- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
MARK JANUS, )
Petitioner, )
v. ) No. 16-1466
Respondents. )
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Pages: 1 through 71
2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
3 MARK JANUS, )
4 Petitioner, )
5 v. ) No. 16-1466
9 Respondents. )
10 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
11 Washington, D.C.
13
16 at 10:06 a.m.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1 APPEARANCES:
10
13 Respondents.
14
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
1 C O N T E N T S
3 WILLIAM L. MESSENGER
9 the Petitioner 22
11 DAVID L. FRANKLIN
14 DAVID C. FREDERICK
15 On behalf of Respondent
16 AFSCME Council 31 51
18 WILLIAM L. MESSENGER
20
21
22
23
24
25
1 P R O C E E D I N G S
2 (10:06 a.m.)
7 Mr. Messenger.
18 association precedents.
6 private sector?
20 speech.
7 decisions.
19 whether -
22 interest.
9 unions.
20 tailored?
2 free riding.
9 advocacy groups.
10
10 confer.
11
5 substantially diminished?
11 result. The -
21 of -
12
3 representation.
6 required?
13 viewpoint neutrality?
17 quick questions.
21 about. Okay?
13
8 about?
14
15
16
6 generally speaking.
15 issue, correct?
17
5 --
14 demand.
19 stood up.
18
3 now articulated?
8 not subject?
19
3 million, workers.
18 affected.
20
7 violated.
21
3 Honor.
5 to that?
16 unconstitutional.
20 union.
22
10 interests.
14 counsel.
15 General Francisco.
23
1 Lehnert issue.
24 reality -
24
20 80 percent.
22 workplace -
25
2 government?
9 sector?
21 controlled by union.
23 number.
25 in a negative sense.
26
6 Your Honor.
27
5 provisions. Now -
28
9 unions.
29
21 process.
30
31
32
4 employer.
33
12 their job.
34
4 think -
8 administrations?
10 believe -
12 many?
35
8 advocacy.
10 General.
11 Mr. Franklin.
23 employees' speech.
36
14 the country.
20 constantly.
25 duties case.
37
9 employer in an employment -
19 --
38
20 --
39
7 Garcetti -
14 like.
16 behind me.
18 (Laughter.)
40
11 a different story.
13 Alito.
41
19 Private concern.
42
25 here.
43
7 was wrong.
22 --
44
24 cases -
45
4 a compelled subsidy.
7 come out any day they want and say they don't
25 represent everyone.
46
24 has?
47
48
3 be drawn there.
14 overrule Abood?
49
50
1 increase as well.
51
12 Thank you.
14 counsel.
15 Mr. Frederick.
52
23 bargaining?
53
9 of bargaining.
17 it at this time.
24 of the unions?
54
8 talking about -
18 of this case?
55
2 labor practice.
7 interests?
11 of those considerations.
14 (Laughter.)
56
2 position is wrong.
4 to -
11 rights.
21 rights.
57
19 concern.
58
25 --
59
2 --
4 workplace.
7 budget?
14 ratify it or not.
23 this body.
24 (Laughter.)
60
12 Your Honor -
14 just said?
23 make it fit.
61
20 speech.
62
1 majority.
4 applied Pickering.
63
4 because -
10 union.
64
7 not.
65
3 doesn't it?
8 formulation.
18 employees?
66
2 justification.
8 representation.
15 Abood in part?
20 correctness.
22 --
24 --
67
1 different areas.
8 happen.
68
2 the country.
3 Thank you.
5 counsel.
69
8 actually doing.
15 policy decision.
22 concern.
70
4 nonmembers -
71
2 comment?
9 was submitted.)
