Howard Griswold Conference CallThursday, March 11, 2010 Partial Howard Griswold Conference calls: 218-844-3388 pin 966771#

(6 mutes & un-mutes), Thursdays at 8 p.m., Eastern Time. 6 Mutes and un-mutes

Conference Call is simulcast on:

www.TheREALPublicRadio.Net Starting in the first hour at 8 p.m.

Note: there is a hydrate water call Mondays, same time and number and pin #. Howards home number: 302-875-2653 (between 9:30, a.m, and 7:00, p.m.)
Mickeys debt collection call is 8:00 p.m., Eastern Time, Wednesday night. The number is 712 432 8773 and the pin number is 947975#.

All correspondence to: Gemini Investment Research Group, POB 398, Delmar, Del. 19940 (do not address mail to Howard Griswold since Howard has not taken up residence in that mailbox and since hes on good terms with his wife he isnt likely to in the foreseeable future.) "All" Howard's and GEMINI RESEARCH's information through the years, has been gathered, combined and collated into 3 "Home-Study Courses" and "Information packages" listed at www.peoples-rights.com "Mail Order" DONATIONS and/or Toll-Free 1-877-544-4718 (24 Hours F.A.Q. line) Dave DiReamer can be reached at: notaxman@dmv.com Peoples-rights has a new book available from The Informer: Just Who Really Owns the United States, the International Monetary Fund, Federal Reserve, World Bank, Your House, Your Car, Everythingthe Myth and the Reality. Hell take $45 for the book to help with ads, but $40 would be ok which includes shipping ($35 barebones minimum) www.peoples-rights.com c/o 1624 Savannah Road, Lewes, Delaware 19958 ******************** Often you can find a transcript or a partial one for the weeks call at the following website: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peoplelookingforthetruth ******************************************************************* When you arent talking please mute your phone!!

It would be best if you mute your phone when you first come on, then un-mute it when you want to talk and then re-mute it. You can use the *6 button on your phone or use the phones mute button Speaker phones and cell phones are not desirable as they can chop up the call badly occasionally. If you are recording the call and leave the phone unintended, please mute!!!!! Note, on October 30th someone left the phone un-muted and coupled television audio into the phone making the conference call conversations very difficult. When you are not muted be careful of making noise such as breathing hard into the phones microphone or rubbing the mouthpiece or not reducing extraneous noise across the room. Cell phones can pick up wind noise when used outside and also if not in a primary reception zone can couple noise into the call. Excessive echoes and noise will terminate the conference call. Cell phones and speaker phones can cause echoes. Keep the call quiet, dont make Howard climb out of his mailbox and bop you one. ******************************************************************* Note: the telephone lines are usually quite noisy and therefore it would be prudent to slow your speech down otherwise your words and meaning will be lost. Suggestion to everyone (even Howard): Get a phone with a privacy or mute button. This is much more convenient than star-6 and more rapid to use. It can also be used as a cough button since it can be used rapidly. Try it, youll like it. ********************************************************************* 01:01:57.979 [Howard] In my mind theres a great question of how many people would even bother to take the time to study the information that we are putting together about how you become a resident agent of the governmenthow the principal and agent law appliesthat the principal has complete and total authority over his agents. If you do anything that the government doesnt like as an agent the government can punish you. This is basically exactly what we just talking about here with the doctors. If the doctors dont promote the drugs that the Food and Drug Administration wants promoted then theyll do something to you to prevent you from continuing on in medicine and possibly even come up with phony charges and prosecute you so that you cant continue to do what youre doing. See how they treat their agents? They do the same thing with you if you dont get their drivers license because all the rest of the agents have a drivers license so youre going to have one too and were going to force you to do it and if you dont do it well put you in jail or well fine you or well take your car away from you or well fine you so much that we can take your house away from youanything they can do to force you to cooperate and they can get away with doing it because youre an agent. So, the trick would be to legally terminate that agency, not real complicated. The more I study the less involved it seems to be but it has to be specifically done with legal terminology and it cant be done with just common use words. It has to be recognizable in law. But the thing I found in a little further study was, an agent can terminate his agency at any time he wishes to do so. He really doesnt

have to have a reason to do itjust do it. It would be advantageous for you to know the reason though because I assure you a judge is going to want to know what you mean by this. Well, what do you mean, you terminate, what agency, youre going to have to explain it, and if you dont the judge is going to ignore it. So itll do you no good unless you can explain. And thats what worries me is most people will not even bother to read the paperwork that goes with this that explains why and they wouldnt be able to explain why. And if you dont and you cant because you were too lazy to bother to read and the judge proceeds against you as though youre an agent its your own damned fault for not putting out an effort and I cant feel sorry for you but there was one thing that bothered me and I had to get through this and figure it out and that is an agency that is coupled with an interestnow, were talking about something like the security interest. Any kind of an interest whatsoever that is developed by the agency can you terminate that at will? And what it says is, there is a class of cases in which the principal has no authority to revoke the agency. This is where, as it is said by the courts, that the agency is coupled with an interest as when the agent has an interest in the subject matter of the agency by way of a security. Now, registration of all property with the government whether its your body through the birth certificate, your labor through social security, your car through auto registration, your puppy dog through dog registration establishes an interest in that property for the government who is the holder of the instrument that you filed as a registration document. So that left me sort of cold for a while until I thought far enough and looked up a few other things related to the next paragraph. The next paragraph says, for example, when a person has possession of property with the power to sell and apply the proceeds to the payment of a debt that is due such as a case that constitutes an agency coupled with an interest. Now, in small print theres an explanation of this. The name is Mr. Graves wishing to sell his house and the lot that it sits on as he has to move to another place because of his health or any other kind of a reason, entered into an agreement with a local real estate agent in whose hands he put the house for sale whereby the agent advanced him $1000 which amount he is to deduct from the sale price when the house is sold. Mr. Graves cannot, without the agents consent revoke this agreement as the agent has an agency coupled with an interest. The interest is the money that he gave to him. Money is a form of property so that would apply to any type of property that was given but as I studied this further and further I realized that its only the principal that cant revoke the agency when the agency is coupled with an interest like the registration of property. It goes on to say, as to the rights of the agent to renounce the agency it seems that he also has the power but not the right to renounce the agency at will and the renunciation may be expressed or implied as if the agent abandons his work. Theres the loophole. It took a while to figure this out. But, as the agent, if you abandon the relationship where the agency took place then the principal may consider the agency as renounced. Now, I knew there as a connection here that had to be followed through. Just giving notice to the Secretary of States office that we are renouncing the agency with the state of, city of, the United States government, the town of, the county of, whatever place that youre affiliated with and they assume this resident agency status to exist with you and by giving notice to the Secretary of State that youre renouncing all these agency statuses is not the only thing that were going to have to do. Were going to have to terminate all of these registrations, the birth certificate, the social security, the auto registration, the land deed registration, everything is going to have to be terminated because thats the only way to terminate the work that youve been doing.

Youve been working with these people, cooperating with them, given them your property to hold and thats how the agency attached and just to send in a notice to the Secretary of States office that youre relinquishing the agency and then to continue to allow the land deed to be in the recorder of deeds office without notice that youre terminating it or Social Security Administration to have a copy of your application for social security without notice that youre terminating it, its falling short of whats necessary to stop doing the work, abandoning the work that you were doing with them. This is going to force more people to have to make up their minds that they dont want all these benefits to government they dont want government to hold their land deed, they dont want a social security number, they dont want to work in a job that requires a social security number that they got to force the company they work for to accept a W8BEN form thats been discussed on our program many times before which is in lieu of a W4 form that they want you to fill out which shows that youre a private individual, that youre not an agent of government and youre not a taxpayer and that they cannot deduct taxes from you and consider you to be a US individual receiving income. This is going to get to where the people are going to have to have a pretty full understanding, an explanation of why theyre doing this, that they dont want governments benefits, privileges and opportunities and theyre relinquishing any connection with the government and theyre going to have to able to explain this. And thats the part that worries me. Most people wont read, much less will they read it more than once, which is what you do when you study something. They would also have a fear of not getting government services and benefits so they would not want to give it up. So, Im not sure that this is going to be a real big thing. There are some people that are intelligent enough and gutsy enough that they would relinquish the agency, they would terminate all registrations. As a matter of fact, we have some on the line tonight that have terminated registrations of almost every type. But we have new people on the line who never heard of something like this and wondering what Im talking about. And we have other people on the line that have heard about it year after year because Ive talked about it for years and they have not done a thing to put themselves in a clean position of removing all of their registrations from government and clearing themselves as being resident agents of the government. So, it bothers me. This has been worrying me as weve studied into this and looked into it further that this is going to be a awkward thing for some people to do and an easy thing for a few people to do. Im going to continue to put it together but I dont think that this is going to be a major move in changing the corruption of government. Maybe they wont be able to bother one individual anymore because he knows how to explain it and he does it well and he files the papers correctly and he revokes registrations correctly and maybe hell be a free person or she will be a free person, one who follows through, but itll be a very small number. The government will still have the principle control as principal over the majority of the population and will continue to do the same thing in the courts and continue the corruption of peoples private property and peoples liberty that has been going on simply because so many of the people would be afraid to withdraw from government because, well, gee, I dont be able to go to their hospitals and use their doctors. What do you want to go to a drug-pushing doctor for? Dieyoure better offdie naturally. Dont let them poison you. Its a slow miserable death when they poison you with drugs. Why do you want to die slowly? Just die naturally. But some people arent going to look at it that way. But theres a very good reason for doing this and its written right in the law of principal and agent and that is the revoking by the principal or

