Kalki: Darshan with Kalki Bhagawan and Amma, Nemam

2nd of January 2004.

Question 1: I have lots of questions to ask, but I forget what to ask when I am in front of
you. Why?

Answer from Kalki Bhagawan:

This is because I never see you as separate from me. We all are one. You get intense pleasure when
you become one with me and thus experience and enjoy fully.

Question 2: Are you a god or not?

Answer from Kalki Bhagawan:

God can be understood in 3 ways:

1. Unmanifested form:
Electricity, for example, that has no value or characteristics by itself. Since if experienced directly
could turn one to ashes. On the other hand one could experience it indirectly by enjoying through
microphone through which I am speaking or through tube lights that are burning now.
Unmanifested god is like steam.

2. Manifested god:
Eg.antaryamin that one can experience now or across a period of time. I relate to people by guiding
them constantly by talking to them inwardly. Manifested god can be compared to the next stage
after steam i.e. water.

3. Incarnated god:
This can also be called the physical form like the water when it turns to ice. It is necessary for god
to incarnate. God must be physically visible in order to relate to you. I am one such incarnation.
Dharma is a train that begins from nowhere and ends nowhere. Lord Rama drove this train, then
Krishna and now it is kalki who is the driver. I speak modern language, science and tech., going with
the modern times.when you come for the Maha Deeksha, and you will know who I am. We will come
face to face. You will have no doubts. Everything work on experience more than teachings .you will
be enlightened. You can see the offerings made at Lord Shiva and Lord Ganesh temple coming to
me here. You will see me appearing on the moon, sun and sky.

Question 3: Bhagawan, why is it people are not accepting our dharma and You as an
avatar?

Answer from Kalki Bhagawan:

There are 3 stages for any dharma:

1. First is non-acceptance,
2. The second is ridicule
3. The third is acceptance.

These stages can be seen for all spiritual movements .so right now our dharma is undergoing the
last phase of the 2nd stage i.e. ridicule. Soon we will have better times. This year2004 will be the
acceptance phase. Our spiritual awakening will gain momentum with each passing day till the last
man on this planet would have attained Mukti.This will predominantly start from June 2004 and will
be established in 2012 by which our earth would have become a paradise. Our dharma started
in1992. The last 12 years was a preparation for the Golden Age.

Actual golden age will start from june 2004. India would become one of the leading nations in every
field. The reason for thus happening is because Venus would pass across the sun. If there were any
great avatar on earth during this phenomenon, rapid changes would take place on earth. Before
when Venus passed Sun on 1952, there was no avatar at that time. But now this will not happen
since we have avatar in this planet.

Question 4: Bhagawan, we youths are constantly under pressure from our parents and
financial problems. What advice can you give us on this and for our future? Which field
can we select for our future?

Answer from Kalki Bhagawan:

All youth should have four steps for their success.

1) Should be clear with their goal.

2) Should not think whether it will happen or not.
3) Should focus on our goal.
4) Relationship with Parents.
The future of India is in the hands of the youth. We have a large human population thus lot of
human resource. India ? china lead in spirituality. The youth must have a focused mind with a vision
&goal in life that is free of conflict. They must also maintain a good relationship with their parents.
India still upholds family values and traditions unlike western countries where the bond is
weakening. All youth should not Judge their parents. You must forgive your parents. If all the above
points are met, then my Grace shall come easily.

In the next few months we will have special programmes for the youth. In this, the course will be
conducted for their brains for more concentration and for their focus and to make them more
intelligent. After the course, you will come out as a finished product. Where ever you go an
academic institutor for a job will choose you. No one can challenge you in the world. This is how I
am about to bring India to the top. But for this to take place you may have to stay in
Varadapalayam for 5-6 days.

On you career growth, as said earlier it is good to take either IT or Biotech field. All other fields will
also be there. But these will run the future. There may be rise and down like a wave in the early
stage. By 2012 it will be stabilized.

Question: One of the fundamental teachings of the Dharma is to set right relationships. Exactly
how can we improve or set right our relationships?

Answer: It is essential for you to first understand that ?Life is relationships?. Now coming to your
question how to improve relationships? The problem of relationships cannot be solved through
psychology. All effort to understand the other person completely can never help. It is like peeling an
onion. As you go on peeling an onion nothing remains. Say, you are eating khova (a south Indian
sweet dish), you don?t try to understand, but just experience the eating of khova. In the same way,
you need to experience the other person just as he or she is.

