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August 20, 2016

MUDDENAHALLI FRAUD AND SCAM,


TALK BY LEONARDO PABLO GUTTER

The topic for today is “Reflecting the Glow of the Light of Truth,” but the core of
the talk I wanted to give on this occasion is to try and clarify what is going on in
Muddenahalli. I’ll share with you a few points, and then we’ll open a space for
questions and answers.

I would like to begin by making it very clear that Swami left His body by His own
will. I’ve had the opportunity to talk with several people whom Swami had told –
three years earlier, one year earlier, six months earlier– that He would leave His
body.

I even talked with Satyajit, who was Sai Baba’s personal assistant and who lived
with Him for many years, the one who was physically closest to Swami and who
served him personally, and Swami has also told him that He would leave His body.
At the moment when Swami told him, Satyajit asked Him to please not say
anything more. I talked to the one who was (an officer) in the Central Trust of
India, who is currently running all the institutions that Swami left. But there is also
another very important Trust in India, as important as the Central Trust, which is
the one in Bombay, which had a trustee –a founder– and another trustee who was
Swami, and this person, both of them from the beginning. And Swami had told
this person practically a year earlier that He would leave His body; He talked quite
a bit about it with this person. So, Swami did not fall ill all of a sudden. He did not
have a physical problem that caused Him to fall ill as a mortal being, but rather He
was perfectly aware, He had decided much earlier that He would leave his body.

Swami’s leaving His body when He did, and even if He had left it when He was 95
or 96 years’ old, would have made no difference. It is a shock for all of Sai Baba’s
devotees, it is a shock for spiritual aspirants who have a spiritual master, who are
used to being able to see Him, hand Him a letter, ask Him for something, ask Him
some questions, ask Him for blessings, and they cannot even travel to India.
Feeling the physical presence of the Master is a support that cannot be described in
words. And obviously the shock of losing that support, that physical presence, is
enormous and it is understandable that many people resort to various ways of
alleviating that anguish. I expect all of you have received an email with this article
called “Shining the Light of Truth”. I brought it in English; I didn’t print the
Spanish version. I would like you to read it carefully because it clearly explains the
lies about what is going on in Muddenahalli. Swami has repeated many times, and
I believe you must have read it in your books, that He would never use any
medium or intermediary. What happens in Muddenahalli is that there is one
person who claims he is the only one who can see and hear Swami in His subtle
body, and that he is the only intermediary of communication between this subtle
body and the devotees.

If you are on a spiritual path and are beyond an emotional sensation, emotional
devotion, and we have learned something about Sri Sathya Sai Baba’s teachings
and the great spiritual masters, you have to know an important fact and we’ll begin
with that.

When a person dies, both the physical and the subtle body disintegrate. A subtle
body does not continue to exist, just like a physical body does not continue to exist
either. Both disintegrate. What is left in the case of normal human beings is an
atom of what we would call the mind; what is left there is the mental body. All the
vasanas, the latent tendencies from all past lives, the DNA of our soul, as it were,
are recorded in that atom of the mental body. That atom of the mental body begins
a journey.

We will talk about what death is. Death is the same as when we fall asleep at night,
there is no difference. There is no difference between dying and sleeping. In fact,
there is only ONE difference: that the following morning we do not wake up in the
physical body. That is the only difference. But the moment of dying is similar to
falling asleep every evening: the physical body remains lying in bed while the
Being becomes activated, consciousness enters the astral plane and subsequently
higher planes. Has anyone of you ever dreamt that you were flying? You have?
We fly every night, the only difference being that some of us remember and others
don’t. Has anyone of you, especially when you were younger, felt that you fell
backward when you fell asleep? That fall is felt because the subtle, astral body
leaves the physical body and suddenly something wakes it up and brings it back.
Instead of returning slowly, it returns very quickly. It is this feeling of falling
backward as in a roller-coaster, because the astral body falls straight back into the
physical body. That is why one feels that dizzying fall. At death, one also leaves
the body and the astral plane (what we would call the subtle body) is activated.
There it disappears, it goes to other planes, other levels of consciousness are
activated –mental, subtle plus causal– until the soul remains in that causal plane
until the time comes when it is born again. On that causal plane, first the mental
body is formed, then an astral body is formed, and then (as the Vedas say) the soul
goes to a raindrop, the rain falls on the food, on the plant, which enters the father’s
body as food, from there it passes to the seminal fluid and then enters the mother.
Such is the path of the soul from the causal plane to the physical body.

But all this digression is to tell you that a subtle body does not continue to exist.
That is another great piece of foolishness of those who…. it’s so absurd, so
incredibly absurd. Not only is it absurd to think that people who were close to
Swami when He was in His physical body would lie in this way. It is equally
absurd that aspirant devotees should believe it. For example, let us talk about the
“subtle body,” in quotation marks because what really happens with the Avatar,
with God, is that God is omnipresent. He is here now, He is here beside me, in
front of me, behind me; there is not an inch where He is not. What happens is that
Sri Sathya Sai Baba used to say, “You look to me, I look to you.” Being aware that
He is here is what it’s all about. When we are not aware that He is here, it is as if
He was not, but He is. But as I don’t pay attention to Him because I’m paying
attention to the TV, or to the newspaper or to any TV series, I fail to pay attention
to become aware of that presence. The more illuminated being is aware of the
presence and lives in the constant presence of God, in the omnipresence of God,
because he is aware of the reality of God, that God is everywhere at all times.
Therefore, God is cosmic energy; He is everywhere at all times. He does not
travel by car from one place to another. These things we see are so absurd, so
absurd that they are pitiful. For example, they move Swami’s subtle body in a car.
They had a devotee buy a car and spend USD $80,000 or $100,000 for Swami to
travel in a subtle body, and the devotee purchased it.

Does a subtle body need a car to travel? If we had the ability to concentrate we
would say “Swami,” and Swami is here. We could see Him. He would not come by
car or by plane. Isn’t that so? If these people at Muddenahalli were consistent,
when they buy first-class or business class tickets in any country, they would have
to buy a seat for Swami, wouldn’t they? And have a seat reserved for Him, given
that He has to travel by car in Muddenahalli, from His home to where the devotees
are. Why don’t they buy Him a plane ticket, then? They don’t buy Him a plane
ticket, there He does not need a vehicle, in Muddenahalli He does.

Another extraordinary piece of foolishness: they place Swami’s bedroom in that


building and say, “We placed the window so it looks over the airport, so that
Swami can have a view of the airport.” Does God need a window to look at a
particular place? A bathroom? Is there a subtle body that needs to go to the
bathroom? Does a subtle body need to take a shower? If you answer, “Yes,” than
I’m wrong. Isn’t that so? But see how absurd, how grotesque everything these
people say and do is. And, most incredibly, many long-standing devotees are not
aware of it. They continue to be caught up in such a bizarre thing. Let’s turn to
another issue. We’ll start by the end.

