Rwne warnanu 10 i 12 13 14 1s 16 v7 18 19 20 24 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 149 MR. SPEREDELOZZI: NOTHING FURTHER. THE COURT: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. TROCHA: NO QUESTIONS. THE COURT: THANK YOU, MA'AM. MR. TROCHA: NOW, THE PEOPLE CALL ANDRES L. ANDRES L., CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, HAVING BEEN FIRST DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS. STAND. PLEASE STATE YOUR FIRST NAME. THE WITNESS: ANDRES. THE CLERK: SPELL YOUR FIRST NAME. THE WITNESS: A-N-D-R-E-S. THE CLERK: PLEASE STATE THE FIRST INITIAL OF YOUR LAST NAME. THE WITNESS: FIRST INITIAL? THE CLERK: YES. THE WITNESS: "L. THE CLERK: THANK YOU. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. TROCHA: Q. GOOD AFTERNOON, ANDRES. A. GOOD AFTERNOON. Q. COULD YOU SCOOT CLOSER TO THAT MICROPHONE SO WEwananunrwne 10 nn 12 13 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 pel 23 24 25 26 fay 28 150 COULD GET YOUR VOICE A LITTLE LOUDER. HOW OLD ARE YOU? 15. Q. | WITHOUT TELLING US EXACTLY THE ADDRESS OR THE TOWN, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN THE LAST YEAR? A. THE LAST YEAR? SHELLTOWN. Q. YOU'VE BEEN IN MEXICO? A. YEAH, FOR A BIT OF TIME. Q. YOU'VE BEEN LIVING DOWN THERE WITH YOUR GRANDFATHER? A. YES. Q. PRIOR TO GOING TO LIVE WITH YOUR GRANDFATHER, WHERE DID YOU LIVE? A. WHERE DID I LIVE? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. | WHAT PART OF TOWN IN SAN DIEGO DID YOU LIVE IN? A. SHELLTOWN. Q. WHERE IS SHELLTOWN, FOR PEOPLE WHO MAY NOT KNOW? ‘A. OCEAN VIEW PARK OR SOUTHCREST. THE COURT: CAN I HAVE YOU SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE? I JUST HAVE TO MAKE SURE EVERYBODY CAN HEAR You. MR. TROCHA: EXCUSE ME. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. IS IT IN SOUTHEAST SAN DIEGO? A. YES. Q. WERE YOU A MEMBER OF A GANG WHILE LIVING THERE? A. YES. Q. WHAT GANG?Co ananurune 10 i 12 nk 4 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 as 24 25 26 27 28 A Q. STREET? A Q. A. Qa LOPEZ? A Q. 151 38TH STREET. IS 38TH STREET ALSO CALLED THE SHELLTOWN 38TH YES. DO YOU STILL CONSIDER YOURSELF A MEMBER OF THAT No. WHEN DID YOU START HANGING OUT WITH 38TH STREET? ABOUT, LIKE, TWO YEARS NOW. ARE YOU AWARE OF SOMEBODY BY THE NAME OF MOISES YES. WERE YOU HANGING OUT WITH MEMBERS OF SHELLTOWN BEFORE MOISES LOPEZ WAS KILLED? A YES. HOW LONG BEFORE MOISES LOPEZ WAS KILLED? WHAT DO YOU MEAN "HOW LONG"? WAS IT A COUPLE OF WEEKS? COUPLE OF MONTHS? OVER ABOUT -- I DON'T REALLY REMEMBER. ARE YOU GOOD WITH DATES AND TIMES? SORT OF. WHEN WERE YOU BORN? 10-24-94. IS THAT IN OCTOBER? YEAH. DID YOU START HANGING OUT WITH OR -- WAS THAT BEFORE OR AFTER MOISES LOPEZ WAS KILLED?RwnNe 10 11 2 Bey 4 15 16 wv 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 152 AFTER. WERE YOU GOING TO SCHOOL AT THAT TIME? YES. HOW MUCH SCHOOLING HAVE YOU RECEIVED? HOW MUCH SCHOOL? WHAT GRADE DID YOU MAKE IT TO? 6TH GRADE. WHAT HAPPENED AFTER 6TH GRADE? I WENT IN JUVENILE HALL. WHAT DID YOU GO INTO JUVENILE HALL FOR? FOR JUST GETTING IN TROUBLE IN THE STREETS. WAS ONE OF THOSE THINGS GRAFFITI? YES. WHAT KIND OF GRAFFITI WERE YOU DOING? SHELLTOWN 38TH. WHAT WERE YOU WRITING? 38TH STREET STALKER. STALKER? YEAH. WHAT'S THE RELEVANCE OF STALKER? JUST PEOPLE STALK PEOPLE. IS THAT WHAT THEY CALL YOU? YES. IS THAT A NICKNAME OF YOURSELF? YES. WHY WOULD YOU WRITE STALKER? BECAUSE THEY GAVE ME THAT NAME. WHO GAVE YOU THAT NAME?weanaunrwune 10 a 2 2B 4 15 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 NAME. 153 SPEEDY. WHO IS SPEEDY? THE GUY RIGHT THERE SITTING NEXT TO WHAT'S HIS IS HE IN THE COURT TODAY? YES. WHAT IS HE WEARING TODAY? BLACK SUIT. IS HE TO MY RIGHT, YOUR LEFT? TO YOUR RIGHT. MR. TROCHA: YOUR HONOR, MAY THE RECORD REFLECT THE WITNESS HAS IDENTIFIED THE DEFENDANT? THE COURT: YES. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. A. MEMBERS? AL Q. WHY DID SPEEDY GIVE YOU THE NAME STALKER? I DON'T KNOW. IS THIS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS ONCE YOU JOIN A YES. HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT JOINING SHELLTOWN 38TH BECAUSE I HAVE FAMILY. WHAT'S THAT? I HAVE FAMILY FROM SHELLTOWN. YOU HAVE OTHER MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY THAT ARE YES. DO YOU CONSIDER NON-BLOOD RELATIVES FAMILY IF THEYwo anaunrune 10 re 2 2B 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2s 26 oe 28 154 ARE A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET? ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. SURE. DO YOU HAVE A BROTHER? A. YES. Q. WAS YOUR BROTHER A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN? AL NO. Q. PEOPLE WHO ARE IN SHELLTOWN, DO YOU KNOW SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF RAUL AGUILAR? A. YES. Q. WOULD YOU CONSIDER HIM TO BE A MEMBER OF YOUR A. NO. Q. WOULD HE BE A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN? A. WHAT? Q. IS HE A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET? A. YES. Q. | JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE IS A GANG MEMBER, YOU DON'T SAY THEY ARE FAMILY AS WELL? A. YES. Q. HOW DID YOU JOIN 38TH STREET? A. BY KICKING IT WITH THEM, JUST HAVING FUN WITH THEM, WELL, JUST MEETING THEM. Q. YOU SAID, "KICKING IT WITH THEM"? A. YEAH. Q. WHAT DOES "KICKING IT" MEAN? A. LIKE, WELL, LIKE HAVING FUN WITH THEM, LIKE JUST STICK TOGETHER, LIKE, IN THE PARK OR IN THE STREETS.warn anurwne ely che eb = 14 15 16 7 2 19 20 21 22 23 24 2s 26 27 28 Q. NERVOUS? 155 HANGING OUT? YEAH. WHERE WOULD YOU HANG OUT IN SHELLTOWN? OCEAN VIEW OR SOUTHCREST. THOSE ARE PARKS? YES. DID YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH SOME SORT OF INITIATION AN OFFICIAL MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN? No. WERE YOU JUMPED IN? No. YOU WERE NOT JUMPED IN? WELL, I WAS JUMPED IN. WHEN WERE YOU JUMPED IN, APPROXIMATELY? 3-8 DAY. WHAT IS 3-8 DAY? WHEN PEOPLE FROM SHELLTOWN KICK IT TOGETHER. IS THAT MARCH 8TH? YES. I'M GOING TO STOP FOR A SECOND. ARE YOU COMFORTABLE HERE TODAY? SORT OF. WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? WELL, KIND OF, JUST KIND OF NERVOUS. WHY ARE YOU NERVOUS? I DON'T KNOW, JUST NERVOUS. ARE THERE PEOPLE IN THIS COURTROOM MAKING YOUCo earaunune 10 1 12 B 14 45 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 156 A. NO. Q. IS IT THE SITUATION THAT'S MAKING YOU NERVOUS? A. YES. Q. YOU TESTIFIED PREVIOUSLY IN THIS CASE AT PRELIMINARY EXAMINATION. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. WERE YOU NERVOUS AT THAT TIME? A. YEAH, SORT OF. Q. ARE YOU MORE NERVOUS NOW? A. ALITTLE BIT. Q. IS IT BECAUSE OF THESE PEOPLE TO MY LEFT, OR WHAT IS IT EXACTLY? I DON'T KNOW. JUST FEEL NERVOUS BEING IN THE ROOM, THE COURT. Q. IS IT BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU'RE ABOUT TO TESTIFY TO? A. NO. Q. GETTING BACK INTO GETTING JUMPED IN ON 3-8 DAY, EXPLAIN TO THE JURY WHAT JUMPING IN MEANS OR WHAT IT ENTAILS. A. WELL -- MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION. HE'S NOT QUALIFIED TO GIVE HIS OPINION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: OTHER GANG MEMBERS FROM SHELLTOWN THAT, WELL, INTO THE GANG, THEY WILL HURT YOU. THE COURT: OKAY. YOU HAVE TO SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE SO THEY CAN HEAR YOU. THE WITNESS: THE MEMBERS OF SHELLTOWN THAT THEYCo anaueru ne 10 i 12 1B 14 ph 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 157 JUMP YOU IN, WELL, THEY SOCK YOU. THEY KICK YOU OR WHATEVER. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. THEY BEAT YOU UP? AL YES. Q. WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF THAT? A. WELL, JUST TO GET YOUR NAME. Q. TO GET YOUR NAME SUCH AS STALKER? A. YES. Q. HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO GET JUMPED IN IN ORDER TO JOIN SHELLTOWN? A. WELL -- WELL, I GOT JUMPED IN TWO TIMES. Q. WHY IS THAT? A. BECAUSE OTHER GANG MEMBERS OF SHELLTOWN, THEY DON'T KNOW -- THEY DON'T KNOW YOU, AND THEY WILL JUMP YOU IN. Q. WHEN YOU WERE JUMPED IN, HOW OLD WERE YOU? A. I WAS -~ WELL, THE FIRST TIME I WAS 13. Q. AND THIS WAS ON 3-8 DAY? A. NO. IT WAS ANOTHER DAY IN THE PARK. Q. WHAT PARK? A. SOUTHCREST. Q. WHO JUMPED YOU IN AT THAT INITIATION? ‘A. SNOOPS AND DOWNER. Q. SNOOPS AND DOWNER ARE MEMBERS OF SHELLTOWN? A. YES. Q. IN TERMS OF WHO DOES THE JUMPING IN, WOULD YOU BE ALLOWED TO JUMP IN ANOTHER MEMBER?Car aurwune 10 11 12 13 4 15 16 7 18 ao 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 A. HAVE MORE Q. 158 Yes. WHY IS THAT? BECAUSE YOU ALREADY A GANG MEMBER FROM SHELLTOWN. YOU FAMILIAR WITH SOMETHING CALLED AN 0.G.? YES. WHAT IS AN 0.G.? THE OLDER GANGSTER. WHAT IS AN 0.G.'S PLACE IN THE GANG? 0.6.? ARE THEY YOUR EQUAL OR IN CHARGE OF YOU? WHAT ARE WELL, THEY JUST OLDER PEOPLE OR OLDER GUYS THAT RESPECT. IN TERMS OF HAVING MORE RESPECT, WOULD THEY HAVE MORE RESPECT THAN SOMEONE WHO JUST RECENTLY GOT JUMPED IN? A. Q. YES. WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE TO DO TO GAIN MORE RESPECT AFTER GETTING JUMPED IN? A. Q. A SHOOT OR KILL SOMEBODY. COMMIT CRIMES OF VIOLENCE? YES. WHAT ABOUT STEALING? THAT TOO. WHAT ABOUT TAGGING? YEAH. HOW DOES THAT AFFECT YOU GETTING RESPECT? WELL, JUST -- WHAT WAS THAT QUESTION AGAIN? SURE. HOW DOES ROBBING SOMEONE OR ATTACKINGCo arnanurune 10 cen 13 14 as 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 a SOMEBODY TURN INTO RESPECT? A, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO, WELL, GANGBANG ON THEM, SEE IF HE'S NOT FROM ANOTHER HOOD OR HE'S NOT ANOTHER PERSON THAT IS NOT FROM THERE OR SOMEBODY YOU HATE OR SOMETHING. Q. I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THIS. A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM ARE NOT. LET'S TAKE THIS A STEP AT A TIME. LET'S SAY YOU'RE IN OCEAN VIEW PARK. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH OCEAN VIEW PARK. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. WHAT IF YOU SEE SOMEBODY WALKING BY OCEAN VIEW PARK THAT YOU THINK IS NOT FROM SHELLTOWN? A. WELL, YOU HAVE TO TELL THEM WHERE'S HE FROM. Q. YOU HAVE TO WALK UP TO PERSON AND ASK THEM WHERE THEY ARE FROM? A. YES. Q. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? MAT HOOD ARE YOU FROM? WHERE YOU A. WELL, LIKE, GANGBANG? WHAT HOOD DID YOU GANGBANG?" Q. WHEN YOU ASK SOMEBODY WHERE THEY'RE FROM, ARE YOU TRYING TO FIND OUT THEIR ADDRESS? A. NO, JUST TRY TO FIND OUT WHAT PART OF SAN DIEGO THEY ARE FROM OR THEY LIVE. Q. WHAT DOES THE RESPONSE INDICATE TO YOU? LET'S SAY YOU ASK SOMEBODY WHERE THEY'RE FROM AND THEY TELL YOU THEY'RE FROM LOGAN, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU AS A SHELLTOWN GANG MEMBER? A. THAT YOU DON'T GOT RESPECT FOR ME. YOU HAVE TOCO arnnureune 10 uw 12 13 4 1s 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 160 FIGHT THEM OR SHOOT THEM OR KILL THEM. Q. | WHY IS THAT? A. BECAUSE YOU DON'T GOT RESPECT FOR HIM. YOU DON'T HAVE LOVE FOR HIM. HE'S YOUR RIVAL. Q. WHAT IF YOU WALK UP TO A PERSON, ASK THEM WHERE THEY ARE FROM, AND THEY SAY, “NOWHERE.” WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? NOTHING. WE JUST LET THEM -- YOU LET THEM KNOW WHERE YOU'RE FROM, AND JUST TELL THEM IT IS COOL. THAT'S IT. IN TERMS OF SAYING WHERE YOU FROM, THE PERSON SAYS, "NOWHERE." WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IN RESPONSE? A. IT IS ALL RIGHT. Q. WOULD YOU SAY I'M FROM SHELLTOWN? A. WELL, YEAH. Q. WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU IF YOU WERE TO SAY, "I AM FROM SHELLTOWN"? A. WELL, THAT I'M FROM SHELLTOWN. I'M JUMPED IN OR I'M OFFICIAL. Q. DOES IT MEAN YOU ARE JUST A PERSON WHO LIVES IN THE CITY OF SHELLTOWN? A. NO. Q. DOES IT MEAN YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE SHELLTOWN STREET GANG? A. YES. Q. YOU SAID A WORD, THAT IT MEANS YOU'RE "OFFICIAL." CORRECT? A. YES.Rwne warn anu 10 i 12 13 14 1s 16 W 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 161 Q. WHAT DOES BEING OFFICIAL MEAN? A. WELL, THAT YOU ARE REALLY FROM SHELLTOWN, THAT YOU'RE JUMPED IN. WELL, YOU GOT RESPECT FROM OTHER GANG MEMBERS FROM SHELLTOWN. Q. IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN JUMPED IN, ARE YOU OFFICIAL? A. NO. Q. WHAT ARE YOU? A. YOU'RE JUST A -- WELL, YOU'RE JUST LIKE A NORMAL PERSON, YOU ARE JUST BAGGING IT UP. Q. IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN JUMPED IN AND YOU'RE NOT OFFICIAL, ARE YOU FROM SHELLTOWN? A. NO. Q. YOU HAVE TO BE JUMPED IN TO BE FROM SHELLTOWN? A. YES. Q. YOU TOLD US EARLIER THAT SPEEDY GAVE YOU THE NAME STALKER. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. IN ORDER TO GET THAT NAME, DID SPEEDY HAVE TO JUMP YOU IN? A. NO. Q. DID SPEEDY PARTICIPATE IN A JUMPING IN OF YOU? A. OF MINE? Q. CORRECT. A. WELL, YES. Q. WAS HE THE ONLY ONE THAT JUMPED YOU IN AT THAT AL NO. Q. WHO WAS WITH HIM AT THE TIME YOU WERE JUMPED IN BYRwne woananu 10 che 12 13 14 eb! 16 wv 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ‘SPEEDY? A Q. ANIMAL? A Q. A Q. A a. A Q. A Q. A Q. 162 ANT, CARTOON, STONEY. AND JUST SO THE JURY HEARS IT, ANT LIKE THE LIKE, ANT, LIKE A BUG ANT. THE LITTLE BUG? YEAH. STONEY, S-T-O-N-E-Y? YEAH. AND CARTOON? CARTOON LIKE BUGS BUNNY? YEAH, THE CARTOON. WAS THERE ANYBODY ELSE? THERE WAS A COUPLE MORE. WERE YOU THE ONLY ONE GETTING JUMPED IN, OR WERE OTHER PEOPLE BEING JUMPED IN WITH YOU? A Q. A Q RASCAL. SPANKY, AL Q. A Q THERE WAS OTHER PEOPLE. WHO WERE THE OTHER PEOPLE, IF YOU RECALL? CHUBBS, HEFTY, BLANCO, SPANKY, AND THAT'S IT. AND FOR THE RECORD, IS IT SPANKY LIKE THE LITTLE I'M PROBABLY DATING MYSELF AS WELL. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE LITTLE RASCALS: LIKE SPANK WITH A "Y"? YES. BLANCO, LIKE SPANISH FOR WHITE? YES. CHUBBS AS IN CHUBBY?Rwne warn anu 10 i 2 3B 4 15 16 v7 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 =o 5 Oo > 6 FE Q. OFFICIAL? AL Q. 163 YEAH. AND HEFTY LIKE THE GARBAGE BAG HEFTY? NO. HEFTY LIKE KIND OF CHUBBY, TOO. AT THAT POINT DID THE FIVE OF YOU BECOME OFFICIAL? YES. THAT WAS ON 3-8 DAY? YES. AT THIS POINT DID YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF TO BE WELL, YES. AT THIS POINT DID YOU BEGIN TAGGING, OR WERE YOU TAGGING PRIOR TO BECOMING OFFICIAL? A. Q. A Q. A Q. A SHELLTOWN, I BECAME TAGGING. EXCUSE ME? I BECAME TAGGING. THAT'S WHEN YOU STARTED TAGGING? YES. WHY WEREN'T YOU TAGGING BEFORE BECOMING OFFICIAL? BECAUSE PEOPLE -- OTHER GANG MEMBERS FROM THEY WILL TELL ME THAT, WELL, WE DON'T KNOW YOU; OR WHY YOU WRITING ON THE WALL. YOU'RE NOT FROM THE HOOD OR YOU'RE NOT FROM THE GANG. Q WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE WHO WOULD TAG IN SHELLTOWN WHO WERE NOT FROM THE GANG? A Q. A Qa. THEY WILL JUST GET WHUPPED OR SOCKED OR SOMETHING. WOULD THEY GET BEAT UP? YEAH. WOULD IT BE A SIGN OF DISRESPECT?Co oarnuew ne 10 2 13 14 1s 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 164 A. YES. Q. HAS ANYBODY EVER CROSSED OUT ANY OF YOUR TAGS? A. WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT RIGHT NOW. I DON'T KNOW. Q. | WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO CROSS OUT A PERSON'S TAG? A. IT IS LIKE MURDER, LIKE CROSSING OUT ANOTHER HOOD, OR IT IS LIKE MURDER, LIKE, YOU DON'T LIKE THEM. YOU DON'T RESPECT. YOU DON'T GOT RESPECT FOR THEM. Q. LET'S USE ANOTHER EXAMPLE. SAY YOU WERE IN OCEAN VIEW PARK. YOU SAW SOMEBODY FROM LOGAN HEIGHTS TAGGED LOGAN AND THEIR NAME "FLACO." WOULD YOU LET THAT STAND? A. NO. Q. WHAT WOULD YoU DO? A. I WOULD JUST, JUST BEAT HIM UP OR WHATEVER I HAD. Q. WOULD THAT TAG STAY IN OCEAN VIEW PARK VERY LONG? A. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. IT WOULD BE CROSSED OUT. Q. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLY PAINTED OVER? A. MAYBE. MAYBE NOT. Q. IF YOU WERE TO SEE A LOGAN HEIGHTS TAG WITHIN SHELLTOWN WITHIN OCEAN VIEW PARK, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN IN TERMS OF ITS PRESENCE? IS IT A CHALLENGE? IS IT JUST DISRESPECTFUL? IS IT AN INSULT? WHAT WOULD IT BE TAKEN AS IN THE EYES OF THE SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET GANG MEMBER? A. DISRESPECT TO ANOTHER HOOD. Q. | WHAT WOULD BE THE EXPECTED RESPONSE FROM ‘SHELLTOWN?: ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. SURE.Co arnranunune 10 n 12 13 14 1s = 7 18 19 20 rae 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 165 WOULD SHELLTOWN BE, “OH, LET'S JUST GET SOME PAINT, PRETEND THIS NEVER HAPPENED." OR WOULD THERE BE SOME SORT OF RESPONSE DIRECTED TOWARD LOGAN? A. YES. Q. WHAT WOULD THAT RESPONSE CONSIST OF? A. LIKE, LET'S GO TO THEIR HOOD AND GO WRITE OR TRY TO SHOOT OR ENDANGER SOMEBODY. Q. IT COULD RANGE FROM, "WE'RE GOING TO GO OVER AND WRITE UP OUR TAGS" ALL OF THE WAY TO KILLING? A. YES. Q. WAS IT IMPORTANT FOR YOU WHEN YOU WERE A SHELLTOWN GANG MEMBER TO HAVE YOUR NAME DRAWN UP ALL OVER TOWN? A. WELL, NOT REALLY. Q. WHY DID YOU DO IT THEN? A. BECAUSE I JUST WANT TO -- I JUST WANTED, I DON'T KNOW, JUST PEOPLE TO SEE MY WRITING, MY TAGGINGS. Q. | WHY DID YOU WANT PEOPLE TO SEE YOUR WRITING, YOUR TAGGINGS, AND YOUR NAME? A. I DON'T KNOW. JUST TO LET THEM KNOW THAT I WAS NEW. THEY DION'T KNOW ME, JUST LIKE THAT. Q. PUBLICITY? A. YEAH. Q. I ASSUME EVERY TIME YOU WROTE "STALKER" YOU WOULD WRITE SOMETHING DEALING WITH 38TH STREET? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN "DEALING"? Q. WHEN YOU WENT OUT TAGGING. SAY, THE TIME YOU GOT CAUGHT AT OCEAN VIEW PARK, WERE YOU JUST WRITING "STALKER"? A. YES.Rwne warnanu 10 1 12 13 14 1s 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 . 24 25 26 27 28 166 Q. WERE YOU ALSO WRITING ANYTHING TO DEAL WITH 38TH STREET? A. WELL, SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET. Q. SO WHEN YOU'RE OUT THERE TAGGING AT THE TIME, HOW WOULD YOU GO ABOUT WRITING OUT SOMETHING THAT WOULD REPRESENT SHELLTOWN? WOULD IT JUST BE THE WORD SHELLTOWN, OR WERE THERE OTHER THINGS YOU WOULD THROW UP? A. IT WOULD BE VARRIO SHELLTOWN 38TH. Q. — VARRIO WITH A "V"? A. YES. Q. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? A. A HOOD. Q. AND WOULD IT BE VARRIO SHELLTOWN, THE WHOLE WORD? A. YES. Q. IS THERE ANY ABBREVIATION FOR IT THAT YOU WERE AWARE OF? ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? WHAT ABOUT "ST"? A. OH, YEAH "ST." Q. WHAT ABOUT 387 A. THAT TOO. Q. YOU EVER HEARD ABOUT X-X-X-V-I-I-I? A. YES. Q. WHAT IS THAT? A. 38TH STREET. Q. WOULD YOU WRITE THAT? A. YES. Q. WHAT ELSE WOULD YOU WRITE THAT WOULD REPRESENToor aunnewne 10 ah 12 B 4 15 16 v7 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 167 SHELLTOWN? AL CONCHA PUEBLO. CAN YOU SPELL THAT OUT? C-O-N-C-H-A, P-U-E-B-L-0. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? SHELLTOWN IN SPANISH. WHAT ABOUT OTHER VARIATIONS SUCH AS CONCHERO? THAT TOO. DID YOU EVER DRAW THE SEA SHELL? I TRIED IT BUT I COULDN'T. YOU WEREN'T GOOD AT IT? No. WHAT ABOUT OTHER VARIATIONS ON THE NUMERAL? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? WE TALKED ABOUT THE ROMAN NUMERALS WITH THE X'S AND V'S AND I'S, WE TALKED ABOUT THE 3 AND 8. IS THERE SOMETHING ELSE I'M MISSING? 1920. WHAT IS 19207 “st.” DOES THAT REPRESENT LETTERS OF THE ALPHABET? YES. WHAT ABOUT OTHER VARIATIONS THAT I'M MISSING? 3-v-3, WHAT IS 3-V-3? 38TH STREET. HOW IS 3-V-3 38TH STREET? BECAUSE IT IS 3-V-3, IT IS LIKE X-V-I-I-I.Caer nunrwune 10 che 12 13 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 re) 24 25 26 27 28 168 Q. SO IT IS A COMBINATION OF ROMAN NUMERALS AND REGULAR NUMBERS? A. YES. Q. WHEN YOU WOULD WRITE UP YOUR NAMES, WOULD YOU WRITE UP ANYBODY ELSE'S? A. WHEN THEY WERE WITH ME. Q. WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. WHY WOULD YOU WRITE UP OTHER PEOPLE'S NAMES OF PEOPLE WHO WERE WITH YOU? A. BECAUSE THEY WOULD BE WITH ME. SO THEY CAN KNOW THAT WE WERE ALL INVOLVED IN TAGGING. WE WERE ALL TOGETHER. Q. WOULD YOU EVER WRITE UP PEOPLE'S NAMES WHO WERE NOT WITH You? A. SOMETIMES. Q. WHY ONLY SOMETIMES? A. BECAUSE -- WELL, BECAUSE I WAS BY MYSELF OR WITH OTHERS. I JUST USED TO TAG MY NAME BECAUSE IT MAY BE LONGER. Q. DID YOU LIKE TAGGING YOUR NAME? AL YES. Q. DID YOU EVER USE ANY OTHER NAMES OTHER THAN "STALKER"? A. YES. Q. | WHAT OTHER NAME DID YOU USE? A. "YOUNGSTER." Q. WHAT'S THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT? A. BECAUSE I WAS YOUNG.Carn nurwune 10 che ad a 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 = 24 25 26 27 28 169 Q. TS "YOUNGSTER" A COMMON TERM USED WITHIN ‘SHELLTOWN? ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, "COMMON"? Q. SURE. YOU WERE AROUND 13 AT THE TIME. DID OTHER PEOPLE JUST REFER TO YOU, GENERALLY, AS A YOUNGSTER? A. YES. Q. DID YOU EVER HEAR OTHER PEOPLE REFERRED TO AS YOUNGSTERS? ‘A. YEAH, OTHER YOUNG GANG MEMBERS. Q. WERE THEY AROUND YOUR AGE? A, WELL, AT THAT TIME, NO. Q. HOW OLD WERE THEY AT THAT TIME? A. THEY WERE LIKE 16, 17. Q. DOES "YOUNGSTER" NECESSARILY HAVE TO DEAL WITH HOW OLD YOU ARE VERSUS HOW LONG YOU'VE BEEN IN THE GANG? A. WELL, IT JUST DEPENDS. THEY PUT THAT TO ME BECAUSE I WAS YOUNG. I WAS SMALL. Q. WHO WERE SOME OF THE PEOPLE YOU WOULD HANG OUT WITH WHILE YOU WERE IN SHELLTOWN ON A REGULAR BASIS? A. WELL -~ Q. AND YOU CAN USE THEIR NICKNAMES . A. WELL, I USED TO KICK IT WITH KNUCKLES, SCRAPPY, MADNESS. Q. WHAT WAS THE FIRST ONE? A. IT WAS SCRAPPY AND KNUCKLES. Q. KNUCKLES. YOU EVER HANG OUT WITH A GUY NAMED TOKES?wCarnaueune 10 chy 2 2B 14 15 16 ps 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 170 YES. . DOES HE ALSO GO BY TOKER? YES. A, Q, A, Q. YOU GUYS AT CAMP BARRETT TOGETHER? A. YES. Q |. DID YOU ALSO GO TAGGING WITH HIM FROM TIME TO A. SOMETIMES. Q. WERE ONE OF THE PLACES YOU TAGGED IN OCEAN VIEW A. CAN YOU REPEAT IT? Q. SURE. YOU'VE TAGGED ALL OVER SHELLTOWN. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. WAS ONE OF THOSE PLACES OCEAN VIEW PARK? A. YES. Q. NOW, THIS IS AN AERIAL PHOTO. BUT I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU WHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 1. YOU SEE THAT BEHIND YOU. IS THAT OCEAN VIEW PARK? A. YES. IS THAT A "YES"? A. YES. Q. I'M GOING TO POINT TO AN AREA ON THIS PARTICULAR PHOTO THAT RUNS THE LENGTH -- YOU HAVE TO TURN AROUND AND WATCH -- RUNS THE LENGTH OF THIS DIRT ALLEY. YOU SEE WHERE I TRACED? A. YES. Q. THERE ARE FENCES THAT RUN ALONG THAT ALLEY.eo anaunrune 10 1 12 13 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 os 24 25 26 27 28 i CORRECT? AL Ves: Q. DO PEOPLE TAG THOSE FENCES? A. YES. Q. DID YOU EVER TAG THOSE FENCES? A. A COUPLE OF TIMES. Q. THERE ARE PICNIC TABLES WITHIN THE PARK. YOU SEE TWO OF THEM HERE ABOVE THE BATHROOMS. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. THERE IS ANOTHER SET OF PICNIC TABLES DOWN IN THIS AREA CLOSER TO OCEAN VIEW. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. DID YOU EVER TAG THOSE PICNIC TABLES? A. YES. Q. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A PAD OF PAPER. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A BLACK MARKER. I'M GOING TO ASK YOU TO TAG STALKER, TO SHOW THE JURY HOW IT WOULD LOOK IF YOU WERE TO TAG SOMETHING. THE COURT: WE NEED THAT MARKED? MR. TROCHA: WE'LL GET IT MARKED. WE'RE PREMARKED UP TO 149. SO THIS WOULD BE 150. (PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 150, DRAWING, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) BY MR. TROCHA: Q. IS THAT THE ONLY WAY YOU WOULD TAG STALKER, OR WOULD YOU DO VARIATIONS UPON IT?Carnaoueune 10 a 2 13 a7 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2s 26 27 28 172 A. WELL, LIKE THIS. JUST LIKE THAT. MR, TROCHA: OKAY. WE'LL GET A TAG, AN EVIDENCE TAG, I SHOULD SAY. THE COURT: DOES EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND CAMP BARRETT IS A JUVENILE DETENTION FACILITY? MR. TROCHA: MAY I PUBLICIZE THIS, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: SURE. ANY OBJECTION? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: CAN I LOOK AT IT? MR. TROCHA: YEAH. YOU CAN PUT THE MARKER DOWN. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I JUST WANT TO SHOW MY CLIENT. THE COURT: GO AHEAD. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. MR. [L.] -- I'M SORRY. ANDRES, WHY IS THE "L" CROSSED OUT? A. FOR LOGAN HEIGHTS. Q. BUT “L" IS IN THE NAME STALKER? A. BUT IT IS LOGAN HEIGHTS. JUST CROSS IT OUT. Q. WHY? A. BECAUSE LOGAN HEIGHTS, WELL, THEY DON'T GOT RESPECT. THEY ARE RIVALS. THE COURT: AGAIN, SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE. HE SAID THE LAST ANSWER WAS -- LET ME GO BACK TWO. "QUESTION: BUT “L" IS IN THE NAME STALKER? “ANSWER: BUT IT IS LOGAN HEIGHTS. JUST CROSS IT our. “QUESTION: WHY?Carn aurwune 10 cei 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 = 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 173 “ANSWER: BECAUSE LOGAN HEIGHTS, WELL, THEY DON'T GOT RESPECT, THEY ARE RIVALS.” BY MR. TROCHA: Q. DO YOU HAVE TO CROSS OUT "L” IN EVERYTHING? A. WELL, NO. Q. WHY DID YOU CROSS IT OUT, THOUGH, IN YOUR TAG? A. BECAUSE IT IS IN THE NAME. IT IS A RIVAL. IT IS JUST THE LETTER "L" IS JUST A RIVAL, THE RIVAL GANG. L" STANDS FOR LOGAN? A. YES. Q. YOUR LAST NAME STARTS WITH AN “L." CORRECT? A. YES. Q. WHEN YOU SIGN YOUR NAME ON THINGS, YOUR REAL NAME, DO YOU CROSS OUT THE "L" IN THAT SITUATION? A. NO. Q. WHY NOT? A. BECAUSE IT IS A SIGNATURE. IT IS NOT GRAFFITI. YOU'RE NOT ON THE STREETS. Q. IN TERMS OF USING YOUR STREET NAME AND IN CONTEXT OF USING IT WITH SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET, THAT'S WHEN THE "L" MUST BE CROSSED OUT? A. YES. Q. IF YOU WERE TO WRITE OUT SHELLTOWN ALL TOGETHER ON ONE OF YOUR TAGS, WOULD THE "L" BE CROSSED OUT ALL OF THE TIME, SOME OF THE TIME, OR NONE OF THE TIME? A. NOT IF YOU'RE SHELLTOWN. IF YOU WERE ANOTHER NETGHBORHOOD . Q. I'M ASKING YOU THIS. IF YOU WERE TO GO TAGGING,Carn anunrune 10 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 77 24 25 26 -. 28 174 AND YOU'RE WRITING "STALKER" ALL OVER OCEAN VIEW PARK, AND ALONG WITH "STALKER" YOU'RE WRITING SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET SPELLED COMPLETELY OUT. WOULD YOU CROSS OUT THE L'S IN ‘SHELLTOWN? A. WELL, SOMETIMES. Q. IT IS NOT A HARD-AND-FAST RULE THAT YOU HAVE TO DO IT EVERY SINGLE TIME? A. NO. Q. WHERE DID YOU LEARN ALL OF THIS INFORMATION? ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN "LEARN"? Q. I MEAN, AFTER YOU WERE JUMPED IN, DID THEY GIVE YOU A BOOK OF RULES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT? A. NO. Q. HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT LEARNING THESE THINGS ABOUT HAVING TO CROSS OUT L'S, 3-V-3, AND ALL SORTS OF THESE OTHER VARIATIONS? A. WELL, SINCE I WAS LITTLE, I HAD, LIKE, NOT MY UNCLE. HE'S JUST LIKE AN UNCLE-IN-LAW, AND HE WAS FROM SHELLTOWN. AND I USED TO SEE ALL OF THESE TAGGINGS. SINCE I WAS LITTLE, I USED TO KNOW A LOT OF PEOPLE FROM SHELLTOWN. THAT'S HOW I LEARNED, I SEE THEM IN THE SIDEWALKS OR IN THE BOOKS. Q. DID YOU ASK YOUR UNCLE QUESTIONS ON THESE THINGS LIKE I'M ASKING YOu? AL NO. Q. IS THIS JUST KNOWLEDGE YOU PICKED UP IN THE STREETS? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN “KNOWLEDGE”?eCanaunrwne 10 a ab 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 7 24 25 26 27 28 Q. 17s WELL, KNOWLEDGE OF THE FACT THAT IF YOU WRITE “STALKER,” YOU MIGHT HAVE TO CROSS OUT THE "L" TO SHOW DISRESPECT TO LOGAN? A. Q. ALONG? A. Q. YES. WOULD THAT BE SOMETHING YOU PICK UP AS YOU GO WHAT DO YOU MEAN " TICK UP’ DID SOMEBODY SIT YOU DOWN AND TELL YOU THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO SPELL OUT "STALKER," YOU BETTER CROSS OUT THE "L"? A. Q. No. HOW DID YOU GO ABOUT LEARNING SOMETHING LIKE THAT? JUST FROM SEEING OTHER WRITINGS, OTHER -- WHAT OTHER LETTERS WOULD BE CROSSED OUT? THE "N.” WHy "N"? NATIONAL CITY. IS THAT OLD TOWN NATIONAL CITY? YES. IS THAT A RIVAL GANG? YES. WHERE IS OLD TOWN NATIONAL CITY'S TURF IN RELATION TO SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET TURF? A Qa. A a RIGHT NEXT TO SHELLTOWN. IS IT SOUTH OF DIVISION OR NATIONAL AVENUE? YEAH, HIGHLAND. HIGHLAND? WHERE IS LOGAN IN RELATION TO SHELLTOWN?oor nuawne 10 i 12 2B 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 176 A. WELL, 35TH AND JUST RIGHT NEXT TO IT, FIVE BLOCKS, YOU KNOW, LIKE, YEAH, TWO BLOCKS, FIVE BLOCKS. Q. WHAT OTHER RIVALS DID YOU HAVE? A. ENCANTO. Q. — ENCANTO? A. YEAH. Q. IS THAT ALSO KNOWN AS VARRIO ENCANTO OR V-E-L? A. YEAH. Q. WHERE WAS VARRIO ENCANTO IN RELATION TO SHELLTOWN? A. SOUTHEAST NEXT TO EUCLID AND 62ND STREET. Q. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE SOUTHEAST LOCOS? A. YES. Q. WERE THEY RIVALS OF SHELLTOWN? A. WELL, THAT I KNOW, SOME OF THEM. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF THERE WAS AN ON-GOING RIVALRY BETWEEN SOUTHEAST LOCOS AND SHELLTOWN? A. NO. Q. YOU EVER HEARD OF 0-E-K? A. YES. Q. WHO IS 0-E-K? A. ONE EVIL CLOWN. Q. ARE THEY RIVALS OF SHELLTOWN? A. THEY WERE. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT RIGHT NOW. Q. | WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY WERE? A. WELL, WHEN I WAS OUT, THEY WERE RIVALS. WE DIDN'T LIKE EACH OTHER. Q. IF YOU SAW SOMETHING THAT O-E-K PUT UP, WOULD YOU CROSS IT OUT?eCarnaunrwne 10 1 12 13 44 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 177 A. YES. Q. YOU MENTIONED O-E-K BEING ONE EVIL CLOWN? A. ONE EVIL CLOWN. Q. DO THEY ALSO GO BY ONE EVIL KINGDOM? A. I DON'T KNOW. I HEARD ONE EVIL CLOWN. Q. WHAT IS A CLOWN WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOUTHEAST SAN DIEGO STREET GANGS? A. THEY JUST CALL THEMSELVES CLOWNS BECAUSE SOUTHEAST. THEY WERE JUST -- THAT'S WHAT THEY DISRESPECT. THAT'S HOW THEY CALL THEM, DISRESPECTING THEM. Q. YOU EVER HEARD OF "RATS"? A. YES. Q. WHAT ARE "RATS" IN RELATION TO SOUTHEAST SAN DIEGO? A. RATS? RATS. SNITCH. PUNK. JUST A LITTLE -- JUST LIKE LAME OR SOMEBODY THAT DOESN'T HAVE, WELL, POWER OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Q. IS IT A WORD YOU WOULD USE TO DISRESPECT A RIVAL? A. OH, YES. Q. IS IT A WORD YOU WOULD USE TO DISRESPECT A PERSON YOU JUST DIDN'T LIKE? A. YES. Q. YOU ALSO USE THE TERM SNITCH. IS IT SYNONYMOUS FOR SNITCH? A. SNITCH, YES. Q. WHAT IS SNITCHING IN TERMS OF THE SOUTHEAST SAN DIEGO GANG LIFE? ‘A. SNITCHING. WHAT DO YOU MEAN?awne woarvnanuw 10 che 12 13 14 as 16 7 18 7 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 178 Q. HOW DO YOU SNITCH? ‘A. HOW DO YOU SNITCH? LIKE TELLING PEOPLE, TELLING THE SAN DIEGO COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT OR TELLING SOMEBODY, POLICE, SHERIFF. Q. IS SNITCHING TALKING TO THE POLICE? A. YES. Q. IS SNITCHING TALKING TO SOMEBODY WHO IS NOT THE POLICE? A. YES. Q. WHAT WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE OF SNITCHING IF YOU ARE NOT TALKING TO A POLICE OFFICER? A. YOU'RE TELLING ANOTHER PERSON, YEAH, HE DID IT. HE DID THIS. HE DID THAT. Q. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT CRIMES? A. WELL, YES. Q. IN TERMS OF IF YOU SAW SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, ROB OCEAN VIEW LIQUOR AND YOU KNOW WHO DID IT AND YOU TOLD SOMEBODY ALL OF THAT INFORMATION, WOULD YOU BE SNITCHING? A. YES. Q. WHY? A. BECAUSE YOU'RE TELLING. YOU'RE TELLING -- WHOEVER YOU'RE TELLING. YOU'RE TELLING WHO DID IT, THAT YOU SAW WHAT HE DID. MR. TROCHA: YOUR HONOR, ARE WE GOING UNTIL 4:00 OR 4:30? THE COURT: I WAS WAITING FOR YOU TO TRANSITION TO ANOTHER AREA. JUST KEEP GOING. I TRY TO FIND A NATURAL BREAK IN THE TRIAL.Cary nunewne 10 ey 2 2B 4 15 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 179 MR. TROCHA: WE CAN BREAK HERE. I'M GOING TO CONTINUE WITH THE SAME LINE OF QUESTIONING TOMORROW. THE COURT: WHY DON'T WE RUN THAT OUT. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. SNITCHING IN TERMS OF TALKING TO THE POLICE. WHAT IS THE RESULT, OR EXPECTED RESULT, IF SOMEONE FOUND OUT THAT A FELLOW GANG MEMBER TALKED TO THE POLICE? A. I DIDN'T GET IT. CAN YOU REPEAT IT? Q. SURE. YOU'RE A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET. YOU FIND OUT THAT SOMEBODY TOLD ON YOU OR TALKED TO THE POLICE ABOUT ANOTHER MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN'S CRIMES. WOULD THERE BE ANY PUNISHMENT FOR DOING THAT? A. YES. Q. WHAT PUNISHMENT WOULD YOU EXPECT? A. GETTING SHANKED OR KILLED OR SHOT. Q. DOES IT DEPEND ON HOW SERTOUS THE CRIME INVOLVED IS THAT IS THE TOPIC OF THE SNITCHING? A. YES. Q. WHAT IF IT IS TAGGING? SOMEBODY SNITCHED ON YOU FOR TAGGING. A. NOT REALLY, NO. Q. WHAT IF SOMEBODY SNITCHED ON YOU FOR BREAKING INTO SOMEBODY'S HOUSE? A. NO. Q. WHAT COULD HAPPEN? A. NOTHING. IT JUST DEPENDS ON WHERE YOU WENT AND WHAT HOUSE. Q. WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IS WHAT IF SOMEBODYCarnaunrwne 10 lu 12 13 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 ar 22 23 24 25, 26 27 28 180 SNITCHED ON ANOTHER MEMBER TO THE POLICE AND TOLD THE POLICE THAT THEY SAW THAT PERSON BREAKING INTO SOMEONE'S HOUSE? A. Q. A Q. JUST, I DON'T KNOW. WOULD YOU EXPECT HARM TO COME TO THEM? No. WHAT ABOUT YOUR SITUATION IN WHICH YOU'VE TALKED TO THE POLICE ABOUT A HOMICIDE YOU WITNESSED. A. THAT -- Q. A MORE -~ Q. WELL, YEAH, BECAUSE IT IS, WELL, SOMETHING BIG ‘A MURDER, WELL. I DIDN'T GET THE LAST PART? IT IS JUST LIKE, IT IS HARDER, WELL, IT IS JUST I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY IT. WELL, IN TERMS OF HAVE YOU EVER HEARD THE TERM “SNITCHES GETS STITCHES"? A Q. WIND UP YES. AND THE OTHER TERM "SNITCHES GETS STITCHES AND IN DITCHES"? No. NEVER HEARD THAT ONE? JUST THE FIRST ONE? YES. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN THAT SNITCHES GET STITCHES? WELL, A SNITCH GETS SHANKED OR KILLED. WHAT IS SHANKING? WELL, JUST GRABBING A KNIFE AND HURTING SOMEONE GETTING STABBED? YEAH. IS IT A GOOD THING TO BE A SNITCH?Carn anunrwne 10 che 12 13 14 ph 16 cee 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 181 A. WELL, NO. Q. IS IT SOMETHING PEOPLE IN THE GANG AVOID DOING? A. YES. Q. IS IT ONE OF THE PARTS OF THE GANG THAT GANG ACTIVITY STAYS WITHIN THE GANG? A. YES. Q. IN TERMS OF THIS CASE, YOU WENT OUTSIDE THE GANG AND TALKED ABOUT GANG ACTIVITY. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. DO YOU FEAR FOR YOUR SAFETY BECAUSE OF THAT? A. YES. Q. WOULD YOU GO TO OCEAN VIEW PARK TODAY? AL NO. Q. WHY NOT? A. BECAUSE I MIGHT GET SHOT OR STABBED. Q. WOULD THAT BE BECAUSE OF THE PROSPECTIVE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE TODAY AND TOMORROW AS WELL AS THE PRIOR TESTIMONY AND PRIOR STATEMENTS TO POLICE? A. YES. MR. TROCHA: YOUR HONOR, I THINK WE CAN STOP THERE. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, REMEMBER THE ADMONISHMENT. DON'T FORM OR EXPRESS ANY OPINION ABOUT THIS CASE. WE WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW, AGAIN, A LITTLE BEFORE NINE O'CLOCK. I APOLOGIZE AGAIN FOR THE LATE START TODAY. NOW THAT WE ARE ROLLING INTO IT, I REALLY WANT TO KEEP GOING. THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING TO BE WORKING ON FRIDAY. I'LL SEE YOU TOMORROW. REMEMBER THE ADMONISHMENT.eC ananurune 10 1 12 7 14 7 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 = 24 25 26 27 28 182 THE BAILIFF: JUST LEAVE YOUR NOTEPADS ON YOUR CHAIRS. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD OUTSIDE THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY. BOTH COUNSEL AND DEFENDANT ARE PRESENT) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE OUTSIDE THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY. MR. [L.] STEPPED OUTSIDE. GENTLEMEN, WE'LL SEE YOU BEFORE 9:00. MR. DOMINGUEZ, HAVE YOURSELF A NICE EVENING. WE WILL SEE YOU ALL TOMORROW. (PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED AT 4:05 P.M.) --000--COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO) ) ss. STATE OF CALIFORNIA) PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA vs. FLORENCIO JOSE DOMINGUEZ scp225579 I, LINDA UHURU, RPR, CSR NO. 12768, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO, DO HEREBY CERTIFY: THAT I REPORTED IN MACHINE SHORTHAND THE PROCEEDINGS HAD IN THE WITHIN CASE AND THAT THE FOREGOING TRANSCRIPT, PAGES 1 THROUGH 182, INCLUSIVE, IS A FULL, TRUE, AND CORRECT TRANSCRIPT OF THE SAID PROCEEDINGS. DATED AT SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, THIS 7TH DAY OF JANUARY, 2011. Airdd_Vhinw— LINDA UHURU, RPR, CSR NO. 12768 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTERee IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO CENTRAL DIVISION DEPARTMENT NO. 37 BEFORE HON. JEFFREY F. FRASER, JUDGE 2 PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF 2 CALIFORNIA, ; PLAINTIFF, 2 ) CASE NO. SCD225579 vs. ] 2 FLORENCIO JOSE DOMINGUEZ, 3 DEFENDANT. ) ) REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT es OCTOBER 7, 2010 APPEARANCES: FOR THE PEOPLE: BONNIE M. DUMANIS DISTRICT ATTORNEY BY: KRISTIAN TROCHA DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY 330 WEST BROADWAY SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 92101 FOR THE DEFENDANT: LAW OFFICES OF MATTHEW J. SPEREDELOZZI BY: MATTHEW J. SPEREDELOZZI 5755 OBERLIN DRIVE, SUITE 301 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 92121. LINDA UHURU, RPR, CSR. NO. 12768 OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA COPINDEX PEOPLE VS. DOMINGUEZ OCTOBER 7, 2010 CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES: PAGE ANDRES L. - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. TROCHA 4 CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI . REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. TROCHA . 4INDEX OF EXHIBITS PEOPLE VS. DOMINGUEZ ocToser 7, 2010 EXHIBITS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION: CD INTERVIEW OF ANDRES L. 1/28/10 ...... CD PHONE INTERVIEW OF ANDRES L. . TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW OF ANDRES L. ... nmon 1/28/10 G BUTCHER PAPER WITH LIST OF NAMES ..... 5 PHOTOGRAPH OF PARK AT NIGHT .. PAGE 48 48 49 TRANSCRIPT OF PHONE INTERVIEW OF ANDRES L. 49 127 175 24 16oer nueune 10 un 2 py 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA; THURSDAY, OCTOBER 7, 2010; 8:58 P 000-- (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD OUTSIDE THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY. BOTH COUNSEL AND DEFENDANT ARE PRESENT) THE COURT: WHY DON'T WE GO ON RECORD ON THE DOMINGUEZ MATTER. I'VE GOT MR, DOMINGUEZ, BOTH COUNSEL. COUNSEL, WHO IS THE WITNESS HERE THAT YOU WANT ORDERED BACK? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: HIS NAME IS CARLOS ALVARO. THE COURT: MR. ALVARO, GOOD MORNING. YOUR MOTHER IS HERE. CORRECT? YOU'RE 177 CARLOS ALVARO: YES, SIR. THE COURT: YOU'RE, MRS. ALVARO? MRS. ALVARO: YES, SIR. THE COURT: I WANT TO MAKE SURE WE ALL UNDERSTAND THIS. THIS IS A SUBPOENA TO COURT, BUT A SUBPOENA IS NOT AN INVITATION TO A PARTY TO BE DECLINED OR NOT ACCEPTED. SO I'M GOING TO ORDER HIM BACK AT A CERTAIN TIME. IS HE IN SCHOOL? MRS. ALVARO: HE GOES TO SCHOOL. THE COURT: I WANT TO MINIMIZE ANY INTRUSION ON THAT THE BEST WE CAN. MRS. ALVARO: WE CAN WORK THAT OUT. I JUST WANT TO STATE THAT CARLOS DOESN'T KNOW THESE PEOPLE. HE WASN'T IN CUSTODY AT THE TIME. HE'S BEEN IN LA MESA WITH HIS. FATHER GOING TO GROSSMONT HIGH. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY KEEP CALLING CARLOS. THE COURT: I DON'T KNOW. IT IS UP TO THE LAWYERSwo anaunune 10 chy 12 13 14 1s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ou. MRS. ALVARO: OKAY. THE COURT: COUNSEL, WHAT'S A GOOD DATE?~ RwNe eoanau 10 com 12 13 14 phy 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 MR. SPEREDELOZZI: WELL, MR. PROSECUTOR, WHEN DO YOU THINK YOU'LL BE DONE WITH THE CASE IN CHIEF? MR. TROCHA: AROUND NEXT THURSDAY OR FRIDAY, IF WE'RE ON FRIDAY. THE COURT: WE'LL PROBABLY BE ON NEXT FRIDAY. MR. TROCHA: I WOULD THINK AROUND THAT TIME WOULD BE THE END. THE COURT: WHY DON'T WE SET THURSDAY MORNING. AND BE ON PHONE CONTACT WITH DEFENSE COUNSEL SO HE CAN CALL YOU OFF BY PHONE. MRS. ALVARO: NOT A PROBLEM. THE COURT: THEN HE'LL GIVE YOU A NEW MORE REALISTIC DATE IF, FOR WHATEVER REASON, THAT DATE DOESN'T WORK OUT. YOU'RE ORDERED BACK NEXT THURSDAY 0, THIS DEPARTMENT, ON PHONE STANDBY. MRS. ALVARO: OKAY. THE COURT: THANK YOU, MA'AM, FOR COMING TO COURT. MR. ALVARO, THANK YOU FOR COMING TO COURT. WE'RE DONE. CHARLIE, IS EVERYBODY HERE? THE CLERK: I HAVE TO GO CHECK. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY, BOTH COUNSEL, AND THE DEFENDANT: THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THANK YOU ALL FOR RUNNING ON TIME. AS YOU CAN SEE, IF WE'RE FIVE MINUTES BEHIND ON COURT TIME, THAT'S 20 MINUTES AHEAD. SO YOU'RE DOING GREAT. ALL RIGHT.eC anaunrwne 10 em 2 13 14 15 16 wv 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 YOUR WITNESS, COUNSEL. MR. TROCHA: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. ANDRES L., CALLED ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY DULY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. TROCHA: Q. ANDRES, YESTERDAY WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ACTIVITIES YOU ENGAGED IN WITHIN THE SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET GANG. BEFORE WE START IN TODAY, I'LL MENTION SOME NAMES BACK AND FORTH. KNUCKLES, SCRAPPY, SPEEDY, IN TERMS OF SPEEDY, DO YOU KNOW IF HE HAD A SECOND MONIKER, A SECOND NICKNAME? A. YES. Q. 9 WHAT IS THAT? A. CHUNKY. Q. TRY TO SPEAK A LITTLE LOUDER AS WELL. THE COURT: INTO THE MICROPHONE. BY MR. TROCHA: SO THESE PEOPLE IN THE BACK CAN HEAR YOU. CHUNKY? A. YES. Q. | WHAT DID YOU REFER TO HIM AS? A. SPEEDY. Q. WHY DID YOU CALL HIM SPEEDY INSTEAD OF CHUNKY? A. BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I CALLED HIM BY, Q. THAT'S WHAT HE WAS KNOWN BY TO YOU?Rwne warvanw 10 ce 12 13 14 15 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 A. YES. Q. DID YOU HEAR PEOPLE CALL HIM CHUNKY? A. YES. Q. WHO WOULD CALL HIM CHUNKY? A. OLDER GUYS. Q. | WOULD THE YOUNGER GUYS OR THE GUYS AROUND YOUR AGE CALL HIM SPEEDY? A. YES. Q. DID YOU SEE SPEEDY TAGGED ANYWHERE IN SHELLTOWN? A. COUPLE TIMES. Q. WHAT LOCATIONS? A. 38TH STREET AND OCEAN VIEW. Q. YOU EVER HEARD OF -- YOU'VE HEARD OF OCEAN VIEW PARK. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF OCEAN VIEW PARQUEROS? A. YES. Q. WHAT IS THAT TERM? A. IT IS SPANISH. IT IS JUST PARQUEROS. Q. IS “PARQUEROS" FOR PEOPLE WHO HANG OUT IN THE A. YES. Q. WOULD THERE BE PEOPLE WITHIN 38TH STREET WHO WOULD CALL THEMSELVES 0-V-P OR OCEAN VIEW PARQUEROS? A. YES. Q. WHO WERE THESE PEOPLE? A. SHELLTOWN WRANGLERS. Q. WAS IT ALL THE MEMBERS OF 38TH STREET, OR WAS THISCoen anunrwune 10 1 2 13 14 1s 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 A SMALLER GROUP WITHIN 38TH STREET? A. ALL OF THEM. Q. ALL OF THEM? WOULD IT JUST THEN BE A SECONDARY NAME FOR 38TH STREET? A. YES. Q. WOULD YOU CONSIDER YOURSELF AT THE TIME TO BE AN OCEAN VIEW PARQUERO? A. YES. Q. DID PEOPLE GET TATOOS IN 38TH STREET? A. YES. Q. WHAT KIND OF TATOOS DID YOU SEE? A. WELL, A LOT OF THEM. Q. DESCRIBE A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT PEOPLE HAVE TATTOOED ON THEIR PERSON? A. A SHELL AND A TOWN, 38TH STREET, 3-V-3, C-P-38, 3-X-X-V-I-I, THEN 0-V-P JUST BY ITSELF. Q. KIND OF THE SAME THINGS PEOPLE WOULD TAG? AL YES. Q. DID YOU LIVE IN SHELLTOWN AT THE TIME? A. YES. Q. WERE THERE PEOPLE IN SHELLTOWN THAT WOULD GET 38TH STREET TATTOOED ON THEIR PERSON THAT WERE NOT MEMBERS OF SHELLTOWN?, AL NO. Q. WHY NOT? A. BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT FROM THE GANG. THEY ARE NOT -- THEY ARE NOT WELCOME. THEY ARE NOT FROM THE GANG. THEY CAN'T GET THEM.awne oaranuw 10 che 12 13 14 1s 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Q. DO YOU HAVE ANY 38TH STREET TATOOS? A. NO. Q. YOU DO HAVE TATOOS, THOUGH. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. ARE THEY ON YOUR FOREARMS? CAN I SEE THEM? A. YES. Q. STAND UP AND SHOW THE JURY. TURN THIS WAY. AND IT IS AN '"S" AND A "D." "S" ON YOUR RIGHT ARM AND "D" ON YOUR LEFT FOREARM? A. YES. Q. THOSE ARE THE ONLY TATOOS YOU HAVE? A. YES. Q. WHY DID YOU GET S-D TATTOOED ON YOUR ARMS? A, BECAUSE I WANTED TO JUST SO I CAN -- PEOPLE KNOW THAT I'M SAN DIEGO. Q. REPRESENTING? A. YEAH. Q. ALL RIGHT. LET'S START TALKING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED THE NIGHT THAT MOISES LOPEZ WAS KILLED. STARTING OFF, DID YOU KNOW MOISES LOPEZ BEFORE THE NIGHT HE GOT KILLED? A. YES. Q. HOW DID YOU KNOW HIM AS? A. AS? Q. DID YOU CALL HIM MOISES LOPEZ OR BY ANOTHER NAME? A. SMOKEY. Q. WHY DID YOU CALL HIM SMOKEY? A. JUST BY -- BECAUSE THAT'S HOW I MET HIM, HOW THEYwornraouanwne 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 Ww 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 CALLED HIM. Q. WHO CALLED HIM SMOKEY? A. I DIDN'T KNOW. WELL, THE GANG MEMBERS FROM SHELLTOWN CALLED. Q. IS IT SIMILAR TO THEM CALLING YOU STALKER? A. YES. Q. HOW LONG DID YOU KNOW SMOKEY BEFORE HE GOT KILLED? A. LIKE, TWO WEEKS. Q. DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL TOGETHER? A. NO. I JUST MET HIM IN THE SCHOOL, POINT LOMA HIGH Q. SO YOU WENT TO POINT LOMA HIGH AT THE TIME AS A. I USED TO PASS BY THERE TO GO TO THE BEACH. Q. SO AT THE TIME -- YOU TOLD US YESTERDAY THAT YOU STOPPED GOING TO SCHOOL AROUND 6TH GRADE? AL YES. Q. BUT YOU KNEW THAT SMOKEY WENT TO POINT LOMA HIGH SCHOOL? A. YES. Q. YOU NEVER WENT TO POINT LOMA HIGH SCHOOL? A. NO. Q. DID YOU KNOW SMOKEY FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD? LET ME REPHRASE THAT. YOU KNOW SMOKEY FROM THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF ‘SHELLTOWN? A. YES. Q. DID YOU KNOW ANY OF SMOKEY'S FRIENDS?Rwne earn anu 10 i | pL) 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 - 24 25 26 27 28 A. A COUPLE. Q. WHAT WERE THEIR STREET NAMES? A. KNUCKLES, SCRAPPY, RACCOON, TOKER, AND I FORGOT OTHER ONES. Q. I'M SORRY. ARE THESE GUYS ALL AROUND YOUR AGE? A. THEY ARE A LITTLE BIT BIGGER: 17, 18. Q. 17, 18 Now? A. YES. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF SMOKEY WAS JUMPED INTO 38TH STREET? WAS HE OFFICIAL? A. NO. Q. NO, YOU DON'T KNOW; OR NO, HE WAS NOT OFFICIAL? A, WELL, I DON'T KNOW IF HE WAS OFFICIAL. Q. YOU CALLED HIM SMOKEY? A. YES. Q. IF HE WASN'T OFFICIAL, WOULD HE HAVE HAD THE NAME SMOKEY OR WOULD YOU CALL HIM BY SOMETHING ELSE OR DO YOU EVEN KNOW? A. I GUESS YOU CALL HIM SMOKEY. I DON'T KNOW. JUST BECAUSE -- WELL, WHEN YOU'RE NOT JUMPED IN INTO THE GANG, THEY WILL JUST PUT YOUR NAME TO START WITH, THE GANG. Q. LIKE WHAT HAPPENED IN YOUR CASE? A. YES. Q. DID YOU GO TO OCEAN VIEW PARK ON THE NIGHT OF SEPTEMBER 13, 20087 A. YES. Q. AND WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DATE, DO YOU REMEMBER THE DATE, OR DO YOU REMEMBER IT AS THE DAY SMOKEYCan anunewne 10 lt 2 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2s 26 27 28 10 GOT KILLED? A. I REMEMBER THE DAY. Q. ON THE DAY THAT SMOKEY GOT KILLED, WHEN DID YOU SHOW UP TO THE PARK? WAS IT DURING THE MORNING? THE AFTERNOON? AT NIGHT? WAS THE SUN UP? WAS THE SUN DOWN? A. IT WAS KIND OF DARK. IT WAS KIND OF TURNING NIGHT. Q. DID YOU GO TO THE PARK ALONE OR WITH SOME OTHER PEOPLE? A. WITH SOME OTHER PEOPLE. Q. WHO DID YOU GO TO THE PARK WITH? A. SCRAPPY. Q. WHEN YOU WENT TO THE PARK, WERE THERE ALREADY PEOPLE THERE? A. YES. Q. HOW MANY OTHER PEOPLE, ABOUT? A. ABOUT 20 OR 30, PROBABLY MORE. Q. WERE THESE PEOPLE MEMBERS OF SHELLTOWN? A. YES. Q. WHAT ARE SOME OF THE NAMES THAT YOU RECALL? A. WELL, THE ONES THAT WERE IN THE PARK? IT WAS ~~ THERE WERE A BUNCH. YOGI, CARTOONS -- Q. CAN I_ASK YOU TO START SPEAKING UP AGAIN. A. IT WAS YOGI, CARTOONS, I THINK CHINO, SMOKEY, SCRAPPY, KNUCKLES, TEMPER, LITTLE ONE. Q. IT IS TAMPER OR TEMPER? A. TEMPER. Q. LIKE BAD TEMPER?we w ne Cana 10 uu 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 cae A. YEAH. Q. IS THAT A MALE OR A FEMALE? Ae A FEMALE. Q. LITTLE ONE, IS THAT A MALE OR A FEMALE? A. FEMALE. Q. WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE? A. YEAH. THERE WAS, WELL, A COUPLE OF GIRLS; BUT I DIDN'T KNEW THEM. I DIDN'T TALK TO THEM. I DIDN'T KNEW THEM WELL. Q. WAS SPEEDY mene) AL YES. Q. WAS HE THERE WHEN YOU GOT THERE? AY YES. Q. WHEN I ASK YOU THAT, WHEN YOU SHOWED UP IN THE PARK, WAS HE ALREADY THERE? AL YES. MR. SPEREDELOZZ! OBJECTION, LEADING. THE COURT: OVERRULED. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. YOU MENTIONED YOGI? AL YES. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: YOUR HONOR, AT THIS TIME I DON'T WANT TO KEEP MAKING THE OBJECTION, BUT THE PROSECUTOR IS LEADING. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THAT A CONTINUING OBJECTION DURING THIS LINE OF QUESTIONING. THE COURT: REMEMBER, NO SPEAKING OBJECTIONS. COUNSEL, YOU ARE LEADING. I REALIZE HE'S A JUVENILE.CaN nonunwne 10 dd 12 3B 14 15 16 Vv 18 19 20 21 22 = 24 25 26 27 28 BY MR. Q. A A “LET'S FUN. Q. 12 MR. TROCHA: ALL RIGHT. THE COURT: NEXT QUESTION. TROCHA: DID YOU SAY YOGI WAS THERE? YES. DOES YOGI GO BY A SECOND NAME? WELL, NOT THAT I KNEW. WAS MOISES LOPEZ THERE? YES. WAS HE THERE BEFORE YOU GOT THERE? YES. WHAT WAS GOING ON -- BEFORE THAT. WHY DID YOU GO TO THE PARK AT THAT TIME? BECAUSE SCRAPPY TOLD ME TO GO. HE JUST TOLD ME, GO TO THE PARK.” THEY ARE HAVING A KICKBACK, HAVING THEY WERE HAVING A WHAT? A KICKBACK, LIKE HAVING FUN, LIKE HAVING A PARTY. WAS THIS JUST A SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET PARTY? WELL, I DON'T REALLY REMEMBER WHAT WAS IT OR. WERE THERE PEOPLE THERE THAT WERE NOT MEMBERS OF SHELLTOWN 38TH? A. Q. A COUPLE OF GIRLS. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT GIRLS AND MEMBERSHIP OF THE GANG, CAN A GIRL BE A MEMBER OF 38TH STREET? A. YES. AS FAR AS YOU KNOW? YES.Coen nurwne 10 n 12 13 4 15 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Q. A 13 WAS THERE BEER AT THE PARK? YES. WERE THERE DRUGS AT THE PARK? YES. DID YOU DRINK ANY BEER? YES. HOW MANY BEERS DID YOU DRINK? TWO OR THREE. DID YOU USE ANY DRUGS? YES. WHAT DRUGS DID YOU USE? MARIJUANA. HOW MUCH MARIJUANA DID YOU SMOKE? LIKE TWO, TWO, THREE BLUNTS. WHAT IS A BLUNT? WELL, IT IS WEED INSIDE OF A SWISHER SWEET. IS A SWISHER SWEET A CIGAR? YES. TELL ME HOW YOU MAKE A BLUNT. WELL, IN THE STORES THEY SELL SWISHER SWEETS. THIS COSTS LIKE $1.75, AND YOU TAKE THE TOBACCO OFF AND PUT THE WEED INSIDE IT AND ROLL IT AND TURN IT AND START SMOKING IT. LIKE A GIANT JOINT? YES. DID YOU SMOKE THESE ALL BY YOURSELF? No. WHO DID YOU SHARE THEM WITH?Rwne earnanu 10 ce 12 B 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 A 14 WITH KNUCKLES, AND IT WAS A LITTLE KID. I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME. Q BEER? THE BEERS, DID YOU FEEL ANY OF THE EFFECTS OF THE WHAT DO YOU MEAN, LIKE, “THE EFFECTS"? SURE. DID YOU GET A BUZZ? YES. DID YOU FEEL ANY OF THE EFFECTS OF THE BLUNTS? YES. IN WHAT WAY? IT JUST GOT ME HIGH. IT GOT ME I'M SORRY? IT GOT ME HIGH. IT GOT ME, LIKE, RELAXED. WERE YOU FEELING GOOD? YES. WERE YOU FEELING SICK? No. YOU WERE FEELING LIKE EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE ALL RIGHT? A. Q. PERIOD? AL Q. YES. HOW LONG WERE YOU AT THE PARK THROUGHOUT THIS Fd WHAT DO YOU MEAN, "HOW LONG"? SURE. DID YOU STAY 10 MINUTES? AN HOUR? TWO HOURS? FOUR HOURS? AL LIKE ABOUT THREE, LIKE THREE OR TWO, SOMETHING~ Co arnrnunrune 10 co 12 13 4 1s 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 a 24 25 26 — 28 = LIKE THAT. Q. SOMEWHERE AROUND THREE OR TWO HOURS? A. YEAH, Q. WHAT KIND OF ACTIVITIES WERE GOING ON IN THE PARK WHILE YOU WERE THERE? A. WELL, ACTIVITIES? Q. SURE. I MEAN, WERE YOU GUYS PLAYING SCRABBLE AT THE PICNIC TABLE? A. NO. Q. WHAT WAS GOING ON? A. JUST HAVING BEERS AND TALKING RIGHT THERE. Q. HANGING OUT? A. YES. Q. AT SOME POINT WAS THERE A FIGHT OF SOME KIND? AL YES. Q. WAS IT A FIGHT OR WAS IT A JUMP-IN? A. WELL, THAT I KNOW I THINK -- I THOUGHT IT WAS A JUMP-IN. BUT -~ Q. WHAT IS A JUMP-IN? YOU DESCRIBED IT BEFORE AS WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU? A. YES. Q. WHAT YOU WERE WITNESSING THAT NIGHT, WHAT MADE YOU BELIEVE IT WAS A JUMP-IN? A. WELL, BECAUSE THERE WERE SOCKING SMOKEY, MOISES. THEY WERE SOCKING HIM, AND I THOUGHT HE WASN'T JUMPED IN; OR THEY WERE JUST GIVING HIM ANOTHER JUMP-IN OR I DON'T KNOW. Q. LET'S TAKE THIS A STEP AT A TIME, ANDRES. WHO WASRwNB we arnanu 10 uu 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 16 GETTING JUMPED? A. SMOKEY. Q. WAS HE THE ONLY ONE GETTING JUMPED THAT YOU CAN RECALL? A. NO. Q. WHO ELSE WAS GETTING JUMPED? A. CHUBBS. Q. WAS LITTLE CHUBBS AND SMOKEY THE ONLY PEOPLE YOU SAW GETTING JUMPED, OR WERE THERE MORE? A. THAT'S ALL I SAW. Q. WHO WAS JUMPING LITTLE CHUBBS? A, IT WAS SPEEDY, CARTOON, AND I THINK LITTLE CHINO. Q. WHAT WERE THEY DOING TO LITTLE CHUBBS? A. THEY WERE JUST SOCKING HIM, AND THAT'S IT. Q. WHEN YOU SAY, "SOCKING," WHAT IS SOCKING? A. PUNCHING HIM, Q. | WHERE WERE THEY PUNCHING HIM? A. EVERYWHERE IN HIS BODY. Q. DID THIS STOP AT SOME POINT? A. YEAH, Q. HOW LONG WOULD YOU SAY THEY SOCKED LITTLE CHUBBS? A. FOR LIKE A COUPLE OF SECONDS, LIKE 30, 60 SECONDS, LIKE A MINUTE. Q. WHAT HAPPENED TO LITTLE CHUBBS AFTER THE SOCKING STOPPED? A. THEY SHOOK HIS HAND AND JUST TOLD HIM IT WAS ALL GOOD. IT WAS ALL RIGHT. Q. DID THEY GIVE HIM A BEER OR A BLUNT?Cer anurwune 10 ny 2 B 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Vv A. WELL, HE ALREADY HAD HIS BEER. Q. WHAT DO YOU THINK, BASED UPON YOUR EXPERIENCE, HAPPENED TO LITTLE CHUBBS? ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. WAS HE JUST BEAT UP? WAS HE JUMPED IN? WHAT WAS. IT? . I THINK HE WAS JUMPED IN OR SOMETHING. |. LET'S MOVE ON TO SMOKEY, WHAT HAPPENED TO SMOKEY? . HE GOT SHOT. A, Q A, Q. WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE HE GOT SHOT? A, HE WAS GETTING PUNCHED. Q. WHO WAS PUNCHING HIM? A. SPEEDY AND YOGI. Q. SPEEDY AND YOGI? A. YEAH. Q. WHO STARTED PUNCHING SMOKEY? A. SPEEDY. Q. WHERE WAS THIS TAKING PLACE IN THE PARK? A. IN THE CORNER OF FRANKLIN STREET. Q. NOW, I'M GOING TO HAVE YOU TURN AROUND AND LOOK AT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 1. DO YOU SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH BEHIND YOU? A. YES. Q. DO YOU STILL RECOGNIZE IT FROM THE ONE YOU LOOKED AT YESTERDAY? AL YES. Q. CAN YOU POINT TO US ON THIS MAP OR THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHERE YOU SAW SMOKEY GETTING PUNCHED OR SOCKED BY SPEEDY?RwNeB eC anau 10 6) 12 ae 14 as 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 18 YOU CAN STAND UP. A. IT WAS RIGHT HERE. Q. I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A BLACK SHARPIE. YOU CAN PUT AN ": =- ACTUALLY, PUT A NUMBER 1, AND THEN CIRCLE THE NUMBER 1 WHERE YOU SAW SMOKEY GETTING SOCKED BY SPEEDY. YOU'RE DOING IT IN BLACK FOR THE RECORD. THE COURT: GO AHEAD AND MAKE A RECORD ON THAT. MR. TROCHA: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS PUT AT 1 IN BLACK WITH A SOMEWHAT OF A CIRCLE AROUND IT, KIND OF AN OVAL, JUST ABOVE A TREE ON THE DIAGRAM. THE COURT: OKAY. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. WHEN SMOKEY WAS GETTING PUNCHED, WAS HE FIGHTING BACK? A. HE TRIED. Q. HOW DID HE TRY? A. WELL, HE TRIED TO, LIKE, FIGHT BACK. WELL, TRIED TO DEFEND HIMSELF. Q. HOW DID HE TRY TO DEFEND HIMSELF? A. BECAUSE I GUESS THEY WERE JUST -- THEY WERE SOCKING HIM MORE THAN HE THOUGHT OR MORE THAN THEY WERE SUPPOSED TO HIT HIM OR PUNCH HIM, Q. LET'S TAKE THIS A LITTLE SLOWER, ANDRES. WHEN SMOKEY WAS GETTING PUNCHED, WAS HE STANDING UP? WAS HE SITTING DOWN? WAS HE LYING DOWN? WHAT POSITION WAS HE IN? A. THAT'S WHAT I DIDN'T SEE. Q. YOU DID NOT SEE? A. WHEN THEY STARTED PUNCHING HIM.Co arnnonueru ne 10 cay 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2s 26 27 28 Q. AL Q. 19 YOU DIDN'T SEE IT BEGIN? No. AT WHAT POINT DID IT CATCH YOUR EYE THAT SMOKEY WAS GETTING PUNCHED? A Q. PARK? AL Q. WHEN THEY WERE ALREADY GOING TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK. ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THIS SIDEWALK THROUGH THE YES, THE ONE OVER HERE. CAN YOU GET UP AND INDICATE THE SIDEWALK YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? A. Q. A Q. AL Q. AL Q. RIGHT HERE. YOU'VE INDICATED THE SIDEWALK TOWARDS FRANKLIN? YEAH. WERE THEY MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION? YES. DID THEY EVER MAKE IT DOWN TO THAT SIDEWALK? WELL, NO. OKAY. GET BACK IN YOUR SEAT BY THE MICROPHONE SO WE CAN HEAR YOU. THIS REMAINED WITHIN THE PARK? YES. WHEN YOU SAW THIS, WAS SPEEDY STANDING ON HIS YES. WAS SMOKEY ON HIS FEET? YES. WHAT WAS HE DOING? WHO?© ernranunrwune 10 1 12 2B 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ri 26 27 28 20 Q. SMOKEY. I'M SORRY. A. HE WAS TRYING TO FIGHT HIM BACK. Q. WAS HE THROWING PUNCHES? A. YEAH, HE TRIED TO. Q. AT SOME POINT -- WELL, DID SMOKEY REMAIN ON HIS FEET THE ENTIRE TIME YOU WATCHED THIS? A. WELL, YEAH. WHEN THEY WERE PUNCHING HIM, YEAH. Q. WHEN YOU SAW THE PUNCHING, HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE PUNCHING SMOKEY? A. TWO. Q. AND WHO WERE THOSE PEOPLE? A. SPEEDY AND YOGI. Q. WERE ANY WORDS BEING SAID? A. WELL, NOT THAT I HEARD. Q. COULD YOU HEAR WORDS BEING SAID? A. LIKE, WHAT YOU MEAN? Q. WELL, COULD YOU HEAR THINGS BEING SAID BUT YOU JUST COULDN'T MAKE OUT THE WORDS, OR WAS IT COMPLETE SILENCE? A. I DIDN'T REALLY REMEMBER. Q. HOW LONG DID THIS SOCKING LAST? A. A LITTLE WHILE, LIKE A MINUTE OR TWO, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Q. DID ANYBODY OTHER THAN THE THREE PEOPLE YOU MENTIONED, SMOKEY, SPEEDY, AND YOGI JOIN IN THE SOCKING? A. WELL, NOT THAT I SAW. Q. DID ANYBODY GO TO HELP EITHER SMOKEY, SPEEDY, OR Yost?eo oarnauneu ne 10 ce 12 13 4 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Q. DID You A SOCKING. Qa. a THEY HELPED SMOKEY. HE WAS ON THE FLOOR. HOW DID SMOKEY GET TO THE FLOOR? WITH THE GUN, WITH THE GUNSHOTS. LET'S MOVE UP TO THAT PART. WHEN THE SOCKING WAS GOING ON, DID IT STOP AT SOME WELL, THAT I KNOW OF, YEAH. I. JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU SAW, ANDRES. WHAT SEE IN TERMS OF THE SOCKING? WALK US THROUGH IT. JUST, I SEEN THEM SOCKING HIM, AND, JUST, I SAW WHERE WERE YOU STANDING AT THIS TIME YOU WERE WATCHING THE SOCKING? A Qa. THE BENCHES BY THE BUSH. CAN YOU TAKE THE BLACK MARKER, AGAIN, AND WRITE THE LETTER "A" WHERE YOU RECALL BEING. YOU CAN RETURN TO YOUR CHAIR. YOU PUT THE "A" BETWEEN TREES TO THE RIGHT OF THE PICNIC BENCHES? A. YES. WHAT COULD YOU SEE GOING ON FROM THAT VANTAGE WELL, SMOKEY GETTING PUNCHED. WHAT PART OF HIS BODY WAS BEING PUNCHED ON? WELL, HIS BODY, I GUESS. WAS HE GETTING PUNCHED IN THE HEAD? WELL, YEAH. WAS HE GETTING PUNCH IN THE CHEST? YES.wanaounrwne 10 uu 12 3 14 15 16 wv 18 ph 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 22 AT ANY TIME DID YOU SEE HIM GET KICKED? WELL, NO. HOW DID THE PUNCHING LEAD INTO A SHOOTING? WELL, THEY WERE PUNCHING HIM, AND, WELL, WHEN I HEARD THE GUNSHOTS, I SEEN JUST THE HOMIES RUNNING; AND PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE STARTED RUNNING. AND I STARTED RUNNING, TOO. Q. WHEN YOU HEARD THE GUNSHOTS, DID YOU TURN AND SEE WHO WAS DOING THE SHOOTING? A. NO. Q. NO? A. NO. Q. YOU DON'T RECALL SEEING WHO DID THE SHOOTING? ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, "RECALL"? Q. WELL, DO YOU REMEMBER WHO DID THE SHOOTING? A. OH, YES. Q. WHO DID THE SHOOTING? A. SPEEDY. Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW SPEEDY DID THE SHOOTING? A. BECAUSE, WELL, ACTUALLY, I DID TURN AROUND BEFORE I RAN TOWARDS THE HOUSES. Qa. A. Q AROUND? A Q. WHEN DID YOU TURN AROUND? RIGHT WHEN I HEARD THE GUNSHOTS. HOW MANY GUNSHOTS DID YOU HEAR BEFORE YOU TURNED LIKE ONE. WHEN YOU TURNED AROUND, DID YOU TURN TOWARDS THE AREA YOU HEARD THE GUNSHOTS COMING FROM?woanaurwne 10 ath 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 cal 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 SEE? A. Qa. A. 23 YES. WHAT DID YOU SEE WHEN YOU DID THAT? WHAT DID I WHAT? SURE. YOU HEAR THE GUNSHOTS. YOU TURN. WHAT DO YOU SPEEDY SHOOTING AT SMOKEY. DID HE HAVE A GUN? WELL, I GUESS BECAUSE -- WELL, WHAT ELSE COULD A GUNSHOT BE? Q. WHAT DID YOU SEE SPEEDY DOING THAT WOULD 7 HE HAD A GUN? A. Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? SURE. DID HE MAKE ANY ACTIONS OR DO ANYTHING AS YOU WERE WATCHING THAT TOLD YOU HE HAD A GUN? A No. WAS HE POINTING HIS HAND AT SOMETHING? No. WHERE WAS HE IN RELATION TO SMOKEY? RIGHT NEXT TO HIM. WHERE WAS SMOKEY? HE WAS, WELL, RIGHT NEXT TO HIM, I GUESS, ON THE SMOKEY WAS ON THE FLOOR? Yes. WAS HE SITTING OR LYING DOWN? HE WAS, WELL, I GUESS -~ WELL, THEY -- THEY HITwo arnanunrune 10 ree 12 13 14 15 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 24 HIM AND HE FELL. ‘THAT'S WHERE THE GUNSHOTS. Q. DID YOU SEE HOW SMOKEY GOT ONTO THE FLOOR? A. REPEAT IT AGAIN. Q. SURE. YOU TOLD US EARLIER WHEN YOU WERE WATCHING THE SOCKING, SMOKEY WAS STANDING. IS THAT CORRECT? A. YES. Q. SPEEDY WAS STANDING DURING THE SOCKING AS WELL? AL YES. Q. WHEN YOU WERE IN THIS AREA, WERE YOU WATCHING THIS SOCKING THE ENTIRE TIME? A. NOT THE ENTIRE TIME. Q. WHAT WERE YOU DOING WHEN YOU WEREN'T WATCHING THE SOCKING? A. WHAT WAS I DOING? Q. YEAH. A. WELL, I WAS TAKING A LEAK BY THE BUSH. Q. YOU WERE PEEING? A. YEAH, PEEING. Q. WHEN YOU WERE FINISHED PEEING, DID YOU CONTINUE TO WATCH THE SOCKING? Qa. ‘TOWARDS No. DID SOMETHING HAPPEN WHILE YOU WERE PEEING? YES. WHAT HAPPENED WHILE YOU WERE PEEING? I HEARD THE GUNSHOT. ONCE YOU HEARD THE GUNSHOTS, DID YOU THEN TURN WHERE YOU HEARD THEM COME FROM?Carn aonueune 10 AL 12 13 14 15 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 25 A. YES. Q. IS THIS THE TIME WHEN YOU SAW SPEEDY SHOOTING SMOKEY? A. YES. Q. WHEN THIS WAS HAPPENING, WAS SMOKEY STANDING OR WAS HE, AS YOU PUT IT, ON THE FLOOR? A. ‘WELL, I DIDN'T REALLY SEE SMOKEY. I JUST SEEN SPEEDY. HE WAS ON HIS FEET. AND SINCE IT WAS, LIKE, A HILL GOING DOWN, I JUST COULD SEE SPEEDY'S HEAD. Q. WAS HE DOING SOMETHING THAT INDICATED HE WAS. SHOOTING SMOKEY? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, "DOING SOMETHING"? Q. SURE. YOU SAW HIM STANDING. YOU TOLD US THAT SMOKEY WAS ON THE FLOOR NEXT TO SPEEDY. YOU HEARD GUNSHOTS. WHAT WAS IT THAT TOLD YOU THAT SPEEDY WAS SHOOTING SMOKEY? A. WELL, BECAUSE -- WELL, I TOLD YOU I SEEN HIM WHEN, YOU KNOW, SOCKING SMOKEY AT FIRST. Q. OKAY. AND THEN YOU TOOK A LEAK? A. YES. Q. YOU HEARD GUNFIRE? A. YES. Q. AND YOU TURNED AND YOU SAW SPEEDY? A. YES. Q. WAS SPEEDY IN THE SAME PLACE THE SOCKING WAS TAKING PLACE? A. NO.Rwne oar nnu 10 nn 12 3B 14 15 16 Vv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 26 Q. WHERE WAS HE? A HE WAS MORE DOWN, MORE. Q. WHEN WE'RE TALKING MORE DOWN, IS THAT CLOSER TO FRANKLIN? A. YES. Qa. AND THIS IS A LITTLE HILL THAT KIND OF ROLLS THROUGH THE PARK? A. VES. Q HOW MUCH OF SMOKEY COULD YOU SEE OVER THIS HILL? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? a. sure. “DED_YOU--SEE-HIS-ENTIRE” BODY? A, WHOSE? Qa. SPEEDY'S? A. NO. I JUST SAW, LIKE, FROM HIS NECK UP. Qa AND COULD YOU SEE SMOKEY? ad Qa HOW MANY GUNSHOTS DID YOU HEAR TOTAL? A WELL, BEFORE I RAN I HEARD ONE. Qa. WELL, YOU TURNED AND YOU LOOKED AFTER TAKING A LEAK? A. YEAH. Q. HOW MANY DID YOU HEAR BEFORE TURNING AND TAKING A LEAK? A. ONE. Qa. WHEN YOU TURNED TO SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON, HOW MANY DID YOU HEAR WHILE YOU WERE WATCHING? AL I HEARD, WELL, TWO WHEN I FINISHED WATCHING.oer nurune 10 ai 12 1B 4 15 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 27 Q. AT THAT POINT DID YOU RUN? A. YEAH, I STARTED RUNNING. Q. WHILE YOU WERE RUNNING, DID YOU HEAR ANY MORE? A. LIKE, AT LEAST ONE. Q. AND WHERE DID YOU RUN TO? A. TOWARDS THE HOUSES. Q. CAN YOU, AGAIN, GO TO PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 1 AND POINT TO US GENERALLY WHAT HOUSES YOU RAN TO. A. IT WAS BETWEEN THESE TWO. Q. COULD YOU TAKE THE BLACK MARKER AND DRAW A LINE WITH AN ARROW TOWARDS THE DIRECTION YOU WERE RUNNING. HOW ABOUT YOU CONTINUE THAT ARROW ALL THE WAY UP TO FRANKLIN. WOULD THAT BE THE PATH THAT YOU TOOK? A. YEAH. Q. YOU CAN SIT DOWN AGAIN. DO YOU RECALL TALKING TO DETECTIVES IN THIS CASE ABOUT THE SHOOTING? A. YES. Q. DO YOU RECALL WHICH DETECTIVES YOU TALKED TO? A. WELL, I FORGOT THEIR NAMES. Q. COULD YOU DESCRIBE HOW THEY LOOK? A. WELL, THE ONE I TALKED TO, HE SAID HE WAS THE PROBATION OF SHELLTOWN GANG OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Q. HOW DID HE LOOK? A. HE WAS KIND OF LIKE OLD, KIND OF LIKE -- HE WAS LIGHT-SKINNED, KIND OF LIKE WHITE HAIR, A LITTLE BIT KIND OF TALL. Q. WAS THAT THE ONLY DETECTIVE YOU TALKED TO?wCarnraunrwune 10 1 2 2B 4 15 16 v7 18 19 20 ra 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 28 A. NO. Q. WHO WAS THE OTHER ONE? HOW DID HE LOOK? A. HE WAS TALL, AND I FORGOT WHAT COLOR. I FORGOT. Q. WAS HE BLACK? WHITE? HISPANIC? ASIAN? A. I THINK HE WAS BLACK. Q. DID YOU TELL THEM WHAT YOU SAW IN THE PARK? A. YES. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF IT WAS RECORDED OR NOT? A. NO. WELL, HE HAD A LITTLE MICRO THING, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS RECORDED OR NOT. HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A RECORDING OR ANYTHING LIKE A. NO. Q. I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A TRANSCRIPT OF AN INTERVIEW BETWEEN DETECTIVES TAKING PLACE ON APRIL 18 OF 2009 (SIC), FOR THE RECORD, WITH DETECTIVE LAMBERT AND DETECTIVE PINARELLI. PAGE 26. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: COUNSEL, MAY I SEE? MR. TROCHA: YES. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. PAGE 26 DETECTIVE LAMBERT ASKED YOU: SO YOU WERE FIVE FEET AWAY. SO YOU WEREN'T BY THE BENCHES. YOU WERE A LOT CLOSER THAN IF YOU WERE FIVE FEET AWAY. SO THAT'S OKAY. YOU WERE STANDING FROM ME TO THIS WALL ANYWAY. THAT'S FINE. THAT DOESN'T MAKE YOU IN TROUBLE. THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANYTHING. IT MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE YOU WERE TELLING ME THE TRUTH, AND THAT'S ALL I WANT TO DO IS BE ABLE TO SAY THATwe anounrune 10 +‘) 12 ae 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 YOU'RE NOT LYING TO ME. "YEAH" WAS YOUR RESPONSE. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. THAT WAS AFTER YOU TOLD THE DETECTIVES YOU WERE LIKE FIVE FEET AWAY FROM WHERE SMOKEY AND SPEEDY WERE SCUFFLING OR SOCKING EACH OTHER. WOULD THAT BE CORRECT? ‘A. WHERE DOES IT SAY THAT? Q. LET ME GET TO THAT. HOLD ON. LET ME GO BACK TO THE BENCH WHERE IT IS EASIER. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: COUNSEL -- BY MR. TROCHA: Q. EARLIER ON PAGE 23 OF THE SAME TRANSCRIPT. DETECTIVES ASKED YOU, AND YOU SAID YOU AND SPANKY RAN. DETECTIVE LAMBERT SAID: OKAY, YOU AND SPANKY RAN AFTER YOU SAW SPEEDY SHOOT SMOKEY. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. WAS SPANKY THE PERSON YOU RAN WITH? A. YES. Q. YOUR RESPONSE WAS: YEAH, BECAUSE EVERYBODY WAS RUNNING, RUNNING, SO I STARTED RUNNING. DETECTIVE PINARELLI ASKED: YOU'RE SURE IT WAS SPEEDY? YOUR RESPONSE WAS, CHUNKY. DETECTIVE LAMBERT RESPONDED: CHUNKY? DETECTIVE PINARELLI SAID: OKAY, WHO DID YOU SEE HITTING HIM? YOU ASKED, HUH?weanaunrune 10 1 12 13 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 30 DETECTIVE PINARELLI ASKED: WHO DID YOU SEE HIT HIM AND KNOCK HIM TO THE GROUND? WHEN WE SAY "HIM," ARE WE STILL REFERRING TO SMOKEY? YOUR RESPONSE WAS: WELL, I DIDN'T SEE NOBODY FIGHT. I JUST SEEN HIM. I JUST SEEN LIKE WHEN HE SHOT. DETECTIVE PINARELLI ASKED: OKAY. WAS HE STANDING WHEN HE GOT SHOT, OR WAS HE ON THE GROUND WHEN HE GOT SHOT. HE BEING SMOKEY AGAIN. CORRECT? AL YES. Q. BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY ASKED: WHO? SMOKEY? DETECTIVE PINARELLI RESPONDS: SMOKEY. YOU RESPOND: HE WAS ON THE GROUND BY, LIKE, THE GRASS, LIKE, ON CLOSE TO THE SIDEWALK -- OR CLOSE BY THE ‘SIDEWALK. IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? A. YES. Q. DETECTIVE LAMBERT SAID: HUH? YOU RESPOND: I REMEMBER, LIKE, BECAUSE I DON'T REALLY REMEMBER EVERYTHING BECAUSE I WAS DRUNK, SO I STARTED RUNNING... DETECTIVE LAMBERT SAYS: BUT YOU REMEMBER HE WAS BY THE SIDEWALK? YOU RESPOND: YEAH. DETECTIVE LAMBERT ASKS: AND YOU KNOW HE WAS ON THE GROUND, AND CHUNKY WAS SHOOTING. YOUR RESPONSE WAS, YEAH. NOW, AFTER SEEING THAT, DO YOU RECALL WHERE SMOKEY WAS WHEN YOU SAW HIM GET SHOT?Canaunrwne 10 cr 2 3B 4 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 31 A. HE WAS, WELL, RIGHT THERE WHERE IT SAYS, ON THE SIDEWALK GOING DOWN THE HILL. Q. WHICH SIDEWALK ARE WE TALKING ABOUT? A. THE ONE ON FRANKLIN. Q. THE ONE CLOSE TO THE STREET? A. YES. Q. WHEN WE TALKED EARLIER TODAY, WAS THIS STILL WITHIN THE PARK? A. CAN YOU REPEAT THAT AGAIN? Q. SURE. WAS SMOKEY STILL IN THE PARK WHEN HE GOT SHOT? A. YES. Q. AND WHEN YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT MOVING TOWARDS THE SIDEWALK, THAT'S BECAUSE THEY MOVED DOWN THE HILL FROM THE EARLIER SOCKING LOCATION? A. YES. Q. IN ORDER TO SEE WHAT YOU JUST TOLD THE DETECTIVES, YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE CLOSER TO THE BENCHES, WOULDN'T YOU, AT LEAST? A. YES. Q. BECAUSE THAT HILL WOULD ACTUALLY OBSTRUCT MOST OF YOUR VIEW OF ANYTHING. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. YOU ALSO STATED THAT WHEN THE SHOOTING OCCURRED, YOU WERE FIRST URINATING. YOU TURNED TO THE LEFT TO SEE THE SHOOTING ITSELF, AND THEN YOU IMMEDIATELY RAN THROUGH THE HOUSES. CORRECT? A. YES.Rwne we avnanu 10 cay 12 B 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2s 26 27 28 32 Q. YOU'VE INDICATED THE HOUSE YOU RAN THROUGH IS THE ONE, IN FACT, BY THE PARK BENCHES? A. YES. Q. WOULD YOU HAVE BEEN BY THE PARK BENCHES URINATING AT THAT POINT IF YOU JUST DARTED OFF DURING THE SHOOTING? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. SURE. I MEAN, YOU'RE URINATING. YOU SEE A SHOOTING. YOU RUN. IS THAT CORRECT? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION, LEADING. THE WITNESS: YES. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. DID YOU RUN IMMEDIATELY AFTER SEEING SMOKEY GET SHOT? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION, LEADING. THE WITNESS: YES. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. WHEN DID YOU RUN IN TERMS OF SMOKEY GETTING SHOT? A. WHEN? Q. YEAH. A. WELL, WHEN I FINISHED TAKING A LEAK, PISSING OR PEEING. Q. YOU DIDN'T WAIT AROUND LONGER AFTER SEEING WHAT HAPPENED TO SMOKEY? AL NO. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION, LEADING. THE COURT: OVERRULED.Cer aurwune 10 che 12 13 14 15 16 v7 18 old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awn woarnanw 10 che 12 13 14 15 16 Ww 18 oy 20 21 22 23 24 = 26 27 28 34 A. YEAH, IT IS SMALL. Q. GOING BACK TO YOUR INTERVIEW WITH DETECTIVE LAMBERT AND DETECTIVE PINARELLI ON THE 18TH ON PAGE 29. DO YOU RECALL -- MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION. CAN I APPROACH SIDEBAR, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YEAH. LET ME TALK TO BOTH COUNSEL ON THE RECORD, (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN CHAMBERS.) THE COURT: I'VE GOT BOTH COUNSEL AT SIDEBAR. COUPLE OF THINGS, YOU HAVE BEEN LEADING. I HAVE SUSTAINED SOME, AND I OVERRULED OTHERS IN THE SENSE IF IT IS PRELIMINARY AND YOU'RE JUST SETTING SOMETHING UP, THAT'S NOT A BIG DEAL, BUT YOU ARE MOVING TO THE POINT WHERE YOU ARE LEADING. ARE YOU TRYING TO IMPEACH HIM? MR. TROCHA: AT THIS POINT, YEAH. WE DO HAVE THE PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT FROM THE DETECTIVE. THIS IS NOT A REFRESHING RECOLLECTION BECAUSE HE HASN'T SAID HE FORGOT ANYTHING. THE COURT: BASICALLY, YOU'RE IMPEACHING HIM AT THIS POINT? MR. TROCHA: YEAH. ‘THE COURT: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: HE'S ALLOWED TO IMPEACH HIS OWN WITNESS, BUT THE LAST TIME HE DID IT, I WAS EXPECTING ARwne wanau 10 ce 12 2B 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 | PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT. I DON'T THINK WE GOT ONE. THAT'S WHY I WANTED A SIDEBAR. IF HE'S NOT GIVING A PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT, THAT'S AN IMPROPER IMPEACHMENT. MR. TROCHA: HE DID. HE SAID HE WAS PEEING BY A BUSH WHERE HE COULDN'T SEE IS WHAT HE TOLD THE DETECTIVES. THE COURT: I'M GATHERING, OBVIOUSLY, HE TOLD THE DETECTIVES HE WAS IN ONE SPOT, AND HE TESTIFIED HE'S IN ANOTHER SPOT. IT IS VERY UNCLEAR HOW FAR AWAY HE IS. MR. TROCHA: RIGHT. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS, YOUR HONOR, HE CAN BE IMPEACHED, BECAUSE HE SAID ABOUT 12 TO 15 DIFFERENT VERSIONS OF THE STORY BY THIS TIME. THE COURT: THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR A GANG CASE. IN PARTICULAR, HE'S NOT A SOPHISTICATED PERSON. HE'S NOT A GOOD WHAT I WOULD DEEM TO BE HISTORIAN IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO RECALL, RECOLLECT, ARTICULATE, AND NARRATE. I HAVE NO DOUBT WE WILL SPEND SOME TIME ON PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENTS WITH THIS WITNESS. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I THINK YOU'RE CORRECT. THE COURT: WHETHER IT IS WITH THE PROSECUTOR OR WITH You. SO GO AHEAD. I GUESS MY CAUTION IS ON THE OTHERS, TRY TO NOT LEAD, I UNDERSTAND IF IT IS, ON THIS DATE WERE YOU -- DA, DA, DA FOR A PRELIMINARY QUESTION. BUT YOU KIND OF -- MR. TROCHA: IN TERMS OF THE LEADING, THE PROBLEM I'M HAVING IS WHEN YOU ASK HIM THE OPEN-ENDED QUESTION, YOU'RE MOVING ON A NEW SUBJECT: YOU SAID THIS. YOU SAIDCar nurune 10 eee 12 eb 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 36 THIS. WHAT ABOUT THIS? JUST TO KEEP HIM FOCUSED. THE COURT: AGAIN, HE'S VERY CONCLUSIONARY. I ACCEPT THAT. ALL OF THIS IS GOING TO COME OUT BETWEEN INCONSISTENT STATEMENTS, ET CETERA, BETWEEN YOUR CROSS. SO T JUST, YOU KNOW MR. SPEREDELOZZI: LET ME SAY THIS. I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH THE COURT ON LEADING. I GENERALLY DON'T OBJECT TO LEADING. I DON'T THINK IT IS A BIG DEAL, ESPECIALLY, LIKE YOU SAID, FOR PRELIMINARY STUFF. BESIDES, I CAN USE THAT IN MY CLOSING ARGUMENT BY TELLING THE JURY HOW MUCH THE WITNESS WAS LED. THE COURT: ABSOLUTELY. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: WHEN WE GET TO THE POINT OF THE CRUX OF THE CASE, THE ULTIMATE ISSUE, AND THE PROSECUTOR IS, BASICALLY, TELLING THE WITNESS WHAT HE WANTS HIM TO SAY, I ‘AM GOING TO OBJECT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I DON'T WANT TO HAVE THIS TRIAL BE ME OBJECTING TO EVERY QUESTION THAT THE PROSECUTOR IS DOING. I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT, BUT I WILL DO THAT IF IT IS GOING TO BE LIKE THAT. THE COURT: I CAN'T RULE IN ADVANCE. BUT I CONCUR WITH YOU. IN CASES LIKE THAT, THE JURY WANTS TO HEAR FROM THE WITNESS. THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR FROM THE PROSECUTOR. BUT, I MEAN, I CAN'T -- I CAN'T LOOK IN THE FUTURE AND SAY WHAT IS OR IS NOT GOING TO BE OBJECTIONABLE. IF HE'S LEADING, I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN IT. I UNDERSTAND IF YOU'RE GOING TO IMPEACH HIM, THEN IT IS A DIFFERENT ISSUE. BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ASK HIM -- USUALLY, IT IS YOU WERE ASKED THIS QUESTION, AND YOURRwne wo arnanuw 10 a 12 13 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 37 ANSWER WAS THIS. HE EITHER ADMITS OR DENIES IT. RIGHT? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THAT'S THE PROCEDURE I WAS TAUGHT IN LAW SCHOOL . MR. TROCHA: WHEN I DO THAT, I GET AN OBJECTION FROM COUNSEL THAT I'M LEADING. THE COURT: WELL, I THINK YOU GUYS HAVE TO BE CAREFUL. I THINK YOU WERE IN CERTAIN QUESTIONS WITHOUT IT BEING A PRIOR INCONSISTENT STATEMENT, YOU WERE LEADING HIM THROUGH IT. QUITE FRANKLY, AGAIN, HE'S A CONCLUSIONARY-TYPE OF WITNESS. THE ANSWERS YOU'RE LOOKING FOR ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE ANSWERS THAT HE'S GIVING. MR. TROCHA: RIGHT. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THAT'S EXACTLY WHY HE'S NOT A GOOD WITNESS. THE COURT: HE'S NOT -- MR. SPEREDELOZZI: AND THE FACT THE PROSECUTOR HAS TO LEAD IS, YOU KNOW -- THE COURT: BUT THAT'S ARGUMENT. MR. SPEREDELOZZI I KNOW. I KNOW. THE COURT: WE'RE GOING TO HEAR ABOUT THAT. AND I THINK, QUITE FRANKLY, IT CAN BE VERY EFFECTIVE TO A JURY BECAUSE THEY ARE WATCHING HIM, HIS DEMEANOR. THEY WILL DECIDE IF HE'S BELIEVABLE OR NOT BELIEVABLE OR WHAT TO BELIEVE, HOW MUCH TO BELIEVE. AND, OBVIOUSLY, THEY WANT TO HEAR FROM HIM, BOTTOM LINE. I GUESS WE'RE GOING TO PROBABLY BE WITH HIM MOST OF THE DAY? MR. TROCHA: I THINK MOST OF THE MORNING AT LEAST. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I DON'T KNOW WHAT MINE IS GOINGoar nueawne 10 ul 12 2B 14 15 16 17 18 a 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 38 TO BE, BUT IT IS PROBABLY GOING TO BE TIME CONSUMING, YES. THE COURT: OKAY. THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY, BOTH COUNSEL, AND THE DEFENDANT: ) BY MR. TROCHA: Q. ANDRES, WHEN YOU WERE WATCHING SPEEDY SOCK SMOKEY, DID YOU SEE SMOKEY GET KNOCKED TO THE GROUND BY SPEEDY? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION, LEADING. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. WHEN SMOKEY WAS GETTING SOCKED BY SPEEDY, DID SMOKEY REMAIN ON HIS FEET? A. SMOKEY? Q. CORRECT. A. WHEN HE WAS GETTING PUNCHED? Q. CORRECT. A. WELL, WHEN I SEEN HIM, YEAH. Q. DID YOU EVER SEE SMOKEY GET KNOCKED TO THE GROUND? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION, LEADING. THE WITNESS: NO. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE ANSWER WILL STAND. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. DO YOU RECALL TALKING TO THE DETECTIVES AGAIN TELLING THEM THAT YOU THINK YOU SAW HIM GET KNOCKED TO THE GROUND? A. YES.Coarnranurune 10 nu 12 3B “4 as 16 17 18 19 20 au 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 39 Q. IN FACT, DETECTIVE LAMBERT ASKED YOU: "OKAY. NOW, WHEN SPEEDY HIT SMOKEY, DID SPEEDY KNOCK HIM TO THE GROUND WHEN HE WAS SOCKING HIM?" YOUR RESPONSE WAS, "UM, I THINK HE DID." NOW, BASED UPON SEEING THAT, WAS IT THE GUN THAT KNOCKED SMOKEY TO THE GROUND OR WAS IT A PUNCH OR A KICK OR OTHER PHYSICAL ACT? A. WELL, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT AGAIN? Q. SURE. AFTER SEEING THAT, DID SMOKEY GET KNOCKED DOWN BY ‘A PUNCH OR A BULLET? A. WHEN HE GOT KNOCKED DOWN? Q. CORRECT. A. WELL, BY A PUNCH. Q. IS THAT YOUR RECOLLECTION? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. IS THAT WHAT YOU REMEMBER? A. YES. Q. HOW FAR AWAY WERE YOU WHEN THIS WAS GOING DOWN? A. WELL, I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH FEET, BUT I WAS KIND OF FAR AWAY. Q. WERE YOU SITTING IN THIS COURTROOM -- LET'S SAY THAT'S WHERE YOU WERE ON THE NIGHT IN QUESTION. AND WE'RE IN THE PARK. A. YES. Q. | WHERE WAS SMOKEY WHEN YOU SAW HIM GET SHOT? A. IT WAS LIKE Q. THE BACK ROWS IN THE CORNER OVER THERE? IT WAS LIKE BY THE BACK ROWS.awn we arnanu 10 uu 2 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 40 YES. MR. TROCHA: YOUR HONOR, DO WE HAVE A MEASUREMENT? THE COURT: 31 FEET. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. WHEN SMOKEY GOT SHOT, HOW FAR AWAY WAS SPEEDY FROM SMOKEY? A. LIKE, YOU COULD SAY, LIKE, TWO, THREE FEET. Q. LET'S SAY YOU'RE SMOKEY RIGHT THERE IN THAT WITNESS STAND, WHERE WOULD SPEEDY HAVE BEEN IN RELATION TO YOU USING ITEMS IN THIS COURTROOM? A. LIKE WHERE THIS LADY IS AT. Q. THE COURT REPORTER? A. YES. Q. | THREE OR FOUR FEET, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: THREE OR FOUR FEET. DO YOU CONCUR? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: YES. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. WHEN SMOKEY GOT SHOT, WAS THERE ANYBODY ELSE AROUND HIM OTHER THAN SPEEDY? A. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. DID YOU SEE ANYBODY OTHER THAN YOGI AND SPEEDY HIT SMOKEY THAT NIGHT? A. YES. Q. WHO? A. SOMEONE ELSE? Q. LET ME ASK IT AGAIN. DID YOU SEE ANYBODY OTHER THAN SPEEDY AND YOGICo arnanunune 10 1 12 13 14 eke 16 v7 18 el 20 ral 22 23 24 cL) 26 27 28 41 SOCK SMOKEY? AL NO. Q. DO YOU KNOW A PERSON NAMED SPORTY? AL YES. Q. WHO IS SPORTY? A. HE'S ANOTHER GANG MEMBER. Q. FROM SHELLTOWN? A. YES. Q. WAS SPORTY THERE THAT NIGHT? A. NOT THAT I REMEMBER. Q. DO YOU KNOW SOMEONE NAMED STONEY? A. YES. Q. WHO IS STONEY? A. ANOTHER GANG MEMBER. Q. IN SHELLTOWN? A. YES. Q. DO YOU KNOW IF STONEY WAS THERE THAT NIGHT? A. I THINK SO, YEAH. Q. DID YOU SEE STONEY EVER SOCK SMOKEY? AL NO. Q. WHAT WAS STONEY DOING THAT NIGHT? A. WELL -- WELL, I DIDN'T REALLY SEE HIM. Q. DID YOU SEE ANYBODY ELSE WITH A GUN THAT NIGHT? A. NO. Q. WHILE YOU WERE IN THE PARK -- I WANT TO FOCUS YOUR ATTENTION ONTO THE OTHER SIDE OF SOUTH 40TH STREET DOWN OFF OF THE MAP ON THE BOTTOM OF THE PICTURE. DID YOU SEE ANYBODY OVER THERE THAT NIGHT?Rwne wCarnan 10 che 12 2B 4 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 42 A, WELL, NOT THAT I SAW. Q. DID ANYBODY FROM THE PARK GO OVER THERE THAT NIGHT? A, I DIDN'T SEE IF THEY DID OR NOT. Q. WE TALKED A LITTLE EARLIER YESTERDAY ABOUT THIS. WHEN YOU FIRST TALKED TO THE DETECTIVES IN THE TRANSCRIPT WE HAVE BEEN REFERRING TO, YOU WERE IN JUVENILE CUSTODY. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. WHERE WAS THAT? A, KEARNY MESA. Q. HOW DID YOU GET TO TALK TO DETECTIVES INVOLVING THIS CASE? A. BECAUSE I GOT CAUGHT IN OCEAN VIEW PARK WRITING ON THE WALLS, AND THEY ARRESTED ME. AND THEY TOOK ME TO DOWNTOWN, THE POLICE DEPARTMENT; AND THE DETECTIVE, HE TALKED TO ME. HE TOLD ME THAT IF I DON'T TELL THEM NOTHING WHAT HAPPENED, THAT HE WAS GOING TO KEEP ME THERE ALL DAY, AND HE WAS GOING TO GIVE ME MORE TIME. AND, WELL, ~HE~=- WELL, THAT'S ABOUT IT. Q. WAS THE DETECTIVE THE FIRST DETECTIVE? AL YES. Q. WAS THIS ONE OF THE DETECTIVES YOU SPOKE WITH? A. YES. Q. WHY DID YOU TELL HIM ANYTHING ABOUT THIS CASE? A. WHY? Q. YEAH. A. BECAUSE HE TOLD ME THAT I KNEW EVERYTHING, ANDeCarnaunrwne 10 nn 12 3 14 15 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 43 THAT IF I DIDN'T TELL THEM NOTHING THAT HE WAS GOING TO GIVE ME LONGER TIME. AND HE WAS GOING TO GET ME OUT OF TROUBLE, AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE HE WAS TELLINGIMEL Qa EXCEPT YOU DON'T HAVE A DEAL IN THIS CASE. CORRECT? A. YES. Qa. NEVER SIGNED ANY PAPERS. CORRECT? AL NO. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION, VAGUE AS TO THAT LAST QUESTION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. BY MR. TROCHA: NO ONE FROM THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE OFFERED YOU A DEAL. CORRECT? A. NO. Q. NO ONE FROM THE POLICE DEPARTMENT OFFERED YOU A DEAL. CORRECT? AL NO. Q. THE ENTIRE INTERVIEW WITH YOU WAS RECORDED. CORRECT? A. I GUESS, YEAH. Q. YOU SATD THERE WAS A LITTLE RECORDING THERE. CORRECT? AL YES. Q. YOU ENDED UP DOING TIME ON YOUR CASE. CORRECT? AL YES. Q. WERE THE DETECTIVES MEAN TO YOU? A. HUH?earn aueune 10 lu 12 B 14 15 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 44 Q. WERE THE DETECTIVES WHO TALKED TO YOU MEAN TO YOU? A. WELL, NOT REALLY. Q. DID THEY MAKE YOU SAY THINGS YOU DIDN'T WANT TO SAY? A. SOME THINGS. Q. WHAT THINGS DID YOU NOT WANT TO TELL THEM THAT THEY MADE YOU SAY? ‘A. WELL, THEY FORCED ME TO SAY THE WORDS THAT BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO TELL THEM NOTHING. THEY FORCED ME. THEY TOLD ME THAT. Q. HOW DID THEY FORCE You? A. THEY JUST STARTED TALKING TO ME AND TOLD ME, OH, YEAH, YOU'RE GOING TO DO LESS TIME IF YOU TELL US WHAT HAPPENED. IT IS GOING TO BE ALL GOOD. YOU JUST GOING TO -- YOU HAVE TO BE GOOD AND BE STRONG. I DON'T KNOW WHAT ELSE THEY WERE TELLING ME. Q. AGAIN, THIS IS RECORDED? A. YES. Q. NOW, IN TERMS OF FORCING YOU TO SAY THINGS YOU DIDN'T WANT TO, WERE THESE THINGS THE TRUTH? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. WELL, THE THINGS THEY MADE YOU SAY, WERE THEY THE TRUTH? A. SOME THINGS. Q. WHAT THINGS WEREN'T THE TRUTH? A. WHEN BECAUSE THE TRUTH THAT -- THAT I TOLD THEM THAT SOMEBODY PICKED ME UP, AND I WENT TO THE PARK. THAT WASN'T TRUE. BECAUSE THEY CALLED ME, AND I WENT MYSELF TOwo arnanunrune 10 u 2 2B 4 15 16 eky 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 45 THE PARK. Q. SO YOU DIDN'T TELL THEM THE TRUTH ABOUT HOW YOU GOT THERE? A. YES. Q. WHAT ABOUT THE FACT, THE PART WHERE YOU TOLD THEM SPEEDY SHOT SMOKEY. IS THAT THE TRUTH? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. IS IT THE TRUTH THAT YOU SAW SPEEDY SHOOT SMOKEY? A. YES. Q. DID YOU WANT TO TELL THE DETECTIVES THAT? AL NO. Q. WHY NOT? A. BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT ANY PROBLEMS WHEN I GOT OUT. Q. | WHAT KIND OF PROBLEMS WOULD THOSE BE? A. WELL, GETTING SHOT OR SHANKED OR SOMETHING, JUST GETTING KILLED IN THE STREETS. Q. THIS INTERVIEW WITH THE DETECTIVES, IT STARTED OUT BY YOU -- WERE YOU TELLING THE TRUTH THE WHOLE TIME? A. WELL, NO. Q. | WHEN WERE YOU NOT TELLING THE TRUTH? A. WHEN I WAS TELLING THEM THAT -- WELL, I WAS TELLING THEM A LOT OF THINGS THAT I DIDN'T WANTED TO SAY. I WAS JUST POPPING OUT WORDS. Q. DID YOU TELL THEM AT SOME POINT YOU WEREN'T AT THE PARK? A. YES. Q. DID YOU TELL THEM AT SOME POINT YOU DID NOT SEE THE SHOOTING?RwnNe woarnanu 10 che 12 13 14 as = 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 A. YES. 46 Q. DID YOU TELL THEM AT SOME POINT YOU DIDN'T SEE THE BEATING? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION, LEADING. THE WITNESS: YES. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: MOTION TO STRIKE. THE COURT: STRICKEN. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. DID YOU TELL THEM THAT YOU WEREN'T INVOLVED? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION, LEADING. THE WITNESS: YES. THE COURT: OVERRULED. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. WERE THOSE THINGS THE TRUTH? A. NO. Q. WHAT IS THE TRUTH, AT LEAST? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? WHAT HAPPENED? Q. CORRECT. A. WELL, THAT I DID SEE IT. AND THAT I LIED TO THE DETECTIVES THAT I WASN'T THERE. AND, WELL, I WAS TELLING THEM THAT I WASN'T THERE, AND I DIDN'T KNOW NOBODY. IT. Q. WERE YOU THERE? A. YES. Q. DID YOU SEE WHAT HAPPENED? A. YES. THAT'S Q. IS THAT WHAT YOU'VE TESTIFIED TO IN COURT TODAY?eCarnaunwne 10 i 2 13 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 47 A. YES. Q. SO IN TERMS OF DETECTIVES MAKING YOU SAY THINGS, DID THE DETECTIVES MAKE YOU TELL THE TRUTH? A. SOME THINGS. Q. DID YOU NOT WANT TO TELL THE TRUTH TO THE DETECTIVES? A. YES. Q. YET YOU DID ANYWAY? A. YES. MR. TROCHA: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: YOUR WITNESS, COUNSEL. MR. SPEREDELOZZ! 