A husband trying to analyze or understand his wife will take him nowhere. ?Analysis leads to
paralysis?. Everybody is constantly trying to understand, analyse, judge others while struggling to
change the other person. Unfortunately, people fail to realize that this is impossible as all of you are
like computers who have been programmed and hence have no free will of your own. Your past
lives, birth traumas, childhood, education, culture and all your conditionings are in possession of
you and your lives. Your life flows according to this programme.

So, when you are trying to understand and change the other person; it is only one programme
trying to alter another programme. This game goes on from birth to death. Supposing you are going
to a movie everyday, hoping that there will be a new ending, a new climax. Will it really change? All
of you are trying to change each other in the same way!

What you need to do is experience the other person fully.

When the husband returns home to find his wife screaming; he must experience her like watching a
movie or drinking a glass of juice. What happened? Why it happened? Why is her nature that way
cannot be really known. Remember, it is like peeling an onion.

If you experience ? life becomes Joy!

It does not matter what the event is. You have to only experience the programme. Stop judging and
being critical. When you experience the other person, you would know exactly how to respond.

Abraham Lincoln was shot. Who is to be blamed? The person who shot, the person who made the
gun or the person who invented it or somebody else. No person can really be blamed, for, a
situation is dependent on so many factors. It is not possible to pinpoint a single reason. If you look
at The Bible, it also tells us ?Judge not least ye be judged?.

Unless something happens to the programme itself, say through Grace, nothing can change. If the
wife screams, experience it? is it possible? Thousands have done it. It is simple and practical. If you
experience people, your heart flowers and synchronises with Earth?s heartbeat. My Grace flows and
your problems would be solved.

If you don?t set right your relationships, I really cannot help you to the extent I want to help you.
So start experiencing people and events.

***

This article was an excerpt from a meeting with Kalki. More will come in the Experience Newsletter
and can also be found at the website www.experiencefestival.com.

Other material on www.experiencefestival.com related to The Golden Age Foundation:

• Enligtenment: Presentation of The Golden Age Foundation

• Enligtenment: Interview with Acharya Ananda Giri
• Enligtenment: Interview with Acharya Sri Samadarshini
• Creating Sat Karma
• Homa - the divine fire ritual
• The Rural Mission of The Golden Age Foundation

www.experiencefestival.com will soon be updated with much more material covering Enlightenment,
The Golden Age Foundation, Kalki and related topics.

Q - Please give us external Sadhana for flowering of heart.

Bhagwan: Relationship is the key. It is your mirror. No matter

who the person is with whom your relationship is not good, you
have to correct it. Other than this one thing I am not in favour of
external sadhana in our dharma.

Q - We are trying our level best to spread the Dharma. But people
are very hesitant. Why ?

Bhagwan: Let me tell you the speed at which the Dharma is

moving. There is an author in America, who has studied our
movement. He says this dharma has achieved in 16 years what
it has taken Budhism 700 years to achieve. That is the speed at
which we are moving.In china no movement, especially those
from India are allowed. Our movement is the only movement
that is officially sanctioned. In 2007 we can have 1000 teachers
teaching dharma all over china. This is because, the Chinese
government became aware of the value erosion in their youths
and they wanted to do something about it. They appointed a
committee and they visited our place and were impressed. In
Taiwan in less than 12 months we are the largest movement.
The head of military is dancing to our moola mantra. Japan,
Hollywood stars (80%), Bush's sister-in-law, Rumsfield...all have
received Deeksha. There are other ways that we influence.
There is a committee of Nobel laureates in which there are
3 non-Nobel laureates, Gorbachev, Algore and the other person
is me.I am the official spiritual leader of all the world tribes.
Popes secretary came to see us. They wanted us to merge with
them. However, we have different methods. They wanted to
know how to train monks.The dharma is also rapidly spreading
in the Islamic world.. Iran, Iraq, Turkey (here there are 5000
deeksha givers). However, in India it is very slow for various
reasons...media...resistance. From 2007, it is going to be very
fast and we will be virtually unstoppable.

Q - How far does the subconscious mind affect a person ?

Bhagavan: The conscious mind has no control. The unconscious

mind has complete control. You are all robots. When the
calibration of the perital lobes reach (figures can't be disclosed)
then the brain is reprogrammed. Even here there are different
states. It is because of different mental blocks. At (xyz level) it
is ramana state. Here you are not there, there is only total bliss.
You can then transmit silence. This state I will give you in
2007-2008. It will be more and more extraordinary beautiful.

Q - So when you give deeksha you speak of this deeksha as a

neurobiological process that affects the brain?

Bhagwan : Yes, when we give deeksha it is like the passing on of an

electrical energy that affects the brain, the spinal cord and what we
call the ductless glands or the ‘Chakras'. So most of the work is
being done on the Frontal lobes and the Parietal lobes of the brain.
There is an activation of the frontal lobes and a deactivation of the
parietal lobes, plus some energies are sent into the ductless glands
to reactivate these chakras. So all this in turn produces a hole in
the mind and a link is established between God and man.Thereafter
what happens is God's work. Up to then, of course, we can do certain
things.