One could say, “No, if the subtle body exists –which is not true– but we’ll pretend
it exists, and that person, Madhusudhan alone can see it and no one else on planet
Earth can hear and communicate with Him. There’s one thing that Swami will
never do, and that is to go against His principles, against His teachings. I do not
believe that Swami, who spent all His life, 71 years since He announced that He
was Sai Baba, since before then, He practiced vegetarianism and gave His
teachings, well, since He was 2 or 3 years’ old. But He always taught the same
thing. I used to read Swami’s books a lot. There is not a single book where Swami
says one thing and contradicts it later. The principles are always the same: “Be
good, live righteously.” Once He told me, “Swami will never ask for money.”
Many years ago, I used to sit for darshan and one day He stopped by me and said
“Swami will never solicit money.” You understand? I said, “Yes, Swami,” and
the darshan continued. Why did Swami do that? Perhaps only so that today I may
be talking to you and say, “Swami will never solicit money.” And these people go
around like beggars claiming that “Swami is beside me and says that,” To a
devotee he said, “Sell your home and give me money for the hospital.” Or they are
traveling to different places to meet rich donors to solicit money from them.

Swami said there are four principles that a spiritual aspirant should follow:
no alcohol or drugs, no smoking, no meat eating and no gambling. He said
that a spiritual aspirant cannot do any of these four things. About gambling He
added that the one who wins at gambling has a very bad karma, because what he
wins is at the expense of the losers’ pain. He said that no spiritual aspirant should
gamble. However, now Isaac Tigrett is claiming that Swami, through
Madhusudhan Naidu, told him to open a casino in Las Vegas. Do you understand?
Can Swami have ever said that? Let’s forget everything else. Is Swami ever going
to say to a person, “Open a casino in Las Vegas?” And as if that were not
enough, “To take light where there is darkness; obviously, funds are collected for
good deeds.” Did Swami ever tell you, “Means don’t matter?” Steal. Steal, and
give the proceeds of stealing for charity. Can Swami ever have said that? Before
Swami left His physical body, someone donated 100 million dollars to Him. A
100 million dollars donation from a devotee. Swami rejected it because it was
ill-gotten money. One of the four people leading Muddenahalli took the
money. Swami expelled him from his house and from the ashram.
And he was one of the persons closest to Swami, was the person Swami had put in
charge of the Bangalore hospital when it was built; he was in contact with all the
rich donors, that’s why they (at Muddenahalli) know who the donors are, due to
this person who was in charge of seeking them out. And when this person took the
money, for works obviously, Swami expelled him from his house and from the
ashram. Therefore, tell me, can Swami tell anyone to open a casino in Las
Vegas? Can Swami do that? I believe that this is enough to realize that the
whole thing is a terrible lie.

Because if Madhusudhan comes here and wants to tell the story of my life, I say,
“Aha, yes, you’re right.” And then he says, “Swami says you should go and steal,”
I’m going to say “Get out of here.” Look, when the whole thing started, they called
Dr. Goldstein for interviews. Dr. Goldstein himself told me this. He had distanced
himself from the Sai Organization; he resigned from his position as President of
the Prashanti Council, and is a member of the World Trust. Then the people at
Muddenahalli called him and offered him the position that Chakravarti had with
Swami, as Secretary. When Swami was in His physical body, the highest position
in the World Organization was that of Chakravarti, it was not the Central Trust, it
was Chakravarti. We could say that he was Swami’s Private Secretary. Everything
went through him. He would talk with Swami every day, in the morning, at
midday, in the evening. Swami would give him all the instructions. He was the
person closest to Swami. They offered Goldstein the position of Chakravarti.
He had two interviews with Madhusudhan. He came out of there and said,
“It’s all a lie.”

Madhusudhan, that is, ‘Swami’ through Madhusudhan, told him things that were
not true. He told him, for example, to go to the US and open a hospital in Ohio.
“You know Ohio very well; you lived in Ohio for many years.” Swami never lived
in Ohio. So, in spite of the position offered to him, which would have meant
Madhusudhan, Narasimha Murthy and Goldstein, through which Goldstein would
have obtained fame and recognition and a position of authority –if he had wanted
to– he left and said “No, it’s a lie.” He told me that himself. All of this, then, is
based on an incredible lie. But beyond this, if Madhusudhan comes to Buenos
Aires (they say he is coming on October) and stands before me and tells me
anything about my life, whether because he can read my mind or has learned about
my story through someone in the ashram, but if he says a single thing against
Swami’s will, it is false. That’s what they are doing all the time. They are going
around all the time soliciting money as beggars.
And one more point is this: Swami said we are born not to be born again. Right?
He said the purpose of life is not to be born again. Do you remember that? In one
of Madhusudhan’s first discourses as a channel, he said, “You will be born again
and again with me, life after life to be with me,” and continued to praise the people
who had made donations, “These people who made donations are saints, great
seers from past lives, great elevated beings who are coming here to give money.”
Did you ever see Swami praise a donor? Did you ever hear Him praise the donors?
This is all so absurd, so absurd. I know several devotees who are now following
Madhusudhan and say they are very happy because one of them had an interview
which he could never get when Swami was alive and now at last he had it. Such
ingenuity!

One more point, about Isaac Tigrett’s discourse where he claims that Swami told
him to open a casino. When I was informed of this discourse, that it was in
YouTube, they sent me the link, and I watched and listened to the discourse. I
watched two sessions, because the entire Christmas celebration was in two
sessions. The first one contained Isaac Tigrett’s discourse in the large hall they
have over there. He practically does not even pretend anymore when he does
padnamaskar to the chair where in theory the subtle body is. Alright, I put up with
that discourse by Isaac Tigrett and then the second video, the Christmas celebration
and all the festivities they had prepared.

I saw it, thousands of people saw it. What did the Muddenahalli people do when
they became aware of it? They took this video out of YouTube. Do you think that
is correct? If they are proclaiming something, if they believe it, they cannot, when
they realize they have done something wrong, take it out of YouTube. That’s
having a guilty conscience, isn’t it? I saw it. Thousands of people saw it. But I put
up with it and watched it. However, many people say, “It cannot be so, it’s a lie.”

