you're welcome. Was there another one over here? I can't remember

Q&A 32

[02:14:00] LUKE: On the topic of the bathroom in Baker, and how it impacts the community,
and, y'know, the maintenance and upkeep of maintaining that, I just-- to that
point, want to mention that many, many -- including the Spectrum bathroom,
bathrooms in Baker, in BCG -- are... almost dysfunctional, almost unsafe?
There are access hatches that have bricks in them that are wide open, there
are things with exposed insulation, that are absolutely not by health
standards. I don't need to be a plumber to know that these things are health
standards.

[02:14:30] There's a bathroom in Chadbourne that's missing a toilet -- like,

[GROUP LAUGHS]

LUKE: how do those things manage to escape your eyes, but a sign that says "all
gender" does not? As well as, on that point, on the point of the cost of
changing these things... When we got back for this semester in Baker, we
noticed that the whole basement was renovated. The whole basement was
redone. There were doors put in, there was specifically a section that was
blocked off for the purpose of-- that--

[02:15:02] I will mention other RAs from other clusters still don't have access to so they
can't get the resources -- um... but also there's, y'know, a tiny little
community space for us, there's a conference room -- that, again, we can't
access... there's a small community space where the pool tables moved that
involved knocking down walls, putting up more walls... so how-- how were
these costs justified for something that, honestly, like... gets in our way? We
can't move through the basement anymore. And yet... giving up access to
something like the bathroom is not a justified cost?

[02:15:30] JUSTIN: Yeah, it seems like they were put up so the employees don't have to see the
students that they work for.

50
 [EXTENDED PAUSE]

JEAN: Th-- the extent that my knowledge of that project is that's been in the
planning process for... a considerable period of time, um... for the RA office
there, that's been planned. And how the decision-- I mean...

[02:16:00] You're right, and that was prioritized financially over some other projects that
could've been... could've been done.

LUKE: So when you're-- you're going back to review, y'know, to get us information
about the cost of the renovation, information about the cost of this, um...
noncompliance fee, can you also give us information about the cost of the
renovations that already happened? Because to me, it seems non-transparent
to go ahead and take these things and say "it costs too much money to do
right, but we're also gonna spend money elsewhere and not tell you how much
it is."

[02:16:33] JEAN: Yeah... I-- I'm sure we can do that.

LUKE: Okay.

JEAN: And I want you to hear-- like... I wan-- I want you to hear the cost piece from-
- it's not too much, right? But it's... like... we've made a commitment to do
those bathrooms. But it's always-- it always is a matter of choice. Right? And
so... um... We have, in... we have...

[02:16:59] significant deferred maintenance issue in our residence halls... on a lot of

different issues. The bathrooms, windows... So every year, with a limited
amount of capital money that we have available, we're making those choices.
And we are engaged in a much more intentional planning process around that,
to really look at what some of the safety issues are, and the needs, and-- and
trying to do bathrooms annually so that we're increasing that. And so there's
always choices there 'cause there's not enough money to do all projects, and
there's money to do projects.

[02:17:30] And I've said-- y'know, we want to make sure we're... residing money for these
bathrooms, so that we can do that. Particularly if we don't get a variance.

LUKE: So-- some amount of money has to have gone into, y'know, the meeting time
that's involved, and then the physical replacement of the sign -- which is
probably, y'know, minor. But like, if we got an inspector into that bathroom
for that sign, why are we not getting inspectors everywhere else in the
cluster?

[02:17:57] Why are-- like... it would be transparent if you went through each of the
bathrooms, you said "these things aren't safe, this sign is wrong, there's a
toilet missing here," and then, y'know, like, calculated out what makes the
most sense to fix right now? But that's not the impression we get.

JEAN: Mhm.

51
 LUKE: It doesn't-- it doesn't seem like it was a calculated choice, based on what was
possible. It seems like... "okay, well this one's easier for us to just throw it as
something that we already know, like, offended us."

JEAN: Mhm. Yes?

Q&A 33

[02:18:31] XAV: In an answer to an earlier question, something was mentioned along the lines
of having considered the political implications of how the bathroom is signed?
And I'm wondering what exactly you mean by "political," because the reason
I'm here is I need to go to the bathroom and I'd like to be able to do so
comfortably, and not like... I wouldn't describe it as political.

JEAN: Yes. And-- I-- thank you. Um... What I meant by that was really thinking
about...