relinquishing by the agent of this agency status during the time of war. In case the people dont realize it were in a state of war. The government has declared war on the private people of America and taking their private property for their personal use and benefit without compensating us. Thats an act of war and were in a state of war and weve been in a state of war since the Civil War. Nothings changed, the Civil Wars not over, its still going on. It doesnt have the same purpose behind it that created the Civil War anymore at least not openly. But some of the purpose of corrupt people that were in government that organized this did it for the purpose of controlling the people through money and its still going on today and when somebody is controlling you its an act of war. And under the law of principal and agent it says it is the general law in this countryand by the way, that general law comes from the international laws which this country has adoptedthat the existence of a state of war between the country of the principal and that of the agent terminates the agency automatically. Actually, all this agency is automatically terminated because we are indeed in a state of war. Nobodys shooting guns at you except when you dont do what youre toldthen theyll shoot you. If they can force you to do it by going to court and putting you in jail and try to coerce you they wont shoot you. But if it gets too far along and youre not willing to cooperate there have been many incidents in this country where government has come out and just shot people because they wont cooperate. This is a state of war. Even though theres lot of guns going off, theres no uniform military personnel standing at the door in front of your house making you do thingswe havent gotten to that point. Theres no military conflict out in the fields as often happens in war like what you see on the television about whats going on over in Afghanistan and Iraq. Its not that type of a war. A war has many facets and one of them is just plain taking peoples property and forcing people to cooperate with the overriding controlling factions. We have an overriding controlling faction and its these corrupt lawyers that are in office from the Presidents office. Ninety percent of them have been lawyers. The Congressmen and House of Representatives, ninety-nine percent of them are lawyers. The state legislatures, ninety-nine percent of them are lawyers. Its these lawyers that have put together a takeover of this country and its laws and its governments and there is evidence of that in the statutes where they did it and thats what Im putting together, a little sort of like a pamphlet explaining how and when they did it and what they did with their revised laws. They revised the laws to suit their ability to control you and your property. Thats an act of war against the people. The American people are so docile as Dave said a few minutes ago, were frogs and they just threw us in a bucket of cold water and put the bucket on the heat. As it heats up were boiling. Theyre destroying us, theyre killing us with their drugs, their taxation, their control over our property and our lives and our business and our food. Yeah, definitely, yes, the food supply. Its the biggest problem we have thats killing us. Its not the cigarettes despite media bullshit and peoples asinine beliefs about it. Its the food supply thats killing people. Their control of the water too, the chemicals that they put into everything, the food supply and the water are adverse to the body. This war that is going on is becoming more intense and its going to get more intense if some of our representatives allow things like this health care bill to be passed and implemented because its going to put the pressure on the people to do certain things. Its going to restrict certain people from doing certain things. Im too old to be worth anything so they wont put me in a hospital and treat me anymore because I dont have enough of a life left thats going to be productive so they dont want to treat meIm too old. This is

part of the program that theyre putting together in this health care thing to be able to control who gets health care and how much expense there is. Thats why theyre telling you its going to cut down on expenses. Theyre going to cut out the health care to elderly because the elderly are the biggest expense on health care and were not productive anymore. We dont produce an income and pay taxes and support the system so were a burden to the system. Thats what this package is all about. It has nothing to do with the rhetoric youve been hearing on television. A little common sense is all you should need to be able to see that, that the elderly is getting to be the largest part of the population in this countrythe war babies. The war babies are the ones born between 1941 and 1946. Theres a whole lot of rhetoric about thethey dont actually call them the war babies but they got some other name for them. It comes all the way up through the fifties and the sixties. [caller] Baby boomers.

[Howard] Yeah, baby boomers. Well, the baby boomers were actually only the war babies. The largest birth rate in the history of the world occurred between 1941 and 1946 while the war was going on. The ones that came along after that theyre not baby boomers, theyre not the war babies but they all are in the next ten years or so going to be in the social security and Medicare rolls too. Theres no where near as many of them from 46 on as there was from 41 to 46. That was the population boom. Thats the group thats getting old and registering. Somebody told me and I have no idea how much accuracy there is to it but its probably quite possible that every month there are 15,000 new people signing up for social security and Medicare. I think thats a small numberI really think its bigger than that. But even if we take it at 15,000 just think of the amount of money that thats costing the government in social security checks every month for these people and Medicare payments for all their ailments because theyre sickly, theyre weak, theyre in very bad health because of the food supply that the government has controlled and weakened our health with over the years. The government caused this problem themselves. I think they hoped that wed die before we got this old but its amazing how resilient the body is, how it can stand contamination and disruption of the bodys functions because of contamination and theyve been contaminating the food by the processing and by the chemicals they used to grow it, depleting the nutrition thats in it terribly. Youre lucky if its got three percent of its natural nutrition left in it by the time its fully grown and harvested and then if its processed in any way youre lucky if its got one percent of the nutritional value left. So, youre not getting the proper nutrition and its loaded with all kinds of toxins and contaminants in the processing and the growth with the chemicals that they use. So your bodys consuming all of this stuff and its deteriorating your body so by the time you get up into these years of retirement from sixty-two on up and start filing for social security and Medicare youre at a deteriorated state of health and youre going to need medical care. {Oh, what a little health education could have done exposing the real facts of nutrition See www.westonaprice.org } If you cooperate with that kind of medical care youre going to need it and most people do cooperate because they know no better. Its costing the government more money than the government has. Its taking them broke so they have to make some new law. They have to cut their expenses in some way. The only way to cut that expense is to train the doctors to make a determination that youre not a

productive person anymore, youre not entitled to any medical services and just refuse the medical service. That way the government wont have to pay for it. [caller] [Howard] place? [caller] Howard, isnt that socialism? Why certainly, but what the hell do you think social security was in the first I understand

[Howard] Its socialism. Why did we join, why did we cooperate? Because we were brain dead, we didnt pay attention. We didnt put a stop to this back in 1936 and 37 when it first came out when it should have been stopped. [caller] Brain washed.

[Howard] We accepted the brain washing. We cooperated, we participated. I remember in Catholic church as a young kid the sermon that a priest gave that we should all sign up for social security. Its a very good wonderful thing because it helps take care of the elderly and thats a duty that we have that we should take care of the elderly. Well, he promoted it so damned well you just got to go along. Hes a lying sack of shit but he promoted it so good that you just got to go along. [caller] I dont see anywhere in the alleged Constitution that allows them to give us brain washing or health care. [Howard] You are absolutely correct. As a matter of fact I had a thought in my mind of maybe digging out a book I have here. I have a whole series of books called the papers and writings of the presidents. Now, it only comes up to, I think, Eisenhower. I didnt get any of the newer ones. This was a collection that somebody was getting rid of. It was in a flea market and I think I paid $10 for the whole collection and it starts out all the way back at the beginning of the Presidents and the different notes that they wrote and the messages that they sent to Congressmen and it covers their veto messages when they vetoed laws. And Andrew Johnson, the President who followed Abraham Lincoln vetoed and wrote a long veto message vetoing the Civil Rights Act of 1866 which in case, if youre not aware of the history, was the beginning of the language used in the 14th Amendment. And because he vetoed the Civil Rights Act as a legislative act they converted it to an amendment and pushed the Amendment through and made it look like it got passed when, in fact, the 14th Amendmentthe 13th, 14th, and 15th were never properly ratified and passed into law but they still appear on the books. They appear that they have validity and they are in use and accepted by all states and are being promoted as the law today and were living under those amendments and those amendments were destructive to this country and the peoples freedom in this country but were living under it. But Andrew Johnson explained why the government did not have the authority to regulate education to regulate health care, to regulated finances for individuals such as social security and insurances and such as that. Now, he didnt spell it out in all those words but I got to dig that out. I got it around here

