GH 15 DR X Importantreading

http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=18393.
Hazzzard777, hit on an important key that I have subtly eluded too in that past
that I'll cover in greater detail. I just wanted more of you to figure this out on
your own before it is highlighted and brought back to the forefront. Does the
choices of AAS have an outcome on the development of arms for this program and or
any Piston style routine?
Absolutely yes!!!!
What many of you have come to realize the Four Horsemen in particular which
aromatize (Test/deca/Adrol/dbol) will bring about the greatest growth and
thickness. The role the right amounts of estrogen play is a critical part to this
equation. Think of the simple example of women who experience menopause. Their loss
of estrogen over time is associated with accelerated muscle loss, and muscle
strength. I have yet to see anyone develop a great thick physique on the anti-
estrogen hardening/cutting compounds, EVER!!! And it will never happen without the
AGGRESSIVE use of INSULIN/GH and or a physique having acquired a higher PRIOR set
base of muscle tissue nuclei.
This all comes down to how those particular AAS hydrate the cell and at the same
time also create the unwanted bloat. A hydrated muscle cell has increased
permeability. This allows more amino acids into the muscle cell which over time
will build up contractile proteins (actin and myosin). This increases your muscles
ability to perform physical work (Piston Style). Time under tension increases, thus
the recruitment of MORE and MORE muscle fibers, which will in turn increase the
number of fibers stimulated and broken down. This micro-trauma, which is tiny
damage to the fibers, play a significant role in future muscle growth. Muscle
hypertrophy then sets another cascade of events into motion. It brings on a need
for remodeling of the connective tissue as well as in the muscle fascia. Therefore,
the overall higher synthesis rate of muscle collagen proteins (THICKNESS). Whereas
the myofibrillar proteins are responsible for the contractile capability of the
muscle, the muscle connective tissue is essential for force transmission and
stability of the skeletal muscle structure. This critical hydration of the cells is
why the Four horseman shine. Tren cannot do this in isolation!!!!
Lastly, remember I mentioned the important function of skeletal muscle. It is more

then a showcase, or regulated to the mere role of moving the body. Skeletal muscle
is the primary reservoir of amino acids for other tissues. Muscle amino acid
reserves are the only storage depot capable of large losses without compromising
the ability to sustain life. A hydrated muscle cell due to estrogen will retain
more of it's amino acids during critical in times of dieting, stress, or even
traumatic injury.
Furthermore, I will use questions to bluntly drive another message home. In order
to develop a physique of the 70's to early 90's, I need to untangle and clean up
this mess of conflicting and incorrect information.
1) Did the physiques of that generation ever use designer oral AAS? NO. Don't waste
you time or health on them. Leave them for the fitness/physique guys to be the
Ginny pigs re-testing them out. I will say this one more time. These designer AAS
and their analogs have ALWAYS been available since the 1950's. They too were at
some point ALL tested by the large pharmaceutical drug companies to bring to the
market place. There were valid negative reasons each one these AAS did not make the
cut!!! The only reason they are available now is NOT because of their superiority,
but to skirt rules and laws regarding AAS. Listen to me....
2) Did the physiques of that generation ever use designer peptides? NOPE!!!!!!! Not
needed....
3) Did the physiques of that generation use tren as their base. NO!!! Waste of time
without insulin and too much Peripheral damage to the body systems to be remain
healthy for the long haul.
4) Did the physiques of that generation use IGF1 or the highly coveted Increlex?
NO. Focus in on what is available and works. They used GH in lower amounts in the
off-season and ramped it up while dieting for competitions.
Uncomplicate things. Stick with the basics!! It worked then, it works now and
foralways....
DrX
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Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

� Reply #727 on: November 26, 2014, 05:12:36 AM �
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� Reply #726 on: November 25, 2014, 10:46:18 PM �
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This is by far one of my favorite threads. I try and go in and knock a few pages
out a day. I had only read certain portions and after seeing how educated Dr.X is,
I've made a point to try and get the whole thread read as time allows.
I really like your old school bread and butter approach. I am a fan of common
sense, and you sir optimize that.
Strength is never a weakness - Mark Bell
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Quote from: GDF-8 on November 23, 2014, 09:34:25 PM
Quote from: HazZzard777 on November 23, 2014, 09:21:35 PM
Hey DrX
I wanted to say thank you for having you here on this board and thank you for this
thread
I started deca for the first time a couple weeks back and my second dbol run some
days ago. What a great hormone dbol is. My mood is just very good in dbol.
Today I tried out your arm workout and it's been a long time since I had this much
fun during a training session. I was in pain at all times but the intensity was
HIGH. I really felt the dbol working.
I'm a big fan of the physiques of the 70s and it's the first time right now I'm
blasting deca and dbol. The thickness today was insane. The pump really really
good. Never have I looked bigger.
I consider using deca and dbol lots of times in the future. These hormones are just
so much fun (not like tren on the mind) and they can give me the look I am striving
for. The "golden-era look"
i too am running a small blast of deca and dbol a friend got for me ,30mg to start
on the dbol and 1250-1500 to start on the deca, ideally i think i wanna be at
atlesat 2g of gear but ill see how this stand alone deca goes at these dosages.
iknow in the past deca cleared my acne, and gyno went away, im way to sensitive to
test anything over 375mg and i go to shit ( not bloat ) just little to no
conversion to dht and double conversion to estrogen.. sucks. Deca does kill my
penis thou, even cialis at 20-30mg cant combat the softness deca brings to an
erection. :( ***** oddly enough real brand name cialis usually works but generics
just dont seem to do the work...
i only wanna gain 5lbs of mass, and go back to just recomping and maintain my
weight and leanness for my job.
I'm running 350mg test, 250mg mast, 600mg deca and 30mg dbol
libido is through the roof to the point I can barely concentrate at work sometimes
because all I think of is sex
deca and dbol should put on 5lbs of mass in no time. And if not, up either one or
both.
tren and "REAL" masteron make me 17 year olds again with sexual performance. i just
need to balance out my estrogen, my testis have shrank again so i imagine i messed
up my estrogen too much, when they get fuller ill see what happens when they fill
out a bit then i believe my estrogen is in a good normal range.
yeah i believe this combo will add alot of mass, iwill just eat strict. after that
i think im done in trying to grow more, just work on the 'look' and alot of that
will be running cosmetic compounds. Npp, masteron, eq and test no ester when i move
back to canada and have access to it. im replacing tren with npp, i simply think im
done with tren at my age, zamba has shown me how to cycle it so i could run it year
round.
Drx can chime in on this but i believe with the deca ill be doing all 6ml shot once
a week. im over doing daily injects, and im curious through self experiment how
this anabolic surge some of my 80's coach mentors have talked about... i know the
common thing now is "stable" blood levels, but im curious with absorption rates via
scar tissue and other roadblocks now stable you can get it. Alot of good depo shots
are administered once every 4-6 weeks. Trial and error on my body.
This.
on week 5 of 750deca/50dbol/50mg proviron, 150 test I pin it all e7d, life is

great, hair shed/acne first 3 weeks, but both are now subsiding and seem to be
going under control itself
the acne is going away on shoulders, strong as a bull, i'm up 12-16lbs since i
began, i am full, and it's starting to really do its thing. libido is great.
this is my "second" run with deca, last time i brought deca in when my body had a
gram of test and no ai with it. i'm the same weight of this time of last year, i
just look much tighter and mature. and like a bodybuilder.
thanks dr x. couldnt hang with the anadrol 50ed, i cut it out on day 23, lol.
nausea effected appetite way too much.
I will admit, I feel like the first few days of my shot, the fullness is starting
to get real, but i start to deflate at the end of the week per-se, but it's really
not a bad look, it's new each weekend
looking forward to cutting on tren now in febuary and see what new slabs of meat I
acquired.
WHAT THE FUCK IS DIET?
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This is by far my favorite thread. I can read through it and pick up on something I
missed the last time. Thanks for all the information you've put out here dr x
Living the good life; fighting the good fight.
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Hey DrX
thread
both.
tren and "REAL" masteron make me 17 year olds again with sexual performance. i just
need to balance out my estrogen, my testis have shrank again so i imagine i messed
up my estrogen too much, when they get fuller ill see what happens when they fill
out a bit then i believe my estrogen is in a good normal range.
yeah i believe this combo will add alot of mass, iwill just eat strict. after that
i think im done in trying to grow more, just work on the 'look' and alot of that
will be running cosmetic compounds. Npp, masteron, eq and test no ester when i move
back to canada and have access to it. im replacing tren with npp, i simply think im
done with tren at my age, zamba has shown me how to cycle it so i could run it year
round.
Drx can chime in on this but i believe with the deca ill be doing all 6ml shot once
a week. im over doing daily injects, and im curious through self experiment how
this anabolic surge some of my 80's coach mentors have talked about... i know the
common thing now is "stable" blood levels, but im curious with absorption rates via
scar tissue and other roadblocks now stable you can get it. Alot of good depo shots
are administered once every 4-6 weeks. Trial and error on my body.
1 get shreddedish.
2 introduce introduce higher test/Npp, Front load equipoise
3 Cycle hola acatato
4 lil arom to keep bloof away & keep better lipid profile, increase igf1
5 gradual increase of dose 100mg to grow
Log:www.gh15.org/forum/index.p
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Hey DrX
thread
both.
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Hey DrX
thread
1 get shreddedish.
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Hey DrX
thread
DrX
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Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:2014PhotosUpdatedPg21

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Quote from: alphadoe on November 11, 2014, 09:39:29 PM
Quote from: DrX on August 22, 2014, 02:03:12 PM
Quote from: infobrokerz on August 21, 2014, 12:55:58 AM
Awesome application of trial and error, to find what works, and then tweaking it,
to further the results.. Outstanding DrX!
Now that the year has gone by, it was time for me to take an honest assessment of
the progress made, and the lessons learned. Some critical adjustments to this year
will be made based on my own personal past flawed hypothesis when it came to the
role of insulin and muscle gain. It was truly a year of understanding my body
better. My first mistake was actually the over use of insulin. Because I was new to
the onset of diabetes, my main concern was controlling blood sugars. I also assumed
the use of slin would leverage my net gains of lean tissue. I was partially
correct. Even though my doses were around 50iu of R per day, which in today's
standards is extremely low, it was too much for me. That dose then required
excessive carbs that were not necessary or needed at all. My goal is to cut the
insulin intake to half of what I was using, bringing back in line with what was
objectively used to build the physiques in the 80's!!!!!
The second new experiment I will run only at night will also be the use of Humulin
N (NPH), which is an intermediate-acting Insulin with a 1-1.5 hours onset peaking
at 6-8 hours. This will help me in couple of ways. First, it will help keep blood
glucose levels lower at night, without the use of any carbs or calories, thus
lowering my calorie needs while keeping me anabolic during the night.
I will need just enough slin to leverage glycogen stores and energy levels in the
gym to maximize piston style of training. Lowering my R intake will open more
windows to incorporate additional fats into my diet, thus decreasing the amounts of
unnecessary carbs needed. You must remember insulin over certain doses require
pharmaceutical grade, name brand GH in HIGH amounts to be ALWAYS present. In other
words for me personally, the amounts of GH needed for 50iu of R is not financially
practical or efficient at this time.
Cardio will remain at 6 days a week, 30 mins a day fasted first thing in the
morning, with Metformin at 1000mg per day to keep cells sensitive (500mg
morning/500mg night). HGH will still be at 2-3iu day.... If present.
So this bring me back to where my major change will be. Doses of AAS will go up. I
will test the boundaries of what is safe and within limits for my genetics. I will
stick to a high test, and deca base rotating in key anabolics every 5-6 weeks or
so. The periodical use of orals will be utilized rotating in Dbol/Adro/winny/var.
Doses of orals will also go up substantially to levels my body will be comfortable
with.
One of the disappointing reactions I faced was the use of EQ. I have used it over
many years, but have never put the link to poor libido and eq together until now.
You learn as you go by. I literally feel like a monk or a priest on eq as it kills
all sex drive. So at this point I will no longer have that as part of my stack. I
will use primo in its place.
Now that the lab work has been done and everything looks fine it is time to start
growing again. Looking forward to another fruitful year....
Here are a couple of great quotes from GH15 himself that also validates what was
know about the use of slin and GH in the 80's
basic training
aas... fda gh low dose insulin low dose
eating normal! meat and potatos...I mean basic food fish chiken meat potatos rice
pasta ofcoure now you have to make sure it is all organic...back then it was now
its all bad bad bad so must make sure you buy it organic and not chemicaly fucked
times changed...
gh15 approved
no 30-60 iu is low dose for a large fella
old style bodybuilding can also be done with OUT insulin...on aas only with no to
very low dose gh at 2-4 iu ...this is a preferred methos of many in the 80s some
even took it to the end of 90s but they really never made it in the end of 90s they
stuck everyone passed by them they were doing reguinal local shoes and didn't win
them didn't even get close to winning them
in the 80s it was somewhat diference and 2-4 iu with aas could get you
somewhere ...still the use only increased with time
20-30 units is low dose but also MUST go with fda gh

gh15 approved
DrX
Do you believe that Zane used insulin as a pre contest way to fill out in the early
eighties? Or that Arnold used it in his final Olympia prep?
You had me thinking for a few days and I had to go back to old 1980 Olympia
pictures to give you my personal opinion. That was Arnold's last contest prior to
the 1975 Olympia. To come up with an answer, we will use some "rough justice".
Another level of complexity with slin use would be the trial and errors one has to
go through during growth/calorie surplus phases to be comfortable and precise using
it. Finding that right ratio of carbs to insulin needs only come through testing
and time. Using insulin while dieting in pre-contest mode is much more complicated
then the use in the off-season where you can fall back on extra carbs when needed.
Here were my questions. 1) Did Arnold bring a fuller, thicker physique into his
final contest vs all his prior ones. 2) Was his weight up? 3) Did his conditioning
suffer? All tell tail signs of slin use.
My humble opinion, NO. While his weight was always embellished, his true weight
dieted down for the Olympias was probably in the mid to high 220's. And based on
the pictures he brought the same relative physique to both contests. But, could he
have used slin to fill out, sure. No one knows but him and he will take that to the
grave. The one thing I can say for sure, he was not using Humalog, the faster
acting easier version today's bodybuilders do to fill out. Humalog was manufactured
by Lilly and was first released in the mid 90's. So the next question is where did
slin use really begin. That was when you would see physiques take a more fuller
thicker version. I would say the mid to late 80's.
DrX
* 75Olympia.jpg (1352.38 kB, 3897x1901 - viewed 229 times.)
* 80MrOlympia.jpg (72.83 kB, 620x350 - viewed 227 times.)
* 74Olympia.jpg (44.6 kB, 565x627 - viewed 221 times.)
* FrankArnLou.jpg (33.4 kB, 500x420 - viewed 225 times.)

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have been trying to bring up my arms for a while. tried the arm workout you posted
earlier in this thread...
all i have to say is thank you. so much.

best arm pump i have ever had, really appreciated the time you took to outline that
man!
trying to learn, trying to get big
6' 210
infobrokerz
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^^^Quality answers as always by DrX
DrX
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Quote from: loltt on November 05, 2014, 03:10:43 PM
After reading your posts on dbol and was wondering what dose you'd recommend for
someone at 210 8%? Ive no issues running 200 tren ed so thought id give you a shout
to see what you'd recommend? (I don't have as much dbol exp! Highest has been 75mg)
This is one of those questions that is actually very hard to answer. And for a
number of reasons. First I do not really know how much muscle tissue you truly
carry. Second, your sensitivity to Dbol will be different to you response to tren
or to any other AAS. To make matters worse, it also HIGHLY depends on how close
your total dose is to saturation. In other words any dose beyond a certain genetic
threshold will cause additional side effects and strain on your body systems with
no additional positives. I'll give you a very oversimplified example. Say we have
two sets of identical twins. One is running 500mg of test a week with 500mg of
tren, and the other is running 500mg's of test a week and 500mg a week of Eq. They
both add in 50mgs dbol to the equation per day. The one twin on the test/tren has
an extremely bad response to dbol at that dose, where as the twin on 500mgs of test
and eq has a purely positive reaction to that dose. One twin has to compensate by
lowering his dose of dbol, while the other can in time raise his dose with no
additional sides, reaping all the rewards.
The amounts of dbol one can tolerate has to be adjusted based on: 1) Total AAS dose
2) The "harshness" of other AAS concurrently running 3) Body fat to lean tissue
ratio 4) Your own unique sensitivity or response to dbol. Over time as one lowers
body fat and increases lean muscle tissue the stronger a dose that can be utilized.
Always start low and move up from there. Even 20mgs a day of dbol can be mind
blowing if used appropriately.
DrX
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Wow public holiday in NZ just read this whole 23 page thread. Going to utilise the
knowledge learnt. Certainly the physique now is not as majestic as the 70-80s.
Thanks for taking time to post and share your stories and knowledge Doctor.
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Hello , today's question is your medical and personal experience with using intra
work out sugars. Whats the pros and cons of spiking insulin whilst training and how
does it impact on post work out carb intake.
Example im not on slin, whole family have diabties i dont yet.. almost 40 years
young been hypo most my life.
Pre training banana, 35g dextrose, intra been eating chocolate or a cookie/brownie
post training is 35g dextrose 30-400g real pineapple and then my first meal after
is a carb meal of say 1 bagelor 300g low gi potatoe or 250g white rice.
I feel like a god adding those sugars in half way through my 75 min session, but im
curious what happening with insulin sensitivity and anabolic reactions.
any insight and little story to go with the your point would be lovely
1 get shreddedish.
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with.
basic training
times changed...
gh15 approved
gh15 approved
DrX
Do you believe that Zane used insulin as a pre contest way to fill out in the early
eighties? Or that Arnold used it in his final Olympia prep?
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Quote from: DrX on November 11, 2014, 03:19:30 PM
Great post!
hits true to home,im a mean mugger to a degree, i let people work in etc etc. but
im in a different world in the gym during my workout time. Other wise i cant get
anything done... Ive learned now over the years it might be best as a PT to train
at 5am or at a different gym so you dont run into clients.
Thoughts and experience with undulating periodization?? ill give you an example.
There are some top guys from the 80-90 ive got to mentor under over the years and
something ive seen pop up a few times and believe to be my best bulks... came from
doing a 3 week undulating periodization
week 1 , piston style training rep range of 10 and more sets , little rest
( perfect form, focuses on contraction couples with piston style )
week 2 , compound setting rep range 12-15 more rests.
week 3 , rep range 5-8 , 3 sets only 3 exercises only with longer rest ( seems like
a holiday after a week of proper compound setting )
back to week 1...
Now everything Ive ever goggled has come up short with actual user experience on
undulating periodization, or the general idea is that its shit or poor program ,
Charles Poliquin wrote a brief article on the matter and gave it a big thumbs up. I
know its been good for me, its hard to do proper compound sets with out someone
there to help you.
Just wanted to see if you have every tried this out for yourself, and with your
experience with older lifting styles if you have any feeback good or back on this
style of periodization.
Thanks in advance
GDF-8, I'll begin with an question to your question. Do any top bodybuilders of any
generation build their physiques on complicated programs that are generally
marketing ploys to SELL services, books, seminars, supps or were they built on the
SIMPLE basics and time. I have said this before, guys like Charles Poliquin are in
this businesses to make money selling something different or unique. He has to
stand out and look smart. Has Charles ever produced any top end bodybuilder with
his complicated models. NO, AND HE NEVER WILL!!!
End results guys. End results.....
I will take this a bit further, so forgive me for being so blunt. I was watching a
video with Charles Glass training a young aspiring bodybuilder for an upcoming
show. They started training chest with this complicated over the top hammer
strength exercise done in decline fashion in a way again to make Charles Glass look
knowledgeable. Its all marketing. That exercise, based on where the elbows were
pointing and body positioning was an absolute waste of time. But it makes Glass
look like he knows something special the rest of us do not. Did Charles build his
chest when he was competitive using machines? NO!!! Its all smoke and mirrors....
Personally, I do not really believe in periodization or it's selling points and

have never ever used it. Can adding variety help break plateaus well helping to
prevent injury by over training? Sure, but it's true design is anchored around the
false premise of growth for the NATURAL athlete. That is who the TARGET audience
is. We are NOT. The simple truth is as a bodybuilder, I am on heavy amounts of AAS,
and very recently, GH and insulin for my diabetes. Recovery for me is different as
for the majority of bodybuilders pushing the dose envelope. Periodization does
help some stay physically challenged and mentally stimulated. I for one do not
really need this. I do not get bored doing the same regimen workout after workout,
week after week, others may. If I need time off. I will take time away, But the
basic core exercises and routines are performed every week like clock work. No
excuses..... consistency is the key.
There was a great learning point for me that came in the form of a top end 90's
armature. He had developed some of the best biceps I have personally seen to date.
Not this round Pillsbury Doughboy soft gooey look you see so common today, but
these striated dense, solid granite cannon balls. This was before the internet, so
his only coverage was magazines shots that had him using fake weights to help sell
his persona. He came to my gym once to train with a member where I over-heard him
discuss his true bicep routine. This was outside the fake one's sold to magazine
readers written by ghost writers. I was not apart of their conversation, or
training with them but was listening to their conversation intently. He said his
true favorite exercise for biceps was the barbell curl with the straight long bar.
But his defining rule was NOT go any heavier the 25lb plates on the bar. Every time
he said he would go heavier he would develop severe wrist and elbow pain and could
not FEEL his biceps work. Not only did the heavier weight hurt, but he could never
get his arms to grow with anything above those 25lbs plates. He perfected his form
and technique with "lighter weight". That constant weight over time developed his
arms. No fancy program or schemes, just a simple uncomplicated exercise with great
form and TIME on his side.
My point being if he was not intuitive with his own body by using lighter weight
and perfect form, periodization could THEN be used as a tool for coping with the
pain and slower growth.
My second example may hit home for many of you reading this. During my years of
learning form and techniques my shoulders have had their far share of EXTREME
abuse. There were times I could not even get my arms over my head to shampoo my
hair after training chest due to the pain I was in. I had to learn over time the
number one disruptive exercise to maintain 100% pain free shoulders was to
eliminate flat barbell bench. It had become an ego exercise that was causing
extreme and chronic issues. Remember back then it was all about the chest. The
chest not the abs defined you as a bodybuilder. The more I read and understood how
the flat bench worked, the more I understood its superiority, yet the extreme
limitations it places especially as you age. The flat bench was done for good and
was replaced with dumbbells. My shoulders have been pain free ever since.
One of my closest friendships is with a member I met many years ago who was going
through the same chronic shoulder issues I was. He was at a point or close to for a
shoulder operation, to deal with his pain. But he was also lucky enough that his
shoulders were not to far gone. Not one person in his years of lifting told him to
just simply STOP flat benching to resolve his issues. Instead he was given the same
old instructions, strengthen your rotator cuff, blah, blah , blah.....It took some
time, but by just changing his selection of exercise, he is also pain free now.
Would periodization have worked for him either? NO.
As a bodybuilder you must FIRST find and resolve the underlying issues.... Is it
form and technique? Is it a lack of good solid nutrition for recovery? Is it over-
training or under-training? You have to be intuitive....
DrX
I love your honesty and blunt way of putting things, i myself like the no bullshit
approach to things in life. And your are so spot on about the marketing thing. I
never saw it like that, i knew it in my head and it was right in front of me yet i
just didn't focus in on it. Getting on to 40 now... im starting to lose my own way
with my training in regards to to much or too little. The balance with being a bit
bigger but healthy in the later years of life. Seems HGH may be the best bet, but
in Australia its pricey... to much.
6 day spit similar to yours, but thinking i may knock it back to 4 days, so no arm
day and it would eliminate splitting back up, although i really like having the two
back days and feel my lats are being a real strong point for my average beach body
look that is starting to give it a bit of freakishness.
Great read and thanks for taking all that amount of time to write back .
favourite read of the day, by far.
My log: http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=26437.0
"yu look incredible,, absolitly incredible the avatar picture,, very good
gh15 approved"
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Great post!
back to week 1...
there to help you.
Thanks in advance

armature. He had developed some of the best biceps I have personally seen to date.
But his defining rule was NOT go any heavier the 25lb plates on the bar. Every time
he said he would go heavier he would develop severe wrist and elbow pain and could
not FEEL his biceps work. Not only did the heavier weight hurt, but he could never
get his arms to grow with anything above those 25lbs plates. He perfected his form
and technique with "lighter weight". That constant weight over time developed his
arms. No fancy program or schemes, just a simple uncomplicated exercise with great
form and TIME on his side.
DrX
I love your honesty and blunt way of putting things, i myself like the no bullshit
approach to things in life. And your are so spot on about the marketing thing. I
never saw it like that, i knew it in my head and it was right in front of me yet i
just didn't focus in on it. Getting on to 40 now... im starting to lose my own way
with my training in regards to to much or too little. The balance with being a bit
bigger but healthy in the later years of life. Seems HGH may be the best bet, but
in Australia its pricey... to much.
6 day spit similar to yours, but thinking i may knock it back to 4 days, so no arm
day and it would eliminate splitting back up, although i really like having the two
back days and feel my lats are being a real strong point for my average beach body
look that is starting to give it a bit of freakishness.
Great read and thanks for taking all that amount of time to write back .
1 get shreddedish.
DrX
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ReplyQuote
Great post!
back to week 1...
there to help you.
Thanks in advance

amateur. He had developed some of the best biceps I have personally seen to date.
But his defining rule was NOT to go any heavier the 25lb plates on the bar. Every
time he said he would go heavier he would develop severe wrist and elbow pain and
could not FEEL his biceps work. Not only did the heavier weight hurt, but he could
never get his arms to grow with anything above those 25lbs plates. He perfected his
form and technique with "lighter weight". That constant weight over time developed
his arms. No fancy program or schemes, just a simple uncomplicated exercise with
great form and TIME on his side.
DrX
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After reading your posts on dbol and was wondering what dose you'd recommend for
someone at 210 8%? Ive no issues running 200 tren ed so thought id give you a shout
to see what you'd recommend? (I don't have as much dbol exp! Highest has been 75mg)
Diluted56
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Loved that post!! This log is a never ending journey :)
"it is a spiritual journey to the core of your exsistance with the purest form of
help human can have by his or her side...IRON and HORMONES"
My Log:
http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=35378.0
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Great post!
back to week 1...
there to help you.
Thanks in advance
1 get shreddedish.
DrX
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Quote from: GDF-8 on October 29, 2014, 06:35:52 PM
Hey mate whats your opinion towards pyramid training.
from your personal experience, pros and cons?
Thanks in advance.
A quick recap for those who do not know what pyramid training is. It is a technique
that utilizes an upward, then downward sequence in weight, reps or sets. One
example of pyramid training called the ascending pyramids you would increase the
weight and decrease the reps for each set.
Bench Press:
Set 1 135lbs: 12-20 reps
Pyramid training will get the job done, but will work even more seamlessly and
efficiently with Piston Style. But what does that matter in the end. My goal is to
keep you in the game by remaining injury free and growing for decades to come.
While everyone around you is blowing out their shoulders, knees, and elbows
training traditional styles, you on the other hand have your ego in check and
remain both injury free but MORE IMPORTANTLY, clear from all PAIN medications
INCLUDING the overused dangerous over the counter NSAIDs (Tylenol, Advil, Motrin
etc....)
So if your goal is to use Pyramid method, all reps are performed as a car piston,
with no pausing at the top or bottom in one smooth motion. Failure occurs on all
sets at your required rep range. Through all the years of training, I would highly
recommended keeping your heaviest set to NO less then 6 to 8 perfect reps. Your
asking for trouble if performed with less then 6 reps. Many of you reading this,
know first hand they have done the most irreversible damage at that low rep range.
Now this leads me into an aspect of training very few if any have discussed. And in
my opinion the single most important element to those perfect reps, the mental
preparation prior to the set. I occasionally see this one character I have
nicknamed Mr Mean-Mug. In all the years he has been at my gym, he has never spoken
to or responds to any sort of greeting or kind gesture. Hat down low, angry look
on the face, will not allow anyone to work in with him even though he takes 3-5
minutes between sets. Somehow he thinks his attitude or approach to training will
generate enough intensity for the physique of his dreams.
On a side note what is Mr Mean-Mug missing out on. Two things come to mind. One,
what HE does between sets has no significant relevance to his physique. It is what
happens during that set that counts. Second, in a social way he is missing out on
developing some great relationships. My wife and I had a combined bachelor,
bachelorette party before we got married. We rented a 67 seater bus and took all
our friends to Vegas for the weekend. Half the bus was filled with amazing friends
I had met solely at the different gyms I go to. That first morning at the pool, you
could see a sheen of cotton seed oil floating on the pool surface from all the tren
and test injected that morning in the hotel rooms. Even last weekend we went to a
Halloween party hosted by a gym member. Sometimes you do need to open yourself to
others who also have the same love and passion as you do.
No mean-mugging in DrX's house...
Now this does lead me into my mental preparation for the gym. It is the only time
of the day, outside of church where I do not carry my cell phone with me. It stays
in the car. That next hour in the gym belongs to me and no other. That flip-pen
phone rings at all hours of the day and has to remain on at night too due to the
business. I do not care what happens in the outside world when I enter the gym. It
is spiritual in a way. But that does mean I can act selfish, and self absorbed
either. The second distraction is the usual banging, talking noises and hideous
music playing in the background as I attempt my sets. My headphones are used for
that purpose to block out distractions. Your music is actually not there for your
to listen to. It is an important noise filter. Never listen to new music you are
not use to, or are not familiar. Your mind WILL float back and forth between your
set and the music which actually is now a distraction.
So this leads up to the single most important aspect of approaching the set. The 3
second rule. As I get into position, first starting with the grip, I will close my
eyes and count down from 3. Once I am at zero the set begins. My goal is to block
out the outside world and bring my mind to a place of clarity. What do I want from
this set is also confirmed in my mind? The fight I had with my wife, the driver who
cut me off on the road, no longer exist. The mind is blank and should remain that
way, only feeling the body in full range of motion and that all important mind
muscle connection during that set.
But there is some extreme importance as to what happens between sets. Once I get my
breath and bearings back is where I actually re-flex that body part just trained. I
will SQUEEZE it as hard as I can. Squeeze it till it hurts. I have a short window
between the next set, but this is the time I am also cordial with my gym family. If
someone needs a spot or during a quick hello I am squeezing that body part. Most
of the time they do not even know if done in stealth mode. This little secret has
helped develop some of the best mind-muscle connections especially for those
stubborn body parts. My goal is to bathe the muscles cells with fresh blood, fluid
and nutrients, which concurrently helps stretch out the fascia and tissues even
further. I do this in-between each and EVERY set.
So you see, it comes down to the small details, ALONG with the training philosophy
that counts. It all adds up over time. Give the 3 second rule a try along with a
GOOD squeeze between sets and get back to me. Sprinkle in SOME INTENSITY, and we
are now cooking...
DrX
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� Reply #705 on: October 29, 2014, 06:35:52 PM �
ReplyQuote
Hey mate whats your opinion towards pyramid training.
from your personal experience, pros and cons?
Thanks in advance.
1 get shreddedish.
DrX
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Quote from: tabez on October 27, 2014, 04:06:31 PM
First off, I would like to thank you DrX for the amazing and incredibly detailed
and informative posts found in this thread. Truly a treasure box of information in
here. I have spent at least five hours reading the entire thread and every single
post in it, wth your response being read sometimes 3+ times. Thanks to ironraider
also for his informative and thought provoking questions and responses in here
also.
After beginning reading this thread last Friday, I have incorporated your piston
style of training into my routine all weekend and the pumps and abuse I put my body
through with this is style is amazing. took a couple sets to put ego aside to keep
that nice rhythm going, similar to the piston, but the return from it is
incredible. jumping further ahead into the thread, your arm workout is insane and
so brutal. I have just recently began dedicating a day to arms and this workout is
incredible. also your 100 rep calf workout, incredible. my calves were on fire
after this, very humbling having to drop the weight so much to achieve the reps.
Your overall perspective on diet, nutrition and putting your physical AND mental
health as priority has drastically changed my perspective also, especially toward
tren. after nearly five continuous months of its use, the mental side effects have
worn me out and my SO. Reading your thoughts on tren and its affect on personal
relationships has put into perspective for me the mental strain my SO has had to
endure by my use of it. thank you for opening my eyes on this. I have taken to
heart your suggestion though you laid out many pages back on trying new vegetables
every time I visit he grocery store. having a culinary background the cooking
aspect is easy, but like many bodybuilders I was so into the routine of only using
a small selection of veggies and not taking the full benefit of variety in my diet,
alongside with fruits also.
keep up the great work, your physique is incredible and I wish you the best with
your recent diagnosis and your endevours of learning to use slin with this. no
questions for now, but I am about to revert back to page one and give this another
read. I am sure I will have some the second time around.
edit: also I forgot to touch on your perspective of correctly growing in the "off
season/bulking" phase and UTILIZING the bloat. I never took into account on a
cellular level of what happens when you try to maintain the "tren" look and growing
lean. after finishing this cut out, I cannot wait now to EMBRACE the bloat and off
season look, and of course learning to use the four horsemen and dbol. oh sweet
dbol, how I will learn to love it.
Tabez, thank you for taking the time to write that out. It means quite a lot. There
are times where u spend a great amount of effort, time, emotion, and sacrifices
(ask my wife) into explaining or conveying detailed information that is hard to
grasp. Sometimes I am up at 4am in the morning to write out something. It is
literally the only time of the day I can get it done. It motivates me in way a
teacher would feel when their students really get or understand something. Your
response validated me today.
The hardest part here at GH15 is one would say 1+1=2, and others 1+1=3. Lets use
your example of tren. A month or so ago a member from my gym who belongs to another
bodybuilding site, showed me a picture on his cell phone of another veteran member
who he eventually thinks he would look like. And he never will to be honest with
his current understanding.
I must give credit, where credit is due. That member had built one of the very best
physiques I have seen on a high tren, low test cycle. How do you argue with the end
result. I am about the end results!!!!!
Once I got his name, and was able to do a few searches it confirmed my suspicions.
He ALSO had built his foundation prior to his current suggestions. Based on older
pictures there were times he was bloated, thick and smooth on heavy amounts of test
and probably deca with some dbol/adrol. He dropped weight over time and hardened
himself. And then began growing back into his heavier weight with GH, low test and
high tren. Meaning he is growing lean the way Kevin Leverone did it. Why, because
as I have said this, he has laid down the cellular foundation with the basics (Four
Horseman) OVER TIME to grow back leaner TO that set weight. My friend from the gym
has not and as such it is a recipe for disappointment. Many of you will eventually
find this out over time, especially those who want to look like a 70's to early
90's bodybuilder not a fitness competitor...
P.S. Do not underestimate the KEY role insulin has to play in the equation when
someone says they are growing lean.
DrX
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First off, I would like to thank you DrX for the amazing and incredibly detailed
and informative posts found in this thread. Truly a treasure box of information in
here. I have spent at least five hours reading the entire thread and every single
post in it, wth your response being read sometimes 3+ times. Thanks to ironraider
also for his informative and thought provoking questions and responses in here
also.
After beginning reading this thread last Friday, I have incorporated your piston
style of training into my routine all weekend and the pumps and abuse I put my body
through with this is style is amazing. took a couple sets to put ego aside to keep
that nice rhythm going, similar to the piston, but the return from it is
incredible. jumping further ahead into the thread, your arm workout is insane and
so brutal. I have just recently began dedicating a day to arms and this workout is
incredible. also your 100 rep calf workout, incredible. my calves were on fire
after this, very humbling having to drop the weight so much to achieve the reps.
Your overall perspective on diet, nutrition and putting your physical AND mental
health as priority has drastically changed my perspective also, especially toward
tren. after nearly five continuous months of its use, the mental side effects have
worn me out and my SO. Reading your thoughts on tren and its affect on personal
relationships has put into perspective for me the mental strain my SO has had to
endure by my use of it. thank you for opening my eyes on this. I have taken to
heart your suggestion though you laid out many pages back on trying new vegetables
every time I visit he grocery store. having a culinary background the cooking
aspect is easy, but like many bodybuilders I was so into the routine of only using
a small selection of veggies and not taking the full benefit of variety in my diet,
alongside with fruits also.
keep up the great work, your physique is incredible and I wish you the best with
your recent diagnosis and your endevours of learning to use slin with this. no
questions for now, but I am about to revert back to page one and give this another
read. I am sure I will have some the second time around.
edit: also I forgot to touch on your perspective of correctly growing in the "off
season/bulking" phase and UTILIZING the bloat. I never took into account on a
cellular level of what happens when you try to maintain the "tren" look and growing
lean. after finishing this cut out, I cannot wait now to EMBRACE the bloat and off
season look, and of course learning to use the four horsemen and dbol. oh sweet
dbol, how I will learn to love it.
currently blasting:
500mg organon sust

750 NPP
The one most important fact to keep in mind is that once you discontinue ANY AAS
whether it be dbol, tren, test, you will revert back to the natural state or mean.
Especially if you are using dbol as a standalone and expect to keep all the mass
once discontinued. Again, this is true with EVERY AAS!!!
It is how you use this important tool and when that counts. Dbol to me is as
important as yeast is to making bread. A DENSE mass of dough via fermentation
causes a well-risen loaf of bread that has volume. Bodybuilders who visually
understand this will use dbol to create volume and size that no other can match. To
say it only creates bloof and water is a huge insult to the bodybuilders of the
70's. They in my opinion looked harder on dbol then some of today's best on tren,
insulin and test. The key back then was the controlled use of carbs. Their pre and
post workout drinks were not pineapple juice or processed carbs, but whole milk and
cream (and not this fat free or 2% we have today). The staple of their diets were
fats and protein.
The other critical physiological factor dbol plays is the regulation of hunger.
Most see this as a negative. This actually is a good thing as it prevents one from
overeating and getting too fat. There are those who feel dbol and other high
aromatizating compounds should not be used by those who put on fat easy. I humbly
disagree as it controls hunger better then any AAS. The body takes in what it
needs. I could only speculate at the mechanism is which dbol lowers hunger. My
guess is its somehow tied into the stomach and the slower release of pre-digested
food (chyme) into the small intestine.
Dbol should be used during growth phases (<7%BF) where you are NOT bouncing back
and forth with calories and compounds. You need consistency!!!!! This is NOT the
AAS for those with a fragile ego, who need to look in the mirror every five minutes
and fret over bloated cheeks.
Say you are on test, eq and dbol for 4 weeks with higher calories, then switch over
to LOW test, tren and mast while dieting and cutting calories, then expect the mass
to retain itself. Dbol needs to be supported by other estrogen based AAS for longer
periods to help "solidify" or volumize the physique. I'll use the bread example
again. For those of you who have baked bread, what happens when your lower oven
temperature to soon during the baking process? The bread deflates because the
gluten structures have not had enough time to harden and create structure.
Once I remove dbol from the equation, I will tend to add in more of the faster
acting versions of test, deca to compensate. It helps me keep and solidify that
mass and continue growing.
DrX
Just amazing I too love dbol it built larry Scott sergio oliva Arnold
What dosage would you use on dbol
and test prop when of dbol what dosage
The answer in terms of Dbol doses that you are looking for is on pg 23 of this
thread.... But to cut to the chase, there is no right dose. It is individually
based on sensitivity, time and muscle maturity.
DrX
Read it all love your posts so informative could. Read you all day truly are
amazing with knowagle
100mg dbol
Keep them coming more about old schools estrogen and doses I like the old school
look
dieting
125mg test E
725mg tren E
700mg tren A
900mg eq
375mg mast E
50mg prov
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Quote from: DrX on October 19, 2014, 10:37:29 PM
Quote from: infobrokerz on October 10, 2014, 02:16:44 PM
Another great thread by DrX... I ignorantly used Dbol as a standalone cycle, for
several years in my early 20s, and made fantastic gains everytime, but would sadly
lose all my gains as soon as i would take 8 weeks off from Dbol .. Everytime on
Dbol, i would gain almost 20lbs of bodyweight , including muscle,fat and water, and
all my lifts would dramatically skyrocket
fats and protein.
gluten have not had enough time to harden and create structure.
DrX
I to have noticed that aromatising compounds even non orals such as test e keep my
appetite at a normal level. What is the reasoning for that? My personal theory is
estrogen! On say 500mg test if I let estrogen creep up a bit (not to the point were
my nips get puffy or I have acne) but just a little it seems like my appetite is
very regulated and normal (around 3k) however if I take an ai or say run lower test
in general then its like 8k cals feels like nothing..
DrX
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Quote from: dazz-G on October 19, 2014, 10:46:49 PM
fats and protein.
DrX
The answer in terms of Dbol doses that you are looking for is on pg 23 of this
thread.... But to cut to the chase, there is no right dose. It is individually
based on sensitivity, time and muscle maturity.
DrX
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Currently using dbol at 45mg and I have to say that it volumises you like no other!
Amazing stuff. Just need to watch out for the nips and all good to go.
Progress Log - http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=31356.0
600mg Test E
1.8g Deca
400mg Tren E
60mg Dbol
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fats and protein.
DrX

dieting
125mg test E
725mg tren E
700mg tren A
900mg eq
375mg mast E
50mg prov
DrX
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fats and protein.
gluten have not had enough time to harden and create structure.
DrX
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A thank you to JourneyToSwoledom for finding this video. Fouad Abiad offseason leg
video is another GREAT example of Piston Style of training. A few key points to
remember:
1) Continuous tension. No pausing at the top. The stroke should be fluid like a car
piston
2) FULL Range of motion!!!!!
3) Intensity!!!
4) Intensity!!!!
5) Intensity!!!!!
DrX
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� Reply #694 on: October 17, 2014, 11:29:40 AM �
ReplyQuote
This is one of the reasons why i dont follow modern bb, looks horried >:(
Some people dont do bacon for religous reasons, I dont do religon for bacon
reasons!!
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^ its becoming a bit of a trend, the guys who blow up really fast and almost
transform themselves overnight (not literally!)
are usually heavily reliant on massive gh + slin from the get go and while
initially looking tight and looking impressive, tend to regress within a few years
as their waists widen, guts protrude and condition worsens.
phil heath, roelly winklaar, ben pakulski etc

phil and roelly have had their worst showings imo this year and phil has noticeably
regressed year by year.
would bet the same happens to big ramy.
guys who have been at it for years, building quality and growing into their best
throughout the years instead of blowing up in next to no time, having a solid
foundation to begin maintain a quality physique and withstand the test of time -
dex, freeman, ronny rockel, wolf etc
abuse of gh + slin is ruining bodybuilding imo
even some of the older fellas like branch and jay later on who didnt want to be
outdone fell into this trap
jay, branch and even victor martinez have shown that once that regression starts,
its usually not possible to bring that quality back again.
likely to do with all that intramuscular and intracellular fat storage.
so id be shocked if we see phil replicate his awesome 2011 showing and if roelly
drastically improves.
No man is my enemy,
No man is my friend,
Every man is my teacher.
Strength
Perseverance
The Process determines the Outcome. Perfect the process to progress.
Rubbish
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The package he presented on last year's Olympia was very good though. Sad to see
the "progress" he made over the past year isn't as pleasing.
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Follow my odyssey of perseverance (blasting for the FIRST time):
Quote from: gh15 on December 24, 2014, 03:35:34 PM
WE USE HORMONES TO BUILD OUR BODY
WE DO NOT USE DRUGS TO DESTROY IT!
gh15 approved
Chin15)
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Fuck that GYNO on roelly
Don't spend much time listening to someone talk about something they've never done.
Moderation is for losers, quitters, and whiners. Extremity is for winners.

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Re: DrX Photos:70-80's Protocol:Updated pictures Pg17

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This is now considered the cream of the crop. A winner of a pro contest. The best
bodybuilding has to offer for the year of 2014?????? REALLY!!!!!
(SIGH)....
DrX
That 50 inch, contest condition, waist... ::)

Join ChestRockwell's mutation!
My job is to provide you with the data, however it is up to you what to do with
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dextrose use to be the go to staple through late 80 into 90's and now people call
it sugar and not a starch. Im curious where the fear mongering or hate came from in
regards to dextrose, is it all this keto talk
Id love to see any info you have on hand with dextrose, its a staple for me.
1 get shreddedish.
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Quote from: DrX on July 01, 2014, 01:56:06 PM
Quote from: Xidon9 on June 22, 2014, 07:46:14 PM
DrX, thank you for a detailed & informative thread.
In light of your upcoming write up on training arms, I was wondering if you can
shed some light on the possible cause of upper forearm atrophy that we see in some
bodybuilders, most famously Jay Cutler.
Going by the picture below, it seems like it is the brachioradialis that is

atrophied, but are there other muscles affected to produce this unnatural look ? Is
the culprit Insulin, HGH, the combination of both, or something else ?
Xidon9, your direct question about forearm atrophy, is related to an aspect of

bodybuilding that I have wanted to touch on for a while. And it simply comes down
to what has modern bodybuilding become?
Let me begin with a statement Dash, my dear friend from the gym said to me one day.
If you remember Dash is a member at my gym who has trained with and trained along
side all the greats in Venice. From Arnold all the way to Haney and Dorian when
they would venture down to LA. It is an honor and a pleasure to have met him!!! I
asked him one day who was the most impressive bodybuilder over the years and the
least impressive. He stated his personal favorite and most awe inspiring personally
was Sergio Oliva. The most unimpressive and most repulsive physique in person went
to Dorian Yates. I asked him why? He said bodybuilding has always been about
symmetry and balance. You tried your absolute best to keep all body-parts in line,
and grow them uniformly. He went on to say Dorian had a wide thick back, great
legs, but a horrific chest, arms and mid section. As he walked past me one day and
turned to the side, I actually saw his gut pass his chest line. He then stated in a
lowered disappointed voice, "if this is bodybuilding for the sake of just size,
then bodybuilding is dead".
Bodybuilding has always been about showcasing MUSCLE TISSUE. In the past structural
muscle has classically been used for the movement of the human body. To push or
move something. You trained and dieted to expose the dancing muscle fibers under
the skin. Really starting with Flex Wheeler and his overuse of SEO, to Jay Cutler,
bodybuilding became a new "sport". It is like drinking caffeine free coffee, eating
sugar free chocolate, or fat free cakes. Can there be such a thing as muscle free
bodybuilder?
I akin today's bodybuilders to Foie gras. What is foie gras? It is the liver of a
duck or goose that has been specially fattened deliberately through force-feeding.
Pipes are manipulated down male ducks? or geese?s throats two or three times daily
and then pumped as much as 4 pounds of grain and fat into the animals? stomachs,
causing their livers to bloat to up to 10 times their normal size. The livers are
then cooked and eaten as an overpriced appetizer.
With the extreme use of insulin to selectively store certain nutrients, along with
GH to effectively block unwanted excessive calories and with the advent of SEO and
other "fillers", muscle tissue for today's generation has changed. We are now
showcasing a "fattened" muscle as STORAGE tissue rather then the classical
STRUCTURAL tissue. Most of the newer generation cant see this. This is especially
true beginning with Cutler, then Heath, and especially the new phenom Ramy.
As to answer your specific question about atrophy is tough mainly because I do

believe it comes down to any or all three issues. Once the discontinuance or the
use of lower amounts of insulin will cause the immediate loss of volume to the
forearms. You can clearly see this on Phil Heath when he bounces back and forth in
weight. Even Flex Wheelers arms now have a disturbingly odd, grotesque distorted
shape to them. This was caused by the excessive fillers and SEO abuse over the
years. HE NEVER BUILT REAL ARMS!!!! The proof was in the pudding as they say when
it comes to Jay. His arms and forearms in my opinion are all in the same league as
flex and Phil. They do have in my opinion a very good protocol, as to hide the
manipulation, as of most people looking truly think they are real....
Remember it was GH15 who initially called out the words BLOOFY, and POOFY to
describe Phil Heath. He took a lot of criticism for stating Phil Heath was nothing
more then a plastic "blow up doll". And rightfully so in my opinion.
I added another picture of Ben Pakulski as an example because he is dieted down,

but yet you cannot see any striated structural tissue. Over time you will be able
to see the change of muscle character from real tissue to what is considered
today's best.
DrX
This is now considered the cream of the crop. A winner of a pro contest. The best
bodybuilding has to offer for the year of 2014?????? REALLY!!!!!
(SIGH)....
DrX
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infobrokerz
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^^Thanks again DrX , for these mind blowing insights
DrX
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Quote from: New user on October 09, 2014, 02:43:39 AM
I believe pineapple is one of the fruits that has less fructose in it,
It also has the enzymes used to help digest protein.
I've been using pineapples for three days, I have fructose malabsorption ,
So far it's not bad, but I need to give some more time.
DrX, what is your take on the "Mental" sides of Tren.
I know you believe to use it in a bulk rather than a dieting phase,
Do you find the caloric surplus in a bulk knocks off all negative mental effects
from Tren if there are any to begin with?
I'm asking because I've never taken it, but Tren being Tren, of course it makes me
want to try at some time or another.
Another thing , I recently read about Nandrolones promoting a positive mood,

Have you experienced this?
Does it make you caulm like some report from EQ or how exactly are the effects?
Thank you
For those who don't know what fructose malabsorbption is, it is a digestive
disorder where the complete absorption of fructose in the small intestine cannot
occur because fructose carriers at the intestinal walls are impaired. The
undigested fructose is then carried to the colon where our normal bacteria continue
to break it down. The bacteria produce gases which cause the intestine to swell.
This causes bloating, cramping, gas and distention. Food tables related to fructose
malabsorbption are where you can get your ratio's of fructose to glucose in foods.
New User's goal is to find foods with ratios at or less then one.
http://www.foodintolerances.org/fructose-food-table.aspx
As far as I am concerned the enzymes in pineapple juice do not really aid in much
digestion as one believes. Raw pineapple, figs, papaya, honeydew melon, ginger, and
kiwi all contain enzymes, known as proteases (protein enzymes). These friuits are
used as cooking enzymatic marinades, which work by breaking down muscle fiber
collagen (connective tissue). The assumption is they will continue to work once
consumed. Enzymes in our bodies tend to work best around 37C. However, enzymes from
fruits, such as papaya or pineapple work best between 50-70C.
Furthermore, digestive enzymes are secreted by various parts of the digestive

system, beginning in the stomach. Each has its own very specific role in the
process of digestion. Here is a summary of the enzymes required for protein
breakdown:
pepsin - secreted by the stomach

trypsin, chymotrypsin, carboxypolypeptidase, proelastase - all pancreatic
enzymes
peptidases, aminopeptidase, dipeptidase - present in the intestinal cells
The placebo that most have not considered when evaluating pineapples role in
digestion is the change in diet when pineapple juice is introduced. Your eating
steak and eggs one day, and then switch to easier digestible foods (rice/fish) with
the juice. Second, and I'll repeat myself, rice or starchy complex carbs are what
replenish glucose stores in muscle not the juices. So my simple advice give the
body what it needs. Dextrose, or glucose powder. This monosaccharide or simple
sugar is not associated with either fructose or lactose. It is very cheap natural,
effective, and easily utilized by the body, furthermore it is well-tolerated by
most individuals especially in your case. Here is the one I use for more my intra
and post workout shake. It should cost about $3-4 for a 2lb bag
http://www.nowfoods.com/Dextrose-2lb.htm
Please re-read my entire thread when it comes to Tren. I have been very VERY clear
about the mental sides, and blood lipid changes that occur with this compound
dieting or bulking. You will have to test each AAS yourself to see which ones
create a sense of "calmness". It is a question no one but you can answer, as AAS
effects are UNIQUE to each and every one of us...
DrX
you."
DrX
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Quote from: fluery on October 04, 2014, 04:43:46 PM
Nice to see a respected voice on the forum making the case that tren isn't the end-
all be-all, despite its undoubted effectiveness. I'm not really a fan personally of
it.
I do think I need to give dbol a second look. Last time I tried I had nipple
issues, but that was likely just potentiating an existing problem which I've since
made a lot of progress on.
Tren most definitely has it's well deserved place in modern bodybuilding. There is
no denying that. The reality is, those who run it with great results have a better
affinity or genetic response to tren in particular. The biggest problem we face,
due to mountains of (mis) information is what is truly accurate. You look at a
physique you admire who happens to be giving you advice on blasting tren, when they
themselves are on significant amounts of test, insulin and the corresponding
amounts of GH to support those amount of test and insulin. But you never considered
to think, what would they look like if they removed the test and slin. And why are
they giving advice to those NOT on any slin and high test stacks.
My goal is to get you to think instead of react....
I'll give you another great example. GH15 has his love for pineapple juice. Why is
he on pineapple juice? Why not grape juice, orange juice, cranberry juice or even
baby food. What does it do for him in-particular. What will it do or not do for you
more importantly.
So you see diets posted from time to time with GH15's favorite carb drink. Their
stack shows no insulin use but the religious use of pineapple juice. The problem is
GH15 uses the pineapple juice as a way to stabilize his blood sugars for his
nervous system because of the HIGH amounts of insulin he uses. The levels of
fructose which are easily digested and absorbed create an easy way for him to
normalize brain and nerve function. He has just perfected how much juice he needs.
Is it any better the apple, grape, or orange juice. NO, actually they have MUCH,
MUCH better nutritional profiles.
Are you on substantial amounts exogenous insulin too? So why are you drinking
pineapple juice. What most are missing is how does he fill up his muscles with
glucose? The starchy rice he ALWAYS mentions is the KEY not the fruit juice. Also,
because of the ratio of fructose to glucose in fruit juices, the fructose is also
shuttled to the liver for additional storage not to his muscles like the glucose
from the starch.
Lesson for the day. Eat your rice!!!
DrX
I'll let GH15 take over and explain in a bit more detail as he did today in the
bodybuilding Nutrition section...
my recommended shake is if you do shakes..is
eggwhite carton the whole damn thing...on increlex and blue top saizen I actualy
drink 80-90 grams of eggwhites...I don't care that in theory only 50 gram wil be
absorbed....on increlex and blue top saizen mix you wont shit it out in any way
shape or form
now if you don't have increlex and you don't go into hypo sensations as much....
due to lack of igf ofcourse like most npc bodybuild and lower level unhooked
profesionals...
thennn! my recommended shake Is
eggwhites about 50 gram + pine apple which will be dependent once again on your
insulin intake and your hypo zone which in advance bodybuuld we live on this hypo
anabolic zone...we NEVER REALLY GO TO HYPO...THE SMART AMONG US JUST GET THE
EFFECTIVNESS OF HYPO ZONE.... but we live on the zone and bring us back with over
carbo ... pineapple...bananas which are a bit longer duration and go well with pine
apple...and carbs in general due to the specific compound we use tht I alredy
mentioned
a typical npc intermediate bodybuild WITH OUT a combo of blue top saizen and
increlex in blood should do something like this
eggwhites + pine apple + bananas
to ones who don't like the tast of liquid eggwhites if there are such
individuals ..shoudnt be but if there are...they should add almond chocolate milk
with the egghites....the almost milk do contain little fat but it is fine I approve
it
all the carbo supplements scam don't do don't listen to this nonsense ..this is why
you look like bunch of fat fucks ..those carbo shit ..and if not fuck fucks then
your skin look like god have mercy
you hve to put your mental brain wash aside....and stop using those junk supplement
...carbos and vitargos lol common now be real with yourself ..we don't touch this
shit ...bodybuild sell it to have money to buy the hormones they need or inreturn
for hormones
your mental needs lol I say mental because it is mental need because you don't make
enough igf in your blood to need specific carbs within a specific window 6 and a
half minutes after training....it can come later an hour even 2 hours after in the
form of WHITEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE RICEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
so to the retards among you I will clarify .....
eggwhites + pine apple + bananas
wait an hour or so little more sometimes depending on wht hormones in your

blood....if on increlex and blue top saizen your body wont be able to wait an hour
and a half ....but majority are not on increelx and blue top saizen so they can
wait 1-2 hours and eat their white rice as the compleeeeex carb which you may say
its not complex...and I will sy in return ..fuck the word complex because brown
rice is the rice we NEVER TOUCH it is disaster for bodybuild to use brown rice
so
eggwhites + pine apples + bananas and enough of all 3
wait 1-2 hours and eat your white rice with preferably raw fish if its sashimi
orrrr if not raw then eat cooked fish preferably tilapia...and if cant stand fish
eat chicken
all of what I wrote bove is a difrect dependent of specific hormones you use and
timing of their usge
don't drink those health hazards and physique diminishing supplement garabage just
because you see it has nice label and you think it can make your hormones be
better...IT CANT...REAL FOOD CAN AND ALWAYS DID
gh15 approved
bible index
DrX
you."
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goku
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maybe because pineapple just tastes good?
we tend over-analyse things as bodybuiders!
DrX is spot on as usual imo. the simplest explanation is often the right one!
No man is my enemy,
Strength
Perseverance
New user
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I believe pineapple is one of the fruits that has less fructose in it,
It also has the enzymes used to help digest protein.
I've been using pineapples for three days, I have fructose malabsorption ,
So far it's not bad, but I need to give some more time.
DrX, what is your take on the "Mental" sides of Tren.

I know you believe to use it in a bulk rather than a dieting phase,
Do you find the caloric surplus in a bulk knocks off all negative mental effects
from Tren if there are any to begin with?
I'm asking because I've never taken it, but Tren being Tren, of course it makes me
want to try at some time or another.
Another thing , I recently read about Nandrolones promoting a positive mood,

Have you experienced this?
Does it make you caulm like some report from EQ or how exactly are the effects?
Thank you

If you have any advice on speeding the healing of A bone fracture, Please PM me,
thanks.
DrX
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Quote from: fluery on October 04, 2014, 04:43:46 PM
it.
Tren most definitely has it's well deserved place in modern bodybuilding. There is
no denying that. The reality is, those who run it with great results have a better
affinity or genetic response to tren in particular. The biggest problem we face,
due to mountains of (mis) information is what is truly accurate. You look at a
physique you admire who happens to be giving you advice on blasting tren, when they
themselves are on significant amounts of test, insulin and the corresponding
amounts of GH to support those amount of test and insulin. But you never considered
to think, what would they look like if they removed the test and slin. And why are
they giving advice to those NOT on any slin and high test stacks.
My goal is to get you to think instead of react....
I'll give you another great example. GH15 has his love for pineapple juice. Why is
he on pineapple juice? Why not grape juice, orange juice, cranberry juice or even
baby food. What does it do for him in-particular. What will it do or not do for you
more importantly.
So you see diets posted from time to time with GH15's favorite carb drink. Their
stack shows no insulin use but the religious use of pineapple juice. The problem is
GH15 uses the pineapple juice as a way to stabilize his blood sugars for his
nervous system because of the HIGH amounts of insulin he uses. The levels of
fructose which are easily digested and absorbed create an easy way for him to
normalize brain and nerve function. He has just perfected how much juice he needs.
Is it any better the apple, grape, or orange juice. NO, actually they have MUCH,
MUCH better nutritional profiles.
Are you on substantial amounts exogenous insulin too? So why are you drinking
pineapple juice. What most are missing is how does he fill up his muscles with
glucose? The starchy rice he ALWAYS mentions is the KEY not the fruit juice. Also,
because of the ratio of fructose to glucose in fruit juices, the fructose is also
shuttled to the liver for additional storage not to his muscles like the glucose
from the starch.
Lesson for the day. Eat your rice!!!
DrX
you."
GDF-8
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always well written reads in here. Can i use yoru cardio write up to give to
clients. haha 3.00 per email sent. :P
i become a new person when i get into daily cardio, but if you stop, at least for
me its hard to get that routine back.
ugh.
Great work and hope your health is staying strong

1 get shreddedish.
molonlabe
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drx, i know you like your deca so what do you use to control prolact, didnt see it
anywhere in the thread.
molonlabe
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drx reaffirms the notion that i have for bbing, 70s-early 90s were better. they
should incorporate a division consisting of this and phase out the modern
generation in the mr.O, tell everybody that is getting into bbing to not use slin
unless you have to if you want to compete in the future, run the it the way they
are currently running it for 10 more years then get rid of it and just have the
classic division.
fluery
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it.
Jc456
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Absolutely LOVE these latest posts Dr. X. Thank you for taking the time to explain
these things.
Powerlifting/Weightlifting Section Moderator.
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Quote from: gmammoth on October 03, 2014, 06:58:12 PM
Another very interesting post Dr X I'll have to give high dbol a try.
Were there no oestrogenic issues from so much of it though?
I hope my message came through loud and clear. There is a direct correlation
between muscle maturity (thickness/mass) and the sides that come from AAS. As you
develop more muscle and more importantly reduce fat levels over time, your response
changes. So yes absolutely give Dbol a try, but start at a reasonable dose. As for
the estrogen based issues, there were minimal and included mild water retention in
the face, and slight gyno.
But again to highlight key points about running and minimizing issues with the Four
Horseman (test/deca/adrol/dbol):
1) Start running them when under 7% BF (5% is even better)

2) Keep the fast foods, and highly salted per-prepared, instant, frozen meals to a
bare minimum. You must have all your meals prepped and freshly made.
3) Cardio...... Did I said Cardio!!!
4) Watch your carb intake to minimize bloat. Substitute in good fats for refined
carbs.
5) Most importantly, listen to your body. When something is not right LOWER the
dose. Find that dose where you feel like superman
6) Take your time. This is a marathon not a sprint....
DrX
I see the correlation I can deal with bloat, gyno is my biggest concern with dbol.
Last time I used 50mg I got sensitive nipples but will have to see this time
around. Maybe build up from a low dose and taper it to get a bearing.
Keeping my carbs lower this time, more protein and fats. Seems to give me more
energy and less subcutaneous water.
600mg Test E
1.8g Deca
400mg Tren E
60mg Dbol
DrX
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Quote from: gmammoth on October 03, 2014, 06:58:12 PM
I hope my message came through loud and clear. There is a direct correlation
between muscle maturity (thickness/mass) and the sides that come from AAS. As you
develop more muscle and more importantly reduce fat levels over time, your response
changes. So yes absolutely give Dbol a try, but start at a reasonable dose. As for
the estrogen based issues, there were minimal and included mild water retention in
the face, and slight gyno.
But again to highlight key points about running and minimizing issues with the Four
Horseman (test/deca/adrol/dbol):
1) Start running them when under 7% BF (5% is even better)

2) Keep the fast foods, and highly salted pre-prepared, instant, frozen meals to a
bare minimum. You must have all your meals prepped and freshly made. I have quite a
high intake of vegetables servings per day (bulking or cutting)
3) Cardio...... Did I said Cardio!!!
4) Watch your carb intake to minimize bloat. Substitute in good fats for refined
carbs.
5) Most importantly, listen to your body. When something is not right LOWER the
dose. Find that dose where you feel like superman
6) Take your time. This is a marathon not a sprint....
DrX
you."
stomp
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Quote from: leanster on August 05, 2014, 12:11:18 AM
DrX great thread first of all. What are your thoughts on winstrol and why it lowers
morning glucose levels? and in general what are your thoughts of winstrol?
I have come to admire winstols hardening properties lately. As you grow and mature
you learn and unlearn past assumptions of certain AAS. You have to be open minded
and be willing to change opinions when your body tells you. There is no set
ideology here. For example, most may not be able to run high test amounts early in
their development and as such hate the response. But as time unfolds and the body
composition changes the response to test becomes different.
man i really like your viewpoint or philosophy of the lifestyle. I checked this
thread a while back but there was a little bit and im not the type that can check
back every day for an update so i lost interest and decided to wait until there was
more content to revisit, then i actually have fun reading through it. test is the
same thing for me. lately ive been using it again. always use it more or less, but
never USE it. my body at this point just reacts better to it. if i could describe
it, things like deca, tren, whatever add weight inside the muscle, whereas test
feels like it adds frame weight. test thickens me, and at points i needed to have a
cut base to thicken. fuck the test only or whatever first cycle shit i read for
years, even got introduced by a buddy with what else, test! but i wish i would
have started with something else. it was not what i needed at that time. it didnt
give me the look i desired so in reality, why the fuck was i even using it ya know?
im using something to give me a desired result and it was not giving me the desired
result but yet i still used it because i thought thats what was used, way back
when.
thewrongadvices
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Wow great post on dbol DrX! I'm enjoying it greatly at just 30mg a day at the
moment. It is a fantastic steroid, I always feel great on it too.
"the scale weigth can go up or do
saved the whole text you wrote,
just letting you know I did and I loved it
especially now that I see the results
Being entirely honest with oneself is a good exercise. -Sigmund Freud
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600mg Test E
1.8g Deca
400mg Tren E
60mg Dbol
stomp
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We will continue with the "beautiful bloat" theme.....
I truly feel sorry for the 'lean face" younger generation who believe tren and mast
are the answers to everything.
And I'll say it again, in my opinion tren in isolation WITHOUT insulin is the MOST
OVERRATED of all the AAS especially when it comes to the development of structural
tissue. It shines like no other when it comes to subcutaneous water manipulation
and nervous system activation. My advice, open your tool box and take another look
at dbol. If you had bad experiences in the past then SIGNIFICANTLY drop down and
ADJUST the dose to where you get NONE. It is just that easy.
I will say this just to drive the message home. The doses you see the bodybuilders
of the past were using were built up OVER time. They NEVER EVER jumped into 200mgs
a day of dbol to expect pure bliss. Doses of Dbol actually started around 30mgs a
day and were built from there. If someone with very little experience started
300mgs of tren ace a day what would you say? It is the same concept with someone
starting at 100mgs plus of dbol a day. Furthermore, Dbol mg to mg is stronger then
adrol and winstrol. So you cannot compare equal doses to sides and results. That is
the reason dbol was manufactured in 5mg strength and adrol in 50mg strength.
Tren did not build the dense competitive physiques of the past, DBOL did..... That
is way it was called the "breakfast of champions".
Embrace this reality and open your eyes!!!!!
DrX
man its not all our fault. we are misinformed. i was chasing the physiques in reps
etc. i knew nothing. buddy said heres testosterone this is what you take, you take
1 shot a week. well i misunderstood i asked him 1 shot before i work out? he said
yes, so i ended up taking a shot every day for 6 days and i call him and say hey
buddy im almost out how is this gonna last me 2 months? he said what the fuck is
wrong with you dude?
so thats 1 idiotic story. i "bulked" and looked like shit. people called me fat.
but i thought you bulk then cut like bodybuilders! i knew nothing of what hormones.
then i go through an oral phase, no connects, not really interested in injects
cause i didnt know how to get em. good look, halodrol etc. then i get some test
again, same thing but this time much better due to training and diet, yet still,
didnt have the look i wanted. gained muscle but no lines. THEN i learn of tren, so
i go about things that way and yes got exactly as you described.
yet someone of my level at the time wanted to be somewhat smart, try things out,
not just get on some crazy stack, so it actually took me 2 years of testing on my
own to realise the importance of a wet compound. i am going to be dilligent on
pairing a wet compound every time i have tren/mast. not test either. test makes me
thicker, but this round i used low dose deca, just 330 mgs with half the tren and
OMG. a worlds difference. i was much tigher and dryer, but the extra fullness and
water all of a sudden more people are saying how fucking ripped i am.
you are 100% spot on in my opinion. going forward i will gain muscle with a little
test, a little mast, and deca with an oral most likely, or try npp. but for shorter
stints of 2 months or so. thats where im at now and honestly im ready to drop some
water.
i do love tren, but i know people show stacks and mention wet compounds, but ive
been on this site and never really saw the message driven home about NEEDING a wet
compound in. sure its mentioned here or there, but how many threads or discussions
do you see where its never mentioned? i was saying well i will try more tren. no.
the answer was to lower the tren and add in a wet compound. competition i would see
myself upping the tren for the last 8 weeks or so. but my view of tren has forever
been changed. when i used tren its going to be about 350mgs, WHEN, and for shorter
stints. going forward i am going to try 2 things, no tren and then a decent amount
for 8 weeks, and then 20-30mg tren and just raising up to 350-400, whenever i want
or need to be more crisp.
im glad that i decided to go the slow approach that youre talking about and build
up, i just wish i knew more about the compounds and how to use them, and im not
talking about ok should take 350mg of tren, im talking about how to use them like
youre describing, much earlier. if i had known that a few years ago i think i would
have gotten to a higher peak than i have, but i dont stay consistent with high
doses, i will drop off for a while and just run a little test or when i want a
little more try a new compound but still low doses.
ChestRockwell
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I am just humbled at 165mg/day of dianabol. Just bowing down to you...my
goodness...
it...
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We will continue with the "beautiful bloat" theme.....
For the past month I have used the old oral 70's protocol of 4 weeks on, followed
by 4 (or more for me) weeks off. This is the very first time in 20 plus years I
have really pushed the dose closer to what was used then. It has taken me many many
years to get there. I decided to use both Anadrol and Dianabol together. A total of
75mgs of adrol and 165mgs of dbol per day. Dbol taken EVERY day including days off.
Those are the days where repair of damaged muscle structure also occur. Dbol in
particular being one of the best for that very special property. Somehow the newer
generation has lumped in dbol and adrol as equals or comparable, when in reality
they could not be further apart in what they do. Yes, they both bring fluid INTO
the cells and super-compensate glycogen retention. But what what most have forgot
is dbols other SUPERIOR anaboilc property. When I refer to anabolic, I mean the
repair and growth of structural muscle tissue. That was what it was designed for.
Anadrol on the other hand, was designed for anemia, and in my opinion is more of a
tool used to load fluid and glucose into the cells when stress is the highest
(dieting). Anadrol also shines when GH is used at the uppermost spectrum of dose
(>6-10iu). It is required at times where gh prevents the muscle cells from soaking
up glucose which floats in the blood stream at higher levels. Along with insulin it
shuttles fluid in like no other. They BOTH have their places as valuable tools in
the shed but dbol besides deca and test built and forged most or all the great
physiques of the past. This is one powerful anabolic compound when used properly.
The main problem I see and the reason for falling out of favor is because dose
needs to be ramped up SLOWLY over time. I see too many running over WELL over 100mg
per day with very little lean tissue to support said dose. The results, extreme
sides that should never happen if DOSE is moderated. Most here with less then 4
years will not need more then 75mgs a day.
So how were the four week results? .......... OUTSTANDING!!
This is on top of high test/deca combination along with some insulin R for my type
2 and GH at 2-4iu per day.
The sides of the orals at that dose have been controlled by two main variables.
One, my carb intake is moderate in comparison to previous growth phases. Two, the
GH I feel also plays a BIG role in how much AAS can be tolerated by the body. The
sides I do have however are very mild. The appetite or hunger controls are muted by
the orals. I do not have that vicious appetite especially at night where I could
eat just about everything. The last meal of the night is a struggle. Unlike tren
where you are hot at night, the orals keep my body in a continuous sweaty and
sticky state.
Mood is great and strength is continually climbing. I am actually very sad to be
coming off the orals this week. The thickness that has occurred, even with a lower
carb intake has been mind blowing. You cannot hide the mass that pushes through
all the clothes, even if you tried. When dressed up and out in the world you get
that famous continues comment, "how much do you bench press" as they try to squeeze
your arms and shoulders that you've unconsciously flexed hard. Men are gravitated
to you because your masculinity appeals to them and they want to be you, but
cannot. That old school muscular thick look is like a lost species that has gone
extinct.
I truly feel sorry for the 'lean face" younger generation who believe tren and mast
are the answers to everything.
And I'll say it again, in my opinion tren in isolation WITHOUT insulin is the MOST
OVERRATED of all the AAS especially when it comes to the development of structural
tissue. It shines like no other when it comes to subcutaneous water manipulation
and nervous system activation. My advice, open your tool box and take another look
at dbol. If you had bad experiences in the past then SIGNIFICANTLY drop down and
ADJUST the dose to where you get NONE. It is just that easy.
I will say this just to drive the message home. The doses you see the bodybuilders
of the past were using were built up OVER time. They NEVER EVER jumped into 200mgs
a day of dbol to expect pure bliss. Doses of Dbol actually started around 30mgs a
day and were built from there. If someone with very little experience started
300mgs of tren ace a day what would you say? It is the same concept with someone
starting at 100mgs plus of dbol a day. Furthermore, Dbol mg to mg is stronger then
adrol and winstrol. So you cannot compare equal doses to sides and results. That is
the reason dbol was manufactured in 5mg strength and adrol in 50mg strength.
Tren did not build the dense competitive physiques of the past, DBOL did..... That
is way it was called the "breakfast of champions".
Embrace this reality and open your eyes!!!!!
DrX
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� Reply #666 on: September 26, 2014, 11:34:37 AM �
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Quote from: Ronz on September 26, 2014, 09:38:12 AM
Great info and insight, DrX....as always lol
x2, what an asset to the community

Scar tissue is stronger than regular tissue.
Realise the strength, and move on.
Henry Rollins
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Quote from: Ronz on September 26, 2014, 09:38:12 AM
This. I always feel I'm repeating myself in a Drx thread.

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Ultimate kitchen knife guide:
Ventrogluteal injection instructions:

http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=28115
Don't feel like going to the gym today? Read this:

http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=35252.msg963393#msg963393
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Amazing material thank you for posting DrX!
My Log:
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� Reply #662 on: September 23, 2014, 02:25:02 PM �
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Excellent advice and insight! Truly appreciate all the knowledge you share.
"Once you know what it is like to be hungry you'll never be full"

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The Beautiful Bloat:
Quote from: Concernedfitizen on September 05, 2014, 07:22:29 AM

Did your arm routine today and it felt awesome! Didn't worry about super heavy
weight, just trying to groove that piston style and get a feel for the technique.
Struggled to feel my triceps working on the one armed cable extension, but I'll
stick with it. Arms were engorged at the end and it only took 35 minutes. Now I'm
dying to know how you train all the muscle groups!
Love your posts. I appreciate how much effort you put into them and your
willingness to share. Can't wait to read more. Looking forward to reading more of
your philosophies and ideas.
Thank you!
Your always welcome!!!
Before I detail how I train all muscle groups, I'll provide a brief update. I as a
bodybuilder and by nature do not like stagnation in life. What is the point of
looking virtually the same year to year. I need to see objective progress in all
aspects of my life.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting
different results. - Albert Einstein
The growth phase is in full swing and am feeling great. Up about 15lbs with little
to no fat gain. Just some good ole-fashion water retention which is crucial for
growth and repair. The newest fad today is to not only grow lean but excessively
dry too. The exact opposite of what muscles cells thrive on for growth and volume.
To put it bluntly the bloat or water retention leverages growth. So lets talk
about the bloat and what it provides. What happens subcutaneously also to some
extent occurs intracellular. By removing the bloat, you are also drying out the
muscle cells too. Cell volume and the pump, while related, are not the same thing.
Cell volume refers to fluid within the muscle cells, while the pump has to do with
fluid in-between muscle cells.
Nutrients that come from the food that I have recommend are high in both sodium and
potassium which are critical for growth. Playing around with these key carriers to
prevent the bloat is a HUGE mistake. Muscle cells require the presence of sodium.
And in my opinion bodybuilders require a bit more then do the average athlete.
Amino acids are transported by sodium-dependent carriers for that anabolic
environment . Amino acids are in other words "sodium-dependent". This means they
actually have to attach to a sodium molecule to enter the muscle cell. Sodium and
potassium perform very similar functions with the major difference being in the
intra and extra-cellular fluid regulation. Sodium has an effect on subcutaneous
(under the skin) fluid retention. Potassium has its effect on fluid inside the
muscle cell. These two critical minerals are constantly striving for equilibrium.
When one gets out of line with the other your system will strive to adjust to the
underlying situation. Sodium, potassium and the balance between the two can have a
prominent impact on muscle size and anabolism (increased cellular fluid inside the
muscle cell promotes an anabolic response in muscle tissue) as well as strength
through increase joint leverage. Also, elevated sodium and potassium levels will
tend to prevent injuries with heavy training. This is ONE of the MAJOR keys to
preventing soft tissue injuries. Take a step back and ask why do power-lifers
compete at certain body fat levels and NOT any lower. And what is that level, well
that depends on the individual, but generally it is between 9-18%, with some
requiring it to be in the 24% plus range. But remember we are bodybuilders not
power-lifters, so keep the BF levels in check (<8-12%).
In other words manipulating or intentionally decreased subcutaneous body water and

intracellular nutrients just for VANITY sakes can lead to cell shrinking, and an
increase in muscle protein breakdown. You need to have a thick skin to be a
bodybuilder. You MUST be able to handle comments when your bloated and comments
when your lean. If you cant get over the notion of always having a lean face, then
bodybuilding will be a continual struggle for you. Most will spin their wheels
until they finally get this concept.
In the IFBB/NPC gossip boarding section I purposely put in a recent training video
in the thread called Tristen Escolastico: Newest Pro.
Why, I was hoping to make a point between what was heard, and what is OBJECTIVELY
seen. The best bodybuilders know and learn their own bodies over TIME. They at some
point have to stop listening to others and make adjustments based on their own
failures and updated goals. In the video you can CLEARLY see he is on copious
amounts of the FOUR HORSEMAN: Test/deca/ADrol/Dbol and a slin/gh combo too. He is
not dry by any means, and is holding a nice layer of body fat to cushion his
growth. Does he love his tren? Maybe so, maybe not. BUT it is CRYSTAL clear that on
THIS growth phase he in NOT on any significant amounts of drying compounds.
I've said this before, and I will say this again, welcome and embrace the bloat
with open arms.... It is your best friend when it comes to developing that old-
school thick, three denominational look.
At this point I am still running high test, deca and NPP, but with dbol and adrol
stacked together in the mix. Masterone is down to a bare minimum of 200-300mgs a
week and have removed ALL anti-estrogens. Am also very lucky enough at this point
to be running 3.5iu of brand name GH. And as I mentioned in a previous answer I
have lowered my insulin doses down from 50iu of R to 18iu of R and 15iu of N at
night mainly because the excessive amounts of slin translated to too many carbs
required. Hypothetical, I feel I could grow at the same rate but with less body fat
accumulation on a more efficient lower dose of R. It is about maximizing training
energy levels for maximum muscle structural damage, not as it is used today as a
loading tool (i.e. foie gras). Orals are HEAVILY utilized when insulin is most
active. Energy levels in the gym are outstanding, sometimes having to hold myself
back from doing more. The diet is still tight at the moment, and in hindsight I may
be hurting myself by keeping it too clean.
Removing carbs from the dieting phase really helped my blood lipid profiles on my
last lab results, so I am trying a different approach this growth season by keeping
carbs to just breakfast, liquid carb mix during training, and some post workout.
The rest of the meals are much higher in good fats with the use of three main oils
used every day (olive, macadamia, avocado) with nuts with every low carb meal. I
make my own home made almond butter that is so delicious, which is now also
included in with my morning oatmeal.
Here is the routine for all the muscle groups for the week. Also remember I am old-
school. I do believe in a bit more volume then today's generation. So take that
into account. ( All sets are to failure and beyond with drop sets sprinkled in too.
Piston style is the core for each rep)
Cardio is STILL performed 6 days a week for 30 mins first thing in the morning on
an empty stomach. To reiterate for four main reasons: 1) To moderate body fats
levels (increase energy expenditure). 2) Help keep the body sensitive to insulin.
3) Maintain good blood pressure reading. 4) Provide better blood lipid profiles
(especially at raising HDL).
Sunday: Quads Total time 50 mins

1) Leg extensions 5 sets
2) Leg press 5 sets
3) Hack squat 4 sets
4) Vertical seated press 3 sets
5) One leg press 2 sets (no rest in-between)
Monday: Hams/Upper back/Calves (light touch up for upper back)

1) Lying leg curls 4 sets
2) Standing one leg curl 4 sets
3) Seated leg curl 3 sets
4) Leg press (feet placed high and on the outside of the plate) 3 sets
1) Reverse grip pulldowns 3 sets

2) Reverse grip pull-ups 2 sets
3) High pulley rows. 2 sets
1) Calf raises on the leg press 4 sets

2) seated calf raises 3 sets
3) Standing calf raises 3 sets
4) donkey calf raises 3 sets
Tuesday: Abs/Chest
1) crunches
2) leg lifts
3) cable crunches
4) roman ab crunches on the decline bench press
1) Dumbbell incline press (15-20% angle) 5 sets

2) Dumbbell incline flys (15-20% angle) 4 sets
3) Flat dumbbell press 3 sets
4) Dips 3 sets
5) cable crossovers 3 sets
6) Incline machine press (one drop set)
Wednesday: Shoulders/traps (some forearm work too)
1) Seated side laterals 4 sets
2) Seated Dumbbell presses 4 sets
3) Seated behind the neck barbell press 3 sets (WARNING be careful on these)
4) Machine front press 3 sets
5) Seated rear delt dumbbell laterals 3 sets
6) Machine rear laterals 3 sets
1) Dumbbell shrugs 4 sets

2) Seated machine shrugs 3 sets
3) Barbell upright rows 2 sets
1) Various wrist curls are performed to keep them full, hard and vascular.
Thursday: Back/calves
1) V bar low cable row 4 sets
2) Straight bar cable pulldowns 4 sets
3) One arm dumbbell rows on the rack. Palms facing thighs (replaces bent over
barbell rows) 3 sets
4) One arm dumbbell row on flat bench 3 sets
5) V-bar pulldowns 3 sets
6) Hammer-strength machine high pulls 3 sets
7) High rope pullovers from the cable machine 3 sets
1) Calf raises on the leg press 4 sets

2) seated calf raises 3 sets
3) Standing calf raises 3 sets
4) donkey calf raises 3 sets
(Note: 100 rep set is done every-other week on the standing calf machine)
Friday: Abs/Arms
1) crunches
2) leg lifts
3) cable crunches
4) roman ab crunches on the decline bench press
(Note: sets, reps, and sequence change every week)
Direct link to the arm workout http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=18393.570
1) Dumbbell curls/Long bar push-downs 3 sets

2) Barbell curl/ Cable one arm pushdowns
3) Dumbell one arm preacher curls/ Behind the back dips on machine
4) Cable low pulley rope hammer curls/close grip barbell bench press.
(Note: The forth exercise is done every-other week)
DrX
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After watching the Olympia this weekend, my hats off to the 212lb class. There was
some suburb conditioning in this field. Especially Eduardo Correa!!! Wow, he was
crisp, hard and detailed....
I wish they would increases the weight class to 225lbs. It would bring in some
needed height, and make this class very marketable due to the fact they can still
come in at that weight EXTREMELY conditioned, V-tapered and hard like in the early
90's.
DrX
you."
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Those curls are amazing dropped the weight and had a better pump.
Team Australia / Metal
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Re: DrX Updated Photos....

