Reformed Apologetics Ministries - A Critique of Shabir Ally's Debate Tactics Pt. 1b

2/9/2019 Reformed Apologetics Ministries: A Critique of Shabir Ally’s Debate Tactics Pt.
1b
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ABOUT Wednesday, September 16, 2015
My name is Keith Thompson. I A Critique of Shabir Ally’s Debate Tactics Pt. 1b

am a Christian apologist and
documentary film maker. I By Sam Shamoun
write for www.Answering-
Islam.org and am the owner of
Reformed Apologetics We proceed with our exposition of some of the tactics which Ally employs in his debates and supposed dialogues.
Ministries. I can be reached at
keithtruth2010@hotmail.com
Home Page
Ally’s Contradictions and Inconsistencies
My DOCUMENTARY FILMS
- Black Hebrew Israelites

Debunked When Dr. Nabeel Qureshi asked Ally in the cross-examination section of their debate whether he would agree that the pre-Pauline
- Darwinism's Downfall hymns cited by Paul and Mark’s Gospel portray Jesus as Yahweh, Ally responded by saying,
- Sword and the Crescent
- Atheists Don't Exist
- Purgatory Debunked
- Reformed Answers on the
Roman Corruption of "I wouldn't agree that either Paul or Mark presents Jesus as Yahweh. Paul, despite what he says about Jesus and raising
Christianity Jesus to a high status, which Muslims would not accept it, Paul stopped short of making Jesus Yahweh. For example, 1
- Word of Faith Teachers: Corinthians chapter 15 verse 24 shows that in the final end game, Jesus is going to return all power to God who gave it to
Origins & Errors of Their him in the first place. And Christ will be subjected to God so that God will be all and all, which means that you do not
Teaching have three co-equal and co-eternal beings. You have God who is greatest and Jesus who is under God; that’s why Paul
- Joel Osteen: Origins and could say in 1 Corinthians chapter 11 verse 3, that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of Christ is God."
Errors of his Teaching
- Historical Case for Paul's
Apostleship: Critique of
Muslim Arguments
Ally went on to further assert that,
VIDEO TEACHINGS
- An Historical Case for “Mark as well does not present Jesus as Yahweh, even though there are some passages which as you mentioned about
Christ's Resurrection preparing the way of the Lord, which might tease the boundaries a little bit. But that’s different from Mark coming out and
- Adolf Hitler was not a
saying, ‘O, looks like Jesus is actually Yahweh.’ Mark is actually very clear, when he quotes Jesus in chapter 12 verse
Christian
number 29, Jesus repeating the same Shema Yisrael, saying that there is only one God, the God of Israel. And then the man
- Refuting the Lie John Invented
Sayings of Jesus who asked Jesus about this says, ‘You are right teacher! There is only one God and besides him there is no other.’ So the
- Shabir Ally & Raymond ‘him’ is somebody else other than Jesus, and then Jesus praised the man for having such deep insight. So it’s clear from
Brown’s Redaction Criticism of Mark’s Gospel, that Jesus is not Yahweh. Mark chapter 13 verse 32 shows that Jesus does not know where the hour will
John occur.”
- Answering Muslims: Is Jesus
a Son Among Tons?
- Refuting Bart Ehrman’s
“Passion Contradictions”
And in his debate with Jonathan McLatchie, Ally reiterated his claim by arguing that Paul did not ascribe the word theos, i.e. “God”,
Muslims Parrot
to Jesus, or identify him as Yahweh:
- How Salvation Works: Plain
and Simple
- Catholic Idol Worshiper's Big
Justification Lie
- Jesus Sent for Jews Only?: “Some of our friends think that the NT somehow declares that Jesus is God; so now let’s look at the NT. And before I do,
Answering Muslims let’s say something about the development of ideas as an introduction to reading the NT. In the intertestamental period, that
- Old Testament Genocide?: is the period between the Old and the New Testament [sic], people began to speculate, perhaps there is an intermediary
Answering "Atheists" between God and man. God – the philosophers said – is so unchangeable and so remote, that he does not deal with a
- The Bible and Slavery:
changeable world directly. But he deals with the world through some kind of intermediary; that could be like the divine
Answering "Atheists"
mind or the Logos of God, his reason, or his Sophia, his wisdom. Maybe he doesn't create the world directly, he creates
- Absurdities of Youtube Atheist
