Hi Rookie, > I do understand your reservations about posting 'general' comments here, it is just not the proper channel.

It just would go beyond the limits of this forum. I need some graphs and a lot of text to put it down (and to clarify my point of view in an unambiguous way). > I will be very interested in your publication when it is out. No problem. It will be published on my website (free available for everyone). :-) But up to now I haven't finished even the German version, not to mention the English one. :-( > we know that starch will affect the setting of cement, but will you share > by how much in general? (ie the retardation, and at what %?) If you want to express it in percent - percent based on *what*? On pure cement? On cement plus x% cellulose ether? I don't want to define a percentage but I can give you some test results: If you prepare a cementitious tile adhesive out of 40.0% portland cement (CEM I 42.5 R) 59.5% quartz sand 0.1-0.4 mm 0.4% cellulose ether = HEMC, 30000 mPas 2% soln. (i.e. Walocel MKX 30000 PF 01) and with a water/solids ratio of 0.25 you may get an initial set time of 10h and a final set of 15h. If you add 0.05% starch ether the initial set may increase to 20h and the final set to 28h. If you use just cement + additive: 99.9% portland cement (CEM I 42.5 R) 0.1% additive (cellulose ether or starch ether) water/cement ratio = 0.45 you may get these values for the initial set: control (without additive) = 3h HEMC (MKX 30000 PF 01) = 5h starch ether = 12h So, starch ethers usually retard a lot. :-/ > do most commericially-available starch products retard cement products Yes, see above. > to unacceptable level? How much is "unacceptable"? Nevertheless, there are starch ethers that retard much less (just as much as cellulose ethers do). According to above mentioned conditions you would get: starch ether (type 2) = 5h The thickening mechanism of these starch ethers ("type 2") is different and they don't show the same effects on the mortar rheology. While normal starch ethers act as a flocculant (they flocculate the cement dispersion) and therefore work at very low addition rates, the "type 2" starch ethers don't act sole as a flocculant. As a result, they need somewhat higher addition rates and give a different rheology.

you can replace such stearates by water repellent redispersible powders, like special Vinnapas grades from Wacker Polymers. With such products you have no wetting problems in the mixing procedure and if you are producing coloured grouts, you should also get a better dispersion of the pigments. Furthermore you will also achieve a better adhesion of the grout on the flanks of the tiles. best regards Klaus

if you compare self levelling compounds as supplied from different producers, you will also find that the properties of this products are also not always comparable, which is a result of different raw materials and formulation as well. An admix of such shrinkage compensating additives (mostly based on diols) will reduce further the shrinkage somewhat und can sometimes also improve the workability, but you can not produce a SLU only with an such a shrinkage reducing agent. regards

The main school of thought, to me, is to employ a combination of such shrinkage reducer (for eg. from Peramin) and calcium sulphate hemihydrate. The types and critical dosage of the hemihydrate is the key to a 'successful' formulation. Some other people might wish to introduce fibers also.

Do all agree that sometimes the workability of plasters are compromised by adding even small amount of redispersible powders? They becomes sticky and the spread, tough. This seems to be a common belief by most dry-mix chemists, do anyone has any idea to counter such problems? this phenomenon depends on your formulation and also on the type of redispersible powder you are using, Some powders even improve the workability. You can your supplier which powder he can recommend for good workability, but you can also overcome such problems by an admix of a suitable starch ether. All big producer of celluloseethers are also offering such additives. Another possibility is to incorporate an admix of a suitable bentonite (Optibent from Suedchemie ), and reduce somewhat the level of celluloseether. Also high dispersed silica like Wacker HDK H 15 (~0.5%) will help. regards Adler stickiness of wet mortar depends mostly upon the combination of additives inside your formulation. One major influence comes from the MC used - choose the rght grade (the ones for CTAs mostly DONT work; get assistance from your supplier). I do agree with Dr. Adler on all the other influences, additional fillers and/or fibres should not be too fine (makes sticky, too). as I konw,RDP can really improve the workability of plasters. If they becomes sticky,I think it is related with the W/C,RDP dosage and also the MC dosage.

There are lots of additives in drymix. 1 Redispersible powders(RDP) Enhanced workability,better yield distinct improvement of water retention,increased bond and surface strength, reduced shrinkage and improved flexibility,longer open time. 2 Cellulose ethers(MC) or Starch ether Better workability, improved sag resistance, less tackiness, longer open time, less skinning. 3 Air-entraining agents Better workability and plasticity, increased yield (more volume by introduced air volume),reduced shrinkage, improved water retention and homogeneity, prevent water separation. 4 Plasticizing agents Reduced water demand and increased compressive strength (very important for concrete!), improved workability, homogeneity and pumpability. 5 Fibres (Cellulose, Polyacrylnitrile, Polyethylene, Polypropylene) Improved tensile strength, strong reduction of cracking given by their reinforcing effects to mortars and concrete, consistency regulating, improved sag resistance and structure build up. 6 Setting retarders and accelerators Regulation of setting/hydration of mineral binders in order to obtain most suitable and required working time, hydration promoting agents for improved early strength, mainly for cement based systems. 7 Hydrophobing agents (Stearates, Oleates, Silicones) Reduced water absorbence, improved water proofing and repellent effect, distinctly better weather proof properties (rain, frost). But customers,they tend to use less additives in drymix.how to optimize the types of drymix additives become the great problem.

would any one tell me about the right test and equipment for sagging in CTA? - what the perfect test for open time and pot life in CTA used in USA? THANKS

The sagging test is done according to EN 1308. Stone ware tile of 100 x 100 mm is fixed with the CTA to be tested on concrete slab of 400 x 400 mm. A load of 5 kg is applied on it for 30 secs and concrete slab is kept in verticle position to observe the tile slipping on it. The tile should not slip by more than 0.5 mm.

Does exist any standard for the water permability test using the Karsten test tube?

The European Standard EN 1015-21:2002 defines a test method for the determination of the water permeability of a mortar.