[02:19:00] As-- as the university is working on... improving on this very issue, around the
bathrooms, across campus, in all of our residence halls, all of our academic
buildings... Is there a political cost to being out of compliance in places that
we know we're out of compliance, and weighing that. Okay? So is there gonna
be an unwillingness, on the part of the plumbing board -- and I don't work with
the plumbing board directly, um --

[02:19:31] to not consider other requests if we're just-- if we're... making... we're just
doing... we are making decisions that are not in line with-- with the plumbing
code. That's what I just want the group to-- like-- we're gonna have to talk
about that, and what-- and weigh those issues. Around what-- if there are
implications for moving forward on continuing to work with this issue, it's a
pain for us.

XAV: So if you're concerned about the political implications of being out of line with
the plumbing code,

[02:20:01] then... why are there still so many other issues that other people brought up,
like the gaps in the stalls and missing toilets, that haven't been fixed yet?

JEAN: And I-- and I-- because of the focus of the work so far in the bathrooms, that's
really been about the variances on the signage for the single... user restrooms?
That-- that's where I believe is the case of why the signage has been important
in that conversation.

[02:20:30] Is that the way-- the ways we've been working with the plumbing board on this
issue has been around how we're signing bathrooms. Across the campus. That's
my understanding of why people've considered that part of the plumbing code
and moving this issue forward.

[EXTENDED PAUSE]

'Cause we are-- th-- the campus-- there hasn't been gone-- we haven't gone to
the plumbing board about... the gap in the-- in the stalls and things like that.

[02:21:00] To try to work on this issue.

52
 SIBELLE: If I may? What is the cost -- what is the monetary cost of a new "women's
room" sign? Such as the one that went up in Baker? What's the cost -- an
estimate? Of the top of your head?

[02:21:30] JEAN: We make signs in-house, so we're not sending them out to order.

SIBELLE: How much do you think the labor would cost? Labor, materials? How much do
you think?

JEAN: I-- I don't think it's a who-- I don't think it's a lot.

SIBELLE: Then think hard about that, and the fact that you chose that in your budget as
the item of importance here.

Q&A 34

[02:21:59] JEAN: Justin?

JUSTIN: So... I hear what's being said about, um... working with the plumbing board,
and concerns about the signage, and in that sense I'm pretty sure I have a firm
grip on this answer, seeing as I lived here for three years, um... Has an
inspector actually come through the building and ever brought up the sign to
anyone? Have you actually been experiencing, like, pressure from the
plumbing board around this? Or is this just something that you thought, like,
this could happen maybe?

[02:22:31] And then you decided, like... that was what needed to be prioritized?

JEAN: My understanding is that the inspector has not been on the first floor of Baker.

JUSTIN: Okay. Then why is that a concern to you?

[EXTENDED PAUSE]

Like, does the inspector inform res life and the housing departments when
they are coming to visit? Or do they just kinda like drop by...? Like, I'm trying
to understand--

[02:22:59] SIBELLE: [CROSSTALK] Has the inspector even recently visited?

JUSTIN: Yeah, like I'm trying to understand what... the... I'm trying to understand
where this, like...

SIBELLE: We're being haunted by an inspector that doesn't exist!

JEAN: I believe the inspector comes when there's projects, to check some of the
compliance around projects that happen and construction--

JUSTIN: Projects like changing the bathroom sign to women?

JEAN: Not the signage, construction projects is what I'm saying.

JUSTIN: Okay.

53
 SIBELLE: So--

[02:23:28] LUKE: So not only was there not construction to be inspected in the first place... it--
it sounds like maybe there would have been a reason for them to come if you
told them that you were changing the sign, but now... now that we know that
signage doesn't require inspection, only construction -- which isn't being done
because our bathrooms are still [INAUDIBLE]...

JUSTIN: I mean it sounds like y'all just kinda made an issue where there didn't need to
be one.

SIBELLE: Yeah...

ROBIN: So... the easiest solution is just changing the sign and dropping it. It's not like
there's an expected-- it sounds like, to me--

[02:23:58] SIBELLE: You can even make it in-house, if you so please!

JEAN: And I-- I-- What I said is I'm committed to bring that to our committee, to say
"are we willing to change... the sign?" [EXTENDED PAUSE] Okay? That-- I've
committed to having that conversation, like, not gonna commit to a decision
'cause it is not mine alone. Okay? Um... and I-- because I, y'know I hear you, I
hear what you're saying, okay?

[02:24:29] And that's the commitment I've made, is to bring that to that group to
consider.