Q - Right. So when you speak about losing the ‘self', that's what
happens when you make this hole in the wall ?
Bhagwan : When you make the hole in the wall, then God can take
over and then he works on the senses, liberating the senses from the
mind, from the clutches of the mind. When that happens you lose
your ‘self'. That part of the work happens through God himself.
As he is the creator, he works like a computer to rearrange the
brain and he takes over.

Q - So each person's enlightenment is absolutely unique then ?

Bhagwan : It's absolutely unique. It depends on his background, his

conditioning, what happened in his childhood, his own seeking, his
religious conditioning. So all these things are involved.

Q : That's amazing. So even the people who are consciously and

adamantly refusing to even think about sharing the earth with
other people, who are trying to control the resources of the
earth and creating environmental devastation for their own
benefit, whether companies, governments, businesses, or
individuals, this will all change ?

Bhagwan : Yes, all this will dramatically change. Man will soon
realize that the earth is a living organism, he depends on it like
his Mother, so no one will even think of harming the earth. This
won't take some kind of education; it will be a natural happening.
This is what will happen. So we are going to see a very different
earth, a very different world. I am not speculating. I am just
speaking very directly from the visions thousands of people have
had in the last decade from various continents.
Q : Bhagavan there are many scientists who predict, based on
what is happening on the planet today - global warming, possible
ice age coming, the quality of air and water and so on - that
there could be a major environmental catastrophe and that we
might even end up wiping out all life on the planet. How can you
be so sure that there will be a planetary enlightenment ?

Bhagwan : The predictions are quite true, but what they are not
aware of is that, as we have seen in our visions, a great
transformation is sweeping across the planet which will in turn
prevent these things from happening. Already we are seeing signs
of people becoming enlightened, and how it affects the environment.
We are able to see this on a very small scale. And from that we are
able to predict that on a global scale this transformation is going to
occur. This is what is going to save the earth. If that does not
happen, then what the scientists are predicting could very well
come true.
Q : So an example could be that if a village gets enlightened and
there has been a drought for the past few years, then the monsoons ?

Bhagwan : The monsoons will come, Yes. It is happening in many

places in India. We are seeing it.

Q : So similarly when there are predictions of major earthquakes,

volcanic activity, pole shifts even, then as people become
enlightened, this will alter our relationship with the earth. We
could save the earth ?

Bhagwan : That is why we are telling people " the house is on fire,
let us move faster, let us hurry up".

Q : Yes, this is a very important message for people to hear.

There are so many people in despair and hopelessness, so many
good people who have given up any kind of future for the earth
because of what they see with their outer eyes.

Bhagwan : Yes, but there is no need for them to lose hope. Because
things are going to change dramatically. In a very unexpected way
things are going to change.

Q : Yes, I am so happy to hear that. As people become enlightened

and as the planet becomes enlightened as a collective, how will
that change the physical quality of the earth ?

Bhagwan : There is a very close correlation between human

consciousness and the physical process occurring on the planet.
So the moment that conflict levels are reduced in human
consciousness, you will find dramatic changes at the earth level
also. So you will find a reduction of insects and pests in the crops
and nature behaving in a much better way without the need for
chemicals. All these things are a natural consequence of the
reduction of conflict in human consciousness. There is such a close
correlation between the two. This also we are seeing on a small
scale at the village level.
Q - What will this world will look like, in practical terms ?

Bhagwan : In practical terms the world will will look very different.
We will not be able to talk about me being an Indian or you being an
American or somebody else being an African. We cannot talk in terms
of races and nationalities or I can't say I'm a Hindu, Christian , or a
Muslim. So all these things which divide man will just disappear.
All these things will just drop off. There will be no need for these
things. All these divisions will not exist. We will become just human
beings. We will become one family. It's not a concept, this will just
happen. This is when we will truly become humans. But as long as we
are going to define ourselves in terms of nationalities, religions,
cultures, race, we will still continue to be tribal and very primitive.
We are becoming human now. It will definitely happen.

Q - What about people who are still into power, control and ego
games and who may not want to get enlightened ?

Bhagwan : Yes, people who stubbornly resist enlightenment will

also naturally become enlightened. At that point there won't be
any resisting it. Nobody can say "I will stay out of enlightenment".
That is not possible. It's a natural occurrence. It's human evolution.
So all these power games and ego games will just stop. You can just
not do it anymore. The brain will function differently.

Q - Bhagavan, many many people have been seeking for many

many lifetimes and been through all kinds of Practices, Sadhanas, Rituals and
ceremonies, traditions and many times they feel they have only been able to go so far and
none have been able to
actually cross over into enlightenment. So how is this different?

Bhagwan : When I look at a person, I don't see him as a first-timer.

I only see millions of years behind him. I believe that all of humanity
has finished all the work they need to do. I think everybody has
been well prepared through so many lives. And therefore now is
the time to get it.All the hard work has been done.I believe
everybody has done the hard work, and now the fruit is there to
be had.

Q- So there's no one who is not a seeker?

Bhagwan : There is no one who is not a seeker. They could be

seeking in different ways...They could be seeking without even
knowing they are seeking.Without knowing they are seeking...

Q - So as this work progresses, is it possible that more and more

people will become enlightened who have no idea about
enlightenment, who have never been seeking enlightenment, it
will simply just happen?

Bhagwan : Yes, what is likely to happen is that there are now

people who are enlightened who are able to give deekshas to
people who are able to get into good states. But very soon, may
be a few months from now, those who will receive deeksha from
them will naturally become enlightened. And not only that, they
will be able to give deeksha to others and make them enlightened.
This process will continue for some time. There will come a time
when without deeksha the whole of mankind is going to make it.
Once the critical level is reached there is going to be a
spontaneous occurrence across the planet.

Q - Bhagwan what should we do for an Erect Body

Posture, which in turn will help us to be in permanent
Break Thru state ?

Bhagwan: a) What you must do is, you must not get up late in
the morning. You should always get up before Sunrise. That is
very very important.

b) Most important part is, always the day must begun, with
gratitude to ones parents.

c) Third is, you should never eat till your full stomach. Always
some space should be left empty, while eating.

d) Then at night, before you sleep, you must always sit down for
a moment and see what all have happened during the day and
how was your mind functioning, what all feelings you had, how you
did you escape from your thoughts, its ugliness and then, try to
confront it for some time and then go to sleep. Then you will find
that you are intensly aware of your ugliness and there will be no
conflict at all. Then there will be dramatically change and you will
be progressing spiritually, as well.

If all these is maintained properly, it is more than enough to put

your body into a beautiful rythem and break thru state.

Q)Bhagavan, what is the difference between your teachings and the other great
teachings?

A)Basically, for example, other teachers say, "Be aware of your mind. Be
a witness." and all those things. What I am saying is, "It is not
possible for man. Most teachings are impractical. If one tries to
practice it, he might actually go into certain problems you know. Like,
he may become insane. People will become depressed, all kinds of problem
will occur. People may commit suicide. Many things will happen like
that, because those teachings cannot be practiced. For example, they
talk about "Practicing Awareness". That's impossible! To practice it.
But, my statement is - They are describing their state. They did not
practice those things and get that state. They got that state. Because
they got that state, it was possible for them to be aware of. Without
the state you cannot be aware of. Similarly, when it comes to Ramana
Maharishi, my stand is - Ramana Maharishi first had a death experience.
Therefore the question "Who am I" made sense to him. But to
a person without a death experience it won't make any sense. So, my
stand is - Most teachings won't work. They give some clarity about life.
But then you cannot practice them, because you must be in an altered
state of consciousness. Then it is very natural.

For example, it is very natural for a man to be jealous, very natural

for a man to be angry. So, if you are talking about not being jealous,
not being angry - you must be like a Buddha or a Christ. Buddha and
Christ had a different state of consciousness. So, my stand is, I will
give you that state. Once I have given you that state, then naturally
you have no jealousy, you have no anger, you have no frustration, you
have love and bliss. But you can't try to get love, because the love
that we are talking about is unconditional love. However much you try
you can't get there. You are full of jealousy. Through effort you can't
get to non-jealousy. From jealousy you can only go into jealousy, you
can't go into non- jealousy. So whatever you do, you are trapped. So my
whole thing is - this whole thing is not a psychological process. It is
a biological process. Now what I do is, I basically work on the human
brain to activate this mystical power. So infact I myself don't have to
work directly also. These Dasas who are enlightened, they are in tune
with me. Everyday we do this process. I transfer the power to them and
they inturn will go and touch. Then, as they touch, the brain undergoes
a transformation. So, to me, if you take Ramana Maharishi, his brain
underwent that transformation. Therefore Ramana Maharishi is in that
state. Jiddu Krishnamurthy is in that state because his brain underwent
that process. A Buddha is a Buddha because his brain underwent that
process. So, unless your brain also undergoes that process, you cannot
be a Buddha, you cannot be a Ramana Maharishi, you cannot be a Jiddu
Krishnamurthy. You cannot be anybody.