A brother from the south was also told it was a lie and that he should find out. He
talked with a lady devotee of Madhusudhan –I’m not going to talk about the subtle
body or about Swami– a lady devotee of Madhusudhan who asked Isaac Tigrett,
and he confirmed to her that it was true. If no one believes me, I can’t give the
name of this devotee because I was asked not to disclose it, but I recognize her
very well, she has said it and reconfirmed it later. And I saw it, just as thousands of
people have seen it; when the saw it they called me and sent me emails saying,
“See this.” Such hypocrisy! If I say something, I’m not going to feel shame about it
later, nor will I hide it. Isn’t it? But tell me something, is this Dharma? Is it
Dharma to say to open a casino in Las Vegas? It’s as if tomorrow I were to say,
“Swami told me to open a whorehouse, but it’s going to be a Sai whorehouse.”
And the girls’ hygiene will be taken care of. It’s the same; there is no difference at
all. Can Swami ever say that? Open casinos, open a whorehouse. Who knows what
he’s going to say tomorrow. “Come in and steal,” as I said before. It’s all for a
good cause. I’ll finish and then we’ll pass on to questions and answers. Therefore, I
would like you to carefully read this document, because it contains Swami’s
statements and then what Madhusudhan’s people say.

Another issue mentioned in this document is that Madhusudhan was a member of a


solar energy company, the director of this company, which by chance happened to
supply solar energy to all the buildings being constructed in Muddenahalli. All
construction work is done with this company. He and several people who are
managing Muddenahalli are members of this company. As soon as all this began
they removed his name. Why was he removed? If he was member director of this
company, why should they hide him? That’s an adharmic attitude. I can’t say “I do
something and then I hide so that no one will know.” You understand? Everything
is plagued by Adharma. But it’s not only plagued by Adharma. Let’s go back to the
beginning. Let’s forget about everything being plagued by Adharma. Let’s forget
that they are contradicting Swami’s teachings. As if Swami had said, “Never forget
the prashad from Puttaparthi.” He promised His mother and gave her His word.
And Swami says, “Never go against your word even if it costs you your life.” Do
you know why Swami said that? He once said, “It’s better to lose one’s life than to
go against one’s word.” Do you know this? This is what He said many times. And
Swami said, “I gave my word to my mother.” Is He now going to go against His
word, and leave Puttaparthi for Muddenahhhalli telling people not to go to
Puttaparthi? He said in a discourse after His 60th birthday that He was now going
to teach Advaita. He gave very many discourses about Advaita. Now the
Muddenahalli people are saying that Prashanti was like primary school and only
now in Muddenahalli they are passing to secondary school. One contradiction after
the other, with what Swami said, not with the interpretations. One can say –one
interprets– and someone else has another interpretation. This is Swami’s word.
We’re trying to compile the videos where Swami gave this, because if some do not
believe in the books which were published when He was in His physical body, they
can see it in the videos. These are the teachings, repeating and repeating the
teachings He came to give to humanity. The teachings are sacred, they are the
Truth. Nobody can now come and say, “Swami’s subtle body came to say
something else.” Now He came to say the opposite of what He used to say. How
He came to authorize casinos. Now He came to say that we have to be born again
and again and again a lot of times to be close to him.
Anil Kumar one day dared say to Swami, “Swami, I want to be born again to be
with You in my next life.” And Swami asked him to leave, scolded him and said,
“How dare you say that? How is it that you want to be born again? You have
understood nothing of what I came to teach. You have come here not to be born
again. You didn’t come to want to be born again. If we are born again, it’s because
we failed in this life, only because of that.” Does anyone want to fail? If someone
says, “I want to fail,” I’ll tell them, “Go and see a psychiatrist, or a psychologist.”
Because wanting to fail is quite a significant psychological disturbance. It’s almost
masochism. We all want to succeed. Isn’t it? Am I wrong? Well, wanting to be
born again is like wanting to fail, because if we are born again it’s because we had
no other chance. But if someone works towards being born again he is a fool. Or
he understood nothing about spirituality. And these people, Madhusudhan and
Narasimha Murthy, are conveying these ideas that are contrary to Swami’s
teachings. The question is why? What is their intention? Is there an intention to
get fame, power, and money? Or is there absolute ignorance, or who knows what?
Or is there a mental disturbance? I don’t believe there is something else. Mental
disturbance, ignorance, or a desire for power, fame and money. There are no other
motives. I know many versions of why Narasimha Murthy began all this campaign.
I know why he began all this issue of Muddenahalli. It’s because he wanted
something but he didn’t get it, then he left, quite offended, and began this entire
story. I also know many things about Madhusudhan, that as a student he was
not very honest. But beyond what Narasimha Murthy and Madhusudhan may
have been, have done or not done, because we all make mistakes, and I knew
Narasimha Murthy well; I always talked to him, it couldn’t be better because he
seemed to be an exemplary devotee, an exemplary person, but in my opinion he
became insane because he can’t be doing what he is doing, he can’t be dividing the
Organization.

I want to tell you something that I do know. Swami’s hospitals, schools, and
universities are run out of a fund. When money was raised to make the hospital in
Prashanti Nilayam, the first hospital, money was collected, a campaign was made
by the devotees –Swami did not intervene at all– just like when this house was
bought. This house was bought not because Swami came to ask for money from
anybody. We were at the Center located on Paraguay Street, and the rental
agreement could not be renewed. Do you know the story? From one day to another
our landlady refused to renew the rental agreement. And paying the rent every
month was very difficult. Swami had to make efforts every month for the money to
appear. When they told us they would not renew the rental agreement any more,
we starting looking for a place. I don’t know why, in my thinking that inspired in
me the idea of buying a house. I don’t know why, because we could hardly scrape
together the money to pay the rent, let alone to buy. And I started talking with
some devotees. Basically I asked them, “Can you collaborate?” And these
devotees said, “Yes, yes, yes!” And we found this house, which was a vehicle
repair shop. It had two pits for fixing cars. The Sai Organization is a car repair
workshop; it repairs cars which are our minds. That’s how it was bought. The same
happened with the hospital.

Swami said it and in actual fact there was an action by the devotees, initiated by a
devotee from Japan, Hira, for the water project. But in fact in the case of the
hospital it was more spontaneous. When the first hospital was built there was a
donation from many devotees, not only from Isaac Tigritt; he donated a significant
part, but the rest came from a large number of devotees. The funds were raised and
one half was used for the hospital and the other half was placed in a bank and the
interest would be used for maintaining the hospital. Swami said and determined
that one half would be used for all building works and the other half would be
placed in a fund and interest would be used for maintaining the hospital. You know
that the rupee depreciates. When I used to go to India eight rupees were worth 1.60
dollar, it’s not like here but it also depreciates.

And to be able to maintain the hospital out of the fund, if it had to be maintained
only with that fund, at the rate of depreciation and inflation in India, then there
would be enough only for a few years’ maintenance. From time to time a donor
appears and collaborates; Swami inspires a donor and thus it continues to be
maintained. And what happens with Madhusudhan now? They went over to all
the devotees who collaborated asking them to go and build other hospitals and
other schools, and they stopped the donations to Swami’s hospitals. Swami
always said that was his legacy. Does it make sense to make one more school, or
one more hospital and to close Swami’s legacy? Does it make any sense if one
says, “Well, I’ll make five million hospitals or 10 million hospitals so that there are
hospitals in every country in the world, OK, but in order to make one or two more
I’ll close Swamis’ hospital, the free super specialty hospital located in a very poor
area? Or more schools?