somewhere in my piles of books and maybe read it to you because hes explained why the Constitution did not give the authority to government to get into these kinds of things and do these kinds for people. Well, if we understand that then we could understand the part of the 10th Amendment that exists that says that the people have the last word. We have the right to nullify anything that the government does as it applies to us individually in the event that our state legislatures dont nullify it. Now, believe it or not the State of Virginia legislature has a law in process of going through the legislature and being voted on that will allow them to nullify the entire health care bill if it is passed. And according to the news 34 other states have similar legislation being drafted and proposed before their legislatures to nullify such things as this. Theres going to be a battle in government, not out here in the streets but in government, over this health care thing. Theres already a pretty good battle going on over gun control. I dont know what the Supreme Courts final decision is going to be in the Chicago case but it sounds like from the discussion that was on the news about it that the United States Supreme Court is going to rule the same way they ruled on the Washington, D.C. case that the gun legislation is unconstitutional and its struck down and it cannot be applied. Theyre losing ground on the control of the people slowly but surely through this process that we have of using the courts, taking it to the highest court eventually, and through the states ability to nullify which is something new. The state legislatures have never ever considered doing anything like this in past history. This is a new concept that theyre just getting into. Its been there throughout the two centuries and a few years of the Constitutions existence but theyve never used it. Theyre starting to wake up and starting to realize that they have these powers of relinquishing and renouncing the things that government makes them do. And as the politicians begin to recognize it hopefully some of the people will begin to recognize it and maybe this concept that Ive come up here of relinquishing the agency will grow and become a much bigger thing. But as I see it, right now, I still dont see that the people are going to jump on it and think its a great idea and I think the main reason is because there are so many people that think they need health care. {It would appear that all benefits are a chain around the peoples necks} and theres a hell of a lot of people including a bunch of politicians that are behind this health care plan because so many people in their district want the health care. Well, theyre not going to get much out of it but they dont know that. As long as the people want it government will give it to youtheyll give you anything you ask for. {Just watch out for the fish hook}. Ask them to control your neighbor and theyll make laws to control your neighbor because you asked. Its against the law to control your neighbor but theyll do it anyway just because you asked. Theyll control your health. I dont like thisif you just stop and think about the words this is a health control bill. Why do you want them to control your health? [caller] It controls a lot more than that.

[Howard] Yeah, it sure does. Itll control your finances right out of your pocket too if you participate with it. [caller] [Howard] Can I comment on that gun control you mentioned? Yeah, have you heard anything more on that Chicago case?

[caller] No, but it relates more probably to the Washington case. Now, we all know that Washington is separate and distinct. The problem arises is they have come up with a reverse psychology I might say in that the case decision allows the community within the state to make more decisions upon gun control which would make it here in the East Coast in New Jersey very dangerous. In other words my neighbor on the rest of the block or the city or the county would have control over my individual right per se regardless if its gun control or not. That is the theory behind that. [Howard] Yes, I agree and what theyre doing is theyre setting up another case to be brought in the future but in the meanwhile theyll try to regulate your guns locally instead of regulating them on a statewide or nationwide basis. Its narrowing down. Youre going to find some leaders in local government that think we should be armed. Here in Delaware we got three counties. Thats as big as this state is, theres only three counties. Two of the counties, I guarantee you, would never make laws eliminating a persons individual right to a gun. These two counties might make laws requiring you to have a gun and prosecuting you and putting you in jail if you dont have a gun and dont have enough rounds of ammunition. If the law says you got to have 1000 rounds and you dont have it they might jail you. This county would be harsh in forcing you to have protective means. The third county, up north, is a suburb of Philadelphiathats all it is, its not in Pennsylvania. Wilmington is nothing but a suburb of Philadelphia. Its all business intertwined with the big business of Philadelphia and those people up in that area they would think guns are a terrible thing. That county would probably pass laws that you cant have a gun. [Jim] Well, the criminals would love that.

[Howard] The lower two counties of Delaware dont even consider that third county to be a part of Delawarewe ignore it. I think youll find that in a number of the states too that some of the counties will be in favor of people having guns and self protection and other counties will have these neurotic nuts, religious idiots, that think guns are terrible because guns kill people. Guns dont kill people. People that pull the trigger is what kills people. And some people are supposed to be killed but a lot of people go to church and listen to the preacher instead of reading the Bible. The Bible says there is a time to kill. The preacher says its wrong to kill people. Now, which one you want to believe? You have an option there. [Jim] You have to get permission to kill.

[Howard] Ill tell you what, you gave me permission. If I catch you beating some little old lady up and trying to steal your purse you just gave me permission to kill you and I will. [Jim] murder. [Howard] If you kill someone of anger, out of lust, out jealousy, then you committed Thats murder right there.

[Jim] Yeah, thats murder. But if you kill somebody out of self defense or protecting someone thats different. [Howard] Or protecting property.

[Jim] Yeah, just like in the Commandments, thou shalt not murder, not kill, because God killed a whole lot of folks. [Howard] Youre darned right. I have talked about that before. This entity that we call God, Hes very strict. [Jim] Because hes the only one that can take a life, because He can create it, we cant, we have to get permission. [Howard] [Jim] Well, we have permission. Yeah, I know, thats why I said, you had that permission.

[Howard] God gave us the ability to create and we create new generations, dont we? I told a cop one time that we were just discussing at a meeting the control the government has over peoples children and I said, you know what, I brought that daughter of mine into the world, I created her, and that gives me the right to take her out of this world if she cant behave herself. I said, I hope to hell she behaves herself because I will take her out of this world. He didnt like me at all. I said, well, I dont care if you like me or not, Im telling you what the law really isthis is the law of nature. I created it; I have the right to get rid of itshe better behave herself. Well, I got a pretty good little daughter and shes rather well behaved. She did act up one time. She almost got herself into trouble but she came through it. She got her senses back about her and shes doing fine in lifepretty good kid. [Jim] Is there a way I can call you tomorrow, Howard?

[Howard] Well, give it a try. If you dont get an answer keep trying. I dont avoid people. I just sometimes lately Ive been taking naps. Im still not strong and feeling real good. [Jim] Ok, thats why I asked. Ill be coming there pretty soon and I would like to know if I can come back and see you. [Howard] [Jim] [Howard] [Jim] Sure. This is Jim from Michigan. Oh, ok, you coming down this way? Hopefully yes. Im coming down there to visit my in-laws in Baltimore.

[Howard] Baltimores about two and a half hours away from me. I used to travel all over the country. My health is not good enough to do that traveling any more. I wore myself out doing it for twelve years. Thats a good part of what wore me down was all that traveling. Travelings hard on you. Im just not up it but my doors open. Anybody that can stop by just please make arrangements, dont just do it. [Jim] Yeah, I had to give up my driving too. Thats why I dont have commercial driving anymore now. But you said affidavit.commercial license registration brought back to me. Am I correct? [Howard] Thats right. And the reason why they didnt pay you for the benefit they got of using your vehicle for their personal use. So, if they didnt pay you and give you just compensation they got to return it. [Jim] Ok. Im working on that right now.

[Howard] There is a Biblical predictionI think its in the Book of Revelation about these last days and it will become very violent. There is a number of different spots in the Bible, Jesus Christ speaking giving us advice. In the Book of Mathew it tells us in the last days to trade our purse, meaning our belongings, whatever we havetrade your purse for a weapon, a sword. Well, a sword is a weapon, todays weapons are guns or ropes or, well, sometimes words, yes, but many times I think this is getting beyond words. Its getting beyond the ability to do this in courts or anything like that although the courts are starting to turn a little bit to try to adjust things. I dont think theyre going to go far enough. I dont think the adjustments ever going to happen and I think its going to turn into violence and in the Book Revelations it says something to the effect that the blood will be curb deep in the cities which means an awful lot of killing is going to go on. It also says how intense this gets to be, how bad it gets to be will depend upon the people and what they do. If more of the people awaken and realize why and just stop participating in this stuff the violence may not get to be quite so intense. But apparently there will be violence in these times, were heading toward it and, boy, can you see the anger develop in the people. These tea party meetings and things like that is a sign that people are angry and upset. But when you listen to these politicians today and what theyre saying, theyre angry too. [Jim] Well, thats what the bankers are banking on, they can make a profit.