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Quote from: DrX on June 22, 2013, 02:44:42 AM
Quote from: draaz on June 22, 2013, 02:09:42 AM
Looking great brother. Is mast the sole reason you are staying so dry? Or do you
incorporate estrogen control, it looks like your have got that aspect of hormone
use down in regards to estro control.
Dryness has a lot to do with body fat to be honest. The negative feedback loop that
fat cells create diminish over time as you become leaner. Hardness and dryness
comes in as body fat drops. Especially when you truly get down to below 6%. Mast
does help tremendously, especially in the growth wet growing phase. I"ll use about
350mg a week of mast prop in this phase. I'll use the same amounts of mast in the
diet phase but with the addition of 10-20mg/day of nolvadex.
The other key is carbs!!! I will slowly remove them over time in the diet phase
for equal amounts of both essential and nonessential fats. I will add a mixture of
monounsaturated fats in the form of olive oil, macadamia oil and the higher level
of polyunsaturated fats from walnut oil. Saturated fats are also added in daily in
the form of certain cheeses and beef. This is critical for me!!! This is why many
of the vets on here can use dbol/test and deca and still come in dry. It really
comes down to diet and body fat.
Quote from: DrX on June 28, 2013, 01:09:52 PM

Thanks Lean!!
The key to this chart is BF. If you are down to 4-5% and are within these numbers
you will have a fantastically thick look. Only at 4-5% BF will you really get to
see how much lean tissue you have developed. Most stop at 7-8% and assume there is
very little difference between the two numbers. You will drop weight as you begin
to get down under 7%. This is where the suffering really happens.
The absolute joy for me is at 165lbs at 5'7" if still have room to grow. I have not
quite pushed the envelope yet, so I do have work to do.
Just want to highlight this epic information for easier find for others.
DrX
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Quote from: DrX on September 07, 2014, 01:55:04 PM
There was an interesting question about blood pressure a few weeks ago. Basically,
did the perceived addition of a supplement caused a drop in blood pressure. My
answer was based on other variables that were not controlled to determine the
correct answer. This was my answer....
Very happy to see you be proactive rather then reactive. But I have a few questions
to help objectify your results. Are you NOW currently dieting, and at the same time
not on tren? Did you lose weight? Did the diet change? Did you add cardio? The
reason I ask is because you have changes major variables to BP readings. In other
words in may not be the tadalafil, but the removal of tren..... See where I am
going with this. In order to really test yourself you MUST keep all variables
constant and add that one unknown to see if that actually changes results..
The reason I bring this up now has to do with carefully controlling the smallest
variables when changes occur. Let me back up and tell you a story. About 2-3 years
ago my wife and I went to Las Vegas for a three day convention. At that moment I
was in the tail end of dieting. In order to try and eat clean during those three
days I brought beef jerky to chew on for the times I could not eat. Never thought
much of it other then the high sodium content. At the same time I had added in Tren
E into the equation 2 weeks earlier. I was my first trial at Tren E in many, many
years. I had heard very negative stories on this version, so my bias was already
built into the equation. We got back on a Friday, and that following Sunday was
quads.
Come Sunday night came the most debilitating knee issues I have ever experienced.
Stabbing, throbbing pain began if I sat down in a chair. Getting up, or knelling
down was torture. I felt like a 120 year old man. And I had deca in the system to
boot too. It just continued to get worse as the week progressed. There were no
changes to my quad day, or no new exercises that were introduced. The only variable
I had was the Tren E. So I stopped that immediately and the pain subsided. And up
until this last week have been very negative about that version.
About three weeks ago my wife brought home beef jerky from Costco. So every morning
after my oatmeal breakfast I would grab a very small piece and eat it in the car on
the way to work. It was the hard kind, so my jaws could only tolerate small pieces.
Again never thinking much about it. Low and behold my debilitating knee issues came
back with a vengeance. I could not understand why!!!
I first thought I somehow got a mixed up bottle of Tren E, because it was the exact
same pain I experienced 2 years ago. And then it hit me, like a frozen fish slapped
across the face. Even with my background I did not put two and two together. I am
highly allergic to all sulfa based drugs and foods. Even foods like the pasteurized
egg white that are so famous here create a massive skin reaction. Beef jerky
contains sulfa based preservatives, one of which was causing the swelling. Once I
stopped the beef jerky, the pain slowly subsided.
Now that I know this, my view on Tren E has to change. I improperly blamed it and
went with the herd mentality for Tren Ace over Tren E. That is how ONE small
variable could change your whole view on another piece of the puzzle. If you want
to test something all variables must be constant including the very smallest of
details....
DrX
I need to expand on the importance of controlling variables in testing important

hypothesis such as life altering effects of high blood pressure on your future
bodybuilding health. Especially if that critical variable is testing a supplement.
Your results, flawed or not could have life altering implications. Most of you know
how I personally feel about supplements. The extremely poorly done test that
validate supplement studies which unfortunately most ignore on here are troublesome
to me. How they are tested and by whom leaves a lot to accuracy and truth.
Lets move on, and say for example you did keep all your variables in check and all
you added to the equation was the said supplement to see the effects on BP. But on
your retest a different cuff and nurse were used. The importance of that small
difference in how and who measured can also skew results.
Now to the meat a potatoes of this write-up, and this is critical to know, how to
get an accurate blood pressure reading. The silent killer, blood pressure and the
ability to measure this accurately can mean the difference between life and death
for many. Imagine being told your blood pressure has risen dangerously high and now
your doctor wants you on prescribed blood-pressure reducing medicines, which have
all sorts of side-effects, when you don't even have high blood pressure. Because we
have larger then average muscular arms the size of your blood pressure cuff is of
critical importance in getting proper reading. If you have your BP taken with the
incorrect cuff, the result will be inaccurate and you may get inappropriate
treatment. Please remember the automatic BP machines you find in Wal-Mart and
other places are highly inaccurate and useless for us. Always trust an experienced
nurse over a machine!!! But even then, you may have to intervene if the nurse is
inexperienced. As a matter of fact on my last visit, I did have a young
inexperienced nurse who I purposely let take my BP with the smaller cuff. The
readings were atrocious. I actually had to explain to her a larger cuff would be
required and had her retake the reading with the correct cuff size. Sure enough the
readings were just fine.
If you use a cuff that is too small, the resulting blood pressure reading will
be too high.
If you use a cuff that is too large, the resulting blood pressure reading will
be too low.
Being off in either direction can have significant implications!!!! So this is what
you NEED to know. BP cuffs typically come in three sizes:
1) Adult
2) Adult large
3) Thigh cuffs
The adult size is meant for an average-sized adult. The large cuff is meant for
people with larger-sized arms (muscular arms, or "overweight" and "obese" people).
The so-called "thigh" cuff is an even larger cuff which is used for super-sized
people or people who carry a lot of extra weight in their arms. But there is one
more problem, BP cuff sizes are not standardized in the industry. So it is possible
to go to one office and need a large cuff, yet need a thigh cuff with the same arm
size at another office.
I'll say it again, "health" does NOT come in a supplement bottle. You will have to
sit down and a be honest with yourself in regards to both diet, CARDIO and those
key compounds that create additional stress your system (I.E. tren/eq on BP). If
you want to play, you will have to work at it and make those true sacrifices needed
to keep you in the game...
DrX
you."
Concernedfitizen
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ReplyQuote
Anytime I get complacent with my diet and eat stuff I know is garbage, I start to
experience pain in my joints. Thanks Dr X
infobrokerz
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Thanks DrX , great information as always brother.
DrX
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ReplyQuote
There was an interesting question about blood pressure a few weeks ago. Basically,
did the perceived addition of a supplement caused a drop in blood pressure. My
answer was based on other variables that were not controlled to determine the
correct answer. This was my answer....
Very happy to see you be proactive rather then reactive. But I have a few questions
to help objectify your results. Are you NOW currently dieting, and at the same time
not on tren? Did you lose weight? Did the diet change? Did you add cardio? The
reason I ask is because you have changes major variables to BP readings. In other
words in may not be the tadalafil, but the removal of tren..... See where I am
going with this. In order to really test yourself you MUST keep all variables
constant and add that one unknown to see if that actually changes results..
The reason I bring this up now has to do with carefully controlling the smallest
variables when changes occur. Let me back up and tell you a story. About 2-3 years
ago my wife and I went to Las Vegas for a three day convention. At that moment I
was in the tail end of dieting. In order to try and eat clean during those three
days I brought beef jerky to chew on for the times I could not eat. Never thought
much of it other then the high sodium content. At the same time I had added in Tren
E into the equation 2 weeks earlier. I was my first trial at Tren E in many, many
years. I had heard very negative stories on this version, so my bias was already
built into the equation. We got back on a Friday, and that following Sunday was
quads.
Sunday night came the most debilitating knee issues I have ever experienced.
Stabbing, throbbing pain began if I sat down in a chair. Getting up, or knelling
down was torture. I felt like a 120 year old man. And I had deca in the system to
boot too. It just continued to get worse as the week progressed. There were no
changes to my quad day, or no new exercises that were introduced. The only variable
I had was the Tren E. So I stopped that immediately and the pain subsided. And up
until this last week have been very negative about that version.
About three weeks ago my wife brought home beef jerky from Costco. So every morning
after my oatmeal breakfast I would grab a very small piece and eat it in the car on
the way to work. It was the hard kind, so my jaws could only tolerate small pieces.
Again never thinking much about it. Low and behold my debilitating knee issues came
back with a vengeance. I could not understand why!!!
I first thought I somehow got a mixed up bottle of Tren E, because it was the exact
same pain I experienced 2 years ago. And then it hit me, like a frozen fish slapped
across the face. Even with my background I did not put two and two together. I am
highly allergic to all sulfa based drugs and foods. Even foods like the pasteurized
egg white that are so famous here create a massive skin reaction. Beef jerky
contains sulfa based preservatives, one of which was causing the swelling. Once I
stopped the beef jerky, the pain slowly subsided.
Now that I know this, my view on Tren E has to change. I improperly blamed it and
went with the herd mentality for Tren Ace over Tren E. That is how ONE small
variable could change your whole view on another piece of the puzzle. If you want
to test something all variables must be constant including the very smallest of
details....
DrX
you."
DrX
WIZARD
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Posts: 735
5'7"

ReplyQuote
Quote from: infobrokerz on August 25, 2014, 03:18:03 PM
Im a bit baffled as to when i drop carbs down to 100-125 for several days, my
morning fasted blood glucose levels are higher than when im eating 200-300 carbs
daily...The rest of the day and evening glucose levels remain about the same, but
my awakening levels are at 105-110mgs/dl vs my usual 80s-90smgs/dl. Then after a
couple of days of increasing my carbs to at least 200grams, my awakening glucose
drops back to the lower readings.. Could it be that by dropping my carbs , more fat
is being used to supply the energy/fuel requirements of the muscles , thus
decreasing my sensitivity to insulin? . Only my awakening blood glucose get
elevated, not any other times during the day and evenings . Thanks, DrX
Infobrokerz, eating a low carb intake can induces insulin resistance. This is a
normal physiological response to carbohydrate restriction. Carbohydrate restriction
drops insulin levels. Low insulin levels activate hormone sensitive lipase. Fatty
tissue breaks down and releases non esterified fatty acids. These are mostly taken
up by muscle cells as fuel and automatically induce insulin resistance in those
muscles.
Resistance means it will take more insulin, naturally produced by your pancreas or
from an injection, to move the glucose FROM the blood stream into the cells. Free
fatty acids may also have a direct role in reducing the amount of insulin secreted
by the beta cells in the pancreas. How this mechanism works is still being
generally studied and is unknown.
If you're following a low-carb diet, fasting blood sugars in the 90s and even low
100s may not be a problem, provided your A1c and post-meal blood sugars are within
the normal range.
Marker Normal Pre-diabetes

Diabetes
Fasting blood glucose (mg/dL) <99 100-125
>126
OGGT / post-meal (mg/dL after 2 hours) <140 140-199 >200
Hemoglobin A1c (%) <6 6-6.4
>6.4
We should also take a step back and look at this from an evolutionary perspective.
Our ancestors had no refrigerators, grocery stores, restaurants or easy modes of
transport to acquire food. Food was not readily available or easy to come by as it
is today. Furthermore, there were no watches, schedules or tight structure and
routines we have in the modern world. This means it's likely our ancestors went 12-
16 hours between meals on a regular basis, and perhaps had full days when they ate
lightly or didn't eat at all.
Since you not diabetic you don't have to worry about the somogyi effect, or the
dawn phenomenon either. The dawn phenomenon refers to an increase of blood glucose
that occurs at the end of the night or early morning in patients with both type 1
and type 2 diabetes. However, this does not occur in individuals without diabetes,
because endogenously produced insulin prevents the rise.
Because you are dropping carbs, your body will naturally give a shot of cortisol in
the morning, as you wake up. It does not know your have a refrigerator full of
food. Cortisol increases gluconeogenesis (the process by which our liver creates
glucose), so that we can maintain normal blood sugar when we're not eating. This
wired mechanism is built into our survival DNA codes. Remember our ancestors did
not have access to food. It had to be hunted and gathered FIRST THING IN THE
MORNING. The bodies in a mode to get out in a physically demanding process to store
food for future survival. First, it seems unlikely that we'd evolve this metabolic
pattern if we usually had access to food right after waking up.
Most importantly, morning cortisol explains why we're not hungry immediately upon
waking: not only are we already burning our own fat for energy, our liver has
already gone to work making glucose for us! The glucose is there specifically for
the nervous tissues that plays the all important role in hunting and acquiring
food.
DrX
you."
Concernedfitizen
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ReplyQuote
Did your arm routine today and it felt awesome! Didn't worry about super heavy
weight, just trying to groove that piston style and get a feel for the technique.
Struggled to feel my triceps working on the one armed cable extension, but I'll
stick with it. Arms were engorged at the end and it only took 35 minutes. Now I'm
dying to know how you train all the muscle groups!
Love your posts. I appreciate how much effort you put into them and your
willingness to share. Can't wait to read more. Looking forward to reading more of
your philosophies and ideas.
Thank you!
vincenzo
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Quote from: Lebaneselion on August 26, 2014, 08:00:53 AM
Arm workout is going great 4th time yesterday, arms are continually getting sore
the next day.. weird because i always done these exersices before the same way just
havent supersettrd in years but def feeling good
i know what you mean.. im so used to training biceps first then triceps, or vice
versa, as in one muscle group before moving on to the next. This workout really
shocked my arms. Good stuff!
DrX
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Quote from: DrX on August 30, 2014, 12:56:52 AM
I hope this does not get taken down. Watch it while you can...
It is the full 54 minutes of the 1982 Mr Olympia contest, in all it's glory...
Winner was Chris Dickerson at 190lbs. His age? 43 years young. Total price money
for the entire show was $50,000
To put things into perspective, the first competitor called out was Mohamed
Makkawy. He also realistically weighed between 165-175lbs the day of the
competition.
Quality>Quantity!!!!
DrX
Let's fast-forward exactly 10 years. And I think we are just at that pinnacle or
peak of quality and quantity. Suburb conditioning on these fellas...
Mr 1992 Mr Olympia. Kevin was my favorite that year.....
DrX
P.S. Am working on a abbreviated chest write-up that will be out very shortly....
Let's continue with the evolution and fast-forward another 10 years to the 2002 Mr
Olympia.
This is where the use of pump and pose products (SEO) became very evident, and the
guts or midsections began to protrude out. Some noticeable standouts was Kevin
again, and Gunter Schlierkamp, who I thought stole the show. He looked ABSOLUTELY
amazing that day!!!
DrX
you."
DrX
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� Reply #649 on: August 30, 2014, 12:56:52 AM �
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competition.
DrX
Let's fast-forward exactly 10 years. And I think we are just at that pinnacle or
peak of quality and quantity. Suburb conditioning on these fellas...
Mr 1992 Mr Olympia. Kevin was my favorite that year.....
DrX
P.S. Am working on a abbreviated chest write-up that will be out very shortly....
you."
thewrongadvices
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� Reply #648 on: August 29, 2014, 05:30:12 PM �
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Nice vid fella! Thanks for posting.
"the scale weigth can go up or down ...WE BODYBUILD DONT GO BY WEIGHT ON SCALE...we
go by LEAN MUSCLE !" GH15
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competition.
DrX
you."
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I'll try out the arm routine X.
Will report back in 4 weeks.
Keep in mind I haven't done an arm workout in months and maybe do a few curls here
and there but I'll do before and afters.
My arms are genetically okay and will grow fast if I work hard.
Please do a back workout routine

My back semi terrible and with joeys advice my last workout for back was amazing
and I'd like for you to do a similar routine in your eyes to really get someone
who's lacking mind muscle connection in the back.
WHAT THE FUCK IS DIET?
Lebaneselion
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Arm workout is going great 4th time yesterday, arms are continually getting sore
the next day.. weird because i always done these exersices before the same way just
havent supersettrd in years but def feeling good
infobrokerz
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Im a bit baffled as to when i drop carbs down to 100-125 for several days, my
morning fasted blood glucose levels are higher than when im eating 200-300 carbs
daily...The rest of the day and evening glucose levels remain about the same, but
my awakening levels are at 105-110mgs/dl vs my usual 80s-90smgs/dl. Then after a
couple of days of increasing my carbs to at least 200grams, my awakening glucose
drops back to the lower readings.. Could it be that by dropping my carbs , more fat
is being used to supply the energy/fuel requirements of the muscles , thus
decreasing my sensitivity to insulin? . Only my awakening blood glucose get
elevated, not any other times during the day and evenings . Thanks, DrX
DrX
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What winstrol brings to the table for me personally, was the absolute hardening
effect tren does, but without the physiological side effects. The later being the
most CRITICAL aspect of winny. The mind and emotional response to life on winstol
is pleasing, neutral and calm. The direct opposite to tren!!!! It does however have
the same blood lipid altering sides tren does, so it too for my age must be used as
a short term tool. Your HDL will drop and the LDL will go up on winstrol. Strength
levels even on a low calorie intake was very noticeable. Your response to winny,
may also have much to do with what your concurrently running it with. I ran it with
high amounts of deca, test and masterone. If I ran it with just low or no amounts
of deca and test, the ability to train hard and heavy may be diminished.
On a side note, one interesting side effect to always develop on winstrol is

severely itchy and patchy skin. I would wake up in the middle of the night with
certain body parts on fire. If I scratched the area, it would develop dark bruised
patches. It can become very uncomfortable at times.... Skin creams do not work.
I've tried them all... It instantaneously always disappears when winny is
discontinued and clears the system.
I will double check dates, but I do believe the pictures on page 18, I was on high
test cyp, deca, primo E, mast E and oral winny.
As for the morning values it was just a drop of 10 mg/dl in the morning. I could
not hypothesis why. I am normally in the 100-110 range, but with winny it was 85-
90mg/dl upon waking
Here is more about winstrol I wrote in a previous answer.....
DrX
Updated with additional information....
DrX
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Arm workout has been giving painful pumps as intended. I found the tip that helped
the most was not letting my bicep relax during dumbell curls and forcing them to
stay supinated at the bottom of the movement for an extra stretch.
Also for tricep extensions where you pull the cable down holding the plastic ball
at the end. I've been setting the cable to the lowest setting, and sort of bending
over and doing a tricep kick-back with my tricep parallel to the ground the entire
time. Makes me work my rear delt to keep my arm help up parallel like that and the
upper part of the tricep, kinda like it's being workeD FOR BOTH DIRECTIONS
Before I add any more training advise, how has the arm routine been working.
Feedback gentleman (and ladies). For some you you, it will be weeks 3-4. As such,
you are now at a stage where motions feels natural and unforced.
Anyone try the 100 reps calf exercise I outlined in a earlier thread too?
DrX
* calf-116.jpg (34.22 kB, 640x480 - viewed 660 times.)
* calf2.jpg (60.75 kB, 416x576 - viewed 644 times.)

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DrX
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What winstrol brings to the table for me personally, was the absolute hardening
effect tren does, but without the physiological side effects. The later being the
most CRITICAL aspect of winny. The mind and emotional response to life on winstol
is pleasing, neutral and calm. The direct opposite to tren!!!! It does however have
the same blood lipid altering sides tren does, so it too for my age must be used as
a short term tool. Your HDL will drop and the LDL will go up on winstrol. Strength
levels even on a low calorie intake was very noticeable. Your response to winny,
may also have much to do with what your concurrently running it with. I ran it with
high amounts of deca, test and masterone. If I ran it with just low or no amounts
of deca and test, the ability to train hard and heavy may be diminished.
On a side note, one interesting side effect to always develop on winstrol is

severely itchy and patchy skin. I would wake up in the middle of the night with
certain body parts on fire. If I scratched the area, it would develop dark bruised
patches. It can become very uncomfortable at times.... Skin creams do not work.
I've tried them all... It instantaneously always disappears when winny is
discontinued and clears the system.
I will double check dates, but I do believe the pictures on page 18, I was on high
test cyp, deca, primo E, mast E and oral winny.
As for the morning values it was just a drop of 10 mg/dl in the morning. I could
not hypothesis why. I am normally in the 100-110 range, but with winny it was 85-
90mg/dl upon waking
Here is more about winstrol I wrote in a previous answer.....
DrX
you."
infobrokerz
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Out with the old , in with the new...Looking forward to reading about your results
with the addition of Primo
DrX
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with.
basic training
times changed...
gh15 approved
gh15 approved
DrX
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infobrokerz
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dazz-G
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beat the goal you set out to achieve


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drx what an awesome thread read it all so much great information it's worth lots
of reads over wow.
great shot of arnold side chest got one of myself but bloofy as hell
Got to bring mine up
* image.jpg (69.72 kB, 300x812 - viewed 738 times.)

dieting
125mg test E
725mg tren E
700mg tren A
900mg eq
375mg mast E
50mg prov
DrX
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Net gain this past tumultuous year has been around 12lbs. Its been a week and I am
actually holding weight and condition. Have not had any refill meals yet. Dropped
cardio down from an hour to half an hr and went straight back into my normal
training schedule with no days off. I also added back in an additional 250Kcal of
carbs and insulin R back into my intra-training protocol, but this time at much,
much lower doses from the past. During the dieting phase I only took enough insulin
to cover my diabetic carb bolus needs. Which were with my morning breakfast and
post workout meal. Cardio was ALWAYS on an empty stomach, but during the weight
secession it was half a scoop of whey isolate (Isopure) in water.
Cutting diet was as followed:

Cardio: Empty stomach (Meal one is one hour post cardio).
Meal 1) 1/2cup oat meal, 1/2 scoop chocolate whey isolate, 1 whole egg. (5iu of R
30 mins prior to meal)
Meal 2) 2 baked chicken breast, salad, 1tablespoon olive oil, 1/2 cup vegs,
sprinkle of feta, goat cheese and bacon bits for flavor.
Meal 3) 2 baked chicken breast, salad, 1tablespoon macadamia or avocado oil, 1/2
cup vegs, hand full of mixed nuts, sprinkle of feta and goat, cheese.
Meal 4) 1/2 scoop whey isolate in water while training (Wait one hour post training
to eat meal 5)
Meal 5) Very lean ground beef, Salad, 1 cup vegs, 1 med/small baked potato. (6iu of
R taken 30 mins prior to meal)
Meal number 5 is at 6:30. Go to bed hungry.
I am at a juxtaposition, in a number of ways. First to the shagrin of my angry and

frustrated Medical Doctor I have not had my annual lab work done. There was no
point during the dieting phase to objectively see any value to the lab results. My
blood sugars would be fine, it was the ins and outs of winny, and tren for short
periods that would have destroyed my lipids adding additionally concern for my doc
for no reason. And I am not willing to explain that to him. So at this point I'm
waiting a few days for some clearance time to get my blood work done and then start
the next phase.
My protocol for the last two weeks were as followed.
1) Deca, test cyp base was cut 2 weeks out. Nolvadex was bumped up to 30mg a day.
Aromasin was introduced at 25mg a day.
2) Primo E, Mast E, Test PProp was the new short term base. I reintroduced winstrol
orals and tren ace back for a short time at 100mg a day of each.
3) HGH was cut one week out
4) Three days out I cut the metformin.
5) Cut water Friday afternoon.
6) Sat pictures. Started gently loading carbs and fats in the morning starting at
5am and added in more as the day progressed. (4-5iu of R was needed for each load
(I required 3 meals and took a total of 10iu of R). Did not want to spill over.
Took pictures at 1pm.
One little trick I'll share was the use of preparation H which was liberally rubbed
on night before pictures. Yes the same Perperation H, used for hemorrhoids. It has
a fantastic skin tightening effect if under 6% especially on the abs and serratus.
Again, I stayed completly clear any thermogenic aids or T3. It would just add to
the complications. My goal was to come in thick, full and hard. I am not interested
in the frail, thin, stringy depleted look. Why bring this up? Well there seems to
be a resurgence of interest in these compounds. That brings me to an interesting
quote from GH15 himself, which mirrors my personal assessment of T3 in regards to
this powerful metabolic hormone. Notice I said metabolic not anabolic.
if you are on t3....you better be on lots of hormones...this is my recomendation to

you ...take it or leave it
it flaten like no other thing...not only that but with some fella it go direct to
muscle same ratio as fat...it does .. i dont know why but those fellas need to be
on LOTS OF HORMONES...i would put anadrol in ...and insulina in ...and few other
serious hormones in including higher testosterona
you are weaker on t3...you add ephedrine to it and you are REALLY fuckin um flat
lol and just lose the look so call...
there is a way to fight it...the way is ...NOT TO TAKE IT ...but then again it
depends what you are on ...if you are on 10 iu genotropin a day with trenbolona and
masterona you are already a fat burning machine and most likley walk around 6% or
close to it...you probably hold water mistaken it for fat...or holding some moosh
from the gh mistaken it for fat...this is when t3 use really! fuck you up
t 3 is for fellas WHO EATTTTTTTTTTTT ...who really eat and on mega dose hormones
t3 is not needed if youre playing with hormones
id take superdrol with t3...id also put in insulina and gh ...and take heavier dose
of testosterona with 1 gram eq and then ! i would take t 3 with it and add
ephedrine....but id monitor the t3 and ephedrine to the t ...id follow up on it day
by day ....and i will always make sure to eat alot!
t3 is number 1 fuck me in the ass please hormone ...t3 followed closely by not a
hormone but diuretic...
t3
diuretic
the 2 things that can make you look HORRID IN MATTER OF HOURS AND DAYS
gh15 approved
and DrX approved too....

you."
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My man,
you opitimise the classic look. You should be very proud.

Vitek92
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Your arm and leg vascularity/dryness are amazing. Great inspiration!
infobrokerz
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Thanks for all the detailed posts in this log DrX , as this demonstrates how one
has to adapt to any changes that the body goes through
Diluted56
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Simply amazing DrX!
That dryness, separation and fullness with those classic lines... its simply
walking art
Big ups for what you had to go through but you certainly have something to be more
than proud of
Thank you for sharing and keeping this log active, its a gem of bodybuilding
My Log:
DrX
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DrX:70-80's Protocol:2014PhotosUpdatedPg21
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Well after a year of relearning the body due to Type2 diabetes and all the drastic
changes that occurred, it was time to celebrate life with some updated photos.
Please keep in mind the photos were taken in an artsy fashion for memories sake
rather then showcasing true bodybuilding poses. I did want to showcase my back,
because in my opinion it is my best body part. I will in time update my protocol
of how I adjusted AAS, GH, insulin, diet in the last 2 weeks prior to the photos.
DrX
* gh152014ax.jpg (147.31 kB, 640x963 - viewed 369 times.)
* gh152014bx.jpg (50.54 kB, 640x853 - viewed 356 times.)
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Vitek92
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Excited to see the pictures!
Congrats on finishing the dieting phase and hope you're enjoying some good
offseason meal now.
infobrokerz
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Great details of your well calculated protocols DrX
DrX
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I am officially done with my dieting phase!!!! Peaked yesterday for photos that I
will share in time. This last week was interesting to say the least. The Type2 kept
a film of water due to the metformin and exogenous insulin that had to be worked
out of the subcutaneous tissue. So there were many new variables that had to be
considered this time around. When to pull the metformin without raising blood
sugars? How to deplete and carb up as a type2 without spilling over? In time I will
get this nailed down....
I'll just let the pictures do the talking...
DrX
you."
vincenzo
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did the drx arm routine today... epic!! my arms are blown
thanks mate, love the advice

thewrongadvices
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Quote from: thewrongadvices on July 27, 2014, 04:45:17 AM
Quote from: goku on July 26, 2014, 06:29:27 PM
also, for people who are worried about water with the bread and butter combo of
test and deca,
something ive done and am currently doing with good success is combining deca and
eq to form a base
and using high doses of dbol for test replacement/aromatization (as DrX said, this
is important for growing!).
what are your views on replacing test with dbol mate, i dont know the reasons
behind it but i get much less water when using dbol instead of test (even with
similar overall doses) + deca
I'd love to hear an answer on this. I'm trying to plan my next blast which will be
based around a good dose of nandrolone. Now the thing I am really struggling with
is what to do with testosterone. There are a lot of great posts around lately on
the value of test at a good dose and also the great postings from Dr.x on its
importance. But my experience so far is that dbol is like a better version of test
for my body. Less water but at least as good gains. Can't decide if I should drop
test and run a ton of dbol, or include test but at what dose..... 400, 800?
thewrongadvices, this is really an difficult question to answer based on many

unknowns about you. As I have said before your response to test will be determined
by many factors. In the beginning I was also unable to use much test. There were
just too many sides. Acne being my biggest issue. But as time progressed, the
leaner and more muscular I became the greater the response there was to higher
test. The other main variables you have to consider: 1) Is masterone used? 2) Is
hgh used? 3) Is body fat levels under 12%? Those 3 variables will also determine
how much Test you can ultimately and efficiently use over time.
This is one of the most important things I will say!!!!! Do not fight what your
body is not ready for. If high test doses DO not agree at this point, LOWER it....
If deca and dbol, give greater results with lean tissue gains without the risks and
sides high test comes with, then leverage that. This is what separates great
bodybuilders from the rest. Listen to YOUR body as to which compounds are right at
this time and point. Do not chase the latest fade. The ability to relationally look
at which AAS brings on poor reward vs risks that compound sides for little gain is
the key to your future.
DrX
Thank you DrX for that interesting answer which gives me much food for thought.
I've gone upto 600 test before with higher nandrolone and it wasn't a disaster but
I used no estro control other than a little mast, and I was much higher bf than I
am now so I was big but bloofy. Starting my next growth phase I will be 7% and plan
on using just a sprinkling of aromasin here and there to keep estro in order, I'm
thinking of giving test a go at 800mg/week, plus nadrolone also at 800/week. HGH
will not be used, masteron maybe used as I've used it before with decent results.
Dbol/adrol used on top. I don't mind accepting some water, I know this will be
growth phase and I want to build serious mass.
vincenzo
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Just crawled back home after legs day.. Had a look at the arms routine, &
literally wanted to race back into the gym lol
definitely trying it soon!

kng
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Hello Dr,
Any chance you could describe your back day? It's my worst workout day as I am
unable to get the contraction right. I feel my back working only on deadlift, c?ble
row, and Pullups. Pulldown and dumbell two are a nightmare to me, as the only thing
I manage with them is hurting my shoulder or elbow.
Thanks to Blast, Knip, and all the others.
DrX
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Quote from: thewrongadvices on July 27, 2014, 04:45:17 AM
test and deca,
eq to form a base
thewrongadvices, this is really an difficult question to answer based on many

unknowns about you. As I have said before your response to test will be determined
by many factors. In the beginning I was also unable to use much test. There were
just too many sides. Acne being my biggest issue. But as time progressed, the
leaner and more muscular I became the greater the response there was to higher
test. The other main variables you have to consider: 1) Is masterone used? 2) Is
hgh used? 3) Is body fat levels under 12%? Those 3 variables will also determine
how much Test you can ultimately and efficiently use over time.
This is one of the most important things I will say!!!!! Do not fight what your
body is not ready for. If high test doses DO not agree at this point, LOWER it....
If deca and dbol, give greater results with lean tissue gains without the risks and
sides high test comes with, then leverage that. This is what separates great
bodybuilders from the rest. Listen to YOUR body as to which compounds are right at
this time and point. Do not chase the latest fade. The ability to relationally look
at which AAS brings on poor reward vs risks that compound sides for little gain is
the key to your future.
DrX
you."
thewrongadvices
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DrX, when you run dbol or anadrol orals during a growth phase, do you run them for
many months on end like its suggested the 70's guys did?
Boarding
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Quote from: Diluted56 on August 04, 2014, 08:50:02 AM
My arms were killed even the next day, very localized DOMSI used much less weight
to get the right feel and contraction
I loved the wide grip thumbs over press down it absolutely crunched my triceps!
Keeping the palms facing forward throughout the biceps movements was a challenge, I
definitely see the weakness and want to make it stronger. I believe even for
posture it will take away the gorilla-look of pronated arms when relaxed, biceps
will definitely fill out more doing this arm workout.
Thanks Dr!
Followed this routine to the T on Tuesday...extremely painless but the pumps were
well worth it.
While resting my arm on my car window yesterday I could feel the individual tricep
muscles screaming out in agony, I loved all the little tweaks that made it so
effective. Definitely keeping this one for a while.
Henry Rollins
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I did the arm workout with my buddy who I've taken under my wing in the ways of aas
this summer. He was so pumped that his arms could barely move. When taking off his
tank at the end of the workout he ripped it a little lol.
One of my favorite threads. I've been doing piston style reps for a month or two
now since finding this golden thread. Still trying to find out how to build my
chest but it's making VERY slow progress. I hope you can make a detailed chest
guide soon.
Thanks for all your work on this thread. It's appreciated so much and you truly are
an asset to gh15. Cheers!
Living the good life; fighting the good fight.
Lebaneselion
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I will try this arm workout today man nice detailed explanation. I always knew
training is the most important factor as u have said
infobrokerz
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Another amazing thread......Kudos DrX
DrX
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test and deca,
eq to form a base
Guku is in my opinion one of the pillars of this community. His information has
been, and will always be top notch. Listen to him too!!
It is funny you mention Dbol and a replacement for test. As I have said size comes
with the abuse of one or the other. I recently ran an interesting trial run on two
very close friends. The reason for this experiment was two fold. Is the dbol today
as good if not better then the past? Would the physiques today on Dbol ONLY look
any different from when I first started. I still feel the starting or introduction
"cycles" today are far to complicated and are yet producing inferior results. Keep
in mind we are talking from a BODYBUILDING perspective look, not fitness!!!
Both friends have never used before. One is a transplant from New York who moved
here to LA 4 years ago to grow his training business. When he arrived he did not
even train like a bodybuilder but was more into the circuit style which he
performed with his clients. He became my training partner for half a year while my
wife was pregnant and I taught him everything I knew. His diet was also very well
developed and structured so that was covered. When he approached me for his first
cycle, I suggested one item DBOL. Yes that is it. I wanted to see if, optimal
training and diet, with just Dbol would give him substantial lean tissue growth
with no complications. Similar to what I had seen in the past. The dose 50mg's a
day split through the day for 5 weeks. End result, I was blown away. I wish I could
take before and after pictures and show them here, but unfortunately his tattoos
are dead give-a ways.
My second friend is no where as genetically gifted as the trainer, but has been
lifting consistently for over 8 years. His natural status has had him looking
virtually the same for over 6 years now. Even though over time he has become
stronger, trains harder, eats well, his genetic base was optimized long time ago.
He too started on 50mg's a day. What surprised me, was how fast the thickness and
volume development had occurred. After 8 years of lifting natural he started to
look like a bodybuilder with-in ONLY 5 weeks. His traps, back and arms looked great
in a T-shirt.
Remember DrX's said the number one side effect of using AAS is you become liar. He
did get hit by AAS's biggest side effect and was not use to coworkers and family
inquiring about the sudden gain of muscle.
... It is non of their business!!!
Personally I love Dbol. On my next growth phase I have already planned on really
pushing the envelope with this oral. Test will still be high though along with
deca. I hope to start on this within the next few weeks. I am on my last week or so
of dieting and have achieved my best look to date. The diabetes has added some real
curve balls to this dieting phase too. But I am figuring out each set back as they
come and am trying to make calculated adjustments as needed....
Drying out fully with Type2 really adds to the complication!!!
DrX
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Quote from: rukongai on August 03, 2014, 04:06:03 PM
ive been reading this thread very carefully since 2 days and have included some
good tips in my routine. went down on all of the weights in order to do a good
piston style on all of them, and focus more on mind muscle connection. i also like
little details on grips and positining?
i did the arms workout yesterday and it was extremely hard, i could barely finish
it and felt really out of breath i had to take a break when i was done. i really
love it
That is what I want to hear. You have been told bodybuilding is all drugs. In my
world it is simply not. Those of you who really nail down the specifics for EACH
body-part will over time develop a better physique period. What would benefit a
bodybuilder to use site injections and other seo before they even know how to
naturally stretch the arms during a basic workout?
Couple of other pointers about details on grips. Why the ball over any other
attachment for tris? The ball on triceps push-downs will allow the wrist to remain
in a neutral fluid position which in turn generates a better load placed on the
triceps under contraction.
If you are out of breath, slow it down. The rest periods do not have to be so
tight.
I will in time add a few more advanced stretch techniques I use in-between sets
that add to the elongation of the fasia. But at this point I need you to focus on
the basics..
DrX
you."
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My arms were killed even the next day, very localized DOMS
I used much less weight to get the right feel and contraction
I loved the wide grip thumbs over press down it absolutely crunched my triceps!
Keeping the palms facing forward throughout the biceps movements was a challenge, I
definitely see the weakness and want to make it stronger. I believe even for
posture it will take away the gorilla-look of pronated arms when relaxed, biceps
will definitely fill out more doing this arm workout.
Thanks Dr!
My Log:
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ReplyQuote
Quote from: Dr Zeus on August 02, 2014, 10:13:25 PM
That arm workout was beyond brutal. Felt like my arms were about to POP! By far
best arm pump i have ever had. Could not even take my hat off.
I am happy to see the application of the arm routine has worked out well. I can say
this, with time and as your nervous tissues adjusts it will only get better. But
lets summarize a few key points I always want your keep in check:
1) On standing curls did you grip the dumbbell hard before the sets began. Were you
always able to keep the hanging arm not in motion continually facing f
orward?
2) Did you use the long bar with thumbs OVER on triceps push-downs?
3) Was the head up and shoulders back on standing barbell curls. Did you rest at
the bottom during the set (a big no no no).
4) Did you remember to bring a small towel for the ball on triceps one arm push-
downs?
5) On seated incline one arm dumbbell curls, did you keep you head back on the pad
looking up?
I would like to hear from more you you.... What did you learn? What adjustments
made the biggest difference for you? Chime in, you will help others with your
experiences too..
DrX
I wrote down notes to read pre workout, i learned that i need alot more weight than
i thought to reach failure on 12 reps for tricep pushdown, the stretch was really
painful on incline dumbbell curl palms facing out, head was on the bench but i did
real slow contractions and negatives, very good arm workout, i will keep this all
the way through my cut, and for some time on my bulk to see how much they grow in a
caloric surplus! =D
ive been reading this thread very carefully since 2 days and have included some
good tips in my routine. went down on all of the weights in order to do a good
piston style on all of them, and focus more on mind muscle connection. i also like
little details on grips and positining?
i did the arms workout yesterday and it was extremely hard, i could barely finish
it and felt really out of breath i had to take a break when i was done. i really
love it
infobrokerz
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Im still sore after 2 days, from DrX arms protocols workout ..Thanks DrX!!
Dr Zeus
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ReplyQuote
always able to keep the hanging arm not in motion continually facing forward?
Yes and yes. Did take some getting used to keeping the hanging arm facing forward
but I got it pretty quickly. I did not even go above 30lb dumbbells on this
exercises and it was very very difficult.
I did. Really felt a tight deep contraction on these. Again left ego at home. and
got 12 solid reps to failure.
Check
downs?
Check
looking up?
This was the most difficult one for me and not because it was at the end and I was
fatigued and pumped to the max. But because I have never left my head back. Doing
that makes this exercise so much harder. 30lbs and squeeze at the top. My god.
PAIN. I think I had the bench a little too far back as I felt like I was almost
laying flat. Will try it one notch up next time.
experiences too..
DrX
Overall great workout. The contractions were DEEEEEEP with the tricep exercises,
unlike anything I have felt. Especially when using the towel and cable ball. I
could feel a part of the muscle being worked that had not been isolated before.
As for biceps what can I say. It is non stop pumping blood into the muscle. Very
painful but that is the best pain IMO. A deep bicep pump that is not given enough
time to subside. It just keeps intensifying throughout the workout. I do think I
need to go slightly heavier on a couple tricep exercises as I would get to 12 reps
and be able to get to 15 not quite to failure. I wanted to train lighter to find
that point though, especially the first workout. Now I can adjust and make it even
more excruciating.
Thanks again and I am excited to see what this does for me over the next few
months..

DrX
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ReplyQuote
always able to keep the hanging arm not in motion continually facing forward?
downs?
looking up?
experiences too..
DrX
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you."
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ReplyQuote

letsbereal
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ReplyQuote
Quote from: Rubbish on August 01, 2014, 05:48:32 AM
Quote from: letsbereal on July 31, 2014, 08:40:27 PM
Very nice of you to share your knowledge here, me and im sure everybody here
appreciates information like this.
Will incorporate the arm exercises Saturdays, on my arm day. One question, im not
from Global so i dont understand what piston motion means? Could you explain this?
Thank!
DrX explained it in this very thread. Please be so polite to actually read the
thread before posting questions that have already been answered. The Doc even
mentioned this matter a couple of posts above...
You could even try the search bar in the top right of the screen to search through
this thread to find what you are looking for.
I would strongly advise to READ this ENTIRE thread though. It holds allot of
valuable information you would otherwise be missing out on.

Hi humabuga, I just wanted to reinforce a very important aspect of these top pupil
threads we are blessed to have. They take a tremendous amount of time to maintain
and keep up with. Let alone answering all the questions AND PM'S too.
So I will say a word on behalf of all the "Top Pupils". We hope BEFORE you post a
question, you have AT THE VERY LEAST respected us enough to have gone through the
ENTIRE thread first. And not just once. Read it twice!!!! Your second round will
catch all the specific details that were missed on the first go around...
Most of what you are looking for is actually here with the exception of doses. I
keep them out on purpose. For example, am I a grow lean advocator? What about doses
and diet ? If you have read the thread and need clarification, please ask. That is
what we are here for...
DrX
Just read through the whole thread, very tired eyes right now, but it was worth it,
I cant remember the last time i was this excited for arm day! Refeed tomorrow,
three meals before arms BOOM! =D
MMT
Junior
*
Posts: 86

ReplyQuote
Arm Day!!!
Lets talk about arms, outside of back, it is my favorite body-part to train. Over
the years with as many training partners as I have had the one thing they have ALL
remained loyal to is the approach to arm training that I will share with you today.
Why, it has brought on the best results for just about everyone who has tried this
style. This I promise, will make a difference in size and thickness if followed
correctly. But this style is not easy to master and is very painful. It is all
about technique not WEIGHT. So put down the synthol bottles, site injection tools,
and the cattle prods. You will not longer need them. Just a good ole fashion arm
ass whopping is in store for you today.....
I have experimented with just about very combination and training style over the
years and the one true constant that has brought about the best results for arms is
both super-setting biceps and triceps WITH the all important Piston style of
stroke. This works extremely well for two reasons. 1) Helps isolate the blood
volume in one given area. This will allow for a deeper full stretch and concise
mind to muscle connection. 2) This will in turn also place a very specific and
precises load on the target muscle. Think of it like dummy bombs vs smart bombs.
Dropping dummy bombs is a very inefficient method, as their explosiveness is spread
over a wide area, where as a smart bomb which is smaller and lighter will strike a
specific target with ALL the forces focused on a specific spot for the most damage
(no collateral damage).
So lets begin....
The first two exercises to be performed are standing dumbbell curls super-setted
with standing straight LONG bar triceps cable push-downs. But before we begin,
technique must be addressed. How to actually curl the dumbbells. This is where one
of the MAJOR changes will occur in your understanding of biceps. I DO NOT want
under any circumstances the dumbbells to supinate. This is the key, that goes
against everything you have seen or have learned. I want the stress and loads to be
constant. Supination causes the dissipation of that said load up the arms allowing
you to move more weight (dumb bomb). What you will do is this. Stand in front of a
mirror and first grip both your dumbbells HARD and let them hang or float at the
OUTSIDE of your hips. I do not want them to relax or sit on your hips. The palms of
your wrists ALWAYS facing the mirror and the inside of the dumbbells not touching
your body. YOU DO NOT GET TO ROTATE your palms and relax them by facing your thighs
ever. So begin the curl one dumbbell at a time while the other is facing STRAIGHT
forward. Do not let it turn in. Lower the arm all the ways down with palms
continuing on a horizontal path to the floor. Once floating and facing forward then
begin curling the second arm to a top point you can squeeze the muscle. The other
arm remember is facing forward. So there is a constant static force on the arm that
is not being curled. Our goal is 12 perfects reps....Practice the movement in front
of the mirror first with no dumbbells to get a feel for the new stroke. Once ready
you do not stop and rest and any point. You go to complete failure. What you will
notice is the immediate load placed on the hanging arm. Even though it may be
resting as your curling the other arm it is actually in contraction. This increases
time under tension exponentially...
As you curl the dumbbells up, in order to ensure the front delts aren?t taking
over, keep your chest and head high, and this time contrary to other advise on this
exercise I will allow the elbows to travel forward just a bit as your contract the
bicep. The emphasis on the biceps will be even greater.
Now rest for 5 seconds or so and move straight to triceps push-downs. I would
prefer you to use the long straight bar that is utilized for back pull downs for
this one, not the short straight one. Now where and how to grip the bar. Use a
thumbs OVER grip and the distance is where when you can contract the triceps
muscle, with your thumbs barely touch the outside of your thighs at the bottom. So
I want you standing closer to the apparatus. Strokes are constant piston like all
the way up and down to a brief contraction. No partial ego based reps in this
house. Again 12 perfects reps performed to FAILURE!!!!. Give yourself 5 to 10
seconds and then back to standing dumbbell curls.
To summarize the first two, alternate both with minimal rest 3 sets each to
failure. You will at this point understand what pain is. And we have not even
began!!!
On to the next exercise. This time you will super-set standing straight barbell
curls with one arm cable push downs. If you are having issues with your wrists and
elbows, you may use the french bar curl instead of the straight bar. I am not going
into detail with the straight bar curls, but keep it light enough where there is NO
body English, or momentum based reps. Chest and head remains up and squeeze the
biceps at the top. Again piston style with no stopping at any point during the set
especially at the bottom. So pick a weight light enough to get 12 perfect straight
reps.
Now to a very interesting version of the one arm cable push-down. The reason for
this in particular is the DEEP contraction it gives if done correctly and since it
is one arm at a time, it will allow you to work on the imbalances. On all cable
pushdowns their will be a rubber ball right above the attachment clip. That is what
you want. Take a small towel and place it over the ball for increased surface hand
area. The small towel is critical. The increased surface area will recruit more of
the nervous system for a deeper contraction. Grip the towel OVER the ball and
squeeze it tight. Then begin the set of push downs, one arm at a time. No need for
any attachment just that rubber ball over the clips. Stand slightly to the side of
the cable and move the arms down to your hips in a straight line and to the outside
of your hips again. But this time at the bottom contraction your knuckles will be
facing the floor. Then switch arms. You will notice the imbalances and control
issues with one dominant arm over the other. I could not find any picture on the
net to help me with this movement. So I will use the pictures below just so that
you can see the black rubber ball right above the attachment clip. A member at my
gym was kind enough to let me take me take a quick picture to demonstration the
towel and arm positioning.
Again 3 sets to failure, minimal rest......back and forth. Now the pump is mind
blowing. You can't even take the head phones off your noggin to wipe your face....
(evil laugh again)
The third set of sequence exercises is one arm dumbbell curl on the preacher bench,
super-setted with your choice of any triceps exercise you like. Again on this arm
movement, keep the wrist PERFECTLY flat and or horizontal to the floor. All the way
down and up, no stopping or pausing. 12 reps to failure for each arm. Then off to
your own personal favorite triceps exercise. Just make sure its done clean and in
Piston style. 3 sets to failure back and forth...
Finally the last sequence. We are now in the stretch positions. And ohhhhhh this
will hurt. By this point your arms are completely saturated with blood and fluid.
The perfect opportunity to really physically stretch the biceps the old fashion
way. You will need an incline barbell bench for this. The angle on these benches
are ideal. Back to alternate dumbbell curls but done on the seated incline barbell
bench. The key is your head positioning. I will need your head to ALWAYS lay
against the padding with the arms hanging straight down. Reminder, the head never
comes off the pads. Palms facing forward just like in the first exercise, never and
I mean NEVER turn your writs in to relax the arm, the resting arm still always
faces forward. But this time your will notice extreme stretching forces that occurs
up the biceps. Yes it is painful. Get use to it..... you can do both arms together,
but I prefer you to do one at a time just like the standing version.
Follow this up with standing over the head triceps extensions. Any variation is
possible. Seated with one dumbbell, standing or even on an incline bench. Make sure
the elbows are up and you get that deep stretch when it comes down behind the head.
Couple of end notes for arms if they are your priority. Finding that ideal weight
for each exercise will take a couple of weeks. Lower the weights you normally are
accustomed for those 12 clean reps to failure. Because arms are involved in just
about every upper-body exercise to one degree or another take the following day
off. Train both back and chest the days PRIOR to arms. Keep arms to their own day.
DrX
Thanks for everything written here, specially the quoted training. Dude i got a
pump just by reading this lolol
Awesome thread DrX.
Dont lose focus. Keep your mind and body strong, always!
~Drei
Diluted56
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ReplyQuote
Quote from: letsbereal on August 01, 2014, 08:37:27 AM
Did the arm workout today, holy pump!!
Have changed my armday routine every week, im going to stay with this for a long
time starting tomorrow, adding in winstrol tomorrow, to my test tren mast, also
have a refeed tomorrow with almost 600 carbs, will be fun!!
Arms will be sludge no doubt!

My Log:
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ReplyQuote
Have changed my armday routine every week, im going to stay with this for a long
time starting tomorrow, adding in winstrol tomorrow, to my test tren mast, also
have a refeed tomorrow with almost 600 carbs, will be fun!!
Diluted56
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My Log:
Rubbish
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Quote from: letsbereal on July 31, 2014, 08:40:27 PM
Thank!
DrX explained it in this very thread. Please be so polite to actually read the
thread before posting questions that have already been answered. The Doc even
mentioned this matter a couple of posts above...
You could even try the search bar in the top right of the screen to search through
this thread to find what you are looking for.
I would strongly advise to READ this ENTIRE thread though. It holds allot of
valuable information you would otherwise be missing out on.

DrX
gh15 approved
Concernedfitizen
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� Reply #599 on: July 31, 2014, 09:30:36 PM �
ReplyQuote
Thanks DrX. I will try your arm routine on Saturday. Can we expect to read more on
your training style and philosophy in the future?
letsbereal
Junior
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Posts: 174

� Reply #598 on: July 31, 2014, 08:40:27 PM �
ReplyQuote
Thank!
botchla
Emperor
*****
Posts: 1082
parrin'
� Reply #597 on: July 31, 2014, 06:23:11 PM �
ReplyQuote
Godamn DrX, just blasted your arm workout, was done in less than 30mins and my arms
are super pumped! Feels like the veins are gonna pop out! Will take a bit of
getting used too not rotating my hands when curling but feelsgoodman :)
kng
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Posts: 1617

� Reply #596 on: July 31, 2014, 01:48:38 PM �
ReplyQuote
Oh yeah, never planned to master it.
This is what I like about this sport, you come in, you get ass kicked, you learn,
you improve.
A lifelong experience ;)
Thanks again DrX.
Do you have any stretch to recommend? I badly need to stretch the ankles.
DrX
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� Reply #595 on: July 31, 2014, 01:11:13 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: kng on July 31, 2014, 11:57:14 AM
Tried your protocol for arms.
The biceps are easy to target, can squeeze the shit out of it. Hard to do, but
achievable.
The triceps.. Not as succesful, can't squeeze it properly after the first few sets,
the biceps make it impossible for me to get the proper ROM on the triceps
exercise...
Oh well, you fail you learn, thanks for the lesson Dr, gonna improve and I'll have
some questions for sure :)
On average learning a new technique takes AT LEAST ONE MONTH or more for the
nervous system to develop the right motions. Do NOT plan on mastering this right
away.... It will come in steps. Remember, three important aspects to focus on, the
squeeze as you said, the stretch and the all important pump (fluid accumulation).
ROM will be hampered by the pump. This is what causes growth. Keep pushing for that
FULL ROM to be deeper and deeper on every new secession. ALWAYS in Piston style....
DrX
you."
kng
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� Reply #594 on: July 31, 2014, 11:57:14 AM �
ReplyQuote
Tried your protocol for arms.
The biceps are easy to target, can squeeze the shit out of it. Hard to do, but
achievable.
The triceps.. Not as succesful, can't squeeze it properly after the first few sets,
the biceps make it impossible for me to get the proper ROM on the triceps
exercise...
Oh well, you fail you learn, thanks for the lesson Dr, gonna improve and I'll have
some questions for sure :)
Scania
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� Reply #593 on: July 31, 2014, 01:08:38 AM �
ReplyQuote
Hitting my bi's tomorrow thank you good doctor :D
reasons!!
DrX
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� Reply #592 on: July 30, 2014, 09:59:38 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: humabuga on July 26, 2014, 09:49:27 PM
Hi drx, you posted in my 'bulk on tren yes/no' thread I am all the more convinced
now to bulk on wet compounds instead of just tren/test etc
I just wanted to ask a few questions if that's ok
-what are you running atm and exact dosages

-how often do you increase the dosages, I know as gains stall but usually how often
is that and how much do you increase the dosage
-i see a lot of posts my about not 'force feeding' and only eating when you feel
hungry however how are you meant to grow if you don't overeat? surely you need a
surplus of cals to grow? or is it letting the hormones do the work and eating in
moderation/not too much as hormones do the nutrient partitioning etc
- how many cals are you on per day when bulking and looking to grow?
carbs/fats/protein daily intakes too please
- how many cals/carbs/fats/protein should one be consuming on a daily basis when
bulking on 500mg test 600mg deca (stats 5,10-,511, just under 200lbs, 10-12% bf
DrX
you."
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� Reply #591 on: July 30, 2014, 02:13:44 PM �
ReplyQuote
Finally! Been waiting on this one doc! Will be my new arm day every Saturday :)
will report back..

Diluted56
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� Reply #590 on: July 30, 2014, 01:56:31 PM �
ReplyQuote
Thank you!! ;D :D
... its beautiful :'(

My Log:
DrX
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� Reply #589 on: July 30, 2014, 01:35:59 PM �
ReplyQuote
Arm Day!!!
Lets talk about arms, outside of back, it is my favorite body-part to train. Over
the years with as many training partners as I have had the one thing they have ALL
remained loyal to is the approach to arm training that I will share with you today.
Why, it has brought on the best results for just about everyone who has tried this
style. This I promise, it will make a difference in size and thickness if followed
correctly. But this style is not easy to master and is very painful. It is all
about technique not WEIGHT. So put down the synthol bottles, site injection tools,
and the cattle prods. You will not longer need them. Just a good ole fashion arm
ass whopping is in store for you today.....
I have experimented with just about very combination and training style over the
years and the one true constant that has brought about the best results for arms is
both super-setting biceps and triceps WITH the all important Piston style of
stroke. This works extremely well for two reasons. 1) Helps isolate the blood
volume in one given area. This will allow for a deeper full stretch and concise
mind to muscle connection. 2) This will in turn also place a very specific and
precises load on the target muscle. Think of it like dummy bombs vs smart bombs.
Dropping dummy bombs is a very inefficient method, as their explosiveness is spread
over a wide area, where as a smart bomb which is smaller and lighter will strike a
specific target with ALL the forces focused on a specific spot for the most damage
(no collateral damage).
So lets begin....
The first two exercises to be performed are standing dumbbell curls super-setted
with standing straight LONG bar triceps cable push-downs. But before we begin,
technique must be addressed. How to actually curl the dumbbells. This is where one
of the MAJOR changes will occur in your understanding of biceps. I DO NOT want
under any circumstances the dumbbells to supinate. This is the key, that goes
against everything you have seen or have learned. I want the stress and loads to be
constant. Supination causes the dissipation of that said load up the arms allowing
you to move more weight (dumb bomb). What you will do is this. Stand in front of a
mirror and first grip both your dumbbells HARD and let them hang or float at the
OUTSIDE of your hips. I do not want them to relax or sit on your hips. The palms of
your wrists ALWAYS facing the mirror and the inside of the dumbbells not touching
your body. YOU DO NOT GET TO ROTATE your palms and relax them by facing your thighs
ever. So begin the curl one dumbbell at a time while the other is facing STRAIGHT
forward. Do not let it turn in. Lower the arm all the ways down with palms
continuing on a horizontal path to the floor. Once floating and facing forward then
begin curling the second arm to a top point you can squeeze the muscle. The other
arm remember is facing forward. So there is a constant static force on the arm that
is not being curled. Our goal is 12 perfects reps....Practice the movement in front
of the mirror first with no dumbbells to get a feel for the new stroke. Once ready
you do not stop and rest and any point. You go to complete failure. What you will
notice is the immediate load placed on the hanging arm. Even though it may be
resting as your curling the other arm it is actually in contraction. This increases
time under tension exponentially...
As you curl the dumbbells up, in order to ensure the front delts aren?t taking
over, keep your chest and head high, and this time contrary to other advise on this
exercise I will allow the elbows to travel forward just a bit as your contract the
bicep. The emphasis on the biceps will be even greater.
Now rest for 5 seconds or so and move straight to triceps push-downs. I would
prefer you to use the long straight bar that is utilized for back pull downs for
this one, not the short straight one. Now where and how to grip the bar. Use a
thumbs OVER grip and the distance is where when you can contract the triceps
muscle, with your thumbs barely touch the outside of your thighs at the bottom. So
I want you standing closer to the apparatus. Strokes are constant piston like all
the way up and down to a brief contraction. No partial ego based reps in this
house. Again 12 perfects reps performed to FAILURE!!!!. Give yourself 5 to 10
seconds and then back to standing dumbbell curls.
To summarize the first two, alternate both with minimal rest 3 sets each to
failure. You will at this point understand what pain is. And we have not even
began!!!
On to the next exercise. This time you will super-set standing straight barbell
curls with one arm cable push downs. If you are having issues with your wrists and
elbows, you may use the french bar curl instead of the straight bar. I am not going
into detail with the straight bar curls, but keep it light enough where there is NO
body English, or momentum based reps. Chest and head remains up and squeeze the
biceps at the top. Again piston style with no stopping at any point during the set
especially at the bottom. So pick a weight light enough to get 12 perfect straight
reps.
Now to a very interesting version of the one arm cable push-down. The reason for
this in particular is the DEEP contraction it gives if done correctly and since it
is one arm at a time, it will allow you to work on the imbalances. On all cable
pushdowns their will be a rubber ball right above the attachment clip. That is what
you want. Take a small towel and place it over the ball for increased surface hand
area. The small towel is critical. The increased surface area will recruit more of
the nervous system for a deeper contraction. Grip the towel OVER the ball and
squeeze it tight. Then begin the set of push downs, one arm at a time. No need for
any attachment just that rubber ball over the clips. Stand slightly to the side of
the cable and move the arms down to your hips in a straight line and to the outside
of your hips again. But this time at the bottom contraction your knuckles will be
facing the floor. Then switch arms. You will notice the imbalances and control
issues with one dominant arm over the other. I could not find any picture on the
net to help me with this movement. So I will use the pictures below just so that
you can see the black rubber ball right above the attachment clip. A member at my
gym was kind enough to let me take me take a quick picture to demonstration the
towel and arm positioning.
Again 3 sets to failure, minimal rest......back and forth. Now the pump is mind
blowing. You can't even take the head phones off your noggin to wipe your face....
(evil laugh again)
The third set of sequence exercises is one arm dumbbell curl on the preacher bench,
super-setted with your choice of any triceps exercise you like. Again on this arm
movement, keep the wrist PERFECTLY flat and or horizontal to the floor. All the way
down and up, no stopping or pausing. 12 reps to failure for each arm. Then off to
your own personal favorite triceps exercise. Just make sure its done clean and in
Piston style. 3 sets to failure back and forth...
Finally the last sequence. We are now in the stretch positions. And ohhhhhh this
will hurt. By this point your arms are completely saturated with blood and fluid.
The perfect opportunity to really physically stretch the biceps the old fashion
way. You will need an incline barbell bench for this. The angle on these benches
are ideal. Back to alternate dumbbell curls but done on the seated incline barbell
bench. The key is your head positioning. I will need your head to ALWAYS lay
against the padding with the arms hanging straight down. Reminder, the head never
comes off the pads. Palms facing forward just like in the first exercise, never and
I mean NEVER turn your writs in to relax the arm, the resting arm still always
faces forward. But this time your will notice extreme stretching forces that occurs
up the biceps. Yes it is painful. Get use to it..... you can do both arms together,
but I prefer you to do one at a time just like the standing version.
Follow this up with standing over the head triceps extensions. Any variation is
possible. Seated with one dumbbell, standing or even on an incline bench. Make sure
the elbows are up and you get that deep stretch when it comes down behind the head.
Couple of end notes for arms if they are your priority. Finding that ideal weight
for each exercise will take a couple of weeks. Lower the weights you normally are
accustomed for those 12 clean reps to failure. Because arms are involved in just
about every upper-body exercise to one degree or another take the following day
off. Train both back and chest the days PRIOR to arms. Keep arms to their own day.
DrX
* TricepsBallGh15.jpg (123.62 kB, 800x1067 - viewed 680 times.)
* ballGh15.jpg (119.83 kB, 800x1067 - viewed 680 times.)

you."
DrX
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� Reply #588 on: July 29, 2014, 09:45:27 PM �
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Quote from: trenmafia on July 25, 2014, 04:59:55 AM
As far as the ice soda,i've seen first hand Franciss Benfato drinking coke during
his training..
Did you say soda.....
My mom always said sharing is caring!!

DrX
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� Reply #587 on: July 28, 2014, 03:17:39 PM �
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^ we shouldn't get it twisted though Gatts, tren really is in a league of its
own...but when used for the right purposes and in the right environment!
nothing will achieve that freakish look quite like tren, its high androgenic
properties and water manipulation are unique imo. it really can help sculpt a well
built physique like no other.
and it can also really aid in growing too, tren + an aromatizing compound go very
well together, but with this i feel tren should be kept moderate as all we are
really looking for in this case is its prevention of protein degradation. couple
that with test/dbol and their increase of protein synthesis then its a really good
match.
plus anecdotal evidence in cattle has shown that when tren is mixed with estradiol
weight gain is amplified more than with either alone.
i just feel people rush to using tren too quickly and use too much of it which imo
defies its purpose:
- when trying to grow too much tren will leave test redundant as tren has a much
stronger binding affinity to the AR. this is counter productive imo as test is the
better tissue builder due to its AR and non AR mediated effects (increases protein
synthesis while tren decreases it, we want test to be the bread and tren to be the
butter, test to do the majority of the work but tren to amplify it)
in this case test is being wasted if too much tren is used, likely to be displaced
and lot of redundant test will just be converted to estrogen.
- and when trying recomp, many users simply dont have enough muscle to really get
the full benefits of such high doses of tren.
thats my take on it anyway. i think its a little unfair to just categorize tren for
a fitness look. but i agree, its badly over used and it gets counter productive.

No man is my enemy,
Strength
Perseverance
Gatts
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� Reply #586 on: July 27, 2014, 10:35:40 PM �
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Great stuff as usual DrX
And you are right in regards to test, dbol and drol being the bread and butter of
mass building. A coupleof months ago I meet my new coach which was one of the best
bodybuilders in my country back in the late 90's early 00's. Bodybuilding at that
time was very competitive around here with great money prizes....
They hAve a very similar way to use aas to what you preach in this topic.
Offseason long esters of test along with deca, eq, dbol and adrol... Sometimes a
few primo... Contest time switch the high test (and high test back them was around
1g not 2 or 3... but it was all pharma grade stuff) to low dose propionate
(testovis or veterinarian ) primo winstrol...eq was kept until a certain point...
Tren is the steroid of extremes. Fellas who use a lot of it are fitness guys who
want to look vascular and dry year round or the big gutted freaks aka modern
bodybuilders who use it with lots of slin, gh and test...
Summary :
Tren+mast+low prop= fitness kind of look

Tren +high test+high gh+ high slin= modern freak
So if you are looking for Mike Francois, Newman, Fletcher, Quinn, Strydom, Labrada,
De MAyo.... look, follow DrX advice which is the most suitable for your desire
physique ;)
Fellas here should listen more to DrX and less to the "tren masters" lol
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."
Confucius
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� Reply #585 on: July 27, 2014, 04:45:17 AM �
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test and deca,
eq to form a base
humabuga
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� Reply #584 on: July 26, 2014, 09:49:27 PM �
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Hi drx, you posted in my 'bulk on tren yes/no' thread I am all the more convinced
now to bulk on wet compounds instead of just tren/test etc
I just wanted to ask a few questions if that's ok
-what are you running atm and exact dosages

-how often do you increase the dosages, I know as gains stall but usually how often
is that and how much do you increase the dosage
-i see a lot of posts my about not 'force feeding' and only eating when you feel
hungry however how are you meant to grow if you don't overeat? surely you need a
surplus of cals to grow? or is it letting the hormones do the work and eating in
moderation/not too much as hormones do the nutrient partitioning etc
- how many cals are you on per day when bulking and looking to grow?
carbs/fats/protein daily intakes too please
- how many cals/carbs/fats/protein should one be consuming on a daily basis when
bulking on 500mg test 600mg deca (stats 5,10-,511, just under 200lbs, 10-12% bf
Rubbish
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� Reply #583 on: July 26, 2014, 08:27:38 PM �
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Quote from: Rubbish on July 24, 2014, 07:01:27 AM
Ohh believe me. I have not forgot about the arm workout article. I am just waiting
for my Jedi or expert status first..... LOL
DrX
Why would you really need Jedi status (besides the fact that it looks cool
underneath your username of course ;) )? Everyone around here knows you are VERY
knowledgeable, hence the "GH15 TOP PUPIL Q?A" section ;) .
Thank you dearly for the response. But all kidding aside, this subject is actually
one of the most important anchors that will eventually determine the fate of this
site. Who members respect, listen to and have confidence in the information being
accurate and concise. I am not referring to me in particular, but the name Jedi,
really does not mean anything, but to me refers to as a teacher. A great teacher is
not only someone that gives you great information, but more so, someone who helps
you bring forth that great information. A great teacher does not not always give
the right answers, but a great teacher asks all the right questions.
I cannot keep all the great experiences, knowledge and gifts over the years related
to bodybuilding to myself. I must pass it on and pay it forward for old-school
bodybuilding to survive. As a wise man once said, "it is only in giving the gifts
away that it truly begins to bear fruit within us".
So yes, in a way status does matter, especially HERE where mass confusion resides
between the the fitness competitors, the new age generation of synthol and insulin
users, and the old school come together. Who represents the old school? How does
one get their message across FIRMLY without being drowned out by the constant and
inaccurate noise?
DrX
Top quality post this. The bold part in particular shows you are truly one genuine
member of this board Doc. I, as well as all other members following this thread,
truly appreciate the insight you provide us with. Please keep serving us with your
knowledge :).
gh15 approved
goku
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� Reply #582 on: July 26, 2014, 06:29:27 PM �
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test and deca,
eq to form a base
Drx incredibly insightful info as usual!

i honestly couldnt agree any more with you and your posts on tren. i think its over
emphasized on this board if im honest and viewed as the be all and end all of
building a good physique.
i went the whole of 2013 without using it and i know a fare few pros who strictly
use it for pre contest where its effects are desired.
for me it shines for the reasons you stated, its incredible water manipulation
properties, its hardening effects due to its very high androgenic rating and its
muscle sparing effects because of how strongly it prevent protein degradation.
when building a physique i dont think these effects should be top priority and
other anabolics should be used.
always felt that deca, for me atleast, was a better tissue builder than tren.
plus imo its maybe counter productive to use tren for most of the year, like with
any drug we can build a tolerance to its effects and this is not good when we truly
need it to help polish and bring out the quality in a physique.

No man is my enemy,
Strength
Perseverance
kng
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� Reply #580 on: July 26, 2014, 04:35:02 PM �
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Thanks for the answer!
And yeah you totally deserve jedi, tons of great info that you dont find anywhere
else (the GH story posted late = mind blown)
Dr Zeus
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� Reply #579 on: July 26, 2014, 03:47:49 PM �
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Someone give this man JEDI status! Long overdue..
Plus my arms need this write up!!!


Ronz
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� Reply #578 on: July 26, 2014, 02:58:22 PM �
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posting as a self-reminder to read this later in its entirety
Ultimate kitchen knife guide:
Ventrogluteal injection instructions:

Don't feel like going to the gym today? Read this:

infobrokerz
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� Reply #577 on: July 26, 2014, 02:46:26 PM �
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^^^^Bravisimo, DrX , spoken like a true scholar and well respected member of the
GH15 Family
DrX
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� Reply #576 on: July 26, 2014, 02:07:59 PM �
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DrX
underneath your username of course ;))? Everyone around here knows you are VERY
knowledgeable, hence the "GH15 TOP PUPIL Q?A" section ;).
Thank you dearly for the response. But all kidding aside, this subject is actually
one of the most important anchors that will eventually determine the fate of this
site. Who members respect, listen to and have confidence in the information being
accurate and concise. I am not referring to me in particular, but the name Jedi,
really does not mean anything, but to me refers to as a teacher. A great teacher is
not only someone that gives you great information, but more so, someone who helps
you bring forth that great information. A great teacher does not not always give
the right answers, but a great teacher asks all the right questions.
I cannot keep all the great experiences, knowledge and gifts over the years related
to bodybuilding to myself. I must pass it on and pay it forward for old-school
bodybuilding to survive. As a wise man once said, "it is only in giving the gifts
away that it truly begins to bear fruit within us".
So yes, in a way status does matter, especially HERE where mass confusion resides
between the the fitness competitors, the new age generation of synthol and insulin
users, and the old school come together. Who represents the old school? How does
one get their message across FIRMLY without being drowned out by the constant and
inaccurate noise?
DrX
you."
trenmafia
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� Reply #575 on: July 25, 2014, 04:59:55 AM �
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As far as the ice soda,i've seen first hand Franciss Benfato drinking coke during
his training..
DrX
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� Reply #574 on: July 25, 2014, 01:41:30 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: kng on July 23, 2014, 08:53:10 AM
Quote from: DrX on July 23, 2014, 02:33:58 AM
Quote from: pbm225 on June 15, 2014, 02:58:48 PM
Quote from: Diluted56 on June 06, 2014, 07:12:02 AM
I can understand in regards to your own cut with tren ace causing an immediate loss
of volume. I have only ever used 50mg ED myself over my test & deca base and even
though I am in a bulk I could feel that difference within a matter of days and it
took me by surprise. I began to increase my carb intake and even that seemed to not
make a difference, I actually felt I was getting leaner throughout the 4 week
block! I can imagine that must be a completely different feeling on slin + gh where
it would be comparable to wrapping tightly over an inflated balloon and one would
feel really good about that haha! Some day :P
A question though, when you say you to compensate for the loss of volume (in
regards to using tren ace) and play with with your test levels by adjusting it
upwards, do you feel there is almost a delay in that relief because you are using
test cyp? Its really interesting hearing about your cut
I would like to also hear X's response. I am dealing with this myself now and it
sucks!
My experiment with tren was two fold. First I wanted to see the effect on blood
sugars. It was the last of all the AAS to test on my type2. As there are many tren
users who somehow go hypo for some unknown reason. But Tren did not move my blood
sugars in either direction much. But winstrol did, and I found that fascinating.
Winstrol actually slightly lowered morning fasting blood sugar levels. The second
reason, was to put to rest if tren would increase fat loss with all variables
locked and in place at a lower (<6%) body fat level where I was plateaued. I needed
a last nail in the coffin for the constant bro-science statements that tren is the
best fat burner/nutrient partitioner. My personal end result, tren did not in ANY
WAY, create an environment of increased fat loss period. That was even with an
increased dose of tren to 1ml per day. At a weight of 175lbs or so is more then
enough to move the needle one way or the other. What did happen was the loss of
muscle volume, but there was a nice increase in strength. I did add in Adrol and
extra test to counteract the loss of volume and that helped tremendously. I used a
total of 75mgs of Adol a day, 25mgs upon waking, one 25mg an hour pre-workout and a
last 25mg tab post workout.
so basically, you are now staying on the 4 horsemen, with a prinkle of winny and
primo from now on?
Just a confirmation, test and anadrol will help you burn fat, right? As it should
increase metabolism, something tren does not?
kng, I will get to your question first, because if your asking, then there are
others who need clarification too. Just to summarize and take a step back, ALL AAS
increase metabolic rates. The rate of increase is dose dependent, and generally the
more you run up to a set point the higher the rate. The more lean muscle you obtain
the heavier the body weight, the more you also burn at rest. Just because an AAS
raises metabolic rates does not mean the same thing as the immediate loss of body
fat. Calorie balance still has a huge role to play in this equation. In other
words, say you burn 2000 calories a day and and you intake 3500 calories. No
amounts of AAS can compensate for that large gap in extra energy consumption on a
continuous and daily bases. Certain amounts of calories will be alocated for repair
of structural tissue, provided calories have been stored as energy for muscles in
the form of glucose first. Once muscle and liver stores are topped up or full, the
body has no choice but to store that extra surplus floating around as body fat.
To further clarify Tren, we need to revisit an important comment made in the last Q
and A. "I needed a last nail in the coffin for the constant bro-science statements
that tren is the best fat burner/nutrient partitioner. My personal end result, tren
did not in ANY WAY, create an environment of increased fat loss period".
In other words tren produces NO different metabolic lift then any other AAS in
terms of rates WHEN ENERGY CONSUMPTION AND EXPENDITURE IS BALANCED AND CONTROLLED.
The magic with tren is the water manipulation properties it contains. Especially
when run with AAS that produce the most water retention. The main question
pertaining to tren is the risk to reward, or in other words the sides vs results.
Is the physiological impact tren has warrant its constant use? Does the direct
impact tren has on wrecking lipid profiles warrant its constant use?
I will say this again. When listening to advise about tren. Who is using tren and
for what purpose. Is it a bodybuilder looking for a physique from the 70-90's, or
is it a fitness competitor lookin to stay dryer. When you here this or that
"big/thick" bodybuilder uses tren, ask the next important question. Was their base
built on tren. Was the base built WITH INSULIN GH AND TREN TOGETHER!!!!!!!!!!
My base has been and generally will always be test and deca. Not only because they
produce the best results, but are also gentle and easy on the body's systems when
run at higher doses. I will also have masterone in generally as an anti-estrogen. I
have come to the conclusion mast is not very anabolic on its own though. It just
helps 'turbocharge" the other AAS to their fullest potential. Orals like adrol and
dbol are rotated in from time to time one month on, followed by 4-6 weeks off. Eq,
primo, are the other two rotated in when the orals are out, depending on which
stage I am in.
DrX
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� Reply #573 on: July 24, 2014, 07:01:27 AM �
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DrX
underneath your username of course ;))? Everyone around here knows you are VERY
knowledgeable, hence the "GH15 TOP PUPIL Q?A" section ;).
gh15 approved
jsmsnu
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� Reply #572 on: July 24, 2014, 12:09:57 AM �
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Just read through this entire thread once again.. one of the very best threads on
gh15, thank you for all the wisdom Dr. X!
This thread and the 50+ page Deca thread were what inspired me to try out a new
strategy here in a month; low test, high deca with a bit of masteron plus
dbol/anadrol in n out when I feel fit. can't wait
brings on the arms workout tips!!!!!!!!!

365k a year on sushi.. now thats real bodybuilding
1,600mg deca / 560mg mast-e / 500mg test-sust

AdonisBelt
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� Reply #571 on: July 23, 2014, 03:51:27 PM �
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If anyone is up for Jedi it's this motherfucker!!!
Help me Obi Wan Kenobi DrX, your our only hope!

Do you even GH15?
My ongoing chronicle:
WARNING: All my post are fictional and for pure entertainment purposes, not to be
taken seriously or as valuable advice.
Diluted56
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� Reply #570 on: July 23, 2014, 01:42:51 PM �
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In time related to both the livers and muscle unique need for glucose, I will share
my intra workout protocol shake. Which blend of sugars I use when on insulin R and
why. And what mix is preferential for optimal performance.... Hint, most of what
you see is overly complicated and geared toward you buying unnecessary and
expensive supplements..... What was one top Mr Olympia's incredibly complex and
detailed post workout drink. An ice cold 12oz can of soda!!!
DrX
Looking forward to this. Also don't forget about that arm workout Doc ;)!
Great info as always though.
DrX
Vote for Jedi!