There are hundreds of Sathya Sai schools, hundreds of them. Should I ask to stop
donating in order to make one more school? Therefore, they are seriously
affecting Swami’s legacy. I have the possibility to meet with the Central Trust
of India and we are told by the Prashanti Council that the actual economic
situation is quite stressful. And how many fewer devotees are going to
Prashanti, how many fewer donations are made, how maintenance is actually
affected, because nobody makes money there from maintaining Swami’s works;
and these people from Muddenahalli continue hunting for money and
traveling to every country in this beggars’ campaign, visiting wealthy people
to solicit money. Indeed, they approach wealthy people to solicit money from
them. One of these people, whom I know very well, I had a close relationship with
him and visited his home in his country. When I go to Prashanti I have to go and
have dinner with him because he asks me all the time to visit him. A real close
relationship. And he told me the whole story. Not only did he tell me everything.
When they left they continued insisting by email.

And he sent me a copy of the emails they sent him. They insisted, “Give me
money. Give me money.” “You haven’t given me money yet?” Is this by any
chance the Swami you knew? This is the Swami who speaks through
Madhusudhan. And I can guarantee you that it is not the Swami I knew in
Prashanti Nilayam. It’s totally the opposite. It’s a pity that many devotees who are
devotees of Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba fall into this confusion, into this
hallucination, into this illusion, into this deceit.

They are very likely to go there, to Muddenahalli, because it is a spiritual place


where people believe that Swami is, and they are going to have great spiritual
experiences because if one believes that Swami is there, Swami is everywhere.
And if they sing bhajans there, you know that all the students at Muddenahalli, of
the Muddenahalli campus –this campus belongs to the Central Trust, it depends on
Swami’s University, the Sathya Sai Institute of Higher Learning–go to Prashanti
for all the celebrations, Sports Day, graduation day, they graduate in Prashanti. The
students are Swami’s students. But the campus was taken over. There is an
ongoing court trial now in India because the campus belongs to the Central
Trust. Narasimha Murthy took over the campus and the Central Trust initiated a
legal action because it is as if you had a house, and someone else comes along and
says “Now it’s mine.” Do you understand? And they changed the By-laws of the
Trust that was running this. There is a very important legal action in India
against the people in Muddenahalli. And now, after I don’t know how many
times, five, six, seven or ten times [summons], Narasimha Murthy deigned to go to
court. The point is that he is affecting Swami’s work and legacy. The way they
took possession of the place that didn’t belong to them is adharmic. However,
people can go to Muddenahalli and have a great, beautiful spiritual experience
because it is a place where all of Swami’s devotees are, where they sing to Swami
and where the people believe that Swami is sitting in the front. He is everywhere.
If you sing here and you sing to the altar with emotion, you will feel Swami’s
presence, you’ll be filled with joy and happiness. Because then everybody is going
to have the experience.

But this does not mean that this fabrication that Swami’s subtle body
communicates only through Madhusudan is true. This is false. Swami always
said “My relationship is from heart to heart.” He does not choose only one
intermediary. He speaks to us; it is us who have to be able to listen to Him and feel
His presence. But if we don’t want to listen or feel, if we stick to saying, “Ah, he is
the intermediary,” this speaks of our innocence, of the fact that we are still in
the kindergarten, not even in the primary school of the spiritual path.

But Swami has come to make us pass from one grade to the next and the next.
When you go to school, what do you have? We went to kindergarten, to primary
school, secondary school; we have books, teachings, there is a curriculum, right?
There are teachings so that when we get to the second grade we are given a course
in preparation to pass on to the third grade. Then we are given a course to pass on
to the fourth grade. Swami’s teachings are the courses He has given us to move
forward on our spiritual path. That’s the goal we have to achieve. We have to
manage and move further and further ahead until we graduate. This means to wake
up and become aware that God is in our heart and everywhere, and that everything
is God.

That’s what it means to graduate. Everything is God at all times. Do you


understand? The question in the final exam, when you’re going to graduate is,
“And…?” And the answer is, “God is everywhere at all times, all the time. There is
nothing that is not God.” Passed! Approved! This is what we have not only to
repeat, but to actually realize it. Say it with the realization that we became aware.
This is what Swami led us to. Not to stay on in kindergarten and stay on in this
story which He taught us himself: “The physical body dies, and the subtle body
disintegrates.”

So we heard it from Swami, and then someone comes and says, “No, I
communicate with the subtle body.” “But Swami says something different.” “It
doesn’t matter, ignore it.” “But Swami told me I had to go only…” “It doesn’t
matter; open a casino in Las Vegas.” We’re going to open a casino here in Buenos
Aires. Why not? Benefit from the money of those who work to earn it and then
lose it, you see? Casinos, gambling, are a form of stealing. It’s a way to obtain
money with the sorrow of those who lost it. Right?
It’s a way of saying: well, I’ll go to the casino and have two alternatives. Either
losing or getting robbed, or being an accomplice in the robbery. The one who robs,
the owner of the casino, says, “I’m going to rob so that this works. But from time
to time I’ll share the proceeds of my robberies with one of you so that you keep on
coming.” That’s the agreement. I’m the one who robs, and need some
accomplices. All those going to the casino then are accomplices, and the one who
wins is more of an accomplice. Because the winner gives the illusion to the other
unfortunate ignorant people that some time they will win, so they keep on going to
the casino.

Going to the casino is a vice, just like drugs. It’s wrong. That’s why Swami said,
“No drugs, no alcohol, no smoking, no meat eating, no gambling.” Right? It is
one of the four great sins. Did Swami ever say, “Go ahead and sin?” He said,
“Don’t sin anymore.” The important point, then, is to understand how what is said
there betrays Swami’s teachings. Betraying Swami’s teachings, means
betraying Swami. By betraying Swami, he can’t be Swami. This is what we
want to share. We are not dealing with a competition between Prashanti Nilayam
and Muddenahalli. There is no competition in any sense. Right? What is there to
win if more devotees go to Prashanti? I’m not charging for anything. It’s not as if I
said, “Now there are a million devotees, tomorrow there will be two million.” Did I
win anything? I won nothing. I’m doing all this as a service. I feel it is my way of
doing service so that we can all move ahead in our spiritual path, although I can
understand –and I want to share it– that the first thing I understood is that Swami is
an Avatar, that He is a true manifestation of God who has come to tell us the Truth.
All my life since I was nine years old I asked myself, “What is Truth?” “What is
Reality?”