Q&A 35 (Weird MA Laws)

ISABELLE: I have lived in Massachusetts for 21 years now -- I'm 21 years old! Um... I've
observed a lot of strange things about Massachusetts law, especially on this
UMass campus. And... there's a couple laws that I personally take offense
against, including this one. I'd like to show you some of the other ones I
believe are just as ridiculous.

[02:24:57] We have tomato-based clam chowder at this school -- that's illegal in

Massachusetts. Let's see... Snoring is prohibited unless all bedroom windows
are closed and securely locked.

JUSTIN: Well there goes my [INAUDIBLE]

SIBELLE: That is law!

ISABELLE: Well, um... Snoring is prohibited in Massachusetts, unless all bedroom windows
are closed and securely locked. I've walked by Baker and heard people snoring.

[GROUP LAUGHS]

JUSTIN: You heard me snoring.

SIBELLE: It's me

ISABELLE: Uh, also here's a really interesting one:

54
[02:25:30] it is illegal to go to bed without first having a full bath.

JONAH: We don't have bathtubs...

JEAN: Wow!

ISABELLE: That's illegal in Massachusetts!

SIBELLE: Mhm!

ISABELLE: So...

*TYLER: You got me!

SIBELLE: Not in compliance!

ISABELLE: I found this, like, twenty seconds of Googling. Um... also, by the way, no
gorillas allowed in the backseat of any card, um...

JEAN: No what?

ISABELLE: No gorilla.

JEAN: Gorilla! I couldn't hear if you said a grill or a gorilla.

ISABELLE: But all of them are just as ridiculous as why you thought that you had to follow
that law to change the sign!

[02:26:01] It's just as ridiculous that UMass says "fuck you I'm gonna make tomato-based
clam chowder" and insult the [INAUDIBLE] Massachusetts like that. So -- some
laws are so old and outdated that you just ignore them, and it's okay.

JUSTIN: I also just wanna clarify, um.. Y'know, after I brought up the thing that I did
and you said you were gonna go back to the committee on that? Uh, is this the
same committee that's made up of entirely cis people except Genny?

[02:26:31] To like, get everyone's opinion? Like all the cis people's and Genny's. On
whether, like, it's okay to have the sign or not?

JEAN: I don't know the identity of everyone on that committee. But I-- I would... Of
the people I know, yes, that's true.

JUSTIN: Okay. Good to know.

[EXTENDED SILENCE]

[02:27:00] [EXTENDED SILENCE]

Beginning Wrap-Up

JEAN: So--

OPRAH: I think just since this space is y'all's space, to be able to ask your questions and
get feedback, I don't feel, in my spirit,

55
[02:27:30] that it's appropriate to have them close out the meeting. I don't think it should
be up to them. So I would like to move it to y'all, I guess? Like if you have
anything else to say, or if you wanna talk-- if you wanna think for a moment
and then decide if you all-- there's a consensus together, if you all are ready to
close out the meeting? But I don't think it's appropriate for them to be able to
call that.

BRIDGE: I think that's an excellent point, Oprah! And I think that, in the spirit of team-
based learning,

[02:28:00] we should have about five, ten minutes

OPRAH: [CROSSTALK] [LAUGHS] I'm done

BRIDGE: to come to a consensus as a group?

OPRAH: Yes!

BRIDGE: Does that sound reasonable?

JEAN: Yep. Would you like us to step out, or stay?

JUSTIN: No, you can stay.

BRIDGE: Whatever makes you feel comfortable!

SIBELLE: Please do!

BRIDGE: We're all about making sure that you feel comfortable here.

Q&A 36

CHRIS: I have a question for you, before we go to that?

[02:28:30] Um... so you don't have an audio recording of this? [LAUGHS]

JEAN: That's correct. We have a written recording.

CHRIS: Of this meeting? Okay, um... how many people are on the committee? The
bathroom committee? An estimate is okay.

PAT: I think eight to ten.

CHRIS: Okay, so there's about eight to ten people on the committee -- okay, so
earlier, when everybody was here, there was -- I think over 50 people? So...
are you confident that you can represent 50 people that you don't regularly
meet with, and some of which you've never met before,

[02:29:02] and you're not confident in representing eight to ten people that you meet
with pretty regularly?

SIBELLE: Whose last names you can't remember?

56
 CHRIS: [CROSSTALK] You said earlier you couldn't represent the committee, but you're
confident enough to represent us?

JEAN: I-- I don't have a good answer for that.

PAT: So-- I mean--

JEAN: Sorry...

CHRIS: That makes me a little nervous.