[Howard] Well, I got a feeling theyre going to lose out on this one because theyre not going to be able to finance both sides this time. Its getting out of their control. What they got figured isnt working the way they had it figured. [Jim] So I guess theyll go to plan B now?

[Howard] Yes, and I think youll see this concept of war that I told you that were already in accelerating into a more violent war at which time the agency is terminated

automatically by law and the principal no longer has control over you because youre shooting at the principal. But youre only going to shoot at the principal because the principals shooting at you trying to force you to cooperate. Thats the way its going to unwind. Theyre going to force the people by guns to cooperate and the people will rebel and say, no, were not going to cooperate and use the guns back. [Jim] Thats why Im turning in my license and thats why I getting my registration back because Im tired of the police out here terrorizing me pulling me over and taking me out of my automobile, confiscating my automobile, putting me in jail, and forcing me to sign things, taking my picture, and doing like Im a criminal or something. I dont think I want their product or their service anymore. Thats why Im terminating it because Im not doing it out of just being mean. Im just doing it because Im tired of it. Im not a criminal. Im an American citizen, I work, I do things [Howard] Thats where the relinquishment of the agency should come in to play and show them that youre not one of their agents anymore. They dont have the authority over you and your automobile. [Jim] Thats what I want. I dont like their product of their services. I dont appreciate it. [Howard] I dont appreciate their benefits, privileges and opportunities. You call them products and servicessame thing. Theyre benefits attached to liabilities. I dont want their benefits. I dont want the liability that attaches to their benefits. Why would I accept their benefit when it lays a liability on me that gives them more benefit than I get. [caller] Howard, question along those same lines, youre talking about being reimbursed for them using it. However, my understanding is that they would take that like a birth certificate and collateralize it and monetize it. So, in other words, if the car is worth $10,000 you would go ten to thirteen times the amount that it originally was. [Howard] [caller] [Howard] [caller] Thats exactly what theyre doing and isnt that a benefit for them? Yes. Did they pay you for it? No, they did not. Couldnt we claim the full amount?

[Howard] Yes. Many times Ive talked about it. I got a 1989 Lincoln Town car. Do you realize that that thing is twenty-one years old now? Its probably worth six or eight hundred dollars. Its only worth about $150 if its worth that much in scrap metal but if they want to regulate it and tell me how I can use it then they got to give me the $33,000 that it sold for brand new. And argue with them and fight until hell froze over and you know thats not likely to happen so Id fight for as long as I could live and continue to fight demanding that they pay me the $33,000 before they get to regulate the use of that car.

[Jim]

How you do that? What kind of a law case is that?

[caller] No, no, no, no, Howard, thats only part of it. What Im speaking of is when they monetize our birth certificate they monetize the birth certificate of the car, the MSO. Yeah, they do the same thing with everything you registertheyre monetizing it, theyre using it for their benefit. [caller] [Howard] [caller] So it would be ten times $30,000. Well, its my propertyI know what youre saying. Ok. Thank you.

[Howard] But its my property. I can only claim my investment in that property. I cant claim their monetization. But if I claim my investment and prevent them from monetizing it until they pay me for my investment then they cant monetize it and they cant take it for their benefit, for public use, without paying me just compensation. Thats where the law comes in. Thats what kind of case it is to answer the other fellows question. Its a taking of private property for public use without just compensation in violation of their Fifth Amendment. And by the way, the Fifth Amendment is applicable to the states through the 14th Amendment and the paragraph in the 14th Amendment that says, no state shall interfere with the life, liberty and property of the citizens of the state. The Supreme Court has ruled that the 14th Amendment applies the 5th Amendment to the states now, even though it didnt originally apply to the states. So they cannot take your private property through the state or the federal government without paying just compensation. Theyre doing it, theyve been doing it, theyve taken everything. They forced us to register our puppy dogs. That is the least important, least valuable little thing that we have is something like our puppy dog but they make us license it. Thats a registration of it. They actually impose a monetary value on the puppy dog registration just like they do on the birth certificate and monetize that registration all the way up to your body and the birth certificate which is the most valuable thing that we have, our own bodies and our own bodys productive ability which is monetized through the social security applicationits re-monetized. Theyre getting a tremendous public benefit off of us and our property without giving us just compensation in return for it. [Jim] I got a letter here. I just got through mailing it back to Michigan Treasury and the Michigan Department of Collections from the Treasury. They say that I owe them $500 for accountability fee for a suspended licensewhich my license wasnt suspended. And twicethey say they can levy and they can confiscate my bank account and everything else so I put on there, I do not accept nor consent to these procedures, and I made a copy of it and I sent it to the Michigan State Treasury and alsothis ladys name on here, her name, signer, and I called there and I told her, may I speak to this lady that sent me this letter? And they said, no, you cant. Well, why not? She sent me the letter and she signed it right here. I need to talk to her about the situation that shes talking

about. Well, to make the story short they wouldnt let me talk to her so, anyway, I put it on the letter in care of her and the address where I was supposed to send it to. [Howard] [Jim] [Howard] [Jim] [Howard] [Jim] Im silently laughing at your story. You know why? Why? Because there is no such lady. Is that right? Thats a fictitious name. Are you kidding me?

[Howard] Im not kidding you. They do this all the time. All the way back in probably about 1980 or 81 I got a letter from the IRS. I had not filed any tax forms because we retired. We closed the business and got out of business and just stopped working and making money in 1975. So in 1975 I didnt file a tax form because I didnt have any income. In 76 I didnt file, in 77, 78, 79somewhere around 79 or 80 I get this letter from the IRS. It says, please explain you have not filed a 1040 tax form, and its signed IRS agent, I.M. Frantic. Who in the hell has a name like I. M. Frantic? Thats a fictitious name. [Jim] Yeah, and what I got was Sheila Few or something Well, I did ask them and they said, no, you cant talk to her. I said, why not; she sent me the letter. Well, you cant talk to her. You have to talk to us. No kidding. Well, where on this letter did I say I have to talk to you? What is your name? So I took his name down and the time that I talked to him, then he gives me to a lady and the lady says, well, you cant talk to her. Shes indisposed right now. So I can help you. We can make arrangements. I said, no, youre not making any arrangements. Before you do anything about my moneyyou better have a court date where I come down to the court. Well, we can live without having a court, without going to court. I said, is that right, what law is that? So anyway, I sent it to them today, I dropped it off and mailed it to them. [Howard] Most of these letters that you get in the mail with a signature on them are phony signatures. A lot of these peopleif you ask them for their name and theyre giving you a phony name. When they operate in a government position as an agent of government for some agency they always pick a phony name to operate under so that you cant find them out here in the world in life. It shows you corrupt governmentwhy would government do this? If we had a legitimate government that actually did what it was supposed to do and didnt steal from the people then you wouldnt have to have phony names, you wouldnt have to hide, you wouldnt have to have a metal detector at the door before you could get into the building because the people wouldnt be angry about government. Theyd be happy that government was doing what it was supposed to do. But governments not doing what its supposed to do. Its stealing from us and its making

people unhappy and thats why they need a metal detector at the door, thats why they need to operate under phony names, so that you cant find them and go kill them because they know that there are some people out here that would go kill them. Way back in the early eighties I started checking on some of these people in government and their names and it came up that they were phony names. They told me what their name was and gave me some identification card that said that they were government agents. This is their name and this is the picture and the picture looked like them but I happened to have some inside contracts and I had the inside contacts run the tag on their car and the registration came up in a completely name than the ID that they showed me that they had from government. [Jim] [caller] [Howard] Well, thank you for that information. Howard, have you ever heard of Lindsay Springer? Ive heard of himyeah.

[caller] He had a large case going for several years against the IRS. He put an IRS agent on the stand in his case and cross examined her and askedI forget her name, Im sorryhe asked her about the documents and signature and she said that that was not her signature and that she sees 5000 or so letters a month and she cant sign them all. She has an ok for anybody to sign them or stamp them. She never sees those documents. [Howard] Yeah. Well, weve gotten into a lot of debt collection cases recently like credit card debt collection and the lawyer thats going to court and trying to collect this alleged credit card debt from people has some kind of an affidavit that this debt is true and correct and the money is still owing and uncollected from the defendant and its signed by a John Ding-a-ling or somethingMary Ding-a-ling. And we finally got the judges to agree that that affidavit had no validity to be presented to the court as evidence unless the individual that signed it could be brought into court and questioned because the defendant has a right to fact their accuser and the judge agreed that we do have the right to face the accuser. He ordered the lawyer debt collector to bring this individual into the court and the lawyer debt collector withdrew the case. Does that tell you something? This affidavit was signed by somebody in his office, notarized by somebody in his office. The notary is probably real but the person who signed it did not sign their own name. They signed a fictitious name. Thats why they cant bring the person in. [Jim] Well, the case should be dismissed.

