IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN DIEGO DEPARTMENT 37 BEFORE HON, JEFFREY F. FRASER, JUDGE THE PEOPLE OF THE STATE OF TRIAL CALIFORNIA, PLAINTIFF, vs. NO. SCD225579 FLORENCIO JOSE DOMINGUEZ, PAGE 1-214 DEFENDANT REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT GOPY FOR THE PEOPLE: BONNIE M. DUMANIS DISTRICT ATTORNEY BY: KRISTIAN TROCHA DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY 330 WEST BROADWAY SAN DIEGO, CA 92101 OCTOBER 19, 2010 APPEARANCES : FOR THE DEFENDANT: HULLINGER & SPEREDELOZZI BY: MATTHEW J. SPEREDELOZZI RETAINED COUNSEL 5752 OBERLIN DRIVE, SUITE 106 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA 92121 MONIQUE MINAHAN, CSR NO. 10818 OFFICIAL REPORTER SAN DIEGO SUPERIOR COURTCHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF WITNESSES OCTOBER 19, 2010 PEOPLE V. DOMINGUEZ CASE NO. SCD225579 WITNESSES MARTHA GASCA - PEOPLE'S WITNESS EXAMINATION BY MR. TROCHA GREGORY MENDOZA - PEOPLE'S WITNESS DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR, TROCHA MARTHA GASCA - PEOPLE'S WITNESS “DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. TROCHA CHRISTIAN AVITIA - DEFENSE'S WITNESS “DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. TROCHA MARTHA GASCA - PEOPLE'S WITNESS “DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. TROCHA CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI PAGE 41 49 60 67 71 76 147CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF EXHIBITS OCTOBER 19, 2010 PEOPLE V. DOMINGUEZ CASE NO. SCD225579 MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION: PAGE DEFENSE EXHIBIT N CORRECTED POWERPOINT 5 PRINTOUT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 3 MAP. 35 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 231 PHOTO 51 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 232 PHOTO 51 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 218 PHOTO 93 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 219 PHOTO 94 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 220 PHOTO 94 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 221 PHOTO 95 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 222 PHOTO 95 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 223 PHOTO 96 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 224 PHOTO 96 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 225 PHOTO 97 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 226 PHOTO 97 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 227 PHOTO 97 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 228 PHOTO 98 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO, 229 PHOTO 100 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 230 PHOTO 101 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 118 PHOTO 101 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 119 PHOTO 102 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 120 PHOTO 103 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 121 PHOTO 103 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 122 PHOTO 104 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 123 PHOTO 104 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 124 PHOTO 105 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 125 PHOTO 105 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 126 PHOTO 106 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 127 PHOTO 107 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 128 PHOTO 107 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 129 PHOTO 108 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 130 PHOTO 108 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 131 PHOTO 109 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 132 PHOTO 109 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 133 PHOTO 109 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 134 PHOTO 110 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 135 PHOTO 110 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 136 PHOTO 111 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 137 PHOTO 111 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 138 PHOTO ui PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 139 PHOTO 112 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 140 PHOTO 112 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 141 PHOTO 112 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 142 PHOTO 113 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 143 © PHOTO 113 PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 144 PHOTO 214CHRONOLOGICAL INDEX OF EXHIBITS (CONT.) MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION: PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT No. NO. NO. NO. OCTOBER 19, 2010 PEOPLE V. DOMINGUEZ CASE NO. SCD225579 145 146 147 148 149 216 217 233 234 235 236 PHOTO PHOTO PHOTO PHOTO PHOTO CERTIFIED PRIOR CERTIFIED PRIOR PHOTO PHOTO PHOTO PHOTO PAGE 114 114 115 116 116 119 121 135 136 137 138aw ne ear 4 4 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA, OCTOBER 19, 2010, 9:00 A.M. --000-- (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD OUTSIDE THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY.) THE COURT: ON RECORD OUTSIDE THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY. WHAT'S UP? MR. TROCHA: ONE OF THE JUVENILES, GREGORY ROMAN MENDOZA, IN THE STATEMENTS HE MADE TO THE POLICE AND TO THE DEFENSE INVESTIGATOR IS A LOT OF WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT EARLIER. THINGS THAT HE'S HEARD, RUMORS AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. MORE SPECIFICALLY, HIS STATEMENTS WERE THAT HE WASN'T IN THE PARK, AND THAT HE HEARD CERTAIN EVENTS TRANSPIRED AT THE PARK. IN ADDITION TO THAT, IN TALKING ABOUT ANDRES LOPEZ, WHICH IS, I THINK, ONE OF THE REASONS HE'S BEING CALLED BY THE DEFENSE, IS TO GIVE HIS PERSONAL OPINION OF ANDRES LOPEZ. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT, EXCEPT ONE OF THEM IS THAT HE SAYS HE HEARD FROM OTHER PEOPLE THAT ANDRES IS A HOOD-HOPPER. NOW, HE'S NEVER -- HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF THAT HIMSELF. AND THIS IS WHAT HE'S HEARD FROM ANOTHER PERSON WHILE IN THE JUVENILE RANCH FACILITY. THE COURT: THAT'S AN INTERESTING CHARACTER ASSASSINATION; THAT YOU DON'T SHOW THE LOYALTY TO ONE GANG THAT -- I'VE JUST NEVER HEARD THAT USED AS IMPEACHMENT. MR. TROCHA: IN TERMS OF I DON'T WANT HIM TALKING ABOUT THINGS HE DOESN'T HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF. IF HE'S JUST RETTERATING HEARSAY FROM OTHER PEOPLE, IT'S NOT HISOPINION. AND HE DOESN'T HAVE THE PROPER FOUNDATION TO FORM AN OPINION AT THAT POINT. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: MOSTLY, THE MORE IMPORTANT STUFF IS WHAT HE DOES HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF, WHICH IS WHAT ANDRES LOPEZ HAS LIED TO HIM ABOUT AND WHAT HIS OPINION IS, THAT ANDRES LOPEZ IS A LIAR. THE COURT: WELL, CERTAINLY YOU'RE ALLOWED TO GET INTO THAT, SO THAT'S NOT A PROBLEM. LET'S JUST PLAY BY THE RULES. AND IF HE WASN'T AT THE PARK, AND HE CAN'T OPINE ON ANYTHING AT THE PARK. WHAT WAS HEARD IS IRRELEVANT. HE CERTAINLY CAN GIVE HIS OPINION AS TO ANDRES LOPEZ'S CHARACTER FOR TRUTH OR VERACITY. MR. SPEREDELOZZ2I: HERE'S THE -- HERE'S THE ISSUE, IS THAT SOME OF THE THINGS HE'S HEARD FROM OTHER PEOPLE MAY LAY A FOUNDATION FOR AN OPINION ON ANDRES LOPEZ'S REPUTATION AS A LIAR. THE COURT: SUCH AS? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THAT HE MAKES STUFF UP ALL THE ‘TIME, THINGS OF THAT NATURE. THAT HE'S HEARD FROM OTHER PEOPLE IN THE JAIL, OUTSIDE IN THE -- AMONGST THE GANG, ‘THINGS LIKE THAT. THE COURT: SO HIS REPUTATION IN THE COMMUNITY IS THAT OF A LIAR? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: EXACTLY. AND, NOW, YOU KNOW, T DON'T KNOW IF THAT FOUNDATION IS GOING TO COME OUT BECAUSE, QUITE FRANKLY, I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING ON. BUT BEFORE I GET TO THE OPINION, IF I CAN'T LAY THE FOUNDATION, I WON'T TRY TO GET THE OPINION OUT. IF I DOwe ene we a9 10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 THINK I'VE LAID THE FOUNDATION, I WILL TRY TO GET THE OPINION OUT. SO I THINK THE RULING ON IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT HE'S GOING TO SAY. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THE OTHER ISSUE THAT I SHOULD BRING UP NOW IS THAT THIS WITNESS MAY BE A LITTLE BIT TROUBLESOME, IN THAT I THINK THAT HE COULD JUST BLURT STUFF OUT THAT WITHOUT BEING ASKED A QUESTION -- THAT MAY OR MAY NOT BE ADMISSIBLE, RELEVANT. THE COURT: IS HE HERE? LET'S BRING HIM IN AND LET HIM UNDERSTAND THE GROUND RULES OF WHAT'S GOING ON. NOT THAT -- PEOPLE BREAK RULES ALL THE TIME. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: MAYBE WE SHOULD TALK IN CHAMBERS . THE COURT: ABOUT? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE WITNESS THAT -- THE WITNESS: I'M NOT HERE TO TESTIFY. THE COURT: WE GOT THE WRONG GUY? MR. TROCHA: I DON'T RECOGNIZE THIS GUY. THE BAILIFF: HE'S THE ONLY JUVENILE OVER THERE. THE WITNESS: JULIO ALCAREZ. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THIS IS NOT THE WITNESS THAT I HAVE IN MIND. I DON'T KNOW THIS PERSON. NICE TO MEET YOU. THE WITNESS: NICE TO MEET YOU, TOO. THE COURT: THEY GOT THE WRONG GUY, AND HE'S ALL DRESSED UP NICE AND IN COURT WITH A TIE ON? ALL RIGHT. WELL, DO YOU KNOW WHY YOU'RE HERE? LET ME ASK YOU10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 THIS. ‘THE WITNESS: YES. MY 707 HEARING. THE COURT: THEY GOT THE WRONG GUY. WE'RE NOT DOING A 707 HEARING. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: IS THAT EVEN DONE IN THIS COURTHOUSE? THE COURT: YEAH. IF THEY GO LONGER THAN HALF A DAY, WE WILL DO A HEARING. SO, MATT, HE'S OBVIOUSLY -- THE BAILIFF: I'M GOING TO SEE IF WE CAN GET THE RIGHT GUY. THE COURT: WHO'S YOUR LAWYER? THE WITNESS: TANYA STARKWEATHER. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I KNOW HER, SHE'S JUVIE PUBLIC DEFENDER. THE COURT: TELL HER YOU CAME IN AND DROPPED US A VISIT. AND WHY DON'T WE SEND HIM BACK TO WHEREVER HE CAME FROM. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I GOT A LITTLE NERVOUS THERE FOR A SECOND. (THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD IN THE PRESENCE OF THE JURY.) THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING ON TIME. GOT OFF TO A LITTLE LATE START BECAUSE WE PRODUCED A WITNESS WHO WAS FOR ANOTHER CASE, SO THERE WAS A FOUL-UP. SO WE'RE GOING TO STAY WITH THE DA'S CASE.10 nn 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 MR. SPEREDELOZZI: YOUR HONOR, BEFORE WE CALL THE NEXT WITNESS, DO YOU MIND IF I JUST INTRODUCE AN EXHIBIT? THE COURT: ANY OBJECTION? MR. TROCHA: NONE. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT, THAT WILL BE RECEIVED. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THIS IS GOING TO BE DEFENSE EXHIBIT N. IT WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION -- IT IS THE CORRECTED POWERPOINT THAT WE LOOKED AT YESTERDAY. (DEFENSE EXHIBIT N, CORRECTED POWERPOINT PRINTOUT, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION. ) THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. NEXT WITNESS. MR. TROCHA: PEOPLE CALL DETECTIVE MARTHA GASCA. ‘THE COUR’ AND I BELIEVE THIS IS GOING TO BE THE DA'S LAST WITNESS? MR. TROCHA: THAT IS CORRECT. MARTHA GASCA, THE PEOPLE'S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS : THE CLERK: PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. THE WITNESS: MARTHA GASCA. LAST NAME, G-A-S-C-A. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. TROCHA: Q. GOOD MORNING, DETECTIVE GASCA. A. GOOD MORNING. Q. WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT ASSIGNMENT? A. A DETECTIVE WITH THE SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT, WITH THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO. Q. AND WHAT UNIT ARE YOU A DETECTIVE IN?WITH THE GANG UNIT. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A DETECTIVE WITH THE GANG TWO YEARS. A LITTLE BIT OVER TWO YEARS. WHAT DID YOU DO FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT PRIOR TO IN THE GANG UNIT AS A DETECTIVE? WHEN I FIRST STARTED, I STARTED OUT AS POLICE PATROL. THEN I MOVED -- I WAS ASSIGNED TO THE GANG SUPPRESSION UNIT, WHICH IS A UNIFORM -- IN UNIFORM, BUT WE'RE ASSIGNED TO A GANG UNIT. Q. AND HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN A POLICE OFFICER WITH SAN DIEGO PD? A. ELEVEN YEARS. Q. HOW LONG WERE YOU ON THE GANG SUPPRESSION UNIT? A. THE GANG SUPPRESSION UNIT I WAS FOR A LITTLE BIT OVER THREE YEARS. Q. AND HOW LONG WERE YOU IN PATROL? A, IN PATROL, FIVE YEARS. Q. LET'S START WITH PATROL. WHAT SECTION OF TOWN WERE YOU ASSIGNED TO PATROL? A. IT'S THE SOUTHEASTERN DIVISION IN THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO THAT COVERS FROM THE FREEWAY 15, ALL THE WAY TO THE LIMITS WITH LEMON GROVE, SPRING VALLEY, NATIONAL CITY, THE FREEWAY 54, AND TO THE NORTH WITH THE FREEWAY 94. THIS WOULD ENCOMPASS THE COMMUNITY OF SHELLTOWN? YES. WOULD IT ALSO INCLUDE LOGAN? No.10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Q. IT WOULD NOT INCLUDE LOGAN? A. IT WOULD INCLUDE A COUPLE BLOCKS THAT SOME LOGAN GANG MEMBERS HAVE CLAIMED AS A TERRITORY, BUT NOT WHAT IS KNOWN AS A LOGAN HEIGHTS. Q. NOT THE OFFICIAL CITY DESIGNATION OF THE COMMUNITY? A. CORRECT. YES. Q. WOULD IT INCLUDE SHERMAN OR SHERMAN HEIGHTS? A. NO. Q. WOULD IT INCLUDE PARTS OF NATIONAL CITY? No. NATIONAL CITY HAS ITS OWN POLICE DEPARTMENT? YES. A Q A Q. WOULD IT INCLUDE LINCOLN PARK AREA? ye Q. ‘THE SKYLINE AREA? A. YES. Q . AND PRETTY MUCH ALL COMMUNITIES IN AND AROUND THAT Ao ves. Q. | WHEN YOU MOVED ONTO THE GANG SUPPRESSION UNIT, WHAT PART OF TOWN DID YOU WORK IN? A. IN THE GANG SUPPRESSION UNIT, WHAT WE DO IS EVERY DAY WE'RE IN CHARGE OF THE WHOLE CITY. WE DO MOVE FROM ONE DAY TO, LET'S SAY SOUTHEASTERN DIVISION. WE'LL BE IN SHELLTOWN AREA FOR A COUPLE HOURS. THEN WE'LL MOVE TO LINCOLN PARK AREA, WE'LL MOVE TO ENCANTO. WE'LL MOVE TO DIFFERENT AREAS IN EACH DIVISION. WE'LL THEN MOVE TO MID CITY, UNIVERSITY AVENUE, EL CAJON BOULEVARD. WE'LL GO TOee ne 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 LINDA VISTA. THROUGH THE WHOLE -- DURING THE DAY WE'LL MOVE FROM ONE SITE TO ANOTHER SITE AND TRY TO COVER DIFFERENT SITES OF THE CITY. SOMETIMES WE'LL ASSIGN A WHOLE DAY, DEPENDING ON THE ACTIVITY OF -- THE GANG ACTIVITY IN THAT AREA. Q. WHAT WERE YOUR DUTIES ON THE GANG SUPPRESSION UNIT? A. OUR DUTIES ON THE GANG SUPPRESSION UNIT AS A UNIFORM -- WE'RE NOT JUST LIMITED AS GANG ACTIVITY. WE ALSO -- IF PATROL OFFICERS ARE BUSY, AND WE'RE THERE IN THAT DIVISION, WE MONITOR THEIR FREQUENCY. WE DO RESPOND TO RADIO CALLS, SPECIFICALLY, IF THEY ARE GANG-RELATED CALLS, INCLUDING -- FROM BEER RUNS TO STABBINGS, SHOOTINGS, HOMICIDES. AND WHEN WE'RE NOT RESPONDING TO RADIO CALLS, WE DO CONTACT GROUPS OF GANG MEMBERS OR INDIVIDUALS JUST WALKING AS CONSENT OR -- OR DURING A TRAFFIC STOP OR A PEDESTRIAN STOP. Q. WHY WOULD YOU JUST GO UP AND TALK TO PEOPLE? A. THAT'S A WAY FOR THE GANG SUPPRESSION UNIT TO GATHER INTELLIGENCE, TO SEE WHAT THE GANG MEMBERS ARE DOING, IF THEY'RE INVOLVED IN ANY ACTIVITY, GANG ACTIVITY. WE TALK TO THEM, WE ASK THEM IF THEY HAVE ANY SPECIFIC PROBLEMS WITH ANOTHER RIVAL GANG MEMBER AT THAT TIME. WE TALK TO THEM BECAUSE SOMETIMES DETECTIVES TELL US THAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE. SO WE'RE LOOKING -- ACTIVELY LOOKING FOR THAT PERSON THAT WAS POSSIBLY INVOLVED IN A CRIME. WE TALK TO THEM JUST TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING, WHAT THEIR ACTIVITIES, IF THEY'RE ACTIVE IN THE GANG, IF THEY'RE NOT ACTIVE ANYMORE. SOMETIMES THEY ARE VICTIMS OF CRIMES. SOMETIMES THEY'RE10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 SUSPECTS OF CRIMES, ALSO. Q. WILL THESE PEOPLE THAT YOU GO UP AND TALK TO -- SUSPECTED GANG MEMBERS -- ADMIT TO BEING A MEMBER OF A CERTAIN GANG? A. YES. Q. WILL THEY ALSO DENY BEING A MEMBER OF A CERTAIN GANG? A. YES. Q. DO THEY HAVE NICKNAMES? A. YES. Q. AND IS THERE A CERTAIN TERM THAT YOU CALL NICKNAMES IN YOUR LINE OF WORK? A, WE CALL THEM MONIKERS. WHEN WE ASK THEM WHAT YOU GO BY, DIFFERENT WAYS OF ASKING THEM ABOUT THEIR -- TRYING TO FIND OUT THEIR NICKNAMES. Q. A MONIKER COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE SLEEPY OR DOPEY, OR SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES? A. YES. MONIKERS COULD BE ANYTHING FROM A NICKNAME THAT WAS GIVEN TO THAT SPECIFIC PERSON FROM A FAMILY THAT HAS STUCK WITH HIM AND NOW BECAME A GANG MEMBER, AND HE STILL HAS THAT NAME. A MONIKER ALSO COULD BE SOME -- A NAME THAT WAS PASSED ON FROM A FATHER WHO WAS A GANG MEMBER, AND NOW HE'S LITTLE WOOFY, INSTEAD OF BEING WOOFY, WHEN HIS FATHER WAS WOOFY. OR WOOFY 2, IF HIS BROTHER WAS A GANG MEMBER ALSO. THERE'S DIFFERENT WAYS THEY ACQUIRE THE MONIKERS AND NICKNAMES. Q. DID YOU HAVE TO UNDERGO SPECIALIZED TRAINING OR CLASSES IN ORDER TO BECOME A MEMBER OF THE GANG SUPPRESSION10 a2 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 10 ‘TEAM? A. I DIDN'T HAVE TO. I DID -- AFTER I GRADUATED FROM THE ACADEMY, I DID HAVE A SPECIAL INTEREST ON GANGS, AND I ATTENDED DIFFERENT TRAININGS ON GANGS. Q. DID THEY COVER GANGS AT THE ACADEMY? i YES" Q. IN WHAT KIND OF DETAIL? A. DURING THE ACADEMY IT IS GENERAL ABOUT THE GANG LIFE, THE STRUCTURE OF THE GANGS. WHEN -- AND THEY COVER, ALSO, THE GANG THAT WE HAVE IN THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO, SPECIFICALLY. Q. WHAT SORT OF SPECIALIZED TRAINING DID YOU RECEIVE, IN ADDITION TO THE ACADEMY, SPECIFICALLY IN THE AREA OF GANGS? A. IN THE AREA OF GANGS, I HAD TAKEN DIFFERENT CLASSES HERE IN SAN DIEGO. DIFFERENT AGENCIES -- BY THE DEA, FBI, OTHER -- OTHER POLICE AGENCIES. NATIONAL CITY, EL CAJON, LA MESA. PROBATION, PAROLE AGENCIES. I HAVE TAKEN, ALSO, TRAINING THAT'S BEING PUT OUT BY OTHER AGENCIES IN OTHER STATES -- NEVADA, FLORIDA. I HAVE ATTENDED TRAINING THAT HAS BEEN PUT OUT BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS. AND THOSE ARE SPECIFIC -- THE ONES THAT ARE HERE IN SAN DIEGO, THOSE ARE A SPECIFIC GANG TRAINING FOR THE GANGS IN THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO. Q. AND THE ONES THAT ARE OUTSIDE SAN DIEGO ARE MORE DEALING WITH STATEWIDE GANG ISSUES OR NATIONWIDE GANG ISSUES? A. FOR THE MOST PART, YES. IF YOU DO HAVE A CASE THAT WAS GANG-RELATED, AND YOU WANT TO PRESENT THAT CASE IN ONE OF10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 12 THOSE DIFFERENT STATES OR DIFFERENT COUNTIES OF CALIFORNIA, YOU'LL GO AND TALK ABOUT THAT SPECIFIC CASE. BUT THEY WILL NOT SPECIFICALLY TARGET THOSE SPECIFIC GANGS IN THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO. Q. DID YOU RECEIVE ADDITIONAL TRAINING PRIOR TO OR DURING YOUR TIME AS A DETECTIVE IN THE GANG UNIT? A, ADDITIONAL TRAINING? Q. CORRECT. A, WITH SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT? Q. CORRECT. A. YES. I DO HAVE -- WE HAVE WHAT IS CALLED POST TRAINING IN THE ACADEMY. AND WE DO HAVE -- PERIODICALLY GO TO ATTEND FOUR HOURS TO UPDATE TRAINING, UPDATE INFORMATION WHEN IT COMES TO GANGS. Q. WHILE ON THE GANG SUPPRESSION TEAM AND ON THE GANG UNIT AS A DETECTIVE, DO YOU HAVE PERIODIC MEETINGS AMONGST YOUR FELLOW OFFICERS? A, YES, IN THE GANG UNIT WE DO HAVE A MEETING EVERY DAY. EVERY DAY WE HAVE A MEETING WITH THE GANG SUPPRESSION -- AS A DETECTIVE NOW WITH THE GANG SUPPRESSION ‘TEAM, THE UNIFORMED OFFICERS AND ALL THE DETECTIVES THAT WORK OUR UNIT. IN OUR UNIT WE WORK -- DETECTIVES THEY ARE ASSIGNED TO THE BLACK GANGS, DETECTIVES THAT ARE ASSIGNED TO ASIAN GANGS, DETECTIVES THAT ARE ASSIGNED TO HISPANIC GANGS. AND, ALSO, WE HAVE A UNIT THAT IS SPECIFICALLY ASSIGNED TO THE GRAFFITI THAT INVOLVES ALL THE GANGS IN THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO. EVERY DAY WE DO HAVE -- AT 2:00 WE HAVE A MEETING.10 11 12 13 14 as 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 a2 DURING THOSE MEETINGS WE DISCUSS INCIDENTS THAT HAPPENED THE NIGHT BEFORE, DURING THE WEEKEND, OR DURING THOSE DAYS OFF THAT OFFICERS HAVE, WE'LL TELL THEM IF WE ARE LOOKING FOR SOMEONE, IF WE HAVE PERSONS PEOPLE OF INTEREST ON A CASE, IF WE NEED A FOLLOW-UP FOR THEM TO ASSIST US. AND OFFICERS WILL ALSO COMMUNICATE IF THEY KNOW THERE IS SPECIFIC ACTIVITY THAT WE NEED, AS DETECTIVES, TARGET IN THAT AREA, SPECIFIC AREA, THE CITY. Q. YOUR ROLE AS A DETECTIVE -- YOU MENTIONED ONE THING WAS GATHERING INTELLIGENCE, WHICH WAS THE SAME AS ON THE GANG SUPPRESSION TEAM; CORRECT? A. YES. Q. DO YOU ALSO WORK CASES? A. YES. Q. HOW DO YOU -- HOW DOES YOUR ROLE IN WORKING CASES -- WHAT IS IT? A. WHEN -- THE WAY I GET ASSIGNED CASES, I ASSIGN TO -- I MONITOR THE RADIO, IF I HAPPEN TO MONITOR THE RADIO, AND I HEAR THERE IS A STABBING, A SHOOTING IN AN AREA THAT INVOLVES MY GANG SET, I WILL RESPOND. ALSO RESPOND TO ASSIST OTHER DETECTIVES WHEN THEY RESPOND TO THOSE SPECIFIC INCIDENTS. IF I, FOR SOME REASON, AM NOT MONITORING THE RADIO, I GET PHONE CALLS FROM THE SERGEANTS, THE OFFICERS THAT WORK THOSE AREAS. THEY KNOW THAT I'M ASSIGNED TO THAT SPECIFIC AREA, AND THEY'LL GIVE US A CALL AND LET US KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON, AND WE'LL RESPOND TO THOSE. ON A REGULAR -- IF, FOR SOME REASON, I DO NOT RESPOND TO THOSE INCIDENTS, I DO GET THE FOLLOWING DAY -- ONCE THE OFFICERS IN THE FIELD10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 13 HAVE TAKEN THE REPORTS, THEY GET ASSIGNED. IF IT'S A GANG-RELATED CASE, THEY GET ASSIGNED TO THE GANG UNIT. IF IT'S A FELONY, FOR THE MOST PART, WE DO TAKE -- MOST, FOR THE MOST PART, ARE FELONIES. I DO GET ASSIGNED THAT CASE, AND I START WORKING WITH THAT CASE. I HAVE WORKED CASES THAT ARE NOT MY SPECIFIC GANG SET ASSIGNED TO, BUT IT'S JUST AS AN ASSISTING OTHER OFFICERS -- OTHER DETECTIVES WITH THEIR CASES. Q. CURRENTLY, WHAT GANG SET OR GANG SETS ARE YOU ASSIGNED TO? A. RECENTLY, ABOUT THREE WEEKS AGO, I MOVED FROM THE ‘TEAM WHERE I WAS ASSIGNED -- TO SHELLTOWN GAMMA AND MARKET -- TO LOGAN HEIGHTS, LOMAS, AND SHERMAN. AND THOSE ARE -- I'M CURRENTLY WORKING THOSE SPECIFIC GANGS RIGHT NOW. Q. WHY DID YOU GO FROM THE SHELLTOWN MARKET GANGS TO THE LOGAN SETS? A. THERE IS TWO DETECTIVES THAT GOT -- THEY WERE MOVED FROM THE GANG UNIT. ONE WENT TO A ROBBERY UNIT, ANOTHER WENT TO INTELLIGENCE UNIT. THEY HAVE THOSE -- THOSE GANG SETS, THEY'RE VERY, VERY BUSY IN THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO. AND THEY NEEDED SOMEBODY TO GO AND HELP THEM WITH THOSE CASES. SO I MOVED FROM MY CASE -- MY TEAM TO THAT TEAM. Q. HOW LONG WERE YOU WORKING SHELLTOWN PRIOR TO THAT? A. I WAS CLOSE TO TWO YEARS. Q. NOW, IN TERMS OF GATHERING INTELLIGENCE IN YOUR LINE OF WORK, YOU SAID IT'S -- IT COMES PRIMARILY FROM TALKING TO PEOPLE ON THE STREETS? A. YES.Q. AND DOES IT ALSO COME FROM INVESTIGATING CASES? A. YES, Q. | WHAT ABOUT OTHER SOURCES OF INTELLIGENCE THAT -- THAT YOU CAN THINK OF? A. I DO RECEIVE INFORMATION FROM JAILS. FROM JAILS, PHONE CALLS ARE MONITORED. WE DO LISTEN TO THOSE CONVERSATIONS ON SPECIFIC CASES OF SPECIFIC GANG MEMBERS THAT WE'RE INTERESTED IN THEIR CONVERSATIONS. IF WE BELIEVE THEY ARE INVOLVED IN CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, I DO READ MAIL, LETTERS THEY EXCHANGE FROM ONE GANG MEMBER TO ANOTHER GANG MEMBER. I DO RECEIVE INFORMATION FROM OFFICERS OUT IN THE FIELD THAT WILL TELL ME, I BELIEVE THIS PERSON IS DOING THIS, THIS, AND THAT. IF YOU WANT TO -- HERE HE IS. I TALK TO HIM, HE'LL SAY THIS. I'LL TALK TO THOSE OFFICERS. INFORMATION FROM PROBATION OFFICERS ABOUT WHAT THAT PROBATIONER OR THAT PERSON ON PAROLE ARE DOING. AND THEY'LL LET US KNOW THAT THIS PERSON MIGHT BE INVOLVED WITH CERTAIN CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. ALSO, FROM WIRE COMMUNICATIONS, WHERE WE MONITOR PHONE CALLS. SEARCH WARRANTS. WHEN WE DO -- DO A SEARCH WARRANT AT A HOUSE, I REVIEW PAPERWORK, GRAFFITI, LETTERS. ANYTHING THAT IS INVOLVED WITH A GANG. ALSO, DURING -- INVESTIGATING A CRIME. IF THAT PERSON HAS -- SOMETHING IDENTIFIED THEM AS A GANG MEMBER, I REVIEW THOSE. EITHER IT'S LETTER, PAPERS, GRAFFITI, CLOTHING, TATTOOS. THERE'S A VARIETY OF THINGS THAT LED US TO GATHER THAT INTELLIGENCE ON A SPECIFIC PERSON. Q. | WHAT ABOUT FAMILY MEMBERS OF GANG MEMBERS? ‘A. FAMILY MEMBERS. FAMILY MEMBERS, WE INTERVIEW10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 15 FAMILY MEMBERS SOMETIMES WHEN THE GANG MEMBERS BECOME VICTIMS OF A CRIME. SOMETIMES THEY'RE SUSPECTS OF A CRIME, AND WE TALK TO FAMILY MEMBERS. IT COULD BE A NONCUSTODIAL OR CUSTODIAL OF THEIR RELATIVES. Q. WHAT ABOUT INFORMANTS? A. INFORMANTS, ALSO, WE HAVE -- WE DEVELOP INFORMANTS. INFORMANTS ARE CONFIDENTIAL INDIVIDUALS THAT WE KEEP -- THAT WORK FOR US. THOSE INDIVIDUALS, MANY OF THOSE -- MANY TIMES ARE ACTIVE GANG MEMBERS IN THOSE -- IN THEIR GANG. AND THEY DECIDED, FOR SOME REASON, THAT THEY DON'T AGREE -- ALWAYS AGREE WITH EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN THAT GANG. AND THEY WILL GIVE US INFORMATION ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN THOSE GANGS, AND WE KEEP THAT AS A SECRET. WE ASSIGN A NUMBER TO THOSE PERSONS, AND WE -- WE DON'T DISCOVER (SIC) THEIR IDENTITY. Q. WHAT ABOUT INTERNET SITES, SUCH AS MYSPACE OR FACEBOOK? A. ‘THOSE ARE RESOURCES THAT WE USE IN THE GANG UNIT. A LOT OF PEOPLE HAS NOWADAYS -- AND ESPECIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE WEB SITES, ONE BEING MYSPACE. AND MYSPACE NOT ALWAYS IS CONFIDENTIAL OR PRIVATE OR RESTRICTED. SO I DO LOG ONTO -- LET'S SAY IF I'M INVESTIGATING SOMETHING IN SHELLTOWN. I LOG ON AND TRY TO -- YOU KNOW, WITH DIFFERENT SIGNS, SYMBOLS THAT I KNOW THAT ARE ASSOCIATED TO THAT SPECIFIC GANG. I WILL TRY TO LOG ON AND