SIBELLE: Mm.

PAT: So would you like to come too? I mean, I mean I'm saying that in all honesty,
like I'm not saying that sarcastically.

[02:29:29] CHRIS: I also am thinking about what's been said here, and I think that

PAT: [CROSSTALK] Sure!

CHRIS: it would've been better if there was a recording for the committee to have
listened to, to hear everybody's voices, because the whole point of this was to
make our voices heard -- how can they do that if they can't hear them?

PAT: I can appreciate that sentiment. I really can. Uh... We didn't-- we didn't
record it. Um... I... am hoping, and I know that's not really the right word that
you wanna hear, um... I feel like I've tried to do the best that I can,

[02:30:00] and Julie as well, um... to be accurate in representing the thoughts and the
questions and the feelings that have been brought forward today? Um... I--
y'know, all I can offer up is that I'm-- I'm gonna do my best to represent that
well. And... you have to trust--

CHRIS: As long as you're confident then that's fine. I guess.

PAT: Fair enough. And... and I get the sarcasm, and I get it. And I understand--

[02:30:30] CHRIS: I really don't mean to be, I'm sorry.

PAT: No, I-- I can appreciate your concern. Um... And you don't know me, you've
met me today.

CHRIS: That is correct, yeah.

PAT: So I get it. Um... but... I also am not coming from a place to misrepresent
what was spoken here at this meeting today, I'm not here... and I don't think
Julie or Jean or Julia are here, uh, coming from a place to misrepresent the
feelings and the concerns, and the needs...

[02:31:00] And really the desire that I've heard from the-- somewhere I did a headcount
at one point of about 80 people, um... So, y'know, I can-- all I can offer you is
that we're gonna do what we can. And try to be fair to all of you and
accurately represent you.

57
 CHRIS: I understand what the intention is, it's just that... personally, I feel limited by
what my context is? And I feel like maybe you don't feel limited by that
somehow? And...

[02:31:30] PAT: Okay.

CHRIS: It's a little concerning. I just wanted to say that.

PAT: Fair enough.

JEAN: And I-- and I would say... We can't represent every single... thing that was said
and the sentiment behind it, because people can't... us representing that, we
can't represent emotion as well, in the way that you all expressed it.

CHRIS: [CROSSTALK] That is something I was also concerned about, the presentation
of [INAUDIBLE]

JEAN: And I wanna acknowledge that, and say, y'know...

[02:32:00] we wanna come meet with the community as there are different markers, we
wanna be in conversation with all of you... um... And we will... do... our best
to do that. Recognizing that there are definitely limitations of trying to
represent two and a half hours of people's thoughts and feelings.

CHRIS: Okay.

Audio Recording Confusion (Part 2)

JULIE: I just would add, I-- I did my best, I know my chicken scratch is hard for others
to read -- I can read it fine, I have a learning disability that makes it hard for
me to transcribe everything as it comes out, but I-- I really did, like, my best
to focus and write, y'know, word-for-word where I could... and y'know use--

CHRIS: For-- for the future, I think it would be worthwhile, having an audio recording,
and being able to review it. To think about it more, to make sure that
everyone was clear, consistent -- transparency is great.

JEAN: So I-- does anyone in the room, that...

[02:33:00] and you don't have to answer this out loud, but if anyone in the room actually
recorded this conversation, that very well could've happened? Um... I don't--
you-- I... You can feel free to share that in a way that-- that is-- you don't
have to come forward right now and say that you recorded it, but if you did
we would take a copy of that recording so that we can have that represented.
I don't know if anyone did. So...

CHRIS: Okay. Thank you for the sentiment.

JEAN: Yeah. Yes?

[02:33:30] ISABELLE: Why was that on us?

SIBELLE: Mm.

58
 JEAN: It's not on you.

ROBIN: It clearly is... You're the one who told us that we were the ones that should've
thought to record it, when we thought this, as a university-held meeting you
would've done-- that something of this magnitude and this support should be
recorded.

SIBELLE: Had I not brought-- had a friend who brought that black recorder... none of
this would be recorded. And you know that. You know that so well. You can't
even try to pretend for a second!

[02:34:00] JEAN: I-- I didn't come in intending to voice record this meeting, no I didn't. I
intended to take notes of the meeting, so I... We didn't intend to do that.

SIBELLE: Then know for next time.

JEAN: 'Kay. [PAUSE] And I was just saying, if that so happens to exist, I heard the
sentiment that someone would want that

CHRIS: [CROSSTALK] I think that it's inadequate just to have notes.

