My Lords

l tbook tbe ooble lotJ Mlolstet fot bls meosoteJ lottoJoctloo of tbls 8lll lN1k51
1hls 8lll ls plalnly a subsLanLlal plece of leglslaLlon
lL makes ma[or changes Lo Lhe clvll law our prlnclpal concerns focus on whaL are exLenslve cuLs Lo
clvll Legal Ald and a dramaLlc swlLch ln clvll llLlgaLlon Lo place greaLer flnanclal burdens on wlnnlng
clalmanLs hlLherLo LreaLed as enLlLled Lo resLlLuLlon for Lhelr loss and damage
1he secLlon on crlmlnal [usLlce ls perhaps less sweeplng and less conLroverslal encompasslng as lL
does boLh senLenclng reform much of whlch we supporL and Lhe creaLlon of new crlmlnal
offences
1he laLLer for Lhe maln parL were lnLroduced aL 8eporL SLage ln anoLher place
lL ls Lhe changes Lo boLh Legal Ald and clvll llLlgaLlon LhaL have rlghLly aLLracLed Lhe mosL concern
Lhe mosL represenLaLlons from clvll socleLy and Lhe mosL debaLe ln anoLher place
lL should be clear from Lhe ouLseL LhaL we oppose many of Lhese changes
l know from speaklng Lo cerLaln of my Lords LhaL Lhese concerns are shared by many here and my
noble frlend Lord 8ach and l wlll advance argumenLs as Lo why Lhose changes are boLh
economlcally mlsgulded and LargeL Lhe wrong people
1he mosL vulnerable ln Lhe case of Legal Ald lncludlng vulnerable famllles
And vlcLlms ln Lhe case of clvll llLlgaLlon reform

2 arL 3 of Lhe 8lll conLalns a varleLy of aL Llmes falrly subsLanLlal changes Lo Lhe crlmlnal
[usLlce sysLem
We do welcome some of Lhese changes
lor example Lhe governmenL lnLends Lo dlverL away from cusLody people wlLh menLal healLh and
addlcLlon problems as well as young people
1hese proposals are boLh senslble and proporLlonaLe
1he governmenL proposes Lo end lndeflnlLe senLences for publlc proLecLlon ls whlch have
aLLracLed conslderable crlLlclsm over Lhe years
1hey plan Lo replace ls wlLh exLended deLermlnaLe senLences and mandaLory llfe senLences for
Lhe offender who commlLs cerLaln speclfled offences Lwlce
1hey also alm Lo change Lhe way remand works ln Lngland and Wales by llmlLlng lLs use where Lhere
a [udge rules LhaL Lhere ls no probablllLy of a cusLodlal senLence
ur vlew on Lhe lasL lssue ls LhaL Lhere ls of course merlL ln reduclng Lhe use of remand where lL ls
unnecessary buL only lf lL does noL puL vlcLlms and Lhe general publlc ln harm's way
lurLher Lhere are due process lssues for a maglsLraLe who wlLhouL havlng seen tlmo focle
evldence ls requlred Lo declde wheLher an offender ls llkely Lo be senLenced Lo cusLody
1he CovernmenL have slgnalled Lhelr lnLenL Lo brlng forward ln Lhls Pouse furLher changes Lo
remand ln response Lo campalgns such as LhaL by Lhe parenLs of !ane Clough who was murdered
by her exparLner whlle he was on ball pendlng charges of rape agalnsL !ane
We do expecL Lhese wlll requlre conslderable scruLlny so LhaL we can balance keeplng Lhe use of
remand whlle proLecLlng Lhe publlc
1he 8lll also creaLes new crlmlnal offences of LhreaLenlng wlLh a knlfe and squaLLlng alongslde whaL
Lhe CovernmenL calls a clarlflcaLlon" of how much force can be used ln defence of properLy
l expecL Lhere wlll be consLrucLlve debaLe ln Lhls Pouse on all Lhese lssues