FIND WEB SITES THAT ARE RELATED TO THAT SPECIFIC GANG. IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED ON MARKET STREET, I'LL TRY DIFFERENT WAYS OF FINDING PEOPLE THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH MARKET STREET AND DO FIND16 GANG MEMBERS THAT I RECOGNIZE PHOTOS OF THEM. I SEE ON THE SITES THEY HAVE GRAFFITI. LET'S SAY WE HAD A SHOOTING, AND I DON'T KNOW WHO COULD BE A RIVAL WITH ONE OF THOSE GANGS. IF I -- SOMETIMES I FIND THAT IN THEIR WEB SITES THEY HAVE CROSSED A RIVAL GANG MEMBER. SO THAT WILL GIVE ME A LEAD TO START LOOKING AT SOME OTHER GANGS THAT IT COULD BE -- POSSIBLY HAVE SOMETHING GOING ON AT THAT TIME. Q. FOR MAYBE SOME PEOPLE IN THE COURTROOM THAT DON'T KNOW WHAT MYSPACE OR FACEBOOK IS, WHAT ARE THESE SITES? A. THESE SITES -- I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON THOSE WEB SITES EITHER, BUT THESE WEB SITES IS A WEB SITE THAT YOU CAN CREATE AN ACCOUNT. AND YOU CAN ENTER PICTURES OF YOURSELF, PICTURES OF YOUR FRIENDS. YOU CAN EITHER ENTER YOUR NAME OR A MONIKER OR A SIGN OR SYMBOL THAT YOU WANT TO ASSOCIATE WITH. AND YOU LOG ON, AND YOU CREATE A PASSWORD. SOMETIMES YOU -- AND YOU HAVE FRIENDS. THEY HAVE THE SAME -- LET'S SAY ON MYSPACE YOU HAVE OTHER FRIENDS THAT IS -- THAT HAS A MYSPACE ACCOUNT AND REQUESTS TO BE MY FRIEND. AND I SAY, YES, I WANT TO BE FRIENDS WITH YOU BECAUSE I KNOW YOU, OR FOR UNKNOWN REASONS THEY'RE FRIENDS. ONCE YOU HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS -- AND THEY SHARE, THEY TALK, THEY COMMUNICATE THROUGH MESSAGES, TYPING. WHEN THEY'RE NOT PRIVATE, I, AS A DETECTIVE, AM ABLE TO GO TO THOSE SITES AND READ WHAT THEY'RE ‘TYPING AND ALSO ABLE TO GO AND LOOK AT THEIR FRIENDS AND SEE WHAT PICTURES THEIR FRIENDS HAVE OR, YOU KNOW, WHO ARE THE FRIENDS WITH THIS PERSON. Q. ARE THERE DIFFERENT LEVELS OF PRIVACY YOU CAN SET UP ON MYSPACE?10 cee 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 17 A. YES. Q. IS THERE SOME LEVELS WHERE YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING AT ALL, IF YOU'RE NOT A MEMBER? A. YOU CAN ONLY SEE THE -- THE PROFILE OF THE PERSON. THE PICTURE, IF THERE IS A PICTURE, THAT HE PUT OF HIMSELF ON THE -- I WILL SAY, LIKE, THE FRONT PAGE OF THAT WEB SITE. AND YOU CAN SEE MAYBE HIS AGE, HE PUT HIS AGE, THE TOWN OR ‘THE COMMUNITY WHERE HE LIVES OR A GANG WHERE HE CLAIMS. Q. DO YOU HAVE A MYSPACE ACCOUNT? A. I HAVE A FAKE MYSPACE ACCOUNT. Q. SO YOU CAN SET UP FAKE MYSPACE ACCOUNTS? A. YES. Q. HOW WOULD YOU -- HOW'D YOU GO ABOUT SETTING UP YOURS? A. I DIDN'T SET UP MINE, WE HAVE AN INVESTIGATOR -- ASSISTANT INVESTIGATOR IN OUR UNIT. AND SHE'S A VERY YOUNG LADY WHO KNOWS HOW TO WORK ALL THESE WEB SITES. AND SHE CREATED AN ACCOUNT WITH A FAKE NAME AND A VERY ATTRACTIVE, YOUNG-LOOKING GIRL AND PORTRAY -- YOU KNOW, I PRETEND I AM THIS PERSON. AND I GO TO WEB SITES AND TRY TO BE FRIENDS WITH SOME OF THE GANG MEMBERS THAT I WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING. AND IF THEY ADMITTED ME OR THEY AGREED TO BE MY FRIENDS, THEN I'M ABLE TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE -- WHAT -- THEIR PHOTOS AND OTHER STUFF THAT THEY HAVE. Q. SO, ESSENTIALLY, UNDER YOUR ACCOUNT YOU COULD POST ANYTHING YOU WANTED UNDER THAT ACCOUNT? A. YES. Q. HAVE YOU SEEN SITES WHILE INVESTIGATING CERTAIN10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 18 PEOPLE, CERTAIN GANG SETS, WHERE YOU FORMED YOUR OWN OPINION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS A LEGITIMATE ACCOUNT OR A LEGITIMATE SITE SET UP BY A SPECIFIC PERSON? MR. SPEREDELOZZ: : OBJECTION. FOUNDATION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I'M NOT -- I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON THE COMPUTER, WHEN IT COMES TO THE COMPUTERS AND WEB SITES OF THAT NATURE. BUT I BASE MY OPINION ON THE PICTURES THAT I SEE. IF I RECOGNIZE THESE GANG MEMBERS, THAT I KNOW THEM BECAUSE I HAVE TALKED TO THEM, BECAUSE I SEE THEIR PICTURES, I HAVE RESPONDED TO ARREST, OR WHEN THERE HAVE BEEN VICTIMS OF CRIMES, AND I KNOW -- I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH THEIR FACES. I CAN RECOGNIZE THEM AND KNOW THAT -- OH, THAT'S SO-AND-SO. YES. OH, HE GOES BY -- GOES BY -- LET'S SAY HAPPY. OH, HE GOES BY HAPPY. I KNOW HAPPY, AND I KNOW THAT'S HIS FACE. AND I KNOW THAT'S HIS PICTURE, AND I KNOW THAT THESE ARE HIS FRIENDS. AND I RECOGNIZE A BACKGROUND ON A PICTURE, AND I KNOW WHERE THOSE HOUSES ARE BECAUSE I HAVE WORKED THIS AREA FOR ALMOST TEN YEARS. AND, SO, I KNOW THIS AREA, AND I MIGHT BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE THOSE HOUSES. SO I DO -- THAT MAKES ME BELIEVE THAT THAT IS A REAL PERSON AND IT IS A REAL PICTURE OF HIM AND THOSE ARE HIS -- HIS FRIENDS. BY MR, TROCHA: Q. HAVE YOU ALSO SEEN OR ENCOUNTERED PHONY PAGES WHERE, SAY, A RIVAL SET IS MAKING FUN OF ONE OF THEIR RIVALS AND SET UP A FAKE PAGE? A. I DON'T KNOW IF THEY HAVE SET UP FAKE PAGES, BUT I HAVE SEEN WHEN THEY POST A RIVAL -- LET'S SAY LOGAN HEIGHTSwe orau 10 rey 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 19 AND SHELLTOWN ARE RIVAL GANGS. AND THEY ARE RIVAL GANGS. I HAVE SEEN WHERE MEMBERS OF LOGAN HEIGHTS HAD CROSSED OUT SHELLTOWN ON THEIR OWN WEB SITES, AND AS A RETALIATION, THEN, SHELLTOWN CROSS OUT LOGAN. AND THEY DO STUFF, AND THEY CALL EACH OTHER NAMES. AND THAT'S BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT EVERYBODY CAN SEE THOSE WEB PAGES. Q. SO WOULD THIS BE AN EXTENSION OF WHAT WOULD HAPPEN ON THE STREETS, JUST OVER THE INTERNET? A. YES. Q. IN TERMS OF YOUR OTHER DUTIES AS A GANG DETECTIVE NOW, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH A PROCESS CALLED DOCUMENTATION? A. YES. Q. WHAT IS DOCUMENTATION? A. DOCUMENTATION IS -- IT'S A WAY OF KEEPING RECORDS OF A SPECIFIC PERSON -- A SPECIFIC GANG MEMBER THAT WE KNOW IS INVOLVED IN CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. WE CREATE A FILE OF THAT PERSON, AND WE PUT IN THAT FILE ARREST REPORTS, FIELD INTERVIEW REPORTS THAT ARE DONE BY OFFICERS OR DETECTIVES, INTERVIEWS THAT ARE DONE IN JAIL, PAPERWORK THAT WE HAVE SEIZED ON -- COPIES OF PAPERWORK THAT WE HAVE SEIZED ON SEARCH WARRANTS, LETTERS THAT COME FROM A PERSON. ANY DOCUMENT THAT SHOWS ME THAT THIS PERSON IS ACTIVELY INVOLVED IN A GANG, THAT WILL GO INTO THEIR FILE. Q. BEFORE WE GET DEEPER INTO THIS, YOU MENTIONED SOMETHING CALLED A FIELD INTERVIEW REPORT. WHAT IS A FIELD INTERVIEW REPORT? A. A FIELD INTERVIEW REPORT, IT IS A LITTLE FORM -- I WISH I HAD BROUGHT ONE HERE. IT'S A -- IT LOOKS LIKE A20 TICKET. AND IT'S A REPORT -- IT'S A FORM. IT HAS THREE COPIES. OFFICERS HAVE A BOOKLET OF THOSE FORMS. EVERY TIME -- OR MOST OF THE TIMES THAT AN OFFICER TALKS TO A PERSON, WE'LL WRITE DOWN THE NAME. AND IT STARTS WITH THE HEADING OF THE FORM WITH THE DEPARTMENT THAT HE'S WITH, BECAUSE WE ALSO -- SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT, EL CAJON POLICE DEPARTMENT, AND NATIONAL CITY, CHULA VISTA -- MANY OTHER AGENCIES USES THE SAME FORM. SO WE DO PUT SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT IN THIS CASE, THE DATE OF THE CONTACT, THE TIME OF THE CONTACT, THE LOCATION WHERE I'M TALKING TO THIS PERSON, THE LAST NAME, THE FIRST NAME, THE MIDDLE NAME, THE PHONE NUMBER, AN ALIAS, AKA NAME, OR A MONIKER, THE ADDRESS OF THE PERSON, THE BIRTH DATE, THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY, THEIR DRIVER'S LICENSE NUMBER, AND DESCRIPTION OF THE PERSON. THE HEIGHT, WEIGHT, COLOR OF HAIR, COLOR OF BYES, RACE, AND SEX. WE ALSO INCLUDE THE CLOTHING DESCRIPTION, VEHICLE DESCRIPTION, YEAR, MAKE, MODEL, DOOR, COLORS, AND LICENSE PLATE, COMPANIONS. AND FOR THE COMPANIONS WE ONLY HAVE SPACE FOR THE NAME, LAST NAME, BIRTH DATE, AND DESCRIPTION. AND WE ALSO HAVE ANOTHER BOX IN THAT FORM THAT IS CALLED THE POTENTIAL CRIME. THAT DOESN'T NECESSARILY MEANS THAT IF AN OFFICER WRITES THERE 245 -- 245, WHICH IS THE CODE FOR -- THE PENAL CODE SECTION FOR ASSAULT WITH DEADLY WEAPON. THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THAT PERSON IS GUILTY OF AN ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON. THAT ONLY MEANS THAT MAYBE THAT OFFICER WAS INVESTIGATING AN ASSAULT WITH DEADLY WEAPON AT THAT DAY WHEN HE TALKED TO THE PERSON. AND HE -- AND THAT'S THE CRIMEwe wana 10 ce 12 a3 a4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 POTENTIAL FOR THAT CONTACT. AND THEN WE HAVE A COUPLE LINES FOR A NARRATIVE. THAT OFFICER WILL WRITE DOWN THE REASON FOR THE STOP, WHAT THE PERSON SAID, IF HE SAID SOMETHING, OR WHAT THE -- THE OFFICER OBSERVED AT THAT TIME WHEN HE STOPPED OR CONTACT THIS PERSON. IF THERE'S A CONSENT -- A LOT OF THE TIMES OFFICERS WALK UP TO A PERSON AND ASK HIM IP THEY CAN TALK TO HIM. THEY'LL WRITE "CONSENT." IF IT'S A TRAFFIC STOP, THEY'LL WRITE IT'S A TRAFFIC STOP. ON THE VERY BOTTOM OF THE FORM WE HAVE CHECK BOXES WHERE IT'S A SHORT HAIR -- HAIRSTYLE, PACIAL HAIR, WHETHER IT'S WEARING GLASSES OR -- JUST ADDITIONAL INFORMATION OF PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION OF THE PERSON. AND THE LAST LINE IS THE NAME OF THE OFFICER AND HIS ID. Q. WHAT HAPPENS TO THESE FIELD INTERVIEW CARDS OR FORMS? A, ONCE THOSE FIELD INTERVIEW CARDS ARE TURNED IN AT THE END OF THE DAY BY THAT POLICE OFFICER AT EACH STATION, THERE IS ONE PERSON ASSIGNED TO THOSE FIELD INTERVIEWS. THE FIELD INTERVIEWS GET SORTED BY EITHER NARCOTIC-RELATED PEOPLE, MIGHT BE GANGS, MIGHT BE CHILD MOLESTERS, MIGHT BE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE PERSON INVOLVED. DIFFERENT -- AUTO THEFT. DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF THOSE. THOSE PILES OF FI'S WILL GO -- THE ONES THAT GO TO GANGS WILL BE SENT TO GANG UNIT. THE ONES THAT GO FOR AUTO THEFT WE'LL SEND TO THE AUTO THEFT UNIT. IN THE GANG UNIT WE HAVE A SECRETARY WHO READS THE NAME. AND IF SHE IS FAMILIAR WITH THAT SPECIFIC PERSON ORTHE AREA WHERE THIS PERSON WAS CONTACTED, WILL GIVE IT TO THE SERGEANT. THE SERGEANT WILL GO OVER THOSE FI'S AND WILL GIVE THEM TO ME IF THERE ARE PERSONS THAT THEY BELIEVE ARE INVOLVED IN SHELLTOWN, MARKET, OR OF THOSE GANGS THAT I MONITOR. SO EVERY DETECTIVE GETS FI'S FROM EVERYWHERE IN THE crry. Q. AND, THEN, HOW DO THOSE FI'S WORK IN WITH THE DOCUMENTATION PROCESS? A, NOW, ONCE THEY GET TO ME, I DO REVIEW THOSE FI'S. FI IS JUST SHORT FOR FIELD INTERVIEW. I REVIEW THOSE FI'S, AND I SEE THAT I MIGHT KNOW THIS PERSON, JOSE LOPEZ OR JOSE TORRES. AND I KNOW AND I'M FAMILIAR WITH JOSE TORRES. I DO SEE THAT JOSE TORRES WAS WITH JUAN PEREZ. AND JUAN PEREZ IS ALSO A MEMBER OF ONE OF THE GANGS THAT I MONITOR. AND I SEE THAT THEY WERE DRINKING BEER IN A CAR, AND THEY CLAIMED SHELLTOWN, AND THEY HAVE SOME GRAFFITI WITH THEM. THAT -- THAT FI I WILL KEEP FOR THAT PERSON'S FILE, AND I PUT IT IN THEIR FILE. IF THAT PERSON IS SOMEONE THAT I NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT, AND I DON'T KNOW WHO THAT IS, BUT IT HAS TATTOOS THAT IDENTIFY HIM AS A MEMBER OF THAT SPECIFIC GANG, I WILL DO RESEARCH AND SEE IF HE HAS BEEN CONTACTED BEFORE, IF HE HAS CLAIMED, IF HE HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN A GANG-RELATED ACTIVITY. AND I FIND THAT THIS PERSON -- FOR SOME REASON I HAVEN'T -- I DON'T KNOW HIM, BUT HIS NAME CAME ACROSS, AND I SEE THAT HE DOES HAVE A LOT OF CONTACTS, AND HE'S AN ACTIVE PERSON. AND I DO HAVE A CRITERIA THAT I HAVE TO FOLLOW IN ORDER TO DOCUMENT THAT PERSON AS A GANG MEMBER, IF I DO HAVE ENOUGHew oe weranu 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 23 CRITERIA, THEN I WILL GO AND DOCUMENT HIM AS A GANG MEMBER. Q. WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE DOCUMENTED AS A GANG MEMBER? A. IN ORDER TO DOCUMENT A PERSON AS A GANG MEMBER, WE HAVE TO FOLLOW REGULATIONS. IN THIS CASE, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE HAS A LIST OF CRITERIA. IN ORDER FOR US TO DOCUMENT SOMEBODY, HAS TO MEET THAT CRITERIA. SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT -- EXCUSE ME. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE REQUIRES TWO CRITERIA OUT OF A LIST OF CRITERIAS. SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT REQUIRES THREE CRITERIAS. SOME OF THE CRITERIA INCLUDES A PERSON THAT ADMITS THAT HE IS A GANG MEMBER; THE PERSON ASSOCIATES WITH ANOTHER GANG MEMBER; THE PERSON FREQUENTS THE AREA KNOWN TO BE GANG AREAS; THE PERSON HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN A GANG CRIME -- A GANG-RELATED CRIME; THE PERSON HAS SPECIFIC TATTOOS THAT IDENTIFY HIM AS A MEMBER OF THAT OR AFFILIATED WITH THAT GANG; THE PERSON HAS CLOTHING, COLORS, GRAFFITI, BELT BUCKLES THAT HAD INITIALS. IN THIS CASE, IT WILL BE FOR SHELLTOWN, AN ST. AND HIS NAME IS JUAN PEREZ, SO THOSE ARE NOT HIS INITIALS. HE MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING ELSE WITH THE COLORS OF THE CLOTHING. AND, ALSO, ONCE A CRITERIA THAT IS -- ONCE A PERSON IS BOOKED INTO JAIL, THEY GET INTERVIEWED BY A DEPUTY IN JAIL. IF THEY, DURING THAT CLASSIFICATION INTERVIEW, THEY CLAIM THEY BELONG TO A SPECIFIC GANG BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE -- OR SEPARATED FROM A RIVAL GANG FOR THEIR OWN PROTECTION, AND THEY SAID, I'M AFFILIATED OR I AM A MEMBER WITH SUCH-AND-SUCH GANG, THE OFFICER CONDUCTS OR FILLS IN ANweve 10 qr 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 24 INTERVIEW FORM. AND I DO RECEIVE THOSE. AND ONE OF THOSE ARE -- IS A SINGLE CRITERIA THAT QUALIFIES THEM AS ONE OF THE CRITERIAS IN ORDER TO DOCUMENT THEM. Q. ONCE A GANG MEMBER BECOMES OFFICIALLY DOCUMENTED, IS THERE A WASHOUT PERIOD WHERE THEY CAN BECOME UNDOCUMENTED AT SOME TIME? A. YES. LET'S SAY THAT PERSON THAT I DOCUMENTED TODAY, I MONITOR HIM FOR THE NEXT FIVE YEARS. AND IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY ACTIVITY. I HAVE TO PURGE HIM FROM THE SYSTEM. I HAVE TO DESTROY EVERY SINGLE THING THAT I HAVE IN HIS FILE. I HAVE TO LET THE PERSON IN CHARGE OF KEEPING RECORDS OF -- KEEPING TRACK OF THE RECORDS AND FILES -- THAT THAT PERSON IS NOT AN ACTIVE PERSON, AND THAT WE NEED TO PURGE THAT PERSON. AND WE'LL SHRED EVERYTHING ON HIM. Q. IN TERMS OF WHEN A PERSON BECOMES DOCUMENTED AS A GANG MEMBER, ARE THEY SENT A LETTER OR GIVEN A CERTIFICATE, OR DO THEY EVEN KNOW? A. NO. A LOT OF THE GANG MEMBERS DO NOT KNOW THEY ARE DOCUMENTED AS A GANG MEMBER WITH THE POLICE DEPARTMENT. THE ONLY TIME THEY DO GET A -- NOT EVEN -- THEY DON'T GET A PHYSICAL, ACTUAL RECEIPT, BUT WE DO GIVE THEM A RECEIPT, SENT TO THE PROBATION OFFICER OR PAROLE AGENT, IS WHEN THEY ARE ORDERED BY THE COURT UNDER PENAL CODE. AND THAT'S WHEN THEY COME OUT OF PRISON OR THEY COME OUT OF JAIL BECAUSE THEY WERE INVOLVED IN A GANG-RELATED CRIME. ONCE THEY COME OUT, A JUDGE WILL SAY, YOU HAVE TO GO AND REGISTER WITH THE AGENCY THAT YOU LIVE IN AS A GANG MEMBER. SO THEY HAVE TEN DAYS,i wera 10 cee 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 ONCE THEY GET RELEASED FROM JAIL, TO COME TO OUR GANG UNIT AND REGISTER WITH US. AND THAT'S WHEN THEY KNOW THEY ARE REGISTERED AS A GANG MEMBER. Q. IT WOULD ONLY BE IN THAT SITUATION? A, THAT WOULD ONLY BE. BUT, ALSO, DOESN'T REALLY -- IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THAT THAT PERSON -- JUST BECAUSE HE CAME AND REGISTERED DOESN'T MEAN THAT HE'S GOING TO BE A DOCUMENTED GANG MEMBER. BECAUSE A PERSON CAN BE A GANG MEMBER FROM NATIONAL CITY WHO LIVES IN THE CITY OF SAN DIEGO AND COMMITTED A CRIME IN NATIONAL CITY AND IS A GANG MEMBER FROM OVER THERE. I DO NOT MONITOR THOSE, AND I'M NOT GOING TO DOCUMENT SOMEBODY THAT I'M NOT ASSIGNED TO. HE LIVES IN MY CITY, AND HE NEEDS TO REGISTER WITH SAN DIEGO POLICE DEPARTMENT. HE WILL BE REGISTERED, BUT HE CANNOT BE DOCUMENTED. Q. COULD ANYBODY OUTSIDE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT ACCESS DOCUMENTATION FILES? A. NO, THOSE FILES ARE KEPT IN OUR UNIT, AND THEY ARE A SEPARATE ROOM THAT IS LOCKED, AND ONLY DETECTIVES HAVE A KEY TO IT. AND THAT'S WHERE WE KEEP ALL THOSE FILES. Q. SO THIS ISN'T, LIKE, THE MEGAN'S LAW DATABASE, WHERE THE PUBLIC COULD PULL UP AND SEE WHERE SEX OFFENDERS OR, IN THIS CASE, GANG MEMBERS ARE LIVING? A, NO, NOBODY HAS ACCESS TO IT. Q. IS EVERY GANG MEMBER IN SAN DIEGO DOCUMENTED? A. NO. Q. WHY NoT? A. WELL, WE HAVE -- WE HAVE A LOT OF GANG MEMBERS AND,sown 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 26 UNFORTUNATELY, WE DON'T HAVE AS MANY DETECTIVES. BUT, ALSO, NOT EVERYBODY CLAIMS TO BE A GANG MEMBER. NOT EVERYBODY GETS CAUGHT WHEN THEY COMMIT GANG-RELATED CRIMES. WE DON'T KNOW EVERY SINGLE PERSON. SOMETIMES THE FIRST TIME I COME IN CONTACT WITH THE PERSON THAT HAS BEEN A GANG MEMBER FOR YEARS IS WHEN HE BECOMES A VICTIM OF A GANG-RELATED CRIME. AND THAT'S THE FIRST TIME THAT I EVER SEEN OR KNOW OF HIM. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO DOCUMENT EVERY SINGLE PERSON AS A GANG MEMBER. Q. IN YOUR EXPERIENCE IN DEALING WITH GANG MEMBERS IN SAN DIEGO, DO GANG MEMBERS TRY OR WANT TO GET DOCUMENTED? A. NO. Q. WHY NOT? A. THEY -- THEY DO NOW KNow THAT -- MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. ‘THE WITNESS: THEY DO KNOW NOW THAT BEING A GANG MEMBER, IF THEY COMMIT A GANG-RELATED CRIME, THEY HAVE A POTENTIAL TO HAVE AN INCREASE ON THE SENTENCING IF THEY GET CONVICTED OF A CRIME. BECAUSE IT WAS COMMITTED FOR THE BENEFIT OF THAT SPECIFIC GANG, THEY MIGHT HAVE AN ADDITIONAL TERM OF SENTENCE. SO THEY'LL TRY TO STAY, YOU KNOW, QUIET ABOUT THEIR GANG ISSUES. THEY WILL NOT LET EVERY OFFICER KNOW THAT THEY ARE GANG MEMBERS. THEY ALSO DO NOT WANT THE ATTENTION OF THE POLICE OFFICERS. THEY BELIEVE THAT IF THE OFFICERS KNOW THAT THEY'RE GANG MEMBERS, THEY'RE GOING TO BE TARGET OR THEY'RE GOING TO BE CONSTANTLY HARASSED BY OFFICERS.we rae 10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 BY MR. TROCHA: Q. ARE YOU AWARE OF ANY GANGS IN SAN DIEGO WHICH REQUIRE A GANG MEMBER TO BE DOCUMENTED IN ORDER TO JOIN THE GANG? A. OH, NO. Q. IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? A. I NEVER HEARD OF THAT. I DON'T THINK SO. Q. I MEAN, IN TERMS OF BECOMING DOCUMENTED, ONE WOULD HAVE TO BECOME A GANG MEMBER FIRST; CORRECT? A. CORRECT. Q. IN TERMS OF TRYING TO KEEP THEIR AFFILIATION FROM THE POLICE, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH CERTAIN PHRASEOLOGIES, SUCH AS, “I USED TO KICK IT WITH," OR, "MY HOMIES KICK IT WITH," THINGS OF THAT NATURE? A. YES. THERE IS DIFFERENT WAYS THAT GANG MEMBERS CLAIM. THEY DON'T USE THE WORD "CLAIM." THAT WORD IS MORE OFFICIAL, MORE PROPER WAY OF SAYING IT. SOME OF THE SLANG THEY USE IS TO SAY, "YEAH, I KICK IT WITH, YOU KNOW, MARKET STREET. I -- I HANG OUT WITH MARKET STREET. MY HOMIE'S FROM MARKET STREET. YEAH, I GREW UP ON MARKET STREET, AND MY HOMIES ARE FROM OVER THERE. I BACK UP MY HOMIES FROM MARKET STREET." DIFFERENT WAYS OF SAYING -- AS TELLING US THEY ARE PART OF THAT GANG WITHOUT TELLING US, "YES. I AM A GANG MEMBER, AND I'M DOCUMENTED.” OR -- SOMETIMES THEY SAY, "I'M DOCUMENTED," YOU KNOW. “I'M DOCUMENTED WITH SUCH-AND-SUCH." AND SOMETIMES THEY TAKE PRIDE OF IT. SOMETIMES THEY JUST WANT TO KEEP IT LOW. SOMETIMES THEY'RE IN FRONT OF OTHER GANG MEMBERS, AND10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 28 THEY WANT TO SHOW THAT THEY'RE NOT AFRAID TO TELL THE POLICE OFFICER THEY'RE GANG MEMBERS. THEY'LL TELL THE OFFICERS. “YEAH, I CLAIM SHELLTOWN," YOU KNOW. SOMETIMES WHEN THEY'RE -- YOU SEE THAT ONE DAY THE SAME PERSON GETS CONTACT, AND ONE DAY HE WILL SAY, "NO. I'M NOT A GANG MEMBER." AND THE NEXT DAY HE MIGHT BE WITH SOME FRIENDS -- SO SOME GIRLS OR SOMEBODY -- AND -- OR BY HIMSELF, AND HE JUST DECIDES TO ‘TELL THAT OFFICER THAT, YES, HE IS A GANG MEMBER. IT HAS A LOT TO DO WITH HOW HE FEELS, WHAT HE THINKS, THE REASONS THAT HE MIGHT BE CONTACTED. IT MIGHT BE BECAUSE HE WAS INVOLVED ON A TRAFFIC STOP, OR IT MIGHT BE THAT HE WAS INVOLVED IN A CRIME, AND HE DOESN'T WANT TO SAY IT, AND THE NEXT DAY, WHEN HE KNOWS THAT NOTHING'S GOING TO HAPPEN, HE MIGHT BE -- HE MIGHT SAY IT. SOMETIMES IT'S THE OFFICER. THE OFFICER MIGHT NOT HAVE THAT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE GANG MEMBER, AND THE GANG MEMBER DOESN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE TELLING THAT OFFICER THAT HE'S A GANG MEMBER. Q. IN TERMS OF THE GANGS IN SAN DIEGO THEMSELVES, THE OVERVIEW, HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE THE -- THE STRUCTURE OR ORGANIZATION OF THE STREET GANGS LOCALLY? A, NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE IN GANGS. ESPECIALLY GANGS VARY FROM ONE GANG TO ANOTHER, THE WAY THEY CONDUCT THEIR BUSINESS. THEY FOLLOW SOME TRADITIONALS. IN SPECIFIC, HISPANIC GANGS, THEY DO FOLLOW SOME TRADITIONAL RULES. BUT THE ACTIVITIES ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT FROM NATIONAL CITY TO SAN DIEGO, FROM THE AREA OF SOUTHEASTERN DIVISION TO THE AREA OF MID CITY, EAST SIDE, AND UNIVERSITY AVENUE. GANGS ARE TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN THE ONE THAT WE HAVE IN LOGAN HEIGHTSsw ee werxrau 10 1. 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 OR SHELLTOWN. THEY DO HAVE -- ONE OF THE RULES OR THINGS THAT THEY DO HAVE -- MOST OF THEM HAVE IN COMMON IS THEY HAVE RESPECT, THEY FOLLOW -- THEY RESPECT THE SENIOR GANG MEMBERS. THEY DO HAVE -- THE CRIMES THEY'RE USUALLY INVOLVED IN. THEY HAVE RULES NOT TO TALK -- NOT TO SNITCH, NOT TO COOPERATE WITH POLICE OFFICERS, NOT TO TELL, NOT TO BECOME -- NOT -- NOT TO BECOME VICTIMS. NOT TO SHOW THEMSELVES AS A VICTIM. EVEN IF THEY HAVE BEEN SHOT AT, THEY DON'T WANT -- THEY DON'T WANT US TO DO ANYTHING. THEY DON'T WANT US SOMETIMES TO HELP THEM, THEY SAY, "OH, NOTHING. I DON'T WANT YOU TO DO ANYTHING. I CHOSE TO DO THIS. LEAVE IT TO ME. I DON'T WANT ANYTHING." THEY DON'T WANT TO BE PORTRAYED AS VICTIMS. THEY'RE CLOSE, THEY'RE TIGHT. THEY RESPECT. AND RESPECT FOR A GANG IS EQUAL -- TO THEM EQUALS FEAR. THE MOST YOU'RE FEARED, THE MOST RESPECTED THAT YOU ARE, THE HIGHER STATUS THAT YOU HAVE AMONG THE COMMUNITY, RIVAL GANG MEMBERS, AND THE MEMBERS OF YOUR OWN GANG. Q. HOW DOES ONE EARN RESPECT WITHIN THE GANG SUBCULTURE? A. USUALLY BECAUSE THEY EQUATE RESPECT TO FEAR AND INTIMIDATION. FEAR, INTIMIDATION IS ACCOMPLISHED BY VIOLENCE. THE MORE VIOLENT THAT YOU ARE, THE MORE WELL-RESPECTED THAT YOU FEEL. IF YOU GO AND DO A CRIME, AND THAT CRIME IN NATURE IS A VERY VIOLENT CRIME, YOUR PEERS ARE GOING TO SEE YOU AS A PERSON THAT YOU HAVE NO FEAR, AND YOU'RE CRAZY. AND YOU WANT TO DO THIS, AND YOU DID IT, AND YOU DIDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT. AND THEY'LL SEE THAT IN YOU,es eve 10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 30 AND THEY'LL -- YOU EARNED RESPECT AMONG THE GANG. THE GANG ITSELF BENEFITS FROM THOSE CRIMES AND THOSE ACTIVITIES THAT THEY COMMIT. AND ONE OF THE REASONS BEING IS BECAUSE THOSE CRIMES, FOR THE MOST PART, ARE COMMITTED ON THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES. THE CITIZENS OF THOSE COMMUNITIES SEE THE CRIMES THAT THEY ARE COMMITTING, THAT THE GANG MEMBERS ARE INVOLVED IN. THEY'RE AFRAID TO CALL THE POLICE. THEY'RE AFRAID TO REPORT GANG ACTIVITY. THEY -- WHEN THEY BECOME VICTIMS, THEY'RE AFRAID TO COME TO COURT AND TESTIFY. THEY'RE AFRAID OF RETALIATION. THEY'RE AFRAID THAT, YOU KNOW, IF I CALL THE POLICE, THE POLICE IS GOING TO COME AND KNOCK ON MY DOOR ONCE THEY DON'T FIND THE PERSON. THEY -- A LOT OF TIMES SAYS, “POLICE, DON'T COME AND KNOCK ON MY DOOR, THEY CAN CALL ME ON THE PHONE, BUT DO NOT CONTACT. I DON'T WANT OFFICERS AT MY HOUSE." GANG MEMBERS KNOW THAT. GANG MEMBERS KNOW THAT IF THEY COMMIT A CRIME IN FRONT OF THE CITIZENS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY, THOSE CITIZENS, IF THEY GIVE THEM A LOOK, THEY'RE GOING TO INTIMIDATE THEM. AND THOSE CITIZENS MIGHT HESITATE ON CALLING THE POLICE OR IDENTIFY THEM AS, YES. HE WAS THE ONE WHO DID IT. Q. IN TERMS OF RESPECT, THIS BOTH WORKS WITHIN THE GANG ITSELF, WITHIN THE COMMUNITY THEY OCCUPY, AS WELL AS WITH THE RIVALS? A. YES. THE WORD'S OUT. AND EVERY TIME SOMEBODY COMMITS A CRIME, RIVAL GANG MEMBERS KNOW ABOUT IT. THEY HEAR ABOUT IT. AND THE MOST VIOLENT THIS GANG IS, THE RIVAL GANG _| MEMBER IS GOING TO KNOW THAT. THEY'RE GOING TO KNOW THAT10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 31 THIS GANG HAS A STRUCTURE, THEY ARE RESPECTED, THEY HAVE A LOT OF GANG MEMBERS. IT'S A LARGE QUANTITY OF GANG MEMBERS, IT'S A LARGE GANG. THEY KNOW THAT THEY TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS. THEY'RE NOT PLAYING AROUND. OBVIOUSLY, THE RIVAL GANG MEMBER WILL TRY TO DO THE SAME AND WILL TRY TO COMPETE. AND THAT'S HOW WE HAVE THESE WAR OF GANGS. COMPETING FOR REPUTATION, COMPETING FOR POWER, COMPETING FOR CONTROL, TERRITORY. Q. IN TERMS OF THE RESPECT AND HOW IT INFLUENCES THE STRUCTURE OF A GANG, IS THERE A HIERARCHY WITHIN THE GANG, BASED UPON RESPECT? A. YES. Q. WHAT IS THAT HIERARCHY? A, LET'S SAY THIS GANG JUST STARTED. THIS -- THE FOUNDERS OF THESE GANGS ARE PROBABLY NOW OLDER OR THEY'RE PROBABLY EITHER DEAD OR THEY DON'T EXIST ANYMORE. BUT THEY ARE THE ONES THAT CAME AFTER THEM AND THE ONES THAT CAME AFTER THEM. AND THOSE ARE THE ONES, THEY HAVE NOW THE POWER TO CONTROL ALL THESE YOUNGSTERS THAT WANT TO BECOME GANG MEMBERS. THEY ARE THE ONES THAT EITHER AGREE WITH WHAT THESE YOUNGSTERS ARE DOING. THE GANG MEMBERS, THEY ARE THE MORE ACTIVE WAY OF PUTTING IN WORK TO REPRESENT THAT GANG. IF THEY DON'T AGREE -- IF ONE OF THE OLDER GUYS DON'T AGREE WHAT THEY ARE DOING, THEY'LL BE TOLD NOT TO DO IT. “KNOCK IT OFF. WE'RE NOT DOING THAT." IF THEY DO WANT THEM TO DO SOMETHING, THAT WORD COMES DOWN. AND THOSE YOUNGER GANG MEMBERS KNOW WHAT THEY NEED TO BE DOING AND WHAT THEY'RE NOT TO BE -- NOT TO BE DOING.10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 32 Q. LET'S FOCUS ON THE UPPER