JEAN: we'd share with the committee, so if someone has that available and you're
willing to share it... I would accept it.

[02:34:30] I don't want anyone to have to say "I recorded it," right? So... I wasn't putting it
on you, I was just saying, if so happens -- 'cause we've heard that that was
important -- I would accept that and share it with others. So...

Date and Time of Next Meeting?

*TEDDY: So I heard that we were invited to your next committee meeting? I would like
to know the date and time and the location of this committee, and I
encourage someone in your group to record this, so that we can all attend, if
you can.

[02:35:00] [EXTENDED SILENCE]

JEAN: So while we search our calendars, um... [EXTENDED PAUSE]

[02:35:30] there was a request for consensus...

JACKSON: I'm gonna say something while they search their calendars -- I have a tiny
holographic notebook that I have twenty pages of notes in, if anyone would
like to put down their name and an email address, that way there can be some
way to have student-to-student communication about this meeting, if people
want to debrief after this space in some sort of communal way they would
probably contact each other. And for further student organizing, this would be
an initial contact list.

[02:36:00] So.. I'm just gonna send this around, and if you'd like there's also a pen...

JUSTIN: If people wanna meet up after, I know me and Sibelle are grabbing dinner...
People are welcome to join us.

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 [ASSORTED QUIET CHATTER]

[02:36:30] [ASSORTED QUIET CHATTER]

[02:37:00] [ASSORTED QUIET CHATTER]

PAT: Um... the next meeting is [INAUDIBLE]

JEAN: That's the next meeting

PAT: So that's October [INAUDIBLE]...

[02:37:30] [ASSORTED QUIET CHATTER]

Next Meeting: Tour of Athletic Facilities, 10/10 @ Curry Hicks

JEAN: We have located the next time that the committee is meeting on our
calendars,

SIBELLE: Oh yeah?

JEAN: so that's... What's arranged for the next meeting, I'll let you all know that the
committee is gonna-- is working on... the... athletic facilities,

[02:38:00] and the changing rooms, so what's been arranged for the next meeting is a
tour of those facilities. So that's the next thing we have scheduled in our
calendar, not a sit-down group meeting, but a tour of the facilities. And we
are meeting on October 10th at 1:45 in the front of Curry Hicks.

CHRIS: Where's the location?

JEAN: Curry Hicks.

SIBELLE: Curry Hicks.

[02:38:29] OPRAH: I just-- I wanna highlight that it's not a meeting -- like Jean just said it's not a
meeting, it's a tour of facilities to see about switching up those facilities to
all-gender spaces, so--

JEAN: And I think it's really important for some students to join that, so we can hear
your perspectives as well. But I made that clear, it's not a meeting -- it's a
meeting of the group, but not in a meeting room. It's a tour. And we'd love to
have some students join us to give us feedback on those facilities.

BRIDGE: Will there be a meeting that we can attend? Because I do believe that was the
question, was when was there a meeting...

[02:39:00] JEAN: This is the one that-- this is what is scheduled,

BRIDGE: That's the next scheduled gathering. When is the next formal meeting?

JEAN: The next meeting is not yet scheduled. When we schedule that--

BRIDGE: Will we be notified when it is scheduled?

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 JEAN: [CROSSTALK] It will be put on the Stonewall website and we will notify the
Baker community.

Students Discuss Scheduling Next Meeting

JACKSON: Why don't we start that planning process now?

SIBELLE: Yeah

JACKSON: What time of the week, at an evening time, after classes are done... works for
people?

*CAM: Monday

JACKSON: Monday?

LUKE: It might make sense to do it, like, right after... y'know, the end of the month
when supposedly the variance goes through?

[ASSORTED CHATTER]

[02:29:32] JACKSON: So... October 2nd is a Monday. [PAUSE] Does that not work for...?

ROBIN: Monday works...

JACKSON: Monday doesn't work? What about Tuesday?

[ASSORTED CHATTER]

JACKSON: Tuesday has classes. Okay. Um...

SIBELLE: Wednesday?

ROBIN: Mondays are harder for me... [INAUDIBLE]

SIBELLE: How does Wednesday sound for folks? Good?

CAM: I can make it work, but...

SIBELLE: Mostly good for people?

[02:40:00] JACKSON: How about we meet on September 29th? Because that's the day that
everything should be submitted, that's the day everything should be ready. If
we meet in the evening,

JEAN: Sunday?