My Log:
DrX
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� Reply #569 on: July 23, 2014, 01:36:26 PM �
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DrX
DrX
you."
Diluted56
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� Reply #568 on: July 23, 2014, 09:53:37 AM �
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DrX loving the posts my man!
What are your personal doses generally while in the off-season for the 4 horsemen?
My Log:
kng
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� Reply #567 on: July 23, 2014, 08:53:10 AM �
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sucks!
so basically, you are now staying on the 4 horsemen, with a prinkle of winny and
primo from now on?
Just a confirmation, test and anadrol will help you burn fat, right? As it should
increase metabolism, something tren does not?
Rubbish
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� Reply #566 on: July 23, 2014, 07:30:46 AM �
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DrX

gh15 approved
infobrokerz
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� Reply #565 on: July 23, 2014, 03:57:09 AM �
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^^^^Yet another outstanding post by our DrX. Thanks brother for all the quality &
valuable information
DrX
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� Reply #564 on: July 23, 2014, 02:33:58 AM �
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sucks!
The second and most objective personal analysis was the look. With the nutrient
base and cardio constant, would tren give me a different look that the addition of
winstrol, primo and mast cannot. And again, the look was no different this time.
But remember this important fact; I'm still on high amounts of deca and test as my
base.
I am very happy to be done with tren once and for all from a psychological and a
physical standpoint!!!! That coffin is buried for me personally, especially at my
age for good!!!
The switch to name brand GH has began too. I was able to get enough Pfizer
Genotropin two chamber cartriges to run 2-3iu a day. I do understand the
consensuses that 2iu is to low for fat loss. And I will tend to somewhat disagree.
But I will need more time to really answer this. So what has happened in this early
experimentation of name brand GH. When I fall below 6% BF my body has a flight or
fight responses at night. I find it very difficult to sleep past 3-4am. It is like
the body is on this evolutionary need to hunt for food and get out of bed. Now why
is that? It has to do with low glucose storage levels. Stable blood glucose based
on storage between the liver, muscle tissue are absolutely essential for normal
brain function. The brain, nervous tissue and certain blood cells can only use
glucose or ketone bodies as its fuel. But, ketone bodies cannot replace glucose as
the brain's energy source on short notice. About 10-14 days are required to
increase plasma ketone body levels such that they can provide energy for brain
tissues. At most they can provide about 50% of the brain's energy, the rest must
come from glucose. An interesting fact, the liver can supply about 16 hours of
glucose, after which other energy sources must be mobilized. Also, liver glycogen
levels fall dramatically during the night so most wake up with little or no
glycogen reserves. That is why I recommend the breakfast of oatmeal I outlined.
This is also the reason most of you have noticed when dieting hard your refill days
allow sleep through the night. The day should begin with a breakfast that includes
carbohydrates. But still even with some carbs for breakfast and another post
workout the reserves of glucose at this level of body fat are not enough. What has
happened objectively on 2iu of pharma grade gh is deeper sleep even in at this
lower body fat stage. The other interesting note has been no changes of waking
glucose levels vs the generics. Second and most important, my weight has really
stabilized and stayed steady for over 2 weeks, even with increased cardio and
lowered calorie intake.
DrX
you."
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� Reply #563 on: July 22, 2014, 05:29:14 PM �
ReplyQuote
Just tore through the thread in a day, my brains hurts from how much I've learned
thank you! It's refreshing to hear someone preaching so strongly about longevity in
the sport. Next blast after my prop/mast/tren will definitely be an old school
higher test and deca with dbol/drol once I'm leaner
Hook 'Em
ironraider
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� Reply #562 on: July 19, 2014, 01:31:09 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Dr Zeus on July 06, 2014, 11:45:31 PM
Wow haha that is some cake! Quite impressive! Did your sister make it? If not can
you imagine what the bakery thought getting that order?? ;D
Absolutely agree with everything above btw! Excellent wisdom as usual!
Happy belated birthday??
Yes, my sister made the whole cake. Including the pin you see out of fondant. She
even drew out the detail marking on the barrel....
DrX
Firstly, HAPPY BELATED (ok way belated) BIRTHDAY!!! That was a fantastic looking
cake...how fun that must have been to see!!! Thanks for sharing Dr X!
ironraider
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� Reply #561 on: July 19, 2014, 01:26:20 PM �
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Quote from: Bigsam on July 02, 2014, 11:44:01 AM
thanks for all this info dr x, very interesting information, especially the one
about oatmeal.
I hope you tried the oatmeal recipe too, and am happy to see at least Ironraider
has implemented the breakfast. I do hope more of you have too. If you tie in the
role of fiber and the extreme importance to your future health, you will understand
the reason for the oatmeal and the frozen FRUIT for breakfast.
http://www.webmd.com/diet/fiber-health-benefits-11/compare-dietary-fibers
DrX
Bro...real life is crippling my time here...but I can so tell the difference of

adding your oatmeal recipe as my daily morning meal. I really need to incorporate
more of your diet elements to my daily routine. With my heavy travel schedule,
staying on track can be such a pain. I know all about prepping the week ahead, but
that is also difficult with family demands.
Any ideas on a guideline?
Thanks again for everything! I hope this message finds you doing well and enjoying
summer!!
DrX
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� Reply #560 on: July 18, 2014, 01:27:53 PM �
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Quote from: pbm225 on June 25, 2014, 02:04:46 AM
You mentioned when dieting that you reduce carbs and up healthy fats to compensate
for calories. Is this done as a means of manipulating water retention, or do you
believe that a lower carb/higher fat intake actually burns more fat?
Bodybuilding is a journey of self realization. What works for you, may NOT work for
me, and vise versa. Dieting down is an art. And for those like myself with
extremely poor genetics it can be hell in a hand-basket especially when you goals
are sub5% BF. I have been under water tested by the Kinesiology department at the
University to verify my levels. I did this to be OBJECTIVE as my body hold patterns
of subcutaneous body fat very different then most. Being a prior fatty haunts me.
The hard truth is we are not built the same, and we all hold patches of stubborn
body fat in different locations. So I needed to know exactly what 5% looks like on
ME. Calipers are too inconsistent, even with multiple locations.
Also what works on the last cycle may not produce the same results on this cutting
cycles. Changes and GENETICS always need to be acknowledged. The example of the
"cold water" trainer is a great example. He had no adherence to any form of
nutritional foundation. Yet he ALWAYS remained lean and hard. Fast food, followed
by protein shakes were the basis of his intake. I can diet down on a higher carb
intake but that will only alow me to the 7-8% range. Obtaining that percentage is
the VERY easy part, even with bad genetics.
We as bodybuilders need to take it down lower from time to time. That time comes
once a year for me regardless. Getting below 7% is tricky and difficult. This is
where the suffering begins for me. At that point to continue with fat loss, I have
to start pulling carbs out and replacing them with more healthy fats. This
balancing act has to be set against loss of muscle and strength and the retention
of body weight. Then there are those who believe you need less AAS during this
critical CATABOLIC time, and I do COMPLETELY disagree. This is one of the reasons I
keep my long acting AAS in. Doses can be kept high (or actually higher) with
minimal effort. Those who can hold on to muscle mass with less AAS during this
phase do not carry extraordinary amounts of lean tissue and or are NOT below 7%. So
they bodies can diet down on less AAS. I cannot!!!
Remember the body is always utilizing a ratio of carbs to fat during the day. Does
the higher fat, low carb intake help burn more fat. That is highly debatable. I can
tell you from a physiological standpoint, the higher fat intake helps curb
appetite. Thus I am able to actually lower calorie intake. Lower carb intake DOES
help with diuresis, and will clear subcutaneous water out. Do I remove all carbs
from the day? NO, I believe a set amount is necessary especially for breakfast and
your post workout meal. These carbs also help keep body weight stable. Your body
weight has a large roll in metabolism. The heavier the body weight, the more
calories the body has to utilize to move that said weight around at rest, the more
calories that are "burned". But as time progresses I will still hit mini plateaus,
and have to continue to drop calories and or increase energy expenditure.
DrX
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Chendes
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� Reply #559 on: July 15, 2014, 08:01:16 PM �
ReplyQuote
Hey DrX. Man, thanks for all the good infos on this topic. I really enjoy reading
it. I?ve red all the 19 pags, started yesterday... ;D ;D
DrX, what do u think of changing into off to diet mode with the same protocol(ex :
600 deca, 700 test e,500 bold u and rotating orals) and same training ?
Does this gonna make me lose part of my gains?
What do u recommend ?
Do I need some time in maintenance before I jump to dieting?
Thnks, bro!
Lucky27
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� Reply #558 on: July 14, 2014, 07:00:18 PM �
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I have a couple questions if you dont mind:
1) I agree with the importance of high fiber - very much so - I shoot for 40-50
grmas daily between fiber supplements and whole food- my question is on the oatmeal
for breakfast - I too add frozen fruit in with my breakfast- except I do cream of
rice-
typically 1/3 cup (dry) cream of rice with 1 full cup frozen strawberries-
I choose to not do oatmeal just because of the 'full' feeling I get from oatmeal-
hard for me to eat within a couplehours after eating oatmeal - now after my cream
of rice and strawberries I drink 1.5 scoop of fiberlyze by speices ( 14 g of a mix
of solubkle and insoluible fiber) what are your thoughts on that breakfast? also do
12 oz eggwhites and 2 scoops whey
2) I typically run 10 or higher iu's pharm grade gh- I also cycle slin 4-5 weeks on
- 4-5 weeks off- when Im off slin should I lower gh - or just keep gh the same
It is the weak who are cruel,
Gentleness can only be expected from the strong
DrX
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� Reply #557 on: July 11, 2014, 02:06:50 PM �
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Quote from: AdonisBelt on July 10, 2014, 03:59:18 PM
That mike Francois posing was fantastic... And his lat spread at some points was
astounding.
Very tight!!!!! That tightness and symmetry and proportionality is not seen as much
anymore... As you mentioned dr x, they are all so bloated now that it seems like a
struggle to achieve that tightness... Ironically due to them trying to be leaner
now year round.
Thanks for the read
Here is one more video to showcase how tight and symmetrical the physiques were.
You can truly see how well a V tapered waist can create the illusion of greater
size and thickness.
1) 1996 NPC Global Bodybuilding - Heavywt Comparisons
DrX
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� Reply #556 on: July 11, 2014, 09:45:11 AM �
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http://clips.team-andro.com/watch/78ab2f06de12d410c1b8/lareport2014-teil-9-die-
haxen-muessen-wachsen-zitat-david-doyouevensquat-rs-sexualhealing
The 70's/80's mentality: This is not all about drugs!
Bodybuilding was really a great cult in the old days :'(

Confucius
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� Reply #555 on: July 10, 2014, 06:15:26 PM �
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That information of gh, slin and aas just blew my mind!
I love how you take these subjects and sum it up with great imagery so easily ie.
relief valve, makes complete sense in terms of growth/lean out phases and adapting
food/training/hormone in take in terms of response to those 3 main components.
My Log:
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� Reply #554 on: July 10, 2014, 03:59:18 PM �
ReplyQuote
That mike Francois posing was fantastic... And his lat spread at some points was
astounding.
Very tight!!!!! That tightness and symmetry and proportionality is not seen as much
anymore... As you mentioned dr x, they are all so bloated now that it seems like a
struggle to achieve that tightness... Ironically due to them trying to be leaner
now year round.
Thanks for the read

Do you even GH15?
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� Reply #553 on: July 10, 2014, 03:14:49 PM �
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Another fantastic and detailed explanation ...Bravo DrX
DrX
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� Reply #552 on: July 10, 2014, 02:16:36 AM �
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Quote from: goodebrah on June 26, 2014, 06:20:39 PM
Hey DrX,
For insulin users do you suggest a change in diet when cycling off slin?
For instance, I'm taking in 5300 calories now in offseason and 800g carbs a day
while using insulin. I will be using slin 4-6 week on then 4 weeks off. During
those 4 weeks off slin should I be lowering my carb intake to avoid getting fat?
Goodebrah, you've asked a very difficult question to answer because there are so
many different variables that come into play. There are those who would answer this
question directly, in my own opinion, only to make themselves look smarter then
they are. Why, the real response will actually have a touch and go answer. I'll
explain.
The first issue we face is what was used during the cycle with insulin? The amounts
of GH, and doses of AAS is critical. How much GH will be used during the time off
insulin. Will you lower AAS doses too? One of the biggest mistakes I see made, that
GH15 has also mentioned was the lowering of AAS when insulin in brought into the
equation, and vise versa. There is a complete misunderstanding of the critical role
AAS dose plays when on slin and GH.
Let's take a step back and remove some bro-science horseshit statements about
insulin, GH and thyroid that have been regurgitated for over the past 20 years
first before we can continue. First, we need to understand the TRUE BASIC role GH,
insulin and thyroid hormones play in the human body. ENERGY storage and utilization
for body cells is their primary signal. Protein synthesis is a SECONDARY function
if energy reserves have been met by those three. ONLY AAS has the role to create
and repair structural muscle tissue. Insulin stores energy for muscle cells to
contract in the form of both glycogen (sugar), and droplets of fat called
triacylglycerols. GH determines WHERE the energy storage takes place, where energy
gets used, and it also provides the hydration of water inside the muscle cells.
Even the notion of thyroid have protein synthesis properties is overstated, because
again its main role is to keep all body cells energy efficient. So what happens
when AAS doses are reduced when insulin is brought in? You lose structural tissue
and gain intramuscular energy reserves. Notice I use the word reserves. They go
EXTREMELY quickly once insulin and gh is removed. This is the KEY, the more
structural tissue you have the more energy storage you can obtain, thus the bigger
you will be, as long as structural tissue continues to grow. This is dependent on
AAS and your response to AAS. AAS and the critical dose is the glue that holds
everything together.
So back to the question, once off slin should the diet change. The touch and go
answer is your ability at this advanced stage to be able to throttle up or down
depending on the factors mentioned above (GH/AAS dose etc...). This is the reason
slin and GH are advanced tools. You have to be able to adjust intake and macro-
nutrient profiles accordingly. Only YOU can do that by observation, trial and
error. It is like the question how many calories do I need to diet down. Impossible
to say because it is so individualistic. Take Matt4 who is also dieting down for
his competition here in the Top Pupil section. He requires 4000Kcal per day to drop
fat tissue. I on the other hand require 1700Kcals per day. He may need a higher
ratio of carbs on top of the calories required where as I can ONLY drop body fat on
a low carbohydrate intake. This is the reason no one but YOU can answer that
question, including the top "coaches" out there. A good coach would need to see
your progress by-weekly to make those touch and go reactions and adjustments.
Remember this important fact, there was a time were bodybuilders figured this all
out on their own, no internet, no coaches, no bro-science, just good gut instincts
and an objective feedback mechanism to keep them on tract.
Now that we have covered the basics of Insulin and gh, I will explain why I
personally feel adding subcutaneous fat during the off-season is extremely
beneficial when using insulin. It is called the relief valve. In my opinion the
reason the 90's were the pinnacle, or creme de la creme of bodybuilding era was
because that generation brought to the table the best combination of size,
thickness, detail and aesthetics. The waist lines were tight, clean and V tapered.
They used the perfect combination of high AAS intake with just the right BALANCE of
insulin to gh. Not too much, or too little. They were actually substantially fatter
in the off season then today's standards. When too much GH is used the bodies
inability to naturally want to store excess calories as subcutaneous fat (under
skin) is diminished. The body has no other choice but to store excessive calories
in places not traditionally held. It has to go somewhere. And in this case like we
are seeing with today's generation, it is being stored intraabdominally or in
between organs, and distorting the bodies midsections. The waist will always widen
and becomes blocky and will stay that way if abused to quickly. The key I mentioned
above is the relief valve of subcutaneous tissue. It can be EASILY dieted off and
as such the body retains all the natural lines it was designed for. The main
problem is the OBSESSION with staying extremely lean at the expense of structural
changes.
Here is a video of the 1992 Arnold Classic. Keep in mind the weight (200-240lbs) of
the competitors you see here and objectively compare that weight with what you see
today, including the amateurs we see starting at 250lbs plus. I have said this
before, the weight they stated back in the day was always 10-15lbs heavier. So in
reality my guess was the true weights of that generations was closer to 220lbs....

Xidon9, your direct question about forearm atrophy, is related to an aspect of

bodybuilding that I have wanted to touch on for a while. And it simply comes down
to what has modern bodybuilding become?
Let me begin with a statement Dash, my dear friend from the gym said to me one day.
If you remember Dash is a member at my gym who has trained with and trained along
side all the greats in Venice. From Arnold all the way to Haney and Dorian when
they would venture down to LA. It is an honor and a pleasure to have met him!!! I
asked him one day who was the most impressive bodybuilder over the years and the
least impressive. He stated his personal favorite and most awe inspiring personally
was Sergio Oliva. The most unimpressive and most repulsive physique in person went
to Dorian Yates. I asked him why? He said bodybuilding has always been about
symmetry and balance. You tried your absolute best to keep all body-parts in line,
and grow them uniformly. He went on to say Dorian had a wide thick back, great
legs, but a horrific chest, arms and mid section. As he walked past me one day and
turned to the side, I actually saw his gut pass his chest line. He then stated in a
lowered disappointed voice, "if this is bodybuilding for the sake of just size,
then bodybuilding is dead".
Bodybuilding has always been about showcasing MUSCLE TISSUE. In the past structural
muscle has classically been used for the movement of the human body. To push or
move something. You trained and dieted to expose the dancing muscle fibers under
the skin. Really starting with Flex Wheeler and his overuse of SEO, to Jay Cutler,
bodybuilding became a new "sport". It is like drinking caffeine free coffee, eating
sugar free chocolate, or fat free cakes. Can there be such a thing as muscle free
bodybuilder?
I akin today's bodybuilders to Foie gras. What is foie gras? It is the liver of a
duck or goose that has been specially fattened deliberately through force-feeding.
Pipes are manipulated down male ducks? or geese?s throats two or three times daily
and then pumped as much as 4 pounds of grain and fat into the animals? stomachs,
causing their livers to bloat to up to 10 times their normal size. The livers are
then cooked and eaten as an overpriced appetizer.
With the extreme use of insulin to selectively store certain nutrients, along with
GH to effectively block unwanted excessive calories and with the advent of SEO and
other "fillers", muscle tissue for today's generation has changed. We are now
showcasing a "fattened" muscle as STORAGE tissue rather then the classical
STRUCTURAL tissue. Most of the newer generation cant see this. This is especially
true beginning with Cutler, then Heath, and especially the new phenom Ramy.
As to answer your specific question about atrophy is tough mainly because I do

believe it comes down to any or all three issues. Once the discontinuance or the
use of lower amounts of insulin will cause the immediate loss of volume to the
forearms. You can clearly see this on Phil Heath when he bounces back and forth in
weight. Even Flex Wheelers arms now have a disturbingly odd, grotesque distorted
shape to them. This was caused by the excessive fillers and SEO abuse over the
years. HE NEVER BUILT REAL ARMS!!!! The proof was in the pudding as they say when
it comes to Jay. His arms and forearms in my opinion are all in the same league as
flex and Phil. They do have in my opinion a very good protocol, as to hide the
manipulation, as of most people looking truly think they are real....
Remember it was GH15 who initially called out the words BLOOFY, and POOFY to
describe Phil Heath. He took a lot of criticism for stating Phil Heath was nothing
more then a plastic "blow up doll". And rightfully so in my opinion.
I added another picture of Ben Pakulski as an example because he is dieted down,

but yet you cannot see any striated structural tissue. Over time you will be able
to see the change of muscle character from real tissue to what is considered
today's best.
DrX
* BenPSyn.jpg (164.51 kB, 1036x691 - viewed 340 times.)
* JayInfection1.jpg (131.56 kB, 529x428 - viewed 327 times.)

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� Reply #534 on: June 29, 2014, 03:53:57 PM �
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I think this is the documentary I was on about...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohT_zoodqfU
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� Reply #533 on: June 29, 2014, 12:16:46 PM �
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DrX...what a great breakdown on Dr. Serrano...truly. So many of us (myself
include) will quickly take hold of information that is directed towards one, and
assume it is for all. IF it is good enough for Evan, and it is good enough for me.
When in fact, it couldn't be further from the truth.
As you mentioned about oatmeal vs. rice. Based on what Dr. Serrano stated, I
wonder how many people are eating white rice for breakfast instead of oatmeal,
simply from what Serrano said, without searching out information. Personally, I
eat the oatmeal breakfast that you provided in this thread...and love it. :)
To this point, you've always have been very good at providing the "balance" of the
information being shared, which for me is much more credible than what others just
throw out there, and are grabbed off as fact. I'm not saying that is what Serrano
is doing. He is extremely knowledgeable and very helpful to the community.
I enjoy listening to what he shares, because there is much information to be found.

But in the same sense, and as you pointed out....to whom is the conversation
directed too?
Well stated my friend!!

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� Reply #532 on: June 29, 2014, 07:55:30 AM �
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Hi DrX, thanks for talking about Ben Johnson. I often think about how much stick he
took after testing positive, both from the media and from some competitors like
Carl Lewis. The truth is that they were all at it, but Ben was unlucky enough to
get caught. In the run up to the London Olympics, the BBC showed an interesting tv
show about Ben Johnson and that era of sprinting. What I thought was funny was that
many of the sprinters of that era that didn't subsequently win any medals were
fairly open about drug use in the sport. The guys that won medlas and have
something to lose still claim they were clean. I'll see if I can find the programme
on youtube.
DrX
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� Reply #531 on: June 28, 2014, 02:02:24 PM �
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Quote from: Gatts on June 19, 2014, 03:13:05 PM
Great posts as usual DRX.! And you are looking really great!
I was misunderstood in regards too test also. Low test is completly diferent from
no test. I have heard na interview with Mike Quinn (at geard up our great buddy
Chris250 is one of the hosts everybody should listen to the shows :)) and he said
he didnt like test at all but what he was meaning was that he prefered other
anabolics in higher dose. And his test was at 500mg in his cycles so not that low
or zero lol
A question for you DrX: Don't you think that most of what people claim as "tren
look" is really winstrol? Here in europe winstrol is number one drying compound!
All the best
Gatts, where have you been my man!!! Good to hear from you.
I just got the opportunity to run winstrol orals at 80mgs a day for 25 days during
this concurrent dieting phase. I have run winny many times before, but at lower
doses, mainly because of dry joint pain that accompanies it. This time with deca
and test in higher amounts winstrol shinned for me. Awesome strength gains along
with hardness and continued dryness. Absolutely ZERO joint pain this time. One of
the reasons I have speculated for the joint pain was because I always had run winny
along side of tren and low test. Without tren in the equation, winstrol positive
properties where leveraged. I can truly understand why winny in Europe may be the
number one drying compound. In my opinion due to the popularity AT THAT TIME, most
of the pictures you've seen from the early 80's to the mid 90's dry look was
because of four very popular compounds: Test prop/Suspension, winstrol, and Halo.
I have always remember two statements from legends in that past. The first was a
quote by Dan Duchaine that said "If you can't grow on Deca and Dbol, you can't
grow on anything!" The second was from a magazine writer in the late 80's early
90's who (I'm trying to recall his name), who felt milligram to milligram winstrol
was the very best compound to put on lean dry tissue.
On a historical side note, winstrol to be blunt was the weapon of choice to produce
top end Olympic athletes. Especially in the non-aerobic sports. For those who may
have not heard of the Canadian sprinter Ben Johnson, he set consecutive 100 metres
world records at the 1987 World Championships and the 1988 Summer Olympics, but was
disqualified for tested positive for winny. The guy looked like a bodybuilder just
about to step on stage. Ben was also known for his outrageous strength claims in
the training rooms too, not all I personally believed. After testing positive, he
took immense media backlash and subsequently lost the Olympic title and both
records.
His very famous coach Charlie Francis wrote a book that I got a chance to read
after the Olympic debacle. He was THE FIRST to be very open and honest about how
the athletes doped, and how they got away from testing. It was his contentions
EVERYONE in the Olympics was on something, but as a good coach, one of your new
important roles was to have your athlete turn out clean. His preference or absolute
favorite for his athletes for lean muscle and speed was winny!!! As they say you
cannot argue with results. If winny presented poor anabolic properties and produces
joint pain for everybody then why was it his number one compound? The Canadian team
ran very sophisticated trials to determine clearance times. It was down to a
science. From the sites of injection to the different amounts needed. If I remember
correctly they ran their trails on injectable winny, but somehow before the
Olympics they ran out of supply. They opted for the oral version which was less
tested, that subsequently caused his detection.
I love the look on Carl Lewis's face on the picture below.
DrX
* ben_johnson1.jpg (453.75 kB, 984x1200 - viewed 418 times.)

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� Reply #530 on: June 27, 2014, 06:05:29 AM �
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Quote from: Ruishbb on June 11, 2014, 05:30:35 PM
Nice and thick look Doctor!
Got to love your chest development. I honestly think that because it is such a
great bodypart on you, you could use some bigger traps though (just my two cents).
Quick question: do you constantly cycle Tren and orals in and out (switching the
orals for the Tren and vice versa), while keeping the base constant of course?
Really appreciate you take the time to consistently update this thread Doc, really
pleasurable reading (as many users before me already said).
Stay healthy.
Hi Ruishbb, If you have read this thread, you will notice I am not a big fan of
tren. It definitely has it's well deserved place especially with today's modern
bodybuilding protocols of high GH and insulin. But, I hardly every use it anymore.
It is like a double edged sword. Looks that it gives with the shirt off, or in tank
tops drops jaws, but in clothes I lose the volume I am accustomed to. The look
where strangers ask if I am a bodybuilder. I am just testing it out now to see if
it has an impact on my blood sugars. Love the look it gives, and the strength gains
are fantastic, it is also the mental side of the equation, that is even for me, is
very difficult to control. With a baby in the house, and working a full 7 days a
week, tren is not my best friend right now. I do cycle orals in and out, and do get
a bit more aggressive with oral doses during the dieting phases....
DrX
Hey Doc,
Thanks a lot for your reply. I indeed read your entire thread and found it very
informative to say the least.
As you said, I noticed that in the beginning of the thread your said you are not a
big fan of Tren, but on June 11th you gave us the hereunder mentioned update on
your protocol which got me wondering about your current way of cycling (since you
mentioned finishing Winstrol, adding in Tren and after a couple of weeks switching
to Anadrol).

Start weight 9 weeks ago 195lbsCurrent weight 174LbsWaist measured at 28.5
inchesCurrent Calorie intake: 1700KcalCardio 6 days a week 45-60 minsProtocol Base:
Test Cyp, Deca, Mast E, Eq (just finished winstrol orals and and am now on tren ace
50mg/d)I will run the ace only for a couple more weeks and then bring back in
Adrol. No T3, or any stimulant required. Due to the diabetes I require 12iu of
insulin R to keep the two daily carb meals in normal ranges. GH is (generic) 4iu a
day. 2iu in the morning/2iu before bed.
Anyways, thank you once again for clarifying your current take on cycling. How long
do you run compounds before switching them out at the moment? Prowrestler advised
to do so every 4 weeks (4 weeks Tren followed by 4 weeks oral).
I hope you (and your family / the baby) are doing well.
gh15 approved
DrX
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� Reply #529 on: June 27, 2014, 02:29:33 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Ruishbb on June 11, 2014, 05:30:35 PM
Stay healthy.
Hi Rubbish, If you have read this thread, you will notice I am not a big fan of
tren. It definitely has it's well deserved place especially with today's modern
bodybuilding protocols of high GH and insulin. But, I hardly every use it anymore.
It is like a double edged sword. Looks that it gives WHEN LEAN, with the shirt off,
or in tank tops drops jaws, but in clothes I lose the volume I am accustomed to. A
thick look where strangers ask if I am a bodybuilder. I am just testing it out now
to see if it has an impact on my blood sugars. Besides the look it gives, the
strength gains are fantastic, it is also the mental side of the equation, that even
for me, is very difficult to control. Especially with a baby in the house who is
still not sleeping through the night, and working a full 7 days a week. Tren has
also never been kind to my blood heath markers either, so limiting this compound is
a MUST for me. I do cycle orals in and out, and do get a bit more aggressive with
oral doses during the dieting phases....
DrX
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� Reply #528 on: June 26, 2014, 06:20:39 PM �
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Hey DrX,
For insulin users do you suggest a change in diet when cycling off slin?
For instance, I'm taking in 5300 calories now in offseason and 800g carbs a day
while using insulin. I will be using slin 4-6 week on then 4 weeks off. During
those 4 weeks off slin should I be lowering my carb intake to avoid getting fat?
-Team Metal-
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� Reply #527 on: June 26, 2014, 04:12:04 PM �
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I feel ashamed that I never took the time to read this thread, it's filled with so
much valuable information.
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� Reply #526 on: June 26, 2014, 03:34:20 PM �
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Bravo DrX , so very well broken down about those specific topics in the Vid with
Centopani and Meadows. Dr Serrano is addressing a direct question for Centopani and
pertains to many people on insulin/gh , etc... You can slow down carbs absorption
like you described and oatmeal is a better nutritional source than rice for these
purposes.
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� Reply #525 on: June 26, 2014, 01:55:56 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: ironraider on June 21, 2014, 02:56:42 PM
Guys, after 30 yrs of training...I'm still learning so much. DrX, you're a HUGE
asset to this community...can't thank you enough for all the information you're
sharing!!
Thank you Ironraider. To be a better bodybuilders we must constantly strive to

learn. The one thing I can say about bodybuilding is that you must ALWAYS remain
humble in the understanding of what you know and be open to change. But at the same
time be critical of what others are implicating and don't just follow the herd. I
am the type that demands results. If your advising me, then show me your finished
product!!!!
I remember a young trainer we once had at my gym about 8 years ago. He was very
VERY gifted genetically, and had developed an amazing physique. I was extremely
impressed to say the least. Within three to four years of AAS use he built a
physique that blew most completely out of the water. With a bit of time and
maturity and the ability to diet properly, he could have battled for top spots at
the national level. He was that blessed. I knew him well enough to where he was
comfortable discussing his cycles, so I had an idea of what he was generally
running. Because of his great personality, good looks, and a physique to match he
became very popular with clients. He only knew the true basics of nutrition and
training, but had a thriving business because everyone wanted to look like him. His
nutrition ALWAYS consisted of fast food for just about every meal always followed
up by supplements and a protein drink. There was no measuring, counting or cooking,
only eating.
If people ask me for advise in the gym, I will always take time to help, but I
never go around and correct others. I have no concern how others train. So, I never
advised him or trained with him, but he had his unique set of interesting quirks.
One interesting thing he had ALL his clients do was to take cold showers as he
stated to all his clients the cold showers were one of the reason for his high
metabolism and muscle mass, not the test and deca mind you. . If a client had sore
joints, they would go take a cold shower. If a client was not losing enough body
fat, they would take a longer colder showers.
Everyone was taking cold showers!! Where was he getting such advice. Run a quick
search of Google for "health benefits" of cold showers. You would be amazed at the
degree of deception. I am not kidding, please look and read....
His lifting form had always been atrocious and ended up getting severely injured
one day. He subsequently never returned to the gym. I guess the cold showers were
unable to solve that problem. I ran into one of his NATURAL clients that he was
personally training well after his disappearance. He too was having severe elbow
problems and was now at a point where he was in chronic pain. He just at that
point started taking over the counter inflammatory meds to help with the swelling
and pain. He took his cold showers religiously, but that was not helping either. He
actually told me he had his whole family including the kids were now taking cold
showers. Well at least he was saving on his energy bill....
But the true issue were the exercises and form the trainer had this client do that
was causing the problem. I did however feel sorry for him and showed a few
alternative triceps exercises to replace the ones I knew were causing the pain. I
never mentioned not to do the cold showers as he was already religiously
indoctrinated and emotionally attached to it. When I did see him a few weeks later,
and asked how his elbows were doing. He said the pain was 90% gone thanks to the
meds and the cold showers. He was still so blind he could not see the true
reality.....
That is the power of influence.
Taking advise from the genetic elite, when I am NOT part of the genetic elite
generally resulted in failure for me. But at the same time taking advice from the
educated elite also resulted in failure. These are the ones who seem to know
everything on paper, but cannot for some reason develop an end goal. A physique!!!!
When taking advise from the experts on a subject I PERSONALLY MUST first understand
who their final end listener truly is. I will give you an example. In the Neverland
section there is a great link dedicated to videos by the well known Doctor Serrano.
This guy knows his stuff. But at the same time who is his advise geared to. Is it
Even Centopani, or John Meadows sitting there or is it the viewership on the net
who does not truly understand the complexities of what those two men are on. What
he discusses with them in private may not be what is shared on the net. Is he
giving general information for the viewership or for the extremely advanced? . I'll
give you an example. When asked what are the biggest risks to bodybuilders, the
doctor brought up hyperinsulinemia, or high insulin levels. And I agree. This is
one of the reasons as a type2 I stay away from the longer acting insulin versions
that will pose big inflammation issues over time. But what are Even and John on?
Insulin AND TONS of it. What kind of insulin? Are they also on the long acting
version too? What about the viewership. Is their high insulin levels caused by
excessive carbohydrate intake or by exogenous insulin intake. Who are his answers
geared to?
He then mentioned a specific genetic responses to oatmeal for certain bodybuilders

in the form of water retention. But here is the problem, what If your goal is to
lower your blood insulin levels by providing your body with slow low glycemic
carbs. Oatmeal being one of the best. If you add in a bit of fat, like I do for my
morning breakfast you slow down the release of carbs into the blood stream even
further thus lowering natural insulin levels. He recommended rice instead. White
rice, short and medium grained being one of the fastest and worst for high insulin
levels. But these high glycemic carbs are necessary for growth too. It is a fine
balance.
But even more important as Dr Serrano states diet is everything. What about the
fiber content between oats and rice. In my humble opinion, we as bodybuilders do
NOT get enough fiber. It WILL BE one one the keys to your health period!!!! Oatmeal
contains an all important soluble fiber. The soluble fiber includes a type called
beta-glucan, which is an indigestible sugar that lowers cholesterol, and contains
other soluble fiber variants including starch, araban and xylan gums. The
insoluble fiber in oatmeal critically aids in digestion too. White rice is also a
grain BUT has had the outer bran removed. Furthermore white rice contains lower
levels of fiber and nutrients due to the lack of bran. It would be a mistake to
misinterpret what Dr Serrano said and remove oatmeal from your diet just because a
VERY small percentage have allergies to it....
Please do me a favor, spend some time understanding the difference between soluble
and insoluble fiber. What their different roles are in the body and how they work.
Read as many articles as you can on why they are so important to your health and
which foods contain them. You will be rewarded over time, that I can promise
you.....
DrX
you."
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� Reply #524 on: June 25, 2014, 02:04:46 AM �
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You mentioned when dieting that you reduce carbs and up healthy fats to compensate
for calories. Is this done as a means of manipulating water retention, or do you
believe that a lower carb/higher fat intake actually burns more fat?
I do not use or endorse the use of illegal hormones. All posts made by PBM225 are
purely fictional, and for entertainment only.
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� Reply #523 on: June 24, 2014, 07:51:58 PM �
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subbed
Here to learn, amount mass, stay shredded.
Current Transformation Log:

Previous Prep Log:

http://gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=24596.0
Please Note: Comments made are merely cyber role playing and do not describe intent
nor real life.
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� Reply #522 on: June 23, 2014, 02:17:14 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: goku on June 23, 2014, 01:33:50 PM
DrX loved the post!
I like that you brought up the Middle Eastern thread, I've read it a couple of
times and I find it hard to believe they developed those physiques with limited-to-
low test without ever having growth periods where they blasted higher test doses to
push the weight and thickness up.
Also that is very interesting in regards to generic gh causing those slight mishaps
and possibly being a contributor to your (IMO) undeserved type2 diabetes situation.
I've been doing research into generics vs pharma and if you can have the
opportunity to run a brand GH at 2-3iu a day I think it will be incredibly
beneficial not only for your outstanding physique but also health wise now going
forward having that quality control.
Do you think you would have brought insulin in at some point if the diabetes had
not developed? Perhaps it can be viewed as a 'silver lining' in the cloud that you
can now have this variable to push your physique? Or is just a pain in the ass now?
Well I'm glad to hear things seem to be improving in all aspects of your life and
you can now actually 'enjoy' the cut and rebound nicely going forward.
I'll let you be the judge and jury. If your are familiar with this off-season look,
then you'll know exactly what it takes to obtain this degree of mass... No way to
hide it with pictures as only a few compounds can do this. Remember what DrX said
the number one side effect of steroid use is, especially when your income is solely
based on image? You become a liar. A liar to protect your livelihood. A liar to
protect your identity and image, a liar to protect your self from excessive
competition.
DrX
awesome post!
i think a lot of the low test stuff came from Buselmo, while i agree and its def
plausible that during pre contest preps middle eastern fellas may not use test at
all and switch to anabolics and dryer compounds,
i find it hard to believe that they would leave out test in the offseason.
especially when pharma grade test is so readily available in those regions and easy
to get.
even though hes a really good guy, cant rely solely on one fella's insight on how
middle eastern bodybuilders do things.
Can I get another HALLELUIAH, AMEN!!!! This time with your hands in the air......
DrX]
competition.
DrX
awesome post!
i think a lot of the low test stuff came from Buselmo, while i agree and its def
plausible that during pre contest preps middle eastern fellas may not use test at
all and switch to anabolics and dryer compounds,
i find it hard to believe that they would leave out test in the offseason.
especially when pharma grade test is so readily available in those regions and easy
to get.
even though hes a really good guy, cant rely solely on one fella's insight on how
middle eastern bodybuilders do things.
No man is my enemy,
Strength
Perseverance
Diluted56
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� Reply #520 on: June 23, 2014, 10:32:06 AM �
ReplyQuote
DrX keep dropping those bombs!
Really excited for the release on detailed arm training and those last pics look
incredible!
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� Reply #519 on: June 23, 2014, 09:32:46 AM �
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Very much looking forward to Dr X's next chapter!
Henry Rollins
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� Reply #518 on: June 23, 2014, 09:27:52 AM �
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DrX, thanks so much for this thread, I learned a lot from it.
I saved some your advices to my notes :)
DrX
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� Reply #517 on: June 22, 2014, 10:43:32 PM �
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DrX loved the post!
competition.
DrX
* Lean1.jpg (45.64 kB, 537x720 - viewed 611 times.)
* Lean2.jpg (149.86 kB, 800x597 - viewed 616 times.)

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� Reply #516 on: June 22, 2014, 07:46:14 PM �
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Xidon9 is a fictional character.
All of his posts are for entertainment purposes only.
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� Reply #515 on: June 22, 2014, 02:05:43 PM �
ReplyQuote
THICK!!!
I now see what you mean about thickness from the side!
Very nice..looking forward to the arm right up my man.


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� Reply #514 on: June 22, 2014, 01:33:49 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Dr Zeus on June 20, 2014, 02:52:22 PM
Quote from: czyc on June 20, 2014, 02:34:30 PM
Stay tuned for my Arm write-up. It will forever change the way you think about
training biceps and triceps. I am working on that now and will out shortly...
Looking forward to it.
Thanks again Dr.X for sharing all of this information and your experiences, much
appreciated.
As am I! Arm day tomorrow...
Did someone say arms!!! Coming soon to a theater near you....
Update: Dropped calories down by another 100Kcal per day and added in 10 more
minutes of cardio while increasing speed on the treadmill by .02mph. I am semi-flat
at this point, but am feeling OK. Have not lost much strength on any exercise.
Still using the same weight for each body part that I was training with at my
heaviest in the 190 pound range.....
One key to the maintenance of strength during dieting has been and always will be
how you cheat and when you cheat. I have ALWAYS recommended cheat days. Today is
Sunday (quads will be trained), and I will begin my full day of a significantly
higher carb intake along with fats (with Insulin R). I could hear some of you gasp,
insulin with fats.....NOOOO. But yes, I will actually run this all day into my last
meal before bed....
DrX
* 6182014 008GH15a.jpg (102.34 kB, 640x853 - viewed 678 times.)
* 6182014Gh15b.jpg (101.05 kB, 640x853 - viewed 670 times.)

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� Reply #513 on: June 21, 2014, 02:56:42 PM �
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Guys, after 30 yrs of training...I'm still learning so much. DrX, you're a HUGE
asset to this community...can't thank you enough for all the information you're
sharing!!
DrX
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� Reply #512 on: June 21, 2014, 02:05:06 PM �
ReplyQuote
@Diluted I'm aware. However, he posted a video showing how "piston" style is done
with leg training. I wanted to know if he had a similar example for chest. Thanks
for your two cents.
Good early Saturday morning pbm, the reason I have PURPOSELY not put up any piston
style videos for chest, has been because most of what I have seen has had extremely
poor technique, and positioning, in the the stroke. A video needs to show every
different exercise done correctly. Combine that with sup-par exercise choices
today's generations have developed. I DO NOT WANT YOU TO LEARN or copy from them...
I am still searching for great videos, but will combine that with the write-up when
done..
DrX
you."
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� Reply #511 on: June 21, 2014, 01:26:57 PM �
ReplyQuote
@Diluted I'm aware. However, he posted a video showing how "piston" style is done
with leg training. I wanted to know if he had a similar example for chest. Thanks
for your two cents.
Diluted56
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� Reply #510 on: June 21, 2014, 10:07:19 AM �
ReplyQuote
Do you have any good examples of the piston training for chest? I believe jay
cutler does this in most of his videos but not sure if that is what you're
referring to.
He's covered a lot on chest specific training in this thread already

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� Reply #509 on: June 20, 2014, 10:06:55 PM �
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Do you have any good examples of the piston training for chest? I believe jay
cutler does this in most of his videos but not sure if that is what you're
referring to.
kng
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� Reply #508 on: June 20, 2014, 03:59:18 PM �
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Talk about a reality check.
Dr Zeus
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� Reply #507 on: June 20, 2014, 02:52:22 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: czyc on June 20, 2014, 02:34:30 PM
appreciated.
As am I! Arm day tomorrow...


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� Reply #506 on: June 20, 2014, 02:34:30 PM �
ReplyQuote
appreciated.
Diluted56
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� Reply #505 on: June 20, 2014, 01:41:18 PM �
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You literally are a beacon of light.
My Log:
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� Reply #504 on: June 20, 2014, 01:35:33 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX loved the post!
Diluted56, your question about would I have brought insulin in at some point if the
diabetes had not developed is one I thought of all yesterday. And I will give you
my personal, honest and quite a harsh answer. The answer is no. I would not at this
point be on insulin, if I did not have type2. There are two reasons why. First, I
have seen the bodies from my old school gyms and others I personally know not on
insulin and have seen first hand what can be built over time with the right doses
on AAS and gh alone. I am still testing the lower boundaries of those doses. Their
bodies have a different look especially as they age. It is a thick hard, dense
granite look, that has been and always will be my goal. Insulin brings a slightly
different look to the table.
Second, I have also had my fair share of going hypo over the last year. Even with
my detailed approach of continual testing of blood sugars and tight control of
carbs to match. Insulin at times is unpredictable. I had an event early one morning
as I was preparing to go to work. All the variables were the same, what I ate, the
cardio, insulin dose, and blood sugars readings. Nothing was out of the norm.
Within 20 mins of taking 15iu of R insulin, my body went extremely hypo. It some
how hit me like a fright train.The bolus of insulin hit me all at once. I knew I
was going down fast, but still wanted to test my blood sugars instead of getting in
glucose quickly. BIG MISTAKE!!! I was so incoherent and was unable to take my
blood sugars. I had glucose tabs by my bed side, but I knew I was in deeper trouble
then what they could provide. Lucky enough my wife was downstairs in the kitchen
and was able to get her to bring me some soda. I sat there for about 30 minutes on
my bed unable to move drenched in sweat. Covered in cold sweat, as if I had been
through a rain storm. Every inch of my body was soaking shivering wet.
You will pay someday, if you want to play!!!
I have also had numerous occasions of mild hypoglycemia too. But they are
manageable. How do I explain this. Once you start using slin at higher doses,
you've now become a slave to slin. You are chained and no longer a free man to do
as you please, go where you want, eat what you want. Insulin R will dictate the
next 3-4 hours of your life, depending on dose. Missing that meal or drink by as
little as five minutes makes the difference between functioning and being
productive with real life demands and or suffering. That is the reality for me. In
my busy world on the go, balancing insulin with a 7 day a week work schedule and a
young family is a at times a tricky en devour.
This leads me into an interesting discussion that I have thought about many times.
How do the pros we have all admired function with the demands of a full time job
and bodybuilding. If you have noticed, once a good amateur turns pro and
deservingly gets supplement contracts and sponsors they no longer work. WHY???
Insulin changes the model drastically. Once they no longer work, they cannot save
for their futures. Most of what they make goes back into the bodybuilding
lifestyle. With the exception of maybe the top 3 in the world who wisely invest,
their futures have no stability beyond bodybuilding. I cant imagine 200iu of slin
a day along with GH in an environment where you have to be sharp, critical and
aggressive especially in cut throat business world. You have to look at champions
like Flex, and Kevin Levrone who seem COMPLETELY lost today. Spending time
promoting their own supplement scams to make ends meet with nothing to show for all
those years of being the best of the best!!!!
And if they were truly the best of the best and understood bodybuilding inside and
out. From the training side to nutrition with all its little "secrets", why have
they not helped any other bodybuilder achieve such physical greatness?
A little reality to think about...
DrX
training biceps and triceps. I am working on that now and will try and put that out
shortly...
you."
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� Reply #503 on: June 19, 2014, 03:13:05 PM �
ReplyQuote
Great posts as usual DRX.! And you are looking really great!
I was misunderstood in regards too test also. Low test is completly diferent from
no test. I have heard na interview with Mike Quinn (at geard up our great buddy
Chris250 is one of the hosts everybody should listen to the shows :)) and he said
he didnt like test at all but what he was meaning was that he prefered other
anabolics in higher dose. And his test was at 500mg in his cycles so not that low
or zero lol
A question for you DrX: Don't you think that most of what people claim as "tren
look" is really winstrol? Here in europe winstrol is number one drying compound!
All the best

Confucius
Diluted56
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� Reply #502 on: June 18, 2014, 09:01:18 AM �
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DrX loved the post!
My Log:
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� Reply #501 on: June 17, 2014, 01:24:33 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Diluted56 on June 12, 2014, 02:29:41 PM
DrX looking crazy bro!
How much further do you have left in your cutting phase?
Diluted56, I'll answer your question first because that is actually what is
paramount on my mind. I will get to pbm225, and your other question about tren and
loss of critical volume in a bit. Now that I have adjusted my test levels up and
added Anadrol back in earlier to counteract this issue, I will need a few weeks to
clarify some unknowns.
I did not get a chance on the last cutting phase to take myself down to levels I
wanted. The baby delivery date was priority number one and dieting concurrently
would have been a big mistake. I can't believe how time has flown on by. He is just
about to turn one. Then there was the sudden diagnosis of type2. So I had to begin
all over again with low doses and compounds isolated to re-learn my body's response
to each. I did not get the opportunity to use the sling shot effect after dieting
straight into my growth phase. So I did lose some great opportunities last year. I
started growing from a much higher BF percentage then I wanted and at lower doses.
Insulin also had to be balanced between bodybuilding purposes and diabetic needs.
It was a complicated time, but it all happened for the best.
This time, I can take it down a couple of notches in body fat, and really grow from
a better starting point. The sleep apnea that reared it's ugly head has completely
subsided. So I can no longer take my self past 8% or so. My goal now has to be in a
range between 4-5% to 8%.
Second, I owe it to myself and the GH15 community to run name brand GH. To this day
running FDA GH has been completely out of the question due to both growing business
opportunities, and other investments that must be made here and now for my families
future. I could not justify the cost for future financial security. Generics have
worked well for me. BUT, here is the big but, at what cost. And I have to be honest
with you also when it comes to these generics. There have been many issues I have
faced over the years. I have had batches where my eyes would twitch violently, I
have batches which caused severe muscle cramping, I have had batches that caused
nothing. All thrown out and discarded at a huge loss. It has been a hit and miss
over the years. There is to some degree no quality control from one sponsor to
another, and from one batch to the next. As they say buyer beware!!!
Who is to even say in all truthfulness that the impurities in the generics caused
the diabetes?
But the other side of the equation has to be presented too. The generic GH I have
used did serve its purpose. There seems to have been enough of the GH peptide over
time to have primed the body to afford using higher doses of test with no
complications. I must state it has taken me many, many years to build this base so
the combination of higher lean tissue base along with gh and also the concurrent
use of masterone have been the keys.
So very shortly I may, and I'll use this word lightly, MAY get a chance to run a
name brand GH at 2-3iu a day. I am only using the generics at 4iu a day, so the
difference should be very noticeable.
This leads me to another honest assessment of how dose and duration have brought
about changes for my physique. There are two common PM's I receive and they both
deserve another look into. The first has to do with extreme disappointment with
true lean tissue gains with the over use of "polishing AAS". The constant confusion
of high test or low test, high tren or low to no tren. A great example is the
Persian bodybuilder threads where it appears on surface they are not running any
test. I will say this again, test is the key. Bodybuilders may claim they are not
CURRENTLY running high test, but you had better believe it was quietly part of
their biggest growth phase in the off-season or in the past. It is the extreme use
of test, or extreme use of DBol/Adrol that can get one to a certain size. Tren can
only be used successfully with the high use of test and insulin if a bodybuilding
type of physique is your goal. Let that sink in!!!
Tied into the above is the question, can I look like the guys in the 70's on a
total of 1000mgs/week or a little over a gram and a half a week of AAS. The direct
answer is no. Again, what were the doses used during that time. 3-5grams of injects
and orals per week. No less then 2g of injects PLUS between 700 to1400/week of
orals (DBOL/Adrol) period.
To put the nail in the coffin, what have been the key ingredients that have made,
GROWN, developed, established, created, 100% of the TOP Tier 1 pros prior to this
new generation <2010 in no particular order.
1) Test
2) Deca
3) Dbol
4) Adrol
5) GH
6) Insulin
Everything else was in the supporting cast role...
Here is a great thread created by Lean82 of his own experience which helps validate
what has been said with this very complicated (but simple) matter.....
DrX
* DarremCharles (4).jpg (18.02 kB, 190x258 - viewed 512 times.)

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� Reply #500 on: June 15, 2014, 02:58:48 PM �
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sucks!
Dr Zeus
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� Reply #499 on: June 14, 2014, 02:14:08 PM �
ReplyQuote
Just read through the whole thread again! Learn more and more every time I do so..
Question for you. How long should the typical mass phase be if done right? I know
you say get to 10-12% then start cutting but at what rate should one be aiming for?
I am thinking 4-6 month range?
And another... what kind of caloric surplus do you like to run? Do you aim so you
are just gaining say 1-2lbs a week? This kind of relates to my other question as in
the rate to be aiming for. Could i get to 10-12% in 10-12 weeks, maybe. But would I
rather stretch it to 6 months, make the most of it and throw quality size on? YES!
Question is: is that the smart way of doing it and how should it be approached.
Thanks Drx!
There are so many factors to consider in the time frame needed to really grow. The
first factor that must be taken into consideration is the dose to true lean tissue
ratio. As time progresses and muscle is gained with each subsequent phase, it will
take you longer to move from say 6% to 10-12% body fat. In other words the more
muscle mass you carry the longer it takes. So each subsequent growth phase will
take longer to get fatter, as long as diet and doses are maximized. Some will reach
12% within 10 weeks depending on muscle maturity and dose and for others it could
take 4 months. GH will play a big role in this equation. The more you use the
harder it gets to put on fat and the longer the phase may be.
I have an issue with those promoting set growth goals per week. There will be weeks
where you may gain 5lbs and there will be weeks where you gain 2lbs. There will
also be weeks where you gain no pounds and there will be weeks where you will lose
weight. There is no set lb per week model. As long as you are progressing. This is
critical to understand, even the weeks where you are not gaining weight are also
the weeks where body composition is still changing and is not static. In other
words fat loss and lean tissue gain at the same time.
One of the important components to the question is your ability to be objective and
honest with yourself as time progresses. You must also through experience to be
able to tell the difference between water retention and body fat gain. This is key.
They ARE different. Once you know and understand the differences you can make those
adjustments to calorie intake up or down as needed.
The one big mistakes I see most make in the off-season is the misunderstanding of
calorie requirements for different days. Certain body parts will require more
calories on training days and some will require less. Your leg day should have the
most intake of calories. For example, I have an isolated arm day, so on that
particular day will require less calories then say the metabolic demands on just
squats or leg presses. So each day depending on what is trained will have slightly
different requirements. Your heavy compound days are the days you may really need
the extra good fats, and yes even refined carbs. And those are the days you may
splurge a bit...
DrX
Excellent response. The way I am doing it so far is base diet of 4k cals. I will
take things out on say arm day and my off day down to 3600 or so. Add some goodies
on my big heavy days like chest, legs, back. Keep at4k on shoulders. So far up
about 4lbs. Which I expect that to slow down. I will just aim for 10-11% then start
leaning out again.
Thanks as always doc.


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� Reply #498 on: June 14, 2014, 01:59:46 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: New user on June 10, 2014, 11:40:06 PM
DoctorX,
I have just finished reading your entire thread.
When I start my first course, I will try to imply your methodology ( using
compounds that may cause water, but focus strongly in diet at the same time ).
You may be of help to me with a problem i have expeirienced.

Do you have any advice for healing bone fractures?
I had a open/compound fracture to my leg bones ( Tibia and Fibula)
And am trying to learn anything I can from the best knowledgable people I can think
of.
If you need more details, or would like to know how I broke my bones , please click
this link below, thanks you again for your very helpfull contribution.
I am sorry to see your injured. But you will get through this with time. Your link
already provides all the valuable information you will need. I could not add
anything more to what has been said and said so very well.
Take your time coming back and most importantly as I have said when it comes to
injuries, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY!!!
DrX
you."
DrX
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� Reply #497 on: June 13, 2014, 01:26:47 PM �
ReplyQuote
Thanks Drx!
There are so many factors to consider in the time frame needed to really grow. The
first factor that must be taken into consideration is the dose to true lean tissue
ratio. As time progresses and muscle is gained with each subsequent phase, it will
take you longer to move from say 6% to 10-12% body fat. In other words the more
muscle mass you carry the longer it takes. So each subsequent growth phase will
take longer to get fatter, as long as diet and doses are maximized. Some will reach
12% within 10 weeks depending on muscle maturity and dose and for others it could
take 4 months. GH will play a big role in this equation. The more you use the
harder it gets to put on fat and the longer the phase may be.
I have an issue with those promoting set growth goals per week. There will be weeks
where you may gain 5lbs and there will be weeks where you gain 2lbs. There will
also be weeks where you gain no pounds and there will be weeks where you will lose
weight. There is no set lb per week model. As long as you are progressing. This is
critical to understand, even the weeks where you are not gaining weight are also
the weeks where body composition is still changing and is not static. In other
words fat loss and lean tissue gain actually occurring at the same time.
One of the important components to the question is your ability to be objective and
honest with yourself as time progresses. You must also through experience to be
able to tell the difference between water retention and body fat gain. This is key.
They ARE different. Once you know and understand the differences you can make those
adjustments to calorie intake up or down as needed.
The one big mistakes I see most make in the off-season is the misunderstanding of
calorie requirements for different days. Certain body parts will require more
calories on training days and some will require less. Your leg day should have the
most intake of calories. For example, I have an isolated arm day, so on that
particular day will require less calories then say the metabolic demands on just
squats or leg presses. So each day depending on what is trained will have slightly
different requirements. Your heavy compound days are the days you may really need
the extra good fats, and yes even refined carbs. And those are the days you may
splurge a bit...
DrX
you."
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� Reply #496 on: June 12, 2014, 02:29:41 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX looking crazy bro!
How much further do you have left in your cutting phase?

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� Reply #495 on: June 11, 2014, 05:30:35 PM �
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Stay healthy.
gh15 approved
kng
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� Reply #494 on: June 11, 2014, 03:41:53 PM �
ReplyQuote
Your chest is awesome tbh.
Looking sick.
DrX
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Re: DrX Photos:70-80's Protocol: Updated Pictures Pg17

� Reply #493 on: June 11, 2014, 01:40:05 PM �
ReplyQuote
Here are a few updated photos taken yesterday. I decided to snap a few with my
training partners camera phone to give an idea of where I am. The lighting was bad
and washed me out a bit, but the general look can be discerned. I will take a few
more in the gym in the following weeks with different angles to give a better
overall picture. When I am completely done with this dieting phase, I will take
complete pictures with my good camera.
Start weight 9 weeks ago 195lbs

Current weight 174Lbs
Waist measured at 28.5 inches
Current Calorie intake: 1700Kcal
Cardio 6 days a week 45-60 mins
Protocol Base: Test Cyp, Deca, Mast E, Eq (just finished winstrol orals and and am
now on tren ace 50mg/d)
I will run the ace only for a couple more weeks and then bring back in Adrol.
No T3, or any stimulant required.
Due to the diabetes I require 12iu of insulin R to keep the two daily carb meals in
normal ranges. GH is (generic) 4iu a day. 2iu in the morning/2iu before bed.
I have just finished reading your entire thread.
When I start my first course, I will try to imply your methodology ( using
compounds that may cause water, but focus strongly in diet at the same time ).
You may be of help to me with a problem i have expeirienced.

Do you have any advice for healing bone fractures?
I had a open/compound fracture to my leg bones ( Tibia and Fibula)
And am trying to learn anything I can from the best knowledgable people I can think
of.
If you need more details, or would like to know how I broke my bones , please click
this link below, thanks you again for your very helpfull contribution.
If you have any advice on speeding the healing of A bone fracture, Please PM me,
thanks.
Scania
Prince
***
Posts: 356

� Reply #490 on: June 10, 2014, 04:37:43 PM �
ReplyQuote
One of the best threads in here,thank you :D
reasons!!
Raul
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 7330
?prowrestler? / Built by PG

� Reply #489 on: June 09, 2014, 04:35:06 PM �
ReplyQuote
Right when I turned 15 I was able to get my first job. It was as a box boy at the
local grocery store. For those who do not know what a box boy is, we are the ones
who would get the empty shopping carts from the parking lot, clean the floors, and
bag groceries at the check stands. And I loved it. That was 28 years ago....
Within a year I was chosen to represent my market of 45 or stores in the district

for a competition to go against every other box boy in the company to see who was
the best box boy in the state. At that age I did not know much about politics, so I
took second to a very social well spoken box boy in his 20's from up north. It was
a great experience. It was at that time where I meet my arch rival and nemesis.
Who was he. Every Saturday afternoon an older gray haired customer in his 50's
would be waiting for me at the stores front counter. He always wore the same
thing. Torn old white shirt with stains and holes, Bermuda shorts, flip flops with
white socks and and old fashion music over the head walk man. He NEVER took the
walk man off his ears. He also rarely talked to me much nor could I ever hear what
was ever playing in his ears. What did he want. He would buy four to eight shopping
carts FULL of soda, juice, and water every weekend. To do what with, I did not
know. I assumed he was using the deals and coupons he had to resell the merchandise
for his business. He bought so much from the store my bosses always made sure I was
always available for him. He would not accept any other box boy to help. It was
always and only me.
So we would go to the soda aisle with empty shopping carts and fill them up to the
brim. He would point to what he wanted as we went through the aisle with very few
words spoken between the two of us. Please and thank you were not part of his
vernacular. But saying "please and thank you" was a part of who I was and I was
raised that way. I think that is why I hated him so much.
Now came the hard part. Those shopping carts full of heavy soda and juice had to be
loaded carefully into his old windowless van. Just imagine a rusty silver child
molester van, and that is what you have. Summer months the inside of the van would
get to heat levels that were unbearable at times. I would get in and he would hand
me the items to be stacked from the back to front, making sure it was well balanced
and stable. Always done with no verbal communication. He would just listen to the
music in his ear sets. I would watch him leave at times where the rear bumper was
so low it would scrape the driveway as he pulled away.
About 10 years ago as I was flipping through one of our local news papers, and
there was his PICTURE, with a headline that said he was about to receive an award
from the city of Los Angeles, for his long standing donations and care for
homeless. WTF, I thought, as all those emotions came flooding back. This guy is
getting an award, he is a philanthropist. Get out of here......
Come to find out he was a retired Dodger, a professional baseball player who would
every Sunday feed and give drink to the homeless down in the part of LA called skid
row. If you have never seen or heard, it is a part of downtown with the most
concentrated of the poor and homeless. He used his own money every weekend to feed
and give drink.
And unbeknownst to me at the time I was part of his charity. I wish he would have
told me. But I came to find out he kept his charity very quiet. He was not the type
who would scream LOOK AT ME...
Well last week I saw him for the first time since I was a teenager. He was standing
in line at the post office. As I walked in and got in line I immediately recognized
him. He still was wearing the same exact thing, including the head phones over his
head. I wanted to say something to him, but I did not. I just stood there and
stared at him. As he walked out of the post office it brought a big smile to my
face. I was happy through my small sacrifice I was also able to bring just a bit a
joy to someone in poverty. He never shook my hands, or ever looked me in the eyes
to say thank you ever. But I respect the man for his caring of humanity.
My nemesis was a good man after all....
Never judge a book by it's cover.....
DrX
I enjoy read this bro

?dani desmarchais?
GH15ER TILL DEATH
OdyOdd
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 988

� Reply #488 on: June 09, 2014, 02:51:35 PM �
ReplyQuote
Wow, I enjoyed reading that story. Was a good man indeed regardless of his manners.
DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #487 on: June 09, 2014, 02:20:55 PM �
ReplyQuote
Right when I turned 15 I was able to get my first job. It was as a box boy at the
local grocery store. For those who do not know what a box boy is, we are the ones
who would get the empty shopping carts from the parking lot, clean the floors, and
bag groceries at the check stands. And I loved it. That was 28 years ago....
Within a year I was chosen to represent my market of 45 or stores in the district

for a competition to go against every other box boy in the company to see who was
the best box boy in the state. At that age I did not know much about politics, so I
took second to a very social well spoken box boy in his 20's from up north. It was
a great experience. It was at that time where I met my arch rival and nemesis.
Who was he. Every Saturday afternoon an older gray haired customer in his 50's
would be waiting for me at the stores front counter. He always wore the same
thing. Torn old white shirt with stains and holes, Bermuda shorts, flip flops with
white socks and and old fashion music over the head walk man. He NEVER took the
walk man off his ears. He also rarely talked to me much nor could I ever hear what
was ever playing in his ears. What did he want. He would buy four to eight shopping
carts FULL of soda, juice, and water every weekend. To do what with, I did not
know. I assumed he was using the deals and coupons he had to resell the merchandise
for his business. He bought so much from the store my bosses always made sure I was
always available for him. He would not accept any other box boy to help. It was
always and only me.
So we would go to the soda aisle with empty shopping carts and fill them up to the
brim. He would point to what he wanted as we went through the aisle with very few
words spoken between the two of us. Please and thank you were not part of his
vernacular. But saying "please and thank you" was a part of who I was and I was
raised that way. I think that is why I hated him so much.
Now came the hard part. Those shopping carts full of heavy soda and juice had to be
loaded carefully into his old windowless van. Just imagine a rusty silver child
molester van, and that is what you have. Summer months the inside of the van would
get to heat levels that were unbearable at times. I would get in and he would hand
me the items to be stacked from the back to front, making sure it was well balanced
and stable. Always done with no verbal communication. He would just listen to the
music in his ear sets. I would watch him leave at times where the rear bumper was
so low it would scrape the driveway as he pulled away.
About 10 years ago as I was flipping through one of our local news papers, and
there was his PICTURE, with a headline that said he was about to receive an award
from the city of Los Angeles, for his long standing donations and care for
homeless. WTF, I thought, as all those emotions came flooding back. This guy is
getting an award, he is a philanthropist. Get out of here......
Come to find out he was a retired Dodger, a professional baseball player who would
every Sunday feed and give drink to the homeless down in the part of LA called skid
row. If you have never seen or heard, it is a part of downtown with the most
concentrated of the poor and homeless. He used his own money every weekend to feed
and give drink.
And unbeknownst to me at the time I was part of his charity. I wish he would have
told me. But I came to find out he kept his charity very quiet. He was not the type
who would scream LOOK AT ME...
Well last week I saw him for the first time since I was a teenager. He was standing
in line at the post office. As I walked in, I immediately recognized him. He still
was wearing the same exact thing, including the head phones over his head. I wanted
to say something to him, but did not. I just stood there frozen and stared at him.
As he walked out of the post office, it brought a big smile to my face. I was happy
through a small sacrifice I was also able to bring just a bit a joy to someone in
poverty through him. He never shook my hands, or ever looked me in the eyes to say
thank you ever. But I respect the man for his caring of humanity.
My nemesis was a good man after all....
Never judge a book by it's cover.....
DrX
you."
Diluted56
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 1543
GH15 South Africa

� Reply #486 on: June 06, 2014, 07:12:02 AM �
ReplyQuote
Really appreciate the reply DrX
You definitely helped clear up the indecisiveness I have been feeling regarding the
best approach to lean out a bit later this year
I really like what you said in regards to having a bit of water with the cut as its
a "better anabolic cellular enivorment" and only when in striking distance aiming
to remove water, but better part of the lean out phase should be concerned with
"the retention of muscle and the removal of fat" first.
I think when it comes to cutting the use of polishers from the get-go seems to
almost be the 'norm' in regards to a tren a/mast p/test p assault where LOJ has
preached but again like you mentioned in previous posts it is generally assumed at
that level that combination is extrapolated with the assistance of slin + gh. I am
in no rush to move onto those levels but your post has helped me clarify a few
points and ideas I want to try on my first hormone based cut. I feel a lot more
confident going forward, thank you for taking the time to shine light on my path :)
My Log:
Dr Zeus
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 2470

� Reply #485 on: June 05, 2014, 04:55:41 PM �
ReplyQuote
Thanks Drx!


DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #484 on: June 05, 2014, 02:17:05 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX thank you for continuing your posts and educating us on your life experiences,
sorry to hear at times it hasn't been the greatest of times but you are a true
testament to the bodybuilding way of life. I read through your thread again as I
always seem to find a gem or two I skipped over through the wealth of information.
I have a question for you and I would like to make it as short as possible for you,
if you wouldn't mind helping me out?
I love the 70s & 80s physiques and would love to have something like that for
myself someday and it is what I am working towards on a daily basis.
I plan to cut later this year, thinking November.
I have been bulking throughout this year moving the scale weight up gradually over
time.
Basic info
I have stayed consistent on my dose of EOD injections of test and deca for over 8
months. (600 - 800mg Test & 750 - 1g Deca), the reason for the mg variation is due
to eod pins so 4 pins one week and 3 pins the next. I rotate between tren ace
350mgs a week for 4 weeks and dbol at 50mg ed for 4 weeks over my test & deca base.
The ratio of my base to polishers is 5:1 (1800mg : 350mg). The reason for the
shorter acting ester blitz over the base is because I have a tendency to stay very
lean regardless of what I eat, so keeping an 'aggresive' approach to this bulk was
my plan.
My weight is 99kg at 5ft7 and last body-fat measurement was close to 6% on the low
side, Iplan to slowly increase the weight till the end of October breaking the
triple digits :D
I have stuck to eating my base diet everyday with cheats whenever my body tells me
it needs more and started my nutrition from a very lean base as my body fat is
still well under 10% and I continue to only slow build up "bloof" over time, I
don't use ai's at all.
My purpose for this cut is to see what I have gained during my growth phase, get my
body dry, lean and receptive before blowing up again next year with a solid rebound
on the Four Horsemen. I would love to compete in 2016. I am in no rush but that is
a goal of mine.
The question I have based on the above information is my cutting protocol if you
could provide some assistance?
I wanted to diet down and wanted your opinion on an approach? Granted I don't
expect you to lay out every minute detail. But my overall goal is to stick to old
school ways as much as possible. What I had in mind was using NPP, test prop,
winstrol orals, anadrol orals, mast prop & tren ace totalling around 2.5g.
Nandrolone as my base for fullness while dieting, slowly bringing test down and
pushing up mast and orals. Tren I wanted your opinion on, is it completely
necessary? Would NPP do the trick in terms of being the primary anabolic? OR could
I also push nandrolone down and increase tren equally?
I want to diet down old school and would the above mentioned cutting drugs suffice
in a 70s/80s era?
I don't want to shotgun myself with various stims/cutting drugs and end up like a
scrawny beach 'model' with high doses of multiple compounds and look like I have no
base... I want to come down to a lean % and look like the classics.
Granted I am no where near their level but I like the old school approach and would
like to stick to your advice as much as possible. Using diet and cardio to bring me
into condition and to be honest stick the classic hormones too. My goal is to not
hit the stage any time soon but to do a proper first lean-phase and rebound next
year to get bigger and build up over time.
You have taken the time to give us all a ton of info on growth stages and embracing
estro and the four horsemen and I am loving it but if you could provide some advice
on a lean/prep/cut such as mine sticking to the old school ways that would really
help me out.
Thank you again for your contribution on this board, gold thread!
The answer to your question is actually very uncomplicated, and I like that. In a
great way you answered your own question. I am just here to bring you peace with
your own confirmation and conclusion. What the best of the best in bodybuilding
have done over the years and continue to do very well is to stick to whats works.
No need to get complicated and over-think things. Somehow this notion that the
cutting compounds need to be part of your dieting phase. THEY DO NOT. In other
words what are the objective benefits to the fast versions and the list you
provided above. There are non with one exception. They reduce body water. I am not
concerned with water in the intermediate. All you should care about in this phase
is the retention of muscle and the removal of fat. The positives of holding a bit
more water equates to a better anabolic cellular environment anyway. It is only
when you are in striking distance where water will matter. This is when you can use
these cutting AAS to polish that physique up for that competition or photos. The
time frame of when to remove the long versions will differ from one person to
another. You will have to experiment with this.
So the simple answer is to continue on your same path of AAS selection that
CURRENTLY WORK FOR YOU, and just make the modifications to the diet and cardio side
of the equation. Yes, its is just that easy!!!!
At the moment I am also dieting hard on test cyp, deca, eq, and mast E. And I still
also rotate in dbol, anadrol into the mix occasionally. In the last month I
reintroduced winstrol orals again to test and see how it effects my blood sugars.
And I must say I was highly impressed. Have not used winstrol in a long time. Now
that I have finished winstrol, I recently added tren ace to test blood sugars.
Strangely, both the winstrol and Tren have my waking blood sugars at lower levels.
So at the moment it is cyp, deca, eq, mast E and tren Ace. Even with Tren Ace, my
diet must be SPOT on and VERY tight to continue with fat loss. It becomes
increasingly difficult once I'm in the 6% range, This is where I really have to
suffer to lose that last layer of fat. The other issue I face with the tren is the
immediate loss of volume which I did not get with winstrol. At the moment I can
only run 50mg of ace a day. Anymore then that and it becomes to difficult on the
mental side. So to compensate for the loss of volume I have to play with my test
levels and have adjusted it upwards.
I have said this before, no one said dieting was going to be easy. And If it was,
everyone would look like us....
DrX
* tumblr_mmap6wGOHb1ru5cg5o1_500.jpg (30.5 kB, 500x435 - viewed 820 times.)

you."
Diluted56
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 1543
GH15 South Africa

� Reply #483 on: June 04, 2014, 10:54:37 AM �
ReplyQuote
DrX thank you for continuing your posts and educating us on your life experiences,
sorry to hear at times it hasn't been the greatest of times but you are a true
testament to the bodybuilding way of life. I read through your thread again as I
always seem to find a gem or two I skipped over through the wealth of information.
I have a question for you and I would like to make it as short as possible for you,
if you wouldn't mind helping me out?
I love the 70s & 80s physiques and would love to have something like that for
myself someday and it is what I am working towards on a daily basis.
I plan to cut later this year, thinking November.
I have been bulking throughout this year moving the scale weight up gradually over
time.
Basic info
I have stayed consistent on my dose of EOD injections of test and deca for over 8
months. (600 - 800mg Test & 750 - 1g Deca), the reason for the mg variation is due
to eod pins so 4 pins one week and 3 pins the next. I rotate between tren ace
350mgs a week for 4 weeks and dbol at 50mg ed for 4 weeks over my test & deca base.
The ratio of my base to polishers is 5:1 (1800mg : 350mg). The reason for the
shorter acting ester blitz over the base is because I have a tendency to stay very
lean regardless of what I eat, so keeping an 'aggresive' approach to this bulk was
my plan.
My weight is 99kg at 5ft7 and last body-fat measurement was close to 6% on the low
side, Iplan to slowly increase the weight till the end of October breaking the
triple digits :D
I have stuck to eating my base diet everyday with cheats whenever my body tells me
it needs more and started my nutrition from a very lean base as my body fat is
still well under 10% and I continue to only slow build up "bloof" over time, I
don't use ai's at all.
My purpose for this cut is to see what I have gained during my growth phase, get my
body dry, lean and receptive before blowing up again next year with a solid rebound
on the Four Horsemen. I would love to compete in 2016. I am in no rush but that is
a goal of mine.
The question I have based on the above information is my cutting protocol if you
could provide some assistance?
I wanted to diet down and wanted your opinion on an approach? Granted I don't
expect you to lay out every minute detail. But my overall goal is to stick to old
school ways as much as possible. What I had in mind was using NPP, test prop,
winstrol orals, anadrol orals, mast prop & tren ace totalling around 2.5g.
Nandrolone as my base for fullness while dieting, slowly bringing test down and
pushing up mast and orals. Tren I wanted your opinion on, is it completely
necessary? Would NPP do the trick in terms of being the primary anabolic? OR could
I also push nandrolone down and increase tren equally?
I want to diet down old school and would the above mentioned cutting drugs suffice
in a 70s/80s era?
I don't want to shotgun myself with various stims/cutting drugs and end up like a
scrawny beach 'model' with high doses of multiple compounds and look like I have no
base... I want to come down to a lean % and look like the classics.
Granted I am no where near their level but I like the old school approach and would
like to stick to your advice as much as possible. Using diet and cardio to bring me
into condition and to be honest stick the classic hormones too. My goal is to not
hit the stage any time soon but to do a proper first lean-phase and rebound next
year to get bigger and build up over time.
You have taken the time to give us all a ton of info on growth stages and embracing
estro and the four horsemen and I am loving it but if you could provide some advice
on a lean/prep/cut such as mine sticking to the old school ways that would really
help me out.
Thank you again for your contribution on this board, gold thread!
My Log:
raider115
Junior
*
Posts: 18

� Reply #482 on: June 03, 2014, 07:01:06 PM �
ReplyQuote
Whoa....that is some scary stuff. I think more stories need to be told to
illustrate the power of all of these drugs. I think most people become complacent
or simply do not fully research a drug before using it. Thanks for the story Dr. X
DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #481 on: June 03, 2014, 01:35:22 PM �
ReplyQuote
Many of you have wondered why have I always been so very conservation when it comes
to both using T3 and stimulants. I personally have not needed the use of T3 or
stimulants of any kind in many years with the one exception of caffeine. I have
been able to diet down to extreme levels without the use and will continue to, as I
see no need for them personally as the job gets done just as easily without them.
T3, stimulants, AND I must include insulin will cause and have caused the most
acute or immediate life threatening events to both the educated and the most
liberal of bodybuilding users . And they will continue to do so. Some have publicly
come forth with near death experiences and MANY MANY others have kept their
experience quiet and or shared it discreetly with a few key members. I have
personally seen this. Let me be perfectly clear. Am I saying never to use any of
these advanced tools. No, BUT their use comes with extreme respect for dose and
quality. Purchasing T3 and other stimulants from underground labs where quality
control (DOSE) is unknown will cause death and has caused death.
For the long haul, I have always advocated use what you need. If it can be done
without it, drop it. Each and every compound you introduce to your system will
create increased adverse drug reactions, and complicate other drug to drug
interactions.
There is currently a critically important thread created in the Neverland section

which unfortunately cannot be accessed by everyone on this forum. Many of you may
never get to read what happens to key members in that section, but an example came
up that had me in a panic when I read it. My heart was in my throat!!!
This is why I advocate simplicity. I will re-post the key thread here and other
important responses by members I hold in high regard. It is a wake up call for
those who are lackadaisical with doses and compounds whose misuse will cause
death...
TheRevolver and other key members were kind enough to allow the post and answers
here:
"I found out first hand this week what T3 will do if not taken responsibly..:/
Late last week I decided to bump up my T3 intake to 125- 150 mcg a day to see what
it would do...Well Sunday night (last day I took T3) I begin having leg cramps (and
various cramps throughout my body) throughout the night where it was manageable
pain so I took it as dehyration. Nope, Monday night I woke up from a nap, got out
of bed walked to the bathroom and fell right on the bathroom hard floor. My left
leg just gave out like a twig. After that I couldn't get up off the floor for
almost 4 hours, ended up having to pee in water bottles my body was so weak. I
hadn't had water all night so I still, like an idiot thought it was dehydration.
Well I was able to finally stand up around early Tuesday morning (around 5 am),
started chugging gatorade and then thought I felt a lil better and went to sleep.
Well I woke up at 8 am and felt extremely weak to the point where I had to struggle
for 15 minutes just to get out of bed and then ended up falling on the floor. After
that, I was literally stuck on the floor on my side not being able to move. I
thought I was going to die but luckily my phone had fallen off my bed stand during
the night and I was barely able to reach it to call 911. It was really scary while
I was waiting like that, I started going in and out of consciousness and having
trouble breathing. It was like I was paralyzed and couldn't move anything. not even
my forearm.
The fire department showed up about half an hour later and had to break into my
back door, got me up, loaded me into an ambulance and onto the hospital. After a
blood test, the doctor said my potassium level was at a 1.6 mEq/Liter of blood
(normal should around 3.7-5 mEq/Liter) and dropping which was borderline fatal! All
because of the T3...He also that I was having arrhythmia (extremely fast heartbeat)
because of it. Basically ended up in the hospital for 2 days getting potassium
chloride pumped into me. Overall it was an extremely scary experience where I
really thought I was going to die.
Moral of the story is, again like it is always preached on this site; be careful
what you take and of course, do some thorough research on the product. As you can
tell, you can easily end up in the hospital or worse. I just thank God that my
phone was on the floor near where I fell and not on the bed stand or somewhere else
where I couldn't reach and not out of battery like it was at -10% because I don't
think I would have made it otherwise without calling 911."
Response by Guido:
Nobody should ever need 150mcg of T3. If you have legit T3, the most you need is
50mcg, maybe 75mcg. There is no reason to use 100mcg+. If you need to you either
have shitty T3, are training and eating like shit, or enjoy looking like shit
because legit T3 over 50mcg will have you flat as a pancake.
You overdosed on T3 bro and what occurred is known as Thyrotoxic periodic
paralysis. Very nasty but but easily treatable if you get to an emergency room
quick or recognize the systems and administer necessary compounds to treat it. You
are actually quite lucky only that occurred. A few more micrograms and you would of
probably been dead from a Thyroid Storm.
There is no need to look into potassium supplements when using T3. You just need a
proper diet and a multivitamin. You can avoid Thyrotoxic periodic paralysis by not
using fuck-huge and unnecessary dosages of T3.
I don't advocate potassium supplements because they can be extremely dangerous and
may people have ended up in the hospital due to taking them. You should only be
taking potassium supplements if specifically told to do so by a doctor.
Response by bigeyedfish:
This is one the most frightening posts I've ever seen on this board. Therevolver
was very close to death. And he knows it.
Everyone let that sink in for a moment. One or two things happen slightly
differently and he is dead. Because he wanted to be a little leaner.
There are some things in medicine where a small mistake can kill. Two of those
things are anything to so with insulin/glucose and the other is potassium. In the
hospital these are what's called high alert medications. Orders have to be read
back. One nurse has to show another nurse the dose before he/she administers it.
That's in a hospital were these people do it every day and still, these are high
risk medicines, because people make mistakes. Errors are not uncommon without a
second person checking.
I've posted before about some of the dangers of t3. Mostly about thyroid storm.
Which is 100% fatal if not treated in an icu setting. To make things worse, first
line treatment for the thyroid storm is a drug that blocks conversion of t4 to t3.
Obviously this won't do any good if the condition is due to taking t3.
This case was, as guido rightly said, thyrotoxic paralysis. Potassium shifts into
the cell, altering the potassium in the fluid around the cell alters conduction of
impulses along nerves. Nerves that tell muscles to fire. Also the nerves that go to
the heart.
Same potassium shift happens when insulin is active. The more insulin the more the
shift into the cell. If fact insulin does this so well it's one of the temporary
treatments for high potassium. (Lean knows about this too well from what I remember
of his ordeal.) it's temporary because when the insulin is no longer active the
potassium shifts back out. This is why joeyflex is always drinking orange juice
around his insulin.
These are the most powerful hormones in our body we are manipulating. Sometimes I
think attitudes are too cavalier.
Response by Sector:
As mentioned by a few who posted here, I went through a similar experience.
Hospitalized 3 times, cardiac arrest once. Unable to even lift my arm to reach my
phone that was 6 inches from my hand to call 911 on one occassion.
Not accusing you of this OP, but I have found there are typically other variables
in stories such as this. Tends to take more then 100-150mcg to cause this sort of
thing. Typically you couple T3 with Alcohol, eating disorders or very strict
dieting, stimulants etc and this is the end result.
I encourage others not to worry too much abot things like this but at the same time
be aware of the combinations you put in your body. Unlikely that you need to
supplement with potassium (Not that it will even do much, esp if the symptoms of
low potassium have already set in, at that point you need an IV.) if you have a
well rounded diet, limit alochol intake and dont go crazy on stimulants.
This may save a life or two, but use caution when it comes to these powerful
compounds, that includes insulin. Many of you have not seen or heard the life
threatening issues many here have been through with insulin use. Just remember, the
grim reaper has ALSO knocked at deaths door with insulin use too....
DrX
you."
Bigwavesurfer
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� Reply #480 on: June 02, 2014, 02:37:20 PM �
ReplyQuote
Yes I was curious about the fats with slin use, that's why I asked. I've always
been taught it's a no no. I heard some people say it's ok to use an mct like
coconut oil or omega 3 eggs because it's a healthy fat. I dunno this still scares
me as I've never heard a pro do any of that with slin and I know a few personally.
I was told to hammer slin throughout the day and have your fats at night when the
slin window isn't open. Not saying the people I know know everything or saying
you're wrong. Just trying to get a good discussion going on this. Could you
elaborate a little more when this is and isn't ok to do? Thanks again for all the
great info.
DrX
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� Reply #479 on: June 01, 2014, 02:40:23 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Bigwavesurfer on May 30, 2014, 10:11:06 PM
DrX you eating this with insulin use?
Yes even as I am dieting I will use insulin, and I will use this twice a day to my
advantage. Once in the morning and the other one hour post training. Approximately
1600-1700Kcal for 6 days is needed for fat loss to occur. And as a type2 my body
responds a bit different to carbs. The amounts of insulin use will vary based on
both my morning reading and then a post cardio reading before I eat. I will adjust
amounts based on that. That lower calorie breakfast dieting meal posted above will
require 5grams of carbs per IU. But that changes depending on the day and body part
trained. For example, even though I am dieting and I do my quads on Sundays, and it
also happens to be a whole re-feed day. So my requirements go up drastically, as I
will need 11grams of carbs spaced out over 3-4 hours for every IU of insulin
required on that specific day.
The second thing you may have noticed is that there is fat in my breakfast along
with insulin. We have been told over and over this is a no no. I can agree and
disagree with all the points as to why fats should be limited during slin intake. I
have been dieting down with fats mixed in especially for the breakfast meal mainly
as a repair mechanism. The body under stress will scavenge what it needs from other
tissues going back and forth between reserves. Fats are the key to cell structure
which also needs to be replenished and repaired. As long as I am in a calorie
deficit, I WILL LOSE BODY FAT and am not worried about fat mass accumulation.
DrX
you."
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� Reply #478 on: June 01, 2014, 02:36:26 AM �
ReplyQuote
Defiantly worth a read again, the life situations are just classic and hit true.
I am almost the same age as you Drx and recently got back into lifting 27 months
ago.. its been a struggle and alot of hardships. Almost a full time job compared to
my youth in effort and consistency.
I dont have much mass any more, and defiantly dont want to be a mass monster at our
age. I kinda do wanna " grow lean, with patience's" and for me looking good year
round is important, maybe a mid life crisis thing haha. I want a physique
look/beach body 5'10 200lbs 6-8%
I am running 800eq, 200mast, 600 tren and 600 test. since i finished my diet 15
days ago i have only achieved 2.3kg weight gain ( but i only started adding test
from 200 to 600 for 1.5 weeks, so it hasnt reached peak plasma levels). wich is
great coming from 2200kcals to 3500-4000kcals basically replacing water back into
the muscle. for the look im going for, i know tren is great but i have been
thinking ( too much ) about replacing the tren for 600mg deca to help with more
fullness. I am worried about getting wet and staying dry and not bloated or bloofy
is my goal and probaly have to cut calories as low as 3200 if i take tren out. Yes
its not the idea blueprint for growth but with age being a big factor and heart
stress of blowing up and cutting. I like to think with a bunch of small things done
right i can grow into shape, even if its slow and similar to watching paint Dry.
As you have said 23.5 times in this thread compound experience is different for
everyone, In your experience, and along the way opinion on AAS , can you help me
look at some pros and cons of trying to keep a fitness look whilst removing tren
and adding deca. ( keep in mind i dont use orals.) and again this would be the
other components 800eq, 200mast, 600 Deca and 600 test
Thanks so much, and really appreciate your time
1 get shreddedish.
GDF-8
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� Reply #477 on: May 31, 2014, 11:22:54 PM �
ReplyQuote
Got pointed to this yesterday and got to page 7 last night , reading and re reading
every post! some solid info from a guy lifting for 20 years. look forward to going
through the other 9 pages! Very educational , no bullshit approach up to what i
read so far, and epic long posts.
Thanks for your time invested into this thread over the years.
1 get shreddedish.
AdonisBelt
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� Reply #476 on: May 31, 2014, 03:23:33 AM �
ReplyQuote
Any more recipes you have uo your sleeve?
I love cold oatmeal and cooking it ahead of time makes total sense.
Good stuff.
Do you even GH15?
Bigwavesurfer
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� Reply #475 on: May 30, 2014, 10:11:06 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX you eating this with insulin use?
DrX
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� Reply #474 on: May 30, 2014, 10:01:05 PM �
ReplyQuote
In my opinion, two of the most important meals of the day for a serious
bodybuilders is breakfast and the post workout meal. It is the times where the body
needs the most densely concentrated nutrients and uses them very efficiently. I
would like to share my breakfast with you, which has been a staple for over a
decade. And for some odd reason, I have never grown tired of it. I love it every
morning and look forward to it. Not only does it taste amazing, but it is simple to
make and contains all the macro and micro nutrients to get the day started.
Depending on whether I am dieting or growing, this breakfast always gets the job
done.
Ingredients Required:
Rolled Oats or regular (old fashioned)
water
salt
pepper
cinnamon
whole eggs
Frozen berries/cherries/strawberry's (any fruit)
Banana
Chocolate whey isolate protein powder (flavor of your choice)
Fiber One cereal (optional for more fiber)
Sweeteners (equal, splenda)
Utensils:
1) medium saucepan.
Steps:
Stir in heaping 1/2 cup dry rolled oats to 2.5 cups of cold water over medium-low
heat.
Bring oats to a simmer, stirring the starch frequently back into the mix. Once the
oats begin to soften and the liquid thickens, you can add any flavorings you are
using (salt, pepper, cinnamon etc.) Once the oats have simmered and stirred to your
desired texture and consistency, directly add in the whole eggs into the mix. There
is no reason to use another cooking vesicle when I can get it done with one. The
amounts of eggs I use depends on my phases. One to three eggs is the norm. Stir the
eggs directly into the oatmeal to cook through. The mixture once done will now look
like a creamy custard if done right.
Let the mixture cool a bit then pour into your eating bowl. Once in the bowl, add
your protein powder. Chocolate flavor is my personal choice. Now I make this meal
the previous night and put it in the refrigerator to be eaten the following
morning. I LOVE IT COLD. When I wake up and go through my routines I will add my
frozen berries/fruit and banana into the cold mix to allow them to defrost. It
takes about an hour. By that time I am also done with cardio and showering. If your
like it hot make it in the morning. I just don't have time. The rest of my meals
which have also been prepared the night before will be taken with me for the day...
The sweeteners and fiber One are options. I like them both. When I am in full
growth mode I will even add in one tablespoon of all natural peanut butter on top
of three eggs. As I begin to diet down the serving of oats stays the same. I only
modify the amounts of eggs I use and begin to taper down on the fruits. Right now
this meal only contains the oats, one egg and the protein powder.
BON APPITIT
DrX
you."
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� Reply #473 on: May 28, 2014, 04:43:14 AM �
ReplyQuote
Thanks for the post DrX. Great info
DrX
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� Reply #472 on: May 28, 2014, 02:46:40 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Bigwavesurfer on May 08, 2014, 05:15:13 AM
Hey DrX. I wanted to post a couple questions that maybe you can answer.
1) Why do you prefer R over Log?
2) Do you use any vitamins like chromium, cinnamon, biotin, etc to aid in glucose?
If so how much and when?
3) What is a low, good, and high glucose reading approximately? If low or high
what should one do to compensate?
I'd appreciate it and I'm sure other members will too. Not that much info out
there on this stuff. I've been doing a lot of research in regards to glucose and
insulin levels from Poliquin. But he doesn't go into the use of slin with such so
thats why I'm curious what someone with your knowledge and experience would
recommend. Thanks brother.
The reason I prefer R over Log or N has to do with timing. I do not like the
shorter spikes (LOG) and I DO NOT like long acting slin in my body at ALL times
either. I can't say for sure, but my sneaky suspicions are that the long versions
are what cause extreme resistance over time. The critical time in which R remains
active covers all three parts of the training phases. If timed properly, it is
alive for the beginning heavy compound movements, and the stretch, or contracted
movements during the second half. It is also still active during the post window of
recovery. Piston style is the cornerstone of my training methodology. The longer
the time and the (increasing) weight remains in motion the greater the structural
damage. Especially at the tail 2/3rds end of the routine where most start to lose
endurance . This is where R is superior as it keeps glycogen stores full during
this critical tail end. The greater the structural damage, the greater the muscle
growth.
Let me also cover a few of the basics many may not be aware of that comes to the
direct relationship between growth and energy reserves. We can put aside all the
complicated theories about how insulin works and boil it down to a link between
energy and mass. How the body creates muscle mass and controls its stored energy
has a link to the survival of our species. There are steps that need to be in place
before muscle can be restored and or created. Energy reserves and storage in both
the liver and muscle is the first biological step before repair and growth of
muscle tissue can occur. Think about it this way. If the body allowed muscle mass
to grow without its minimum corresponding energy reserves to move it, then the
species dies. The increasing weight would just collapse upon itself. It is a built
in check and balance. This is why insulin is so powerful. It removes the first
critical hurdle for growth, energy stores are always topped off and replaced in
both the liver and muscle tissue.
I do not use any vitamins to aid in glucose. Why, they don't work. I eat the
corresponding foods that give me the nutrients required for insulin to work the
best. The timed use of fruit, (apple and banana) , pre-workout for fructose, and
then a simple carb (Gatorade powder), with a 1/4 scoop of whey isolate during the
workout and sipped home. Post workout, non fat yogurt, and another scoop of whey
isolate and honey. One hour later while the R is still active my main meal of low
fat ground beef, vegs, rice and a baked potato.
While we are on the subject of R, I would like tackle another misunderstanding of

what many keep referring to is a double peek. There is NO double peak with R.
Please look at the chart below. R is not re-released in a pulse fashion causing a
second spike. The reason for this is a draw down in glucose from the blood into
muscles and the corresponding nervous tissue as sensitivity to insulin is at its
highest. This is also when R hits the apex for many.
Parts of the answer for question 3 have been answered on previous threads, and I
will go into details on a later day. Unfortunately, specifics to this question in
the wrong uneducated hands could get someone into trouble.
DrX
* insulinprofile3.gif (62.29 kB, 400x598 - viewed 510 times.)