[Howard] Well, they withdrew the case. We didnt even have to get it dismissed they withdrew. When the judge ordered them to bring this person in they withdrew their case. [caller] Howard, I have a document with a notarys stamp and signature on the document for a mortgage but there are no signatures from any agents or people on it.

[Howard] So what was he notarizing? Interesting how they evade the law by making it appear that theyve done what theyre supposed to do when in fact theyre not doing what theyre supposed to do. This person who signed in the debt collection affidavits and knows nothing about the debt, has no experience and knowledge whatsoever and didnt sign their own name even and yet the notary notarized it. And in a case like what youre talking about the notary notarized the mortgage papers and theres no signatures on the papers. What the hell was he notarizing? It looked like its legal, doesnt it, because its got a notary on it. [caller] Technically the notarys in trouble.

[Howard] But theyll never prosecute him because hes one of their people. They protect their own. [caller] Well, who knows what it is? It draws the conclusion that they get to keep the original note or mortgage on the particular loan and they can still monetize it out there for up to forty years. [Howard] Thats right. They monetize everything that we sign. The only state law that Ive found anywhere in all the states that I have gone into their Uniform Commercial Codes, their commercial law code, and looked at is Virginia that actually told you the whole story. All the rest of them left part of the words out to explain a signature and how important it is. But under the definition of a signaturefor instance, in Delawares Code it says a signature can be hand written, it can be typed, it can be hand lettered, it can even be a mark that represents an individual and thats where it stopped. Virginias Code went on to say and this signature is the evidence of credit. Thats the only one that goes far enough to tell you that what youre doing with your signature is theyre monetizing your credit based on your signature. Any documentIve said this before. Back around Valentines Day we were talking about this and I said, if youre going to send your wife a love letter or your girl friend a love letter and tell her shes just like a bank account to you, youve got a lot of interest in her. That would be a cute Valentines card, wouldnt it? You would sign it with your name. Anything else, always sign it with the debtors phony name because its the debtor in this phony commerce that they have doing that is involved in everything. The only time you sign your real name is in something you really mean in reality like a love letter to your wife or your girl friend. Never sign any of these documents with your script signaturealways print. Thats the debtors name, not yours. If you sign your name on a document that has the printed name on it then youre representing that fictional phony name thats in all-capital letter printing and they can hold you liable as the representative. Anyway, do you understand what I said about the signature? Your signature is your credit. When you put your signature on any line, on any document of any kind whatsoever, it can be monetized and used as credit and its your credit. Its your value, your worth, based on your properties that you have that create the value of credit that you have and they will deposit it and monetize it and once its deposited it can be re-deposited and re-deposited and re-deposited up to seventeen times I think the law used to say. Now, whether its still that big or not, I dont know. But up to seventeen times it can be re-monetized.

[caller] Howard, I received a census letter in the mail and I want to know how do I actually address that. I held it up to a light. I noticed that they said that they were going to be sending it in a form within the next week so I want to know how do I go about sending that back or? [Howard] Somebodys already called me about these census papersseveral people and it seems that there are several different ones that are being sent around. On any of them it is my thought that what I will do is I will look on this form and find the line that says, how many people live in this house, and I will mark two because two live in this house, my wife and I and I will put it back in the mail and send it back to themthats all I will tell them. Thats all the census is aboutthe count. It is not their damned business how much money I make but thats on some of the questionnaires. Its not their business how many toilets I have in my house, how many bathrooms or whatever you want to call them. Its not their business how much I paid for the house or any other of the questions that they have on therethats privacy. On the ones that have all those questions what I have told people I would do is I would just strike a line from the bottom of the page, diagonally, up across that paragraph of questions to the top and then out in the column I will write, violation of privacy, with a little arrow that points to that line which covers everything on the page. Ive done this at least six times. I think weve had about six of these census papers sent to us in life, in my lifetime that I got and each time thats exactly what Ive done. When my wife and I had one daughter and she was home, we were raising her, we wrote three down. When my daughter grew up, didnt live here anymore, got married, we wrote two. Thats all theyre entitled to know because the whole purpose of the census by law is to get the count of people in order to determine how many representatives were entitled to in the House of Representatives in Congress. Thats the only purpose of the census. There is no purpose to interfere with your privacy and get answers to all those questions that they ask on there. So I have just drawn that diagonal line, written a little handwritten note that said, violation of privacy, with a line going over with an arrow on it to that long line and refused to answer any of those questions. Well, theyve come around and told me I got to answer the questions and I said, no, I dont; its a violation of privacy and if you force me I will sue you for violating my privacy, and they leftnever heard from them again. All theyre entitled to is an answer to the address that they sent it to, how many people live at that address, one person, two people, five people, whatever your count is thats all theyre entitled to and thats all I would give them. Now, Im not telling you what to do because Im not a lawyer and I dont give advice. Im just telling you what I would do. You may do the same thing I would do if you wish or you may fill it in if you wishits up to you. [caller] Ill do the same thing.

[Dave] I do not wish to commit mail fraud by opening the envelope because its not sent to where I live. I live in Delaware spelled fully out in all lower case with no numbers. They never send anything to me in Delaware. They only send it to some fictitious place called capital D, capital E with zip code zone numbers and I dont live in a fictitious federal zone whether its two capital letters or numbered zones. So, rather than commit mail fraud I send it back.

[caller]

I like that one.

[Howard] Dave, some of this stuff is being hand delivered. As a matter of fact, a lot of its being hand delivered. [Dave] Its got a return address on what they deliver, dont they? Back it goes.

[Howard] Yeah, I think it doesyes. But like I said, if they hand deliver it they come to the house, knock on the door and want you to fill it out. You fill out those two and you write, violation of privacy for the rest, give it back to them, and tell them to go on their way. Theyre not entitled to any of that private information and they arent. [Dave] [Howard] You mean theyre waiting there while you fill it in? Yeah, in some places thats what theyve been doing. In other places

[Dave] I tell them my time is $5000 an hour and I put my hand out. How much are you going to pay me for my time? And they look all bewildered and I say, well, get off my propertygood bye. [Howard] [Dave] Right. I agree with that too. Good point. No tickee, no washee.

[Howard] My time is valuable. You going to take up my time to fill some government papers inpay me. [Dave] Well, I dont vote so I dont give a flickering damn about how many representatives in their corporation. I dont vote in it anyway. [Owen]You may also care to note that the census in todays law is only for residents. [Howard] Thats rightwhich is agents. Now, if we start properly notifying the Secretary of States office that we have relinquish the agency even the census would no longer apply to us and they couldnt force us in any way to answer the census. [Dave] By filling it in youre admitting that you are one of those residents.

[Howard] Exactlyyou would be. Well, you are one until we properly relinquish the agency and people dont realize that. We dont have any Americans left in America. Everybodys a resident of one of these governments because they presume you to be a resident just because you live near this government business. Its a presumption. As a matter of fact its based on the 14th Amendment. The 14th Amendment opening paragraph says its a presumption, All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and of the state in which they reside. Theres your

residency status. And the presumption is that if we live in the area known as Delaware then were residents of the State of Delaware. Thats a presumption, thats not a fact, but they rely on that presumption until we rebut the presumption with evidence. Well, the only evidence we could have would be an affidavit stating, and being sent to the Secretary of State so its on record, that we have relinquished that agency. But Im telling you that just doing that is not going to be enough. You better be able to explain all the reasons why. And as I get all these detailsIve seen some of this stuff before and theres more there than what Ive seen so were researching it. But in the Statutes of Congress at Large which is a series of books that you can find in the law libraries and its the laws that Congress has passednot the Code now. The Code is a re-write of those statutes as they were passed. The statutes are all listed in these books called the Statutes of Congress at Large. In 1871 there were three or four different books in that year that covered the statutes and in one of those books is the creation of a corporation called the United States which took over the original corporation called the United States of America. So it was a takeover of this government. It was done by the lawyers that got into Congress. And the stupid fools that have been in Congress ever since do not know that theyre not actually in the United States of America. They dont know anything about this. The judges dont know anything about this. Youre going to have to show them copies of the page where they created this new corporation called the United States and that it replaced the United States of America and that its a takeover of this government and that the international law does not require you to accept the takeover government. So, youre relinquishing any presumption of agency to this takeover government. And then if you cant explain all that and show it by details Im sure theyre not going to pay any attention to you. Thats why Im trying to put all this together in such a way that you will have the information and be able to study it and present it to a judge or a cop out on the street or any government agent that bothers you that youre not one of their agents. Youre not a fellow agent and you dont come under their rules. Youre a free persona private person. [caller] [Howard] A question. Yeah, go ahead.