1 YOUR HONOR, DURING MY CROSS-EXAMINATION, I HAVE SOME PORTIONS OF TAPED INTERVIEWS. 1 HAVE TRANSCRIPTS HERE. CAN I PASS THEM OUT NOW. OR -- THE COURT: WHATEVER YOU THINK IS THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY. I WOULD PROBABLY PASS THEM OUT NOW. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I WILL PASS THEM OUT NOW. THE COURT: YOU'RE GOING TO PUT IT ON THAT TV, OR -~ MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I HAVE SPEAKERS. THE COURT: IS IT AUDIO? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: IT IS AUDIO. I HAVE SPEAKERS, AND IT IS GOING TO BE CUED TO DIFFERENT PORTIONS OF IT AS I GO THROUGH THE QUESTIONS. THE COURT: ALL PARTIES STIPULATE THAT ANY TAPE RECORDED TESTIMONY NEED NOT BE REPORTED BY THE REPORTER? MR. TROCHA: YES. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: SO STIPULATED.eC ornueune 10 uu 2 1B 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 48 THE COURT: WE WILL NEED A RECORD OF THAT, OF WHAT WILL BE USED, AFTER. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: ALL RIGHT. I HAVE THE CD'S OF THE FULL TAPED INTERVIEWS, AND I CAN SUBMIT THAT TO THE COURT AS THE DEFENSE EXHIBIT "C," AS THE INTERVIEW ON APRIL 8, 2009 AND DEFENSE EXHIBIT "D," WHICH IS THE INTERVIEW OF JANUARY 28, 2010. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. (DEFENSE EXHIBIT C, CD INTERVIEW OF ANDRES L. 1/28/10, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) (DEFENSE EXHIBIT D, CD PHONE INTERVIEW OF ANDRES L., WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I'M SUBMITTING WHAT WOULD BE EXHIBIT "E THE COURT: CAN I GET A COPY, TOO? GIVE CHARLIE ONE FOR OUR RECORDS, UNLESS YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH. YOU HAVE ENOUGH? MR. SPEREDELOZZ! I HAVE 20. THE COURT: THAT'S PLENTY. MR. SPEREDELOZZ! 1 THERE ARE TWO TRANSCRIPTS. I BELIEVE I GAVE ONE TO CHARLIE, AND HERE IS THE OTHER ONE TO BE MARKED. THE ONE THAT IS MARKED DEFENSE EXHIBIT “E" IS THE INTERVIEW ON APRIL 18, 2009 (SIC). DEFENSE EXHIBIT "F" IS THE INTERVIEW ON JANUARY 28, 2010. THE COURT: OKAY.worn nunwne 10 ce 13 14 as 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 49 (DEFENSE EXHIBIT E, TRANSCRIPT OF INTERVIEW OF ANDRES L., WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION. ) (DEFENSE EXHIBIT F, TRANSCRIPT OF PHONE INTERVIEW OF ANDRES L. 1/28/10, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION.) MR. SPEREDELOZZI: YOUR HONOR, WHICH ONE DO YOU HAVE? THE COURT: I HAVE THE 28TH. I NEED THE OTHER ONE. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, JUST TO CAUTION YOU, THE TRANSCRIPTS ARE THERE TO HELP YOU. THE ACTUAL EVIDENCE IS THE TAPE RECORDING ITSELF. SO JUST USE THE TRANSCRIPT TO HELP YOU FOLLOW ALONG. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THERE SHOULD BE A COPY FOR THE PROSECUTOR. DO YOU NEED ONE? MR. TROCHA: I WOULD LIKE ONE. MR. SPEREDELOZZ! 1 YOUR HONOR, DOES THE COURT REPORTER NEED A TRANSCRIPT? THE COURT: NO. (CROSS~ EXAMINATION BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. MR. L., IF IT IS ALL RIGHT, I'M GOING TO CALL YoU ANDRES SO I DON'T HAVE TO SAY YOUR LAST NAME. IS THAT ALL RIGHT WITH YOU? YES.eCanaunrune 10 ao 12 13 14 1s 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 50 Q. ANDRES IS THE CORRECT PRONUNCIATION OF YOUR NAME? A. YES. Q. ANDRES, YOU WERE TALKING ON DIRECT EXAMINATION ABOUT THE CIRCUMSTANCES AT WHICH YOU WERE INVOLVED IN THIS CASE? A. YES. Q. YOU STATED THAT YOU WERE ARRESTED FOR WRITING ON A. YES. Q. AND WHEN YOU WERE ARRESTED FOR WRITING ON WALLS, YOU WERE TAKEN TO THE DOWNTOWN POLICE STATION? A. YES. Q. WAS THAT SCARY? A. NO. Q. YOU WEREN'T SCARED WHEN YOU WERE IN THERE? AL NO. Q. THEY PUT HANDCUFFS ON YOU? A. YES. Q. PUT YOU IN THE BACK OF A POLICE CRUISER? A. YES. Q. AND DROVE YOU FROM 38TH STREET TO DOWNTOWN? A. YES. Q. IN A POLICE CAR? A. YES. Q. HOW MANY POLICE DETECTIVES INTERVIEWED YOU? EXCUSE ME. HOW MANY POLICE OFFICERS ARRESTED YOU? A. THERE WERE LIKE FOUR OR FIVE CARS. Q. FOUR OR FIVE CARS?wean anurune 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 rie 28 51 A. YES. Q. THAT'S JUST FOR YOU? A. AND TWO OTHER GANG MEMBERS, SHELLTOWN. Q. WHO ARE THEY? A. SPANKY AND HIS BROTHER. Q. SPANKY AND WHO IS HIS BROTHER? A. SPANKY'S BROTHER? Q. YES. WHO IS HE? WHAT'S HIS NAME? A, HE IS JUST SOUTHEAST SAN DIEGO. Q. OKAY. AND FIVE POLICE CRUISERS ARRESTED YOU? A. WELL, YES. THEY CAME IN THE PARK. Q. OKAY. AND HOW MANY POLICE OFFICERS WERE THERE? A. LIKE, AT LEAST, LIKE, SEVEN OR SIX. Q. AND THEN THEY ARRESTED YOU AND TOOK YOU DOWN TO THE STATION? A. YES. Q. THEN YOU WERE SITTING AT DOWNTOWN WHERE? IN A JAIL CELL? A. NO, IN AN INTERVIEW ROOM. Q. HOW LONG WERE YOU SITTING THERE? A. FOR A PRETTY LONG TIME. Q. HOW LONG? A. WELL, I WAS IN THE CAR FOR LIKE FOUR HOURS. AND THEN IN THE ROOM, I WAS THERE FOR LIKE ANOTHER THREE OR FOUR HOURS. Q. YOU WERE IN A POLICE CAR FOR A FEW HOURS? A. YES. Q WAS A POLICE OFFICER WITH YOU?wCanaunrwne 10 2 3B 4 15 16 Ww 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 2s 26 27 28 52 A. YES. Q. HE SAT THERE WITH YOU FOR A FEW HOURS? A. NO. HE TOOK ME AROUND 38TH STREET AND ALL AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD. HE TOOK PICTURES OF ME ON THE GRAFFITI. Q. HE DROVE YOU AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD WHILE TAKING PICTURES? A. YES. Q. WAS THAT SCARY? A. NO. Q. DID HE TELL YOU YOU WERE GOING TO GO TO JAIL FOR WHAT YOU DID? A. YES. Q. DID HE TELL YOU YOU WERE IN TROUBLE? A. YES. Q. DID HE TELL YOU YOU WERE GOING TO BE IN TROUBLE WITH YOUR PARENTS? A. NO. Q. WHEN YOU GOT TO THE INTERVIEW ROOM, HOW BIG WAS THAT INTERVIEW ROOM? A. TT WAS LIKE HALF OF THIS COURTROOM, LIKE A LITTLE BIT SMALLER. Q. SMALLER THAN HALF THIS COURTROOM? A. YES. Q. HOW MANY WINDOWS WERE IN IT? A. THERE WAS LIKE TWO OR LIKE ONE. Q. WAS THE WINDOW ON THE DOOR? A. NO. WELL, THE DOOR WAS WIDE OPEN. Q. THE DOOR WAS OPEN, AND THERE WAS ANOTHER WINDOW?eCoanaurwune 10 uu 12 13 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 2. 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 = A. WELL, THE DOOR OF THE SIDE ON THE -- I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY WHERE PEOPLE PASS, THE DOOR WAS OPEN ON THE -- I DON'T KNOW HOW TO SAY. Q. WERE YOU IN THERE ALONE? A. NO. Q. WERE YOU PLACED IN THERE, AND THE DETECTIVES SAT IN THERE WITH YOU? A. YES. Q. WERE YOU IN HANDCUFFS? A. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. DID YOU HAVE ONE HANDCUFF CUFFED AND HAVE A CHAIN TO THAT HANDCUFF LINKED TO THE TABLE OR WALL? A. I THINK, YEAH, TO THE CHAIR. Q. YOU WEREN'T FREE TO LEAVE? AL NO. Q. AND YOU WERE INTERVIEWED FOR HOW LONG? A. FOR A COUPLE OF HOURS. Q. AND YOU REMEMBER THE NAME OF THE DETECTIVE WHO INTERVIEWED YOU? A. WELL, NO. Q. WHAT WAS HE WEARING? A. HE WAS WEARING A BROWN SUIT. Q. KIND OF LIKE THE SUIT I'M WEARING TODAY? A. A LITTLE BIT LIGHTER. Q. LIGHTER BROWN? A. YES. Q. DID HE HAVE A BADGE ON? A. YES.Rwne warnanw 10 a ie 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 = 20 a 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 54 Q. WHERE WAS HIS BADGE? A. HE HAD LIKE A LITTLE NECKLACE WITH HIS BADGE. Q. AND THEN HE TALKED TO YOU ABOUT THE GRAFFITI? A. YES. Q. BUT HE ALSO TALKED TO YOU ABOUT OTHER CASES. A. YES. Q. AND HE TOLD YOU THAT IF YOU TOLD HIM ABOUT OTHER CASES, THAT YOU WOULD SPEND LESS TIME IN JAIL? A. YES. Q. HE TOLD YOU THAT YOU WOULD BE HELPING YOURSELF IF YOU TOLD HIM ABOUT OTHER CASES? A. YES. Q. HE TOLD YOU THAT THEY NEEDED YOUR COOPERATION IN THE CASE? A. YES. Q. AT THE TIME YOU WERE ARRESTED, HOW OLD WERE YOU? A. TWAS 14, Q. YOU WERE 14 WHEN YOU WERE ARRESTED? A. YES. Q. THIS POLICE OFFICER, HOW TALL WAS HE? A. HE WAS -- I DON'T KNOW, LIKE, 5 -- 5 SOMETHING. Q. WAS HE TALLER THAN YOU? A. A LITTLE BIT TALLER. Q. WHAT WAS HIS BUILD LIKE? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. WAS HE FAT? SKINNY? MUSCULAR? A. HE WAS KIND OF LIKE -- I DON'T KNOW, A LITTLE BITwCanaunrwne 10 aon 12 13 4 aa 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 FAT. 55 BIGGER THAN YOU? YES. YOU DON'T THINK YOU COULD HAVE TAKEN HIM IN A. FIGHT, DO YOU? A WELL, I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT. WAS HE INTIMIDATING? WHAT DO YOU MEAN? DID YOU FEEL NERVOUS WHEN YOU WERE TALKING TO HIM? YES. HE MADE YOU FEEL NERVOUS? YES. WHAT DID HIS VOICE SOUND LIKE? WAS IT DEEP? I DON'T REMEMBER HIS VOICE. DID HE RAISE HIS VOICE WHEN HE TALKED TO YOU? WELL, I DON'T REMEMBER. I WAS USING DRUGS -- WELL, WHEN THEY GOT ME, I WAS HIGH. NEED Q. YOU WERE ON WHAT? MARIJUANA? YES. SO YOU HAD SMOKED THAT DAY? THIS IS IN APRIL? YES. DURING THE INTERVIEW YOU'RE HIGH? YES. AND YOU'RE IN CUSTODY? YES. AND YOU HAVE A POLICE OFFICER TELLING YOU THAT YOU HELP YOURSELF BY TALKING? YES.Con nurnwne 10 Bay 12 13 4 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 56 Q. AND WHEN IT CAME TO JAIL, YOU WERE UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT IF YOU DID TALK, YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE TO STAY THERE THAT LONG? A. YES. Q. YOU THOUGHT MAYBE IF YOU TOLD THIS POLICE OFFICER SOMETHING, THEY MIGHT LET YOU GO? A. NO. Q. WHAT DID YOU THINK THEN? A. I DON'T REMEMBER. BECAUSE HE TOLD ME THAT HE WASN'T GOING TO STOP BOTHERING ME IF I DIDN'T TELL HIM NOTHING. I KNEW I WAS GOING TO DO A COUPLE OF TIME BECAUSE I WAS ALREADY LOCKED UP. I HAD A RECORD, AND HE JUST TOLD ME, LIKE, JUST TELL ME RIGHT NOW SO WE CAN STOP BOTHERING YOU. IF NOT, WE'RE GOING TO KEEP ON COMING. Q. SO HE WAS BOTHERING YOU? A. YES. Q. WHEN HE WAS TALKING TO YOU, YOU WOULD DESCRIBE THAT AS BOTHERING YOU? A. YES. Q. IT WASN'T COMFORTABLE TALKING TO HIM? AL NO. Q. YOU DIDN'T WANT TO TALK TO HIM ANYMORE? A. WELL, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. Q. YOU WOULD HAVE PREFERRED IF HE LEFT YOU ALONE? A. YES. Q. AND HE TOLD YOU THAT IF YOU TOLD HIM SOMETHING, HE WOULD LEAVE YOU ALONE? A. YES.Caer auewune 10 1 12 13 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 57 Q. AND SO THAT'S WHEN YOU DECIDED TO TELL HIM SOMETHING. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. NOW, LET'S GO ONTO ANOTHER SUBJECT, WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT ON DIRECT EXAMINATION. I BELIEVE YOU STATED THAT -- LET ME ASK YOU THIS. IF SOMEBODY IN SHELLTOWN HAS A TATOO OR SOMEBODY -- YEAH, IF SOMEBODY HAS A SHELLTOWN TATOO, WHAT YOU WOULD ASSOCIATE WITH A SHELLTOWN TATOO, LIKE A S-T OR A SHELL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? A. THAT HE'S FROM SHELLTOWN. Q. WHAT DID HE HAVE TO DO TO GET THAT TATOO? A. HE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING DANGEROUS TO SOMEBODY, LIKE, SHOOT THEM OR KILL THEM OR GO JUST HURT THEM, INJURE THEM. Q. OKAY. SO DOES VERY TO KILL SOMEBODY, OR DOES IT HAVE TO BE VIOLENCE? A. VIOLENCE. Q. ANY VIOLENCE? A. BOTH. Q. YOU STATED THAT TO GET INTO THE GANG, YOU HAVE TO PUT IN WORK, CORRECT? A. YES. Q. AND THAT MEANS SOME VIOLENCE. RIGHT? A. YES. Q. YOU STATED YOU WERE IN THE GANG? A. YES. Q. YOU WERE JUMPED IN?Rwne eC anoau 10 Phe 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 = 20 21 22 23 24 i 26 27 28 58 YES. YOU WERE GIVEN A NAME? YES. SO YOU HAD TO PUT IN WORK? YES. WHAT DID YOU DO TO GET IN THE GANG? JUST START HANGING OUT WITH THEM, GO ROB THINGS, LIKE, GO ROB A CAR. GO IN THE LIQUOR STORE. GO ROB SOME BEERS. Q. WITNESS ROBBERY. AND GOING TO HOUSES AND ROB THINGS IN THE HOUSE. SO YOU ROBBED HOUSES? YES. WHAT HOUSES DID YOU ROB? T DON'T REALLY REMEMBER ALL OF THEM. YOU ROBBED ALL HOUSES? NO. I DON'T REMEMBER ALL OF THE ONES I ROBBED. YOU DON'T REMEMBER ALL OF THEM? No. APPROXIMATELY HOW MANY HOUSES HAVE YOU ROBBED? LIKE, THAT I REMEMBER, LIKE FIVE HOUSES. WERE THEY IN SHELLTOWN? YES. DID YOU ROB ANY LIQUOR STORES? YES. MR. TROCHA: YOUR HONOR, I OBJECT AS TO WHAT THIS THE COURT: NO SPEAKING OBJECTIONS. MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION TO FOUNDATION AS TOeC anaonunwne 10 i 12 13 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 59 THE COURT: I THINK HE'S CONFUSING BURGLARY AND ROBBERY. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I'M SORRY. WHAT'S THE RULING ON THE OBJECTION? THE COURT: OVERRULED. GO AHEAD AND QUESTION HIM. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THANK YOU. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. HOW MANY LIQUOR STORES DID YOU ROB? MR. TROCH, OBJECTION, FOUNDATION AS TO ROBBERY. THE COURT: DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT THE WORD ROB MEANS? THE WITNESS: YES. THE COURT: WHY DON'T YOU TELL US. THE WITNESS: ROB IS LIKE YOU ROB A STORE. YOU GO IN THERE AND TAKE SOMETHING FROM THE STORE. YOU ROB IT. THE COURT: DO YOU MEAN BY STEALING? THE WITNESS: BY STEALING. THE COURT: HE KNOWS. NEXT QUESTION. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. YOU STOLE THINGS FROM THE LIQUOR STORES? A. YES. Q. WHAT DID YOU STEAL? A. BEERS. Q. HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU DO THIS? A. LIKE, JUST A COUPLE OF TIMES. Q. JUST TWO TIMES? A. NO. LIKE THREE OR FIVE TIMES.Co arnanunune 10 ce 12 13 14 as 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 chy 24 25 26 27 28 Q. A. WHO WAS WITH WHEN YOU DID THIS? WELL, THE FIRST TIME I DID IT MYSELF. THE OTHER TIMES IT WAS SCRAPPY, MENACE, TOKES. Qa. LET ME ASK YOU THIS, ANDRES. YOU SAID ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT YOUR NAME IS STALKER. A. NAMES. IN ON 3-8 RIGHT? YES. YOU TOLD US THAT YOU GOT THAT NAME FROM SPEEDY? YES. SPEEDY GAVE YOU THAT NAME? YES. WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN? WHEN I GOT JUMPED IN. WHEN WAS THAT? 2008. WAS IT ON 3-8 DAY? YEAH. THAT WAS THE SECOND TIME I GOT JUMPED IN. THE SECOND TIME YOU GOT JUMPED IN WAS ON 3-8 DAY? YES. THE PERSON THAT JUMPED YOU IN WAS SPEEDY? SPEEDY, CARTOON, STONEY, AND I FORGOT THE OTHER OKAY. SO SPEEDY, CARTOON, AND STONEY JUMPED YOU DAY. IS THAT RIGHT? YES. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: ONE SECOND, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: SURE. COUNSEL, IN ABOUT THE NEXT FIVE MINUTES, GOOD PLACE TO TAKE A BREAK?wCanaounrwne 10 cay 2 B 4 15 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 61 MR. SPEREDELOZZI: WE CAN BREAK RIGHT NOW, YOUR HONOR. THE COURT: GOOD PLACE? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: YES, THIS IS FINE. THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. REMEMBER THE ADMONISHMENT. WE'LL SEE YOU BACK AT 10:30. (RECESS) (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN OPEN COURT IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY, BOTH COUNSEL, AND THE DEFENDANT: ) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE'RE BACK IN SESSION WITH OUR JURY. NEXT QUESTION. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. MR. [L.], I'M GOING TO SWITCH TOPICS ON YOU BRIEFLY. THEN WE'LL GO BACK TO WHAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE. EXCUSE ME. YOU STATED ON DIRECT YOU MET THE VICTIM IN THIS CASE. HIS NAME IS SMOKEY. RIGHT? A. YES. Q. DID YOU KNOW HIM AS MOISES LOPEZ? A. IT MET HIM AS SMOKEY. Q. DID YOU KNOW HIS NAME WAS MOISES LOPEZ? A. NO. Q. YOU SAID YOU MET HIM AT POINT LOMA HIGH SCHOOL?Carnaouerune 10 1 12 13 14 as 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 PE 26 27 28 62 A. YES. Q. HOW GOOD FRIENDS WERE YOU WITH HIM? A. HUH? Q. WERE YOU FRIENDS WITH HIM? A, WELL, I JUST MET HIM BECAUSE I USED TO GO TO THE BEACH RIGHT THERE, AND ANOTHER GANG MEMBER FROM SHELLTOWN TOLD ME THAT THEY WENT TO SCHOOL RIGHT THERE. I STOPPED BY AND THAT'S HOW I MET HIM. Q. WHEN WAS THAT? A. IT WAS LIKE A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO, LIKE, THREE OR FOUR. Q. THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO? A. YES. Q. HE WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL THERE? A. YEAH, POINT LOMA. Q. DID YOU GO UP TO THE HIGH SCHOOL AND KNOCK ON THE DOOR? A. NO. AFTER SCHOOL. EVERYBODY CAME AFTER SCHOOL. Q. YOU WERE WAITING OUTSIDE THE HIGH SCHOOL? A. YES. Q. WHY WERE YOU WAITING OUTSIDE THE HIGH SCHOOL? ‘A. SO I COULD JUST TALK TO THEM AND JUST TAKE THE BUS WITH THEM. Q. I'M TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU MET HIM. A. YEAH. Q. YOU HADN'T MET HIM YET. I'M TALKING ABOUT THE VICTIM IN THIS CASE, SMOKEY. YOU KNOW HIM AS SMOKEY? YOU HAVEN'T MET HIM YET. YOU'RE IN THE AREA OF POINT LOMA HIGHoar aueawne 10 pel 12 i 14 as 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 SCHOOL . A Q. A. 63 WHY ARE YOU THERE? BECAUSE HE TOLD ME TO GO THERE. WHAT? ANOTHER GANG MEMBER FROM SHELLTOWN THAT USED TO GO TO SCHOOL WITH HIM, THEY WERE FROM SHELLTOWN. Q. A. Qa AL WHICH GANG MEMBERS WERE THERE? TOKERS, KNUCKLES, AND RACCOON. THEY TOLD YOU TO GO THERE AND MEET HIM? THEY TOLD ME TO GO THERE SO WE COULD KICK IT. WE COULD JUST GO TO THE BEACH OR SOMETHING. a. A. SO YOU MET THOSE PERSONS IN SHELLTOWN? NO. WELL, I MET THEM IN SHELLTOWN. THEN THEY TOLD ME TO GO TO THEIR SCHOOL. Q. A. Q. A. Q. SCHOOL? A Q. A SO YOU WAITED OUTSIDE THEIR SCHOOL? YES. YOU DIDN'T HAVE SCHOOL THAT DAY? I USED TO DITCH SCHOOL A LOT. SO YOU DITCHED SCHOOL AND WENT TO POINT LOMA HIGH YES. AND YOU WAITED OUTSIDE? YES. THAT'S WHEN YOU MET SMOKEY? YES. THEN YOU WENT TO THE BEACH? YES. AND THEN DID YOU EVER HANG OUT WITH HIM AFTERoar nunwne 10 au 2 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 64 A. JUST LIKE, LIKE TWO, THREE TIMES. Q. OKAY. YOU STATED ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT, AGAIN, MY CLIENT, SPEEDY, YOU SAID SPEEDY GAVE YOU YOUR NICKNAME? A. YES. Q. TELL ME ABOUT THAT. WHAT ARE THE CIRCUMSTANCES IN WHICH THAT OCCURRED? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. I MEAN, WHEN HE GAVE YOU YOUR NAME, HOW DID HE DO IT? DID HE POINT AT YOU AND SAY, "YOU'RE GOING TO BE KNOWN AS STALKER"? A. YES. Q. THAT WAS AFTER HE JUMPED YOU IN? A. YES. Q. THAT WAS WHEN HE BEAT YOU UP? A. YES. Q. THIS WAS ON 3-8 DAY? A. YES. Q. WAS THAT 2008? WAS IT BEFORE -- STRIKE THE LAST QUESTION, YOUR HONOR. WAS THAT BEFORE THE DAY MOISES WAS SHOT, SMOKEY? A. WHEN I GOT JUMPED IN? Q. WHEN YOU GOT JUMPED IN. A. YES. Q. SO BEFORE YOU GOT JUMPED IN, YOU KNEW SPEEDY? A. YES. Q. YOU KNEW HIM BECAUSE HE JUMPED YOU IN? A. YES.woanaourune 10 ce 12 2B “4 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 65 Q. AND HE BEAT YOU UP? A VES. Q. AND HE PRONOUNCED YOU AS "STALKER A. YES. Q. AND YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY SAY IN THAT NAME, DID YOU? A. WHAT? Q. YOU DIDN'T HAVE ANY SAY IN WHAT YOUR NAME WAS GOING TO BE? AL NO. Q. DID YOU TESTIFY PREVIOUSLY IN THIS CASE, MR. [L.] -- EXCUSE ME. I APOLOGIZE. AT LEAST, DID YOU TESTIFY PREVIOUSLY IN THIS CASE? ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. HAVE YOU TESTIFIED BEFORE ON THIS CASE? THE COURT: DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE WORD "TESTIMONY" MEANS? THE WITNESS: NO. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. HAVE YOU CAME TO COURT, JUST LIKE TODAY AND YESTERDAY, THIS COURTHOUSE -- DIFFERENT COURTROOM BUT THE SAME COURTHOUSE -- YOU WALKED UP TO A SIMILAR LOOKING CHAIR AND TABLE AND MICROPHONE BEFORE AND TELL THE COURT A8OUT WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE? DID THAT HAPPEN BEFORE? A. YES. Q. THAT HAPPENED FEW MONTHS AGO. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. SO WHEN YOU DID THAT TESTIFYING, YOU REMEMBER TAKING AN OATH TO TELL THE TRUTH?Rwne warnanw 10 gue 12 13 14 as 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 66 A.A WHAT? Q. WHEN YOU TESTIFIED PREVIOUSLY, BEFORE YOU TESTIFIED, DID YOU RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND? A. YES. Q. AND SOMEBODY SAID TO YOU, “DO YOU SWEAR TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?" A. YES. Q. AND YOU AGREED TO TELL THE TRUTH? A. YES. Q. AND DURING THAT TESTIMONY DO YOU REMEMBER TALKING ‘ABOUT WHEN YOU MET SPEEDY? A. YES. Q. DO YOU REMEMBER SAYING -- AND READING FROM THE PRELIMINARY HEARING TRANSCRIPT PAGE 82 TO PAGE 83. WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE, COUNSEL? MR. TROCHA: I HAVE MY OWN. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. "HOW DO YOU KNOW SPEEDY? "BECAUSE I MET HIM -- "QUESTION: HOW DO YOU KNOW SPEEDY? “ANSWER: BECAUSE I MET HIM. “QUESTION: WHERE DID YOU MEET HIM? "ANSWER: IN THE PARK. “QUESTION: MOUNTAIN VIEW PARK? “ANSWER: YES. "IS THIS THE LITTLE PARK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT UP BY FRANKLIN AND 40TH?Cen nurwune 10 che 12 = 14 15 16 Vv 18 pL 20 = 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 67 "YES. "WHEN DID YOU MEET HIM? "2008." EXCUSE ME. I'LL SAY ANSWER. "QUESTION: WHEN DID YOU MEET HIM? 2008. “QUESTION: WAS THIS IN SEPTEMBER? “ANSWEI “ANSWER: I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT MONTH. “QUESTION: WAS THIS THE DATE MOISES DIED? “ANSWER: YES. “QUESTION: DID YOU MEET SPEEDY BEFORE THAT DAY AT ANY TIME? “ANSWER: I SEEN HIM, BUT I NEVER MET HIM.” DO YOU REMEMBER TESTIFYING TO THAT, ANDRES? A. YES. Q. YOU TOLD THE COURT UNDER OATH THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU MET SPEEDY WAS THE DAY THAT MOISES GOT SHOT? MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION. MISSTATES HIS TESTIMONY, PRIOR TESTIMONY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU CAN REHABILITATE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION? THE WITNESS: CAN YOU REPEAT IT AGAIN? BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. WHEN YOU TESTIFIED PREVIOUS IN THIS CASE UNDER OATH, YOU TESTIFIED THAT THE FIRST TIME YOU MET SPEEDY WAS THE DAY THAT MOISES WAS SHOT. AL YES. Q. BUT TODAY YOU'RE TELLING US THAT YOU MET HIM ONRwne wean au 10 il 12 13 4 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 68 3-8 DAY BEFORE MOISES GOT SHOT. IS THAT RIGHT? A Qa. A Q. YES. NOW, DID YOU EVER SEE SPEEDY AGAIN AFTER THAT DAY? No. HOW MANY TIMES BETWEEN 3-8 DAY AND THAT DAY MOISES WAS SHOT DID YOU INTERACT WITH SPEEDY? A. Q. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? HOW MANY MEETINGS DID YOU HAVE WITH HIM BETWEEN 3-8 DAY, 2008, AND THE DAY MOISES WAS SHOT, SEPTEMBER 13, 20087 A. HIM. Qa. I JUST, WELL, I DIDN'T HAVE MEETINGS. I JUST SEEN YOU JUST SAW HIM? YES. SO HE JUMPED YOU IN, GAVE YOU THE NAME STALKER? YES. IS THAT COMMON FOR -- IN THE GANG IS THAT COMMON FOR SOMEBODY OLDER THAN YOU TO GIVE YOU A NAME? A. Qa. YES. NOW, WHY DID HE CHOOSE THAT NAME FOR YOU? MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION, SPECULATION. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. THE WITNESS: BECAUSE, BECAUSE -- WELL -- THE COURT: THERE IS NO QUESTION PENDING. BY MR, SPEREDELOZZI: Q. LET ME PHRASE THE QUESTION ANOTHER WAY, AT LEAST. WHAT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF WHY THE NAME STALKER WAS CHOSEN FOR YOU?Coan nunwne 10 el 12 7 14 1s 16 7 18 7 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 69 MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION, LACK OF FOUNDATION, SPECULATION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. ‘THE WITNESS: BECAUSE THEY JUST, WELL, IT WAS -- HE JUST GAVE ME THE NAME BECAUSE I GUESS HE'S THE MAIN HEAD. BY MR, SPEREDELOZZI: Q. BECAUSE HE'S THE WHAT? A. MAIN HEAD, Q. 9 MAIN WHAT? A. MAIN HEAD, Q. I APOLOGIZE. I CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE WITNESS. THE COURT: MAIN HEAD, MAIN HEAD, IS THAT WHAT YOU SAID? THE WITNESS: YES. THE COURT: I GUESS THE QUESTION, WHAT'S A MAIN HEAD? THE WITNESS: THE BOSS, LIKE THE CAPTAIN YOU COULD SAY. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. SPEEDY WAS THE CAPTAIN? A. YES. Q. NOW, YOU SAID HE GAVE YOU THE NAME STALKER. HAD HE MET YOU, OR HAD YOU MET HIM BEFORE THAT DAY, 3-8 DAY? A. SEEN HIM. Q. YOU HAD JUST SEEN HIM AROUND? A. YES. Q. YOU NEVER MET HIM? A. WE JUST TALKED TO HIM, NOT REALLY A LOT, JUST METBowne 10 ca 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 70 HIM. Q. OKAY, AND WHEN YOU TESTIFIED AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING ON -- I BELIEVE IT WAS APRIL 1, 2010 -- YOU WEREN'T TELLING THE TRUTH WERE YOU? MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION, VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION? WELL, I'M GOING TO SUSTAIN IT AS TO -- REPHRASE. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. WHEN YOU TESTIFIED THAT THe" FIast TIME YOU HAD MET SPEEDY WAS THE DAY MOISES WAS SHOT, WHEN YOU TESTIFIED TO THAT UNDER OATH, YOU WERE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH THEN? A. gee Q. YOU LTED UNDER OATH? ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. YOU SWORE TO TELL THE TRUTH -- YOU SWORE TO TELL THE TRUTH IN THIS COURTHOUSE, AND THEN YOU CAME INTO THE COURTHOUSE AND LIED? MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTIVE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND ANSWER THE QUESTION. ‘THE WITNESS: I DIDN'T GET IT. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO ASK AGAIN, ANDRES? A. YES. Q. YOU CAME INTO THIS COURTHOUSE. YOU TOOK AN OATH TO TELL THE TRUTH. THEN YOU GOT UP ON THE WITNESS STAND AND You LIED.wCanaunrwne 10 cay 12 1B 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 2 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 7. A. WELL, YES. Q. WHEN DID YOU GET JUMPED INTO THE GANG, ANDRES? A. LIKE I TOLD YOU, I GOT JUMPED IN TWICE. Q. ON DIRECT EXAMINATION, DIDN'T YOU SAY YOU GOT JUMPED IN THREE TIMES? A. NO. Q. YOU DIDN'T STATE ON DIRECT EXAMINATION YESTERDAY THAT YOU GOT JUMPED INTO THE GANG THREE TIMES? A. I SAID I GOT CHECKED ONCE, AND I GOT JUMPED IN ‘TWICE. Q. WHAT DOES "CHECKED" MEAN? A. WHEN THEY JUST TELL YOU -- THEY JUST CHECK YoU, LIKE. THEY WILL JUST PUNCH YOU FOR A LITTLE BIT AND TELL YOU TO DO THE RIGHT THING IN THE GANG. Q. WHAT WAS THE TIME THAT YOU GOT CHECKED? WHEN WAS. THE TIME YOU GOT CHECKED? A. WHEN I WAS IN -- IT WAS DURING CHRISTMAS. Q. YOU GOT CHECKED IN CHRISTMAS. WHO CHECKED YOU? A. MENACE AND I DON'T KNOW HIS OTHER NAME. Q. AND SOME OTHER PERSON? A. YEAH. SOME OTHER OLDER GUY. Q. SOME OLDER Guy. WAS THAT BEFORE YOU GOT JUMPED IN ON 3-8 DAY OR AFTER? AFTER. Q. WAS THAT BEFORE MOISES LOPEZ WAS SHOT OR AFTER? A. AFTER. Q. SO IT WAS AFTER SEPTEMBER OF 20087oor nunrwne 10 1 12 ne 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 72 A. SEPTEMBER. Q. IS THAT RIGHT? A. SEPTEMBER WHAT? Q. 2008. IS SEPTEMBER 13, 2008, THE DAY YOU GOT CHECKED. A. YES. Q. WHEN YOU WERE INTERVIEWED BY DETECTIVES IN THIS CASE, YOU NEVER MENTIONED THAT TO THEM WHEN THEY ASKED YOU IF YOU WERE CHECKED, DID YOU? A. NO. Q. THE TIME YOU GOT JUMPED IN -- THE FIRST TIME YOU GOT JUMPED IN, THAT WAS 3-8 DAY. IS THAT RIGHT? A. THE FIRST TIME? Q. THE FIRST TIME YOU WERE JUMPED INTO THE GANG, THAT WAS 3-8 DAY. THAT WAS THE DAY THAT YOU GOT -- THAT SPEEDY JUMPED YOU IN? A. NO. Q. WHEN WAS THE FIRST TIME YOU GOT JUMPED INTO THE A. I FORGOT WHAT MONTH. IT WAS LIKE -- IT WAS LIKE -- I FORGOT. I FORGOT WHAT MONTH IT WAS. Q. WAS IT BEFORE 3-8 DAY? A. YES. Q. AND THEN THE THIRD OR I GUESS SECOND TIME YOU GOT JUMPED IN BUT THIRD INCIDENT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT -- REMEMBER BECAUSE ONCE YOU GOT CHECKED? A. YES. Q. THEN YOU GOT JUMPED IN BEFORE 3-8 DAY, AND THEN ONeer aounune 10 che 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ae 20 21 ac 23 24 25 26 27 28 73 3-8 DAY YOU GOT JUMPED IN FOR A SECOND TIME. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. NOW, WERE YOU JUMPED IN THE DAY MOISES WAS SHOT? DID YOU GET JUMPED IN THAT DAY? A. NO. Q. WERE YOU CHECKED THAT DAY? A. NO. Q. YOU WERE NEITHER CHECKED NOR JUMPED IN THE DAY MOISES GOT SHOT? AL NO. Q. SPEEDY DIDN'T BEAT YOU UP THAT DAY? A. NO. Q. NOBODY BEAT YOU UP THAT DAY? A. NO. Q. YOU WERE AT THE PARK THE WHOLE DAY, AND YOU DIDN'T GET CHECKED, JUMPED, BEAT UP OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT? A. NO. Q. I'M READING FROM THE PRELIMINARY EXAMINATION TRANSCRIPT, THE SAME ONE I WAS ALLUDING TO BEFORE, PAGE 118. "QUESTION: THE DAY THAT SMOKEY GOT SHOT, WERE YOU GETTING JUMPED IN THAT DAY? “ANSWER: WAS I GETTING JUMPED IN? “QUESTION: RIGHT. “ANSWE! YES. “QUESTION: WERE YOU GETTING JUMPED IN THE DAY SMOKEY GOT SHOT? "ANSWER: YES. "QUESTION: HAD YOU BEEN JUMPED IN BEFORE THE DAY“HVIA | YBMSNY,, 203xD3HD ~:NOILSAND,, “GaxO3HD LOD T ‘HVA :YEMSNV,, ZAWLL GNOD3S V G3¥D3HD 139 NOA GIa :NOTSIND,, “NE GadWNC SVM I ‘ATGRSOddNS “SVM T ‘773M }ABMSNV,, ELOHS 105 ASNONS N3HM NI a3dWnc N33B@ AQVBYIV NOA GVH “AVG LVHL HLIM LXVIS “LOS 109 A3NOWS AV 3HL LNOGV ONINIVL 3Y,3M YNIHL I :NOTISIND,, ZAVO LVHL WaL4V IGMSNV, }kivd HL AW AVG LVHL YaLdV NI G3dWNC LOD NOA :NOILS3ND,, “ON :UaMSNV,, NI G3dWNC N338 AGVEYTV NOA GVH :NOILSIND,, “ON :YSMSNV,, eawIh BWVS 3HL LV NI G3dWNC ONTLLID NOA 3¥3M :NOTLSIND,, “HVBA UaMSNV,, QRivd SHL LV LHOIN LHL ALuvd 3HL :NOTLSIND,, “SBA YMSNV, Z1D3Y40D ZLOHS SVM ASNOWS AVO 3WVS SHL LVHL SVM ‘NI G3dWnc 109 S8ANHD FVLLTT AVO HL “AVNO :NOTLSIND,, “wid V SVM LT “ON ?UaMSNV,, ésagnH> 31111 HLIM NI G3dWNC DNILLAD OSIV 3Y,NOA OS :NOILSIND,, “NI GadWnc 1,NSWM I Ana ‘G3x93H) SVM I -- 1SMC I “ON ?¥AMSNV,, 2LOHS 109 3H bh neon oo adamsawne wCanvanu 10 ce 12 13 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 ra 24 25 26 27 28 75 “QUESTION: THAT WAS BY WHOM? "ANSWER: BUT IT WAS BY ANT, CARTOON, SPEEDY, AND I FORGOT HIS OTHER NAME. "QUESTION: THAT WASN'T THE SAME DAY YOU GOT JUMPED IN AT OCEAN VIEW PARK? "ANSWER: NO." ANDRES, I THINK I WENT A LITTLE BIT TOO FAR, BUT APPARENTLY, YOU SAID YOU WERE GETTING JUMPED IN THE DAY AT THE PARK, THE DAY MOISES GOT SHOT. MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR, MISSTATES HIS TESTIMONY. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. READING FROM THE PRELIMINARY HEARING TRANSCRIPT: "QUESTION: WERE YOU GETTING JUMPED IN ON THE DAY SMOKEY GOT SHOT?" MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION. ASKED AND ANSWERED. ‘THE COURT: OVERRULED. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: “ANSWER: YES." YOU WERE ASKED DURING YOUR EXAMINATION IF YOU WERE GETTING JUMPED IN THE DAY MOISES GOT SHOT. YOU SAID, YES. DO YOU REMEMBER SAYING THAT? A. YES. Q. BUT TODAY YOU SAY THAT'S NOT TRUE? MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION, MISSTATES HIS TESTIMONY AND ARGUMENTIVE THE COURT: SUSTAINED. IT IS ARGUMENTATIVE.wo ananurune 10 chy 12 13 14 A 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 ry 24 25 26 27 28 76 BY MR, SPEREDELOZZI: Qa. TODAY YOUR TESTIMONY IS THAT YOU WERE NOT GETTING JUMPED IN THE DAY MOISES WAS SHOT. IS THAT RIGHT? A Qa. BY MR. Q. A AL Q. YES. WHAT'S THE TRUTH, ANDRES? MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTIVE, VAGUE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION? THE WITNESS: SAY IT AGAIN, PLEASE. SPEREDELOZZI: WHAT'S THE TRUTH? THAT I GOT JUMPED IN AFTER. YOU GOT JUMPED IN AFTER THE DAY MOISES WAS SHOT? YES. I THOUGHT YOU GOT CHECKED AFTER THE DAY MOISES WAS WELL, YOU COULD SAY CHECKED OR JUMPED. SO CHECKED AND JUMPED IN TO YOU ARE TWO INTERCHANGEABLE TERMS? AL Q. A a. A Qa. SPEEDY. A Q. I GUESS. SO YOU GOT BEAT UP A LOT? YES. BY MEMBERS OF SHELLTOWN? YES. WHAT'S THE LIST? WHO BEAT YOU UP? WE HAVE HE BEAT YOU UP? YES. DID TOKER BEAT YOU UP?warnaunrwne 10 ay 13 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Q. No. HOW ABOUT RACCOON? No. ANT? No. CHUBBS? No. LITTLE CHUBBS? No. STONEY? YES. ‘SHOTGUN? YES. CARTOON? YES. SNOOPS? YES. FLACO? YES. DOWNER? YES. ALL THESE PEOPLE BEAT YOU UP OVER A PERIOD OF WHAT? =A YEAR? A a. THEN? Q. NO. NO. WELL, CHRISTMAS, WAS THAT 2008? YOU GOT BEAT UP No. YOU DIDN'T GET CHECKED DURING CHRISTMAS? 7Cer nurwu ne 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2s 26 27 28 A Qa. CHECKED A 78 No. ANDRES, DIDN'T YOU JUST TELL US THAT YOU GOT AROUND CHRISTMAS? I GOT CHECKED, BUT I DIDN'T GET JUMPED OR NOTHING. THEY JUST TALKED TO ME. Qa A THING. TOLD ME. Q. A WHAT DID THEY SAY? THEY JUST TOLD ME THAT I CAN'T DO THAT WRONG, THAT BECAUSE I WAS DOING SOMETHING WRONG, AND THEY JUST TO NOT DO IT. THAT'S IT. WHAT WERE YOU DOING WRONG? I WAS TALKING TO SOME GIRL, A GIRL FROM SHELLTOWN. LIKE, WRONG, THEY TOLD ME THAT I CAN'T DO THAT. THAT'S IT. AND WHO WAS THIS AGAIN? IT WAS MENACE AND SOME OTHER GUY, SOME OLDER GUY. WHEN YOU GOT JUMPED IN ON 3-8 DAY, WHERE WAS THAT? 3-8 DAY? YES. WHERE DID THAT HAPPEN? AT A HOUSE. WHAT HOUSE? SPEEDY'S. YOU GOT JUMPED IN ON 3-8 DAY AT SPEEDY'S HOUSE? YES. WHERE IS HIS HOUSE? WELL, THAT I KNOW, IN SPRING VALLEY. HE LIVES IN SPRING VALLEY? THAT I KNOW, WHERE I WENT. SO YOU WENT TO SPRING VALLEY. HOW DID YOU GET THERE?Carnaounrune 10 ce 12 13 14 1s 16 wv 18 a7 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 79 A. THEY TOOK ME. Q. WHO TOOK You? A. SPANKY. Q. AND WHO GOT JUMPED IN WITH You? A. LITTLE CHUBBS, HEFTY, SPANKY AND BLANCO. Q. SPANKY, HEFTY, LITTLE CHUBBS AND BLANCO ON 3-8 DAY AND THAT WAS AT SPRING VALLEY? A. YES. Q. DID YOU EVER GET JUMPED IN AT SOUTH CREST PARK? A. YES. Q. WHEN WAS THAT? A. IT WAS LIKE 2009, I THINK. Q. AND WHEN YOU WERE JUMPED IN AT SOUTH CREST PARK, WHO WAS THERE GETTING JUMPED IN WITH YOU? A. TT WAS JUST ME. Q. AND WHO JUMPED YOU IN? ‘A. SNOOPS, FLACO AND DOWNER. Q. AND WHAT DAY WAS THAT? A. I DON'T REMEMBER THE DAY. Q. THE NIGHT THAT MOISES WAS SHOT, DO YOU REMEMBER SAYING THAT YOGI WAS JUMPED IN THAT NIGHT? A. NO. Q. DID YOU SAY THAT DURING YOUR INTERVIEW WITH THE DETECTIVES? A. THAT WHAT? Q. THAT YOGI WAS GETTING JUMPED IN THAT NIGHT? A. NO. Q. LET'S MOVE ON.Co orN nue wne 10 com 12 13 14 15s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 ce) 24 25 26 oo 28 80 YOU KNOW SOMEBODY NAMED LITTLE CHUBBS? A. YES. Q. WHOSE HE? A. A YOUNG -- WELL, HE'S YOUNG. Q. HOW YOUNG? A. LIKE 16, 17. Q. OKAY. WHAT ABOUT BIG CHUBBS? A. BIG CHUBBS. Q. WHO'S BIG CHUBBS? A. SOME OLDER GUY. Q. OKAY. SO WE HAVE CHUBBS AND BIG CHUBBS. WERE THEY AT THE PARK THE NIGHT MOISES WAS SHOT? A. LITTLE CHUBBS. Q. LITTLE CHUBBS WAS. SO YOU KNOW TWO PEOPLE, ONE IS NAMED CHUBBS; AND ONE IS BIG CHUBBS -- OR EXCUSE ME. ONE IS LITTLE CHUBBS AND ONE IS BIG CHUBBS? A. YES. Q. ARE THEY BROTHERS? A. WELL, NOT THAT I KNOW OF. I THINK THEY ARE COUSINS. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE. Q. DO YOU REMEMBER DOING AN INTERVIEW OVER THE PHONE WITH DETECTIVE PINARELLI ON JANUARY 28, 20107 A. YES. Q. DURING THAT INTERVIEW DID DETECTIVE PINARELLI ASK YOU ABOUT CHUBBS AND LITTLE CHUBBS? A. YES. Q. AND ON THAT DATE YOU TOLD THEM SOMETHINGwar nunrwune 10 aM, 12 13 14 1s 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 81 INTERESTING, DIDN'T YOU? A. YES. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: YOUR HONOR, AT THIS POINT I'M GOING TO PLAY A PORTION OF THE TAPE IF YOU COULD GIVE ME A SECOND. THE COURT: OKAY. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: IT IS GOING TO BE ON PAGE 7 OF THE TRANSCRIPT, AND THIS IS THE TRANSCRIPT OF JANUARY 28, 2010, OF ANDRES [L.]. IF YOU WOULD GIVE ME A SECOND TO CUE UP THE TAPE? THE COURT: SURE. REMEMBER, EVERYBODY HAS TO HEAR. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: HOPEFULLY, EVERYBODY CAN HEAR THIS. ALL RIGHT. I'M GOING TO START IT. (RECORDING PLAYED IN OPEN COURT, NOT REPORTED.) MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I'M GOING TO STOP IT, YOUR HONOR. I'M GOING TO MOVE FORWARD TO A DIFFERENT PORTION OF THE TAPE AT THIS TIME. THE COURT: OKAY. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I'M GOING TO BE ON PAGE 12 OF THAT SAME INTERVIEW. THE COURT: YOU KNOW WHAT LINE IT STARTS AT? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: IT STARTS AT LINE 18. I'M GOING TO PLAY UNTIL LINE 18 ON THE NEXT PAGE. (RECORDING PLAYED IN OPEN COURT.)we w ne wana 10 ehh 2 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 82 BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. WERE YOU ABLE TO HEAR THAT, ANDRES? A. YES. Q. YOU TOLD THE DETECTIVE ON THE PHONE THAT CHUBBS AND LITTLE CHUBBS, BIG CHUBBS, THAT'S THE SAME GUY? A. YES. Q. YOU TOLD HIM THAT -- HE SAID YOU REFERRED TO BIG CHUBBS IN THE PAST, BUT YOU SAID: WELL, THAT'S HOW I KNOW HIM IS JUST CHUBBS? A. YES. Q. EARLIER YOU STATED UNDER OATH -- RIGHT NOW YOU STATED THERE IS A LITTLE CHUBBS, AND THERE IS A BIG CHUBBS; AND THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE? A. YES. Q. SO WHAT WERE YOU TALKING ABOUT WHEN HE ASKED YOU THOSE QUESTIONS? A. WELL, THAT I KNOW THERE IS A LITTLE CHUBBS AND A BIG CHUBBS. Q. YOU DO KNOW TWO CHUBBS? A. YES. Q. WHY DID YOU TELL THE DETECTIVE THEY WERE THE SAME A. I DON'T KNOW. I JUST -- I JUST TOLD HIM. Q. DO YOU JUST SAY THINGS A LOT THAT AREN'T TRUE? MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION, ARGUMENTIVE. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: NO.wCarnaunwne 10 Bue 12 af 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 83 BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. YOU JUST TOLD THE DETECTIVE A FACT THAT WASN'T TRUE. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. DID YOU KNOW IT WASN'T TRUE WHEN YOU SAID IT? ‘A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN? Q. WHEN YOU MADE THE STATEMENTS TO THE DETECTIVE, DID YOU KNOW YOU WERE LYING TO HIM? A. NO. Q. | WHAT WAS YOUR IMPRESSION OF WHAT YOU WERE DOING? A. WELL, BECAUSE I GOT KIND OF CONFUSED WITH HIM, LIKE, BECAUSE -- I DON'T KNOW. I JUST GOT CONFUSED BECAUSE HE SAYS IT LIKE TOO MANY BIG WORDS THAT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND. IT WAS, LIKE -- I DON'T KNOW. HE GOT ME CONFUSED. Q. DO YOU CONFUSE PEOPLE A LOT? No. A Q. DO YOU GET CONFUSED A LOT? A, WELL, WITH BIG WORDS, YEAH. Q, . YOU GET CONFUSED OVER WHEN YOU WERE JUMPED IN. AL NO. Q. YOU DON'T? A. NO. Q. SO YOU COULD TELL US EACH TIME YOU WERE JUMPED IN RIGHT NOW? A. YES. Q. AND YOU WOULDN'T BE CONFUSED ABOUT IT? YOU COULD TELL US ACCURATELY?awn woarvauw 10 ce 12 3 14 15 16 WwW 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 A. DATE OR Q. A Q. NIGHT. Q. 84 WELL, I COULD TELL YOU, BUT I CAN'T TELL YOU THE WHAT HOUR AND ALL OF THAT. ALL RIGHT. I. REMEMBER WHEN. BUT I CAN'T -~ THE NIGHT THAT MOISES WAS SHOT, LET'S GO TO THAT YOU SAY SMOKEY WAS AT THE PARK. CORRECT? YES. YOU ALSO SAY SOME OTHER PEOPLE WERE THERE. RIGHT? YES. HOW ABOUT HEFTY, A GENTLEMAN NAMED HEFTY? WAS HE AT THE PARK THAT NIGHT? a YES. WHAT ABOUT CHUCK? WAS CHUCK AT THE PARK THAT YES. KNUCKLES, WAS HE AT THE PARK THAT NIGHT? YES. SCRAPPY, WAS HE AT THE PARK THAT NIGHT? YES. RACCOON WAS AT THE PARK? YES. TOKER WAS AT THE PARK? Yes. DO YOU KNOW ANYONE OF THOSE PEOPLE'S REAL NAMES? LET'S START WITH STONEY. DO YOU KNOW HIS REAL NAME? No.wor auenwne 10 uu 12 oe 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 eat 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 85 Q. DO YOU KNOW HEFTY'S REAL NAME? A. YES. Q. WHAT'S HIS REAL NAME? A. — GREGORY. Q. GREGORY WHAT? A. ROMAN, Q. DO YOU KNOW HIS LAST NAME? A. YES. Q. WHAT IS IT? ‘A. ROMAN HERNANDEZ. Q. GREGORY ROMAN HERNANDEZ? A. YES. Q. ARE YOU SURE IT IS NOT GREGORY ROMAN MENDOZA? A. OR MENDOZA. Q. IT IS NOT HERNANDEZ? YOU ARE CONFUSING HIM WITH JOSUE GUTIERREZ HERNANDEZ. AREN'T YOU? A. NO. Q. YOU'RE NOT? A. BECAUSE HIS NAME IS GREGORY ROMAN, I GUESS. WELL, WHEN I WAS LOCKED UP WITH HIM, THEY CALLED HIS LAST NAME. THEY CALLED HIM HERNANDEZ. Q. THEY DIDN'T CALL HIM MENDOZA? A. NO. WE WERE LOCKED UP TOGETHER, AND THEY USED TO CALL HIM BY LAST NAME HERNANDEZ. Q. YOU'RE SAYING THAT HEFTY IS A PERSON NAMED GREGORY ROMAN HERNANDEZ AND NOT GREGORY ROMAN MENDOZA. IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US? A. WELL, THAT'S WHAT I KNOW ABOUT -- WELL, WHEN WERwne warnanuw 10 a 2 13 4 1s 16 7 18 ae 20 21 7 23 24 25 26 27 28 86 WERE LOCKED UP, THEY USED TO CALL HIM HERNANDEZ NOT MENDOZA. Qa YOU'RE SURE YOU'RE NOT CONFUSING THIS GENTLEMAN WITH SOMEBODY ELSE? A Q. GREGORY A Q. AL Q. A Q. A YES. THERE IS SOMEBODY NAMED HEFTY. HIS NAME IS ROMAN HERNANDEZ. NO CONFUSION? YES. HOW ABOUT CHUCK. DO YOU KNOW HIS REAL NAME? No. DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE? YES. WHAT DOES HE LOOK LIKE? HE'S DARK. HE'S LIKE -- HE'S DARK AND BALD HEADED WITH GLASSES. Q. A SKIN IS HE WEARS GLASSES? YES. DOES HE KIND OF LOOK LIKE YOU? I DON'T KNOW. HE'S GOT A SIMILAR HAIRCUT TO YOU, DOESN'T HE? YES. SIMILAR SKIN TONE? I GUESS. WELL, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY SKIN TONE? THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN, ANDRES, THE COLOR. HIS SIMILAR TO YOURS? IT IS A LITTLE BIT DARKER. HE'S A LITTLE BIT DARKER THAN YOU? YES. SAME COLOR EYES?Carn anunrwune 10 nn 2 B 4 1s 16 7 18 19 20 ra 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 THAT 87 ‘A. I DON'T KNOW ABOUT HIS EYES. Q. OKAY. HOW ABOUT KNUCKLES? YOU KNOW KNUCKLES? A. YES. Q. D0 YOU KNOW HIS REAL NAME? A. YES. Q. WHAT'S HIS REAL NAME? A. RAUL. Q. RAUL WHAT? A. I DON'T KNOW. I JUST KNOW HIS FIRST NAME. Q. JUST RAUL? A. YES. Q. HOW ABOUT SCRAPPY? A. NO. Q. YOU DON'T KNOW HIS REAL NAME? A. NO. Q. RACCOON, WHAT'S HIS REAL NAME? A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. AND WHAT'S TOKER'S REAL NAME? A. I FORGOT HIS NAME. Q. | WHAT ABOUT TEMPER? WAS THAT PERSON AT THE PARK NIGHT? A. YES. Q. WHO IS TEMPER? A. FEMALE. Q. OKAY. WHAT'S HER NAME? A. EVELYN. Q. EVELYN WHAT? A. I DON'T KNOW HER LAST NAME.CaN nur une 10 nn 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 88 Q. WHAT DOES SHE LOOK LIKE? A. SHE IS SHORT AND LIGHT-SKINNED. . IS SHE ASIAN? HISPANIC? + HISPANIC. Q. SHE IS HISPANIC. DO YOU KNOW THE COLOR OF HER HAIR? A. WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT RIGHT NOW WHAT COLOR HER HAIR. Q. YOU DON'T KNOW IF SHE HAS CHANGED THE COLOR OF HER HAIR? A. YES. Q. DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE COLOR OF HER HAIR WAS THE NIGHT SHE WAS AT THE PARK? A. NO. Q. HOW ABOUT SOMEBODY NAMED LITTLE ONE? A. YEAH. Q. DO YOU KNOW LITTLE ONE? A. YES. Q. WAS SHE AT THE PARK? A. YES. Q. WHAT'S HER REAL NAME? A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. HOW WELL DO YOU KNOW THIS GROUP OF PEOPLE? A. WHAT DO YOU MEAN, "HOW WELL"? Q. HOW MANY TIMES DID YOU HANG AROUND IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD? A. ALOT. Q AND YOU NEVER GOT TO KNOW THEIR REAL NAMES?Car nunwne 10 i 12 13 4 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 89 No. DID YOU EVER ASK WHAT THEIR REAL NAMES WERE? NO, I NEVER ASKED THEM. YOU MUST HAVE ASKED HEFTY. RIGHT? No. YOU KNOW HIS NAME IS GREGORY ROMAN? BECAUSE I WAS LOCKED UP WITH HIM. AND THEY CALLED OUT HIS NAME? YES. AND YOU MUST HAVE ASKED KNUCKLES? No. HOW DID YOU KNOW HIS REAL NAME? BECAUSE HIS MOM USED TO CALL HIM RAUL. SO YOU KNOW HIS MOM? YES. HOW LONG HAVE YOU KNOWN KNUCKLES? FOR -- I DON'T KNOW, LIKE A YEAR, HALF A YEAR. TEMPER, YOU KNOW HER REAL NAME. HOW DO YOU KNOW HER REAL NAME? A Q A Q. I USED TO GO TO SCHOOL WITH HER. WHERE DID YOU GO TO SCHOOL WITH HER? WHEN I USED TO GO TO BAKER ELEMENTARY. JUST AFTER MOISES WAS SHOT, YOU TESTIFIED ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT YOU RAN DOWN THE ALLEY AND UP THROUGH THE HOUSES. CORRECT? MR, TROCHA: OBJECTION, MISSTATES HIS TESTIMONY. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: YES.eCarnaunrwne 10 nn 12 13 14 1s 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 90 MR. SPEREDELOZZI: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: SURE. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: ANDRES, YOU MARKED WITH A 1 AND A CIRCLE AROUND WHERE THE SHOOTING OCCURRED. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. WITH AN "A" YOU MARKED WHERE YOU WERE STANDING. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. YOU SAID YOU WERE TAKING A PISS BY THE BUSHES IN THE ALLEY? A. YES. Q. AND THEN WHEN YOU HEARD THE SHOTS, YOU TURNED AROUND AND LOOKED IN THE DIRECTION OF THE SHOOTING? A. YES. Q. AND THEN YOU RAN WHEN YOU HEARD THE SHOTS. YOU WERE OBVIOUSLY SCARED? A. YES. Q. SOMEBODY WAS SHOOTING? A. YES. Q. AND YOU RAN TOWARDS THE SHOOTING? A. WELL, NOT TOWARDS IT. I JUST -- YOU COULD SAY TOWARDS IT, BUT Q. WOULD YOU AGREE, ANDRES, THAT IF YOU TOOK OFF RUNNING FROM THE SPOT YOU MARKED ON THIS DIAGRAM, YOU WOULD HAVE TO RUN IN THE DIRECTION OF THE SHOOTING TO GET TO WHERE YOU TURNED RIGHT DOWN INTO THE DRIVEWAY. IS THAT RIGHT? A. YES.oarauneu ne 10 co 12 13 14 as 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 7 24 25 26 27 28 ay Q. WHY DIDN'T YOU RUN THE OTHER WAY? A. BECAUSE I WAS RIGHT THERE WHERE -- WITH THE SMALL KID. AND HE PULLED ME AND TOLD ME TO RUN THAT WAY BECAUSE I SEEN EVERYBODY RUNNING THROUGH THERE. Q. YOU WERE WITH A SMALL KID? A. YEAH. Q. YOU RAN THIS WAY? A. WE ALL RAN THAT WAY. Q. WHEN YOU WENT UP THE ALLEY HERE, WHAT DID YOU DO? A. WHEN WE RAN THAT WAY? Q. UH-HUH. ‘A. I WENT TOWARD THE SOURCE. Q. RIGHT AROUND THIS AREA HERE -- I'M REFERRING TO THE LINE THAT HAS BEEN PREVIOUSLY DRAWN THAT RUNS THROUGH THE DRIVEWAY. JUST, I GUESS, THAT WOULD BE EAST OF THE TREES AND EVENTUALLY HITS FRANKLIN. DID YOU RUN STRAIGHT ‘THROUGH? A. NO. I RAN STRAIGHT FRANKLIN. Q. STRAIGHT TO FRANKLIN? A. YEAH. Q. THEN YOU WENT DOWN FRANKLIN? A. YEAH. Q. AND YOU KEPT RUNNING? A. YEAH, Q. DID ANYTHING UNUSUAL HAPPEN IN THIS LOCATION? AGAIN, I'LL DESCRIBE THAT LOCATION FOR THE RECORD: WHERE THE LINE THAT ANDRES PREVIOUSLY DREW, WHERE HE RAN, WHERE IT HITS FRANKLIN, THE HOUSE JUST TO THE RIGHT ON THE DIAGRAM.Can nunwne 10 ce pe 13 14 ee) 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 92 DID ANYTHING HAPPEN IN THIS REGION, ANYTHING INTERESTING HAPPEN IN THAT REGION? A, WELL, ABOUT ME RUNNING THAT WAY? THE COURT: 00 YOU UNDERSTAND THE QUESTION? THE WITNESS: NO. THE COURT: THE WORD "REGION." I THINK -- MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I'LL TRY AND MAKE IT WORK. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. ANDRES, THIS HOUSE RIGHT HERE. A. YEAH. Q. WHEN YOU RAN AWAY, THE HOUSE JUST TO THE RIGHT OF THE LINE THAT WAS DRAWN PREVIOUSLY, DID ANYTHING HAPPEN IN THE YARD OF THAT HOUSE? A. NOT THAT I KNOW. Q. NOTHING? A. NOT THAT I KNOW, Q. OKAY. AFTER THE SHOOTING, YOU RAN AWAY WITH A LITTLE KID. RIGHT? A. YES. Q. WHO WAS IT? A. SPANKY. Q. AND ANYONE ELSE? A. WELL, THE OTHER ONES THAT WERE RUNNING IN FRONT OF ME. Q. OKAY. HOW ABOUT LITTLE SPANKY? IS THAT WHAT YOU A. YEAH, LITTLE SPANKY.eCarnauerwne 10 rey 12 a 14 1s 16 wv 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 93 Q. WHAT ABOUT SPANKY, NOT LITTLE SPANKY BUT SPANKY? A. YEAH. Q. YOU RAN WITH HIM, TOO? A. YES. Q. THERE ARE TWO PEOPLE -- AGAIN, THIS IS ANOTHER ISSUE OF PEOPLE. THERE ARE TWO PEOPLE. ONE IS NAMED ‘SPANKY? A. YES. Q. AND THE OTHER IS LITTLE SPANKY? A. YES. Q. WHAT IS LITTLE SPANKY'S NAME? A. CHRISTIAN. Q. IT IS CHRISTIAN? A. YEAH. Q. WHAT DOES HE LOOK LIKE? ‘A. HE'S SHORT AND KIND OF DARK. Q. HOW OLD IS HE? A. LIKE 12 oR 13, LIKE 14, 13. Q. YOUNGER THAN YOU? A. YES. Q. AND THEN THERE IS BIG SPANKY. RIGHT? A. YES. Q. OR JUST SPANKY? A. YES. Q. WHICH IS IT? A. SPANKY. Q. THEY DON'T CALL HIM LITTLE SPANKY? A. NO.Rwne warn anu 10 cen 12 13 14 15 16 7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 94 Q. WHAT'S HIS REAL NAME? A. I DON'T KNOW. WHAT DOES HE LOOK LIKE? . HE'S KIND OF SHORT AND DARK AND THAT'S IT. » HOW OLD IS HE? . I DON'T KNOW HOW OLD IS HE. HE'S LIKE 40, 30. HE'S OLDER THAN YOU? . YES. Q, A Q, A, Q, A Q. HE WAS AT THE PARK THAT NIGHT? AL YES. Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW HIS NAME IS SPANKY? A. WHOSE? BIG SPANKY'S? Q. YES, SPANKY. HOW DO YOU KNOW HIS NAME IS SPANKY? A. BECAUSE I MET HIM. Q. OKAY. AND DID HE RUN AWAY WITH YOU? A. YES. Q. SO IT WAS YOU, LITTLE SPANKY, AND SPANKY RUNNING A. YES. Q. DID YOU ALL RUN THAT SAME PATH THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT EARLIER? A. WELL, WE ALL SPLIT RUNNING TOWARDS THAT HOUSE. Q. WELL, I WANT TO KNOW WHO WAS RUNNING AWAY WITH You. A. IT WAS -- WHILE WE WERE RUNNING, IT WAS SPANKY, LITTLE SPANKY, AND ME. BUT SPANKY SPLIT. I DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY HE WENT; AND SPANKY, I DON'T KNOW WHERE HE WENT. AND I KEPT ON RUNNING. AT LAST I WAS BY MYSELF.RwnNeR wo arnanw 10 eel 12 2B 14 - 16 v7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 res 26 27 28 Le) Q. SO WHERE WAS SPANKY WHEN THE SHOOTING OCCURRED? A. WELL, HE WAS -- Q. I'M GOING TO CLARIFY THAT. I'LL STRIKE THE LAST QUESTION. I'M TALKING ABOUT LITTLE SPANKY. I APOLOGIZE. ANDRES, WHERE WAS LITTLE SPANKY WHEN THE SHOOTING OCCURRED? ‘A. HE WAS BY -~ HE WAS NEARBY ME BECAUSE HE'S THE ONE THAT TOLD ME TO RUN. Q. WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO MARK ON THAT DIAGRAM WHERE HE was? A. NO. I CAN'T BECAUSE WHEN I WAS PEEING, HE IS THE ONE THAT TRIED TO GRAB ME AND TOLD ME TO RUN. Q. OKAY. SO YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHERE HE WAS WHEN THE SHOOTING TOOK PLACE? A. NO. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I DIRECT THE COURT'S ATTENTION TO PAGE 95 OF THE PRELIMINARY HEARING TRANSCRIPT. THE COURT: I NEED TO GET IT. GO AHEAD AND READ. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. I'M READING YOUR TESTIMONY HERE, ANDRES, AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, AGAIN, WHEN YOU SWORE TO TELL THE ‘TRUTH. "QUESTION: WHERE WERE YOU STANDING WHEN YOU SAW THE SHOOTING IN RELATION TO SPEEDY? "ANSWER: LIKE SIX FEET AWAY. "QUESTION: SO I'M STANDING HERE IN THE COURTROOM TODAY. AM I CLOSER OR FARTHER AWAY?Cer nuneune 10 atl 2 1B 4 15 16 Ww 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 96 “ANSWER: LIKE THAT. “QUESTION: SO ABOUT 10 FEET? "ANSWER: YEAH. “QUESTION: FURTHER THAN THIS? “ANSWER: NO. KIND OF LIKE THAT, YEAH. "QUESTION: SO SOMEWHERE WITHIN THIS RANGE, 10 TO SIX FEET? “ANSWEI + YES. “QUESTION: ANYBODY BETWEEN YOU? "ANSWER: JUST SPANKY." YOU TESTIFIED THAT SPANKY WAS IN BETWEEN YOU AND THE SHOOTING. THAT'S WHAT YOU TESTIFIED TO AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING? A. YES. Q. SO AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING YOU WERE SAYING THAT, ESSENTIALLY, YOU KNEW WHERE SPANKY WAS AT THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING? A. WELL, WHICH ONE? LITTLE SPANKY OR SPANKY? Q. — SPANKY. A. WELL, YOU JUST TOLD ME LITTLE SPANKY. NOW YOU'RE TELLING ME SPANKY. Q. ALL RIGHT, ALL RIGHT. THAT'S FAIR. A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. WHERE WAS SPANKY AT THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING? A. WELL, SPANKY WAS NEAR THE TREES. Q. WHERE? A. WELL, RIGHT Q. COULD YOU MARK ON THAT DIAGRAM WHERE SPANKY WAS?Cananunrune 10 ce 12 13 14 i 16 7 = 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 a 28 97 LET ME GET A PEN FOR YOU. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR? THE COURT: YES. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: WE'VE BEEN USING -- ANDRES, FOR YOU. ANDRES. MR, TROCHA: HE HAS THE BLACK SHARPIE. THAT WORKS . MR. SPEREDELOZZI: FAIR ENOUGH. BY MR, SPEREDELOZZI: Q. IF YOU WOULD PUT AN S-P WHERE SPANKY WAS STANDING AT THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: LET THE RECORD REFLECT THE WITNESS HAS PUT AN S-P WITH A CIRCLE AROUND IT ON PROSECUTION'S EXHIBIT 1. THE COURT: OKAY. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. ANDRES, YOU JUST TESTIFIED ON DIRECT EXAMINATION THAT DURING THE SHOOTING YOU WERE TAKING A PISS BY THE BUSHES. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. AND YOU TURNED AROUND AFTER THE SHOOTING OCCURRED? A. YES. Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF THE LAYOUT OF THE PARK? A. HUH? Q. THE LAYOUT OF THE PARK, YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH IT. CORRECT? A. YES. Q. IN BETWEEN WHERE YOU MARKED AN “A" AND WHERE YOU