JACKSON: JACKSON: the plumbing office has closed, and it-- the variance will have been
submitted. So why not Friday the 29th at 7?

JEAN: JEAN: Oh, I'm looking at the wrong month, I'm sorry... [PAUSE] Um... just
wanna recognize that Yom Kippur starts at sundown that evening?

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 JACKSON: JACKSON: Okay.

JEAN: So there may be people who would not be able to attend the meeting on that
evening.

[02:40:32] JACKSON: Then why don't we move it a day forward, to the 28th, that way... um... that
doesn't change when the variance would be submitted, but-- theoretically all
the materials should be more or less ready by that day? I'm trying-- I don't
know if this is [INAUDIBLE] that like, I feel very strange delaying the meeting.

ROBIN: Yeah, no, that-- that sounds good. And also what that--

JACKSON: Does that... work?

[02:40:59] SIBELLE: Meeting at 7? Now where?

JEAN: Could we say-- did you say 7, or 7:30? I heard two--

HELENA: The 28th at 7.

JACKSON: 28th at 7? Here?

JEAN: Uh-- well I have to find out if this is available.

JACKSON: Okay.

SIBELLE: And if not, a space will be available? We'll make sure of it? Well, you can.

OLLIE: So we've confirmed, thursday September 27th at 7PM

JACKSON: 28th

OLLIE: Twenty-eighth. At 7PM, location to be determined?

[02:41:30] JACKSON: Yes. Hopefully CHC events hall.

Next Meeting: 9/28 @7PM

SIBELLE: And there will be communication about where it is.

BRIDGE: And publicity! From RAs

SIBELLE: Yes. And publicity aside from just... administration walking into the residence
halls and tacking things on the RAs boards that they work very hard for.

BRIDGE: Including boards that're not meant for community postings...

[02:42:00] [EXTENDED SILENCE / ASSORTED CHATTER]

Meeting Wrap-Up/Final Comments

SIBELLE: Okay!

JACKSON: Does anyone have any final comments that they would like to make?

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 BRIDGE: You look very nice.

JUSTIN: It's true.

JACKSON: So do you! I love your hat.

BRIDGE: Thank you! It's a good hat.

[02:42:29] LUKE: Um-- I guess I'd like to say that, like... I know this feels uncomfortable and I
know this must feel frustrating and, like, painful for everyone involved, but
like... We feel that way-- we've felt that way for the whole time, we've felt
this way as long as there's been debate on whether or not we should have a
bathroom. So... it's uncomfortable, but I think we're here and I think we're
ready to go through it again, if need be, again.

[02:43:02] CHRIS: Thank you for having this meeting.

JEAN: Thank you for all coming. I... This is... unfortunately some of our work is...
not as, like, "let's all do a team-builder and have fun together," sometimes it's
hard conversations, and that's the work that we do. So I appreciate all of you
engaging with us. I know we didn't have all the answers, um...

[02:43:31] and I agree with Oprah's sentiment that I don't wanna close the meeting. So I'd
ask someone else in the room, if you want to make the closing statement to
say goodnight for tonight and see you soon.

ROBIN: So, one: goodnight, and two: we expect you to actually have answers the next
time you come in, please do your-- please, like, do your homework, and have
the answers. We thought you guys were going to have answers at this meeting
and we really expect you to actually do your jobs at the next one.

[02:43:59] XAV: I just wanna say I feel like many of our questions should've been fairly
predictable, so that you weren't able to answer them is just sort of... another
level of disappointing, besides, like, not-- this is the place where we're
supposed to be able to come and get answers, and even for some of our
simpler, more obvious questions, we didn't necessarily get answers...

OLLIE: And to tag onto both of those statements, I at least expect you to be
a touch more organized the next time we have a meeting.

[02:44:29] Because frankly, not even knowing when your next meeting is
is extremely unprofessional.

SIBELLE: Especially when you're coming to this, and you ask all of us to be here with
you about something that we didn't want to have changed. You need to be
prepared. With first name and last name! Handouts, if you need. [LAUGHS]

[02:45:00] Maps! Powerpoints! Be ready! Excel sheets!

ROBIN: Also, we didn't come here for a history of the bathroom in Baker, and we didn't
come here for a summary of plumbing code. We've all read them, we
[INAUDIBLE DUE TO CROSSTALK]

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SIBELLE: [CROSSTALK] We know it all too well.

ROBIN: We know all that too well. We wanted answers for why you changed our
bathroom. Be prepared next time.

SIBELLE: Look forward to another spirited discussion!

[AUDIO END]

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