3 8uL l reLurn Lo arLs 1 and 2 of Lhe 8lll whlch correcLly have aLLracLed Lhe mosL concern
1he cuLs Lo Legal Ald ln arL 1 and Lhe reducLlon of Lhe damages vlcLlms recelve seL ouL ln arL 2 of
Lhe 8lll are we conLend conLlguous assaulLs on access Lo [usLlce for boLh Lhe mosL lmpecunlous ln
socleLy and Lhose of moderaLe means
1he governmenL alms Lo make subsLanLlal cuLs Lo soclal welfare Legal Ald and Advlce
Welfare beneflLs wlll be removed from Lhe scope of Legal Ald
l mlghL observe LhaL Lhe Llberal uemocraLs who saL on Lhe ubllc 8lll CommlLLee ln anoLher place
were so moved by Lhe debaLe on Lhls aspecL Lo voLe down Lhe pposlLlon amendmenL ln Lhe ubllc
8lll CommlLLee buL Lhen somewhaL puzzllngly Labled Lhe very same amendmenL aL 8eporL SLage
LducaLlon advlce and represenLaLlon excepL for maLLers deallng wlLh Speclal LducaLlonal needs or
dlscrlmlnaLlon wlll be removed from scope as wlll be
uebL advlce excepL where Lhe cllenL's home ls aL rlsk
LmploymenL advlce and represenLaLlon excepL dlscrlmlnaLlon lssues
And flnally houslng advlce excepL where Lhe cllenL's home ls aL rlsk
1he CovernmenL apparenLly hopes Lo save 643 mllllon by removlng Lhese areas of law from scope
whlle affecLlng adversely Lhe mosL vulnerable people ln socleLy
l say 'adversely affecLlng' as Lhese clLlzens wlll now have Lo navlgaLe Lhe llrsL 1ler 1rlbunals on Lhelr
own wlLhouL advlce or represenLaLlon
l appreclaLe Lhe llrsL 1ler 1rlbunals are meanL Lo be more user frlendly Lo Lhe unrepresenLed
appllcanL Lhan Lhe CourLs buL Lhey sLlll rule on maLLers of law whlch user frlendllness ln lLself does
noL asslsL
lor someone LhaL has a learnlng dlsablllLy or has poor language or communlcaLlon skllls Lhe rlsk ls
Lhey wlll recelve no help aL all
Answers Lo arllamenLary CuesLlons reveal LhaL Lhose who appear before Lhe 1rlbunals wlLh
speclallsL advlce are Lwlce as llkely Lo wln as Lhose wlLhouL speclallsL advlce
lf we look aL Lhe daLa for Lhe lasL year Laklng advlce away from Lhose LhaL won ralses Lhe quesLlon
wheLher Lhose 31000 people who recelved advlce and won Lhelr cases would have ln facL won aL
all
1he real concern ls people who have merlLorlous cases and where advlce permlLs Lhelr cases Lo be
pled cogenLly and persuaslvely wlll lose ouL And we know LhaL where Lhe vulnerable lose ouL Lhelr
llves can someLlmes Llp over lnLo lll healLh homelessness and famlly breakdown
And of course lL ls Lhen only Lhen LhaL Lhe SLaLe wlll be obllged Lo lnLervene
lL cosLs 130 per case of debL advlce
up Lo 47000 Lo resolve a case of homelessness
1he Clvll !usLlce Councll Lhe nondeparLmenLal publlc body LhaL advlses Lhe MlnlsLry of !usLlce on
clvll [usLlce ln lLs recenL reporL on llLlganLslnperson sLaLes lL ls hard Lo oversLaLe [usL how dlfflculL
lL can be for Lhe person for Lhe courL and for oLher parLles when someone selfrepresenLs"
1hey go on Lo say LhaL
1he deslgn of Lhe legal ald reducLlons and changes wlll Lake away rouLes Lo accesslble early advlce
(lncludlng by Lhe damage done Lo Lhe advlce secLor whlch ln Lurn damages access Lo wlder pro bono
legal servlces) and leave lnLervenLlon Loo laLe or denled alLogeLher As a resulL we wlll flnd more
cases sLarLed by selfrepresenLed clalmanLs LhaL need noL have been sLarLed more cases where self
represenLed defendanLs are lnvolved for longer Lhan need be and more cases noL sLarLlng when
Lhey should be sLarLed so LhaL Lhey can be resolved We wlll flnd problems clusLerlng wlLh
lncreaslngly wlde and serlous consequences for Lhe lndlvldual for famllles and Lhe sLaLe"
1he CovernmenL's own lmpacL assessmenLs do noL read more hopefully
1hey say Lhe cuLs Lo soclal welfare Legal Ald LhreaLen Lo lead Lo
reduced soclal coheslon lncreased crlmlnallLy reduced buslness and economlc efflclency
lncreased cosLs for oLher ueparLmenLs lncreased Lransfer paymenLs from oLher ueparLmenLs ln
parLlcular hlgher beneflLs paymenLs for people who spenL Lhelr savlngs on legal acLlon"
1hese proposals merlL conslderable scruLlny by Lhls Pouse and l urge Lhose LhaL have noL done so Lo
read Lhe Pansard record of Lhe CommlLLee and 8eporL SLage of Lhls 8lll ln anoLher place
Members from all sldes argued agalnsL Lhese changes whlch do llLLle Lo enhance our socleLy