TIER OF THE HIERARCHY. WHAT TERMS HAVE BEEN -- HAVE YOU HEARD OR THAT YOU KNOW OF THAT DESCRIBE THE UPPER TIER? A. THEY CALL THEM ORIGINAL GANGSTERS, OR 0G'S, EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT AS ORIGINAL AS A 60-YEAR-OLD PERSON NOW THAT PROBABLY WAS ONE OF THE FOUNDERS ON THE SPECIFIC GANG. BUT TO THE -- THE SECOND LEVEL OF MEMBERS IN THAT GANG, THOSE ARE, FOR THEM, THE OG'S. THOSE ARE THE ONES, FOR THEM, TO -- THE ONES THAT THEY RESPECT. THE ONES THAT THEY SEE AS THEY'RE ABOVE AND THE ONES THAT ARE IN CHARGE. THE ONES THAT HAVE THE KEYS TO THAT COMMUNITY. THE ONES THAT HAVE THE KEYS TO THAT GANG. THE ONES THAT DECIDE WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. ‘THE ONES THAT WILL BE -- THEY REPRESENT. THE ONES THAT EVERYBODY WANTS TO KNOW AND BE KNOWN BY. BECAUSE IF THEY GET CALL -- CAUGHT, AND THEY GO TO PRISON, THE MORE LIKELY THEY'RE GOING TO THROW OUT NAMES. "OH, WELL, I KNOW SO-AND-SO, SO-AND-SO." SO THEY DO FOLLOW THE RULES, AND THEY DO WANT TO BE ON GOOD TERMS WITH THOSE HIGHER-UP GANG MEMBERS. Q. THE HIGHER-UPS, DO THEY ALSO GO BY OTHER NAMES, SUCH AS SHOT-CALLER, STREET BOSS, HEADS? A. OH, YES. THOSE ARE ALL SLANGS THAT THEY CAN BE CALLED. Q. HAVE YOU HEARD THE TERM FOR A LOWER ECHELON MEMBER TO BE CALLED, LIKE, A YOUNGSTER? A. YES. Q. DOES A YOUNGSTER REFER TO THEIR AGE? HOW LONG THEY'VE BEEN IN THE GANG? A COMBINATION OF BOTH? OR WHAT IS33 THAT? A. A YOUNGSTER CAN BE A NEW GANG MEMBER, SOMEBODY THAT IS RECENTLY BECOMING A GANG MEMBER. AND IT USUALLY HAPPENS AROUND 14, 15 YEARS OLD. SOMETIMES, YOU KNOW, 17, A LITTLE BIT OLDER. BUT USUALLY YOU'LL SEE THEM AROUND 15 YEARS OLD, 14 YEARS OLD, TRYING -- YOU KNOW, DOING -- PUTTING IN WORK IN ORDER TO BE ACCEPTED, IN ORDER TO SHOW THAT THEY CAN BE A GANG MEMBER, AND THEY CAN STAND UP TO THE HIGHER -- THE -- WHAT THIS GANG REQUIRES. SO THE OLDER GUYS WILL CALL THEM YOUNGSTERS. THOSE ARE THE YOUNGSTERS. NOT NECESSARILY -- IT 11 | COULD BE AN 18-YEAR-OLD THAT IS JUST NEW TO THAT GANG, YOU 12] KNOW, IS STILL HANGING OUT WITH THESE NEWER GUYS AND DOESN'T 13 | HAVE THE STATUS TO BE HANGING OUT OR TO LEVEL HIMSELF AS ONE 14 | OF THE 0G'S YET. SO THEY WILL BE CALLED GANGSTERS -- 15 | YOUNGSTERS. SORRY. 16 Q. WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS HIERARCHY, AND WE'RE 17| TALKING ABOUT RULES, IS THERE A SET ORGANIZATION, SUCH AS, 1g] LIKE, PRESIDENT, VICE-PRESIDENT, TREASURER, THINGS LIKE THAT? 19 A. THAT'S DIFFERENT. THERE ARE GANGS THAT ARE LIKE 20| THAT. AND OUTLAW MOTORCYCLE GANGS, THEY ARE STRUCTURED LIKE 21| THAT. THEY DO HAVE A PRESIDENT, THEY HAVE A VICE-PRESIDENT, 22 A SECRETARY, A TREASURER. IN HISPANIC GANGS WE DON'T HAVE 23 | THAT. WE DON’T HAVE A SECRETARY, WE DON'T HAVE A PRESIDENT. 24 | WE DON'T HAVE ONE -- JUST ONE PERSON THAT RUNS THE WHOLE 25 | GANG. WE'LL HAVE THE OLDER GUYS THAT HAVE THE SAY, OR THE 26 | SHOT-CALLERS OF THAT GANG, BUT IT'S NOT JUST ASSIGNED TO ONE 27 PERSON. IT MIGHT BE ONE PERSON THAT IS THE MOST ACTIVE AMONG 28 THOSE OLDER GUYS THAT HAS MORE SAY. BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 THAT HE HAS THE ABSOLUTE POWER TO DO SOMETHING. Q. IS THERE A WRITTEN CONSTITUTION ASSOCIATED WITH THESE GANGS? DO THEY HAVE, LIKE, A HANDBOOK OF RULES OR ANYTHING? A. NO. I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THAT. Q. THAT WOULD BE MORE TOWARDS, SAY, THE OUTLAW MOTORCYCLE GANG TYPES? A. OR ONCE IT MOVES TO PRISON GANGS, THEY DO HAVE -- UNDER MEXICAN MAFIA, THEY DO HAVE A SET OF RULES THEY HAVE TO OBEY. Q. IN TERMS OF GANG STRUCTURE, ARE GANGS TERRITORIAL WITHIN SAN DIEGO? A. VERY TERRITORIAL. Q. IS THAT THE PRIMARY WAY OF IDENTIFYING WHO THESE GANGS ARE? A. YES. Q. IN TERMS OF TERRITORY, IS THAT WHAT A LOT OF THE ALTERCATIONS BETWEEN SETS ARE OVER AS WELL? a Yes" Q. WITHIN A CERTAIN TERRITORY -- LET'S USE SHELLTOWN FOR AN EXAMPLE. SHELLTOWN HAS A SET BOUNDARY; CORRECT? A. YES. Q. WHAT IS -- WHAT ARE THE BOUNDARIES OF SHELLTOWN? A. 10 THE SOUTH IS A LIMIT WITH NATIONAL CITY. TO THE WEST IS THE FREEWAY 15. TO THE EAST IS NATIONAL CITY. BUT BECAUSE THE THE WAY THE STREETS RUN, IT'S NOT JUST ALL THE WAY TO NATIONAL CITY. NATIONAL CITY WILL BE TO THE EAST ON ONE PART, BUT ALSO RUNS UP TO WHAT TRADITIONALLY WAS 43RDsw ne aw 10 1 12 13 14 1s 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 35 STREET. I HAVE LEARNED, IN THE LAST TWO YEARS THAT I'VE BEEN WORKING WITH SHELLTOWN -- I HAVE DIFFERENT CRIMES THAT HAVE OCCURRED UP TO 47TH STREET. AND I HAVE GANG MEMBERS THAT HAVE -- THAT ARE TELLING ME THAT THAT IS PART OF THE TERRITORY, AND THAT WE HAVE CRIMES THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH SHELLTOWN WHERE THEY HAVE CLAIMED UP TO 47TH STREET TO THE EAST SIDE. TO THE NORTH WE HAVE IMPERIAL AVENUE AND -- OH, TO THE WEST, 15, I ALREADY SAID. Q. WITHIN THIS SORT OF SQUARE, ARE THERE SUBSETS OF SHELLTOWN? A, IT'S NOT A SUBSET OF SHELLTOWN, BUT YEARS AGO, WHEN THE GANG GREW OLD -- BIGGER, THEY DIVIDED INTO TWO PARTS; THE NORTH SIDE OF SHELLTOWN AND THE SOUTH SIDE OF SHELLTOWN. THE SOUTH SIDE OF SHELLTOWN IS IDENTIFIED UNDER THE NAME OF SHELLTOWN, BUT GAMMA BOYS. AND THE NORTH SIDE OF SHELLTOWN AREA ARE THE 38 -- SHELLTOWN 38 GANG MEMBERS. (PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 3, MAP, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION. ) BY MR. TROCHA: Q. AT THIS TIME, DETECTIVE, I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU WHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 3. IT APPEARS TO BE A MAP; IS THAT CORRECT? A. YES. Q. DOES THIS DEPICT THE BORDERS, AS YOU'VE JUST DESCRIBED TO THE JURY, OF SHELLTOWN? A. YES. Q. AND THE BORDERS WOULD BE LINED OUT IN BLACK? A. YES.36 Q. NOW, FOCUSING ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE MAP, WE CAN SEE A SOLID BORDER GOING FROM -- DOWN SOUTH 43RD STREET; IS THAT CORRECT? A. YES, Q. WOULD THAT BE THE TRADITIONAL BOUNDARY YOU'VE JUST DISCUSSED WITH THE JURY? A. YES. Q. TO THE RIGHT OF THAT IS A DOTTED LINE OR A DASHED LINE. WOULD THAT DEPICT THE AREA IN QUESTION UP TO 47TH STREET? A. YES. Q. IS THERE AN AREA THAT IS SPECIFICALLY THE HOTBED OR DRAWING PEOPLE EAST OF 43RD STREET, IN TERMS OF SHELLTOWN (CRIMES? has) Q. WHICH AREA IS THAT? A. CAN I -- DO YOU WANT ME TO -- CAN I POINT AT IT? Q. SURE. WE HAVE A POINTER UP THERE, I THINK, ACTUALLY. A. THIS SPECIFIC AREA IS CLAIMED BY SHELLTOWN 38. THIS AREA ON THE DIVISION, OVER HERE ON C STREET, TO THE SOUTH, IS CLAIMED BY GAMMA. GAMMA -- SHELLTOWN GAMMA BOYS. Q. AND TO THE EAST OF IT, GOING OUT TO 47TH STREET, WHAT IS THE CONTESTED AREA? A. RIGHT HERE, THIS AREA -- THIS IS NATIONAL CITY. SOME OF -- SOME OF THE STREETS ON THE NORTH SIDE WILL BE SAN DIEGO. SOME OF THE STREETS ARE NATIONAL CITY, SO -- BUT THIS AREA, FROM HERE TO HERE, WE BEEN HAVING A LOT OF FIGHTSBETWEEN A GANG, 46 OEK. 46 IS TRYING TO TAKE THIS TERRITORY AS PART OF THE GANG, AND SHELLTOWN HAS BEEN FIGHTING WITH THEM OVER THAT TERRITORY. Q. AND, FOR THE RECORD, THE AREA YOU DESCRIBED IS FROM NORTH OF DIVISION UP TO, APPROXIMATELY, LOGAN AVENUE? A. YES. LOGAN -- ACTUALLY, IT'S RIGHT HERE WHERE THEY HANG OUT, IN THIS -- THEY'VE BEEN FIGHTING FOR THAT SPECIFIC PARK. Q. AND THAT WOULD BE HENDERSON RECREATIONAL CENTER? A. YES. Q. IN TERM OF -- IN TERMS OF YOUR FAMILIARITY WITH SHELLTOWN, DID THAT JUST BEGIN WHILE YOU WERE A POLICE OFFICER? A. NO. Q. WHEN DID IT BEGIN? A, I USED TO LIVE IN THAT AREA. Q. HOW LONG DID YOU LIVE IN THAT AREA PRIOR TO JOINING THE POLICE FORCE? A. FOR -- I MOVED THERE IN 1988, SO 12 YEARS. I MOVE OUT IN 2000. Q. CAN YOU SHOW US, APPROXIMATELY, WHERE YOU USED TO LIVE ON THAT MAP? A. YES. I USED TO LIVE -- THE COURT: DO YOU MEAN '88, NOT '98? THE WITNESS: '88. THE COURT: I THOUGHT I HEARD '98. THEN THAT WAS 12 YEARS, AND I DID THE MATH. THE WITNESS: NO. '88 TO 2000.14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 38 MR. TROCHA: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS: RIGHT IN FRONT OF THIS PARK. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. THAT WOULD BE SOUTHCREST PARK? A, YES. AND, ALSO, RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM 47 -- 47TH AND LOGAN. Q. CORNER OF 47TH AND LOGAN. NOW, WHEN YOU LIVED IN THAT AREA, DID YOU BECOME FAMILIAR WITH THE GANG MEMBERS IN THE AREA? A. YES. I ALSO WORKED AT EMERSON, BANDINI, WHO IS WITH LOGAN -- LOGAN AND 35TH. THIS -- THERE'S A SCHOOL HERE -- A SCHOOL HERE WHERE I WORKED PRIOR TO BECOMING A POLICE OFFICER. I USED TO DO LAUNDRY IN 43RD, I USED TO GO SHOPPING ON 35TH, THE MARKET GROCERY STORE. Q. NOW, THIS WAS PRIOR TO RECEIVING ANY FORMAL TRAINING IN RECOGNIZING GANG MEMBERS; CORRECT? A. I WAS ALREADY AWARE OF IT, BUT I HAD NOT RECEIVED FORMAL TRAINING OF -- Q. WELL, HOW IS JUST A PERSON LIVING IN THE AREA -- HOW WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE STREET GANG? A. PRIOR TO THAT I GREW UP IN TIJUANA. I GREW UP IN THE FIRST RESIDENTIAL -- ONE OF THE FIRST RESIDENTIAL COMMUNITIES IN TIJUANA. BEING THAT, IT WAS A VERY OLD COMMUNITY, AND IT HAD A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH GANGS. I GREW UP SEEING A LOT OF GANG ACTIVITY IN MY COMMUNITY AND MY SCHOOLS. I HAVE, UNFORTUNATELY, FAMILY GANG MEMBERS, NOT ONLY IN TIJUANA, BUT ALSO IN OTHER PARTS OF CALIFORNIA. WHEN I MOVED TO SAN DIEGO, I HAD ALREADY RECOGNIZED10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 39 THE ACTIVITIES, ALREADY WAS AWARE OF THE ACTIVITIES THEY ENGAGED IN. AND I WAS WITNESS TO CRIMES, NOT JUST BY SHELLTOWN, BY OTHER GANG MEMBERS. I LIVE, ALSO, IN AN AREA THERE WHERE IT'S CLAIMED BY LINCOLN PARK. SO I WAS WITNESS OF SOME OF THOSE CRIMES THAT WERE COMMITTED BY THE GANG MEMBERS IN THAT AREA. Q. NOW, IN TERMS OF SHELLTOWN ITSELF, WHILE YOU LIVED THERE WERE YOU ABLE TO RECOGNIZE SPECIFIC GANG GRAFFITI? A. YES. Q. IS THERE A LOT OF IT IN THAT COMMUNITY? i Yes” Q. WHAT DID IT MEAN TO YOU AT THE TIME BEFORE YOU BECAME A POLICE OFFICER? A. I UNDERSTOOD THE GRAFFITI AS PART OF MARKING THE TERRITORY OR CLAIMING THAT AREA AS PART OF A TERRITORY THEY'RE IN CONTROL OF. ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT AS A WAY OF LETTING EVERY CITIZEN -- THEY ARE THE ONES THAT THEY'RE THERE. THEY'RE THE ONES THAT RULED THAT AREA. THEY'RE THE ONES THAT ARE IN CHARGE OF THAT COMMUNITY. AND THAT'S WHAT I PERCEIVE FROM THE GRAFFITI. Q. FROM THIS TIME TO -- '88 TO 2000 -- COULD YoU RECOGNIZE SUSPECTED GANG MEMBERS BY CLOTHING? A, JUST THE WAY THEY LOOK, I WOULD NOT KNOW WHETHER ‘THEY WERE GANG MEMBERS OR NOT. BUT THEIR APPEARANCE MADE ME BELIEVE THEY WERE POSSIBLY INVOLVED IN GANG ACTIVITY. Q. HAS THEIR APPEARANCE, IN TERMS OF CLOTHING AND APPEARANCE ITSELF, CHANGED OVER THE YEARS UNTIL PRESENT DAY? A. VERY MUCH.wera 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 Q. HOW so? A. WELL, IT USED TO BE THE SUPER BAGGY CLOTHES AND LONG -- WHAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SHORT PANTS. BUT, YOU KNOW, SOCKS UP HIGH, WOULD NOT SHOW ANY SKIN. BIG, WHITE T-SHIRTS, BALD HEADS, FULL OF TATTOOS -- TO NOW WHERE SOME OF THESE GANG MEMBERS JUST LOOK NORMAL. OR THEY MIGHT HAVE WHAT IS CALLED SKATER OR, LIKE, A SURFER OR SOME ATHLETIC OUTFITS THAT HAS NOTHING, YOU KNOW -- YOU MIGHT NOT SEE THIS OR LOOK AT HIM AND THINK THAT HE IS INVOLVED IN A GANG, BASED ON THEIR CLOTHING. Q. SO THE DAYS OF THE BUTTONED-UP FLANNEL SHIRT AND THE CHINOS ARE GONE? A. ‘THERE'S STILL SOME PEOPLE THAT STILL WEAR THEM, BUT FOR THE MOST PART ARE GONE. Q. ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE TERM "CHOLLO"? A, YES. Q. WHAT IS A CHOLLO? A. CHOLLO IS JUST SPANISH SLANG TO CALL GANG MEMBERS, A GANGSTER. Q. WAS THERE A LOOK ASSOCIATED WITH THE CHOLLO? A. YES. THE LOOK OF THE CHOLLO WILL BE THE TRADITIONAL, YOU KNOW, FLANNEL SHIRT WITH, YOU KNOW, PLAID, GRAY, BLACK COLORS, DARK COLORS, WITH, YOU KNOW, JUST THE ONE -- THE FIRST BUTTON UP, WITH THE WHITE T-SHIRT UNDERNEATH AND THE LONG, PRESSED PANTS, MAYBE BALD HEAD OR VERY SLICKED BACK, LONG SLEEVES, CLEAN SHOES OR, YOU KNOW, WELL-DRESSED GANGSTER. Q. AND THAT'S SOMETHING OF THE PAST THESE DAYS?10 1 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 41 YES. MR. TROCHA: YOUR HONOR, WE COULD TAKE A BREAK NOW OR -- THE COURT: THAT'S FINE. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, TEN MINUTES. SO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS. SO 10:30. REMEMBER THE ADMONISHMENT. (RECESS. ) THE COURT: WE HAVE OUR JURY. OH, WE ARE SWITCHING GEARS BRIEFLY, WE'RE STEPPING OUT OF THE DA'S CASE. WE'RE GOING INTO THE DEFENSE CASE TO TAKE A COUPLE WITNESSES OUT OF ORDER. THIS IS ACTUALLY A VERY EFFICIENT WAY FOR US TO USE OUR TIME. SO, COUNSEL. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. Q. GOOD MORNING, MR. MENDOZA. A. GOOD MORNING. Q. DO YOU RECOGNIZE ME? THE CLERK: JUDGE, HE NEEDS TO BE SWORN. THE COURT: WE HAVE TO SWEAR HIM. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: SORRY ABOUT THAT. GREGORY MENDOZA, THE DEFENSE'S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: THE CLERK: PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. THE WITNESS: GREGORY ROMAN MENDOZA. THE CLERK: PLEASE SPELL YOUR LAST NAME. THE WITNESS: M-E-N-D-O-Z-A. DIRECT EXAMINATION1 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 42 BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. Q. Q. GOOD MORNING, MR. MENDOZA. GOOD MORNING. AGAIN, YOU RECOGNIZE ME; RIGHT? YES, SIR. I CAME TO SEE YOU? UH-HUH. WHILE YOU WERE, WHAT, AT CAMPO? NO. BARRETT. CAMP BARRETT? YEAH. RIGHT OFF THE BAT, DO YOU KNOW MOISES LOPEZ? NO, SIR. NEVER MET HIM? NO. DO YOU KNOW WHO HE IS? I HEARD ABOUT HIM. OKAY. WHAT'S HIS -- IS HE A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN? I DON'T KNOW, SIR. WHAT DID HE GO BY? SMOKEY? I THINK. I DON'T KNOW. YOU THINK So? SURE. YOU HAVE A NICKNAME AS WELL; CORRECT? YES, SIR. WHAT IS IT? WHAT -- WANT ME TO SAY IT? I GET TO ASK YOU THE QUESTIONS, MR. MENDOZA.10 1 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 43 HONOR? BY MR. SI Q. EXHIBIT A. Q. A. Q. WHAT'S YOUR NICKNAME? DO I ANSWER IT, THOUGH? THE COURT: I'M SORRY. WHAT'D YOU SAY? THE WITNESS: DO I HAVE TO ANSWER IT? THE COURT: YEAH. ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. THE WITNESS: CALL ME HEFTY. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: HEFTY. MAY I APPROACH, YOUR THE COURT: SURE. )PEREDELOZZI: MR. MENDOZA, YOU SEE THIS EXHIBIT HERE, DEFENSE G. DO YOU SEE YOUR NAME ON THAT EXHIBIT? NO, SIR. HOW ABOUT HERE? OH, YEAH. IT Is. AND YOUR NAME IS -- YOUR GIVEN NAME IS NOT GREGORY ROMAN HERNANDEZ, IS IT? A. HAPPENED AL Q. IN OCEAN i NO, SIR. IT'S GREGORY ROMAN -- MENDOZA. = MENDOZA; CORRECT? YES, SIR. THE NIGHT OF SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2008, DO YOU KNOW WHAT ‘THAT NIGHT? No, SIR. DID YOU KNOW THAT MOISES LOPEZ WAS SHOT AND KILLED VIEW PARK? A COUPLE OF WEEKS LATER. YEAH.oe we Ne o OKAY. SO YOU HEARD ABOUT THAT HAPPENING? UH-HUH. DID YOU WITNESS IT HAPPEN? NO, SIR. DO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WERE DOING WHEN IT HAPPENED? I WAS AT HOME. OKAY. WHAT WERE YOU DOING THE DAY BEFORE? JUST AROUND. DO YOU REMEMBER HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH MY INVESTIGATOR, JOE MALDONADO? A. Q. I DON'T KNOW WHO THAT Is. REMEMBER WHEN I CAME TO VISIT YOU, THERE WAS MAN WITH ME? YES, SIR. HE WAS TALL? UH-HUH. REMEMBER WHAT HE LOOKED LIKE? I DON'T REMEMBER WHAT HE LOOKS LIKE. OKAY. DO YOU REMEMBER HIM ASKING YOU QUESTIONS? YES, SIR. DIDN'T YOU TELL HIM THAT YOU HAD JUST BEEN RELEASED FROM JAIL? A. YES, SIR. AND, SO, YOU WERE RESTING AT HOME; REMEMBER THAT? UH-HUH. SO NOW THAT SORT OF I'VE POSED THOSE QUESTIONS, DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT YOU WERE DOING THE DAY BEFORE SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2008?45 A. I WAS AT MY AUNT'S PAD. AT MY AUNT'S HOUSE. Q. OKAY. SO IF I WROTE ON THIS PARK, MR. MENDOZA SAYS HE WAS NOT AT THE PARK ON SEPTEMBER 13TH, 2008, THAT WOULD BE ACCURATE; CORRECT? A. YES, SIR. Q. WHAT IF I JUST CALL YOU HEFTY? IS THAT OKAY? A. I GUESS. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: FOR THE RECORD, I AM INDICATING THAT HEFTY WAS NOT PRESENT ON DEFENSE EXHIBIT G. Q. MR. MENDOZA, YOU WERE INTERVIEWED BY SOME POLICE DETECTIVES BACK ON FEBRUARY 17TH, 20107 A. YEAH. THAT'S WHEN I WAS IN CAMPO. Q. DO YOU REMEMBER, DID THEY TELL YOU WHY THEY WERE THERE, INTERVIEWING YOU? A. NOT AT THE START. Q. EVENTUALLY? A. YEAH. EVENTUALLY TOLD ME. Q. AND WHY DID THEY SAY THEY WERE THERE, INTERVIEWING You? A. I DON'T REMEMBER -- I DON'T REMEMBER, SIR. DID THEY TELL YOU THAT THEY THOUGHT YOU WERE AT THE PARK? A. OH, YEAH. SURE. THEY THOUGHT. Q. AND YOU TOLD THEM YOU WEREN'T? A. UH-HUH. I TOLD THEM I WASN'T. Q. HOW DID THEY TREAT YOU DURING THAT INTERVIEW? A. WELL, THEY KEPT BRINGING IT UP. THEY WERE, LIKE, TRYING TO SAY I WAS THERE. AND I TOLD THEM, NO, SIR. I TOLD10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 46 THEM THE TRUTH. I WASN'T THERE, YOU KNOW. Q. HOW LONG AGAIN -- EXCUSE ME. SORRY. A. AND THEN, I GUESS -- I WAS TRYING TO -- YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? I TOLD THEM I WASN'T THERE. AND, THEN, I WAS TRYING TO GET -- LIKE, TRYING TO GET THEM OFF MY BACK, BUT THEY KEPT INSISTING I WAS THERE AND ASKED THEM (SIC) FOR MY SAMPLE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, FOR SOME TYPE OF SAMPLE, EVIDENCE I WASN'T THERE. SO THEY TOOK MY LITTLE SAMPLE, LIKE A LITTLE -- A SALIVA SAMPLE. Q. THEY TRIED TO SWAB YOUR MOUTH? A, THEY DID, SIR. Q. WERE THEY NICE TO YOU? A, NOT REALLY. Q. EXPLAIN. A. THEY WERE JUST TRYING TO ASK ME QUESTIONS. Q. OKAY. WERE THEY ASKING IN A POLITE MANNER? A. ‘THEY WERE TRYING TO PLAY THE GOOD COP/BAD COP TYPE OF THING. Q. OKAY. A. YEAH. WHO WAS THE BAD COP? I DON'T REMEMBER THE FACES, SIR. IT WAS, LIKE DO YOU REMEMBER THE NAME? NO, SIR. WAS HE BALD? . ONE OF THEM WAS. 2» Oo» Ob © WITH A MUSTACHE? MR. TROCHA: YOUR HONOR, I'M GOING TO OBJECT TO47 THIS LINE AS LEADING. THE WITNESS: YES, SIR. THE COURT: IT IS. BUT GO AHEAD. IT'S PRELIMINARY. OVERRULED. JUST GO THROUGH IT. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: DID HE HAVE A MUSTACHE? YES, SIR. WAS HE TALL? YEAH. DID HE HAVE A DEEP VOICE? YES. WAS HE THE BAD COP OR THE GOOD COP? HE WAS, I THINK -- IF I REMEMBER, I THINK HE WAS THE BAD COP. Q. STALKER? A. HE WAS THE BAD COP. OKAY. AND THE OTHER ONE, YOU DON'T REMEMBER THAT PERSON? NO, SIR. DO YOU KNOW A PERSON NAMED ANDRES LOPEZ? NOPE. I MET HIM, BUT THAT'S ABOUT IT. DO YOU KNOW HIM AS STALKER? OH, YEAH. I KNOW. THAT'S HIS NICKNAME; RIGHT? YES, SIR. HAVE YOU TALKED TO PEOPLE ABOUT STALKER? NO. HAVE YOU HAD CONVERSATIONS IN CAMP BARRETT ABOUT I HEARD A COUPLE OF STUFF ABOUT HIM.48 Q. YOU HEARD STUFF ABOUT HIM? YES, SIR. Q. BUT DID YOU -- WHO DID YOU TALK TO AND WHERE? A, ONE OF MY FRIENDS, THEY TOLD HIM -- MR. TROCHA: OBJECTION. HEARSAY. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZ. Q. WITHOUT SAYING WHAT WAS SAID, TELL ME -- TELL THE JURY, IF YOU WILL, WHO YOU HAD THE CONVERSATION WITH. A, ABOUT HIM? I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ASK ME, SIR. Q. JUST THE NAME OF THE PERSON WHO YOU HAD THE CONVERSATION WITH. A. I DON'T REMEMBER. Q. YOU'VE MET MR. LOPEZ IN THE PAST; CORRECT? A. YES, SIR. YEAH. Q. AND YOU'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM IN THE PAST? A. YES, SIR. Q. AND WHAT HAS HE TOLD YOU IN THE PAST? A. WELL, I HAVE TO HANG OUT WITH HIM BACK IN THE DAYS. THAT'S ABOUT IT. YEAH. Q. OKAY. DID -- YOU REMEMBER HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH MR. MALDONADO WHERE YOU -- YOU TOLD MR. MALDONADO THAT MR. LOPEZ SAID CERTAIN THINGS TO YOU THAT YOU SORT OF QUESTIONED; REMEMBER? A. UH-HUH. Q. WHAT WERE THOSE THINGS? A. OH, HE WOULD ALWAYS MAKE UP STUFF, LIKE, YOU KNOW.49 Q. LIKE WHAT KIND OF STUFF? A. LIKE HE WOULD JUST -- IT WOULD JUST -- HE WOULD JUST MAKE UP STUFF, LIKE, TRY TO MAKE HIMSELF, LIKE, "OH, T DID THIS TODAY," YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. EVERY TIME I SEE HIM HE WOULD JUST, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, LIKE -- Q. DO YOU REMEMBER SPECIFICALLY WHAT HE SAID? A, NOT REALLY. Q. AND BASED ON YOUR CONVERSATIONS WITH STALKER, WHAT'S YOUR OPINION AS TO WHETHER HE TELLS THE TRUTH ALL THE TIME OR NOT? A. HE'S A LIAR. Q. OKAY. NOTHING FURTHER. ANY QUESTIONS? MR. TROCHA: A COUPLE. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. TROCHA: Q. MR. MENDOZA, REMEMBER TELLING THE POLICE THAT YOU ONLY HUNG OUT WITH HIM FOR A FEW WEEKS? A. YES, SIR. Q. THAT'S IT? THAT'S THE EXTENT OF YOUR CONTACT WITH STALKER? A. THAT I HANG OUT WITH. YES, SIR. Q. YOU'RE A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET? A. IF YOU SAY. Q. ARE You? A. YES, SIR. Q. YOU SEE THE PERSON SITTING AT THE DEFENSE TABLE IN THE DARK SUIT, CLOSEST TO THE BOOKSHELF?10 1. 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 50 2 po PO PD > STREET; I SEE HIM. YEAH. WHO IS HE? I DON'T KNOW, SIR. YOU SURE ABOUT THAT? UH-HUH. YOU'RE A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET; RIGHT? YES, SIR. YOU HANG OUT WITH OTHER MEMBERS OF SHELLTOWN 38TH CORRECT? UH-HUH. IS THAT A YES? YES, SIR. YOU'VE HUNG OUT WITH THIS DEFENDANT; CORRECT? No. No? NO. EVER HUNG OUT WITH A GUY NAMED SPEEDY? No. GUY NAMED CHUNKY? NO. GUY NAMED FLORENCIO? No. YOU SURE? YES, SIR. YOU HAVE A MYSPACE PAGE, DON'T YOU? YES, SIR. PICTURES ON YOUR MYSPACE PAGE, DON'T YOU? A COUPLE.‘THE COURT: WHAT EXHIBIT NUMBER IS THIS? MR. TROCHA: GOING TO BE 231 AND THEN 232. (PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 231, PHOTO, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION. ) (PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NO. 232, PHOTO, WAS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION. ) BY MR. TROCHA: Q. SHOW YOU WHAT'S BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 231. SEE THIS PHOTOGRAPH IN FRONT OF YOU? YES, SIR. IT'S THE SAME PHOTOGRAPH AS WHAT'S ON THE TV CORRECT? UH-HUH. IS THAT A YES? YES, SIR. THAT'S YOU IN THE CORNER, IS IT NOT, IN THE SAN DIEGO HAT? IT Is, SIR. WHO'S THIS PERSON RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE, MR. MENDOZA? I DON'T KNOW, SIR. YOU DON'T? No. ISN'T HE THE SAME PERSON YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE IN COURT TODAY? I DON'T KNOW. I DIDN'T KNOW HIM THAT NIGHT, SIR. WELL, YOU KNOW HIM NOW, DON'T YOU? I SEE HIM HERE RIGHT NOW. YES. SO YOU TAKE PICTURES WITH PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW?10 at 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 52 A. Q. YES, SIR. WHO ARE THE OTHER PEOPLE IN THIS PICTURE, MR. MENDOZA? A. Q. A. Q. BLACK. A. Q. I ONLY KNOW A COUPLE OF THEM. WHO? POINT THEM OUT FOR US. RIGHT THERE. AND THAT'S THE PERSON RIGHT NEXT TO YOU IN THE WHAT'S HIS NAME? I DON'T KNOW HIS REAL NAME, SIR. WHAT'S HIS STREET NAME? CALL HIM STALKER. THAT'S STALKER? YES, SIR. WHAT'S THE PERSON NEXT TO STALKER? I DON'T KNOW, SIR. WHAT ABOUT THIS PERSON DOING SOMETHING WITH HIS HANDS IN THE GRAY PANTS? AL ‘THAT. Q. YEAH. I KNOW HIM. WHO IS THAT? THAT -- I DON’T KNOW HIS NAME, SIR. WHAT -- WHAT DO YOU KNOW HIM AS? LET'S JUST DO MANNY. MANNY? YES. WHO'S NEXT TO MANNY, ON THE LEFT, IN THE BLUE-AND-YELLOW JACKET? A. I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW HIS NAME, SIR.Q. a Q. WHO ELSE DO YOU KNOW IN THIS PICTURE? THAT'S ABOUT IT. WHAT ABOUT THIS PERSON ALL THE WAY IN THE BACK, WITH THE MUSTACHE? A. Q. A. Q. a I DON'T KNOW, SIR. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT PERSON? No. YOU'RE A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET? UH-HUH. WHO'S CROOKS? I DON'T KNOW, SIR. YOU DON'T KNOW CROOKS? NO. I'VE BEEN LOCKED UP, SIR, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, PICTURE'S KIND OF OLD, SIR. Q. A. LIKE, BUT IT IS KIND OF OLD. HOW OLD Is IT? I WOULDN'T -- I DON'T REMEMBER THE DATE, SIR. -- I'VE BEEN BUSTED, '09. I'VE BEEN LOCKED UP '09 AND END UP, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN -- Q. Q. SO IT WOULD HAVE TO BE BEFORE '09; RIGHT? SOMETHING LIKE THAT. HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN IN JUVENILE CUSTODY? FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS, LIKE. ABOUT TWO YEARS? ‘YEAH. WHEN DID YOU GO IN? THIS TIME -- THIS TIME I WENT IN ON -- I GOT BUSTED OF JULY. IN 109?10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 54 A. NO. THIS -- THIS YEAR. Q. THIS YEAR. OKAY. SO YOU'VE BEEN IN SINCE AT LEAST 4TH OF JULY OF THIS YEAR? A. YEAH. I GOT OUT -- BEFORE 4TH OF JULY I GOT OUT, AND I WAS OUT FOR A MONTH-AND-A-HALF. THEN I GOT LOCKED UP AGAIN. AND WERE YOU IN, IN ‘09, TOO? YES, SIR. I WAS. WHEN WERE YOU IN, IN ‘09? ALMOST ALL YEAR. I WAS ONLY OUT FOR A YEAR IN '09. THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN BEFORE YOU WENT IN, IN '09? YEAH, I THINK, SIR. co POP D PO . WHO IS THIS PERSON RIGHT HERE, IN THE GRAY T-SHIRT WITH THE WHITE DESIGN AND THE GOATEE? A, I DON'T KNOW, SIR. Q. YOU DON'T KNOW THAT PERSON? A. NO. Q. WHO'S THE PERSON STANDING IN FRONT OF THEM IN THE CAMOUFLAGE HOODIE? A. I DON'T KNOW. Q. YOU'RE TELLING US TODAY YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS WITH THE BLACK SHIRT? A. NO, SIR. Q. SHOW YOU PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT 232. IT LOOKS LIKE THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN THE SAME NIGHT; RIGHT? A. UH-HUH. Q. IS THAT A YEAH?55 Q. YES, SIR. SHE'S GOT TO WRITE IT DOWN. THAT'S WHY. YES. WE CAN SEE YOU, AGAIN, STANDING UP WITH THE BLUE HAT RIGHT BEHIND THE PERSON IN THE WHITE JACKET; RIGHT? Q. YES. WHAT ARE PEOPLE DOING IN THAT PICTURE WITH THEIR TOSSING UP SIGNS. WHAT KIND OF SIGNS? JUST SIGNS, SIR. FOR WHO? HUH? FOR WHAT GANG? FOR SHELLTOWN. SHELLTOWN. AND IF WE GO BACK TO 231, YOU'RE