So that is why I am telling, all teachings are useless. All that they
can do is that they can make you into a seeker. You start desiring for
it. They are describing Bombay, so begin to seek Bombay. You know there
is no way for you to get to Bombay, because you must undergo the same
Neuro-Biological transformation that these teachers underwent. What is
involved here is Neuro-Biology. So what we give is called the "Deeksha".
The Deeksha is transfer of power to certain parts of the
brain. Then certain parts get activated, certain parts get deactivated
and you can get into any spiritual states you seek for. It could be a
Christian state, it could be an Islamic state, it could be a Buddhist
state, or a Taoist state. So each of these states depend on a particular
activity of the brain. So I belong to all faiths. I have Christians, I
have Muslims in the movement, you know. So whatever state you want I can
give it to you. So, my whole teaching is - IT HAS TO BE
GIVEN TO YOU.

Q)Is there any difference between the various states you mentioned - the
Buddhist, Islam, Christian and the Taoist states?

A)There is a difference. A Buddhist state will be, for example,

technically when we speak, you know what is called the Agneya Chakra? If
that Chakra is activated you get a Buddhist state. If Visshudhi is
activated you get a Islamic state. If Anahatha is activated you get a
Christian state. If the Sahasrara is activated you get a Hindu state. So
these Chakras are actually located in different parts of the brain. But
what is common is, in all those states there is no suffering. There
is love. There is joy. But the actual experience is different between
each state. So as far as I am concerned, you choose your state and I am
prepared to give you that state. I can just give it to you, because I
know what technicality is behind it. Without knowing the technicality,
simply going on talking, talking, talking, what is the use? and the poor
seeker goes on listening to teachings. But things won't happen. He'll
loose interest in his family life, he'll loose interest in the
world. Ultimately he'll become depressed. 30 to 40 years he will be
seeking. He will be doing sadhana. He'll get some peace, some joy, but
no progress. He begins to loose interest in spirituality and religion.
He becomes frustrated. Then ultimately he becomes a nuisance in the
family itself. Being a frustrated man he cannot enjoy life. So he
becomes a burden on others. Anybody who is unhappy, who is frustrated,
who is suffering, he will cause trouble to others.

So that is why I do not believe in propagating teachings. My thing is -

Come, straight away get the state. After you have got the state, use the
teachings to understand the state. Suppose you are in a Buddhist state,
the Buddhist teachings will help you know exactly where you are. A
Christian teaching will help you get clarity into a Christian state. The
teachings come after the state, not before. So I maintain, all teachers
are putting the cart before the horse. So, if you are a good
teacher, give the seeker the state. Give it to him first. After having
given it, then give the teaching. You may give a little in the beginning
to help him seek. That's all. Then quickly go on to the state itself. If
you have no ability to give the state, then you have no right to talk.

Suppose I am talking to you something, I must be in a position to give

you that state. If I cannot give you, I should not talk. I should not
say - "Oh, so beautiful my state is. You also try, you will get it."
Well, it does not happen that way. Ramana Maharishi did not apply his
teachings to himself. He first got the state. It happened to him. Then
he began to speak. Jiddu Krishanmurthy, did not apply his teachings. He
got the state. Thereafter he began to talk. So, is there any single
teacher who has applied his teaching and got there? Nobody. So when you
have not applied and got there, how is it you teach others? You are
telling, "You practice compassion, you practice love, you over come
lust". Is it so easy to overcome lust? Do this and do that. And the poor
fellow keeps trying and trying. And the enlightened person is made into
a model. He thinks that's how you become that. He is trying and he is
ruined. That is why I am against the practice of spirituality. So in
that way I am very very different from other teachers. They say - Nobody
can give it to you. You have to make it on your own. I am telling, "Till
dooms day you will not make it on your own. It has to be given to you".
Exactly opposite. That's where we differ.

Everyday I am producing hundreds of sages. You can come and see. It'll
take 3 to 4 minutes. That's all. One touch and a seer is produced. You
can meet the villagers - Muniamma, Kuppamma, Munuswamy - in unimaginable
states. All that happened was just one touch. Then the teachings come
out. Now if they talk, they will excel some of the greatest teachers of
all times, because their state is talking. You can see live people,
ordinary people, ordinary villagers, not just one or
two - hundreds. Fully enlightened, who can do miracles, healing
miracles. So, this is a strange village. Even as you walk you will be
meeting Ramana Maharishis and Buddhas. But only things is they are not
as famous as Ramana Maharishi and Buddha. They are ordinary people. That
is the only difference. When you talk you will know. "My goodness what
is this!" They have been produced liked that. If you are a true guru,
you must produce it. Otherwise why do you teach?