[caller] Its about Article 4, Section 2 of the federal Constitution which explains the status of the state citizen. You mentioned a 14 Amendment citizen. I challenged the jurisdiction and can show that I am not a 14th Amendment citizen and that Im a citizen in the original sense. I mean Im not both. Well, the 14th amendment citizen is actually a dual citizen in itself. It has state citizen and the United States citizen but the citizen in Article 4, Section 2 is the citizen of the several states. So, if you can show yourself to be that citizen and challenge jurisdiction we have the liberty that those citizens originally get. [Howard] Unfortunately, I think youre falling right into the same trap that they set up th in the 14 Amendment by stating that youre a citizen of the State because the State is the government. You dont live in the State because you live inI think I know who you are and youre up in Minnesotaright? [caller] Right.

[Howard] Ok. Minnesotas a place. The State of Minnesota is the government. You live in the place called Minnesota. Youre not a citizen of the government. Youre not a member, an operating participating member of government working for the government thats who are citizens of the State. The people that are in the government and you dont want to admit that youre a part of the State because if you do then you fall right into the category of the 14th Amendment and a resident of the State and a citizen of the United States. [caller] May I make a comment then? Someone gave me a brief from the Supreme Court 1875 Cruickshank. Maybe youre familiar with that? [Howard] Vaguely.

[caller] In three pages the Supreme Court explains what the word, State, means and in what context. It doesnt contradict what you said, its just very subtle and difficult. [Howard] Yeah, it is. Maybe I can find some wordingI looked at that case years ago. Thats why I said, vaguely familiar with it. What was it again? [caller] [Howard] Cruickshank1875. And who was it versus?

[caller] I think its the United States. Its in my briefcase. Ill go find it and Ill come back then Ill know exactly what it is. [Dave] [Howard] [caller] Make a copy and mail it to Howard. That Supreme Court case, I could pull it right up on the internet. Ill just go get it and then you guys can continue.

[caller] Harold, is that early of a Supreme Court case law, I guess, as we call it. I dont know if it was signified as a versus somebody else. They had a different designation early-on, did they not? [Howard] Only cases like in re somebody or something like that.

[caller] Ok, Ive seen some others, very unknown. I didnt know how to look them up when they got to be that early because theres no versus. Its almost like a designation from England.

[Howard] Well, even so it wasgeez, I cant think of one of the cases. Dave, help me remember, the one in New York where they said that the people of New York were not the State of New York. [Owen]In re Merriam, estate. [Howard] There was no versus. In re meant against the estate of Merriam.

[Dave] And because the people are not a party to the Constitution they cannot raise it in their cases which is why bother talking about all this Congress passed crap. None of it applies to live natural people. [Howard] Thats the point and the only way you can raise the Constitution is to raise the fact that they did not abide by their constitutional limitations and that became a taking of my private property by imposing these regulations that they created. You dont have constitutional rights. Only the government has constitutional rights. Youre part of the citizenry according to the explanation that was given by Madison in his dissertation from the constitutional convention notes in a book called The Federalist Papers and he explained that the people are the citizenry but theyre not citizens, that the citizen is the member of government. The people in government are citizens. And if you look in Blacks Law Dictionary it tells you that in the definition of a citizen. It says the citizen is a member of the political community Well, you have to be a member of the political community, a part of government, in order to be a citizen. This is what theyre trying to force everybody to be, residents and citizens within their government so that everybody comes under the government rules and regulations and that they can collect taxes from you, impose regulations on your property, control your property, make you register the property with them so that they can use the monetary value of your property. This is all corruption of the intent of the original Constitution and the original government that was set up in the country. Its been corrupted terribly. Ive said many times I am not adverse to this government. I dont want it destroyed. I just want the corruption stopped. [caller] Howard, in Blacks there is no citizenry. Theres citizens but no citizenry.

[Howard] No, its not defined in Blacksnope. The only time it was ever mentioned was in The Federalist Papers by Madison in that explanation that the citizenry was the republican form of government. [caller] [Howard] [Howard] Do you know what one that was? Yeah, Madison Paper Number 39. Oh, good, thank you.

[Howard] Ill read it to you if I can find it real quick. I keep this right handywe keep referring to this. Madison, paper number 39 of the Federalist Papers, the paragraph thats important in that is he says, the difference between the federal and the national

government as it relates to the operation of the government is by the adversaries of the plan of the convention supposed to consist in this. And thats all leading into it. The important part is that in the former, the former, of course, being the federal, the powers operate on the political bodies composing the confederacy in their political capacitiesthat means the states. In the latter the national government was the latter, on the individual citizenry composing the nation in their individual capacities,in other words, the private people the national government applies to the private people and the federal government applies to the governments of the United States and of the states, is what hes saying, and only to those citizens of those governments does it apply. The national citizenry was not to be bothered by the governmentit was separate and distinct, because the national government doesnt really exist. Did you ever see any books called the Code of National Laws? There arent anythey dont make national laws. They make federal laws, they make state laws, thats part of the confederacy of the states. The states are confederated together with a parent corporation called the United States. They work together. They have the power to make laws, rules and regulations, regulating their own conduct. They have no power to make laws, rules or regulations imposing anything upon the individual in his individual capacity yet we dont live that way today, do we? [caller] Howard, on that Section 2 he was referring to, just a few minutes ago. Ill read that once. Listen to it. It talks about two different types of citizens in that section. It says, the citizens of each state, so thats one type of citizen, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states. So you got two different types of citizens there, the way I look at it. [Howard] Still, theyre the citizens of the State and the State is the government. And the government can only make these rules and privileges and benefits and hand them out to the people that are in the government not to the rest of the people. The private people are private people. Theyre not citizens, theyre not the citizens of the State or the citizens of the United States. Way back when I first got involved in this so called tax protest movement or whatever the hell youpatriot movement When I first got involved this was back in 1979 when somebody invited me to a meeting and I sat there and listened to them and they were talking about taxes, taxes, taxeseverything was taxes. There was a tax protest movement. I really didnt agree with them. I listened but I didnt agree with them and I questioned them about something. I said, youre complaining about filing these taxes and youre complaining about this 1040 form and the top of the 1040 form says that this form is a US Individual Return of Income. Can you explain those words to me? What in the hell is a US Individual? And how could I possibly return income to the US if I didnt get it from the US. Suppose I got it working for you, whoever you are. You paid me to put new storm windows on your house. And way back in my early years in the construction business thats what I started out doing putting storm windows and storm doors on and then putting roofs on the next thing you know Im building houses and the next thing you know Im building office buildings and big buildings, shopping centers, and I grew into a fairly big business. But I started out just selling storm windows and putting them on peoples houses. As a kid, seventeen years old with my own little business, and I said, I got the money from my customers. I didnt get the money from the US. The US is the government. How could I return any income to the US that I got from the US if I didnt get

it from the US? And what is a US Individual? What does that mean? And nobody could clarify that for me. Finally, in getting into some of the cases the civil rights cases of 1883 covered a lot of this and that was what I studied and I looked at the Cruickshank case. I dont recall there being anything that stood out to me at that time but then again, what little I knew at that time and what I know today from all these studies Im sure therell be something today that would stand out that didnt stand out back then because I wouldnt have recognized it back then. But what I did recognize was those civil rights cases of 1883 talked about citizenship because that was a big thing. The 14th Amendment created a citizenship that never existed before and thats what those cases explained that the government had extended the privilege of citizenship to a certain class of people that hadnt had citizenship before because the only citizens that existed before were the citizens of the state government and the citizens of the federal government. That was how I began to understand the difference between the citizenships that you dont want to claim to be a citizen of the state unless youre actually an operating member of the state government. You dont want to claim to be a US citizen unless youre an operating member of the US government neither of which fit me. So, the question was, what am I? And the fact is, what I am I finally found out is a private citizen or a private person as opposed to a state citizen or a US citizen. If theyre going to classify us all as some type of citizen what type of citizen would I be? Well, Id be a private citizen. A private citizen is outside of their jurisdictional authority to control. A state citizen is within their authority to control. A federal or US citizen is within their authority to control. Theyre presuming under the 14th Amendment that we are all residents and citizens of the State. And this is what Im telling you, we have to relinquish this residency and abandon any dealings or business with the government in order to be free people if you wish to be free. But if you wish to be free you got to realize that you cant go back to the government and ask for any of their benefits. [caller] That means that if you are a disabled person and youre someone who receives SSI, does that mean that you should just relinquish the SSI and Everything that you buy is obviously taxed so you just take it into court and you say, well, this is obvious proof that or a cause of action that there is theft, that property rights were violated and that youre a private citizen and that theres no means for a tax so therefore the pre-litigant reliefI guess Im not saying this rightIm not [Howard] Youre confusing me completely. Let me give you an explanation and itll save you from all this. The government made themselves a serious mistake in creating these social security and social assistance programs like Medicare and disability insurance and all that kind of stuff. We made a mistake of joining up and signing up for it in the first place. We were not supposed to do this. There is no law requiring us to do this. The law applied to citizens of the federal government employees and citizen employees of the state governments and the political subdivisions of the states like city, county and town governments and thats all it applied to. It legislatively did not apply to the private people and couldnt apply to the private people. The lawyers duped us into this. The lawyers told employers of businesses that they had to get social security numbers from the people who wanted to work for the business so the employers made us go out and get a social security number and we made a mistake of agreeing and going out and getting the thing. But the big mistake that government made was that they knew we werent required, that they couldnt

even make us participate in this function, this activity. Even if they did get us to participate in it they had no right to have us participating in it and they gave us the right in Title 22 of the United States Code to revoke any relationship with the IRS and Social Security if we wanted to. But in that same act, in Title 22, they stated emphatically that they cannot deny you the benefits once you became eligible for the benefits and the way you became eligible was to sign up and participate in the first place. So, if youre receiving SSI, Social Security Disability Benefits or youre on Social Security receiving the regular Social Security payments they cannot take those payments away from you even if you relinquish your agency and terminate your relationship with Social Security. It only terminates your liability to pay them anything but their liability to pay you still existsthey cant get out of it. They really put themselves in a bad position, didnt they? [caller] Why are they liable?

[Howard] Because they made a contract and they have to stand by the contract and they know darned well if they didnt stand by the contract there would be tremendous violence in the country. Now, I see that day coming anyway. I see Social Security running out of money and people not getting their checks and I can see elderly people with a walker, disabled people with a walker, heading down the road, walking with their walker toward the Social Security building with a one-gallon can of gasoline under the fingers on one side of the walker and a flap of matches under the finger on the other side of the walker saying, Ill burn those bastards, they owe me that money. I can see that day coming. common sense to realize that if these people dont get the money that they think theyre entitled to they will become violent and government knows that. [caller] You said Title 22 of what section?

[Howard] United States CodeI dont have the section number in front of me, but its a little section in Title 22 called Social Security. They cannot get out of their duty to pay you the benefits but you can get out of your duty to be liable to them by terminating your registration of social security. That terminates your liability including the liability to pay income taxes because the income tax is based on you becoming a participating member in the social security system. [Ed] They bank on the fact that youre ignorant of the way that they capitalize on your social security number. [Howard] Every bit of what were talking about they bank on the ignorance of the people and education manages to maintain the ignorance. [Ed] Thats why they fund the schools.

[Howard] The only way youre going to find this stuff out is do what Ive done. Ive spent thirty years of my life reading their law books, searching and studying these different things and trying to find out their purpose and intent and thats beyond just reading the code book. You have to go into the legislative enactments like the Statues of Congress at

Large and look that up and find out what the legislative purpose of these statues is. It was a lot of work. [caller] Legislative statute of enactment?

[Howard] Yeah, the enactment that was done. It can be found in the books called The Statutes of Congress at Large and every state has a similar set of books. The original legislative enactment is put into a set of books and they keep track of everything that they did. Every state has a book. What they call it in the different states I dont have a name on it but I have the Maryland enactments up to some date, some time in the forties, I believe it is. [caller] Is that because every state has a different constitution?

[Howard] Not only that every state does thing in a little bit different way and they name things by different names. [caller] So are you saying every state being a fictitious government is of its own, its fake. Every state by state is really fake and theres no [Howard] Well, the reason why its fake is because theyre corporations and a corporation is fake, its not real. The purpose of a corporation is to set something up thats not real to do business through so the liability doesnt pass through this phony thing and come to the real person. Thats whole purpose of corporations and governments are all corporations so theyre all faketheyre pretend. But they have authority as long as somebody will pay attention to the authority. Suppose I got together my Mafia crowd all the way across this country if I contact every one of them and pull them all together I would have one hell of a large group of people. Some of them are quite mean and some of them just absolutely enjoy killing people and suppose I just amassed all of them and I started going into these legislative halls and taking over the state and then came on the television and told you that I am in charge with everything and the state governments been done away with and you will do what I tell you, do you really think you have to listen to me? I would bet you that if I were to doand I could do something like this because Im gutsy enough and powerful enough and I got enough influence to be powerful enough to do itif I did something like this I bet you 85% of the American people would fall in line and do whatever I told them. If I told them that they had to stop going to church and were going to do away with all churches and in place of the churches were going to have pornographic movies and you got to go every Sunday and listen to a pornographic, you know what, these silly people would go to the pornographic movie on Sunday, they would listen, they would do what I told them. The point Im trying to make is that people are so easily led. They will do whatever theyre told to do but, just think about it, would you really listen to me if I told you that Ive taken over and Im the authority now and you got to do what I say? If you wouldnt, if you say to yourself, No, I wouldnt listen to Howard, Howard doesnt have any authority, well, why in the hell do you listen to the State? It doesnt have any authority either. All it is, is a bunch of hoodlums like me that took over the power and authority and told you, you got to do it.

[Dave]

Obama says hes going to terminate the Constitution.

[Howard] Actually, thats what ought to be done. Thats the only thing thats going to resolve this is to terminate the Constitution, terminate the entire governments existence and the people dont have the guts to do it. And you know why they dont? Because they think they need the benefits. They think, oh, we have to have education. Our kids have to have an education. The government creates the education. It provides the schools. We got to have that for our kids. It would be terrible if we didnt have education. [caller] [Dave] How would you have any rights without a ConstitutionI dont understand. Your rights came from God; they did not come from Obama and company.

[Howard] The Constitution did not give people any rights at all. It established the rights of government. Thats all it established. It did not give you any rights. Any right that you had comes from property. Your body is your property. There are certain rights in your body. If you acquire other types of property with the efforts of your body such as land or chattels like automobiles and guns and puppy dogs this is your property, it has rights associated with that property and they are your rights. You have property rights. You do not have Constitutional rights. Only the government has Constitutional rights. The government was created by the Constitution and the rights that are in it apply only to the government that it created. Look up Barron v. the Mayor and City Council of Baltimore. Its a Supreme Court case back in 1833, I believe it was. His name was John Barron. John Barron owned a piece of waterfront property. The city of Baltimore did some excavating work moving dirt around and the rains came and washed the loose dirt that they had disturbed down into the waterfront and it flooded into the area where his pier was and built the bottom of the river up so high that he couldnt get ships into his pier anymore. They were running aground so he sued the City of Baltimore and the mayor and city council who had authorized this city work project to be done that caused the problem and it went all the way up to the US Supreme Court and the US Supreme Court ruled that the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution to the taking of property applied only to the Constitution that created the government and to no one else. The Constitution did not apply to anybody else or anything else. It didnt apply to the states, it didnt apply to the people. It only applied to the government that it created. Now, that was in 1833. In 1868 Congress managed to push this 14th Amendment through and the 14th Amendment applied the Bill of Rights of the federal Constitution to the states through the 14th Amendment by adding the paragraph in the 14th Amendment that says that no state shall interfere with the life, liberty or property of the citizens. [caller] [Howard] [caller] So why is it that companies can discriminate and force you to have an ID? They cant but they do. They do because you let them. Well, how do you stop them?

[Howard] Dont do business and you campaign around your neighborhood to stop everybody from doing business because this store wants a government ID and more and more people will say, hey, I think hes rightI wont buy there anymore, and that store will go out of business and theyll cry to the government. The government will say, ok, were sorry, we should have made everybody have a state ID, and eventually something like that would go away. The people can control, they just dontthey wusses, theyre little wusses. They dont do anythingcry, thats all they do. [caller] Howard, how about a referendum?