through an intermediary. But that was an idea, but it did not lead the Jews to worship something other, or someone other
"CultofDusty"
than Yahweh.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180426202126/http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2015/09/a-critique-of-shabir-allys-debate_16.html 1/5
2/9/2019 Reformed Apologetics Ministries: A Critique of Shabir Ally’s Debate Tactics Pt. 1b
5 captures
“Thunderf00t” 26 f 🐦
"AronRa"
“Now in the NT we have some developments. Some people now begin to think of Jesus as that intermediary. We have in
- 20 Reasons to Never Join
one of St. Paul's writings that Jesus is that agent through which God created the world, so that here we have the agent idea.
Islam
But Paul does not attribute to Jesus the title theos, which in Greek would mean God; Paul always distinguishes between
- The Bible Teaches Original
Sin God and Jesus. He’s granting Jesus a lofty status as Creator of the world, but still as an intermediary between the ultimate
- Whalid Shoebat’s Son’s Creator God and the world. So he is an intermediary, BUT NOT YAHWEH HIMSELF. So this is why when Paul would
“Christian Militancy” Teaching speak of Jesus, he would speak of Jesus in a very exalted language, and some of our Christian friends would say, 'See, that
Refuted means God!'” (Emphasis ours)
- Proof Virgin Mary is not the
Ark of the Covenant
-Brief Explanation of Calvinism
- Jeffrey Daugherty's "Apostle
Ally then went on to make the following argument:
Paul Antichrist" Theory
Debunked
- Refutation of Heretic Jesse
Morrell's Documentary
"Beyond Augustine" part 1, 2 “Now when Paul and other writers are speaking about God, they sometimes take OT passages where Yahweh is mentioned,
- Myth of Imputed and they start, in a tantalizing way, putting it in such a manner that when our Christian friends read it now, they're thinking,
Righteousness of Christ? 'Oh, it looks like Jesus is that Yahweh!' But what needs to be distinguished very clearly is the usage of 'the Lord'–which is
Answering Heretic Jesse ambiguous, and vague and more general–and a reference to ‘the Lord God,’ the ultimate God; and Paul does make that
Morrell distinction. We have to be aware of this. So when we read Paul's writings, whose writings are the earliest that we have of
- A Biblical Case for
the NT, we should keep that distinction in mind.”
Determinism: God's
sovereignty over all (Chris
Gautreau)
- Defending Reformed View of
John 6 - Refuting Heretic “If we keep that distinction then when we go to John’s Gospel we understand what is happening. For John’s Gospel as
Kerrigan Skelly well, there’s the ultimate God, the only true God according to John chapter 17, verse number 3. Jesus looks up into heaven,
- Was Judas Once a Saved True he’s praying, and he’s saying ‘this is eternal life that they may know you as the only true God, and Jesus your messenger as
Believer? - Refuting Heretic Christ.’ So he’s distinguishing between himself and the true God. It is true that John’s Gospel also uses the term God to
Kerrigan Skelly refer to Jesus, but not the ultimate God. John’s Gospel begins, ‘In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
- Theory on the Origins of
God, and the Word was divine’… is the best translation because the word used there in Greek is theos, which means ‘God.’
Papal Infallibility
But it can mean ‘a god,’ as opposed to ho theos, which means definitely ‘the God.’ Now one can argue it the other way and
-Answers to Theological
say that its grammatical necessary for John to put it in this way for what he wanted to say at this point. However, because
Questions Posed by YouTube
Subscribers - part 1, 2, 3 the point is disputed and the grammarians are arguing it both ways, I want to ask you if John definitely wanted to say that
Jesus is the ultimate God why would he put the matter in such a manner, that people would dispute over it and they would
not be able to come to a definite and unified conclusion about this? He should state it somewhere very plainly. But what he
DEBATES & DISCUSSIONS
is stating plainly is that Jesus has a God!
- Is Muhammad Predicted in
the Bible? (Keith Thompson vs.
Inamullah Mumtaz)
- Is Papal Primacy Primitive?
“So even if you can call Jesus God this is a kind of an intermediary God. It’s not something that Muslims will accept to be
(Keith Thompson vs. Catholic
sure, we do not accept intermediary gods; but we should be clear what John is saying. What John is saying is neither