Q)Is this movement based on scientific theories?

A)Mine is purely science. See if I meet a Neuro-Biologist, I will talk

to him in terms of temporal lobes, parietal lobes - so I will talk in
terms of pure science. So I go hand in hand with science. I welcome
science and I believe the day has come when science and spirituality go
together. So for me everything is science only.

Miracles do happen. This movement is producing healers everyday. So we

train up people to be very good healers. Some miracles I do myself. If
you talk of science, there was a lady recently whose tongue was cut off
in the cancer institute. Now the tongue has come. But, they are not
speaking a word about it. They are only telling that Chemotherapy was
done and it became alright. They are not speaking one word about the
growth of the tongue. That, I am saying is not science. If you are true
to science you must say, "The tongue has grown". You must investigate
it. How can you suppress a fact? When you have cut a tongue and the
tongue has come back. This does not happen in western countries.

Q)Bhagavan, are you God?

A)Basically, it is like this. God essentially is unmanifest. That is, He

cannot be seen, He cannot be spoken to. But He is there. But since you
cannot see, you cannot speak to, He is as good as not being there as far
as you are concerned.

Then, the God that people normally talk about is the God who you call as
Antaryamin. i.e., He can be seen inside, you can talk inside; He can
appear to so many and disappear. That's what people normally refer to as
God. Sometimes God can incarnate in physical form. That's what is called
an Avatar. I am an Avatar. In that sense I am God. But if you
ask me - am I that unmanifest God right now, I am certainly not because
I am fully physical. But I am God in the sense that I am an Avatar. So,
God has these three faces. The example I give for this is - steam, water
and ice. They are the same thing. As steam, it is everywhere. You can't
control it. A liquid is more controlled, but still it is moving. Ice is
much more solid. The physical Avatar is something very solid. So,
Miracles happen around the physical Avatar. You can come to me. You can
talk to me about your problem. The problem is solved. If you come to me,
I can say, "OK, this will happen, that will happen". Many, many miracles
will happen. Now, it is very easy to contact me than to contact the
manifested God and still more difficult to contact the unmanifest God.
That is the advantage. You take my picture and you talk to me. The
response comes back.

And I am not claiming that I am the only Avatar. There have been Avatars
from time to time. The world is full of Avatars through whom God is
acting. That's all.

How can we tackle the Ayodhya issue?

To me all problems, whether they are economical problems, or political

problems, they all emanate from one basic problem. That is, man is not
enlightened. So, if one problem disappears, another problem will crop
up, if you are not enlightened. Today, it might be Ayhodhya, tomorrow it
might be something else. So the ultimate solution is that man must
become enlightened. And I maintain that large numbers of people will
become enlightened, starting from June 2004 and by September-November
2012, most of humanity will be enlightened. When that happens? The
problem will just disappear. That is my solution to the world's
problems. I don't believe in national boundaries. Dividing the world
into nations, into countries, into religions - as long as there are
divisions there will be suffering. All divisions must go. If all
divisions must go, the 'Self' must go. That is Enlightenment. Unless man
becomes Enlightened, there will one problem or the other. Say there
is water in the pipe. If you press it here, it will bulge somewhere
else. If you press it there, it will bulge somewhere else again. Ayodhya
might go, something else might crop up. Where is the end to all this ?
So, the ultimate solution is that man must be transformed. If man is
going to live the way he is living, he will destroy himself. With all
these nuclear weapons, ecological pollutions and other conflicts. We are
only racing towards destruction. Unless there is a transformation in his
consciousness and he becomes a totally new being, there is no hope for
man. I am interested in man's problem. That will take care of this
problem also.

Suppose Hindus and Muslims, they can no more see themselves as Hindus
and Muslims, where is the Ayodhya problem? But otherwise where is the
solution? The same thing can be applied for India-Pakistan also. It also
boils down to a religious problem only. And you must out grow religion,
which means you must outgrow the 'Self'. So, we need a radical
transformation of man, which is possible. I never talk about that which
is impossible. I can demonstrate to you that it is possible.
What is the root cause of fundamentalism? How can it be rooted out?

You see, fundamentalism is basically because people are not able to cope
up with the changes that are happening. The world is moving too, too,
too fast. So the old is not prepared to give way to the new. If you are
not prepared to give way to the new, then fundamentalism arises. It can
be Islamic fundamentalism, it can be Christian fundamentalism, it can be
Hindu fundamentalism. But the fact is we cannot stop these changes from
occurring. So, more changes are likely to take place and there could be
a growth in fundamentalism also. Again and again I see only
Enlightenment as the solution, because the world
is growing very, very fast. You are not prepared to give up your old
ways, which means you have become a fundamentalist. That's what is
happening. Islamic world is not able to cope up with the changes that
are occurring and that is the root cause of fundamentalism. So, if you
must be able to cope up with these changes, you must outgrow the 'Self'.
So, ultimately, you come back to enlightenment as the solution.