[Howard] Sure, thatll work. I want to create a coalition in every state to do a referendum vote to abolish the state government. If you abolish all fifty state governments the United States government becomes nothing. The United States government was authorized to exist by the state governments. If you do away with the state governments theres no authorization for the United States to exist so they all go away. And I think that we could replace every one of the states with an independent nation and its own independent nation government just like Europe. Europe is a group of independent nations. Why are we combined together as we are in a confederation under a parent corporation? We dont have to be. I dont think it was a bad idea. I think the purpose of the whole thing in the very beginning was excellent but the purpose has been set aside and its not being followed. [caller] everybody could have had equal rights and values

[Howard] We do have equal rights. What we have is unequal laziness. Im not quite as lazy as a lot of the other people so I work harder so Ive accomplished more. And under this form of governmentthat was the concept of itto allow the people to be successful, to acquire property. The whole purpose of government according to Fulton Light, Power and Heat Company v. New York which is a New York Court of Appeals casethats their highest level of courtand they defined what property meant and what they said was that the purpose of government was to guarantee the right of property to people, the right to acquire it, and to protect those property rights. Thats the whole purpose of government. Its certainly not doing it, is it? [Ed] You got corruption, Howard.

[Howard] Yes. And its not the government thats wrong. Its the corruption within government. Its the ignorance of the people and the greed of the people that are in government. Leave the little guy alone and youll find out that 50% of them will be very successful. Twenty-five percent will be moderately successful and the other Twenty-five percent are a bunch of lazy bastards and theyll never accomplish anything. [caller] [Howard] Always been like that. And it always will be like that.

[caller] Right. The poor will always be with us. Well, you cant change that because of the laziness factor. Some people just dont have initiative. They wont get off their butt and go do anything. Theyre going to be poor all their live because theyre going to be lazy. [Ed] Thats why the Bible says youll have the poor with you always, Howard.

[Howard] Thats right. And I feel sorry for somebody who becomes disabled and ends up poor because they cant do what they used to do. They got hurt seriously and theyre unable to perform. I think we should help somebody like that. I think privately we should help them. Not through some organization called social security with government controlling it and using up most of the funds for themselves and just a little bit for that person. I dont agree with that concept. Churches used to do this. The churches would accumulate money from successful people that would donate and give it to people that were injured and hurt. But give it to the lazy bastard that doesnt want to do anything, no, I dont agree with that at all. Leave the lazy bastard alone. Let him suffer for his own laziness. [caller] What about someone who wants to be able to do everything they want in life but everything they do gets ripped and torn apart by people that are abusing the government. [Howard] Well, what about that? This is where I agree with the guy up in Wisconsin who wants to start a business growing hemp and manufacturing rope from the hemp. Hang these people that get in the way. [caller] [Ed] Howard? Yeah, I agree with you there. The system is set up to be fair. Its the corruption thats running itright,

[Howard] Exactly what it is, its the corruption. The greed of certain people to want everything that the rest of us have. They want to take it from us and use it for their benefit. [Dave] It sounds like lawyers.

[Howard] It is lawyers. Government has a great purpose. If it would stay within its limited purposes there wouldnt be these calls, there wouldnt be these groups of people getting together called tax protestors and patriot organizations and tea parties that developed recently, there wouldnt be these groups. 02:52:23.328 . . . {03:08:10.284} [Owen]Taking any questions on the financing statements? [Howard] We started out with a few comments about it earlier, but, yeah, go ahead.

[Owen]On the tender of payments discharge the extent, having right of recoursea few weeks ago you said that theres some places we were sending our partial assignments to be processed. I have correspondence with some government officials who claim they dont understand [Howard] Of course they dont understand. They went to the same school you went to.

[Owen]Is there that can help expedite this process so they can get their discharge? [Howard] Yeah, theres a process. Its through the courts its called execution of a debt. They owe you just compensation. Thats what this assignment is all about. You send a bill to them for just compensation to be paid because theyve imposed an expense upon you in your private capacity for the benefit of government. Thats the taking of private property for public use without just compensation. Hospital bills and this drug business that the government runs is the imposition of a debt upon you and a cost in your life that isnt necessary. Its for the benefit of government so they have to give you just compensation. Property tax on your land is for the benefit of government. Its the taking of your private property without just compensation. They owe you the compensation. The assignment is sending them the bill for the just compensation. When they dont pay it then you send them a notice that they didnt honor the debt and pay it. Then you send them a notice that theyre in default because they didnt honor the debt and in that notice of default you tell them that its going to cost them three times the amount for their corruption of not paying the debt plus, if you want you can also impose a punitive damage on them in addition to the three times the amount thats allowed by law and tell them that theyre going to be charged for this if they dont credit the account with the assignment and reimburse you your just compensation that youre entitled to. If they still dont pay any attention to this one, thats the second notice, the third notice is a bill for the amount that you told them that theyre going to have to pay because they didnt honor the assignment and provide the just compensation. You send that bill three times in a row, three months, three times each month, for three months. Thats what the law requires. After that the bill can be considered to be refused to be paid, remaining unpaid and you can move for a judgment against them for the collection of that debt for whatever that amount is. Now, lets just say were talking about a property tax bill for $1000 a year and you send them the assignment for $1000 and they dont pay attention to it. So, you send them this notice that they failed to do what theyre supposed to do and didnt credit the account and they ignore you and still dont credit the account. So, you send them the second notice and you say, if you dont credit the account with the $1000 just compensation as youre supposed to do then its going to cost you three times the amount or $3000 plus a punitive damage of $10,000. Now, you got a bill against them for $13,000. All this is over $1000. See how they do things? Were doing it the same way they do. Its all phony but its all part of their lawits legaland it can all be found in their law books. Now, what you do is you go to court and you file a complaint for the collection of the debt of $13,000 plus interest from the time it was originally due at an amount of 18%. So you figure that up mathematically, 18% per month each month for all the months that they havent paid this and it amounts to another $2,480. So now you got $15,480 on your complaint and they have to answer the complaint. And

they have to say why they didnt pay it, why they dont owe it and they cant say why they dont owe it because its all accumulated from the just compensation they were supposed to pay in the first place and they cant prove that they didnt owe the just compensation because its part of their own laws. So you should get judgment against them for $15,480 plus continuing interest until the day its paid. I dont think theyll bother you anymore about the $1,000 property tax bill if you do this but if you dont do this and people dont do this. This is why the American people are wusses. They wont get off their ass and do anything. They dont follow through with these kinds of things. They wont go read the local rules of court of how to file that complaint. They do nothing so its their own fault. [Owen]They have a witness to corroborate my story in court, my witness, let us say hypothetically, that would be whoever sends me the tax bill. And say, I send them this notice and he sent me a letter and he signed it that doesnt understand or recognize it then I was told by someone I can subpoena this man as my witness. [Howard] Yes, you can.

[Owen]So I dont want to put the burden of proof on me in court since I dont know how to handle myself thereI put it on him. Hes my witness. Now, I dont have to know what to do to him to make all this other stuff work. [Howard] The burden of proof would be upon him to prove that he didnt have to pay the just compensation and thats the key to the whole thing, the just compensation. They cannot take your private property for their public use and benefit without paying just compensation. Did you pay me the compensation? Answer is no. Then you owe me judgment in my favor, Judge. [caller] [Howard] [caller] [caller] for. [caller] And you said go to the place and look up the local rules of what? The local rules of court for filing a complaint for a collection of a debt. What about if its not a debt though and its an action that needs? Thats what an action is for to collect a debt, thats all the courts are there Really, its just only money thats it?

[Howard] Havent you figured that out yet? Everything is about money. You just explained about what the doctors do. They get all the money up front and then they treat you with drugs and drug you up so bad youre too stupid to come back and know that youre any better. You complain that youre sick of this. [Dave] They just want to treat the symptoms. They do not want to cure you. If they cure you they would not make any money.

[caller] Im talking about the doctors that are bad that they want to hurt you, they want to make your symptoms terrible [Howard] No, no, you got it wrong, son, they dont want to, theyre too stupid to know that theyre doing it. I took a lady here in the neighborhood near me off of thirteen drugs. I took her off of them and I screamed at the OR doctor that thats what the problem is. Thats why shes in the shape shes in. This idiot doctor shes been going to put her on thirteen different drugs and this doctor at the OR just stood there staring at me like who the hell are you to tell me, Im the doctor. And eventually, he did say that. He said, Im the doctorIll decide what to do. And I said, well, Ive already decided, shes not taking any of these drugs anymore. This is whats put her in this shape. If you look at the side effects of the first drug they gave you, the side effects caused these other problems and you go back to the doctor crying that Im now getting chest pains, or now, I have diarrhea problems all the time which I never had before. And you dont know why. You dont know the side effects because you never looked them up. The doctor never looked them up either. Hes too stupidhe just believes what the drug company told him that this is the drug you use for some ailment