Suddenly Sai Baba appeared in my life and told me, “This is Reality.” And since
that moment I have wanted to share it. When I was returning from my first trip to
India, what I did from the very first moment was to share the Truth I heard from
the manifestation of God. There’s no other story. The reason for all my
annoyance at Muddenahalli, then, is that they are betraying the Truth
brought by the Avatar. Swami came to help humanity to wake up, to take a leap
forward. Swami did not come to build hospitals or schools. He did not come for
that at all. Because there are already hospitals and schools in place. Right? He
didn’t even come to distribute food under Narayana Seva programs. He came to
wake up humanity. He came to raise humanity to a higher level of consciousness.
To help all human beings evolve. That was Swami’s purpose. That’s what He
really came for. Now if someone comes and contradicts what Swami said, who
makes people regress rather than progress, they are working for the Devil, not
for God. Right? Because every meritorious action is what makes one person help
another to come closer to God. And every sin is what delays someone from coming
closer to God, from waking up to the Truth, what slows him down and delays him.

That is sinful, while the opposite is meritorious. Sin does not help God, it helps the
opposite. Every correct action helps God. And when someone is teaching the
opposite of what Swami said, they are working for people to regress, rather
than progress. That is doing harm, not good. When they take advantage of
people’s good faith, they are doing twice as much harm.

So, the same reason that made me want to share what I learned from Swami since
the first day is what makes me be here today to tell you that what is happening in
Muddenahalli is not only false, but it is dangerous. It is the opposite of what
Swami has said, totally the opposite. Watch out because they are saying such
subtle things, and others not so subtle, which are totally different from
Swami’s teachings.

Then, you have not come to be born again and again and again. You have not come
to be praised by Swami. Practically no one was praised by Swami. He scolded us
to help us move ahead. I was very often slapped on the face and scolded. And He
made me progress in this way. There was one period when He scolded me. He used
to come out for darshan and would call me, “Animal” and would tell the others,
“He’s an animal.” And he would scold me in one way or the other. He behaved
like that for a long period. And in this way He helped me become aware that I had
to be less of an animal, and more of a human being. Right? He didn’t come to tell
me, “You are a genius!” Swami didn’t come to tell me, “You’re a saint,” “You’re a
mahatma, a highly evolved being.” He just didn’t do that. He did it to no one. To
no one. Therefore, look, observe, pay attention and you’ll see how many
mistakes and how many distortions and how many betrayals to Swami’s
message there are.

That’s what I wanted to share with you today. I really want you to understand and
transmit it. I would like to ask you to please read this carefully, because there are
many specific examples. There are very many more. There are things that it
would be inappropriate for me to say about the people who are promoting
this, what these people are actually doing. I could go on speaking for another
hour about this, but let’s stick to the facts. That is simply what Swami taught and
what they are saying now. Swami’s teachings are perfect and complete. All the
Vedas, all the teachings by all spiritual masters are perfectly simple, accessible to
our level of comprehension. They not only tell us what Truth is but also how to
reach it. In other words, they tell us exactly what to do. You may read a philosophy
book and say, “What a good philosophy book! I understood very little. How can I
understand more? I have no idea.” But Swami tells us what Truth is, and
specifically what we have to do to realize it, to reach it.

And what does He say? It’s very simple. From the very first day, Truth and
Righteousness. The entire Bhagavad Gita, Krishna’s teaching to Arjuna, to
humanity, is the teaching of what Truth is. Krishna revealed to Arjuna what Truth
is. And what did He tell him? To follow the Truth and to follow Righteousness.
These two things, with Love. That’s all that is needed. We can say that in a
different way. What is this life about? What is it about? It’s only about one thing:
being good, being better every day, and then being better still. Impeccably good.
Better and better and better. It’s not about anything else.

When we are absolutely good, we will wake up. We’re going to be God, who is
absolutely good. It’s about wiping out our stains of selfishness and ignorance,
which make us not good. The entire spiritual path is a path of cleaning up, of
purification, of drawing out.

I’ll tell you an anecdote. For a long time I used to give a talk either on Tuesday or
Wednesday. Does anyone remember? Was it on Tuesday? I would speak about
different topics. I would speak about karma, reincarnation, subtle bodies, about
planes and religions. At one time I went to Prashanti, and one of the people who
attended the talks brought me a sort of manuscript where he had taken the trouble
of transcribing my talks and said to me, “Submit it to Swami to make a book.” I
naturally took it and started browsing through it: when I started looking, I felt
ashamed because it had been transcribed literally. And when you speak and say,
“Um, it’s something like…” It was really appalling, you see? I saw it and said to
myself, “How appalling this is,” but when I saw all the work this devotee had
done, I lacked the courage not to submit it to Swami and I started bringing it along
with me to darshan. One day Swami saw it, called me, grabbed it and looked at me.
He started browsing it. And he browsed, and browsed and browsed, and asked me,
“What is Reality?” He caught me by surprise and all of a sudden, without any
preparation, he asked me, “What is spirituality?” I looked at Him and said, “It’s
going inward, Swami.” He slapped me on the face and said, “No.” He returned the
book to me and said, “This is not necessary, go and sit down.” What a blow to the
ego! He opened my eyes to the truth. First, spirituality is not going inward. What is
spirituality for Swami? I learned it after the slapping: it is to eradicate our negative
qualities. It’s only that. It’s weeding out the garden. To eradicate our negative
qualities. It is the path of eradicating one’s own negative qualities. Can we say in a
different way? It is to purify ourselves. Can we say in a different way? It’s to
become better persons.

It’s the negative qualities that make us bad. Removing them makes us better
persons. Removing them more and more until they can’t be seen anymore, not
even with a magnifying glass, not even with a microscope. When they can’t be
seen even with a microscope, it means there are none left. When the negative
qualities are entirely removed, you automatically start Educare. Educare means
that one does not plant it, it emerges from inside. Why can’t human values come
forth? Because they are covered by negative qualities. The negative qualities are
the stones, the mud, and the soil that cover the water underneath. But if you
remove the mud, the stones, everything, the water was already below. When you
dig a well, you don’t add water to the well. You remove what is on top and the
water is below. It’s the same with human values. You don’t implant them. You
remove what is bad and the values come forth and emerge. That’s what it’s all
about. Spirituality is to eradicate the negative qualities. To finish the story, on that
occasion it took me several days to recover from the blow of “This is not
necessary.” Then came Swami’s birthday. And during His birthday celebrations, I
ended up pushing Swami in His hammock, the ‘jhula’. When Swami would swing
in His hammock in the Poorna Chandra, I was blessed to be allowed to push the
hammock together with Dr. Goldstein. As there were two more devotees, Dr.
Goldstein and I, when everything was finished, all of those who had pushed the
jhula had the opportunity to be close to Swami.

Swami left and sat down in front of the Poorna Chandra to see the fireworks
display. I ended up sitting on a chair behind Swami watching the fireworks.
Imagine what a paradise! When that was over, Swami left for his home and I
would always follow Him. Then those of us who were pushing His chair entered
His house and Swami saw us to the door because He was going to his bedroom.
And before going to His bedroom, He gave us padnamaskar. After He gave me
padnamaskar, I stood up, I looked at Him, and taking advantage of the opportunity,
a question came from my heart and I asked, “Swami, may I write a book?”
Because He had told me that that was not necessary. And He looked at me,
laughed, slapped me on the face again and said, “Yes, but a good one.” The point
is, therefore, that we should be very careful in practicing these specific, simple,
incredibly simple teachings, that we should be impeccably good in all dimensions
of our life.
We actually have to be a witness that is observing us and tells us, “You were a
little selfish,” “There you were very selfish,” “There you criticized someone,”
“There you had negative thoughts about somebody.” Then that little angel who is
here observes us and criticizes us because all of a sudden our ego comes forth,
gossip comes forth, criticism comes forth, all the expressions of our negative
qualities. Therefore, what the spiritual path is all about is to observe oneself and
say to oneself, “No, it’s enough.” I have a habit, sometimes when I wake up to
some of these traits I slap myself on the face, not once but several times, because
it’s not only a question of becoming aware, but of making it last. I’m not saying
you should start slapping yourselves on the face, but what you DO have to do is to
observe yourselves, and avoid hiding whatever it is under the carpet. You should
not be permissive because, “Who are you helping?” It’s as if someone tells a
person “You have to take this medicine to get well.” And the person doesn’t take
it. He deceives his doctor. Actually, he does not deceive his doctor, he missed the
opportunity. Here we are not talking about deceiving Swami, who cannot be
deceived. Because He knows everything, because He is us. Swami knows
everything because He is always looking at us. Because He is us. We are so
amnesic that we have forgotten who we are. But we are our true Being, “I,” ”I,” “
I”, “ I,” nobody says “I,” “I,” “I,” “I,” because we know that our I is inside, a few
centimeters away from our heart, in the shape of a flame half the size of this
thumb. This is the Atma. This is God, who is constantly with us. He knows
everything all the time. There is no thought, no action, no feeling that He doesn’t
know, because He is absolutely conscious. And He is with us all the time. So, how
can we deceive Him? We cannot say, “Look the other way and have a smoke.”
There’s no way, do you understand?

Being on the spiritual path is to become aware of all that and to be unrelenting with
oneself in this change. Well, there are some questions.

Let me ask you a favor. On account of time, make questions, do not give
discourses. Later, I can leave if you want and you can give discourses. But I would
like to try, if I can, to clarify some questions. All right? Do you have any questions
on this subject?

Q: [Inaudible question from the audience.]

A: I don’t have Swami’s power to know.

Q: [Inaudible question from the audience.]


A: They are all good persons. I don’t believe there is any devotee going to
Muddenahalli who is bad, just the opposite. All of Swami’s devotees are spiritual
aspirants, very old souls who, having been worked on for hundreds and hundreds
of lives, have all come to be blessed by having an Avatar as our spiritual master.
To have that blessing we must have done huge efforts in thousands of lives and
therefore they are all very good. None of Sai Baba’s devotees are bad, and none of
those going to Muddenahalli are bad.

Going to Muddenahalli does not mean being bad. They are just confused, and one
is not confused on purpose. They are confused because they want to believe,
because due to their sorrow for not having Swami physically present, part of their
subconscious makes them believe that that is true, to be able to feel that Swami can
still communicate with them and answer questions and help them. They can say, “I
was with Swami and He helped me; He gave me His blessing, I asked Him for
such and such a thing.” They want to believe that they have such support, because
something happened in their mind and they believe. There’s the issue of faith. How
does faith arise? Nobody can know why faith arises. It does because it does. There
are people who have had that experience and who have that faith. Others believe
because they want to; others because they are more confused. There may be very
many motives, and it’s not because they have bad intentions or because they are
doing it on purpose that they follow someone who is doing bad things. No. Out of
their best intentions, they absolutely believe that it is Swami who was in Prashanti
who is there and is speaking to them. And if I believed that, just as when I met
Swami and became an hyperactive militant in disseminating Swami’s teachings all
over the country and all over the neighboring countries, they must be doing that
because they fervently believe that it is true. Therefore, I have no objections to any
of those who are doing that.

They have the same faith as I had in Swami to share and disseminate His
teachings. So they have the best of intentions. The ones I object to are Narasimha
Murthy, Madhusudhan and a couple more whom I know and who are there, who
are the pillars of what they are doing, which is very incorrect. So, how did they get
there? God knows what their karma, the need to believe in them, and their passing
faith, were like. What I CAN say is that what is happening there in
Muddenahalli is not true.

Are you recording this? I have no objection to its being shown and I’m not going
to take it out of YouTube if you put it in YouTube. I’m not going to say, “Now you
should take it out.” Because what I have said, I have said consciously. Another
question?

And I want to insist on this. No follower of Muddenahalli is an enemy of the Sai


Organization. They are not enemies of Prashanti Nilayam or of Swami’s devotees.
Through this talk, let’s hope that Bhagavan Sri Sathya Sai Baba clarifies the role
they are playing so they may stop following [those at Muddenahalli]. Although
going to Muddenahalli may do them good, believing in those distorted teachings is
not correct. It’s not good for them. Let’s pray that they become aware of that.
Today I spoke with a long-time brother from Italy who is still absolutely convinced
that perhaps this year Swami will reappear in His physical form in Prashanti. He
fervently believes that, and has believed it for years. And he says this year it’s
going to happen. I only say, “Let it happen, how wonderful!” Who would not want
that? Jesus took three days to appear in His physical body and gave darshan to
some devotees. Let’s hope that after so many years Swami appears in person,
though I myself do not believe at all it will happen. If you ask me, and this is not
an official position at all, personally I only believe that Prema Sai has been born. I
may be absolutely wrong, but I have some information about the village he is in,
where it is located, and I hope I have the time to go to that village and come across
a little toddler who happens to be Prema, and to get some sign from Him that He is
Prema.
I told the person who gave me this information that, “In my next trip I hope to find
a day when I can go, because I think Prema Sai has incarnated.” However, until
Prema Sai is 12, or 14 or 16 years old and decides to publicly announce that He is
Prema Sai, nobody will be able to confirm it, it will be Him who will confirm it.
Well, this brother from Italy believes in that and, if it does happen, he will be the
happiest person on the planet, and will not be the first.

Q: [Inaudible question from the audience.] The question is not very related to
Muddenahalli. My existential doubt is that not a blade of grass in this world can
move without the will of God. This is the ultimate reason. I don’t understand what
is going on.

A: Among the things that Swami told the person in charge of the Central Trust in
Mumbai when He announced He would leave His body was that there would be
quite a large upheaval in the Sai Organization. Nothing moves without His Will.
This is part of His Will; it is one of His Leelas. Why? We would have to ask Him.
What for? He knows. But without night, you can’t appreciate the day and without
cold you can’t appreciate warmth; this entire world is full of dualities and once you
are on the spiritual path, if such tests are there it’s because Swami wants them to be
there.

Trying to answer why, only Swami has the answer. It is clear that He put this
together Himself, because not a blade of grass can move without His Will, and
because nothing happens without His Will. Many people say, “If everything is the
Will of God, why did Nazism emerge? And the Second World War and Hitler?” or
“Why are there so many bad people?” Well, everything is part of the game. Have
you noticed in a TV series? If there is no villain in a TV series, there’s no fun.
What TV series can be fun without good guys and guys? If they are all saints, no
TV series is possible. Every story begins well; there is a crisis and then a happy
end. This cosmic dream, the illusion of Maya is made this way, with this kind of
fabric: pleasure and pain, pleasure and pain. Swami always says, “Pleasure is an
interval between two pains; pain is an interval between two pleasures.” Why is it
so? It is part of the scheme.

The important point is not to know why it happened; what is important is to clearly
understand what the teaching is. The most important point is to clearly understand
what the Lord’s teaching is in order to apply it in one’s own life. And why all this
talk? Because if the people in Muddenahalli, if Madhusudan had not started saying
things contrary to Swami’s message, I would not be here talking to you. I might
believe or not believe. But I would say, “It will be good for those who go there.
Let them be happy.” At the beginning I came here to talk and I said that it would
be good for those who go there. Nowadays I think that it’s good for them in some
respects, and it’s bad in other respects.

Q: [Inaudible question from the audience.]

A: I know Isaac very well. I have talked with him very many times. I have talked at
lunch in Prashanti, where I listened to him and after a while I wondered what he
was talking about. I would get lost in everything he said to me. He would talk
about the crystal city he was going to build. I know the person he asked to give
away the land where to build such crystal city, but that person declined the request.
I know many stories of what he said he would do, what would happen, that Swami
had told him of the crystal city. I don’t know if you have heard from Isaac’s
discourses, which did not bear fruit either. Isaac has been long telling many
esoteric stories on a personal journey. He is a very special devotee, has enormous
charm and has made a huge contribution to Swami’s mission, for which we should
be forever grateful. But we can all make mistakes. We can all fall into a trap. Then
I would say to myself, “Who is free to cast the first stone?” Perhaps Isaac
fervently believes in it, if he was ever convinced of the crystal city, perhaps he is
convinced and he says it because he is convinced.

Who knows? I basically do not accept two people from the original group: they
are Madhusudhan y Narasimha Murthy. These two KNOW that this is all a
lie. The rest of the world may be convinced that it is true, but these two know.
Well… Anything else?

Q: [Inaudible question from the audience.]

A: I always thought that if it’s good for them, let them go and be happy. When I
began noticing all these distortions of the message I had to say, “Watch out,
because these distortions are very relevant.” I have no objections against those who
believe, against the followers or against the promoters, against the persons who are
promoting this. Although the leaders of the Sai Organization who were promoting
Muddenahalli were asked to resign, it was only to avoid confusion. It was not
because they are considered to be bad, or because they were doing something
wrong. There are devotees who have faith that Swami is speaking there, and who
are putting all their energy in spreading that. I value such faith and such energy
because they are devoting their life, their time and their energy to spread God’s
messages. In my opinion, it’s a pity that it is not true, but I don’t find any fault with
them. There is no ill will or wrongdoing or ill intention, on the contrary. Any other
questions?

Q: [Inaudible question from the audience.]

What we all have to do, and I am asking you to do, is to try and sing three Gayatris
every day, praying that all this leela, all this confusion gets cleared, that this
apparent division of the Sai Organization ceases to exist, that we can all contribute
to the continuity of Swami’s mission and of Swami’s legacy. That we can all be
useful instruments of this mission of raising the consciousness of humanity. Swami
always said, “Unity, Purity, Dignity.” In other words, let us pray the Gayatri again
so that Unity of Sai Baba’s devotees can be restored. Let us try and have Swami
visit them, so that the Sai Organization may be a strong instrument of Swamis’
mission. The Sai Organization is just one more of all those that Swami uses all the
time. It is one more instrument because He communicates with individuals all over
the world, but the Organization is one more instrument. Swami once said in a
discourse he gave for His birthday, “Never stray from the Organization.
Those who stray away from it are very unfortunate, don’t let yourselves be
unfortunate.” He gave extreme importance to the Organization. Those of us who
were called to be in the Organization, we all are in it, some holding a leading
position, others as devotees, some with the responsibility for singing, others for
arranging an altar, but we are all part of Swami’s Organization.

The Organization is a channel for spreading His message. It is a channel with a


double purpose: to help us… Swami would always give this example: If you have
to travel 10 kilometers on your own, after two kilometers you will be exhausted. If
you’re accompanied by someone else, you’ll get to your destination without
noticing how time elapsed. This is the same. We keep each other company along
this spiritual path, we help each other and in addition we help others. Yes?

Q: [Inaudible question from the audience.]

A: The chair is a symbol… We, the chair, just like a picture, are instruments which
help us to intensify our devotion and to focus. For example, an essential element in
the spiritual path is imagination. If we have no imagination we cannot make
progress in the spiritual path. For example, if we are singing here, we feel, we
imagine that Swami is present in the altar. For instance, I used to sing bhajans here,
I would look at the picture and feel that Swami was there, and suddenly I would
see a sort of glow or an aura emanating from the picture. And I would feel and sing
and become more and more fervently involved… I can’t find the right words.
Swami IS in the picture, He is everywhere, but that picture is an instrument for
helping us. Swami always says, “Form is an instrument to help us attain no-form.”
Therefore, we should not confuse the chair as a symbol with imagining a subtle
body. I can imagine Swami’s subtle presence. One thing is to say we imagine
Swami’s subtle presence, the formless, ethereal presence, and quite another is to
say, “Swami’s subtle body, His astral body, is here speaking to me.”

This is very different because Swami speaks to us but not from His astral body. He
speaks to us from His Divine body, the omniscient, omnipresent Energy that is
everywhere all the time. And such omnipresence of the Divinity is very different
from thinking that the Avatar uses an astral body. Because mediums, for example
(I don’t want to give a talk on mediumism)… There are some people who, when
they leave the physical body, are retained on an astral plane longer then they
should. And on that astral plane there are different levels: there are 14 planes of
what has been called the hell, purgatory and paradise. They are different planes.
And there are souls trapped in a plane who use a medium to communicate, to
benefit, that’s how an alcoholic gets in to enjoy alcohol as he did when he was
alive; they can get in to give a message, to cause confusion, or whatever. And that
is an astral body. The Avatar has not remained in an astral body. His astral body
disintegrated. As we saw earlier, the astral body disintegrates, dies; the physical
body dies, the mental body dies, later even the mental body dies. The mental body,
where we stay a certain number of years, also dies. The fact is we have a physical
body. We die. The physical body disintegrates. This does not mean it disintegrates
at once. You’ll see that it takes some time for it to disintegrate. The corpse begins a
cadaveric process to be filled with cadaveric toxins; these toxins gradually waste
away the body until only the skeleton is left. Given more time, the skeleton will
also disintegrate. Given 100,000 or 20,000 years, nothing will be left but dust. The
skeletons used by doctors nowadays are recent skeletons. There are no skeletons
dating 100,000 years back, they disintegrate into dust. Everything is reduced to
dust. That’s why Swami uses vibhuti. The last thing left is matter.