4 1he second ma[or change Lo Lhe Legal Ald sysLem ls LhaL Lo prlvaLe famlly Legal Ald
rlvaLe famlly Legal Ald whlch helps lmpecunlous appllcanLs wlLh maLLers lncludlng dlvorce
cusLody or anclllary rellef (paymenLs and malnLenance followlng dlvorce) wlll no longer be funded
by Legal Ald unless Lhe appllcanL has suffered domesLlc abuse
1he governmenL have seL ouL slx forms of evldence LhaL Lhey wlll accepL for Lhe purposes of
accesslng prlvaLe famlly Legal Ald
We belleve and many oLhers lncludlng Lhe Women's lnsLlLuLe 8lghLs of Women Lnd vlolence
AgalnsL Women agree Lhls evldenLlal prescrlpLlon wlll adversely affecL women
ln parLlcular Lhls pposlLlon ls very concerned Lhe evldenLlal crlLerla adopLed by Lhe CovernmenL
are Loo narrow
ln facL Lhey don'L even reflecL besL pracLlce across governmenL
1he uk 8order Agency's llsL of accepLed evldence on domesLlc vlolence ls broader Lhan Lhls 8lll's
LreaLmenL of someone seeklng Legal Ald for a dlvorce
ne ls glven Lo undersLand Lhe governmenL ls so worrled abouL evldenLlal crlLerla conLalnlng an
elemenL of selfreferral" and Lhelr declslon Lo make domesLlc abuse Lhe gaLeway" Lo Legal Ald
LhaL a perverse lncenLlve would be creaLed Lo clalm abuse where Lhere mlghL be none
8uL Lhls approach seems Lo creaLe and fosLer lnsLlLuLlonallsed doubL as Lo Lhe veraclLy of vlcLlms'
clalms ln Lhe flrsL lnsLance
We fear lL wlll dlsadvanLage women and lndeed men who leave a parLner afLer susLalned abuse
1hey may noL have revealed Lhelr experlences of abuse Lo oLhers
8uL Lhey wlll be denled Legal Ald because Lhey do noL flL Lhe seL crlLerla
Pardly an advance noble Lords wlll agree