Minister)
- Is the Roman Catholic Papacy acceptable to Muslims nor to Trinitarians, because John does not have this concept of the Trinity. The Trinity requires that
Biblical and Historical? (Keith there are three eternal Persons who are eternally co-equal, and according to John, Jesus is not coequal with the ultimate
Thompson vs. Roman Catholic) God. That is why John in chapter 20, verse 17 has Jesus saying to his disciple Miriam Magdalene, ‘Tell my brothers that I
- Papal Primacy and Canon am ascending to my God and your God, My Father and your Father.’ So Jesus has a God according to this. This passage is
Debate (Keith Thompson vs. important because some of our friends say that Jesus was not known to be God during his lifetime; it is the resurrection
Catholic) from the dead that proved that he conquered death, and therefore that he is God. But that now, we have Jesus saying this,
- Catholic Apologist Admits he according to the Christian narrative, after the resurrection from the dead, and he still has a God. So even though John’s
can't Historically Prove Peter
Gospel is referring to Jesus as, in a way, as a theos, he is referring to Jesus as a begotten God; so there is an ultimate God
was First Roman Bishop &
and there is a begotten one according to this Gospel.”
More (Keith Thompson vs.
Fidei Defensor SPQR)
- Is Justification by Faith
Alone? (Keith Thompson vs.
Catholic Peter Dimond) Suffice it to say, we will thoroughly refute all of these assertions in this series of rebuttals. At this point we would like to simply
- Is Paul a True Apostle? (Keith point out how Ally has no qualms with contradicting himself, even in the very same debate!
Thompson vs. Muslim Nadir
Ahmed)
- Does the Immaculate
Conception Contradict
For instance, it must have slipped Ally’s mind what he previously stated to Qureshi in his opening statements:
Scripture and History? (Keith
Thompson vs. Richard a Roman
Catholic)
-Infant Baptism Debate: Chris
Gautreau vs. Zachary Kueker “Two streams of teaching. On the one hand there is Paul, and hence we find in the NT statements about… Paul saying for
(written debate) example THAT GOD CAME DOWN, HUMBLED HIMSELF, BECAME JESUS – Philippians chapter 2, the Carmen
- Is God Sovereign Over All? Christi that Nabeel spoke about. 1 Corinthians chapter 8, verse number 6, Paul takes the Shema Yisrael AND HE MAKES
(Chris Gautreau vs.
TWO PERSONS OUT OF THAT ONE. In the Shema Yisrael there was only one Lord God. Now Paul makes it one Lord
FaithandPractice)
AND one God – one Lord Jesus, one God the Father; he splits them. So we know the hydrant collider has split the atom
- Is Christianity a Religion of
recently, now Paul did a splitting way back when. But Paul is representing one particular view here.” (Emphasis ours)
Peace? (Keith Thompson vs.
Muslim Sami Zaatari)
- Discussion with two Catholics
on Interpreting Scripture
- Is Free Will Biblical? (Keith
Thompson vs. Charismatic Go is MAR
Notice how Ally admits that Paul identifies Christ as the Yahweh whom Deuteronomy 6:4 says
http://www.reformedapologeticsministries.com/2015/09/a-critique-of-shabir-allys-debate_16.html APR
one, and also MAY
acknowledges that
👤 ⍰❎
5 captures
Arminian)
- Is Original Sin Biblical?
the Apostle taught that Jesus is God that came down and humbled himself. 26 f 🐦
(Keith Thompson vs. Two
Pelagians)
- Does the New Testament
Teach the Deity of Jesus? Ally must have also forgotten the third question he had asked Dr. James R. White during the cross-examination period of their
(Keith Thompson vs. Yuratchka debate in Pretoria, South Africa:
the Arian)
- Does Scripture Teach
Predestination? (Keith
Thompson vs. Arminian - very “Now you cited the Carmen Christi from Philippians chapter 2 where Paul IS OBVIOUSLY REFERRING TO THE
short) BOOK OF ISAIAH CHAPTER 45. Now are you aware that Paul HAS ACTUALLY TAKEN A REFERENCE TO
YAHWEH AND THEN MADE THAT A REFERENCE TO JESUS, and so he has in fact here modified the original belief
ARTICLES in one God Yahweh, AND NOW HE HAS MADE JESUS THIS YAHWEH. And if Jesus is this Yahweh then how could
Islam Yahweh be Father, Son and Holy Ghost, because in that case Jesus is not part of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? You have
Yahweh who is Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and then you have Jesus. Explain that.” (Did the Earliest Followers of Jesus
- A Definitive Look at the Believe in His Deity?; emphasis ours)