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
72
Official - Subject to Final Review
�
action [4] 5:23 6:1 27:23 50:12 AMERICAN [2] 1:6 4:5 avoid [1] 46:4
1 actions [2] 34:23 35:5 amicus [4] 2:8 3:8 22:17 28:2 aware [1] 50:14
10 [2] 19:2 31:20 activities [4] 5:1 7:1 37:7,25 among [2] 15:15 46:10 away [2] 49:18 69:12
10:06 [2] 1:16 4:2 activity [5] 8:13 15:18,24 69:1,3 amount [4] 26:21 60:6,8,9 awful [1] 23:17
11:08 [1] 71:8 actual [1] 23:19 analyzed [1] 41:6
16-1466 [1] 4:4 actually [3] 29:9 44:14 69:8 anecdotal [1] 20:21
B
184 [1] 20:23 add [1] 10:8 Another [2] 5:2 8:11 back [8] 12:24 23:18 26:14 48:7
1945 [1] 28:7 address [2] 14:7 65:10 answer [8] 21:4,6 27:7 34:17,19 49:5 60:22 67:15 71:3
1970 [1] 28:8 addressed [6] 50:15,20 52:8 55: 41:3,4 42:17 backed [1] 42:3
background [1] 52:3
2 10 61:4,6 anybody [1] 41:2
balance [2] 44:8 61:22
2 [4] 41:7,8,1770:14
addressing [1] 50:17 anyways [1] 22:8
adequate [1] 65:25 appear [1] 40:24 balancing [2] 61:17 62:12
20 [3] 31:20 37:13 65:12 bandied [1] 23:18
2018 [1] 1:12 administer [1] 58:8 APPEARANCES [1] 2:1
administration [1] 70:9 applicable 36:9
[1] bankruptcy [1] 63:18
22 [1] 3:9
applied [8] 6:1 13:4 14:13 42:2 61: bar 5:2,9,13 7:11 8:15 45:1,6,9
[8]
23 [1] 19:17 administrations [1] 34:8
adopt [2] 56:15 69:10 16,17,22 62:4 bargain [2] 15:10 51:8
26 [1] 1:12 bargained [3] 58:22,24 67:19
advising [1] 38:11 applies 36:13
[1]
3 advocacy [9] 7:7 9:9 10:23 15:1,1 apply [7] 4:13 6:2,21 12:19,24 28: bargained-for [3] 21:12,18 22:6
31 [4] 1:8 2:16 3:16 51:17 35:8 59:16 69:9,10 16 35:3 bargaining [44] 9:8,18,24 10:4 15:
advocating [1] 46:18 applying [2] 14:19,20 8,17,17 17:1 22:2 23:4 24:8,13 26:
35 [1] 3:12
affect [12] 17:2,3 57:23 59:6 60:9 appropriate [3] 26:12 57:24 60:2 17 27:24 29:7,12,20 30:2,3,12 31:
4 64:23 65:12,13,15 67:12,13 70:18 approved [1] 6:12 13,22 32:6 37:4 38:14 47:8 52:23
4 [1] 3:4 affected [4] 19:7,18 62:17 70:24 arbitration [1] 28:8 53:5,9,16 54:24 55:20 57:17 58:5
40 [1] 51:21 affects [7] 33:21 53:23 62:9 64:13, Archie [1] 28:5 59:12 60:18,18 61:4,7 64:1,6 65:
area [1] 50:13 21 67:22 68:24
5 14,19 70:22
bargains [1] 31:18
affiliation [1] 42:7 areas [1] 67:1
5 62:6,25 63:16
[3]
basic [4] 22:21 49:19 65:7 66:19
affirmatively [1] 43:6 arguably [1] 17:16
50 [2] 12:20 32:23 basically [5] 12:18 35:3 55:21 56:
AFSCME [6] 2:16 3:16 17:1 51:17 argue [2] 35:25 39:13
51 [1] 3:16 22 69:11
70:10,12 argued [1] 28:2
6 agency [22] 4:24 5:5 8:1,24 22:23 arguing [4] 34:1 36:24 39:11 69: basis [3] 23:6 38:16 62:18
7:00 [1] 55:13 aggregate [2] 69:1 70:17 8 51:16 56:8 57:14 60:25 68:7 19