you."
draaz
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� Reply #471 on: May 24, 2014, 03:42:16 PM �
ReplyQuote
Hey man thanks for keepin if real for me. That's not a perspective I hear alot but
I understand. I take it ill slim down and look more "normal" for when I need to do
the job interview process . We love being big and freaky and have people give that
" what in the actual fuk " look at you lol. But it comes with a price I guess .
DrX
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� Reply #470 on: May 24, 2014, 01:45:37 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: draaz on May 18, 2014, 02:37:34 AM
How have you been able to handle/balance the AAS Globalge while at the same time
holding up a good job and being successful occupationally in whatever you do?
business... relationships...opportunities...I ask because I "look" like I take
steroids and so do you, obviously. With this comes automatic judgement from others,
you know how people are. Iv'e often wondered if this lifestyle will hold me back
form opportunities, making the most money that I can, because of the general mental
toll it can have at times, and selfishness that it often requires and ends up
being, and then general stigma that is attached with our lifestyle.
You seem to be a successful, level headed, and can balance these issues which Is
why I am bringing this up. It seems relevant to this board and is certainly
relevant to my life and where I'm at currently. My family is always in negative
support of this lifestyle, always telling me its pointless, and will hold me back,
gets you nowhere etc.. I don't need support or anything I just wonder sometimes if
they are right..
Still I grind out this lifestyle, its a part of me.. I'd love to prove them all
wrong
I'd love for you to prove them ALL wrong too, but we must face some true realities
about how this world works. I like to keeps things simple, real and honest. First,
we must admit there is a stigma attached to who we are. There were days when all
bodybuilders preached the natural lie. For the most part the public believed this
mantra. Today however, everyone knows bodybuilders are not natural. We can't hide
that fact anymore. It is out in the open. Along with that stigma comes character
traits most associate with our lifestyle including the negative ones you brought
up.
The answer also depends on your specific education and the job or career associated
with your future. My best friend who was my first training partner is a great
example. As I mentioned he was tremendously gifted as both a bodybuilding, but also
as an intellect. He is one smart cookie. He was able to get his dream job in Wall
Street at a large financial bank. But before he interviewed with the banks he was
intuitive enough to slim down and present himself in a way that did not hurt his
opportunities. Once he was hired and proved himself, he moved quickly up the ranks.
Once he felt stable and secure being able to proof himself intellectually rather
then stereotyped physically, he put back on some relative size. He is now Vice
President of the west coast branch as a wealth money manager. A few months ago over
dinner my friend brought up an interesting job interview he had when he was looking
to hire two interns.
On the day of the interviews, one of his best potential candidates on PAPER was
sitting in the waiting room and had removed his dress jacket to get comfortable.
When my friend walked into the waiting room to call him privately to the conference
room for the one on one interview he noticed tattoos peeking out on the wrists and
upper neck. He went through the interview process, but immediately knew regardless
of how qualified he was he could not hire the candidate.
Yes, he did not get the job!!!!
Remember in that world his intern represents the firm. His job is to convince
skeptical, conservative clients to hand over hard earned money for investment
purposes. How much trust will a new potential client have if his intern adviser is
covered in tattoos. There is a big social part to his business model. He is NOT
now or ever willing to make that bet.
So truthfully YES, your parents are correct, they are worried that all your
discipline, hard work and educational sacrifices will be determined by the person
sitting across the interview table from you. They do not know you from any other
candidate and as such you will be stereotyped.
I'll give you another important example that happens everyday. Say in a field of 10
top potential hires to choose from your new firm is also going to provide you with
health insurance. And most do not understand how costly insurance is to not only
big business but to small business in covering their employees. It is much more
costly then you think especially for the unhealthy employee!!!!!! Out of the ten or
so in the interview process they notice you are VERY different then the rest. The
extreme size, sweating and heavy breathing due to the excessive muscle mass you
carry. That additional cost of insuring you over the other normal "healthy"
candidates will also a factor HEAVY into their consideration.
There are too many qualified candidates in this zero growth economy to choose from,
and if you think your appearance does not come into play, you are incorrect. This
is the reality, your physical appearance will either hurt you or help.
So how do we make this a win-win. The physique during the interview process needs
to be lean and tight. Present a healthy, vibrant you. I would suggest if not
already lean, you would need to come down into the 6% body fat range. This sleek
"beautiful" look actually may give you an advantage over others, as it would
signify health. An attractive person ALWAYS has the advantage. That is a look you
want.
You will have plenty of time to grow back, after you have secured the job.
Sacrifices will be needed to be made initially as that job will bring the financial
security and funds to feed the bodybuilding lifestyle....
DrX
you."
lorja
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� Reply #469 on: May 22, 2014, 04:05:51 PM �
ReplyQuote
Absolutely fantastic thread. So much knowledge here
Adding some dry mass
300mg prop
300mg mast prop
60mg epi ED
Rubbish
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� Reply #468 on: May 21, 2014, 07:30:39 PM �
ReplyQuote
I spent all my lunch breaks these last couple of days going through this thread and
just finished it today. Great informative thread DrX! I really like the detail of
your posts and how you take the time to reply to the questions you get asked. It
shows you are real genuine person. I also really like that you emphasize the
importance of vegetables and healthy eating in the beginning of this thread! I
think too often hormones are used as an excuse to pig out on junk foods.
Ultimately I hope you are doing fine and everything is ok healthwise.
Keep us updated doc :).
gh15 approved
Diluted56
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� Reply #467 on: May 21, 2014, 07:00:07 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: DrX on May 21, 2014, 02:08:32 AM
Quote from: B_seem on May 07, 2014, 05:18:17 PM
Dr. X I'm glad you are doing well and you have a great thread.
I was hoping you would touch on how E2 and Testosterone effect weight loss. You
touched on this a bit not to long ago but I was hoping when you had a chance you
could go more in depth. You made Avery could point that all the top dogs run test
high thru prep even until the show. Looking forward to your response.
B_seem, you noticed one of the MAJOR crosscurrents confusing many members here at
GH15 and I can understand why. Some members advocate low test to control estrogen,
and other such as myself recommend higher test amounts. What is the role of
testosterone, estrogen and diet. How do then influence each other. Do they work
differently in a calorie rich vs a low calorie, higher stress environment. Does low
test work better then high test at removing body fat?
So let us first start with this link. And it is an important one.
Once you have gone through its many pages, what do you notice is the common
denominator for all the different cycles you see. And after you have finished
reading my answer, go back through it one more time. And yes to clarify, in my
opinion, some cycles are fake and made up.
There is a CONSTANT and CONTINUAL run of high amount of test through most or all
bodybuilding competitors regimes. This high base is run up all the way until the
last few weeks. The only changes to test are the esters. Faster ones are brought in
closer to show time. Why, and what does it have to do with estrogen?
Both muscle and fat tissue metabolize free estrogen, estrone and estradiol. Through
the aromatase enzyme, estrogen is actually produced in BOTH your fat and muscle
cells via testosterone. That conversion to estrogen could happen in either your fat
cells or muscle cells which plays a big role in the production of good or bad
estrogen metabolites. This is the reason we pound the table to grow from a lean
stage. The leaner the better. We want more E2 produced via muscle tissue vs fat.
Every single hormone plays an ever important role all by itself and yet the
production of each subsequent specific hormone is dependent on the other hormones.
I mentioned in an earlier thread estrogen, specifically estradiol (E2), is probably

a more effective fat loss aid than is testosterone. But with one very important
caveat. An increase in estradiol must be accompanied by an equal or larger increase
in testosterone if we are reap the positive effects on both fat loss and muscle
retention. Testosterone increases IGF-1, while estradiol prolongs the half-life and
effect of the hormone by increasing IGFBP-3 and IGF1-receptor density.
One key to understand, estrogen is not present to promote skeletal muscle

hypertrophy, but rather to prevent atrophy especially in calorie restricted
environments. Also excessive estrogen can and will work against you in different
ways especially in a calorie surplus environment with high body fat levels. In a
second mechanism estradiol prevent muscle loss, once again only in the presence of
test by blocking glucocorticoid receptors protecting against the effects of
cortisol.
Estrogen also plays another role in the promotion of an anabolic state by affecting
glucose utilization in muscle tissue. This occurs via an altering of the level of
available glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase, an enzyme directly tied to the use of
glucose for muscle tissue growth and recuperation. More specifically, G6PD is a
vital part of the pentose phosphate pathway, which is integral in determining the
rate nucleic acids and lipids are to be synthesized in cells for tissue repair.
During the period of regeneration after skeletal muscle damage levels of G6PD are
shown to rise dramatically, which is believed to represent a mechanism for the body
to enhance recovery when needed. Estrogen is directly tied to the level of G6PD
that is to be made available to cells in this recovery window.
Besides muscle tissue, estrogen also stabilizes muscle membranes and diminishes
sarcolemmal disruption. In other words estrogen acts to reduce exercise-induced
muscle damage and inflammatory responses by acting as both as an strong antioxidant
against exercise-induced membrane phospholipid peroxidation and also acts as a
cholesterol-like influence on membrane fluidity and stability.
So what is the bottom line. Higher test levels produce E2 which helps the
bodybuilder remain fuller and RETAIN more structural tissue especially when
dieting. E2 also keeps the muscle's structural membrane intact, which keeps the
cells better hydrated and anabolic. And as you can see it also plays a big role in
muscle energy recovery too.
So now that we know this, I will ask these few questions. What is your goal when
dieting? Further more, what is the goal of those giving advise on low test while
dieting. They may be VERY different. Those running lower test FIRST PRIORITY is
not the maximum retention of muscle and strength, but the extreme removal of body
fat. When I diet down, my FIRST AND PRIMARY goal is muscle retention, followed by
fat loss. For others it may be backwards. What most forget, and I'll say it again,
those bodybuilders from the past who ran low test, made up the loss of estrogen
with running high aromatizing orals. Remember that!!!!! Its has been said over and
over again, running 100mg plus a day of Dbol in the 70's was the norm for the top
echelon. And that is just the orals......
You may have also importantly noticed in the Pro's steroid cycle link, deca and eq,
were also run concurrently, not the tren/mast combination, most are use to hearing
about in final 12 or so weeks leading into a show. This goes completely against
what many are preaching here. Again, why run deca as far into competition mode as
possible. We will once again revisit the top goal of the competitor, the retention
of lean tissue during calorie restriction mode.
We can take a history lesson as to why deca is used in this phase. The main reason
for Nandrolone?s widespread use and popularity is owed in large part to the fact
that it was essentially the second officially created and marketed anabolic steroid
to ever be made (1957) after dianabol (1955). NPP was created first, but due to the
short half live and too frequent of injections for patients, deca the longer
version was brought to market. Nandrolone Decanoate, saw a vast and wide range of
medical uses ranging from the promotion of weight and lean mass in patients with
wasting diseases to the treatment of burn victims, geriatric patients, anemia, and
even for the treatment of child growth and development disorders. It is extremely
effective and safe bringing up the lean body-weight of patients but is also has
benefits for their impaired immune systems too.
Think about it this way, say you have a patient with severe burns whose metabolic
and calorie needs are not only through the roof, but at the same time they are
unable to eat. Calories consumption is completely impaired and the body is eating
itself alive. How do you stabilize the body-weight without adding additional stress
to an already compromised and failing body systems (heart, liver and kidneys). Yes,
this is what deca was designed for. For those of you with a general understanding
of this situation, do you think you could put the same patient on tren? What would
be the outcome of that same deathly ill patient on tren? Even some of the latest
HIV studies show deca therapy, even in the absence of an exercise program in
borderline hypo-gonadal men caused substantial nitrogen retention compared with
placebo, similar in extent to the nitrogen retention previously achieved with GH.
So deca is ALSO a POWERFUL anti-catabolic especially when calories are restricted.

Furthermore, the second reason deca is run as far into prep as possible is the
fluid it brings into the joints during this critical stage. Remember the astronaut
example, where regardless of hormones, vitamins, and minerals provided, bone mass
diminishes as the loads lighten in space due to zero gravity. The same premise
works here too. If your joints hurt and you are now moving lighter weight due to
the pain, the body WILL also make adjustments to lean tissue reserves. You want the
same loads placed on the system for as long as possible. Deca makes this
possible!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will leave you with this thought. Imagine you have a very dirty car full of mud
and dirt. You have soap, water, towels and wax to clean detail the paint. Why could
you not just leave out the soap and water out and just wax the car straight? The
car in the end would look the same. Why yes, waxing a dirty car would clean the car
but damage the paint. You would want the surface to be clean FIRST prior to the
addition of wax. Many bodybuilders, including myself consider tren, halo, winstrol
the wax, and only use it when they are "clean" or devoid of fat to prevent
additional stress and damage it creates. They are used as a final tool to bring out
those extreme details, like the wax.
Test and deca are the dieting lifeblood, just like the soap and water is to that
dirty "fat" car......
DrX
Thank you for this!!!

My Log:
DrX
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� Reply #466 on: May 21, 2014, 02:08:32 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: B_seem on May 07, 2014, 05:18:17 PM
B_seem, you noticed one of the MAJOR crosscurrents confusing many members here at
GH15 and I can understand why. Some members advocate low test to control estrogen,
and other such as myself recommend higher test amounts. What is the role of
testosterone, estrogen and diet. How do then influence each other. Do they work
differently in a calorie rich vs a low calorie, higher stress environment. Does low
test work better then high test at removing body fat?
So let us first start with this link. And it is an important one.
Once you have gone through its many pages, what do you notice is the common
denominator for all the different cycles you see. And after you have finished
reading my answer, go back through it one more time. And yes to clarify, in my
opinion, some cycles are fake and made up.
There is a CONSTANT and CONTINUAL run of high amount of test through most or all
bodybuilding competitors regimes. This high base is run up all the way until the
last few weeks. The only changes to test are the esters. Faster ones are brought in
closer to show time. Why, and what does it have to do with estrogen?
Both muscle and fat tissue metabolize free estrogen, estrone and estradiol. Through
the aromatase enzyme, estrogen is actually produced in BOTH your fat and muscle
cells via testosterone. That conversion to estrogen could happen in either your fat
cells or muscle cells which plays a big role in the production of good or bad
estrogen metabolites. This is the reason we pound the table to grow from a lean
stage. The leaner the better. We want more E2 produced via muscle tissue vs fat.
Every single hormone plays an ever important role all by itself and yet the
production of each subsequent specific hormone is dependent on the other hormones.
I mentioned in an earlier thread estrogen, specifically estradiol (E2), is probably

a more effective fat loss aid than is testosterone. But with one very important
caveat. An increase in estradiol must be accompanied by an equal or larger increase
in testosterone if we are reap the positive effects on both fat loss and muscle
retention. Testosterone increases IGF-1, while estradiol prolongs the half-life and
effect of the hormone by increasing IGFBP-3 and IGF1-receptor density.
One key to understand, estrogen is not present to promote skeletal muscle

hypertrophy, but rather to prevent atrophy especially in calorie restricted
environments. Also excessive estrogen can and will work against you in different
ways especially in a calorie surplus environment with high body fat levels. In a
second mechanism estradiol prevent muscle loss, once again only in the presence of
test by blocking glucocorticoid receptors protecting against the effects of
cortisol.
Estrogen also plays another role in the promotion of an anabolic state by affecting
glucose utilization in muscle tissue. This occurs via an altering of the level of
available glucose 6-phosphate dehydrogenase, an enzyme directly tied to the use of
glucose for muscle tissue growth and recuperation. More specifically, G6PD is a
vital part of the pentose phosphate pathway, which is integral in determining the
rate nucleic acids and lipids are to be synthesized in cells for tissue repair.
During the period of regeneration after skeletal muscle damage levels of G6PD are
shown to rise dramatically, which is believed to represent a mechanism for the body
to enhance recovery when needed. Estrogen is directly tied to the level of G6PD
that is to be made available to cells in this recovery window.
Besides muscle tissue, estrogen also stabilizes muscle membranes and diminishes
sarcolemmal disruption. In other words estrogen acts to reduce exercise-induced
muscle damage and inflammatory responses by acting as both as an strong antioxidant
against exercise-induced membrane phospholipid peroxidation and also acts as a
cholesterol-like influence on membrane fluidity and stability.
So what is the bottom line. Higher test levels produce E2 which helps the
bodybuilder remain fuller and RETAIN more structural tissue especially when
dieting. E2 also keeps the muscle's structural membrane intact, which keeps the
cells better hydrated and anabolic. And as you can see it also plays a big role in
muscle energy recovery too.
So now that we know this, I will ask these few questions. What is your goal when
dieting? Further more, what is the goal of those giving advise on low test while
dieting. They may be VERY different. Those running lower test FIRST PRIORITY is
not the maximum retention of muscle and strength, but the extreme removal of body
fat. When I diet down, my FIRST AND PRIMARY goal is muscle retention, followed by
fat loss. For others it may be backwards. What most forget, and I'll say it again,
those bodybuilders from the past who ran low test, made up the loss of estrogen
with running high aromatizing orals. Remember that!!!!! Its has been said over and
over again, running 100mg plus a day of Dbol in the 70's was the norm for the top
echelon. And that is just the orals......
You may have also importantly noticed in the Pro's steroid cycle link, deca and eq,
were also run concurrently, not the tren/mast combination, most are use to hearing
about in final 12 or so weeks leading into a show. This goes completely against
what many are preaching here. Again, why run deca as far into competition mode as
possible. We will once again revisit the top goal of the competitor, the retention
of lean tissue during calorie restriction mode.
We can take a history lesson as to why deca is used in this phase. The main reason
for Nandrolone?s widespread use and popularity is owed in large part to the fact
that it was essentially the second officially created and marketed anabolic steroid
to ever be made (1957) after dianabol (1955). NPP was created first, but due to the
short half live and too frequent of injections for patients, deca the longer
version was brought to market. Nandrolone Decanoate, saw a vast and wide range of
medical uses ranging from the promotion of weight and lean mass in patients with
wasting diseases to the treatment of burn victims, geriatric patients, anemia, and
even for the treatment of child growth and development disorders. It is extremely
effective and safe bringing up the lean body-weight of patients but is also has
benefits for their impaired immune systems too.
Think about it this way, say you have a patient with severe burns whose metabolic
and calorie needs are not only through the roof, but at the same time they are
unable to eat. Calorie consumption is completely impaired and the body begins to
eat itself alive. How do you stabilize the body-weight without adding additional
stress to an already compromised and failing body systems (heart, liver and
kidneys). Yes, this is what deca was designed for. For those of you with a general
understanding of this situation, do you think you could put the same patient on
tren? What would be the outcome of that same deathly ill patient on tren? Even some
of the latest HIV studies show deca therapy, even in the absence of an exercise
program in borderline hypo-gonadal men caused substantial nitrogen retention
compared with placebo, similar in extent to the nitrogen retention previously
achieved with GH.
So deca is ALSO a POWERFUL anti-catabolic especially when calories are restricted.

Furthermore, the second reason deca is run as far into prep as possible is the
fluid it brings into the joints during this critical stage. Remember the astronaut
example, where regardless of hormones, vitamins, and minerals provided, bone mass
diminishes as the loads lighten in space due to zero gravity. The same premise
works here too. If your joints hurt and you are now moving lighter weight due to
the pain, the body WILL also make adjustments to lean tissue reserves. You want the
same loads placed on the system for as long as possible. Deca makes this
possible!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will leave you with this thought. Imagine you have a very dirty car full of mud
and dirt. You have soap, water, towels and wax to clean detail the paint. Why could
you not just leave out the soap and water out and just wax the car straight? The
car in the end would look the same. Why yes, waxing a dirty car would clean the car
but damage the paint. You would want the surface to be clean FIRST prior to the
addition of wax. Many bodybuilders, including myself consider tren, halo, winstrol
the wax, and only use it when they are "clean" or devoid of fat to prevent
additional stress and damage it creates. They are used as a final tool to bring out
those extreme details, like the wax.
Test and deca are the dieting lifeblood, just like the soap and water is to that
dirty "fat" car......
DrX
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draaz
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� Reply #465 on: May 18, 2014, 02:37:34 AM �
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How have you been able to handle/balance the AAS Globalge while at the same time
holding up a good job and being successful occupationally in whatever you do?
business... relationships...opportunities...I ask because I "look" like I take
steroids and so do you, obviously. With this comes automatic judgement from others,
you know how people are. Iv'e often wondered if this lifestyle will hold me back
form opportunities, making the most money that I can, because of the general mental
toll it can have at times, and selfishness that it often requires and ends up
being, and then general stigma that is attached with our lifestyle.
You seem to be a successful, level headed, and can balance these issues which Is
why I am bringing this up. It seems relevant to this board and is certainly
relevant to my life and where I'm at currently. My family is always in negative
support of this lifestyle, always telling me its pointless, and will hold me back,
gets you nowhere etc.. I don't need support or anything I just wonder sometimes if
they are right..
Still I grind out this lifestyle, its a part of me.. I'd love to prove them all
wrong

Mister14
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� Reply #464 on: May 17, 2014, 02:33:40 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: DrX on May 15, 2014, 10:03:49 PM
Quote from: bigeyedfish on May 14, 2014, 07:30:28 PM
Quote from: TRT on May 14, 2014, 06:04:06 PM
Great information here Dr. What kind of metformin dosage would you recommend for
someone who is somewhat insulin resistant or pre-diabetic? I'm testing at 90-110 in
the morning fasted and was going to start 1000mg of Sustained release metformin ED
in the morning. Thoughts?
I'm not DrX, but that's a reasonable dose. The sustained release is to be used PM,
before bed, once a day. I wouldn't go over 2000mg.
I will add to Bigeyedfish's great answer. But before I do, I have to make some
assumptions as we don?t have any background information which would help target a
better answer. My assumptions are you are also on GH too. So I will start with
that. All you may need to do first and foremost if on GH is simply come off for a
few months and let the body naturally reset the resistance. Metformin may not even
be needed. You will actually hope to see you blood glucose start to drop after a
few weeks at most once GH clears. If not concurrently on GH and have blood sugars
in your range and that are not dropping, then Metformin would help. I would suggest
the smallest amounts at first, 500mg with the morning breakfast, and 500mg at night
with your last meal. See how you respond to that. If your blood glucose was
creeping up to the 150+ range, first and foremost you would need the help of a
doctor. He then would more then likely prescribe much higher starting amounts 2000-
3000mg day. Your doctor would also have other options available for you other then
metformin, including other oral called glipizide.
Also in the first explanation of how Metformin works, I did not address an issue
that may come into play for those who want to use metformin and slin together.
These two can cause very wide swings in blood glucose depending on doses. As I have
explained, one action of metformin is to block the absorption of sugars into the
blood stream after meals. This is critical to understand!!! The incorrect
assumptions were that metformin was driving more glucose into cells causing
hypoglycemia, when in reality metformin actually causes less sugars in the blood to
be available for slin to work with. Tread carefully when both are used together.
DrX
excellent. I always thought the idea of both together was a bit "much" or even
counterproductive. Timing is important enough with slin, why make it more
complicated? Thanks X.
warriorofzion
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� Reply #463 on: May 16, 2014, 02:38:39 PM �
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Hey DRx you look great I am an older guy so it goes to show the classic gear for
classice physique, And enjoy that new baby
My daughter has her senior prom tonight,college in the fall and it feels like
yesterday that i brought her home, makes me sad
trenmafia
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� Reply #462 on: May 16, 2014, 05:41:23 AM �
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Great info drx as always...Thanks for sharing..On metformin i have a very close
endo very open guy and he explains me everything and it goes exactly as you
describe it,i mean the misinformation about this compound is big on
forums,especially the statement that it will increase insulin secretion while in
fact indirectly will do the opposite...As far as healthy indiividuals i wouldn't
use it to loose weight..people rely too much on drugs these days..just keep an eye
on overall carb consumption,timing etch...

� Reply #461 on: May 16, 2014, 05:10:15 AM �
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DrX. Have you ever tried running Metformin to cut? I heard this works wonders.
Truth?
DrX
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� Reply #460 on: May 15, 2014, 10:03:49 PM �
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I will add to Bigeyedfish's great answer. But before I do, I have to make some
assumptions as we don?t have any background information which would help target a
better answer. My assumptions are you are also on GH too. So I will start with
that. All you may need to do first and foremost if on GH is simply come off for a
few months and let the body naturally reset the resistance. Metformin may not even
be needed. You will actually hope to see you blood glucose start to drop after a
few weeks at most once GH clears. If not concurrently on GH and have blood sugars
in your range and that are not dropping, then Metformin would help. I would suggest
the smallest amounts at first, 500mg with the morning breakfast, and 500mg at night
with your last meal. See how you respond to that. If your blood glucose was
creeping up to the 150+ range, I would highly recommend the help of a doctor. He
then would more then likely prescribe much higher starting amounts 2000-3000mg day.
Your doctor would also have other options available for you other then metformin,
including other oral called glipizide.
Also in the first explanation of how Metformin works, I did not address an issue
that may come into play for those who want to use metformin and slin together.
These two can cause very wide swings in blood glucose depending on doses. As I have
explained, one action of metformin is to block the absorption of sugars into the
blood stream after meals. This is critical to understand!!! The incorrect
assumptions were that metformin was driving more glucose into cells causing
hypoglycemia, when in reality metformin actually causes less sugars in the blood to
be available for slin to work with. Tread carefully when both are used together.
DrX
you."
Boarding
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� Reply #459 on: May 15, 2014, 06:57:15 AM �
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Quote from: TTT_ToTheTop on May 15, 2014, 05:32:17 AM
DrX, would you like to talk about shoulder and arms training. My chest geneticaly
is easy to develop part for me but shoulder- thats where it get tricky.
A definite bump to this.
Big up to Dr X for this goldmine of a thread, learning and implementing every

single workout with success.
Henry Rollins
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� Reply #458 on: May 15, 2014, 05:32:17 AM �
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DrX, would you like to talk about shoulder and arms training. My chest geneticaly
is easy to develop part for me but shoulder- thats where it get tricky.
TRT
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� Reply #457 on: May 14, 2014, 09:45:41 PM �
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Great! Thanks for info. One more question...Is there any difference between
Extended release and sustained release?
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� Reply #456 on: May 14, 2014, 07:30:28 PM �
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TRT
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Tren Replacement Therapy


� Reply #455 on: May 14, 2014, 06:04:06 PM �
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Hello afilol123,
You would have to give me more information on your friend. Was he in shape,
muscular and active prior to diagnosis? Simple changes to most type2's including as
you said, both a controlled carb intake and exercise can in itself lower glucose
and raise sensitivity. On paper someone who does cardio everyday, eats healthy,
trains with weights, is muscular/lean should never get diabetes. And yet, here we
are. I will look more into the role of T3 and diabetes, but at this point it is
another variable I would need to control very strictly to see how I would respond
vs your friend. I am not quite ready for that yet. But you did hit on a very very
important role metformin plays and I will cover that now.
One of the most important tools the type2 diabetic has in his/her arsenal for the
control and sensitivity of blood sugars is Metformin. What is Metformin and how
does it really work. I would like to take out as many of the false bro-science
statements that plaques this compound. Metformin is an oral antidiabetic drug in
the biguanide class. It was the drug of choice for the treatment of MY type 2
diabetes. It helped stabilize both my blood sugars and weight immediately, WITHOUT
the use of insulin. I was initially put on 2000mgs a day, 1000 in the morning with
my breakfast and another 1000 at night with my last meal. My doctor also wanted me
on Insulin N, but I kindly refused mainly because I needed to know how metformin
would work alone and in isolation. Insulin would lower blood glucose, but how would
I know my personal response to metformin if both were run concurrently. I next
introduced R however at a later date. As I personally prefer R over N and Log,
especially for bodybuilding purposes.
How did metformin stabilize my blood glucose and weight? It works through 3 modes
of action. It actually decreases the amount of glucose you absorb from your food
and at the same time suppresses glucose production by the liver. The liver produces
glucose during fasting (night) to maintain normal levels of blood sugar. After a
meal, the pancreas releases insulin, the hormone responsible for glucose
absorption. Once insulin is released, the liver should turn off its glucose
production, but in people with Type 2 diabetes, the liver fails to sense insulin
and continues to make glucose. The condition is caused by a glitch in the
communication between liver and pancreas. In other words metformin makes the liver
more sensitive to insulin.
I previously mentioned my diet prior to diagnosis, which was a low carb high
fat/protein intake. Well there is a study where researchers induced insulin
resistance in mice by feeding them a high-fat diet over several months. Mice on
high-fat diets developed insulin resistance, and their high blood glucose levels
did not drop to normal after eating. Once treated with metformin, their blood
glucose levels returned to normal but over some time.
Metformin also increases your body's response to insulin sensitivity by increasing

peripheral glucose uptake and utilization. In other words it slowly opens up the
closed cell doors due to resistance. I repeat this, metformin is NOT insulin or an
insulin like hormone. It does NOT drive nutrients per say, it only works on the
periphery to increase sensitivity. This is the key to understand, it does not
stimulate endogenous insulin secretion, AND it does not cause hypoglycemia or
hyperinsulinemia, side effects associated with other anti-diabetic drugs. If you
are already sensitive, metformin will do nothing for you. The only issues I faced
with metformin was gastrointestinal upset, in the form of bloated stomach, gas and
diarrhea. This is caused by delaying or obstructing the absorption of sugars from
the intestines into the bloodstream after eating thus ALSO causing lower blood
sugars.
Could using this compound at times where you are not resistant cause future harm.
Time will tell. There are those who use it during heavy carbs days. Would I
personally use it in this fashion? There is not much benefit other then the
delayed/obstructed carb absorption mechanism.
The time to use metformin is when resistance develops and blood glucose becomes
unstable. How would you know that? Your tools!!!! Learn to use them.....
DrX
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� Reply #454 on: May 14, 2014, 01:02:08 PM �
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Quote from: DrX on May 14, 2014, 02:25:38 AM
Quote from: doinitbig732 on May 13, 2014, 04:30:24 PM
DrX thank you so much and I can't wait until you have the time to write more about
chest. I greatly anticipate it. I tried your logic on slight incline dumbell flies
and it worked great. Following a straight line over the thickest part of my chest
and keeping my hands in good position felt great. The video was good too. Thanks
alot.
Your welcome. There is a specific reason I have you at those 15-30 degree angles.
It was called the sweet spot many years ago. These shallow angles will help you
develop that mind muscle connection with your chest especially with flys. A
difference of 5 degrees can make the difference between a deep connection and sub-
par one. The connection on flat dumbbell bench flys will not be as deep as the 15
degree angle because loads are transferred across the front delts. Over time I want
you to slightly increase the angle. Each and every time maintaining form and
function (deep stretch and contraction feeling the load right over the chest). You
will notice anything above 40-45 degrees will cause the front delts to take over
again. Over time you will find that personal "sweet spot" angle that along with the
other key mid-range exercises will give you that thick, deeply carved chest.
DrX
As far as the other mid range exercises go... I love flies. I love anything barbell
related. But as for dips I just never do them because my shoulders take over and I
barely and I mean barely feel it in my chest or tris. Is there a replacement for
dips?
DrX
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� Reply #453 on: May 14, 2014, 02:25:38 AM �
ReplyQuote
alot.
Your welcome. There is a specific reason I have you at those 15-30 degree angles.
It was called the sweet spot many years ago. These shallow angles will help you
develop that mind muscle connection with your chest especially with flys. A
difference of 5 degrees can make the difference between a deep connection and sub-
par one. The connection on flat dumbbell bench flys will not be as deep as the 15
degree angle because loads are transferred across the front delts. Over time I want
you to slightly increase the angle. Each and every time maintaining form and
function (deep stretch and contraction feeling the load right over the chest). You
will notice anything above 40-45 degrees will cause the front delts to take over
again. Over time you will find that personal "sweet spot" angle that along with the
other key mid-range exercises will give you that thick, deeply carved chest.
DrX
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doinitbig732
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� Reply #452 on: May 13, 2014, 04:30:24 PM �
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alot.
Mkayy
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� Reply #451 on: May 13, 2014, 11:31:00 AM �
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What a write up Drx, everytime I come to this thread I learn something new....
kng
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� Reply #450 on: May 12, 2014, 07:01:17 PM �
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For Those that doubt body building is an art, I'd show them this thread.
I'm glad you're doing fine despite life getting in the way DrX.
DrX
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� Reply #449 on: May 12, 2014, 01:50:44 PM �
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Dr.X I really hope everything goes well with you. We really appreciate your
insight. This site is pretty much better than a Barnes & Noble bookstore. I know
awhile back in this thread you mentioned a chest article you were writing. I know
youre super busy and havent had time for it no biggie. However, in that post you
mentioned the old school Weider benches with the narrower cushioning and narrower
rack bars. My friend has one in his basement and said I could have it. Would this
really be beneficial to me or is there something I can do to emulate it in the gym?
Let me know thanks!
The development of chest has to do with the equipment, exercises chosen, form, and
technique. If just one is incorrect, the chest becomes a VERY VERY stubborn body
part to develop. This actually is an in-depth answer I do not have time to tackle
today, but I can give some advise on particular pieces of equipment that you can
use today. Regardless of that specific bench, you will need three types of loads
placed on the chest for maximum development. A mid-range load, a stretch, and a
contracted position. I recommend three different mid-range loads if the shoulders
are 100% healthy and flexible, all done in PISTON STYLE. This would include flat
barbell bench (or dumbbell) to the top of the nipples, incline bench set to 30-35
degrees (dumbbell or barbell), and dips. If shoulders are problematic, eliminate
all barbell movements.
One of the most important pieces of equipment I use for the stretch position and
overall chest development when the proper bench is NOT available is the adjustable
decline ab bench (picture below). You can set the angles down to as low as 15
degrees and the narrow hard padding most come with allow your shoulders to float
over the edges. Do NOT use the soft cushy wide ones. The stretch position will come
from a fly movement done on the lowest setting you can find on these benches(15-30
degrees). As you sit backwards place your head just below the foot peddles. DO NOT
ALLOW THE HEAD TO MOVE UP OR DOWN UP DURING THE STROKE, as it is to remain relaxed
and on the pad at all times. The back remains completely flat with your feet on the
floor. I personally do not like flat bench flyes as shoulder activation becomes
overly problematic especially upon the anterior deltoids. If done correctly you
will feel that DEEP stretch right across the center of the chest plate. Breathing
is paramount here too. A deep breath into the stretch and an exhale at the top, to
contract the muscle. Your line of motion is also critical. I see many bodybuilders
move that arc far to back over the face especially at the top. You want a straight
line DIRECTLY over your thickest part of your chest. To make it simple for now,
palms are to face each other at the top, and be almost parallel to the floor at the
bottom stretch.
The decline ab bench can also be used for 15-30 degree dumbbell presses too. I do
this all the time depending on which gym I am at.
For the contracted position I do like cable cross-overs. The trick I use is the
critical angle and line that crosses the chest. The key FIRST is to getting the
right height for handles. I link and lock the pulleys so that the handles will
hang about two inches above the shoulders. I recommend a line that also comes down
and across the center line of the chest. This angle and movement gives the best
squeeze imaginable.
So the bottom line is that the bench in question is only one part of the equation.
I have not got into technique, but that in-itself is what differentiates an
exceptional chest from a poorly developed chest even if the exercises I recommend
were performed.
The link bellow covers the basics for the flys. If you have access to this
adjustable bench, I would come back just one more notch down. But more or less that
is the angle you want. If you don't have one like this that is where the decline ab
bench would come in.
DrX
* declineAb2.jpg (4.06 kB, 272x185 - viewed 425 times.)

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ironraider
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� Reply #448 on: May 11, 2014, 12:18:37 PM �
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Dr.X....man I love this thread bro...for a number of reasons, but the main one is
your just real, no BS...real life. You young guys reading here...hed well the
advice given, and you'll go farther than you ever will reading anything else.
That includes reading some of the "bro-science" here.
Thank you for being so open about your health etc. It shows all of us that we will
all face changes, trials, and tribulations...and how to deal with them. You truly
are an inspiration to all of us!
Dr.X, a very close friend of mine is a national level competitor and has type 1
diabetes, so of course he's been dealing with his issues since being a small child.
He is now 54 and still competing...even though he has lost his toes on one foot,
and a couple on the other. As some know, this could happen to those with type 1.
He also trains high level regional/national level bbr's, and I've used him in the
recent past for direction.
Nevertheless...he still trains his ass off, takes what is needed to get him to
where he has to go, but health is the KEY. He is so in tune with his body...like
you, with the constant monitoring of blood glucose and blood testing, he almost
gets an immediate response to what he's eaten, shot, etc.
One of the things he noticed while preparing for last years nationals, was the
impact that generic GH had on his blood, and the water retention it created. We
talked about this the other day...and he truly believes it is dose related, and he
simply started with to much. No matter what he took or adjusted in his diet etc.
the water would leave between the skin and muscle. One of his notable qualities is
how shredded he comes in for a show.
He is reintroducing generic GH again...but at a much lower dose...based on his

recent involvement of training one of the class winners at the Emerald Cup.
Something positive occurred that he noticed while training this person, that he
believes could work for him as well.
Can you share a little more details on your findings of GH use, and introducing
this with your slin use etc? Have you changed your training much since this has
been diagnosed?
I'm so happy to hear that you were able to this found out and corrected. Proud of
you bro!!
Blessings,
IR
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� Reply #447 on: May 09, 2014, 01:52:31 PM �
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Lol, yes that's what everyone thinks when they read DrX's posts, "This man's
grammar is atrocious."
This thread just gets better and better. I think DrX at various points has touched
on what I consider the "four legged stool" of health that must be taken into
account and monitored if you want a long, happy life involving hormone use. One of
his themes in this thread is being in it for the long haul with an eye on
longevity. I've said it before and I'll say it again, everyone who chooses to take
hormones should own a automative bp cuff and a glucometer. And know how to use it.
1. Cardiovascular: including BP, lipids. Obvious reasons.
2. liver health: again, obvious reasons. More of an issue with orals.
3, Sleep apnea: this is a killer, and crosses over into heart health, but I give it
its own categary. As weight increases the airway will tend to collapse while
sleeping due to excess tissue. Also has a large hormonal component, for example
pregnant women have rapid changes in their airway as they go through the stages of
labor, mainly due to progesterone. Also associated with AAS, sleep apnea is on the
FDA labeling for testosterone. Its a known side effect. Sleep apnea can also be
affected by water retention. The reason is so bad is more than not getting a full
night's rest, although that will affect your quality of life. The low oxygen
saturation in the lungs causes all the blood vessels in the lungs to constrict,
increasing the resistance on the right side of the heart, which is neither used to
nor designed for high resistance loads. Over time the right side will fail. This
can and will kill you. So if your goal is to be a mass monster accept the fact that
a CPAP machine might be your best friend at night.
4. Insulin resistance: This is more than just a problem having high sugar all the
time. Although that's bad for obvious reasons. But say you're highly resistant, and
do an excellent job of controlling sugar with insulin. Due to the resistance and
higher than normal circulating insulin levels you will develop atherosclerotic and
microvascular disease. Resistance can develop with gh use, and with insulin use.
I keep an eye on resistance with weekly, or biweekly fasting AM glucose readings. I
log them in an excel file. You have to watch the trend over time rather than
fluctuation in one or two readings. Especially because these home meters are only
accurate withing a certain %. The lower the better with fasted AM glucose. Mine has
been varying between 68-85 or so. 126 or above is defined as diabetic. Once you
start to get above 100 consistently you should think about changing something. ie
dropping whatever is making you resistant for a while and taking some metformin.
You can also try to replicate the glucose tolerance test performed in hospitals if
you're really worried.
Fast 8-10 hours. Drink 75 gm glucose. Test glucose at exactly 2 hours. Below 140 is
normal. 140-199 impaired glucose tolerance. The range gives you an idea of how bad.
Greater than 200 is diabetic level.
Test it several times at the two our mark and average the readings. This will give
you a better idea of where you are than fasting glucose. Fasting glucose is more of
a monitoring tool.
Bigwavesurfer
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� Reply #446 on: May 09, 2014, 01:17:11 PM �
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I think DrX should be nominated for Jedi status. Stuff like this is golden.
DrX
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� Reply #445 on: May 09, 2014, 02:13:57 AM �
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To Mkayy, Dr Zeus, raider115, Diluted56, Bigwavesurfer,Mister14, GM specialist, and
B_seem thank you for your kind words. I will get to your individual questions over
time. Each one is more detailed then you think. I do not like to come back with a
thank you and a one sentence response. You come to this thread in particular to
find practical information you can use and apply in a right here, right now moment.
I don't want a 8000 pg thread of thank you's and useless information you don't need
or want.
What you may not know is that my writing skills stink. I am a VERY VERY slow writer
with atrocious grammar. I go back and re-read some of my previous posts and just
shake my head in embarrassment at times. I try to quickly edit things knowing full
well many of you already caught my mistakes.... ( I have edited this response 3
times since posted) :P
But I will say this. If you have found time to come here and post, I also
unbeknownst to you, know more about you in particular. I also follow you in return
over everyone else on this site. You just don't know it....
They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. Well this one in particulr I saw today
had me speechless. Its a relaxed picture of Lionel Beyeke on stage in Brazil. Had
to share.....
DrX
* Beyeke.jpg (83.17 kB, 612x920 - viewed 499 times.)

you."
afilol123
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� Reply #444 on: May 09, 2014, 12:32:40 AM �
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Quote from: afilol123 on May 07, 2014, 05:34:20 PM
I have been working with a type 2 friend of mine, when we started he was at 11-12
mmol/L blood glucose fasted, already on 2000mg metformin a day.
Had him increase is sugar intake from fruits, reduce sstarch from whole grain,
little white rice, increase dairy and calcium coconut primary fat and 50mcg t3 per
day.
1 and half month later hes at 6-7 mmol/L fasted and still improving
I think t3 is very beneficial from type 2 diabetic
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24397163
"decrease of glucose-mediated energy production is accelerated by decrease of the

activity of growth hormone-insulin-like growth factor 1 axis and of conversion of
thyroxine to triiodothyronine."
Hello afilol123,

sugars.
DrX
My friend is 73 years old, slightly overweight and not in shape, i am not

contributing his lowered blood sugar only to the supplementation of T3, as i said
he was already on metformin, but also had a bad diet and little exercise,
I got him a bike so now he bikes around town several times a week, that is his main
exercise, fixed up his diet and supplemented him with T3, Aspirin and vitamin k2
and vitamin b3
Now my thought was that his problem was elevated free fatty acids and that was a
big cause for his bad glucose management, so that's why i have him take aspirin and
vitamin b3 as both can suppress FFA, and due to aspirin nature as a blood thinner
vitamin k2 is necessary to offset that.
Same effect on GLUT 4 receptors can be had from exercise but in a lesser degree
then metformin obviously
But a side effect i have noticed with him is that metformin seems to lower b12 a
lot.
polyunsatured fats especially omega 6s and others found in vegetable oils are the
worst for insulin resistance, as the really contribute to increased FFA more so
then other fats, but yes
the nature of high fat diet induced insulin resistance is probably due to elevation
in free fatty acids and supression of mitochondrial respiration and also damage of
beta cells in the pancreas
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC42111/
"..mice fed a high-fat (safflower oil) diet develop defective glycemic control,
hyperglycemia, and obesity."
"Non-insulin-dependent diabetes (NIDDM) is characterized by overproduction of

glucose, decreased effects of insulin on glucose utilization and production, and a
defect in glucose-induced insulin secretion. NIDDM is also associated with defects
in fatty acid metabolism, i.e. enhanced lipolysis and impaired suppression of
adipose tissue lipolysis in response to insulin, and increased plasma free fatty
acid levels. It has been suggested that the "glucose-fatty acid cycle" is enhanced
in NIDDM and could contribute to disturbed glucose homeostasis. "
Studies performed in the rat suggest that impaired glucose induced insulin
secretion could also be related to chronic exposure of pancreatic beta cells to
elevated plasma free fatty acid levels.
This direct effect of free fatty acids on the beta cells is extremely important.
Estrogen and GH increases free fatty acids, and adrenalin which is elevated in
hypothyroidism. Free fatty acids impair mitochondrail energy production.
And for T3
http://newsok.com/thyroid-hormone-could-help-
diabetics/article/3519169#ixzz16sEotcfa

joeyflex69
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� Reply #443 on: May 08, 2014, 06:25:26 PM �
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day.

Hello afilol123,

sugars.
DrX
God-damn that is a unbeleiveable post.
A true asset
Ive personally always used metformin to reset insulin sentivity after really going
full force with it for a while. I was taugh that way, any other way its useles.
Champions do what competitors do not
The truth shall set you free
If i miss a question in a thread, PM me the link and I will answer it. Its hard for
me to see everything.
DrX
WIZARD
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Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #442 on: May 08, 2014, 01:40:08 PM �
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day.

Hello afilol123,

sugars.
DrX
you."
Bigwavesurfer
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Posts: 827

� Reply #441 on: May 08, 2014, 05:15:13 AM �
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Hey DrX. I wanted to post a couple questions that maybe you can answer.
1) Why do you prefer R over Log?
2) Do you use any vitamins like chromium, cinnamon, biotin, etc to aid in glucose?
If so how much and when?
3) What is a low, good, and high glucose reading approximately? If low or high
what should one do to compensate?
I'd appreciate it and I'm sure other members will too. Not that much info out
there on this stuff. I've been doing a lot of research in regards to glucose and
insulin levels from Poliquin. But he doesn't go into the use of slin with such so
thats why I'm curious what someone with your knowledge and experience would
recommend. Thanks brother.
doinitbig732
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� Reply #440 on: May 07, 2014, 07:14:05 PM �
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Dr.X I really hope everything goes well with you. We really appreciate your
insight. This site is pretty much better than a Barnes & Noble bookstore. I know
awhile back in this thread you mentioned a chest article you were writing. I know
youre super busy and havent had time for it no biggie. However, in that post you
mentioned the old school Weider benches with the narrower cushioning and narrower
rack bars. My friend has one in his basement and said I could have it. Would this
really be beneficial to me or is there something I can do to emulate it in the gym?
Let me know thanks!
afilol123
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Posts: 73

� Reply #439 on: May 07, 2014, 05:34:20 PM �
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day.


B_seem
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� Reply #438 on: May 07, 2014, 05:18:17 PM �
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GM specialist
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Posts: 1948

� Reply #437 on: May 06, 2014, 06:00:34 AM �
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One of the best threads on the board, have no idea why I haven t wrote anything,
but now I am in.
You are a great poster DrX, thanks for sharing your health problems with us. If we
know anything on this board it is to offer a support to all of out members, no
matter what rang are they. Hope that you will still menage to look great, I see
that you are well known with your problem and insulin protocols.
Following in and good luck

You love MMA? Please visit our section and join us
http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?board=71.0
Quote from: gh15 on November 14, 2014, 06:43:36 AM

i like you
you realy have presence
Quote from: BLP on November 18, 2014, 09:51:31 AM

GM/GH15 mma team
Mister14
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� Reply #436 on: May 06, 2014, 05:54:17 AM �
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you have an IDEAL look for me. in between men's physique and BBing. AMAZING work.
thanks for all the information you have shared in here
Bigwavesurfer
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� Reply #435 on: May 06, 2014, 05:30:29 AM �
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Great read. Keep'em coming
DrX
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� Reply #434 on: May 05, 2014, 02:12:52 PM �
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Quote from: Dr Zeus on May 03, 2014, 10:22:55 AM
Wow DrX, thanks for sharing that man. Your attitude towards the whole thing is
amazing. It could have been so much easier to feel sorry for yourself and have low
spirits but you grabbed it by the horns did your research and overcame the
obstacle. A lot to be said about that mentality. Take notes people.
As for someone who recently jumped into GH (same generics as you). Only being 22,
would you suggest starting slin as well to avoid these issues? I was thinking about
playing with doses of 10iu postworkout 4 weeks on 4 weeks off. Or at my age is it
not needed yet? If not, when do you suggest starting it?
Great to hear you are doing well now and I wish you well! Thanks for all this
amazing info. never got to thank you for the post on test doses. :)
I'll get to one question first that many may ask and I see causes a great deal of
confusion about resistance. Before we even get into GH and it's roll does the macro
nutrient breakdown have anything to do with causing or exasperating resistance. So
the question is, what was I consuming prior to the diagnosis? I had been dieting
down for 3-4 months with a low carb, high fat/protein intake. Only one day a week
did I get a high carb intake (actually half day). I have seen many insist lowering
carbs help against resistance. This was NOT true in my case. Actually, the opposite
may be correct, not enough carbs, and the mistiming of GH, may have been
contributors. There is no way of really telling, I can only go by gut instinct. If
I would have do it all over again, I would never have taken my GH shots post
workout. This is the time you need extreme sensitivity, but I was thinking maximum
fat loss. Was this the cause, no, my genetics had a bigger role to play in the
outcome!!!!!!!!
There are those that can take 2000mgs of test, and conceive children. There are
those who are on 200mg of test who cannot. There are those who can take over 1000mg
of masterone with no prostate issues. And there are those where as little of 300mgs
of masterone causes prostate flare ups. There are those who can take 20iu of gh
with NO resistance issues, and there are those like me with as little of 4iu causes
a massive swing in blood glucose.
THIS IS CALLED GENETICS!!!!
So what is resistance in a nut shell. Well you have to understand the roll of gh
and insulin. Think of insulin like a key, that unlocks cell doors and allows
nutrients inside. GH on the other hand locks doors and does not allow certain
nutrients in or out. When that ratio over time goes in the favor of GH and there
are more cells with closed doors, sugars then cannot get into cells. This begins a
cascade of glucose floating around in the blood stream with no where to go causing
insurmountable damage to small blood vessels if not kept in check over time.
So let me get to your important question, with a question. Do you have the tools
necessary to deal with and control these hormones carefully?
I have not seen this discussed before but when that time comes based on YOUR
personal decisions and things go wrong can you adapt and react faster? Do not take
GH and insulin lightly. They are the last tools to be used in our arsenal, but they
are the ones that require the most respect and understanding.
Tools required:
1) Baseline lab work. The single most important lab test you will need to do prior
to starting gh and or insulin is called the A1C. There are others but this one is
the easiest to get and interpret. This test also known as the hemoglobin A1C and is
used to diagnose type1 and type2 diabetes. More importantly this tool helps gauge
how well diabetes is CONTROLLED. The lab test measures the amount of glucose
attached to the red blood cells over a 2-4 month period. It is a slow moving
average. For those without diabetes, the normal range of the A1C test should be
between 4% and 5.6%. A1C levels between 5.7% and 6.4% indicate increased risk of
diabetes, and levels of 6.5% or higher indicate diabetes. Get this test done prior
to GH use and map your results over time. I would suggest at least twice a year if
on GH regardless of dose or brand.
2) Home glucose meter kit. This is a must with insulin, but having one prior to GH
use will allow you to react faster if or when blood glucose begins to spike. I have
tried quite a few and am partial to the One Touch Ultra meters. They are small,
convenient and well priced. What I really like is the amount of blood sample
required. A setting of 3 on the lancet gun will produce no pain and just enough
blood for a good accurate reading. You can even download a program and chart you
blood values from your meter to your computer. Depending on your GH use, you can
test yourself first thing in the morning fasted. How often you check is up to you.
Twice a week would be fine, as long as the same variables are in place on the day
prior to testing. Normal sugar levels is considered to be less than 100 mg/dL when
fasting and less than 140 mg/dL two hours after eating. But in most healthy people,
sugar levels are even lower. People without diabetes, blood sugar levels before
meals will run around 70 to 80 mg/dL.
3) The insulin pin. This one surprises me. I can't tell you how many times I have
heard first time users over-dose themselves on insulin mainly because the overly
confusing markings on some pins. NEVER, I repeat NEVER use the 1ml/1cc 100iu pins
that are used for GH. This one gets too many people in trouble. I recommend the
smaller well marked (only in iu) 3/10ml pins (30iu). The measurements will also be
more accurate for less complications. I'll give a an example of accuracy. At the
moment I am dieting, and the difference of 1iu means either going hypo and/or
skirting on that 70 to 80 mg/dL line. Once in diet mode you do not have that luxury
of extra sugars every time you measure incorrectly.
So how does these tools work in the real world? And how will it help you? Well we
have all seen the famous standard of 10grams of glucose per 1iu of insulin. What
does that mean? Absolutely NOTHING really if you do not know where your blood
glucose values are to begin with. I will give you an example. Bodybuilder A and B
have never seen or know where their glucose levels fall during the day. So A says
on the board all I need is 6 grams per 1iu of insulin. He believes this is good,
based on just a lower glucose requirement. Where as bodybuilder B thinks he
requires 12 grams. What A may not know is that his waking blood glucose levels are
180mg/dl and 2 hours post meal it is 240mg/dl. He does not realize he is resistant
already, and the extra glucose in the blood gets shuttled into cells first
requiring less carbs to eat. For some reason he never goes hypo, and thinks this is
a good thing. Bodybuilder B has a waking blood glucose level of 70mg/dl. He will
require more glucose then A as only his bolus meal will provide those sugars, yet
goes hypo all the time. See where I am going.....
Here is a quote from George Herbert, "Do not wait; the time will never be 'just
right.' Start where you stand, and work with whatever tools you may have at your
command, and better tools will be found as you go along."
DrX
you."
Diluted56
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� Reply #433 on: May 03, 2014, 02:56:22 PM �
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DrX thank you for sharing that troubled time you went through with us on this
board.
Really look up to you and the strength you hold to bounce back from something like
this and keep pushing towards your goals.
This thread is a gold-mine of information and I often come back to read it cover-
to-cover. I always walk away having learnt something more.
Wow DrX, thanks for sharing that man. Your attitude towards the whole thing is
amazing. It could have been so much easier to feel sorry for yourself and have low
spirits but you grabbed it by the horns did your research and overcame the
obstacle. A lot to be said about that mentality. Take notes people.
As for someone who recently jumped into GH (same generics as you). Only being 22,
would you suggest starting slin as well to avoid these issues? I was thinking about
playing with doses of 10iu postworkout 4 weeks on 4 weeks off. Or at my age is it
not needed yet? If not, when do you suggest starting it?
Great to hear you are doing well now and I wish you well! Thanks for all this
amazing info. never got to thank you for the post on test doses. :)

Mkayy
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Posts: 2956

� Reply #430 on: May 03, 2014, 09:04:26 AM �
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Drx. I'm sorry to hear about your health troubles brother. However, reading the
above passages it is obvious that you have accepted it and moved on, the true mark
of a "strong" person. Fedor Emelianenko, one of the all time Mixed Martial Arts
greats in my opinion was once quoted after his loss to Fabrico Werdum saying,
"without falling we cannot learn to stand"...that is what I get from you, everybody
has troubles, trials and tribulations it is how we approach them as people and
either lay down or work our way through them that defines us.
As always, thank you for a great, insightful post.

DrX
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� Reply #429 on: May 03, 2014, 02:15:31 AM �
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Quote from: TTT_ToTheTop on May 02, 2014, 08:36:57 PM
Im sorry to hear that, but also very happy that youre doing alright now. Really
hope everything is okay man!
Thanks for asking!! Everything is going extremely well right now. Only dieting has
me in a pissy mood right now. :P
The type2 diagnosis was both a curse and a blessing all rolled into one. In life
you will get knocked to the ground hard many, many times. How you deal with life's
uncertainties will define you. And these uncertainties will come at you from all
angles. Sometimes you need to fail at things in order to learn. Other times you
need to feel pain in order to live.
As long as you don't make the same mistakes twice, you are ahead in my book.
DrX
you."
TTT_ToTheTop
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� Reply #428 on: May 02, 2014, 08:36:57 PM �
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Im sorry to hear that, but also very happy that youre doing alright now. Really
hope everything is okay man!
DrX
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Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #427 on: May 02, 2014, 02:04:02 PM �
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It has been a while since I have updated my own progress. There have been some very
personal health issues I have faced in the last year, which in ways turned my life
upside down. I have been relatively quiet about these issues but have shared them
with a key few members here. My main reason for not updating my personal progress
was I needed time to figure out how to cope and meticulously deal with these
changes that affected both my personal and my bodybuilding life. Now that things
have stabilized, can I openly discuss what happened.
About eight months ago right after my son was born, I was diagnosed with type two
diabetes. My family has had a solid genetic link to diabetes for many generations
as such was one of the reasoning's my diet and cardio was always so important to
me. I also knew and took responsibility for the use of GH, and its very strong role
in how my body processes and becomes additionally resistant to sugars. That is why
I only used bare minimums (never more the 4-5iu/day). Type2 is not an easy disease
to manage, but with my background and discipline in place, keeping blood sugars in
very tight ranges was not very difficult. Checking sugars 4-8 times a day is now
the norm for me. Both the use of an oral sensitizing anti-diabetic agent
(Metformin) and Insulin have been a god-send. And as a Type2 they will more then
likely be used for life!!!
I am at peace with that now.
How did I find out? It began when those pictures on page one were taken as it was
time to fill back out, get my strength back and be ready for the new baby. But I
was unable to. The strangest things began to happen. The more carbs I ate to fill
out , the leaner I became. This created a vicious circle of consuming more carbs,
and more carbs. Yet my weight continued to drop and I FELT LIKE DEATH!!! I knew at
an early enough date that I was in trouble. Checked myself into urgent care at the
hospital and had immediate blood work done. It confirmed my diagnosis. After one
day of feeling sorry for myself it was time to grab the bulls by the horn and take
charge. I hate the victim mentality, as my decisions not only affect my immediate
family, but my employees who rely on me to put food on the table and a roof over
their heads for their families too. That thought alone has kept me up many many
nights......
So I removed all AAS and GH for a while and then reintroduced only one AAS back at
a time after a set point in time. I had to start over. I needed to first see if any
AAS changed my blood values. One main issue with type two was higher glucose
reading in the morning then at night. This is called "dawn phenomenon". This occurs
when growth hormone, cortisol, and catecholamines work against insulin's action to
drop blood sugars. At a time when bedtime insulin wears out, these combined events
cause the body's liver to release blood sugar levels which rise in the morning. I
wanted to make sure non of the AAS had an effect on my liver even ever so slightly
which may have exasperated the production of glucose at night.
I have spent most of my time reading and understanding the role of GH on blood
sugars, especially in the older athlete. I can already see, I am not alone. There
are many elite athletes and bodybuilders who are quietly diabetic. It is a very
touchy subject that still being debated on. Hypothesis of the cause gets revised
all the time. One bottom line for me personally, is that GH cannot be used alone
without the use of both insulin and an oral agent. I do see many bro-science, re-
repeated incorrect statements about this subject that I personally disagree with.
But this is not here nor now.
Once I was able to control my blood sugars it was the time to get back to what I
love, bodybuilding. But insulin had changed everything. I have helped others with
this key agent, but I have always felt I was not ready for it yet. I had only
scratched the range of AAS doses that produced the best gains. And I felt I could
get to another level without it. The other main reason for not using insulin prior
to this was the personal observation that the introduction of slin to early hurts
structure. I see this all the time, especially with the younger generation. The key
to insulin is the amount of muscle the frame carries. The higher the amounts of
muscle, the better insulin works. If one does not have the degree of muscle to soak
up additional glycogen, fat gain and structure changes begin, especially if doses
are too aggressive to begin with. Once structure changes especially in the mid
section there is no going back.
I needed to carefully tread water with the unknowns during my growth phase. For
those not familiar with slin, I will give you some information that you may or may
not have known. The true term grow lean, like I have said is ONLY possible with
slin. You now have the ability to use less calories and at the same time DROP
protein intake significantly and still grow. All I needed was 2500-3000Kcal a day.
My base was high test, and deca, and masterone, with primo, NPP, eq, dbol all
rotated in and out. When GH was brought back in, it was (generic)4iu per day, four
days on, three days off. I was able to take myself to the mid 190's relatively
lean, but not lean as in today's standards. My standard was what I saw in the 80-
90's off-season look. This was also where I felt the best in my life. Slin use was
very moderate compared to what is used today. Maximum of 50iu of R was needed per
day. Remember unlike non diabetics, the focus was on controlling high glucose
levels. I am in the minority with the use of fats with slin. I actually had fats in
my diet as I felt on a personal level they are not only mandatory for repair but
for additional development of that full, thick hard physique I was after. You just
need to time fat intake correctly.
One of the biggest differences was in the training side of the equation. The
vasodilation properties slin produced made certain exercises impossible to perform.
Both the rear and front squats were out. The amount pain the lower back pump
produced was excruciating. I could not walk after the warm up sets. Every leg
exercise had to be done with back support. Shoulders and forearm pumps were
unbearable at times. Even the shins and calves got pumped during my morning cardio
secession. That subsided with time though.
I remember watching a old video of Ronnie Coleman after he turned pro and commented
on how he was able to get more reps with each subsequent set as the weight got
heavier. I thought he was superman. Now I know he was Ronnie Coleman on insulin.
Each and every set feels fresh. Even the heaviest hardest set in piston style feels
endless. This is what causes growth.
Once up to the mid 190's I then hit another health hurdle. All that weight across
the traps and neck began to create sleeping issues. I developed sleep apnea which I
do consider also VERY VERY serious. I knew once it began to develop I needed to
trim down and begin the dieting phase. This is where I am now. I was going to post
pictures at my heaviest, but if I lecture the idea of disappearing for a while like
they did in the 80's then I should too. I've continued with my high test/deca/mast
base, but rotated my macro-nutrients around and lowered calories. I dropped my carb
intake to only two meals and added in more fats and protein. I based my insulin on
blood values and where my carb intake falls. I am roughly at the same degree of
conditioning as the pictures on page one but am about 15lbs or so heavier.
Now to what I feel is the real important lesson through my experiences. When I was
first diagnosed with type2 I had a new doctor who I had never met. I had just
changed health insurances and had lost my original doctor. My first visit with my
new MD was a horrific experience. She was cold, very demanding, non-flexible, with
terrible bed side manors. She had a "my way or the highway attitude". She was not
willing to work with me. That VERY night I called my provider and set up another
appointment with another MD for the following week. We met, reviewed the labs and I
felt very comfortable with him. Just the opposite of Cruella de Vil. If I did not
like him, I would have set up another appointment with yet another MD. The simple
truth here at GH15, we are not your doctors, and as such if you plan on running
doses and compounds at blast levels, you had better start working on getting that
all important doctor by your side. One that knows you, your history and can work
with you. You will need him/her one day. Every top competitor in the sport has one.
And trust me, they need them.
It has been a rough ride. The decisions we make as bodybuilders ALWAYS have
consequences. Just make the best possible decisions as they arise.
But in the end, we are a different breed. This is who we are, and we do not
apologize for being bodybuilders.
DrX
* Poval.jpg (6.92 kB, 183x276 - viewed 685 times.)

you."
TTT_ToTheTop
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Re: DrX Photos:70-80's Protocol. The Golden Eagle Pg11

� Reply #426 on: April 29, 2014, 08:39:37 PM �
ReplyQuote
Thank you for the deep answer, I really like how you take time to give good
answers. This whole thread is like a gold mine of knowledge. I like your approach
and actually liked the same basic compounds test and deca. Ill probably will take
time off when I feel like it and eventually maybe Ill just stick with it and never
come off. Do you have any problems with constantly being on "high" dose of ASS and
not blast and cruise?
DrX
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Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #425 on: April 27, 2014, 02:06:44 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: TTT_ToTheTop on April 24, 2014, 03:52:10 PM
Quote from: DrX on April 24, 2014, 02:16:36 PM
Quote from: TTT_ToTheTop on April 24, 2014, 06:20:47 AM
Man, you are hands down my favourite member on the board! What Im about to ask you
probably was beaten to death in a lot of threads but I want your opinion on the
subject. First Id like to mention that Im 19 years old, turning 20 next month. With
that being said Im kinda unsure if its not too early for me to hop on that "cruise
and blast" train. When I think about Ive done like 3 or 4 cycles with 2-3-4 months
between them and probably didnt "recover" from them but still its kinda scary. How
you decided that it was time for you to start b&c and if comfortable to answer- how
old were you?
Really looking forward to hear from you!
Cheers, brother!
Thank You TTT,
You have a question I feel I can add to and beyond for many others to learn from.
If you could, just copy paste the entire question and put it on the 70-80s thread.
I have one question to answer before yours and then ill get to it. Things are
incredibly busy right now. But your question is important enough because you are
not alone with this question and dilemma!!!
Thanks
DrX
Here we go DrX! I am really astonished just what great human being you are...my
deepest respect, sir!
Again, thank you TTT_ToTheTop!!
I'll start with this quote from an article called 8 lessons in Manhood from the
Vikings. It was posted by Ironraider in his Bringing Old and New section.
"Don't ever ask for advice. There's a compass inside of you that knows what to do,
where to go, who to be. To elaborate on that, when we're asking for advice what
we're often doing is asking for affirmation that what we wanted to do is the right
thing to do, but we know what is good and what is bad and what must be done. We (I
included) ask for advice far too often instead of listening to that inner compass
and doing what our souls beacon us to do".
The question you ask is probably the single hardest answer to give in bodybuilding.
The decision simply can be life altering. There are so many variables to consider,
from your age, to training/aas/diet experience, to your genetic background and
probable health issues. Baby steps, baby steps, as this decision must be made over
time. Gradually, you will come to an answer best suited for you.
My decision was made well into my 30's after I had achieved balance in my life
between my education, business, and marriage. Remember, I grew up in another
generation where we did not blast out of the gate. There were cycles 2-3 per year
(<1000mg week). The rest of the time you were off. We did not have to make that
hard decision. And looking back, it made sense for me personally. It helped
solidify my life around other ambitions and goals while the love for bodybuilding
was always there. You looked so forward to that next cycle. But we were disciplined
to take time off.
I also learned quickly from my very first cycle that I had poorer response to AAS
then did my training partner. I knew immediately that my love of bodybuilding is
also keenly tied to AAS and it's set genetic response. This transformed my lofty
aspirations into real and obtainable goals.
We will get to the discussion on genetics soon, but the bodybuilders we've all
admired do have the best genetic makeup for bodybuilding. They also started the way
I did, and probably GH15 did too. They responded so well to cycles, that over time
they began to blast and cruise. In other words when the cream rose to the top they
were now justified to take things to the next level. The inner circles of
bodybuilding did not want to waste time giving out the true secrets of bodybuilding
to everyone, because the truth is everyone would not respond in the same way. They
only needed a few genetic elite who showed exceptional response to lower doses and
cycles because they would eventually return financial rewards back to the
organization.
I have a dear friend who I see once or twice a week at my gym. His name is Dash.
Who is Dash you may ask? Well, I have kept him a secret. Dash is in his late 50's
and has been a staple here in LA, training religiously at the famous Golds in
Venice from the heyday of Arnold to the early 90's. He is been training at my gym
for a little of 5 years now. If you were also there, I bet he looked and dressed
the same. Wears the same grey colored long sleeve sweats and tan boots every time,
and is ALWAYS covered up. He never shows off the physique. The guy is still in
unbelievable shape and is strong as HELL. He has seen them all, and he has trained
with them all. I do not like to interrupt him while he is training, but when we are
near each other I always get to ask questions about the nostalgic Arnold era. Ahhh,
the gym related stories he has told me. He loves it. Has one of the best hardy
laughs I have ever heard. Sometimes I can hear him laugh across the gym over my
headsets. And it just always wants to me want to smile.....
We will talk about what he has told me about that era at a later date, but I want
to go into something he said a few months ago about genetics and the past that most
do not know or understand. I asked him why he never competed like his peers. His
said straight out, and I'll paraphrase, he felt his response to AAS was shit. We
hear young newcomers always ask that famous question. If I had access to what they
had, would I look like them? The answer is a yes and NO!!
The 70's had a look based on the selection of AAS they used, the 80's had another
look based on the selection they used, then in the 90's things changed. So yes, you
can obtain a certain look based on your selection. But, ultimately, it will come
down to genetics as explained very importantly below.
As Dash said, he saw so many come and go from around the country wanting to be the
next Arnold. They had access to what he had, the only difference, they did not
respond like Arnold. You saw the same famous 10-20 faces at golds on the cover of
magazines, but you NEVER saw all the hundreds who failed to other circumstances. As
he said the "powers to be" only wanted the best of the best. They responded well to
LESS and THEN were given MORE. And they again responded to more and more.....
He did not respond like the elite, and peacefully accepted his fate.
DrX
* Arn1975a.jpg (45.46 kB, 559x720 - viewed 826 times.)
* arn1975b.jpg (74.44 kB, 600x377 - viewed 822 times.)

you."
jmattsen
Emperor
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Posts: 737

� Reply #424 on: April 25, 2014, 06:57:56 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: jmattsen on April 23, 2014, 03:24:05 AM
Hello Dr. X,
I wanted to let you know that your thread is awesome. I've been sitting on a bus
basically all day and this has kept me busy for much of the ride. There's so much
stuff in here that I want to incorporate into not only my training but also my
lifestyle and outlook on bodybuilding in general.
I actually started a log on here pretty recently. I'm still a natural and am trying
to set my self up with a good natural base before I start the Globalge of hormones.
I was wondering if you could take a look through it and tell me where I could
possibly improve and where I should be going. Much like you I am really looking for
that 70s styled physique and my genetics aren't very good but seeing that you have
been able to look as great as you do even without great genetics has really put my
own thoughts about my potential into perspective. Any advice you could give me
would be extremely appreciated.
Thank you very much man
Hello Jmat!! First right off the bat let me congratulate you on being able to diet
down to incredibly low body fat levels. It tells me a couple important things. One,
you do not have as bad of genetics as you think. Your abs at your lowest point do
not have unequal fat distribution. That is great news. Second, you did this with no
assistance from AAS or any other stimulant. You know how to diet naturally. Most do
not!!!!! You have an advantage over others. Third, you have great attitude/will
power and can stick to goals.
Now we can address some issues that I see will hold you back from becoming the best
you can. And I want to see you THRIVE!!!!!
What I am about to say will help alleviate some emotional crutches which should
help redefine your goals and accomplishments. First things first, you are NATURAL.
As such why do you put so much emphasis into goals that are not obtainable by most
naturals. This is a bodybuilding site geared to those who make changes to their
physiques because they are on AAS, insulin, gh etc...... You need to understand
posting pictures of yourself daily will only add to your frustrations. YOU WILL NOT
SEE THE CHANGES OTHER DO BECAUSE YOU ARE NATURAL. So why torment yourself. You have
learned that when you diet without AAS, you will lose most or all of your muscle
tissue. Been there, done that many times myself as a natural!!!! You have also
learned bulking with no AAS will put a considerable amounts of fat on. So do not
compare yourself to others on this site.
Take a step back and ask yourself, what is the point of posting pictures day in and
day out when as a natural there will be very little to no changes to lean tissue.
Will your body change much because you missed a few days of training and pigged out
over the weekend? NO!!!!!!You will bounce back and forth between 147-155lbs,
regardless. Why worry?????
I have said this before, even to those ON globalage!!! Posting pictures day to day
or week to week will not accomplish anything. It takes months even years to see
solid progress, not days!!!!! Go back to page 10 on this thread and look carefully
at the pictures on the "dealer" writeup. How many years did it take that generation
to develop their ultimate physiques. This is what you want correct? It took them
decades, not weeks and they were juiced to the gills, and you are not. Enjoy the
time training as a natural, keep goals manageable. Put more emphasis on training
techniques and diet and enjoy your college life. This is the time to introduce new
exercises and foods. Experiment, you will need them when that time comes.
I am also very proud that your eating 5 meals over the course of the day and
cooking the majority of meals the night before. Now lets take a look at those 5
meals. Like you have read I like a diversity of foods during those five meals. You
only had chicken and rice. Eating that narrow of a selection due to a lack of
varied nutrients will hinder your progress. Instead of rice with every meal, prep a
different carb source of your choice. For example, on meal one replace equal
amounts of rice for a red sweet potato. On the next replace the rice with a baked
russet potato (with skin). The following, get the pre-prepared salad bags and make
a chicken salad and this time instead of the rice, pick a fruit (bananna, apple,
orange) for your carb meal. See where I am going.
How you train now will be a base for future development. If your already having
back problems at this stage because of scoliosis then you are already in deep
trouble. Once on AAS your strength and lean tissue goes up, but your weak links
remain even more vulnerable. Find new exercises now, that do not cause discomfort
and pain. Work on that mind muscle connection. For example I've looked at your
training protocol and I find holes with multiple key exercises missing. Lets use
back as an example. You posted an impressive dead-lift video. Form was very good!!!
BUT, if your having back issues already where are ALL the other important back
exercises like dumbbell rows, cable rows (with different attachments and angles) ,
pullovers, pull-downs, pull ups on every back day. Each back day should have a good
selection, including deads if your back can remain injury free. The reality is, at
some point you may have to give up on deads and squats. Sometimes I see you do one
or two exercises for a major body part. At this point now should have one day
dedicated to a major group. Chest gets only a chest day, shoulders and traps get
their own day. You will not build that beast with such a narrow selection of
exercises and foods. This is your time to learn them all. Put it all together for a
good routine that keeps you injury/PAIN free and feeling great!!!
You cannot define your genetics yet, as at this point you do not know how you will
respond to AAS. For all you know, you could be that hyper-responder. Time will tell
how genetically blessed you may or may not be......
I have that gut feeling with you, that over time you will surprise us all. Take
time to enjoy the journey.
DrX
Honestly thank you so much for the deep and thoughtful response. I truly appreciate
it!
It's already cool to see that I have already begun to incorporate some of your
suggestions into to my lifestyle already. I have begun to vary my food choices.
I've went back to a less-strict flexible dieting strategy and have found new foods
that are whole, nutrient-filled, and make me feel great (almond butter has been my
most recent love) as well as have started to figure out what foods don't fit me
very well (whole wheat english muffins...).
In regards to my training I do agree that I need to be a little more adventurous in

my exercise choices. Ever since I started lifting weights, I've been told that the
bulk of my training should revolve around bench presses, squats, and deadlifts.
While I know those are important exercises, I also am starting to learn that they
are not the be-all end-all for everyone. I'll definitely be starting to add in more
excises and trying new things and seeing how they work with my body.
In regards to the way that I track my progress, I've always been a guy who wakes up
in the morning, weighs himself and takes a picture. I've been doing this ever since
I was a fatty trying to slim down. For some reason it just gets me in the mindset
that I am working to continue and make progress. I used to get extremely frustrated
by the lack of day to day progress, but now I think since I have accepted it as
fact and that there's nothing I can do to change it, I've become less emotionally
invested in the way I look each morning. Now I want to take all the pictures and
make huge slideshow showing a daily transformation over the course of who knows how
many years. Sort of like this but with my physique
I do know I have a problem when it comes to setting lofty goals that are hard to
hit as a natural. I do need to stop doing that and simply enjoy what I'm doing.
With both the pictures and the goals it's hard because I like to know that I am
making at least some sort of progress or at least not regressing and without
measurements it feels like I'm losing control of that. I'm going to really focus on
working on just enjoying the ride a lot more. I'll get there eventually once I'm
ready (although I still don't know when that is going to be) I'll add in hormones
and then the real fun begins.
Once again thanks so much for the response, I really appreciate it.
DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #423 on: April 25, 2014, 01:54:15 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: jmattsen on April 23, 2014, 03:24:05 AM
Hello Dr. X,
Hello Jmat!! First right off the bat let me congratulate you on being able to diet
down to incredibly low body fat levels. It tells me a couple important things. One,
you do not have as bad of genetics as you think. Your abs at your lowest point do
not have unequal fat distribution. That is great news. Second, you did this with no
assistance from AAS or any other stimulant. You know how to diet naturally. Most do
not!!!!! You have an advantage over others. Third, you have great attitude/will
power and can stick to goals.
Now we can address some issues that I see will hold you back from becoming the best
you can. And I want to see you THRIVE!!!!!
What I am about to say will help alleviate some emotional crutches which should
help redefine your goals and accomplishments. First things first, you are NATURAL.
As such why do you put so much emphasis into goals that are not obtainable by most
naturals. This is a bodybuilding site geared to those who make changes to their
physiques because they are on AAS, insulin, gh etc...... You need to understand
posting pictures of yourself daily will only add to your frustrations. YOU WILL NOT
SEE THE CHANGES OTHER DO BECAUSE YOU ARE NATURAL. So why torment yourself. You have
learned that when you diet without AAS, you will lose most or all of your muscle
tissue. Been there, done that many times myself as a natural!!!! You have also
learned bulking with no AAS will put a considerable amounts of fat on. So do not
compare yourself to others on this site.
Take a step back and ask yourself, what is the point of posting pictures day in and
day out when as a natural there will be very little to no changes to lean tissue.
Will your body change much because you missed a few days of training and pigged out
over the weekend? NO!!!!!!You will bounce back and forth between 147-155lbs,
regardless. Why worry?????
I have said this before, even to those ON globalage!!! Posting pictures day to day
or week to week will not accomplish anything. It takes months even years to see
solid progress, not days!!!!! Go back to page 10 on this thread and look carefully
at the pictures on the "dealer" writeup. How many years did it take that generation
to develop their ultimate physiques. This is what you want correct? It took them
decades, not weeks and they were juiced to the gills, and you are not. Enjoy the
time training as a natural, keep goals manageable. Put more emphasis on training
techniques and diet and enjoy your college life. This is the time to introduce new
exercises and foods. Experiment, you will need them when that time comes.
I am also very proud that your eating 5 meals over the course of the day and
cooking the majority of meals the night before. Now lets take a look at those 5
meals. Like you have read I like a diversity of foods during those five meals. You
only had chicken and rice. Eating that narrow of a selection due to a lack of
varied nutrients will hinder your progress. Instead of rice with every meal, prep a
different carb source of your choice. For example, on meal one replace equal
amounts of rice for a red sweet potato. On the next replace the rice with a baked
russet potato (with skin). The following, get the pre-prepared salad bags and make
a chicken salad and this time instead of the rice, pick a fruit (bananna, apple,
orange) for your carb meal. See where I am going.
How you train now will be a base for future development. If your already having
back problems at this stage because of scoliosis then you are already in deep
trouble. Once on AAS your strength and lean tissue goes up, but your weak links
remain even more vulnerable. Find new exercises now, that do not cause discomfort
and pain. Work on that mind muscle connection. For example I've looked at your
training protocol and I find holes with multiple key exercises missing. Lets use
back as an example. You posted an impressive dead-lift video. Form was very good!!!
BUT, if your having back issues already where are ALL the other important back
exercises like dumbbell rows, cable rows (with different attachments and angles) ,
pullovers, pull-downs, pull ups on every back day. Each back day should have a good
selection, including deads if your back can remain injury free. The reality is, at
some point you may have to give up on deads and squats. Sometimes I see you do one
or two exercises for a major body part. At this point now should have one day
dedicated to a major group. Chest gets only a chest day, shoulders and traps get
their own day. You will not build that beast with such a narrow selection of
exercises and foods. This is your time to learn them all. Put it all together for a
good routine that keeps you injury/PAIN free and feeling great!!!
You cannot define your genetics yet, as at this point you do not know how you will
respond to AAS. For all you know, you could be that hyper-responder. Time will tell
how genetically blessed you may or may not be......
I have that gut feeling with you, that over time you will surprise us all. Take
time to enjoy the journey.
DrX
* Bob Paris 1.jpg (64.7 kB, 297x475 - viewed 876 times.)

you."
TTT_ToTheTop
Junior
*
Posts: 36

� Reply #422 on: April 24, 2014, 03:52:10 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: TTT_ToTheTop on April 24, 2014, 06:20:47 AM
Man, you are hands down my favourite member on the board! What Im about to ask you
probably was beaten to death in a lot of threads but I want your opinion on the
subject. First Id like to mention that Im 19 years old, turning 20 next month. With
that being said Im kinda unsure if its not too early for me to hop on that "cruise
and blast" train. When I think about Ive done like 3 or 4 cycles with 2-3-4 months
between them and probably didnt "recover" from them but still its kinda scary. How
you decided that it was time for you to start b&c and if comfortable to answer- how
old were you?
Really looking forward to hear from you!
Cheers, brother!
Thank You TTT,
You have a question I feel I can add to and beyond for many others to learn from.
If you could, just copy paste the entire question and put it on the 70-80s thread.
I have one question to answer before yours and then ill get to it. Things are
incredibly busy right now. But your question is important enough because you are
not alone with this question and dilemma!!!
Thanks
DrX
Here we go DrX! I am really astonished just what great human being you are...my
deepest respect, sir!
jmattsen
Emperor
*****
Posts: 737

� Reply #421 on: April 23, 2014, 03:24:05 AM �
ReplyQuote
Hello Dr. X,

thewrongadvices
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 1870

� Reply #420 on: April 22, 2014, 08:26:16 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: thewrongadvices on April 18, 2014, 09:32:48 AM
DrX, this thread continues to deliver golden information, thanks.
So a question regarding guys that are not using gh, what do you consider high test
for an experienced fella who has tried most aas and knows how he responds to the
basics such as test, deca, dbol, adrol, etc?
Over the spring summer, my main compounds are going to be tren/eq as I need to gain
more experience with them and getting leaner will be my immediate goal. Later in
the year I will then return to the classic weapons of test/nand/dbol but am unsure
how to dose test without gh. Last blast I ran test at 600/week with up to 1200deca,
it worked well, but next time being leaner do you think using say 1gram of test
with similar nandrolone dose be a good idea?
Your genetic response to test with or without gh will be unique to only you and
only you based on your development. I have seen very experienced run test at 2G's a
week with no gh. And I have also seen those who can run only 500mg of test with GH.
If your were still gaining muscle and size running at 600/week of test and
1200/deca and it worked well, then begin there. This is your base. If your base is
still generating gains on your next blast and surpassing goals, KEEP IT THERE. No
reason to move it up. Once the stall begins start to nudge it up a bit. You may
also throw in orals in from time to time and see if your original base plus a few
orals keep the gains coming without any complications.
DrX
Thank you for the response DrX.

DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #419 on: April 21, 2014, 02:21:26 PM �
ReplyQuote
For those newer members who came in after the web site went down, I have gone
through and added back in a few more of the lost original pictures of both myself
and all the corresponding ones to each answer that was missing. The pictures do
drive home some of the important messages I wanted to get across...
DrX
you."
DrX
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*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #418 on: April 21, 2014, 02:06:36 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: thewrongadvices on April 18, 2014, 09:32:48 AM
Your genetic response to test with or without gh will be unique to only you and
only you based on your development. I have seen very experienced run test at 2G's a
week with no gh. And I have also seen those who can run only 500mg of test with GH.
If your were still gaining muscle and size running at 600/week of test and
1200/deca and it worked well, then begin there. This is your base. If your base is
still generating gains on your next blast and surpassing goals, KEEP IT THERE. No
reason to move it up. Once the stall begins start to nudge it up a bit. You may
also throw in orals in from time to time and see if your original base plus a few
orals keep the gains coming without any complications.
DrX
you."
doinitbig732
Junior
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Posts: 51

� Reply #417 on: April 18, 2014, 02:15:14 PM �
ReplyQuote
Thank you so much DrX that helps a lot. Maybe one day I'll share abdominal tips
with the famous Flex Wheeler! Haha. Good to know I do not have to worry however big
load off my shoulders thanks.
DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #416 on: April 18, 2014, 01:31:17 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: doinitbig732 on April 14, 2014, 01:42:39 AM
Hey DrX, just read this thread and wow you know your stuff. My concern is my
abdominals and I'm hoping you can help me here. Genetically, I have strong, defined
midsection. My abs are built like bricks and they are cut, however just big. I am
seeking advice on how to make them look smaller. Do I just have to make everything
else wider and thicker? Would AAS make this problem worse? I'm in a hole and I
don't know where to go. Please help!
Your corresponding pictures show a well developed base to begin your journey. I
have seen advice given to others who want to change the development or actual
structure of their abdominal muscles. Some have advocated VERY high rep movements
like twists and or other direct exercises to shrink down or over-train the
developed section. This is advocated while in a dieting mode. But what you have
really done is set into motion a change to the genetic structure of the muscle
tissue. Once the genetics have changed any small stimuli will cause an over-
response (growth) when back in the fed state.
My opinion is simple. If you do not want to develop your abs anymore, do not train
it directly. There is absolutely nothing you can do about structure.
Based on the pictures, you have the coveted and well sought after symmetrical 8
pack similar to Flex Wheeler. What you are not seeing at this point is that once
ON AAS, the development of the rest of your body will catch up and surpass your ab
development. This will occur over time.You will just need to be patient!!!!!!!
DrX
* flexEightpack.jpg (67.12 kB, 380x695 - viewed 406 times.)

you."
thewrongadvices
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*****
Posts: 1870

� Reply #415 on: April 18, 2014, 09:32:48 AM �
ReplyQuote
Boarding
Emperor
*****
Posts: 2029
GH15 South Africa


� Reply #414 on: April 17, 2014, 08:37:31 AM �
ReplyQuote
^^^ Smart way of thinking about things, thanks.
Henry Rollins
goku
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Posts: 2763

� Reply #413 on: April 17, 2014, 08:15:43 AM �
ReplyQuote
DrX i think you completely nailed it!
for the majority, higher test is needed imo to gain appreciable size. if not test
then other aromatizing compounds..even deca which is known to be estrogenic at the
a.r.
yea pros in the 70's often didnt use test but used mega nandrolone and dbol
instead. the common link here is probably estrogen but i think its more to do with
the fact that our body's are accustomed to testosterone being the major growth
promoting hormone and know how to use it for growth purposes more readily than
other compounds which differ chemically and maybe at cellular level as a
consequence.
the biggest ive been has always been with either test or deca as the main compounds
and i know virtually every pro today has used high test (seriously high!) in the
offseason to gain their mass.
guys who bloat, i was the same at one point. what worked for me was getting below
10% and the longer you use hormones the less sides you get.
i prefer to change things to keep from being in homeostasis. low test high tren, eq
(high dbol, drol for fullness) no gh, recomp blast.
then high test nandrolone but this time with gh for growth blast.
i think we need to keep cycling/changing our cycles as well as our training and
calorie intake to keep making progress and prevent stagnation. always being in the
same state (calorie-wise, training intensity/volume, gear use) will mean getting
the same results.
everything works but nothing works forever!
also, DrX i was told the exact same about haney's cycle by a trainer who was around
him at that time. he was apparently quite open about his use!

No man is my enemy,
Strength
Perseverance
Boarding
Emperor
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Posts: 2029
GH15 South Africa


� Reply #412 on: April 17, 2014, 07:10:11 AM �
ReplyQuote
Man Dr X is really coming through, thank you!
Related to your above post, what, in your opinion, is the maximum dosage that AAS
can be pushed before HGH is needed? Bearing in mind every body is different.
I reckon one can only keep bumping up his doses of the main players (test, deca,
dbol, adrol) before new muscle cells are required for receptor binding.
May be overthinking things here, just curious to hear your input as well.
Henry Rollins
DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #411 on: April 17, 2014, 03:20:52 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Dr Zeus on April 13, 2014, 02:14:57 PM
Drx,
What are your thoughts on test dosage when in a mass phase? I see some people keep
it low and use anabolics to grow others blast 1g+ with anabolics. I hate getting
moon faced and bloated from test wondering if it could be combated by using
anabolic a with moderate test, say 350mg.
Thanks!
As I have mentioned in this thread, I have tried many and all approaches to test at
different amounts and ratios. Can you grow on moderate test and a high anabolic
ratio. Absolutely yes!!! But it depends on what your running with low test. The
other ultimate question is what are your goals thus your growth rate expectations.
The answer also really comes down to genetics and you ability to handle higher
doses of test over time. What I have learned and seen countless of times, the more
test you can handle the bigger you will be. In the beginning, many will not
tolerate the sides that came with high test amounts. The ratio of fat/muscle is
negatively skewed. This will change over time as lean tissue develops and
subcutaneous fat levels drop. The temporary cosmetic effects of the bloat are not a
big deal to many, as such will be comfortable running higher amounts. But this
comes down to which generation you many be from and your ability to let go. Today
it is all about keeping it tight and clean, at the expense of size and thickness.
There is nothing wrong with running low test/high anabolics if sides are worrisome
or unhealthy. Just temper your expectations.
One reality many forget this incredibly important fact when it comes down to size
and thickness. Many of the bodybuilders we've all admired built their frames either
on high test and or high amounts of the aromatizing orals (Dbol/Adrol). Or in
reality a combination of both. In the 70's it was high orals, past the 80's and it
was high test. I can't tell you how many PM's come in with the same issue. DrX, I
am on tren, primo, mast, anavar etc..... and I am not happy with the results. I
relatively look the same year after year. What do I do? Sometimes I have to pound
the table to get this across, but compounds like tren work well with HIGH amounts
of exogenous INSULIN AND TESTOSTERONE present. Which also require GH too. If your
running tren without insulin don't expect to look like a bodybuilder from the 70's
let alone any generation. You will look more like a fitness competitor. You will
need a combination from 4 Horseman and lots and lots of it over time.
A special thanks to Goku for finding this gem below. It is the outline of GH15's
old-school cycle. Notice a couple of key points. 1) The amounts of test and
aromatizing orals. 2) When compounds such as primo, halo and tren are used. 3) The
need for insulin at that level.
Just in case you are not aware Omna and testex are testosterones. Omna, is a blend
like sustanon with 4 different esters. The bloat the original omna would give was
incredulous. Over time though omna's esters became identical to sustanon. I believe
testex was test enenthate at 250mgs. That is three amps or approximately 700mgs of
test a day!!!!!!
"here is my doses the way they used to be at the highest
omna or infars 1-2 amp per day

testex elmu or testoviron 1 amp per day
nanrolone decanoate 600-1200mgmg a week
equipose 600-1200mg a week
dianabol - about 10-20 tablets a day = 50-100mg a day (anadrol when changing diet
to lower calories)
hgh 15-25units a day depends on timing (days i was awake 13 hours i used less
...days i was awake 18 hours used more
insulin - forget about it you wont believe ,,did not use insulin on a regular basis
and used it short term since i only wanted it at specific times of the year
primobolan whenever i got it from turky - 1200mg a week only on calorie restricted
diet
halotestin from mexico on prep at 30-40mg a day legit halo!
trenbolone i only used when it was done by specific person that many ifbb get it
from since he uses real pelets and not the chinease poweder crap 100-150mg a day
also for short period of time
nolvadex ,,aromasin,,letrozole,,usually 1 -3 mg every day or every other day

depending wether bulking or preping
now you do the math ,,there are many guys PROFESSIONALS AND AMATUERS THAT CAN ONLY
MAINTAIN 300LB OF QUALITY OR DECNENT QUALITY WITH 10GRAM WHICH = 10000MG OF AAS AND
RELATED HORMONES,,infact i know no one who can maintain 300lb at 5'10 with good
condition on less than 5-6 grams of aas"
Many years ago I got a chance to correspond with an insider who had a good idea of
what Lee Haney was running during his career. I don't like posting these
hypothetical and possible quite inaccurate cycles, but the amounts and key
compounds were identical to what GH15 was running. It was actually a very simple
cycle ran 85% of the year. It was 2 amps of Sustanon per day, 200mg of deca a day
and 200-300mg of Adrol/day. The cutting AAS were ONLY brought in closer to contest
time. There was insulin and GH use but the amounts were never mentioned nor
disclosed. I could only approximate.
DrX
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DrX
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� Reply #410 on: April 15, 2014, 02:18:13 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: phatkat on April 12, 2014, 03:24:22 PM
Quote from: ironraider on April 06, 2014, 02:25:51 PM
Great points DrX! Would you agree then that weight isn't the priority as much as
form/feel? Maybe not on dead lifts, but one arm rows, bent over rows, cable
movements?
Last week I was doing bent over rows in the smith machine, just for something
different, to take out any swing, and just to get more into a more "mechanical"
movement. When I was light and going through my warmup, of course using
lightweight, I noticed a contraction that I hadn't felt before.
I was in a more or less 45 degree angle, not "bent over", bring the bar to my lower
ab area, but something in my head told me to rotate my shoulders/scapula area back
and down...I can't really describe it more than that...I guess you would have to
"feel" it more than anything...but I did that while doing the exercise. It changed
the feel completely, and I liked it....A LOT.
Now, there is simply no way I could maintain that feel going heavy...I tried, and
lost it straight away...back out 50 lbs off the bar and there is was again. The
next morning, my back in my middle/upper lat area felt great. I never would have
"found" it had I just been slinging the weight and going through the motion.
As you shared with DB rows...great advice!!
I also had a gym where once you proved yourself, you were also educated on all the
complexities of how to train. I was actually taught how to squat by a female power-
lifter, named Darlene. She took her time to teach me the subtle but very important
differences between the power-lifter squat and the bodybuilder squat. You were
taken under the wings of someone for each body part. You were also immediately
taught the reverence for the weight room and the equipment. No slamming of the
weight, as they were delicate and irreplaceable. Once something broke, it literally
took 3-6 months before it could be fixed. Remember there were no other gyms in the
immediate area, so the need to share and care for equipment was paramount. It was
truthfully a fantastic and intimate environment to learn and grow. Today it is ONLY
about AAS/Slin/Gh. There seems to be a vacuum about what I consider to be the other
most important elements of bodybuilding, training and diet.
DrX
if you could embellish on this its very appreciated (if you already went into
detail on it, ill have to read back)
I have a lot of powerlifting buddies that have helped me with my squat tremendously
but im still trying to find the right footing to really hit my legs the way i want
them.
ive recently been front squatting quite a bit, just destroys my quads
but i did lowbar for a time and just dont know whats optimal
individual needs ofcourse play a roll, i have a strong deadlift so i try to have a
quad dominate squat
to balance
anyway thats just my useless rant
would love to hear what you have to say on the subject
To start the power-lifter squat is not designed for maximal muscle development, but
for maximal leverage and power. Their ultimate goal is very different from ours.
They want to move X weight from point a to point b. We on the other hand want to
target that X weight onto a specific muscle. They need the assistance of other
groups of muscle to become activated in order to lever that weight up. We want the
other groups of muscle to be disengaged. So the power-lifter stance will have a
very wide foot placement, the bar will sit lower on the traps, and the tilt will be
exaggerated downward to bring maximum leverage through the hip flexors and glutes.
The lift is initiated with the hips so that the shins stay perpendicular to the
floor. Again, this reduces the load on the quadriceps and maximizes the
contribution of the hamstrings, glutes, lower back, and hip flexors.
As mentioned in previous discussions, the bodybuilder squat begins with where you
grip the bar. The closer you can to the shoulders, the higher the traps can
contract, the higher the bar sits. Your elbows point down, and remain down. Your
chest and chin is high and remains high. This gives a the squat a more erect
movement that will minimize (not eliminate) other body parts from assisting. Your
stance will be about shoulders, depending on your ability to plant your feet AND
KEEP YOUR FEET PLANTED, either strait forward or at a 15 degree angle.
Here are a couple more video explanations of how we were both taught how to squat.
On the second video, the only thing I will add is his grip. He could technically
move his grip in just slightly, and keep his elbows down further.
Remember on a final note, as bodybuilders you keep the load in motion. There is no
stopping at the top. Always remember the car piston!!!!
DrX
* squat-variants.jpg (26.04 kB, 500x324 - viewed 509 times.)

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doinitbig732
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� Reply #409 on: April 14, 2014, 10:23:08 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: fluery on April 14, 2014, 12:07:03 PM
DrX Thank you for such an in-depth answer - I'm glad my question was able to
provoke it. I am very aware of how different grips emphasize different parts of the
back; I just need to experiment more to find the right grip for what I want, and
here your response was helpful. I do actually like the big trap look, but since I
know they are particularly sensitive to elevated hormone levels, I'd rather nip the
proportion "problem" in the bud before it gets to the point where it's like "great
back, but needs to bring up lats compared to traps" or whatever.
@doinitbig - could you post a pic? I'm not sure if you mean your abs are big so
your waist is bigger than you want, or if you're talking about the actual abdominal
development itself. If it's the former, I'm guessing a diet change would help bring
your waist in at least a bit - either fewer calories, different types of food for
less bloat, more fats and less carbs, etc.
i'm concerned about my actual abdominal development. I'm in fear my abs are grown
in thicker than the rest of my body. I feel my chest, arms, and other muscles lag
behind my abdominal development. In the pictures you can see my rib cage is very
expanded which has its benefits but how do i make them smaller and everything
bigger in contrast to my abs? currently i am 5'11" at 205 lbs, i've never taken
gear yet. i would like to fix my problem first before I hop on. Somebody please
help??!! Thanks!
* image-1ne.jpg (905.48 kB, 1536x2048 - viewed 591 times.)
* image2ne.jpg (1560.74 kB, 2448x3264 - viewed 595 times.)

fluery
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� Reply #408 on: April 14, 2014, 12:07:03 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX Thank you for such an in-depth answer - I'm glad my question was able to
provoke it. I am very aware of how different grips emphasize different parts of the
back; I just need to experiment more to find the right grip for what I want, and
here your response was helpful. I do actually like the big trap look, but since I
know they are particularly sensitive to elevated hormone levels, I'd rather nip the
proportion "problem" in the bud before it gets to the point where it's like "great
back, but needs to bring up lats compared to traps" or whatever.
@doinitbig - could you post a pic? I'm not sure if you mean your abs are big so
your waist is bigger than you want, or if you're talking about the actual abdominal
development itself. If it's the former, I'm guessing a diet change would help bring
your waist in at least a bit - either fewer calories, different types of food for
less bloat, more fats and less carbs, etc.
doinitbig732
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� Reply #407 on: April 14, 2014, 01:42:39 AM �
ReplyQuote
Hey DrX, just read this thread and wow you know your stuff. My concern is my
abdominals and I'm hoping you can help me here. Genetically, I have strong, defined
midsection. My abs are built like bricks and they are cut, however just big. I am
seeking advice on how to make them look smaller. Do I just have to make everything
else wider and thicker? Would AAS make this problem worse? I'm in a hole and I
don't know where to go. Please help!
ironraider
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� Reply #406 on: April 13, 2014, 04:31:17 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX...what a great analogy with the Chef and Fluery's questions! I enjoy how your
mind works!
I have naturally large traps, which can be good for that "bull" power look. As
Fluery mentioned, that is great as long as you're able to also bring lat width and
thickness along with the traps.
You're answers, description, etc. were/are gold!
You sir are a huge asset to this community!
IR
DrX
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� Reply #405 on: April 13, 2014, 02:59:33 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: fluery on April 11, 2014, 03:03:49 PM
Since we're talking back training I have a question for DrX/who ever else. I feel
like I have very good mind muscle connection with my back, yet when I look at
pictures of my back, I feel my traps absolutely dominate my lats. Are there any
changes I could make to training to place less emphasis on the traps- since
obviously I must? I don't even train traps directly. Though I do feel them get
worked by side laterals and stuff.
I literally just took my shirt off in front of my webcam to take some pics to try
to show what I mean: 1) http://i.imgur.com/e8YL8OK.jpg and 2)
http://i.imgur.com/MbOUVfZ.jpg
It's like I can't get those deep back cuts on the lats that some guys have - I'm
pretty lean, maybe holding water since I've only been running 400mg test the last
few weeks, but don't think the reason is my body fat.
Thanks man, and great thread too - I read it every update, even though I usually
don't post in it.
The other day I was reading an article about the executive pastry chef at the White
House and his unexpected decision to leave (or quit). The story has been spun two
different ways depending on the source and their affiliation to certain parties.
But basically he quit because he as a traditionally trained chef he made desserts,
from key ingredients such as butter, milk, sugar. All the ingredients the First
Lady apparently did not want being served in the white house at all due to her
campaign for low fat foods and health. So what does this have to do with your
question. Well as a traditionally trained bodybuilder, full thick traps from the
back have been the pride of development. It always signifies power and masculinity.
Big back equates to big traps. They are tied into each other as pastry desserts are
to fats.
If I remember correctly you are a fitness competitor. As such I can see the need to
tone down certain body-parts that could hurt your placing. So how do you develop
the back while isolating traps? You had me thinking for a few days to come up with
an answer you could really use. And for those who want the opposite some tips on
how to develop your traps. The problem as you know is the traps assist and are part
of ALL pulling movements. You have even noticed traps are involved in side
laterals, and rightfully so. The first thing I teach my training partners is how to
minimize trap involvement in side laterals. This is done in two ways. First the
grip. You will have to use a thumb over (false) grip. Two, your elbow positioning
has to be perfect. Not too back or forward so the movement works on a correct line
of resistance.
I read your second response as to what exercises you train, which is key. Movements
like partial dead-lifts, reverse grip pull-downs, close grip v-bar pulls and rows
will develop the rear traps the most. The next logical question to what degree can
we isolate them. The honest answer is not much. There are a few exercises that can
be used which will focus the load on the outer upper and lower lats. This would
include exercises with your hands further apart, such as wide grip pull-downs, and
wide handle grip cable rows. When you move your grip closer together the greater
the involvements the traps will have. Take straight bar pull-downs as an example.
If you move your grip in closer toward the center and lean back just slightly you
have now moved the load to the center mid back-trap area. Move them further apart
and now you on mid-outer lats. A great example, use the long straight pull down bar
to do your cable rows instead of the V-bar. In the end, you will have to play with
grip spacing and equipment handles to determine where the loads fall.
I will guide you through with which grip I personally use for each exercise. My
wording may be different then yours so when I say false grip, I mean the thumbs are
on the same side of the bar as your fingers. A power grip, your thumbs wrap around
the bar. Note on a power grip push your thumb on top of your second finger for
support once wrapped around. Back exercises ALWAYS begin with the grip. You start
by gripping the attachment HARD before you begin. This creates a better environment
for the activation of the nervous system. Straps in my opinion should only be used
when you have mastered all exercises. Initially, you will not be able develop the
mind-muscle connection with straps on because the WHOLE palm is not in contact with
the handles. This is critical to understand!!!!
Use False Grip on:

1) Pull downs or pull ups, both front and reverse.
2) Cable rows where the palms are facing each other.
3) Cable rows where the palms face down. (example long pull down straight bar)
3) Bent over rows where the palms are facing your thighs.
4) Pullovers done with the overhead cable with straight bars.
Power Grip:
1) Dead lifts.
2) Flat bench dumbbell rows
3) All high pull machine based movements because the handles are at variant
degrees.
DrX
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Dr Zeus
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� Reply #404 on: April 13, 2014, 02:14:57 PM �
ReplyQuote
Drx,
What are your thoughts on test dosage when in a mass phase? I see some people keep
it low and use anabolics to grow others blast 1g+ with anabolics. I hate getting
moon faced and bloated from test wondering if it could be combated by using
anabolic a with moderate test, say 350mg.
Thanks!

phatkat
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Posts: 1163
6'2 ~225

� Reply #403 on: April 12, 2014, 03:24:22 PM �
ReplyQuote
movements?

DrX
if you could embellish on this its very appreciated (if you already went into
detail on it, ill have to read back)
I have a lot of powerlifting buddies that have helped me with my squat tremendously
but im still trying to find the right footing to really hit my legs the way i want
them.
ive recently been front squatting quite a bit, just destroys my quads
but i did lowbar for a time and just dont know whats optimal
individual needs ofcourse play a roll, i have a strong deadlift so i try to have a
quad dominate squat
to balance
anyway thats just my useless rant
would love to hear what you have to say on the subject

"you body build to live. never live to body build" - Smoofcat
they woudnt ever call it TRAIN i
f they were not on hormones,, anyone who goes into the vocabulary and uses the word
train as in consider himself an ATHLETE ..will stop at absolutely nothing to get
better,,
fluery
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Posts: 2088


� Reply #402 on: April 12, 2014, 12:38:01 PM �
ReplyQuote
Back routine is pretty standard - usually a few sets of pull ups to failure, then
moderate weight with more volume on lat pulldowns, cable rows, t-bar rows, barbell
rows, and pullovers. Not all those exercises every time, usually like 2 of them. I
can connect really well with my lats, like I can make them "dance" really easily.
I'm not DRX my man, but this is my understanding of how you could bring up your
lats...btw your traps don't dominate them IMO they're just very thick, what kind of
routine do you use?
I would switch a lot of movements to underhand grip, the reason for this is that it
seems to help me activate my lats a lot more and create a better MMC, for me at
least. If your gym has a low row hammer str I would recommend using that too...
I find that ^ machine to bring my traps too much into it however, as you pull
almost up and end up engaging rear delt/trap muscle inadvertently....I prefer the
"flat plane" machines. I keep the seat quite high up, the top of the pad comes to
the bottoms of my pecs and I use an underhand grip, I try and "wrap" my elbow
around my back and slightly twist my torso to get a better contraction constant
tempo with a seconds squeeze at the top, one hand at a time, this really, really
helped to bring a long my lats my man...I realise that I have not explained this
very well at all so feel free to PM me or reply in here and I will get back to you
when I'm not on my phone and give you a more coherent answer.
doinitbig732
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� Reply #400 on: April 11, 2014, 03:13:17 PM �
ReplyQuote
great information here!!
fluery
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� Reply #399 on: April 11, 2014, 03:03:49 PM �
ReplyQuote
Since we're talking back training I have a question for DrX/who ever else. I feel
like I have very good mind muscle connection with my back, yet when I look at
pictures of my back, I feel my traps absolutely dominate my lats. Are there any
changes I could make to training to place less emphasis on the traps- since
obviously I must? I don't even train traps directly. Though I do feel them get
worked by side laterals and stuff.
I literally just took my shirt off in front of my webcam to take some pics to try
to show what I mean: 1) http://i.imgur.com/e8YL8OK.jpg and 2)
http://i.imgur.com/MbOUVfZ.jpg
It's like I can't get those deep back cuts on the lats that some guys have - I'm
pretty lean, maybe holding water since I've only been running 400mg test the last
few weeks, but don't think the reason is my body fat.
Thanks man, and great thread too - I read it every update, even though I usually
don't post in it.
Boarding
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Posts: 2029
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� Reply #398 on: April 10, 2014, 06:51:07 AM �
ReplyQuote
Soaking up everything I can in here.
I've been using very very light weights with perfect form and the changes I have
seen have left me smiling to say the least. My workouts are very intense and the
pumps = unreal. Working on mastering a few key exercises per bodypart while SLOWLY
increasing weight over time without sacrificing form. A few heavy sets thrown in
here and there when I feel up for it.
Henry Rollins
ironraider
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Posts: 774


� Reply #397 on: April 10, 2014, 12:13:18 AM �
ReplyQuote
movements?
Ironraider, you hit on something very very important about training back. The
problem with back is that you cannot see it contract such as biceps, thus your
imagination and understanding of mind and muscle connection must be developed on
all lifts. Just moving and throwing the weight around will not work for most. The
best way to describe training back is like trying to hit a nail with a hammer while
blindfolded.
Over the many years of training prior to the internet, I was addicted to reading
all the muscle magazines. There were four main ones: Flex, Ironman, Muscle Media,
and Musclemag. I would read each and everyone cover to cover every month,
especially cluing in on the training articles. I probably read well over a 1000 of
them. They had some really good writers back in that day, and every once in a while
you would get a gem that would transform your thought process on a specific body
part. All those writers are gone, so I no longer bother to read them. But I must
admit they were informative at that time.
Well in one of the articles, by whom I can not remember, was a piece on training
back. The author was very blunt about the approach to maximizing development on
this hard body part. He as in Ironraider, stated you must be able to feel each and
every rep, and to be able to focus the load to the SPECIFIC muscle you are trying
to isolate. So in other words you must also know WHERE on your back do you want to
target the load (think nail and hammer) with each and every different exercise. Say
your performing cable pull downs, palm facing forward, where on your back do you
target the contraction? Now, what if your doing cable pull downs, now with palms
backwards, where again do you target the contraction? And NO they are not the
same!!!!!!!!!!! This can only be done with light weight at first. Once over a
certain load you will not be able to control the weight. That gets translated to
other muscles taking over the stroke. So he advised to just start over. Take the
ego out for some time and relearn how to "swing that hammer" accurately and hit
that nail every time.
Over time, SLOWLY add in weight. But as weight goes up, your must pay attention to
the range of motion, and be able to feel and contract that back. If you cannot feel
that EXACT spot your trying to isolate the weight is to heavy. Over time you will
be able to get back to your original weight, depending on how good or bad the form
was to begin. I would advise to start with one exercise first. Changing all of them
is a bit much. Once you have mastered one, go to the next. What you will find out
is that there will be great carryover. Once you have mastered a few the rest come
on fast and easy.
DrX
I've gotta feeling I'm going to be visiting this thread a lot...love these talks,
reminds me of "back in the day"!
Thanks for sharing DrX...you and I have been doing this for a long time...I started
long before there was Muscle Media 2000, which at the time seemed to be a cutting
edge mag compared to M&F/Flex etc. Of course, after awhile that also changed.
The back is such a great body part to work...there are so many various components
that make up all the muscle groups, and as you shared DrX, changing your hand
position can make all the difference in the world. Which makes working that body
part the more enjoyable, because you can go with...hmmmm...I wonder if I did this
or that, how would that feel? BOOM! New exercise, new feel, new growth, more fun!
Granted, the back will take just as much energy out of you as doing legs because it
is a big body part, and doing one arms, dead lifts, partial dead lifts, t-bar rows,
meadow rows, bent over rows, hammer rows, etc. etc. will take it's toll...but crap,
when you see a guy with a thick back...shit...RESPECT.
As you mentioned, you have to go light or how else are you going to know what is
being worked? Sure, anyone can throw the pin in the bottom plate and pull a full
rack...big deal...actually, I saw this last week, and the guy who was in his 40's,
was at least was trying to make a big deal of it...I didn't even turn my head...he
looked like he just started training, and had that "look at me, look at me"
attitude....nooooope...sorry dude, you're a loser and I don't mean to be mean...but
facts are facts. Crap, off the beaten path...sorry....
We really need to check the ego at the door and go about this the right way...more
so as we get older. Hell...trust me, I moved heavy weight, and I had injuries.
After remapping my workouts...i have been injured due to working out in 2 yrs. My
intensity is there...my muscles are getting blasted...but the "feeling" is totally
different.
As usual Dr...great advice!

tronicus
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� Reply #396 on: April 09, 2014, 07:55:09 PM �
ReplyQuote
Just finished reading this whole thread, amazing read so much knowledge to absorb.
Where u said sometimes you come acrossed an article that changes your thought
process, this is exactly what this thread has done for me.
Appreciate the knowledge brother

Mkayy
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Posts: 2956

� Reply #395 on: April 09, 2014, 06:57:58 PM �
ReplyQuote
movements?
blindfolded.
on fast and easy.
DrX
Awesome, awesome post.
Since being here I've really started to pay attention to form a lot more, I now
feel I have the ROM and form down to contract my back in a way that stimulates a
lot more growth than previously...if, for some reason I cannot contract the back to
the standard required in a session I drop the weight right down and give it another
go, if it's not happening I switch exercises. One thing I have noticed is that the
pump you get when contracting the muscle correctly, constant tension etc is a huge
jump up from before, it feels my back literally doubles in size during the workout
(obviously this isn't true) but the sheer amount of blood you can force into your
muscle when putting "the mind in the muscle" and using slow and controlled form is
absurd.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel "full" range of motion is often not
needed. I get a much more intense contraction on seated hammer rows going all the
way back (i try and roll my elbow around my lat if that makes sense, keeping it
tight to the muscle) and then only 3/4 of the way back down, than I do if I use a
full ROM...however on DB rows I find a 1/2 second "hang pause" really helps to
stretch the muscle fibers and allows me to get a lot more out of movement than a
shortened ROM would.
I guess, in essence what I'm trying to say is you need to play around and find out
what works for YOU, we are all built differently and just because doing a movement
in one way, or indeed at all works wonders for one guy doesn't mean it will do jack
for you.
Interested in your opinion(s)....

DrX
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� Reply #394 on: April 09, 2014, 02:15:36 PM �
ReplyQuote
movements?
blindfolded.
on fast and easy.
DrX
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DrX
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� Reply #393 on: April 09, 2014, 02:06:02 AM �
ReplyQuote
DrX....love this thread bro...one of my favorites ever...your knowledge and how you
share information is EXCELLENT! I appreciate you taking the time to share your
insights and wisdom!!
My man thanks to you I may get the worst father award for 2014. So the other night
I FINALLY got a chance to sit to read your story on the Hell Angels and the
Outlaws. About two paragraphs into your story, I heard my wife screaming at me.
"The baby pooped and it has leaked all over his back. HELP ME QUICKLY, it is going
to get all over the linens and changing table"...
So what did this stand up father do?

I continued to read your story. I could not break away from it.
By the time I got to the other room, my wife was covered in baby poop. It was in
her hair, cloths, linens, etc...
Spent the next hour doing laundry....
Thank you..
P.S. For those who may have somehow missed Ironraider's thread, it is here in the
Top Pupil Q&A
DrX
Hey brother...thanks for the kind words...thank God our wives don't vote for the
Father of the year award! If that was the case, I'd never stand a chance!! Sorry
to hear that your wife was covered with baby poo...but we've all been there in one
degree or another. Having four daughters, I can totally relate!
My thread of course is more about my life and actual life happenings, you bring so
much detail to nutrition and training. There I times I read your posts and just
shake my head and wonder how much knowledge in your gray matter...pretty damn
amazing!
Keep doing great things and taking care of the baby, you'll always be her Father of
The Year! Funny, last night as I was putting my 8 yr old down for bead last night,
she gave me a big hug around my neck and told me I was the best papa in the world.
I smiled and kissed her on the cheek and told her how proud I was of her...just
being her.
On my way downstairs, I reflected on what she said, and all the wrong things that
I've done...raising my voice when maybe I shouldn't have or not being patient
enough etc...matters not to them...what matters to them is they know we love them
unconditionally, say we're sorry when do something wrong and love their mom and
treat her with kindness and respect. Those are the things they remember.
Create memories...that is all I'm trying to do...create memories. We only have a

so many turns around the sun. Give them memories to hold on to...make them
laugh...be stupid...who cares? When we're gone...and we all will be...how great it
would be as they're sitting somewhere and thinking of a moment...and laugh and
smile, or "remember when" comes up, because we took the moment to create that
memory. Funny thing is...you never know what memory will "stick".
Peace brother...live life well!!
I don't know what to say. I am speechless. Your actual life happenings have opened
your eyes to a deeper understanding of what love, sacrifice, humanity and grace
means. How may walk this earth blind?
Thank you!!!!
you."
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� Reply #392 on: April 08, 2014, 12:57:06 PM �
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Thank you..
Top Pupil Q&A
DrX
amazing!
being her.
Jesus... I honestly got goosebumps reading that. Hits home Raider.

My Log:
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� Reply #391 on: April 08, 2014, 12:24:56 PM �
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Thank you..
Top Pupil Q&A
DrX
amazing!
being her.

Amazing
Henry Rollins
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� Reply #390 on: April 08, 2014, 12:23:28 PM �
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Wow two great posters in this thread. LOL @ the baby poop story. IR's stories are
literally THAT good!
Henry Rollins
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� Reply #389 on: April 08, 2014, 12:20:48 PM �
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Thank you..
Top Pupil Q&A
DrX
amazing!
being her.


Boarding
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� Reply #388 on: April 07, 2014, 08:14:02 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Boarding on April 03, 2014, 06:12:34 AM
I've been sticking to piston style reps last few weeks and my workouts have been
very very intense with fantastic pumps. Dr X with back exercises do you feel it is
good to hold the back contracted for a second or two or stick to strict piston
style? Like rows or pulldowns where you squeeze for a second or two then slowly
descend on the negative,
Great question!! I see your thinking about the specifics. To train back you must
have a great imagination and mind-muscle link. The movements where I will use a
single arm, such as dumbbell rows, I contract the back for a fraction of a sec at
the top and control the negative all the way down. Now to a key, I will also allow
the shoulders to drop down just a bit at the bottom to get that all important
stretch. The stroke however is smooth, controlled and seamless. Both the
contraction and the stretch are equally important for maximum development.
Movements where both arms are used I will take a longer brief moment and squeeze
the back together HARD. I imagine holding a can of soda between my back muscles and
then crushing it with that momentary contraction. Outside of that brief moment the
bar or dumbbell is always in motion. There is no pausing or actual resting. I do
have an excellent training partner for back. On my last rep where I am at complete
failure and the movement stops he will push me past that final threshold into what
we call the darkness.
There are a couple other critical important factors to back development:
1) The grip. You need to know which grip to use for each exercise. A false or power
grip. The false grip will minimize bicep activation, but can only be used on
certain movements.
2) Your chest positioning. You will not be able to fully contract your back if your
hunched down. Your chest always needs to be high and up.
3) Shoulder rotation. This one is tricky to explain. To get that critical stretch
you must allow the shoulders to rotate out just a bit. But not so much the load
becomes dislocated. I'll see if I can find some videos for a better visual and
understanding.
DrX
Very stoked about your response! Cannot thank you enough sir. Feel free to expand
further if you would like, this is golden.
Henry Rollins
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� Reply #387 on: April 06, 2014, 02:36:10 PM �
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Thank you..
Top Pupil Q&A
DrX

you."
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� Reply #386 on: April 06, 2014, 02:25:51 PM �
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movements?

DrX
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� Reply #385 on: April 05, 2014, 02:07:13 PM �
ReplyQuote
Great question!! I see your thinking about the specifics. To train back you must
have a great imagination and mind-muscle link. The movements where I will use a
single arm, such as dumbbell rows, I contract the back for a fraction of a sec at
the top and control the negative all the way down. Now to a key, I will also allow
the shoulders to drop down just a bit at the bottom to get that all important
stretch. The stroke however is smooth, controlled and seamless. Both the
contraction and the stretch are equally important for maximum development.
Movements where both arms are used I will take a longer brief moment and squeeze
the back together HARD. I imagine holding a can of soda between my back muscles and
then crushing it with that momentary contraction. Outside of that brief moment the
bar or dumbbell is always in motion. There is no pausing or actual resting. I do
have an excellent training partner for back. On my last rep where I am at complete
failure and the movement stops he will push me past that final threshold into what
we call the darkness.
There are a couple other critical important factors to back development:
1) The grip. You need to know which grip to use for each exercise. A false or power
grip. The false grip will minimize bicep activation, but can only be used on
certain movements.
2) Your chest positioning. You will not be able to fully contract your back if your
hunched down. Your chest always needs to be high and up.
3) Shoulder rotation. This one is tricky to explain. To get that critical stretch
you must allow the shoulders to rotate out just a bit. But not so much the load
becomes dislocated. I'll see if I can find some videos for a better visual and
understanding.
DrX
* Mike Francois.jpg (94.3 kB, 550x387 - viewed 368 times.)

you."
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� Reply #384 on: April 04, 2014, 09:32:49 PM �
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DrX
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� Reply #383 on: April 04, 2014, 01:49:12 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Infamous1 on April 04, 2014, 03:32:35 AM
I appreciate your response. As I will be coming off contest prep, I probably won't
want the tren in there anyways at first. I do like lower tren e in, especially for
a longer period as I think it does work for me in bringing about better overall
quality to my physique. But I do think maybe a Deca/mast/test run would be nice
when coming off prep to bring back some decent thickness and some mental sanity.
I do agree that mental sides should always be important. Especially since bbing is
my hobby and not my career pursuit. Ratios I was more asking for any specifics like
issues with libido with Deca over a 2:1 ratio or any other observations you've
made. Dosing I also completely agree. My doses tend to be way less than most on
here because I simply believe in patience and consistency to milk out the gains.
Best thing for health and I think it forms a more proportional, dense physique.
Anyways, I do thank you for taking the time to respond.

I wish more people would think like you do. You have reverence and respect for your
body and AAS. I have run a very low test (200mg/wk) dose and a high deca cycle in
the past with no ill effects to libido, even ay my age. The problem was, I was not
happy with the results, so I have gone back to a much higher levels of test to deca
ratio. You will have to play around to see which combo and at what dose brings
about the changes you are happy with.
On a side note, when I talk about an offseason look from the past and letting go.
Here is an example of one of Gh15's favorite. The man with glasses. Don't get me
started on some of his form though.... :D
The "clinging" sound of the metal 45's hitting each other on that old video is like
music to my ears. These new plastic ones are pretty and easy to handle. But I
dearly miss the noise they made.
DrX

you."
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� Reply #382 on: April 04, 2014, 11:37:47 AM �
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Drx, another amazing post. Thank you so much for your insight brother.
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� Reply #381 on: April 04, 2014, 03:32:35 AM �
ReplyQuote
I appreciate your response. As I will be coming off contest prep, I probably won't
want the tren in there anyways at first. I do like lower tren e in, especially for
a longer period as I think it does work for me in bringing about better overall
quality to my physique. But I do think maybe a Deca/mast/test run would be nice
when coming off prep to bring back some decent thickness and some mental sanity.
I do agree that mental sides should always be important. Especially since bbing is
my hobby and not my career pursuit. Ratios I was more asking for any specifics like
issues with libido with Deca over a 2:1 ratio or any other observations you've
made. Dosing I also completely agree. My doses tend to be way less than most on
here because I simply believe in patience and consistency to milk out the gains.
Best thing for health and I think it forms a more proportional, dense physique.
Anyways, I do thank you for taking the time to respond.
Follow my journal as I prep to my first competition >
If comfortable, instead of PMs - post all questions in my log. I think it

encourages discussion and gets multiple perspectives. If you PM and I don't respond
in a week, then toss me another one.
DrX
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� Reply #380 on: April 04, 2014, 03:06:00 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Infamous1 on April 03, 2014, 04:19:39 AM
Making my way through the thread. Picked it up once and caught up, but now I have
bunch to catch up on again. After contest prep, I want to spend my offseason
getting back the basic building hormones and grow right. I've always had a thicker
physique and I want to continue with that. Probably will do a Deca/test run with a
sprinkle of tren e in there. At least personally, I find keeping a little tren
doesn't take away from the old school look as long as it's not your main compound
and run a good bit lower. Thinking something like 625 Deca/450 test/300 tren e. I'd
be interested to hear your thoughts on that kind of bulk. Would be starting at
5'11", 210-215 at 5-6% and run it for probably 20 weeks with maybe an oral tossed
in once or twice for 4-6 weeks. Especially would like to hear your opinion on
Deca/test ratios. I still have a fair amount of testing to do in this area because
I am just now having my first Deca experience and that's in the context of leaning
out.
Infamous1 and Boarding, this is for you. If you notice in the AAS hands on section
there is a lot of confusion as to what to run, how much and when. In many ways we
over think things and as such make it more complicated then it should be. You can
start if you like 50/50 ratio and add some extra test in and see how YOU respond.
Then back the test out and add in extra deca and see how YOU respond, look and
feel.
Is there a perfect ratio of test to deca? I don't believe so. That ultimately
depends on your goals and your ability to let go if you will. Lets take your
example of 625deca/450test. If it were say 625test/450deca, would you be able to
tell the difference. I can only speak for myself, but that ratio done either way
would not produce any changes to my physique. The point I want to make is that
ratios in the end will not take you to the next level of development. DOSES
WILL!!!!
Now to clarify, if you are still making gains on X dose and are responding in a
positive manner, KEEP the dose the same. Most are too quick to jump into more,
before their body is ready. If over time there is stagnation, new higher doses need
to be carefully looked into. X dose will only produce in the end a Y physique. X
dose +1 will over time produce Y+1 physique. Am I all in for blasting out of the
gate, absolutely not. But over time and as lean tissue develops the dose now
becomes the key. Your goal through your initial trials and errors of AAS are to
find out which compounds work well for you. You need to find those 4-5 that agree
with your body and health. For some it is only 3. Once you have found them the
truth of the matter is the more you use (up to a set point) the bigger you will
get. I do believe there comes a saturation point where extra doses do not produce
any more gains, but now create unwanted stress and sides for the bodies systems.
Now to the holy grail of compounds tren. Yes you can keep tren in there, and as you
said at lower amounts. I prefer to keep tren completely out of the growth phases. I
have used it numerous times before and have always recognized challenges that are
created to growth phase with it in there. Tren, wants to work in one way, and deca
and test want to work in other ways. It is like ying and yang, or a tug of war. I
can say tren is the single most powerful AAS I have ever used, Now, not in terms a
size and muscle development, but in terms of strength and dryness. I was stronger
on tren even with a total dose much lower back in the day. Today I am substantially
bigger and more muscular without tren, but no where near as strong. For the long
term health of my joints I will take more muscular and weaker, then stronger, dryer
and smaller. There is plenty of time to dry out. I have no need to look stage ready
365 days a year.
The other main reason I keep tren out of the during growth phases is the mental
side of the equation. During this time I really want to enjoy LIFE. Many have said
this, but you become a very different person on and off tren. Especially when used
for long periods of time. Life in ways gets viewed through a hazy stained window.
The simple enjoyments life brings are missed on tren for me personally. It is only
when you come off do you realize the changes. So this is the time I embrace
dinners, parties, social events. My true personality comes out.
How do I keep fairly dry with test and deca? Masterone!!!! My beloved masteone. The
things this silly little compound can do. I call it magic in a bottle. How much do
I use? 350-600mg a week depending on whether it is E or Di-Prop.
DrX
you."
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� Reply #379 on: April 03, 2014, 01:28:54 PM �
ReplyQuote
Very true
Henry Rollins
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� Reply #378 on: April 03, 2014, 01:09:40 PM �
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Infamous1 I would guess it has to do with how sensitive you are with test, but I'm
currently on a 2:1:1 ratio of Deca/Tren/Mast. Only 1 week in so keen to hear what
Dr X thinks.
Obviously gonna be individual, but I still enjoy to hear other's opinions

especially if they are experienced with a certain type of cycle. You can't run
their cycle tit for tat and expect the same results, but you can pick up helpful
tips or use their opinion to help better formulate your own plan.

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� Reply #377 on: April 03, 2014, 06:17:56 AM �
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Infamous1 I would guess it has to do with how sensitive you are with test, but I'm
currently on a 2:1:1 ratio of Deca/Tren/Mast. Only 1 week in so keen to hear what
Dr X thinks.
Henry Rollins
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� Reply #376 on: April 03, 2014, 06:12:34 AM �
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Henry Rollins
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� Reply #375 on: April 03, 2014, 04:19:39 AM �
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Making my way through the thread. Picked it up once and caught up, but now I have
bunch to catch up on again. After contest prep, I want to spend my offseason
getting back the basic building hormones and grow right. I've always had a thicker
physique and I want to continue with that. Probably will do a Deca/test run with a
sprinkle of tren e in there. At least personally, I find keeping a little tren
doesn't take away from the old school look as long as it's not your main compound
and run a good bit lower. Thinking something like 625 Deca/450 test/300 tren e. I'd
be interested to hear your thoughts on that kind of bulk. Would be starting at
5'11", 210-215 at 5-6% and run it for probably 20 weeks with maybe an oral tossed
in once or twice for 4-6 weeks. Especially would like to hear your opinion on
Deca/test ratios. I still have a fair amount of testing to do in this area because
I am just now having my first Deca experience and that's in the context of leaning
out.

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� Reply #374 on: March 28, 2014, 10:30:27 PM �
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Great info DrX thanks buddy ;)
Confucius
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� Reply #373 on: March 28, 2014, 08:53:11 PM �
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Amazing thread. Thanks for all the postings of great knowledge.
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� Reply #372 on: March 28, 2014, 03:16:53 AM �
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Quote from: Vitek92 on March 01, 2014, 04:55:22 PM
I've read through the entire thread 2 or 3 times over the last few days.
I've also created a note on my phone with all of the long posts/write ups from DrX.
What can I say? Amazing. I aspire to look like a 70s BB one day too and I realise
its going to be a long journey. However, I've accepted that AAS are for life so
that should give me plenty of time.
After reading everything DrX has said Ive decided to start implementing cardio in
my weekly routine. I will also be including more veggies on daily basis.
As far as hormones go I have little experience given my the relatively short time
I've been on but I already know the best compounds I respond to so far are test,
mast and dbol. Deca has been the number 1 hormone to me as far as changing my
physique and making me look like a bodybuilder but as I've posted in many other
threads I have an acne problem with it. But because of this thread I'm going up
give deca another go after summer and I will pin it ED + take more skin
precautions.
I have also decided to keep on getting lean until I hit lower %. I will also
embrace the water more and I will strive to go for more of a lean but full and
thick look.
So I would say this thread has been very influential. Thank you, DrX. I'm looking
forward to reading more!
Your very welcome. Do what you can today to keep yourself healthy for the future.
This requires planning and sacrifice. If it were easy then it would not be worth
it, and everyone would look alike. Who wants to look the same? I know I don't.
Hello Gatts!! I'll get to your question first because it creates severe confusion
especially among the newer generation of bodybuilders. How does a bodybuilder take
time off and come or GROW into shows? Kevein Levrone was the latest to accomplish
taking extreme time off and then showing up to Olympia's as good as prior showings.
The key words are "as good", NOT better.
What you must understand these bodybuilders who take time off have built a base,
OVER YEARS AND YEARS, of extremely dense tissue that has muscle memory. What is
muscle memory? Years of constant stress (weights) on muscle tissue causes permanent
structural changes to occur. As muscles become bigger, more muscle nucleus are
added by the cell to control its functions. Also the more AAS one takes the more
the nuclei gets added above the natural state. Muscle nuclei remains for a great
portion of the cells life, but does not stay around indefinitely. As one ages it
does become harder to maintain prior levels of tissue.
So if one is new to training and has not obtained a set amount of muscle mass and
nuclei, you CANNOT take time off and expect to grow past previous levels. You can
obtain your prior levels of tissue development, and will always come back to that
set point. Growing is a function of TIME ON AAS and training together. The longer
both occur the greater development of cell nuclei. As you stated some guys would
make the offseason the "healing"/rest phase to blow up through contest prep, or as
you put it, to relax a bit more. The reason they could do this was they reached a
desired set size, and could take time off and away. Muscle memory could carry them
into shows BACK TO THAT SET POINT, NOT BEYOND. Also we have to put things into
perspective, the athletes you mention were the cream of the crop when it comes to
genetics and response.
DrX
Glad to hear from you my friend! :)
I agree with your point 100% and i should have mentio the muscle memory aspect
too...
But don't you think even for begginers is benefictial taken breaks from gear? Not
for months of course but let's say 12 weeks on 4 off... or like Blp has described
before 8 on 3off. Dont you think once you get off you will respond better to cycles
than keeping on for long periods of time?
And the 250mg test cruising i'm not a believer of that... Fellas we were making
their gains on 2/3g gear/week coming to 250mg test... isnt it better jeust come off
everything?
How do you approach the time on/off on your early cycles?
all the best ;)
Gatts and Alex, I need to add some information to the above response and then I'll
get to yours.
One of the main reasons I became a big fan of GH15 was his outright defiance on
telling the truth on AAS doses, GH and insulin in modern and golden era
bodybuilding. Dose has a critical function to play when it comes to muscle memory.
If one takes time off and wants to obtain the prior set point of muscle mass, doses
of prior compounds need to be closely matched. What if you built your physique on
1000mg of test, 1000mg of deca, and a 1000mg of eq per week and were now attempting
a comeback after a layover on 300mg a week of each. Would muscle memory get you
back to that set point. NO!! Achieving your genetic ideal dose is the single most
important variable when it comes to bodybuilding. The second important variable is
the time kept at that dose.
We can use Ronnie Coleman as our example. He is in my opinion the greatest

bodybuilder to ever walk this earth, and in a bazaar way, I believe we will never
see that degree of TRUE structural muscle tissue ever again. Ronnie probably has
more muscle nuclie then any human alive today. Recent guest appearance pictures
show his body in a natural decline. Even with his genetics, the doses he is
currently on is not enough to saturate all the nuclei required to get all his
structural tissue back.
I know I am getting ahead of myself here, but some bodybuilders in the future may
be "bigger" then Ronnie, but in today's world, insulin and GH now play a different
roll. If we did a hypothetical cross-section of a bodybuilders limbs from the past
and compare them to today's best, my guess is that those from the past had
substantially more dry lean muscle tissue by weight verses what we see today. All
the synthol, and insulin has changed the ratio of structural tissue to storage
tissue (fat/glycogen/water). Imagine if you would two pieces of beef, one full of
red structural muscle and the other half full of fat and filler....
The picture below is an example of excessive and extreme synthol abuse. It shows
the destroyed muscular architecture over time and replacement of the muscle by
connective tissue.
Now to answer your question about time off. Taking time off is an extremely
personal decision, that will vary from person to person. Who is to tell you that
you MUST stay on year round. If you are able to take time off completely for
certain lengths of time and still make gains year to year YOU feel are appropriate
then do so. Will you respond better to future cycles with time off, than keeping
on for long periods of time? We had ample evidence in forms of pictures from the
golden era where they did take time off. Were they completely off everything and
for how long, I could not honestly say. But it worked for that generation. One
overlooked reason you must remember they used orals at does and for longer periods
of time then today's generation. This in-itself is very toxic to the liver. Today's
generation cycles the orals, and uses insulin in ways that can compensate for the
glycogen, and vaso-dialtion properties orals provide.
* synthol.jpg (122 kB, 710x587 - viewed 561 times.)

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� Reply #370 on: March 23, 2014, 03:33:03 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Gatts on March 22, 2014, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: DrX on March 22, 2014, 10:30:10 PM
Hey DrX!
Great posts as usual!
To be honest i didn't go search for the 2014 AC amateur but i'm very happy for this
Kang fella! True bodybuilding right there :)
Hope this starts to open eyes on the ifbb, even if it is at an amateur level...
It's from the bottom chenges start to get impact!
This is really an old school physique!

For the pics you have post this guys seems to be a follower of the old school
principles for offseason. Making the offseason the "healing"/rest phase to blow up
through contest prep...
Have heard so many stories of guys doing this from the 70's till 90's. Off season
was to relax a bit more. Don't get to fat, keep training intense but not so intense
and stay away from much of the drugs...
I know a guy that meets Samir a good 20 weeks before a Mr O contest and i couldnt
believe it was really Samir! He said he was probably 180/185lbs skinny fat... After
20 weeks BoOM! 205/210lbs dry to the bone with striations everywhere...
Phil Hernon said that 25 weeks before wining the Nationals (I think it was 1995) he
weight 217lbs end up on stage at 238lbs lol that means something...
Arnold was know to get small in offseason too... no pics of him while off ;)
Everybody knows how Kevin did it for the last Olympias he competed in, and should
have won on 2002...
Another guy that seems to be doing the same type of offseason approach is David
Hoffmann, Check out this videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN7cKagrUTE
This was David after 2011 AC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Eu-KC_9Dak
Here is David in 2012. He didnt compete that year. And as you can see is off year
was not properlly applied to blow up...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFIu2ds004U
And here is David competing at 2013 AC Europe. He really improves since 2011 for
sure!
So what are your thoughts on issue DrX?
DrX
too...
everything?
all the best ;)
Right on point as always DrX!

Gatts...my question for Drx it s almost like urs...and i will give my body like an
example here
I compete in Classic Bodybuilding division and we have a weight limitation....at
1.81 m tall i can weight max 89 kg on stage
So....the question for DrX is: u think it s better for me to not take time off till
i will reach my maximum size for Classic Bodybuilding or i can implement time off
in my regimen?
And if yes....how u think i should do it?
Thx!!!
This thread is AWESOME!
Road to Classic Bb Balkan Championship - http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?
topic=29410.0
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� Reply #369 on: March 22, 2014, 11:06:08 PM �
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Hey DrX!

have won on 2002...
sure!
DrX
too...
everything?
all the best ;)

Confucius
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� Reply #368 on: March 22, 2014, 10:30:10 PM �
ReplyQuote
Hey DrX!

have won on 2002...
sure!
DrX
you."
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� Reply #367 on: March 22, 2014, 01:36:59 PM �
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Hey DrX!

have won on 2002...
sure!

Confucius
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� Reply #366 on: March 20, 2014, 06:52:07 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: DrX on March 20, 2014, 02:33:36 AM
Quote from: Diluted56 on March 17, 2014, 11:55:20 AM
Quote from: animal23 on February 22, 2014, 03:41:17 PM
What you say about cuts in the legs, would be a matter of high reps as gh15 talks
and estrogen?
Always trained heavy leg and after stumbling upon gh15, started doing high reps for
legs and slightly improved in cuts, but feel it "retained" yet even with low bf.
Do you think this would be more linked to estrogen, will start exemestane 12.5 mg
e3d to control.
Cuts in the legs actually come down to body fat percentage and MUSCLE MATURITY. You
will only see cuts when your down below 7% or so for most and feathering comes
under 5%. Once below that threshold of body fat, cuts and deep striations only
develop over time as muscle tissue hardens and expands. This does NOT come on early
for most!!!!!!!!!!!! Its takes many many years of constant AAS use to develop
this!!!!!!!
Yes estrogen has a role with water retention, but when your that low in BF, your
estrogen is well controlled by the AAS choices and DOSES your using and have
experimented with over time that agree with your body. As I have explained in
earlier answers, since have never used or am interested in using any of the overly
powerful anti-estrogen cancer compounds, I would not be able to comfortably answer
any question outside of Nolvadex. It is my only tried and true go-to solution.
The other reality to deep cuts and feathering is a hard truth, they only come for
very short periods of time. Some never get it. In other words a snap shot in time
lasting for a day to a week, depending if all conditions line up. This is usually
when diuretics come into play to remove that last thin layer of water.
DrX
DrX in regards to Nolvadex dosing what would you recommend in terms of keeping a
healthy level of estrogen in the body?
I've been using test and deca for the better part of a few months and recently have
gotten bloods back. Only markers of importance are slightly raised E2 and
Prolactin. Not outside the 'normal range' just in the middle-to-upper digits of the
scale.
I do have letro, adex, clomid and nolvadex on hand. I haven't ran any other than my
very first cycle where I used a bit of adex. Otherwise I have been perfectly fine I
would just like to bring my estro and prolactin down a little bit.
If you have any advice I would greatly appreciate the response.
Fan of your thread and work by the way :)
I have a confession to make. I have never really checked my estrogen levels. I have
always been more interested in other markers such as blood cholesterol carrier
levels, blood pressure, glucose sensitivity, and liver stress levels. Estrogen
levels to me personally, have not been of that importance over the years mainly
because I grew up in an era where a little extra amounts of estrogen did a body
good. What do I mean by that, well we insensitively knew that estrogen was one of
the keys to a thick physique. Actually we were instructed to keep estrogen blockers
to a bare minimum if at all possible. According to the theories back then, blockers
stifled growth. If estrogen became a problem you would simply back off doses or
change compounds. If that path did not work and estrogen based gynecomastia became
problematic, it was then time for surgery.
I remember the first time I saw my first pro in his true off season form. It was
Lee Labrada prior to one of his Olympians on a recorded poor quality VHS video tape
(old school) for a training seminar. He was wearing a tank top, and the famous 90's
short shorts. Don't hate on us, it was either that or a Gold's sweat shirt cut
across the neck, low enough to expose your traps and upper chest. Lee was the guy
KNOWN for his top notch conditioning, but we NEVER saw what he looked like in-
between contests. On that video he took bloated to another level and THEN SOME.
There was sacks of water under the eyes. We called it the MOON face back in the
day. Loaded to the gills on the FOUR HORSEMAN: Test/deca/dbol/adrol. You could not
see an ounce of muscle on his frame. The video if I recollect was on arms. As he
demonstrated tricep push downs you could not differentiate his shoulders from his
triceps as it was one big, smooth sack of thick hidden muscle mass. If that VHS was
around today, Lee would have been taken to the wood shack and hung from his toes,
and then burned at the stake especially by the fitness crowd.
But again the simple question gets asked, why were the competitors from that era
lighter in body weight but were twice as thick. Describing "thick" is hard term to
objectify. Unless you have seen this in person. I am not talking about narrow as in
Phil Heath, but the three dimensional view when they are turned to the side.
On a related side note the winner of the 2014 Arnold Classic Amateur was the very
unknown Kang Kyung from South Korea. His physique purely reminds me of the 80's-
90's look, thick hard with the famous V taper most competitors had during that era.
What is surprising is his age and weight. He was born in 1973 and weighed 198lbs
the day of that competition. When reviewing the footage of the contest, it seemed
to me all the other competitors had that new era lean narrow insulin/tren look to
them. He really stood out. So the question I asked myself based on his age and
weight, was he part of the old view of classic off season growth protocols? The
picture taken below is just a snap shot in time. He is clearly not at that point
and time in the "grow lean" camp. But things could have changed.
This is one of the reasons I ask to start your growth phases from a lean starting
point. The lower amounts of both visceral (intra-abdominal) and subcutaneous fat
levels one has determines to a large degree the side effects brought on by
estrogen. For example one very serious misunderstanding of estrogen and its effects
on adiposity are that estrogen increases fat gain or retards fat loss, when in
effect the opposite is true. This is especially true when TESTOSTERONE is present.
When testosterone is low or not present, estrogen can then under those
circumstances create problems. Estradiol (E2), is probably a more effective fat
loss aid than is testosterone. Estradiol can also prevent muscle loss, only in the
presence of testosterone, by blocking the low affinity glucocorticoid receptors
protecting against the effects of cortisol. This is why the top dogs ALWAYS have
testorerone in the stack at high levels especially when dieting. I will go into
more details of estrogen and its key rolls on a future date. I'll enlighten some
very interesting information on how estrogen works as the anabolic.
So to really answer your question, if you feel perfectly fine without blockers and
are just concerned with the bloating welcome the water my young Jeti, and embrace
the thickness, strength, and size it brings along. If you really have to use one
then I would suggest a small amounts of nolvadex (10mg/day). It is all I use
besides masterone when I am dieting, to aid in on the hardness.
DrX
DrX thank you so much for taking the time write this post. It really did answer my
questions and thoughts I was having in regards to estrogen. The piece you brought
up with estrogen's role in fat loss WITH testosterone in the system was really
interesting and I have never realized that before. When you meantion "growth phases
from a lean starting point" this is something I have always done instinctively and
it makes perfect sense in regards to gaining over time. I am not fat by any
standards I just had blood work done and my E2 was in the high range, not alarming
just something that has caused me interest in figuring out if its a bad or good
thing. I am perfectly fine without blockers and I don't mind the bloat at all. I
embrace and want that thickness, size and strength. This Jeti has learnt a lot, I
appreciate it :)
My Log:
Mkayy
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Posts: 2956

� Reply #365 on: March 20, 2014, 06:13:23 AM �
ReplyQuote
DRX. Amazing post my man, read it about three times...Everytime I come here I learn
something new, truly one of my favorite threads.
I'm sorry if you have already answered this, I'm sure you have.. Just point me in
the right direction and I will go and find it for myself. My question is in
regards to the "four horseman" and at what stages of development they were added
etc, if this indeed happened at all. In essence, was the general rule of thumb you
started off on just test, then added in an oral or deca, then upped the doses,
changed the stack? Was adrol and dbol often sacked?
Many thanks my man.

DrX
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� Reply #364 on: March 20, 2014, 02:33:36 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Diluted56 on March 17, 2014, 11:55:20 AM
and estrogen?
e3d to control.
this!!!!!!!
DrX
scale.
I have a confession to make. I have never really checked my estrogen levels. I have
always been more interested in other markers such as blood cholesterol carrier
levels, blood pressure, glucose sensitivity, and liver stress levels. Estrogen
levels to me personally, have not been of that importance over the years mainly
because I grew up in an era where a little extra amounts of estrogen did a body
good. What do I mean by that, well we insensitively knew that estrogen was one of
the keys to a thick physique. Actually we were instructed to keep estrogen blockers
to a bare minimum if at all possible. According to the theories back then, blockers
stifled growth. If estrogen became a problem you would simply back off doses or
change compounds. If that path did not work and estrogen based gynecomastia became
problematic, it was then time for surgery.
I remember the first time I saw my first pro in his true off season form. It was
Lee Labrada prior to one of his Olympians on a recorded poor quality VHS video tape
(old school) for a training seminar. He was wearing a tank top, and the famous 90's
short shorts. Don't hate on us, it was either that or a Gold's sweat shirt cut
across the neck, low enough to expose your traps and upper chest. Lee was the guy
KNOWN for his top notch conditioning, but we NEVER saw what he looked like in-
between contests. On that video he took bloated to another level and THEN SOME.
There was sacks of water under the eyes. We called it the MOON face back in the
day. Loaded to the gills on the FOUR HORSEMAN: Test/deca/dbol/adrol. You could not
see an ounce of muscle on his frame. The video if I recollect was on arms. As he
demonstrated tricep push downs you could not differentiate his shoulders from his
triceps as it was one big, smooth sack of thick hidden muscle mass. If that VHS was
around today, Lee would have been taken to the wood shack and hung from his toes,
and then burned at the stake especially by the fitness crowd.
But again the simple question gets asked, why were the competitors from that era
lighter in body weight but were twice as thick. Describing "thick" is hard term to
objectify. Unless you have seen this in person. I am not talking about narrow as in
Phil Heath, but the three dimensional view when they are turned to the side.
On a related side note the winner of the 2014 Arnold Classic Amateur was the very
unknown Kang Kyung from South Korea. His physique purely reminds me of the 80's-
90's look, thick hard with the famous V taper most competitors had during that era.
What is surprising is his age and weight. He was born in 1973 and weighed 198lbs
the day of that competition. When reviewing the footage of the contest, it seemed
to me all the other competitors had that new era lean narrow insulin/tren look to
them. He really stood out. So the question I asked myself based on his age and
weight, was he part of the old view of classic off season growth protocols? The
picture taken below is just a snap shot in time. He is clearly not at that point
and time in the "grow lean" camp. But things could have changed.
This is one of the reasons I ask to start your growth phases from a lean starting
point. The lower amounts of both visceral (intra-abdominal) and subcutaneous fat
levels one has determines to a large degree the side effects brought on by
estrogen. For example one very serious misunderstanding of estrogen and its effects
on adiposity are that estrogen increases fat gain or retards fat loss, when in
effect the opposite is true. This is especially true when TESTOSTERONE is present.
When testosterone is low or not present, estrogen can then under those
circumstances create problems. Estradiol (E2), is probably a more effective fat
loss aid than is testosterone. Estradiol can also prevent muscle loss, only in the
presence of testosterone, by blocking the low affinity glucocorticoid receptors
protecting against the effects of cortisol. This is why the top dogs ALWAYS have
testorerone in the stack at high levels especially when dieting. I will go into
more details of estrogen and its key rolls on a future date. I'll enlighten some
very interesting information on how estrogen works as the anabolic.
So to really answer your question, if you feel perfectly fine without blockers and
are just concerned with the bloating welcome the water my young Jeti, and embrace
the thickness, strength, and size it brings along. If you really have to use one
then I would suggest a small amounts of nolvadex (10mg/day). It is all I use
besides masterone when I am dieting, to aid in on the hardness.
DrX
* kangOffseason.jpg (55.12 kB, 640x480 - viewed 1643 times.)
* Men-BB-Overall-1-300x300.jpg (31.02 kB, 300x300 - viewed 1639 times.)

you."
Diluted56
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Posts: 1543
GH15 South Africa

� Reply #363 on: March 17, 2014, 11:55:20 AM �
ReplyQuote
and estrogen?
e3d to control.
this!!!!!!!
DrX
scale.

My Log:
Mremms
King
****
Posts: 462

� Reply #362 on: March 17, 2014, 11:32:37 AM �
ReplyQuote
Awesome thread my friend! I enjoyed reading it throughout the day, you're a very
smart person! One day i hope to have obtained the same amount lf knowledge that you
have. I also have simar goals of tbe 70s look and i've alwags been interested in
their diets and AAS Globalge. Your information on vegetables have been a wonder to
read too! I also agree with your Globalge of suplements. Very good thread
DrX
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Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #361 on: March 13, 2014, 02:02:23 PM �
ReplyQuote
and estrogen?
e3d to control.
this!!!!!!!
DrX
you."
Lean82
JEDI
******
Posts: 8008

� Reply #360 on: March 13, 2014, 12:49:25 AM �
ReplyQuote
I've finally caught up in this thread. It is hard for me to stay on top of
everything juggling my roles on this board, AND being a fan of a lot of guys and
trying to keep up with all your pearls of wisdom.
But this page is gold. It is funny to see all this Wise Sages in DrX's thread, and
yet all you guys are so humble and don't even realize the huge contributions that
you bring to this forum. That's a large part what makes this place great b/c most
of y'all walk in a spirit of humility and the desire to give back.
I'm not trying to be all warm and fuzzy and kiss ass, but it is DrX and threads
like this that truly make this the greatest bodybuilding board on all of the
internet.
Mkayy
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Posts: 2956

� Reply #359 on: March 12, 2014, 09:36:26 PM �
ReplyQuote
I don't really even enjoy lifting heavy, the pump you get from slow, controlled
reps is much more addictive and rewarding IMO.
Mr.Dutch
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Posts: 667

� Reply #358 on: March 12, 2014, 08:39:46 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: bigeyedfish on March 12, 2014, 05:18:07 AM
Wow. DrX is truly one of the reasons this site is great. I look to him for
knowledge and he reads MY posts? I feel like I'm on notice now. Gotta start posting
better. No more banter, its time to get serious. lol. I try to chime in where I
feel like I have something to add, but I don't have nearly the years of experience
DrX and many of the guys here have. But I'm a work in progress.
Thanks for the reply. It gives me a lot to think about, and I'm going to read it
again several times.
I get what you're saying about the mistake of decrease the ROM while increasing the
weight. As I was reading it I was flashing back to undergraduate physics class.
Something about the definition of work being force X distance? A greater weight
will require more force but you can decrease the work by decreasing the distance
the weight is moved. I also think at a certain point ergonomics kick in and you're
going to move the weight using whatever muscles you can.
I agree with you in principle that bigger muscles don't have to come from heavier
weights. Other factors can apply, time under tension, and most importantly
progressive overload.
This topic mirrors the discussion going on in the frequency lovers thread in
neverland. There are some interesting replys in there, especially from NastyNate,
who has made more progress in a shorter time than just about anyone I would say.
Quote from: Nasty_Nate on March 09, 2014, 01:21:54 PM

I don't add weight to the bar anymore. I got up to over 600lb dead for reps, 500lb
squat for reps, nearly 4 plate bench. I didn't care to get stronger when I saw IFBB
pros who don't get injured are training lighter. I use 2 plates benching and 4
plates for deads.
You can only improve in strength and size by increasing intensity but that doesn't
always mean more weight. I improve by increasing my intensity via decreasing rest
times, increasing reps with a certain weight, and you can increase sets, etc... Jay
Cutler is the perfect example of someone who utilized every avenue of intensity
other than just lifting more weight.
I pyramid up only on bench and deads. every other exercise I know what weight ill
use so I use it for all 3-4 sets and aim for the same 6-10 reps per set
I asked him about achieving progressive overload and this was his reply. Straight
out of DrX style piston training.

Im still using that as my working weight. Until I can do 6 sets of 10 reps with
225, with 30 secs rest between sets, using 3 sec eccentric, complete rest on chest,
3 second concentric, then I don't need to increase the weight. This is what saves
joints and I can do this type of training my whole life and build my chest.
The biggest problem you see these days is ego lifting. We all did it, sometimes
still do. Biggest problem is you see guys with 10 inch biceps curl more lbs than
you. People that weigh 70kg benchpress 3 plates while the 'spotter' is deadlifting
at the same time etc etc. Lifting heavy is fun sometimes, nice change of workout
once in while, But over time it's certainly not more effective. What dr.x and nasty
nate say is spot on.
Also it's funny to see when you only benchpress 2 plates and the guy next to you is
3x smaller than you 'lifting' more weight and thinks he's a bad guy.
The myth stronger is bigger...

joeyflex69
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� Reply #357 on: March 12, 2014, 07:42:09 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: bigeyedfish on March 12, 2014, 05:18:07 AM

plates for deads.

bigeyedfish is a smart guy I like to read his post's too
Dr. X i think is a great guy with valueable info

joeyflex69
Global Elf Mod
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Posts: 5695
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� Reply #356 on: March 12, 2014, 07:40:31 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: DrX on February 27, 2014, 03:20:23 PM
Quote from: alex_a on February 20, 2014, 03:09:40 PM
Really nice advices on training man!
When u have some free time pls post ur Quads training too :)
Hey again man! and thx for all the great info from this thread! really nice work!!!
I m in contest prep now ...11 weeks out ...and i m feeling my back it s lil lagging
and i m looking for some changes if can be done on caloric deficit now
Pls post ur Back routine used on diet ...when u have time
Thx!!!
Alex, you have asked a great question I've been wanting to answer for a while.
First things first, as bodybuilders our goals while dieting comprise of two
elements, not one. The first and most important is the retention of newly acquired
muscle obtained during the off season. Second is the removal of fat gained during
this calorie surplus period. Most forget, the bodybuilder who comes in with the
MOST visible and conditioned muscle wins!! One of the biggest mistakes I see which
eventually works against you in the retention of muscle during dieting is the
changing of exercises and routines from your norm. Both in terms of exercises that
you are not use to or have never done before. Your goal should be to maintain the
same strength curve (or a closely as you can) to the same exercises you used in the
off season, but with less intensity.
The exercises you used during the off season should always be used in pre-contest.
Your muscles were built under certain stress caused by the SPECIFIC movements. I
can use the astronauts example again in the fight against the loss of bone mass
during space missions. They can exercise in space as much as they want, take extra
supplements and hormones but the loss of bone will occur because the loads normally
placed on the body on earth cannot be generated in space.
I specifically mentioned in the Dennis wolf videos that he was dieting. Why,
because his training style will be different off season, but the exercises will
generally be the same. Notice the importance of how Dennis went to, but did not go
past failure in those videos (less intensity), as there is no need for drop sets.
Changing exercises at this point will also NOT add new muscle to the frame.
Remember the body is under increased stress from lower calories. The added cardio
if done in extremes could also subsequently cause additional loss of lean tissue
too.
The way I look at it. What is the point of adding all that precious muscle in the
growth phase only to lose all of it in prep?
All of this is also highly dependent on the experience of the dieter. If you want
to enter and win as many contests as you can, you had better learn to diet, without
changing too many variables from year to year. In order to be the best you would
want to repeat your perfect condition time and time again, year in year out. This
my friends is extremely difficult to do because you body is ALWAYS changing. This
is also why I advocate keeping the same exercises pre and post season. You now have
one variable that is constant. The only changes are the diet in terms of calorie,
macro-nutrient composition and cardio .
AAS doses and insulin/hgh have critical importance as we all know, but that was
not the purpose of the answer. But I will briefly touch on that subject here. The
other BIG mistake I see made is the lowering of doses during the prep phase. This
mistake is usually made when the change occurs from slow acting compounds to the
faster version. Because the fast acting doses are usually half the concentration,
you have to make a concerted effort to match or even (as some advocate) increase
the total dose under these increased stressed dieting environments. This is why
many experienced dieters keep the long acting versions in as long as they can. It
becomes incredibly tedious to inject all the extra volume of oil required to match
or exceed growth doses with the shorter counterparts.
This gives me the chance to really introduce Alex to the GH15 community. He has won
multiple regional shows including competing in the World Championships. His
physique reminds me of a young Dennis Wolf surprisingly enough. He had asked a few
questions for this upcoming show in terms of both his growth and prep. So we have
tried to put our heads together to avoid his issues of coming in small and flat to
the show. I have been here to support and make a few small suggestions with those
questions. With just a few small changes to his AAS selections and doses his goal
is to come into the Championships full, hard and ripped ala the 90's look. He is a
VERY experienced dieter, so it requires very little help from me. Plus I am not a
prep coach nor do I have the extra time for that. He is not using any stimulants,
or T3. This will all be done with a little gh, diet, some cardio and a changed
selection of AAS to keep his lean tissue hard and full.
Good luck Alex.
Here is a video of my favorite former World Championship winner for inspiration...

Charles Clairmonte. Absolute perfection!!!!
https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=206931342706328
DrX
its funny i too thought Charles Clairmonte had one of the best builds- what a
bodybuilder should look like
Mkayy
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� Reply #355 on: March 12, 2014, 06:25:35 AM �
ReplyQuote
Bigeyedfish, great post man, really enjoy reading a lot of what you have to say.
Keep it up.
bigeyedfish
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� Reply #354 on: March 12, 2014, 05:18:07 AM �
ReplyQuote

plates for deads.