James White Yasir Qadhi
Controversy
- The Reliability of the Gospel
of John It must have further slipped Ally’s mind the answer he gave to Dr. White when the latter cross-examined him:
- Comprehensive Case Jesus
Died by Crucifixion
- Are the Gospels too late and
Unreliable?
- Original Sources the Koran “Now in Paul using this hymn, and representing Jesus in this way, we can see that he has actually departed from the OT,
Stole its Stories from because he has taken an OT passage that referred to Yahweh and he has made that refer to Jesus. He is now departing from
- The Corruption of the Koran: that original commandment which says you shall have no other god but Yahweh. Clearly Jesus was a human being, and the
Evidence and New Research book of Numbers chapter 23 verse 19, it says God is not a man and not the son of man. So if Jesus is a man to all
- Muhammad Taught and appearances, well then, you cannot take him to be god, he cannot be Yahweh, he is not Yahweh. And by taking him to be
Practiced Offensive Jihad somehow Yahweh, AS PAUL IS NOW DOING IN HIS LETTER, even in a tantalizing way, Paul is actually departing
- Are Muhammad and Islam
from the OT scripture.”
Predicted in the Bible?
- Errors in the Koran and
Ahadith
- Evidence Muhammad was
Demon Possessed So according to Ally, the blessed Apostle of the risen Lord not only identifies Jesus as Yahweh, but also applied the following
- Jesus as God Before Paul monotheistic passage about Yahweh,
- Some Absurd and Silly
Teachings of Muhammad
- Refuting Bart Ehrman’s
“Passion Contradictions”
“For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it,
Muslims Parrot
he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. I have not spoken in secret, in
- Jesus Sent for Jews Only?:
a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare
Answering Muslims
- 20 Reasons to Never Join things that are right. Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no
Islam knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. Tell ye, and bring them near;
- Is Christianity a Religion of yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I
Peace? the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye
- Who Wrote the Gospels? saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my
Internal and External mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.” Isaiah 45:18-
Arguments for Traditional 23
Authorship
- Answering Sami Zaatari on
the Pharisaic Accusation that
Christ Claimed Deity
- A Case for the Deity of Christ To the worship that every creature must render to Christ in acknowledgment of his being the Lord whom God the Father exalted
in Light of Muslim Objections above all creation!
- The Historical Case for Paul's
Apostleship: And a Critique of
Muslim Arguments
- Muhammad's Condition in “Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus
Light of the Biblical
every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should
Description of Demonic
confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” Philippians 2:9-11
Possession
- Christ’s Deity in Light of not
Knowing the Day & Hour of
His Return
- Daniel 7:13-14 and Christ’s Now which Ally should we believe? The one who denies that the Apostles and earliest disciples identified Jesus as Yahweh God,
Deity: Answering Ibn Anwar’s even when they applied OT Yahweh texts to Christ? Or should we go with the Ally who candidly admits that Paul and the early
Eisegesis Christians who composed hymns which the Apostle included in his writings, such as the Carmen Christi, all believed and worshiped
- The Historicity of the Jesus as Yahweh and as the God who came down and humbled himself to become a man?
Appearance to the 500 in 1
Corinthians 15:6
- Muslim Misuse of Hebrews
5:7: Does This Verse Teach
Jesus Never Died? More importantly, what does this say about Ally’s willingness to blatantly contradict himself, even within the same debate? Doesn’t
- Ibn Anwar’s False Charge of this prove that Ally has no problem with being inconsistent, in fact deceptive, if and when it helps him win a debate? And yet what
Anachronistic Error: An does this say about Islam itself when its very own faithful adherents and apologists have to resort to lying and trickery in order to
Exegetical Examination of convince people to become Muslims?
Mark 2:26
5 captures
- Ibn Anwar’s False Charge of 26 f 🐦
Anachronistic Error: An
Exegetical Examination of