How can we achieve this kind of Enlightenment?

What I am maintaining is - 60,000 people must become fully enlightened.

If 60,000 people become fully enlightened, all else is automatic. i.e.
Automatically everywhere people will become enlightened. That's all.
It's automatic. A natural process. But to trigger it 60,000 people must
go into a very high state of enlightenment. If they emerge on the
planet, then the whole planet will be in that state. So my work is only
to produce those 60,000 people. So, I believe that by 2012 I will be
able to achieve it. Latest is 2012. It could well happen before that.
When that happens, their mere presence on the planet brings the
transformation. You don't have to know about the movement, come to the
movement, nothing. Wherever you are, suddenly one fine morning you will
be enlightened. You'll become very calm, loving and peaceful. It's
natural. It happens. That's all. That's what we are doing. So we have
allotted some numbers to every country. We have people in every country.
All are working towards this. So, if 60,000 people if we successfully
reach, it's all over.

What is your vision and mission?

My vision is that there must be the Golden Age by 2012. My mission is to

make 60,000 people enlightened. That's my mission. The way is - I give
Deeksha. That's my vision, mission and way. I simply give Deeksha. I am
not asking you to do some terrible practice. You simply come and take
Deeksha. That's all. You are enlightened. Like this I want 60,000
people.

Is the state you intend to give a permanent and irreversible one?

Yes, yes. Because this is a Neuro-Biological transformation. It is not
psychological. If it is psychological, it'll come, it'll go. I am not
working on the software. I am working on the hardware - the brain
itself. I am bringing about the mutation of the brain. Because when the
brain has changed, the hardware has changed. It's permanent. If it's
only in the software, it'll be there for a few days, few hours, few
minutes, few seconds and go away. This is a hardware transformation. You
can meet these enlightened people actually to understand this
transformation. I am not talking about something that is going to happen
in the future. I am talking about things that have happened. Its
finished. We have every country. We have Japanese, we have Russians, we
have Americans, we have Swedes, we have Indians, all in these states.
We are producing more and more. That's what it is. We are basically
giving it to people.

After bringing in the Golden Age, what is next?

See, the 'next' is of no consequence to me at all. Because what would

have happened is, in the Golden Age, people would be happy. My only goal
is to make people happy. Once that happens, it's Good Bye. They can do
whatever they want. I have no other goal. It is to make people happy.
That's all. After that they should be full of joy and bliss. There
should no suffering. If a person is happy - eating, drinking, walking -
everything is joy for him. So, whether he is driving a
Bullock cart on the road, that's not my problem. But you should be
happy.

Can you tell us about your transformation from Vijay Kumar to Bhagavan
Bhagavan?

See, there has been no psychological transformation in my consciousness.

From day one, it has been the same.

Who is your guru?

I have no guru. It is not that I was seeking enlightenment and I finally

became enlightened. For me from day one it's the same thing. This Vijay
Kumar to Bhagavan transformation happened in a place called Somangalam,
Madras, where we had retreats. Some people began to see me coming in a
horse - a vision, with a sword and all that. So they began to use the
word Kalki. Slowly it began to spread. And they were composing some
songs and they were singing. That's how it got stuck. We made some
efforts to remove that name. But the more we made efforts the more it
got stuck. Especially, people in North India refused to accept any other
name.

But I am not saying that I am the Kalki of the puranas. So I am not

claiming all those things at all. Simply it's a name. What I am
maintaining is - Yes, I can give Enlightenment. I have the power to give
Enlightenment. This is the highest. In India it is believed that only
the greatest Avatar of God can give Enlightenment. That's the general
belief. You can do miracles, but giving Enlightenment is a different
story. I am not claiming anything more.
You come, whether you have faith or not, belief or not, I can still give
it to you. That's all there is to it.

Is there Mukthi? Is it possible to achieve?

Yes... hundreds achieved Mukthi. Thousands infact. Not just hundreds.

Its not a question of - can they achieve. They have achieved it. It's
over. You should meet and talk to them. You must meet Mukthas.

Is it possible to picturise that state of mind?

You can't picturise it.

Do all the Mukthas have miraculous power?

Not exactly. Some have the power to heal and some don't have. Not that
every Muktha has got the power to do something. Some have, some don't
have. That depends upon what you are seeking. Some have no interest in
miracles, so for such people we won't give those powers.