THROWING UP A SIGN; RIGHT? AL Q. YES. I SEE IT, SIR. OKAY. I MEAN, I'M -- I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING. I'M NOT TRYING TO INSULT YOU OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. aA. JUST GET ME MAD, SIR. WHAT SIGN IS THAT? HUH? WHAT SIGN ARE YOU THROWING UP? I DON'T KNOW, SIR. I MEAN, YOU GOT TO TELL US, MR. MENDOZA. WHAT SIGN IS THAT?10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 56 Q. PERSON IN SIGN? THAT a Q. SOMETHING A. Q. a Q. IT'S SHELLTOWN. IT'S SHELLTOWN? YEAH. ARE YOU THE -- ARE THE OTHER PEOPLE -- SAY THE THE BLUE-AND-YELLOW JACKET. IS THAT A SHELLTOWN I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. THIS PERSON HERE DOING SOMETHING WITH HIS HANDS. YES, SIR. THAT'S A SHELLTOWN SIGN? YEAH. WHAT ABOUT THE PERSON NEXT TO HIM, DOING THIS? IS SHELLTOWN SIGN? YES, SIR. ARE YOU GUYS ALL IN THE FRONT ROW SPELLING OUT WITH YOUR HANDS? NO. EVERYBODY'S TOSSING UP THEIR OWN THING. AND IT'S ALL SHELLTOWN? YEAH. IS ANYONE IN THAT PICTURE NOT THROWING UP SHELLTOWN? A. Q. UH-HUH. WHO? YOU CAN POINT HIM OUT TO US. I DON'T NEED TO KNOW THE NAME. A. Q. I CAN'T REACH. HOW ABOUT YOU JUST TELL ME WHAT HE'S WEARING, AND I'LL POINT HIM OUT. A. RIGHT THERE IN THE BACK OF -- NO, NO. DOWN, DOWN.10 1 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 87 GO DOWN. Q. WEARING A A. Q. A. Q. YEAH. THIS GUY? YEAH. OKAY, ‘THE -- LOOKS LIKE HE'S WEARING GLASSES, GRAY T-SHIRT, ALL THE WAY OVER ON THE LEFT? UH-HUH. YEAH? YES, SIR. SAME THING IN 232. PEOPLE ARE THROWING UP SIGNS AGAIN. IS ANYBODY NOT THROWING UP A SHELLTOWN SIGN, THAT YOU CAN SEE? AL Q. A. Q. A. Q. SIR. Q. AL Q. A. Q. NO. I CAN'T SEE. YOU CAN'T SEE? NO. DO YOU KNOW WHERE THIS PICTURE WAS TAKEN? NO, SIR. I DON'T REMEMBER. WAS IT AT YOUR HOUSE? No. WAS IT AT SOMEBODY'S HOUSE? I DON'T REMEMBER. I DON'T KNOW WHOSE HOUSE IT WAS, BUT YOU POSTED THIS PICTURE UP ON THE INTERNET? YEAH. THEY PASSED IT ON TO ME. YEAH. WHY DID YOU PUT IT UP ON YOUR SITE? BECAUSE IT HAS ME IN IT. YOUR SITE ALSO HAS OTHER SHELLTOWN STUFF IN IT, T00; IS THAT RIGHT? A. I BELIEVE So.10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 58 PAGE? WHY DO YOU POST SHELLTOWN THINGS ON YOUR MYSPACE BECAUSE -- BECAUSE I WANT TO. THAT'S WHO YOU ARE? YES, SIR. REMEMBER TALKING TO THE POLICE ABOUT SNITCHING? UH-HUH. IS THAT A YES? YES. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT SNITCHES? I DON'T LIKE THEM. WHY NOT? I JUST DON'T, SIR. I DIDN'T -- YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T GROW UP -- I WASN'T -- YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, I WAS TAUGHT NOT, YOU KNOW, NOT TO -- Q. A. Q. YOU TOLD THE POLICE YOU DON'T SNITCH? YES. YOU TOLD THE POLICE THAT YOU WERE NOT GOING TO COOPERATE WITH THEM BECAUSE YOU DON'T SNITCH? A, oP OP A. UH-HUH. YES? YES, SIR. SHE'S GOT TO -- SHE CAN'T WRITE DOWN "UH-HUH. YES. WHAT DO YOU THINK OF PEOPLE WHO DO SNITCH? I DON'T -- I DON'T KNOW. I DON'T -- I GOT NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW. Q. WHAT DO YOU THINK SHOULD HAPPEN TO PEOPLE WHO10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 22 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 SNITCH? A, I DON’T KNOW. Q. WHAT ABOUT EVENTS THAT OCCUR WITHIN THE GANG OF SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET? YOU THINK PEOPLE SHOULD GO TO THE POLICE WITH THAT? A, I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY. Q. DO YOU THINK GOING TO THE POLICE ABOUT THAT IS SNITCHING? A. I WILL -- YES. THAT'S HOW I SEE IT, Q. IS THAT HOW EVERYONE SEES IT IN THE GANG? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW. BY MR, TROCHA: Q. I MEAN, ARE YOU ALONE IN THAT BELIEF? A. I GUESS I AM. Q. YOU ACTUALLY TOLD THE POLICE THAT YOU THINK WHAT HAPPENS IN THE GANG SHOULD STAY IN THE GANG; RIGHT? A. THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE. THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE IN, SIR. Q. YOU BELIEVE THAT TODAY, TOO? A. YES, SIR. Q. THANK YOU, MR. MENDOZA. I DON'T WANT TO TAKE UP ANY MORE OF YOUR TIME. THE COURT: ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: NO QUESTIONS. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T WE GO AHEAD AND 5910 1. 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 60 SEND HIM BACK AND PUT THE DETECTIVE UP UNTIL WE GET THE NEXT WITNESS. ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT, I'M JUST WORRIED ABOUT THE WITNESSES AND THEIR TIME. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE WAS SOME ISSUES WITH THEM GETTING OUT OF HERE. I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT. ‘THE COURT: DEPUTY, GO AHEAD AND BRING HIM BACK, AND WHY DON'T YOU BRING THE OTHER ONE. DETECTIVE, YOU WANT TO GET BACK ON THE STAND? NOW WE'RE GOING TO SWITCH BACK TO THE DA CASE. SO AS SOON AS THE OTHER IN CUSTODY COMES, WE'LL TAKE HIM OUT OF ORDER. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: WE'LL STOP? THE COURT: YEAH. WE'RE GOING TO PUT HER BACK ON, REVERT BACK TO THE DA CASE. AND, THEN, WHEN WE GET YOUR NEXT WITNESS, WE'LL PULL HER RIGHT OFF. AGAIN, I'M TRYING TO MAXIMIZE YOUR TIME. YOU HAVE, HONESTLY, BEEN OUTSTANDING. WE HAVE SOME JURIES THAT CHRONICALLY RUN LATE. YOU'RE THE OPPOSITE. YOU'RE ALWAYS ON TIME. AND BELIEVE ME, THE LAWYERS APPRECIATE IT, THE COURT APPRECIATES IT. SO, MR. PROSECUTOR, NEXT QUESTION. MR. TROCHA: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. MARTHA GASCA, THE PEOPLE'S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. TROCHA:10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 61 Q. BEFORE WE START GETTING INTO MORE SPECIFICS OF SHELLTOWN, DETECTIVE GASCA, YOU TALKED ABOUT RESPECT. WE TALKED ABOUT MEMBERSHIP, WE TALKED ABOUT HIERARCHIES, WE TALKED ABOUT COMMITTING CRIMES AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE. YOU USED THE TERM CALLED "PUTTING IN WORK," IN REGARDS TO RESPECT. WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHEN YOU SAY "PUT IN WORK"? A. PUTTING IN WORK IS -- IT'S THE SLANG THEY USE TO THE ACTIVITIES -- GANG-RELATED ACTIVITIES THAT THEY DO. WHEN -- WHEN THEY FIRST COME, WHEN THEY FIRST WANT TO BECOME A GANG MEMBER, WHEN THEY WANT TO SHOW OFF THEY'RE GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE GANG. PUTTING IN WORK, IT COULD BE NOT ONLY FOR THE NEW UPPER-COMERS (SIC), BUT IT COULD BE ALSO FOR THE ONES -- THE ACTIVE MEMBERS. FOR THE MOST PART WILL BE GRAFFITI. GRAFFITI IN THAT COMMUNITY WHERE THEY EXIST, GRAFFITI IN RIVAL GANG AREAS. AND THAT WILL BE GOING TO LOGAN HEIGHTS AND WRITE OVER THERE, "SHELLTOWN," AS A WAY OF DISRESPECTING THAT GANG AND SHOWING OFF THAT THEY HAVE CONTROL OVER THEM. THAT'S A WAY OF PUTTING WORK IN. DOING BEER RUNS. JUST, YOU KNOW -- THEY'RE ALL HANGING OUT AT THE PARK. THEY'LL GO -- THE YOUNGSTER WILL GO DO A BEER RUN AND WILL BRING BEER FOR THE GROUP. THEY'LL DO STREET ROBBERIES. MINOR STREET ROBBERIES FOR CELL PHONES, YOU KNOW. SOMETIMES THEY DO HAVE WEAPONS, SOMETIMES THEY DON'T HAVE WEAPONS. THEY WILL DO -- THEY WILL FIGHT ANYONE THAT DOESN'T BELONG TO THEIR GANG SET, WHETHER IT'S A GANG MEMBER OR IS10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 62 JUST A REGULAR CITIZEN. AND STREET ROBBERIES ALSO INCLUDE -- NOT JUST TO A GANG MEMBER. IT INCLUDES CITIZENS OF THAT COMMUNITY, OLDER PEOPLE, YOUNG PEOPLE, WHETHER THEY'RE GANG-RELATED OR NOT. VANDALISMS ON VEHICLES. IF THEY KNOW THAT SOMEBODY CALLED THE POLICE, THEY MIGHT GO AND VANDALIZE THEIR CAR IF THEY FIND OUT. THAT'S A WAY OF PUTTING IN WORK FOR THEIR GANG. FIGHTING ANYONE THAT COMES INTO THEIR GANG OR GOING -- GROUPS OF KIDS, YOUNG GUYS OR GANG MEMBERS, THAT GO TO THE OPPOSITE GANG TERRITORY AND WILL FIGHT THEM. STABBINGS. ANYTHING WHERE -- PUTTING IN WORK IS ANYTHING THAT'S GOING TO GET -- BENEFIT THAT GANG, IS GOING TO BENEFIT THAT PERSON TO ACQUIRE THE STATUS IN THE GANG. Q. IN TERMS OF PUTTING IN WORK, IS SOME WORK MORE VALUED THAN OTHERS? Aa ves" Q. HOW -- HOW DOES THAT RANK? A. THE MOST VIOLENT, THE MOST VALUE, OR THE MOST RESPECTED, THE BEST YOU LOOK COMPARED TO THE OTHER ONE. YOU ARE CRAZY. YOU HAVE NO FEAR. YOU'RE WILLING TO DO ANYTHING THAT IT TAKES FOR THE GANG. YOU'LL FIGHT ANYONE. YOU'LL STEAL CARS. YOU'LL GET IN PURSUITS WITH THE POLICE. YOU'LL BE TALKING. YOU'LL BE DEFENDING THAT -- THAT SET. YOU'LL BE AS A SOLDIER TO THAT GANG. THAT'S THE WAY THEY SEE THEMSELVES. THEY ARE TO DEFEND THEIR GANG. AND THAT'S THE WAY THEY PUT IN WORK, BY SHOWING OFF THEY CAN BE VIOLENT, THEY CAN RESPOND, AND THEY'LL DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO BECOME A GANG MEMBER.10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 63 Q. IS THIS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE OTHER TERM KNOWN AS “EARNING YOUR STRIPES"? A. THAT'S THE SAME THING. YES. Q. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT RESPECT, ISN'T THERE THE COUNTER OF DISRESPECT? ‘A Yes. Q. HOW CAN A GANG MEMBER BE DISRESPECTED? A. DISRESPECT CAN BE ANYTHING FOR THEM. DISRESPECT COULD BE JUST A REGULAR CITIZEN LOOKING AT THEM IN A WAY THAT THEY PERCEIVE THAT AS A DISRESPECTFUL LOOK. IF THEY'RE HANGING OUT, AND CITIZENS ARE LOOKING AT THEM BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN THE COMMUNITY, AND THEY DON'T AGREE WITH THEM HANGING OUT OUTSIDE A LIQUOR STORE OR TAGGING OR PUTTING GRAFFITI, THAT'S DISRESPECT FOR THEM. AND THEY WILL RETALIATE AGAINST WHOEVER THEY FEEL DISRESPECTED. DISRESPECT ALSO COULD BE BY THE OPPOSITE GANG COMING TO THEIR TERRITORY AND TAGGING "LOGAN" IN THE SHELLTOWN AREA. NAMES. CROSSING OUT THEIR -- THEIR OWN TAGGING, THAT WILL BE DISRESPECTFUL. ANYONE THAT WALKS INTO THE AREA, AND THEY'RE NOT FROM THAT SET, THAT WILL BE DISRESPECTFUL. HOW DO YOU DARE TO COME TO MY GANG, TO MY TERRITORY, TO MY LAND. THAT WILL BE A SIGN OF DISRESPECT. Q. IN TERMS OF NOBODYS OR RIVAL GANG MEMBERS ENTERING A GANG TERRITORY, YOU HEARD OF A TERM CALLED "CHECKING"? A. YES. Q. WHAT IS CHECKING? A. CHECKING IN IS JUST GO CHECK THEM. GO TAKE CARE OF THAT PERSON THAT IS THERE, THAT JUST WALKED BY, THAT IS HANGING OUT AT THE PARK THAT DOESN'T BELONG TO THAT GANG.ONYD W S.LI USHISHM ‘SNOXNY NO ONI@EWLS WY OG GNY OD TIVASHL | 8@ ‘SMBHL S,YSATOHM ‘ONI@AWIS W 3 GTN0D LI xO Lz “RIOLIVAGL UIHL YAAO TTY SHOWId INaUAsaIG InsLxa | 97 MADOIA W OL LI Od TiI GNY ‘AYOLIWWSL SHL NI aWws SHL oa | sz TWiT GNY ‘MOVE OD TI,I ‘WHHL YAO IOMLNOD MOHS OL OND LYHL | ¥z MO TWILINI UISHL Ld TIASHL “LOO LI SSOHD OHM AVS TIAGHL | €c GNW ‘LNO SSO¥D TIIM ATIWNSN ASHL asnwOMa -- MONY NOA ‘OWE OD | zz "SWWN AW YO TISHS AW LNO GESSOWD GNY SWWO LagaLSs Layee | Tz TI oz ar “WW ONVD TWATY USHLO NI ONTHL SWS SHL ONTOd Lsnr woud AWM GHL TIW GQ IONI NBSS SAVH I IVHL SHSNOdswu SWOS “W 6t 2SHSNOdSHY GHLOGAXA ANOS AWW IVHM -- LWHM = °O at “KIGLINIGSG ‘HO ‘WY Lt eaqnoasaa | 9T OL GaLO#axa I WY “OWL AN LOO GASSOUD S¥H AGOMHWOS GNY | ST MHGWHN ONVO WV WiI 4 AVS “SUSEWAW OND SHL WOoud = °O oT eNOSUHd ALISOddO SHL WOUd -- HL WOUE “W et 2OHLOGdSTUSIA SI NO NAHM SSNOdSau aaLosaxa Nw | 7T BUGHL SI ‘IORASY uéWO¥d NOA THSHMu HL 4O SWYAL NI ‘GexaHO | TT YO GHLOMASHASIG SI UAGWHW ONVD W NAHM dO SWUEL NI “O ot “RQOGSWOS ONTYOEHD JO AWM V SiIVHL OS ‘“Nosuaa | 6 HHL LSNIVOW INHTOIA ONIHISWOS OG OL GHLOFdXE AG OL ONTOD | 8 HUMOR -- AI LSAl MOA ‘NMO UNOA NO LI Od SMP OD OL ONTOD | L UsMOA YO -- WIH NOTH OD OL GTOL NA#@ SAMOA GNW ‘NOSUad BHL | 9 MOBHD NOA BONO “WIH LHOIS OL ‘SUSHL ONIOG S.SH L¥HM INO GNIa | § OL ‘NOSWHd BHL LNOWINOD OL “NI OHH OL SI LI LWHM SLWISNWEL | > OL COM HLWYNOOW ISOW BHL ATVEOUd SiLWHL u‘WIH LNOYANOD | € 0D “WOW SiSH SYSHM WIH ASW ODu “AVS OL GaSN AHL LYHL | Zz T ONIHL USHLONY SI dN WHHL LIH -- WHHL LIH OD ST WHHL YOaHO 910 a 12 13 14 as 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 65 MEMBER OR IS NOT, JUST TO SHOW THAT SHELLTOWN WAS HERE, AND WE'RE GOING TO TAKE CARE OF BUSINESS. YOU DON'T COME INTO MY AREA AND DISRESPECT MY AREA. OR THEY DO SHOOTINGS. THEY DON'T DO MUCH DRIVE-BYS ANYMORE, BUT THEY STILL DO SHOOTINGS, WHERE THEY WALK UP TO -- AND DO A SHOOTING, IT CAN BE A DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW -- USUALLY -- I WON'T SAY USUALLY. I HAVE SEEN FROM TAGGING TO A SHOOTING, JUST BASED ON DISRESPECT. Q. IF ONE GETS DISRESPECTED, AND THEY DO NOT DO ANYTHING TO RETALIATE, HOW IS THAT LOOKED UPON IN THE GANG? A. THEY'RE SEEN AS A WEAK GANG. THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE RESPECTED AMONG OTHER GANGS. OTHER GANGS ARE GOING TO SEE THAT GANG AS NOT TAKING CARE WHO DID THIS. THEY NEVER CAME BACK. THEY EXPECT THAT. THEY KNOW THAT ONCE THEY GO AND CROSS THE LINE, SOMETHING'S GOING TO COME BACK. IF THEY DON'T GET ANYTHING IN RETURN, THEY'RE GOING TO SEE THAT GANG AS A WEAK GANG. Q. BEFORE WE MOVE ON TO THE NEXT KIND OF SUBTOPIC, YOU MENTIONED DRIVE-BYS AREN'T PREVALENT ANYMORE. IS THIS ONLY AMONG HISPANIC GANGS? A. YES. Q. WHY Is THAT? A. BACK IN -- I BELIEVE IT'S 1992, 1993, THERE IS A RULE THAT CAME DOWN FROM MEXICAN MAFIA BACK IN THE PRISONS. THEY SAID THERE WAS SOME CRIMES COMMITTED IN LA THAT HAD A LOT OF DRIVE-BY SHOOTINGS. DURING THOSE DRIVE-BY SHOOTINGS, THEY HAD KILLED SOME INNOCENT PEOPLE, INCLUDING KIDS. THAT BROUGHT A LOT OF NEGATIVE ATTENTION TO THE GANGS. THEes ene yaw 10 a. 12 13 14 15 16 a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10 1 12 13 14 15 16 ay 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 67 Q. WHAT IS BACKING UP YOUR HOMIES OR BACKING YOUR HOMIES? A, BACKING UP YOUR HOMIES IS -- FOR A GANG THERE'S NO FAIR FIGHT. THERE'S NOT SUCH A ONE-ON-ONE. AND IT MIGHT START AS A ONE-ON-ONE, BUT IT NEVER ENDS AS A ONE-ON-ONE. ONCE YOU SEE THAT YOUR GANG MEMBER FROM YOUR GANG IS BEING PUNCHED, EVERYBODY'S GOING TO JUMP IN. Q. DETECTIVE, I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT. WE HAVE THE OTHER WITNESS READY, SO WE CAN GET BACK TO -- A. OF COURSE. ‘THE COURT: SO WE LEFT IT OFF ON THAT NOTE. ALL RIGHT, AGAIN, SWITCHING BACK TO THE DEFENSE CASE. CHRISTIAN AVITIA, THE DEFENSE'S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS: THE CLERK: PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME. THE WITNESS: CHRISTIAN AVITIA. THE CLERK: PLEASE SPELL YOUR LAST NAME. THE WITNESS: A-V-I-T-I-A. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: + GOOD MORNING, MR. AVITIA. GOOD MORNING. WE'VE MET BEFORE; CORRECT? UH-HUH. YES. YOU ALSO TALKED TO MY INVESTIGATOR, JOE MALDONADO? . YES. oP 0 PO PO . HE CAME TO VISIT YOU WHILE YOU WERE IN CAMPO;auewvne 10 1. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 68 CORRECT? A. YES. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: MAY I APPROACH, YOUR HONOR? ‘THE COURT: SURE. BY MR, SPEREDELOZZI: Q. MR. AVITIA? YES. WHAT ARE YOU ALSO KNOWN AS? I DON'T HAVE NO NAME. WHAT'S THAT? I DON'T HAVE NO NAME. DO YOU HAVE A NICKNAME THAT YOU GO BY? NO. JUST CHRISTIAN. ARE YOU A MEMBER OF A GANG CALLED SHELLTOWN 38TH NO. DO YOU REMEMBER TELLING MY INVESTIGATOR THAT YOU WERE A MEMBER? AL Q. A. Q. A. Q. NO. DO YOU GO BY THE NAME SPANKY? SOME PEOPLE CALL ME THAT, BUT I DON'T GO BY IT. THAT'S ACTUALLY -- THEY CALL YOU LITTLE SPANKY? SOME PEOPLE. BUT I DON'T GO BY IT. OKAY. BUT YOU ARE KNOWN AS LITTLE SPANKY? OKAY. AND YOU REMEMBER TELLING MY INVESTIGATOR THAT AS WELL; CORRECT? A. Q. YES. THE NIGHT -- DO YOU KNOW A PERSON NAMED MOISES1 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 69 LOPEZ? no Q. A, Q. NOPE. HAVE YOU HEARD ABOUT HIM? YES. WHAT DID YOU HEAR? OBJECTION. CALLS FOR HEARSAY. SUSTAINED. BY MR. SPEREDELOZZI: Q. A. Q. WITHOUT -- LET ME REPHRASE THE QUESTION. DID YOU HEAR ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM? YEAH. AND YOU'RE AWARE THAT HE WAS SHOT AND KILLED IN OCEAN VIEW PARK? NAME A. Q. A. Q. YES. WERE YOU PRESENT WHEN THAT HAPPENED? NO. WHERE WERE YOU? PARTY. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT NIGHT? YES. IF I SHOW YOU THIS EXHIBIT, DEFENSE EXHIBIT G, YOUR ON HERE; CORRECT? YES. YOU'RE INDICATING THAT YOU WERE NOT PRESENT? YES. OKAY. SO IF I WRITE YOU WEREN'T PRESENT DURING THE SHOOTING, THAT WOULD BE ACCURATE? IF I WRITE IN RED ON THIS EXHIBIT YOU'RE NOT PRESENT AT THE PARK THE NIGHT OF THE10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 70 SHOOTING, THAT WOULD BE ACCURATE? LIKE -- Q. ABOUT? A. Q. A. Q. YES. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: FOR THE RECORD, I HAVE DONE SO. DO YOU KNOW SOMEBODY NAMED ANDRES LOPEZ? No. DO YOU KNOW SOMEBODY NAMED STALKER? YES. WHO'S STALKER? THIS KID. I MET HIM IN JUVENILE HALL. YOU MET HIM IN JUVENILE HALL? UH-HUH. WHAT'S YOUR -- YOU HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM? ‘YEAH. AND HE TOLD YOU SOME THINGS? LIKE -- JUST LIKE -- LIKE WE'RE JUST TALKING, LIKE -- DID HE TELL YOU SOME THINGS THAT YOU WERE SKEPTICAL I DON'T KNOW WHAT "SKEPTICAL" MEANS. DID YOU BELIEVE WHAT HE WAS TELLING YOU? I DON'T KNOW. DO YOU REMEMBER TELLING MY INVESTIGATOR THAT YOU DIDN'T BELIEVE THE THINGS HE WAS TELLING YOU? aA. Q. Q. I DON'T KNOW. DID HE TELL YOU THINGS LIKE HE WOULD STEAL CARS? SOMETIMES. AND THEN WOULD HE CHANGE HIS STORY AFTERWARDS? IT WOULD JUST -- I DON'T KNOW. I CAN'T REMEMBER.a aw © 10 a 12 13 14 1s 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 1 . BASED ON YOUR CONVERSATION WITH HIM, DO YOU THINK HE'S HONEST? A. I'M NOT SURE. Q. DID YOU REMEMBER TELLING MY INVESTIGATOR, MR. MALDONADO, THAT YOU DIDN'T THINK HE WAS HONEST? A. YBS. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: NOTHING FURTHER. THE COURT: ANY QUESTIONS? MR. TROCHA: JUST A COUPLE. (CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. TROCHA: Q. DO YOU NEED ME TO TELL YOU WHAT TO SAY BEFORE YOU SAY YES OR NO? A. LIKE HOW? Q. LIKE YOU'VE JUST BEEN DOING WITH THE DEFENSE ATTORNEY. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE. THE COURT: SUSTAINED. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. YOU DON'T HANG OUT WITH 38TH STREET? A. LIKE, SOME OF THEM. BUT, LIKE, I DON'T, LIKE, SHOW -- I ASSOCIATE WITH THEM, BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT, LIKE, OFFICIAL. Q. YOU HAVE A BROTHER NAMED FERNANDO? A. YES. Q. | FERNANDO'S MARKET STREET, ISN'T HE? A. NO. Q. HE'S NOT? YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2s 26 27 28 72 oP ORD POP MAPS? IN THAT'S MY OTHER BROTHER. YOUR OTHER BROTHER IS FERNANDO. YOU HAVE TWO -- NO. WHAT'S YOUR OTHER BROTHER'S NAME? ELIAZAR. HE'S MARKET STREET? IS THAT A YES? YES. GET BACK TO THIS MAP BEHIND YOU. ARE YOU GOOD WITH YES. AT THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING TWO YEARS AGO, YOU WERE THIS AREA, WERE YOU NOT? NO. WHERE? THIS IS IMPERIAL AVENUE? YES. YES. THIS IS THE CEMETERY? YES. YOU WERE LIVING THERE. WHAT PARTY WERE YOU AT? HUH? WHAT PARTY WERE YOU AT? IN MORE DOWN, LIKE SOUTHCREST. IN SOUTHCREST? UH-HUH. WHO WERE YOU WITH? JUST ME, COUPLE OF MY -- MY HOMEGIRLS. LIKE, I CAN'T HEAR YOU. GIRLS. MY GIRLS.10 1 12 13 14 as 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 73 GOING ON, A. WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THE PARTY? NOTHING. SOUNDS LIKE A PRETTY MEMORABLE PARTY. NOTHING WAS JUST YOU AND TWO GIRLS? WE WERE JUST -- WE WERE JUST RIGHT THERE, SITTING DOWN, TALKING. oP oP OPO» DP ORO» DP OP © Q. a YOU ASSOCIATE WITH MARKET STREET, TOO? No. YOU SURE? YES. EVEN THOUGH YOUR BROTHER DOES? YES. YOUR BROTHER, FERNANDO, IS HE BIG SPANKY? NO. WHO'S BIG SPANKY? I DON'T KNOW. A FRIEND THAT I MET. WELL, YOU'RE LITTLE SPANKY; RIGHT? YES. SO THERE HAS TO BE A BIG SPANKY? YEAH. WHO'S BIG SPANKY? A FRIEND. I DON'T KNOW. Is IT HIS -- I SEEN HIM BEFORE, BUT, YOU KNOW -- YOU GUYS AREN'T CLOSE? NO. YOU HAVE THE SAME NAME? YES.10 121 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 74 Q. IN THE SAME GANG? A. I'M NOT -- YES. Q. YEAH? BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHO THIS PERSON IS? A. I KNOW HIM, BUT NOT TO KICK IT OR, YOU KNOW -- Q. YOU EXPECT US TO BELIEVE THAT YOU'RE NAMED AFTER A PERSON THAT YOU DON'T KNOW, WHO'S IN THE SAME GANG? MR. SPEREDELOZZ: OBJECTION. ARGUMENTATIVE. ‘THE COURT: SUSTAINED. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. | WHY WOULD YOU BE NAMED AFTER SOMEBODY YOU DON'T KNOW? A. I DON'T KNOW. MAYBE I MIGHT LOOK LIKE HIM. I DON'T KNOW. Q. DID YOU NAME YOURSELF? A. NO. Q. WHO GAVE YOU YOUR NAME? A. LIKE -- I DID NAME MYSELF, BECAUSE -- Q. YOU SURE? A, YEAH. I NAMED MYSELF. Q. WHEN'D YOU GET JUMPED IN? A, I DIDN'T GET JUMPED IN. Q. YOU JUST GAVE YOURSELF A NAME THAT MATCHES A NAME OF ANOTHER 38TH STREET GANG MEMBER THAT YOU DON'T KNOW? A. AT FIRST I DIDN'T KNOW. BUT, LIKE, LATER ON, YOU KNOW -- I WAS TOLD TO BE LIL’ SPANKY OR SOMETHING. Q. SO YOU'RE NOT A MEMBER OF SHELLTOWN 38TH STREET? oy Q. YOU GO AROUND TELLING PEOPLE THAT YOU ARE LITTLEawe 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 15 SPANKY, FROM 38TH, AND NOTHING HAPPENS TO YOU? A, I SAY I ASSOCIATE. ASSOCIATE WITH THEM. NOBODY SAID I GOT JUMPED IN YET. Q. THIS OTHER GUY WHO'S SPANKY IN 38TH STREET ISN'T UPSET THAT YOU GO AROUND CLAIMING TO BE HIS LITTLE? A. NO. Q. EVEN THOUGH YOU DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS? A. HUH-UH. NO. Q. ISN'T IT KIND OF DISRESPECTFUL THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHO YOUR BIG IS? MR. SPEREDELOZZI: OBJECTION. ASSUMES FACTS NOT STATED. THE COURT: OVERRULED. THE WITNESS: I DON'T KNOW. BY MR. TROCHA: Q. SO IF BIG SPANKY WAS HERE RIGHT NOW, HE WOULDN'T BE UPSET BY YOU SAYING THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS? A. NO. I DON'T KNOW. Q. HOW OLD ARE YOU? A. FOURTEEN. Q. SO YOU WOULD HAVE BEEN 12 TWO YEARS AGO? A. YES. Q. AND YOU WERE OUT PARTYING IN SOUTHCREST PARK -- A. YES. Q. -- WITH TWO GIRLS? A. YES. Q. AND YOU KNOW THAT WHY? a NO:10 a 12 13 14 15 16 a7 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 76 Q. WHAT WAS IT ABOUT THAT NIGHT THAT YOU ABSOLUTELY KNOW YOU WERE THERE WHEN SOMEBODY WAS GETTING MURDERED BY YOUR HOUSE? ‘A. HOW WHAT? Q. HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU WERE THERE THAT NIGHT? A. WHAT NIGHT? Q. WELL, THE NIGHT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT. A. BECAUSE I HEARD THAT THIS HAPPENED WHEN I WAS AT THE PARTY, AND SOMEBODY GOT SHOT AT THE PARK. MR. TROCHA: NOTHING FURTHER. MR. SPEREDELOZZI: NO QUESTIONS. THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD AND PULL HIM BACK. DETECTIVE, YOU'RE BACK ON THE STAND. MARTHA GASCA, THE PEOPLE'S WITNESS, HAVING BEEN PREVIOUSLY SWORN, TESTIFIED AS FOLLOW! DIRECT EXAMINATION (RESUMED) BY MR. TROCHA: Q. OKAY. DETECTIVE, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT BACKING YOUR HOMIES. IF WE COULD GET BACK INTO THAT, IF SOMEONE IS A MEMBER OF A STREET GANG, ARE THEY EXPECTED TO BACK UP OTHER MEMBERS IN THAT GANG? A. YES. Q. WHY Is THAT? A. ‘THAT'S ONE OF THE RULES OF THE GANG. YOU DON'T LEAVE A PERSON BEHIND. YOU DON'T LEAVE A PERSON ALONE. AND WHATEVER HE IS ENGAGED IN, YOU SHOULD BE ENGAGED IN. IF THATawe ene 10 a 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 7 PERSON IS GOING TO COMMIT A CRIME, YOU BETTER BE PART OF THAT CRIME WITH THAT PERSON. IF THAT PERSON IS GETTING BEAT UP, YOU BETTER STAND UP FOR THAT PERSON AND FIGHT BACK. IF THAT PERSON -- SOMETHING HAPPENS TO THAT PERSON, YOU BETTER TAKE CARE OF -- GO AND RETALIATE FOR THAT -- WHATEVER HAPPENS TO YOUR FRIEND. ONE OF THE GUYS GETS SHOT, THE REST OF THE GANG BE EXPECTED TO GO BACK TO THE OPPOSITE GANG AND DO THE SAME THING OR TRY TO GO AND KILL. ULTIMATELY, THAT'S THEIR GOAL; TO KILL SOMEBODY ON THE OPPOSITE GANG, WHOEVER DID IT. Q. IN TERMS OF CONSEQUENCES, IF YOU DON'T BACK YOUR HOMIES, ARE THERE CONSEQUENCES? A. ‘THERE WILL BE CONSEQUENCES IN YOUR OWN GANG. YES. Q. SUCH AS? A. IT COULD BE BEATINGS, IT COULD BE KICKED YOU OUT OF IT, BEAT UP. WILL BE -- COULD BE KILLING YOU. COULD BE, YOU KNOW, BEATING YOU UP, SHOWING YOU AS A SNITCH, DISRESPECTFUL, NEVER ALLOWED TO BE THERE, DO STUFF TO YOUR FAMILY, TO YOUR PEOPLE UNTIL EVENTUALLY YOU'LL GET OUT OF THERE. IF YOU'RE NOT KILLED, YOU'RE STILL ALIVE, YOU'LL BE NOT ALLOWED TO LIVE IN THAT AREA OR ANYONE FROM YOUR FAMILY. Q. SO WITHIN THESE GANGS THERE IS AN INTERNAL SYSTEM OF PUNISHMENT? A. YES. Q. WHAT ARE SOME OTHER PUNISHABLE ACTS? A. SAME. BEATINGS, KILLINGS. Q. LET ME REPHRASE IT. WHAT OTHER ACTS COULD YOU RECEIVE A BEATING FOR, IN TERMS OF NOT PAYING DUES OR THINGS LIKE THAT?10 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 78 A. I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION. Q. SURE. YOU SAID IF YOU DON'T BACK YOUR HOMIE, YOU COULD BE PUNISHED FOR IT? A. YES. Q. WHAT OTHER THINGS, FAILING TO DO, COULD YOU BE PUNISHED FOR? A. OH, WHAT OTHER THINGS COULD BE PUNISHED? Q. CORRECT. A. IT COULD BE YOU DIDN'T DO WHAT YOU'RE EXPECTED TO DO, IN TERMS OF YOU -- LET'S SAY EVERYBODY WENT TO ROB A STORE, AND EVERYBODY GOT OUT OF THE CAR AND DID THEIR PART. BUT THERE'S THE ONE THAT DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. THAT WILL BE -- YOU GET PUNISHED FOR THAT. YOU GET BEAT UP. EITHER NOT TRUSTED, YOU GET KICKED OUT OF THE GANG. IT COULD BE THAT YOU WERE TOLD TO GO AND DO SOMETHING. GO DO A SHOOTING AT A CERTAIN PLACE. YOU DON'T DO IT. YOU'LL GET PUNISHED FOR IT. YOU DON'T ACT VIOLENT. YOU DON'T -- YOU SHOW WEAKNESS. THAT WILL BE PUNISHED. YOU DON'T -- YOU DISRESPECT ANOTHER GANG MEMBER, AN OLDER GANG MEMBER. THERE IS SOME RULES ABOUT -- WHEN THEY GET JUMPED IN. USUALLY THEY GET BEAT UP AS A WAY OF INITIATION. IF YOU FIGHT BACK -- LET'S SAY YOU FIGHT BACK. AND WE HAVE CASES WHERE THEY HAD FOUGHT BACK TO THE POINT WHERE THEY HAVE SEEN ONE OF THE OLDER GUYS HAS -- PRETTY MUCH THE YOUNG KID BEAT UP THE OLDER GUY. THAT WAS A SIGN OF DISRESPECT, AND IT WAS KILLED. THERE'S -- ANYTHING THAT THEY -- IT COULD BE ANYTHING THAT THEY ASSUME AS DISRESPECTFUL TO THE GANG OR TO A SPECIFIC PERSON IN THE GANG.