DrX
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� Reply #353 on: March 10, 2014, 02:17:51 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: bigeyedfish on March 05, 2014, 10:13:13 PM
One of my squat days every week I tell myself to go into DrX mode. I squat two days
a week. One 531 style and one higher rep (12-15) piston style. I'm always much more
sore and pumped after the piston style. Whether that is an indication of more
growth I don't know. I've been doing this for several months and I like it.
Constant tension on the muscle, no rest.
Anyway, I wanted to ask you about something you posted in another thread:
"In my opinion turning diabetic via exogenous insulin would highly depend on dose
and duration. Due to my own personal experience in this area, you need to be MUCH
more concerned with HGH and its role is creating resistance (Type 2 Diabetes) then
insulin especially as you age...."
I agree with you. This is seen with type two's a lot. They initially develop
resistance, then progress to requiring insulin. But they are resistant so they need
supraphysiologic doses of insulin, which leads to more resistance. I've seen type
two's on hundred of units a day and still not controled. A typical protocol for
type one's on the other hand is to have a infusion pump giving a couple of units an
hour, then at meal take some short acting log. They don't develop resistance as
long as their doses remain physiologic and there is nothing else causing
resistance, ie obesity, although its unusual to see a fat type one.
I guess my question is what is your experience in this area? It sounds like there
is more behind this.
Bigeyedfish, I will add some important comments to your personal discovery between
your two styles of training. I will get to your question on glucose sensitivity at
a later date.
But before I begin I must confess, during times where I have very little time to
surf and enjoy GH15 and I come in strictly for ACCURATE information bigeyedfish is
one of the members I go straight to and read ALL of his recent replies. His
knowledge among other key members is one of the reasons this site is so
successful!!!
When he posts, I listen....
For the next few weeks I want you to observe others train. What you will be looking
for are a couple of key points that will solidify your assessment of why Piston
Style is so efficient. Lets make a general assumption most bodybuilders believe.
Bigger muscles come for utilizing heaver weight. There is a yes and no answer to
that statement. The mistake most don't realize is that the heavier weight sometimes
translates to less stimulation. There are two area of concern during a lift. Time
under tension and leverage.
Here is what I want you to do. In-between your sets I want you to observe others
training in your vicinity. If possible watch and observe someone on the bench doing
the dumbbell chest press. It is the easiest one to see the mistakes. During the
first few set with lighter weight most trainers will use a rep range that contains
a longer stroke. They will use a fuller range of motion. In other words the weight
is moved a longer distance. As the weight gets heavier during the sets notice how
shorter the rep range becomes. So as weight goes up, distance traveled comes down.
If you watch carefully enough, you can see this mistake on every exerciser you
choose as the shorter distance traveled will nullify the heavier weight.
Second, leverage. The arch nemesis of bodybuilding. We again will use dumbbell
presses as the example. This actually comes from understanding the bio-mechanics of
the lift but with good observation you will notice adjustments made by the body as
weight gets progressively heavier. What you are carefully looking for is the subtle
changes in body dynamics with each subsequent set. As weight gets heavier on the
press the elbows will not stay back, but will gravitate down to the hips, the back
will begin to arch, the head will starts to bounce up and down. The shoulders
should remain static, but start to rotate up and down too. The speed of the rep at
times may change because balance and stability are compromised. Leverage kicks in
by the body to compensate for the heavier weight. The loads actually bypasses the
target muscle, thus generating less stimulation. You actually feel the heavier
weight on the joints, tendons and nervous tissue surrounding the muscle, but the
actual loads are transferred to other body parts. The ultimate concern of "lifting"
heavier weight translates to poor growth for many regardless of AAS dose especially
for those such as myself with less then ideal genetics.
The reason you are sore the next day using Piston Style is because you have
actually INCREASED time under tension as weight gets heavier. Thus you have broken
down more muscle tissue. Blood has to stay in the location you are targeting as
other muscles are not called in to help, hence your pumps are isolated and fuller.
You are also mindful of the full range of motion on all your sets and reps. Because
the time rest periods are shorter, leverage becomes difficult as the weight is
controlled and has to stay in motion. You are not concerned with weight per say but
the perfect reps performed.
Your observations will lead you to see an equation. Drop of rep range with added
leverage equals less stimulation regardless of heavier weight.
DrX
you."
DrX
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� Reply #352 on: March 07, 2014, 10:44:24 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: decker86 on March 04, 2014, 08:11:30 PM
Hello DrX. I have been lifting consistently with proper diet and training routine
since i was 15 years old, and now that i'm 19 i'm getting interested in steroids to
achieve a classical bodybuilder look, not only because i like it but also because i
would like to compete.
I have two questions for you. What would you suggest for a first cycle to a new
user? Something like Test Enan + Deca or Equi or NPP + Dbol? And for cruising?
I have another question: you said to not use AI because we need estrogens for
muscle building, and that's ok. But what about people like me who has pubertal
gyno? Wouldn't be better to run an AI? Thanks for all the useful informations in
the topic, anyway :)
There is really no right or wrong answer for either of the two cycles you proposed.
Depends on what you want to accomplish. But If I were to recommend one as a first
cycle for someone who was ready, I would actually say test enan or cyp and dbol.
Why? These two have been the bread and butter beginning AAS for all prior
generations previous to this new one. No need to get complicated with high does and
short esters at this point. If all goes well then I would bring in deca over eq
next.
I had severe pubertal gyno also so I am saying this out of experience. This is one
of the reasons to keep doses low enough to test the waters. All I ever needed was
nolvadex (10mg/day), and that was used if I recall correctly not until my third
cycle. But remember as I stated in earlier threads, our cycles were in total less
then 500mg a week, so estrogen and side effects were minimal or non existent.
DrX
you."
bigeyedfish
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� Reply #351 on: March 05, 2014, 10:13:13 PM �
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One of my squat days every week I tell myself to go into DrX mode. I squat two days
a week. One 531 style and one higher rep (12-15) piston style. I'm always much more
sore and pumped after the piston style. Whether that is an indication of more
growth I don't know. I've been doing this for several months and I like it.
Constant tension on the muscle, no rest.
Anyway, I wanted to ask you about something you posted in another thread:
"In my opinion turning diabetic via exogenous insulin would highly depend on dose
and duration. Due to my own personal experience in this area, you need to be MUCH
more concerned with HGH and its role is creating resistance (Type 2 Diabetes) then
insulin especially as you age...."
I agree with you. This is seen with type two's a lot. They initially develop
resistance, then progress to requiring insulin. But they are resistant so they need
supraphysiologic doses of insulin, which leads to more resistance. I've seen type
two's on hundred of units a day and still not controled. A typical protocol for
type one's on the other hand is to have a infusion pump giving a couple of units an
hour, then at meal take some short acting log. They don't develop resistance as
long as their doses remain physiologic and there is nothing else causing
resistance, ie obesity, although its unusual to see a fat type one.
I guess my question is what is your experience in this area? It sounds like there
is more behind this.
DrX
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� Reply #350 on: March 04, 2014, 10:37:04 PM �
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Quote from: Vitek92 on March 01, 2014, 04:55:22 PM
precautions.
thick look.
You are very welcome. Remember, take your time. There will be plenty of set backs.
How you handle those set backs will be the key to your success.
Bodybuilding is a ultimately a marathon not a sprint.
What I have witnessed over the years is those who respect patience will be around
in the end. For some that perfect physique will come in 3 years, for others 30
years. Embrace the journey...
This is who we are...
DrX
you."
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� Reply #349 on: March 04, 2014, 08:11:30 PM �
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Hello DrX. I have been lifting consistently with proper diet and training routine
since i was 15 years old, and now that i'm 19 i'm getting interested in steroids to
achieve a classical bodybuilder look, not only because i like it but also because i
would like to compete.
I have two questions for you. What would you suggest for a first cycle to a new
user? Something like Test Enan + Deca or Equi or NPP + Dbol? And for cruising?
I have another question: you said to not use AI because we need estrogens for
muscle building, and that's ok. But what about people like me who has pubertal
gyno? Wouldn't be better to run an AI? Thanks for all the useful informations in
the topic, anyway :)
Vitek92
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� Reply #348 on: March 01, 2014, 04:55:22 PM �
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precautions.
thick look.
Mkayy
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� Reply #347 on: March 01, 2014, 03:27:24 PM �
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Looking forward to this chest training article very much Drx!
DrX
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� Reply #346 on: March 01, 2014, 03:14:29 PM �
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Quote from: oberonxl on February 21, 2014, 03:53:39 PM
By far one of the most informative threads on this site. I read through everything
and was wondering if you had the chest article in the works, I think you mentioned
it a few pages back. I'm very intrigued on your thoughts on its development and why
there is a difference from physiques of the past and present on that body part.
Thanks! Learning so much!
A thick full chest that looks like a plate of amour; the epitome of power and
masculinity. Out side of full high traps, it is the only body part that signifies
you are a bodybuilder when covered up. People know who you are when you walk into a
room.
The chest article will take some time. I am still trying to comprehend how to write
down and explain certain details that actually require a physical presence.
There are two areas of concern, from the technical side of lifting, to the
differences in equipment between when I was taught to train chest and now. Each is
as critical to the other in terms of development. I will give you some small
examples today. If you noticed back in the 70-90's the benches were very narrow and
the padding was hard. It allowed your rear delts and outer lats to float over the
sides with no compressional forces pushing them up.
Today unfortunately, the equipment is not designed for maximum development, but
truthfully for comfort and ease of use for new aspiring memberships. The commercial
side of the gym business is all about memberships that cater to the most
discriminating of clientele. Equipment that feels good and soft (like a couch), and
that can increase leverage is good for business. The gym equipment makers know
this. Most plate loaded chest machines design the handle to a specific angle and
depth low enough below the chest to drop your elbows down for maximum weight and
ego. The benches will also be wide and made with soft cushions. The angles of the
equipment are also different. Depending on the gym, the adjustable benches that
usually sit in front of the dumbbell rack do not come back enough for maximum
stimulation. Even at the lowest setting there is too much shoulder activation in my
opinion. And again they are built either to low or to high to the ground. Remember
it is about the bottom line, memberships in mind not thick full chests.
My entire gym was retrofitted with all new equipment two months ago and I am still
getting use to all. Very very few pieces of equipment are better, most are worse
then before (don't get me started). They say it takes time to get use to the
changes. No not really if the design is wrong. The new adjustable benches we have
in front of the rack do actually adjust to a much lower angle then before, but
again designed very low to the ground with very soft and wide padding.
It only took them 15 years to figure this out, but the manufacture of the new
plate loaded chest machines (which I never use) have a notched out an area where
the delts and lats float. But regardless of the machines (including the smith),
they cannot fully activate ALL the chest muscles as the free weight version done
correctly. Remember the chest muscles are attached horizontally and the loads are
in the same direction. This we do know, based solely on the chests being produced
today even though the average weights of the competitors are up 20 pounds plus.
I'll get there I promise. I have already started. Just give me some time...
The new BabyX is kicking my butt and is joyfully taking up most of my spare time.
DrX
* stwih.jpg (63.77 kB, 611x381 - viewed 529 times.)

you."
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� Reply #345 on: February 27, 2014, 06:33:23 PM �
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Quote from: DrX on February 27, 2014, 03:20:23 PM
Thx!!!
too.
Good luck Alex.

DrX
Hey hey!
Thx again for ur answer and for ur help man!
I m doing my best here...i m 10 weeks out from the Balkan Classic Bodybuilding
Championship
I would like to add i m competing in Classic Bb divison where we have an weight
limit...at my height 1.81 m i can be max 89 kg on stage...so classic proportions
and condition always wins in classic bb
I will add u a video from Wolrlds Championship...look at the guy who won!!!...he
was 1.78 m tall and 82 kg in contest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPZHYTpWb1Y
topic=29410.0
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ReplyQuote
Thx!!!
too.
Good luck Alex.

DrX
you."
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ReplyQuote
and estrogen?
e3d to control.
oberonxl
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ReplyQuote
By far one of the most informative threads on this site. I read through everything
and was wondering if you had the chest article in the works, I think you mentioned
it a few pages back. I'm very intrigued on your thoughts on its development and why
there is a difference from physiques of the past and present on that body part.
Thanks! Learning so much!
A special thanks to Firefigher67 for posting this gem. If you have not seen the
video, watch it first. You are looking for technical aspects of his training
protocol. Then after reading this, watch it once more again.
I have been hoping to find a fantastic example of PISTON STYLE training for quads.
I will go over the fine details in this video that you may have missed that will
help you develop your quads to their fullest potential.
Lets start with some realities first. Dennis is four week out from competition. As
a result, his energy levels will be extremely diminished. He is more then likely
also at this point still doing twice a day cardio and his joints may also be a
stage where they are dry and painful, the degree would depend on what he is
concurrently running.
He has in my opinion some of the best quads in the business. His ankles if some of
you have noticed are extremely small, which tells me he had a more difficult time
building quads then most of his peers. Perfection of this technique developed not
only the size but his incredible sweep.
We will first start the review on his squat. Notice how he perfectly moves each rep
in a seamless fashion. The rep is done in FULL RANGE with NO stopping at the top or
at the bottom of the stroke. His stance is shoulder width with no exaggeration of
toe pointing in or out. His head and chest is UP, with his hips tucked forward
therefore he is able to drive the bar in a straight line (there is very little
leverage). This is the key. It is substantially more taxing to train in this
fashion, but is easier on the joints and tendons. He however is moving what I
consider to be a tremendous amount of weight for piston style. I do not expect him
to go past and beyond failure here because he is NOT in his off-season mode with
extra calories. He takes his sets right to failure. If this was an off-season
video, and he was looking to grow, he would be taking his reps to and beyond
failure with increased intensity.
I teach his exact method, but with a few more pointers. First, the grip. As I step
into the bar I will lightly grip the bar first with both hands before I go under it
to begin the set. The grip on the bar will be closer to the shoulders forcing the
traps to pop up a bit. I will also encourage the elbows to point down not behind
you, with the chest up. This allows for a straighter line and a more erect squat.
If you grip the bar closer to the collars your chest will naturally sag down, the
bar will sit lower on the traps and your hips will adjust backwards. This creates
leverage through the hips and glutes. You will move more weight this way, but this
method is for those who want strength not size.
On to the leg press machine. The leg press plate on this particular machine is
small. Most of you will have a much bigger platform to place your feet. I like the
area right in the middle with shoulder width stance (I will use the area right on
top outsides to train hamstrings). Here again Dennis uses piston style, NO
STOPPING, WITH FULL RANGE OF MOTION. None of this half rep nonsense. Keep your
head back and your chest up just like he is. Grip the handles on the sides and use
them as I have explained in an earlier thread to get your nervous system to help
generate a few more reps. Do not ever let go of the grips and let your chest sag.
The reason for the chest up and head back position is to get as much oxygen in
during the set. It also allows the body to stabilize itself against the padding.
You become solidified or one with the machine.
I am not familiar with his next leg machine. Looks like a vertical leg press. When
I first started out the old school guys would replicate this in the squat rack.
They would lie on their backs with a mat underneath, pin the area directly above
them and use the balls of the feet to drive a bar up against the side of the rack.
My guess is Dennis started using this only when he came to Vegas. He more then
likely, depending on his knees, used the hack squat as his other mass builder.
Lastly leg extensions. Same applies here too. Keep the load in a continues motion
with a full range of motion. If you noticed on his first few sets he did not grab
the handles. Always grab the handles and pull yourself down. Just like Tom Platz
explained was the key to his development in the Golden Eagle article. Second again
keep your chest up, and your uppermost body back and up. This will allow for a
deeper stretch and contraction at the top point.
Training quads in Piston style for all your exercises is extremely demanding. You
may not be able to perform hams or calves after the secession. Most cannot, as your
nervous system will be exhausted. I will actually go back the following afternoon
to isolate hams and calves on their own day.
DrX
you."
Sdmonster
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I did the calf workout yesterday and yeah, it was a bitch. Made it to 30 before I
realized how I've never trained calves before. It was hell the rest of the way
followed by a struggle walking out of the weight room. Awesome stuff
1500 test/1400 tren a
iSolus
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� Reply #329 on: February 05, 2014, 09:50:54 AM �
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Any recent pictures?
Great thread.
Hell
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� Reply #328 on: February 05, 2014, 06:10:03 AM �
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So much good info!
slice
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definitely going to try that calve workout thanks for that
Diluted56
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Re: DrX Photos:70-80's Protocol. The Dealer Pg10

ReplyQuote
Quote from: DrX on January 18, 2014, 03:03:03 PM
Welcome back my brothers in iron!!
I am looking forward to yet another fruitful year and will update my progress
shortly with a few pictures and stats. I am deep into the off season growth
protocol and up to my heaviest weight yet. Close to 40lbs above the pictures taken
on page one. For my frame that is a tremendous amount of weight to carry. This in
NOT a lean growth protocol in any way or form as others are implementing and
recommending , but rather the old fashion way of growing. The out of favor way, but
my way!!!
The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams. -- Eleanor
Roosevelt
Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving. --
Albert Einstein
DrX
waiting for more details about ur current protocol...
Same! I'm looking forward to seeing the details on this DrX :D
And that article on Tom Platz was awesome, really inspiring! Not too long ago John
Meadows put some videos up of him and Platz training doing some of this high
intensity techniques, looked absolutely brutal!!
My Log:
alex_a
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ReplyQuote
Quote from: DrX on January 18, 2014, 03:03:03 PM
my way!!!
Roosevelt
Albert Einstein
DrX
waiting for more details about ur current protocol...

topic=29410.0
ChestRockwell
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That was a fantastic article as well as spot on advice/feedback. I'm finding more
and more that our philosophies line up very closely to one another...
it...
alex_a
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ReplyQuote
Great stuff DrX!!! always nice to hear about GoldenEra...i think best times in
bodybuilding
topic=29410.0
DrX
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How Tom Platz Built Those Legs
A special thanks to a member who posted this on another site. I had to copy for all
to see, as it has tremendous relevance to this thread.
Tom Platz was also know as the Golden Eagle. Refer to the link below for pictures
from the article.
http://bodybuilding-mauritius.blogspot.com/2013/10/how-tom-platz-built-those-
legs.html
"Just starting out, I trained with Olympic lifters who taught me a reverence for
the squat. They taught me that this is where life and death passes before your
eyes, that this is the altar of weight lifting. But when I first came to Gold's in
Venice the squat rack was cluttered and shoved in the back, an nobody used it.
Sure, Arnold and Ed Corney used it in Pumping Iron, but that was more for show.
When I started squatting a lot, people said I shouldn't because it would throw off
my balance and symmetry. I did it anyway.
Because it was so taxing, I squatted only twice a month. It was like you were
attempting something superhuman. To prepare for it, I'd get up at 5 a.m. and
mentally talk to myself as encouragement and that helped make it easy in my mind.
It never turned out that way, of course. It was always brutal, to the point where
I'd go, "I think I felt the muscle tear off the bone. I think we should stop, Tony
(Martinez)." And he's say, "You'll be okay. Rub it a little bit and you'll be
fine." But I was good at talking myself into the idea of squatting, even though I
knew the reality."
I'd put on my lifting shoes - I wore Adidas weightlifting shoes with a higher heel
that tapered down to a thin sole - and they were part of my experience, physically
and psychologically. I mean, would you go ice-skating without blades? Lifting shoes
were that for me: an important piece of the puzzle that made my workout the
experience that it was.
So I'd put on my shoes, grab my gear and drive from Malibu to Venice in my 1960
Corvette. As I pulled out of the garage the throaty rumble of the powerful engine
would blend into my psyche and become part of my preparation as I drove. I'd
purposely drive by the ocean to watch the waves smash powerfully against the rocks.
If I thought about the workout too much, I'd get sweaty palms on the way to the gym
and couldn't grip the steering wheel. Watching the ocean helped distract, and
prepare me.
I'd pull into Gold's in Venice. It wasn't busy like it is today. There were only a
few of us there, especially that early. And, of course, Tony would be there waiting
for me, ready for the workout.
We'd go to the squat rack and I remember always stretching in front of the rack.
I'd take the hurdler's position on the floor - one leg bent, the other straight -
then lower my nose to my knee. As I stretched out I'd try to ease my mind, convince
myself I was there to have fun, to just do one or two sets and call it quits.
Sometimes we'd even cover the mirror with newspaper because I didn't want to see
myself squat. I just wanted to feel it and experience it within my own being.
Of course this pre-workout time wasn't only about the stretching; it was also about
emotionally and physically preparing for what was about to come. I'd touch the
weights, the rack, the bar, and I'd have this almost religious reverence for them.
I liked to use an old battered bar, slightly bent just enough so that it didn't
roll off my shoulders when I was standing erect. I'd marked it with a plate, banged
the plate on the collar so that I could remember which one it was, and I always
wrapped a towel around the bar before I started my sets.
Done stretching, I'd put on my lifting belt - a little loose so that I could
breathe - and Tony and I would warm up real slow. A set at 135 for 10 easy reps.
Add another plate, nice and easy. Then we'd listen to Motown and we'd start
progressing with the weight. Now 315. I'd leave space between the plates on purpose
so when I came up from the squat, a real quick rep, the plates would jingle. The
sound was very important to me. The music, the Motown and the plates jingling
against one another - big, thick, 45-pound iron plates. That sound helped me time
the reps and my movement. I liked to come up quickly with such speed that the bar
would bend over my shoulders and the plates would crash together, and I relished
that sensation! I'd do a quick 20 reps with 315 with all my senses focused.
One more 45 per side and Tony would put the collars on, knowing the exact space to
get that sound. Tony would count off my reps . . . 10 . . . 20 . . . 30 - let's see
how far we can go! When I'd get to the point where I couldn't do any more reps,
Tony would say something like, "You OWN this exercise!" or "Go after it and GET
IT!" He would conjure up six, eight, 10, 20 more reps out of me. Then I'd literally
fall into the squat rack and jing! The plates would rattle and I'd fall to the
floor. I'd take the belt off and all of a sudden I was gasping for air and I
couldn't breathe. It felt like someone was driving knives into my legs, and my
heart rate went through the roof. I couldn't see, I was sweating profusely, but
eventually I'd come back.
Sometimes it took me 20 minutes, but I always came back. When I could see properly
again I'd go outside and breathe some fresh air, then come back in and say, "Okay,
Tony, one more set!" And we'd go again.
On those days when I left the gym I was high. I thought, "I lived through this. I
got through this. I can do anything in life." I'd keep my belt on loosely and walk
to the car, thinking victory. I was one with my spirit and with God.
I trained legs every week, but the squats were so exhausting that I couldn't walk
afterward and doing another exercise was simply out of the question. So I squatted
twice a month and did other 'accessory' machine movements like leg extensions, leg
curls, and hack squats on alternate weeks.
Leg Extensions
Back in the mid-80s this guy named Magic, who lived in a yellow school bus behind
Gold's gym, made me a special lifting belt to strap myself into place onto the old
leg extension at Gold's - the original one Joe Gold had made that Arnold, Draper,
Zane, Corney and all of my mentor figures had used. I'd hurt my arm - I tore the
biceps tendon off the bone - and although it had been repaired, hanging onto the
leg extension machine put a lot of stress on my arm. The old machine was just a
seat with no back and a bicycle chain attached to the weight stack. It was
antiquated, even at that time, but I liked it because I felt Draper's fingerprints
on it. A lot of people had no idea how to use the machine because it didn't have a
back on it, but I knew. All I had to do was look at that machine and my legs grew.
I'd lock myself into the machine (using the belt Magic made), and hook my feet
under the pad. I'd warm up with some light weight, like half a stack for a set of
10. Then I had this old, bent, beat-up pin that I'd put underneath the whole stack
and hand a 100-pound plate off. Tony's job was to make sure that plate didn't fall
of while I was doing my reps! Then I'd start: I'd pull this weight stack with the
100-pound plate as forcefully as I could up in the air, accelerating through the
whole movement. Because the machine had to back, I'd lean forward, grab the back of
the machine and at this point I was almost parallel to the floor! Then I'd lower
the stack and plate back to the start, controlling its descent as I sat back up. A
jackknife. Rep after rep, I'd feel the tension accumulating in my muscles. And when
I dropped the weight at the bottom it'd bounce on the springs of the machine. I'd
lift it again and my legs would light on fire. The intensity and
the tension were indicative that growth was imminent. Separation, clarity,
distinction, quality -- all the freaky stuff I lived for would be forthcoming.
I'd get 8-10 reps for the first 5 sets, then maybe 2-5 reps for the next 5. When I
say 8-10 or 2-5,that's reps done on my own; I'm not counting the 15-20 forced reps
-- baby reps, partial reps, negatives -- that Tony would assist me with. I'd raise
the machine arm as high as I possibly could so that my quads were fully contracted.
Then Tony would push down, in pulses almost, on the machine arm and I'd resist his
pressure. He'd repeatedly push down,then let go, and I would bring it back up as
high as I could. The weight would slowly get lower and lower because I was getting
fatigued,and finally about 6 to 7 minutes later the set would be done. It was like
a long, extended negative set with little pushes and pulls throughout. And that was
just one set.
When the set was over I'd be in extreme pain, writhing around. And it was like an
operation to get me out of that machine as a few guys unbuckled me and took the
chains and straps off. Then I'd get up and hang onto the machine and gasp for air.
But after a minute or two, Tony would look at me and say, "You ready? Let's go."
And he'd lock me back into place again and I'd do 6-10 more sets.
Lying Leg Curls
I'd always do lying leg curls at the completion or our workout. We used the old
Nautilus leg curl machine -- the one with a bicycle chain that made a ton of noise
-- of course! Again, a very antiquated machine but the most effective one of all
time, I believe. It's long gone but I still remember how it used to feel.
Because we did leg curls at the end of the workout, I was pretty tired and could
only do like 1-4 sets, but I'd change it up to achieve failure. Sometimes I'd do 50
reps with moderate weight, or I'd use tons of weight for only 3 reps. The workouts
depended on my mood and my level of exhaustion.
For the curls I'd do a number of reps on my own, then I'd have Tony grab my ankles
and push down very, very slowly. I'd fight back the whole time and the negative
part of the set might last a whole minute. Two sets like that and I was finished.
Hack Squats
Hack squats were very, very meaningful in terms of bringing out the sweep in my
quads. Initially when I was developing my training protocol I tried to do hacks
after my barbell squats. But because I could barely walk after squatting I had no
strength to do them, so I did the hacks on alternate weeks, too.
In the machine, I was taught to put my heels together and point my toes out. That
way you primarily squat on the lateral edge of your foot, putting tension on the
vastus lateralis, which gives the thighs a sweep.
I'd do a warmup set with a few plates on each side to get my head on right -- of
course leaving some space between the plates so they'd jingle and give me that
sound I loved -- then I'd do hack squats until I couldn't do any more. Sometimes
I'd have four 45-pound plates on each side for 8-10 reps. Other times I'd have a
quarter or a dime on their for 50 reps. The weight didn't matter. I'd go for that
mental connection to my body and my legs. I wanted to feel and grow that tension to
the point where I knew it was going to be effective in the muscles becoming larger,
more striated or more substantial.
I'd do several reps on my own, then I'd have Tony push down on the machine while
I'd do partial reps. Or sometimes I'd have Tony sit on the machine, hang onto it
and pull, and I'd do baby reps, partial reps, isometrics and negatives. Whatever it
took to completely exhaust the muscles to the point of absolute failure -- then go
beyond that into the red zone. We'd do a total of about 6-10 sets of hack squats.
Calf Raises
We would actually go to World Gym down the street to do calves. That's where Arnold
and Frank and a lot of other guys were training at the time, and since our hard,
focused work was through we could spare a little energy and joke around there. Plus
they had better calf machines!
We'd change our routine a lot and sometimes we'd do standing calf raises. I'd have
Tony and a couple of other guys hanging off the machine, and I'd be holding the
weight as high as I could for as long as I could. Other times I'd do as many reps
as I could for one set and call it a day. We also did seated calf raises. I'd have
as many as 15 100-pound plates stacked on there. I'd do my reps then have Tony push
slightly, pumping it with baby movements until I couldn't sustain the tension.
One time the seated calf machine actually broke! It shot me out of the machine like
a bullet. Joe Gold was freaking out and yelling at everybody and I'm like, "What
happened?" This was two weeks before the Olympia in 1981 and after a few moments my
ankle started to swell up. I iced it and it was okay, but it was still a little
swollen. If you look closely at the '81 Olympia photos you'll notice a difference
in my ankles. One looks swollen. That's what it's from.
Intensity
I wasn't the most genetically gifted bodybuilder, but my attitude prevailed. I

attribute my physical success to my dedication and my training. It really started
in Michigan, the craziness. In college, we'd plan a yearly squat-off to see who
could do the most reps. We'd plan it for a whole year and I dreaded it for a whole
year. I remember when the day came I did 225 for 10 minutes without stopping at
all. I don't remember how many reps it was, but I do remember vowing never to do
that again! But I just went there. It was part of my mentality.
When I first moved to California I actually trained with Arnold for a while. I
figured if his training system worked for him and Franco, it should work for me,
too. But it didn't! I got smaller and fatter training with Arnold. He trained twice
a day, six days a week, sometimes seven, and used lots of sets and decent weight. I
got depressed because I was shrinking and took a few weeks off. When I came back I
decided to train four days a week, and I grew. Arnold responded to high frequency
and high volume; I responded better to less volume and frequency but much higher
intensity and heavy weights. Later I realized I was doing a primitive form of
periodization, working both types of muscle fibers. But back then all I knew is
that I was growing!
I did, however, borrow the idea of extending my sets beyond the standard from Mike
Mentzer. I'd watched him and his partner training on the leg extension machine one
day: Mike would lift the weight to the top then his partner would push down slowly
as Mike would resist. So I tried it and Oh My God! I felt like I'd never trained
before! My quads were burning and my muscles were firing and I simply had to
incorporate this concept into my training.
I discussed it with my training partner Tony and we came up with our own version of
that kind of extended set. We incorporated their ideas with some of my powerlifting
background where you'd do partial reps in a power rack. We came up with a set that
included negatives, forced reps, partner-assisted reps, isometrics -- everything
came into play in the course of one single set. We moved the weight until
physically, absolutely, neither one of us could move it any more. The longer the
set, the harder it became and the more I knew it would work. Of course, there was a
huge benefit-to-risk ratio. I had to ask myself, "How far do I want to push a
contraction before it becomes detrimental?" I was willing to toy around in that red
zone."
A couple of points or take away message from his article. It brings to light the
variance of training styles during that time period. One, as I have stated in this
thread following someone else routine is a path for failure. You must over time
come to your own understanding of which training style works best for you in terms
of volume, style, rest, and intensity. Learn what you can as a training partner and
then use what is best suited for you. Do not be afraid of change. As I have stated
before I am a minority who believes today's bodybuilder under trains. Tom said he
could not grow using Arnold's method. I think he was exaggerating a bit when he
said he got fat, but instinctively I would think Arnold used the twice a day
training during his dieting phases. I like the area between both Tom's and Arnolds
methods for overall development. (FYI Tom's first Mr Olympia in 79 he was under
200lbs)
(One important side note, a quote from Tom in regards to his nutrition. "In the
70's we were all on the high-fat, high-protein diet; eating mostly eggs, tuna, and
other meats, basically restricting our carbohydrate intake. But let me tell you, I
had a lot of success in 1981, when I switched to a high carbohydrate low fat diet.
All of a sudden my body came together and I was like oh my God! I looked in the
mirror almost scared at how good the results were! I still obviously stuck to a
high protein diet but just limited the fat intake. I was in unbelievable condition,
and that was probably my best year ever by switching like that. As in eating and
nutrition, in workouts, periodic change is the secret. You know a lot of this is
done now with some of the gurus of the sport, but back then I was experimenting
with it".)
Second, in my humble opinion, Tom's methodology of training did not bring a

complete physique to the table. His intensity for training legs hurt the
development of the rest of his physique. I have learned this the hard way when it
comes to training advise. Those with extreme genetics for certain body parts can
sometimes do minimal effort or intensity and grow. Tom is the exception, he took
intensity to another level. I would take his technical training advice but I would
not follow his routines. For me personally, getting advise from the genetic elite
was fool harded AND A WASTE OF TIME. I have always listened to those who with
poorly developed body parts who over time and training knowledge developed them
into a balanced body part. I'll give you and example. I read a "ghost" article
written about 10 years ago written for a top pro about calf training. The reason I
took interest in this particular article was that pro had poorly developed calves
and had turned them into a body part that became in balance with the rest of his
physique. In other words his calves did not jump out at you like they had in the
past because they matched the development of his other parts.
I will go through that article here as it helped me tremendously. It was about an

exercise called the 100 rep set. Calves have always been my stubborn body part, and
I have always been open to training suggestions. Most were useless because they
were given by those who genetically gifted calves who did little to develop them.
The first part of the article went into the role of the calf muscle in dissipating
energy as the body moves in motion. This was important for me to understand as it
explained the mechanisms which helped the body conserve energy even though the
muscles were in contraction. Think of it like a spring board at a swimming pool.
The whole goal of the 100 rep set was to remove the leverage or spring and develop
a mind muscle connection to a non-levered movement.
I would advise everyone to try this at least once. It is simple to execute but
painful in the process. All you need is the standing calf raise machine. But in
order for this exercise to work you MUST take the ego out of the equation. Use ONLY
the first and second plates 30-45lbs and pin it there. The goal is to get to 100
reps. Rest periods are only 5 seconds or less.
This is the CRITICAL part, the rep must be smooth from top to bottom. No jerking or
stopping half way, and then using a bended knees to lever yourself up. ALL THE WAY
DOWN to a deep stretch AND THEN ALL THE WAY UP TO YOUR BALLS OF YOUR TOES IN ONE
SMOOTH CONTROLLED STROKE.
You may fail at 30 reps at first shot, step out for that 5 seconds and step
IMMEDIATELY back into the machine and continue. You may get another 20 straight
reps, again step out and back in until you hit 100. Why was this so important to
me? It created that mind muscle link in terms of what it felt like to train calves
without using the built in spring mechanism. They immediately responded to this
style.
Because the standing calf machine only hits the gastrocnemius, I would follow that
with seated calf raises but in normal fashion for the soleus.
You may not be able to walk for a few days if done right. Don't say I did not worn
you....
DrX
* TomP1.jpg (12.13 kB, 232x320 - viewed 582 times.)
* TPlatz2.jpg (14.01 kB, 180x320 - viewed 581 times.)

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roon12
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� Reply #321 on: January 24, 2014, 09:10:59 PM �
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Quote from: ChestRockwell on January 24, 2014, 04:22:03 PM
Quote from: DrX on December 15, 2013, 03:24:50 PM
I heard this list a few days ago on talk radio. 13 Things Mentally Strong People
Don't Do.
This was a great share, thanks for this DrX.
Agreed, very good read.
Although there is a slight irony to point 7. given the title/theme of this

thread :D
Log & stuff: http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=31497.0
ChestRockwell
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Don't Do.
This was a great share, thanks for this DrX.

it...
Salvatore24
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Don't Do.
It was written by Amy Morin in Communication, Motivation and I feel her list
pertains to not only to life but to certain aspects of bodybuilding too. You have
read many of the same ideas in this 70's-80's thread. She does explain things in a
better context.
Enjoy...
Thanks for posting that. I have been going through a rough patch the last 4 years,
just need to stop going about in pity for myself.
Diluted56
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I just read this thread and it is absolutely amazing, I love the old school
approach and complete full body, mind and spirit integrated into this journey!
My Log:
Sdmonster
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Excited to see! Looking foreword to further knowledge!
1500 test/1400 tren a
DrX
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my way!!!
Roosevelt
Albert Einstein
DrX

you."
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� Reply #315 on: December 15, 2013, 11:18:54 PM �
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Quote from: Gatts on November 24, 2013, 01:41:00 PM
Was seeking for some Momo Benazizza videos and i refind this:
Just take a close look to the quality,separation,maturity along with the perfect
size. That was bodybuilding!
Hope you don't mind for posting these videos here DrX ;)
great videos man

this is GREAT potential...19 year old that can end up A PRO bodybuilder before 29
with the right guidance
gh15 approved
DrX
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ReplyQuote
Don't Do.
It was written by Amy Morin in Communication, Motivation and I feel her list
pertains to not only to life but to certain aspects of bodybuilding too. You have
read many of the same ideas in this 70's-80's thread. She does explain things in a
better context.
Enjoy...
DrX
1. They Don't Waste Time Feeling Sorry for Themselves
Mentally strong people don't sit around feeling sorry about their circumstances or
how others have treated them. Instead, they take responsibility for their role in
life and understand that life isn't always easy or fair.
2. They Don't Give Away Their Power
They don't allow others to control them, and they don't give someone else power
over them. They don't say things like, My boss makes me feel bad, because they
understand that they are in control over their own emotions and they have a choice
in how they respond.
3. They Don't Shy Away from Change
Mentally strong people don't try to avoid change. Instead, they welcome positive
change and are willing to be flexible. They understand that change is inevitable
and believe in their abilities to adapt.
4. They Don't Waste Energy on Things They Can't Control
You won't hear a mentally strong person complaining over lost luggage or traffic
jams. Instead, they focus on what they can control in their lives. They recognize
that sometimes, the only thing they can control is their attitude.
5. They Don't Worry About Pleasing Everyone
Mentally strong people recognize that they don't need to please everyone all the
time. They're not afraid to say no or speak up when necessary. They strive to be
kind and fair, but can handle other people being upset if they didn't make them
happy.
6. They Don't Fear Taking Calculated Risks
They don't take reckless or foolish risks, but don't mind taking calculated risks.
Mentally strong people spend time weighing the risks and benefits before making a
big decision, and they're fully informed of the potential downsides before they
take action.
7. They Don't Dwell on the Past
Mentally strong people don't waste time dwelling on the past and wishing things
could be different. They acknowledge their past and can say what they've learned
from it. However, they don't constantly relive bad experiences or fantasize about
the glory days. Instead, they live for the present and plan for the future.
8. They Don't Make the Same Mistakes Over and Over
Mentally strong people accept responsibility for their behavior and learn from
their past mistakes. As a result, they don't keep repeating those mistakes over and
over. Instead, they move on and make better decisions in the future.
9. They Don't Resent Other People's Success
Mentally strong people can appreciate and celebrate other people's success in life.
They don't grow jealous or feel cheated when others surpass them. Instead, they
recognize that success comes with hard work, and they are willing to work hard for
their own chance at success.
10. They Don't Give Up After the First Failure
Mentally strong people don't view failure as a reason to give up. Instead, they use
failure as an opportunity to grow and improve. They are willing to keep trying
until they get it right.
11. They Don't Fear Alone Time
Mentally strong people can tolerate being alone and they don?t fear silence. They
aren't afraid to be alone with their thoughts and they can use downtime to be
productive. They enjoy their own company and aren't dependent on others for
companionship and entertainment all the time but instead can be happy alone.
12. They Don't Feel the World Owes Them Anything
Mentally strong people don't feel entitled to things in life. They weren't born
with a mentality that others would take care of them or that the world must give
them something. Instead, they look for opportunities based on their own merits.
13. They Don't Expect Immediate Results
Whether they are working on improving their health or getting a new business off
the ground, mentally strong people don't expect immediate results. Instead, they
apply their skills and time to the best of their ability and understand that real
change takes time.
you."
DrX
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Quote from: Ender on December 13, 2013, 04:24:24 AM
I just read this entire thread in one sitting. Dr X you may be the world's first
bodybuilder philosopher. What do you think about changing up lifting routines? For
instance, some advocate for lifting heavy/low reps one week and light weight/high
reps the next week. The theory, I guess, is that you are avoiding muscle
complacency, if there is such a thing. Your thoughts are appreciated. Great
thread!
Your statement made me laugh so hard I actually woke up the baby in the next room.
But thank you!! The term "philosophy" comes from the Greek word which means "love
of wisdom". So yes in some ways I am trying to impart my knowledge through a
systematic approach which would help achieve ones goals. I am ultimately concerned
with REALITY. One of my current agendas is to do a write up on how to train chest
correctly. I am having a VERY VERY difficult time putting this piece together
because what is being advocated today is the COMPLETE opposite of what I was taught
many years ago. Not many can see the REALITY of what is being "preached" and
utilized today is not producing the chests of the past. No one is asking why....
As to your question about changing up routines. I can only discuss what truly works
for me. We are all different in terms of how we respond to stimuli (resistance),
but all in all there have been some constants that will prevail over time. What it
comes down to in one word is INTENSITY. Your ability to develop maximum effort and
FOCUS during each set. Whether it is light week or heavy week. There are extremely
well known bodybuilders who only decide what they are going to train as they walk
through the gym door. Not only in terms of which body part, but the exercises, reps
ranges, and order of those exercises. Remember these are the genetic elite of the
elite. As far as I am concerned they can do just about anything any they will grow.
For me I need both efficiency, and maximum stimulation in the least amount of time.
I like to have my compound exercises up front before an isolation movements. Some
prefer the opposite. The compound movements are where I can elicit the most amount
of damage if you will.
How I avoid complacency is by simply changing where I do my drop sets. Some days I
will do this on exercise number one. Other days I'll drop set the last exercise. On
some weeks I'll even drop set EVERY exercise. I am not big into changing exercises
per body part. We will use chest as an example, one week you execute incline
dumbbells first, the following week incline smith, the following week incline
hammer strength. Why, because out the three, two for me are a waste of time and
effort in relation to each other. We will get to that when we cover chest. But in
the end the most important REALITY are the results!!!!!!!! Bodybuilding is a SELF
discovery sport. As I have said before following others is a road to failure. It is
all about personal trial and error. And most importantly acknowledging failure when
it arrives and be willing to adapt and react to that failure.
DrX
you."
Boarding
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� Reply #312 on: December 13, 2013, 06:10:06 AM �
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Here are some recent pictures to share with the GH15 community taken last weekend.
However, I was thrown a monkey wrench a bit early into my completion of the diet
phase. I was four weeks away from where I planned to take pictures where I hoped to
be a completely peeled, finished and polished, but had to stop early. My wife seems
she may go into early labor with our first baby. So my wife and I had to quickly
take some photos (some artsy) of each other to remember the past, before the baby
is born.
I have no clue how this beautiful new life will change our lifestyles, but it will
be for the best...
My ultimate goal as a bodybuilder is to build and refine a physique similar to the

look in the late 70's and early 80's. To me, it is a thick, dense, full appearance.
Because of the thickness from side to side accompanied with tight small abdominals
and waist, these past bodybuilders always appeared heavier in weight. For me it has
been a constant learning curve achieving this goal. There is so much conflicting,
sometime misleading information out there from the training styles, to the diet,
the AAS used, to the cardio, and most importantly the approach in the off-season
time of growth.
Well gentlemen, work is still in progress....
DrX
Amazing job bro, congrats. Any front shots

ReplyQuote
I just read this entire thread in one sitting. Dr X you may be the world's first
bodybuilder philosopher. What do you think about changing up lifting routines? For
instance, some advocate for lifting heavy/low reps one week and light weight/high
reps the next week. The theory, I guess, is that you are avoiding muscle
complacency, if there is such a thing. Your thoughts are appreciated. Great
thread!
hughjarms
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Impressive chest, this is the look I'm going to go for
bardin
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/\ fucking inspiring dude :D amazing... damn :)
Gh15er !!
DrX
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My mind is running a million miles per hour as I reflect on how difficult the day
has been. What could have gone wrong went wrong. I walk into the gym hoping to find
a quiet corner on the weight floor. My place of solitude. After a few warm up
sets... it's time!!!!!
I can hear the loud music playing in my earpiece as I grip the cold iron bar of the
rack. I feel the torn writs straps dig deep into my palms. I close my eyes, feel
the heavy weight bearing down......and then.......for a moment in time the world
goes quiet.
I can't see, feel, taste or hear anything. The set has begun. I want 12 perfect
reps. My mind counts out aloud 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-------8----9----11--------12-------
13---------14---------15.
I open my eyes to all my scenes coming back to me. A gentle smile comes over my
face as I realize that I have 3 heavier sets to go. It's actually going to turn out
to be a great day.
DrX
* straps.jpg (38.77 kB, 556x417 - viewed 209 times.)

you."
Jc456
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I had a chance to read through your cycle thread, but first I'll address your first
question as it actually relates to the overall answer given. Before we begin we
have to define "thick skin". What is it? It is not what your actually invision or
literally having a thick layer of outer skin. But it is a combination of skin with
subcutaneous fat and water directly below it. I have had very thick skin when I
first began training just like most of you. I was not blessed in that genetics
department either. However with time and learning how to diet down and bulk up
correctly the skin changes just as the body does. Each and every time I dieted to
sub 6% the skin losses additional water and fat beneath it and becomes thinner and
thinner OVER TIME.
When it comes to vascularity and skin thickness the same principals apply. It is
not really about which AAS brings out veins. Does EQ work better then masterone
etc.....They ALL do to some extent because of increased blood volume. What it comes
down to again is body fat and water retention. I get the SAME vascularity whether I
use tren, eq deca, test even anadrol. Continued conditioning is the key. Now for an
interesting question, how do you increase vascularity? I explained it has little to
do with AAS selection. It has to with the true understand the role of veins play in
the body. Veins carry deoxygenated blood and waste from tissues back TO the heart.
The more muscle and tissue you develop over time the more waste and deoxygenated
blood that needs to be returned to the heart thus the requirement for bigger and
more efficient veins. This is a personal observation but the off-season of growth
is where new and larger veins are created to handle all that increased, and
excessive metabolic waste. When you weigh an additional 30-60lbs in the offseason
they must carry all that waste from tissues UP against gravity. They adapt (grow
bigger) and react (become more efficient), but remain after the bulking phases.
Each time I diet down from a heavier weight there are substantially new veins and
thinner skin. Growing lean NEVER produced the veins a good bulking offseason
provides. Many of you will observe this over time.....
As to your thread, I'm not sure if I can honestly help. You have excellent advise
given to you already. If you read my ENTIRE thread you will understand I advocate
old school methods for growth. That includes SIGNIFICANT time away from the cutting
compounds and focusing in on the estrogen based growth side of the equation. You
mentioned getting fatter in not an option. So you truly have to define yourself.
Are you a bodybuilder of more interested in the fitness/beach look. They are
mutually exclusive from each other in may ways. Truthfully, my methods would not
work for you.
Lets say you had a twin brother who you set up a one on one competition. You gave
each other ONE year to stand next to each other. You continued on your exact path
and he decided to spend a year focusing on developing a new solid base with plenty
of good food and utilizing a base of the Four horseman: Test/deca/Adrol/dbol. You
kept your tren and mast because your were more concerned with your abs and how you
look RIGHT NOW. He did not care what he looked like but only on the day of your
competition. Yes you will look better the him 70% of the year condition wise. But
come the day of your competition, providing he knows how to diet correctly, he will
look completely different from you. One will look like a bodybuilder.
DrX
DrX your posts really speak to me.
When I first started training, it was with my brother. This was almost 15 years ago
now. He was always naturally leaner than I was, and more concerned with being lean.
I was a fat kid, and actually never really bothered about being fat in a
bodybuilding sense. Once I started training I had enough shape that I would be
considered big and "in shape" by the general public so long periods of getting
bigger where I didn't look as sharp as I could have done never really concerned me.
So I went up and down in weight many times over those years, initially natural and
later enhanced. Just this year I went up to 230lbs, I didn't look great lol but I
was huge and very strong. I gradually leaned down to my weight now of 200lbs. Over
the years the weight at which I look best, has gradually increased and the weight I
bulk up to has gradually increased as well. So now I'm the leanest I've ever been
at 200lbs. Being 230lbs earlier this year was massively uncomfortable and my waist
ballooned up but it worked. I'm debating going up again now back to 230lbs and then
see what I look like at 200lbs once again. I bet it'll be leaner still.
Out of interest, I've always been far, far more vascular than my brother and anyone
I know. I credit this to being a former fatty and a lot heavier than what I am now.

Powerlifting/Weightlifting Section Moderator.
robbert
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Wow what a great post DrX. Subbed and . following
Started Juicing August 29 2013

Gatts
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Great post on thick skin my friend! I've also have it :-\ but you give me hope to
get super thin skin contest condition without have to spend 1000s on pharma gh :)
Keep the posts coming out brother! Really love them!
Just a short video from the times where bodybuiling was not a stupid cult :'( but
a lifestyle and that includes the brotherhood and friendship between the golden era
bodybuilders!
Confucius
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Quote from: bardin on December 06, 2013, 08:22:02 PM
im subbing to this, looking amazing man... have you ever had to battle against
thick skin of any kind ? strugling with that myself right now =/
also, if possible, take a look at my cycle cycle cycle thread and lemme know ur
opinion :D would be amazing :D
thinner OVER TIME.
interesting question, how do increase vascularity? I explained it has little to do
with AAS selection. It has to with the true understand the role of veins play in
excessive metabolic waste. When you weigh and additional 30-60lbs in the offseason
they must carry all that waste from tissues UP against gratify. They adapt (grow
work for you.
DrX
W O W !
cant put into words how much i appreciate that output man :D thank you very much...
WOW !! so much knowledge...
right now i do wanna get some abs, dry and more aesthetic and enjoy it for a couple
weeks before bulking up properly... i never ever looked good my entire life, i
wanna get there asap and enjoy it for a while... then i will bulk up and put on
serious mass, but only once im sure i can get that dry, shredded look... and ofc,
after enjoying it a little bit...
i understood everything you said... i will definatly follow your methods later on,
right now im more in a fitness shape kind of pursuit, so i will wait more to put
your ideas to work, but will keep following this ofc :D
thank you very much sir, for the amazing answer !!!
keep strong !
Gh15er !!
DrX
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Quote from: bardin on December 06, 2013, 08:22:02 PM
thinner OVER TIME.
interesting question, how do you increase vascularity? I explained it has little to
do with AAS selection. It has to with the true understand the role of veins play in
excessive metabolic waste. When you weigh an additional 30-60lbs in the offseason
they must carry all that waste from tissues UP against gravity. They adapt (grow
work for you.
DrX
you."
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Gh15er !!
roon12
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Awesome list, thanks Gatts!
Bob Paris = my goal physique :)

Gatts
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Unfortunatly todays fellas can't be compared to the old school guys in terms of
hardness, condition, thickness... Weight means nothing! Theses guys have the weight
distributed for the right places and don't have the massive gutts and thick waists!
No baloon aka rubber doll look too!
They were pure solid muscle without water and fat! 92 Mr O was one of the best
ever! I think it was about 94/95 that the fall starts, reaching the deep botom
nowadays with those pro shows that in my opinion have nothing to do with
bodybuilding. Just go watch this year Arnold classic and only 4 of the 13
competitors did not have that disgusting gut :'(
In regards to bodyweight there were two years where an official weightin was done:
1988 and 1990:
1988:
1-Lee Haney- 5'11' 243.25lbs
2- Rich Gaspari- 5'8'' 209.5lbs
3-Berry Demay- 6'1'' 227lbs
4-Lee Labrada - 5'4'' 176lbs
5-Gary Strydom- 6'2'' 229lbs
6- Mike Quinn- 5'9'' 204lbs
7-Brian Buchanan- 5'10'' 210lbs
8-Samir Bannout- 5'8'' 205lbs
9-Ron Love- 6' 222.5lbs
10-Bob Paris-6' 226lbs

11-Mohamed Benaziza-5'3'' 188lbs
12-Phil Hill- 5'8'' 222.5lbs
13-Shawn Ray-5'7'' 201.5lbs
14-Mike Ashley-5'8'' 189.5lbs
15-Albert Beckles-5'7'' 200lbs
16-Eduardo Kawak- 5'7'' 215lbs
17-Robby Robinson- 5'7'' 216.5lbs
18-Peter Hensel-5'10'' 240.5lbs
19- Luiz Freitas-5'8'' 219.5lbs
20- Ralf Moeller- 6'5'' 288lbs
1990:
-Lee Labrada-5'4'',185lbs
-Francis Benfatto- 5'5'', 170lbs
-Samir Bannout- 5'8'', 205lbs
-Shawn Ray- 5'7'', 198lbs
-Lee Haney- 5'11', 230lbs
-Rich Gaspari- 5'8'', 207lbs
-Mike Christian-6'1'', 245lbs
-Ron Love- 6'0'', 225lbs
-Bernard Sealy, 5'6'', 176lbs
-Eddie Robinson, 5'7'', 215lbs
-Frank Hillebrand, 5'10'', 200lbs
-Jean Favre, 6'1'', 220lbs
-Andreas Munzer- 5'8'', 195lbs
-Mike Quinn, 5'9'', 210lbs
Weight means nothing!
I've only notice how short was Momo Benaziza yesterday. he was 2'' short than
Labrada...
Confucius
DrX
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Thank you Gatts, those are gems!!! To put things into perspective, that era ALWAYS
grossly overstated body weight and height. The question, what was Dorian Yates true
weight when he won the Helsinki Mr Olympia? My best guess was between 220-230lbs.
Kevin was second and the third place winner Lee Labrada competed at a weight
between 185-190lbs. Sean Ray was closer to the mid 190's. How would today's
bodybuilders compare in terms of volume, thickness, and density at the SAME weight
to that era?
That's the interesting million dollar question...
And what accounts for the difference in thickness. (and the answer in my opinion
has to do with which AAS are used and when)
As for Momo, he passed away in the Netherlands after competing in back-to-back

competitions which was right after that 1992 Mr Olympia.
DrX
you."
Gatts
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Was seeking for some Momo Benazizza videos and i refind this:
Just take a close look to the quality,separation,maturity along with the perfect
size. That was bodybuilding!
Hope you don't mind for posting these videos here DrX ;)
Confucius
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Quote from: roon12 on November 22, 2013, 10:29:35 AM
Quote from: pellius on November 22, 2013, 07:26:05 AM
What do you mean by saying that the rehydration process is the tricky one? I would
think that would be the easy part.
The re-hydration process depends on which diuretic the athlete is on. If they were
on a Potassium sparing diuretic, like in the case with Momo while consuming high
levels of potassium carbohydrate containing foods AND severely restricting fluid
intake will likely cause a hyperkalemic environment. If at the hospital, doctors
will assume a typical dehydrated athlete due to loss water and assume a hypokalemic
state. What if blood levels are not checked and they accidentally administer
electrolytes high in potassium? Well this is what happened to Momo which caused
heart failure.
DrX
I'm not following. You said rehydration process. Why would you severely restrict
fluid intake? That doesn't sound like "rehydration" to me. Maybe I'm missing
something.
Not Dr. X but from what I understand that part is still talking about the
DEhydration stage. So you end up with a process as follows:
- Dehydration: potassium sparing diuretic + high carb/potassium foods + severely

restricted water
This leads to a state of dehydration but with elevated potassium levels
- Rehydration: The assumption will be that the dehydrated state is caused by water
loss and thus it will be assumed that electrolytes are also lost unless a blood
test is done. Therefore fluids and electrolytes will be administered that may be
high in potassium, causing Hyperkalemia leading to cardiac arrythmia
Ah. I see. Thanks for the clarification.

DrX
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Quote from: roon12 on November 22, 2013, 10:29:35 AM
heart failure.
DrX
something.

restricted water
Yes!!! Thank you roon12 for taking the time!!! My explanation may have been a bit
confusing.
DrX
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heart failure.
DrX
something.

restricted water
pellius
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heart failure.
DrX
something.
DrX
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heart failure.
DrX
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DrX - If I'm not mistaken didn't both Momo and Andreas Munzer get their pro cards
by winning their classes @ the World Championships - a tested event? They may
have both won the same year if but I'm not certain. These tested events - do they
think people are completely guilable?
In order to change your life you must change you physiology, you must change your
focus my friends - -
All statements I make are fictitious and for entertainment value only.
If I don't tell the truth I'm lying - if I tell the truth I'm cheating. What I'm
cheating @ is beyond me -
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I purposely chose those two videos for the dealer thread for two main reasons. Both
Paul De Mayo and Mike Francois in my opinion were two bodybuilders who would over
time DOMINATE bodybuilding for many years to come. But both their respective
careers were cut very short. We never got a chance to see their full and absolute
potential. Paul De Mayo also know to us back then as "Quadzilla" battled metal
issues and was never 100% focused due to major life issues and demons he faced. He
died before he really got started. Mike on the other hand was taken out of the game
due to kidney issues. Many names like Flex Wheeler, Don Long, Tom Prince, to name a
few of his generation also left early due to the same issue. We can only conjecture
the cause of the kidney issues. My best guess these issues came from a combination
of EXTREME high blood pressure, the constant abuse of diuretics, and pain killers.
What went on behind the scenes with blood expanders and exotic second generation
diuretics will only be known by them. This later generation were the MASTERS of
diuretics. It was very common to hear X bodybuilder was pulled out an HOUR before a
competitions due to "food poisoning". They ALWAYS used the term food poisonings
back then. But we all knew what it was. Why, because it was common to see them
cramp up on stage and get carried off due to the severe pain they were in. This era
took conditioning to a another level of extremes!!!! There was even death due to
diuretics immediately post competition as they tried to rehydrate themselves
(Mohammed Benaziza). And there were many many more close to that edge. Re-hydration
my friends was an EXTREMELY tricky process when they were that depleted and
dehydrated!!!!!!
Why is this important! Well again to set up realistic goals for yourself. I'll say
this again and again, the videos and pictures you see especially in the late 80's
and 90's are a snap shot in time where the competitor looked their absolute best.
They may look like happy campers on stage but some were suffering and close to
death. That look was ONLY maintained for a FEW HOURS to a day at most. They were
not socializing around town at those extreme conditions post pictures of their abs
every two weeks like today. You need to understand this important point. The rest
of the year they were back in growth mode, COVERED UP and EATING. Were the
bodybuilders of that era proportionate with a look that appealed to main stream,
absolutely. Today's look as we all know is very different, not only in terms of
conditioning and proportion, but the degree of actual true lean muscle tissue. The
degree of expected conditioning is not to the extreme as it was back then. In other
words even though our modern look may be worse, they are '"healthier" the day of
the contest. And I'll loosely use the word healthy.
So if you aspire to look like this understand the trade off that has occurred over
the years, size vs conditioning. Each comes with double edge sword.
This was Mohammed Benaziza (Momo):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6W0fHqX1mo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M42L4mjImQ
DrX
* Paul.jpg (15.88 kB, 186x270 - viewed 245 times.)

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please never stop posting in this thread, am still reading through it all DRX
really love learning about all your theories about oldschool bodybuilding look!
"suppressing appetite is just a plus. you would do some real stupid things when
you're super hungry. i'm not talking "my stomach is growling", i'm talking "food
now or i'll stab you" - buselmo
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Holy shit @ the 1988 NABBA Worlds video. The winner looked ridiculous. Amazing the
look that they pulled off in the 80's. They were all shredded but muscles still
looked like they were full and pumped.
-Team Metal-
*Construction in Progress*
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Well done I think you pulled off the 70's aesthetics very effectively. Your chest
density is your best feature.
Check out my channel JuggernautFitnessTV:http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNqbcf-
5nORpyfzrqQNLSVw
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I loved the write up on the "dealer" Drx, such a great post, and very thought
provoking.
Drum
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Great thread Dr.X and awesome post 'the Dealer'.
Thanks for taking the time.
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The Michael Jackson 1984 video. Damn what a perfect specimen.
P
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Subbed to follow progress.
Educational thread.
you go to girlfriend...you fuck her upside down ..she go shower aftr right? you
stay dirty with her cum on your cock and go to her desk go on gh15 and post for 10
min till she is done then go take shower yourself ...
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I love this thread!!
Whenever I get impatient with the rate of progress or just get tempted to throw in
more compounds I read this for some perspective.
At some point and time you have to be objective and revalue progress and goals. But
they must be realistically based on TIME, experience, protocols and GENETICS.
So the question is where do you turn to for advice when you FINALLY realize
somethings not right. You have massive cross currents here at GH15. How do you comb
through the threads for concrete solid advice when everyone is pulling you in
different directions. For me personally, it comes down to final execution of a
physique or end product!
Let me explain with another life story. My passion in life outside of the family,
and bodybuilding is the stock market and trading. I have been doing this for quite
some years now, first learning the basics of the stock market, then it's bigger
brother the bond, option and currency markets. I made my mistakes, then relearned
and reevaluated trading practices to this very day. You should remain humble early
in this endeavor. My wife's close friends husband also trades the market, but is
very boisterous and loud when it comes to his trades. He will MAKE SURE to let me
know when when he has made profitable trades. He trades very big positions and gets
aggressive thus emotionally tied to his positions. He is more of a gambler then a
trader in my opinion. We are opposites in a way, as I like to remain quite and
build on my positions, and have no emotional ties when I am wrong. I read my own
economic data everyday, and do not listen to the talking heads on CNBC propping up
their books. I have to come up with my own theses daily depending on numerous
variables (current economics, fundamentals and technicals).
Also because of my business I am not in front of a computer all day and cannot
babysit my positions, so I have a very different trading style then him. So taking
his advice would not work with my trading style. It is a risk to reward in terms of
timing and conditions. The term risk to reward was actually was taught to me in the
stock market and has very similar properties to bodybuilding.
His wife mentioned to my wife that even though he makes "good" trades from time to
time he actually loses money every year. She has to supplement his trading account
with their savings. He has NOT LEARNED over the years due to his ego, trading
style, and a very rigid/stubborn view. So lets take a step back and ask a few
questions.
Can he trade? The answer is yes. He can execute trades.
Second and MOST IMPORTANT question? Is he a profitable successful trader? No he is

not!!!! You need to understand the differences!!!!
Lets ask the same question when viewing threads related to bodybuilding. Is the
advice I am getting from someone who is a BODYBUILDER? Is this person a successful
bodybuilder? How do you VERIFY they are successful? Are they aggressive and
reckless like my wife's friends husband.
Because of very limited time, I take the same approach to advise here or any other
information based web site. I need quality over quantity of information. There is
no time to comb through threads looking for advise when half of the answers are
incorrect, made up, bro science, or at times just ego based.
So just like trading, I have to base who I listen to on the their final or interim
product. But not compared to today's narrow standards, but the thick 3-dimentional
physiques I have been accustomed to seeing in the past on very different and even
lower doses and AAS protocols.
Say your dieting down to sub 5% (NOT 8-10%) for a bodybuilding show and your asking
questions. Lets quantify statements you will see from advice givers. My first and
favorite, "I got ripped, cut, lost fat on X, Y and Z". So what is ripped?
Is RIPPED the standard for a small city gym? Is ripped the look for a pool party
in Vegas? Is ripped the fitness look physique? Is ripped equivalent to today's
professional bodybuilding standards, or does ripped mean what was achieved in the
80's and 90's. They are vastly different!!! So you are going to follow someones
advice when you hear the words "I got ripped" without any standards or proof?
REALLY!!!!
DrX
Make sure they have walked the entire walk....

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Re: DrX Photos:70-80's Protocol. The Environment Pg8

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I'm also going for the 70's look and I have learned than nandrolones (mainly npp)
are my best friends
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Quote from: Drum on September 08, 2013, 04:57:32 PM
DrX, in your last post you mention splitting back into 2 workouts... how do you
personally go about this? I imagine maybe a vertical-plane day and a row day?
Thanks.
I have updated my temporary training split due to the new baby and time factors.
This was the routine prior to the baby, and will be re-implemented soon.
Yes you are correct!! I no longer dead-lift anymore. Stopped many years ago as it
began to cause major lower back issues. Wish I would have stopped much earlier in
my pursuit of a thick back. You learn as you go along. So I focus on my back by
splitting it up into two days. First are vertical lifts with hamstrings. The
exercises are straight bar pull downs (false grip), reverse grip straight bar pull
downs, body weight pull ups (false grip) , hammer strength iso-Lateral wide pull-
downs, and straight bar pull overs on the triceps machine.
The second is a row, thickening day with calves. This includes cable rows with the
v grip handles (false grip), Dumbbell rows over the dumbbell rack for back support.
Palms face the front of legs with a false grip. Dumbbell rows on flat bench, hammer
strength iso-lateral low rows and a plate loaded rear back pull machine.
DrX

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Quote from: thewrongadvices on September 05, 2013, 04:39:53 PM
Quote from: OdyOdd on September 03, 2013, 11:46:07 AM
Quote from: DrX on September 03, 2013, 01:00:55 AM
While I have a few moments let me have the opportunity to tackle a bro-science
comment I keep seeing from time to time. When pictures of bodybuilders from the
past are compared to present physiques this statement pops up from time to time.
"They had better access to pharma grade or better quality AAS then we have today".
I am not a fan of this excuse as to the drop in physique quality.
You here at GH15 have unequivocally some of the best sources that have ever been
available. I would actually say even better then the gold standards because the
doses per ml are much more efficient. So what accounts for the differences? Simply,
the mind set and aas compounds used then vs today's overly complicated view!!!
Hence this thread...
There is now a massive CONFUSION of advice which has blurred the world between the
fitness/model protocol and the pre-insulin bodybuilding protocol. They are vastly
different and will lead to a separate paths thus end results.To put things into
perspective the Matty4 Fitness Q/A on the AAS section is a must read. He honestly
puts forth the life of a fitness competitor. Thus his AAS tools are NOT used for
growth, but maintenance. Take a note of what is used! He needs to be within
striking distance of body fat levels at all times to be competitive. There is no
time for growth, and it seems a tougher time then bodybuilding because he never
gets a break both mentally, and socially due to demands of the industry. We get
that break during the critical feel good growth phase, and more importantly we get
that balance back that leads to longevity!!!
So the question is which are you? Are you a fitness competitor or a bodybuilder?
The goals and paths are not the same...
DrX
But to get to fitness competitor size you surely still will have to grow some
still. Some of these fitness competitor are pretty big.
Great question. Here comes another question? What is big? Big to you, may actually
be small to me. There are 4 competitive fitness guys at my gym. To be honest, I
would not consider them to be big in any way. They have abs, but the rest of their
bodies are completely underdeveloped and soft, especially the arms and back.
This leads to another aspect that blurs lines which are the training methods. The
fitness routine is very different from the traditional bodybuilding training
secession. I have two separate days for legs. One for quads, and a day for
hamstrings. Why, because I know the overall development of my physique is
CRITICALLY tied into the exercises I implement. I still have my personal theory
today's standards of under-training, and overuse of the incorrect AAS is part of
the problem.
Would a fitness competitor getting advice from a bodybuilder be happy in the

interim? Probably not!!
Would a bodybuilder getting advise from a fitness competitor be happy in the
Would an advanced bodybuilder using insulin giving cycle advice using the same
protocols without insulin be happy in the interim? Probably not!!!!!
DrX
You mention here about under training today. Can you expand a little on this DrX?
Are you talking specifically about volume, frequency, or something else?
All the above actually!! Here is my philosophy. One major body part per week with
the exception of abs and calves. They can be trained twice a week. If you know how
to split back apart you can also have two days for back, but that's a bit tricky.
If on insulin, the frequency changes depending on dose and experience. Now to the
key word FAILURE. I see advise here never to go to failure just stop short. I
highly disagree. This only works for the EXTREMELY genetically gifted responders.
Each and EVERY of my sets with the exception of the first warm up set not only goes
to failure, but my training partners will spot and push me past that point of
failure. The key for a good spotter is to keep in me in a perfect "piston" rhythm
during the set.
Now to another aspect of training for me, which is INTENSITY. Not only will I take
every set past failure, But will incorporate one drop set on one final heavy set. I
will rotate the drop set week to week from exercise to exercise to shock that body
part. We can use chest as an example. I have four different exercises for chest
with 4-5 sets each. One week the drop set will be utilized on the first exercise.
The following week in the second finial heavy set and so forth. The drop set will
usually have 3 reductions in wight immediately stripped off with NO REST. Time in
the gym 50mins or so to 1hr and 15mins. No more that that...
DrX
Couple of key points I need to add:
1) The intensity and volume above is utilized during growth calorie surplus phases.
During a calorie restriction/higher cardio cutting phase I would limit the drop
sets.
2) The role of the spotter is NOT to lift the weights for you!! But to gently GLIDE
or move you past the sticking point of the lift.
3) You should be in control on each and very set including the drop sets..
I had mentioned this in an earlier response. Two of the most important but
forgotten pieces of help or equipment that can make or break you are: A cardio
machine at home. And a very reliable, highly motivated training partner who KNOWS
how to spot. They are hard to find...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKnNpi81cCs
DrX
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Quote from: Drum on September 08, 2013, 05:03:07 PM
I'm not DrX, but I do lower back with legs, and upper back with shoulders because
of the crossover with rear delts and traps.
Sounds good man I see the logic, what do you do for your lower back aside from
deads?
For lower back I simply do stiff leg deads and deep squats, both of which are
partially lower back.
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Sounds good man I see the logic, what do you do for your lower back aside from
deads?
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Drum
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DrX, in your last post you mention splitting back into 2 workouts... how do you
personally go about this? I imagine maybe a vertical-plane day and a row day?
Thanks.
thewrongadvices
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Thanks for the reply DrX. I actually work in a very similar way to yourself, but I
usually train alone so I can't do assisted reps, so I use drop sets quite a lot.
DrX
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DrX
the problem.

DrX
All the above actually!! Here is my philosophy. One major body part per week with
the exception of abs and calves. They can be trained twice a week. If you know how
to split back apart you can also have two days for back, but that's a bit tricky.
If on insulin, the frequency changes depending on dose and experience. Now to the
key word FAILURE. I see advise here never to go to failure just stop short. I
highly disagree. This only works for the EXTREMELY genetically gifted responders.
Each and EVERY of my sets with the exception of the first warm up set not only goes
to failure, but my training partners will spot and push me past that point of
failure. The key for a good spotter is to keep in me in a perfect "piston" rhythm
during the set.
Now to another aspect of training for me, which is INTENSITY. Not only will I take
every set past failure, But will incorporate one drop set on one final heavy set. I
will rotate the drop set week to week from exercise to exercise to shock that body
part. We can use chest as an example. I have four different exercises for chest
with 4-5 sets each. One week the drop set will be utilized on the first exercise.
The following week in the second finial heavy set and so forth. The drop set will
usually have 3 reductions in wight immediately stripped off with NO REST. Time in
the gym 50mins or so to 1hr and 15mins. No more that that...
DrX
you."
thewrongadvices
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DrX
the problem.

DrX
OdyOdd
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DrX
the problem.

DrX
Thanks for the answer. You mention some good points. The average person thinks im
big. I get called big fella every day. However im pretty sure you would think im
quite small. Hell I think im really small.
Im talking about the bigger fitness competitor around. I'm sure some of them are
about as big as some of the bodybuilders in the 70's.
I love the 70's look. Its the look im going for. At first I thought all I needed
was tren to get to that point. However after 1.5 year of use im no where near the
level yet. I envy the guys I see on this board that blew up using tren. Tren made
my physique look very 'pretty'. I got compliments dailly but no way did it give me
big amount of size.
It is actually your thread that inspired me to drop the tren for a while and use
hormones like deca to try to grow the next year. I dont mind anymore getting a bit
bloofy if that's what it takes to get me to my goal.
Odd
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Quote
I grew up in an environment where men were very masculine. There were no abs or
shaved chests, lotion-ed soft skin. Every man shook your hands with a tough, rough
grip. I grew up on WWF wrestling, Toney Atlas, Hulk Hogan, British Bull Dogs, and
the Iron Shek. Movies has actors with muscle, from Arnold's, Conan and Commando, to
Sylvester Stallone's Rocky Movies. Men where men. They knew the roll and did not
apologize for being men. This had an impact on what I wanted to look like. I want
to look like them.
SPOT ON..i feel sorry for the kids that are growing up now... Who the fuck are they
gonna look up to ? Mylei Cyrus, Bieber... absolutely disgraceful, generation
nothingness or should i call it generation estrogen
DrX
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DrX
the problem.

DrX
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DrX
Raul
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Quote from: quadzilla on August 26, 2013, 05:25:45 PM
nice! love reading these posts!!! btw, you said today we have Beaver as our
physical role model? who is Beaver? lol
LOL....
My bad, I meant the famous spitter on fans, Justin Bieber.....
This is societies new muscular.....
I believe in a few years from now someone will introduce hormones to Mr.Bieber....
its part of his industry anyway..
?dani desmarchais?
GH15ER TILL DEATH
roon12
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Love these 'lifestyle' posts! They definitely help avoid the confusion and mixed
messages regarding 'growing lean' and what that actually means.
DrX
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DrX
you."
DrX
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Quote from: quadzilla on August 26, 2013, 05:25:45 PM
LOL....
My bad, I meant the famous spitter on fans, Justin Bieber.....
This is societies new muscular.....
* bieber.jpg (23.71 kB, 605x453 - viewed 211 times.)

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DrX
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The environment!!
"Everyone wants to get big but no one wants to lift heavy ass weight" Ronnie
Coleman
"Everyone wants to get big but no one wants to get fat" DrX
On Sundays my whole immediate family makes it a point to have dinner together. We
each take it in turns as to the "menu" for the night. I train quads on Sundays to
take advantage of the calories in the meals and family day. I get to eat whatever I
want for that Sunday dinner that includes weeks where I am dieting too. It was my
turn Sunday to choose, and I wanted pancakes and eggs for dinner. Which includes
all the fixings like butter, maple syrup, fruit, (even cereal in milk too)......
Bring it!!
Well right when we sat down to eat last night, I had to disturb dinner with one of
my famous hamstring spasms. They hurt like no other. My only way to get them to
relax is to walk around the dinner table and house for a few minutes. My mom was
holding the new 8 week baby, and she began to talk to him and let him know his
daddy is an absolute nut case (and she is right). She held him up to watch me limp
around the dinner table for a few rounds. As she put it "your daddy is CRAZY".
She began to tell the family a story I had forgotten about which happened when I
was in the 4th grade (8-9yrs old). My parents business was only a mile away from
home and once a week they would get a big delivery of goods. On one particular
Tuesday truck were two drivers of insane proportions. They were both bodybuilders!!
They were gigantic muscular men. They wore these faded blue polyester like shirts
with the sleeves cut and rolled all the way up to their shoulders exposing these
vascular thick arms. During the summer I would actually ride my bicycle down to
the business just to watch them unload and load that truck (CooCoo). Who does
that???? My mom would take advantage of my strange obsession by bringing home
cooked meals to eat right in front of the two drivers. They would always say to me
"if you want to be big and strong eat your mom's vegetables!!!"
Regardless of how big they were, they always treated me with kindness. My mom
referred to them last night as "gentle giants".
I grew up in an environment where men were very masculine. There were no abs or
shaved chests, lotion-ed soft skin. Every man shook your hands with a tough, rough
grip. I grew up on WWF wrestling, Toney Atlas, Hulk Hogan, British Bull Dogs, and
the Iron Shek. Movies has actors with muscle, from Arnold's, Conan and Commando, to
Sylvester Stallone's Rocky Movies. Men where men. They knew the roll and did not
apologize for being men. This had an impact on what I wanted to look like. I want
to look like them.
My first gym and only gym available in the area for bodybuilders back then was the
local YMCA. There were no commercial gyms, or private establishments then. We were
a small community of freaks. I learned a lot from my early years. The most
important aspect of that world was there was always someone there to teach you
lifting techniques. I learned how to squat from a female power-lifter. She took the
time to show me the difference between a power-lifter squat to a bodybuilding
squat. From where the bar sits on the traps, to the grip, to the hip and chest
positions for leverage. All the bodybuilders in my area trained in this gym.
Unless someone was dieting for a competition everyone was covered up and bloated.
It was actually a very intimate environment where we all knew each other. Unlike
today's commercial gyms where few know or care to know each other.
So based on my world, it is easy for me to let go and put on some fat on and grow
(notice I said some, not more then 10-12%). Every bodybuilder in the past that you
have admired did the same. Why, they also grew up in that environment too.
Today we have Beaver (Bieber) as our physical roll model. All movies contain actors
dumb-ed down in size to accommodate the new view of what "men" should look like.
Why is this important. Because I understand and can see the resistance of many of
the younger generation of bodybuilders letting go of the "abs" to really grow. It
is very foreign when today's society wants you small and "cute". Everything around
us today supports a softer, feminine man. Even our sport has to accommodate the new
trend with physique competitions. It disappoints me in certain ways. As a body-
BUILDER, my goal is the equal progression and GROWTH of ALL body parts
symmetrically. It would kill me to have to cover up my legs, bring down my arms,
traps and chest to compete in this new physique world. But the sad part is, I also
cannot compete in today's modern world of quantity over quality bodybuilding era
either.
I will stay an old school BODYBUILDER for now, and I will not apologize for getting
fat either.
DrX
Here are pictures of one of my favorite old school bodybuilders. His name is Lee
Labrada. He was born in 1960 and competed in the mid 80's to mid 90's. What I
admired about him was his extreme conditioning in all contests. It was ALWAYS
second to none. But more importantly today, he looks healthy and maintains what
what I consider to be an ideal physique.....
How did he do it? I will not know. Did he have a holistic (risk vs reward) view
too? Or was it pure luck of great genetics?
My guess is he was very smart and analytical to his approach on everything....
* LeeLabrada1.jpg (30.59 kB, 433x600 - viewed 212 times.)
* LeeLabrada3.jpg (137.17 kB, 960x640 - viewed 211 times.)

you."
DrX
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Quote from: uL7iMa on August 24, 2013, 07:32:44 AM
Awesome thread! Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, DrX
When you speak about tren and its peripheral damages, what are you referring to?
The feeling of unhealthiness? Also, what are your thoughts on long-term deca
Globalge, which has been known to cause health problems?
Remember these are MY personal side effects that occur with tren. Your experience
with tren may be very different!!!.
When I refer to peripheral damage there are concrete negative consequences to other
key bodily functions. First and foremost, tren causes me to be very edgy. Small
very inconsequential life events that I would never respond to, become MAGNIFIED.
My personal life suffers with the wife, new baby, my business, family, employees
and close friends. I find I need to be isolated more. But in my world, I cannot
continue to do this, especially now. Before I was married and single it was ok...
Now it is too selfish.
The feeling of unhealthiness comes from the lethargy that comes with Tren. And I do
mean extreme lethargy especially when dieting. The mind is not sharp, and the body
refuses to move at times. I felt this was part of the suffering required, but as I
removed tren on the last two dieting phases, not only did I retain most not all my
lean tissue and strength, but the experience was 1000X easier. (and I looked much
fuller and better)
Third, the response of my body to tren ace injections (only ace, not enanthate).
Regardless of the source, tren causes a continuous post injection spasm. You can
feel the entire strand of muscle from top to bottom in contraction for a few days.
This then causes slight inflammation making future injections to that spot painful
and tricky... especially if you do ED injections.
Fourth, this my be very unique, but Tren does effect joints I have hurt in the
past. My left shoulder and knees gets inflamed. On a side note I have been thinking
about a possible pin action that I could be incorrect on and have to re-think a
flawed analysis of Winstrol. I have used Winny before many times and have never had
joint problems with it. It was only when used with tren did the joints feel like
glass. I will in future and very shortly re-run winstrol without tren and see if I
get the same debilitating joint problems. Winny in the 90's was the AAS of choice.
A very well known "guru" at that time said he felt mg/mg winstrol was the best AAS
hands down at producing lean tissue..... One of the biggest, most muscular non
competitors I have ever PERSONALLY known, was a Winny freek. Loved, loved his oral
tabs.
Fifth, I will simply put it, I age badly on tren. From the look of my face, to the
hardening of the skin.
Tren is still the best polishing compound I know though. If your in the business of
modeling or fitness, tren will keep you looking close to perfection. That cannot be
denied, it has that magic touch and look...
DrX

you."
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Quote from: ryanbCXG on July 07, 2013, 08:53:58 PM
If you had to pick a couple stable fruits and vegetables what would they be and
why?
Here is the key. You will not see much benefit if you stick to the same restricted
intake. The deeper the colors the more concentrated the nutrients. Dark green,
bright purples, and deep orange are good places to begin. This will not be easy,
especially if you have never taken the time or have been brought up not eating
fruits and vegs. You will have to spend as much time reading about blueberries and
spinach as you do deca vs tren threads. Start slowly, and enjoy this process,
taste, touch, see as many varieties as you can. You will have to EXPERIMENT and
learn over time, just as the knowledge you have built with AAS and cycles.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/health-report/diet-nutrition/eating-the-rainbow-for-
good-nutrition.aspx
One of the most useful information on this site

Don't spend much time listening to someone talk about something they've never done.
Moderation is for losers, quitters, and whiners. Extremity is for winners.

uL7iMa
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Awesome thread! Thank you so much for sharing your experiences, DrX
When you speak about tren and its peripheral damages, what are you referring to?
The feeling of unhealthiness? Also, what are your thoughts on long-term deca
Globalge, which has been known to cause health problems?
DrX
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Quote from: Masseffect on August 21, 2013, 12:08:11 AM
Just dropping in to say you look amazing brother I really like some of your
philosophy's I've read so far especially the piston method. I've been doing this
for about a month just from watching bodybuilders do it in videos and using common
sense. You really feel all the blood fill the target muscle and it being stressed
throughout the entire movement. I really feel like its helping me make progress and
to top it off my joints feel so much better when I lift this way. Anyway, I too
wish to achieve that 70's look so this thread is a treat for me.
Great observation from watching the videos!! The goal is to keep you in the "game"
as long as possible. Piston style forces you to drop the weight, thus refocusing
the loads directly on the target muscle which placing less loads on joints and
tendons. You also change the stress placed on the muscle tissue through INCREASED
time under tension.
My approach is a holistic view. Each component of diet, cardio, training style, and
AAS use is intrinsically tied into each other. If any of those links are weak, the
whole process comes to an end...
DrX
you."
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fantastic thread man!
TrenBrah
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Amazing physique brother. Well done.
It takes nothing to join the crowd
but it takes everything to stand alone
DrX
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Quote from: herpderptardslurp on August 20, 2013, 04:49:53 PM
Dr.X,
What are your thoughts on optimal Test/Deca ratio? Assume that the trainee in
question is extremely gyno sensitive and gets sore nips from just two injections of
test e at 300mg, but is able to manage it with high doses of aromasin. How does
this ratio change in the growth phase vs the cutting phase?
Also in your experience, how do the strength gains compare between deca and
trenbolone on an mg per mg basis? If you took both in equal amounts at different
times, which would provide more strength gain?
You just asked the million dollar question. Here is the answer. There is no optimal
ratio of any combination AAS. What my ratio would be after 16 years of bodybuilding
will be very different from yours. From the unique side effect responses, to the
amounts of lean muscle to fat depositions I have. And it changes in time as body
composition changes.
This is bodybuilding. A lonely discovery of training, diets regimes and

combinations of AAS that work specifically for you. I have said this before
following someones else programs will result in failure. This is why we preach
simplicity at first. Learn how each AAS works in isolation, and build your ratios
from there. BE OBJECTIVE THOUGH. Your magic test to deca maybe 1:3. For me it would
be a 1:1. If your getting to many sides from test, try not to add other drugs into
the equation to counter act the sides. FIRST reduce the doses of test and slightly
raise the ratio of other anabolic AAS and see how you respond.
As for tren vs deca in strength. There is no comparison. Tren is much, much

stronger the deca when it comes to mg/strength ratio. I personally have NEVER been
able to use more then 50mgs of Tren ace a day. It just creates to much peripheral
damage. I can use up to 200mgs of Deca a day with little to no complications..
DrX
you."
DrX
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Quote from: Lion on August 20, 2013, 02:26:04 PM
^ Very interesting. I actually highly prefer the legs of the 70's guys, it looks
much more statuesque in my opinion. I am going to give no test a try, just EQ and
dbol and see how she goes.
The bottom line is, do what makes YOU happy. Give no test a try and see if the end
results match your expectations. And then go from there. It is a never ending
learning curve. From the training, to the diet to the right AAS to match your
goals. But once you have found your unique combinations, just remember not to get
side tracked with the "new in thing".
Keep things simple...
Just dropping in to say you look amazing brother I really like some of your
philosophy's I've read so far especially the piston method. I've been doing this
for about a month just from watching bodybuilders do it in videos and using common
sense. You really feel all the blood fill the target muscle and it being stressed
throughout the entire movement. I really feel like its helping me make progress and
to top it off my joints feel so much better when I lift this way. Anyway, I too
wish to achieve that 70's look so this thread is a treat for me.
herpderptardslurp
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Dr.X,
What are your thoughts on optimal Test/Deca ratio? Assume that the trainee in
question is extremely gyno sensitive and gets sore nips from just two injections of
test e at 300mg, but is able to manage it with high doses of aromasin. How does
this ratio change in the growth phase vs the cutting phase?
Also in your experience, how do the strength gains compare between deca and
trenbolone on an mg per mg basis? If you took both in equal amounts at different
times, which would provide more strength gain?
I am a fictional character.
Lion
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^ Very interesting. I actually highly prefer the legs of the 70's guys, it looks
much more statuesque in my opinion. I am going to give no test a try, just EQ and
dbol and see how she goes.
DrX
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Quote from: Nasty_Nate on August 20, 2013, 02:32:33 AM
really looking forward to u elaborating on ur experiences with under-utilizing test
The reason I was disappointed with my LAST AND FINAL low test approach had to do
with a personal observation between the physiques of the 70's and 80's. In the 70's
the upper bodies were in my opinion very well developed and balanced. The irony
was with extremely simple exercises vs today's machines and equipment. This was
especially true for chest. If you took a hard look at the development of the
chests, they looked like plates of steel. From the inside, to the top, and even the
bottom the chests were always full. That particular body part was never a flaw as
it is with today's top bodybuilders who actually weigh 60-100lbs more. Remember it
was hypothesized the cycles back then revolved around bases of deca and dbol.
The 70's did lack the complete development of the quads and hamstrings however. It
was the 80's in my opinion where leg development began to really shine. What
accounted for the difference in the full leg development and sweep that began then?
Nothing really changed much in terms of squatting techniques or equipment. Was
there more emphasis on legs or was it a combination of new esthetics and the
introduction of higher TEST and some insulin into the equation!!! I do feel today's
top bodybuilders have superior legs to those in the 70's, 80's and 90's. Any
coincidence to the use of high test and insulin to the drastic change in the
development of legs?
Here was my problem. This last LOW test growth phase did not bring any improvements
to my quads in comparison to my last high test growth phase. I had some nice (not
drastic) improvements to key upper body muscles, but that was not my main
objective. I have never believed in certain AAS compounds having direct effects on
specific body parts before. The one you hear the most is primo and shoulders. Primo
does not have a direct effect on my shoulders, but through trial and error, I am a
believer higher Test doses do have a direct correlation to the significant
development of quads and the total thickening of my upper-body. There are "experts"
out there who refer to test as a "dirty" unnecessary compound. I would humbly
disagree.
DrX
you."
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Quote from: mandor on August 20, 2013, 06:50:07 AM
Quote from: pellius on August 20, 2013, 01:13:58 AM
Finaplix and Component-th cattle implants were pure trenbolone acetate.
yes, this is why i mentioned it in the original post, not clearly though lol. the
original versions were just tren ace, but the new implants have estradiol as well.
the new product is still new to the market, and i would be very interested in how
the results compare to the old tren only implants!
the old tren implant was used in the feed lots before slaughter. the cattle were
held in these pens and essentially placed on a diet with regular injects of tren
ace through pellets via the ear. it leaned them out and improved the quality by
reducing the amount of fat in the marbling of the beef.
The ones with esto in them was always there but obviously bb's didn't use them.
Fina and Component-th was taken off the market for a while and only the ones with
estro were available. They were on to the fact that it was used for other reasons
than for cattle. It's back on the market but instead $30-$40 for 2 grams of tren
it's now well around $130.00. Compare to what you can get from a UG lab and have it
ready made it's quite a rip off.
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yes, this is why i mentioned it in the original post, not clearly though lol. the
original versions were just tren ace, but the new implants have estradiol as well.
the new product is still new to the market, and i would be very interested in how
the results compare to the old tren only implants!
the old tren implant was used in the feed lots before slaughter. the cattle were
held in these pens and essentially placed on a diet with regular injects of tren
ace through pellets via the ear. it leaned them out and improved the quality by
reducing the amount of fat in the marbling of the beef.
5antom
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Dr. X, and others arguing for the importance of estrogen. What do you think about
this guy's post? It is a comprehensive collection of articles supporting the use of
AI's and proving the irrelevance of estrogen on muscle growth. Really interesting
and backed up read.
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=126874163&page=1
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really looking forward to u elaborating on ur experiences with under-utilizing test
pellius
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Quote from: mandor on August 19, 2013, 11:26:32 PM
Quote from: trenmafia on August 18, 2013, 05:41:08 PM
I agree with Drx on estrogen and mass gaining,you need them during those phases.Or
else you end like that delusional Snexer who was year round on ''dry'' compounds
and was looking like a twink..Those afraid of little water retention won't go far
in bodybuilding,unless you want to look like a fitness model then its ok
Please read what Trenmafia said on both 204 and 208. The heart of this critical
discussion comes down to the true roll of estrogen as a by product of the
aromatising AAS family and the balance needed for optimal growth. I will get to
this soon. Other topics need to be covered first, so that I can tie in the big
picture.
Here is another very important fact we MUST embrace in the understanding about
estrogen. This topic has not been openly discussed lately either. Besides what most
if not all the pro's beyond the 80's (higher test) have looked like in the off
season, the other side of the equation is they have all had gyncomastia too. What
we try to avoid these days, they tolerated, and then at some point have had surgery
to remove it (sometimes multiple surgeries). But their biggest gains in size always
was accompanied with estrogen side effects. It is a double edge sword!!!
i'm going to look for it on pubmed, or the link where i found it, but essentially
what it stated was that test:estrogen should be in a 10:1 ratio for optimal
conditions for tissue growth and recovery. i believe this is why cattle implants
for feed lots now include estrogen in this ratio (beyond the fact that bbers were
using finakits at one time).
these cattle implants are in this ratio:

http://www.allivet.com/p-2187-synovex-h-implants-100-ds.aspx
it's unknown to me if this has any validity with humans, but it might be an
interesting idea to further research and even experiment with (in a real lab lol).
Bravo my man!!! Bravo!! Keep it going.....
Love to see thinking outside the box. Questions that have been skipped over 20
years that need revisiting. Did cattle ranchers only use tren implants in
isolation? If so at what point during the cattle's life, and for WHAT REASON
(harvest weight)? Where these (tren in isolation) the hypothesis we built our
bodybuilding theses on?
Were the other implant combinations used such as tren/estrogen,

progesterone/estrogen, what about the testosterone/estrogen. When where they used
and for what purpose? Hint: They used more estrogen then you think.....
Today we think of estrogen in terms of fat deposition. But the reality is, if the
ratios are correct it comes down to pure muscle growth for the cattle..... and more
importantly in calorie restriction, greater muscle retention (I am actually getting
ahead of myself).
DrX

DrX
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Quote from: mandor on August 19, 2013, 11:26:32 PM
picture.

