Condensate Pot for Pressure Transmitters Page 1 of 3

from the Design department...

Condensate Pot for Pressure Transmitters
Posted by Sukat on 9 April, 2010 - 4:16 am

I'm preparing a Hookup design of pressure transmitters for steam application. I checked my previous project
standards and some required condensate pot only for steam more than 30bar (400degC) to protect pressure sensor
with a design of 80degC max allowable temp. I checked some Steam Turbine generator (STG) and Boiler
vendor's hook-ups but they not at all recommend to use condensate pot (even for high pressure steam as high as
140bar).

Now, I am more convinced that condensate pot is not necessary for pressure transmitters because of the
temperature gradient effect, rule of thumb 1degC/mm at steady state (zero flow). So, if my sensor temp rating is
only 80degC, using the rule of thumb, I can tap it to steam line as high as 600degC with minimum 520mm of non-
insulated stainless tubing to get a temp drop of 520degC before the sensor.

Appreciate if anyone can share his/her thoughts on my understanding.

Thanks

Posted by instruguy on 17 April, 2010 - 12:02 pm

Hi

If you refer to ISA standard 77.42.01 ( Feed water control system -Drum level type) it shows a typical hook up
with condensate pot. I really doubt if you can cool steam from 600deg c to 80 deg c with @1.7feet( 520 mm)
impulse piping. Pl. refer to following guidelines for impulse lines for flow measurement. You can also refer to
ISO 2186.

http://www.idc-online.com/technical_references/pdfs/instrumentation /Differential%20pressure%
20meters_nel.pdf

Posted by Frank19842003 on 20 April, 2010 - 9:16 pm

For Steam applications is necessary to use condensate pots since it helps to equalize the differential pressure
transmitter (make a 0 differential pressure). the thing is that when you fill the two pipes to the + and - pressure
input, the level of the fluid will always be constant at the middle of the condensate pot (if there is more water in
one of the condensate pots than in the other the steam will vaporize it). with this condensate pot you guarantee
that the hydrostatic pressure of the conduit is the same in the positive and negative input of the DP Tx.

i can also tell you that as a rule of thumb, you can say that per every 1m of piping you cool down the process
pressure 100C approximately. thats true. So in other applications you can consider this in order to cool it
down or warm it up. however, in this applications with steam the condensate pots are a must.

I hope it helps.

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Condensate Pot for Pressure Transmitters Page 2 of 3

Posted by sukat on 26 June, 2010 - 4:55 am

Hi Frank,

thanks for your reply. I am referring only to pressure transmitter (not d/p), where balancing is not necessary.

In this case do I still need condensate pots?

I have seen varying designs and opinion on this:

I have at least 3 projects where pot is not used even for high pressure steam. In one other project, the client
required pot for high pressure (50bar and above) and medium pressure (6bar to 50bar) steam but not for low
pressure steam. In this case I think pot was used only for safety purposes, where during commissioning you
fill it with water before actually opening the isolation valve on your steam line whereby thermal shock is
eliminated in the pressure cells in you PTs'.

What is your opinion.

Thanks

Posted by Sam on 4 July, 2010 - 5:53 pm

Hi there,

Seems like all the replies so far are referring to ancient steam flow measuring techniques.

Just for information the following installation standard can be used for steam flow applications as well,
there is no need for these catch pots either in flow applications.

The impulse line can serve the same purpose as a catch pot so no need to use the catch pots on a steam
pressure or flow installation. The only difference is that the transmitter will be a bit further away from the
tapping point without a catch pot in the installation.

Think in terms of volume of liquid between the tapping point and the transmitter and you will see there is
no difference if you just make the impulse lines a bit longer. The impulse line only design, will actually cool
the condensed steam faster per meter than the pots due to overall volume per surface area contact with the
cooler environment.

The tapping point should be made to the side (10 or 2 o'clock) or preferably the top (upper quadrant - 12
o'clock) of the process line, and fitted with a suitable rated process isolation valve.

The pressure transmitter should be positioned well below the tapping point so that the impulse line will stay
filled with condensate while in service (same as wet-leg in a steam drum level application). A T-Piece must
be installed at the bend in the impulse line before it goes down to the transmitter for the purpose of filling. a
Suitable rated isolation valve must be installed pointing upward on the T-Piece, with a screwed plug on the
open end for safety purposes.

The distance of the impulse line from the tapping point down to the transmitter should be chosen to ensure
that adequate cooling occurs to prevent thermal damage to the transducer. Transmitter temperature rating as
well as steam possible max temperatures needs to be considered to calculate the length and not just the "rule
of thumb".

The impulse line MUST be filled with ambient temp water prior to start-up (putting transmitter online for

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Condensate Pot for Pressure Transmitters Page 3 of 3

the first time) to prevent possible thermal damage to the transducer by the live steam.

The original idea if the catch pot, a million years ago, in steam level, flow and pressure applications was to
form a thermal buffer between the steam and the transmitter and to keep the impulse line to the transmitter
filled to exactly the same level all the time. The T-Piece fitting instead of a catch pot, can do exactly the
same job. All you need to do is install the transmitter in some applications a bit lower down or further away
from the tapping points. The overall effect is exactly the same in level, flow and pressure steam
installations.

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