3 llnally l come Lo arL 2 of Lhe 8lll whlch deals wlLh reform of clvll llLlgaLlon fundlng and
cosLs
1he CovernmenL belleves LhaL conLlngency fee agreemenLs LhaL ls nowln nofee" clalms requlre
subsLanLlal reform
nowln nofee ls a mechanlsm allowlng people of llLLle or moderaLe means Lo access Lhe courLs
wlLhouL havlng Lo morLgage Lhelr house or geL lnLo severe debL fundlng an acLlon on a sLandard fee
basls
no wln no fee has worked remarkably well as a means of fundlng llLlgaLlon
lL llmlLs llablllLles for clalmanLs and deLers lawyers from Laklng on vexaLlous or spurlous cases whlle
enabllng reasonable cases Lo be Laken on all Lhrough Lhe awardlng of success fees
1he CovernmenL's plans whlch we wlll examlne ln Lhelr LechnlcallLles ln due course propose ma[or
changes Lo Lhe seLLled sysLem we have now
Pow wlll lL affecL Lhose who flnd Lhemselves needlng recourse Lo clvll llLlgaLlon ofLen llLerally
Lhrough no faulL of Lhelr own?
Wlnnlng clalmanLs LhaL ls Lhose who have been wronged wlll lose ouL 1hey may have Lo pay up Lo
23 of Lhelr damages Lo Lhelr lawyers excepLlng any award for fuLure care now Lrue lL ls LhaL Lo
make up for parL of Lhese losses Lhe CovernmenL plans a 10 lncrease ln damages for paln
sufferlng and loss of amenlLy buL noL all damages awards 1he slmplesL arlLhmeLlc shows LhaL
lncrease wlll noL replace Lhe percenLage pald Lo Lhe lawyer
ddly loslng clalmanLs however wlll galn because Lhey wlll no longer have Lo pay Lhe cosLs of Lhe
wlnnlng defendanL 1hls ls parL of Lhe Cuallfled ne Way CosLShlfLlng" scheme Lhe CovernmenL
lnLends Lo lnLroduce once Lhe 8lll passes Local auLhorlLles and lnsurers are prlvaLely counselllng LhaL
Lhls wlll lead Lo an exploslon ln fraudulenL small clalms Lyplcally sllps and falls where auLhorlLles
cosLs defendlng exceed Lhe clalm And elsewhere Lhe CovernmenL fears 'perverse lncenLlves'
Loslng uefendanLs LhaL ls wrongdoers Lhose proven Lo have caused harm wlll galn because Lhey
wlll noL have Lo pay Lhe cosL of A1L lnsurance and Lhe vlcLlm's lawyer's success fee Lhus llmlLlng
Lhelr and Lhelr lnsurers' llablllLles
llnally wlnnlng uefendanLs who successfully defend Lhelr case wlll no longer be able Lo reclalm Lhe
cosLs of Lhelr defence Lhanks Lo Cuallfled neWay CosLShlfLlng noL all defendanLs are large
companles or lnsured
So Lhe galners from Lhls 8lll are loslng clalmanLs and loslng wrongdoers and Lhelr lnsurers Lhe losers
are clalmanLs who prove Lhelr cases and defendanLs who are held noL Lo be aL faulL Such
ouLcomes are aL besL curlous Lo Lhose who prefer [usLlce and falrness
1he ma[orlLy of clvll cases are road Lrafflc accldenL personal ln[ury cases
And lL ls Lrue LhaL Lhe AssoclaLlon of 8rlLlsh lnsurers and Lhe 8L Pon !ack SLraw have hlghllghLed
how socalled whlplash fraud ls a real problem ln Lhls area
8uL Lhls 8lll has consequences well beyond LhaL problem whlch can be resolved by a more focused
approach
1he effecL of Lhe CovernmenL's changes wlll be Lo render much of Lhe law LhaL proLecLs Lhe
lndlvldual no longer pracLlcally accesslble Lo many of our fellow clLlzens
lf we Lake Lhe acuLe area of cllnlcal negllgence for example Lhe nPS LlLlgaLlon AuLhorlLy hardly a
clalmanL's advocaLe lL defends cllnlcal negllgence cases ldenLlfles ln lLs response Lo consulLaLlon
LhaL severely braln damaged chlldren and adulLs" wlll flnd lL hard Lo lnsLrucL a lawyer who ls wllllng
and able Lo Lake on Lhelr cases
eople who have losL ouL Lo lncompeLenL or fraudulenL flnanclal advlsors lawyers accounLanLs
wlll flnd LhaL Lhey wlll end up recoverlng less Lhan Lhey losL desplLe havlng done noLhlng wrong
Lhemselves 1o lose 23 of damages Loday connoLes slgnlflcanL conLrlbuLory negllgence by Lhe
clalmanL under Lhls 8lll Lhe damaged Lhe blame free wlll lose ouL and for whaL overrldlng publlc
good? lL would no doubL be crude sloganeerlng Lo suggesL 'proLecLlon of lnsurance company
proflLs' buL one ls lefL puzzled seeklng Lo ldenLlfy Lhe clear pollcy ob[ecLlve [usLlfylng such
consequences 1he noble lord Lhe mlnlsLer wlll no doubL asslsL Lhe Pouse wlLh an explanaLlon
beyond whaL we have heard Lhus far