Is it possible to eliminate Human suffering through Dhyana?

See, Dhyana can help reduce the suffering a little bit. Beyond that any
Sadhanas are useless. All Sadhanas are only up to a point. After that
the returns are not there. It's not worth it. Up to a point, yes it's
OK. The only solution is Enlightenment. When Enlightenment happens you
are in a state of Dhyana 24 hours.

For all social, political and economical problems, is Enlightenment the

solution?

Yes.

Only solution?

Yes. The only solution. The ultimate solution. Let us say a man and a
woman are fighting. Suppose he or she is enlightened, there is no fight.
The Gundas in this Village (Varadhayapalem, Andhra Pradesh) are
conducting Sathsang now. This is a place where, when I came, people told
me - Why did you come to this place? It is such a terrible place. Full
of wife-beating. I said - I want exactly that place. Today the Gundas
are conducting sathsangs. So what has happened is transformation. They
don't drink. There is no wife beating. Everything has happened. Here,
water used to stagnate and there used to be cesspool everywhere. Now
everybody is co-operating. So, there is drainage and water does not
stagnate anywhere. There is a health
revolution taking place. People have stopped drinking. There is no wife
beating. There is love in the family. Everything is changing, through
Enlightenment. What could not be achieved by any rural organization has
been achieved by transforming the person.

What is the real meaning of Enlightenment?

See, to be enlightened is not to feel separate from the other. You are
there. You feel you are separate from all these people. Suppose you are
to become enlightened, you will say you only are the other. If you feel
that way, where can there be conflict? There can only be love. Isn't it?
That's all there is to it. And always there is happiness also. A happy
person cannot trouble others. An unhappy person will be pinching other.
Will give pain to others. After Enlightenment nobody gives trouble to
another. Everybody is happy. You will find in this village, all people
gathering, singing and dancing. All kinds. Caste is not a problem. Once
you are Enlightened there is no caste. The Harijan, the Bramhin, all
will be singing and dancing. Everything goes off. The caste is gone.
Muslims dancing with Hindus - you can see it in this
village. Everything has happened because they are in a different state.
They are all helping. You don't find street fights. Completely
transformed. And we had taken up this place because it was a horrible
place. That's where we have proved it. Total transformation.

Every month we are having a program. At least 500 people come for
Enlightenment from the local villages. People are standing in a queue,
because we cannot take more than that. It is spreading very fast.
Imagine the whole of India Enlightened. Then, what happens to all the
problems that we are talking about? There is a coolie in this village
who is Enlightened. Now, every rich man wants her to come their house
and perform Kalasha Pooja in their house. It's a pride to invite her to
their house now. All social dynamics have changed.

Westerners are also watching us very closely, because their interest is

that, if it can be done in other in other countries then terrorism can
be avoided. That is their interest. Therefore they are studying us very
closely. How come people are getting transformed so suddenly? Because
this does not take much time. Yesterday you were very ordinary. Today
you are transformed. Just 24 hours. And it's irreversible and permanent.
So what more can somebody ask for? Poor people in villages are dancing
in joy and they call their dance "The dance of Freedom". Even the
richest man in Karnataka cannot have 1/1000th of their joy. And ofcourse
along with this joy you will also become prosperous. The mind is so
clear. Whatever they touch, it is successful.
If Veerapan or Bin Laden are given the Deeksha, will they also be transformed?

Yes. If you bring Veerappan or Bin Laden, they'll be completely

transformed. It'll be over. Anybody can be transformed. Straight from
jail you can bring them. In regular jails of Andra Pradesh, we brought
about tremendous transformation. Strangely their cases have been
dismissed and they all have gone out also without criticizing the
Government (at Srikakulam). We have also had requests from other
countries like Siberia to go and work in their jails.

What are the means to become happy?

To me happiness is when you help others. But helping others is not so

easy. When I do this Neuro-Biological transformation, you naturally feel
like helping others. And as you help others you become happy. You can
try and see. When you help you become happy. But you must be naturally
helping others, which is a state of mind.

What is your expectation from the press?

The press must play a very constructive role in building the society. It
is very often portraying negative news. It must do something very
positive because it is a very powerful tool. It can really push people
to do certain things. If that can be achieved it is a great thing.

How is it going to be in the next 10 years?

I am producing Enlightened people by the hundreds everyday. Soon it's

going to be an explosion. I will say this is the last phase of man. It
is like - Man has been building a house for so many thousands of years
now. And 2004 to 2012 is the grahapravesham. Man has reached the final
stage after all these years of struggle. You will see a very different
world, which you cannot even imagine now and it will happen very
fast,very, very fast.