Bravo my man!!! Bravo!! Keep it going.....
Love to see thinking outside the box. Questions that have been skipped over 20
years that need revisiting. Did cattle ranchers only use tren implants in
isolation? If so at what point during the cattle's life, and for WHAT REASON
(harvest weight)? Where these (tren in isolation) the hypothesis we built our
bodybuilding theses on?
Were the other implant combinations used such as tren/estrogen,

progesterone/estrogen, what about the testosterone/estrogen. When where they used
and for what purpose? Hint: They used more estrogen then you think.....
Today we think of estrogen in terms of fat deposition. But the reality is, if the
ratios are correct it comes down to pure muscle growth for the cattle..... and more
importantly in calorie restriction, greater muscle retention (I am actually getting
ahead of myself).
DrX
you."
mandor
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picture.

DrX
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picture.

you."
trenmafia
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The key word is not elevated but optimal/balanced ratio between estrogen and
androgens..Strong androgens like tren antagonize estro add to that AIs and low test
which is the ''trend'' nowdays and the levels go so low that it is
counterproductive to muscle growth...As i said nothing wrong if you are after a
more classic/model look but to get massive you need to get a little watery at
times..
thewrongadvices
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5antom, I don't find deca very estrogenic at all. It's only as I add in more test
that I begin to hold more water. I still think that deca is known as a wet compound
because it's often run in a bulk alongside other wet compounds, but for me it's not
very wet at all. Maybe you'll just have to stick to low test as you seem prone to
estrogen on test. You could try a hefty dose of deca on top, and an oral as well
depending what you've run before and what you know your body will like.
5antom
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I've been reading a lot of research lately on estrogen and bodybuilding. I

personally have not found anything that relates elevated estrogen to muscle gain.
There were a couple of peer-reviewed medical papers that confirmed this (I will dig
up the sources if interested). In fact, many linked a normal estradiol level of 20-
30 to a more healthy body, and linked higher estrogen to heart problems,
cholesterol, etc.
What I'm trying to say is while I agree that you'll never truly get big and massive
without "wet" compounds, I'm not sure that we can link that directly to higher
estrogen. I'd like to find out for sure though.
My question/comment in regards to the latest topic of wet vs. dry compounds is that
for me, personally, I'm usually afraid to run these compounds (although I feel
GREAT on dbol for example) cause I'm afraid of not looking like a bodybuilder. I
bloat easy, and I always lose definition so quickly, even from just a few days of
bad diet. I recently tested my estradiol on 250mg test and it was 89! I'm always
worried I'd look like shit running drugs like deca (especially since I had a bad
experience last time). How then should one run them optimally to avoid that
situation? I understand a little fat and water is inevitable, but looking terrible
just to gain some lbs isn't my preferred route.
I'm anxiously awaiting Dr. X's next post on this topic because I have been
frustrated lately with the lack of quality muscle gain, and IT IS due to all the
dry compounds and tren I run instead of mass builders.
prowrestler
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Dr X.. how does this look to you?
Test 1000
Npp 600
Drol 100ed
Dbol 50ed
No ai bullshit.
The average 185-200lb singe digit bodyfat bodybuilder lokin to blow up 70-80s style
My complete and detailed physique enhancment thread
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squirms
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Quote from: squirms on July 29, 2013, 09:15:48 PM
DrX,
not sure if you have answered this before so forgive me for getting you to repeat
yourself...
What is the longest you came off between 'cycles'? As in no hrt no nothing, just
return to normality. And if you did, how was your recovery?
There were times, getting reliable, good quality AAS was very very difficult.
Something we take for granted now. I had to completely came off, once for two years
straight mainly because I was not willing to continually put garbage into my
system. I always remained committed to training and diet regardless of the
availability though. As stated in an earlier answer to a similar question I only
used Nolvadex in my post therapy at approximately 10-20mgs a day. I started 3 weeks
after my last shot for another 3 weeks or so. Tried Clomid once and was not
impressed in comparison to Nolvadex. It also broke me out in cyctic acne so bad, I
threw it away and have never used it since. Never used hcg, so I do not feel
comfortable regurgitating bro-science about compounds I have never used or helped
someone use successfully....
My recovery was actually very smooth mainly because I was younger and on moderately
low doses of AAS. My exit strategy revolved more around getting my body to a zone
closer to where it would be easier psychologically and physically to maintain. As
far as I know, this has never been discussed before, because the focus as always
been on the compounds (hcg/nolvadex etc...) rather then then calculated prediction
of your bodies set genetic base is. The premise is like the pendulum. You would not
want to come off at your leanest or heaviest weight EVER. It would be impossible to
maintain, and the acceleration of change would be extreme. There would be natural
center point your pendulum would come to. Figuring that out before hand is the
key!!!
I would recommend shooting for a 7-9% body fat levels FIRST before you come off.
If your naturally skinny, aim for the lower end of 7%, and if you naturally hold
higher levels of body fat 9% or so would be your goal. Why, the rate of change will
be slower and easier to maintain in this range. The nutritional base for that range
would also help keep you "firmer" for longer periods of time as you would not be
over or under eating.
I read your thread and see you are determined to come completely off due to a
variety of life's issues. But you face one major hurdle, that I did not, that is in
your inability to continue training. The honest truth is this will negatively
change your rate of muscle retention faster then any "perfect" pct therapy you
seek.
I'll give you another physiological example similar to what you will face to help
understand the process. It is the interesting rate in which bone mass is lost as
astronauts stay in zero gravity space. The human body requires four critical
factors to maintain bone mass. One requires the building blocks of calcium, the
hormone (instructions) to build the bones (vitamin D), calories or energy to build
or remodel bones, and finally compressional loads placed on the body as the
stimulus for maintenance or growth (gravity). If any ONE of these factors are
missing you cannot correct the issue of bone loss by increasing the levels of the
other three!!! Regardless of what scientists have tried, astronauts continued to
lose bone mass, even if they are AGGRESSIVELY supplemented with calcium and vitamin
D. Muscle tissue works in the exact same way but at a significantly faster rate or
turnover then bone. It requires all four elements, Amino acids (protein), energy,
hormones (AAS), and constant weight tensions placed on the tissue for maintenance
or growth.
On a side note, this is one of the reasons you see AAS studies done on animals DO
not generally crossover to humans. Tren and the famous cattle studies are my
favorite ones. There is is no stimulus (weight training) or protein required for
cattle and they still gain lean tissue.
So my point is weight training is still critical for the maintenance of lean

tissue, though it will be at much lower levels.
Another reality you will face probably sooner then later is the re-injury of your
body once you have returned to AAS. If have not taken a critical look at what
caused your injuries in the first place and addressed an alternative training style
and or exercises you will be back to ground zero faster then the first time and the
injury will ALWAYS get progressively worse.
Thank you for the detailed response, greatly appreciated friend. I suspect that AAS
is partially the cause of the injury as i've witnessed this now in other fellas,
who after starting hormones begin to pick up injuries here and there. I may likely
need to have key-hole surgery on my shoulder, God knows how long the recovery
process can be from there.
Ive managed to remain somewhat lean. Upper body training is out of the question, so
I stick to leg and ab work with cardio (stationary bike and the like as anything
that requires the shoulders to sway such as when running, are also out of the
question.
Goals have changed. Priority for now is to remain 'fit' and healthy. The plus side
is my skin and face look really good now, I look my age again if not younger. From
here, once the wedding is out of the way, i intend to get the wife pregnant
providing my internal functions are up to scratch and have no problems with regards
to fertility which has always been my biggest fear.

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Dr X -- just found this thread and didn't even read all the way thru --just the
1st page. Congrate on the new addition to the family and
Thick and dry - awesome!!- ok I'll be up to speed after reading thru the whole
thread.
I can't wait to read thru this!!!
Jacked1
In order to change your life you must change you physiology, you must change your
focus my friends - -
All statements I make are fictitious and for entertainment value only.
If I don't tell the truth I'm lying - if I tell the truth I'm cheating. What I'm
cheating @ is beyond me -
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thank you dr.x for post #154!
always loved that look. great to hear my own experiments with eq and test got me
closest to the look you are talking about. i didn't spend enough time with it, and
didn't get lean enough at the start to really see the results you speak of. this
will be my next goal. also, i've never used deca, but it will be my next purchase
based on your information. at this point though i believe i have enough information
on nandrolones from gh15.org to do it better than ever!
again, beautiful write up with pictures and everything. thank you for the great
information!!!
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Quote from: TheRevolver on August 17, 2013, 10:56:46 PM
So that leads me into the two biggest mistakes I have made CONTINUOUSLY, during my
life as a bodybuilder. One was the over use of Tren especially in the dieting
phases. I will explain this one in detail later when I discuss estrogen. The other
was the under utilizing of Test. My Last growth phase I only used 200mg of test cyp
a week (with no tren) as my final trial of low test in a growth phase. I was
disappointed in the end vs the growth phase I had a few years back with more test.
Funny note, at the end of the previous higher test growth phase I had to buy 3
pairs of dress slacks because they were all tearing at the back seams.
Yes! Please do elaborate on this part as I am very prone to estrogen and water
retention.
Quote from: pellius on August 17, 2013, 11:47:12 PM

retention.
Yes, I would like this elaborated on as well. Especially since this is such a high
tren, low Test (even anti-test) board.
+3
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retention.
Yes, I would like this elaborated on as well. Especially since this is such a high
tren, low Test (even anti-test) board.
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retention.
Juiceinator
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Your most recent post alludes to what I've been saying for quite a while. And
especially so for people who lack a lot of muscle using so many "dry" compounds
just don't produce the desired effect. I personally feel a lot of people could look
much better if they were willing to throw some deca and dbol in when relatively
lean, but the fear of carrying a little extra water is to great for many so they
get stuck spinning their wheels. Funny thing is that with the right compounds in
the right conditions most of the water gets pushed into the muscle instead of
hiding the muscle giving an illusion of additional size.
A coward dies a thous.and deaths. A soldier dies but once.
Current: Trying to get my strength back after heart surgery.
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This is very cool to see.
Simplicity sometimes is the best.
I don't plan on ever using insulin, just AAS and growth hormone, and igf1lr3 if i
can get my hands on it lol. Don't really want to compete at high weight anyway.
Everything I post is the product of a runaway imagination. All pictures, videos,
and stories posted should be viewed as works of fiction.
DrX
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Quote from: hawkmoon on August 16, 2013, 04:36:35 AM
Nice to see someone else who respects some of the "simpler" tools in our arsenal.
And the benefit of keeping it simple... ;)
Great postings X.
Thank you hawkmoon!!
In the first set of pics from 2007 I was dieting down with the following: Tren Ace
35mgs, Mast 50mgs, and test cyp 100mgs every 3 DAYS. Tren back then was only made
in 75mg/mls. And this was pre gh15. Those old pictures made me look larger then I
truly was. I lost all the thickness and density with that "fitness" AAS
combination. I don't think I could have fit into my 2 month old baby gaps T-shirts
during that time. I have used more tren at much higher doses, then that recently,
but the results ALWAYS came out the same.....
This new growth phase which started a month ago will have substantially more test,
with very little to no masterone or any anti-estrogens. I have learned my lesson
the hard way. I was fooled once, I was fooled twice, actually I was fooled 9X
before it really sunk in....
Now it is time to GROW!!

DrX
you."
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Nice to see someone else who respects some of the "simpler" tools in our arsenal.
And the benefit of keeping it simple... ;)
Great postings X.
DrX
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Quote from: Prodigy on June 20, 2013, 04:09:47 AM
you look incredible. and surprised to see the compounds you used.
There is a thread in the AAS section: Ranking - Wettest to driest AAS you have run.
Based on the answers, there seems to be line drawn as to what compounds provide
"dry vs wet" esthetics. Well I tend to agree and disagree with the answers. AAS are
tools and based on conditions and variables these tools can give two completely
different results to the same person based on a number of factors.
I will post up an OLD black and white picture taken in the gym in approximately
2007.
The picture below was a cycle of just low Test, masterone di-prop, and Tren acetate
only. The pictures on page one are Test, deca, anadrol, masterone, injectable TNE
and 3-4iu of generic gh. Can you tell the difference in hardness? Can you say with
complete confidence there are true wet vs dry compounds? I actually now prefer to
call them growth vs polish compounds.....
DrX
* 2007b.jpg (19.18 kB, 450x338 - viewed 250 times.)

you."
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I'm glad you responded to the fish oil question...There has been some new studies
lately suggesting fish oil capsules were bad for men over the ages of 50. After
reading this I will discontinue the capsules for sure.
DrX
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Quote from: Lean82 on August 13, 2013, 09:58:35 PM
Another great read Dr.
I know after reading that this question may seem kind of dense, but what is your
opinion on:
A. Fish Oil capsules
B. Vitamin B injections
I personally did take fish oil capsules many many years ago, but was never
impressed with the studies I reviewed. So I generally stopped as the reviews were
very inconclusive at that time. I was just wasting money. I do however take natural
oils with different ratios of monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats in the
growth and cutting phases. My favorites include extra virgin olive oil, hazelnut
oil, avocado oil, and even walnut oil. You can find these at most grocery stores.
The most important being olive oil. The label should always state extra virgin and
COLD PRESSED. Never expose any of these these oils to light, heat, or oxygen as it
then causes rancidity. Look for oils to be in a dark green glass or packaging that
shields it from light; avoid plastic containers. I'm not a "top shelf snob", so as
long as the oils come correctly packaged with the right labels and are priced
competitively, I'll buy it. My gut usually tells me the very very cheap discounted
oils in this category would be blends. So I do stay away from the dirt cheap
brands.
As to how to use them. I keep olive oil as a base everyday, and the three other
oils I will rotate in on a second serving. Just pour one tablespoon (120kcal) onto
anything and everything you eat. From salads, oatmeal, breads, shakes, in rice. It
is that simple. Cooking or heating these oils are a bit tricky, so I just pour it
cold.
Now as for Vitamin B injects. I'm assuming your only referring to B-12 or
Cobalamin? Remember B-12 is part of a water-soluble vitamin family that I wrote
above. It is found naturally in a variety of foods, including meat, fish and dairy
products. The use is generally for those whose digestive systems that do not
adequately absorb the vitamin from the foods they eat due to a lack of intrinsic
factor. The other conditions B-12 injections would be necessary are for extreme
vegetarians, and those who have had part of the stomach and/or small intestine is
removed.
I have never used B-12 injections before as I am not Vitamin B-12 deficient. My
honest advice is to eat the variety of foods above. Great sources include eggs,
salmon, cheese, beef and even clams and oysters.

ReplyQuote
Another great read Dr.
I know after reading that this question may seem kind of dense, but what is your
opinion on:
A. Fish Oil capsules
B. Vitamin B injections
DrX
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The question I get from the younger generation of bodybuilders at the gym more then
any other question is what supplements do I take? My direct answer always is, I
don't take any supplements, I eat real food. This always seems to surprises them,
and at the same time creates a disappointment, in that the extra effort into
preparing meals is far and beyond what they are willing to do.
You all came here to this site because Gh15 spoke the truth about what it takes to
create a world class physique. Supplements never have and never will be the
foundation for extreme musculature. I remember a very influential magazine who at
the time was at the forefront of openly discussing the truth and benefits of AAS.
They sold us ALL out by becoming the very thing they resented. They could not
overcome the power of greed and money by selling a "new" frontier of revolutionary
supplements which they then claimed were as strong as, and safer then AAS (Hint
HMB). The same supplement marketing machine which brainwashes the uninformed about
bodybuilding is also to be said about the bigger world of supplements and
health!!!! But it is 1000X smarter in deception and manipulation then our world of
bodybuilding supplements.
Health cannot be found in a supplement bottle!! As I explained in an earlier

thread when nutrients comes in supplement form, the bodies first response is to
excrete, not utilize. It creates addition demands on the body. When nutrients come
from food, the bodies response is to utilize. Vitamins and minerals are kept in
very very tight ranges. Water soluble vitamins (B's and C) are never stored but are
immediately excreted. Fat soluble vitamins (A,D,E,K) can be stored BUT can also
become very toxic to the body.
Because of my background I assume everything I read on the internet is inaccurate

until proven otherwise. The honest truth is just about everything you read in the
world of supplements on the internet is more then likely contrived, inaccurate, and
just straight misleading. You can find a "study'" or article which would justify or
defend any known false product today. The question are always related to the strict
manner under which the studies were done and verified, by whom, and for what
reason. If I truly wanted to know the facts on certain compounds I usually look in
peer reviewed scientific journals that are ranked, not on the internet written by
an unknown "phantom" writer.
Just always remember, the ultimate goal for a supplement company is not your
health, but your hard earned money.
If someone came to you and said they were going to get muscular by taking one 25mg
oral dbol tab in the morning, what would you say? Your thought process
automatically understands that the time in which the oral AAS is active is very
short (3-4hrs), so it would hinder gains with once a day dosing. Now the same
bodybuilder comes to you and says he refuses to eat whole foods but is also taking
one supplement pill first thing in the morning? What do you say if you knew the
supplement is excreted faster then the dbol pill?
I always like to use the analogy of a car engine to explain how vitamins and
minerals "generally" work. Say for example you were driving down the road and your
car began to stall. You look down to see your gas tank light is on empty. You
happen to be lucky enough to pull into a gas station right on time. The attendant
comes out to help you push the car into the gas island and then recommends an
immediate change of your spark plugs. You give him a strange look, and explain that
all your need is gasoline. He aggressively insists you need spark plugs. The car
combustion engine requires three components: heat (spark plug), fuel or energy
(gasoline) and oxygen. All three must be present for combustion to occur. To much
or to little of either component causes control issues. The human body cannot use
combustion, as we are made of organic tissue. We would melt if extreme heat was
created, so the term of 'burn" is actually incorrect. Vitamins and minerals are the
co-factors just like the spark plug in the car engine for many functions in the
body.
By itself and in isolation THEY ARE USELESS!!! They are PART of hundreds of other
complicated processes in the body, from energy, to growth and repair of EVERY cell
in the body each requiring these critical co-factors AT ALL TIMES. You
instinctively knew adding spark plugs with an empty gas tank would not work, but
are willing to consume isolated "spark plugs" into your bodies. There are certain
aspects of nature that man cannot improve on. One is whole foods. What occurs in
natural foods is we are given the gasoline (fat/carbs) and spark plugs
(vitamins/minerals) TOGETHER in one perfectly designed package. This design cannot
be perfected any better!!!!! You get the spark plugs and the gas exactly when your
body needs them. This is why the package is also absorbed and processed together
much more efficiently by the human body. Isolating one and consuming an excess will
always create a lag for the other key nutrients causing lower levels of development
and recovery.
There is an amazing process called turnover. This generally occurs with all cells
in your body with a couple of exceptions such as tendons and ligaments. But
basically, the body is in constant rebuilding mode. When the average bodybuilder
thinks about muscle tissue they assume it is solid and built like a skyscraper
would be. The assumption is steel is incorporated or imbedded into the structure as
it gets bigger, but never changes. The human body works in just the opposite. The
amazing steak you ate one month ago was added to your amino acid pool that may have
been used to create structure or protein synthesis for your body. But those amino
acids are no longer there today. You body pulls itself apart and is in CONSTANT
rebuilding modes. Protein from you quads get sent to the pool and used for a
different mission, and they are recycled back and forth every day of your life. In
other words muscle is not a constant structure. The amino acids that are there one
day are gone the next and are replaced with a new or recycled ones from another
parts of the body. As stated earlier the body critically requires four variables to
maintain its "fluid" muscle structure. AAS/Hormones, energy, protein, stress from
exercise, and a CONSTANT supply of vitamins and minerals which are part of the
process.
You can now see how fickle our bodies are. Unfortunately, we are building A HOUSE
OF CARDS. Any small change to key variables and it all comes down quickly. So let
me be perfectly clear. I am not recommending whole foods for extreme health. We are
here to build extreme bodies. But the truth is the truth. How do I minimize the
dangers of steroids/gh and build the best body one can. GH15 has said this may
times. Minimize any and all drugs to alleviate the stress put on the body's liver,
kidneys and other bodily functions. Folks that includes unnecessary over the
counter medications and supplements too. If your on a certain AAS which gives many
side effects and now have to use drug B and then C to counteract side effects of A,
and B then your already in deep trouble.There are no health supplements that will
help. Stop, and re-think your game plan. In order to build the 70-80's style
physique, you are here for the long hall!!
DrX

you."
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Why not just use both EQ and Deca?
Absolutely you can use both. I rotate in eq, primo, anavar, into the equations, but
generally not as bases. The question is how do you respond to each in isolation?
And where do you begin to get negative risk/reward side effects on each? For
example, the only sides I get from Eq is head aches. But that only occurs beyond a
certain dose. If kept under my threshold, I can stack it and retain the unique
anabolic properties Eq has and remain head ache free...
DrX
you."
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Quote from: Lion on August 05, 2013, 02:29:12 AM
Dr.X, this is a great thread. I have a question for you in re: your posting #154
where you say your bulking base is test and deca. If one can't use deca (hate it,
doesn't do anything for me except not let me sleep) what would you use instead? EQ?
You bring up a very very important point. How do you know compound X is not meant
for you and how do you know if other key variables are impacting the results of X
in a negative way. This a just a general response to those with moderate experience
with AAS and for those who have had experience but were not aware of key factors
clouding the true properties of X-AAS. When I first decided to start we were
actually able to get all AAS direct from pharmacies. So I knew what I had was 100%
pharmaceutical grade products or in other words a comparable GOLD STANDARD. How I
responded to each and every one was carefully scrutinized. I only introduced ONE
new AAS at a time and usually ran two AAS stacked together. There were NEVER
injection issues or negative responses out of the norm EVER. I am seeing unique
side effects today on certain AAS that I have never seen or heard of before. The
question is why?
Today you may or may not have access to the best AAS sources. From the impurity of
the ***** to the actual production under extremely sterile conditions. So the very
first question I have is, how do you know your really running is a true and PURE
compound? In today's world you don't unless you have had experience with a solid
gold standard in the past!! The reason I say this is because you may be missing out
on AAS that may be a perfect fit for you.
My example is Dbol. I knew the exact side effects I get from pure dbol when I
first started. Prior to the last 5 years or so just about 100% of what I tried was
pure and utter garbage. I had new side effects like a full bloated stomach issues,
head aches, nervousness, jitters that were NEVER present prior to this period. If I
were new to dbol I would have HATED that AAS. So how do you gauge your true
response to a new AAS. Well, today you would have to try multiple sources in
isolation and see if your get the same sides effect. Second overall doses may be
just too high for some in early stages of low lean tissue and high body fats
ratios. Just simply lowering doses may resolve many or most complications. Just
always remember the stacks you see on advanced bodybuilders ARE NOT the stacks used
at the beginning of their developments. This is why you keep your AAS basic and
simple to begin with.
The reason I have also recommend the removal all unnecessary stimulants and
auxiliaries (including T3) out of the equation is because THEY actually may be the
root cause of the unique negative responses I see these days that are out of the
norm. This ties into another important point about what makes a great sponsor. The
GREAT ones only have a VERY narrow selection of available items. Most ONLY include
the same 8-10 compounds that have built EVERY known champion bodybuilder you
admire. This is all they have ever needed!!! Their lists do not include other
auxiliaries and products they cannot precisely control, in terms of both production
and quality of materials. Pay attention to this!!!!
Now to the question about Eq. Yes Eq would be a nice base if Deca cannot be
tolerated. However the properties of Eq are vastly different then deca. With Eq
there would be less water retention and a slower growth and fill out phase then
deca resulting in a bit less volume and mass. Second, Eq does not bring joint
'lubrication" properties deca provides which allows heavier and more enjoyable
training secessions... This is critically important as you age!!
So overall Deca for me personally, is a far far more superior product then EQ. This
is just In terms of size, strength, recovery, and overall feeling of well being
during the growth phase. Eq is a fantastic AAS, just be objective with outcomes as
comparing them as apples to apples would be a mistake.
Dr.X thank you for the well thought out response.
The deca I used I believe is counterfeit Norma, which I purchased from a one time
approved sponsor. A female. The side effects were absolutely terrible, I was
zombified with lethargy and mental fogginess, I couldn't sleep and I didn't have a
dream for months. It was probably the worst time of my adult life.
I am now using NPP from a current approved sponsor. I have extreme lethargy but I
cannot say it's the NPP, because I am also on tren, pharma T3 and superdrol. I have
now dropped everything except for test and NPP, I still feel zombified but I will
give it a few more days to let everything clear my system. The NPP I have used for
about 30 days, at 1cc per day and I cannot see any change in physique whatsoever
except for bacne.
You may very well be correct and I may respond to real pharm grade deca. The first
dbol I ran was ugl, my first experience with aas, made me sick. I took 30mg and
threw up that night. I used it for weeks because the strength and muscle gains were
excellent but I didn't eat anything for weeks, gained 10 lbs of muscle eating NO
FOOD, but was fucking sick as a dog until I threw the dbol in the garbage. I've
since used thai blue hearts with no ill health effects, only positive effects.
Now that I think about it, the time I was using what I believe was counterfeit deca
I was also using counterfeit Test E.
Anyway, I'm not at a point where I want to try another run with deca or NPP but I
appreciate your response very much. I am going to run primo, test, eq and dbol for
the rest of the year and perhaps give LEGIT deca a try next year. Thanks for the
tips.
pellius
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Why not just use both EQ and Deca?
DrX
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You bring up a very very important point. How do you know compound X is not meant
for you and how do you know if other key variables are impacting the results of X
in a negative way. This a just a general response to those with moderate experience
with AAS and for those who have had experience but were not aware of key factors
clouding the true properties of X-AAS. When I first decided to start we were
actually able to get all AAS direct from pharmacies. So I knew what I had was 100%
pharmaceutical grade products or in other words a comparable GOLD STANDARD. How I
responded to each and every one was carefully scrutinized. I only introduced ONE
new AAS at a time and usually ran two AAS stacked together. There were NEVER
injection issues or negative responses out of the norm EVER. I am seeing unique
side effects today on certain AAS that I have never seen or heard of before. The
question is why?
Today you may or may not have access to the best AAS sources. From the impurity of
the ***** to the actual production under extremely sterile conditions. So the very
first question I have is, how do you know your really running is a true and PURE
compound? In today's world you don't unless you have had experience with a solid
gold standard in the past!! The reason I say this is because you may be missing out
on AAS that may be a perfect fit for you.
My example is Dbol. I knew the exact side effects I get from pure dbol when I
first started. Prior to the last 5 years or so just about 100% of what I tried was
pure and utter garbage. I had new side effects like a full bloated stomach issues,
head aches, nervousness, jitters that were NEVER present prior to this period. If I
were new to dbol I would have HATED that AAS. So how do you gauge your true
response to a new AAS. Well, today you would have to try multiple sources in
isolation and see if your get the same sides effect. Second overall doses may be
just too high for some in early stages of low lean tissue and high body fats
ratios. Just simply lowering doses may resolve many or most complications. Just
always remember the stacks you see on advanced bodybuilders ARE NOT the stacks used
at the beginning of their developments. This is why you keep your AAS basic and
simple to begin with.
The reason I have also recommend the removal all unnecessary stimulants and
auxiliaries (including T3) out of the equation is because THEY actually may be the
root cause of the unique negative responses I see these days that are out of the
norm. This ties into another important point about what makes a great sponsor. The
GREAT ones only have a VERY narrow selection of available items. Most ONLY include
the same 8-10 compounds that have built EVERY known champion bodybuilder you
admire. This is all they have ever needed!!! Their lists do not include other
auxiliaries and products they cannot precisely control, in terms of both production
and quality of materials. Pay attention to this!!!!
Now to the question about Eq. Yes Eq would be a nice base if Deca cannot be
tolerated. However the properties of Eq are vastly different then deca. With Eq
there would be less water retention and a slower growth and fill out phase then
deca resulting in a bit less volume and mass. Second, Eq does not bring joint
'lubrication" properties deca provides which allows heavier and more enjoyable
training secessions... This is critically important as you age!!
So overall Deca for me personally, is a far far more superior product then EQ. This
is just In terms of size, strength, recovery, and overall feeling of well being
during the growth phase. Eq is a fantastic AAS, just be objective with outcomes as
comparing them as apples to apples would be a mistake.
you."
DrX
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ReplyQuote
Quote from: Naxos on August 08, 2013, 01:46:17 AM
Quote from: Naxos on August 07, 2013, 08:48:16 PM
Amazing pictures Dr.X
I've read and re-read this thread multiple times. Started piston style training
this week and love it. I really feel the muscle working without the rests at the
eccentric part of the lift.
Keep it up! Looking forward to more good reads.
Thank you!!! I am not a great or fast writer, so it takes me a while. But I am

working on quite a few more interesting topics...
You bring up a topic I will cover in depth soon. But I do want to reiterate that
piston style requires control of the weight at all times. And more importantly the
stroke covers a full range of motion in a moderate speed. For example, during a
chest barbell presses, you would touch the chest right above the nipple and move to
a top point JUST SHY OF LOCKOUT, then reverse the motion, and smoothly control it
down. It should look like a car piston moving with no pauses in motion. A very
important tip for piston style is the grip. Before you start the exercise, grip the
bar or dumbbell as hard as you can. When failure occurs, focus deeply in on your
grip and TIGHTEN it even more against the bar or dumbbell. That always helps
generate a few more forced clean reps.
The link below is NOT piston style!!! No bouncing or body english allowed..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ix-Nk-pKFZo
Thanks for the clarification. I feel like I have control for most of the reps and
then get sloppy at the end. Will definitely try the grip thing tonight.
How would you recommend training legs using this method? Since there is no grip.
(Evil Laugh).... Legs and pistol style is pure and unadulterated torture for most
especially on squats without stopping and resting at the top point. This one is
tough, there is no way around it. But the rewards will speak for themselves!!
If you look carefully enough on most newer leg press machines there are handles on
the sides purposely built into the frame just for grip. The good ones are designed
with an extremely thick plastic handle grip to maximize both control and nervous
system activation.
Once in position and you have unlocked and pushed the foot plate up, grab the real
handles HARD BEFORE you begin the set. Most just loosely grip the unlock handles or
move their arms in front of the legs to push the quads for assistance. You will NOT
do that. You will continue to grip the handles thought the entire set. Again moving
in a controlled full range fashion, short of lockout all the way down and up
without pausing till failure. Now this is where it gets interesting at failure. Do
not let go of the handles and grip them even tighter, the forced nervous system
activation will again generate a few extra reps beyond what you thought would have
been failure...
Enjoy..
DrX

you."
Naxos
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Thanks for the clarification. I feel like I have control for most of the reps and
then get sloppy at the end. Will definitely try the grip thing tonight.
How would you recommend training legs using this method? Since there is no grip.
quadzilla
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ReplyQuote
Quote from: B.Belt on August 07, 2013, 10:17:11 PM
Awesome thread Dr.X Youre an asset to this boarding. Can somebody say Jedi
material???? 8)
ya forsure 100% an asset to this boarding!

B.Belt
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Awesome thread Dr.X Youre an asset to this boarding. Can somebody say Jedi
material???? 8)
All comments and information posted by B.Belt are for entertainment purposes
only.Everything I post is made up. B.Belt is a fictional character and has no
problem toward any forum,handle,country,race or anybody else.I wish no harm on
anybody nor do I endorse it.
DrX
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you."
Naxos
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A2daMIR
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Great muscle fullness. nicely done!
pellius
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subscribe
bigal
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Great insight Dr.X. I know we want to get the truth out there, but sometimes we
have to step back and realize what we're doing. We should and do to some extent lie
about what we do. I think in this lifestyle we need to keep some things in house,
just for self preservation if nothing else.....
Rearden Metal
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TEAM METAL- Seek the Truth


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Great thread Dr. X!
check out my blog! http://metalgearclothing.com/blogs/metals-grind
prowrestler
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?? rauls snicker??

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So mass phase protocal outline? Doses compounds...what you think is best.
My own speciall queation, drol dbol, combine or run seperate?

My complete and detailed physique enhancment thread
Lion
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ReplyQuote
Quote from: re4per on August 05, 2013, 09:23:46 AM
i know im not DrX, but here is a quote from him:
Quote
Second if you have not had a good experiences with deca then give EQ a try!!
Your base will be Deca and Test. If your NOT sensitive to Test and your using GH
then do not be conservative with the doses with test (go all out). If you cannot
tolerate deca, then Eq will be your next best base along with test.
Thanks bud.
re4per
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i know im not DrX, but here is a quote from him:
Quote
Your base will be Deca and Test. If your NOT sensitive to Test and your using GH
then do not be conservative with the doses with test (go all out). If you cannot
tolerate deca, then Eq will be your next best base along with test.
Re4per's posts are purely fictional and for entertainment purposes only.
fluery
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I love reading anecdotes and tips from you, Dr.X - appreciate you taking the time
to dish some advice out. I really feel lucky to have access to all this info at a
relatively young age.
Lion
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Lean82
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Yes indeed...once again another great post.
Juiceinator
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Pull your pants up. No one wants to see pubes.


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^amazing. I was dying laughing at points and then at other points found it very
honest and truthful.
A coward dies a thous.and deaths. A soldier dies but once.
Current: Trying to get my strength back after heart surgery.
DrX
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Re: DrX Photos: 1970-80's Protocol.

ReplyQuote
Etiquette 101
The number one side effect of using steroids is, you'll will become a liar... DrX
I will always remember what a former Mr Olympia said to a belligerent fan at a

training seminar once when he wanted or actually DEMANDED to know what he was
using. His response, "its non of your fucken business".
I said this statement in an earlier answer to a question. There is only room for a
few at the top who can maintain financial security at all times. If you understand
this, then conjecture, logic, objective observation and trial and error is all we
have to work with.....
Imagine this was a food forum where the best and brightest chefs who owned
restaurants could come and discuss business, and recipes. Lets say you came up with
a recipe for a great dessert so amazing it generates lines outside your restaurant
everyday. Do I as another chef have that right to come into your kitchen and demand
your exact ingredients and methodologies for your dessert? In my opinion, NO. You
figured out the combinations that best worked for your recipe, you put in the
effort, the sacrifices, and more importantly you EXECUTED the plans and made it
work.
Remember, we all as bodybuilders have access to the same "ingredients" too.
If Mr 260lb bodybuilder at 4%BF wants to tell me that all he is on 200mg of Primo a

week, then that's ok by me. I'd would rather he kept his mouth shut then lie, but
this is the reality of livelihoods and bodybuilding.
I have NO right to ask him in the first place, as he has NO right to ask
ME.....especially if we do not intimately know or trust each other.
My good friend went to a family wedding and many of his family members who had not
seen him in a few years made positive and negative comments about his newly
acquired size. From his 14 year old nephew, who in front of his mom wanted to know
how he got so big to the other family members who made some very negative "jealous"
comments. Some tried their very best to publicly embarrass him mainly as a result
of their own lack of discipline and drive. This was truly his first time being
negatively confronted. So how did he do with the newly acquired fame? He did very
well because he practiced a response based on a old story I told him that I
witnessed 15 or so years ago. He said he had everyone at the tables entertained,
laughing and eating out of the palms of his hand without saying a word at times.
Here is the story that may help you:
I was at the beach one day with a very muscular friend, his wife and their two
small children. We were closer to the sidewalk then the water as we arrived late
and the place was packed. We were minding our own business when a group of 6 or 7
teenagers stopped at the walkway and began to shout as load as they could at my
friend....
S T E R O I D S! ! ! ! ! S T E R O I D S!!!!!!!
S T E R O I D S!!!!!!!
The first question you must ask is what do the teenagers want out of the public
harassment? There were at least 30 people now intently watching within an ear shoot
of their rant. They want ROID RAGE!!!!! They want to see the stereotypical meat
head explode and lose CONTROL to validate their own lack of both understanding and
drive!!!
But that was not what they got. What my friend did was genius! He used the power of
non-verbal communications to gain control of the situation. No words were even
spoken. This is what he did. As the teenagers began to shout he slowly turned
towards them in a non aggressive motion then gently waved and smiled at them. He
then began to entertain the teens and the now watching beach goers with a few
classic poses. Not the modern AGGRESSIVE version you see now like the most muscular
and the double biceps poses, but a couple of statuesque Greek poses on one knee
pointing at the sun, smiling and enjoying the process. He then slowly got up faced
the teens and kissed his biceps one at a time while continually smiling at them.
The kids were stunned. Standing there not knowing what to do, because he DID not
validate or come down to their level and they saw all the surrounding beach goers
were smiling, happy and entertained. So they just quietly walked away.....
This is the power of slight cockiness, confidence, control and humor!!!!!. Always
maintain your cool in negative situations....
As a result of this experience do you think those teens will harass any other
bodybuilder? How you respond to these negative situations will impact not only your
world, but OUR collective bodybuilding world too...
Another aspect we never think about are the true repercussions to bodybuilding if
the Pros actually divulged their entire stacks (INCLUDING INSULIN) to the public.
Can you imagine the negative press, when every inexperienced Joe has access to this
protocol. If we have a hard enough time convincing people here at GH15 to SLOWLY
build up AAS doses, what about those in the real world. The degree of injury, death
and destruction would be insurmountable. Our world as we know it would be over. In
a selfish way I personally would rather have them lie to the uninformed public,
because it ultimately protects our collective ability to freely use.
I know I cannot verbally convince or justify my use to strangers ever. They do not
understand the lifestyle and more importantly it is a waste of my time and ENERGY.
So I personally live by 3 rules when it comes to AAS use.
1) I keep my mouth shut!
2) I keep my mouth shut!!!!
3) I keep my mouth shut!!!!!!!!!
DrX
you."
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ReplyQuote
Excellent!
"If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more,
you are a leader."
DrX
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ReplyQuote
Quote from: Savier on July 31, 2013, 06:46:39 AM
Great thread and advice! Also, solid physique.
My question, I guess, is I've heard a few stories of bodybuilders in the 70s mixing
different orals in a jar and just grabbing a handful at a time (I think someone
here posted about it too) but you feel just one oral is a better approach or
approach they took most?
The one interesting side note I have noticed about the bodybuilders in the 70's,
they actually did come off completely from time to time. However, I could not tell
you how they implemented "time off". There are tons of pictures of Arnold where he
was actually natural (small and soft). They were also under Doctors supervision
during those times, so more then likely they were closely monitored. That leads
into your question. Under supervision, they would have to KEEP IT SIMPLE!! I'm sure
there were bodybuilders those who mixed orals, but the smarter route which would
have been find the best oral (FOR THAT INDIVIDUAL) that generates the best bang
with the least side effects and maximize it. And or simply rotate orals from time
to time.
Also remember they were the genetic elite with responses and sides very different
from yours and mine!!!!
No need to get complicated at first!!!
My bet is you will start to see many of today's generation develop issues as a
result of aggressively mixing orals. Especially when the unknown/untested designer
oral analogs that are popular today are thrown into the equation.

you."
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This is an amazing thread for my 70s body goals. Thanks DrX for your time and
answers!
It's better to be a lion for a day than a sheep for a lifetime.
warriorman15
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� Reply #164 on: July 31, 2013, 05:45:42 PM �
ReplyQuote
How often do you get bloodwork?
5antom
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� Reply #163 on: July 31, 2013, 03:43:37 PM �
ReplyQuote
Thanks for the reply, DrX, but looks like I won't be running deca afterall. Just
stopped by the pharmacy, the shit is 50mg/ml. SERIOUSLY??!! 50?!! That's 8-12 CCs
per week, I'm ok on that.
I think I'll just cruise on higher test (500-750) and add epistane for the 6 weeks,
staying away from carbs as much as possible and see what happens.
DrX
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� Reply #162 on: July 31, 2013, 01:38:58 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: 5antom on July 31, 2013, 05:13:47 AM
I really like your approach on things.
I'm personally trying to discover what works for me (I'm < 2 years on hormones)
while keeping two most important things in mind: health/longevity and HAIR! lol
This means certain drugs are out, the cool ones usually: masteron, anadrol,
winstrol, high tren, etc.
I know you like deca a lot; I actually tried it once and didn't have a good
experience. Could have been my diet, estro control (usually shoots up high), or
dosage (ran 350 and up to a gram npp/deca mix). This time I'm giving it another
shot for a quick 6 week run due mainly to having no other option. I'm overseas with
access to pharma sust and deca only (my friend is going to try to sneak some
epistane in as well). I will run 400mg deca, 250mg sust per week, and 60mg epistane
ed if it comes in, with the goal of maintaining thickness, size, strength, etc. I
have limited food choices, but I will try to keep carbs to before/after training
meals, with the rest being protein/fat. I have enough to run 10-20mg nolva ed, and
12.5mg aromasin eod. Of course I will frontload the deca at a rate that will let me
reach sustainable concentration within the first week.
What do you think about this approach? I know 6 weeks is not a lot, but I'm curious
to see what it will do. It will serve mainly as an "aggressive" cruise..I guess.
My second question is in regards to primo. I haven't tried it, but planning on

running a 16 week course with low test maybe some anavar. Again, goal is health and
hair. How do you feel about this compound?
Thanks for all your input in this thread. very interesting/informative.
I can see your in bind with both time and access to food and other AAS
alternatives. Deca, even if front loaded usually starts to REALLY kick in around
week 3 for me. So by the time deca's magic BEGINS to materialize, you will have to
come off. The longer you use deca, the thicker you become. So you do really need
time, and constant calories for this one to develop. That begs the next important
question for you, how long will you be off, and how much of your new tissue can be
maintained, if food is limited.
Primo is the safest and one of the best stacking compound. It will work very well
in any stack!! But by itself it will NOT put extreme size and volume on you like
deca and test, however the side effects you have will generally be avoided with
primo.

� Reply #161 on: July 31, 2013, 06:46:39 AM �
ReplyQuote
Great thread and advice! Also, solid physique.
My question, I guess, is I've heard a few stories of bodybuilders in the 70s mixing
different orals in a jar and just grabbing a handful at a time (I think someone
here posted about it too) but you feel just one oral is a better approach or
approach they took most?
5antom
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Posts: 1202


� Reply #160 on: July 31, 2013, 05:13:47 AM �
ReplyQuote
I really like your approach on things.
I'm personally trying to discover what works for me (I'm < 2 years on hormones)
while keeping two most important things in mind: health/longevity and HAIR! lol
This means certain drugs are out, the cool ones usually: masteron, anadrol,
winstrol, high tren, etc.
I know you like deca a lot; I actually tried it once and didn't have a good
experience. Could have been my diet, estro control (usually shoots up high), or
dosage (ran 350 and up to a gram npp/deca mix). This time I'm giving it another
shot for a quick 6 week run due mainly to having no other option. I'm overseas with
access to pharma sust and deca only (my friend is going to try to sneak some
epistane in as well). I will run 400mg deca, 250mg sust per week, and 60mg epistane
ed if it comes in, with the goal of maintaining thickness, size, strength, etc. I
have limited food choices, but I will try to keep carbs to before/after training
meals, with the rest being protein/fat. I have enough to run 10-20mg nolva ed, and
12.5mg aromasin eod. Of course I will frontload the deca at a rate that will let me
reach sustainable concentration within the first week.
What do you think about this approach? I know 6 weeks is not a lot, but I'm curious
to see what it will do. It will serve mainly as an "aggressive" cruise..I guess.
My second question is in regards to primo. I haven't tried it, but planning on

running a 16 week course with low test maybe some anavar. Again, goal is health and
hair. How do you feel about this compound?
Thanks for all your input in this thread. very interesting/informative.

DrX
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Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #159 on: July 31, 2013, 02:20:29 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: squirms on July 29, 2013, 09:15:48 PM
DrX,
yourself...
There were times, getting reliable, good quality AAS was very very difficult.
Something we take for granted now. I had to completely came off, once for two years
straight mainly because I was not willing to continually put garbage into my
system. I always remained committed to training and diet regardless of the
availability though. As stated in an earlier answer to a similar question I only
used Nolvadex in my post therapy at approximately 10-20mgs a day. I started 3 weeks
after my last shot for another 3 weeks or so. Tried Clomid once and was not
impressed in comparison to Nolvadex. It also broke me out in cyctic acne so bad, I
threw it away and have never used it since. Never used hcg, so I do not feel
comfortable regurgitating bro-science about compounds I have never used or helped
someone use successfully....
My recovery was actually very smooth mainly because I was younger and on moderately
low doses of AAS. My exit strategy revolved more around getting my body to a zone
closer to where it would be easier psychologically and physically to maintain. As
far as I know, this has never been discussed before, because the focus as always
been on the compounds (hcg/nolvadex etc...) rather then then calculated prediction
of your bodies set genetic base is. The premise is like the pendulum. You would not
want to come off at your leanest or heaviest weight EVER. It would be impossible to
maintain, and the acceleration of change would be extreme. There would be natural
center point your pendulum would come to. Figuring that out before hand is the
key!!!
I would recommend shooting for a 7-9% body fat levels FIRST before you come off.
If your naturally skinny, aim for the lower end of 7%, and if you naturally hold
higher levels of body fat 9% or so would be your goal. Why, the rate of change will
be slower and easier to maintain in this range. The nutritional base for that range
would also help keep you "firmer" for longer periods of time as you would not be
over or under eating.
I read your thread and see you are determined to come completely off due to a
variety of life's issues. But you face one major hurdle, that I did not, that is in
your inability to continue training. The honest truth is this will negatively
change your rate of muscle retention faster then any "perfect" pct therapy you
seek.
I'll give you another physiological example similar to what you will face to help
understand the process. It is the interesting rate in which bone mass is lost as
astronauts stay in zero gravity space. The human body requires four critical
factors to maintain bone mass. One requires the building blocks of calcium, the
hormone (instructions) to build the bones (vitamin D), calories or energy to build
or remodel bones, and finally compressional loads placed on the body as the
stimulus for maintenance or growth (gravity). If any ONE of these factors are
missing you cannot correct the issue of bone loss by increasing the levels of the
other three!!! Regardless of what scientists have tried, astronauts continued to
lose bone mass, even if they are AGGRESSIVELY supplemented with calcium and vitamin
D. Muscle tissue works in the exact same way but at a significantly faster rate or
turnover then bone. It requires all four elements, Amino acids (protein), energy,
hormones (AAS), and constant weight tensions placed on the tissue for maintenance
or growth.
On a side note, this is one of the reasons you see AAS studies done on animals DO
not generally crossover to humans. Tren and the famous cattle studies are my
favorite ones. There is is no stimulus (weight training) or protein required for
cattle and they still gain lean tissue.
So my point is weight training is still critical for the maintenance of lean

tissue, though it will be at much lower levels.
Another reality you will face probably sooner then later is the re-injury of your
body once you have returned to AAS. If have not taken a critical look at what
caused your injuries in the first place and addressed an alternative training style
and or exercises you will be back to ground zero faster then the first time and the
injury will ALWAYS get progressively worse.
you."
squirms
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� Reply #158 on: July 29, 2013, 09:15:48 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX,
yourself...
DrX
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� Reply #157 on: July 28, 2013, 07:13:41 PM �
ReplyQuote
There was a time on ESPN, where the pros actually had a training show dedicated to
bodybuilders. You got to see them train in the offseason at a body fat levels ideal
for growth as seen on this video.
I like this oldie-but-goodie because you don't get to see two generations train
together. Frank is generally down to bare minimum doses here, but you get to see
the size differentials....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UDwvOVthzA
you."
DrX
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� Reply #156 on: July 28, 2013, 01:41:14 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: roon12 on July 27, 2013, 09:19:07 AM
Wow, incredible thread.
Thanks for all the info and experiences.
If you have read the whole thread, then this should help tie in any loose ends when
it comes to variables and AAS
http://gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=12859.msg319123#msg319123
you."
DrX
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� Reply #155 on: July 27, 2013, 01:36:21 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: ryanbCXG on July 25, 2013, 12:11:47 AM
DrX requested i put this in here so that others could possibly glean information
from it as well.
DrX
Since you have achieved the type of physique i am shooting for (70s type with thick
chest tight waist ect).
I was wondering what your thoughts on what my immediate goals should be.....cut,
bulk for more of a foundation because my structure is so lanky. Goal is the 70s
type physiqe just extreme thickness and density but tight waist.
I am happy to answer any questions. I also attached my transformation thread. At

the start there are my very beggining pics and the link is to the last page with
the most current pics. And the middle is my journey as long as i have been here.
http://gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=3720.msg487895#new
Thanks for any help, advice and time
Ryan
Before I begin to answer your question I should state an important element of

bodybuilding that has always been true back into the 70's as it is today. That is
the art of deception to protect livelihoods. I can say the bodybuilders of the past
era did share camaraderie when it came to training knowledge, but when it came to
the bread and butter of AAS, the true realities will never be known. And I
completely understand why. There is only room for a few at the top who can maintain
financial security at all times. If you understand this, then conjecture, logic,
objective observation and trial and error is all I have to work with.....
Now to your question...
I have read your thread, and you should be proud of your accomplishments!! You are
at a stage where you have experimented with different compounds, training styles,
diets, and are ready to truly test yourself.
Expecting different results with same protocol will always result in

disappointment. So then maybe, it is time for change!!!!
The biggest head fake I have seen so far that has resulted in more confusion is the
term "lean bulk". This is a very very new concept only introduced in the last 5
years or so because of the popularity of tren WITH INSULIN, and a misunderstanding
of what it really takes to gain thickness and the all important three-dimensional
look. Gh15 has stated for years and has POUNDED the table, of the power of tren,
BUT he has always stated this in terms of MODERN bodybuilding, and the IMPORTANCE
of INSULIN and GH along with it.
My own personal experience with tren has been both rewarding and disappointing.
Without a doubt tren mg to mg is the strongest of all the AAS. What do I mean by
strong. It brings on strength gains (via the nervous system) far and beyond any
other AAS for me. But those strength gains have never amounted to any significant
lean tissue gains. The physique does take on a polished hard look, but a narrower,
thinner version that has always frustrated me. This is hard to explain, but the
body becomes denser, with significantly less volume. This is not a favorite look
for me....
So my question is how good is tren in ISOLATION without insulin. When you see
threads of those with quality size using tren, please always remember two
questions. How did this user first develop his solid thick base. Second, is INSULIN
used. Expecting gains with cutting compounds (tren/mast/anavar.....etc) will
usually NOT work for everyone, especially when slin is NOT part of the equation.
If your goal in modeling, physique competitions, or just a ripped beach look then
lean bulk with Tren/mast will work VERY VERY WELL for you!!!
If your interested in the 70's to 80's look then you must do what they did!!! So
lets exploit what is known. I actually combine what I feel is the best of both eras
into my personal decisions and recommendations. First question is what was used? I
would say two compounds in the 70's that were the bread and butter for that
generation. Deca and Dbol. That generation pushed the envelope on oral intake
today's current user would shiver at. In the 80's the base switched to Test and
Adrol. If you were here in the States it was test Cyp, if your were in Europe it
was Enanthate. Depending on early vs late 80's Sustanon or Omnadren 250, eventually
became the new base. Sure there were individuals who used or preferred Eq, or even
used Parabolin (rare), but the vast majority used those 4 key compounds to GROW.
That's it folks, nothing fancy or impressive. Just at constant HIGH doses.
Some may ask what about Primo? I have always felt primo was one of the head fake
compounds. Today's users always report "capped" fuller delts and nicer look to the
physique. To be honest I am not interested in capped delts when I'm growing. I want
shoulders so wide I no longer fit into my suits. Actually the suits tear in the end
of growth phases!! Primo cannot do this. It definitely has it's well earned place
into stacks, but it will never be a solid base for growth....
So what would I do if I were you? This may be VERY psychologically difficult for
most, but you have to let go of physical perfection (temporally). Taking pictures
week to week worrying about fat gains will no longer be apart of the game plan. I
would suggest you first however take yourself down in body fat to the 5-6% range,
then go all out. Take advantage of the rebound.
If you truly want to be unrecognizable then at some near point you are going to
need a separate pair of clothes to wear when you are your biggest. Believe me, I
have two sets of dress shirts and pants....You are going to have strangers asking
if your a BODYBUILDER every time your out in public!!!!
This is what I would recommend in your new GROWTH phase:

1) There must be a solid base of whole foods consumed everyday. This base will
continue into your growth phase as you slowly increase calories as you develop.
2) Remove all stimulants (clen/ephedrine), T3, SUPPLEMENTS or ANY oral substance

that will be subject to first pass of the liver. Yes that includes all supplements
as some actually do place a load on the liver and cause interactions. You will use
ONE oral at a time cycled from time to time. But this is so highly individual, and
to be determined by your lean tissue development, body fat levels, experience of
LISTENING to your body. Most importantly GENETICS will dictate the outcome!!!!!.
Running blood lab tests will also help objectify the results on the body.
You will take as much as can comfortably and safely tolerate. What truly separated
the top cream of the crop back then was their ability to handle orals. But remember
this important fact; their ORAL intake was SIMPLY whole foods and one oral AAS.
There were no highly processed foods with chemicals back then. Not including all
the other MANY MANY auxiliaries you see taken today. A simple example to make my
point is ice cream. If you look at your ingredients on most ice creams you will
see at least 15-20 binders, colors, chemicals and preservatives. Back then there
were 4 ingredients in the ice cream. Cream sugar, egg yolks and the flavoring. Did
consuming whole foods have any effect on their ability to handle oral AAS
differently? That's the million dollar question......
3) Cardio will be a necessity, 4-6 days a week 30-35 minutes a day. NO more!!
4) Long and short acting injectables taken everyday. Your base will be Deca and
Test. If your NOT sensitive to Test and your using GH then do not be conservative
with the doses with test (go all out). If you cannot tolerate deca, then Eq will be
your next best base along with test. Orals will revolve around Dbol and Adrol.
Depending on your tolerance. When I am in the growth phase I will take half of my
daily oral intake 1.5hrs prior to training. The rest is evenly spread thought the
day. Remember one interesting fact, Dbol was only available in 5mgs tabs back in
the day.... So now you know what they meant by the phrase "taking it by the
handful!!"
5) Minimize any and all anti-estrogens if possible, especially if your NOT prone to
gyno or extreme bloating (body fat has a lot to do with this). You WANT estrogen as
part of the new equation. Masterone can be used, BUT if you can tolerate higher
doses of Test without mast then it will NOT be required. Yes, I actually am
suggesting no masterone either!!! (IT WAS NOT USED AGGRESSIVELY THEN EITHER). Just
to clarify the confusion of which cutting drugs were used by the MAJORITY in the
70's and 80's. I believe that would have been Primo, Anavar, winstrol and Halo, not
tren and mast.
6) Train hard and train SMART. Your not going to the gym to break world records.
During this growth phase you will experience the VERY best pumps and mind blowing
muscle connections. You will want to continually develop deeper and deeper
connections. Muscles will be so engorged with blood and fluid, you will have the
ability to deeply flex them while training. Personally, THIS CANNOT BE DONE WITH
CUTTING DRUGS and or in a low or ISO-caloric environment!!! (This is the key)
7) Once at 10-12% BF or so, it will be time to swing the pendulum back into the
other direction. And here, you will face a new psychological problem, letting go of
all the new VOLUME you have acquired, and begin the process of true discipline and
sacrifice in the cutting phase. At the end of your growth phase will be the first
time you truly feel like a BODYBUILDER.... You can eat just about anything, and
really enjoy life without reservations.
Hence the term "pema-bulker". This look for some is also extremely difficult to let
go, just as it will be for others to head aggressively in the other direction....
Now to make my final point as to why the growth phase is so important with the
RIGHT compounds. Always remember the inspirational contest condition pictures you
see were only taken once to twice a year for ONLY for a few weeks at a time. Those
conditions CANNOT be maintained!!!!! You need to see the reality of what your
favorite bodybuilders really looked like 50% of the year.
Most were smart enough to never allow pictures taken during deep off-season
training.
DrX
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you."
roon12
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� Reply #154 on: July 27, 2013, 09:19:07 AM �
ReplyQuote
Wow, incredible thread.
Thanks for all the info and experiences.
ryanbCXG
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Posts: 2201

� Reply #153 on: July 25, 2013, 12:11:47 AM �
ReplyQuote
DrX requested i put this in here so that others could possibly glean information
from it as well.
DrX
Since you have achieved the type of physique i am shooting for (70s type with thick
chest tight waist ect).
I was wondering what your thoughts on what my immediate goals should be.....cut,
bulk for more of a foundation because my structure is so lanky. Goal is the 70s
type physiqe just extreme thickness and density but tight waist.
I am happy to answer any questions. I also attached my transformation thread. At

the start there are my very beggining pics and the link is to the last page with
the most current pics. And the middle is my journey as long as i have been here.
http://gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=3720.msg487895#new
Thanks for any help, advice and time

Ryan
Everything Posted is for informational purposes and not real. Only regurgitating
information
DrX
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� Reply #152 on: July 24, 2013, 02:12:10 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: draaz on July 23, 2013, 02:37:58 AM
Alright I understand what you are saying, you make great points. So far I am
defiantly learning a ton about my physique, body, and who I am as a person As time
continues. With time I mean gaining more hands on experience with trial and error.
I get that my path is going to be different than yours or anyone else's on this
board for that matter. In a way hormone use has even matured me more than I
though, as I have experienced and thought things that never would have came into
play as a natural. Anyways I appreciate your answer, it's what I was looking for
really.
Life is short and FRAGILE, always find time to do what you love. However, it does
not always have to be at extremes.
Did I ever learn the word fragility two weeks ago...........
I was driving home from work, looking forward to seeing my new baby son when all of
a sudden... BAM. Another vehicle decided to make a right and cross my lane with no
notice. I crashed directly into her at about 50mph. No brakes, no warning. It
happened in an instance! No time to react or think. This was my first car accident.
The engine bay was crushed, pushed all the way back to the windshield.
But as I came to my senses and exited the car, I realized I was not really hurt. No
blood, no broken bones as far as I could tell. I stood there in shock for a few
minutes.
The first thing that came to mind was how do I tell my wife the car is totaled, but
at the same time assure her I am fine, without worrying her.
The more I think about it now, the arriving police officer actually provided the
comedy and the future mental relief for me...
After clearing traffic the newly arrived officer commented about the failed air
bags not deploying. This was a used car, so at that point we did not know why they
failed, other then they were completely removed. He actually stated my physical
shape was a factor in walking away. After checking on the other driver (she was
fine), I finally decided on how to gently break the news to my wife. Exactly when I
began to call her, the officer wanted to talk about bodybuilding. He actually began
to ask what exercises I do for my traps while I was on the phone.. He kindly
realized the urgency of the call and waited till I finished my call, then he
continued to ask many more. It was 100 degrees outside and my only goal was to get
the new baby seat out of the rear seat. So as I struggled on one side with the
strap hooks, he opened the other rear door not to help me, but to ask me more
questions, now about supplements..... I looked at him with a cold stare and thought
to myself......REALLY RIGHT NOW.......
Did my physique safe me? Absolutely not!!
It came down to sheer luck, and crash engineering of the cars engine bay.
At times I feel like Superman, invincible!!! This experience humbled me!!!

you."
draaz
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Posts: 532

� Reply #151 on: July 23, 2013, 02:37:58 AM �
ReplyQuote
Alright I understand what you are saying, you make great points. So far I am
defiantly learning a ton about my physique, body, and who I am as a person As time
continues. With time I mean gaining more hands on experience with trial and error.
I get that my path is going to be different than yours or anyone else's on this
board for that matter. In a way hormone use has even matured me more than I
though, as I have experienced and thought things that never would have came into
play as a natural. Anyways I appreciate your answer, it's what I was looking for
really.
DrX
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Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #150 on: July 23, 2013, 02:14:53 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: draaz on July 22, 2013, 10:14:18 PM
Hello, Iv/e been following your thread, thanks for giving everyone all that
personal experience and info/advice. It helps me out i know for certain, and tons
of others.
How long have you been using aas if you don't mind me asking? I ask because I am
curious in terms of longevity, as I began at 19. And do you use hcg? My balls do
shrink especially if on for a while and i just don't like the aesthetics especially
at 21. I am aware it is a personal question, but If on long enough i'm sure it's a
relevant question many on here would like to hear an opinion on. So what do you do
about that issue i ask. Thanks a lot.
I started in my mid to early 20's, but the philosophies in regards to the protocols
were very different then. You are faced with the truth of what it takes to build a
world class physique!!!! To the doses and the HARD reality of never coming off to
achieve ones goals.
We did not have to make the very difficult decisions you have to make at this age
because we were taught to use EXTREMELY low does back then, and for only 12-16 week
periods. We were mislead into cycles, where you were on and off for the same time.
And once completely off, no bridges or compounds to maintain mass. So in reality we
were only on twice a year. The end results had positives and negatives. We never
suffered from the issues we see today where most blast out of the gate. Nolvadex
was used by me personally (not hcg) for 3 to 4 weeks after the last week after
tapering down from the peek weeks. The testicles always came back to full size
after a month or two. This continued on and off for the next 15 years or so, but I
loved training, so I never missed the gym regardless if I was on or off...
My truthful reality when I was off, I would always came down to the same genetic
set point in size and strength. Regardless of dose or compounds when on, the body
would ALWAYS regress.... What was that set point for me. It was the size and
strength I achieved on my third cycle...
I wish I can guide you on this very personal question. But I can't. You have to
decide what is best for you. You have to decide based on the truth of all the
positives and NEGATIVES it WILL bring into your life. Each generation from the 70's
on brought new size and mass to the stage, along with new protocols outside the
world of anabolics. Along with the development, came the reality of greater risks
to their future health.
At an older age, and after focusing on balance in life, the decision was easy for
me.
you."
draaz
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*****
Posts: 532

� Reply #149 on: July 22, 2013, 10:14:18 PM �
ReplyQuote
Hello, Iv/e been following your thread, thanks for giving everyone all that
personal experience and info/advice. It helps me out i know for certain, and tons
of others.
How long have you been using aas if you don't mind me asking? I ask because I am
curious in terms of longevity, as I began at 19. And do you use hcg? My balls do
shrink especially if on for a while and i just don't like the aesthetics especially
at 21. I am aware it is a personal question, but If on long enough i'm sure it's a
relevant question many on here would like to hear an opinion on. So what do you do
about that issue i ask. Thanks a lot.
thewrongadvices
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 1870

� Reply #148 on: July 21, 2013, 07:51:12 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX, I admire your commitment to longevity. It can teach us all if we want to be in
this game for the long run.
DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #147 on: July 21, 2013, 07:05:47 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: bigal on July 17, 2013, 06:51:04 PM
Just read the entire thread. Dr X definitely needs to be elevated for sure. You
have made me re-think some things and I will be incorporating for sure in my
routine. Just a plethora of knowledge.
Bigal, I am thrilled you found some new or revived views that may help you obtain
your goals. My hope is to get you to share which aspects in particular help you
through the process. Why?
If you carefully read through the threads in most sections the most popular topics
are how to get from point A to B in the shortest time frame. Usually the questions
go like this. I have three weeks to get shredded for my neighbors, ex-wife's,
brothers wedding? How do I do it? I'm going on vacation in two weeks and I need to
"blow up" fast. What would you recommend? I am bloated and need to get rid of water
for a pool party this weekend. What should I take? The responses are usually the
same. Bump up the tren, increase your T3 (shudder), add a diuretic or two or
three.....
Unfortunately, you will never get that advice from here....
What happened to the fundamentals of planning, diet, cardio?
You will rarely see someone come in to these threads and reinforce the important
fundamentals of who we are. Bodybuilding for those with short term goals will
generally burn out before their true genetic potential is achieved. There have
been many threads of those who have damaged themselves out of bodybuilding. This
thread will probably not be very popular with a here and now mentality. What I
advocate will not be apparent to your physiques in the next few weeks or months. My
recommendations will manifest themselves years down the road...
So please share.....
DrX
you."
DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #146 on: July 19, 2013, 01:45:06 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Bigwavesurfer on July 18, 2013, 01:09:58 AM
great post! Wish some of the old retired pros would come here and share their
training, dieting, and gear protocols. You think they would be more open about it
considering they don't compete or profit from it anymore.
What differentiates the pro's from ME are a couple of known personal factors. My
very first cycle was an eye opener to the true differences in genetics and the
response to the same compounds and DOSE. My best friend and I trained naturally
together for a little over 4 years before we decided to venture over to the "dark
side". We also had a solid diet base and training schedule, before we spent the
next year reading books and understanding the basics of AAS before we started. He
already had built a very muscular physique, that in today's world he would have
been accused of using. His natural strength curve especially on flat bench and
squats were amazing. My assumption was that if we both were using the same
compounds at the same dose we would finally be equal to each other in both strength
increases and muscle tissue growth. Boy was I ever wrong!!!! To make things more
interesting doses at that time, especially on first cycles were never more the
300mgs a week TOTAL. They were actually tapered up to 300mgs for a couple of weeks
and back down to 50mgs a week.
His strength curve and lean tissue growth went exponential beyond that point with
every new cycle. I also gained size and strength and was very very happy with my
results, but there was a sudden awakening to the real truth of genetics. Him and I
were not equal!!
If the pros come on here and gave me step by step instructions from the exact
exercises to the foods eaten, to the dose, timing and exact AAS used, I would still
never come close to their level of development. I can strive for my own personal
best, but as a result of this experience I have always been realistic. The new goal
for me was to never compare, but to slowly evolve at the pace my body was built
for.
Now that genetics had been solidified, I knew the second factor was and IS the
biggest contributor to the reason certain bodybuilders change and grow year to year
and others don't. The pro's make their living of physical progress. There are
competitions, shows, engagements or in other words a VERY strict time line to
accomplish goals or they don't get paid. Year to year, day to day they are ALWAYS
DEEPLY COMMITTED to one EXTREME pathway. GROWTH through extra calories, or DIETING
through restricted calories. They are generally never in stagnation. So in other
words I copied what I felt was the key. I am always either in a bulking growth
stage or dieting, never in-between. Each and every time I come down to 6% I have
gained new tissue. Regardless of the compounds used, I have learned over the years
stagnation is the death of bodybuilding for me...
DrX
you."
DrX
WIZARD
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Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #145 on: July 18, 2013, 01:14:51 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: RustNeverSleeps on July 17, 2013, 06:25:28 PM
A wealth of knowledge in this thread, thank you Dr.X
You and I are of similar height, if I could develop a physique even as half as
impressive as yours I'd be satisfied (well, nearly ;D )
You absolutely could build a physique like mine with ease and probably to a better
degree. There is plenty of time for you. The resources you have here at GH15, are
mind blowing!!! Take advantage of everything the site offers and more importantly
give back. Once you put the other key variables together such a SOLID diet base and
consistent cardio, you will achieve your goals. Be patient!!!!
The psychological battle we ALL fight. You will never be satisfied. I never am!!!

you."
5antom
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 1202


� Reply #144 on: July 18, 2013, 07:03:04 AM �
ReplyQuote
Excellent thread. subbing for the info.
Side question: been looking at reading some Nietzsche but can't decide where to
start. If you had to recommend one book, what would it be?
DrX
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 735
5'7"

� Reply #143 on: July 18, 2013, 03:24:15 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Gatts on July 17, 2013, 10:40:53 PM
This topic is really one of the best ever!
I think a lot like you, my favourite physiques were developed between the 70's and
early 90's.
Compunds were very basic nothing exotic like you said: low test, primo,
deca,masteron, parabolan,equipoise, winny,dbol, anadrol,anavar, halo, some gh and
little slin (late 80's early 90's).
Have you ever tried the old school Vince Gironda's diet? Zero carbs using lean
beef, whole eggs, chicken breast, tuna along with some cottage cheese and salad?
Including a cheat day per week...
Keep posting bro!
When it comes to diets the first thing I always do is take a step back and ask a
few questions. It helps clarify the goal and end results. First, would this "diet"
work in an environment where growth, strength and mass is the ultimate goal. Or is
the "diet" more suited for someone who has built a NEW base and was looking to trim
down.
The key to understand is, the same diet will not work in both directions!!!
There has to be some modifications based on calories and missing macro-nutrients. I

am a believer in having a good base of nutrient rich carbs in the growth
environment. Not an excess of the empty refined types (but there are times when
they will be needed). Insulin release via carbohydrate consumption is part of the
game plan during this time. Vince's diet is similar to the base on page 3 during
the last 6-8 weeks left in the diet. Carbs are removed slowly and replaced with
fats. The only differences is I NEVER remove the vegetables. The other issue I have
is how does one eat on his cheat day. All out empty calorie fest, or an
incorporation of missing foods that provide key nutrients (vitamins/minerals) you
are not getting on the six days? I personally prefer diets to have that constant
base of nutrients for maximum growth and recuperation.
you."
Bigwavesurfer
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 827

� Reply #142 on: July 18, 2013, 01:09:58 AM �
ReplyQuote
great post! Wish some of the old retired pros would come here and share their
training, dieting, and gear protocols. You think they would be more open about it
considering they don't compete or profit from it anymore.
resler
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 539

� Reply #141 on: July 17, 2013, 10:51:59 PM �
ReplyQuote
What do you mean you are shredded?
Gatts
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 2094

� Reply #140 on: July 17, 2013, 10:40:53 PM �
ReplyQuote
This topic is really one of the best ever!
I think a lot like you, my favourite physiques were developed between the 70's and
early 90's.
Compunds were very basic nothing exotic like you said: low test, primo,
deca,masteron, parabolan,equipoise, winny,dbol, anadrol,anavar, halo, some gh and
little slin (late 80's early 90's).
Have you ever tried the old school Vince Gironda's diet? Zero carbs using lean
beef, whole eggs, chicken breast, tuna along with some cottage cheese and salad?
Including a cheat day per week...
Keep posting bro!

Confucius
lasarrr
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*****
Posts: 652

� Reply #139 on: July 17, 2013, 08:23:06 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Lean82 on July 17, 2013, 04:47:46 AM
The most recent post (which I won't quote again due to length), and this thread
overall is a gold mine.
Bravo DrX. Bravo.
+1
ill just quote lean. This thread as a whole has been an excellent read. And my aim
is to get a golden era body. Thread is a gold mine!
in the making....
bigal
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 659
� Reply #138 on: July 17, 2013, 06:51:04 PM �
ReplyQuote
Just read the entire thread. Dr X definitely needs to be elevated for sure. You
have made me re-think some things and I will be incorporating for sure in my
routine. Just a plethora of knowledge.
RustNeverSleeps
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 1723
5'5"

� Reply #137 on: July 17, 2013, 06:25:28 PM �
ReplyQuote
A wealth of knowledge in this thread, thank you Dr.X
You and I are of similar height, if I could develop a physique even as half as
impressive as yours I'd be satisfied (well, nearly ;D )
R.I.P Prowrestler ?
NeilGM
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 4559

� Reply #136 on: July 17, 2013, 05:37:28 PM �
ReplyQuote
Good to see more people stepping up and doing these! Great stuff DrX... I think we
going to need a special place to put all these sorts of threads in sooner or later
lol
MDK
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 322
MTS - dare,live and enjoy


� Reply #135 on: July 17, 2013, 09:37:37 AM �
ReplyQuote
this thread is golden, the last big post from drX is really something i see happen
alot with young guys switching to fast and not building a good foundation to go
from.
good thing this tread became a sticky.
keep up the great posts DrX!

dannyd
Emperor
*****
Posts: 2076

� Reply #134 on: July 17, 2013, 05:39:57 AM �
ReplyQuote
The whole thread is gold, but this line...
Remember this very very important fact. The cycle you see a bodybuilders post when
they are at their leanest are NOT THE CYCLES THEY USED DURING THEIR INITIAL GROWTH
STAGES TO CREATE ALL THE MASS YOU SEE.
this is the line of the thread.
I wish more guys would get this, to create your statue of David you first need a
giant slab of marble from which to start carving out of. There was a time that
statue was nothing more than a thought and a huge ugly block...that is bb'ing...we
can't be pretty all the time but if you give yourself something to carve out of it
in time with hard work it's going to be a work of art. Without that slab you can
still carve but will it be the piece people will talk about or will it be just
another statue...your choice...