6 LeL me Lurn Lo anoLher area of adverse effecLs of Lhe 8lll vlz buslness and human rlghLs cases
Cases llke 1raflgura Lhe 'Loxlc wasLe Lo Afrlca' case wlll slmply be mosL unllkely ever Lo be broughL
ln fuLure and LhaL for cosLs reasons
1he un SecreLary Ceneral's Speclal 8epresenLaLlve for 8uslness and Puman 8lghLs rofessor !ohn
8uggle of Parvard unlverslLy alongslde campalgners such as lotet ollo CAlu lrlends of Lhe LarLh
AmnesLy xfam urge a reLhlnk
Agaln employmenL law already under assaulL ln so many ways wheLher from Lrlbunal charges or
by Legal Ald cuLs or socalled 'blue sky Lhlnklng' Lo remove Lhe laws compleLely lf people are made
redundanL or sacked unlawfully and Lhelr enLlLlemenL Lo remedles ls blocked Lhe resulL ln many
cases wlll be Lhe SLaLe has Lo provlde Lhe supporL for whlch oLherwlse Lhe employer ls llable
lnsolvency cases where PM8C and Lhe lnsolvency Servlce have sLaLed Lhey are lobbylng for an
exempLlon [olned up governmenL?
llnally l Lurn Lo lndusLrlal lllness and dlsease one of Lhe mosL dlfflculL areas Many charlLles
lncludlng Lhose LhaL supporL Lhe vlcLlms of asbesLosls have expressed real concern LhaL Lhls 8lll
LhreaLens Lhelr ablllLy Lo geL access Lo [usLlce


7 lf l may l wlll read a few excerpLs from a leLLer wrlLLen by ?veLLe ldham whose parLner
1revor was a vlcLlm of absesLosls
My bosbooJ 1tevot ooJ l wete JevostoteJ ooo beotloq bls Jloqoosls of mesotbellomo lo Motcb
200
we wete jost o ootmol coole wltb o qtowoo soo leoJloq bosy llves ot wotk soclollsloq sottloq
octlvltles
1tevot ls lo oo woy to blome fot bls cooJltloo ooJ wos exoseJ to osbestos betweeo 24 yeots of
oqe wbeo be wos oo oteotlce llft eoqloeet etectloq llfts oo bollJloq sltes

1bls Jlseose bos offecteJ oot llves lo evety woy osslble ooJ sttess levels bove beeo exttemely blqb
fot botb of os

1tevot bos beeo lo olo sloce tbe cooJltloo sboweJ ltself ne ls vety seosltlve to sttooq oloklllloq
Jtoqs so ls oooble to toke mote effectlve olo tellef
1be sttess ooJ wotty tbot qo wltb tbe obove ote oobellevoble yet tbe qovetomeot ls ttyloq to moke
vlctlms foce oJJltloool sttess ooJ wotty by mokloq tbem JeclJe wbetbet tbey coo offotJ to toke oot
o clvll octloo
comeosotloo woolJ be etoJeJ by bovloq to oy leqol costs los losotooce to covet JefeoJoots leqol
costs los tbe wotty of bovloq to oy some fees oftoot
1bls ls oo losolt ooJ wlll Jlscootoqe eole ftom mokloq o clolm to wblcb tbey ote eotltleJ
1bls blll sboolJ be JeslqoeJ to sto tbe ombolooce cboset btlqoJe wbo cootoct tosectlve clleots
ooJ oJvettlse coostootly oot wotkloce vlctlms wbose llves wete ot ot tlsk by exosote to osbestos



8 1hls 8lll ls overLurnlng cenLral aspecLs of our clvll [usLlce sysLem LhaL have proved poslLlve and
progresslve

1he mosL vulnerable people ln socleLy and vlcLlms are belng dlsadvanLaged Some say Lhe purpose
ls Lo aLLack a socalled compensaLlon culLure f course Lhere are abuses as can occur ln all
sysLems 8uL Lhere ls no evldence evldence noL headllnes of conLlnulng pervaslve abuse
requlrlng Lhls 8lll's approach
We belleve Lhe CovernmenL wlll sLruggle Lo [usLlfy Lhe changes Lhls debaLe wlll hlghllghL
We can promlse LhaL Lhls 8lll wlll be sub[ecL Lo subsLanLlal scruLlny ln CommlLLee