70s [1] 13:10 agitation [1] 62:20 arguments [1] 51:21 becomes [2] 57:9,12
75 [1] 70:13 ago 28:3 51:22
[2] arises 62:13
[1] beg [1] 23:15
agree [6] 27:2 30:15 39:10 44:22 Arizona [1] 20:1 begin [1] 12:25
8 beginning [1] 51:20
45:11 55:21 around [3] 36:13 50:17 58:7
8:30 [1] 55:13 behalf [14] 2:4,8,12,15 3:4,7,12,15,
agreement 59:12 64:4
[2] articulated 18:3 [1]
80 [3] 24:17,20 37:11 19 4:9 22:17 35:14 51:17 68:8
agreements [5] 24:13 26:17 27: aside [1] 39:25
9 24 31:13 67:22 asks [4] 17:7 64:12,14,18 behavioral [1] 48:24
agrees [1] 31:6 aspects [1] 28:22 behind [1] 39:16
94 [1] 24:12
AL [1] 1:8 assess [1] 41:9 belief [1] 10:25
A ALITO [33] 11:12,22 12:4 27:18 38: assign [1] 52:18 believe [3] 25:3 27:21 34:10
a.m [3] 1:16 4:2 71:8 21 39:8,17,21,25 40:3,13,14 41:10, assignments 57:21 [1] benefit [2] 9:5 53:21
ability [2] 33:11 46:8 18 42:10,16 43:23 44:1,7 52:20 assistant [4] 40:16,17,24 42:17 benefits [3] 23:11 30:1 61:1
association 4:18 5:2,9,10,16 7: best 41:1 60:3
[2]
able 9:17 46:12 52:5
[3] 53:1,3,10 56:5,14 57:13 62:5,23 [7]
Abood [26] 4:12,22 8:6 13:10 14:9, 63:5,15 66:11,23 67:2 11 45:9 better [1] 32:13
15,20,21 19:15,16 26:22 37:17 43: allegations [1] 23:23 associations [3] 5:13 8:15 45:1 between [10] 32:3,6 38:22 42:11,
18 48:6,14 51:22 65:6 66:12,15, allocated 65:17 [1] assumes 10:6 [1] 20 44:21 47:18 52:10 55:13 63:13
21,23 67:2,4,6,11,25 allow [5] 15:16 46:4 47:25 50:9 53: assuming [1] 10:7 beyond [3] 10:9 50:23 65:2
Abood's [3] 4:15,20 66:19 20 assumption [1] 22:4 bid [1] 63:9
above [1] 10:9 allowed 33:10[1] assumptions 23:17 38:16[2] big [1] 44:20
above-entitled [1] 1:14 allows [3] 15:8,12 47:24 attempt [1] 4:19 blink [1] 47:3
accept 68:20
[1] almost [2] 26:3,18 attention [1] 13:23 board [4] 17:3 20:4 63:17 67:16
acceptable [1] 11:10 already 10:9 33:20 34:7 35:21 attenuated 68:14
[4] [1] body [3] 16:20 59:23 64:15
attorney [5] 40:16,17,23,24 42:18 bona 42:3
[1]
according [2] 24:11,23 alternative [1] 8:17
account 10:12 [1] alternatives [1] 8:16 attract [2] 49:9 52:5 bonded [1] 46:22
accounts [1] 40:12 although [2] 10:18 30:15 attractive [1] 49:11 boss [1] 39:15
achieve [1] 60:2 amazing [1] 32:19 attracts [1] 60:3 both [3] 18:9,13 23:18
across 17:3 20:4 63:16
[3] Amendment [22] 4:13 10:24 11:9 auditorium 17:9,18,22
[3] Brandeis [1] 12:22
authority [4] 10:8 35:22 38:25 54: break 38:4,18 41:23
[3]
Act [9] 7:1 12:1 13:12,12 14:22 36: 14:14 15:2,14,24 16:4,10,19 17:
11 43:4 52:1 61:15 13 19:17 20:3,6 29:10 41:23 43: 22 breaks [1] 38:17
acting [2] 36:4 39:20 17 55:6 56:23,25 61:11 68:21 available 11:4 38:3 59:18
[3] BREYER [19] 12:15 14:8 20:24 21: