What is it about it that upsets me?

If I dont have free will, perhaps I dont have any choice but to be average somet
imes?
the sort of thinking that goes along the lines of
"this is being lame, i want to be awesome, but perhaps if there's no free will
i cant choose and then act upon being other-than-lame; i am consigned to hell of
a sort, and i may not even realise it"

and on some level that might be true. It certainly seems the case that some peo
ple are trapped.

although, the flaw in this seems to be the same as the flaw in "well my death is
predetermined, there is nothing i can do about it"
...and then stopping trying to be healthy/ survive, etc.
Whats the problem with this? the problem with this is, lets say death IS predet
ermined - that's not the same as "its a zero sum game,
fate has decreed i will die at x place at y time regardless of whether i be heal
thy or not"
its more like saying "your life will be a certain way. you will die on a certai
n day. you will also behave a certain way, and at every moment
you'll be in a certain state of existence, up to and including the day you die"

it's not saying anything about "i will die at x and y regardless of what path my
life takes prior to that"
its just saying "things will be a certain way, or a certain way with randomness,
in this universe, and no human or probably any other
life form in this universe, and quite possibly any life form anywhere, will be a
ble to gain knowledge of that course; it is "unknowable" in the
sense that its not something that can be known by lifeforms.

now THAT doesnt cause me anxiety. BUT the idea that I cant CHOOSE, that I am no
t a being who SELECTS and acts is horrible.
But, even dogs are beings that select and act. they just have simpler urges
we ARE beings that select and act... we do have freedom in that sense that we as
sess, select and act...
it just might be the case that thats ALL we are, when really we want to somehow
be MORE, to have it be true that
we are what we sometimes feel we are (free), even though there is no coherent fo
rmal definition of that freedom.
so whats really the problem at the core of it?

the disempowering idea that perhaps my "desires" will play out in such a way tha
t I will NEVER select a course that
leads to my own happiness

what's the FEELING at the core of it?

feeling trapped in being dysfunctional, fear that i will never "get out" of my d
ysfunctionality and into a mode of being that I really would
prefer.

also this idea that my mediocre times WERE NOT AVOIDABLE.... previously I'd ra
tionalise them all as "well, I could have chosen differently,
or chosen differently earlier, and thus generated a different state or momentum
within myself, and handled that better"
It's not even about objectively saying "well i could have done X different at Y
time and then arrived at Z in state D+"
but rather, just having a sense of "mediocre times at Y are a result of somethi
ng I chose to do at A , and I can choose in similar situations to A
to produce better times (i.e. living values more) at future situations simular t
o Y"

and it may well be the case that your "path" in life includes this.

also, another problem with no free will = do we actually learn from past mistake
s? how does it make sense to say we have any active learning

but isnt there equally crazy shit like we arent atall aware of cognitive process
es, only a few streams of consciousness that come and go like
thoughts, feelings, sensations, urges etc that all fade in and out of awareness

another problem is the "trapped" feeling of saying "well just act as if we have
free will" and then realising fuck, but if we dont have free will,
how can i choose to act as if? it may well be the case that y

I think you're equating lack of free will in the scientific / philosophic sense
to "lack of choice" or "restriction on action" in the pragmatic sense.

It's not like, you feel like you're choosing, you suddenly remember you dont hav
e free will, and then you must forget about choosing or making
something happen because you will be unable to.
you in fact WILL assess, select, act...
it's just not necessarily true that you would ever have done otherwise.
which doesnt bother me, its this distorted idea of being trapped.

remember, any lack of free will is OUTSIDE any sense of choice or action. it's
something in the universe, and any time you feel it coming into your sense
of choice or action, its not THE FACT THAT WE DONT HAVE FREE WILL that is upsett
ing you, its the sense of
"what im doing right now might not make any difference"
and well who knows on that front? ultimately there isnt even any cause and effe
ct, things just are what they are and do what they do.

ALL of this shit is just mental models we make anyway.

So it may be that we ARE ultimately limited in choice and action, but its also n
ot true that "LACK OF FREE WILL" is ever anything that
is going to be something humans have to "take into consideration" when it comes
to choosing and acting.
it's like saying atoms have to think about the laws of physics before they act.
not true, they behave a certain way because of what they are
and how things are.

jack CERTAINLY feels like he's acting, effecting, exercising intent, etc etc etc
. He also feels like he's powerless sometimes.

ALSO, other people/animals behaving predictably isnt "evidence" of lack of free

will... lack of free will is outside of behaviours/actions/choices,
its not something that suddenly "comes in" and takes over.

I like this idea of different models of reality - we can be modelled effectively

as reacting to stimuli, we can be modelled effectively as
agents with free will, we can be modelled effectively as lumps of meat with flow
s of liquid chemicals and electrical activity, we can be modelled
as fused elements all interacting, we can be modelled as one big quantum wavefun
ction. ETC.

