Stephanie Jay: Hello everyone and welcome to the podcast, “Synthesis Subjects!

” I am your host
Stephanie Jay, and today I am joined with the author of College Prepares People for Life, Freeman
Hrabowski, and the author of Hidden Intellectualism, Gerald Graff. It is great to have you two on the
podcast. These authors both have strong opinions on the education system in our country and will be
sharing a lot of those with us today. Starting off, could you, Freeman Hrabowski, give us an idea on your
stance on the importance of education in our society?

Freeman Hrabowski: Yes of course. Thank you for having me on the show! There are so many aspects of
going to college that are important, especially with the job scene. College graduates are much more
likely to be employed than those with only a high school diploma. These individuals will also receive a
substantially higher pay in contrast (Hrabowski 260). College is a very important part of our
environment, and we need to see that more clearly.

Stephanie Jay: Thank you for sharing. Now, Gerald Graff has a different perspective on the school
system. Could you share a bit on that, Gerald?

Gerald Graff: What I perceive about the education system is that we need to teach these students in a
way that they like to learn. Instead of forcing subjects on them such as history and literature, we seem
to suppress subjects like sports, cars, and even fashion. We can interest them even more about the
subjects at hand if we present them in a way that intrigues them (Graff 265).

Stephanie Jay: You talked quite a bit about your early life in the essay and how it progressed into your
intellectual life. Could you speak about this?

Gerald Graff: Well when I was in school myself, things such as sports books and magazines interested
me. And in my reading, I began to learn the rudiments of the intellectual life: how to make an argument,
weigh different kinds of evidence, move between particulars and generalizations, summarize the views
of others, and enter a conversation about ideas (Graff 267). These things have shaped me into who I am
today, and it had nothing to do with the core curriculum subjects.

Stephanie Jay: Freeman Hrabowski, what do you think about this? Do you think it is important to stick
by the main subjects instead of branching off as Graff has stated?

Freeman Hrabowski: I believe it is very important to value our education at hand. A strong grounding in
the liberal arts and the ability to think broadly is a wonderful thing (Hrabowski 262). We can branch off
from the normal subjects, if the students are getting the education they need.

Stephanie Jay: Do you think it is important to have someone to look up to in order to remind us of the
education we are allowed to have?

Freeman Hrabowski: I definitely think it is important to remember those that came before us. I’m
reminded of that each day when I walk past a statue of the late Walter Sondheim that stands in the
heart of our campus and reminds us of the power of education each day (Hrabowski 262). Fortunately,
college had given him a strong grounding in the liberal arts and the ability to think broadly (Hrabowski
262).

Stephanie Jay: And what do you think, Gerald?

Gerald Graff: “I think it is very important to remember the people and learn about them as well. For
example, when Marilyn Monroe married the playwright Arthur Miller in 1956 after divorcing the retired
baseball star Joe DiMaggio, the symbolic triumph of geek over jock suggested the way the wind was
blowing” (Graff 257). It is great to see a change in history and see how they can be incorporated into our
learning to show how times have changed as well.

Stephanie Jay: Gerald when you talk about incorporating these people into our learning, how would you
suggest that the education system do this?

Gerald Graff: By learning about each time period, we can see how life truly was back then and reflect on
how it shaped us today. Why I brought up Marilyn Monroe’s choice of men was to show how the 1950s
were not simply hostile toward intellectualism, but divided and ambivalent. It shows a turning point of
the citizens at the time (Graff 256).

Stephanie Jay: And Hrabowski, what do you think about Graff’s perception of the education system? Do
you agree?

Freeman Hrabowski: I think it is important that we learn to grow more in our society, no matter what
way we chose to learn. If you are able to gain a college education from only learning from sports
magazines, that would be a great opportunity. It just is very important to get an education in this world.

Stephanie Jay: Do you both find that competitiveness is a factor in our school systems?

Gerald Graff: Well of course. School contained plenty of competition, which became more invidious as
one moved up the ladder. In this competition, points were scored not by making arguments, but by a
show of information or vast reading, by grade-grubbing, or other forms of one-upmanship (Graff 268). It
can be a good thing for the students, but also a very disheartening thing as well.

Freeman Hrabowski: I certainly agree. There are so many different opportunities and scholarships, that
students may feel the need to compete with others, but if they are solid in their own education, they
will not feel a need to.

Stephanie Jay: Well, it has been great talking to both of you. I want to wrap up with the last question of:
What is the most important thing that you could agree on?

Freeman Hrabowski: I would say the most important thing to agree on is the importance of the
education and school system. Gerald and I both know that these young people’s lives will be affected by
the path they choose to take. This is all based on an education and getting your child in the college that
is right for them.

Gerald Graff: I would agree completely. No matter how they do it, the students should be learning new
information.

Stephanie Jay: Thank you both for joining me today on the podcast. In my opinion, I would have to
agree with Freeman Hrabowski on the subject. College is such a wonderful thing that we have the
opportunity to do, and unless you are financially unable to do it, I would say it is a great choice. Yes,
there are many outside subjects that interest me such as sports, fashion, and cars, but learning the core
curriculum will definitely help you more in the world of college. As Freeman says: “Yes, colleges prepare
people for jobs, but more critically they prepare people for life” (Hrabowski 260). We had Freeman
Hrabowski, a great author and an inspiring person, and Gerald Graff, a great author as well, and gives a
great stance on the subject at hand on the podcast. It was a pleasure to have you both on. Until next
time!

Works Cited:

Hrabowski, Freeman. “They Say/I Say.” Colleges Prepare People for Life, edited by Gerald Graff, Cathy
Birkenstein and Russel Durst, W.W. Norton & Company, Inc., 2006, 259-263.

Graff, Gerald. “They Say/I Say.” Hidden Intellectualism, edited by Gerald Graff, Cathy Birkenstein and
Russel Durst, W.W. Norton & Company, Inc., 2006, 264-271.