Lean82
JEDI
******
Posts: 8008

� Reply #133 on: July 17, 2013, 04:47:46 AM �
ReplyQuote
The most recent post (which I won't quote again due to length), and this thread
overall is a gold mine.
Bravo DrX. Bravo.

nymuscle
WIZARD
*****
Posts: 913
I won't fail
Re: DrX Photos.... Nutritional Protocol

� Reply #132 on: July 17, 2013, 04:33:37 AM �
ReplyQuote
Very good read

The Placebo!!
I have an interesting story to share which happened to one of my training partners.
It was a learning experience for him and I hope for many of you. It is related to
many placebos you will face in bodybuilding and life in general that lead to
INDIRECT fat loss. After you read this, you will undoubtedly recognize placebos in
threads and understand the real reason for fat loss.
To make a long story short my training partner has been trying to get his wife to
begin exercising and lose fat after their first child. The more he tried over the
years the harder she resisted. One day out of the blue she goes to a "supplement"
home party where a (snake oil) salesman was there to present an all new and
revolutionary item that they were only privy to!!! She brought home a few bottles
of a VERY expensive cream that she was to rub on her stomach everyday which would
miraculously "burn" fat right of her midsection. He came to the gym the following
day and asked me to read the ingredients and make sure it was safe for her. It was
nothing more then caffeine and good carrier which would do nothing more then remove
subcutaneous water. The only issues she may face is if she was sensitive to
caffeine. I explained to him to let her start, as this could be the beginning of a
psychological reinforcement that might actually change her lifestyle which would
eventually lead to true fat loss. More importantly he was not tell her the truth,
but to just to quietly watch and observe! Why? She would only get very defensive at
first!!
So as time progressed he reported back to me with changes. She began to develop a

positive self image as her measured waist come down in size. I asked him to gently
remind her how good she looked to help with the reinforcement. Over time she
started to prepare dinners that were cooked for the family with healthier
selections. He noticed her snacking also was curtailed at night. She also even took
some time after work to walk the dog. The slight and constant drop of calories,
with the increased energy expenditure (walking dogs) was the cause of the fat loss.
The initial water removal caused a very powerful and EMOTIONAL effect. The placebo
was in full control. As far as she was concerned the cream was the 100%
contributing factor to her loss. She even went on to sell the cream to many of her
other friends as they witnessed her progress. The cycle continues......
Explaining to someone that supplements don't work, especially when hard earned
money is valued then exchanged for a product AND an emotional attachment has been
created is at times like arguing over religion or politics.
The story goes far further then supplements but to actual AAS that many mistakes
related to fat loss are made. Due to the bodies innate need for ultimate survival,
there are pre-wired steps or procedures the body takes under certain circumstances.
The first body response to change (via increased energy expenditure or calorie
reduction) is the LOSS OF WATER. Intracellular and extracellular water along with
stored glycogen will be sacrificed FIRST. Body fat is required for survival so the
lighter the body in weight, the longer the body can retain the all important fat
stores. Consider it like a airplane getting ready for take off. It has to generate
enough speed through distance to get air above and below the wings for lift. The
body will not IMMEDIATELY tap into body fats stores. You have to generate enough of
a deficit over a genetic predetermined time to where the body will begin to
mobilize fatty acids. So when you see or hear a user state they ate pizza all day
on X compound and woke up in the morning with a six pack you now understand it was
only related to water manipulation properties (especially with tren). What happens
beyond this point is exactly like what my friends wife experienced. The true fat
loss only occurs slowly with time as the user unconsciously changes food intake.
This powerful reinforcement will also positively change mood in the gym. Training
is more intense, your more focused, your stronger causing higher energy
expenditure. The next statement is critical to understand. Fat loss will only last
for so long before the body hits a pivot point. This is where true equilibrium
comes into play. There will be no more additional fat loss beyond this point
without true calorie restriction or energy output modifications.
To develop a physique like in the 70's and 80's, do not get caught up in
misdirecting threads. Pick your pathway. A bodybuilder who has built a solid
foundation of lean tissue, who falls into the range of GH15's AAS only body chart,
and who obtains lower body fat levels will respond very different to AAS then newer
users with higher body fat users. The biggest mistakes I see with new and excited
bodybuilders are ones who change protocols to frequently and get caught up in the
hype. One day it is this cycle, next week new compounds or auxiliaries are added.
The following week they are dieting, then they are lean bulking. This is a recipe
for failure. Pick your path and stick to it.....Remember this very very important
fact. The cycle you see a bodybuilders post when they are at their leanest are NOT
THE CYCLES THEY USED DURING THEIR INITIAL GROWTH STAGES TO CREATE ALL THE MASS YOU
SEE.
Why is this so important? Or how do you separate yourself from every other "gym
goer", or bodybuilder out there? Your defining moment will come down to one thing.
Your ability to know how to diet down to sub 6% while maintaining lean tissue that
you have developed on your growth stages. It will never matter what you look like
at you biggest, thickest stage. Just about anyone with a good selection of AAS can
generally grow in the bulking phase, which was personally the easiest and funnest
stage of bodybuilding for me. What truly separates you from everyone else will be
the ability to stick to a dieting plan when your suffering, tired, angry, weak, and
hungry. There may be a time where you will have to redirect time and energy away
from AAS knowledge, and re-focus efforts back into foundations specific to diet and
cardio to get the job done.
My personal suggestion if you want to embark on this 70's-80's pathway is to come

down to under 6% FIRST. Commit yourself!!!!!!!!!!! Then and only then will the
growth phase really really shine. You will have more wiggle room to play with
before you hit body fat levels that will work against you. But in each phase,
dedication to TIME will be the key. Do not get distracted.....
A couple pictures of inspiration from two different generations...
DrX
The God himself on me
Quote from: gh15 on December 12, 2011, 05:41:52 AM
you have a lot to be proud of friend,, i just took look in your pictures,, i must
say to you that this is IS determination ,, i beleive you will get far in
bodybuilding,, this is my personal opinion ,, keep it with
The Placebo!!
I have an interesting story to share which happened to one of my training partners.

It was a learning experience for him and I hope for many of you. It is related to
many placebos you will face in bodybuilding and life in general that lead to
INDIRECT fat loss. After you read this, you will undoubtedly recognize placebos in
threads and understand the real reason for fat loss.
To make a long story short my training partner has been trying to get his wife to
begin exercising and lose fat after their first child. The more he tried over the
years the harder she resisted. One day out of the blue she goes to a "supplement"
home party where a (snake oil) salesman was there to present an all new and
revolutionary item that they were only privy to!!! She brought home a few bottles
of a VERY expensive cream that she was to rub on her stomach everyday which would
miraculously "burn" fat right of her midsection. He came to the gym the following
day and asked me to read the ingredients and make sure it was safe for her. It was
caffeine combined with a good carrier which would do nothing more then remove
subcutaneous water. The only issues she may face is if she was sensitive to
caffeine. I explained to him to let her start, as this could be the beginning of a
psychological reinforcement that might actually change her lifestyle which would
eventually lead to true fat loss. More importantly he was not tell her the truth,
but to just to quietly watch and observe! Why? She would only get very defensive at
first!!
So as time progressed he reported back to me with changes. She began to develop a

positive self image as her measured waist come down in size. I asked him to gently
remind her how good she looked to help with the reinforcement. Instead of bringing
home pre-prepared HEAVY SODIUM grocery store and fast food bought processed foods,
she started fresh dinners that were cooked for the family with healthier selections
(major drop in weight due to sodium). He also noticed her snacking also was
curtailed at night. She also even took some time after work to walk the dog. The
slight and constant drop of calories, along with the increased energy expenditure
(walking dogs) was the cause of the fat loss. The initial water removal caused a
very powerful and EMOTIONAL effect. The placebo was in full control. As far as she
was concerned the cream was the 100% contributing factor to her loss. She even went
on to sell the cream to many of her other friends as they witnessed her progress.
The cycle continues......
Explaining to someone that supplements don't work, especially when hard earned
money is valued then exchanged for a product AND an emotional attachment has been
created is at times like arguing over religion or politics.
The story goes far further then supplements but to actual AAS that many mistakes
related to fat loss are made. Due to the bodies innate need for ultimate survival,
there are pre-wired steps or procedures the body takes under certain circumstances.
The first body response to change (via increased energy expenditure or calorie
reduction) is the LOSS OF WATER. Intracellular and extracellular water along with
stored glycogen will be sacrificed FIRST. Body fat is required for survival so the
lighter the body in weight, the longer the body can retain the all important fat
stores. Consider it like a airplane getting ready for take off. It has to generate
enough speed through distance to get air above and below the wings for lift. The
body will not IMMEDIATELY tap into body fats stores. You have to generate enough of
a deficit over a genetic predetermined time to where the body will begin to
mobilize fatty acids. So when you see or hear a user state they ate pizza all day
on X compound and woke up in the morning with a six pack you now understand it was
only related to water manipulation properties (especially with tren). What happens
beyond this point is exactly like what my friends wife experienced. The true fat
loss only occurs slowly with time as the user unconsciously changes food intake.
This powerful reinforcement will also positively change mood in the gym. Training
is more intense, your more focused, your stronger causing higher energy
expenditure. The next statement is critical to understand. Fat loss will only last
for so long before the body hits a pivot point. This is where true equilibrium
comes into play. There will be no more additional fat loss beyond this point
without true calorie restriction or energy output modifications.
To develop a physique like in the 70's and 80's, do not get caught up in
misdirecting threads. Pick your pathway. A bodybuilder who has built a solid
foundation of lean tissue, who falls into the range of GH15's AAS only body chart,
and who obtains lower body fat levels will respond very different to AAS then newer
users with higher body fat to lean tissue ratios. The biggest mistakes I see with
new and excited bodybuilders are ones who change protocols to frequently and get
caught up in the hype. One day it is this cycle, next week new compounds or
auxiliaries are added. The following week they are dieting, then they are lean
bulking. This is a recipe for failure. Pick your path and stick to it.....Remember
this very very important fact. The cycle you see a bodybuilders post when they are
at their leanest are NOT THE CYCLES THEY USED DURING THEIR INITIAL GROWTH STAGES TO
CREATE ALL THE MASS YOU SEE.
Why is this so important? Or how do you separate yourself from every other "gym
goer", or bodybuilder out there? Your defining moment will come down to one thing.
Your ability to know how to diet down to sub 6% while maintaining lean tissue that
you have developed on your growth stages. It will never matter what you look like
at you biggest, thickest stage. Just about anyone with a good selection of AAS can
generally grow in the bulking phase, which was personally the easiest and funnest
stage of bodybuilding for me. What truly separates you from everyone else will be
the ability to stick to a dieting plan when your suffering, tired, angry, weak, and
hungry. There may be a time where you will have to redirect time and energy away
from AAS knowledge, and re-focus efforts back into foundations specific to diet and
cardio to get the job done.
My personal suggestion if you want to embark on this 70's-80's pathway is to come

down to under 6% FIRST. Commit yourself!!!!!!!!!!! Then and only then will the
growth phase really really shine. You will have more wiggle room to play with
before you hit body fat levels that will work against you. But in each phase,
dedication to TIME will be the key. Do not get distracted.....
A couple pictures of inspiration from two different generations...
DrX
* fletcher005.jpg (94.63 kB, 574x966 - viewed 311 times.)
* 3426434983_846da0d93d.jpg (42.78 kB, 336x480 - viewed 306 times.)

you."
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Re: DrX Updated Photos.... Pg1

� Reply #130 on: July 16, 2013, 02:06:28 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: fluery on July 14, 2013, 06:20:17 PM
Hey DrX, cool thread! Regarding calcium and dairy and everything, is it a bad idea
to go for the low or no fat versions of greek yogurt and cottage cheese? I eat tons
of those foods every day, but usually not the full fat version. Am I missing out on
anything?
You absolutly must have vitamin k2 with calcium as most.western diets severly
deficint. K2 is what transfer the calcium from.blood to.bones without.it it is
number one.cause of artery hardening and heart diease. In America. Women in other
countryside who eat k2 and one fourth amount of calcium of American.women.have
less.than half osteoporosis rate.
The calcium leads to build up in your arterys. Also beleibed to be fact in hair
loss and hair not regrowing since blood flow cannot get to.the tiny vessels already
now blocked more from.calcium not being able to make it thru the blood barrier to
bone. Which k2 does.
We use.to.get lots of k2 from.butter. but our cows r grain fed having little k2. As
grass fed cow grass has lots of k1 which there stomah can make it into k2 where
human can't do much with k1 conversion.
Look up France study very little heart diease from consuming lots of grass fed
butter. And Japanese eating natto k2
Also a drug Japanese made called galaxy synthetic k2 mk4 high dose reverse artarial
calcification.
If.Ye going to eat lots of calcium u need high k2 with it.

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� Reply #129 on: July 15, 2013, 01:10:06 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: KD35 on July 14, 2013, 08:34:21 PM
Quote from: bustinass on July 14, 2013, 06:51:58 PM
anything?
If you eat it, eat it right with full fat version
Body needs and loves some fats and especially when cutting
I just ate 5 whole eggs with bacon!

Some people's stomachs don't handle full cream
Caution to those who have not had dairy foods in a while and want to reintroduce
them back into your diet. You will more then likely no longer be producing the
lactase enzyme that completely breaks apart the milk sugar that gives it the sweet
taste. This will cause bloating, abdominal pain and diarrhea. Start with very small
amounts of cheeses, yogurt at first and see how you respond. Milk will be an issue
for most at first...
http://chriskresser.com/how-to-cure-lactose-intolerance
you."
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� Reply #128 on: July 14, 2013, 08:34:21 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: bustinass on July 14, 2013, 06:51:58 PM
anything?

Some people's stomachs don't handle full cream
bustinass
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� Reply #127 on: July 14, 2013, 06:51:58 PM �
ReplyQuote
anything?

DrX
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� Reply #126 on: July 14, 2013, 06:49:51 PM �
ReplyQuote
anything?
No, not to any major degree.. Depending on you calorie intake you could substitute
the higher fat version on days where weight training loads and stress are the
highest. Example would be leg days.
If you like to read scientific journals then this may help. This is from The
Journal of Nutrition. It is a peer-reviewed scientific journal published by the
American Society for Nutrition. Its ranked 10th out of 74 journals. In other words
you can trust the content. It will discuss calcium, the very complicated absorption
process, and the other variables to consider.
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/129/1/9.long
you."
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� Reply #125 on: July 14, 2013, 06:20:17 PM �
ReplyQuote
anything?
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� Reply #124 on: July 14, 2013, 05:42:47 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Lean82 on July 14, 2013, 03:23:02 PM
^^^Yes, and I believe that Magnesium Taurate is the best mag forumla to use...all
others are either not well abosrbed or will active as a laxative b/c it Magnesium
has muscular relaxing properites, and in forms other than taurate, this relaxing
property is exhibited in the intestinal wall thus causing the poops.
Or, another form that I like to use is a spray on form of magnesium...it is

absorbed through the skin. It will give you all the benefits of magnesium, but
never has to pass through your gastro tract. It helps VERY much with sleep as
well...you will sleep deep, peaceful, and have very vivid dreams. Take before bed
(the spray kind) b/c it really will knock you out.
Some of the bodybuilders of the 70's and 80's would have marathon two hr secessions
of weight training. How did they do that. Well part of the answer was in the
differences in diet between then and now. Their diet was concentrated on whole
foods that contained the best sources of calcium. Today's diet has been replaced by
highly processed foods and other non calcium based foods that have been fortified
(ex orange juice). Manufactures cleverly fortified key element into as many foods
as they can as marketing ploy!!!
However due to competition at the absorption sites in the small intestine, today's
processed and fortified foods fall extremely short at providing you with what you
need. One of the food groups many trainers do not take or avoid all together is in
the dairy based foods. Dairy was a major food group of the past!!! They are the
BEST source of Calcium out side of dark green leafy vegetables. Not only are they
the richest sources but the absorption rates are unmatched!!
The food base I presented has two dairy sources, consumed before and after
training. Greek Yogurt and cottage cheese and other cheeses.
Great info in here DrX.
I LOVE milk and drink it every single day, outside of last 6-7 weeks of cutting
Before I used to drink minimum of 2 liters every day, doesnt get better then that
And no low fat stuff either, full milk

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� Reply #123 on: July 14, 2013, 05:26:50 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Lean82 on July 14, 2013, 03:23:02 PM
as they can as a marketing ploy!!!
training. These are Greek Yogurt, cottage cheese and other hard cheeses.
you."
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� Reply #122 on: July 14, 2013, 03:23:02 PM �
ReplyQuote


DrX
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Re: DrX Photos.... Nutritional Protocol

� Reply #121 on: July 14, 2013, 02:52:05 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: taeian on July 12, 2013, 02:34:57 AM
i must say this for you all to think about. Supplement vitamins is nessacry unless
you live off your own land.
The fertizilers we use on our soils in developed countries ruins our minerals of
fruits and veftable. These values were done many years ago. Some crops newly tested
that normally contain over 10 minerals come up with three minerals or less in such
low doses and the fertizilers allow plants to grow in these conditions. If your
euro American any developed country now a days you must take vitamin.
Sorry its truth. It is funny we are only diabeties hair loss cancer obesity thyroid
disaster country's.
You will never reach your magnesium levels off the American vegetables. Low
magnesium is being looked at main cause of diabetes as its seen in all diabetics
and linked to heart disease and for vain bber also hair loss. Magnesium shown to
improve. Insulin sensitivy. By 50 percent many new ground breaking studies on it.
And oats and grains and. Bread. All that gluten will lead to great mineral
deficancys. As it prevents absorption.
I agree with you in the importance of Magnesium. I feel the other EXTREMELY
critical element is Calcium. If you noticed my base of foods, they were all very
high sources of Magnesium and CALCIUM . Simple links below to read...
http://www.healthaliciousness.com/articles/foods-high-in-magnesium.php
http://www.livestrong.com/article/504840-why-is-calcium-important-to-muscle-
function/
you."
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� Reply #120 on: July 12, 2013, 02:34:57 AM �
ReplyQuote
i must say this for you all to think about. Supplement vitamins is nessacry unless
you live off your own land.
The fertizilers we use on our soils in developed countries ruins our minerals of
fruits and veftable. These values were done many years ago. Some crops newly tested
that normally contain over 10 minerals come up with three minerals or less in such
low doses and the fertizilers allow plants to grow in these conditions. If your
euro American any developed country now a days you must take vitamin.
Sorry its truth. It is funny we are only diabeties hair loss cancer obesity thyroid
disaster country's.
You will never reach your magnesium levels off the American vegetables. Low
magnesium is being looked at main cause of diabetes as its seen in all diabetics
and linked to heart disease and for vain bber also hair loss. Magnesium shown to
improve. Insulin sensitivy. By 50 percent many new ground breaking studies on it.
And oats and grains and. Bread. All that gluten will lead to great mineral
deficancys. As it prevents absorption.
re4per
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� Reply #119 on: July 11, 2013, 11:36:08 PM �
ReplyQuote
thank you drx!
u are a great asset to this board

Lean82
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� Reply #118 on: July 11, 2013, 11:12:42 PM �
ReplyQuote
GREAT post! Well worth reading again.

What I do with AAS is similar to my food diet base. I will have a base of constant
AAS that works very well for ME. This usually revolves around deca and test. I will
only rotate compounds (Mast/Primo/EQ/Var/Adrol/Dbol/Winny/ every couple of months
or so. Orals are used for about a month and a half then off for the same time. If
dieting, the time off orals will shrink. The closer I get to 4%, the longer I stay
on them.
There are a few other keys to my own personal growth:

1) Short and LONG acting esters are injected every day for constant blood values
resulting in minimal side effects.
2) Nutrients rich foods are consumed every day to support growth and corresponding
stresses.
3) Five to six days of training a week is extremely efficient for the doses I use.
No less, or I tend to became stagnant. I do believe if most prioritized their diets
they would be able to add in a few more training days with greater results.
4) SLEEP!!!! SLEEP!!!!! Find compounds that allow DEEP sleep every night. This is
where the body repairs itself. Adding in additional sleep medications (other the
GH) to compensate for AAS that effects sleep is a huge mistake.
5) I don't play around with the exotic analogs or the new 'it" things. ALL the
bodybuilders from the past developed their physiques on the same key 8-10 core AAS.
Nothing more, nothing less. Simplicity, patience, and discipline was the recipe. It
worked then and it works now!!!
B_seem
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� Reply #117 on: July 11, 2013, 03:21:39 PM �
ReplyQuote
Those 5 keys listed above are some very good points. I just read through this
thread and it was great!
I agree with you completely about veggies being in your diet. I think they are a
must, not just for health purposes, but for also becoming the best bodybuilder you
can be. I am blessed enough to have a garden so I don't have to spend money on
buying vegetables at the store, but if you don't have that luxury then try and go
to your local farmers market and pick up some fresh fruit as vegetables. 9/10 times
they will be cheaper there than at Walmart or some place like that.
DrX
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� Reply #116 on: July 11, 2013, 01:49:51 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: re4per on July 10, 2013, 02:30:36 PM
awesome thread
how long do u usually blast and use orals and how long afterwards do u cruise?
the reason behind my question is, i wanted to try 8 weeks blast followed by a 4
week cruise
after 8 weeks, gains usually start to slow down for me, because life is catching up
(finals etc) and it's easier on my wallet and health
also thanks for ur advice about veggies, because i hate them, srsly, i NEVER buy
them, because to me they taste like crap
the only time i eat veggies is when im visiting my family and thats like every 2-3
weeks for 2-3 days :)
I have good news, and bad news for you. I do not blast, nor do I cruise. Doses are
kept relatively high and very constant. This is one of the keys to growth is
simplicity. If you look back on pictures of bodybuilders from the 70's and 80's
you will notice they did not peak in their physiques until they are into their
40's. Why? Muscle growth with ONLY AAS is a slow and ARDUOUS process!!!!!!
I will refer to this thread for inspiration:
What I do with AAS is similar to my food diet base. I will have a base of constant
AAS that works very well for ME. This usually revolves around deca and test. I will
only rotate compounds (Mast/Primo/EQ/Var/Adrol/Dbol/Winny/ every couple of months
or so. Orals are used for about a month and a half then off for the same time. If
dieting, the time off orals will shrink. The closer I get to 4%, the longer I stay
on them.
There are a few other keys to my own personal growth:

1) Short and LONG acting esters are injected every day for constant blood values
resulting in minimal side effects.
2) Nutrients rich foods are consumed every day to support growth and corresponding
stresses.
3) Five to six days of training a week is extremely efficient for the doses I use.
No less, or I tend to became stagnant. I do believe if most prioritized their diets
they would be able to add in a few more training days with greater results.
4) SLEEP!!!! SLEEP!!!!! Find compounds that allow DEEP sleep every night. This is
where the body repairs itself. Adding in additional sleep medications (other the
GH) to compensate for AAS that effects sleep is a huge mistake.
5) I don't play around with the exotic analogs or the new 'it" things. ALL the
bodybuilders from the past developed their physiques on the same key 8-10 core AAS.
Nothing more, nothing less. Simplicity, patience, and discipline was the recipe. It
worked then and it works now!!!

you."
re4per
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Posts: 630

� Reply #115 on: July 10, 2013, 02:30:36 PM �
ReplyQuote
awesome thread
how long do u usually blast and use orals and how long afterwards do u cruise?
the reason behind my question is, i wanted to try 8 weeks blast followed by a 4
week cruise
after 8 weeks, gains usually start to slow down for me, because life is catching up
(finals etc) and it's easier on my wallet and health
also thanks for ur advice about veggies, because i hate them, srsly, i NEVER buy
them, because to me they taste like crap
the only time i eat veggies is when im visiting my family and thats like every 2-3
weeks for 2-3 days :)
DrX
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� Reply #114 on: July 10, 2013, 01:37:55 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: thewrongadvices on July 09, 2013, 05:27:34 PM
why?
good-nutrition.aspx
Thanks for posting this link, very helpful. My shopping list will have some
additional items on it from now on.
Excellent!! The rewards will be well worth it in both body and health.
I debated some time over another positive consequence of a life style with nutrient
rich foods, AAS use, CARDIO and weight training. The reason I have gone back and
forth may have a lot to do with genetics and I could be over reaching certain
bounds. But it is worth mentioning. I have been virtually sick free with the flu or
any other immune system complication in over 15 years. While everyone around me
gets sick, I may have a small runny nose, or minor sore throat, but nothing that
has prevented me from the daily routine in any way. The role of AAS on the immune
system has been profound in my life. But the key was LISTENING to my body and
removing items or compounds that were toxic, or too demanding on my system.
you."
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� Reply #113 on: July 09, 2013, 09:33:54 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Bigzach1234 on July 08, 2013, 07:12:53 AM
Hey buddy. For those that really never had Vegtables in our diet cause we despise
the taste. Do u have any recommendations for tastey/healthy Vegtables that are easy
to prepare.
Anything that I should start with? Ie. grilled asparagus? Steamed cauliflower,
grilled zucchini with spices,
Also spinach isn't too bad, how would I cook/prepare it to taste good?
This is a difficult question to answer because I am not a great cook, and our
experiences and tastes would be very very different. The same analogy can be given
to someone who ask you what cycle your on and wants to copy it. My ethnic
background has spices and flavors added to the cooking process you may not be
familiar with. I don't like bland foods including my vegetables. It would be like
eating dried baked chicken with no seasonings everyday. You have to look at
vegetables the same way as you do preparing your protein sources. There is a
learning curve.
The vegetables you mentioned above would be a great start. Like I said to the above
poster, ENJOY the process and experiment, SLOWlY add in new foods and new cooking
techniques. Believe me a whole new world will open up to you. As for spinach, one
very easy way is to buy them in the salad section. Use the leaves as salad instead
of iceberg lettuce which has virtually no nutrients.
you."
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� Reply #112 on: July 09, 2013, 05:27:34 PM �
ReplyQuote
why?
good-nutrition.aspx
Thanks for posting this link, very helpful. My shopping list will have some
additional items on it from now on.
ryanbCXG
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� Reply #111 on: July 09, 2013, 03:30:57 PM �
ReplyQuote
My main reason was I buy in bulk as a med student I need to keep costs down. So I
buy spinach as my main veggie and grapes or pineapple for a main fruit. Hard for me
to purchase more than one and eat them before they go bad. I love veggies and
fruits. Stuff is so expensive though
The unfortunate high cost of fresh fruits and vegetables is a limiting factor for
my bodybuilders. You are not alone. Grocery stores are purposely set up to sell you
the most highly processed food items at the most convenient, closest locations and
aisles to the doors. Not only are they the worst to eat, but most processed foods
are priced the cheapest. This tactic is done because they know the power of
presentation combined with the lack of will power will win over the vast majority
of shoppers. All of the fresh healthy food items WILL ALWAYS be placed at the
furthermost outer rings of the supermarkets.
But I have a couple of solutions for you. The first depends on where you live. Here
in So California, we have a plethora of new Hispanic markets that have taken over
some of the failing major grocery stores. The sell the same items, but their fruits
and vegetables are half the price of upscale name brand supermarkets. If you have
an ethnic market near you venture in and see the selection. My bet is you will find
fruits and vegetables significantly cheaper, but even more important, a variety of
selections not found in traditional markets.
The other may be the easier and cheaper route for most. If you are buying you
groceries in bulk then buy all your vegetables and fruits frozen. This is important
to understand. Frozen fruits and vegetables are just as wholesome as the fresh
version. There is NO degradation of the vitamin or mineral content during the
process of freezing. What makes this easier is not only portion control but price
and convenience. Use what you need, and put it back into its original zip lock
bags. Your cooking methods are simplified even further. All you'll technically need
is boiling water, some seasoning and your favorite condiments. Prep time is under
5 minutes because most are even pre-washed!!!
Thanks for once again a well thought out post. And i agree with the frozen but
once again lovely limitations of only having so much space. But i will start
working on gettign some more of those in thanks
information
chris250
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� Reply #110 on: July 09, 2013, 11:23:25 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Lean82 on June 27, 2013, 10:48:06 PM
Quote from: iasb on June 25, 2013, 04:14:42 PM
No able to pin point this chart sounds like a good reference guide
When I first started reading and taking interest in GH15's philosophy, it was this
chart that solidified him as a someone of extreme knowledge. I do hope someone can
dig it up.....
gh15 is not the chart-making type, lol, but I did ask him for the height/weight/BF
for those only on AAS.
These following weights are assuming that you are between 4-6% bodyfat.
Height Weight(lbs)
5'5" 165-180
5'6" 172-187
5'7" 179-194
5'8" 186-201
5'9" 193-208
5'10" 200-215
5'11" 207-222
6'0" 214-229
6'1" 221-236
For every inch taller you increase the predicted weight by 7lbs, and for every inch
shorter, you subtract 7lbs for every inch lost.
im 5-10 and a 1/4 (years of deads made me shorter)...and I compete around

224lbs...so that chart is right on for me...(I use to be 5-11...
DrX
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� Reply #109 on: July 09, 2013, 02:16:53 AM �
ReplyQuote
The unfortunate high cost of fresh fruits and vegetables is a limiting factor for
many bodybuilders. You are not alone. Grocery stores are purposely set up to sell
you the most highly processed food items at the most convenient, closest locations
and aisles to the doors. Not only are they the worst to eat, but most processed
foods are priced the cheapest. This tactic is done because they know the power of
presentation combined with the lack of will power will win over the vast majority
of shoppers. All of the fresh healthy food items WILL ALWAYS be placed at the
furthermost outer rings of the supermarkets.
But I have a couple of solutions for you. The first depends on where you live. Here
in So California, we have a plethora of new Hispanic markets that have taken over
some of the failing major grocery stores. The sell the same items, but their fruits
and vegetables are half the price of upscale name brand supermarkets. If you have
an ethnic market near you venture in and see the selection. My bet is you will find
fruits and vegetables significantly cheaper, but even more important, a variety of
selections not found in traditional markets.
The other may be the easier and cheaper route for most. If you are buying you
groceries in bulk then buy all your vegetables and fruits frozen. This is important
to understand. Frozen fruits and vegetables are just as wholesome as the fresh
version. There is NO degradation of the vitamin or mineral content during the
process of freezing. What makes this easier is not only portion control but price
and convenience. Use what you need, and put it back into its original zip lock
bags. Your cooking methods are simplified even further. All you'll technically need
is boiling water, some seasoning and your favorite condiments. Prep time is under
5 minutes because most are even pre-washed!!!
you."
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� Reply #108 on: July 08, 2013, 05:41:23 PM �
ReplyQuote
Awesome thread as usual my friend.
ryanbCXG
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� Reply #107 on: July 08, 2013, 01:25:02 PM �
ReplyQuote
information
DrX
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� Reply #106 on: July 08, 2013, 01:02:06 PM �
ReplyQuote
why?
good-nutrition.aspx
you."
Bigzach1234
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� Reply #105 on: July 08, 2013, 07:12:53 AM �
ReplyQuote
Hey buddy. For those that really never had Vegtables in our diet cause we despise
the taste. Do u have any recommendations for tastey/healthy Vegtables that are easy
to prepare.
Anything that I should start with? Ie. grilled asparagus? Steamed cauliflower,
grilled zucchini with spices,
Also spinach isn't too bad, how would I cook/prepare it to taste good?
Quote from: noway55 on July 08, 2013, 01:35:13 PM
I don't always have girls tell me that they're going to drive 2 hours to rip my
clothes off, but when I do I'm probably on tren
tal78
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� Reply #104 on: July 07, 2013, 11:02:13 PM �
ReplyQuote
would love to see your exemple bodybuilding recipe,great body felicitation
Every man dies, not every man really lives.
ryanbCXG
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� Reply #103 on: July 07, 2013, 08:53:58 PM �
ReplyQuote
why?
information
RigidVillain
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� Reply #102 on: July 07, 2013, 07:27:17 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Galaxy on June 28, 2013, 12:13:59 AM
Quote from: Lean82 on June 28, 2013, 12:05:12 AM
But it is not really "small" if it is all muscle.
Remember that guy named Arnold...remember his height and competitive weight? It
falls right in line with this chart. Of course Arnold played around with cadaver gh
towards the end of his career, but it wasn't anything crazy.
You've got to remember that a lot of the weight (not size, but weight) that all the
top guys carry today comes from gh and insulin abuse. Take those away and leave
them on AAS only and they will shrink down to these figures.
Yeah all the classic bodybuilders were very light ! Crazy how much insulin makes
people weigh compare to what they look like !
I'm just naturally heavy so it feels like the weights are very light, but I carry
much more fat and water which makes a shit ton of difference as what replaces it is
pure muscle!
I really look forward to getting completely shredded when I get on hormones to

really see how much I weigh at 5%
Have to be satisfied with 9-10% for now as a natural.
how are you a wizard if you are a natural?? ive been hormonized for almost a year
and im still not wizard
Remember there are plenty good oils in this diet, it is high in fiber, contains low
calorie high vitamin/mineral rich foods. I do not believe in supplements, with the
one exception of the 1/2 scoop of whey in the oatmeal for breakfast"
While I have a few minutes, I should expand on the important statement above that
could help many members here, regardless of the goals, aspirations, and AAS views
(grow lean or wet). The diet has a base squarely around vegetables in BOTH PHASES.
They are never removed. There are two reasons why. 1) The vegetables (and fruits)
not only provide the majority of vitamins and minerals, but the all important
soluble and insoluble fiber contains bulk or a filling effect in the stomach. This
leads into number two. The satiety or fulness it provides prevents me from getting
fat too fast. The extra calories REQUIRED during the bulk phase are limited, and
controlled.
The subject of absorption and utilization of vitamins and minerals is where a lot
of my educational background is from. There are major differences in how a vitamins
or minerals (vit/min) are absorbed and utilized when it comes to the modes of
delivery. Pill/supplements vs whole food and nature. Due to tightly controlled
concentration levels, the body FIRST treats vits/min from (pills/supplements) in a
state of body protection (added stress) via immediate excretion methods. It is
called the pool effect. Just imagine a glass of water full to the top. You can try
to add water to the top of the glass and it will only flow over the side. The body
works in the same way. Any water based vitamin or mineral that is full will be
excreted IMMEDIATELY. Any amounts over the top of the glass is considered toxic to
the body. Whereas vit/min from whole foods are not only absorbed better (and
slower) but are immediately utilized for their intended purpose. The body is not
focused on additional steps of getting over-saturated levels down, but can now
focus these important co-factors directly related to growth, recovery and its
important antioxidant properties. Because of the stresses created by both training
and AAS use, I personally make sure they are in the blood stream at all times by
incorporating them into most meals.
So I have a challenge for my GH15ers. If you are not familiar with vegetables and
do not use them, then it is time. Here is what you do. Every time you head to you
local grocery store, take one new vegetable you have never cooked or heard about.
Bring it home and read about what vitamins and minerals that are specific to that
vegetable. Learn how to cook it. Every week bring a different color/textured
vegetable home. You will notice trends based on deep colors and kinds of leaves.
For example Kale vs spinach. Become familiar with as many as you can. So that each
meal over time gets a completely different vegetable. They are easy to prepare in
one day, a depending on storage, can be used for a week at a time.
If your goal is longevity in this sport, then these small steps taken now in both
nutrition and cardio can make a huge difference over time. They may not seem
important now, but when you finally realize how long it takes to build your perfect
physique you will then see the value in this...
DrX
you."
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� Reply #100 on: July 07, 2013, 03:48:19 PM �
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There is a ton of golden information in this thread. should be a Q and A with Dr.
X! Thank you Dr. X and all you fellas for the awesome questions
trenmafia
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� Reply #99 on: July 07, 2013, 02:56:07 PM �
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^^^Because most of them are dealers and they make a lot of money out of these
freaks...It is sad everything is controled of money..BTW great physique and
healthy!
Gatts
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� Reply #98 on: July 07, 2013, 10:46:18 AM �
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You look amazing bro!
This is the kind of physique that represents bodybuilding! Unfortunatly those sirs
behind ifbb decide to turn this art into a freak show :'(
Golden era: 70's until early 90's.

For me the peak were the late 80's!
Keep working hard bro!

Confucius
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� Reply #97 on: July 07, 2013, 10:33:02 AM �
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Excellent, bro! Great information here, not really imagine it would not have added
TREN this protocol.
"If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more,
you are a leader."
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� Reply #96 on: July 06, 2013, 01:05:02 AM �
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Thanks for the info man. I kinda figured you weren't the counting type
information
DrX
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� Reply #95 on: July 05, 2013, 11:40:03 PM �
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Thanks for sharing that diet info I was looking forward to hearing about that.
If I may ask how high do you cals get by the end of a gaining phase?
I don't count calories anymore, in either phase. It has more to do with portion
control and what I look like in the mirror. After all these years I know where to
push BF levels too, but no further.
I consume my base in the growth phase everyday. I will then add what ever I am in
the mood for to each meal. My last meal about an hour before I go to bed is
actually mostly sugar and fat based. Ice cream, all natural peanut butter, nuts,
home made brownies and other sugary snacks that I feel like eating. It could even
be a 1000Kcal hamburger and fires. But I will say this. I am VERY VERY conscious of
the ingredients in all of my "junk" meals. There are items I do feel are very
detrimental to health. So I do stay away from MOST breads, especially the highly
processed packaged snack like breads, chips (Doritos etc), and most processed meal
or snack items that contain heavy amounts of sodium and hydrogenated fats.
Depending on your state, these items ingredients especially hydrogenated fats may
be mandated and allowed a bit different.
you."
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� Reply #94 on: July 04, 2013, 11:40:03 PM �
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Quote from: mazrim on July 04, 2013, 09:02:22 PM
How long have you been using the gh?
A little under 3 years. Have never had the experience of using brand name GH. So I
cannot comment on the differences. It has always been generic.
you."
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� Reply #93 on: July 04, 2013, 09:02:22 PM �
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How long have you been using the gh?
DrX
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� Reply #92 on: July 04, 2013, 01:23:22 PM �
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Quote from: Lifter on July 04, 2013, 12:10:34 AM
Thank you DrX very much for detailed answer.
One more question for you if you dont mind, you have mentioned that you keep
masteron in for your gaining/cutting phases but you add nolvadex when cutting. Do
you find it usefull for keeping you dry or just as gyno prevention?
Great question. Nolvadex is PART of the equation that keeps me dry, and yes it also
aids in gyno protection. The lowing of body fat combined with cardio, slow removal
of carbs also have a large diuresis influence on water retention.
I will refer to the pictures as your final answer!!!!!!!!!
Remember a few important points. I am NOT on any cutting low water retention AAS,
like winny, tren, anavar, tbol, or primo. Nor did I use any diuretics. Just limited
water intake the prior day to the pictures. I was on test, deca, AND adrol, with 4
weeks out from where I wanted to be (I have been harder at that point).
I see many inexperienced members with no history using compounds like nolvadex
incorrectly giving advice on why or why not to use. They use the same bro-science
statements repeated over and over again.
you."
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� Reply #91 on: July 04, 2013, 12:10:34 AM �
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Thank you DrX very much for detailed answer.
One more question for you if you dont mind, you have mentioned that you keep
masteron in for your gaining/cutting phases but you add nolvadex when cutting. Do
you find it usefull for keeping you dry or just as gyno prevention?
Dig93
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� Reply #90 on: July 03, 2013, 12:41:00 AM �
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holy dryness batman!!
ryanbCXG
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� Reply #89 on: July 02, 2013, 11:19:24 PM �
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Thanks for sharing that diet info I was looking forward to hearing about that.
If I may ask how high do you cals get by the end of a gaining phase?
information
DrX
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� Reply #88 on: July 02, 2013, 11:05:02 PM �
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Quote from: Lifter on June 30, 2013, 02:05:32 PM
Very informative posts in this thread, thank you Drx.

Can you please specify little bit more on your carb/fat approach , what are your
protein/fat/carb ratios , if you time your carbs around workout/cardio time. Is
your fat intake higher only on cut or also in off season when are more wetter
compund introduced ?
I'm glad to see interest in the diet side of the equation. Unfortunately, we have
been conditioned, bodybuilding is all drugs. That statement is VERY true especially
in terms of today's competitive bodybuilder. GH and Insulin have changed the game
unfathomed by bodybuilders 10-15 years ago. But for me personally based on genetics
and the AAS/GH protocol that I use, the equation changes dramatically. I can
honestly tell you that all 4 critical components are EQUAL to each other to obtain
this look. AAS/GH=Diet=Cardio=Weight training. If one of these components are not
dialed in, I do not progress. Here is the base eaten everyday for cutting and
growth phase. Adjustments up or down are made depending on goals:
Coffee
Cardio (wait one hour to eat)
Oatmeal cooked (1/2cup dry)

3 whole eggs
1 cup mixed frozen fruit/berries
1 banana
1/2 Whey Isolate
1/2 cup fiber1 cereal
Baked Chicken Breast

1/2 cup rice
1 cup vegetables
one sweet potato
Baked Chicken breast

1/2 cup rice
1 cup vegetables
One sweet potato
Cup of high protein Greek Yogurt
Gym
(Fast for one hour)
Lean Ground Beef

1/2 cup white rice
one cup vegetables
One med baked potato
1/2 Cup Low fat cottage cheese
As time progresses in the diet phase (4 week periods), I will slowly remove carbs
from the base and add equal amounts of fats. So for example the fruit will slowly
be replaced by all natural peanut butter. The sweet potatoes and rice will get
replaced by oils, olive, macadamia, and walnut. I will also add in cheeses in the
form of Feta and mixed nuts. I think of the diet phase as a glider coming in for a
SOFT landing. Slow and easy with no dramatic changes to the decent. The calorie
intake will roughly be the same, but as I hit plateaus, I will remove portions to
reduce calories. During the last 6 weeks I will add a second secession of cardio
after weights.
Some may have noticed I do not add fish as a protein source. Why would that be?
Even our Mr Olympia Jay Cutler had his famous video at Costco loading up the
shopping cart with frozen Tilapia. Suddenly Tilapia was and is the hot bodybuilding
food. I will say fish is emphatically the healthiest of all the protein sources.
Some are extremely rich in omega 3 fatty acids. I do find it interesting that
farmed Tilapia contains relatively small amounts of beneficial omega-3 fatty acids,
where as salmon has more than 10 times the amount of tilapia.
But there is a reality to fish that I find only work for those on advanced
(insulin) cycles and is perfect for that level. You will only read this here. No
bullshit bro-science or misdirection. I for one find myself getting extremely
hungry on fish. Not only does it not satisfy me, but I find myself extremely flat
and weaker. Depending on your genetics and healthy blood values, I would recommend
lean beef EVERYDAY over fish ESPECIALLY post workout. Saturated fats added in
during the cutting phase is the other key to maintaining size and strength.
Remember though there are plenty good oils in this diet, it is high in fiber,
contains low calorie high vitamin/mineral rich foods. I do not believe in
supplements, with the one exception of the 1/2 scoop of whey isolate in the oatmeal
for breakfast.
you."
kingfisher
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� Reply #87 on: July 01, 2013, 08:27:47 PM �
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sick physique
"Eat like a starving viking, train like a spartan and sleep like a baby"
Reminiscence
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� Reply #86 on: July 01, 2013, 01:55:42 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: joeyflex69 on June 26, 2013, 04:36:49 PM
Some Stats:Age 41, Weight on the day of the photos 165lbs. Height 5.7 and a half.
Waist 28in.
I'll start with my view on optimal training. It is closer to what we see in the
80's. Slightly higher volume and training days then today recommendations. I will
spend no more then 50mins to 1hr and 15min, depending on which body parts I train.
I personally do NOT believe in low volume or Dorian Yates style of training with
many days off. Some gifted individuals gain on this style, but it DID not work for
me. So here is my breakdown of body parts.
6 days a week of weights, and 6 days a week of cardio. If dieting, time of cardio
goes up. Base is always 30 mins first thing in the morning on an empty stomach.
Weight training usually in the late afternoon.
Mon: Am-Cardio.... PM Hams/Upper back

Tue: Am-Cardio..... PM Chest/Abs
Wed: Am-Cardio..... PM Shoulders/Traps
Thu: Am Cardio....... PM Mid Back/Calves
Fri: Am Cardio.......... PM Arms/abs
Sat: Am Cardio
Sun Quads/calves
Four sets per exercise, rep range depends on body parts. Quads are 40-12 reps,
upper body 20-8 reps. Four to five different exercises per part. Example most would
be interested in is chest:
1) 15% incline barbells press 4 sets
2) 40% incline Barbell press 4 sets
3) 15% incline dumbell flys 4 sets
4) Dips 4 sets
Now one major keys I have learned over the years is the style of execution of the
reps. I believe in the piston style for everything. Just imagine a car piston as it
moves. IT NEVER STOPS in motion. There is no rest at the top or bottom of the
stroke, EVER. Speed is moderate, little rest time between me and my training
partner. The piston style for chest gets some time to get use to, but once you get
it, it like someone taking a hot iron over the chest. This style will force you to
lighten the weight and shoot for straight reps to FAILURE on each set. Remember no
resting at the top!!!
Notice how he splits up cardio and weights, this is the correct way
The piston way is exactly the way i train, I make each rep like pumping up a bike
tire with a manunal pump, think about the kinda pump you get pumping up a tire.
controll the negitive.
Thanks Joe!! Cardio is such an important component to not only health, but there
are other key benefits to growth and development of body, especially if your not in
the genetically blessed camp. One of your best investments would be a cardio
machine at home. You can get a used cheap machine on Craigs or penny saver and
knock it out at home. Due to my obligations, I work 7 days a week, and getting to
the gym twice a day is an absolute waste of time.
My cardio is done first thing in the morning on an empty stomach for about 30mins.
I walk at a pace of 3.8-4.0 mph at an angle of 3. Nothing to intense or demanding.
I will have a cup of coffee 20mins before. No other stimulant or fat burner would
be necessary. Whether I am in the growth or cutting stage it MUST be done. Why?
First, the role it plays with HDL cholesterol. This is considered the good
cholesterol; it helps prevent LDL cholesterol from clogging your arteries, which
increases your risk of heart attack and stroke. This also encourages increased HDL
and reduced LDL ratio that can improve quality of life.
Second, the role of cardio and the subsequent change in insulin sensitivity.
Increased insulin sensitivity results in greater levels of carbohydrates and amino
acids taken up into the muscle. Your body works much more efficient. Increased
insulin sensitivity in the muscle will result in greater levels of carbohydrates
and amino acids being taken up into the muscle, thus leading to greater growth and
muscle fullness.
Third, cardio opens capillaries and increases blood flow. Cardio increases the
number of capillaries (small blood vessels) that network throughout the muscles.
These capillaries bring various nutrients and HORMONES to the muscle. Therefore the
more capillaries you obtain, the more nutrients and HORMONES that can be brought to
a recovering muscle. This also ties in to the style of weight training I utilize.
Piston style with minimal rest. Having well developed cardiovascular capacity will
mean you recover faster between sets. Recovering faster between sets lead to an
increased total workload during your workout as you will be able to perform more
reps with any given weight on subsequent sets.
If this post doesn't motivate anyone else to do cardio, I don't know what will!
Amazing post Dr. X...will definitely incorporate cardio daily, rather than simply
doing it on a "cut". Kind of scared to even see my lipid profile (using very
minimal dosages), but will definitely be checking it out soon due to your
thoroughness & professionalism in the whole matter.
[How To] Enhancing Your GH15 Browsing Experience:

My Cheap Acne Solution (Home Remedy): http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?
topic=28641
KD35
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� Reply #85 on: July 01, 2013, 08:11:19 AM �
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Your very welcome. My wife is actually due to have the baby today, so I will get to
your really important question if time permits... (breathing nervously)
Good luck! My wife went over 6 days and got induced. Had our boy on the 21st of
June.
k7x
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� Reply #84 on: July 01, 2013, 05:52:25 AM �
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Very impressive physique man, keep up the good work. Good luck with the baby.
DrX
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� Reply #83 on: June 30, 2013, 06:37:37 PM �
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Your very welcome. My wife is actually due to have the baby today, so I will get to
your really important question if time permits... (breathing nervously)
you."
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� Reply #82 on: June 30, 2013, 02:42:57 PM �
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Very informative and great posts
information
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� Reply #81 on: June 30, 2013, 02:05:32 PM �
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DrX
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� Reply #80 on: June 30, 2013, 01:41:29 PM �
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I will keep my BF range between approximately 5 to 10%. No more then 10% or the
side effects will start to pile on.... Bouncing back and forth. Here is a pic at
the starting day of the last cutting phase...
* GH15Offseasonsmall.jpg (9.84 kB, 171x500 - viewed 492 times.)

you."
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� Reply #79 on: June 30, 2013, 01:33:35 PM �
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What I am about to write may challenge beliefs in the additional compounds used in
the day to day activities related to fat loss. These items have been around for
many years but, as a group we seem to have a follow the herd mentality, rather then
test and objectify the end results.
Before I begin I must reiterate my own personal goals. I do not body build to make
money or to provide income, nor am I at this time interested in competing at the
highest levels. The goal is to build the best 70's style body I can within reason,
that I can maintain for another 10-15 years. So my protocols are also conservative
when it comes to GH use, which ultimately changes end results especially when it
comes to fat loss. What I say below is not necessarily applicable for those who
aggressively use GH and insulin FOR TODAY'S STANDARDS.
My intake of generic 3-4iu day, is low by today's standards (not the 70's and
early 80's). There are varying assumptions of where GH needs to be for maximal fat
loss. Some say at least 5-7iu a day while others say don't bother if you plan on
using under 10iu day. The benefits of 3-4iu a day is directly correlated to how
much more efficient AAS becomes for me. I get to use more AAS with less
complications. There may be some or little fat loss at that low dose of GH, but
most of the true loss occurs solely due to calorie restriction and cardio.The old
fashion way....
All AAS do increase metabolic rates, but each one has a unique dose dependent
amount for maximal rates. This is why you get to eat more when your on. The myth of
some being better fat burners then others has never been experienced personally by
me. Especially when your dialed in on all the variables. However, there are special
AAS that I feel are better lean tissue preservers then others as I will explain
below.
In my cutting phase two of the most important AAS that I felt helped maintain lean
tissue and strength in the low calorie, high stress (cardio) environment were Test
and Adrol. So my AAS base in this environment is test, both long and short esters,
along with deca, some primo, eq, mast and orals cycled in Dbol/Anavar/Adrol. I am
not afraid to push the envelope with more orals in this stage. I will go into
detail on the diet soon.
As you have read, fat loss has always been my biggest hurdle in bodybuilding.
Dieting correctly has had its many learning curves. This includes what compounds
truly aid in the process, how to set up the correct diet, adjust the diet over time
(the key), and the required cardio to enhance fat loss, while maintaining lean
tissue at the same time. On my last cutting phase, I kept all my strength from the
beginning weight in the high 180's down to the 160's. Every lift including legs
were only a few reps away from my strongest heaviest wettest weight. All this was
done with no T3, stimulants (ephedrine, clen), or any other compound that
hypothetically raises metabolism (tren). I have used T3, clen, ephedrine, and tren
many, many times. My objective end result: The very small TEMPORARY lift in energy
expenditure was not worth the stress placed on the heart, circulatory, nervous
tissue and brain. My body just felt like death on these compounds. My mind and
emotions were also never in check and consistent. They actually compounded the
suffering for me, rather then made it easier. Like I have said before I look at
bodybuilding as a life long journey. So for me personally, the question is the risk
to reward on every compound I add to the equation. Because the metabolic lift is so
very marginal on any stimulant, but their effects on the heart and circulatory
system is so profound (this is never talked about), I will put in the extra effort
in on diet and cardio to offset the risk. It is just that simple....
Another important reason I stay away from stimulants and T3 has to do with one of
the MOST CRITICAL phases in the process of THICKENING and growth of lean tissue.
The REBOUND after the cutting phase. The lower you take body fat during the cutting
phase (<6%) the better the ratio of lean tissue to fat in the growth phase. BUT if
one has been taking T3, and stimulants aggressively during the cutting phase what
happens when you need the extremely sensitive T3 feedback loop to be at its most
efficient during the growth phase. UNLESS you are constantly on them, you have now
changed the muscle/fat ratio. Exactly when you need T3 to be the most efficient,
your natural levels are now at it's lowest levels. You are back to square one!!!!!
Sometimes as bodybuilders we get into a routine without thinking about the

consequences. Take the bodybuilders you see everyday with their weight belts and
straps. Regardless of the lift, whether its seated dumbbell curls, bench press,
squats, even abs the belt is tightened to the extreme using that last open
whole..... Does an excessively tight belt (stimulants) really help with seated
dumbbell curls? Or has it become an emotional crutch over time? Just something to
think about...
One of the best new tools I incorporated into this last diet phase was the
introduction of TNE/Adrol/Dbol injectable blend along with orals. It kept me
INCREDIBLY full and strong. I actually used it immediately post cardio in the
morning mixed with my other AAS in one shot. It was not taken pre-workout. Why? I
always fast for an hr after the morning cardio secession, and the first meal has
the highest carb intake for the day. This blend helped lock glycogen and glucose
back into the nervous system and legs post cardio. It really helped alleviate the
sluggishness you feel when your on the high cardio lowed carb environment (carbs
are slowly tapered down over time).
Now to the compounds I used in the growth phase. This last phase included a low
test approach (200mg week) with a solid base of deca, eq, primo, mast, orals dbol,
adrol and generic gh(3-4iuday) . The diet had a solid CLEAN base that was the
foundation for the cutting phase. There was the addition of junk food and other
highly calorie dense foods to certain days AND daily meals (especially after
training quads). I have said this from day one. I personally do not and cannot grow
lean. You have to go back to the 70's to the early 90's where the bodybuilder
disappeared for half a year. There was no internet or updated pics week to week or
month to month. They just quietly vanished. We had to wait to see them on
magazines, but only during and right after competitions. If you saw any of your
favorite bodybuilders in the off-season, they were a BLOATED MESS!!!! They were in
full unshaven growth mode with NO APOLOGIES!!!!! Welcoming the estrogen related
water and fat depositions was one of the keys to building THICKNESS!!
Unlike today, estrogen was not feared but embraced!!!!
The truth was the only ones who utilized the "grow lean" methods back then were the
ones who already had built a solid base using the methods above and were now only
looking to polish up a few body parts.
DrX
you."
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� Reply #78 on: June 28, 2013, 01:09:52 PM �
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dig it up.....
Height Weight(lbs)
5'5" 165-180
5'6" 172-187
5'7" 179-194
5'8" 186-201
5'9" 193-208
5'10" 200-215
5'11" 207-222
6'0" 214-229
6'1" 221-236
Thanks Lean!!
The key to this chart is BF. If you are down to 4-5% and are within these numbers
you will have a fantastically thick look. Only at 4-5% BF will you really get to
see how much lean tissue you have developed. Most stop at 7-8% and assume there is
very little difference between the two numbers. You will drop weight as you begin
to get down under 7%. This is where the suffering really happens.
The absolute joy for me is at 165lbs at 5'7" if still have room to grow. I have not
quite pushed the envelope yet, so I do have work to do.
you."
Galaxy
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� Reply #77 on: June 28, 2013, 12:13:59 AM �
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Yeah all the classic bodybuilders were very light ! Crazy how much insulin makes
people weigh compare to what they look like !
I'm just naturally heavy so it feels like the weights are very light, but I carry
much more fat and water which makes a shit ton of difference as what replaces it is
pure muscle!
I really look forward to getting completely shredded when I get on hormones to

really see how much I weigh at 5%
Have to be satisfied with 9-10% for now as a natural.
Lean82
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� Reply #76 on: June 28, 2013, 12:05:12 AM �
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ryanbCXG
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� Reply #75 on: June 28, 2013, 12:00:27 AM �
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At 6ft 225 at 5% would look damn good I'd be happy with that I think
information
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� Reply #74 on: June 27, 2013, 11:48:15 PM �
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dig it up.....
Height Weight(lbs)
5'5" 165-180
5'6" 172-187
5'7" 179-194
5'8" 186-201
5'9" 193-208
5'10" 200-215
5'11" 207-222
6'0" 214-229
6'1" 221-236
Aww I was just cominh in here to copy that from your other post haha!
Thanks for asking him about it Lean!
It sounds a bit small though( just in my head) but I'm sure 257 6% 6,4 is much
larger than what I think it is. 257 at 4% is thst possible according to that? Cause
that would be very big !
Lean82
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� Reply #73 on: June 27, 2013, 10:48:06 PM �
ReplyQuote
dig it up.....
Height Weight(lbs)
5'5" 165-180
5'6" 172-187
5'7" 179-194
5'8" 186-201
5'9" 193-208
5'10" 200-215
5'11" 207-222
6'0" 214-229
6'1" 221-236
joeyflex69
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� Reply #72 on: June 27, 2013, 06:44:09 PM �
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Waist 28in.

Sat: Am Cardio
Sun Quads/calves
4) Dips 4 sets
muscle fullness.
If you have any problem with cholestrol PM me, I'll tell you what to do.
Alot of bodybuilders die from heart problems, increased left ventricle size,
arthroscrolis ect...
Testosterone usually fucks up your cholestrol- Raises LDL's and lowers HDL's a few
years ago mine was 17 40-60 is normal.
Statin drugs fuck with you mucles, i stopped eating red meat and egg yolks for a
while.
To reduce cholestrol LDl's and total, increase Hdl's and fix the ratio on your
lipid pannel do the following.
Eat soluable fiber with each fatty meal

Limit red meat to once a week
take extra b12
eat more fish
Take omega 3-6-9
take raw olive oil daily 1-2 spoons
eat 1 bowel of oatmeal daily
take out egg yolks,
if all else fails buy red yeast rice extract (watch your kidneys, do not take if
you have any kidney problems, its a natural statin) some get muscle pain.
Do more cardio
This will work

Champions do what competitors
don't think peope really realize how much hormones it takes to mutate your body
and to sustain that body. Sure, if you want the lean swimmer's look than a gram
total might get the job done. But even look at our member matty who is a physique
competitor. He's running a pretty decent amount of AAS, and he does physique.
Obviously he is not abusing gh/slin, but to the link you posted above, take note
that 225lb EXCELLENT bodybuilder/Reardon client, Esquire, is running close to
5grams and is sitting at 225lbs. THAT is what it takes, and people should be aware
of this. I know that for a LONG time I wasn't. I was wondering why I was taking
600mg of test and eating and training like Ronnie Coleman, but didn't look like him
lol.
Lean or anyone from the community, would you have the chart GH15 posted a few years
ago for the maximum levels of weight a bodybuilder can obtain (based on height)
using AAS only. It was also one of the single most important truthful facts
everyone needs to see, especially if one is to be objective with goals using
maximum amounts of AAS only.
Was it a picture file? Or simply text? I could do some querying and attempt to find
it.

topic=28641
CubsGuy17
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� Reply #70 on: June 27, 2013, 05:27:10 PM �
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my jaw dropped a little. damn.
thewrongadvices
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� Reply #69 on: June 27, 2013, 02:36:45 PM �
ReplyQuote
Waist 28in.

Sat: Am Cardio
Sun Quads/calves
4) Dips 4 sets
muscle fullness.
Such a great post, and one which many bodybuilders would do well to read a few
times.
DrX
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� Reply #68 on: June 27, 2013, 01:59:04 PM �
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Waist 28in.

Sat: Am Cardio
Sun Quads/calves
4) Dips 4 sets
acids taken up into the muscle. Your body just works much more efficient. This
results in a greater percentage of carbohydrates and amino acids into the muscle
cells leading to greater growth, recuperation and muscle fullness.

you."
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� Reply #67 on: June 26, 2013, 04:36:49 PM �
ReplyQuote
Waist 28in.

Sat: Am Cardio
Sun Quads/calves
4) Dips 4 sets
joeyflex69
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� Reply #66 on: June 26, 2013, 04:33:48 PM �
ReplyQuote
fuckin awesome symmatry and muscle maturity, awesome awesome physique, this is the
look everyone should go for. hard vascular dry skin, full head of hair! lol.
Always a pleasure Dr. X,
Joe
DrX
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� Reply #65 on: June 26, 2013, 01:04:26 PM �
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dig it up.....
you."
worth1
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� Reply #64 on: June 25, 2013, 09:32:23 PM �
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Drx, you look great. Amazing job!
iasb
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� Reply #63 on: June 25, 2013, 04:14:42 PM �
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Galaxy
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� Reply #62 on: June 25, 2013, 02:44:14 PM �
ReplyQuote
^^^Great post and excellent point DrX.
I don't think peope really realize how much hormones it takes to mutate your body
lol.
ago for the maximum levels of weight a bodybuilders can obtain (based on height)
I've seen that too! But I don't have it saved!
I wonder about that as well!
DrX
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� Reply #61 on: June 25, 2013, 01:30:14 PM �
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lol.
ago for the maximum levels of weight a bodybuilder can obtain (based on height)
you."
Lean82
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� Reply #60 on: June 25, 2013, 12:06:09 AM �
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lol.
DrX
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� Reply #59 on: June 24, 2013, 10:28:21 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: BigDaddyBone on June 24, 2013, 03:22:03 AM
Always been a big fan, I'm most impressed w the look/thickness you bring at 165
lbs. You easily look 20 lbs heavier.
Could you go into more detail w your diet? Macros, meals you eat, etc. I am
really starting from square one myself, minimal gear and trying to bring changes
about through manipulating my diet. So any information you could provide Would be
greatly appreciated. :)
Thank you!! I am slowly working on getting my diet breakdown to the community. Time
is a bit limited right now. But as to the weight, today's generation only see and
relatively compare bodybuilders based on weight. Aggressive insulin use, the most
powerful storage hormone has changed our world. There was a time not to long age
where Mr Olympia was in the 180lb range.
I have posted these before, and the height of the bodybuilders may be a bit
shorter, but you get to see quality vs quantity..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K0XUGO9lJ3Q
The winner of this years 2013 IFBB European Men's Bodybuilding Championships this
year was only 165Lbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqykOeMGfFM
I did want to add one important truth related to what you mentioned about minimal
gear use. Yes using to much to soon or too much for the lean tissue you have
developed may be detrimental. But the reality is, depending on genetics and time, X
amounts of gear can only sustain Y amount of lean tissue.
To be perfectly clear, building a physique even at a lower body weights still

requires us to be swimming in AAS. GH can be low (2-4iu day) , but not the AAS.
This great recent thread answers all the questions as to where you should be!!!
you."
DrX
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� Reply #58 on: June 24, 2013, 01:33:31 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: BigDaddyBone on June 24, 2013, 03:22:03 AM
Thank you!! I am slowly working on getting my diet breakdown to the community. Time
is a bit limited right now. But as to the weight, today's generation only see and
relatively compare bodybuilders based on weight. Aggressive insulin use, the most
powerful storage hormone has changed our world. There was a time not to long age
where Mr Olympia was in the 180lb range.
I have posted these before, and the height of the bodybuilders may be a bit
shorter, but you get to see quality vs quantity..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=K0XUGO9lJ3Q
The winner of this years 2013 IFBB European Men's Bodybuilding Championships this
year was only 165Lbs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqykOeMGfFM

you."
BigDaddyBone
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Trying to get that last little bit off!!

� Reply #57 on: June 24, 2013, 03:22:03 AM �
ReplyQuote
TEAM MADG
DrX
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� Reply #56 on: June 24, 2013, 12:50:13 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: psypower on June 20, 2013, 10:59:32 AM
less work on lower pecs.. more work on upper pecs.. chest shaping out like boobs
because your lower pecs are over developed.. so imo do incline movements only for
all your chest training. please dont attack my opinion, im just trying to help
If one posts pictures and responses, there will be difference of opinion and ideas.
I think that is a great thing.
This is bodybuilding, the critique of the developing human body. My goal from day
one was to actually never have lower droopy pecs. That is why I never isolated
lower pecs in any exercise, especially decline presses....
you."
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� Reply #55 on: June 22, 2013, 02:44:42 AM �
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you."
draaz
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� Reply #54 on: June 22, 2013, 02:09:42 AM �
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ryanbCXG
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� Reply #53 on: June 21, 2013, 10:31:02 PM �
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Well it really shows. Again great physique
information
squirms
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� Reply #52 on: June 21, 2013, 09:37:21 PM �
ReplyQuote
Excellent build.
I have always enjoyed DrX's post, always enjoyed reading his take on things and his
approach to bodybuilding and non-bodybuilding matters
DrX
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� Reply #51 on: June 21, 2013, 09:25:46 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: ryanbCXG on June 21, 2013, 03:55:21 PM
How long have you been training? And using AAS?
Absolutely fantastic look. And damn you and your waist genetics
Training solid since the age of 16. The funny thing is never judge a book by the
cover. I have mentioned this before, but back in my teen years I was extremely
ashamed of my body. I would never go out in public without a shirt on. I was very
athletic and great in sports, but had a skinny/fat body with fat distributed in all
the wrong places. Had a severe case of gynocomastia to boot too. I had man boobs...
My first day in high school was a nightmare. I remember promising myself on that
first day that my next 20yr high school reunion, no one would recognize me. This is
where my passion for bodybuilding began.
I can honestly say I have some of the worse set of genetics for this sport. BUT,
like I have learned in life, knowledge, dedication, patience and DISCIPLINE, are
the keys. Nothing comes overnight....
you."
ryanbCXG
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� Reply #50 on: June 21, 2013, 03:55:21 PM �
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How long have you been training? And using AAS?
Absolutely fantastic look. And damn you and your waist genetics
information
DrX
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� Reply #49 on: June 21, 2013, 01:37:09 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: vansville2010 on June 21, 2013, 03:35:22 AM
wondering what you credit small waist too,,and for rear delts do you train them
controlled or more explosive to push blood into them?
To be honest, the waist has nothing more to do with then small structured genetics.
I am not built to carry tons of weight, nor am I extremely strong. I do abs twice a
week, but there again, the waist will remain tight and small. At my wettest weight
during growth phases it will get to 31".
You can use the example of dogs in the animal kingdom. Comparing the structure of a
chiwawa, to a greyhound to a bull dog. Here in So California we have a large Samoan
population. We have guys at my gym who naturally move weight that would break most
enhanced bodybuilders. It is a sight to see... One Samoan friend who can use 110lb
dumbbells for bent over concentration curls off the floor with EASE... My point is
they are built to move weight, but will never have 28' waist.
For shoulders the routine consists of 3-4 sets of each: Very strict side laterals,
dumbbell press, cybex press, a extremely controlled behind the neck barbell press,
bent over dumbbell rear delt raises, and one of the rear delt machines. Behind the
neck is not something I would recommend for everyone. It really requires the ego
out of the equation because of the potential damage it can do. So two exercises
dedicated to real delts.
you."
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� Reply #48 on: June 21, 2013, 03:35:22 AM �
ReplyQuote
wondering what you credit small waist too,,and for rear delts do you train them
controlled or more explosive to push blood into them?
DrX
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� Reply #47 on: June 21, 2013, 01:33:58 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: thewrongadvices on June 20, 2013, 07:13:06 PM
DrX, do you use gh or just aas?
I do use GH. Absolute necessity for me. As GH15 says "always in the blood". I
however only use 3-4iu a day of generic GH. One shot right after training. That is
the reason you see all the cardio (which I think is extremely beneficial for me).
you."
DrX
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� Reply #46 on: June 21, 2013, 01:30:43 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: PvtTucker on June 20, 2013, 03:04:36 AM
Great physique drx. Very impressive! I too aspire to build a 70's body. Their
chests were all identical and amazing! Do you have any other pics that are more
straight on? I like the full back shot, but lets see a full front! No homo, haha
Just a few more. Most were with my wife. This one I was relaxed and flat like a
tire. I did not get the opportunity to fill out that day. But it may give a better
front shot..
you."
psypower
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� Reply #45 on: June 20, 2013, 09:34:02 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Jake1902 on June 20, 2013, 05:55:04 PM
Very interesting DrX, thanks for posting. The piston style pressing is something I
try to do. Never quite understood why so many people rest so long at the top of a
barbell press, probably means they are lifting too heavy as you say.
If any of the GH15 community is in the Southern California area and would like to
train, please feel free to ask..... There is so much more to training chest, such
as elbow positioning, and scapula retraction to prevent shoulders from taking over.
To train chest you have to take the ego out of the equation. I have a rule when it
comes to weight. If I tell you to stop at any point in the rep, you should be able
to stop the bar and be able to control it.....
exactly what i do, keep elbows pointing out, and keep my scapula retracted, feels
so much more healthier for shoulders, same with flyes i keep my scapula retracted,
i feel the contraction in my pecs so much better now and dont get any shoulder
discomfort,
cant believe your 41! you look absolutely fantastic man!
Thanks... Keeping the elbows out is the key. If you carefully watch people bench
pressing, as the weight goes up the elbows always begin to point down toward the
hips. This creates a spring or leverage effect that actually diminish further chest
development. This is the main reason I never use the smith machine or hammer
strength machines. They force you elbows down and you never get that natural S
movement the body wants to follow.
you can get away with training chest once a month imo.. your shoulders and arms
need to catch up..and when you do train chest.. just do only one movement of
incline angle
DISCLAIMER: Writings past, present or future by psypower are fictional contrivances
extracted from an over active imagination.
DrX
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� Reply #44 on: June 20, 2013, 08:58:24 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Jake1902 on June 20, 2013, 05:55:04 PM
discomfort,
Thanks... Keeping the elbows out is the key. If you carefully watch people bench
pressing, as the weight goes up the elbows always begin to point down toward the
hips. This creates a spring or leverage effect that actually diminish further chest
development. This is the main reason I never use the smith machine or hammer
strength machines. They force you elbows down and you never get that natural S
movement the body wants to follow.
you."
thewrongadvices
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� Reply #43 on: June 20, 2013, 07:13:06 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX, do you use gh or just aas?
Jake1902
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� Reply #42 on: June 20, 2013, 05:55:04 PM �
ReplyQuote
discomfort,

I train alone, so it kind of forces me to use a weight I can control, even when
coming to the point of failing. The lighter weight definately allows me to use
better form.
DrX
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� Reply #40 on: June 20, 2013, 04:05:08 PM �
ReplyQuote
you."
thewrongadvices
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� Reply #39 on: June 20, 2013, 02:45:19 PM �
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h2s
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� Reply #38 on: June 20, 2013, 02:38:23 PM �
ReplyQuote
Very nice set up. I like your approach. Now to get to the gym tonight and make
myself work like a piston.
DrX
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� Reply #37 on: June 20, 2013, 02:01:18 PM �
ReplyQuote
Waist 28in.
Mon: Am-Cardio.... PM Hams/Calves

Wed: Am-Cardio.....PM Shoulders/Traps
Thu: Am Cardio.......PM Back/Calves
Fri: Am Cardio.........PM Arms/abs
Sat: Am Cardio
Sun .....................PM Quads
4) Dips 4 sets
you."
Bigsam
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� Reply #36 on: June 20, 2013, 01:38:02 PM �
ReplyQuote
you look great brother! whats your weight and height?
Reminiscence
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� Reply #35 on: June 20, 2013, 12:53:05 PM �
ReplyQuote
Holy hell, looking amazing DrX!
Dry as hell & that chest is just slabbed with muscle.


topic=28641
psypower
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� Reply #34 on: June 20, 2013, 10:59:32 AM �
ReplyQuote
less work on lower pecs.. more work on upper pecs.. chest shaping out like boobs
because your lower pecs are over developed.. so imo do incline movements only for
all your chest training. please dont attack my opinion, im just trying to help
DISCLAIMER: Writings past, present or future by psypower are fictional contrivances
extracted from an over active imagination.
phil mcgroin
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� Reply #33 on: June 20, 2013, 10:49:36 AM �
ReplyQuote
Very nice build great job on the diet.
sharpiedj
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� Reply #32 on: June 20, 2013, 09:38:58 AM �
ReplyQuote
Physique is pure quality
Go hard or go home!
Nobel252
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� Reply #31 on: June 20, 2013, 07:26:23 AM �
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Perfect physique in my books
BigLebowski
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� Reply #30 on: June 20, 2013, 07:26:07 AM �
ReplyQuote
Subbed for more info. Insanely Impressive
All comments and info posted by BigLebowski are for entertainment purposes only and
is made up. BigLebowski is a fictional character and wishes no harm to anyone or
anything nor endorses it.
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� Reply #29 on: June 20, 2013, 04:09:47 AM �
ReplyQuote
you look incredible. and surprised to see the compounds you used.
"in order to get where you have never been, you must do what you have never done"
vansville2010
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� Reply #28 on: June 20, 2013, 03:04:55 AM �
ReplyQuote
great pics,,would love to hear any info you'd share about diet to get that shredded
and would be interested in seeing pics from the front one day that show pecs,,they
look huge from the side in the pics!
PvtTucker
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� Reply #27 on: June 20, 2013, 03:04:36 AM �
ReplyQuote
Great physique drx. Very impressive! I too aspire to build a 70's body. Their
chests were all identical and amazing! Do you have any other pics that are more
straight on? I like the full back shot, but lets see a full front! No homo, haha
Check out my log: http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=30881.0
KD35
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� Reply #26 on: June 20, 2013, 03:02:09 AM �
ReplyQuote
Looking fuckin amazing.
Good luck with the baby too my man, my wife is currently 4 days past due, and is
getting induced tomorrow.
DrX
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� Reply #25 on: June 20, 2013, 02:44:33 AM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: sunkus4444 on June 19, 2013, 07:21:48 PM
Quote from: B.Belt on June 19, 2013, 04:39:59 PM
You look great man. Do you mind outlining your hormones, stats and diet? Also
training routine. Thanks.
Thanks for the kind compliments gentleman!!
I would be happy to outline my whole routine, diet, aas in detail when time frees
up a bit. Most of my philosophies are in the answers I have give to members asking
questions. But to quickly answer a few unknowns. I can quickly tell you what is not
used in this last phase. Have never used slin, seo or done spot injections. Chest
is part of the rotation, but I prefer long acting compounds. Tren was not used for
the last growth or cutting phase. I did try Tren E for a few weeks but it just
complicated and created to much strain on the body. I cut it quickly, and went back
to my base of deca, test cyp and mast, ADrol/Dbol combinations all the way until
the photos...
I always liked that 70s dry and full deca look !!!!
Btw in my avi i also dieted down with deca in to my comp !
Yes there seems to be a great deal of confusion with newer members of how to use
these key basic compounds along with mast and nolvadex. The number two question you
see, is members asking if certain pics of a vascular hard physique is solely due to
tren. Seems to be an overwhelming assumptions tren is the only AAS that can give
the look.

you."
chris250
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� Reply #24 on: June 19, 2013, 09:43:09 PM �
ReplyQuote
you look amazing...awesome job...
thewrongadvices
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� Reply #23 on: June 19, 2013, 09:29:23 PM �
ReplyQuote
the photos...
Just goes to show, basic gear such as deca goes a long way when things are done
properly. This is very encouraging to me as I currently do aas on a budget so
generally use long esters and compounds that give a good bang for buck.
sunkus4444
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� Reply #22 on: June 19, 2013, 07:21:48 PM �
ReplyQuote
the photos...

All The Best ....Your Friend sunkus4444
nahb
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� Reply #21 on: June 19, 2013, 06:54:42 PM �
ReplyQuote
Lookin good brother!! I only hope to look like that one day ;) prop
botchla
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parrin'

� Reply #20 on: June 19, 2013, 06:48:39 PM �
ReplyQuote
Man that chest is thicker then my glutes!!!
Looking sick man.
DrX
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� Reply #19 on: June 19, 2013, 06:41:21 PM �
ReplyQuote
up a bit. Most of my philosophies are in the answers I have given to members asking
questions. But to quickly answer a few unknowns. I can tell you what is not used in
this last phase. Have never used slin, seo or done spot injections. Chest is part
of the rotation, but I prefer long acting compounds. Tren was not used for the last
growth or cutting phase. I did try Tren E for a few weeks but it just complicated
and created to much strain on the body. I cut it quickly, and went back to my base
of deca, test cyp and mast, ADrol/Dbol combinations all the way until the photos...
you."
h2s
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Posts: 303

� Reply #18 on: June 19, 2013, 05:47:48 PM �
ReplyQuote
Just came back to this thread, that chest, seriously wtf you been doing with it my
man, it is poping.
kbordner
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� Reply #17 on: June 19, 2013, 05:28:16 PM �
ReplyQuote
Dr X Holy Shit......I am blown away. Pops Ken
Walk on home Boy
thewrongadvices
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� Reply #16 on: June 19, 2013, 05:26:29 PM �
ReplyQuote
I love the 70's look man, just the type of thing I am trying to build. Have you any
tips on your fave aas or any advices on how you built your chest? My back thickness
is good, my chest not bad but it needs work.
cook
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� Reply #15 on: June 19, 2013, 05:04:08 PM �
ReplyQuote
you look great DRX.Congrats on the upcoming birth.I trained with a son and then
with a grandson years later.It can be done just be sure and put in your time with
the kiddo and this will be a pleasure but if you do usually the wife will let you
slip out for an hour workout.Again congrats
h2s
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� Reply #14 on: June 19, 2013, 05:01:12 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX wow , your physique looks incredible ,all muscles are thick but your chest
Jeeeezus :o Great work on that 70s-80s look ....
Exactly my thoughts, excellent work brother and inspirational too.

sunkus4444
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Live Your Life


� Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 04:52:37 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX wow , your physique looks incredible ,all muscles are thick but your chest
Jeeeezus :o Great work on that 70s-80s look ....
All The Best ....Your Friend sunkus4444
salakazam
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� Reply #12 on: June 19, 2013, 04:43:47 PM �
ReplyQuote
Congratulations on the baby!!! And nothing others didn't notice yet, impressive
chest and shoulders.
Best.
great physique! cant believe the chest thickness! haha but whole body is very
proportionate at the same time, love the 70s/80s look, any tips???
B.Belt
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� Reply #10 on: June 19, 2013, 04:39:59 PM �
ReplyQuote
All comments and information posted by B.Belt are for entertainment purposes
only.Everything I post is made up. B.Belt is a fictional character and has no
problem toward any forum,handle,country,race or anybody else.I wish no harm on
anybody nor do I endorse it.
@turbo
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� Reply #9 on: June 19, 2013, 04:29:21 PM �
ReplyQuote
thats is one thick ass chest.
DrX
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� Reply #8 on: June 19, 2013, 04:03:27 PM �
ReplyQuote
Quote from: Rearden Metal on June 19, 2013, 03:51:42 PM
Congrats on the baby! You're gonna LOVE being a Daddy :)
You look fantastic. And you can still do it with a baby. Just have to plan better.
Thank you Rearden. Yes routines will have to change. To what degree is the big and
scary unknown. For all the Daddy's out there how did the first child effect your
training? And for how long before things returned to normal?
you."
warriorman15
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� Reply #7 on: June 19, 2013, 03:58:53 PM �
ReplyQuote
Goddamn...chest thickness like a motherfucker. Looking great dude.

DrX
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� Reply #6 on: June 19, 2013, 03:58:13 PM �
ReplyQuote
Thank you Perser, and jc634891!!
Lean, I believe the key to a that 70-80's look is a thick chest and back. It is
what differentiates the physique from the fitness look. If you look back in time
the guys in the 70-80's had the best chests. They were thick from top to bottom,
side to side. The question is why? Was it the simplicity in the equipment, training
style, or the EXECUTION of the lifts..... ;o)
you."
Rearden Metal
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� Reply #5 on: June 19, 2013, 03:51:42 PM �
ReplyQuote
Congrats on the baby! You're gonna LOVE being a Daddy :)
You look fantastic. And you can still do it with a baby. Just have to plan better.
check out my blog! http://metalgearclothing.com/blogs/metals-grind
Lean82
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� Reply #4 on: June 19, 2013, 02:19:45 PM �
ReplyQuote
Muscular, lean, AND dry...you got them nailed! Great job Doc.
And holy thick chest!! :o

jc634891
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� Reply #3 on: June 19, 2013, 02:18:16 PM �
ReplyQuote
DrX. Looking awesome brotha!!
Perser
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� Reply #2 on: June 19, 2013, 02:00:50 PM �
ReplyQuote
You look INCREDIBLE :o Congratulations building that amazing physique 99.9% of the
male human population would love to have.
Currently blasting:
Test E 2450mg/wk, Tren A 700mg/wk, Mast P 700mg/wk
Winstrol 100mg/ed, Androlic 50mg/ed, Aromasin 25mg/ed
DrX
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DrX:70-80's Protocol:TrenDiscussionPg25
� Reply #1 on: June 19, 2013, 01:58:53 PM �
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Here are some recent pictures to share with the GH15 community taken last weekend.
However, I was thrown a monkey wrench a bit early into my completion of the diet
phase. I was four weeks away from where I planned to take pictures where I hoped to
be a completely peeled, finished and polished, but had to stop early. My wife seems
she may go into early labor with our first baby. So my wife and I had to quickly
take some photos (some artsy) of each other to remember the past, before the baby
is born.
I have no clue how this beautiful new life will change our lifestyles, but it will
be for the best...
My ultimate goal as a bodybuilder is to build and refine a physique similar to the

look in the late 70's and early 80's. To me, it is a thick, dense, full appearance.
Because of the thickness from side to side accompanied with tight small abdominals
and waist, these past bodybuilders always appeared heavier in weight. For me it has
been a constant learning curve achieving this goal. There is so much conflicting,
sometime misleading information out there from the training styles, to the diet,
the AAS used, to the cardio, and most importantly the approach in the off-season
time of growth.
I don't think I ever do underhand grip, though - always monkey grip overhand. I'll
try that out for a few sets to see if it helps. I actually understood your
explanation of the training style perfectly too - I do that when I do one handed
cable rows. Thanks.

GH 15 DR X Importantreading

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http://www.gh15.org/forum/index.php?topic=18393.

Lastly, remember I mentioned the important function of skeletal muscle. It is more

I want to be the king

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

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on week 5 of 750deca/50dbol/50mg proviron, 150 test I pin it all e7d, life is

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Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

R.I.P Dani "Prowrestler"

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

R.I.P Dani "Prowrestler"

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:2014PhotosUpdatedPg21

aas... fda gh low dose insulin low dose

no 30-60 iu is low dose for a large fella

20-30 units is low dose but also MUST go with fda gh

* 75Olympia.jpg (1352.38 kB, 3897x1901 - viewed 229 times.)

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Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

all i have to say is thank you. so much.

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

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Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

R.I.P Dani "Prowrestler"

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

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Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:2014PhotosUpdatedPg21

no 30-60 iu is low dose for a large fella

20-30 units is low dose but also MUST go with fda gh

a member of the pride, may thy lion our my guide.

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

End results guys. End results.....

Personally, I do not really believe in periodization or it's selling points and

R.I.P Dani "Prowrestler"

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

Personally, I do not really believe in periodization or it's selling points and

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

End results guys. End results.....

Personally, I do not really believe in periodization or it's selling points and

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Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

R.I.P Dani "Prowrestler"

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

from your personal experience, pros and cons?

No mean-mugging in DrX's house...

R.I.P Dani "Prowrestler"

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

from your personal experience, pros and cons?

Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

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Re: DrX:70-80's Protocol:TheBeautifulBloatPg23

500mg organon sust

What dosage would you use on dbol

and test prop when of dbol what dosage