Finally, should it really come as a shock that Ally would be so inconsistent when the Quran describes Allah as a conniver and
Mark 2:26, Part 2
trickster who changes his mind and contradicts himself, just as the following articles and rebuttals prove?
- Jesus as Divine Judge: A
Response to the Muhammedan
Site “Do Not Say Trinity”
- Bart Ehrman: A Hero For
Islam? Contradictions in the Qur'an
- Is Asking “Where did Jesus
say, ‘I am God’” a Good
Argument?
- Revisiting “Where Did Jesus Abrogation?
Say ‘I am God’" A Response to
the Muhammedan Site “Do Not
Say Trinity"
- Contra Paul Williams on the
Death Penalty for Apostasy & Allah as a Deceiver
Christianity
- Heaven vs. Jannah: Assessing
the Dilemma
- Does Muhammad Pass the 1 Allah – The Greatest Deceiver of them All
John 4 Prophethood Test?
- Historical and Biblical Basis
for the Trinity
- Five Reasons Why Jesus is
After all, the kind of deity you worship and serve will often impact the kind of person you end up becoming.
Not Merely a Prophet
- Answering “Jesus isn’t God
because God doesn’t change”
Catholicism Therefore, since Allah boasts about being the best of all deceivers who doesn’t mind or hesitate to use lies and schemes to get his
way and/or to accomplish his purposes, then why should it surprise us that Ally would resort to employing the very same kind of
- Absence of Papal Views tactics that his own deity uses in order to win debates?
Among the Earliest Christians
- The Assumption of Mary is
Unbiblical and Ahistorical
- Justification is by Faith
Alone: Issues and Evidence It seems that in Islam the ends do justify the means.
- Did Roman Catholicism Give
Protestants the Bible?
- Are Roman Catholics Saved?
- Refutation of Papal There is more to come in the next segment of our examination.
Infallibility
- Biblical Evidence Against
Peter being Pope Posted by Keith Thompson at 10:35 AM
- Does Matthew 16 Teach Peter
was the Pope?
- Do John 21:15-17 and Luke No comments:
22:31-32 prove Peter was
Pope? Post a Comment
- Biblical Evidence for Sola
Scriptura
- Refuting Rome's Biblical Case
for Extrabiblical Tradition
- The Early Church Fathers
Taught Sola Scriptura
- The Bible does not teach
Mary's Immaculate Conception
- Mary is not the Ark and
Tabernacle
- The Early Church did not
Believe Rome’s Doctrine of the
Immaculate Conception of
Mary
-Mary is not Co-redemptrix,
Mediatrix of all Graces, and
Advocate
- Some of Roman Catholicism's
worst Atrocities and
Abominations of History
- Baptismal Regeneration &
Justification are False
- Refuting the Catholic
Priesthood and Penance Newer Post Home Older Post
- Proof the Roman Catholic
Mass is unbiblical and anti- Subscribe to: Post Comments (Atom)
Christian
- Historical Examination of
Roman Catholic Eucharist
Theology
- Biblical and Historical
Refutation of Purgatory
5 captures
- Refutation of Inclusivism: 26 f 🐦
Non-Christians can not be
saved by works
- “Works” and “Works of the
Law” in Paul: Interacting with
Modern Catholic Reliance on
New Perspectivism
-Peter Dimond’s Not-So-
Stunning Acts 15 Video
-Peter Dimond LIED about
dikaiosune - Plus Debate
Challenge
- Responding to
catholicapologetics.info’s
“Some Tough Questions for
Protestants”
- Is The Jewish Apocrypha
Inspired Scripture? Pt. 1
- Appendix: Addressing Some
Arguments in Support of the
Apocrypha
Other
- Did the NT Use Eyewitness

Sources for its Information
about Jesus?
- Are Christians Under the Law
of Moses?
- Hitler's Darwinian Motive for
Mass Murder
- An Historical Case for
Christ's Resurrection
- The Bible and Slavery:
Answering “Atheists”
- Failure of False Religions to
Account for Human Experience
-Youtube Pelagian Sinless
Perfection Cult Redefines Sin
-Whalid Shoebat’s Son’s
“Christian Militancy” Teaching
Refuted
- The Bible Teaches Original
Sin
- Jeffrey Daugherty’s “Apostle
Paul Antichrist” Theory
Debunked
- Jesus' Imputed Righteousness:
An Exegetical Case
- Refutation of Jesse Morrell’s
Documentary “Beyond
Augustine”
- Refutation of Jesse Morrell's
Documentary "Beyond
Augustine" Part 2
Click here for Sam

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2/9/2019 Reformed Apologetics Ministries: A Critique of Shabir Ally’s Debate Tactics Pt.

ABOUT Wednesday, September 16, 2015

My name is Keith Thompson. I A Critique of Shabir Ally’s Debate Tactics Pt. 1b

- Black Hebrew Israelites

- Did the NT Use Eyewitness

Click here for Sam

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