But we die and we go to the astral plane: there is an astral body. That astral body
also dies and remains floating as an astral corpse. Then it becomes activated,
because we have the physical body, the astral body, the mental body and the causal
body all the time; they are here all the time. What happens is that my
consciousness is activated in the physical body. All of a sudden I feel an emotion,
the emotional part, the emotional body becomes activated. A seer sees that and
says, “Look at your emotional body, what colors it has!” That’s why a seer can see
the emotion of those who feel anger. Or love. They have colors. (Inaudible
comment from the audience.) Water is different.

So, those are the colors from the astral body, the emotional body. According to its
vibration, to the emotion felt, it emits a color. The seer sees colors, as you may
have read: rose for love, gold for purity, green for health, each color represents
something, red for anger, violet for spirituality. A very high spiritual emotion has a
violet color. We activate the emotional body. All of a sudden we start thinking, we
are playing chess and we are thinking; it becomes activated. The physical body is
moving over here, but my consciousness is activated in the mental plane. Or else I
am thinking about a math test, little attention is given to the physical body because
the mental plane is activated. But, what is left when the physical body dies? The
astral, mental, and causal bodies. But these die later on, they disintegrate. The
mental body became activated and continued to exist, but it also dies and
disintegrates.
What is then left is an atom of the astral body. This is what is left. In the Avatar,
the Avatar does not need to pass karma. He is not an evolved being who came to
an awakening of conscience and has to die, pass through planes, and be born again.
The Avatar is the energy of God which by its own will took on a physical body.
Swami has declared that he was not born out of a sexual relation between His
parents. I believe Swami said that our body is water in the mother’s womb, while
the Avatar’s is milk; the Avatar’s amniotic body is milk. Ours is water.

That’s what Swami said. Once I had concrete proof that Swami gave me about this.
But He gave it to me in a dream, in a vision, Swami in His physical form standing
before me in the Poorna Chandra, half a meter away from me. I can’t tell you
anymore, but it was like that. He said, “I was not born out of a sexual relation
between my parents. The Avatar’s body has a body…” eh, I don’t know what He
said, but He did say, “The baby is in the womb, and the amniotic body is
surrounded by water,” and added, “The Avatars’ body is milk.” That is why He
always said, “I don’t feel pain.” If you ask Swami, “What is darkness like?” “I
don’t know. I’ll take a look. Look at the sun, I can’t see darkness, I see light.”
“Look over there, there is only light.” Because wherever you look in the sun, there
is no darkness. Swami says something similar, “God is bliss, and I don’t know
what pain is. I don’ know what sadness is.” But we suffer. Swami says, “I don’t
know what pain is.” The Avatar is totally different from our mental concepts of
what a body is. What’s more, in our delirium, not even these bodies are true. Let’s
go to a higher plane. This is also just a dream. We believe in a concrete, physical
body: if someone hits me, it hurts; if I get a puncture wound, it bleeds and hurts.
But actually, if I were able to wake up, if I became someone like Ramakrishna
Paramahamsa, I got enlightened and I woke up, I’d realize that this body is an
illusion, it’s all Maya. If one wakes up to God, he can see that the whole universe
is Maya. But let’s leave that aside. We’re going to enter Maya. This physical body
is totally different from what the body of the Avatar is.

[A devotee exits]

Sairam. He’s leaving and we’re leaving with him (laughter from the audience).
Jesus is gone; the world is gone (laughter). As in the song that says, “Truth is gone;
all the other qualities are gone.”

[Another devotee exits]

Now Mary is leaving.


Q: [Inaudible comment from someone in the audience.]

A: Print it and read it; reflect on it. Well, before you leave one by one, let us
repeat one Om and three times Shanti to close off this talk. Thank you very much
for your patience. Here there’s no air conditioning. The fact that you came here
today is also a big step toward Swami, because you could have gone to an air-
conditioned shopping center, or stayed at home and feel cooler, but all the effort of
coming and being here, dedicating time –which is our most sacred possession– to
Him is also a great gesture toward Swami. And He always says that when you give
a step toward Him, He’ll give 10 or 100 steps toward you. So, be ready to receive
Swami’s 100 steps toward you. We’ll repeat one Om and three times Shanti.

Q: [Inaudible comment from someone in the audience.]

A: I just said and I’ll repeat it. My talk has been recorded and it will be made
public; perhaps you will listen to it. I don’t believe that those who are totally
convinced, those who have a firm faith, I don’t believe that what we might do by
speaking to them, explaining it to them, could have any effect at all. What we CAN
do, as they are sincere spiritual seekers who, in my opinion, are total confused, the
most important and the most powerful thing we can do is to pray. That’s why I
said, “Let’s sing the Gayatri.” Simply sing it three times or any multiple of three.
Twelve times a day and at that time pray so that this confusion among all of
Swami’s devotees may be cleared. Because He always says, “You are like butter, if
it gets close to the fire, it will melt.” These prayers are like the fire that will melt
Swamis’ heart so He can get this confusion cleared. The best thing we can do then
is to pray to have this confusion cleared. Let’s all do that.

[Inaudible comment from someone in the audience.]

When I saw and heard the casino issue, I said, “That’s it!” But what happened?
They took the video out of Internet. When I go to someone and tell him, “Look
here, do this.” You know what he says to me? “I don’t believe you.” If they had
left the casino video on YouTube, I would tell everyone to watch it. But when I go
to people and tell them, “Look what he said!” people tell me “I don’t believe you, I
can’t believe you.” Then I tell them, “Watch the link,” but when they enter the
link, there is no access. Then what else can you do? Because I believe many people
will not believe me. However, as there are thousands of us who saw it, and as Isaac
Tigrett himself confirmed it to a person in Muddenahalli, I would have to tell this
person’s name and say, “Look, this person confirmed it, he asked Isaac Tigrett.”
And speak with the thousands of us who saw it, because thousands saw it, tens of
thousands saw it until it was taken out of the Internet. Someone here saw it too.
There is something that reassures me: in the Bhagavad Gita it is said that Truth
wins in the end. So with that faith let’s repeat one Om and three times Shanti.

In humble service to Bagawans Sri Sathya Sai Baba the Purna Avatar

OM SAI RAM