Also, whether or not you choose to be empowered or disempowered, focus on being

in control, taking action etc or consigning yourself to your fate,
if there ISNT free will, whatever you did you would have done anyway, and if the
re IS free will, you may as well choose the empowering one.
and if it FEELS like there's free will, you may as well act accordingly, because
:
if it feels like there is and there is, you will maximise happiness by exercisin
g it
if it feels like free will and there isnt, then whatever will be will be, and th
at is something "outside" of whatever actions and choices you take

Whats really the issue is underlying stress tolerance/anxiety. So lets act to f

ix it.

Remember, we know a tonne of other stuff is BS as well. All concepts, self imag
es, expectations, identity, certainties, sense of "I" and unity of consciousness
,
even concepts such as individualities and separateness like objects, people etc
- these are all mental constructs
bearing no relation to the real world. they are pragmatic mental models, subjec
tive experiences of patterns of neural activity
that may or may not help you make sense of the world and assist you in living y
our values.
And it can even be argued that there IS no real world in any meaningful sense.
there are just events and forms and we have various models that
are pragmatic for us, good rules of thumb from different viewpoints.
EVERYTHING is an illusion... but with that, I just think, well yep, no point goi
ng deep into that and getting all anxious; I have a strong sense
of self, a strong sense of things I value, and a strong sense of choice and capa
city to act.
At every level of complexity, "nothing matters" -
"nothing matters" in that the ultimate fate of the universe is universal heat de
ath,
"nothing matters" in that we're just a bunch of organisms scrambling around on a
planet,
"nothing matters" in that all our ideals and ideologies are just patterns of men
tal activity,
"nothing matters" in that the "stuff" we're made of isnt even actually stuff, we
're just nothingness and unimaginably complex
combinations of event probabilities squared.
SO you may as well be pragmatic, make use of the paradigm that is empowering,
and just get on with living your values.
***
of course the free will response is "yes but we cant pick paradigms, we dont hav
e free will" - it seems to hit home harder because it feels like
your freedom is being snatched. It definitely can FEEL like you arent in contro
l, like you cant always be how you want to be (which is clearly true,
states and momentum are sometimes slow to change, and it can feel like you are j
ust a certain "way" when you'd prefer to be another way)

Whereas these other things are just so abstract; like, "people dont exist" or "m
atter isnt real, its just collapsed squared probabilities"...
or even "there are no ethics and morals"
its kind of fantastic to think about but really doesnt hit home in any worrying
way because we just have no sense of pragmatic context for it,
people and matter and ethics just seem so clearly REAL and urgent to us, we just
 FEEL them intensely and with certitude, they are just so obviously there,
in ways that our animal brains are certain of, that any claims otherwise really
dont affect us emotionally, even if we understand them in an intellectual way an
d maybe agree with them.
BUT the idea that I dont have a choice, that I am somehow "controlled by outside
forces" is more pressingly concerning because it resonates
with my need to control, fear of powerlessness, etc. It's more easy to worry ab
out.

Remember, we have no obligation to science telling us WITH NEAR CERTAINTY that w

e will never do certain things, that our lives will never be greater
than 150, etc etc etc.
I suppose with me the core if it is being able to fucking sort myself out.
And really, even if its just not possible, I will be happy that I gave it my all
and I will make my life work. I will find ways around it and find ways
to live well and live a fulfilled life.

****

the answer is we CAN pick paradigms and sometimes we do. it's just maybe not th
e case that when we do, we could have done otherwise.
its ALSO not the case that lack of free will is ever able to "limit" us within o
ur own perception of our lives, in no sense does it "restrict" us
in any meaningful way.
It FEELS like we are agents with free will... so theres no point associating pai
n with feelings of having made a choice. you could look at your state
and probably see a common pattern (eeg, autonomic etc), and could certainly retr
ain it with sophisticated enough methods.
maybe it will have been the case that "thats how things were going to be", and s
o be it. but thats all that can be said, and its essentially trivial -
things will be what they will be.
It's just completely un helpful, un empowering, un pragmatic. and you'll notice
you can choose otherwise and build momentum otherwise.
any "problems" with it are outside any consideration of choice, action, etc.

Perhaps you give yourself too little credit. you ARENT just an amoeba reacting
to emotional currents with everything predetermined before it comes
into rational thought....
decisions get taken and made in the frontal lobes. reasons get represented and a
ssessed and futures considered etc. Deterministic does not = braindead,
like Dennett said, the fears that we "lose our free will" do not follow from a d
eterministic view of consciousness.
reasons still get represented and assessed, we still retain our competencies tha
t are far greater than a dolphins that are greater than a monkeys that
are greater than a dogs that are greater than a lobsters that are greater than a
n amoebas.... etc. We are FREE in a way that no bird is free, in Dennetts words
.

at the end of the day, an unhappiness about how you feel or a persistent interna
l anxiety is exactly that. How do we deal with such things?
With the usual methods. therapy, self-healing, action, change of focus, expressi
on, social contact, getting on and living your values.

dont be fooled into thinking you can "look back" and determine if you "had free
will" or not. Humans are notoriously poor at accurate introspection
and self-assessment of processes. Plenty of evidence for this.